NationStates Jolt Archive

An off-topic question here:

Is the World Assembly thing for real? or a prolonged April Fools joke??

Read http://69.60.14.82/page=news/2008/04/02/index.html#aprilfoolsnoprank

Here's the real April Fool's Joke.

IT'S STILL APRIL 1ST!(somewhere...)

Just had my grandmother's funeral today.
Wasn't too bad a day actually.

We even got a real Buddhist monk in.

Originally Posted by Vephrall
Actually this is all giving me a RP theme, which I often have difficulty coming up with. Now the problem is actually finding the time to do it...

join the club...

Here, here! That's why I generally end up doing quick match reports except for anything pre-Cup (like my group preview) and my mid-qualifying awards, both of which I take extra time to write out.

Reg,

Check your TGs.

If anyone has ever wanted to do a "how to cure vampirism" RP, now would be the time to step forward; I could use your help.

Speaking of how much advantage playing at home actually gives you I'm pretty sure I saw a report or study or something recently which seemed to suggest teams actually did better away than at home (or at least not as well as would be expected) due to pressure and expectation at home. Can't remember which sport or league it was though so I can't actually say anything else about

Premier League 2007-8 so far: 320 games, 152 home wins, 84 away wins, 84 draws.

Home advantage is pretty significant but by no means insurmountable.

Although I suppose that the first home game ever would be an advantage due to atmosphere, excitement etc, certainly a real life example would be Reading's first game in the Premiership last season, two nil down and suddenly the crowd woke up and we went on to win three two. But there is a flipside to that, at home the fans and even players will be more expectant, (especially for a team whose won two of it first tournaments) and therefore the pressure on the players would be higher than at an away game and therefore more likely for them to underperform.

It's more likely to be an 'interesting' result perhaps. I'd say, win lose or draw, you've got a great RPing opportunity to say your team (thrived/choked) under the pressure. I'd have just RPed IC frustration without going OOC, although the fact Newmanistan is RPing well for no real reward has to hurt.

At least he's not RPing well for no real reward from a top-32 place, though. That is bad. And leads onto...

Too much randomness? I've scored five goals in four games in a row, I'd say it's all a bit all the same for me at the minute. Mind you if the other team only scores a maximum of four goals a game I won't complain. :p

Hah. Personally I think it's not quite working out, but perhaps the biggest problem is with only ten games in qualifying each 'freak' result is going to count for a heck of a lot more than in a bigger qualification group.

for what its worth, i think Tynelia has had better road records than home records in pretty much every cup to date.

I pretty mutch suck either way so it doesn't really matter wether its home or not.
But it kinda does cause of how many seats are in the average stadium somewhere between 200,000 and 700,000. But also this could be just because we rock at this make believe thing.

Prazkoy is losing; Han is winning?

Erm, yeah. The scorinator is working.

Also, I think we should all remember that there's a whole other half of qualification that needs to be considered before criticizing the scorinator for its merits (not that I wouldn't discourage pre-criticisms...). So wait until the last match to criticize it completely for its merits.

Also, if you need anti-vampire experts, the Han Empire sports a whole variety of folk who are immune to vampires (mostly, because we eat too much garlic and have a lust for silver). Unfortunately, cures are not our specialty.

AND BIG GAMES COMING UP:

Daehanjeiguk --- Casari
Cafundeu --- Quakmybush
Capitalizt SLANI --- Sorthern Northland
Zwangzug --- Adihan (just because Adihan needs ONE point...)

If anyone has ever wanted to do a "how to cure vampirism" RP, now would be the time to step forward; I could use your help.

Feel free to mention our girls ... :p

Also, I think we should all remember that there's a whole other half of qualification that needs to be considered before criticizing the scorinator for its merits (not that I wouldn't discourage pre-criticisms...). So wait until the last match to criticize it completely for its merits.

Considering I wrote the scorinator, at this point I feel perfectly justified in saying that I should never write another line of code again.

Everyone loves random numbers! Although I might change my opinion if I ever tried to sit down and calculate E[wins]...

Premier League 2007-8 so far: 320 games, 152 home wins, 84 away wins, 84 draws.

Home advantage is pretty significant but by no means insurmountable.
What are those out of? Percentage-wise I mean. 152 wins out of 304 is worse than 84 out of 100.

Ya know, some good came out of that yesterday. Taking the day off from doing anything was a good little "relax" lesson. This has all been pretty non-stop for me with the DBC, BOF, and now this all back to back right after the other, and with us going to the very end in the first two it was pretty non-stop.

Maybe fatigue is why we choked against Lithima.... or I'll make it be why. ;)

Anyway we're back and recharged.

What are those out of? Percentage-wise I mean. 152 wins out of 304 is worse than 84 out of 100.

Out of 320, if you look closer.

Which makes the percentages 47.5% home wins, 26.25% away wins, 26.25% draws.

What are those out of? Percentage-wise I mean. 152 wins out of 304 is worse than 84 out of 100.
…? There was a home team and an away team in each game, so the home team won 152 out of 320 times (47.5%), the away team 84 out of 320 times (26.25%), and a draw 84 out of 320 times (26.25%).

…? There was a home team and an away team in each game, so the home team won 152 out of 320 times (47.5%), the away team 84 out of 320 times (26.25%), and a draw 84 out of 320 times (26.25%).
Still bad statistics. It would be best to take individual team records and compare their home wins vs. away wins. Also, I'm sure some teams might be better away than at home.

Everyone loves random numbers! Although I might change my opinion if I ever tried to sit down and calculate E[wins]...

I entirely agree. This whole thing would suck ass (in my opinion) if it wasn't as deliciously random as it always is (every time). If I want to be graded on my writing skills, I'll stay in college for four more years. Ick, that sounds terrible. In any case, randomness = fine with me. Though, like you say Dancougar, I might change my mind if I was Vephrall. On the bright side, we're all rooting for you, mate!

Anyway, ticky tack question for Kry or Star... have been given an RP bonus for having a roster? I assume I have since I've been doing OK, but there's no link to my roster post in the first posts of the RP or Scores thread, so I'm just wondering out of idle curiousity.

Time for a cigarette and a non-non-alcoholic beverage to take the edge off. Ah, Thursday evenings.

Oh, and thanks Jeru and Han. Seriously, if you have anything specific to suggest, TG me. I've kind of deliberately dug myself an RP hole here for the sake of seeing if I can get out of it.

for what its worth, i think Tynelia has had better road records than home records in pretty much every cup to date.

Until recently, so did I now i'm about even, 1 draw and one loss away and at home, rest are wins is my average the last 5 cups.

Though, like you say Dancougar, I might change my mind if I was Vephrall. On the bright side, we're all rooting for you, mate!

Eh, maybe this is just Margaret getting back at me for winning four of these things with a previous nation. :p

And the blue-green juggernaut did vanish from the world, only to return in a new disguise. And yea, though he hosted but his third cup after returning, Margaret was displeased by his departure from the path. And so, in Her fortieth round, Margaret did see fit to test his patience, though he now be white and gold.
- Margaret 40:23-26

@ Pazhujeb - Don't worry. Digging RP holes can be loads of fun! I'll send an exorcist...

@ Sel Appa - the statistics are right in front of you.

@ Vephrall - I simply find it ironic that the scorinator you created is backfiring against you and Adihan. You must have had a relationship with Adihan at some time in the past that's carried a bit of your "bad juju" to him.

@ myself - I forgot what I was going to write about. Maybe it's that bottle of soju I just drank... anyway. Happy 4th of April!!!

Prux is unbeaten and ahead of Wentland? Margaret be praised and to be sure... we sacrifice those robotic ducks from the last CoH.

Prux is unbeaten and ahead of Wentland? Margaret be praised and to be sure... we sacrifice those robotic ducks from the last CoH.

You do know that THAT is the best way to bring ********'* wrath upon you right?

Group 8 - and only moi has a roster! Unlike Group 15 where all teams have one.

methinks the Archregimancy is going to have a difficult time explaining how they sent a team of monks into a country full of vampires...

methinks the Archregimancy is going to have a difficult time explaining how they sent a team of monks into a country full of vampires...

Aren't all the Archregimancy's team in this tournament "Dream Simulcra legends"?

Aren't all the Archregimancy's team in this tournament "Dream Simulcra legends"?

I thought that was the Holy Empire? EDIT - I've just checked and the Monks are in the Cup; the Holy Empire has the legends dreamy thingy.

Another blurb of random news:

Skype allows you to dial this number: 0 0 4 3 10 -7 0. Ten thousand points to whomever can guess where I found it.

methinks the Archregimancy is going to have a difficult time explaining how they sent a team of monks into a country full of vampires...

Exorcism :-D I'd say they're qualified.

Skype allows you to dial this number: 0 0 4 3 10 -7 0. Ten thousand points to whomever can guess where I found it.

My record? No wait, I've only scored two goals, not three. :p

@ Vephrall - I simply find it ironic that the scorinator you created is backfiring against you and Adihan. You must have had a relationship with Adihan at some time in the past that's carried a bit of your "bad juju" to him.

Well...after Liverpool England defeated Bedistan in the final of World Cup 8, they did become mortal enemies for the remainder of their respective participations...

NICKNAME FOR HOPEFUL SC NATIONAL TEAM SOUGHT, INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TURNED TO FOR HELP

In another interesting announcement, the Hopeful SC Soccer Association announced that they are accepting suggestions for the nickname for the Hopeful SC National Soccer team. Other nations are invited to send their suggestions to the Hopeful SC Soccer Association.

How's about "Hopeful Geeks"?

"Hopeful Greeks"?
"Hopeful Creeks"?
"Hopeful Creeps"?
"Hopeful Crickets"?
"Hopeful Brickets"?
"Hopeful Honeybees"?
"Hopeful Jackals"?
"Hopeful Somethingmerbobber"?
"Hopeful Thingamajingy"?
"Hopeful Pandora"?

My personal favorite:

"Hopeful Thugs"?

You folks in Group 8 might take to like this word here:

hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia

EDIT - I'd like to make a note that such a word would be impossible in Chinese or in Korean (more so the latter than the former). The reason being that words are formed by syllabic morphemes; however, in Chinese, it is possible to find monster characters (one word) that are an agonizing 48 strokes (in traditional script).

You folks in Group 8 might take to like this word here:

hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia


Why would they like the fear of long words???

Why would they like the fear of long words???

Not that they'd like the fear, but rather that they'd like the description of the fear.

Also, Prazkoy's RP is taking a lot longer than I anticipated...

@ myself - I forgot what I was going to write about. Maybe it's that bottle of soju I just drank... anyway. Happy 4th of April!!!

dude i hear soju is amazing. my friend in the US army was stationed in South Korea and they drank that.

boring story...
i know...
awwww.

You folks in Group 8 might take to like this word here:

hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia

EDIT - I'd like to make a note that such a word would be impossible in Chinese or in Korean (more so the latter than the former). The reason being that words are formed by syllabic morphemes; however, in Chinese, it is possible to find monster characters (one word) that are an agonizing 48 strokes (in traditional script).

It's odd most teams in my group have longish names except for 1 team.

dude i hear soju is amazing. my friend in the US army was stationed in South Korea and they drank that.

boring story...
i know...
awwww.

erm... way to break the ice...

And no one's yet figured out why I'm mentioning April 4th?

Skype allows you to dial this number: 0 0 4 3 10 -7 0. Ten thousand points to whomever can guess where I found it.

Brutal.

Az-cz is looking for prospective bidding partners for WC41. If anyone is interested please TG me on the nation states page. Almost any nation is welcome if you can do a good job OOC. The IC stuff shouldn't be too hard to work out.

How do you dial negative numbers?

Anyway, ticky tack question for Kry or Star... have been given an RP bonus for having a roster? I assume I have since I've been doing OK, but there's no link to my roster post in the first posts of the RP or Scores thread, so I'm just wondering out of idle curiousity.

Yes, you have, I think I did it for MD2, at least on the RP Bonus calculator. I can't remember precisely though, but you're right, neither of us have updated the roster links there. I'll see if I can find some time to do it today.

