NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just wondering, why do the world cup champs not automatically qualify for the world cup?

Because they'd get screwed over in the KPBs by not having Qualifiers to go through, while every other (assuming top-ten) team would have anything up to thirty points at the Group Stage each.

Plus it's not inconceivable that the Champs might not sign up to defend their title, thus leaving a spot at random.

And, thirdly, how boring would Qualifiers be for a) everyone else and b) the Champs themselves without including them in the Qualifiers and having to wait for them until the Finals proper?

On top of all that, it feels like it's a lot easier to get 30 qualifiers than 29. :p

Speaking of sign-ups, though, when is WC38's one starting?

Speaking of sign-ups, though, when is WC38's one starting?

In a few minutes... link will be posted here momentarily

World Cup 38 Signups (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=538995) are open

*Wanders away mumbling about stolen threads*

/me channels Glenn Close.

World Cup 38 Signups (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=538995) are open

I would like (and I'm sure Spaam and any others would, as well) the prospective BoF hosts to note whether they'd include zeroised KPB nations in their BoFs, please, as it would be helpful to n00bs like us.

Well, considering you've won the cup before, I'd figure you'd be ineligible. =p

Well, considering you've won the cup before, I'd figure you'd be ineligible. =p
So? We are effectively new teams, and have never participated in the BoF before.

1. What have I missed? Spaam's never won the cup.

2. Because they'd get screwed over in the KPBs by not having Qualifiers to go through <--- that's why we should've raised the host bonus two. Only goofy lets people like Adihan and Novapsolu host. :p

3. Greatest Collapses people. Geez, what am I paying you for? ;)

3. Greatest Collapses people. Geez, what am I paying you for? ;)

I'd wager that people would only remember their own collapses, if any. I know of no Starblaydi qualifying collapses, though I'll re-check that after WC38 qualifiers finish ;)

Of course, you have participated in the World Cup before, raising the question of why you should be in the Tournament for nations that haven't other than a points-grab. :p

World Cup 38 Signups (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=538995) are open

*Wanders away mumbling about stolen threads*

I'd like to note that the FFSA is submitting a bid to host the 25th Baptism of Fire. It will follow basically the same format as 24th, but I will be using a newer NSFS or Qutar's scorinator.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/juvanya/hc02logo_bid.png

Of course, you have participated in the World Cup before, raising the question of why you should be in the Tournament for nations that haven't other than a points-grab. :p

If it was about points (and therefore a better chance of winning matches), I'my sure I would have had a far better rank had I signed up for WC37 with the remnants of WC34's participation still factored in.

I'm sure you would, but you didn't. Either way, I'm just being contrary for the sake of it as opposed to any real reason.

Opposition via the principle of 'just because'. Gotcha.

I am not in favour of making Sel Appa the permanent BoF host.

Possibly twice equals permanent? Wow, if I'd have known that I wouldn't have gone on as many second-dates at Uni.

Twice in a row suggests that is what he's looking at.

I am not in favour of making Sel Appa the permanent BoF host.

Possibly twice equals permanent? Wow, if I'd have known that I wouldn't have gone on as many second-dates at Uni.

I see no need to make me permanent host. I just would like to host it again. My first one had a few scorination complications, that didn't affect anything really except tables and time. I didn't know NSFS 124 as well as I should've. So, I'd like to do it again with a better scorinator. And with so many people saying I did a good job, why not let me have an encore? :)

(As Miceland)

We see nothing wrong with Star/Spaam participating in the BoF, however of course they will receive a lower priority than normal non-puppet teams... however I'm still in the process of deciding whether new puppets or zero-ised non-puppets should have a higher priority. (EDIT: Of course zero-ised puppets will have the lowest priority of all)

(As Miceland)

We see nothing wrong with Star/Spaam participating in the BoF, however of course they will receive a lower priority than normal non-puppet teams... however I'm still in the process of deciding whether new puppets or zero-ised non-puppets should have a higher priority.

An intriguing enigma.

As an aside to my RP, what would you guys says is the worst qualification collapse in WC history?

Mine during the WC 29 Qualifers.

Had a 6 point lead with 3 matches to go and only had one tough team left and missed by a point, no thanks to a 3-0 loss to BOSTOPIA of all teams.

Mine during the WC 29 Qualifers.

Had a 6 point lead with 3 matches to go and only had one tough team left and missed by a point, no thanks to a 3-0 loss to BOSTOPIA of all teams.

I think it might be me!

Lead by six points in one world cup (before WC17, might have been WC14) ahead of D2R.
The issue was I was playing the top 2 teams last two games and lost both, and D2R won both games. Didn't qualify that cup.

I'm new around here, but WTH is up with the scores?

I lose and draw against a team that didn't bother RPing at all these qualifers and even less in the BoF, (Which i won bTW). So whazzzupwhitdat?

I'm new around here, but WTH is up with the scores?

I lose and draw against a team that didn't bother RPing at all these qualifers and even less in the BoF, (Which i won bTW). So whazzzupwhitdat?

WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD NooB, I had to go throught the same S#!t from WC's 27 to 31. But seriously, these scores aren't making any real sense, as evidensed by some of the seeds as how they positioned so far:

Top 10:

8 Vilita- 3rd place (Playing well below seeding)

NEXT 15-
11 Jeruselem 4th place (well below seeding)
15 Bazalonia tied for 2nd place (slightly below seeding)
20 The Archregimancy 4th (well below seeding)

Even Sel Appa can admit that Arch and Jeru struggling to qualify at this point is a little wierd.

Again.
For the FINAL time.

RPing does not mean you will win.

The scores are, first and foremost, RANDOM, and only second based on rank, which an RP bonus is added to.

The end.

I'm new around here, but WTH is up with the scores?

I lose and draw against a team that didn't bother RPing at all these qualifers and even less in the BoF, (Which i won bTW). So whazzzupwhitdat?

My first cup was WC11 (the one before they introduced the BoF), and I RPed most games - and lost 13 of 14! :D
Losing 0-1 most of the time!

You have the advantage of winning a BoF before this cup, something I never had.

I'm new around here, but WTH is up with the scores?

I lose and draw against a team that didn't bother RPing at all these qualifers and even less in the BoF, (Which i won bTW). So whazzzupwhitdat?

In the BoF there were...

Random-number + RP that determined results.

In the WC there are....

KPB Ranks + RP + Random number

Prux, we've had far worse upsets than that this match 1-0 loss for an RPing team just out of the BoF (even if they did win it) against a non-RPing team also right out of the BoF.

Just look at Taeshan, he's way above where any of us expected him to be. anyway, your only 2 points behind the team you lost against. In group 1 the bottom 3 teams are only sperated by 2 points

10 MDs into World Cup Quals that is hardly anything. You still have 4 MDs to catch up 2 points just calm down will ya?

I'm new around here, but WTH is up with the scores?

I lose and draw against a team that didn't bother RPing at all these qualifers and even less in the BoF, (Which i won bTW). So whazzzupwhitdat?

Them's the breaks. Like they always say, you win some, you lose some. Last cup was my first one with this nation, and I finished qualifying at 7-2-5; this time around I'll be lucky to see 3-4-7.

WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD NooB, I had to go throught the same S#!t from WC's 27 to 31. But seriously, these scores aren't making any real sense, as evidensed by some of the seeds as how they positioned so far:

Top 10:

8 Vilita- 3rd place (Playing well below seeding)

NEXT 15-
11 Jeruselem 4th place (well below seeding)
15 Bazalonia tied for 2nd place (slightly below seeding)
20 The Archregimancy 4th (well below seeding)

Even Sel Appa can admit that Arch and Jeru struggling to qualify at this point is a little wierd.
Qazox wins -> we hear nothing.
Qazox loses -> he starts bitching again.

Seriously. Shut. Up.

These things happen, I see nothing wrong. Oh, and noone has beaten my spectacular collapse of finishing LAST in my group.

Qazox wins -> we hear nothing.
Qazox loses -> he starts bitching again.

Seriously. Shut. Up.

These things happen, I see nothing wrong. Oh, and noone has beaten my spectacular collapse of finishing LAST in my group.

Just pointing out the facts.

I forgot about that one Spaam. Wouldn't wish that on any ranked team, except maybe Sel Appa or Az-cz, (lol j/k u2)

I'm not even complaining for my Self (for a freaking change), Arch and Jeruselem should at worst be in qualifing position by now.

Besides, do you really what another SEL APPA running around here bragging every time they win?

I'm sort of back, but wondering whether to rp the last few group games. I can't get a theme going and it would prolly be unfair on those who have been rping.

I can't get over how well Errinundera has been doing. In previous Cups I've looked on in envy as the top teams creamed their opponents during qualifying and, now that Errinundera is doing it, it's embarrasing.

Wentland - please RP. Yours are entertaining, as often as not. The main point of RPing is to provide entertaining reading. The point of the RP bonus, I think, is to encourage the posting of RPs. Anyway, it's easy for me to say, given that the Potoroos are doing so well.

I can't get over how well Errinundera has been doing. In previous Cups I've looked on in envy as the top teams creamed their opponents during qualifying and, now that Errinundera is doing it, it's embarrasing.

Wentland - please RP. Yours are entertaining, as often as not. The main point of RPing is to provide entertaining reading. The point of the RP bonus, I think, is to encourage the posting of RPs. Anyway, it's easy for me to say, given that the Potoroos are doing so well.

You sure did the job on my army team! 7 - 1

You sure did the job on my army team! 7 - 1

Bunch of tent scrubbers!

Bunch of tent scrubbers!

Well, as I've RPed before ... the army team are the army people who can't function in war but can't be sacked either.

I can't get over how well Errinundera has been doing. In previous Cups I've looked on in envy as the top teams creamed their opponents during qualifying and, now that Errinundera is doing it, it's embarrasing.

Erri,

You do of course realize this means you're doomed in the proper? Adding the Audioslavian curse on top of the fact that good performance in qualifiers never leads to good performance in the proper means that there's no way at all you're going to be winning a second title. Sorry. Unfortunately it means the same thing for me, but so it goes. :(

Erri,

You do of course realize this means you're doomed in the proper? Adding the Audioslavian curse on top of the fact that good performance in qualifiers never leads to good performance in the proper means that there's no way at all you're going to be winning a second title. Sorry. Unfortunately it means the same thing for me, but so it goes. :(

When did you win a first title?

