NationStates Jolt Archive

Britain will likely cotton on to tanks shortly after German useage if they are effective. Britain would have observers on the Kaiser's side as we are technically allies (though this will be dropped when the reds win).

I think i'll call my tanks "landships" i've always liked the name and they were originally built and operated by the Royal Navy.

The French are calling theirs Cuirassés De Terre (Land Battleships). :D

EDIT: Whoops, wrong username.

The French are calling theirs Cuirassés De Terre (Land Battleships). :D

EDIT: Whoops, wrong username.

"Hello Jensai!"

*Waves*

"Hello Jensai!"

*Waves*

Hey!

*waves back*

Now using the correct username. :D

Belgian Events 1908-1920 (Edition 2)

1911: All major projects in the Belgian Congo have been completed and a sea of commodities flood the Belgian Market, leading to far higher revenues in International Trade.

1914: The Leopold School of Economics is established in Antwerp and begins to preach a doctrine of lassie-faire economics. Based on these principles, a new political party, the United Business Party of Belgium (UBPB) is formed.

1915: As a result of growing political pressures from an increasingly Liberal Parliment/Populace, King Albert I abdicates the throne and re-locates to Stockholm. Shortly after, Parliment Declares Belgium a Federal Republic and Elections for a new President are organized for the end of the year.

In Liege, Military Planners begin testing and modifying Motorbikes, mostly of American orgin, for military purposes. After mostly successful test trials, the Ministry of War agrees to gradually introduce motor bikes to 'Light-Infantry' Companies/Regiments (mostly former Calvary soldiers) by 1920.

1916: By a slim margin, UBPB Candidate, Allard Leburton beats Liberal Candidate, Max Jorgen, and is elected president of the new Republic. At once, he begins to implement massive reforms in Belgium's economic policies, initiating a flat-tax system, greatly reducing government regulations, sponsoring the establishment of a private welfare program.

In the Military, conscription programs are dismantled and a small standing army is put into place. All weaponry (still mostly French) is standardized and a new logsitics system is implemented. Fabrique Nationale begins work on a new Belgian Rifle.

1917: After extensive tests and trials, the Belgian Government authorizes the construction of nearly 10,000 new Browning Automatic Rifles, along with 30,000 of his new Water-Cooled Heavy Machine-Guns. FN immdeately begins production on both orders.

These weapons, once completed, were sent to active Belgian Units for further testing and observation. At the time, reports look promising

John Browning himself is praised as a 'genius' and is contracted by FN to continue improving the BAR's design, while simultaneously providing his support to engineers designing the 'Belgium Rifle'.

1918: Boosted by the economic reforms of 1916, the Belgian Economy starts to grow at a rapid pace, with large Industrial centres popping up out of Ghent and Liege and cities such as Bruxelles and Antwerp growing to massive proportions. However, public debt and inflation begin to steadily rise, worrying some investors.

1919: Fearful of the new Socialist Germany, Belgian Investors withdraw most investments held east of the Rhine and place them into French, British, American and Chinese Markets.

To combat ever growing inflation, the Ministry of Economics initiates yet another Interest Rate increase, prompting many to start refinancing property under safer, fixed-rate mortgages. Consumer spending begins to slow as a result, but Belgium still sustians an annual GDP growth of about 4% annually.

Belgium begins to consider abandoning it's neutrality in support of a possible Mutual Defense Pact with the French, however opposition is still high and a bill of this sort never reaches Parliment.

1920: In the Belgian Congo, further Diamond discovers, along with a gorwing demand for rubber, fuels futher expansion, settlement and modernization. Majority of the native populace has been enrolled in Private-Public labor projects, or in the various schools now operating around the country. Albertville opens it's first full-scale University.

At Banana, the first Military Academy is established and enrolls nearly 100 students from around the colony into it's new program. Along with this, 3 new Colonial Infantry Divisions, comprised mostly of natives, are raised to protect the Congo, allowing several more Belgian Reserve Regiments to return home to help defend the increasingly dangerous border with Germany.

In response to this growth, Liberals in Parliment sponsor a bill to allow the Belgian Congo to establish it's own independent Parliment; a first step in a structured road to full independence for the colony. Although the large majority of Conservatives protest the bill, it passes and is put into effect by the end of the year.

Back home, the Home Defense Act is passed, authorizing the construction and modernization of all fortifacations from the Burgundy to Dutch border. Progress is at first slow, but picks up with Private Investment/Contractors.

1908: As the war comes to an end the army is drastically reduced in size, down to 500,00 men. France officially recognizes the Duchy of Burgundy and promises to ensure it's nuetrality. Sells Pacific island holdings to Australia and the U.S.A to help pay off debt. Begins investing in Palestine and helps them train their military.

French advisors and surplus military weapons begin arriving in Brazil.

1910: Army adopts light machine-guns and subamchine guns. New doctrine revolves around using the machine-guns as an effective cover-fire weapon and fire and movement tactics. Steel Helmets issued. France begins knocking down all trade barriers with Italy and integrates it's intelligence service with Italy's.

1912: Jacques Castet steps down as Prime Minister and is replaced by Alexandre Milelrand. Conservatives maintain power in Parliament. Army adopts new 7.5mm cartridge as standard ammunition for machine-guns and rifles. Production begins on the MAS-10 Bolt Action Rifle. It has a five-round magazine. Chauchat one-man light machine gun enters service chambered for 7.5mm round.

1914: New machinegun,the Hotchkiss M-1914 introduced, chambered for the 7.5mm round. Also introduced is the Darne machine-gun, re-chambered for the 7.5mm.

1915: France begins constructing new academies, academic and military, including a new Naval Academy at Calais. Cars begin to become affordable. Construction begins on new naval ships. Division Navale D'Aéronautique and Division D'Aéronautique D'Armée formed. Air mail use begins.

1916: Conservative Party maintains power, but begins losing some ground to a coalition of the Partie Française D'Ouvriers (French Workers Party) and the Communists who are offering more power and rights to the aeverage worker. Parliament begins land reform in Indochina to allow natives a larger stake on the land.

1917: In an effort to curb the growing Liberal movement the Conservative Party passes several reforms, including unviersal suffereage and creating a six-day work week, with a one-day weekend. This defuses several of the Liberal Coalitions arguements and they begin to lose power.

1918: Debt payed off. France eyes the on-going civil war with displeasure, but remains nuetral. Parliament orders the Army increased in size to 700,000 men.

1919-1920: France refuses to recognize the new German government and in a spasm of fear and paranoia begins cracking down on socialists and communists inside it's own borders and begins building fortifications along the Belguim-Burgundy borders. Conservatices regain much of the power they had lost during the previous years. France offers political asylum for all people fleeing the new Communist Germany. Army size increased again to 800,000. naval building project come to an end, but several more ships are ordered built.

First Cuirassés De Terre enter service, the first being the Reanault FT-20 light Cuirassé armed with a Darne machine-gun in a rotating turret. Another model, the FT-20b is planned to be armed with a 37mm gun.

OOC: Yes,the FT-20 is basically the FT-17 made three years later.

You read his stuff too?

Huge fan, you gotta love his "Settling Accounts" Series.

1908: Liberal/Socialist Government under the control of Béla Kun takes office and places the Hapsburg Monarchy into a total figurehead status. Disbands almost all the military and focuses on the rebuilding of Hungary, widespread reforms introduced including universal suffrage and land distribution programs.

1909: Conservative leaders march on capital demanding more rights for the Monarchy and protests turn violent, leaving hundreds dead. Some of the Monarch’s powers are restored but most are not. (The Hungarian Monarch’s now have slightly more power than say the British Monarch but not much more)

1914: Peasants angered by the failure of the land distribution system and nobles angered by the land distribution programs lead a revolt against the government

1915: Civil war is ended with the death of Count István Bethlen de Bethlen, the leader of the opposition. The conflict takes a heavy toll on the moral of the Hungarian Army and many units disband and flee to the countryside.

1918: Discontent growing against the government especially with unemployed former soldiers. Pro-Royalist protests end in violence as nearly two hundred are killed by Hungarian Troops, sparks a month-long rebellion leaving hundreds of government troops dead and just as many protestors, many former soldiers form the army as well. Army fraternities such as the Steel Helmets and the larger and more powerful Freedom Party are gaining increasing power under the leadership of Fredek Tollazat, a former sergeant in the army and radical Royalist.

1920: The Steel Helmets and several other Royalist or Soldier groups are incorporated into the Freedom Party. Fredek Tollazat seizes power in a bloody coup that leaves Prime Minister Kun dead along with many of his top advisors and officials dead. Fredek immediately requests that international advisors, preferably from the United States, come and set up an election system to allow free elections in Hungary. He also announces that Socialists and Communists will be allowed to run in the elections, a right they denied to Royalist groups. While rumors of pogroms begin to surface, there is no real evidence to support this.

Non-Revolutionary Events:

1908: Zeppelin Flight to London

1910: Berlin-Baghdad Railroad complete

1912: Zeppelin Flight to Istanbul

1914: Machine guns placed on planes to fight communists

1919: German East Africa donated to Ottoman Empire.

1920: German Southwest Africa sold to South Africa. Togoland, Cameroons given independance, with socialist power.

British Landships.

Britain will begin constructing landship prototypes in 1917 shortly after seeing them used by the Germans in their civil war. The first will be based off of armoured tractors and several major politicians and soldiers will be involved in the process. Including the first lord of the admiralty Winston Churchill and the general Lord Kitchener, the first proof of concept vehicle is produced based on a tractor chassis and is sucessfully tested on Salisbury Plain. A full test run of 50 is ordered for mid 1918 (these will be the familiar trapezoid shaped mk IV designs) and two varients are designed, a female with machine guns and a male with 6 pounder cannon. The landships committee decides that whilst a good design they need to be simpler and able to be controlled by less crew members (first designs had 4 drivers) a later model designed for only one driver is released in 1919 and full production begun in early 1920 (these will be of the historical British mk V variety).

Add this to my timeline in my news thread...

1913-Spain Recognizes ARSDU as legitamate gov't

1919-Spain recognizes GWR as legitamate gov't/Spains official name is changed to The Peoples Monarchy of Spain amidst the creation of the Monarcho-Syndicalist Party and King Alfonso XIII leadership of it

Does anyone know the aproxamite population of Hungary at this time?

Does anyone know the aproxamite population of Hungary at this time?

A Census taken in 1907 (RL) claimed that the KUK contianed around 48,592,000 citizens and being that a considerable portion of the Populace was in both Dalmatia and Austria, I'd imagine that this figure would have dropped to about 20-25 million citizens.

However, I have not accounted for all citizens lost during the Great War.

I think i should notify you all that the Zionists have accomplished their goals in obtaining a new land, I currently hold a 100km^2 area just on the outskirts of Rio Gallegos (provincial capital of Santa Cruz).

Albania Time-line

1901: Wilhelm Wied (a German Prince) is installed as King of the New State of Albania (formed to prevent more war in Southern Europe). Six months later he is overthrown by his Defense Minister Essad Pasha Toptani, better known as Zog.

1902-1916: Albania in a state of civil war and tribal violence. Several factions declare themselves the legitamate government of Albania (none of them are). Zog declares himself King, but has little support, most comming from the criminal elements. During this time Albania becomes a haven for organized crime, drug and weapons dealing, and troublemakers. The European powers decide to stay away and not drink from this poisoned cup (Chaos in other countries and revolutions in central Europe provide more important matters to deal with any way).

1916: Several Factions, faced with continued chaos and little reason to continue fighting, come together to begin peace negotations, led by Turkhan Pasha. The Peace negotations are a success and a Provisional Government is formed with Turkhan Pasha as President. A talented young man by name of Ilir Meta becomes Prime Minister. King Zog denounces the current government (big surprise) and works towards its destruction.

1917-1918: The Provisional Government stabalizes the Southern and Northern Coastal Regions as well as most major cities. A consitutional committee is formed and a Consititution is ratified (the first real one in the nations history). Pasha Turkhan is reelected President by Parliament (considered a National Hero) and Ilir Meta remains Prime Minister (forming the Albanian Socialist Party).

1919-Present Day: The Central Government has attempted to restore order to the interior areas, but have been prevented due to rough terrain, not enough troops, troubalsome tribal warlords, the criminal gangs who like the status quo, and of course King Zog. The Government has promised an offensive to wipe out the problem once and for all, but nothing recent has been done.

In the areas under government protection Ilir Meta's government is attempting to rebuild the economy (the legal one any-way), fight crime/corruption, and promote a sense of Albanian-ness.

Current Status of Albania:
Capital: Tirana
Government: Parliamentary Democracy (in theory)
Current Government: Socalist led, Prime Minister Ilir Meta
Current President: Turkhan Pasha, Conservative Party
Current GNP: Cannot be measured: Developing (however it is known that a large percentage remains under-ground)
Current Military: A standing army (small, though exact size has yet to be determined as it is partialy made up of tribal militias), a navy made up of one light cruser and several patrol vessals, and no air force.
Current Conflicts: Dealing with assorted rebels and terrorists in the interior, led more often then not by King Zog (who is wanted dead by the Central Government).

