NationStates Jolt Archive

Frankly, I don't think that changing the time scale would be a very good idea. Wars and negotiations already take almost too long based on time, and speeding up the game would reduce the attention to detail that is paramount to a fun RP.

If we go to 1 week = 2 years, we'd likely have simple negotiations such as treaties take 2-3 years just to ratify, and I know WWI would last at least 8 years just to RP.

In short, the only setting that makes sense is to leave the time scale the way it is.

Why not allow "Slowing" of certain RPs? For example, there are a couple of Alliances that are trying to get going. Why not have time 'slow' down within those RP's. Remember, if its a slow month, one conversation could take one week, so it doesn't make sense to me that there conversation takes a year (in RP'ing terms), other stuff happens, the conversation is just a segment of it. I'm not sure if I'm making myself to clear, but oh well.

Czech nationalist demonstration (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=433192)

Technology and Industrialization
I've seen a lot of interest by people in accelerated technological development-things like advanced engines and heavy armor, tanks in 1904, jet fighters in the '30's, that kind of stuff. As I see it, the main problem with this is the underlying assumption that technological advancement in the Twentieth Century did not proceed as quickly as it could have.
This is a questionable assumption, at best. Even the dissemination of advanced technology requires a highly-developed industrial infrastructure and economy, not to mention a top-notch educational system and loads of venture-capital, in the receiving nation in order to support research and production.
In general, therefore, players ought to consider themselves limited to the contemporary technologies of their chosen state. Research and development, as well as industrial espionage and highly-focussed modernization programs, can change that, but remember a few things:
Anything experimental is going to be unreliable (especially in battlefield conditions).
Any advanced design requires an equally advanced economy in order to construct it. Anybody can use an assault rifle, but machining the parts to the necessarily high tolerances is only possible with a skilled, motivated workforce at every level of manufacture, from ore extraction to finished production.
Don't expect your research to bear fruit for several years. At best. It takes a long time to go from the drawing-board to field testing to production, especially for newly-industrializing states.
More discussion on these issues can be found at the Economics Thread.

Realism Policy
If you're playing a democracy, you shouldn't stray too far from actual history when promoting your policies. If a government in Britain, the United states, or France makes a hugely unpopular decision, they're apt to be voted out at the next elections (and possibly given to another player). Massive protests and general strikes against unpopular policies are likely even in constitutional autocracies like Germany.
In serious autocracies like Russia and Persia, you see violent Revolutions.
Study your chosen nation's history closely. If what you want to do is totally incompatible with what was actually going on (like, say, a sudden Fascist coup in Canada), you ought to choose another nation more consistent with your interests. You may be replaced after being issued a warning.
Another thing that people want a lot of is Revolutions. Nationalist uprisings against Imperial Powers occur all the time, especially in Asia and Africa, the Balkans, and the Middle East. In Europe, however, it would best if people bore in mind that in Russia, for instance, the only state where a radical revolution was historically successful in the Modern Era, Leftist agitation, insurrection, and terrorism had been going for nearly forty years by the time of the February and October Revolutions of 1917, and that it was finally precipitated only by a national catastrophe, which also enabled its success. Just saying, "Marxists and Anarchists seize power in <Capital City>!" is lame and unconvincing. If you're going to have a major transfer of power, understand that the groundwork has to be laid over decades, government troops and other conservative forces always have the edge, and you have to make it plausible. There are solid historical reasons why the Communists never took over Holland. Learn what those reasons are, if you want a Communist Netherlands, and figure out how the Reds could have made their case to the Dutch more effectively.

I agree completely. Expect serious economic effects when radical change occurs as well. Money does not stick around when things get dicey. Capital flight is one of the first things that occurs, followed usually by the rich themselves. Massive social unrest also breeds poor productivity in the farms and factories.

my plan was to get laurence of Arabia to help me free myself, then turn against the west and join the Axis powers as a hope of getting more powerful. see how the ww2 turns out then re-join the west, to combat the communism that will threat my monarchy, shut myself away for a few years exporting oil , then take up the middle east conflict.and have the world on its knees during oil crisis'

the joining of saudi arabia and germany would give an interesting insight in what might have happened if nationalists siezed power in the middle east, the logistics of north africa would change suddenly. diplomacy with the east may be crushed and of the middle east conflict may change drastically

We would be a kingdom at first staying neutral, but with the help of the western countries. A war develops within...forming a republic at first and then eventually forming a dictorship,a monarchy by the end of the century while staying neutral and pro-western...

my plan was to get laurence of Arabia to help me free myself, then turn against the west and join the Axis powers as a hope of getting more powerful. see how the ww2 turns out then re-join the west, to combat the communism that will threat my monarchy, shut myself away for a few years exporting oil , then take up the middle east conflict.and have the world on its knees during oil crisis'

the joining of saudi arabia and germany would give an interesting insight in what might have happened if nationalists siezed power in the middle east, the logistics of north africa would change suddenly. diplomacy with the east may be crushed and of the middle east conflict may change drastically

important note to Saudi Arabia... no significant oil exploration occured until 1941, and no actual working wells go into production until 1947. It didn't become a powerhouse until the 1950s. There simply wasn't the required demand for oil to speed things up. Important thing to remember, the biggest oil producing nations until 1950 were the US and Soviet Union, and OPEC didn't exist. Both of those nations still produce most of their own oil or could if required by prices. Even now.

Disclaimer
This is supposed to be FUN, First and Foremost. If I come across as too dictatorial, or otherwise so abrasive or judgmental as to interfere with people's enjoyment of The Game, please tell me.
And I want to thank you all for your input and support.

Realism: Just a question but the only things i did that tweaked the history were the rise of socialism (facism and anarchism were rampant in spain) and the passing of a law by the king (he was an uber conservative king) that banned the extremeist parties...it led to revolts and the current civil war...is that ok?

I already put a nasty post in your main News/Diplomatic Thread. I was, shall we say, over-harsh. For which I apologize.

But I do think you're moving too quickly with the radicalization of the populace. Remember, this is Spain. Yeah, half the population fondly remembers the Anarcho-Syndicalists. But the other half fondly remembers the Inquisition.

I don't think a full-blown Civil War, just as the result of the suppression of political parties, is really plausible in Spain immediately. Realistically, the liberals would spend several years trying petitions, protests, and strikes before resorting to violence, while the radicals would be bombing and assassinating and kidnapping and otherwise alienating their potential base of support until (again after several years) the conservative tyranny got so unbearable on the common folk that the radicals starting not looking so bad.

A Leftist Revolution in Spain is not, by any means, unthinkable. But by, say, 1920 rather than 1902. Maybe as early as 1912 if the King is amazingly evil and incompetent, but it would be hard to justify (if he were that bad, the Rightists themselves would replace him with somebody smarter), and the Loyalists would start in the position of strength, and it would take years for the Lefties to win.

Even the Civil War in Russia lasted to 1921. From the first failed Revolution in 1905, and the next successful ones in 1917. With major assassinations and terrorism going back to the 1880's. That's the kind of timeline that I think (for whatever my opinion's worth) you ought to be thinking in terms of.

Anyway. Sorry again if I'm too much of a jerk. I know I'm prone to it.

i was wondering if my Changes have been way too far out? But hey ima paranoid

Your changes have been pretty far out. I think Loubet would probably be voted from office for signing the treaty with Germany. The French do not like the Germans, especially at this time, and so far the treaty has only succeeded in uniting the rest of Europe, as well as some other places, against France. France has as yet received no tangible benefits whatsoever from Germany to offset the negatives, both foreign and domestic. Again, that's my opinion, for what it's worth.

Time and Recruitment
While I sympathize with Sharina's perspective on time, my own vote would be to keep time as it is. Negotiations and wars are already pretty rough to keep up with, and some folks go on vacations from time to time, and could miss out on scarily important stuff (like entire World wars). I realize it will take two years to "complete" the Game under the present timeflow, but I would hope that as people fall out or retire we'll pick up replacements along the way.
And by all means, Philanchez, I support your suggestion with regard to recruitment--especially for all those countries in the Main Post with the question marks on them.

Again, thanks to everyone for their input.

Hello to all, I will be playing as romania, which after briefly reading its history I found it to be a very volitile country, throughout history it was a monarchy, a dictatorship, a communist state and a democracy. and throughout history it has been influenced by allies, central powers, axis and communists. pre-WW1 forign policy caused competition between germany and france on suppling millitary aid, and during WW1 both central power and allies competed to bring romania on their side. with territory gained and lost.

so I believe its history depended mostly on the advances of other major powers along with opinion and sympathy of its people of them.

At the begining romania would start as a monarchy with king carol (I) and forign policy based equally between central powers (distrust of russia and possibility of controlling Bukovina and Bessarabia from russia) and the allies (possibilty of gaining transylvania from hungary)

sorry if i have gone too far out, my knowledge of this time period is a bit far out, ima hoping this'll pick up after 1910, I have created a E20 Region, if people want to join go ahead, the password is Bastille, I would step down from being France if anyone is seeing my changes as being too dramatic.

NOTICE!

Its been fun rping as the Ottoman Empire,but do to my limted time for rping. I have to cut down my rping time to half..of what it use be. So I am here by leaving this rp. It was fun rping as the Ottomans. You guys really made me feel as the Ottomans, by all ganging up on me...yeah I got the hints thought this hint..that everyone in their mother had it out to get me...much like the rl Ottoman Empire..Anyways..its been fun playing this rp and I hope that this rp keeps on going and becomes more interesting. Note I may or may not return...maybe to rp as the Ottomans or someone else in the near future. Anyways bye and all that good stuff.

yours
Ottoman Khaif

err what do i do now? Does the Ottoman reforms (Building up of infrastructure etc) still take place in my lands? How do i rebel against a NPC nation now? Oh i am confused!

IM- that's up to the next guy who rps as the Ottomans.

NOTICE!

Its been fun rping as the Ottoman Empire,but do to my limted time for rping. I have to cut down my rping time to half..of what it use be. So I am here by leaving this rp. It was fun rping as the Ottomans. You guys really made me feel as the Ottomans, by all ganging up on me...yeah I got the hints thought this hint..that everyone in their mother had it out to get me...much like the rl Ottoman Empire..Anyways..its been fun playing this rp and I hope that this rp keeps on going and becomes more interesting. Note I may or may not return...maybe to rp as the Ottomans or someone else in the near future. Anyways bye and all that good stuff.

yours
Ottoman Khaif
You were a Turk among Turks, cunning and honorable. You will be missed.
I say we carve up his corpse . . .

I say we leave him alone, you power hungry bastard! That is, if he pays us....

I say we leave him alone, you power hungry bastard! That is, if he pays us....
Perfect. You extort, I dismember. Where's the problem?

Actually, the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire is a possible RP that a lot of us have been waiting for, not just power-hungry bastards like me and Persia--but also freedom-loving Macedonians and Bulgarians, Saudis, Egyptians, and, of course, the Jews. (He was a really good player, too--if anyone had a chance at seeing the Ottoman Empire survive the twentieth century, it was Ottoman Khaif.)
He wasn't being paranoid. Everyone was out to get him.
And carve up his corpse, which we have a Golden Opportunity to do now.
Sure, it might precipitate the First World War, but if somebody can think of pretext, now is a good time to attack.
All of this, by the way, is being said in my capacity as a player, rather than Moderator. There's no way I play Russia realistically and simultaneously be objective about the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire.
This is Sharina's bailiwick.
Also, the idea has been floated for a War Moderator, since some of the fighting that's been going on strains the limits of credulity. Personally, I think it's a good idea, and would like to nominate Galveston Bay for the job.
I think we may also need a separate Tech Moderator, as well. Someone not too gullible. I'll happily take suggestions.

minor note,
Just wondering...shouldn't you guys wait for someone to come along as rp as the Ottomans,before just attacking Non player nation...yet I don't know the policies of the this rp..so meh.

minor note,
Just wondering...shouldn't you guys wait for someone to come along as rp as the Ottomans,before just attacking Non player nation...yet I don't know the policies of the this rp..so meh.
Ah. As I say, I can't be objective.

hmmm... the Turks, also known as the 'sick man of Europe'

Well, history is really working against the Turks under Ottoman rule. The Serbs, Greeks, Austrians, and Russians all want great big chunks of Turkey. The British and French wouldn't mind a few morsals either, not to mention the future Saudis want Mecca, the various peoples of Palestine want their own, the Italians want some pieces as well..... I don't see how realistically we can prevent the carving up of Turkey. If no one wants to take it over, I can always handle any fighting needed. I have a computer game that allows me to play both the 1912 and 1913 Balkans War (and even with changes in years, the military geography and relative strengths don't change).

I can also game out readily any other part of Turkey should other vultures (I mean countries :) ) leap in take off chunks. Without a strong ally, either Britian or Germany, Turkey is pretty much screwed at this point, even once the Ottomans fall and the Young Turks take power.

However, the British did not want the Russians to get Constantinople (as its still called at this point), and only World War I changed their minds. So Britian should be Turkey's natural ally at this point. Only active British pressure can prevent a full carving up of Turkey. (at this point, I am having visions of dinner, but maybe thats just me).

Need some input from Germany

Historically, the Kaiser loved his navy, and so did Admiral Tirpitz. Are the Germans building up their fleet at the rate they did historically? It has a direct impact on American, British and French naval construction.

By the way, further research has determined that a lot of the Russian and Japanese ships that fought the Russo Japanese War were built in American, German, British and French shipyards. Both the Russians and Japanese have just begun to build their own warships. The Austrians and Italians can build their own as well. No one else can at this point. The other European powers get them from one of the four initially mentioned, as do the Latin Americans. Nobody else really has a navy to speak of except the Turks, and they get theirs from the British or Americans or French as well.

