NationStates Jolt Archive

After reading through the post Vineyard quoted I want to clarify something.

1. Earth V operates in the 2015 - 2020 tech level range

Is that still true now or has the time/tech period change to something else since that was posted?

Thanks, to whoever answers my question.

I thought we RPed MT.. as in... 2006.

I thought we RPed MT.. as in... 2006.

So did I, that's what I'm asking for clarification.

Looking at the ORBATs, I would say it was MT.

After reading through the post Vineyard quoted I want to clarify something.



Is that still true now or has the time/tech period change to something else since that was posted?

Thanks, to whoever answers my question.


That statement comes from the pre-revamped Earth V. The revamped Earth V is solely 2006 tech, and 2006 time. Unless I misunderstand TG6R... but the 2015-2020 does not apply here... until by some happenstance miracle, this RP survives to 2020...

Ok I realize you wish to keep your Earth in a MT timeline. However I wish you would warm to the idea that representives of a space based race might run across your Earth during their travels ( which does change the fact that you are still MT ) and just decide to drop in for a visit. You have to admit it would cause quite a stir among the countries of your Earth. So I offer RPing such a race to add some spice to your same ol same ol world events.

Ok I realize you wish to keep your Earth in a MT timeline. However I wish you would warm to the idea that representives of a space based race might run across your Earth during their travels ( which does change the fact that you are still MT ) and just decide to drop in for a visit. You have to admit it would cause quite a stir among the countries of your Earth. So I offer RPing such a race to add some spice to your same ol same ol world events.

Dude this isnt Si-fi preschool time. I'm aposed to this idea. And ignoring it.

Ok I realize you wish to keep your Earth in a MT timeline. However I wish you would warm to the idea that representives of a space based race might run across your Earth during their travels ( which does change the fact that you are still MT ) and just decide to drop in for a visit. You have to admit it would cause quite a stir among the countries of your Earth. So I offer RPing such a race to add some spice to your same ol same ol world events.

An interesting idea.

Having an "world threat" or Roswell made real or stuff like that would make for some interesting RP as long as its well done and that it doesn't end up in IGNORE-fests like Dwafeldia Prime says he may do.

As long "visit" doesn't turn into "visitation"...

I'm fine with the idea.

I'm ok with it as long as they dont start shooting up people. Then Im ignoring it.

Dude this isnt Si-fi preschool time. I'm aposed to this idea. And ignoring it.



I don't believe you are the one that was addressed DP

I don't believe you are the one that was addressed DP

IDC. Im in this world so it involves me. This isnt a normal rp were it only involves ceritan people. This is a world it involves everybody in it.

The only thing I see with this is...

Some one from an outside source doing an extreeeemely delicate RP such as aliens and UFO's. I'd feel better if it were done by some one actually inside EV, and not an outside source.

The only thing I see with this is...

Some one from an outside source doing an extreeeemely delicate RP such as aliens and UFO's. I'd feel better if it were done by some one actually inside EV, and not an outside source.

I agree with this. And to add on I'd feal better if this didnt even happen, its stupid.

Let me make this clear:

We're Modern Tech.

Let me make this clear:

We're Modern Tech.


Thats Fine, I'm not trying to change your tech level. You have seen shows on TV where a modern tech earth is visited by beings from space I'm sure. I mean sooner or later you will run out of new senario's for your threads.
It was just an offer, I should have known you would take it the wrong way.

Thats Fine, I'm not trying to change your tech level. You have seen shows on TV where a modern tech earth is visited by beings from space I'm sure. I mean sooner or later you will run out of new senario's for your threads.
It was just an offer, I should have known you would take it the wrong way.

I support such an endeavour.

It'd be interesting to have some "different" stuff happen in Earth V. Here's some examples.

1. Earthquakes
2. Volcano eruptions
3. Asteroid impact (makes the world work together to avert the asteroid)
4. Alien vistation or such (where Kormanthor can come in)
5. War of the Worlds type of deal
6. Mega solar flares that wreak havoc with electronics on Earth

And so on.

Stuff like that should spice things up. If everything's just war or peace with no "events", it'd be boring, yes?

yeah i concur as I have jus r.p.ed a massive flood in Mozambique. (albeit I then annexed the country however)

Yeah Alien visitation could theoretically be possible.

I hearby give Komanthor permission to "probe" an unsuspecting South African. lol:p

lets let Kormanthor in. (its a very exclusive club we get all the perks like foot massages and a offical earth v T-shirt lol)

can someone help me with my national budget?

Thats Fine, I'm not trying to change your tech level. You have seen shows on TV where a modern tech earth is visited by beings from space I'm sure. I mean sooner or later you will run out of new senario's for your threads.
It was just an offer, I should have known you would take it the wrong way.

Goodbye.

No need for hostility here, Dwafelina Prime.

Kormanthor, feel free to post more here- I'm happy to have you here.

I support such an endeavour.

It'd be interesting to have some "different" stuff happen in Earth V. Here's some examples.

1. Earthquakes
2. Volcano eruptions
3. Asteroid impact (makes the world work together to avert the asteroid)
4. Alien vistation or such (where Kormanthor can come in)
5. War of the Worlds type of deal
6. Mega solar flares that wreak havoc with electronics on Earth

And so on.

Stuff like that should spice things up. If everything's just war or peace with no "events", it'd be boring, yes?

I agree its an interesting idea, however I do have some reservations with it that I would want worked out before I agree to have aliens visit our nice planet.

And Sharina you needn't worry, I plan on doing a RP soon that will not be just about war or peace. Hopefully, it will shake things up in Earth V abit.

OCC: And sharina I sent you a TG, if you answer my question I asked in the TG. I would be most greatful.

Whys Gran the smae color as me on the Map?

Can I claim Scotland and Crete? or just crete, if I'm too tiny

I recognize GSR because he is the author of Earth Five and Sharina because he holds a place of authority under GSR and he and I both started Earth Five in Canada. GSR I am sorry that you seem to be so threatened by me because I am FT. You seem not to understand that time waits on no man, instead it marches on into the Future. So in the end your Modern Tech will become past tech while my Future Tech becomes Modern Tech. I want you to know GSR that I am not your enemy. In fact I hold you and Earth Five in the highest regard. If for no other reason then you have weathered the NS community for so long.
Sharina I realize we had our differances in Earth Five but I respect you as well because you treated my friend VirginIncursion as a friend while she was a member of Earth V and NS. She is gone now, but she will never be forgotten if I have any say in it.

I think it would actually be kinda neat. The aliens and all...
Just a thought.

No need for hostility here, Dwafelina Prime.

Kormanthor, feel free to post more here- I'm happy to have you here.

I appreciate that Sharina, I leave my offer open indefinately. If when you all have decided that it could be a good idea just TG me ... I won't say good bye only ... Until we meet again.

I recognize GSR because he is the author of Earth Five and Sharina because he holds a place of authority under GSR and he and I both started Earth Five in Canada. GSR I am sorry that you seem to be so threatened by me because I am FT. You seem not to understand that time waits on no man, instead it marches on into the Future. So in the end your Modern Tech will become past tech while my Future Tech becomes Modern Tech. I want you to know GSR that I am not your enemy. In fact I hold you and Earth Five in the highest regard. If for no other reason then you have weathered the NS community for so long.
Sharina I realize we had our differances in Earth Five but I respect you as well because you treated my friend VirginIncursion as a friend while she was a member of Earth V and NS. She is gone now, but she will never be forgotten if I have any say in it.

Did she quit NS totally? I haven't seen her on the AIM in a long time as well. Is she doing OK?

I appreciate that Sharina, I leave my offer open indefinately. If when you all have decided that it could be a good idea just TG me ... I won't say good bye only ... Until we meet again.

Just go away. Nobody in there right mind wants this. if it happens I'm jsut ignoring it.

Can I claim Scotland and Crete? or just crete, if I'm too tiny
Crete is really not a good choice, as the island is under occupation by Alif Laam Miim (Egypt and more).

Scotland is free, and so are Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Even England and Wales *may* be available, because Whittlesfield has been very inactive here lately, and his "account" in Earth-V may be suspended due to inactivity.

North Ireland is counted as an island. But you're a tiny nation, so I'm not sure how much you're allowed to claim. Only TG6R (The Great Sixth Reich) has an answer to this.

Did she quit NS totally? I haven't seen her on the AIM in a long time as well. Is she doing OK?


She is fine and she didn't quit NS, rather she must have left her country unattended for to long because when she didi return VirginIncursion had been deleted. She wasn't very happy about it, but there was little to be done about it. I have included a storyline in my fact book concerning the death of VI. I plan to write a thread where I go into the country that was once VI to effect a rescue of survivors. If you are interested read the stortline and tell me what you think. I would welcome you to play a part in the rescue RP if you'd like.

Just go away. Nobody in there right mind wants this. if it happens I'm jsut ignoring it.

I don't recognize you DP as anyone important. Further I wasn't talking to you so please do keep quite.

I don't recognize you DP as anyone important. Further I wasn't talking to you so please do keep quite.

HELLO AGAIN. This is EV everything involves everyone. you cant just say it dosnt involve you. THats what sistan was doing. Futher more. Many people object to this. We should do it unless we all agree. Thankyou and GOODBYE.

She is fine and she didn't quit NS, rather she must have left her country unattended for to long because when she didi return VirginIncursion had been deleted. She wasn't very happy about it, but there was little to be done about it. I have included a storyline in my fact book concerning the death of VI. I plan to write a thread where I go into the country that was once VI to effect a rescue of survivors. If you are interested read the stortline and tell me what you think. I would welcome you to play a part in the rescue RP if you'd like.

Sounds like something worth a read and participation in. I'm game for good RP's, instead of the usual war RP's in mainstream NS. Has VI tried to get her nation restored by the mods? She can create a puppet nation, then use that puppet nation to ask the NS staff to restore her nation on the "Getting Help" page or something (I forgot exactly where).

HELLO AGAIN. This is EV everything involves everyone. you cant just say it dosnt involve you. THats what sistan was doing. Futher more. Many people object to this. We should do it unless we all agree. Thankyou and GOODBYE.

DP, please chill and settle down.

Kormanthor isn't about to go around invading everything in Earth V with space lasers or spaceships of d()()m. He could do something like alien abductions or an alien first contact or help Earth V nations blow up an incoming "dinosaur-killer" asteroid or stuff like that.

I want some variety in Earth V, like surprises and random events (like in RL- earthquakes, volcanos, floods, hurricanes, asteroids, and other stuff like that)

DP, please chill and settle down.

Kormanthor isn't about to go around invading everything in Earth V with space lasers or spaceships of d()()m. He could do something like alien abductions or an alien first contact or help Earth V nations blow up an incoming "dinosaur-killer" asteroid or stuff like that.

I want some variety in Earth V, like surprises and random events (like in RL- earthquakes, volcanos, floods, hurricanes, asteroids, and other stuff like that)

You'll be getting a nice surprise tomorrow. :D, everyone will. HHAHAHAHAHAAHHA

HELLO AGAIN. This is EV everything involves everyone. you cant just say it dosnt involve you. THats what sistan was doing. Futher more. Many people object to this. We should do it unless we all agree. Thankyou and GOODBYE.

While I'm not personally for or against alien visits [not visitations - as those tend to warp the entire purpose of an MT timeline...], this is an increasingly hostile ooc temper. First of all, it's only a suggestion. Second of all, at least he's polite enough to ask the opinion of the people in EV - which you seemingly decided to dispel completely because of some raw opinion. Third, there are more than many ways to reject a proposition, many of which do no involve becoming or inciting hostility, especially in an OOC setting.

I'm upset that you're taking these circumstances either too seriously or too belligerently, more than Kormanthor's insistance. But you know, I'd rather have an insistant character than a hostile one. It's an attitude like that that earns your reputation oocly.







And aside on that stuff, I've been notified several times about inactive folk, and while I personally many of the folk who are supposedly inactive, I haven't personally heard from them either. SOOO, in order to continue freeing the gamespace up to new opportunities and - as always - new players, I'm going to post another RED list by this evening. If they do not reply within 48 hours of its posting, or no one posts anything about their status, they will be stricken from the list and their territories fallen into collapse or free for new nations to acquire.

Also, to make certain that old states are not completely forgotten, I will be striking old significant states [like Whittlesfield] who once were active but now are not [probably due to school] in black and gray stripes, so people can recognize that there was once a functioning government that had a legitimate basis of international action and thus would not suddenly vanish from existence. This is more to avoid situations like Vineyard's confusing resurrection leading to a barrage of unreasonable ignores and all of that other good stuff. Furthermore, it adds to the activity anyway, instead of RPing general stuff like "so they come in and bomb the $$#^ out of everything. And that's how I conquered Rome" - that's stupid and furthermore, it's a hopeless case of "that's not a real RP"; "yes it is"; "no it's not"; "yes it is"; "no"; "yes"; "no"; "no"; "yes"; "no"; "dammit! YES IT IS"; "okay..." [read that through to see the joke... and think about it to realize another childish point...]

So, that's that. This will be updated in the Map thread as soon as I get the time to work on it, because I'm going to skidoo in about 20 minutes... and I've got to spend 15 minutes getting ready for it...

While I'm not personally for or against alien visits [not visitations - as those tend to warp the entire purpose of an MT timeline...], this is an increasingly hostile ooc temper. First of all, it's only a suggestion. Second of all, at least he's polite enough to ask the opinion of the people in EV - which you seemingly decided to dispel completely because of some raw opinion. Third, there are more than many ways to reject a proposition, many of which do no involve becoming or inciting hostility, especially in an OOC setting.

I'm upset that you're taking these circumstances either too seriously or too belligerently, more than Kormanthor's insistance. But you know, I'd rather have an insistant character than a hostile one. It's an attitude like that that earns your reputation oocly.







And aside on that stuff, I've been notified several times about inactive folk, and while I personally many of the folk who are supposedly inactive, I haven't personally heard from them either. SOOO, in order to continue freeing the gamespace up to new opportunities and - as always - new players, I'm going to post another RED list by this evening. If they do not reply within 48 hours of its posting, or no one posts anything about their status, they will be stricken from the list and their territories fallen into collapse or free for new nations to acquire.

Also, to make certain that old states are not completely forgotten, I will be striking old significant states [like Whittlesfield] who once were active but now are not [probably due to school] in black and gray stripes, so people can recognize that there was once a functioning government that had a legitimate basis of international action and thus would not suddenly vanish from existence. This is more to avoid situations like Vineyard's confusing resurrection leading to a barrage of unreasonable ignores and all of that other good stuff. Furthermore, it adds to the activity anyway, instead of RPing general stuff like "so they come in and bomb the $$#^ out of everything. And that's how I conquered Rome" - that's stupid and furthermore, it's a hopeless case of "that's not a real RP"; "yes it is"; "no it's not"; "yes it is"; "no"; "yes"; "no"; "no"; "yes"; "no"; "dammit! YES IT IS"; "okay..." [read that through to see the joke... and think about it to realize another childish point...]

So, that's that. This will be updated in the Map thread as soon as I get the time to work on it, because I'm going to skidoo in about 20 minutes... and I've got to spend 15 minutes getting ready for it...

Hey I tried to be nice before. But he repeatedly told me to "shutup" or be quit becase this dosnt concern me. Then I explained to him that it does and he continues to tell me to be quit. So after that I dont play Mr. Nice Guy.

I like to think I would have a very simple way of solving this alien invasion quandry: let me in the game with england or scotland
Hah
Thats not really going to solve it, I just figure I should be at least recognized before I give an opinon

Go for it, an English nation would have the support of the Confederacy.

The world in a 100 years. (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/darth_avondale/PrimeWorld_world.png)

just a guess.

Now that I like :D

lol

The world in a 100 years. (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/darth_avondale/PrimeWorld_world.png)

just a guess.

Two problems. Well more then two but two main ones. What the Hell! You'll regret taking Venezuela from me. :upyours:, :D

And two. You really screwed Military Command out of territory. LMAO, don't worry my friend to the south and north of me. I got lots of land in Africa I can share with you. See I'm nice and willing to share. :D

Atleast you lefted me my Indian Holdings. See I told you all the Indian Ocean was my little play area.

BTW, you should see my vision of the world in a hundred years. Its not so nice. :D

Heh- I don't think Dwafelina Prime will be able to conquer my Central and South America holdings. In fact, it'll probably be me who annexes the entirety of Dwafelina Prime in South America. ;)

:rolleyes: Heh- I don't think Dwafelina Prime will be able to conquer my Central and South America holdings. In fact, it'll probably be me who annexes the entirety of Dwafelina Prime in South America. ;)

When you do that, just leave me alone. I'm content to sit that war out in my nice beach resort in Venzuela. Don't feel to bad though, he did annex his allies territory, so I guess he was no longer my ally. Poor him.

Hey I never said any of that came through war. I could have come through trade. lol

The most awaited list for the week.

THE EARTH V RED LIST:
Whittlesfield
H-Town Tejas
Vietnamexico

If your name is on this list, you have been cited either for non-existant or a very long period of inactivity. Since I'm pretty nice about how people disappear, especially with school going on for a lot of people everywhere...

So here's the deal: convince me somehow within the next 48 hours that you are still active enough to stay on EV, and your name will come off this list. If you neither reply nor convince me [or more importantly TG6R], you shall hereafter be stricken from the list. Being stricken from the list doesn't mean that you are banned, but the nation that you once claimed for yourself is now freed to new people, who are ready and willing to tear it up into pieces [as is evidenced by current circumstances, despite the presence equally ready, open, and available territories elsewhere...]

So - 48 hours. After that, it's farewell to thee.

AS SUCH - any claims to the territories at present will not be recognized until after the 48 hours has terminated. If there is a new player, the territory will be on reserve [as it has been I believe for a few people - it was more de facto reservation than de jure however...] for that new player. AFTER 48 hours, the territory is freed again, and people can start doing stuff with it as they please.

SO...

If Whittlesfield makes no indication that he's still active in EV [as he is still relatively active in NS in general...], Dekapolis will have the first picks in taking his former territories [in whole or in part]. Personally, I'd like to have a past record, since Dekapolis is apparently a new ID, and I'd doubt that you are a complete newbie. So I think for personal preference [unless TG6R or Sharina know you], try to post up a resume, although other people have gotten on here without similar credentials and are doing modestly fine... But anyway, that's that on the map claim part. Anything else will not be recognized until after the period has expired.

And my view of the world in a few hundred years is a big blackhole, so at least I'm fair.

Hey I never said any of that came through war. I could have come through trade. lol

Heh. What makes you think I'd give up my nice Central + South American holdings and Caribbean stuff in a trade? What do you possibly have to offer for all these lands that I already have plenty of (uranium, oil, metals, food, tech, etc.)? ;-)

Two problems. Well more then two but two main ones. What the Hell! You'll regret taking Venezuela from me. :upyours:, :D

And two. You really screwed Military Command out of territory. LMAO, don't worry my friend to the south and north of me. I got lots of land in Africa I can share with you. See I'm nice and willing to share. :D

Atleast you lefted me my Indian Holdings. See I told you all the Indian Ocean was my little play area.

BTW, you should see my vision of the world in a hundred years. Its not so nice. :D

Hey my Asia holding are gone. I have only France and Britian?

Hey my Asia holding are gone. I have only France and Britian?



and he's your ally? :eek:

*bum-bum-bummmm...* :eek:

and he's your ally? :eek:

*bum-bum-bummmm...* :eek:

Well he was not offically made a member of EATO.

Heh- I don't think Dwafelina Prime will be able to conquer my Central and South America holdings. In fact, it'll probably be me who annexes the entirety of Dwafelina Prime in South America. ;)

Speaking of which DP, what's the deal with New England? - are me and Sharina going to have a war? :D

Hey my Asia holding are gone. I have only France and Britian?

Don't feel to bad, he stole Ven from me. I say we teach DP a lessen for taking our land. :D

Its Jsut A Guess!!!!!!!!

Its Jsut A Guess!!!!!!!!

Don't get so wound up, were just playing with you. Count to ten and take a deep breath. Call me in the morning if your, no nevermind don't call me. :D

In other news. I sent you a Telegram, when you get a chance Reply back to me.

Nation States is down I cant lol.

bah, a pox on nationstates!

Nation States is down I cant lol.

I know, when I sent it was working then it stop. Telegrams are evil, EVIL I TELL YOU! LMAO

lol

DP, please chill and settle down.

Kormanthor isn't about to go around invading everything in Earth V with space lasers or spaceships of d()()m. He could do something like alien abductions or an alien first contact or help Earth V nations blow up an incoming "dinosaur-killer" asteroid or stuff like that.

I want some variety in Earth V, like surprises and random events (like in RL- earthquakes, volcanos, floods, hurricanes, asteroids, and other stuff like that)


Sharina is correct

Sounds like something worth a read and participation in. I'm game for good RP's, instead of the usual war RP's in mainstream NS. Has VI tried to get her nation restored by the mods? She can create a puppet nation, then use that puppet nation to ask the NS staff to restore her nation on the "Getting Help" page or something (I forgot exactly where).

She hasn't had much luck with restoring the original VI, thats why I am writting the new thread. If nothing else we can use the thread to jumpstart a new country for her.

Sharina is correct

w/e

She hasn't had much luck with restoring the original VI, thats why I am writting the new thread. If nothing else we can use the thread to jumpstart a new country for her.

Gotcha. Just let me know when the thread's ready and you can give me the link to the thread and I'm there. :)

Hey guys whats going on?

I'm going to be absent for much of tomorrow and perhaps bits of Sunday. I'll try to get everything as up-to-date tonight before I go, but please make sure that it's clear and concise.

I finally posted the shakeup I promised as I awaken my Sharina nation from its long IC slumber (it was isolationist for a long while). Vietmexico has given me the perfect IC excuse to start my shakeup.

Gotcha. Just let me know when the thread's ready and you can give me the link to the thread and I'm there. :)

Cool, I'll let you know

Could I claim the countries under eastern russia? I'm not sure of their names.

First of all, one of those is currently being attacked by Asian China - the map hasn't been updated accurately yet...

Second of all, the countries you are looking at are Northeast China and North Korea.

Third of all [not really to you anymore...], PLEASE POST INITIAL CLAIMS IN OOC THREAD.

I'm not angry at you; I'm just frustrated that people keep telling me to add them, when I specifically say to do that here. I'm angry at people...:headbang:

I think if another peoeple claims, I'm going to edit it in big red letters not to post in the map thread...

IC conquests and annexes are perfectly fine; keep doing that, but make sure that 1- you're providing a source of the RP [unlike most people having doing...]; 2- you also post that IC claim in the IC thread, so people know... Of course, given that almost everyone at one point looks at the map thread anyway, you'd still might get away with it; but I'm not endorsing getting confusing claims and conquests...

So, that said, would you like North Korea? If you want Northeast China, you'll have to negotiate it with Asian China, as he's already started conquering it.

Adding, I'll try to update the map tonight, since I was waiting for United Earthlings...

Finally, I hit 1,000 posts! :D

Finally, I hit 1,000 posts! :D

Good for you, here have a cookie-http://www.creativetheatre.org/images/cookie.jpg

Let me know when you get tired of being a Pimp. :D
I'll be sheep farming if you need me. :fluffle:

In 1.5 hours, I vill be gone. ZOOO, anyzing needing adyuztmentz before I leave? Und iz mein UAE pacification going agreeably?

The most awaited list for the week.

THE EARTH V RED LIST:
Whittlesfield
H-Town Tejas
Vietnamexico


No, it's not quite 48 hours yet. But... since I won't be here then, I think it would be best if either TG6R or anyone else that isn't going to be directly involved in the landgrab follows gives a good pointer to allowing the land grab [I see we've got a couple sooners... :D]. That said, I've tried talking to Whittlesfield and Vietnamexico, and I have not received any reply. H-Town Tejas I think hasn't been active at all, but no one's said anything about it, so this list will maintain it's grace period for the 10 hours remaining in the countdown. I'm going to be absolutely fair, and thus this remains [of course, if I were truly absolutely fair, everyone would get everything without any hassle or complaint... but I'm not that... so... yea...]

