NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1409030&C=america

F/A-22A and its ludicrious designation are no more. It is back to the F-22A, the way it should be!

Dude.

Caring about this makes you about as geeky as it gets.

Dude.

Caring about this makes you about as geeky as it gets.

Dude that is a given fact you do realize.

I always thought the /A was pointless. FA-22 would have made more sense, but F-22 is definetly better.

I always thought the /A was pointless. FA-22 would have made more sense, but F-22 is definetly better.

F/A was so Congress wouldn't cancel it. That's so sad when the Select Committee on Defense Spending or whatever it is called can't see the true potential of the F-22 without the /A in front of it, which goes to show, Congress knows not what this country needs.

to be honest, Im much more of a benevolent dictatorship kind of guy, which is what I try to make my nation, even if the UN thing says otherwise, screw them

Yeah the problem with this game is that when taxes go away they never come back. if I had 10% tax I could have so much more money.

Exactly. The game doesn't seem to understand that having a 90% tax rate would drive every business out of the country, and that lower taxes- and thus bringing in industry- can actually raise governmental revenues since it induces spending.

Overall, though, I throw out what the game gives me, because it's irrelevant and incomprehensible. I just manage my own statistics, which I keep track of in my factbook.

Here is a thread on the reformation of the Squornshelan Government:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=458977

Exactly. The game doesn't seem to understand that having a 90% tax rate would drive every business out of the country, and that lower taxes- and thus bringing in industry- can actually raise governmental revenues since it induces spending.

Overall, though, I throw out what the game gives me, because it's irrelevant and incomprehensible. I just manage my own statistics, which I keep track of in my factbook.

We don't need businesses! We ARE the business!

MWAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahAAAAAA!!

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1409030&C=america

F/A-22A and its ludicrious designation are no more. It is back to the F-22A, the way it should be!

You ought to be glad your nation makes it's own aircraft! The UK just does crappy joint projects. Unless that FOAS thing comes through - which it probably won't.

На Руси не спокойно [Earth II]

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10097083#post10097083

Kinda sterring things up a little bit, bringing some old evil doers back.

Out of curiosity, what does the name mean?

Not all is calm in the land of Rus

Ah, that makes sense.

Please check TGs, Ele.

According to NS Tracker


Kreynoria Combined Defense and Law & Order Spending: $16.59 trillion

Layarteb Combined Defense and Law & Order Spending: $9.14 trillion



Funny, eh?

My storefront is reopened (organizing threads by starter works wonders for finding things) all E2 members get a 5% discount.

Could someone kind of critique my military and give me comments because I'm kind of new to the military creation thing and my last military listing really sucked.

I lay claim to the unclaimed Lesotho.

Damn!

Krey-Where is your military? Army organization is the hard part. I used TNs storefront, not sure if it is still open. It is a great store though.

NORTH GERMANIA
Just saw the post in Operation Spah. Rather concerning for 2 reasons.
1) the "we have sleeper cells in every nation ready to wreak havoc on your nation" seems rather n00bish, and can be considered godmodding.
2) Aside from the ethics of having said cells, you said there were only 5 members in the group. Unless you have 1/7 of a member in every country, something doesnt add up.

YO ALL
Me, being the benevolent person I am, has decided to give you all a present (unless you are Huahin, Pantheaa, or Brydog) namely, a $1,000,000 gift card to my storefront. While it isnt much in the naval sections, it helps a lot in land, air, or animals. Just to get some buisiness when it is starting out.)

Kreynoria']Could someone kind of critique my military and give me comments because I'm kind of new to the military creation thing and my last military listing really sucked.

I have my Navy broke down into Fast Attack Groups, Shore Pounding Battle Groups, and MEF's. Here is a couple of pics showing my layout and numbers I assign to each group. When at sea these groups always stick to this formation. It protects from AA, ASW, etc. and keeps them in the fight longer. Put simply frigates, destroyers, and cruisers are easier to replace than Battleships and Carriers. You can check out my armed forces links at the bottom of my post to look at my organization of my branches of service if you would like. Overall I think you have a good start with what I looked at. Hope this helps.

http://img334.imageshack.us/img334/2685/fastattackgroup3wd.png
-------------------------------------------------------------------
http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/4653/ssf3cx.png

-Hawdawg

Krey-Where is your military? Army organization is the hard part. I used TNs storefront, not sure if it is still open. It is a great store though.



Posted it on Defenses Sheet. I have too many suppliers: MierTech, Layarteb, DMG Industries, Kriegzimmer, Leafanistan, Space Union, Soviet Bloc, Portland Iron Works, Praetonia, the Cottonmouth, Lakesvag Naval Yards, and the Silver Sky.


Thanks Hawdawg. I was wondering if my navy had adequate logistics? Check the defence sheet.

Kreynoria:

I never put carrier group to sea without an of oiler close by to resupply with aviation fuel weekly. Sustained combat air patrols really burns the fuel. Supercarriers can carry alot of gas, but the newer, faster planes consume more than the older generations of attack craft. A carrier also has the capability to carry fuel oil for smaller vessels like the Destroyers and Frigates with make up the AA, ASW net around it, but in limited amounts. If you are going to attach supply ships to each combat group an oiler needs to be standard for each group regardless of the task forces assignment. The Frigates, Destroyers and CODAG Cruisers will definitely need it. Ammunition supply isn't as big of a problem as fuel but a one week 24 hour bombardment of an enemy will require weapons resupply within 7 days. I suggest a AOE-6 Fast Combat Support Ship or equivalent for this job.

I don't align my support/logistics fleet with any surface fleet I keep them divided equally among my naval bases around the world and dispatch them as needed to support the individual combat groups at sea. This allows for more flexibility in my battle plan and offers the ability to move from ocean to ocean with relative ease. If you have AIM send me a IM (Screen name= txagman543) and I will send you a excel spreadsheet with all my statistical stuff if you would like. My per annum expenses for naval, coast guard and auxillary support fleet is $612,408,500,000, based on what currently ready for naval combat. Navies aren't cheap, but it sure is nice to duke it out over someone elses land than your own.

-Hawdawg

The Nurio which I have attached to most fleets is a modular vessel capable of filling roles as a command, hospital, supply, refuel, transport, and assault ship.


My AIM is flayertim92

Im in the mood for death and destruction...
Who wants to get invaded!

Actually i am planning on invading someone thats not D12 or close to D12 (No not North Germania) but i want to now what are the consqueces, will my land in Russia be invaded and taken away from me if i choose to start a blitzkrieg

THE WHITE WOLF (panthea national animal) is looking for a prey

Im in the mood for death and destruction...
Who wants to get invaded!

Actually i am planning on invading someone thats not D12 or close to D12 (No not North Germania) but i want to now what are the consqueces, will my land in Russia be invaded and taken away from me if i choose to start a blitzkrieg

THE WHITE WOLF (panthea national animal) is looking for a prey
Me! Me! Me! Please! Invade me!

*preps military for epic fight*

:D

Im in the mood for death and destruction...
Who wants to get invaded!

Actually i am planning on invading someone thats not D12 or close to D12 (No not North Germania) but i want to now what are the consqueces, will my land in Russia be invaded and taken away from me if i choose to start a blitzkrieg

THE WHITE WOLF (panthea national animal) is looking for a prey

Yes, attack a TOA or VCO member, it'll take attention away from more important matters...

Where is North Germania at the moment?

-----

Does anyone have any land for sale?

kick-ass map (http://0302.netclime.net/1_5/741872/1134724083_11181/Map.jpg) of my kick-ass country.

I've discovered link sometimes doesn't work from other computers, just wanna check.

kick-ass map (http://0201.netclime.net/1_5/F/4/O/Map.jpg) of my kick-ass country.

I've discovered link sometimes doesn't work from other computers, just wanna check.

Sweet map, man. How did you make it?

VCO members please check our forums, especially Marimia.

kick-ass map (http://0201.netclime.net/1_5/F/4/O/Map.jpg) of my kick-ass country.

I've discovered link sometimes doesn't work from other computers, just wanna check.

That is a kick ass map, what software did you use?

Im in the mood for death and destruction...
Who wants to get invaded!

Actually i am planning on invading someone thats not D12 or close to D12 (No not North Germania) but i want to now what are the consqueces, will my land in Russia be invaded and taken away from me if i choose to start a blitzkrieg

THE WHITE WOLF (panthea national animal) is looking for a prey

Hey i want to get invaded, and after i completely annihilate you i won't take away all your land, you may keep it, but i will install a puppet government and force join you into some crazy alliance with me and then you can do whatever you want as long as you don't mess with Voronej and do what i tell you then i tell you to do something.

That is a kick ass map, what software did you use?

MS Paint

Did you do it from scratch of edited an image?

MS Paint

I think I am one of the few people that don't use MS Paint. I use Fireworks and Photoshop.

Did you do it from scratch of edited an image?

Heavily editted image. Top and western parts of map I had to do from scratch, along with adjustment of rivers and such.

I think I am one of the few people that don't use MS Paint. I use Fireworks and Photoshop.

I use Paint and GIMP.

Legend

Red: General announcements (21-day, decree 12, etc.)
Blue: Response to your posts (claims, threads, etc.)
Green: Service announcements (to all, RPs, etc.)









Varsola [Post 7935]: Wassup!
TLS [Post 7952]: I would never vote for McCain.
Elephantum [Post 7953]: Nobody can tell you what you can or can't have in your military. The only stipulation on E2 is MT.
Pushka [Post 7960]: Thread added.
Bjorn [Post 7964]: My GDP is always growing.
Elephantum [Post 7965]: I know they are two colors. It is because of the different area plots. Antarctica has no boundaries so laying claims are tough. That's why I have the set parts that must be used.
RomeW [Post 7972]: Thread added.
VL [Post 7973]: That's active again?
Elephantum [Post 7983]: eh I have 634 subscriptions but they are all organized by folders and stuff.
Neuvo Rica [Post 8009]: Don't bag on the Typhoon. If the F-22 didn't exist it would be #1 in terms of fighters in the world.
Kreynoria [Post 8018]: Lestho is yours.
Kreynoria [Post 8025]: Added you to my BL on AIM (TheUnforgiven57).

Don't bag on the Typhoon. If the F-22 didn't exist it would be #1 in terms of fighters in the world.

Eh, no it wouldn't. Its not a 5th-generation fighter and SU-37 is a better 4++ generation fighter with Russian aerodynamics and maneuvarability technologies that are superior to the western alternatives plus western (French/German, i think also Malaysian but i am not sure) avionics.

Eh, no it wouldn't. Its not a 5th-generation fighter and SU-37 is a better 4++ generation fighter with Russian aerodynamics and maneuvarability technologies that are superior to the western alternatives plus western (French/German, i think also Malaysian but i am not sure) avionics.

LMFAO! The Typhoon is 4.5 generation. When/if the Su-37 ever gets in service it'll be 4.

Eh, no it wouldn't. Its not a 5th-generation fighter and SU-37 is a better 4++ generation fighter with Russian aerodynamics and maneuvarability technologies that are superior to the western alternatives plus western (French/German, i think also Malaysian but i am not sure) avionics.
OK, I'm backing the hell away from anything that come close to that one then! I'm challenging you. Prove that the SU-37 is better. Prove it. Let the people of E2, not you and not me, be the judges.

Disclaimer: I do not trust Russian aircraft, subs, tanks, ships, vehicles, trains, anything which have to do with Russia (except vodka and AKs)! I just don't trust that shit.

Bjorn [Post 7964]: My GDP is always growing.

Prove it, put up some stocks on the BISE or else you're nothing but a antibusiness-leftwingedsocialist-francophilic-treehugging-hippy!

Prove it, put up some stocks on the BISE or else you're nothing but a antibusiness-leftwingedsocialist-francophilic-treehugging-hippy!

LOL last time I put up stocks for the LDC the whole thing spazzed out and nobody posts...that and I know as much about economics as I do about interstellar travel.

LMFAO! The Typhoon is 4.5 generation. When/if the Su-37 ever gets in service it'll be 4.

SU-37 is 4.5 as well. Thats according to Sukhoi and it is a correct statement. Russian 4th Generation fighters are Mig-29 and Su-27.

But lets compare

SU-37

Role All-weather fighter and ground attack prototype
Crew 1 Officer
First flight April 1996
Entered service N/A
Manufacturer Sukhoi Design Bureau, Russia
Dimensions
Length 22.183 m 72 ft 77 in
Wingspan 14.7 m 48 ft 22 in
Height 6.43 m 21 ft 09 in
Wing sweep
Wing area
Weights
Empty 18,500 kg 40,790 lb
Loaded
Maximum takeoff 35,000 kg 77,160 lb
Powerplant
Engines 2 Lyulka AL-31FP turbofans
Thrust
Performance
Maximum speed 2,500 km/h
at altitude 1,550 mph
Range 3,700 km 2,230 mi
Service ceiling 18,000 m 59,055ft
Rate of climb
Armament
Guns 30mm cannon
Missiles 14 hardpoints, max external load 8,200 kg

The airframe contains high proportion of carbon-fibre and Al-Li alloy. Has thrust vectoring. Is an all weather fighter.

Eurofighter

Crew: 1 or 2
Length: 15.96 m (52 ft 5 in)
Wingspan: 10.95 m (35 ft 11 in)
Height: 5.28 m (17 ft 4 in)
Wing area: 50 m² (540 ft²)
Empty: 9,752 kg (21,500 lb)
Loaded: 15,550 kg (34,280 lb)
Maximum takeoff: 21,000 kg (46,300 lb)
Powerplant: 2 Eurojet EJ200 turbofans each rated at 60 kN (13,500 lbf) dry and 90 kN (20,200 lbf) in reheat

Performance
Maximum speed:
Mach 2.0+ — 2,390 km/h (1,480 mph) at altitude, Mach 1.2 at sea level
Without afterburning (supercruise): Mach 1.3 at altitude with typical air-to-air armament
Range: (all using 3 drop tanks):
Air Combat (10 minute loiter): 1389 km (860 miles)
Air Combat (3 hour CAP): 185 km
Ground attack (hi-lo-hi): 1389 km
Ground attack (lo-lo-lo): 601 km
Ferry: more than 3706 km (2,300 miles)
Service ceiling: > 18,000 m (60,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 15,240 m/min(50,000 ft/min)
Wing loading: 311 kg/m² at normal takeoff weight (63.7 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 7.7 N/kg (0.79 lbf/lb)

Armament
Guns: 27mm Mauser BK-27 cannon
Missiles: AGM-84 Harpoon, AGM-88 HARM, AGM Armiger, AIM-9 Sidewinder, AIM-132 ASRAAM, AIM-120 AMRAAM, IRIS-T, MBDA Meteor, ALARMs, Storm Shadow(AKA "Scalp EG"), Brimstone, Taurus, Penguin
Bombs: Paveway 2, Paveway 3, Enhanced Paveway, JDAM
Other: Laser designator, e.g. LITENING pod

Other
Cost: depending on specification
Austria: EUR 63 million "fly-away cost" (only the plane) and 100 million "system cost" (logistics, support, subsystems DASS, MIDS)
Germany: EUR 85 million "system cost"

Uses more composite materials then SU-37 but doesn't have the thrust vectoring. There is nothing about this plane that widely stands out compared to SU-37 except its less potent maneuvarability.

