NationStates Jolt Archive

Well she should be at least in her mid-80's by now (if Jeruselem is using RL equivalent of 4 years between Cups.)

And I haven't killed anyone. (and my Storyline RP is on hold for XLI, as i competely accidently erased the plot outline I had, and now have to re-write it from scratch.)

Actually Dazza joined the World Cup at age 14 at World Cup 29. Current cup is 40 ... so she's actually about 58.

This just in from the Useless Info Department of Useless Info:

Qazox is ranked 7,388th in the world for Nudest.

Damn, and here I thought banning cotton, flax, hemp, goats, sheep, silkworms, and synthetic fibers from the country would work.

This just in from the Useless Info Department of Useless Info:

Qazox is ranked 7,388th in the world for Nudest.

Damn, and here I thought banning cotton, flax, hemp, goats, sheep, silkworms, and synthetic fibers from the country would work.

Maybe you shouldn't get your players an official uniform... that way their fans wouldn't bother to get the official replica gear...

Actually Dazza joined the World Cup at age 14 at World Cup 29. Current cup is 40 ... so she's actually about 58.

So I was a few years off..

and THIS IS THE 4000TH post?

YET! YOU HAVEN'T KILLED ANYONE YET!

*runs off with a red ink permanent marker in hand*

Could have been worse, Sel Appa coulda wrote something.

Maybe you shouldn't get your players an official uniform... that way their fans wouldn't bother to get the official replica gear...

My team hasn't had an offical uniform since WC 29 or 30.

Actually Dazza joined the World Cup at age 14 at World Cup 29. Current cup is 40 ... so she's actually about 58.

If Dazza lived in the Han Empire, she would only be about 33... Of course, she would have probably found her way into conflict with the government's Confucian style of government...

and for some reason, people seem to ignore the fact Qazox fields a nude football team?

If Dazza lived in the Han Empire, she would only be about 33... Of course, she would have probably found her way into conflict with the government's Confucian style of government...

She wouldn't exist, her mother Natasha was a ex-whore ...
In RL Israel, there are a lot of "imported" whores around. You just don't hear about them.

Could have been worse, Sel Appa coulda wrote something.

Hmm, so Sel Appa writing something is worse than me running off with a red-ink permanent marker in hand? You people have such weird priorities. I'd personally prefer the football team of dust bunnies that eat glass but sneeze petrol.

She wouldn't exist, her mother Natasha was a ex-whore ...
In RL Israel, there are a lot of "imported" whores around. You just don't hear about them.

Any exports coming around?

Any exports coming around?

I can arrange something for the Han if desired ... :D

and for some reason, people seem to ignore the fact Qazox fields a nude football team?

You're the first to even recognize that fact.

I can arrange something for the Han if desired ... :D

Actually, now that you mention it, transfer season is open in the NFL!

You're the first to even recognize that fact.

ummm... you don't advertise... more people would know if you'd advertise...

COME TO QAZOX!

THE NUDIST PARADISE OF NS!

All of our Sports teams are naked, except for our hockey team, they wear socks.. just not on their feet ;)

COME TO QAZOX!

THE NUDIST PARADISE OF NS!

All of our Sports teams are naked, except for our hockey team, they wear socks.. just not on their feet ;)

And the Jeruselem Ambassador to Qazox is now ... Dazza Dallas.

And the Jeruselem Ambassador to Qazox is now ... Dazza Dallas.

Coincidence?

talking about irony...

anyway, I was figuring that we could have some sort of International Champion's League sort of thing go on. I don't know if it's been attempted before, but I'd figure that it's worth a shot to try (again).

A simple format for the League.

* A number of Host countries send two teams to compete: the team that wins the country's highest level Cup and the team that wins the country's highest level league (if these are the same team, the country could devise its own method of supplying the second team).

* Ranks would be determined by each country's individual record, using the simple formula:

number of points/total maximum of points able to win

If most countries use the w=3, d=1, l=0 convention, this number would be a number between 0 and 3 (although never really 0 and not often 3).

* Teams would compete in a simple home-away stages until the final match. Every Champions League, the Cup is hosted in one city (or one stadium, if that city has more than one stadium).


The basic qualification to participate in the International Champions League is a standing professional league for at least one season (otherwise, there are no champions from which to choose). I haven't worked out all of the kinks - but if there's enough interest, I might consider working on it. Let me know what you think!

COME TO QAZOX!

THE NUDIST PARADISE OF NS!

All of our Sports teams are naked, except for our hockey team, they wear socks.. just not on their feet ;)

Your people must have an exceptionally large amount of ball-related incidents for the male-side of your population...

talking about irony...

anyway, I was figuring that we could have some sort of International Champion's League sort of thing go on. I don't know if it's been attempted before, but I'd figure that it's worth a shot to try (again).

A simple format for the League.

* A number of Host countries send two teams to compete: the team that wins the country's highest level Cup and the team that wins the country's highest level league (if these are the same team, the country could devise its own method of supplying the second team).

* Ranks would be determined by each country's individual record, using the simple formula:

number of points/total maximum of points able to win

If most countries use the w=3, d=1, l=0 convention, this number would be a number between 0 and 3 (although never really 0 and not often 3).

* Teams would compete in a simple home-away stages until the final match. Every Champions League, the Cup is hosted in one city (or one stadium, if that city has more than one stadium).


The basic qualification to participate in the International Champions League is a standing professional league for at least one season (otherwise, there are no champions from which to choose). I haven't worked out all of the kinks - but if there's enough interest, I might consider working on it. Let me know what you think!

We did have one, but it's been dormat for well over a year, but if you wanna re-start it.. go right ahead.

As for the incidents... not yet ;)

talking about irony...

anyway, I was figuring that we could have some sort of International Champion's League sort of thing go on. I don't know if it's been attempted before, but I'd figure that it's worth a shot to try (again).

A simple format for the League.

* A number of Host countries send two teams to compete: the team that wins the country's highest level Cup and the team that wins the country's highest level league (if these are the same team, the country could devise its own method of supplying the second team).

* Ranks would be determined by each country's individual record, using the simple formula:

number of points/total maximum of points able to win

If most countries use the w=3, d=1, l=0 convention, this number would be a number between 0 and 3 (although never really 0 and not often 3).

* Teams would compete in a simple home-away stages until the final match. Every Champions League, the Cup is hosted in one city (or one stadium, if that city has more than one stadium).


The basic qualification to participate in the International Champions League is a standing professional league for at least one season (otherwise, there are no champions from which to choose). I haven't worked out all of the kinks - but if there's enough interest, I might consider working on it. Let me know what you think!

There's already a Champions League going on. The TakilQuip Champions Cup is about to have its' second edition. It's all there in the Newswire thread...

You certainly can, Sel, since we're talking about two different situations here. A nation that simply does not RP takes their consequences by relying on their ranking and Margaret to do well; they contribute to the game by simply existing. Whatever their reasoning is (experiments, lack of time, lack of desire, etc.), they have at least provided a team to compete.

Every team that signed up has provided that, where they ceased to exist or not. They put a name down, which is the exact same thing a non RP-ing team that still exists has provided.


A nation that has ceased to exist, on the other hand, provides none of that. As stated before, they can no longer RP. Furthermore, with the deletion of their nation (which, I'll admit can be reversed - I've done it before multiple times), they no longer exist as an entity, for purposes of this game.

Not necessarily the case. It's perfectly possible to RP as if nations exist even if they don't technically exist on NS. I certainly haven't agreed to ignore the existence of nations just because they don't exist there.

Therefore, if a host feels they should not be allowed to advance (hence the 80-point penalty rule used both before and currently), it is within their rights.

I actually agree with this, esepcially as it works now. I just think the hosts are wrong for doing so.


Additionally, your argument that the forums are not the same as the "actual game" don't hold water either. First, the forums are intended to be an expansion of the NS game, allowing those who take part in it to do things beyond the coding capabilities of the "game" created by Max Barry, which is indicated by the fact that one cannot participate in the forums without a Jolt account created in connection to your NS name.

Second, there would not be a Nationstates World Cup without the existence of a Nationstates. To argue that your participation in the former need not include participation (i.e. logging in once every 28 days, or 60 if you're in vacation mode) in the latter is nonsensical.

Both of those things are true, but irrelevant. Nothing that happens on NS has any effect on what happens in these RPs. I don't consider my national stats or the things written there at all when I RP. I don't look at other people's pages there either. If they changed the settings of the forums such that you didn't need an account there I would let mine lapse and yet I could continue playing the RPs here EXACTLY as I do now. If that's not a sign they're unrelated I don't know what is. The policies of the people running the forums aren't are concern.

Present a fucking proposal or drop the issue. Not that difficult to understand, surely. No need to keep arguing.

The next one who goes on about this should be penalised somehow. Otherwise this argument will keep going to-and-fro.

Some of you will have known I've been in Las Vegas since last Saturday. Some of you will not. My pre-playoff first leg RP is an entirely true story :p (the food was indeed tasty)

1) This whole debate thingy about dead nations leads me to think this: thank you for keeping me awake thru the jetlag long enough for me to watch Liverpool -v- Blackburn

2) Taeshan, I'll take that friendly against you, and will be TG'ing Kry asap

3) In the whole robot-team-debate thingy, I was surprised Han didn't mention me playing with tanks

4) Qazox, you play nude? Dude, even we don't go that far. (Note to self: next time we play Qazox, wear the metal-tipped studs)

COME TO QAZOX!

THE NUDIST PARADISE OF NS!

All of our Sports teams are naked, except for our hockey team, they wear socks.. just not on their feet ;)

Could be interesting if you were to play Casari...

As far as unusual death rates goes, I feel like I read World Cup 30's was notably high (I wasn't around to remember)...revenge of the ten-cup plan?

As far as proposals go, probably the simpler the better:
Once qualification has begun, the status of nations on the NationStates website shall not affect the results of their teams or the final positions of groups. The right to eject nations that have ceased to exist before qualification is reserved to the hosts.

I'm not sure whether this would be "good for the Cup" overall, which is why I'm reluctant to officially put it forward.

As far as unusual death rates goes, I feel like I read World Cup 30's was notably high (I wasn't around to remember)...revenge of the ten-cup plan?

As far as proposals go, probably the simpler the better:


I'm not sure whether this would be "good for the Cup" overall, which is why I'm reluctant to officially put it forward.

I'll be happy to officially raise this if Az and Sel support it just so we can get this done with.

I'm pretty sure we have existing legislation in place that says something to the effect of "the hosts have the final say over all matters related to the tournament"...

I'm pretty sure we have existing legislation in place that says something to the effect of "the hosts have the final say over all matters related to the tournament"...

Yes - but it also doesn't stop future legislation from restricting that further than the few restrictions that are already placed.

I'm pretty sure that going by what we already have we come to that conclusion already, Zwang. Another proposal can't hurt, though.

EDIT: This is Yaf', not Baz'.

Let's clarify Zwang's proposal:

If a team ceases during qualifying, nothing happens to it and it cannot be penalised in any way. If a team ceases before qualifying, it's the hosts' discretion.

Not in favour, but willing to bring it to vote.

It must be a blue moon tonight, as i agree with LE. :D

/me takes some blue cheese, forms it into a ball, makes some indents in it and hands it to Kry. Here, you wanted a blue moon? :p

Let's clarify Zwang's proposal:

If a team ceases during qualifying, nothing happens to it and it cannot be penalised in any way. If a team ceases before qualifying, it's the hosts' discretion.

Not in favour, but willing to bring it to vote.

Agreed, though if you don't mind I'm going to reword it just a little:

If a nation that is involved in an ongoing World Cup ceases to exist during the event, it shall remain in the competition with no penalty. If a nation signs up for an event and ceases to exist before the event begins, it may be ejected at the discretion of the host(s).

How's that sound?

(Like LE, I'm against it, but still think it's voteworthy.)

How's that sound?Better, thanks.

Okay, then.

For the sake of convenience, voting on Proposal AS413 will run concurrently with voting for BoF hosts, which means it will start at the end of the group stage of World Cup 40. However, unlike the BoF vote, which is open only to former WC hosts, the vote on Proposal AS413 will be open to the entire WCC.

We really, honestly need a discussion thread? I still don't see how, honestly.

@ Nethertopia: I think that you will find that RP scenarios have been thoroughly exhausted. That said, I personally suggest that you try an RP using the gods and heroes of mythology as members on your team.

Seems like a good idea, but i'll stick with the ninja-monkey-monks.

We really, honestly need a discussion thread? I still don't see how, honestly.
Because otherwise we’d have had over fifteen thousand posts cluttering various RP and scores threads?

Or, people would have to consider their frustration, complaints, and various insults for longer than it takes to post in the Discussion thread, sparing us the "Blank, you are a moron, we've done this this way forever therefore it must be this way until the inevitable heat death of the universe." comments and restricting all but the more blatant attacks on one another to a private forum.

Maybe even better, we act like we made it past the age of 9. I'd support that.

Or, people would have to consider their frustration, complaints, and various insults for longer than it takes to post in the Discussion thread, sparing us the "Blank, you are a moron, we've done this this way forever therefore it must be this way until the inevitable heat death of the universe." comments and restricting all but the more blatant attacks on one another to a private forum.

Maybe even better, we act like we made it past the age of 9. I'd support that.

Yeah ...

Proposal BS1092.5

We all should act like mature adults.

Never gunna happen.

Ummm, isn't it customary for the person making the proposal to submit the proposal? As far as I have seen, neither Az-cz nor Sel Appa have endorsed the proposal being submitted on their behalf.

Just seems fishy to me...

Ummm, isn't it customary for the person making the proposal to submit the proposal? As far as I have seen, neither Az-cz nor Sel Appa have endorsed the proposal being submitted on their behalf.

Just seems fishy to me...

They don't have to 'endorse' it, they can submit their own alternative if they don't like it. It's not being "submitted on their behalf". This is just one option. Anyone can submit a proposal if need be.

PLAY-OFF RESULTS

Jeru FC 2-3 Daehanjeiguk
Daehanjeiguk 5-1 Jeru FC
Daehanjeiguk advances 8-4 on aggregate

err... 2+1=4?

They don't have to 'endorse' it, they can submit their own alternative if they don't like it. It's not being "submitted on their behalf". This is just one option. Anyone can submit a proposal if need be.

Okay, just checking!

err... 2+1=4?

Doesn't bother me! :p

Ummm, isn't it customary for the person making the proposal to submit the proposal? As far as I have seen, neither Az-cz nor Sel Appa have endorsed the proposal being submitted on their behalf.

Just seems fishy to me...

