NationStates Jolt Archive

Neuvo Rica, check TGs. Bjorn, elaborate on what your problem with Neuvo Rica is please.

Layarteb, could you please put me on Decree 13 status untill I return from my Christmas "vacation"? I will be leaving very early tommorrow morning, and I won't be back untill the 27th or 28th. Thank you in advance.

Merry Christmas everybody!

Layarteb, could you please put me on Decree 13 status untill I return from my Christmas "vacation"? I will be leaving very early tommorrow morning, and I won't be back untill the 27th or 28th. Thank you in advance.

Merry Christmas everybody!

Bah humbug.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

You said the "C-word!"

Sue him!
(Runs from stampede of ACLU lawyers converging on scene)

Hah! I can say it exactly how many times I please, cuz I live in Norway!!! :D

It doesn't matter, when the ACLU finds you (and they will), they will take your passport, cross out "Norway," replace it with "USA," and you will be up to your armpits in lawsuits.

MUCH APPRECIATED!!!


Gentlemen & ladies (if there are any). I am going out on a shooting excursion and a 24 Fest (the TV show) so I probably won't be back until late Thursday or early Friday. Don't kill each other while I am gone. I will leave it in the hands of Mari.

Indeed.

Elephantum and Rome have made the following trade

From Rome to Elephantum
Mozambique 309,495.60
Swaziland 6,703.89
Mexico (Aguascalientes) 2,112.37
Mexico (Colima) 2,004.26
Mexico (Diatrito Federale) 571.05
Mexico (Guanajato) 11,772.64
Mexico (Guerrero) 24,819.03
Mexico (Hidalgo) 8,035.94
Mexico (Jalisco) 31,037.21
Mexico (México) 8,245.21
Mexico (Michoacán) 23,138.33
Mexico (Morelos) 1,911.21
Mexico (Nuevo León) 25,067.30
Mexico (Oaxaca) 36,275.07
Mexico (Puebla) 13,089.64
Mexico (Querétaro) 4,420.48
Mexico (San Luis Potoaí) 24,350.69
Mexico (Tlaxacale) 1,550.59
Mexico (Zacatecas) 28,282.76

From Elephantum to Rome

Quebec 595,391.20


:p TOA

I shall confirm this. I would also like to report that upon receiving Quebec, I am trading it to Layarteb for Ontario, my home province. :D

*is happiest man in the world* Well, close enough....;)

Oops!

I gave Neuvo Rico my land in Afghanistan in exchange for a monetary sum and some diplomatic and economic arrangements.

Confirming that.

This is just to confirm that me and Hawdawg have agreed to the terms of sale involving the region of Texas [which he stated]. I'm just here to confirm. An RP involving the details of the sale/transfer should be up in a matter of hours...

Who owns New Orleans?

Since I live there and all that happened, I'd like to buy it and set it and metro areas (Kenner, Metairie, Belle Chasse, Harahan, Westwego, Gretna, Chalmette, Mandeville, North Shore, Irish Bayou, etc.) as its own autonomous republic which will be funded entirely by the Reich ($100 billion annually).

It won't be part of the Reich itself, nor will the Reich influence its politics.

So, whoever owns it, would you be interested in selling it?

Legend

Red: General announcements (21-day, decree 12, etc.)
Blue: Response to your posts (claims, threads, etc.)
Green: Service announcements (to all, RPs, etc.)




New Mexico map.





RomeW [Post 8234]: Added the claims.
NR [Post 8238]: Added the Antarctica claim.
Hawdawg [Post 8245]: Okay done.
TLS [Post 8248]: No official divvy up has been posted or agreed upon.
Hirgizstan [Post 8249]: Yeah check out the maps that we have of Russia & Russia (Real-Life).
Elephantum/RomeW [Post 8250]: Land trade done. TOA? (LOL)
Cotland [Post 8252]: Okay.
RomeW [Post 8258]: Yep done.
NG/NR [Post 8259]: Afghanistan moved.

Lay, I own all of Cameroon. Could the main African Map reflect that please?

Lay, I own all of Cameroon. Could the main African Map reflect that please?

For the time being, because it was split into a separate map, it is going to stay as such. This way if you sell a part I don't have to redo everything (again).

**GENERAL OOC ANNOUNCEMENT**

I'm afraid that, due to (RL) school and the (NS) Role Play University, I will have to cancel my membership of Earth II. I have had some very nice times with you all in the past +- One/Two months, and I would do it again if I had the time. I will still be active on the I.I., but I can't keep up with developments in both EII and I.I. Therefore, I will give all my land away, and sadly enough leave EII. But I hope I can once return. I'm sorry for myself, and to EII, especially members of the VCO, of which I was a member of. I'm afraid I've left you in the cold, and maybe I did with the whole EII, due to my sparse time. Therefore, I have chosen to keep active in I.I., but I cannot keep my presence in EII. Bye all, and have fun in the future, and may I once return,

Koen van Luxemburg,
The player behind Van Luxemburg and Monaco.

That sucks, sorry to see you go VL.

I'd like to claim VL's D.R.C. territories and Nigeria.

**GENERAL OOC ANNOUNCEMENT**

I'm afraid that, due to (RL) school and the (NS) Role Play University, I will have to cancel my membership of Earth II. I have had some very nice times with you all in the past +- One/Two months, and I would do it again if I had the time. I will still be active on the I.I., but I can't keep up with developments in both EII and I.I. Therefore, I will give all my land away, and sadly enough leave EII. But I hope I can once return. I'm sorry for myself, and to EII, especially members of the VCO, of which I was a member of. I'm afraid I've left you in the cold, and maybe I did with the whole EII, due to my sparse time. Therefore, I have chosen to keep active in I.I., but I cannot keep my presence in EII. Bye all, and have fun in the future, and may I once return,

Koen van Luxemburg,
The player behind Van Luxemburg and Monaco.

Indeed I am sorry to see you go. You'll always be welcomed back.

Darn, that's too bad we never got to RP. Still, these things happen.

NR Claims Sudan, Johnston Island and Clipperton Atoll.

!@#$$%*@*(*^@_)!%&%!#)%(!

I got beaten to the islands by Neuvo Rica

Sorry to see you go, VL.

We have lost Touch with Hiiraan over here.

*stands straight saluting*

The Africanus Empire is reporting back to duty as I speak Sir!

*Back to normal state*

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10144862#post10144862

That sucks, sorry to see you go VL.

I'd like to claim VL's D.R.C. territories and Nigeria.

Bjornoya, We are trying to increase our territory ( only Rwanda now) into far DRC. Do you want to seperate it or fight for it? either peace :fluffle: or war :sniper: . Its your Choice.

Land Claims for the COH, from Celt's old claims:

Astrakhan Oblast
Rostov Oblast
Saratov Oblast
Volgograd Oblast

These places are in the East of Russia in RL right?

Anyone got a decent map of these places?


Well its very sad to see Russian land go in the hands of a non-Russian nation....but anyways Pantheaa will like to welcome their new neighbor. Any chance you feel like trading Volgograd for one of my oblasts...just ask

The war in the Holy Lands are t3h over! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10145561&posted=1)

*woooo*

Now the land can be divvied up amongst the victors as we decided earlier.

If no one claimed it, I will rescue my monacan allies capital from outside domination (probably squeeze the posts in some other thread)

The war in the Holy Lands are t3h over! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10145561&posted=1)

*woooo*

Now the land can be divvied up amongst the victors as we decided earlier.

Ja, what was that again?

Ride the Lightning (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=448866) just took a seriously ugly turn for me.

Bjornoya, We are trying to increase our territory ( only Rwanda now) into far DRC. Do you want to seperate it or fight for it? either peace :fluffle: or war :sniper: . Its your Choice.

You want war you'll get the enitre VCO on your ass, try me I dare you.

You want land you can get some of his other African territories, you want D.R.C. you get war with not only me but Russia and the UER.

You want war you'll get the enitre VCO on your ass, try me I dare you.

You want land you can get some of his other African territories, you want D.R.C. you get war with not only me but Russia and the UER.

I gave you a decent question..... War or not and you answered it with mambo jambo stuff. is it war or do you want to Seperate the land in Half, in quarters, whatever!.

Now, Is there a good answer from you side?

Also, Russia comminicated with me about 2 weeks ago and we agreed to be in the same alliance, so he is my ally, and the UER is well...... I can tell you that they can give exprience to my men if they chose war too. I am not trying to force to chose peace or war but I want your answer soon.

Claims
<snip>

The Union of Roman States (RomeW): Alberta, Arizona, Bismarck Archipelago, Bolivia, Brazil (Acre, Alagoas, Distrito Federal, Mato Grosso do Sul, Minas Gerais, Paraná, Pernambuco, Rio de Janeiro, Rio Grande do Sul, Rondônia, Santa Catarina, São Paulo, Sergipe), British Columbia, California, Chile, Corsica, Ellesmere Island, Florida (Sanibel), Italy (Aosta Valley, Emilia-Romagna, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Latium, Liguria, Lombardy, Marches, Piedmont, Sardinia, Trentino-South Tyrol, Tuscany, Umbria, Veneto), Libya (east), Louisiana (part), Manitoba, Mexico (Baja California Sur, Baja California, Chihuahua, Coahuila Province, Durango Province, Nayarit Province, Sinaloa Province), Nevada, New Mexico, Ontario, Oregon, Penza Oblast, Saskatchewan, Saudi Arabia (Ash Sharqiyah part), Southwest Corridor (US), Texas (Brownsville), Utah, Vancouver Island, Vanuatu, Washington, Western Sahara

:D

It took me a year and a half, but I FINALLY did it. Boy, is my home due for a makeover. :D Thanks Lay.

Who owns New Orleans?

Since I live there and all that happened, I'd like to buy it and set it and metro areas (Kenner, Metairie, Belle Chasse, Harahan, Westwego, Gretna, Chalmette, Mandeville, North Shore, Irish Bayou, etc.) as its own autonomous republic which will be funded entirely by the Reich ($100 billion annually).

It won't be part of the Reich itself, nor will the Reich influence its politics.

So, whoever owns it, would you be interested in selling it?

I do (as well as the rest of Eastern Louisiana east of the Louisiana-Mississippi border), and since it's Christmas and that I received my home province (Ontario), we might be able to work something out.

A few things about Earth II's New Orleans:

1) I moved New Orleans (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9715810&postcount=1) to the south side of the Mississippi River (and thus, on the south side of Lake Ponticharin) because of the hurricane threat (side note- I planned the move well before Katrina hit the city in RL- Katrina forced my hand).

Now, at the original site of New Orleans stands nothing. So, what I am proposing to you is that we both build a "twin" city for my "New Orleans" at the original site, and that both of our "New Orleanses" are interconnected. What do you say?

I gave you a decent question..... War or not and you answered it with mambo jambo stuff. is it war or do you want to Seperate the land in Half, in quarters, whatever!.

Now, Is there a good answer from you side?

Also, Russia comminicated with me about 2 weeks ago and we agreed to be in the same alliance, so he is my ally, and the UER is well...... I can tell you that they can give exprience to my men if they chose war too. I am not trying to force to chose peace or war but I want your answer soon.

You're not in VCO officially as far as I know. You have not been voted in.

I wil fight over D.R.C. I worked hard to get those African claims. You wanna negotiate talk $ and land, otherwise no.

1) I moved New Orleans to the south side of the Mississippi River (and thus, on the south side of Lake Ponticharin) because of the hurricane threat (side note- I planned the move well before Katrina hit the city in RL- Katrina forced my hand).

Now, at the original site of New Orleans stands nothing. So, what I am proposing to you is that we both build a "twin" city for my "New Orleans" at the original site, and that both of our "New Orleanses" are interconnected. What do you say?

New Orleans is already South of Lake Ponchartrain (and uptown is North of the Mississippi, thus making the city in-between both), but I see where you're coming from. The only parts of the city NOT South of the lake are North Shore, Mandeville, and Irish Bayou. Moving the city away from that damned river would help everyone (keep in mind the lake isn't so much the problem as the river is). I lived about two blocks South of the Lakefront (Northwest of Milneburg on Elysian Fields Ave. in Orleans Parish), but the flooding in my neighborhood came from the 17th St. Canal break 6 or 8 blocks to the East (9th Ward).

I'm assuming you moved all parts of New Orleans too (Kenner, Metairie, Gretna, Harahan, Chalmette, Harvey, Westwego, etc).

What I'd like to do is keep the buildings, apartments, houses, etc. where NOLA originally was (in E2) and dam the Mississippi North of Lake Ponchartrain so it doesn't surround the city. The twin cities idea sounds good. That way, I could have the original location of the French Quarter, City Park, N.O. Zoo, Metairie, Kenner, etc.

