NationStates Jolt Archive

Interrelated questions for both bids, which I didn't feel like posting twice in separate threads:

What ranks (pre-cup? post-qualifiers? Some combination of the two) will be used for finals scorination?

This one is a little harder to phrase, so let me know if it doesn't make sense:

The hosts, I'm assuming, will be placed into finals groups at random. If they are not ranked in the top pot, will they "displace" a first-seed team? Example: Starblaydia and Krytenia replaced the first seeds in their groups (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13618361&postcount=19), while Kura-Pelland and Vephrall "still [held] bottom-seed placings" (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13267235&postcount=443). Would you emulate either of those patterns? If not, how would you be seeded?

Thanks and good luck!

answered in the bid thread!

Interrelated questions for both bids, which I didn't feel like posting twice in separate threads:

What ranks (pre-cup? post-qualifiers? Some combination of the two) will be used for finals scorination?

This one is a little harder to phrase, so let me know if it doesn't make sense:

The hosts, I'm assuming, will be placed into finals groups at random. If they are not ranked in the top pot, will they "displace" a first-seed team? Example: Starblaydia and Krytenia replaced the first seeds in their groups (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13618361&postcount=19), while Kura-Pelland and Vephrall "still [held] bottom-seed placings" (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13267235&postcount=443). Would you emulate either of those patterns? If not, how would you be seeded?

Thanks and good luck!

The answers:

Post-qualifiers ranks will be used in the WC groups draw.

The hosts will be considered as first seeds in the draw.

Okay, so it's looking like we have two proposals to vote on. If I've understood them correctly, they appear to be mutually exclusive (i.e. there would be no point in the "shadow" offices existing if an emergency election were held per section 1 of Arch's proposal). I'd just like to confirm that I am right about this before I put this up to a vote, as the distinction would affect the vote format.

There's too much unnecessary bureaucracy in Baz's proposal, imo. I'm opposed to it and would favour Arch's alternative.

heh - to be honest my proposal is an alternative to Arch's :p

Erm... for the benefit of those who have ADD, could the presenters of the aforementioned proposals restate their proposal in a clean manner?

I think I've seen at least 5 proposals, counter-proposals, amendments, adjournments, and/or gibberish. It would be nice for the benefit of those voting (or those very much interested in what is being voted) to understand precisely for what they are voting.

I have TGed all BoF participants, inviting them to begin the mayhem at the lovely new BoF28 Thread.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=556941

*Snip*

*Snip*

Thanks you two, not that it matters now as I am out of both, but for following ones I will have some idea.

The Macabees, yes it does matter because if you mention something from another tournament that hasn't happened in the time line yet then that is a bit out of whack.

EDIT: Oh wait no I am not how did that happen. *remember never assume anything* But I am playing the number two seed so maybe after the next game it will become true.

The Macabees, yes it does matter because if you mention something from another tournament that hasn't happened in the time line yet then that is a bit out of whack.

A wise man once told me that you can RP the tournaments as occuring before/after/or at the same time as however you saw fit. From the beginning we RP'ed them both at the same time.

Good luck on the golf course to your team tomorrow. ;)

I have TGed all BoF participants, inviting them to begin the mayhem at the lovely new BoF28 Thread.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=556941

Just for clarification, and because i don't want to read through 301 pages, when will the matchups for the BoF be announced, and when will the first game take place?

There's too much unnecessary bureaucracy in Baz's proposal, imo. I'm opposed to it and would favour Arch's alternative.

Actually one other thing...

I'm not sure what are you going on about, the only beauracracy in this is that it requires someone to announce a back-up person to fulfil roles if the elected officials are unable to perform their duty.

An allows someone to call for new presidential elections with a 2/3rds majority from the EWCC. Which IMO is something we probably should have anyway and not something strictrly restricted to Pres and VP absenses

Just for clarification, and because i don't want to read through 301 pages, when will the matchups for the BoF be announced, and when will the first game take place?

Everything BoF related will appear in the thread that Dae linked to, as to timing, I'm unsure and not really paying attention to BoF happenings, but it's probably better to ask in that thread (ensuring you use OOC tags)

Here are the proposals as I understand they stand:


A formal proposal regarding acting presidencies:

1) In the event of the unavailability, whether temporary or permanent, of both the WCC president and the WCC vice-president, the EWCC may elect an acting WCC president from among its own membership to serve in that capacity until either the president or vice-president return (by announcing their return in the WC discussion thread), or the term of office of the latter two offices reaches its end, whichever comes first.

2) Any member of the EWCC may call for a vote and nominate another member of the EWCC as acting president; self-nominations are not permitted. The 'floor' shall remain open for further nominations for 24 hours after the initial call for a vote. Voting shall close 48 hours after floor nominations close. Votes may be tabulated by any EWCC member not standing for election, as nominated by the person first calling the vote.

3) A simple plurality of the vote is enough to win the election. In the event of a tie, the votes of the participating nation that hosted the earliest world cup shall be counted twice.


Establish the offices of Shadow President and Shadow Vice President
These offices respectively shall be filled by a nominated person selected by their respective elected officials, at the beginning of their office or at any juncture that a shadow official may not be able fulfil their role.
Only come into play when both elected officials are unable to fulfil their role.
During time in play Shadow officials can only start votes necessary for the continued smooth running of the WC(e.g. Host voting and Presidential elections) and may not attempt to introduce new legislation.
Have no special abilities when out of play
Shadow President has Seniority over Shadow Vice President
Any EWWC member can attempt to oust a President or Vice President. The votes are to be collected by a nominated EWWC member and requires a super majority of 2/3rds to successfully oust an elected official. If an official is ousted new WCC Presidential elections are to be held and are to be ran by a nominated EWWC member.

A wise man once told me that you can RP the tournaments as occuring before/after/or at the same time as however you saw fit. From the beginning we RP'ed them both at the same time.

Good luck on the golf course to your team tomorrow. ;)

Well I wasn't to sure and I was to hung over from FA Cup night so I didn't have the strength to bother about continuing.

LOL you fuckin bastard (and I mean that in the Australian way) a bit of time at the golf course sounds like a good warm down session. Good RP by the way I enjoyed it immensely even if you did call the U21 team the junior side of the senior side that went to the OXEN Cup, and got confused when claiming that Bloumany is in the West Pacific. I have always enjoyed your RP's even when you were poking fun at me, congratulations on the win hope you go on for success in the final.

Actually one other thing...

I'm not sure what are you going on about, the only beauracracy in this is that it requires someone to announce a back-up person to fulfil roles if the elected officials are unable to perform their duty.

An allows someone to call for new presidential elections with a 2/3rds majority from the EWCC. Which IMO is something we probably should have anyway and not something strictrly restricted to Pres and VP absenses

Two new unnecessary extra positions = bureaucracy.

Here are the proposals as I understand they stand:

Thanks for posting both, Baz, and yes - in answer to Veph - I believe them to be mutually exclusive.

For IC reasons (and I realise I'm blurring boundaries here), I'd prefer my proposal to be officially submitted by the Holy Empire.

Thanks for posting both, Baz, and yes - in answer to Veph - I believe them to be mutually exclusive.


*agree* They're mutually exclusive

Warning - Read at you Own Risk, Bos is posting democratic-sounding thoughts

In an unprecedented show of me and a want of democracy (for those of you suddenly clutching at your chest and feeling dizzy, dial 999/911/112 for emergency assistance), I'm wondering who gets to vote on the new proposals to give the EWWC members "extra powers" in nominating and appointing a new President/Vice-President.

If all WCC members get to vote for a new Pres (and therefore also the Vice-Pres to an extent), I believe all WCC members should get to vote to agree to let the EWCC nominate and vote for their own bods. If anything, it'd be a show of trust out of ordinary members like myself to say "ok, we think you guys know what you're doing, go ahead and take this power to be used in extraordinary circumstances."

Of course, if that was the plan all along (to give all WCC members a vote), I apologise for any medical bills you may recieve after reading this post, though I will not hold myself responsible for their payment (see disclaimer in bold).

OOC: Sorry of this is overkill but I



?!

Don't just stop there, I won't be able to sleep tonight. :(

I meant to say I have nothing else to do today :D

Plus I was in a writing mood

Warning - Read at you Own Risk, Bos is posting democratic-sounding thoughts

<snip>

I don't know what our esteemed president is planning, but I'll confirm that it's certainly my intention that the entire WCC should get to vote on my proposal granting the EWCC the power to appoint an acting president where we lose both the president and vice-president.

If my proposal is passed, I would prefer that the EWCC's new power come with a mandate from the entire WCC.

My thinking is entirely in line with yours here, Bos.

Lurking at the back of my mind is the vague idea that it might encourage nations to bid to host World Cups if they know they get shiny bauble benefits by sitting on the EWCC. You'd probably have to be a fairly odd person to bid for a World Cup on the basis that you get the right to help appoint an acting president when both the sitting posts vanish, but, well, have you looked around this thread recently?

My thinking is entirely in line with yours here, Bos.

Egads!

You'd probably have to be a fairly odd person to bid for a World Cup on the basis that you get the right to help appoint an acting president when both the sitting posts vanish, but, well, have you looked around this thread recently?

Or in my case, in the mirror. If there comes a time when I decide I can be bothered enough to host a BoF, then I'll probably be bothered enough to bid for a WC. Maybe.

Two new unnecessary extra positions = bureaucracy.
Technically true, but having a week-long vote to choose an acting president that may only be needed for a week seems far more cumbersome.

Warning - Read at you Own Risk, Bos is posting democratic-sounding thoughts

In an unprecedented show of me and a want of democracy (for those of you suddenly clutching at your chest and feeling dizzy, dial 999/911/112 for emergency assistance), I'm wondering who gets to vote on the new proposals to give the EWWC members "extra powers" in nominating and appointing a new President/Vice-President.

If all WCC members get to vote for a new Pres (and therefore also the Vice-Pres to an extent), I believe all WCC members should get to vote to agree to let the EWCC nominate and vote for their own bods. If anything, it'd be a show of trust out of ordinary members like myself to say "ok, we think you guys know what you're doing, go ahead and take this power to be used in extraordinary circumstances."

Of course, if that was the plan all along (to give all WCC members a vote), I apologise for any medical bills you may recieve after reading this post, though I will not hold myself responsible for their payment (see disclaimer in bold).
According to Proposal 1093, the full WCC votes on rules changes.

Two new unnecessary extra positions = bureaucracy.

Perhaps but what work does this extra bureaucracy have?

(Vice) President chooses someone
They get asked to take that position
They respond, repeat all previous steps until someone agrees
Announce

It basically adds a bit of work to the President and the Vice President, not really much at that. And then we have someone who can just step in and do stuff rather than mucking around.

RE: Recent Proposals

Since I don't really know what the fuss is all about, though I have read every thing on the last 5 or 6 pages about it, I'm just not going to vote on any of them, thereby keeping my conscience clean, when it blows up in everyone's face, and knowing how things work around here, it will.

RE: Recent Proposals

Since I don't really know what the fuss is all about, though I have read every thing on the last 5 or 6 pages about it, I'm just not going to vote on any of them, thereby keeping my conscience clean, when it blows up in everyone's face, and knowing how things work around here, it will.

Well, when Vephrall recently took a holiday, he was away and unable to perform his duties as President, however Casari left and gave his NS nation to Bostopia who made it an IC puppet (as well as an OOC puppet).

This left us without an acting president, which was basically why Arch's and my proposals came about.

Well, when Vephrall recently took a holiday, he was away and unable to perform his duties as President, however Casari left and gave his NS nation to Bostopia who made it an IC puppet (as well as an OOC puppet).

This left us without an acting president, which was basically why Arch's and my proposals came about.

lol.. i know that.

In my professional opinion (which is better than my personal opinion, not to say that it's professional in any way possible), the proposals seem to highlight one huge gaping problem that can be solved in a more effective manner than what either of the proposals offer.

ORDER OF SUCCESSION

That's what we need. The existing order of suggestion (as Vephrall has noted) is too monarchial, and pretty much ineffective at handling politics now. It wouldn't last long. Bazalonia et al. offer to make a new office: not a bad idea, except it's pretty much useless without a crisis. The new jobs only seem to make a new president that is only president when neither the standing president nor the standing vice president are available to take responsibility over a crisis; pretty ineffective, if you ask me. Why create an office whose purpose is to take over when no one else is around? On the other hand, the Holy Empire et al. suggest holding elections to vote for an interim presidency. Except... who takes the vote? Remember, we're holding a vote to replace the president temporarily, and as New Manhattan, the time required to hold the vote would pretty much negate any usefulness of holding such a vote.

Therefore, I suggest that the best solution would be - instead of creating new offices/holding extraneous votes - establishing a more effective order of succession. Unfortunately, I'm not too familiar with the existing order of succession or even the order of hierarchy in the WCC/EWCC/whatever else there is, so I can't make the proposal myself. But in an effort to make the least costly change to the WCC structure, I would strongly suggest any proposal passed to address this issue consider order of succession. For a matter of principle, here's a possible order of succession for a proposal:

Failing to hold his/her duties as President, the next in line for the Presidency shall be:

(1) Vice President
(2) Third-placed Candidate for President from the most recent election
(3) Most recently elected WC host(s)
(4) Most recently elected CoH host(s)
(5) Most recently elected BoF host(s)
(6) ... etc ...

I mean, politically, we're asking for a crisis if our order of succession extends to only two or three people legitimately (and a whole of other people not so illegitimately, but more so inconveniently). If we were in some medieval age, our dynasty wouldn't last too long.