Well, Hong Kong will always be there, I think I still saw a little blue dot but I wasn't sure ;) .

Well, I was thinking of expanding on my whole Bastions of Capitalism idea and was thinking of incorporation the cities of Hanoi, and Ho Chi Minh City, of course the names will be altered, maybe I'll keep it but I want to see how everyone else is with me incorporating some more territory.

H-Town Tejas I think hasn't been active at all,
He was active 16 hours ago, according to NS.

I've sent him a TG now. I would prefer to have him as my southern neighbor, but you'll never know what happens (thinking of Brinkman Isle)...

Yea, I claim Ireland/North Ireland/Scotland.

Name - The Gaelic Federation

Yargh, I'm back.

Yea, I claim Ireland/North Ireland/Scotland.

Name - The Gaelic Federation

Yargh, I'm back.

Hello!

Yo dude. Hope you're active, unlike the last guy who took those.

Yea, I claim Ireland/North Ireland/Scotland.

Name - The Gaelic Federation

Yargh, I'm back.
Welcome back! Good to have you here!
Is the Earth-II/Earth-V issue solved?

Yea, the Decree was abolished I think.

If there is a problem, I may chose to stay here.

Well the sooner I know I can RP, the better.

I know people are bussy >>

Well the sooner I know I can RP, the better.

I know people are bussy >>

Well hop aboard! Good to have you here!

IC-request to Military Command

I don't know if I've understood it right, but are you going to invade England when Whittelsfield is deleted due to inactivity?

If that's the case, I'm asking you to hold back, and be satisfied with the Brittany-part.

The reason is that we're having a new player who's interested in that part of the world. And my opinion is that we must let new players in, we cannot invade every free NPC-country.

The more players we have in Earth-V, the more fun we'll get - and that's why we're here, right? It's always fun with new (active) neighbors.

Just my two cents.

EDIT:
This is the claim-list, as I've understood it:
Dekapolis: England or Scotland.
Pyschotika: Ireland/North Ireland/Scotland

I would like to say that we can confirm Pyschotika's claims, and Dekapolis claim of England? Of course with the condition that Whittelsfield is deleted due to inactivity. I think it's about five hours 'til the 48-hour respite is gone.

IC-request to Military Command

I don't know if I've understood it right, but are you going to invade England when Whittelsfield is deleted due to inactivity?

If that's the case, I'm asking you to hold back, and be satisfied with the Brittany-part.

The reason is that we're having a new player who's interested in that part of the world. And my opinion is that we must let new players in, we cannot invade every free NPC-country.

The more players we have in Earth-V, the more fun we'll get - and that's why we're here, right?

Just my two cents.

I'll add my three cents to your two cents, and then have a nickel.

:D

I have to agree, if there is another person coming in then I guess the NCP dominion will not go under the evil conquering Military Command.

IC-request to Military Command

I don't know if I've understood it right, but are you going to invade England when Whittelsfield is deleted due to inactivity?

If that's the case, I'm asking you to hold back, and be satisfied with the Brittany-part.

The reason is that we're having a new player who's interested in that part of the world. And my opinion is that we must let new players in, we cannot invade every free NPC-country.

The more players we have in Earth-V, the more fun we'll get - and that's why we're here, right?

Just my two cents.

I will hold off right now on England but if I could work something out with The Gaelic Federation about this then I think that something can be workout. I will be happy if London, channel islands and the major ports that are in the English Channel.

Oh, schnap!

If it isn't too late -

Isle of Man if it is open, and Shetland if it is open.

Had to do it, Shetland...my precious oil...Man...my...pre...hmm

Oh, schnap!

If it isn't too late -

Isle of Man if it is open, and Shetland if it is open.

Had to do it, Shetland...my precious oil...Man...my...pre...hmm
:)
AFAIK no one has claimed these two islands/group of islands.

Your NS-populations is so large, so I cannot imagine TG6R not recognizing your claims.

Okay, I'm wondering something.
Why the hell is it that because I was inactive, Brinkman gets to RP instability, nay, open protesting within my nation? For the record, Indochina is a few notches above North Korea in its suppression of that kind of thing. It doesn't just "happen."
But, I'm here.

Oh, schnap!

If it isn't too late -

Isle of Man if it is open, and Shetland if it is open.

Had to do it, Shetland...my precious oil...Man...my...pre...hmm

Confirmed.

Say, all heil TG6R! :-P...

meh...

w00t!

Oh on the contraire dear sir! It is for that very reason that I'm aloud to do that. Your political and civil oppression combined with a neglectful government is a metaphorical hot bed for civil unrest.

Governments like North Korea's don’t work, that’s why they are starving.

However, since you are ‘back’ consider the outcry brutally crushed.

Oh on the contraire dear sir! It is for that very reason that I'm aloud to do that. Your political and civil oppression combined with a neglectful government is a metaphorical hot bed for civil unrest.

Governments like North Korea's don’t work, that’s why they are starving.

However, since you are ‘back’ consider the outcry brutally crushed.
I think you forgot to quote who you're responding to (H-Town Tejas?). :)

TG6R I would like to know if anyone has placed claim on England if not I would like to now if I can invade England?

Oh on the contraire dear sir! It is for that very reason that I'm aloud to do that. Your political and civil oppression combined with a neglectful government is a metaphorical hot bed for civil unrest.

Governments like North Korea's don’t work, that’s why they are starving.

However, since you are ‘back’ consider the outcry brutally crushed.

That isn't the point. You can't just run around RPing things happening inside other people's nations, especially when you're using it for your own ends. Don't think I just saw the unrest part and missed the Pro-Phillipines part.
I'll drop it, it happened to everyone else on the Red List, but let's not do it again.

TG6R I would like to know if anyone has placed claim on England if not I would like to now if I can invade England?
Remember about Pyschotika...

That isn't the point. You can't just run around RPing things happening inside other people's nations, especially when you're using it for your own ends. Don't think I just saw the unrest part and missed the Pro-Phillipines part.
I'll dismiss it as something that happens whenever someone goes on the Red List, but it won't happen again.

Well since he's back I am going to have to look to another country for new Basions of Capitalism.

*Sighs, and scoots map of BA under manila folder while leaving. While looking quite chipper....*

Remember about Pyschotika...

He has taken Ireland and Scotland

He has taken Ireland and Scotland
Correct. Feel free to try to take England. ;)

But, of course, there still will be a slight problem if you do decide to cross the channel.

H-Town Tejas

You have redeemd yourself, by being 3 hous shorts of the turn-of period.

Speaking of whch, I lamentfull open the followng tw countries on the map to clams:

Whttlesfeld
Vietnamexic

[FYI - I wont be making any changes until after I slep... must sleep... too druknk to care....... z...]

So anyways, thanks to all wh card to wait for the turn-off period!11

yae...

He was active 16 hours ago, according to NS.

I've sent him a TG now. I would prefer to have him as my southern neighbor, but you'll never know what happens (thinking of Brinkman Isle)...

thank u!11!1!

H-Town Tejas
Speaking of whch, I lamentfull open the followng tw countries on the map to clams:
Whttlesfeld
Vietnamexic
[FYI - I wont be making any changes until after I slep... must sleep... too druknk to care....... z...]
So anyways, thanks to all wh card to wait for the turn-off period!11
yae...

thank u!11!1!

OOC: No problem. I'm glad he's back. :)

But I'm worried over *your* actual status. There are so many typos, I can hardly read your message, and that's unusual...
Go to bed now, and come back when you can control your fingers again. :D

Cheers!

OOC: No problem. I'm glad he's back. :)

But I'm worried over *your* actual status. There are so many typos, I can hardly read your message, and that's unusual...
Go to bed now, and come back when you can control your fingers again. :D

Cheers!

I think he was in-toxiciated.

I think he was in-toxiciated.

He did say he was drunk. But, I don't know what was worse. Him being Drunk or half asleep. If you evered stayed up for long periods of time, its about as bad as being drunk. Expect, you don't wake up with a bad headache. :D

drunk = yea

head-ache fromm hangover = no

living in bathroom = yea

....


So I hope I never have enough social consciousness to get on here again when I like that, but more seriously, Whittlesfield is indeed back, and it seems to me that nearly everyone is willing to have him back [including Military Command who made some RP apparently to invade Brittany]. So if that's agreed then, I won't take Whittlesfield off. However, since I have no reason to do so, I am unfortunately going to have to delete Vietnamexico, even though I saw him about 3 days ago and tried to tell him about what was going on [he wasn't online...]

A note, Whittlesfield - PLEASE LOOK AT EV...that's your cue to something interesting. And to both guys that are still in, try to be more active. I understand RL interecedes at many point, making an online venture sometimes difficult. But, the rest of us need to know occasionally how your state is doing.

Posted my military stats. I figured I needed to re-post them as I remember making a post a while ago, but probably in the old threads. Anyways, now I have my military specs up.

Quake in fear. ;-P

High folks, I'm not part of the game nor do I wish to join. I come with a message from Sharina, who currently has problems with jolt but was able to send a message to me via a different game's chatzy:

Asian China, your attack was totally ridiculous, and should be immediately redone. There is no way a president would surrender like that, anbd even if he did his soldiers would never believe a surrender order like that, they would believe it to be propaganda. Your attack was too small to win against a China that holds most of China's heavy industry that can churn out tanks and other weapons of war. An attack in that magnitude would be seen by an ingenious invention called satellites, and if troops were on manuever they'd be out and moving. Your forces moved way too quickly with far too few casualties (5 airplanes?!) and if Northern China felt even partially threatened your nation would be glowing (a tactic used by nuclear powers backed against a wall). Sharina's trying to get on to explain more


The chatzy in case it's in question
http://www.chatzy.com/921930878279

High folks, I'm not part of the game nor do I wish to join. I come with a message from Sharina, who currently has problems with jolt but was able to send a message to me via a different game's chatzy:

Asian China, your attack was totally ridiculous, and should be immediately redone. There is no way a president would surrender like that, anbd even if he did his soldiers would never believe a surrender order like that, they would believe it to be propaganda. Your attack was too small to win against a China that holds most of China's heavy industry that can churn out tanks and other weapons of war. An attack in that magnitude would be seen by an ingenious invention called satellites, and if troops were on manuever they'd be out and moving. Your forces moved way too quickly with far too few casualties (5 airplanes?!) and if Northern China felt even partially threatened your nation would be glowing (a tactic used by nuclear powers backed against a wall). Sharina's trying to get on to explain more


The chatzy in case it's in question
http://www.chatzy.com/921930878279

Okay, now I'm finally back on Jolt after a few hours of problems.

Yes, I can confirm what Haneastic said. After reading Asian China's thread, I have but this to say.

"God came down to Earth V. He gazed upon Asian China's actions and shakes his elderly bearded head sadly. The Mighty One waves his hands for show, then snapped his right index finger and thumb together. Suddenly, the actions undertaken by Asian China simply ceases to be, and reverts back to pre-war status. God himself smiles, apparently satisified with His Work, and departs Earth V for other areas unknown."

One word.

Godmod.

Okay, now I'm finally back on Jolt after a few hours of problems.

Yes, I can confirm what Haneastic said. After reading Asian China's thread, I have but this to say.

"God came down to Earth V. He gazed upon Asian China's actions and shakes his elderly bearded head sadly. The Mighty One waves his hands for show, then snapped his right index finger and thumb together. Suddenly, the actions undertaken by Asian China simply ceases to be, and reverts back to pre-war status. God himself smiles, apparently satisified with His Work, and departs Earth V for other areas unknown."

One word.

Godmod.

is the invasion of northeast China undone? or of southwest china? or of them all? I'm trying to get this in order...

One word.

Godmod.
OOC: Thank you for the critique.
Maybe I ran through it too fast.

But now I'm a little confused about the nukes. Based on your explanation about the nukes, there seems to be these choices:

1) NE China will use nukes if they're invaded.
1.1) I must use nukes to counter-strike their defense. Otherwise it's godmod.
1.2) If we're about to not use nukes in Earth-V (I know it's not popular to use nukes, and I certainly agree to this), then the answer to this is that nations with nukes cannot be invaded.

2) NE China will not use nukes if they're invaded.
2.1) Then we are somewhere where my RP is – but I agree to make a more detailed and longer invasion.

What do you say? I'm a bit confused as I said, and I think I need some guidance before I continue...

I'm having some comments to your military declaration, Sharina.

Military Declaration of the Sharina Technocracy

Population of the Technocracy of Sharina: 418,249,534
Military Budget: $3,100,000,000
Available manpower in Active Duty: 12,540,000 (3%)
Available manpower in Reserves: 29,260,000 (7%)

I thought the rule said a maximum of 2% of the population in active duty, with an additional 3% in the reserves?
The 10% rule is for very militaristic-style countries like North Korea, right? But they will suffer economically from that, and it's certain that you don't do that.

300 B-3 stealth bombers (2nd generation of B-2 with 10% enhanced stealth, electronics, and payload)
500 B-2 stealth bombers
200 B-70 Valkyrie supersonic bombers
100 X-1 Aurora Reconissance Aircraft ***
50 X-2 Quicksliver Fighter Aircraft (fighter version of SR-91 Aurora)
50 SR-71 Blackbird Reconissance Aircraft

If we compare with the RL USA, their inventory is:
0 B-3 stealth bombers
21 B-2 stealth bombers
2 B-70 Valkyrie supersonic bombers
0 X-1 Aurora Reconissance Aircraft
0 X-2 Quicksliver Fighter Aircraft (fighter version of SR-91 Aurora)
32 SR-71 Blackbird Reconissance Aircraft

Of your 1,200 planes, 55 exist in RL. Even if your budget is six times the RL USA, it doesn't explain this increase with over 2100%.

Important OOC note:
The US defense budget is roughly 500 billion per year, and I have a defense budget of 3.1 trillion, nearly 8 times as much as the US defense budget.
8 x 0.5 = 4.
6 x 0.5 = 3 ~ 3.1
I would say around six times. :)

I am therefore able to afford these inflated numbers of military equipment, vehicles, and personnel. I have a population substantially higher than the real life United States so I have sufficient manpower to support these enlarged forces.
Essentially, Sharina is able to fund such technological leaps owing to a strong education and economy system (high spending in education + commerce + defense).

You're one of the moderators, so I still think your figures are correct. But we must count on others following this inflated numbers and non-existing RL-equipment, as I don't think you're alone in Earth-V with a defense budget of around 3 trillion (but I haven't looked that up).

I just thought that we better take this discussion now, before you're involved in any kind of war. It's so sad when someone just blame someone to godmod.

As a side note, my defense budget is around $670 billion, and my population is around 200 million, so my army/navy/air force are comparable to RL USA?

I'm having some comments to your military declaration, Sharina.

As do I.

I thought the rule said a maximum of 2% of the population in active duty, with an additional 3% in the reserves?
The 10% rule is for very militaristic-style countries like North Korea, right? But they will suffer economically from that, and it's certain that you don't do that.

It does, but I guess he's going for a militaristic-style country. If he is then that presents a problem. His budget is going to suffer, majorly. I'd say by a third as a rough guess. Having so many men under arms creates alot of problems. He has restarted the draft and that means training levels are going to go down, way down.

If we compare with the RL USA, their inventory is:
0 B-3 stealth bombers
21 B-2 stealth bombers
2 B-70 Valkyrie supersonic bombers
0 X-1 Aurora Reconissance Aircraft
0 X-2 Quicksliver Fighter Aircraft (fighter version of SR-91 Aurora)
32 SR-71 Blackbird Reconissance Aircraft

Of your 1,200 planes, 55 exist in RL. Even if your budget is six times the RL USA, it doesn't explain this increase with over 2100%.

With his economy the way it is now after all that influx of people, I'd say it would be more like 3 times now. This also presents a problem. Stealth Technology is very expensive. Both to build the aircraft and to research. A modern B2 cost 1.2 billion. That was back in 1998 dollars though. Adjusted for inflation it would probably be twice that amount as not many aircraft were built. Now the cost goes down as you produce more aircraft, but still it would be around 2 billion in today dollars to make each aircraft.

This brings me to my next point. Ships by their vary nature are very expansive to build. Sharina your large navy with the economy your running would bankrupt your nation. Look to Russia as an example, they tried to outbuild the United States and suffered heavly for it. You should limit your Navy to no more then 600 to 700 ships total of all types. As it is right now, even your 3.1 trillion would have trouble paying for that large of the Navy.

Also if you could be more specific as to your ship types. 500 ships of varying classes is not very helpful to us waging a war against you. Is that 500 Wasp Class ships or 500 LSDs? How many ships of what do you have?

You're one of the moderators, so I still think your figures are correct. But we must count on others following this inflated numbers and non-existing RL-equipment, as I don't think you're alone in Earth-V with a defense budget of around 3 trillion (but I haven't looked that up).

I just thought that we better take this discussion now, before you're involved in any kind of war. It's so sad when someone just blame someone to godmod.

As a side note, my defense budget is around $670 billion, and my population is around 200 million, so my army/navy/air force are comparable to RL USA?

Also, as a side note- my defense budget is around 400 billion and my population around 148 million. And no my Army/navy/air force doesn't even come close to comparing with the RL United States. For one I have a much smaller Navy and Air Force. However, my Army is alot larger then the United States. The United States has counting both the Army and the Marines as combat troops has a total of 632,275 men under arms on the ground. I have about roughly twice that? at 1.1 million men under arms on the ground.

So why I have a larger Army/Marines I have a smaller Air Force and Navy to afford that Army. Sharina, you have a larger everything and suffice to say with that economy of yours. Your military is going to be nothing more then a paper tiger.

And finally, you got your military budget listed as 3.1 billion. You need to add 3 more zeros for a trillion.

My philosophy on building states:

start small, grow bigger. I think it's easier to fill gaps than to have none, because you immediately limit your own progress and advances early in the set, while some of the more prominent smaller states have room to make minor adjustments and grow and fill their gaps later.

Of course, then there's the fact that Sharina isn't a new state, relatively... my qualm personally is that if we're going to RP based on RL stats, we need to make certain that our tech and military doesn't advance beyond the RL capabilities of the present. At the present moment, there is no army that can field 10mil men efficiently - not even the USA or China minutely. If either state committed as much power into their military, they'd end up like DPRK very quickly .

NOW, my biggest point about army sizes - you don't need a large army to make it a verey powerful army. What you need is a very efficient army, and the majority of that factor is directly tied to the amount of investment you put into each soldier [not necessarily the amount of money either, but that's included in the investment count...]. Given Sharina's base [not including the massive fleet of planes and ships] counts, 3.1 tril converts to $74118.43 per soldier [that's the 41.mil soldiers that are listed in Sharina's forces - I'm neglecting the fact that reserves are less costly than active, but even then...]

The Emirate currently fields about 750,000 soldiers [army/navy/airforce/auxiliarry]. I've got about 75,000 recruits joining.

Given my most recently updated military budget stance [which was a long time ago... = $175,031,290,800], the Emirate can afford to spend a base amount per soldier = [I]$233,375.05 [not including recruits...which cost more]

Comparing base costs per unit soldier, I spend over 3 times as much for each soldier, and my budget isn't as comparatively as large as Sharina's. And again, this is just base costs. I also maintain a smaller fleet of vessels and planes, which will likely make my base costs somewhere reasonably at $150,000 [at best]. Sharina - on the other hand - will likely be spending a lot of funds trying to keep his armed forces well-maintained. As such, there are three possible solutions to this dilemma:

1 - Sharina needs to cut back his armed forces to maintain a reasonably fighting force;
2 - Sharina needs to significantly boost his military budget; or
3 - Sharina needs a serious case of deflation such that $1 buys more.

Of these, I think only the first option is the simplest and perhaps the most logical.

All of these assumptions are based on such that everything as stated is true.


And I still want to know what's going on in China, so that the map is the most accurate that it can be at the moment.

I will be working on my military soon.

And then, my neighbors will hate me.

I'm having some comments to your military declaration, Sharina.


I thought the rule said a maximum of 2% of the population in active duty, with an additional 3% in the reserves?
The 10% rule is for very militaristic-style countries like North Korea, right? But they will suffer economically from that, and it's certain that you don't do that.


If we compare with the RL USA, their inventory is:
0 B-3 stealth bombers
21 B-2 stealth bombers
2 B-70 Valkyrie supersonic bombers
0 X-1 Aurora Reconissance Aircraft
0 X-2 Quicksliver Fighter Aircraft (fighter version of SR-91 Aurora)
32 SR-71 Blackbird Reconissance Aircraft

Of your 1,200 planes, 55 exist in RL. Even if your budget is six times the RL USA, it doesn't explain this increase with over 2100%.


8 x 0.5 = 4.
6 x 0.5 = 3 ~ 3.1
I would say around six times. :)



You're one of the moderators, so I still think your figures are correct. But we must count on others following this inflated numbers and non-existing RL-equipment, as I don't think you're alone in Earth-V with a defense budget of around 3 trillion (but I haven't looked that up).

I just thought that we better take this discussion now, before you're involved in any kind of war. It's so sad when someone just blame someone to godmod.

As a side note, my defense budget is around $670 billion, and my population is around 200 million, so my army/navy/air force are comparable to RL USA?

I questioned that one myself.

Allow me to address the issues that other players have brought up.

First, I mistakenly did my budget- I was thinking of a US budget of 400 billion annually instead of 500 billion. 8 x 400 = 3,200 billion.

Second, I was involved in plenty of wars in the early days of Earth V, expanding my territory. Then a major cold war occurred between me and the UFSR bloc (Kopparbergs and TGSR may remember the UFSR). So it does stand to reason that I would have had to constantly develop more efficient versions of the Abrams and B-2's to compete aganist the UFSR and to aid me in my expansion of territory. In fact, I provided links to the M1A3 Abrams and a few other things.

Third, lets compare RL US to my budget.

RL US has...

4 Iowa battleships
12 supercarriers
Roughly 30 cruisers
Roughly 50 destroyers
8,000 Abrams tanks (all varieties like M1A1, M1A2, etc.)
Thousands of Bradleys, Hummers, jeeps, supply and fuel trucks, salvage vehicles, etc.

750 B-52 bombers
3,000+ F-16 fighters
200 F-22's (USAF wants roughly that many in RL)
175 or so B-2 stealth bombers (I remember hearing the US made 170 or so of them)
A handful of SR-71 Blackbirds

The Aurora is a "black project" so for all we know, the US military has 10 or 100 of them in RL hidden away in secret bases or such. It's basically a 2nd generation SR-71 Blackbird.


Take my numbers.

You'll notice I roughly have 3x the numbers of the RL US military numbers across the board, and less than 3x in some instances while slightly more than 4x in other cases. For example, I have 1,000 B-52 bombers, which is only 1.25x more than the RL US numbers, and 30 supercarriers is roughly 2.75x the RL US numbers, and so on.

The only uber-expensive stuff would be the stealth aircraft, and the cold war with the UFSR would have necessitated Sharina to expand its stealth forces considerably more than in RL. In RL, the Cold War ended in 1991 with the collapse of the USSR, but in Earth V, the cold war lasted well into the early 2000's. If the USSR and US cold war in RL lasted until 2000's, we'd most likely have more stealth bombers, perhaps even a B-3 bomber, and see more Auroras around.

Thus, think of it this way. I spend 3x more than the RL US does on my Ground and Navy (3x out of a conserative 6x budget). Lets assume the US spends 100 billion on Army and 100 billion on Navy every year. That means with a 6x budget I could spend 600 billion on Army and Navy each. However I'd only spend 300 billion instead of 600 billion on each (3x instead of 6x), which gives me a surplus of 600 billion (300 extra billion from Army budget + 300 extra billion from Navy budget). That goes into the more expensive Air and Space branches of my military which means out of a 3.1 trillion budget, roughly 300 billion goes into Army, 300 billion to Navy, and 2.5 trillion into Air and Space branches. The numbers aren't exact, but you get the idea.