You're correct that they haven't endorsed the proposal; however, I'm not submitting it on behalf of anyone in particular. Probably the best explanation is that I'm submitting it on behalf of the community as a whole in an attempt to resolve the matter amicably.

This just in from the Useless Info Department of Useless Info:

Qazox is ranked 7,388th in the world for Nudest.

Damn, and here I thought banning cotton, flax, hemp, goats, sheep, silkworms, and synthetic fibers from the country would work.Sel Appa is ranked 1st in the region and 507th in the world for Most Compassionate Citizens.

Could have been worse, Sel Appa coulda wrote something.Eh?

Proposal AS413
If a nation that is involved in an ongoing World Cup ceases to exist during the event, it shall remain in the competition with no penalty. If a nation signs up for an event and ceases to exist before the event begins, it may be ejected at the discretion of the host(s).

*endorse* *support* *sponsor*

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/juvanya/as413.png

Think of the kittens!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/juvanya/as413kitten2.png

i am yet again headed to the coh. 2-0 to cafundeu 5-2 aggreGATE. tHIS SUCKZ. Ah well maybe next cup.

32nd Cup of Harmony host vote results

There were five votes received from among the seventeen eligible voters. The first-choice votes were as follows:

Starblaydia/Krytenia: 3
Ad’ihan/Acapais: 2
Demot/Vephrall: 0
Yafalonia and Bazor 2: 0

With a majority of votes in the first round, Starblaydia and Krytenia will host the Cup of Harmony.

i am yet again headed to the coh. 2-0 to cafundeu 5-2 aggreGATE. tHIS SUCKZ. Ah well maybe next cup.

And ya got swept in the WBC Final.. just not your day today.

You're correct that they haven't endorsed the proposal; however, I'm not submitting it on behalf of anyone in particular. Probably the best explanation is that I'm submitting it on behalf of the community as a whole in an attempt to resolve the matter amicably.

If not amicably, then at least democratically...

Congrats Star/Kry for the CoH

also Dae for stealing the 4000th post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13605032&postcount=4000)

There now follows a list of nations who RP'd but did not qualify for the World Cup:

Acapais
Aleos
Blouman Empire
Candelaria & Marquez
Fujisawan Territories
Green Wombat
Hopeful SC
Hopeless SC
Hryvinia
Jariss
Jeru FC
Kelssek
Kereca
Kose & The Turkomans
Kosovoe
Kura-Pelland
Magnus Valerius
Nethertopia
Newmanistan
Nire & Nire
NS Illegal Immigrants
Pantocratoria
Prazkoy
Prux
Rejistania
Rennidan
Septentriona
Sesquipedalianist
Sorthern Northland
Taeshan
Terreiro de Ogum
The Archregimancy

Eighthgraderistan are not on this list as I believe they auto-refused a CoH entry. This, handily, gives us 32 invites, which will go out this morning. Sixty-three out of ninety-two entered nations RPd, and two nations got to the World Cup without RPing (Dance 2 Revolution and Scotchpinestan, though both needed the playoffs). If someone official-type could let us have the updated KPBs, that'd be great. Thanks!

...Eighthgraderistan are not on this list as I believe they auto-refused a CoH entry. This, handily, gives us 32 invites, which will go out this morning. Sixty-three out of ninety-two entered nations RPd, and two nations got to the World Cup without RPing (Dance 2 Revolution and Scotchpinestan, though both needed the playoffs). If someone official-type could let us have the updated KPBs, that'd be great. Thanks!

Well like i said earlier (about 6 or 7 pages ago.. unless i didn't) that i only created 8thgraderistan just to try to win a 2nd BoF with a puppet, which would have given ME 2 puppets with BoF titles, something noone else had done. (yes i know some teams have won the BoF with thier main and their puppet, but no-one has won 2 with puppets.)

Jeru FC will be defending their CoH title, but I suspect they won't actually manage to do so.
I think Newmanistan is the tip.

Well like i said earlier (about 6 or 7 pages ago.. unless i didn't) that i only created 8thgraderistan just to try to win a 2nd BoF with a puppet, which would have given ME 2 puppets with BoF titles, something noone else had done. (yes i know some teams have won the BoF with thier main and their puppet, but no-one has won 2 with puppets.)

Oh I'm well aware of that, but everyone else may not be. Sounds to me like you're going for a 'record' just so you can have one to put your name against. But, if that's what you want to do, that's fine by me.

The CoH 32 Thread, for RPs, Rosters, Scores, etc, can now be found here! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=554227). All invitations have been sent via TG.

I support the proposal, but it really wasn't/isn't my main goal. It's all part of my larger goal of trying to convince people to make the cup better rather than just doing things the way they've always been done. I don't really have a problem with the hosts having discretion over what to do with teams that cease to exist do. I'd really hope that future hosts would be sensible to do as the proposal states without the need for it to be enshrined in the rules.

I'd really hope that future hosts would be sensible to do as the proposal states without the need for it to be enshrined in the rules.

It may be 'sensible' to you but it's not to a large majority of others. Your sweeping generalisation that anyone who opposes the proposal is not 'sensible' is quite frankly ridiculous.

Well, here's something that I think we can all agree is sensible: the new KPB rankings.

ods (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/WC40 Post-Qual Rankings.ods) | xls (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/WC40 Post-Qual Rankings.xls) | pdf (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/WC40 Post-Qual Rankings.pdf)

Erm, yes, well, errr....

You're probably wondering where the Dreamed Realm went this cup...

I moved house a week and a half ago, and as a result lost my broadband connection. Due to problems connecting our telephone, I couldn't get home internet access as soon as we moved, and we may not have home access for another week.

And just about the time that this happened, my employers banned us from using 'recreational' websites at work following several incidents where employees were downloading massive music and video files off the County Council network. Idiots. Upper management reacted with a blanket ban on recreational usage.

Which all means that I haven't been able to RP anything for well over a week, and won't be able to do so for another week. My sincere apologies to anyone who's been disappointed by my absence.

All of which leads us neatly into the argument over RP'ing that some of you have been having - again - during my absence. I would have loved to have RP'd every match this cup. I would have loved to have RP'd every match in WC38. Unfortunately, in each case, due to to circumstances beyond my control, I couldn't RP every match. Those arguing that nations who don't RP should somehow be 'punished' miss the point that RL sometimes intervenes; not all of us are intravenously connected to our computers. Despite the Archregimancy's long and significant RP'ing involvement in the World Cup since WC24, and despite the fact that I wanted to participate, I have been unable to fully RP two of the last three World Cups. In both of those tournaments, I've failed to qualify. In fact, my inability to RP fully in two of those three World Cups is probably, statistically speaking, a major contributing factor in my inability to qualify for those cups.

So, to those of you arguing for penalties for non-RPers, I present evidence in the form of myself that this is what's happening already. I've RP'd less - due to circumstances beyond my control - and I've qualified less.

However, because the essence of our tournament remains luck and random numbers, not every higher-ranked nation that doesn't RP fails to qualify, some lower-ranked nations that didn't RP might qualify.

I wouldn't have it any other way. I accept my recent run of bad form with as much grace as I can muster.

But those of you in favour of penalties might consider whether your desire to minimise the chances of non-RPers qualifying might not also hurt active and involved nations who temporarily lose their internet access or perhaps can't fully participate temporarily for health reasons (something which I'm keenly aware of of late). And I ask you, is that quite the impact you're looking for?

Edit: IC explanation for Dreamed Realm's lack of RPs now added in RP thread under AIF.

They're Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


and Damn you Qazox... I so wanted to get into the World Cup.. 5th time's the charm huh?

Alright, I was going to try and stay out of this discussion but after a week of reading about it nonstop, I can no longer resist. I may be a new nation in the World Cup, but as someone who has hosted regional events, I have been through this kind of thing.

Some of us, are perhaps, forgetting, the "spirit of the game". That spirit, is that each of us represent a nation that was created on NationStates. We then take that nation, and use it to compete in regional and in this case, world sporting events.

This is done, with us having a nation. Not just as a person on a forum who enjoys the competition, but as a nation, with athletes who represent that nation. When a nation ceases to exist, then who are those athletes representing? No one. Therefore they are removed from the competition or in the case of the World Cup, they are prevented from qualifying by being given a points penalty. If the nation is existing, but is not RPing, its a different story. There is an active nation there, therefore the athletes that compete for that nation are doing so for a legitimate entity. Therefore, they should continue, and have the chance for success.

Sure there are real life factors. But unless you have a real life contact with someone else in the competition, those factors are not going to be known, and therefore can't be taken into consideration. Because if you blindly do it for one, but not for another, then it has a stench of favoritism, something that is never wanted in an internet competition. If they come back, they then have a nation again, which means they then have legitimate athletes again, and can compete once again. Now if they do have a real life contact, that person could simply say "so and so is having problems" please be patient with them.

It's not hard, if you want to be a competitor in the competitions that evolve around NationStates, to log in then immediately log out, at least once in a 28 day period, or if you know you might have problems, at least once in a 60 day period.

The hosts, in my opinion, have done the correct thing in issuing the penalties that were handed out.

Alright, I was going to try and stay out of this discussion but after a week of reading about it nonstop, I can no longer resist. I may be a new nation in the World Cup, but as someone who has hosted regional events, I have been through this kind of thing.

Some of us, are perhaps, forgetting, the "spirit of the game". That spirit, is that each of us represent a nation that was created on NationStates. We then take that nation, and use it to compete in regional and in this case, world sporting events.

This is done, with us having a nation. Not just as a person on a forum who enjoys the competition, but as a nation, with athletes who represent that nation. When a nation ceases to exist, then who are those athletes representing? No one. Therefore they are removed from the competition or in the case of the World Cup, they are prevented from qualifying by being given a points penalty. If the nation is existing, but is not RPing, its a different story. There is an active nation there, therefore the athletes that compete for that nation are doing so for a legitimate entity. Therefore, they should continue, and have the chance for success.

Sure there are real life factors. But unless you have a real life contact with someone else in the competition, those factors are not going to be known, and therefore can't be taken into consideration. Because if you blindly do it for one, but not for another, then it has a stench of favoritism, something that is never wanted in an internet competition. If they come back, they then have a nation again, which means they then have legitimate athletes again, and can compete once again. Now if they do have a real life contact, that person could simply say "so and so is having problems" please be patient with them.

It's not hard, if you want to be a competitor in the competitions that evolve around NationStates, to log in then immediately log out, at least once in a 28 day period, or if you know you might have problems, at least once in a 60 day period.

The hosts, in my opinion, have done the correct thing in issuing the penalties that were handed out.

That is, quite possibly, the most sensible and rational thing I have read in this thread this week.

*applauds*

That is, quite possibly, the most sensible and rational thing I have read in this thread this week.

*applauds*

And here's the opposite *clears throat*

"Rotate that fish!"

Ahem.

And here's the opposite *clears throat*

"Rotate that fish!"

Ahem.

1.e4c52.c4Qa53.Nc3Nf64.e5d65.exd5exd56.Qe2+Be67.Nd5Nxd58.cxd5Na69.dxe6f610.e7Bxe711.Nf3Nb412.a3Nc2+
13.Kd1Nxa114.d4cxd415.Nxd4Qa4+16.b3Nxb317.Ne6Nd4+18.Qc2Qxc2+19.Ke1Qxc1#!

It may be 'sensible' to you but it's not to a large majority of others. Your sweeping generalisation that anyone who opposes the proposal is not 'sensible' is quite frankly ridiculous.Well, he's right.

Well, here's something that I think we can all agree is sensible: the new KPB rankings.

ods (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/WC40 Post-Qual Rankings.ods) | xls (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/WC40 Post-Qual Rankings.xls) | pdf (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/WC40 Post-Qual Rankings.pdf)
These PDFs are wonderful. Spreadsheets are too confusing and a pain in the Qazox.

snip
Welcome back and thank you for what I think is supporting the Sensible Side aka me, Az, and at least someone else. Also, this brings up a good point, what if someone is simply unable to log on during the 60 days due to whatever real lif circumstance. I bet they'de be mighty pissed to know their qualification was stolen. There's just too many what-ifs.

Alright, I was going to try and stay out of this discussion but after a week of reading about it nonstop, I can no longer resist. I may be a new nation in the World Cup, but as someone who has hosted regional events, I have been through this kind of thing.

Some of us, are perhaps, forgetting, the "spirit of the game". That spirit, is that each of us represent a nation that was created on NationStates. We then take that nation, and use it to compete in regional and in this case, world sporting events.

This is done, with us having a nation. Not just as a person on a forum who enjoys the competition, but as a nation, with athletes who represent that nation. When a nation ceases to exist, then who are those athletes representing? No one. Therefore they are removed from the competition or in the case of the World Cup, they are prevented from qualifying by being given a points penalty. If the nation is existing, but is not RPing, its a different story. There is an active nation there, therefore the athletes that compete for that nation are doing so for a legitimate entity. Therefore, they should continue, and have the chance for success.
See, that's the problem with all the arguments on the other side. They equate a programming thing that deactivates a nation to conserve server space with actual IC, which is utterly absurd.

That is, quite possibly, the most sensible and rational thing I have read in this thread this week.

*applauds*You have odd definitions of "rational" and "sensible".

Sel.

We get your point.

Enough.

Please don't undermine your position any more than you already have.

Interesting rankings, not much change since I'm still 13th and my Jeru FC is up 1 spot to 38 from 39.

Hmm... World Cup eh? I might be interested, however I Sel you have a telegram...

I was serious when I said I'd do this.

Emergency WCC Proposal AS413-B

Given Sel Appa's constant undermining and lack of respect to other parties;
Taking into account the matter at hand;
Considering that Sel has been told at least six times to stop being a nuisance;
And further taking into account Sel's past behaviour;

The Emergency World Cup Committee is called upon to decide on appropriate sanction on Sel Appa, be it a reprimand, KPB points penalty, suspension from hosting rights of any World Cup Committee-affiliated tournament, suspension from the World Cup Committee, or suspension from any World Cup Committee-affiliated tournament.

This proposal would require a simple majority of all EWCC members who vote on it.

I call on the WCC President to put this to a vote as soon as is feasible.

[OOC: As an aside to Sel, your response to Kry there is bordering really close on flaming. You're definitely trolling by now.]

Is there a rule stating BoF participants can't host a BoF?

I'm thinking of using my Puppet to host WC30 with either me or its neighboring nation Newmanistan.

Since everyone is adding their two cents to the discussion, I guess I'll add mine again...

It seems obvious at this point that on one hand, some people argue that if you can't be bothered to log on to your NS entity to keep your Jolt account alive, you shouldn't win an opportunity to qualify, even if the gods of randomness should decide so. On the other hand, some people argue that if your country is swept aside for reasons unknown, no force should penalize you.