If anyone else would agree with me, please feel free to add/subtract/multiply/divide parts of this idea for a formally written proposal. Adding offices is unnecessary, and voting for a temporary president is too unwieldy.

The only question for Dae's proposal is how deep is the list of succession?

Are you going to leave it there, what about past (Vice) presidents? What about previous hosts, what about the oldest still active person?

Dae if you post a complete list in the order of succession, then I will happily re-word it so it's a formal proposal.

Though I think we probably should get this vote done fairly soon.

As I stated, I'm not too familiar with the list of hierarchy for the WCC/EWCC/etc; I'm not really the best person to start listing people for the order of succession. I just started a simple list that has a healthy number of different positions that already exist and are open to possible employment as an interim president (of course, this past World Cup would be an exception, wouldn't it?).

I suppose if you had to budge me to post a list:


If the present President fails to hold his/her duties as President, the next in line for the Presidency shall be:

(1) Vice President
(2) Third-placed Candidate for President from the most recent election
(3) Most recently elected WC host(s)
(4) Most recently elected CoH host(s)
(5) Most recently elected BoF host(s)
(6) Last elected President (previous election)
(7) Last elected Vice President (previous election)
(8) Oldest standing WC host (active), age dependent on edition of WC hosted (i.e. WC1 Host is older than WC2 host, etc... hosting on multiple occasions follows the oldest edition hosted)
(9) Most recent WC winner
(10) Oldest Standing WCC member, age dependent on edition of WC joined (latest edition of WC in which a roster was posted).

I'm not sure if there needs to be any more than that. Steps 8-10 are already bordering on desperate.

As I stated, I'm not too familiar with the list of hierarchy for the WCC/EWCC/etc; I'm not really the best person to start listing people for the order of succession. I just started a simple list that has a healthy number of different positions that already exist and are open to possible employment as an interim president (of course, this past World Cup would be an exception, wouldn't it?).

I suppose if you had to budge me to post a list:


If the present President fails to hold his/her duties as President, the next in line for the Presidency shall be:

(1) Vice President
(2) Third-placed Candidate for President from the most recent election
(3) Most recently elected WC host(s)
(4) Most recently elected CoH host(s)
(5) Most recently elected BoF host(s)
(6) Last elected President (previous election)
(7) Last elected Vice President (previous election)
(8) Oldest standing WC host (active), age dependent on edition of WC hosted (i.e. WC1 Host is older than WC2 host, etc... hosting on multiple occasions follows the oldest edition hosted)
(9) Most recent WC winner
(10) Oldest Standing WCC member, age dependent on edition of WC joined (latest edition of WC in which a roster was posted).

I'm not sure if there needs to be any more than that. Steps 8-10 are already bordering on desperate.

So basically, what you are saying is, IF every nation that existed before WORLD CUP 27 is not available, then I would become the WCC President? (i did sign-up before Tynelia, i think)... So i'm like 22nd in line of succession then?

So basically, what you are saying is, IF every nation that existed before WORLD CUP 27 is not available, then I would become the WCC President? (i did sign-up before Tynelia, i think)... So i'm like 22nd in line of succession then?

Ummmmmmm... maybe?

I really don't know. The basic idea is to establish a set guideline for order of succession to avoid two unnecessary things:

(1) Another office;
(2) Another election.

Use what we have already and create rules for passing authority to the next person within the existing system (unless you completely hate the existing system and think that it needs to be changed anyway...). So I suppose if all that you've stated is true, then yeah, you're 22nd in line. Of course, I'd think that by that time, we'd be roasting marshmallows over a radioactive pit together with a sweet evening serenade on Mars.

As both bids are open for sponsorship bids, and to save me posting this twice, Starblaydia's two best-known companies would offer bids to become official sponsors of the 41st World Cup.

ediraf (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/ediraf.html) offer themselves as the official kit provider of the Cup, providing referees kits and making their services available for deals with nations competing in the Cup who have not already selected a kit-maker, via their storefront (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=555065)

Orcinus (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/orcinus.html) are wishing to be the sponsor for both Alcoholic and Non-Alcoholic drinks, the latter being via the Orca-Cola brand.

I think CoH and BoF hosts should only be put in charge as a last resort if all EWCC members are unavailable. Here’s yet another proposal:

Proposal 1337
Article II, Section 3 of the WCC rules (“If the President is unable to fulfill his/her duties, then the Vice-President will take over. If there is no Vice-President, or the Vice-President is also unavailable, the EWCC must elect someone to act as President”) shall be replaced with the following:

§3. If the President is unable to fulfill his/her duties, then the interim President shall be the first available person of: the Vice-President, the candidates in the most recent presidential election (sorted by highest vote total), the members of the EWCC (sorted by earliest WC hosted), and the hosts of the Baptism of Fire tournament and Cup of Harmony (sorted by earliest tournament hosted). If two or more eligible successors are equal in any of these criteria, then they shall be sorted in alphabetical order.

The current line of succession would thus be Vephrall, Casari, Novapsolu, Ariddia, Alasdair I Frosticus, Spaam, Gweridijongya (One Red Dot), Kura-Pelland (Kaze Progressa), Rejistania, Vilita, Starblaydia, Lethislavania, Liverpool England, Krytenia, Commerce Heights, Septentrionia (Oliverry), Fmjphoenix, The Islands of Qutar, Geisenfried, Milchama, Az-cz, Quakmybush, Bazalonia, Cafundéu, Elves Security Forces, Crystilakere, Bettia, Errinundera, Sel Appa, Zwangzug, Daehanjeiguk. If all thirty-one of them are unavailable, then perhaps we don’t need a president. :p

I normally don't come on this early/late/whenever it is, but I'd like to say that I fully support New Manh... err, Comm... err, UCS! - I support the new proposal, mostly because we do have clear idea about who is in this order of succession, and it's much simpler than what I stated it to be. I'd wish that we got over the 1337ness of our proposal numbers though.

Much simpler and clearer than my proposal, and the resort to alphabetical order (which gets around my problem with Han's proposal that the third-placed candidates in presidential elections might well be tied) is no more arbitrary than my resorting to seniority through order of World Cup hosting; the latter idea's embedded in CH's proposal anyway.

I cheerfully withdraw my own proposal and support CH's amendment of Article II, Section 3.


I think CoH and BoF hosts should only be put in charge as a last resort if all EWCC members are unavailable. Here’s yet another proposal:

Proposal 1337
Article II, Section 3 of the WCC rules (“If the President is unable to fulfill his/her duties, then the Vice-President will take over. If there is no Vice-President, or the Vice-President is also unavailable, the EWCC must elect someone to act as President”) shall be replaced with the following:

§3. If the President is unable to fulfill his/her duties, then the interim President shall be the first available person of: the Vice-President, the candidates in the most recent presidential election (sorted by highest vote total), the members of the EWCC (sorted by earliest WC hosted), and the hosts of the Baptism of Fire tournament and Cup of Harmony (sorted by earliest tournament hosted). If two or more eligible successors are equal in any of these criteria, then they shall be sorted in alphabetical order.

The current line of succession would thus be Vephrall, Casari, Novapsolu, Ariddia, Alasdair I Frosticus, Spaam, Gweridijongya (One Red Dot), Kura-Pelland (Kaze Progressa), Rejistania, Vilita, Starblaydia, Lethislavania, Liverpool England, Krytenia, Commerce Heights, Septentrionia (Oliverry), Fmjphoenix, The Islands of Qutar, Geisenfried, Milchama, Az-cz, Quakmybush, Bazalonia, Cafundéu, Elves Security Forces, Crystilakere, Bettia, Errinundera, Sel Appa, Zwangzug, Daehanjeiguk. If all thirty-one of them are unavailable, then perhaps we don’t need a president. :p

Not even I have a problem with the alphabetical order. :p

It seems like the proposal almost makes the vice-presidency as an office superfluous. Although the vice president collects votes when the president is running, they don't seem to have any powers beyond taking over when the president is unavailable. This proposal looks like it would make that redundant, as they'd already be the candidate in the most recent presidential election sorted by highest vote total.

OFFICIAL PRESIDENTIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

Apologies for the delay - I was finally able to move into my apartment last night, but at the cost of once again being temporarily cut off from the net. That and not having any furniture. Though I slept surprisingly well on the floor last night.

Um, where was I? Oh yes, the proposals.

As both Arch/AIF and Han have officially endorsed CH's proposal, there seems to be no point in voting on their originals. So that makes it CH's proposal versus Baz's. Again, they appear to be mutually exclusive, so that's how the voting shall be performed.

Shall the WCC rules regarding presidential succession be modified?
Eligible to vote: WCC (all former WC hosts plus all who have submitted rosters for both WCs 39 and 40)

Yes, per Proposal 1215 by Bazalonia
Yes, per Proposal 1337 by...the player known as CH for simplicity's sake
No


1. Establish the offices of Shadow President and Shadow Vice President
1. These offices respectively shall be filled by a nominated person selected by their respective elected officials, at the beginning of their office or at any juncture that a shadow official may not be able fulfil their role.
2. Only come into play when both elected officials are unable to fulfil their role.
3. During time in play Shadow officials can only start votes necessary for the continued smooth running of the WC(e.g. Host voting and Presidential elections) and may not attempt to introduce new legislation.
4. Have no special abilities when out of play
5. Shadow President has Seniority over Shadow Vice President
2. Any EWCC member can attempt to oust a President or Vice President. The votes are to be collected by a nominated EWCC member and requires a super majority of 2/3rds to successfully oust an elected official. If an official is ousted new WCC Presidential elections are to be held and are to be ran by a nominated EWCC member.

Article II, Section 3 of the WCC rules (“If the President is unable to fulfill his/her duties, then the Vice-President will take over. If there is no Vice-President, or the Vice-President is also unavailable, the EWCC must elect someone to act as President”) shall be replaced with the following:

§3. If the President is unable to fulfill his/her duties, then the interim President shall be the first available person of: the Vice-President, the candidates in the most recent presidential election (sorted by highest vote total), the members of the EWCC (sorted by earliest WC hosted), and the hosts of the Baptism of Fire tournament and Cup of Harmony (sorted by earliest tournament hosted). If two or more eligible successors are equal in any of these criteria, then they shall be sorted in alphabetical order.

Who shall host World Cup 41?
Eligible to vote: WCC (all former WC hosts plus all who have submitted rosters for both WCs 39 and 40) EXCEPT those who are candidates

Ad'ihan and Daehanjeiguk (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=556880)
Cafundéu and Septentrionia (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=556725)
None of the above (re-open the bidding process)


Please send all votes via some private method (TG or IRC, most likely) to Vephrall. Voting will end Tuesday 27 May at 2200 UTC (6pm Eastern).

i officially vote for Adihan and Daehanjeiguk

i officially vote for Adihan and Daehanjeiguk

Sir, you are a tit.

Please note Please send all votes via some private method (TG or IRC, most likely) to Vephrall. Voting will end Tuesday 27 May at 2200 UTC (6pm Eastern).

Emphasis on private added by myself.

EDIT: Alversia, for being unfortunate to respond while I was still writing this post, and me therefore noticing after, you are also a tit (even though you're not a WCC member yet anyway).

sorry :(

Ah well, no harm done

:headbang:

Sir, you are a tit.

Please note

Emphasis on private added by myself.

EDIT: Alversia, for being unfortunate to respond while I was still writing this post, and me therefore noticing after, you are also a tit (even though you're not a WCC member yet anyway).

Fine, and what the hell do you mean by a tit.

Fine, and what the hell do you mean by a tit.

Wiki 'breast'.

A footnote for those who chose IRC as their preferred method: Due to continuing network inadequacies, until you hear otherwise from me, make it a telegram instead. This includes those who already sent me votes over that particular medium. Thanks.

Wiki 'breast'.

Maybe not. Here in the UK we have many birds of the tit family paridae. I for one have always been fond of the blue tit (cyanistes caeruleus), though a wiki search for 'tit bird' will reveal the vast range of these birds. I believe that Americans refer to them as 'chickadees' or 'titmice'.

Perhaps Bostopia meant to compare Taeshan to the yellow-browed tit of Bhutan?

This is Bos who we're talking about.

Is it still possible for me to sign up for the World Cup? If so, where do I do it? Here?

Is it still possible for me to sign up for the World Cup? If so, where do I do it? Here?

Here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=554057) is where you sign up for it, however as a new nation to the WC you will miss the pre-tournament Baptism of Fire (it's already started, unless the host, Daehanjeiguk, lets you in) which allows new nations to compete for a trophy before they try to qualify for their first World Cup.

So you can either sign up now for WC41, or wait a few months and sign up for World Cup 42 and be in its Baptism of Fire.

I'll be out until Monday, due to a short travel to take advantage of a holiday.

Awww man, does that mean I have to visit your private office in stall 3B again?

I've paid for the plane ticket back home!!!


BTW, BoF Group Draws have been posted. See if you're luckY!!!

So when is WC XLI gonna start, most likely in early June?

Folks, I have good news and bad news.

GOOD NEWS! All standard communications protocols on my end are hereby restored. I should now experience no further outages until sometime in August.

BAD NEWS! Unfortunately, I believe my telegram box may have overflowed during my absence, so anyone who has sent me a vote in the last 20 hours or so may need to send it again.

I have officially recorded votes from the following:

Bostopia
Dancougar
Jeruselem
Acapais
Daehanjeiguk
Qazox
Prux
Candelaria And Marquez
Taeshan
Elves Security Forces
Starblaydia
Alasdair I Frosticus
Milchama
Unified Capitalizt States (yes, you are allowed to vote on the presidential succession proposals, by the way)
Bazalonia (and you as well)


If you are not on the list above, please resubmit your vote. I promise this is the last time we'll have to do this...at least for now. :p

Also, a reminder: you can either vote for Baz's proposal or for CH's (or against both). You cannot vote for both.