I have always loved the fact that Albania had a king named Zog... what a great name for an Orc leader or a character from a post apocalyptic movie

im guessing tommorrow we will have a lot more activity seeing as the time warp will be done

im guessing tommorrow we will have a lot more activity seeing as the time warp will be done

well, actually, I won't have the economics done until Monday (Pacific time), when technically 1920 will begin

its cool with me i got work this whole weekend so ill be on only in little spurts and either in the early morning or night

VP can you get on MSN?

Lachenburg, check the Belguim thread.

working on cleaning up and updating the economics thread, I will post more later when I finish, with a link.

don't forget to include Zion as a nation

Just a quick post before I head out to a Labor's Day BBQ with friends...

I made this flag for China for 1920 onwards. :)

http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/3559/flag15ei.png

posted some economic information, more will be added today or tomorrow

I just learned the most kikass thing, I possibly own Albert Einstein

I just learned the most kikass thing, I possibly own Albert Einstein

I doubt it seriously, he will be where there is a major world class university, either in Germany or the US. World class scientists go where the grant money is, and governments at this time DO NOT have focused national level research organizations that hire scientists. We need another big war for that to happen.

I doubt it seriously, he will be where there is a major world class university, either in Germany or the US. World class scientists go where the grant money is, and governments at this time DO NOT have focused national level research organizations that hire scientists. We need another big war for that to happen.

good point, it's just he was a German Jew, in this timeline most Jews fled Germany and Russia after their businesses were trashed by Communists, so i figured he would flee to the increasingly large Zionist population of Argentina, but if not then hey....

Einstein actually would probably head (back) to Switzerland when the German Revolution starts. He was pretty liberal, and pacifistic, but indifferent to the socialism/capitalism debate or Zionism. With the world becoming divided into hostile camps, and neither side (as yet) being obviously more oppressive than the other, I expect Einstein is likely to stay in Switzerland for some time.
Also, for Russia especially, a lot of Jews supported the Communists (both Trotsky and Kamenev are secularized Jews, for instance).
Finally, I (or at least me and Germany) may keep Sikorsky, since in RL he left Russia more for opportunity than because of politics.

OOC: Whey, time warp! Happy 1920 everyone :):)

So, we're officially in 1920 then?

Erm, I think so. Well, Its monday here in the UK but thats British time. I don't know Pacific time....

Erm, I think so. Well, Its monday here in the UK but thats British time. I don't know Pacific time....

its officially 237 PM When I post this in Pacific Time, while the default Nationstates time (when the message I am replying to posted) 819 PM (British time).

So yes, it is January/February 1920

US hopes to creat a Washington Naval Treaty

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9589999#post9589999

Can i be Arabia ?

Also try to list all the countries please.

Arabia is taken, you have to TG Hrstovokia with nation claims, and theres a list of taken nations on the front page.

some more updates in the economic thread... position of the Great Powers in 1920 (Great as defined as an industrial power), also a way to figure your GNP, as historic information is really difficult to find on the internet, and I had to find what I found in my reference books.

Just as a quick question, how well did the Italian automobile industry do, as far as exports go? I think it would have been easily affordable for people in Italy, but how did it do globally?

Is Venezuela available?

Can I be Ecuador?

TG Hrstovokia and ask him.

That goes for you too, The South Pacific.
Uh-oh
Nation Not Found: "Hrstovokia"

If possible, use your browser's BACK button to return and fix this.

My apologies. I spelled his name wrong, it's Hrstrovokia.

Just as a quick question, how well did the Italian automobile industry do, as far as exports go? I think it would have been easily affordable for people in Italy, but how did it do globally?

that information simply wasn't available, I could only find how many cars were actually built, with a slight adjustment upward since you have been focusing on development

Fine I take Ecuador.

OOC:

I have quite a number of questions about China's current position in 1920, both economically and military- I posted my questions over at the Economy thread.

I just do not want to end up god-modding, making unrealistic claims, or the like and ruin the RP's. Its hard because China is substantially different in this timeline than in RL, so I am not sure what a 500+ million nation is and isn't capable of when it comes to industrialization and modernization.

So far, I've been trying to RP development of China as rapidly as possible- the sooner I can modernize, the faster I can repay loans, any potential debts, and get to play around as a "Major Power" instead of being someone's "ho" or "slap-bitch" or so to speak.

Dear all nations

The Republic of Ecuador will buy a battleship for a hetfy price.

From
Jose Luis Tamayo President of Ecuador

A hefty price you say? How about one of the Savoy classes I invented? It'll run you about $5 million. If you want old battleships, world, you'd better get them fast as the Washington Naval Treaty, once signed, will probably make us crap lots of these old ships.

itll be like the geneva convention...it only applies if you sign...so dont sign

Dear,
Italy

We will pay you 5 million for the Savory Class ship. We will pay you once we get the ship. The name of the ship will be BAE Ecuador. Also do you have any old battleships for sale?

From
Jose Luis Tamayo President of Ecuador

Dear,
Italy

By Savory Class ship we mean the battleship Giulio Cesare. It will keep it's name. All the terms located before will applied. Ok. So we hope we get the ship soon. The $5 million will be transferred on arrival of ship.

From,
Jose Luis Tamayo President of Ecuador

Shouldn't IC stuff stay out of the OOC? Either way,

I want to formally appologize for being a crappy player right now. This whole "communism" hoo-ha is rather confusing to a poor ol' Texan boy who considers himself a "militaristic Capitalist." Thus, it will probably take me a while to adjust to being... uhh... communist I guess, so yeah. Also, the Librarian has become more fascist so now I can only do this after school and during study hall. *sigh*

Parthini']Shouldn't IC stuff stay out of the OOC? Either way,

I want to formally appologize for being a crappy player right now. This whole "communism" hoo-ha is rather confusing to a poor ol' Texan boy who considers himself a "militaristic Capitalist." Thus, it will probably take me a while to adjust to being... uhh... communist I guess, so yeah. Also, the Librarian has become more fascist so now I can only do this after school and during study hall. *sigh*

OOC:

You could always tell the librarian you are engaging in an "educational" activity. After all, NS does teach people a lot of stuff. Hell, I learned a lot of geography from NS. Before I played NS, I couldn't name half of the countries in South America, but now I can recall any South American, Central American, and North American nations, states, and provinces from memory.

You can tell your school guys that you're actually engaging in an historical thing, namely E20. :p

BTW, did you get my TG?

tag

Dear,
Italy

By Savory Class ship we mean the battleship Giulio Cesare. It will keep it's name. All the terms located before will applied. Ok. So we hope we get the ship soon. The $5 million will be transferred on arrival of ship.

From,
Jose Luis Tamayo President of Ecuador

although Ecuador has a coast, until I see population figures you can't afford a battleships. Ecuador is about tech level 2, maybe 3, a couple of million in population, and a GDP (quick estimate) of about $200 Million which means you have a total defense budget of about $5 million annually tops. This would allow you to support the battleship and its crew and nothing else at all for a military.

OOC:

China was prepared to sign the Washington Naval Treaty, but only if the limits on China was raised to be equal to Japan. China feels "cheated" as it is much larger- land, coast, population, potential economy, etc. than Japan.

China does not want to leave its coastlines lightly defended as the painful lessons from the 19th century showed- Opium Wars and the Sino-Japanese War. Hence the reason why China seeks equal Navy as Japan.

If that was granted to China, then China would be more than happy to sign the Washington Naval Treaty.

However, if the "Washington'ers" reject China's request, China will still adhere to most points of the Washington Treaty, except the limitation of ship numbers until China reaches Japan in Naval parity.

well, if the Russians and Germans don't sign the treaty, there won't be a treaty... oh well.

well, if the Russians and Germans don't sign the treaty, there won't be a treaty... oh well.

I believe the only reason why the Germans won't sign the treaty is because they don't like the ship number limitations. I'm sure they'd support limitations on gun sizes and individual ship tonnage. Germany probably shares the same views as China- that all major powers (Europeans, China, Japan, USA) should have an equal limit on ship numbers and developing countries (Colombia, Chile, Ecaudor, Australia, African nations, etc.) have half the number or so.

The Russians left because they feel that the treaty would result in another war or cause conflict when a nation builds more than it's supposed to out of fear of other nation invading them.

The worlds better off... That treaty would only increase the liklyhood of war.

The worlds better off... That treaty would only increase the liklyhood of war.

Check your TG's. :)

I believe the only reason why the Germans won't sign the treaty is because they don't like the ship number limitations. I'm sure they'd support limitations on gun sizes and individual ship tonnage. Germany probably shares the same views as China- that all major powers (Europeans, China, Japan, USA) should have an equal limit on ship numbers and developing countries (Colombia, Chile, Ecaudor, Australia, African nations, etc.) have half the number or so.

The Russians left because they feel that the treaty would result in another war or cause conflict when a nation builds more than it's supposed to out of fear of other nation invading them.

ooc
it would have been convenient from a referee perspective but I can live without it. Historically, Germany, Russia, China and Colombia weren't even part of the treaty.

The US wanted to cut its defense budget in a way that didn't sacrifice security. Only the British and Americans actually need a large navy, for everyone else, big navies aren't needed as much as armies. So the US will build to its potential.

ooc
it would have been convenient from a referee perspective but I can live without it. Historically, Germany, Russia, China and Colombia weren't even part of the treaty.

The US wanted to cut its defense budget in a way that didn't sacrifice security. Only the British and Americans actually need a large navy, for everyone else, big navies aren't needed as much as armies. So the US will build to its potential.

Perhaps you could still keep the Washington Naval Treaty- enact it among all signatory nations, then if revisions or updates are made, maybe China, Japan, Germany, etc. would be willing to join in with the Naval treaty at a later date. :)

Check your TG's. :)

What :confused:

What :confused:

Telegrams on your nation's page on the main NS page (where it displays your nation's motto, flag, population, descriptions, etc.)

GB check your TGs.

And Sharina, yes I did get your TG. Gimme a while to write something. I'm not ignoring you :p

Alright, Parthini wants Venezuela. I've made him a counter-offer, but if he doesn't accept it, I'm declaring my candidacy for a Unified Russo-German Communist superstate.
I know, it would make me "too powerful," but considering what I'm up against (the rest of the world, apparently), I think it's reasonable to at least try for it.
Besides, it would be awesome.
Obviously, the other Mods will have to rule on it, though.

Alright, Parthini wants Venezuela. I've made him a counter-offer, but if he doesn't accept it, I'm declaring my candidacy for a Unified Russo-German Communist superstate.
I know, it would make me "too powerful," but considering what I'm up against (the rest of the world, apparently), I think it's reasonable to at least try for it.
Besides, it would be awesome.
Obviously, the other Mods will have to rule on it, though.

If the Germany-Russia Communist Superstate is formed, China will still like to maintain quite cordial relations. China has been enjoying increased trade and support from Germany, and to a lesser degree, Russia. This is made possible through the Eastern Coalition and the newly built Eurasian Railroads.

If the Germany-Russia Communist Superstate is formed, China will still like to maintain quite cordial relations. China has been enjoying increased trade and support from Germany, and to a lesser degree, Russia. This is made possible through the Eastern Coalition and the newly built Eurasian Railroads.

Ditto from Brazil, we would obviously be on good terms with this naturally as they share most of our views and we are now allied to Russia of course so we applaud this move.

the United States however is not amused by the Brazilian/ Russian treaty...expect a reaction after the 1920 election

It does ensure however that the Harding / Coolidge ticket gets its ass kicked, which is just as well, as I view them as two of the three worst Presidents who ever sat in the office as far as real damage done (Buchanan being number 1, those 2 are number two and three)

ooc
it would have been convenient from a referee perspective but I can live without it. Historically, Germany, Russia, China and Colombia weren't even part of the treaty.

The US wanted to cut its defense budget in a way that didn't sacrifice security. Only the British and Americans actually need a large navy, for everyone else, big navies aren't needed as much as armies. So the US will build to its potential.

being nothing but islands, japan needs a large navy more than an army.

being nothing but islands, japan needs a large navy more than an army.

Yes but are your islands thousands of miles away and on the other side of the world with millions of miles of trade routes in between them to protect like mine are. Also do you have dozens of colonies to protect and police? The point is historically the UK and the US were the only powers to need extremely large navies to see to their colonies and territories the other nations were more centralised and tended to have much smaller navies anyway.

Olympic Games in Antwerp, Belgium for 1920 and Paris for 1924
World's Fair in Tokyo, Japan (peace) for 1922, London (British Empire) in 1924 and Expo 1925 in Dunedin, New Zealand.

Galveston Bay please read this thread before you carry out your economic threats.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=435410&page=3

Alright, Parthini wants Venezuela. I've made him a counter-offer, but if he doesn't accept it, I'm declaring my candidacy for a Unified Russo-German Communist superstate.
I know, it would make me "too powerful," but considering what I'm up against (the rest of the world, apparently), I think it's reasonable to at least try for it.
Besides, it would be awesome.
Obviously, the other Mods will have to rule on it, though.

Find someone else to run Germany, Russia and Germany are too complex to be run by one player. Plus Alt. Russia is much better off then historical Russia (the civil war was brief, the Russian government is more stable, Poland is still under Russian rule, Communism has spread to Central Europe and Brazil's Socalist government and the Ottomans are friendly), and the anti-communist sentiments of the West are due to feelings of danger. Russia has no justification to get any advantiges.

