NationStates Jolt Archive

Let's call it a draw.

Oh, and no penalty shoot-out, either.

Of course not. You'd just end up losing anyway. :tongue:

Just curious, what's happening with the Di Bradini Cup?

I got beat up by little tykes! And it gave me an excuse to post an Invasion of the Neptune Men screencap.

Just curious, what's happening with the Di Bradini Cup?

Would you still like that friendly game against Bears Armed? I could host it right now. Or at least in the near future.

Just curious, what's happening with the Di Bradini Cup?

An army made up of ducks, swans and geese have taken over the SFA and have thrown the tournament into disarray for fear of players being pecked to death.

Just curious, what's happening with the Di Bradini Cup?

It's my magazine deadline week , which is perhaps the worst week out of every four that I have to do, and right now I have absolutely zero time free, I've even resorted to using my lunch-break today to by my card/gift/etc for Valentine's Day. I'm that busy, so bear with me.

I'm going with Sorth's IC opinion.

You all should know by now not to give me suggestions...

It's my magazine deadline week , which is perhaps the worst week out of every four that I have to do, and right now I have absolutely zero time free, I've even resorted to using my lunch-break today to by my card/gift/etc for Valentine's Day. I'm that busy, so bear with me.

ICly, I might have my players bitch about it, but I totally understand OOCly. I was a weekly newspaper editor for two and a half years. I know all about deadlines.

It's why I'd ask people not to call me on Tuesdays (that was the day the paper had to be put to bed).

Oh great, just bloody great.

After a greatly stressful and very long day at work, I come home, switch on my iMac and get:

http://1to10reviews.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/kernel_panic-1p0f.png

It's called a Kernel Panic, so I've discovered. Basically its OSX going schizophrenic over some sort of Hard Drive problem (probably).

Sometimes it gets to the Log-on screen before it freezes and the above appears, sometimes it doesn't even get that far. The Hardware test from the installation DVD takes precisely 2 seconds to find a fault with the machine, some random collection of numbers as an error message.

And, to make matters worse, trying to re-install/repair the OS installation doesn't even load itself without panicking the aforementioned Kernel and screaming for a restart before it's eve loaded. Assuming it's still within the year since I bought it, it'll be sorted by the nice Apple warranty people. If not, I'm screwed.

Oh yes, btw, I'll be losing all my data. Everything, including, no less, my Starblaydia national team database, that I've managed to keep for four years- until now. This, therefore, may be the end of Starblaydia as a footballing entity, as I'm not going to carry on without that database. It may not, of course, with some sort of flames/rising/phoenix thing going on, but I've dealt with computers enough to know that miracles don't happen. What I do from here, NS-wise? No idea, frankly. I'll keep you all updated.



How fitting that it's Friday the 13th.

Oh great, just bloody great.

After a greatly stressful and very long day at work, I come home, switch on my iMac and get:

It's called a Kernel Panic, so I've discovered. Basically its OSX going schizophrenic over some sort of Hard Drive problem (probably).

Sometimes it gets to the Log-on screen before it freezes and the above appears, sometimes it doesn't even get that far. The Hardware test from the installation DVD takes precisely 2 seconds to find a fault with the machine, some random collection of numbers as an error message.

And, to make matters worse, trying to re-install/repair the OS installation doesn't even load itself without panicking the aforementioned Kernel and screaming for a restart before it's eve loaded. Assuming it's still within the year since I bought it, it'll be sorted by the nice Apple warranty people. If not, I'm screwed.

Oh yes, btw, I'll be losing all my data. Everything, including, no less, my Starblaydia national team database, that I've managed to keep for four years- until now. This, therefore, may be the end of Starblaydia as a footballing entity, as I'm not going to carry on without that database. It may not, of course, with some sort of flames/rising/phoenix thing going on, but I've dealt with computers enough to know that miracles don't happen. What I do from here, NS-wise? No idea, frankly. I'll keep you all updated.



How fitting that it's Friday the 13th.

I was going to complain about some crappy play I went to see. But this concerns me. This concerns me much. I really hope this will turn out the right way...

Oh great, just bloody great.

How fitting that it's Friday the 13th.

I sincerely hope that you do get some of your information back. There are ways to read up data on a broken hard-drive (although I'm only aware of the Windows methods, having had my computer break three times within three months...)

And good luck to you if you can't.

...bloody hell I'm not sure what to say.

If it doesn't turn out the right way, I hope that you can create an all-new legacy with an all-new nation. Veph's done it, I suppose I've done it (hands up those who knew I was Kaze Progressa and made a WC final once with that nation), you can too (and become the first nation to complete three successful rises from zero to World Cup glory, to boot?).

I have no idea how Mac recovery happens. Can the hard drive itself have data extracted from it by taking it out of the iMac?

Holy crap.

I have my fingers crossed that this is not the end of the Men In Mauve.

Otherwise, feel free to create a new nation and kick the %$^$"% out of Logria at WC46.

(hands up those who knew I was Kaze Progressa and made a WC final once with that nation)

*raises hand*

Actually, I think I found out by snooping through NSWiki.

I still have a hard time referring to Vephrall as anything but Bedistan.

Also, here are a few links pertaining to Kernel Panics:

http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/kernelpanics.html

http://www.index-site.com/kernelpanic.html

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2546

I don't know if these are going to be helpful or not, but I hope they are and that you can recover all your data.

... (hands up those who knew I was Kaze Progressa and made a WC final once with that nation), ...

'Raises Hand' I even was in a qualifer you hosted once.

i knew because it was said many times by people since ive started

WC45 RP thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=583480)
WC45 roster thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=583479)

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled programming.

...
We now return you to your regularly-scheduled programming.

Which currently is the invasion of the Duck!

Just throwing this out there for anyone who is interesting in such things, Qazox has a 13-month calandar, for any who wish to utilize one. Please see: http://wikistates.outwardhosting.com/wiki/Qazian_Calendar for more info!

BTW RL 2009= Qazoxian Cycle E year...

I sincerely hope that you do get some of your information back. There are ways to read up data on a broken hard-drive (although I'm only aware of the Windows methods, having had my computer break three times within three months...)

And good luck to you if you can't.

...bloody hell I'm not sure what to say.

If it doesn't turn out the right way, I hope that you can create an all-new legacy with an all-new nation. Veph's done it, I suppose I've done it (hands up those who knew I was Kaze Progressa and made a WC final once with that nation), you can too (and become the first nation to complete three successful rises from zero to World Cup glory, to boot?).

I have no idea how Mac recovery happens. Can the hard drive itself have data extracted from it by taking it out of the iMac?

I'm sure it'd be possible to hook the hard drive up as a slave and extract data from it, as it might be the OS Core that's broken. If it's the HD itself, of course, then I'm screwed.

I don't particularly want a second hiatus, hehe, so I'll soldier on through this with a combination of my WC44, AOCAF25 and DBC8 rosters that are lurking in various roster threads. We shall field a team of useful players in WC45, I guarantee (we just might not know how many times they've played, or scored, or how old they actually are. Nwankwo 'I'm only thiry-four' Kanu, anyone?)

Holy crap.

I have my fingers crossed that this is not the end of the Men In Mauve.

Otherwise, feel free to create a new nation and kick the %$^$"% out of Logria at WC46.

Ditto on the finger crossing. You know whatever I do, I'm still going to be kicking your ass :p

Also, here are a few links pertaining to Kernel Panics:

http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/kernelpanics.html

http://www.index-site.com/kernelpanic.html

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2546

I don't know if these are going to be helpful or not, but I hope they are and that you can recover all your data.

Thanks dude - support.apple.com has been my friend since last night, hehe.

Just throwing this out there for anyone who is interesting in such things, Qazox has a 13-month calandar, for any who wish to utilize one. Please see: http://wikistates.outwardhosting.com/wiki/Qazian_Calendar for more info!

BTW RL 2009= Qazoxian Cycle E year...

Pfft wikistates.... NSwiki.net is the place to be!

The Kanu comment was fantastic. You could RP this as the FA sacking all of their football historians after the WC win so that 'the team doesn't dwell on the past'?

You could RP this as the FA sacking all of their football historians after the WC win so that 'the team doesn't dwell on the past'?

I've got some ideas in mind, in the hopefully inimitable Starblaydi style.

Plus it means I've got a gimmick for WC45 that isn't just 'woo! defending champs!'. Might even make a nice wiki article...

I'll still be tuning in at 2pm though!

Riddle me this:

Just exactly how do we have a WC45 RP and Roster Thread when the BoF hasn't even begun?

We shall field a team of useful players in WC45, I guarantee (we just might not know how many times they've played, or scored, or how old they actually are. Nwankwo 'I'm only thiry-four' Kanu, anyone?)

You could do what I do and promise that you'll eventually update all of these damned files and never actually do them because RL gets in the way. Of course, my junk is literally littered all over Jolt...

You could do what I do and promise that you'll eventually update all of these damned files and never actually do them because RL gets in the way. Of course, my junk is literally littered all over Jolt...

The file itself was always up to date, which is the problem. Caps and Goals that I've awarded to players have been updated on the wiki for a famous and illustrious few, but for the normal players that has completely gone as the system has crumbled around my ears. I can RP my way out of it, I imagine, but the underlying system to keep everything on track has been cast out, making everything from this point on (assuming I can't get the file back) pointless.

Just... ugh.

Riddle me this:

Just exactly how do we have a WC45 RP and Roster Thread when the BoF hasn't even begun?

Because: Huge, and I really mean huge RP bonus! xD

The file itself was always up to date, which is the problem. Caps and Goals that I've awarded to players have been updated on the wiki for a famous and illustrious few, but for the normal players that has completely gone as the system has crumbled around my ears. I can RP my way out of it, I imagine, but the underlying system to keep everything on track has been cast out, making everything from this point on (assuming I can't get the file back) pointless.

Just... ugh.

And to think that I finally organised all my players in a list of caps...

Would you still like that friendly game against Bears Armed? I could host it right now. Or at least in the near future.

Ohh, yes. Yes that'd be very good actually.

An army made up of ducks, swans and geese have taken over the SFA and have thrown the tournament into disarray for fear of players being pecked to death.

It's my magazine deadline week , which is perhaps the worst week out of every four that I have to do, and right now I have absolutely zero time free, I've even resorted to using my lunch-break today to by my card/gift/etc for Valentine's Day. I'm that busy, so bear with me.

I'm going with Sorth's IC opinion.

Ahh I see. I noticed a few pictures, but didn't have time to read through!

Sorry to hear about the computer issues Star, sucks.

The possibility of computer problems is a major reason I favour backing up all my important data on flash drives.

I keep a couple with me at all times for all the job search-related stuff I'm doing. I try to ensure that I have multiple copies so that if I lose one or it gets wiped clean, I've got another one with all the same information and I'm not fucked over like Star has been.

I thought I remembered having the same problem happen to my iBook. I think if I remember correctly, I had to hold down my start button to get the computer to boot back up. I remember being able to retain all the stuff I'd saved on it.

I had to hold down my start button to get the computer to boot back up

So you switched it off and switched it back on again?

Wow, if only I'd have thought of that in the last two days :p

Hey just wondering, when is WC45 going to get underway?

Also, Nethertopia, if you would like to host that friendly between me and Bears (I assume he is still keen) that'd be cool.

Hey just wondering, when is WC45 going to get underway?

Also, Nethertopia, if you would like to host that friendly between me and Bears (I assume he is still keen) that'd be cool.

Based on the BoF schedule, my guess would be in about two to two and a half weeks.

Also, Nethertopia, if you would like to host that friendly between me and Bears (I assume he is still keen) that'd be cool.
Yes.
Shall we create a separate thread for rosters, results & RP, or tack it on to the last World Cup thread, or just handle its details here?

So you switched it off and switched it back on again?

Wow, if only I'd have thought of that in the last two days :p

Also, I mentioned your having a kernel panic to my other dad (who happens to be very technologically adept) and he suggested rebooting with the operating system disk as a way of getting past the kernel panic.

I should have thought to ask him when you first started having this problem ... we keep telling him he should take on a tech support position after he retires from his professorial gig.

Also, I mentioned your having a kernel panic to my other dad (who happens to be very technologically adept) and he suggested rebooting with the operating system disk as a way of getting past the kernel panic.

Tried that, also. I can run the Hardware Test off the system disk (holding 'd' from the lovely mac boot tone thing), but can't boot correctly from the disk (holding 'c') as the pesky kernel panic gets in the way.

Occasionally (like every 5th time I boot it) it'll get to - shock/horror - the login screen before it panics and dies, but even then only in Safe Mode (holding 'shift' from the tone).

Some nice chap from apple support will be getting a phone call very soon, once I summon up the courage to flip the mac upside down to get my serial number.

On another note, I'm very touched by how many people have offered to help me with this little computational predicament in lots of different ways. Thanks to you all.