Good thing NS has 20 telegram limit and not the old 10 limit these days. :D

All this has reminded me, during Veph's absence I collected votes for reducing the hosting delay between cups.

I have received 10 votes

Aye: 7
Nay: 3

The Delay has been shortened you can now host a Cup the 2nd World Cup after your previous one.

Concerning some administrative stuff.

* The Indonesian States (a WC37/BoF participant) is disqualified from the BoF.

* Barheim is open as an option to replace The Indonesian States, but as his account is linked to Steel Butterfly, it has been noted that Barheim is technically a puppet of Steel Butterfly (since they are probably using the same computer). I'm personally fine with admitting Barheim as a new contestant and as a separate entity; but I'm not certain what (besides Starblaydia's recent remarks in the Signup thread) is the precedent. If Barheim is admitted as a puppet of Steel Butterfly, it would technically render Barheim ineligible for the WC tournament (since Steel Butterfly is a first-time participant in the WC) at large.

Since this issue deals with WCC regulations, I'm polling the WCC community for guidance, suggestions, and perhaps an official policy on this situation.

Until I get more news, the BoF is delayed until we fill the 20th spot.

Puppets of people are only allowed if they have already competed in a main tournament before.

That is, a main nation and their puppet are not allowed to be in the same BoF together.

I've asked a mod to see if I can confirm that Barheim is indeed Steel Butterfly's puppet and if so then by rules Barheim can't compete this cup (and by extension this BoF) but can next.

Puppets of people are only allowed if they have already competed in a main tournament before.

That is, a main nation and their puppet are not allowed to be in the same BoF together.

I've asked a mod to see if I can confirm that Barheim is indeed Steel Butterfly's puppet and if so then by rules Barheim can't compete this cup (and by extension this BoF) but can next.

Well, this is the problem here:

Barheim is my brother, by the way. I'm sure he'd be happy with that result.

EDIT: I'm not sure how this falls under your puppet laws though, since technically you have no real way of knowing if Barheim is my brother or just a puppet of my own.

We don't usually use the same computers, but we certainly do and can. (Neither is in the WA.) So apparently that means Barheim is out until WC42 when I can have a "puppet."

Which still leaves us with the problem of the 20th participant in the BoF. Didn't someone else apply but get turned down because they'd be one too many?

For all NS intents and purposes, Barheim and Steel Butterfly are puppets. We (the moderation staff) have no way to distinguish the two.

For all NS intents and purposes, Barheim and Steel Butterfly are puppets. We (the moderation staff) have no way to distinguish the two.

I've really already admitted to this. If you ask the moderation staff, there are 3 main computers (IP addresses) that both my brother and I check our nations from, including the odd 4th from time to time.

I brought it up because I wasn't sure if you guys went by NS rules or not. Apparently you do, and Barheim can't participate until next cup. Since I'm back living with the parents for the summer I got to talk to him about it. Suffice to say I'm a bit more devoted to NS than he is, lol, and really we get the rules. No biggie. :)

Since we've come to a conclusion, I will be adding Naggetski as the 20th BoF participant.

Thanks to all for their time and their trouble.

Yes, thank you SB. There was always a chance something might have changed. So I thought it wise just to double check.

At least this way all doubt is removed.

Out of curiousity, has anyone else ever lost 2 finals in 3 real life calendar days before? (Di Bradini 5 & Oxen Cup 6) This has to be close to some kind of record! If so, it can take some of the sting out of the fact that we went 0-2 in them!

Maybe Jeruselem way back in the day when we had a Women's World Cup and World Cup overlap. other than that, not any instance I can think of.

All the more reason to come hungry for WC41 ^_^

Yo Newmanistan, welcome to the losing two finals in a real small period club!
I think I lost the World Cup 32 final to some cheese-eating surrender monkeys and WWC 8 final to Wentland.

I've lost six finals ... yay ... but won 8 finals. Not too bad!

Cool then, seemed like something that could be a little unique, even though it is also a bit dubious!

I was surprised to see Milchama win especially as they was no RPs from him not even a roster, but I suppose that goes to show how much luck there is in these tournaments.

Evidenced by myself finishing 8th not bad for a club side, especially after I failed to win one game during the group stage and was 18th before the finals.

I was surprised to see Milchama win especially as they was no RPs from him not even a roster, but I suppose that goes to show how much luck there is in these tournaments.

Evidenced by myself finishing 8th not bad for a club side, especially after I failed to win one game during the group stage and was 18th before the finals.

I would imagine Milchama's success is based on their rank, rather than luck and RPing.

As for myself, 20ish in the world and 9th seed going in to the knockouts with some fairly solid RPing - not the greatest but then again better than some - finishing 9th overall seems about right to me.

Cool then, seemed like something that could be a little unique, even though it is also a bit dubious!

Hmmm... well, you have a domestic league, now. I suppose you could always get those teams into the TakilQuip Champion's Cup, go the final, and lose that. But at that point, one starts to wonder if Margaret is just taunting you for some unknown reason.

I was surprised to see Milchama win especially as they was no RPs from him not even a roster.

That kinda urks me. Especially since I RPed after every single game, sometimes multiple times, and didn't win one game except my last. If I ever host the World Cup there will be more emphasis put on participation (the NS equivilent of "playing hard") and a less on previous rankings.

That kinda urks me. Especially since I RPed after every single game, sometimes multiple times, and didn't win one game except my last. If I ever host the World Cup there will be more emphasis put on participation (the NS equivilent of "playing hard") and a less on previous rankings.


The argument against that is that some prefer a World Cup winner to be a team that has been in the Cup for some time, so nations with higher rankings are going to have an advantage for the sake of spectacular debuts. In the end, what role-playing does do is making it easier for a team to rise through the ranks faster ... I think.

That kinda urks me. Especially since I RPed after every single game, sometimes multiple times, and didn't win one game except my last. If I ever host the World Cup there will be more emphasis put on participation (the NS equivilent of "playing hard") and a less on previous rankings.

I'd respectfully submit that you may want to spend a little bit more time feeling your way around NSWC culture before reaching that conclusion. The argument over how to balance RPs and rank is an old one, reaching back into the dimmest recesses of world cup history. As my other WC nation, I can remember the first rumblings of that argument coming up as early as WC3, when TNuI introduced scorination by spreadsheet, and we generally have the discussion all over again every time a group of 'new' nations (you're in the position of being an old nation, but new to the NSWC) reaches a certain critical mass.

Over the years, we've had every position represented, from those who thought that RP should be given considerable weight, to those who hardly ever RP'd and thought rank should count more, to everyone inbetween. We need to make sure that everyone's preferences are reasonably balanced.

We also need to be careful that nations who temporarily can't participate in an individual tournament for RL reasons, but who otherwise are strong and consistent RPers, don't get unduly 'punished' for their temporary absence.


One other thing remains more or less constant... those nations calling for more RP emphasis tend to be low- to mid-ranked active RPers. Those nations calling for more emphasis on rank tend to be higher-ranked nations whose RPs are more focused on the finals than the qualifiers. Funny that.

So when is WC XLI gonna start, most likely in early June?


I'm desperately hoping June the 7th at the earliest, myself.

I have absolutely no influence in terms of timing over whomever the hosts turn out to be, but since I'm holiday for my wedding anniversary during the first week in June ("darling, let's go for a romantic twilight stroll by Haghia Sophia tonight" "sorry, darling, but I just have to RP my 3-3 draw with Dancougar first"; doesn't quite work, does it?), so June 7th would suit me nicely.

I'm just selfish, me.

The argument against that is that some prefer a World Cup winner to be a team that has been in the Cup for some time, so nations with higher rankings are going to have an advantage for the sake of spectacular debuts. In the end, what role-playing does do is making it easier for a team to rise through the ranks faster ... I think.

I believe in the system, and pretty much what you said here. Looking at this final, you had one nation who had the great rank, and established himself in the past as one of the world's superpowers. You need teams in a long running competition like this that are established powers like Milchama. But at the same time, I also feel that I overachieved in this competition. I never expected to reach the final in the Oxen Cup. I do not have the great high ranking, but we also saw that part of it as well, where a team without a high ranking can have RP rewarded and reach a final.

Eventually in time, if you keep RPing, you're ranking will go up, which is why I've realistically set long term goals for myself more then short term. I would advise other just starting out nations to, in particular, play in a competition like the Di Bradini Cup or the World Bowl. (have to plug it).

Eventually in time, if you keep RPing, you're ranking will go up, which is why I've realistically set long term goals for myself more then short term. I would advise other just starting out nations to, in particular, play in a competition like the Di Bradini Cup or the World Bowl. (have to plug it).

In theory, and in general, yes, but not necessarily always true.

The Archregimancy was an established top 10 nation and regular WC finalist up until the early to mid 30s, after rising steadily through the ranks with active RP after first entering in WC24. Through a combination of sheer bad luck, poorly timed RL events that occasionally rendered RP impossible, and a neutral +0 style modifier during the period when style modifiers really began to have an impact, the nation's been sliding down the rankings and is now ranked outside the top 30.

But then, if some nations are going to rise through the rankings, then other nations have to fall through the rankings. Or cease to exist, but my monks feel suffering makes them morally superior to heretics.

The argument against that is that some prefer a World Cup winner to be a team that has been in the Cup for some time, so nations with higher rankings are going to have an advantage for the sake of spectacular debuts. In the end, what role-playing does do is making it easier for a team to rise through the ranks faster ... I think.

But I'm not saying that ranking shouldn't carry any weight at all. I'm saying that at best they should be equal. In real life, if Brazil goes out and plays like shit, it doesn't matter that they're often ranked best in the world, they still can lose. In NationStates, that would be akin to a top-tier team not RPing very often or very well, and falling to a relative newcomer. A top-tier team who RP's well and constantly should be near impossible to defeat, but a top-tier team with little more than a roster shouldn't be near impossible to defeat by a newcomer as well. RP's take participation. Sports RP's should be no different. You shouldn't be able to ride into the sunset on past participation either. In other RP's, it doesn't matter how many stories I've written, if my current ones suck, people aren't going to just give me the benefit of the doubt because I've written well in the past. You need to stay current and active in the RP community. Shouldn't sports RPing be the same?

I'd respectfully submit that you may want to spend a little bit more time feeling your way around NSWC culture before reaching that conclusion.

Perhaps the NSWC is different, but to be honest I'm not new to the sports RPing community, just the soccer and hockey versions. I actually ran the first NS Baseball league for its entire lifespan, and it certainly rewarded those who were active, along side those who were regulars. I don't see how any other way can be more fair than a relative equality between the two factors. Putting more emphasis on rank than participation makes moving through the ranks far more difficult than it should be.

Over the years, we've had every position represented, from those who thought that RP should be given considerable weight, to those who hardly ever RP'd and thought rank should count more, to everyone inbetween. We need to make sure that everyone's preferences are reasonably balanced.

Aye, reasonably balanced. A team who RP's three times should rarely lose to a team that never writes, and a team that posts little more than a roster should NEVER win any championship. That's rewarding a lack of dedication and interest. Hardly "sport."

We also need to be careful that nations who temporarily can't participate in an individual tournament for RL reasons, but who otherwise are strong and consistent RPers, don't get unduly 'punished' for their temporary absence.

But at the same time, it is true that in real life certain perennial super-teams fall much shorter than you'd think when it comes down to competition, just to bounce back next time. If a great team has an average finish one cup because he or she is unable to RP, then they should understand that while they shouldn't be "punished" for RL issues, that doesn't take away from the fact that others should be rewarded for their participation and active interest.

In real life, if Brazil goes out and plays like shit, it doesn't matter that they're often ranked best in the world, they still can lose.

I agree, but it also has to do with experience. Brazil losing against Senegal can happen, but IMO it would be a rare occurance (or should I say France?) - in that sense, role-playing allows you to have this chance, but the rank structure allows the scoring to work on probability based on rank, which suggests that the team is just a better team. It's a question of experience and participating in the World Cup over a long period of time. IMO, role-playing should just help in gaining rank.

You shouldn't be able to ride into the sunset on past participation either.

It should be noted that it also is heavily influenced by chance, and issues like this past World Cup's winner being a non-RPer - as far I've seen in the past WCs I've participated in - is not usual, or at least not always true.

In the end, it's not worth arguing. I don't sign up for the WC because I want to win, I sign up because I like to role-play. I don't expect to be recompensed for my writing, other than the enjoyment I get from it. In that sense, this also caters to players that don't like to write as much, but do enjoy the World Cup. In that sense, I guess the WC is not the same as a war on NS or something that depends entirely on role-playing.

But I'm not saying that ranking shouldn't carry any weight at all. I'm saying that at best they should be equal. In real life, if Brazil goes out and plays like shit, it doesn't matter that they're often ranked best in the world, they still can lose. In NationStates, that would be akin to a top-tier team not RPing very often or very well, and falling to a relative newcomer. A top-tier team who RP's well and constantly should be near impossible to defeat, but a top-tier team with little more than a roster shouldn't be near impossible to defeat by a newcomer as well. RP's take participation. Sports RP's should be no different. You shouldn't be able to ride into the sunset on past participation either. In other RP's, it doesn't matter how many stories I've written, if my current ones suck, people aren't going to just give me the benefit of the doubt because I've written well in the past. You need to stay current and active in the RP community. Shouldn't sports RPing be the same?