Keep in mind, I don't have to spend $2 billion a year on a stealth bomber. That is its PURCHASING cost (or cost to make). The maintainence of the bomber would probably be 100 million a year or something, far cheaper than the price to produce the bomber in the first place. So I could theoretically make 500 B-2's over 10 years ($1 trillion cost split into $100 billion a year for 10 years) instead of 1 year, and the maintainence for 500 of these bombers would only cost $50 billion dollars (500 x $100 million) a year, a paltry sum compared to a $2.5 trillion budget allocated for Air + Space agencies.

------------------------------

As for the numbers of soldiers, notice I divided them into TWO groups.

Active Duty
Reserve Duty

Active Duty = soldiers trained up and ready to go at a moment's notice. Stuff like RL Iraq soldiers or US soldiers in military bases 24 / 7 in RL.

Reserve Duty = National Guard, veterans, second-rate soldiers that train maybe 2 or 3 weeks every year (usually 1 weekend every month or some such thing). I do know that the RL US does have a Reserve Army- my Reserve Army is based off that.

The reason why I'm going for a 3% Acive Duty compared to a 2% rate is because of all the wars I've done, plus the threat of the UFSR. This is still far less than the standard 5% rates in mainstream NS nations (some NS nations go as far as 20% population in military).

The Reserves do not stay on military bases or anything- in fact they are just regular people that do everyday jobs and duties (your everyday Joe and Jane) but is patriotic and supports his / her nation and does boot camp kind of deal a few times a year like the RL US Reserve Army. It doesn't cut into Sharina's economy as you'd think.

You guys are thinking / assuming I had 10% of my population in ACTIVE duty, which is NOT the case. Its only 3%. Consquently, my Reserve units have less training and "elite-ness" than my Active units but they do know how to use a gun (not one of these morons who doesn't know which end of a gun to fire) and have basic first-aid training plus know the basics of driving, say, a Bradley or Jeep or Hummer or what have you.

In addition, the RL US has a population of roughly 290 - 300 million, while I have a population that is approaching 420 million, so I have substantially more people to put in my military than the US.

You guys are also ASSUMING that my 12 million active duty soldiers are COMBAT soldiers. That is not the case- the 12 million active duty soldiers INCLUDES logistics (which takes up quite a lot of %). Therefore, out of the 12 million active duty soldiers, only 2 million are combat soldiers (the ones that do the killing and fighting) and 10 million are logistics personnel that do not participate in combat. The 10 million logistics personnel are people that maintain the weapons + vehicles, prepare food, clean barracks, packaging weapons, manufacture stuff, work in communication centers to coordinate attacks, CIA type of intelligence, and all the other things a good Army needs to operate.

So simply put, I have in active duty- 2 million combat soldiers and 10 million logistics personnel. When comparing to a 420 million population, 2 million combat / "I fight you! I kill you!" soldiers essentially only make 0.5% of my total population, a number well below the 2% standard in Earth V.

Hope that cleared up quite a few things.

-----------------------------------------

There's one more thing I'd like to address.

As you may notice, I spend roughly 20% of my budget on Education, Defense, and Commerce. Consquently in game-terms, I'd have a pretty intelligent population that can develop good technology for civilian and military use (think RL Japan's uber-smart people), a robust economy due to large investments in it and has the slack to support a war like RL US in WW-2, and a nice defense budget that allows for substantial military protection and Research + Development. You could say I have a Japan-smart populace working in a military-industrial economy that can be adapted to a peaceful civilian economy once wars are over.

So a M1A3 Abrams and a B-3 bomber (essentially a B-2 with 10% more range and 10% more payload) shouldn't be too farfetched within the current timeline. I have provided a link for the general idea of a M1A3 Abrams (improvements on the M1A2, and fixes all known shortcomings).

This is a far cry from all these NS-ified equipment that seem god-moddy and invincible like SD's and 5,000 ton tanks and bullcrap like that.

Then a major cold war occurred between me and the UFSR bloc (Kopparbergs and TGSR may remember the UFSR).
175 or so B-2 stealth bombers (I remember hearing the US made 170 or so of them)
Take my numbers.

Yes, I remember! That was really fun! :)

Can you provide a link to the source about the b-2? This is from Wikipedia:

The original procurement of 135 aircraft was later reduced to 75 in the late 1980s. In his 1992 State of the Union address, President George H.W. Bush announced total B-2 production would be limited to 20 aircraft (later increased to 21 by refurbishing a test aircraft).


The reason why I'm going for a 3% Acive Duty compared to a 2% rate is because of all the wars I've done, plus the threat of the UFSR. This is still far less than the standard 5% rates in mainstream NS nations (some NS nations go as far as 20% population in military).

But this is Earth-V, and you cannot compare to nations not bound to the realistic rules in Earth-V.

Does this mean that the 2% rule is changed to 3%?
And the 3% reserve-buffer is changed to 7%, with a total of 10%?
OR, are you playing a Korea-style nation?

This is really important, as you're one of the mods. All others has (AFAIK) counted by the 2% rule, with 3% as reserves.


the 12 million active duty soldiers INCLUDES logistics (which takes up quite a lot of %). Therefore, out of the 12 million active duty soldiers, only 2 million are combat soldiers (the ones that do the killing and fighting)
2 million combat / "I fight you! I kill you!" soldiers essentially only make 0.5% of my total population, a number well below the 2% standard in Earth V.

Hmm... Does this mean that we should NOT include logistics in the 2% (or 3%) rules?

RL US has...
4 Iowa battleships
12 supercarriers
Roughly 30 cruisers
Roughly 50 destroyers
8,000 Abrams tanks (all varieties like M1A1, M1A2, etc.)
Thousands of Bradleys, Hummers, jeeps, supply and fuel trucks, salvage vehicles, etc.

750 B-52 bombers
3,000+ F-16 fighters
200 F-22's (USAF wants roughly that many in RL)
175 or so B-2 stealth bombers (I remember hearing the US made 170 or so of them)
A handful of SR-71 Blackbirds

Er, the US doesnt have any Battleships in service. 8,000 tanks is crazy pushing it as i dont even think Russia during the peak of its cold war power had nearly 8,000 tanks.

I dont mean to be rude or anything but is your budget re-done? I dont think 30 carriers is possible in EV with the redone numbers....

Again I just want this to be fair as I unofficialy support you in this up-coming war.

Er, the US doesnt have any Battleships in service. 8,000 tanks is crazy pushing it as i dont even think Russia during the peak of its cold war power had nearly 8,000 tanks.

I dont mean to be rude or anything but is your budget re-done? I dont think 30 carriers is possible in EV with the redone numbers....

Again I just want this to be fair as I unofficialy support you in this up-coming war.
The USSR (which I will be basically :p) had around 52,600 tanks in 1985. See here (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/army-equipment.htm).

Kopparbergs:

Hmm. I was probably thinking of that 130 - 135 number. Sometimes numbers get kind of mixed up in my head when I try to keep track of things. I stand corrected then.

However, my point still stands. With a budget of $2.5 trillion for air + space program, I could easily build the numbers of B-2's I have as Sharina over 10+ years since the B-2's were apparently developed. The B-2 was developed in the 1980's, which gives me roughly 15 - 20 years to build some between back then and now. Lets assume I ordered 500 of these aircraft at the $2 billion per plane price tag. That would be $1 trillion dollars. Now split that price by 10 - 15 years. That comes out to roughly $80 - $100 billion dollars per year, an affordable price with a $3.1 trillion defense budget.

As for the Reserves thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_army

This is what I'm referring to with the 7% in reserves. Those troops will most likely only be called up if Sharinan lands get invaded. Those troops are usually not used in offensive / attack actions upon other nations. Let me put it in another way- they're basically DEFENSIVE type of troops, and can only be used as such.

As for the combat / logistics thing, the US Army has 1.4 million personnel in its army, along with substantial number of reserves (but could be higher if the US was actually invaded in RL).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_military

I figure logistics is quite important to any military, and they should be included with the army totals. Without logistics, your army can't function. The US apparently has more than 200,000 combat troops. Thats not 1.4 million, so that 1.4 million number apparently includes logistics.

So if a 100 million pop nation is a nation that almost never goes to war, its reasonable to assume a 1% active duty percentage, which gives that nation 1 million personnel in the military. That's kind of close to the US military numbers of 1.4 million.

If a nation is pretty much average- such as the occasional war and such, a 2% active duty would be pretty reasonable. Not too pacifist, but not too war-monger-y.

But if a nation engages in lots of wars or expansion (like myself or Vineyard), it's reasonable to say that with constant war, the nation needs a slightly bigger military (3% active duty) to engage in all those invasions PLUS defend itself from possible counter-attacks or counter-invasions.

Nations with crazy military policies like North Korea would see between 5% to 10% in active duty.

Hope that cleared up some stuff for you Kopparbergs. If you have any questions or suggestions or issues, please do continue to discuss them with me, as it helps all of us figure stuff out.

---------------------------------

Brinkman Isle:

The US *DID* have 4 battleships- the Iowa, Wisconsin, Missouri, and New Jersey. They served into the 1980's and saw action in the Gulf War in the early 1990's. However, unlike the RL US, Sharina never decomissioned battleships and in fact, encouraged their construction (hence the Montana and Iowa class battleships in service of Sharina)

As for the Nimitz carriers, each one costs $4.5 billion to construct, but likely much less ($160 million each) for maintainence. 30 carriers x 4.5 billion = $135 billion.

Now, again, lets assume the carriers were all built over a 20 year period (1980 - 2000). Divide $135 billion by 20 and we get almost $7 billion annually. This is easily afforded by the $300 billion per year naval budget I have.

As for maintainence, 160 million per year times 30 carriers = 4.5 billion annually (ironically the cost of constructing one of these carriers). Again easily affordable with my budget.

Er, the US doesnt have any Battleships in service. 8,000 tanks is crazy pushing it as i dont even think Russia during the peak of its cold war power had nearly 8,000 tanks.

I dont mean to be rude or anything but is your budget re-done? I dont think 30 carriers is possible in EV with the redone numbers....

Again I just want this to be fair as I unofficialy support you in this up-coming war.

Loser

GR the bulk of those are old WWII tanks and/or light tanks...not exactly M1's.

Just curious as i havent checked but is your budget redone?

Hey, I was in the UFSR Bloc, remember? :D

GR the bulk of those are old WWII tanks and/or light tanks...not exactly M1's.

Just curious as i havent checked but is your budget redone?
The estimated final numbers are out, and we are around 30% done achieving them.

I have one question. Seeing as how I have basically annexed more territory how do I redo my budgets?
Do I take my population from when is started and go from there?
Do I take my population now and go from there?
Or Do I leave it the same?

Just a question.

Well it did clear up a few things. And here’s the list.

1. Your nation is an aggressive imperialist nation bent on world conquest as shown by your need for a very large military. The cold war ended almost a decade ago on Earth V. Why do you still feel the need for such a large military?

2. Logistic personnel on active duty while not combat troops are still troops. So with 10 million logistics personnel that puts you way over the 2% but that’s, fine as your nation is based on the North Korean System. Large poorly to moderately trained conscript (drafted) army. Since you using North Korean as a guide here are the facts. North Korea has a population of 22,224,000 people with a active duty force of 1,082,000 personnel [all branches-army,navy,airforce] which equals around 4.8% of their population. They have a reserve force [all branches] of 4,700,000 which equals 21.1 percent of their population. You also have to recall this has tanked their economy. While yours is not going to tank, it is going to suffer some to a degree of how much neither I nor anyone else could say for sure. But, suffice to say it would suffer. So that 3.2 trillion budget of yours just went down. And since from your impression you have maintained that amount of forces in your nation for quite some time you have never truly had a 3.2 trillion budget for quite some time.

3. Your forgetting to adjust for inflation as the years go by. A new Nimitz class carrier would be more then 4.5 billion, a lot more. Now, I'm willing to let you use the 4.5 billion because you stated that over a 20 year period you built the carriers. Don't forget to add in the other ships to. And remember as the years go by it cost more to maintain any type of system whether it be a car, truck, plane, ship or one giant ass carrier. That 160 million was back almost 10 years ago. If you really want a good idea of much everything cost then this is the place to start. The 2006 United States Defense Budget. Its a lot of reading but, its all their in black and white if you take the time to sort through the data. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/budget/fy2006/index.html

That covers everything for now.

All valid points, United Earthlings. However, there's a few points you must have missed.

First, I have roughly 20% of my budget in education and another approximately 20% into commerce / economy. Therefore, with such investment in the education system (meaning more intelligent workforce) and economy / commerce (keeping it afloat and ongoing, plus incentives for more economic growth), my economy won't crash.

Second, my numbers are far less than North Korea. A 3% active duty comes from nearly 30 years of war (the whole unifying and annexing campaigns through the Americas since the start of Earth V in 2004) plus the Cold War with the UFSR. Great Romeo is the "new" UFSR, as he and I haven't exactly been friends IC'ly with him holding Costa Rica, a constant thorn in my side for decades game-time. Imagine if the US was actually at war for 20 - 30 years, its military personnel would have been like 4 - 6 million troops or more. In fact, I remember a fact that the US could potentially mobilize 10+ million soldiers and support personnel after WW-1 and during WW-2. without serious loss of economy. The US actually recovered from the Great Depression because of WW-2, and women went to work in factories during WW-2, and did we see a Second Great Depression during or after WW-2? Nope.

Third, you're assuming that my government is the exact same as North Korea, which is communist and corrupt. My government isn't like that at all- I was anti-communist and still am. Free market economies generally have more slack for large militaries than command economies. Plus, Sharina has a lot of things North Korea doesn't, like mechanized farming, automated factories (like car factories or such with robots assembling stuff), good health services, good food (people don't starve in Sharina like they starve in RL North Korea), and so on.

Fourth, logistics personnel can contribute to the national economy. For example, weapons factories can manufacture weapons for the Army plus sell weapons and ammo to private civilian owners (like in RL USA). Communication centers can also be used to support local networks (traffic control and police and rescue efforts). Food packaging can include both civilian and military venues. Military grade stuff can be used in civilian stuff like tough rubber tires, better electronics, high quality handling equipment, etc. And so on.

All in all, you can't really compare North Korea to Sharina, mainly due to very different government and economy modes, plus Sharina having far more resources and a bigger workforce than North Korea. In addition, Sharina is going by a 3% active duty, compared to North Korea's almost 5%, and a 7% reserve force compared to North Korea's 22% reserve force. Not only that, but Sharina feeds its people well, has minimal corruption (not rampant corruption), no "disappearing people" actions, and such, while North Korea and other uber-militant nations starve their own people, Gestapo-like secret police, corrupt officials at pratically every post, and so on.

In addition, Sharina covers far more land area than North Korea, which means there's far more land to have bigger farms, factories, etc. to help keep Sharina's economy running.

All valid points, United Earthlings. However, there's a few points you must have missed.

First, I have roughly 20% of my budget in education and another approximately 20% into commerce / economy. Therefore, with such investment in the education system (meaning more intelligent workforce) and economy / commerce (keeping it afloat and ongoing, plus incentives for more economic growth), my economy won't crash.

Second, my numbers are far less than North Korea. A 3% active duty comes from nearly 30 years of war (the whole unifying and annexing campaigns through the Americas since the start of Earth V in 2004) plus the Cold War with the UFSR. Great Romeo is the "new" UFSR, as he and I haven't exactly been friends IC'ly with him holding Costa Rica, a constant thorn in my side for decades game-time. Imagine if the US was actually at war for 20 - 30 years, its military personnel would have been like 4 - 6 million troops or more. In fact, I remember a fact that the US could potentially mobilize 10+ million soldiers and support personnel after WW-1 and during WW-2. without serious loss of economy. The US actually recovered from the Great Depression because of WW-2, and women went to work in factories during WW-2, and did we see a Second Great Depression during or after WW-2? Nope.

Third, you're assuming that my government is the exact same as North Korea, which is communist and corrupt. My government isn't like that at all- I was anti-communist and still am. Free market economies generally have more slack for large militaries than command economies. Plus, Sharina has a lot of things North Korea doesn't, like mechanized farming, automated factories (like car factories or such with robots assembling stuff), good health services, good food (people don't starve in Sharina like they starve in RL North Korea), and so on.

Fourth, logistics personnel can contribute to the national economy. For example, weapons factories can manufacture weapons for the Army plus sell weapons and ammo to private civilian owners (like in RL USA). Communication centers can also be used to support local networks (traffic control and police and rescue efforts). Food packaging can include both civilian and military venues. Military grade stuff can be used in civilian stuff like tough rubber tires, better electronics, high quality handling equipment, etc. And so on.

All in all, you can't really compare North Korea to Sharina, mainly due to very different government and economy modes, plus Sharina having far more resources and a bigger workforce than North Korea. In addition, Sharina is going by a 3% active duty, compared to North Korea's almost 5%, and a 7% reserve force compared to North Korea's 22% reserve force. Not only that, but Sharina feeds its people well, has minimal corruption (not rampant corruption), no "disappearing people" actions, and such, while North Korea and other uber-militant nations starve their own people, Gestapo-like secret police, corrupt officials at pratically every post, and so on.

In addition, Sharina covers far more land area than North Korea, which means there's far more land to have bigger farms, factories, etc. to help keep Sharina's economy running.

Just a few things and that should be it. I said based on North Korea not exact in every detail. First, I never said your economy would crash merely suffer some. Having so many people on active duty will do that. Its not ever implied but even the US government during World War Two ran into snags and that was with massive rationing and the country fully behind the government. Your country has not been attacked and has been for the most part of a decade at peace. You really think the entire population would be behind your government 100%. Second-While the US did not experience another great depression after the War, the economy did take a hit as is to be expected with so many people returning civilian life. What made the economic hit easy to deal with was the massive influx a new products and the massive growth of the middle class with new wealth to afford all the new products being turned out for civilian use that was once used to win the war.

First, I have roughly 20% of my budget in education and another approximately 20% into commerce / economy

Third-just because you pour massive funds into education and commerce doesn't automatically mean your going to have a perfect economy or the best educated citizens. You also have to remember that you absorbed most of the Third World in the Americas. Its going to take at least a generation or two before those people of those countries make a difference in your educational levels but for now, they are dragging it down.

Fourth- large land use does not equal a better economy. The economy is depended on so many factors that people still their entire lives trying to figure it out. Suffice to say, the main factors that will deter your economy are pretty simple. Supply and demand for one. The cost of things as known as customer costs or some other name, if something cost more then someone can afford then they don't buy it or if they do they risk going into debt which in the long run will further weaken the economy. Third- Scarcity.
The trade off between needs and wants.

Ah, valid points about Central / Latin America.

HOWEVER, I conquered them way back in the 1970's and early 1980's before the Sharina-UFSR standoff. So I have had nearly 50 years to bring Mexico up to First World status, and 30 - 40 years to bring Guatemala, Belize, Honduras, Nicaruga, etc. to First World status.

I'm not saying I have a perfect economy- in fact I never claimed it. I was merely explaining how it was possible for me to have a 3x larger than US military WITH all of the US's equipment and a substantially larger defense budget which is 6x more than the RL US, which should allow for 6x more military vehicles, equipment, etc. but I'm actually only having 3x the amount of US equipment as opposed to 6x as I'm being quite conserative in my military equipment stuff.

Besides, I probably don't even need $3.1 trillion per year to sustain my 30 carriers and 500 B-2 bombers. Probably something like $50 billion tops for maintainence of all that, plus another $100 - $200 billion a year of maintainence for all the tanks, hummers, IFV's, subs, bombers, fighters, heliocopters, etc. Maybe even $500 billion worth of maintainence overall for EVERYTHING.

That still leaves me with $2.5 trillion to use for other stuff like buying more stuff, research + development of new tech, other expensive stuff, etc. So my military is pretty conserative, all things considered. I could easily say I have like 1,000 B-2 bombers (I could even afford the maintainence of 2,000 B-2's) or I could say I had 70 carriers (12 RL carriers multipied by 6 = 72 carriers). See what I mean?

Therefore the amount of equipment, vehicles, and such shouldn't be an issue as I have the money and the supply+demand required to build AND maintain them.

As for my military numbers, 30+ years of constant warfare pretty much gives Sharina the time and the experience to work out an effective military-industrial economy, plus the experience needed to tweak it around to keep it at optimal levels. It's like tweaking a car to run at its most efficient after running it for years or 100,000's of miles. I don't know the exact specifics of economy as I'm no economist, but I'm sure people within my nation who are economists would have figured out a way to mix the best of a militant economy with the best of a capitalist / free market economy after 30+ years.

Besides, with the world's most advanced weapons and vehicles (B-2, Abrams tanks, F-22 Raptors, Nimitz Supercarriers, etc.) even a n00b can do a lot of damage with them especially if the rest of the world has equipment that is like 10 - 20 years behind. It'd be like a n00b with a Tommy-Gun going aganist a Civil War era breech rifle.

OOC: Thank you for the critique.
Maybe I ran through it too fast.

But now I'm a little confused about the nukes. Based on your explanation about the nukes, there seems to be these choices:

1) NE China will use nukes if they're invaded.
1.1) I must use nukes to counter-strike their defense. Otherwise it's godmod.
1.2) If we're about to not use nukes in Earth-V (I know it's not popular to use nukes, and I certainly agree to this), then the answer to this is that nations with nukes cannot be invaded.

2) NE China will not use nukes if they're invaded.
2.1) Then we are somewhere where my RP is – but I agree to make a more detailed and longer invasion.

What do you say? I'm a bit confused as I said, and I think I need some guidance before I continue...

Sharina, I don't think you answered this. I'd like to know what to do...

Sharina, I don't think you answered this. I'd like to know what to do...

I'd like to see a much more detailed invasion instead of "I conquered that city with very few losses." A war between North and South China doesn't exactly end in just a few months. It will take years, considering the sheer land size, the quality of equipment (most of Chinese stuff = Korean / Vietnam era stuff), and the difficulty of pacifying hundreds of millions of people.

For instance, you claimed you only lost 5 planes in the war, and thats basically a god-mod as you don't have stealth aircraft, and your aircraft are just the same as Northern China, thus you'd have far higher losses than 5 planes.

Plus, North China does have the heavy industry to produce weapons of war, whereas South China is primarily farmland and agriculture based economy with several trade and other economies (Canton and Shanghai).

From the military declaration thread

I'm including the areas of NW China that are fully under my control and not currently still being fought over by my soldiers and portions of the old Chinese army. In taking the proviunces that I've already taken over and brought completely under control, I get the figure I do.

Sharina should remember the conversation in which I asked him about that stuff last night, so yes, I've cleared it with a moderator. Basically, populations not included in my total are:

NE Iran
Mongolia
The province in China still being fought over.
I must have missed that RP totally, I just remember you posting something about terrorist attacks form China, and that you're about to send in troops.
In the map-thread was a post from you about you're "invading NE China, but the RP is yet to be done."

Where's the thread to this?

I hope to see a big thread now, with a RP about nuclear threats and stuff - remember that it's China you're invading, and they are having nukes. :)

Hey, EII is still doing the puppeteer thing.

So, yea.

I made a new nation 'Gaelithia' so transfer the land to that account name, and I may still post as Pyscho ever so often. But you can all call me by Pyscho if it is easier for you.

Sharina- you have a 100% tax rate. Last time i checked thats a little more communist than free market. However if you dont go by that than you must lower your budget number to reflect that.

Again, i havent checked your actual numbers so you might have already did this.

Sharina- you have a 100% tax rate. Last time i checked thats a little more communist than free market. However if you dont go by that than you must lower your budget number to reflect that.

Again, i havent checked your actual numbers so you might have already did this.

Hmm... I never really thought or use my exact NS stuff. The only "hard" NS stat I use is my population for calculations and stuff.

Besides, a communist nation would have low Politic Freedoms and Civil Rights (like North Korea, RL China- to a degree, the USSR, and Cuba) yet my NS nation has extremely high Civil Rights and Politic Freedoms.