Okay, so I pondered not posting this, because everyone seems to have taken my statement regarding getting rid of the EWCC as a joke or, as ESF put it on #nssport "as an anarchist trying to destroy the establishment". Yeah. I wasn't kidding, and a recent discussion on the IRC channel has convinced me, somewhat, that it's best if I illustrate why I think the EWCC should be removed. Also, I may periodically relapse into debate jargon during this post itself, so, just as a warning, "plan" refers to the EWCC, "counterplan" refers to my proposal of letting the WCC vote on stuff, an "advantage" is a good thing either for the plan or the counterplan, "nonunique" means an independent advantage that applies to both the plan and the counterplan and thus cannot be claimed as an advantage by the plan, "unique" means the opposite, and I really hope I don't end up talking about topicality or something as random as that.

Anyway, why get rid of the EWCC? The way that I perceive, the EWCC is utterly pointless and, moreover, elitist. Yeah. Anyway, to prove the former (and, along the way, prove the latter), I will take the arguments for the EWCC (namely, the four major arguments in favor of it that I have been able to find), and attempt to prove them untrue.

Argument 1 - people who know from experience what hosting a WC is vs people who may or may not know what it takes (the blind-leading-the-blind)

This is clearly the most logical argument in favor of the EWCC. The blind-leading argument functions to prove not only the advantage of the EWCC (namely that those who know how to host are voting for it), but also functions to remove the "elitist" tag from the EWCC (i.e., you're here if you deserve it). It's also the closest thing to a true reason in favor of the EWCC.

My first argument in response to this is that, well, it *would* be true, if it wasn't for the fact that it's the WCC that votes for WC hosts, not the EWCC. The EWCC instead votes for the hosts of the Baptism of Fire and Cup of Harmony contests. The implication ("impact") of this argument in terms of this as a whole is the fact that the blind ARE in fact leading the blind, it just happens not regarding the BoF and CoH. So there is precedent for the blind to lead the blind, at least in terms of the WC.

Secondly, it's profoundly untrue to imagine that if the WCC voted on BoF and CoH hosts, that the same people who wield influence now wouldn't do so then. If you look at the WCDT, the most active members, as well as those who traditionally bring up concerns regarding hosts are in fact those who are a part of the EWCC anyway. The impact of this argument is the fact that now the advantage of the EWCC (the blind are not leading the blind) becomes nonunique, because those who can see now have influence regarding the process (and, to further the metaphor, the blind are more inclined to trust those who can see. I know I am). Besides, those who can see are still going to vote if the WCC does, so that makes the advantage nonunique on a second level.

Moreover, thirdly, having the WCC vote on BoF and CoH hosts provides an independent advantage on top of this. You look at the recent BoF election and you can see the WCC member who was asking the majority of questions to each candidate was Bears Armed, who is not a member of the EWCC. It is not unreasonable to imagine that, if the WCC were to vote on BoF and CoH entries, this would occur more often. This is likely because firstly, now they would have the right to vote, and people like to vote, and secondly, especially regarding the BoF, they would be likely to care for the next generation. The impact of this is that, especially with the BoF, we have the opinion of those closer to the action, and thus closer to the ground.

Fourthly, it is a clear fallacy to argue that those who have not hosted a WC don't know how difficult it is (at least in terms of abstract terms). Greal's recent post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14440317#post14440317) provides one more example of this, and anecdotal evidence from others who have never hosted a WC provides more. Thus, it is entirely likely that even if the WCC voted on the BoF or CoH, they would still select the most responsible person/people to become hosts, because they also have an idea of how difficult it in fact is (or, at least, that is very difficult, and thus would want to select those who would do the best job).

Fifthly, the fact that many hosts repeat-host eliminates the need to worry about this. In fact, repeat hosting (and unopposed bids) are pretty much the name of the game in this town. As such, it doesn't really matter if the EWCC or the WCC vote on this, because we'd get good hosts (or the same host) either way.

Sixthly, this argument is inherently an elitist argument, as you are clearly valuing those who can see above those who are blind (or, at least, their abilities of judgment). It's a good thing that those who are "blind" trust you, or else there would have been an outcry against the EWCC long ago. I would urge the members in favor of the EWCC to value the reasoning skills of those in the WCC - their selections regarding hosts of things in the past has been quite good, after all.

Seventhly, the people who traditionally apply to host are a. those who have an interest in the community, b. those who want to contribute, and c. those who are willing to work hard. New hosts usually take co-hosts with them, co-hosts who have voted before. Purely in terms of probability, even if you don't accept any of the previous arguments as true, what we lose by letting the WCC vote on BoF and CoH is almost nothing compared to what we have anyway, so a standard risk analysis system or cost-benefit analysis would encourage this as the way to go.

Argument 2 - the EWCC is more active, it's better to vote for them, a larger percentage votes, statistically.

This is a sort of random argument that came up, namely that since the EWCC is really active and really involved, a larger percentage votes, and this has several good things coming off of it. I'm going to spend less time working on this than I did on argument one, mostly because many of those arguments also answer here, but there a few responses here.

Firstly, this argument fails to account for the fact that almost every EWCC member is a WCC member. So, they will still vote - the advantage stemming from the counterplan here is that that turnout may in fact be increased by letting others in. So, more people involved in the process, which gains access to all the advantages of the arguments above.

Secondly, there's evidence that a higher percentage of people in face vote. Zwang's collected this:

WC Bids Votes Eligible Turnout
45 1 13 40 33%
44 2 21 34 62%
43 1 8
42 2 18
41 2 19
40 1 16
39 1 18
38 2 14

While the eligible numbers are not always available, it's not unreasonable to believe that the numbers in the WCC were between 35-40, and thus the turnout wavered between 35% and 54%. For BoFs and CoHs:

Tourney Bids Votes Eligible Turnout
Bof(45) 1.5 8
CoH(44) 2 8
BoF(44) 1 3
BoF(43) 1 1
CoH(43) 1 4
CoH(42) 2 7
BoF(42) 4 7
CoH(41) 1 2
CoH(40) 4 5 17 29%
BoF(40) 1 6 24 25%
CoH(39) 2 5

It's unlikely that membership went between 15 and 25, so the percentages then become between 4% and 53%. Clearly something needs to be done.

Argument 3 - we need to reward hosts!

Give them plaques, or something. They're on wiki, after all. There's no reason as to them controlling the process.

Argument 4 - all alternatives are inefficient

Firstly, this assumes that the current system is efficient. I would contend that it isn't - first of all, we have two different councils, and we need to coordinate between them. Secondly, we often have multiple votes going on at the same time, requiring collection of more than one. Thirdly, often the WC president or someone else important is bidding, thus throwing a wrench in the process anyway. As a result (mostly due to the first reason), our own current system isn't exactly super-efficient either.

Secondly, I would contend that one single body would remove much more of the paperwork. If everyone votes on everything, issues of eligibility and bureaucracy would vanish, or become far less. Moreover, the WC president would a. simply just count every vote and b. not have to alert a certain segment of the population, thereby removing a lot of unnecessary red tape.

Thirdly, one argument that has been made is that the increased number of voters leads to more hassle. So put a limit on the length of time for BoF and CoH votes! That way, those who are involved in the community will vote (and often those are the ones we want voting anyway), while it removes the problems, by having a deadline. Any more problems with simply one council you want to put forward?

As such, the counterplan also works. :)

(NOTE: I don't want this to piss off anyone too much. I've already come close to damaging my relationship with ESF and I don't want that. Please take nothing personally)

Yaf you debate/debated?

When and for which school? We might actually have met each other at some point then.

Also and more importantly if we get rid of the EWCC can you become a permanent member of the WCC by hosting a World Cup? (I believe this is the current system but don't remember)

Because that should be a benefit of hosting is it proves you are committed enough to the WC to be a permanent voting member.

Sweet! I do LD, in case you care :P . Now get over to IRC - I feel much more comfortable talking about my RL life where stalkers like, erm, C&M and Dancougar can't read it.

[I knew there was something about those robots...<.<]

Also, Nethertopia, if you would like to host that friendly between me and Bears (I assume he is still keen) that'd be cool.

Yes.
Shall we create a separate thread for rosters, results & RP, or tack it on to the last World Cup thread, or just handle its details here?

Best to handle it here. Best to do it right now, to be honest!

Friendly Match, Bears Armed vs Peisandros

Final result*:
Bears Armed 0 - 2 Peisandros



*= Match hosted in Tenderville Nethertopia. WC44 rosters and style modifiers used, post WC44 ranks used.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14519160&postcount=12

In the words of ESF, I'm an idiot.

Right, barring my dislike of the 'blind leading the blind' terminology as, at best, patronising, the simple answer to all your hard work is this:

Have you got a notably better system in mind than the current WCC/EWCC arrangement with associated voting systems. Not your 'WCC = less efficient therefore we must mean that the EWCC is efficient' extrapolation - again a tenuous one, but an actually better system that will substantially affect the way we do things for the better.

From what I can gather from your arguments, there's a undercurrent of "well, it can't be any worse if the WCC vote on everything, right?" running through it from front to back. The EWCC is elitist in the same way that a Parliament is elitist. You win the vote in the first place, therefore you get to a voice in other important decisions.

I don't see the need to change it, really. Back when the WC was in it's teens we were in trouble and needed to change things up to move along. Do we need to change things again because the trigger was a couple of people not being happy at Qazox not-winning an uncontested vote?

I think not.


Oh, and Kry, you are an idiot :p

*snip*

The EWCC is elitist in the same way that a Parliament is elitist.

*snip*

Oh, and Kry, you are an idiot :p

Will the Honourable Member for Lichfield please be quiet?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14519160&postcount=12

In the words of ESF, I'm an idiot.

We all make mistakes, Kry. Yet the most idiotic make them first.

Right, barring my dislike of the 'blind leading the blind' terminology as, at best, patronising,

ESF's terminology, not mine. Apologies for using it, though.

Have you got a notably better system in mind than the current WCC/EWCC arrangement with associated voting systems. Not your 'WCC = less inefficient therefore we must mean that the EWCC is efficient' extrapolation - again a tenuous one, but an actually better system that will substantially affect the way we do things for the better.

There are two major responses to this. Firstly, there's the obvious one, namely that the EWCC is pointless anyway, so we might as well get rid of it. Secondly, there's that whole bit about the WCC being far more efficient.

But the point is that the EWCC is pointless - I'm taking the position that we ought to get rid of it purely along those grounds, while the alternative may be better (getting more people involved in the process, etc.), without losing an advantage of the EWCC. So, by your logic, we might as well follow the counterplan, since there's no reason to reject it, either.

From what I can gather from your arguments, there's a undercurrent of "well, it can't be any worse if the WCC vote on everything, right?" running through it from front to back.

That's the fallback thing - the nonuniqueness argument. If you read most of what I say, the WCC is probably best, but at worst is no worse. That's especially apparent in my argument centered around my alternative getting more people involved and getting us "closer to the ground".

The EWCC is elitist in the same way that a Parliament is elitist. You win the vote in the first place, therefore you get to a voice in other important decisions.

I don't buy that argument, though, because a) some people don't have the time to give to hosting, but still give their all to the community and b) there's no specific warrant as to hosting letting have a say above everyone else. That's the Argument 3.

I don't see the need to change it, really.

The point is that there appears to be no good reason to keep it. If that's the case, and I'm offering an alternative that at best for me has some advantages and, at worst, is totally equal, why not take the alternative? Following your logic, there's no reason to disagree with the counterplan, either. At least you'll get me to shut up, which is a plus.

Back when the WC was in it's teens we were in trouble and needed to change things up to move along. Do we need to change things again because the trigger was a couple of people not being happy at Qazox not-winning an uncontested vote?

Two responses - first, I was against Qaz's hosting bid, so I'm not sure what that means, and second, I've been arguing this for some time, so it's not like Qaz is some kind of catalyst.

We all make mistakes, Kry. Yet the most idiotic make them first.
I'm nothing if not a pioneer.

Hopefully, you don't mind me making replies to your arguments...

Argument 1 - people who know from experience what hosting a WC is vs people who may or may not know what it takes (the blind-leading-the-blind)

In one perspective, I agree, but not in the way that you were arguing.

Many people wanting to host the World Cup honestly don't have any clue how to host it, and some others are aware how to host but are yet unaware of the its great difficulties. Unfortunately, I don't agree that the EWCC (or even the WCC) are the best bodies to determine who is capable of hosting or not, because I believe the most important factor is maturity. I've been reading back to the way that I co-hosted WC41 and the BoF28, and I particularly do not like how I hosted it. Everything was at a whim, and though some aspects of the hosting were enlighteningly interactive, a small number of incidents were just plain immature. If you want to know how not to host a tournament, look at WC41.

And yet, as a member of the EWCC, I can help decide who is and who is not capable of hosting. How ironic is that? And I can guarantee that I'm not the only person who is/was/willbe/maybe immature. In fact, I can presume that the great majority of the people here are hardly beyond college, and a large number still in secondary schools. We'd like to imagine that such budding adolescents are capable of being like adults, but as the old people say, "With age comes experience; with experience comes wisdom". And the experience of which I speak does not concern the hosting of tournaments or the organization of anything related thus, but the government of self.

