NationStates Jolt Archive

Another one of those questions where I'd actually have to check the books (which I can't do right now), but I think there were actually two post-Independence famines, they were relatively mild, and had to do with really severe environmental problems and bad infrastructure compromising distribution. But I might just be making that up.

Thanks, VP for your advice. I really appreciate it. :D

I only have one more question for GB and VP. When can I start building hydroelectric dams? The CIA Factbook and other sources say that China has the world's largest hydroelectric potential by a 1/4th margin (I think that means China has 1/4 of the world's hydroelectric potential and the other 3/4 is split by the rest of the world). I may be wrong though.

This would give China a much needed boost four-fold.

1. Flood control, so the devasating floods of the late 1920's and the 1930's don't kill millions of Chinese and destroy billions of dollars of buildings and infrastructure.

2. Provide electricity to Chinese urban centers through a renewable energy source. So that if there are global oil and coal shortages, or any major oil / coal embargo aganist China, my China will still be able to rely on hydro power to sustain its economy and industries (They will take a hit, yes, but not as severe as would be without hydroelectric power)

3. Improve irrigation for the Chinese farms, which should help reduce any potential droughts and starvation. The "lakes" behind the dams will serve as excellent resevoirs for water supplies and such.

4. The projects will provide Chinese people with quite a lot of new jobs, and this in turn will allow the employed Chinese people to become able to afford luxuries (household appliances, vacations, fancy clothing, city goods, etc.)/


Just answer this one question, then I'll be all set to start my "Reforms in China" thread that will update every game year to reflect new projects, reforms, technological advancements, etc.

you can build dams the same size as US or Soviet historical dams about 5 years after the US or Soviets built a dam of that size.... so no Hoover sized dam until the 1940s for example. At least for now. That may change over time.

You can start building them anytime. Hydroelectric dams were in use from the beginning of the century, more-or-less, and the Chinese Empire has a long history of massive hydraulic-harnessing projects. Engineers from the United States, Germany, or Russia would probably need to be hired to design them, and you'd need to have the infrastructure in place to build them.
The real question is how long will it take? That's probably going to have to be decided more-or-less project by project.

Edit - I'll defer to GB on this one, mostly

you can build dams the same size as US or Soviet historical dams about 5 years after the US or Soviets built a dam of that size.... so no Hoover sized dam until the 1940s for example. At least for now. That may change over time.

Understood.

However, it stands to reason that my China is looking at ways to produce electricity and to reduce flood damage. China has suffered quite a bit of flooding between now (1922) and the last 100 years.

I just found an article, and now I have serious reservations about the dam projects.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/EH26Ad01.html

In light of this new information, what measures can be taken to reduce the negative impacts stated in the article? Or do I have to completely abandon all dam building?

I just found an article, and now I have serious reservations about the dam projects.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/EH26Ad01.html

In light of this new information, what measures can be taken to reduce the negative impacts stated in the article? Or do I have to completely abandon all dam building?

Regretably, that is one of those things that becomes apparent in 20/20 hindsight. IC wise, that wouldn't be even a glimmer of concern just yet. At this point in history, the US and Russia are building dams and polluting the air like mad, just as the Europeans are. Thinking Green is a late 20th Century concept, created by the observation of the impact of not thinking Green.

Regretably, that is one of those things that becomes apparent in 20/20 hindsight. IC wise, that wouldn't be even a glimmer of concern just yet. At this point in history, the US and Russia are building dams and polluting the air like mad, just as the Europeans are. Thinking Green is a late 20th Century concept, created by the observation of the impact of not thinking Green.

The issue I have with the dams is the polluted water- the article says that China dumps sewage, industrial waste, and chemicals into the rivers which means people can't drink river water anymore.

Another major concern is that China has 5x the population of the USA, and in today's RL USA (2005) the Mississippi River isn't a "trickle" like the Yangtze River is in China. I guess what I'm saying is that China will realize the ecological problems much faster than the USA or Russia, as in E20, it is much more modernized and industrialized at an earlier date than in real life history.

Nothing like the combined population of Russia + USA+Germany in 1920's within one nation, China, to really make ecological issues noticed.

Some small updates for Korean affairs-we are undergoing a limited military modernization program, and we are sending a grand committee to investigate labor conditions.

If any of this isn't kosher....well, I'd like to know.

Galveston Bay and I have been in consultation, and agree more or less on the following things:

1) The generous outpouring of foreign aid (as occurred in Real Life), in combination with a strong and swift government response (as did not occur in Real Life), have succeeded in oreventing a serious famine. "Excess deaths" (the official though disturbingly euphemistic term) in the Union due to hunger and ill-health will probably remain in the low thousands, at most, and consist almost entirely of the aged, the very young, and the infirm. Basically it was more like the Dust Bowl than the Big Hunger. Other countries can probably stop offering assistance at this point. Crops will fail next year, too, but we'll probably just import grain to cover the shortfall, and after that the situation will normalize (see below).

2) Economic disruption is severe, but basically temporary. A lot of small, marginal, or inefficient farms will go under and their owners will be financially ruined; the government itself will go into debt financing huge irrigation projects and importing foreign food; and the Union as a whole will become a net grain importer for the next couple of years. Hungary, Yugoslavia, and Romania will probably benefit economically. Ukrainian wheat production will resume as normal by 1924, however, and by the next drought, in 1929 I think, the irrigation projects will be far enough along so that barring any further disasters, such as a Second Civil War or a Great Plague (see below) the Union should be safe from famine for the rest of the twentieth century.

3) The successful avoidance of the Famine of 1921-23 will have a couple of ironic consequences. Internal migration and agricultural restructuring will actually boost the Union's economy in the long term, by freeing up a lot of marginal farm labor for use in industrialization and infrastructure development. This will allow for things like the industrialization of the Urals and Siberia without recourse to monstrous programs like Collectivation once the initial shocks to the Union's economy are absorbed. Probably by the late twenties, early thirties, such projects may begin to bear their first fruits - as in RL, but without all that tedious Great Terror.

4) The other ironic consequence is more grim. The Famine in RL was followed by a serious epidemic, which actually claimed most of the lives lost. A benefit that came out of it, however, was that it was the first time that doctors and scientists really studied a pandemic systematically. We haven't had a Spanish Influenza, yet, either. This means that the science of epidemiology is basically unchanged since the turn of the century, and the first Pandemic that does occur will probably be correspondingly . . . unthinkable. I'm not looking forward to it.

I'll be posting up my India thread soon. I'm just short on time, you see.

But not to worry! I'll have it up by the end of Tommorrow.

We will also help in the aid effort in the Union of Russian States by providing some of our agricultural machinery and equipment....

i will be away until sunday night, so don't count me as inactive if war happens and i don't respond!

well apparently the talks in Metz didn't go anywhere... the US is going to make some proposals tomorrow to see about reviving them.

ooc wise, as one of the referees, I am getting a bit concerned about the direction we are headed. There is way too much socialism way too soon without plausible reasons for that to occur. Especially in Latin America. In addition, we have France and Germany discussing alliances when they should hate each others guts for the millions of deaths from the Great War. Although this is a game, and I understand wanting to move your country ahead to power, remember to roleplay it like they would act at that time. Nobody has ever heard of pollution, Germans hate the French and vice versa, small Latin American and Eastern European nations would not receive loans that represent a substantial portion of their GDP because there is no way they could repay them, or even pay the interest, and nations of 3 million people cannot even pay the upkeep on a modern 1920s era major warship like a cruiser or battleship.

I hope the Metz Conference does go somewhere. I myself was planning on being rather more involved, but I ended up with this damn drought instead.

Speaking of the Drought, people can stop calling it a Famine. The aid Russia's received already will prevent that from happening immediately, and henceforth I can cover my grain shortfalls through trade and deficit spending. It speaks well of all of you that you're willing to help, but the crisis point is past.

And
ooc wise, as one of the referees, I am getting a bit concerned about the direction we are headed. There is way too much socialism way too soon without plausible reasons for that to occur. Especially in Latin America. In addition, we have France and Germany discussing alliances when they should hate each others guts for the millions of deaths from the Great War. Although this is a game, and I understand wanting to move your country ahead to power, remember to roleplay it like they would act at that time. Nobody has ever heard of pollution, Germans hate the French and vice versa, small Latin American and Eastern European nations would not receive loans that represent a substantial portion of their GDP because there is no way they could repay them, or even pay the interest, and nations of 3 million people cannot even pay the upkeep on a modern 1920s era major warship like a cruiser or battleship.

These are all good points. I mean, Latin American governments could fairly be made uneasy about the US in same way as Eastern European governments are made uneasy by Russia and Germany. But the elites of Latin American countries tend to be deep in the pockets of US companies like Goodyear, United Fruit, and Anaconda Copper, and the Catholic Church is so rabidly anti-communist as to be a fire-spitting charicature of McCarthyism. And the power of the landowners is hard to break. In Brazil's west, for instance, to this very day, there is still slavery. And private armies to keep the government out.

Of course, as a player I benefit from all that Redness, so I haven't protested much (except for Belgium's equally ahistorical Libertarian/Objectivist absurdities, and the occasional weird paeans to Free Trade and comparative advantage that I see coming from some people). But it's true. Marxism historically never made much headway among peasants until Mao's modifications to the theories in the 1950's. And the Liberation Theology of the Jesuits I forget when. Sixties or Seventies, I think.

I'm not sure how to advise the Latin American players on this, except maybe to make themselves less stable if they're going to take an anti-American tack and expect to get swatted down a lot until much later in the century . . . at best. I mean - well, I guess what I mean is that I have to recuse myself. Since the other professional historian is on the opposite team, as it were (though privately I may agree with him), there's no real independent arbitration.

As to the French and Germans, we know in our own time that national (or confessional, or ideological . . .) antipathies can be put aside, especially when practical considerations are involved. I mean, Roosevelt and Stalin? An extreme case, but still. Great Britain and France were allies in both World Wars despite the seething enmity that had existed between them for the previous six hundred years.

But it ought to be remembered in such cases that the antipathies are put aside, rather than eliminated. When I think of Moscow's own deals with the Chinese and Turkish "Oriental Despotisms," I know that there's going to be strong internal opposition to these alliances - just as during the Great War and before there was a lot of internal opposition to making alliance with the Turks. But the practical advantages won out.

Nevertheless, old rivalries should not be forgotten. The English and the French still trade insults across the Channel even today, and disagree on a lot (Iraq, for instance; the Euro; the comedic value of Jerry Lewis . . .). And in E20, Spain, for instance, is still going to have to deal with Rightist reaction at some point, and it will have to be bloody regardless of who wins. And the Spanish Rightists will totally remember how they bravely fought the Russians and Germans the first time, and use that extensively in their propaganda.

And yes. Environmental concerns are as yet entirely unknown, except as preserving wilderness for future generations of game hunters. Coal and oil are just peachy sources of energy as far as anyone could justifiably think right now, and dumping toxic chemicals in the ground or the ocean (or rivers) just gets rid of it. Out of sight, out of mind. And there will be whales and elephants and harp seals forever, and Amazonian lumber, etc., etc.

And do let's not forget the coming Plague.

Indeed there have been some wierd turns of history going on. I for one didn't expect the French to discuss an alliance with Germany when the Franco-Prussian war of the 1870's is still within living memory. Whilst the apparent stability in Latin America has astounded me, shouldn't many of these countries still be rife with internal division and civil war, that's not my area of expertise history wise but i'd expect at least a little unstability.

Anyway, my real reason for posting here is to ask a favour from the mods. It is in relation to Iceland, Germany posted asking pto purchase either bases there or the whole territory for use as a naval base. Naturally Britain countered this offer (not wanting communists on the doorstep, old chap!) with one of there own primarily to deny it to the Germans. However heres the problem, Denmark has not been active lately (well certainly not in his news thread) and so I believe that he's currently NPC, therefore we require an inpartial mod judgement on who gets the territory or bases etc. (if anyone at all). Sharina would probably be the best bet as GB and VP are in alliance with the bidding powers. Of course an easy way to resolve this would be that Denmark refuses both powers and i'm happy for this solution to be in place.

Awaits mod ruling. All praise the almighty mods!

OOC: hi I'm back I've had stuff on over the past couple of days but I'm going to get to work tonight updating the various threads I'm involved in and replying to telegrams. It might take me a while 'cause I'm going to have to search through every thread and think things over but bear with me please. Thannnnnk you.

VP and GB I know there will be reactionarys but Im waiting untill they have a charoismatic leader. Thus my reason for posting about the Franco brothers in my news thread. By about 1926 we will start seeing agitation and by 1927 a fulle fledged civil war with the majority of the Army deserting to the Nationalists.

Indeed there have been some wierd turns of history going on. I for one didn't expect the French to discuss an alliance with Germany when the Franco-Prussian war of the 1870's is still within living memory. Whilst the apparent stability in Latin America has astounded me, shouldn't many of these countries still be rife with internal division and civil war, that's not my area of expertise history wise but i'd expect at least a little unstability.

Yeah, I noticed that all Latin American countries are unatrualy stable. But I am planning another coup de'atat in the near future or perhaps a change in government within the next 10 or 15 years. I think their should be people at least attempting to overthrow the current Latin American governments. That is my 2 cents worth on that.

Yeah, I noticed that all Latin American countries are unatrualy stable. But I am planning another coup de'atat in the near future or perhaps a change in government within the next 10 or 15 years. I think their should be people at least attempting to overthrow the current Latin American governments. That is my 2 cents worth on that.