I have a few battleships...meh.

Anyways, Ottoman Khaif, I'm sorry for being a ruthless, power hungry bastard. FYI, I was going to have my House of Mullahs declare a Jihad on you, too :rolleyes: You did a good job fending off the hordes of hungry Imperialists, while at the same time, keeping what you had within you. I commend you! However, I can't exactly say I'm 100% sad to see you go. An NPC Ottomans is much easier to eat :D No hard feelings, eh?

Sad to see a player leaving but well done for what you achieved in diplomatic wranglings and keeping me, the French and the rest from usurping your territory!

Hmm. I think I can come up with a compromise, to allow for long RP's, while not over-extending the arrival of the years 1980 - 2000 until RL year 2007.

We should create two timescales, which isn't overly complicated to implemenet, while ensuring E20 does move at a good pace, instead of a snail's pace...

1. Active Timescale: 1 RL week = 1 E20 year. (Intense RP activity)
2. Calm Timescale: 1 RL week = 2 E20 years. (periods of boredom, inactivity, or minor RP's)


Examples:

1900 - now (1902) = Active Timescale due to Boxer Rebellion, Boer War, Spain + France revolutions, etc.

Later, by 1905 or so, those RP's probably would finish up (Boxer RP is finished now, I think) then we probably won't be RP'ing anything major for a few weeks or until someone does something major like declare total war or something. During this time, E20 enters Calm Timescale, until the next major conflict that requires lots of RP, then E20 will go back to Active Timescale.

Hope I'm making sense here. :p

Please share your thoughts on this. I want to resolve this ASAP, as I honestly think that waiting until 2007 in RL just to RP modern settings would be counter-productive. How many of us will still want to RP this 1 or 2 RL years from now if we're only in the 1940's or 1950's by next summer? This is quite a sticky issue, because we have to weigh in the time we need for RP's, and the time we need to reach modern times that some players might want to RP badly.

I don't think that's workable. What's major for some people might be minor for others. I understand your desire to speed things along, but I just don't think it can be done in such a way as to preserve the integrity of gameplay.
As it was, time in the Boxer Rebellion moved faster than any of the players.
If people fall out, they'll be replaced (hopefully). There's nothing to say we're stuck with our countries forever--look at Generic Empire, he started with the US and is now playing as Serbia, or me, from Rumania to Russia, or Galveston Bay, from Spain to the United States.
I don't really think it's a problem. Yeah, for people who're in the process of industrializing it can be frustrating ("When's my steel industry coming online? [i]Ten weeks?![i]"), but, well, that's why nobody's taken on a non-colonial African state. There are reasons why the Third World became the Third World.

Im still waiting for an actual offer to build my ships...

Actually, that's not quite why I wanted to speed up E20 somewhat.

I thought that if E20 goes inactive for a couple of weeks, or there is low RP activity in general, then we should jump forward a bit, to get back to the exciting stuff. Also, what I term as "Major RP activity" is a period of time where more than 3 seperate RP's are going on, or one big RP with more than 10 participating nations (such as a World War).

Let's assume a hypothetical situation here.

-----------------------------------------
Situation:

It is 1905. All the major RP's have ended, and stability settles across Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Americas.

Thus, a few people decide to RP trade, research projects, economy building, education reforms, etc. The RP's are mainly "solo" in which the player RP's by himself or herself, like a News Thread or something.

No wars, revolts, rebellions, etc. are happening. Consquently, E20 becomes somewhat boring with no activity.

---------------------------------------

Now, in this situation, we need some injection of excitement, to keep E20 going on strong. If we stick with one timescale, we will probably have to wait 10 - 20 RL weeks for our reforms to actually take effect. Once the 10 - 20 RL weeks passes, our nations would be in better shape to engage in major conflicts and such.

The problem is that for 10 - 20 RL weeks, RP'ing would be quite stale, and E20 would probably drop to the 20th page of threads on NS, way out of view of prospective new RP'ers. This is why I wanted to introduce 2 timescales to alleviate this problem.

Active Timescale (1 RL week = 1 E20 year) will be used for the periods of time when we have moderate to high RP activity, such as multiple invasions, revolts, rebellions, World Wars, tons of diplomacy, etc.

Passive Timescale (1 RL week = 2 or 3 E20 years) will be used for when there is little activity in E20, mainly the periods of rebuilding and the "filler" years between major conflicts and such.



What's so hard about taking notice of lots of RP activity and slow down time accordingly, then speed up time when there's little or no RP activity in E20 for at least a RL week?

I apologize if I appear to be ranting, but I'm trying to address a potentially serious problem. I am aware some of us first-timers probably won't mind, but down the line if new players come in, they may not have that kind of patience to wait that long for the good stuff to happen.

well, if we have a Great War situation, we might even need to slow things down to quarterly to RP reasonably.... really complex wars, with a lot of RP activity, should have the time to be developed. One problem I had with the Boxer Rebellion thread is that we really ran out of time to RP before the time ended for the turn.

well, if we have a Great War situation, we might even need to slow things down to quarterly to RP reasonably.... really complex wars, with a lot of RP activity, should have the time to be developed. One problem I had with the Boxer Rebellion thread is that we really ran out of time to RP before the time ended for the turn.

I'm perfectly more than happy to slow down time for intensive RP's. However, I do not agree with the idea of maintaining 1 RL week = 1 E20 year for the times when there's little or no RP activity in E20, or minor News Thread RP's. (Mainly RP's not involving Player VS Player action).

Basically, I want to implement "Accelerated Time" to alleviate the periods of low RP activity (low activity because everyone is waiting for their reforms, military, technology, etc. to progress enough before war or other stuff).

The US Navy is having a sale

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9292353&postcount=8

The battleship Texas and 3 gunboats is being offered for sale to Colombia (at a very reduced price).

The battleships Indiana, Massachusetts, cruisers Atlanta, Boston, and Chicago, and 6 gunboats are being offered for sale to China.

The brand new cruisers Denver, Des Moines, and Chattannoga are being offered for sale to Chile.

The battleships (almost new) Iowa, Kearsarge, Kentucky, plus 35 torpedo boats, are being offered for sale to Brazil.

information on those ships can be found here
http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/
and here
http://www.wtj.com/games/battlefleet_1900/ships_us.htm

no need to RP the actual exchange of money.... if your nation is listed as a desired purchaser, and you want them, we assume money changes hands and they are yours.

If not sold, then those ships are scrapped or laid up. I will assume inactive countries will probably take them unless someone has a good reason why they wouldn't

Disclaimer
-SNIP-
I already put a nasty post in your main News/Diplomatic Thread. I was, shall we say, over-harsh. For which I apologize.

But I do think you're moving too quickly with the radicalization of the populace. Remember, this is Spain. Yeah, half the population fondly remembers the Anarcho-Syndicalists. But the other half fondly remembers the Inquisition.

I don't think a full-blown Civil War, just as the result of the suppression of political parties, is really plausible in Spain immediately. Realistically, the liberals would spend several years trying petitions, protests, and strikes before resorting to violence, while the radicals would be bombing and assassinating and kidnapping and otherwise alienating their potential base of support until (again after several years) the conservative tyranny got so unbearable on the common folk that the radicals starting not looking so bad.

A Leftist Revolution in Spain is not, by any means, unthinkable. But by, say, 1920 rather than 1902. Maybe as early as 1912 if the King is amazingly evil and incompetent, but it would be hard to justify (if he were that bad, the Rightists themselves would replace him with somebody smarter), and the Loyalists would start in the position of strength, and it would take years for the Lefties to win.

Even the Civil War in Russia lasted to 1921. From the first failed Revolution in 1905, and the next successful ones in 1917. With major assassinations and terrorism going back to the 1880's. That's the kind of timeline that I think (for whatever my opinion's worth) you ought to be thinking in terms of.

Anyway. Sorry again if I'm too much of a jerk. I know I'm prone to it.
-SNIP-


Im not planning on haveing the war won anytime soon. Im going to draw it out for a good 4-5 years hopefully. My main goal is to put a progressive in power yet make the revolution as realistic as possible once again its just to put a progressive in power.

The US Navy is having a sale

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9292353&postcount=8

The battleship Texas and 3 gunboats is being offered for sale to Colombia (at a very reduced price).

The battleships Indiana, Massachusetts, cruisers Atlanta, Boston, and Chicago, and 6 gunboats are being offered for sale to China.

The brand new cruisers Denver, Des Moines, and Chattannoga are being offered for sale to Chile.

The battleships (almost new) Iowa, Kearsarge, Kentucky, plus 35 torpedo boats, are being offered for sale to Brazil.

information on those ships can be found here
http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/
and here
http://www.wtj.com/games/battlefleet_1900/ships_us.htm

no need to RP the actual exchange of money.... if your nation is listed as a desired purchaser, and you want them, we assume money changes hands and they are yours.

If not sold, then those ships are scrapped or laid up. I will assume inactive countries will probably take them unless someone has a good reason why they wouldn't
I'll take all the ships. I've already said as much in your News/Diplomatic Thread (where, incidentally, it didn't say that you had any specific customers in mind, as it does here).

I would like to volenteer as War Moderator, and give up Argentina as a result. It seems as though the best thing would be to have an objective moderater running the war RPs, one that isn't bound by any desire to see his/her side come out on top.

um, i need to know if i've gone too far out with my latest piece of news, President Loubet has gone insane (schizo) and kills himself, Alexandre is blamed and arrested, a new election takes place, is that too far out?

Im not planning on haveing the war won anytime soon. Im going to draw it out for a good 4-5 years hopefully. My main goal is to put a progressive in power yet make the revolution as realistic as possible once again its just to put a progressive in power.
Right. The point I was trying to make with that whole post is that war is the shortest part of Revolution, and only happens after everything else has been tried. For years. And nothing else has been tried in Spain at all. Which is what's not convincing about having a Civil War there at all right now.
You don't just have an immediate armed uprising as soon as opposition parties are suppressed. That's what I'm trying to say. I hope you'll re-read the post a little more carefully.

I know that and I did read the post its just that the tensions had already been there. Facists and Anarchists had been protesting and demonstarteing and blah blah blah for years. In RL there was a coup and Alfonso had to agree to a dictatorship and then a republic then finally the spanish civil war we all know. The first new government I mentioned was in the early twenties. I just made them more agressive thats all I did.

I would like to volenteer as War Moderator, and give up Argentina as a result. It seems as though the best thing would be to have an objective moderater running the war RPs, one that isn't bound by any desire to see his/her side come out on top.

describe your experience...

I am 42 years old, have been playing war games since I was 10, started reading military history when I was 6, and have a degree in history. I also moderated the military activity in this thread

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=385756&highlight=shiron

I have yet to see anyone apply for the foul Sick Man of Europe, the Ottoman Empire. If no one wishes to play as them, I'd be more than willing to take them over. There are quite a few evil plans I have for them, and the vultures surrounding my dying corpse will be met with a shotgun. You evil Macedonians, you can forget independence; we shall slaughter all of you! And we will then deny the massacre happened to the modern day *winks at real life Turkey and Armenians*

I have yet to see anyone apply for the foul Sick Man of Europe, the Ottoman Empire. If no one wishes to play as them, I'd be more than willing to take them over. There are quite a few evil plans I have for them, and the vultures surrounding my dying corpse will be met with a shotgun. You evil Macedonians, you can forget independence; we shall slaughter all of you! And we will then deny the massacre happened to the modern day *winks at real life Turkey and Armenians*

I can live with your being Turkey.. although the vultures will then quickly feed on Korea, but historically they did anyway (well, Japan at least after Russia tried).

*approaches recently built altar and lays prostrate on the ground*

Oh great Earth 1900-2000 self-appointed game moderators! I, Kordo have a humble question concerning one of my fellow players-Geisenfried.

*pauses for fear of being struck down*

Why if I may ask was a player, who I have nothing against personally might I add, was given control of Czechoslovakia, I territory under my nations control? Why was I not asked before this occurred? My current RP’ing plans call for no independence for this territory/group at all, or at least not to much later. I feel that this is unfair to both me and Geisenfried. I feel if I do not want to give territory up, I should not be forced to, and that this situation leaves Geisenfried in the lurch- what if he wishes to participate in this as Czechoslovakia yet I, the admittedly strong-headed and incredibly stubborn person that I am, does not give him independence? I ask your judgment on the matter.

*runs away from alter before the mods can smite him*

Japan took Korea in 1905, the U.S. called for Korean independence in 1907, and then America and Japan signed a treaty trading recognition of the Phillipines by Japan for Korea by America. So it won't be long until Korea is taken, wether by Russia or China or Japan. All of those nations could use some more territory, and all are but a short hop away. If someone else takes Korea, the China-Korea-Japan alliance that is budding in this timeline makes Korea more of a waiting game than actual RPing.

The Ottoman Empire, however, has enemies on all sides, many people who want their own states, and a large empire. As the OE, I'd have to be more active with more real RPs.

*approaches recently built altar and lays prostrate on the ground*

Oh great Earth 1900-2000 self-appointed game moderators! I, Kordo have a humble question concerning one of my fellow players-Geisenfried.

*pauses for fear of being struck down*

Why if I may ask was a player, who I have nothing against personally might I add, was given control of Czechoslovakia, I territory under my nations control? Why was I not asked before this occurred? My current RP’ing plans call for no independence for this territory/group at all, or at least not to much later. I feel that this is unfair to both me and Geisenfried. I feel if I do not want to give territory up, I should not be forced to, and that this situation leaves Geisenfried in the lurch- what if he wishes to participate in this as Czechoslovakia yet I, the admittedly strong-headed and incredibly stubborn person that I am, does not give him independence? I ask your judgment on the matter.