Bettia, Squorn,

Friendlies?

Sorry I didn't see this sooner Az, I was away celebrating my wife's birthday. No, really, I was. Anyway, the Aroras are up for a friendly. I believe it's your turn to be the home team, right?

How do you dial negative numbers?

Press all the buttons, lift the handset, then release the button you want?

And no one's yet figured out why I'm mentioning April 4th?1984 reference?

As we celebrate in Zwangzug, Happy Intellectual Freedom Day. :p

Eh, maybe this is just Margaret getting back at me for winning four of these things with a previous nation. :p

And the blue-green juggernaut did vanish from the world, only to return in a new disguise. And yea, though he hosted but his third cup after returning, Margaret was displeased by his departure from the path. And so, in Her fortieth round, Margaret did see fit to test his patience, though he now be white and gold.
- Margaret 40:23-26

Join the New Othydoxic Christian Church of Reborn Othydoxy and perhaps the Prophetess Margaret of the holiest Lord of Scores shall forgive you. <nods helpfully>

Eh, maybe this is just Margaret getting back at me for winning four of these things with a previous nation. :p

And the blue-green juggernaut did vanish from the world, only to return in a new disguise. And yea, though he hosted but his third cup after returning, Margaret was displeased by his departure from the path. And so, in Her fortieth round, Margaret did see fit to test his patience, though he now be white and gold.
- Margaret 40:23-26

And they doth kicked their enemies in the testicles, and saw fit to upend the weaker from their feet, and were smiled upon?

Here is a list of the friendlies I have marked down for the mid-qualifying break. They are 'split', as before, into three 'separate' Matchdays. If there are any errors or or ones I've missed, please send me a TG.

Matchday D
Qazox v Krytenia N
Bazalonia v The Archregimancy
Valanora v Ad’ihan
Taeshan v Daehanjeiguk N (Dancougar)
The Pahujeb Islands V The Holy Empire
Nethertopia V Acapais
Rennidan Versus Kereca

Matchday E
Az-cz v Bettia
Candelaria and Marquez v Vephrall
Kytenia v Starblaydia
Valanora v The Holy Empire
Yafor 2 Vs Kose and The Turkomans
Casari Vs The Archregimancy
Hopeful SC V Hopeless SC

Matchday F
The Archregimancy v Starblaydia
Demot v Krytenia
Vephrall v Cafundeu
Yafor 2 vs Yafalonia & Bazor 2
Kose and The Turkomans v Dancougar
Starblaydia v Az-cz

Taeshan v Daehanjeiguk

So is this neutral in Dancougar, or did that get scrapped?

Kose and The Turkomans v Dancougar

Kose: While I'm quite happy to oblige, please let me know next time before you go ahead and set up a game ^_^

So is this neutral in Dancougar, or did that get scrapped?

As Taeshan doesn't appear capable of sending a TG, I gleaned that off his post in here, iirc. Neutrality added.

I dont remember asking for it, or TGing Star, but if you have no objections I'm game

Kose and The Turkomans v Dancougar

Kose: While I'm quite happy to oblige, please let me know next time before you go ahead and set up a game ^_^

I dont remember asking for it, or TGing Star, but if you have no objections I'm game

So why in the hell did I have KOS v DAN written down? I may be going fairly insane.

So why in the hell did I have KOS v DAN written down? I may be going fairly insane.

I didn't see that coming! Sorry for jumping to conclusions there.

So why in the hell did I have KOS v DAN written down? I may be going fairly insane.

KOS could be Kosovoe, perhaps.

Though what DAN could be other than Dancougar I haven't the foggiest. Could be a rarely-used form of D2R, but I doubt it...

KOS could be Kosovoe, perhaps.

Though what DAN could be other than Dancougar I haven't the foggiest. Could be a rarely-used form of D2R, but I doubt it...

Yeah, they mentioned Kosovoe and Pratzkoy also playing a neutral friendly, but how Pratzkoy turns into DAN is beyond me. Unless there's a Caesar Cipher involved, or something.

@ Sel Appa - the statistics are right in front of you.
No. It's all matches from all teams.

Prux is unbeaten and ahead of Wentland? Margaret be praised and to be sure... we sacrifice those robotic ducks from the last CoH.
Sel Appa refuses to recognize any entity known as Margaret.

1984 reference?

As we celebrate in Zwangzug, Happy Intellectual Freedom Day. :p

People forget so soon *sigh*


April 4th is 4/4/08.


If you're tetraphobic, it's equally disturbing because it's the one day that death comes knocking twice. Now, imagine this scene 4 years ago...

erm... way to break the ice...

And no one's yet figured out why I'm mentioning April 4th?

MLK= 40 years.. RIP MLK.

Vephrall 6-0 Lethislavania

*shakes head*

Margaret can be so fickle sometimes.

Any takers on explaining what Naboombu Umbongo has done for Kry or Star to explain them being six points ahead of their whole group have way through without posting an RP?

And is there any truth to the rumours that Kry picked the passion fruit, and Star the mandarin?

I think we ought to be told.

Any takers on explaining what Naboombu Umbongo has done for Kry or Star to explain them being six points ahead of their whole group have way through without posting an RP?

They must have the magical KPB point total that seeds all the good random numbers ^_^

I think the biggest mystery is how do D2R have a 100% record?

Or That Prux is in a qualifying spot, technically. and so is Eightgrederistan, which i created only for the BoF, and wasn't planning to RP w/ at all during the WC.

Hey Star, I believe Rennidan and I had a match scheduled, no?

Apologies for the recent lack of Dreamed Realm team RPs.

Real life has intervened at an awkward time.

I'll see what I can do over the next couple of days, but no promises.

Apologies for the recent lack of Dreamed Realm team RPs.

Real life has intervened at an awkward time.

I'll see what I can do over the next couple of days, but no promises.

No rush, mate... at least until after MD7... :D. JK, hope everything's all right.

I think the biggest mystery is how do D2R have a 100% record?

I can't say my group are full of active RPers either, apart from moi. The others haven't even bothered post a roster either.

Any takers on explaining what Naboombu Umbongo has done for Kry or Star to explain them being six points ahead of their whole group have way through without posting an RP?

Even better question. How is a nation that doesn't even exist get six points up on my group. :mad: I just went and looked them up, and they could not be found.

Are the hosts doing a mid-qualifying check for anybody that may have ceased? If so, what action will be taken against that/those team(s) during the second half of qualifying?

Even better question. How is a nation that doesn't even exist get six points up on my group. :mad: I just went and looked them up, and they could not be found.

Are the hosts doing a mid-qualifying check for anybody that may have ceased? If so, what action will be taken against that/those team(s) during the second half of qualifying?

Presumably nothing and then applying the -80 point rule at the end for ceasing. This is usually because there's no guarantee the person won't revive his or her nation before the end of qualifying.

QAZOX'S World Cup Proposal:


If any nation(s) cease/s to exist during either the World Cup or World Cup qualifers, then a -40 point penalty shall be imposed automatically upon the offending nation(s), after either WC Hosts confirmation that that/those nation(s) ceased to exist. If that nation is still non-existant at the end of the World Cup or World Cup qualifing, then an additional -40 point penalty shall be imposed.

However, if a nation is re-founded (comes back) that was previously declared "ceased", then only the first penalty shall apply.

The Hosts are to check for nation activity after half of the qualifying matches have been completed and also after the first round and quarter-finals of the World Cup. If a nation ceases to exist after they have been eliminated from either qualifying for the World Cup, or the Cup itself, then no penalty shall be applied.

QAZOX'S World Cup Proposal:


IF any nation ceases to exist during either the World Cup or World Cup qualifers, then a -40 point penalty shall be imposed automatically upon either WC Hosts confirming that a nation ceased to exist. If that nation is still non-existant at the end of the World Cup or World Cup qualifing, then an additional -40 point penalty shall be imposed. However, if a nation is re-founded (comes back) that was previously declared "ceased", then only the first penalty shall apply.

The only way that could be fair is if the hosts checked them all after every matchday. And trust me, that's a lot more work than it sounds like.

On an unrelated topic, it's nearly time to start voting for Cup of Harmony hosts. I'd like to get that started within the next 24 hours, but as I am a candidate I'll need a neutral vote collector.

QAZOX'S World Cup Proposal:


IF any nation ceases to exist during either the World Cup or World Cup qualifers, then a -40 point penalty shall be imposed automatically upon either WC Hosts confirming that a nation ceased to exist. If that nation is still non-existant at the end of the World Cup or World Cup qualifing, then an additional -40 point penalty shall be imposed. However, if a nation is re-founded (comes back) that was previously declared "ceased", then only the first penalty shall apply.
Wait, so the hosts should get penalized for something they cannot possibly control?

On an unrelated topic, it's nearly time to start voting for Cup of Harmony hosts. I'd like to get that started within the next 24 hours, but as I am a candidate I'll need a neutral vote collector.
I'd do it, but I have no confidence in myself to do it without messing up somehow. I'll offer myself though. I have TG, M

Wait, so the hosts should get penalized for something they cannot possibly control?

Not the Hosts, (though that is what is implied) the nations that ceased.

The only way that could be fair is if the hosts checked them all after every matchday. And trust me, that's a lot more work than it sounds like.

Will re-write it.

Sets too many precedents. What about those who RP but bypass NS to come to Jolt straight? I don't support people who do that but it does seem to unfairly penalise them.

Sticking to an 80 point penalty at the end of qualifying seems fair, since ultimately that -80 points would still mean they can't qualify.

On an unrelated topic, it's nearly time to start voting for Cup of Harmony hosts. I'd like to get that started within the next 24 hours, but as I am a candidate I'll need a neutral vote collector.

I'm not a candidate (iirc), so I'll happily be the neutral vote collector.

Hey Star, I believe Rennidan and I had a match scheduled, no?

Hmm, that will be fixed when I get on a computer with NSFS and the correct resume.xml file on it.

Even better question. How is a nation that doesn't even exist get six points up on my group. :mad: I just went and looked them up, and they could not be found.

Are the hosts doing a mid-qualifying check for anybody that may have ceased? If so, what action will be taken against that/those team(s) during the second half of qualifying?

It must be a tragic tale involving the greatest footballers the world has ever seen, a government in anarchy, and a soft drink that faded from existence.

Mid-qualifying checks - or any other checks after the initial Pre-Draw and/or Pre-Sign-up-Thread-Closing check - have not been done in 40 cups, afaik. People outraged about certain teams, or in he same region, usually pick up on nations who CTE during the qualifiers for us.

Namboombu Umbongo seems to be a special brand of lucky bastard, and there are two (three technically) ways of dealing with it. 1) Ignore it, 2) Drop them enough points to not-qualify (traditionally -80) or just generally exclude them from progression, 3) Expunge all their results against the other teams and make a new group table based on that.

From an IC perspective I've always been inclined to let the hardy band of footballers play on, despite them not having a home country in existance for them to play for any more. They play for respect and the love of the game, etc. Though this case is different in that they've been very, very lucky without doing anything other than signing up and posting a roster or two in the BoF and WC (link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13403226&postcount=39)). My choice would simply be exclude them from qualification at the end, but that is open to debate.

Hey Star, I believe Rennidan and I had a match scheduled, no?

Hmm, that will be fixed when I get on a computer with NSFS and the correct resume.xml file on it.

Rennidan 0-1 Kereca

This score has also been edited into Matchday E, making it the twenty-first mid-quals friendly - quite a few, eh?

Seriously, what is it with my team and losing 1-0?

Seriously, what is it with my team and losing 1-0?
Margaret likes to play with people's heads. Next question.

Shouldn't Casari, as Vice-President, collect votes? Or is he bidding too?

