NationStates Jolt Archive

I have no problems with Safehaven becoming Russia as long as no one forgets about Australia's construction points or their troops. Perhaps Malkyer could control them until Safehaven returns?

I have no problem taking over Australia, at least for the short term, provided I can keep up with South Africa as well. I mean, Britain and the US are effectively running Canada and Morocco, respectively.

Alright guys. Ive been grounded as we just got our progress reports and one of my grades was not so hot. Im going to say that Jensai has full contgrol of anything my army does in the war and expect them to agree to any Pact decissions. I will be on sporadically whenever my parents are not home or Im at a friends house. Expect this to last anywhere from two to four wekks. Sorry, I swear Ill get my grades up!

what reasons? Enlighten us....

first, because several discoveries in physics have not been made, secondly, because it will really unbalance the game, and has a tendancy to overshadow all RPs that nukes have showed up in, and thirdly, the economic cost is such that only the really big powers can even afford to launch a substained nuclear research program, fourthly, because the historical circumstances that created a regime so evil that America felt forced to develop them, and European physicists fled to America as well has not happened, and finally, Sharina, Vas, myself, and others have all said no nukes until the 1950s.

Alright guys. Ive been grounded as we just got our progress reports and one of my grades was not so hot. Im going to say that Jensai has full contgrol of anything my army does in the war and expect them to agree to any Pact decissions. I will be on sporadically whenever my parents are not home or Im at a friends house. Expect this to last anywhere from two to four wekks. Sorry, I swear Ill get my grades up!


OK> I'll do my best.


ARgh....Now I have to do Spain's builds. GB, will you take pity on me and help me with themfor the first time?

Alright guys. Ive been grounded as we just got our progress reports and one of my grades was not so hot. Im going to say that Jensai has full contgrol of anything my army does in the war and expect them to agree to any Pact decissions. I will be on sporadically whenever my parents are not home or Im at a friends house. Expect this to last anywhere from two to four wekks. Sorry, I swear Ill get my grades up!

as a parent with two teenagers, and another who was one and is now a Marine I am with your parents on this one.. as a player, my sympathies

I'll probably be returning in a week or two. I doubt that I'll be able to be as active as I would like, or as I once was, but I should at least be able to resume my various duties as Moderator and Supreme Leader of the Revolution.

Just so everybody knows.

yayz0rz!

So I take it you won't be living like a troll under a bridge then? I certainly hope not!

Lesser Ribenia, if Malkver controls Australia, then who will control South Africa?


I meant that he could pehaps take on both roles if he feels up to it. It's only for a short time anyway (hopefully!).

EDIT: Ah, I see Malkyer's already agreed to it anyway.

VP: Woohoo, i'm glad your circumstances have changed somewhat!

Don't worry too much about keeping up with events, i'm sure we're all just glad that you've managed to get back on your feet.

I eagerly look forward to your return.

Jolt is being a joy to work with at the moment (heavy, heavy sarcasm here)

I am posting as fast as Jolt will allow, so if I fail to respond, its likely because I either can't find your post, can't reply to your post, or I am trying to find the information I need to reply to your post.

(lots of cussing here)

anyway, expect something really major next turn (July August) and I approved what will happen with Sharina.

Anyway, I am part way through the May - June turn, and Italy is still hanging on, the only French colonies that remain are French West and parts of Northwest Africa, and the Germans, French, Spanish, Czechs, and Yugoslavs have destroyed the cream of their armies battering their way into Italy.

Of course the Italians have suffered as badly, and only the fact that other Allied troops and planes have arrived keeps Italy in the war.

The Russians suffer some pinpricks in Siberia by the way, and assuming Jolt will let me, I will post what happens at Sea and in Central Asia at some point in the next 24 hours.

Brazil, you can have your civil war end at some point soon, feel free to post (assuming Jolt will let you) that it ends.

Hungary, I know you were wanting to have a civil war, I wish you luck with posting. Wish me luck in trying to find it to referee it.

Hopefully Jolt will get their shit together soon.

Now that VP is back...

I have to ask t3h moderators one thing; As some people here know, I am thinking of having a "Civil War" so to speak in India, with Communists on one side and Nationalists(or supporters of Great Britain, if the thing is to occur during this war) on the other. I have it all set up, but Lesser Ribenia apparently does not believe there could be a communist revolution. Lemme show you some stuff in my defence.

First of all, he said that Communism couldn't take root in India. That is quite false. As some of you know, the state of West Bengal is currently ruled by the communists, and they have substantial power in the statess I put would fight for the revolution. Also, anti-British sentiment in India was always high, and this current war (which most Indians see as Imperialist war-mongering, seeing how Britain isn't directly affected and the U.S. was violating the sovereign territory of another nations) has done little to help. It is not at all far-fetched that the traditionally-more-anti-british-than-most-other-areas south and east would side with the communists, at least as long as it took to get G.B. out of India.

Of course, it is your decision.

Now that VP is back...

I have to ask t3h moderators one thing; As some people here know, I am thinking of having a "Civil War" so to speak in India, with Communists on one side and Nationalists(or supporters of Great Britain, if the thing is to occur during this war) on the other. I have it all set up, but Lesser Ribenia apparently does not believe there could be a communist revolution. Lemme show you some stuff in my defence.

First of all, he said that Communism couldn't take root in India. That is quite false. As some of you know, the state of West Bengal is currently ruled by the communists, and they have substantial power in the statess I put would fight for the revolution. Also, anti-British sentiment in India was always high, and this current war (which most Indians see as Imperialist war-mongering, seeing how Britain isn't directly affected and the U.S. was violating the sovereign territory of another nations) has done little to help. It is not at all far-fetched that the traditionally-more-anti-british-than-most-other-areas south and east would side with the communists, at least as long as it took to get G.B. out of India.

Of course, it is your decision.

at best, I can see India going the neo socialist route they have done historically. In this timeline, India has considerable self rule, as a Dominion under th British Empire. In addition, the Rajahs have considerable clout as well, and the war directly ended almost immediately the French colonies that were left over in southeast India, and the Dominion of India acquired political control of those regions.

Then the Russians invaded Afghanistan, the same Russia that annexed Central Asia in the 19th Century, and has been the boogie man for the ruling classes (both Indian and English) for the last century, confirming the fear that the Bear is coming. Then the whole Socialist facing down warmongers was severaly undermined when the entire Socialist world invaded Italy, throwing away the lives of hundreds of thousands on both sides.

The US made a very liberal peace with Brazil as well.

Also, historically, the Communist party was irrelevent to the Indian independence movement. A far greater problem was tension between Hindu and Moslem (Jiddah and Nehru), not to mention those pesky Sikhs.

So at this point what exactly do the Communists have to offer India? The under castes might buy in, but the upper caste Hindus certainly aren't going to, and neither are the Moslems or Sikhs. Religion is far, far more important in India than idealogy.

I can see a civil war between Hindu and Moslem long before any possibility of a communist uprising. Read the book "Freedom at Midnight" as a good start to the Indian independence movement, or watch "Gandhi"

GB, I been wondering what's reforms are still needed in the Ottoman Empire that will kept together for another 80 years....I am belive I did everything, but I am not too sure.

GB, I been wondering what's reforms are still needed in the Ottoman Empire that will kept together for another 80 years....I am belive I did everything, but I am not too sure.

I think if you can hold things together another 20 years you might have a real chance... telegram me and I can offer some suggestions

at best, I can see India going the neo socialist route they have done historically. In this timeline, India has considerable self rule, as a Dominion under th British Empire. In addition, the Rajahs have considerable clout as well, and the war directly ended almost immediately the French colonies that were left over in southeast India, and the Dominion of India acquired political control of those regions.

Then the Russians invaded Afghanistan, the same Russia that annexed Central Asia in the 19th Century, and has been the boogie man for the ruling classes (both Indian and English) for the last century, confirming the fear that the Bear is coming. Then the whole Socialist facing down warmongers was severaly undermined when the entire Socialist world invaded Italy, throwing away the lives of hundreds of thousands on both sides.

The US made a very liberal peace with Brazil as well.

Also, historically, the Communist party was irrelevent to the Indian independence movement. A far greater problem was tension between Hindu and Moslem (Jiddah and Nehru), not to mention those pesky Sikhs.

So at this point what exactly do the Communists have to offer India? The under castes might buy in, but the upper caste Hindus certainly aren't going to, and neither are the Moslems or Sikhs. Religion is far, far more important in India than idealogy.

I can see a civil war between Hindu and Moslem long before any possibility of a communist uprising. Read the book "Freedom at Midnight" as a good start to the Indian independence movement, or watch "Gandhi"

I've read much on the history of India, thank you very much, including "A New History of India" by Stanley Wolpert, and "Jinnah of Pakistan" by the same author. I have also lived a substantial part of my life on the Indian subcontinent as well.

Also, I was planning for the impoverished under-castes to rebel, as well as areas where the modern communist party has power(and a few extra states, seeing how the economy of India sucked even more back then). Of course, I won't commit suicide If I can't have my rebellion, but I just thought it would be pretty neat.

However, remember that during the Second World War, an Indian (Sandra Bose, methinks) joined the facists solely because he wanted independence. The burning wish for independence burns brighter than sectarian division (you may bring up the partition to argue, but the only way Pakistan could get off the ground was because the British kept fueling it).

Anyhoo, I'm going away for 6 days starting tommorrow, so don't expect any major action on my part (Although the only "action" going on now in India is a bunch of people dying of influenza).

I've read much on the history of India, thank you very much, including "A New History of India" by Stanley Wolpert, and "Jinnah of Pakistan" by the same author. I have also lived a substantial part of my life on the Indian subcontinent as well.

Also, I was planning for the impoverished under-castes to rebel, as well as areas where the modern communist party has power(and a few extra states, seeing how the economy of India sucked even more back then). Of course, I won't commit suicide If I can't have my rebellion, but I just thought it would be pretty neat.

However, remember that during the Second World War, an Indian (Sandra Bose, methinks) joined the facists solely because he wanted independence. The burning wish for independence burns brighter than sectarian division (you may bring up the partition to argue, but the only way Pakistan could get off the ground was because the British kept fueling it).

Anyhoo, I'm going away for 6 days starting tommorrow, so don't expect any major action on my part (Although the only "action" going on now in India is a bunch of people dying of influenza).

Chandra Bosse did indeed collaborate with the Japanese, and the Germans (who shipped over to Japan via submarine). But I strongly disagree with your assertion that the modern communist party in India is significant enough to provide the needed regional or national movement to revolution in 1925, especially since India does have significantly more independence is this timeline than in the historical one, and equal status to the Australians and Canadians, which would be a major positive impact on the Indian view of the British.

In addition, unless you studied Indian History in India AND somewhere else, such as Britain or the United States, you are not going to have an objective view of Indian History. For example, official Indian History books have a tendancy to go into great detail over British atrocities in the Indian Mutiny and gloss over or ignore Indian atrocities in the Indian Mutiny (which were equally horrific or worse in many cases). I have read the two books you cite, and found some substantial flaws in them as well. Considering them the only source on India would be like considering Howard Zinn's Peoples History of the United States the only source on American history. Both of serious issues regarding bias, and omission of relevent facts to make their point.

At this point, the most important figure in India who wants the British completely out is Gandhi, and his position would have been seriously undercut by a British move to grant India Dominion status in 1920, which has occured in this timeline. Most of the remaining Indian leaders of the historical independence movement are too junior in age and status to make an appearance yet, which leaves the stage wide open for the more tradional Indian leaders to remain in power, and the Indian Civil Service is primarily Indian even at this point, so a communist claim that they are being exploited by Imperialists is on shaky ground in this timeline. There is also not a huge or proportionally large or even sizeable numerically number of proleteriat in India at this point. Something that is not true today, and a significant reason why Communism has grown post Indepedence in historical India.

So a Communist Uprising in India is not plausable in my opinion at this time.

Chandra Bosse did indeed collaborate with the Japanese, and the Germans (who shipped over to Japan via submarine). But I strongly disagree with your assertion that the modern communist party in India is significant enough to provide the needed regional or national movement to revolution in 1925, especially since India does have significantly more independence is this timeline than in the historical one, and equal status to the Australians and Canadians, which would be a major positive impact on the Indian view of the British.

In addition, unless you studied Indian History in India AND somewhere else, such as Britain or the United States, you are not going to have an objective view of Indian History. For example, official Indian History books have a tendancy to go into great detail over British atrocities in the Indian Mutiny and gloss over or ignore Indian atrocities in the Indian Mutiny (which were equally horrific or worse in many cases). I have read the two books you cite, and found some substantial flaws in them as well. Considering them the only source on India would be like considering Howard Zinn's Peoples History of the United States the only source on American history. Both of serious issues regarding bias, and omission of relevent facts to make their point.

At this point, the most important figure in India who wants the British completely out is Gandhi, and his position would have been seriously undercut by a British move to grant India Dominion status in 1920, which has occured in this timeline. Most of the remaining Indian leaders of the historical independence movement are too junior in age and status to make an appearance yet, which leaves the stage wide open for the more tradional Indian leaders to remain in power, and the Indian Civil Service is primarily Indian even at this point, so a communist claim that they are being exploited by Imperialists is on shaky ground in this timeline. There is also not a huge or proportionally large or even sizeable numerically number of proleteriat in India at this point. Something that is not true today, and a significant reason why Communism has grown post Indepedence in historical India.

So a Communist Uprising in India is not plausable in my opinion at this time.

I have also extensively studied American, Polish, and Carthaginian History, as well as WWII and WWI, and I have a decent amount of knowledge on Rome, Pakistan (which could be grouped with India, but they differ on key issues with India), and Britain.

Anyhoo, I guess I'll just have to wait for it then. My Uber-capitalist reforms will get a revolution sooner or later (seeing how I plan to keep the Muslims in India), so I can just plan and plan.

However, I would like to point something out: Just because they have been given semi-autonomy doesn't mean they wouldn't like a full separation.

just a quick question.


wtf is everyone in this game's obsession with having a red revolt???

i mean seriously?

you can have fun rping without trying to turn your nation commie.