I gave you a decent question..... War or not and you answered it with mambo jambo stuff. is it war or do you want to Seperate the land in Half, in quarters, whatever!.

Now, Is there a good answer from you side?

Also, Russia comminicated with me about 2 weeks ago and we agreed to be in the same alliance, so he is my ally, and the UER is well...... I can tell you that they can give exprience to my men if they chose war too. I am not trying to force to chose peace or war but I want your answer soon.

Well the thing is that Bjorn is right you aren't a member of VCO, and although we may have an alliance together my VCO membership overrules it in an event of war. If you attack him i will have to step in on his side, if he attacks you i will stay neutral. Also problems with Bjorn might keep you from joining VCO if you ever wanted to submit your profile and be voted on by the already existing members.

Well the thing is that Bjorn is right you aren't a member of VCO, and although we may have an alliance together my VCO membership overrules it in an event of war. If you attack him i will have to step in on his side, if he attacks you i will stay neutral. Also problems with Bjorn might keep you from joining VCO if you ever wanted to submit your profile and be voted on by the already existing members.

If it does come down to a war...be warn that i will not accept Russian Fed or
Hiiraan troops moving through the Panthean confederation. Stay out of my air space as well. Or else go wage war in the DRC far from me

I can get my troops to there i need them to be by sea, or by international airspace. Don't worry Panthea, i have no reason to destroy you right now.

Is there actually any countries not ruled right now? if so can you TG me the list im on limited time at the moment so I cant look through everything to see.

Is there actually any countries not ruled right now? if so can you TG me the list im on limited time at the moment so I cant look through everything to see.

I don't think any at the moment but you can ask around. :)

alright, looks like I had more time on my hands then I thought...anyway I never got around to asking what ever actually happend to my old lands? I didn`t read anything about it.

alright, looks like I had more time on my hands then I thought...anyway I never got around to asking what ever actually happend to my old lands? I didn`t read anything about it.

Someone nabbed them. No idea who. Land has changed so many times it isn't funny.

Pushka took them.

well actually I could find a way to make it funny. Anyway if I do see an opening anywhere I`ll most likly take it. Earth II was well sorta fun while I was in it.

Oh and, like I told you before, just play as the Minister of Kobe until I conquer land for you. We are entering this large world war soon anyways, :-P.

Oh and, like I told you before, just play as the Minister of Kobe until I conquer land for you. We are entering this large world war soon anyways, :-P.

LOL you know something I don't?

Yea, I'm waging a secret war that not even my enemies know of yet.

I am like the Japanese of WWII.

Yea, I'm waging a secret war that not even my enemies know of yet.

I am like the Japanese of WWII.

Yeah should I be worried about Hawaii.

No.

No.

So going to reinforce myself lol!

*Checks logistics...*

WHOA!

My Bombers still has Honolulu under my Coverage...>_>

*Checks logistics...*

WHOA!

My Bombers still has Honolulu under my Coverage...>_>

That's why I have long-range SAMs.

Yes.

That is why I am Japanese and have a lot of planes who tend to crash on purpose...jk.

Anyways, don't distract me!!!

Hmm...

Yes.

That is why I am Japanese and have a lot of planes who tend to crash on purpose...jk.

Anyways, don't distract me!!!

Hmm...

Damn he found out my battle statedgy.

Can I get a piece of crappy land so I can still RP in EII?

Can I get a piece of crappy land so I can still RP in EII?

LOL I am sure someone is willing to give away some piece of crap atolls in the Pacific. No idea who though ;).

Heh heh heh.

Yeah, you don't need that island >_>

Heh heh heh.

Yeah, you don't need that island >_>

If only I had an island to give you LOL!

Ah come on, at least some farmland. I just want to RP in EII >_>

If I were allowed to fight off Cotland (which I could do quite easily) and all the moochers, I'd give you NZ, TIOR. Alas, I got D12ed, meaning I'm somehow not allowed to defend my claims against Cotland's numerically inferior expeditionary force.

This rule always kinda bugged me, since I got back before Cotland finished his invasion of my homeland. Ah well.

edit: I TGed the guy requesting a restart of the invasion RP, but he never responded for some reason.

Heh heh. I wonder who got Wake Island though.

Can I get a piece of crappy land so I can still RP in EII?

You can have Liberia if you want it... it is pretty crappy

Dang that's pretty crappy.

Is that the best thing I'll be able to get?

If I were allowed to fight off Cotland (which I could do quite easily) and all the moochers, I'd give you NZ, TIOR. Alas, I got D12ed, meaning I'm somehow not allowed to defend my claims against Cotland's numerically inferior expeditionary force.

This rule always kinda bugged me, since I got back before Cotland finished his invasion of my homeland. Ah well.

edit: I TGed the guy requesting a restart of the invasion RP, but he never responded for some reason.

Nope you didn't get D12'd. Teh Ninjas got D12. You were originally 21-day and then you got deleted for inactivity, which means they aren't required to let you fight anymore. If you were just 21-day or D12 you could step in and fight back and they couldn't say anything but because your nation got deleted for inactivity by NS there was nothing I could do about it.

Dang that's pretty crappy.

Is that the best thing I'll be able to get?

Psst. Check yer TGs.

Attention Nation's Of Earth II

The Empire hereby asks that you join in the condemnation of the Russian government for unnecessarily harassing and threatening an NGO, civilian, non-hostile vessel.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10149626&postcount=241

OOC: The ship is technically a warship, with arms, and it is a SIGINT vessel. However, all weapon systems are hidden from the naked eye and even sensors. It is registered under the NGO Weather Watchers, which is a multi-national NGO that monitors weather shifts, including Global Warming. No evidence points back to it being part of the ILN. It is actually under the Black Operations division of the Navy so it's pretty well hidden. However, from the surface this is definitely an unnecessary harrassment of a civilian vessel. The truth, which is unknown, is that it had been spying on the Russian coast, trying to detect any anti-stealth system.

I'll accept Liberia, and split it with Tyrandis.

*Checks logistics...*

WHOA!

My Bombers still has Honolulu under my Coverage...>_>


I'm not amused...Technically, Honolulu is now Kreynoriapolis.

I'll accept Liberia, and split it with Tyrandis.

How.

Right downt he middle, that's how. Like Korea! :D

I'd like to claim Wake Island too since apparently nobody wants it. I don't see it claimed so...

Corrections to be made...i confused Hiiraan with Hirgizstan. They sound a like....almost. hiiraan is no where in Russia..my bad

alright well sence psychotika is being so...ummm i cant spell jenarus (lol just wrote down what it sounded like) but anyway i'm going to gain controle of just a small rebel force, anyone got a problem with me running into there territory so I can rebel their people and controle it? lol.

Nerotika = Third World Country

NG post your representative's arrival in VCO congress thread please.

Nerotika = Third World Country

...awww even though its true you dont have to say it outloud =-(

TIOR, I'll give you a piece of Kansas under one condition: You put your capital city there...

*Hehehehehehe...*

We put forth our claim to the D.R.C Officially

I thought Bjorn already had that. Do you really want me and UER aiding Bjorn in destroying your nation?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10152339#post10152339

Proyekt Liedohod

watch me as i battle the evil ice of the arctic ocean.

Because I may not be on until after XMas, I figured I'd put this up. For the thicker skulled, I am not serious.

Elephanti Military on Holiday Alert
The Elephanti Army, Navy, and Air Force are on high alert this holiday season, as a credible threat of attack has appeared. An aircraft piloted by a "Santa Claus" is expected to enter Elephanti airspace on Christmas Eve. This aircraft is described as having Vertical Takeoff and Landing capability, and is powered by 12 Reindeer-Pattern Engines. It is also described, by eyewitnesses, as holding incredible amounts of cargo, largely goods that are presumably stolen, and hidden in the homes of law abiding Christians. These reports lead us to believe the plane is operated by an unknown military power, so we would advise the nations of the world to be on high alert. We will shoot it down if it enters Elephanti Airspace.

Because I may not be on until after XMas, I figured I'd put this up. For the thicker skulled, I am not serious.

Elephanti Military on Holiday Alert
The Elephanti Army, Navy, and Air Force are on high alert this holiday season, as a credible threat of attack has appeared. An aircraft piloted by a "Santa Claus" is expected to enter Elephanti airspace on Christmas Eve. This aircraft is described as having Vertical Takeoff and Landing capability, and is powered by 12 Reindeer-Pattern Engines. It is also described, by eyewitnesses, as holding incredible amounts of cargo, largely goods that are presumably stolen, and hidden in the homes of law abiding Christians. These reports lead us to believe the plane is operated by an unknown military power, so we would advise the nations of the world to be on high alert. We will shoot it down if it enters Elephanti Airspace.

Honestly I don't think anyone is really going to be on this weekend. Shall we just halt some stuff until the 26th?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10152339#post10152339

Proyekt Liedohod

watch me as i battle the evil ice of the arctic ocean.

Yeah people you guys need to condemn this because this act will cause the polar ice caps to melt, thereby raising ocean levels, desalination of the worlds' oceans, and basically kill everyone. Way to go Russia!

We put forth our claim to the D.R.C Officially

I already claimed the D.R.C. (except for Hirgy's part), but if you're so adamant prepare for war.

(and big letters don't intimidate me)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10152339#post10152339

Proyekt Liedohod

watch me as i battle the evil ice of the arctic ocean.

Pushka, this will seriously fuck up my nation, drowning my capitol and all other port cities. Aside from that it would take a ridiculously large amount of time and energy for such a meaningless project, It won't be completed for 100s of years if you're trying to melt it all. If you're just melting a certain small region, go right ahead its your money, but Russian vessels will not be allowed into Visara's claims in the Arctic Ocean (specifically my oil-drilling platforms) to complete this task that would effectivelly drown every major coastal city in the world if completed efficiently.

Pushka, this will seriously fuck up my nation, drowning my capitol and all other port cities. Aside from that it would take a ridiculously large amount of time and energy for such a meaningless project, It won't be completed for 100s of years if you're trying to melt it all. If you're just melting a certain small region, go right ahead its your money, but Russian vessels will not be allowed into Visara's claims in the Arctic Ocean (specifically my oil-drilling platforms) to complete this task that would effectivelly drown every major coastal city in the world if completed efficiently.

The amount that he needs to melt in order to get his ships out effectively would drown pretty much everything in the Arctic, including his own coastline.

Layarteb is ranked 3rd in the region and 735th in the world for Largest Defense Forces (per capita).

mmm all that money guys and yet the only guys who outrank me there are NG and Hirgy, maybe a few others but not the majors.

The amount that he needs to melt in order to get his ships out effectively would drown pretty much everything in the Arctic, including his own coastline.

If its the ice around his ports during the winter, that's fine and dandy, if its the polar ice caps, that's a Dr. Evil plan to destroy the world.

If its the ice around his ports during the winter, that's fine and dandy, if its the polar ice caps, that's a Dr. Evil plan to destroy the world.

Problem is you can't just raise the water temperature in one area. The heat spreads and warms up the rest of the ice. To clear the paths that is a lot of ice because you can't just clear one, you need to clear many from each port out to warm water. That's a lot of ice.

Because I may not be on until after XMas, I figured I'd put this up. For the thicker skulled, I am not serious.

Elephanti Military on Holiday Alert
The Elephanti Army, Navy, and Air Force are on high alert this holiday season, as a credible threat of attack has appeared. An aircraft piloted by a "Santa Claus" is expected to enter Elephanti airspace on Christmas Eve. This aircraft is described as having Vertical Takeoff and Landing capability, and is powered by 12 Reindeer-Pattern Engines. It is also described, by eyewitnesses, as holding incredible amounts of cargo, largely goods that are presumably stolen, and hidden in the homes of law abiding Christians. These reports lead us to believe the plane is operated by an unknown military power, so we would advise the nations of the world to be on high alert. We will shoot it down if it enters Elephanti Airspace.


Now that is funny.

-Hawdawg

New Orleans is already South of Lake Ponchartrain (and uptown is North of the Mississippi, thus making the city in-between both), but I see where you're coming from. The only parts of the city NOT South of the lake are North Shore, Mandeville, and Irish Bayou. Moving the city away from that damned river would help everyone (keep in mind the lake isn't so much the problem as the river is). I lived about two blocks South of the Lakefront (Northwest of Milneburg on Elysian Fields Ave. in Orleans Parish), but the flooding in my neighborhood came from the 17th St. Canal break 6 or 8 blocks to the East (9th Ward).

I'm assuming you moved all parts of New Orleans too (Kenner, Metairie, Gretna, Harahan, Chalmette, Harvey, Westwego, etc).