Regardless of what vote gets passed, I don't think this argument is going to pass just as easily. On the contrary, as it is often in democratic societies, voting down a certain resolution/law/bill/whatever often makes things more rowdy and noisy, especially in the immediate moment. For that reason, I do not support passing anything that strictly changes anything. If anything does get passed, it's not going to solve much, and if nothing gets passed, it does absolutely nothing except to encourage the minority to continue their noise until change happens in their favor.

On the more substantive nature...

To punish a country that does not RP is absurd, since theoretically, the accumulation of RP points should already do that. If you want to make things fair for players that do RP, take away RP points and penalize the countries that don't RP. But expect to make the World Cup more painful for scorers. I don't think that anyone is looking for a way to penalize non-RPers, and if they are, I hope that they somehow fall victim to their proposal.

To punish a country that does not exist in IC is not absurd. If they can't exist to protest the action, why should we care what they feel? If a country is left for 28 days, it disappears; if that same country were in vacation mode, it would disappear after 60 days. Considering that most WC periods last about 60 days (the period from the WC38 final to the WC39 final was 78 days; from WC37 to WC38 was 56 days), there should be plenty of opportunity for any plain old RPer to set their country to vacation mode at least and then log in once every 60 days - theoretically, once every Cup. If you can't be bothered to protect yourself from extinction - which is by the conventions of a separate online entity, to which membership is a prerequisite for participation in these forums - why should we bother to keep you in our records? If you're sick, I'm sorry for your pain, but if you're sooo stuck in NS reality to forget your own mortality, I'd suggest visiting a psychiatrist before coming back. If you're away on a cruise and can't log in for two months, you need to re-learn the definition of "rest and relaxation." And echoing sentiments earlier expressed, it's just a game!

Consider this in real life. If you sign up for a tournament but don't show up for the event, do the organizers have any reason to keep you on the list of people, let alone let you qualify? To let an absent person participate in anything is absurd (unless it's in a courtroom, in which case most things there are absurd anyway...). Granted, it's hard to tell who's here and who's not with the Internet being so prominent, but of course, we can tell whose accounts are not active easily with a check on NS. Now, whether or not using NS as a reference is fair or not is another matter; and personally, considering that everyone here must have an NS account to participate actively, I think that it is a fair choice of reference. That said, membership in NS does not necessarily mean that you must follow your country's statistics as provided in NS - that said, making your country substantially more powerful than in NS statistics is considered bad karma in general as well (although older countries tend to have more slack...), so whether or not you're in II or NS or the new-and-unimproved WA, you're still stuck with the original framework of an NS country that is your imagination. Otherwise, I'd be waving out Korean flags and chanting Korean stuff, instead of this made-up Han stuff (despite living in America...). I'm sure most of us prefer our NS countries to those of the real world here, because it's why we're still sitting behind (or in front of?) the computer, reading this otherwise practical nonsense; after all, as is the dilemma posed to all nihilists, does it really matter in the end of things?

You have odd definitions of "rational" and "sensible".

A minority has the right to express its opinions on the matter at hand. That said, a person's definitions of "rational" and "sensible" are not up for debate.


And the manner in which both the Archregimancy and Newmanistan conducted their positions are - in my opinion - model position statements; for future reference, please consider them as a model. I applaud them for making a civilized statement with minimal excess, and I only wish that this statement were more in their manner (but alas, I can't keep a strict face and type about this - you just have to laugh a little).

Is there a rule stating BoF participants can't host a BoF?

I'm thinking of using my Puppet to host WC30 with either me or its neighboring nation Newmanistan.

I think it's now WC41, and I do believe that you must have at least participated in one WC-sponsored event before hosting anything - although I'm not the bearer of the WC Laws, so therefore cannot confer my answer with absolute certainty.

I was serious when I said I'd do this.

Emergency WCC Proposal AS413-B

Given Sel Appa's constant undermining and lack of respect to other parties;
Taking into account the matter at hand;
Considering that Sel has been told at least six times to stop being a nuisance;
And further taking into account Sel's past behaviour;

The Emergency World Cup Committee is called upon to decide on appropriate sanction on Sel Appa, be it a reprimand, KPB points penalty, suspension from hosting rights of any World Cup Committee-affiliated tournament, suspension from the World Cup Committee, or suspension from any World Cup Committee-affiliated tournament.

This proposal would require a simple majority of all EWCC members who vote on it.

I call on the WCC President to put this to a vote as soon as is feasible.

[OOC: As an aside to Sel, your response to Kry there is bordering really close on flaming. You're definitely trolling by now.]

erm......

If punishment is to be issued, I do believe that it should be a 2/3 majority, since disciplining a member should be more representative of international opinion than of a simple majority. That said, I'm not sure if punishment is the best option available.

As I'm not an EWCC member or a sponsor, I don't have any say whether this proposal is amended as such, but I strongly suggest it.

Is there a rule stating BoF participants can't host a BoF?

I'm thinking of using my Puppet to host WC30 with either me or its neighboring nation Newmanistan.

Whoa.....

While at some point I would have interest in hosting a World Cup related event, I have absolutely no intention of even thinking about making a bid for anything right now. In the future, please don't use my nation's name for something like this unless you have at least asked me, "Hey would you do this?" and I said that I would have interest.

Geographically, with your puppet also being in my region, it would have some logic, but if and when I ever did decide to bid it will be with an established World Cup nation.

I think it's now WC41, and I do believe that you must have at least participated in one WC-sponsored event before hosting anything - although I'm not the bearer of the WC Laws, so therefore cannot confer my answer with absolute certainty.

I ment BoF 30 >_< (two BoF's from now)

erm......

If punishment is to be issued, I do believe that it should be a 2/3 majority, since disciplining a member should be more representative of international opinion than of a simple majority. That said, I'm not sure if punishment is the best option available.

As I'm not an EWCC member or a sponsor, I don't have any say whether this proposal is amended as such, but I strongly suggest it.

The only aim of the proposal is to get Sel to shut up or at least behave properly. If he can't even accord others basic respect, he deserves none himself. Furthermore, to use 67% when fairly few EWCC members actively vote (look at the CoH: only 5 of 17 eligible [with six EWCC members ineligible to vote] voted) will be quite difficult. Happy to make it 60%.

Is there a rule stating BoF participants can't host a BoF?

I'm thinking of using my Puppet to host WC30 with either me or its neighboring nation Newmanistan.

Not as far as I am aware, but it is highly unlikely that someone without any (or with very little) experience being in the WC itself would be allowed to host a WCC-related tournament.

Actually I entered every WC from 12 to 30




And I couldn't RP for crap with any of them :p


Don't worry LE that will change ;)

The only aim of the proposal is to get Sel to shut up or at least behave properly. If he can't even accord others basic respect, he deserves none himself. Furthermore, to use 67% when fairly few EWCC members actively vote (look at the CoH: only 5 of 17 eligible [with six EWCC members ineligible to vote] voted) will be quite difficult. Happy to make it 60%.

I still say that I doubt that it would have the desired effects...

The art of rewards and punishments entails using it strictly. The longer an offense goes unpunished, the more severe the punishment is required to reverse it. And after 6 individual offenses, it might be pretty steep. If it's too steep, it will only devolve the person; if it's too shallow, it does nothing. I don't know Sel Appa personally, but it seems that simply penalizing his KPB ranks might not be enough.

As for the 60%, if you're willing to amend it, that would be better than a simple majority. As always, Athena will favor the innocent.

hey since everyone else is doing it heres my to sense, a 1909 peeny, and a Mercural worth a penny
hahahaa

That is, quite possibly, the most sensible and rational thing I have read in this thread this week.

*applauds*

I agree with ya there Kry, (early leader in the clubhouse for my nominee for next WC Prez: Newmanistan...)

...These PDFs are wonderful. Spreadsheets are too confusing and a pain in the Qazox.


HUH??? what the heack does that even mean? "pain in the Qazox?"

More like pain in the ASSegai Developments (where did they go anyway?) ;)

And I lost 0.55 KPB points, but still went up 2 KPB ranks... the KPB is a very weird fish indeed.

As for LE's suggestion... There have been times on this and the old thread when a few nations would have suggested to do to you and other countries what you are suggesting to do the Sel Appa, and it would have been voted down and you would have been laughed out of NS.

While I don't agree with all of what Sel Appa says, I am glad that there is at least ONE nation out there that has an opinion and isn't afraid to say it,though the means and tone of the opinions offered definately needs to be less confrontational.

IF LE's measure passes, it will set a very bad precident, which eventually might be used to 'BAN' cetain countries from even competing in the NSWC, and too be honest, we've hemorraged enough nations over the last couple of years to begin a path to exclusivity that will destroy this event we all love and participate in.

IF LE's measure passes, it will set a very bad precident, which eventually might be used to 'BAN' cetain countries from even competing in the NSWC, and too be honest, we've hemorraged enough nations over the last couple of years to begin a path to exclusivity that will destroy this event we all love and participate in.

I agree wholeheartedly. As much as I may have very, very vehemently disagreed with Sel over the last few days, I think that something like this should be an absolute last resort and is not necessary here.

You all seem to be totally missing the point. The point of not applying the rule IS TOTALLY UNRELATED TO THE NATION BEING DISQUALIFIED. Let me repeat that in big letters so everyone can stop talking about those nations:

This discussion has nothing to do with the nation being penalized

While I do think it's dumb to enforce a non-sense requirement that has nothing to do with the actual game, that's not the problem. Enforcing a rule that says if you're not an active nation at the time of doing the draws you can't take part I have basically no objection with. The problem is that once you've started the competition you've allowed them. Removing them afterwards penalizes EVERY nation in the competition who ISN'T in their group. Having a penalty like that is the equivalent of doing unbalanced group draws. And I don't belive for a second that anyone thinks unbalanced group draws are fair.

The only aim of the proposal is to get Sel to shut up or at least behave properly. If he can't even accord others basic respect, he deserves none himself. Furthermore, to use 67% when fairly few EWCC members actively vote (look at the CoH: only 5 of 17 eligible [with six EWCC members ineligible to vote] voted) will be quite difficult. Happy to make it 60%.

So wait, suddenly it's a crime to have a dissenting opinion? And stick with it? Well, damn.

Well, here's something that I think we can all agree is sensible: the new KPB rankings.

ods (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/WC40 Post-Qual Rankings.ods) | xls (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/WC40 Post-Qual Rankings.xls) | pdf (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/WC40 Post-Qual Rankings.pdf)

Yeah I managed to move up five spots. This new ranking will change however after the World Cup and Cup of Harmony won't it? I know it was told to me earlier but I can't find it in the thread but when calculating the KBP what are the numbers giving for a win in the CoH is it 1.5 and .75 for a draw or have I came pulled these numbers out of my ass

And I don't belive for a second that anyone thinks unbalanced group draws are fair.

There's nothing wrong with uneven groups, In fact we should have uneven groups once in while. I want exactly 97 signups for the next Cup, so we have uneven groups. <this paragraph is made in jest, frankly don't care who the group are, just as long as I have a chance to qualify, which is all that really matters.>

RL case in point: UEFA World Cup qualifers are all uneven groups, and no nations there seem to give a crap about it.

There's nothing wrong with uneven groups, In fact we should have uneven groups once in while. I want exactly 97 signups for the next Cup, so we have uneven groups. <this paragraph is made in jest, frankly don't care who the group are, just as long as I have a chance to qualify, which is all that really matters.>

RL case in point: UEFA World Cup qualifers are all uneven groups, and no nations there seem to give a crap about it.

I agree. I think that the only inconvenience that uneven groups gives us is that they make calculating the ranks much more difficult (since the number of qualifier matches influences the ranks too). Unfair? Perhaps, but considering everything else, I'd say it's also unfair that my score is a gross calculation of numbers and not 11 pairs of feet dribbling a ball; but I'm not going to complain.



As to the option of penalizing Sel Appa, I don't agree that he should be penalized (as should have been evident). On the one hand, it might not be enough. On the other hand, it's irresponsible, and not in the context that the WCC shouldn't be waving a paddle stick.

I neglected to mention earlier that it's irresponsible for us - as a community of "people" - to punish Sel Appa for OOC comments in an IC manner. Considering that the EWCC is an IC organization, using Sel Appa's OOC vulgarity as an excuse to punish him is wrong from any perspective. As the arguments have turned away from the matter more and more (and not just from Sel Appa's perspective, but from others as well - a reason why we should try to sit down and drink some tea), the incidence of personalization has increased. And from certain perspectives, the incidence of personal attacks have likewise increased. If we punish ICly the OOC actions for Sel Appa, we should also consider the same for any other person who has done the same.

Nonetheless, I'm not in any position to say what proposals are legal and what proposals are not; if a punishment is to be issued, however, it should not be the result of a simple majority of inclined persons deciding, because then it's just tyranny of the majority. And I still say that punishment by the standards offered will not likely result in a behavior modification, unless its severity is precisely calculated (and humans are too perky to be calculated easily). If anything, the punishments would probably lead to more incensed reactions and then a subsequent vacation of all his activities - and regardless of who you are (except maybe the victim of his ill-advised words) - Sel Appa does contribute to this community. In fact, his last RP makes an amusing use of the OOC conflict in an IC manner.

Therefore, if there is any organization dedicated to the regulation of conduct on this thread, it should be OOC, and it should be uniform (that is, don't wait 6 or 7 times before issuing a penalty). That said, we should all also be responsible members of the community and instead of threatening any member not inclined to argue politely or civilly, admonish him/her directly and explain the reason for the admonition.

If you're wondering the reason for this rather formally phrased dissertation, I'm also writing a bunch of other papers right now for school, so don't mind it at all! :D

Seeing vocal opposition from Qazox and Vephrall as well, I would also urge LE to retract their proposal in lieu of a better placed policy.

hey since everyone else is doing it heres my to sense, a 1909 peeny, and a Mercural worth a penny
hahahaa

At least I gave some sense, whereas you only gave cents. (yet one wonders where two cents came from...)

At least I gave some sense, whereas you only gave cents. (yet one wonders where two cents came from...)

Well don't blame taeshan, he probably misheard it. :D

RL case in point: UEFA World Cup qualifers are all uneven groups, and no nations there seem to give a crap about it.