I definetly can see some of these nations going commie (France, Italy, Russia, Germany, and the balkans)

but everywhere else wants to do it too?????

oh well its your country run it how you want. I mean where are the Facists and tin pot dictators. At least we still have a few Kingdoms and Empires running around but come on lets have some variety.

oh btw vas welcome back, thanks for the gunnery practice :-p

just a quick question.


wtf is everyone in this game's obsession with having a red revolt???

i mean seriously?

you can have fun rping without trying to turn your nation commie.

I definetly can see some of these nations going commie (France, Italy, Russia, Germany, and the balkans)

but everywhere else wants to do it too?????

oh well its your country run it how you want. I mean where are the Facists and tin pot dictators. At least we still have a few Kingdoms and Empires running around but come on lets have some variety.

Heh- I'm proud to be the odd-man out. China *did* go commie in RL, but I'm determined to have China not go commie in this timeline. ;)

just a quick question.


wtf is everyone in this game's obsession with having a red revolt???

i mean seriously?

you can have fun rping without trying to turn your nation commie.

I definetly can see some of these nations going commie (France, Italy, Russia, Germany, and the balkans)

but everywhere else wants to do it too?????

oh well its your country run it how you want. I mean where are the Facists and tin pot dictators. At least we still have a few Kingdoms and Empires running around but come on lets have some variety.

I'm just BORED!

The Red Revolt seemed the most possible thing, that's all.

I mean where are the Facists and tin pot dictators?

Give me about twenty years.

Well my nation was already looking Red, I just needed an excuse, but then i suddenly flip flopped and went Blue.

Criminy.

If I'm going to lose a war I want to do it myself. I'm coming back on a "part-time" basis, effective immediately, as both Russia and as Moderator. By part-time, I mean like a post or two a day. But things are going badly enough I don't feel I can sit idly by.

And no, I probably won't be living under a bridge after all. Thanks to everyone for all your concerns.

Things going badly, losing the war? Were not exactly losing at all. BUt w/e, welcome back, wheres this put me?

Things going badly, losing the war? Were not exactly losing at all. BUt w/e, welcome back, wheres this put me?
Presumably Down Under, unless you want to sub as Spain or take over Burgundy or Holland or one of the Scandinavians. Or a North African nativist movement, or something.

I'd hardly say you're going to lose the war. The Italian Army is no longer an effective force (until reinforcements reach it) and you've made in roads into Italy. Plus you've overun Afghanistan and are poised for an invasion of India. All that you've lost so far are colonial possessions and the navy, which you must have anticipated anyway. No Pact soil has yet been invaded and you're fighting on your own terms. So I wouldn't say this war's over by a long stretch!

Anyway, once again welcome back VP. I have no objections to seeing you return as the Union/Russia.

Maybe I'll take Italy for the time being.

Updated military thread to show where major forces are located, and the losses taken so far. Interestingly enough, except for France, Yugoslavia, Czechslovakia, Germany and Italy, most nations suffered far more from the Flu panademic than from the war. Flu deaths were not included in the war losses posted.

I am still updating the LTA forces, but the Pact forces are completed. Forces are as of July 1, 1925.

Expect lots of bloodshed today and tomorrow

Maybe I'll take Italy for the time being.

I would suggest the Netherlands, Sweden or Burgundy. All three have a possibility of entering the war at this point, and have reasonably good tech, strong military forces (although I will need to post Sweden and Norway soon I suppose), and could also act as a mediator at some point realistically (unless someone invades them or they pick a side an join in).

Vas, I need to know what the Poles are thinking at this point. I have my theories based on Polish nationalism and desire for return to nationhood, but I want your views about that in this timeline. The US is exploring options regarding them, and a substantial Polish immigrant community is in the US.

I am also interested in what the Catalonians and Basques are thinking. Historically and in present day, both have agitated for statehood (extremists) or substantial autonomy in the framework of Spain.

eh, I dunno, don't wanna be the Dutch because I'd be to tempted to have the go Pact so Australia could take the DEI. If not Italy then I guess I'll go back to good old Australia.

GB check tg's

Vas, I need to know what the Poles are thinking at this point. I have my theories based on Polish nationalism and desire for return to nationhood, but I want your views about that in this timeline. The US is exploring options regarding them, and a substantial Polish immigrant community is in the US.

I am also interested in what the Catalonians and Basques are thinking. Historically and in present day, both have agitated for statehood (extremists) or substantial autonomy in the framework of Spain.
Poles in the US in this timeline are probably about as representative of Polish sentiment as Cuban exiles are in ours. Poles (many of them admittedly Jewish) are very well represented in the present Union government. Frankly, I don't see a lot of ethnic strife.

The Catalonians and Basques I'll have to look into. Philanchez never mentioned any specific policy initiatives with regard to national minorities, so I'll base my commentary on their sympathies as expressed during the Civil War after I've done a little research.

Some other comments.

In general, I think the only nations where this War is at all popular are Germany and Japan, the former because it gives a chance to avenge themselves upon the United States for its humiliations, and the latter because they're salivating over the possibility of acquiring a land empire.

In the United States, the usual half-baked expasnionists and chest-thumpers will love it, of course (it's against COMMUNISTS!), and the usual odd-but-surprisingly-large assortment of intellectual dilletantes and disaffected urban poor will regard it as a morally bankrupt imperial adventure for no legitimate purpose (whistling innocently . . .) - I don't see any strikes or uprisings or even much in the way of important demonstrations as long as the victories continue, but dissent should be vociferous; Italy ought to be pretty shaky by now, since one must remember the King declared war on the Pact without necessity, and there are still plenty of Italian Leftists who could viably see the Pact's invasion as being brought down upon Italy by the King; the Russians wouldn't be so much divided as mush as stoic and cynical about it; the French are probably passionate and confused, with each segment of their political body blaming some other segment for either the War itself or their loses in some ridiculous and fundamentally Gallic round-robin of j'accuserie; and while the British would be less abashed by their own warmongering and naked imperialism than the Americans, but their working classes, especially the Celtic ones, are capable of harboring a much powerful and effective resentment for an idiotic war over a couple of insignificant North African ports - nothing major aside from the occasional bar brawl in Soho and maybe a strike or two in Wales and Scotland - again, at least as long as the victories continue.

The minor belligerents for the most part probably regard the war as an opportunity to expand their influence, so it's unpopularity isn't likely to be much of a problem in places like South Africa or even Yugoslavia. The Spanish would be tired, but indignant (probably more-or-less like the Italians).

In my own opinion, I should that collaborators would be found in various strengths everywhere (including, ahem, Italy), but that uprisings and other civil disorders ought to be entirely off-limits, chiefly for purposes of game balance, but also because actual uprisings rarely occur in time of war.

As Moderator, for instance, I'd say that in Algeria the Allies could work with either the natives or the colons. I can't see them working with each other. The colons, too, would probably want to declare themselves a French government-in-exile (the Fifth Republic?), and would collaborate eagerly. The Algerians however are unlikely to be friendly to the Allies (despite the Moroccan example, the Allies are just more self-interested white people), and would most likely form a Partisan resistance (not so much pro-French as anti-LTA and pro-Independence, or even pro-Arab) after a few months of increasing tensions between occupiers and occupied. That's my take.

I'll look into India. I'm leaning GB's way, but there may be some other factors that have been overlooked. In general, however, I still think collaborators and no uprisings is the best way to go for both fairness and realism.

I have finished posting everyones' forces... which now means I can go about destroying those forces (chuckle).. seriously, major combat later today.

Major fronts will be Iberia, Atlantic, Med, Italy, Siberia, and Pakistan unless someone has other plans, which they better send to me right away.

Welcome back, VP.

Glad to see you were able to get your act together and be able to come back and enjoy NS and E20. :)

I posted the latest in my Chinese thread.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9817313&postcount=126

So, anytime you're ready with your advisors, GB, let me know. :)

GB, I am assuming that when my two corp are finishing, that they will travel to Spain? I thought I was to be taking part in that?

Oh and what happened to my fleets?! ;)

a quick apology... sorry I was going to quit... put it down to frustration.

I will continue to try and get us all through the war

I'm glad you've changed your mind GB. Woohoo, time for some more war...

'Tis me, Comrade Fluffywuffy/Italy, returning to post once again! I haven't been gone long (maybe a week) but I've had lots of crap to do at school, such as projects. Right around Halloween I'll briefly leave again, as I am going to South Carolina for a day or so. At least that's the plan.

I have another event of note: I got a call from the pharmacy earlier this week. Someone has been using my personal information to try and buy steroids. Considering that we've had past trouble with identity thieves (who happen to have robbed us of our social security cards and birth certificates, plus some military IDs, last year)

'Tis me, Comrade Fluffywuffy/Italy, returning to post once again! I haven't been gone long (maybe a week) but I've had lots of crap to do at school, such as projects. Right around Halloween I'll briefly leave again, as I am going to South Carolina for a day or so. At least that's the plan.

I have another event of note: I got a call from the pharmacy earlier this week. Someone has been using my personal information to try and buy steroids. Considering that we've had past trouble with identity thieves (who happen to have robbed us of our social security cards and birth certificates, plus some military IDs, last year)

Really? I had no idea identity thieving can happen like that. I thought all they had to do is know your social security number or get your certificates or something?

Technically, they were not identity thieves. They were just the garden variety thieves that broke into our car, grabbed all they could, and ran off. One of the suitcases they grabbed just so happened to have almost all of our personal information, birth certificates, mortgage papers, credit cards, etc. Supposably one of our SS numbers was used to apply for a drivers license, though they never caught the bastard(s). I would like them to, so that I can personally torture the bastard(s) to death.

Of the various things contributing to the general acrimony of late there has been a debate in particular between Galveston Bay and myself regarding whether Burgundy would allow the transfer of German troops across their territory in support of France in exchange for economic concessions. Our difference of opinion has settled along partisan lines, though of course both of us see ourselves as honest scholars, and given that we are unlikely to see eye to eye on the matter I am referring the issue to Sharina for a final ruling.

It is my own contention that Burgundy, essentially, risks nothing in exchnage for accommodating the Pact request, and equally stands nothing to gain by refusal to do so. There are unlikely to be, for instance, any Allied reprisals for allowing transfer, whereas by refusal, even if the Germans didn't outright invade, Burgundy would have alienated two powerful neighbors, possibly permanently. It seems to me that a landlocked state without Switzerland's natural defenses would be unlikely to engage in that kind of brinksmanship without good reason.

Good reason, of course, is supplied by Galveston Bay's unilateral decision that the Junkers and French Droitistes found a happy home in Burgundy. In game terms, this is pretty unfair, effectively declaring a hostile (or at least antagonistic) state in the very heart of Pact-held territory. He makes decent arguments for his position, but I haven't seen the posts where the old Burgundian player invited the Junkers to Burgundy, and those would be crucial for supporting this contention. I still have my doubts that a bunch of warmongering old Prussian aristocrats would really be all that welcome in a country they bore responsibility for wrecking during the first Great War, but if the Grand Duke wanted them, the Grand Duke wanted them. I'd like to see the evidence, though.

Galveston Bay has also brought up the neutral behavior of various states during our own World Wars. Yes, Belgium stood up to Germany twice, but only when they had both France and England at their backs. The Netherlands is impossible to use as a model, since they were occupied twice as well. And in any event, those German forces were invasion forces, not defensive ones, and that kind of thing makes a difference.

Switzerland I regard as a special case. For one thing, it's been independent for five hundred years - far longer than Burgundy or Belgium. For another they have the Alps. This makes them both highly defensible and unattractive to would-be conquerors.

Galveston Bay has referred to Sweden's behavior during the Second World War as an example, so I quote from the Encyclopaedia Britannica

On the outbreak of war in 1939 Sweden declared itself neutral. When the Soviet Union shortly afterward launched an attack on Finland, Sweden gave Finland aid in the form of vast material supplies and a volunteer corps. On the other hand, Sweden, in common with Norway, refused the Allies' request to march through Sweden in order to intervene in the war. After the German occupation of Denmark and Norway in 1940, however, Sweden was forced by German military superiority to allow the transit of German troops through Sweden to Norway. Many Norwegians and Danes sought refuge in Sweden, the majority of them with the intention of fleeing to England. When Germany attacked the Soviet Union in June 1941, transit facilities were demanded for a division of German troops from Norway to Finland, and Sweden acquiesced under threat of military reprisals. In 1943 the agreement concerning the transit of German troops was revoked. Toward the end of the war, Norwegian and Danish police were trained and equipped in Sweden. Immediately after the war, Sweden was granted membership in the United Nations, without having relinquished its principally neutral foreign policy.

In other words, for three years Sweden allowed German troops access to Swedish soil, despite the proximity of the Soviet Union (far closer to Sweden than Britain is to Burgundy), and only revoked that agreement when Soviet power became more of threat than German.

Spain, as well, has been held up as an example, and from the same source:

Franco's sympathies in World War II lay with Germany and Italy, to whom he gave moral and material support. He nevertheless demanded a high price, which Hitler refused, for military cooperation against the Western Allies, on whom he was dependent for food and oil imports. When in 1943 it appeared that the Allies would win the war, Franco reaffirmed Spain's nominal neutrality without gaining their benevolence.

Again, the Spanish definition of neutrality appears pretty flexible. Both cases show a willingness to accommodate certain belligerents within reason and in the absence of some fierce ideological commitment to the notion of "neutrality."

Thus, the sum of my argument is this:
1. By allowing the transfer of troops, Burgundy gains economic concessions and goodwill from its neighbors, and risks no credible reprisals from the Allies.
2. By refusing, Burgundy risks serious reprisals from its neighbors, as well future animosity, and gains nothing from the Allies in exchange.

When I made similar arguments with regard to American bases in Morocco, Galveston Bay found them acceptable. In fact, the Moroccans ran a higher risk (exchanging a nearby weak patron for a distant powerful one), but have so far reaped greater rewards.

But I leave the decision to Sharina.

One final note, however. As Death Moderator, I gave Burgundy a population of only 1 million. I may have made it too low. This should be addressed if there is to be combat in the area.