My personal opinions on ceased nations, disclaiming that they're only that:

Ideally, everyone that signed up would actively participate*. In practice, however, this is not the case. Several nations have not posted rosters or RPed at all-some will cease to exist, some will not. I don't think a nation that doesn't participate should have any more bonus than one that can't. This would mean no 80 point penalty, no record expungement, nothing. It would certainly be disappointing to a participating nation that finished under them, I understand. However, I don't see why it should be more disappointing than finishing below someone equally lacking on the RP front, whose nation still exists. And I don't see why there should be any difference in the records. Just me though.

*deliberate exceptions for humor along the lines of "The non-RPing n00b" aside.

Margaret likes to play with people's heads. Next question.

What's the capital of San Seriffe?

It must be a tragic tale involving the greatest footballers the world has ever seen, a government in anarchy, and a soft drink that faded from existence.

Mid-qualifying checks - or any other checks after the initial Pre-Draw and/or Pre-Sign-up-Thread-Closing check - have not been done in 40 cups, afaik. People outraged about certain teams, or in he same region, usually pick up on nations who CTE during the qualifiers for us.

Namboombu Umbongo seems to be a special brand of lucky bastard, and there are two (three technically) ways of dealing with it. 1) Ignore it, 2) Drop them enough points to not-qualify (traditionally -80) or just generally exclude them from progression, 3) Expunge all their results against the other teams and make a new group table based on that.

From an IC perspective I've always been inclined to let the hardy band of footballers play on, despite them not having a home country in existance for them to play for any more. They play for respect and the love of the game, etc. Though this case is different in that they've been very, very lucky without doing anything other than signing up and posting a roster or two in the BoF and WC (link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13403226&postcount=39)). My choice would simply be exclude them from qualification at the end, but that is open to debate.

In case the owners of Namboombu Umbongo do not show up, we will summarily "buy" the team and "persuade" the players to come to us.

As to the usual results of a non-active participant, the standing precedents are good enough for me, because usually non-RPing n00bs don't get very far (of course, if you've read my randomness plague lecture, you'll realize that randomness is quite common, especially now that we've gotten more non-RPing n00bs).

And not that it adds anything to any discussion, I'm pregnant!

Not the Hosts, (though that is what is implied) the nations that ceased.
Ah. It sounded like you wanted to penalize the hosts.

It must be a tragic tale involving the greatest footballers the world has ever seen, a government in anarchy, and a soft drink that faded from existence.
There is nothing to indicate that they are in anarchy. The fact that their OOC connection is lost does not automatically mean their government spontaneously went poof. Just because communication is gone doesn't mean something doesn't exist. Basic psychology says how most of us learn that not visible does not equate to non-existent. Therefore, I support letting it continue as normal with no penalties whatsoever. I know if my nation ceased, I would want it to stay in the tournament and not be forced out by some obscure rule that discriminates against me.

What's the capital of San Seriffe?

Bodoni.

Shouldn't Casari, as Vice-President, collect votes? Or is he bidding too?

In theory he should, yes. However, I haven't seen Casari in several days, so it seems unlikely that this would be a workable solution.

Voicing strong opposition against Sel and Zwangzug. If you can't be bothered to keep your nation alive, let alone RP, you don't deserve any sympathy.

Voicing strong opposition against Sel and Zwangzug. If you can't be bothered to keep your nation alive, let alone RP, you don't deserve any sympathy.

I absolutely agree. I want to say that in qualifying for WC 38 there was a team that ceased and if I remember correctly they were penalized immediately without anyone saying a word, and the only difference from now was that they already had a horrible record. If we did it then, I would tend to feel that we should do it now as well.

But like I say, I'm the n00b who talks about dry gin and gorditas, and who writes terrible RPs about vampires, so here's a grain of salt to take my comment with:

http://www.txroadrunners.com/images/pics/GemTrailsOfEastTexas2005/GrandSaline/BigRockOfSalt.jpg

Voicing strong opposition against Sel and Zwangzug. If you can't be bothered to keep your nation alive, let alone RP, you don't deserve any sympathy.
I personally don't go on NS main a lot. There's nothing there. I don't see why there's any justification for penalizing them. It's just giving sympathy and an undue boost to the people below them.

I absolutely agree. I want to say that in qualifying for WC 38 there was a team that ceased and if I remember correctly they were penalized immediately without anyone saying a word, and the only difference from now was that they already had a horrible record. If we did it then, I would tend to feel that we should do it now as well.
If I didn't voice my opposition to that, I didn't notice it or it wasn't mentioned much. But I think I remember that.

yeah it was shciavonia in world cup 37. If they had noticed it Oickioda , and another team would have qualed directly. And i would have been ib that playoff with Satiaville.:sniper:
But anyways...

yeah it was shciavonia in world cup 37. If they had noticed it Oickioda , and another team would have qualed directly. And i would have been ib that playoff with Satiaville.:sniper:
But anyways...

Schiavonia did not cease until after the start of the finals, hence why they were included in the field of 32. Their penalty was assessed after MD3, dropping them to last in their group.

HOSTS FINAL DECISION

Due to precedent (WC38 notwithstanding) and the fact that it is now very easy to restore ceased nations, any nations found to be ceased at the end of qualifying (that is, after MD10), then they will be given an immediate 80 point penalty.

A second sweep will be taken before the Finals draw (ie after the playoffs). Any nations found ceased at this point will be ejected from the Finals, and their place will be taken by the team they beat in the playoffs (if they competed in the playoffs) or the highest-placed non-qualifier in their group (if they won the group).

A final sweep will take place between Finals MD3 and the last sixteen. The -80 penalty applies, and we will also track any nations which may expire before the final (excluding if required).

Announcing the opening of voting for the upcoming Cup of Harmony!

The bids:

Ad'ihan and Acapais (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=551359)
Demot and Vephrall (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13507046)
Starblaydia and Krytenia (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13588385&postcount=26)
Yafalonia and Bazor 2 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13519815&postcount=3356) (note, that's one nation controlled by two users)


All members of the EWCC (i.e. all those who have hosted a World Cup before) are eligible to vote, except for Starblaydia, Krytenia, Demot/ESF, Vephrall, Ad'ihan, and Bazalonia, who are candidates.

Please DO NOT SEND YOUR VOTES TO ME! As I am a candidate in this vote and Vice-President Casari seems to have gone AWOL, all votes are to be sent to a neutral third party - in this case, New Manhattan (a.k.a. Commerce Heights, Capitalizt SLANI, Jaseuyeon, etc.). If telegramming votes, please send them only to New Manhattan, not any of his other nations, and especially not to me.

As always, the voting will last for one week, which means it will close on Monday 14 April at 0230 UTC (that's 3:30am BST, Sunday 10:30pm EDT, etc.).

IMPORTANT NOTE!
Due to the large number of bids, we will be using instant-runoff voting (en.wikipedia.org/instant-runoff voting) to determine the winner. Here's what this means:

When sending your vote, please rank as many of the bids as you wish in order of preference, starting with 1 for your most preferred bid. Example:

1. Canada
2. Bangladesh
3. Bolivia

means that you prefer for Canada to host, followed by Bangladesh, and failing that, Bolivia.

Just to let everyone in Group Six, and possibly beyond should they stick in 3rd place, Rejistania are to be known as KaMaRi from Matchday Six onwards, as per their request in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13587731&postcount=286).

Quite what the reason/difference is, I'm not too sure. Something like ESF/Valanora, or UCS/SLANI, I reckon.

What's the capital of San Seriffe?

Bodoni.

/me wishes we'd do away with that damned must have a nation on ns requirement. Why require pointless bookkeeping to play the game?

So, I don't see why it's a bad thing to let people RP if they don't have a state on NS. The problem is if they sign up and then disappear, well, we don't have any way to reach them. The reasonable assumption is that if you sign up, you're going to participate.

But if they disappear, it doesn't effect anything. It's not like there's any kind of mandatory participation in effect.

For Pete's sake, people.

All you have to do is type nationstates.net into your browser's address bar, then type in your nation name and password, hit Enter, and you're done. It takes fifteen seconds every sixty days (assuming it's on vacation mode). If you can't deal with that sort of time requirement...well, obviously you don't have time to RP either.

But if they disappear, it doesn't effect anything. It's not like there's any kind of mandatory participation in effect.

In practice, you're right. I'm not complaining about the results. If I lose to a country that's disappeared because they're better or the ball bounced in their favor, so be it. That's not what bugs me. It's being in a group that's two thirds inactive.

debate

It's being in a group that's two thirds inactive.

That rule doesn't do much to prevent that from happening. Almost all the inactive players have active nations. There's no real way to deal with inactive nations, especially in qualifiers.

So, I don't see why it's a bad thing to let people RP if they don't have a state on NS.
A nation that does not exist on NS cannot post on the forums.

A nation that does not exist on NS cannot post on the forums.

Ah, I assumed you could sign up for the forums some other way and still post like it was a regular board.

That rule doesn't do much to prevent that from happening. Almost all the inactive players have active nations. There's no real way to deal with inactive nations, especially in qualifiers.

If it's the 80 point rule, yeah, that's true, because we still play the games. It kind of amounts to retroactive infinite RP bonus. Ugh. But the point I was trying to make was that I don't care about the end results of games with non-RPers, it's the one-sidedness that it leads to. It's just not as fun when I've got nothing to run with when writing up a post.

I'd really not want to have to go so far as to say, perhaps, that all participants must at least post a roster, and if they miss the cutoff for that, they're out. That's kind of silly because rosters aren't boilerplate and a lot of nations have really turned roster posts into an art.

I need to be careful what I say, because I'm going to turn into one of those non-RPing n00bs this weekend ^_^;

That rule doesn't do much to prevent that from happening. Almost all the inactive players have active nations. There's no real way to deal with inactive nations, especially in qualifiers.

Group 8 is almost dead, apart from moi. I can't complain, because it helps moi.
Abaio are doing well! Looks like Nova...err are going home with 4th.

I think with most of group non-RPing, we're getting non-predictable results apart from me winning a lot.

All this talk about non-RPs and teams is answering my questions that I was going to ask, which was why I came onto this thread.

Currently in my group (Group 5) there have been only two players who have RPed Myself (I do admit not as much as I should have) and Prazkoy. We are currently 3rd and last.

No one else has posted an RP hell, Agroprom and Solenial didn't even post rosters. I am aware that your ranking devised by your KPB points has some say in how you perform, but surely doesn't RP have any bearing on how you perform? Valanora apart from the roster has yet to post but is yet is on top of the table without a loss, now I don't know if he is away or is aware of how this operates and know that he will automatically proceed to the World Cup and so won't need to bother posting till then, but come on.

Umm Blouman, I have three RPs thank you very much. Admittedly I would have 8, but I don't have the time to RP on the days I go to uni.

Umm Blouman, I have three RPs thank you very much.

I don't know if you are trying to be funny because I may have posted incorrectly if so, ok I will review my post when I have a bit more time.

If you are not

Then you aren't in my group, unless it is one of you puppet states if so who are you? as I did check over the RP thread and only saw myself and Prazkoy. Of course I may have missed it, which wouldn't surprise me too much.

Admittedly I would have 8, but I don't have the time to RP on the days I go to uni.

Tell me about it.

I don't know if you are trying to be funny because I may have posted incorrectly if so, ok I will review my post when I have a bit more time.

If you are not

Then you aren't in my group, unless it is one of you puppet states if so who are you?

I am Valanora...

Group 8 is almost dead, apart from moi. I can't complain, because it helps moi.
Abaio are doing well! Looks like Nova...err are going home with 4th.

I think with most of group non-RPing, we're getting non-predictable results apart from me winning a lot.


In your group, I wonder whatever happened to Sesquipedalianist. He was a great RPer in the Baptism of Fire. We beat him, then I don't think he has said another word since. We didn't mean to completely demoralize that nation! ;)

In your group, I wonder whatever happened to Sesquipedalianist. He was a great RPer in the Baptism of Fire. We beat him, then I don't think he has said another word since. We didn't mean to completely demoralize that nation! ;)

Or he (or she) has forgetten how to spell their nation's name :p

HOSTS FINAL DECISION
Sel Appa wishes to make it known that we vehemently oppose, condemn, and abhor this decision.

instant-runoff voting (en.wikipedia.org/instant-runoff voting)
HELL YEAH!