Harharhar. I just meant that despite my strong qualification so far, I also have the curse, so won't win this cup either. Of course this is for Az-cz not Ulzaxid.

The main point of RPing is to provide entertaining reading.

Really? Shit, I've really been missing the point, haven't I?

Really? Shit, I've really been missing the point, haven't I?

I've found most of your RPs fun to read, fwiw...:)

Candelaria And Marquez's RPs are quite good; even if there was such a thing as the curse, it wouldn't apply to teams that have already won (see: Ariddia in the last two cups); and...well, I guess I can't really comment given my record.

Really? Shit, I've really been missing the point, haven't I?

I was being deliberately disingenuous. Sometimes people act as if they RP to improve their chances of winning. (Including myself at times.)

Mine during the WC 29 Qualifers.

Had a 6 point lead with 3 matches to go and only had one tough team left and missed by a point, no thanks to a 3-0 loss to BOSTOPIA of all teams.

Yeah, but then you thrashed me 5 - 1 in the CoH for WC32, so hey. Oh, and then I beat you 5 - 2 in CoH for WC34, which I went on to win.

This isn't much of an "at least you got the upper hand" message, is it?

Even Sel Appa can admit that Arch and Jeru struggling to qualify at this point is a little wierd.

Just pointing out the facts.

I forgot about that one Spaam. Wouldn't wish that on any ranked team, except maybe Sel Appa or Az-cz, (lol j/k u2)

I'm not even complaining for my Self (for a freaking change), Arch and Jeruselem should at worst be in qualifing position by now.

Besides, do you really what another SEL APPA running around here bragging every time they win?
*orders ICBMs to be pointed at Qazox and prepares an invasion force*

Again.
For the FINAL time.

RPing does not mean you will win.

The scores are, first and foremost, RANDOM, and only second based on rank, which an RP bonus is added to.

The end.
Maybe they are a bit more random than usual?

Maybe they are a bit more random than usual?

They are slightly more so than is usual for this scorinator, yes. (I should know, I wrote it.) I am aware of the reason behind it, and from what I can determine it was a design decision on the part of the hosts, not an error. That said, the scores aren't completely out in left field, and everyone's affected equally, so I'd have to say there's nothing to worry about here.

Yeah, but then you thrashed me 5 - 1 in the CoH for WC32, so hey. Oh, and then I beat you 5 - 2 in CoH for WC34, which I went on to win.

This isn't much of an "at least you got the upper hand" message, is it?

:p

*orders ICBMs to be pointed at Qazox and prepares an invasion force*


:p and the horse you rode in on.

Qazox, please check TGs.

Qazox, please check TGs.

Did, tnx.

That's the way someone like him would respond, and a lawyer trying to put the right spin on it.

WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD NooB, I had to go throught the same S#!t from WC's 27 to 31. But seriously, these scores aren't making any real sense, as evidensed by some of the seeds as how they positioned so far:

Yeah..since NS is the real world and all. And seriously how fun would it be if seeds 1-32 qualifyed for every cup? I didnt think so. Upsets and mayhem is what makes qualifying good to RP.

1. Legal,

I think the qualification #s for group one are wrong.

2. Qazox, Jeruselem could someone post a link to an RP explaining just what it was that Fowler did?

my nomination for biggest choke ever. Nanakaland ranked in the 50s at the time. hopefully this lines up somewhat if not will try to tweak.

WC 27- my group naturally. top three qualify. choker in bold

Pos--Team-------------------P---W--D--L--GF--GA--GD--Pts
1 Nanakaland-----------11---9--0--2--20--14---6---27
2 Total n Utter Insanity----10---8--0--2--29 --8---21---24
3 Bettia-------------------10---7--2--1--31--15--16---23
4 The Weegies ------------11---4--3--4--16--17--(-1)--15
5 The Kazoo Peoples-------10---4--1--5--19--20--(-1)--13
6 Tynelia------------------11---3--4--4--11--12--(-1)--13
7 Risa-Aramour------------11---3--3--5--11--21--(-10)--12
8 Algal states-------------11---3--0--8--13--28--(-15)--9
9 The New Chakovnia------11---0--1--10--13--28-(-15)--1

final result. MD 16
Pos---Team--------------------Pts
1 Total n Utter Insanity-------40
2 Bettia----------------------35
3 The Kazoo Peoples----------29
4 Nanakaland-----------------28
5 The Weegies---------------24
6 Tynelia---------------------20
7 Risa-Aramour---------------16
8 Algal states----------------13
9 The New Chakovnia---------1

1. Legal,

I think the qualification #s for group one are wrong.



And you're right, as for some reason, I forgot how many games were left (not to mention basic math :p, though those of you who knew how long I'd been up at that point know why).

Anyways, the new numbers, as adjusted in the scores thread, for Group 1 are:

D2R's Qualifying Number is 10, his playoff number is 9
Quak's Playoff Number is 10

Note that no changes were made to the standings, as those are correct.

I'll wait till the finals/CoH, I think, cos I'm not gonna have time until after the weekend to think of something to put. Hope I don't qualify now...I like the idea of more shocks, they make rp easier.

1. Legal,

I think the qualification #s for group one are wrong.

2. Qazox, Jeruselem could someone post a link to an RP explaining just what it was that Fowler did?

Ulz/Az-cz here is the 1st post that mentions his transgressions:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13062644&highlight=jason+fowler#post13062644

I'm looking to play a few friendlies between the end of qualifying and the start of the world cup proper, how should I go about getting these set up?

Contact the nations you'd like to have friendlies with, preferably by TG on nationstates and once you've arranged it with them tell the hosts.

hey question, how do you guys generate the results of the games? is it just totally random?

ps football/soccer is awesome.

hey question, how do you guys generate the results of the games? is it just totally random?

Some helpful links:

World Cup FAQs (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Cup_FAQs)

Scorinating (generating results) (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Scorinate)

Any other questions, feel free to post.

Wh00t! I beat Az for the first time in 6 matches!!! They have scored more goals against Sel Appa than any other nation: 22.

amazing, thanks starblaydia... i'm actually in the process of creating an nswiki article right now; so i could have found that info myself, eh? but anyway, everyone should read it and tell me how crappy/awesome it is, i'm a little new at this: http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/The_Pazhujeb_Islands

From Uiri's latest RP, here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13084828&postcount=404).

OOC: St Samuel, I didn't allow you to godmode scoring events so I will ignore your commentary, but will stick with your goalscorers.


This (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13084470&postcount=400) is St Samuel's RP, and I have to ask what precisely in there (admittedly there are eight to choose from) is a godmodded scoring event? Lobbing the keeper? Scoring in a goalmouth scramble? Scoring a from a free kick? Or on the counter-attack?

Surely not.

He godmodded intercepting a pass between my defense. To tell you the truth, they'd probably pass to one of the midfielders. The fact he also chose when I scored got me too. an 8th and a 12th minute goal is just too close and too early. I normally spread out my goals when I am allowed to do commentary like that.

EDIT: Actually, I did that to him, so I guess he has that right. I'll edit out the Godmod execrpt and correct it.

He godmodded intercepting a pass between my defense. To tell you the truth, they'd probably pass to one of the midfielders. The fact he also chose when I scored got me too. an 8th and a 12th minute goal is just too close and too early. I normally spread out my goals when I am allowed to do commentary like that.

Don't forget that Uiri is 99th in the world (10 places less than Starblaydia, even, who haven't played a World Cup Match in over an IC decade), while St Samuel are a very respectable 45th, so Intercepting 'unlikely' passes - I know my former coaches would have yelled at me for not passing to fellow defenders, but that's beside the point - and scoring quickly is surely nowhere near the boundaries.

Let's hope we don't meet in WC38, otherwise you'll accuse my RPs of being Godmods in every sentence :D

amazing, thanks starblaydia... i'm actually in the process of creating an nswiki article right now; so i could have found that info myself, eh? but anyway, everyone should read it and tell me how crappy/awesome it is, i'm a little new at this: http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/The_Pazhujeb_Islands

Good start on wiki thing, err that map needs work :p

amazing, thanks starblaydia... i'm actually in the process of creating an nswiki article right now; so i could have found that info myself, eh? but anyway, everyone should read it and tell me how crappy/awesome it is, i'm a little new at this: http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/The_Pazhujeb_Islands

You're very welcome. A very good start, thumbs up on the purple flag too :D

I agree with Jer, the map does need a bit of refining but the history is excellent, and there's intriguing RP possibilities with the isolation from the rest of the world. Keep up the good work!

You're very welcome. A very good start, thumbs up on the purple flag too :D

I agree with Jer, the map does need a bit of refining but the history is excellent, and there's intriguing RP possibilities with the isolation from the rest of the world. Keep up the good work!

I fixed this map! Just a photoshop filter to fix those edges up.
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4752/pazhujeb20islands20mapxv8.png

He godmodded intercepting a pass between my defense. To tell you the truth, they'd probably pass to one of the midfielders. The fact he also chose when I scored got me too. an 8th and a 12th minute goal is just too close and too early. I normally spread out my goals when I am allowed to do commentary like that.

EDIT: Actually, I did that to him, so I guess he has that right. I'll edit out the Godmod execrpt and correct it.

If you want to re check my post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13084470&postcount=400) it was actually St Samuel that scored on the 8th and 12th minute. I had you down for scoring on the 21st, 34th and 39th minutes. I hope 18 minutes and scoring three goals wasn't too close together! And I also apologise for mentioning your defenders passing to one another, I didn't realise that Uiri defenders are not allowed to pass to each other.

I hope 18 minutes and scoring three goals wasn't too close together!
Apparently ninety minutes and scoring ten goals wasn’t too close together… :p

Jeruselem:

I have NO IDEA what schedule you are looking at, but i finish with Billopesha not CAM, I've already played them, you and Yafor 2 twice.

Unless that mistake is an IC one, then forget what i wrote above.

Jerusalem, that's awesome, thanks a lot.

Jeruselem:

I have NO IDEA what schedule you are looking at, but i finish with Billopesha not CAM, I've already played them, you and Yafor 2 twice.

Unless that mistake is an IC one, then forget what i wrote above.

My mistake. They play Yafor 2 ... oops. Fixed the RP and confused myself again.

Jerusalem, that's awesome, thanks a lot.

The filter also made the sea look darker if you noticed.
Ok the map is broken on WIKI now, check the file name matches.
Imageshack screwed around with original filename.