Technically, they were not identity thieves. They were just the garden variety thieves that broke into our car, grabbed all they could, and ran off. One of the suitcases they grabbed just so happened to have almost all of our personal information, birth certificates, mortgage papers, credit cards, etc. Supposably one of our SS numbers was used to apply for a drivers license, though they never caught the bastard(s). I would like them to, so that I can personally torture the bastard(s) to death.

That sucks major. I feel for ya. =/

Did you get new numbers and stuff? You should, that way you guys won't get ripped off by these thieves again in the future.

Vas, I appreciate you stating your case about Burgundy.

However out of interest of fairness, I would like to hear GB's side of the story or so to speak. Once he posts his opinions and issue about Burgundy here, then I can make a concrete decision that is fair and just. :)

Vas, I appreciate you stating your case about Burgundy.

However out of interest of fairness, I would like to hear GB's side of the story or so to speak. Once he posts his opinions and issue about Burgundy here, then I can make a concrete decision that is fair and just. :)
Of course. That went without saying.

That sucks major. I feel for ya. =/

Did you get new numbers and stuff? You should, that way you guys won't get ripped off by these thieves again in the future.

We got new cards n all, but we have no new numbers for anything. Except credit cards. Just to use our experience as a lesson, don't stop in North Carolina to stay the night. Even the cops said robberies like this were common. NUKE NORTH CAROLINA should have been the official battlecry of the Union.

whats the E20 Chatzy link?

I lost it.

here you go:

linky (http://www.chatzy.com/684093003041)

Of the various things contributing to the general acrimony of late there has been a debate in particular between Galveston Bay and myself regarding whether Burgundy would allow the transfer of German troops across their territory in support of France in exchange for economic concessions. Our difference of opinion has settled along partisan lines, though of course both of us see ourselves as honest scholars, and given that we are unlikely to see eye to eye on the matter I am referring the issue to Sharina for a final ruling.

It is my own contention that Burgundy, essentially, risks nothing in exchnage for accommodating the Pact request, and equally stands nothing to gain by refusal to do so. There are unlikely to be, for instance, any Allied reprisals for allowing transfer, whereas by refusal, even if the Germans didn't outright invade, Burgundy would have alienated two powerful neighbors, possibly permanently. It seems to me that a landlocked state without Switzerland's natural defenses would be unlikely to engage in that kind of brinksmanship without good reason.

Good reason, of course, is supplied by Galveston Bay's unilateral decision that the Junkers and French Droitistes found a happy home in Burgundy. In game terms, this is pretty unfair, effectively declaring a hostile (or at least antagonistic) state in the very heart of Pact-held territory. He makes decent arguments for his position, but I haven't seen the posts where the old Burgundian player invited the Junkers to Burgundy, and those would be crucial for supporting this contention. I still have my doubts that a bunch of warmongering old Prussian aristocrats would really be all that welcome in a country they bore responsibility for wrecking during the first Great War, but if the Grand Duke wanted them, the Grand Duke wanted them. I'd like to see the evidence, though.

Galveston Bay has also brought up the neutral behavior of various states during our own World Wars. Yes, Belgium stood up to Germany twice, but only when they had both France and England at their backs. The Netherlands is impossible to use as a model, since they were occupied twice as well. And in any event, those German forces were invasion forces, not defensive ones, and that kind of thing makes a difference.

Switzerland I regard as a special case. For one thing, it's been independent for five hundred years - far longer than Burgundy or Belgium. For another they have the Alps. This makes them both highly defensible and unattractive to would-be conquerors.

Galveston Bay has referred to Sweden's behavior during the Second World War as an example, so I quote from the Encyclopaedia Britannica



In other words, for three years Sweden allowed German troops access to Swedish soil, despite the proximity of the Soviet Union (far closer to Sweden than Britain is to Burgundy), and only revoked that agreement when Soviet power became more of threat than German.

Spain, as well, has been held up as an example, and from the same source:



Again, the Spanish definition of neutrality appears pretty flexible. Both cases show a willingness to accommodate certain belligerents within reason and in the absence of some fierce ideological commitment to the notion of "neutrality."

Thus, the sum of my argument is this:
1. By allowing the transfer of troops, Burgundy gains economic concessions and goodwill from its neighbors, and risks no credible reprisals from the Allies.
2. By refusing, Burgundy risks serious reprisals from its neighbors, as well future animosity, and gains nothing from the Allies in exchange.

When I made similar arguments with regard to American bases in Morocco, Galveston Bay found them acceptable. In fact, the Moroccans ran a higher risk (exchanging a nearby weak patron for a distant powerful one), but have so far reaped greater rewards.

But I leave the decision to Sharina.

One final note, however. As Death Moderator, I gave Burgundy a population of only 1 million. I may have made it too low. This should be addressed if there is to be combat in the area.
I'd like a Ruling on this as soon as possible. I suspect it will become extremely important very soon.

After hearing both sides of the debate regarding Burgundy, and I have reached a decision.

I believe that Burgundy can be coerced into allowing German, Russian, or French units cross through its territory. Methods of coercion could include blackmail... "Allow us to cross over via rail or road and we can limit ourselves to that, otherwise if you say no, we have no choice but to invade and crush you" ... or bribes like "We'll pay you $20 million to allow us to shuttle our forces through your territory" or other means.

The main point of this is that on GB's side, he says that with the LTA invading Spain and maybe even be able to invade France soon, the Burgundians may be more bold to defy the Pact. However, on Vas's side, the LTA hasn't quite entered France yet, so Burgundy is still stuck between two Pact members, which means 2 fronts to defend aganist should Burugundy defy the Pact.

Therefore, I propose this compromise.

Burgundy allows Pact shipping of troops and material through it as long as the Pact holds the majority of France. Should the LTA invade France and then Pact suffer terrible losses in France, then Burgundy will be more bold to defy the Pact, as it will have the LTA backing by then.

In our RL timeline, the Junkers were able to defy Germany because they had France on their side (Junkers), and England as well. In our timeline, France is allied with Germany, which puts the Junkers in a difficult position as they have potential enemies all around them (East and West). However, if the LTA does manage to take most of France, the Junkers will look towards the LTA as an ally which should allow them to stand up to the Pact- effectively giving them more of a backbone and follows more of what realistically happened (An Allied- or in our case, LTA- based France after invasion).

Hope my ruling is clear and if you have any questions or challenges, please let me know promptly.

Thanks. That actually looks about right to me.

I am just wondering when is The Balfour Declaration of 1926 going to happen...its very key event for the British Empire and her Dominions.

After hearing both sides of the debate regarding Burgundy, and I have reached a decision.

I believe that Burgundy can be coerced into allowing German, Russian, or French units cross through its territory. Methods of coercion could include blackmail... "Allow us to cross over via rail or road and we can limit ourselves to that, otherwise if you say no, we have no choice but to invade and crush you" ... or bribes like "We'll pay you $20 million to allow us to shuttle our forces through your territory" or other means.

The main point of this is that on GB's side, he says that with the LTA invading Spain and maybe even be able to invade France soon, the Burgundians may be more bold to defy the Pact. However, on Vas's side, the LTA hasn't quite entered France yet, so Burgundy is still stuck between two Pact members, which means 2 fronts to defend aganist should Burugundy defy the Pact.

Therefore, I propose this compromise.

Burgundy allows Pact shipping of troops and material through it as long as the Pact holds the majority of France. Should the LTA invade France and then Pact suffer terrible losses in France, then Burgundy will be more bold to defy the Pact, as it will have the LTA backing by then.

In our RL timeline, the Junkers were able to defy Germany because they had France on their side (Junkers), and England as well. In our timeline, France is allied with Germany, which puts the Junkers in a difficult position as they have potential enemies all around them (East and West). However, if the LTA does manage to take most of France, the Junkers will look towards the LTA as an ally which should allow them to stand up to the Pact- effectively giving them more of a backbone and follows more of what realistically happened (An Allied- or in our case, LTA- based France after invasion).

Hope my ruling is clear and if you have any questions or challenges, please let me know promptly.


a reasonable compromise that reflects historical neutral behavior reasonably well... I will just have to conquer France quickly won't I (evil laughter)

Why, you're nothing but a war-mongering crypto-monarcho-fascist right-deviationist capital-imperialist exploiter.

With the Burgundy issue resolved, I have an issue to raise of my own.

Ecaudor.

I've watched Ecaudor RP and take action in E20, and I'm not happy. He seems to always jump ahead, or do things that Ecaudor cannot do realistically. For instance, he's already RP'ing his troops already in Portgual and firing on Spanish troops when the LTA hasn't even offloaded its whole force yet! Those things have frustrated me as I'm sure must have frustrated some of you E20'ers.

After all, the new point system was put in place because of Ecaudor, and it saying it had 3 battle cruisers or even a battleship when it can't actually operate such things yet.

I would like to hear your opinions on what to do regarding Comstan, the player behind Ecaudor.

Check your TGs, Sharina.

Facist Coup ;)

want me to invade it? How about a communist uprising allowing Colombia to invade. MUAHAHA! Or I could just invade it. How about I invade it? Yeah I think I should invade it ;)

I wouldn't mind a South American Colony ;-)

(ooc: Kirstiriera here...)

July 1925...

I am currently not sure where thing stand at this hour in time as far as thinking so much about being a red nation or going crazy and without something to balance the communists as well as the free nations...but I guess we can not help that at this time can we...

OOC:
well i'm about to get on an airplane, for only the second time in my life.

Here's hoping that the Continental flight from Norfolk,VA to Cleveland lands safely. I might not post much the next four days because well, fuck it i'm on Pass and I'm trying to get booty. But i'll try to get on once or twice a day to check. Oh yeah, me and Manarth are going out drinking on tuesday w00t. DOWNTOWN KENT BAR SCENE!!! (Second largest college in the state of ohio, and the bars around it, need I say more)

I am just wondering when is The Balfour Declaration of 1926 going to happen...its very key event for the British Empire and her Dominions.

The Balfour Declaration of 1926 only came about due to increased independence of dominions in the aftermath of WWI. Our WWI was too early (and didn't involve Britain) to provoke such a response. However this war probably will, the dominions have been left to their own devices and increased independence is bound to result. Therefore I propose to implement a Balfour Proclamation a similar time after this war ends. Though it probably won't be Balfour who proclaims it as he died in 1930. I hope this is OK with everybody.

The Balfour Declaration of 1926 only came about due to increased independence of dominions in the aftermath of WWI. Our WWI was too early (and didn't involve Britain) to provoke such a response. However this war probably will, the dominions have been left to their own devices and increased independence is bound to result. Therefore I propose to implement a Balfour Proclamation a similar time after this war ends. Though it probably won't be Balfour who proclaims it as he died in 1930. I hope this is OK with everybody.

Hey, you guys COULD just... you know... surrender right now... Then Balfour would still be around.... *whistles*

Ecaudor.

So far, I've just been ignoring everything he posts, which has worked pretty well for me.

However, I also appreciate that, as a player, I am uniquely positioned for completely ignoring him, and even as a Moderator he hasn't been pestering me specifically. This is obviously not the case for everyone, though.

I think, in retrospect, that we set a bad precedent with Denmark by metagaming - by which I mean, in this context, resolving OoC problems (i.e., his shitty RP'ing and god-modding) with IC solutions (i.e., invading his country). Albania's problems were both, and in fact primarily IC, so that resolution doesn't trouble me as much.

But Ecuador's problems are simply shitty RP'ing and god-modding, not IC ethnic agitation and diplomatic obstructionism. I think he's been warned in the Threads enough about making a nuisance of himself, and he should just be unceremoniously ejected.

Historically, Ecuador suffered a massive fungal disease of its main export crop (cacao) in the 1920's, followed by a depression (historically linked to WWI, but who cares?), riots, and a military coup. In combination with our Influenza Pandemic, this works for me just fine, and I'll implement Ecuador's NPC status as soon as the other Mods agree.

The Pandemic

Speaking of the Pandemic, it seems to have been ignored in light of the War. Personally, I think everyone's production should suffer during the Pandemic's years, by a quarter (rounded to the nearest). This would suck for all of us, but it's realistic. Alternatively, we could postpone the Pandemic until after the War, since as I say it doesn't appear to have actually materially affected anybody yet. If I missed something somewhere about the disease, by all means direct me to it.

Production

And speaking of production, I've been wondering if gender equality hasn't been factored in to Pact industry and military strength. Russia and Germany have had Red Rosie Riveters for quite a few years, now, after all, as well as female soldiers and pilots. It may well have been taken into consideration, I don't know. But I've been meaning to ask for a while. Anyway.

And what year is it? Still July 1925, right?

And what year is it? Still July 1925, right?

yes, the problems jolt had threw everything off for a bit as it made research damned difficult and posting almost as bad. Then real life got busy over the weekend. I hope to catch everything up the next couple of days. Luckily the Nov Dec turns usually have lots of bad weather and the pace of the war slows down during Nov - February.

So far, I've just been ignoring everything he posts, which has worked pretty well for me.

However, I also appreciate that, as a player, I am uniquely positioned for completely ignoring him, and even as a Moderator he hasn't been pestering me specifically. This is obviously not the case for everyone, though.

I think, in retrospect, that we set a bad precedent with Denmark by metagaming - by which I mean, in this context, resolving OoC problems (i.e., his shitty RP'ing and god-modding) with IC solutions (i.e., invading his country). Albania's problems were both, and in fact primarily IC, so that resolution doesn't trouble me as much.

But Ecuador's problems are simply shitty RP'ing and god-modding, not IC ethnic agitation and diplomatic obstructionism. I think he's been warned in the Threads enough about making a nuisance of himself, and he should just be unceremoniously ejected.

Historically, Ecuador suffered a massive fungal disease of its main export crop (cacao) in the 1920's, followed by a depression (historically linked to WWI, but who cares?), riots, and a military coup. In combination with our Influenza Pandemic, this works for me just fine, and I'll implement Ecuador's NPC status as soon as the other Mods agree..