NM or somebody said something about accounts on the forums being deactivated with nations. Has this been tested? It doesn't really make sense since they are separate entities. However, Jolt is so heavily customized, it certainly is a possibility. I'll check it out in a few moments.

I am Valanora...

That would explain why I didn't see Valanora on the thread as you were posintg under ESF, but apart from that my post still stands

That would explain why I didn't see Valanora on the thread as you were posintg under ESF, but apart from that my post still stands
See, this is why I hate when people don't use their actual nation names. There should be an 80 point penalty for that. ;)

It's all there in my Roster post...

Group 01 - 4 rosters
Group 02 - 3 rosters
Group 03 - 3 rosters

Group 04 - 3 rosters
Group 05 - 4 rosters
Group 06 - 4 rosters

Group 07 - 4 rosters
Group 08 - 1 roster (Jeruselem)
Group 09 - 2 rosters

Group 10 - 5 rosters
Group 11 - 5 rosters
Group 12 - 4 rosters

Group 13 - 4 rosters
Group 14 - 4 rosters
Group 15 - 6 rosters

Total = 57 out of 90
Average = 3.80 per group

Highest - Group 15 = 6
Lowest - Group 08 = 1

Which is the same as "it's in the fine print" and has no basis in reality. People don't look at rosters for the most part. Some do. Others don't. When someone is skimming posts in the RP thread, they're looking for things that flash out: Valanora does, but it's not showing up, so it looks like it's not there.

Not really important though I guess.

And NM is correct, a ceased nation is deactivated on the forums. I do wonder if you stayed logged in and your nation died, what would happen. I think this sets a dangerous precedent and we are better to err on the side of let it be. There's too many what ifs in killing a ceased nation.

Which is the same as "it's in the fine print" and has no basis in reality. People don't look at rosters for the most part. Some do. Others don't. When someone is skimming posts in the RP thread, they're looking for things that flash out: Valanora does, but it's not showing up, so it looks like it's not there.

Not really important though I guess.

And NM is correct, a ceased nation is deactivated on the forums. I do wonder if you stayed logged in and your nation died, what would happen. I think this sets a dangerous precedent and we are better to err on the side of let it be. There's too many what ifs in killing a ceased nation.

WTF - Are you going on about Sel?

A nation ceasing essentially means that in terms of NS - They no longer exist.. hence the term Ceased to Exist (CtE). Why should any one who is not even paying enough attention to NS to keep their nation alive and who cannot post be allowed to take a spot in the World Cup?

And setting what precident? None of this stops the person from ressurecting their nation and re-joining the WC with whatever KPB they have. They have time, they need to make sure that their nation does not cease before the World Cup Finishes

Which is the same as "it's in the fine print" and has no basis in reality. People don't look at rosters for the most part. Some do. Others don't. When someone is skimming posts in the RP thread, they're looking for things that flash out: Valanora does, but it's not showing up, so it looks like it's not there.

Not really important though I guess.

And NM is correct, a ceased nation is deactivated on the forums. I do wonder if you stayed logged in and your nation died, what would happen. I think this sets a dangerous precedent and we are better to err on the side of let it be. There's too many what ifs in killing a ceased nation.

A) I was replying to the Blouman Empire
B) If you are too lazy to look at a roster, it's not my fault. Besides, in not looking at the roster, you are not following good RP etiquette, as the RP parameters are set there.
C) If you can't take the 15 seconds it requires to login and/or revive a nation, then why should you be allowed to RP as that nation in a RP that requires a government?
D) It seems to me, that you and others of like mind, are trying to get the maximium reward with minimal effort. That is unacceptable in the world of fair play, the world in which we operate this game, and I would appreciate it if your whining would cease and desist.

Thank You.

D) It seems to me, that you and others of like mind, are trying to get the maximium reward with minimal effort. That is unacceptable in the world of fair play, the world in which we operate this game, and I would appreciate it if your whining would cease and desist.

Hey, there's an idea, open up one or two slots in either WC or CoH for "Fair Play" teams :-D Joking, joking.

C) If you can't take the 15 seconds it requires to login and/or revive a nation, then why should you be allowed to RP as that nation in a RP that requires a government?

That has nothing to do with doing away with the rule. It is a bit annoying to have to do that everytime but that isn't the real issue. Nations that let their NS accounts slip and who became unable to post won't be able to enter the next cup anyways. So in due course they'll lose their ability to take part. So that's not relevant. The problem is that it's totally unfair to have some groups all of a sudden have every team move up a spot. It increases the importance of the group draw, which is already far too important. If we simply wait until after the cup those issues will sort themselves out without giving an unfair bonus to certain random teams.

What about if a nation does a Serbia & Montenegro type spilt? For people who don't know, Serbia & Montenegro qualified for the 2006 World Cup but had ceased as a political entity prior to the World Cup so the football association was disbanded after the World Cup with the two nations then setting up their own associations.

Obviously for such a split to be known the person behind the nation anyway would need to be active so apart from whether the team remains or is ceded into the new nation I suppose it's a moot point.

What about if a nation does a Serbia & Montenegro type spilt? For people who don't know, Serbia & Montenegro qualified for the 2006 World Cup but had ceased as a political entity prior to the World Cup so the football association was disbanded after the World Cup with the two nations then setting up their own associations.

Well, the closest NS example I can come up with is when the UCS gained a second football association (Jaseuyeon) in direct competition with Capitalizt SLANI. Not technically a split per se, but somewhat similar. In this case, the existing FA (SLANI) kept all of its ranking points while Jaseuyeon started from zero and was eligible for the BoF.

In that real-world example above, since FIFA recognized Serbia as the direct successor, Serbia would keep all the ranking points, and Montenegro would start fresh.

Personally, I don't think randomly awarding teams that RP an opportunity to win out is such a bad idea.

Consider the following:

1 - If you don't RP, you don't receive any RP points;
2 - RP points influence your chances at winning;
3 - Players that have more RP points improve their chances at winning;
4 - Players that have more points likewise improve their chances at winning;
5 - If player A encounters player B, who has fewer points than A has, the probability of A winning is greater than the probability of B winning;
6 - Players with too few points are unlikely to qualify for the World Cup;
7 - In general, players that cease to exist do not RP;
8 - Via point 6, players that cease to exist are unlikely to qualify for the World Cup.

This would be the general scenario, where a non-RPing team does not qualify for the World Cup.

On the one hand, adding a penalty for ceasing to exist might seem counter-productive. After all, it's like making the death penalty (or any penalty) for suicide. However, as the World Cup's primary focus is to encourage RPing on all levels (as is stated in many places around the World Cup NSwiki links, especially on the FAQ link), removing non-RPing members from the World Cup fulfills one of many purposes on the NS forums - to encourage RPing. As much as it is good etiquette as it is good fortune (it's not every day someone in NS dies...), the RP penalty ensures that the majority of the people participating in the World Cup Finals are in fact good RPers (now there are exceptions...).

Now, if the World Cup is not about RPing and having good entertainment but rather spitting out random numbers into a computer and showing the results to the world (sounds like a nerds' convention), please correct me now.

Now, if the World Cup is not about RPing and having good entertainment but rather spitting out random numbers into a computer and showing the results to the world (sounds like a nerds' convention), please correct me now.The latter belief might be more widespread than you'd think.

The disappointingly ironic thing is I, for instance, would personally prefer active participants to qualify than ceased nations, all other things being equal. So I support the hosts' right to decide as per precedent, and don't want to drag out an argument that is unlikely to be resolved. (So why I'm bothering to post...)

The latter belief might be more widespread than you'd think.

The disappointingly ironic thing is I, for instance, would personally prefer active participants to qualify than ceased nations, all other things being equal. So I support the hosts' right to decide as per precedent, and don't want to drag out an argument that is unlikely to be resolved. (So why I'm bothering to post...)

Argh, then a -160 penalty for them :mad:

And I don't know why you're posting. I just felt that people should at least know for what they're arguing.

And as far as I am aware, the precedent is the -80 point penalty, so I'm not sure whether it's because some non-RPing n00b is leading the group or because we had spicy peppers last night as to why we're debating.

Hey guys. I'm liking this no RP do well thing :P. I'll try to get a roster up later tonight.

Hey Quak, this no-RPing thing doesn't always work ... look at Novapsolu in Group 8.

WTF - Are you going on about Sel?

A nation ceasing essentially means that in terms of NS - They no longer exist.. hence the term Ceased to Exist (CtE).
All it means is that the nation was deactivated. The only acceptable cessation of existence is when a nation RPs such.

Why should any one who is not even paying enough attention to NS to keep their nation alive and who cannot post be allowed to take a spot in the World Cup?
Because this is based on luck. The one time in a hundred cups it happens is not a big deal.

A) I was replying to the Blouman Empire
B) If you are too lazy to look at a roster, it's not my fault. Besides, in not looking at the roster, you are not following good RP etiquette, as the RP parameters are set there.
C) If you can't take the 15 seconds it requires to login and/or revive a nation, then why should you be allowed to RP as that nation in a RP that requires a government?
D) It seems to me, that you and others of like mind, are trying to get the maximium reward with minimal effort. That is unacceptable in the world of fair play, the world in which we operate this game, and I would appreciate it if your whining would cease and desist.

Thank You.
B--not everyone is thorough and perfect.
C--for some that's a hassle or you forget about it. I honestly rarely think about NS proper
D--Why don't we just penalize anyone who doesn't RP?

What about if a nation does a Serbia & Montenegro type spilt? For people who don't know, Serbia & Montenegro qualified for the 2006 World Cup but had ceased as a political entity prior to the World Cup so the football association was disbanded after the World Cup with the two nations then setting up their own associations.

Obviously for such a split to be known the person behind the nation anyway would need to be active so apart from whether the team remains or is ceded into the new nation I suppose it's a moot point.
That's fine because it would be done with RPing, not an OOC thing.

The latter belief might be more widespread than you'd think.

The disappointingly ironic thing is I, for instance, would personally prefer active participants to qualify than ceased nations, all other things being equal. So I support the hosts' right to decide as per precedent, and don't want to drag out an argument that is unlikely to be resolved. (So why I'm bothering to post...)
By that logic, we should just eliminate anyone who doesn't RP. If they can't bother to RP, why should they get in the way of RPers?

I'm not dragging this on further after this. I'll just get back to square one in terms of public relations if I keep arguing.

All it means is that the nation was deactivated. The only acceptable cessation of existence is when a nation RPs such.


Riiiiiight.. And what has happened to the thousands, nay millions, of nations that have ceased without a "I'm leaving NS RP". Many people just leave NS without even saying a word. So just because they didn't write a "I'm leaving" that their nation still somehow exists?


Because this is based on luck. The one time in a hundred cups it happens is not a big deal.


And sorry what does that have to do with the price of Potatoes in Uruguay? If you somehow manage to host a WC you can do it your way. Star-Kry think differently and as is their rights as hosts decide to penalise those that have CtE'd at the end of the comp.


B--not everyone is thorough and perfect.
C--for some that's a hassle or you forget about it. I honestly rarely think about NS proper
D--Why don't we just penalize anyone who doesn't RP?


B-- I think this is a dead horse. The information was provided a mix-up was resolved, let's just move on. OK?
C-- The thing is... that "NS Proper" is the real game. and we are representating the nations of "NS Proper" on the forums.
D-- The question is "Can you RP?" people choose not to RP for a number of reasons that could take forever to list. So I won't but the question, is there an ability to RP? If the nation has CtE'd then no you cannot. However as ressurecting is so easy to do now, there is no reason, if you are active in NS at all that you should be CtE'd.


By that logic, we should just eliminate anyone who doesn't RP. If they can't bother to RP, why should they get in the way of RPers?

I'm not dragging this on further after this. I'll just get back to square one in terms of public relations if I keep arguing.

*shrugs* Basically, the precident and rules of the WCC is that the hosts decide on basically everything. If you have an issue with the way that a particular WC is run, or any other WCC Sanctioned tourney. Then take it up with the hosts. Rather than doing it in a manner like this.