Argument 2 - the EWCC is more active, it's better to vote for them, a larger percentage votes, statistically.

Actually, I think this is more a problem with voter apathy. People aren't voting when they can, just because they don't want to vote for something. Granted, there are random episodes where a large swath of people vote on certain proposals, but these are largely restricted to the very important proposals, as hosting and WCC Presidential elections. There are a number of people who consistently vote for every topic, but there are many more who consistently ignore the voting. I'm a skeptic of democracy, but whenever in place, I believe that if people have the opportunity to make a change, the only reason why they don't succeed is because they're too lazy to care about it. In modern society, apathy is the greatest sin; and no different is it for a game. I'm not saying that you should irate about losing a match, losing an election, or losing whatever; but if you don't participate, you don't belong.

Of course, I'd be a horrible hypocrite if I blamed everything on the voters, because there are sometimes genuine excuses for not participating (i.e. didn't know; voting period too short; not too knowledgeable about the topic at hand; etc...). I think whatever we consider for reform, we ought to consider making the process more open to people voting (whether or not the EWCC remains), because the more people who know about it, the more likely you're going to get a better turn-out.

Oh, and about the EWCC being more active? I think your statistics speak for themselves.

Argument 3 - we need to reward hosts!

Bah! You're being too nice! This is a game! The reward should be the privilege of hosting. It's like giving the million-dollar lottery winner a complementary trip around the world!

Argument 4 - all alternatives are inefficient

*Only the Sith deal in absolutes*



I honestly do favor the establishment of an EWCC as a safe-guard against extreneous circumstances. Unfortunately, I don't quite agree with the "you must have hosted a WC (or anything) to be a part of this" qualification; I'd prefer something more democratic (again... not because I particularly like democracy). And that's me being optimistic, because I'm willing to think that electing a select few to vote on special proposals/etc will garner enough interest in the general body to be anything meaningful. My cynical self says that it's like throwing a rock in a pond: the ripples are pretty, but that's just about it (unless if the rock suddenly and inexplicably comes back for round 2).

For the moment, we have something that works. Hopefully, it will continue to work until we have il Presidente return to give us a tally of options up for voting (if any). Because, in the long run, what works is all that really matters. Unfortunately, it was that same mentality that led to the Chinese defeat during the Opium Wars...

I'm nothing if not a pioneer.

Good for you. Pioneers discover new worlds for the regulars.

Han, I don't follow. I'm against the EWCC... I was responding to common arguments in favor of it...

Good for you. Pioneers discover new worlds for the regulars.

Go to 2:08 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgL-AT2OAhw)

I claim this land...for Spain!

Han, I don't follow. I'm against the EWCC... I was responding to common arguments in favor of it...

...

I largely agree with you that the arguments are not legitimate for the defense of the existence of an EWCC.

(1) The EWCC is not an organization that should dictate who is and/or who is not capable of hosting a tournament;
(2) The EWCC is not as active as it should be in the management of its responsibilities;
(3) We really don't need to reward hosts any more than we should;
(4) I don't think we should exclude alternatives just because what works is working right now.


I don't agree that we should demolish the EWCC, because as the title states, the Emergency World Cup Committee should be available for people to make decisions quickly. I don't agree that the qualifier "WC hosting nations" is an adequate qualifier.

Unfortunately, my alternative is to democratize the EWCC more thoroughly than what it is presently. I sincerely believe that there are those within the WCC but not the EWCC who could fulfill the requirements of the job just as efficiently (or better) as those who the seats of the EWCC. My problem is that (2) people are not as active as they should be (and in some circumstances, why should they?). I don't think it would work out as I imagine it to work, because people have lives, and some people don't value participating in the WCC/EWCC as others do.

And to address Starblaydia's proviso - I don't have as good an alternative as I'd like to admit. I do believe that the traditional requirement of a back-up group of people is necessary to ensure long-term survival of the WCC, and that though nothing in the short-term necessitates a change, we shouldn't necessarily disregard proposals for reform. Furthermore, the excuses we make for the maintenance of the status-quo should be constantly reviewed to make sure that we're not making anything obsolete.

I hope this clarifies my position.

EDIT - And yes, this is Han.

Okay, now I follow, and I can accept your alternative, actually, so no problem here. Thanks for the clarification!

How many people use the ns sport thing out of the people who use the Discussion thread?

.... Do we need to change things again because the trigger was a couple of people not being happy at Qazox not-winning an uncontested vote?
...

Just for the record, again, I had/have no problem with the re-opening of the vote.

As for the EWCC and the WCC:

Since the EWCC is basically an elected position... (you have to win a WC hosting bid) we're just basically just allowing a smaller % of WCC voters vote on 2 of the most important tourneys in the NSWC cycle.

My compromise: Allow the members of the EWCC to have their vote count as DOUBLE just for the BoF and CoH, while the WCC members will become eligible to vote on the CoH and BoF hosts. This way almost everyone gets what they want. The WCC votes on everything and the EWCC still has a measure of control over the BoF and CoH vote.

Just for the record, again, I had/have no problem with the re-opening of the vote.

As for the EWCC and the WCC:

Since the EWCC is basically an elected position... (you have to win a WC hosting bid) we're just basically just allowing a smaller % of WCC voters vote on 2 of the most important tourneys in the NSWC cycle.

My compromise: Allow the members of the EWCC to have their vote count as DOUBLE just for the BoF and CoH, while the WCC members will become eligible to vote on the CoH and BoF hosts. This way almost everyone gets what they want. The WCC votes on everything and the EWCC still has a measure of control over the BoF and CoH vote.

This is sort of what I was going to suggest if this ever did come to a vote, but I would expand on it to allow those that have hosted any of the three tournaments before to have their votes count double for all host voting. I know that it might entail some good record keeping, but I'd volunteer to keep track of the records if need be.

As to Allemenschen's/Han's idea of:

I sincerely believe that there are those within the WCC but not the EWCC who could fulfill the requirements of the job just as efficiently (or better) as those who the seats of the EWCC.

I couldn't agree more.

As one of those people, as I belive that I am, I've voted for every World cup host since WC28, sometimes the one whom I voted for won, sometimes they lost, but I have participated in just about every vote involving the WC since I joined, a little over 3 years ago.

Over that period of time, I've seen many nations come and go and come back again, many nations come and many nations just go. Hell I've just about played every nation that has participated in at least 2 WC's since WC 27.

There've been some nations, who in similar circumstances as myself, just up and quit because of all the BS that goes on with hosting and how it is determined; and I've seen newcomers, like Daehan come in, and become a voice of reason, (though some may think differently).

Overall in the 3+ years and the 18 Cups I've been in, I've seen a lot, I know pretty much who will respond to certain topics and how they'll respond to those topics. If there is a person who hasn't hosted a World Cup that belongs on the EWCC, if we do so allow such a thing, I would be one of, if not the most likely, canidate to serve.

Speaking along those lines... see my next posting.

Just for the record, again, I had/have no problem with the re-opening of the vote.

I think the couple of people are others, who took umbrage on your behalf (even though you had no problem, of course).

My compromise: Allow the members of the EWCC to have their vote count as DOUBLE just for the BoF and CoH, while the WCC members will become eligible to vote on the CoH and BoF hosts. This way almost everyone gets what they want. The WCC votes on everything and the EWCC still has a measure of control over the BoF and CoH vote.

That’s why I propose the following:

The EWCC becomes a part of the WCC. By this I mean that the EWCC members will get the status of member Extraordinaire in the WCC and that the first formally will exist, but in practise won’t except for the special occasions. The WCC will votes on all bids, but in case of the small tournaments (the BoF and CoH), the members’ Extraordinaire votes will be counted double. This way they’ll have bigger influence, while the other countries still have a voice. In case of special occasions (tragedies ect.) the EWCC will be the ones to take decisions.

*cough*

*cough*
http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/unbranded/b/unbranded-benylin-chesty-cough-sachets-non-drowsy-size-5ml-x-10.jpg

http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/unbranded/b/unbranded-benylin-chesty-cough-sachets-non-drowsy-size-5ml-x-10.jpg

*cough*

*takes benylin*

Thanks. Much better.

QAZOX' WCC/EWCC Proposals:

Proposal #1
Considering that the Emergency World Cup Council is basically World Cup Council members who have been voted to host a World Cup, the EWCC should only be voting in cases of emergency ONLY. For intents and purposes an Emergency shall be considered any of the following:

A tie in the vote for WCC President.
A tie in the vote for World Cup/ Baptism of Fire or Cup of Harmony Host.
A tie in the vote to re-open Host bids for the aforementioned tourneys.
To vote for a new President, if current active President either is uncapable of countinuing thier Duty, or if the active President resigns or is made inactive.
Any other use that the WCC approves that the EWCC shall vote upon.


Proposal #2
Proposal #2 would be to elect a mininum of 2 and a maximum of 5 WCC members to the EWCC. The criteria to be used in determining those eligible WCC members than can be nominated shall be the following:

The Nation shall have competed in NO LESS than in THREE World Cup qualifying attempts of the last FOUR World Cup qualifying attempts.
The Nation shall have competed in, at a mininum, the previous TWO World Cup qualifying attempts consecutively, and have been an active participant, (ie: Posted roster and RP'ed in at least 1/2 of the qualifiers), in said World Cups.

The members shall be nominated by the WCC, approved by the incumbent WCC President and Nations CANNOT Nominate themselves for the voting list.

The vote for the nominees shall take place at the same time as the vote for WCC President. If there are less than 2 eligible nations, (ie: 1 Nation eligible) then no vote shall be taken, until there are at least 3 nations are eligible. If there are 6 or more nations eligible to be nominated, a vote by the WCC will determine the nations elected to the EWCC, with nominated nations ineligible to vote for themselves; with teams receving at least 50% of the vote being elected to the EWCC. Nations voting in EWCC election MUST vote for at least 1 nation.

The Duration of the elected EWCC members shall be the same as the WCC President, Three World Cups. If a nation elected to the EWCC becomes ineligible due to failure to maintain the criteria needed for nomination during a World Cup, said nation shall be dropped BEFORE the beginning of the next BoF host vote takes place.

Proposal #3
ALL members of the WCC are eligible to vote for the World Cup, Baptism of Fire and Cup of Harmony Hosts. The members of the EWCC shall have their vote count double.

As one of those people, as I belive that I am, I've voted for every World cup host since WC28, sometimes the one whom I voted for won, sometimes they lost, but I have participated in just about every vote involving the WC since I joined, a little over 3 years ago.

Are you trying to run for public office or something? I mean, it's a bit random for everyone to hear your voting record in public all of a sudden.

Overall in the 3+ years and the 18 Cups I've been in, I've seen a lot, I know pretty much who will respond to certain topics and how they'll respond to those topics.

Predict me, then.

If there is a person who hasn't hosted a World Cup that belongs on the EWCC, if we do so allow such a thing, I would be one of, if not the most likely, canidate to serve.

Really?


The Nation shall have competed in NO LESS than in THREE World Cup qualifications of the last FOUR World Cup qualifiecations.
The Nation shall have competed in, at a mininum, the previous TWO World Cup qualifications consecutively, and have been an active participant (ie: Posted roster and RP'ed in at least 1/2 of the tourney) in said World Cups.


No. This excludes newer nations or nations who have been unlucky - like Bears Armed or Newmanistan, who, while I may disagree with them (in Newmanistan's case, about nearly everything), I know that I would accept being in a ruling body. These qualifications are fabricated out of thin air - I'd like to see the thought process that came up with these, please.

Proposal #1
Considering that the Emergency World Cup Council is basically World Cup Council members who have been voted to host a World Cup, the EWCC should only be voting in cases of emergency ONLY. For intents and purposes an Emergency shall be considered any of the following:

A tie in the vote for WCC President.
A tie in the vote for World Cup/ Baptism of Fire or Cup of Harmony Host.
A tie in the vote to re-open Host bids for the aforementioned tourneys.
To vote for a new President, if current active President either is uncapable of countinuing thier Duty, or if the active President resigns or is made inactive.
Any other use that the WCC approves that the EWCC shall vote upon.

We already have the WCC Prez and Veep for this.

Proposal #2
Proposal #2 would be to elect a mininum of 2 and a maximum of 5 WCC members to the EWCC. The criteria to be used in determining those eligible WCC members than can be nominated shall be the following:

The Nation shall have competed in NO LESS than in THREE World Cup qualifications of the last FOUR World Cup qualifiecations.
The Nation shall have competed in, at a mininum, the previous TWO World Cup qualifications consecutively, and have been an active participant (ie: Posted roster and RP'ed in at least 1/2 of the tourney) in said World Cups.

The members shall be nominated by the WCC, approved by the incumbent WCC President and Nations CANNOT Nominate themselves for the voting list.

The vote for the nominees shall take place at the same time as the vote for WCC President. If there are less than 2 eligible nations, (ie: 1 Nation eligible) then no vote shall be taken, until there are at least 3 nations are eligible. If there are 6 or more nations eligible to be nominated, a vote by the WCC will determine the nations elected to the EWCC, with nominated nations ineligible to vote for themselves; with teams receving at least 50% of the vote being elected to the EWCC. Nations voting in EWCC election MUST vote for at least 1 nation.