I can live with that, he has pressed his luck entirely too many times with me (building battle cruisers, special forces, and conducting invasions when the area he wants to invade has already fallen to friendly forces..to name but three issues)


The Pandemic

Speaking of the Pandemic, it seems to have been ignored in light of the War. Personally, I think everyone's production should suffer during the Pandemic's years, by a quarter (rounded to the nearest). This would suck for all of us, but it's realistic. Alternatively, we could postpone the Pandemic until after the War, since as I say it doesn't appear to have actually materially affected anybody yet. If I missed something somewhere about the disease, by all means direct me to it..

I considered that as well, but then looked up what happened during the Spanish Influenza pandemic and discovered that production actually didn't fall because of that. Like bombing in World War II, the pandamec caused casualties (at serious levels) but ways were always found to work around it. At most, maybe a 10% reduction for two turns, but that is kind of a pain to keep track of, so I decided to ignore it completely as it affected everyone to the same extent. Production includes not only factories, but also extractable or imported resources as well, and in wartime, those sectors of the economy always come first. So when labor shortages existed, it was the civilian economy that suffered.


Production

And speaking of production, I've been wondering if gender equality hasn't been factored in to Pact industry and military strength. Russia and Germany have had Red Rosie Riveters for quite a few years, now, after all, as well as female soldiers and pilots. It may well have been taken into consideration, I don't know. But I've been meaning to ask for a while. Anyway.

I am using World War II production levels (adjusted for what has happened in the RP so far), which in every case does include either substantial numbers of women in the work force, or slave labor, or both. So it is already built in.

So is it agreed to eject Comstan from E20, and make Ecaudor a NPC state?

It appears that Vas and GB apparently agree with this, so should we make it official? Some other E20 players have also voiced their opinion to me as well- through TG's and Chatzy.

Would the US object to Bolivia joining the LTA?

Aww I wanted to invade Ecuador.

Aww I wanted to invade Ecuador.

You still can, after Ecaudor turns NPC. ;)

The dirty deed is done. Dirt cheap.

A minor correction- Vietnam should be Chinese (The French handed over Vietnam to China in a secret deal).

It has been a while since the German first invaded my peoples homeland. The first days were like living through hell. Guns firing in the streets. This wasn't the nightly news this war took place right outside my door. But who knows maybe this may be a blessing in desguise.
i admit the government that we had before was not exactly ideal. Actually it was far from it. I do feel however that Germany acted a bit rashly going to war so quickly but considering there is nothing i can do about i will just suck it up.
I thank Gemany for letting me be democratic and elections have made President Johnaton the man in power.
I plan to embrace the socialist party. i find Denmark needed dose of something new considering how many capitalist there are around me. Socialism seems a bit more moral and not as extreme as communism.
I plan to remain neutral in this war and concentrate on economic stability and getting back to normal or better.
I also will expect my assests that were frozen by the U.S to be back under my control. And the many Danish refuges around the world that have been looking for a safe haven away the Germans i want you to know that you can safely come back home. Bolivia is troubled that this event has happened and and enocuroges any Danes who do not wish to stay in Denmark may come as immigrants to Bolivia. There is nothing left to fear.

It has been a while since the German first invaded my peoples homeland. The first days were like living through hell. Guns firing in the streets. This wasn't the nightly news this war took place right outside my door. But who knows maybe this may be a blessing in desguise.
i admit the government that we had before was not exactly ideal. Actually it was far from it. I do feel however that Germany acted a bit rashly going to war so quickly but considering there is nothing i can do about i will just suck it up.
I thank Gemany for letting me be democratic and elections have made President Johnaton the man in power.
I plan to embrace the socialist party. i find Denmark needed dose of something new considering how many capitalist there are around me. Socialism seems a bit more moral and not as extreme as communism.
I plan to remain neutral in this war and concentrate on economic stability and getting back to normal or better.
I also will expect my assests that were frozen by the U.S to be back under my control. And the many Danish refuges around the world that have been looking for a safe haven away the Germans i want you to know that you can safely come back home. There is nothing left to fear.


Teh? Who are you?

Teh? Who are you?
I am now RPing as Denmark

I am now RPing as Denmark

you are?

Yes i am, is that bad?

Yes i am, is that bad?

no no no, just curious

so i guess were in the middle of a world war uh.

I wish to increase trade with Haiti. The Republic of Haiti wishes to open relations with Denmark. We have valuable coffee, sugar, and bauxite up for trade. In return, we require silver, copper, cement, lumber, and steel. We also are in need of skilled workers to help train our citizens(teachers, engineers, doctors...). posted by Sel Apppa

I thought Denmark was annexed....

No, I think it was just occupied until they held elections.

Correct

No, I think it was just occupied until they held elections.

You might wan to read the Rise of A Danish Leader post i made on the page before.

so i guess were in the middle of a world war uh.

yep, silly Denmark, having elections whilst the rest of the world is busy spewing eachothers guts :P

Well... I guess weveryone else has... Sign me up as.... Cuba... if possible... And if not, I'll take Panama.... or any country thats left....

Well... I guess weveryone else has... Sign me up as.... Cuba... if possible... And if not, I'll take Panama.... or any country thats left....

dude, glad to see you here, you have to TG Hrstrovokia with the nation claims these days, oh and I can vouch for Palixia, he's a good RPer.

I would like the U.S to know that i would very much appreciate it if i could have the Virgin Isalnds back. If not i would appreciate it if i would be officially able to sell it to you.
I think this is a fair request don't you.

It has been a while since the German first invaded my peoples homeland. The first days were like living through hell. Guns firing in the streets. This wasn't the nightly news this war took place right outside my door. But who knows maybe this may be a blessing in desguise.
i admit the government that we had before was not exactly ideal. Actually it was far from it. I do feel however that Germany acted a bit rashly going to war so quickly but considering there is nothing i can do about i will just suck it up.
I thank Gemany for letting me be democratic and elections have made President Johnaton the man in power.
I plan to embrace the socialist party. i find Denmark needed dose of something new considering how many capitalist there are around me. Socialism seems a bit more moral and not as extreme as communism.
I plan to remain neutral in this war and concentrate on economic stability and getting back to normal or better.
I also will expect my assests that were frozen by the U.S to be back under my control. And the many Danish refuges around the world that have been looking for a safe haven away the Germans i want you to know that you can safely come back home. Bolivia is troubled that this event has happened and and enocuroges any Danes who do not wish to stay in Denmark may come as immigrants to Bolivia. There is nothing left to fear.

I actually remember saying that. You should start your own Danenish news thread or start posting in the old one.

I would like the U.S to know that i would very much appreciate it if i could have the Virgin Isalnds back. If not i would appreciate it if i would be officially able to sell it to you.
I think this is a fair request don't you.

they are independent under US protection

i guess i was just misinformed. But i think that i have i right to it. beside the Vigin Islands is too small to govern itself there no way it can be independent. it will be crushed on the world market. I just which to have my colony back without any military resistance from the Western Hemisphere.

Yes i am, is that bad?
Yes, it's bad.
Rules for joining are outlined in the First Post of this Thread. It requires a Telegram to Hrstrovokia seeking admission, and two RP samples which can be reviewed and decided upon by the three Chief Moderators. we are presently only accepting very experienced players, since we've had a lot of trouble with godmodding. I can already tell from the number of posts you've made, though, that you need to get some more RP'ing under your belt. My regrets, and good luck out there.

i guess i was just misinformed. But i think that i have i right to it. beside the Vigin Islands is too small to govern itself there no way it can be independent. it will be crushed on the world market. I just which to have my colony back without any military resistance from the Western Hemisphere.

the short answer is no.... and the Danish Virgin Islands were developing a tourist industry until the war started. For now their economy depends on the spending of US and Colombian sailors on leave and sugar prices are really high right now too, so they are doing ok I would suspect.

The Virgin Islands were seized by the US to prevent the Germans from taking them when the Germans conquered Denmark, and then elections were held and they gained independence.

That was referee sactioned about three years ago in game time. You can't have Iceland or Greenland back either, Iceland is in the LTA, and is an important base, and the LTA is not inclined to let the Pact have access to the weather forecasting data from Greenland. (that is where most European Cold Fronts start).

Perhaps after the war the Icelanders and Greenlanders and Virgin Islanders are inclined to vote to rejoin you. I wouldn't count on it though.

Finally it is September 1925, any special orders need to be in to me tonight if possible, so that I can move the war along. I hope to have 1925 done by Thursday, so that everyone can build and plan for 1926. I will be out of town next weekend as we have babysitting for the children for the entire weekend and wife and I are going somewhere without children.

Unless you have children, you have no idea how exciting a romantic weekend without children is.

Don't bother being Panama, I'd just gas your entire population.

On September 1, President Cox gives a radio address to the nation from the House floor. It is also widely covered by the Press.

On 3 September, Karl Radek, President of the General Council at Warsaw, replies on the Council floor, also covered by radio and the press:

Mr. Cox seems to have an interesting view of what constitutes "survival" if he feels that that is what the Allies are fighting for.

Was it survival, then that drove him to seize sovereign Spanish territory in the midst of Spain's Civil War? I think not. Amoral opportunism, more like.

Was it survival that drove him to reject his own country's treaty, that had for years kept militarism on the seas at bay? Expansionism, I should think.

Mr. Cox insists that Moskva declared war. A lawyer could wrangle otherwise, but I shall not bother. Whether Moskva declared war is beside the point when the Americans so patently began it, by seizing another people's land in the midst of their most desperate hour. If Moskva declared war then that is only further proof of our own honor, and of Washington's piracy.

Mr. Cox and Mr. Churchill say they fight for freedom. Freedom for whom? Not for us. Not for the Finns, not for Poles, nor Ukrainians, nor Algerians, nor Frenchmen, nor Germans, nor Turks, nor Indians. Ask the slaveowner what he means by "freedom" and you will get a very different answer than the one his chattel would give. We have already chosen our destiny. We fought our Revolution for freedom, for democracy, and for justice. They fought theirs for the right to own other men. Make no mistake. Their freedom is the freedom of the Spartan over the helot, the Senator over his slave, the Tsar over his serf. The Allies come to enslave us, and that is all. They will not rest until the whole world is owned by their fat bankers and arrogant militarists.

Mr. Cox has an interesting view of the world. I have often wondered how he sleeps at night, and now I know - he is blind to his own evil. We are not.

We fight for our freedom, our homes and hearths, our families, and our Fatherlands. We fight for the rights of every man to stand proud beneath the sun as his own master. We fight because we must, not because we love war, or desire territory or power.

We fight for survival. They fight for conquest. But in this, if nothing else, Mr. Cox is not false. To his kind, survival is conquest.

And that is why they must be fought.

<drowned out by applause>


OOC: i don't even merit being mentioned in the speech. Jeez.

What do you mean? Arrogant militarists who fight for conquest? What phrases could better describe the Japanese Imperialist scum? I probably should have used "racialist" in there somewhere, too, I admit.
But man, you guys are touchy.

vp, Chatzy?

I'm back from my trip, so I'll be a wee bit more active now (But nothing every involves India, except for a bunch of people dying of flu -_-)

Actually, the RUssian army is on the Indus River, if I recall correctly.

Indeed, the Pact has swept through Afghanistan and into Pakistan and now faces the Indian and British forces over the Indus River. The situation looks bleak but it looks like the forces can hold on until reinforcements from the Commonwealth arrive.

Don't bother being Panama, I'd just gas your entire population.

Because he's nice like that.

where has the Zionist Mule Corps vanished to, i havn't seen anything in the Great War thread, so where are they?

where has the Zionist Mule Corps vanished to, i havn't seen anything in the Great War thread, so where are they?

patience young padawan, they have not finished training yet.

patience young padawan, they have not finished training yet.

oh, will they fight before the Pact nations get completely destroyed? Or visa versa

Galveston, can we change from the Point system and current way of battle? It just seems like a rather ineffective system for what we are doing, as it leaves so many hugely important things out of the equation, and is on a korps level which is another bad thing. I am sure it is a fun game, but i see it as a burden upon the community to have us with no power over anything, our appointment of officers, strategy, docterines, technology, experiance, none of those seem to matter in this, i am sure other agree with me.

I agree with Independent. I only have 3 corps, and they are all rather bad, even though my brightest young officers are sent to France for military school and I am able to keep up with modern tactics. What happened to the divisional system used in the last war?

The communists have reached the Indus?

Weeeeeeeeee!!!

Where can I see this info, please?

The Great War 2 thread.

He means, the Second Great War (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=448361) thread. It's on page ten or eleven, but we took to the Indus rather earlier. The Union proclaimed an independent (strictly Pashtun) Kingdom of Afghanistan, and we enlarged (by conquest and plebiscite) Tadzhikistan and Uzbekistan at northern Afghanistan's expanse and are giving them a referendum on full sovereignty in 1927.

We're mostly getting our asses handed to us, but things could still turn around. I was planning on issuing a call to revolution for our Indian brothers, soon, anyway. After all, why should even the Rajahs (let alone anybody else) fight for a pasty white overfed pig of a capitalist drunkard half a world away? India for the Indians, I say.

He means, the Second Great War (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=448361) thread. It's on page ten or eleven, but we took to the Indus rather earlier. The Union proclaimed an independent (strictly Pashtun) Kingdom of Afghanistan, and we enlarged (by conquest and plebiscite) Tadzhikistan and Uzbekistan at northern Afghanistan's expanse and are giving them a referendum on full sovereignty in 1927.

We're mostly getting our asses handed to us, but things could still turn around. I was planning on issuing a call to revolution for our Indian brothers, soon, anyway. After all, why should even the Rajahs (let alone anybody else) fight for a pasty white overfed pig of a capitalist drunkard half a world away? India for the Indians, I say.

I planned out the entire rebellion already, as some people know (I think only Ottoman Khaif has seen the maps though, but I post 'em below). Of course, the problem with your current situation is that the Muslims of India would stay with the British, since the Brits have treated 'em really well. The Baluch would join you, seeing how they despise everyone (and you could help them create a state for the Baluch, seeing how you are in control of the areas of Afghanistan that they consider theirs). The Red Indians control the poorest and least-developed areas(except for Calcutta, which is pretty developed), while the Pro-British/Nationalist control the richer and more-developed areas(with the exception of South Ceylon and Bangladesh).

