NationStates Jolt Archive

If you want to be the Netherlands telegram Hrst *boring sarcastic voice*

hmmmmmm yes apologies in advance..... :) my bad....

S'ok. It's just that everyone forgets to read that part, and it gets us rather bitter. :p

Parthini']S'ok. It's just that everyone forgets to read that part, and it gets us rather bitter. :p

Hey, I posted my response to your German ambassador earlier today in my China thread.

Al Quaeda Peoples, I'm the chief moderator of this Earth project. Please let me know which nation you'd like to play as, and dig up some historical info for your chosen nation. When that's done, then start up a sample news RP thread of your nation, then I can decide on your membership in this project. :)

war moderator here... ok, a LOT of stuff is happening in the Great War, and I can only do so much so fast. So don't get ahead of me... and I will be out of town Friday and Saturday for about 24 - 30 hours again. So it is possible 1906 will last until Tuesday as far as the war goes..

I have the possibility of several naval battles and of course the major land campaigns right now. Mercifully, most of you can't launch a major offensive right now because you shot off all of your artillery ammunition already (this happened historically, its one reason why there weren't many major offensives in 1915 in the actual Great War, at least compared to 1916)

Would one of the mods give me a timeline until full production of either/both an ammo only producing factory line and a sumbarine/fishing boat naval dock.
I think the ammo making facilities will be set up completly in two years and the docks three (Commissioning of the first sub). Sound good?

big naval and land battle at Crete... major victory for the League

Denmark, takes a year to establish a munitions industry, which you can do at tech level 3 (and you are tech level 4)

cool Im India.... officially.

I knew it was the Pearl of the british empire untill 1947 despite british racial undertones...

I think their was some anti british sentiment in india at this time thanks mostly to Mohatma Ghandi..

I dont know much more so any help would be appreciated...

thanks.

Use Wikipedia for just general information. For more precise, like armies and navies, you'll have to google or ask GB :p

GB can you get on Chatzy?

Oh bloody hell, I lost a major Greek Island and I lose most of the my fleet, this is going to take me at least intill 1918 to get my fleet back to pre war levels. I am going to get payback for this!

heh...my fleet is barely a fleet in and of itself... *moans about spanish american war* hmm..and also if i lose dont expect any reparations as im planning on haveing a rebellion again soon...maybe even in the middle of the war....

GB Can you get on Chatzy again?

try to keep ooc stuff to a minimum if you can

new thread is here

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9467463#post9467463

and includes a short summary of the war so far

let the previous war thread die, and use it for background only

Thanks for the thread, GB. It should fix up a lot of stuff. :)

By the way, I'm posting China's offer to purchase Indochina from France in that thread if you don't mind. It has a direct bearing on the war, as France will get much needed money for its war machine, and able to re-deploy troops from Indochina back to France to defend aganist Germany and Russia.

Or they'll be stubborn and get bogged down in a second front :)

GB, you got some time for Chatzy? (http://www.chatzy.com/684093003041)

Hey, I was wondering if I could play as Belgium

Hey, I was wondering if I could play as Belgium

Only if you let me go thru yer land ;)

J/k

TG Hrstrovokia and ask him.

Parthini']Only if you let me go thru yer land ;)

J/k

TG Hrstrovokia and ask him.


Already did. Waiting on an answer right now.

Yay for following the rules! :fluffle:

Yay!

i think lachenberg is belgium but i havent seen him around lately...rodenka i swear if you lay a fingoer on the great war you will have what little might spain may have being forced down your throat! :P have fun

VP can you get on MSN?

:cool: Yeah! :D :fluffle: :) There is finally a Belgium player! France and Germany are pre-paring for a big war compared to the recent one in the east. So they may want to run your country of the map and call it good so that they can get a BIG upper hand on one another. I got Germany not to invade you unless you ask. I havn't got the French to...yet. Both don't wany Britian or American countries to go against one another by breaking a promise &/or neutrality.
A.KA Have fun!

I am not available til Sunday night (pacific time), so there will not be updates to the military or economic situation until Monday. Essentially the war is at a lull from mid September until December 1906 as everyone is recovering from the previous 9 months of fighting, and preparing for the next round.

The US, dissappointed in the failure of its peace overture, decides to try again next year after the Europeans batter themselves some more.

:cool: Yeah! :D :fluffle: :) There is finally a Belgium player! France and Germany are pre-paring for a big war compared to the recent one in the east. So they may want to run your country of the map and call it good so that they can get a BIG upper hand on one another. I got Germany not to invade you unless you ask. I havn't got the French to...yet. Both don't wany Britian or American countries to go against one another by breaking a promise &/or neutrality.
A.KA Have fun!


What would happen if I decied to join in on one side or the other, though? :D

Yeah that would be good, I have a loose alliance with Germany.

Germany could use the help in the West, it's true. I'll be there myself as soon as I can, but these damnable Austrians just don't die fast enough.

Other Business
As AdminMod, I want thank new applicants for their patience. You're confirmed in your requests, and I'll edit the Post soon. Verdant Archipelago must choose between Norway, Sweden, or Luxembourg (although, as a player--admittedly a conflict of interest--I'd rather see a Czechoslovakia or Serbia . . .).
I'll confirm you as Sweden unless I hear otherwise from you before I edit the Main Post.

Verdant Archipelago is confirmed as Sweden.

Rodenka, I issued a Warning to Lachenburg, and he responded that he was still interested and capable of playing, but would withdraw as Belgium if you were sure you could do a better job. There still remain many unclaimed countries, however. Even in Western Europe, there're the Netherlands (Euroslavia's claim is long derelict), Switzerland, and Norway, or the Basques if you want to play an independence movement.There are altogether too many NPC states in Eastern Europe that I, personally, would like to see with players (well, except for maybe Poland--that would cause me pain). Same goes for South America and Asia.
And, of course, people are always welcome to play African countries, though no-one really seems interested. Poor guys.

Because someone has already picked South Africa (Gold Mines Galore), Egypt (Only nice military) and the Ottomans (Semi-Decadent world power). So there is no real good choices. I looked into it and couldn't find anything to do with Africa except the Boer Rebellion issue and mostly the Zulus which are long gone. So anyhow who is belgium? Never quite got that....

Find all of your food and winter clothing at Denmark Exports (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9488491#post9488491)

hey dudes, ima not quite back from my 4 week vacation, i see France has been reassigned and thats cool, i didn't know a great deal about it anyway and it was far too much responsibility for me, instead i think i'd prefer to take a backseat in one of the nosebleed nations, i notice that Palestine has probationary involvement, i have done quite a bit of research on Palestine in this time and on the Arab Isreali conflict, so if thats cool then yeah, sign me for Palestine

hey dudes, ima not quite back from my 4 week vacation, i see France has been reassigned and thats cool, i didn't know a great deal about it anyway and it was far too much responsibility for me, instead i think i'd prefer to take a backseat in one of the nosebleed nations, i notice that Palestine has probationary involvement, i have done quite a bit of research on Palestine in this time and on the Arab Isreali conflict, so if thats cool then yeah, sign me for Palestine
Well Palestine is still part of the Ottoman Emprie and I am not going to let Palestine go. Plus the only way Isreal could from in this world, is that if a European power kicks the Ottomans out of that region and allow the Zoinist to move in mass numbers. Yet in my Ottoman Empire I am have limted who comes and goes in my empire. Meaning no mass Zoinist movement going to my lands.

So anyhow who is belgium? Never quite got that....

Me. :cool:

is Palestine not occupied by the Brits at this point

*checks frantically on Wikipedia*

Palestine was take by the British in WW1, by 1917 I belive. But in this timeline WW1 happen alot sooner and The Ottoman and Brits are allies not foes in this timeline. So I highly doubt they would march into Ottoman lands and take it.

anybody mind the Koreans supplying Guns and other stuff to the combatants?

Spooty-I would say it would be better if you rp as some South America or Asia, or heck a Africa nation.

Spooty-I would say it would be better if you rp as some South America or Asia, or heck a Africa nation.

oh, why?

dude, the influx of Jews into the province of Palestine at this point is at 11%, if that number increases it will have a posssible effect similar to that of real history, the Arabs will fight the Jewish immigrants and presto, WAR! If the Jews win then once more presto, INDEPENDENCE!

oh, why?
Just giving ideas, beside this is not going to be like the timeline of rl, so alot of things may be get change. So if you still want to rp as Palestine, I am guessing you may rp as a Zoinist faction or something. Its up to you really,but remember its not going to work out as in the rl timeline.

Just giving ideas, beside this is not going to be like the timeline of rl, so alot of things may be get change. So if you still want to rp as Palestine, I am guessing you may rp as a Zoinist faction or something. Its up to you really,but remember its not going to work out as in the rl timeline.

yeah thats the plan anyway, but for now i still have a week left on holiday so i'll see if events have moved towards a zionist revolt then.

dude, the influx of Jews into the province of Palestine at this point is at 11%, if that number increases it will have a posssible effect similar to that of real history, the Arabs will fight the Jewish immigrants and presto, WAR! If the Jews win then once more presto, INDEPENDENCE!
Well that depends if the Ottomans would allow the more Jewish immigrants in their lands, they have the right to deport anyone. Besides who says the Arabs will lose a war against the Jews. Nothing is for sure, remember that fact.

Well that depends if the Ottomans would allow the more Jewish immigrants in their lands, they have the right to deport anyone. Besides who says the Arabs will lose a war against the Jews. Nothing is for sure, remember that fact.

check it

dude, the influx of Jews into the province of Palestine at this point is at 11%, if that number increases it will have a posssible effect similar to that of real history, the Arabs will fight the Jewish immigrants and presto, WAR! If the Jews win then once more presto, INDEPENDENCE!

I said if, meaning i havn't jumped to any immediate conclusions and i know that it could go either way, also, the Jews could sneak into Palestine, illegal immigrant Stylee

Sorry for about ,didn't see the if in your post. This may make a interesting rp.

Hey, Hrstrovokia, I sent you a TG. I've decided to let Lachenburg keep Belguim. I'll be playing the Arabs.

concerning Palestine... its doubtful anyone is immigrating to Palestine at this point, as there is a war on, Jews living in the League nations can't get to Palestine, those living in the Coalition nations are probably being drafted, and those are pretty much the primary places Jews came from during the early days of Zionist settlement.

There are Jews there, but no where near the population that developed in our timeline at this point.

Concerning the possible Chinese /French conflict in Indochina.... China at this point only has about 300,000 troops equiped th modern standards with about 3 years to train the cadre of a modern army. They have no logistical support or the infrastructure to supply military conflict in some of the densest mountain jungle in the world (northern Vietnam and Laos north of the Red River valley). France has about 60,000 troops in garrison, and kept them even during the worst days of World War I and II in OTL, and has not indicated troops have been removed from that area. In addition, the possibility of Chinese invasion is the one thing that would bring the Indochinese nationalists to the side of the French. So it certainly won't be easy, and its a dangerous move for China to attempt. That said, its up to China if they want to attempt it, but it won't be a quick victory.

Coalition activities in the Pacific--- at this point, unless otherwise indicated, the French still have military and naval forces in the Pacific, and the Germans really don't. The Russians have forces in Northeast Asia, but nowhere else. So the French have swept the waters of East Asia of Coalition shipping. Which means no German deliveries of anything to China at this point.

More on the effects of the war tomorrow in the economic thread, the military thread and the Great War thread.....

concerning Palestine... its doubtful anyone is immigrating to Palestine at this point, as there is a war on, Jews living in the League nations can't get to Palestine, those living in the Coalition nations are probably being drafted, and those are pretty much the primary places Jews came from during the early days of Zionist settlement.

it is true that many of the Zionist's are being drafted, this does not stop those already IN palestine nor does it stop the efforts of the WZO who's base is situated in Switzerland, they will continue to find a land for the Jew's, interesting side note here, the WZO was actually not bothered with the location of the Jewish state, they would have preferred Israel but other proposed lands included Argentina and Kenya, the Kenya plan fell through and so i would still be open to negotiating Argentina

Changed over the year. Confirmed Rodenka as the Stateless Arabs (sorry Ottoman Khaif, I can't deny a legitimate request--though Russian troops may help you crush them) and ---Zeon--- as Switzerland.
I've TG'd Sanctaphrax, and given until Thursday to enforce his prior claim on the Zionist Movement. If he doesn't, then anything Spooty's done will be legitimate. Otherwise it's up him to decide whether or not any of it happened.

is there a timeline for the events that have passed? cos i keep getting lost, if there isn't then somone should make one, suggestion stylee

Over at the Foreign Possessions Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9136878) I have added a South Pacific map (see last post for details) and require people to list what South Pacific possessions they have and post them there so that I can add them to the list.

Thanks guys.

GB, I am very close allies with the Russians and there's no stopping trains. If there isn't a rail from Berlin to St. Petersburg, then I shall make one!

Spooty, remember that this is an alternate history and whatever happened after 1900 didn't happen unless someone said so. Plus I think it would be cool if the Jews took like Madagascar... from the French....

OOC:

I wanted to turn up the tension, ans see what happens. In our real timeline, China would be wimpy and kow-tow towards the French should an actual invasion of Indochina have taken place. However, in this alternate timeline, China has a new leadership and growing nationalism "Asia for Asians" mentality. They want Europeans out of Asia, with the exception of friends.

updates in the Great War and Military threads, and a partial update in the economics thread

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/member.php?u=328450

Okay.... A Zionest movement anywhere is a figment of whoever's imagination. Not to be to rude but the Zionest's left because of a couple reasons.....
1) Communism in Russia was defenitly anti-anything but communism
2) Begining German Nazi-ism in 1930
3) The fall of the Ottoman Empire pretty much made alot of that country up for grabs, think California election for land.
4) That, with the other reasons make it very unbelivable that such an influx of Zionests should make the percentage of population over 50% Zionests.

dude, in Palestine currently 11% of the population is Jewish, according to Wikipedia, more are fleeing anti-semetism in Russia and France, the ZO or the WZO (settup in 1897) is looking to find lands for the Jews wherever possible, wheras the fictional ZLF are just looking to lift the ban on further Zionist immigrants.

just one question, are flamethrowers able to be produced yet? I would like to import some from any country that might beable to make them, i was thinking from Britain, but i think Germany was the first nation to use them...

Not getting into it anymore, about the flamethrowers, I wouldn't think that Britian would make it first this time around, probably germany since they are fighting in that kind of pro-anti trench weapons. Everybody else will probably build airplanes ot helecoptors first to get better reconnisince in the rugged places.

Hello there i'm kinda interested in joining, I was wondering if Ireland was an open spot or there are any others i can fill?

Well there is....

Netherlands
Finland (Russia never annexed it)
Norway (Or Sweden forgot which one was taken)
Canada
Mexico
Cambodia
India
and of course Portugual

Well there is....

Netherlands
Finland (Russia never annexed it)
Norway (Or Sweden forgot which one was taken)
Canada
Mexico
Cambodia
India
and of course Portugual

actually available are the Netherlands, Norway, Mexico (although have fun with the coming civil war), Siam, Ethopia and Liberia (only independent countries in Africa), most of South and Central America except for Colombia and Chile.