Basically SU-37 is more maneuvarable, faster, has better range. Eurofighter can carry more armament. Yes SU-37 is the better fighter.

LOL last time I put up stocks for the LDC the whole thing spazzed out and nobody posts...that and I know as much about economics as I do about interstellar travel.

So I assume this means you will be putting up stocks momentarily? Excellent, we are happy you have choosen the BISE all we need to know are the names of the companies and what they do.

So I assume this means you will be putting up stocks momentarily? Excellent, we are happy you have choosen the BISE all we need to know are the names of the companies and what they do.

What unearthly price would I give the stocks?

you could just pull a random number out of nowhere. But look at current prices for comparison.

you could just pull a random number out of nowhere. But look at current prices for comparison.

That's so helpful.

Alright kids as an older man in this establishment i will part my wisdom upon you. This is how you mix beer and vodka. No don't just take a shot of Stolychnaya and then chase with a bottle of beer, do it smarter. Take a half full shot of vodka and gently pour beer into it, then make sure not to tamper with the natural process, if the shot doesn't shake then the beer and vodka will not mix right away instead they will flip spaces with beer going to the buttom and vodka on top. That is the time to drink it, one of this will get you drunk, two of these will get you as they call it there i come from "out of the ass drunk" which means that then you wake up you will not remember your name, you will not know what happened last night and your shoes will be gone. Why is this better then a shot and beer chaser you ask? Well i can tell you my young friend, it will not make you want to pee like beer does and you will not have as big of a headake in the morning as you get from a good ol' bottle of Stolychnaya vodka, but you will be equally drunk.

This has been Ivan's guide on how to get drunk, i am not responsible for any unwanted pregnancies, deaths, or crimes commited while following the instructions listed in my guide.

Alright kids as an older man in this establishment i will part my wisdom upon you. This is how you mix beer and vodka. No don't just take a shot of Stolychnaya and then chase with a bottle of beer, do it smarter. Take a half full shot of vodka and gently pour beer into it, then make sure not to tamper with the natural process, if the shot doesn't shake then the beer and vodka will not mix right away instead they will flip spaces with beer going to the buttom and vodka on top. That is the time to drink it, one of this will get you drunk, two of these will get you as they call it there i come from "out of the ass drunk" which means that then you wake up you will not remember your name, you will not know what happened last night and your shoes will be gone. Why is this better then a shot and beer chaser you ask? Well i can tell you my young friend, it will not make you want to pee like beer does and you will not have as big of a headake in the morning as you get from a good ol' bottle of Stolychnaya vodka, but you will be equally drunk.

This has been Ivan's guide on how to get drunk, i am not responsible for any unwanted pregnancies, deaths, or crimes commited while following the instructions listed in my guide.

*writes this down*

What unearthly price would I give the stocks?

100-500M shares going for $10-$100/share

There is no need to argue about which Fighter is better. The true dynamic that isn't being considered is the pilot. You could have the most complete combat airframe out with 7,000 hardpoints, Mach 7 speed, etc., but without a pilot that is highly skilled, you might as well be sending up someone in an ultralight with a spitball gun. ALL planes have quirky things about them people would want to change, unless you design something on your own, or use something from Soviet Bloc.

**shameless plug**

Seriously check out his newest creations on lineartinc, its amazing looking stuff.


-Hawdawg

In better news the first squadron of 24 F-22A Raptors became combat ready today, representing the only 5th generation fighter in active service. Oh I can't wait until they pwn some bad guys with the AIM-9X from 8 miles out, the AIM-120C-6 from 45 miles out, or the famed AIM-120D from 65 miles out. Joyous!

Seriously though who will they be fighting in atleast the next 20 years? There is no way you are going to go to war with any major military power any time soon and all those middle eastern folks rarely have a rusty old mig, and it will take a while for PAK-FA to get to all the Abduls and Ali-Babas. So, don't hold your breath Lay.

Seriously though who will they be fighting in atleast the next 20 years? There is no way you are going to go to war with any major military power any time soon and all those middle eastern folks rarely have a rusty old mig, and it will take a while for PAK-FA to get to all the Abduls and Ali-Babas. So, don't hold your breath Lay.

PRC & DPRK are major military powers.

Hey i want to get invaded, and after i completely annihilate you i won't take away all your land, you may keep it, but i will install a puppet government and force join you into some crazy alliance with me and then you can do whatever you want as long as you don't mess with Voronej and do what i tell you then i tell you to do something.

yeah right! Im not going to invade NG so why would i invade you.When I would have a better chance with NG!

Im going to really bored after School lets out so i want to start a war to past the weeks. Bringing in the New Year with a bang! Have to decide who to attack though.....

BY THE WAY DON'T DISS THE TYPHOON MY COUNTRY USES SOVIET TECH!!
and trust me you won't be laughing when that M16 of yours jams because a little bit of mud got in it while my AK74 can still fire

Oh Oh Oh...Attack me :)

yeah right! Im not going to invade NG so why would i invade you.When I would have a better chance with NG!

Im going to really bored after School lets out so i want to start a war to past the weeks. Bringing in the New Year with a bang! Have to decide who to attack though.....

BY THE WAY DON'T DISS THE TYPHOON MY COUNTRY USES SOVIET TECH!!
and trust me you won't be laughing when that M16 of yours jams because a little bit of mud got in it while my AK74 can still fire

While I blow you both away with an XM-8.

While I blow you both away with an XM-8.

Yeah about that...DOD cancelled it in early November :(. SOF adopted the SCAR-L/H. Nice weapon but the XM8 would have been pwnage...XM29 is also cancelled. So onto the 21st Century with the M4 and M16.

Yeah about that...DOD cancelled it in early November :(. SOF adopted the SCAR-L/H. Nice weapon but the XM8 would have been pwnage...XM29 is also cancelled. So onto the 21st Century with the M4 and M16.

What?!!!

What?!!!

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20051103.aspx

XM8 Put to Sleep
November 3, 2005: The XM8, the U.S. Army’s design for a new assault rifle and light machine-gun, has been cancelled. Actually, the project was put on hold last July. At the time, the reason was believed to be the ongoing debate over whether a new caliber (6.8mm was most often mentioned) should be adopted. While the XM8 used more modern engineering, and was lighter and more reliable, it was basically an improved M-16, just another 5.56mm assault rifle. Meanwhile, SOCOM adopted another new 5.56mm design (SCAR), while the U.S. Marine Corps decided to stay with the M-16 in the future. The XM8 may be revived, in another caliber. But for now, the army does not want to spend several billion bucks on a new assault rifle. Better to wait until the war in Iraq dies down, and radically new weapons, like the 25mm XM-25, hit the field, and pile up some combat experience. Basically, the army believes there are better alternatives than the XM8, but are not sure exactly what these alternatives are.

Since the 6.8 x 43mm was proven to have military usage the presence of the 5.56 x 45mm seems to be a major question.

Someone apparently constructed a Baltic-White Sea canal a long time ago, does this still exist?

Someone apparently constructed a Baltic-White Sea canal a long time ago, does this still exist?
That would be me. Yes, it still exists, but it's in Hawdawgs hands.

Well it then sounds as if I may be next on Pantheaa's list of potential countries to invade.

**Sharpens Talons**

Be careful what you wish for.


-Hawdawg

Since the 6.8 x 43mm was proven to have military usage the presence of the 5.56 x 45mm seems to be a major question.

Who cares how big the bullet is? As long as it kills someone, I'm down with that.

That would be me. Yes, it still exists, but it's in Hawdawgs hands.

Very interesting...

Yet another image (http://0301.netclime.net/1_5/Q/Z/K/Patriarch2.JPG) has been editted and added to my gallery. I know, stupid cartoon, but stupid cartoons are much easier to edit. If you don't know who it is, we need to have a serious talk about your tastes in video-games.

Here's a picture of what the SCAR should look like. This is the 5.56mm base version. I have heard that it will be green, and possibly the base model will have a side folding stock, not a collapsible one.

The recent game, Ghost Recon 2: Summit Strike, portrayed several versions of the SCAR very accurately it must be said.

Personally speaking I hated the XM-8 from its initial conception. I like the idea of the OICW although it needs a lot of work. The SCARS I like because it keeps the RIS/Picattiny rails that are loved by soldiers because of the ability to change and modify aspects of the weapon so easily.

At home I have an M4A1 RIS (6mm Automatic Airsoft Gun) and I can tell you that the RIS rails are amazingly useful and practical.

The SCAR, in many places, is also known as the HK 416, which it is known as in production cirlces. But the troops and the Army will know it as the SCAR I believe.

SCAR Pictures:

http://www.defensereview.com/hksecret9/HK416%20Enhanced%20Carbine%20(5.56x45mm)%20Fact%20Sheet_1_Large.jpg

http://www.fadedempire.co.uk/firepower/firepower-pics/hk416cqbr.jpg

Hirgizstan: Since when does HK the marketing and sale for FN in the USA? The SCAR is made by FN, as long as I know. btw, Lay, That was an announcement, I don't know when that will be solved.

Who cares how big the bullet is? As long as it kills someone, I'm down with that.

It matters very much. The 5.56 x 45mm is a very high velocity round, which tends to just pierce through the victim (as it can go through like 10mm of RHA easily). It has little stopping power. The 7.62 x 51mm has a lower velocity but significantly more energy and stopping power, which just puts the victim down. The problem is that the 7.62 and the 5.56 are radically different in their range abilities, ballistics, and weight. The 6.8 x 43mm has all the benefits of both, the ultimate bullet, so to speak. The only thing is NATO switched to the 5.56 in the '60s and that was very difficult. Now trying to get them to switch to th 6.8 is just as difficult. It's all about politics.

Hirgy that is damn sexy! I love HK.

yeah right! Im not going to invade NG so why would i invade you.When I would have a better chance with NG!

Fat chance, buddy.

NORTH GERMANIA
Just saw the post in Operation Spah. Rather concerning for 2 reasons.
1) the "we have sleeper cells in every nation ready to wreak havoc on your nation" seems rather n00bish, and can be considered godmodding.
2) Aside from the ethics of having said cells, you said there were only 5 members in the group. Unless you have 1/7 of a member in every country, something doesnt add up.

Reply to Comment 1: I did not once say they could wreak havoc, my friend. Sleeper cells which gather intelligence on a nation are quite feasible and are actually used by the CIA today, along with numerous other intelligence organizations from many, many countries, notably Russia. You should know that.

Reply to Comment 2: If you were able to read carefully enough, you would notice that I mentioned the Thule Gesellschaft had numerous agents working for it. They're not necessarily part of the organization itself.

None of that could be construed as "n00bish" or "godmodding". It seems to me like you're just trying to find something to pick at with my RP'ing. And the last time I checked, you weren't even involved in Operation Späh to begin with. You were only involved in the sense that the aforementioned sleeper cells were in every nation.

Keep in mind, it's not some omnipotent force of people that gather intimate details on every single government on Earth, they merely gather what intelligence they can. That's nothing godlike or silly.

So the next time you want to make condescending, know-it-all comments regarding something I've worked hard to type up for the game, actually be a bit more relevant to what I and everyone else involved are doing and read more carefully. If I come off as rude, it's because that was insulting.

Thanks to Hirgy I adopted the HK416 as the M73 Enhanced Carbine

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=385111

I'm also thinking of adopting the same version. I was actually waiting to see how things went in RL. Now they've scrapped the XM-8 I'll probably put the SCAR into action alongside my own version of the OICW.

Thanks for posting that Lay, the info I had was from an article in the summer on military.com, and at that tim, VL, I think HK had the contract for their 416. But as you can see FN actually make the SCAR, which is strikingly similar at the business end to the HK version. That probably means the early test users/operators liked it, but preferred the FN made model. I do too actually, and I am soooooo glad to see 7.62 make a comeback in an assault rifle.

(Lay, btw, i am currently testing a new Heavy Sniper rifle with CENTURION Battle Armor equipped units in the Ottoman Alliance Wargames. Its a 15.7x120mm Anti-Personnel/Anti-Materiel rifle. Its made for the CENTURION, but if your interested I'm sure I could send some your way ;))

I'm also thinking of adopting the same version. I was actually waiting to see how things went in RL. Now they've scrapped the XM-8 I'll probably put the SCAR into action alongside my own version of the OICW.

Thanks for posting that Lay, the info I had was from an article in the summer on military.com, and at that tim, VL, I think HK had the contract for their 416. But as you can see FN actually make the SCAR, which is strikingly similar at the business end to the HK version. That probably means the early test users/operators liked it, but preferred the FN made model. I do too actually, and I am soooooo glad to see 7.62 make a comeback in an assault rifle.

(Lay, btw, i am currently testing a new Heavy Sniper rifle with CENTURION Battle Armor equipped units in the Ottoman Alliance Wargames. Its a 15.7x120mm Anti-Personnel/Anti-Materiel rifle. Its made for the CENTURION, but if your interested I'm sure I could send some your way ;))

Ouch! I have my 15.5 x 115mm though, which isn't that much smaller so I'm going to have to stick with that. Yeah the HK416 was the HK contribution to the SCAR program but they chose the FN SCAR-L/H over it. I can see why. The HK416 has a much shorter barrel in the 10.5 & 14.5 (other versions aren't ready) and the HK417 with the 7.62 isn't ready yet either. The SCAR-L/H have a longer barrel and the -H is NATO 7.62 and ALSO the Russian 7.62 x 39...that little tidbit means all the bad guys we kill suddenly become instant ammunition storages. That is why they invented the AR-47, which is an M4 basically made to shoot the Russian 7.62 x 39. SOF in Afghanistan are using all the bullets from the badguys to shoot back at them lol!