Than Where does your Budget stats come from. I really dont mean to start something here but you just said your pulling stuff out of the air, especially when its 3 trillion dollars in EV

From the military declaration thread


I must have missed that RP totally, I just remember you posting something about terrorist attacks form China, and that you're about to send in troops.
In the map-thread was a post from you about you're "invading NE China, but the RP is yet to be done."

Where's the thread to this?

I hope to see a big thread now, with a RP about nuclear threats and stuff - remember that it's China you're invading, and they are having nukes. :)

Yeah.... it's called the "International Incidents" thread in case you missed it. Which, over the period of about a week to a week and a half RL I've posted news update after news update on the status of what's going on.

Since, you see, I'm taking over an area which is about 1/3 desert, about 1/4 populated by Muslims who love me, and about 1/3 populated by minority groups who don't give a damn one way or the other. And the part that would dislike me? That would be why I don't claim to have taken ocver everything and why I'm still, you know, fighting in the area.

Oh, and if it's nukes you're thinking of Eastern China, since Western China has no nukes, has very little military, and is generally just inferior to the East. Plus, it was never part of that large empire that was the rest of China (whatever that player was who died out), so it's a totally seperate entity from the Peking-led government. Meaning even less technology and leadership.

Than Where does your Budget stats come from. I really dont mean to start something here but you just said your pulling stuff out of the air, especially when its 3 trillion dollars in EV

Okay, here's a basic rundown.

My NS population is 4.59 billion.

My Earth V population is roughly 418.5 million.

418.5 million / 4.59 billion = budget factor of 0.09118.

Now take my NS defense budget of roughly 34 trillion dollars.

0.09118 times 34 trillion dollars = 3.10012 trillion dollars.

Therefore, my Earth V defense budget is $3,100,120,000,000 dollars.

Yes but that would be using a 100% tax rate meaning you are in fact a communist state which means that your economy isnt all you say it is.

Seeing as how I've nearly doubled my population, how should I go about redoing my Budgets?

Take my original Population and work from there?
Take my population now?
Or just leave it?

If your "conquests" (I use that term loosely, as it encompasses many ways of getting territory) are complete, then re-do all figures with your new population. So you'll have a new budgetary adjustment figure, etc.....

I like to call them more of Retributions not conquests but meh they are basically done... for now. The RSA hasn't asked any thing else of me.
So redo the budget with my new population with my old NS one, got it.

Yes but that would be using a 100% tax rate meaning you are in fact a communist state which means that your economy isnt all you say it is.

Ah, but my NS stats say that I have "Superb" Political Freedom and "Superb" Civil Rights, which denotes a generally democratic / "freedom-minded" society as opposed to a communist one.

Communist regimes never have those degrees of freedom. They generally have "Poor" Political Freedom and Civil Rights. Look at USSR and North Korea.

That only means your Communist state is somewhat enlightned.

100% rate means everything goes back to the government or state meaning everything is state owned.

That = Communism.

Foolish capitalist! It may be socialist! Many types of socialism, yes? For instance, I am a democratic socialist nation. I believe Sharina is a market socialist nation. Communism =/= all money to state. Other things may as well.

I do have a type of market socialism- it justifies my robust economy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism

One example of this is RL China today. Even though it is communist in name, its economy is exploding (in a good way).

While over half the nation remains under the poverty line.

While over half the nation remains under the poverty line.

Yes, but that was mainly from several factors. Like Mao's crap and Cultural Leap Forward, and the commie government not helping any.

Yeah.... it's called the "International Incidents" thread in case you missed it. Which, over the period of about a week to a week and a half RL I've posted news update after news update on the status of what's going on.

Since, you see, I'm taking over an area which is about 1/3 desert, about 1/4 populated by Muslims who love me, and about 1/3 populated by minority groups who don't give a damn one way or the other. And the part that would dislike me? That would be why I don't claim to have taken ocver everything and why I'm still, you know, fighting in the area.

Oh, and if it's nukes you're thinking of Eastern China, since Western China has no nukes, has very little military, and is generally just inferior to the East. Plus, it was never part of that large empire that was the rest of China (whatever that player was who died out), so it's a totally seperate entity from the Peking-led government. Meaning even less technology and leadership.

Hmm, wait a moment now...
I we should compare your invasion of NW China, with the Invasion of NE China by Asian China, which Sharina totally dismissed.
And it doesn't matter if the NW-part of China never was a part of the "large empire", it's still a part of RL China, and is a big country (or part thereof).

First, you doubled your population by invading that part, right (+50 million)? What parts of China is under your control, the Xinjiang division which is closest to you, has a population of 19.6 million.

I've searched the National and International Incidents forum, and found these chinese post made by you:

UARCA News Blitz!

Thursday, Western China:
Sources within the military report lessened fighting in most areas of China, with resistance now only concentrated in more heavily-populated regions in the South-East. Casualties have remained moderate, but are expected to mount rapidly as UARCA troops begin encountering increasingly heavy resistance from terrorists and their allies in the defunct Chinese Armed Forces.


UARCA News Briefing"This is a fight for the very soul of our nation, for the heritage our nation was built upon. The people of Turkmenistan will exercise their basic right to participate in government and the actions of deluded rebels who long for their power under the despotic rule of Niyazov will not hinder the People's will. And their allies, in deed if not letter, in Turkestan, will also feel the strong fist of justice and liberty come crashing down on them. Even now, as attacks spread, the brave soldiers of the People's Guard advance to meet and contain the threat and protect all the people of Western China, those of Turkestan or points further east, from this vile activity."

Independent sources claim that multiple divisions have already passed over the Tien Shan range and are moving to major cities along the Tarim Basin, but with no official word these reports must only be viewed as idle speculation. Official word has come out that People's Guard forces have defensively occupied the cities of Kashgar, Ining, and Urumchi, despite heavy resistance by terrorist forces. Casualty figures are unknown.


BREAKING NEWSTashkent, Uzbekistan, UARCA; AP Report
The People's Guard of the UARCA reports today of a string of terror attacks against UARCA construction workers and Muslims living within the Western-most reaches of China. Althoguh reports are still coming in, it appears that in the chaos surrounding what looks to be a massive string of attacks at least 300 UARCA citizens have died, along with an un-released number of ethnic Chinese Muslims.

General Siyonov, in command of Eastern Military Command for the UARCA, had his office release this statement today:

"These unjust and wholly surprise terrorist attacks have come out of nowhere to wreak havoc upon the peace-loving peoples of the UARCA nd the peaceful right of Muslims in Western China to practice their religion. In order to safeguard all UARCA citizens and the completion of the UARCA-RoI pipeline under construction, I am authorizing the declaration of military law within the sector currently occupied by my troops in the utterly lawless region of WEstern China that borders the UARCA. It is my hope that swift and just measures will put an end to these barbarious actions by the as-yet unannounced terrorist group."

The announcement was accompanied by the advance of a number of divisions of UARCA troops, who moved into areas attacked in the terrorist incidents and began to consolidate control over all areas along the pipeline route with UARCA citizens present. There is, as of yet, no word from Tashkent on the size or duration of these actions.

I'm not buying this.

Especially since Sharina has declared that China cannot be invaded easily, and you have invaded it with three news-briefings. I cannot see how much of NW China is under your control in these posts, and your losses in these three post is limited to

"Casualties have remained moderate"
"Casualty figures are unknown"

I do not want to be a pain in the ass, but to me it seems like Sharina has confirmed this invasion, and declared Asian China's invasion as a godmod. His invasion is many times more detailed than your, and I think Sharina needs to explain the difference between these two.

Another comparison:
Samtonia has a population of 55 million (before the China invasion), after the invasion you're having 111 million (or whatever you said in your military declaration).

Asian China has a population of about 750 million. NE China has around 450-500 million inhabitants.

The difference here is that you're invading a country of the same size as your, and Asian China is invading a much smaller country (50% smaller).

And if you take a look at this page (http://www.atomicarchive.com/Almanac/PRCFacilities_static.shtml) it seems like NE China has nukes. But that may of course depend on where the borderline goes.

Either I'm missing a big point in your china-invasion (maybe some invasion-posts?), or Sharina and you have to explain why your invasion is confirmed while Asian China's are not.

I just think that everything should be equal for everyone.

TG6R, what do you say about this? If this invasion is confirmed, I think Asian China's should be as well?

My couple of cents...

yay im back. good to see no despot has invaded my lands..... :)

Hmm, wait a moment now...
I we should compare your invasion of NW China, with the Invasion of NE China by Asian China, which Sharina totally dismissed.
Okay. Sharina actually does in the IC thread, but i'll do it here!

And it doesn't matter if the NW-part of China never was a part of the "large empire", it's still a part of RL China, and is a big country (or part thereof).
Precisely. Which is why I haven't taken over all of it and thus am not asking for it to be entirely shaded in. However, here's where your logic hits a snag. It's big- because it has a giant desert in the middle of it. And almost no major cities. In fact, it's one of the least densely populated areas of all of China (rivalled by only the entire Tibetan area, i believe.)

First, you doubled your population by invading that part, right (+50 million)? What parts of China is under your control, the Xinjiang division which is closest to you, has a population of 19.6 million.
Xinjiang: 19.6
Gansu: 26.2
Qinghai: 5.4
Turkmenistan: 4.8

I'm taking a few hundred thousand off from Gansu and not saying that Ningxia will help me at all, as I'm still fighting/getting control there. The other areas, however, are controlled enough that I can count them as parts of my nation that do not require military troops there- thus meaning under control.


Especially since Sharina has declared that China cannot be invaded easily, and you have invaded it with three news-briefings. I cannot see how much of NW China is under your control in these posts, and your losses in these three post is limited to

"Casualties have remained moderate"
"Casualty figures are unknown"

You missed "casulaties are expected to mount rapidly." Plus I did indeed post, but a database error rather screwed me over in that regard. Another point- I don't put exact casualty numbers. that's not my style. IO'll do it for PvP fights, but NPC fights? I don't have the time to do that and it just doesn't gel with my normal way of doing thiggs. Sorry if that clashes with your standard way of RPing, but it's just my thing.

Furthermore: Go look at The Geat Game thread for a large post. Mainly, my posts aren't too long because I haven't had the RL time to post massive things like my Turkmenistan thread. I have started doing that much again, so hopefully you'll be sated. And I'm not planning on integrating the entire area perfectly as quickly as Turkmenistan- it'll take much more time and effort to make everyone happy citizens like in Turkmenistan.

Then again, casualties will be low when an extremely well-trained and high morale army of volunteers hits a technologically archiac force of low-morale conscripts in a very people-free area.

I do not want to be a pain in the ass, but to me it seems like Sharina has confirmed this invasion, and declared Asian China's invasion as a godmod. His invasion is many times more detailed than your, and I think Sharina needs to explain the difference between these two.
He did admirably, but I'll expand.

Western China gets jack in terms of military. No new tanks, no new planes, no good soldiers- nada. Zip. Nothing. Soldiers are really a glorified paramiltiary force, all conscruipts, tasked with what amounts to garrison duty. There is limited population (both urban and within the country) and the ground is hard and dry, perfect for rapid movemnt of large columns of men. I have a budget for law and order almost as large as military, much of which goes into State Secuirty (who moves in after the army to make sure there is order) and propaganda.

I've only run into trouble (thus not taking over all of this area of China) when I hit areas that actually are a bit more heavily populated- the extreme Southeast of the sector.

Another comparison:
Samtonia has a population of 55 million (before the China invasion), after the invasion you're having 111 million (or whatever you said in your military declaration).

Asian China has a population of about 750 million. NE China has around 450-500 million inhabitants.

The difference here is that you're invading a country of the same size as your, and Asian China is invading a much smaller country (50% smaller).

The difference is that I have a well-trained and equipped army hitting a force of rabble with late 60s-era equipment (if that). The differnce is I have no extreme urban areas or well-trained and equipped and motivatede armies in my way. The difference is my nation is industrialized, militarized, and ready for war, while Southern china is a massively populated region of impoverished farmers. The differnce is WEstern China is in no way industrialized or modernized, while NE China most certainly is with its proximity to Peking. The difference is that the harder ground means I can use tanks that are heavier and thus better, while the soft ground of Southern China means Southern chinese tanks are inferior right off the bat simply because they have to be built lighter and thus not as powerful or they'd sink into the ground.

I am invading a wide-open country with an antiquated and ill-trained army. I am attaxcking through an area that either loves me, likes me, or doesn't give a damn as to who rules them (the farther in you get into China. Do some looking- people far-removed from Beijing really cease caring about Beijing and only about regional/local leaders. Thusm any current fights between chinese police/soldiers and villagers.) Elite troops spearheaded and my army now has some of the best equipment in our corner of ASia with the plans for T-90s purchased from India, and massive quantites of Soviet tech that is about as new as it gets manufactured in my factories. I did not magically assassinate abny leader to have the entire area surrender. I assume that, as a result of time being fluid, my actions are taking place over the period of time we have going on Earth V and not only a week or something crazy like that. That is the difference between mine and Asian China's attack.

And if you take a look at this page (http://www.atomicarchive.com/Almanac/PRCFacilities_static.shtml) it seems like NE China has nukes. But that may of course depend on where the borderline goes.
It can launch missiles that could hold nukes from some sites. But the Chinese government does not trust leaders of military units in the boonies with nucelar weapons- and my delayed post does slightly address that.

Either I'm missing a big point in your china-invasion (maybe some invasion-posts?), or Sharina and you have to explain why your invasion is confirmed while Asian China's are not.

I just think that everything should be equal for everyone.

TG6R, what do you say about this? If this invasion is confirmed, I think Asian China's should be as well?

My couple of cents...

No offense to you, but I disagree completely with your cents. My invasion is completely differnt from his, is being RPed out in a fair manner, and shares nothing in common besides being into places that in RL are controlled by a country named "China."

That is why I feel my invasion is fair and adequately posted for- others on Earth V have posted far less for invasions and still gained territory. I do see your point and appreciate you bringing the points up- if I can't defend my actions, they'd be wrong no matter what.

Sharina- I would like for you to address these points from your military declaration.

300 B-3 stealth bombers (2nd generation of B-2 with 10% enhanced stealth, electronics, and payload)

You say 10% enhanced stealth but do you even know what they means? How is it enhanced? The only way to increase payload would be to increase the size of the aircraft there by making it more likely to be detected. Also in terms of how militaries work, naming it the B-3 would signified it’s a new aircraft which would be a total waste of money as the airframe for the B-2 is barely 20 years old. If, its an upgraded version of the B-2 the Air Force wouldn't have called it the B-3. When they upgraded the F-16, F-15, F/A-18, the C-130 or the C-5 they didn't call it a different name. It didn't go from F-16 to F-17 or C-5 to C-6. They just added a letter, C-5A to C-5B or F-16 to F-16C/D. So, if it’s a upgraded it would probably be called the B-2B. And last I highly doubt the technology exist today to make them more stealth. The only way would be to make better radar absorbent material (RAM). Those materials are very very expensive. You can conduct research into those materials but don't expect results for at least a decade. Stealth Technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_technology)

100 X-1 Aurora Reconnaissance Aircraft ***
50 X-2 Quicksliver Fighter Aircraft (fighter version of SR-91 Aurora)

Theirs not a single proof that this aircraft even exist. Besides even with the cold war lasting longer the SR-71 was retired in 1998. A satellite can do a much better job. So with all due respect- I'm consider the Aurora a godmod since theirs no proof either way if it exists or not and to me that violates this rule- You can also RP a research & development of a new product, but it must be in reasonable limits.

10,000 other aircraft of varying types (refuellers, cargo, older bombers, AWACS, transport helicopters, etc.)

Please specify how much of which. Yes, I know mine doesn't have it either but I'm plan on adding the exact amount when I get a chance.

10 Iowa class Battleships
20 Montana class Battleships ****

When did you build these ships? Only 4 Iowa’s were built and that was back in the 40's and the Montana Class was never built. If you took over the US in 2000's it would take quite a few years to build those ships since you would in essence would have to be starting from starch. Think as long as A carrier- but a few years longer. 5-6 years depending on delays.

500 ships of varying classes (resupply, troop transports, refuellers, salvage, etc.)

Like the planes, please be more specify. How many of which class. Anything less will be consider a godmod. You could one day I have 200 resupply and then the next 300 and so on and so on.

Classified amount of anti-satellite weapons

Considering the last test of a Anti-Satellite weapon was in the early seventies. I doubt how effective you weapons are going to be. And that was back in the seventies. Do you even have any idea how many satellites are in orbit now and that’s the ones not classified. Here’s some information on Anti-Satellite weapons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASAT_weapon_development

Various classified space projects are underway as well. One project is the construction of a space-yard and another is the construction of a third space station simply entitled "Deep Space Station". It is speculated that this space station may not be placed in Earth's orbit.

You weaponize Space now? If you are, I would say that's a bad idea. The rest of us would see what was going on. Its kind of hard to hide a massive Space Station.

This last post brings up a very very very very very very good point. We need to organize all of our extraneous posts, because I know that there are several RP's being mounted at the moment, but they're literally all over the place. I'd love to make another thread that organizes them all, but seriously, I think I'm volunteering for so much work right now, in all of my various RPs. But again, I'd rather have order than chaos, so I just might end up doing it...

And again, I don't know if I have enough legitimacy to say this, but quite frankly, if you don't have a post [or applicable RL fact] to support a claim that you have, neither I nor anyone can likewise legitimately recognize it. SOOO, if you want to get anything done [including all of the R/D that everyone else is and ought to be doing], get a thread and get in a post. Otherwise, when it comes to debating the issue at hand, you don't have anything to present before his Majesty, the Lord Magistrate and Executive Judicator TG6R, and he can't do anything worth %$#^ to support you [quite frankly, this is also common sense...and I'm baaad with that %$#^].

And thanks to all giving their cents. Eventually, all of your money trickles down to me, so I'm getting astronomically rich off all of your OOC comments that are painstakingly attempting to keep a modestly realistic RP working here.


EDIT - By that last post, I was referencing post #1401...

[ooc: a lot of this banter and discussion really belongs in the OOC thread...

and a point about this IC and OOC nonsense - Sharina's policy doesn't need to reflect the truth - all it needs to present is a reality. And the reality is that the people in Venezuela and Ohio/Michigan are disgruntled, and that the people in Vietnamexico don't want DP to occupy their country. Again, it isn't necessarily the truth, but it presents a very real reality.

That said, the opposite could be equally said of the same position - that people are very well and content with their lives in Venezuela and Ohio/Michigan, and that the people craze DP occupation. But then again, that hasn't been one of the opinions expressed on this topic. And furthermore, I don't think that distant states are particularly bad, such as the Iberian Netherlands owning territory in India, Europe, and South America... it might be awkward, but then again, it somehow works, like all of the other nonsense that operates in this NS universe.

So, my last words - as a courtesy, keep the OOC chatter out of here. If you want to continue debating it, please take it out at the least. And ICly, any state can adopt any policy that it desires - only so much as long as they are willing to accept the consequences that such policies elicit from itself and the world - i.e. Sharina can go on a quest to satisfy its manifest destiny, and DP can continue its quest to acquire the former territories of Vietnamexico - but they must equally be receptive to the likely conflict that the divergence of the two policies create.

And I think I remember Sharina's official policy on the UN from the last time that this thing went on, but it doesn't stop the Emirate from ICly broaching the topic there. Speaking of which, I'd really like to get that thing started up, such that there is a working and functioning organization, not what is currently available. So there's my last words.]

OOC: The only thing Im ticked off at is people are beliving his lies.

Okay, so I'm transporting this here, not so I can debate, but so everyone else can.

And here's what I will say in response - ICly, they can believe it, because it's only a reality. States do it all of the time; it's called propoganda. If you want to portray the truth [whatever it is at the moment], you must present an equally viable, if not more well-constructed reality that will persuade more people.

And as Napoleon so eloquently said - "What is history but a fable agreed upon." [or in so many other derivatives of this very meaning because of translator's preferences...].

Allow me to clarify a few points.

Military Stuff:

B-3 bombers:

Point taken.

I was thinking of slightly better B-2's with slightly larger payloads and an extra boost in range similiar to the boosts done to the B-52's (from original B-52 all the way to B-52-G). Besides my nation doesn't necessarily have to follow the ordering of RL US designations and such. I could easily rename my stuff to a different name or labelling system.

But your point is taken about the stealth thing. Consider stealth the same as B-2 (no increase / improvement), but the payload and range is increased 10% (analogous to the improvements done in B-52 series of bombers).

Iowa Battleships:

Sharina built these battleships starting in 1970 onwards. Sharina constructs battleships as Sharina never gave up on "Battleship Doctrine", especially in the Cold War aganist the UFSR. Sharina wanted mobile command+control naval assets that would be much more heavily protected than carriers, considering carriers can be blown up easier than battleships (all that jet fuel, plus jet bombs and such inside the carrier).

Montana Battleships:

As part of Sharina's battleship building program, the Montanas were built in the 1970's through the 1990's. The blueprints and such were called up from archives and given authorization for production. Unlike the RL US Navy, Sharina's Navy WANTED battleships and the Sharinan government wanted powerful vessels to counter the UFSR's Navy, considering Sharina has three oceans to protect- Pacific, Atlantic, and Caribbean.

Sharina DID not come into being in 2000. It came into being in the early 1960's (when Earth V started up).

Space Stuff:

Sharina has had space stuff for a long time in Earth V. I have had space stuff for my nation since nearly the beginning of Earth V. I have had the space stations for over 20 game-years, and they existed during the UFSR Cold War.

My anti-satellite weapons employ gamma rays which are used to create an EMP effect at the target which would usually be enemy satellites, shorting out their circuitry and making them useless pieces of junk. Same goes for my Attack Shuttles which are essentially today's Space Shuttles with metal-storm cannons (as there's no explosion or ejected cartridges to damage the shuttle itself) slung under the shuttle's wings very similiar to WW-2 type of fighters + bombers mounting guns on their wings.

My satellites have a chip in them that identifies themselves as "Friendly" to my anti-sat weapons and my space weapons and shuttles, so that friendly-fire destruction of my own satellites are kept at a minimum. Same thing as the RL military uses on the ground and air.

The intent of my militant space stuff is to knock out enemy satellites, especially spy satellites to blind the enemy, and prevent the enemy from dropping space stuff onto my lands. Keep in mind, the UFSR took large efforts in this space program, and Vineyard created a militant space program, thus Sharina responded with its own space militarization. Even though the UFSR fell, Sharina still maintains its militant space forces to guanatree security in space directly above the Americas.

My "X number of various stuff" numbers:

They are mostly support stuff, generally little things like supply ships, refueler aircraft, C-5 Galaxy transport aircraft, repair ships (to help repair damaged ships), salvage vehicles, and a million other logistics + support stuff.

I don't even know 5% of the actual logistics stuff that the RL US military uses (the stuff I stated above are pretty much the only things I know of) so I'm using the number to include those logistic stuff that I don't know much or anything about, like the WASP stuff someone else mentioned. These numbers also include small things like Jeeps, Hummers, tow trucks, these classical huge Army trucks, etc.

They aren't exactly combat stuff unless someone notes I have combat stuff in my logistics stuff. I have a feeling that the WASP thing someone mentioned may be a warship or a type of missile or something. I am no military General or a Military-Geek, so I don't know any of the maybe 100 - 200 different types of logistic stuff in the US Army, so I can't really be expected to know them all. Thus I include them in a overall "umbrella" number to say that I do have these things in my Army. Plus, I don't even know the optimal ratios or numbers for any of these either, so I figure + assume that I do have them in optimal numbers comparable to the RL US military (as I control pretty much the majority of US military tech and assets) and let my IC generals and stuff sort it all out.

--------------------------------------------

As for the whole Michigan, Ohio, Venzeula, and Costa Rica thing.

Its perfectly logical for my nation to annex them in the upcoming war.

Point 1: Sharina is stopping Dweladelfina from expanding.

Point 2: United Earthlings / Netherlands *AND* Military Command have declared their support for Dweladelfina.