All other areas are either taken, or part of an area that is taken or a colonial possession. You can play a colonial possession if you want,although the owner can crush you if you get annoying and it will generally be allowed.


Moorington, Finland is part of the Russian empire in 1900 - 1917 historically, Cambodia is essentially part of French Indochina

Okay okay okay.. I'd like to redo my request. And Request Netherlands :D

Oh cool, I didn't know about Finland, that would be fun to play as.... But I have to much time spent in Denmark.

Ahem. READ THE FIRST POST. ANY TERRITORIAL REQUESTS IN-THREAD WILL BE IGNORED.

With the controversy concerning Zionism and the time frame, I have no knowledge of what percentage of Palestine is Zionist at this point. However, prominent Jews have been arguing at least from ca. 1860 for the establishment of a Jewish state somewhere. Almost all of these called for the state to be in Palestine, and from around 1880 or so a small but steady stream of Jewish immigrants have started comming in. The oppression in Europe is still there for the Jews, particularly in Eastern Europe, and a player as the Zionist movement could call upon those Jews. Heck, the Dreyfus Affair shocked many Jews in a place they though was enlightened.

There are still many places where the Jews can have a homeland. Argentina, I think, was seriously considered at one point. In 1905 the British government set up an area for Jews (in Kenya, I believe) to have a homeland. The World Zionist Organisation decided later to move to Palestine. From 1882-1914, around 75,000 Jews moved to Palestine. This number is highly dependent upon outbreaks of anti-semitism in Europe. With such small numbers at this point, it is likely that the Jews would have to settle for a microscopic point of Palestine at the moment. If Poland is created in WWI (which is still raging now), the Poles (if there is no player) could act historically and have anti-semitism.

There are still many places where the Jews can have a homeland. Argentina, I think, was seriously considered at one point. In 1905 the British government set up an area for Jews (in Kenya, I believe) to have a homeland. The World Zionist Organisation decided later to move to Palestine. From 1882-1914, around 75,000 Jews moved to Palestine. This number is highly dependent upon outbreaks of anti-semitism in Europe. With such small numbers at this point, it is likely that the Jews would have to settle for a microscopic point of Palestine at the moment. If Poland is created in WWI (which is still raging now), the Poles (if there is no player) could act historically and have anti-semitism.

it is true that many of the Zionist's are being drafted, this does not stop those already IN palestine nor does it stop the efforts of the WZO who's base is situated in Switzerland, they will continue to find a land for the Jew's, interesting side note here, the WZO was actually not bothered with the location of the Jewish state, they would have preferred Israel but other proposed lands included Argentina and Kenya, the Kenya plan fell through and so i would still be open to negotiating Argentina

I did a LOT of research

wow. maybe cuba such a good idea since i have along time till im in internatiol spot light.* sigh* Must think of something.

I really don't think there are alot of positions left in Europe (Netherlands got taken right?) You could though do a rasonably easy insurrection against the russians in Finland and invent Molotoive Cocktails, they where made by the finns defending the city of Molotoive.

I really don't think there are alot of positions left in Europe (Netherlands got taken right?) You could though do a rasonably easy insurrection against the russians in Finland and invent Molotoive Cocktails, they where made by the finns defending the city of Molotoive.
A Finnish insurrection is extremely unlikely. Despite some rocky moments earlier in Nikolai's reign, the Finns actually have a pretty sweet deal with Russia, especially since the adoption of the Basic Law.
And there are plenty of open slots in Europe. Haven't you seen all those "NPC" states in the Main Post?
Do try to pay attention. And stop trying to get people to rebel against me.
And there is no city I know of named "Molotoive." Molotov Cocktails were named after the Bolshevik General Molotov (Russian for "Hammer") during World War II (though it's true they were invented by Finns, who were enemies of the Soviets at that time).

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=431809

Japanese Dilplomatic thread

Yeah, and when did Russia and I become the "Chief Agressors?" I mean, come on. I've pulled out of Venezuela and cancelled all debts, I am avenging German lives after Italy sunk one of my ships and tried to take CONSTANTINOPLE from the Turks! I didn't even attack France. They attacked me! No Ultimatum either. I gave Austria one.

So what if I'm whining. I'm German and if you don't like it, I'll poison gas your Capital.

OOC:

I've been thinking of what to do next with China.

Right now, 1/4 of my Army is training off the Indochinese border, with two goals in mind. First, to gain much needed training and "experience". Second, make the French more jittery and possibly have them become the aggressors themselves by declaring war aganist China. My Emperor is playing a dangerous game of diplomacy, trying to draw Japan and possibly the USA aganist the French via the defense pact.

However, I'm not actually planning on invading Indochina until I get my military outfitted with European-quality weapons, and have equal experience levels in training as the Europeans.

Besides, I want to milk the tension in Asia for all its worth, as it makes for great "on-the-edge-of-your-seat" RP.

Please share your thoughts and feedback.

I'm a little dismayed at being called an "aggressor" myself. I mean, the Austrians were invading one little Slavic country after another, and I finally tell them to back off in the name of decency, and they refuse in the name of greed, and call in the Italians and Spanish.
Aggressor my ass.
And I know I'm whining too. I'm Russian and if you don't like I'll slaughter your strong men and pack the rest off to slave labor camps in Siberia.

And I know I'm whining too. I'm Russian and if you don't like I'll slaughter your strong men and pack the rest off to slave labor camps in Siberia.

you forgot to Rape the women

Because we have good propoganda people? :D

Besides, you're the one that just shelled two of my cities and killed several thousand civilians.

See what happens whe you whine, you forget the most important part!

hey whilst i'm here i might aswell whine,

Why do I have to wait until the end of the war before i can even touch my nation, in that time god knows what could happen, hey it may even turn out for the better, I may be able to take on Israel under non-Ottoman rule, but back onto whining, yeah, whining, I know i'm whining but i'm Israel and if you don't like it i'll come and i'll wipe out your entire military in under 6 days

truthfully, shelling French cities in sight of the British population might backfire on Germany... they will actually start admiring the plucky French navy who took on the combined fleets of two nations and held them off. The British are like that after all.

From an objective perspective, the Anglo Saxon nations probably see it as this (remember this was a different less enlightened era)

1. Austria is a bully, but who cares, the Balkans are full of wogs
2. Russia launches an all out invasion at Austria, which isn't doing anything the Russians haven't been doing elsewhere.... historically the British don't like the Russians much, and the Americans have actually heard of Vienna and the rich culture, while few are very sure of much about Russia except that it has Siberia in it and they slaughtered a bunch of Lithunian wogs a couple of years ago.
3. Italy accidently sinks a German ship. Inept, but they are southern Europeans and everyone knows they are inept. So the Gerrmans declaring war when they should have expected something like that to happen seems like the Kaiser is being a bully.
4. The Kaiser has been blustering for years, and just a year ago invaded Morocco and then left without good reason. The Czar is a bully who just a few years ago wiped out a bunch of Lithunians, and many of the survivors emigrated to the US.
5. The Emperor of Austria Hungary was a harmless old man who was murdered and his poor son is trying to do the best he can.
6. The French were simply helping the endangered Austrians and trying to get back territory that was stripped from them in 1870, and everyone can understand revenge.

not really fair, but that would probably be the average man on the streets look at things in the English Speaking countries...

that and the fact is the Europeans are slaughtering each other... lets avoid that, it doesn't seem to be accomplishing much.

truthfully, shelling French cities in sight of the British population might backfire on Germany... they will actually start admiring the plucky French navy who took on the combined fleets of two nations and held them off. The British are like that after are.

Huzzah for the plucky French! And god bless Admiral what's-his-name. He saved France's ports. In fact, I think I'll have a naval award named after him...The Labeyrere Cross. Awarded for actions above and beyond the call of duty or extreme bravery in the face of the enemy/peril.

OOC:

I've been thinking of what to do next with China.

Right now, 1/4 of my Army is training off the Indochinese border, with two goals in mind. First, to gain much needed training and "experience". Second, make the French more jittery and possibly have them become the aggressors themselves by declaring war aganist China. My Emperor is playing a dangerous game of diplomacy, trying to draw Japan and possibly the USA aganist the French via the defense pact.

However, I'm not actually planning on invading Indochina until I get my military outfitted with European-quality weapons, and have equal experience levels in training as the Europeans.

Besides, I want to milk the tension in Asia for all its worth, as it makes for great "on-the-edge-of-your-seat" RP.

Please share your thoughts and feedback.
Japan has been buying warships from the United States and building up their military generally. I don't think they're planning on being on your side, and they already defeated China once ten years ago. China's stronger now, it's true, but not strong enough.
I'd be careful, and cultivate allies who can actually help you (like maybe Britain). Russia and Germany would both be happy to help, as you know, but we've all got our hands full at the moment, and the United States seems pretty suspicious of Chinese intentions.

Snip.
Eloquently put.

Japan has been buying warships from the United States and building up their military generally. I don't think they're planning on being on your side, and they already defeated China once ten years ago. China's stronger now, it's true, but not strong enough.
I'd be careful, and cultivate allies who can actually help you (like maybe Britain). Russia and Germany would both be happy to help, as you know, but we've all got our hands full at the moment, and the United States seems pretty suspicious of Chinese intentions.

Hmm.

I had actually planned this for a bit now, trying to show the world that China means business and that it is no longer anyone's lap-dog, after the whole Opium Wars and the Boxer Rebellion stuff. I'm trying to show that China is determined to achieve its goals, and is not afraid to do so.

I'm quite welcoming of any suggestions how to preserve this attitude, without actually engaging in a war (at least until 1910, I think). :)

actually, the Japanese doesn't really need to buy ships from the United States and the US Navy isn't really building anybody else any ships at the moment, although it occasionally sells off its older ones

Actually, the US isn't paying a whole lot of attention to China, Japan or Asia in general except in trade. After all, at this point, the British, Australians and Americans own every single island group in the Pacific and the only other possessions are the Netherlands East Indies, Portuguese Timor, French New Caledonia, Japanese Formosa, and various left over bits in China, plus of course the Japanese and Russians and Koreans. So the US feels pretty safe about the Pacific at the moment. Its the Atlantic and that nasty war on the other side of it that concerns the US, now that the Monroe Doctrine and Pan American Treaty are pretty solid.

the US Navy isn't really building anybody else any ships at the moment




Dont forget mine.

VP, do you have MSN?

vhayek18@hotmail.com

I'd like to talk.

Dont forget mine.

VP, do you have MSN?

vhayek18@hotmail.com

I'd like to talk.

true, I am building some ships for Australia and Colombia, but no new orders are being taken at the moment.

Dont forget mine.

VP, do you have MSN?

vhayek18@hotmail.com

I'd like to talk.
I do. It's tabgach@hotmail.com
I detest instant messaging as a general rule, and so I'm almost never on, but I'll try to make some time tomorrow.
And thanks, by the way, for your support. Aussie assistance has been invaluable.

actually, the Japanese doesn't really need to buy ships from the United States and the US Navy isn't really building anybody else any ships at the moment, although it occasionally sells off its older ones



I don't NEED to but I'd Like to, buy ships to increase the size of my navy and quicken modernization.

I am sorry that I havn't been on but my school just started on thrusday and friday so I havn't had alot of time on NS. Also I was just saying that it would be fun to through some Molotove Cocktails around, didn't mean to statrt some kind of real insurrection by a player in Finland. Also about the whole gassing buisness, what countries (Country) has chemical weapons.

tag

OOC: Hi everyone, I'm the new Brazil :)

What percent of Palestine is Jewish? I know its pretty small but does anybody know the number?

11%

Washington Treaty thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9529208#post9529208

I have Chemical weaps. I couldv'e used them, but I'M A NICE GUY :mad:

i posted the proposed division of austria hungary which can be negotiated further but i belive this is very generous

Yeah, I believe it's generous, too. To the Austrians.

Ell that is nice even though I never got to sell anything my people are probably happy at the decrease in price of food.

Yeah, I believe it's generous, too. To the Austrians.

I think that's what he is trying to do.

ooc: hi everyone iv just taken over playing mexico :)

news thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440757

tag2

I think that's what he is trying to do.
Touché, monsieur!

Have put up a refined version of a new Geneva convention here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9538975) for all those nations who wish to sign it to become protected by it's articles on war and international law.

Changed over the Year, added a couple new players (well, just Mexico, and changed Independent Macedonia to "Yugoslavia" and Rodenka to "Palestine," and added a question mark here and there).
I also added a War Policy.

An offer for ex-League nations (especially Austria!). (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9539328&postcount=47)

I'd like to summarize the current situation in China, and I'd like feedback on it.

1. China has split its Army into four parts. The North Army, West Army, East Army, and South Army.

2. These four Armys are in the process of training, as the Chinese leadership desperately wants to have their soldiers reach equal training as European militaries.

3. The South Army is training near Indochina, but haven't actually done anything towards Indochina except curses and the like.

4. China continues to build as many factories, new railroad track, roads, etc. as possible. It has finished several weapons factories so that it doesn't have to rely on foreign supplies as much (especially ammunition).

5. China is making inquires into Henry Ford's automobile, Wright Brothers plane, and Nikolai Tesla's electricity theories as China is interested in those modernized technologies. After all, China sees any potential technology (especially those seemingly dismissed by Westerners) as a gold mine of opporunity. China will take anything, no matter how "crackpot" or "insane" to reach equal levels as the Europeans so that China won't be "walked over" ever again, like it was during the Opium Wars and the RL Boxer Rebellion.


Feedback? Ideas? Suggestions?

Sorta resembles Korea's program, but we still need electricity.

Nikolai Tesla's

*Lone soldier walks up to seemingly bland tower*

*BZZZT KZAP BOOM!*

YAY for Nikolai Tesla!!

The Mexican Civil War has begun!

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9540805#post9540805

I would like to talk about Argentina, the nation is currently NPC which is a problem for the WZO, who where recently told that both Zion and Madagascar would be out of the question, naturally the WZO would begin to negotiate for Argentina, always on the top of Herzl's list as being "one of the most fertile lands" the WZO way to gain this land would be through negotiation with the ruler of Argentina, there is no such leader as they are NPC so, how do i tackle this problem?

I would like to talk about Argentina, the nation is currently NPC which is a problem for the WZO, who where recently told that both Zion and Madagascar would be out of the question, naturally the WZO would begin to negotiate for Argentina, always on the top of Herzl's list as being "one of the most fertile lands" the WZO way to gain this land would be through negotiation with the ruler of Argentina, there is no such leader as they are NPC so, how do i tackle this problem?



Yeah ummm, no, i wouldn't support this.