What I'd like to do is keep the buildings, apartments, houses, etc. where NOLA originally was (in E2) and dam the Mississippi North of Lake Ponchartrain so it doesn't surround the city. The twin cities idea sounds good. That way, I could have the original location of the French Quarter, City Park, N.O. Zoo, Metairie, Kenner, etc.

I was under the impression that New Orleans was west of Ponchartrain, not south of it, because to my understanding New Orleans is essentially *in* the Mississippi River- hence why I *moved* the city. I didn't RP what happened to the buildings, so we can assume that they're still there but nobody's using them.

Anyway, if you want to lay the first stake in the building of the "Twin Cities of New Orleans", go ahead (I won't be able to start it tonight). Together, we shall create- literally- the "Party Capital of the World".

How are things down there in NOLA? I've heard things are getting better.

Problem is you can't just raise the water temperature in one area. The heat spreads and warms up the rest of the ice. To clear the paths that is a lot of ice because you can't just clear one, you need to clear many from each port out to warm water. That's a lot of ice.

Yeah, plausability is a factor. If the plan were elaborated (I think I'm not reading it right or did not get what author intended) it might be workable.

In other news...

JESUS HAS LEFT US! (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5484)

*bawls*

Why did you leave Jesus, WHY?!?!? Why did you join the armies of Satan!?! WHYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*sobs in corner for hours*

I know wha you're thinking, Lay. You're sitting there, all smug-like, going "Ha ha!" from your fortress of satanic evil! YOU HAVE STOLEN JESUS! How did you corrupt his soul?!? HOW?!? It must have been the $52 million. That's it, the money! IT IS CURSED MONEY! AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!

At least Curt is still with us, though. And Manny. And David.

Let's go Cubs! Never mind, you people would never understand.

TIOR, I'll give you a piece of Kansas under one condition: You put your capital city there...

*Hehehehehehe...*

Burn.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10154282#post10154282

A little bit of profit, what say?

My RP where I show Varsolan conquest of former Celtayoshi Africa.

I thought Bjorn already had that. Do you really want me and UER aiding Bjorn in destroying your nation?

I enjoy your words...... they bring joy to my life!

Do Elephanti Hindustan LCAs in the sky over Kigali do the same thing?

Pushka, this will seriously fuck up my nation, drowning my capitol and all other port cities. Aside from that it would take a ridiculously large amount of time and energy for such a meaningless project, It won't be completed for 100s of years if you're trying to melt it all. If you're just melting a certain small region, go right ahead its your money, but Russian vessels will not be allowed into Visara's claims in the Arctic Ocean (specifically my oil-drilling platforms) to complete this task that would effectivelly drown every major coastal city in the world if completed efficiently.

Don't worry, it won't. I already started digging channels in my land for extra water to go to, i will creat new lakes, kind of like they did in Egypt with that uber hydroelectric damn back in the 50s or 60s i think. Anyways, i won't melt the icecaps, i will only melt the ice on my territorial waters, and not all of it either. Just enough to let my ships through. If you let me do the same to your waters we will both have better naval access to the rest of the world.

And no Lay, you're wrong, you can only heat up one area, warm water is lighter then cold water, it will float up and the heat will be defeated rather quickly by the subzero temperatures of the arctic ocean, however in the process it will help soften up the ice in the area i am clearing up.

Anyways i just talked to Lay on AIM and explained how i am going to do this to him. He still doesn't like this idea but atleast doesn't think that i am out to flood the world anymore.

Legend

Red: General announcements (21-day, decree 12, etc.)
Blue: Response to your posts (claims, threads, etc.)
Green: Service announcements (to all, RPs, etc.)









VL [Post 8265]: Uncool but okay you will be back I hope.
Bjornoya [Post 8266]: Oki doki. I just realized though. You are seriously above your limits. You are at 1,844,840.60 square miles with this and you have to be under 1,000,000.00. Err up to you what you want to axe.
NR [Post 8268]: Claim added.
Kreynoria [Post 8271]: Thread added.
Elephantum [Post 8275]: Claim added.
RomeW [Post 8280]: No problem man. It was worth it to get Quebec. I have, after so long, completed the Empire. You can draw a line from Ireland to Peru and everything you touch will be Empire of Layarteb in some way, shape, or form.
TIOR [Post 8308/8317]: Squornshelous has Wake Island.
TIOR/Tyrandis [Post 8317]: Okay.
Hiiran [Post 8324]: Already claimed by Bjorn.
Pushka [Post 8326]: Thread added.
Varsola [Post 8342]: Thread added.






How many people here use the Metric System?

Anyways i just talked to Lay on AIM and explained how i am going to do this to him. He still doesn't like this idea but atleast doesn't think that i am out to flood the world anymore.

I wouldn't go that far. I still think it's the dumbest plan ever that will get out of your control. But since its Christmas I am going to just wait until the rest of E2 gets back.

Well lets see i did proove to you that its feasible to do such without flooding the world didn't i? The rest is your opinion which i don't care much for anyways.

The very notion that this can flood the world is ridiculus. I am creating an opening no more then several kilometers in diameter, i am digging up channels for extra water to go through and no matter what you believe in Layatreb, hot water has a tendency to become cold then it comes in contact with ice and cold air, calculations can be made to determine how much water you need to heat up to what temperate to clear an x area of the ocean from ice. You for some reason think that it will go on being hot for ever until all the ice caps melted. Thats not how nature works, buddy.

Anyways, to all you haters outthere, please take the fact that my actions will not have any effect on the globe into account before starting to gang jump on me just because you heard something.

I thought Bjorn already had that. Do you really want me and UER aiding Bjorn in destroying your nation?

Careful Hiiraan, the imperalistic swine are known for ganging up on smaller nations to enforce their will on them. Then they'll blackmail you by saying that you can accept land A for land B...if not prepare to face war

Its how i lost Slovakia...even though i was the most peaceful nation in all of E2 back then. I had 12 or so nations all pushing for an NG invasion! How i became the scorge of Europe all of a sudden...i have no idea. No since being a dove doesn't work...im now a warhawk, and isreal is bound to fall in Pantheaa hands. And i also have a state sponsered terrorist organization The Brotherhood of Nod...ready to wreak havoc on all who enter Pantheaa.

Anyways my point is...your not going to win in a war. The imperalist will gang up on you and like lions on a prey

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10156916#post10156916

Non aggression pact between VCO and TOA [Eather II]

I am tired of waiting, NG and SB both said they would arrive so i just assumed they have.

Cotland, Layatreb, NG, Marimia, Bjorn, Reagonica, Elephantum, Hirgizstan, SB, Neuvo Rica and everyone else belonging to either alliance please join in.

A special announcement:


Merry Christmas

RomeW [Post 8280]: No problem man. It was worth it to get Quebec. I have, after so long, completed the Empire. You can draw a line from Ireland to Peru and everything you touch will be Empire of Layarteb in some way, shape, or form.
How many people here use the Metric System?
[/list]
[/color]

1) So you're like "the Empire on which the Sun never Sets" for Earth II? I like it. What do you have in the Carribbean, though?

2) The ancient Romans actually had their own measurement system...if I can figure it out, I'll be using it too.

How many people here use the Metric System?

I do, why?

Well lets see i did proove to you that its feasible to do such without flooding the world didn't i? The rest is your opinion which i don't care much for anyways.

The very notion that this can flood the world is ridiculus. I am creating an opening no more then several kilometers in diameter, i am digging up channels for extra water to go through and no matter what you believe in Layatreb, hot water has a tendency to become cold then it comes in contact with ice and cold air, calculations can be made to determine how much water you need to heat up to what temperate to clear an x area of the ocean from ice. You for some reason think that it will go on being hot for ever until all the ice caps melted. Thats not how nature works, buddy.

Anyways, to all you haters outthere, please take the fact that my actions will not have any effect on the globe into account before starting to gang jump on me just because you heard something.

No you proved to yourself. You just assumed I believed you.

A special announcement:


Merry Christmas



1) So you're like "the Empire on which the Sun never Sets" for Earth II? I like it. What do you have in the Carribbean, though?

2) The ancient Romans actually had their own measurement system...if I can figure it out, I'll be using it too.

1. All of it except for most of Cuba, the Cayman Islands, and Barbados.

Careful Hiiraan, the imperalistic swine are known for ganging up on smaller nations to enforce their will on them. Then they'll blackmail you by saying that you can accept land A for land B...if not prepare to face war

I do hope you didn't just call the United Eastasian Republic 'imperialistic swine'; we liberate land from imperialists in the same way you do....or is Pantheaa one of those states where everyone who isn't Pantheaan is an imperialistic swine? If so, that's rather elitist for a socialist nation.

I have no interest in African land whatsoever; I would only get involved if Bjornoya requested assistance.

Tell him how it is, Marimaia.

No you proved to yourself. You just assumed I believed you.

Believe me or not, i am still right.

I use the imperial system simply because thats what we use here, and it's more familiar.

Making my nation contigous, or connecting Iran and India, would mean hostility with TLS and NR, which I'm not willing to do, although mass land purchases/swaps would work.

Varsola, on the other hand...

Bahrain and S. India are my homelands, dating back to the time of Sumer (probably can trace my history farther back than any other nation here)

Slow on the draw are we?

Since it appears no-one else has I'll claim Chad.

Can i get some backing on the Project Liedohod? TOA is having a fun time condemning me for no reason.

When you're wrong, you're wrong. Sorry.

I personally can trace my family history back to the 9th Century or so. Perhaps earlier.

When you're wrong, you're wrong. Sorry.

The thing is that scientifically speaking i am not wrong, the only way i might be wrong is if Lay uses his uber godly mod powers so laws of thermodynamics we have here on earth don't apply to EII. Seriously, its funny to see how everybody seems to think that i am wrong yet they fail to put up a decent argument against me (backed up with facts and such), Lay did it once but i explained to him why he incorrect, after that he just started saying that he doesn't believe me, without puting forward a counter argument to what i said.

I use the imperial system simply because thats what we use here, and it's more familiar.

Making my nation contigous, or connecting Iran and India, would mean hostility with TLS and NR, which I'm not willing to do, although mass land purchases/swaps would work.

Varsola, on the other hand...

Bahrain and S. India are my homelands, dating back to the time of Sumer (probably can trace my history farther back than any other nation here)

I use the American Standard system (basically the Imperial system, just funky name).

Hey everybody! I finished my exams (On the 23rd) so I am back to RPing.

The thing is that scientifically speaking i am not wrong, the only way i might be wrong is if Lay uses his uber godly mod powers so laws of thermodynamics we have here on earth don't apply to EII. Seriously, its funny to see how everybody seems to think that i am wrong yet they fail to put up a decent argument against me (backed up with facts and such), Lay did it once but i explained to him why he incorrect, after that he just started saying that he doesn't believe me, without puting forward a counter argument to what i said.

You wouldn't accept a correct answer or theory if it bit you in the ass. Obviously you don't know about thermodynamics because basically what I said about them completely defies what you just said. I said thermodynamics are far more than just that whereas you seem to say, "It's NS so it's okay." Go to wikipedia. Look up thermodynamics. Read throughly. Repeat if necessary.

You wouldn't accept a correct answer or theory if it bit you in the ass. Obviously you don't know about thermodynamics because basically what I said about them completely defies what you just said. I said thermodynamics are far more than just that whereas you seem to say, "It's NS so it's okay." Go to wikipedia. Look up thermodynamics. Read throughly. Repeat if necessary.

I don't know anything about thermodynamics because my statement contradicts what you say (in addition what you said was rather vague, and not related to the topic) ? Well actually, all that prooves is that YOU are the one that doesn't know anything about thermodynamics. While you seem to believe that warm water will never cool there are certain laws of nature that contradict your statement. I said its NS so its okay because you said that this system will not be perfect in RL, well first of all nothing is perfect, second of all it doesn't need to be perfect to work and not flood the world, especially since there is absolutely no reason why it would as you claim flood the world with the preventative measures i am taking. You have backed down on our AIM debate, now you're just coming back with more bullshit. This is really a trait of yours, then you don't understand something, or are proven wrong you call the one who is right an idiot and run away, imploying a denial strategy, this happened then we debated the WW2, during which debate you presented zero facts while i presented plenty and this most recent issue we having now is just another example of your failure to accept facts.

You think that water doesn't cool then it comes in contact with cold air and ice. Seriously, why the hell are you even trying to make an argument, your side of this is ridiculus beyond belief.

Brazil...is it claimed? It's gray on the map.

My schedule has cleared up considerably, and I may be able to participate again. I'm not claiming it, just checking its availability.

it has its own map, labeled brazil

i could give you a handful of pacific islands, though

Alright Lay let me explain this to you in simpler terms you might be able to understand.