What about New Zion? Are we safe from instability being as we're all European?

Not sure, one of the mods would probably give you a better answer than I could.

well apparently the talks in Metz didn't go anywhere... the US is going to make some proposals tomorrow to see about reviving them.

ooc wise, as one of the referees, I am getting a bit concerned about the direction we are headed. There is way too much socialism way too soon without plausible reasons for that to occur. Especially in Latin America. In addition, we have France and Germany discussing alliances when they should hate each others guts for the millions of deaths from the Great War. Although this is a game, and I understand wanting to move your country ahead to power, remember to roleplay it like they would act at that time. Nobody has ever heard of pollution, Germans hate the French and vice versa, small Latin American and Eastern European nations would not receive loans that represent a substantial portion of their GDP because there is no way they could repay them, or even pay the interest, and nations of 3 million people cannot even pay the upkeep on a modern 1920s era major warship like a cruiser or battleship.

Just for the record, France has not pursued any Alliance with the Germans or the Russians. We have been trying to improve relations as the French do not want another war at the moment (Plus the Socialist governement helps a bit.). We don't have that much of a problem with the Russians as we didn't fight them that much and they pretty much left us alone during the war.

France is almost trying to become a "Third Pole" and not get drawn into a war if it starts. Rahter unfortunately for them they have several treaty's signed a decade or two ago that require them to get involved in a war should something go horribly wrong...

What about New Zion? Are we safe from instability being as we're all European?

sort of... you are outside of the local power structure, but you are also alien, which has its good and bad points

Although this probably should have been posted in the military thread, what effects will the Wankel engine being semi-popular in this timeline have? While only Italy and Korea have made uses of the engine (or so I think), Italy has adopted the Wankel as the standard engine. It is less fuel efficient, but it has a greater power/weight ratio. Conceivably, airplanes will be more powerful, but at an expense of range. That is probably the most important for the short term, but the long term effects are perhaps greater.

Suppose WWII breaks out tommorow. Italy would probably launch some research into the Wankel and ways to make it more efficient. So, accepting this is likely, is it at all possible that scientists would discover the quasi-turbine? The Q-T is very similar to a Wankel, the key differences being that the rotor and housing is a different shape. This shape allows the engine to be even more fuel efficient (I think) and have the power/weight benefits.

So, Comrade Moderators, I'd like some opinions on how a quasi-turbine in, say, 1940 would change things. Italy, already a Wankel-dominated state, would probably adopt the Q-T. But, being better in every way than a normal engine (cost, weight, power, fuel efficiency), I'd have to imagine more than just Italy would develop the Q-T.

Although this probably should have been posted in the military thread, what effects will the Wankel engine being semi-popular in this timeline have? While only Italy and Korea have made uses of the engine (or so I think), Italy has adopted the Wankel as the standard engine. It is less fuel efficient, but it has a greater power/weight ratio. Conceivably, airplanes will be more powerful, but at an expense of range. That is probably the most important for the short term, but the long term effects are perhaps greater.

Suppose WWII breaks out tommorow. Italy would probably launch some research into the Wankel and ways to make it more efficient. So, accepting this is likely, is it at all possible that scientists would discover the quasi-turbine? The Q-T is very similar to a Wankel, the key differences being that the rotor and housing is a different shape. This shape allows the engine to be even more fuel efficient (I think) and have the power/weight benefits.

So, Comrade Moderators, I'd like some opinions on how a quasi-turbine in, say, 1940 would change things. Italy, already a Wankel-dominated state, would probably adopt the Q-T. But, being better in every way than a normal engine (cost, weight, power, fuel efficiency), I'd have to imagine more than just Italy would develop the Q-T.

Don't forget, China has the Wankel- at least China has been investing in it in exchange for Italian help building highways and paved roads in China.

Well speaking of engines I expect to use all the German classic ones. Citing that no in their right mind scientist would ever stay inside Germany anymore so they have all moved to Norway or Denmark.

I don't really get why scientists would want to go hunting in the Savannas of Africa. I would say that the Mods would hav to get the final decision though.

Aso the Denmark has found a certain young scientist named Albert Einstien and would give 1,000,000 million Denmark Krones, (If he isn't alive yet sorry.)

This reply is really behind since all of a sudden there is Reds all over the place and that I have some questions, comments, and a little bit of actions.....
Questions.....
1.) What are the communists states (a list)
2.) What is the level of american invasion. (In Venazala, sry sp)
3.) Waht is the name of Germany now?
4.) How much is Germany asking for Iceland and how much land. (Same for UK)
5.) Are you still thinking about my offer Belgium (I gave you a week)

Comments.....
1.) Denmark pretty much denies the goverment of France and Germany at the moment, the communist ones.
2.) Denmark thinks the US did a good thing and that "It'll push some over to commis and that it makes US have enemies" is really wrong on all accounts. (I will get into that later)

Actions.....
1.) Denmark hopes that UK outbids the terroists. (Officialy)
2.) Denmark will continue negotiations with Russia.
3.) Denmark will be pre-pared if any agression by communists radicals.
4.) Denmark's building of defenses is done and makes it a very good defense.
5.) A Atlantic-Pacific Aid Pact Denamrk will happily join, if made.


Okay about the very un-realistic cons about US invasions.... I will use info with the latest Iraqi occupation and Spanish-American War with politics of that time mostly from "Don't know much about history".
Cons-Answer

It will push captilists away towards communism- What? America kicking out commis and commis showing an un-decisisivness.
It will alinate Latin America- Really not, if Latin America doesn't think that European powers are bad for the health of the population (Remeber Spain)
then they shouldn't think america is.
It makes america look like an imperialistic land grabber- Not if you compare it to European nations and that Latins should be thinking about the oil exports not politics, historically speaking oil should be becoming a very economic source for the latin american countries.

If I am wrong in some factorial way (no opinions please) say so.

Quito Daily News

1922
The first team of explorers has gotten to the top of Mountain Chimborazo. They started with 10 member of the team. Near the top 2 slipped and fell. There bodies have not been found. On the top of the mountain the explorers put the Ecuadorian flag. The explorers are national heroes.

Well speaking of engines I expect to use all the German classic ones. Citing that no in their right mind scientist would ever stay inside Germany anymore so they have all moved to Norway or Denmark.

I don't really get why scientists would want to go hunting in the Savannas of Africa. I would say that the Mods would hav to get the final decision though.

I'm not sure on that one, so I'll defer to GB or VP on this one.

Aso the Denmark has found a certain young scientist named Albert Einstien and would give 1,000,000 million Denmark Krones, (If he isn't alive yet sorry.)

He is alive- he was born before 1900, I believe, and died in 1955. I'm not sure where he is at this point in time- I do know he fled Germany to the USA sometime in the 1930's though.

This reply is really behind since all of a sudden there is Reds all over the place and that I have some questions, comments, and a little bit of actions.....

I'll try to answer them the best I can. :)

Questions.....
1.) What are the communists states (a list)
2.) What is the level of american invasion. (In Venazala, sry sp)
3.) Waht is the name of Germany now?
4.) How much is Germany asking for Iceland and how much land. (Same for UK)
5.) Are you still thinking about my offer Belgium (I gave you a week)

1. Germany and Russia. Nations leaning towards socialism or communism is France, Spain, and Brazil. I'm not sure if there are others.

2. The USA finished the invasion and is withdrawing, as elections are held in Venezeula, backed up with Colombian troops (I believe).

3. Germany's still Germany, but the union of Germany and Russia is now called "Warsaw Pact" I believe.

4. I have no idea- I think they're talking about it in TG's or Chatzy.

5. You should TG or post to Belgium again and see what happens, assuming he's still active.



I hope I helped. :)

No. Denmark, stop trying to take all of my scientists. ATM, Germany and Russia are Social Democracies who pay their teachers VERY well. Plus, the Communists are anti-anti-semitics, as the Tzar went and killed jews. So if anything, the Jews would like the communists, rather than the old friends of the genociders. So, I have no clue why you think the smart guys would leave. They only left because of the growing Nazi oppression.

Secondly, I don't know how much I am willing to offer. I think you should offer what you want for it.

And Einstein is still in Germany.

Yeah . . . right.
In fact, a lot of "smart guys" and brilliant scientists from all over the world were Leftists or at least Left-leaning. There's been no noticeable brain drain in either Germany or even Russia, and Denmark can't afford what Moorington seems to think it can. It's a rinky-dink little nothing of a country. I mean, it barely even exists.
Einstein may well still be in Germany, though he's as likely in Switzerland (he would have fled the German Revolution, and he may or may not have returned). It doesn't matter, though. He's not going be making nukes for anybody anytime soon.
And we should all be happy about that.

Yeah . . . right.
In fact, a lot of "smart guys" and brilliant scientists from all over the world were Leftists or at least Left-leaning. There's been no noticeable brain drain in either Germany or even Russia, and Denmark can't afford what Moorington seems to think it can. It's a rinky-dink little nothing of a country. I mean, it barely even exists.
Einstein may well still be in Germany, though he's as likely in Switzerland (he would have fled the German Revolution, and he may or may not have returned). It doesn't matter, though. He's not going be making nukes for anybody anytime soon.
And we should all be happy about that.

Actually, the Manhattan Project was led by a group of scientists- Dr. Leo Silzard, Mannerheim, Larsen Jensen, etc.

Besides, we never know if we might develop nukes in E20- in RL, the nuke project was put into action because of Hitler and WW 2. With the different atmosphere in E20, I won't be surprised if nukes were still invented by 1940 - 1950 with World War 2 or even 3 (should World War 2 happen now in 1920's).

Einstein isn't the be all, end all of nuclear programs, as there could be other scientists that will be able to do so.

Vas and I discussed nuclear power the other night. My opinion is this. As things stand now, the theoritical science will continue as it did historically. I very much doubt significant numbers of scientists have had to flee anywhere at this point. There simply isn't state instituted anti Semitism for one thing, and academics like everyone else stay where they feel at home and can be productive and learn. Einstein for example is in Berlin and is head of a major university science department.

The hardest part of the Manhatten Project was the engineering according to sources I have read. Once the theory was understood, and it was pretty well understood even before World War II, it was a matter of the applied physics and applied engineering. More importantly though it was a matter of vast amounts of money, resources and applied concentration of effort. Something only the US had the luxury of carrying out in the midst of Total War, and short of that nuclear power is going to be delayed by 5 - 10 years. You have to remember that the US not only built the bombs, but also major industrial facilities from scratch at Hanford and Oak Ridge, and a major research facility at Alamagordo. This cost Billions of dollars in 1944 dollars (multiply that by nearly a factor of 10 to get the costs in current dollars).

Only the Soviets in the immediate post war period could match that effort, and they had the advantage of inside information gleaned from the American effort. But at a similar high cost in money and resources and far more lost lives.

Bottom line is this.. you must be Tech level 6, have an economy of Strong or better, and it costs $5 Billion in 1944 dollars to attempt nuclear projects, and you can not start it before 1942, and it will take 3 - 10 years. You also must have access to uranium and there will be a risk of serious accident and setbacks. For example, Heisenberg, the German leader of their effort, had the theory wrong on the construction of a device, and a pile built on his plan would have catastrophically melted down with severe contimination.

By the way, Einstein, other than the theory and prompting Roosevelt to take the possibility seriously, had no hands on role in the Manhatten Project.

The Hydrogen bomb is even more complicated and risky.

Understood.

I personally would like to have E20 delay the development of nukes for as long as possible- I wouldn't mind nukes *not* being developed until 1970 or later.

I have this concern that once we do research and start building nukes, then it will have a two-fold effect. First, it will probably stop the fun wars we've been enjoying because of "if you invade me, I will n00k j00" then people will be too afraid to RP conflicts (either war, diplomatic, or other types). Second, I do not want E20 to end up a n00k-fest like in mainstream NS. I don't want someone getting pissed or whatever either IC'ly or OOC'ly then go "n00k" the person they're pissed at.

Quito Daily News

1922
President Jose Tamayo plans on building a military base in Venezuela. It will be located near the capital. It will fort will hold 5,000 men. It will take a least two years to be finished. He also said after the fort is done all troops will leave, execpt a 5,000 men force.

I asked this a while ago and got no response, can New-Zion build a Uni?

Quito Daily News

1922
President Jose Tamayo plans on building a military base in Venezuela. It will be located near the capital. It will fort will hold 5,000 men. It will take a least two years to be finished. He also said after the fort is done all troops will leave, execpt a 5,000 men force.
Comstan, please post your News in your News Thread, not the Main Thread. Thanks.

I asked this a while ago and got no response, can New-Zion build a Uni?
What's a Uni?

What's a Uni?

University

aWhat's a Uni?

Probably university.

I know this is really late to join, but can I be something like Arabia? It was starting to have an important impact on the world around this time, what with oil becoming vital and all.

Oh right, that's owned by the Ottomans. We could have it become independant in '27 like it did from GB. Otherwise could you arrange something for me or am I too late?

Great Bled: You can still join, we're always looking for new players. As for Arabia, you can sign up and become a resistance movement or whatever if you want to or you can choose another sovereign nation, there's still a few around.

Sorry Moorington, I though you had left! Britain made a counter offer in your news thread. Partly fnded by the Italian purchase of parts of Egypt and partly from the treasury. As to what parts, I would prefer all of Iceland (will pay more if necessary) but I am willing to negotiate and you can keep fishing rights and your population there etc.