Argentina is a Developing nation that currently is an allie of Great Britain. They have their own modern army and are working on a navy(well when Manarth left they were) and He is currently trying to come back.

oh ok, i'm just going on all the information i've got from Wiki.

oh ok, i'm just going on all the information i've got from Wiki.


but my opinion doesn't matter anyway, this is for a mod to decide.

important events 1908 (historical)
Tunguska Blast in Siberia (a slight alteration in course and that could easily have been a city wiped out)

Model T Ford enters production

(historical but possibly altered here)
First Zionist colony in Palestine
Young Turks revolt, overthrow last Ottomans

Oil found in Persia at Abadan

US founds the FBI (not called that yet)
Its an Olympic Year, and Roosevelt is going to easily be reelected President of the US

Robert Peary begins trip to North Pole

Farman starts building aircraft in France, makes a trip of a mile
Wright Brothers carry their first passenger, and later in the year, the first passenger fatality occurs, in spite of that, US Army starts buying flying machines
A.V. Roe starts flying in Britian

Hopefully the Treaty of Washington will be signed and Roosevelt will earn a Nobel Peace Prize (he did historically for bringing Russia and Japan to terms)

incidently, the economics thread showing current economic conditions has been updated
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9540907&postcount=119

some of you may not be happy

OOC:

Still no reply, feedback, or suggestions to my idea / plan for China in the next few E20 years? Also, I posted my latest communications to England and the USA.

I'm trying to do three things at once.

1. Continue industrialization and gaining the latest technologies like Model T and the Wright Brothers "Flying Contrapation"

2. Continue training my Chinese Army to Westerner standards and "elite-ness" My invasion of Indochina has been called off but my forces (South Army) are still there to serve as a defensive force should the French decide to invade.

3. Improve international relations with the following countries- Russia, Japan, Korea, USA, Britain, Germany, and Italy.

With permission from Sharina I've returned after a 4 week vacation without internet.

I would like to talk about Argentina, the nation is currently NPC which is a problem for the WZO, who where recently told that both Zion and Madagascar would be out of the question, naturally the WZO would begin to negotiate for Argentina, always on the top of Herzl's list as being "one of the most fertile lands" the WZO way to gain this land would be through negotiation with the ruler of Argentina, there is no such leader as they are NPC so, how do i tackle this problem?

IM me about this. You might not get your own soverign nation, but we might be able to work something out.

Everyone else, please give me a few days to get caught up. If you think something requires my attention, TG me.

OOC:

Still no reply, feedback, or suggestions to my idea / plan for China in the next few E20 years? Also, I posted my latest communications to England and the USA.

I'm trying to do three things at once.

1. Continue industrialization and gaining the latest technologies like Model T and the Wright Brothers "Flying Contrapation"

2. Continue training my Chinese Army to Westerner standards and "elite-ness" My invasion of Indochina has been called off but my forces (South Army) are still there to serve as a defensive force should the French decide to invade.

3. Improve international relations with the following countries- Russia, Japan, Korea, USA, Britain, Germany, and Italy.


OOC, I am factoring in your progress economically, and you should have noticed improvement. IC wise, the US hasn't been paying much official attention, being more concerned with Europe.

With permission from Sharina I've returned after a 4 week vacation without internet. .

too bad for the vacation, you missed the Pan American Treaty and the entirety of the Great War (World War I perhaps, we will see)

Pan American conference occured in 1904-05

Pan American Conference

The US takes the following actions before the conference:

1. Legislation is introduced that would sharply increase tariffs on German steel, coal and finished goods (double them). This makes both the Republicans (the industrial leaders) and the Democrats (who are starting to recruit in labor) very happy. It will probably annoy the Germans, which also makes a lot of Americans happy. Since the primary American goods shipped to Germany are foodstuffs (wheat, beef), and there are other markets, the impact on the US is expected to be minimal.

Tariffs on Chilean and Colombian goods are removed entirely, which benefits Chilean copper miners, and Colombian coffee growers, and should help them increase exports and reduce their overseas debt sooner.

All legislation has a 10 year sunset provesion.

2. The US has begun a massive military buildup (see previous posts in the Military Thread)

3. The US has firm military alliances with both Colombia and Chile.

Proposals made at the start of the Conference by the US.
1. The Chagos Doctrine of no debt collection by force be accepted as policy by the governments of North and South America, and that all effort be made to present a unified front to the world and get that made as an accepted part of international law.
2. That the German occupation of Venezuela is in violation of the Monroe Doctrine, and that any government instituted by Germany not be recognized by any government in the Americas.
3. That all tariffs be halved or even eliminated between the nations of the Western Hemisphere.
4. That the election results in Puerto Rico be accepted as valid by the nations of the Western Hemisphere.
5. The United States will not intervene in the internal affairs of the nations of the Western Hemisphere except at the request of the legal government of that nation, and only if approval exists amongst the majority of the nations of the Americas.
6. That a treaty codifying these points be signed and called the Pan American Treaty.
7. That all nations who approve the Pan American Treaty also agree to come to the mutual defense of one another should a nation from outside the Western Hemisphere intervene, invade or use military force without the agreement of the majority of the treaty signatories.
8. The Great Britain, which has significant holdings in the Western Hemisphere, and as well as the Netherlands and France be included in the treaty should they sign it, although the defense responsibilities of the Pan American treaty signatories should only extend to the current holdings of those nations, and that any territory of theirs that gains its independence should be admitted into the Treaty automatically upon request.
9. That all pressure be placed on Germany to withdraw from Venezuela within 5 years.

basically, Central America and the Caribbean nations, Colombia, Chile, Brazil, the French and the British and Canadians (plus the US) ratified the treaty at the time or since then. The Germans pulled out of Venezuela in 1906

The Western Hemisphere and the British Empire also stayed out of the Great War... fought between the Coalition (Russia, Rumania, Germany, Bulgaria, Serbia, Macedonia, Greece, Turkey) vs the League (Austria Hungary, France, Italy, Spain)

check this thread for the peace conference and the other thread for the war

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9543623&highlight=galveston#post9543623

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9537642&highlight=galveston#post9537642

Hey, would you consider a new player trying the Irish Independence movement ? I dont think Ireland is taken.

I have an important question for the Economy guys.

With the end of the Great War, the world is in a recession with the exception of several nations.

If I contact more Europeans and other recession nations with offers to invest in Chinese infrastructure and industrialization, will it help the world re-emerge from recession and help China catch up in the meanwhile? Surely 467 million consumers, approximately 1/3 or 1/4 of the whole world's population, would be a huge market full of "demand" for the European "supplies".

Does this make any sense? If I go ahead with this, what results should I expect?

I have an important question for the Economy guys.

With the end of the Great War, the world is in a recession with the exception of several nations.

If I contact more Europeans and other recession nations with offers to invest in Chinese infrastructure and industrialization, will it help the world re-emerge from recession and help China catch up in the meanwhile? Surely 467 million consumers, approximately 1/3 or 1/4 of the whole world's population, would be a huge market full of "demand" for the European "supplies".

Does this make any sense? If I go ahead with this, what results should I expect?

likely it will help

likely it will help

Thanks. So far I have contacted the following...

1. Germany
2. Britain
3. USA

Who has contacted me...

1. Japan (for industrialization support)
2. Mongolia (for Independence)
3. Korea (for an alliance, already finished negoiations)

So I need to gain the support of the Italians, Swedes, and the Russians to help further industrialize China and end the Global Recession?

Right now China is asking the following...

1. Germany = mainly military equipment and training. Also ask for aid in education and construction of universities.

2. Britain = factory machinery and engineering, in addition to shipbuilding expertise.

3. USA = Model T (automobile tech), the Wrights Brother "airplane", and possibly a lot more trading.

I'm not sure what else I should be asking of whom? I believe I have had a deal with the Italians about a shipyard or two? I want to take stock of who's dealing in what, and what deals China can reach so that I'll be able to update my China's factbook and timeline (fill out 1905 through 1908).

Don't forget Australia China.

And Colombia.

Would you know if London is hosting the Olympics or does Rome still host at this point?... They are scheduled to begin in June or July if possible.

They were originally scheduled for Rome but were switched to London after April 7th due to Vesuvius erupting. So being late on a Tuesday=late April so switched to London by now. I am presuming eruptions etc. still occur as we have no control over them.

Would you know if London is hosting the Olympics or does Rome still host at this point?... They are scheduled to begin in June or July if possible.

I am guessing that since until November 1907 most of Europe was at war, including Italy, that would have a lot more to due with it, so London Olympics is logical

To China (and the world):

Italy right now sells merchant ships, shipyards, warships, and other various weapons of war. With a rise in experienced soldiers, Italy is also willing to set up military training facilities in other nations, for a profit, of course. I think Italy at this point still has lots of old-fashioned craftsmen, making fine (but more expensive) goods. Italy may also be in the automobile industry, and will certainly be there by 1922. I'm not sure, and will do some more research.

With the experiences of war, the Cei-Rigotti 1896 (or whatever year they were first made) assault rifles have been replaced by the Model 1907, an improved version that has greater reliability and doesn't jam as often.

ok, a few points...

First, the mods are discussing moving things up to 1920 once the final details of the immediate postwar period are settled... shooting for monday, and then a few days for people to post plans, and for us to figure out what will happen based on those plans and other events.

second, people are asking about tanks, and planes and submachineguns and other instruments of war that show up during the historical First World War. After considering it carefully, here is my view. The Great War (historical) was a major stimulus to creating those things, it last a year longer than ours did, and occured nearly a decade later. So no tanks until we have another big war, and only if one of the big industrial nations gets in a big war with another industrial nation.

Aircraft are another story... stick with the historical development. When they show up according to history, you can start buying or building them depending on whether or not your nation produces aircraft historically. I am going to assume Fokker moves to Germany though for elegance.

Submachineguns will show up on the historical timeline as they did historically.

Armored cars are ok though, they show up when they did historically as they have excellent possibilities for Colonial duties. Same with armed aircraft (carrying bombs), they too will show up. Which basically means practically military aircraft beginning 1915, armored cars 1913, and submachineguns vary.

You must be tech level 5 to build any of those things, and you must have an economy that is at least Strong. Simply because weaker economies can't afford to spend money on possibilites at the moment, they have to concentrate on the necessities.

Warships... are EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE to not only build, but to operate and maintain. So a naval building moratorium on capital ships unless your economy is a least Strong, as the government has more pressing issues at the moment. A capital ship is a predreadnought battleship, coast defense battleship, dreadnought, battle cruiser, or armored cruiser.

Finally, upper limits need to be examined on your fleets. I know that fleets are cool. However, you are not allowed to build a fleet that is bigger than the actual peacetime fleet your nation had in historical 1914 unless you are the United States or Britian (they actually had fewer ships than they could support).

If your fleet is smaller than that, and your economy is at least Strong, feel free to build up to that level if you must. Remember you must be tech level 4 to build destroyers, torpedo boats, gunboats, protected cruisers, armored cruisers, coastal defense submarines, or predreadnought battleships (including coast defense battleships)

and you have tech level 5 to build dreadnoughts, battle cruisers, light cruisers, or heavy cruisers or ocean going submarines.

OOC:

I'd like to set up a list of what needs to be resolved before we decide on a "time-warp" to 1920.

Please list all ongoing conferences, diplomacy, trading, deals, etc. that we should conclude.

well the WZO is attempting to purchase lands in Argentina and if that plan falls through they're gonna try a crack at Libya

I have a Civil War scheduled to start around 1910. Assuming that no foreign powers intervene, or that if they do they'll do so on behalf of the Reds (the Whites will basically be Nazis, and only other Nazis could possibly support what they're going to do), it'll probably be wrapped up by 1912 (the RL Russian Civil War only lasted three years, because the Whites were so hated), at which point the Socialist government will probably seek integration into the German Eurasian economic system, provided they (the Germans, not the Reds) can concede things like workers' rights and stuff. I wouldn't think that'd be too much to expect, given that the German Social Democratic Party is still the largest and oldest in Europe, if the least radical. That's the big thing, anyway.

By 1920, the Ottoman Empire would have recover competely from the Great War, so a number of five years plans would have been done by 1920. Just greatly building up the Ottoman Empire. The Young Turk government would have done major reforms to the system and have rebuild most of the Ottoman Army and navy, the rail network would have greatly expanded by time period. The Education system would have teach rought 80 percent of the people to read and write in Ottoman Turkish, Persian and Arabic. Hopfully by that time the Ottomans would be a 4.2 tech nation, do to the five year plans and speeding up the debt payment plans to Britian.

Hello!

I’ve contacted Hrstrovokia about applying, and I’d like to play as the Grand Duchy of Burgundy. I have few questions about it: is the Alsace-Lorraine that the Washington Treaty refers to the RL state that Germany had, or the two modern provinces of today? I suppose the former (If so, I have populations for the historic state).

And was Luxembourg neutral during “our Great War”? I’m trying to figure out what power Burgundy will hold. And I suppose the current Luxembourgese will continue as the Royal Family?

Anyway, thank you all,

1920 is way to far, maybe 1915.

I recently enacted voteing rights and allowed for a Prime Minister which will rule by the King as a sort of King by the people. By 1920 I would expect that a few economic reforms and such would have happened and slwoly but surely more and more progressive laws would be passed. You could expect the country to be one of the leading liberal nations excludeing a possible socialist Russia and a maybe more liberal america. The current rulers would still be in place and Alfonso would have been married to his RL wife(negotiations are under way) and prolly have all of his children if not most. My army would have decreased to about 150,000 standing and 350,000 reserves while attempting to always stay along with the more powerful nations in terms of tech. besides that I would say for the most part that time period would just be flying by the seat of my pants as I have done for tha past 6 years as Spain.

EDIT: I will also not rejoin the Mediterranean League once the pact expires.

Basically France is going to be trying to pay off it's debt and improving the economy, while strengthing ties with Italy, the U.K., and the U.S.A. Nothing really that major, except for improving conditions in Indochina for the natives and helping Palestine industrialize, train their military, and beome more powerful. I'm also selling some isalnds to the Australians...You'd have to ask him for the specifics. I'm also signing a mutual defense treaty with the U.S. some time after the Washington Conference cuncludes. You'll have to ask Galveston for more info.

Myself and Italy are breaking down trade barriers to allow for a lot of free trade to go back and forth.

The military will undergo massive re-organizing, incorporating lessons learned during the war, such as the use of fire and movement tactics, steel helmets, and greandes. The navy is going to try and be moderatly powerful and I hope to be the first nation with a good airforce.

That's about it.

Hello!

I’ve contacted Hrstrovokia about applying, and I’d like to play as the Grand Duchy of Burgundy. I have few questions about it: is the Alsace-Lorraine that the Washington Treaty refers to the RL state that Germany had, or the two modern provinces of today? I suppose the former (If so, I have populations for the historic state).

And was Luxembourg neutral during “our Great War”? I’m trying to figure out what power Burgundy will hold. And I suppose the current Luxembourgese will continue as the Royal Family?

Anyway, thank you all,

Alsace Lorraine, as in the 2 proviences, and Luxembourg was indeed neutral during the Great War... Alsace Lorraine is a bit beat up, but not too bad

I have posted some of the things that will happen with China in the economic thread- I have the links to particular trade deal posts and such in there.