(Maps: Pakistan (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/Thelightningstar/PakistanIndiaCivilWar.png)
India (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/Thelightningstar/IndiaCivilWar.png)
Bangladesh (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/Thelightningstar/BangladeshIndiaCivilWar.png)
Red means Red India, Green means Nationalist/Pro-British India)

Galveston, can we change from the Point system and current way of battle? It just seems like a rather ineffective system for what we are doing, as it leaves so many hugely important things out of the equation, and is on a korps level which is another bad thing. I am sure it is a fun game, but i see it as a burden upon the community to have us with no power over anything, our appointment of officers, strategy, docterines, technology, experiance, none of those seem to matter in this, i am sure other agree with me.


I concur somewhat, but you also have to remember with a war on this scale micromanaging is a bit difficult and that sort of thing is hard to RP


I don't think there is any easy solution

He means, the Second Great War (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=448361) thread. It's on page ten or eleven, but we took to the Indus rather earlier. The Union proclaimed an independent (strictly Pashtun) Kingdom of Afghanistan, and we enlarged (by conquest and plebiscite) Tadzhikistan and Uzbekistan at northern Afghanistan's expanse and are giving them a referendum on full sovereignty in 1927.

We're mostly getting our asses handed to us, but things could still turn around. I was planning on issuing a call to revolution for our Indian brothers, soon, anyway. After all, why should even the Rajahs (let alone anybody else) fight for a pasty white overfed pig of a capitalist drunkard half a world away? India for the Indians, I say.

because so far the only thing the Indians have had to fight are the Russians who are invading for no really good reason except to liberate the very same race of people who have been raiding the Ganges and Indus Valleys for centuries. In addition, all of the Indian troops are volunteers (5 million Indians volunteered and served military service in World War II).

At this point, where are these rebels getting weapons? Who is shipping them in? How many years have the Communists been trying to set up a cell structure? Many questions come to mind.

I concur somewhat, but you also have to remember with a war on this scale micromanaging is a bit difficult and that sort of thing is hard to RP


I don't think there is any easy solution

Its is the only way that I can resolve combat and production in a way that allows time to progress at a reasonable rate. Believe me, this is a lot of work, but nothing else is easier. Doctrine and training and firepower are factored into your ratings.

I agree with Independent. I only have 3 corps, and they are all rather bad, even though my brightest young officers are sent to France for military school and I am able to keep up with modern tactics. What happened to the divisional system used in the last war?

the last war only involved Europe and the Mideast.. this war is global.

The Palestinian and other Arab armies with the exception of the British trained Jordanian Arab Legion and Egyptian Army since 1972 have not inspired a lot of confidence in me giving them a lot higher rating than you got, plus your tech level is going to force a lower level of firepower.

GB- please check your TGs, its very important.

GB- please check your TGs, its very important.

acknowledged

VP and/or Parthni, please check your news threads.....

nationstates is down, so hopefully by monday I can respond to whatever telegrams you may have sent me on friday.

Technology... the US, UK, Germany, France, Russia, Japan and Italy are at tech level 6. The US is about to have radar, the French are researching it heavily.

The Russians are putting into production multiple rocket launchers (Katyushas), the Americans are researching tactical voice radio, and are about to begin research on strategic bombing and chemical warfare. See economics thread for what those do for you.

Any aircraft or tank that was actually built or could have been in 1934 in the real world becomes available in 1926.

Have a good weekend, I am gone until late Sunday

Hello guys! I just moved today, and I have high speed internet once again! Yay!!!!!

Sorry for not being able to post. I won't really get more than this till Monday.

back again, and the LTA will make its move for the first part of Nov December turn tonight... all final hours must be in within 2 hours of this point if you are LTA, Japan I have yours, and the British orders as well. Then it will be the Pact phase, then LTA, and then Pact, and that is almost certainly it because of the weather (bad weather shortens a turn)

back again, and the LTA will make its move for the first part of Nov December turn tonight... all final hours must be in within 2 hours of this point if you are LTA, Japan I have yours, and the British orders as well. Then it will be the Pact phase, then LTA, and then Pact, and that is almost certainly it because of the weather (bad weather shortens a turn)

I posted my orders in the Great War thread.

I posted my orders in the Great War thread.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9858433&postcount=265

I guess everyone has had a rough weekend... hopefully things can only get better as the nature of societal order is thrown into yet another disasterous affair... I guess it is hard to keep the time correct at this point...

The Next Major World's Fair is in Philadelphia starting in April of 1926...

I guess everyone has had a rough weekend... hopefully things can only get better as the nature of societal order is thrown into yet another disasterous affair... I guess it is hard to keep the time correct at this point...

The Next Major World's Fair is in Philadelphia starting in April of 1926...

I wouldn't get your hopes up for the US holding a Worlds Fair this year

I have quarrels with the invasion of Spain because I had specifically stated that I had 700,000 men and women on the COAST, not inland, building up defences since the Beginning of this war so I do not see how they would not be in position to stop a landing anywhere bu Gibraltar and gibraltar was surrounded by the French. Unfortunately I have to bring this up now because I was not able to get on the computer when I was being invaded and it appears GB took it upon himself to Rp wht my army had been doing and would do to his advantage since al of a sudden my forces were inland. If they would have met a large force on the coasts then there would have been time to have other Pact units to join. That is my main quarrel right now as I thoroughly reread the posts. Hopefully we can resolve these issues as we go along...

I have quarrels with the invasion of Spain because I had specifically stated that I had 700,000 men and women on the COAST, not inland, building up defences since the Beginning of this war so I do not see how they would not be in position to stop a landing anywhere bu Gibraltar and gibraltar was surrounded by the French. Unfortunately I have to bring this up now because I was not able to get on the computer when I was being invaded and it appears GB took it upon himself to Rp wht my army had been doing and would do to his advantage since al of a sudden my forces were inland. If they would have met a large force on the coasts then there would have been time to have other Pact units to join. That is my main quarrel right now as I thoroughly reread the posts. Hopefully we can resolve these issues as we go along...

you know if you concentrated your forces on the coast and the LTA broke through at any one point they could cut you off faster. GB did you favor buddy. better to keep your reserve mobile and able to manauver to meet a threat.

i believe i had like 100,000 or 200,000 troops in reserve inland

i believe i had like 100,000 or 200,000 troops in reserve inland

and most of them were indeed on the coast, which did you no good at all as I came roaring through Portugal...

In addition, the last communication from you was that you were grounded and had no idea when you could post again. If you look at the maps of Spain, the posts governing the invasion and the World In Flames map, you will see that Spain did about as well as it could, considering that the Allies outnumbered you three to one, and nearly five to one in combat power, and were far more mobile than you as all of the American troops were fully motorized. Spain held out nearly 4 months, which isn't bad considering. You will also notice that the LTA overran nearly 2/3rds of France in about the same time frame.

Did you really expect Spain would hold out against the full power of a nation 10 times its size in population and nearly 100 times more powerful in industry?
Which also had the freedom to land anywhere it wanted as well?

i believe i had like 100,000 or 200,000 troops in reserve inland


Honestly if you've got it, i believe in a space for time defense(fall back, draw them inland, manuever around and cut them off) Russia is a very good nation for this. So in that sort of situation i would have held far more troops in reserve. To effectively be able to crush and breakthrough. But you had neither the manpower nor technology, control of sea or air. Aka you were Effed, right from the begining

I have quarrels with the invasion of Spain because I had specifically stated that I had 700,000 men and women on the COAST, not inland, building up defences since the Beginning of this war so I do not see how they would not be in position to stop a landing anywhere bu Gibraltar and gibraltar was surrounded by the French. Unfortunately I have to bring this up now because I was not able to get on the computer when I was being invaded and it appears GB took it upon himself to Rp wht my army had been doing and would do to his advantage since al of a sudden my forces were inland. If they would have met a large force on the coasts then there would have been time to have other Pact units to join. That is my main quarrel right now as I thoroughly reread the posts. Hopefully we can resolve these issues as we go along...
GB and I have had our differences, to be sure (and speaking of those differences, I've still never gotten a satisfactory answer as to why British and American troops are consistently of better quality than Russian). And the invasion of Spain was blindingly quick. The biggest problem, as I see it, was simply that none of us had really seen the map, understood the system, at the time we were formulating our strategies. The mountains of Italy, for instance, have all those white barriers between the hexes, signifying total impassability. Spanish mountains are largely lacking in those, signifying rugged terrain but not of nearly the same magnitude. This is only one example of numerous factors that have worked against the Good Guys in this war.

GB, as the US, profited from our ignorance when we devising our strategies. But I have become convinced that he did not wilfully engineer it that way as War Moderator. Sadly, we are only now making progress towards familiarizing ourselves with the systems in use, and it may already be too late for all of us. It is definitely too late for Spain, however. There's no turning back the clock - that's the implicit agreement we all make when we play, that we accept the bad along with the good. Believe me, I would rather have a strong and powerful Spain still fighting against the tyrannical invaders. But, there it is.

GB and I have had our differences, to be sure (and speaking of those differences, I've still never gotten a satisfactory answer as to why British and American troops are consistently of better quality than Russian). And the invasion of Spain was blindingly quick. The biggest problem, as I see it, was simply that none of us had really seen the map, understood the system, at the time we were formulating our strategies. The mountains of Italy, for instance, have all those white barriers between the hexes, signifying total impassability. Spanish mountains are largely lacking in those, signifying rugged terrain but not of nearly the same magnitude. This is only one example of numerous factors that have worked against the Good Guys in this war.

GB, as the US, profited from our ignorance when we devising our strategies. But I have become convinced that he did not wilfully engineer it that way as War Moderator. Sadly, we are only now making progress towards familiarizing ourselves with the systems in use, and it may already be too late for all of us. It is definitely too late for Spain, however. There's no turning back the clock - that's the implicit agreement we all make when we play, that we accept the bad along with the good. Believe me, I would rather have a strong and powerful Spain still fighting against the tyrannical invaders. But, there it is.


posted that response in the war thread

the white barriers are impassable to everything but Alpine units. However, the main thing that worked for the US in Spain was invading from Portugal instead of having to launch an amphibious invasion against the rugged Spanish northern coast or the well defended Mediterranean coast.

What are we going to do with the point system after the war? Will we use the same thing, but this time with improvements, etc, and probably toned down some?

Parthini']What are we going to do with the point system after the war? Will we use the same thing, but this time with improvements, etc, and probably toned down some?

adjustements will be made but expect sharp limits on peacetime military forces unless you want to accept nasty economic costs (remember how the Soviet Union went away). In addition, while in wartime people are willing to accept rationing, shortages etc, in peacetime they aren't willing to make sacrifices. In societies that are democratic they are going to express their displeasure in the polling place, in other societies, you will have to be repressive.

I was thinking more along the line of contruction of hospitals, roads, factories, schools, churches (if you want to waste it :p), housing, farms, maintainance of farms, that kind of stuff. Would that be similar?

OOC: something is effed with NS on my comp, so i can't get to my telegrams.

Radio Address of Miguel Garuda Mellón, Minister of Foreign Affairs for Argentina - Broadcast from a recording, earlier that day in Buenos Aires:

"It is clear that we continue to fight a war of ideology which prohibits a just peace from being found. With the invasion of Burgundy and Belgium, the Pact has given the Estados Unidos the excuse it needs to continue the war indefinately. My fellow Argentine people, do we want to send our own sons to die in India so that the Estados Unidos can have it's total victory at all costs? Do we want to fight not in defence of Britain, our ally, but in aggression so that the EU can have it's moment of glory?

"No."

*Shocked silence, followed by applause*

"We will not abandon our British ally, but we must rethink our own beliefs as to what this war is about and what it hopes to accomplish. Clearly, peace is not the goal of some who fight, and while the Pact forces started this conflict, they were willing to accept a fair and just peace proposed by none other than Argentina herself!

"But the EU refused to bargain, refused to uphold it's supposed commitment to peace. If the EU really went to war here for Morocco, then why not stop now, when the Pact is willing to give up everything the war was fought over in the beginning?

"No, Argentina will no longer support such an action with her own flesh and blood, even at the expense of our ally, Great Britain. We will, as per the Treaty of London, support them materially. But we cannot have our sons and fathers die in India so that the US can march unmolested on Berlin or Moscow.

"At this time, Argentina anounces it's withdrawl of troops and naval vessels currently ordered to India. The units enroute will instead serve in the occupation of Madagascar. Furthermore, Argentina will begin restoring diplomatic ties to the Union, Germany, and Yugoslavia, and formally withdrawl from the London Treaty Alliance.

"Argentina will not forget thier British allies, and will supply them by sea materially until India and Afghanistan have once more been liberated from the Union.

"Thank you all and goodnight."

Palestine Government and the Ottoman Goverment have agree to become one nation onces again. Just reuniting them as one state known as the Middle Eastern Union aka the Ottoman State. Check out my new thead , Palestine has confirm it. Just giving me back some lost lands..

Palestine Government and the Ottoman Goverment have agree to become one nation onces again. Just reuniting them as one state known as the Middle Eastern Union aka the Ottoman State. Check out my new thead , Palestine has confirm it. Just giving me back some lost lands..

The US government congratulates the peoples of the Middle East on a peaceful unification.

GB- now since I own Palestine onces again, do I get his Army units under my command or they get disband and I have to retrained into my army cores?

GB- now since I own Palestine onces again, do I get his Army units under my command or they get disband and I have to retrained into my army cores?

you get them as is...