The top ranking team in the WC could lose to the very bottom ranked team on any given day, regardless of RPs. If you scroll back through some previous WC scores from qualifiers, you'll see there are some shock defeats, equivalent to San Marino beating say Turkey, or in some cases your Brazils, Frances and Italys (not that France or Italy are on the same pegging as Brazil, who frankly can't defend - not that it matters) of this world.

Staying current is another thing entirely, and I'm not sure what you mean by it, but either way, I think you'll quickly learn RP'ing is a contenscious matter. In the first WCs, scores were done using dice. RP'ing as I see it is a bonus added onto our rank (and guess what, it is) that hosts could just choose to ignore. Some people don't RP for various reasons, yet many do because it's what they enjoy doing rather than churning them out looking for victories (RP-spamming is rather annoying and a bit, well, false).

Perhaps the NSWC is different, but to be honest I'm not new to the sports RPing community, just the soccer and hockey versions. I actually ran the first NS Baseball league for its entire lifespan, and it certainly rewarded those who were active, along side those who were regulars. I don't see how any other way can be more fair than a relative equality between the two factors. Putting more emphasis on rank than participation makes moving through the ranks far more difficult than it should be.

Ah, see, you rewarded those who were active and those who were regulars. In the NSWC, those who are regulars are rewarded with a higher ranking. Those who are active (by which I assume you mean RP'ed) are rewarded with an RP bonus. This is how it's been from my first endeavours, WC29, and I see absolutely no reason for change. If you come across a non-rping-vet in the quali group draw, then that's bad luck. And luck, with most sports scorinators, plays a major factor for both teams.

Aye, reasonably balanced. A team who RP's three times should rarely lose to a team that never writes, and a team that posts little more than a roster should NEVER win any championship. That's rewarding a lack of dedication and interest. Hardly "sport."

Dedication. What is dedication? As far as I'm concerned, none of the older folk have to sign up to a competition that is dwindling in numbers and finding people willing to host at almost the last minute (this is not passing comment on our current BoF host, Daehanjeiguk, or the submitted bids for WC41, Cafundeu and Septentronie, and Adihan and Daehanjeiguk, who should all be applauded for stepping up to the plate). Without people signing up WC-in, WC-out, the numbers could fall to a level where playing would hardly be worth it.

But at the same time, it is true that in real life certain perennial super-teams fall much shorter than you'd think when it comes down to competition, just to bounce back next time. If a great team has an average finish one cup because he or she is unable to RP, then they should understand that while they shouldn't be "punished" for RL issues, that doesn't take away from the fact that others should be rewarded for their participation and active interest.

If you don't RP (for personal reasons), and your group opponents do, there is a higher chance your lower ranked opponents will find themselves on the winning scoreline. This in turn reduces the number of KPB points the non-RP'ing player recieves, leaving them less chance of moving up the rankings. The flip side is obvious. The RP'ing players, besting their higher-ranked opposition, gain more KPB points, and have a better chance of advancing up the rankings. That is where participation and active interest come into play.

If the issue is mainly people not RP'ing, then the answer is to stick it to them by writing RPs when you play against them, giving you a better chance of winning that particular game. The important thing to remember is that everyone (including the current World #1) will have started unranked in one WC or another, and have built themselves up to that position most likely by RP'ing. Many nations who you find don't currently RP may be experiencing burnout, or writers block. Acting like a tit and suggesting that some people who not only kept the WC going, but brought in some valuable concepts and conventions we now have should be severely disadvantaged for not RP'ing for one reason or another won't win you any allies, thus damaging any potential WC bid. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's how it is, and the RP question is never, ever, going to have a definitive answer everyone agrees on 100%.

Thank you, Bostopia.

Steel Butterfly: The Oxen CUP, which you are complaining about, is not even part of the WCC rankings. It is not a World Cup Committee-sanctioned tournament and has no relation to the WCC rankings. Qazox has his own rankings and his own way of scorinating his own cup. Don't come in here as a newbie to this and be a right tw@ about it when you've no idea how much of this we've had before.

If I ever host the World Cup there will be more emphasis put on participation (the NS equivilent of "playing hard") and a less on previous rankings.

Good luck — you'll never get voted in to host on that platform.

And now that we've gotten that at best marginally useful outburst out of the way...

I'm going to do something that apparently most of my colleagues find abhorrent and say this: welcome to the community, SB.

As has been said, this debate has occurred many, many times here. What I think you'll find is that the situation really isn't as seemingly RP-hostile as it may appear at first glance. Think of this as more of an extremely long-term RP. Over the course of several Cups, you will find that in almost all cases, the teams that end up performing the best do so in very large part because of RPing. With very few exceptions (anyone remember Oaker?), non-RPing nations simply don't end up being the elite.

The simplest way I can put it is: quality (not necessarily heavy) RPing will, on average, cause your team to get better results. And what's more, those better results then get factored into your team's ranking, which then causes you to perform even better, and the cycle continues until (hopefully) one day your team wins the whole shebang. But because the World Cup is a larger (read: more participants) tournament than most other NS sporting events, it is necessarily a somewhat longer process.

And if you want an example of what good RPing can get you, just look at Dancougar. He just started out two or three Cups ago, and in WC40 he made the quarterfinals. Trust me, if you RP it, they (the championships) will come. ;)

EDIT

And I suppose I should also acknowledge that the initial point of contention was not actually the World Cup, but rather the Oxen Cup. Just to clarify, the Oxen Cup is a friendly tournament that is not officially affiliated with the World Cup or the World Cup Committee, and Qazox is free to run it in any way he sees fit. But the points made by SB certainly appear to be valid for WCC-sanctioned tournaments as well.

I was surprised to see Milchama win especially as they was no RPs from him not even a roster, but I suppose that goes to show how much luck there is in these tournaments.

Evidenced by myself finishing 8th not bad for a club side, especially after I failed to win one game during the group stage and was 18th before the finals.

RP only did so much, Blouman Empire. The rankings did more.

The argument against that is that some prefer a World Cup winner to be a team that has been in the Cup for some time, so nations with higher rankings are going to have an advantage for the sake of spectacular debuts. In the end, what role-playing does do is making it easier for a team to rise through the ranks faster ... I think.

If that was true, I WOULD HAVE AT LEAST MADE A SEMIFINAL BY NOW.

Steel Butterfly: The Oxen CUP, which you are complaining about, is not even part of the WCC rankings. It is not a World Cup Committee-sanctioned tournament and has no relation to the WCC rankings. Qazox has his own rankings and his own way of scorinating his own cup. Don't come in here as a newbie to this and be a right tw@ about it when you've no idea how much of this we've had before.

Chill buddy. No one is trying to take anything away from you or hurt you. Just relax. First of all, I wasn't talking about just the Oxen Cup. I used an example from the Oxen Cup to talk about RP's in general. I'm neither hating on the Oxen Cup or Qazox. I'm hating on non-RPers in general. Also, if it keeps coming up that often for you to be such an ass about it, perhaps the point is a bit more valid. Either way, I'm neither heated or upset. I was just trying to incite debate. No reason not to be civil.

Chill buddy. No one is trying to take anything away from you or hurt you. Just relax. First of all, I wasn't talking about just the Oxen Cup. I used an example from the Oxen Cup to talk about RP's in general. I'm neither hating on the Oxen Cup or Qazox. I'm hating on non-RPers in general. Also, if it keeps coming up that often for you to be such an ass about it, perhaps the point is a bit more valid. Either way, I'm neither heated or upset. I was just trying to incite debate.

You don't just join something and immediately try to reform the whole process when you're still new. You have no right to do so. It's come up plenty of times and been shot down ultimately every time. You might want to get more experience and learn more about this topic before pretending to be the guy who will change everything.

I have told you before in my bid thread — in sports RP, people who don't RP or RP "poorly" in your view are quite common. You've got to get used to it.

No reason not to be civil.

Quoth the person who's calling me an "ass".

You don't just join something and immediately try to reform the whole process when you're still new. You have no right to do so. It's come up plenty of times and been shot down ultimately every time. You might want to get more experience and learn more about this topic before pretending to be the guy who will change everything.

I have told you before in my bid thread — in sports RP, people who don't RP or RP "poorly" in your view are quite common. You've got to get used to it.

Quoth the person who's calling me an "ass".

You're right. How dare I...

Seriously, no one new to any thing, let alone the World Cup, should immediately try to change something that's long-standing just because they didn't get their way, which is basically your argument, no?

Anyway, if you do decide to look through this thread, you'll find that this has been brought up a number of times. Randomness is always the most important factor of a WC; style modifiers the least, rank and RP bonus somewhere in the middle.

Last word from me on this.

Seriously, no one new to any thing, let alone the World Cup, should immediately try to change something that's long-standing just because they didn't get their way, which is basically your argument, no?

You don't just join something and immediately try to reform the whole process when you're still new. You have no right to do so.

I fail to see why you two (and there are probably others) have decided to get so defensive about my posts. Obviously, as this is my first cup, I couldn't change anything even if I wanted to. All I did was state an opinion. You disagree. Well great! You're not alone probably.

The Macabees and Bostopia took my posts at face value, and debated them. That was pretty much what they were intended to do. That was the rational response. Why I need to be chastised for being new yet disagreeing even somewhat with the status quo is beyond me.

There's no fight here. As I said, relax.

I fail to see why you two (and there are probably others) have decided to get so defensive about my posts.

Liventia and Liverpool England (and Ad'ihan) are the same person, btw. Incidentally, I'm a bit interested why you come in and immediately begin trying to improve the system - I'm glad you posted your viewpoint, but I, for one, think that perhaps you could have at least participated in one World Cup before talking about how to improve the RP bonus situation?

Just my two cents. I'm going on the record as agreeing with Bostopia (gasp!) on this matter.

Ranks, RP, and randomness - your three R's of NSWC stuff (and probably of other NS sports).

You have to admit - you can't win every one of them, even if you're the team that works harder for it. Sometimes, that other guy just gets lucky. The good ones get up, lick their wounds, and go on to the next one. After all, regardless of how much positive/negative/neutral biases influenced by various factors in the calculation of a result, the result is still random; modifiers only change the probabilities.

That said, people should lighten up. It's just a game.

You’d think with all this debate, that the team that finished second somehow felt wronged. ;)

To Steel Butterfly, and to any other 28th Baptism of Fire contestant reading, I just want to state that I absolutely feel that RP is rewarded. When I signed up for WC40 and the 27th Baptism of Fire, I had probably about a post count of five with no one here having heard of me. You have to realize though, that you are stepping in to a well established community here with a deep history. The Milchama’s of the tournament have paid their dues at some point. I wasn’t there when it happened, but can accept the fact that they did. When it comes time for the main event, the fact that have established themselves as superpowers is what has to be respected. What you should do for now, is go all out in the Baptism of Fire, and enjoy it as much as you can, and establish “rivalries” with teams at a similar level, as we did with Kose and The Turkomans, who we beat in the 27th BoF. Even though my RP’s will say otherwise, I’m rooting for K & TT to find success, and the others from “my class.”

As Vephrall alluded to, the winner of the 26th BoF (Dancougar) made it all the way to the WC quarterfinal. In WC40. A member of “my class” finished as the runner-up in the Cup of Harmony (Rennidan). And despite hearing how difficult it is for a “newbie” to qualify for the World Cup, we lost out on qualifying due to the away goals rule. It can happen. The system works. Relax and enjoy it, but realize this is a marathon and not a sprint to get there.

You’d think with all this debate, that the team that finished second somehow felt wronged. ;)

To Steel Butterfly, and to any other 28th Baptism of Fire contestant reading, I just want to state that I absolutely feel that RP is rewarded. When I signed up for WC40 and the 27th Baptism of Fire, I had probably about a post count of five with no one here having heard of me. You have to realize though, that you are stepping in to a well established community here with a deep history. The Milchama’s of the tournament have paid their dues at some point. I wasn’t there when it happened, but can accept the fact that they did. When it comes time for the main event, the fact that have established themselves as superpowers is what has to be respected. What you should do for now, is go all out in the Baptism of Fire, and enjoy it as much as you can, and establish “rivalries” with teams at a similar level, as we did with Kose and The Turkomans, who we beat in the 27th BoF. Even though my RP’s will say otherwise, I’m rooting for K & TT to find success, and the others from “my class.”

As Vephrall alluded to, the winner of the 26th BoF (Dancougar) made it all the way to the WC quarterfinal. In WC40. A member of “my class” finished as the runner-up in the Cup of Harmony (Rennidan). And despite hearing how difficult it is for a “newbie” to qualify for the World Cup, we lost out on qualifying due to the away goals rule. It can happen. The system works. Relax and enjoy it, but realize this is a marathon and not a sprint to get there.

Thank you for the first sensible post in the WCDT on the whole I've seen in ages.

So who's up for ice cream and bbq?

So who's up for ice cream and bbq?

me

I've been watching and browsing some sports RP for a while, and all I can say is SB, you're being a monumental ass about this.

Either shut up and play, or don't play at all, because to be frank, their system blatantly works and it doesn't need your "improvements" when you haven't so much as tried out the present system yet.

To me it's just you being bored and foolish because it's what you do whenever you get bored, you meddle far too much because you're too used to being the centre of attention, and when you're not winning or if something doesn't go your way, you set out to skew the system in your way and it rubs people up the wrong way almost immediately, especially seasoned stalwarts of the World Cup like LE and Macabees.

Now the World Cup system is a collectively agreed system, don't upset the boat by being an annoying upstart to the competition. Nobody likes the know-it-all in the corner who says everything should be done his way at the detriment of all others.