Point 3: Netherlands + Military Command has territories right next to Sharina (Venzeula = Netherlands. Michigan + Ohio = Military Command) in which they could concievably do damage to Sharina.

Point 4: Sharina will seek to remove those territories from Netherland and Military Command control so that after the war, these two nations will be unable to threaten Sharina anymore in the Americas. No Netherland tanks or aircraft out of Venzeula bombing and blowing up stuff in Sharinan held Colombia... or no Military Command planes or tanks rolling into Wisconsin and Pennslyvania... because these two nations will no longer be able to have these stuff in the Americas anymore (because I take the land away from them)

Point 5: This fits in exactly with the Monroe Doctrine, thus it is not bullshit.

Point 6: If Military Command and Netherlands were NOT Dweladelfina's allies, or support Dweladelfina in the upcoming war, *THEN* Sharina would not aim to seize Venzeula from Netherlands and Michigan + Ohio from Military Command.

Point 7: Great Romeo is another EATO ally of Dweladelfina, so he will lose his base in America (Costa Rica) as well.

Point 8 (most important): Sharina will eliminate all EATO presence from the Americas for two reasons. First, Sharina will remove all EATO claims and territory in the Americas. Consquently, EATO will have no land, air, or sea bases in the Americas to threaten Sharina or Confederate States of America with. Thus, fulfuilling the Monroe doctrine.

-----------------------------------------

People can be assholes IC'wise, but be gentlemen and awesome people OOC'ly. For example, Chronosia or Automagfreek can be totally nasty and evil IC'wise, but they are great people to chat and interact with OOC'ly.

So if I sound like an asshole, I am doing it from an IC perpsective, not the "real" me or OOC me.

Point 7: Great Romeo is another EATO ally of Dweladelfina, so he will lose his base in America (Costa Rica) as well.

Just FYI, don't know if it will change your mind, but Great Romeo has declared that he's no longer a member of EATO. He declared all his memberships in alliances "null and void" or something like that.

Where is Warta Endor? Does anybody know?

He hasn't posted for a while...

He may be having trouble getting onto the forums, both Sharina and myself have had logging in problems before - and it wouldn't be surprising if someone else did.

Just FYI, don't know if it will change your mind, but Great Romeo has declared that he's no longer a member of EATO. He declared all his memberships in alliances "null and void" or something like that.

He's already told me hes supporting me.

Oh and I'll have another announcement to the wold to come later.

I think Great Romeo's support may shift and waiver within the next few days ;)

Allow me to clarify a few points.

Military Stuff:

B-3 bombers:

Point taken.

I was thinking of slightly better B-2's with slightly larger payloads and an extra boost in range similiar to the boosts done to the B-52's (from original B-52 all the way to B-52-G). Besides my nation doesn't necessarily have to follow the ordering of RL US designations and such. I could easily rename my stuff to a different name or labelling system.

But your point is taken about the stealth thing. Consider stealth the same as B-2 (no increase / improvement), but the payload and range is increased 10% (analogous to the improvements done in B-52 series of bombers).

Iowa Battleships:

Sharina built these battleships starting in 1970 onwards. Sharina constructs battleships as Sharina never gave up on "Battleship Doctrine", especially in the Cold War aganist the UFSR. Sharina wanted mobile command+control naval assets that would be much more heavily protected than carriers, considering carriers can be blown up easier than battleships (all that jet fuel, plus jet bombs and such inside the carrier).

Montana Battleships:

As part of Sharina's battleship building program, the Montanas were built in the 1970's through the 1990's. The blueprints and such were called up from archives and given authorization for production. Unlike the RL US Navy, Sharina's Navy WANTED battleships and the Sharinan government wanted powerful vessels to counter the UFSR's Navy, considering Sharina has three oceans to protect- Pacific, Atlantic, and Caribbean.

Sharina DID not come into being in 2000. It came into being in the early 1960's (when Earth V started up).

Space Stuff:

Sharina has had space stuff for a long time in Earth V. I have had space stuff for my nation since nearly the beginning of Earth V. I have had the space stations for over 20 game-years, and they existed during the UFSR Cold War.

My anti-satellite weapons employ gamma rays which are used to create an EMP effect at the target which would usually be enemy satellites, shorting out their circuitry and making them useless pieces of junk. Same goes for my Attack Shuttles which are essentially today's Space Shuttles with metal-storm cannons (as there's no explosion or ejected cartridges to damage the shuttle itself) slung under the shuttle's wings very similiar to WW-2 type of fighters + bombers mounting guns on their wings.

My satellites have a chip in them that identifies themselves as "Friendly" to my anti-sat weapons and my space weapons and shuttles, so that friendly-fire destruction of my own satellites are kept at a minimum. Same thing as the RL military uses on the ground and air.

The intent of my militant space stuff is to knock out enemy satellites, especially spy satellites to blind the enemy, and prevent the enemy from dropping space stuff onto my lands. Keep in mind, the UFSR took large efforts in this space program, and Vineyard created a militant space program, thus Sharina responded with its own space militarization. Even though the UFSR fell, Sharina still maintains its militant space forces to guanatree security in space directly above the Americas.

My "X number of various stuff" numbers:

They are mostly support stuff, generally little things like supply ships, refueler aircraft, C-5 Galaxy transport aircraft, repair ships (to help repair damaged ships), salvage vehicles, and a million other logistics + support stuff.

I don't even know 5% of the actual logistics stuff that the RL US military uses (the stuff I stated above are pretty much the only things I know of) so I'm using the number to include those logistic stuff that I don't know much or anything about, like the WASP stuff someone else mentioned. These numbers also include small things like Jeeps, Hummers, tow trucks, these classical huge Army trucks, etc.

They aren't exactly combat stuff unless someone notes I have combat stuff in my logistics stuff. I have a feeling that the WASP thing someone mentioned may be a warship or a type of missile or something. I am no military General or a Military-Geek, so I don't know any of the maybe 100 - 200 different types of logistic stuff in the US Army, so I can't really be expected to know them all. Thus I include them in a overall "umbrella" number to say that I do have these things in my Army. Plus, I don't even know the optimal ratios or numbers for any of these either, so I figure + assume that I do have them in optimal numbers comparable to the RL US military (as I control pretty much the majority of US military tech and assets) and let my IC generals and stuff sort it all out.

--------------------------------------------

As for the whole Michigan, Ohio, Venzeula, and Costa Rica thing.

Its perfectly logical for my nation to annex them in the upcoming war.

Point 1: Sharina is stopping Dweladelfina from expanding.

Point 2: United Earthlings / Netherlands *AND* Military Command have declared their support for Dweladelfina.

Point 3: Netherlands + Military Command has territories right next to Sharina (Venzeula = Netherlands. Michigan + Ohio = Military Command) in which they could concievably do damage to Sharina.

Point 4: Sharina will seek to remove those territories from Netherland and Military Command control so that after the war, these two nations will be unable to threaten Sharina anymore in the Americas. No Netherland tanks or aircraft out of Venzeula bombing and blowing up stuff in Sharinan held Colombia... or no Military Command planes or tanks rolling into Wisconsin and Pennslyvania... because these two nations will no longer be able to have these stuff in the Americas anymore (because I take the land away from them)

Point 5: This fits in exactly with the Monroe Doctrine, thus it is not bullshit.

Point 6: If Military Command and Netherlands were NOT Dweladelfina's allies, or support Dweladelfina in the upcoming war, *THEN* Sharina would not aim to seize Venzeula from Netherlands and Michigan + Ohio from Military Command.

Point 7: Great Romeo is another EATO ally of Dweladelfina, so he will lose his base in America (Costa Rica) as well.

Point 8 (most important): Sharina will eliminate all EATO presence from the Americas for two reasons. First, Sharina will remove all EATO claims and territory in the Americas. Consquently, EATO will have no land, air, or sea bases in the Americas to threaten Sharina or Confederate States of America with. Thus, fulfuilling the Monroe doctrine.

-----------------------------------------

People can be assholes IC'wise, but be gentlemen and awesome people OOC'ly. For example, Chronosia or Automagfreek can be totally nasty and evil IC'wise, but they are great people to chat and interact with OOC'ly.

So if I sound like an asshole, I am doing it from an IC perpsective, not the "real" me or OOC me.

Yes, I know the difference between OCC and IC. Some people have trouble telling the two apart but I don't.

Now for a redress of my points. Yes, your right you could rename them. But, Earth V is based on realism and the United States Military would have just added a Letter.

Second- ok you explain how they work. My two main problems with the weapons are these. First, where are these weapons based? If, their based on Earth you going to need a massive power source to be able to get enough power for the gamma rays to make it through the atmosphere. This is why most equipment to detect gamma rays and that’s just to detect gamma rays are based on satellites in orbit. If, you place this gamma wave weapon in space the power regiments are going to be huge and the satellite its based on is going to be massive. Also, you are aware that most modern military equipment has been developed with an EMP shield to protect it. Depending on the shielding level they are even able to survive one generated by an Nuclear Explosion. So unless you plan on detonating a Nuke in Space, those weapons are for all practical purposes worthless.

In fact- I would feel better if all Space stuff was left out. Keep the battle on Planet Earth. When you started up Earth V its tech was set in the 2015's-2020's I think I read somewhere. I asked around and its not set in that time frame anymore. Its set now in 2006. That includes the Space Stations, Assault Shuttles so on and so on. As of 2006 Metal Storm is only a prototype. Hell, the company wasn't even around till 1994. The technology only recently has become available to even develop a prototype. If it ever does enter into military service you looking at 2015 at the earliest. As, for the assault shuttles- like the Aurora. Theirs no proof one way or another. Besides what exactly would its purpose be. Is the shuttle even able to support weapons. It wasn't designed for that, so I highly doubt it could power and support a weapon. The only place you'd be able to put the weapon is in the Cargo Bay. That just leaves the power requirements.

OK, so your Navy prefers Battleships. Then that’s fine- that also means it wouldn't waste the money building so many carriers. Also, that means you wouldn't have advance Carriers like the Nimitz Class SuperCarriers at your command. If your Navy is stuck in the Battleship mind set its going to be hard for those proposaling Air power to get the funds to build Carriers. A Carrier and a Battleship are going to cost about the same.

The US military had a long series of fights over that very issue. It lasted all through the late 1920s and into the 30's with it finally ending in 1941 with the destruction of the Pacific Fleet and most of the Battleships. I'm not saying you wouldn't build them just be aware if your Admirals and those who manage the budget see someone proposal to build a Carrier their going to do everything in their power to kill it. When World War Two started we only had four carriers in service. Compare that to over 30 Battleships plus numerous cruisers-destroyers-supply ships so on. You only have so much in your budget. If, your focusing on Submarines, Cruisers, Battleships and Destroyers its easily to leave Carriers behind. Just so your aware of that.

Ask and you shall receive- here’s a link that has all the US equipment. Enjoy-http://www.fas.org/main/content.jsp?formAction=325&projectId=20

BTW- the Wasp is an Amphibious Assault Ship.

This last post brings up a very very very very very very good point. We need to organize all of our extraneous posts, because I know that there are several RP's being mounted at the moment, but they're literally all over the place. I'd love to make another thread that organizes them all, but seriously, I think I'm volunteering for so much work right now, in all of my various RPs. But again, I'd rather have order than chaos, so I just might end up doing it...

Since no one took a hint, I will posting a relay thread, for all RP threads to be posted, and provide an easy link to all EV relevant threads. That'll make everyone's lives much easier if there's only one place to find the threads...

To address United Earthlings points.

OOC / IC differentation:

I knew you (United Earthlings) could see the difference between IC and OOC, but Dweladelfina apparently doesn't (and does personal attacks like "You retard" or such in response to my IC actions).

Space stuff:

Cessini type nuclear reactors in space are possible so it does exist a capability for high energy generation in space exceeding solar power panels. Thus it is possible for high energy weapons (gamma rays for instance) to be employed in space.

As for the space shuttle, it isn't a FT or Post-MT stretch to install metalstorm type of guns on the space shuttle in a configuration very similiar to WW-2 fighters + bombers guns (guns mounted on wings).

My Gamma-Ray weapons (powered by Cessini type space nuclear reactors) are designed to KO any enemy satellite. If the satellite has EMP hardening, thats where my space shuttles with guns comes in.

The scramble to weaponize space between Sharina + the UFSR + Fodmodmatdol (another very old school Earth V player) boosted research efforts in space weapons and space tech. Suppose the Cold War with the USSR continued in RL until today, the US probably would have pushed Metalstorm quicker or developed other stuff like Gamma-Ray weapons to KO Soviet satellites or developed Space Shuttles with guns on them. I am merely extrapolating possible hypothetical RL US-USSR Cold War lasting into the 21st century as the basis for more tech due to Sharina-UFSR Cold War in Earth V. In fact, tech accelerates rapidly during the Cold War as each side tries to outdo each other and develops "I counter this / that" tech. If not for the RL Cold War, we probably wouldn't be as technologically advanced as we are today.

Earth V isn't in 2006 anymore. It's somewhere between 2007 - 2009 by now as it would be unreasonable and unrealistic to have Earth V frozen in 1 year forever (the year staying at 2006 permanently).

Navy Stuff:

The US had 4 Iowa Battleships in service until the 1990's, and still has the USS Iowa on "call up" duty today. So Sharina could very easily have had Iowas. Sharina has the 4 original Iowa's and decided to build 6 more during the cold war with the UFSR (plus the Montana battleships).

As for the Montanas, Sharina sought the need for heavily armored warships to withstand any UFSR fleet action, as Sharina had a shitload of ocean to cover during the Cold War. Thus, the Montana concept was brought back from the "scrap heap" that it was put into during WW-2, and then put in production in the 1970's onwards.

The first Nimitz supercarrier was commissioned (ready to sail) by 1975 in RL. Sharina built the Nimitz at approximately the same time in Earth V (as the tech and concept was there). The whole battleship VS carrier thing was in WW-2. Sharina formed in the 1960's, when carriers are considered "must have" ships AND in RL 1960's the US still fielded the Iowa Battleships in the Vietnam War.

The Cold War with the UFSR showed how vulnerable yet vital carriers were. Carriers were necessary to project air power, but made for poor command ships (and not so stellar hull protection as jet fuel and jet stuff inside could rape a carrier's guts like in WW-2). Battleships made for good command ships (very tough hull, and could withstand far more than carriers), but made for poor air power projection. Thus, Sharina decided to build BOTH, to supplement each other.

Carriers aircraft covers the battleship (gives AAA defense, plus projected air power in offensive operations), while the battleship supplies coastal bombardment and anti-ship bombardment (plus protecting Admirals and vital command personnel inside its tough hull).

Here's the said thread - promised and underway

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=501393

I will be filling in as many individual posts as I can afford to fit in, but honestly, I will need people to reviewing it make certain it's up-to-date.

Earth V isn't in 2006 anymore. It's somewhere between 2007 - 2009 by now as it would be unreasonable and unrealistic to have Earth V frozen in 1 year forever (the year staying at 2006 permanently).

Oh, yes it is. This is from the rules, first page in this thread:

Time is NS time, but the year is always the RL year.

If you're going to have 3-5 years per RL-year, this will soon be PMT, and we're going to loose the reality. We don't want that.


Thus, Sharina decided to build BOTH, to supplement each other.
It's good when you don't NEED to make a choice...

And I must copy United Earthling's thoughts about the star wars. I thought we should keep EV realistic, and stay with RL equipment that exists today. If it doesn't exist today, then you cannot have it in EV either. Very simple, no arguing.

Consider this confirmed already. I am going to create an official factbook thread soon as this thread is only a RP thread, not a factbook one.

Let me know :p...

Oh, yes it is. This is from the rules, first page in this thread:

Time is NS time, but the year is always the RL year.

If you're going to have 3-5 years per RL-year, this will soon be PMT, and we're going to loose the reality. We don't want that.


It's good when you don't NEED to make a choice...

And I must copy United Earthling's thoughts about the star wars. I thought we should keep EV realistic, and stay with RL equipment that exists today. If it doesn't exist today, then you cannot have it in EV either. Very simple, no arguing.

I very strongly disagree with the "year is always RL year". This is very unrealistic, even more so than going Post-MT by next RL year.

Let me put it this way. How the hell can things progress if time is frozen as such? For example, if the year remains in 2006, then it will be impossible to RP or do anything. You see, invasions need MONTHS to mobilize and initate (look at RL Iraq for an example of this). So lets say the Sharina VS EATO American war begins in September 2006 (RL time right now). It will probably continue for several months or even a couple of years at most. Thus, the war will continue until 2007 - 2009.

By this reasoning, the war would continue for 2 RL years as per TGSR's rule. Totally unrealistic as it will effectively kill Earth V. People will have to wait a RL week before a unit reaches position or something during the war just like in RL.

Another example is... you start construction of a new carrier in 2006. It won't be finished until 2009 or 2010 in RL (thats 3 - 4 years of REAL LIFE TIME before the person can even use his Earth V carrier). The players will be 3 - 4 years older (and probably not even interested in NS anymore) by then when "Ah, the shiny new carrier is ready in Earth V!"

Thus, the time-freeze is totally and completely bullshit in my opinion, and I thus strike that rule from the Earth V rules for many good reasons.

I consider 2 RL weeks = 1 game year much more reasonable for Earth V to preserve realism. Thus, in 1 RL year (September 2007), we'll be up to the year 2032. Which shouldn't be so FT or Post-MT, really. That way, we have time progression which allows for new ships to be built, new projects to be undertaken, wars to be fought, etc. instead of everything in a "deep freeze".

Let's put this conflict in one way:

The reason the year stays at 2006 is so that R/D slows down. All of the other stuff goes by the normal convention of 1 year = 1RL week. So while you can probably conquer the world in RL year [52 NS years], you'll be stuck at the 2006 tech level until 2007 comes along to save everyone. Moreover, it solves half of the debates concerning new tech advances that happen along the way - the ones that no one ever mentioned and suddenly it appears in RL, 30 years in the past [Sel Appa knows what I'm talking about], and now everyone says that they have it... and all of that other junk.

That's the way that I've been interpreting it. Otherwise, the Qattara Project [not a R/D project, but a construction project] would be only in the commencement stages, not almost done and ready for the ceremony by this RL Sunday.

I very strongly disagree with the "year is always RL year". This is very unrealistic, even more so than going Post-MT by next RL year.

Let me put it this way. How the hell can things progress if time is frozen as such?
It is not frozen, it's fluid. And TG6R has made that clear a couple of times. And I think this rule is fine.

For example, if the year remains in 2006, then it will be impossible to RP or do anything. You see, invasions need MONTHS to mobilize and initate (look at RL Iraq for an example of this). So lets say the Sharina VS EATO American war begins in September 2006 (RL time right now). It will probably continue for several months or even a couple of years at most. Thus, the war will continue until 2007 - 2009.
No, the answer to this is that the time is fluid. Some RP's demand fast forward time, and others demand slow motion time. Take the Earth-V world cup for an example, with your suggestion it would have progressed many years for now.
Or a conference. If you're a couple of players interacting with each other, it may take a couple of weeks to finnish it. And it seems very strange that a conference should take one year to finnish, which it could be with your static suggestion.
The solution to this is fluid time, and TG6R has explained it before.

Thus, the time-freeze is totally and completely bullshit in my opinion, and I thus strike that rule from the Earth V rules for many good reasons.
So it's gone now? Hmm...
I think we should wait and see what TG6R thinks about this.

I consider 2 RL weeks = 1 game year much more reasonable for Earth V to preserve realism. Thus, in 1 RL year (September 2007), we'll be up to the year 2032. Which shouldn't be so FT or Post-MT, really. That way, we have time progression which allows for new ships to be built, new projects to be undertaken, wars to be fought, etc. instead of everything in a "deep freeze".
And in two years you're having 2064? I will NEVER participate in such an earth. I want to play realistic, modern time RP's. Remember that Earth-V is more than two years old already, and if we had your rule from the beginning it should have been 2064 today, and 2128 in two years. Miles from todays 2006 IMO.

Let's put this conflict in one way:

The reason the year stays at 2006 is so that R/D slows down. All of the other stuff goes by the normal convention of 1 year = 1RL week. So while you can probably conquer the world in RL year [52 NS years], you'll be stuck at the 2006 tech level until 2007 comes along to save everyone. Moreover, it solves half of the debates concerning new tech advances that happen along the way - the ones that no one ever mentioned and suddenly it appears in RL, 30 years in the past [Sel Appa knows what I'm talking about], and now everyone says that they have it... and all of that other junk.

That's the way that I've been interpreting it. Otherwise, the Qattara Project [not a R/D project, but a construction project] would be only in the commencement stages, not almost done and ready for the ceremony by this RL Sunday.
Exactly.

If anyone needs me to elaborate more (than simply saying I say what ALM says :)), tell me though.

Well, the 2006 thing creates several major issues.

First issue:

If the year remains 2006 for 3 more RL months (Oct, Nov, and Dec) then what happens to the things that happen between now and then? Let me put forth an example.

The Sharina - EATO war in the Americas.

Such a massive war probably would take 1, 2, or more years in RL to conduct and see it through. So logically, it would take place from 2006 to 2008 or later (depending how long the war lasts). Therefore, if the year is stuck at 2006 for 3 RL months, this means that the war can't end until we reach 2008 or 2009 or later in RL.

Second issue:

I can understand fluid time, but thats for peace talks, conferences, character RP's, or war RP's. I can also understand the need for different time progession for each RP.

However, the issue remains this. In 2006, if Sharina wins the EATO war, and using this silly 2006 rule, it would still be 2006 even though the war took several years (assume 3 years long war). Then Sharina decides to invade, say, Africa. The year still remains 2006, but this turns into an impossibility.

How can Sharina invade Africa after waging a 3 year anti-EATO war (within 1 year, an impossibility. You can't fit 3 years in 1 year- 3 =/= 1) and the several years necessary to rebuild and consolidate the victory in the EATO war (rebuild damaged cities, repopulate lands, rebuild military, etc.). All these process would probably take 5+ years before Sharina would even be able to attack Africa.

So we're talking an African invasion in 2015 after a 3 year war and 6 year rebuilding period. How the hell would 2015 fit into 2006? Makes no sense at all.

Take another example.

Sharina decides to build, say, a skyscraper in one of its cities based off the proposed Millennium Tower. That type of skyscraper would likely take 10 years to complete. This means if Sharina begins construction in 2006, it won't be finished until 2016.

Third issue:

My main concern here is that players would have to wait YEARS in RL time to wait for their new Earth V carriers, skycrapers, post-war rebuilding, etc. to be finished before being able to enjoy those "finished products".

I can guanatree you that many, if not all, players in NS won't want to stick around in a RP for 10 years in RL time to see their Millennium Tower finished, or wait 3 RL years for their new carrier to be finished.

Hell, I've seen many people get bored of NS after only a few RL months or a year. How many 2003 or 2004 nations are still around compared to the craploads of 2006 nations? Hmm?

------------------------------------

I am not arguing this issue for the sake of having Post-MT tech or anything like that. I am arguing this from a purely logical and technical standpoint.

After all, Earth V is supposed to be the most REALISTIC modern Earth RP. It would be unrealistic to have the year stuck at 2006 and try to force 2, 5, 10, 50 "years" into a single year.

Well, the 2006 thing creates several major issues.

First issue:

If the year remains 2006 for 3 more RL months (Oct, Nov, and Dec) then what happens to the things that happen between now and then? Let me put forth an example.

The Sharina - EATO war in the Americas.

Such a massive war probably would take 1, 2, or more years in RL to conduct and see it through. So logically, it would take place from 2006 to 2008 or later (depending how long the war lasts). Therefore, if the year is stuck at 2006 for 3 RL months, this means that the war can't end until we reach 2008 or 2009 or later in RL.

Second issue:

I can understand fluid time, but thats for peace talks, conferences, character RP's, or war RP's. I can also understand the need for different time progession for each RP.