PRC & DPRK are major military powers.

Whats PRC and DPRK stand for?

Whats PRC and DPRK stand for?
PRC = People's Republic of China
DPRK = Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea

EDIT-How dare you post before me

Peoples Republic of China and Dem. Peoples Rep. Of Korea (or north korea)

Whats PRC and DPRK stand for?

Peoples Republic of China and Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. First one; ChiComs, second one is North Korea.

Of course, I don't see why Lay considers the DPRK to be a military power. Sure, they have missiles and junk, but I'm surprised their soldiers haven't all starved to death. In an actual engagement with a nation like the United States, they would collapse about as fast as Saddams Army in the Second Gulf War (or, as it's more commonly known in the west, the First Gulf War, or Operation Desert Storm). Before that, everyone thought Saddam had a pretty tight army as well.

Peoples Republic of China and Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. First one; ChiComs, second one is North Korea.

Of course, I don't see why Lay considers the DPRK to be a military power. Sure, they have missiles and junk, but I'm surprised their soldiers haven't all starved to death. In an actual engagement with a nation like the United States, they would collapse about as fast as Saddams Army in the Second Gulf War (or, as it's more commonly known in the west, the First Gulf War, or Operation Desert Storm). Before that, everyone thought Saddam had a pretty tight army as well.

Given the sheer amount of money that the regime has poured into the military and the sheer number of their forces, coupled with their late model Fulcrums, Alamo-C and Alamo-Ds, their Archers, and the sharing of some tech with China...yep...I give them a major military power.

I doubt US will go to war with China, i mean they are the reason an average American can afford to buy a T-shirt. Plus last time i checked Bush just went there and there isn't any real tension.

TLS, I refer you to the following book:

'Kim Jong Il and the Looming Threat of North Korea'
By Jasper Becker.

Do not underestimate the DPRK. Lay is damm right to call them a military power. Their Army, while malnourished, is indoctrinated since birth and believes their hardship to be the fault of the USA and ROK, and only them. Of course dissenssion would spread in a war, but I have no doubt that their Army of over 800,000 would be a formidable foe.

They also have SOF forces in excess of 88,000, the largest SOF forces in the world. They are trained to infiltrate ROK and US bases dressed as ROK and US soldiers, driving their vehicles. They have also attempted to dig tunnels miles into ROK under the DMZ.

The DPRK also has thousands and thousands of Artillery and NBC capable SRM's bunkered down over the DMZ, pre-sighted for a devestating attack on Seoul. However, new systems will allow even the smallest artillery shell to be tracked to its source, and destroyed from the air or sea.

The DPRK is also deficient in its Air Power and most of its armor is seriously outdated. Its Navy, while pretty much rusting away, is large and functions.

Make no bones, the DPRK is a serious military power, and it has to be said, one of the biggest threats to world peace since the Nazis invaded Eastern Europe.

It is economy that wins wars.

It is economy that wins wars.

An unholy alliance of the PRC and DPRK means Taiwan, ROK, and Japan don't exist. I think that's coming...but I can't be too sure.

But yes an economy does, in the long-run. If the DPRK and PRC go against ROK, Japan, and Taiwan you can bet the first strike won't be the most covential, especially from teh DPRK. Their No Dongs are not usually equipped with conventional warheads.

Given the sheer amount of money that the regime has poured into the military and the sheer number of their forces, coupled with their late model Fulcrums, Alamo-C and Alamo-Ds, their Archers, and the sharing of some tech with China...yep...I give them a major military power.

I wouldn't give them MAJOR. I'd give them Military Power status, at the most, but a MAJOR military power is the United States, China, Russia, etc (although not so much Russia anymore). I can think of plenty of armies that are about as good or better than that of the DPRK, and THEY aren't considered Major Military Powers. Examples: South Korea, Pakistan, India, Iran, etc.

Unless, of course, you do not count the United States as a Major Military power, but as something higher. If you didn't, that means the United States Military is as powerful as that of North Korea, and if that were true, then it would be a sad day indeed/

An unholy alliance of the PRC and DPRK means Taiwan, ROK, and Japan don't exist. I think that's coming...but I can't be too sure.

But yes an economy does, in the long-run. If the DPRK and PRC go against ROK, Japan, and Taiwan you can bet the first strike won't be the most covential, especially from teh DPRK. Their No Dongs are not usually equipped with conventional warheads.

If the PRC and DPRK join forces, then you can bet a bunch of cash that the United States will join in on helping Taiwan, ROK, and Japan. And then may come other nations, like India, Pakistan (seeing them on the same side would be quite amusing), etc. Hell, even the Russian would probably help take down the ChiComs.

TLS, I refer you to the following book:

'Kim Jong Il and the Looming Threat of North Korea'
By Jasper Becker.

Do not underestimate the DPRK. Lay is damm right to call them a military power. Their Army, while malnourished, is indoctrinated since birth and believes their hardship to be the fault of the USA and ROK, and only them. Of course dissenssion would spread in a war, but I have no doubt that their Army of over 800,000 would be a formidable foe.

They also have SOF forces in excess of 88,000, the largest SOF forces in the world. They are trained to infiltrate ROK and US bases dressed as ROK and US soldiers, driving their vehicles. They have also attempted to dig tunnels miles into ROK under the DMZ.

The DPRK also has thousands and thousands of Artillery and NBC capable SRM's bunkered down over the DMZ, pre-sighted for a devestating attack on Seoul. However, new systems will allow even the smallest artillery shell to be tracked to its source, and destroyed from the air or sea.

The DPRK is also deficient in its Air Power and most of its armor is seriously outdated. Its Navy, while pretty much rusting away, is large and functions.

Make no bones, the DPRK is a serious military power, and it has to be said, one of the biggest threats to world peace since the Nazis invaded Eastern Europe.

I have irrefutable proof that the DPRK military wouldn't beat the ROK army.

Y'see, I downloaded a Mod for Hearts of Iron II (the Modern Day Scenario, Alpha 1.4.2), and then tried to invade the ROK. My 50 divisions were not match for 32 divisions of the ROK army, and that wasn't even their whole army! Thus meaning, since a mod of a game says its true, it has to be true!

If the PRC and DPRK join forces, then you can bet a bunch of cash that the United States will join in on helping Taiwan, ROK, and Japan. And then may come other nations, like India, Pakistan (seeing them on the same side would be quite amusing), etc. Hell, even the Russian would probably help take down the ChiComs.

The US is required to join in that fight, that is a given. India and Pakistan will probably see it as an opportunity to duke it out with each other. Russia, who knows where they stand. I don't know if they'll side with US or the Chinese, though I am thinking that whole SCO and other things they have puts them with the PRC and DPRK, who knows. That would be the eruption of WWIII, a scenario highly feasible.

I consider the US as a 5th generation military power; Russia as 4th; China as 3.5 - 4; DPRK as 3 - 3.5 just like Iran.

Major = size more or less. The DPRK military is huge.

The US is required to join in that fight, that is a given. India and Pakistan will probably see it as an opportunity to duke it out with each other. Russia, who knows where they stand. I don't know if they'll side with US or the Chinese, though I am thinking that whole SCO and other things they have puts them with the PRC and DPRK, who knows. That would be the eruption of WWIII, a scenario highly feasible.

I consider the US as a 5th generation military power; Russia as 4th; China as 3.5 - 4; DPRK as 3 - 3.5 just like Iran.

Major = size more or less. The DPRK military is huge.

The French Army was huge too. Did that stop it from getting owned by the Wermacht in WWII? No.

Also, the E.U. (at least the UK) would probably join in against the Unholy Alliance as well. And I seriously doubt the U.N. would be thrilled about a massive attempt to wipe out South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan. If Russia doesn't join in to fight the Chinese, it'll at least not support them. But the Russians might see it as a chance to actually win a conflict since 1945. I mean, Czar Vladimir might be looking to expand the borders of the Russian Empire :p

On the Topic of India-Pakistan, I doubt they'd go to war with each other. It's really cooled down over there, and they are both key U.S. allies. Pakistan is also a Chinese ally, so that might mess things up, but I don't think India and Pakistan will start Nuking each other because China decided to invade Japan. However, I still think if WWIII is gonna break out, it'll happen in South Asia. The current situation looks good, however, if some crazy fanatics get control of Pakistan...

*shudders*

I have irrefutable proof that the DPRK military wouldn't beat the ROK army.

Y'see, I downloaded a Mod for Hearts of Iron II (the Modern Day Scenario, Alpha 1.4.2), and then tried to invade the ROK. My 50 divisions were not match for 32 divisions of the ROK army, and that wasn't even their whole army! Thus meaning, since a mod of a game says its true, it has to be true!

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bow to the mighty mod...Were the minefields in it?

Russian military is getting better by day we will have half of troops on a volunteer/contract basis by 2008 plus the pay is growing, if this thing with college and carreer doesn't work out for me i am going back out there. I heard that in some divisions you can actually make a living on the pay they give you.

The French Army was huge too. Did that stop it from getting owned by the Wermacht in WWII? No.

Also, the E.U. (at least the UK) would probably join in against the Unholy Alliance as well. And I seriously doubt the U.N. would be thrilled about a massive attempt to wipe out South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan. If Russia doesn't join in to fight the Chinese, it'll at least not support them. But the Russians might see it as a chance to actually win a conflict since 1945. I mean, Czar Vladimir might be looking to expand the borders of the Russian Empire :p

On the Topic of India-Pakistan, I doubt they'd go to war with each other. It's really cooled down over there, and they are both key U.S. allies. Pakistan is also a Chinese ally, so that might mess things up, but I don't think India and Pakistan will start Nuking each other because China decided to invade Japan. However, I still think if WWIII is gonna break out, it'll happen in South Asia. The current situation looks good, however, if some crazy fanatics get control of Pakistan...

*shudders*

French Army? There was a French Army?

The Russian Empire...the dream of Putin...yum yum...

The entire Pakistani question rests on one point, Musharraf staying in power. If he goes bye bye and a crazy fanatic gets in there, well you and I can just say "Oh shit!"

I think that Pakistan and India would probably each take a side. India has a bigger beef with China, so they might side with us. While all the big boys beat the crap out of each other, there could be a series of coups throughout the middle east and Africa.

Oh and everyone forgot the most important part.

Germany invades France
(1-10 weeks later) France Surrenders

Or else it doesnt count.

I think that Pakistan and India would probably each take a side. India has a bigger beef with China, so they might side with us. While all the big boys beat the crap out of each other, there could be a series of coups throughout the middle east and Africa.

Oh and everyone forgot the most important part.

Germany invades France
(1-10 weeks later) France Surrenders

Or else it doesnt count.

LMFAO!!! Touche!

Actually the chances that the PRC would ally with the DPRK are slim at best.
They have been on a rocky crevice with them for years, especially since Den Xioaping's later years and now Hu Jintao's reign.

The thing is, North Koreans are taught to hate the Chinese. The Juche system in NK never bows to free commerce, the Chinese have done so, and thus people in the DPRK are told they are decadent etc, and that they gave in to the evil capitalist powers, and all that hoo-hah.

I think that the PRC would actually stay out of a conflict between NK and ROK, and anyone else. Or failing that, would actually INVADE NK to take land off them, as the Korean Peninsula was a de-facto Chinese dominion until the mid 19th Century, and the Chinese have some strange views on the place, although their government is seen to support them, this is lukewarm only.

Russia are actually unlikely to support the west against China. For quite a while now they have been courting with each other. Very recently there was a joint Military exercise between Chinese and Russian forces in Northern China near the Russian border. I would expect Russia to actually support China, if not militarily then politically.

The nation we need to watch out for in Asia is not, as most will tell you, China. No, we must watch for India. And since India is a respectable democracy that has military ties with both the US, EU and UK, we should look on with glee. Also, most people in India support the west and see themselves as Western. They dislike the east and they dislike the rise of anti-american culture in Pakistan and the wider Middle East.

In 2010 India will be the most populous country on earth at 1.5 Billion people. Maybe China will be the next superpower (but I doubt it due to underlying resentment of the Communist Party, the want of democracy and the fact that each region has a cultural, ethnic and even national identity of its own. This has the potential to tear the country apart, and probably will at some point), but they will have to watch out for India, which will undoubtedly be the worlds next definite superpower, and it will keep communist nations and terrorist nations in Asia in check.

Actually the chances that the PRC would ally with the DPRK are slim at best.
They have been on a rocky crevice with them for years, especially since Den Xioaping's later years and now Hu Jintao's reign.

The thing is, North Koreans are taught to hate the Chinese. The Juche system in NK never bows to free commerce, the Chinese have done so, and thus people in the DPRK are told they are decadent etc, and that they gave in to the evil capitalist powers, and all that hoo-hah.

I think that the PRC would actually stay out of a conflict between NK and ROK, and anyone else. Or failing that, would actually INVADE NK to take land off them, as the Korean Peninsula was a de-facto Chinese dominion until the mid 19th Century, and the Chinese have some strange views on the place, although their government is seen to support them, this is lukewarm only.

Russia are actually unlikely to support the west against China. For quite a while now they have been courting with each other. Very recently there was a joint Military exercise between Chinese and Russian forces in Northern China near the Russian border. I would expect Russia to actually support China, if not militarily then politically.

The nation we need to watch out for in Asia is not, as most will tell you, China. No, we must watch for India. And since India is a respectable democracy that has military ties with both the US, EU and UK, we should look on with glee. Also, most people in India support the west and see themselves as Western. They dislike the east and they dislike the rise of anti-american culture in Pakistan and the wider Middle East.

In 2010 India will be the most populous country on earth at 1.5 Billion people. Maybe China will be the next superpower (but I doubt it due to underlying resentment of the Communist Party, the want of democracy and the fact that each region has a cultural, ethnic and even national identity of its own. This has the potential to tear the country apart, and probably will at some point), but they will have to watch out for India, which will undoubtedly be the worlds next definite superpower, and it will keep communist nations and terrorist nations in Asia in check.

Honestly as much as the PRC and DPRK have those ideologies. I have a feel it would be advantageous. Attacking ROK, Japan, and Taiwan is three fronts. That is pretty tough to fight for the US and those countries. Hell we allied with Stalin in WWII against Germany and Japan. War makes strange bedfellows.

