NationStates Jolt Archive

well i still have an uncomfirmed pre vs Myed, and a nother one against someone that i dont remember/a open spot until further notice, and a free pre spot

Oh boy, I can see these annoying ads playing havoc with the RP thread display ...

i'll confirm the pre vs taeshan

Cool, thanks Myedvedeya.

I've seen some people say, "time to send it to CH"... Who is CH?

Cool, thanks Myedvedeya.

I've seen some people say, "time to send it to CH"... Who is CH?

New Manhattan, also known as Commerce Heights.

New Manhattan, also known as Commerce Heights.

Ahh, WC host, makes sense. Thanks.

New Manhattan, also known as Commerce Heights.

Or, slightly more detailed:

Commerce Heights (CH) - the original name of the nation in question, as well as the name of its former capital city. Also the player's handle on IRC, which is probably the primary reason many of us still refer to him as CH.
New Manhattan - the forum account used by CH on account of Jolt slaniing up the original; also the location where CH typically receives telegrams.
Unified Capitalizt States (UCS) - the modern name of the nation in question, though I believe even this is beginning to fall into disuse now.
Paripana - the geographical area, a subset of Atlantian Oceania, that is in modern times coterminous with the UCS. This is now becoming the preferred term for the nation in question, as I understand.
Capitalizt SLANI - one of the two major football associations in Paripana, the one directly descended from the original CHFF. Also claims the World Cup titles held by the Bedistan national team (Bedistan being a part of Paripana and no longer a separate nation), though the rest of the world knows that's utter hogwash. :p
Jaseuyeon (with a few alternative representations that I can't be arsed to look up) - the other major FA in Paripana.

Basically it's something so complicated that only CH could have possibly produced it. :p

I couldn't be arsed to go into that much detail even if I knew all of those.

The obvious solution to ads on new pages is to make sure Prux posts first on every page... then he can claim them as RP!

The obvious solution to ads on new pages is to make sure Prux posts first on every page... then he can claim them as RP!

IF Prux remains an independent nation, then you'd probably be right.

Ads inside posts? What's next? Ads in peoples siggies?

We don't have that now, with people linking to their Wiki pages?

Speaking of Prux...

Now that I've had a chance to sleep on it.

Unlike the situation with the nation in question that attempted to have 4 or 5 teams in the cup at the same time, Prux, Green wombat and Qazox have been openly honest about our situation and collectively, we belive that the precedent mentioned by Adihan does not apply to our situtation. We've never explictly tried to hide the fact we are 3 nations on 1 ISP address (though on 2 separate computers, thanks to wireless connections). When asked about it before, we explained the situation and no one appearently had any problems with it.

Adihan, I'm not trying to start anything with you, but may I ask why did you bring it up?

It's the fact that there are three nations RPing on the same IP that is the issue. It is a clear violation of the rules of participating, and I for one believe that the past situation with Dorian and Sonya with her husband AMSV provides the correct course of action. One of the three nations should not be allowed into the tourney.

this is ESF

It's the fact that there are three nations RPing on the same IP that is the issue. It is a clear violation of the rules of participating, and I for one believe that the past situation with Dorian and Sonya with her husband AMSV provides the correct course of action. One of the three nations should not be allowed into the tourney.

this is ESF

If it was a problem, then why hasn't anyone "had a problem" with it for the last 7 or 8 World Cups (or even the last 17?)

I'm not speaking for anyone else, and I hesitate to potentially inflame things again, but it's probably because it's only now that you're trying to wreck the whole World Cup structure that people aren't willing to just accept on good faith that you're all different people.

I'm not speaking for anyone else, and I hesitate to potentially inflame things again, but it's probably because it's only now that you're trying to wreck the whole World Cup structure that people aren't willing to just accept on good faith that you're all different people.

Kelssek, I don't think I am, (unless you are talking to someone else).

the name world cup makes me think of gigantic space going vampires.

or, considering how poluted putting symbolic value ahead of anything gratifying or that makes any kind of sense, i mean, a cup of the world, would anyone in their right mind really want to drink THAT?

Well, Qazox, having reviewed the recent unpleasantness, I have to say it's not just you, so I was a little unfair there.

That said, it's because of this regrettable episode that I'd say the questionability of the several nations posting from your IP has become an issue. Previously, when it wasn't really affecting anything, it wasn't an issue, but it has become one now, rightly or wrongly.

We accept the friendlies with:

Pre-Qualifying: vs Arroza
Mid-Qualifying: vs West Zirconia in Cassadaigua (ok with you?)
Post-Qualifying: at Secristan

After the World Bowl, I have an urge to play Dancougar. You guys care to visit Post-qualifying?


We're available for anyone else who wants to play a team ranked in the low 50's or maybe it's high 40's now.

Okay.. So I'm very new to the World Cup scene, I'll be the first to acknowledge that. But it seems pretty clear to me.
If (bolded because I'm not entirely sure this is the precedent) the precedent is that any given IP address is allowed only two nations in a WC (i.e. a master and puppet) surely that must be followed, no matter how long a supposed violation to this rule has occurred. The fact it's only become an issue now is irrelevant. If it's wrong, it's wrong.

That's just my two cents.

After the World Bowl, I have an urge to play Dancougar. You guys care to visit Post-qualifying?

Send it in!

ediraf to the rescue of The Holy Empire

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm1/Starblayde/AIFWC45.jpg
[/center]

Thanks Star - much appreciated. I'll add it to my roster poster in the next few minutes, and will make it a subject of an RP when the group draw's announced.


And I'm going to politely turn down the offer of a friendly from Bears Armed. I agree that a match between the ursines and the cavemen would offer excellent RP opportunities, but I won't have time to do it justice, have already promised Hypocria a friendly with each of my nations, and am currently raising a metaphorical eyebrow at the recent extraordinary proliferation of friendlies anyway. My apologies - no offence in any way intended, and here's hoping we'll be drawn together in the qualification rounds so we get the opportunity anyway!

Certainly no offence would be taken in this corner should you wish to withdraw the Holy Empire from friendly action against the Hyppos. We have other games arranged and i’d hate to think i’d prevented a Bears/Cavemen smackdown. Because that’s an rp i’d definitely read!

we still have a mid versus SN that is unconfirmed and an open pre spot

My personal opinion about this whole spiel...

Qazox is the one who RPs the most;
Prux uses the same IP address, if not the same computer, but manages his team in a completely different manner;
Green Wombat hardly RPs.

Meh, why bother with it? I think it's clear and apparent that they're not the same person (at least I hope not... otherwise, we've got some issues with schizophrenia here...). I think the problem we have is when people attempt to use multiple accounts to stack the numbers in their favor, which I think everyone is firmly against. And while our only sure-fire method of determining who's who and who's not is using IP addresses, I'm fairly confident that the majority of the people who are on NS are not so retarded that they're going to waste 23 hours a day trying to cheat on an online, not-for-real game-within-a-game, just to win that game-within-a-game-within-a-game. And for the random few who are that retarded, there are various mechanisms already in place designed to weed them out.

Personally, I think that people who can definitively prove their mutual existence as two (or more) distinct individuals should have an opportunity to RP, even if they are using the same computer. Of course, the burden of the proof rests upon them, but as I think we've experienced in our most recent run with some immature individual(s), the NSWC community at large bears the authority and responsibility to regulate who can or cannot participate. Of course, we've got to agree on a common method of regulation... but that aside...


*me comes over and swaps Peisandros two cents, whilst running away*

I'm still trying to arrange a pre-Q with Kelssek. I'm willing to play that one away and perhaps have the next time we play a friendly be on one of my grounds.

Oh yes, Jeruselem wants a friendly with it's own puppet Jeru FC. :p

Oh yes, Jeruselem wants a friendly with it's own puppet Jeru FC. :p
Anything I can do... :p

The Holy Empire could use this
http://jmayers.blogspot.com/2008/01/video-cavemen-invent-soccer-after-fire.html

:)

The Holy Empire could use this
http://jmayers.blogspot.com/2008/01/video-cavemen-invent-soccer-after-fire.html

:)

Ug! This not rock! This shiny head-bone!

Ug! This not rock! This shiny head-bone!

It's a compromise between a rock and hollow plastic football. It's sorta round and it's hollow.
The Aztecs played a form of football using human skulls.

It's a compromise between a rock and hollow plastic football. It's sorta round and it's hollow.
The Aztecs played a form of football using human skulls.
The Aztecs did a lot of things with human skulls. Doesn't make it right.

Out of curiosity, why were the current policies on nation control instituted? Was it more to ensure that nobody had too much power when it came to voting? Or too much likelihood of in-tournament success? Or something else? For what it's worth, I actually can't find any such codified rules on NSWiki, but maybe I'm missing something.

Also, did D&S and ASMV share one WCC vote? How did that work? If we needed some compromise for the current case, perhaps voting power would be one way to go at it.

The potentially broad problem as I see it is that there's no way to prove much of anything. As the recent Questille/Los Plasmos/@@PUPPETNAME@@ incident indicates, without moderator assistance, we can't convincingly demonstrate that two nations belong to the same user. And there's no guarantee the moderators will step in again. On the other hand, Qazox and co. have articulated the fact that they share a computer since well before there was any issue. To me, this ironically is evidence in their "favor"...if this makes any sense? In any case, even if this rule was codified, we're not always going to be able to enforce it. Which is sort of problematic.

I'm normally about as letter-of-the-law as you get. However, I think in this case, we may need to at least consider more of a spirit of the law interpretation.

ASMV and Dorian and Sonya went along with the puppet and master limitations set forth. They also explained the fact they're husband and wife and were sharing a computer to RP.

Questille or whatever the hell the guy's main nation is seemingly tried to get one over on us with all the puppet sign ups. That not only violated whatever codified or unwritten policies we had in force regarding puppet use, it also violated general mores related to RP here on NationStates. Thus, his puppets were rightly tossed from this competition.

With respect to Qazox, Prux and Green wombat, I'm not sure about the whole IP address situation. NS moderators have said they have tools that go beyond IP addresses that tell them when a player is trying to skirt a forum ban (to use a common example). Unless I'm wrong or unless things have changed drastically since I worked in a computer lab (and they may well have, mind), each computer has its own unique IP address or "signature" for the Web.

Thus, if Qazox and Prux, for instance, use two different computers, they theoretically should have two separate IP addresses even on a wireless network. Then, let's say Qazox and Green wombat use the same computer for RPing. If Prux's and Qazox's computers have different IP addresses, then we don't run into this issue of puppet and master wanking, so long as neither Qazox nor Green wombat try to use puppets over and above their own nations.