You find me a UEFA world cup qualifier where one group has disproportionally fewer high ranked teams than the others. UEFA groups don't have the same number of teams, although they have close. But the difference is that the groups with extra have an extra bottom-feeder, so that there's not much difference in the schedule. But if the deal was there were 10 groups and one had 4 of the top 30 teams in Europe 9 had 3 of the top 30 team in Europe and one had 2 of the top 30 teams in Europe I think you'd see a lot more complaining. And that's like what happens in our cup when all of a sudden a second or third seed disappears.

RL case in point: UEFA World Cup qualifers are all uneven groups, and no nations there seem to give a crap about it.

UEFA World Cup... no such thing :p

That said, we should all also be responsible members of the community and instead of threatening any member not inclined to argue politely or civilly, admonish him/her directly and explain the reason for the admonition.

We tried that. I mentioned earlier (when I first said 'the next one to go on about this should be penalised', a few days ago) that the argument needed to stop and a proposal had to be made.

A proposal was made.

The argument, for the most part, petered out, as both Az and Sel expressed support for it.

Very civilly, Newmanistan and Krytenia made points. And then Sel Appa came in all guns charging again.

We did tell Sel to shut up and get on with it. Obviously it didn't work. When it doesn't work, the next natural step is to take it to the next level, in this case a proposal sanctioning him. I don't expect - and perhaps I don't want - the proposal to pass. Qazox is right that we've lost enough members. What I want the proposal to do is send a message.

I just hope Sel gets that message.

Just to throw yet more deliberation into the mix:

Via TG, Scotchpinestan has essentially said to me "I shouldn't be taking the spot of a team that's more deserving. Please take me out." and I can't persuade him otherwise.

So, as per a direct withdrawal request, there is now ONE REMAINING SPACE in the 40th World Cup Finals. The options are varied, and none of them that particular combination of quick, simple and non-controversial. I'd be open to others' suggestions though, before I have a chat with Kry tonight about precisely what to do.
1) Lovisa (the team that lost to Scotchpinestan in the playoffs) advances.

2) Green Wombat (the team that Scotchpinestan beat to clinch a playoff spot) plays Lovisa in a CoH-to-WC advancement match.

3) The non-qualifying team with the best Qualiyfing record advances (Sorthern Northland, 22 points +8 GD).

4 a) The fifteen teams who did not qualify Play-off again for the one spot in a mini-tournament. Straight knockout, Swiss(?) or similar.
4 b) Fifteen teams + Green Wombat (see 2) play-off again for the one spot in a mini-tournament. Straight knockout, Swiss(?) or similar.

5) Other (write in your answer).

Just to throw yet more deliberation into the mix:

Via TG, Scotchpinestan has essentially said to me "I shouldn't be taking the spot of a team that's more deserving. Please take me out." and I can't persuade him otherwise.

So, as per a direct withdrawal request, there is now ONE REMAINING SPACE in the 40th World Cup Finals. The options are varied, and none of them that particular combination of quick, simple and non-controversial. I'd be open to others' suggestions though, before I have a chat with Kry tonight about precisely what to do.
1) Lovisa (the team that lost to Scotchpinestan in the playoffs) advances.

2) Green Wombat (the team that Scotchpinestan beat to clinch a playoff spot) plays Lovisa in a CoH-to-WC advancement match.

3) The non-qualifying team with the best Qualiyfing record advances (Sorthern Northland, 22 points +8 GD).

4 a) The fifteen teams who did not qualify Play-off again for the one spot in a mini-tournament. Straight knockout, Swiss(?) or similar.
4 b) Fifteen teams + Green Wombat (see 2) play-off again for the one spot in a mini-tournament. Straight knockout, Swiss(?) or similar.

5) Other (write in your answer).

I'd say hosts' discretion, but if you're asking for views I'd have Green Wombat and Lovisa play-off for Scotchpinestan's spot.

I'd say hosts' discretion...

Well we did that with the CTE nations, and look where that got us... :rolleyes:

Just canvassing opinion atm.

Option 4 is definitely the best of those options. It's definitely the fairest option that doesn't reward anyone too much for having the good luck to be placed in competition with them.

Surely Lovisa should just take their place, in a Yugoslavia/Denmark-type-situation. Or would that be just too simple?

My thoughts on the options:

1) Not really the most fair way as Lovisa was just opportunistic to have that matchup.
2) Better option the #1
3) The most fair!
4) The most fun!
5) The reigning Baptism of Fire champion gets the spot ;)

So are we going for fairness or for fun, I say #4. Though I like #5!

Option 4 is definitely the best of those options. It's definitely the fairest option that doesn't reward anyone too much for having the good luck to be placed in competition with them.
Aye; we wouldn’t want anyone to qualify through good luck. ;)

To me, having the “good luck” to be drawn with a team that ends up unexpectedly withdrawing or ceasing to exist isn’t much different than having the “good luck” to be drawn with a team that ends up unexpectedly getting bad results à la Sel Appa in WC39.

I support having Lovisa advance.

I regret that I may have misread some of the earlier posts in this thread (I could only skim given the limited time I had), and may have misunderstood what some people were proposing while being misunderstood myself in turn.

To clarify several outstanding points (some of them ones I inadvertently raised myself):

1) I have no problems with hosts imposing penalties on nations that cease to exist as the hosts see fit, though I would always recommend considering exercising a certain level of discretion if that nation is subsequently reactivated within 24-48 hours.

2) No penalties should be imposed on nations that don't RP so long as they remain active; the loss of RP bonus is penalty enough.

3) My recommendation over the Scotchpinestan quandry is to give their spot to the team most actively following the strictures of Orthodox Lent, which means..... No. Seriously, I'd give their spot to Lovisa under the straight Yugoslavia/Denmark model (as noted by C&M).

4) Some people are far too hysterical in this forum. 'Grip', 'get' and 'a' come to mind, though not necessarily in that order.

5) I make no claims to being 'sensible', or to supporting any particular side in an argument, and nothing I've written should be considered an endorsement of any other nation's position in this forum unless I explicitly state as much.

And that's literally my last word for a few days. I doubt I'll have 'recreational' internet access now until Saturday at the earliest, and possibly not until Monday. I have just enough time now to dash off a quick AIF RP before temporarily vanishing again.

I'd give it to Lovisa. Everything about the WC we play in is about luck (group draw, scores, ending up with a nation that expi - ok that's enough, Bos, considering one of the expired nations was a joint-puppet of mine that I thought joint-owner would log into while I was in Vegas though yes I could have logged in at some point beforehand but obviously never), and it just happened that Lovisa was lucky enough to end up drawn against Scotchpinestan.

I support Option 4b, which is how a similar situation was handled in World Cup 5 (co-host Al Quds CTE'd at the end of qualifying, leaving a spot open; the eight 4th-placed teams were put into a straight knockout, winner taking Al Quds' spot). 4b over 4a primarily because it creates a nice power-of-two field in a way that makes sense.

I'd go for Option 2 for fill the last spot.

Amid all this bickering, can I please ask that today, April 15, everyone take a bit of time to remember those who perished at Hillsborough 19 years ago.

Justice for the 96. You'll Never Walk Alone.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b68/NSLE/Picture3.png

Option 2 is the fairest way to handle the situation.

The problem with option 4 is that it 's basically another 4 days (at least) that the world cup is delayed. You've got to do the 16 teams, work out a reasonably fair order of fixtures, scorinate the 4 days of matches and then alter the lists whatever you use for the World Cup Draw.

I have no issues with options 1 through 3 but I would prefer 2 or 3

For me, Lovisa deserves the spot.

For me, Lovisa deserves the spot.

I agree; option #1

Amid all this bickering, can I please ask that today, April 15, everyone take a bit of time to remember those who perished at Hillsborough 19 years ago.

Justice for the 96. You'll Never Walk Alone.

Amen. Rest in peace. You blokes just beat my beloved Arsenal, but I'll still be behind you and you alone in the rest of the Champion's League.

PS - My vote, for whatever it's worth, is in for option 4B. If the delay is a problem for either of the hosts, then that would be a valid reason for not wanting to do a knockout or something, but otherwise I figure none of us have any entitlement to dictate when the WC should or shouldn't start.

The problem with option 4 is that it 's basically another 4 days (at least) that the world cup is delayed. You've got to do the 16 teams, work out a reasonably fair order of fixtures, scorinate the 4 days of matches and then alter the lists whatever you use for the World Cup Draw.

OOCly, that whole thing could be scorinated in one day for the sake of moving the Cup along. It wouldn't be entirely fair to accumulate RP bonus during this second playoff, since none of the other nations would have a chance to do so, so (scorination-wise, anyway) there's no particular reason to draw it out.

four, 4, Vier

After some careful consideration, and taking note of all the opinions received, we have decided on the following:

Green Wombat will play Lovisa at the handily-made-available neutral venue of The Zydrakos Dome in Yafor 2. The winner of this one-match play-off will go to the World Cup Finals, while the loser will not, and will be treated like any World Cup non-qualifier (i.e. a CoH invite stands if they have RPd).

This match will take place around this time tomorrow (Wednesday), withthe WC40 Finals Group draw taking place the day after (Thursday, if you're not keeping up).

hey since everyone else is doing it heres my to sense, a 1909 peeny, and a Mercural worth a penny
hahahaaI must admit, that was very clever. There's hope yet for you.

At least I gave some sense, whereas you only gave cents. (yet one wonders where two cents came from...)

"Put my two cents in" originates from the older "put my two bits in" and has its origin in the game of poker. When playing poker you have to make a small bet before the cards are dealt called an "ante" to begin play in that hand.

This phrase draws an analogy to the poker ante (two bits) and gains your entry into the conversation.

I just hope Sel gets that message.
For the record, I just decided to give it up after closing a tab that was a quoted reply from a Dae post about this. All you did was make me want to pull out from the Cup.

snipple
5. Allow Naboombu Umbongo to play. They won their group.

What does he mean by "more deserving"...

I'd give it to Lovisa. Everything about the WC we play in is about luck (group draw, scores, ending up with a nation that expi - ok that's enough, Bos, considering one of the expired nations was a joint-puppet of mine that I thought joint-owner would log into while I was in Vegas though yes I could have logged in at some point beforehand but obviously never), and it just happened that Lovisa was lucky enough to end up drawn against Scotchpinestan.
Engbec?

Amid all this bickering, can I please ask that today, April 15, everyone take a bit of time to remember those who perished at Hillsborough 19 years ago.

Justice for the 96. You'll Never Walk Alone.
Is that the riot or whatever that caused an uproar in the old DT when someone used a pic of it in an RP?

I don't really have any relation to it, so my sympathies and/or condolences would be empty.

Is that the riot or whatever that caused an uproar in the old DT when someone used a pic of it in an RP?

I don't really have any relation to it, so my sympathies and/or condolences would be empty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_Disaster

Alright, I'm getting antsy about all of this.

@ Sel Appa: Please, please, please, please, please stop. That one remark of the Hillsborough Disaster was particularly insensitive (although I'm not personally one to favor Liverpool or anything...). On another note, thanks for the quidbit on two cents.

@ Yafor 2 hiding as Gupty Dynasty: Sel Appa was offering an alternative option, as requested by Starbladyia originally. Pithily, I might add. As to the addendum, that was perhaps unnecessary.

@ LE: As I mentioned, I can't say much about the proposal itself, since I'm neither a sponsor nor a deciding member. I just hope that you do realize what sort of effort that will do to Sel, and perhaps to the rest of us.

@ Starblaydia: Although it's too late to make a difference, I do believe that you made the right decision. As much as all of those 14 other teams might have made a difference, in relation to the group structures, they had little relevance, since Scotchpinestan (as far as I am aware) did not influence to qualification ability of those teams.

@ everyone: I hope that we're not reverting to old habits, so let's take a moment or two to take a big breath and smell some nasty roses. Inhale the putrid smell of rotting plant and fungus infestation, and let's take a fresh look at everything.

Nothing more needs to be said - nearly all of the positions have been elicited, and if we try and duke it out any more, we'll be frenzied sharks huddling on a mass of flesh already picked to the bone. Pretty soon, we'll start picking each other.

Cue that picture!

http://www.jon-schmid.com/sharks/frenzy1x.jpg

@ me: GET OFF THIS %$#^ING COMPUTER AND GET BACK TO WORK! *shudders at the thought of talking to self on computer*

@ Yafor 2 hiding as Gupty Dynasty: Sel Appa was offering an alternative option, as requested by Starbladyia originally. Pithily, I might add. As to the addendum, that was perhaps unnecessary.

Yeah, you're right. I've deleted my original post. :)

Me thinks Lovisa should get the berth (I have no idea why Scotchpinistan would willingly forgo a World Cup berth, but why not?)

Me thinks Lovisa should get the berth (I have no idea why Scotchpinistan would willingly forgo a World Cup berth, but why not?)

guilty conscience?

Amid all this bickering, can I please ask that today, April 15, everyone take a bit of time to remember those who perished at Hillsborough 19 years ago.

Justice for the 96. You'll Never Walk Alone.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b68/NSLE/Picture3.png

Hear Hear. RIP 96

guilty conscience?

What guilty conscience?

What guilty conscience?

I don't know - ask Scotchpinestan...

maybe you're guilty and want to give it up to me?

I suppose if they don't care I'm not going to make a big fuss of arguing it for them, but I know that if I was one of the teams who lost in the playoffs I'd be PISSED OFF about Green Wombat or Lovisa making the cup like that.

And group draw is different than scores in that scores are affected by things other than random numbers. Of course its random but its less random and we can put in effort to effect it. To lose to 100% randomness is annyoing. While randomness is an important and necessary part of the cup we should try to minimize the arbitrariness of it.

Great.. now I'm going to have teams mad at me worse than when I qualifed for back-ti-back World Cups (#'s 34 and 35) w/o RPing anything.

If anything I would have just given the spot to Lovisa, as they earned it more than I did.

I don't know - ask Scotchpinestan...

maybe you're guilty and want to give it up to me?

HUH???

Daehan, I have no idea what you are talking about, and that's saying something.

@ Az-cz: Beg your pardon, but simply stating that is making a fuss. It seems counterproductive to say that you won't make a fuss.

Nonetheless, life itself is pretty random.

Lightning strikes happen by chance, but you can't avoid certain natural biases that influence how and why lightning does strike.

It's completely random that one of the qualified countries for the World Cup decides to drop out; why should we assume that if that one country had not participated in the whole event that any of the other teams would be affected by it? As it stands, the two countries that are most affected by Scotchpinestan's presence are Lovisa - eliminated in the play-offs - and Green Wombat - eliminated in the Group Stage.

If you want fair and unbiased, we could simply pull names (rather one name) from a hat.

HUH???

Daehan, I have no idea what you are talking about, and that's saying something.

You English no speak?

