NationStates Jolt Archive

Well its a blackboard setup on cinderblock to look like a classroom but this is only the entrance page. The separate sites are going to look completely different...

Its cool though, aside from my personal point of view It looks great.

I will probably be keeping the bricks.

meh

Hey man, you need to call me or something. I finally got 2142 working, figured out the whole problem with it and fixed it.
w00t w00t for duel back to back promotions, thnx to all those that died(100-150) for me :p Orbital Strikes rule.

Hey guys remember then I said that Saddam is going to be a martyr? Well what do you know turns out I was right, they had a rally in Jordan and are going to build him a statue in Lebanon to commemorate his heroic sacrifice plus I'm about to start reading a Time magazine article tittled "Saddam's Second Life: Feared and loather as a leader, the tyrant has become a martyr in death".

The awards ceremony will be good, but I think we should remove the Worst RPer award. Its kind of an asshole thing to give.

The awards ceremony will be good, but I think we should remove the Worst RPer award. Its kind of an asshole thing to give.

Yeah you're probably right...

Hey guys remember then I said that Saddam is going to be a martyr? Well what do you know turns out I was right, they had a rally in Jordan and are going to build him a statue in Lebanon to commemorate his heroic sacrifice plus I'm about to start reading a Time magazine article tittled "Saddam's Second Life: Feared and loather as a leader, the tyrant has become a martyr in death".

Amongst Ba'athists sure he is...

The awards ceremony will be good, but I think we should remove the Worst RPer award. Its kind of an asshole thing to give.

That's a very good point.

All that thing did was cause fights.

I thought it was funny ;). I won't include it and it'll be offsite.

I thought it was funny ;). I won't include it and it'll be offsite.

It would have been funny, but people took it personally.

Eh? What? Why are this non-EII people talking? They can't talk, its a myth.

Eh? What? Why are this non-EII people talking? They can't talk, its a myth.

Puppets good sir. Khor is in E2 as a different name.

E2 AWARDS

http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Nation-States/Forms/e2awards.htm

The awards will expire on the 19th of January at 00:00 hrs GMT. Please vote...It's anonymous and I only ask your name for verification purposes. Like last time the vote data will be displayed with the results but the information will be anon.

Please vote :)

I was thinking, theres a white space in Antarctica and I was wondering if I could stake a scientific claim to the land, not a military one. Simply put, there will be soviet scientist over there and the land will remain open so that other nations could send researchers and scientists to that territory as well.

I don'know if I worded that right so if theres any confusion on what i said please tell me.

I was thinking, theres a white space in Antarctica and I was wondering if I could stake a scientific claim to the land, not a military one. Simply put, there will be soviet scientist over there and the land will remain open so that other nations could send researchers and scientists to that territory as well.

I don'know if I worded that right so if theres any confusion on what i said please tell me.

For the time being, Antarctica is not claimable until we can get a different, more accurate map of it.

I like it, but in a way it seems a little bright. No offense at all but it seems like a childish look to it (Its the combination of the bright colors). But it does look nice and hey I can't do anything like that.

I agree- I like it Lay, but it doesn't seem to be "your style". Unless, you intend the page to be "educational"- but that should be clarified in the image (even with, say, a small image in a corner of the blackboard for something like "the Layarteb College").

E2 AWARDS

http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Nation-States/Forms/e2awards.htm

The awards will expire on the 19th of January at 00:00 hrs GMT. Please vote...It's anonymous and I only ask your name for verification purposes. Like last time the vote data will be displayed with the results but the information will be anon.

Please vote :)

Awww....I was hoping for a "WTF Award". I wanted it... :(

Kreynoria, check your TG's.

TOA Members, please check this out in the forums:
http://theforsakenoutlaw.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=6579#6579

Oh yes Against All Enemies is heating up as well as Ascension. When those conclude, RTL will resume.

I was thinking of getting in on War on Drugs. My idea was that a drug cartel based on some "uninhabited" islands somewhere in Kreynoria would invent a new, genetically modified cocaine designed to pass as artificial sweetener. By modifying its cell structure, they have made its odor unrecognizable to sniffer dogs and the like. I have already come up with some characters for the cartel, which will be called the Black Roses.

Kreynoria;12189178']I was thinking of getting in on War on Drugs. My idea was that a drug cartel based on some "uninhabited" islands somewhere in Kreynoria would invent a new, genetically modified cocaine designed to pass as artificial sweetener. By modifying its cell structure, they have made its odor unrecognizable to sniffer dogs and the like. I have already come up with some characters for the cartel, which will be called the Black Roses.

That would add some more depth to it.

http://www.gatorzone.com/football/misc/images/natlchamp/splashpage_logo.gif

Game of the century. :p (U.S. College football for the non-North Americans out there) How many of you watched the game?

For the time being, Antarctica is not claimable until we can get a different, more accurate map of it.

What's wrong with the current map?

http://www.gatorzone.com/football/misc/images/natlchamp/splashpage_logo.gif

Game of the century. :p (U.S. College football for the non-North Americans out there) How many of you watched the game?



What's wrong with the current map?

We need something much more accurate in terms of determining land area. What'll probably happen is we'll go to a RL map and limit claims by the RL claims but we don't know yet. Mari and I haven't discussed it in some time. Perhaps we ought to, again...

We need something much more accurate in terms of determining land area. What'll probably happen is we'll go to a RL map and limit claims by the RL claims but we don't know yet. Mari and I haven't discussed it in some time. Perhaps we ought to, again...

Oh I get it. You could divide Antarctica like a pie, with each border converging on a longitude line (so all borders terminate at the pole). That's how the RL claims are distributed.

Or we could end the search for a map and just say that Antarctica is non-claimable and is purely for research territory only. I mean its not like we can have a war over it, or even place occupying troops in there.

I say vote for it, 1. Keep it divided and find a map. 2. Open it up to all nations for research purposes only. (Just trying to be helpful)

Or we could end the search for a map and just say that Antarctica is non-claimable and is purely for research territory only. I mean its not like we can have a war over it, or even place occupying troops in there.

I say vote for it, 1. Keep it divided and find a map. 2. Open it up to all nations for research purposes only. (Just trying to be helpful)

It's too late for #2 - they've already militarized the penguins:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2637/nilsolav8st.jpg <<< [the Penguin is a Colonel in the Norwegian Army...]

How did you find out about our plans to Rambo-ize Penguins...

How did you find out about our plans to Rambo-ize Penguins...

ehh, it was practically written everywhere!!!

actually DP told me about his plans, and I assumed naturally, "If he's doing it, someone else has to have done it already..." Of course, DP has left...

And to some relief, at least the Penguins can't travel over the seas to attack us [or can they?]

http://www.csun.edu/~ghsiung/mh02.jpg

oh wow, I really hope you guys are joking about the penguins...cause on here it's hard to tell when people are joking.

Anyway on a serious note, really how would that sound. Not only could it promote global unification it would also promote science world around. I dont know about you but to me it sounds like a good idea. We couldn't do this anywhere else cause it seems alot of people here are very territorial.

Yes Nero, you whom few even recognise, will create 'global unity' via a small research station on the worlds most frozen continent...that makes sense.

SL, we're teaching them to do new things...

http://www.tenan.net/public/evil-penguin.jpg
These are our Hacker Penguins, lethal with laptops!

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/201500/201538CIkh_w.jpg
Our Desert Warfare Pengiuns.

http://www.bluecrabboulevard.com/wp-admin/PhotoImage/MayJune2006/PenguinArmy%20copy.jpg
Our Urban Warfare Pengiuns.

http://www.prodigy69.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/prodigy69/pics/animashes/evilPenguin.jpeg
And finally, the Berserker Penguin!

http://www.gatorzone.com/football/misc/images/natlchamp/splashpage_logo.gif

Game of the century. :p (U.S. College football for the non-North Americans out there) How many of you watched the game?



What's wrong with the current map?

Can't believe the Bucks lost. My dad is an OSU alumi and i bet he is pissed
Yesterday i saw like 50 people with OSU shirts on...today nobody has OSU shirts on

It's too late for #2 - they've already militarized the penguins:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2637/nilsolav8st.jpg <<< [the Penguin is a Colonel in the Norwegian Army...]

Yep. It's true. Honorary Colonel in the Norwegian Army thanks to... us claiming half of Antarctica for the Kingdom of Norway (Queen Maud Land)? I dunno. But anyway, he is a Colonel.


But there has been fought wars over Antarctica. Does anyone remember that thread where NtG declared war on the penguins? Most hillarious RP EVER!

Yes Nero, you whom few even recognise, will create 'global unity' via a small research station on the worlds most frozen continent...that makes sense.

Well technically its an OOC suggestion, my nation has nothing really to do with it. So next time you have a thought, just let it go.

All I care about IC wise is gaining allies in the Russian Territories. I could give a shit less about the rest of the world.

Good, because the rest of the world (and even most in the Russian territories besides Pantheaa) couldn't give a...but you know the rest...so...meh, you ain't worth it.

Good, because the rest of the world (and even most in the Russian territories besides Pantheaa) couldn't give a...but you know the rest...so...meh, you ain't worth it.

I bet I'm not, so off that subject and on to another?

http://www.gatorzone.com/football/misc/images/natlchamp/splashpage_logo.gif

Game of the century. :p (U.S. College football for the non-North Americans out there) How many of you watched the game?



I would have to vote for the Texas USC match last year with Vince Young winning it for Texas with less than two minutes to go. It was a true nail-biter until the end. There is a reason why Vince is the Rookie of the Year in the NFL. Damn I wish he would have stayed for his Senior Year.

-Hawdawg

I don't know if anyone here saw this but check it out.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16442767/

Good, because the rest of the world (and even most in the Russian territories besides Pantheaa) couldn't give a...but you know the rest...so...meh, you ain't worth it.

Hirgy were you born an asshole or is it a learned behavior? Just wondering as a 3rd party observer in this case.

I would have to vote for the Texas USC match last year with Vince Young winning it for Texas with less than two minutes to go. It was a true nail-biter until the end. There is a reason why Vince is the Rookie of the Year in the NFL. Damn I wish he would have stayed for his Senior Year.

-Hawdawg

I know, that was a better game in terms of excitement (although I missed it :( ), but I'm a Gators fan so I have to pick this year's game by default. :D

I still think we need a playoff- how about Boise State? They at least deserve a shot at Florida now.

Panthean news agency…

Rumor has it that the King is going to reneg his Slovakian title and accept the title of Grand Duke of Pantheaa...if this is true then Pantheaa has truly become more Rus then Slovakian. As the title was once used by Rus princes before Ivan the Terrible declared himself Tsar. The 25 year old king however thought that it wouldn’t be wise calling himself Tsar..as that may send a “bad message to the rest of Russia”. Sources inside the royal house stated that the king may do this tomorrow during the feast of St Basil.

The Panthean prime Minister is prepared to meet the leaders of the Soviet Republic. The two nations will discuss, terrorism, military alliance, free trade, and technology and intell sharing between the two nations.

Tomorrow is the Feast of St Basil..it is the celebrated as the day that the Pantheaa kingdom was founded. St Basil was a Panthean king from 1205-1223. He is the patron saint of Pantheaa. His devotion to Catholicism helped spread the religion throughout the region. He was killed while the fighting the Mongols at the battle of Kalka river in 1223..along with the other Rus princes. The Panthean king will review a military parade through downtown with the Prime Minister, Parliament will open for the year. With Prime Minister Vladmier Davion expected to make opening remarks to the Parliament


2 fighter wings of the Panthean royal air force were sent to assist the Russian Federation in its conquest of Baker Island. Although there is rumor that the fighter wings are simply their for recon, bombing runs could start as early as today


In other news, the pantheaa cheese industry still remains unbeaten in the world cheese market. So much so that it is believed that the Panthean Kingdom as a monopoly on all the world’s cheese. The Pantheaa minister of trade plans to send all nations of the world a half pound of Panthea’s finist Sharp!!


Russian communism seems to be spreading in Pantheaa again. Some fear that the former tyrannical communist government will return with if the gospel of Marx is allowed to be preached. The PM and king how ever do not plan to restrict freedom of speech. With a possible alliance between the United Soviet Republics and Pantheaa. The communist party maybe welcomed back into Pantheaa. And with the wide spread poverty due to industrialization, some fear that the communist party will have an easy time getting elected. When reached for comment….Mikhail Kerensky spokes person of the Conservative National Union party states that “Communism failed Pantheaa years ago and thus has no hope of returning.” Inga Hersha leader of the left wing Pantheaa Labor party..had no comment regarding this story. The communist party predicts that they will win at least 17 percent of the vote in next months election which will give them a seat in Parliament. Last year they won 2% not enough to take any seats. Polls show that the National Union party are expected to retain the majority..however the Labor party has been making progress. If they win Pantheaa will have its first woman Prime Minister


In sports


The Kursk Crusaders have drafted Sergi Sarov to their pro football team….Sergi has been called the best player in all of Pantheaa Soccer. Ryazen University were national champions for all 4 years that Sergi attended. Some worry he wouldn’t be drafted due to his hot head attitude and temper tantrums during games. He is also an international sex symbol and the fantasy of many girls…

Just thought I would remark though, to Hirg. You know, if I never left EII I would infact be a lot larger then you. Thing is I lost my computer ability so therefore lost my land. Next time you feel like talking all big remember I was only a little ways away from becoming alot better then you.

Nero you do know that if your account was deleted due to inactivity you can restore it right?

I got this big purely by coincidence, by having to take Bjornoya's land. There are also bigger nations than me, population wise if thats what your getting at, UER and NG for example. Population wise I started in October 03, I dunno if you started before that. I also have no idea why your going about size...and being 'better' than me...I mean...grow up.

You want to continue this take it to the off-site forums.

Nero you do know that if your account was deleted due to inactivity you can restore it right?

No thats not what I mean, what I ment is that I went under D13 (Thats the right one right?) and therefore lost my land, infact I believe you took it.

I dont even know why we ended up arguing Hirg, all I was trying to do was suggest a policy in Antartica that would make it non-claimable or at least claimed by a nation that allowed international research to be conducted there. I may sound a little childish but Pushka has a point, your being a complete dick.

Going back to the Antarctica dealy.....there are some good ideas floating around. Any more before there is a mod-huddle?

No thats not what I mean, what I ment is that I went under D13 (Thats the right one right?) and therefore lost my land, infact I believe you took it.

No D13 at that time. If I remember correctly you're nation got deleted for inactivity by NS or something happened. The info is in the thread somewhere.

http://www.myfoxny.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=2021821&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

What kind of bullshit is this?

Please debate off-site.