*runs away from alter before the mods can smite him*

You don't have to give me independence, I can declare it and then we fight it out concerning the matter. You know, like the Americans and British did in 1776. Sure, it didn't happen in real history, but this is alternate history.

As for why I got Czechoslovakia, I asked for it.

Now that I think about it, with German interest in the area, and the tensions between the Germans and Austrians in this RP, their might be the making of a Great War in here... *begins schemes to start the AH WWI*

To Kordo:

I believe that major colonies should be given the chance to RP becoming independent from their motherland. That way, we can have more players in E20, and if you really want the land, you could always re-take the land from the rebels.

By your reasoning, if this was set in 1770, then the British player refuses to let a player RP the USA or the 13 Colonies. Thus, the USA will never be formed, and you can fill in the rest.

Another example would be India. The British controlled India as a colony in 1900, so I believe that it's only fair that someone can be given the chance to RP India as a people, declare independence, then gain it. Thus India becomes its own nation by 1910 or 1920, considerably earlier than in RL (India became independent in 1949 or so in RL, I believe).

Major colonies or territories that are modern nations (1950+ era) should be given the chance to be RP'ed. Perhaps in this Earth, they can become actual nations much earlier than in RL, opening up much more possible RP's.

*approaches recently built altar and lays prostrate on the ground*

Oh great Earth 1900-2000 self-appointed game moderators! I, Kordo have a humble question concerning one of my fellow players-Geisenfried.

*pauses for fear of being struck down*

Why if I may ask was a player, who I have nothing against personally might I add, was given control of Czechoslovakia, I territory under my nations control? Why was I not asked before this occurred? My current RP’ing plans call for no independence for this territory/group at all, or at least not to much later. I feel that this is unfair to both me and Geisenfried. I feel if I do not want to give territory up, I should not be forced to, and that this situation leaves Geisenfried in the lurch- what if he wishes to participate in this as Czechoslovakia yet I, the admittedly strong-headed and incredibly stubborn person that I am, does not give him independence? I ask your judgment on the matter.

*runs away from alter before the mods can smite him*

Galveston Bay here.... when being offered platitudes just skip to the scantily clad temple girls...

seriously though, I have my own misgivings about countries that don't exist yet being RPed... but Sharina does have a point too...

I guess if the RP is handled reasonably well, with a reasonable amount of historical accuracy, I can live with it. Personally though, I don't think the nationalist movements in Eastern Europe really got going until the Great War showed just how weak their occupiers where. Especially in Austria Hungary. The Czechs actually fought rather well for the Hapsburgs until losses and weariness became a problem in 19115-16. Then they got noisely nationalistic.

A quick review of the events of 1848 will show why the subject peoples of Europe weren't quick to rise up. And the Hapsburg empire was actually fairly mild as far as authoritarianism goes.

So if Austrian infantry and Hungarian Cavalry ruthlessly put down the uppity Czechs I don't suppose anyone would mind, particularly not your more authoratarian neighbors of Russia and Germany.

I guess I should state, because I don't think I made this very clear in my ealier post, that I dno't have a problem RP'ing its rebellion so long as (for the time being) the Czech's remain part of AH.

Remember, this is alternate history, and that, while we should stay on the relatively stay on the course of history, we do have leeway for change, and that includes having more nationalist rebellions earlier. The idea of 'Czechoslovakia' had been originated in the 1890s by Czech and Slovak nationalists, and I'm just accelerating the pace.

However, don't expect any fullscale rebellions yet. Just demonstrations and civil unrest for now.

unrest I can live with... important to remember though, in 1902 the Austrians moved into Bosnia and annexed it with 200,000 men and the only consequence was that Britian refused to ally with Germany because that would mean allying with Austria Hungary (ok, in the long run that was pretty damned huge, but not immediately)

So armed rebellion could be put down without serious immediate diplomatic cost by the Austrians, and the Czech and Slovak nationalists would know this

Actually, Czechoslovakia had around 70-80% of Austria-Hungary's industry. If the Czechs could hold off the Austrians, the Austrians would lose due to the fact that they couldn't support their armies anymore.

The US Navy is having a sale

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9292353&postcount=8

The battleship Texas and 3 gunboats is being offered for sale to Colombia (at a very reduced price).

The battleships Indiana, Massachusetts, cruisers Atlanta, Boston, and Chicago, and 6 gunboats are being offered for sale to China.

The brand new cruisers Denver, Des Moines, and Chattannoga are being offered for sale to Chile.

The battleships (almost new) Iowa, Kearsarge, Kentucky, plus 35 torpedo boats, are being offered for sale to Brazil.

information on those ships can be found here
http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/
and here
http://www.wtj.com/games/battlefleet_1900/ships_us.htm

no need to RP the actual exchange of money.... if your nation is listed as a desired purchaser, and you want them, we assume money changes hands and they are yours.

If not sold, then those ships are scrapped or laid up. I will assume inactive countries will probably take them unless someone has a good reason why they wouldn't
The Republic of Chile would like to purchase the cruisers offered. Please contact our embassy in Washington, D.C. to arrange purchase.

Further, Chile views the United States of America as the greatest gaurantor of freedom in the Western Hemisphere, and would like to negotiate a Pacific Naval Treaty with the USA. We view with some concern recent discussions among some colonial powers.

I have yet to see anyone apply for the foul Sick Man of Europe, the Ottoman Empire. If no one wishes to play as them, I'd be more than willing to take them over. There are quite a few evil plans I have for them, and the vultures surrounding my dying corpse will be met with a shotgun. You evil Macedonians, you can forget independence; we shall slaughter all of you! And we will then deny the massacre happened to the modern day *winks at real life Turkey and Armenians*
Oh. I see how you are. You don't want the Ottomans dismembered because you want the whole thing for yourself. And you call me power-hungry. Well.
That could get interesting, especially when the Lublin Conference breaks down and Eastern Europe turns into a massive bloodbath, as seems likely. Speaking of which:
*approaches recently built altar and lays prostrate on the ground*

Oh great Earth 1900-2000 self-appointed game moderators! I, Kordo have a humble question concerning one of my fellow players-Geisenfried.

*pauses for fear of being struck down*

Why if I may ask was a player, who I have nothing against personally might I add, was given control of Czechoslovakia, I territory under my nations control? Why was I not asked before this occurred? My current RP’ing plans call for no independence for this territory/group at all, or at least not to much later. I feel that this is unfair to both me and Geisenfried. I feel if I do not want to give territory up, I should not be forced to, and that this situation leaves Geisenfried in the lurch- what if he wishes to participate in this as Czechoslovakia yet I, the admittedly strong-headed and incredibly stubborn person that I am, does not give him independence? I ask your judgment on the matter.

*runs away from alter before the mods can smite him*
From the beginning, stateless peoples have been allowed to apply. That's why. I just brutally suppressed an uprising in Lithuania, myself, basically causing their extinction as a race (only the US seemed to notice, which is just as well). The Original Hrstrovokia encouraged it in order to mix things up a bit, and until now it was never an issue, as such--see the colonial RPs of Britain with South Africa, Australia, and Ireland, or Macedonia's semi-successful revolt against the Turks (in which, I might add, both Russian and Turkish forces actually mobilized for war and stood on alert for something like an entire E20 month).
It is pretty harsh. One lives, one dies, or is at least crippled. And maybe we can develop game mechanics for dealing with it in a less ad hoc and needlessly brutal fashion. But presently they are the rules.
Anyway, good luck to both of you. Though one of you must die.

As The Hrstrovokia
Finally, I'll vote for GB as War Moderator, though I don't why Manarth can't assist if both agree (and no, Manarth, you needn't give up your country if GB shares). I'd like to empower one or both as soon as possible to deal with events in Western Europe.

We need a Technology Moderator, as well, I think. 1902 was the year of the first really successful Zeppelin flight. If Germany doesn't post that, did it really happen? As a rule, I would think that if negative or neutral things aren't specifically averted somehow, they can be assumed to have occurred as in history--but positive things ought to be at least noted. But then, I'm mean.

And why haven't we heard from Germany? The huge "Franco-German Menace" that's been driving European politics since its formation hasn't done anything. Its total silence seems unrealistic to me.
Anyway. My two cents.

ARRGH!! *unsheathes sword and begins swinging it around*

Dammit! I wanted those ships! DAMN YOU PLACEMENT TEST!! :mad:

By the way, is Brazil even playing??

Well shucks. Personally I say Fluffy stays in Korea and joins the "Asian Menace" that no one is paying attention to. I WANT TO EAT TURKEY ALIVE!! ME HUNGRY!! Either way, I'm GOING to call a Jihad on the Turks and flow angry Shi'ites at Iraq. Your choice I guess.

Manarth, I say you stay in Argentina. There is no need for you to drop a nation if you have a co-worker.

Sharina, more and more I agree with you. I think that if the time comes where EVERYONE is doing nothing, then I think we should vote or something. It should at least be an option.

And as to the Czechs, I have no problem in general with being colonial possessions, but I do believe that there are other things that are needed (Netherlands, Belgium, Scandinavia, Italy). All of these nations had an impact on things and I feel something is missing without them.

Finally, as to Germany, I concurr. It seems that this... thing is becoming more of the Germans being the France's... um... well, ho. I had a cool idea to throw the world into war by now as Germany, but lo and behold, Aequatio decided that he would return as the Mighty Second Riech! It's a tad late now, but I do think that if he wants to continue to play such an important role, that he should step up to the plate; last warning.

But what am I saying. I'm a tech level 2 guy in the midst of a coup d'eta. But I do have oil...

Parthini']And as to the Czechs, I have no problem in general with being colonial possessions, but I do believe that there are other things that are needed (Netherlands, Belgium, Scandinavia, Italy). All of these nations had an impact on things and I feel something is missing without them.

Eh, if I can't succeed with the Czechs I'll be the Belgians.

if you take the belgians then have fun...i was belgium until they opened up some other countries due to lack of activity and it was hardto find info....practically impossible...anyway can anyone find my news thread? its called The Castillian Times and i cant seem to find it...

The Republic of Chile would like to purchase the cruisers offered. Please contact our embassy in Washington, D.C. to arrange purchase.

Further, Chile views the United States of America as the greatest gaurantor of freedom in the Western Hemisphere, and would like to negotiate a Pacific Naval Treaty with the USA. We view with some concern recent discussions among some colonial powers.

What does the Chilean government want in the way of a treaty? The US would want a coaling station at Santiago primarily. (as the Panama Canal still is over a decade away from completion).

Although the three cruisers initially offered were sold to Russia, instead the US will sell these three ships instead

CP Newark class (Newark, Philadelphia, San Francisco,)
(4000 tons, 19 knots, 12 x 6 inch, 10 misc small caliber)
plus 5 brand new destroyers

ooc
they are better ships than the ones sold to the Russians by the way, all three saw service in the Spanish American War.

I would suggest that we simply assume things happen technologically according to history, as there was almost no government involvement in most technological innovations in the 20th Century except in the nuclear, computer science and to an extent aviation fields. (none of which really exist yet)

As the US, I intend to definitely note the Wright Brothers, it is one of the most important events in the history of mankind after all. Big projects like the Manhatten Protect, Moon Race, the Internet, well, that definitely should be noted and if not, they don't happen or happen differently.

No big rush, Goddard is barely thinking about rockets, the Wright Brothers are still playing around with gliders, Madame Curie is still pondering this weird element called Radium, and the calculator (if it has been invented yet) is still a wonderful novelty.

Parthini']ARRGH!! *unsheathes sword and begins swinging it around*

Dammit! I wanted those ships! DAMN YOU PLACEMENT TEST!! :mad:

By the way, is Brazil even playing??...

No, but the US has had good relations with Brazil for a long time, and influence is always good. The ships ended up being sold to China, Russia, Chile and I guess Colombia (although no answer yet)

Parthini']Sharina, more and more I agree with you. I think that if the time comes where EVERYONE is doing nothing, then I think we should vote or something. It should at least be an option....

I tend to agree with that, in another thread I played in, we shifted things up a decade a couple of times



Parthini']And as to the Czechs, I have no problem in general with being colonial possessions, but I do believe that there are other things that are needed (Netherlands, Belgium, Scandinavia, Italy). All of these nations had an impact on things and I feel something is missing without them....

yes, where are the Italians, they have a navy, beat up on the Turks, have a couple of colonies (or will soon), can build warships, and are in a challenging position.

Parthini']Finally, as to Germany, I concurr. It seems that this... thing is becoming more of the Germans being the France's... um... well, ho. I had a cool idea to throw the world into war by now as Germany, but lo and behold, Aequatio decided that he would return as the Mighty Second Riech! It's a tad late now, but I do think that if he wants to continue to play such an important role, that he should step up to the plate; last warning.

Yes, we need an active Germany. They were the heavies of the turn of the Century, and they made things happen.... the Moroccan Crisis, badly thought out alliances with Austria Hungary, grandious plans for winning a two front war, really cool warships, the worlds best army, not the worlds best political leader.... we have to have evil Huns!!!!

Besides, my mind is still agog at the notion of France and Germany forming any kind of alliance after the Franco-Prussian War and the Napoleonic War, 30 Years War, War of Austrian Succession, War of Spanish Seccession (etc, etc)... of course the French did ally with the British, and they have even more history fighting them. So I suppose a Franco-German Alliance isn't completely insane.

heh i love that term...HUNS...it rolls off the tongue...we do need a more active germany so if someone could TG him or something or we will just have to strp him of the country eventually....by the way can any one find my news thread?

Don't hear me whining and telling you to go away and never be the Czechs. It's just me, the angry muslim, whining.