Great.. now I'm going to have teams mad at me worse than when I qualifed for back-ti-back World Cups (#'s 34 and 35) w/o RPing anything.

If anything I would have just given the spot to Lovisa, as they earned it more than I did.

Well, if you want to avoid the arguments, you could voluntarily drop out of the race and leave it to the host's discretion. Not that I'm encouraging you to do that.

I don't know - ask Scotchpinestan...

maybe you're guilty and want to give it up to me?

Ok. you want me to Drop out of the World Cup then?

Is that what you are asking?

not gonna happen.

unless i get a written contract from the hosts of World Cups 41 through 44 stating that Qazox is guarenteed to win the Cup.

Ok. you want me to Drop out of the World Cup then?

Is that what you are asking?

not gonna happen.

unless i get a written contract from the hosts of World Cups 41 through 44 stating that Qazox is guarenteed to win the Cup.

A perfect reason to vote for me for WC41 hosting, because I will guarantee that Qazox will win the Cups from 41 to infinity!!!!!!!!!!!

FYI - if you really believe me, perhaps a visit to the dictionary, looking up the term "facetious" will do well to clear any misconceptions, followed by a subsequent bashing of the head with the said dictionary. And no, I'm not running for WC41 host; no, I'm not asking Qazox to leave, especially as I'm already qualified already, and taking yet another person out of the World Cup wouldn't solve anything; no, I'm not a gregarious old mindwarper wasting his life in front of a computer typing senseless nonsense for about 168 other people (of whom, more than half never even read it, and half of the half ever care to read it, and half of the half of the half know what I'm talking).

And if you want to know pain, I'd be a willing instructor of it.

I've got to disappear... somehow...

I suppose if they don't care I'm not going to make a big fuss of arguing it for them, but I know that if I was one of the teams who lost in the playoffs I'd be PISSED OFF about Green Wombat or Lovisa making the cup like that.


As one of the teams that lost in the playoffs, I can't say I'm terribly in favor of it, but I can accept the fact that the majority wishes that to be the case.

Though it made me think.... if Bostopia had come on here and informed us that he hit a huge jackpot on his Las Vegas vacation and was withdrawing, allowing me to get in, I really wouldn't want to make the Cup in that manner. I would feel that my spot was most earned if I won the 16-team playoff that was proposed.

I think the allow Sorthern Northland to be the team has been a little overlooked here, personally.

But what's done is done.

Dae,

I have to say something. The way its being done isn't the most fair way it could be done. It places too much importance on something the players have 0% control over. The relevance of things we have no control over should be as small as possible.

But I won't make as big of a deal out of it as I would if there were players on here who were really upset about it. Or if it was me getting screwed. If I was one of the playoff teams you can bet I'd be much much louder with my complaints.

why should we assume that if that one country had not participated in the whole event that any of the other teams would be affected by it? As it stands, the two countries that are most affected by Scotchpinestan's presence are Lovisa - eliminated in the play-offs - and Green Wombat - eliminated in the Group Stage.

That's wrong on two levels. Of course it would be different. The whole group draw would've been different. Everything would've been different. But also its totally irrelevant. Neither Green Wombat nor Lovisa has done anything more to prove they're worthy than the other teams. They're just being offered an easier path to the finals than everyone else.

Though it made me think.... if Bostopia had come on here and informed us that he hit a huge jackpot on his Las Vegas vacation and was withdrawing

That'd have been something, I didn't gamble a cent :p Congrats on getting that far though, I wish you every success. (Also, I think you got the first recorded standing ovation for a foreign team in Bostopia, hope that means something to you)

That'd have been something, I didn't gamble a cent :p Congrats on getting that far though, I wish you every success. (Also, I think you got the first recorded standing ovation for a foreign team in Bostopia, hope that means something to you)

I'd be all over the casinos if I were there.
We did appreciate the ovation, it was a nice touch there at the end, the players will speak very positively of it when I do my first CoH roleplay. Our fans also noticed and will be supporting your team in the Cup.

I'd be all over the casinos if I were there.
We did appreciate the ovation, it was a nice touch there at the end, the players will speak very positively of it when I do my first CoH roleplay. Our fans also noticed and will be supporting your team in the Cup.

Gambling really isn't my thing, apart from a flutter on the Grand National and the yearly £5 bet/give away of money on the Dolphins winning the Superbowl at the start of every season. From an OOC perspective, the ovation was me recognising you RP'ed well in my eyes, and gave very fair coverage of our playoff games. From an IC perspective, it was the fans congratulating you on getting that far and giving us a good challenge to the point of beating us inside "our house" (which a lot of teams have done to be fair, but you guys were new and didn't actually humiliate us as we still went through, despite the loss).

Amid all this bickering, can I please ask that today, April 15, everyone take a bit of time to remember those who perished at Hillsborough 19 years ago.

My cousin's husband is a Scouser and Red through and through (he named their daughter after a midfielder...). He was in the Leppings Lane end about an hour before kick-off. His mates said "come on, we'll get a better view around the side", he said "no, I prefer it behind the goal", but they eventually decided to move...that may have saved his life.

Dae,

I have to say something. The way its being done isn't the most fair way it could be done. It places too much importance on something the players have 0% control over. The relevance of things we have no control over should be as small as possible.

But I won't make as big of a deal out of it as I would if there were players on here who were really upset about it. Or if it was me getting screwed. If I was one of the playoff teams you can bet I'd be much much louder with my complaints.

That's wrong on two levels. Of course it would be different. The whole group draw would've been different. Everything would've been different. But also its totally irrelevant. Neither Green Wombat nor Lovisa has done anything more to prove they're worthy than the other teams. They're just being offered an easier path to the finals than everyone else.

I don't doubt that this is the most fair way to do things: weeding 80+ teams through a qualifying system that rounds out the top 32 players based on numbers - let alone two of those teams don't even go through the qualification process at all. The fairest way to do it is by lottery; every team is equal and has no bias whatsoever.

Unfortunately, I don't think many people will appreciate that, because then no one (except the hosts) has control over anything. The truth is that the less that people can control, the fairer it is.

And as to your remarks on the relevance of the group draw, I agree - neither Lovisa nor Green Wombat have proven that they're worthier than the other teams. But as it so happens, your assumption that the Group Draw would be any different without Scotchpinestan is not entirely valid. True, there would be difference, but given that the Group Draw occurred in the manner that it did (i.e. it already happened; hence barring the ability for time travel, there is no real alternative); if not Scotchpinestan, someone else would have taken that spot in the Group that inevitably led to Green Wombat missing the opportunity to qualify in the Group Stage. If not Scotchpinestan, someone else would have been slotted to play-off against Lovisa that led to their elimination. Hence, since they are the two teams most affected by the withdrawal, they are the two teams that should have played off for that last spot.

Is it fair to the other teams? No. Nothing here is absolutely fair. I personally would have preferred Candelaria and Marquez, Sorthern Northland, and Newmanistan to be in the World Cup Finals, but as it so happens, they played against other teams that proved to be "better on the field" (all imagined, of course, since in reality, a computer computed their chances of winning and gave it scores). However, given the circumstances, parsimony suggests making the simplest adjustment to rectify an error. I doubt many England fans would be happy to know that if Croatia conceded their spot in EURO2008, that they (England) would be sent through another playoff round with 16 other teams simply to fill that spot.

Nonetheless, it seems that we don't quite share the same beliefs of time and determinism; I suspect that you will argue that the alternative realities that existed before the World Cup Qualification Group Draws are still valid and real today, and thus removing Scotchpinestan would affect the Group Draws, potentially putting Green Wombat into tougher Groups (or easier...), skewing the ability of any of the Hosts to make a valid replacement. In that case, since the Group Draws would have been constructed differently without Scotchpinestan, why not redo the entire Qualification process again, since some of those other teams that did not qualify could have qualified as well? It is entirely possible that those teams qualified at the expense of some of those that qualified this time around. After all, it would allow the hosts to correct some of those grievances caused by the estrangements that occurred recently.

As to earning the right to qualify - my lads, I don't think anyone "earns" the right to qualify any more than anyone has the right to qualify, but that's for another lecture, another day.

Erm... Casari, do you want to RP the Mujeongbu Inquisition with you, or am I liberty to do as I please with the criminals? I promise no one else will die (except the criminals of course, but that's at your discretion, as I mentioned), and there will be no more incidents involving random people walking with exploding suitcases, random people walking with exploding Chinese food, random people wearing exploding pants, random people doing stuff with explosives, or just explosive in general. No more of your citizens will be killed (except the criminals, at your discretion again...), and my interrogator will be supervising your interrogations and at times may engage in "forceful persuasion" of the subjects at hand. I remind you that the Mujeongbu are considered "non-human entities" by the Imperial Government and are therefore not subject to any existing international agreements concerning the rights of human life (if any such agreements are upheld by the Casaran government as well...).

Anyway, I'd just figure every matchday could be an opportunity to interrogate another prisoner.

@ Sel Appa: Please, please, please, please, please stop. That one remark of the Hillsborough Disaster was particularly insensitive (although I'm not personally one to favor Liverpool or anything...). On another note, thanks for the quidbit on two cents.
How can I express sincere sympathy if I have no idea what went down? Let's let this rest before more feelings are inflamed.


In other news, I have the following proposal:
Proposal 99B/ΔΦΓ3-22X
World Cup 40 is hereby regarded as the most controversial World Cup ever or since whenever the last most controversial World Cup was.

How can I express sincere sympathy if I have no idea what went down? Let's let this rest before more feelings are inflamed.


In other news, I have the following proposal:

39?

How can I express sincere sympathy if I have no idea what went down?

Well, let's pull out ye olde book on good things:

If you can say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

Ignorance is not an excuse for insensitivity; if you bothered to say anything, you should have bothered to know about what you're speaking.

That said, I think you'd better hold off on that proposal until after WC41, because someone's going to find WC41 more controversial than WC40.

That said, I think you'd better hold off on that proposal until after WC41, because someone's going to find WC41 more controversial than WC40.

Hell I'm still pissed off how i was jobbed out of World Cup 29 by losing to Bostopia of all damn teams. and the fact i missed out on signing up for Wc26 and the corresponding BoF by a day.

But that is in the past... and I'm mostly over it.

My last WC RP is an IC response to all this OOC controversy over Scotchpineistan withdrawing from the World Cup.

BTW, WHY DID THEY? I haven't seen a reason posted yet.

BTW2, like my new sig??? ;)

My last WC RP is an IC response to all this OOC controversy over Scotchpineistan withdrawing from the World Cup.

BTW, WHY DID THEY? I haven't seen a reason posted yet.

BTW2, like my new sig??? ;)

Apparently "they didn't feel deserving"

Apparently "they didn't feel deserving"

OK.... Sorry they felt that way.

My last WC RP is an IC response to all this OOC controversy over Scotchpineistan withdrawing from the World Cup.

BTW, WHY DID THEY? I haven't seen a reason posted yet.

BTW2, like my new sig??? ;)

GW.. WOW, what a sig!!!! NOT!

But glad u made the Cup, now there's 3 class of 27'ers in the Cup again :)

OK.... Sorry they felt that way.

Oh, here's the version with spelling errors fixed
Qualified for World Cup 40, amidst much controversy over the withdrawal of Scotchpinistan.

Qualified for World Cup 40, amidst much controversy over the withdrawal of Scotchpinistan.

"'Much controversy"? For fuck's sake... I opened the floor to opinions and took what was roughly the majority view into account. Obviously with five or more different options there was never going to be a total consensus, but it's not Spaamgate, for crying out loud.

(Check the wiki (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/spaamgate.html) for that little doozy, kiddies)

Another sellout crowd at Ellime e Vephrall saw the home team pull off a 1-0 victory over Starblaydia

Erm, you won 3-2?

"'Much controversy"? For fuck's sake... I opened the floor to opinions and took what was roughly the majority view into account. Obviously with five or more different options there was never going to be a total consensus, but it's not Spaamgate, for crying out loud.

(Check the wiki (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/spaamgate.html) for that little doozy, kiddies)


I was only correcting the spelling errors in Green Wombat's siggy, don't shout at me.

I was only correcting the spelling errors in Green Wombat's siggy, don't shout at me.

Ah it wasn't at you, I don't have sigs switched on anyways. Most likely directed at Sel/Az & co, you just happened to have the soundbyte in your post. Sorry, Jer.

Ah it wasn't at you, I don't have sigs switched on anyways. Most likely directed at Sel/Az & co, you just happened to have the soundbyte in your post. Sorry, Jer.

Pays to read a bit more carefully. Sometimes we jump the gun a bit :)

I personally would have preferred ... Newmanistan to be in the World Cup Finals

Oh, ta :p

I doubt many England fans would be happy to know that if Croatia conceded their spot in EURO2008, that they (England) would be sent through another playoff round with 16 other teams simply to fill that spot.

Nope, we wouldn't be happy, because we'd end up playing Scotland in the playoff final and losing, giving us much more to be lol'ed at about than we already are being.

Also: Heya Qazox!

"'Much controversy"? For fuck's sake... I opened the floor to opinions and took what was roughly the majority view into account. Obviously with five or more different options there was never going to be a total consensus, but it's not Spaamgate, for crying out loud.

(Check the wiki (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/spaamgate.html) for that little doozy, kiddies)



Erm, you won 3-2?

Yeah, I got slightly confused by not having the matches in my spreadsheet in the same order as they were in the scores thread; I also briefly had the K-P game down as a 3-2 win as a result.

世界足球高颇四十

<snip>

韩京 9光武年-时间上来，有星罢亚和开弹压在同各给世界足球高颇每一个最好队

<snip>

Hmm, very interesting transliterations of "Starblaydia" and "Krytenia" there, Dae.

"开弹压" for Krytenia I can sort of get, but I am intrigued that you used the actual word for "Star", 星, which is "xing" in pinyin instead of something like "斯达" (si da)...

If I had to transliterate them I'd do "斯达布雷底亚" (Si da bu lei di ya) and "刻来低坭压" (Ke lai di ni ya). Perhaps a bit long, so "斯达布亚" and "刻低压" ("Si da bu ya" and "Ke di ya") for short? Or even better, "星国" (Star country). :D

Also, for what it's worth, "世界足球杯" works for "Football World Cup", using the actual word for "cup".

(As an aside, Liventia is 里温硖 — "li wen xia" and Ad'ihan is 阿敌汉 — "a di han"... and the direct translation of Ad'ihan [阿 has no real translation and is just a sound] — "enemy Han Chinese" — is not intended. Besides, I'm ethnically Han Chinese myself...)

The draw is still on for tonight, right (this afternoon for us yanks, I suppose)?

