NationStates Jolt Archive

Sharina:

I agree with everything you just said.

But I still don't understand how CIA World Factbook figures are accurate for NS nations who developed differently.
That's why I propose just using the population and adjusting your NS stats to match.

Two major advisories are in effect, both supported by me:

South East Asia: Issued by Warta Endorian military command.
Immediate areas near Iran in the Middle East (Saudi, Iraq, Kuwait, et cetera): My suggestion due to Sistan.

I just had an idea for maximum limit on population.

Europe nations = 150% of the CIA factbook populations (space is running out in Europe)

Asian nations* = 100% of CIA factbook population (lots of farm and space issues, and cannot support any massive surges in population)

Oceania nations** = 150% of the CIA factbook populations (space is at a premium on the island nations)

Africa nations = 300% of the CIA factbook populations (a lot of area to expand in)

American nations = 200% of the CIA factbook populations (still some area to expand in, like Mid-West or Canada or Brazil)

----------------------------------------

* = Russia, Mongolia, and the "-stans" nations still have enormous area to expand in, so these nations have a 300% population cap similiar to African nations. Tiny nations like Bhutan and Nepal have a 200% population cap as they still are underdeveloped and have plenty of space to house double their RL populations.

** = Indonesia and Japan are considered Asian nations, as Japan is already at the breaking point of population and Indonesia already has a large population and approaching their limit in terms of space (for cities and farmland).

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Hows this for a solution?

I just had an idea for maximum limit on population.

Europe nations = 150% of the CIA factbook populations (space is running out in Europe)

Asian nations* = 100% of CIA factbook population (lots of farm and space issues, and cannot support any massive surges in population)

Oceania nations** = 150% of the CIA factbook populations (space is at a premium on the island nations)

Africa nations = 300% of the CIA factbook populations (a lot of area to expand in)

American nations = 200% of the CIA factbook populations (still some area to expand in, like Mid-West or Canada)

----------------------------------------

* = Russia, Mongolia, and the "-stans" nations still have enormous area to expand in, so these nations have a 300% population cap similiar to African nations. Tiny nations like Bhutan and Nepal have a 200% population cap as they still are underdeveloped and have plenty of space to house double their RL populations.

** = Indonesia and Japan are considered Asian nations, as Japan is already at the breaking point of population and Indonesia already has a large population and approaching their limit in terms of space (for cities and farmland).

---------------------------

Hows this for a solution?

Sounds good. :)

If Saudi Arabia will be off limits I would like to request both Yemen and Oman because combined they still have far fewer natural resources and population centers than Saudi Arabia does.

In addition to my population cap idea, I'd like to add the following idea...

Earth V players can determine their own population, BUT cannot exceed the population caps I put forth. This should allow flexibility like if an Earth V player wants to RP mega-city nation like TGSR, or someone who wants to RP a farmland nation with few people, or what have you.

Just to let you know, I got military action planned for Yemen shortly :P. We're also not very friendly, with the Divine Revolution going on and all...

I just had an idea for maximum limit on population.

Europe nations = 150% of the CIA factbook populations (space is running out in Europe)
I don't think there's enough space in Europe even for that. Not if anyone is going to keep agriculture viable, at least.

Asian nations* = 100% of CIA factbook population (lots of farm and space issues, and cannot support any massive surges in population) This is probably the most iffy. There is still a huge amount of space in Asia, and Asia has the best climate and terrain for growing large quantities of food of any place on Earth. Imagine if the nations with huge populations in Asia used modern agricultural technology rather than the same stuff they've been using for thousands of years.

Oceania nations** = 150% of the CIA factbook populations (space is at a premium on the island nations)
Fish farming and offshore hydroponics mean that the Oceanic nations can expand quite a bit, but the space for habitation is severely limited even without being reduced by agricultural needs.

Africa nations = 300% of the CIA factbook populations (a lot of area to expand in)
Africa is fairly overpopulated as it is, but I suppose that with people that aren't as ass backwards as the RL occupants, there is probably an unbelievable amount of possible expansion.