Treaty of Antioch

I. An Invasion of the Middle Eastern Union or The Empire of Japan shall be considered an attack and invasion of both nations.
II. Increased trade between the Empire of Nippon and Middle Eastern Union, Primarily Oil for Armaments and Finished Industrial Products
III. This alliance supercedes any previously signed alliance the Empire of Nippon and the Middle Eastern Union has signed
IV. The establishment of an IJN Arabian Sea Squadron with a naval base in Southern Iran, to protect Nipponese and Middle Eastern Sea trade
V. The induction of Turkish naval officers to the Imperial Japanese Naval Academy after having learned Japanese, followed by 2-4 years service in the IJN before returning to the Turkish Navy to spread their experience
VI. the Establishment of a Naval Training center for the Turkish Navy for their Enlisted personnell somewhere near the home port of the Japanese Arabian Squadron
VII. The use of Turkish production points to produce in Imperial Japanese Naval yards a force of two Fleet Carriers, and 3 light carriers with one Training Carrier for the Turkish Navy
VIII. Japanese Aid in construction of two Turkish Shipyards in Asia Minor
IX. Encouragement from both Governments for Private Enterprises to invest in each others nations to further both Nations Economies
X. This treaty is to last for a duration of 8 years and at that time both nations will be able to consider whether they would like to renew or renegotiate the Above treaty

Next week, I'll only be able to be online during the evenings. I would like to retain full command, but if it turns out that I can't keep up, I'll appoint a lieutenant to make daily, quick decisions, while I retain strategic control of all Pact forces.

This war has really gotten me confused, and I have one question: What the hell has happened? It would also be really grand if someone posted a link to the war on the front page.

This war has really gotten me confused, and I have one question: What the hell has happened? It would also be really grand if someone posted a link to the war on the front page.

The first year of the war, July 1924 -25 saw fierce fighting at sea between the Pact and LTA, and the LTA essentially wiped out the Pact surface fleets and survived the first phase of the Pact submarine offensive. The Pact invaded Italy, and had nearly made it to the Po Valley when Allied forces arrived in just enough numbers to hold them off. The French and Germans lost the best part of their armies driving across the Alps. Meanwhile, the Russians invaded Afghanistan and conqured it. Meanwhile, the LTA took just about every single colony the French and Germans had with the exception of French West Africa (which was considered more trouble than it was worth)

So far in the second year of the war, the Allies have gone on the offensive in Europe. Portugal joined the LTA, allowing Allied forces to land there and pour into Spain, which collapsed after 4 months. Shortly after the Allies landed in France and after 8 months of fighting have conquered France as well. The Pact invaded and conquered neutral Belgium and Burgundy (very recently).

In Asia, the Russians continued their invasion of the Indian subcontinent and heavy fighting continues in the Indus Valley, Delhi and the area between Karachi and Bombay. Additonal Allied and Russian forces continue to pour in. The Americans have helped the Indians with military aid to increase the firepower and mobility of the Indian Army. The Chinese entered the war, destroying an Australian task group near Malaya but lacked amphibious troops and couldn't invade. They did invade Burma, and that invasion force was subsequently destroyed by Australian, Canadian and Indian forces, retaking Burma as well.

In Siberia the Japanese invaded, took Vladivostok, and then declared an armistice with Russian and are withdrawing their troops. They did not fight the Chinese, and subequently after learning over half the US and British Navy were on the way to deal with their fleet, the Chinese sent their fleet to hide in internment in Japanese Formosa.

Its a complicated war, and thats just the big things so far.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=448361&page=31

As the player of the Ottoman State, I face a major problem which I don't truely know how to address this issue correctly, here is my issue the relationship between the Turks, Persians, Kurds, Arabs, Armenians, Assyians, and Greek at not that good..in my personal opinion, I trully want to united these rival groups under one banner, the only way I thought it could be done would doing a Jihad to get the Islamic backgounds of some the groups to join together and forget their 100ths upon years of hate towad eachother, but I realize that wouldn't be a smart move, I am open to ideas on how to impove relations between these groups in the hopes of stablize my nation ever futher for stake of the future, I am all hears.

You could try something like... say... Communism?

Parthini']You could try something like... say... Communism?

Yes, lets have the muslims give up allah so they can get along. That'll work!

As the player of the Ottoman State, I face a major problem which I don't truely know how to address this issue correctly, here is my issue the relationship between the Turks, Persians, Kurds, Arabs, Armenians, Assyians, and Greek at not that good..in my personal opinion, I trully want to united these rival groups under one banner, the only way I thought it could be done would doing a Jihad to get the Islamic backgounds of some the groups to join together and forget their 100ths upon years of hate towad eachother, but I realize that wouldn't be a smart move, I am open to ideas on how to impove relations between these groups in the hopes of stablize my nation ever futher for stake of the future, I am all hears.
That is a really hard question.

There are sound reasons, of course, why the Ottoman Empire collapsed in the Real World - it probably was unsustainable. Even Pan-Islamism wouldn't be a profoundly unifying force across sectarian lines. And it would be positively alienating to non-Muslims (like the USDR).

In a way, most of the peoples of the Ottoman Empire are united by their dislike of the Turks, but you've run a comparatively mild administration as player, so it's not likely to be as bad. Still. Historically, the arrival of modernity meant either nationalism or socialism.

You might consider splitting into a commonwealth of satellite states, but the risks there are that Turkey isn't powerful enough by itself to dominate the Empire and ceding autonomy to certain (perhaps even most) ethnic groups is just as likely to encourage nationalism as not. Remember the RL breakup of the Soviet Union - a little latitude, after decades of oppression, was enough to shatter the entire compact. The Ottomans are in a similar situation.

There are some things you might try. Affirmative action. Encourage internal migration to mix up ethnicities and erode enclaves. Establish a comprehensive welfare state, and undertake a massive effort to build schools, hospitals, and roads. When people see the government actually caring about them and doing things for them rather than just to them, they tend not to hate it as much. Start in the places where Istambul is least popular.

I don't know that it'll work, but it's certainly better than nothing.

Good luck.

all in all Turkey, your problem will require some research. I am not sure how it would hold together either.

New Romanian News thread here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=452921)

another cool rp

http://s9.invisionfree.com/Earth_7/index.php?act=idx

I must sincerely apologize to everyone for not being here. And, when I've been here, not doing much. Well, I'm back, and if GB hasn't already come up with something for Italy, I'll be sending out orders and getting a build order ready, I suppose. I've read enough to catch up, and it appears everything is evenly matched. India is going to be close for whoever the victor is, France and Spain have fallen, but Europe can still go either way. Very interesting.

There's also been some colorful rhetoric out there, and I'm going to throw my own colorful rhetoric in there.

GB, what is Romania's current military and economic status?

It will take me probably about a week to figure out where everybody is at this point...

a brave volunteer willing to count casualties would be great by the way... don't forget the flu ones too.

I will figure death rates based on total casualties.. they vary country by country

A quick question: Did the US and Britan start rebuilding France's industry in Brest and the other ports they took over?

A quick question: Did the US and Britan start rebuilding France's industry in Brest and the other ports they took over?

the UK has nearly finished repairs to French industry at Nantes and Brest, and the US was planning to do the same for the other areas that the Russians took the industry from as well as Paris. It will take a couple of years, but eventually everything will be repaired. The US will also repair Burgundy and Belgium as well. In addition to completing what it is doing in Spain.

Call it the Stinson Plan (from the Secretary of State) as George Marshal is a lowly corps commander at the moment, and a young one at that.

the UK has nearly finished repairs to French industry at Nantes and Brest, and the US was planning to do the same for the other areas that the Russians took the industry from as well as Paris. It will take a couple of years, but eventually everything will be repaired. The US will also repair Burgundy and Belgium as well. In addition to completing what it is doing in Spain.

Call it the Stinson Plan (from the Secretary of State) as George Marshal is a lowly corps commander at the moment, and a young one at that.

Righto, thanks.

OOC: Hey! We want to help too!

Perhaps we should coordinate the reconstruction efforts? Just because they can't be in the Pact doesn't mean they can't be our friends :D

Another thing. I remember how the Americans were trying to be nice to the POWs. I was wondering if it would be possible to have the POWs who come home, have been introduced to Basketball by the Americans, and since its a really cheap game (only need a ball and baskets), we could have it spread throughout Germany, Yugoslavia, Russia, France, Spain, and China? That way, we could have an inter-Pact Sports League, and then we could beat the Americans in the Olympics ;)

Like Hockey?

Or you could just play Hockey. Hey, how about Hockey! *Canadian roots shines through*

Parthini']Another thing. I remember how the Americans were trying to be nice to the POWs. I was wondering if it would be possible to have the POWs who come home, have been introduced to Basketball by the Americans, and since its a really cheap game (only need a ball and baskets), we could have it spread throughout Germany, Yugoslavia, Russia, France, Spain, and China? That way, we could have an inter-Pact Sports League, and then we could beat the Americans in the Olympics ;)

chuckle.. why not

Hey not to be a spoilsport, but i've been playing this RP to ROLE PLAY not number crunch. I'm hereby lodging my protest of the point system being used in peacetime. Honestly, this RP has become more and more complex and number crunching as time has gone on. The points system in peacetime is going to become bloated and complex and again is far too much work resting on the Moderator. If I had wanted to play a paper and dice Role Play with a number and point system, I would have done that IRL. To be honest I was never a real fan of the point system and especially in peacetime feels it takes away from the spirit of the Roleplay. It's not as much I don't know, FUN as the way things were in Peacetime before.

If I had wanted to play "War in Flames", I would have bought it.

It will take me probably about a week to figure out where everybody is at this point...

a brave volunteer willing to count casualties would be great by the way... don't forget the flu ones too.

I will figure death rates based on total casualties.. they vary country by country
I already counted casualties from the Pandemic.

Parthini']OOC: Hey! We want to help too!

Perhaps we should coordinate the reconstruction efforts? Just because they can't be in the Pact doesn't mean they can't be our friends :D

France will, of course, accept help from all nations. ;)

Hey not to be a spoilsport, but i've been playing this RP to ROLE PLAY not number crunch. I'm hereby lodging my protest of the point system being used in peacetime. Honestly, this RP has become more and more complex and number crunching as time has gone on. The points system in peacetime is going to become bloated and complex and again is far too much work resting on the Moderator. If I had wanted to play a paper and dice Role Play with a number and point system, I would have done that IRL. To be honest I was never a real fan of the point system and especially in peacetime feels it takes away from the spirit of the Roleplay. It's not as much I don't know, FUN as the way things were in Peacetime before.

If I had wanted to play "War in Flames", I would have bought it.

I second. The numbers are fine to use during war when we actually need to keep track of who's building what, but during peace it owuld be incredibly anal to have to post your stuff every week. Plus, someone has to keep track of it.

not to mention smaller nations can't even take part in Peace-keeping, where they have only one corps and use that for defense. I say we finish up 1926 and maybe 1927 then go back to the roleplay system.

I can live without it, but I will also be watching, and if Japan suddenly shows up with 20 aircraft carriers when it could barely afford 10 in real life I am going to cheerfully ignore them.

The problem I see is that we had nations building things they could in no way shape or form have really afforded to pay the upkeep on, much less actually build or purchase. Anyone remember Ecuadors battle cruiser? How about those 20 Chinese heavy cruisers (when even the US and British and Japanese navies had that many between them?)

See my point?

The possibilities of godmodding are really rife if we don't have some kind of way to ensure everyone is playing by some set of rules that are reasonably easy to use.

You guys would have screamed bloody murder if I had just suddenly announced that the US was invading France with 20 corps if I hadn't shown how I came up with them.

So its a pretty fair system really. No one is asking you to number crunch, and I already said I was working on something easier. Every computer version of what we are trying to do here (Civilization, Rise of Nations etc) has a similar system. Not necessarily points per say, but definite trade offs that you make if you chose to pursue one economic strategy over another, or try to have too many guns with butter.

So Clan, what do you sugges? Its easy to criticize, but I haven't seen many other people besides Vas and myself actually post economic data.

not to mention smaller nations can't even take part in Peace-keeping, where they have only one corps and use that for defense. I say we finish up 1926 and maybe 1927 then go back to the roleplay system.

I have also specifically indicated that smaller wars will be handled using different system. The corps based wargame was used when I had half a dozen fronts to deal with at once in order for me to actually have a reasonable chance of gaming out the war in a reasonable time frame.

that makes me happy GB, can you post how many divisions would be in each country corps? I know 3 divisions for mech, arm, and arm cav, but what about Inf? Those would be things i would need to know to say, have the USA send the 173rd Seperate Brigade to Vietnam in 1967.

that makes me happy GB, can you post how many divisions would be in each country corps? I know 3 divisions for mech, arm, and arm cav, but what about Inf? Those would be things i would need to know to say, have the USA send the 173rd Seperate Brigade to Vietnam in 1967.

examining that now.... like I said earlier, it will take me a week to sort out the lessons of the 2nd Great War for gameplay purposes, and figure out the effects the war had on everyone

One of the things I am looking at is easier ways to keep track of military forces

Frankly, I kind of like the production points system. It's crude, and limited, but it does give a better sense of what a country's economy is actually like as opposed to "Good" or "Strong" or "Imploded." That stuff's vague.

Maybe it is number-crunching, but it could potentially be a lot more flexible than the skeletal and sketchy version used for the war, and it prevents god-modding and gives you an impression of what you can do. I've actually been hoping for something like that for a while.

actually the point system isn't really what i have a problem with, since really i just post what i want to do once a year and then GB keeps up with the rest(i hope :P) i just hate using corps instead of divisions.

In other news the Federated States of Yugoslavia has become the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia after Tito took power and an attempt on his life failed.

You can shoot him, but you can't bring him down! And everyone....don't mind the irony of the facist take over :P there won't be too much of that in the future i hope, unless I HAVE TO DO IT.

My concerns are similar to Yugos. It's not exactly the points I have a problem with, it's the level of combat. BTW, Vas, I'm going to update the French News thread ina few minutes. Any reconstruction help would be appreciated.

My concerns are similar to Yugos. It's not exactly the points I have a problem with, it's the level of combat. BTW, Vas, I'm going to update the French News thread ina few minutes. Any reconstruction help would be appreciated.

well, if we can avoid the Third World War for a while, we should be able to avoid multi front combat involving hundreds of divisions and thousands of aircraft.

I can live without it, but I will also be watching, and if Japan suddenly shows up with 20 aircraft carriers when it could barely afford 10 in real life I am going to cheerfully ignore them.