Gulf Stream, you know about it right? It goes through arctic and near arctic areas and never freezes, yet the disbalance of temperature created by it in those areas does not cause any sort of chain reaction. The very idea of chain reaction goes against the second law of thermodynamics, it would assume that the increase in the internal energy of a system will not be heat energy minus the work that is done by the system, but will assume that the system does no work, while infact at the same time you claim that it will do work, by saying that it will melt away all the ice.

Anyways, if a volume of ice to be melted is known and how much water you need to heat up to what temperature to melt lets say 1 square meter of ice in 24 hours is known, it can be determined how much water you need to heat up to melt away the X volume of ice in 24 hours. Its just an example, i am not talking about 24 hours, i am talking about several years in addition the amount of heat i will be adding to the system will only supposed to soften up the ice not melt the whole thing away, the hozes will do finish the job. This is as simple as it gets, how you fail to understand this is beyond me.

it has its own map, labeled brazil

i could give you a handful of pacific islands, though

Ah, didn't notice that.

Thanks for the offer, but no thanks.

Ah, didn't notice that.

Thanks for the offer, but no thanks.

I could give you New Zealand, if ye be wanting.

Alright Lay let me explain this to you in simpler terms you might be able to understand.

Gulf Stream, you know about it right? It goes through arctic and near arctic areas and never freezes, yet the disbalance of temperature created by it in those areas does not cause any sort of chain reaction. The very idea of chain reaction goes against the second law of thermodynamics, it would assume that the increase in the internal energy of a system will not be heat energy minus the work that is done by the system, but will assume that the system does no work, while infact at the same time you claim that it will do work, by saying that it will melt away all the ice.

Anyways, if a volume of ice to be melted is known and how much water you need to heat up to what temperature to melt lets say 1 square meter of ice in 24 hours is known, it can be determined how much water you need to heat up to melt away the X volume of ice in 24 hours. Its just an example, i am not talking about 24 hours, i am talking about several years in addition the amount of heat i will be adding to the system will only supposed to soften up the ice not melt the whole thing away, the hozes will do finish the job. This is as simple as it gets, how you fail to understand this is beyond me.

OOC: You are either completely twisting my words or you didn't understand/listen to a word a said. So to make it simple, here is my argument against your idea.

http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Graphics/Nation-States/Role-Playing/Proyekt%20Liedohod/diagram-001.gif

Diagram One

First we start off with a full ice sheet. Let's say, for the sake of argument, this area is 50 km x 50 km (1 km = 10 pixel). Ice may be between 1 and 4 meters with the thickest being towards the top (north).

http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Graphics/Nation-States/Role-Playing/Proyekt%20Liedohod/diagram-002.gif

Diagram Two

In diagram two we have an area 5 km x 6 km that must be cleared and made into water. So, initially, warm water is used to warm this area and melt the ice. Calculations can be done for the precise amount of water needed to do this and temperature. Let's say it requires water as warm as 3°C to warm this area. Such it is done.

Now, as we are aware the cold ice and Arctic air will cool the water again and cause it to ice over, again. In order for this to be prevented, the water must be kept above 0°C. If you were to allow the water to go under 0°C you can use those hoses again to warm up the water and allow it to once again return to liquid form.

http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Graphics/Nation-States/Role-Playing/Proyekt%20Liedohod/diagram-003.gif

Diagram Three

Now because the water in the box is above 0°C, it is naturally warmer than the ice around it. The water is touching the ice around it and will gradually melt more of the ice that it is touching. As the ice melts, it will naturally cool the water and provide a reciprocal reaction, which will spread back to the desired area, causing that area to become colder, therefore requiring warm water or air to be put over 0°C. The warm air and water will diffuse outward, again, and now because there is more of a barrier between the water and the ice, it will require more of a distance to cool. As the water inside the desired area is maintained above 0°C, it will always be in contact with ice around it and because it is warmer, it will cause the ice to melt more and more and more.

Conclusion

So you see, the warmer water will always be in contact with cooler ice. As it comes in contact with the ice it will melt a little off, cool, and cause a reciprocal reaction throughout the entire area, requiring more warm water or air to break the ice. Then, it will continue further. Despite the warm air rising and rapidly cooling as it does, air will not take a sudden 90° turn and fly up to the sky, it will go up at a steep angle, yes, but not that steep. The force of the hot air out of the hoses or delivery method will push the air over the ice and rise as it does so, moving out and out like this.

http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Graphics/Nation-States/Role-Playing/Proyekt%20Liedohod/diagram-004.gif

Initially, because of the force, not much will rise. As it goes over the distance and the force behind it grows weaker it will go up more and more rather than outward. In addition, the cold temperature of the ice it goes over will cool the air. However, as there is less and less ice formed, the hot air has less resistance and will go further before it begins to fully rise. In addition, winds and air currents will push the air flow into certain directions with additional measures and angles.

The ice will provide the best resistance to the water and air, cooling it down quickly. However, as more and more ice melts because it is required to cool down the warm water and air, the amount of resistance will decline, gradually making the area larger. It may take months, years, it could take hours in the event of something bad.

Possible Scenarios

Mechanical Error: Valve for water or air remains open due to broken switch, ungreased bearing, or what not. Significant amount of warm water & air is released, causing a MUCH larger area to be melted. Machinery requires lubrication, maintanence, and careful monitoring. Stuff does break down, even if it is perfectly monitored and we are not working in a perfect system.

Human Error: Human error is very dangerous and could be problematic. Human error is what led to Chernobyl and Three Mile Island and countless other disasters, despite the best efforts of safety systems. Sometimes, human error has been checked by safety systems (Three Mile Island) and in other cases it has not. The problem here is the fact that nobody is perfect and people do make mistakes.

Terrorist Strike: Terrorism could cause a major problem whereby terrorists cause mechanical failure and thereby release more water or air. It is possible.

Implications

In any scenario, the entire world will be affected, not just Russia. The Russian coastline will be first affected as water levels rise. However, as the vast amount of fresh water is released into the ocean system, it will not only throw off the salination levels, which is what the entire climate of the world is dependent on (North Atlantic Current), which is dependent on the salt levels. Not only will ocean levels rise throughout the world but the salination levels will be thrown off, causing a possible catastrophic climate shift.

The Gulf Stream & NAC work as such. As it travels north, the winds over the water cause water to evaporate, which leads to higher salt levels, herego, more density. The colder water now descends below its normal level and continues back around until it reaches warmer water, which causes the colder water to warm and rise again, as its salt is diffused through more water and so on and so fourth. The reason the Gulf Stream water never freezes is that its salinity levels are through the roof and it descends deep underneath the surface. The salt levels alone keep it from freezing. By adding more fresh water you throw off those levels.

The entire thing is hinged on the balance of salt levels. As more fresh water is introduced the salt water to fresh water ratio drops thereby completely causing an imbalance in the salt levels. This is actually one of the major theories on what global warming could do. In real life, with the way it is going, this won't happen any time soon. However, an increase in the amount of fresh water and warmer air in the North Pole will cause this process to be sped up significantly. This cycle is a natural cycle that happens throughout Earth over periods of time as the Earth goes on its cooling-warming-cooling-warming cycles. Barring outside influence (asteroid), this is what causes Ice Ages.

I don't see any physical way of containing the warmer water so that it doesn't touch any ice. It will naturally be touching the ice and it will gradually wear it away. In order to be successful, this venture has to keep this area of water, albeit small, at a temperature above 0°C, to prevent freezing. The water will always be touching the ice around it though, there is no way to contain it save for giant, metal, non-heat conductive walls around the original body of water, thereby isolating it, which is just beyond feasible in every aspect. You aren't dealing with a completely isolated system here whereby its parameters will affect those around it.

OOC: You are either completely twisting my words or you didn't understand/listen to a word a said. So to make it simple, here is my argument against your idea.

http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Graphics/Nation-States/Role-Playing/Proyekt%20Liedohod/diagram-001.gif

Diagram One

First we start off with a full ice sheet. Let's say, for the sake of argument, this area is 50 km x 50 km (1 km = 10 pixel). Ice may be between 1 and 4 meters with the thickest being towards the top (north).

http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Graphics/Nation-States/Role-Playing/Proyekt%20Liedohod/diagram-002.gif

Diagram Two

In diagram two we have an area 5 km x 6 km that must be cleared and made into water. So, initially, warm water is used to warm this area and melt the ice. Calculations can be done for the precise amount of water needed to do this and temperature. Let's say it requires water as warm as 3°C to warm this area. Such it is done.

Now, as we are aware the cold ice and Arctic air will cool the water again and cause it to ice over, again. In order for this to be prevented, the water must be kept above 0°C. If you were to allow the water to go under 0°C you can use those hoses again to warm up the water and allow it to once again return to liquid form.

http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Graphics/Nation-States/Role-Playing/Proyekt%20Liedohod/diagram-003.gif

Diagram Three

Now because the water in the box is above 0°C, it is naturally warmer than the ice around it. The water is touching the ice around it and will gradually melt more of the ice that it is touching. As the ice melts, it will naturally cool the water and provide a reciprocal reaction, which will spread back to the desired area, causing that area to become colder, therefore requiring warm water or air to be put over 0°C. The warm air and water will diffuse outward, again, and now because there is more of a barrier between the water and the ice, it will require more of a distance to cool. As the water inside the desired area is maintained above 0°C, it will always be in contact with ice around it and because it is warmer, it will cause the ice to melt more and more and more.

Conclusion

So you see, the warmer water will always be in contact with cooler ice. As it comes in contact with the ice it will melt a little off, cool, and cause a reciprocal reaction throughout the entire area, requiring more warm water or air to break the ice. Then, it will continue further. Despite the warm air rising and rapidly cooling as it does, air will not take a sudden 90° turn and fly up to the sky, it will go up at a steep angle, yes, but not that steep. The force of the hot air out of the hoses or delivery method will push the air over the ice and rise as it does so, moving out and out like this.

http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Graphics/Nation-States/Role-Playing/Proyekt%20Liedohod/diagram-004.gif

Initially, because of the force, not much will rise. As it goes over the distance and the force behind it grows weaker it will go up more and more rather than outward. In addition, the cold temperature of the ice it goes over will cool the air. However, as there is less and less ice formed, the hot air has less resistance and will go further before it begins to fully rise. In addition, winds and air currents will push the air flow into certain directions with additional measures and angles.

The ice will provide the best resistance to the water and air, cooling it down quickly. However, as more and more ice melts because it is required to cool down the warm water and air, the amount of resistance will decline, gradually making the area larger. It may take months, years, it could take hours in the event of something bad.

Possible Scenarios

Mechanical Error: Valve for water or air remains open due to broken switch, ungreased bearing, or what not. Significant amount of warm water & air is released, causing a MUCH larger area to be melted. Machinery requires lubrication, maintanence, and careful monitoring. Stuff does break down, even if it is perfectly monitored and we are not working in a perfect system.

Human Error: Human error is very dangerous and could be problematic. Human error is what led to Chernobyl and Three Mile Island and countless other disasters, despite the best efforts of safety systems. Sometimes, human error has been checked by safety systems (Three Mile Island) and in other cases it has not. The problem here is the fact that nobody is perfect and people do make mistakes.

Terrorist Strike: Terrorism could cause a major problem whereby terrorists cause mechanical failure and thereby release more water or air. It is possible.

Implications

In any scenario, the entire world will be affected, not just Russia. The Russian coastline will be first affected as water levels rise. However, as the vast amount of fresh water is released into the ocean system, it will not only throw off the salination levels, which is what the entire climate of the world is dependent on (North Atlantic Current), which is dependent on the salt levels. Not only will ocean levels rise throughout the world but the salination levels will be thrown off, causing a possible catastrophic climate shift.

The Gulf Stream & NAC work as such. As it travels north, the winds over the water cause water to evaporate, which leads to higher salt levels, herego, more density. The colder water now descends below its normal level and continues back around until it reaches warmer water, which causes the colder water to warm and rise again, as its salt is diffused through more water and so on and so fourth. The reason the Gulf Stream water never freezes is that its salinity levels are through the roof and it descends deep underneath the surface. The salt levels alone keep it from freezing. By adding more fresh water you throw off those levels.

The entire thing is hinged on the balance of salt levels. As more fresh water is introduced the salt water to fresh water ratio drops thereby completely causing an imbalance in the salt levels. This is actually one of the major theories on what global warming could do. In real life, with the way it is going, this won't happen any time soon. However, an increase in the amount of fresh water and warmer air in the North Pole will cause this process to be sped up significantly. This cycle is a natural cycle that happens throughout Earth over periods of time as the Earth goes on its cooling-warming-cooling-warming cycles. Barring outside influence (asteroid), this is what causes Ice Ages.