American nations = 200% of the CIA factbook populations (still some area to expand in, like Mid-West or Canada or Brazil)
Pretty much, though the possible expansion is probably even greater than 200%. Even the most hostile places in temperate North America are completely habitable, and South America is almost entirely undeveloped.

Is Afghanistan available, or does someone already have 'future military plans in the area'?

In addition to my population cap idea, I'd like to add the following idea...

Earth V players can determine their own population, BUT cannot exceed the population caps I put forth. This should allow flexibility like if an Earth V player wants to RP mega-city nation like TGSR, or someone who wants to RP a farmland nation with few people, or what have you.
I would argue against letting people choose their populations so easily. It would lead to people going up to the cap just to help their budgets. Population changes should really only be initiated by RPing events that would affect population, such as any of the Four Horsemen or a long, gradual and RPed attempt at increasing population. Even if RPed, the effects shouldn't be noticeable for at least a generation.

Can I base my stats on RL stats for the countries, because using my own nation...is a bit too complicated and my economy really is horrible.

Ok, I've had a lot of tolerance with "reservations" - I don't get it why people say "I'm going to claim that later" to keep it free from occupation. Quite frankly, I could have grabbed the entire Middle East for myself, because I felt like expanding into an Islamic superstate. But I chose to leave some territory for other peoples, because it makes an interesting RP experience. Sistan - you've claimed Iran and UAE - you have not claimed Saudi Arabia or any other state in the region. Asherton, ditto to you - you've only claimed the Horn of Africa region, not Yemen. Guys [and gals], it doesn't make any sense to open this to new people if they can't get the countries that they want and that are unclaimed by anyone [that is, no one has claimed them]. I would have brought this up earlier with DP and USB going ballistic, but this is out of hand right now; too many people are making too many reservations for "future holdings" - if it's future, you can steal it later, but not before you've actually taken it.

I hope TG6R agrees, because it seems to cut out the new folk, of which most of you guys are anyway [only TG6R, Sharina, Kopparbergs, and Warta Endor can claim longevity on this RP].

I would argue against letting people choose their populations so easily. It would lead to people going up to the cap just to help their budgets. Population changes should really only be initiated by RPing events that would affect population, such as any of the Four Horsemen or a long, gradual and RPed attempt at increasing population. Even if RPed, the effects shouldn't be noticeable for at least a generation.

Please do share your ideas for events that would change the population.

However, I think some players may not be of the "OMG! I want huge population so I can wank my way to victory!" persuasion. What of the players who actually want to RP non-boosted populations? Or those who even want to RP lower than RL population (like Japan or India or what have you)?

Ok, I've had a lot of tolerance with "reservations" - I don't get it why people say "I'm going to claim that later" to keep it free from occupation. Quite frankly, I could have grabbed the entire Middle East for myself, because I felt like expanding into an Islamic superstate. But I chose to leave some territory for other peoples, because it makes an interesting RP experience. Sistan - you've claimed Iran and UAE - you have not claimed Saudi Arabia or any other state in the region. Asherton, ditto to you - you've only claimed the Horn of Africa region, not Yemen. Guys [and gals], it doesn't make any sense to open this to new people if they can't get the countries that they want and that are unclaimed by anyone [that is, no one has claimed them]. I would have brought this up earlier with DP and USB going ballistic, but this is out of hand right now; too many people are making too many reservations for "future holdings" - if it's future, you can steal it later, but not before you've actually taken it.

I hope TG6R agrees, because it seems to cut out the new folk, of which most of you guys are anyway [only TG6R, Sharina, Kopparbergs, and Warta Endor can claim longevity on this RP].

Thank you.

I do want to try to accomodate people's plans, but this is getting rather absrud indeed. I would like to hear what the policy on these advance holdings are going to be because Saudi Arabia IS my first choice.