If no one can be found to run Germany, I have a suggestion. Germany could become an NPC. Or the country could collapse into civil war again (and let that play out). Anything would be better and more realistic (given historical German and Russian rivalry) then a "superstate"

And while where on the issue of players, will the mod who is in charge of the Greek NCP please get him to respond to my treaty offer...

I'll put in my two cents. While such a communist super-state is possible, politically at least, I feel that it would eventually result in civil war and the seperation of the two nations. Adding Germany means this superstate must deal with a huge amount of nationalities. And I'd have to imagine that the Austrians wouldn't want to be united with the state that just beat them in a war and gave them to Germany....

And while where on the issue of players, will the mod who is in charge of the Greek NCP please get him to respond to my treaty offer...

I guess that will be me... under the terms of the Treaty of Washington that ended the Great War, Greece is required to remain neutral, and is under the protection of the United States, Great Britain, Russia and the Ottoman Empire. In exchange, it got Crete and Rhodes. The Turks got a naval base at Crete in recompense. So Greece cannot ally militarily with anyone.

However, any trade or commercial treaties I am sure it will cheerfully agree to, as they aren't much better off than Albania.

Because the Washington Treaty has not been signed, and because everyone from Ecuador to Japan want battleships....

Italy to Sell off All Obsolete Battleships; Takes Orders for New Ones

In order to promote Italian industry and expand Italian influence, Italy has begun selling off all its obsolete battleships, and will take orders for new battleships. This comes at a time of rising global distrust, the rise of communism, and world reaction to it. However, Germany, Russia, and Brazil cannot buy any ships. Any other nations that wish to buy ships can go ahead an inquire. The only old ships not being sold are the Regina Elena-class battleships, as it is hoped to convert them into carriers. (OOC: they are roughly battlecruisers anyways, and are very lightly armed with like two 12" guns or something pathetic)

Because the Washington Treaty has not been signed, and because everyone from Ecuador to Japan want battleships....

Italy to Sell off All Obsolete Battleships; Takes Orders for New Ones

In order to promote Italian industry and expand Italian influence, Italy has begun selling off all its obsolete battleships, and will take orders for new battleships. This comes at a time of rising global distrust, the rise of communism, and world reaction to it. However, Germany, Russia, and Brazil cannot buy any ships. Any other nations that wish to buy ships can go ahead an inquire. The only old ships not being sold are the Regina Elena-class battleships, as it is hoped to convert them into carriers. (OOC: they are roughly battlecruisers anyways, and are very lightly armed with like two 12" guns or something pathetic)

the US Government secretly contacts the Italians, and proposes to buy them all. At that point, the US, British, Italian and French navies will use them for targets at a convenient gunnery range in the Med.

OOC
However, you might want to scrap some of them, there is a lot of useful steel there.

the US Government secretly contacts the Italians, and proposes to buy them all. At that point, the US, British, Italian and French navies will use them for targets at a convenient gunnery range in the Med.

OOC
However, you might want to scrap some of them, there is a lot of useful steel there.

OOC: Yeah, I tend to scrap most of my old ships because I can use the raw materials to build new ones.

OOC: I suppose that is true. But thanks for defense spending, I mean, custom ;)

Secret IC:

At news of the American offer, the Italian ambassador fainted. When he recovered, he made the following offer: Italia, Andrea Doria, Duilio, and Emanuele Filiberto will all be scrapped. All the rest of the obsolete battleships, excluding the Regina Elenas, will be sold to the United States, obsolete being defined as Savoy-class or older. All of this for the low low price of $15 million. All proceeds will go into turning the Regina Elenas into carriers. (OOC: I think there are three of them in this timeline, as I think one of them was sunk in our Great War.)

The Albanian Government asks that if a number of heavy gunned ships are going to be scrapped, is it possible that during the disassembly if the guns could be removed intact and sold/given to Albania for use in fortifications?

-The Albanian Committee of Self Defense, Albanian Parliament

the French have begun scrapping the Courbet calss Battleships and plan to replace them with the newer Normandie class ships. The ships will be phased out as the new ones are built to allow for the Navy to remain at it's current size.

To Albania:

Yes, it is possible that some of the guns can be sold to Albania to forticiations. However, your nation already owes us much debt. If your nation insists that you purchase some of the turrets, we will sell the turrets of the Duilio. They will cost $500,000, but we warn you, your nation cannot afford much more in the way of debts.

OOC: This is supposed to be OOC... but...

With the Superstate, it would be VP being in charge of internal affairs, and me being in charge of external affairs, including the military. So it would be two people doing what we each do best :)

And about all the ethnicities: Russia has way more ethnic groups than Germany. That is one of the reasons (I think) that communism was so appealing. It was a call for all of the poor to unite, instead of just Russians or Lithuanians or Georgians. It changed things from a race war to a class war. Ideally, that would happen in a Eurasian Superstate. All races would unite with their hatred of Capitalism, shoving aside their complaints of each other. The same kind of thing happened in America. Americans are so wierd and diverse, but they (at least a while ago) remained united with their love of the country that housed all the mutts of the world. That, I guess, is what we are idealogically trying to do.

OOC:

I sent a secret TG to Russia and Germany in the Washington Naval Treaty thread. ;)

VP, is there any chance you can get on Chatzy? (http://www.chatzy.com/684093003041)

Anyone else, too :)

Parthini']OOC: This is supposed to be OOC... but...

With the Superstate, it would be VP being in charge of internal affairs, and me being in charge of external affairs, including the military. So it would be two people doing what we each do best :)

And about all the ethnicities: Russia has way more ethnic groups than Germany. That is one of the reasons (I think) that communism was so appealing. It was a call for all of the poor to unite, instead of just Russians or Lithuanians or Georgians. It changed things from a race war to a class war. Ideally, that would happen in a Eurasian Superstate. All races would unite with their hatred of Capitalism, shoving aside their complaints of each other.

In theory... In fact communism throughout history has been linked to nationalism. Feuds often erupted between communist states. For example, the China-Soviet split, the Vietnam China split, the Vietnam/Cambodian/Chinese war, the USSR's crack down on warsaw pact members, the Yugoslav and Albanian seperation form the rest of the communist world, the entire history of North Korea, est est. This was particuly true concerning revolutionary movements which achieved revolution by their own efforts (Germany and Russia may develop different forms of communism).

A superstate makes no sense and would detract from the game!

That's why this is called an alternate history. This is different. Plus it makes things more fun :)

Parthini']That's why this is called an alternate history. This is different. Plus it makes things more fun :)

The fun of alternative history is that it is realistic! Otherwise its fantasy or science fiction.

OOC:

Here's the link to the secret Russo-German-Chinese conference thread.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9603608#post9603608

The fun of alternative history is that it is realistic! Otherwise its fantasy or science fiction.
You don't even know what the constitution of it will actually be, you haven't bothered to ask, you haven't listened to anything anyone else has said. You just go off on your Crusade, repeating yourself over and over. I'm really tired of it.
You're not right. If you don't like it, you can always go away.

The war moderator thanks you for agreeing to the Washington Naval Treaty...it makes life simplier for me. I can use historic ship capabilities now for future battles, which I am sure will come.

I have game rules for that already developed from wargames I have been playing for 33 years. (yes, I am old, now shut up ;) )

Incidently, agreeing to the Treaty will prevent Japan from going broke (which was a real danger historically)

You don't even know what the constitution of it will actually be, you haven't bothered to ask, you haven't listened to anything anyone else has said. You just go off on your Crusade, repeating yourself over and over. I'm really tired of it.
You're not right. If you don't like it, you can always go away.

OOC:
It dosent matter what the constitution is (it is just a piece of paper compaired to the Political merger of two of the greatist superpowers on Earth). There is no indiction given on how this is supposed to happen. As the EU shows unifications do not happen quickly, it is totaly unrealistic to declare Germany and Russia unified in one year and move on. Such things take YEARS to occur. It has to be gradual with a real reasions behind the Germans deciding to give up their independence (the American States only United to form the USA because if they did not chaos would result).

So I've come up with a few examples of how such a union could occur and be acceptable.

1. German communists fail in their economic planning and the country goes into chaos/civil war. Russians intervene and save the German communist state. Germany has no choice but to unite with Russia if Russia wishes it.

2. War brakes out between Germany and surrounding countries, Russia intervenes to prevent German defeat and forces unification (extreme).

3. After several decades of mutual economic planning and political partnership a union gradualy develops (where talking 30 years or more, long term).

I was probably (well, almost certainly) too harsh on Amestria. It drives me nuts, though, when someone keeps arguing the same thing over and over, without listening or apparently considering that other people might know what they're talking about.
I'll try to be more civil, though.
The Union between Russia and Germany is going to happen (both players have agreed). The details have yet to be negotiated, but, as players, he'll basically be Bad Commie (and nuts and bolts, military, etc.) while I'll be Good Commie (and strategy, politics, etc.), with both of us sharing responsibilities.
With regard to our nations, the individuality of the states involved will continue to be respected (although I think both us will be playing both Russians and Germans--he gets Liebknecht, I get Luxemburg, I get Kerensky, he gets Zhukov). Nevertheless, the governments will be more integrated than unified as such. It is not Russia "taking over" Germany. Nor the other way round.
I anticipate some unrest among counterrevolutionary nationalistic types as a result. But even historically, the Soviets used the carrot as well as the stick. Stalin suppressed Ukrainians, Finns, Poles, Georgians, and Cossacks with undeniable brutality, but there was also, especially early on, a genuine effort to incorporate minorities into the government, especially from Central Asia. I've been taking this tack under Kerensky already (the world's first affirmative action law was passed by the USDR legislature back in, like, 1913). That's the alternate in alternate history, after all. I view it as my challenge to see how well I can make Communism actually work.
Anyway. As I say, I will try to be more civil.

Proposed Union "Great Banner"

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6981/union1m8wk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Edit - You were posting while I was
The merger will be gradual. Again, I say, it's not a case of Germany "losing" independence to Russia. More of closer partnership. You hadn't asked.

OOC: Ok, I thought you meant an actual unification...

You meant a partnership in jointly running both communist states between players. I'm not opposed to that at all, why would I... (Note: Unification is a bad term to use).

I'm sorry for being so arguementative and disagreeable (over a misunderstanding of all things). Sorry, I will try to be more agreeable in the future...

OOC:

I think we should post all our national flags. This will help create some type of national identity, instead of mere text on your screen. So far, I count two flags. I want to see more flags. :)

In addition, we should also establish a catalog of national names / titles. For example... Americans = United States of America... France = The Republic of France... and so on.




http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/3559/flag15ei.png

China

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/1681/flag22jl.png

Germany - Russia Union

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2427/flag38ta.png

The Republic of Albania

I have been thinking of several "National Title" for China. I'd like your feedback.

1. Imperial Union of China

2. Greater China

3. The Imperium of China

4. The Dragon Kingdom of China


Any "Title" ideas or suggestions will be greatly appreciated and welcome. :)

Agreed...

The Republic of Albania: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Albania_flag_large.png

I have been thinking of several "National Title" for China. I'd like your feedback.

1. Imperial Union of China

2. Greater China

3. The Imperium of China

4. The Dragon Kingdom of China


Any "Title" ideas or suggestions will be greatly appreciated and welcome. :)

I like Chinese Empire myself, but Greater China is my second choice...

Agreed...

The Republic of Albania: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Albania_flag_large.png

I took the liberty of resizing that flag (it was too big) down to a manageable size, and mounted it on my imageshack account. Hope you don't mind. :)

Not at all ;)

OOC: okay guys I have read your points today but America especially dont take any more action until I get back from school which will be in about eight hours from this posting time roughly till I can get on. I've taken stuff on board and don't think I'm ignoring your threat Galveston but I will talk to you all tonight when I have time to post properly.

The Union of South Africa: http://www.worldstatesmen.org/za-1928.gif

I like Chinese Empire myself, but Greater China is my second choice...
I'd recommend Zhonghua Tianguo (pronounced "Jung-hwa tyen-gwo"), or "Chinese Celestial Empire." You could call it either the Celestial Empire or Chinese Empire as a short form. Tianguo was used a lot for millenarian rebel movements in China, it carried connotations of reform, progress, divine mission, and the Mandate of Heaven (tianming), and its use by the government itself would be a way to claim some of those "revolutionary" qualities for itself.
Greater China would be my second choice, too.

With regard to the Union, Amestria, there will be administrative integration IC, not just as players. But, yeah, I was envisioning it more like the EC (with the security arrangements of the Warsaw Pact) than just one country absorbing the other. Both countries in principle would agree to the ultimate erasure of all national borders (that really was a Marxist goal, after all), but we'll see whether or not that can actually happen. I have high hopes, but I'm also realistic.

The Argentinian Tributary of New Zion

http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/1386/flag81re.jpg

Yugoslavian flag (http://www.freewebs.com/roffkaiser/Crest.bmp)

Federated States of Yugoslavia.

I have been wanting to join this for some time now. On Monday, I sent a TG to Hrstrovokia about joining but I haven't gotten a reply. I wanted to be Bolivia or Dutch Guiana.