See now the last 4 or 5 pages is what the NSWCDT is about.. right?

<leaves the cross fire i inadvertently started>

I'm not dragging this on further after this. I'll just get back to square one in terms of public relations if I keep arguing.

I don't think anyone will be badgered by the argument, but more so the manner in which the argument is portrayed. That said, I don't that there's anything here creating a "public relations nightmare" (mostly because "PR" is something devoted to a little department I call the "Office of Complaints, Criticisms, and Complements" - except on very important things, in which I devote those to the "Office of Constructive Complaints, Criticisms, and Complements").

In any case, if you have something constructive to offer and have the logic to support your case, presenting it can make things better. Of course, then we have democracy, which somehow shoots down half of the really good things before they appear and lofts half of the really bad things before anyone has a chance to do anything about it... eh, but you get what you pay for (and I didn't pay for anything - YES, I DID NOT PAY THEM TAXES!). Whatever the case may be, as long as the angry minority (sometimes I find myself there...) doesn't turn needlessly violent (defining needless...), things should be fine.

Now, who's up for a cup of jolt?

See now the last 4 or 5 pages is what the NSWCDT is about.. right?

<leaves the cross fire i inadvertently started>

Want a cup of jolt before you leave?

Hey Quak, this no-RPing thing doesn't always work ... look at Novapsolu in Group 8.

Well, if you read my notice, he's one of the few exceptions. As it seems, Margaret loves him. Either that or he does a good job of bribing WC hosts...

Riiiiiight.. And what has happened to the thousands, nay millions, of nations that have ceased without a "I'm leaving NS RP". Many people just leave NS without even saying a word. So just because they didn't write a "I'm leaving" that their nation still somehow exists?
OOCly they don't exist, but IMO ICly they still do unless they say otherwise. Also, only those who post. About half of those million probably never posted.

C-- The thing is... that "NS Proper" is the real game. and we are representating the nations of "NS Proper" on the forums.
The real game has little relevance. This is an RP, it should follow forum not proper stuff.

*shrugs* Basically, the precident and rules of the WCC is that the hosts decide on basically everything. If you have an issue with the way that a particular WC is run, or any other WCC Sanctioned tourney. Then take it up with the hosts. Rather than doing it in a manner like this.
Eh whatever, any tournament I host would never have such a silly policy.

I'm not one who chimes in much on all that mumbo-jumbo about Rping and stuff, but I'm one of the couple teams in my group that RP (granted my writing sucks, but anything is better thatn nothing, sometimes) and I've lead my group (Which is a shock in and of itself) for the last 4 or 5 MD's.

RPing does help, and though I do read my opponent's posts (I usually beat them to Rping my matches, most of the time) I don't really care if they RP or not. Its not gonna effect my RPing and frankly, the less RP's i have to read, the easier it is to find mine...;)

(granted my writing sucks, but anything is better thatn nothing, sometimes)

We all sucked at one time; shouldn't be any reason to punish you for doing it poorly (that is, unless you don't ever improve...).

*sniped quote from me*
OOCly they don't exist, but IMO ICly they still do unless they say otherwise. Also, only those who post. About half of those million probably never posted.

*sniped quote from me*

The real game has little relevance. This is an RP, it should follow forum not proper stuff.


This is where I disagree. If that is the case, What makes NS Different from any other forum where we can go and say "Oh, look I'm a nation!"?

We have the NS and II RP forums, and WA semi-RP forum. And everything else is general, moderation, technical or gameplay. i.e. directly related to the running of "NS Proper" or totally un-related to game play at all.

NS is all about creating a nation concept and then answering issues in accordance to that concept. And seeing how that concept works in NS exaggerated context. And then RPing that nation in accordance to the concept. Why else when a nation CtE's their forum account gets banned as well? because their nation just doesn't exist and so they have nothing to RP about.

That's why when nations cease people just treat them as they don't exist, in RP's but something like World Cup, it's different... ceased nations affect others directly. Any what's the real kicker for me is this is the linkage between the NS account and the Jolt forum account. AFAIK no "normal" jolt member can post in the NS sub-forums. You are welcome to test that theory out but it just re-inforces my point. NS Forum RPs = extension of "NS Proper"

EDIT: Yes, I created normal Jolt account and tried to post and it wouldn't let me. NS RP = Extension of "NS Proper" together they make NationStates.

Right, after reading all of the debate about RPing and winning/qualification (mostly, if not entirely, done by people with far less WC RPing experience than myself) and, without picking on anyone specifically by making grand overriding statements, I have this to say:

We all love RPs, whether reading or writing them. RP-Bonus is meant to encourage RPing by giving you a little bit of a boost when the dice roll. RPing has never been, is not currently and hopefully never will be an all-encompassing way of winning.

If it was, we would simply ask everyone to post a single RP about their football team, and decide who wrote the best post, then we'd hand them the World Championship. After all, this is where the arguments for 'RP = teh win' logically lead to, is it not?

Up until WC3 it was completely random dice. Then it was Excel and ranks shortly after, then to compensate for ranks we had RP Bonus in WC9. Then it was KPBs in WC12, then we had Java-based scorinators. And now some of you are calling for non-RPers to be chucked out, or for RPers only to make it through or even get to participate (essentially the same thing), and all sorts of rubbish. Thankfully it seems an equal number are posting against this, with whom I totally agree.

Rank, Randomness and RP. The current Cup is fairly heavy on the last two, as we've seen. RPing has a larger influence on your rank than before (as far as I can tell) and, with the extra randomness involved, we've seen some interesting results so far from RPers and non-RPers alike.

Quite why this cup has seen a boost in participation (again, as far as I can tell) compared to the last few tournaments, I'm not sure. My guess is it isn't the hosts ( ;) ) more like the fact we have a little game-within-a-game here that actually works because it's fun and you actually have to work to achieve things, making them all the more satisfying. The WC hasn't really changed since I first started playing, some 25 editions ago, and I think there's a good reason for that.

By that logic, we should just eliminate anyone who doesn't RP. If they can't bother to RP, why should they get in the way of RPers?
Sorry if I was unclear, I think you might have misinterpreted me. I was referring to a personal preference-what I would like to occur. I wasn't proposing a "logical" policy or course of action, only listing what I personally enjoy seeing. Again, apologies if I didn't make that clear.

Was there a cut-off post for today's matches?

Was there a cut-off post for today's matches?

I figured it was when Kry Vephrolled us, but who knows.

By the way, Kry, that was great.

I figured it was when Kry Vephrolled us, but who knows.

By the way, Kry, that was great.

The correct answer is "YES"! Didn't you learn anything from my last lecture/rant/RP/whatever-you-call-that-thingy? *sighs* There is much to learn, my young hoppers.

I figured it was when Kry Vephrolled us, but who knows.

By the way, Kry, that was great.

You know...I half (er, 1093/2186) saw that coming as I prepared to click the link.

I would call Kry an evil, evil man, but then again he did just extend my winning streak to four.

Hell, I'll say it anyway. You are an evil, evil man, Kry. :p

Didn't you learn anything from my last lecture/rant/RP/whatever-you-call-that-thingy?

Not at all! :-D Learning is for the smrt.

Not at all! :-D Learning is for the smrt.

And not learning is for the people who are going to clean my clogged toilet with a toothpaste!

You know...I half (er, 1093/2186) saw that coming as I prepared to click the link.

I would call Kry an evil, evil man, but then again he did just extend my winning streak to four.

Hell, I'll say it anyway. You are an evil, evil man, Kry. :p

Oh woe is Vephrall! Woe unto they who defile the name of the ones by whom salvation is nigh! Woe unto they who defile the ways of the RP! Woe unto they! May they whose right makes might forgive them of their trespasses for they know not what they speak!

In your group, I wonder whatever happened to Sesquipedalianist. He was a great RPer in the Baptism of Fire. We beat him, then I don't think he has said another word since. We didn't mean to completely demoralize that nation! ;)

Don't kid yourself nothing short of a beer shortage could demoralise a nation of drunks ^^. During the BoF at the most inappropriate time I was exceedingly busy before Easter than at Easter was sick and I missed a whole heap of rping. Now the WC qualifiers are in full swing I just haven't had the time to sit down and do a rp, although the team roster might suddenly be 'found' ;)

Don't kid yourself nothing short of a beer shortage could demoralise a nation of drunks ^^. During the BoF at the most inappropriate time I was exceedingly busy before Easter than at Easter was sick and I missed a whole heap of rping. Now the WC qualifiers are in full swing I just haven't had the time to sit down and do a rp, although the team roster might suddenly be 'found' ;)

You'll need it for CoH! :p

And not learning is for the people who are going to clean my clogged toilet with a toothpaste!

Oh! Is it like the foaming pipe snake, when you squeeze two toothpastes in that are different colors?

Note to any Korean members: WTG on finally getting one of your own, Yi So-yeon, in Space :) See here: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2008/04/133_22151.html (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/22/asia/kimchi.php)

Next the world right?

Don't kid yourself nothing short of a beer shortage could demoralise a nation of drunks ^^. During the BoF at the most inappropriate time I was exceedingly busy before Easter than at Easter was sick and I missed a whole heap of rping. Now the WC qualifiers are in full swing I just haven't had the time to sit down and do a rp, although the team roster might suddenly be 'found' ;)

Well its good to see you again as we must continue our rivalry!

Btw, for those of you looking at Group XI, be aware, Newmanistan is not only still alive, we still control our own destiny. Our remaining games are against Kelssek and Eighthgraderistan, and if we win out, we will top both of them. ;)

Note to any Korean members: WTG on finally getting one of your own, Yi So-yeon, in Space :) See here: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2008/04/133_22151.html (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/22/asia/kimchi.php)

Next the world right?

We already had the world, didn't you know? ;)

Anyway, I hope C&M appreciates the thickening plot... taken courtesy of his own roster...

In theory he should, yes. However, I haven't seen Casari in several days, so it seems unlikely that this would be a workable solution.

I was boozing it up in New Orleans while attending an American Chemical Society conference, and none of you rated high enough to be on the notification lists, as, you know, I hate you all.

Oh woe is Vephrall! Woe unto they who defile the name of the ones by whom salvation is nigh! Woe unto they who defile the ways of the RP! Woe unto they! May they whose right makes might forgive them of their trespasses for they know not what they speak!

No, he's right. I'm evil and proud of it.

MWAHAHAHAHA!

No, he's right. I'm evil and proud of it.

MWAHAHAHAHA!

Ah, well then %$#^ that %$#^. I'm not bribing you guys anymore.

Well, I didn't know Samseong was a sponsor of the Cafundeu national team :confused: I guess it's good publicity though, even it's only on the alternate kit.

Btw, for those of you looking at Group XI, be aware, Newmanistan is not only still alive, we still control our own destiny. Our remaining games are against Kelssek and Eighthgraderistan, and if we win out, we will top both of them. ;)


Bah. That's nothing. :p In Group 14, thanks to the mysterious disappearance of Naboombu Umbongo (who still doesn't exist, I just checked), I (technically) control my own destiny, despite being listed as eliminated. All I have to do is beat 151st ranked Aleos at home on the final match day, since I should own the tiebreaker (whatever it is...head-to-head, goals scored, etc.).


*runs off and sacrifices a bunch of rubber chickens to Margaret just to be safe* :D

*runs off and sacrifices a bunch of rubber chickens to Margaret just to be safe* :D

You people are not listening to my RPs!

snip
That's an absurd and arbitrary assumption to assume that just because a nation is deactivated in OOC automatically means they go into anarchy. If you want to go with that, then they really should just go poof. What happens when you create a nation? You create a whole history behind it. By the prevailing logic, that shouldn't be allowed. Judge Sel Appa differentiates between NS proper, OOC, and RPing.

I can post on the other forums like Londinivm...odd.

snip
If randomness is how it works, then why are you penalizing ceased nations that "randomly" got ahead.