Actually the chances that the PRC would ally with the DPRK are slim at best.
They have been on a rocky crevice with them for years, especially since Den Xioaping's later years and now Hu Jintao's reign.

The thing is, North Koreans are taught to hate the Chinese. The Juche system in NK never bows to free commerce, the Chinese have done so, and thus people in the DPRK are told they are decadent etc, and that they gave in to the evil capitalist powers, and all that hoo-hah.

I think that the PRC would actually stay out of a conflict between NK and ROK, and anyone else. Or failing that, would actually INVADE NK to take land off them, as the Korean Peninsula was a de-facto Chinese dominion until the mid 19th Century, and the Chinese have some strange views on the place, although their government is seen to support them, this is lukewarm only.

Russia are actually unlikely to support the west against China. For quite a while now they have been courting with each other. Very recently there was a joint Military exercise between Chinese and Russian forces in Northern China near the Russian border. I would expect Russia to actually support China, if not militarily then politically.

The nation we need to watch out for in Asia is not, as most will tell you, China. No, we must watch for India. And since India is a respectable democracy that has military ties with both the US, EU and UK, we should look on with glee. Also, most people in India support the west and see themselves as Western. They dislike the east and they dislike the rise of anti-american culture in Pakistan and the wider Middle East.

In 2010 India will be the most populous country on earth at 1.5 Billion people. Maybe China will be the next superpower (but I doubt it due to underlying resentment of the Communist Party, the want of democracy and the fact that each region has a cultural, ethnic and even national identity of its own. This has the potential to tear the country apart, and probably will at some point), but they will have to watch out for India, which will undoubtedly be the worlds next definite superpower, and it will keep communist nations and terrorist nations in Asia in check.


Errr, last I checked, India had 1 billion people. And that was last estimated this July. I don't think that India will get 500 million people in 5 years. However, it are expected to surpass China in 2030, when it gets a pop of 1.6 billion.

However, that's only if India doesn't manage to get into a Nuclear war, killing off about a half-billion people in the Indian sub-continent.

Anyhoo, on the topic of China vs. U.S., I have a quote for you.
"Jed Eckert: Well, who *is* on our side?
Col. Andrew Tanner: Six hundred million screamin' Chinamen.
Darryl Bates: Well, last I heard, there were a billion screamin' Chinamen.
Col. Andrew Tanner: "There were."

Just ditch the first line, and you'll have what will happen if N00ks go into play.

They have such a huge military and then a huge milita. I mean their AF has like 2,000 MiG-17s still and even MiG-15s. That's all cannon fodder but a lot of it. Drain out the missiles on the sites for the J-8s and J-10s.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bow to the mighty mod...Were the minefields in it?

'Fraid not, 'tis only an Alpha. HOWEVER, there are fortifications, so you could consider those Minefields. (That's how the replicate the Maginot line, after all. And I hafta tell ya, after playing that game, I realised why the Nazi's went around it. I was playing as the Soviets (I decided to do a bit of modding, and made the Soviet Union have control of Germany, Poland, and Finland), and I sent 30 divisions against 1 that was in a province with 10 fortication, representing the Maginot line. I got owned. It took 50 divisions to take it).

In the same thing, when playing as NK, I also decided to Invade, China just for kicks. I got a few border provinces, that were strangely unguarded, but then I got owned.

And THEN I decided to play as the Pakistanis and see what would happen if they allied with China and invaded India. Well, I got control of Kashmir by sending in like 15 divisions, but the Chinese didn't help at all, and all my other offensives bit the dust.

It's not exactly the best way to try and simulate a RL conflict, but it sure is a fun way :D

'Fraid not, 'tis only an Alpha. HOWEVER, there are fortifications, so you could consider those Minefields. (That's how the replicate the Maginot line, after all. And I hafta tell ya, after playing that game, I realised why the Nazi's went around it. I was playing as the Soviets (I decided to do a bit of modding, and made the Soviet Union have control of Germany, Poland, and Finland), and I sent 30 divisions against 1 that was in a province with 10 fortication, representing the Maginot line. I got owned. It took 50 divisions to take it).

In the same thing, when playing as NK, I also decided to Invade, China just for kicks. I got a few border provinces, that were strangely unguarded, but then I got owned.

And THEN I decided to play as the Pakistanis and see what would happen if they allied with China and invaded India. Well, I got control of Kashmir by sending in like 15 divisions, but the Chinese didn't help at all, and all my other offensives bit the dust.

It's not exactly the best way to try and simulate a RL conflict, but it sure is a fun way :D

Yeah that line was serious. Best way was to flank it, which the French never invisioned. The whole strategdy of the Nazis to go through the low countries and isolate the fighting was brilliant. Hell man, good thing about the Dunkirk rescue or else that woulda been it.

Yeah that line was serious. Best way was to flank it, which the French never invisioned. The whole strategdy of the Nazis to go through the low countries and isolate the fighting was brilliant. Hell man, good thing about the Dunkirk rescue or else that woulda been it.

I even flanked it, too. The Maginot line was the last to fall, and I couldn't make France surrender, since it still had overseas provinces, so I couldn't annex it. There was no easy way, so 'twas just send human waves into it until they cracked.

If that was what the Nazi's did, I'm guessing WWII would have ended about...5 years early.

I even flanked it, too. The Maginot line was the last to fall, and I couldn't make France surrender, since it still had overseas provinces, so I couldn't annex it. There was no easy way, so 'twas just send human waves into it until they cracked.

If that was what the Nazi's did, I'm guessing WWII would have ended about...5 years early.

Until 1945, the Wermarcht was the best Army in the world.

In Victoria (earlier version) Verdun is like that. Instead of playing as Germany and having to invade Belgium to go around, I played as Belgium and went around myself. Managed to draw away the troops by making a full advance on Paris.

In Victoria (earlier version) Verdun is like that. Instead of playing as Germany and having to invade Belgium to go around, I played as Belgium and went around myself. Managed to draw away the troops by making a full advance on Paris.


I suck bad at stratedgy games.

Until 1945, the Wermarcht was the best Army in the world.

There wouldn't have been much left of it if it had attacked the Maginot line head on, buddy.

There wouldn't have been much left of it if it had attacked the Maginot line head on, buddy.

They would have used their seriously superior air power on it.

I suck bad at stratedgy games.

*laffs*

I'm not great at them, but I don't suck at them either. I'm kinda like a Jack-of-all-trades gamer. I can do everything, not well, but not badly either.

They would have used their seriously superior air power on it.

The Wermacht didn't have control of the air force. The Luftwaffe did.

I suck bad at stratedgy games.
FPS aren't my strong point. However, im even worse at sports games (i end up trying to kill their good players since I cant win)

The Wermacht didn't have control of the air force. The Luftwaffe did.

Yeah I kinda forgot to just include the whole thing about the Luftwaffe and that...so eh I just meant Germany would have used its superior airpower.

But anyhoo, when I was playing as Mr. Frenchie, I decided "Well, since the Krauts decided to go right past the Maginot line, I'd better extend it!" And that's what I did. Of course, the line bordering Belgium wasn't as good as the one bordering Germany (the Germany one was level 10, the one bordering Belgium was about 3 I think), it was better than nothing.

But anyhoo, when I was playing as Mr. Frenchie, I decided "Well, since the Krauts decided to go right past the Maginot line, I'd better extend it!" And that's what I did. Of course, the line bordering Belgium wasn't as good as the one bordering Germany (the Germany one was level 10, the one bordering Belgium was about 3 I think), it was better than nothing.

Thats like throwing rocks at a tank hoping it'll do something.

Thats like throwing rocks at a tank hoping it'll do something.

Hey, 3 fortification makes the units defend twice as well, methinks. That'll take out more Krauts, at least, before it falls.

Also, enough rocks thrown at a tank might do some damage. Especially if the rocks are on fire. Or explode.

Hey, 3 fortification makes the units defend twice as well, methinks. That'll take out more Krauts, at least, before it falls.

Also, enough rocks thrown at a tank might do some damage. Especially if the rocks are on fire. Or explode.

LMFAO! I can just see it now...

Tank Destroyed by Flaming Rock of Fury!

Hey guys this thread is already added but i'll post the link again:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=458597

All the VCO members plus the TOA members that promised to discuss the non-aggression pact please RP your representative's arrival to Voronej in that thread. For VCO members please bring more then one representative if we can run over one meeting at once this will go by faster. So please arrive. I'll put up the meeting threads once you do.

LMFAO! I can just see it now...

Tank Destroyed by Flaming Rock of Fury!

In the Spirit of our Capitalist economy, I copyright that phrase before you do and charge you $50 for using it without my consent!

Found this great site for PAK-FA

http://www.regnm.ru/_Images/Pdfs/file_1873.pdf

For all you non-Russian speakers i will try to summarize a translation if you're interested. This source seems to be credible.

translate. I didn't even see the site, but I in know way speak russian.

In the Spirit of our Capitalist economy, I copyright that phrase before you do and charge you $50 for using it without my consent!

Let me get my check book. Oh here it is: ,,|,,

Let me get my check book. Oh here it is: ,,|,,

OH NOES! PROFANITIES!!!!!1111111111!!!111!!!11!!!

I have to go to the ACLU! You are discriminating against a minority (I'm a rare minority "Eldest Son of NAS Director in Panama", I don't think there are any others in existance)!!!!!1!1111111111111!!11111!1111111!!!!!!!11!one!11!

translate. I didn't even see the site, but I in know way speak russian.

nvm, nothing knew said there, it talks about variety of projects all through out russian aviation industry both civlian and military and how a proposal of melting all Russian companies into one can benefit or massacre the Russian aviation industry.

Someone apparently constructed a Baltic-White Sea canal a long time ago, does this still exist?

May I inquire as to your interest in the canal Bjornoya? The canal is fully functioning, we haven't halted foreign vessels from using it since we have had it. If a war breaks out, as Pantheaa is threatening, then we will have to reevaluate our policy and may prohibit some nations from using it. Currently only civilian vessels are transversing it with the except of a few of my closest allies being allowed to move naval ships through it.


-Hawdawg

OK, I'm backing the hell away from anything that come close to that one then! I'm challenging you. Prove that the SU-37 is better. Prove it. Let the people of E2, not you and not me, be the judges.

Disclaimer: I do not trust Russian aircraft, subs, tanks, ships, vehicles, trains, anything which have to do with Russia (except vodka and AKs)! I just don't trust that shit.

Was my asnwer to your challenge satsifactory? SU-37 is faster, more maneuvarable and has a greater combat range and it is the first Russian plane with decent avionics. It is a better plane and Lay is wrong SU-37 is a 4+ generation plane just the same as the Eurofighter.

There is no need to argue about which Fighter is better. The true dynamic that isn't being considered is the pilot. You could have the most complete combat airframe out with 7,000 hardpoints, Mach 7 speed, etc., but without a pilot that is highly skilled, you might as well be sending up someone in an ultralight with a spitball gun. ALL planes have quirky things about them people would want to change, unless you design something on your own, or use something from Soviet Bloc.

**shameless plug**

Seriously check out his newest creations on lineartinc, its amazing looking stuff.


-Hawdawg

Hook me up with a link please

Unification Day Has Begun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are coming, please go be there!

Was my asnwer to your challenge satsifactory? SU-37 is faster, more maneuvarable and has a greater combat range and it is the first Russian plane with decent avionics. It is a better plane and Lay is wrong SU-37 is a 4+ generation plane just the same as the Eurofighter.
Not really. You basically just listed a bunch of numbers and said "aha! The SU-37 is better!" Sorry mack, but you'll have to do better than that. Besides, I'm not the one to be the judge, the good people of E2 are.

Not really. You basically just listed a bunch of numbers and said "aha! The SU-37 is better!" Sorry mack, but you'll have to do better than that. Besides, I'm not the one to be the judge, the good people of E2 are.

Question: Why do you even care? I know nothing about tech in any way, so I might not be the best judge, but doesn't arguement about "is this good enough" and "wtf?! the sucks, @&#$%! you &*@$%#!" just spoil reasonably good RP? Why can't you just say "ok, fine, I don't think that's right, but I'll take your word on this one".

I don't really care and I might just be getting in the way, but I'm still curious.;)

Hook me up with a link please

Soviet Bloc Link (http://s6.invisionfree.com/International_Mall/index.php?showforum=64)

Lineart Link (http://s13.invisionfree.com/LineartInc/index.php?act=idx)


You have to register to log onto lineart forum.


-Hawdawg

May I inquire as to your interest in the canal Bjornoya? The canal is fully functioning, we haven't halted foreign vessels from using it since we have had it. If a war breaks out, as Pantheaa is threatening, then we will have to reevaluate our policy and may prohibit some nations from using it. Currently only civilian vessels are transversing it with the except of a few of my closest allies being allowed to move naval ships through it.


-Hawdawg

Yes, I am slightly concerned of an attack on the Bjornoyan homeland from this route (if I could shoot the ships as they entered or exited the canal it would be a massacre, but depends on Hawdawg regulations in the region), but also want to use it to make another outrageous claim in my 'Who is Patriarch sedaht Rand?' thread, something like he swam the whole length, but I think that's a bit much so I'll say he kayaked the canal in a short period of time if that's OK.

Was my asnwer to your challenge satsifactory? SU-37 is faster, more maneuvarable and has a greater combat range and it is the first Russian plane with decent avionics. It is a better plane and Lay is wrong SU-37 is a 4+ generation plane just the same as the Eurofighter.

The radar signature of the Flanker is more than the following non-stealth aircraft:

B-1A
F-16 Fighting Falcon
B-1B Lancer
F-18E/F Super Hornet
Rafale
Typhoon

The B-1A was made in the late 1970s and early 1980s. The F-16 was made in the same time span. The B-1B is mid-80s. The F-18E/F is late 90s. The Rafale and Typhoon are both 21st century.

The Flanker does have a lot more speed and is very agile but its engines use up insideous amounts of fuel and in order for the Flanker to be seriously agile it cannot carry a full fuel load (which is well over 20,000 pounds) seriously limiting its range. In addition, Russian air to air missiles produce so much drag that the engines HAVE to be overpowered to counter the effects. This is the same reason why the F-16 does not carry the AIM-9M on its wingtips. The canards produce insidious amounts of drag. The AIM-120 has far less drag than the AIM-9M, hence why the -120 is carried on the wingtips. The R-73 Archer has as much drag as the -9M if not more.