The Duration of the elected EWCC members shall be the same as the WCC President, Three World Cups. If a nation elected to the EWCC becomes ineligible due to failure to maintain the criteria needed for nomination during a World Cup, said nation shall be dropped BEFORE the beginning of the next BoF host vote takes place.
Congratulations. You've turned the EWCC into a monstrous carbunkle.

Proposal #3
ALL members of the WCC are eligible to vote for the World Cup, Baptism of Fire and Cup of Harmony Hosts. The members of the EWCC shall have their vote count double.
I will never support a proposal that allows unequal voting.

I have a better idea.

Proposal E1

The EWCC shall be made up of those nations that fulfil all of the following criteria:

Must have participated in the last three World Cup tournaments, and have at least posted a roster for each.
Must have hosted or co-hosted a WCC-sanctioned tournament.
If an existing member, must have voted in at least one of the previous three EWCC votes.

Should any of these criteria no longer be met, the EWCC member will be suspended until they re-fulfil criteria 1 and 2. (That will entail hosting another tournament.)

Former WCC Presidents, the current WCC President and VP, and World Cup Founder Ariddia, will be exempt from suspension as a mark of gratitude for their service.

This should "trim the fat" of the EWCC, and make it more open.

QAZOX' WCC/EWCC Proposals:
Proposal #2


While in no means taking sides, I've temporarily brought my head out of the sand to point out Qazox's #2 proposal is much like my own proposal of a good number of posts back.

Though hopefully not the same monstrous carbunkle format. (Kry - 2DTV Prince Charles in a Godzilla robot thing reference?)

This post serves little purpose but to point that out, so I shall humour you by reminding you of the time the Emperor moo'ed on a news broadcast before a WC Review thingy.

As Star told me, "You're insane".

While in no means taking sides, I've temporarily brought my head out of the sand to point out Qazox's #2 proposal is much like my own proposal of a good number of posts back. This post serves little purpose but to point that out, so I shall humour you by reminding you of the time the Emperor moo'ed on a news broadcast before a WC Review thingy.

As Star told me, "You're insane".
There's a fine line between genius and insanity.

You're a long way from that line. And not on the genius side, either. :D

This should "trim the fat" of the EWCC, and make it more open.

The best way to "trim the fat" of the EWCC is to rid ourselves of its existence entirely for I can see no logical reason for its existence.

If there must be a EWCC other than the Executive Cabinet (President and Vice President), I'd support a system whereby members of the WCC vote from within their own ranks for EWCC members. Rather than simply allow any wanker to be part of a new EWCC, you can set it up so that four slots are reserved for former World Cup hosts and four are elected by the WCC at large. Or if there must be an odd number of voters, four former hosts and five elected members.

The best way to "trim the fat" of the EWCC is to rid ourselves of its existence entirely for I can see no logical reason for its existence.

If there must be a EWCC other than the Executive Cabinet (President and Vice President), I'd support a system whereby members of the WCC vote from within their own ranks for EWCC members. Rather than simply allow any wanker to be part of a new EWCC, you can set it up so that four slots are reserved for former World Cup hosts and four are elected by the WCC at large. Or if there must be an odd number of voters, four former hosts and five elected members.
I ask this question, not only of you, but of those anti-EWCCers:

What would be significantly improved by removing the EWCC?

The answer, I'll wager, is "not that much". The only thing wrong with the EWCC, from my viewpoint is voter apathy. Which is why I've submitted a proposal for rejuvenating the EWCC.

With the proposals coming in thick and fast, I advise the VP start collating things in preperation for Arch's return. We need a vote on this, and fast.

Guys...I just want to poorly RP coming in 4th place in a 8 team group in a soccer tournament. Is that too much to ask? :)

I ask this question, not only of you, but of those anti-EWCCers:

What would be significantly improved by removing the EWCC?

The flip side of that question is the centerpiece of my own argument; namely, "what does having the EWCC exist do that is not accomplished by it not existing?". Another way of saying that is "What is significantly improved by the presence of the EWCC?". I think that I've extensively argued (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14518716&postcount=8035) that there is a) no/negative benefit derived from the EWCC especially and b) that not having the EWCC is actually beneficial in comparison to the EWCC.

I personally think that I should get a restraining order against Valanora...

And while I'm inclined to try to muck my way through this mass of ideas (and not to discourage other people from being engaged), I'll say my final word on this matter:

It seems certain that we're going to have to argue a number of things through in proposals, but it might make things a lot easier if we can figure out with what we agree and with what we disagree. The biggest sticking point I can see is the EWCC itself.

Simply put: (1) Do we have an EWCC? (2) Do we not have an EWCC?

I think once we've answered that question, we can decide how it manages things, because there's point to arguing much else anything if we can't agree whether it should exist or not. And mind you, il Presidente is probably reading up that draft WCC Charter that I sent him over this past weekend (I'm still waiting for critique before we present it for the general public viewing...); if we can get some stuff knotted out before the Charter gets put to a vote, we can perhaps add/eliminate certain sections as needed to address everything in one swift blow.

So back to my original intention:

First: Do we or don't we have an EWCC?

Second: Who makes it? (membership)

Third: What does it do?

If we can cohesively answer these answers (and potentially others), that may make this a lot simpler other than arguing "if this, then that" and such (of which, I'm probably to blame a bit for making that awfully ambiguous statement back some time ago...)

Guys...I just want to poorly RP coming in 4th place in a 8 team group in a soccer tournament. Is that too much to ask? :)

Been there, done that.

I'm afraid you're going to have to ask ESF/SLANI for details on that though.

Those who're arguing in favour of scrapping the EWCC are only using the "elitist" argument though. All I can see if Yaf trying to bat away the arguments of those against scrapping the EWCC. But neither Yaf nor Sarz has come up with any argument better than "it doesn't need to exist".

What ain't broke don't need fixing.

What ain't broke don't need fixing.

Bullshit.

The way the system is set up now runs too much of a risk of disenfranchising people who actually give more of a fuck about this game-within-a-game than they should.

There's too much of a burden of proof on me and Yafor II to prove why the EWCC *shouldn't* exist. I haven't seen any valid arguments from the pro-EWCC side arguing why it *should* exist, and why people who have a stake in ensuring this game-within-a-game is successful shouldn't be allowed to have input.

The ball's in *your* court, LE. Either play ball or go home.

Well no one said it wasnt broke. It's just a stupid system where 10 people vote on the future of 28 countries none of which will probally be one of those countries. And you could go as far to say it is broken because really the point of witch it was originally brought forth to do has thus changed and now it is needless and broken in the way thatits not not broken

Ooo Sarzs Mad

The problem is the EWCC is full of inactive nations and not all of them play the NSWC anymore either. I think we need one but with a system which puts more active nations.

Bullshit.

The way the system is set up now runs too much of a risk of disenfranchising people who actually give more of a fuck about this game-within-a-game than they should.

Far as I can see, this is pretty much the first time this discussion has occurred at this level, and the only people who aren't happy with it so far are you, Taeshan and Yafor II.

There's too much of a burden of proof on me and Yafor II to prove why the EWCC *shouldn't* exist. I haven't seen any valid arguments from the pro-EWCC side arguing why it *should* exist, and why people who have a stake in ensuring this game-within-a-game is successful shouldn't be allowed to have input.

If you want it gone, prove it should be gone. Why should the burden be on us?

The ball's in *your* court, LE. Either play ball or go home.

Could say the same to you. You've been back one cup and are now coming up with how much you care about the game? If you cared, you'd either have been back earlier and challenged it by now, or not left at all. Fine, we all need breaks, I'll grant you that, but you can't possibly take a long one, then come back and immediately say you give a shit about everything.

Oh will you lot quit whining like a bunch of spoiled rotten kids who have not gotten your way. All of you, pro-EWCC and against, enough is enough people. All you are doing is creating a chasm inside the community that is going to force a split that will result in the collapse of the World Cup as we know it. Calmer heads must prevail here, and all this bickering and throwing jabs is going to solve nothing. Already we have over a dozen proposals that if passed, will just nullify the other. It's simply ridiculous that there is no way we can not find some middle ground, but as that is the case.

I suggest that Starblaydia and The Archregimancy decide among themselves what the future of the WCC/EWCC shall be. It is the only valid solution to our current crisis as the mass has gone proposal happy to the point where we would be bogged down for weeks trying to sort through the mess and vote on them. What makes these two nations different? For one, they are not trying to disprove everyone who has an opposing opinion without a solid arguement. Secondly, both of these nations have held the position of President and both have hosted the tournament. This criteria sets them apart as among the very few who know both the responcibilities and commitiments of hosting the tournament, as well as providing the leadership and support among the community to unwravel this mess.

I promise you this, if we do force ourselves to split, it will destroy the community that Ariddia worked so hard to build. I for one do not wish to see that happen on my watch, do you?

Far as I can see, this is pretty much the first time this discussion has occurred at this level, and the only people who aren't happy with it so far are you, Taeshan and Yafor II.

I spent over an hour proving exactly what you want me to prove (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14518716&postcount=8035), and I made that argument, along with about ten others. Try reading. Please.

It's interesting, actually. It was remarkably civil until people stopped reading posts and started dismissing entire arguments in one or two sentences.

Oh, and have Star and Arch decide? After all the effort I put into this? I'd like to have a say, thank you very much. I've proven amenable to a variety of ideas (see my response to Han). It's called "having an open mind". Some here should try it.

EDIT: Oh, and I've responded to arguments. See my thing with Star earlier. That was my intent - not blabbering nonsense and blithe shouting.

Hi.

This is a list, hopefully complete (notify me if it isn't, I've already added multiple accidental omissions), of the proposals, in various degrees of formality, that have been presented to the community. Thanks to Krytenia for making the suggestion.

If more come, I'll do my best to edit them in.

I have tried to group them in some resemblance of a meaningful outline.

That is all.

1. Current system
1.1 No changes
1.2 Name change
2. Alter EWCC membership
2.1 Liventia, 7942
2.2 Bostopia, 7494
2.3 Bears Armed, minor hosts
2.4 The Archregimancy, Pres and VP
2.5 Qazox 2
2.6 Proposal E1
2.7 Sarzonia, 8064
3. Other compromise
3.1 Double voting power
3.11 WC hosts
3.12 Other hosts
4. Abolish/drastically curtail EWCC
4.1 Abolish
4.2 Tae14
4.3 Qazox 1


1. No change from current system
1.1 No change
1.2 “Proposal KR4 a.k.a The Newmanistan Clause”
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14486099&postcount=7904

2. Expand EWCC

2.1 Liventia: 5 members who have voted in two of the last 3 elections for which they were eligible http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14488067&postcount=7942
2.2 Bostopian FA: add 3 members elected by WCC who have posted rosters for last 5 cups, 2-cup terms
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14488348&postcount=7947
2.3 Bears Armed: add all BoF, CoH hosts http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14488537&postcount=7952
2.4 The Archregimancy: add current president and vice-president http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14492007&postcount=7962
2.5 Qazox 2: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14519661&postcount=8059
2.6 Proposal E1: reduce EWCC size (automatic criteria to fill) http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14519743&postcount=8061
2.7 Sarzonia: reduce EWCC size (reserved slots) http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14519800&postcount=8064

3. Other compromise

3.11 All WCC members vote on all bids, WC hosts’ votes count double (Nethertopia, Qazox 3)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14487956&postcount=7937
3.12 All WCC members vote on all bids, all hosts’ votes count double (Valanora)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14519499&postcount=8053


4. Abolish/drastically curtail EWCC

4.1 Abolish
4.2 Tae14—keep EWCC to replace hosts http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14488537&postcount=7952
4.3 Qazox 1—tiebreakers (“emergencies”) only http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14519661&postcount=8059

I have absolutely no idea what is going on.

In other news -- Sandrians delighted with revenge victory over the Bears!

Are you trying to run for public office or something? I mean, it's a bit random for everyone to hear your voting record in public all of a sudden.



Predict me, then.



Really?



No. This excludes newer nations or nations who have been unlucky - like Bears Armed or Newmanistan, who, while I may disagree with them (in Newmanistan's case, about nearly everything), I know that I would accept being in a ruling body. These qualifications are fabricated out of thin air - I'd like to see the thought process that came up with these, please.

1- NO.
2- You're one of the unpredictable ones.
3- Yes.
4- When I said qualifications, I meant qualifying attempts. It will be corrected.

Proposal E1

The EWCC shall be made up of those nations that fulfil all of the following criteria:
Must have participated in the last three World Cup tournaments, and have at least posted a roster for each.
Must have hosted or co-hosted a WCC-sanctioned tournament.
If an existing member, must have voted in at least one of the previous three EWCC votes.

Should any of these criteria no longer be met, the EWCC member will be suspended until they re-fulfil criteria 1 and 2. (That will entail hosting another tournament.)