The system in place balanced RPers and non RPers well, its about as fair as you can get and there is a good chunk of drama to the equations thanks to the RP "bonus".

It's just a bonus because there are a number of people who don't want to spend hours writing out wether their goalkeeper can pick his nose with his gloves on or not, they just want the social aspect and the game-playing aspect. Your dislike for RPers, again, just shows you're trying to meddle and put things your way. That's not what this game is about. It's a wonderful blend of different kinds of "fun" from several subsectors of the NS community who all also like sport.

Now, you might say "chill buddy chill" but from reading your posts it's like you went up to somebody's sainted mother, kicked her in the face, then said "Ah just kidding buddy!" when the son reaches for his shotgun.

Like I said, play it, or go and try forming your own with your system, just because you did the Baseball doesn't mean you have a God-given right to talk about and meddle with anybody else's well honed systems.

Don't run around bashing people's heads into doing things your way all the time. It results in a lot of wasted time and fraying tempers. [To the point I, a non sports RPer who was considering joining in soon, am writing this]

Or to sum up: Play, or Go away. ;)

Wouldn't life be much simpler if everyone ignored the actual scorelines and wrote about goblins instead?

I would imagine Milchama's success is based on their rank, rather than luck and RPing.

As for myself, 20ish in the world and 9th seed going in to the knockouts with some fairly solid RPing - not the greatest but then again better than some - finishing 9th overall seems about right to me.

Ah, I thought that rank had nothing to do with the OXEN cup, oh well, learn something new everday, my comments then go unfounded. But surely luck comes into play at some point doesn't it, and doesn't the RP helps to improve that luck? I know I am still attempting to learn

RP only did so much, Blouman Empire. The rankings did more.

Yeah ok sure, as I said I didn't think the WCC rankings came into effect

You don't just join something and immediately try to reform the whole process when you're still new. You have no right to do so.

In all due respect LE sometimes a fresh set of eyes is better. I do understand the rankings, and that the higher your ranking the more likely you will win the game but I thought should the lower team publish some high quality RPs then that would swing the balance more in their favour.

Blouman, the Oxen Cup uses its own ranks. That's what Star and Qazox mean. The Oxen Cup is in NO WAY linked to the WC ranks.

In all due respect LE sometimes a fresh set of eyes is better. I do understand the rankings, and that the higher your ranking the more likely you will win the game but I thought should the lower team publish some high quality RPs then that would swing the balance more in their favour.

The only official WC sanctioned events are the World Cup, Baptism of Fire and Cup of Harmony. Other cups may use World Cup ranks but tend to use their own rankings instead.

-Every old fogey here was once a newbie. Some of those days were longer ago than others.
-If we'd like the Cup to continue, we should want newbies to stick around and become old, if not grumpy.
-Some of us don't believe in goblins.
-People who have been successful don't have as much of a reason to push for change to the system as people who haven't.
-As a general statement, people new and with little rank accumulated are less likely to be successful than those with more rank accumulated.
-RP bonus should increase, not guarantee, someone's likelihood of success.
-Nations that are unable to RP at all due to ceasing to exist have traditionally received eighty-point penalties within group stages, despite disagreements with this policy by some newer nations. In light of the above n posts, the irony seems rather blatant to me...

Thank you for your time.

Honestly…

I’m neither being a “monumental ass” or a newb who doesn’t know his place. I simply stated my opinion, that RP’s should carry more weight in any sport RP, and defended it. I was then told by a few rational veterans that in World Cup RP my opinion isn’t anything new, that it’s been dealt with before, and that as it stands now the current system is a compromise between rank and RP. That’s fine. If there were many here before me with the same opinion, then I have no need to continue. And no I’m not going to read 300+ paged to find out if my idea was original or not. I posted it, I was told that it wasn’t, case closed. It was simply an argument, not a detailed outline for change and adaptation as some of you have made it out to be. Also, it was not pointed against the Oxen Cup. Poor Qazox is going to hate me if he thinks I’m making this big of a fuss over his personal competition. Put frankly, I’m not.

Liverpool England’s hostile response and Midlonia’s, who if I read the post right isn’t even involved in the World Cup at all, proclamation against me are nothing short of unnecessary. I can’t change anything here. It’s my first cup. I’m not a host, not on the Committee, not a respected veteran soccer RPer, etc. Why some people are so up in arms about me “changing” things or “demanding change” is beyond me. I can’t. I’m not. Relax.

As far as Midlonia’s post goes:

1. Everything can be improved. That’s not to say that I should be the one to do it or even that my improvements are the right ones, but to say something simply “works” and that no one should dare alter it is ignorant.
2. This isn’t Steel Butterfly v. NSWC. There are other RPers out there, other than me, who have been RPing in the World Cup for a very long time. This is not me “changing the rules to suit me” or saying “everything should be done my way at the detriment of others.”
3. You talk about my “dislike for RPers.” I really don’t even know how you got that. I am and RPer. If nothing else my posts here have tried to help out RPers. Why would I dislike myself and then try to get a bigger bonus for those that I dislike?
4. Just because I did the baseball doesn’t mean I have a god given right to anything, but it was used as a reference to show that I did have some experience with this sort of thing and was not just running my mouth off.
5. Again, I’m not bashing anyone’s head in over anything. I don’t have that kind of power. I was offering up an opinion.
6. Your proclamation of “just play” is redundant. I’m signed up. I’m going to play either way.

My posts about a greater RP bonus were an opinion. They were pretty much shot down by both civil ways and other ways as well. I got the message. Your post was unnecessary. Anyhow, I’m sure people are sick of hearing this. The issue was already presented, discussed, and resolved. I’ve been happy with the decision for a while now. I had already dropped it, so I’m sure someone who’s not even involved should have never “picked it up.”

Soccer/Football anyone?

And since I suppose I’m somewhat responsible for this thread getting off-topic, I’ll be the one getting it back on topic. Discussing the World Cup...

1. How soon after the BoF does the WC typically start?
2. How are rankings calculated and updated? I’ve never quite figured it out.

:)

1) varies- depends on the hosts and whether an easy to split up into groups number of teams have signed up
2) usually there are rankings updates a) after the BoF is done and before the WC begins b)after the WC qualifiers are done and c) after the WC proper and CoH both finish. not set in stone but that's the usual rotation.

usually there are rankings updates a) after the BoF is done and before the WC begins b)after the WC qualifiers are done and c) after the WC proper and CoH both finish. not set in stone but that's the usual rotation.

Interesting that they're updated mid-cup. I like the responsiveness.

But that still doesn't tell me how they are calculated. What all is taken into effect? How it is it added/multiplied/divided out?

Interesting that they're updated mid-cup. I like the responsiveness.

But that still doesn't tell me how they are calculated. What all is taken into effect? How it is it added/multiplied/divided out?

This page (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/kpb_ranking_system.html) on NSwiki gives an explanation. In short, it takes into account the last three World Cups (and their qualifying stages), the last three Cups of Harmony (the tournament for RPers who don't quite qualify for the WC proper), and the last two Baptisms of Fire.

And on that topic, the rankings have now been updated to take World Cup 40 and its associated CoH into account:
ods (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Post-WC40 Rankings.ods) | xls (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Post-WC40 Rankings.xls) | pdf (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Post-WC40 Rankings.pdf)

This page (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/kpb_ranking_system.html) on NSwiki gives an explanation. In short, it takes into account the last three World Cups (and their qualifying stages), the last three Cups of Harmony (the tournament for RPers who don't quite qualify for the WC proper), and the last two Baptisms of Fire.

And on that topic, the rankings have now been updated to take World Cup 40 and its associated CoH into account:
ods (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Post-WC40 Rankings.ods) | xls (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Post-WC40 Rankings.xls) | pdf (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Post-WC40 Rankings.pdf)

Interesting.

Now since the BoF is made to give new players such as myself a chance to gain some KPB points, how do BoF KPB points compare to WC KPB points? Are points earned in the BoF less valuable in the WC because they were earned during an easier competition? Or do they carry the same value since the BoF nation who did well still has no previous CoH and WC experience and therefore will not effect the formula much?

really does it matter^ Okay maybe it does, but its just a GamePeaople. Its supposed to be fun. I mean im happy right even though the Purple Knights fall to 44 after there closest attempt at qualifying ever.

really does it matter^ Okay maybe it does, but its just a GamePeaople. Its supposed to be fun. I mean im happy right even though the Purple Knights fall to 44 after there closest attempt at qualifying ever.

Um...I was just wondering how the KPB system works because I like to learn new things? Is there that much harm in asking?

While checking out the rankings, I just happened to notice that the nation of Alversia has KPB points, but yet is also participating in this Baptism of Fire. Shouldn't they not be eligible?

Interesting.

Now since the BoF is made to give new players such as myself a chance to gain some KPB points, how do BoF KPB points compare to WC KPB points? Are points earned in the BoF less valuable in the WC because they were earned during an easier competition? Or do they carry the same value since the BoF nation who did well still has no previous CoH and WC experience and therefore will not effect the formula much?

Indeed they are less valuable:

A perfect ... is worth ... KPB points
(Most recent) (Previous) (Previous)
World Cup 27.429* 13.714* 6.857*
World Cup Qual 12.000 6.000 3.000
Cup of Harmony 4.500 2.250 1.125
Baptism of Fire 3.000 1.500 --

* Includes bonus for qualifying equivalent to an extra win

While checking out the rankings, I just happened to notice that the nation of Alversia has KPB points, but yet is also participating in this Baptism of Fire. Shouldn't they not be eligible?

That is absolutely correct. Alversia was in World Cup 38 qualifying, so therefore should indeed be ineligible for the current BoF.

Just a comment on the rankings, Krytenia is still named Krytenia! :p

Indeed they are less valuable:

A perfect ... is worth ... KPB points
(Most recent) (Previous) (Previous)
World Cup 24.0 12.00 6.000
World Cup Qual 12.0 6.00 3.000
Cup of Harmony 4.5 2.25 1.125
Baptism of Fire 3.0 1.50 --



That is absolutely correct. Alversia was in World Cup 38 qualifying, so therefore should indeed be ineligible for the current BoF.

Thanks a million :)

And uh-oh. Someone better alert Daehan

Having just skimmed through the last three pages...

Some of the hostility exhibited to SB was just a teensy bit over the top, don't you think?

Robust debate serves us well, and while some nations are traditionally more robust in presenting their opinions than others, some of the reaction was arguably unnecessarily confrontational.

As SB himself has pointed out, he's certainly not a newb - there are precious few of us who've been around since the first half of 2003 - and while he might have waded in to discussion feet first, his opinions are far more articularly expressed than some NSWC participants who've been around a lot longer.

There are undoubtedly one or two areas where he's still feeling his way around how we do things, but he'll learn fairly quickly, and as the person with the oldest participating nation remaining in the NSWC (for SB's benefit, that's Alasdair I Frosticus, not the Archregimancy), I for one welcome his contribution. That doesn't mean I'll always agree with him, but it can't hurt us to have another articulate voice in here.

That is absolutely correct. Alversia was in World Cup 38 qualifying, so therefore should indeed be ineligible for the current BoF.

Was I? I don't remember that. Ah well, if someone wants to take my place, I can back out.

WHOOT! I'm 118th in the WORLD!!! :D

HOLY FUDGE!

The BoF is going to be delayed again until further notice. MD1 scores have been rescinded, since one of the participants is no longer participating in the BoF.

And just to be safe, I'm going to personally investigate every single participant thoroughly. So far, I haven't found anyone else having KPB points, but I'd imagine it's going to take a while to figure out whom among our present batch of BoFers are genuine new participants.

Also, expect to see something brand new in the coming days...

sorry for the trouble :(

HOLY FUDGE!

The BoF is going to be delayed again until further notice. MD1 scores have been rescinded, since one of the participants is no longer participating in the BoF.

And just to be safe, I'm going to personally investigate every single participant thoroughly. So far, I haven't found anyone else having KPB points, but I'd imagine it's going to take a while to figure out whom among our present batch of BoFers are genuine new participants.

Also, expect to see something brand new in the coming days...

I have a feeling that is likely to upset a number of people. Why must [b]all[/i] matches be recinded? Why must another delay occur? Could we not act as if Alversia simply dropped out? It's not like they won their first game anyone. Or perhaps we could get someone else to take their place with the stipulation that they're already down a game? Anything to not erase a score...all the RP's...and delay this (and the World Cup) even further!

I know I'm a "puppet," but one of the advantages of having SB upstairs is that you learn of these things rather quickly. I'd certainly be willing to start off with a zero win one loss record. Just a heads up. Probably won't work.

I have a feeling that is likely to upset a number of people.

Close eyes, bow head, run at brick wall anyway. It's a testament to the never-give up, never think things through attitude of Sports RPers - welcome to the club!

Why must [b]all[/i] matches be recinded? Why must another delay occur? Could we not act as if Alversia simply dropped out? It's not like they won their first game anyone. Or perhaps we could get someone else to take their place with the stipulation that they're already down a game? Anything to not erase a score...all the RP's...and delay this (and the World Cup) even further!

With too small a delay between World Cups, the excitement and wonderment value is lost somewhat. With too much of a delay, people get bored and whiny, and nations cease. Timing needs to be... timed, and those who are new tend to be the ones yelling 'OMGOMGOMG I can't wait start it nowwwww! etc.'

Trust me, this is nothing. The wheels of the Forty-First world Cup will not entirely fall off just because someone was accidentally included in the BoF draw and - holy mother of god - a single Matchday had to be erased.

I imagine that Han is wanting to start from scratch because had Alversia not been in to begin with the groups would have been different, and the opening match-ups different, and so different results in the grand scheme of things.