Flag of the French Republic (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/frenchflag.jpg)

The Republic of France

The Republic of Palestine

I'll get a flag up later. It'll be a new design, since I don't really like the modern flag.

I have been wanting to join this for some time now. On Monday, I sent a TG to Hrstrovokia about joining but I haven't gotten a reply. I wanted to be Bolivia or Dutch Guiana.

Sorry. Didn't receive it (I run Hrstrovokia, and it's not in the list). But you're confirmed as Bolivia.

Comstan is (finally) confirmed as Ecuador. His News/Diplomatic Thread is http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=442943.

And Spooty, I keep meaning to change that, and keep forgetting.

I'll try to update the Main Post to reflect all this stuff on Saturday - I'd get to it sooner, but I'll be too busy.

Its OK, I will start a thread for Bolivia sometime tomarrow (I am still gathering some information).

One thing I found about this rp though, It seamed like all Balkins nations joined the Coalition durring the Great War, But historicaly they all hated each other. There should be a few Balkins wars before any major war takes place, (but that is just my opinion).

Well, schoolwork kept me away....any major events happen while Korea was reforming its tax system?

OOC: Albania did not join the Coalition during the war as Albania was in civil war at the time. Also the Balkin wars of the early 20th century were against the Turkish Empire. In this time line the Turks withdrew from Europe to concentrate on dominating the Middle East (an idea which paid off). Then five years later the Great War broke out. The situations facing the Balkins has been very different historicaly.

The Federal Republic of Belgium (La République fédérale de Belgique):

Flag of the FRB (http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/b/be_first.gif)

One thing I found about this rp though, It seamed like all Balkins nations joined the Coalition durring the Great War, But historicaly they all hated each other. There should be a few Balkins wars before any major war takes place, (but that is just my opinion).
All the Balkan states hated the Hapsburgs more than they hated each other - a fact that St. Petersburg was able to use to its advantage, to the destruction of Austria-Hungary.

All the Balkan states hated the Hapsburgs more than they hated each other - a fact that St. Petersburg was able to use to its advantage, to the destruction of Austria-Hungary.

Not neccisarily. After all, the Bulgarians joined the Central Powers in 1914 (mostly just avenge their losses in the Second Balkans War).

All the Balkan states hated the Hapsburgs more than they hated each other - a fact that St. Petersburg was able to use to its advantage, to the destruction of Austria-Hungary.

their commitment varied as well.. Rumania spent a lot of blood and got big gains in getting Translyvania. Bulgaria committed no troops at all, and suffered not at all during the war, which is about as good as it gets when you are a belligerent. Serbia suffered huge losses, half the country got overrun, and only the commitment of sizeable Russian forces saved them. They did end up as part of Yugoslavia though. Macedonia suffered a bit, and ended up as part of Yugoslavia too. Greece entered the war because the Russians and Turks were stepping all over their neutrality anyway. They suffered some losses at the front, and ended up with Crete and Rhodes.

So basically the Balkans was fought over or used more than anything else, and they really didn't have a choice. The war started there to begin with in any case. Read the War thread (do a search for Galveston Bay, and you should find the Great War thread, and Treaty of Washington Thread, and Military Thread)

I have read the great war thread (I read it over the weekend), I am just saying that they did not always get along, and the second Balkans war is a good example of this.

Okay...

I'll employ two "formal" names for China.

1. Zhonghua Tianguo

2. Greater China

#1 will be used within China, like the USA people call themselves "Americans".

#2 will be used for international politics- for ease of communication and such. Zhonghua Tianguo would be somewhat difficult to fit in internationally because it doesn't say "China" and may confuse diplomats and such.

UPDATE:

Updated Flag Catalog!

Here goes....

http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/3559/flag15ei.png

China

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/1681/flag22jl.png

Germany - Russia Union

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2427/flag38ta.png

The Republic of Albania[/QUOTE]

http://www.worldstatesmen.org/za-1928.gif

The Union of South Africa

http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/1386/flag81re.jpg

The Argentinian Tributary of New Zion

http://www.freewebs.com/roffkaiser/Crest.bmp

Federated States of Yugoslavia

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/frenchflag.jpg

Republic of France

The Flag of the Ottoman Empire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Turkey_flag_large.png

WHEN DID WE GET FLAGS?!!? oh well ill get one by tommorow....

I have a question relating to Afghanistan in this rp world of ours. I remember back in Augt, Persia and Britian invade Afghanistan...from what I recall Britian gain some areas of Afghanistan, and Persia was about to gain some lands, but the player change to Germany, just making Persia a NPC nation and I went ahead and conquer in 1904 or 1906...but I didn't go after Afghanistan..so I don't know what's parts of Afghanistan are British and what parts are warlord rule or something..could someone help me on this topic.

I was probably (well, almost certainly) too harsh on Amestria. It drives me nuts, though, when someone keeps arguing the same thing over and over, without listening or apparently considering that other people might know what they're talking about.
I'll try to be more civil, though.
The Union between Russia and Germany is going to happen (both players have agreed). The details have yet to be negotiated, but, as players, he'll basically be Bad Commie (and nuts and bolts, military, etc.) while I'll be Good Commie (and strategy, politics, etc.), with both of us sharing responsibilities.
With regard to our nations, the individuality of the states involved will continue to be respected (although I think both us will be playing both Russians and Germans--he gets Liebknecht, I get Luxemburg, I get Kerensky, he gets Zhukov). Nevertheless, the governments will be more integrated than unified as such. It is not Russia "taking over" Germany. Nor the other way round.
I anticipate some unrest among counterrevolutionary nationalistic types as a result. But even historically, the Soviets used the carrot as well as the stick. Stalin suppressed Ukrainians, Finns, Poles, Georgians, and Cossacks with undeniable brutality, but there was also, especially early on, a genuine effort to incorporate minorities into the government, especially from Central Asia. I've been taking this tack under Kerensky already (the world's first affirmative action law was passed by the USDR legislature back in, like, 1913). That's the alternate in alternate history, after all. I view it as my challenge to see how well I can make Communism actually work.
Anyway. As I say, I will try to be more civil.

Proposed Union "Great Banner"

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6981/union1m8wk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Edit - You were posting while I was
The merger will be gradual. Again, I say, it's not a case of Germany "losing" independence to Russia. More of closer partnership. You hadn't asked.

Nice. A joint Russo-German Red venture......that'll make things fun.

I was wondering who is playing Holland or Dutch? Or is Dutch / Holland a NPC nation here?

Someone called [---Zeon---], but he/she does'ent have a thread and I don't think has been active at all... Maybe it should become an NPC under mod. control...

Is Dutch / Holland considered as Denmark? That has always confused me. :confused:

I was wondering who is playing Holland or Dutch? Or is Dutch / Holland a NPC nation here?

nothing out of the Netherlands for some time, so for now they are a neutral nation under the control of the referees, which is appropriate I suppose

Is Dutch / Holland considered as Denmark? That has always confused me. :confused:

the Dutch are from the Netherlands, and Holland is simply one of the proviences. The Danes are from Denmark

the Dutch are from the Netherlands, and Holland is simply one of the proviences. The Danes are from Denmark

Thanks.

I have always thought the Netherlands and Denmark were the same thing. China may have a proposition or two for the Dutch / Netherlands, so I am not exactly sure how to go about this.

nothing out of the Netherlands for some time, so for now they are a neutral nation under the control of the referees, which is appropriate I suppose
---Zeon--- had some RL issues, and requested of Hrstrovokia an extension of leeway. But, yes, I'd say for the moment at least the Netherlands is under Mod control as a neutral state, following RL history.

Thanks.

I have always thought the Netherlands and Denmark were the same thing. China may have a proposition or two for the Dutch / Netherlands, so I am not exactly sure how to go about this.


well, the Dutch are getting very rich from the Dutch East Indies, particularly because Royal Dutch (which we know call Shell Oil) and Texaco are producing oil in Sumatra and Borneo, and of course the spice trade still continues. Half of their navy is there, and the US has significant economic interests there, as do the British. So getting that isn't going to be easy. Although supplying arms to all of the ethnic Chinese there is a possibility for you, it could lead to extremely counterproductive results (read what happened to the ethnic Chinese in the 1960s when the Indonesians had a coup). That and the fact that historically the Dutch tried to take back Indonesia even after being occupied for 5 years by the Germans themselves (and their colony for 3 years by the Japanese) shows how stubborn the Dutch are.

Do you have any good website reads on that Indochinese thing from the 1960's?

I'm looking to try to expand a bit, if not Dutch East Indies, then probably Siam.

GB or VP please get on Chatzy I need to talk to one of you on a matter of interested.

OOC: Siam would not be an easy conquest... By the way does China control Tibet or is it defacto independent (historicaly it was independent until the Communist invaded in the 50s)

OOC: Siam would not be an easy conquest... By the way does China control Tibet or is it defacto independent (historicaly it was independent until the Communist invaded in the 50s)
Well in this timeline, the Qing are still in power and therefore no civil war, and Tibet is still under Chinese rule, since it couldn't break out in this timeline.

OOC: Siam would not be an easy conquest... By the way does China control Tibet or is it defacto independent (historicaly it was independent until the Communist invaded in the 50s)

According to the Foreign Possessions thread, China owns Nepal and Bhutan (in addition to Mongolia and Tibet).

I'm itching to start some kind of pan-Asian movement and kick out the Europeans (not counting Russia) from Indochina, Dutch East Indies, Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangledesh, India, etc.

According to the Foreign Possessions thread, China owns Nepal and Bhutan (in addition to Mongolia and Tibet).

I'm itching to start some kind of pan-Asian movement and kick out the Europeans (not counting Russia) from Indochina, Dutch East Indies, Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangledesh, India, etc.

Yes, but how much control does China really have over those areas? They are mountous, remote and land-locked. And the Qin dynasty never had much control in the best of days...

From the Wikipedia

After 1907, a treaty between Britain, China, and Russia recognized Chinese sovereignty over Tibet. The Chinese established direct rule for the first time in 1910. It was not to last long, however, as Chinese troops had to withdraw to their homeland to fight in the 1911 Revolution, giving the Dalai Lama the opportunity to re-establish control. In 1913, Tibet and Mongolia signed a treaty proclaiming mutual recognition and their independence from China. In 1914 a treaty was negotiated in India by representatives of China, Tibet and Britain: the Simla Convention. Chinese suzerainty over Tibet and Tibetan autonomy were both recognized and a boundary negotiated between British India and Tibet which was very generous to Britain. The treaty was privately signed by Britain and Tibet; however, the Chinese side refused to sign the agreement, viewing it as being too yielding. China has never recognized the agreement nor the boundary set by it, thus paving the way to the Arunachal Pradesh dispute between China and India today.

The subsequent outbreak of World War I and civil war in China caused the Western powers and China to lose interest in Tibet, and the 13th Dalai Lama ruled undisturbed. At that time the government of Tibet controlled all of Ü-Tsang (Dbus-gtsang) and western Kham (Khams), roughly coincident with the borders of Tibet Autonomous Region today. Eastern Kham, separated by the Yangtze River was under the control of Chinese warlord Liu Wenhui. The situation in Amdo (Qinghai) was more complicated, with the Xining area controlled by ethnic Hui warlord Ma Bufang, who constantly strove to exert control over the rest of Amdo (Qinghai).

Well here is the thing, there was no 1911 Revolution, so therefore the Chinese troops didn't withdraw , so yes its under Chinese rule.

I have a question relating to Afghanistan in this rp world of ours. I remember back in Augt, Persia and Britian invade Afghanistan...from what I recall Britian gain some areas of Afghanistan, and Persia was about to gain some lands, but the player change to Germany, just making Persia a NPC nation and I went ahead and conquer in 1904 or 1906...but I didn't go after Afghanistan..so I don't know what's parts of Afghanistan are British and what parts are warlord rule or something..could someone help me on this topic.

assume at this point that Afghanistan is essentially a place, not a country, and the British have a client king in Kabual, and the rest of the country is warring tribes (apparently that situation is timeless)... that remains the situation pretty much until the British pulled out of India in 1949, although I suppose the Russians could start playing games there now.

Well here is the thing, there was no 1911 Revolution, so therefore the Chinese troops didn't withdraw , so yes its under Chinese rule.

But was that treaty signed in this time-line, the boxer rebellion happened quite differently...

But was that treaty signed in this time-line, the boxer rebellion happened quite differently...
Who knows , lets just have to mods figure this one out..

Nepal is essentially a British client state at this point in history, although I suppose its possible it pays China tribute, it wouldn't feel the need to anymore. Same with Bhutan. The fact the Tibet and the Himalayas are impassable to pre airlift supplied armies keeps the Chinese far away.

Siam is independent, has an army of a couple of divisions with inadequate training, and remains independent to provide buffer state between French Indochina and British Burma and Malaya. Geography would force the Chinese to come through Laos to get to Siam or through Burma, and neither would be much fun (some nasty mountains and jungles). Or they can invade by sea, if the French or British allow it.