No, but the US has had good relations with Brazil for a long time, and influence is always good. The ships ended up being sold to China, Russia, Chile and I guess Colombia (although no answer yet)

Ohh, I see. We're racist, crusading, muslim-haters. That's cool. See you in 100 years... :mp5:

Just kidding! I'm still in want to pawn a few old ships.

Heres the thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=432678

That'll be 2 battleships, three cruisers, and 7 gunboats.

heh i love that term...HUNS...it rolls off the tongue...we do need a more active germany so if someone could TG him or something or we will just have to strp him of the country eventually....by the way can any one find my news thread?

its here
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=432982

you can always right click on a name, and it will give you the option of looking for posts made by that person, including yours.

awsome thanx!

What does the Chilean government want in the way of a treaty? The US would want a coaling station at Santiago primarily. (as the Panama Canal still is over a decade away from completion).

Although the three cruisers initially offered were sold to Russia, instead the US will sell these three ships instead

CP Newark class (Newark, Philadelphia, San Francisco,)
(4000 tons, 19 knots, 12 x 6 inch, 10 misc small caliber)
plus 5 brand new destroyers

ooc
they are better ships than the ones sold to the Russians by the way, all three saw service in the Spanish American War.

Chile will purchase all ships offered. We will agree to an 11 year lease on a coaling station, to be operated by a Chilean corporation. We are requesting an agreement where the USA would stand by Chilean defense of the Straights of Magellan in the event of being forced by a European power.

Chile will purchase all ships offered. We will agree to an 11 year lease on a coaling station, to be operated by a Chilean corporation. We are requesting an agreement where the USA would stand by Chilean defense of the Straights of Magellan in the event of being forced by a European power.

The US agrees to that, but also wants to be able to repair ships that suffer damage while transiting the Horn and the Straits, and will provide the funds to operate a joint naval shipyard for both navies.

Just so everybody knows, Germany's been sent his first warning for noninvolvement. Hopefully he'll either pick up the slack or allow someone else to. The lack of an active Germany is deforming European politics.

Just so everybody knows, Germany's been sent his first warning for noninvolvement. Hopefully he'll either pick up the slack or allow someone else to. The lack of an active Germany is deforming European politics.

And it's up to Sharina, I guess, if Fluffywuffy really wants to switch. I'd still advise Fluff strongly against it.

And why might you not want me to switch? You think no one else knows about Korea and will have something retarded like Prince Gang becomming a Japanese puppet emperor (Gang led some guerilla attacks during Japanese occupation and attempted to sieze power in 1919. He then fled to Manchuria, was caught, and placed under gaurd.)? Or is it just because everyone wants to divide up Turkey? If the latter, you can certainly try, and that'd make a good RP with all the dividers hating both me and each other.

I was aware of Russia's alert of troops, and that would hardly be surprising given that the Ottoman Empire and Russia have had 10 previous wars with the 11th on its way, if WWI breaks out with a similar alliance system (though maybe France and Austria-Hungary switch sides).

Galveston Bay here.... I have a suggestion

Ok, there are 2 nations likely to help Turkey, the British and the Germans. However, the German player has been issued a warning, and the British player is on vacation for a week. So lets hold off RPing anything involving a war just yet. Both or either is likely to help Turkey.

Now an interesting scenario would be this. Russia gets involved with Turkey, Japan (who has been very quiet lately too) decides to get even with Russia for forcing it out of Manchuria at the end of the Sino-Japanese War, and begins the Russo-Japanese War. Russia has a 2 front war, plus social unrest, a real possibility of war with Great Britain, and a possibility of help from France, or Germany. This could actually force real reform in Russia, as happened in the 1905 Revolt (until the damned Czar screwed it up later, a very fatal mistake for him and for Russia).

It could also lead to a general European War.... but you have to admit it would be exciting. It could very easily spread further than that.

or Russia could back off from Turkey for now (saving it from dismemberment), and the Balkan Wars can happen on schedule. (costing Turkey most of its possessions in Europe, but that is a hardly fatal blow).

I feel dumb..its turn out I am going to have enought time to rp as the Ottomans for this rp, if its been taken by someone else..then forget it. I blame myself for dropping out,before I could confirm that I wouldn't have time to rp. BTW a major note for the [NS]Parthini, The Shi'ites of Iraq are Arabs, and your nation is Persian...that's why the Shi'ite Arabs wouldn't side with your forces. Do the fact your Persians and their Arabs...as a RL Turkish-Arab Muslim I know this stuff. Just had to point out that little fact.

Galveston Bay here,
Ottoman, please play Turkey... Fluffywuffy, please, please play Italy... we need an Italy.. and Italy although claimed, hasn't done very much (if anything?)

besides, Italy picks on the Ottomans too... (thats why Italy ended up with Libya and some Greek Islands I can't spell without a dictionary)

Alright then I'll rp as the Ottomans.

Parthini, The Shi'ites of Iraq are Arabs, and your nation is Persian...that's why the Shi'ite Arabs wouldn't side with your forces. Do the fact your Persians and their Arabs...as a RL Turkish-Arab Muslim I know this stuff. Just had to point out that little fact.

Ahh... true. I guess I was counting on the Religion card more than the ethnicity card. Oh well. But I bet the Arabs don't like the Turks either :p

Anyways, glad to have you back!

[NS]Parthini: Well its true that the Arabs and Turks didn't get along that much...but they didn't hate eachother intill the Young Turks came to power and made the Ottoman Emprie a Turkish State then to mult Islamic state...anyways..The Arabs and the Turks for the most part have a one thing in common their hate towards Persia..one thing I must say about your empire sir...you must build it up before going to war against me...because Persia around 1900s..was petty damn weak..so I would say you need to build up your nation first..before going to war against me. Because the Ottomans at this time period were alot stronger then Persia and able to hold off any attack from Persia. Just my two cents on it.

And why might you not want me to switch?
Two reasons: self-interest (as the Persian says, an NPC Ottoman is easier to eat); and as a favor to you, since you'd be biting off a chunk of trouble. You may that condescending, but it's certainly not intended as such, and my apologies if it comes across that way.
It's moot now, though, since Ottoman Khaif is able to play after all.

Just my two cents on it.

I agree completely. However, a few things have changed, and I thought I had some other cards to play with. Who knows what happens with those. Well, either way, we shall see what we shall see.

Hiyas, guys.

(Sharina puts on a fancy robe with runes and intricate designs on it. Sharina also wields a tall staff, and bangs it loudly three times on the ground.)

Ottoman Khaif:

I'm glad to see you back. As Chief Moderator, I fully support your return, and you still have the Ottomans to RP. If you have any problems, or if you need to go on a vacation, let me know. :)

Fluffywuffy:

Seeing that Ottoman Khaif came back, I have been wondering. Would you like to play Italy as someone suggested? Or perhaps Germany if Aequatio doesn't respond to his warnings? Or do you want to return to Korea? What nation would you like to RP out?

Germany Issue:

If Aequatio doesn't respond to warnings, then I'd like to know who would be willing to RP Germany. Will it be Fluffywuffy? Or someone else? After all, Germany was a huge part of the first 50 years of the 20th century. WW I, WW II, Nazism, Albert Einstein (before he fled), etc.

Moderation:

I like the idea of Technology Moderator. After all, we don't want messed up technology, tech-wanking, tech-godmodding, etc. Also, I encourage possible new directions with existing technologies. Should make for some interesting RP.

Miscellanous:

Are there anything else that I should address? Any new players? Any issues need resolving? Any more nation-switching?

[/end Moderation duties]

I'm getting more and more optimistic about E20, as it appears that it is really starting to take off, with more RP'ers, and better definition of what to do and what not to do. It's my honest hope that this will be just as good, or hopefully even better than Dra-Pol's "A Modern World".

Keep it up, guys! :D

Hiyas, guys.


Germany Issue:

If Aequatio doesn't respond to warnings, then I'd like to know who would be willing to RP Germany. Will it be Fluffywuffy? Or someone else? After all, Germany was a huge part of the first 50 years of the 20th century. WW I, WW II, Nazism, Albert Einstein (before he fled), etc.

Germany has appeared and posted a number of things... including that it is selling warships to the Rumanians and Turks, and has built a shipyard on the Baltic coast.... probably a good thing for Russia that it recently bought some US battleships and cruisers and torpedo boats

What is Japan doing? They are also a pivotal player in the early part of the 20th Century (and for the rest of it for that matter)

Germany has appeared and posted a number of things... including that it is selling warships to the Rumanians and Turks, and has built a shipyard on the Baltic coast.... probably a good thing for Russia that it recently bought some US battleships and cruisers and torpedo boats

What is Japan doing? They are also a pivotal player in the early part of the 20th Century (and for the rest of it for that matter)

OOC: jeez don't post for a day and see what happens

Huh?

When and where did Germany / Aequatio post?

Huh?

When and where did Germany / Aequatio post?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=433459

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=430824&page=2

Thanks, GB.

So it does appear Aequatio is still "in" as Germany. Now all we gotta do is figure out which nation Fluffywuffy wants to play.

Then try to collect all active and ongoing RP threads, so we can decide when to vote on a possible "fast forward" once all the rebellions, revolts, independence wars, coups, etc. are over and done with.

Since Ottoman Khaif has returned, and there are calls for an Italy, then sure, I'll play as the Italians. Unlike the Koreans and Ottomans, I have no evil plans for the moment, but I'll think of something. I'll probably just try and sell hand-made sports cars and sue Nintendo when they come out with Mario ;)

what year is it? and are there any open nationstates?

1902 and yes there are a few i would check the first post for whats taken

Sorry guys that it took me awhile... i was doing Cold War '95... you can cut the questionmark...

As you wish.
I also posted a calendar.
And tomorrow I'll post a list of Moderators. And we haven't had any nominations for Tech Mod, yet.

As you wish.
I also posted a calendar.
And tomorrow I'll post a list of Moderators. And we haven't had any nominations for Tech Mod, yet.

I suggest you handle tech moderation

in other news, the US is trying to get some kind of naval partnership going with the British, something more formal than its traditional working relationship.

ill take korea then if its open, put me in the position plz

ill take korea then if its open, put me in the position plz

You do realize that by taking on Korea, you'll be faced with huge challenges both IC'ly and OOC'ly?

1. Korea is in a very precarious position. One wrong move, and either China, Japan, or Russia could pounce on it. (IC)

2. Korea doesn't have much industrialization or modern stuff. (IC)

3. You will have to do quite a bit of research and catching up on both Real History and Alternate History of Korea in this Earth. (OOC)

4. You will have to keep yourself updated on current RP's involving Korea (OOC).

5. You need to keep your ambition, participation, and enthuaism up playing as Korea, or you could get frustrated or bored somewhat quickly. (OOC)


I'm only trying to warn you of what you'll be getting into if you choose Korea, thats all. :)

((OOC: Wow Sharina, way to murder the kid's hopes and aspirations.

In other news, I'll be gone from today to tuesday, so don't hold your breath for Serbian responses.))

((OOC: Wow Sharina, way to murder the kid's hopes and aspirations.

In other news, I'll be gone from today to tuesday, so don't hold your breath for Serbian responses.))


Sorry about that. I just wanted to be honest and realistic with the guy. I didn't want him to think Korea would be an easy nation to RP, like, say, USA or Germany or Britain.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9304977#post9304977

I am sorry, but the last times I volunteered. I am willing to go as Bulgaria...

My plan would be to be involved with trying to get a foothold as a nation and insure national survival. I start the century as a monarchy and stay heavily involved in the affairs of the Balkans for the rest of the century... but not as developed as most of the other nations around us, but still formidable nontheless...

I suggest you handle tech moderation

I really don't want it. I'll serve until a qualified replacement shows up. But I really don't want it. Really. Don't. Want it.

Ritlina, check the Korean News/Diplomatic Link at the Main Post. And check out the Boxer Rebellion (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=428547&page=1&pp=15). Tell me if that's how you want the current history of Korea to have been played. And if you're eaten, it's your own lookout.
Kirstiriera, I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you saying you want to play as Bulgaria?

Alright guys, heres Belgian events page:

Events (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9307294#post9307294)

I guess Id like to be Italy, just for the WWII appeal

I believe someone has already claimed Italy.

I guess Id like to be Italy, just for the WWII appeal
Italy is taken. Please read the First Post thoroughly.

Italian news thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=433635

For the person who wishes to play as Korea: in essence, I was planning on allying Japan and China and basically doing their alliance's will until I industrialised enough to do something about them.

Emperor Kojong is the Hwangje, or Emperor (I erroneously stated Hwangju in some threads, I think). He is also known as Emperor Gojong (alternate spelling). Sometimes he is reffered to as Wang, or king, but he declared that Korea was now the Daehan gukje or Great Han Empire, with Dae being great, Han being Han, and gukje being Empire. Guk means nation. Han is not referring to Han Chinese, but Hangul, the writing system of Korea, Hangul.

Anyways, Kojong has two main sons, Prince Gang and Prince Sunjong. Gang is more the hothead, and is likely to resist any occupation by foriegn forces. But he never acquired power. Prince Sunjong was more pro-Japanese and he became Emperor in 1905ish after the Japanese Emperor forced Korea into a protectorate and removed Kojong. Kojong himself is angered with Japan for killing his wife, Empress Min, and he refuses to speak with those he thinks are part of the plot. Kojong was a good ruler who initiated many reforms, but his wife's death meant Korea was going to be annexed (in our history, at least) as she managed to keep a balance of power between China, Japan, and Russia.

In the alternate history territory, Korea wants land. Many Koreans live in Manchuria, and so I have made Korea covet all of Manchuria. Manchuria also has coking coal for Korea's steel industry (Korea has iron and some coal resources), so it all is a plus if it can be taken. Russia is mad at Korea, China and Japan are in a conference with Korea right now discussing alliance, and Austria-Hungary sent troops to Korea on Korea's behest to conquer Manchuria, though A-H backpedaled and now the troops are just there. That's about all I can think of, the rest is up to you. Just search my name and find the conference and news threads.