Qazox,

I'm not sure you'd know the reason why Liverpool England is mad at Qazox. IC Az-cz doesn't know, and I don't think LE disclosed IC either.

If you want to re check my post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13084470&postcount=400) it was actually St Samuel that scored on the 8th and 12th minute. I had you down for scoring on the 21st, 34th and 39th minutes. I hope 18 minutes and scoring three goals wasn't too close together! And I also apologise for mentioning your defenders passing to one another, I didn't realise that Uiri defenders are not allowed to pass to each other.

Yeah, I know it was you who scored in the 8th and 12th minutes. I felt you godmoded those scoring events, but nevermind, I did it to you and you reserved the right to do it back. 18 mniutes and scoring three goals isn't too much of a big deal. 34th and 39th minute goals are just testamount to Okudil's skill ;) . The defense are allowed to pass between them it is just very, very unlikely.

Uiri,

A godmod is usually considered something outside the realm of regular football plays. As an example Milchama once godmodded a play where a player flew into the stadium on a missile and scored a goal with the ref somehow missing it. That's a godmod.

To quote from the World Cup FAQ:

If a player wants total realism from their football team, this will often be denied. Can players score within a second of the whistle blowing, or from the half-way line, or without looking, or after the 'keeper has dribbled the length of the pitch, or anything equally (or moreso) outlandish?

I'd say that what St. Samuel did is well within the realms of total realism. If you don't want any mention of how the goals were scored you should state that implicitly in your roster.

On an entirely different note...

*looks around and begins sacrificing everything in sight to various deities*

Oh, ok, well then I guess I'll have to state that explicitly in my roster next time. Or maybe not and I'll just suck up the fact that they can say whatever they want.

*gives 159 rubber chickens to Casari*

EDIT: After the qualifications are done, will someone post the new KPB rankings?

I'll just suck up the fact that they can say whatever they want.

No, but they can say how the goals were scored. Depending on the style of RP it's often pretty hard not to mention how the goals were scored. And yes you have to have some flexibility. The past two cups I had specifically stated that I didn't start any forwards and that my goals should mostly be scored in the second half, but yet I still ocassionally played teams who would RP my forwards scoring goals in the first half, when they obviously wouldn't have been in the game. So it goes.

EDIT: After the qualifications are done, will someone post the new KPB rankings?

As soon as MD 14 ends, I will be updating the KPB rankings, which as they will factor into the finals rankings, needs to be done. Note that the playoff matches do not (as is normal) count towards the rankings, though considering the winner gets a trip to the finals, it can have an effect in the long run.

As soon as MD 14 ends, I will be updating the KPB rankings, which as they will factor into the finals rankings, needs to be done. Note that the playoff matches do not (as is normal) count towards the rankings, though considering the winner gets a trip to the finals, it can have an effect in the long run.

Good. We haven't had this policy in awhile.

@...somebody: it isn't unrealistic to score from the centreline. A video of that was posted here a few pages ago

@...somebody: it isn't unrealistic to score from the centreline. A video of that was posted here a few pages ago

It happens so rarely, though, which is why it gets featured on video-sharing websites. Hell, even Pelé couldn't score from the half-way line in his career, and Beckham only managed it once and that was against Wimbledon, iirc.

It's so rare that I think it's acceptable to call that a godmod, as International 'keepers are so rarely beaten from that distance.

It happens so rarely, though, which is why it gets featured on video-sharing websites. Hell, even Pelé couldn't score from the half-way line in his career, and Beckham only managed it once and that was against Wimbledon, iirc.

It's so rare that I think it's acceptable to call that a godmod, as International 'keepers are so rarely beaten from that distance.

True, although that Beckham goal was against then-Scotland goalkeeper Neil Sullivan, but we'll overlook that seeing as every Scottish goalkeeper in the last millenium was shit :)

I agree, by the way, goals scored from the half-way line are pushing the god-modding line, but thats not to say they can't happen, as long as you RP them properly. There was a Newcastle keeper last season that got beat by that distance, but mainly because he slipped going for the ball, rather than because the shot was any good (which it wasn't really, it bounced a few times before it hit the net, with the poor goalie desperately trying to scramble to his feet on the wet ground). Basically, if you don't want to piss someone off with a god-mod, give the opposition goalie (or your goalie if you're sick enough to give the opposition a fifty-yarder) a good reason to have not made the save. Its just one of those things that you don't want to make happen too often.

It's so rare that I think it's acceptable to call that a godmod, as International 'keepers are so rarely beaten from that distance.

Time for an ice hockey reference: Anyone remembers Tommy Salo in the 2002 Olympics QFs? :p

Time for an ice hockey reference: Anyone remembers Tommy Salo in the 2002 Olympics QFs? :p

I do! I do!

Qazox,

I'm not sure you'd know the reason why Liverpool England is mad at Qazox. IC Az-cz doesn't know, and I don't think LE disclosed IC either.

You're right... I forget sometime what's OC and IC.

It'll be fixed.

On second thought, since it has been mentioned in a subsequent RP by anothter nation, I can't get rid of it.

How about that, my character Kate Dallas said the group 4 final 4 would be
Jeruselem, Qazox, C&M, Yafor 2

and it turned out as

Qazox, Jeruselem, C&M, Yafor 2

On behalf of the countless unnamed Vephrese number crunchers*, I present to you the post-qualifying KPB rankings (Excel (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Post-WC37Q%20Rankings.xls) or ODS (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Post-WC37Q%20Rankings.ods)).

* After completing the task, the number crunchers themselves were too depressed to present their product. I guess that's what happens after a qualifying run where you only move up from 55th to 53rd.

True, although that Beckham goal was against then-Scotland goalkeeper Neil Sullivan, but we'll overlook that seeing as every Scottish goalkeeper in the last millenium was shit :)

I agree, by the way, goals scored from the half-way line are pushing the god-modding line, but thats not to say they can't happen, as long as you RP them properly. There was a Newcastle keeper last season that got beat by that distance, but mainly because he slipped going for the ball, rather than because the shot was any good (which it wasn't really, it bounced a few times before it hit the net, with the poor goalie desperately trying to scramble to his feet on the wet ground). Basically, if you don't want to piss someone off with a god-mod, give the opposition goalie (or your goalie if you're sick enough to give the opposition a fifty-yarder) a good reason to have not made the save. Its just one of those things that you don't want to make happen too often.
Don't forget Paul Robinson's goal against Watford last season - fine effort from the England goalkeeper there :)

To quote from the World Cup FAQ:

If a player wants total realism from their football team, this will often be denied. Can players score within a second of the whistle blowing, or from the half-way line, or without looking, or after the 'keeper has dribbled the length of the pitch, or anything equally (or moreso) outlandish?

How about the keeper dribbling from the halfway line instead?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya6Xt6f4ZYs

that's good, for the first time in three straight qualifications my rank actually went up instead of down. :cool:

go non-RP bonus the wc proper is next!

<must...resist...temptation...to...RP...>

How about the keeper dribbling from the halfway line instead?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya6Xt6f4ZYs

The best part is the high-five the other goalie gives him, hehe. My gf is a Leicester fan, so when she heard that Forest had scored in the first minute, she was not a happy bunny, lol.

On hearing why, though, she was a bit happier :D

Official Presidential Announcement.

Voting Now Open!

What do you vote for?

There will be 1 thing to under-go a vote.

1. Cup of Harmony Host Vote

~ Only current EWCC members are eligble to vote please see list if you are eligible. ~

As Q-Topia (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=537361) is the only current bid the vote will have the three following options

a. Approval of Bid
b. Approval of Bid should relatively minor changes be made (please include in vote)
c. Open up Hosting again

How to Vote

Please contact me via TG, email, on IRC or other method and Give your votes for the vote underway.

The host vote will use a First Past The Post system.

When Will Voting End?

Exactly a Week from now, 7 days from when this is posted the voting will end and the results will be published.

Who can Vote?

The Following people are eligble to vote:


Ad'ihan
Alasdair I Frosticus/The Archregimancy
Ariddia
Az-cz/Ulzaxid
Bazalonia
Capitalizt Slani/Commerce Heights JSY
Cafundeu/Estresse Intenso
Casari
Geisenfried
Kura-Pelland
Milchama
Novapsolu
Oliverry
Quakmybush/Bushes Been Quaked
Rejistania/The HURD
Spaam
Starblaydia
The Lowland Clans
Vephrall
Vilita/Turori


I am looking forward to hearing from you!

Sativaville v. Oickoidia

Qazox is never allow to complain again. :p

Qazox is never allow to complain again. :p

Yeah! My crappy Jeru FC is ranked higher than them ...

Here's something from the new rankings

23 Tynelia
24 Qazox
25 Bostopia

How about the keeper dribbling from the halfway line instead?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya6Xt6f4ZYs

Wow that keeper just mowed through the defenders like they were standing still! :eek:

and yes jeruselem, Qazox and Tynelia seem to be joined at the hip these days when it comes to the rankings. this is a new peak for Tynelia though. 24th two cups ago before dropping to 27th and then 29th before now.

Qazox is never allow to complain again. :p

Too bad for some reason I can't login under Sativaville, which is one reason why i haven't RP'ed them yet, and two is the same reason as Tynelia.

Now watch Sativaville romp past Oickoidia and finally qualify for the Cup in its 9th and final attempt.

Also the WC Draw itself hasn't come out yet, so i may still have a reason to complain :p

...EWWC...

Emergency Women's World Cup? Qaz isn't that desperate, is he?

Emergency Women's World Cup? Qaz isn't that desperate, is he?

I deny such accusations that I would mis-spell or otherwise mis-type any word, let alone initialisms


(fixed :p)

I deny such accusations that I would mis-spell or otherwise mis-type any word, let alone initialisms


(fixed :p)

Last edited by Bazalonia : Today at 6:59 PM.

http://www.raptorblog.com/images/orly_owl_av.jpg

I know I should probably know this, but which file in the ODS thing has the rankings. If it is the contents then I believe I am 63, but I am not sure.

what is my ranking

I know I should probably know this, but which file in the ODS thing has the rankings. If it is the contents then I believe I am 63, but I am not sure.

Do you have OpenOffice or Excel?


62 Taeshan 7.43
63 Uiri 7.29


That's both yours and Taeshans

Emergency Women's World Cup? Qaz isn't that desperate, is he?