The secret is to take the event such as this and use it for RP - though god knows you've posted enough of the things already in the thread for one draw and one Matchday.

The secret is to take the event such as this and use it for RP - though god knows you've posted enough of the things already in the thread for one draw and one Matchday.

;) I had a win, mind you, not a draw. Unless you're talking about the group draw. To that, I say "bah." Officially.

On that note, Daehan's decision is fine, I was just wondering if other alternatives that saying "oh shit...redo!" be reached.

Interesting.

Now since the BoF is made to give new players such as myself a chance to gain some KPB points, how do BoF KPB points compare to WC KPB points? Are points earned in the BoF less valuable in the WC because they were earned during an easier competition? Or do they carry the same value since the BoF nation who did well still has no previous CoH and WC experience and therefore will not effect the formula much?

From the Wiki:

These are the constants by which all points-per-match are multiplied for each competition before being added together.
World Cup
World Cup proper

* Most recent Cup: x8
* Previous Cup: x4
* Cup before that: x2

Qualifying

* Most recent Cup: x4
* Previous Cup: x2
* Cup before that: x1

Cup of Harmony

* Most recent CoH: x1.5
* Previous CoH: x0.75
* CoH before that: x0.375

Baptism of Fire

* Most recent BoF: x1
* Previous BoF: x0.5

HOLY FUDGE!

The BoF is going to be delayed again until further notice. MD1 scores have been rescinded, since one of the participants is no longer participating in the BoF.

And just to be safe, I'm going to personally investigate every single participant thoroughly. So far, I haven't found anyone else having KPB points, but I'd imagine it's going to take a while to figure out whom among our present batch of BoFers are genuine new participants.

Also, expect to see something brand new in the coming days...

I really should have read this thread before RPing. D'oh!

I'm really sorry for causing all this guys :(
Shoulda read the rankings first

I really should have read this thread before RPing. D'oh!

SAME! Argh. We stand by Alversia... legalize our win!

A few announcements, mostly from a frustrating 10 hour randonnee (okay, really only 3 hours... still it was spent doing back-up checks, and I hate back-up checks):

I rescinded the scores, in anticipation that I would find more players who had previously participated in the BoF (I'm not having any Vilita's in my squad!) or anyone who has accrued any KPB points (ironically, if Alversia waited for one more WC tournament, their KPBs would be at nil, and according to the records, Alversia did not participate in the WC38 BoF - therefore, they would have been eligible for BoF29 if they completely skip this WC, not to encourage such actions). That said, I have conducted a rather thorough investigation and I find no other anomalies; ergo, no real reason to forgo the results officially.

Hence, I rescind the rescindment (except for Frontenax, who will have a rematch against the next available BoF contender - SFRS, as is in the NSWC Sign-ups). Unfortunately for Barheim, I will stand by a moderation ruling, stating that Barheim is an effective puppet of Steel Butterfly (that is, they can't tell the difference between you two); apologies for being strict on rules. Since this is a last minute decision, the matches will be delayed for another 24 hours; Frontenax --- SFRS will be scored at the same time as the other matches, as a "match-up error" or something - make an RP about it!

To all involved/watching, I apologize for these errors; I should have checked for them, but after 5 BoFs without much issue, I had figured that it would be simpler than what circumstance has presented to me. I didn't quite expect such a scramble involving returning players.

As always though, RPs are cumulative - so no RP is wasted, regardless of what happens. My intention though is to make this as fair and equal as possible (that is, equal opportunity to win, not equal chances...).

That said, if we encounter a similar problem midway through the BoF or something to the effect of strange things happening to the people participating, I will use the players involved and find a legal method to remove them instead of erasing results. Hopefully, we won't have any more complications.

well said, sorry again for the trouble. I never RPed in WC39 and I assumed, for some reason, that I had not been registered.

Ah well, I lost anyway :D

well said, sorry again for the trouble. I never RPed in WC39 and I assumed, for some reason, that I had not been registered.

Ah well, I lost anyway :D

Don't worry - rules cause trouble - if I had it my way, I would have just voided WC38 points and forced you to start over again, especially as you only had like 1 or 2 KPB points... Of course, now that I mention, I could ask around if that is alright. Because if so.......

:eek:

Frontenax still wins!
No results rescinded!
EVERYONE'S HAPPY (except the rulesmeister...)!
We get to MD2 tonight!

Of course, the chance that that happens in the next 2 hours isn't likely.

Ah, I thought that rank had nothing to do with the OXEN cup, oh well, learn something new everday, my comments then go unfounded. But surely luck comes into play at some point doesn't it, and doesn't the RP helps to improve that luck? I know I am still attempting to learn...



Yeah ok sure, as I said I didn't think the WCC rankings came into effect

They only played a 25% part.

For the OXEN Cup (approximate %, changes every Cup)
Most recent OXEN CUP:
Rank: 25% of Formula
RP: 50% of Formula
Other things (ie: randomness, margaret, etc.) 25%

You just drawn into a relatively tough group, but you did beat the #2 seed in the 3rd round, cause you RP factor bumped you ahead just enough to win

Blouman, the Oxen Cup uses its own ranks. That's what Star and Qazox mean. The Oxen Cup is in NO WAY linked to the WC ranks.

They aren't linked, but I do use them in the scoring formula.

YAY up to 24th!!!

They only played a 25% part.

For the OXEN Cup (approximate %, changes every Cup)
Most recent OXEN CUP:
Rank: 25% of Formula
RP: 50% of Formula
Other things (ie: randomness, margaret, etc.) 25%

You just drawn into a relatively tough group, but you did beat the #2 seed in the 3rd round, cause you RP factor bumped you ahead just enough to win

Ah ok Thanks, yeah I knew I was in for a tough battle in the group stage considering some of the people I was up against put more effort and a higher quantity of RPs then I usually do. But I don't really mind especially in this case where I had a club side playing I was expecting a somewhat poor performance as it was a club side a bit like Zenit St Petersburg playing in EURO2008. But it is nice to see that I managed to beat Adi'han because of my RP factor gave me a bit of a shock I can tell you.

Nice to see things a bit clearer now cheers.

On a related note, I have moved up to 54th, not a bad improvement I think I was in the 60's last time they were released, I fear I will have to leave it up luck for the up coming qualifiers as when they are going to be run looks like they will be during a time when I will have to resist coming on NS at all. *Don't listen to the voices, fight the temptation*

*sigh*

I've just about dropped off of NS. I don't even know if I'll participate beyond the 41st Cup or even RP in it. >_< It's just not interesting anymore I guess.

*sigh*

I've just about dropped off of NS. I don't even know if I'll participate beyond the 41st Cup or even RP in it. >_< It's just not interesting anymore I guess.

OK Thanks for the warning.

*sigh*

I've just about dropped off of NS. I don't even know if I'll participate beyond the 41st Cup or even RP in it. >_< It's just not interesting anymore I guess.

We all need breaks from time to time. I'm just a few months back from a year-long "vacation" myself. But as the godfather said, "Just as I thought I was out, they pull me back in."

NS is an addition, and while you can learn to control addictions, you never fully recover.

*sigh*

I've just about dropped off of NS. I don't even know if I'll participate beyond the 41st Cup or even RP in it. >_< It's just not interesting anymore I guess.

Auf wiedersehn, pet.

さよなら...

I would very much appreciate it if a nation who has current played just a single match under the auspices of the World Cup would refrain from attempting to be some sort of official sign-up thread spokesman. Thank-you.

Oh dear. Apparently simple facts are beyond my bounds as a new participant now too. Stepping on more toes, I seem to be.

Soon I won't be allowed to RP either. "Won't be right" for a person in "my position" after all. :rolleyes:

If I may interject before anything starts here and suggest we don't have a domestic in the Signup thread, folks?

Take it to irc or PMs if you must.

Aye. Was just trying to help. Didn't think I overstepped any bounds by basically restating what vets have told me. *shrugs* I'll refrain I suppose. Sorry.

EDIT: And in the meantime, Star, since you are an "official spokesman" could you please put my name on the list of nations signed up for the World Cup as well as the BoF, since I am. Thanks. :)

Things have been getting a little childish here lately. So here's y'alls rattles and pacifiers. Now sit around and listen up (Rennidan gets a cookie :D).

I think Starblaydia was trying to avoid having someone relatively fresh to the arena of sports RPs tell other relatively fresh people to the arena of sports RPs things of which they have only recently learned. While I find that helping others learn is a very intensive method of learning, it certainly gets to a point when you've exhausted all that you know and we resort to one of two options: make-it-upism or ask-someone-whos-not-thereism. Of the two, the former is much worse, and I think Starblaydia's intention to avoid a situation ultimately where people get the wrong idea about something and then we need some grand inquisition (complete with torture utensils and self-righteous priests) to set things straight. Of course, the message could have been more direct and less pointed.

That said, if you're looking to set things straight, Vephrall is the main person (I believe) who manages to the NSWC sign-ups, as our current WCC President (Starblaydia somehow has the password and furthermore decided to be a little samaritan a while back). I think... (reason why the official NSWC Signup spokesperson should be here); the best way to get things done is to TG Vephrall and ask him to poke his nose around the New World Cup Discussion and see what's going on and settle things. Of course, with elections, votes, and proposals flying all over the place, I'd imagine that he's more tied up with voting right now.

Now, hand me those rattles and pacifiers and stop being so caustic. Sometimes, I feel that we're just one huge chemistry set waiting for some doofus to mix the wrong components together and watch this place explode (and of course, not under the safety of the fume hood). We're all trying to be adults here.

disclaimer: adults all really want to be more like kids

Right, time to clean house.

STARBLAYDIA: WTF, mate? This behaviour is very unlike you. Calm down, it's only a commercial.

STEEL BUTTERFLY: It's good to see another eager face in the NSWC scene; don't let the bastards get you down.

AD'IHAN: Chill. Now.

DAEHANJEIGUK: Actually, NSWC Signups was my brainchild; Star was WCC Pres at the time, and I gave the password to him, Veph (while he was still Bedistan) and a couple of others the password.

Rant over, kids, you can look now.

Something that was settled two days ago, you've brought up again. I already said I was dropping it. There wasn't a need for your statement — nor for you to tell me what to do.

I think Starblaydia was trying to avoid having someone relatively fresh to the arena of sports RPs tell other relatively fresh people to the arena of sports RPs things of which they have only recently learned. While I find that helping others learn is a very intensive method of learning, it certainly gets to a point when you've exhausted all that you know and we resort to one of two options: make-it-upism or ask-someone-whos-not-thereism. Of the two, the former is much worse, and I think Starblaydia's intention to avoid a situation ultimately where people get the wrong idea about something and then we need some grand inquisition (complete with torture utensils and self-righteous priests) to set things straight. Of course, the message could have been more direct and less pointed.

Quoted for 100% truth.

STARBLAYDIA: WTF, mate? This behaviour is very unlike you. Calm down, it's only a commercial.

Oh no, if you look back you'll notice that every so often I have a go at someone who's getting on my nerves - it just doesn't happen very often.

So much to read now that I'm back...

Something that was settled two days ago, you've brought up again. I already said I was dropping it. There wasn't a need for your statement — nor for you to tell me what to do.

Just once, can you get by without absolutely having to have the last word? Please?

(Not to mention, as I said last night, you aren't here to decide what there is and isn't a need for.)

Something that was settled two days ago, you've brought up again. I already said I was dropping it. There wasn't a need for your statement — nor for you to tell me what to do.

If there wasn't a need for the statement, there was certainly no need for the petulant reply.

Ignorance is bliss, LE.

Oh no, if you look back you'll notice that every so often I have a go at someone who's getting on my nerves - it just doesn't happen very often.

Rant retracted, as I've just done exactly the same thing. :)

I hate chewing things out more than what they're needed.

But seriously people - we need to chill. How's about a visit to Antarctica? It's pretty nice this time of year. I don't mind people having the last word - I just mind the manner in which they have this last word.

Now, here's a really nice last word (rather ten sentences of them...):


Never be angry at the same time.
Never yell at each other unless the World Cup Discussion Thread is on fire.
If anyone must win an argument, let it be the other.
If you must criticize, do it lovingly.
Never bring up mistakes of the past.
Neglect the World Cup rather than the rest of the world.
Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled.
At least once every day say a kind or complimentary word to your partners.
When you have done something wrong, admit it and ask for forgiveness.
Remember, it takes at least two to make a quarrel.

At least once every day say a kind or complimentary word to your partners.


What if you're single?

What if you're single?

Then be nice to Ms Palm and her sisters.

Just so you guys know…

I never meant to cause any problems here. I’m not trying to immediately implement change nor am I trying to act like a know it all and that I can speak for the lot of you. If any of you have interacted with me at other venues, you know that I can come off as kinda harsh. I promise you that doing so was not my intention here. I’m not trying to step on anyone’s toes.

I know that I’ve gotten pretty equally encouraged and discouraged here at the same time for what I've posted both here and in the sign-up thread. For what it’s worth, I apologize for being so divisive. Really I just wanted to be a part of what is without question the longest running RP series on NationStates. I came here trying to make friends, not enemies. Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way. It was not my intention.

Did I miss the result of which bid won the right to host WC41 amidst all the other fun stuff in this thread, or is that still pending?

Did I miss the result of which bid won the right to host WC41 amidst all the other fun stuff in this thread, or is that still pending?

That result will be coming in approximately 20 hours and 22 minutes.

So much to read now that I'm back...
Eh... I just gave up trying.