However, the issue remains this. In 2006, if Sharina wins the EATO war, and using this silly 2006 rule, it would still be 2006 even though the war took several years (assume 3 years long war). Then Sharina decides to invade, say, Africa. The year still remains 2006, but this turns into an impossibility.

How can Sharina invade Africa after waging a 3 year anti-EATO war (within 1 year, an impossibility. You can't fit 3 years in 1 year- 3 =/= 1) and the several years necessary to rebuild and consolidate the victory in the EATO war (rebuild damaged cities, repopulate lands, rebuild military, etc.). All these process would probably take 5+ years before Sharina would even be able to attack Africa.

So we're talking an African invasion in 2015 after a 3 year war and 6 year rebuilding period. How the hell would 2015 fit into 2006? Makes no sense at all.

Take another example.

Sharina decides to build, say, a skyscraper in one of its cities based off the proposed Millennium Tower. That type of skyscraper would likely take 10 years to complete. This means if Sharina begins construction in 2006, it won't be finished until 2016.

Third issue:

My main concern here is that players would have to wait YEARS in RL time to wait for their new Earth V carriers, skycrapers, post-war rebuilding, etc. to be finished before being able to enjoy those "finished products".

I can guanatree you that many, if not all, players in NS won't want to stick around in a RP for 10 years in RL time to see their Millennium Tower finished, or wait 3 RL years for their new carrier to be finished.

Hell, I've seen many people get bored of NS after only a few RL months or a year. How many 2003 or 2004 nations are still around compared to the craploads of 2006 nations? Hmm?

------------------------------------

I am not arguing this issue for the sake of having Post-MT tech or anything like that. I am arguing this from a purely logical and technical standpoint.

After all, Earth V is supposed to be the most REALISTIC modern Earth RP. It would be unrealistic to have the year stuck at 2006 and try to force 2, 5, 10, 50 "years" into a single year.

I guess I logged just in time to answer this question:

All of your concerns base on the fact that it take three years to do something. So let us compare them all in a relatively simple setting.

Let's pretend we have several projects that are due out [pretend with me - I'm lonely... :( ]:

1 - a building construction takes 3 years.
2 - a war takes place over 5 years.
3 - reconstruction from that war takes 11 years.
4 - research into fusion takes 25 years.

1 - since it's not R/D, that's 3 NS years; so 3 weeks
2 - since it's not R/D, that's 5 NS years; so 5 weeks
3 - since it's not R/D, that's 11 NS years; so 11 weeks
4 - fusion research is R/D - that takes 25 RL years [actually, ideally it will happen as it happens in RL].

Basically, if it deals with an advancement in technology, it doesn't happen. What the real world supplies in terms of technology is all RL. Anything else is done by NS time. So this would-be or would-not-be war with EATO, however many weeks it takes to finish that doohicky would be how many years it takes to finish it - not the RL weeks that you toiled over writing the most perfect posts, only to find that it's all been done in vain... [ideally, this would also extend, as such that the years are little more encompassing and your nation doesn't sped 6 years fighting a war that should last for only 2].

If it's a technology that doesn't exist now, it doesn't exist inn EV. If it's a brand new building that reaches the sky, it's done in NS time [although it'd be kinda hard to build it without newe technology, which is kinda the point to some extent...]. I sincerely that this clarifies the point about the time scale and its fluidity.

I appreciate your input, ALM.

However, your statement does have its problems.

1 - a building construction takes 3 years.
2 - a war takes place over 5 years.
3 - reconstruction from that war takes 11 years.
4 - research into fusion takes 25 years.

1 - since it's not R/D, that's 3 NS years; so 3 weeks
2 - since it's not R/D, that's 5 NS years; so 5 weeks
3 - since it's not R/D, that's 11 NS years; so 11 weeks
4 - fusion research is R/D - that takes 25 RL years [actually, ideally it will happen as it happens in RL].

Are you saying that we're having 2 different timelines going on? That doesn't happen in RL.

2050 in non-tech time while being stuck in 2006 in tech time?

Take 1 RL year. By the time we reach September 2007 in RL, we'd be in year 2371 in Earth V non-tech time. Its utterly ridiclious to have no tech development or progression in 300+ years.

We're not in the Dark Ages anymore. By 2371 in RL, we probably will have colonies in Alpha Centauri or something.

But this isnt RL, its EV. Technically if what your saying is the truth than we would be WAY past 2006 tech now. I started a few months or what have you ago and we were in 06 tech.

I must put for my agreement with Miim's statements.

The only qualms I have about a system of rapid time-progression would be the whole "Beam me up scotty" atmosphere that will inevitably come about.

(holds up a finger)

Ah, but with a slow progression of time as opposed to NO progression of time would be realistic, which Earth V is supposedly all about- REALISM.

Thus, if we adopted a 2 RL weeks = 1 game-year frame, we will only advance 20'ish game years every RL year. How many Earth V'ers have lasted a RL year? The only ones that have done so (and still are around) is myself, TGSR, Vineyard, and Kopparbergs.

In September 2007 (RL), how many of Earth V's new 2006 members will still be around? Same goes for September 2008 (RL).

Plus, it makes sense for Earth V to have started around 1960's for all the stuff in it to have happened between then and now (all the UFSR stuff, the wars, the annexations, etc.) So it should be pretty consistent with the 20 game-years per RL year timeframe. 2006 - 1960's = 40 game years or 2 RL years since Earth V started in September or Oct. 2004.

So it shouldn't be a stretch to have Earth V reach 2020 by September 2007. Then by September 2008, it'll be 2040.

At this rate, we won't reach the FT / Star Trek stuff (2100+ AD) until 2015+ in RL, and I extremely doubt Earth V'ers will be around RP'ing in Earth V in 2015 in RL.

I appreciate your input, ALM.

However, your statement does have its problems.



Are you saying that we're having 2 different timelines going on? That doesn't happen in RL.

2050 in non-tech time while being stuck in 2006 in tech time?

Take 1 RL year. By the time we reach September 2007 in RL, we'd be in year 2371 in Earth V non-tech time. Its utterly ridiclious to have no tech development or progression in 300+ years.

We're not in the Dark Ages anymore. By 2371 in RL, we probably will have colonies in Alpha Centauri or something.

Ok, its time for me to throw in my two cents.

Actually having two different time lines can happen in real life. As you approach the speed of light time as you perceive it would slow down why those not traveling at the speed of light time would remain pretty constant. Time as we understand today is a weird thing.

Your trying really had to understand this whole time thing. So let me alleviate some of your headache. If you having trouble grasping it here’s a simple analog.

Time here on Earth V is like a clock. It doesn't know what day it is or year or month it just says what the time is. It just ticks away day after day with the same times. So for an example say an invasion was conducted during an 24 hour period- as the clock struck 12:00 A.M. a new day starts and everything resets. However, everything that happen the previous day has happen. Consider it the same day repeating over and over again but with different outcomes. With ever now and then the clock being set forward an hour. This we can consider a new year beginning.

But this isn’t RL, its EV. Technically if what your saying is the truth than we would be WAY past 2006 tech now. I started a few months or what have you ago and we were in 06 tech.

I must put for my agreement with Miim's statements.

I'm happy with the way the time rule is now. This is what makes Earth V unique. I would hate to see that uniqueness go away. So I have to agree with Brinkman and Miim.

So it shouldn't be a stretch to have Earth V reach 2020 by September 2007. Then by September 2008, it'll be 2040.

At this rate, we won't reach the FT / Star Trek stuff (2100+ AD) until 2015+ in RL, and I extremely doubt Earth V'ers will be around RP'ing in Earth V in 2015 in RL.
To be honest. I really don't care which year number we'll say it is, as I try to avoid using year numbers in my RP's. As long as we're restricted to RL-tech (existing today), we can use whatever year number we want to.

EDIT: I too agree with United Earthlings, Brinkman and Miim. And TG6R.

My last comment about this, before I turn this to everyone else - because I'm getting tired of saying the same exact thing in four different ways...

There is only one timeline.

Let us consider this hypothetical world. In this world, we have people who are semi-intelligent, in as such that they function like normal humans, except for one huge difference. Instead of researching at the rate of 1 year equivalent, it takes the same people 52 years to do the same research that we could do in 1 year.

Now, considering that time is relative, these people are actually very efficient, becacuse their year is much faster than our year, such that one of their years is equal to one of our weeks. In sum, they can build, move, do things that we can in one of our own years, using the same technology and available resources that we have. In this way, the tech levels between these two worlds remains constant between the two at all times. However, there is only one timeline.

If there are two timelines, it would be that there is a time discreptancy between RL time and this universe's time - but then again, this discreptancy is something that is beyond our reach and will exist regardless of the circumstances surrounding all of this nonsense - since they exist in some form, and we exist in our own form.


I think the problem here is that we keep imaging this world in some construct of our own, and the honest truth is that it isn't. It's a completely different world. Assured, the humans, the relative prehistory, and the relative knowledge, truths, and capacities in that world are the same, but honestly - the Cold War ended sometime between 1985 and 1991 in our world, and the USA is not split into a Technocracy and a CSA derivative. So, once we take the leap back and realize that this is a different world, we can try to manage the constructs in such that we can manage similarities between our world and this world [after all, we are Gods among men, with our own nation to follow under us] such that this world mirrors aspects of our own - so its seem realistic to us. If you're completely insane, you might confuse this world with the world in which we exist, in which case, I'd recommend two tablespoons of Vicks and 42 hours of sleep a day.

Quite frankly, if we wanted to, we could simply say that Star Trek or Stars Wars tech doesn't exist in this world, and that would probably solve much of our problems with tech and development.


So, the moral of the story - EV is its own world and has its own timeline and variable capacities; among these capacities is such that their year is equivalent to one of our own weeks. Another very important capacity is that they research at the rate of 52 years for every one of our own years, which in sum is the same rate as our own world. However, in all other aspects, they can perform all those functions in one of their years for every one of ours - which means that they can build what we build in one year in one week.

I hope that this helps significantly. Otherwise, I'm going to bang my head on the table until either breaks.

I can understand what you're trying to say.

However, the problem still stands. We did progress from 1960's to the 2000's in Earth V (the whole UFSR Cold War and everything, including tech and stuff).

I just have a very difficult time swallowing this time rule as I follow a very logical approach to this. I know Earth V isn't unique in this aspect- in fact, mainstream NS modern-tech RP's are stuck in 2006 or 2010 or what have you, while Earth II is in the similiar situation with this.

Again, its still very difficult for me to swallow having a person born in 2006, then die at 100 years old in 2006 when it should be 2106.

Right- I've been having major computer troubles. Major. I may be spotty for the next few days, so:

-I'm solidifying control of all areas claimed by me.
-I'm advancing against the chinese areas
-I'm continuing the build-up of reserves

Should anyone have the pressing urge to attack me (hopefully not! :)), wait until I'm back and we'll fluid-time it.

Sorry for the problems.

Right- I've been having major computer troubles. Major. I may be spotty for the next few days, so:

-I'm solidifying control of all areas claimed by me.
-I'm advancing against the chinese areas
-I'm continuing the build-up of reserves

Should anyone have the pressing urge to attack me (hopefully not! :)), wait until I'm back and we'll fluid-time it.

Sorry for the problems.
OOC: To bad with computer troubles... Hope you'll manage to fix it.
A hade a minor incident here yesterday. I spilled a glass of water over my laptop... The laptop had to be drying all the afternoon... I was lucky, it went good. Puh!

Right- I've been having major computer troubles. Major. I may be spotty for the next few days, so:

-I'm solidifying control of all areas claimed by me.
-I'm advancing against the chinese areas
-I'm continuing the build-up of reserves

Should anyone have the pressing urge to attack me (hopefully not! :)), wait until I'm back and we'll fluid-time it.

Sorry for the problems.

Whatever you do, don't try to fix it by going over it with a dyson. Because that doesn't fix it.

The following nations have been hereto placed on the infamous Red list. you know the spiel - 48 hours:

Warta Endor [I hate putting him here, but he hasn't been on since 11SEPT2006, and his last post is dated 06SEPT2006 - is he on vacation or what?]
Asherton

As I stated all further OCC comments I had would be directed here.

To the post in question-http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11752997&postcount=722

I'm getting a bit fed up to be honest. I don't doubt or complain about other players / nations militaries. I don't raise a stink when Great Romeo stated he has 50,000+ tanks. I also don't raise a stink with Vineyard's military stats. So why is everybody raising a stink about my stats? Is it because all of it is prime US military tech?


If you have a problem have them address it. I agree with you statement about Great Romeo. Where are his older tanks? Russia in RL does have around 50,000 tanks but most of them are older models not everyone a new model. Where are his T-80s, T-72s, T-64s and T-62s so on and so on. Actually most of those ships are have not been scrapped. Of the 51 Los Angeles Class attack submarines to have been commissioned only 11 have been decommissioned. Go to the FAS website I gave you in a earlier post and see for yourself. It lists when those ships hulls were laid down, commissioned and if by chance decommissioned.

So, that goes for everyone. If you have a problem with the Military Fact book, have them address that issue. If your wondering I'm in no way exempt. Go through my military declaration, if you have an issue with something in it. Bring it to my attention and I address it. Just keep in mind I'll be the first to admit it’s a work in progress. Saying its half done would be unfair. In fact the next time I go in their I add that in.

You think I didn't have enough shipyards to pull all this off? With the budget, I could have built new shipyards easily (back in 1970's - 1980's) if it became necessary. I have crap loads of prime harbor estate on the Western Coast, Canadian coast, plus the Baja Gulf. The Baja Gulf is probably the world's largest natural harbor and could easily hold 50 shipyards within it no problem.

Ok, good you address that problem. You built loads of new shipyards. Good for you, thanks for addressing that problem. So, can I add the cost of you building a massive new shipyard network to your never ending budget? In this budget also includes, a renew Battleship program not just renewed but expanded. Since while were at it, you also built up lots of new Naval Bases to house and support all these ships right? Hell, I'll assume you built brand new army bases and air force bases for the ones lost to the C.S.A. right? OK, so those ships are moth-balled. Can you add those to your military declaration please then. How many of which type would be the most nice to see.

Just a few more things. If I hear you say I have this budget I can afford anything I'm going to scream then I'm going to make you scream when I post a complete breakdown of your budget and how your entire country is in debt from massive over spending. Try me if you think I'm joking. I got some very good sources I have acquire over the years. I'll just leave you with this last thought. Your nation started out in the 60's which means you had the population base of whatever nation you started with in Earth V. From the 60's to the 80's or early 90's from my guest. You started a massive armaments pprogram for all services and also conquered modern day Canada, Mexico, all of Central America minus of course Costa Rica and of course those two South American countries. Plus you laid claim over Greenland, the South Poler Region and of course some of those nice Caribbean Islands. I admit you were busy, but did you ever factor in the cost of waging all those wars. Wars by their nature are very expensive- the Second World War, the Cold War, Vietnam so on and so on. You fought a lot of wars it would seem. Did you factor that into your nice budget because I have. Last point- your budget hasn't always been 3.1 trillion.

Note: Please don't take this personally, but I'm a perfectionist and I like things to be perfect and make sense as much as possible. You don't even wanna know how many times I have edit my military Fact book to make it seem more real. I also ask myself the same x number of questions. Where would I build that said piece of equipment, can I afford it, can the nation in question its going to be base in support it and finally would my nation(s) in question be able to build and support that number I have built.

If you also think I'm picking on you then to prove I'm not I give you a nice complement. Your Ground Defenders and you Air Navy are perfect. I would like for you to have listed which type of how many you have of the 10,000 number of aircraft of varying types. But, even I know perfection is not possible and I am willing to overlook that.

I realize all the points you are trying to make United Earthlings, and if this was a RP modeled entirely after real life nations and stuff then I'd agree and support you 100% on the military stuff.

There's three issues, though.

First, I am attempting to maintain the simple budget rule conversion from NS nation to Earth V nation for a degree of realism and fairness to everybody involved. Instead of having nations go "OMG! I have 50 trillion dollar defense budget!" like in mainstream NS, I attempted to reduce that problem to more reasonable levels. This system also incorporates how you manage your NS nation on the NS main page (hence the whole Thirdgeek percentage of budget stuff).

Second, in the real world, some nations have more robust economies and bigger budgets to use than other nations of similiar population / land size. For example the US has more money to burn than the USSR, and the USSR had a slightly bigger population than the US during the Cold War. In Earth V, this is represented by players having different budgets- for example, I have a far bigger defense budget than Dweladelfina Prime or Military Command (same way the US vs USSR budgets).

Third, some nations have been here in Earth V far longer than others. In fact, Sharina, TGSR, and Vineyard are probably the only nations that remained relatively intact since the first days of Earth V. Compare this to the other players who quit after a few weeks or months, or end up quitting NS because of RL problems (Norleans / Mauiwowee comes to mind). Consquently, the "older" Earth V nations would have had many more years to implement their budgets, builds, military stuff, tech's, etc. than the newer Earth V nations.

----------------------------------------

If you want to go the ultra-realistic way, nations that are based in the territories of former players should have substantially weaker economies and military. Take Venzeula for example. It has gone through not 1, but 3 nation changes. First it was a territory of Fodmodmatmol (then he quit), then territory of Mauiwowee (then he quit), then now territory of yourself (United Earthlings). This means there were at least 3 periods of anarchy or civil war within Venezeula before the new government takes power via successive players, which would have wrecked its economy considerably. Same goes for European nations or Brazil or such. They have had at least 2 or 3 player-changes since Earth V started up- I think France changed hands 4 or 5 times already. Compare that to the lands that TGSR and Sharina have held and / or conquered have remained within these two nations and haven't changed "hands" or had any anarchy or civil war periods since the first days of Earth V and subsquent days / weeks when new conquests were added.

However, we don't factor those economy + population damages when new players take over as it would be far too complicated and would make things too crazy for new players to keep track of.

By the same token, exacting details like economic builds, new facilities, and so forth are generally assumed to have occured to allow for the situation (as long as it is possible). Take my 30 carriers for example. If I only had a $100 billion total defense budget like a number of Earth V nations do, then 30 carriers would have been an impossibility. Maybe 3 or 4 carriers with $100 billion. If I declared I had 100 carriers, even with my multi-trillion budget, that would have been impossible.

Take my nation for example. I had roughly 40 - 50 years to allocate funds, resources, and time to build the extra shipyards, bases, and such I needed. As for the CSA, that nation came into being only a short while ago- the nation before the CSA (and practically the exact same controlled lands) was Norleans. So I didn't lose my airbases or army bases all of a sudden in one fell swoop. Norleans existed from roughly mid 1970's to the late 1990's, then anarchy until CSA (Nuevo Rico) popped up in 2006. So I had years to slowly build up new bases in the lands I held to accomodate the growing military and conquests.

Take Dweladelfina Prime and most EATO nations as another example. Pratically all of them "popped up" in 2006 after a period of anarchy and civil war after the collapse of the previous players (as a result of them quitting or MIA or what have you). So new projects for EATO like new shipyards, new carriers, new fleets, etc. would take several years to pull off, considering some of their old military stuff would have been damaged or destroyed during the anarchy / civil war in-between the periods of player control (Mauiwowee controlled Brazil initially, then civil war / anarchy period where military gets damaged or lose units + men, then Dweladelfina takes control of Brazil and renames Brazil Dweladelfina or such).

If Sharina was a new nation, "popped up" in 2006 with the rest of the new Earth V players, then I'd completely agree that building 30 carriers and 30 battleships (10 Iowa + 20 Montana) in a snap for 2006 would be ridiclious. Alas, I have had nearly 31 years to build 30 Nimitz carriers (1975 - 2006) as the first Nimitz was built in 1975 like RL. A carrier every year isn't such a far-fetched number, unlike building 10 carriers in 1 year or 20,000 tanks in 1 year, or what have you.

See what I mean? Older nations do have the advantage of having longer to build up their infrastructure, decades of budget allocatement to various projects, and so on. So it happens that Sharina is one of the "Original" nations of Earth V, with a large defense budget and population base according to Earth V rules that apply to everybody, players and mods alike, and that it has had stability for decades whereas the new Earth V nations are "fresh out of the door" or so to speak.

A good anology as follows. Keep in mind, I'm comparing the longveity of nations in Earth V, does not correspond to actual NS nation join-date, just an analogy.

2002 NS nations (in Earth V, not NS itself) - the Original Nations of Earth V

Sharina
TGSR
Kormanthor (collapsed)
Fodmodmatmol (collapsed)
Doomingsland (collapsed)
Castillanos (collapsed)
New Soviets (collapsed)

2003 NS nations (in Earth V, not NS itself) - the Second Nations of Earth V

Vineyard
Great Romeo (Serbia portion)
Mauiwowee (collapsed)
Norleans (collapsed)
Tenebricosis (collapsed- was the founding member of UFSR)
Jonothana (collapsed)
Dracun Imperium (collapsed)
Virgin Incursion (collapsed)
USSNA (collapsed)

2004 NS nations (in Earth V, not NS itself) - Middle aged nations of Earth V

Kopparbergs
Warta Endor
Ato-Sara (collapsed)
Karond Kar (collapsed)

2005 NS nations (in Earth V, not NS itself) - Veteran "Newbie" nations of Earth V

Karond Kar (second incarnation- collapsed)

2006 NS nations (in Earth V, not NS itself) - Green "Newbie" nations of Earth V

Alif Laam Miim
United Earthlings
Dweladelfina Prime
Persecution And Hatred
Military Command
Brinkman Isle
Nuevo Rico
Samtonia
Whittlefield
Asian China
H-Town Tejas
Sistan (collapsed)
Vietmexico (collapsed)

So you can see, the "2002 nations" of Earth V have had far more time to develop, conquer, build, and expand than the "2006 nations".

Hope everything I've said in this post made sense.

The following nations have been hereto placed on the infamous Red list. you know the spiel - 48 hours:

Warta Endor [I hate putting him here, but he hasn't been on since 11SEPT2006, and his last post is dated 06SEPT2006 - is he on vacation or what?]
Asherton

I TG'ed Warta Endor about his NS activity a few days ago and he responded with a TG. I'm enclosing an excerpt from it that is revelant to Earth V, as portions of his TG had some personal stuff and non Earth-V related stuff.

I'm extremely busy with school at the moment, running though days from 9 to 6...

I'm afraid that (again) I can't continue with E20. It's really sad that every time I want to get involved something comes in between.

As for E5, I want to keep as active as possible, but I'm afraid that won't happen till my autumn break. You have FOAM control and you can use Warta Endorean forces.

If you doubt the authenicity of the TG, I can post a screenshot of it. You can also ask Warta Endor for authenicity.

I just want to add that Sharina bought Ecuador from me in january 2005 (I controlled Argentina by then).

The link is here:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7979794#post7979794

I TG'ed Warta Endor about his NS activity a few days ago and he responded with a TG. I'm enclosing an excerpt from it that is revelant to Earth V, as portions of his TG had some personal stuff and non Earth-V related stuff.



If you doubt the authenicity of the TG, I can post a screenshot of it. You can also ask Warta Endor for authenicity.

I just want to know where he is. I'm glad that he still wants to deal with EV, and hopefully, he will come back soon. [fall break for me is next week!!!]

I realize all the points you are trying to make United Earthlings, and if this was a RP modeled entirely after real life nations and stuff then I'd agree and support you 100% on the military stuff.

There's three issues, though.

First, I am attempting to maintain the simple budget rule conversion from NS nation to Earth V nation for a degree of realism and fairness to everybody involved. Instead of having nations go "OMG! I have 50 trillion dollar defense budget!" like in mainstream NS, I attempted to reduce that problem to more reasonable levels. This system also incorporates how you manage your NS nation on the NS main page (hence the whole Thirdgeek percentage of budget stuff).

Second, in the real world, some nations have more robust economies and bigger budgets to use than other nations of similiar population / land size. For example the US has more money to burn than the USSR, and the USSR had a slightly bigger population than the US during the Cold War. In Earth V, this is represented by players having different budgets- for example, I have a far bigger defense budget than Dweladelfina Prime or Military Command (same way the US vs USSR budgets).