I had nothing to do with that.. NOTHING.

No Qazox, getting Oickoidia in the playoffs bans you from ever complaining again. That's a ridiculously lucky draw.

The playoff draw was made at the halfway stage, so we would not have known which team would face who. Sativaville could easily have drawn The HURD, for example.

I know LE. I don't think you rigged it to give Qazox an easy draw. I just think that's an argument against the random draw. I'm definitely in the camp to reduce the amount of randomness in the cup.

No Qazox, getting Oickoidia in the playoffs bans you from ever complaining again. That's a ridiculously lucky draw.

No offense, but :p to you.

I've been here longer, as so has my puppet.

Besides, YOU and every other new team from WC 31 on has had a easier time of it than us from 25 to 29. So we'll compain about what ever we want.

I'm definitely in the camp to reduce the amount of randomness in the cup.

Then we shouldn't have the RP bounuses then. That would DECREASE the randomness in the Cup by tenfold.

I know LE. I don't think you rigged it to give Qazox an easy draw. I just think that's an argument against the random draw. I'm definitely in the camp to reduce the amount of randomness in the cup.

Uhm, in case you haven't realised.

The WC is run on randomness.

Thank you.

Uhm, in case you haven't realised.

The WC is run on randomness.

Thank you.
Don’t be silly!

The teams seeded 3rd–98th are placed sequentially in qualifying groups (the 1st and 2nd seeds are the hosts). The 3rd–14th seeds qualify with 14–0–0 records, the 15th–26th seeds qualify with 12–0–2 records, and the 27th–38th seeds enter playoffs with 10–0–4 records. The 27th–32nd seeds win both legs of the playoffs. Then, the qualified teams are placed sequentially in first-round groups, and the 1st–8th seeds advance with 3–0–0 records with the 9th–16th seeds behind them at 2–0–1. In the second round, the 1st seed defeats the 16th seed, the 8th seed defeats the 9th seed, et cetera. The 1st seed beats the 8th seed in the quarterfinals, the 4th seed in the semifinals, and their co-host in the final to win the Cup. :p

I know LE. I don't think you rigged it to give Qazox an easy draw. I just think that's an argument against the random draw. I'm definitely in the camp to reduce the amount of randomness in the cup.
Unfortunately, you are in the minority camp, along with Qazox and Taeshan. I think you'll find that the randomness in this cup is no more or less than what you would find in Real Life™, taking into account the natural lack of stability in the NS universe.

Qazox,

What the heck are you talking about? RP bonuses don't increase random it. They decrease it.

And to everyone else,

Of course there are random factors involved, I just wish they had a smaller effect. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that by and large those who put the most work in consistently get the best results.

Smaller effect? RP bonus was only instituted to encourage people to RP. People who "put in work consistently", good for them, but I don't see why that they should be awarded any more than they are now (which, after our last discussion on RP bonus v.s. ranks v.s. randomness, is already a lot - just look at those who've RPed a lot in the past few cups). I am not really comfortable with increasing bonuses even further.

The 1st seed beats the 8th seed in the quarterfinals, the 4th seed in the semifinals, and their co-host in the final to win the Cup. :pB-but...Who scorinates?

And who hosts the next time around?

I wasn't suggesting a further increase. I was simply suggesting that I like crafting schedules that reduce the importance of the group draw. Having seeded playoffs is one good way to do that.

Results are random, and you RP because you're on a RP Forum if you didn't find it fun, you wouldn't be here anyway.

I just constantly miss something in this argument, don't I?

I propose we settle all this by creating a scorinator to test in the BoF or CoH that relies very little on the random number.

Talking of the CoH, when does it start, im getting football withdrawal problems!

Talking of the CoH, when does it start, im getting football withdrawal problems!

I'm holding a few friendlies between now and when the World Cup finals/COH starts so if you want a friendly feel free to tg me.

I propose we settle all this by creating a scorinator to test in the BoF or CoH that relies very little on the random number.

That's what the u21 World Cup used to do. You also got wacky scores for playing weird formations. I'm opposed to testing this out in a competition that would affect rankings. Do it in an invitational, by all means, but not the BoF or CoH.

Talking of the CoH, when does it start, im getting football withdrawal problems!

Qutar and myself are currently waiting approval to host the CoH. We will be deciding upon who enters the CoH after the playoffs have ended, then launching the competition soon after that, should we get the approval required.

I'm holding a few friendlies between now and when the World Cup finals/COH starts so if you want a friendly feel free to tg me.


Yeah, St Samuel would be happy to play Sorthern Northland in a friendly. Do you want home or away.

Plus, if anyone wants a friendly we are looking to play a few matches.

I wasn't suggesting a further increase. I was simply suggesting that I like crafting schedules that reduce the importance of the group draw. Having seeded playoffs is one good way to do that.

IF that was what you meant by I'm definitely in the camp to reduce the amount of randomness in the cup. Then i misconstrued what the point of you complaint was about.

If you'd like me to correct my incorrect interpretation, please stay on the line, an operator will be shortly with you...

<playing Muzak version of "Won't be Fooled Again">

...Please stay on the line, the current wait time for a live operator is: 1 million minutes.

Ummm, so real life decided to hit me hard, and I'm mildly amused that my team made a venerable but disgusting exit due to my absence. This is me hoping that it doesn't happen again x_X

Yeah, St Samuel would be happy to play Sorthern Northland in a friendly. Do you want home or away.

Plus, if anyone wants a friendly we are looking to play a few matches.

All our others are at home, so a change of scenery would be nice, so if a bunch of rubbish footballers visiting St. Samuel is ok we'll go for an away game, although we're just as happy to have both a home and away friendly.

This is probably too late and unimportant to do anything about, but:

The original group draw (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13045457&postcount=1) featured Oickoidia in Group 11 and Ambrose-Douglas in Group 12. Once scorination began, they were treated as if in the other groups, with Oickoidia eventually taking third in Group 12. Again, I don't believe this is a major matter of concern, but I just felt it should be pointed out. Group 11 truly is the group of death if it can send two representatives to the playoffs. ;)

This is probably too late and unimportant to do anything about, but:

The original group draw (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13045457&postcount=1) featured Oickoidia in Group 11 and Ambrose-Douglas in Group 12. Once scorination began, they were treated as if in the other groups, with Oickoidia eventually taking third in Group 12. Again, I don't believe this is a major matter of concern, but I just felt it should be pointed out. Group 11 truly is the group of death if it can send two representatives to the playoffs. ;)

Both teams were same seeds and unranked (or nearly unranked), so there's no real issues there, it's unlikely it would've made a difference (neither team RPed either). Also, no one noticed this earlier, which says something in itself [and it also says no one has the right to bitch about an inconsequential error that affects no one else, especially when no one raised any doubts earlier]. I would have liked it if it were spotted much earlier than one day before the playoffs, though.

All our others are at home, so a change of scenery would be nice, so if a bunch of rubbish footballers visiting St. Samuel is ok we'll go for an away game, although we're just as happy to have both a home and away friendly.

Cool, home game for St Samuel against Sorthern Northland it is then.

it totally affects me if ad had been in my group instead of oikioda i might be in the playoffs

It's a non-issue, from what I can see. Two teams from the same draw pot were switched prior to the first day of qualifying. It's not like they were exchanged between matchdays, altering the course of qualifying at some point. It's just as possible that the draw was posted in the reverse, and the games were posted correctly as it was the other way.

Considering that I did most of the draw legwork (we did it all together, but I posted them in the order on our RP sheet), I can say that the mistake was in the posting of the draw, as Ambrose-Douglas and Oickoidia were drawn into the groups they were scorinated in. That said, I regret the error, and apologize for the inconvenience.

In reply to Taeshan's comments: Considering that both teams were on relatively equal footing, and did not RP, if they were flipped incorrectly, it would not have affected the results one bit; the only change would have been that A-D would have received Oickoidia's results, and vice-versa, so your final place would have stayed the same, only with the team names flipped. As the teams were in the correct draw order, that is a non-issue, however.

I can assure you that the draw for the Finals Groups will be double, triple, and quadruple-checked.

Oh dear!

Satviaville [0 - 1] Oickoidia

:p

So you hosts wont forget this time

ESF v Jeruselem in the second playoff leg
that is, Jeruselem is traveling to ESF for a friendly, ok?



















...

*TGs both hosts just to be safe*

So you hosts wont forget this time

ESF v Jeruselem in the second playoff leg
that is, Jeruselem is traveling to ESF for a friendly, ok?


and I hope ESF has a good time in Jeruselem. Do try not to use the self-powered vehicles provided by the royal family :p

and I hope ESF has a good time in Jeruselem. Do try not to use the self-powered vehicles provided by the royal family :p

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/bettia/gumph/15f0lxg.jpg

that picture is hilarious. where did you find that?

It's quite blatantly a self-portrait by Bettia.

Oi, Jeruselem's self-powered vehicles involve a soft bed and lots of alcohol :p
The emphasis is on fun not exercise.

Oi, Jeruselem's self-powered vehicles involve a soft bed and lots of alcohol :p
The emphasis is on fun not exercise.

Though that explains the, er, athleticism of the Royal Family :p

In other news, I have a meeting of indeterminable length starting at 9 PM EDT, meaning that at worst, the cutoff might not be til after 11, FYI. My apologies for the potential inconvenience.

Self-powered vehicles in the Han Empire:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c5/Gama_trail.jpg

Squornshelan self-powered vehicle:

http://germes-online.com/direct/dbimage/50336597/Combat_Boot.jpg

Squornshelan self-powered vehicle:

http://germes-online.com/direct/dbimage/50336597/Combat_Boot.jpg

Win

Squornshelan self-powered vehicle:

http://germes-online.com/direct/dbimage/50336597/Combat_Boot.jpg

lots of lesbians then....:p

Of course, Sativaville lost, that's what they do, choke, like the New York Mets.

Wow. Ouch Qazox.

Also is Oickoidia the new Quakmybush?

Poor stoners! Oickoidia - total of zero RP posts so far.

Wow. Ouch Qazox.

Also is Oickoidia the new Quakmybush?

Did Oickoidia even RP?

Regardless, whoever this person is, they probably ought to buy lottery tickets while their luck's like this.

Host announcement:

Matchday One is being brought forward by one day to October 6 (UTC, October 5 US time). There is no change to the draw date (October 4) or MD2 (October 8).