However, let's get away from the technology for a second since that seems to be an ancillary argument. The crux of the issue in my opinion is whether or not Qazox, Prux and Green wombat have deceived us, either deliberately or otherwise. My answer for that is no. Each player brings a different writing style that I'd consider fairly obvious in each one's IC and OOC posts. Of course, the fact that I used to edit for a living probably helps my ability to tell they're different players. However, if we accept as truth that Qazox, Prux and Green wombat have been up front with us about their computer and living situation, I think we ought to cut the three of them some slack, allowing for their explanations.

In the case of Questille/whatever the hell his main nation is, he was not nearly as up front with us about his use of puppets as Qazox, Prux and Green wombat have been. Thus, while I favour cutting Qazox and company slack, I favour holding Questille to the rules as they've been written.

I'm sure there's a good rationale for the rules as they're written. In fact, I endorse the fact that we have a rule set in place to prevent the possibility of cheating in this game within a game. However, if there's one thing two and a half years of newspaper work and the perspective of life have taught me, it's that rules aren't black and white. There are plenty of shades of grey out there. I think in this case, Qazox, Prux and Green wombat fall into that "shades of grey" category.

I mean if tried to enforce strict hard set-in-concrete rules without any discretion here, the whole NSWC would just collapse in a heap. There's always grey areas with rules. In the real world, people share Internet connections and we can't have everyone with different IP address.

Jeruselem, did you see my post-qualifying friendly request (in Jeruselem) which is now several pages back or did I miss the replay with amid all this other stuff?

Jeruselem, did you see my post-qualifying friendly request (in Jeruselem) which is now several pages back or did I miss the replay with amid all this other stuff?

I think I missed it as it got buried ... I'll just say OUI!

I'm normally about as letter-of-the-law as you get. However, I think in this case, we may need to at least consider more of a spirit of the law interpretation.

ASMV and Dorian and Sonya went along with the puppet and master limitations set forth. They also explained the fact they're husband and wife and were sharing a computer to RP.

Questille or whatever the hell the guy's main nation is seemingly tried to get one over on us with all the puppet sign ups. That not only violated whatever codified or unwritten policies we had in force regarding puppet use, it also violated general mores related to RP here on NationStates. Thus, his puppets were rightly tossed from this competition.

With respect to Qazox, Prux and Green wombat, I'm not sure about the whole IP address situation. NS moderators have said they have tools that go beyond IP addresses that tell them when a player is trying to skirt a forum ban (to use a common example). Unless I'm wrong or unless things have changed drastically since I worked in a computer lab (and they may well have, mind), each computer has its own unique IP address or "signature" for the Web.

Thus, if Qazox and Prux, for instance, use two different computers, they theoretically should have two separate IP addresses even on a wireless network. Then, let's say Qazox and Green wombat use the same computer for RPing. If Prux's and Qazox's computers have different IP addresses, then we don't run into this issue of puppet and master wanking, so long as neither Qazox nor Green wombat try to use puppets over and above their own nations.

However, let's get away from the technology for a second since that seems to be an ancillary argument. The crux of the issue in my opinion is whether or not Qazox, Prux and Green wombat have deceived us, either deliberately or otherwise. My answer for that is no. Each player brings a different writing style that I'd consider fairly obvious in each one's IC and OOC posts. Of course, the fact that I used to edit for a living probably helps my ability to tell they're different players. However, if we accept as truth that Qazox, Prux and Green wombat have been up front with us about their computer and living situation, I think we ought to cut the three of them some slack, allowing for their explanations.

In the case of Questille/whatever the hell his main nation is, he was not nearly as up front with us about his use of puppets as Qazox, Prux and Green wombat have been. Thus, while I favour cutting Qazox and company slack, I favour holding Questille to the rules as they've been written.

I'm sure there's a good rationale for the rules as they're written. In fact, I endorse the fact that we have a rule set in place to prevent the possibility of cheating in this game within a game. However, if there's one thing two and a half years of newspaper work and the perspective of life have taught me, it's that rules aren't black and white. There are plenty of shades of grey out there. I think in this case, Qazox, Prux and Green wombat fall into that "shades of grey" category.

As far as I'm aware, I don't believe that there is any law pertaining to the manner masters and puppets are formally described. The only concrete discriminatory rule says that any individual may not own more than one puppet in the WCC at any given time; how we determine a puppet relationship as far as the rules go has not been explored legally yet. I think the use of IP addresses has only been the precedent because it's really been the only thing that we could use (at admin discretion, of course) to minimally determine who was most likely or not to be the same individual. And as we've noted, there are exceptions.


On another note, instead of big rock balls, how about using giant balls of solid latex rubber. I can guarantee a very exciting match with that.

Well, Qazox, having reviewed the recent unpleasantness, I have to say it's not just you, so I was a little unfair there.

That said, it's because of this regrettable episode that I'd say the questionability of the several nations posting from your IP has become an issue. Previously, when it wasn't really affecting anything, it wasn't an issue, but it has become one now, rightly or wrongly.

My question still is, Why is this an issue all of a sudden?


Personally, I think that people who can definitively prove their mutual existence as two (or more) distinct individuals should have an opportunity to RP, even if they are using the same computer. Of course, the burden of the proof rests upon them, but as I think we've experienced in our most recent run with some immature individual(s), the NSWC community at large bears the authority and responsibility to regulate who can or cannot participate. Of course, we've got to agree on a common method of regulation... but that aside...


I belive that we have proven that. GW and Qazox came into existance approximately at the same time (Jan. 2006) and Prux came by a little over a year ago (Just check those nation's Join dates...people).

SO... GREEN WOMBAT and QAZOX have been around for the same amount of time (so technically you can't say which one came first) and Prux came 3rd of the three. Though as stated before in this very thread about 6 or 7 months ago, (and yesterday) we use 2 computers with wireless internet connections that happen to share an ISP address (due to RL issues). We cannot afford TWO separate DSL Lines, and this is the only way we can have our computers have internet access and still be separate accounts, separate everything (If we knew how to implement ISP masks, WHICH would be a major violation of the rules, probably, then this probably wouldn't be a problem.)

Just because 1 nation decided to try to sign up 4 nations at the same time we all feel we're being unduly prosecuted because of it. Like I've said before, IF NO ONE HAD A PROBLEM WITH IT SINCE WORLD CUP 27, (or since Prux joined), WHY IS IT A PROBLEM NOW?

We've not tried to hide anything.
We've not tried to unduely influence the World Cup. (based on our collective results, if we were, we're doing a horrible job of it! :D)
Anytime someone has asked, we've been forthcoming about the reasons why.

So once again, WHY IS IT A PROBLEM NOW?

And Sarzonia Re:your post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14551615&postcount=8282).

Thank you.

I do apologize if my above response seems angry. All I am doing is defending and explaining myself (and my brothers' accounts, by extent) and if it seems angry and defensive, I aopologize if you take offense to the tone.

Qazox it's always been a problem, it's just being addressed now..

Besides, With the limited amount of time I usually have to be on a computer due to my job (Mostly 11:00pm to 2:00 am) do you really think that I (meaning Qazox), would care or want to try to create 3 separate RP's for all the World Cup, and any other competitions we've all participated in? I do have some sembelence of a life, you know.

Qazox it's always been a problem, it's just being addressed now..

No, it hasn't always been a problem. Other than "Questille" this WC cycle, since I've been here (for over 3 years), there has not been a problem with this situation. Other than "Questille", I can't remember anyone else attempting to do what he/she did; other than Spaam, with East Spaam, but that was a withdrawl of a puppet so that its master could qualify for the WC, an entirely different situation.

The ASMV/D&S situation is about as close as I can remember to there being a 'problem'.

Unless I'm wrong or unless things have changed drastically since I worked in a computer lab (and they may well have, mind), each computer has its own unique IP address or "signature" for the Web.

Not if they're behind a router. Two computers hooked up to a router technically share the same IP, the one assigned to the modem, and the router sets up its own phantom IP space to route traffic to the correct computer. Each computer can be identified by their MAC address, which is hard-coded onto the network card.

(As it turns out, the "IPs and people are not 1-to-1" argument has been incredibly useful in defending against RIAA lawsuits.)

Also, it's not necessarily true that everybody's ISP assigns them a static IP. Comcast could decide tomorrow that my IP is going to be different and there's nothing I can really do about that.

No, it hasn't always been a problem. Other than "Questille" this WC cycle, since I've been here (for over 3 years), there has not been a problem with this situation. Other than "Questille", I can't remember anyone else attempting to do what he/she did; other than Spaam, with East Spaam, but that was a withdrawl of a puppet so that its master could qualify for the WC, an entirely different situation.

The ASMV/D&S situation is about as close as I can remember to there being a 'problem'.

I was just being pedantic.. So yeah, nevermind lol.

Thanks for that point Dancougar, but you lost me after "phantom IP space", though I believe I understand what you're saying. We do have one modem, and 2 wireless connections off of it, which would explain the one ISP addy for all three of us. (Wish we could get separate lines for each of us, but... its the economy)

I was just being pedantic.. So yeah, nevermind lol.


None taken. :wink:

2 things.

1)- To put my two cents in, for what they might be worth (i.e. probably not much), I'm with Qazox on this one. It's never been a problem before, and they are obviously different people for a myriad of reasons. Since there is no explicit rule about IP's, only a precedent from a long time ago that could theoretically be used to resolve a type of cheating situation that is pretty clearly not going on, why should we penalize any of these nations for happening to live in the same place?

2)- What was the "Questille" thing that occured, I believe I was away during that period.

2)- What was the "Questille" thing that occured, I believe I was away during that period.

About a month ago, when the BoF signups were just starting up.

Thanks for that point Dancougar, but you lost me after "phantom IP space", though I believe I understand what you're saying. We do have one modem, and 2 wireless connections off of it, which would explain the one ISP addy for all three of us. (Wish we could get separate lines for each of us, but... its the economy)

Excellent, then you're in exactly the situation I'm describing. I will attempt a more accessible analogy. We model the internet using Snail Mail. Messages are letters, and IPs are the addresses written on the envelope.

Situation 1: Qazox, Green Wombat, and Prux are using the same computer

In this scenario, they all live in the same house. Whenever they want to post to Jolt, they write their letter and mail it out. Their return addresses are all the same: the street address of the house. Jolt sends a letter back to each one acknowledging that they received the post. The three collect all the mail and sift through it manually to pick out what's theirs.

Situation 2: Qazox, Green Wombat, and Prux use separate computers behind a router

This is what Qazox says they have. In this case, they all live in the same building, but it's an apartment. And they each have separate apartments. Whenever they want to mail Jolt, they write their letter and put just their apartment number as the return address. (I know this is silly, but bear with me.) The thing is, apartment numbers are not globally valid. If Jolt saw that and wanted to send a reply, they wouldn't know what to do.