I was boozing it up in New Orleans while attending an American Chemical Society conference, and none of you rated high enough to be on the notification lists, as, you know, I hate you all.
Any chance you guys could criticize the shitty status of Chemistry in US High schools.

I was boozing it up in New Orleans while attending an American Chemical Society conference, and none of you rated high enough to be on the notification lists, as, you know, I hate you all.

GAH! Hamsters doing chemistry!

http://www.hamsteropera.co.uk/history0007.JPG

That's an absurd and arbitrary assumption to assume that just because a nation is deactivated in OOC automatically means they go into anarchy. If you want to go with that, then they really should just go poof. What happens when you create a nation? You create a whole history behind it. By the prevailing logic, that shouldn't be allowed. Judge Sel Appa differentiates between NS proper, OOC, and RPing.

No OOCly it means that the player can no longer contribute to the forums...
OOCly it means that they don't contribute to Jolt RP
OOCly it means they haven't logged in to their nation for at least 30 days

ICly it could mean anything...

Their nation just vanished... went into total self-imposed isolation ... went into anarchy... disbanded and absorbed into other nations... that's just a few.

If somehow you simply forgot to login into NS and you do participate in on Jolt... you find that your nation has expired. and it's a simply matter of loging back in and restoring the nation.

There is no reason why anyone who is remotely active should have a ceased nation.

As for everything else you said... it's not relelvant to the discussion.

"There is no reason why anyone who is remotely active should have a ceased nation."

But there's no real reason for people to have an active nation other than the abirtrary Jolt rule. That game and this game are TOTALLY unrelated for a lot of people. It would make only slightly less sense to impose a rule saying you have to have an account for Wikipedia to take part in the cup.

But the real issue here has nothing to do with nations being active. It has to do with fairness. If a nation ceases to exist and isn't RPing that's already a big advantage but to just retroactively eliminate their competition is a step too far. If a team doesn't win enough games to qualify, it shouldn't qualify.

And honestly, if they cease. It has a slight chance of affecting one cup. They're unlikely to come back.

I don't know where you get that NS site and every OOC thing about it automatically has an influence on RP nonsense from. I don't even go with anything on the site because it's just ridiculous. My nation has 1.3 billion, not 6.5 or whatever the site says.

Az, I agree and dis-agree with you....

Jolt RP is meant to be an extension of your NS nation, that's why when you join you are given an account with the name of your nation in it, not a single "player account" where you can RP as whatever nations you have. Granted, I don't think that there should be 100% link between them but unless you* are carrying concepts over from the NS to RP nations then there is no link at all and one has to wonder why you* are playing NS instead of just joining some RP forum somewhere.

As for the others... I agree that fairness is the main issue, and for the most part generally doesn't matter, however we've got to remember the reason this came up. c.f Scores thread. UM has ceased and yet is in a playoff position, is that fair? I don't think so. So what are going to do about it? whatever the hosts decide to do about.

Can I influence what they do? to a certain extent. Anyway, I don't see any benefit for continuing on.

But there's no real reason for people to have an active nation other than the abirtrary Jolt rule. That game and this game are TOTALLY unrelated for a lot of people. It would make only slightly less sense to impose a rule saying you have to have an account for Wikipedia to take part in the cup.

...

Okay, maybe this can be explained by the fact I haven't had any caffeine in several hours, but I doubt it as I don't feel tired at all right now.

But that has got to be the most nonsensical paragraph I've seen this month.

I'm going to make this very simple.

You cannot post in this forum without having an active NS nation.

Therefore, BY DEFINITION, participation in this forum and presence on NS are related.

I really don't see how we can make this any clearer.

Here is a quick look at some qualifying senarios:

GROUP I
Casari and Daehanjeiguk have each clinched a playoff berth. Jariss has a 2 point lead for third.
Daehanjeiguk clinches Auto berth with a win or a draw and a Casari loss or draw or a Casari loss.
Casari clinches Auto berth with a win and either a Daehanjeiguk loss or draw. Jariss clinches playoff berth with a win or losses or draws by Engbec and Magnus Valerius.
Both Engbec and Magnus Valerius need a win, with the other team to lose or draw, and Jariss to lose to earn a playoff berth.

Erm... considering Daehanjeiguk and Casari play the next match, Casari has to win to qualify automatically. Engbec and Magnus Valerius also play against each other, so the other must eliminate the other to have a chance at the play-offs.

GROUP II
All three playoff spots have been clinched.
Quakmybush clinches group with win or Cafundeu loss or draw.
Cafundeu clinches group with win and Quakmybush loss.

Erm... ditto. Cafundeu plays Quakmybush.

GROUP III
All three playoff spots have been clinched.
Bettia clinches group with win or Candelaria And Marquez loss or draw. (or loss and a Candelaria And Marquez loss and a Lovisa win by less than 17 goals)
Candelaria And Marquez clinches group with win and Bettia loss.
Lovisa needs to win by 17 or more and have both Candelaria And Marquez and Bettia lose to clinch group.

Actually, since Lovisa and Bettia play next match, Lovisa must beat Bettia by at least 8 points, and hope that Candelaria And Marquez lose to auto-qualify. Candelaria And Marquez must win and hope that Bettia loses (by no greater than 7 points) to Lovisa. Either that or score 12 goals in their next match if Bettia draws. Bettia needs to win or draw, hoping that Candelaria And Marquez don't win by over 12 points.

GROUP X
Northern Bettia, Yafor 2 and taeshan have all clinched playoff berths.
Northern Bettia clinches AUTO berth with a win or losses or draws by Yafor 2 and taeshan.
Yafor 2 clinches AUTO berth with a win and losses or draws by Northern Bettia and taeshan.
taeshan clinches AUTO berth with a win and losses or draws by Northern Bettia and Yafor 2.
If all three finish level on points, Northern Bettia will earn AUTO berth based on GD.

Taeshan and Northern Bettia play next match, so only a draw will result in an all tie (assuming Yafor 2 also draws). The winner of the Taeshan-Northern Bettia match is likely your lucky group winner.

GROUP XI
Milchama has clinched the AUTO berth
Kura-Pelland clinched playoff berth.
Eighthgraderstan clinches playoff berth with a win or losses or draws from Newmanistan and Kelssek.
Newmanistan clinches playoff berth with a win and an Eighthgraderistan loss.
Kelssek clinches playoff berth with a win and losses by Eighthgraderstan and Newmanistan or a Eighthgraderstan loss and a Newmanistan draw.

Eighthgraderstan and Newmanistan (both "-stan" countries, I see...) play next match; to have any chance to progress, Newmanistan must win their match. In this manner, Kelssek is actually eliminated from the play-off berth, because regardless of the match results on Matchday 10, someone is going to end up higher up than Kelssek.

GROUP XII
Sel Appa has clinched AUTO berth.
The Holy Empire has clinched playoff berth.
Nire and Nire clinches playoff berth with a win or a draw or a The Daleks 2 loss or draw or win by less than 10 goals.
The Daleks 2 clinches playoff berth with a win by 10 or more goals and a Nire and Nire loss.

Personally, I'm hoping that Nire and Nire loses by 8 points exactly (0-8 loss that is), and the Daleks 2 wins by 3 points exactly (3-0 win that is); because that would be an interesting set-up for a perfect draw (both sides have drawn against each other twice).

GROUP XIV
UCS Jasiyun and Demot have clinched playoff berths.
UCS Jasiyun clinches group with a win or draw and loss by Demot.
Demot clinches group with a win and a draw or loss by UCS Jasiyun.
Aleos clinches playoff berth with a win, a draw or a Hopeless SC loss or draw. Can also clinch if Hopeless SC wins by fewer than 3 goals and Aleos loses.
Hopeless SC can clinch playoff berth with a win by at least 2 goals and a Aleos loss.

Jaseuyeon and Demot play against each other - therefore, Demot must win their match to qualify automatically. And since Aleos and Hopeless SC also play against each other, one of them will progress at the expense of the other (Hopeless must hopelessly score at least two goals over Aleos to progress - this is an edited statement from an earlier statement that was unfortunately wrong). And owing to the hosts' decision to penalize the former state of Naboombu Umbongo, they are no longer qualifying.



This summary is by no means an attempt to discredit Qazox - since it is OOC, I figured would like to know the possible scenarios. Thanks to Qazox for actually looking at this stuff nonetheless; otherwise, we'd all be walking blindly. (Omitted Groups are either too complex or unnecessarily simple to read).

...
This summary is by no means an attempt to discredit Qazox - since it is OOC, I figured would like to know the possible scenarios. Thanks to Qazox for actually looking at this stuff nonetheless; otherwise, we'd all be walking blindly. (Omitted Groups are either too complex or unnecessarily simple to read).

Too be honest Daehan, I didn't account for whom was playing whom, just went with what i saw, i could change it, but.... too tired right now, and basically it gives the basic info ya need anyway, right? if X wins, then they are in. If y wins and X loses, then Y gets in, etc.

If randomness is how it works, then why are you penalizing ceased nations that "randomly" got ahead.

Because they don't bloody exist any more!

...

Okay, maybe this can be explained by the fact I haven't had any caffeine in several hours, but I doubt it as I don't feel tired at all right now.

But that has got to be the most nonsensical paragraph I've seen this month.

I'm going to make this very simple.

You cannot post in this forum without having an active NS nation.

Therefore, BY DEFINITION, participation in this forum and presence on NS are related.

I really don't see how we can make this any clearer.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I completely agree with Vephrall.

It's very rare that this is actually going to matter - but we need to be prepared for when it does.

...

Okay, maybe this can be explained by the fact I haven't had any caffeine in several hours, but I doubt it as I don't feel tired at all right now.

But that has got to be the most nonsensical paragraph I've seen this month.

I'm going to make this very simple.

You cannot post in this forum without having an active NS nation.

Therefore, BY DEFINITION, participation in this forum and presence on NS are related.

I really don't see how we can make this any clearer.

You forgot to use streak-free Windex. There's also a blood stain where it reads "BY DEFINITION".

You forgot to use streak-free Windex. There's also a blood stain where it reads "BY DEFINITION".

Actually, it's Cherry Kool Aid. Sorry, that was me.

GAH! Hamsters doing chemistry!

omgpicturepicture

That looks more like an image of our new orders of Orthodox monks about their daily lives.

Anyway, how is this an argument? The one time when our slavish adoration of precedent makes some kind of sense, we fight over it.

"Granted, I don't think that there should be 100% link between them but unless you* are carrying concepts over from the NS to RP nations then there is no link at all and one has to wonder why you* are playing NS instead of just joining some RP forum somewhere."

Random chance only. If I had found some other RP forum somewhere else I prolly wouldn't be here. But there is NO connection between my ns nation and my RP nation. I mean I guess we have the same flag, but nothing that happens in NS effects anything about how I RP. My population isn't connected to that. My economics aren't effected by it. My social policies aren't effected by it. Nothing. The forums are the game for me. All I use NS for is as a mailbox.

UM has ceased and yet is in a playoff position, is that fair? I don't think so.

Why isn't it fair? It's just as fair as any other non-participating nation being in a qualifying spot. And it's much fairer than kicking them out and letting some other nation below them in.

I mean if we did unbalanced groups from the start of the cup and let some teams randomly have groups with one less team and it was say the 3rd seeded team in the group, that would be ridiculous and people would be rightfully complaining. So why do we allow that to become the case after the fact? That's what kicking teams out for becoming non-active does. Just leave them be and they'll disappear by the next cup and everything will be ok.

You cannot post in this forum without having an active NS nation.

Therefore, BY DEFINITION, participation in this forum and presence on NS are related.

And that's a dumb rule too. However we don't have any control over that so there's no point in worrying about it. But we do have control over how we run the world cup. So we should run it in a sensible manner.

I guess the main difference is that I just don't see any reason why we should link the RP forum to the main forum. If we're going to apply penalty points to non-participating nations than we should apply them to all non-participating nations and say a roster is required to take part in the cup. Banning a subset of non-participating nations for not bothering to keep up with some pointless bookkeeping is crazy.

there is precedent where a qualified team poofed and was removed from the WC proper in favor of the 4th place team so this isn;t something new.