Former WCC Presidents, the current WCC President and VP, and World Cup Founder Ariddia, will be exempt from suspension as a mark of gratitude for their service.

This should "trim the fat" of the EWCC, and make it more open.


SARZONIA:
If there must be a EWCC other than the Executive Cabinet (President and Vice President), I'd support a system whereby members of the WCC vote from within their own ranks for EWCC members. Rather than simply allow any wanker to be part of a new EWCC, you can set it up so that four slots are reserved for former World Cup hosts and four are elected by the WCC at large. Or if there must be an odd number of voters, four former hosts and five elected members.

...

So back to my original intention:

First: Do we or don't we have an EWCC?

Second: Who makes it? (membership)

Third: What does it do?


Isn't this what the WCDT is really for?
In fact I like Krytenia's and Sarzonia's proposals even better than the 2nd proposal I have made. I know there's NO CHANCE that #3 would ever be passed, but it still gives the EWCC vote some weight.

My Opinion to Daehan's ?'s
1- We don't really need one, but if we have to..
2- The WCC members themselves in a vote independent of World Cup hostings.
3- For EMERGENCIES, like the ones I have proposed in my 1st Proposal.

Those who're arguing in favour of scrapping the EWCC are only using the "elitist" argument though. All I can see if Yaf trying to bat away the arguments of those against scrapping the EWCC. But neither Yaf nor Sarz has come up with any argument better than "it doesn't need to exist".

What ain't broke don't need fixing.

It is "elitist" and some of the current membership of the EWCC haven't been seen in a while: Nations like: Turori/Vilita and Geisenfried; while Nations like myself who have been very active participants in the World Cup, who for various reasons haven't hosted a World Cup, should have a say in the BoF and CoH hosting votes. Since only 32 of the 60-65 truly active nations actually make the world Cup, shouldn't the other 30 or so at least have a vote as to who will host the CoH they will be competing in?

Occasionally a nation on the EWCC been in the CoH, but more often than not they are either a World Cup co-host,, or have qualified for the Cup; so who does it really matter to them who hosts a tourney that they are not a part of? LE, if you want the status quo to remain, then just have the EWCC be the only one to vote on ANYTHING.

As far as I've been here, I don't think the EWCC has done anything important, other than voting for the BoF and CoH hosts.

Woah, woah, right, ok. Play nice you people, particularly Sarz and Qazox (who I single out because no-one else has said 'bullshit' and 'wanker' in their posts).

Attempt to play voice-of-reason, here, by your friendly big purple machine:

There is no consensus either way as to whether we keep or get rid of the EWCC. The Anti- side say that it's elitist and pointless and that having the WCC vote on everything would be no worse. They also challenge the Pro side to prove why keeping the EWCC would be a good thing. The Pro- side say that it's been working for the last 20-something cups, rewards the work a host puts into this game and is a body of people who should know what a good host looks like when they come across one.

Right? Okay (assuming that was a yes).

The onus should not be put onto the Pro-EWCC side to prove that it works. The proof is that we're at World Cup 45, not still at WC19. It has done it's job for the last twenty-odd Cups just fine, thank-you very much. Saying "there's no real argument to keep it, so let's get rid of it in place of something where there's no real argument for it either, because that's equally bad, but no worse!" is not a reason to change things.

Here's my solution/topic for discussion - note this is not a proposal, because random proposals are largely ignored (we need a better system for the random proposals too, btw)


1) Everybody who participates gets to vote on the World Cup hosts, the most important part of voting.
We're all fine with that one, yes? We're not into smashing the system that much.

2) Everybody who participates gets to vote on the BoF and CoH hosts, other important parts of voting.
You know what, just go ahead and try it, to see if it makes any difference by the time WC50 comes around (after any novelty effects have disappeared). Keep a record of how the EWCC votes would have gone, too, to see if it's actually made any difference to the results. There are lots of arguments both for and against this, I know, but it can't hurt for the moment. We can always drop it if things go badly wrong.

3) Retain a group of people for the Emergency WCC, or equivalent body.
There absolutely must be a group of people, some of whom are online regularly/all the time, who are knowledgeable, experienced and involved, in order for dead-quick consultations/mini-votes to be carried out. If something goes suddenly and massively wrong, we need that rapid-reaction force (for want of a better description) to smooth things out quickly.


If fail to see any vast improvement in this system over the current one. But as the tenuous argument goes: it can't be any worse, so lets shake everything up for the sake of it. I like the current system but, then again, I'm a two-time WC host and former WCC President who, whatever happens, will probably meet the requirements for some sort of new elitist body or other. I'm not a WC player who doesn't have the time/inclination/skill to host but desperately wants to stick my oar into BoF and CoH votes.

k?

Modified proposal for EWCC memebership: add (if they don't already qualify anyway...) BoF & CoH hosts, WCC President & Vice-President, and the winners of the latest (two? three?) BoF, CoH, & World Cup...

Modified proposal for EWCC memebership: add (if they don't already qualify anyway...) BoF & CoH hosts, WCC President & Vice-President, and the winners of the latest (two? three?) BoF, CoH, & World Cup...

Not to be harsh, but I think adding BoF winners, especially the most recent ones, to an EMERGENCY or EXECUTIVE committee would be downright illogical, given the very fact they would be totally new and might not even care that much.

As a Bof winner, I can agree with that. Even if I were ready to do such things now, I certainly wasn't when I won the competition.

Not to be harsh, but I think adding BoF winners, especially the most recent ones, to an EMERGENCY or EXECUTIVE committee would be downright illogical, given the very fact they would be totally new and might not even care that much.OOC: I know, and from an OOC viewpoint I suppose I agree with you, but consider that to be an IC suggestion: Remember who the latest BoF winner is? ^_^

As a Bof winner, I can agree with that. Even if I were ready to do such things now, I certainly wasn't when I won the competition.

Agreed.

1) Everybody who participates gets to vote on the World Cup hosts, the most important part of voting.
We're all fine with that one, yes? We're not into smashing the system that much.

2) Everybody who participates gets to vote on the BoF and CoH hosts, other important parts of voting.
You know what, just go ahead and try it, to see if it makes any difference by the time WC50 comes around (after any novelty effects have disappeared). Keep a record of how the EWCC votes would have gone, too, to see if it's actually made any difference to the results. There are lots of arguments both for and against this, I know, but it can't hurt for the moment. We can always drop it if things go badly wrong.

3) Retain a group of people for the Emergency WCC, or equivalent body.
There absolutely must be a group of people, some of whom are online regularly/all the time, who are knowledgeable, experienced and involved, in order for dead-quick consultations/mini-votes to be carried out. If something goes suddenly and massively wrong, we need that rapid-reaction force (for want of a better description) to smooth things out quickly.

Ignoring for a second the actual responses within your post and moving to the meat of it (this), I can tell you that I'm rather clearly out in favor of this. I like it. :)

We can figure out the meat and drink of the qualification, numbers, nomenclature and powers of a reformed EWCC later, but if 'opening BoF and CoH votes up to the WCC in general' was what you wanted, why not just ask for it? :confused:

If you notice my arguments throughout the thread, they've all dealt with "opening BoF and CoH votes to the WCC in general". I figured it was obvious that that was my intention - next time I'll make it a little more clear.

Ah, I was too distracted by the 'SMASH THE ELITIST AND POINTLESS EWCC!' stuff.

:$ (apparently I need to add more to my message, so here's a line of text).

*me throws a book of Legalese into a fire-pit and torches it with tar and gasoline*

Well, don't need that anymore...

I wish everything was a lot simpler from the start so that people like me wouldn't confundle the whole thing with opinions. If Starblaydia's proposed discussion-for-a-proposal is the topic for discussion, then hopefully it's a step in the right direction.

*me throws a book of Legalese into a fire-pit and torches it with tar and gasoline*

Poor Legalese... I should probably invade his ex-territory again.

Simply, I think we just need to get a consensus on my WCC idea, then talk about how an EWCC should be reformed for proper Emergency situations ('WCC President needs an experienced vote on an opinion/idea in the next 30 seconds!').

Assuming the consensus on the idea that the WCC get to vote for BoF, WC and CoH exists, of course...

Poor Legalese... I should probably invade his ex-territory again.

Simply, I think we just need to get a consensus on my WCC idea, then talk about how an EWCC should be reformed for proper Emergency situations ('WCC President needs an experienced vote on an opinion/idea in the next 30 seconds!').

Assuming the consensus on the idea that the WCC get to vote for BoF, WC and CoH exists, of course...

Oddly, according to the WCC rules that I just recently collated/copied&pasted/etc. (paraphrased lightly):

If no bid receives an absolute majority in a vote (to choose the World Cup host...), the World Cup President shall hold a second round of voting between the top two vote winners of the first round. In the case of a second round tie, a vote of the EWCC will be held to decide the winning vote.

Accordingly, our most recent BoF vote had a similar situation (minus the second round tie); but barring the President's option to remain impartial and thus having the opportunity for the untying vote, if we were presented with a situation in which the BoF second round vote was still a tie, the EWCC tie-breaker would be in fact null and void, since the only eligible voting members for the BoF would be EWCC members. Of course, the original rule stated only the World Cup...

And there are other rules for achieving majority requirements that were slightly overlooked...


EDIT - Not to mention, the EWCC is responsible for the selection/vote for an available replacement hosts in case of an emergency.

your friendly big purple machine

As opposed to what me the not as big unfriendly purple chaemical

(just saying stuff putting it out there)

Hello all, I am back for good this time hopefully.

Ignoring for a second the actual responses within your post and moving to the meat of it (this), I can tell you that I'm rather clearly out in favor of this. I like it. :)

Agreed on ALL counts. Except the spelling of "favour" of course. ;)

Also, can I have a link to the latest rankings to see where I have slid toÉ

Umm, Snorth, you lost to me in extra time, not penalties...

your friendly big purple machine

As opposed to what me the not as big unfriendly purple chaemical

(just saying stuff putting it out there)

You're like Hornswoggle in a purple suit. Lovable...we guess, but really bad on the eyes.

You're like Hornswoggle in a purple suit. Lovable...we guess, but really bad on the eyes.

I thought you'd say he was like Barney.

LOLZ, a full team dressed as Barney the Dinosaur running out ...

I thought you'd say he was like Barney.

I said lovable, Barney is no such thing.

Also, can I have a link to the latest rankings to see where I have slid toÉ

Unless you've been in the last three cups (42-44), which I don't recall you being in, you are no longer ranked.

Unless you've been in the last three cups (42-44), which I don't recall you being in, you are no longer ranked.

Actually,

Signor Quakmybush was present in the past World Cup edition (at least in the sign-ups...) and as a result of his inactivity (or perhaps the inactivity of his results...), Quakmybush is now currently ranked 46th in the World.

*re-reads that last statement*

:eek: :eek2: (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14476434&postcount=7814)
^clik'em^

I said lovable, Barney is no such thing.

*looks for that last post made and re-writes "Barney" for "book of Legalese"*

If there were ever thing to be burned at the stake for heresy, it would that (http://www.thecostumeshop.ie/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/barney.jpg).

Wow i should really think before posting based on the fact that now im Barney or a likeness to him. I guess i should now go home and kill myself as every other barney has. Oh wait i am home Grabs a gun. Pow. Crap i missed. Anyways that was just a comical not earlier about how based on Starblaydias similar in fact i believe same color as me i was just making a comment of being in a big purple shadow if you know what i mean

Wow i should really think before posting based on the fact that now im Barney or a likeness to him. I guess i should now go home and kill myself as every other barney has. Oh wait i am home Grabs a gun. Pow. Crap i missed. Anyways that was just a comical not earlier about how based on Starblaydias similar in fact i believe same color as me i was just making a comment of being in a big purple shadow if you know what i mean

Congratulations! You've just made the illogical but nonetheless hilarious connection between the Purple Menace and the Menacing Purple. We'll leave it to Starblaydia to vehemently insist that he is not Barney.

I thought you'd say he was like Barney.

in the event Starblaydia needs someone to n00k for such an utterance

Purple Menace and the Menacing Purple

Um witch one is witch

Congratulations! You've just made the illogical but nonetheless hilarious connection between the Purple Menace and the Menacing Purple. We'll leave it to Starblaydia to vehemently insist that he is not Barney.

in the event Starblaydia needs someone to n00k for such an utterance

Duuuude, I was saying Taeshan, not Starblaydia is like Barney.

I've seen Starblaydia's pic. He looks nothing like Barney. I don't know what Taeshan looks like.

LOLZ, a full team dressed as Barney the Dinosaur running out ...

Don't give PRUX any ideas.

*plants a Bug in Jolt that will EXPLODE every remark related to Barney*

Wow i should really think before posting based on the fact that now im Barney or a likeness to him. I guess i should now go home and kill myself as every other barney has. Oh wait i am home Grabs a gun. Pow. Crap i missed. Anyways that was just a comical not earlier about how based on Starblaydias similar in fact i believe same color as me i was just making a comment of being in a big purple shadow if you know what i mean

Speaking of soccer and suicide:

Baggio was so depressed after the '94 world cup that he took a gun and tried to kill himself, but he shot high.