Tibet and Sinkkiang belong to China, as tributary states, but are de facto independent for the most part, and are either tribal (Sinkkiang) or feudal (Tibet). The harsh climate of both places historically has prevented substantial settlement by ethnic Chinese as agriculture is either very difficult or essentially impossible on a large scale due to climatic and geographical conditions. Mongolia is the same way. The vast Gobi Desert which has the distinction of being bitterly cold in the winter and oven hot in the summer and is baked gravel pretty much all the way except for some dune fields is the factor there. There is some steppe, in Outer Mongolia, which is independent at this point and a Russian client state (and probably Communist now too).

Our Mongolian player never defined if he was Inner Mongolia (which would have made crushing him really easy by China) or Outer Mongolia (in which case he was a client of Russia, who would easily have bribed a competing chieftan to take his place)

Nepal is essentially a British client state at this point in history, although I suppose its possible it pays China tribute, it wouldn't feel the need to anymore. Same with Bhutan. The fact the Tibet and the Himalayas are impassable to pre airlift supplied armies keeps the Chinese far away.

Siam is independent, has an army of a couple of divisions with inadequate training, and remains independent to provide buffer state between French Indochina and British Burma and Malaya. Geography would force the Chinese to come through Laos to get to Siam or through Burma, and neither would be much fun (some nasty mountains and jungles). Or they can invade by sea, if the French or British allow it.

Tibet and Sinkkiang belong to China, as tributary states, but are de facto independent for the most part, and are either tribal (Sinkkiang) or feudal (Tibet). The harsh climate of both places historically has prevented substantial settlement by ethnic Chinese as agriculture is either very difficult or essentially impossible on a large scale due to climatic and geographical conditions. Mongolia is the same way. The vast Gobi Desert which has the distinction of being bitterly cold in the winter and oven hot in the summer and is baked gravel pretty much all the way except for some dune fields is the factor there. There is some steppe, in Outer Mongolia, which is independent at this point and a Russian client state (and probably Communist now too).

Our Mongolian player never defined if he was Inner Mongolia (which would have made crushing him really easy by China) or Outer Mongolia (in which case he was a client of Russia, who would easily have bribed a competing chieftan to take his place)

Now I'm getting quite confused.

First, with the new government in place in 1901 onwards with political stability that 20th century China never had (you said that yourself), there would have been serious efforts to shore up Chinese "colonies" or "tributary states". Not only that, but China is able to modernize much better by 1920 than historically in RL. This should allow for more control over those provinces (better government, plane airlift supplies, and the like).

Second, the Foreign Claims list puts me down as the owner of Nepal. With a stronger and much more efficient Chinese government, China would be much more inclined to consolidate its control over Tibet, Bhutan, Nepal, and Mongolia.

Third, the fact of the matter is that with a different Chinese government, the RL treaties and such after 1901, or RL events between Russia - China, Britain - China, and so on will be different (or invalid).

This is getting more and more confusing as we try to figure out who owns what, and whether our alternate history nations did consolidate control or not. :confused:

China probably has more influence and indirect control over those areas in the Alt. time line then in the real time-line (as the government is more stable and advanced).

But these areas are independent of direct control (and not very valuable either) at this time... Twenty years from now (or less) and China will have the tech. ability to applie direct control...

China probably has more influence and indirect control over those areas in the Alt. time line then in the real time-line (as the government is more stable and advanced).

But these areas are independent of direct control (and not very valuable either) at this time... Twenty years from now (or less) and China will have the tech. ability to applie direct control...

True- however, those mountains are providing China with considerable raw materials like coal, iron, tungsten, gold, gems, etc.

China has a lot of mountains... Where does the border to China end and Tibet begin? There is no defined border. I have an atlas from the early 30s, want me to look into where the Chinese mountain range became (at least to Europeans) the Tibet mountain range?

China has a lot of mountains... Where does the border to China end and Tibet begin? There is no defined border. I have an atlas from the early 30s, want me to look into where the Chinese mountain range became (at least to Europeans) the Tibet mountain range?

Sure- I'd appreciate that. :)

Now I'm getting quite confused.

First, with the new government in place in 1901 onwards with political stability that 20th century China never had (you said that yourself), there would have been serious efforts to shore up Chinese "colonies" or "tributary states". Not only that, but China is able to modernize much better by 1920 than historically in RL. This should allow for more control over those provinces (better government, plane airlift supplies, and the like).

Second, the Foreign Claims list puts me down as the owner of Nepal. With a stronger and much more efficient Chinese government, China would be much more inclined to consolidate its control over Tibet, Bhutan, Nepal, and Mongolia.

Third, the fact of the matter is that with a different Chinese government, the RL treaties and such after 1901, or RL events between Russia - China, Britain - China, and so on will be different (or invalid).

This is getting more and more confusing as we try to figure out who owns what, and whether our alternate history nations did consolidate control or not. :confused:


you shouldn't have been given Nepal and Bhutan, I must have missed it. They have been tied to Indian history their entire existance, and have almost no cultural influences from China.

Tibet I can easily see you securing, its semi reachable with considerable effort, but truthfully I have been assuming that you have concentrated on your core regions first, and then worrying about the barbarians living further out. Sinkkiang is more important than Tibet though, for your purposes and since you indicated you are building a railroad in that direction, I assume more political control than historic, but they are still mostly tribal hunter gathers and herders, as there isn't the water for large scale agriculture. Mining is doable though.

Mongolia is always been two parts... Inner Mongolia, which is part of China and has been for centuries, and Outer Mongolia, which the Russians gain control over in the 1800s (prior to that was essentially ignored as a bunch of savages by the Manchu government). Same ethnic group though. Since the player who called himself Mongolia failed to distinguish where he was, and directed his attention toward China, I went with him being in Inner Mongolia. Which made crushing him by you fairly predictable.

Heres an image from the wikipedia on the autonomous region of Tibet. The provinces are under Chinese control (a loose control). The autonomous region is defacto independent. It is identical to the map in my atlas (minus the color and details on how this relates to the 20th century). The geographic area of Tibet is split roughly in half....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:TAR-TAP-TAC.png

you shouldn't have been given Nepal and Bhutan, I must have missed it. They have been tied to Indian history their entire existance, and have almost no cultural influences from China.

Tibet I can easily see you securing, its semi reachable with considerable effort, but truthfully I have been assuming that you have concentrated on your core regions first, and then worrying about the barbarians living further out. Sinkkiang is more important than Tibet though, for your purposes and since you indicated you are building a railroad in that direction, I assume more political control than historic, but they are still mostly tribal hunter gathers and herders, as there isn't the water for large scale agriculture. Mining is doable though.

Mongolia is always been two parts... Inner Mongolia, which is part of China and has been for centuries, and Outer Mongolia, which the Russians gain control over in the 1800s (prior to that was essentially ignored as a bunch of savages by the Manchu government). Same ethnic group though. Since the player who called himself Mongolia failed to distinguish where he was, and directed his attention toward China, I went with him being in Inner Mongolia. Which made crushing him by you fairly predictable.

Thanks for the clarification, GB.

I'd like to clarify a few things myself.

First, I'm still interested in acquiring Nepal and Bhutan so that China will have more control over the Himalayan Range, and the possible massive quantities of raw resources within the Himalayas.

Second, should Tibet be considered Chinese or non-Chinese controlled by now in 1920?

Third, I can secure Sinkkiang, by building irrigation systems, or provide incentive for the hunter-gatherer tribes to join China. These hunter-gatherers can become miners and recieve good pay as China is investing considerably in mining to fuel its growing economy.

Fourth, I haven't taken military action aganist Mongolian independence movement. Like I told you guys yesterday on Chatzy, I moved several million Chinese citizens to Mongolia, transforming the Mongolian people into a minority. This means independence will be near-impossible, as there will be far more Chinese who will be able to effectively block any pro-Mongolian democracy government than there are pro-Mongolians, as the Chinese "colonists" in Mongolia will simply vote to re-integrate back into China. This is a peaceful way to prevent (not 100% though) independence.

Basically...

5+ million Chinese "colonists" > 1 million native Mongolians = peaceful prevention of independence.


Finally, how do you figure I could try out my hand at consolidation of Nepal, Bhutan, and possibly Siam? I'm itching to try something new, other than simply sit on the sidelines of international politics.

To get Siam you first have to get the Frence out of Indo-China or gain control Laos.

As for Nepal and Bhutan, I don't think you can do anything until you have mid-20th century air tech. You also have to get them before India becomes independent or you would have to go to war with them (as happened in real life over a border dispute).

There is, if you want something close and without hassel, the Kingdom of Korea.

And the Japanese have some Pacific territories (although at present they are your ally).

By the way it says that Albania and Bulgaria are pocessions of Turkey, that is incorrect and needs to be fixed.

Posted my rough sketch of Chinese ships (that I plan to build now that the British and Italians finished building shipyards for me in China) in the military thread.

I'd really like to hear any feasible suggestions and recommendations regarding possible Chinese expansion, or at the very least, do some exciting RP stuff between 1920 - 1930.

Here's the situation...

1. Current International relations:

China is allied to Japan and Korea.

China is on excellent terms with Germany.

China is on good terms with Russia, Britain, and Italy. Some other nations like Australia, Colombia, Sweden, Norway, etc.

China's relationship with the USA is questionable- China is not sure whether to consider the USA friendly, neutral, or wary.

China is wary of the French, owing to repeated French refusal to sell Indochina to China, and interfering with China's plan of integrating the multiple tiny nations around China into a Greater China.

2. What I want to do... (1920 - 1930)

China consolidates its hold over Mongolia and Tibet.

China might desire to acquire Siam as it is currently unable to purchase Indochina from France (still a sore point with some Chinese) or the Dutch East Indies from the Dutch.

China wants to flex its newfound political, economic, and military strength.

3. Long term goal: (1930 - 1960+)

Unify all of mainland Asia (with exception of Russia and Ottomans) under Chinese rule. Some of the nations to be brought under Chinese rule would include Nepal, Bhutan, Bangledesh, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Siam / Thailand, Malaysia, etc.


So as you can see, I'm really itching for a good Asian RP, but I'm not sure where, what, or how to go about it without screwing over the players behind Korea or Japan- New Dornalia and Council of Clan respectively (They seem to be excellent RP'ers and I don't want them to quit this RP if their nation gets "defeated")

Any recommendations or suggestions would be vastly appreciated! :)

OOC: I'd say China's first priority should be Frence Indo-China, as it is the most geographically close and China has historically dominated that Region. The Vietnamese have voted for independence, but the French have rejected there demands (so there is a lot of anti-colonial feeling there, how China deals with this could be interesting). Also the only way to reach Siam without a massive navy is through French Indo-China (or the Laos part of it, jungles infested with malaria).

The Japanese, Austrialians and British are plotting to invade and split the Dutch East Indeas (oil, spices, est.). China's reaction to that could provide some fun.

As for the United States, theres an election in Nov. The new administration could be more friendly or more hostile towards China...

Also theres the issue of internal problems. A famine or earth quake could lead to revolt. Pro-democracy or pro-communist groups might cause trouble. In China's Central Asian provinces there is a muslem minority who do not see themselves as part of China (traitors!). There is the issue of the Imperial family and successon (there's still a dynasty to maintain). China is large, leaving much room for creativity :D

ooc
to clarify.... China owns Sinkkaing and Tibet as tributory possessions and part of its national territory, although neither area is ethnically Chinese. The US and Japan recognized Korea as part of China's sphere of influence some time back (1904 or 05, I forget which). Obtaining the Dutch East Indies, Burma, Siam, French Indochina or Malaya will require a war against the British, Dutch and or French.

The US has friendly, but neutral relations with China. The Democrats are for maintaining that relationship, primarily because they have big supporters in Labor , and Labor is generally pro protectionist. The Democrats view Japan as more critical to the immediate future, but the importance of China is recognized.

Finally, an important thing to remember about the historical American National Strategy in the 20th Century. It was to ensure three things:

1. No nation became powerful enough in the Western Hemisphere to threaten the US
2. No nation became powerful enough in Europe as to unify it and therefore be able to build a navy and an army capable of invading the Western Hemisphere successfully.
3. No nation became powerful enough in Asia as to unify it and therefore be able to build a navy and an army capable of invading the Western Hemisphere successfully.

So eventually the US and China aren't going to see eye to eye on Chinese strategy to say the least.

ooc
to clarify.... China owns Sinkkaing and Tibet as tributory possessions and part of its national territory, although neither area is ethnically Chinese. The US and Japan recognized Korea as part of China's sphere of influence some time back (1904 or 05, I forget which). Obtaining the Dutch East Indies, Burma, Siam, French Indochina or Malaya will require a war against the British, Dutch and or French.

I can easily remedy the "ethnic" issue by sending Chinese colonists to populate Tibet and Sinkkaing. This will make these two provinces predominatly Chinese, just like what I'm doing to Mongolia.

As for the other provinces- a war with the Dutch will be easier than one with Britain or France. I'm led to believe that the Dutch are somewhat weaker than Britain and France, and if I can eliminate the Dutch Navy stationed in Indonesia then it will be a great blow to Dutch.

Pearl Harbor, anyone? :D

After I deal with the Dutch, I can turn my attention onto France, but I will probably have to wait until World War II for this to happen. World War II is inevitable, with the growing communism and anti-communism sentiments in the world.