Enter a mediator. The router will be represented by the nice old lady at the apartment's front desk, call her "Phyllis." The three drop off their letters with her. She looks at the return addresses, tut-tuts, and readdresses them. She writes the apartment's return address on all three and sends them out. She files away in memory that "Qazox equals Apartment X, Green Wombat is Y, and Pruz is Z." When the replies all come back, she looks at the names on each reply and converts them to the correct apartment number. Then the mail gets where it's supposed to go. This is the phantom IP space in action.

Here's where the problem comes in - from Jolt's point of view, these two different scenarios are equivalent. It can't tell if they are sharing one terminal of are each using their own terminals behind a router. This is also why RIAA cases ran into a dead end. They have to prove that it was you who downloaded the files on your network, not your friend who just came over and connected, or that jerk next door who's been stealing your wireless, or that guy with the iPhone who wandered past your house one day, or...

Not that it really matters that much to the situation, but I'd just like to say that I agree wholeheartedly with Sarzonia's statement above.

While I'm pretty sure we can't prove without a doubt that Qazox, Prux, and Green wombat are all different people, we similarly cannot prove that they're all the same person. Like Sarzo said, there are three distinct writing styles in use that I've noticed, which in my mind certainly makes it at the very least plausible that they are not the same. Therefore I'm willing to assume good faith and be content with the situation being left as it is. In my opinion, at least, there is no problem.

*throws a 0.05-len piece on the ground*

On a lighter note, It's great to Raging Penguins (or Forn Parts) back with his/her/its insanity. A bit of a warning to those not used to an RP from R.P... you might need a drink before, during and after reading one.

On a lighter note, It's great to see Raging Penguins (or Forn Parts) back with his/her/its insanity. A bit of a warning to those not used to an RP from R.P... you might need a drink before, during and after reading one.It's nice to see that someone still remembers me!

Good to see you still playing, Qazox. You're the one team other than Quakmybush that I could recall off the top of my head when I first rediscovered NS. I couldn't even remember what Milchama's name was until I saw the name written, and I know the guy in RL.

a Typical R.P. rp:

Link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11880277&postcount=522)

be scared, be very scared.

It's nice to see that someone still remembers me!

Good to see you still playing, Qazox. You're the one team other than Quakmybush that I could recall off the top of my head when I first rediscovered NS. I couldn't even remember what Milchama's name was until I saw the name written, and I know the guy in RL.

I remember you ...

Your president's opinion on the Qazox situation, for what it's worth...

I have some considerable sympathy for Qaz here, and I believe that he has some right to feel aggrieved. He and his two brothers have been participating together for a long time now, they've always been very open about their situation, and no one has raised this for a very long time.

I'm not going to say that concerns were never raised. I lack the time to hunt it down, and it may be in the old discussion thread anyway, but I think there was some discussion of the relationship with one of his brothers when Green Wombat or Prux first signed up for the WC, but whatever we said back then, we clearly decided not to enforce an ASMV/D&S situation on the Qazox family.

Han has sent me a compendium of our rules, which I plan on posting on-line (perhaps on NS Wiki) once we complete the vote on EWCC reform (WCC members - you still have time to vote!). As far as I can tell, we have no specific rule to deal with this situation.

Our rules clearly state that no WC participant may have more than one puppet. The rule about shared ISP connections, however, is not a World Cup rule, but rather a NationStates Moderation rule that we have inconsistently used as the basis for deciding whether nations that claim separate identity are puppets of each other or not (The Questille case is different in that the 3-4 nations involved never claimed separate identity).

There is nothing in our own rules requiring us to follow the NS method of deciding what constitutes a puppet. Past precedent is conflicting; in the ASMV/D&S case we followed the NS method closely. However, I would strongly argue that the Qazox/Prux/GW case is itself a past precedent of far longer standing (in terms of Cups applied to) and therefore of arguably greater force than the other precedent. In the Qaz case, that precedent is to allow ourselves the latitude to decide these issues on an ad hoc basis, and to allow multiple users from the same ISP address where consensus holds that the individuals concerned are clearly separate individuals - as it does here.

In my considered opinion, by established precedent, we should allow all three nations to continue to participate. My opinion has no binding force on current or future WC Hosts, but I hope it will nonetheless be taken into consideration.

To those of you arguing for a strict application of the rules, I ask you to consider whether your commendable desire to see our rules enforced may not be counterproductive in this instance. Surely we want to be encouraging participation rather than forcing established nations to drop out? What are we going to achieve by doing that?

Furthermore, I don't really understand some of this implicit hostility towards Qazox. I'm sure many of you have been mildly irritated by his occasional spamming of the discussion thread (though recently he's been no worse than Jeru), or his past promotion of the Women's World Cup, but that in no way justifies what increasingly seems to me to be a wholly unwarranted level of targeted hostility towards him. He's recently shown a commendable interest in becoming more involved in hosting WCC tournaments at a time when decent hosts are increasingly hard to come by, and I can't see that he's going to be encouraged to follow through with that interest by people nit-picking over the ISP address of his brothers.


PS: Welcome back to Forn Parts / Raging Penguins! Here's hoping you're drawn against Prux, the Ursines, or the Cavemen for maximum demented RP potential....

TG sent regarding friendlies.

The good news is that three of our friendly overtures (no, not that kind of friendly overture, Cassadaigua) have been accepted.

The only problem is, they're all mid-qualifying, which is probably against the rules. So if any of you (C&M, Krytenia, Cassadaigua) are able to move a fixture to pre- or post-qualifying, then I would be very grateful.

Thanks ever so...

And I'm going to politely turn down the offer of a friendly from Bears Armed. I agree that a match between the ursines and the cavemen would offer excellent RP opportunities, but I won't have time to do it justice, have already promised Hypocria a friendly with each of my nations, and am currently raising a metaphorical eyebrow at the recent extraordinary proliferation of friendlies anyway. My apologies - no offence in any way intended, and here's hoping we'll be drawn together in the qualification rounds so we get the opportunity anyway!Hokay, I understand.
And let's hope that that draw happens, yes. (This would be a lot better against the cavemen than it would have been against last Cup's "worst nightmares", because the Bears' likeliest response to seeing those would actually have been a berserk charge... leading to most of my team getting red cards, and most of the players whom you were fielding inside those illusions getting hospitalised! Well, unless we were playing in The Dreamed Realm and its metaphysical filter against such actions cut in in time...)

Our list of friendlies (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14546448&postcount=8231) has been updated, and there are still three slots open... one 'Pre-' & two 'Post-'.
Dancougar, if you have a matching slot free, do you want to see if one or the other of us can manage a win against the other this time (rather than just a draw, as in the World Cup's group stage)?
Anybody else?

And I'm going to politely turn down the offer of a friendly from Bears Armed. I agree that a match between the ursines and the cavemen would offer excellent RP opportunities, but I won't have time to do it justice, have already promised Hypocria a friendly with each of my nations

Certainly no offence would be taken in this corner should you wish to withdraw the Holy Empire from friendly action against the Hyppos. We have other games arranged and i’d hate to think i’d prevented a Bears/Cavemen smackdown. Because that’s an rp i’d definitely read!

Seriously I would never stand in the way of a good rp and the rp potential of AIF v Bears Armed is off the scale.

Go for it! :)

Seriously I would never stand in the way of a good rp and the rp potential of AIF v Bears Armed is off the scale.

Go for it! :)


And let's hope that that draw happens, yes. (This would be a lot better against the cavemen than it would have been against last Cup's "worst nightmares", because the Bears' likeliest response to seeing those would actually have been a berserk charge... leading to most of my team getting red cards, and most of the players whom you were fielding inside those illusions getting hospitalised! Well, unless we were playing in The Dreamed Realm and its metaphysical filter against such actions cut in in time...)

Oh, alright then - you've both talked me into it.

Holy Empire v. Bears Armed (venue of your choice) confirmed.

Remaining Hypocria/Dreamed Realm friendly, in the form of Hypocria v. Archregimancy also confirmed.

I'll leave you two to make the necessary confirmations with the hosts.

Oh, alright then - you've both talked me into it.

Holy Empire v. Bears Armed (venue of your choice) confirmed.

'Pre-qualifying' okay, or would you prefer 'post-qualifying' ? We'll come to your ground, I think, and see no problem in using rocks rather than conventional footballs...

'Pre-qualifying' okay, or would you prefer 'post-qualifying' ? We'll come to your ground, I think, and see no problem in using rocks rather than conventional footballs...

Not fussed - you choose.

Oh, and I've finally managed to find the time to post in my Cannibalism RP again (with apologies for the off-topic sentence).

Not fussed - you choose.In that case I'd like to wait for a day, to see whether Dancougar [a] is interested in a friendly with the Bears and has a preference for when this occurs, to decide: Okay?

[b]Edit: That's now been settled _
Dancougar, post-qualifiers.
The Holy Empire, pre-qualifiers.


Oh, and I've finally managed to find the time to post in my Cannibalism RP again (with apologies for the off-topic sentence).
*(goes to look...)*

we still have a mid versus SN that is unconfirmed and an open pre spot

Apologies for the delay, we'd be happy for a friendly with you.

I'll leave it to you to decide who's at home and let the hosts know if that's alright.

Dancougar, if you have a matching slot free, do you want to see if one or the other of us can manage a win against the other this time (rather than just a draw, as in the World Cup's group stage)?

Let's see, right now I'm only at one pre and one post, so you can take your pick of whatever's more convenient. Symmetry among my own schedule is no concern. Students who have seen Bears Armed in action, and were following the BoF thread, have proposed that the teams do battle over "Ye Olde Baptifm of Fire Merchandife," which will take the form of a T-Shirt (or a picture one) mounted on a stick or other display stand so that it may be easily paraded around.

Pre: v Newmanistan - Golden Ambiguous Bird on Skates (I think it's home this time. You beat me 2-0 in Tundra Falls last time, right?)

Post: @ Cassadaigua (Any ideas for a challenge cup? Sadly, not much history between us as of yet.)

Let's see, right now I'm only at one pre and one post, so you can take your pick of whatever's more convenient. Symmetry among my own schedule is no concern. 'Post-', then. I'll let you choose where it takes place.
Students who have seen Bears Armed in action, and were following the BoF thread, have proposed that the teams do battle over "Ye Olde Baptifm of Fire Merchandife," which will take the form of a T-Shirt (or a picture one) mounted on a stick or other display stand so that it may be easily paraded around.Okay. :)

Not fussed - you choose.In that case I'd like to wait for a day, to see whether Dancougar [a] is interested in a friendly with the Bears and has a preference for when this occurs, to decide: Okay?And as Dancougar has answered, and I've replied to them, this means that our match against [b]The Holy Empire will be a 'Pre-qualifiers' one.

Edit: Our list of friendlies (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14546448&postcount=8231) has been updated, again, and I'm aboiut to TG the host about them (apart from the Dancougar match, which I know he's already been notified about) in case any of the other teams involved haven't yet done so.