Liberal bullshit. The stuff that the people on NSGeneral would shout out support for. I tried going around there a little bit, and out of curiosity, ran a poll to see who is relgious and who is atheist: there were twice as many atheists as religious people. The liberals run the show over there; us good ol' conservatives hang around II.

Kreynoria;12196357']Liberal bullshit. The stuff that the people on NSGeneral would shout out support for. I tried going around there a little bit, and out of curiosity, ran a poll to see who is relgious and who is atheist: there were twice as many atheists as religious people. The liberals run the show over there; us good ol' conservatives hang around II.

NSG is NSG. I stay away myself. Go on mIRC and go to #draftroom and you'll find some good stuff :).

I'm going to post that off-site for debate.

Kreynoria;12196357']Liberal bullshit. The stuff that the people on NSGeneral would shout out support for. I tried going around there a little bit, and out of curiosity, ran a poll to see who is relgious and who is atheist: there were twice as many atheists as religious people. The liberals run the show over there; us good ol' conservatives hang around II.

The so-called atheists are mostly antitheists and actual liberals (which I am one of) believe in liberty, which means people can do whatever they want as long as it isn't hurting anyone. People that call themselves liberals and then pull that bullshit *cough*Democrats*cough* give the rest of us a bad name.

International Trade Commission (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12196572#post12196572)

We Urge all to Take a Look!

International Trade Commission (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12196572#post12196572)

We Urge all to Take a Look!

^^^^^^^^^^ good idea.

Is Spiz ever going to come back to my RP? The kid needs to fix his godmod so we can continue.

Made a big post on War on Drugs introducing the Black Roses drug cartel and its lead characters, including sex-crazed, manic-depressive leader Dan Rosenburg, sychophantic right-hand man Kevin Manning, bodyguard Don, Mr. Rosenburg's prostitute, Katie, and research scientist Douglas Greer.

Sounds like I can't wait to read it.

I decided to write a sort of story like thing about the USR revolution but I pretty much forgot who owned the land before me. If you guys can help me out here, who owned the land before me?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12197153#post12197153

Natural Resources of Russian Federation

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12197153#post12197153

Natural Resources of Russian Federation

I need to do something like that but it's a lot of territory to go over. Push where'd you get those stats from? I have no idea how much "quantity" I have. I can probably figure out what elements I have but not quantities.

I need to do something like that but it's a lot of territory to go over. Push where'd you get those stats from? I have no idea how much "quantity" I have. I can probably figure out what elements I have but not quantities.

The CIA Factbook is a good place to look, but that only covers countries, not individual states or provinces. Wiki can help too, and I'm sure there are other places too (RussiaTrek.com is one place where I went for the Russian territories- probably also UN sites as well).

I got this big purely by coincidence, by having to take Bjornoya's land. There are also bigger nations than me, population wise if thats what your getting at, UER and NG for example. Population wise I started in October 03, I dunno if you started before that. I also have no idea why your going about size...and being 'better' than me...I mean...grow up.

You want to continue this take it to the off-site forums.

I agree with Hirg

though simply cause your bigger then someone doesn't mean your better. Does not Israel still kick major ass! I mean they beat just about every arab nation around them when they ALL invaded...that in itself is amazing. Not even the Christain crusaders 1000 years earlier were able to that.

Not to mention that Israel engaged in what is still being called the LARGEST DOG FIGHT in aerial combat ever!..And they won that as well! (I got that info from playing IDF..great flight sim)


And they won in large part cause the Arabs were using pathetic Soviet Tech..it begs the question. "did the MIGs start falling apart before or after they took off". I even heard that the T72's couldn't move and shoot and the same time. What the point is a tank that can't move and shoot! Run circles around it with a British Crusader or an M1. Anytime the Iraqis tanks advanced the American tanks just simply backpedel and shoot..Iraqis got owned

I agree with Hirg

though simply cause your bigger then someone doesn't mean your better. Does not Israel still kick major ass! I mean they beat just about every arab nation around them when they ALL invaded...that in itself is amazing. Not even the Christain crusaders 1000 years earlier were able to that.[1]

Not to mention that Israel engaged in what is still being called the LARGEST DOG FIGHT in aerial combat ever!..And they won that as well! (I got that info from playing IDF..great flight sim)


And they won in large part cause the Arabs were using pathetic Soviet Tech..it begs the question. "did the MIGs start falling apart before or after they took off". I even heard that the T72's couldn't move and shoot and the same time.[2] What the point is a tank that can't move and shoot! Run circles around it with a British Crusader or an M1. Anytime the Iraqis tanks advanced the American tanks just simply backpedel and shoot..Iraqis got owned

[1] - That's because the Christian crusaders didn't have the Merkava family of tanks(!) or understanding perfectly that if they didn't prevail, their families, friends and entire country would be royally fucked from behind (read: exterminated, nazi-style). That, combined with relatively good equipment and a lot of ingeniuety (which the Israelis have), is a pretty good motivation to win wars.

[2] - The T-72 isn't really a bad tank. It's just that it's Soviet (quantity is a quality in itself, isn't it?). There's a reason why it is still being continuously developed (T-90, etc) while the newer T-80 isn't so well thought of (or so I understand. Pushka, wanna weigh in?).

Regardless, it's not all about how good the piece of machinery is. The training and experience of the people operating it has everything to say when it comes to preformance, regardless of whether it is combat or not combat. To make it a little simpler, I'd rather take a company (100 - 300 men) of well trained infantry than a battalion (300 - 1,000 men) of poorly trained infantry. Why, you may ask. Well, simply because those well trained soldiers can use their equipment and tactics to its full potential while those poorly trained men can most likely only point the weapon in the general direction of the enemy and pull the trigger, all while either standing still or charging right at the enemy, making them easy targets. Very simplified, I know, but you get the idea.

I need to do something like that but it's a lot of territory to go over. Push where'd you get those stats from? I have no idea how much "quantity" I have. I can probably figure out what elements I have but not quantities.

I googled, for Chukotka I typed in "Chukotka, Natural Resources" and give me a link to a very good website, its a bit tougher for Evenkia and others cause there isn't one place that gives me all the info. Its actually a bit hard to do this for my lands, places like Chukotka haven't been completely explored yet in RL all the figures I got are estimates.

[2] - The T-72 isn't really a bad tank. It's just that it's Soviet (quantity is a quality in itself, isn't it?). There's a reason why it is still being continuously developed (T-90, etc) while the newer T-80 isn't so well thought of (or so I understand. Pushka, wanna weigh in?).

Well you are right somewhat, T-72 chassis is favored by the RL Russian Federation cause its cheaper to manufacture and is less complex, but the modern modifications of T-72 and T-90 are very good quality machines, even standard configuration T-90s feature very advanced protection suits like Shtora and Arena. Of course you have to keep in mind that in the Middle Eastern (which is the place there Russian tanks face off against western tanks) only the older models of T-72 from the 70s and early 80s are operational, those tanks were the absolute best at the time SU sold them to our middle eastern partners (it showed in the mid-1970s I think then Israel armed with newest western tanks suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of Egyptian T-72s and by humiliating I mean hundreds of Israely tanks destroyed at the loss of only a few T-72s) but now they are outdated, the RHA values for T-72 have tripled in the past 30 years and that is without introduction of already mentioned systems like Arena and Shtora as well a Kontakt-5 ERA. So the kind of T-72s they have in the middle east indeed were built with quality over quantity from modern stand point however the modern T-72s that are created in Russia today are build with quality in mind just like their predecessors have been built, but their predecessors are outdated compared to their modern western counterparts so they have to rely on quantity.

ah, that was Yom Kippur, that was not because of Arabian Armour, that was butchered on the few occasions it came into contact with Israeli Armoured Units, what really nailed the Israeli armoured units to the wall was the widespread use of infantry portable ATGMs.

Not according to what I have read, and go fix your god mod in the Baker thread. T-72s were barely even around during Yom Kippur war...hmm..yeah I guess I was talking about how T-62s owned the Israeli tanks.

Lay or Mari can you do anything? I've been waiting for three days now, Spiz shows up but he doesn't respond.

Right, my SAM barrage made 239 succesful intercepts of rather large missiles, with 840 Praetorians expended, which is a 28.5% success rate, well within the range Krey specified.
And Puskha, the place is fortress, i have thousands of missiles available to me, plus the ships complement and those that will be delivered when i make my post, i just will not make it until we settle this

Length: 8.09 m (26 ft 7 in)
Weight: 1,700 kg (3,750 lb
Diameter: Kh-55: 0.514 m (1 ft 8 in), Kh-55SM: 0.77 m (2 ft 6 in)
Wingspan: 3.1 m (10 ft 2 in)

These are the dimensions, now, it is bloody obvious that you didn't take into account the fact that my missiles have collision avoidance equipment but even without that everyone here will agree that destroying 99.95% of my missiles is a godmod, and you aren't even trying to hide this. Also point me to a place there you RP enlarging and fielding all this shit onto the Baker Island, while you're at it edit your post and drop the bullshit. 840 Praetorians? On a 1.64 sqr. km island? What? How big is it now?

Length: 8.09 m (26 ft 7 in)
Weight: 1,700 kg (3,750 lb
Diameter: Kh-55: 0.514 m (1 ft 8 in), Kh-55SM: 0.77 m (2 ft 6 in)
Wingspan: 3.1 m (10 ft 2 in)

These are the dimensions, now, it is bloody obvious that you didn't take into account the fact that my missiles have collision avoidance equipment but even without that everyone here will agree that destroying 99.95% of my missiles is a godmod, and you aren't even trying to hide this. Also point me to a place there you RP enlarging and fielding all this shit onto the Baker Island, while you're at it edit your post and drop the bullshit. 840 Praetorians? On a 1.64 sqr. km island? What? How big is it now?

He expanded it seriously way back when when you were absent/gone. It was RP'd properly as far as I can remember, but I can't remember how large he made it. I still think that a 99.5 % kill of the missiles is a tad over the top though...

I think the enlargement completed was in a thread called 'Enlarging the Baker', but I could be mistaken.

(LAY: What programme do you use to write in PDF?)

Length: 8.09 m (26 ft 7 in)
Weight: 1,700 kg (3,750 lb
Diameter: Kh-55: 0.514 m (1 ft 8 in), Kh-55SM: 0.77 m (2 ft 6 in)
Wingspan: 3.1 m (10 ft 2 in)

These are the dimensions, now, it is bloody obvious that you didn't take into account the fact that my missiles have collision avoidance equipment but even without that everyone here will agree that destroying 99.95% of my missiles is a godmod, and you aren't even trying to hide this. Also point me to a place there you RP enlarging and fielding all this shit onto the Baker Island, while you're at it edit your post and drop the bullshit. 840 Praetorians? On a 1.64 sqr. km island? What? How big is it now?

What is the flight speed of these missiles? If they are based on the real-life Kh-55, which does high subsonic speeds at altitudes of around 110m (330 ft). They are subsonic so that is their main weakness. Because they fly at a low altitude though they are highly capable of evading ground missiles and stuff. Against modern NS tech they are less effective but there's no way 99.95% of them could be shot down. I wouldn't even put the number much over 50% if even that, it depends what he's shooting at them. Obviously gunfire isn't going to do much and missiles have limited engagement envelopes, particularly because of their low altitude and high speed. I imagine they not as stealthy as the US CALCM and Tomahawks but still, shooting down much more than 50% speeds almost implausible. In RL US Tomahawks and CALCMs were shot down over Iraq and Bosnia but we're talking enough to count on your hands, which is probably under 5% of what was actually fired. Of course NS tech is much, much better than what either state had but still, even 50% might be a high estimate.

Official Statement to the World

The Realm sees at the Kreynorian advances against the nation of Spizania with great concern, and fearing a Kreynorian offensive against the Arabian holdings of said nation, the Realm has deployed a task force to ensure the safety of Cottish, allied and friendly shipping through the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea.

Should a Kreynorian offensive be undertaken against the Arabian holdings of Spizania, the elements of the Royal Cottish Navy which has been moved to positions in international and Hirgizstani waters at the entrance of the Gulf of Aden will not allow the naval forces of Kreynoria entrace, as they will then be in a position to threaten the safety of the Cottish territories of Egypt and Israel, and the vital trade link known as the Suez Canal which so many of the world's nations use regularly.

The Realm urges the nation of Kreynoria to reconsider any potential offensive on the Spizanian Arabian holdings, and emphasise the threat to the national security of the Realm that such an offensive would be. We wish no conflict between our two nations, but the Realm will take the necessary actions to defend its national security.

The die is cast, and we await the Kreynorian response to this communique. Should the nation of Kreynoria decide to launch such an offensive as described above, the Realm will take no responsibility for the results of said decision. The responsibility will fall onto the leaders of Kreynoria.

[signed]
Foreign Ministry
The Realm of Cotland
.

Layarteb, might I ask you to activate my off-site forum account? It’s nothing urgent but I’d like to start organizing my military.

Also, is Arsunt considered D12 yet? He’s only made like three posts on this thread and his account has been inactive for 21 days.

Layarteb, might I ask you to activate my off-site forum account? It’s nothing urgent but I’d like to start organizing my military.

Also, is Arsunt considered D12 yet? He’s only made like three posts on this thread and his account has been inactive for 21 days.

It is active. Isn't it? I'll check...If it isn't sorry I must have forgot.

Well you are right somewhat, T-72 chassis is favored by the RL Russian Federation cause its cheaper to manufacture and is less complex, but the modern modifications of T-72 and T-90 are very good quality machines, even standard configuration T-90s feature very advanced protection suits like Shtora and Arena. Of course you have to keep in mind that in the Middle Eastern (which is the place there Russian tanks face off against western tanks) only the older models of T-72 from the 70s and early 80s are operational, those tanks were the absolute best at the time SU sold them to our middle eastern partners (it showed in the mid-1970s I think then Israel armed with newest western tanks suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of Egyptian T-72s and by humiliating I mean hundreds of Israely tanks destroyed at the loss of only a few T-72s) but now they are outdated, the RHA values for T-72 have tripled in the past 30 years and that is without introduction of already mentioned systems like Arena and Shtora as well a Kontakt-5 ERA. So the kind of T-72s they have in the middle east indeed were built with quality over quantity from modern stand point however the modern T-72s that are created in Russia today are build with quality in mind just like their predecessors have been built, but their predecessors are outdated compared to their modern western counterparts so they have to rely on quantity.


yet IDF was still able to break through the Eqyptian line with a infantry blitz on Egyptain SAMs..and why did Egyptain not want to move away from their SAM sites..CAUSE IDF'S AIR FORCE TOTALLY OWNS!