Speaking of soccer and suicide:

Baggio was so depressed after the '94 world cup that he took a gun and tried to kill himself, but he shot high.

That is so funny, in a wrong way.:p:eek2:

LOLZ, a full team dressed as Barney the Dinosaur running out ...
Didn't that occur as anybody's "worst nightmares" when they were playing against The Holy Empire? No?!? ;)

We'll leave it to Starblaydia to vehemently insist that he is not Barney.

Certainly not.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm1/Starblayde/StarBarneydia.jpg

Don't give PRUX any ideas.

Speaking of which, Prux, can I use Dr. Mbembe the guy who was controlling the zombie team for something?

Speaking of soccer and suicide:

Baggio was so depressed after the '94 world cup that he took a gun and tried to kill himself, but he shot high.

Groan. Scott Norwood, wide right, same joke.

Groan. Scott Norwood, wide right, same joke.

An inspiration to future Florida State placekickers?

Didn't that occur as anybody's "worst nightmares" when they were playing against The Holy Empire? No?!? ;)

That was a giant purple squid.

Certainly not.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm1/Starblayde/StarBarneydia.jpg

Considering your Mac problems, are you sure comparing yourself to an extinct animal is a good idea?

Considering your Mac problems, are you sure comparing yourself to an extinct animal is a good idea?

At least he didn't say he was a naked oxen. :tongue:

At least he didn't say he was a naked oxen. :tongue:
And for this, I am truly grateful.

*plants a Bug in Jolt that will EXPLODE every remark related to Barney*

I sincerely apologize for breaking Jolt... apparently, Barney is all that Jolt thinks about (of course, leave it to Jolt to determine which one is a purple-freakazoid or a brawny chap...)

Purple teams seem to like Jeruselem - Star follows my team around and Taeshan likes doing friendlies.

I have a hosting question. How will we be able to notify you about scheduled friendlies and is there a numeric limit to games every friendly period.

As i've stated before... Qaqzox is no longer NUDE.. except in hockey. Those guys are nut jobs anyway....

I have a hosting question. How will we be able to notify you about scheduled friendlies and is there a numeric limit to games every friendly period.

Can't speak for the current hosts but in the past few cups there's been a general limit of 3 per period, I believe.

...
11 ST Achmed the Dead Terrorist
Silence! I kill you!
...


LOL What no Jose Jalepeno on a Steeeck?

I'm suprised that you didn't have Jeff Dunham be the coach!

LOL What no Jose Jalepeno on a Steeeck?

I'm suprised that you didn't have Jeff Dunham be the coach!

Have you ever seen a stick playing football? :P

Have you ever seen a stick playing football? :P

Well, if cheese, bears, robots, an egg, robo-ducks and robo-chickens can play , why not a jalepeno pepper... on a steeeck?

I have a hosting question. How will we be able to notify you about scheduled friendlies and is there a numeric limit to games every friendly period.

Oh yes ... friendly accepted!

STARBLAYDIA= http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm1/Starblayde/StarBarneydia.jpg

a.k.a: Barney on Steroids

Taeshan= http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/87/Barney.gif
a.k.a: Barney on WEED!

With this post, I have passed Hank Aaron as the all time spam king! (on the WCDT2!)

So you're saying that Taeshan keeps trying to steal your Fruity Pebbles?

I have a hosting question. How will we be able to notify you about scheduled friendlies and is there a numeric limit to games every friendly period.
Please TG scheduled friendlies to New Manhattan.

The numeric limit for a team per friendly day is generally three, though exceptions may be made.

a.k.a: Barney on WEED!

With this post, I have passed Hank Aaron as the all time spam king! (on the WCDT2!)

Ironic that you did that in a post saying someone was on something? ;)

Have you ever seen a stick playing football? :P

Peter Crouch?

With this post, I have passed Hank Aaron as the all time spam king! (on the WCDT2!)

I'd imagine that would be the time to stop spamming.

Qazox? Stop Spaamming? Impossible

Qazox? Stop Spaamming? Impossible

Quakmybush? Sign up to a WC and actually RP through it? Impossible. ;)

One elf ready to hunt Star down.
http://lotro.tentonhammer.com/files/images/elf_portrait.jpg

One elf ready to hunt Star down.


You have my sword
http://type-98.lix.jp/area_01/topics/img/toy02/cs_dancougar_01.jpg

And my bow
http://www.animeandtoystore.com/images/super%20robot%20best%20posing%20raideen.jpg

AND MY AXE
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/Goldgaigar/SOC/Revoltech/Revo_1st_Shin7.jpg

Okay, I have to admit, that is hilarious xD

Lads (and the occasional ladette),

I've been forced by RL circumstances to take a temporary break from NS. Nothing too serious (given that the state of my health is fairly well known), promise, and I should be back on-line properly from Saturday.

I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused by the temporary absence of your president. I have no problem with VP Zwangzug or anyone else with access to the NS Signups account organising what might still need to be done for WC45.

I realise that I committed myself to holding a vote on various proposals on EWCC reform that were floating about. Could anyone who wanted to submit a proposal please TG me with that proposal, and I'll try to organise the vote from Sunday.

Again, apologies for any inconvenience caused by my temporary, but unavoidable, absence.

Your WCC president

Quakmybush? Sign up to a WC and actually RP through it? Impossible. ;)

Hi Kettle. Let me introduce you to Pot.

What's that you say, Pot? He's black? Oh heavens!

:tongue:

Well, if cheese, bears, robots, an egg, robo-ducks and robo-chickens can play , why not a jalepeno pepper... on a steeeck?

Meh, Achmed is more famous.

Peter Crouch?

Touché.

didint someone have a combination of all the proposals and a link to them they coukld give to Arch, and J i kinda figured that.

How many days are there left before the WC45 actually starts? There's an RP thread but....

How many days are there left before the WC45 actually starts? There's an RP thread but....
The World Cup qualifying draw will likely be on the 28th, and the first competitive matches on the 2nd of March, depending on signups (one more is needed to reach the desired eighty-two teams, assuming none of the current teams cease to exist). An official schedule will be made available once signups are closed.

The World Cup qualifying draw will likely be on the 28th, and the first competitive matches on the 2nd of March, depending on signups (one more is needed to reach the desired eighty-two teams, assuming none of the current teams cease to exist). An official schedule will be made available once signups are closed.
This is partially dependent on the whims of my girlfriend. She has a tendency to "claim" me at short (read: zero) notice. Hopefully, none of this will happen during the BoF...

Hi Kettle. Let me introduce you to Pot.

What's that you say, Pot? He's black? Oh heavens!

:tongue:

See, the difference is I don't just sign up then disappear altogether, only returning every two months to sign up to the next one.

blah...

NationStates... Vividly Confusing Real Life Since 2002.

NationStates... Vividly Confusing Real Life Since 2002.

NationStates... Where Sane People Argue About Fake Football since 2002.

NationStates... Where Sane People Argue About Fake Football since 2002.

Sane? Hey, speak for yourself. :p

I realise that I committed myself to holding a vote on various proposals on EWCC reform that were floating about. Could anyone who wanted to submit a proposal please TG me with that proposal, and I'll try to organise the vote from Sunday.

Here's mine, both posted here and TG'd to the Archreg. Hopefully it doesn't require a name, otherwise call it the Starblaydia Proposal :p


The World Cup Committee (WCC)
Nations shall gain a place on the WCC by virtue of:
i) having posted a valid* roster in the previous two World Cup Roster threads.
or
ii) being currently active whilst having hosted or co-hosted a World Cup tournament in the past.

The WCC will be entitled to vote on Baptism of Fire, World Cup and Cup of Harmony hosts, as well as in WCC Presidential elections.

There will also be an Emergency World Cup Committee formed (currently by former World Cup host nations, but with a future structure as to be decided by later discussion and vote) for emergency situations when the Committee or President require fast decisions from a respected voter base.

*'valid' meaning that the nation posted the roster while competing in the tournament, and did not post one retroactively by gravedigging old roster threads or posting rosters for tournaments they were not signed up for.

The Bostopian FA will not be submitting their proposal to voting, and are in full support of the proposal from Starblaydia.

In other news, my iMac troubles were being caused by a faulty stick of RAM which, after being replaced, means everything is running exactly as it should be, with no loss of either data or money, merely an hour of time spent at the Genius Bar of an Apple store.

Thank heavens for warranties.

Yey, I now know how old all my players are!

Yay! That's great news Star!

(Not that the RAM stick is faulty, but that you found out what happened AND you restored all your data!).

If I may suggest it again for anyone who has data they don't want to lose, try getting a thumb drive or a flash drive and backing up your important data that way. If something happens and you lose everything on your hard drive, at least then you'll have some way of restoring the data.

Back on topic (if there is such a thing, hah!), I withdraw my proposal and endorse Starblaydia's.

I just loaded up Time Machine to set that to back up to my external drive, but it wants to format itfirst. And thereby wipe many GBs of stuff that's already backed up.

Which is why I didn't do it in the first place.

Ah well, manual back-ups ftw!

The Incorporated Football Federation wishes to continue the Mike Sarzo Memorial Cup tournament that began with World Cup XLIV fixtures that also involved Starblaydia and The Archregimancy.

Any nations that wish to sign up for the MSMC to join Starblaydia and Sarzonia are sked to telegram IFF Chairman Dave Wilson (OOC: Or respond on this thread).

Again, the proceeds from the tournament will benefit cancer research, since our former president died of a particularly aggressive form of testicular cancer.

Thank you.

Carter Marshall
Vice President for Health and Athletics
Incorporated States of Sarzonia

[OOC: If you'd prefer to respond on this thread, you can do so; I'd like to finalise the list in four days so I can TG New Manhattan. But I'd like to have Starblaydia as a regular participant in the tournament since it was his idea.

And, yes, for anyone who's wondering, I faced testicular cancer IRL, but the real life version was a seminoma and didn't spread beyond the incision site. I only had to deal with single-dose chemotherapy and regular checkups. At last check with the doctor, he told me I didn't have to worry about the cancer.]

Coolio, we'd like to host Sarzonia in our match, this time around, in the Stadii Di Bradini.

The Autocracy's national team is sorely in need of some international matches prior to the qualifiers kicking off. And at least we’ll know the heavy beatings will all be in aid of a good cause.

And I imagine Dave Wilson would enjoy watching his side take apart the Hyppos . . .

How about the first international match at the newly built Iron Bowl?

So far, the MSMC feature the following fixtures (home teams listed first):
Starblaydia v. Sarzonia
Sarzonia v. Hypocria

Sounds good to me. What kind of format does the tournament run on?

The way it worked last time with three teams (The Archregimancy, Starblaydia and Sarzonia) was Starblaydia and Sarzonia played at Bryan Marshall Memorial Stadium before qualifyers, then Starblaydia and The Archregimancy played mid-qualifyers. Sarzonia then hosted The Archregimancy post-qualifying. The team that had the most points won the Cup.

If there are more teams, I can send the order of the fixtures to New Manhattan.

Right, here are some Nethertopian friendly requests.
Pre:
- C&M, your place, fourth Battle of Rushmore?
- Taeshan, fancy a match in Tenderville, Nethertopia?

Mid:
-We'd like to invite Newmanistan and Koseli Cumhuriyetler to our country for a BoF 27 reunion tournament.

Post:
No invites, if you'd like to play against us feel free to ask it in this thread or contact us through TG.

The way it worked last time with three teams (The Archregimancy, Starblaydia and Sarzonia) was Starblaydia and Sarzonia played at Bryan Marshall Memorial Stadium before qualifyers, then Starblaydia and The Archregimancy played mid-qualifyers. Sarzonia then hosted The Archregimancy post-qualifying. The team that had the most points won the Cup.

If there are more teams, I can send the order of the fixtures to New Manhattan.

Everything's better with Krytenians. Fancy making this a four-team tourney?

can i join world cup ? i just start the game...
How you play soccer?
i read in wiki about some programms. We use them or the host?

Ladies and gentlemen, the Proof that my RL Brother either (a)- Has watched WAY TOO MUCH TV, or (b) Smokes Pot too much is here: Prux's WC 45 Roster (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14537482&postcount=29)

Everything's better with Krytenians. Fancy making this a four-team tourney?

You'd definitely be welcome!

Current fixtures (home side listed first):
PRE: Sarzonia v. Hypocria (The new Iron Bowl, Portland)
Starblaydia v. Krytenia (Stadii Di Bradini, Jhanna)
MID: Starblaydia v. Sarzonia (Stadii Di Bradini, Jhanna)
Hypocria v. Krytenia (Hyppodrome, Hypocrium)
POST: Sarzonia v. Krytenia (Mike Sarzo Stadium, Nicksia)
Hypocria v. Starblaydia (Hyppodrome, Hypocrium)

Of course, if the participants prefer changing the venues, I'm amenable to them. The one that's fixed is Starblaydia hosting Sarzonia at Stadii Di Bradini. I'd like to inaugurate the new Mike Sarzo Stadium in Nicksia for a match at some point and I'd like to show off the new Iron Bowl in Portland.