We have one 'post-qualifiers' slot left, if anybody else is interested...

'Post-', then. I'll let you choose where it takes place.

In an effort to impress the voters and boost our RPI, Dancougar will travel to Bears Armed.

Wait, it doesn't work like that? Oh... well, we'll do it anyway. It's been TGed.

The good news is that three of our friendly overtures (no, not that kind of friendly overture, Cassadaigua) have been accepted.

The only problem is, they're all mid-qualifying, which is probably against the rules.
It isn’t against the rules, though of course you can spread them out if you want to.

The good news is that three of our friendly overtures (no, not that kind of friendly overture, Cassadaigua) have been accepted.

The only problem is, they're all mid-qualifying, which is probably against the rules. So if any of you (C&M, Krytenia, Cassadaigua) are able to move a fixture to pre- or post-qualifying, then I would be very grateful.

Thanks ever so...

There is no codified rule; usual convention is no more than three per.

Main reason why I have nine friendlies :D

Oh, the BoF has finished. Time to create a squad for the World Cup.

Well done to EDWARD CITY for winning the BoF.

There is no codified rule; usual convention is no more than three per.

Main reason why I have nine friendlies :D

How did I miss that?

Oh well, then they stand. Anyone else interested pre- or post?

In an effort to impress the voters and boost our RPI, Dancougar will travel to Bears Armed.

Wait, it doesn't work like that? Oh... well, we'll do it anyway. It's been TGed.

Wait, now I have to worry about my weak out of conference schedule too?

Man, I knew I shouldn't have scheduled Jacksonville State.

How did I miss that?

Oh well, then they stand. Anyone else interested pre- or post?

Sure, we'd love to play a post friendly against you.

Oh, the BoF has finished. Time to create a squad for the World Cup.

Been there, done that, got Star to design the T-shirts.

Wait, now I have to worry about my weak out of conference schedule too?

Man, I knew I shouldn't have scheduled Jacksonville State.

On that note, remind me never to schedule a friendly against Green Wombat. That just feels unlucky for some reason that I can't quite put my finger on...

Pre: v Newmanistan - Golden Ambiguous Bird on Skates (I think it's home this time. You beat me 2-0 in Tundra Falls last time, right?)


Yeah, the series shifts to Dancougar this year!

Wait, now I have to worry about my weak out of conference schedule too?

Man, I knew I shouldn't have scheduled Jacksonville State.

Hey, Jacksonville State's gotta move up in the rankings too, ya know.

Sincerely,

High Point

In an effort to impress the voters and boost our RPI, Dancougar will travel to Bears Armed.

Wait, it doesn't work like that? Oh... well, we'll do it anyway. It's been TGed.

I think I have the toughest OOC SoS with Starblaydia, Kura-Pelland, SLANI, Septentronia, and Ad'ihan! :p

Pshaw, they aren't that tough for ya ESF! :p

I'm still waiting on Kelssek to confirm a pre-qualifying friendly. Otherwise, I've got two friendlies in mid qualifying and post-qualifying (Taeshan and Yafor II)

[center]Post moved from its original position. Until further notice, I will not be posting any meaningful content in any post numbered 15n + 1, for any integer value of n.


If there was any doubt you're an engineer, it's gone after that post. :)

If there was any doubt you're an engineer, it's gone after that post. :)

Eh, real engineers go to places like Rensselaer or MIT. He goes to Georgia Tech. :p

Eh, real engineers go to places like Rensselaer or MIT. He goes to Georgia Tech. :p

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd350/DJ_Novakain/HA_HA_HA_OH_WOW.jpg

Dude looks like he's trying to outdrink a bear in Myedvedeya.

Wait, now I have to worry about my weak out of conference schedule too?

Man, I knew I shouldn't have scheduled Jacksonville State.

Shoula scheduled Western Kentucky like I did! only cost me 0.333 BCS points! LOL

Your president's opinion on the Qazox situation, for what it's worth...

I have some considerable sympathy for Qaz here, and I believe that he has some right to feel aggrieved. He and his two brothers have been participating together for a long time now, they've always been very open about their situation, and no one has raised this for a very long time.

I'm not going to say that concerns were never raised. I lack the time to hunt it down, and it may be in the old discussion thread anyway, but I think there was some discussion of the relationship with one of his brothers when Green Wombat or Prux first signed up for the WC, but whatever we said back then, we clearly decided not to enforce an ASMV/D&S situation on the Qazox family.

Han has sent me a compendium of our rules, which I plan on posting on-line (perhaps on NS Wiki) once we complete the vote on EWCC reform (WCC members - you still have time to vote!). As far as I can tell, we have no specific rule to deal with this situation.

Our rules clearly state that no WC participant may have more than one puppet. The rule about shared ISP connections, however, is not a World Cup rule, but rather a NationStates Moderation rule that we have inconsistently used as the basis for deciding whether nations that claim separate identity are puppets of each other or not (The Questille case is different in that the 3-4 nations involved never claimed separate identity).

There is nothing in our own rules requiring us to follow the NS method of deciding what constitutes a puppet. Past precedent is conflicting; in the ASMV/D&S case we followed the NS method closely. However, I would strongly argue that the Qazox/Prux/GW case is itself a past precedent of far longer standing (in terms of Cups applied to) and therefore of arguably greater force than the other precedent. In the Qaz case, that precedent is to allow ourselves the latitude to decide these issues on an ad hoc basis, and to allow multiple users from the same ISP address where consensus holds that the individuals concerned are clearly separate individuals - as it does here.

In my considered opinion, by established precedent, we should allow all three nations to continue to participate. My opinion has no binding force on current or future WC Hosts, but I hope it will nonetheless be taken into consideration.

To those of you arguing for a strict application of the rules, I ask you to consider whether your commendable desire to see our rules enforced may not be counterproductive in this instance. Surely we want to be encouraging participation rather than forcing established nations to drop out? What are we going to achieve by doing that?

Furthermore, I don't really understand some of this implicit hostility towards Qazox. I'm sure many of you have been mildly irritated by his occasional spamming of the discussion thread (though recently he's been no worse than Jeru), or his past promotion of the Women's World Cup, but that in no way justifies what increasingly seems to me to be a wholly unwarranted level of targeted hostility towards him. He's recently shown a commendable interest in becoming more involved in hosting WCC tournaments at a time when decent hosts are increasingly hard to come by, and I can't see that he's going to be encouraged to follow through with that interest by people nit-picking over the ISP address of his brothers.


PS: Welcome back to Forn Parts / Raging Penguins! Here's hoping you're drawn against Prux, the Ursines, or the Cavemen for maximum demented RP potential....

Thank you.

Besides this thing going on has actually given me an RPing idea or two for this upcoming WC...

Dude looks like he's trying to outdrink a bear in Myedvedeya.

and we all know how trying to outdrink a 1500 pound creature will work out.

Seriously schedule a really bad team that way when you beat the crap out of them when teams look at the score theyll think how cool of a victory you got before they realised you were playing the Citadel in a 100- deathamtch. (actuually with the Air Fiorce i shalacked Wyoming like that, but another time)

and we all know how trying to outdrink a 1500 pound creature will work out.

Unless you're Walter Hudson (http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2004-05/12573835.JPG).

Then again, they call it morbidly obese for a reason.

If there was any doubt you're an engineer, it's gone after that post. :)

Heh, and yet I'm actually not in the College of Engineering. Then again, I suppose the College of Computing is just as bad. :p

Eh, real engineers go to places like Rensselaer or MIT. He goes to Georgia Tech. :p

Don't make me come over there. :p (And that's easier than you think, as just a couple months from now I'm only going to be one county away. You've been warned.)

Unless you're Walter Hudson (http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2004-05/12573835.JPG).

Then again, they call it morbidly obese for a reason.
I want that man on The Team. He'd be the star Defender.

Perhaps the Dreamed Realm can help you there. Hudson's been dead over a decade now. :p

Unless you're Walter Hudson (http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2004-05/12573835.JPG).

Then again, they call it morbidly obese for a reason.

that drinking contest would run the bar out of liquor before it was over...

Perhaps the Dreamed Realm can help you there. Hudson's been dead over a decade now. :p
Nah, I've already got a corpse on my team. If the blubber's been preserved well...

Hey, so I know this was discussed earlier, but fuck those ads are annoying.

Shoula scheduled Western Kentucky like I did! only cost me 0.333 BCS points! LOL

I try not to play Red Drank U. :p

Heh, and yet I'm actually not in the College of Engineering. Then again, I suppose the College of Computing is just as bad. :p


No, it's worse. :p

and now for the moment none of you have waited for the Qazox NSWCBCS rankings!


Starblaydia .852
Cafundeu .838
Valanora .8171
Bostopia .8167
Demot .713
Daehanjeiguk .585
Vephrall .523
Milchama .501
Dancougar .483
Capitalizt SLANI .476
Yafor II .385
Jeruselem .370


As usual the NSWCBCS standings are comprised of the following:

25% KPB rank
25% Most recent World Cup finish
40% Cotton
5% Polyester
5% Nylon

Some of you may remember a little kerfuffle during the sign-up stage for WC44 when Spaam objected to my advertising the NSWC in NS2 while we decided what relationship - if any - the NSWC would have with NS2.

After Zwangzug pointed out that NS2 nations couldn't sign up directly for the original NSWC, and had to start an entirely new forum account to join our tournament, I let the issue drop. I still had in the back of my mind the possibility of allowing the wholesale transfer of the NSWC to NS2 should Max Barry ever decide to close down NS and only run NS2, but there seemed to be little point in advertising in both forums.

However, any and all link between NS and NS2 is now officially dead. They are conclusively and definitively separate games for all time, and one will never be closed down in favour of the other - as this announcement from Max Barry himself makes clear:


Wed, 25 Feb 2009

We're indy, baby

by Max Barry

I had a dream: we would snuggle close to a professional games development company, and they would deliver a brilliant, shining NationStates sequel while hosting us here for all eternity. But that didn't really work out, so we split.

NationStates is now hosted by me, and doesn't have terribly much to do with NS2 any more. The good news is that means we are free to do what we like here, including adding a few new features.

One thing this experience has taught me is how special the game is. We have something here. And it's due a little love and attention.

ah fudge... I didn't want to get in the BoF, and then I do, and then I get second-place? at least I've got a good RP line for those twats... :p

ah fudge... I didn't want to get in the BoF, and then I do, and then I get second-place? at least I've got a good RP line for those twats... :p

I think the debate to host the BoF was more exciting then the actual competition. Great job though, Krytenia, not your fault it was dead!

Congrats to Edwards City, small competition or not, us group of Baptism of Fire champions are a special bunch.

Aah... Newmanistan, I remember our BoF... That one really was a competition.