Plus Israel secret service is simply badass....Mossad..who doesn't like a secret service that uses Terrorism to kill their targets (in the movie Munich). If the CIA weren't so pussy they would follow suit and do the same. If someone would just inflitrate Al Queda and then plant a huge amount of TNT under their asses then the entire network would be owned..f what the UN says. The UN is the most useless organization in the world. "Oooohhh No Iran is building a Nuclear Bomb..Lets write them a nasty a letter in all Caps"...goddam UN. I would totally sign up to be a CIA terrorist..nothing would give me greater pressure then to rush into an Al queda meeting with a loaded AK! If the government can't do it the citizen milita will have to take matters into their own hands

What is the flight speed of these missiles? If they are based on the real-life Kh-55, which does high subsonic speeds at altitudes of around 110m (330 ft). They are subsonic so that is their main weakness. Because they fly at a low altitude though they are highly capable of evading ground missiles and stuff. Against modern NS tech they are less effective but there's no way 99.95% of them could be shot down. I wouldn't even put the number much over 50% if even that, it depends what he's shooting at them. Obviously gunfire isn't going to do much and missiles have limited engagement envelopes, particularly because of their low altitude and high speed. I imagine they not as stealthy as the US CALCM and Tomahawks but still, shooting down much more than 50% speeds almost implausible. In RL US Tomahawks and CALCMs were shot down over Iraq and Bosnia but we're talking enough to count on your hands, which is probably under 5% of what was actually fired. Of course NS tech is much, much better than what either state had but still, even 50% might be a high estimate.

By changing the engine I gave the speed of Mach 1.4 but that also means that they have to be fired from a higher altitude in order to maintain their range. Either way, it doesn't matter now, Spiz launched a nuke, haha, I still can't believe it he basically just threw away any moral ground he had in this conflict.

By changing the engine I gave the speed of Mach 1.4 but that also means that they have to be fired from a higher altitude in order to maintain their range. Either way, it doesn't matter now, Spiz launched a nuke, haha, I still can't believe it he basically just threw away any moral ground he had in this conflict.

Which makes them harder to shoot down. That'd probably drop it to 30% maximum for the best systems.

I HAVE NEW FORUMS
SAME PLACE
GO LOOK NOW
:)

I HAVE NEW FORUMS
SAME PLACE
GO LOOK NOW
:)

Sweet, did you do the art work?

No the template is not my work but it is free to use so long as the copyrights remain :).

Some Hypocrisy for everyone (Pantheaa-you'll like this):

So it seems the Democrats are raising the US Min Wage to $7.25...fair enough. There are reasons for and reasons against, but lets not get into that here. Now, the only place in the entire US that isn't going to be included in the new Min Wage law is American Samoa. Strange right? I wonder why? Well, it seems there is a big tuna factory there, employing around 75% of the populace. A BIG tuna factory! And it exports all that tuna to...San Francisco...creating jobs and cornering the tuna market and giving people cheap tuna. Nancy Pelosi is Rep. for San Fran...so Nancy gives min wage to everyone but those in American Samoa coz they happen to help her state with cheap tuna... and you wouldn't want to give those hard-working people $7.25 coz it might cost people in San Fran more money...hypocrisy anyone?

I love the new look to the forums Lay. Looks great.

Pantheaa when, if you did infact want to, did you want our meeting to go on?

I will be having a factbook up within the next week and along with it the story line for my revolution. I call it "For Country, For Comrade, For Revolution." on the bases that I am writting it on all the forces perspectives. So far I have a chapter done and I hope you guys like it.

yet IDF was still able to break through the Eqyptian line with a infantry blitz on Egyptain SAMs..and why did Egyptain not want to move away from their SAM sites..CAUSE IDF'S AIR FORCE TOTALLY OWNS!

Plus Israel secret service is simply badass....Mossad..who doesn't like a secret service that uses Terrorism to kill their targets (in the movie Munich). If the CIA weren't so pussy they would follow suit and do the same. If someone would just inflitrate Al Queda and then plant a huge amount of TNT under their asses then the entire network would be owned..f what the UN says. The UN is the most useless organization in the world. "Oooohhh No Iran is building a Nuclear Bomb..Lets write them a nasty a letter in all Caps"...goddam UN. I would totally sign up to be a CIA terrorist..nothing would give me greater pressure then to rush into an Al queda meeting with a loaded AK! If the government can't do it the citizen milita will have to take matters into their own hands

I would say, the main reason the IDF won that war was because and I quote the Egyptian leader on this "The IDF prepared for the war, we prepared to march in the streets." I would love to say that the IDF is militarily stronger than the arbian coalition that directed the attack but if they were better prepared to handle the country the war would have not come out the way it did. Though I will give credit to the IDF for the spies that penitrated (I think it's the syrian forces) and managed to get them to plant tree's in all the artillary positions, giving off their positions to the IDF assaults. As well as credit to them for their sneak attack from nowhere on Egyptian airways. I just surprised that Egyprt fell for the Isreali trick, I mean how can you be tricked by some one saying their letting their soldiers take a vacation on the verge of war. The IDF is stronge, smart and all around prepared but like I stated before if the arabian forces were prepared the war would have been alot different.

Your not talking about Yom Kippur Nero, your talking about 1967 right?.
1973 was different, it took the Israelis completely by surprise, like attacking Britain or Europe or the US on Christmas Day, Yom Kippur is a big Israeli holiday- nobody expected the attack. The Coalition in 1973 was well prepared, well armed and determined to get vengeance for 1967. There are many famous pictures of IDF Soldiers and Reservists getting into trucks, tanks and vehicles in nothing but jeans and t-shirts, they were so unprepared they thought the country would fall.

1973 was a real test of mettle and the Israelis proved their worth many times over.

Some Hypocrisy for everyone (Pantheaa-you'll like this):

So it seems the Democrats are raising the US Min Wage to $7.25...fair enough. There are reasons for and reasons against, but lets not get into that here. Now, the only place in the entire US that isn't going to be included in the new Min Wage law is American Samoa. Strange right? I wonder why? Well, it seems there is a big tuna factory there, employing around 75% of the populace. A BIG tuna factory! And it exports all that tuna to...San Francisco...creating jobs and cornering the tuna market and giving people cheap tuna. Nancy Pelosi is Rep. for San Fran...so Nancy gives min wage to everyone but those in American Samoa coz they happen to help her state with cheap tuna... and you wouldn't want to give those hard-working people $7.25 coz it might cost people in San Fran more money...hypocrisy anyone?

It doesn't matter who's in office, Republicans or Democrats, neither of them care about anything other then the illegal bribes they get from corporate America. Max Barry is really onto something with Jennifer Government.

READ MY SIGNATURE...It gives a very very very very very very very very good view on our government.

Arsunt is 21-day plus and you can take his land with an RP.

FYI I only have 11 awards entries so far and there are 26 of us. Please vote.

http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Nation-States/Forms/e2awards.htm

I claim his lands (that was Bahrain, right?)!

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=514237

The take-over thread. Enjoy while you can, since it'll be a quick affair.

Photographs of Layartebian Embassies in Foreign Lands (http://theforsakenoutlaw.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=535)

International Zone
http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Graphics/Nation-States/Embassies/internationalzone.jpg

Yes I know it's Riker's Island but in NS EOL it isn't a jail.

Unfortunately, Omnkey hasn't logged in for 25 days, and so I will be annexing Maharashtra in the Operation Carousel thread.

Thought you said earlier that he wasn't going to be able to play on E2 so you were taking his stuff?

Well he told me he changed his mind and that he wanted to and then he changed his mind again. I told him to make a final decision, and he said he just doesn't like text-based roleplay as much as real computer games. He was however, very interested in your RPs Lay, especially Ascencion and RTL.

Kreynoria;12203444']Well he told me he changed his mind and that he wanted to and then he changed his mind again. I told him to make a final decision, and he said he just doesn't like text-based roleplay as much as real computer games. He was however, very interested in your RPs Lay, especially Ascencion and RTL.

Ah well let him know he can always come back if he wants and tell him thanks for the interest. He'd probably like Decayed too.

Hey Cot, you should let Kor take Bahrain. he did bring it up and he is a new player in need of land...

just a suggestion.

Your not talking about Yom Kippur Nero, your talking about 1967 right?.
1973 was different, it took the Israelis completely by surprise, like attacking Britain or Europe or the US on Christmas Day, Yom Kippur is a big Israeli holiday- nobody expected the attack. The Coalition in 1973 was well prepared, well armed and determined to get vengeance for 1967. There are many famous pictures of IDF Soldiers and Reservists getting into trucks, tanks and vehicles in nothing but jeans and t-shirts, they were so unprepared they thought the country would fall.

1973 was a real test of mettle and the Israelis proved their worth many times over.

Yeah, I was off on my timeline, thought you guys were talking about the 6-day war. My opinion on Yom Kippur would be that Isreal did infact prove themselfs, which makes be wonder. Why do people still think they can beat them?

Hey Cot, you should let Kor take Bahrain. he did bring it up and he is a new player in need of land...

just a suggestion.

We shall see....

Photographs of Layartebian Embassies in Foreign Lands (http://theforsakenoutlaw.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=535)

It's complete these are pictures of all the embassies I have in foreign lands. Not many, I know.

Yeah, I was off on my timeline, thought you guys were talking about the 6-day war. My opinion on Yom Kippur would be that Isreal did infact prove themselfs, which makes be wonder. Why do people still think they can beat them?

Because they have no choice, there is a thing called patriotism and fighting for your land, you know. I mean Israel was created by European nations to house the Jews after WW2 cause we didn't want them in Europe. Well figure that, the Middle Eastern people don't want the Jews either.

Actually Pushka, Israel (what we know Israel as today) emerged in the aftermath of the War of Independence in 1948, when Israel was invaded by surrounding Arab nations angry at its creation. The Israelis, during the two periods of war in 1948 (there was a short ceasefire in the middle of the war itself) took more land than they had been given in the Partition Plan of 1947, thus creating what is mostly Israel today, without the Golan Heights, obviously. In essence they created what we know as Israel themselves.

Israel prior to the 1948 war was created by the UN Partition Plan in 1947, it was not created by European powers, a common mis-conception. The 1947 Patition Plan created somewhere that would have been much different than today had it remained:

http://www.cohav.org/library/1947%20partition%20plan.bmp

Europeans didn't really mind Jews being in Europe either, it was the Nazis that made many Jews flee Europe, both before and after WW2. Jews wanted to return to their historic homeland, before and after. Many did stay in some parts of Europe, mostly France and Britain, and some in Ireland. Many went to America aswell. As far as Middle Eastern people are concerned, thats their own problem. Many are sectarian, racist and prejudice, and they can stew, because they always say their the ones being persecuted, when most want to wipe Israel off the map. The truth is Israelis, or Jews, had a home in Eretz Israel (which is much bigger than the Israel of today, it includes parts of Egypt, Jordan, all of Lebanon and Syria up tp Damascus) before any Arabs or Muslims.

If anyone really wants to know, in depth, about the whole Israel story (from B.C to present day), read Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict by a guy called Charles Smith (http://www.amazon.com/Palestine-Arab-Israeli-Conflict-Charles-Smith/dp/0312404085/sr=8-1/qid=1168724660/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0601031-2017732?ie=UTF8&s=books). Unlike some history books this one actually has a lot of documents, such as full speeches and UN Resolutions etc, at the end of each chapter, making it a handy reference book aswell as a good history.

It makes me wonder if they would have never been attacked in 1948 would they have seized the rest of the land?

Actually Pushka, Israel (what we know Israel as today) emerged in the aftermath of the War of Independence in 1948, when Israel was invaded by surrounding Arab nations angry at its creation. The Israelis, during the two periods of war in 1948 (there was a short ceasefire in the middle of the war itself) took more land than they had been given in the Partition Plan of 1947, thus creating what is mostly Israel today, without the Golan Heights, obviously. In essence they created what we know as Israel themselves.

Israel prior to the 1948 war was created by the UN Partition Plan in 1947, it was not created by European powers, a common mis-conception. The 1947 Patition Plan created somewhere that would have been much different than today had it remained:

http://www.cohav.org/library/1947%20partition%20plan.bmp

Europeans didn't really mind Jews being in Europe either, it was the Nazis that made many Jews flee Europe, both before and after WW2. Jews wanted to return to their historic homeland, before and after. Many did stay in some parts of Europe, mostly France and Britain, and some in Ireland. Many went to America aswell. As far as Middle Eastern people are concerned, thats their own problem. Many are sectarian, racist and prejudice, and they can stew, because they always say their the ones being persecuted, when most want to wipe Israel off the map. The truth is Israelis, or Jews, had a home in Eretz Israel (which is much bigger than the Israel of today, it includes parts of Egypt, Jordan, all of Lebanon and Syria up tp Damascus) before any Arabs or Muslims.

If anyone really wants to know, in depth, about the whole Israel story (from B.C to present day), read Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict by a guy called Charles Smith (http://www.amazon.com/Palestine-Arab-Israeli-Conflict-Charles-Smith/dp/0312404085/sr=8-1/qid=1168724660/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0601031-2017732?ie=UTF8&s=books). Unlike some history books this one actually has a lot of documents, such as full speeches and UN Resolutions etc, at the end of each chapter, making it a handy reference book aswell as a good history.

And you're going to tell me that UN wasn't controlled by European nations at the time. Wow. Lets see now before Germany began WW2 its views had a lot of sympathizers in Europe, you can not deny that. My point is that not UN nor anyone else had any moral right to take away land from Middle Eastern countries and give them to the Jews or any other racially discriminated group for that matter.

At the time, though power was still being solidified, the UN was really controlled by the 5 powers (US, UK, France, Russia, and China). However, the UN as a whole voted. It'd be interesting to see who voted for what in that resolution. Do they keep voting records public?

I think the entire Zionist idea was prone to start a conflict somewhere. Jews were treated like a disease back then and there lots of people like this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni) that would do any thing to make sure a Jewish homeland wasn't set up in their region.

We shall see....

Any chance I could get it? Former Elephanti territory, right between two of my provinces... It's like a match made in Heaven. :D

Edit: Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UNGA_181_Map.png) a map of the voting for the resolution.

think the entire Zionist idea was prone to start a conflict somewhere. Jews were treated like a disease back then and there lots of people like this guy that would do any thing to make sure a Jewish homeland was set up in their region.



Al-Husayni was one of the first Palestinian Nationalists, a terrorist by todays definition and a rabid anti-semite who admired Hitler, the last thing he wanted was a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Koryan, I assume you meant he would to anything to ensure a Jewish homeland wasn't set up in Palestine?