WC 31

Code:
---Group 7---- P W D L GF-GA GD Pts
[1] Ariddia 18 13 3 2 53-18 +35 42
[2] Jeruselem 18 12 5 1 48-18 +30 41
3- Chicanada 18 11 2 5 37-20 +17 35
[4] Geisenfried 18 10 2 6 47-31 +16 32
5- Kericia 18 8 5 5 49-35 +14 29
6- Magnus Valerius 18 9 2 7 27-29 -2 29
7- The Macabees 18 6 1 11 24-46 -22 19
8- Tryanny 18 2 5 11 13-47 -34 11
9- Montegrande 18 1 6 11 15-36 -21 9
10- Cyredel 18 2 1 15 17-50 -33 7

Chicanada disappeared and so geisenfried was bumped up a spot. don;t recall any sort of debate over the matter though i could be wrong about that.

Right, well... Albrecht's got an h in it if you want to send us the Cup of Harmony now, plz.

[See me not complain about random numbers. Marvel as I smile warmly towards Lovisa. See my happy smiley face. Here it is look: :) Happy face. Weeee!]


*spits on Simone Di Bradini's grave*

Hey, um, C&M, I hope you don't mind, but that second post of yours broke my window and it's awfully irritating - mind putting a space or something in that long list of descriptors? Thanks.

Official Host Scheduling Note

Play-off Matches will be scorinated over this weekend - Saturday and Sunday, i.e. in 24 and 48 hours from this post.

According to the President, the Cup of Harmony vote will close on Monday. Hopefully invitations will be sent out then, as the non-qualifying RPers will be known by that point.

Post-Qualifying friendlies will take place on Tuesday evening, with the World Cup 40 draw itself taking place Thursday/Friday.

Please send your TGs for Post-Qualifying Friendlies to KRYTENIA. Thank-you.

Equally Official Presidential Scheduling Note

As Star just said, Cup of Harmony host voting will end sometime between Sunday evening and Monday evening, depending on where in the world you happen to be (Monday 0230 UTC).

World Cup 41 signups will begin tomorrow.

Host voting for the Baptism of Fire will begin at the end of the World Cup group stage, so start getting those bids in!

Thank you.

Az, I agree and dis-agree with you....

Jolt RP is meant to be an extension of your NS nation, that's why when you join you are given an account with the name of your nation in it, not a single "player account" where you can RP as whatever nations you have.
No, they do that because it's easier and you don't register as a player.

Granted, I don't think that there should be 100% link between them but unless you* are carrying concepts over from the NS to RP nations then there is no link at all and one has to wonder why you* are playing NS instead of just joining some RP forum somewhere.
Because there is no other place to do it. Or maybe you started with the site and later wised up to the fact that the proper site is more or less silly.

As for the others... I agree that fairness is the main issue, and for the most part generally doesn't matter, however we've got to remember the reason this came up. c.f Scores thread. UM has ceased and yet is in a playoff position, is that fair? I don't think so. So what are going to do about it? whatever the hosts decide to do about.
Then, we should knockout anyone who hasn't participated. You can't selectively choose who gets knocked out because of a programming rule.

Because they don't bloody exist any more!
Not true at all. The account has only been deactivated.

I mean if we did unbalanced groups from the start of the cup and let some teams randomly have groups with one less team and it was say the 3rd seeded team in the group, that would be ridiculous and people would be rightfully complaining. So why do we allow that to become the case after the fact? That's what kicking teams out for becoming non-active does. Just leave them be and they'll disappear by the next cup and everything will be ok.
Exactly. It's a minor issue.

I guess the main difference is that I just don't see any reason why we should link the RP forum to the main forum. If we're going to apply penalty points to non-participating nations than we should apply them to all non-participating nations and say a roster is required to take part in the cup. Banning a subset of non-participating nations for not bothering to keep up with some pointless bookkeeping is crazy.
Seconded

Is it really fair to manipulate the results? Especially one with a 7-1-2 record on their (I'm guessing) first try. Just cancel the 22 points they earned? How is that fair?

Oh and I forgot this last thing: Won't Margaret be angry that her will was subverted. She clearly wanted Naboombu Umbongo through.

Is Agroprom a puppet nation of someones?

And I propose that any more bitching from this matter from ANYONE after a consensus has overwhelmingly backed the current precedent should result in a KPB points penalty.

As the time for election of the Baptism of Fire Tournament nears, Universitus University would again like to reiterate its offer to any nation experienced with hosting to co-host this tournament with us. We are very amenable to this possibility and would like to coordinate this event smoothly, and allowing a more experienced co-host to enter the fold would assist us in this regard.

The full text of our hosting bid may be found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13496323&postcount=3211).

We would again like to reiterate our hope that the EWCC looks favorably upon our application to host this great tournament. We thank you again for your consideration.

Dr. Rigorus Satact
President of Universitus University
in The Allied Empire of Jey

Representing:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9921/tsswestaerijg6.jpg

And I propose that any more bitching from this matter from ANYONE after a consensus has overwhelmingly backed the current precedent should result in a KPB points penalty.
Bull. It's about 5-3.

snip
Not you again. :headbang:

...
PLAY-OFF FIXTURES
Fixtures are reversed for Second Leg.
...
The Archregimancy v The Holy Empire
...

Someone doesn't like Arch...LoL, can't wait to see the RP's explaining that match-up.

Sel: I'll be blunt. Maybe you didn't catch the hint.

SHUT UP.

About everything. Including the Jey issue.

Just to be fair, LE:

Please don't feed the trolls (anymore, and that suggestion goes for me as well). Thanks. :)

Also, the preceding BoF hosting bid from Universitus University is noted.

We're not trolling. How is trying to make suggestions that would improve the cup rather than accepting a stupid rule just because "that's how it's been done before" trolling? That's hardly the case at all. Even if the rule doesn't end up being changed that doesn't mean me and Sel or whoever else cares shouldn't argue hard for it being changed. If people didn't work to make the cup better it wouldn't be nearly as good as it is now, but it could still get better. All we're trying to do is show you one way it could get changed for the better.

And to Tynelia, yes people complained when Geisenfried got a spot in World Cup 31. I know I did and there were other people complaining with me, if memory serves. The idea of unbalanced groups, which is exactly what happens when teams get kicked out of the cup like that is blatantly unfair.

Sorry, my last post may not have been clear enough; I was referring primarily to Sel's random hatred of Jey.

As for this other issue, I still have yet to see a convincing argument in favor of changing the rule. But that doesn't mean you can't try. If you'd like to propose that the rule be changed, feel free to do so, and we can vote on it just like we do everything else.

My only real big complaint is when a team qualifies for the WC, then either
a-ceases to exist or b- withdraws (see also WC 31 as Raging Penguins withdrew allowing Quakmybush to qualify). In either case, it should be up to the hosts to determine the appropriate action to take, though in the case of the former, simply allowing the next team in line to qualify is a cop-out, as that team "didn't earn their way in". But if that is the stance the hosts decide to take, then there's little to do about it. If you still have a problem with it, then host the Cup yourself and make you own policy about those situations.

(Granted, if I ever hosted a WC, and thanks to the seemingly head-scratching ability of my computer, which is only 2 1/2 years old, to not be able to use excel or any open source files, so i can't, but if i did, then all matches completed by a ceased nation would be 2-0 forfeits in favor of the opponent, there by ensuring a ceased nation CANNOT qualify for the cup, and ceasing disscussions like this... Sorry about the rant.

Well, my personal opinion is basically this:

No ceased nation should, under any circumstances, qualify for the next stage of the competition. In the event that such event occurs during the knockout stages (highly unlikely, but theoretically possible), this should come in the form of a bye for their opponent. If it's in the first round or in qualifying, then I believe the method for choosing the replacement team should be left up to the hosts.

And I really think we all need a reminder that the entire reason for the existence of the World Cup is RP. The results and the rankings are nice and all, but without the RP, why would any of us even be here? A ceased nation cannot RP unless it is revived. Which is more likely to encourage RP: allowing a nation to progress that absolutely cannot do so, or allowing one to progress that at least can in theory?

The defense rests, Your Honor.

Man, there's a lot of hate around here...

The defense rests, Your Honor.

His Honor has heard the arguments and has subsequently ordered a 4892-hour recess. The Court is adjourned.

And to Tynelia, yes people complained when Geisenfried got a spot in World Cup 31. I know I did and there were other people complaining with me, if memory serves. The idea of unbalanced groups, which is exactly what happens when teams get kicked out of the cup like that is blatantly unfair.
I wasn't experienced enough to be conscious of anything then, but I'm sure I would've complained.

Sorry, my last post may not have been clear enough; I was referring primarily to Sel's random hatred of Jey.

As for this other issue, I still have yet to see a convincing argument in favor of changing the rule. But that doesn't mean you can't try. If you'd like to propose that the rule be changed, feel free to do so, and we can vote on it just like we do everything else.
Eh, I'm not as annoyed as I was when he first came up with that pompous crap.

Well, my personal opinion is basically this:

No ceased nation should, under any circumstances, qualify for the next stage of the competition. In the event that such event occurs during the knockout stages (highly unlikely, but theoretically possible), this should come in the form of a bye for their opponent. If it's in the first round or in qualifying, then I believe the method for choosing the replacement team should be left up to the hosts.

And I really think we all need a reminder that the entire reason for the existence of the World Cup is RP. The results and the rankings are nice and all, but without the RP, why would any of us even be here? A ceased nation cannot RP unless it is revived. Which is more likely to encourage RP: allowing a nation to progress that absolutely cannot do so, or allowing one to progress that at least can in theory?

The defense rests, Your Honor.
So then we should also be knocking out anyone who does not RP. The guy won first place in a group. It's not like 3rd place by a point where I could be a bit more sympathetic, but the scorinator clearly liked that nation. It defeated some well-known teams. I just don't think it's right to go and change the results just because of a programming technicality.

On the note of activity, I haven't logged in in 22 days (I just did). Some people just forget or don't care about the main site as much as the forums.

He (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/search.php?searchid=978104) has RPed before and posted a roster. It's not like he's a signup and gone. He probably just forgot. He signed up over a month ago. He'd probably come back in an instant if he knew he qualified.

His Honor has heard the arguments and has subsequently ordered a 4892-hour recess. The Court is adjourned.

So we'll get a ruling in 203 days or so? (Around Christmas??? what a present!!!)

So then we should also be knocking out anyone who does not RP.

No.

You didn't even read my post, did you?

The Court finds Sel Appa and Vephrall in contempt! Bailiff! Please escort these two... whatever they are ... out of the Court!

So we'll get a ruling in 203 days or so? (Around Christmas??? what a present!!!)

Way to spoil the surprise! :mad:

This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 5 seconds.

Way to spoil the surprise! :mad:

Ain't my fault i can count the days left in the year... :cool:

And I really think we all need a reminder that the entire reason for the existence of the World Cup is RP. The results and the rankings are nice and all, but without the RP, why would any of us even be here? A ceased nation cannot RP unless it is revived. Which is more likely to encourage RP: allowing a nation to progress that absolutely cannot do so, or allowing one to progress that at least can in theory?

Hear Hear, I always thought that part of the World Cup along with associated cups were meant to be RPed. So that is why it amazes me that some teams are able to perform well when they have never RPed in the tournament (some didn't even put in a team roster) for example Agroprom No RP no roster, and I can't even find him in the members list of the Jolt forums (of course the three times i checked I may have missed every time, and could be a puppet).

I also noticed that I performed better in the first half of the qualifiers when i only did a one or two RPs, I then started to RP a lot more and performance went down. I wonder if there is correlation I must investigate and see if more RPs result in poorer results. Now I don't mind going down but when you go down to someone who did nothing in a RPing game and you go worse with an increase of your RPs it makes you stop and think

...