I'm still waiting for Russians, Japanese, the USA, and possibly Colombia and Australia to offer trade deals, investments, etc. for China before we go into the "time-warp".

The US isn't going to offer any special trade deals, other than what has already been agreed too, although tariffs are reduced substantially for specific Chinese goods like silk, tea, misc art etc and US producers will attempt to expand their exports to China.

The US isn't going to offer any special trade deals, other than what has already been agreed too, although tariffs are reduced substantially for specific Chinese goods like silk, tea, misc art etc and US producers will attempt to expand their exports to China.

That works.

China is interested in automobile technology, and is prepared to pay top dollar to Henry Ford for it. The same goes for the Wright Brothers.

That aside, I'm not sure where Nikolai Tesla is living right now in 1908- is he living in the USA? If so, I think I could entince him to come live in China as he's considered a crackpot in the USA.

That works.

China is interested in automobile technology, and is prepared to pay top dollar to Henry Ford for it. The same goes for the Wright Brothers.

That aside, I'm not sure where Nikolai Tesla is living right now in 1908- is he living in the USA? If so, I think I could entince him to come live in China as he's considered a crackpot in the USA.

actually he is coming up with alternating current at the moment and is about to get thoroughly vindicated

actually he is coming up with alternating current at the moment and is about to get thoroughly vindicated

I do recall that Nikolai Tesla was eventually shunned as a crackpot with several theories and failed experiments.

The reason I'm looking to have Nikloai Tesla come to China is so that he can help China start the process of electrification of its cities and such. Electric lamps, signs, trolleys, etc.

actually he is coming up with alternating current at the moment and is about to get thoroughly vindicated
Yeah, the crackpot part comes later.

Yeah, the crackpot part comes later.

Okay.

Once Tesla is considered a crackpot by the USA, then I'd like to have China invite Tesla to work on electricty stuff in China and help it electrifiy its cities and design electric power plants and the like.

Mexicos Civil war has just taken a major turning point, up till now the rebels have held the initiative. But with the execution of Pancho Villa (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440976) the revolution in the north is going to fizzle out. However the southern farmers are still undefeated, and have plans to form their own country (Am i allowed to do this?) and split from Mexico.

By 1920 Glorious Leader will be dead. He will have left in place a government along the lines of a communist politburo, but the country is still fairly pro-business as it hopes to attract foreign investment. Our land forces will be trained to Western standard and will be equipped with modern Western weaponry thanks to a contract with France and Germany. A special division of elite jungle and mountain warfare operatives also trained in insurgency and counter insurgency will be created thanks to the training of them by Tenth and Eleventh South African Kommando. The division will total around 45,000 combat troops and will be the cream of the army. The navy will still be in a shoddy state, only just able to defend its own waters and its doubtful whether anyone in the country has ever heard of an aeroplane. However, our country will probably be the first in South America to have a fully trained and equipped Westernised army. Probably totalling around 250,000 regulars and 375,000 reserves. Brazil is willing to invest in zeppelins both for military recon and commercial flights and is hugely encouraging immigration to settle vast areas of so far unpopulated land. Expditions will plough into the Amazon to make contact with lost tribes but will respect their wishes to privacy. Certain areas of the Amazon will be deforested as neccessary but not excessively as it is an essential part of our national idendity. Thats about all I can think of :)

Mexicos Civil war has just taken a major turning point, up till now the rebels have held the initiative. But with the execution of Pancho Villa (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440976) the revolution in the north is going to fizzle out. However the southern farmers are still undefeated, and have plans to form their own country (Am i allowed to do this?) and split from Mexico.

Well if you are, Brazil would doubtless support the new country. It is unwilling to aid the rebellion because of the Pan-American treaty but it would support the creation of a new country and would back it to the hilt.

Hello!

I’ve contacted Hrstrovokia about applying, and I’d like to play as the Grand Duchy of Burgundy. I have few questions about it: is the Alsace-Lorraine that the Washington Treaty refers to the RL state that Germany had, or the two modern provinces of today? I suppose the former (If so, I have populations for the historic state).

And was Luxembourg neutral during “our Great War”? I’m trying to figure out what power Burgundy will hold. And I suppose the current Luxembourgese will continue as the Royal Family?

Anyway, thank you all,

*Shed's a tear*

I'll get you all the work i did on Luxembourg for you if you want, there was a riot and a BeLux peace deal and a lion and... *trails off*

Germany is going to be a lot more peaceful and a lot less "imperialistic." Germany will begin liberalizing and become more laissez-faire, while at the same time, being quite humanitarian. I plan to build a railroad connecting Eastern Europe to the Ottoman Empire to China and Russia. Basically uniting Asia to Germany. Sweden said they would also like to be connected, so possbly connect Scandinavia, too. This would all be united under the Eastern Coalition; an economic alliance. Then German Businesses would begin heavily investing in Chinese, Russian, Ottoman and Slavian industries, while also basically buying Venezuela without landing one single soldier. Businessmen will also attempt to invest in Brazil, but may find problems with the socialists there.

The German military will still be manditory, but the Landswehr age will be lowered to 30. Without a war, most officers will head to the Ottomans, Chinese, Russian, and Balkan armies and make them very well trained. Also, Germans will begin building tons of universities in the Eastern Coalition, but with the ruling that German be manditory, so as to have a common Coalition language.

Zeppelins will be used hardcore and make several times more that what was historically used. Also, by 1918 I plan to have the Graf Zeppelin sail around the world. They will be used for fast shipment to things, and also Akron-type Zeppelins will be made, while incorporating more and more planes, with bigger Zeppelins. They will be the Aircraft carriers of the Imperial German Navy. Germany will also try to stay out of the Russian civil war, while protecting the Tzar's family. Kaiser Wilhelm will become older and begin losing power to the Businessmen but remain alive. Politics will also not change much, as the Government begins to lose some power.

Lastly, the Navy will try to stay at only 6 or so DN but with nearly 30 Cruisers and many more destroyers, while selling ships to the Ottoman and Russian Navies, as well as others who wish to buy.

Oh yeah, Germany, after paying its debts, will begin assisting its allies in paying theirs by outright payments and investing. Also, technological development will be held in Berlin, and of course, Coalition members would be allowed to join us.

Also, a previously unknown art student under the name of Adolf Schicklgruber (his mother's name) will begin heading the reconstruction effort in Austria. He was known for his faboulous landscapes, and hideous person drawings.

Are you guys still accepting players? If so, I would like to ask for Norway, since I didn't see it on the list. Give me a few hours to go to school though (I have one class today, so not too long), and then catch up on exactly how to do this.

Furthermore, if I can play Norway, can someone help me catch up to what exactly has been going on so far in the game that might effect me?

Also, a previously unknown art student under the name of Adolf Schicklgruber (his mother's name) will begin heading the reconstruction effort in Austria. He was known for his faboulous landscapes, and hideous person drawings.

Indeed, if only he'd remained an artist.
By the way, did some fact-checking and the Russian Civil War might not happen anytime soon, after all (the major right-wing leader, Grand Duke Vladimir, is about to die of natural causes, and I haven't yet found an obvious replacement for him as Regent who wouldn't be a lot more liberal).
We might end up as a boring old left-leaning constitutional monarchy for the next twelve years.
I'll keep everyone posted, and welcome suggestions.

Are you guys still accepting players? If so, I would like to ask for Norway, since I didn't see it on the list. Give me a few hours to go to school though (I have one class today, so not too long), and then catch up on exactly how to do this.

Furthermore, if I can play Norway, can someone help me catch up to what exactly has been going on so far in the game that might effect me?
Please read the First Post on this Thread for Application Policy.

he means that you have to TG Hrstlovakia to get in as Norway

As it happens, he just did, so he's confirmed as as Norway. I'll edit it in later.

Here's what Argentina is trying to do.

Diplomacy:
Mexico Whatever the new countries name is, Argentina does not recognize it until at least 1918. If it doesn't return to Mexico by then, Argentina determines it is a viable country and finally gets around to it.
Brazil The buildup of Brazilian arms comes as a shock to Argentina, who begin modernizing their army, mostly with British made technology if it becomes availiable.
Great Britain Argentina attempts to re-instate the Treaty of London.
Japan Argentina re-opens talks with Japan, hinting at a manufactured goods for food exchange.
Zion Negotiations are concluded for mass immigration, and sale of a small plot of land, for the establishment of a governing body (Think Vatican City). Jewish Settlers to Argentina are given dual citizenship. (more on this later today)

Time line:

1910: Victorino de la Plaza is elected President of Argentina
1912: Argentina officially claims 10,000 km^2 of Antarctica
1914: Former President Julio Argentino Roca dies.
1916: Luis María Drago is elected President.
1920: Drago, health failing, resigns. Vice President Ramon Sanfuentes assumes the office.

Australia can supply you with weapons and technology for your army. We can also supply manufactured goods.

*Shed's a tear*

I'll get you all the work i did on Luxembourg for you if you want, there was a riot and a BeLux peace deal and a lion and... *trails off*

If you'd like, that would be a large help. Thank you!

Luxembourg News (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=428915&)
Luxembourg Riots (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=429583&)
More Riots (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=429900&)
BelLux Treaty (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=429470&)

Wonderful, thank you. I hope to have Burgundy a bit more calm, if that's all right?

Germany would rather a state that is meant to keep peace, stay peacful. Otherwise, I'm sure the Kaiser could find a replacement.

Also, Argentina, I could sell you stuff, too. :)

Argentina: Britain will agree to a reinstatment of the Treaty of London and agrees to all the same terms. We will also agree to sell your military any British weapons you may need including Lee-Enfield rifles, artillery or navy vessels.

Links:

Artillery (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9500675&highlight=howitzer#post9500675)

surplus British naval vessels (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9546287&highlight=%A3350%2C000#post9546287)

Colombia Happenings:

Having been the first South American military to be "westernized", the Colombian army does not fear the Brazilian army. Especially due to the massive amount of fortifications that were built on the Brazilian/Venezuelan border.

The Colombian economy will keep chugging along, as workers rights are recognized, trade barriers with China and the United States are dropped completely, etc. Colombia will make a genuine effort to patch relations with Germany, seeking a trade pact. (And maybe some Zepplins!) Relations with France are much sought after, along with a free trade agreement.

Having undergone massive naval expansion, the navy will reach the following size:
2 x Lexington Battlecruisers
4 x Madrid Battlecruisers
2 x Alaska Armoured Cruisers
10 x Bogota Cruisers (Refit with Central Fire Control)
40 x Destroyers (Various)
34 x Torpedo Boats

** Most vessels were paid off by arm sales, and others were financed. The yearly cost is pretty high. Manageble, but high.

The Colombian Army will have reached 75,000 men, a small expansion over 10 years time.

Syracuse will be upgraded to allow for larger merchant vessels, and will generally pay for the upgrades itself.

With the addition of the industrialized Alsace-Lorraine, I hope to make Burgundy (relatively) economically powerful; maybe by starting the Arbed steel company a few years early. In RL 1922, Belgo-Mineira became involved in Brazil, and I believe Arbed was connected to this company.

So, in a few years, I’ll look to Brazil to expand Burgundian operations, and perhaps provide steel to the automobile market?

Hey, Artitsa, are those your class ships? Implying you're industrilized right? Well, turns out Norway isn't much of a military power, so if those are your nationalized ships perhaps I can make you a bit richer for you to make me some too.

Hey, Artitsa, are those your class ships? Implying you're industrilized right? Well, turns out Norway isn't much of a military power, so if those are your nationalized ships perhaps I can make you a bit richer for you to make me some too.

I am indeed Industrialized. The Battlecruisers were built for me by America, along with the Alaska Cruisers, and two Bogota cruisers.
I do have two Shipyards that can handle 50,000t's each... so two or three cruisers each at one time.

Russian Civil War (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9555306&postcount=64)

I'd appreciate commentary from the Mods.

let's just hope this Adolf fellow doesn't get any smart ideas about national socialism...since his hatred of the Hapsburgs has been ii guess justified would be the word.

Oh well, as the top of the line German weapons come from the minds of the R&D departments Yugoslavia will be looking to set up license or import deals, we are looking at machine guns, pistols, rifles, artillery, submachineguns(when avaliable), modern morters, and armored cars like the Kfz 222 when they come out(i am guessing the early 30's)

Also, i am thinking that military training will go along way towards making the Yugoslavian military a plausible help to Germany in any future incidents or peace-keeping operations.

Here (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=441368) is my main News and Diplomacy thread, although there is another thread I began, which is linked from the NnD thread. Cheers.

Update on Chile:
Industrial growth from 1905 - 1908 prompted by massive debt reduction, and channeling of resources into Steel and Electrical Equipment sectors through domestic capitalization.

Strong support of the United States and Columbia through the Pan American Treaty.

Surplus French weapons are now for sale. Check the French News Thread for details.

Parthini']Germany is going to be a lot more peaceful and a lot less "imperialistic." Germany will begin liberalizing and become more laissez-faire, while at the same time, being quite humanitarian. I plan to build a railroad connecting Eastern Europe to the Ottoman Empire to China and Russia. Basically uniting Asia to Germany. Sweden said they would also like to be connected, so possbly connect Scandinavia, too. This would all be united under the Eastern Coalition; an economic alliance. Then German Businesses would begin heavily investing in Chinese, Russian, Ottoman and Slavian industries, while also basically buying Venezuela without landing one single soldier. Businessmen will also attempt to invest in Brazil, but may find problems with the socialists there.

The German military will still be manditory, but the Landswehr age will be lowered to 30. Without a war, most officers will head to the Ottomans, Chinese, Russian, and Balkan armies and make them very well trained. Also, Germans will begin building tons of universities in the Eastern Coalition, but with the ruling that German be manditory, so as to have a common Coalition language.

Zeppelins will be used hardcore and make several times more that what was historically used. Also, by 1918 I plan to have the Graf Zeppelin sail around the world. They will be used for fast shipment to things, and also Akron-type Zeppelins will be made, while incorporating more and more planes, with bigger Zeppelins. They will be the Aircraft carriers of the Imperial German Navy. Germany will also try to stay out of the Russian civil war, while protecting the Tzar's family. Kaiser Wilhelm will become older and begin losing power to the Businessmen but remain alive. Politics will also not change much, as the Government begins to lose some power.

Lastly, the Navy will try to stay at only 6 or so DN but with nearly 30 Cruisers and many more destroyers, while selling ships to the Ottoman and Russian Navies, as well as others who wish to buy.

You also agreed to fully retrain and re-equip our armies. Also, as I said in my post on this thread earlier, the government will be becoming increasingly pro-business to encourage foreign investment.

Here's what Argentina is trying to do.