I'm using Egyptian statistics at the moment... I haven't decided it completely...

Ok, I've had a lot of tolerance with "reservations" - I don't get it why people say "I'm going to claim that later" to keep it free from occupation. Quite frankly, I could have grabbed the entire Middle East for myself, because I felt like expanding into an Islamic superstate. But I chose to leave some territory for other peoples, because it makes an interesting RP experience. Sistan - you've claimed Iran and UAE - you have not claimed Saudi Arabia or any other state in the region. Asherton, ditto to you - you've only claimed the Horn of Africa region, not Yemen. Guys [and gals], it doesn't make any sense to open this to new people if they can't get the countries that they want and that are unclaimed by anyone [that is, no one has claimed them]. I would have brought this up earlier with DP and USB going ballistic, but this is out of hand right now; too many people are making too many reservations for "future holdings" - if it's future, you can steal it later, but not before you've actually taken it.

I hope TG6R agrees, because it seems to cut out the new folk, of which most of you guys are anyway [only TG6R, Sharina, Kopparbergs, and Warta Endor can claim longevity on this RP].

I'm inclined to support Alif's proposal.

However, there could be exceptions though. Some exceptions include Lesotho and Swaziland, or the current claims that fully surround / enclose a small unclaimed nation (suppose someone claimed Pennslyvania, Ohio, Virginia, and Tenneesse, then says "I will invade West Virginia"... or someone claiming Maryland but saying "I will invade Washington D.C. soon").

Those exceptions will be handled by me or TGSR on a case by case basis.

Arabicia']Thank you.

I do want to try to accomodate people's plans, but this is getting rather absrud indeed. I would like to hear what the policy on these advance holdings are going to be because Saudi Arabia IS my first choice.

I'm inclined to grant Arabicia's claim, and have the other guy fight him for it if he really wants it that badly.

Ok, I've had a lot of tolerance with "reservations" - I don't get it why people say "I'm going to claim that later" to keep it free from occupation. Quite frankly, I could have grabbed the entire Middle East for myself, because I felt like expanding into an Islamic superstate. But I chose to leave some territory for other peoples, because it makes an interesting RP experience. Sistan - you've claimed Iran and UAE - you have not claimed Saudi Arabia or any other state in the region. Asherton, ditto to you - you've only claimed the Horn of Africa region, not Yemen. Guys [and gals], it doesn't make any sense to open this to new people if they can't get the countries that they want and that are unclaimed by anyone [that is, no one has claimed them]. I would have brought this up earlier with DP and USB going ballistic, but this is out of hand right now; too many people are making too many reservations for "future holdings" - if it's future, you can steal it later, but not before you've actually taken it.

I hope TG6R agrees, because it seems to cut out the new folk, of which most of you guys are anyway [only TG6R, Sharina, Kopparbergs, and Warta Endor can claim longevity on this RP].

I'm not claiming anything. However, like Warta Endor, I am warning people that they settle the affected areas at their own risk. If they want to claim Saudi, that's fine, but they'll most likely be facing conflict fairly soon if they do.

I understand that countries like Sistan want to expand, and I DO respect that. In reality though, the map is not anywhere near being full. There are several ways to expand and I would greatly appreciate it if perhaps these larger countries would try to compromise and perhaps acquire others lands.

I concur with Sharina. if these R.l population rules applied to this earth it could mean the aquistion of land is based on R.P. merit as opposed to overwhelming odds. I.e. A Nation in Luxembourg with 2.2 billion decides to overun france with a Nation residing there with a population of only 100 million e.t.c.

My population would be about 50 million approximatly. including Lesotho and Swaziland. (which im still working on the r.p. never fear) :p

Please do share your ideas for events that would change the population.

However, I think some players may not be of the "OMG! I want huge population so I can wank my way to victory!" persuasion. What of the players who actually want to RP non-boosted populations? Or those who even want to RP lower than RL population (like Japan or India or what have you)?
Well, the horsemen (War, famine, pestilence, and death), a golden age, perhaps a breeding program, a cultural change that encourages or discourages procreation, and fun things like that.