From what Ottoman Khaif has done, I think most Arabs are pretty satsfied. Other than the random bedouins. But they're never happy. It would be better if you were another country like Canada, Peru, Czechloslovakia or something in Africa.

Parthini']From what Ottoman Khaif has done, I think most Arabs are pretty satsfied. Other than the random bedouins. But they're never happy. It would be better if you were another country like Canada, Peru, Czechloslovakia or something in Africa.

Yeah that's what I was thinking, unless the Arabs are fanatical enough to hate him for his good relations with Christians, though I'm not sure that's a good idea, what do you people think? Otherwise, if I want a petrol producer, I could take the UAE from the British, they'd be likely to revolt. (I'd rather have a country that people agree should be controlled.)

Vas Pokhoronim, I sent a TG to you.

Got it, Danard.

Great Bled, please read the First Post in this Thread thoroughly. (And privately, if you want an oil-producing state, Venezuela is just coming available, but it has a history).

Sent another TG, Vas Pokhoronim.

How is Venezuela open if it is under a military rule by Colombia and Ecuador? Plus i think the U.S. destoryed the Oil fields in Venezuela.

1. What can be done to help reduce the complexity of the Chinese language for the sake of education and literacy? Or would it be better to maintain the Chinese language so to stymize spying, espionage, and foreign intelligence services?

Try to change you language into a more latin form by trying to get some charecters (Wave lets say) so you make the symbol stand for w. So you can make your own alphebat like the latins (Alpha-a beta-b ect ect....) and you don'y have to follow the american aphabet and so you can make some symbols for silent words, chus and stuff. So that would be a viable way.

So through the whole of the German revolution no scientists what so ever wanted to jump the open borders and ease into some very nice mansions and paychecks? Since people like money. But of course I will bow down to the really super mods and just ask how many scientists came over (maybe 1?).

Okay I thank Sharina for help and have more questions....

1.) Where is Einstien?
2.) What about that little country made between France and Germany?
3.) I know a good amount about the northern passage but can the mods give me an estimate, I was thinking 6-7 months out f the year and everything else expensive or impossible.
4.) Who is controlling Russia and Germany (Parthini replied to me about islands and Vas replied to me about Germany's request for Iceland (and killed his chances)
5.) When will railroads be avalible to Denmark (if they arn't already).
6.) I was wondering about world curriences and I have a little posted on my Diplomatic Branch but are they any accurate.
7.) Will we have a historian?
8.) Will we have a currency exchange?


Some little bits of importance....
Denmark's Congress has turned away from the consertive path and towards a more elitist group. Denmark's fortifications are still being improved and they will probably be built up for another year, hafly due to funds and hafly to that most of the people will never be happy until it is impenetrable (if there is such thing.)

2.) What about that little country made between France and Germany?

Grand Duchy of Burgundy

5.) When will railroads be avalible to Denmark (if they arn't already).

Yes, Denmark already has a mostly railroad-based infastructure.

7.) Will we have a historian?

That question is a little hasy, if you mean will Denmark have a historian then i don't know, but if you mean will E20 have a historian then yes, you're looking right at him.

Cool I just wanted to know if there was going to be a historian (without a doubt not me) and thank you for clearing up those questions. Now here is some more questions....

1.) What is the GDP of Denmark?

That is all..

So through the whole of the German revolution no scientists what so ever wanted to jump the open borders and ease into some very nice mansions and paychecks? Since people like money. But of course I will bow down to the really super mods and just ask how many scientists came over (maybe 1?).

Okay I thank Sharina for help and have more questions....

1.) Where is Einstien?
2.) What about that little country made between France and Germany?
3.) I know a good amount about the northern passage but can the mods give me an estimate, I was thinking 6-7 months out f the year and everything else expensive or impossible.
4.) Who is controlling Russia and Germany (Parthini replied to me about islands and Vas replied to me about Germany's request for Iceland (and killed his chances)
5.) When will railroads be avalible to Denmark (if they arn't already).
6.) I was wondering about world curriences and I have a little posted on my Diplomatic Branch but are they any accurate.
7.) Will we have a historian?
8.) Will we have a currency exchange?


Some little bits of importance....
Denmark's Congress has turned away from the consertive path and towards a more elitist group. Denmark's fortifications are still being improved and they will probably be built up for another year, hafly due to funds and hafly to that most of the people will never be happy until it is impenetrable (if there is such thing.)

information on Einstein can be found here in our timeline, and is based on the fact he stayed in Germany during World War I and the chaose after in the historical timeline, so I saw no reason for him to leave in this timeline

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9692735&postcount=2032

Cool I just wanted to know if there was going to be a historian (without a doubt not me) and thank you for clearing up those questions. Now here is some more questions....

1.) What is the GDP of Denmark?

That is all..

you would be able to figure it out by checking the economics thread, I give a simple formula for figuring it out in game terms

3.) I know a good amount about the northern passage but can the mods give me an estimate, I was thinking 6-7 months out f the year and everything else expensive or impossible.

Finland made the first successful West-East passage in 1878, but the first East-West passage was in 1915. Though it was beginning to be exploited as a trade route it was still very dangerous, of 122 convoys sent between 1877 and 1919 only 75 successfully made the crossing. It was only with the introduction of radio that a easier method was found with icebreakers working together and combining efforts whilst reporting progress over radio. It'll take some fairly significant investment to get enough icebreakers and radios to make a comparitively risk free crossing. Otherwise the route isonly free of ice for two months a year (around July-August).

4.) Who is controlling Russia and Germany (Parthini replied to me about islands and Vas replied to me about Germany's request for Iceland (and killed his chances)

I think that VP controls internal affairs and Parthini external/foreign affairs. But both have a say on what the other does, so whilst Germany approached you for Iceland (as an external matter) VP denied you the Russian islands (as this is an internal matter). That's how I think it works anyway, could be wrong though, probably best to ask VP about the details.

6.) I was wondering about world curriences and I have a little posted on my Diplomatic Branch but are they any accurate.

I believe that the pound is the strongest currency around (at 3 dollars to the pound last I heard) but the exact currency exchange will change with world events, eg. WWII really dented the purchasing power of the pound (and the deutschmark, though not as much as WWI) and other currencies improved. The thing with this is that it's really difficult to adjudicate and keep track of. It's probably easiest just to stick with one of the major currencies either pounds or dolalrs for international deals, there'smuch more information on historical exchange rates for them.

8.) Will we have a currency exchange?

If you're volunteering then go ahead, it's just going to be a lot of work to collate all that data. Otherwise we can't force a job on somebody, this RP is all about people volunteering to pitch in what they can, either historical knowledge, economic adjudication, drawing maps or whatever.

This site's fairly useful for £/$ rates: http://eh.net/hmit/exchange/

Just enter the detail in the box on the right, it gives conversions rates from 1791 up to 2000. (eg. one dollar in 1922 is worth 4.4 pounds).

This site converts old money values into modern ones: http://eh.net/hmit/

Just select the right title from the list given. Also on the list is an exchange rate calculator for $ to pretty much every other world currency (eg. $1 is worth 4.77 krone in 1922). From this site you should be able to construct the currency exchange (given that £4.4 to one dollar, there are 20.68 Krone in the pound.). Now that this resource has been discovered any volunteers for a currency type thing would be welcome.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9697973#post9697973


Civil War kicks off in Brazil.

third time lucky....

Is it possible for New-Zion to have a University?

third time lucky....

Is it possible for New-Zion to have a University?

I'm no great authority but I'd say almost certainly yes.

third time lucky....

Is it possible for New-Zion to have a University?
Right. See. I couldn't believe you were asking so simple a question. No offense intended.
For the love of God, of course you can have University. You probably already have half a dozen private or religious institutions, all at each other's throats.

3.) I know a good amount about the northern passage but can the mods give me an estimate, I was thinking 6-7 months out f the year and everything else expensive or impossible.
Any Danish ships found east of Nord Kapp will be destroyed.
This is your First and LAST Warning.
(Really, any foreign ships found east of Nord Kapp will be destroyed. And don't think I'm not looking . . .)

4.) Who is controlling Russia and Germany (Parthini replied to me about islands and Vas replied to me about Germany's request for Iceland (and killed his chances)
I'm controlling Russia and Parthini is controlling Germany. The unification of governments is a slow process, and we announced the beginning of our plans less than a year ago. Parthini's about to reform the militaries of both countries, however, since that's one of the first things that's passing to joint control. Otherwise we consult each other on (theoretically all, in practice most) major decisions.

Ultimately, Parthini will be the final authority on military and intelligence affairs, and I will represent the civilian government, including diplomacy. So Moorington had no real business asking Germany for Russian islands, and even if he'd asked Russia, I still would've laughed at him.

By the way, Leftists in Denmark have risen up in rebellion (check with the War Moderator for confirmation if you doubt me). They've called for aid from the Red Army, which is being mobilized even as we speak . . .

Right. See. I couldn't believe you were asking so simple a question. No offense intended.
For the love of God, of course you can have University. You probably already have half a dozen private or religious institutions, all at each other's throats.

hey i'm just covering all my bases, i don't want to go and piss off the Realism mod's (you)

hey i'm just covering all my bases, i don't want to go and piss off the Realism mod's (you)
Yeah, I know. Sorry. I'm a bear before I've enough coffee - just ask Romania.

GB, or anyone for that matter, can you get on Chatzy? http://www.chatzy.com/684093003041

I'm guessing that since no one has said otherwise, Marie Curie still did all of her experiments with radiation and stuff? The reason I ask is, I'm going to be doing some research into using uranium (which I have a lot of) as a weapon (not nukes, don't worry). More along the lines of the depleted uranium shells used in modern Abrams and Challenger tanks, sort of a kinetic anti-tank rocket, to off-set the fact that South Africa has virtually no military vehicles aside from a few trucks for transport.

Of course, if this requires money, technology, or knowledge that isn't available yet, I'll defer to the mods.

OOC: How much influence does the Albanian player have over the behavior of the ethnic Albanian communities in the Balkans? In other words how much can I RP them?

OOC: How much influence does the Albanian player have over the behavior of the ethnic Albanian communities in the Balkans? In other words how much can I RP them?
As much as I hate to say it - and I'm sure you know how much I hate to say it - you probably have quite a lot of influence over your expatriate communities. I think the Mods should observe, and arbitrate, but in general I think you would have some power to RP them.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9700693#post9700693

I'm guessing that since no one has said otherwise, Marie Curie still did all of her experiments with radiation and stuff? The reason I ask is, I'm going to be doing some research into using uranium (which I have a lot of) as a weapon (not nukes, don't worry). More along the lines of the depleted uranium shells used in modern Abrams and Challenger tanks, sort of a kinetic anti-tank rocket, to off-set the fact that South Africa has virtually no military vehicles aside from a few trucks for transport.

Of course, if this requires money, technology, or knowledge that isn't available yet, I'll defer to the mods.
I haven't researched it as such, but I'd guess that this requires knowledge and technology that isn't available yet. DU weapons are very recent. That much I do know about them, and there are presumably reasons why, for instance, the Nazis didn't use them in WWII.
Moreover, even after Curie, radiation wasn't fully understood. I take the bafflement of American scientists at the radiation poisoning of the survivors at Hiroshima and Nagasaki as sincere. Hell, we (Americans, that is) irradiated our own citizens en masse back in the 50's as part of our "Civil Defense" experiments, so it can be assumed from that alone that we didn't understand what was going to happen even then.
I'd figure DU is probably too heavy for 1920's guns to shoot, anyway.

Since we're on the subject of uranium, I'm guessing that Enrico Fermi, an Italian nuclear scientist, will stay in Italy. Mussolini will not be around to enact anti-Semetic laws, which were the reasons why he left. Historically, he won a nobel prize in 1938, after which he went to the New World. He helped America build the first nuclear reactor. One of the other scientists is Hungarian, I think.

Since we're on the subject of uranium, I'm guessing that Enrico Fermi, an Italian nuclear scientist, will stay in Italy. Mussolini will not be around to enact anti-Semetic laws, which were the reasons why he left. Historically, he won a nobel prize in 1938, after which he went to the New World. He helped America build the first nuclear reactor. One of the other scientists is Hungarian, I think.
Edvard Teller, you might thinking of? Father of the H-Bomb. Scary, scary man. Very anti-Communist. Kind of . . . anti-Human. Scary man.

<snip>

Ah, well. At least I've got uranium to build nukes whenever they get invented.

And Fluff might be thinking of Slizard, though I can't remember his first name.

Leo Szilard? You're right. He was on the Manhattan Project. Another smart Hungarian . . .

Leo Szilard? You're right. He was on the Manhattan Project. Another smart Hungarian . . .

Affirmative. Them East Europeans is smart fellas.

Enrico Fermi is the man I'm thinking of, according to Wikipedia. Wikipedia could possibly be wrong, however.

Affirmative. Them East Europeans is smart fellas.
Why thanks, I am wearing designer genes.

Teller and any other rabid anti communists will have left Europe for probably Britian or the US (probably US as Universities pay better in USA). Otherwise the famous physicists stay in their home countries, but their work is known as it is published.

OOC: There is a significant Ethnic Albanian population in Denmark. What is to become of them?

OOC: There is a significant Ethnic Albanian population in Denmark. What is to become of them?
Are you sure of this?
I've never heard of that, and according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Denmark), it ain't so.