I don't see any physical way of containing the warmer water so that it doesn't touch any ice. It will naturally be touching the ice and it will gradually wear it away. In order to be successful, this venture has to keep this area of water, albeit small, at a temperature above 0°C, to prevent freezing. The water will always be touching the ice around it though, there is no way to contain it save for giant, metal, non-heat conductive walls around the original body of water, thereby isolating it, which is just beyond feasible in every aspect. You aren't dealing with a completely isolated system here whereby its parameters will affect those around it.


Sweet Jesus, that was thorough.

Sweet Jesus, that was thorough.

It has to be.

Pelep-mozambique+swazialand are also options

You're making this too easy for me lay. Freezing point of salted oceanic water is lower then of the fresh water that the ice is made of. That means that oceanic water can be kept at below zero degrees celcius temperatures and not freeze into ice, while at the same time not melt away the fresh water ice. Is this enough for you?

We got bored at work today so this is what we made up:

http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/Graphics/The%20Outlaw/General/idiottolerancelimitmeter.gif

Good job, Lay!

You're making this too easy for me lay. Freezing point of salted oceanic water is lower then of the fresh water that the ice is made of. That means that oceanic water can be kept at below zero degrees celcius temperatures and not freeze into ice, while at the same time not melt away the fresh water ice. Is this enough for you?

You are melting ice so you are adding more fresh water to the water. In order to melt the ice, which has some salt in it. In order for water to freeze to begin with, the salt levels have to be low. And the ice you are melting is the same salinity composition as that 5 km away except as you go north and the ice is thicker, the salt levels are lower. In that water up there, as the entire North Atlantic Current thing says, salt levels increase in the actual water causing it to sink.

Thats hillarious, once again can't put up an argument start the insulting.

Here is a fact for you. Oceans usually freeze at -1.8 degrees Celsius. That kind of shatters away all of the explanations you gave me.

You are melting ice so you are adding more fresh water to the water. In order to melt the ice, which has some salt in it. In order for water to freeze to begin with, the salt levels have to be low. And the ice you are melting is the same salinity composition as that 5 km away except as you go north and the ice is thicker, the salt levels are lower. In that water up there, as the entire North Atlantic Current thing says, salt levels increase in the actual water causing it to sink.

You just made zero sense. Either way, you can calculate how much water you need to warm up to what level in order for it not to melt any ice outside of the area you need melted. The edges of the melted area will be below 0 degrees celcius so salt water won't freeze. Got you're so retarded this is ridiculus.

The ice will provide the best resistance to the water and air, cooling it down quickly. However, as more and more ice melts because it is required to cool down the warm water and air, the amount of resistance will decline, gradually making the area larger. It may take months, years, it could take hours in the event of something bad.

The thing is that the water levels will never rise.

I don't really know how to make this much simpler. The area of ice i want to be cleared gets cleared off by the panels and the hozes, then new ice starts to form, then i use hozes to wash that away. How is this going to cause flooding again? Warm water will spread? Heh, you made no coherent point that prooves such.

Thats hillarious, once again can't put up an argument start the insulting.

Here is a fact for you. Oceans usually freeze at -1.8 degrees Celsius. That kind of shatters away all of the explanations you gave me.

You are melting ice. That adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice.

Lay's right, Pushka.

I really don't want the largest city in the world (neo-carthage, which is also my capital) to be drowned beneath the waves. I really, really don't.

You are melting ice. That adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice. Which melts it and adds more fresh water, reducing salinity, raising the freezing point. Which is now in contact with more ice.

If the water is warmed up to a certain temperature and the edges of the area are kept below zero yet still kept from freezing, this will not happen.

TLS he is wrong.

If the water is warmed up to a certain temperature and the edges of the area are kept below zero yet still kept from freezing, this will not happen.

TLS he is wrong.

Um Pushka. Remove your head from your ass. How can you keep an edge below zero if what it is touching is above zero? You talk about my magic? Damn dude that defies all laws of physics, chemistry, gravity, and any other law that exists.

fresh water can be pumped out of the area and closer to the coastline that will slow the process down, either way there is really no reason why ice would melt past the area needed to be melted if the calculations are done correctly.

fresh water can be pumped out of the area and closer to the coastline that will slow the process down, either way there is really no reason why ice would melt past the area needed to be melted if the calculations are done correctly.

You can't just pump out the fresh water. The fresh water mixes with the salt water. Your idea is so far beyond possible that it's not even close. It's magic.

You can't just pump out the fresh water. The fresh water mixes with the salt water. Your idea is so far beyond possible that it's not even close. It's magic.

If you could just pump out the fresh water the entire issue of RL Global Warming desalination would even be an issue.

Um Pushka. Remove your head from your ass. How can you keep an edge below zero if what it is touching is above zero? You talk about my magic? Damn dude that defies all laws of physics, chemistry, gravity, and any other law that exists.

What is above zero? Water? It doesn't have to be. You can do plenty of things such as pumping water from the deiced area to increase the salinity levels. As long as ocean water can be kept from freezing at below 0 celcius it will not melt the ice. Its all a matter of how much you want it.

What is above zero? Water? It doesn't have to be. You can do plenty of things such as pumping water from the deiced area to increase the salinity levels. As long as ocean water can be kept from freezing at below 0 celcius it will not melt the ice. Its all a matter of how much you want it.

So you are going to increase the salt in the water for the fresh water you put in?

If you could just pump out the fresh water the entire issue of RL Global Warming desalination would even be an issue.

I am not talking of pumping out just fresh water, i am talking of relocation the mixed water to a different area, closer to the coastline, while replacing it with less mixed water.

So you are going to increase the salt in the water for the fresh water you put in?

No, i will pump out the fresh/salty mixture and pump in the salty water, all i need is for that water to not freeze at -1 degree celcius and i got myself a system.

I am not talking of pumping out just fresh water, i am talking of relocation the mixed water to a different area, closer to the coastline, while replacing it with less mixed water.

It'll still mix with the tides. Basically you'll just be moving the fresh water from one area to the other, the tides will come in, mix the water, and you can keep going with that, futile and impossible task, unless you use magic.

You know everything about magic, you made a whole army disappear.

Anyways you just made no sense. I will pump out water from the area and into the area there it will not have any affect on the water at the edge, once i have established my zone and dumped all the fresh water i could into the system there will be no more fresh water to dump and since my sea water i pumped in will be able to keep from freezing at sub zero temperatures, and the ice will still only melt at above zero temperatures i will not have any sort of a chain reaction. Meanwhile the water mixed with fresh water is pumped into the channels i created. Its really simple, no magic involved.

So you have body of water (A), which is your target area. 5km². You raise it to -1.7°C. Which melts the ice. Now this seriously adds fresh water to the area, lowering the salt levels. Now you somehow move that water away and allow the salt levels to rise. But basically water will mix immediately, once the ice melts. Now as the tides go back and fourth the water you pumped out is only going to get pulled back and mixed, thereby maintain the same balance as it was before with no net gain but only a net loss. Which now means that that water will freeze quicker, meaning the water now has to be warmer. Which melts more ice. Which reduces salinity. You pump the water and it mixes with the tides.

Q: Is fire hot?

You know everything about magic, you made a whole army disappear.

Not really. #1 I never RP'd them going into the land yet so I haven't made anything disappear. #2 I said on AIM (OOC) that I could do it without you seeing it (i.e. satellites).

Umm so no...you only hear what you want to hear.

So you have body of water (A), which is your target area. 5km². You raise it to -1.7°C. Which melts the ice. Now this seriously adds fresh water to the area, lowering the salt levels. Now you somehow move that water away and allow the salt levels to rise. But basically water will mix immediately, once the ice melts. Now as the tides go back and fourth the water you pumped out is only going to get pulled back and mixed, thereby maintain the same balance as it was before with no net gain but only a net loss. Which now means that that water will freeze quicker, meaning the water now has to be warmer. Which melts more ice. Which reduces salinity. You pump the water and it mixes with the tides.

Q: Is fire hot?

-1.7 degrees Celcius will not melt the ice, last time i checked the melting and freezing point for fresh water was 0 degrees celcius.

Now you are completely twisting what i said. I raise temperature to above 0 C, ice melts, i clear the area i wanted to clear (the heat distribution will not be equal temperatures at the edge will be very close to 0), now i don't want any more ice to melt. Now i pump the fresh water mixed with salted water into the specially created inland channels and pump salty water in from unaffected areas. I don't need that water to be perfectly salted, it can be mixed with fresh water as long as its freezing point is below 0 degrees celcius. Now i have a balance. The ice won't melt because water around it doesn't freeze at the temperatures below zero at which i keep it, and the water won't freeze because its salt content allows it to keep a freezing point below 0 degrees. Do you understand now?

Not really. #1 I never RP'd them going into the land yet so I haven't made anything disappear. #2 I said on AIM (OOC) that I could do it without you seeing it (i.e. satellites).

Umm so no...you only hear what you want to hear.

Yeah you said that you could do it without me seeing it, thats magic.

Yeah you said that you could do it without me seeing it, thats magic.

Have I done it yet?

*Sigh*
Look, YOU'RE WRONG PUSHKA. GIVE UP.
Your scheme simply won't work because of what Layarteb said and because of the sheer enormity of what you're trying to pull.

If you really want to melt the polar ice caps, I suggest enormous amounts of Co2 pollution.

You seem to think that the ice will melt in an hour, i am talking about a several year long process. I will have plenty of time to pump any amount of water anythere i want.

-1.7 degrees Celcius will not melt the ice, last time i checked the melting and freezing point for fresh water was 0 degrees celcius.

Now you are completely twisting what i said. I raise temperature to above 0 C, ice melts, i clear the area i wanted to clear (the heat distribution will not be equal temperatures at the edge will be very close to 0), now i don't want any more ice to melt. Now i pump the fresh water mixed with salted water into the specially created inland channels and pump salty water in from unaffected areas. I don't need that water to be perfectly salted, it can be mixed with fresh water as long as its freezing point is below 0 degrees celcius. Now i have a balance. The ice won't melt because water around it doesn't freeze at the temperatures below zero at which i keep it, and the water won't freeze because its salt content allows it to keep a freezing point below 0 degrees. Do you understand now?

Pushka nobody understands you because you don't make sense. Please don't go into nuclear engineering, you'll blow up the whole world because you won't know what you are doing.

*Sigh*
Look, YOU'RE WRONG PUSHKA. GIVE UP.
Your scheme simply won't work because of what Layarteb said and because of the sheer enormity of what you're trying to pull.

If you really want to melt the polar ice caps, I suggest enormous amounts of Co2 pollution.

It doesn't matter that he isn't in Earth II nor would it matter if anyone outside of Earth II posted because this matter superceedes Earth II. The question is a question that could apply to anything.

*Sigh*
Look, YOU'RE WRONG PUSHKA. GIVE UP.
Your scheme simply won't work because of what Layarteb said and because of the sheer enormity of what you're trying to pull.

If you really want to melt the polar ice caps, I suggest enormous amounts of Co2 pollution.

Now this is what i find ridiculus, without reading my explanations you make a statement. I am not wrong, Layatreb is, if you want proof i repeated it several thousand times already.

Pushka nobody understands you because you don't make sense. Please don't go into nuclear engineering, you'll blow up the whole world because you won't know what you are doing.

I am following a simple logic. Water doesn't melt below 0 C, water around the edges of the area i am trying to melt will have temperatures below 0 C, it will not freeze because of its salt content. This is really simple, if it doesn't make sense to you, you should go back to high school.

I am following a simple logic. Water doesn't melt below 0 C, water around the edges of the area i am trying to melt will have temperatures below 0 C, it will not freeze because of its salt content. This is really simple, if it doesn't make sense to you, you should go back to high school.

Russian logic.

Russian logic.

Oh...ah...can you please tell me what part of it is wrong? Your argument is that fresh water will mix with salted water and that will up the freezing point. Well as long as i can pump that mixture out to there it will not affect the edges of the area i am clearing the freezing point will not go above 0, a balance can be found.

In america ice melts below 0 degrees?

Pushka nobody understands you because you don't make sense. Please don't go into nuclear engineering, you'll blow up the whole world because you won't know what you are doing.

actually if I may bump into this thread what he is saying makes perfect sense (albeit rather costly you could just paint the poles black to absorb heat)

actually if I may bump into this thread what he is saying makes perfect sense (albeit rather costly you could just paint the poles black to absorb heat)

Thank you

actually if I may bump into this thread what he is saying makes perfect sense (albeit rather costly you could just paint the poles black to absorb heat)

Okay um kind of confused. Your first part I understand. The second part about painting the poles black to absorb the heat would definitely melt it all.