Third, some nations have been here in Earth V far longer than others. In fact, Sharina, TGSR, and Vineyard are probably the only nations that remained relatively intact since the first days of Earth V. Compare this to the other players who quit after a few weeks or months, or end up quitting NS because of RL problems (Norleans / Mauiwowee comes to mind). Consquently, the "older" Earth V nations would have had many more years to implement their budgets, builds, military stuff, tech's, etc. than the newer Earth V nations.

----------------------------------------

If you want to go the ultra-realistic way, nations that are based in the territories of former players should have substantially weaker economies and military. Take Venzeula for example. It has gone through not 1, but 3 nation changes. First it was a territory of Fodmodmatmol (then he quit), then territory of Mauiwowee (then he quit), then now territory of yourself (United Earthlings). This means there were at least 3 periods of anarchy or civil war within Venezeula before the new government takes power via successive players, which would have wrecked its economy considerably. Same goes for European nations or Brazil or such. They have had at least 2 or 3 player-changes since Earth V started up- I think France changed hands 4 or 5 times already. Compare that to the lands that TGSR and Sharina have held and / or conquered have remained within these two nations and haven't changed "hands" or had any anarchy or civil war periods since the first days of Earth V and subsquent days / weeks when new conquests were added.

However, we don't factor those economy + population damages when new players take over as it would be far too complicated and would make things too crazy for new players to keep track of.

By the same token, exacting details like economic builds, new facilities, and so forth are generally assumed to have occured to allow for the situation (as long as it is possible). Take my 30 carriers for example. If I only had a $100 billion total defense budget like a number of Earth V nations do, then 30 carriers would have been an impossibility. Maybe 3 or 4 carriers with $100 billion. If I declared I had 100 carriers, even with my multi-trillion budget, that would have been impossible.

Take my nation for example. I had roughly 40 - 50 years to allocate funds, resources, and time to build the extra shipyards, bases, and such I needed. As for the CSA, that nation came into being only a short while ago- the nation before the CSA (and practically the exact same controlled lands) was Norleans. So I didn't lose my airbases or army bases all of a sudden in one fell swoop. Norleans existed from roughly mid 1970's to the late 1990's, then anarchy until CSA (Nuevo Rico) popped up in 2006. So I had years to slowly build up new bases in the lands I held to accomodate the growing military and conquests.

Take Dweladelfina Prime and most EATO nations as another example. Pratically all of them "popped up" in 2006 after a period of anarchy and civil war after the collapse of the previous players (as a result of them quitting or MIA or what have you). So new projects for EATO like new shipyards, new carriers, new fleets, etc. would take several years to pull off, considering some of their old military stuff would have been damaged or destroyed during the anarchy / civil war in-between the periods of player control (Mauiwowee controlled Brazil initially, then civil war / anarchy period where military gets damaged or lose units + men, then Dweladelfina takes control of Brazil and renames Brazil Dweladelfina or such).

If Sharina was a new nation, "popped up" in 2006 with the rest of the new Earth V players, then I'd completely agree that building 30 carriers and 30 battleships (10 Iowa + 20 Montana) in a snap for 2006 would be ridiclious. Alas, I have had nearly 31 years to build 30 Nimitz carriers (1975 - 2006) as the first Nimitz was built in 1975 like RL. A carrier every year isn't such a far-fetched number, unlike building 10 carriers in 1 year or 20,000 tanks in 1 year, or what have you.

See what I mean? Older nations do have the advantage of having longer to build up their infrastructure, decades of budget allocatement to various projects, and so on. So it happens that Sharina is one of the "Original" nations of Earth V, with a large defense budget and population base according to Earth V rules that apply to everybody, players and mods alike, and that it has had stability for decades whereas the new Earth V nations are "fresh out of the door" or so to speak.

A good anology as follows. Keep in mind, I'm comparing the longveity of nations in Earth V, does not correspond to actual NS nation join-date, just an analogy.

2002 NS nations (in Earth V, not NS itself) - the Original Nations of Earth V

Sharina
TGSR
Kormanthor (collapsed)
Fodmodmatmol (collapsed)
Doomingsland (collapsed)
Castillanos (collapsed)
New Soviets (collapsed)

2003 NS nations (in Earth V, not NS itself) - the Second Nations of Earth V

Vineyard
Great Romeo (Serbia portion)
Mauiwowee (collapsed)
Norleans (collapsed)
Tenebricosis (collapsed- was the founding member of UFSR)
Jonothana (collapsed)
Dracun Imperium (collapsed)
Virgin Incursion (collapsed)
USSNA (collapsed)

2004 NS nations (in Earth V, not NS itself) - Middle aged nations of Earth V

Kopparbergs
Warta Endor
Ato-Sara (collapsed)
Karond Kar (collapsed)

2005 NS nations (in Earth V, not NS itself) - Veteran "Newbie" nations of Earth V

Karond Kar (second incarnation- collapsed)

2006 NS nations (in Earth V, not NS itself) - Green "Newbie" nations of Earth V

Alif Laam Miim
United Earthlings
Dweladelfina Prime
Persecution And Hatred
Military Command
Brinkman Isle
Nuevo Rico
Samtonia
Whittlefield
Asian China
H-Town Tejas
Sistan (collapsed)
Vietmexico (collapsed)

So you can see, the "2002 nations" of Earth V have had far more time to develop, conquer, build, and expand than the "2006 nations".

Hope everything I've said in this post made sense.

Perfect sense, was just the post I've been looking for. You carefully and in good detail explained how your nation got to where it is today. That’s what I've been trying to figure out. How your nation got to where it is today. As for the military fact book, all I ask is that any and all equipment you use be listed there. That includes all equipment you have moth-balled/placed into reserve.

Indeed the 2002 nations have had lots of more time, but don't count out us new nations. Hell, since my time joining Earth V I've seen the rise and fall of more then 5 nations. They got kicked out before you fixed your jolt problems. So my nation is not as new as you may think, its been around the block a few times. I joined around the middle of August, so game time my nation is over 30 years old. Why not the hundred of years of your older nations. 30+ years is not a young nation either.

In case you wanted to add them to the list- some of the ones I've seen go the way of the dinosaurs besides Sistan and Vietmexico. Were 9th Founding as all of Ireland; Wolfensland as Sweden and Finland; Philanchez as Spain, Portugal and Morocco. I forget their name but I’ve seen the rise and fall of China twice. I’ve seen it claimed twice and fail once.

I’ve also seen the end of the Red Sea War, the Rebirth of the Vineyard Empire and the birth of various other nations. To many to count in fact.

I TG'ed Warta Endor about his NS activity a few days ago and he responded with a TG. I'm enclosing an excerpt from it that is revelant to Earth V, as portions of his TG had some personal stuff and non Earth-V related stuff.



If you doubt the authenicity of the TG, I can post a screenshot of it. You can also ask Warta Endor for authenicity.

While I believe you, I picked up a phrase years ago I have taken to heart. Hear all, trust nothing

So, if its not to much of a burden, I would like to see a screenshot of it, please.

And on that note, I couldn't think of a better time to tell you the following. The guy who is RPing India is part of our alliance, but like Warta Endor has not been active. The reason is he's at boot camp and won't be back for some time. He said he be back in 8 weeks about 2 weeks ago. So, before he lefted he made arrangements with our alliance that we would watch over his country until he got back. I can dig up the various posts if you like to prove my claim.

And on that note, I couldn't think of a better time to tell you the following. The guy who is RPing India is part of our alliance, but like Warta Endor has not been active. The reason is he's at boot camp and won't be back for some time. He said he be back in 8 weeks about 2 weeks ago. So, before he lefted he made arrangements with our alliance that we would watch over his country until he got back. I can dig up the various posts if you like to prove my claim.

Kind of. He said you could control his armed forces in a defensive manner if he were personally attacked. Otherwise, I had control of his economy and his nuclear weapons. That was the arrangement.

Kind of. He said you could control his armed forces in a defensive manner if he were personally attacked. Otherwise, I had control of his economy and his nuclear weapons. That was the arrangement.

I think Sharina starting World War 3 would in this case qualify for him being attacked. It states in our alliance that an attack on one member is an attack on all members. So, as I said in my orginal statement- we the members of the EATO alliance are watching over his country. Making sure no one attacks him and making sure no attacks are launched from his territory.

I think Sharina starting World War 3 would in this case qualify for him being attacked. It states in our alliance that an attack on one member is an attack on all members. So, as I said in my orginal statement- we the members of the EATO alliance are watching over his country. Making sure no one attacks him and making sure no attacks are launched from his territory.

No. He specifically said no use of his military except to defend his own lands if he himself (not an alliance member) were attacked. Him saying that kind of goes over anything that an alliance he's in has as its tenets- he's said that his forces will stay in India, no foreign forces will be allowed to move into India in force, and no attacks will be able to be based out of India. Including by his allies.

That would also imply he doesn't expect EATO military aid if attacked, but wants EATO members to direct his defenses as if they were the Republic of India's player (in essence, taking Azaha's persona). But he was very clear that he wouldn't help any other nation out but his own in muilitary matters- economics, he left far more open and basically told me to do anyt deal that was good for India and allies.

He said this, he said that. Where is your evidence? I can claim that he said I will get 200,000 people a week for slaves, but unless I back it up with proof, my claims cannot be justified.

He said this, he said that. Where is your evidence? I can claim that he said I will get 200,000 people a week for slaves, but unless I back it up with proof, my claims cannot be justified.
He specifically told me on MSN messenger. :cool:

He specifically told me on MSN messenger. :cool:

Im sorry, what did he tell you? My statement was directed at both sides of the argument.

Perfect sense, was just the post I've been looking for. You carefully and in good detail explained how your nation got to where it is today. That’s what I've been trying to figure out. How your nation got to where it is today. As for the military fact book, all I ask is that any and all equipment you use be listed there. That includes all equipment you have moth-balled/placed into reserve.

Indeed the 2002 nations have had lots of more time, but don't count out us new nations. Hell, since my time joining Earth V I've seen the rise and fall of more then 5 nations. They got kicked out before you fixed your jolt problems. So my nation is not as new as you may think, its been around the block a few times. I joined around the middle of August, so game time my nation is over 30 years old. Why not the hundred of years of your older nations. 30+ years is not a young nation either.

In case you wanted to add them to the list- some of the ones I've seen go the way of the dinosaurs besides Sistan and Vietmexico. Were 9th Founding as all of Ireland; Wolfensland as Sweden and Finland; Philanchez as Spain, Portugal and Morocco. I forget their name but I’ve seen the rise and fall of China twice. I’ve seen it claimed twice and fail once.

I’ve also seen the end of the Red Sea War, the Rebirth of the Vineyard Empire and the birth of various other nations. To many to count in fact.

Gotcha.

I will try to add the "mothballs" / Reserve thing later. Jolt has been acting retarded all week for me and I'm sure for other players as well.

I will also take a screenshot of WE's TG, but I will have to blot out the personal info for privacy reasons. I will post it later today or tomorrow if Jolt doesn't retard-out again.

Gotcha.

I will try to add the "mothballs" / Reserve thing later. Jolt has been acting retarded all week for me and I'm sure for other players as well.

I will also take a screenshot of WE's TG, but I will have to blot out the personal info for privacy reasons. I will post it later today or tomorrow if Jolt doesn't retard-out again.


Thanks, and yes it has been acting up for me too. It will go out for an hour or two sometimes. Take your time, I won't be able to dig up that information I said I would for a day or two. Going to devolt most of my time to reworking my military factbook and on getting another post up about the operation in South America. Finally, I understand about the privacy reasons. Its ok if you have to blot that out. We/I only need to see stuff that relates to Earth V.

While I believe you, I picked up a phrase years ago I have taken to heart. Hear all, trust nothing

So, if its not to much of a burden, I would like to see a screenshot of it, please.

And on that note, I couldn't think of a better time to tell you the following. The guy who is RPing India is part of our alliance, but like Warta Endor has not been active. The reason is he's at boot camp and won't be back for some time. He said he be back in 8 weeks about 2 weeks ago. So, before he lefted he made arrangements with our alliance that we would watch over his country until he got back. I can dig up the various posts if you like to prove my claim.

I've actually seen the posts for this on Jolt... in fact, it might even be in this thread... if that's any help at all..

And an FYI, Asherton has 30 minutes to clear his name. In any case, there's going to be an attack on his country, because his government failed to hear out our demands.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9290/proofmx9.jpg

This is the proof you seek, United Earthlings.

Sorry been gone for a while. i've been busy. I should be on more.

Hey guys!

Just to confirm what Sharina said: He has control of Warta Endor for the time being.

I'm in a shitty school nowadays. Starting at 9am, finished at 6pm... In two weeks I'll have a break. I should be able to get more often on NS. I'm really sorry I don't have enough time to RP properly in EV...

I'll try to check my TG's twice a week or something, but I can't guarantee anything. If anything really important comes up, Sharina knows how to contact me.

ps. Don't blow up E5 :D

ooc: The Neurons are nothing special. Designed like a 'Blackbird' Stealth Bomber, they are remote controled...
Yes. They are something special. They're an experimental technology that's only had a prototype unveiled and are projected to work past 2010.

Anyone ever hear of UAVs? Unmanned Spy planes?
Yes. Except these aren't!

Only, These are hardly your average UAV. This is a UAV with weapons. Oh, look, it's not like the UAVs that are around right now. Except the Predator. And guess what? This is more advanced, better, and (Gasp!) more futuristic than the Predator.

Also, these planes were designed back in 2003. Thats 2003 technology right there.
Wrong. Go find me a source that says they had multiple working examples, a government buyer, and all the rest that is required to make something militarily-feasible. They've designed ion engines already- but they suck. So are good ion engines tech that's acceptable for us? Hmmm? Just because something has been put up on paper(or gotten an early experimental model) does not make it acceptable technology.

GHeck, there are working ion engines. They exist! Can I make spaceships that use super-good ion engines? No. So you can't use experimental UAVs. Neither can Sharina.
I believe someone mentioned that Sharina should be able to build "Insert_Name_of_Thing_Here" because they have been designed in the past...
And are just bigger battleships..... and have been proven to work..... and were designed with technology from the late 1940s.....

but Neurons, which were designed in 2003 we have a problem with.
Which have not been proven to work.... which have one experimental prototype..... which are quite literally brand new technology.....

This all exists IRL, I dont see why I can't have these...
Because 1, it doesn't exist. Two, it doesn't exist. And three: It's non-existant. Did I mention it doesn't exist? Experimental technology trhat's extremely new and not ready to be produced until.... oh, at least 3 to 5 years from now cannot be used. It doesn't exist in producable, muilitary form. Ergo, for all intents and purposes, it does not exist.

Unless you have over 2,000 experimental craft that can just fly around. and all cost massive amounts of money. And can't carry any payload. And probably will have very large failures of components. But, somehow, that makes no military sense and I doubt you'd have that.

But, never the less, unless TG6R says they are valid, I will forfit my claims to these.
Good.

On another note, there are no such things as armed satilites,
Yes there are. They were around in the 60's. SALT (Or SALT II) just made them have to get taken down.

Sharina. I believe you made a SIC post regarding arming a satilite to take out GR's satilites. While we are perfectly capable of doing so IRL, a satilite has yet to be armed & deploied. So its not RL tech. See the problem?
False. It's been proven to work in the past in RL. Your technology has not been proven to exist- a bigger, faster UAV that carries more bombs is not around right now. Strapping crap onto satellites has been around for decades and thus falls under acceptable technology- it's using past tech. No advanced tech at all.

Were Sharina to statrt placing big rods on satellites to launch at bunkers, that'd be unsubstantiatted and thus fails. But putting explosives in satellites, moving satellites at each other to either impact kintecially or explode, and strapping nukes to satellites in space have all been done and thus are accepted. Since, you know, you can do it with technology we have now. It's not tech still in the experimental phase.

Okay - I've thought it in my head, and I've come to one conclusion...

We ought to use only RL equipment. I've seen the slippery slope of creating new techs - it's not good. In fact, most slippery slopes of tech advances often have ended in mass quits and the whatnot, because not everyone agrees that this can do that, or that one can build this stuff. Quite frankly, I think that we'd solve most of our arguments by not even having the argument. Of course, this is me - a "newb" in comparison - saying that. I understand that TG6R and Sharina have been here longer, as well as some of the other people here - but after having reviewed the past three pages, looking for a post that I had made [using it to reference something], I have thought to myself that there is just too much chatter going on here about who can build what, how it works, and whether it's RL or not. Something similar happened with Sistan [although his claims were more oriented to actual manpower claims than tech claims] and we spent most of the Red Sea debating if he could or could not do something - and vice versa. I'm not guaranteeing that it will end all of the debates, but I think after 3 pages of senseless dissertations, it's not going to work too well.

Point - if it's not being used on the field in RL, it's not RL. I hate to argue this stuff, because I think it's basically theories on future tech that is either not well-presented or not-well defended. In any case, they have proven to exhaust the majority of my previous RP experiences, and I can see that still remains true in this setting.

Of course, this is my conclusion. I'm not certain if many would agree with me, or if many would like what I say, but something's gotta give in this game. And of course, I'm just stating my conclusion. I'll go by whatever TG6R says, because he is the RP master here.

The following nations have been hereto placed on the infamous Red list. you know the spiel - 48 hours:

Warta Endor [I hate putting him here, but he hasn't been on since 11SEPT2006, and his last post is dated 06SEPT2006 - is he on vacation or what?]
Asherton

Warta Endor has not only cleared his name but he has also renewed my faith that this Red List system - it does work! Of course, Asherton is kapoot now...

Ok, I have the verdict from the man himself. Due to the fact that he is busy, he asked me to relay this.

As long as I RP finishing up the technology, I can have the Neurons.


"Liar!"

"Prove it!"

Allow me.


http://www2.filehost.to/files/2006-10-04_01/024125_hey_hey_hey!.jpg


EDIT: Wow, thats a small screenshot... damn it! Let me mess around with it for a few..

EDIT2: Fixed! :D

I lodge complaint with all the participants in Earth V. Earth V is current and modern technology. A prototype that is projected to work past 2010 has no place on Earth V and I am totally against its inclusion in our RPing world. ETC cannons should be around by that time- are those suddenly acceptable now?

TG6R, I'd like to know why you are changing the technology rules now, without any feedback requested from Earth V roleplayers, the vast majority of whom are against this new technology and, until now, actually only count Vineyard in the pro-tech category..... and he's the one getting the tech.

ALM, Kopparsberg, me, Sharina (someone who should officially have the same say as you, TG6R), United Earthlings, and Neuvo Rica (all of whom, when assembled, make up almost 2/3s of all extremely active Erath V RPers) all are completely against this decision. You are, with this ruling, alienating the base of RP, changing the basic Earth V rules, and totally disrespecting the consensus among Earth V roleplayers. I protest.

I lodge complaint with all the participants in Earth V. Earth V is current and modern technology. A prototype that is projected to work past 2010 has no place on Earth V and I am totally against its inclusion in our RPing world. ETC cannons should be around by that time- are those suddenly acceptable now?

TG6R, I'd like to know why you are changing the technology rules now, without any feedback requested from Earth V roleplayers, the vast majority of whom are against this new technology and, until now, actually only count Vineyard in the pro-tech category..... and he's the one getting the tech.

ALM, Kopparsberg, me, Sharina (someone who should officially have the same say as you, TG6R), United Earthlings, and Neuvo Rica (all of whom, when assembled, make up almost 2/3s of all extremely active Erath V RPers) all are completely against this decision. You are, with this ruling, alienating the base of RP, changing the basic Earth V rules, and totally disrespecting the consensus among Earth V roleplayers. I protest.

Yeah man...keep the modern tech.

You know what? This thing hasn't even flown yet- first flight scheduled for 2011. And you know what else? It's being designed by a number of nations that I know for a fact Vineyard has not RPed ever agreeing to work on this. So, not only is it totally untested (not even experimental as I had believed) but Vineyard should in no way be able to produce these.

That does not detract from the central argument- the players of Earth V want completely current tech. Nothing experimental or possible- if it's not in the field now, it's not acceptable.

I have this to say.

If Vineyard can research and develop 2011 tech, then everybody can research 2011 tech. Realism goes out of the window. Even I removed my Auoura planes after hearing arguements aganist them.

Same goes for UCAV's, submersible carriers, space elevators, and such. I don't have them even though I were allied to nations who had these tech's. I don't have any of these because I believe in the re-invented Earth V realism and that means 2006 tech, not 2010 or 2015 or 2020 tech.

I'm tired and don't have time to really think this out, but I'll reply:

I'm not changing any of the technology rules, and have no intentions of doing so. Nor do I suggest that Vineyard can have 2011 aircraft right now without RPing the research and development. But 2011 isn't that far away, and the Neuron isn't really that radical of a concept, right? Is there a problem with RPing the research of arming UAVs over some time?

I lodge complaint with all the participants in Earth V. Earth V is current and modern technology. A prototype that is projected to work past 2010 has no place on Earth V and I am totally against its inclusion in our RPing world. ETC cannons should be around by that time- are those suddenly acceptable now?

TG6R, I'd like to know why you are changing the technology rules now, without any feedback requested from Earth V roleplayers, the vast majority of whom are against this new technology and, until now, actually only count Vineyard in the pro-tech category..... and he's the one getting the tech.

ALM, Kopparsberg, me, Sharina (someone who should officially have the same say as you, TG6R), United Earthlings, and Neuvo Rica (all of whom, when assembled, make up almost 2/3s of all extremely active Erath V RPers) all are completely against this decision. You are, with this ruling, alienating the base of RP, changing the basic Earth V rules, and totally disrespecting the consensus among Earth V roleplayers. I protest.

I second the PROTEST! "TG6R, I'd like to know why you are changing the technology rules now". I would also like to know the answer to that question.

I think Samtonia said it best with this statement- "ETC cannons should be around by that time- are those suddenly acceptable now?"

If we allow one exception then we have to allow them all. Sharina gets his Auroras back and hell why don't we just use our NS militaries why were at it. It is after all FT and anything is possible in the future with NS. Wait, I thought this was Earth V and not your standard NS? I'm so confused they all look the same now. See, you go down that slipperily slope and their's no stopping it. So, in closing don't kill a unique Role-Play because someone wants to have some fancy toys that don't exist yet. Life is filled with disappoint, sorry Vineyard, but with all due respect. NO Neurons or any other piece of equipment that does not existed today. I'm willing to make an exception only if it had been designed in the past entered into at least some testing like the Montana Class Battleship did- their I said it, here's a cookie, cheer up.

The Neurons have not even left the prototype stage yet. Hell it hasn't even flown yet. "Did some more reading and edit-their isn't even a protype yet of the Neuron." and I'm quoting "Indeed, Saab's February 9, 2006 release notes that Neuron will be a demonstrator measuring 10m long by 12m wide and weighing in at 5 tons.". In other words its nothing more then a prop.

I have this to say.

If Vineyard can research and develop 2011 tech, then everybody can research 2011 tech. Realism goes out of the window. Even I removed my Auoura planes after hearing arguments against them.

Same goes for UCAV's, submersible carriers, space elevators, and such. I don't have them even though I were allied to nations who had these tech's. I don't have any of these because I believe in the re-invented Earth V realism and that means 2006 tech, not 2010 or 2015 or 2020 tech

Agree with you 100%. It looks like Sharina you'll be getting back your Auouras and when you do I'm sorry to say that I'll be leaving Earth V. A Unique Role Play would have died and replaced with the standard NS. That will be a sad day indeed. :(

OOC: TG6R - Check Telegrams!

I second the PROTEST! "TG6R, I'd like to know why you are changing the technology rules now". I would also like to know the answer to that question.

I think Samtonia said it best with this statement- "ETC cannons should be around by that time- are those suddenly acceptable now?"