The problem I see is that we had nations building things they could in no way shape or form have really afforded to pay the upkeep on, much less actually build or purchase. Anyone remember Ecuadors battle cruiser? How about those 20 Chinese heavy cruisers (when even the US and British and Japanese navies had that many between them?)

See my point?

Uhmm... I never said I was building 20 battlecruisers. I was adhering to the Washington Naval Treaty which allowed me 4 capital ships which were going to be 4 battleships, but with the dissolution of the Washington Naval Treaty, I ended up with 2 battleships and 4 heavy cruisers by the onset of Great War 2.

Where or what made you think I was building 20 battlecruisers? You must have me mixed up with someone else.

That aside, what is to happen to all the builds that were gonna be taking place from March / April to Jan. 1927?

I just issued formal warnings to both Lesser Ribena and Fluffywuffy regarding noninvolvement. If I do not receive a response within three days, I will accept applications for a new British and/or a new Italian player.

Well, the time has come. The vote is going to the Reichstag on whether to fully merge the governments of the USDR and the Worker's Republic. Discussions are being held with the Union Governments about the new governments.

OOC: Yay for the army

My Lieutenant made the work schedule for the next month and guess what, I'm only scheduled 6 days off(stupid fucking officers and there goddamn 14 days off a month). And I've had 3 of them already. My next scheduled Days off are Thanksgiving. So needless to say i'm going to be working a lot. Plus I've got shit going on in my Private Life I need to deal with, so for the moment I will be dropping out of E20 and handing over control of Japan to Manarth(Sharina Approved it) Oh and during this long stretch of me working i'm going from 10 hour shifts to 14 hour shifts. So yeah. I won't have a lot of free time. To those that talk to me on AIM, yes I'll be on about the same amount of time, but I will not have the time nor the energy to run a major power in this RP.

Now when december rolls around I'll have more days off then I'll be working, so I'm probably going to be coming back.



(part of the reason i didn't like the point system was that it was going to suck up a lot of my time, which i won't have a lot of)

Sad to see you go even if we were enemys. Hope to see you back here in december though! maybe when you come back we WONT be on the verge of war....at least i hope...

(GB/VP/Sharina...need your input on how Denmark and Norway would react.)

With the end of the second Great War, and without any clearcut victor or loser making another great war all but inevitable, Sweden has begun sending out envoys to neighboring Scandinavian countries. The countries of Denmark and Norway have been invited to join Sweden in a Scandinavian bloc. Offers of a mutual defense pact and an economic bloc are included. After watching neutral nations overun and dragged into wars not of their choosing Sweden is informing her neighbors that the only way to insure thier neutrality during the next war is to form together.

We need the mods to rule on the referandums in Trieste (more if Yugoslavia requests more) and various Yugoslavian areas. I provided some simple wikipedia links in the League of Nations thread, but those don't take into account the circumstances of our wars.

To clarify on exactly what Italy is calling a referandum on, it is essentially the Free Territory of Trieste

I dunno if Im going to be able to play as much... Im getting raped by Essays, Papers, Summaries, and Exams for the next two months. (Thus my short-tempered-ness)

Still here, but limited RP time, as always, by RL. That's why I took a little place like Chile.

We need the mods to rule on the referandums in Trieste (more if Yugoslavia requests more) and various Yugoslavian areas. I provided some simple wikipedia links in the League of Nations thread, but those don't take into account the circumstances of our wars.

To clarify on exactly what Italy is calling a referandum on, it is essentially the Free Territory of Trieste

Are we to assume that the huge amounts of Italians that fled in the invasion have returned in less than a month? I say we wait awhile for populations to even back out, and since you said soldiers can't be counted(a large part of both of our male populations just after a war) i think we should wait for the deactivations to go through etc so that people that the numbers would be closer to the figures you found.

[F]or the moment I will be dropping out of E20 and handing over control of Japan to Manarth (Sharina Approved it).

Now when december rolls around I'll have more days off then I'll be working, so I'm probably going to be coming back.

I understand it's temporary, but - ironically, I know, but my stuff's IC - I have some concerns about a single player controlling two countries, especially since Sharina didn't consult with either me or Galveston Bay.

I'd like to know how Manarth intends to play it. TG me.

Originally Posted by Fluffywuffy
We need the mods to rule on the referandums in Trieste (more if Yugoslavia requests more) and various Yugoslavian areas. I provided some simple wikipedia links in the League of Nations thread, but those don't take into account the circumstances of our wars.

To clarify on exactly what Italy is calling a referandum on, it is essentially the Free Territory of Trieste
As a man of Slovenian ancestry, I should probably recuse myself. Oridnarily I would expect something like the modern border to emerge from the various referenda.

However.

Something you may have missed, Fluffy, is that when the Pact pulled out of Italy, they (by my orders, as it happened) evacuated all Italian civilians they encountered, sinding them towards the Allied lines and essentially depopulating the entire area they held. If a referendum were held in Trieste right now, or in any of those areas, it would 100% Yugoslavian. You might want to deal with repopulating the area first. Assuming the Yugoslavs allow it.

(GB/VP/Sharina...need your input on how Denmark and Norway would react.)

With the end of the second Great War, and without any clearcut victor or loser making another great war all but inevitable, Sweden has begun sending out envoys to neighboring Scandinavian countries. The countries of Denmark and Norway have been invited to join Sweden in a Scandinavian bloc. Offers of a mutual defense pact and an economic bloc are included. After watching neutral nations overun and dragged into wars not of their choosing Sweden is informing her neighbors that the only way to insure thier neutrality during the next war is to form together.
I'll look into this, but I'm leaning towards acceptance. Sweden and Norway separated only recently, and Denmark and Norway were united before that. The three countries definitely have their differences, but they tend to get along better than not.

Finally, I just confirmed Cylea as Australia. He's relatively inexperienced, but seems intelligent and sensible enough to handle such a country.

the ceasefire terms were pretty specific, the Pact was supposed to withdraw from all Italian territory. However, the Yugoslavs will probably argue that Trieste and Pola are Yugoslav territory, so the US will recommend that the Yugoslavs keep the the Pola hex, and the Italians get the Trieste hex back.

the ceasefire terms were pretty specific, the Pact was supposed to withdraw from all Italian territory. However, the Yugoslavs will probably argue that Trieste and Pola are Yugoslav territory, so the US will recommend that the Yugoslavs keep the the Pola hex, and the Italians get the Trieste hex back.
Moscow will back that proposal.

I will agree to that as well.(since it is pretty close to what really happened) As i have said i don't really see the point of have ethnic polls going around the world, but if Italy demands to have one i have no problem with that, though they should probably take a hard look at their own colonies and lands under occupation before trying to spread freedom elsewhere.

Well... Having sent a TG to Vas hopefully that'll clear things up. Nothing like logging on only to remember that thing your friend told you earlier in the day has actually happened.

Pending any objections I'm now both Japan and Argentina. Please TG me with anything at all reguarding these two nations, though I can access Clan's TGs, I don't really want to. If you have a problem with the objectivity of me RPing both nations, please TG me the nature of the objection first, and I will try my best to explain the mitigating circumstances. If that still doesn't convince you, TG GB, Vas or Sharina so that they can chastize me, chastize you for bothering them, and/or give one of the nations to a new player.

For ease of use (mine) I'll continue to post both as Manarth and (yours) I'll tag in the title of either one Japan or Argentina so you can know which of my personas is talking. If it's just me, it'll say OOC like this one does.

Switch to Japan

And Spain, shame on you for starting the non-allied powers. That was my job.

Snip.
I consider the matter successfully clarified. That's all I was asking, after all.

OOC: Consider this an official apology.

I'm sorry for not being around the past few days and for a lack of involvement recently, i've just had to finish two essays in three days for Geography and Economics. I have simply not had time to check anything on the internet until now and that includes Nationstates and these forums. My lack of involvement appears to have affected a few matters and so for that I apologise profusely. However my work load has lightened somewhat and hence I am able to return to NS and this RP and hope to get everything sorted out shortly, posts will be made in the war thread and the league of nations as well as an update on my news thread and anything else that I notice. However it is possible that I may miss something so if you need my input on anything just post here and i'll be onto it.

Once again sorry for my lack of involvement it wasn't through any factors that I could control.

I am working sorting out everything that happened during the war, plus working on an accurate and reasonably comprehensive point system for economics. I plan to post were everyone will be effective January 1, 1929 by Monday, which takes into consideration post war adjustments, economic recovery, demobilization, and the like.

I am also handing over control of the United States to another player effective that date as well, and from now on I will handle all NPC countries, plus continue to referee military and economic matters.

At this point, it is still 1926, but nobody is real excited about continuing the war or starting a new one. (as 1927 would start on Monday in the normal course of events). I want to move up to 1929, because that way, I don't have to keep track of the steadily adjusting up and down of everyone's economies as they deal with the postwar situation, and demobilize etc.

I would like everyone to post what military forces they want to have by 1929 (the military thread or the Second Great War thread would be my preference), and for this purpose, unless you had something under construction already, assume your exchequer (treasury for the American players) jumped up and down and threatened to hold their breath until they turned blue to prevent you from starting new projects as the debt loads and tax loads were pretty high, and in Socialist and Democractic countries the electorate demanded change, yesterday if possible.

Even in non democratic countries there would a strong possibility of civil unrest, potentially massive unrest, if wartime economies were kept.

For 1926 assume you had your full point totals, but in 1927 and 1928 you had half at most, and should really have a third unless you can justify why you need more (Russia has done so, no one else has made a case yet). If you stay at half instead of a third, expect your 1929 available points to go down as your economic measures are stifling natural growth for planned growth and that is usally far less efficient.

OK, i'll start on my post war military then, probably reduce army strength substantially due to post war demobilisation and redistribute any surplus navy units to the new Commonwealth nations as they will be pretty weak until they can build their forces up.

Incidentally any British Empire nations (or other interested parties) please see the British News Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9912466)for the imminent widespread independence of many ex-British territories.

Agreed. I will try to create some post war numbers, most likely, the state of Armed Neutrality we have will to be rescinded, and numbers active in the military will be cut in half as people go home back to their regular jobs, farms, etc.

And I too, must apologize for my truancy here, RL stuff has not been kind to me. Alas, college apps are a necessary evil....

Just one hting: the war is officially over, yes?

Agreed. I will try to create some post war numbers, most likely, the state of Armed Neutrality we have will to be rescinded, and numbers active in the military will be cut in half as people go home back to their regular jobs, farms, etc.

And I too, must apologize for my truancy here, RL stuff has not been kind to me. Alas, college apps are a necessary evil....

Just one hting: the war is officially over, yes?

yes, the war is over

Quick question was the Ottoman Empire even on wartime economic plans? Anyways the Ottoman Army which was called for wartime standing, is now begining demobilization about it. If I was on wartime econ, then the Government has began to slowly change the econ to peacetime.

GB can you RP some NPC's joining the UUN as it appears that we will decline into a coldwar like state and many nations joined the Unaligned Nations Treaty or whatever it was called during the RL coldwar...So yea maybe if we get some NPC nations we can also get some PC ones to join....like belgium, burgundy, switzerland and other neutrals...

Vas Check your TG's

Bulgaria changes to a peacetime economy if we had not already done so...and willing to move to a stable peacetime standing for everyone...

Sport is starting to take hold with Association Football, Basketball, Athletics, and several other sports starting to become popular among Bulgaria's youth as well as Gymnastics (thank you, Parthini), Fencing (same to Jensai, Kordo and Fluffywuffy), and Swimming...

Imporant event for all to know and see
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9929111&postcount=220

Since a lot of people are doing Five Year Plans (I created a monster, apparently . . .), and since 1932 is an American election year, I'd like to suggest jumping forward to 1932, instead of 1929.

a few things...

a new economic thread is up, and also I need military forces you want to have as of 1932. I have noticed lots and lots of tanks, which is all well and good, but you might want to see how effective mechanized forces are against cities and in rough and forest terrain before you buy too many. In addition, the newest point system replaces all others. Yes that means the units are more expensive in some cases, but some units are cheaper as well (such as aircraft) then they were in the early part of the war.

In addition, the US would have conducted some diplomatic activity post war
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9937598&postcount=350

SIC: The Japanese Government approaches the Dutch government, inquiring about the possibility of purchasing the East Indies from them and if not the whole than possibly just the Island of Borneo.


OOC: I would think the Dutch would realize by now the Indefensibilty of those islands and since I'm already getting a production point from them anyway......

They might also realize that if another war were to break out, that they might not be able to defend themselves and the islands. I mean whats to stop USDR(pact) from Invading the Netherlands so that China(pact) can secure the DEI. But if they were to get rid of the colonies to a third neutral party (i.e. me), their nation more than likely would not be targeted or attacked. Because going though the netherlands would be rough to attack the USDR because they could just flood their country. Would make it hardly worth it.

SIC: The Japanese Government approaches the Dutch government, inquiring about the possibility of purchasing the East Indies from them and if not the whole than possibly just the Island of Borneo.


OOC: I would think the Dutch would realize by now the Indefensibilty of those islands and since I'm already getting a production point from them anyway......

They might also realize that if another war were to break out, that they might not be able to defend themselves and the islands. I mean whats to stop USDR(pact) from Invading the Netherlands so that China(pact) can secure the DEI. But if they were to get rid of the colonies to a third neutral party (i.e. me), their nation more than likely would not be targeted or attacked. Because going though the netherlands would be rough to attack the USDR because they could just flood their country. Would make it hardly worth it.

The United States and I am sure the British and Australians will pressure them the other way, in addition, Britain owns a lot of Borneo.

They join the LTA, and they will get American troops to defend the Netherlands if they want them, and the US Navy to defend the Dutch East Indies.

The United States and I am sure the British and Australians will pressure them the other way, in addition, Britain owns a lot of Borneo.

They join the LTA, and they will get American troops to defend the Netherlands if they want them, and the US Navy to defend the Dutch East Indies.

Ah, but if they would want to remain neutral, Which i believe the Dutch would, it would be less of a liability because there would be no value for either the LTA or the Pact to attack their nation. Plus the Dutch not joining the LTA would make the Netherlands a better neutral ground for an international organization. Joining the LTA would make their country a front in the next war to get trashed. Because seriously, who doesn't think the LTA and Pact aren't going to square off again. And the next war is going to be nastier than the last. If the Dutch aren't aware of that, then they are not too bright. I honestly think they would rather keep their neutrality.