Peisandros is keen to get some friendlies sorted out. Would anyone be interested? Like to test out the new ranking a bit!

Friendly Requests:

Pre-qualifying: Dancougar, to continue Bird on Skates tradition.
Daehanjeiguk, as a way of kicking off the "Samseong" sponsorship (in Newmanistan).

Mid-qualifying Nethertopian offer accepted.

Post-qualifying:
at Jeruselem
at Secristan

You'd definitely be welcome!

Current fixtures (home side listed first):
PRE: Sarzonia v. Hypocria (The new Iron Bowl, Portland)
MID: Hypocria v. Krytenia (Hyppodrome, Hypocrium City (is that right?)
POST: Hypocria v. Starblaydia (Hyppodrome, Hypocrium City)

Close, it’s just Hypocrium. And the Autocracy would be delighted to welcome the Cyan Army to the newly refurbished and even shinier Hyppodrome. And that mauve lot n'all I suppose . . . :P

Of course, if the participants prefer changing the venues, I'm amenable to them. The one that's fixed is Starblaydia hosting Sarzonia at Stadii Di Bradini. I'd like to inaugurate the new Mike Sarzo Stadium in Nicksia for a match at some point and I'd like to show off the new Iron Bowl in Portland.

And we're of course happy to play at the new Iron Bowl as in your provisional schedule.

Presidential announcement

I've had two proposals for EWCC reform TGd to me (from Qaz and Star). You have until about 18:00 UK time to get further proposals to me. Any proposals not TGd to me will not go forward.

I'm doing this to be difficult; my time on NS is still limited this weekend, but I do want to honour my commitment to hold a vote on the topic. Given that there were multiple putative proposals several pages back, asking you to TG me proposals both saves me time and makes sure that the proposals are fully endorsed by their proposer rather than requiring me to second guess which proposals were intended to go forward, and which were hypothetical.

Thanks in advance for your help and support.

Nethertopia: I'm down for that tournement.

Peisandros: I'll go for a pre qual against you if you like.

Yep Koseli, that'd be good. Book you in for the first one then?

Right, here are some Nethertopian friendly requests.
Pre:
- C&M, your place, fourth Battle of Rushmore?
- Taeshan, fancy a match in Tenderville, Nethertopia?

Mid:
-We'd like to invite Newmanistan and Koseli Cumhuriyetler to our country for a BoF 27 reunion tournament.

Post:
No invites, if you'd like to play against us feel free to ask it in this thread or contact us through TG.
How do you & your team feel about a post-qualifiers match here in Bears Armed?

How do you & your team feel about a post-qualifiers match here in Bears Armed?

Luvly. We'll be there.

Bears, how about a pre qualifier with us? Sorta like another BoF final, timing wise.

Bears, how about a pre qualifier with us? Sorta like another BoF final, timing wise.Okay. Where?

*clears throat*

In other news, my iMac troubles were being caused by a faulty stick of RAM which, after being replaced, means everything is running exactly as it should be, with no loss of either data or money, merely an hour of time spent at the Genius Bar of an Apple store.

Thank heavens for warranties.

Yey, I now know how old all my players are!

Thank goodness for second chances!

Ladies and gentlemen, the Proof that my RL Brother either (a)- Has watched WAY TOO MUCH TV, or (b) Smokes Pot too much is here: Prux's WC 45 Roster (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14537482&postcount=29)

*some random presenter guy*

"And now your Prux World Cup 45 Squad! The Perverts!

*reads "adverts"*

meh, waza diffrenshe?


Daehanjeiguk, as a way of kicking off the "Samseong" sponsorship (in Newmanistan).

The IFA would be more than happy to oblige. I suppose have some TGs to send out to the hosts some time in the near future.

And me just being really happy...

!!!수원 블루윙즈!!! (http://goal.com/en/news/14/asia/2009/02/22/1121674/pan-pacific-suwon-bluewings-claim-title-after-la-galaxy-win)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cd/SuwonBluewingsFCwith3Stars.png/150px-SuwonBluewingsFCwith3Stars.png

C&M - any interest in a friendly or two, perhaps at the beginning and end of qualifying? In Caires, perhaps? I'm up for it. :)

Anways Nethertopia our frindly with you has been listed as a post qualifier in recent history and it i believe is our turn to host, anyqways a confirmation later of this woul be good.

So far i believe i have confrims for Jerselem, Peisiandros, and someone else anyways those will be soon tged
still looking for these confirms
Pre-Myedvedeyan
Mid-Daehannjeiguk
Post-CandM
Post-SN
Sarzonia ,mid i believe

that other nation would be Dae, and secondly Sarz matfch would be a mid qual

Anways Nethertopia our frindly with you has been listed as a post qualifier in recent history and it i believe is our turn to host, anyqways a confirmation later of this woul be good.

Sure, post at your place is all right. Current Nethertopian schedule:

Pre:
* Candelaria And Marquez - Nethertopia (unconfirmed)
* [Open spot]

Mid (tournament in Nethertopia):
* Nethertopia - Newmanistan
* Koseli Cumhuriyetler - Nethertopia
* (Newmanistan - Koseli Cumhiruyetler)

Post:
* Bears Armed - Nethertopia
* Taeshan - Nethertopia

Post-qualifying:
at Secristan

We accept.

How about a Baptism of Fire 30 reunion tournament, post-qualifying? Us, Myedvedeya and Cassadaigua. And Urna Eletronica if you're out there!

Friendly Requests:

Pre-qualifying: Dancougar, to continue Bird on Skates tradition.

You bet; send it in!

Anways Nethertopia our frindly with you has been listed as a post qualifier in recent history and it i believe is our turn to host, anyqways a confirmation later of this woul be good.

So far i believe i have confrims for Jerselem, Peisiandros, and someone else anyways those will be soon tged
still looking for these confirms
Pre-Myedvedeyan
Mid-Daehannjeiguk
Post-CandM
Post-SN
Sarzonia ,mid i believe

Assuming we don't draw each other in a World Cup qualifying group again, you're on.

Your place or one of my new stadia?

C&M - any interest in a friendly or two, perhaps at the beginning and end of qualifying? In Caires, perhaps? I'm up for it. :)

As am I. Mebbe in Caires pre-qualifying and... wherever Ramen play, post-qualifying? I leave ye to send the relavent TG if that's acceptable, then :)


Post-CandM


Sure... Your place or mine?


Pre:
- C&M, your place, fourth Battle of Rushmore?


Your place, and... you already know this. Why am I replying to this? We were discussing it all of five minutes ago.

Oh, what the heck. Multi-quoting is fun.

I suppose it would probably be a good idea to schedule a few friendlies for our new manager (whoever it ends up being) to get his feet wet, so to speak.

And of course there's nothing better than renewing some old rivalries.

If at all possible, we'd like to suggest:

Our first official opponents and continual scourge of Vephrese clubs in international competition Candelaria And Marquez. Preferably in C&M, but we'd be perfectly happy to host it ourselves as well.
Nothing says rivalry, of course, like "next-door neighbor". So why haven't we played Kura-Pelland since WC40? This situation really should be rectified with a home-and-home series (pre- and post-qual). ;)
Similarly, a home-and-home series (pre- and mid-qual) against those bloody separatists in Panuul. Which, that being my puppet and all, really isn't so much of a request as a general notification.
And maybe some rivalries in other sports can take root here as well. With the fans understandably unhappy about the two losses (including a shutout) to Taeshan in the World Bowl, I think they might like to see us take them down at Ellime e Vephrall, say post-qualifying. And perhaps Arroza's uppance should come at mid-qual. :p


I think that ought to do it. :)

IMPORTANT PRESIDENTIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

Voting for EWCC reform proposals is now open.

Full details are available here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14538660&postcount=74

Thanks to everyone involved for their patience and cooperation.


With that done, who knows... I might actually find the time to post a roster or occasional RP over the next couple of days!

Hmm, so:

Proposal 1 just puts the WCC in charge of all hosting votes and sets the EWCC up for debate later.

Proposal 2... oh my god how complicated for EWCC membership?

Proposal 3 - oooooh nomenclature!

Proposal 4 trims the fat of the EWCC quite drastically.

Proposal 5 does 1 and 3 and increases the size of the EWCC.

Proposal 6 is rockin' all over the world.


Simple choice. Kinda.

*cough*propaganda*cough*

Star, would your team care for a trip to Nethertopia, to play a pre qualifying friendly?

Hmm...unfortunately most of the teams we have rivalries with in Football would crush us on the soccer field.

@ Vephrall [mid-qual] - Accepted.

Friendly Proposals:
Secristan [Pre-Qual]
@ Cassadaigua [Pre-Qual]
@ Bears Armed [Mid-Qual]

Friendly Proposals:
Secristan [Pre-Qual]


Accepted

Qazox requests its usual WC friendlies:

vs. Demot @ Capitializt SLANI
vs. Capitializt SLANI @ Demot.

Both BEFORE the World Cup.

So, I'm trawling through my database, and I'm thinking "let's play some familiar temas in friendlies."

So I worked out who I'd played most, and decided to ask them.

Turns out I've played Squornshelous more than anyone else (11), and second and third places (Star/Sarz, both 10) were already claimed - oh, and Spaam are inactive (4th, 9 times) So... further down the list we have:

CAPITALIZT SLANI (5th, 8 games): Challenged to a mid-qualifying friendly at a UCS stadium of your choosing.

QAZOX (=6th, 7 games): Pre-qualifying, New City Stadium, Avidia.

VALANORA/DEMOT (both =9th, 6 games): Post-qualifying vs Demot away please.

We also hand out open requests for the mid and post qualifiers...but we're keeping our puppets in Krytenia for a little while after the BoF...

CURRENT FRIENDLY SCHEDULE
Pre-Quals
H v Logria - Confirmed
A v Starblaydia - Confirmed
H v Qazox - Pending

Mid-Quals
A v Hypocria - Confirmed
A v UCS SLANI - Pending
H v ???? - Slot Available

Post-Quals
A v Sarzonia - Confirmed
A v Demot - Pending
H v ???? - Slot Available

A few random friendly requests/suggestions:

C&M - if you've still got room in your schedule, I'm sure you can hear Moorcroft calling.

Newmanistan - similarly, if you have time, perhaps a trip to Mort Park - if you can bear to revisit the scene of your Cup of Harmony heartbreak?

Krytenia - I'll send a team over to you if you wish - I'll let you decide which slot you wish us to fill.

Cassadaigua - Anywhere, any time. No, I mean the football...

WEST ZIRCONIA: Accepted! You'll be playing us mid-quals, at ArenaWest in Aigburth.

CURRENT FRIENDLY SCHEDULE
Pre-Quals
H v Logria - Confirmed
A v Starblaydia - Confirmed
H v Qazox - Pending

Mid-Quals
A v Hypocria - Confirmed
A v UCS SLANI - Pending
H v West Zirconia - Confirmed

Post-Quals
A v Sarzonia - Confirmed
A v Demot - Pending
H v ???? - Slot Available[/QUOTE]

Most of Sarzonia's current World Cup XLV friendly schedule involves the Mike Sarzo Memorial Cup, save for its mid-qualifying friendly against Taeshan, which will be cancelled if Sarzonia and Taeshan are drawn into the same qualifying group.

CURRENT FIXTURES (Home side listed first):
PRE: Sarzonia v. Hypocria (The Iron Bowl, Portland, Somerset, Sarzonia)
Starblaydia v. Krytenia (Stadii Di Bradini, Jhanna, Starblaydia)

MID: Starblaydia v. Sarzonia (Stadii Di Bradini, Jhanna, Starblaydia)
Hypocria v. Krytenia (Hyppodrome, Hypocrium)
Mid-Q: Sarzonia v. Taeshan (Bryan Marshall Memorial Stadium, Woodstock, Sarzonia)*

POST: Sarzonia v. Krytenia (Mike Sarzo Stadium, Nicksia, Benatar, Sarzonia)
Hypocria v. Starblaydia (Hyppodrome, Hypocrium)

*Pending confirmation by Taeshan and World Cup draw.

Post-Quals
A v Demot - Pending

Accepted.

H v Qazox - Pending



Why Not? I accept.

<cough> <wheeze> <hack>

HA! HA! HA!

<hack> <wheeze> <cough>

Hey, AIF/Arch counts as ONE team, as far as I am concerned. So I stand by my statement.

Okay. Where?

We could make it a permanent fixture if you want, to be held in alternative countries? I'm not fussed about where we have it first though.

Krytenia if you still have a spot, other than pre qualifying, would you mind if I jumped in?

Our first official opponents and continual scourge of Vephrese clubs in international competition Candelaria And Marquez. Preferably in C&M, but we'd be perfectly happy to host it ourselves as well.


Indeedy-do. Mid-qualifying good for you?


C&M - if you've still got room in your schedule, I'm sure you can hear Moorcroft calling.


Indeedy-do. Mid-qualifying good for you?

Indeedy-do. Mid-qualifying good for you?