In addition both the Su-35 and the Su-37 are not in service nor do they appear to have any future. The Su-34 is in LRIP and expected to be IOC in 2008. The Su-33 is in service but the carrier fleet of Russia has never been too friendly to fighters of seriousness, the Kuznetsov being more of a medium carrier than a heavy carrier. The Su-30 has some amazingly advanced and deadly versions (MKI for example) but once again, it pales in the categories. It does have the thrust vector advantage and aside from the Su-33 it is the only Flanker than can refuel inflight but as the reasons above, it cannot do what it is meant to with a full weapons or fuel load. It is a shame, the Flankers have the most potential out of any Russian fighter but they are hampered too much by simple problems which can easily be fixed. Although, to their credit, the Russians realized drag when they built the R-77, which has far less drag than any missile they have.

www.acig.org has some amazing discussions about many aircraft and www.vnfawing.com had some great discussions about aircraft. There are a lot of pilots on both places. In fact on one of them, an A-7 pilot said he hated carrying AIM-9s because of their drag levels. He was the one who showed me how draggy the Russian counterparts were. The R-27s are pretty draggy too (bulky canards are bad). www.aerospaceweb.org has a great reference section too with an "Ask a Scientist" section. You can find out how radars work, laser, how airfoils work, how missiles work, how they are jammed, tons of information.

Also the AIM-120 has "clipped" wings not just because of carriage in the F-22 but because the large canards of the AIM-120A had a lot of drag (same with the AIM-7, hence why they were always recessed on the bottom of aircraft (F-14, F-4, F-15).

The Earth II Spreadsheet & maps have moved. If you have them bookmarked please update accordingly. They are changed on the actual posts.

www.theforsakenoutlaw.com

Check it out men, new site...with all my indigenous projects

some sections are still "under construction."

Guys, let's put our differences aside for a moment and laugh at this fat kid.

This seriously had me laughing my ass off for over 15 minutes straight.

http://www.20six.fr/pub/bopperenlarme/fat_kid_dancing.gif

Guys, let's put our differences aside for a moment and laugh at this fat kid.

This seriously had me laughing my ass off for over 15 minutes straight.

http://www.20six.fr/pub/bopperenlarme/fat_kid_dancing.gif

I am still pissing myself...

umm, it isnt found

umm, it isnt found

refresh it.

nope, nothing. But any dancing fat kid is funny (or any dancing white kid for that matter)

nope, nothing. But any dancing fat kid is funny (or any dancing white kid for that matter)
Check Laksevag please.

The radar signature of the Flanker is more than the following non-stealth aircraft:

B-1A
F-16 Fighting Falcon
B-1B Lancer
F-18E/F Super Hornet
Rafale
Typhoon

The B-1A was made in the late 1970s and early 1980s. The F-16 was made in the same time span. The B-1B is mid-80s. The F-18E/F is late 90s. The Rafale and Typhoon are both 21st century.

The Flanker does have a lot more speed and is very agile but its engines use up insideous amounts of fuel and in order for the Flanker to be seriously agile it cannot carry a full fuel load (which is well over 20,000 pounds) seriously limiting its range. In addition, Russian air to air missiles produce so much drag that the engines HAVE to be overpowered to counter the effects. This is the same reason why the F-16 does not carry the AIM-9M on its wingtips. The canards produce insidious amounts of drag. The AIM-120 has far less drag than the AIM-9M, hence why the -120 is carried on the wingtips. The R-73 Archer has as much drag as the -9M if not more.

In addition both the Su-35 and the Su-37 are not in service nor do they appear to have any future. The Su-34 is in LRIP and expected to be IOC in 2008. The Su-33 is in service but the carrier fleet of Russia has never been too friendly to fighters of seriousness, the Kuznetsov being more of a medium carrier than a heavy carrier. The Su-30 has some amazingly advanced and deadly versions (MKI for example) but once again, it pales in the categories. It does have the thrust vector advantage and aside from the Su-33 it is the only Flanker than can refuel inflight but as the reasons above, it cannot do what it is meant to with a full weapons or fuel load. It is a shame, the Flankers have the most potential out of any Russian fighter but they are hampered too much by simple problems which can easily be fixed. Although, to their credit, the Russians realized drag when they built the R-77, which has far less drag than any missile they have.

www.acig.org has some amazing discussions about many aircraft and www.vnfawing.com had some great discussions about aircraft. There are a lot of pilots on both places. In fact on one of them, an A-7 pilot said he hated carrying AIM-9s because of their drag levels. He was the one who showed me how draggy the Russian counterparts were. The R-27s are pretty draggy too (bulky canards are bad). www.aerospaceweb.org has a great reference section too with an "Ask a Scientist" section. You can find out how radars work, laser, how airfoils work, how missiles work, how they are jammed, tons of information.

Also the AIM-120 has "clipped" wings not just because of carriage in the F-22 but because the large canards of the AIM-120A had a lot of drag (same with the AIM-7, hence why they were always recessed on the bottom of aircraft (F-14, F-4, F-15).

If you noticed the statistics the Flanker actually has larger range then the Typhoon. According to Jane's Aircraft recognition guide SU-34 is already in service with Russia, SU-37 you are correct is not yet in service. Even though its radar signature is smaller Typhoon is not a stealth aircraft (plus can i hear a source for the claim that SU-37 has a larger signature? It does uses composite materials for a lot of airframe.) an SU-37 pilot will be able to lock on to it. SU-37 got speed, range, and maneuvarability. I am yet to hear what Typhoon has that will give it a definite age. American missiles? That is not a definite edge.

Sort of related to the whole fighter debate above, but my new backbone fighter will be the (not in service yet for several reasons) Hindustan LCA.

If you noticed the statistics the Flanker actually has larger range then the Typhoon. According to Jane's Aircraft recognition guide SU-34 is already in service with Russia, SU-37 you are correct is not yet in service. Even though its radar signature is smaller Typhoon is not a stealth aircraft (plus can i hear a source for the claim that SU-37 has a larger signature? It does uses composite materials for a lot of airframe.) an SU-37 pilot will be able to lock on to it. SU-37 got speed, range, and maneuvarability. I am yet to hear what Typhoon has that will give it a definite age. American missiles? That is not a definite edge.

Well the Typhoon will employ the IRIS-T and ASRAAM, which are the top generation AAMs, IIR with TV, and very agile. It will also have the AIM-120D when it goes to service with a 110km range and all of the ECCM features of the AIM-120C plus more. It will feature datalink as well and offer the whole radar that the AIM-120C has, which only goes active when it is terminal, meaning no RWR warning until the missile is actually terminal (when its too late to evade). It will also have the Meteor, which is an AMRAAM on serious steroids. They list the range was 100km+ and it is probably almost 150km in range, that missile is very powerful, it is everything the AMRAAM should be and uses the features of the AMRAAM (radar and ECCM) in it. In ways it could even be superior to the AMRAAM

Yes the Typhoon is plagued by short range. However, with a full fuel load and a full air to air load it is far more agile than a Su-37 with a full fuel load and a full air to air load. The Su-37 has to sacrifice fuel to gain its full agility, which can beat out the Typhoon, yes, but at diminished fuel, which will severely hamper its range. It'll probably still be more than the Typhoon but not much.

The presence of composites on the Su-37 will lower its signature far less than the previous Flankers but its airframe still resembles the Flankers (exposed fan blade intakes, non-recessed weapons, large vertical tales) which all contribute heavily to RCS. The Flankers beat out the F-4 and the F-15 as far as RCS does and I think they are on par with the F-18C/D.

According to Sukhoi in 2004 though the LRIP of the Su-34 began and first squadron IOC (initial operation capability i.e. combat ready) is 2008. The F-22 was in service for a while not but until a few days ago it was not combat-ready, which is what IOC means. Su-34 is probably the best thing they could do to replace the aging Su-24s and it is pretty damn nice (I love the side-by-side cockpit). It will not sacrifice agility and it will be as powerful as the other Flankers. Hopefully between now and then they will add some RCS-reducing measures to it though.

And yes American missiles are an advantage. The top IR missile in US is the AIM-9X (IIR, TV, most agile missile in the world). It is a low-drag missile with range around 10 mi, offers the whole 90° off-boresight, HMS, and can take down an F-4 in one shot (that's a beast of an a/c). The top IR in Russia is the R-73 (IR, TV, very agile). The problem lies in its drag factor, only 60° off-boresight, it is HMS (good), and it does quote a much longer range than the AIM-9X (20km+ IIRC) but whether or not it will be able to track an aircraft out that far is something of question. The biggest flaw is the seeker. Passive-IR (which has been in existence since the first AIM-4s) is vulnerable to flares, albeit the most modern missiles (Python 4, AIM-9M, R-73) do have some resistance, they are still vulnerable. Imaging IR, which is used on the AGM-65D/G is immune to flares and can only be disrupted by good jamming. Helicopters carry IR jamming, the Su-39 carries it, the MiG-27 carried it, and the Su-34 may carry it (not known yet). Unfortunately that won't really confuse the IIR missiles much, just agitate them. The advantage of IIR also is that it can see through clouds, smoke, haze, and dust VERY well.

The AIM-120 vs. R-77 debate is a good one as well. The R-77 does have a longer range, may include a passive seeker, and does have a bigger warhead, which give it advantages over the AIM-120. However, the AIM-120 (and I mean C version) has probably the best ECCM in the world and the best radar system in the world (C-7, which is the most advanced AIM-120C in service). The AIM-120C-5 and AIM-120C-6 both have better ECCM and AR than the R-77. Manueverability between the two is of question. The R-77 could probably take out a 12G target and the AIM-120, maybe 10G or 11G, it isn't published. The R-77 is also only qualified on the Su-33, Su-34, Su-35, and the Su-30M(KK/KI). The -120 is qualified on the F-16, F-15, F-22, F-18, which is quantity-wise, more than the Su's. The MiG-29S can also carry the R-77. Most of the Russian AF can't use the R-77, a problem they are working on. The D version of the -120 will offer the whole datalink (which when used with the F-15 or F-22 or F-18E/F will allow the pilot to actually shot multiple missiles, at multiple targets, guide each one until terminal), an advantage over the R-77. Midcourse guidance of the -120 allow this. The R-77 is inertia guided until it gets to 20km when it goes active. The -120 goes active around 10 - 15. The D version will also be 110km (vs. 90km for the R-77). If the R-77M1 goes into service that is 175km. Whether or not it can get that far is a question. For example, the R-27 missiles claim ranges of 130km for the C and D (RE/TE) versions but were never really feasible past 50km really, a major shortcoming which made the R-24 actually better than the R-27 because it was solid out to 35km.

The Meteor, as I said before, is the -120 on crack. It really has great potential and I wish we were importing it for the F-22 but DOD being as stubborn as it is. As far as other missiles, the IRIS-T may actually be more agile than the AIM-9X. The ASRAAM is on par with the -9X, though a little less in some aspects. The Python 4, until the introduction of the -9X was the best dogfight AAM in the world. The Python 5, which is a Python 4 with IIR and some improvements, may actually be better than the -9X. Nobody knows yet. Both the -9X and the Python 5 offer "lock-on, after-launch" which means that the fighter can fire the missile, bank away, and the missile will lock onto a target afterwards, which would allow the fighter to remain stealthy. The ASRAAM also has this. The -9X, for now is done for in terms of updates or anything. The IRIS-T and the Python 5 will be real rivals to the -9X and I really look forward to seeing the results to their action tests.

If you check any of the sources I listed, especially ACIG, you can find excellent data on the Su-37.

Yes, I am slightly concerned of an attack on the Bjornoyan homeland from this route (if I could shoot the ships as they entered or exited the canal it would be a massacre, but depends on Hawdawg regulations in the region), but also want to use it to make another outrageous claim in my 'Who is Patriarch sedaht Rand?' thread, something like he swam the whole length, but I think that's a bit much so I'll say he kayaked the canal in a short period of time if that's OK.

Shooting missiles into my airspace would be a definite no-no. Friend or foe trying to destroy the canal or vessels in it regardless of nationality would constitute an act of war and would prompt an almost immediate response.

I don't mind having the Patriach kayak the canal, however remember the canal has a system of locks in it that he would have to transverse.


-Hawdawg

This is for anyone who's been following my election campaign (the real thing won't happen until maybe June of next year):

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=459819

Created a new puppet to represent a new faction. It's the Roman Muslim leader who's running as the "third option" from the incumbent Rodin Hartian and the recently announced rival Consul Gnaeus Valerius Maderia.

Well the Typhoon will employ the IRIS-T and ASRAAM, which are the top generation AAMs, IIR with TV, and very agile. It will also have the AIM-120D when it goes to service with a 110km range and all of the ECCM features of the AIM-120C plus more. It will feature datalink as well and offer the whole radar that the AIM-120C has, which only goes active when it is terminal, meaning no RWR warning until the missile is actually terminal (when its too late to evade). It will also have the Meteor, which is an AMRAAM on serious steroids. They list the range was 100km+ and it is probably almost 150km in range, that missile is very powerful, it is everything the AMRAAM should be and uses the features of the AMRAAM (radar and ECCM) in it. In ways it could even be superior to the AMRAAM

Yes the Typhoon is plagued by short range. However, with a full fuel load and a full air to air load it is far more agile than a Su-37 with a full fuel load and a full air to air load. The Su-37 has to sacrifice fuel to gain its full agility, which can beat out the Typhoon, yes, but at diminished fuel, which will severely hamper its range. It'll probably still be more than the Typhoon but not much.

The presence of composites on the Su-37 will lower its signature far less than the previous Flankers but its airframe still resembles the Flankers (exposed fan blade intakes, non-recessed weapons, large vertical tales) which all contribute heavily to RCS. The Flankers beat out the F-4 and the F-15 as far as RCS does and I think they are on par with the F-18C/D.

According to Sukhoi in 2004 though the LRIP of the Su-34 began and first squadron IOC (initial operation capability i.e. combat ready) is 2008. The F-22 was in service for a while not but until a few days ago it was not combat-ready, which is what IOC means. Su-34 is probably the best thing they could do to replace the aging Su-24s and it is pretty damn nice (I love the side-by-side cockpit). It will not sacrifice agility and it will be as powerful as the other Flankers. Hopefully between now and then they will add some RCS-reducing measures to it though.