Pushka, I'm not saying the UN wasn't controlled by European powers, they held a lot of sway at the time, but so did the US and the USSR. Plus, like Lay said the whole UN voted, it wasn't just the Europeans, in fact Britain, who had controlled Palestine, gave up on any decision and turned control to the UN after the war. They were ambivalent about the Israeli state, some politicians wanted it, others didn't. It was the same in many countries. But as you can see from the voting map Koryan posted, it was mostly Middle Eastern states who didn't want Israel to exist, but what can you expect from them? The thing about Palestine was that before even WW1 it didn't really belong to the Middle East, it belonged to the Ottoman's. After WW1 the British got it, so it was never really truly a part of the Middle East, even though Transjordan had claimed it was theirs many times over.

Historically speaking it was a land inhabited by many different peoples at many different times. If you go back far enough you will find the Jews were the first to arrive, and close to that time Philistines and various nomads also arrived. Unfortunately the history of the whole place is very diffuse and in todays world there are a lot of un-truths that people believe far too quickly without looking at the subject closely, which needs to be done if any deep understanding is to be garnered. Its an area I love to learn about, and as a Zionist (I'm a member of the WZO, www.wzo.org.il) I want the truth about the place to reach as many people as possible.

And Lay, if you look at the Patition map you can see how weird it would have been, it would have been difficult to govern from either side, so I reckon if the Israelis had not been attacked in 1948, something else would have happend and war would have been sparked off somehow.

Edit: Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UNGA_181_Map.png) a map of the voting for the resolution.

Well we can see by that map that more non-European countries voted for it then European countries; however, there were a lot of abstentations and the entire Arab world and Greece & India voted against it.

I'd describe the issue more as a three way split: lot of all categories.

Alright let me explain what I meant by European. That term included both US and USSR, US because being a western power like the rest of western Europe, USSR was also part of Europe (owned about half of it) and its understandable why SU would want the Jews out, the anti-Zionist sentiment was all time high before, during and after the war. But either way, saying that land in middle east was not part of middle east is bogus, UN had no right to put the jews and there and there isn't anything more to say about that. If there wasn't Israel the Middle East would be a whole lot less turbulent today.

European Powers definitely doesn't include the US but the term Western Powers doesn't include the USSR. Tough wording.

Of course European includes the US, US is part of European civilization.

Of course European includes the US, US is part of European civilization.

Not to us Americans it isn't.

Not to us Americans it isn't.

Well that doesn't change the fact that it is. Most Americans being of European decent and western European and American culture being one and the same it isn't really a big mystery.

They arent the same, they are similar, but not the same, they have several important differences

Well that doesn't change the fact that it is. Most Americans being of European decent and western European and American culture being one and the same it isn't really a big mystery.

WE might be descendant of Europeans but American culture is VASTLY different from European culture. In 1775, we may have been Europeans but not since July 4, 1776 have we been Europeans. We fought two bloody and long wars trying to get away from the Europeans. The United States is definitely NOT a European power or culture or civilization. We're our own entity.

WE might be descendant of Europeans but American culture is VASTLY different from European culture. In 1775, we may have been Europeans but not since July 4, 1776 have we been Europeans. We fought two bloody and long wars trying to get away from the Europeans. The United States is definitely NOT a European power or culture or civilization. We're our own entity.

Hmm, really? Because your culture is one and the same and you can't really argue against that, its the way it is.

You also had a lot of Europeans come in after 1776.

Hmm, really? Because your culture is one and the same and you can't really argue against that, its the way it is.

Our culture, or at least where I live combines mass amounts of different descent's. You can't rule out the fact that we have immigrating Latin American's, Asians, Africans and Middle Eastern people to go along with those Europeans. Though originally the US was European it would be a vast undestatment to say that today.

Democracy in itself is a European ideology.

Democracy in itself is a European ideology.

Being democratic doesn't make us European. If it did the Japanese, Brazilians, Mexicans, some African countries, Israel, would all be European.

Our culture is not one and the same and has some semblances alike but very few, very, very few. I'm sorry dude but America and Europe are two different things.

Merry Christmas peoples of Earth II!!!


Some little tidbits of information

1st Air Force = 13,048 jets and over 25,000 pilots [Province of Layarteb defense]
2nd Air Force = 1,270 jets and over 3,000 pilots [Foreign Deployment]
3rd Air Force = 502 jets and over 1,600 pilots [Icelandic Republic defense]
4th Air Force = 1,194 jets and over 2,700 pilots [Irish Republic defense]
5th Air Force = 1,140 jets and over 2,900 pilots [Atlantic Republic defense]
6th Air Force = 2,344 jets and over 6,900 pilots [Western Republic defense]
7th Air Force = 8,108 jets and over 19,300 pilots [Province of South Eastern Virginia defense]
8th Air Force = 3,158 jets and over 8,100 pilots [Province of Ynoga defense]
9th Air Force = 2,842 jets and over 6,400 pilots [Province of Raef defense]
10th Air Force = 3,394 jets and over 7,200 pilots [Province of Dnalkrad defense]
11th Air Force = 780 jets and over 2,100 pilots [Expeditionary force]

I hope that little bit of information makes your day like it does mine.

Have fun!

That's a total of 37,780 aircraft, $4,074,840,000,000 in cost, and 89,588 pilots.

Now it's done...

If you wonder what the 11th is that includes 2 sets of forces that are expeditionary wings. They are foreign deployed but are not static deployments. Unlike the 2nd Air Force, which all has set homes, the 11th Air Force uses foreign bases as temporary bases.

However, the deployments to Kazakhstan might as well be permanent since they've been there for so long. I've augmented that now with deployments to Turkey and Iran.

Not to ruin anyone's dinner, lunch, or breakfast but The October Alliance has itself a new charter.

Being democratic doesn't make us European. If it did the Japanese, Brazilians, Mexicans, some African countries, Israel, would all be European.

Our culture is not one and the same and has some semblances alike but very few, very, very few. I'm sorry dude but America and Europe are two different things.

Haha, yeah right, but please feel free to point out what differences, you seem to think that your culture changed drastically in 1776 overnight, wow.

Hmm, really? Because your culture is one and the same and you can't really argue against that, its the way it is.

being an "oriental", America is not much like Europe. If anything, I'd say it's "Western" more than "European"

being an "oriental", America is not much like Europe. If anything, I'd say it's "Western" more than "European"

Both US and Europe are part of western culture which is infact European. Same as Canada and Australia, everyone has their own version of it but in the core its all one and the same.

Not to ruin anyone's dinner, lunch, or breakfast but The October Alliance has itself a new charter.

Thats never good news, let me guess, you gonna stick your noses into more stuff that doesn't really concern you?

being an "oriental", America is not much like Europe. If anything, I'd say it's "Western" more than "European"

Western by all means definitely not European.

Some major differences for you Pushka are politics in general. European conservatives are American liberals. We're far more to the right in the political spectrum. We do not believe in universal healthcare or education, we have few social programs. We certainly don't accept homosexuality nearly as much as in Europe. We are considerably more religious then Europe and it shows constantly in sports games, school, politics, news, etc. We definitely don't really like soccer over here. GO BASEBALL! We have no ties to royalty as many European countries do. We certainly differed from Europe on Kyoto. We have a different outlook on military and war then Europe.

Everyday life is different too. America is VERY fast paced and we now take less vacation then the Japanese do. We believe in capital punishment. We're not parlimentary like most European democracies.

We have much lower taxes. We love SUVs.

Some Hypocrisy for everyone (Pantheaa-you'll like this):

So it seems the Democrats are raising the US Min Wage to $7.25...fair enough. There are reasons for and reasons against, but lets not get into that here. Now, the only place in the entire US that isn't going to be included in the new Min Wage law is American Samoa. Strange right? I wonder why? Well, it seems there is a big tuna factory there, employing around 75% of the populace. A BIG tuna factory! And it exports all that tuna to...San Francisco...creating jobs and cornering the tuna market and giving people cheap tuna. Nancy Pelosi is Rep. for San Fran...so Nancy gives min wage to everyone but those in American Samoa coz they happen to help her state with cheap tuna... and you wouldn't want to give those hard-working people $7.25 coz it might cost people in San Fran more money...hypocrisy anyone?

My internet went down yesterday couldn't even get on to IE!


God i hate Pelosi and the entire bay area...does anyone look at the photo blog Zombietime.com. Its pictures from all of the political action that goes around in the bay area and they have their own Marxist book store there called "revolution books" where they worship Mao, who could thousands of his own people during the Cultural Revolution. as well as a lots aged hippies who haven't taken a shower since 1970 to no surprise

Although i am glad the Democrats got rid of all the bad republicans...the Dummycrats won't survive long in Congress with their plan to deploy the Care Bears to the Middle East as Cleveland Democrat Dennis Kuinich put it "To look deep within heart of each and every person that wants to harm americans".
Yes the Democrats are a bunch of Nevelle Chamberlians, when its Winston Churchills.

Israel is the only modern nation in all of the ME. The Arab nations are runned on paranoid and conspiracy theories. They blame the jews for the short comings of their nation when in fact it was their own stupid politicans who didn't seize the opprunity to welcome Neoliberal economics in their ecnomoy. Iraq as well as the rest of the ME could of been the wealthest nation in the world..but they instead decided to go the route of state control marxism.
Their sort of like a bunch of Hitler inspired states!

Sucks for the ME cause American is switching to alternative fuel...we haved enough of their shit! We will boycott the entire middle east in 10 or so years!!

LOL i have the Kill Bill and Batman Begins soundtracks and Rammstein on my Ipod and its distracting me from writing! Rammstein rules those germens can rock!

Western by all means definitely not European.

Some major differences for you Pushka are politics in general. European conservatives are American liberals. We're far more to the right in the political spectrum. We do not believe in universal healthcare or education, we have few social programs. We certainly don't accept homosexuality nearly as much as in Europe. We are considerably more religious then Europe and it shows constantly in sports games, school, politics, news, etc. We definitely don't really like soccer over here. GO BASEBALL! We have no ties to royalty as many European countries do. We certainly differed from Europe on Kyoto. We have a different outlook on military and war then Europe.

Everyday life is different too. America is VERY fast paced and we now take less vacation then the Japanese do. We believe in capital punishment. We're not parlimentary like most European democracies.

We have much lower taxes. We love SUVs.

Not to mention that high taxes and high unemployment aren't that bad in America. Unlike Europe who them and Leftist Politicans think that bankrupting the economy and adding to the national debt is ok as long as it leads to equality in the said state. So we can all be poor and miserable equally!

Speaking of taxes, I hope Uncle Sam is good to me this year.

Western by all means definitely not European.

Some major differences for you Pushka are politics in general. European conservatives are American liberals. We're far more to the right in the political spectrum. We do not believe in universal healthcare or education, we have few social programs. We certainly don't accept homosexuality nearly as much as in Europe. We are considerably more religious then Europe and it shows constantly in sports games, school, politics, news, etc. We definitely don't really like soccer over here. GO BASEBALL! We have no ties to royalty as many European countries do. We certainly differed from Europe on Kyoto. We have a different outlook on military and war then Europe.

Everyday life is different too. America is VERY fast paced and we now take less vacation then the Japanese do. We believe in capital punishment. We're not parlimentary like most European democracies.

We have much lower taxes. We love SUVs.

And here we go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture

And here we go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture

Western is different then European.

You can't just look at modern US politics and say that US is not apart of European culture, that is completely absurd, politics are temporary culture is much more permanent. Your core your ideals, your philosophies, etc. are the same as in Europe.

Western is different then European.

Did you even read the article? Please do, read the first sentence atleast. Western is European.

You can't just look at modern US politics and say that US is not apart of European culture, that is completely absurd, politics are temporary culture is much more permanent. Your core your ideals, your philosophies, etc. are the same as in Europe.

Not really the fastest growing religion in America...is the latter day Saints. The Mormen religion is as american as apple pie

I myself am a catholic though so their is some european influence though

And also read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_culture

Majority of Americans are Christianity a religion that came to North America from there? US official language is also English, once again where did that come from?

Did you even read the article? Please do, read the first sentence atleast. Western is European.

Western culture or Western civilization is a term used to refer to the cultures of the people of European origin and their descendants

Nope it isn't European. It's a culture of people who are of European origin and their descendants. I'm sorry but you're the only person on Earth who thinks the United States is part of Europe.

The United States, aside from being democratic, is far from being European.

And also read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_culture

Majority of Americans are Christianity a religion that came to North America from there? US official language is also English, once again where did that come from?

English yes..but not all English is universal. Our dialect sounds a lot different then the Brits and our dialect sounds different then the Canooks as well

Nope it isn't European. It's a culture of people who are of European origin and their descendants. I'm sorry but you're the only person on Earth who thinks the United States is part of Europe.

The United States, aside from being democratic, is far from being European.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/western%20culture

Hell read this too, dictionary.com seems to think that US and Europe have the same culture, which originated in Europe.

Western culture or Western civilization is a term used to refer to the cultures of the people of European origin and their descendants.

Only person on earth? Its kind of a common knowledge thing actually.

And also read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_culture

Majority of Americans are Christianity a religion that came to North America from there? US official language is also English, once again where did that come from?

Just because our ancestors came from Europe doesn't mean we are European. By the way, English would be England, which has considerable differences with the mainland as well, far less then we have certainly.

Christianity comes from Catholicism which comes from Israel which comes from Judaism. So are we all Jews and Israeli then because that's where religious descent goes?

English yes..but not all English is universal. Our dialect sounds a lot different then the Brits and our dialect sounds different then the Canooks as well

Yes, dialects change, but once again a dialect of a language is not a different language and English came from Europe.

Only person on earth? Its kind of a common knowledge thing actually.

Where? Not here in America.

And also read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_culture

Majority of Americans are Christianity a religion that came to North America from there? US official language is also English, once again where did that come from?

Like wise we use a "past the post" election system. Where the winner takes all..Euros use the Rep electorial system.

Yes, dialects change, but once again a dialect of a language is not a different language and English came from Europe.

So would you consider Australia European? I mean they're directly from the Brits and they speak English too.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/western%20culture

Hell read this too, dictionary.com seems to think that US and Europe have the same culture, which originated in Europe.

DUDE how many times do we have to say OF COURSE THE US IS PART OF WESTERN CULTURE!!!!

It is not part of EUROPEAN culture.

European culture includes Russia but not the US. Western culture includes the US but not Russia.

Two TOTALLY different things here.

Just because our ancestors came from Europe doesn't mean we are European. By the way, English would be England, which has considerable differences with the mainland as well, far less then we have certainly.