Aah... Newmanistan, I remember our BoF... That one really was a competition.
Were there tanks and airstrikes? It's only competition if both sides can shell one another to a standstill...

Were there tanks and airstrikes?

Yes, by the host, who conducted secret, and hitherto unknown, wars against anyone who remotely threatened the BoF for WC40.

Rawr.

There were loads of riots and threats by the angry host to nuke the hell out of the hooligans if they continued their fighting. No tanks and airstrikes, though.

I really hope FP draws against Dariusville. Would be lulz.

I think the debate to host the BoF was more exciting then the actual competition. Great job though, Krytenia, not your fault it was dead!

Congrats to Edwards City, small competition or not, us group of Baptism of Fire champions are a special bunch.

So we're special good? Or special like on the short bus?

So we're special good? Or special like on the short bus?

Hey! Some Baptism of Fire Cup champs do pretty damn well.</Baptism of Fire Cup IV champs (pre-World Cup XVI...)

Were there tanks and airstrikes? It's only competition if both sides can shell one another to a standstill...

bah, who cares about tanks and airstrikes when you've got n00ks!

JICUF: the Han Empire does not endorse the use of nukes as a matter of foreign policy or national defense; n00ks, on the other hand, cannot be avoided even if we'd like to beg to differ.

Hey! Some Baptism of Fire Cup champs do pretty damn well.</Baptism of Fire Cup IV champs (pre-World Cup XVI...)

Yeah, but the ones who don't get a BoF to begin with and then come second in one a hundred years later work out fairly well, too.

JICUF: the Han Empire does not endorse the use of nukes as a matter of foreign policy or national defense; n00ks, on the other hand, cannot be avoided even if we'd like to beg to differ.

Well I speak LOUD! And I carry a BIIIIGER STICK!

And I use it, too!

*nukes Star* ;)

(ooc: whew got a weekend off including today! :D)

And those teams that lose in the quarterfinals of a BOF are doomed never to advance past that point in any WC competition.... or was that just for me?

PROOF:
BoF14 (pre-WC27): Lost in quarterfinals
CoH 21 and 24: Lost in quarterfinals (best finish in CoH)
World Cup 41: Lost in quarterfinals (best finish in WC)

and belated congrats to Edward City for winning the BoF.

Well I speak LOUD! And I carry a BIIIIGER STICK!

And I use it, too!

*nukes Star* ;)

I speak excessively softly... hence, my stick is a gargantuan behemoth that rains death and destruction upon all who behold it. Even the almighty IGNORE cannon cannot dismiss its almighty power. Unfortunately... it is an IGNORE cannon...

9. Dancougar .483

As usual the NSWCBCS standings are comprised of the following:

25% KPB rank
25% Most recent World Cup finish
40% Cotton
5% Polyester
5% Nylon

Man, I should be much higher on this list. My Terrible Towel should give me a kick-ass Cotton coefficient :-P

Don't be silly; it's actually refined plastic.

Man, I should be much higher on this list. My Terrible Towel should give me a kick-ass Cotton coefficient :-P

Please, I should be higher. I have a tough OOC, finished 3rd, and live in Texas, you know, where cotton is king ;)

Please, I should be higher. I have a tough OOC, finished 3rd, and live in Texas, you know, where cotton is king ;)

Alabama and Mississippi would like to have a talk with you, outside.

Alabama and Mississippi would like to have a talk with you, outside.

The Alabamian-born Asian representative concurs with this.




EDIt - On a more serious note, MBC will have yet another esteemed broadcast of news next week, and I'm still looking for international places where I could potentially send imaginary reporters and do a little panorama. If interested, please let me the occasion and I will report :p

Wasn't there supposed to be a draw or something today?

Dunno about that.

Wasn't there supposed to be a draw or something today?
The draw is scheduled for today (Saturday, 2009–02–28), but due to Australiah’s ceasing to exist, we’re one team short, so the draw can’t take place until that is resolved. (However, as Lurikastan has logged in, we’re not in danger of any further crisis.)

Thanks for the update.

Ad’ihan friendlies:

Pre-qualifying:
1. Battle of The Heartland (Liventia AWAY)
2. Septentrionia AWAY
3. OPEN (preferably HOME)

Mid-qualifying:
1. Peisandros HOME
2. Battle of The Heartland (Liventia HOME)
3. Elves Security Forces/Valanora AWAY

Post-qualifying:
TBD

The draw is scheduled for today (Saturday, 2009–02–28), but due to Australiah’s ceasing to exist, we’re one team short, so the draw can’t take place until that is resolved. (However, as Lurikastan has logged in, we’re not in danger of any further crisis.)


PRESIDENTIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS / SUGGESTIONS:

1) In order to resolve the 'one team short' problem, can I suggest that someone other than the hosts or myself (all of whom have their puppet quota) quickly sign up with an ad-hoc one-off puppet? First come, first served...

2) The deadline for voting on EWCC reform is 18:00 UK time today. However, your ancient 40-something WCC president has - in what's clearly a stroke of absent-minded senile genius - left the vote count so far at work. So you won't actually get a vote announcement until 9:00 UK time Monday morning (the vote is quite close, and I need to make sure I get the count absolutely right given the implications).

In which case, enter The McLaughlin Islands, humble puppets of:

...West Zirconia, humble puppet-masters of the aforementioned McLaughlin Islands.

In which case, enter The McLaughlin Islands, humble puppets of:

Wonderful - but maybe run over to the sign-up thread, just to confirm for the hosts.

Oops - forgot about that.

Looks like it is safe to ask this now. We would like to invite Prux to Secristan for a pre-qualifying friendly. The nature of your team should make a trip here a must, don't you think?

These are our confirmed friendlies so far.
Pre-Qualifying: AT Arroza
Post Qualifying: Home vs Cassadaigua; Home vs Newmanistan

If anyone is looking for a home pre-qualifying or post-qualifying fixture, give us as ring. Also our complete mid-qualifying period is available. We are looking to pick up games.

PRESIDENTIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS / SUGGESTIONS:

1) In order to resolve the 'one team short' problem, can I suggest that someone other than the hosts or myself (all of whom have their puppet quota) quickly sign up with an ad-hoc one-off puppet? First come, first served...

2) The deadline for voting on EWCC reform is 18:00 UK time today. However, your ancient 40-something WCC president has - in what's clearly a stroke of absent-minded senile genius - left the vote count so far at work. So you won't actually get a vote announcement until 9:00 UK time Monday morning (the vote is quite close, and I need to make sure I get the count absolutely right given the implications).

I've got the perfect solution for you!

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/uc/20090228/lnq090228.gif

The Bears send (slightly belated) congratulations to Edward City about winning the latest 'Baptism of Fire'. If our teams aren't drawn into the same group for the qualifiers then would they be interested in a 'friendly' game against us -- because we won the Baptism before this one -- during the post-qualifiers period (as that's when our only remaining slot for friendlies is...)?

Updated rankings
OpenDocument format (http://www.thirdgeek.com/ns/worldcup/rankings/preWC45/)
PDF (http://www.thirdgeek.com/ns/worldcup/rankings/preWC45/pdf/)

Updated rankings
OpenDocument format (http://www.thirdgeek.com/ns/worldcup/rankings/preWC45/)
PDF (http://www.thirdgeek.com/ns/worldcup/rankings/preWC45/pdf/)

Hey I can't get these to work.. Now that the draw is up, I'm quite interested to see how I stack up against the others in group 9.
Any other way of showing the rankings?

Hey I can't get these to work.. Now that the draw is up, I'm quite interested to see how I stack up against the others in group 9.
Any other way of showing the rankings?

Someone will post them in english sooner or later.

Does someone hate me???????????????

And now as someone seems to hate me, Sotrthern's friendly will be moved back to post qualifying and Daehanjieguks friendly will be canceled. as will Cand Ms

Does someone hate me???????????????

I don't, but maybe Kosovoe does...LOL ;)

Ye don't deserve it :p

1 Valanora 55.69
2 Starblaydia 51.36
3 Cafundéu 48.86
4 Bostopia 46.30
5 Demot 45.45
6 Daehanjeiguk 38.62
7 Vephrall 37.80
8 Milchama 36.73
9 Capitalizt SLANI 36.69
10 Dancougar 35.71
11 Yafor 2 34.00
12 Jeruselem 32.76
13 Lovisa 32.57
14 Ad’ihan 31.86
15 Candelaria And Marquez 30.74
16 The Archregimancy 29.96
17 Tynelia 28.73
18 Kura-Pelland 27.42
19 The Holy Empire 26.82
20 Qazox 26.73
21 Sorthern Northland 25.68
22 Jeru FC 24.69
23 Wentland 23.98
24 Septentrionia 23.71
25 Bazalonia 22.67
26 Krytenia 21.77
27 Kosovoe 21.00
28 Jasīʼyūn 20.40
29 Prux 18.95
30 Kelssek 18.94
31 Taeshan 18.30
32 Newmanistan 17.65
33 Terreiro de Ogum 17.54
34 Rennidan 17.12
35 Peisandros 15.88
36 Yafalonia and Bazor 2 15.67
37 Green wombat 12.96
38 Bears Armed 12.46
39 Blouman Empire 12.16
40 West Zirconia 11.51
41 Urna Eletrônica 11.08
42 Kenavt 10.82
43 Greal 10.48
44 Koseli Cumhuriyetler 10.42
45 Arroza 9.69
46 Quakmybush 9.58
47 Az-cz 9.55
48 Nethertopia 9.12
49 The Bostopian Empire 8.51
50 Cassadaigua 7.64
51 Secristan 7.54
52 Miroxia 7.51
53 Akbarabad 7.51
54 Magna Sancta Sedes 7.24
55 Zwangzug 7.11
56 Sarzonia 6.93
57 Universitus University 6.44
58 Liventia 6.40
59 Chutnusak 5.86
60 Colbourne 5.50
61 Dariusville 5.33
62 IseeRussiafrommyhouse 4.90
63 KaMaRi 4.81
64 The Macabees 4.72
65 An Blascaod Mor 4.64
66 Myedvedeya 4.42
67 Idanno 4.22
68 Land de Wood 4.20
69 Quintessence of Dust 4.00
70 Syktyvkar 3.92
71 East Pocono 3.71
71 Euro Federations 3.71
73 Solenial 3.31
74 Lecland 3.25
75 Glaycia 3.24
76 Googlewoop 3.22
77 Brightonburg 3.14
78 Opereta 3.13
79 Bettia 3.11
80 AruthKandageLand 2.95
81 Kjomasasopia 2.90
82 Alversia 2.57
83 Edward City 2.56
84 St Samuel 2.50
85 Bushdome 2.43
86 Allemenschen 2.33
87 Rymeria 2.29
88 Cokenia 2.08
89 Bactrian Camels 2.00
89 O Ale Ale 2.00
91 Linpada 1.99
91 Viltek 1.99
93 Kereca 1.92
94 Vlaskin 1.86
95 Logria 1.78
96 Draistania 1.71
96 Oiseaui 1.71
98 Achtervolging 1.67
99 Magnus Valerius 1.57
99 Valetaland 1.57
101 The Islands of Qutar 1.43
102 Nire and Nire 1.42
102 Northern Bettia 1.42
102 Sel Appa 1.42
105 Acapais 1.33
105 Kiryu-shi 1.33
107 Tortuga y Hispaniola 1.29
108 West Newmanistan 1.22
109 Saturday Sport 1.14
109 Swilatia 1.14
111 Australiah 1.00
112 Kanji Starter 0.92
112 New Zomboria 0.92
114 Garlano 0.89
115 Deceased Writers Guild 0.86
115 Onimar 0.86
117 Cypron 0.83
118 Greston 0.78
118 Invisible Wabbits 0.78
120 East Ying 0.75
120 Spazican States 0.75
122 Panuul 0.71
122 Thoughts of Randomness 0.71
124 Icy Cold Death Touch 0.67
124 Legalese 0.67
124 Patetopia 0.67
127 Cauci 0.58
127 Ron Paulovia 0.58
129 Govindia 0.56
129 San Castello 0.56
131 Roddyville 0.50
131 Senatus Populusque II 0.50
131 We Hate Football 0.50
134 United Island Empires 0.43
135 Europa Brittania 0.33
135 Lurikastan 0.33
135 Wijaska Island 0.33
138 Alex Ruined Hallelujah 0.29
138 Seventy Ninth Entrant 0.29
140 Ixania 0.25
141 Mo Land 3 0.22
142 Benelsdon 0.13
143 Kannone 0.08
143 Montgisard 0.08
145 Maestro L Pavarotti 0.00
145 Maimeiras 0.00
145 Mantwenic 0.00
145 San Plasciosi 0.00
145 Tanah Tinggi 0.00
150 Docky -16.57
151 Deep South Sopia -17.34
152 The Doobie Brothers -18.86