Just so you guys know…

I never meant to cause any problems here. I’m not trying to immediately implement change nor am I trying to act like a know it all and that I can speak for the lot of you. If any of you have interacted with me at other venues, you know that I can come off as kinda harsh. I promise you that doing so was not my intention here. I’m not trying to step on anyone’s toes.

I know that I’ve gotten pretty equally encouraged and discouraged here at the same time for what I've posted both here and in the sign-up thread. For what it’s worth, I apologize for being so divisive. Really I just wanted to be a part of what is without question the longest running RP series on NationStates. I came here trying to make friends, not enemies. Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way. It was not my intention.

I'm personally not trying to discourage you from trying to join the club. Having only joined it recently, it's a very weird mix of people, and I think in time you will come to appreciate the people here (including the "annoying" ones, the "disruptive" ones, the "talks-in-math" ones, the "never-RPing-but-somehow-qualify-despite-the-odds" ones, the "hypocritical" ones, the "loving-like-my-mum" ones, the "crazy-like-my-mum" ones, and the "belong-in-an-asylum" ones). Debate tends to pull the worst out of people, unfortunately; but I hope that you do take some time to look at the system and try to make it work better. One of the reasons why this thing lasts so long is because those diverse people willingly come together to make it work, even if they're the only minority (of course, being a part of the majority is nice too).

If you're looking to become a part of the club, the only real advise that I can give is practice patience. If you're lucky, they'll love you at first sight. If you're not, you'll have to wait for about three or thirty World Cups before they'll even talk to you.

And for what it's worth, you're doing a great job in the BoF - that's probably where it counts the most, more so than working the system.

What if you're single?

What?!? I thought we were allied! I gave you my sushi chef so you could eat seafood pizza whenever you wanted it! Is this anyway to treat your bestest partner in the world?

*sobs in a corner amidst a panel of doctors watching behind a closed glass room*

*Munches on his previously recieved cookie and prods Daehan with a stick.*

Hehe.



So, anyone want to start making bets on who'll be winning the World Cup hosting and, maybe even, the World Cup itself?

...the World Cup itself?

I bet against The Macabees, does that count?

What?!? I thought we were allied! I gave you my sushi chef so you could eat seafood pizza whenever you wanted it! Is this anyway to treat your bestest partner in the world?

*sobs in a corner amidst a panel of doctors watching behind a closed glass room*

ooc: Well if you had put IC at the top of your post...

ic: Mmm... tasty...

Never be angry at the same time.
Never yell at each other unless the World Cup Discussion Thread is on fire.
If anyone must win an argument, let it be the other.
If you must criticize, do it lovingly.
Never bring up mistakes of the past.
Neglect the World Cup rather than the rest of the world.
Never go to sleep with an argument unsettled.
At least once every day say a kind or complimentary word to your partners.
When you have done something wrong, admit it and ask for forgiveness.
Remember, it takes at least two to make a quarrel.


Nonsense. We Orthodox are perfectly capable of quarrelling with ourselves, thank you very much. Why, just last week I briefly pronounced anathema on myself for toying with an imperfect and possibly heretical formulation of Trinitarian co-substantiality.

^ Came up at work today, I was trying to explain to one of the secretaries the difference between homousion and homoiusion.

OFFICIAL PRESIDENTIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

Voting is now officially closed.

And here are the results:

World Cup 41 Hosts
Cafundéu and Septentrionia - 7
Ad'ihan and Daehanjeiguk - 12

Presidential Succession
Proposal 1215 (Baz's) - 4
Proposal 1337 (CH's) - 14
Neither - 1
Invalid votes - 1

Thank you all for your participation and have a wonderful evening. Unless it isn't evening in your part of the world, in which case you're just out of luck.

OFFICIAL PRESIDENTIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

Voting is now officially closed.

And here are the results:

World Cup 41 Hosts
Cafundéu and Septentrionia - 7
Ad'ihan and Daehanjeiguk - 12

Presidential Succession
Proposal 1215 (Baz's) - 4
Proposal 1337 (CH's) - 14
Neither - 1
Invalid votes - 1

Thank you all for your participation and have a wonderful evening. Unless it isn't evening in your part of the world, in which case you're just out of luck.
Aww...I didn't even know there was voting going on.

*** Waits for mention of crickets in Dae's first WC41 related post ***

WTG 2 HANS.

Now where does my bribe go?

What crickets? *surreptitiously hides box of crickets marked for Jeruselem*

And thanks to all for putting your confidence in us. We'll summarily bust your trust when the WC final happens to feature Ad'ihan and Daehanjeiguk (Ad'ihan wins, of course...).

Bribes will be accepted as part of His Imperial Majesty's tribute. You must submit 2400 golden dragons, 2400 golden dragons bearing fiery pearls, 2400 golden dragons flying in mid-air, and 2400 golden dragons bearing footballs. The first country to submit this tribute will automatically win the Cup.


But seriously, thanks to all who voted for Ad'ihan and Daehan. Commiserations to Cafundeu (dear CoH31 cohost) and Septentrionia - they didn't lose by much, and I'm sure that they would have made a great team for WC41. Here's to a great WC season and that the best team wins it all!

What crickets? *surreptitiously hides box of crickets marked for Jeruselem*

And thanks to all for putting your confidence in us. We'll summarily bust your trust when the WC final happens to feature Ad'ihan and Daehanjeiguk (Ad'ihan wins, of course...).

Bribes will be accepted as part of His Imperial Majesty's tribute. You must submit 2400 golden dragons, 2400 golden dragons bearing fiery pearls, 2400 golden dragons flying in mid-air, and 2400 golden dragons bearing footballs. The first country to submit this tribute will automatically win the Cup.


But seriously, thanks to all who voted for Ad'ihan and Daehan. Commiserations to Cafundeu (dear CoH31 cohost) and Septentrionia - they didn't lose by much, and I'm sure that they would have made a great team for WC41. Here's to a great WC season and that the best team wins it all!

Qazox gives Daehanjeiguk 2400 golden dragons, 2400 golden dragons bearing fiery pearls, 2400 golden dragons flying in mid-air, and 2400 golden dragons bearing footballs.

YAY FOR ME!!!! LOL ;)

Qazox gives Daehanjeiguk 2400 golden dragons, 2400 golden dragons bearing fiery pearls, 2400 golden dragons flying in mid-air, and 2400 golden dragons bearing footballs.

YAY FOR ME!!!! LOL ;)

You're missing one! Now you shall NEVER AGAIN win the World Cup!

http://www.philosophyblog.com.au/images/film-still-from-the-emperor-and-the-assassin-set-i1.jpg

When posting your roster, please include your style modifier: whether you want it to be +1 (attacking), 0 (neutral) or -1 (defensive). Decimal modifiers will not be accepted. Use of decimal modifiers will default to +1 if positive and -1 if negative. Use of modifiers outside of specified range will default to 0.


Qazox Pheonix World Cup 41 Roster:

Now Featuring Uniforms for the First time Ever!!!
...
Style Modifier: +3


Now, if you're asking me, that just made me laugh. If I were drinking milk, I would have squirt it out my nose, ears, eyes, and perhaps if I waited long enough, my rear-end.

I'd strongly suggest a modification or else the Pheonix. Perhaps +1?

Now, if you're asking me, that just made me laugh.

Certainly a better style than nakedness

You're missing one! Now you shall NEVER AGAIN win the World Cup!



So one of the dragons was carrying a rugby ball.. we ran out of soccer balls.

I'd strongly suggest a modification or else the Pheonix. Perhaps +1?

Wanna know what's even funnier?

I voted for you CAUSE of the -1,0,+1 modifier...LOL.:headbang:

Whoo! I've been gone for months and I'm still ranked 53rd! HAHA!

I miss the -5 to +5 modifier... Total defensive teams ftw.

^ Came up at work today, I was trying to explain to one of the secretaries the difference between homousion and homoiusion.


<Nods at Wentland with new-found respect for his understanding of the difference between same substance and like substance.>

Just as well you didn't include heteroousian with the homoousian and homoiusian, or the Holy Synod would have been forced to denounce your Arian heresies.

Now let's go kick some heretic arse on the football field....

Heteroousion DEFINITELY did not come up. Although I think Arius had a point.

No more +5 for SN. :(

Heteroousion DEFINITELY did not come up. Although I think Arius had a point.

HERETIC!

The Archregimancy pronounces anathema on Wentland.

Next you'll be cosying up to Nestorius.

BLASPHEMY!

There's no such thing as heresy! *reads book* Oh, so that's what heresy means... Okay. We support the Holy Synod's decision to pronounce anesthesia upon Wentland. *reads book even more* Wait, we're not orthodox...

BLASPHEMY!

Because LE's as LE ep - sorry, asleep - on IRC, I'm assuming the Han-man (ie Daehan :p) might see this, unless you're on the time zone and sleep at the same time.

...saying that, has anyone ever seen LE and Daehan in the same room? Sounds fishy to me.

Anyway, does either host know when friendly requests might be taken? Ta much.

I have!

And to allay your fears, we're not same person (although that would be neat :p). And I have never met LE in person. If you need proof... that's going to take a while *strips and looks for LE costume*

Anyway, I'm personally waiting for the end of the BoF before taking anything friendly. LE might be doing the same; besides that, we're still settling the Group Stage schedules, so it is probably fruitless to schedule a friendly until we can determine who will be doing what and when (thankfully, we've solved the how and why).

No more +5 for SN. :(

This cup is for moderates, not for extremists. Sorry SN :(

Alrighty, thanks Mr. Han-man :)

I hope the Dallas Enterprises logo doesn't offend anyone. It's simple but then it's to the point.

:p

Oh no, a racy silhouette! IT CAN'T BE UNSEEN!

Actually, coming from Jerusalem, a silhouette is rather tame, don't you think? ;-)

Are there any 'new teams' willing to do a friendly?

Rennidan have only been in one World Cup.

That count as 'new' to you, Maca?

That count as 'new' to you, Maca?

Sure, but I'll talk to you over IRC. :p

Oh no, a racy silhouette! IT CAN'T BE UNSEEN!

Actually, coming from Jerusalem, a silhouette is rather tame, don't you think? ;-)

LOL, I kept it tame so I don't get banned from Jolt in case someone did say it broke some rules. :)

LOL, I kept it tame so I don't get banned from Jolt in case someone did say it broke some rules. :)

TAME.... bah.

At least i had guts enough to post an image of not one, but TWO topless women once during one of the old WWC's! (well technically they were topless, though they were wearing bodypaint...)

So i think a "racy" logo wouldn't be to far out of the question.

I know this doesn't really belong here, but....


MANNY IS THE MAN: WTG MANNY RAMIREZ ON YOUR 500TH HOMERUN!
W000000000000T!

I now return you to the usual blathering idiots.

You could at least spell Ramírez right. :P

You could at least spell Ramírez right. :P

(LOL, thank for the spelling check LE, i can't spell it right 1/2 the damn time.)

TAME.... bah.

At least i had guts enough to post an image of not one, but TWO topless women once during one of the old WWC's! (well technically they were topless, though they were wearing bodypaint...)

So i think a "racy" logo wouldn't be to far out of the question.

I'm just playing safe :)
This is a family forum (in theory). :D

would anyone be willing to host a full CoH with me as there running mate just as a pollitical figure. I was going to do it with LE but that ideas over. Or it might be better if we did it threw a BoF though.

would anyone be willing to host a full CoH with me as there running mate just as a pollitical figure. I was going to do it with LE but that ideas over. Or it might be better if we did it threw a BoF though.

I'd be up for it, sure

I'd be up for it, sure

Danger, Will Robinson, danger!


(Only joking, Taesh. Good luck in your bid. :))

Danger, Will Robinson, danger!


(Only joking, Taesh. Good luck in your bid. :))

That wouldn't be a snide comment in my direction would it? :p

im good with that Alversia just as long as your up to it all

Anyways get in tough with me for all your things you want to do. Such as what tournament and such(CoH hopefully because i might not be in it for the first time ever)jinx Damn it

Provided that they're not drawn in the same group, the Holy Empire hereby officially challenges Milchama to a friendly.

My blancmanges versus your banana.....

The Princesses and army team Jeru FC are up for friendlies if teams are really bored.

mmmmmmmm...princesses.

/Homer Simpson.

Is it that time again? In that case, Dancougar requests...
* Casari, who currently hold the Golden Cake Pan
* Newmanistan, for a trophy we call the Golden Ambiguous Bird in Skates
* Prux, in an all-out brawl between the robot ducks and robot chickens

Doesn't matter where, doesn't matter when...

I understand that friendlies are already being arranged, so if you have finalised friendlies, for the sake of convenience (and so as not to let our TG boxes flow over) please email all confirmed friendlies to nswc.hosts@gmail.com.

The sweep for ceased nations will be conducted prior to the group draw, which is scheduled tentatively for this weekend.

Is it that time again? In that case, Dancougar requests...
* Prux, in an all-out brawl between the robot ducks and robot chickens

Doesn't matter where, doesn't matter when...

From the desk of Professor Juan GearLosse: Ve accepting you challenging!

Is it that time again? In that case, Dancougar requests...
* Casari, who currently hold the Golden Cake Pan

Doesn't matter where, doesn't matter when...

As current owner of the nation of Casari (OOCly that is), I'm happy to accept the friendly to keep up it's sporting traditions. Feel free to e-mail the hosts, where and when is also up to you.

* Newmanistan, for a trophy we call the Golden Ambiguous Bird in Skates
...

We accept the challenge and look forward to competing for the trophy. We'll travel, and do it pre-qualifying.