And yes American missiles are an advantage. The top IR missile in US is the AIM-9X (IIR, TV, most agile missile in the world). It is a low-drag missile with range around 10 mi, offers the whole 90° off-boresight, HMS, and can take down an F-4 in one shot (that's a beast of an a/c). The top IR in Russia is the R-73 (IR, TV, very agile). The problem lies in its drag factor, only 60° off-boresight, it is HMS (good), and it does quote a much longer range than the AIM-9X (20km+ IIRC) but whether or not it will be able to track an aircraft out that far is something of question. The biggest flaw is the seeker. Passive-IR (which has been in existence since the first AIM-4s) is vulnerable to flares, albeit the most modern missiles (Python 4, AIM-9M, R-73) do have some resistance, they are still vulnerable. Imaging IR, which is used on the AGM-65D/G is immune to flares and can only be disrupted by good jamming. Helicopters carry IR jamming, the Su-39 carries it, the MiG-27 carried it, and the Su-34 may carry it (not known yet). Unfortunately that won't really confuse the IIR missiles much, just agitate them. The advantage of IIR also is that it can see through clouds, smoke, haze, and dust VERY well.

The AIM-120 vs. R-77 debate is a good one as well. The R-77 does have a longer range, may include a passive seeker, and does have a bigger warhead, which give it advantages over the AIM-120. However, the AIM-120 (and I mean C version) has probably the best ECCM in the world and the best radar system in the world (C-7, which is the most advanced AIM-120C in service). The AIM-120C-5 and AIM-120C-6 both have better ECCM and AR than the R-77. Manueverability between the two is of question. The R-77 could probably take out a 12G target and the AIM-120, maybe 10G or 11G, it isn't published. The R-77 is also only qualified on the Su-33, Su-34, Su-35, and the Su-30M(KK/KI). The -120 is qualified on the F-16, F-15, F-22, F-18, which is quantity-wise, more than the Su's. The MiG-29S can also carry the R-77. Most of the Russian AF can't use the R-77, a problem they are working on. The D version of the -120 will offer the whole datalink (which when used with the F-15 or F-22 or F-18E/F will allow the pilot to actually shot multiple missiles, at multiple targets, guide each one until terminal), an advantage over the R-77. Midcourse guidance of the -120 allow this. The R-77 is inertia guided until it gets to 20km when it goes active. The -120 goes active around 10 - 15. The D version will also be 110km (vs. 90km for the R-77). If the R-77M1 goes into service that is 175km. Whether or not it can get that far is a question. For example, the R-27 missiles claim ranges of 130km for the C and D (RE/TE) versions but were never really feasible past 50km really, a major shortcoming which made the R-24 actually better than the R-27 because it was solid out to 35km.

The Meteor, as I said before, is the -120 on crack. It really has great potential and I wish we were importing it for the F-22 but DOD being as stubborn as it is. As far as other missiles, the IRIS-T may actually be more agile than the AIM-9X. The ASRAAM is on par with the -9X, though a little less in some aspects. The Python 4, until the introduction of the -9X was the best dogfight AAM in the world. The Python 5, which is a Python 4 with IIR and some improvements, may actually be better than the -9X. Nobody knows yet. Both the -9X and the Python 5 offer "lock-on, after-launch" which means that the fighter can fire the missile, bank away, and the missile will lock onto a target afterwards, which would allow the fighter to remain stealthy. The ASRAAM also has this. The -9X, for now is done for in terms of updates or anything. The IRIS-T and the Python 5 will be real rivals to the -9X and I really look forward to seeing the results to their action tests.

If you check any of the sources I listed, especially ACIG, you can find excellent data on the Su-37.

You know what you and everyone else should check out?

www.airwar.ru that site won awards i didn't look at the english version but there is one. Click on the UK flag on the main page. It has articles, footage, referandums, information, pictures on every aircraft in the east and west as well as history of world aviation, air dominance tactics and plane tutorials. Check it out.

Well you can't really judge how well an aircraft is just by the missiles it carries. I mean i am sure that atleast one of the firmly 4th generation fighters
from the west (F-16, 15, 18, etc.) can carry the AIM-120 series missiles. Both Typhoon and SU-37 do have advantages over one another but SU-37 is superior because its structural advantages are what matters most in an air fight.

-EDIT-

Just checked the english version don't think anything is missing from it compared to the Russian version.

You know what you and everyone else should check out?

www.airwar.ru that site won awards i didn't look at the english version but there is one. Click on the UK flag on the main page. It has articles, footage, referandums, information, pictures on every aircraft in the east and west as well as history of world aviation, air dominance tactics and plane tutorials. Check it out.

Well you can't really judge how well an aircraft is just by the missiles it carries. I mean i am sure that atleast one of the firmly 4th generation fighters
from the west (F-16, 15, 18, etc.) can carry the AIM-120 series missiles. Both Typhoon and SU-37 do have advantages over one another but SU-37 is superior because its structural advantages are what matters most in an air fight.

-EDIT-

Just checked the english version don't think anything is missing from it compared to the Russian version.

I've been to that site more times than I can count. Venik has a great site with stats on Russian aircraft as well, some of the best stats ever, I've used them also on many, many, many, occassions. And structural advantages don't really mean as much as you think in a dogfight. The F-4 had every advantage over the MiG-17 but it was taken down in numbers because of hampered rules of engagement and missile mentality. When they installed the gun on the F-4 it came back. The F-105 was a tank and a half but ground-fire tore them to shreads and they weren't too great in dogfights either. When it comes to BVR combat, stealth matters, where the Typhoon has the edge on the Su-37. When it comes to dogfights, it matters which pilot is better more or less. The advantages of the Su-37 are is serious thrust and TV, both of which can top the Typhoon. However, you never know. Missiles mean a lot. If the Su-37 is on the Typhoon's 3 o'clock and the Typhoon has an AIM-9X, it'll be able to get a lock and fire, quite effectively and smash the Su-37, whereas it can only get it around 2 o'clock. If it has the IRIS-T it can probably get a little better than 90°, perhaps 128° which is uncertain at the moment, that's why I want to see the whole reports when they come out.

All 4th generation fighters carry the AIM-120. And if you compare the last major air battle, which was in Iraq, you had fourth generation against fourth and third generation. The MiG-29s did absolutely horribly and the only actual air to air kill by the Iraqis was with a MiG-25 firing at an F-18C with an IR guided AA-6. Most of the kills were made with AIM-9L and AIM-7M missiles, which weren't top of the line at the time. The AIM-120A reached IOC in '92 and the AIM-9M was IOC in 1983. By the time ODS came out the AIM-9M-7 was out, which was far better than the -9L or original -9M. When faced with the AIM-120C (Kosovo) MiG-29s went down pretty fast.

Missiles matter quite a lot nowadays since the last gunfight was most likely either in the 1980s with Israel over Lebanon or in the Iran-Iraq War.

Although of considerable note. One Iraqi MiG-25 evaded 6 AIM-120C missiles and 4 AIM-54 missiles, mainly because it was at 80,000 feet, moving at M2.8, and all the shots were tail shots.

What about them Russian pilot helmets that increase the possible lock on angle?

Answer to your F-22 Question: The F-22 has so little drag because of a few methods. In the early 1960s and late 1950s, two aircraft (F-102 and F-106) came out and carried only internal weapons. They had two external drop tanks. This was done to limit drag. The F-104 also had VERY little drag. This is done by having a very smooth fuselage, streamlined. The presence of the split tails in the back help a lot. When not carrying any external tanks, the F-22 has very little drag. This is also a factor in its seriously unprecidented acceleration. Because all of its missiles and weapons (the biggest problems to drag) are carried internally, nothing is there to slow it down. The plane was built with stealth, speed, and agility in mind (structurally). The aircraft is regarded as the fastest AC in the US military, the SR-71 being retired. This means something very interesting. The F-15C is quoted at Mach 2.5. If the F-22 is the fastest, it must go faster than this, perhaps Mach 2.7. Usually, as been noticied, the figures that the US DOD publishes for their top speeds are less than capable. F-4s were quoted at Mach 2.27 but one actually broke like Mach 2.4 chasing an Egyptian MiG-25, which went to Mach 3.2. It just outran the F-4. Unfortunately the MiG-25 landed and its engines had to be replaced because the M3.2 just wasted them. The F-15 could go to around 1,800 mph if it had to (Mach 2.8-ish, same as the sustained MiG-25 speed, no surprise, the F-15 was built to intercept the MiG-25) and certainly the SR-71 was quoted at Mach 3.35 but could have approached and may have Mach 3.5 but its missions are still classified, for the most part. One was rumored to be flying at Mach 3.35 at 128,000 feet over China during its first nuclear bomb test.

http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/RAFAQ/MiG-25.html

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the F-106 and F-102 were actually very stealthy for their time (probably had a lower RCS than the F-4 and F-15) because they carried their weapons internally (weapons add to RCS big-time). The heavy drag and RCS of the AIM-7 prompted the F-4 to carry the missiles half recessed, which severely limited drag and did lower its otherwise gigantic RCS. The F-14 and F-15 followed suite. When the AIM-120A came out it had the same fins as the AIM-7 and thus was just as bad in those respects. When the AIM-120B came out they introduced the shorter wings, which is why the F-16s carry them instead of the AIM-9 on its wingtips, although now with the AIM-9X they can go back to carrying a Sidewinder there. As a side note, I would introduce the F-106 to my service (The F-102 was pitiful and was a joke, F-106 was like F-102+ but it was a whole new a/c so it was a whole new designation) but they aren't very viable for NS-tech. Hell I doubt I could WANK a F-106 to survive 8 minutes in a modern dogfight lol. Oh man I could go on for hours about how great the F-106 was. They really put good effort into that SOB.

What about them Russian pilot helmets that increase the possible lock on angle?

HMS is great in that it allows the pilot to turn his head and get a lock-on and not the aircraft but its still limited to the off-boresight capability of the missile. If the aircraft is point 0° the HMS can allow the missile to go out and hit at 60° or 300° for the R-73. Now if you turn the aircraft you can obviously gain or lose more from either side, depending on the way you turn. You can also uncage a seeker and allow it to pick up its own target but that is dangerous (fraticide possibility). The advantage on the AIM-9X is that it goes 90° off-boresight. The IRIS-T is rumored to be perhaps 128° along with the ASRAAM but neither have shown this capability, yet...AIM-9Xs in tests (god I wish I still had that video, stupid Raytheon and their copyright) had them taking out QF-4s at 90° with F-18s and F-15s. They had some amazing footage in it.

FOUND THE VIDEO!!!
http://www.raytheon.com/products/stellent/groups/public/documents/content/cms01_054519.wmv

Check it out...made by Raytheon in testing...that missile does some crazy shit. I like how it fires straight at first and then suddenly banks (lock-on and launch).

There a few good shots. You can see a slow-mo where the missile winds up on the F-15s left side. Another one they hit a target like directly below them. Another shot this QF-4 passes by the aircraft and they fire and blow it up.

Also you can see in the FLIR shots just how IIR sees a target. It's very nice.

General announcement thread:

United Republics of Eastern Siberia formed (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=459840)

Pushka there is something you never mentioned about your Flankers and it just dawned on me. Ruggedness. Those things are about as tough as the A-6 and F-14. A-6s came back home without pieces of their wing or tail and F-14s well, they own the sky. The Flankers are probably the most rugged aircraft in Russia, certainly on par with the Tornado (although its very vulnerable to ground fire) and probably as tough if not tougher than the F-15C. Taking down a Flanker requires a lot more than a weak shot. Honestly, I don't know if the 16 pound warhead on the R-73 could take one down if it was a mere proximity hit.

Hey Lay, NG and Lux please reply at the Voronej Cooperation Organization Congrees. Lay you already put the link up on the first page.

Already done.

Rome-You do enjoy making things difficult dont you? Well your election will probably bring out more about the different political groups (not parties since there aren't elections) in Elephantum. al-Tabin and Madiera are probably most liked by the average people, although many in the government support Hartian.

I will put up some big thing about my political groups later this week hopefully, however it is the big Christmas (yes I said Christmas, sue me) crunch, so it may be on hold for a bit.

EDIT-VCO members, please make sure we have at least embassies in each others nations, i think that would be helpful.

Y'ALL GO POST IN UNIFICATION DAY

Well, then I need a lot of embassies built.

The Typhoon wont be using Raytheon missiles it will be using the Meteor missile build by MBDA.

Final division - Australia

Cotland
New South Wales
Queensland
Northern Territory
Australian Capital Territory

North Germania
South Australia
Victoria

Psychotica
Western Australia
Tasmania

Also, I'm occupying Coral Sea Islands, Christmas Island and Norfolk Island. And that's the end of Operation Radau. You can take it off the RP list now Lay.

"Increased military buildup in Murmansk"

Oslo (Aftenposten) - Prime Minister Rothsky said in his address to the Storting earlier today that the Government intends to increase the military presence in Murmansk. Among others, the Government wish to reinforce the five brigades in the area with an additional four brigades, another two airwings and more naval units, as well as the construction of a brand new base for the October Alliance. The Prime Minister said that "the events that had occured in the past weeks have shown that the northern areas are not well enough defended" and that "a new base, staffed by forces from both Norway and also allies from the October Alliance is what is needed to maintain a credible defense of the northern areas."

From what we've gathered, construction work has already begun at an as of yet undisclosed location, and that it will be able to maintain among others naval vessels and substantial air units, among others strategic bombers. While spokespersons from the Ministry of Defense have refused to comment the units or the location of the base, they say that it will be operational within a year. Is this a sign of renewed tentions towards the Voronej Cooperation Organization, or is it simply yet another sign of the Rothsky-administration's plans of maintaining Norway as a superpower in the world?

Professor in Political Studies at the University of Oslo, Fredrik Mikkelsen says that the buildup is "a direct consequence of the incident in the Kara Sea earlier this month." His reasons for the buildup are that "the Rothsky-administration has realized what so few previous administrations have realized: that the northern areas are critical to our survival as a nation, and that they must be defended at all costs" in order to prevent a disaster, both an economical and a moral disaster. Professor Mikkelsen continues by saying that "should the northern areas fall, we're screwed."

His beliefs that this move is a good one is supported by 74% of the people we asked after the speech was made. 20% didn't like it, while 6% weren't sure if they liked it or not, with a total of 1,023 people asked. Clearly, the majority of the people are positive to the idea. However, how our neighboring nations (Hawdawg, Bjornoya and Russia) will react to this buildup is left to be seen.