To answer Geis's question, no. This is possibly the luckiest run anybody has ever had in the cup, and my commiserations to Sativaville, for being on the wrong side of it.

In other news, MD 1 of the finals will be held on Oct 6, rather than Oct. 7, which will take care of the concerns about not having a day between each MD.

To answer Geis's question, no. This is possibly the luckiest run anybody has ever had in the cup, and my commiserations to Sativaville, for being on the wrong side of it.

In other news, MD 1 of the finals will be held on Oct 6, rather than Oct. 7, which will take care of the concerns about not having a day between each MD.

HOLY Carp!

Someone feels sorry for me/my puppet?!?

So can we offically say that SATIVAVILLE is the most snake-biten, black cat crossin', mirror shatterin' BEST TEAM never to make a World Cup at 0 fer 9?

I do have one serious question:

How the heck do i go about getting Sativaville re-able to post on Jolt?

Ever since it disappeared for a day i haven't been able to log-on as them anymore? Is it a Jolt thing or a Nationstates thing?

I do have one serious question:

How the heck do i go about getting Sativaville re-able to post on Jolt?

Ever since it disappeared for a day i haven't been able to log-on as them anymore? Is it a Jolt thing or a Nationstates thing?

Best bet would be to file a Getting Help Request (http://www.nationstates.net/page=help)

No, all you have to do is make sure your email has been cleared.

Best bet would be to file a Getting Help Request (http://www.nationstates.net/page=help)

No, all you have to do is make sure your email has been cleared.

I'll try those and see if it works afterwards.

if it doesn't, Guess i'll have to let Sativaville die and have it come back as Sativaville2.0

If I have to do that, any chance the sequel and pick up where the original left off in terms of KPB?

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'll try those and see if it works afterwards.

if it doesn't, Guess i'll have to let Sativaville die and have it come back as Sativaville2.0

If I have to do that, any chance the sequel and pick up where the original left off in terms of KPB?

Thanks for the suggestions.

Don't restart need Sativaville KPBs really unless you want to.

No, all you have to do is make sure your email has been cleared.

Right or that.... post as Qazox in moderation.

Right or that.... post as Qazox in moderation.

true i could do that, The Gupta Dynasty has been doing that for years...lol

but IF I did re-start Sativaville, would the KPB ranking be dropped (after 3 World Cups of course) or could Sativaville2.0 assume it?

oickoidia = bl

?? bl? Bad Luck?

(Damn jolt time fluxes)

oickoidia = bl

?? bl? Bad Luck?

(Damn jolt time fluxes)

oickoidia hasn't logged for about 9 days. It's in a massive region of 2 nations.

Of course, Sativaville lost, that's what they do, choke, like the New York Mets.

:upyours:


I think I have a chance at moving on if I get drawn with one of the hosts and Oicky. *dreams*

I think I have a chance at moving on if I get drawn with one of the hosts and Oicky. *dreams*

If three teams that have never been in a cup before, one of them in contention for worst qualifier ever got drawn together, I think we'd be well within our rights to scream bloody murder. Thankfully I don't think Legal or LE would have such a poor way of doing the draw.

Don't restart need Sativaville KPBs really unless you want to.

Could someone translate that into English please. :)

As for Oickoidia qualifying while The Archregimancy didn't, I think this cup has swung far too far in the random direction.

As for Oickoidia qualifying while The Archregimancy didn't, I think this cup has swung far too far in the random direction.

Perhaps a backlash for the possible WC38 hosts - whoever gives the biggest RP bonuses will win the vote? Or more rank-based results (I know which I'd prefer, being unranked presently!)

The finals draw, like the qualifying draw, will be seeded.

The finals draw, like the qualifying draw, will be seeded.

So, like, all the best teams will play together, right? That would be the fair and balanced way. Yes... >.>

As for Oickoidia qualifying while The Archregimancy didn't, I think this cup has swung far too far in the random direction.

So? I have yet to figure out what's wrong with random. :p

Cas,

You're telling me you don't have any problem with an non-RPing first time team making the cup while teams like The Archregimancy, Estresse Intenso, Rejistania, Candelaria & Marquez, and even you yourself don't. Of course there needs to be some randomness, but I just don't think there should be very much, and it's effect should diminish a great amount over big gaps in rank & rp. I think most of the randomness should come into effect when teams on the same plane are playing each other.

No, I don't. I like to think I have perspective when it comes to that. And seeing as I'm only here to RP, there are some interesting RP possibilities from being in the nation's second Cup of Harmony. Then again, when you do the exact same RP over and over just to make sure you qualify, I guess you have more of a reason to complain. I, for one, found the level of randomness pleasant and enjoyable, and would like similar amounts in the future.

Hi! I'm back and online again! What did I miss!


As for Oickoidia qualifying while The Archregimancy didn't, I think this cup has swung far too far in the random direction.

Oh.




More seriously, I haven't been able to contribute for a week or so, so have no particular reason to complain about the monks' inability to qualify for this World Cup. It's disappointing on a personal level, but I appreciate that where numbers are random, there must occasionally be teams ranked 20th who fail to qualify. We can't be running a tournament where qualification is restricted to the top 32 seeds. So I'll get over whatever minor disappointment I might feel, and I look forward to winning the Cup of Harmony; and will support any CoH host bid that guarantees me the latter trophy (joke! joke!)

Oickoidia's qualification is a completely separate issue from my primary team's non-qualification, and far more of a concern. In the Archregimancy's case, we should all accept that a 20th-ranked team might fail to make it, however consistently that team might RP. That non-rping team with a rank as low as Oickoidia's can qualify, however, does potentially raise eyebrows at the extent to which both rank and RP'ing could be completely subverted by the scorinator. Surely even those nations who feel that the RP bonus should be limited in weight might be concerned at Oickoidia's qualification.


Which, summed up, I suppose means that I basically support Az's general premise that this cup might have been slightly too random, but feel that far more emphasis should be placed in this regard on the potentially problematic successful qualification of Oickoidia than on the non-qualification of certain teams.

And I'll blame any incoherence in the above to jetlag. ;)

internet game.... who cares.

Oickoidia is British Londinium's puppet, I think. I think it's interesting that they qualified and don't mind a good bit of randomness to spice things up.

@ Kiryu, seeded means higher ranks have a better chance of going through. They are separated in different groups so they don't have to play each other.

@ Kiryu, seeded means higher ranks have a better chance of going through. They are separated in different groups so they don't have to play each other.

Pffft.

So, like, all the best teams will play together, right? That would be the fair and balanced way. Yes... >.>

You want to play Oickoidia then? :p

You want to play Oickoidia then? :p

I don't, seeing the teams they beat out.

(this post just about ensures that i will be drawn with them, and lose to them, keeping me out of the 2nd round)

I don't, seeing the teams they beat out.

(this post just about ensures that i will be drawn with them, and lose to them, keeping me out of the 2nd round)

I want to avoid Zwangzug, they caused me not to make the 2nd round last cup.

I want to avoid Zwangzug, they caused me not to make the 2nd round last cup.

No offense, But i want to avoid you, since i've lost to you twice in the Cup, not to mention we were lumped in the same qualifing group.

I won't go into too much detail on things until after all's said and done, as I don't feel the current scorination setup should be discussed by the host until afterwards, but I just wanted to provide some numbers regarding qualification, and who advanced, by seed:

#1 seeds (Top 12 in KPB): all advanced, 11 automatically, 1 via playoff
#2 seeds : 11/12 advanced, 9 auto, 2 via playoff
#3 seeds: 5 advanced, 4 auto, 1 via playoff (beating another #3 to do so), with 3 others in the playoff as well. (i.e. 8/12 alive after MD 14)
#4 seeds: only D2R advanced via playoff, beating the only other #4 to advance past MD 14 (C&M)
#5 seeds: all went down by MD 14
#6 seeds: only Kanisov went past MD 14, losing their playoff to Cafundeu
#7 seeds: Oickoidia beat the long odds to advance in the playoff
#8 seeds: Casari was the only one to go past MD 14, losing a playoff, though had a post-RP rank that put them at about the level of the 4/5 seeds.

So, Overall:
Of the teams expected to autoqualify, 20/24 did so, with no auto spot going to a team outside the 3 group favorites. In addition, of the teams expected to autoqualify, 23/24 actually did qualify.

Take those for what you will.

Looks like the numbers agree with what I said. If anything, this cup has been not random enough! Considering only two teams outside the top 36 qualified... a few cups ago we'd have people complaining that it is too hard for outsiders to qualify. Sure Oick is an abberation, but squarely within the realms of statistical normality. Guess a few people here should just stfu and move on :)

I won't go into too much detail on things until after all's said and done, as I don't feel the current scorination setup should be discussed by the host until afterwards, but I just wanted to provide some numbers regarding qualification, and who advanced, by seed:

#1 seeds (Top 12 in KPB): all advanced, 11 automatically, 1 via playoff
#2 seeds : 11/12 advanced, 9 auto, 2 via playoff
#3 seeds: 5 advanced, 4 auto, 1 via playoff (beating another #3 to do so), with 3 others in the playoff as well. (i.e. 8/12 alive after MD 14)
#4 seeds: only D2R advanced via playoff, beating the only other #4 to advance past MD 14 (C&M)
#5 seeds: all went down by MD 14
#6 seeds: only Kanisov went past MD 14, losing their playoff to Cafundeu
#7 seeds: Oickoidia beat the long odds to advance in the playoff
#8 seeds: Casari was the only one to go past MD 14, losing a playoff, though had a post-RP rank that put them at about the level of the 4/5 seeds.

So, Overall:
Of the teams expected to autoqualify, 20/24 did so, with no auto spot going to a team outside the 3 group favorites. In addition, of the teams expected to autoqualify, 23/24 actually did qualify.

Take those for what you will.

Thanks to Novapsolu for providing those stats.

That does put a different perspective on things. In that regard, results are not dissimilar to WC28, which NMS and myself hosted. Despite concerns during the qualifiers over the randomness of results, in the end the overwhelming majority of the top two seeds (and all of the first seeds) qualified.

Oickoidia is in this regard clearly an aberration, if a particularly wild one. But by definition, any statistically unlikely event is by definition statistically possible, however small that possibility may be.