Was all that sarcasm or?

Official Response from the Holy Republic of Hawdawg

It is alarming to us that the Pushkan Government is attempting to begin a project that has global ramifications without international consent. Harmful things like aerial nuclear testing have been banned for years because the fallout doesn't recognize borders. We too are afraid that this project, no matter how narrow in scope it is, will have far greater harm on the environment as a whole for the planet, particularly the Northern European Countries. We depend on the Sea to meet our various needs, any tampering with that delicate balance should be carefully monitored. We have determined the Plan brought forth by the Pushkan Government will cause flooding in many coastal regions, upset the fishing industry in the Nordic States, and could even effect the Earth's Median Temperature. With these large global issues looming, we ask that Pushkan Government cease all operations regarding this plan. The concern for the Global Environment outweighs the need for Naval Port.

Sincerely,

Josey Wales
Prime Minister
Holy Republic of Hawdawg

Lay am i gonna get an explanation or did you finally budge to reason? (in which case i expect you to act in immature way, deny everything and start throwing insults without a hint of a decent counter argument, you have done this before, you're not that original)

What Pushka says may be possible, in theory, but in practice it would be impossible. Kinda like communism.

Okay um kind of confused. Your first part I understand. The second part about painting the poles black to absorb the heat would definitely melt it all.

Was all that sarcasm or?

the second part may sound mad but its all to do with colour really black absorbs heat but reflects radiation (which is why the colour has an absence of light) that is why skin tones set to different levels of Sunlight and why solar panels are Black

Lay am i gonna get an explanation or did you finally budge to reason? (in which case i expect you to act in immature way, deny everything and start throwing insults without a hint of a decent counter argument, you have done this before, you're not that original)

Everything I posted is a counter-argument. We already started throwing insults at each other. What I haven't had from you is anything other than "You are wrong it will work." Whereas mine is "You are wrong it will work, here is why."

the second part may sound mad but its all to do with colour really black absorbs heat but reflects radiation (which is why the colour has an absence of light) that is why skin tones set to different levels of Sunlight and why solar panels are Black

And heat melts ice...which will melt it and cause it to flood worse and quicker than even his plan.

Official Response from the Holy Republic of Hawdawg

It is alarming to us that the Pushkan Government is attempting to begin a project that has global ramifications without international consent. Harmful things like aerial nuclear testing have been banned for years because the fallout doesn't recognize borders. We too are afraid that this project, no matter how narrow in scope it is, will have far greater harm on the environment as a whole for the planet, particularly the Northern European Countries. We depend on the Sea to meet our various needs, any tampering with that delicate balance should be carefully monitored. We have determined the Plan brought forth by the Pushkan Government will cause flooding in many coastal regions, upset the fishing industry in the Nordic States, and could even effect the Earth's Median Temperature. With these large global issues looming, we ask that Pushkan Government cease all operations regarding this plan. The concern for the Global Environment outweighs the need for Naval Port.

Sincerely,

Josey Wales
Prime Minister
Holy Republic of Hawdawg

Response of the Russian Federation government

We have already agreed to nation's of Hirgizstan and Armed Republics of Soviet Bloc request for us to halt this project and consult with the international community. The meeting is scheduled to take place in Voronej next month. In addition i would like to add that it is very unlikely that we are convinced of not following through with our project since the claim that this might cause any sort of global flooding is completely non-credible and those who make it can not stand their ground then facing a counter-argument from our side. I hope that by the end of the already scheduled meeting the global community will join us in our attempts to better the world. Think of the trading possibility, think of the possibilities for fishing business and for oil business. Either way, we shall meet and discuss everything, we want to be known that Russian Federation respects the global community.

Everything I posted is a counter-argument. We already started throwing insults at each other. What I haven't had from you is anything other than "You are wrong it will work." Whereas mine is "You are wrong it will work, here is why."

Eh, are you mentally challenged? I have given plenty of reasons why, each one nulifying any sort of opposition from what you said. You're in a state of denial as i predicted, you can't put forward an argument so you just ignore mine.

Eh, are you mentally challenged? I have given plenty of reasons why, each one nulifying any sort of opposition from what you said.

Wow. Okay.

Let me quote myself here:

Oh...ah...can you please tell me what part of it is wrong? Your argument is that fresh water will mix with salted water and that will up the freezing point. Well as long as i can pump that mixture out to there it will not affect the edges of the area i am clearing the freezing point will not go above 0, a balance can be found.

In america ice melts below 0 degrees?

Now to that you say that the addition of fresh water will cause the freezing point to rise which will make me want to up the temp and that will melt more ice. Now to that i said that i will remove the mixtured water from the area, not all of it but enough of it to find a balance. The project will go on for several years i can pump water as fast as it gets into the system. The salitny is kept at a level needed for a below 0 C freezing point and everybody is happy. To that you say that your statement about fresh water somehow contradicts my argument. To that i say you are not making any sense.

What Pushka says may be possible, in theory, but in practice it would be impossible. Kinda like communism.

All of it is theory, this whole game is theory, plus on here communism actually works.

Let me quote myself here:



Now to that you say that the addition of fresh water will cause the freezing point to rise which will make me want to up the temp and that will melt more ice. Now to that i said that i will remove the mixtured water from the area, not all of it but enough of it to find a balance. The project will go on for several years i can pump water as fast as it gets into the system. To that you say that your statement about fresh water somehow contradicts my argument. To that i say you are not making any sense.

The amount of water you would have to pump out is insidiously huge. Secondly the water mixes immediately, it isn't like the fresh water stays on one side and the salt water stays on the other, like a bad HS dance. It mixes and if you pump out the water, the ratio remains. Now. If seawater has a freezing point of -1.8°C then yes if you use water -1°C it is above the freezing point and will melt it. Now first you said you were going to pump the water to your coast. Then to inland chanels. The massivity of this pumps are gigantic and honestly I only think you came up with that idea from all these postings because you never said that to me before hand so it is good to see you are improvising. But I still want to know how you are going to contain water that is warm enough to be liquid and not solid and yet keep it from melting the solid that it touches. Yes you will use hoses of warm air or water to unfreeze the water that freezes, which will happen pretty fast up there, especially when those winds kick up. You'll have to do a lot of warming operations, which will gradually eat away more and more of the ice around it. Now I never said this would take hours, on the contrary I've said gradual.

All of it is theory, this whole game is theory, plus on here communism actually works.

Not really. All the communist states have putrid economies and no money whatsoever. They do have great freedoms and liberties but their collapsing into themselves. That and it's one person deciding about their country and not dealing with 100M angry people. Hell full totalitarianism here works too.

Elephantum - Thanks, that's so nice of you. Might send the world into an economic recession as well...

j/k. Actually, I'm sure several Varsolan corporations could change your mind about hypothetically invading me...and the fact that I'm allied to both Romeboy and Lightningface.

RomeW - Forgive the nickname. Just a bit of fun. *runs off, screaming for help*

TLS - Mister, remove those tanks instantly! Or else I will use my defenses. *looks at TLS' face* Sorry! I'll never call you that again, that vile nickname!

Layatreb - Thanks for adding the thread.

The amount of water you would have to pump out is insidiously huge. Secondly the water mixes immediately, it isn't like the fresh water stays on one side and the salt water stays on the other, like a bad HS dance. It mixes and if you pump out the water, the ratio remains. Now. If seawater has a freezing point of -1.8°C then yes if you use water -1°C it is above the freezing point and will melt it.

First bit of nonsense. Melt what? The ice? The ice is fresh water with the melting point of 0 C, -1 C tempt will not melt it.


Now first you said you were going to pump the water to your coast. Then to inland chanels. The massivity of this pumps are gigantic and honestly I only think you came up with that idea from all these postings because you never said that to me before hand so it is good to see you are improvising. But I still want to know how you are going to contain water that is warm enough to be liquid and not solid and yet keep it from melting the solid that it touches.

Because the melting point of the arctic ice is the same as its freezing point, 0 degrees, while the freezing point of the arctic sea water is -1.8 degrees. As long as that water is not above or equal to 0 degrees in its temperature, it will not melt the ice.


Yes you will use hoses of warm air or water to unfreeze the water that freezes, which will happen pretty fast up there, especially when those winds kick up. You'll have to do a lot of warming operations, which will gradually eat away more and more of the ice around it. Now I never said this would take hours, on the contrary I've said gradual.

Actually, sea water will take a while to freeze, unlike fresh water it is most dense around its freezing point, in addition it always moves, it will take a lot of time for it to freeze. Yes i will be doing warming operations but only to keep the sea water in between its freezing point and the melting point of ice.

its like this:

freezing point of sea water (-1.8 C) < the temperature i want to keep the water at < melting point of ice (0 C)

Not really. All the communist states have putrid economies and no money whatsoever. They do have great freedoms and liberties but their collapsing into themselves. That and it's one person deciding about their country and not dealing with 100M angry people. Hell full totalitarianism here works too.

Yeap it does and thats my point.

I figured it out. The whole mixing of water isn't getting to you. No matter if you pump it out or not you cannot stop it from mixing. That is the whole thing. Pushka I found it. You don't understand that. Do this please. Take two pitchers whatever they may be, litre or whatever. Fill one with water about a third of the way. Make that salty water, like add in err we use tablespoons here, I don't know what you use in Russia. Add in a few spoons of salt to it. Mix it in and around. Then take another one and fill it like 1/2 way of fresh water. Now you have two things there, one fresh and one salted, this is extreme because even ice has some salt in it. Taste the salty water first. Crappy huh? Okay now you have to find a way to pump out the water as you pour it in. Pour in the fresh water as you siphon out the water from the salty pitcher, as you are pouring it. Now siphon out a good 1/2 of it. Water taste less salty?

I figured it out. The whole mixing of water isn't getting to you. No matter if you pump it out or not you cannot stop it from mixing. That is the whole thing. Pushka I found it. You don't understand that. Do this please. Take two pitchers whatever they may be, litre or whatever. Fill one with water about a third of the way. Make that salty water, like add in err we use tablespoons here, I don't know what you use in Russia. Add in a few spoons of salt to it. Mix it in and around. Then take another one and fill it like 1/2 way of fresh water. Now you have two things there, one fresh and one salted, this is extreme because even ice has some salt in it. Taste the salty water first. Crappy huh? Okay now you have to find a way to pump out the water as you pour it in. Pour in the fresh water as you siphon out the water from the salty pitcher, as you are pouring it. Now siphon out a good 1/2 of it. Water taste less salty?

It's a shitty experiment but it'll serve a little bit to show that you can't get the fresh water out of the salty water.

Thank you, you pinpointed to me the portion of my explanation you for some reason don't get. It doesn't matter if they mix, i will simply pump that mixture out and pour more salt in.

Take two glasses of water, put salt in both. Taste both of them. Now add more fresh water to the second glass, taste it, its less salty. Now empty the second glass into the sink and pour the contents of the first glass into the second glass. Is it salty again?

I do not need a perfectly salutated water, as long as it has enough salt in it to not have a freezing point of zero i will be fine.

Pushka, remember this: For every action, there is a reaction. If you attempt to melt one portion of ice, the ice around it will heat up, thus melting more ice and raising water levels. And since this would be a gradual process (taking years and years), a LOT of ice would be melted. Changing the salinity levels of the water will only have a minimal effect on the overall outcome, which is drastic melting of polar icecaps, thus causing flooding all over the place.

According to this portion of science called "thermodynamics", you can't change the temperature of a piece of a system without affecting the entirety of it. To say you can do it defies that law. This will NOT work without destroying the icecaps, damaging ecosystems, and flooding various countries.

Another scenario would be that you would raise the temperature of one tiny area, and then it would just freeze over again.

This project is beyond ridiculous, not feasible in the least, and impossible. This is concept is one for the ignore cannon if I've ever seen.

Thank you, you pinpointed to me the portion of my explanation you for some reason don't get. It doesn't matter if they mix, i will simply pump that mixture out and pour more salt in.

Take two glasses of water, put salt in both. Taste both of them. Now add more fresh water to the second glass, taste it, its less salty. Now empty the second glass into the sink and pour the contents of the first glass into the second glass. Is it salty again?

I do not need a perfectly salutated water, as long as it has enough salt in it to not have a freezing point of zero i will be fine.