Are you sure of this?
I've never heard of that, and according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Denmark), it ain't so.

the former Yugoslavs listed are all refugees from the Balkans mess of the 90s to present day

Exactly. And it's 0.8%, which I wouldn't consider very significant in a country like Denmark. I mean, that's like, two guys.

OOC: Ok, maybe I made a mistake on Denmarks Ethnic Albanian population, that sort of data from the 1920s is hard to find... But while where talking about the Denmark refugee situation, how many Danes can be expected to flee to Albania (which has offered shelther)?

As a Mod, I'd say very few. Most refugees would go to Belgium, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Burgundy, England, or the United States. Some might go to Italy. I doubt Albania would really occur to any of them. The East/West division of consciousness is experienced as a blind spot in the West, in contrast to the envy we have in the East.
I'm also not even sure how many refugees there'd really be. You must have read how he cracked down on Communists and suspected "Fellow Travelers" with lynchings and show trials. I mean, the Germans right now might not look as bad as you'd think to an ordinary Dane.

Yeah, I know. Sorry. I'm a bear before I've enough coffee - just ask Romania.

HeHe, you can bet on that, I hope that the war in south america don't affect coffee prices much :p

I just got back last night, so have any wars broken out or anything i should know about? And why does Denmark have refugee's?

Denmark got invaded by Germany. In Brazil there is a civil war. A rogue Bolvian colonel took a division to fight in Brazil.

sup Mods, and Germany, my military is at the meager number of 3,500 which is obviously far too small to man pretty much any ship, so i was wondering (pending Germany's permission) if i could purchase a Zepplin and have it fully crewed up?

sup Mods, and Germany, my military is at the meager number of 3,500 which is obviously far too small to man pretty much any ship, so i was wondering (pending Germany's permission) if i could purchase a Zepplin and have it fully crewed up?

ooc
sure, although you might want to start looking at some of the World War I and 20s era aircraft.. they tend to be less expensive to replace when they crash. Zeppelins historically have an awful safety record.

Zeppelins historically have an awful safety record.

wasn't that just down to the hydrogen, and anyway isn't a Zepplin bigger, and therfore can carry more people?

Actually, the hydrogen wasn't nearly as dangerous as people think it was. On the Hindenburg, for instance, it was actually the paint job that exploded. The hydrogen tanks didn't go up until after everybody was already dead.

Actually, the hydrogen wasn't nearly as dangerous as people think it was. On the Hindenburg, for instance, it was actually the paint job that exploded. The hydrogen tanks didn't go up until after everybody was already dead.

:O

wasn't that just down to the hydrogen, and anyway isn't a Zepplin bigger, and therfore can carry more people?

it has more to do with the fact that they are more vulnerable to severe weather than a conventional aircraft, have more surface area vulnerable to high winds, and lack sufficient power to get out of the way of unexpected severe weather. All three US rigid airships, which were basically super Zeppelins similar to what Parthini is using, were lost in severe weather because of those very reasons.

They are also slower than aircraft, and eventually aircraft start having equivilant range and payload. However they are more luxurious (the passenger models) and they are very interesting.

interesting question, how far has helicopter research gotten at this point?

Helicopters are just starting to be developed, the first controllable blight was made in 1916 in Buenos Aries by Raúl Pateras de Pescara, however it was very unstable. They are highly complex machines and costly to use and they only really began being designed and built in the mid-late 40's spurred on by the war.

In my verdict no helicopters until the 40's and only then with intense research and investment. Though of course experimental designs can be operated before then.

Igor Sikorsky built the first really marketable helicopter in 1940. It was never settled, though, whether we or the West got him in this timeline.

interesting question, how far has helicopter research gotten at this point?

Early developments can be found here
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Rotary/early_20th_century/HE2.htm

needless to say, they aren't going to be showing up in the 1920s

However, Autogyros are doable, and began flying in 1923
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogyro

Although their usefulness is restricted to scouting due to their small size

first actual helicopter is in 1934
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_61

can someone give me a link to the invasion or tell me why this all happened?

Germany got pissed because Denmark didn't want to give up Iceland. You can find this on the Denmark page.

can someone give me a link to the invasion or tell me why this all happened?
Check your Telegrams. You can look at the Link in the Danish News Thread.

OOC: Can the mods give a ruling on whether or not the Dutch would be willing to sell the Dutch East Indies to Japan?

OOC: Can the mods give a ruling on whether or not the Dutch would be willing to sell the Dutch East Indies to Japan?

Not to nag, but I had a similar question floating about with me trying to turn Siam into a protectorate by marrying off a Joseon and gaining gradual economic control.

OOC: Can the mods give a ruling on whether or not the Dutch would be willing to sell the Dutch East Indies to Japan?

I asked GB this same question a few weeks ago, and he told me that the Dutch are proud people and wouldn't want to sell off their extremely profitable Dutch East Indies colonies.

The only way to get them would be through war and invasion, I believe.

Korea and Japan.. answers....

Dutch will not sell under any circumstances the Dutch East Indies
Siam will not marry into the Korean royal family.... however... they are willing to marry into the Chinese Imperial family as long as the result does not interfere with their independence. Siam will not be transferred to a foreign power by marriage, that went out centuries ago in their view.

Incidently, the US, British and Dutch have very sizeable investments now in oil production and refining facilities in Dutch Borneo and Sumatra, and British clients Brunei and Sarawk. Needless to say, the US and British governments would be unhappy if somebody invaded the Dutch East Indies.

Korea and Japan.. answers....

Dutch will not sell under any circumstances the Dutch East Indies
Siam will not marry into the Korean royal family.... however... they are willing to marry into the Chinese Imperial family as long as the result does not interfere with their independence. Siam will not be transferred to a foreign power by marriage, that went out centuries ago in their view.

Perhaps a filibustering mission, then? Or straight economic domination?

Perhaps a filibustering mission, then? Or straight economic domination?

Siam was extremely successful in playing the British and Dutch and French off to ensure they remain independent historically. Since they are NPC, I am going to assume their historic competence in that regard.

The US offered the Siamese a chance to join the London Treaty 2 years ago.. I would think if they feel threatened they will sign in order to gain US and British military protection.

Siam was extremely successful in playing the British and Dutch and French off to ensure they remain independent historically. Since they are NPC, I am going to assume their historic competence in that regard.

The US offered the Siamese a chance to join the London Treaty 2 years ago.. I would think if they feel threatened they will sign in order to gain US and British military protection.

Well, I knew this much. No colonies for Korea, then.

Korea and Japan.. answers....

Dutch will not sell under any circumstances the Dutch East Indies
Siam will not marry into the Korean royal family.... however... they are willing to marry into the Chinese Imperial family as long as the result does not interfere with their independence. Siam will not be transferred to a foreign power by marriage, that went out centuries ago in their view.

Incidently, the US, British and Dutch have very sizeable investments now in oil production and refining facilities in Dutch Borneo and Sumatra, and British clients Brunei and Sarawk. Needless to say, the US and British governments would be unhappy if somebody invaded the Dutch East Indies.

Gotcha. Suppose China does invade the Dutch East Indies at some point in the future (say within 10 - 15 years, or when World War II rolls around whenever that be), would this be a possible solution to the US and British unhappiness?

What I'd propose in such a scenario is that the US and British oil companies are to be un-touched, and once the Dutch are kicked out and replaced by Chinese rule, the US and British companies would still operate the same way they do under Dutch rule- the taxes, regulations, etc. will pretty much stay the same. The only noticeable difference would be that the companies would need to put up signs, text, posters, and whatever word stuff they have in both English and Chinese.

the fate of the Dutch East Indies, and the reaction by the US (and probably British, but that is his call) are going to probably depend on the context ... so I guess we will see what happens.

Man, I didn't get a chance to defend my Zepps. German Zepps had actually a pretty good track record when they weren't shot by British Planes. They could also go much further than Planes and were MUCH more comfortable. Something a bunch of rich Jews would prefer :D

And the Hindenburg accident isn't entirely known, but most accidents (other than weather) happened because the oil spilled and then caused the hydrogen to explode. Something that wouldn't happen if it was filled with Helium.

Zeppelins are also faster (I believe) than any planes. Zeppelins go from 50-80mph, where planes go only 40s (I think) Zeppelins also can't carry a whole lot, yet, but they can travel thousands of miles without stopping. In 1917 a Zeppelin flew from Bulgaria to Khartoum and back in 95 hours.

So for passenger and transportation means, Zeppelins are superior to planes at this point. However, for anything other than transport, scouting, or (IMO) Flying Aircraft Carrier, they are useless.

Speaking of Zeppelins, I am thinking of having the Flight Around the World via Graf Zeppelin. Since America is a lot more angry at Germany than was in RL, I need to find a route. So if anyone wants to offer their territory as a refueling station (and perhaps a future passenger route), it would be greatly appreciated. BTW, this is completely peaceful, and will pave the way for intercontinental travel via Air.

Parthini']Speaking of Zeppelins, I am thinking of having the Flight Around the World via Graf Zeppelin. Since America is a lot more angry at Germany than was in RL, I need to find a route. So if anyone wants to offer their territory as a refueling station (and perhaps a future passenger route), it would be greatly appreciated. BTW, this is completely peaceful, and will pave the way for intercontinental travel via Air.

China will of course be happy to refuel the Zeppelin, provided China is given the specifics on how to manufacture helium so that China can produce helium for the Graf Zeppelin refueling.

Parthini']Man, I didn't get a chance to defend my Zepps. German Zepps had actually a pretty good track record when they weren't shot by British Planes. They could also go much further than Planes and were MUCH more comfortable. Something a bunch of rich Jews would prefer :D

And the Hindenburg accident isn't entirely known, but most accidents (other than weather) happened because the oil spilled and then caused the hydrogen to explode. Something that wouldn't happen if it was filled with Helium.

Zeppelins are also faster (I believe) than any planes. Zeppelins go from 50-80mph, where planes go only 40s (I think) Zeppelins also can't carry a whole lot, yet, but they can travel thousands of miles without stopping. In 1917 a Zeppelin flew from Bulgaria to Khartoum and back in 95 hours.

So for passenger and transportation means, Zeppelins are superior to planes at this point. However, for anything other than transport, scouting, or (IMO) Flying Aircraft Carrier, they are useless.

check the military and US threads for aircraft speeds.. even training planes are flying at 100 MPH at this point.

Zeppelins still have a range advantage, and an edge in payload. But that is rapidly diminishing.

I'm curious, when will China be able to produce Helium? I don't think I'll use it for Zeppelins, though. I'm interested in using helium for medicinal purposes like anathesia or in industrial processes to produce technical stuff.

I'm curious, when will China be able to produce Helium? I don't think I'll use it for Zeppelins, though. I'm interested in using helium for medicinal purposes like anathesia or in industrial processes to produce technical stuff.

by a quirk of nature it is only found naturally in one place in the world....Amarillo Texas

Parthini']Speaking of Zeppelins, I am thinking of having the Flight Around the World via Graf Zeppelin. Since America is a lot more angry at Germany than was in RL, I need to find a route. So if anyone wants to offer their territory as a refueling station (and perhaps a future passenger route), it would be greatly appreciated. BTW, this is completely peaceful, and will pave the way for intercontinental travel via Air.

The US will allow the Graf Zeppelin to fly over the US. (California, Nevada,Arizona (to see the Grand Canyon), New Mexico, Texas, Lousiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey and stops are allowed at San Francisco at the Naval air station there (which can handle large Blimps) and Lakehurst, New Jersey. Stops at Hawaii and Manila are also allowed, as they have big enough airfields to handle a Zeppelin as well.

by a quirk of nature it is only found naturally in one place in the world....Amarillo Texas

No kidding? I see helium everywhere- balloons, hospitals, industry, etc. :confused:

No kidding? I see helium everywhere- balloons, hospitals, industry, etc. :confused:

http://www.britannica.com/nobel/micro/713_23.html
http://www.scescape.net/~woods/elements/helium.html (this link even gives a price.. chuckle)

further reading shows that other sources of helium (the ones listed outside of the US) are from the extraction of it from radioactive materials.. which isn't possible until you actually have nuclear energy.

(chuckle).. at least the US has a monopoly in something .. postwar (the 1950s) though drilling in Poland found some

Whoa, its quite a paradox.

It says that Helium is the second most common element in the universe, yet is only found in fewer places than even platinum or gold on Earth, while Earth is awash in hydrogen.

Is there any way to artifically produce hydrogen other than nuclear tech? Or do I have to wait until until 1950's or later when China develops nuclear knowledge and applications?

Whoa, its quite a paradox.

It says that Helium is the second most common element in the universe, yet is only found in fewer places than even platinum or gold on Earth, while Earth is awash in hydrogen.

Is there any way to artifically produce hydrogen other than nuclear tech? Or do I have to wait until until 1950's or later when China develops nuclear knowledge and applications?

apparently not possible without nuclear tech or the right percentage of helium in natural gas (which is found in two places..North America and Poland later on, and also apparently later on in the Sahara when natural gas is found there)

I think Airships are better for me, i need to use as small a runway as possible to maximise for Zionist living space, if it wern't for the fact that US had already given you permission to flyover then i'd let you refuel in Zion as an act of friendship, but yeah just convey that message.

when did this Earth officialy begin?

Britain has declared it's intentions in terms of the Communist threat in Euope here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9708420).

Britain declares that it will stand in to protect the neutrality of any sovereign nation (which has previously declared itself neutral) and looks for othe rnations to support it in this matter.