The Vonkian football team would love to have a friendly with anyone, to help them fine-tune their skills. Unfortunately, the Vonkian Football Stadium isn't ready yet (goats ate all the grass, so it'll have to be replanted), so the games will have to be played either on top of one of the largest trees in the forest, or on a large, wobbly raft floating on the largest of our Big Vonkian Lakes. Any takers?

Hey Dae you up for are annual 3rd in a row mid Qualifying friendly and Vonks well take you on

The Vonkian football team would love to have a friendly with anyone, to help them fine-tune their skills. Unfortunately, the Vonkian Football Stadium isn't ready yet (goats ate all the grass, so it'll have to be replanted), so the games will have to be played either on top of one of the largest trees in the forest, or on a large, wobbly raft floating on the largest of our Big Vonkian Lakes. Any takers?

The Holy Empire's 11 football-playing man-eating transreality blancmanges will gladly play on a large wobbly raft floating on the largest of the Big Vonkian Lakes.

Though maybe as a mid-qualification friendly given the previous challenge issued by HEFA to Milchama.

The Vonkian football team would love to have a friendly with anyone, to help them fine-tune their skills. Unfortunately, the Vonkian Football Stadium isn't ready yet (goats ate all the grass, so it'll have to be replanted), so the games will have to be played either on top of one of the largest trees in the forest, or on a large, wobbly raft floating on the largest of our Big Vonkian Lakes. Any takers?

Jeru FC will take Vonks on ... and at your place if ye accept thy offer.
Using Jeru FC so might have a real chance to win a game.

(aka Jeruselem)

Qazox will attempt to continue its tradition of playing the Co-hosts for friendlies.

Vs. Daehanjeiguk @ Ad'ihan
vs. Ad'ihan @ Daehanjeiguk

If possible.

A friendly reminder from the WC Hosts:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE submit your friendly requests to nswc.hosts@gmail.com; otherwise we might miss it and you'll hate us really badly because (nevermind the fact that you didn't send us an email... you'll still hate us). If we're feeling particularly charitable, we might pick up a few from NSWCDT, but don't count on it.

I'm only saying this because we've got lots of talk about friendlies, but only two actual requests. If you're concerned that we're going to stalk your email account (LE might, but not me), make a new account and use it; just let us know who's playing, where, and when (we neither need nor want to know how or why). The first person to get this right gets a lovely cookie (which happens to be Dancougar - here's your cookie!)

http://ally.escapist.nu/cookiemonster/cookie.jpg

A friendly reminder from the WC Hosts:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE submit your friendly requests to nswc.hosts@gmail.com; otherwise we might miss it and you'll hate us really badly because (nevermind the fact that you didn't send us an email... you'll still hate us). If we're feeling particularly charitable, we might pick up a few from NSWCDT, but don't count on it.



I just sent one to ya, but since i got numerous accounts, i don't know which one you'll sent it to.

I just sent one to ya, but since i got numerous accounts, i don't know which one you'll sent it to.

we got your request. i'd post the email address here, but then that's sort of inviting trouble in my opinion... oh, and we did send a reply...

we got your request. i'd post the email address here, but then that's sort of inviting trouble in my opinion... oh, and we did send a reply...

Thanks, and it went to the correct addy. And i replied to the host's question.

We would like to invite Arroza to Newmanistan for a pre-season qualifying friendly.

We would like to invite Arroza to Newmanistan for a pre-season qualifying friendly.

Load up the prison buses, we're going on vacation. Yee-Haw!

Okay, if it's okay with everyone, we'll play Taeshan in Taeshan and Jeru in the Vonkian treetops pre-qualification, and an extremely wobbly blancmange game mid-qualifiers. And I'll email the hosts, since they asked so nicely.

As of this post, the following pre-qualifying friendlies are confirmed in our inbox:
Dancougar v. Newmanistan
Qazox v. Daehanjeiguk (in Ad’ihan)
Newmanistan v. Arroza

Please remember to email nswc.hosts@gmail.com (nswc.hosts@gmail.com) with confirmed requests, so that our telegram boxes don't overflow.

I should add that, following on from precedent, a maximum of three pre-qualifying friendlies per team will be allowed.

Okay, if it's okay with everyone, we'll play Taeshan in Taeshan and Jeru in the Vonkian treetops pre-qualification, and an extremely wobbly blancmange game mid-qualifiers. And I'll email the hosts, since they asked so nicely.

Go ahead :)

The Candelaria And Marquez Association Football Association, in association with the Disputed Territories of Nire and Nire, would cordially, though no more than cordially, like to invite the nations of Yafalonia and Bazor 2 and Kose and The Turkomans to compete in the Second, Although Slightly Pointless, ‘And’ Trophy (the SASPAT), in the north-east of Candelaria.

If such a thing is possible; this hallowed event, which may one day rival the World Cup itself in its prestigiousness, would see;

a) the four sides drawn randomly into two games, decided with extra-time and penalties if necessary, with the winners then competing in the final and the losers for the wooden spoon OR,

b) the make-up of the two games decided beforehand, victors in the event of a tie decided by the toss of a coin, with the deciding match taking place during mid-qualifying.

All depending largely on whether our dear, precious WC hosts would be willing to play ball on the more complicated set of first fixtures.


Sponsored by Kaleta Online: Finding spurious reasons for pre-qualifying friendly fixtures

Hey if anyone wants a friendly, I'm open.

!

Someone call Derren Brown!

Fine I'm in for the SASPAT.

Provided that they're not drawn in the same group, the Holy Empire hereby officially challenges Milchama to a friendly.

My blancmanges versus your banana.....

You're on! And now I need to refresh my Monty Python knowledge.

So hosts, when might the WC start?

So hosts, when might the WC start?

When pigs fly... (and don't worry, we're still working on that!)

When pigs fly... (and don't worry, we're still working on that!)

Or when Cubs win a World Series....

Or when Cubs win a World Series....

You do realize that's happening this October right?

You do realize that's happening this October right?

Xbox 360 or PS3 doesn't count ;)

You do realize that's happening this October right?

Indeed it is. :)

But we can't make the Cubs win the World Cup... even if we wanted to...

Any further requests for corporate sponsors (unless you're already here) should also go to nswc.hosts@gmail.com as well. The official list of corporate sponsors will close at the same time as the Group Draw (just to make it easy for us).

Is there gonna be a referee thread like last time?

Is there gonna be a referee thread like last time?

It wasn't a part of the official bid, and I don't personally have any intention to do so. But if demand is high, we will post up a referee thread for use during the World Cup. On that note, it might be more useful for the WCC to maintain and update a general pool of referees for use during WCC-sanctioned events (perhaps something that the VP can manage? :D); instead of having to redo a new thread for referees at every World Cup (because referees - unless they're going blind, which probably the case for the bad ones - don't expire after 4 years. Eh?

It wasn't a part of the official bid, and I don't personally have any intention to do so. But if demand is high, we will post up a referee thread for use during the World Cup. On that note, it might be more useful for the WCC to maintain and update a general pool of referees for use during WCC-sanctioned events (perhaps something that the VP can manage? :D); instead of having to redo a new thread for referees at every World Cup (because referees - unless they're going blind, which probably the case for the bad ones - don't expire after 4 years. Eh?

You could just recycle the current WC40 list if you're totally slack.

You could just recycle the current WC40 list if you're totally slack.

That would imply a few things:

(1) I care who referees my matches (as long as some strapping young man/woman/kid with a whistle is on hand, we're game);

(2) I have the link and am not lazy enough to look for it in the WC40 threads;

(3) I have brain that thinks about NSfooty all of the time (currently, it occupies about 70% of it...);

(4) I don't want to overwhelm our already overwhelmed WCC bureaucracy with more work;

(5) I could make this list longer, but I'm running out of good reasons to keep numbering off points;

(6) Oh! I didn't play football this afternoon and got about 3 cramps in the same leg after 2 hours of good play (either that, or we won).

As you can probably imply, I don't satisfy any of those points at all. But it's a good idea nonetheless.

I'm still around. Don't worry. This may be my last Cup though...

I was just wondering, that's all. Certainly not a big deal at all.

Though from my brief time in knowing you, Daehanjeiguk, I thought that if anyone would start such a thread, it would be you! :D

You do realize that's happening this October right?

Yep, the day after I win World Cup 42.

Yep, the day after I win World Cup 42.

You won the World Cup the last time I played World Cup 36 manager :p .

On other info, I'll really try to finish my roster at least until Sunday, but it won't be easy.

You won the World Cup the last time I played World Cup 36 manager :p .

On other info, I'll really try to finish my roster at least until Sunday, but it won't be easy.

Quick, sent that to the hosts and bribe them to make it offical!!!

All rejoice! Official rankings, they are here!

Here it is in ODS. (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Official WC41 Rankings.ods)

And this is the Excel version, for the traditionalists out there. (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Official WC41 Rankings.xls)

And the PDF, for those of you who don't need the messy details and would prefer to get right to the point. (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Official WC41 Rankings.pdf)

For internal use only. Do not store at temperatures above 97°F. If bleeding persists for more than six hours, consult your physician. Do not use with alcohol unless you have fallen ten or more places since the end of the previous Cup. May potentially be inaccurate for any teams whose kits consist of an 81% cotton/18% polyester/1% PVC combination. Warranty reimbursement valid only up to a maximum of 0.0001093 KPB points. While supplies last. Use only as directed.

All rejoice! Official rankings, they are here!

Here it is in ODS. (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Official WC41 Rankings.ods)

And this is the Excel version, for the traditionalists out there. (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Official WC41 Rankings.xls)

And the PDF, for those of you who don't need the messy details and would prefer to get right to the point. (http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/Official WC41 Rankings.pdf)

For internal use only. Do not store at temperatures above 97°F. If bleeding persists for more than six hours, consult your physician. Do not use with alcohol unless you have fallen ten or more places since the end of the previous Cup. May potentially be inaccurate for any teams whose kits consist of an 81% cotton/18% polyester/1% PVC combination. Warranty reimbursement valid only up to a maximum of 0.0001093 KPB points. While supplies last. Use only as directed.

Krytenia is still listed as Krytenia, and not West Starblaydia :p

Sweet, we're in the top 100.

Sweet! I have a 0.13 ranking!!! 158th!
Just kidding-WC41 will be my first.

By the way, could someone explain to me (roughly) how the KPB formula works? I have not yet taken Grade 9 Algebra, so when I look at the NSWiki page I just go what?

Heh, the wiki page does present it like one of those formulas you see scribbled on mad scientists' blackboards in horror movies, doesn't it? But it's actually quite simple:

For each tournament you play in, you get a score of 3 points for each game won and 1 for each draw, divided by the maximum possible number of games you could have played.

So in the BoF, Kenavt had one draw and four defeats, making 1 point, from a possible eight games (five group-stage games, quarter-final, semi-final, final), and 1 divided by 8 gives 0.13 when you round it up to two decimal places.

Arroza won seven of their games and drew one, giving them 22 points divided by 8, for 2.75.

Then the points for each tournament are multiplied by a factor of how important it is - the most recent BoF is multiplied by 1 (so left unchanged), the previous BoF is multiplied by 0.5 (so when the next BoF happens, Kenavt's ranking points from BoF28 will be reduced to 0.06 - but hopefully you'll have picked up some more points between now and then).

The most recent world cup is multiplied by 8, the one before that by 4 and the one before that by 2 - the most recent world cup qualifiers are multiplied by 4, and so on. There's also bonus points for all teams that qualify for the world cup.

So Valanora's massive 57.91 ranking points come from winning lots of games in the last three world cups and qualifying rounds, but if they don't win any in the WC41, they'll slide back down the rankings again...

OK, thanks! I think I understand it now.

Heh, the wiki page does present it like one of those formulas you see scribbled on mad scientists' blackboards in horror movies, doesn't it? But it's actually quite simple:

For each tournament you play in, you get a score of 3 points for each game won and 1 for each draw, divided by the maximum possible number of games you could have played.

So in the BoF, Kenavt had one draw and four defeats, making 1 point, from a possible eight games (five group-stage games, quarter-final, semi-final, final), and 1 divided by 8 gives 0.13 when you round it up to two decimal places.

Arroza won seven of their games and drew one, giving them 22 points divided by 8, for 2.75.

Then the points for each tournament are multiplied by a factor of how important it is - the most recent BoF is multiplied by 1 (so left unchanged), the previous BoF is multiplied by 0.5 (so when the next BoF happens, Kenavt's ranking points from BoF28 will be reduced to 0.06 - but hopefully you'll have picked up some more points between now and then).

The most recent world cup is multiplied by 8, the one before that by 4 and the one before that by 2 - the most recent world cup qualifiers are multiplied by 4, and so on. There's also bonus points for all teams that qualify for the world cup.

So Valanora's massive 57.91 ranking points come from winning lots of games in the last three world cups and qualifying rounds, but if they don't win any in the WC41, they'll slide back down the rankings again...

Well done, probably a better explanation than I'd have given myself, and exactly correct. :)

Thanks - wasn't meaning to step on your toes there, it's just that I'm a terrible nerd, and the sight of an Excel spreadsheet full of complicated calculations makes my little eyes light up with joy, so discovering the KPB rankings was a source of great delight to me :)

Back from a trip to Constantino.... I mean, Istanbul.

Don't seem to have missed much except another soul-strengthening slight slide through the rankings for the two perennial underachievers from the Dreamed Realm.

Pleased to see that the WC hasn't started quite yet - I was worried things would get underway without me. Without meaning in any way to pressure the hosts (I'm patient), I'm now feeling refreshed and ready to go....

Anyone know roughly when the Group Draws will take place?