I hate to brag, what im just kidding about that but anyways i think my rp was perhaps the greatest ive ever done period for the group draw

When is the World Cup beginning?

Jeruselem, do you got room for a pre-qualifying friendly with us? We'll travel.

Accepted, as a post-qualifying friendly. :)

Hypocria - you want a mid-qualifying friendly for the sake of old times?

Your place or mine?

What is this white stuff falling out of the sky?

I don't really care. Anything is good for me.

EDIT: Arroza - "God's dandruff"

I don't really care. Anything is good for me.

EDIT: Arroza - "God's dandruff"

Bryan Marshall Memorial Stadium in Woodstock, it is!

I don't really care. Anything is good for me.

EDIT: Arroza - "God's dandruff"

God needs some Selsun Blue. :) This is getting ridiculous...we're up to an inch and the town's come to a complete halt. I don't think I'm going to be able to go to school tomorrow at this rate.

Guess you don't get much snow in Alabam', huh?

Guess you don't get much snow in Alabam', huh?

Not really. This is our state's entire snow-removal department.

http://www.thebokeegroup.com/catalog/images/PLASTIC%20DEEP%20POCKET%20SHOVEL.jpg

You forgot your state's coordinator of snow removal:

http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/primer/primer_graphics/Sun.png

True, it will be in the 70's be the end of the week (hallelujah).

True, it will be in the 70's be the end of the week (hallelujah).

And it's sunny and cloudless in Pittsburgh? Da hell?!

At the risk of seeming slightly grumpy (I'm just the teensiest bit poorly today) could we at least pretend to keep the NSWC discussion thread oriented towards football?

Anyway, I can give you an informal result of the EWCC reform vote (even if a full formal precise result will have to wait until I'm next in the office), as the last votes to trickle in didn't change who the top two vote getters were.

The run-off will be between proposals 1 and 3, with proposal 4 narrowly failing to reach the run-off, and proposals 2, 5, and 6 some way behind proposal 4 (with proposal 5 getting no votes).

I'll organise the run-off once I can get you official formal results.

*hip thrust*

I'm going up against Jeru FC! The one roster out of all of them that I really wanted to face! I'm going to have so much fun with that RP...

Also, is it legal to severely injure (and then still field) your team captain before your team plays a single game? Because I blew mine up.

Accepted, as a post-qualifying friendly. :)

Hypocria - you want a mid-qualifying friendly for the sake of old times?

Sorry Yaf, totally missed that! I would have said yes but it seems Hyppos and Golden Wolves will be meeting anyway. :)

Indeed. :D

When is the World Cup beginning?

No one seemed to answer this, so.. Anyone know?

No one seemed to answer this, so.. Anyone know?
As indicated by the schedule (http://www.thirdgeek.com/old/wc45scheduleb.txt) made available in the RP thread, pre-qualifying friendlies are in a bit under three hours, and matchday 1 is one day later.

As indicated by the schedule (http://www.thirdgeek.com/ns/old/wc45scheduleb.txt) made available in the RP thread, pre-qualifying friendlies are in a bit under three hours, and matchday 1 is one day later.

Ahh, so they get under way today? Awesome, thanks.

As indicated by the schedule (http://www.thirdgeek.com/ns/old/wc45scheduleb.txt) made available in the RP thread, pre-qualifying friendlies are in a bit under three hours, and matchday 1 is one day later.
Your link is made of fail. And not even the good Yafalonian kind.

Your link is made of fail. And not even the good Yafalonian kind.
Shhhhhh… (http://www.thirdgeek.com/old/wc45scheduleb.txt) :p

When is the World Cup beginning?

Jeruselem, do you got room for a pre-qualifying friendly with us? We'll travel.

I think I've used up my three ... one with Newmanistan, Taeshan and my own puppet Jeru FC. However, you can play Jeru FC.

Shhhhhh… (http://www.thirdgeek.com/old/wc45scheduleb.txt) :p
And the third piggy, children, lived in a house made of bricks.

And then that lemonade turns sour and tastes just like pig sweat...

And then that lemonade turns sour and tastes just like pig sweat...
http://blogs.commercialappeal.com/beifuss/flashgordon4.web.jpg
Hogsweat's alive?

He doesn't play footy; ergo, he is not. :tongue:

Star seems to be stalking Kry around! :)
It's a break from stalking us.

Star seems to be stalking Kry around! :)
It's a break from stalking us.
Yup, by the end of qualifying, we'll have met 13 times (not including the AOCAF).

Ominous, no?

Yup, by the end of qualifying, we'll have met 13 times (not including the AOCAF).

Ominous, no?

Last cup, we played twice. And if we had made the 2nd round, 3 times.
Star seems to follow you and me around a lot.

Last cup, we played twice. And if we had made the 2nd round, 3 times.
Star seems to follow you and me around a lot.
Be afraid.

Be afraid.

I'm used to it, me and Star started in World Cup 11.
In football terms, Jeruselem and Starblaydia are almost a couple considering how many times we run into each other. I think Qazox is next closest team.

I'm used to it, me and Star started in World Cup 11.
Er, you do know Star didn't compete until WC15, right?

In football terms, Jeruselem and Starblaydia are almost a couple considering how many times we run into each other. I think Qazox is next closest team.
At the moment, my top three are:
Squornshelous - 11
Starblaydia - 10 (will be 13 after WCQs)
Sarzonia - 10 (11 after WCQs)

I have an "S" thing, apparently.

You can't spell "sex" without the S. ;)

Er, you do know Star didn't compete until WC15, right?


OK, you might be right there ... only 4 cups out.

I kinda jumped the gun on my friendly rp, anyways im going for the most points possible this time rp 4 ever

You can't spell "sex" without the S. ;)

You could, but then it wouldn't be sex! :eek2:

OK, these ads are becoming really annoying now ...

You could, but then it wouldn't be sex! :eek2:

... That's right. Then you'd only have ex... and no one wants ex's

I'm used to it, me and Star started in World Cup 11.

In football terms, Jeruselem and Starblaydia are almost a couple considering how many times we run into each other.

As Kry said, I promise you that I started in WC15, hehe.

But I never really noticed how many times I played Jeruselem - possibly because I tended to beat you and didn't consider it was 'oh god not them, again!'.

But, looking back, that is a lot of matches.

Presidential announcement

Here are the official results of the EWCC reform proposal voting:

Proposal 1 - 6 votes

Proposal 3 - 5 votes

Proposal 4 - 4 votes

Proposal 2 - 2 votes

Proposal 6 - 2 votes

Proposal 5 - 0 votes

Proposals 1 and 3 go forward to a run-off vote.

Thanks to everyone who voted; by WCC standards, that was a fairly heavy turnout.

Details of the run-off vote (complete with a repeat listing of the actual proposals) will be made available in the Presidential Announcements thread between 18:30 and 19:00 UK time later today, and additionally linked to from this thread.

And those EWCC reform vote round 2 details may be found here:


http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14565162&postcount=75

Nethertopia proposes a boxing-like world championship. If you beat the winner, you're World Champion.

This proposal has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the Falcons just pulled a major upset by beating Starblaydia, the World Champions.

This proposal has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the Falcons just pulled a major upset by beating Starblaydia, the World Champions.

I endorse this idea.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Nethertopia defeated defending World Champions Starblaydia, C&M beat Nethertopia, and I beat C&M.

Thats kindoff like an unofficial World Cup Champion type thing

Nethertopia proposes a boxing-like world championship. If you beat the winner, you're World Champion.

This proposal has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the Falcons just pulled a major upset by beating Starblaydia, the World Champions.
We shall call you..."Scotland".

Instead of actual RPing, I've been doing this (http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=Craziness_Encouraged).

Would like to know more about the history of the World Cup but can't be bothered to extrapolate dozens of NSwiki articles, wade through scores of threads or whatever? then read the handy unofficial guide to the history of the World Cup on NSwiki. Just six articles, really.

It's all IC, you know, too.


[edit: oh how fitting that advertising my lil attempt at an NS 'book' comes in a post where the advertisement banner is added]

I endorse this idea.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Nethertopia defeated defending World Champions Starblaydia, C&M beat Nethertopia, and I beat C&M.

Eh...

We shall call you..."Scotland".

Aye!

Instead of actual RPing, I've been doing this (http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=Craziness_Encouraged).

Would like to know more about the history of the World Cup but can't be bothered to extrapolate dozens of NSwiki articles, wade through scores of threads or whatever? then read the handy unofficial guide to the history of the World Cup on NSwiki. Just six articles, really.

It's all IC, you know, too.

This one will lead the Nethertopian Bestseller Book List for weeks.