If this guy still wants to RP Korea, I'll accept it. However, he needs to pick off where Fluffywuffy left off.

I'll wait a few more days, and see if this dude posts here again and says "I still want Korea". If he doesn't, Korea might as well stay open for the next player who is actually interested in challenge. :)

Bump for the night

Yes, Bulgaria.

My scheme is basically to become an independent kingdom for the early part of the century and to heavily involved in the Southeastern part of Europe. Hopefully, Bulgaria will develop into a nation who will serve the world in the best way we could for the rest of the century...My nation may not be as well developed as the others...I am sorry if I was vague before hand.

It's fine. Just make a news thread, post the link here, and begin your destiny!!!

Bump again...

Good bye Emperor Franz Josef and hellow Emperor Franz Ferdinand!

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9315678#post9315678

On the 3rd March will be the coronation of HRH Crown Prince Ferdinand at the Eastern Palace of Sofia...and at the Parliament House in Sofia.
Any nation can be represented at this royal celebration (even Austria-Hungary)...,but security around Sofia will be very tight throughout due to the unstable situation in the region.

In other news: University of Sofia students, several labour unions and many large farmers plan to make a protest against the Ottomans and for "Complete Liberation" in front of the University courtyard during and after the coronation. Other demonstrations and ceremonies honouring the new King are planned in different major cities in Bulgaria on that day as well.

All flags in Bulgaria will be at half-staff for the day and to honour Austria's fallen Emperor Franz Josef.

I would like to play denmark

Population in 1903 2,520,000

(OOC: I'm not sure where to put this, considering that I want attention from Britain and other nations. As this thread is viewed the most, I suppose, I'll post it here and then post another, more detailed, post in the Italian News thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=433635). Vittorio purposefully leaves out France in his speech; seeing as how he is trying to court France into friendship, he felt mentioning France would tick France off.)

Today King Vittorio Emanuele III (OOC: I finally found his Italian name) announced that Italy's destiny was "to rule the Mediteranean with a wall of steel and a cloud of smoke, with a navy unmatched in our sea. The British and even the Russians and Turks have navies in this sea or quite close, and all of their local resources must be surpassed. This is not meant as a threat to any of the above nations: it is our rightful destiny to have a significant naval presence in the sea that our forefathers, the Romans, once ruled over. History must come circle, and Italy must once again be the homeland of a mighty nation."

Italian naval planners began designing a new warship to compete with the powerful British warships. Military commentators from several nations had, in the past, theorized that secondary guns on a battleship were useless and that only the big guns really counted. It was decided that Italy would build four all-big-gun warship and retire a few of the older battleships. Designers began rushing to come up with the design (expect that in a few days; these things take time) while Italian shipyards would continue with the four laid Regina Elena battleships, with two of the Regina Elena's expected to be completed by mid-1904 with the others in early 1906.

a quick note on warships..... the US took 32 months to build the Iowa class battleship, during wartime, using day and night shifts. The British built the Dreadnought (roughly a third the Iowa's size) in about 13 months, once again because it was urgent. Dreadnoughts will take about 36 months to build, although only 32 for the US, Germany and Britian (at a more normal pace). Cruisers, which average 3000-12000 tons, will take about 24 months, destroyers and similar sized ships (including submarines) take about 12 months.

Figure about 50,000 tons of build space at the average shipyard, the US has several, the Germans as well, the British even more, but the Russians, Italians, and French have only two really, and the Austrians, and Japanese really only have one (actually both have several, but the total aggragrate tonnage capacity is about the same as the 50,000 ton figure).

For comparision, the Newport News Naval Shipyard, which routinely builds Nimitz class carriers, has the capacity to only build one Nimitz class, refit one at the same time, do a SLEP on another, and capacity for a couple of cruiser sized ships (usually nuclear subs) and it is the biggest naval shipyard in the world in our time (roughly 500,000 tons capacity) and the most modern, and it took until about 1960 to get that big. Most US naval shipyards, and Soviet ones, during the Cold War were a third or quarter that size.

Italy, by the way, hasn't really had the first hand experience the Japanese and Americans had (Sino Japanese War and Spanish American War), and the British had observers on hand during both wars.... which is why the Japanese, Americans and British historically started theres first. The Italians got the idea shortly after, along with the same kind of turret arrangements the Americans insistuted with their Dreadnoughts, but were slower to build because they had further to go design wise.

I strongly suggest we keep to historical producation dates if possible for capital ships, because they do represent the best those nations could do at the time. The 4 battlecruisers the US is planning in my thread are being developed because the US is not building 2 pre dreadnoughts, and 4 armored cruisers. Which work out to be the same tonnage as the 4 battlecruisers will be.

OOC: I am sticking close to historical production on the four battleships--they really are more like battlecruisers anyways--with them being completed a little earlier due to Vittorio's call for a "challenge" to the British navy and ramped up production.

The "Savoy" is essentially going to be a bigger Regina Elena with big guns and a diesel. The later Italian dreadnaughts are going to come about historically (1909 was when the first was laid), but if that is too much for you I will be glad to hold off on them for a few more years and just build more Regina Elenas. Oh yeah, France and Italy have a deal to build a new shipyard in southern Italy, from the last day of 1902, I believe. I suppose that gives us 2.5 shipyards each when the shipyard is completed. How long should construction of one take, and at what cost? Because if I can afford it, I'll build a few more shipyards so I can really have a decently sized navy.

OOC: At the moment, I have a few serious issues in my life that I need to deal with and I'm not sure how much time I'll have to spend on my computer, let alone on NS and I was wondering if I could have someone cover Germany's involvement until I've dealt with these problems.

I'd really rather not drop out of this completely as I really like the concept, but if I need to because of real life issues or the rules of the roleplay, then I understand.

I don't know what to do now that i have declared my country, what is next

OOC: I am sticking close to historical production on the four battleships--they really are more like battlecruisers anyways--with them being completed a little earlier due to Vittorio's call for a "challenge" to the British navy and ramped up production.

The "Savoy" is essentially going to be a bigger Regina Elena with big guns and a diesel. The later Italian dreadnaughts are going to come about historically (1909 was when the first was laid), but if that is too much for you I will be glad to hold off on them for a few more years and just build more Regina Elenas. Oh yeah, France and Italy have a deal to build a new shipyard in southern Italy, from the last day of 1902, I believe. I suppose that gives us 2.5 shipyards each when the shipyard is completed. How long should construction of one take, and at what cost? Because if I can afford it, I'll build a few more shipyards so I can really have a decently sized navy.

Figure about 2 years to build a naval shipyard in peacetime, half that in wartime, and a quarter of that time once tech level 6 is reached. A big reason ships at tech level 4 and 5 take so long is because welding is very limited until tech level 6, everything is pretty much bolted together. That is very time consuming to say the least.

It might be a bit early for diesel marine engines of any size, the first major warship to have them was the Deutchland (1925), before that diesel engines were only used as auxilery powerplants or for submarines.

I see. So I've just begun expanding my shipyards from what amounts to 2 to 6.5 in my Italian News Thread. Is this reasonable? Of course, it's going to take 2 years to finish the .5 (under construction since late 1902) and 2 years for each of the other four yards, all being constructed at the same time. At 50,000 tons each, that's 325,000 tons I can construct when completed. If 6.5 shipyards for Italy is reasonable by mid 1905, how much higher could Italy go?

EDIt: And I'll scrap the diesel for now

OOC: At the moment, I have a few serious issues in my life that I need to deal with and I'm not sure how much time I'll have to spend on my computer, let alone on NS and I was wondering if I could have someone cover Germany's involvement until I've dealt with these problems.

I'd really rather not drop out of this completely as I really like the concept, but if I need to because of real life issues or the rules of the roleplay, then I understand.

As the "Chief" of this Earh, I support you continuing to RP here. I do fully understand RL issues take precendence, it has happened to me many times over the last year I've been here in NS.

Therefore, if you can find someone willing to fill in for Germany for you until you come back, then everything will be good to go. Perhaps a friend or something who would be interested in this RP stuff?

I see. So I've just begun expanding my shipyards from what amounts to 2 to 6.5 in my Italian News Thread. Is this reasonable? Of course, it's going to take 2 years to finish the .5 (under construction since late 1902) and 2 years for each of the other four yards, all being constructed at the same time. At 50,000 tons each, that's 325,000 tons I can construct when completed. If 6.5 shipyards for Italy is reasonable by mid 1905, how much higher could Italy go?

EDIt: And I'll scrap the diesel for now


thats probably about as far as it can go... remember, the real life Italian Navy was pretty big, and the Italians, like nearly everyone (except the Americans, who didn't build to their economic limit until the middle of World War II) else, built to the limit they could afford, plus they also had to maintain that fleet, pay the sailors etc.... so you can probably build up a fleet quicker, and replace losses a bit easier, the absolute size of the Italian fleet should be limited to its historical level ... otherwise the economics mods will have to do a LOT more work. For playability sake, please aim for historical figures.

I regret that I will no longer be able to play Argentina.

As the "Chief" of this Earh, I support you continuing to RP here. I do fully understand RL issues take precendence, it has happened to me many times over the last year I've been here in NS.

Therefore, if you can find someone willing to fill in for Germany for you until you come back, then everything will be good to go. Perhaps a friend or something who would be interested in this RP stuff?

I suggest that if the German player is only going to be unavailable for a couple of weeks we are fine, and if he can give us some general guidelines (whether Germany is building its fleet per historical is the main issue) then its not a problem. IF its going to be longer, than we should have a new German player though, and the player can rejoin later (I am sure we will need replacements at some point for a Great Power).

Population in 1903 2,520,000

basically once the moderators give you a go, then you may start

sure you wouldn't rather be Sweden though? They have the ability to be a much bigger actor on the world stage than a very weak Denmark has.

I suggest that if the German player is only going to be unavailable for a couple of weeks we are fine, and if he can give us some general guidelines (whether Germany is building its fleet per historical is the main issue) then its not a problem. IF its going to be longer, than we should have a new German player though, and the player can rejoin later (I am sure we will need replacements at some point for a Great Power).
I agree with GB, here. Germany is too central to allow for reduced activity over a prolonged timespan. You can see how simply signing a non-aggression pact with France before going on an unannounced vacation for a couple weeks caused a complete panic among all the other states of European states, and even one South American.
Moreover, GB's predictions of future reshufflings is pretty accurate, I think, based on the shuffles we've had already, so it's not as if new opportunities won't present themselves to players who've taken breaks.

In other matters, Sweden is still played by Palixia, though I haven't seen him (?) do anything in the past couple of weeks other than say "I'm still in." Anyway, Kirstiriera and Vietnamexico are going to be the last players I will accept who have not followed the application procedure outlined in the First Post. I may end up posting this on every page, if necessary, but I really can't keep up with "Hey, can I play as <Blank>?" if it's just put anywhere in the thread. So stop it. If Sharina says I have to take somebody, he's got the final authority, but otherwise that's it.
As for those who are wondering what to do next, you start a new thread for your country: don't post news on the Out-of-Character Thread (i.e., this one). And look at the links to other countries news threads in the First Post, and communicate with them In-Character either that way or through Telegram.

Okay, regarding Germany and Aequatio...

I'm inclined to adopt GB and VP's opinions on this, as their points are quite excellent ones. HOWEVER, I want to keep the option open for Aequatio to rejoin as Germany down the line when and if his RL life situations get better and he'll be able to RP more again.

It's only fair that a player is given a chance to re-take the reins of his / her former nation, only if the player is a good and respectable RP'er. If it is a newbie or someone with little RP experience, then nope.

Hope I made sense, and what do you think, GB and VP?

GB: The fleet will probably stay about the same size as historical levels, though I am interested in increasing quality in Italian designs. Also, the shipyards are useful in producing merchant ships for sale to other nations so that once the fleet is completed and a rush is not needed, southern Italy can produce ships and experience economic growth. How much is up to the other economods to decide (such as yourself), though I don't expect a massive overnight increase.

*cough*

I would be willing to selflessly and honorably take over, I mean, take control of the Great Nation of Germany. I'm sure I could find a way to RP policy changes (someone kicks out Wilhelm, etc.) and I could just have Persia continue in the ravages of civil war.

I have no objection to that. After all, Germany is far more important on the World Stage that Persia (no offense) and without it, we wont have much of an RP going for very long.

Okay, regarding Germany and Aequatio...

I'm inclined to adopt GB and VP's opinions on this, as their points are quite excellent ones. HOWEVER, I want to keep the option open for Aequatio to rejoin as Germany down the line when and if his RL life situations get better and he'll be able to RP more again.

It's only fair that a player is given a chance to re-take the reins of his / her former nation, only if the player is a good and respectable RP'er. If it is a newbie or someone with little RP experience, then nope.

Hope I made sense, and what do you think, GB and VP?
Well, I think it's pretty subjective--but on the other hand, subjectivity in and of itself is unavoidable (after all, I wouldn't be playing as Russia without the approval of my peers), and making those kinds of judgments is exactly why we have Moderators in the first place. So, basically, I agree with you, Sharina.
In the meantime, Parthini's a good choice for Germany--ruthlessly expansionistic and absolutist. Hopefully he won't totally run it into the ground by attacking the world--but then again, that's pretty much what Germany was all about in the first half of the twentieth century anyway. So at least he'd be in character. And it sure would grab everybody's attention.