If we allow one exception then we have to allow them all. Sharina gets his Auroras back and hell why don't we just use our NS militaries why were at it. It is after all FT and anything is possible in the future with NS. Wait, I thought this was Earth V and not your standard NS? I'm so confused they all look the same now. See, you go down that slipperily slope and their's no stopping it. So, in closing don't kill a unique Role-Play because someone wants to have some fancy toys that don't exist yet. Life is filled with disappoint, sorry Vineyard, but with all due respect. NO Neurons or any other piece of equipment that does not existed today. I'm willing to make an exception only if it had been designed in the past entered into at least some testing like the Montana Class Battleship did- their I said it, here's a cookie, cheer up.

The Neurons have not even left the prototype stage yet. Hell it hasn't even flown yet. "Did some more reading and edit-their isn't even a protype yet of the Neuron." and I'm quoting "Indeed, Saab's February 9, 2006 release notes that Neuron will be a demonstrator measuring 10m long by 12m wide and weighing in at 5 tons.". In other words its nothing more then a prop.



Agree with you 100%. It looks like Sharina you'll be getting back your Auouras and when you do I'm sorry to say that I'll be leaving Earth V. A Unique Role Play would have died and replaced with the standard NS. That will be a sad day indeed. :(

Actually, I don't want to have them after hearing how unfeasible they are. I only used that example to counter Vineyard's Neuron stuff. Besides, I gave up quite a bit of old Earth V tech (even though by rights I should have had them) for the sake of realism.

The majority of players do not want beyond-2006 tech in this RP, otherwise it'll become just another NS.

Vineyard *CAN* have his Neurons, but only when the RL year is 2011 under the current tech rules.

im back. sorry about being in "in communicado" for a bit. promise i will be more consistent from now on.:)

Ah, this is Pyscho. Sorry, NS doesn't like me atm.

Actually, I don't want to have them after hearing how unfeasible they are. I only used that example to counter Vineyard's Neuron stuff. Besides, I gave up quite a bit of old Earth V tech (even though by rights I should have had them) for the sake of realism.

The majority of players do not want beyond-2006 tech in this RP, otherwise it'll become just another NS.

Vineyard *CAN* have his Neurons, but only when the RL year is 2011 under the current tech rules.

I support this idea.

Sorry for my recent absence. NS has been messing up recently.

Fine. I wont use my Neurons. Consider them a top-secret project under development EXCLUSIVLY by the Empire.

But do note that the Nurons will free up a lot of man power, allowing to add on even more Eurofighters.. Just a heads up before someone complains.

Sorry for my recent absence. NS has been messing up recently.

Fine. I wont use my Neurons. Consider them a top-secret project under development EXCLUSIVLY by the Empire.

But do note that the Nurons will free up a lot of man power, allowing to add on even more Eurofighters.. Just a heads up before someone complains.

OOC:

Remember, your manpower won't be freed up until 2010 or 2011 when these Neurons enter full production.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=501393

a reminder to all to post new and old threads here!!! it's a lot easier than hitting search on Jolt [honestly...].

OOC:

Remember, your manpower won't be freed up until 2010 or 2011 when these Neurons enter full production.

They wont be freed up...?

Im not talking about researchers. Im talking about remote controllers, maitnence personnel, commanders, etc... fighting men.


Oh, and I took a breif look at your armored fighting vehicules, and the M1A3 Tank does not exist IRL (In Real Life).

This has piqued my interest as to what else your military may command, so I will spare a few moments over the next week to look up your military.

Hmm, I was thinking, how is Earth V's patent right laws set up? Just some mild curiosity to see how more than enough nations seem to have Eurofighters.

Hmm, I was thinking, how is Earth V's patent right laws set up? Just some mild curiosity to see how more than enough nations seem to have Eurofighters.
Eurofighter is a German limited liability company, which means I own the rights, but grant permission for allies (such as Vineyard) to manufacture them.

Eurofighter is a German limited liability company, which means I own the rights, but grant permission for allies (such as Vineyard) to manufacture them.

Well the Eurofighter was made by the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company EADS N.V. (EADS) is a large European aerospace corporation, formed by the merger on July 10, 2000 of Aérospatiale-Matra of France, Construcciones Aeronáuticas SA (CASA) of Spain, and DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (DASA) of Germany.

So the Eurofighter is a French project too. So the Eurofighter would need a go ahead from France, Germany and Spain to be give the ok to buy and use the Eurofighter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EADS

Eurofighter is a German limited liability company, which means I own the rights, but grant permission for allies (such as Vineyard) to manufacture them.

Well the Eurofighter was made by the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company EADS N.V. (EADS) is a large European aerospace corporation, formed by the merger on July 10, 2000 of Aérospatiale-Matra of France, Construcciones Aeronáuticas SA (CASA) of Spain, and DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (DASA) of Germany.

So the Eurofighter is a French project too. So the Eurofighter would need a go ahead from France, Germany and Spain to be give the ok to buy and use the Eurofighter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EADS

Yeah, actually I was asking because I read that article Wiki had on it. Even though DaimlerChrysler helped I was wondering where did the other countries go. Since making your own super-sonic jet plane domestically is pretty hard to do, except for Sweden's Rafale (sp?) there is no European, single country, projects out there.

They wont be freed up...?

Im not talking about researchers. Im talking about remote controllers, maitnence personnel, commanders, etc... fighting men.


Oh, and I took a breif look at your armored fighting vehicules, and the M1A3 Tank does not exist IRL (In Real Life).

This has piqued my interest as to what else your military may command, so I will spare a few moments over the next week to look up your military.

I have provided a link to the M1A3 tank, and it incorporates all real life technologies. No sci-fi stuff or 2010, 2015, or 2020 stuff either.

Sharina: Any objections to my makeshift weapon systems?

Well the Eurofighter was made by the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company EADS N.V. (EADS) is a large European aerospace corporation, formed by the merger on July 10, 2000 of Aérospatiale-Matra of France, Construcciones Aeronáuticas SA (CASA) of Spain, and DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (DASA) of Germany.

So the Eurofighter is a French project too. So the Eurofighter would need a go ahead from France, Germany and Spain to be give the ok to buy and use the Eurofighter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EADS
Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH (English: Eurofighter Fighter aircraft GmbH) is a multinational company that co-ordinates the design, production and upgrade of the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Founded in 1986, based and registered in Germany, the company is made up of the major aerospace companies of the four Eurofighter partner nations.

Alenia Aeronautica 21% (Italy)
BAE Systems 33% (United Kingdom)
EADS (formerly CASA and DASA) 46% (Germany and Spain)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_GmbH

Sharina: Any objections to my makeshift weapon systems?

As long as they don't use 2010 tech or stuff, or huge cannons being set up in just 1 day, then there shouldn't be too many problems.

I've realized that my military declarations is seriously out-of-date, as it's still pretty the status of my forces since about before the Red Sea War broke out. I will try to update by tomorrow evening, once I get the time to review those old posts and purchases...

I've realized that my military declarations is seriously out-of-date, as it's still pretty the status of my forces since about before the Red Sea War broke out. I will try to update by tomorrow evening, once I get the time to review those old posts and purchases...

Have fun, I'm still working on mine. I decided to give it a rest and get back to the RP's and devote just a little time to the other Factbook I have. The main one for my nation here on Earth V. I've already added a few things in and I changed the format some.

Since making your own super-sonic jet plane domestically is pretty hard to do, except for Sweden's Rafale (sp?) there is no European, single country, projects out there.
I think you're meaning the Swedish JAS-39 Gripen?

Have fun, I'm still working on mine. I decided to give it a rest and get back to the RP's and devote just a little time to the other Factbook I have. The main one for my nation here on Earth V. I've already added a few things in and I changed the format some.

Same, I've been working on it for about 4 days now. Updating and reviewing. Currently I am working on the number of Active Troops, which is the same since I started Earth V, among other things.

Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH (English: Eurofighter Fighter aircraft GmbH) is a multinational company that co-ordinates the design, production and upgrade of the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Founded in 1986, based and registered in Germany, the company is made up of the major aerospace companies of the four Eurofighter partner nations.

Alenia Aeronautica 21% (Italy)
BAE Systems 33% (United Kingdom)
EADS (formerly CASA and DASA) 46% (Germany and Spain)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_GmbH

The EADS is a German, Spainish and French company that was formed on July 10, 2000. Which is made up of these companies: Aérospatiale-Matra of France, Construcciones Aeronáuticas SA (CASA) of Spain, and DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (DASA) of Germany.

So the Eurofighter is a French project too. Just because we don't use them right now doesn't mean that we will not order some or make some myself.

The EADS is a German, Spainish and French company that was formed on July 10, 2000. Which is made up of these companies: Aérospatiale-Matra of France, Construcciones Aeronáuticas SA (CASA) of Spain, and DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (DASA) of Germany.

So the Eurofighter is a French project too. Just because we don't use them right now doesn't mean that we will not order some or make some myself.

France pulled out of the project during the planning phases to build the Rafale.

The EADS is a German, Spainish and French company that was formed on July 10, 2000. Which is made up of these companies: Aérospatiale-Matra of France, Construcciones Aeronáuticas SA (CASA) of Spain, and DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (DASA) of Germany.

So the Eurofighter is a French project too. Just because we don't use them right now doesn't mean that we will not order some or make some myself.

I was France in another rp, and I know for certain that France opted out of the race to build the Typhoon [FYI, Eurofighter is the conglomerate, not the plane]. France decided to use another plane because it was built completely in France, and thus its construction would not be subject to the whims of a foreign country's industry [I can't remember the name of the plane though...]

I was France in another rp, and I know for certain that France opted out of the race to build the Typhoon [FYI, Eurofighter is the conglomerate, not the plane]. France decided to use another plane because it was built completely in France, and thus its construction would not be subject to the whims of a foreign country's industry [I can't remember the name of the plane though...]
Dassault Rafale?

I think you're meaning the Swedish JAS-39 Gripen?

Ooops, yeah, sorry, got in mixed up.

Thanks for clearing everything up-

Dassault Rafale?

The guy posted it right before I posted mine... so yeah...

the point being that France does not build the Typhoon...

I was France in another rp, and I know for certain that France opted out of the race to build the Typhoon [FYI, Eurofighter is the conglomerate, not the plane]. France decided to use another plane because it was built completely in France, and thus its construction would not be subject to the whims of a foreign country's industry [I can't remember the name of the plane though...]

Actually the main reason the French persued the Rafale was simple really. They wanted a new modern carrier capable fighter. In 1984 France reiterated its requirement for a carrier capable version and demanded a leading role. The UK, Germany and Italy opted out and established a new EFA programme. The following year France officially withdrew from the project to pursue its own ACX project, what was to become the Dassault Rafale.

Alif Laam Miim is correct Military Command. France does not produce the Eurofighter atleast in our world. However, you could buy production rights or some aircraft off from the other nations that do. Hell, I could lease you a few for cheap. I bought 300 from Germany and the production rights to produce them in the United Netherlands and I've also got a factory up and running producing them in Spain.

However, as of today in the real world the Eurofighter is produced in the following places by the following companies. This is directly from the company website.

1. Eurofighter GT001=EADS Military Aircraft, Manching, Germany
2. Eurofighter Typhoon IT001=Alenia Aeronautica, Caselle, Italy
3. Typhoon BT001=BAE SYSTEMS, Warton, UK
4. Eurofighter ST001=EADS Military Aircraft, Getafe, Spain

And heres the website I got it from. A good read all about the aircraft. Link (http://www.eurofighter.com/)

Would it be alright for me to consider the remaining Sistani forces in Iran to be fighting amongst each other? It's been almost a year and a half (Since Operatiom Thunderstrike) and even the most fanatical leaders loyal to their goverment would begin to think of themselves by then.

Heres the scenario:
I invade (again, heh) and attack the area around Tehran. Would it be wrong for me to consider the forces their not willing to assist each other?

Would it be alright for me to consider the remaining Sistani forces in Iran to be fighting amongst each other? It's been almost a year and a half (Since Operatiom Thunderstrike) and even the most fanatical leaders loyal to their goverment would begin to think of themselves by then.

Heres the scenario:
I invade (again, heh) and attack the area around Tehran. Would it be wrong for me to consider the forces their not willing to assist each other?

I think it would be a bit cheap, to be honest. They're fanatics- I took over 50,000 casualties fighting my way throguh the mountains near Tehran and I think you should get the same if not greater resistance when you try to attack their capital. So to say they would dissolve into infighting- well, no. I disagree.

Ok. I see where you are going. In my invasion of the Northwest I took less then 12,000 casualties. Mostly because the region is Azeri dominated and that the military forces there weren't the cream of the Sistani Crop.

Heres the scenario:
I invade (again, heh) and attack the area around Tehran. Would it be wrong for me to consider the forces their not willing to assist each other?

I wouldn't say that it's right, but I wouldn't say that it's wrong. I've rped fighting against fanatics for the entire trip - even in Asherton. Albeit, they're fanatics running extremely short on supply, but you know, they are still packing a big punch, and I wouldn't doubt that they give you as much a hard time as they did all of the others. I'd be especially wary about attacking Tehran too, since that would be the site of their most intense resistance, fanatic or not. Infighting might be possible as well, however, but here's what I'd say in the end about it all - always use in good moderation. If it's excessively difficult, you're too stupid - if it's excessively easy, it borders on godmod or plain ignorance. So try to keep between the godmod and the stupidity, and you ought to be fine. And again, you have allies - ask for help if you need it. I know I've asked for help on more than one occasion when fighting Sistani remnants.

My last post for the night - wish me luck!!!

I have two issues I'd like to bring up.

First issue:

I would like to know how Vineyard is able to field 20,000 Eurofighters. The Eurofighters apparently entered production in 2003, giving Vineyard 3 years to produce 20,000 of the latest aircraft. Compare this to my F-22 Raptors. I only have 2,000 of these fighters even though they entered production in late 2005.

Remember, Sharina has most of the American heavy industry (West Coast, New England, Mexico, and Canada) and America is an industrial superpower. America can mass produce thousands of aircraft if needed. Compare this to Vineyard, based in Albania, Italy, and Congo. Granted, Vineyard has been around for a long time, but lets not forget the civil war + anarchy with the assasination of Lord Vineyard II a while ago (RL) and the whole war stuff between various Vineyardian generals vying for power. That would wreck Vineyard's economy and industry, and would take a bit to recover.

I can see Vineyard with 5,000 Eurofighters tops. Perhaps even as many as 10,000 if Vineyard was controlling Russia with its land and resources.

Second issue:

Vineyard is acting like his troop massing at Uelen is secret IC. Such a concentration of troops in a small outpost only 200 kilometers across the Bering Strait from the Alaskan / Sharinan city of Nome would be noticed in a hurry.

You can't hide 4,000 Eurofighters, 500 bombers, and thousands of infantry troops, tanks, APC's, etc. in such a small area. Thus, if Vineyard cries "GODMOD" when I act on his troop stuff, too bad. If the USSR concentrated such massive numbers of troops and equipment like this in RL, the US would stand up and take notice instantly.

Plus, there are some other severe complications for such a troop buildup that will be revealed IC'ly once I take action aganist Vineyard's troop buildup.

He made his bed in Uelen and he will lie in it.

----------------------------

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Chukchi_Sea_map.png/800px-

Location of Uelen.

I have two issues I'd like to bring up.

First issue:

I would like to know how Vineyard is able to field 20,000 Eurofighters. The Eurofighters apparently entered production in 2003, giving Vineyard 3 years to produce 20,000 of the latest aircraft. Compare this to my F-22 Raptors. I only have 2,000 of these fighters even though they entered production in late 2005.

Remember, Sharina has most of the American heavy industry (West Coast, New England, Mexico, and Canada) and America is an industrial superpower. America can mass produce thousands of aircraft if needed. Compare this to Vineyard, based in Albania, Italy, and Congo. Granted, Vineyard has been around for a long time, but lets not forget the civil war + anarchy with the assasination of Lord Vineyard II a while ago (RL) and the whole war stuff between various Vineyardian generals vying for power. That would wreck Vineyard's economy and industry, and would take a bit to recover.

I can see Vineyard with 5,000 Eurofighters tops. Perhaps even as many as 10,000 if Vineyard was controlling Russia with its land and resources.

Second issue:

Vineyard is acting like his troop massing at Uelen is secret IC. Such a concentration of troops in a small outpost only 200 kilometers across the Bering Strait from the Alaskan / Sharinan city of Nome would be noticed in a hurry.

You can't hide 4,000 Eurofighters, 500 bombers, and thousands of infantry troops, tanks, APC's, etc. in such a small area. Thus, if Vineyard cries "GODMOD" when I act on his troop stuff, too bad. If the USSR concentrated such massive numbers of troops and equipment like this in RL, the US would stand up and take notice instantly.

Plus, there are some other severe complications for such a troop buildup that will be revealed IC'ly once I take action aganist Vineyard's troop buildup.

He made his bed in Uelen and he will lie in it.

----------------------------

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Chukchi_Sea_map.png/800px-

Location of Uelen.

First issue, I agree with you Sharina. 20,000 Eurofighters is very much excessive even if he bought some from other countries. I agree with the 5,000 tops mark. Another point is their even enough air force bases to hold 20,000 Eurofighters? He would need a hell of a lot of them.

This brings me to my next point. Vineyard did you just assign a nice large random number to your equipment? Or did you actually try to figure out where you would base it and how you would support it? You stated you have 10,000 V-22 Osprey's in operation. That seems like overkill to me. It would take you years to build that many, The first of four LRIP (low-rate initial production) MV-22 models completed Operation / Evaluation in August 2000. Following an air crash in December 2000, a number of upgrades have been implemented including redesign of hydraulics and wiring in the nacelles and improved flight control software. A two-year flight test program began in May 2002 and a second OP/EVAL phase began in March 2005. USAF CV-22 resumed flight testing in September 2002. The first CV-22 was delivered to the USAF in October 2005.

A further 11 LRIP aircraft (nine MV-22 and two CV-22) were ordered in May 2003, 11 (eight MV-22 and three CV-22) in February 2004 and 11 (nine MV-22 and two CV-22) in January 2005.

The V-22 was approved for full-rate production in September 2005. Initial operating capability is planned for 2007 for the MV-22 and 2009 for the CV-22. 360 MV-22 (to replace CH-46 Sea Knight) and 50 CV-22 (to replace MH-53J Pave Low helicopters) are required.. Even if full rate production you'd only be able to produce 300-500 max considering the other massive military programs you got going.

Antonov An-225 in service 500, Considering the An-225 was mainly designed to transport Russia's version of the space shuttle and was only in limited production your not going to have 500. Hell, even the smaller An-124 there is only " The An-124 entered service in 1986 and over 55 aircraft have been built. The Russian Army operates 28 An-124 aircraft." While the smaller C-5 Galaxy is only "The Lockheed Martin C-5B Galaxy strategic transport aircraft first entered service with the US Air Force in 1986. The USAF has 126 C-5A/B aircraft in service, but is retiring a number of the C-5As." A link about the An-225 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN-225)

Ilyushin Il-78- actually its called the IL-76 Candid. And to my knowledge there is not tanker version of it. I'm willing to accept you have 500 in service. That still seems a little high to me but, acceptable considering a total of 500 having entered service in all countries. A link about the aircraft (http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/il76/)

Beriev A-50 (logistics), actually no the A-50 is not a transport aircraft but a airborne early warning and control aircraft developed from the llyushin Il-76MD military transport aircraft. Sorry, no 1,500 in service their. Try less then a hundred. "The A-50 entered service with the Russian Air Force in 1984, and is thought to have 16 aircraft in service. The latest version, the A-50U was shown in 1995." Early warning aircraft are expensive to build and very time consuming. A link about the aircraft (http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/a50/)

LPD San Giorgio Class Landing Platform Dock, sorry but no 50. You'll be able to have no more then 12 in operation even if all were placed in a dry dock. Anything more and I'll consider it a GodMod. Furthermore, it just seems stupid to me while you would do that. Dry docks are were you construct and repair ships. Your only going to have so many dry docks. I'd say the max you would have is around 20 dry docks. About the same as me, and even I only got a total of 12 Rotterdam Class LPD’s.

Etna Class LSV Logistic Support Vessel (LOGISTICS)- see you did much better, 7 is a nice good number. I can see your military operating 7. The Etna Class and San Giorgio class have about the same dimensions.

Again, I'm not doing this to be mean its just I know my military equipment very well. So, if you got a problem with my military fact book bring it to my attention. All is fair in war.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can't hide 4,000 Eurofighters, 500 bombers, and thousands of infantry troops, tanks, APC's, etc. in such a small area. Thus, if Vineyard cries "GODMOD" when I act on his troop stuff, too bad. If the USSR concentrated such massive numbers of troops and equipment like this in RL, the US would stand up and take notice instantly.

Second Issue, I again agree completely. That many planes, tanks, ships and troops would stick out like a sore thumb. But, then again you have to ask yourself Sharina. Would I really be focusing on that part of the world. Remember as you stated, most of your satellites are focused on the Carribean and in Europe watching us. If they did a gradual buildup and camouflage the equipment. It could be entirely possible you wouldn't know what’s up till its to late. But, then again all that arriving at once- yeah that’s going to get noticed. Radio transmission, the relocation of so many forces from their main bases. Were all going to be wondering what’s up.

Not to nitpick - but I don't think anyone asked how a large force mobilizes to head for Uelen, when the little outpost doesn't possess a viable port, doesn't have any road and rail links, and pretty sits smack dap at the end of a barren tundra continent, which is either frozen under sheets of ice or damp and boggy to the melting mesh of ice and mud. I'd argue the other points, but I'm more concerned about how anyone can move this amount of troops to an insignificant strategic location - besides I'm fairly certain that that topic was already broached to a proper and fitting conclusion a while back.

On another note, more personally, can we have an update of all EV releant threads, because I know that there are far more than are currently set on the reference thread. Even if they're SIC threads [unless of course, they don't exist on jolt, in which case, don't bother with it...]...

Second Issue, I again agree completely. That many planes, tanks, ships and troops would stick out like a sore thumb. But, then again you have to ask yourself Sharina. Would I really be focusing on that part of the world. Remember as you stated, most of your satellites are focused on the Carribean and in Europe watching us. If they did a gradual buildup and camouflage the equipment. It could be entirely possible you wouldn't know what’s up till its to late. But, then again all that arriving at once- yeah that’s going to get noticed. Radio transmission, the relocation of so many forces from their main bases. Were all going to be wondering what’s up.

Actually, I posted that I moved troops into defensive fortifications in Alaska a couple RL weeks ago in preparation for a possible attack from Great Romeo (before he broke off alliances, I believe).

Besides, the Bering Strait was strategically important during the Cold War with the UFSR. The UFSR was originally going to invade Alaska via the Bering Straits should the "old school" Earth V cold war turn hot. And now Russia is under new leadership that isn't exactly on friendly or allied terms with Sharina, so Sharina is still mindful of an invasion of Alaska. If Great Romeo was a good ally (like Warta Endor or FOAM members) then Sharinan attention on a possible invasion route via Alaska would be significantly reduced than otherwise.

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EDIT:

I say, we let Vineyard squander his troops and equipment in Uelen. After all, nations *DO* make colossal mistakes in RL history. Then this should be a lesson to Vineyard to research terrain and venues of attack before actually committing to one.

Ok, a few things.

The SIC postings about Uelen were ment to conceal it from nations that have no way of knowing that they are there. The 3 nations with satilites, including yourself, can easily find out as to what I have on the ground.

First off, I have 20,000 Eurofighters. Not all of them are in active service, they are typically stored away to be used as replacement craft for any losses taken. And yes, I do have that many. My nation has been in existance for a long time, and just because only certain numbers exist IRL, it does NOT mean that I cannot build more. That was directed not only to your shallow quipps on my fighters, but my bomber/transport numbers as well. THey exist due to the longitivity of my nation, and the internal resources and econemy of my nation. If I really have to spell out how my nation works again...

Also your prior 'fortification of alaska' is a godmod. Where is your proof? It would take quite some to construct able fortifications. lets see some evidence.


Will post more later, I have but a minute to type this.