OOOOOKKKKAYYY...

let's revise the list:


DP = Australia [confirmed]

USB = New Zealand ; New Caledonia ; Norfolk Island ; Fiji ; Vanuata ; Tonga ; Cook Islands ; French Polynesia ; Marshall Islands ; American Samoa ; Kiribati; Solomon Islands; the Phillipines ; Taiwan [edit out Korea for the moment per IM]

DP = New Caledonia ; New Zealand ; Fiji [semi-unconfirmed - annex...see above]

P&H = Lesotho ; Swaziland [confirmed per Sharina - annex]

Maldorians = Afghanistan [unconfirmed - annex ; BTW he attempted to claim on the map, despite my explicit warning and proviso regarding claims on that thread...]

Whittlesfield = Ireland ; Northern Ireland ; Isle of Man [unconfirmed - annex ; the only one I appreciate actually]

Sharina = Hawaii [confirmed because Sharina is Sharina...unless TG6R needs to confirm that...]

Until I see otherwise by the members on this list [or a disapproval by anyone], this list stands...


I may or may not be on tommorow. But Its me that owns New Zealand, New Calidonia and Fiji not brink TG6R already said that.

Really, we should go with RL population. Laos isn't that empty. :p

Dweladelfia prime has a huge advantage de facto in getting the land, since he started his RP earlier. Basically it's going to be a civil war like Sharina suggested, except Dweladelfia prime has the major advantage. However, his claim is technically illegitimate in terms of traditional international law.[/list]



he said I own them not you. I said you could have everything else which is generis on my part. So please stop arguing with the mod.

I am willing to feel out a compromise on the Saudi Arabia claim...maybe I claim the western portion of Saudi Arabia and the eastern section remains open?

Arabicia']I understand that countries like Sistan want to expand, and I DO respect that. In reality though, the map is not anywhere near being full. There are several ways to expand and I would greatly appreciate it if perhaps these larger countries would try to compromise and perhaps acquire others lands.
If this were a perfect world, that would be fine. However, this isn't, and curbing our territorial ambitions simply to be nice to a new player doesn't make sense IC.

Arabicia']I am willing to feel out a compromise on the Saudi Arabia claim...maybe I claim the western portion of Saudi Arabia and the eastern section remains open?
Perhaps.

he said I own them not you. I said you could have everything else which is generis on my part. So please stop arguing with the mod.
You conveniently forgot the first part of his post.

De jure, United States of Brink gets the disputed islands, per the rules (that for some reason are not in the first post of this recruitment thread... see the old recruiting thread if you want to read the conduct standards for Earth V recruiting threads).
That means that USB in fact gets the islands by default. You have to fight him for it.

Sistan-I'm willing to take from Riyadh and west. That would leave you with a large amount of oil and several large ports. I would almost maintain population centers necesary for a fledging nation.

Sharina-Would a claim compromise like this be alright?

he said I own them not you. I said you could have everything else which is generis on my part. So please stop arguing with the mod.

Okay... let's look in the dictionary

Dweladelfia prime has a huge advantage de facto in getting the land, since he started his RP earlier. Basically it's going to be a civil war like Sharina suggested, except Dweladelfia prime has the major advantage. However, his claim is technically illegitimate in terms of traditional international law.

You highlighted this text right here. According to my definition, illegitimate means not lawful, not right, not permissible, not authorized. You didn't check the definition before you highlighted it, but that's alright - unless you wish to cut your own claim...