Unfortunately, I don't think many people will appreciate that, because then no one (except the hosts) has control over anything. The truth is that the less that people can control, the fairer it is.

That's the least fair. Teams who put in the effort to RP alot deserve a better chance at success. And teams who have put in the work in the past deserve a better chance at success. The idea is that the more control people have over something the fairer it is. All teams aren't equal so they shouldn't be given equal chances.

And as to your remarks on the relevance of the group draw, I agree - neither Lovisa nor Green Wombat have proven that they're worthier than the other teams. But as it so happens, your assumption that the Group Draw would be any different without Scotchpinestan is not entirely valid. True, there would be difference, but given that the Group Draw occurred in the manner that it did (i.e. it already happened; hence barring the ability for time travel, there is no real alternative); if not Scotchpinestan, someone else would have taken that spot in the Group that inevitably led to Green Wombat missing the opportunity to qualify in the Group Stage. If not Scotchpinestan, someone else would have been slotted to play-off against Lovisa that led to their elimination. Hence, since they are the two teams most affected by the withdrawal, they are the two teams that should have played off for that last spot.

Are you even reading what you're writing? Everything your writing is exactly why all the teams should be eligible. If it wasn't for Scotchpinestan a different team would have had a chance to beat Green Wombat and a different team would've had a chance to be Lovisa. But they were denied that chance because of the existence of Scotchpinestan. So they should be granted the chance they didn't get cause of Scotchpinestan's existence.

Is it fair to the other teams? No. Nothing here is absolutely fair. I personally would have preferred Candelaria and Marquez, Sorthern Northland, and Newmanistan to be in the World Cup Finals, but as it so happens, they played against other teams that proved to be "better on the field" (all imagined, of course, since in reality, a computer computed their chances of winning and gave it scores).

That's exactly the point. It should be decided by what's "proven on the field". Lovisa and Green Wombat didn't prove on the field they're deserving of the spot.

However, given the circumstances, parsimony suggests making the simplest adjustment to rectify an error. I doubt many England fans would be happy to know that if Croatia conceded their spot in EURO2008, that they (England) would be sent through another playoff round with 16 other teams simply to fill that spot.

And I doubt fans of other nations that finished in third place would be happy to see that a team that did NOTHING more to qualify than their country did gets a free pass to the tournament.

Nonetheless, it seems that we don't quite share the same beliefs of time and determinism; I suspect that you will argue that the alternative realities that existed before the World Cup Qualification Group Draws are still valid and real today, and thus removing Scotchpinestan would affect the Group Draws, potentially putting Green Wombat into tougher Groups (or easier...), skewing the ability of any of the Hosts to make a valid replacement. In that case, since the Group Draws would have been constructed differently without Scotchpinestan, why not redo the entire Qualification process again, since some of those other teams that did not qualify could have qualified as well? It is entirely possible that those teams qualified at the expense of some of those that qualified this time around. After all, it would allow the hosts to correct some of those grievances caused by the estrangements that occurred recently.

Time is the obvious reason. But doing the 16 team playoffs wouldn't take that much time.

As to earning the right to qualify - my lads, I don't think anyone "earns" the right to qualify any more than anyone has the right to qualify, but that's for another lecture, another day.

Of course they do. People who put in more effort are more deserving of qualification than people who don't. Thankfully the system is fairly well designed so that over the long run those people are rewarded.

WORLD CUP FINALS DRAW
@ The Southern Centre, Ousevale, Krytenia

LIVE! on #nssport

2100 UTC (1700 Eastern, 2200 UK)

*turns on tv*

Well, i'm ready for it!

I would like to run for a posibble, host of the next BoF, and before Liventia or LE gets under my grill i would like to state that this does not include me scorinator. Host doesn't mean i have to do that. But maybe it does. Well anyways i was thinking of a joint bid with another nation, were thay do scorinations, and i Host so to speak. As in i provide stadium, and Do the threads, and stuff like that, Because my computer is physically challenged if you get my drift.(it sucks majorally)

I think the unfortunate truth of this whole thing is that life is unfair and weird results happen. As long as there is randomness in the system, THIS AND THINGS LIKE IT WILL HAPPEN. There is no such thing as a perfect system, only one that usually performs as expected. I understand how Scotch feels, but I don't think he should've dropped out any more than Green Wombat or Lovisa should've gotten another shot. The format is what it is, and he got a third place and then beat a good Lovisa team from an uncontroversial group. As far as I'm concerned, he earned it.

The obvious follow up - "Well, Dancougar, look at you sitting pretty in the cup. Did you earn that spot?" Define 'earn.' If we look at the format which was handed to us, then yes, I earned the spot. I got a third and then beat my playoff opponent. That's what was asked of us. It seems to me, though, that we're defining it based on the other teams that lost out. There are very good teams that got tough draws because, given the teams in the pool, the random pairing had a great potential to create unbalanced matches.

I remember someone said at the beginning of this mess that quirky results would carry more weight in qualifying since we were only playing ten games. And so you end up with ones like mine - all credit to KaMaRi for finishing second in their group, but #52 vs #53 for a spot while Vephrall and Southern Northland do battle? This does look bad, but we call it unfair because Vephrall and Southern Northland are two teams that we expect to qualify at the expense of a Dancougar or a KaMaRi. But sometimes Liverpool draws Chelsea. Sometimes Croatia is better than England. There are no guarantees, and we should stop judging the system and the results assuming that there are.

Now onto the subject of disappearing nations. In my mind, 'World Cup' implies that the participants are a member of the world community, by whatever definition is agreed upon. By playing here on the NS forums, we've agreed that being a member of the world community entails an account on Nationstates, because otherwise we wouldn't be on these forums, we'd be somewhere else where anyone can just sign up and go. If one account lapses, both lapse. And if a nation which disappears does not reactivate itself or create a successor in the time frame of the tournament, they're no longer a part of the world community and therefore can no longer compete.

For what it's worth, I'll get blown out of the water in the first round of the Cup proper and the Cup of Harmony will be filled with hard-fought matches that sees the likes of Southern Northland, C&M, Newmanistan, Kura-Pelland, and so on all do battle to maintain form and ranking.

I would like to run for a posibble, host of the next BoF, and before Liventia or LE gets under my grill i would like to state that this does not include me scorinator. Host doesn't mean i have to do that. But maybe it does. Well anyways i was thinking of a joint bid with another nation, were thay do scorinations, and i Host so to speak. As in i provide stadium, and Do the threads, and stuff like that, Because my computer is physically challenged if you get my drift.(it sucks majorally)

You know, I don't think this has been done before. Personally, I see no reason against this - however, I don't see it as experience for you due to the fact you wouldn't be scorinating. Might give you some idea of the work involved though

I would request LE provides the scorination and take Tae "under his wing" as it were, as he seems to have had the most to say re Tae (ie the RWC incident).

RE: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13617916&postcount=4164

Dang now i have to make a choice between two newer nations for my nominee for next WCC President.

Here is my 2 bits on the situation:

The hosts have every right to determine how teams qualify for the World Cup, and if you have a problem with that, then don't sign-up for the next one.

However, in the future, I would like to see Hosts provide specifics on how they will resolve situations like the Green Wombat/Lovisa/Scotchpineistan one of this cup.

*snippity-doo*

I personally would love to see where this argument would lead, but on account that it's just a game, I'll leave it for another time. I do appreciate your reflections (it might not seem that way...), and I'm certain that we will have other opportunities to rehash these. In which case, I would strongly suggest that you run for a WC hosting bid with these formats on mind, so we can test the fairness of running the tournament in a manner as what you have described and desired from the current hosts (all of this coming from a prospective scientist who's more interested in proof than conjecture...ironically at times...).

Nonetheless, I do hope that we can put this to rest for now.

*snippets*

Actually, I'm considering doing a BoF bid. I'm not sure if I should try it solo or with someone else though, considering that I've had prior experience with the CoH and Cafundeu's scorinator help. Nonetheless, I think that it would make for a very interesting BoF.

However, in the future, I would like to see Hosts provide specifics on how they will resolve situations like the Green Wombat/Lovisa/Scotchpineistan one of this cup.

Perhaps some sort of questionnaire or standard form to fill in (much like the RP Permissions Box) for 'how would you deal with...?' questions would be the answer.

Hmm, very interesting transliterations of "Starblaydia" and "Krytenia" there, Dae.

Why thank you!:D

"开弹压" for Krytenia I can sort of get, but I am intrigued that you used the actual word for "Star", 星, which is "xing" in pinyin instead of something like "斯达" (si da)...

Well, I'm using Hanja for these things. And honestly, many of these things that I say isn't Chinese either, since I'm using a very weird mix of Chinese and Korean to say things (essentially, the IC part of if Koreans somehow managed to beat up the Ming Dynasty after the Mongols left - there was an attempted invasion that kinda backfired, as in the invading army decided to invade home). I do realize that there are plenty of more "Chinese" ways to transliterate English words (even made-up ones...), but then again, my country isn't exactly Chinese.

Also, for what it's worth, "世界足球杯" works for "Football World Cup", using the actual word for "cup".

Erm, I didn't want to use the literal word "cup". Besides, as I've mentioned, I'm using Hanja. I also took the Spanish name of the word - "Copa" - and used the best Hanja transliteration that I could afford.

(As an aside, Liventia is 里温硖 — "li wen xia" and Ad'ihan is 阿敌汉 — "a di han"... and the direct translation of Ad'ihan [阿 has no real translation and is just a sound] — "enemy Han Chinese" — is not intended. Besides, I'm ethnically Han Chinese myself...)

Well, I probably would have come up with something similar, but now that you've given this up, I probably will use it in the near future. Thanks! (FYI, I prefer to use the native sound of the country's name in general, so giving me Han script is significantly easier for me...)

Oi vey. Liverpool England as the scorinator, i can see were you're thinking this would be a good Idea. Also I would have thought there were rules against someone "hosting" But not scorinating. But I think seeing as i have a bad reputation with scorinating, and my computer literally sucks this was the only way i could ever get a scorination gig.

Yo, I wonder if the Han like stalking Jeruselemites because Dae is following me around this cup.

Oi vey. Liverpool England as the scorinator, i can see were you're thinking this would be a good Idea. Also I would have thought there were rules against someone "hosting" But not scorinating. But I think seeing as i have a bad reputation with scorinating, and my computer literally sucks this was the only way i could ever get a scorination gig.

I will try to make time but I've got no guarantees. Of course, it would first have to be passed by the EWCC, who vote on BoF hosts.

I'd like to add a caveat, though, that if a superior bid comes up for the same tournament which you want to host, then we let them host since like I said, I cannot guarantee I'll be able to do so.

WTF MATE? Han and Jeruselem in the same Group? AND Prazkoy and Jeru FC in the CoH? After the Han played Jeru FC in the playoffs? WTF? Is there some kind of Jeruselem charm on me?

WTF MATE? Han and Jeruselem in the same Group? AND Prazkoy and Jeru FC in the CoH? After the Han played Jeru FC in the playoffs? WTF? Is there some kind of Jeruselem charm on me?

Oh Prazkoy is your puppet? You wonder about this random stuff sometimes ...

Congrats Star/Kry for the CoH

also Dae for stealing the 4000th post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13605032&postcount=4000)

%$#^ - someone's conspiring against me...

To all those that are hating on Green Wombat making the Cup, check their group out, and be glad that you aren't them.

(My guess is: 0-0-3 1 GF 17 GA -16GD.. one of, if not the worst, World Cup performances ever)

Of course by writting that, watch them win the Cup. :p

Kate: Group D for DEATH! We're playing in Krytenia, not Starblaydia.

You've just reminded me that "death" is spelt with a "d"...

bumpage.

What was up with that possibly corrupted post from Dae last night...

bumpage.

...for any particular reason?

I was bored, and it had been awile since anyone had said anything.

To all those that are hating on Green Wombat making the Cup, check their group out, and be glad that you aren't them.

(My guess is: 0-0-3 1 GF 17 GA -16GD.. one of, if not the worst, World Cup performances ever)

Of course by writting that, watch them win the Cup. :p

That happens when a really low seed makes the finals. You get a nice group!

:p

Guess us guys can't make fun of Women Drivers anymore....

Read this: http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/racing/news/story?id=3355226

Guess us guys can't make fun of Women Drivers anymore....

Read this: http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/racing/news/story?id=3355226

It's about time.

Why can't we, it only proves that it takes an inordinate amount of luck for one (and some bad math on the part of her competitors) to make good. :p

Its a historical day for women, but since it was a race that receives little attention, it's not as big of a deal as it should be. Now if it were the Indy 500 or a NASCAR race, then they wouldn't shut up about it on ESPN for like a week. Today, it couldn't bump highlights of Jazz-Rockets in the NBA Playoffs.

Jesus fucking Christ. Is someone taking the piss? First Rose leaves the Pipettes, then we have our worst ever league defeat against our local rivals, then I have my worst ever WC defeat? Same fucking weekend? This RP might be a little negative...

Well at least you haven't lost your last 7 WC matches in row dating back over the last 3 cups or gone 0-2-9 over your last 11 WC matches dating back 5 cups.

Wow I beat Az. How about that. Go Estevez!

How about that... that makes him the second Estevez to take a team that was down on its luck and turn them into winners. Unless your coach's first name is actually Emilio and your attacking formation is the Flying V.

hey i used the flying v in one of my rps, the one with the hidden ball trick. The v worked the Hball well...^^^

Group D
Valanora 1-2 Ad'ihan
Northern Bettia 5-2 Dance 2 Revolution

Pos Team P W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 Ad'ihan 2 1 1 0 6 5 1 4
2 Northern Bettia 2 1 0 1 7 5 2 3
3 Valanora 2 1 0 1 4 4 0 3
4 Dance 2 Revolution 2 0 1 1 6 9 -3 1

That's just sickening. Making me wait now?

Last call for Baptism of Fire hosting bids!

Bid submissions will close (and voting will begin) tomorrow. Yeah, I said the end of the group stage, but I'm gonna have to bring that forward a day or two so that voting will actually end before my two-week Internet exile (which begins next Friday).

Last call for Baptism of Fire hosting bids!

Bid submissions will close (and voting will begin) tomorrow. Yeah, I said the end of the group stage, but I'm gonna have to bring that forward a day or two so that voting will actually end before my two-week Internet exile (which begins next Friday).

Answered (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=555125)

To All teams in the World Cup and Cup of Harmony...

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm1/Starblayde/WC40/XLall.jpg

An Official World Cup 40 and Cup of Harmony 32 Hosting Announcement

Krytenia is away from Friday morning until Sunday Night. This means that the scheduled WC MD3 and CoH MD3 and MD4 will be delayed, with the schedule continuing as usual from Sunday Night.