Then depending if Britain intervenes, I'll go after the British colonies. In my opinion, the British and French fleets won't be able to reach the "core" of China, the most damage that they can do is bombard the shorelines and maybe occupy Shanghai and Tienstin. However, they will have difficulty sending warships up rivers because I'll have dams all over most of the rivers for hydro-power, and any breach of the dam = huge water flood wipe out British / French fleets sailing up the rivers. Not only that, but there will be massive civilian casaulties, which will rally even the USA aganist Britain and France for killing millions of Chinese civilians (if they blow my dams).

The French and British probably don't have enough soldiers to win in China, mainly because of two reasons. First, the logistics in such an endeavour would be a nightmare for the British and French, while Chinese logistics will practially be a cake-walk, it being on Chinese soil "right at home". Second, if they devote a major portion of their Army (or any land-based military), it will invite Germany, Russia, or other anti-French or anti-British nations to open up a whole world of hurt upon the British and French homelands.

Needless to say, it will be quite interesting. Imagine a World War 2 full scale in Asia (on the same scale as in Europe). :p

The US has friendly, but neutral relations with China. The Democrats are for maintaining that relationship, primarily because they have big supporters in Labor , and Labor is generally pro protectionist. The Democrats view Japan as more critical to the immediate future, but the importance of China is recognized.

Perhaps that will change- who knows what will happen in USA politics down the line. Maybe the USA will go hostile, or go "ally-buddy" with China. Who knows?

Finally, an important thing to remember about the historical American National Strategy in the 20th Century. It was to ensure three things:

1. No nation became powerful enough in the Western Hemisphere to threaten the US
2. No nation became powerful enough in Europe as to unify it and therefore be able to build a navy and an army capable of invading the Western Hemisphere successfully.
3. No nation became powerful enough in Asia as to unify it and therefore be able to build a navy and an army capable of invading the Western Hemisphere successfully.

So eventually the US and China aren't going to see eye to eye on Chinese strategy to say the least.

That'll be something fun to RP out once we get to that point.

However, what of the British? They own almost 1/5 of the world and control a massive "Empire". Likewise for France in Africa.

On the other hand, should China and the USA get to odds over these 3 doctrine points you stated, there's always the possibility of splitting the world into "Spheres" and a mutual non-aggression and non-invade pact. Maybe that could work a few decades down the line, maybe 1950 or so?

Pro-Communists shouldn't be a problem in China....

Parthini']Pro-Communists shouldn't be a problem in China....

Eh? What do you mean?

As I said the other day on Chatzy, China is going to remain an Imperial nation, with a Dynasty begun by Prince Tuan (now Emperor Guozu). I doubt China will go communist, as there is governmental stability, and OOC'ly I want to explore having a strong imperial family stay in power in China instead of going the historical communist route.

However, China will not persecute or take any negative actions aganist pro-communists. China will pride itself on tolerance, something Europe is sorely lacking- Christian aganist Muslim, Democracy / Republics aganist Communism, etc.

Romania=The United Kingdom Of Romania
Flag:Here (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=d9ro34r7ft6a6?method=4&dsname=Wikipedia+Images&dekey=Rumania.gif&gwp=8&sbid=lc04a&linktext=%3CIMG%20height%3D132%20alt%3D%22Kingdom%20of%20Romania%20state%20flag%22%20src%3D%22http%3 A%2F%2Fcontent.answers.com%2Fmain%2Fcontent%2Fwp%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F4%2F49%2F200px-Rumania.gif%22%20width%3D200%3E)

I can easily remedy the "ethnic" issue by sending Chinese colonists to populate Tibet and Sinkkaing. This will make these two provinces predominatly Chinese, just like what I'm doing to Mongolia.

As for the other provinces- a war with the Dutch will be easier than one with Britain or France. I'm led to believe that the Dutch are somewhat weaker than Britain and France, and if I can eliminate the Dutch Navy stationed in Indonesia then it will be a great blow to Dutch.

Pearl Harbor, anyone? :D

After I deal with the Dutch, I can turn my attention onto France, but I will probably have to waThen depending if Britain intervenes, I'll go after the British colonies. In my opinion, the British and French fleets won't be able to reach the "core" of China, the most damage that they can do is bombard the shorelines and maybe occupy Shanghai and Tienstin. However, they will have difficulty sending warships up rivers because I'll have dams all over most of the rivers for hydro-power, and any breach of the dam = huge water flood wipe out British / French fleets sailing up the rivers. Not only that, but there will be massive civilian casaulties, which will rally even the USA aganist Britain and France for killing millions of Chinese civilians (if they blow my dams).
it until World War II for this to happen. World War II is inevitable, with the growing communism and anti-communism sentiments in the world.


The French and British probably don't have enough soldiers to win in China, mainly because of two reasons. First, the logistics in such an endeavour would be a nightmare for the British and French, while Chinese logistics will practially be a cake-walk, it being on Chinese soil "right at home". Second, if they devote a major portion of their Army (or any land-based military), it will invite Germany, Russia, or other anti-French or anti-British nations to open up a whole world of hurt upon the British and French homelands.

Needless to say, it will be quite interesting. Imagine a World War 2 full scale in Asia (on the same scale as in Europe). :p



Perhaps that will change- who knows what will happen in USA politics down the line. Maybe the USA will go hostile, or go "ally-buddy" with China. Who knows?



That'll be something fun to RP out once we get to that point.

However, what of the British? They own almost 1/5 of the world and control a massive "Empire". Likewise for France in Africa.

On the other hand, should China and the USA get to odds over these 3 doctrine points you stated, there's always the possibility of splitting the world into "Spheres" and a mutual non-aggression and non-invade pact. Maybe that could work a few decades down the line, maybe 1950 or so?


OOC: I remind you that in our treaty I agreed to stay off the mainland of Asia if you give up all the Islands. Which would include the Dutch East Indies.

And your ignoring the fact that the Japanese still support the French. and Relations with Britain are warming

OOC: I remind you that in our treaty I agreed to stay off the mainland of Asia if you give up all the Islands. Which would include the Dutch East Indies.

And your ignoring the fact that the Japanese still support the French. and Relations with Britain are warming

China's beginning to think "To hell with France and the Dutch- they have done nothing helpful for or with China, and they do not have Chinese interests in heart. So they do not deserve to stay in Asia, nor exert any control over any Asian populace or possessions"

Thus, if Japan intervenes aganist China on the behalf of the Dutch or French, then the treaty of "Japan gets the Islands, and China stays on Mainland" will be put in question.

I'm going to be relying on the nightmare logistics the Europeans will experience in trying to fend off a Chinese invasion, as well as a "Pearl Harbor" on the Dutch and French fleets in Indonesia / Indochina (if I go ahead with the invasion)

This means Dutch and French navy in Asia will be severely compromised, forcing them to either sacrifice more military assets to fight China, leaving their homelands less defended, allowing a possible spread of Communism or such. Or give up their Asian colonies to keep a strong military presence in Europe and Africa.

erm... don't you need something very very revolutionary in the field of naval warfare (like an aircraft carrier with suitable aircraft) to surprise the dutch (and their allies) and do a "pearl harbour"? otherwise it's pretty much a normal naval battle, isn't it???

Eh? What do you mean?

As I said the other day on Chatzy, China is going to remain an Imperial nation, with a Dynasty begun by Prince Tuan (now Emperor Guozu). I doubt China will go communist, as there is governmental stability, and OOC'ly I want to explore having a strong imperial family stay in power in China instead of going the historical communist route.

Dynasties have complex internal politics and there is also the threat of other would be emperors (the Qin dynasty only last two generations, for example).


However, China will not persecute or take any negative actions aganist pro-communists. China will pride itself on tolerance, something Europe is sorely lacking- Christian aganist Muslim, Democracy / Republics aganist Communism, etc.

If the communists or democrats start preacing violent revolution and begin disrupting the social order I doubt China could afford to be so tolorant. By the way Moe should have joined the communist party by now and formed his own theories (except that the leadership of the party has side-lined him). Or has something different happened in the time-line to Moe...

Japan would like to remind their Chinese Ally that any action taken, after sufficient reminders, would look bad not only to thier Japanese allies, but also to the remainder of the world. Japan would remind China that they are not an Island unto themselves, but part of a multi-national economy that could be cut off with little effort, should they attack a soveriegn nation's colonies. Japan also would like to remind China that they are willing to support France and the Dutch over China, should such a attack come to pass. Furthermore they remind the Chinese that their navy is quite large compared to the Chinese navy, and that they, unlike the Chinese, have allies willing to support them should a conflict break out.

Japan also announces that it is calling up 100,000 reserves to active status, the duration of said activation unstated.

As to the queries about the foreign possessions thread and it's inaccuracies, I am unable to cheack every thread and post on the forum for who owns what and whatever. I basically rely on people who know there's a mistake to post over on the foreign posessions thread so that it's in one easily recognisable place for me to ckeck and update. So if you spot anything that threads the place to post. This thread is massive and too tedious to check for updates. I will do any I spot though.

So far I have:

Bhutan and Nepal - Britain from Chian
Albania and Romania - Independent from Ottomans.

Thanks Guys.

China is not subject to the mercies of the British Navy. If you remember, a huge railroad connects China and Eurasia, and from what I last saw, that's a pretty big market.

Plus, the Chinese Emperor is safe, as long as he does good for the people, and I think having the Chinese be masters of the barbarians looks pretty good. The Mandate of Heaven is still around.

Lastly, Sun Yat-Sen should be taking more priority than Mao. He was so much more important than Mao, until he died in the '20s and had the arse Chiang Kai-Shek take over. Mao was only a reactionary to the practically fascist Chiang.

(Chinese 20th Century is kindof my specialty. 1/3 of our world history class was all that.)

Here is a link for the Bolivian News theard:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9613686#post9613686

True, but Moa is still important and at this time would be starting to become active... And with Sun Yat-Sen's death he will become the most important Chinese revolutionary leader.

From the Wikipedia

Instead of going abroad which was the path of many of his radical compatriots, Mao spent the early 1920s traveling in China, and finally returned to Hunan, where he took the lead in promoting collective action and labor rights.

At age 27, Mao attended the First Congress of the Communist Party of China in Shanghai on July 23, 1921. Two years later he was elected to the Central Committee of the party at the Third Congress. (End quote)

Unless something dramatic happened to him, I doubt he would be doing anything different in the Alt. time line. China's more stable and advanced but still a capitalist dictatorship (from a communists prespective) and the trans-Eurasian railway only increases the amount of communist influence China will be exposed too...

Japan would like to remind their Chinese Ally that any action taken, after sufficient reminders, would look bad not only to thier Japanese allies, but also to the remainder of the world. Japan would remind China that they are not an Island unto themselves, but part of a multi-national economy that could be cut off with little effort, should they attack a soveriegn nation's colonies. Japan also would like to remind China that they are willing to support France and the Dutch over China, should such a attack come to pass. Furthermore they remind the Chinese that their navy is quite large compared to the Chinese navy, and that they, unlike the Chinese, have allies willing to support them should a conflict break out.

Japan also announces that it is calling up 100,000 reserves to active status, the duration of said activation unstated.

Actually, what I was saying was OOC. What you just said (in my quote) resembles an IC response to an OOC statement (by me).

As for an "Pearl Harbor" aganist the French and Dutch in Asia- Indochina and Dutch East Indies are right on China's doorstep, as opposed as Japan having to sail somewhere between 7,000 - 8,000 miles from Japan to Hawaii in RL.

For China, the range is reduced substantially- if Chinese planes can fly 500 miles, then Indochina targets will be remarkably easy to reach for "Pearl Harbor" action. For Indonesia, I may have to use carriers, but I'm working on that. Keep in mind, I probably won't do this effort until I've maximized my Navy, gain a few new technologies, train my Navy some more, develop long range bombers (like the British Lancasters), etc.

If Japan chooses to interfere, or attack China, they will have to deal with Chinese bombers bombing the hell out of the Japanese Navy or invasion beach-heads. Also, China's close proximity to Japan (100 - 500 miles) means I can bomb Japanese cities and factories, while Japan cannot reach mid-China or western China where my mines and half of my factories are unless they develop bombers capable of flying 4,000+ miles (2,000 miles into China, then 2,000 miles back to Japan).

I am simply waiting for the right time to kick the French and Dutch out of Asia, as I'm RP'ing as China believing that they don't belong there. China wants to see France, Dutch, and Britain out of Asia after all the terrible things and interference they wreaked upon the Asian people- the Opium Wars and the Boxer Rebellion (both RL and here in E20).

France, Dutch, and Britain out of Asia after all the terrible things and interference they wreaked upon the Asian people- the Opium Wars and the Boxer Rebellion (both RL and here in E20).

France was never in this Boxer Rebellion, the seperation of Church and State kept it out.

France was never in this Boxer Rebellion, the seperation of Church and State kept it out.

That's true- but France has rebuffed Chinese offers and deals, which reflect badly on the French in the eyes of the Chinese. France wanting to hold onto Indochina sends a message to China that France wants to continue suppressing Asians from ruling their (Asians) own lands. This could be classified as "interference" or be considered just as bad as the other Europeans wreaking havoc in China (during Opium Wars and the Boxer Rebellion).

Keep in mind, this is how my China IC'ly views France.