You keep adding on more. I asked you earlier if you were adding salt and you said no. Now you are, okay good. Improvisation. OOC: No salt in the apartment, though I would try that thing I said. Anyhow, this is definitely different than what we were originally going with. Okay much better. Still flawed but better. The plan I was arguing is definitely different than this newer one. So now more salt. Okay, lowers the freezing point from the ice around it. It'll be hell on your ships because you'll have to keep it very salty, more so to keep the freezing point under -1.8°C. This plan is def. not the original one I was arguing.

Now feasibility becomes more possible. You'd have to add a buttload of salt and hopefully not offset the ecological system, which is a given no matter what you do so that's pretty moot. Basically you'd be reversing the imbalance you created. Now that is possible albeit certainly not easy. I wouldn't call it foolproof (still the mechanical, human, and terrorist error/elements) to contend with, which puts a LOT at stake.

Now I'll have to see about this. I'll get back to you but this is better, far better, than the original plan. We'll call this version 60,000.0.

Push, if you need a port that doesn't require icebreakers, why don't you just buy some land from someone or invade a place with a warm water port?

Just a reminder my civil war is about to start soon: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=456129

My next post will trigger it.

Push, if you need a port that doesn't require icebreakers, why don't you just buy some land from someone or invade a place with a warm water port?

Invade the Wick. LOL. He's a tough SOB. That's a good fight.

You keep adding on more. I asked you earlier if you were adding salt and you said no. Now you are, okay good. Improvisation.

Not really, i guess i misuderstood you, i was saying that i will pump the mixture out and pump more salty water in from the beggining, i can quote myself if you're too lazy to look on the last page and the page before that.

OOC: No salt in the apartment, though I would try that thing I said. Anyhow, this is definitely different than what we were originally going with. Okay much better. Still flawed but better. The plan I was arguing is definitely different than this newer one. So now more salt. Okay, lowers the freezing point from the ice around it. It'll be hell on your ships because you'll have to keep it very salty, more so to keep the freezing point under -1.8°C. This plan is def. not the original one I was arguing.

Very salty? Not really -1.8 C is an average for all the seas with normal salt levels.

Not really, i guess i misuderstood you, i was saying that i will pump the mixture out and pump more salty water in from the beggining, i can quote myself if you're too lazy to look on the last page and the page before that.



Very salty? Not really -1.8 C is an average for all the seas with normal salt levels.

Yeah I saw the post, it's back there. Sure that's average and you want more salt than average to allow the freezing point to be less than -1.8°C. You probably want more like -2° to -3° for your water temperatures. You'll need a lot of salt to get that big of a body of water, even if it's only 5 km² to that level.

This is what i said from page 560, i think i was saying that before that as well:

-1.7 degrees Celcius will not melt the ice, last time i checked the melting and freezing point for fresh water was 0 degrees celcius.

Now you are completely twisting what i said. I raise temperature to above 0 C, ice melts, i clear the area i wanted to clear (the heat distribution will not be equal temperatures at the edge will be very close to 0), now i don't want any more ice to melt. Now i pump the fresh water mixed with salted water into the specially created inland channels and pump salty water in from unaffected areas. I don't need that water to be perfectly salted, it can be mixed with fresh water as long as its freezing point is below 0 degrees celcius. Now i have a balance. The ice won't melt because water around it doesn't freeze at the temperatures below zero at which i keep it, and the water won't freeze because its salt content allows it to keep a freezing point below 0 degrees. Do you understand now?

Yeah I saw the post, it's back there. Sure that's average and you want more salt than average to allow the freezing point to be less than -1.8°C. You probably want more like -2° to -3° for your water temperatures. You'll need a lot of salt to get that big of a body of water, even if it's only 5 km² to that level.

Why would i want -2 or -3? I was thinking more like -1 or even higher then that. I am not pouring any artificial salt in, i am simply moving salted water from an area unaffected by the mixing of fresh water and salty water into the area that was affected, meanwhile also pumping the fresh/salty mixture out of that area.

This is what i said from page 560, i think i was saying that before that as well:

Yes, post 8397. I've read them all. I've been reading them all as I've been posting. Problem is that we've been posting a minute after each other. Lots of stuff there. But alas, yes I did see. I was still arguing the pre-modified plan, which it quite appeared you were still trying to counter.

Why would i want -2 or -3? I was thinking more like -1 or even higher then that. I am not pouring any artificial salt in, i am simply moving salted water from an area unaffected by the mixing of fresh water and salty water into the area that was affected, meanwhile also pumping the fresh/salty mixture out of that area.

Okay so the average temperature of the ice is -1.8°C. You want the water you are putting in there to be much saltier so it requires like a much colder temperature. This way you can keep the water temperature in there lower than that of the average yet higher than its melting point, which wouldn't require any further thawing operations.

Aight, no problem then. Then i started this whole thing it was late and i wasn't very sober, i didn't really have much time to work the kinks out.

Aight, no problem then. Then i started this whole thing it was late and i wasn't very sober, i didn't really have much time to work the kinks out.

Probably should have mentioned that.

Okay so the average temperature of the ice is -1.8°C. You want the water you are putting in there to be much saltier so it requires like a much colder temperature. This way you can keep the water temperature in there lower than that of the average yet higher than its melting point, which wouldn't require any further thawing operations.

Hmm, i guess so. Or i can just make it so my panels only emit enough heat to warm the water up to -1.8 degrees. Either is good, one requires me to modify my ships to have better protection from salt, and the other gives me a nice and big electricity bill.

Hmm, i guess so. Or i can just make it so my panels only emit enough heat to warm the water up to -1.8 degrees. Either is good, one requires me to modify my ships to have better protection from salt, and the other gives me a nice and big electricity bill.

Yeah I would take the ship modification. The idea of having the salt levels is easier to maintain than a constant heating. And yes it is cheaper in the long-run. That and the heating risks melting the rest of the ice.

Probably should have mentioned that.

You know where i am, you could have guessed.

Yeah I would take the ship modification. The idea of having the salt levels is easier to maintain than a constant heating. And yes it is cheaper in the long-run. That and the heating risks melting the rest of the ice.

Alrighty then, good that we settled this thing. I will take several RL months before its complete.

You know where i am, you could have guessed.

For once I was giving the benefit of the doubt. Next time I'll just go into the stereotype that all Russians are drunk all the time without thinking. But don't say I didn't warn you. No bitching.

Are Varsola or The Andromedan in any alliances?? . . .
I need land. Straight up.

Aren't you in VCO? Aren't we discussing what land to give you? Do you know the password to our forums? I can TG it to you if you don't.

I hear a little bit about joining it but beyond that i am completely ignorant. But it sounds like a pretty sweet deal. what was tha password?

I think Elephantum proposed you we all voted Yay, that means you're in. Check TGs for link and password in a couple of minutes.

Pushka and Lay?-We done the shouting match?

Varsola So am I

yeah i think we came to a satisfactory conclusion

Aren't you in VCO? Aren't we discussing what land to give you? Do you know the password to our forums? I can TG it to you if you don't

Told ya folks, the VCO is the new world order, they cut the world into a pie and give pieces to their friend, but sigh no one has the balls to join in an anti imperalist alliance

BTW, who are the members of the VCO just wondering

Told ya folks, the VCO is the new world order, they cut the world into a pie and give pieces to their friend, but sigh no one has the balls to join in an anti imperalist alliance

Indeed, no-one has the strength to ally themselves with weak nations.

aaaaah but you seem to forget that your alliance soldiers are fighting for money while or soldiers and the workers of the world are fighting for freedom from slavery among other things, were only 3rd world because someone told you were 3rd world...Pantheaa is really a Utopia

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

Pushka only created the VCO to get a good feeling. I mean, who can be here for that long and do nothing to be remembered for? If I was Pushka, I would do the same thing. Just gather up all the 10 million strong nations to help you fight the good war later bro so you can conquer the world. Now that is a hunk-a-chunk with big brains.

Yeah it is a plan, but i think it would be cool if their was a rival alliance. Kind of like NATO vs Warsaw Pact or Axis vs Allies. But of course that is unlikely to happen becuz when you have realtions with the most RP nations that leaves you with nations who only check in once a decade.

TOA and VCO are rival alliances for the most part.

Told ya folks, the VCO is the new world order, they cut the world into a pie and give pieces to their friend, but sigh no one has the balls to join in an anti imperalist alliance

BTW, who are the members of the VCO just wondering

Heh, you say that no-one has the balls to join in an anti-imperialist alliance.....

When the United Eastasian Republic was formed after the overthrow of the Zhonghuan Empire, they instantly set about opposing imperialists; their support for Free Palau and the Kreynorian Republican Organisation serve as pretty good examples.

Where were you? Ah yes, 'Israel will soon be in Pantheaan hands'. You were so busy talking about taking Israel that you missed the rise of a huge anti-imperialist power in Asia. A power that would have quite happily helped you liberate Israel. That's the breaks I guess.

Yeap, the TOA is the rival alliance to the VCO. I suppose its a bit like the Cold War in E2, only things are a little more spread out than just East and West.

Yeap, the TOA is the rival alliance to the VCO. I suppose its a bit like the Cold War in E2, only things are a little more spread out than just East and West.

If they're gonna go head-on with the October Alliance, they need to prepare, though. That's one of the factors that brought the destruction of the RC, either the nations were too afraid to fight off the worlds most powerful alliance, they were in the opposing alliance, OR they choose to fight it. In that last category was maybe 20% of the alliance.

Thank goodness we didn't really go to war, because the October Alliance would have burned Rome and Carthage to the ground :D

Told ya folks, the VCO is the new world order, they cut the world into a pie and give pieces to their friend, but sigh no one has the balls to join in an anti imperalist alliance

BTW, who are the members of the VCO just wondering

Members:

Russian Federation (Pushka)
United Eastasian Republic (Marimia)
Bjornoya
Neuvo Rica
Van Luxembourg (he quit EII didn't he?)
Elephantum
Reagonica

If i forgot anybody please tell me.

If they're gonna go head-on with the October Alliance, they need to prepare, though. That's one of the factors that brought the destruction of the RC, either the nations were too afraid to fight off the worlds most powerful alliance, they were in the opposing alliance, OR they choose to fight it. In that last category was maybe 20% of the alliance.

Thank goodness we didn't really go to war, because the October Alliance would have burned Rome and Carthage to the ground :D

Don't worry, we got a more carefully screening process, all of our members are likely minded about TOA. (Well Adhervia wasn't but thats why we expelled him)

If they're gonna go head-on with the October Alliance, they need to prepare, though. That's one of the factors that brought the destruction of the RC, either the nations were too afraid to fight off the worlds most powerful alliance, they were in the opposing alliance, OR they choose to fight it. In that last category was maybe 20% of the alliance.

Thank goodness we didn't really go to war, because the October Alliance would have burned Rome and Carthage to the ground :D

Well cross alliances was one issue that made the Roman Confederacy ineffective. Lack of participation by members was the biggest issue I saw. Heck if it weren't for Norway, RomeW, You, and Me the message boards would have been silent.

Pantheaa, are you being directly threatened by the VCO? That is a pretty serious charge you have levied against them. In the comment you offered about not having a set, 'twas I and a few others that helped "convince" The Macabee's New Caledonia wasn't a great place to live a few months ago. He finally agreed to vacate the premises. A massive OOC fest insued, some wanking took place, but at the end of the day I think all could see the handwriting on the wall, so he just bailed out of E II.

Folks don't need to throw alliances around as weight. I don't belong to either group, I was a member of the RC but if I had a problem with a member nation, I would and did resign before attacking a fellow member. As I said I am not tied to any organization now and personally don't like folks alliance wanking to keep people from having small regional conflicts over islands, etc.

Now with that said, I will say that the friendly status that I have built with many nations within E II offers my nation alot of latitude when it comes to mutual assistance. I have helped out my neighbors on numerous occassions and they call on me when it looks as if I need help. That isn't an alliance that is just people returning the help I gave them. In short, don't flaunt alliances for I have a trump card that makes all alliances a mute point.

-Hawdawg

Ok, seeing how the world is pretty much torn right now, and everyone seems to looking for my support, I have an idea. I'm not sure if I'd like to become a full-fledged member of either alliance (although getting into the October Alliance would be pretty impossible, since TLS wasn't made in Oct 03), so I'd like each side to give me reasons why I should consider a priveleged partnership. Keep in mind certain issues are more important to me than others...

The TOA isn't actually against invasions. Both Alliances like the 'status-quo'. Anything outside that is usually up for grabs. Thats what the world is all about. If you invaded, say Mali or Rwanda, then I wouldn't say a word. Heck, I probably help you out. Sure there are VCO and TOA members working side by side in Africa at the moment, and thats progress, and all of us involved are protecting the status quo against idiots like Hiraan. I don't think thats too shaby too be honest.