To offset this little gap, there will be an official period of Double RP-Bonus, as used in the Baptism of Fire. Each RP you post in the appropriate competition after CoH MD2 until the relevant MD3 will count for double points, with the upper limit for Bonuses also being doubled.

Though the only nation to not gain any benefit from this is Vephrall (sorry, El Prezidente), who is already eliminated, each and every one of the 31 other teams in the World Cup and all twenty-four in the Cup of Harmony can use this as a great opportunity to close, or increase, the rankings gap with their RPing. Or just RP for the fun of it as per usual. Whichever you prefer.

CoH Matchday 2 will be scorinated tonight as per usual. That is all.

Each RP you post in the appropriate competition after CoH MD2 until the relevant MD3 will count for double points, with the upper limit for Bonuses also being doubled.

Curses, foiled by my prompt match reports! Oh well, I guess that means there will be more RP board spam this weekend ^_^

You have no idea what sort of can of worms (or crickets... literally :D) you just opened...

You have no idea what sort of can of worms (or crickets... literally :D) you just opened...

Oh, don't. Do you not realise how long it took us to flog off the last batch of hamsters?... though another SIC "war" with "THE HAN!!!" would be funny.

Though the only nation to not gain any benefit from this is Vephrall (sorry, El Prezidente), who is already eliminated, each and every one of the 31 other teams in the World Cup and all twenty-four in the Cup of Harmony can use this as a great opportunity to close, or increase, the rankings gap with their RPing.

Thirty teams. I can't RP if I'm not here, can I? :p

Official Presidential Announcement

We shall now begin the voting on two items.

First, we must decide who shall host the next Baptism of Fire. Two bids have been submitted (listed here in order by date of submission):

Universitus University (Jey) (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13496323&postcount=3211)
Daehanjeiguk (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=555125)

You may vote for either of the above bids, or you may vote to re-open the bidding process.

Second, we have a proposal to change a World Cup Committee rule, Proposal AS413:

"If a nation that is involved in an ongoing World Cup ceases to exist during the event, it shall remain in the competition with no penalty. If a nation signs up for an event and ceases to exist before the event begins, it may be ejected at the discretion of the host(s)."

As a reminder, the current policy on this matter is undefined, i.e. it is at the discretion of the host(s) of the tournament in question.


Voting will be open until Friday, May 2, 0300 UTC (Thursday 11pm Eastern). All votes should be sent to Vephrall.

Anyone care to explain how Daehanjeiguk - ranked 24th - is doing poorly in the World, while Prazkoy - ranked 112th - is doing so well? Methinks that the hosts accidentally sent the Han team to the Cup of Harmony and sent the Prazkoy team to the World Cup :D (fyi - not a complaint, but a personal reflection of real circumstances; I'm happy with the hosts' management of the World Cup and Cup of Harmony!)

And vote for Han! (the last time I'll say that for this voting season...)

Official Presidential Announcement

We shall now begin the voting on two items.

...

Second, we have a proposal to change a World Cup Committee rule, Proposal AS413:

"If a nation that is involved in an ongoing World Cup ceases to exist during the event, it shall remain in the competition with no penalty. If a nation signs up for an event and ceases to exist before the event begins, it may be ejected at the discretion of the host(s)."

As a reminder, the current policy on this matter is undefined, i.e. it is at the discretion of the host(s) of the tournament in question.

I don't expect to be able to vote on this matter, but I do have two rather important questions that are pertinent and may affect the way certain people vote.

(1) If this proposal is enacted, will it be in effect for the entire World Cup 41 season, or will it occur for the next season (i.e. World Cup 42)?

(2) What is the list of eligible voters for these proposals?

(1) If this proposal is enacted, will it be in effect for the entire World Cup 41 season, or will it occur for the next season (i.e. World Cup 42)?

(2) What is the list of eligible voters for these proposals?

(1) It will take effect beginning with the WC41 season (including BoF).

(2) All former World Cup hosts may vote for BoF host. All former hosts, in addition to anyone that has posted a roster in both of the last two World Cups, is eligible to vote on Proposal AS413. I'll post full lists of both of those tomorrow (time permitting).

(1) It will take effect beginning with the WC41 season (including BoF).

(2) All former World Cup hosts may vote for BoF host. All former hosts, in addition to anyone that has posted a roster in both of the last two World Cups, is eligible to vote on Proposal AS413. I'll post full lists of both of those tomorrow (time permitting).

Thanks for clearing this up.

Oooooh, so this is what wireless broadband looks like... I'd almost forgotten...

Mein Führer! I can type!

Oooooh, so this is what wireless broadband looks like... I'd almost forgotten...

Mein Führer! I can type!

Good, good my pet. Now. Walk over to the doll house and unlock the safe that will inevitably release the Seven Seals and save all of Orthodoxy from the stupidity that is the Schism!

FYI, I'd like to know what people think of football and Broadway. And you guys need to start talking here! It's so lonely.

Also, as a personal request, would the host doing the scorinating (probably Starblaydia) please please tell me if I broke the scorinator (i.e. max RP)? A TG would do fine, since I don't think that they'd like everyone else knowing what makes a max RP. And I do appreciate Krytenia taking the vacation so I can waste more time writing pointless stories.

Here's to hoping that Jeruselem follows up with another story (there should be an award for the most RPs written in a 72-hour period).

Also, as a personal request, would the host doing the scorinating (probably Starblaydia) please please tell me if I broke the scorinator (i.e. max RP)? A TG would do fine, since I don't think that they'd like everyone else knowing what makes a max RP.

By just skimming over them, I think you've probably maxed it out based roughly on the quantity and frequency of your RPs - quality I haven't checked though.

No one, absolutely no one, has maxed out the bonus in a single RP. Though I'd love to read the one that does.

Thus, the SFA will award bonuses based on the following criteria:

Entertainment, Realism, Creativity, Humour, Individuality, Variation, Story-lines, Rivalries, Inter-team participation and Use of available information.

Also, as a personal request, would the host doing the scorinating (probably Starblaydia) please please tell me if I broke the scorinator (i.e. max RP)? A TG would do fine, since I don't think that they'd like everyone else knowing what makes a max RP. And I do appreciate Krytenia taking the vacation so I can waste more time writing pointless stories.

Here's to hoping that Jeruselem follows up with another story (there should be an award for the most RPs written in a 72-hour period).

Jeruselem is the Jewish state, eye-for-an-eye type thing :p

Official Presidential Announcement

We shall now begin the voting on two items.

First, we must decide who shall host the next Baptism of Fire. Two bids have been submitted (listed here in order by date of submission):

Universitus University (Jey) (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13496323&postcount=3211)
Daehanjeiguk (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=555125)
Sel Appa officially endorses Daehanjeiguk for the Baptism of Fire.

Second, we have a proposal to change a World Cup Committee rule, Proposal AS413:

"If a nation that is involved in an ongoing World Cup ceases to exist during the event, it shall remain in the competition with no penalty. If a nation signs up for an event and ceases to exist before the event begins, it may be ejected at the discretion of the host(s)."

As a reminder, the current policy on this matter is undefined, i.e. it is at the discretion of the host(s) of the tournament in question.


Voting will be open until Friday, May 2, 0300 UTC (Thursday 11pm Eastern). All votes should be sent to Vephrall.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/juvanya/as413.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/juvanya/as413kitten2.png


Have I missed anything in the past week or so? I've had trouble viewing the forums.
(big to make sure it wasn't overlooked)

Have I missed anything in the past week or so? I've had trouble viewing the forums.
(big to make sure it wasn't overlooked)

Nope, just waiting for Krytenia to get back from whatever is going on.

Oh and you were DQ'd from the World Cup.

j/k about that last bit. :D

Sel Appa officially endorses Daehanjeiguk for the Baptism of Fire.


That's the kiss of death for poor Han, then.

Nope, just waiting for Krytenia to get back from whatever is going on.

Oh and you were DQ'd from the World Cup.

j/k about that last bit. :D

Honey, I'm home!

As promised, here is a full list of the eligible voters for this cycle:

EWCC Members - These may vote for Baptism of Fire host.

Ad’ihan
Ariddia
Az-cz
Bazalonia
Cafundéu
Capitalizt SLANI/Jasīʼyūn
Casari
Geisenfried
Krytenia
Kura-Pelland
Lethislavania
Milchama
Novapsolu
Quakmybush
Rejistania
Septentrionia (hosted as Oliverry)
Starblaydia
The Archregimancy
The Islands of Qutar
Valanora
Vephrall


World Cup Committee Members - May vote on Proposal AS413
(note: puppets are not listed)

Acapais
Ad'ihan
Ariddia (as EWCC member)
Az-cz
Bazalonia
Bettia
Blouman Empire
Bostopia
Cafundéu
Candelaria And Marquez
Capitalizt SLANI
Casari
Daehanjeiguk
Dancougar
Fujisawan Territories
Geisenfried (as EWCC member)
Green wombat
Hopeless SC
Jeruselem
Kelssek
Krytenia
Kura-Pelland
Lethislavania (as EWCC member)
Magnus Valerius
Milchama
Novapsolu (as EWCC member)
Prux
Qazox
Quakmybush
Rejistania
Sel Appa
Septentrionia (as EWCC member)
Sorthern Northland
Squornshelous
Starblaydia
Taeshan
The Archregimancy
The Islands of Qutar (as EWCC member)
The Pazhujeb Islands
Tynelia
Valanora
Vephrall
Yafor 2
Zwangzug


Again, voting ends Thursday night at 11pm Eastern (Friday 0300 UTC).

I officially vote for the proposal im just not going to write the whole thing out because im not a trained monkey

And even though i am not in the ewcc I am officially endorsing my friends in the Han.(note to readers vote does not count)

Official Presidential Announcement

All votes should be sent to Vephrall (http://www.nationstates.net/vephrall).

Just because to some people, it's not obvious (unless Vephrall accepts public votes as well).

And I do appreciate the endorsements by fellow countries, although I'm not sure what to make of the Archregimancy's statement...

Also, @ Dancougar, here's a "revised" telebroadcast of that interrogation sequence:

CI2: Beads of jade, for beauty. You must proudly show it. *hangs a necklace around the neck of the victim* Now add a cricket, just for luck...

BYEONG: Oh, hell no!

FYI, CI1 is allergic to crickets too.

BYEONG: Not talking, eh? Well, we'll change your tune soon enough.

CI1: I don't know... we've already done most everything we can do.

CI2: We even hit him in the face with that cake pan we got from Dancougar. Actually we should clean that, it's getting moldy from the last time we baked something.

CI1: *sneezes* Have we even been cleaning it between bakings?

CI2: No.

CI1: Son of a...! *vomits*

BYEONG: Hey, hey, don't you start that now, we just got the victims to stop!

CI1: *sneezes* Well, suspects.

BYEONG: Suspects!

CI2: It certainly helps to not use the prod.

BYEONG: Though it's admittedly less entertaining.

CI2: Anyway, this guy says he's a mute. *sneezes*

BYEONG: Since when did YOU start sn... wait, what?!

Otherwise, great use of creative interconnection, despite the blatant and obvious SIC tags :D

although I'm not sure what to make of the Archregimancy's statement...

Sel has consistently spoken out against any actions I've made in the World Cup ever since BoF25, which likely contributed to his official endorsement of your hosting bid. Many people have become annoyed with Sel because of his persistent antagonizing behavior towards me, because (1) the issue of BoF25 is dead and (2) it is completely unfounded. This is probably what Archregimancy's statement meant.

Also, @ Dancougar, here's a "revised" telebroadcast of that interrogation sequence:

Otherwise, great use of creative interconnection, despite the blatant and obvious SIC tags :D

My bad. Perhaps I should've added the "Any likeliness to persons real or imagined in the following post is coincidental" disclaimer?

Ah, who am I kidding :-D

0 fer 8

So can I finally claim the title of WORST WORLD CUP TEAM EVER yet?

No, you can't

Qazox and Quak fighting over who is worst World Cup qualifier ever?

:p

We aren't but for World Cup 17 to 25 we were.

No, you can't

YOU can't claim it, you made the Cup in your first attempt and have at least made it past the first round.

Only Arch, Audioslavia and The Holy Empire have a better chance at claiming it then I do.

Sel has consistently spoken out against any actions I've made in the World Cup ever since BoF25, which likely contributed to his official endorsement of your hosting bid. Many people have become annoyed with Sel because of his persistent antagonizing behavior towards me, because (1) the issue of BoF25 is dead and (2) it is completely unfounded. This is probably what Archregimancy's statement meant.

Well, I'd agree - BoF25 is over, so why on earth is something like that affecting the vote for BoF28? I certainly hope that the EWCC have more common sense to judge on the merit of the bids than on what happened several BoF seasons ago.

And I'm not as much opposed to Sel's opinions as I am to the manner in which he manifests them. There are more convincing and less provocative ways to present opinions, and I think once Sel learns this, he can progress to the next level of cooperative social interaction.


@ Qazox, Quakmybush: I'd consider Green Wombat's record more impressive - in 9 World Cup matches, 0-1-8 (the one (1) coming against me, of course). Now, if you're looking for another award - the most unlucky team in the World Cup - then you might have a better chance. Usually, I associate "worst" with match performance, not tournament performance.

And good show to Jeruselem - much luck to them as the 13th ranked team in the world in the tournament.

And good show to Jeruselem - much luck to them as the 13th ranked team in the world in the tournament.

I'd thought you'd to better than that, but that's Maggie for you. I was expecting a draw actually. I seem to have a mortgage on the number 13 rank these days :p

@ Qazox, Quakmybush: I'd consider Green Wombat's record more impressive - in 9 World Cup matches, 0-1-8 (the one (1) coming against me, of course). Now, if you're looking for another award - the most unlucky team in the World Cup - then you might have a better chance. Usually, I associate "worst" with match performance, not tournament performance.

Yeah, but they've only been in 3 Cups. I've been in 8 with an overall record of 4-4-16. Not to mention I've never advanced past the 2nd round. NO RL team (and yes i know comparing NS and RL is like comparing apples and grizzly bears) even has that bad of a record that has played at least 24 WC matches.

So there is my claim to WORST WORLD CUP TEAM EVER. At least the other 3 nations i mentioned before had advanced past the 1st round by their 8th appearance.

Yeah, but they've only been in 3 Cups. I've been in 8 with an overall record of 4-4-16. Not to mention I've never advanced past the 2nd round. NO RL team (and yes i know comparing NS and RL is like comparing apples and grizzly bears) even has that bad of a record that has played at least 24 WC matches.