Oh and VP, I have restarted the intense occupation of Afghanistan to put down the armed rebels there and bring peace to the region at the same thread. You may want to supply the rebels in some way?

Britain has declared it's intentions in terms of the Communist threat in Euope here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9708420).

Britain declares that it will stand in to protect the neutrality of any sovereign nation (which has previously declared itself neutral) and looks for othe rnations to support it in this matter.

Oh and VP, I have restarted the intense occupation of Afghanistan to put down the armed rebels there and bring peace to the region at the same thread. You may want to supply the rebels in some way?
The Danish rebuttal to Britain can be found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9708890&postcount=261).

The Supreme Council will be debating whether or not to supply the mujahideen with equipment and advisers (of Central Asian ethnicity, of course, and Islamic religion - plausible deniablity and all that), pending determination of the stance of the Ottoman government.

when did this Earth officialy begin?

1900?

1900?

¬_¬

Brazilian Civil War (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=446584)

Could someone give me a list of regions and their political leaning for Spain. I need to know which regions were conservative and liberal because a civil war due to the alliance with communists will erupt with three factions, two of which are liberal and support the King. Any information on the political stances of the regions in Spain is welcome.

The Danish rebuttal to Britain can be found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9708890&postcount=261).

The Supreme Council will be debating whether or not to supply the mujahideen with equipment and advisers (of Central Asian ethnicity, of course, and Islamic religion - plausible deniablity and all that), pending determination of the stance of the Ottoman government.
currrently the Ottoman Government does not want to risk a war against Britian or decline in relations by openly supporting any Jihad against Britian, in secret sure we will support it. But right now the Ottomans have their hands full , with facing a upcoming Arab rebellions. So right now we can't do much in that area, intill that unrest subside.

Could someone give me a list of regions and their political leaning for Spain. I need to know which regions were conservative and liberal because a civil war due to the alliance with communists will erupt with three factions, two of which are liberal and support the King. Any information on the political stances of the regions in Spain is welcome.

look up the Spanish Civil War and who controlled what.. The Nationalist areas in 1937 will be conservative here, and the Republicans will be liberal. The Basques could go either way, and the same with the Catalonians. Both have strong seperatist elements.

OOC: Well, Zepps are still more comfortable :) I've stopped using them for anything other than Flying Carriers and Paratroopers, as well as quick transport. I'm going to switch to the Gotha Gs soon, as they're harder to hit.

GB, we should have a race! My Zeppelin vs your plane. We each get a year to make it the best possible and then have a race.

And I will plan out the Graf Zepp's route soon.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=428581&page=3

Rebellion is brewing in Hungary (check the last three or so posts on the page) between the ruling left-leaning centralist social-democrats and the conservative elements. Much of the recent tension is do to the fact that the military and political system is being purged by execution, arrests and forced retirements of conservative leaders.
Meanwhile, the head revolutionaries (aka those that are true socialists or in some isolated cases, true communists) are hoarding tartály's(Hungarian for tanks), airplanes and the recently purchased Chi-Town Type-writers and other modern weapons for units and commanders loyal to them directly or to their cause.

The Reactionaries have most of the public support due to their calls for retaking land stripped from them in the Washington Treaty and returning to the 'true' form of government exemplified in Austria-Hungary. They due not have as much support however as in RL due to the Red Purges never happened meaning much of the population is not as alienated as it was in RL.

The Revolutionaries have the loyality of the military for the most part due to purges and emphasis during training on loyality to the government no matter what. They also have the advantage of having better weapons and several brilliant tacticions.

If you want to get involved in this RP, especially Russia/Germany and Romania please tell me.

Parthini']OOC: Well, Zepps are still more comfortable :) I've stopped using them for anything other than Flying Carriers and Paratroopers, as well as quick transport. I'm going to switch to the Gotha Gs soon, as they're harder to hit.

GB, we should have a race! My Zeppelin vs your plane. We each get a year to make it the best possible and then have a race.

And I will plan out the Graf Zepp's route soon.

The US is a year away from a race. Zeppelins by the 1920s will have a range of about 2,500 miles at a cruising speed of 60 mph.

Africa is sadly vacant in the roleplay at the moment...other than the South Africans (Egypt, Rhodesia, Ethiopia, Morocco and many other nations are still available for this roleplay just as long as the new 'nations' telegram VP's puppet in the proper way and obeys the rules of the role play...)

Olympic Winter Festival in Chamonix-Mont Blanc for 1924, Olympic Games in Paris for 1924, Expo '25 in Dunedin, Olympic Winter Games in Saint Moritz for 1928, Olympic Games in Amsterdam for 1928, World's Fair in Barcelona for 1929.

GB can you get on Chatzy? I have to talk to you about the Civil War comin up as it will be one sided because of the things I have avoided.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_civil_war

GB can you get on Chatzy? I have to talk to you about the Civil War comin up as it will be one sided because of the things I have avoided.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_civil_war

can't do that between 730 AM and 6 PM Pacific Time as at work or on the way home from work.

oh sorry...well check it out and then tell me the things i have avoided as i have the basque and catalan on my side plus id have the alfonsos in power...there are a couple other things that could drastically affect the outcome such as Franco not being a full General and not as widely known.

The US is a year away from a race. Zeppelins by the 1920s will have a range of about 2,500 miles at a cruising speed of 60 mph.

Granted. But should I get rid of most luxuries and drop the planes and machine guns, I bet cruising could be 75 at 3000 miles. Maybe. I haven't gotten to that part in the book. Hell, they JUST crossed the ocean.

The Valencia Gazette

Partido Conservativo Popular, that is the name that the sad men revolting in Zaragoza have called themselves. Already the government has sent 50,000 troops to the city to take control. Many known conservatives have defected to the PCP includeing the once popular Colonel Fransisco Franco. His brother has declared his allegiance to the Partido de Monarcho-Syndicalism and Partido Socialista Obrero Espana. Both popular partys have declared allegiance to the King and Government and the Basque and Catalan seperatists have declared their opposition to the PCP as the current government has given them an equal representation in Parliament and allows limited autonomy. Colonel Franco has declared himself Caudillo de la gente Espana and many of his troops have defected to the PCP with Franco.

The Francist forces led a revolt in Cadiz which effectively took control of the province of Cadiz. The Francist forces are said to number 17,750 and are being bolstered by citizens pledgeing their support. Zaragoza is controlled by the PCP who have officially formed a coalition with the Francists in Cadiz. The total number of their forces is 43,750 and they are marching on Madrid. The 50,000 Government forces will arrive in Zaragoza within two days and 3 cruisers, a destroyer, and 23 torpedo boats have been sent to Cadiz to blockade the port.

Support the Republicans in their fight against the rebel Fascists!

Spanish Civil War [E20] (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=446849)

:: Shortly before noon on September 1st a massive Earthquake with an Estimated magnitude of 8.3 has Struck Tokyo with an Epicenter in Sagami Bay and stretching for miles around. Few details have gotten out since the magnitude of the devastation has prevented any real communication from getting out of the Disaster Area word is that the palace has been damaged and the status of the emperor is unknown at this time. Japan is calling out to the international community to give any aid at all possible to this disaster. A massive firestorm erupted due to the earthquake and the wooden and paper structures incinerated untold thousands.::


OOC: ouch..........

OOC: We need a Kosovo thread because that little headach is not going to go away any-time soon and it has already cluttered the Yugoslavian news thread (much like the civil war in Brazil cluttered the Brazil thread).

OOC: We need a Kosovo thread because that little headach is not going to go away any-time soon and it has already cluttered the Yugoslavian news thread (much like the civil war in Brazil cluttered the Brazil thread).
And all the bickering needs to be resolved by Telegram. And peacefully and respectfully, or there will likely be terrible consequences.

And all the bickering needs to be resolved by Telegram. And peacefully and respectfully, or there will likely be terrible consequences.

OOC: Were working on the OOC by telegram now, "peacefully and respectfully". The Kosovo thread is needed for RP, which will probably take a while (if RL history is any indictation Kosovo could be an issue into the 90s).

OOC: Just to let all the industrialized nations know, Japan will be rebuilding a thouroghly modern city and no structure of wood paper will be built even temprorarily in the rebuilding scheme. Steel, Concrete and Glass.

Soooooo for anyone interested Japan is modernizing two major cities and probably use this as an excuse to go after other cities. Lots of lucrative construction contracts.

OOC: Just to let all the industrialized nations know, Japan will be rebuilding a thouroghly modern city and no structure of wood paper will be built even temprorarily in the rebuilding scheme. Steel, Concrete and Glass.

Soooooo for anyone interested Japan is modernizing two major cities and probably use this as an excuse to go after other cities. Lots of lucrative construction contracts.

Hmm. I believe China is going to have an earthquake like Japan in 1927 or so, correct?

ya and its gonna kill something like 200,000 people. Xining, China. mine killed so many because the watermains decide to break when the armament factories exploded and turning the city into a giant fireball. Kinda a prelude to what would have happened to tokyo in 1945

and a year after that after that you have a drought that supposedly kills 3,000,000 and then a flood that kills 3.7 mil in 1931

ya and its gonna kill something like 200,000 people. Xining, China. mine killed so many because the watermains decide to break when the armament factories exploded and turning the city into a giant fireball. Kinda a prelude to what would have happened to tokyo in 1945

and a year after that after that you have a drought that supposedly kills 3,000,000 and then a flood that kills 3.7 mil in 1931

I'm curious, though. With the dam building programs, wouldn't the flood damage be minimized? Sure- there will be damage, but not multi-million deaths.

BTW, you remind me of someone from Apolyton.net, the site I frequented before coming to NS.

I'm curious, though. With the dam building programs, wouldn't the flood damage be minimized? Sure- there will be damage, but not multi-million deaths.

BTW, you remind me of someone from Apolyton.net, the site I frequented before coming to NS.


sorry I never heard of Apolyton.net The only forum I ever frequented before this one was Mogusland and DSMTuners

Have the Venezuelan elections happened yet?

forgot about it. All the mods really need to do is rule on it.

A little something for those countries with big economies who are looking to out-source their factories to somewhere else. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9726109&postcount=12)

forgot about it. All the mods really need to do is rule on it.

Colombia, just announce when the elections are being held, and create some parties

Colombia, just announce when the elections are being held, and create some parties

I already posted the parties in the occupation thread...

I already posted the parties in the occupation thread...

had to hunt for the thread, but results are posted, and were determined randomly with some adjustments to reflect attitudes and timeline occurances.

Communists got no seats. You're killing me, here.

We should probably rule on Denmark soon, too.

Communists got no seats. You're killing me, here.

We should probably rule on Denmark soon, too.

my guess would be something similar, but the Socialists getting what the Liberals got in Venezuela, and the Communists getting the seats that the Colombian Annexation party got.

Yeah I posted two parties in my diplomatic thread prretty much Military or Capitalist.

[OoC: There's a huge background to this in the Yugoslavian Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440871&page=8&pp=15)]

You cannot predict with such certainty the outcome of a military campaign. Do not even try to pretend to me that this is possible. You are evading justice and obstructing the peace process in an attempt to illegally seize the historically Serbian land of Kosovo. You have not answered any of the Council's concerns openly or honorably. The only obstruction to a solution is Tirana, which protects its terrorists behind the human shields of Albanian refugees. It sickens me, frankly.

You will permit French peacekeepers to do their jobs - which is to keep the peace, by effectively dealing with threats to it. Or the consequences will be dire for the current Albanian Government.

The Mediterranean Squadron of the Red Fleet is already returning from Spain to blockade the Albanian coast.

If you refuse, Red Army units will be ordered to fire on any Albanian that comes within range of our guns. After all, any of them might be a terrorist, and we must do whatever we can to keep the peace. And let me assure you, Mr. President, the range of our guns is long.

This is your final warning. Moscow has lost all patience with your obstinacy.

- Premier N.I. Bukharin, Union of Social-Democratic Republics

War called off at the last minute. Yay!

TO: Moskva, Russia
FROM: Bruxelles, Belgium

Premier Bukharin:

In light of your recent message against the Republic of Albania, The Federal Republic of Belgium has become quite anxious as to what course of action your government will take.

For the past few years, Belgian investors have invested heavily within Albanian markets to promote a more profitable and prosperous climate within the area, requiring millions of francs worth of investment and development. In the event of war, this assets would be greatly endangered and cost Belgian investors a large sum to replace in the event that they are siezed and/or destroyed.

Thus, we now appeal to you and to the people of Russia, to seek a more peaceful resolution to this ongoing crisis. After all, it is always in the best interest of all nations that our world remains at peace and the lives of the innocent are spared.

Signed,

Antonie Martinuqe
Foriegn Minister
The Federal Republic of Belgium

Upon the declaration of Russia's ultimatium, Belgian investors began to feverishly pull their assets out of Albanian markets. Within a matter of hours, hundreds of millions of Francs that had been invested in Albania were now gone or in the process of being removed.

I'm curious, seeing as I haven't posted anything related to Chinese development lately- as I'm under the assumption that everyone knows what I'm doing...

1. China is to standardize the education system in attempts to match the US education system with multi-tiered school systems. Elementary, Middle, and High schools, and Colleges + Universities.

2. China is trying to modernize its language into two languages, the traditional one and the short-hand one for educational. engineering, and scientific research purposes. The traditional language will be spoken in the home, and in all governmental functions to stymize all spy and espionage efforts, while the second language will help accelerate education, science research, and engineering efforts with its simplified language and short-hand.