So as the only second seed to have missed out, I'm inclined to now agree with Spaam that if anything we didn't have enough top seeds struggle (though I wish he'd been as sanguine about statistically improbable non-qualifications in WC28)

What i found disappointing was that low-ranked nations like Dance 2 Revolution and Oickoidia could qualify without posting a roster or RPing once during the qualifying matches. Having nations like them in the finals is a waste of everyone's time.

For sure, RPing should not guarantee a place in the finals but non-RPing nations shouldn't be doing that well. While randomness can make NSWC fun, rewarding non-performers does not.

What I would not like to see is a return to the cynical situation that was occuring when I rejoined NSWC (WC30) where highly ranked nations didn't RP during qualifying and only bothered once the Cup Proper began.

I feel sorry for C&M. Yes, I had RP them out of the automatic position as I know I have terrible playoff record but they lost both playoff games.

So as the only second seed to have missed out, I'm inclined to now agree with Spaam that if anything we didn't have enough top seeds struggle (though I wish he'd been as sanguine about statistically improbable non-qualifications in WC28)
You know its not the fact that I didn't qualify - I am more than used to that. Its finishing last that got me. But hey, que sera!

For anyone who cares, I have started a World Ultimate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_%28sport%29) (Frisbee) Championship. Please sign up (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=539874) if you are interested.

This will be my only spam of it in this thread, unlike Qazox.

Group B - Elves Security Forces, Jeruselem, Qazox, Oickoidia

REDRAW!

I think the draw was rigged. And, as such, congratulate LE on a successful World Cup ;)

I think the draw was rigged. And, as such, congratulate LE on a successful World Cup ;)

It's like Jeruselem and Qazox are married at the group stage, WC35 to WC37.

It's like Jeruselem and Qazox are married at the group stage, WC35 to WC37.
I now pronounce you, husband and bitch :p

Group B - Elves Security Forces, Jeruselem, Qazox, Oickoidia

REDRAW!

Didn't I predict it???

I knew oickoidia would be in my group and Jeruselem. missed on the ESF part, kinda figured i'd be stuck with one of the co-hosts.

I now pronounce you, husband and bitch :p

Well, I'm the bitch I guess ...

http://www.webweaver.nu/clipart/img/holidays/weddings/bride-groom-on-stairs.gif

I rather like the draw for both my nations :)

Didn't I predict it???

I knew oickoidia would be in my group and Jeruselem. missed on the ESF part, kinda figured i'd be stuck with one of the co-hosts.
NS World Cup Rule #1: Too much n00bish complaining gets your screwed in the most poetic way possible. Or something like that? ;)

Didn't I predict it???

I knew oickoidia would be in my group and Jeruselem. missed on the ESF part, kinda figured i'd be stuck with one of the co-hosts.

Well, it wasn't Bettia - the other team which seems to follow me around.

I rather like the draw for both my nations :)

:p to you.

It's like Jeruselem and Qazox are married at the group stage, WC35 to WC37.

BTW it was World Cups 31 and 35 and now 37.

Only wierd thing is I've avoided either Co-host all 5 times so far.

Can I say... Group C Group of Death?

Flakey memory ... sorta flakey ...

Oh well!

Post-qualifier ranks

Group A - Ad'ihan (UNR), Zwangzug (#8), Wentland (#15), Jasiyun (#32)
Group B - Elves Security Forces (#3), Jeruselem (#12), Qazox (#24), Oickoidia (#75)
Group C - Capitalizt SLANI (#2), Demot (#11), Bazalonia (#14), Turori (#21)
Group D - Ariddia (#1), Schiavonia (#6), Cafundéu (#13), Bostopia (#25)
Group E - Novapsolu (#36), Milchama (#10), Squornshelous (#17), Quakmybush (#26)
Group F - Bettia (#5), The Holy Empire (#16), Sel Appa (#20), Dance 2 Revolution (#39)
Group G - Errinundera (#4), Vilita (#9), Oliverry (#19), Northern Bettia (#31)
Group H - Az-cz (#7), The Lowland Clans (#18), Tynelia (#23), Kiryu-shi (#33)


Last I checked, Ad'ihan had a rank (both from WC36 and from cohost auto-qualification). I'd suggest not posting unofficial ranks if you're going to get them wrong. ;)

Can I say... Group C Group of Death?

I agree

In RL it would be like having France, England, Argentina and Mexico in one group.

Last I checked, Ad'ihan had a rank (both from WC36 and from cohost auto-qualification). I'd suggest not posting unofficial ranks if you're going to get them wrong. ;)

That better? :p

Group A - Ad'ihan (#47 Co-hosts), Zwangzug (#8), Wentland (#15), Jasiyun (#32)
Group B - Elves Security Forces (#3), Jeruselem (#12), Qazox (#24), Oickoidia (#75)
Group C - Capitalizt SLANI (#2), Demot (#11), Bazalonia (#14), Turori (#21)
Group D - Ariddia (#1), Schiavonia (#6), Cafundéu (#13), Bostopia (#25)
Group E - Novapsolu (#36 Co-hosts), Milchama (#10), Squornshelous (#17), Quakmybush (#26)
Group F - Bettia (#5), The Holy Empire (#16), Sel Appa (#20), Dance 2 Revolution (#39)
Group G - Errinundera (#4), Vilita (#9), Oliverry (#19), Northern Bettia (#31)
Group H - Az-cz (#7), The Lowland Clans (#18), Tynelia (#23), Kiryu-shi (#33)

I had a bit trouble with those annoying single quotes.

What i found disappointing was that low-ranked nations like Dance 2 Revolution and Oickoidia could qualify without posting a roster or RPing once during the qualifying matches. Having nations like them in the finals is a waste of everyone's time.

For sure, RPing should not guarantee a place in the finals but non-RPing nations shouldn't be doing that well. While randomness can make NSWC fun, rewarding non-performers does not.

What I would not like to see is a return to the cynical situation that was occuring when I rejoined NSWC (WC30) where highly ranked nations didn't RP during qualifying and only bothered once the Cup Proper began.

Exactly. Oickoidia qualifying in and of itself should send alarms up about the scorinator. It should be VERY RARE for a non-RPing new team to qualify. To have TWO non-RPing non highly ranked teams qualifying is a clear sign that the scorinator is too random. And it doesn't stop there. All sorts of teams finished way out of line with what their rank and RP should indicate. How did Kansiov finish above Estresse Intenso? How did Vephrall finish well behind that same Kansiov team and British Londinium?

Of course there must be randomness, but it's effect should be seen in individual games and over the course of tournaments for comparable teams, but by and large the randomness should even itself out. That's the point of having long qualifiers.

The number of high ranking teams that qualified isn't relevant to that fact. By and large high ranking teams should be qualifying with the exception of the lower ranking non-RPing ones who should be replaced by decently ranked RPing teams. The fact that there aren't that many good doesn't indicate that the scorinator isn't random enough.

And as to randomness being more fun than not random I just don't see that's true. It's much more fun for me to have Archregimancy or Candelaria & Marquez than Oickoidia in the cup because the former are nations that I have history with and that provide me with good RP situations while I gain nothing from Oickoidia. An upset in a game that doesn't involve me doesn't give me too much RP set-up. Dealing with a nation that thinks all non-humans are abberations does. Dealing with a nation of crazy pranksters does. Even dealing with a high ranked nation that I have history with who isn't RPing provides more than a random new team. All I get out of Oickoidia being in the cup is an a brief mention how they're going to get trounced. Woopity freaking doo.

For what it's worth, and at the risk of being highly heretical, I'm really not sure all this is much of a problem. Clearly, there arn't 32 decent RPing nations, so any swing towards favouring them even further would surely make qualifying redundent as a contest. Doesn't it make it a tad more interesting if even the 'biggest' nations have an element of jeopardy surrounding their qualification?

Though granted I probably wouldn't be saying that if I was still struggling to qualify regularly twelve months down the line...

"Doesn't it make it a tad more interesting if even the 'biggest' nations have an element of jeopardy surrounding their qualification?"

Only if there are good up and coming nations. If there aren't we should just skip qualifiers and go straight to the finals.

It's not possible to make it so that non-RPers don't make the Cup, barring hosts chucking them out and replacing them with the next-highest non-qualifying team who did RP: that's what the Cup of Harmony is for.

Qualifying is about randomness, rank and roleplaying - in varying degrees depending on the scorinator. Clearly, in this cup so far, RP has almost nothing to do with it if Oickoidia and D2R made it with only two sign-up posts between them, while randomness reared its head rarely, but intensely.

There is never, ever, going to be a balance that everyone likes. WC37's qualifying stage has been no different.

and Archregimancy clearly failed to qualify because of their heretical attitude towards the Lord of Scores who smote them from the Cup for their sins against him. <nods wisely>


(From Az-cs post- too lazy to quote the right way)
The number of high ranking teams that qualified isn't relevant to that fact. By and large high ranking teams should be qualifying with the exception of the lower ranking non-RPing ones who should be replaced by decently ranked RPing teams. The fact that there aren't that many good doesn't indicate that the scorinator isn't random enough.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

it almost sounds like your saying you want the results to exactly match up to a strict combination of rank and RP and nothing else.

If that was the case Quakmybush would have taken a much longer time to qualify than he did because while he RPed he was unranked at the start of his first qualifcation. The #1 seed of the group(Praying2god-quit right after the cup in disgust) didn;t qualify despite RPing regularly, i was third seed and didn't get in while RPing regularly. #2 seed (Milchama) won the group handily, missing the first week due to RL if i recall right. So at this point i consider this another blip of lucky random number combinations that seems to occur every few cups.

in fact when i was first starting out, the results that took place here would have resulted in outrage over the fact that 23/24 of the top seeds folk did advance much moreso than the one lowbie getting through.

as for the middle of the pack results, don;t forget also that the KPB points are more of a factor that the actual rank. 20KPB points separate 28th Rejistania from 151st rank Niorthemme. Those same 20 points would only move Rej to 8th spot. So the teams are much closer together than they look from rank alone which means results between those teams will indeed appear more of an upset than they are when the numbers get plugged in.

it almost sounds like your saying you want the results to exactly match up to a strict combination of rank and RP and nothing else.

No what I'm saying is that I think it should mostly come down to that. There of course should be randomness, especially amongst teams who are nearly equal in terms of rank & rp. But I do think it should be limited. Clearly there has to be a random factor, I just don't think it should be that big.