So there is my claim to WORST WORLD CUP TEAM EVER. At least the other 3 nations i mentioned before had advanced past the 1st round by their 8th appearance.

I think you've got it.

From WC17-25, I did not qualify twice and make 2nd round in WC24. The records was 3-7-11 which isn't good but the 3 wins came from WC24. I'm not including WC26 to 40 as I've always qualified since WC26.

dancougar????????????????????????????????????


dan-fricking-cougar????????????????????????????


they Advance To The 2nd Round Before Me???????????????


WTF?????

Seriously, though, wtg dancougar on doing something I'VE WAITED 2 DAMN YEARS TO DO. ya bastard.

And I do appreciate the endorsements by fellow countries, although I'm not sure what to make of the Archregimancy's statement...


Sel has consistently spoken out against any actions I've made in the World Cup ever since BoF25, which likely contributed to his official endorsement of your hosting bid. Many people have become annoyed with Sel because of his persistent antagonizing behavior towards me, because (1) the issue of BoF25 is dead and (2) it is completely unfounded. This is probably what Archregimancy's statement meant.

My comment didn't refer to Sel's attitude towards Jey specifically, nor should it be construed as an anti-Han remark.

I was merely noting that Sel's penchant for what we might politely term robustly stating his case irrespective of whether anyone agrees with him or not might not lead to him being most nations' preferred endorsement.

Sel's sort of become the Jeremiah Wright of the NSWC...

dancougar????????????????????????????????????


dan-fricking-cougar????????????????????????????


they Advance To The 2nd Round Before Me???????????????


WTF?????

Seriously, though, wtg dancougar on doing something I'VE WAITED 2 DAMN YEARS TO DO. ya bastard.

I didn't expect that either, but a switch to +5 and a shitload of luck, it's all about kicking reason to the curb and aiming to pierce the heavens! Roll over and die, just who the hell do you think we are?!!! DAI GURREN BRIG... wait, that's someone else.

In other news, Dancougar's announcement that Target will be the team's new jersey sponsor has been deemed, in retrospect, ill-timed...

Roll over and die, just who the hell do you think we are?!!!

Darn it, I was hoping you might do that. :p

Darn it, I was hoping you might do that. :p

A new challenger appears!!

Oh man, do I have anything left in the tank to challenge Yafor 2? No sense backing out now, I'm in too deep! DANCOUGAR REMAINS +5!! OMGZ GUYS!!

yeah after years of falling short trying to play defensively i reluctantly switched over to the Lord of Scores and an offensive mindset and started doing much better. i think all my knockout reaching squads had the three highest positive modifiers of all my teams.

though i'll still keep trying to sneak Jariss and their permanent -5 modifier in one of these days.

Rejistania: Karelan.
World Cups won: 4 (12, 17, 18 & 23, so the NSwiki says)

Offensively-minded wins World Cups? Rubbish!

but...but... that was a long time ago in a World Cup far far away!

Rejistania: Karelan.
World Cups won: 4 (12, 17, 18 & 23, so the NSwiki says)

Offensively-minded wins World Cups? Rubbish!

But doesn't this depend on the scorinator being used?

It might be interesting to run a series of results for the same team under the currently popular NS footy sim, one set at a +0 modifier, one set at a +5 modifier, and see what happens.

You see, I'm paranoid about this. I can't help but notice that the Archregimancy's slide from grace came about just as we started sticking with NS footy sim again. The Archregimancy play +0. Now, I'm perfectly willing to concede that the monks have probably just been unlucky, but with several people now raising the hypothesis that increasing your style modifier might increase your chances of success, might it not be worth attempting to disprove this statistically once and for all?

Just a thought....

But doesn't this depend on the scorinator being used?

It might be interesting to run a series of results for the same team under the currently popular NS footy sim, one set at a +0 modifier, one set at a +5 modifier, and see what happens.

You see, I'm paranoid about this. I can't help but notice that the Archregimancy's slide from grace came about just as we started sticking with NS footy sim again. The Archregimancy play +0. Now, I'm perfectly willing to concede that the monks have probably just been unlucky, but with several people now raising the hypothesis that increasing your style modifier might increase your chances of success, might it not be worth attempting to disprove this statistically once and for all?

Just a thought....

As a man of science, I've tested your theory, and I think you will be surprised to find out what happened.

- ALL TEAMS HAVE EQUAL RANK/POINTS/WHATEVER; the only difference is playing style.
-Each team has 50 home matches and 50 away matches (100 total).

Control Experiment

Pos Team P W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 #0 100 39 31 30 124 122 2 148
2 #0 100 30 31 39 122 124 -2 121

Evenly matched teams through and through, one side gets more points, but GD is (considering the number of trails) roughly even.

0 vs 5 Experiment

Pos Team P W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 #5 100 46 21 33 200 179 21 159
2 #0 100 33 21 46 179 200 -21 120

Style 5 increases your chances of winning against an opponent marked 0.

0 vs -5 Experiment

Pos Team P W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 #-5 100 32 38 30 76 68 8 134
2 #0 100 30 38 32 68 76 -8 128

Defense helps, but over average, there is no significant advantage against a 0 ranked team.

The shocker!

5 vs -5 Experiment

Pos Team P W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 #-5 100 39 30 31 124 112 12 147
2 #5 100 31 30 39 112 124 -12 123

Style 5 is apparently too reckless, and on average loses to a more defensive -5 style team.

I didn't run an experiment on a less offensive or less defensive team, so this is an incomplete survey. Also, I didn't use ranks, because they often influence the scores in other ways, so I'd figure if there was enough interest to try this out, we'd be glad to see what happened.

EDIT - forget what I said about 5 vs -5. I ran a second run of the same experiment, and 5 beat -5. I think though more significantly, playing styles consistently do better on average than a completely neutral team (so Arch, you %$#^ed yourself when you chose 0 as a playing modifier...)

For the none of you who care, the average style modifier this tournament was about 1.74, a slight increase over last cup's 1.67.

I'm still convinced that the 3-1-0 system is a takilan conspiracy, but that's fine.

That's quite interesting, Zwang, considering I'm one of the few good teams who go with a negative bonus (a slight -1 here) and I've had more and more success as we go on. I might just be an isolated case, though.

+5 is the only way to go. /nod

EDIT - forget what I said about 5 vs -5. I ran a second run of the same experiment, and 5 beat -5. I think though more significantly, playing styles consistently do better on average than a completely neutral team (so Arch, you %$#^ed yourself when you chose 0 as a playing modifier...)

Interesting.

If this is corroborated, then we need to adjust the more popular scorinators to make sure this doesn't happen. If it is corroborated (and I stress the if), it may have potentially played a small part in the Archregimancy's recent decline, which again partially coincides with the renewed popularity of NS footy sim.

There's no point in whingeing about the past, we just need to make sure this isn't a potential problem in the future.

Yafor 2 is the only defensive team that qualified.

Most teams' evolution seems counterintuitive to me. I would think that teams might start off attacking, with nothing to lose, and switch towards a more defensive style as they progress. From my infinitesimal football knowledge, I think teams used to be attacking and then went sort of a postmodern defensive thing? Like throughout the century? But instead, the tendency seems to attack more as teams stay around longer. Beat up on the little guys? :p

Here are some tables: in all cases, groups were of 7 teams with 60, 50, 40...10, and 0 points respectively. All played a style of 0 except in the cases noted.

Pos Team P W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 60-pointers 60 41 9 10 157 51 106 132
2 50-pointers 60 41 7 12 133 62 71 130
3 40-pointers 60 33 8 19 109 77 32 107
4 30-pointers 60 33 7 20 109 75 34 106
5 20-pointers 60 15 10 35 70 123 -53 55
6 10-pointers 60 14 11 35 59 116 -57 53
7 Imdilan n00bs 60 3 8 49 38 171 -133 17
Here the 0-point team had a style modifier of -5.
Pos Team P W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 60-pointers 60 45 6 9 152 50 102 141
2 50-pointers 60 38 10 12 110 55 55 124
3 30-pointers 60 29 15 16 99 87 12 102
4 40-pointers 60 23 11 26 85 89 -4 80
5 20-pointers 60 19 12 29 64 90 -26 69
6 10-pointers 60 16 12 32 59 108 -49 60
7 Karelan n00bs 60 4 6 50 22 112 -90 18

Here it had one of +5.
Pos Team P W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 60-pointers 60 47 9 4 179 51 128 150
2 50-pointers 60 42 9 9 170 62 108 135
3 40-pointers 60 35 8 17 132 75 57 113
4 30-pointers 60 22 15 23 107 102 5 81
5 20-pointers 60 21 8 31 92 99 -7 71
6 10-pointers 60 8 15 37 56 132 -76 39
7 Takilan n00bs 60 1 4 55 47 262 -215 7

Playing all-out attack seemed to hurt the team, all-out defense didn't seem to make a difference.

What if the top seeds change their style? Here it's +5:

Pos Team P W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 Takilan 60-pointers 60 50 5 5 221 62 159 155
2 50-pointers 60 38 10 12 143 60 83 124
3 40-pointers 60 38 7 15 119 70 49 121
4 30-pointers 60 22 10 28 92 104 -12 76
5 20-pointers 60 17 13 30 74 113 -39 64
6 10-pointers 60 11 9 40 57 129 -72 42
7 0-pointers 60 4 6 50 32 200 -168 18


and here it's -5:

Pos Team P W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 50-pointers 60 42 11 7 136 45 91 137
2 Karelan 60-pointers 60 34 19 7 99 37 62 121
3 40-pointers 60 35 11 14 113 64 49 116
4 30-pointers 60 23 16 21 85 75 10 85
5 20-pointers 60 15 16 29 73 95 -22 61
6 10-pointers 60 11 9 40 49 125 -76 42
7 0-pointers 60 4 10 46 41 155 -114 22


Compared to the first simulation, the attacking top seed garnered more points. The defending top seed couldn't win its group.

Because I did the sensible thing and spent about 2 hours playing with my experiment, I have this vaunted and notable conclusion to make about playing styles.

They're worth jack squat!

I ran the experiment about 5 times playing with different numbers, and it seems that they're just as random as random can be. I tried putting percentages around it all, but I found that they didn't make much sense. In all, playing styles are but another one of those urban legends, much Margaret or rubber chickens. Playing styles just prefer a certain random outcome, but in the end, it's still a random result.

Interesting.

If this is corroborated, then we need to adjust the more popular scorinators to make sure this doesn't happen. If it is corroborated (and I stress the if), it may have potentially played a small part in the Archregimancy's recent decline, which again partially coincides with the renewed popularity of NS footy sim.

There's no point in whingeing about the past, we just need to make sure this isn't a potential problem in the future.

I recant my statements...

On another note...

Season 7 for the NFL of the Han Empire will see the introduction of 8 more teams - one among these, Sanghae Gukjei (otherwise known as Sanghae International, not Sanghae Imperial - sounds the same though).

The team is completely devoted to the principal that foreign players should have an opportunity to play in the Han Empire, and in cooperation with the Academy of Foreign Affairs (also based in Sanghae, incidentally...), the team is going to be having a field day with foreign players at the close of Season 6. In the meantime, the team is looking for a foreign corporate sponsor and a foreign kit maker. To be eligible for either, the main parent country of the company making a corporate offer must (I repeat! MUST) be a state recognized by the Academy (that is, you're on this list (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12720987&postcount=2)). If you're not on that list, and want to make an offer, you must be first recognized. The criteria for corporate sponsor are as follows:

* Your host country must be recognized by the Academy of Foreign Affairs.
* You must be posting profits for the past 5 quarters.
* You must be willing to cooperate with the Academy of Imperial Contracts.
* You must have a name that is easy-to-transliterate name or provide an acceptable alternative name for your company in Han script.
* If you wish to have your corporate logo display, it must also follow the criteria for company name.
* Unless by mutual agreement, Sanghae Gukjei will NEVER leave Sanghae for another city/country; a new stadium, after consultation with the proper authorities, is admissible.
* Unless by mutual consent, Sanghae Gukjei will NEVER change its name to anything else.


In ooc terms, this is an opportunity to own a team in the NFL. You get to choose your players, you get to draft new players from abroad, and basically anything else except move the team from the city. If you wanted to do so, you could field a team of players from your home country; I wouldn't encourage it, but it's your choice. If I see enough interest, I might have more foreign-sponsored teams in the NFL, but that's for another time. Season 8 is already proving to be a great leap forward.

I will be making a similar post in the NFL thread, so pay attention to it all!

To be eligible for either, the main parent country of the company making a corporate offer must (I repeat! MUST) be a state recognized by the Academy (that is, you're on this list (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12720987&postcount=2)).

Egads, I'm not recognised by the Han... though this could lead to an interesting opporunity.

"We're being invaded!"
"Who by?"
"No idea, I can't recognise them!"
"Aieeeeee!"

Egads, I'm not recognised by the Han... though this could lead to an interesting opporunity.

"We're being invaded!"
"Who by?"
"No idea, I can't recognise them!"
"Aieeeeee!"

Allow me to rephrase that last bit a little...

"Recognition" = the ability of my people to call your people something without having to contort their tongue into a thousand different ways just to get an idea of what to say. Otherwise, my people will just make up names for you (and you wouldn't want that, would you? Especially you, because my people will think you're the children of the cricket eaters...)

Fortunately for you, your name is easy:

報市兔亞
보시토야
Bo-Shi-To-Ya

As always, the hardest part is getting the characters, and typing.


EDIT - Also, it makes it hard for my people to make communications to your government, ironically, considering that we just came from having a bunch of communications via letter about that "incident over a football match" (as it is in official circles). But if you want a step in the right direction, we could just formalize relations.

"Recognition" = the ability of my people to call your people something without having to contort their tongue into a thousand different ways just to get an idea of what to say.

I think you managed that for Starblaydia - which has a history of being translated into other languages fairly well - but only LE noticed it. With my encoding, all I see is a few '????', 'cept on my Mac at work, which shows them in all their glory.

I think you managed that for Starblaydia - which has a history of being translated into other languages fairly well - but only LE noticed it. With my encoding, all I see is a few '????', 'cept on my Mac at work, which shows them in all their glory.

Indeed!

And LE also noted the reason why I do the recognition thingy, because there's so many ways to do it. I chose Seong-pa-ya (star stops Asia) because it's easy, but if I had to make it officially, I would have chosen something more diplomatic. Seong-bal-ya (星發夜|성발야) - which can mean "star leaving night".

It takes time to make a good name, one that sounds good and sounds right.