Diplomacy:
Mexico Whatever the new countries name is, Argentina does not recognize it until at least 1918. If it doesn't return to Mexico by then, Argentina determines it is a viable country and finally gets around to it.
Brazil The buildup of Brazilian arms comes as a shock to Argentina, who begin modernizing their army, mostly with British made technology if it becomes availiable.
Great Britain Argentina attempts to re-instate the Treaty of London.
Japan Argentina re-opens talks with Japan, hinting at a manufactured goods for food exchange.
Zion Negotiations are concluded for mass immigration, and sale of a small plot of land, for the establishment of a governing body (Think Vatican City). Jewish Settlers to Argentina are given dual citizenship. (more on this later today)

Time line:

1910: Victorino de la Plaza is elected President of Argentina
1912: Argentina officially claims 10,000 km^2 of Antarctica
1914: Former President Julio Argentino Roca dies.
1916: Luis María Drago is elected President.
1920: Drago, health failing, resigns. Vice President Ramon Sanfuentes assumes the office.


Brazil has no military intentions for one of our closest neighbours and wishes war on no-one. However, the unpredictability of world politics as shown by the recent World War dictates that we must be ever vigilant and keep our armies up to the highest standard. If anything, Brazil would like to discuss terms for a defensive alliance with Argentina?

Regards.

Personally, I feel the moving up to 1920 would be too far, and I'd prefer something like 1915 (I think it was Alt Aus who also suggested this). I will, of course, defer to the judgement of the mods.

Here's what South Africa is going to be doing up until 1920:

1908-1920
Continuing building industry and lowering unemployment, as well as major investments into education. The goal is to have South Africa be an economic power with European and American living standards by 1918. Although the law code will be liberalized, unofficial segregation will exist. Blacks will be kept from voting and political action via biased literacy tests and loopholes in the citizenship laws.

1911
Prime Ministerial elections, Louis Botha wins by a landslide.

1913-14
Worker's strikes, suppressed by military. The next year, former general Christiaan de Wet will lead an insurrection against Botha's government. The rebellion is crushed in a few weeks by an overwhelming force of government soldiers.

1916
PM Elections, Louis Botha wins and appoints Jan Smuts as Deputy.

1919
Louis Botha dies of natural causes, Jan Smuts takes over. Elections will be held as scheduled in 1921.

following Malkyer's example....
Yugoslavia plans the following:
-Economic and military ties with Germany growing intensely with the creation of the Eastern Coalition

-1909: Articles of Confederation goes into effect, Ante Trumbic will act as head of state, with a parliment made up of reps. from each state.

-Construction of a greater amount of factories to unite Yugoslavia economically with the rest of Europe

-Construction of more schools, so that children have the possiblity of a free education until the 12th year, all over the nation.

-Help the German's create a railroad in Yugoslavia to connect with the Germany-China line.

-Focus military training and equipment to follow German docterine and gear.

-Give the Ottoman's all the ships larger than a light cruiser(inherited from Austrian Navy) in exchange for the Ottoman's covering the costs of Yugoslavian debt.

-increase military professionalism, with a body of reserve troops.(weekend warriors like the american national guard)

Russian Constitution of 1913 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9556647&postcount=72)

Again, I'd appreciate peer-review and comments.
I'll post subsequent policies and projects soon.

I also support the idea of 2015, not 2020, but regardless I'll go with the game either way since I'm relatively new.

Actions by 2020:


Increase of Norwegian Royal Navy to four more modern battleships, added to the recent purchase of three St. Vincents. The original four Norwegian battleships would be sold to less developed countries, to aid for the payment of the RNR refitting. It would also include the increase in the number of destroyers, from six-eight to around thirty.
Increase of Norwegian Royal Army from six proffessional divisions to fifteen, while the Home Guard would be dismantled in favor of a 100% proffessional army.
The beginnings of a Norwegian Royal Airforce, although it wouldn't be too advance, or too large, until around 1940.


Of course Norway, with the course I'm heading, would be one of the largest trade hubs of the world, and all, but that really needs role playing. Consequently, most of Northern Norway would be industrialized, and Hammerfest would become a principle shipyard for a new line of Norwegian ships, although this might as well be finished by 2025-2030, not 2015-2020.

OOC:

I think I have a rough sketch of what economic, infrastructure, industrialization, etc. that China will take between 1908 - 1920.

However, I'm at a loss for China's military. I'm not that good with stats and such, so any help figuring out China's military would be quite helpful. For starters, I want to invest in blimps and airplanes, beginning to use automobiles for troop transport (Army Trucks), train my troops to Westerner standards of training...

Also, I'd like to know when I can create Chinese designed and built guns, ships, vehicles, etc. Not only that, but what would be the limitations on Chinese native-built stuff?

Right now in 1908, I believe China is at Tech Level 4 and an Economic rating of Fair (more development on its way with massive German and British aid, as well as a lot more trade with more nations like Ottomans, Australia, Colombia, USA, Russia, etc.)

Well Sharina, China and Norway, two growing economic powers (your's sorta by default, mine by my own pressuring to become an economic power), can begin some kind of economic and military cooperation, where we would become major trading partners, and Norway can train your professional army in a more western fashion, although, of course, Norway can't hope to match French or German proffesioncy (sp?)...but it's just an idea.

Personally, I feel the moving up to 1920 would be too far

I agree. Furthermore, I'm not quite sure why we need to fast-forward time at all. After all, our current system has been working fine and progressing time along in an efficent/corrdinated manner (far better than any RP where the date is anyone's guess).

However, If we intend to push forward with this, I guess I will highlight major Belgian Events:

1911:All major projects in the Belgian Congo have been completed and a sea of commodities flood the Belgian Market, leading to far higher revenues in International Trade.

1914:The Leopold School of Economics is established in Antwerp and begins to preach a doctrine of lassie-faire economics. Based on these principles, a new political party, the United Business Party of Belgium (UBPB) is formed.

1915:As a result of growing political pressures from an increasingly Liberal Parliment/Populace, King Albert I abdicates the throne and re-locates to Stockholm. Shortly after, Parliment Declares Belgium a Federal Republic and Elections for a new President are organized for the end of the year.

1916: By a slim margin, UBPB Candidate, Allard Leburton beats Liberal Candidate, Max Jorgen, and is elected president of the new Republic. At once, he begins to implement massive reforms in Belgium's economic policies, initiating a flat-tax system, greatly reducing government regulations, sponsoring the establishment of a private welfare program.

In the Military, conscription programs are dismantled and a small standing army is put into place. All weaponry (still mostly French) is standardized and a new logsitics system is implemented. Fabrique Nationale begins work on a new Belgian Rifle.

1918:Boosted by the economic reforms of 1916, the Belgian Economy starts to grow at a rapid pace, with large Industrial centres popping up out of Ghent and Liege and cities such as Bruxelles and Antwerp growing to massive proportions. However, public debt and inflation begin to steadily rise, worrying some investors.

there are a lot of advantages... several nations have been working on long range projects and it would give them a chance to see a payoff. It would mean that by then most if not all of the war debts are paid off. It would also allow people to start playing with airplanes, some nationalist groups to get grumpy and some other odds and ends. Hence the choice by the three of us who are doing most of the refereeing to move things up 12 years.

US actions 1912 - 20
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9556627&postcount=106
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9556611&postcount=105
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9556555&postcount=104

So, when are we moving to 1920 or whatever? My instincts tell me Monday, but I just want clarification.

As a side note, I am starting to take Spanish classes. So don't be surprised if my communications contain (probably highly butchered) a few lines of the simple buenos dias (I can never spell that right) type stuff

Monday is correct.

FW if you need any help with spanish just ask im CUBAN!!! and also there is a fairly decent translator but sometimes its too literal Free Online Translator (http://www.worldlingo.com/en/products_services/worldlingo_translator.html)

Well, since everybody is beginning to move up.... my plans. Sorta inspired by the other plans in the main thread, but hopefully, it is original enough. Posted this in economics too, so this is for reference....

1912- Gojong dies, and names Prince Gang as heir. Before death, announces beginning of electrification and joint ventures with Australia in chemicals.

New political parties form, the United Progress Party (liberals, reform from above people, led by Rhoo Joon) and Korea First Party (conservatives, led by Kim Mong Ryong). Socialists gather, but not in any strong numbers, inspired by their Russian counterparts. Elections result in victory for Progress Party, for another six year Congressional term.

1915- Wankel Engine Finished....rights licensed to Italy. Major industries up and running. First unions begin organizing, meet resistance from government. Korean Motor Company founded to provide tractors, cars and trucks, though others are allowed to compete. National University established in Seoul.

1916- Emperor Gang announces Armed Forces reforms. Pushes for studies of automobile use in battle and for an air force, zepplin or fixed-wing based, plus a bigger navy and merchant marine.

1918- Elections result in another victory for Progress Party. Socialists, inspired by industrial conditions, organize to form Korean Workingmans' Party (party is small, but makes others nervous). In response, Congress issues labor laws mandating a minimum wage and "good working conditions" (undefined).

French things for 1908-1920.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9557007#post9557007

Thanks, Comrade Philanchez. At the moment I don't have any issues with what we've learned in Spanish so far, save for the double r sound. But with time that shall be fixed. We've only been in class for a week or so, anyways, and it'll be at least another year before I can become fluent. Were it not for the highly diverse standards for high schools here in the U.S., chances are I'd already have taken Spanish classes.

But because we Americans do not have any real unified standards, and because this is my third high school, idiot bureacratic schools have made me take classes I took in 8th grade in 10th. That class was World History I, which I managed to pass with like a 98. Needless to say, I am now enrolled in AP history classes, and some other honors and AP classes, and some of the teachers etc. STILL want me to take freshman level science classes, despite the fact that I am going to take the AP science next year. (For those not in the know, AP is supposably a freshman-in-college level class taken in high school. You take the AP Exam at the end, and if you score high enough, you can earn college credit at certain universities.)

do you not read the little thing under peoples names??? i live in georgia...no one in my family has lived in cuba since castro took power...my grandparents were part of the relatively rich landed class but lost everything when they fled...in fact my grandfather had a chance to kill castro but he decided not to because they would kill him and then his family wouldnt be able to survive

Burgundy Events, 1908-1920:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9557282#post9557282

Well since Argentina was re-claimed I will be taking Hungary. Timeline of events 1908-1920:

1908: Liberal government takes office and places the Hapsburg Monarchy into a total figurehead status. Disbands almost all the military and focuses on the rebuilding of Hungary

1909(Early): Conservative leaders march on capital demanding more rights for the Monarchy and protests turn violent, leaving hundreds dead. Some of the Monarch’s powers are restored but most are not. The Hungarian Monarch’s now have slightly more power than say the British Monarch but not much more.

1909(Late)-1916: Repaying of debts, with a succession of liberal governments who do that and not much else. Not that they can afford to do much else. With much of the country war torn, most of the economic growth is agricultural though industry is rapidly increasing as well.

1917: Pro-Royalist protests end in violence as nearly two hundred are killed by Hungarian Troops, sparks a month-long rebellion leaving hundreds of government troops dead and just as many protestors, many former soldiers form the army as well.

1918-1920: Discontent growing against the government especially with widely unemployed soldier groups. Army fraternities such as the Steel Helmets and the larger and more powerful Freedom Party are gaining increasing power under the leadership of Fredek Tollazat, a former sergeant in the army and radical Royalist.

A former sergeant in the army, veteran of a Great War on the losing side, Freedom Party. Like Harry Turtledove?

A former sergeant in the army, veteran of a Great War on the losing side, Freedom Party. Like Harry Turtledove?

I have the whole Great War series by Harry Turtledove. I have the series starting with the Second Mexican War (1880's), the Great War (1912 - 1918), the Post-War years, and the new World War 2 books "Victorious Opposition" and "Return Engagement".

I have the whole Great War series by Harry Turtledove. I have the series starting with the Second Mexican War (1880's), the Great War (1912 - 1918), the Post-War years, and the new World War 2 books "Victorious Opposition" and "Return Engagement".

Just as an aside, any fans of Turtledove should do a nation search for "Featherstones America".

I have quite a list of things that I plan for China to do between 1908 and 1920. It may be a long read, so beware. :p Hopefully this list will cover EVERYTHING that needs to be covered for the time-warp and what lies in store for China by 1920.

Without further ado, here we go...

1. China's current status.
2. China's plans for the civilian sector.
3. China's economy growth.
4. China's military stuff.
5. International deals and alliances with China.
6. China's overall goals for 1920.
7. Miscellanous stuff.

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1. China's current status.
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China is currently at Tech Level 4, with a Fair economy. The economy is still developing, and China did not suffer a recession like the rest of Europe and the majority of the world. China has entered into several major deals with several foreign powers, while gaining a potential enemy. China has not engaged in any major military action, or suffered any warfare during the Great War. A potential war was averted at Indochina, but China chooses to maintain its troop deployment near Indochina as a buffer aganist any Indochinan invasion.

China has signed trade deals with Britain, Germany, Korea, Japan, Ottomans, and several other nations. It is expected with major investment and trading taking place, China is poised to become wealthy and help pay off the debts of Britain, Germany, Japan, and Ottomans. This in turn will help the world's economy, while boosting China to Westerner standards of living and industrialization.

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2. China's plans for the civilian sector.
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China is planning to undertake multiple major public works projects, which will be able to take place with the British selling heavy machinery, construction equipment, engineers, and blueprints for factories.

One project is to connect all major Chinese cities and trading hubs through railroad and regular road. This will allow for a much more efficient trade system where mass quanities of goods can be delivered via railroad, while allowing Chinese people ease of travel in automobiles on the regular roads. This will open up millions upon millions of new consumers and dozens of large marketplaces for international and domestic trade and supplies.

Another project is to construct massive dams on several major rivers such as the Yellow and Yangtze Rivers. This will greatly aid farming and irrigation efforts, while leaving the option open for hydroelectric power. It is believed that China possesses 1/4 of the world's potential for hydroelectric power, which should help immensely in electrification efforts.

A third project is the electrification of Chinese cities by introducing electric lamps, traffic lights, interior lighting, electric railroads, trolleys, potential subways, electric factory machinery, and so forth. The British have offered to contribute electrical generating equipment, and engineers to develop electric generation plants. The electrification will also help Chinese factories immensely, boosting China's industry capacity by factors of magnitude.

A fourth project is construction of large artificial harbors to help trade, shipbuilding, and China's growing shipping sector. The harbors will be built or dug on good harbor sites, or act as expansions to natural harbors already existing within Chinese coastlines.

A fifth project is the construction of no less than fifty universities throughout China to greatly aid higher-level education, enabling China to finally have an intellectual elite matching the United States, Britain, and Germany. This will allow China to construct and develop high-tech industries by 1915 - 1925, including an aerospace sector, armored vehicle sector, radio sector, and so forth. This effort is going to employ British and German assistance, as Britain has promised engineers, scientists, and teachers towards this endeavour. Germany has promised military educators and scientists, as well as construction aid.

Several other miscellanous projects include construction of river-spanning bridges for roads and railroad lines as well as the establishment of several rudimentary highways connecting Peking, Shanghai, Canton, Tienstin, Luo Yang, among others. Another miscellanous project is establishing a nationwide telegraph wire system matching the extent of the national telegraph system of the United States.