3. China is undertaking damming programs to help control floods and improve farming efficiency with irrigation. This should give China with some more employment, which in turn should allow more Chinese to buy consumer goods and luxuries.

4. China is attempting to build electrical power plants so that electrification of Shanghai, Canton, Peking, Tienstin, Luo Yang, and other major Chinese cities can take place. This will be my first stage of "Electrification".


Is there anything else that needs to be covered? :confused:

TO: Moskva, Russia
FROM: Bruxelles, Belgium

Premier Bukharin:

In light of your recent message against the Republic of Albania, The Federal Republic of Belgium has become quite anxious as to what course of action your government will take.

For the past few years, Belgian investors have invested heavily within Albanian markets to promote a more profitable and prosperous climate within the area, requiring millions of francs worth of investment and development. In the event of war, this assets would be greatly endangered and cost Belgian investors a large sum to replace in the event that they are siezed and/or destroyed.

Thus, we now appeal to you and to the people of Russia, to seek a more peaceful resolution to this ongoing crisis. After all, it is always in the best interest of all nations that our world remains at peace and the lives of the innocent are spared.

Signed,

Antonie Martinuqe
Foriegn Minister
The Federal Republic of Belgium

Upon the declaration of Russia's ultimatium, Belgian investors began to feverishly pull their assets out of Albanian markets. Within a matter of hours, hundreds of millions of Francs that had been invested in Albania were now gone or in the process of being removed.

Oops. That was unintended. Oh well. Not my country.
You see what happens, Amestria, when you engage in brinksmanship without being able to back it up? Sorry.

The Albanian State Bank urges investors not to with-draw their assets.

OOC: I was not engaging in brinksmanship.

according to Albania their country is destabilized, full of terrorists, they have no military strong enough to force them out, they have around 100,000 refugees in their nation....i would not keep any investments in a nation like that. But of course all of this could be solved if Albania actually started caring about what happened to their people.

OOC: Yugoslavia does not help the situation by scaring away investors.

Albania does not help the situation by denying peacekeepers permission to defeat the rebels.

Parthini: TG'd you.

OOC: And now ladies and gentelmen we know how thankless the U.N.'s job is.

Albania considers the KLA an internal problem and wishes to deal with it it's own way. The Germans have scared the hell out of them by making threatening statements. They also feel the peace-keepers have acceded their authority and our behaving in a non-reasonable manner.

Yeah...because the government is being stubborn and is refusing to co-operate with the effort to stabilize the country. Plus you yourself said that the Albanian government is unable to deal with it.

OOC: They were unable to deal with it due to current circumstances, the refugees. They were planning for a diplomatic solution to the problem; weaken the KLA by sending the refugees back to Kosovo and then buying them off (with the exception of the leadership which the government considers dangerous). They still intend to go through with their plan, and as far as they are concerned the peace-keepers are the ones destabalizing the country by pushing the rebels into the mountains (were the government can no longer keep track of them).

And it's been explained that the refugees cannot, at this point, return to Kosovo.

'sup, how can i get more Zionists?

Ban contraceptives?

lol, i meant how do i make Zion seem more appealing to other Jews?

Force circumcisions?

¬_¬

Just a question for the war mods, when are you available/willing to oversee another rebellion? I know you guys are involved or just were involved in several, so I want to make sure that when I start my rebellion, you guys are available to moderate it without overwhelming you.

Just a question for the war mods, when are you available/willing to oversee another rebellion? I know you guys are involved or just were involved in several, so I want to make sure that when I start my rebellion, you guys are available to moderate it without overwhelming you.

any chance you can wait until wednesday?

OOC: They were unable to deal with it due to current circumstances, the refugees. They were planning for a diplomatic solution to the problem; weaken the KLA by sending the refugees back to Kosovo and then buying them off (with the exception of the leadership which the government considers dangerous). They still intend to go through with their plan, and as far as they are concerned the peace-keepers are the ones destabalizing the country by pushing the rebels into the mountains (were the government can no longer keep track of them).

what efforts has Albania made to house the 100,000 refugees in their country?

i think they put them in some area that can support 15,000 people, with little in the way of roads or rail to supply them. At least thats what they keep saying to make us feel bad :(

updates to the fighting in Brazil, Albania/Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and Spain provided.

All are nasty little wars. Terror and murder have become weapons of war in all four places.

i think they put them in some area that can support 15,000 people, with little in the way of roads or rail to supply them. At least thats what they keep saying to make us feel bad :(

They are there because they crossed the border and the Yugoslavian government has so far refused there return (Albania has a very small population, one has to remember that RL's three million Albanians was the result of communist policy, such as banning birth control). Well Albania has had enough and are sending those who want to return back! Those who do not want to return are being taken to the coasts. If Yugoslavia does not wish the return of it's own citizens, to bad, they are going back anyway!

updates to the fighting in Brazil, Albania/Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and Spain provided.

All are nasty little wars. Terror and murder have become weapons of war in all four places.

you sure you updated the spanish civil war because i dont see it?

OOC: The Albanian player refuses to recognize the French/German actions because they are not realistic:

1. It takes a week for paris to talk to it's peace-keepers (no telegraph lines in the North Eastern Mountains).

2. Germany did not try poltical pressure.

3. Albania did not touch the railroad, only made their intentions known to take it in January and then backed down.

4. The French will see little government pressence in the Eastern Mountains and know the Albanian government is not lieing when they say "that area is byound their control.

5. This current conflict could not result in armed conflict, it would be unrealistic for it to esculate further.

OOC: The Albanian player refuses to recognize the French/German actions because they are not realistic:

1. It takes a week for paris to talk to it's peace-keepers (no telegraph lines in the North Eastern Mountains).

2. Germany did not try poltical pressure.

3. Albania did not touch the railroad, only made their intentions known to take it in January and then backed down.

4. The French will see little government pressence in the Eastern Mountains and know the Albanian government is not lieing when they say "that area is byound their control.

5. This current conflict could not result in armed conflict, it would be unrealistic for it to esculate further.

You are not allowed to make this decision yourself. A Moderator must rule on what has happened. Obviously, I'm too involved in the RP, so I must recuse myself, but I have TG'd Galveston Bay, whose ruling on the matter will be Final.

OOC: While I'm at it.

6. The French are peace-keepers and they cannot simply march into Tirana, they are in the Eastern Mountains. By the time Parliament was done debating the dispute would have passed.

7. The railroad was a matter of interanl politics and Germany over-reacted/ did nothing to solve what was essientialy a trade dispute. They instead threatened war, they only threaten war (and did not try to convince the Albanian courts they were wrong).

8. Everyone would know that moving against the Albanian government would only help the KLA (boost its support).

9. Had the Germans tried to cross the border they would have been mowed down by machine gun and artillary fire from entrenced postions!

10. War would cut off aid to the refugees and they would all starve.

11. Russia sent a fleet to blockade Albania to stop Italian troops which were not comming as Albania explained. The blockade would have taken to long to set up and by that time it would be clear no Italian troops were comming and the Albanian government was telling the truth!

12. This all takes place in a two week period, much to fast in for it to be realistic, especially with delays in communication and 1920s tech.

13. Everyone has been acting like the Albanian government and rebels are one, but they are not (they are just controled by the same person to make it easier on the mods>). Everyone has thus been unfair to me.

14. The French government, although Socialist, would not overthrow the Democratic government of Albania because it displeased the Germans.

15. It would take about a week (after the two weeks of talk) to get the spread out French force recollected.

16. The only reason everyone declared war was the railroad dispute, not a realistic conflict point. Also Albania backed down, within 24 hours (telegram to Berlin) and thus would have avoided conflict. The French parliament would have moved onto other bussiness and the Germans would have stood down. Because it would take three weeks for the French to get ready, war would not have broke out!

Everyone has thus been unfair to me.

Not me. ;)

Not me. ;)

Not you ;) , Arent you the supreme mod. how about you rule so we can get this issue finished.

I need answers to several questions

1. How do i convince more Jews to come to Zion?

2. what date did this RP start?

3. how many Zepplins would a nation like Zion be able to purchase and maintain?

please answer, and as tempting as it is don't give me answers which are trying to be funny, they're just making me get pissed.

1. How do i convince more Jews to come to Zion?

Nationalistic/Ethnic/Religious Propoganda should do the trick.

2. what date did this RP start?

January 1900, I believe.

Yeah I am changing my country to something else since Denmark is gone. I never really got how I was supposed to join? So can some kind soul point me in some accurate direction. The group of people I want to be is one of the groups in the Civil War in Spain. If that is open. So someone point....

1. Armies can put up their own telegraph wires as they move. It's a simple operation of running the appropriate wires back and tieing them into the telegraph system, so it would not take a "week" to talk with the government. (And if you won't accept that, then consider that we have planes which can take a message from Albania to Yugoslavia where there are permenant telegraph wires in amtter of hours.).

There is also the time it takes the Parliament to meet, face it Albania would have answered the Germans before hand. You want a war for OOC reasons.


7. Umm, what exactly did you expect Germany to do? Your courts already ruled that the railway was not "German property" and any challenge he made against that decision would be going up against your courts, which would be decidedly unpartial.

I did not expect them to actually go to war over a railroad!


8. No we wouldn't. Explain this logic.

Attacking the Democratic government of Albania for no reason would only legitamize nationalist forces (plus the government would probaly ally with them/the 20,000 Albanian militia men who would take to the hills would work with them.



10. It might, that's true. Does it neccessarily mean our governments care?


The reason your government is there is to save lives! Your waging a war for OOC reasons!

Your government is only there for peacekeeping, not to wage war because of a dispute with the Germans.



12. Telegraphs move atthe speed of sound, at least. Then of course they must be taken by hand to the recipient, but it's pretty fast.

Yes so I would answer the Germans before they mobalized and before the French parliament had time to meet.


13. OOC we know this to be true and you have repeatedly told us OOC. However, our IC governments might not see it that way since your government has been, in general, uncooperative.

The French peace-keepers would clearly see that the Albanian government is unable to project power in the Eastern Mountains at present (with the refugee problem). And being uncooperative is not a reason for a war (particaly with Italy which has made clear they will defend Albania)


14. We can go to war whenever we want for whatever reasons, fabricated or true. You can't dictate what our government would or would not do.

It has to be realisticaly RP, in this case it was not, there are too many issues concerning time and realism (plus I do not want a war!)


15. They are as spread out as a division normally is when defending a front during a war. .

That is impossible in the Albanian mountains, they are spread out in rough areas with narrow paths and deep valleys!


16. The germans declared war after you refused to back down. You then backed down aftr a decleration of war had been issued. You are not a world power. Stop acting like one.
The issue would have been resolved before the Germans fully mobalized. The Germans declaring war for every little offense is unrealistic and just ruins the game! And I'm not being allowed to behave as a minor power! The smallest action I take is met with threats of WAR WAR WAR!

There is also the time it takes the Parliament to meet, face it Albania would have answered the Germans before hand. You want a war for OOC reasons.

You'd be suprised how fast a government can move if it wants to.

I did not expect them to actually go to war over a railroad!

You didn't expect them to go to war over a vital part of one of their priniciple trade routes?

Attacking the Democratic government of Albania for no reason would only legitamize nationalist forces (plus the government would probaly ally with them/the 20,000 Albanian militia men who would take to the hills would work with them.

last tiem I checked the KLA were not Albanian nationalists. They are trying to get an independent Kosovo.

The reason your government is there is to save lives! Your waging a war for OOC reasons!

The French are waging the war in the interest of saving the lives of both Serbian and Albanian civilians.

Your government is only there for peacekeeping, not to wage war because of a dispute with the Germans.

We are there to keep the peace, but you consistently block at us at every turn, making excueses and dithering. We've made the decision to remove the elements keeping us from accomplishing our task.


The French peace-keepers would clearly see that the Albanian government is unable to project power in the Eastern Mountains at present (with the refugee problem). And being uncooperative is not a reason for a war (particaly with Italy which has made clear they will defend Albania)

Really? The French see a rather inept and incomptent government attempting to cover their ineptness with excuses.

Furthermore, the Italians can enter the war if they want, but they'll be facing myself, Germany, Yugoslavia, and Russia.

It has to be realisticaly RP, in this case it was not, there are too many issues concerning time and realism (plus I do not want a war!)

One RL day=one or two game months. How's that for time?

War does not always come when you want it.

That is impossible in the Albanian mountains, they are spread out in rough areas with narrow paths and deep valleys!

Good! That means they are actually gathered in several large areas as they guard the few roads and trails through the mountains.


The issue would have been resolved before the Germans fully mobalized. The Germans declaring war for every little offense is unrealistic and just ruins the game! And I'm not being allowed to behave as a minor power! The smallest action I take is met with threats of WAR WAR WAR!

I will reiterate: time is somewhat fluid. A few minutes in real life can equal days in-game. Taking a economically vital rail-line is hardly "very little offense". Besides, countries go to war over little offenses. Some sultan once declared war on the British because the British wanted to play cricket on his land. The British won in a half-hour.

As for your last bit..Wecome to being a tiny nation squeezed between several large powerful nations.

OOC: Just in case GB rule against me. This will happen should the French?German response be ruled valid (though it is not!)

IC: In the event of war the 11,000 troops careing for refugees will assume positions of defense in the border fortifications.

The Trans-Eurasian railway will be shelled and destroyed by border artillary.

The nation's 20,000 National Militia will be called up and take to the hills/mountains, harrassing any enemy forces (it has been in the process of being trained and armed for year).