Well, France sees China a getting too big for it's own good, if you know what I mean. They are however frightened by the idea of a war with a modernized China. Luckily for them the Vietnamee hate th Chinese more then they hate the French, so if you actually invaded France will probably call up as many Vietnamese volounteers.

France is going to begin working towards a commonwealth status for Inochina pretty soon.

Well, France sees China a getting too big for it's own good, if you know what I mean. They are however frightened by the idea of a war with a modernized China. Luckily for them the Vietnamee hate th Chinese more then they hate the French, so if you actually invaded France will probably call up as many Vietnamese volounteers.

France is going to begin working towards a commonwealth status for Inochina pretty soon.

OOC:

I'm interested in a possible RP between China and France over Indochina. I think it'd be interesting to see how this alternate China can deal with Westerners on a more equal footing.

China, however, doesn't have any interest in French-held Africa or mainland Europe, as "my" China only wants to unify Asia into a revitalized "Chin" civilization to offset the Russo-German superstate, not Europe, Africa, or the Americas.

we have at least 10 more years before we get bombing aircraft with enough payload and range to do real damage, combat aircraft in this timeline are about where they were in 1915 historically, as we haven't had the Research and Development stimulus of a big war yet involving them.

However, instead of Pearl Harbor, read up on the Japanese torpedo boat attack at Port Arthur at the start of the historical Russo-Japanese War.

we have at least 10 more years before we get bombing aircraft with enough payload and range to do real damage, combat aircraft in this timeline are about where they were in 1915 historically, as we haven't had the Research and Development stimulus of a big war yet involving them.

However, instead of Pearl Harbor, read up on the Japanese torpedo boat attack at Port Arthur at the start of the historical Russo-Japanese War.

Thanks for the info, GB. I'll read into that.

However, I'm not planning on attacking Indochina or Dutch East Indies anytime soon. Probably around 1925 - 1930 (which would concide with the time gap between our two RL world wars as WW 1 in RL went from 1914 to 1918, and WW 2 went from 1939 - 1945 which is a gap of roughly 20-25 years between both World Wars)

I'm still waiting to solidify relations with Russia and Germany, and possibly Italy. China will make no aggressive movements or actions towards Japan, as we still consider Japan as an Asian "brother". However, if Japan sides aganist China, it will seriously damage the standing of Japan in China's vision of "Asian Unity free of Europeans".

Not only that, but it will also give me time to build my battleships, cruisers, destroyers, etc., research new aircraft applications, and possibly some tanks later with Russian and German assistance. I'm not exactly going to rush into this, as I was only outlining what I may want to do with China between 1920 - 1930 instead of having it sit on the sidelines like it did during the Great War (and mostly after Boxer Rebellion).

OOC: Albania, France, and China: y'all have some hot little telegrams in your inbox if you haven't spotted them.

IC:

Italy Announces Plan to Defend Albania

Italy today has announced that it wishes to build up Italo-Albanian relations, and to stimulate them, Italy has announced that any attack on Albania will be treated as an attack on Italy itself. Italy has called upon all of its allies to do the same. Rumor has it that Italy has offered Albania some sort of major treaty, but regardless of Albanian reaction, the Italian stance stays.

What is there in the way of APC's currently?

Italy: TG

Hello, the king of Denamrk will formally house any Germans (especially scientists) threatened by the recent Communist uprising in germany and resulting un-stabilty. Any Germans emigrating from germany to Denmark will be presented with a 150,000 Krone house (With college degree) or a 100,000 Krone House (High School Degree) and a bonus of 10,000 Krones to any one with a college degree in....
1) Aircraft
2) Tanks
3) Engines
4) Heliumn
5) Mathimatics/ Calculas

Any....

Galveston Bay, I've sent you a telegram.

I'm moving towards giving Indochina independence in a few years (or at least make it a commonwealth)...France isn't at all comftorable with the idea of a Chinese super-state.

France hs reluctantly agreed to back Italy on the Albanian issue. People in France are reluctant to be so supportive of some Balkan state that in all likely hood fought against them in the Great War.

OOC: Albania, France, and China: y'all have some hot little telegrams in your inbox if you haven't spotted them.

IC:

Italy Announces Plan to Defend Albania

Italy today has announced that it wishes to build up Italo-Albanian relations, and to stimulate them, Italy has announced that any attack on Albania will be treated as an attack on Italy itself. Italy has called upon all of its allies to do the same. Rumor has it that Italy has offered Albania some sort of major treaty, but regardless of Albanian reaction, the Italian stance stays.
The Union denounces this act as the transparent effort of pathetic would-be imperialists in Rome to expand their influence in the Balkans at the expense of the free peoples therein.
Any Italian troops or naval vessels stationed in the Balkans will be regarded as hostile forces directed against the Union and its allies, and will be treated accordingly.

The Commissariat of the Union of Social-Democratic Republics

OoC: Good grief. Do you guys really have to play the war-mongering monarcho-capitalist swine quite so well? I mean, I'm playing a multi-paty democracy that hasn't even done anything, yet. I don't have time for a war right now, seriously. I'd have to withdraw from the game and let someone else take Russia. So please just back off for a couple weeks, alright? Criminy.

France hs reluctantly agreed to back Italy on the Albanian issue. People in France are reluctant to be so supportive of some Balkan state that in all likely hood fought against them in the Great War.

Albania did not participate in the Great War as it was dealing with it's own civil war/breakdown at the time and did not have an organized military.

The Union denounces this act as the transparent effort of pathetic would-be imperialists in Rome to expand their influence in the Balkans at the expense of the free peoples therein.
Any Italian troops or naval vessels stationed in the Balkans will be regarded as hostile forces directed against the Union and its allies, and will be treated accordingly.

The Commissariat of the Union of Social-Democratic Republics
[/i]

The Republic of Free Albania was the nation which asked for the mutual defense treaty with Italy. There are no Italian troops or navel vessals stationed currently in Albania. If the Union of Social-Democratic Republics does not stop threatening us, we may invite them. Albania is a little country of slightly over 900,000 people, we threaten no one.

-Albanian Embassy in Russia

OOC: Russia is over-reacting and needs to back down, the only foreign troops currently in Albania are Yugoslavian, helping to hunt down terrorists, rebels and criminals.

http://www.fotw.net/images/b/bg_878me.gif
National Flag

http://www.fotw.net/images/b/bg_878ne.gif
Naval Ensign

OoC: Good grief. Do you guys really have to play the war-mongering monarcho-capitalist swine quite so well? I mean, I'm playing a multi-paty democracy that hasn't even done anything, yet. I don't have time for a war right now, seriously. I'd have to withdraw from the game and let someone else take Russia. So please just back off for a couple weeks, alright? Criminy.

Hey, France is in no hurry for war. We were willing to sell the mweapons, that's about it. Italy did this on their own. Ae we are allied to them we have decided to reluctantly go along with it...For now.

BTW, Sharina check you TGs. Fluffy-Ignore the ones I sent you, I've reached a different decision.

OOC: Russia is over-reacting and needs to back down, the only foreign troops currently in Albania are Yugoslavian, helping to hunt down terrorists, rebels and criminals.
Russia is not overreacting any more than the United States was when Russia signed a Mutual Defense Pact with Brazil - and in fact, that treaty threatened US interests rather less than Italy's penetration into the Balkans threatens Russia's.
Russia will not back down.

Here is the Bolivian Flag:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bolivia_flag_large.png

Russia is not overreacting any more than the United States was when Russia signed a Mutual Defense Pact with Brazil - and in fact, that treaty threatened US interests rather less than Italy's penetration into the Balkans threatens Russia's.
Russia will not back down.

surely the US was the epitome of restraint and moderation during the Brazilian situation.. chuckle

seriously though, Italy you probably aren't ready for war yet, and you don't have much support to get the rest of us involved in fighting a big war because of some damned fool thing in the Balkans again... stick to covert advisors is the back channel advice you get from the Americans.

Italy you probably aren't ready for war yet, and you don't have much support to get the rest of us involved in fighting a big war because of some damned fool thing in the Balkans again

Frankly, I don't think anyone in Europe is ready for a big war again. After all, I'm sure most Europeans don't want to relive yet another 'Great War', making most belligerent actions on the part of nation Great Power internally dangerous and another war of this sort would most likely bankrupt many European nations that are still paying off debts/rebuilding infastructure, or have undergone violent internal strife recently.

However, I don't really care in the first place, since Belgium can still hide behind it's nice little wall that is neutrality. :)

Galveston Bay I have telegraphed you...

I would say that a good idea for aircraft would be a year or two (2 years) away and a would suspect some german scientists immagrated. Also Denamrk hopes to extend at the same time make the League of Powers to America, Norway, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden, Germany, Austria, and Hungrary.
TG me for agreement or cancellation or for rules other than...

Help keep the soverign nations of the pact soverign.
Support humanitarian aid projects.
Help world order.

Thats all for now.

The new Society of Nations is to be an organization that is designed to help improve the welfare of everyone anywhere in the world and try to settle issues between any nation even if a nation is not a member...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9618135#post9618135post9618135
...if you want to sign up to the new Society Charter or find the Society of Nations Thread (E20).

since Belgium can still hide behind it's nice little wall that is neutrality

Yep that sure worked well in WWII! ;)

The Union has begun mobilizing its European armies in Ukraine, Poland, and Western Russia, and is moving troops to Yugoslavia's borders with Italy and Albania. And both the Baltic and Black Sea Fleets have been placed on alert.
This will also be posted in the Yugoslavia, Albania, and Italy Threads.
You can only push a bear so far into his den before there's trouble.
Just so everyone knows.

OOC: Russia, check the French thread.

IC: France is alarmed by the troop movements and is urging all parties involved to stand down.

Prime Minster Milerand made a pleas to the leaders of Europe, "Have we forgotten the great war that ripped apart Europe only twelve years ago so soon? We must work for a better future and cease this pointless bickering."

The French Mediterriean Fleet has been placed on high alert.

OOC: Russia, check the French thread.

IC: France is alarmed by the troop movements and is urging all parties involved to stand down.

Prime Minster Milerand made a pleas to the leaders of Europe, "Have we forgotten the great war that ripped apart Europe only twelve years ago so soon? We must work for a better future and cease this pointless bickering."

The French Mediterriean Fleet has been placed on high alert.
All that either Albania or Italy has to do is repudiate the Mutual Defense Pact.
Moscow cannot allow a sworn enemy a backdoor with which to invade the territories of the Union's closest allies. This is not unreasonable. We do not consider it bullying. On the contrary, we consider it an honorable defense of our loyal friends, and of the Union's abiding critical interests. We wish for peace no less than anyone else. Such a simple request, so easy to fulfill. But warmongers in Rome and blind fools in Tirana have forced this course upon us. If they should see wisdom, and abandon their own needless hostility, we will stand down happily.

- Commissariat of the Union of Social-Democratic Republics

What if the Albanian Parliament passess a law forbidding Italian troops from setting foot upon our soil?

-Albanian Government

What if the Albanian Parliament passess a law forbidding Italian troops from setting foot upon our soil?

-Albanian Government
The Union would accept this.

Then it shall happen!

-Albanian Government

Agreed.

OOC: I need massive help, I need some msn and aol contacts so I can talk with some historically like minded people about how to set up my news thread. I do want to let you all know that Greece will be goingthrough some massive changes and thats why I am asking for help asap. My msn is: scoyleporosz@gmail.com

OOC: I need massive help, I need some msn and aol contacts so I can talk with some historically like minded people about how to set up my news thread. I do want to let you all know that Greece will be goingthrough some massive changes and thats why I am asking for help asap. My msn is: scoyleporosz@gmail.com

read the Great War thread and the Treaty of Washington thread to find out what has happened in this timeline to Greece, and the economics thread to find the current state of your economy

OOC: If anything can be learned from the events that occured recently in both the Balkins and South America, its that the Cold War has started 25 years early.

OOC: If anything can be learned from the events that occured recently in both the Balkins and South America, its that the Cold War has started 25 years early.

Except there's no nuclear weapons to prevent a worldwide war. No global apocalypse.

ooc: I cant find the Great War thread and the Treaty of Washington threads. Does anyone have links and/or a list of all the links?

OOC: Treaty of Washington:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440593&page=1&pp=15&highlight=Treaty+Washington

Great War:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=438703&page=1&pp=15&highlight=Galveston

Conflict in Albania: (relievent due to your agreement to provide troops)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=443048

Hey Lesser join chatzy

http://www.chatzy.com/684093003041

"In the interests of the greater co-operation and independence fo the peoples of the Middle East from the influences of the European continent, the Republic of Palestine and the Ottoman Empire will form the Middle Eastern Confederacy"

Terms of the Treaty of 1920

1. Palestine and the Ottoman Empire will protect eachother from all attacks.
2. There will be no restriction on Trade and Travel between the two nations
3. Criminals from one nation apprehended in another will be returned to their home nation for trial.
4. A right of passage will be grant, so that both nations within the treaty, may use eachothers railroads and roads to tranport goods and arms to the front in war and peacetime.
5. No European Power may base its troops within the treaty nations regions, without premission of the treaty nations.
6. During times of war, the treaty nations will be obliged to assist each other.
7. All Treaty nations will do their utmost to avoid entering European wars, and will do so only as a last resort.

Sign into effect
By the Ottoman and Palestine Goverments.