Non-Published Report: Bjornoyan Response to TOA Military Build-up in Murmansk

The Patriarch showed minor concern over the build-up, but such was to be expected. Production of military related vehicles, arms, and devices from Visara have sky-rocketed since the Kara Sea incident. AA sites across the Bjornoyan homeland have nearly tripled, and extensive communications/reconaisance system created by Visara is being expanded. More military forces have been sent to Bjornoyan Africa as well.

Along with the production of the standard military equitment, Visara has released a new military AT rifle. Using extremely volatile azides stabilized by the only known azide stablizer created by Visara, Abolethine, the rifle would consist of two members, one having a high-precision laser the other with the main weapon. The bullets, capable of penetrating 32-42 inches of armor at the perpendicular depending on the composites. The bullet itself would be a 'smart bullet' of sorts, capable of re-adjusting its path slightly in slight towards its target designated by the laser. Made of slight-weight composites, a sophisticated light-sensitive guidance system, and tipped with DU, the bullets cost nearly 500 geld a piece. The Janda-2010 AT rifle is still in Beta form, but if proven could drastically reduce the efficiency of MBTs.

ooc: first attempt to create new weapon, worried about specifics, will probably change. My nation spends more money on education than defense, so my army is allowed to be much higher tech than normal so long as it fits in boundaries, and I saw self-guided bullets are being tested on History Channel maybe?, or one of those channels. Also, this is not published so the invention is not known yet, but patents for substances are open for public at Visara Co.

Russian Federation statement concerning military build-up in Murmansk

We do not understand why this build up is neccessary in light of a non-aggression pact our alliances are about to sign. That is our position. I will order increased presence of Russian Federation troops along the border with Murmansk atleast until the signing of the non-aggression pact.

President of Russian Federation,
Vladimir Ivanov

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Secret IC

Vladimir was on the phone with the Russian Federation missile control.

Vladimir: Contact R/C-R get information from them about the location of the new base and target it with a nuke. I want results in 2 months. This is all.

Very Important Notice

I'm going to keep this short and sweet, I'm leaving nationstates. I don't know how its going to work, but my territories can go up for immediate free claim. This comes in with immediate effect.

Goodbye, and thanks :)

Sorry to see you go, but someone has to start dividing up whats now available.

I'll start by grabbing Quebec, the smidgen of antarctica, and the pacific lands (most of which will go to little nations later)

Bummer, man. Never actually RP'ed with you, but pity to see you go. On the other side of things, I'd like to, if possible, claim your African territories - I'll RP for them.

Anyway, me and Neuvo Rico reached a deal:

He pays me 475 billion dollars and gets my part of Antartica, and we sign a Free Trade Agreements, cancelling tariffs between us.

Very Important Notice

I'm going to keep this short and sweet, I'm leaving nationstates. I don't know how its going to work, but my territories can go up for immediate free claim. This comes in with immediate effect.

Goodbye, and thanks :)

Wow okay! Um we should talk but in the event that I can't change your mind:

I claim Quebec, Ontario, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia.

Lay, I think Elephantum already did, before you (Quebec).

Lay, I think Elephantum already did, before you (Quebec).

Yeah, lol he posted as I was typing it I guess.

I'll also claim Southhampton Island, Coats Island, Prince Edward Island, and Mansel Island.

The Typhoon wont be using Raytheon missiles it will be using the Meteor missile build by MBDA.

The UK will not only have just the Meteor. Sale of the AIM-120D is scheduled to go to the UK once they become available.

Elephantum, please check your TG.

Question: Why do you even care? I know nothing about tech in any way, so I might not be the best judge, but doesn't arguement about "is this good enough" and "wtf?! the sucks, @&#$%! you &*@$%#!" just spoil reasonably good RP? Why can't you just say "ok, fine, I don't think that's right, but I'll take your word on this one".

I don't really care and I might just be getting in the way, but I'm still curious.;)

Still wondering...can be addressed to anyone...who was arguing...

Still wondering...can be addressed to anyone...who was arguing...

And you are talking about?

Just generally, the tech debates that have been occuring. That question, posed a few days ago, was actually to Cotland, two pages ago, but I'm still wondering.

Just generally, the tech debates that have been occuring. That question, posed a few days ago, was actually to Cotland, two pages ago, but I'm still wondering.

What me and Pushka on the F-22, Typhoon, and Su-37? Hell this is a OOC thread we can talk about whatever we want here.

Okay have to revise:

Quebec = Elephantum

Okay to Claim

Coats Island
Mansel Island
New Brunswick
Nova Scotia
Ontario
Prince Edward Island
Southampton Island

Adding

Altai Krai
Altai Republic
Astrakhan Oblast
Kemerovo Oblast
Khakassia Republic
Krasnodar Krai
Novosibirsk Oblast
Rostov Oblast
Saratov Oblast
Volgograd Oblast

Legend

Red: General announcements (21-day, decree 12, etc.)
Blue: Response to your posts (claims, threads, etc.)
Green: Service announcements (to all, RPs, etc.)









RomeW [Post 8144]: Thread added.
Cotland [Post 8157]: Okay cool. When everyone agrees I'll do it all.
Elephantum [Post 8162]: Oki doki. All yours.
Varsola [Post 8163]: Oki doki. All yours.






Australia: NG and Psy just please confirm your taking of land in Australia.
Zimbabwe: We ever come to an agreement on Bulawayo (city) and Harare (city)?

Very Important Notice

I'm going to keep this short and sweet, I'm leaving nationstates. I don't know how its going to work, but my territories can go up for immediate free claim. This comes in with immediate effect.

Goodbye, and thanks :)

I'll claim Celtayoshi Cameroon. If you decide to come back you can have it.

I'll claim Celtayoshi Cameroon. If you decide to come back you can have it.

Varsola nabbed up all his African claims. The only three left are in Canada (Alberta, Manitoba, and Saskatchuan).

Varsola nabbed up all his African claims. The only three left are in Canada (Alberta, Manitoba, and Saskatchuan).

Varsola we need to talk...

I'll claim Khakassia, Gorno Altay, Altay-Kray, and Novosbirsk if no-one has yet.

Varsola nabbed up all his African claims. The only three left are in Canada (Alberta, Manitoba, and Saskatchuan). .

I am repealing the Doctrine of Supremacy and replacing it with something else...Dunno the name, writing it up now.

"I'll start by grabbing Quebec, the smidgen of antarctica, and the pacific lands"
-Eleph
"Bummer, man. Never actually RP'ed with you, but pity to see you go. On the other side of things, I'd like to, if possible, claim your African territories - I'll RP for them."
-Varsola
I claim Quebec, Ontario, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia.
I'll also claim Southhampton Island, Coats Island, Prince Edward Island, and Mansel Island.

Okay to Claim

Coats Island
Mansel Island
New Brunswick
Nova Scotia
Ontario
Prince Edward Island
Southampton Island

Adding->???

Altai Krai
Altai Republic
Astrakhan Oblast
Kemerovo Oblast
Khakassia Republic
Krasnodar Krai
Novosibirsk Oblast
Rostov Oblast
Saratov Oblast
Volgograd Oblast

-Lay

Adding is under 'okay to claim' so I claimed them.

Khakassia, Gorno Altay, Altay-Kray, and Novosbirsk do not equal African territory, and since no-one else has specifically named them as their claims I think I was the first.

OK:

Me and Byorn' swapped the rest of Cameroon (Varsolan Cameroon) for Tierra Del Fuego (Byornian Argentina). I also get please $200 billion. Please update accordingly.

"I'll start by grabbing Quebec, the smidgen of antarctica, and the pacific lands"
-Eleph
"Bummer, man. Never actually RP'ed with you, but pity to see you go. On the other side of things, I'd like to, if possible, claim your African territories - I'll RP for them."
-Varsola
I claim Quebec, Ontario, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia.
I'll also claim Southhampton Island, Coats Island, Prince Edward Island, and Mansel Island.

Okay to Claim

Coats Island
Mansel Island
New Brunswick
Nova Scotia
Ontario
Prince Edward Island
Southampton Island

Adding->???

Altai Krai
Altai Republic
Astrakhan Oblast
Kemerovo Oblast
Khakassia Republic
Krasnodar Krai
Novosibirsk Oblast
Rostov Oblast
Saratov Oblast
Volgograd Oblast

-Lay

Adding is under 'okay to claim' so I claimed them.

Khakassia, Gorno Altay, Altay-Kray, and Novosbirsk do not equal African territory, and since no-one else has specifically named them as their claims I think I was the first.

I meant that for me. I was adding those to my claims.

OK:

Me and Byorn' swapped the rest of Cameroon (Varsolan Cameroon) for Tierra Del Fuego (Byornian Argentina). I also get please $200 billion. Please update accordingly.

I confirm this transaction.

Cool. I'll update it once I finish the Doctrine thingy.

I confirm all oblasts given to me in Russia by Layarteb, as well as territories in Australia jointly conquered by myself and Cotland.

Yeehaw!

I confirm all oblasts given to me in Russia by Layarteb, as well as territories in Australia jointly conquered by myself and Cotland.

Yeehaw!

Yeah those are the lands of:

Altai Krai 65,289.88 169,100.01
Altai Republic 35,753.06 92,600.00
Khakassia Republic 23,899.72 61,899.99
Novosibirsk Oblast 68,803.40 178,199.98

:: begins to count money ::

:: Tough to keep any land near his territory...him and his ways ::

I confirm all oblasts given to me in Russia by Layarteb, as well as territories in Australia jointly conquered by myself and Cotland.

Yeehaw!

Curses!

Y'know NG, you can't really expand much more. How 'bout you free up some space by selling me Spain and Portugal?

Pleaaaase? It's the day after my birthday! And it's almost christmas!

Curses!

Y'know NG, you can't really expand much more. How 'bout you free up some space by selling me Spain and Portugal?

Pleaaaase? It's the day after my birthday! And it's almost christmas!

I briefly just made 4.99m square miles lol...got a little overzealous I think.

I a hoe and I proud o' my self.

Now, I apparently have to post something about ze' Aussies?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=460089

New Doctrine (of Sovereignty)

BTW is anyone graphically talented enough to make a seal (not the animal) and would like to perhaps help me out?

Final division - Australia

Cotland
New South Wales
Queensland
Northern Territory
Australian Capital Territory

North Germania
South Australia
Victoria

Psychotica
Western Australia
Tasmania

Also, I'm occupying Coral Sea Islands, Christmas Island and Norfolk Island. And that's the end of Operation Radau. You can take it off the RP list now Lay.

THIS HOE, ME, CONFIRMS!

Aha, welcome Japanese Australia!

Legend

Red: General announcements (21-day, decree 12, etc.)
Blue: Response to your posts (claims, threads, etc.)
Green: Service announcements (to all, RPs, etc.)









Cotland/NG/Pyschotika [Post 8157]: All of Australia is divied up now. Thank you. Also thank you for NOT going over your land and having to redo the maps and all that. Thanks guys! You have been good with this.
NG [Post 8186]: Yes confirmed.

Anyone RP with Celtayoshi and know any leaders he used?

EDIT: As an early christmas present, I am now the united sultanates of elephantum (so you don't have to know how I divide all my territory), still doesnt need a name change though.

I confirm that deal I made with Varsola over Antarctica.


North Germania is selling me his land in Afghanistan.

Lay, could I claim the Zimbabwean cities of Bulawayo and Harare? They appear available, looking at the Land Area Deposit and checking the claims list.

Damn you guys! Damn you for claiming all the land while I had no Internet! *cries*

Bye Celt. It's been cool interacting with you. Have a good one, and hope to see you back here soon. Take care.

I know the feeling...

Layarteb: you willing to sell Ontario? I live just outside of Toronto and I'd LOVE to have Ontario (or at least the GTA).

Elephantum:

Celtayoshi- I RP'ed with him when he had the late Premier Nemeth.

Election- I'll have a more detailed account of each candidate, but everyone has a shot. Hartian's economic success- sending the economy to stratospheric levels- clearly wins him the business vote and may be enough to win the election. Maderia is a populist, so he'll get the "older" moderate vote. Al-Tabin is more of a socialist, so he'll get the youth vote. They'll be all neck-and-neck, however.

Andrehervia, Zimbabwe is already divided up between myself and another nation.

Panthean is once again going to become a Colonial empire with the claims of 3 islands let untouched

The Panthean Confederacy claims

Montserrat
Jersey
Mayotte

Panthean Confederacy...a Colonial empire reborn (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=460193)

Panthean is once again going to become a Colonial empire with the claims of 3 islands let untouched

The Panthean Confederacy claims

Montserrat
Jersey
Mayotte

Panthean Confederacy...a Colonial empire reborn (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=460193)
Eh, those are the Channel Islands unless I'm completely mistaken. As we all know (or should know), the Channel Islands are British territory IRL, and thus belong to Hawdawg, who owns Britain. So basically you just invaded Hawdawg. Or NG, if he got all British land near the Channel. If so, you just invaded the October Alliance, and I quote from the TOA charter: "If one nation is attacked we are all attacked." This should be fun...

EDIT: Well, I was partially mistaken. Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey) is a Channel Island, and thus belongs to whoever owns Britain. That would be Hawdawg or NG. Montserrat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montserrat) belongs to Britain as well, and Mayotte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayotte) belongs to NG, as he owns France. So either way, you're messing with allies of mine.

Ouch.... btw, Jersey is Channel Islands... The other ones are French Pacific and UK Caribbean Islands. Keep your hands off of Mayotte. I consider it mine, belonging to Comoros's sphere of influence. I could be wrong with that, but then it's North Germanian, as he owns France.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10130615#post10130615


Heh, heh, heh, you major petroleum nations are going down...;)

Kreynoria']http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10130615#post10130615


Heh, heh, heh, you major petroleum nations are going down...;)
Heh, heh, heh... You are getting sanctioned...

Heh, heh, heh... You are getting sanctioned...


Well, seeing as we've sanctioned each other a few million times, I doubt there is much trade going on between us anyway.

*note to self* Smite East Timor from the face of the earth! But one little oilfield probably wouldnt be enough to supply all of yourself, especially during a civil war.

"Minor Annoyance of the Oil Powers" would work better as a title.:)

Just out of curiosity, what is the going price on oil today?