I also noticed that I performed better in the first half of the qualifiers when i only did a one or two RPs, I then started to RP a lot more and performance went down. I wonder if there is correlation I must investigate and see if more RPs result in poorer results. Now I don't mind going down but when you go down to someone who did nothing in a RPing game and you go worse with an increase of your RPs it makes you stop and think

Her name is Margaret, that's why.

I did notice the two "Holy" teams face each other. :p

It does mean one team will progress but eliminates the chance both teams can progress and eliminates the chance no team will progress.

And damn it, Jeru FC had to run into Daehanjeiguk.

Her name is Margaret, that's why.

I know there is some sort of chance involved, but I always thought 9from what I had been told either directly or implied) that having RPed both in quality and quantity changed the chances in your favour.

As the time for election of the Baptism of Fire Tournament nears...

This tends not to be an IC thread, but for an IC Starblaydi response look: here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13602717&postcount=429).

I know there is some sort of chance involved, but I always thought 9from what I had been told either directly or implied) that having RPed both in quality and quantity changed the chances in your favour.

Believe me, Blou, quantity doesn't count... :D

Hey, um, C&M, I hope you don't mind, but that second post of yours broke my window and it's awfully irritating - mind putting a space or something in that long list of descriptors? Thanks.

Really? My apologies. It doesn't do that on mine (clearly) so thanks for pointing that out. *hangs head in window-breakingy shame*


In other news, I am now, like, so totally over my unbecoming grumble of last night. It's now my forthright opinion that this here play-off format is a stroke of genius and should be a lesson to all future hosts.

Plus, our dear friends in Vircais got screwed, which is always amusing. ;)

In other news, I am now, like, so totally over my unbecoming grumble of last night. It's now my forthright opinion that this here play-off format is a stroke of genius and should be a lesson to all future hosts.

I like play-offs, as it keep the Qualification groups more interesting for longer. In an ideal world, the top four or even five out of a group of six would still be (and were, in the case) in with a chance of making the Play-offs, at least, going in to the last few matchdays. Rather than the top two sewing up the Auto-Qualification spots and perhaps third trying to sneak in.

It allows for more RPing, which is what we all like. Plus some crunch matches for future history, which is all good.

Plus, our dear friends in Vircais got screwed, which is always amusing. ;)

*shakes fist at C&M* You'll pay for this one day! Even though you're not actually involved, you'll pay anyway!

well then the folk who disagree with the ruling on poofed nations might consider tossing out some sort of proposal for everyone to vote on as far as 1) keep the current -80 penalty or 2) let the poofed nations through regardless of whether they exist or not or even a 3) hosts' choice. then we can see just much of of a division there is over the issue which may or may not lead to changes. a lot of poeple don't normally post here but doesn't mean they don't have an opinion on it.

that sort of thing still happens right? can;t recall the last time there's been anything to vote on proposal-wise

Yep, just like I said to Az last night. Any of you who disagree, by all means please feel free to draft an official proposal. I think that's the only way we're really going to get this argument resolved.

Way to spoil the surprise! :mad:

Actually, 203 days is only November 1st. But who's counting. :p

And in lighter news...

World Cup 41 signups (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13602963&posted=1) are officially OPEN!

Actually, 203 days is only November 1st. But who's counting. :p

Way to spoil the surprise!

And if you're counting 203 days in base 13 that will get you to March 20, so Happy Spring!

@ Jeruselem: My team didn't blow up the stadium in Casari... it was the Mujeongbu... That said, maybe someone should create and RP a team of terrorists... we've had pretty much everything else...

Han, you just suck to RP with. :p

... That said, maybe someone should create and RP a team of terrorists...

I think that Raging Penguins used to fit that bill.

Wohoo! WC 41! I'm thinking if i should put one of my puppet nations on the list. But i'd better think of a funny theme for them.

That said, maybe someone should create and RP a team of terrorists...

Two words. Antixilean Fatwah.

Question: Has anyone ever used a team of robots controlled by a footie freak or something similar in the world cup?

Oh god, not robots again...

Oh god, not robots again...

Err... Ok, i guess it has been used before. But C&M, are we still up for that friendly?

Question: Has anyone ever used a team of robots controlled by a footie freak or something similar in the world cup?
Many, many times. Most recently with Prux and his robotic ducks in CoH 31 (no, we don't know why either).

Err... Ok, i guess it has been used before. But C&M, are we still up for that friendly?
Indeed you are, he TGed me this afternoon.

also,

PLEASE TG ANY POST-QUALI FRIENDLY REQUESTS TO
KRYTENIA
BY 1800 UTC TUESDAY.

Many, many times. Most recently with Prux and his robotic ducks in CoH 31 (no, we don't know why either).

Well, i figured that out after C&M's Oh god, not robots again... Ok, let me think of another theme...

Indeed you are, he TGed me this afternoon.

Good. ;)

Ok, let me think of another theme...


Monks.

Monks.

Getting close... Ninja-Monks?

Getting close... Ninja-Monks?

Regrettably, I think AIF/Reg might have had that one covered several times. Although in my opinion the WC can never have too many ninjas (way better than those smelly drunken pirates).

Regrettably, I think AIF/Reg might have had that one covered several times. Although in my opinion the WC can never have too many ninjas (way better than those smelly drunken pirates).

Darn... Ninja-monkey-monks?

Darn... Ninja-monkey-monks?

You have my enthusiastic vote of approval, whether it's been done before or not!

You have my enthusiastic vote of approval, whether it's been done before or not!

This could turn out very interesting...

No.

You didn't even read my post, did you?
I did. And if you boot some selective nations because they effectively didn't RP, why not just boot them all?

Hear Hear, I always thought that part of the World Cup along with associated cups were meant to be RPed. So that is why it amazes me that some teams are able to perform well when they have never RPed in the tournament (some didn't even put in a team roster) for example Agroprom No RP no roster, and I can't even find him in the members list of the Jolt forums (of course the three times i checked I may have missed every time, and could be a puppet).

I also noticed that I performed better in the first half of the qualifiers when i only did a one or two RPs, I then started to RP a lot more and performance went down. I wonder if there is correlation I must investigate and see if more RPs result in poorer results. Now I don't mind going down but when you go down to someone who did nothing in a RPing game and you go worse with an increase of your RPs it makes you stop and think
I think Tynelia was researching that a few cups ago.

Question: Has anyone ever used a team of robots controlled by a footie freak or something similar in the world cup?
The HURD?

Indeed you are, he TGed me this afternoon.

also,

PLEASE TG ANY POST-QUALI FRIENDLY REQUESTS TO
KRYTENIA
BY 1800 UTC TUESDAY.
Was the SAP-BOS match ever scored? I might've missed it. In case it wasn't, I'm hosting.

Although in my opinion the WC can never have too many ninjas (way better than those smelly drunken pirates).
AVAST! YE BE LYIN'!

On that note, I have considered in the past having a nation with Pirate and Ninja parties that strongly opposed each other and whatnot. But, I don't like bipartisan domination, so it never went to print.

I did. And if you boot some selective nations because they effectively didn't RP, why not just boot them all?

Well, see, this last sentence shows that you didn't read it. Or at the very least, didn't understand it.

Never have I advocated removing all nations that don't RP. Not once. It's a matter of the nation(s) not being able to RP because they physically cannot post. Effectively it's a forum ban.

I would like to propose friendlie with the following nations

Tynelia
Sel Appa
Bostopia
Zwangzug
The P Islands dont no dude
Prux

Well, see, this last sentence shows that you didn't read it. Or at the very least, didn't understand it.

Never have I advocated removing all nations that don't RP. Not once. It's a matter of the nation(s) not being able to RP because they physically cannot post. Effectively it's a forum ban.
I did read it. I'm extending your logic. You cannot selectively pick one thing and not the other.

Jeruselem will play friendlies if anyone asks. We aren't fussy where.

Well,Play you Jeru ;)

I did read it. I'm extending your logic. You cannot selectively pick one thing and not the other.

You certainly can, Sel, since we're talking about two different situations here. A nation that simply does not RP takes their consequences by relying on their ranking and Margaret to do well; they contribute to the game by simply existing. Whatever their reasoning is (experiments, lack of time, lack of desire, etc.), they have at least provided a team to compete.

A nation that has ceased to exist, on the other hand, provides none of that. As stated before, they can no longer RP. Furthermore, with the deletion of their nation (which, I'll admit can be reversed - I've done it before multiple times), they no longer exist as an entity, for purposes of this game. Therefore, if a host feels they should not be allowed to advance (hence the 80-point penalty rule used both before and currently), it is within their rights.

Additionally, your argument that the forums are not the same as the "actual game" don't hold water either. First, the forums are intended to be an expansion of the NS game, allowing those who take part in it to do things beyond the coding capabilities of the "game" created by Max Barry, which is indicated by the fact that one cannot participate in the forums without a Jolt account created in connection to your NS name.

Second, there would not be a Nationstates World Cup without the existence of a Nationstates. To argue that your participation in the former need not include participation (i.e. logging in once every 28 days, or 60 if you're in vacation mode) in the latter is nonsensical.

So, with that, make your damn proposal to alter this (so that we can shoot it down), and quick beating on poor Seabiscuit. I can barely tell it's a horse's carcass anymore.

I did read it. I'm extending your logic. You cannot selectively pick one thing and not the other.

Well then, neither can you. Why only disqualify nations that haven't RPed? Why not disqualify nations that have RPed too? Isn't such a distinction completely arbitrary?

(Guys, I apologize for momentarily stooping to his level; I'm just trying to prove a point.)

Believe me, Blou, quantity doesn't count... :D

Well surely some sort of RP is better than none at all? Also just to be a bastard if two players had the same quality in their RPs but one had one more than the other then doesn't in that case quality count

Well,Play you Jeru ;)

Offer is extended to current World Cup 40 teams only. :p

Offer is extended to current World Cup 40 teams only. :p

so you rather work your team hard just to draw some team who is better than you ythan beat up on some unranked newbie who has never played an International game in his life:p

Well then, neither can you. Why only disqualify nations that haven't RPed? Why not disqualify nations that have RPed too? Isn't such a distinction completely arbitrary?

(Guys, I apologize for momentarily stooping to his level; I'm just trying to prove a point.)
(and to advance the point any more...)

Why even have qualifiers just let the first 32 teams in... or perhaps not even have a World Cup at all... it is after all entirely arbitary and random... no sense to the scores anyhow.

Newmanistan makes its first "rookie/WC newbie mistake": For some reason I thought today was an off day. I had something good worked out but now it cant apply, dammit!! :headbang: Oh well!

Nethertopia: How about cavemen or some neanderthal type?

Here's a novel idea: A team of 20 or so players that play football/soccer?

Nah, not realitistic enough for NS. :p

<Considers using Sentient IPhones in WC41....NOT>

@ Pazhujeb Islands: I sent you a TG about something - have you read it yet? Also, see my most recent post for more information about something that maybe other people have ignored...

@ Nethertopia: I think that you will find that RP scenarios have been thoroughly exhausted. That said, I personally suggest that you try an RP using the gods and heroes of mythology as members on your team.

Damnit people! What is it with killing people this Cup?

The next person to die is Dazza herself, with as much tension is going around...

(this is me posting after some random person posted some person's obituary in my NFL thread...)

Jeruselem will play friendlies if anyone asks. We aren't fussy where.

I would apply, but considering that I'm already playing the Army team...

Damnit people! What is it with killing people this Cup?

The next person to die is Dazza herself, with as much tension is going around...

Well she should be at least in her mid-80's by now (if Jeruselem is using RL equivalent of 4 years between Cups.)

And I haven't killed anyone. (and my Storyline RP is on hold for XLI, as i competely accidently erased the plot outline I had, and now have to re-write it from scratch.)

Well she should be at least in her mid-80's by now (if Jeruselem is using RL equivalent of 4 years between Cups.)

And I haven't killed anyone. (and my Storyline RP is on hold for XLI, as i competely accidently erased the plot outline I had, and now have to re-write it from scratch.)

YET! YOU HAVEN'T KILLED ANYONE YET!

*runs off with a red ink permanent marker in hand*