I think WWIII is going to be huge, and I think that that one won't have a negotiated settlement. It's going to be Berlin or death, or to Rome or ruin.

a few things...

a new economic thread is up, and also I need military forces you want to have as of 1932. I have noticed lots and lots of tanks, which is all well and good, but you might want to see how effective mechanized forces are against cities and in rough and forest terrain before you buy too many. In addition, the newest point system replaces all others. Yes that means the units are more expensive in some cases, but some units are cheaper as well (such as aircraft) then they were in the early part of the war.

In addition, the US would have conducted some diplomatic activity post war
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9937598&postcount=350

What I had planned for China's military was to retain all of its Navy and have 14 garrisons, 6 fighters (and the 1 bomber and maritime plane unit), and 5 HQ's.

Most of the garrisons and fighters should have been completed by Jan. 1927 (finishing my wartime year and the remaining wartime points I had) then the rest could have been built from 1927 - 1932, I guess.

I won't expand my military any more beyond these numbers until WW 3 does break out and China is forced to get involved again.

Rome? Hahaha! You must mean Washington! Muhahaha! Rome will be but a stepping sto...

Erm... Yeah, peace....

Parthini']Rome? Hahaha! You must mean Washington! Muhahaha! Rome will be but a stepping sto...

Erm... Yeah, peace....


I hear Salt Lake City is beautifu.............ummm yeah, peace, thats it.

Ah, but if they would want to remain neutral, Which i believe the Dutch would, it would be less of a liability because there would be no value for either the LTA or the Pact to attack their nation. Plus the Dutch not joining the LTA would make the Netherlands a better neutral ground for an international organization. Joining the LTA would make their country a front in the next war to get trashed. Because seriously, who doesn't think the LTA and Pact aren't going to square off again. And the next war is going to be nastier than the last. If the Dutch aren't aware of that, then they are not too bright. I honestly think they would rather keep their neutrality.

neutrality certainly saved Belgium and Burgundy didn't it?

I think WWIII is going to be huge, and I think that that one won't have a negotiated settlement. It's going to be Berlin or death, or to Rome or ruin.

you are almost certainly right.. with any luck it won't be until the US has B29s or even B36s

GB- just wondering are you still going to remain as the USA player for now since you said that you plan to leave playing as the US and goes as someone else or have we found a new semi ok player to the take the role, now?

GB- just wondering are you still going to remain as the USA player for now since you said that you plan to leave playing as the US and goes as someone else or have we found a new semi ok player to the take the role, now?

for now I will remain the US...

neutrality certainly saved Belgium and Burgundy didn't it?


They were in a poor position to be neutral(right in the way of the pact), the Dutch on the other hand stayed neutral and came through the war unscathed.

you are almost certainly right.. with any luck it won't be until the US has B29s or even B36s


::shudders at the thought::

Thats definetly NOT cool :-p

Just a head's up that I'm going to be gone for most of today and more of tomorrow.

I will formally switch over the year to 1932 on Saturday. This should give people enough time to fine-tune their plans for the intervening years.

We need a Netherlands. Why is no-one interested? Sex, drugs, and wooden shoes don't appeal to people?

And you call yourselves teenage boys. I'm ashamed of you.

I was wondering, that if i offered a program to improve and industrialize Borneo, i.e. Schools, healthcare, substantial investment especialy in their oil industries (which of the islands makes the DEI's Rubber out of curiosity) that after a few years that the Netherlands might be willing to sell? Basically i make it really worth their while. Also, I'm wondering if I offer the Dutch a treaty of Alliance, since i'm neither the LTA or the Pact, that they might accept having a big brother more or less to look after their far east possesions. They can be reminded that japan has consistently looked after French Indochina, always pressuring the chinese to not attack. And that Japan has more local forces available that can respond quicker to any attack by britain, australia or china.

hey, I told Hrst this but he doesn't seem to have noticed, i'm stepping down from my duties both as New Zion and as History Mod, there's just too much going on for me to keep up with (plus I recently started a College course which I desperatly want to pass) so New Zion is now NPC.

Important things to know about Colonial Borneo

the map

http://www.isd.net/rhedlund/Borneo2003/Image5.jpg

Sarawak, Brunei, and Sabah are essentially British (as in client states or under direct British rule), the remainder is Dutch controlled. Brunei and Balikpapan are the principal oil producing areas, and both have very high quality crude oil. Shell Oil (Royal Dutch at this point), British Petroleum, and Texaco (as in the US company) are the principal operators of the fields. All of central Borneo is either barely explored or unexplored, notable for headhunters and orangutans.

The population is fairly small as well, and mostly clustered on the coast line.

The Dutch East Indies produce for export oil, rubber, spices (of all types), exotic woods (teak etc), and are extremely valuable to the Netherlands. I simply cannot see them selling. As far as allying with anyone, its very unlikely they would Ally with Japan if they won't join the LTA or Pact.

They also keep sufficient troops and ships in the area to require a real fight to take them, a fight that would take long enough for someone else to intervene. Most likely the Americans and British.

Playing off fears of the British isn't a strong arguement, the British have conquered the colony twice in history and given it back to the Dutch each time.

Heh, the Dutch... the underdogs of the Colonialism.

And what's with all of this bribing crap? If I build up Burgundy, will they join me?

Parthini']Heh, the Dutch... the underdogs of the Colonialism.

And what's with all of this bribing crap? If I build up Burgundy, will they join me?

probably would have if the German Army hadn't crushed them like a bug during the 2nd Great War. Burgundy would be far more likely to join the French, but the French attacked them as well. So for now they chose independence and a military alliance with the nations that liberated them and rebuilt their economies post war (the LTA nations).

OK, about my sending points to Denmark and Norway, heres the reason.

During the war I started a Scandinavian alliance and economic bloc, though I don't think many people otehr than the mods noticed. Thats the basis, from there I want to expand that into a sort of early EU, instead itll be called teh Scandinavian Union(not good with names). All 3 nations will elect people, theyll be a president exc exc, but all 3 nations will of course remain independant.

part of the SU's immediate mandate will be to standardize many of the simpelr things across the member nations, small things that you wouldn't really notice. Open up borders exc. Because Sweden is the richest of the 3 and I have all those extra poitns I'll be spending points in the SU to help bring up the other 2 nations to my level, and get some nice brownie points. Over the eyars I'd like to slowly see the SU gain more power and the individual nations lose power, slowly. Maybe by 38 or 39 we'll have integrated our militaries exc. Till it becomes the point where the SU is the nation and Denmark, Sweden and Norway are all just states within the nation. I know it'll take years but hey, its the only way I can expands so I'm willing to wait.


So? Mods..comments, feasability?

OK, about my sending points to Denmark and Norway, heres the reason.

During the war I started a Scandinavian alliance and economic bloc, though I don't think many people otehr than the mods noticed. Thats the basis, from there I want to expand that into a sort of early EU, instead itll be called teh Scandinavian Union(not good with names). All 3 nations will elect people, theyll be a president exc exc, but all 3 nations will of course remain independant.

part of the SU's immediate mandate will be to standardize many of the simpelr things across the member nations, small things that you wouldn't really notice. Open up borders exc. Because Sweden is the richest of the 3 and I have all those extra poitns I'll be spending points in the SU to help bring up the other 2 nations to my level, and get some nice brownie points. Over the eyars I'd like to slowly see the SU gain more power and the individual nations lose power, slowly. Maybe by 38 or 39 we'll have integrated our militaries exc. Till it becomes the point where the SU is the nation and Denmark, Sweden and Norway are all just states within the nation. I know it'll take years but hey, its the only way I can expands so I'm willing to wait.


So? Mods..comments, feasability?


I can live with that, but then, I think I suggested it a while back too

I can live with that, but then, I think I suggested it a while back too

Lol, where do you think I got the original idea from...anyway, by when do you think we'd be integrated enough that I'd be able as a player to run all 3 nations.

Parthini']Heh, the Dutch... the underdogs of the Colonialism.

And what's with all of this bribing crap? If I build up Burgundy, will they join me?
We'd have a much, much better chance with Czechoslovakia. Perhaps after the Five Year Plan . . .

And, before you freak, Kamerad, I myself ruled that Burgundy would probably join the LTA, along with Belgium. Blame it on France. If they hadn't fallen so obscenely fast, we would've had a chance to build a more positive presence in Burgundy.

By the way, the new diplomatic Thread for the Union (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=454416)is up, though still in process. I'll be editing it into the Main Post when I formally change over the year on Saturday. I guess 1932 will only last the weekend, since '33 will start on Monday. I don't have a problem with that. If anyone else does, let me know because I can just as easily postpone the changeover till Monday to give us a full week of '32.

Just reiterating that I won't be available for posting or making any rulings until late tonoight, and possibly not till tomorrow.

ZOMFG! Waht wuz teh madder wid j00!

j/k

As much as it perturbs me, you know how I feel about annexing territories :p I believe I remember there being some social unrest a while ago in Luxemburg...

Revolution anyone? :)

If there was a popular uprising France would have no choice but to intervene on the side of democracy and justice. :)

the social unrest was back when Luxembourg had a player, which at this point is over 25 years ago. I would think that the Socialists in Burgundy would have some serious creditability problems seeing as the French and Germans conquered the place toward the end of the 2nd Great War.

In addition, Burgundy signed the LTA treaty, and I wouldn't think the French government would be too keen about going to war with the LTA again, nor do the Russians seem terribly excited about it.

It's all in jest my friend. I assure you. :p

HAHAHA! Jest... yes... all jest....

In other news today, King Umberto II has proclaimed himself Emperor of all Russias, Kaiser of Germany, President of the United States, and God. He demands that all people visit St. Peter's Basilica, where virgins will be sacrificed in his honor. He may also share the virgins with people he likes.

j/k

the social unrest was back when Luxembourg had a player

aaah good times, it was pre Realism Mod so it was very unrealistic, I have quit by the way I just felt the need to remember my old Luxembourg times.

(I am Spooty)

Algerian News thread

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9954006#post9954006

I intend to add some research projects available to tech level 6 nations this weekend. However, they will not be available to research until the 1933 turn (for simplicity sake). I also intend to add in some game effects for some of the ones already proposed by various countries.

Okay guys, assuming I did everything right, I am going to max out my build points in 1934. I'll have more points than I can use (I could probably buy my entire military over again on national effort), so I'd just have left over points. With all these union type things going on, I've decided to ask if I can send points to Albania in an attempt to have them peacefully join Italy. If not getting Albania to join Italy formally, is it possible for me to have them as an economic vassal and therefore get more points because of that?

Another question, one which really should go into the economics thread: do colonies count toward your overall population, and if so, do any factories that go over your population limit have to be built in the colony?

I thought all the Italian supporters are dead lol, something about a military coup after they relied too much on Italian power to try and disrupt peacekeeping operations? Is the military still in control?

It probably still is in control, but if I offer enough shiny new fighters, shipping units, etc. they might just wanna be my best buddy again. *looks at various other random nations* I'm sure you want to be Italy's best buddy, don't you?:mad:

It probably still is in control, but if I offer enough shiny new fighters, shipping units, etc. they might just wanna be my best buddy again. *looks at various other random nations* I'm sure you want to be Italy's best buddy, don't you?:mad:

Heh. I wonder why Albania would be interested in joining Italy. Do they have a large ethnic Italian populace, or did they have close ties to Italy historically in RL? Just wondering where or what this Italian + Albanian Union is coming from.

With all these union type things going on, I've decided to ask if I can send points to Albania in an attempt to have them peacefully join Italy. If not getting Albania to join Italy formally, is it possible for me to have them as an economic vassal and therefore get more points because of that?
Do you remember what happened the last time you got involved in the Balkans?

If you ever even mention Italy getting involved in the Balkans again, I swear I will deal with you once and for all.

KEEP. OUT.

You remember the last time you tried to cross the Alps! This time, there is but one, more easily defended, front.


Sharina, historically Albania became a sort of economic vassal for Italy, which was later invaded and annexed. Italy paid for the Albanian military (which did happen in this TL) and loaned Albania lots of money (also happened) in order to keep King Zog (who was not supported in this TL) in power, and lessen Serb influence. Italy emerged as the sole protector of Albania (sorta happened).

But that damn coup throws a wrench in my plans, I think....

EDIT:

Any other small/underdeveloped nations want some build points? I've got 91 to spare....

You remember the last time you tried to cross the Alps!
That was because I didn't see the map before issuing my orders. You really want a rematch? I already killed four million Italians. You'd think a guy would know when to quit.

One would think, but I am an arrogant and aggressive little bugger.

You remember the last time you tried to cross the Alps! This time, there is but one, more easily defended, front.


Sharina, historically Albania became a sort of economic vassal for Italy, which was later invaded and annexed. Italy paid for the Albanian military (which did happen in this TL) and loaned Albania lots of money (also happened) in order to keep King Zog (who was not supported in this TL) in power, and lessen Serb influence. Italy emerged as the sole protector of Albania (sorta happened).

But that damn coup throws a wrench in my plans, I think....

EDIT:

Any other small/underdeveloped nations want some build points? I've got 91 to spare....


you could always just give them to me....

Well, Gintopar, I've established a protocol for getting my extra points (see the economic thread). Basically, telegram me and say what you can offer me in exchange for x amount of points. No, I will not give any one nation 91 points....

what year is this I'm thinking off rejoining. I have nothing to do. I won't take Ukraine again I'll pick another country as soon as I can figure out which one I want. I hope He lets me join as the reason I wasn't active before was because my computer crashed repetitively and I was moving to so I want to actually get into this and consistently RP.

what year is this I'm thinking off rejoining. I have nothing to do. I won't take Ukraine again I'll pick another country as soon as I can figure out which one I want. I hope He lets me join as the reason I wasn't active before was because my computer crashed repetitively and I was moving to so I want to actually get into this and consistently RP.
Never mind it's 1926 duh