The Iron Bowl in Portland

FYI Hypocria, the Iron Bowl is in Portland, as listed above. Bryan Marshall Memorial Stadium is the main stadium in Woodstock, which is joined by Hendrix Stadium in the Sarzonian capital.

Of course, this is Sarzonia, not bothering to log out of his puppet's account to note the correction to Hypocria's RP.

Its starting already!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

I've been so busy. :( I might not be able to post much.

Where are the world rankings currently?

Its starting already!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

I've been so busy. :( I might not be able to post much.

Where are the world rankings currently?

About twenty posts ago. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14560883&postcount=8385)

Instead of actual RPing, I've been doing this (http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=Craziness_Encouraged).

Would like to know more about the history of the World Cup but can't be bothered to extrapolate dozens of NSwiki articles, wade through scores of threads or whatever? then read the handy unofficial guide to the history of the World Cup on NSwiki. Just six articles, really.

It's all IC, you know, too.


[edit: oh how fitting that advertising my lil attempt at an NS 'book' comes in a post where the advertisement banner is added]

Star: very cool. If it were a real book, I'd probably read it.

Star: very cool. If it were a real book, I'd probably read it.

All we need is the Qazian era when Qazox wins a World Cup! OK, that might be World Cup 100 but ...

Interesting result
Logria 2–1 Jasi'yun

All we need is the Qazian era when Qazox wins a World Cup! OK, that might be World Cup 100 but ...

Interesting result
Logria 2–1 Jasi'yun

In World 523, Qazox has won the last 16 World cups... LOL ;)

(My 5,000th overall posting! YAY!)

This is just too priceless to pass up.

Quote:
<Catalan> How does Atlético de Madrid beat Barcelona, but it can't beat like the worst teams in La Liga?
<commerceheights> Margaret :P
<KP> they only RPed for the Barca game?




Now RL is like NS! the line has been crossed!

Now RL is like NS! the line has been crossed!
There was a line? Who knew?

Nah, there's lots of RL teams like that. Manchester City can beat Man United in a derby and then lose to a relegation team next game. Some NS teams here are like that too.

... Some NS teams here are like that too.

One of them :(:mad:

FYI Hypocria, the Iron Bowl is in Portland, as listed above. Bryan Marshall Memorial Stadium is the main stadium in Woodstock, which is joined by Hendrix Stadium in the Sarzonian capital.

I'm still learning the geography of these new nations. ;)

Correction made.

Nah, there's lots of RL teams like that. Manchester City can beat Man United in a derby and then lose to a relegation team next game. Some NS teams here are like that too.

Ain't that the truth. World Cup 24 qualifying, the Hyppos lost four successive home games against lower/unranked sides. Then went to Jeruselem and won. :)

Nah, there's lots of RL teams like that. Manchester City can beat Man United in a derby and then lose to a relegation team next game. Some NS teams here are like that too.

How about goalless draw against unranked and non-RPing O Ale Ale followed by a 3-0 home result over Liventia followed by a 3-3 draw away to Valanora? :headbang:

You get to a certain rank, and then everyone suddenly is able to beat you...

Really? I've not experienced that. Though there is this nasty purple thing that gets in the way occasionally.

Does posting an account of a match between the two teams that I've got involved get me a RP bonus for both of them, or only for the one in whose name I posted that report? I suspect that it's the latter, but thought I might as well check just in case... ;)
(Yes, the first qualifier for the Bears was against the Wabbits... Margaret's sense of humour?)

Does posting an account of a match between the two teams that I've got involved get me a RP bonus for both of them, or only for the one in whose name I posted that report? I suspect that it's the latter, but thought I might as well check just in case... ;)
(Yes, the first qualifier for the Bears was against the Wabbits... Margaret's sense of humour?)

There's no set policy - it's up to the hosts to decide how to formulate RP bonuses - but traditionally, it's the latter. Post as Bear's Armed, get the bonus for the ursines only.

I do believe that some hosts put in a bonus for having interactive RPs, so while you can't RP for someone, RPing with someone else might help you as well. Of course, check with your (possibly) friendly WC Hosts before taking your word from me.

There's no set policy - it's up to the hosts to decide how to formulate RP bonuses - but traditionally, it's the latter. Post as Bear's Armed, get the bonus for the ursines only.
That's what I expected. Ah well, it's the Bears (rather than the Wabbits) that I want to do well, anyway...

FYI - we have messages that require some assistance in the inboxes of C&M and Dancougar.

Much obliged. Thank ye!

That's what I expected. Ah well, it's the Bears (rather than the Wabbits) that I want to do well, anyway...

That's like me. Imagine how I felt when Talzeckia (one of my long ago puppets) advanced to the semifinals of the 11th Field Hockey World Cup while Sarzonia didn't go through to the knockouts...

Of course, the next time there was a Field Hockey World Cup, the results were quite reversed.

(Yes, the first qualifier for the Bears was against the Wabbits... Margaret's sense of humour?)

Hey, I'm facing both Cafundéu and Terreiro de Ogum in the same group. Talk about sense of humour ...

Hey, I'm facing both Cafundéu and Terreiro de Ogum in the same group. Talk about sense of humour ...

I lost 5-1 to Magna Sancta Sedes - now that's humour...

Scorination will be a little late tonight, a family emergency has occurred.

FYI - we have messages that require some assistance in the inboxes of C&M and Dancougar.

Much obliged. Thank ye!

I daresay, good sir, the mail hath not gone through.

I daresay, good sir, the mail hath not gone through.

*mutters "damned postal dogs eating up my mail...*

There it is!

Hey, I'm facing both Cafundéu and Terreiro de Ogum in the same group. Talk about sense of humour ...

Second time it happens for me, to have my puppet in the group of the main country (of course many others have experienced this situation too, which involves some mixed feelings [it's nice to play against your own puppet, but losing to it isn't so good])... I remember when I faced Estresse Intenso in a WC qualifying (WC37 I think... or it was WC38?). It was a nice RP opportunity due to the fact that I've always promoted the rivalry between the two countries. This time, it can fit well in Terreiro de Ogum's RP storyline.

I hope the battle for third place will be interesting to watch. :tongue:

Oh the shame, Qaz!

Kosovoe 3–1 Qazox

Oh the shame, Qaz!

Kosovoe 3–1 Qazox

Oh, the times, they are a-changin'.

There seems to be several errors with tonights scorination. We were supposed to be the home team in this match. Looking across the "7v3" matches across the board, the "7" team was supposed to be home and was scorinated as away. Looking further, this also happened in the "1v2" matches.

I am therefore requesting either a promise that this will be properly reversed when MD9 is scorinated or a rescorination of tonight's scores. Thank you.

There seems to be several errors with tonights scorination. We were supposed to be the home team in this match. Looking across the "7v3" matches across the board, the "7" team was supposed to be home and was scorinated as away. Looking further, this also happened in the "1v2" matches.

I am therefore requesting either a promise that this will be properly reversed when MD9 is scorinated or a rescorination of tonight's scores. Thank you.
There’s something wrong with the fixture generator in the scorinator; this will be corrected for MDs 3–14, and MD9 will be the reverse of today’s fixtures (the 6v4 was also reversed; MD9 will be 5v8, 6v4, 7v3, 1v2).

SO... If today's fixtures were reversed, is it seems to be, THEN QAZOX WON 3-1, correct? (as the "home" team won in my match-up)

Yeah right, crybaby you have to take away when i win (smiles)

Just going by what the Fixtures said. Qazox was the home team for MD2 and the home team won 3-1, so therefore Qazox won 3-1.

There seems to be several errors with tonights scorination. We were supposed to be the home team in this match. Looking across the "7v3" matches across the board, the "7" team was supposed to be home and was scorinated as away. Looking further, this also happened in the "1v2" matches.

I am therefore requesting either a promise that this will be properly reversed when MD9 is scorinated or a rescorination of tonight's scores. Thank you.

No need for a rescorination of tonight's scores. Just have the CORRECT home teams listed.

There’s something wrong with the fixture generator in the scorinator; this will be corrected for MDs 3–14, and MD9 will be the reverse of today’s fixtures (the 6v4 was also reversed; MD9 will be 5v8, 6v4, 7v3, 1v2).

Ok, sounds good.

No need for a rescorination of tonight's scores. Just have the CORRECT home teams listed.

Didn't really figure that it would be necessary.

...
Didn't really figure that it would be necessary.

It is.

Or perhaps the names and the cores were switched. Hmm and how do you know they just looked at what they thought the games were going to be and plugged in there numbers and thats what they got and they didn't realise that until it was pointed out.

Or perhaps the names and the cores were switched. Hmm and how do you know they just looked at what they thought the games were going to be and plugged in there numbers and thats what they got and they didn't realise that until it was pointed out.

It's being resolved. No more real reason to analyze why this happened. I believe this is the first time this particular scorinator is being used for this kind of tournament (that has a bunch of interested eyes that will make sure things are right for their team). Just a wrinkle that CH & Demot are ironing out. It's all fine.

Wtf.. Is Qazox serious?! This WC will turn shit if stuff like that happens (note, I mean Qazox changing the result of the game to suit, not the scorinator mix up).

I was just saying that there are ,many possibilities of what could be going on and we don't no what exactly the hosts are going to due and what went wrong and where.

Wtf.. Is Qazox serious?! This WC will turn shit if stuff like that happens (note, I mean Qazox changing the result of the game to suit, not the scorinator mix up).

I am. I was the stated home team for the match up. the home team won 3-1, therefore I won 3-1.

Group 6
1 The Macabees
2 Dancougar
3 Kosovoe
4 Invisible Wabbits
5 Bears Armed
6 The McLaughlin Islands
7 Qazox
8 Bushdome

Fixtures
matchday 1: 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5
matchday 2: 8v5, 4v6, 3v7, 2v1
matchday 3: 2v8, 3v1, 4v7, 5v6
matchday 4: 8v6, 7v5, 1v4, 2v3
matchday 5: 3v8, 4v2, 5v1, 6v7
matchday 6: 8v7, 1v6, 2v5, 3v4
matchday 7: 4v8, 5v3, 6v2, 7v1
matchdays 8–14 are the reverse of 1–7
matchday 8: 8v1, 7v2, 6v3, 5v4
matchday 9: 5v8, 6v4, 3v7, 1v2
matchday 10: 8v2, 1v3, 7v4, 6v5
matchday 11: 6v8, 5v7, 4v1, 3v2
matchday 12: 8v3, 2v4, 1v5, 7v6
matchday 13: 7v8, 6v1, 5v2, 4v3
matchday 14: 8v4, 3v5, 2v6, 1v7

According to the schedule, Qazox is away for 1st two games ...

Only because the WC hosts just changed it about 35 minutes ago as to cover their butts.

Last edited by Demot; Today at 23:21.<----Straight from the bottom of the 1st post of the WC45 RP thread. (I have the forum post the times in EST.)