TLS, you'd have to provide a lot of instances were you have helped the TOA in the past before we could begin to consider you. No hard feelings, just the way it is.

I love all this scheming alliance stuff. Well, TLS, considering we have been neighbors ever since I had a land border, you helped me in the first war I ever had to fight (Operation Bahraini Freedom), we are the 2 muslim powers in E2, we are both MESC members, we backed you up in Poland, even when certain allies (cough...Cotland...cough) didn't, and the fact that we both have the biggest space programs in E2, I would suggest you check your TGs.

Well there are two major and three minor blocks right now. The VCO and TOA are the major blocks and there are those nations not part of either one and who are sympathetic to those blocks and the last is just a neutral block.

come to think of it, just about everybody should check tgs, if i havent sent you one now, i will soon

Pop-Pop died day after Christmas, will be gone to his memorial service in San Diego so expect my continued absence for a while yet. Anyone who is in the middle of transactions involving my nation don't expect a response 'til January.

Pop-Pop died day after Christmas, will be gone to his memorial service in San Diego so expect my continued absence for a while yet. Anyone who is in the middle of transactions involving my nation don't expect a response 'til January.

My condolences man. Take as much time as you need you know nobody here is going to complain and if they do they are getting beaten with a stick.

Bjorn-Im sorry. Ill help keep the land vultures (of which I sometimes belong) off your stuff.

Has anyone else noticed the "latest threads" section of the main NS site has our # of posts wrong? Jolt says 8,471 (or something like that), while nationstates.net says 8,559.

Bjorn-Im sorry. Ill help keep the land vultures (of which I sometimes belong) off your stuff.

Has anyone else noticed the "latest threads" section of the main NS site has our # of posts wrong? Jolt says 8,471 (or something like that), while nationstates.net says 8,559.

Yeah that is how many there have been with deleted posts.

The TOA isn't actually against invasions. Both Alliances like the 'status-quo'. Anything outside that is usually up for grabs. Thats what the world is all about. If you invaded, say Mali or Rwanda, then I wouldn't say a word. Heck, I probably help you out. Sure there are VCO and TOA members working side by side in Africa at the moment, and thats progress, and all of us involved are protecting the status quo against idiots like Hiraan. I don't think thats too shaby too be honest.

TLS, you'd have to provide a lot of instances were you have helped the TOA in the past before we could begin to consider you. No hard feelings, just the way it is.

I know, I'd never get in the October Alliance. I'm just thinking of, y'know, priveleges. I mean, if a nation like Cotland could get in a full member...

OK, I'm back in business! Merry Christmas btw. Layarteb, you may remove me from D13 status now if you wish. Thanks.

Bjorn, my deepest condolences. Death sucks.

I know, I'd never get in the October Alliance. I'm just thinking of, y'know, priveleges. I mean, if a nation like Cotland could get in a full member...

Well Cotland go in, despite him not being October 2003, because he showed loyalty towards me and NG that was far more than anyone could imagine and he has shown to be a very solid member of our alliance.

Well Cotland go in, despite him not being October 2003, because he showed loyalty towards me and NG that was far more than anyone could imagine and he has shown to be a very solid member of our alliance.

I see.

Well, I guess he backstabbed his friends to get new ones :)

Anyhoo, if you guys don't want me to be a priveleged partner, then I guess I'll have to wait to see what the VCO offers. I mean, I need some sort of alliance, eh?

I see.

Well, I guess he backstabbed his friends to get new ones :)

Anyhoo, if you guys don't want me to be a priveleged partner, then I guess I'll have to wait to see what the VCO offers. I mean, I need some sort of alliance, eh?

I wouldn't say he did any of that.

I wouldn't say he did any of that.

Ummmm....

He left the RC right before we had that big showdown with NG. He was a key-part of our battle plan. When he left, it collapsed on us. We got him up and running. It's like if someone stole their parents really, really expensive car right before they went on a roadtrip, ran over the family pets, and sold the car to the Joneses down the road. And then married the Joneses son or daughter.

Ummmm....

He left the RC right before we had that big showdown with NG. He was a key-part of our battle plan. When he left, it collapsed on us. We got him up and running. It's like if someone stole their parents really, really expensive car right before they went on a roadtrip, ran over the family pets, and sold the car to the Joneses down the road. And then married the Joneses son or daughter.

I would call that smart thinking. Who the hell wants a showdown with NG?

I see.

Well, I guess he backstabbed his friends to get new ones :)

Anyhoo, if you guys don't want me to be a priveleged partner, then I guess I'll have to wait to see what the VCO offers. I mean, I need some sort of alliance, eh?

If you want to get in we'll have a vote and maybe you'll become a member, but since Bjorn is gone you gonna have to wait a while until he comes back.

Anyways we protect you if you are attacked, we help you then you need our political backing and we are about discuss this but i think we might have a free trade pact of some sort, or lowered tarrifs. Anyways, we still got a lot to discuss.

I would call that smart thinking. Who the hell wants a showdown with NG?


I wouldn't mind it, if it was one on one kind of deal.

I would call that smart thinking. Who the hell wants a showdown with NG?

People who were concerned that the war-mongering, mass-executing, oppressive Germans were taking over Europe.

I wouldn't mind it, if it was one on one kind of deal.

I would love to see that too. I'd give him less than a week to annihilate you.

Legend

Red: General announcements (21-day, decree 12, etc.)
Blue: Response to your posts (claims, threads, etc.)
Green: Service announcements (to all, RPs, etc.)









Pushka [Post 8350]: Thread added. I wouldn't rag on SB for not showing up. He's Degree 13 at the moment on the count of losing his leg in a car accident so cut him some slack, why don't you? I'll tell NG to go post.






Do you guys think we should have an up-to-date listing of the alliances and its members? Basically we just have VCO and TOA at the moment. All the others listed are pretty inactive. We could use the 5th post for that I guess.

I would love to see that too. I'd give him less than a week to annihilate you.

Thats funny Lay, you're funny. Repelling him won't be a problem, you never seen me in my uber tactician mode, i own all, if i am interested enough.

Pushka: Thread added. I wouldn't rag on SB for not showing up. He's Degree 13 at the moment on the count of losing his leg in a car accident so cut him some slack, why don't you? I'll tell NG to go post.

Oh, i thought he came back, i talked to him on MSN and he said he is back, well okay then. No hurry.

Oh, i thought he came back, i talked to him on MSN and he said he is back, well okay then. No hurry.

As far as the listing is concerned he is D13.

Tats funny Lay, you're funny. Repelling him won't be a problem, you never seen me in my uber tactician mode, i own all, if i am interested enough.

Beware of hubris.

Soviet Bloc is active, he and I have been RPing and here is the link.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=460680

-Hawdawg

Okay. SB. You want to stay D13 or not?

After discussions in Stockholm, the Kingdom of Norway and the Holy Republic of Hawdawg has reached an agreement. The borders between Norway and Hawdawg shall be opened completely, allowing the citizens of both countries free access to each others country. As a result, border defenses on the Hawdawgian border shall be dismantled to a munimum. Customs shall also be reduced, but still remain strong enough to ensure that no smuggling occur. The Holy Republic should confirm this as soon as possible.

After discussions in Stockholm, the Kingdom of Norway and the Holy Republic of Hawdawg has reached an agreement. The borders between Norway and Hawdawg shall be opened completely, allowing the citizens of both countries free access to each others country. As a result, border defenses on the Hawdawgian border shall be dismantled to a munimum. Customs shall also be reduced, but still remain strong enough to ensure that no smuggling occur. The Holy Republic should confirm this as soon as possible.

The Empire is most pleased by this strengthening of relations between your two nations and we hope that it will lead to better ties between Hawdawg and the Empire.

**Official Statement**

The Holy Republic of Hawdawg wishes to confirm the "Open Border Status" with the Kingdom of Norway. We will allow unrestricted travel to and from Norway and have reduced tariffs to a minimum. In addition, we will collect all tariffs on goods traveling into Norway from our Country and send them a yearly payment to further streamline the trade between our countries.

Signed,

Josey Wales
Prime Minister
Holy Republic of Hawdawg

Thats funny Lay, you're funny. Repelling him won't be a problem, you never seen me in my uber tactician mode, i own all, if i am interested enough.


Now that is the funniest thing I have heard all day. I know of one nation that was able to delay a NG advance, The Wick, and it was decided among the attackers, myself included, that the losses would have been too great to continue. Its not the fact that it couldn't be done, it was the ratio of dead we looked at. Uber-tactics wouldn't save you, highly exceptional RPing might.
BTW, I own all, is a little over the top wouldn't you agree?

-Hawdawg

Now that is the funniest thing I have heard all day. I know of one nation that was able to delay a NG advance, The Wick, and it was decided among the attackers, myself included, that the losses would have been too great to continue. Its not the fact that it couldn't be done, it was the ratio of dead we looked at. Uber-tactics wouldn't save you, highly exceptional RPing might.
BTW, I own all, is a little over the top wouldn't you agree?

-Hawdawg

You know this is what I love about TOA. We all have our flaws & our advantages. Combined we're pretty badass and even separately we are able to hold our own. We're like transformers. Individually kick ass but together, we are seriously kick ass.

To: Carthage

I advise Carthage to join no alliance at all and instead stay an independent nation. A couple of reasons why you should refuse both entry to the TOA and VCO

1) Your country loses all of its neutrality. Pantheaa and other nations retain a neutral stance in world affairs. While alliances push you to one side of a conflict, often it might be the side you don’t want to be in. Alliances see everything in black and white...they are the enemy we are the good guys. Neutral non alliance nations instead see the grey...Pantheaa is slowly becoming the Vatican of E2

2) Alliances are a failure. TOA and VCO are just “league of nations” and “Roman Confederacy” repeated

3) Plunge into political problems. Once you join an alliance you become the worlds nanny. You have nations within the said alliance striving to complete for your nation...begging you do side with them when no one else will. How many RC’ERS REMEMBER DUKE BAROL WHO DECIDES TO GO ON A BLITZKRIEG AND DRAG THE ENTIRE ALLIANCE WITH HIM!!

4) Alliances are un-democratic. Every nation that joins an alliance is undemocratic. By forcing an international body to decide a conflict instead of the elected people...is undemocratic. To allow a foreign nation to tell you how to handle international affairs...takes that issue out of public opinion. You lose all sovereignty when in an alliance. Once again the Panthean Confederacy is the most democratic nation in the world

5) No protection to the minority voter. No filibusters in these alliances!!! Vote against the majority vote in a alliance, and you will be forced to go with what the others say. I bet you can’t even write a dissenting opinion in these alliances to try to get people on your side...in other words your voice as been silent and your vote doesn’t matter

6) Nations are just using you. Your just a tool for a greater scheme, most likely a scheme to make or two nations more larger. I have a mountain of evidence of this so this charge can’t be disputed. Examples include North Germania playing the entire RC to conquer all of Europe. I believe Hiiraan's post was trying to say that the VCO is just a tool for Russian Fed to expand. Thus alliances are imperialistic..for Carthage to join an alliance would be a stab in the heart to the brave Poles who revolting against North Germania

7) There might not be a need for an alliance.....NATO and Warsaw Pact were formed during the cold war when USSR and USA ready to duke it out in any second. However E2 lacks that kind duel power rule. The biggest most powerful nations all have good feelings about other big and powerful nations. TOA and VCO are rivals but what’s the difference...Ideological? Economic?....there is hardly any differences...so they have no point in having to distinct alliances, what then do us political scienetist theroize what an alliance is used for.....LOOK AT #6

8)”I’ll inherit the Beef Of 50"- in the words of Eminem, it goes back to the when one nation chooses to attack another nation. If you agree with the alliances action to attack that nation, then you’re an enemy of that nation, embragos and boycotts follow suit. Some nations will place embargos on you just for being in the same league with that nation. Once again DUKE BAROL comes to mind when thinking of an example, Much like Eminem “You’ll inherit 50's beef”

Vassili Zeitsev
President for life
Panthean Confederacy

You know this is what I love about TOA. We all have our flaws & our advantages. Combined we're pretty badass and even separately we are able to hold our own. We're like transformers. Individually kick ass but together, we are seriously kick ass.

You know how I know you're gay?
You like transformers

You know how I know you're gay?
You like transformers

Leave the '80s out of this bro. Remember. Reagan. '80s pwn!

You know how I know you're gay?
You like transformers

HOW DARE YOU DIS THE TRANSFORMERS!?!?!?!

Leave the '80s out of this bro. Remember. Reagan. '80s pwn!

Haha. Good point. Interesting topic:
Which Transformer would make the best president, or
Which Transformer does Ronald Reagan most resemble?
I would have to say Optimus Prime on both accounts