Well, I think it's pretty subjective--but on the other hand, subjectivity in and of itself is unavoidable (after all, I wouldn't be playing as Russia without the approval of my peers), and making those kinds of judgments is exactly why we have Moderators in the first place. So, basically, I agree with you, Sharina.
In the meantime, Parthini's a good choice for Germany--ruthlessly expansionistic and absolutist. Hopefully he won't totally run it into the ground by attacking the world--but then again, that's pretty much what Germany was all about in the first half of the twentieth century anyway. So at least he'd be in character. And it sure would grab everybody's attention.

Thanks VP. I believe a good "Chief" listens to the opinions of people involved with him. :)

Parthini has my stamp of approval to take up Germany while Aequatio is gone. Ladies and Gentlemen, please start your RP'ing engines. :D

And I've been meaning to ask, Sharina, if I have the right link to your News Thread. I haven't seen any new posts there for a couple weeks, and I'm not sure if China's just being really quiet or I have the wrong address.

And I've been meaning to ask, Sharina, if I have the right link to your News Thread. I haven't seen any new posts there for a couple weeks, and I'm not sure if China's just being really quiet or I have the wrong address.

This is my timeline thread, where I write a summary of events for every year, 1900, 1901, 1902, and so on.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=432834

However, I do not have a formal thread for foreign powers and the like to contact me, or initate diplomacy. All the diplomacy happened in the Boxer Thread, so.... :p

Quiet, then. Cool.
You could probably just adapt that thread to be a diplomatic one, as well, of course.

basically once the moderators give you a go, then you may start

sure you wouldn't rather be Sweden though? They have the ability to be a much bigger actor on the world stage than a very weak Denmark has.


Ok, i'll be sweden

Ahem, attention please!

Zee peoples of zee world vil soon fell zee wrath of zee Deutch FIST!!

Oh, pardon me.... Do I just continue through the old Germany threads?

Parthini']Do I just continue through the old Germany threads?
I think so. I'd check with Aequatio, and if he doesn't reply by, say, tomorrow, then just pick up where he left off.

And Vietnamexico, please read the First Post carefully.

Okay, I fixed up my Chinese Timeline thread. I reserved 4 extra posts, and a factbook post. Anyone can star RP'ing diplomacy or whatever activity they want to do with China in there now.

Okay, I fixed up my Chinese Timeline thread. I reserved 4 extra posts, and a factbook post. Anyone can star RP'ing diplomacy or whatever activity they want to do with China in there now.

Sorry, again. What was I thinking?...

Thanks to the whole community and the chief for understanding my plight, as things are got pretty bad and I wasn't sure how long I'd be out. It may only be a week or two, any longer and I'll just come back and hand over Germany to whomever.

[NS]Parthini: Thanks for picking up the slack for me, send me a telegram and I'll just explain to you about what I was already up to with Germany and some of my short term plans and goals.

Stara Royal News Agency of Sofia is now in business...

Anyone who wants to deal with Bulgaria diplomatically or other wise can go to the Stara Nova- Bulgaria thread...

It would be great if you posted a link to your Stara news thread here, so that it can be edited into the first post. It would also make us not have to search for it on our own...

Eh. I went ahead and found it on my own, and edited it into the First Post anyway. Figured I'd already ridden the poor kid hard enough for awhile.

some important stuff in 1902-03
The Germans and British intervened in Venezuela, which was busy having a civil war and owed them lots of money from loans they obtained to build railroads. This eventually led to the Drago Doctrine, and eventually to the Hague Convention of 1907, which basically states that force is only legal if used in self defense

good paper can be found here

http://www.yale.edu/irspeakers/Finnemore.doc

It also led historically to the Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine

I'm going to be out of town thursday thru saturday, maybe till sunday. Just a heads up.

Nothin' like camping and running the Bix 7 baby!

gonna be out from Sundy through to 14th of August

I'm going to be out of town thursday thru saturday, maybe till sunday. Just a heads up.

Nothin' like camping and running the Bix 7 baby!
But, but, how am I going to eat you if you're on vacation?!? Zounds, you're a devilish foe!
What is Bix 7, anyway?

Oh yeah, and Spooty, try and find a sub, if you can, like Aequatio did.

yes, an excellent idea, anyone wanna take on the Role of France for awhile?

After doing research for my "Savoy" design for the Italian navy, I've decided that its doing to be a scaled down HMS Dreadnought, with less armor and less guns. It will, however, be faster than the ship that sparked an entire class of warship. The "Savoy" will be similar to the Regina Elena-class pre-dreadnaughts, though will be longer and weigh more. It will, in essence, be a sort of "pocket dreadnaught" that is faster than other dreadnoughts. The armament will make it more powerful than older ships, though.

The Regina Elena has 2 x 12" guns and 12 x 8", two torpedo tubes, and 24 3" guns. Armor: Belt: 9.9", Deck: 1.4", 12" Turrets: 7.9", 8" Turrets: 5.9".

I expect the Savoy to have 8 x 12" guns (in two three-gun turrets--one to the fore of the ship, and one to the aft--and another aft two-gun turret),two torpedo tubes, and six 3" guns to fend off torpedo boats. Armor: Belt is 10", Deck is 1.5", and the 12" turrets have 9" of armor. This is lighter than the HMS Dreadnought's armament (and armor) and that of later Italian dreadnought clones. Powered by steam turbines and displacing about 15,000 tons, the Savoy would cruise at 24 knots with a range of 5,000 nm at 10 knots.

Any qualms with the design? With Italian construction, the Savoys would be ready in 1909, if laid in 1906.

good design Italy, although probably should add another 6 3'' inch guns, appropriate for the period and for Italian naval philosophy, which emphasized speed over protection

sorryive been out for 2-3 days but i had some company come to town and havent had a chance to check any forums...hope i didnt miss too much

I promise this will be the last technology question I ask in this thread. Well, maybe not promise, but hope, anyways. This idea has multiple uses, from high-speed pumps to faster ships. Anyways, you take a boiler like in a steam engine. You then take a long metal tube and place it underwater, both ends being open. The high-pressure steam from the boiler is sent to the tube, where it condenses when it hits the water. This creates a vacuum effect, which sucks the water through the tube at high speeds, producing thrust.

From this design, there really are no moving parts, making it low-maintanence. It could, I suppose, use exhaust from other engines (such as diesels) to create steam (the exhaust is hot, after all) which then flows into the metal tube to produce some extra thrust.

But anyways, it now boils down to this question: what is the earliest that someone could conceive of and build this engine? Let's just suppose that someone conceives of it now, in 1903. Is there any reason (other than potential conceiving problems) that a tube the length of a ship cannot be built? My guess is that this engine will have to wait until the jet engine is built to provide inspiration. If not, perhaps the invention of it now would drive others to attempt (with many failures and crazy ideas like the race for flight) to build this engine for land purposes.

Big water tanks feeding water into a tube (by gravity, perhaps) with steam leading into it could perhaps be built as a land version, with two fuels (one for boiling, such as coal, and the other being large quantities of water). That would make an interesting alternate history in and of itself, and it could get even funnier once the Wright brothers come around, as people inevitably attempt flying with this engine. I'd have to imagine the brutal Darwinian process with people being killed trying to fly with bird suits would change into one with airplanes diving like a rock off the face of a cliff, weighed down by large water tanks and steam engines.

I promise this will be the last technology question I ask in this thread. Well, maybe not promise, but hope, anyways. This idea has multiple uses, from high-speed pumps to faster ships. Anyways, you take a boiler like in a steam engine. You then take a long metal tube and place it underwater, both ends being open. The high-pressure steam from the boiler is sent to the tube, where it condenses when it hits the water. This creates a vacuum effect, which sucks the water through the tube at high speeds, producing thrust.

From this design, there really are no moving parts, making it low-maintanence. It could, I suppose, use exhaust from other engines (such as diesels) to create steam (the exhaust is hot, after all) which then flows into the metal tube to produce some extra thrust.

But anyways, it now boils down to this question: what is the earliest that someone could conceive of and build this engine? Let's just suppose that someone conceives of it now, in 1903. Is there any reason (other than potential conceiving problems) that a tube the length of a ship cannot be built? My guess is that this engine will have to wait until the jet engine is built to provide inspiration. If not, perhaps the invention of it now would drive others to attempt (with many failures and crazy ideas like the race for flight) to build this engine for land purposes.

Big water tanks feeding water into a tube (by gravity, perhaps) with steam leading into it could perhaps be built as a land version, with two fuels (one for boiling, such as coal, and the other being large quantities of water). That would make an interesting alternate history in and of itself, and it could get even funnier once the Wright brothers come around, as people inevitably attempt flying with this engine. I'd have to imagine the brutal Darwinian process with people being killed trying to fly with bird suits would change into one with airplanes diving like a rock off the face of a cliff, weighed down by large water tanks and steam engines.

This sounds pretty interesting. I'm not a techno-nerd or a technology expert. Although, I can imagine using this kind of steam technology by 1910 or 1920, I think.

Maybe GB or another technology expert can answer this question.

Fluffywuffy, I don't have the technical expertise to tell you if that is possible or not, but since steam turbine engines are still experimental at this point in history, I would say its way too soon. Perhaps in the 1940s

Steam engines are definatly possible.

I'd say that this is a possible invention... but not by the Koreans.

I'm Italy, comrade Artitsa, and that is not your normal steam engine or steam turbine. It's more like a steam-powered jet engine that runs underwater and has no moving parts.

Now, for more of my ideas on this invention and responses to other people's comments.

Yeah, it probably is unlikely that anyone would build this at this point in time. There are, quite simply, many different engine technologies at this point in time for people to choose from, ranging from differing steam engine designs to gasoline internal combustion engines, diesel engines, gas turbines, and electric motors. Warships, automobiles, and industrial applications of all kinds all use these varying designs, and it is likely they aren't going to look for any other engine designs, what with all the choices they have.

Secondo Campini (an Italian inventor) historically took interest in the thermojet in the 1930s. Perhaps Campini decides not to look at the thermojet (it was less powerful than a propellor, but worked on the same basic principle of a jet engine. It was, however, powered by a normal piston engine) and decides he can create something that works on the same principle but underwater, perhaps on a submarine design (though the steam would make that impracticle, except on nuclear subs).

Working with a variety of engines, Campini decides that the steam engine is perfect for this: it provides high-pressure steam. He creates a tube to run the steam into, to provide thrust merely from the steam. His tube has a hole in it on the other side--by accident--and Campini doesn't notice. He runs the experiment and, seeing success (though inefficient as he wouldn't shape the chamber properly), tries one without the hole, thinking that it might have lost efficiency due to the hole. Seeing failure with no hole, Campini tries various hole sizes and shaping of the internal chamber to discover something with efficiency comparable to that of normal steam engines. As the tube itself can be hung below the ship, you could potentially see the tube (or tubes) rotate to help steer. Some other inventor can discover that idea.

That's the most reasonable scenario for development of this engine for my nation that I can think of. Later inventors from other nations could then see that the engine pumps water, redesign it for every-day pumps, and use it in that sector. As this engine can generate a mist that is apparantly useful for firefighting, it could be used there.

After doing more research in this design, it appears as if the company that presented this idea is, in fact, a fraud. What makes me think this is that the company that said it had created this idea couldn't discuss anything until after the patent was completed--but you can spill all the beans once it is filled, so I am scraping all these plans until further notice.

Well, shouldn't we have a little gathering every 3-4 years in different country to celebrate humanity as well as its advancements like a world's exhibition as well as having a sporting festival every four years...

For 1904: Both would be in Forest or Washington Park in St. Louis, MO, USA.
1908: Scheduled Olympics in Rome, but London as back up.
(Special Sports Festival in Athens for 1906)...

Well, shouldn't we have a little gathering every 3-4 years in different country to celebrate humanity as well as its advancements like a world's exhibition as well as having a sporting festival every four years...

For 1904: Both would be in Forest or Washington Park in St. Louis, MO, USA.
1908: Scheduled Olympics in Rome, but London as back up.
(Special Sports Festival in Athens for 1906)...

Actually, I think thats an excellent idea. It could pull in more interest for E20, while helping nations improve diplomacy and serve as a possible springboard for more friendships or "understanding" of various nations.

Well, shouldn't we have a little gathering every 3-4 years in different country to celebrate humanity as well as its advancements like a world's exhibition as well as having a sporting festival every four years...

For 1904: Both would be in Forest or Washington Park in St. Louis, MO, USA.
1908: Scheduled Olympics in Rome, but London as back up.
(Special Sports Festival in Athens for 1906)...
I agree. The Olympics, especially, are a pretty important political event to the future Eastern Bloc nations (assuming that that happens . . .). And some festival of achievements at a World's Fair might prove interesting. And if not, we can always stop. So no drawbacks.

Where has Britain been? I noticed LB post something about being gone or something, but it's almost been a week since he last posted, if I recall correctly. I really need Britain to post if they are willing to trade Eritrea (and potentially Italian parts of Somalia) for Libya because it is going to be very important to my plans and relations with several nations. The Ottomans agreed to give Britain Libya (and if they didn't do that, I'd have started the Italo-Turkish war early) and so I need to know. If not, then some nations might want to be concerned that war is knocking on their door....

So, if LB doesn't post soon, will the moderators rule on this, or must I use what little patience I have for longer?

I belive LB said he was going out of town or something I can't find the post, where he said that..

I believe LR said he was going on a camping trip, or something? If he doesn't post by this Monday (he should be back by then), then we can discuss what to do.

I believe LR said he was going on a camping trip, or something? If he doesn't post by this Monday (he should be back by then), then we can discuss what to do.

Don't worry too much about the Brits, give him till Monday at least, and if nothing by Wednesday, then we figure out what to do.