Christianity comes from Catholicism which comes from Israel which comes from Judaism. So are we all Jews and Israeli then because that's where religious descent goes?

Common don't be absurd, the point I trying to get across (its rather simple really don't see how you don't get it) is that Christianity is a very fundamental part of European culture and Christianity came to US as part of that culture. I am not calling you are European I am saying that your culture is western which originated in Europe. This has nothing to do with politics or geography.

When you understand the difference between the words "western" and "European" please continue. Until then you're just posting links to "Western" culture and arguing European culture.

DUDE how many times do we have to say OF COURSE THE US IS PART OF WESTERN CULTURE!!!!

It is not part of EUROPEAN culture.

European culture includes Russia but not the US. Western culture includes the US but not Russia.

Two TOTALLY different things here.

Wrong once again, first of all the culture of Russia is much different from that of Western Europe which is also the culture of US. Western culture originated in Western Europe and has spread to US and other Western European colonies, thus US has a European culture. Here look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world

What you're saying is that both Europe and US have western culture but at the same time have a different culture, are you saying that US has two cultures at the same time? Or Europe does?

When you understand the difference between the words "western" and "European" please continue. Until then you're just posting links to "Western" culture and arguing European culture.

Alright I'll explain this "complex" matter very slowly since you choose to ignore wikipedia and dictionary.com. Okay check this out, western culture, right, I do not deny it exists. Now ask yourself a question, there has western culture come from? Oh yes it came from western Europe, figure that. So western culture originating in western Europe being the culture of modern western Europe and US is still what? Oh yes its still European (look at me I am using big size and colors just like you) culture since its origin is, was and forever will be in Europe. I really don't see how this can be explained any simpler. I am sure you might be indenial thinking that your fancy degree makes you automatically correct in every debate but don't worry about it, I publicly disprooved (and mildly humiliated) a history professor who was taught in Cambridge, UK (Yeah, that Cambridge) on the topic of WWI, so you know what, your degree doesn't make everything you say true, some times even you (oh the almighty you) have to stick with common sense such as in this case.

Just to end the bickering, The U.S. in itself is its own culture derived from I would say three other cultures, European, Spanish (Or you could tie that into European) and I would say Russian. Its because of this that you can't tie the U.S. with merely the European culture which also is not truly its own culture because they were built up from Russian and Arabian Cultures. This is my opinion on the matter.

Alright I'll explain this "complex" matter very slowly since you choose to ignore wikipedia and dictionary.com. Okay check this out, western culture, right, I do not deny it exists. Now ask yourself a question, there has western culture come from? Oh yes it came from western Europe, figure that. So western culture originating in western Europe being the culture of modern western Europe and US is still what? Oh yes its still European (look at me I am using big size and colors just like you) culture since its origin is, was and forever will be in Europe. I really don't see how this can be explained any simpler. I am sure you might be indenial thinking that your fancy degree makes you automatically correct in every debate but don't worry about it, I publicly disprooved (and mildly humiliated) a history professor who was taught in Cambridge, UK (Yeah, that Cambridge) on the topic of WWI, so you know what, your degree doesn't make everything you say true, some times even you (oh the almighty you) have to stick with common sense such as in this case.

:: sigh ::

I don't know what to tell him anymore but someone else please let him know how Western culture is not European culture, that they are two very different ideas. When the Europeans wake up they'll help me out here.

I guess we can call the Japanese American now because of all the "American" stuff they've imported.

Just to end the bickering, The U.S. in itself is its own culture derived from I would say three other cultures, European, Spanish (Or you could tie that into European) and I would say Russian. Its because of this that you can't tie the U.S. with merely the European culture which also is not truly its own culture because they were built up from Russian and Arabian Cultures. This is my opinion on the matter.

How is US culture derived from Russia? Aside from our fierce hatred of Russian during the Cold War that's about it. US culture is certainly influenced by the Euros but it's unique and quite opposite from the Euros. The Spanish or rather Hispanic influences are particularly profound but that's only been in the past few decades since our borders became white lines painted on the ground.

I'm not the best qualified to mention this, but there is grave misunderstanding of the cultures of the world.

Prime Example:

Asians are not uniquely Asian. People look at me and say I'm Asian. It's partially true - much of my heritage hails from Asia, but the true is that I'm not really an Asian. "Asian" is merely term applied by people who don't know any better but with no real intention to offend from that part of the world. People who can't distinguish a Chinese man from a Japanese man, or Thai cooking from Taiwanese cooking - they say it's "Asian" but the truth is that there's nothing Asian about them. For much of our history, people in Asia have looked under unique cultural perspectives, often radically different from each other. It may appear that all of the Asian cultures share a general history, a general lineage, but even that's not quite true. For the past 3000 years, each culture has forged it own identity, and they'll all be damned if some Westerner comes and tells them that there's no difference between Vietnam and Myanmar.

Perhaps, there is only one thing that makes an Asian genuinely "Asian" - that is, they're not "Western".

The same thing applies to what is classified as "European" - that's why people in America are called American.

If you're still not convinced, sit in a cafe in Paris and come back to New York - compare the difference between the two and tell me that you visited two cities that are culturally alike.

If you're not convinced by that argument, you'll note that the bricks in Paris [and the majority of those antique cities in Europe] are vastly older than those in New York - because they've been there for centuries while those in New York probably haven't lasted the past 100 years. European culture is much deeper and more profound than American culture. It's a rigid society that seeks to make conformities with the real world [owing to its history, not to its people].

America is the land of 200 years of history, molding and melding the cultures of numerous perspectives into one glazed piece of glass [it's not very pretty, but the idea is appealing]. They took the books from their predecessors and forged for themselves a history that is uniquely American. If you're suggesting to us that the French, or the Germans, or the Slovaks could have built something like this, you're wrong. Europe is 3000 miles away across an ocean - what happens here does not genuinely affect them [reason why independence movements swept through the majority of the Americas in the first place]. Heck, even in America, there are different cultures - West Coast versus East Coast; North versus South; urban versus suburban versus rural; labor versus corporate. So it's quite difficult to discern whether what you are describing is a misnomer of you perceive to be European and what you perceive to be Western [which, according to what I've seen, heard, read about you seem to perceive, Western = European, which is not the case].

Europe holds its own distinct culture, as does each constituent country in Europe. French culture is unique compared to German, Italian, Swiss, Magyar, or even Slovene cultures, so perhaps you could provide a unique definition of what makes a European, because I'd doubt that given the circumstances, a Briton would prefer to be called "European" over "British".

:: sigh ::

I don't know what to tell him anymore but someone else please let him know how Western culture is not European culture, that they are two very different ideas. When the Europeans wake up they'll help me out here.

I guess we can call the Japanese American now because of all the "American" stuff they've imported.

Oh please, I would love that. Really man, this is sad, you can't even grasp something as simple as that no matter what wikipedia or dictionary.com says, I even laid it out for you nice and simple you can't come up with a counterpoint so you just get straight to the defensive denial. Eh, oh well, I did my best, I guess common sense doesn't work for some people. Just answer the question, where has Western culture originated? Thats all you need to know. Hint: Its not US, its not Australia and its not Canada.

I'm not the best qualified to mention this, but there is grave misunderstanding of the cultures of the world.

Prime Example:

Asians are not uniquely Asian. People look at me and say I'm Asian. It's partially true - much of my heritage hails from Asia, but the true is that I'm not really an Asian. "Asian" is merely term applied by people who don't know any better but with no real intention to offend from that part of the world. People who can't distinguish a Chinese man from a Japanese man, or Thai cooking from Taiwanese cooking - they say it's "Asian" but the truth is that there's nothing Asian about them. For much of our history, people in Asia have looked under unique cultural perspectives, often radically different from each other. It may appear that all of the Asian cultures share a general history, a general lineage, but even that's not quite true. For the past 3000 years, each culture has forged it own identity, and they'll all be damned if some Westerner comes and tells them that there's no difference between Vietnam and Myanmar.

Perhaps, there is only one thing that makes an Asian genuinely "Asian" - that is, they're not "Western".

The same thing applies to what is classified as "European" - that's why people in America are called American.

If you're still not convinced, sit in a cafe in Paris and come back to New York - compare the difference between the two and tell me that you visited two cities that are culturally alike.

If you're not convinced by that argument, you'll note that the bricks in Paris [and the majority of those antique cities in Europe] are vastly older than those in New York - because they've been there for centuries while those in New York probably haven't lasted the past 100 years. European culture is much deeper and more profound than American culture. It's a rigid society that seeks to make conformities with the real world [owing to its history, not to its people].

America is the land of 200 years of history, molding and melding the cultures of numerous perspectives into one glazed piece of glass [it's not very pretty, but the idea is appealing]. They took the books from their predecessors and forged for themselves a history that is uniquely American. If you're suggesting to us that the French, or the Germans, or the Slovaks could have built something like this, you're wrong. Europe is 3000 miles away across an ocean - what happens here does not genuinely affect them [reason why independence movements swept through the majority of the Americas in the first place]. Heck, even in America, there are different cultures - West Coast versus East Coast; North versus South; urban versus suburban versus rural; labor versus corporate. So it's quite difficult to discern whether what you are describing is a misnomer of you perceive to be European and what you perceive to be Western [which, according to what I've seen, heard, read about you seem to perceive, Western = European, which is not the case].

Europe holds its own distinct culture, as does each constituent country in Europe. French culture is unique compared to German, Italian, Swiss, Magyar, or even Slovene cultures, so perhaps you could provide a unique definition of what makes a European, because I'd doubt that given the circumstances, a Briton would prefer to be called "European" over "British".

That is of course all true but at the same time the western culture (which is the uniting element here) that originated in western Europe now is spread all over the world including US. Please read the wiki article I posted, this doesn't take much, only some common sense. US shares with Europe the same language (english, I know the french or germans don't speak english but that doesn't mean that english is not part of European culture), belief in the same God (dominating majority of Americans are Christian, plus even your coins say "under God", belief in Christianity (the way it is today anyways) was fundamental trait of the European (the whole justification of monarchy thing and crusades, ring any bells?) culture. Ideas like free speech and representative democracy were all created by the writings of European theorists. Now if the language, the religion and the ideals such as freedom of speech and the democratic government system are not major parts of a culture than what the hell is? The way I see it is difference in cultures of US and Western Europe are like different accents in the North of US and the South, its the same thing but with a different spin relevant to the type of life people live.

Alright, I am done, I got better things to do then prove shit to a guy in denial, like diarrhea for example.

Oh please, I would love that. Really man, this is sad, you can't even grasp something as simple as that no matter what wikipedia or dictionary.com says, I even laid it out for you nice and simple you can't come up with a counterpoint so you just get straight to the defensive denial. Eh, oh well, I did my best, I guess common sense doesn't work for some people. Just answer the question, where has Western culture originated? Thats all you need to know. Hint: Its not US, its not Australia and its not Canada.

Just because "western culture" originated in Europe does not make America European. America has its own distinct culture, which is not European culture. It is Western because Western ideals prevail in America, you know democracy, capitalism, human rights, that sort of stuff, stuff that evolved during the Cold War as a counter to communism and the world of dictators. Democracy originated in Greece, Ancient Greece, but none of us are Ancient Greek now are we? Geometry and advanced mathematics were pioneered by the Muslims but we're not Muslim. What you're doing is taking the origins of something and ignoring any evolution it may have had over time and immediately thinking that because something is part of the Western world it is European by nature. Japan, as much as it is part of the Eastern World, shares many of the ideals of the Western World but it is no where near European just as the United States is nowhere near European. The United States has few things actually in common with Europe except our belief in democracy (which is a different form then Europeans believe in by the way), our pursuit of human rights and free trade, and capitalism. Our culture from our movies to our clothing is unique.

In fact, you could argue that many places in Europe have "Americanized" as well as many other places throughout the world because we've exported our culture so much. McDonalds and GAP stores in Beijing, American music throughout the world, TV programs, movies, etc. Now would you call any of those places American? Look at Canada, which is like a sponge to American culture. Ask a Canadian if he or she is American. Ask he or she if she's even European. Canada has more in common with Europe then America does, they still put the Queen as their Head of State, the same goes for Australia.

In modern times, since the end of WWII, the Western World has predominantly become centered around America more so then Western Europe.

When you say "European" culture you are saying Europe, the continent and the people of Europe. When you say "Western" you are basically saying nations of the "First World," to go back to the old definition of the Cold War days. By all means, the United States is part of the Western world and though the Western World originated in Europe, the United States is NOT European. We've probably exported more of our culture to Europe since the end of World War II then we have imported from them.

Maybe in the 1800s, early 1800s, the United States was largely still European but not today. We fought two wars to establish ourselves as American, not European. We fought our own Civil War to truly define what "American" was and, at the same time, what rights our states had. When World War I broke out we were significantly American and not European. When we sat down at Versailles and Wilson gave off his 14 Points, the Europeans brushed him off because "He was American" rather than European.

When World War II broke out and America emerged with the USSR as a superpower it was as itself, as America.

America is not European and though Americans have descended mostly from Europeans, the Latino population burgeoning now more than any other, we've, for generations and generations, made ourselves Americans. Our ancestors came to America because it was opportunity, because it wasn't Europe. Calvinists came here to escape religious persecution in Europe and in America there wasn't any, after all, Freedom of Religion. For 200 years, they've turned America into what it is, basically not European. Our political beliefs, aside from our democratic ideal, is significantly different from Europe. Our cultural beliefs to duty, honor, and family are vastly different as well. We have no allegiances to crowns and we reject the idea of nobility. Our approach to education is very different. Our approach to labor is very different. Some European countries have tax rates of 40% or higher. We, as Americans, think that is preposterous.

Now when you look at the "Western world" that has evolved into a defintion that includes Western Europe, America, Japan can be included. Usually it revolves around NATO. The Eastern World is an old term, very old, to describe the Orient. Western world does not include Russia but the European world does not include America. You are looking at two very different things here. Europe is a geographical entity. The West is less geographical and more ideological.

So when you say that America is part of European culture it is not. It is part of Western culture. European culture has evolved separately from American culture. Look at the obvious differences in political beliefs, religious beliefs, and policies. What unites America and Europe is only our pursuit for democracy and our support of human rights. We are linked to the British by our language and indeed we feel a strong link to the British but not anyone else in Europe. Even the British see themselves as their own unique culture then the mainland, mainly because of their isolation on the islands. You can even go to Germany and you'll see between both East and West Germany there is a significant culture shock between the two of them.