The Government will declare martial law, suspend the Consititution, and draft every adult in Tirana and Vlore. They will be issued weapons (Albania has been buying weapons from Italy for about a year) and man the fortifications around the cities (which Italy has constructed). All food will be gathered up from the countryside. All roads leading to the coast will be mined (land mines have been purchased from Italy!)

Government officals in the Eastern Mountains will join forces with the KLA and launch an immediate attack on the French rear. 4000 Albanian soldiers will march up from the South to help them.

The German and French Embassies will be stormed in Tirana and the ambassadors taken prisoner (to be killed if Tirana is attacked).

There will be popular resistence. People will throw themselves down in frount of the French troops and take part in sabotage.

You didn't expect them to go to war over a vital part of one of their priniciple trade routes?


It was not a vital trade route and they had closed it down!


last tiem I checked the KLA were not Albanian nationalists. They are trying to get an independent Kosovo.


They are fighting for a Greater Albania. They declared Kosovo independent because Albania would not declare Kosovo Albanian territory.


The French are waging the war in the interest of saving the lives of both Serbian and Albanian civilians.


You will kill thousands of Albanian civilans.


We are there to keep the peace, but you consistently block at us at every turn, making excueses and dithering. We've made the decision to remove the elements keeping us from accomplishing our task.


We have done nothing to block you!


Really? The French see a rather inept and incomptent government attempting to cover their ineptness with excuses.


This government is the best Albania has ever had, the French will not get one they like even if they conqure the country!


One RL day=one or two game months. How's that for time?


The dispute happened and was resolved in 5 minutes!


Good! That means they are actually gathered in several large areas as they guard the few roads and trails through the mountains.


No, it means your spread out over a large area!


Anyway you are an idiot who is ruining the game for me! I hate you and after this is over I most likly will quite! You are a bastard!

I'm not even going to bother any more. When you can handle this like an adult instead of hurling insults come talk to me.

Mods, please rule on this as quickly as possible. I'm sorry this got out of hand.

I'm not even going to bother any more. When you can handle this like an adult instead of hurling insults come talk to me.

Mods, please rule on this as quickly as possible. I'm sorry this got out of hand.

You should be sorry! This is all your fault! I tried to tell you that we should move on but you said "too bad"! Furthermore why would the French public support a war against Italy and Albania right out of the Blue? Why?

Amestria, you're completely out of line. Direct insults and abuse of other players will not be tolerated.

OOC: Amestria, now you're just being childish. Everything Jensai, Parthini, and VP have done has been perfectly legitimate, if somewhat aggresive. You keep complaining that they aren't being realistic, but let me be blunt. Albania is nothing. Yes, you're a lot better off than you were in RL in the twenties, but that really isn't saying very much. You are not a power of any sort, and you need to realize that and accept the consequences of your actions. You would do better to try and play the Great Powers around you off of one another, rather than trying to dictate terms to them.

OOC: Amestria, now you're just being childish. Everything Jensai, Parthini, and VP have done has been perfectly legitimate, if somewhat aggresive. You keep complaining that they aren't being realistic, but let me be blunt. Albania is nothing. Yes, you're a lot better off than you were in RL in the twenties, but that really isn't saying very much. You are not a power of any sort, and you need to realize that and accept the consequences of your actions. You would do better to try and play the Great Powers around you off of one another, rather than trying to dictate terms to them.

OOC: I'm not a mod or anything, but he's right.

If you just play cool around them and let them have their way without letting them completely control you, then in another two decades you'll be in a pretty good position. You'll be on good terms with everyone, you'll have a pretty good economy, and your military won't be half bad. You could probably start demanding things THEN. But not now. Patience is a virtue.

a coup has occured in Albania

OOC: Hey! I think the Left Hand is a good name!

Anyways, first thing I did was drop 4 companies of Stosstruppen Paratroopers into Tirana. I did it with Denmark and it worked rather well. And who says my diplomats won't have guns?

And you know what, I am GERMANY. I LIKE war. WAR is LIFE. There is a reason the Americans called them the Huns. And I'm only doing to Europe what America is doing to South America.

As Supreme Moderator, I'm getting somewhat appalled at the arguing going on here in E20.

First, I would like to see proof of Albania / Amestria's allegations regarding the railroad and Albania not blocking French peace-keeping efforts. I would like to see proof in RP posts, please.

Second, the same goes for the French + German side. I would like to see proof of their intentions regarding Albania IC'wise. In other words, France claims that Albania is blocking peace-keeping efforts, and I'd like to see proof of that. Ditto for Germany and its "economically vital" railroad.


I'd like to hear both sides and the proof of RP they may have out of interest of fairness.

Beginning of the conflict in Kosovo (Yugoslavian Thread) (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440871&page=4&pp=15)

The Kosovo Conference (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=447118&page=1&pp=15)

Enjoy.

In this post: link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9730508&postcount=111)

Albania first refuses to allow my peace-keeping troops tp pursue the rebels into Albania. However, he later gives in.

link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9730781&postcount=116)

Once again Albania attempts to find a "diplomatic" solution with the rebels, despite the atrocities commited by them.

In these threads:

Kosovo Conference (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=447118&page=1&pp=15)

Yugoslavian News Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440871&page=9&pp=15)

He continually pushes for the refugees to be sent back to Yuoglavia, whcih would destabalize our efforts. There is still resentment and anger from the Serbs about the rebel massacres and sending them back could potentially result in reprisals against the refugees.

Furthermore, on page 10 of the Yugoslavian news thread he continues to refuse German units entry, despite the fact that they would help speed the elmination of the rebels.

In this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9735635&postcount=45) post from his news thread he siezes the Trans-Eurasian rail line, owned by Germany. Later on in the thread he dissmisses a German ultimatum and then back-pedals once war is declared. Then we get into the big argument about wether it is realistic or not and we end up here.

Sorry for the fuss Sharina.

Amestria is out. He's been consistently abusive, argumentative, disrespectful, and unlike me he won't even admit it. And he just challenged the War Moderator's ruling, which is explicitly against E20 Policy. That in itself earns him the boot, even without everything else.

Amestria is no longer allowed to post in E20 Threads.

1. Germany threatened to over-throw Albania's government! There was no way Albania would let those troops in!

2. The Albanian government has little power in the areas the KLA now occupies.

3. Although the Albanian government delayed, it has let the peace-keepers in and given them free reign.

4. The railroad was not taken over. The Albanian government announced they would take it over in January.

5. The refugees are threatened in about one to two months with starving and they are trying to free up their military in case the rebels decide to attack the government!

You are no longer allowed to post here. A message will be sent to the Forum Moderators, asking that you no longer be allowed in the Forums AT ALL if you continue. Goodbye.

In this post: link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9730508&postcount=111)

Albania first refuses to allow my peace-keeping troops tp pursue the rebels into Albania. However, he later gives in.

link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9730781&postcount=116)

Once again Albania attempts to find a "diplomatic" solution with the rebels, despite the atrocities commited by them.

In these threads:

Kosovo Conference (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=447118&page=1&pp=15)

Yugoslavian News Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440871&page=9&pp=15)

He continually pushes for the refugees to be sent back to Yuoglavia, whcih would destabalize our efforts. There is still resentment and anger from the Serbs about the rebel massacres and sending them back could potentially result in reprisals against the refugees.

Furthermore, on page 10 of the Yugoslavian news thread he continues to refuse German units entry, despite the fact that they would help speed the elmination of the rebels.

In this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9735635&postcount=45) post from his news thread he siezes the Trans-Eurasian rail line, owned by Germany. Later on in the thread he dissmisses a German ultimatum and then back-pedals once war is declared. Then we get into the big argument about wether it is realistic or not and we end up here.

Sorry for the fuss Sharina.

Jensai, I appreciate you taking the time to look through the relevant threads for the proof that I requested. I also appreciate your patience with this whole affair.

I have yet to see any proof provided by Albania / Amestria to counter these points that you made, Jensai. I am leaning towards Vas Pokhoronim's ruling, as the evidence presented aganist him is substantial, yet the counter-evidence has yet to materialize.

Sharina, check your TGs.

Changed over the year, updated the links to players, modified application policy and made war policy and realism policy a little clearer.

I will overhaul the Main Post soon to make procedures for appealing Mod rulings clearer, and also to make it clearer under what circumstances that is appropriate or inappropriate.

Danish Elections (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9739307&postcount=57)

I need answers to several questions

1. How do i convince more Jews to come to Zion?

2. what date did this RP start?

3. how many Zepplins would a nation like Zion be able to purchase and maintain?

please answer, and as tempting as it is don't give me answers which are trying to be funny, they're just making me get pissed.

alright question number one is answered, but i still need to know, what date in this year, 2005, did this RP officially begin?

and how many Zepplins would New Zion be able to afford and maintain, maybe i should just ask Parthini this in his Diplomacy thread

another one, i'm thinking of going red, New Zion is already leftist and has had quite a lot of dealings with Red countries, also i believe Karl Marx was a jew though i cannot be too sure, I'm not gonna jump on the bandwagon and have a mass civil war, instead i'm planning on going the political path, do any of the Mods see a problem with that?

Karl Marx was from a Jewish family but his father had converted for business reasons and he himself was an atheist.

A very large percentage of the Leftist leadership of the USDR (following the historical example of the Soviet Union) is also composed of Jewish atheists.

One of the main Brazilian Rebel groups, the Integralists, is led by a rabid anti-Semite (so anti-Semitism and anti-Communism are already beginning to become associated). Same with the Falangists, in Spain.

I, for one, think a democratically elected Labor government of Zion is not our of the question, but then again, I'm Red.

oh Zion has already elected the Labour party, that's who Chaim is in charge of, but I was wondering about going all red

I also need permission to come up with a name as i can't find (apart from Chaim) any prominant Red Zionist's who would be alive and grown up enough to run, and Chaim was pushing it when i put him up in 1915, i'll do more research but if i can't find any names i want somthing to fall back on.

OOC:

Hiyas guys, I thought I'd give you guys a heads up on what happened today on my big day. I just got home from the hospital 45 minutes ago, so I thought I'd drop you guys a line before I head off to my first intensive therapy session.



When I first went in this morning, I was a nervous wreck and I couldn't sleep well last night. I had no idea what to expect and what would happen. I had a meeting with Dr. Merchant, my implant doctor, and we discussed a general plan for the next few weeks. After that, I went to see the audiologist for the actual implant activation process.

I sat there, waiting to hear something. I thought I'd have a sensation like a pinch, a prick, or a bang. It didn't come, so I got worried. Suddenly, I got this odd sensation all over my right ear- feels like a powerful tickle / buzz that was regular like an heartbeat. I told the audiologist about that sensation, and she told me that was a good sign. Oh my god, I didn't realize *that* was me hearing stuff for the very first time until like 5 minutes later, when a light went off in my head, "Oh, that!".

Boy, I felt dumb at that time. Haha. Afterwards, the audiologist did some tweaking and testing to create a first computer program that allows the microphone to pick up different sounds and transmit them into my implant device under my skin (the one that the surgery was all about). The audiologist told me that I have to come back in next week for further tweakings.

After I finished the whole hospital thing, and I went outside, I was overwhelmed with a near constant tickling / buzzing sensation. I had to turn down the volume on my implant so that it would become more manageable. I went to have a late lunch at a seafood restaurant called "No Name" right on the wharf in Boston. I jumped every time I set down a dish, the glass of water, my fork and knife, and even when I chewed my lunch. I also got jittery when I moved the ketchup bottle or when other people slid their chairs backwards. That was only the beginning- me being startled by the very things I do everyday.

Its going to be a bit before I can hear music. I can hear sounds now, but right now they're all the same to me. I can't really tell the difference between a knock on the table from a person's voice talking. I probably will be able to hear music within a couple of weeks when I learn how to distinguish between sounds, tone, and high / low pitches.

OOC:

Hiyas guys, I thought I'd give you guys a heads up on what happened today on my big day. I just got home from the hospital 45 minutes ago, so I thought I'd drop you guys a line before I head off to my first intensive therapy session.



When I first went in this morning, I was a nervous wreck and I couldn't sleep well last night. I had no idea what to expect and what would happen. I had a meeting with Dr. Merchant, my implant doctor, and we discussed a general plan for the next few weeks. After that, I went to see the audiologist for the actual implant activation process.

I sat there, waiting to hear something. I thought I'd have a sensation like a pinch, a prick, or a bang. It didn't come, so I got worried. Suddenly, I got this odd sensation all over my right ear- feels like a powerful tickle / buzz that was regular like an heartbeat. I told the audiologist about that sensation, and she told me that was a good sign. Oh my god, I didn't realize *that* was me hearing stuff for the very first time until like 5 minutes later, when a light went off in my head, "Oh, that!".

Boy, I felt dumb at that time. Haha. Afterwards, the audiologist did some tweaking and testing to create a first computer program that allows the microphone to pick up different sounds and transmit them into my implant device under my skin (the one that the surgery was all about). The audiologist told me that I have to come back in next week for further tweakings.

After I finished the whole hospital thing, and I went outside, I was overwhelmed with a near constant tickling / buzzing sensation. I had to turn down the volume on my implant so that it would become more manageable. I went to have a late lunch at a seafood restaurant called "No Name" right on the wharf in Boston. I jumped every time I set down a dish, the glass of water, my fork and knife, and even when I chewed my lunch. I also got jittery when I moved the ketchup bottle or when other people slid their chairs backwards. That was only the beginning- me being startled by the very things I do everyday.