Argentina has a big moment in 1903, the President of that country sets in motion things that will lead to the Hague Convention of 1907 after the British and Germans bully Venezuela and the US lets them because its legal. Is Argentina still around? If not, will Chile or Colombia take over that big moment? It evolved from the Pan American conference held in 1902 historically, and easily could have developed from the one they had in the game

Check my news thread for details, there is a link there

Hmm... I guess I need to wait until he gets back to do bullying.

And I can't bully Austria-Hungary, cuz he's gone.

Argh! Time to put some college students in jail!

ima going out today for a two weeks, this is a last call for ANYONE who wants to caretake France, it's a simple job, the only real requirment being that you post Tour De France results in the L'Auto (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=434661) thread.

Right, I'm back from running the QM stores at scout camp for the week in damp Wales so I can get back to E20.

Sorry for any confusion caused by my disappearence but I did leave a message here, I'll quickly catch up on everything i've missed and resume posting. If I miss anything please TG me.

sigh... another major player out of action for a while (France in this case)

welcome back Great Britain though... at least we have the Germans, Russians, British, Italians, and Japan of the major powers, and some of the regional powers are still around.

What are the various Latin American states planning to say or do about the upcoming crisis in Venezuela? It actually makes difference at this point, so input is needed.

I will start a thread on Monday and provide the background and initial situation. Germany is already moving toward that direction, so its about to become an important crisis.

We can go ahead and just assume that things were delayed because of events in Europe, and have the British and Germans intervene in 1904 to keep things moving along.

OOC:

China is merely building its infrastructure and economy after the Boxer Rebellion with infusions of USA and British investment. I don't think China will be involved in any wars for quite a while, until it can compete with the Westerners in economy and military quality.

So far, my China has built several dynamite factories and is getting ready to build iron and steel mills, as well as sawmills (by the time 1904 rolls around tomorrow night). This will help China build weapons, railroads, mines, farms, better housing, etc.

So unless there's a major threat from Russia or Japan (if it turns traitor), China probably won't see much action until 1920 or so. Perhaps during World War I (if it does happen in this alternate timeline).

I'll reply as Chile, probably with a loud harrumph, if still around during any European intervention in Venezuela.

Guys, I added some more stuff in my timeline. I added extra stuff for 1902, and added events and happenings for 1903.

GB and VP, please let me know what you think of my latest additions. :)

Sorry for not posting anything recently. I got back from my trip and had to get ready to depart again, so i haven't had much time for anything else. I'll be gone from tomorrow until next saturday and possibly until monday. Hope you can forgive my absence.

Guys, I added some more stuff in my timeline. I added extra stuff for 1902, and added events and happenings for 1903.

GB and VP, please let me know what you think of my latest additions. :)

Galveston Bay here... which timeline?

Galveston Bay here... which timeline?

This one...

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=432834

I'm baaaaaaack! Anyway, what did I miss?

waaaaaaaa I lost my territory. ah well thats what happens..... I guesss. i was on holiday for yonks..

anyways just wondering are you still taking in participants??? If I can Id like to be portugal if thats ok..

I'm baaaaaaack! Anyway, what did I miss?

Everyone simultaneously attacked Austria-Hungary and divided it among themselves. You are now left with a mere ice cream stand and four dollars. :D

waaaaaaaa I lost my territory. ah well thats what happens..... I guesss. i was on holiday for yonks..

anyways just wondering are you still taking in participants??? If I can Id like to be portugal if thats ok..

Galveston Bay here.... who were you originally? We apparently don't have a Brazil or a Portugal, and Brazil is actually much more influential in the 20th Century

because I have been requests about the Wright Flyer.... notable aviation events in 1904

This is a list of aviation-related events from 1904:

April

April 1 - Captain Ferdinand Ferber makes a failed attempt to fly an Archdeacon glider at Berck sur Mer, Normandy.
April 3 - Gabriel Voisin successfully flies a modified Archdeacon glider at Berck sur Mer, Normandy. Voisin added a canard to the design. His longest flight on this day was 25 seconds.
May

May 23 - First flight of the Wright Flyer II.
June

The British Army tests Samuel Cody's person-carrying kites at Aldershot.
September

September 20 - Wilbur Wright makes the first circuit flight, in the Flyer II.
November

November 9 - Wilbur Wright flies the Wright Flyer II a distance of 3 miles near Dayton, Ohio, the first flight of longer than five minutes.
Events

The Wrights apply for patents for their flying machine in Germany and France.

Remember the first flight was only in December 1903, and there was a lot of skepticism initially overseas until the Wright Brothers made a visit to Europe in 1908. Rigid and Non rigid airships have been flying a bit longer (since 1900) and they seem to show a bit more promise, but the first really reliable Zeppelin is still a couple of years away too (1906)

Thanks for the info GB.

For those of you who are interested I have added a map to the foreign possessions thread which i'll update as the RP progresses.

It can be found HERE (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9136878#post9136878)

All of the big players have their empires marked on and i'm working on the other countries. Countries in white are currently independent.

in other technological news.... the wireless telegraph (the radio) is now common enough on ships for the international distress call "CQD" to be formalized in 1904. That distress call becomes "SOS" in 1906. It still didn't help the Titantic much.

The Russo Japanese War historically begins very soon, in February. No sign of that yet in this timeline though. The events that are fictionalized in the movie "Wind and the Lion" also happen this year. In may. This destabizes Morocco, and allows the French and Spanish to carve it up easier later.

However, in this time line, there is not yet a French-British entente of understanding where the French get Morocco and give up rights to Egypt. Unless I missed something. In addition, as it turns out, the American citizen kidnapped in Morocco was not actually an American citizen. Less prone to act before thinking, McKinley will let the incident be handled at a lower level and with less pressure. Basically give the Raisouli some money and call it a day.

Nothing else really exciting happens this year. Historically anyway.

However in alternate history, the Venezulean crisis that was supposed to happen in 1902-03 will happen in 1904 instead. A good reason is that the British and Germans had other things on their mind (as they did), and will therefore be even more annoyed.

hey guys just a heads up i wont be posting much if any until august 8 because i have a lot of homework that i need to do before school starts

I was new zealand.... but i think il move to warmer climes and become Brazil.... i dont know much about brazils history without sterotyping..... lol.

but i will give it a go. wikipedia is a good source of information isnt it????

I knew brazil had a fleeting Empire how long did that last for????

um on second thought can I play as Ukraine???? the west part of the country was very nationalistic from what i hear. and Itd be fun to give the russians a scare. :)

Hmm... I wouldn't advise giving the Russians an attempted scare. Check out what happened to Lithuania.

Go with Brazil. The Empire was just an empire because there was an emperor. Then some army guys overthrew him and made it a dictatorship. Plus there are more resources to deal with there. That and there are WAAAAY too many people in Europe, IMO.

yeah i guess your right......... Okies from now on Im brazil......... yay

anyway heres a link to my nations history and current events, internal affairs e.t.c.

Please add it to my nation when you can. thanxs...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9358252#post9358252post9358252

Just letting all our south american brothers and comrades know. there is a new Government in control of Brazil ( controlled by me zeeeland) under the leadership of president Francisco de paula Rodreguez Alves. we hope we can maintain cordial relations with all south american nations and remain on good terms...


-The new Brazilian government-

Zeeland is confirmed as Brazil, and I changed the year over to 1904.
I've come to the conclusion that we need a standard procedure for dealing with vacant states, and states which are vacant by default. I'm taking suggestions.

Would it be possible to play as New Zealand?

attention Germany (parthini)

Are you sure about the numbers in the Venezuelan intervention? 4 Army Corps works out to be 8 divisions plus support units, or roughly 100,000 men. This would require a fleet of transports (roughly 50 - 100 cargo and passenger ships), or roughly 300,000 - 500,000 tons of shipping ( a lot of your merchant marine).

How big are your fleets? If you mean squadrons that would work out to be about a dozen cruisers and battleships, plus several colliers, destroyers, and dispatch boats. In all this would be about 50 warships and support ships all told.

To say that an armada this big steaming into South American waters would alarm the Americans is an understatement.

If you didn't mean for the force to be this big, I would recommend a force of about a dozen warships (mostly cruisers and gunboats) and about a dozen transports carrying about 20,000 men (or roughly 4 brigades)

I will be gone for a couple of days. I'm going to my grandmother's beach house where there is no internet access. It doesn't even have a phone! :eek: So I won't be able to log-in and do E20 or any NS stuff until Friday.

I'll see you guys on Friday. Have fun blowing up or backstab each other. :p

Our AH World's Fair in St. Louis is scheduled to begin around June of 1904 with our AH Olympics scheduled to begin in July of 1904... Every nation is invited to take part in this exhibition and these games that go with it...

It means that the World's Fair starts on Wednesday and the Olympics start on Thursday if you are using current time...

(What should we do if a nation that is not active is involved with the fair and the games?)

We'll have to figure out what it means exactly to RP things like the World's Fairs and the Olympics. I mean, do we have to come up with expositions, or pretend to compete as athletes?

We should try to figure out how the things were run and the basic things of that nature... for right now it should go as close to what really happened as possible considering the directions of the role play.
We may not have to do those things in our real physical lives, but we should try to run something like a world's fair or an olympics in a logical and realistic way...

Future Sites Now Selected are:
Expo 1910: Brussels
Olympic Games 1912: Stockholm

World Naval Balance 1905 posted here

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9369433&postcount=55

I didn't post China, Chile, and a few others... if you want them posted, please send me a telegram or post yourself.... I would appreciate it.

Armies will come later.

Italy, your army is organized way too small, 200,000 men is big enough to form nearly 8 corps after mobilization. Everyone accepted that bigger was better in the early 20th Century except for the Americans and British (for different reasons mostly having to do with their democratic traditions)

As military moderator I am going to assume Venezuela rapidly surrenders, as it did in real life. Mostly because we don't have a player for it, and they can't effectively resist in any case.

OK, should I bump it up to 300,000, with another 200K in reserves?

OK, should I bump it up to 300,000, with another 200K in reserves?

apparently the numbers are about right, its the organization thats off

information on the Italian Army here

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWitaly.htm

http://www.worldwar1.com/itafront/

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-conflicts-periods/ww1/italian_army.htm

basically, by 1915, Italy has 25 infantry and 4 cavalry divisions, but is weak in artillery, machine guns, and leadership and training is deficient except for a few of the more elite regiments that trace histories back to the Kingdom of Savoy (the mountain troops mostly)

It's interesting you mention the alpine troops, as those are the only troops I actually found information on. Anyways, thanks for the info, I'll update the Italian numbers and such in the military thread in a little bit.

Although it may best fit in the American news thread, I'm making this post and thinking about this at the same time. John Holland, one of the original pioneers of submarines, is currently cash-strapped and looking for work (his company historically edged him out and patented all of his designs. They even sued him for using the named "Holland"). So, I was wondering if Italy could hire him and have him work on a new submarine design for Italy.

It's interesting you mention the alpine troops, as those are the only troops I actually found information on. Anyways, thanks for the info, I'll update the Italian numbers and such in the military thread in a little bit.

Although it may best fit in the American news thread, I'm making this post and thinking about this at the same time. John Holland, one of the original pioneers of submarines, is currently cash-strapped and looking for work (his company historically edged him out and patented all of his designs. They even sued him for using the named "Holland"). So, I was wondering if Italy could hire him and have him work on a new submarine design for Italy.

no big deal on Holland, he left Electric Boat in 1904, and then did some design work for the Dutch, Russians, Japanese and British according to biography, but failed to get backing because of a lawsuit. In Italy he would be out of reach.. but most shipbuilding nations are exploring submarine design at this point, so it shouldn't matter too much

Can someone offer me some help on the national statistics on Brazil at this time?

like the then population? ( I know the Capital before 1960 was Rio De Janiero, but thats about all Ii know.)

Brazil population in 1900: 17,984,000. It grew something like 2.12% per year from 1900 to 2000, with 1950-1970 showing 3% growth per year.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9371067#post9371067

Viet Nam declares Independence from France.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9371067#post9371067

Viet Nam declares Independence from France.

Galveston Bay here, as the war moderator and comoderator of the RP that is rushing things hugely. See other discussions on this, but basically the rule is that if a player is absent, his country defends the status quo. The other rule is that rebellions take time to build, and this is hugely sudden, especially since a bare generation ago the French crushed rather easily the Vietnamese in battle. And the French didn't even have machine guns then.

since I have a treaty with france, I'll help defend her possesions. plus this gives me something to do.

I have a question concerning NPC nations. Lets say, just hypothetically, that I had some imperial ambitions, which included conquering non-player controlled nations. How would this work? Could I RP the resistance myself, or would I have to get someone, say I don't know Of the council of clan to RP the rebels/resistance for the RP?

Galveston Bay here, as the war moderator and comoderator of the RP that is rushing things hugely. See other discussions on this, but basically the rule is that if a player is absent, his country defends the status quo. The other rule is that rebellions take time to build, and this is hugely sudden, especially since a bare generation ago the French crushed rather easily the Vietnamese in battle. And the French didn't even have machine guns then.

It wasn't supposed to be a Revoultion. France and the Vietnam Independence Movement signed a document in 1900-1901 guaruanteeing Vietnam's Independence within the decade. At the time France had agreed to remove it's troops peacefully and in small batches. However, the new Government might decide to dis honortaht agreement, and as the player is absent the troops will defend the status quo. either that or I could delete the thread, repost it and wait fro France's player to return.

Galveston Bay here.... as war moderator I would tell you what you were dealing with, and if necessary, I would find a volunteer or another moderator could also, handle any resistance...

kind of depends what you are planning though,

It wasn't supposed to be a Revoultion. France and the Vietnam Independence Movement signed a document in 1900-1901 guaruanteeing Vietnam's Independence within the decade. At the time France had agreed to remove it's troops peacefully and in small batches. However, the new Government might decide to dis honortaht agreement, and as the player is absent the troops will defend the status quo. either that or I could delete the thread, repost it and wait fro France's player to return.