So yes, you are right that Western culture originated from European culture but it has certainly not remained primarily European. It has, actually, become more American than it has European. Just look at the Third World. You can go almost anywhere in the world and find a McDonalds, Coca-Cola, or a Nike store. American culture has been exported significantly throughout the world and much of the world has eaten it up, Japan especially. After all, as Rammstein says, "We're all living in Amerika, Amerika, ist wunderbar!"

Oh yes, those guys piss on their audience at their concerts they must know what they are talking about. Either way, America is a part of western culture that has its roots in European culture, if you can't even accept that then I wash my hands, there is no reason to continue this. Yes the European culture in America has evolved and mixed in with immigration and other such things, same thing happened in other places like Australia and Canada, but at the root of all of it there is still that same European culture, those same European ideologies without which the western world wouldn't have existed. Even your democracy that has no allegiance to royalty is based on writings of European theorists and philosophers. (Even though US is more like an oligarchy since the electoral college system is not democratic as was shown in the 2000 election when the people of Florida voted for Al Gore yet the Electoral college decided that Bush should have the state, but thats a whole different issue).Take it or leave it, as I said I am done, there is no point in arguing someone who decides to ignore whats infront of his eyes.

Oh yes, those guys piss on their audience at their concerts they must know what they are talking about. Either way, America is a part of western culture that has its roots in European culture, if you can't even accept that then I wash my hands, there is no reason to continue this. Yes the European culture in America has evolved and mixed in with immigration and other such things, same thing happened in other places like Australia and Canada, but at the root of all of it there is still that same European culture, those same European ideologies without which the western world wouldn't have existed. Even your democracy that has no allegiance to royalty is based on writings of European theorists and philosophers. (Even though US is more like an oligarchy since the electoral college system is not democratic as was shown in the 2000 election when the people of Florida voted for Al Gore yet the Electoral college decided that Bush should have the state, but thats a whole different issue).Take it or leave it, as I said I am done, there is no point in arguing someone who decides to ignore whats infront of his eyes.

Of course I can accept and I have from the start, what I don't accept, because its false, is that America today shares commonality with European culture. But its origins but that's it. Few other things in American culture share commonality with European culture anymore. Our own democratic system, which was created from philosophical writings of the Europeans, is vastly different than any European system, save for the German system, which we had a BIG hand in creating. The 2000 election is a perfect reason why our democracy is nothing like that of the Europeans and that was actually the 2nd time in history that such an occurrence happened and at one time the Senate was elected by an electoral college just as well.

Back in the 1780s and 1800s, the Electoral College served a purpose but nowadays, with technology, its outdated and should go. We're a republic though, deep down, and will probably always be until the day we fall.

Hey, Layarteb, mind takeing some of your own advice and...eh...

TAKE IT TO THE OFF SITE FORUMS

Danke Sehr.

Hey, Layarteb, mind takeing some of your own advice and...eh...

TAKE IT TO THE OFF SITE FORUMS

Danke Sehr.

Usually I say that when it denigrates into insult flinging and stuff like that and so far this has been pretty civilized.

Of course I can accept and I have from the start, what I don't accept, because its false, is that America today shares commonality with European culture. But its origins but that's it. Few other things in American culture share commonality with European culture anymore. Our own democratic system, which was created from philosophical writings of the Europeans, is vastly different than any European system, save for the German system, which we had a BIG hand in creating. The 2000 election is a perfect reason why our democracy is nothing like that of the Europeans and that was actually the 2nd time in history that such an occurrence happened and at one time the Senate was elected by an electoral college just as well.

Back in the 1780s and 1800s, the Electoral College served a purpose but nowadays, with technology, its outdated and should go. We're a republic though, deep down, and will probably always be until the day we fall.

Thats the thing though, you think that this commonality as you called it is insignificant while I believe that the roots of a culture make up a lot of the culture which is infact true for US and Europe, you share the same views, you are in the same bloody alliance, US helped out the westies in both world wars and part of the reason for that was because you both shared a cultural connection which is still quite strong today thats why a lot of the time American interests and western European interests are one and the same. Also by implementing the ideals of European philosophers you are infact implementing the European culture since those writers were part of that culture.

Thats the thing though, you think that this commonality as you called it is insignificant while I believe that the roots of a culture make up a lot of the culture which is infact true for US and Europe, you share the same views, you are in the same bloody alliance, US helped out the westies in both world wars and part of the reason for that was because you both shared a cultural connection which is still quite strong today thats why a lot of the time American interests and western European interests are one and the same. Also by implementing the ideals of European philosophers you are infact implementing the European culture since those writers were part of that culture.

All of which you are describing hinges on democratic insights, what Sam Huntington refers to when he says that civilizations within themselves will not conflict, because they share common governmental systems.

When you break it down though and go deeper, you can find that the American way of life and the European way of life are quite opposite. We share interests with a lot of governments, not necessarily just European. Of course we helped out in World War I & II, that was something that went to the very fabric of humanity. Countries with no relations to Europe helped out in both wars.

The NATO alliance, though there are many nations within it, is very factionalized, more so today then ever. NATO commanders in Afghanistan have actually avoided contact with Taliban strongholds and one particular unit, a German one, was actually ordered not to engage the Taliban, something VERY uncommon with America.

The only real cultural connections though lie in democracy and capitalism that's it. American culture is unique unto itself.

The USSR had much in common with China in the Cold War but they were both VERY unique cultures with VERY different takes on the same ideology. Much how the US has a different take on democracy than its European counterparts.

Well, as a Canadian, an Italian (dual citizen) and a history major, I feel obliged to weigh in on the "Western" debate, and the Israeli one too (since I've researched it a lot myself).

"Western" vs. "European". The two of them are defintely different, but Pushka- from what I think you're trying to get at- is right. In an extremely generalized sense- and I mean generalized- there is more in common between the U.S. and, say, Britain or Germany than the U.S. and Saudi Arabia. Obviously, the deeper you go, the more differences there will be, but in an extremely general sense, you can group them together. The U.S. and Europe are both market-based economies and have liberal democracies. It's easy for an outsider to look at both and think they're the same- like Saint Lazare said about Asians, someone who knows nothing about the differences in culture between the U.S. and Europe would probably suggest they're the same. Once you look deeper, you'll see plenty of differences.

"The Western World" involves a lot of diverse nations and cultures- in fact, I'd expand it to include nations such as Japan and the United Arab Emirates because both countries share that same enterprising, market-based economic outlook that much of Europe and the U.S. do. That's essentially how I define "Western"- it has an enterprising spirit and usually a market-driven economy. Deeper down, every Western nation has its own identifying mark, but every last one of them can be at least grouped together economically- they're all market-driven and that economic sense is a big part of their culture.

Israel. Here's a Reader's Digest version of the History of Palestine, as best I can make it given the space:

(I'm going to use the most accepted chronology, even though there's a dispute over how much of the Bible should be used to compile Jewish history)

1206 B.C.: Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah mentions Israel as a "people" in a victory stele. First documented mention of Israel in history.

1000 B.C.: Estimated date of the Kingdom of David. Note the only evidence of the Davidic Kingdom (also known as "Israel")- and also Saul and Solomon- is solely in the Bible, and the only mention of David is in the Tel Dan stele, where a king claims to have killed a king of "the House of David (meaning Judah, since that's where David's line continued to reign)".

930 B.C.: Estimated date of the start of the reign of Rehoboam, son of Solomon. Rehoboam's ascension splits the Kingdom of Israel into two seperate states- "Israel" (the north) and "Judah" (the south). I think archeologically speaking the first mention of Judah is either in the Tel Dan Stele or in the annals of Assyrian Emperor Tiglath-Pileser III (under who he's taken tribute from), but I can't find the book so I can't verify that at the moment.

853 B.C.: Battle of Qarqar. A coalition that includes Israelite King Ahab defeated Assyrian Emperor Shalmaneser III by the Syrian coast. Not mentioned in the Bible. First historical mention of the Arabs.

722 B.C.: Destruction of the Kingdom of Israel and deportation of the Israelies by Assyrian Emperor Sargon II.

c. late 700 B.C.: Defeat of Assyrian Emperor Sennacherib by Judahite King Hezekiah.

597-87 B.C.: Destruction of Judah and deportation of the Judahites by Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylonia.

539 B.C.: Defeat of Babylonia by Persian Emperor Cyrus II the Great. Restoration of the Jews in Palestine, but political control remained in Persian hands.

331 B.C.: Capture of Tyre by Alexander The Great. Passage of Palestine from Persian to Macedonian hands.

180-142 B.C.: Maccabee uprising in Palestine. Establishment of the Hasomean Kingdom in Palestine and restoration of Jewish rule.

63 B.C.: Capture of Jerusalem by Pompey the Great. Passage of rule in Palestine to Rome.

A.D. 131: Roman Emperor Hadrian renames Jerusalem "Aeolia Capitolina" and forbids Jews from setting foot in the area.

131-35: Revolt of Simon bar Kokhba. Hadrian suppresses the rebellion and forces Jews to emancipate across the Empire.

395: Death of Theodosius I the Great. Split of the Roman Empire into Western and Eastern halves. The East eventually becomes Byzantium and ruled over Palestine.

636: Battle of the Yarmuk River. Defeat of Byzantium by the Arabs and start of Arab rule in the area (in various different kingdoms over time).

c. 1000: Creation of the Jewish communities in Europe. These communities were formed by treaties the Jewish leaders signed with the European rulers, allowing them into jobs Christians were forbidden from entering- such as lending money.

1453: Ottoman Turks capture Constantinople, captial of Byzantium.

1461: Ottomans capture Trebizond, last outpost of Byzantine state.

1517: Ottomans defeat Mamluks of Egypt and take over Palestine.

c. 1800: Creation of the Haskalah movement in Europe. Termed the "Jewish Enlightenment", this advocated the creation of a "European Jew" whereby Jewish practices and culture would be integrated in European culture. Opposing the movement in Europe would be Hasidism, a movement dedicated to preserving Jewish traditions and were anti-integration.

1877-78: War between Russians and Ottomans ends in Russian victory. Beginning of the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire (nee Turkey) by the European powers.

1897: Theodor Herzl writes "The Jewish State" shortly after the Dreyfus Affair (where a French-Jewish soldier was wrongly implicated as a spy). Herzl advocated the creation of a Jewish national state. Birth of Zionism.

1914-18: World War I and ultimate defeat of the Ottoman Empire. Palestine passes to British hands.

1917: Balfour Declaration. British declare that Palestine can be a "national home" for the Jews. The British and Zionists begin a program of "mass immigration" to Palestine shortly after the war. Initially unsuccessful (since European Jews had no reason to leave- yet).

1933: Rise of Adolf Hitler in Germany eventually brings the Holocaust and the effective end of the Jewish communities in Europe (and, by extension, the Haskalah movement). Palestinian immigration rises immensely. Most of the immigrants here are European Jews- there already were a considerable number of Arab Jews in the area.

1936-39: General Revolt by the Arabs to protest the mass immigration, which was carried out without their consent.

1947: Israeli Partition Plan. Palestine divided into "Arab" and "Jewish" sections where eventually the new country of Israel would be formed, wedged into areas controlled by Arab states.

May 14, 1948: Israeli independence after British soldiers withdrew en masse. Britain stationed more troops in Israel during its occupation than anywhere else in its Empire. First Arab-Israeli War, ending in Israeli victory.

1967: Six-Day War. Israel pummels Egypt, Jordan and Syria, occupies the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights. Victory underscored Israel's military prowess, but one observer noted that of all the combatants Israel faced, only the Jordanians fought with any passion- and Jordan was the hardest foe Israel had to defeat.

1973: Yom Kippur War. Arabs and Israelis clash to a stalemate. Israeli warplanes- vital to the success in the Six-Day War- were nullified after the installation of the SAM missile defence in Egypt.

1978: Treaty signed by Egypt and Israel where Egypt recognized Israeli soverignty (first Arab state to do so) in exchange of Israeli withdrawal from the Sinai. Israeli withdrawal completed by 1980.

1993: Oslo Accords between Palestinian Liberation Organzation- which had been terrorizing Israel for over a decade- and Israel. Concessions signed by both sides but had a limited overall application in practice.

1994: Treaty signed by Israel and Jordan where Jordan recognized Israeli soverignty.

2000: Palestinian "intifada" (uprising) against Israel begins over disagreements over the implentations of the Oslo Accords. The Palestinians alleged that Israel was too slow in withdrawing from Gaza and the West Bank (as Jewish settlements were built there), while Israel claimed that the Palestinians failed to stop their terrorist activities.

2005: Withdrawal of Jewish settlements from the Gaza Strip.

2006: Seperate wars between Israel and Gaza on one front and Israel and Lebanon on the other after three Israeli soldiers were kidnapped.

What I had hoped to do here is create an "overall" sense of Jewish and Arab history as it relates to Palestine, because it's more complicated than you might imagine. If I need to clarify anything, please let me know.

I'll say this: Pushka, your not American, and thus you have no real right to tell Americans what their culture is or should be. You try telling an Irish person that he is 'European' or that Ireland has 'European' culture, its simply not true. America is vastly different from Europe, and thats one of the many reasons for anti-americanism in Europe, they see Americans as 'different' and 'dangerous', just because they dislike homosexuals, still go to church and drive big cars.

America is western, yes, but not remotely European.



On another note, can someone give me the link for that Natural Resources thread that USB started. Cheers.

Humm, I have to be gone for a few days and a war breaks out. The ironic part about it is Pushka and company are fighting over a man-made island. In light of the recent events:

-------------------------------------
OFFICIAL STATEMENT

Holy Republic of Hawdawg
Office of the Prime Minister, Gordon Wells

It is with much distress that the Republic has witnessed a conventional spat turn into a nuclear onslaught. We are shocked and disgruntled that nuclear weapons were used and strongly state our disgust with this action. We maintain our nuclear arsenal with one thing in mind, "Only in defense, never in offense." We surely hope the other powers involved in this conflict will adopt this policy to ensure the the ecosystem we all enjoy will remain viable for our children's children.

In light of the hostile actions taken by both camps in this conflict, the Republic of Hawdawg has decided to place the Spizanian portion of the UAE into "protectorate status" pending the outcome of this conflict. We have moved our fleet from Iran to a position blocking all hostile naval vessels from approach to this territory. All Spizanian forces and citizens remaining inside the terroritory will be allowed to leave as they wish, but no forces will be allowed in. We will not allow this conflict to spread to this region and disrupt the fragile peace we have manufactured since the defeat of the insurgents in Abu Dubai.