Here's what the schedule really was:

MD1: @ Dancougar National Stadium, Yuki City
MD2: vs. Kosovoe @ Champions Field, Qazox City; Capacity: 84,420.
MD3: @ Invisible Wabbits
MD4: vs. Bears Armed @ Henrí Savagé Stadium, New Recife; Capacity: 73,000.
MD5: @ The McLaughlin Islands Joshua McLaughlin Stadium, McLaughlin Magna
MD6: @ Bushdome
MD7: vs. The Macabees @ Irene Jacobvitz Stadium, Kibbutz; Capacity: 66,000.
MD8: vs. Dancougar @ Qazian Memorial Stadium, Qazox City; Capacity: 98,000.
MD9: @ Kosovoe Port Kosovoe-West Leland Area Stadium, Port Kosovoe
MD10: vs. Invisible Wabbits @ Henrí Savagé Stadium, New Recife; Capacity: 73,000.
MD11: @ Bears Armed
MD12: vs. The McLaughlin Islands @ Estadio Azul Flores, Iguana de Mia; Capacity: 71,000.
MD13: vs. Bushdome @ Champions Field, Qazox City; Capacity: 84,420.
MD14: @ The Macabees

Which I created using the schedule provided the day it was posted. (28-02-2009).

I shouldn't have to pay for a hosts fuck-up.

I am. I was the stated home team for the match up. the home team won 3-1, therefore I won 3-1.

You know what? He's absolutely right!

And as long as we're interpreting the scores to suit our wishes, I would also like to announce that wherever a score involving Vephrall or Panuul appears and one of the goal totals is higher than the other, that's the number that belongs with Vephrall or Panuul. (In the case of matches between those two, the higher number goes to Vephrall.)

Please adjust your RPs and official group tables accordingly. Thanks!

You know what? He's absolutely right!

And as long as we're interpreting the scores to suit our wishes, I would also like to announce that wherever a score involving Vephrall or Panuul appears and one of the goal totals is higher than the other, that's the number that belongs with Vephrall or Panuul. (In the case of matches between those two, the higher number goes to Vephrall.)

Please adjust your RPs and official group tables accordingly. Thanks!

<Sarcasm Block enabled>

Not my fault the Hosts fucked up. So why should I be punished for their mistake? Not to mention the attempted cover-up by swtiching the schedules around.

It is not a cover-up. As CH explained, the fixture generator screwed up and had three of the four fixtures reversed. However, the scores are attributed to the right teams, so your request for a rescorination is denied, and if you continue with your disregard for the score and antagonizing of Taeshan's, then you will have your RP bonus reset to 0 for the duration of this WC for a complete lack of RP etiquette.

<Sarcasm Block enabled>

Not my fault the Hosts fucked up. So why should I be punished for their mistake? Not to mention the attempted cover-up by swtiching the schedules around.

Punished?

<bzzt> Incorrect.

Though the home and away status may have ended up being switched, the fact remains that the team with 21 KPB points defeated the team with 26.73 KPB points. The only thing that has happened is that your MD2 result has effectively been switched with your MD9 result, against the same opponent. Host screwup? Yes. Overall effect? Absolutely none.

Oh, and you and I both know you wouldn't have said anything if this result were the other way around.

Punished?

<bzzt> Incorrect.

Though the home and away status may have ended up being switched, the fact remains that the team with 21 KPB points defeated the team with 26.73 KPB points. The only thing that has happened is that your MD2 result has effectively been switched with your MD9 result, against the same opponent. Host screwup? Yes. Overall effect? Absolutely none.

Oh, and you and I both know you wouldn't have said anything if this result were the other way around.

No, it hasn't as MD9 HAS NOT occured yet. If I win on MD 9, then it would have been effectively switched. Until then, I am counting MD2 as a 3-1 win for Qazox.

(the last part is true, but still Don't tell me that YOU WOULDN'T BE PISSED if it was you this was happening to)

(the last part is true, but still Don't tell me that YOU WOULDN'T BE PISSED if it was you this was happening to)

Clearly you don't know me very well.

It is not a cover-up. As CH explained, the fixture generator screwed up and had three of the four fixtures reversed. However, the scores are attributed to the right teams, so your request for a rescorination is denied, and if you continue with your disregard for the score and antagonizing of Taeshan's, then you will have your RP bonus reset to 0 for the duration of this WC for a complete lack of RP etiquette.

ONE- I never asked for a rescorination.
TWO- It is a cover-up if you switch the schedules after they have been posted.
THREE- I'm not antagonizing Taeshan, just his puppet.
FOUR- ...then you will have your RP bonus reset to 0 for the duration of this WC for a complete lack of RP etiquette? :eek:

In light of sanctions I remit the following:

Correct RP (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14569921&postcount=154)

But OOCly I still think it is BS.

Sometimes a host may make a mistake.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14228523&postcount=98

Then they rectify them. What has happened tonight is no different then what happened in this linked post. It gets fixed, we move on.

If I win on MD 9, then it would have been effectively switched.
You’re assuming that you would have won on MD2 had the correct fixtures been used. You have the same chance of winning on MD9 as you would have if the match had been played today, and you had the same chance of winning the reversed fixture today as you would have if the match were played on MD9. In other words, if the correct fixtures were used, and Margaret made the same sacrifices, you would have lost 3–1 away on MD9.

TWO- It is a cover-up if you switch the schedules after they have been posted.
It is not a “cover-up,” it is simply providing the correct updated information about what matches were played on MD2 and will be played on MD9. If we wanted to cover up the error, we would not have made several posts here admitting that it occurred. :p

Sometimes a host may make a mistake.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14228523&postcount=98

Then they rectify them. What has happened tonight is no different then what happened in this linked post. It gets fixed, we move on.

:p

New Manhattan Quote:
Originally Posted by Qazox
If I win on MD 9, then it would have been effectively switched.

You’re assuming that you would have won on MD2 had the correct fixtures been used. You have the same chance of winning on MD9 as you would have if the match had been played today, and you had the same chance of winning the reversed fixture today as you would have if the match were played on MD9. In other words, if the correct fixtures were used, and Margaret made the same sacrifices, you would have lost 3–1 away on MD9.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Qazox
TWO- It is a cover-up if you switch the schedules after they have been posted.

It is not a “cover-up,” it is simply providing the correct updated information about what matches were played on MD2 and will be played on MD9. If we wanted to cover up the error, we would not have made several posts here admitting that it occurred.

Whose to say I wouldn't have?

Fine.

I apologize for taking up the majority of the last 2 or so pages with this.
But fair warning, If I miss qualifying for the World Cup by 3 or fewer points, this will be brought up again.

Sometimes a host may make a mistake.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14228523&postcount=98

Then they rectify them. What has happened tonight is no different then what happened in this linked post. It gets fixed, we move on.

Omgz. This times a million.

Seriously Qazox, double standards much?

omgz. This times a million.

Seriously qazox, double standards much?

Just drop it please. I've accepted it.

Oh for goodness sake. Go to sleep, and look what I wake up to.

A minor mistake's been made and rectified. There's been no covering of buttocks, no attempt to subvert the structure of the tournament. It's hardly the RP bonus fiasco of WC 26, or the secret semi-final manipulation of WC2, is it?

Qaz, while you claim to be over it, can I give you a bit of constructive advice from someone who was inclined to give you robust support over the shared ISP issue? This sort of over-reaction to a minor problem is hardly going to bolster your case when it comes to overcoming the objections of those who are sceptical regarding whether you should host WCC events.

You were within your rights to raise a query, but once the hosts had explained the error, you should have just let it drop and move on. Lesson learned, I hope.

The rest of you, I suggest you just let it drop.

Move along now, please... nothing to see here anymore....

I was just saying that there are ,many possibilities of what could be going on and we don't no what exactly the hosts are going to due and what went wrong and where.

As an aside, Taeshan, you're actually the cleverest person in this thread over the last thirty posts or so.

Apologies to, Arch, of course, but its the truth!

*runs off to ns.net to send his vote*

So, in closing. We played a home game instead of an away game that will happen in week 9, correct?

You were within your rights to raise a query, but once the hosts had explained the error, you should have just let it drop and move on. Lesson learned, I hope.

Agreed. I think Newmanistan's initial complaint is an excellent example of that. S/he brought up the problem to the host's attention, got a response, and understood it.

So, in closing. We played a home game instead of an away game that will happen in week 9, correct?

For 37.5% of those nations participating, yes! :p

Hell, I could be bitching about being 0-0-2 after my first two Matchdays.

However, that fits perfectly into my original plan for RPing Sarzonia's second World Cup since a 13-cup absence.

I'm no fan of Commerce Heights hosting a World Cup. I would have voted against this bid if I had the chance to based on what happened in World Cup XXVI (which he co-hosted with Oliverry), but you know what? Shit happens.

I don't see a need to do anything with this matchday beyond what's already happened. To quote a long ago friend of mine, "what's past is past, let it go."

Is the continued attack on our hosting really necessary Sarzonia? You made your feelings towards CH known before, now just drop it and move on.

Is the continued attack on our hosting really necessary Sarzonia? You made your feelings towards CH known before, now just drop it and move on.

I was providing context for why I'm not one of the people on the warpath about the fixture problem and why I think Qazox needed to chill out. If I were continuing to attack your hosting, I wouldn't have said "you know what? Shit happens."

PRESIDENTIAL REQUEST

Can I respectfully suggest to all parties that any further subjective comment on the recent match scheduling issue be left to one side. Further comment at this point can only serve to unnecessarily exacerbate tensions and lead to further misunderstandings.

If you have a practical question along the lines of 'how do the schedule changes impact me?' or 'could the hosts provide a list of the 37.5% of nations impacted', then by all means post it.

Comments complaining about the hosts or comments from hosts reacting to perceived complaints, however, are probably unhelpful at this stage.

Two thoughts from me:

1) It's only matchday 2, and whatever's happened, no irreparable harm's been done. The monks lost 2-1 to Draistana; do you see me complaining?

2) Repeat after me... "It's only a game - it's only a game - it's only a game"
There are - believe me - far, far more important things in life.

Now everyone take a deep breath, and :fluffle:

PRESIDENTIAL REQUEST

I used to be able to do those, no-one listened to me, though.

But then again, do we get a choice in who we :fluffle:? Otherwise it'll be a little weird, even for this thread.

But then again, do we get a choice in who we :fluffle:? Otherwise it'll be a little weird, even for this thread.

If you're not sure who to :fluffle:, then probably best to :fluffle: me. I can then pass on :fluffle: to the people I think are most in need.

I'm neutral, and I love all you my children equally.

Not that the non-existent power's gone to my head, or anything.

http://forum.tribalwars.net/images/smilies/phpbb_smilies/icon_neutral.gif