I remembered something along those lines, but couldn't remember the details or if it was the same French player. Could you provide the thread reference please?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=428587

Here ya go.

Galveston Bay here.... as war moderator I would tell you what you were dealing with, and if necessary, I would find a volunteer or another moderator could also, handle any resistance...

kind of depends what you are planning though,

The new government was hoping that France would withdraw it's troops, as they promised. However, if they do not the VRA is prepared to conduct a guerilla war and wipe out small garrisons. As of now the VRA is small and made of volounteers. It is poorly armed, but they are fighting on their home turf. They are hoping that more will volounteer to help liberate theeir country.

ok, its a different player that was playing France at the time... hmm.... lets give the current French player a week and see what happens I guess

of course, the French Republic has been pretty flakey in this timeline so far (seeing as it has had 2 players so far), so yet another change in policy wouldn't be unreasonable.. (chuckle)

of course, the French Republic has been pretty flakey in this timeline so far (seeing as it has had 2 players so far), so yet another change in policy wouldn't be unreasonable.. (chuckle)

Ooooh!! Diss! :eek:

In other news: I will be visiting friends from the 11th-14th, so my posting will be limited to at most once a day. The next weekend I start school :mad: so my posting will be limited to evenings/weekends. (I go to a boarding school where I have to go to the library for online stuff :headbang: )

Never fear! I will remain true and vigilant in my quest for Teutonic glory! :cool:

Yeah, I start school on the 17th so I too will be limited to evenings and weekends (Our school has a web-site blocker and it blocks everything).

I'll be gone this weekend, so no posts from me after tomorrow.

Heh...I don't have to go back until the 22nd.

But anyway, since South Africa won't be doing much until I get self-government from Britain, I'll volunteer my services to RP resistance in vasions of non-player countries.

*declares war on South Africa* Now you've got something to do!

In all seriousness, school for me starts around the 30th (it may change as I am moving sometime in September, and, therefore, am starting school in another county. No, it doesn't get me any days off...)

In relation to Kordo's question, what if we wanted to be nice and just buy some land from an NPC? Like say, a few islands in the atlantic.

I claim Ukraine

OOC: I going to go nice and easy to make sure that I don't trip up and go off godmodding all over....
IC: In a little out of the way pub in former Prussia and the roots of rebellion are spread. Some obviously more muscle than brain hicks agree with this semi-charismic man. His name was Ven Otto Hankswen. In that night ten followed his lead.

OOC: Umm... you ARE going for Denmark right? Either way, start a thread with the "E20" tag.

OOC: That works to...
IC:
To the assorted leaders of the world:

I Maxen Von Wechersmit herby declare the standing borders of Denmark for all the centuries. I hope to have continue of good relationship betwen Denmark and the other Low Countries. I also ask for a strengthing of all of the armies of here and a diplomatic treaty immediatly sent to Germany and The Ottoman Empire. Also I wish to inact some Social Reforms which include the immediate taxation on the properties of the citizens of this great nation & A reform of power so that in two years the power will have shifted to interdependent province going to be centralized around a core province..


Diplomatic Package Sent to Germany: Coded

Oh mightest Empire of thee Kaiser. Please accept our gift of 10000 Marks as a gestrure of our goodwill and a maratime alliance which will include the military and merchant going vessels.

In all due respect,
President of Denmark.

I claim Ukraine

interesting, but not possible at the moment as the Ukraine is firmly controlled by the Russian Empire ... there is a procedure for entering this RP, go to the first post of this thread and it will tell you what it is.

Denmark is a Kingdom at this time, although a Constitutional Monarchy. It controls Iceland, Greenland, some islands in the North Sea (I want to say the Orkneys, possibly the Shetlands and Faeroes), Spitzbergen, and the Danish Virgin Islands. Its military is weak, and its last war was in 1860, and it lost to Prussia (along with part of its country).

It does however have a fine agricultural economy, a lot of fishing, and its economy would be considered Strong, with a tech level of 3.5

check the economics thread (do a search for the E20 economics thread)

OOC: Denmark, make a thread called "Danish News [E20]" or something. Then I'll reply.

I'm back.

Could someone fill me in? Any stuff involving China? Any moderation needed? Anything interesting (world altering) happening so far?

Just something I thought about...

Has anyone invented powered flight yet?

Yes, the Wright brothers have already flown. That was so 1903! Alberto Santos-Dumont, a Brazilian, will fly the first heavier-than-air aircraft to take off without a catapult in 1906. One of the first uses of the aircraft in wartime (for recon, I think) was in 1911-1912 by Italy in the Italo-Turkish war. Bulgaria would also use them in the First Balkan War, in 1912.

Yes, the Wright brothers have already flown. That was so 1903! Alberto Santos-Dumont, a Brazilian, will fly the first heavier-than-air aircraft to take off without a catapult in 1906. One of the first uses of the aircraft in wartime (for recon, I think) was in 1911-1912 by Italy in the Italo-Turkish war. Bulgaria would also use them in the First Balkan War, in 1912.

I know that. I meant has anyone in this Earth invented it? I haven't seen a thread, and I imagine that would be big news.

Yes, someone has invented it! I believe GB did have the Wrights fly. And various European nations have already invited the Wrights over.

I know that. I meant has anyone in this Earth invented it? I haven't seen a thread, and I imagine that would be big news.

do a search for Galveston Bay, and look in the USA news thread created

I'm back.

Could someone fill me in? Any stuff involving China? Any moderation needed? Anything interesting (world altering) happening so far?

Bump?

Well, probably the most exciting thing that has happened is that I invaded Venezuela because they owe me too much money. That and Vietnam declared independance.

Due to the lack or major developments lately, outside of the Venezuelan conflict, I suggest that instead of moving on to 1905 on monday, we move futher up the time scale, say 1907-1910, somewhere between there.

I don't think we should jump to 1907, just yet. 1905 was a key year, like the Russian-Japanese war begans and alot of other key events happen.

1905 is going to be a key year for Italy, too. In 1905 I'm going to lay down the "Savoy" class, a sorta "transitionary" battleship, moving between pre-dreads and dreads. Also, two new sub designs will be completed (one for domestic use and one for export). I'll also start laying down the ships Brazil ordered and, hopefully, ships China might order.

If we fast-forward to 1907 on Monday, I can't solicit for more trade partners. I will have some nice new ships, but I still want to export more ships so that I can employ more Italians down south and secure some profit for future research, etc.

I suggest that you, Kordo, sell stuff. Got some weapons? Ships? Well then find some poor developing country, secure trade agreements, and offer to sell them some ships/weapons. Or if you have any valuable exports, contact a wealthier nation and sell the product there. You don't always have to blow stuff up to have entertainment. You just gotta have an entrepenuerial spirit and the will to rip people off.

Do we have an active Portuguese player?

Just wondering as me and Germany are just plotting African expansion.

Muhahahahah! The world is ours!

hmm...

What happen to the player who is playing as"Saudi" Arabia, he is not active and plus I need someone to rp the Saudis in my conquest of Najd...

Do we have an active Portuguese player?

Just wondering as me and Germany are just plotting African expansion.

Muhahahahah! The world is ours!

Oh! Oh! Me too!

Seriously, I'd like to participate, even if it's just as colonial militia, so that I can have some claim to the land.

You won't get those colonies if I have anything to do with it! I'll swoop down and grab them first. In fact, I'll do that now....

You won't get those colonies if I have anything to do with it! I'll swoop down and grab them first. In fact, I'll do that now....
Sure, that would happen...beside I want Italian-Ottoman war...

Ooc: I DARE you just try to touch anything of Portugal. Just one tiny touch. I'd love to burn Italy like the Huns of old...

Then come and get on MSN. *Gets on MSN* We can discuss the merry business of war on there.


EDIT: Germany, I'm sure we can start WWI soon. I know you want it.

I don't have MSN :(

but I do have...
:mp5:
:mp5:
:mp5:


Deutschland, Deutschland über alles!!

I was reffering to Ottoman Khaif as you hadn't posted when I started posting. But no matter. Just go get MSN messenger, get a name, and t-gram it to me so we can work out any potential battles quickly and efficiently.

What happen to the player who is playing as"Saudi" Arabia, he is not active and plus I need someone to rp the Saudis in my conquest of Najd...
I set what I consider to be the precedent with the Destruction of Lithuania--if an Independence Movement goes derelict, the controlling Power can do whatever it wants. In fact I'm a little concerned about Czechoslovakia on exactly that count . . .
But, of course, we all know what would happen if the Austrians started massacring Slavs, right?

I was reffering to Ottoman Khaif as you hadn't posted when I started posting. But no matter. Just go get MSN messenger, get a name, and t-gram it to me so we can work out any potential battles quickly and efficiently.

Oh...

But, of course, we all know what would happen if the Austrians started massacring Slavs, right?

Then I annex Austria :D

At that point I then annex all the Italian lands in Austria, declare war, and equip all my troops with the l337 Cei-Rigotti, one of the first assault rifles. It is so l337, in fact, that it has a 900 rounds-per-minute firing rate. Let's just say that the first German charge would later be used as an example in biology classes as natural selection in action ;).

Which then my German Battleships in Syracuse blow up Syracuse, then systematically begin to destroy the "mighty" Italian Navy. I then blockade Italy and win. :gundge:

That and I seriously doubt that Italy has the capability to equip all or really even most of your soldiers with it. That and my army is about 2 Million strong, without reserves, me thinks.

Or I attack Syracuse first with my entire navy, then systematically destroy the German navy. I blockade Germany and I win.

And Italy probably can equip all its soldiers with the Cei Riggotti, and in WWI Italy had something around 2.2 million soldiers. The thing that probably prevented the Cei Riggotti's use is that it had some jamming issues, probably due to its ammo. I don't know what the ammo had to do with it, it's just that I've heard the ammo was the problem. However, the issues are probably not as serious as those of other fielded weapons by other nations, particularly France....

Just declare war on each other already, will you?

Ok. I lied. I only have like 600,000 active troops. But still, remember, I have every man from 17-45 in my army. Some might not be as good as others, but I still have the British Empire.

And I think we all saw 30 years ago what Germany can do to France.

And, you know, Russia seemed a bit peeved at the fact that you demanded Istanbul. Speaking of which...

Just declare war on each other already, will you?

I need an excuse, minus Latin impudence.

Galveston Bay here....

Austria Hungary can probably crush the Czechs without too much difficulty historically speaking, probably without even having to massacre anyone. The Czechs didn't get really annoyed until the 2nd year of the Great War.

Italy and Germany.... well, crushing Italy won't be easy, Germany would have to come through the Alpine passes and that would be no picnic. At sea, the Italians could probably take the Germans in the Med, I can game it out easily enough, but the main problem the Germans have its that they would lose their base in Syracuse instantly, and have to retreat to either British bases (which violates international law on neutrality, or draw the British in, which would not be popular in Britian amongst its people without a really, really bad Italian provocation).

Or the Germans have to pull out of the Med.

There isn't a really compelling reason for Italy and Germany to go to war at this point, unless Italy is foolish enough to go to war with Austria Hungary (read up on the Italian Army in World War I, its not pretty sight trying to bash through the Alps into Austria Hungarian territory).

Plus the Austrian Hungarians, without other fronts to deal with, have a bigger army than the Italians, and both the Italian and Austrian Imperial armies are of equal quality (uneven but equal).

The assault rifles aren't going to help, most World War I casualties were caused by artillery (70%)

However, should you wish a war, I will referee it for you and send you results for each action by telegram.

as far as taking any territory held by nonplayer countries, my feeling is that depending on the situation a player nation will beat a nonplayer nation unless another player nation gets involved. So let me know what your exact plans are and I can figure out for you how long it will likely take, and probable casualties etc.

My gut tells me though that any war that Germany gets into in Europe will probably result in the Germans attacking France just to make sure they don't cause problems. Look at the Guns of August after all. France and Italy have a commercial and trade treaty, so logically France would probably be willing to side with the Italians against the Germans. If played historically anyway.

The Schleffien Plan is in place, so it will require active German leadership to change the warplan at this point. Historically that was lacking in August 1914, hence the invasion of Belgium.

I consider the crushing of Ukrainian resistance / revolts as automatic Russia, so don't worry too much about the Ukrainian declaration of independence..... they haven't got a prayer against an intact Russian Empire. The historical 1905 revolt proved that.

Unless Austria-Hungary lets Germany through, I believe Italy and Germany do not even share a land border. http://www.unlv.edu/faculty/pwerth/Europe-1900.jpg

yep, your right, so short of going through either Switzerland, France or Austrian Tyrol, the Germans can't really get at the Italians except at sea and in the colonies... essentially a limited war.

Meh. :mad:

Technically, though, according to the Treaty of Daresallem I can run away to British ports, and if you fire on me there, declaration of war against Britain. I think that would be compelling enough :p

And according to the military thread, my navy is better:

Germany
12 BB1, 12 BB2, 25 CA, 24 CP1, 12 CP2, 7 Torprons, 14 Patrons, 2 Subron

Italian Navy (Regia Marina)
3 BB2, 12 BB3, 6 CA, 7 CP1, 4 Desrons, 1 Patron, 4 Torprons

However, I do agree that the first battle would equal a loss:Germany, because most of my stuff is either in Kiel or Venezuela. However, if that should change...

My internal map is outdated then, because I swore I had parts of Tyrolia...

Oh, well. Truth to tell, Young Willi isn't his father (aka. sane) so he wouldn't jump into a war like that. Neither would Bulow, so until the Kaiser wakes up, Germany is nice... relatively.