No what I'm saying is that I think it should mostly come down to that. There of course should be randomness, especially amongst teams who are nearly equal in terms of rank & rp. But I do think it should be limited. Clearly there has to be a random factor, I just don't think it should be that big.

And they say i complain too much....

Face it Az-cz, IT'S NEVER GONNA BE PERFECT!

Besides thanks to the randomness of it, you and most of the "teams" that started after I did have had an easier time qualifing from scratch than I did. Now that the shoe is on the other foot (iffin' gnomes do wear shoes) you've become almost an elitist now.

Team X should have no chance to qualify because they didn't RP... I tried saying that over a yea ago when I was consistantly losing to teams that don't RP, costing me a qualification spot or 4. Count your blessings that so far you haven't missed the Cup due to the randomness of losing to a team that you "should" have beaten.

Besides in RL (i know we hate RL comparisions) theoretically, EVERY TEAM has a chance to qualify for the Cup, and in here, it should be true as well.

I got a difficult group this time... against the defending champions and Schiavonia.

(Az-cz, you said that I didn't win the CoH after WC35 in your RP, but the fact is that I did - check my signature - just a minor correction)

hmm based on the draw this could be the Karma cup for tynelia. First we have Az-cz who swepted us as a lower ranked squad when we played them in the Cup. Then we could run into Erri...who swept us as a lower ranked team in the CoH when we played them. Now... I AM THE LOWER RANKED TEAM! <breathes Darth Vader-ly>

i think i have to root for Jeruselem though against Qazox. Jeruselem was nice enough to lose when they were supposed to a couple Cups ago to open the door for us on the last day. Qazox however messed everything up by beating us that same day to keep us from bumping Jeruselem out. Besides, Qazox is our class of 27 archnemesis whom we must get to the second round before to avenge their qualifying before we did.

Qualifying is about randomness, rank and roleplaying - in varying degrees depending on the scorinator. Clearly, in this cup so far, RP has almost nothing to do with it if Oickoidia and D2R made it with only two sign-up posts between them, while randomness reared its head rarely, but intensely.

There is never, ever, going to be a balance that everyone likes. WC37's qualifying stage has been no different.

In relation to this, without divulging the details of the scorination (which I believe does treat RPing fairly- very much so - when factored into a team's rank), I'd like to point out that ultimately, the question here isn't how RPing is factored in, but rather the question of the level of randomness. That is, it is possible to have RP bonuses and randomness both count on the higher side of things, and have results not go in the favor of the RPers. When RP directly modifies your starting KPB (as it does in most scorinators), you're going to have cups where an RPer might get left out, due to the random element; conversely, you'll have cups where non-RPing teams can make it in, even with a low rank (especially if the random element makes it possible). All you can do with RPing is improve your odds of obtaining a favorable random number, compared to the odds without RPing.

I just hope that this is kept in mind by those arguing over the fact that random chance happened to choose those they thought were "less worthy". That's what randomness does; that is, it doesn't care a lick about either team's "worthiness", but rather picks a number out of a hat, which is used to calculate the result. You take your chances, and get what you get.

its was Mcphyscoville not MIlchama, IIRC Mil didnt qualify, and we hard about it.

Cup of Harmony Host Vote:

Options where...

a. Approve Q-Topia
b. Approve Q-Topia with some modifications
c. Re-open the bidding process.

with 7 votes casted..... Q-Topia has been approved unanimously! Congratulations!

To all the people complaining that the scores are too random...


there's always next time.

When is the CoH?

When is the CoH?

A few days after the CoH thread goes up (with invitees registering their attendence) the hosts will actually start the Comp

Good one Az-cz!

A.S.S.H.A.T

The name of the group is -SSHAT, thank you very much. :p

I would like to highlight how the “random” factor has affected qualifying by looking at the match results for The Archregimancy. I will, at the outset, express my bias – I am disappointed that the Monks, probably my favourite RPers currently, didn’t make it to the Cup Proper.

A “major upset” is, I must admit, a subjective thing but I think there are matches where most would agree that a “major upset” has occurred. A top team such as The Archregimancy might expect one or two such matches during qualifying.

Matchday 1
Archregimancy 0 v Integrite 0
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Intregrite ranked 7
Archregimancy at home
Archregimancy posted roster and RP’d, Integrite had not
Conclusion: major upset

Matchday 2
Nebuleux 0 v Archregimancy 5
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Nebuleux ranked 8
Nebuleux at home
Archregimancy posted roster and RP’d, Nebuleux had not
Conclusion: expected result

Matchday 3
Archregimancy 2 v Dance 2 Revolution 2
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Dance 2 Revolution ranked 4
Archregimancy at home
Archregimancy posted roster and RP’d, Dance 2 Revolution had not
Conclusion: minor upset (arguably a major upset due to D2R inactivity)

Matchday 4
Delesa 0 v Archregimancy 2
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Delesa 6
Delesa at home
Archregimancy posted roster and RP’d, Delesa posted roster only
Conclusion: expected result (arguably a minor upset in that the margin should have been greater)

Matchday 5
Errinundera 3 v The Archregimancy 3
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Errinundera 1
Errinundera at home
Both teams posted rosters and RP’d
Conclusion: minor upset in The Archregimancy’s favour

Matchday 6
Archregimancy 1 v Quakmybush 1
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Quakmybush 3
Archregimancy at home
Both teams posted rosters, only Archregimancy had RP’d
Conclusion: minor upset

Matchday 7
Jeru FC 2 v Archregimancy 1
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Jeru FC 5
Jeru FC at home
Both teams posted rosters, Archregimancy regular RPs, Jeru FC twice in entire campaign
Conclusion: major upset

Matchday 8
Integrite 1 v Archregimancy 1
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Intregrite ranked 7
Integrite at home
Archregimancy posted roster and RP’d, Integrite inactive
Conclusion: major upset (especially given Integrite’s complete inactivity)

Matchday 9
Archregimancy 4 v Nebuleux 1
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Nebuleux ranked 8
Archregimancy at home
Archregimancy posted roster and RP’d, Nebuleux inactive
Conclusion: expected result

The Archregimancy’s RP for this match was their last during qualifying

Matchday 10
Dance 2 Revolution 2 v Archregimancy 2
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Dance 2 Revolution ranked 4
Dance 2 Revolution at home
Archregimancy posted roster and RP’d, Dance 2 Revolution inactive
Conclusion: minor upset (arguably a major upset due to D2R inactivity)

Matchday 11
Archregimancy 3 v Delesa 1
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Delesa 6
Archregimancy at home
Archregimancy posted roster and RP’d, Delesa posted roster only
Conclusion: expected result

Matchday 12
Archregimancy 3 Errinundera 3
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Errinundera 1
Archregimancy at home
Both teams posted rosters and RP’d
Conclusion: expected result for a home match (arguably a minor upset in The Archregimancy’s favour)

Matchday 13
Quakmybush 1 v Archregimancy 0
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Quakmybush 3
Quakmybush at home
Both teams posted rosters, Archregimancy 9 RPs, Quakmybush 3 RPs
Conclusion: minor upset (arguably an expected result but for Q’s inactivity)

Matchday 14
Archregimancy 0 v Jeru FC 2
Archregimancy ranked 2 in group, Jeru FC 5
Archregimancy at home
Both teams posted rosters, Archregimancy regular RPs, Jeru FC twice in entire campaign
Conclusion: major upset

Overall
4 major upsets to the detriment of The Archregimancy
4 minor upsets to the detriment of The Archregimancy
5 expected results
1 minor upset to advantage of The Archregimancy

During qualifying the 6 teams in the group other than The Archregimancy and Errinundera RP’d a total of 5 games between them (from 84 possible plus pre qualifying). The Monks and the Potoroos RP’d 23 times in the same period (out of a possible 28 plus pre-qualifying).

Emphasizing randomness in the scorinator is all very well. In 8 games for The Archregimancy randomness counted against them more than ranking, RPing and posting a roster combined. In four of those matches it counted for more than ranking, RPing, posting a roster AND home ground advantage. Even with a high random factor built in, over a long qualifying period one would expect upsets to balance out. In The Archregimancy’s case it ran 8-1 against them.

How much bad luck can a team have?

The bottom line is that no-one put up a counter bid to the Novapsolu / Ad'ihan bid so we are all responsible for the results and, apart from the scorinator, this Cup has been run well.

Well I'm glad Jeru FC didn't qualify and do a Oickoidia - think of the complaints!

And I'm glad Patusan didn't. I'd look like a hypocrite.

~reminds Errinunderra of the time Spaam finished *last*~

I'll give you the same answer I was given back then: its just bad luck.

I just hope that this is kept in mind by those arguing over the fact that random chance happened to choose those they thought were "less worthy". That's what randomness does; that is, it doesn't care a lick about either team's "worthiness", but rather picks a number out of a hat, which is used to calculate the result. You take your chances, and get what you get.

Novapsolu,

That's of course the case. But it's also why we argue that their ought to be less randomness in the system. I think having a system that by and large puts worthy teams in the cup and keeps unworthy teams out is better than one that does it much more randomly. Look at Errinundera's chart. Only five times did the Archregimancy get the expected result. That means that what should happen simply wasn't happening. It's ok for their to be upsets and suprises, but when that becomes the norm it's a problem.

Going slightly off-topic for a moment (I'll get to your comments in a second, Az):

I came across this article, in which the real world now imitates NS: The Vatican has apparently bought an Italian Football Club (http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/god-squad-buys-club-to-tackle-crisis-in-football-1115342.html). I'll leave the reading to those who wish, but this quote is priceless:

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican's secretary of state, is a fanatical football fan and has openly spoken about his ambition to create a football team of priests.

and to your comments, Az:

What I was saying didn't necessarily pertain to you, as you get it. The comments I made were about teams complaining that the lower-ranked teams beating the odds were both non-RPers, to which I was reminding them that the RP Bonus (again, one I felt was given out fairly this cup), can only affect the odds of victory, and should be considered in proportion to rank, not randomness.

Otherwise, I think we're pretty much in agreement on disagreement, over the level of randomness that should be in matches.

That's the last comment I'll make on the issue (unless someone forces me to say something else) until either the cup is over, or after I've done a more thorough look at the results, rather than just who advanced from which group.

Why don't we just call the Waambulance and then we can all quit complaining? It's frightening to think about the scary amount of energy you've wasted on this already. Go write RPs instead. I don't really care what it's of, but I'm sure it would be more fun to read than this thread.