China is also planning on having at least 15 to 20 million loyal Chinese settlers migrate to Mongolia, smothering the Mongolian people into a small minority, thus making Mongolian independence extremely difficult to achieve. According to the CIA Factbook, Mongolia has approximately 2.7 million people in 2005, which means it might have 1 million or so in 1920. This idea is similiar to the principle of Israeli and Jewish settlers settling in Palestinian lands of Gaza and West Bank.

China is also going to promote population growth, with the goal of reaching somewhere around 600 million by 1920. This will be done so through population incentive laws and reward programs.

As an aside... China's current population in 2005 is approximately 1.3 - 1.4 billion, and China was approximately 450 million in 1900. Thus, China should have gained roughly 80 - 100 million people every 10 years to arrive at 1.3 - 1.4 billion by 2005.

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3. China's economy growth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

China expects to promote massive economic growth from several factors, including the public works projects and foreign investment.

First, Britain and Germany has promised substantial aid to China in terms of manufactured goods like machinery, engineers to help construct more factories in China, scientists and professors to begin teaching at universities, and so forth. Not only that, but with the conclusion of the Great War, there is a surplus of goods in Europe that far exceeds consumer demand in Europe. However, the demand is quite high in China, which means that China will be the salvation of the West, helping the West recover from its recession. Most of the foreign investment and such will be repaid in Chinese goods and material.

Second, the undertaking of the massive public works projects will open up millions of new jobs for those less fortunate Chinese peasants and laborers. This should help reduce the unemployment rate in China, and also with millions of people being employed, it increases potential tax revenue. Not only that, but with millions of Chinese people working at their newfound jobs, these people will be able to purchase luxuries and commodities that they could not do so before, such as automobiles, jewelery, fancy clothes, telegraphs, radios, and so forth. This should increase and encourage China's domestic economy to develop, as Chinese companies will set up factories and shops to produce and sell the commodities and luxuries to the newly employed workforce.

Third, with the electrification of Chinese cities, homes, and factories, it should boost China's economy by a considerable amount. Chinese businesses will be able to stay open late at night due to electric lamps, Chinese homes will be able to utilize electric appliances and equipment such as stoves and refrigators, and Chinese factories will be able to maintain a constant output 24 hours a day with electric lighting and electric-driven factory machinery. The factories will be able to maintain its output during the winter months as they will require far less coal per factory, thus allowing coal to be used for other more immediate uses and applications such as power generation or heating purposes.

Finally, with the discovery of oil by the Ottomans, and the trade deal between China and Ottomans, in which the Ottomans supply China with oil in exchange for Chinese manufactured goods and Chinese support in rebuilding the Ottoman Empire, this should serve as another boost to the Chinese economy. China will drift away from coal as a major source of non-electric-generation energy and replace it with oil for its automobiles and naval vessels. Oil should prove to be another useful industrialization tool for China to modernize to meet its goals by 1920.

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4. China's military stuff.
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China has been contacted by several nations wishing to aid China in its defense and military improvement.

The Italians promised China that they were to build two 50,000 ton shipyards in Shanghai. The shipyards will be completed by 1910 at the latest (Unsure whether these shipyards have been completed by now or not). The Italians have also promised China three Savoy (I may be mistaken) dreadnoughts / battleships upon the conclusion of the Great War.

The Germans have promised substantial military aid, especially officers and military training. They have also promised China to provide German weapons and possibly the ability to manufacture German weapons within China's own weapons factories.

The British have agreed to aid China in building additional shipyards, as well as teaching China how to build more on its own. The British have also agreed to train China in naval warfare, and aid in Chinese construction of a Chinese Navy. Britain may also send military officers and British military equipment.

China plans on expanding its Army to 1 million troops by 1920, as more military training, equipment, and experience takes place. China plans this expansion so to secure its lands once and for all aganist potential foreign aggression and deny a chance of another "Boxer Rebellion" or "Opium Wars" from occurring again. The expansion will be financed partly by the inevitable large scale profits that the Chinese people will be experiencing under new trade deals and such.

China plans on constructing its very first destroyers, cruisers, and possibly a dreadnought or two by 1920. This effort will be aided somewhat by the expertise of the British officers and engineers, and German military training. China also plans on constructing several more shipyards so that it may be able to field a modernized Navy that can safely protect Chinese waters from any aggression.

China plans on testing the feasibility of automobiles and airplanes (China will call them airships) by 1920. China plans on acquiring the know-how to construct its own automobiles and airships, allowing it to explore the military potential of these technologies. China also is planning on having several zeppelins, with German help, and possibly some scout airships.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. International deals and alliances with China.
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China has gained a tremendous amount of potential friends in the short time between the Boxer Rebellion and the Great War, while gaining at least one potential enemy.

China has signed an alliance with Korea and Japan. China is on good terms with Russia, Germany, and Ottomans. China is looking to improve relations with Britain (this is certain with the upcoming British investment and aid) and the USA (to have a friend in the Americas). China is on friendly terms with Italy due to their shipyard building efforts, and possibly some trade. China is neutral towards most other nations, but looking to improve relations with Australia, Norway, and Colombia. However, China is starting to look upon France as a potential enemy due to France's shifty politics and dealings regarding Indochina, which China believes is rightfully Chinese.

China's Stances:

Allies:

Japan
Korea

Cordial / Very Friendly:

Germany
Russia
Ottomans

Friendly:

Britain
Italy
USA

Neutral:

Everyone else

Wary:

France

Hostile:

None

War:

None

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6. China's overall goals for 1920.
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China plans on achieving several things by the time 1920 rolls around.

First, China aims to reach Tech Level 5 with the massive influx of university-building, a growing intellectual elite, more Chinese scientists, improving infrastructure, electrification of Chinese cities, enhanced transportation networks, and so forth.

Second, China aims for an Economy of at least Very Strong or Thriving due to massive trade potential, multiple Westerner nations trading with China, the Chinese people gaining many more jobs, more modernization of Chinese homes, more demand for domestic goods, improvement of Chinese factories, China helping the world recover from recession, and a plethora of other things I have stated above.

Third, China wants to have a decent Navy by 1920. A Navy that is more than capable of defending Chinese waters. Some destroyers, cruisers, torpedo boats, PT Boats, and perhaps several battleships and submarines.

Fourth, China desires to have an Army equal to Westerner standards of training and equipment. China wants to have 1 million soldiers by 1920 to be able to effectively defend China's rather large expanse of territory. China is approximately the size of the United States, and a 1 million soldier force is a tiny fraction of China's possibly 500 or 600 million populace by 1920. This fraction would be significantly smaller than what the French, British, Germany, and other Westerner nations are able to field in proportion to their populaces.

Fifth, China seeks to hopefully reach Westerner levels of technology, modernization, and industrialization by 1920, or 1925 at the latest.

Sixth, China wants to acquire automobile and aircraft technologies between 1908 and 1918 so that it can build its own automobiles and aircraft.

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7. Miscellanous stuff.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are several relevant links to posts proving the British, German, and Japanese deals, as well as potential Norway and Australian deals.

1. British deal with China to help modernization.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost....7&postcount=156

2. German deal with China to help military.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost....5&postcount=175

3. German deal with China to help modernize.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost....89&postcount=65

4. Japan offers to help China modernize (waiting to finish with the Mongolian diplomat before negoiations start with Japan).

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost....65&postcount=64

Also, you can refer to my Chinese Events thread for additional proof of diplomacy, trade deals, and the like.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=432834

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Phew! A lot of writing and brain-racking. I hope this has been helpful in determining what will happen for China by 1920. I'm also posting this in the Economic Thread.

Please share your feedback and thoughts on this. :)

British plans for the next 12 years:

(Unashamedly stolen from Sharina's idea)

1. Briatin's current status.
2. Britain's plans for the civilian sector.
3. Britain's economy growth.
4. Britain's military stuff.
5. International deals and alliances with Britain.
6. Britain's overall goals for 1920.

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1. Britain's current status.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Current tech level: 5
Current Economic situation: Thriving (limited due to recession)

Currently feeling the effects of a slight recession due to the ending of the war but has begun to increase industrial efforts once more. Particularly since the opening of new markets in China and the far East, the recent building of the Cairo-Cape Railroad and it's expansion Eastwards, through Turkish territory to meet up with India and to further forge ahead into China and Northwards.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Britain's plans for the civilian sector.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Universal Sufferage, women over 30 granted all voting rights in 1914 (earlier since no disruption in sufferagette campaign due to war) and all over the age of 21 (the same as men) in 1920.

Major nationwide construction of new roads and railways linking all of Britain's towns in a project funded by the government to provide money to the unemployed following the recession. Other projects will include buildiing shipyards to supplement the increased trade in shipbuilding experienced recently.

The Fisher Education Act of 1918 makes secondary education compulsory (and free) up to age 14 and gave responsibility for secondary education schools to the state. This ensures a better educated and more skilled populace for the future.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Britain's economy growth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

With repayment of loans and profits made from the war Britain has set up a major industrial growth plan with guaranteed markets in China, Turkey, Eastern Europe and all British Colonies the factories have many places in which to sell their goods.

Further development of the infrastructure and public works programs are also expected to aid the economy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Britain's military stuff.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Navy

As stated in the military thread the following vessels will be produced:

Aircraft Carriers

HMS Argus (1916)
HMS Furious (1916)

Glorious class
HMS Glorious (1916)
HMS Courageous (1916)

HMS Vindictive (1918)
HMS Eagle (1918)

Post-Dreadnought battleships

St. Vincent class
HMS St. Vincent, HMS Collingwood, HMS Vanguard (1908)
Neptune class
HMS Neptune (1909)
Colossus class
HMS Colossus, HMS Hercules (1910)
Orion class
HMS Orion, HMS Monarch, HMS Conqueror, HMS Thunderer (1910)
King_George_class_
HMS_King_George_V, HMS_Centurion, HMS_Audacious, HMS_Ajax (1911)
Iron_Duke_class
HMS_Iron_Duke, HMS_Marlborough, HMS_Benbow, HMS_Emperor_of_India (1912)
HMS_Agincourt(1913)
HMS_Erin (1913)
HMS_Canada (1913)
Queen_Elizabeth_class
HMS_Queen_Elizabeth, HMS_Warspite, HMS_Barham, HMS_Valiant, HMS_Malaya (1914)
Revenge_class
HMS_Royal_Oak, HMS_Royal_Sovereign, HMS_Revenge, HMS_Resolution, HMS_Ramillies (1915)
TOTAL: 31 battlesips by 1915

Cruisers
5 heavy by 1910
71 light and medium by 1917

Destroyers
492 by 1920 (yes really!)

Corvettes
100 by 1918

Submarines
193 by 1919

Again all above are done by historical launch date.

naval technology advances:
Diesel-electric subs by 1908 (D class and later)

Superfiring system developed on HMS Neptune in 1909 (all turets in echelon and rear turrets can fire over each other) allows for better all round firing.

First Super Dreadnought developed (HMS Orion, firing 13.5" shells form 10 guns)

First use of 14" guns (HMS Canada 1913)

First use of 15" guns (HMS Queen Elizabeth, 1913)

Extensive anti-submarine defences built for the first time in 1914 around Scapa Floe, consisting of tonnes of concrete and lots of anti-torpedo netting to render the anchorage virtually safe against all submarines.

The Army

Should experience slight increases in numbers due to increase in population but will remain relatively stable. Increased uptake of new weapons such as machine guns (Vickers .303 adopted in 1912), submachine guns and rifles (including the new Lee-Enfield Mk V).

Also the introduction of the Territorial Army and the Reserves scheme ensures that there will always be a large number of trained and equipped men ready to go to war should the situation call for it.

Armoured cars have been developed ad the British version will be the Rolls Royce Amroured Car, a Rolls Royce chassis with 12mm armour and a Vickers machine gun mounted in a turret. The 1920 varient has a domed turret with 4 machine guns in.

Tanks are not yet thought of and another war will be needed before they can be designed.

The Airforce

The royal Flying Corps was amalgamated with the Royal Naval Air Service in 1918 to make the Royal Air Force.

Aircraft used include:
Airco DH2 DH4 DH5 and DH9
Armstrong-Whitworth FK3
Avro 504
Bleriot Experimental 2a 2b 2c
Bristol F2A F2B Scout
Handley Page O/400
Martinsyde G.100
Morane-Saulnier Bullet Biplanet Parasol
Nieuport Scout 17 23 & 27
Royal Aircraft Factory SE5 SE5a BE2e BE12 FE2 FE8 RE7 and RE8
Sopwith Aviation Company Baby Camel Dolphin Pup Snipe 1½ Strutter
SPAD S.VII and S.XIII
Vickers FB5

and the 1920 total of aircraft will number approximately 800 machines and 25 observation balloons.

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5. International deals and alliances with Britain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remaining on a fairly neutral stance Britain has the following relations with the rest of the world:

Allies:
Argentina
Germany

Cordial / Very Friendly:
Russia
Ottomans
USA

Friendly:
China

Neutral:
Everyone else

Wary:
None

Hostile:
None

War:
None

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6. Britain's overall goals for 1920.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Increase international trade and the economy

Maintain fairly neutral international stance

Maintain world reknowned and most powerful navy

Increase capabilities of other military arms including devlopment of new bomber aircraft

Utilise new trade routes, including Cairo-Capetown railroad and it's new Eastern spur.

Maintain good domestic relations and hold on to the Empire.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot of stuff in there, but it is 12 years that we're skipping and there's much to develop in between.

Also, Edward VII will die and be replaced as monarch by George V. David Lloyd George will be Prime Minister and will represent the Liberal Party.

The cabinet will be as follows bold shows persons of note:

Lord Birkenhead - Lord Chancellor
Lord Curzon - Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Lords
Andrew Bonar Law - Lord Privy Seal and Leader of the House of Commons
Austen Chamberlain - Chancellor of the Exchequer
Edward Shortt - Secretary of State for the Home Department
Arthur James Balfour - Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs
Lord Milner - Secretary of State for the Colonies
Winston Churchill - Secretary of State for War and Air
Edwin Samuel Montagu - Secretary of State for India
Walter Hume Long - First Lord of the Admiralty
Sir Albert Henry Stanley - President of the Board of Trade
Robert Munro - Secretary for Scotland
James Ian Macpherson - Chief Secretary for Ireland
Lord French - Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland
Christopher Addison - President of the Local Government Board
Rowland Edmund Prothero - President of the Board of Agriculture
Herbert Albert Laurens Fisher - President of the Board of Education
Lord Inverforth - Minister of Munitions
Sir Robert Horne - Minister of Labour
George Nicoll Barnes - Minister without Portfolio
Sir Eric Geddes - Minister without Portfolio

1908 - 1920: This coming decade will be marked by the emergence of our nation as a Monarchy and with closer ties to the rest of the world especially the Western Nations. Land and Social reform as well as further education and modernization will be emphasized over the next decade as well as women's rights and several topics of national security. Most of the developments of the modern world (i.e. the telephone, automobile, bicycle, radio and the like) become a part of Bulgarian life to a lesser degree than in most other western nations...