Signed,

Gordon Wells
Prime Minister
Holy Republic of Hawdawg

Haw, you need any help in the UAE, just shout- those 5 Corps and the 12th Airborne are still in the south of the UAE, in the part I took that now belongs to Rome.

I'll say this: Pushka, your not American, and thus you have no real right to tell Americans what their culture is or should be. You try telling an Irish person that he is 'European' or that Ireland has 'European' culture, its simply not true. America is vastly different from Europe, and thats one of the many reasons for anti-americanism in Europe, they see Americans as 'different' and 'dangerous', just because they dislike homosexuals, still go to church and drive big cars.

America is western, yes, but not remotely European.



On another note, can someone give me the link for that Natural Resources thread that USB started. Cheers.

Wow thats a nice position, just because I am not American no matter what facts I bring up the fact that US is part of European civilization is not true? You are by any definition a moron my friend.

Humm, I have to be gone for a few days and a war breaks out. The ironic part about it is Pushka and company are fighting over a man-made island. In light of the recent events:

-------------------------------------
OFFICIAL STATEMENT

Holy Republic of Hawdawg
Office of the Prime Minister, Gordon Wells

It is with much distress that the Republic has witnessed a conventional spat turn into a nuclear onslaught. We are shocked and disgruntled that nuclear weapons were used and strongly state our disgust with this action. We maintain our nuclear arsenal with one thing in mind, "Only in defense, never in offense." We surely hope the other powers involved in this conflict will adopt this policy to ensure the the ecosystem we all enjoy will remain viable for our children's children.

In light of the hostile actions taken by both camps in this conflict, the Republic of Hawdawg has decided to place the Spizanian portion of the UAE into "protectorate status" pending the outcome of this conflict. We have moved our fleet from Iran to a position blocking all hostile naval vessels from approach to this territory. All Spizanian forces and citizens remaining inside the terroritory will be allowed to leave as they wish, but no forces will be allowed in. We will not allow this conflict to spread to this region and disrupt the fragile peace we have manufactured since the defeat of the insurgents in Abu Dubai.

Signed,

Gordon Wells
Prime Minister
Holy Republic of Hawdawg

Spiz launched a fucking nuke and you're gonna protect him for that? Why don't you invade him eh? Get that peace you want and get more land. This is completely idiotic, not that I could have expected anything else from a member of October Alliance, always have to put your nose into things that don't concern you.

I'm staying out of that conflict unless my interests are threatened, which they are not, so in the meantime i'll be following the thread, drinking Coca-Cola and listening to 'Change the World' on fastforward. (It sounds VERY funny on FF. ;) )

Spiz launched a fucking nuke and you're gonna protect him for that? Why don't you invade him eh? Get that peace you want and get more land. This is completely idiotic, not that I could have expected anything else from a member of October Alliance, always have to put your nose into things that don't concern you.

You do realize that TOA isn't protecting Spizania. Hawdawg isn't, Hirgizstan announced he wouldn't help, so did I, Cotland isn't favorable on him. So 1 person doesn't constitute TOA. You have failed to grasp that time and time again. Hawdawg is acting out of his own, personal sovereignty here because it would be detremental to him if Spizania fell in the UAE so yeah, I guess that's TOA, I mean 1 out of 6 acting in one way is definitely TOA and I wonder by what math.

Wow thats a nice position, just because I am not American no matter what facts I bring up the fact that US is part of European civilization is not true? You are by any definition a moron my friend.

I'll say this: Pushka, your not American, and thus you have no real right to tell Americans what their culture is or should be. You try telling an Irish person that he is 'European' or that Ireland has 'European' culture, its simply not true. America is vastly different from Europe, and thats one of the many reasons for anti-americanism in Europe, they see Americans as 'different' and 'dangerous', just because they dislike homosexuals, still go to church and drive big cars.

America is western, yes, but not remotely European.



On another note, can someone give me the link for that Natural Resources thread that USB started. Cheers.

Okay. Now it's beginning to get out of hand, perhaps we should stop now and take it off-site.

Don't worry Lay, I am done, I said everything I had to say and I don't feel like repeating, people can draw their own conclusions I don't care.

Spiz launched a fucking nuke and you're gonna protect him for that? Why don't you invade him eh? Get that peace you want and get more land. This is completely idiotic, not that I could have expected anything else from a member of October Alliance, always have to put your nose into things that don't concern you.

Who said I was protecting him? I am protecting my interests in the region. I don't have to invade, your doing it for me.

-Hawdawg

Who said I was protecting him? I am protecting my interests in the region. I don't have to invade, your doing it for me.

-Hawdawg

I know that, but if we can't attack his holdings in UAE then this war can drug on for far longer then it has to. If you do that yourself while we attract the majority of his armed forces elsewhere that'd be better for both you and us.

Confederate Governmental Statement
In light of previous comments by the Hawdawgian Government, any warship other than those of the Confederate Navy, or Navies of allied nations, will not be allowed to approach within 20 nautical miles of any Confederate Coastline or Naval Facility, any such vessel will be fired upon without prior warning.
In addition, the Government will hereby issue letters of the Marque to any captian willing to take them and become privateers,
Long Live the Confederacy

I know that, but if we can't attack his holdings in UAE then this war can drug on for far longer then it has to. If you do that yourself while we attract the majority of his armed forces elsewhere that'd be better for both you and us.

Your attacking his Yemenian possessions will make him capitulate, he doesn't have that much territory in UAE for you to worry about. Stay out of the UAE, I will defend it as my own.

-Hawdawg

Oh great Spiz, your not only a rogue nation launching Nukes at people, your also now resorting to Piracy/Terrorism? Way to go.

Hey Spiz you want to respond to my new attack already? Hopefully you won't resolve to nuclear strikes again because you know, people here don't take that kind of thing lightly.

Check out my factbook. The ILAF, in detail, is posted. I'll be working on the navy next.

Everyone watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lCII7MxFbI&mode=related&search=

Мужики я вас некогда незабуду! Россия вас незабудет! Серега еще увидемся, в аду или в раю но где то мы с тобой еще покурим.

Everyone watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lCII7MxFbI&mode=related&search=

Мужики я вас некогда незабуду! Россия вас незабудет! Серега еще увидемся, в аду или в раю но где то мы с тобой еще покурим.

What's that translation? By the way, what's the translation of the Spizania War thread?

Ah nvm that, I saw that clip and it kind of kicked up all the memories and shit. Now that I think about it what I said was kind of cheesy so nvm it. As for taking the baker thread, it translates to Pacific Ocean Ambitions

Good clip though, its all parts of a short series Grozovye Vorota (Thunder Gates) which is based on a true incident that happened in 2002 then a rota (100 men) of Russian soldiers unexpectedly ran into 3000 Mujahadeens trying to cross the border from Georgia. The rota held out for 3 days, suffered 98 men in fatal casualties but killed 300 rebels and did not let them get across the border before the reinforcements arrived and wiped the floor with the rest of the terrorists. The opening line of the song (then the guy talks) translates to "This song is dedicated to those who came back and didn't come back from the war as well as mothers that lost their sons in Afghan and Chechen wars."

It took 3 days for reinforcements?

Might have been two, I don't remember much about the incident I am gonna go take a look. The spin that the series puts on it is that the rota was used as bait to get the terrorists a false sense of security to get them to gather up in full strength thinking that they could easily punch through the Russian positions so they could be wiped out once and for all. I am gonna look it up.

С 29 февраля по 3 марта 2000 года в горах под чеченским селением Улус-Керт (Аргунское ущелье) рота 104-го гвардейского парашютно-десантного полка Псковской дивизии ВДВ вела бой с многократно, в 20-25 раз превосходящими силами террористов. Не уступив дорогу бандитам, прорывающимся из окружения, 84 воина- десантника отдали свои жизни за целостность России, уничтожив свыше 700 боевиков и до конца выполнив долг перед Отечеством.

From February 29th to March 3rd in year 2000 in the mountains near Chechen village Ulus-Kert (Argunskoye canyon) a rota (company I guess would the English word?) of 104th Gvardeiskogo (Gvardia is an Army size unit, in the many conflicts Soviet Union fought since WW2 (and Russian empire before that) the status of Gvardia was awarded to Armies that did something heroic or some such) paratrooper Polk (eh...Polk is 3 rotas) of the Pskovsk division of VDV (Russian paratroops) battled against a many times, 20-25 times larger terrorists force. Not letting the bandits pass 84 Russian warriors-paratroopers gave their lives for the wholeness of Russia, destroying more than 700 rebels and to the end fulfilling their duty to the Fatherland.

http://www.russianamerica.com/common/arc/story.php?id_cat=8&id=268642

This is a site that talks about the premier in Moscow of a documentary about this incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk1FNnnzzi4

This is a music video with footage from the movie 9ya rota (9th rota), this one is also based on real events but much more loosely even though its a great movie has been called the Russian "Platoon". In the movie 9th rota is abandoned as the Soviet army starts pulling out from Afghanistan and is destroyed while fighting against a much more numerous Afghani force which the rota destroys without radio and artillery support. Thats the end of the movie though, before it gives the story of men of the 9th rota before the event. In reality the rota had both contact with the HQs and the artillery support all the way through the battle, has lost only 6 men and killed hundreds of Mujahadeens.

another music video for the same movie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-nbzxW94SQ

It's a shame that 84 of them died because they weren't properly reinforced or because they were "bait." That doesn't say a lot for the commanders at all. I'm glad we don't use our soldiers as bait in wars and that we make sure there's air support available if needed. I can't begin to describe how many articles and accounts I've read about US soldiers being trapped and then, air support comes, and saves the day.

It's a shame that 84 of them died because they weren't properly reinforced or because they were "bait." That doesn't say a lot for the commanders at all. I'm glad we don't use our soldiers as bait in wars and that we make sure there's air support available if needed. I can't begin to describe how many articles and accounts I've read about US soldiers being trapped and then, air support comes, and saves the day.

Unless your in supply or a transportation company..then your on your own. Army Truck drivers have to learn to fight on their own cause no one will come for us. We aren't heavy armored either so jump out of the truck if you get by a RPG. One Sergent i met had to jump out of a burning truck that was going 70 mph in Iraq cause it got hit by an RPG

I should post my military pic on the offsite forum.. I look badass in my beret


Nero..we can have the meeting in downtown Kursk i guess. It can be a formal dinner with my Prime minsiter and your leader doing a photo op afterwords then a some talking later

Your attacking his Yemenian possessions will make him capitulate, he doesn't have that much territory in UAE for you to worry about. Stay out of the UAE, I will defend it as my own.

-Hawdawg

As for the Spiz situtation. We will not be responisable for a nation Capitualting so if it is Spiz's last possession we will withdraw our forces. We wish only to see powers weakened not destroyed. I will show spiz the same mercy that the TOA nations showed me during my war

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SL [Post 17625]: Thread added.
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USB [Post 16685]: Thread added.
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Doomingsland: Please post your "RP'd Population" in this thread. This is not what your NS population is but what you claim to have when you RP.




Last Update: Page 1,174
Current Update: Page 1,196

It's a shame that 84 of them died because they weren't properly reinforced or because they were "bait." That doesn't say a lot for the commanders at all. I'm glad we don't use our soldiers as bait in wars and that we make sure there's air support available if needed. I can't begin to describe how many articles and accounts I've read about US soldiers being trapped and then, air support comes, and saves the day.

I am not saying that what the commanders did was right from a moral perspective but you have to understand that if there is no bait then it is almost impossible to battle the terrorists. Its hard to get them concentrated in one area and if you try to destroy numerous small groups then there is a big chance that some of them will simply go around your line while you're taking care of the others and while US is thousands of miles and an ocean away from Iraq if those terrorists get on Russian territory there is going to be buildings blown up and schools taken hostage. Those men fought well killing more then 700 mujahadeens I know that is no reconciliation for their mothers but if they didn't die another Beslan could have happened and then we'd have hundreds of civilians killed. In war you have to pick the lesser of two evils, it is never an easy decision, as they say in my country (of origin) the eyes of those kids will be looking into the eyes of their commanders for the rest of their life.

I am not saying that what the commanders did was right from a moral perspective but you have to understand that if there is no bait then it is almost impossible to battle the terrorists. Its hard to get them concentrated in one area and if you try to destroy numerous small groups then there is a big chance that some of them will simply go around your line while you're taking care of the others and while US is thousands of miles and an ocean away from Iraq if those terrorists get on Russian territory there is going to be buildings blown up and schools taken hostage. Those men fought well killing more then 700 mujahadeens I know that is no reconciliation for their mothers but if they didn't die another Beslan could have happened and then we'd have hundreds of civilians killed. In war you have to pick the lesser of two evils, it is never an easy decision, as they say in my country (of origin) the eyes of those kids will be looking into the eyes of their commanders for the rest of their life.

You say that like terrorists aren't wanting to turn America into Lebanon with all the fighting there. There's just as much risk to letting them get into our borders as yours.

As far as Beslan goes there's like 200 different stories about who fired the first shots and who did what, it's a confusing mess, no idea who did what first but we do know the end result. Chechen terrorists, pfft...

As for the Spiz situtation. We will not be responisable for a nation Capitualting so if it is Spiz's last possession we will withdraw our forces. We wish only to see powers weakened not destroyed. I will show spiz the same mercy that the TOA nations showed me during my war

This will be duly noted.


-Hawdawg

You say that like terrorists aren't wanting to turn America into Lebanon with all the fighting there. There's just as much risk to letting them get into our borders as yours.

As far as Beslan goes there's like 200 different stories about who fired the first shots and who did what, it's a confusing mess, no idea who did what first but we do know the end result. Chechen terrorists, pfft...

Who fired the first shot? How about who took an elementary school hostage and put bombs in the gymnasium? Why the hell would we want a bunch of kids dead? Punk the shit you are fighting in Iraq are nothing compared to what we are fighting in Chechnya and Dagestan, unlike yours our terrorists can do a bit more then plant a bomb in a car or on the road, they are closer then any other terrorists to the old soviet weapons stock pile, they have people who joined them after the Soviet army fell apart, they are much organized having a president, Generals and other ranks. Chechen terrorists (plus those who are helping them) are much more numerous then those in Iraq, they had a whole bloody generation grow up already fighting the war against Russian forces their whole life. US soldiers never experience attacks like the ones in Nalchik for example. And to get to US they have to swim across an ocean after marching a couple of thousand miles, nothing that US troops do is changing the inability of the terrorists to get into US. In order to get to Russia all the terrorists have to do is march across the border from Georgia or Chechnya which are to big to fully close off, and thats it, they're in. You have no bloody idea of what you're talking about. Why the hell are we once again having a debate? Is it so hard for you to respect the lives that those soldiers gave up to protect their motherland?