Well, actually, I had a thread a long time ago called "Kreynoria Phases Out Oil" in which we significantly reduced oil consumption by industry and as a fuel in motor vehicles and power plants.

Yeah, I know. I even bought whatever you sold of oil, if memory serves. Anyway, the only real interest I have in oil is for the military, as the civilian populace mainly drive hydrogen-powered cars (which I have in plenty from the North Sea) as I have penal taxes on fuel-inefficient cars, and they use relatively cheap power from hydro-electric dams, wind powerplants and wave powerplants (all of which I have in plenty in Norway, even RL Norway have more than enough power for our consumption from hydro-electric and wind). It's just that I export oil that makes me put a 25% penal toll on all Kreynorian goods sold in Norway. That will naturally be dropped once you stop undercutting the oil prices... ;)

WTF! How can you own both France and all the islands with it and Britain with all the islands with that. We can’t get Russia or Mexico as a whole, but we can get the British and French empire in tact

Then explain how the hell did I get Bouvet Islands which belongs to Norway

This is messed up and unfair. Maybe the person who owns Iraq should get all the middle east as well, because those territories were drawn by a drunk British general and not really the true territories.

Oh yeah you better believe im going to invade someone. Because its the only freaking thing to do and its the only way little Panthea can get some attention...because "VCO COPERATION" is so exciting (sarcasim) But it ain't worth having good men die over stupid islands...so scrap that.

Just know that by next spring Stalingard (what the capitalist call Volgograd) will be apart of the Panthean confederation

Don't ask me how they got that, but the rule has been that once you claim a nation, you get all its territories. The others might have been RP'd for and such. Btw, speaking of Bouvet Island. What kind of equipment do you have on that 29.5 sq/km rock which consists mainly of glaciers?


On a completely different note, a new RP.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=460216
"Ex Luna, Scientia"

Yeah it wasn't till after i claimed it that i realized that i have a floating Ice cube. But then i realize how cool it is owning by own iceberg. I can send it floating to Norway sinking every ship in its path. And my nation has the monopoly on ice


Muahahahaha

Yeah it wasn't till after i claimed it that i realized that i have a floating Ice cube. But then i realize how cool it is owning by own iceberg. I can send it floating to Norway sinking every ship in its path. And my nation has the monopoly on ice


Muahahahaha
I'll pay you $60 million for it.

VCO members check forums

Still doesn't make sense how i got Bouvet though...could of swore to god someone else had Norway.

Then who gets America's colonies the one who claims Washington DC???

60 million dollars for my iceberg is nice, but at the moment im more concern with getting Russian land not money

Besides with the Elephantum flag act on me i can't buy much with my 60 million

"I'll start by grabbing Quebec, the smidgen of antarctica, and the pacific lands"
-Eleph
"Bummer, man. Never actually RP'ed with you, but pity to see you go. On the other side of things, I'd like to, if possible, claim your African territories - I'll RP for them."
-Varsola
I claim Quebec, Ontario, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia.
I'll also claim Southhampton Island, Coats Island, Prince Edward Island, and Mansel Island.

Okay to Claim

Coats Island
Mansel Island
New Brunswick
Nova Scotia
Ontario
Prince Edward Island
Southampton Island

Adding->???

Altai Krai
Altai Republic
Astrakhan Oblast
Kemerovo Oblast
Khakassia Republic
Krasnodar Krai
Novosibirsk Oblast
Rostov Oblast
Saratov Oblast
Volgograd Oblast

-Lay

Adding is under 'okay to claim' so I claimed them.

Khakassia, Gorno Altay, Altay-Kray, and Novosbirsk do not equal African territory, and since no-one else has specifically named them as their claims I think I was the first.

WTF mate, i own some of those lands.

Lay you made a mistake Kemerovo is mine.

Astrakhan Oblast 17,027.11 44,100.01
Krasnodar Krai 29,343.76 75,999.99
Rostov Oblast 38,919.10 100,800.00
Saratov Oblast 38,687.44 100,200.01
Volgograd Oblast 44,054.26 114,100.00


Is what I am transfering to Hirgizstan.

Legend

Red: General announcements (21-day, decree 12, etc.)
Blue: Response to your posts (claims, threads, etc.)
Green: Service announcements (to all, RPs, etc.)









Elephantum [Post 8195]: Doesn't matter, I'll change it on the claims list and the RPs as time goes on.
Neuvo Rica [Post 8196]: What deal about Antarctica? And okay when NG confirms I'll do it.
Andrehervia [Post 8197]: If Brink or Hirgy don't post anything about those two things in Zimbabwe by tomorrow (12.21) 8:00 p.m. okay they are yours. Welcome back.
RomeW [Post 8198]: Rome, at the moment, Ontario is of vital importance to my borders and I cannot depart with it. I am sorry. Perhaps in due time it shall be available. You know you should claim the rest of Canada, it is free.
Pantheaa [Post 8202]: Montserrat is claimed by me under "Lesser Antilles;" Jersey is included with the UK Mayotte is free though. Added.
VL [Post 8204]: Technically Mayotte is a French thingy but it was never included with the French things as my records show so it's technically free. Comorros may have it in influence but not in area.
Kreynoria [Post 8205]: Thread added.
Cotland [Post 8213]: Thread added.
Pantheaa [Post 8217]: Here is how it works. You claim a country you get all of it. However, some people have sold certain areas to others, which is why if you then claim that country you only get that particular claim. The Lesser Antilles were once in the possession of Samtonia, IIRC, despite some of the island belonging to Europe. With that they were a separate claim.
Pushka [Post 8218]: Corrected.

BTW is anyone graphically talented enough to make a seal (not the animal) and would like to perhaps help me out?

I guess i can try, you seen some of my work (my only work), unless of course you don't want to have SB do it. I can criss-cross my skills with paint (eh...) and my skills with that photograph editing program that came with my digital camera (even a bigger eh...) Anyways what kind of seal and for what?

I guess i can try, you seen some of my work (my only work), unless of course you don't want to have SB do it. I can criss-cross my skills with paint (eh...) and my skills with that photograph editing program that came with my digital camera (even a bigger eh...) Anyways what kind of seal and for what?


http://www.doa.louisiana.gov/images/stateseal.gif

a seal like that but with certain elements and some writing...I just don't know how to circular wrap writing...if anyone could tell me it would be cool.

Bjorn man please respond in VCO forums.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=460274


LOL see if you can find my witty response ;)

Important Announcement for Pantheaa:

IF North Germania doesn't claim those Islands you are invading in the English Channel, they would fall under my rule (RL they are actually British soil). So it is safe to say your invasion is an open invitation to a war. Even if he does claim them I think we will become involved since the Channel is vital to our national security, etc. We will not utilize any Biological or Nuclear weapons in the said conflict. We wish for all combat to remain conventional in nature. Expect large amounts on death and destruction.

Sincerely,

Hawdawg

LOL @ Haw...I think he just claimed it not knowing it was claimed.

Hey guys, on my website (URL in my signature) you can now view the Earth II page, which is now active. You can access the charter in PDF form, the spreadsheet, and the maps from the website, which will all be kept up-to-date.

Besides, a TOA vs. Pantheaa war wouldn't be any fun, I couldnt help either side.

Me either. It would feel like a gang-rape onto Pantheaa and that's just not fair.

Yep another plane lands with landing gear problems. Is it me or has the frequency of this increased? See this is the stupid media harping on this shit, trying to scare people away from flying and hoping for the aircraft to blow up in flames for ratings. Me, personally, this is why I fly. These pilots have done superbly every time and the aircraft have held up, every time!

Important Announcement for Pantheaa:

IF North Germania doesn't claim those Islands you are invading in the English Channel, they would fall under my rule (RL they are actually British soil). So it is safe to say your invasion is an open invitation to a war. Even if he does claim them I think we will become involved since the Channel is vital to our national security, etc. We will not utilize any Biological or Nuclear weapons in the said conflict. We wish for all combat to remain conventional in nature. Expect large amounts on death and destruction.

Sincerely,

Hawdawg

can i help you in exchange for a warm water port? Because i am fully prepared to annihilate him and allow your troops to be transported over my land for that. Just an itsy bitsy piece of land, 12-20 kilometers in length, only a small dot on the map is all i ask.

Me either. It would feel like a gang-rape onto Pantheaa and that's just not fair.

Nothing helps resolve a global conflict between two opposing alliances like a chance to kick the little guy on the head.

RomeW [Post 8198]: Rome, at the moment, Ontario is of vital importance to my borders and I cannot depart with it. I am sorry. Perhaps in due time it shall be available. You know you should claim the rest of Canada, it is free.

In which case, I will claim the rest of Canada (i.e. Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba).

Pantheaa you have a NICE flag.

Bjorn man please respond in VCO forums.

Cursed democratic voting, done.

anyway, expect little activity from me over the break due to me hanging out with family during Christmas and having to work from new computer.

Bjorn, please check the international stock exchange first. There should be a BIG jump in the value of Kinetisch and Deutschesarbeit. Also put several hundred thousand shares up for sale in each company.

Neuvo Rica [Post 8196]: What deal about Antarctica? And okay when NG confirms I'll do it.

Varsola sold me his Antarctic territories for $450 Billion. He should confirm it in the near future.

@NG: Please could you confirm the deal we made?

All nations should realize that whatever the VCO or big oil nations are offering for oil...my nation will undercut the comptetion for 10 DOLLARS CHEAPER A BARREL!!!

Speaking for rich oil lands...Layertab any chance you can hand over the Volgogard oblast. Im willing to pay top dollar for it or do anything you want.

can i help you in exchange for a warm water port? Because i am fully prepared to annihilate him and allow your troops to be transported over my land for that. Just an itsy bitsy piece of land, 12-20 kilometers in length, only a small dot on the map is all i ask.

Sorry, too many fingers in the pie spoils the pie.


-Hawdawg

All nations should realize that whatever the VCO or big oil nations are offering for oil...my nation will undercut the comptetion for 10 DOLLARS CHEAPER A BARREL!!!

Speaking for rich oil lands...Layertab any chance you can hand over the Volgogard oblast. Im willing to pay top dollar for it or do anything you want.

At the moment I have an initial offer to someone. If that is rejected I have a secondary offer to someone else. If that is rejected I shall give it to you, possibly.

Announcement:

Soviet Bloc and I have a pending land deal the terms will be listed on a need to know basis, unfortunately most of you don't need to know. I can tell you that it involves a strip of texas coastline, an old shrimp boat and a large rusty anchor on bolivar pennisula.

Pending the agreement a RP will ensue that lays out what will incur. A 5,000 square mile area of texas coastline will be ceded to SB for undisclosed cash, and or items. Stay tuned.

-Hawdawg

Announcement:

Soviet Bloc and I have a pending land deal the terms will be listed on a need to know basis, unfortunately most of you don't need to know. I can tell you that it involves a strip of texas coastline, an old shrimp boat and a large rusty anchor on bolivar pennisula.

Pending the agreement a RP will ensue that lays out what will incur. A 5,000 square mile area of texas coastline will be ceded to SB for undisclosed cash, and or items. Stay tuned.

-Hawdawg

If I get a counties map of Texas would you go by the county or no?

Announcement:

Soviet Bloc and I have a pending land deal the terms will be listed on a need to know basis, unfortunately most of you don't need to know. I can tell you that it involves a strip of texas coastline, an old shrimp boat and a large rusty anchor on bolivar pennisula.

Pending the agreement a RP will ensue that lays out what will incur. A 5,000 square mile area of texas coastline will be ceded to SB for undisclosed cash, and or items. Stay tuned.

-Hawdawg

If I get a counties map of Texas would you go by the county or no?

http://www.casey-genealogy.com/gifs/maps/texas-counties-young.gif

Ignore the red thing. Maybe like that or no?

I will make it easier than that. Eastern half of Galvestion Bay (Pennisula East of Main Island), Chambers County, Liberty County, Jefferson County, Hardin County, and Orange County. That is roughly an area about 5,000 sq miles. Basically area south of I-10 to Harris County Line. Here is a link that shows the county break down for coloring purposes.

http://county-map.digital-topo-maps.com/texas.shtml

Soviet Bloc will confirm all of this.

-Hawdawg

Combined Land Area for the above counties= Hardin 894, Chambers 599, Jefferson 904, Orange 356, Liberty 1160, and Galveston (partial) 198.

Total Square Mileage 4111.


-Hawdawg

I will make it easier than that. Eastern half of Galvestion Bay (Pennisula East of Main Island), Chambers County, Liberty County, Jefferson County, Hardin County, and Orange County. That is roughly an area about 5,000 sq miles. Basically area south of I-10 to Harris County Line. Here is a link that shows the county break down for coloring purposes.

http://county-map.digital-topo-maps.com/texas.shtml

Soviet Bloc will confirm all of this.

-Hawdawg

MUCH APPRECIATED!!!


Gentlemen & ladies (if there are any). I am going out on a shooting excursion and a 24 Fest (the TV show) so I probably won't be back until late Thursday or early Friday. Don't kill each other while I am gone. I will leave it in the hands of Mari.

Ummm, just wondering, didn't we divvy up Israel between Cotland, Elephantum, and me some time ago?

Land Claims for the COH, from Celt's old claims:

Astrakhan Oblast
Rostov Oblast
Saratov Oblast
Volgograd Oblast

These places are in the East of Russia in RL right?

Anyone got a decent map of these places?

Elephantum and Rome have made the following trade

From Rome to Elephantum
Mozambique 309,495.60
Swaziland 6,703.89
Mexico (Aguascalientes) 2,112.37
Mexico (Colima) 2,004.26
Mexico (Diatrito Federale) 571.05
Mexico (Guanajato) 11,772.64
Mexico (Guerrero) 24,819.03
Mexico (Hidalgo) 8,035.94
Mexico (Jalisco) 31,037.21
Mexico (México) 8,245.21
Mexico (Michoacán) 23,138.33
Mexico (Morelos) 1,911.21
Mexico (Nuevo León) 25,067.30
Mexico (Oaxaca) 36,275.07
Mexico (Puebla) 13,089.64
Mexico (Querétaro) 4,420.48
Mexico (San Luis Potoaí) 24,350.69
Mexico (Tlaxacale) 1,550.59
Mexico (Zacatecas) 28,282.76

From Elephantum to Rome

Quebec 595,391.20


:p TOA