Going slightly off-topic for a moment (I'll get to your comments in a second, Az):

I came across this article, in which the real world now imitates NS: The Vatican has apparently bought an Italian Football Club (http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/god-squad-buys-club-to-tackle-crisis-in-football-1115342.html). I'll leave the reading to those who wish, but this quote is priceless:

Pfft, NS has already done it... copy cats...

what Cas said, it's a game within a game, and you guys take it a bit to seriously.

Why don't we just call the Waambulance and then we can all quit complaining? It's frightening to think about the scary amount of energy you've wasted on this already. Go write RPs instead. I don't really care what it's of, but I'm sure it would be more fun to read than this thread.


The really funny thing is that, for all the time and energy being expended on my behalf, I'm on record as being satisfied with the scorination process (following Novapsolu's posting of statistics on how many seeded teams qualified).

Please, if you're outraged on my behalf, just let it rest and move on. I have a Cup of Harmony to prepare for (assuming I'm invited).

Though I will add genuine thanks to Erri for the kind words of praise over my RP'ing.

It's not a question of complaints or outrage. It's a question of making the experience more fun. And I do think that once a certain base level of randomness has been fulfilled extra randomness detracts from the cup. In the end it will still all be on the shoulders of the hosts but it's still worthwhile to talk about so we can move in the right direction.

It's not a question of complaints or outrage. It's a question of making the experience more fun. And I do think that once a certain base level of randomness has been fulfilled extra randomness detracts from the cup. In the end it will still all be on the shoulders of the hosts but it's still worthwhile to talk about so we can move in the right direction.
And yet, we've shown that this cup, if anything, wasn't random enough. Your argument doesn't stand.

RP should never, never, never be for the purpose of getting better results. The only, only, only reason for the RP bonus is to encourage RP. Nothing else.

It's not a question of complaints or outrage. It's a question of making the experience more fun. And I do think that once a certain base level of randomness has been fulfilled extra randomness detracts from the cup. In the end it will still all be on the shoulders of the hosts but it's still worthwhile to talk about so we can move in the right direction.
Having the teams that RP the most win most of their qualifying games every time does not make the experience more fun.

I don't have anything to say that Casari and the Archregimancy haven't already said, but I do have numbers to wave around imposingly. Therefore in the interests of not being annoying I have shrunk and hidden my actual content.
As I see it, the logical flaw with Az-cz and Errinundera's defenses of the Archregimancy is that it's just one team. Let's say a first seed and good RPer "should" qualify 19 times out of 20-that is, 95% of the time. (Feel free to make up your own numbers, I just pulled these off the top of my head. The results will vary accordingly.) And let's say a scorinator could be programmed to ensure that that is the precise odds that that will happen, and that there are ten such teams. The odds that all ten of those teams will go through are (.95)^10, or just under 60%.
If ten second seeds each have a 90% probability of going through, the odds that they'll all make it are a tad under 35%. The odds that exactly nine would make it are higher: 39%.
If everything went according to "averages", we'd have scores like 2.54-1.03. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13067213&postcount=244)

Thanks for the link, by the way, Novapsolu-great read. Edit: Everybody catch the name of that club's president? Suspicious enough for you?

:P

I think we need to get over losing; we can't always win. Eventually, the Italians are going to have to concede the title (in two,three years hopefully, dammmmmmmit).

That said, sometimes even peewee teams can impress older, more experienced teams. Last night, Toronto beat New York, ending their continuing 12 game losing streak. And while New York isn't the best team in the MLS (yes, I watch MLS...), they certainly should have lost the match if we're playing the seeds game; Toronto is the last placed team in the league (well not anymore...), and New York is in contention for the MLS Playoffs. Ya see?

Edit: Everybody catch the name of that club's president? Suspicious enough for you?

:P

Schiavoni??

I never knew Schiavonia was that rich!!

I need a few bucks....

lol

And yet, we've shown that this cup, if anything, wasn't random enough. Your argument doesn't stand.

No you haven't. Not random enough would be no or nearly no upsets. That was not nearly the case. There were too many upsets. The fact that almost all the top seeds qualified isn't relevant. The top seeds should almost all qualify.

RP should never, never, never be for the purpose of getting better results. The only, only, only reason for the RP bonus is to encourage RP. Nothing else.

That doesn't make any sense. The RP bonus can't encourage RP without making RP into something done for getting better results. Even if RP is just done to get better results its still a contribution to the game.

Having the teams that RP the most win most of their qualifying games every time does not make the experience more fun.

Why do you think that? Where does the fun of it come from? If it comes from the RPing than having other RPers to interact with is better than having random teams. If the fun of it comes from watching your team progrss than having a way to help your team progress is better. I just don't see any way in which having a lot of non-RPers in the proper makes the game more fun.

How about the fact that the World Cup is taking place in a forum dedicated to Roleplaying as a reason to RP? From what I can tell, RP bonus encourages people to pump out bad RPs. And the unfortunate reality is fun for you does not equal fun for everyone.

Which is why the cups are actually different. If you don't like how it's hosted, bid yourself and host it how you like.

This is what I see as the real crime. To this point, just about 4,400 words have been wasted on this topic. You can write a good RP with that amount of words. But it never got written, because instead we fought.

Bravo to all. Truly great reading.

Ack! Scorinating today? I had somehow gotten it into my head I had another day. Damn. But I tied Az-cz anyway, so I'm just going to go offer up everything I own to Margaret.

Ack! Scorinating today? I had somehow gotten it into my head I had another day. Damn. But I tied Az-cz anyway, so I'm just going to go offer up everything I own to Margaret.

We announced two days ago that MD1 would be brought forward to today.

We announced two days ago that MD1 would be brought forward to today.

Ah, right, paying attention. I should do that some time.

No you haven't. Not random enough would be no or nearly no upsets. That was not nearly the case. There were too many upsets. The fact that almost all the top seeds qualified isn't relevant. The top seeds should almost all qualify.
Wrong.

Lets go back to real life, shall we? By your statement, no more than two nations outside the top 38 (3x12 + 2) should qualify for the World Cup. But wait! There were eight nations outside the top 38 in the RL World Cup. (link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_FIFA_World_Cup_seeding))


That doesn't make any sense. The RP bonus can't encourage RP without making RP into something done for getting better results. Even if RP is just done to get better results its still a contribution to the game.
Wrong.

Sorry, I forget you're new here. Orginally, there was no RP bonus. After a while, RPing by less experienced nations started dropping off a bit, and we decided to introduce a small RP bonus to induce people to RP. It was never ever meant to give nations a true advantage. I made that point in WCXII - that is why we now have the term 'spaaming'. If you feel that performance should be linked directly to RP, then go make your own competition. RPing in the World Cup is purely for the joy of it.


Why do you think that? Where does the fun of it come from? If it comes from the RPing than having other RPers to interact with is better than having random teams. If the fun of it comes from watching your team progrss than having a way to help your team progress is better. I just don't see any way in which having a lot of non-RPers in the proper makes the game more fun.
Wrong.

If you only RP for the bonus, THAT makes it less fun. The fun comes from RPing for the joy of it. Ideally, we would not have an RP bonus AT ALL. This is not a RP competition. This is a bunch of random numbers that simulates the World Cup. Unfortunately, too many nations these days just wouldn't bother if there wasn't an RP bonus. Do you know when the best RPing occurred? BEFORE the RP bonus was introduced. I guess we can't blame you for not knowing that.

No you haven't. Not random enough would be no or nearly no upsets. That was not nearly the case. There were too many upsets. The fact that almost all the top seeds qualified isn't relevant. The top seeds should almost all qualify.
If the top seeds almost all qualify, what’s the point of the qualifiers?

Why do you think that? Where does the fun of it come from? If it comes from the RPing than having other RPers to interact with is better than having random teams. If the fun of it comes from watching your team progrss than having a way to help your team progress is better. I just don't see any way in which having a lot of non-RPers in the proper makes the game more fun.
Much of the fun comes from having upsets (or even occasional odd results that aren’t upsets, like my 7–3 win over Squornshelous in the qualifiers or Krytenia’s 8–1 win over SLANI in WC32) and finding creative ways to explain those upsets. Writing a stock report about beating N00bstan by six goals for the fourth time, just for the sake of being an active RPer, seems to be strongly encouraged, but I have no interest in writing such a report and I’m sure most people would have no interest in reading it. RP bonus seems to pressure people towards writing formulaic RPs daily rather than writing a few interesting posts over the course of the Cup, leading to the eternally annoying and pointless question on IRC, “when’s the cutoff?”

I don’t think there was anything wrong with the amount or quality of posts before the bonus was introduced, nor with the number of RPers that qualified for the World Cup at that time (that number would probably be a bit higher now because of the CoH), and I think that all of this debate is merely a solution in search of a problem.

When Bedi, LE and I won WC24-WC30 (excepting WC29's Casari) and finished in the top three for god-knows how many consecutive cups, they said it wasn't random enough. Never mind that I RP'd my ass off, Bedi kinda did and LE generally didn't at all.

Then Arry wins and 'wayhey, the WC has rewarded a long-time dedicated RPer, well done fate!' Then he and Bettia win twice each and out comes the 'oh, isn't it a little bit lacking in randonmess?'.

Oickiwhatever qualifies, the Archreg doesn't and once again it's too random!

At least the complaints are consistent.

For what it's worth, I informed British Londinium a couple of days ago that Oickoidia qualified. He apologised and said he'd try to RP them. So, end of bitching. Here. Now.

EDIT:

On to more VALID WCDT talk:

CoH hosts, are you guys gonna be starting soon? Won't exactly be nice to have the WC finished and the second-tier (;)) tournament still be ongoing. :p

KRYTENIA have returned!!!!

(Please sign us up for BoF if applicable, if not then just WC38 please!)

You've already had one, bugger off :p

You've already had one, bugger off :p

WC38 will be interesting ... everyone is back!

Nedalia looks going MIA though.

I was just about to say, who's left to come back? :p

great... more competition :p

You've already had one, bugger off :p

I'd just like to make a statement that I may be willing to include him, albeit as a backup.

I'd just like to make a statement that I may be willing to include him, albeit as a backup.

I cannot support any BoF host who would give a nation who's already had a BoF a second BoF.

I don't understand why a nation that's never had one can get one but one that has had one can't. Both are starting over.