1911: Bulgaria starts the Royal Air Force of Bulgaria with mostly American, German, British and French designed aircraft and is evolves constantly.

1908, 1912, 1916 and 1920: Bulgaria competes in the Olympic Games.

September 14, 1916: Prime Minister Seleinova retires and is replaced by Prime Minister Alexander Machelinev of the Social Democratic Union.

May 13, 1919: King Ferdinand I of Bulgaria dies of natural causes and HRH Crown Princess Catherine becomes Queen Catherine I in Sofia's Eastern Palace. Every major nation attends the crowning of Catherine in some form or another and is broadcast on radio all over Europe.

During Catherine's 1st Year as Queen, Bulgaria signs a pact with Great Britain and the United States as well as several other western nations to form a new International Organization (the Society of Nations).

In foreign relations, things are neutral yet improving between us and Romania, Russia, United States, United Kingdom, several of our neighbours, Germany, Ottomans and many others including France while most of the others are neutral to warm relations...

I forgot to add several other things that China would also like to do by 1920.

1. Acquire the Wankel Engine from Korea, either through trade, a deal, or espionage.

2. Build one Aircraft Carrier for China's scout planes, and develop a shipbuilding capacity to construct more aircraft carriers in the future. (1920 onwards)

3. Model the education system after the USA's system of multi-level schools. Pre-kindgarten, kindgarten, elementary, middle school, high school, and college / university. China will construct over 50 universities throughout China, and probably thousands of pre-schools (includes kindgarten), elementary schools, middle schools, and high schools.

4. China's top priority is to seek an alliance with Germany and possibly a military alliance with the other members of the Coalition (Russia, Ottomans, etc.)

5. One more economic boost for China will come from the development and participation in the Eastern Coalition (Trade alliance of China, Ottomans, Germany, Russia, Greece, and most of the former Coalition members).

GB: Found a good site with ships of the French navy. Had to go through and count the actual numbers as they didn't have them. I have eight battleships, 17 cruisers. (I did have nine battleships, but I gave up one one for the aircraft carriers.) Destroyer numbers are crazy. If you have a site that gives actualy number and doesn't just list them, please let me know.

Ok, as fun as Economic Blocs are, Laissez-Faire is just too peaceful to me. So, I'm going to follow Russia and go commie.


Timeline

1909: Germany begins selling many industries to mainly Jewish Businessmen. Zeppelin flight to London.

1910: Berlin-Baghdad Railroad done, Silk Railroad construction begins. Junkers almost completely removed from political power. Kaiser Wilhelm goes crazy-er. Wilhelm III comes to power, then begins losing it.

1911: Suppression of worker's rights begins, protests and strikes put down violently. Zeppelin flight to Baghdad.

1911-1914: Research done with Zeppelins and aircraft with machine guns attached.

1915: Prince Eitel Friederich murdered by Communists. First usage of machine guns on the front of airplanes by Capitalists against strike.

1916: Princes Adalbert and Oskar give support to Communists. Wilhelm III banishes them. Junkers begin converting to Communism.

1918: Zeppelin Flight to America.

1919: Revolutionary Colonel Reichmann assassinates entire Reichstag, at this time totally controlled by Capitalists.

December 12, 1919: Oskar and Adalbert arrive in Kongingsberg, declare war on "Capitalist Pig-Dogs." Invites Russian People's Army to "liberate the workers."

GB: Found a good site with ships of the French navy. Had to go through and count the actual numbers as they didn't have them. I have eight battleships, 17 cruisers. (I did have nine battleships, but I gave up one one for the aircraft carriers.) Destroyer numbers are crazy. If you have a site that gives actualy number and doesn't just list them, please let me know.

that works for me, its probably the site I use

Parthini']Ok, as fun as Economic Blocs are, Laissez-Faire is just too peaceful to me. So, I'm going to follow Russia and go commie.


December 12, 1919: Oskar and Adalbert arrive in Kongingsberg, declare war on "Capitalist Pig-Dogs." Invites Russian People's Army to "liberate the workers."

ok, I can live with Germany going Red, but that would definitely be a very bloody and potentially long Civil War. The Bavarians for example are extremely Catholic, and they aren't going to go for that. The powerful vested interests of the Junkers and Krupp type business leaders aren't either, and they have plenty of money. The farmers aren't going to like going Red either, as they mostly own their land or are glorified serfs who lack the education to buy into Red propaganda. There is a reason even after the collapse of Germany after World War I in our timeline that the Fascists beat the Reds. So please come up with a good story for this.

By the way, no way a Red Germany retains an alliance with even a Liberal or Labor Britain, and there is no way Labor is going to assume power in Britain yet without a Great Depression or World War that they are involved in. The British are pretty conservative about radical political change.

I would suggest a growing upswing in Socialist and Communist party membership Postwar...1908-10, and a Conservative/Reactionary Backlash, leading to strikes in the 1910-13 period, more backlash, and then finally a civil war breaking out in 1914, lasting until 1918 or so, and its a bloody one. Of course then the Germans could invent tanks, fighters, bombers, infiltration tactics, all of which you want anyway, its also more colorful, and can lead to fun stuff like the Kaiser being put up against a wall and shot, Lunderforf and Hindenburg showing up, promising young Red officers like Rommel (who was middle class) and Guderian (who was also), who will be generals in about 15 years, and other fun stuff.

Civil War would be Prussia, Bavaria, Austria vs the Ruhr and Berlin (the more religious conservative elements vs the more proleterian elements) with the other parts of Germany siding one way or another. Figure a couple of million dead though, a Civil War like the Spanish Civil War would be pretty damn messy.

Also, a Civil War gives you an excuse to default on all that money you owe to Russia, America and Britain, and become more expansionistic later. (Revolutionary Zeal and all that)

Red Germany. Now that is interesting in and of itself. What is also interesting is the deal that Italy and France have made. While there has been no comment (as far as I know), France and I have just set up a sort of European market, and I at least have started teaching French in Italy.

Philanchez: I didn't mean comrade as in communist Cuba. As Allanea--a very capitalist player here in NationStates--can attest, as well as various others, I call numerous people comrade. It's better than the habbit I've developed at school, where I spontaneously break into pirate speech (Arr!).

Ok...

Appologies to all who think my idea is wierd. I haven't done crap for research since early August (other than reading a book about Zeppelins) so as you can see, my politics were screwy.

Fortunately, I have Labor Day weekend break, which means unlimited computer time (yay!), which means a good story (yay!) which means WWII (yay!)... erm....

I have the whole Great War series by Harry Turtledove. I have the series starting with the Second Mexican War (1880's), the Great War (1912 - 1918), the Post-War years, and the new World War 2 books "Victorious Opposition" and "Return Engagement".

I just finished reading American Empire: Blood and Iron and I'm currently in search of The Center Cannot Hold at my local bookstore. Of course, if I can't find it there, I'll just buy it online.

Anyways, it's a great read and I do suggest that those interested in so-called "Alternate History" look into it.

France and I have just set up a sort of European market

If you don't mind, Belgium may consider joining this "European Market," if it gets an invitation, that is.

Red Germany. Now that is interesting in and of itself. What is also interesting is the deal that Italy and France have made. While there has been no comment (as far as I know), France and I have just set up a sort of European market, and I at least have started teaching French in Italy.


Yep. I might as well start teaching Italian. (They're basically the same...right?)

Red Germany, eh? This could be bad. Commies are gaining power in Eastern Europe! My Conservative leaders certainly won't like that.

Must..form..League..to stop them!

I just finished reading American Empire: Blood and Iron and I'm currently in search of The Center Cannot Hold at my local bookstore. Of course, if I can't find it there, I'll just buy it online.

Anyways, it's a great read and I do suggest that those interested in so-called "Alternate History" look into it.



If you don't mind, Belgium may consider joining this "European Market," if it gets an invitation, that is.

Great to know there's other Harry Turtledove fans! I was starting to think I was the only person who has ever heard of Harry Turtledove, or even the "Alternate History" genre of novels. :eek:

Great to know there's other Harry Turtledove fans! I was starting to think I was the only person who has ever heard of Harry Turtledove, or even the "Alternate History" genre of novels. :eek:

I have read them all, but I still prefer "Guns of the South"

Turtledove is pretty good. I've read his Great War series and Guns of the South.

Anyone ever read Isladn in the Sea of Time?

Red Germany, eh? This could be bad. Commies are gaining power in Eastern Europe! My Conservative leaders certainly won't like that.

Must..form..League..to stop them!
'Cause of course it worked so well last time.

'Cause of course it worked so well last time.

worked out pretty well for France and Italy (chuckle)...not so good for Austria though

Turtledove is pretty good. I've read his Great War series and Guns of the South.

Anyone ever read Isladn in the Sea of Time?

yes, Stirling wrote a great trilogy.... I like the Draka books even more though

yes, Stirling wrote a great trilogy.... I like the Draka books even more though

The Draka books? I haven't heard of those.

The one thing that annoyed me about Stirling was the blatant rip off of Zulu in the last book of the trilogy.

A little off subject, but I've been thinking of some *REALLY* interesting ideas for the 1920's and the 1930's. For starters, I'm trying to envision a China that has Hitler as a military advisor, and a possible Nazi China. :p

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1167/hitlerinchina29eq.png

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/291/hitlerinchina10nx.png

Haha. I would very much like to acquire Adolf Hitler as a RP character, just for the adventure of it. :)

I'd like to add my reasoning behind either acquiring Adolf Hitler as a character, or someone similiar to him.

I know I have a new leader and dynasty, but I'm not sure *how* to transform him into a charimastic and driving force of the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Franklin Roosevelt, Churchill, etc. I'm trying to think up of some characters that will help China modernize and industrialize similiar to what Germany underwent between the failed Weimar Republic, the rise of Nazism, and the powerhouse Germany was between 1939 - 1941 (under Hitler and Nazi direction).

China needs some kind of major focus, now with all the economic trade and aid pouring in from war ravaged Europe (Britain, Germany, Russia, Ottomans, Norway, and possibly others) as well as the USA, Japan, Korea, and Argentina. With a strong leader like Hitler (him probably not until 1920, 1925, 1930, or later) during the 1910-1920, it would help China considerably.

My Emperor Tuan character, yes- he is determined and intelligent- but not very well versed in Westerner economics, politics, etc. Thus therein lies my need for an European character to help my Emperor during 1908 - 1920, and possibly 1920 - 1940.

Britain would definately not become involved with any communist nation at this point and would certainly have to cancel it's alliance with Germany if it were to go red. Many people in Britain view communism as a disease which steals from the middle and upper classes and gives power to the poor. Something which the government and most of the people of Britain are keen to steer the country well away from.

Snip.
There are plenty of pro-Western native Chinese, both Communist and nationalist, and Chiang Kai-Shek himself started a quasi-Fascist organization called "the Blue Shirts" when he was in power. I'd recommend researching into those. Most real Westerners (such as, oh . . . Hitler) would be too racist to help China anyway.
The pictures are very funny, though.
And LR, what you mean a "disease" that takes from the rich and gives to the poor? It is of course the cure. The disease is Kapitalizm! (tm), which takes from the poor and gives to the rich (and didn't Britain recognize the ARSDU? I know we bought your submarines . . .).
By the way, I'll be gone for most of the day, and perhaps much of the night as well. Just to confirm, the Time-Warp going through on Monday. I think most people know more-or-less what Russia's doing, but I'll write a skeletal outline for it anyway, and post it sometime over the weekend.
Oh, and in 1917 we change our name again (hopefully this one will stick, at least for a while) to the Union of Social-Democratic Republics, or USDR ("SSR" in Russian, which looks like "CCP").
The flag, also adopted in 1917 (and which will probably change), is the three bands of color you see today (top to bottom: white, blue, red), with a circular section in the middle, bounded by wheat-sheaves, containing a crossed hammer and scythe (not sickle) under a red star. If I manage to produce the art before the flag changes, I'll try to post around somewhere.

Thoughts about Romania:

1- Rebuilding the country's economy:
A-by attempting to forge a regional economic development and management organisation with Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and maybe Greece and Czechoslovakia.

B-Seek forign aid from both sociallist and western countries, preferably in accordance with the economic orginisation.

C-Pass some non-radical leftiest reforms such as allowing trade unions to form and strike and allow moderate land reform.

D-Hire economic advisors from western countries along with worker right advisors from sociallists to restructure the economy.

2-Ammending the constitution and repare the people for fair democratic parlamentary elections.

3-Allowing sociallist and communist parties to be active so long no illeagal activities are preformed.

4-Maintain neutrallity in the Communisim-Capatillisim argument while focusing on the development of the Balkan Region.

5-Limit the monarchy to a constitutional one -probably after the death of King Karl in 1914 and during the reign of king Ferdinand.

6-Attempt the formation of a regional defence treaty in the Balkan.

7-Restablish friendly relations with France and Italy.

7-Modernise the Armed forces with German equipment and training till german civil war afterwhich approach France or Italy.

8-Start up an airfrce for Recon and Message Dellivary purposes
(Air Mail Service)

9-On navy, focus on coastal defence (Subs) and convoy protection (Escort vessels)

10-Improve Infrastructure, Health and education.

-------------------------------------------
Events:
-King Karl Dies October 10, 1914, Prince Ferdinand is crowned king.
-Premier Cantacuzino Retires from Politics after resolving Besserabian dillimma, dies 1913.
-General Alexandru Averescu -war hero- to act as interim Prime minister till parlamentary elections take place.

Mexico thoughts:

1910: President Diaz dies, bringing civil war to a close as free elections are held. Madero will take power.

1910-1915: New government will slowly bring the economy up to speed by making unemployed join Labour divisions. which will pay them for building roads ect.

1914: Madero will be assassinated just after winning a second term in office. his deputy, Francisco Mendez will take over as President.

1915-1925: Navy will be favoured instead of army, army will be cut down to a highly professional force of 50,000 with 100,000 reservists. Navy will be increased dramatically.

VP: Just outlining contemporary British opinions of the time!

Britain will obviously recognise and work with Russia and Germany but the British people (those that have power anyway) would not be willing to mainatin a full alliance with a communist power, especially after it has deposed it's royal family. A lot of people in Britain at this time still like a good royal family and will not like to hear of a King murdered by his own people.

France and I have just set up a sort of European market

Britain will stay out of this common market for the time being in line with her increasing stance of neutrality. Also Britian feels that she will receive little back from Europe as she can source most of her goods from the Empire. Indeed admitting such a large market/economy to the xommon market would probably unsettle the situation and cause a sort of minor dperession with the governments recieving no tariffs on many goods.

OOC:Whats the Status of the Netherlands. Are they allied by anyone or anything and what do they have in the way of forces in the Dutch East Indies

Ok. To all interested in Hitler... for whatever reason:

He is now an architect, and a rather rich one at that. He will probably join the Junkers and thus die. So Nazi's won't exist much longer...

China: I think Chang-Kai Shek is a better idea for a fascist ruler, anyways. Makes more sense.