Yep, that'll work just fine. :)

Ok, here's what I've got set up so far for the defending champions' friendly schedule, which I'm finalising before I send to CH:


PRE:
Starblaydia v. Krytenia (Stadii Di Bradini, Jhanna, Starblaydia) - Mike Sarzo Memorial Trophy
Demot v. Starblaydia (Dynamo Park, Skyhaven, Demot)
Nethertopia v. Starblaydia

MID:
Starblaydia v. Sarzonia (Stadii Di Bradini, Jhanna, Starblaydia) - MSMT
Valanora v. Starblaydia (Artani, Mar Sara, Valanora)

POST:
Hypocria v. Starblaydia (Hyppodrome, Hypocrium) - MSMT

@ Bears Armed [Mid-Qual]
Accepted.

We could make it a permanent fixture if you want, to be held in alternative countries? I'm not fussed about where we have it first though.Sounds good. We'll come to you, this time.

________________________________________________

Would Jeru FC care for a pre-qualifiers friendly against the Bears, this time around at your place?

PEISANDROS: Accepted! You'll be playing us post-quals, at Walton Gardens in Simpson.

CURRENT FRIENDLY SCHEDULE
Pre-Quals
H v Logria - Confirmed
A v Starblaydia - Confirmed
H v Qazox - Confirmed

Mid-Quals
A v Hypocria - Confirmed
A v UCS SLANI - Pending
H v West Zirconia - Confirmed

Post-Quals
A v Sarzonia - Confirmed
A v Demot - Confirmed
H v Peisandros - Confirmed

Time to send this to CH.

Sarz yes
C and M my place
Neth noted

Just a heads-up: BoF will be finished on Thursday.

Friendly Schedule.

Pre
Home vs Bears Armed. (National Sports Arena, Olympia)
vs Koseli Cumhuriyetler.

Mid
Two open slots!

Post
Away vs Krytenia.
Another open slot.


Koseli Cumhuriyetler would it be okay to have the friendly at yours?
Annnnyone else keen for a few games? Got three slots!

Would Jeru FC care for a pre-qualifiers friendly against the Bears, this time around at your place?

Sure thing Bears! <restrains from a bear joke>

Friendly Schedule.

Pre
Home vs Bears Armed. (National Sports Arena, Olympia)
vs Koseli Cumhuriyetler.

Mid
Two open slots!

Post
Away vs Krytenia.
Another open slot.


Koseli Cumhuriyetler would it be okay to have the friendly at yours?
Annnnyone else keen for a few games? Got three slots!

Jeruselem will be willing to play a mid. We'll play it away to make it harder for ourselves.

Ad’ihan friendlies:

Pre-qualifying:
1. Battle of The Heartland (Liventia AWAY)
2. OPEN (preferably AWAY)
3. OPEN (preferably HOME)

Mid-qualifying:
1. Peisandros are welcome to Ad’ihan for a friendly if they so wish and if the two teams are not drawn against each other.
2. Battle of The Heartland (Liventia HOME)
3. OPEN

Post-qualifying:
We're up for a mini-tournament between three or four teams, as was the case during WC44. Any takers?

Pre-Q:

Septentrionia - Ad'ihan (@ Stade du Rivage, Ourseville, Septentrionia)

Confirmed Septentrionia friendly.

On a separate note, going back to something discussed not too long ago when trying to deal with those multiple signups by the same person. It was mentioned that Dorian and Sonya as well as Andossa Se Mitrin Vega, despite being husband and wife, shared an IP address and were therefore considered puppet and parent nation.

On that note, doesn't that mean only one of Prux or Green Wombat could enter the WC, and even then as a puppet of Qazox (choose any arrangement)?

Confirmed Septentrionia friendly.

On a separate note, going back to something discussed not too long ago when trying to deal with those multiple signups by the same person. It was mentioned that Dorian and Sonya as well as Andossa Se Mitrin Vega, despite being husband and wife, shared an IP address and were therefore considered puppet and parent nation.

On that note, doesn't that mean only one of Prux or Green Wombat could enter the WC, and even then as a puppet of Qazox (choose any arrangement)?

WARNING: BIASED OPINION!

No.

We're all separate accounts, as have been so (in the case of GW and myself since WC 27. while Prux came in in WC37 or WC38) for many Cups and no one has complained about it (as far as i know of). I think about a year ago or so this question was brought up and I explained the situation to everyone and the concensus seemed to be "ehhh :rolleyes:".

WARNING: BIASED OPINION!

No.

We're all separate accounts, as have been so (in the case of GW and myself since WC 27. while Prux came in in WC37 or WC38) for many Cups and no one has complained about it (as far as i know of). I think about a year ago or so this question was brought up and I explained the situation to everyone and the concensus seemed to be "ehhh :rolleyes:". IF it does bother you, then TG me about it.

It's a manner of protocol. Why should I TG you about it? It's not a personal issue with you. It's following precedent - same IP/computer, different people, still one master+one puppet. Nothing to do with all being separate accounts.

I can't speak to the IP issues involved, but all three do appear to be separate players based on their respective writing styles.

Obviously, precedent in the case of Andossa Se Mitrin Vega and Dorian and Sonya is what it is, but if the issue's already been discussed and decided upon, I don't see the need to dredge it back up.

It's a manner of protocol. Why should I TG you about it? It's not a personal issue with you. It's following precedent - same IP/computer, different people, still one master+one puppet. Nothing to do with all being separate accounts.

I guess I misinterpreted what you were saying. :$
If it is a problem, then I'll claim Prux as a puppet of Qazox.

HOWEVER... Green wombat has been around just as long as Qazox has (as stated before) and I belive he shouldn't be subject to the precedent.

If the precedent is applied to GW, then we've broken every WC rule since World Cup 27, (over 3 RL years ago!) as technically we had my main nation (Qazox) and a "puppet" (Green wombat) compete in the same BoF; therefore making both of us ineligible for that tourney. Using that logic, then our results from qualifying in WC27 were skewed, and should be null and void, and WC 27 (and possibly every WC qualifers/World Cup we've collectively competed in since then) should be resimmed with Qazox and GW having 0.00 KPB points starting at the WC27 qualifers.

Now you're just being really, really, silly.

Now you're just being really, really, silly.

Just par for the course around here.

Adverts inside posts?

In the first post of every page in every thread in every forum?

I'm thinking some sort of line's just been crossed...

Would anyone more artistically-inclined than me be willing to have a red hot go at generating an image of Homo Neanderthalis (aka Neanderthal Man) wearing the Holy Empire's football kit? Or furs in the Holy Empire's colours?

No prizes beyond my gratitude and a prominent place in my next Imperial RP.

Adverts inside posts?

In the first post of every page in every thread in every forum?

I'm thinking some sort of line's just been crossed...

That line was crossed when major newspapers started printing adverts on their front pages...

Oh, Kelssek and Yafor II, fancy taking part in pre- or post-qualifying friendlies?

Adverts inside posts?

In the first post of every page in every thread in every forum?

I'm thinking some sort of line's just been crossed...

Wow, that just about breaks every single attempt at formatting the OP of a thread.

Jolt = Bastards.

Would anyone more artistically-inclined than me be willing to have a red hot go at generating an image of Homo Neanderthalis (aka Neanderthal Man) wearing the Holy Empire's football kit? Or furs in the Holy Empire's colours?

No prizes beyond my gratitude and a prominent place in my next Imperial RP.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm1/Starblayde/ediraflogo.jpg

ediraf to the rescue of The Holy Empire

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm1/Starblayde/AIFWC45.jpg

After sitting out the last 16 tournaments I think the Hyppos may well be just a wee bit rusty . . .

A Dreamed Realm double whammy and a trip to Sarzonia should help blow some of the cobwebs away pre-qualification but we’ve got a few free days left. And with a lot of the old rivals having exited stage left the offer is open to anyone who fancies a bit of a kickabout.

Mid-Qualifiers
Two Free Spaces

Post Qualifiers
Two Free Spaces

After sitting out the last 16 tournaments I think the Hyppos may well be just a wee bit rusty . . .

A Dreamed Realm double whammy and a trip to Sarzonia should help blow some of the cobwebs away pre-qualification but we’ve got a few free days left. And with a lot of the old rivals having exited stage left the offer is open to anyone who fancies a bit of a kickabout.

Mid-Qualifiers
Two Free Spaces

Post Qualifiers
Two Free Spaces
Sure, we'll play you in the Mid-Qualifier period. Do you want to come here for the game, or not?

_____________________________________________________

Myedvedeya: Mid-qualifiers, this time at our home ground?

Oh, and would The Holy Empire be interested in a friendly at some point, too? Bears vs Neandertalers should be interesting... ;)

Well we’ve already had matches against horses, giant zucchinis, women and whatever the hell they were in Oaker, so why not Ursines too?

And (despite the tiny bit threatening italicisation!) we’d be delighted to make the trip to Bears Armed.

Mid-Qualifiers
One Free Spaces

Post Qualifiers
Two Free Spaces

BA's friendlies, so far _


Pre-qualifiers
Peisandros (away)
Jeru FC (away)
The Holy Empire (away)

Mid-qualifiers
Arroza (home)
Hypocria (home)
Myedvedeya (home)

Post-qualifiers
Nethertopia (home)
Dancougar (home)
one free slot

REMOVING THOSE IRRITATING ADS IN INTERNET EXPLORER

Those of you with Firefox should be able to block the new ads in the first post of each page fairly easily.

Those of you stuck with Internet Explorer...

Download IE7pro (took me less than 2 minutes with a broadband connection) at: http://www.ie7pro.com/.

Once downloaded, right-click on the IE7pro icon in the bottom right-hand corner of your screen, select 'preferences' and manually turn on the adblocker option.

This will block all NS ads except those in the banner at the very top (which aren't really the issue here), and will also remove most of the frame around the advert which causes formatting problems in the relevant posts. Leaving a couple of spaces at the top of a thread's first post should stop all formatting problems.

Hope that helps.

For the record, it appears that Jolt is assuming you're using the default setting of 15 posts per page. So, it screws with post 1, 16, 31, 46, etc.

Until this asinine policy is reversed, I will no longer be using any posts in that sequence for meaningful content; if that means a double-post is necessary, so be it.

Oh, Kelssek and Yafor II, fancy taking part in pre- or post-qualifying friendlies?

Accepted, as a post-qualifying friendly. :)

Hypocria - you want a mid-qualifying friendly for the sake of old times?

if that means a double-post is necessary, so be it.

Spammer.

Wow, that just about breaks every single attempt at formatting the OP of a thread.

Jolt = Bastards.

It broke my sig!!!

DAMN YOU, JOLT!!!

It did?

Bastards.

It did?

Bastards.

It's OK, I'm going to download Adblocker Plus and Kick Jolt's Ass (TM)!

Muhaha! Victory shall be yours!

Muhaha! Victory shall be yours!

It is done. Warg.

It's OK, I'm going to download Adblocker Plus and Kick Jolt's Ass (TM)!

Oh, if only that were sufficient. Alas, the boxes containing the ads don't go anywhere.

Oh, if only that were sufficient. Alas, the boxes containing the ads don't go anywhere.
I can live with that.

Just about...

Ads inside posts? What's next? Ads in peoples siggies?

Ads inside posts? What's next? Ads in peoples siggies?

Noooooooooo! Don't give them ideas! The telescreens are everywhere!!!

NationStates has become an Orwellian nightmare!!!

(OK, more so than before. Shush.)

Mid-qualifiers
Arroza (home?)

Yes, at Bears Armed.

So, I think I've got confirmed...

Pre:
Secristan

Mid:
@ Bears Armed
@ Vephrall

Bears Armed- Certainly, we will be exited for another match

Friendly Schedule.

Pre
Home vs Bears Armed. (National Sports Arena, Olympia)
vs Koseli Cumhuriyetler. (unconfirmed)

Mid
Home vs Jeruselem. (National Sports Arena, Olympia)
Away at Adi'han.

Post
Away at Krytenia.


Anyone fancy a trip to Peisandros post qualifying??

we'll make the trip.

Noooooooooo! Don't give them ideas! The telescreens are everywhere!!!

NationStates has become an Orwellian nightmare!!!

(OK, more so than before. Shush.)

Bah, by the time 2010 comes rolling around, there'll be ads at every click.

*clicks reply (http://a1708.g.akamai.net/7/1708/5303/456456/image.pch.com/opsimages/8b8ff8df-e1a5-4af4-9eef-34c92d789407/aq/09/09-23/5k-new-header_03.gif)*

I would expect to be running into double posts. Quite frankly, if I ever have a post in the top of a thread, I am going to double post, and change my first post of page post to one word, because if a product I do not endorse is being used within a post of mine or if I am not going to get the potential revenue from a click that may occur inside my post, then this what I am going to do.

You see, this is a matter of principle. And I do seriously wonder about the legality.

P.S. I do use AdBlock. I don't even see these ads. I just do not appreciate that posts of mine contain an advertising message of a product I may not like or perhaps (even though I doubt this because most jolt ads are retarded), for a competitor of the business organization I work for.