While Italy had stood down its troops with the Russian stand down (OOC: I would mobilise if you mobilised), Italy still had something to say about the Russians and their threats.

king Vittorio Emanuele III appeared in Rome today, and he gave a lengthy speech about the evils of communism, the "evil empire" of Russia, and how Russia intended to use Albania to gain territory.

"The Russians have shown that they are an evil, imperialistic people. They mobilise when the free peoples of the world band together to protect themselves from the unnantural and evil ideology of communism, and it is obvious that the Russian Empire desires of Albania a puppet state, one in which tyranny reigns. The Russians speak of peace and democracy, but it they who have been the aggressors in this conflict, they who have denied the rights of self determination to numerous nations.

The Russian cries of "monarcho-capitalism" fall on deaf ears. We Italians cherish our democracy, and tradition has dictated that I, King of Italy, am allowed to remain with few powers. We Italians have had free and fair elections for some time now, and for decades we have given the vote to all citizens, regardless of race, property, or gender. We are a tolerent people, and even when the lunatic fringe demands we plunge into the evils of imperialism or communism, we allow these people to express their opinion and seek office. If we Italians wanted communism, we could have voted communist. We have not. Neither have we voted imperialist.

We have no ill intentions in Albania. We have sent no troops, and all we have done is to tell the world that, should Albania be invaded by some outside force, we will oppose that outside source. With Russian actions, we are certain that this alliance flies in the face of Russian communist imperialism in Albania, certain that our alliance forced the Russians to think twice before swallowing up some other poor nation.

We are glad that our actions have forced sense into the thick communist skull of Russia, and we are glad that the Russians saw reason and overturned its mobilisation. We hope this is a sign that the world's example is beginning to work on Russia. . . ."

I will propose alliance with Germany, Russia, and Brazil with the Peoples Monarchy of Spain. If you guys respond with interest I will create a conference thread between the four of us.

OOC: Just because I can....

IC:

A fascist, enraged at being called part of the lunatic fringe, demonstrated today that the King's remarks were indeed correct. King Vittorio Emanuele III, giving his speech without security (for political considerations, to show he was a man of the people, etc. etc.) was attacked and killed by said fascist. Armed with a dagger, the fascist rushed up to the King, preparing to stab the King. King Vittorio spotted the man's dagger, and drew his saber to block the blow. He drew his sword too late, and the attacker stabbed deep into the King's chest.

But King Vittorio was not about to die without a fight. Mortally wounded, the King managed to skewer the attacker with his sword. Both lived for a few hours, and the attacker divulged his reasons during this time. He died before the King, and the King remarked before his death that "I am glad that before I die, I shall know that I have already avenged my death."

Vittorio's son, Duke Umberto II of Aosta, is to be coronated Re Umberto II of Italy. A funeral is to be planned for King Vittorio, in Rome, and Umberto II has asked leaders from around the world to come. Umberto has also asked the Pope to preside over the ceremony, which is to be a funeral/coronation.

Umberto II will become Italy's youngest monarch, being just 16. However, several sources close to the royal family say that Umberto II has more talent than his father, and that the transition will be smooth.

are the Portugal, Burgundy, Denmark, and Belgium still being played actively?

For that matter, is Korea?

important to know... apparently a role call once a month might be in order (chuckle) as you students get busier while we non students who work for a living continue our buys lives as well

OOC: Korea was just active today.

Denmark was active recently (yesterday)

TO: Rome, Italia
FROM: Bruxelles, Belgium

Dear honorable members of the Italian Government:

On behalf of both myself and the people of Belgium, we would like to offer our deepest condolences to the Italian Royal Family after this tragic event. It is such a pity that a man as talented and good-hearted as the late king must die before his time.

We hope that Duke Umberto II may live up to his predecessor's image and rule over his strong nation with peace and justice for all.

Signed,

Allard Jorgen
President and Leader of Parliment
The Federal Republic of Belgium

OOC: Belgium, we still need to discuss that loan...

For one, the Left Hand is glad the fascist Pig-Dog who slew good German men, has been skewered. Regardless,

Damn my fascist Librarians! I haven't been able to get on all weekend and I miss a chance for WWII. Damn.

And Denmark, do you really think that any scientist in his right mind would even consider leaving Germany when they are paid the absolute most in Germany, just because the Kaiser got offed? I think not.

After bitter debate the Greek King and his ministers decided to follow through with their plan and once again shake the world. The king left the meeting feeling great, he had a devious look to him as he walked down the great hall to his chambers. Going through his mind was the different senario's of what could happen once this deed was done. He knew that many would be angry but many of his followers wouldhave a renewed conividence once his plan went into action. As he opened his door he looked out the window to the right of his door and outside he seen his soldiers marching about, he stopped and then said, "God they have no Idea what I am about to do." He contiuned and laughed all the way into his room.

6 hours later

At the crack of dawn one of the Kings personal Guards ran into his room with a telegram addressed to the king. "Here you go your highness, a letter from Admir.." suddenly the King stopped the guard and said, "don't say a word, you never got this telegram and you never came to my room. Got it" the guard began to shake but quickly regained his strenght, "Sir, Yes Sir!" Once the guard left and the door closed the king throw the telegram in the fire and mumored, "Oh Admiral you have done well".

Roughly 20 minutes before Admiral

Comminque to Italy
From: Greater China

Greetings.

We are greatly saddened that your King had been murdered. Your King was strong as he was able to avenge his own death. If more Italians are like that, your nation shows promise as one of the greatest in Western Europe.

I shall personally attend the funeral of your King. May his memory and legacy live on within his son, and may the son bring more prosperity to Italy, surpassing his father.

Go in peace,
~Emperor Guozu

OOC:

I posted my first Chinese airplane (The Chinese call it Airship) over at the Military Thread. Keep in mind, I suck royally at stats and military hardware, so please bear with me. :)

are the Portugal, Burgundy, Denmark, and Belgium still being played actively?

For that matter, is Korea?

important to know... apparently a role call once a month might be in order (chuckle) as you students get busier while we non students who work for a living continue our buys lives as well

Aye, I'm here. I'm afraid school just started, so I haven't been playing as much as I should. I'm still hovering around, though.

What I'd like to do eventually is establish some kind of European Coal and Steel and Community, or some forerunner to the EU; maybe even a UNesque organization, as I don't think our timeline has that. But, I suppose it might take another war to do that?

OOC: Not neccessarly, theres talk of a confrence due to the close call in the Balkins. Maybe it will happen after Italy's old king is buried.

I will propose alliance with Germany, Russia, and Brazil with the Peoples Monarchy of Spain. If you guys respond with interest I will create a conference thread between the four of us.
Russia would definitely be interested in an alliance with Spain, and I would imagine Germany would be, too (if I may begin speaking for him from time to time).
Russia also hails the agreement between the Turks and Arabs as a major step towards lasting peace in the region.
Russia is watching but not commenting on developments in Italy. There's nothing pleasant we have to say about Vittorio Emannuele, and nothing so far to indicate that Umberto is likely to be any better, but nothing so far to indicate he won't be. So the Supreme Council will wait and see what, if anything, will happen at Paris.

As Hrstrovokia, I changed over the Year, and added the Greek News Thread.

I will propose alliance with Germany, Russia, and Brazil with the Peoples Monarchy of Spain. If you guys respond with interest I will create a conference thread between the four of us.

OOC: In principal we would agree so yeah a conference thread would be good. Also I would invite Mexico. He is veering left these days.

I would be glad too if invited

P.S Mexico today issued this staement to the US embassy in Mexico City

Mexico wishes to inform the United States that it has withdrawn its ultimatum against ecuador for the claim to the Galapagos Islands. Mexico wishes to stress that we do not want a war, this has been discussed by the cabinet this morning. MNS Conquistador has turned back and returned to harbour, the reservists have been demobilised and the Guardia Rurale stepped down.

Regards, Mexico

The Union would totally support that.

I gotta go to work for the day. Um. If Germany gets into a war with the US, I guess we'll support our Krazy Komrades. Invade Romania (freakin' ingrates), Albania (damn upstarts), and France (one of our few honorable foes), all that jazz. Support the revolutionary declarations of war that are sure to proceed from Mexico and Brazil and possibly China.
Otherwise, assume we're trying for a diplomatic solution (Jeez, and I was about to claim victory for Socialism that US Congress was raising the minimum wage and passing worker protection laws . . .). Anyway.

In light of recent events Mexico would be extremely interested in a socialist orientated alliance, preferably ASAP.

ooc
just remember what happened to Mexico the last time it fought a war with the United States....(chuckle)

ooc: my thoughts exactly, i need some friends (cowers)

ooc: my thoughts exactly, i need some friends (cowers)

ooc
Mexico, check the military thread

IC
The US Congress raises the base pay of officers and enlisted personnel in the United States military, and the Coast Guard is formerly established and given a larger budget. Thankfully the Coast Guard is not given the hopeless mission of chasing alchohol smugglers in this time line as Prohibition did not pass. Which means organized Crime has lost their big chance to get really rich too.

ooc: checked

I will propose alliance with Germany, Russia, and Brazil with the Peoples Monarchy of Spain. If you guys respond with interest I will create a conference thread between the four of us.

France objects very strongly to the proposed alliance, as it would leave France virtually surrounded by potentially hostile powers. There is talk in PArliament of withdrawing any and all French investment in Spain and of raising tariffs on all Spanish goods, as well as cutting off rubber shipments from Vietnam.

To the Leader's of Spain

France urges you in the strongest possible terms not to throw in with the communists. France would be forced to take economic action against you, which could include cutting off rubber shipments. Do not enter into an alliance with the Germans and Russians.

Alexander Milerand, Prime Minster

OOC: The Paris Conference was going to be an effort to solve the Albanian problem, which has since been solved. It is no longer going to happen.

OOC: Just one question. Can I attempt to try to marry off a relative of the Joseon Dynasty (Korea's Royal Family) to somebody from Siam's Royal Family in order to try and attain influence there?

Ok, GB I sent you plans. However... if people want peace, then I think we should talk. Perhaps tea in London?

Hmmmm...

Plans, eh?

Hmmmm...

Plans, eh?

Hey....I've got plans too.

Do your plans involve WWII? I hope not :p

Parthini']Do your plans involve WWII? I hope not :p

Nope. They involve-

OOC: Just one question. Can I attempt to try to marry off a relative of the Joseon Dynasty (Korea's Royal Family) to somebody from Siam's Royal Family in order to try and attain influence there?

Influence means that I eventually turn them into a protectorate....slowly.

Oh my!

This could become World War II.

However, I am yet unsure what kind of participation China will have in World War II (should it happen now because of the Communism and stuff). China does not want to aggravate or make an enemy out of France so soon after France sold Cambodia and Laos, as well as promising aid, training, and trade.

So this leaves China with two possible alternatives.

1. Siam
2. Dutch East Indies

By the way, do you guys have any recommendations or suggestions for Chinese brand of submarines? I'm not exactly sure what would be a reasonable 1920's sub, as what I could find was for WW 2 (1940's) and onwards for subs.

Guys, please can we not be so damn jumpy for war...most of your nations still bear the scars from WW1. Let cooler head think this out...please stop being so tigger happy...well not intill 1930...at the least..

Nope. They involve-



Influence means that I eventually turn them into a protectorate....slowly.

Heh. We'll be at odds then, as China has interests in Siam / Thailand. :p

Heh. We'll be at odds then, as China has interests in Siam / Thailand. :p

Which France may back now that they are on friendly terms with China. :D

Hmmmm...

Plans, eh?

he sent me plans as my role as war moderator, but I still need a lot more information from him

Turkey, your right about the possibility of war, however, the US didn't fight in the Great War and has very firm ideas about what it is going to do, and isn't going to back down.

Can I be the vatican ( if I can be please send The nomadic peoples of Syddhartha a telegram)

OoC
Alright, I just got back from work. It looks like WWII hasn't started, yet, which is good because it gives me the opportunity to revise my position.
Russia will not invade anybody. I would have made that clear originally if the crisis hadn't emerged fifteen minutes before I had to leave for the day which therefore didn't give me any time to really consider my response.

IC
Russia will defend German territory if the latter is attacked, but we cannot support an aggressive action in this circumstance. While we protest the gratutitous and insulting American decision to cease trading helium to Germany, we do not feel that this is a critical interest meeting the basic standards of a casus belli. Hydrogen is a superior gas for use in dirigibles in many respects anyway. In any event, as even the Supreme Council must admit, the German response seems to justify American mistrust.
We feel the Paris Conference should go forward. Even though the Albanian crisis has passed, it remains far too easy to resort to warfare, and for the safety of mankind, the Supreme Council feels that some security arrangements between the world's armed and hostile camps should be sought. If France will not host it, we may propose Petrograd as host city, and we would invite the United States, Great Britain, Germany, France, China, Japan, the Ottomans, Italy, Spain, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Albania, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Romania, and other representatives other countries as well.
The world has become too dangerous. For the sake of civilization, we hope this call for peace does not go unheeded.

Message from the Albanian Government

The Albanian Government would suggests that the confrence, if it is held, take place in Tirana. Albania was after all the nation which Russia threatened to destroy for no real reason, and we are not about to forget that!