Everyone else: I am gonna get home around 9ish tonight (CST) so I will then begin research of German Marxism and then have a timeline out prolly sometime tommorow.

Also, since Zeppelin was a big-time aristocrat, he dies of a stroke after a Zeppelin Crashes and his second in command (and much more liberal; he wanted Zeppelins for peace not war) Dr Eckner will take over. So... there.

I believe that the Netherlands had good diplomatic ties with Britain, though I could be wrong. Anyone got a more informed opinion on the matter?

Thinking of invading the East Indies? I doubt Britain would like that much, the East Indies are very close to Australia and British (and American) Pacific territories.

the Netherlands is neutral, has a decent fleet to protect the Dutch East Indies (although not against the RN, USN or IJN if they want it bad enough), and a population in the Dutch East Indies that doesn't like them much (lookup World War II fall of the Dutch East Indies for details)

Great to know there's other Harry Turtledove fans! I was starting to think I was the only person who has ever heard of Harry Turtledove, or even the "Alternate History" genre of novels. :eek:

One of the best authors out there in my personel opnion. So many good books, so little time to read them.

Arabian Events 1908-1920

1908-Consitution ratified, new government elected. Work begins on Haifa/Beirut/Jerusalem railroad. Government begins giving out scholarships to the best and brightest ypung men of the rRepublic to attend European colleges and military academies.

1909-Mutual Defense treaty signed with the Ottoman Empire

1912-Army Fully Modernized, Haifa/Beirut/Jerusalem railroad completed.

1913-University of Jerusalem is founded and opens it's doors.

1915-First aircraft purchased by the Palestinian Army.

1918-First modern factory opens it's doors in Beirut

1920-Younger, more liberal Parliament elected. Government takes a shift towards granting women mroe rights. Equal Right's Groups begin to form.

Well my events I don't need to make a long read....

Denmark's Civil Stuff:
Decrease the Social Welfare given out by 50%
Increase the colonization of Greenland
Make the Virgin Islands a big port facility by 1921

Denmark's Military Items:
The building of A submarine yard by 1919
The production of small milimeter side arms by 1918

Denmark's Diplomatic Branch Junk:
And nothing much here except the continual stuff.

My unfinished events

1909
The Colonisation of parts of southern Argentina begins in full, it does not provide quite the interest that the WZO were anticipating, the majority of the Jewish population refuse to leave locations within Zion or simply refuse to take part in the mass migration of Zionism.

1910
Theodor Herzl leader of the WZO dies of pnuemonia in Vienna, Germany. Thousands turn up to his funeral in Jerusalem, including ZLF leader Rabbi Kook, it is a solem occasion which affects nearly every Jew on the planet.

1911
More colonists arrive in Argentina, touched by Herzl's actions, he is seen as a Martyr, the name Herzl begins to appear on every street in every colony.

1912
The Russian civil war pushes many Jews out of Russia, they flee either to nearby Germany, Palestine or to the colonies in Argentina.

1913
The ZLF having filled it's purpose, to see colonists freely enter Zion, collapses under pressure from the WZO, who see that the ZLF could give out the wrong impression of the Zionists.

1914
The Majority of Jews are housed in three locations, Germany, Argentina and Palestine, the WZO begins to send negotiators to Germany and Palestine in an attempt to secure more colonists.

1915
Settlement of Tel Aviv is proclaimed Capitol of Zionist administrated Argentina people flock to the fast growing City promoting the growth of several other minor towns around it.

1916
Fearing Communists seizing thier assests several Jews flee to Argentina, Rabbi Kook is the first to declare Europe "Unsafe for Jews" This prompts more to flee into the Argentinian colonies.

1917
TBA

1918
TBA

1919
TBA

1920
TBA

Decrease the Social Welfare given out by 50%

My God, that's alot of welfare. I won't be surprised if you're forced to levy more taxes too.

I will have to levy massive amounts of taxes, too, as my social welfare budget is 0% of the total.

well it is still alotmore welfare than anybody else gives out.

just so everyone knows spain will be a Monarcho-Syndicalist government. I made it up...but its like haveing a monarchy in place along with syndicalism...not quite socialism or communism but just about as left

1910
Theodor Herzl leader of the WZO dies of pnuemonia in Vienna, Hungary....

Whoa whoa whoa! Vienna Hungary?!? I am enraged that you even mistook the Great German city of VIENNA to be HUNGARIAN! A million good German men didn't die so some foolish jew would even consider Vienna to remain even within the loosest grip of Hapsburg oppression. :mad:

OK, here's my attempt at a timeline:

1907: German Social Democratic Party reappears, begins protesting war.

1908: Kaiser begins selling much of his power to businessmen, as well as assists Ottoman payment of debts. GSDP begins protesting capitalization of Germany.

1909: GSDP begins protests in Berlin, army used to break up.

1910: Kaiser supports Whites in Russia, army begins supplying Whites. GSDP demands workers' rights, then banned by Kaiser.

1911: Berlin-Baghdad rail complete. Many workers laid off. Protests begin. More forceful repressions, arrests.

1912: Steel Workers strike in Berlin. Army used, kills 10 men. Marxism makes a huge comeback in North.

1913: Series of brutal strikes in Rhineland as Reds win in Russia. Poison gas used on some, support for Kaiser wanes.

1914: Assassination of Crown Prince. Severe repressions for socialists, communists, protestants. Rhineland revolts, declares German Worker's Republic.

1914-1919: German civil war. Prussia, Bavaria, Austria vs Rhineland, Hanover, Brandenburg. Tanks, Zeppelins with planes introduced. Planes with machine guns, bombs introduced. Guerilla tactics used. Hopefully Russian reds will help.

1919: German Worker's Republic Established.

Well, that's my best shot. Critique away.

(GB Chatzy?)

I can live with that Germany... works more in line with historical German trends

Does this mean the rest of us can start making tanks after 1920?

No...

Everyone! Join us on Chatzy :)

Does this mean the rest of us can start making tanks after 1920?

yes, although the French probably don't call them panzers, and will have them in very small numbers, as will the British, Americans and Russians... after all, they make tractors and armored cars, and after seeing tanks, will consider them potentially useful.

the Americans will call them land cruisers, probably so would the British, Russians call them something long with lots of syllables, and so do the French

Can I be Serbia or Albania?

If not I would like to be Greece...

1910
Theodor Herzl leader of the WZO dies of pnuemonia in Vienna, Germany. Thousands turn up to his funeral in Jerusalem, including ZLF leader Rabbi Kook, it is a solem occasion which affects nearly every Jew on the planet.

Happy now Parthini?

Your timeline looks pretty good. For leaders, I'd suggest looking up Karl Liebknecht, Rosa Luxemburg, Clara Zetkin (who was a personal friend of Lenin, too bad in this timeline), and Franz Mehring. For accommodators and other figures in the SPD ("Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands," or "SPD," a little confusingly for an English speaker, is their standardized abbreviation) I'd recommend looking at Karl Kautsky and Friedrich Ebert.
For the German Civil War, the Russians will definitely help--like I say, that was always Trotsky's great dream and he'll probably come to personally oversee it. I could kill him there, but I won't (he's too interesting a figure to lose in Time Warp), and in fact he'll return to Russia covered in glory. They'll invent a new decoration just for him, too: Hero of the Revolution.
One last quibble. That first big strike in 1912 should probably kill more than 10 people. Back in these days, strikers got killed by the dozens all the time. You had to get into the hundreds before anybody'd really notice. That does happen quick, though (poison gas! nice touch).
All in all, looks very good.

Denmark of course aks for the Germans to keep the poisen gas inside their borders or they will make FLK (fliks) Funny-Looking-Kids. Also Denmark will of course support the Kaiser (denmark likes peace).

One of the best authors out there in my personel opnion. So many good books, so little time to read them.

You read his stuff too?

I believe that the Netherlands had good diplomatic ties with Britain, though I could be wrong. Anyone got a more informed opinion on the matter?

Thinking of invading the East Indies? I doubt Britain would like that much, the East Indies are very close to Australia and British (and American) Pacific territories.


OOC: unless Japan is able to sweeten the pot some and convince everyone to stay out. You know make it worth everyones while.

1908 – First Duma convened; enacts a number of reforms in constitutional law, business law, land ownership, and the military organization, and signs on to (most if not all of) the Berlin Conference; the Tsar, recovered from his wounds received at the siege of Budapest, reverses nearly all major legislation and dismisses Prime Minister Witte and dissolves the Duma

1909 – Second Duma convened early in the year, dissolved immediately; Third Duma summoned in December, Prime Minister Durnovo assassinated, Third Duma dissolved

1910 – Third Duma re-convenes in Moscow in the name of "the Sovereign People;" Duma forced to put down Communist coup by Lenin and Stalin; open warfare between the Tsarists and Duma begins in summer, beginning with mass slaughter of Jews (and some Muslims) by White forces

1911 – Nikolai II risks and loses all in an attack on Moscow; escaping, he is caught and beheaded by Lithuanian partisans; the Red Army under Trotsky captures St. Petersburg (renamed Petrograd), and after some debate, the Duma releases the Tsar’s family to exile in Germany

1912 – White uprisings and attempted coups, supported by Germany, continue throughout the year, but all are quashed; the Third Duma recovenes itself as the Constituent Assembly

1913 – The Empire of All the Russias formally becomes the All-Russian Social-Democratic Union, a Leftist federal republic and commonwealth consisting of five People’s republics and fourteen Autonomous Nationalities, with its capital at Moscow

Suffrage is universal and discrimination in any form is banned, while the constitution explicitly requires separation of church and state

The new Assembly of People’s Deputies enacts "market socialist" reforms in agrarian and industrial policy; these measures place most agriculture, retail trade, and small-scale light industry under private ownership and management while the state assumes command (though not necessarily ownership – that usually goes to the workers, but in some cases remains private or partially-so) of heavy industry, mining, transport, banking, and foreign trade

(probably) The Gold Standard is dropped for domestic commerce, and a new currency, the tselkovyi is introduced; prices are allowed to follow market forces for the most part, with the State intervening to establish controls when fluctuations threaten economic policy of modernizing agriculture and encouraging industrial expansion

The peasantry are allowed to own and cultivate their own land, while paying taxes to the state

Massive labor-intensive public works projects are mandated, especially for the transportation and energy infrastructure

An Army and Navy Bill are passed concerning military reforms, emphasizing mobile heavy artillery and submarine warfare, phasing out cavalry except in the southwest and central Asian theaters; note that the command structures of the constituent People’s Republics are nominally independent, although subject to the Common Security Council of the Union (think something like NATO)

1914 – ARSDU materially supports German Marxist uprisings under Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg

The ARSDU concludes a trade compact with the Socialist government of Brazil, and expands the Union Merchant Marine

1915 – In September, the assembly narrowly passes a declaration of war against the German government, and Commissar Trotsky, assuming the title of Supreme Marshal, leads Union forces to intervene in the German Civil War

Milyukov (a Constitutional Democrat, rather than a Socialist) formally resigns as foreign minister in protest, and is replaced by Lev Kamenev, a former Bolshevik but Trotsky’s brother-in-law and an opponent of Lenin’s failed coup

Economics Commissar Bukharin continues to expand the domain of the military-industrial complex in order to support the Revolution in Germany

1916 – First Union elections in October; few Rightist parties are willing to concede the legitimacy of democracy, so correspondingly few compete; moreover, the Revolution in Germany makes Socialism look like the wave of the future, and a surprising amount of prosperity has trickled down to the common people under market socialism; the center-left Constitutional Democrats and the center-right Union Party therefore lose seats to Leftists

1917 – In January, the ARSDU formally changes name again to Union of Social-Democratic Republics, or USDR (SDU or Socialist Union for short; Brits probably call us "Soshies," while Americans would still call us Russians, or Reds), and adopts a flag (red, blue, and white, with crossed black hammer and scythe in the center under a red star, bordered by sheaves of wheat)

1917-1919 – To support the German Civil War, there is continued expansion of military-industrial complex, and the infrastructure to support it

1919 – With victory for Socialism in the West, Marshal Trotsky returns to Russia covered in glory; a new decoration is created for him, "Hero of the Revolution."

As always, comments and constructive criticisms are appreciated. Also, I know there are foreign relations I've forgotten. For instance, we're helping the Ottomans rebuild their country, and seeking trade relations with all our neighbors. This is, after all, a skeleton.

Spooty: Yes I am very happy :)

Amestria: Tg the founder of this thread.

Denmark: So, if the Kaiser "accidentally" gassed parts of Denmark would they be more willing to support the Reds? ;)

1919-1920:

France refuses to recognize the new German government and in a spasm of fear and parania begins cracking down on sociliasts and communists inside it's own borders and begins building fortifications along the Belguim-Burgundy borders. They also offer political asylum for all people fleeing the new Communist Germany.

Events in Burgundy, 1908-1920 Revised

Late 1908: Constitution of the Grand Duchy is complete. The Grand Duke of Luxembourg will go on to be the Royalty of Burgundy; the Chamber of Deputies expanded to 120 member body; Council of State expanded to 50 members. The administrative capital remains in Luxembourg City, while judicial capital relocated to Nancy.

February, 1909: Constitution ratified.
June: Alsace-Lorraine and Luxembourg political parties unite:
Christian Social Party: Christian democratic party, dominated by Roman Catholics Democratic Party: Liberal party Union for Social Democracy: Social democratic Conservative Party: Right-wing/nationalist Communist Party: Far-left socialist/revolutionary

1910: Parliamentary elections; wide victories for CSP and DP, less so for USD. Paul Eyschen continues as Prime Minister under CSP

1911: Five largest steel companies in Burgundy unite to form Arbed Incorporated; wide scale clean up in Alsace-Lorraine.

1912: Grand Duke William IV dies; Marie-Adélaïde ascends to the throne.

1913: Parliament approves education reform, appropriating funds for universities throughout Burgundy, particularly in Alsace-Lorraine region.

Burgundy also recognizes the ARSDU.

1914: Military reform; three infantry divisions of part-time National Guard established, of 12,000 men each. No standing army; only a small cadre of professional soldiers for training.

1915: Parliamentary elections: CSP wins majority, with Jean-Claude Weber chosen as CSP Prime Minister. Following German Civil War and spread of Marxism, the Conservative Party beats out the DP for Opposition.

A bill that would establish one standing infantry division is defeated, as hopes remain high that the world will enforce Burgundy's neutrality.

1916: Parliament passes large scale banking reform, increasing secrecy in bank accounts

1917: Large labor reforms passed: minimum wage, safety regulations, and union meetings with government.

1918: Arbed becomes largest single employer in Burgundy

1919-1920: Constitution amended to allow universal suffrage; Burgundy protests French fortifications on border

Britain will likely cotton on to tanks shortly after German useage if they are effective. Britain would have observers on the Kaiser's side as we are technically allies (though this will be dropped when the reds win).

I think i'll call my tanks "landships" i've always liked the name and they were originally built and operated by the Royal Navy.