Its going to be a bit before I can hear music. I can hear sounds now, but right now they're all the same to me. I can't really tell the difference between a knock on the table from a person's voice talking. I probably will be able to hear music within a couple of weeks when I learn how to distinguish between sounds, tone, and high / low pitches.

Thats amazing man. I didn't know you had trouble hearing but its so cool how they can put that into you. Im pleased for you mate :)

OOC:
Snip.
Awesome. Congratulations, and good luck with the new sensation.

Awesome! Man, it's amazing what kind of stuff I take for granted...

w00t! Congratulations my friend and good luck with the therepy. Amazing what we can do in medical science.

OOC: <snip>

Glad to hear it, Sharina!

Yay! Congratulations. I remember when you said you were getting surgery, and now I am very happy for you to be able to get this far.

Spooty: I think for something like New Zion, 3 or 4 dozen Commercial and perhaps a couple of military wouldn't be pushing it too far. You would have to have a very large airbase, but I'm sure Argentina wouldn't mind selling some :)

Then we could start AirJew or something :P

OOC:

Hiyas guys, I thought I'd give you guys a heads up on what happened today on my big day. I just got home from the hospital 45 minutes ago, so I thought I'd drop you guys a line before I head off to my first intensive therapy session.



When I first went in this morning, I was a nervous wreck and I couldn't sleep well last night. I had no idea what to expect and what would happen. I had a meeting with Dr. Merchant, my implant doctor, and we discussed a general plan for the next few weeks. After that, I went to see the audiologist for the actual implant activation process.

I sat there, waiting to hear something. I thought I'd have a sensation like a pinch, a prick, or a bang. It didn't come, so I got worried. Suddenly, I got this odd sensation all over my right ear- feels like a powerful tickle / buzz that was regular like an heartbeat. I told the audiologist about that sensation, and she told me that was a good sign. Oh my god, I didn't realize *that* was me hearing stuff for the very first time until like 5 minutes later, when a light went off in my head, "Oh, that!".

Boy, I felt dumb at that time. Haha. Afterwards, the audiologist did some tweaking and testing to create a first computer program that allows the microphone to pick up different sounds and transmit them into my implant device under my skin (the one that the surgery was all about). The audiologist told me that I have to come back in next week for further tweakings.

After I finished the whole hospital thing, and I went outside, I was overwhelmed with a near constant tickling / buzzing sensation. I had to turn down the volume on my implant so that it would become more manageable. I went to have a late lunch at a seafood restaurant called "No Name" right on the wharf in Boston. I jumped every time I set down a dish, the glass of water, my fork and knife, and even when I chewed my lunch. I also got jittery when I moved the ketchup bottle or when other people slid their chairs backwards. That was only the beginning- me being startled by the very things I do everyday.

Its going to be a bit before I can hear music. I can hear sounds now, but right now they're all the same to me. I can't really tell the difference between a knock on the table from a person's voice talking. I probably will be able to hear music within a couple of weeks when I learn how to distinguish between sounds, tone, and high / low pitches.

OOC: W000t!

Great news Sharina! Once you can listen to music, might I suggest the Beatles?

ooc: Good luck with the implants, Sharina. I've heard of No Name Seafood, but never been there. I have had seafood in Boston that is Legal, however.

Great news Sharina! Once you can listen to music, might I suggest the Beatles?

Nooo!

I had this SAME debate on another thread Sharina takes part on, and I suggested either Classical Music or All your base are belong to us!

You have to learn classical music before you can learn the others. It's like the base of all modern music. Then you progress to modern day "music".

"Ride of the Valkeries" is classic and classical lol, other than that go with Rock, Jazz, or something like that...Country(banjo's :D ) and Hip Hop(nice beat though) is just talking with an accent so don't listen to those. Actually experiance everything and then pick whichever you like best.

The Wall by Pink Floyd, it's a classic, i need to go negotiate an airbase deal with Argie.

k, as i'm going red i looked up for some names, the best hit i got was Mátyás Rákosi, currently 32 in RL the Hungarian Communist leader from 1945 to 1956, He also invented the term "salami tactics" - eliminating the opposition slice by slice, is this good with the Mods and with Hungary?

May I play as Norway?

May I play as Norway?

Check the first post of the thread but I think its free.

Congratulations, Comrade Sharina. I remember you saying you had had surgery (or were going to have it). I suggest that you listen to Guns 'N' Roses. Get their greatest hits. Screw Pink Floyd. And the Beatles. And "Ride of the Valkeries."

Also, I suggest Metallica as another band. Get their S&M cd, as it is pretty unique. It's heavy metal with an orchestra. It sounds screwed up, but it's pretty cool.

But this implant raises some other questions, which may or may not be stupid. Also, if they appear offensive to you, I apologize. They don't appear offensive to me, but there are some really sensitive people out there.

You said that you can't really distinguish between sounds, and that you've never heard anything before these implants. So, do you know how to speak? Also, when you read something, do you hear the words in your head? Whenever I read, I sort of pronounce the words within my head.

Hmm... check out some bagpipes, man. Good ones I mean. And don't listen to Scotland the Brave first. It's played too much. Go for Amazing Grace on the Bagpipes. Then listen to Star Wars theme song. I'm working on doing the Imperial Death March for the pipes. (I'm a n00b piper BTW)

Secret IC:
--------------------------------

With the dissolution of the Washington Treaty, and the inevitable large arms race that is believed to occur immediately, the Chinese High Command has decided to attempt a bold new leap forward in naval doctrine. Chinese engineers, scientists, and military tacticians meet in secret in Luo Yang on April 17, 1924, with the attendance of the Chinese Emperor. It was decided that a tremendous leap forward would be necessary to match or surpass the American, British, and Japanese massive naval battleships that would most likely be built in mass quantities in the next decade or two.

Engineers determined that the new Chinese battleship would be required to have massive armor, to deflect most, if not all, conventional weapons in use at the time, including 12 to 14 inch, and possibly even the 16 inch guns. Towards this end, the ship itself will have nearly 1/3 of its total tonnage devoted to armor, an unprecedented amount in the annals of naval history. Some numbers were discussed, with armor thickness ranging between 250mm to as high as 500mm.

Scientists have determined that the amount of armor needed would require a battleship chassis substantially larger than any that have been built, possibly in excess of 45,000 tons. They also made determinations that to drive such a massive chassis, enormous engines and muscle would be required.

Engineers and military tacticans discussed possible armanents on the vessel. They reached an agreement to attempt to develop a 18 inch gun, which would be more than able to punch through the heaviest battleship armor currently in existence, and have the ability to fire further than a 16 inch gun, giving the battleship increased range over its American, British, and Japanese counterparts. It was determined through exhaustive formulae and analysis that the maximum efficient gun barrel on a naval ship would be a 24 inch gun before the shell's weight begins to degrade its own range and efficiency. However, a general consesus was reached that a 24 inch gun would be nigh-impossible to fabricate or develop at this time, and the idea for a 24 inch gun was to be shelved for at least two decades until sufficient technologies could be discovered to even attempt construction of such monstrous cannons. Therefore an agreement was re-affirmed that China will attempt to construct more viable 18 inch cannons instead.

The Emperor then decreed that this new battleship shall be known as the Guozu Battleship to bring forth his will upon China's enemies. He also set a goal for the Guozu battleship to reach 75,000 tons at full load-out. He believes that if such a massive battleship was to be built, it would be an imposing sight, and perhaps could even be used as a pyschological weapon aganist any enemies of China.

Further discussions took place for several more hours before it was decided that China will build three 100,000 ton capacity shipyards capable of constructing such massive beasts. One shipyard would be built in each of the three major port cities of Shanghai, Tianjin, and Guangzhou. The date for the completion of these docks was to be marked for no later than 1926.

Everyone in the conference agrees that having three massive shipyards would give China a much needed boost in naval production of conventional warships, should the need arise for rapid production of warships. A general agreement is also reached that the timetable for the completion of the first Guozu Battle-Battleship (BBB) was to be in the mid-1930's, given the massive undertaking needed to research and construction of such a massive beast.

The top-level secret conference concluded with a bold new determination of China to match or even surpass the major powers of the world, lest it be thrust back into a back-water status, a lesson hard learned from the previous century.

---------------------------------
Revelant information:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9747173&postcount=453

sup France, time to get Andre Breton to write up the Surrealist Manifesto, as small as it seems it will effect loads of things, including Salvador Dali, if he's still alive and well, and as NationStates first Surrealist Realm i demand the Surrealist Manifesto!!!! Vibrating Noweigan Antelopes.

Cross-Post from South African News Thread

In an utterly shocking turn of events, the National Party has emerged victorious in the 1924 election, ending the rule of the Het Volk under Jan Smuts. There are rumors circulating that the leadership of the Het Volk are discussing certain internal reforms in light of this defeat.

James Barry Munnik Hertzog is the new Prime Minister. Hertzog is a staunch republican, and is a stalwart supporter of South African independence from Britain, though he has repeated stated that he will not resort to violence to acheive this end, citing the ultimately useless destruction and carnage during the Second Boer War.

The South African Parliament, the Volksraad [People's Council], contains 130 seats. The breakdown following the election is [percent of national vote/number of seats]:

Partij National
61.2/80
Het Volk
28.3/37
Partij Labour
5.5/7
Unionist Party
5/6

The National Party is the overwhelmingly dominant party, with the HV-UP coalition serving as the opposition.

The era of friendly cooperation with Britain looks to be over...

Spooty brings up a good point. With the lack of time we all have, it seems like we never get around to introducing famous people, other than very famous military. Should we just assume all artists, composers, writers, etc. continue on with their works?

True...what of Syngman Rhee and all of those other famous Koreans?

OOC: I have to pose a question to the Mod, when are we going to have a influnza outbreak, when is it going to happen. That's the question that I want to know.

OOC: I have to pose a question to the Mod, when are we going to have a influnza outbreak, when is it going to happen. That's the question that I want to know.

pretty soon on the influenza outbreak...probably.... however since I have influenza at the moment it will be after that

The US and Morocco are not going to pull out of the territory they seized in Morocco, Spanish Sahara and the Canary Islands by the way. I will post more tomorrow when hopefully I am feeling better.

Ive got to go to bed now as its ten thirty and a school night but Ill be damned if I let you get that without some compensation or at least giving me Ceuta.

pretty soon on the influenza outbreak...probably.... however since I have influenza at the moment it will be after that.
You too, huh? Creepy. Maybe it's the real one this time . . .

Anyway, too late (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9753092&postcount=26). I have a nasty fever myself, and it just makes me more ornery. Besides, I'd hate to disappoint the public. The massive killings won't start til the weekend, anyway. I'm just setting it up.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4308872.stm

Rather scary article that says the Flu Pandemic is related to the Avian Flu that is going around. Might want to take a look. Perhaps have chickens get the flu and then exported to England?

Cross-Posted from India Thread

At this point, really, no-one's too worried, so don't be going around over-reacting. So far as Britain is concerned, it's just a few dozen deaths (most of which London doesn't even know about), and they're pretty much all grimy wogs anyway, with no sense of hygiene. Soldiers dying is more serious, true, but it's only been a few and certainly not enough to justify dispatching doctors from the Mother Country.

As for the Indians, yes, I'm sorry to say, you're screwed. Take comfort though in the fact that we're all screwed. But a quarantine is definitely way premature, and should only follow an investigation, which at this point probably isn't even merited yet. But no government - especially a Third World government with very limited resources - is going to blockade an entire province (especially a productive one during the growing season) after only a few dozen deaths. By that time, of course, it will be too late.

I should have emphasized in my post that the report is in an obscure daily, buried on page four of "Colonial News." Both the British and Indian governments, really, would scarcely be aware of sickness in Kerala (there are so many more serious health problems in India). Of course, by late July it's already spread to England, France, Australia, Southeast Asia, China, Japan, Colombia, Persia, the United States, and parts of Africa. By early August, it will be everywhere. Still, however, I must stress that not many people are dying yet. It's just a nasty Summer Flu, at this point.

Addendum
The truth is, most of us might not even know that the pandemic even began in India, until subsequent investigation after the whole thing blows over. It spreads too quickly, and there are no public health services equivalent to the CDC or WHO at this time to keep track of such things. After all, the real "Spanish Flu" started in Kansas. Contagion itself is still poorly understood, and as I mentioned, at this point the flu is a much lower priority than, say, malaria, or syphilis. That won't actually change until September.

Would it be possible for me to join this as Cuba? I realise that it is currently under control of the USA, but perhaps myself and the American player could come to an arrangement about independence?

Would it be possible for me to join this as Cuba? I realise that it is currently under control of the USA, but perhaps myself and the American player could come to an arrangement about independence?

Cuba is not under US control at this point. Cuba did sign the Pan American treaty (read about that in the RP threads), but is independent. Before joining, you will need to read up on what has happened. Which is a lot of information at this point.

Cuba is not under US control at this point. Cuba did sign the Pan American treaty (read about that in the RP threads), but is independent. Before joining, you will need to read up on what has happened. Which is a lot of information at this point.

Sorry about that. :) I am reading up now on what has been happening, but on the territories picture Cuba appeared to be the same colour as the US, so I misunderstood.

Sorry, that would be me missing it when I did the update. I'll change it now and update the map in a minute. Thanks for pointing it out.

It's Cuba's fault anyway, it shouldn't be so small...!