Wow. Do you hear yourselves. Grow the Fuck up seriously...fighting over who's enemies..terrorists are 'better'. Its actually sickening. There is no bad badder or baddest [i know that isnt a word]...they are terrorists and are all equally evil.

I am not fighting, its pointless but Lay seems to think that as he said "There's just as much risk to letting them get into our borders as yours" and thats bull. He can't also respect those soldier's sacrifice and that just pisses me off.

I am not fighting, its pointless but Lay seems to think that as he said "There's just as much risk to letting them get into our borders as yours" and thats bull. He can't also respect those soldier's sacrifice and that just pisses me off.

You're about 19 miles off on this one buddy. By the way hot head I wasn't trying to insinuate that the Russian army wanted the kids dead in Beslan, only that it was a chaotic situation that is one of the worst events that happened in recent times but since you're so hell bent on thinking I am trying to pick a fight with you every time you don't see anything other then what you want to see.

Dude, I am stoned, I don't even really care right now.

Dude, I am stoned, I don't even really care right now.

And that's the argument killer right there lol.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12211367#post12211367

Operation Unification Attention Koryan, invasion of Udmutia and Sverdlovsk both Koryan territories.

Wait... didn't I already give my Russian territories to you?

Edit: Very nice thank you gift, by the way.

Heh, look the Iraqies got the taste of blood and can't stop, two other guys are were hanged now.

Unless your in supply or a transportation company..then your on your own. Army Truck drivers have to learn to fight on their own cause no one will come for us. We aren't heavy armored either so jump out of the truck if you get by a RPG. One Sergent i met had to jump out of a burning truck that was going 70 mph in Iraq cause it got hit by an RPG

I should post my military pic on the offsite forum.. I look badass in my beret


Nero..we can have the meeting in downtown Kursk i guess. It can be a formal dinner with my Prime minsiter and your leader doing a photo op afterwords then a some talking later

Oh so you're in the military? Didn't know that, are you like in National Guard or something?

It's a shame that 84 of them died because they weren't properly reinforced or because they were "bait." That doesn't say a lot for the commanders at all. I'm glad we don't use our soldiers as bait in wars and that we make sure there's air support available if needed. I can't begin to describe how many articles and accounts I've read about US soldiers being trapped and then, air support comes, and saves the day.
Yeah, I can think of about thirty Norwegian soldiers that's very thankful to the F-16 pilot that flew over Meyanmeh that february morning last year, firing off a salvo of 20mm directly behind the angry crowd to complement the 7.62mm rounds our boys fired into the Taliban that attacked our base. End result: 1 Norwegian base thrashed, 6 Norwegians WIA. 14 - 30 Taliban killed, unconfirmed number of others wounded by Norwegian gunfire... Thank heavens for close air support. Hadn't it been for that, we'd have coffins brought home instead of lightly wounded soldiers...

Heh, look the Iraqies got the taste of blood and can't stop, two other guys are were hanged now.

They're bloodthirsty alright. Decapitating the head of Barzan, alledgedly while hanging him? What did they do? Use piano wire? :confused:

By the way did you guys watch the videos I posted here? What do you think of those movies?

Dude, I am stoned, I don't even really care right now.

Drugs are bad.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12211367#post12211367

Operation Unification Attention Koryan, invasion of Udmutia and Sverdlovsk both Koryan territories.

Added.

Heh, look the Iraqies got the taste of blood and can't stop, two other guys are were hanged now.

These are all planned for some time now.

They're bloodthirsty alright. Decapitating the head of Barzan, alledgedly while hanging him? What did they do? Use piano wire? :confused:

You want to tell us something?

By the way did you guys watch the videos I posted here? What do you think of those movies?

Very good.

Drugs are only bad if you get addicted otherwise they're great. Like for example, I got stoned last night with my friends, I had fun, but today I didn't get stoned again cause I have work to do. Its all good, I made myself a rule to only do drugs and alcohol on weekends this semester.

Drugs are only bad if you get addicted otherwise they're great.

I bet. :rolleyes: :headbang:


12,666th post

We only get to live life once man, might as well have some fun with it.

We only get to live life once man, might as well have some fun with it.

That is an outlook. I want to play with explosives but they won't let me so pfft, no fun!

Wait... didn't I already give my Russian territories to you?

Edit: Very nice thank you gift, by the way.

No I don't believe you did, if you want to though I can halt the invasion and we can have a political meeting.

Nero..we can have the meeting in downtown Kursk i guess. It can be a formal dinner with my Prime minsiter and your leader doing a photo op afterwords then a some talking later

Im good with that, whenever you want to start just place the thread and i'll be there.

I would like to claim Bahrain unless someone else already owns it.

---EDIT---

Actually nvm, don't need it.

I gave them to you the Russian territories last month. Here's the post. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12081063&postcount=17144)

I would like to claim Bahrain unless someone else already owns it.

Cotland is claiming it but if you want to counterclaim you could.

I gave them to you the Russian territories last month. Here's the post. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12081063&postcount=17144)

Ohh...I really missed this didn't I?

I don't really need that island, I can't access it cause TOA can easily block off the entrance to it plus I am about to get a part of that peninsula once I kick Spizania's ass. By the way, is he going to respond to my missile attack? Its been a couple of days.

I don't really need that island, I can't access it cause TOA can easily block off the entrance to it plus I am about to get a part of that peninsula once I kick Spizania's ass. By the way, is he going to respond to my missile attack? Its been a couple of days.

Dude he responded yesterday:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12209069&postcount=75

He didn't respond to the attack in the Baker, as he said himself in the OOC part he was too tired.

Give him some time when it becomes a week of no posts in that thread but he posted elsewhere then raise some hell.

I gave them to you the Russian territories last month. Here's the post. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12081063&postcount=17144)

Alright, nvm then I suppose everything that just happened can be forgotten...no hard feeling? :D

No problem, man.

I'll make sure I do the update for that.

I'll make sure I do the update for that.

Sweet, I'm racking up quite a bit of territory now.

The following takes place between 8:00 AM and 9:00 AM. I'll do it later.

E2 AWARDS PEOPLE

ONLY 11 ENTRIES THUS FAR

http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Nation-States/Forms/e2awards.htm

VOTING ENDS FRIDAY @ 12:00 AM GMT

Oh about the Israeli thing, I was talking about the 1982 first Lebanon war then Syrian T-72s wiped the floor with Israeli armored forces.

Oh about the Israeli thing, I was talking about the 1982 first Lebanon war then Syrian T-72s wiped the floor with Israeli armored forces.

Oh yeah by 1982, the M60 was more then out of date. The M1 was coming into the focus then and the Israelis were beginning the Merkava program. If I remember, the 1982 war was why they built the Merkava and improved it so greatly. The M60 was really old by then, dating back to before Vietnam. The T-72 was about 10 years ahead of it and built with a lot different lessons then the M60. Hell, if the M60s won I would have said the battle was fixed :).

T-72s were able to win because they could fire at their opponents accurately from a much longer range and this was before the T-72s started being built with a gun that doubles as a rocket launcher. The thing is though that the Israelis already had Merkavas (program started in 19809) and they also had modified M48s that had Blazer reactive armor. So yeah...the Syrians captured one M48 and gave it to the Soviets who shot at the T-72 with the most modern western rounds of the day. From the closest range the T-72 armor only needed half a millimeter more of armor to stop the projectiles, because of this the T-72 armor was modified as well as other things like ERA were employed. Today T-90 Vladimir that is the evolution of the T-72 program features a gun that doubles as a missile launcher that can destroy enemy tanks and helicopters from 5 km away. Shtora system that works to disable guided missiles fired at the tank by using such technique as creating an aerosol cloud dispersing projectile in an event a laser lock-on is detected, and using other techniques (all that can be found out easily). It has Arena system that shoots down incoming unguided projectiles and it has the Kontakt-5 ERA which according to testing done in US in 1999 American sabot munitions can't penetrate. So yeah.

Careful Nerotika, your 'advances' in Russia is making the Trensk territories nervous, it wouldn't take much more for 'strong' measures to be implemented...Quite frankly...Your expansion is making me quite NERVOUS and WORRIED...

I'll be seeing you. ; )

T-72s were able to win because they could fire at their opponents accurately from a much longer range and this was before the T-72s started being built with a gun that doubles as a rocket launcher. The thing is though that the Israelis already had Merkavas (program started in 19809) and they also had modified M48s that had Blazer reactive armor. So yeah...the Syrians captured one M48 and gave it to the Soviets who shot at the T-72 with the most modern western rounds of the day. From the closest range the T-72 armor only needed half a millimeter more of armor to stop the projectiles, because of this the T-72 armor was modified as well as other things like ERA were employed. Today T-90 Vladimir that is the evolution of the T-72 program features a gun that doubles as a missile launcher that can destroy enemy tanks and helicopters from 5 km away. Shtora system that works to disable guided missiles fired at the tank by using such technique as creating an aerosol cloud dispersing projectile in an event a laser lock-on is detected, and using other techniques (all that can be found out easily). It has Arena system that shoots down incoming unguided projectiles and it has the Kontakt-5 ERA which according to testing done in US in 1999 American sabot munitions can't penetrate. So yeah.

Well it wasn't that they couldn't penetrate them it was that the Kontakt was the most effective ERA that there was. They developed newer rounds for the 120 millimeter and they can penetrate now.

So I have $175 trillion in the SL bank. Whose nation can I buy?

Careful Nerotika, your 'advances' in Russia is making the Trensk territories nervous, it wouldn't take much more for 'strong' measures to be implemented...Quite frankly...Your expansion is making me quite NERVOUS and WORRIED...

I'll be seeing you. ; )

No need to worry, the expansion ended up non-militaristic and so being peaceful you can ignore the military action as if it never happened.

The following takes place between 8:00 AM and 9:00 AM. I'll do it later.

Done. Please check the map and the spreadsheet and the claims list and it'll be updated.

-_- Uh huh...Well forgive me if i do not believe you easily, we are afterall only separated by one province...So i'll have to wait and see...Time is the true judge.

I thought that the forums were a better place to discuss this sort of stuff...

-_- Uh huh...Well forgive me if i do not believe you easily, we are afterall only separated by one province...So i'll have to wait and see...Time is the true judge.

Just remember to let me know what military hardware you need. The Empire has made a deal to help your military get on its feet and we won't reneg on that one. Aide and assistance will come as well.

Yep, i remember, btw, i'll be contacting you soon for another shipment, i'm gonna increase my Military size to be better able to combat any threats to Trensk, because to put it bluntly, any military could potentially wipe my own army out from the face of the Earth...-_-

Usually I say that when it denigrates into insult flinging and stuff like that and so far this has been pretty civilized.

Yes but if you were to take an opinion survey -

Quite a bit of people would like it to end, just because it is annoying.

Yes but if you were to take an opinion survey -

Quite a bit of people would like it to end, just because it is annoying.

It's been over and nobody expressed any concern to me over it at all so I'm not sure where you conducted said opinion survey or did you just use your own?

By the way did you guys watch the videos I posted here? What do you think of those movies?

They were cool but it would of been better if you cut out the annoying Russian music and put in some Metellica. "Master of Puppets", "Unforgiven" or "Nothing Else Matters" sounds good with any war movie..in fact loop all three tracks together and WOW. I know it sound good cause i was listening to those songs on my Ipod while watching it and i totally marked out for Russia

In good news i finally fixed my computer. I can't believe im such a dumbass i been running this computer with a PCI Gefore 7600 GT OC in the video slot when my motherboard actually has PCIe 16X, So i bought the Radeon X1950! One of the best video games out there and now my games aren't freezing anymore and i have better picture all around! high Five

In fact put "Hero of the Day" to those video clips! And have all the violent scenes at the end when the band startes wailing on their guitars

In fact put "Hero of the Day" to those video clips! And have all the violent scenes at the end when the band startes wailing on their guitars

Seek and destroy works great for SEAD clips.

Seek and destroy works great for SEAD clips.

I actually had a friend who was in ROTC that did a clip of Search and Destroy and Let the bodies hit the floor with Apache gun video clips and videos of Iraqi tanks getting destroyed..it was hardcore and he got an A- for it too

I actually had a friend who was in ROTC that did a clip of Search and Destroy and Let the bodies hit the floor with Apache gun video clips and videos of Iraqi tanks getting destroyed..it was hardcore and he got an A- for it too

I'd imagine. Apache's are like the worst thing that ever happened to the Main Battle Tank. The A-10 certainly makes it painful but the Apache is like death.

I'd imagine. Apache's are like the worst thing that ever happened to the Main Battle Tank. The A-10 certainly makes it painful but the Apache is like death.

Yeah i actually wanted to be an Apache pilot but my eyes aren't good and i didn't test high enough on the ASVAB. :( ...i only got a GT score of 85, Oh well i could still try to be one but i would of a lot of work.

Anyways back to Business Nero,the RP of our nations should be either up later today or tomarrow. I'll TG when its ready

Yeah i actually wanted to be an Apache pilot but my eyes aren't good and i didn't test high enough on the ASVAB. :( ...i only got a GT score of 85, Oh well i could still try to be one but i would of a lot of work.

Anyways back to Business Nero,the RP of our nations should be either up later today or tomarrow. I'll TG when its ready

That's shitty. I debated joining the Coast Guard and I wanted to be a Jay Hawk pilot.

Just a reminder here for people joining the ITC. Please give USB your listing of major ports, FTAs, and element prices.

-_- Uh huh...Well forgive me if i do not believe you easily, we are afterall only separated by one province...So i'll have to wait and see...Time is the true judge.

To give a show of good faith maybe an alliance is in order? I would be willing to open talks with your nation, maybe a trade agreement or you can go into buisiness with World Tech. for military technology needs. Hey if you want to make a little extra cash, sponser the IMCI (Internation marijuana Cultivation Industry) you don't have to smoke it to get the money.

Well it wasn't that they couldn't penetrate them it was that the Kontakt was the most effective ERA that there was. They developed newer rounds for the 120 millimeter and they can penetrate now.

True now they can but in 1999 they couldn't, there is a Jane's magazine entry available on the web about this. Russia is working on third generation ERA by the way.

Just a note: The Israelis learned some lessons about the M60 from 1982, and this is what their M60's now look like:

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/sabra/sabra4b.jpg

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/sabra/sabra2b.jpg

Its called the Sabra and is based on an M60A3. The Turkish Army have 170 and the Israelis are currently upgrading as many serviceable M60A3's as they have to this level. Some experts say that it actually surpasses the Merkava IV. The Patton legend lives on.