As far as the other stuff goes, I gave the claim to no one - except under the contention pile. The reason is because TG6R said "it's going to be a civil war" so neither country can legitimately claim the territory as of yet. The "huge advantage de facto" refers to your standing nation and its military presence - whereas Brink must forge a new milittary force, you have a standing military [although honestly, you have't posted anything of it yet in the military stats thread...]. No where does TG6R authorize you or Brink to own the territory, hence I shall not render it - until TG6R says otherwise. Besides, it's probably better because either you or he will be arguing to me why it should be you who has it, in which case I'd probably ask Sistan to take it, just to put it to an end... [j/k on that part, but seriously, stop whining about it...]

If this were a perfect world, that would be fine. However, this isn't, and curbing our territorial ambitions simply to be nice to a new player doesn't make sense IC.

well guess what, it isn't IC; it's ooc...

if you want to steal it from him later, go ahead and hope he doesn't have any help coming his way.

You conveniently forgot the first part of his post.
And misunderstood the second. By his, I meant Dweladelfia prime (Dweladelfia prime's claim is technically against international convention, but it's most likely going to be sucessful). Standard English conventon is that pronouns stand for the last mentioned person.

I would like to claim South Carolina, Oklahoma and Sahkailin (dunno if thats correct spelling, its the island north of Japan and south of russia, long and skinny) my population is 204 million.

People, enough already!

1. Dweladelfia can battle Brink for the lands that Dweladelfia wants.

2. Sistan hasn't really claimed Saudi Arabia (he said he might invade that), therefore that is OOC.

3. Arabicia claims Saudi Arabia, which means he should have it in its entirety. Then if Sistan wants to expand into Saudi Arabia, he will have to fight Arabicia for it.

4. In the real world, there's no "OOC" discussion between nations, like President Bush telling the Shah of Iran.. "Oh, I'm going to invade Iraq. So you can't claim Iraq because I will be invading it." Doesn't work that way.

A nation of my size wouldn't be able to put up much of a fight at this point realistically. So I will only claim a western section of Saudi Arabia, from Riyadh and west in the hopes that we can develop peacefully. I just want to get this claim confirmed so I can start some RPs and get along with it.

Arabicia']A nation of my size wouldn't be able to put up much of a fight at this point realistically. So I will only claim a western section of Saudi Arabia, from Riyadh and west in the hopes that we can develop peacefully. I just want to get this claim confirmed so I can start some RPs and get along with it.
Well, my invasion won't happen immediately, so your claim would come first. However, my annexation was going to be limited to mostly the territory around the Gulf, so the compromise is fairly acceptable. Unfortunately, it wouldn't make much sense IC for you to limit your claim to exclude the areas I intend to take, so perhaps you should just claim the entire nation initially, and then we can settle the issue with a short war and quick armistice followed by a treaty to seal the deal.

Arabicia']A nation of my size wouldn't be able to put up much of a fight at this point realistically. So I will only claim a western section of Saudi Arabia, from Riyadh and west in the hopes that we can develop peacefully. I just want to get this claim confirmed so I can start some RPs and get along with it.

Good point.

However, a suggestion if I may? You could always get allies to help you even the playing field.

-----------------------------

I read Great Romeo's war RP, and he has sent 100 million soldiers into Bosnia / Yugoslavia. That's practically around 1/5 of the entire population of RL Europe.

People, enough already!

1. Dweladelfia can battle Brink for the lands that Dweladelfia wants.

2. Sistan hasn't really claimed Saudi Arabia (he said he might invade that), therefore that is OOC.

3. Arabicia claims Saudi Arabia, which means he should have it in its entirety. Then if Sistan wants to expand into Saudi Arabia, he will have to fight Arabicia for it.

4. In the real world, there's no "OOC" discussion between nations, like President Bush telling the Shah of Iran.. "Oh, I'm going to invade Iraq. So you can't claim Iraq because I will be invading it." Doesn't work that way.
Confirmed.

But President Bush does do stuff like that. :) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/17/AR2006071700402_pf.html

"what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit, and it's over"

Good point.

However, a suggestion if I may? You could always get allies to help you even the playing field.

Believe me, getting some allies would be one of the first things I do as a nation.


Well, my invasion won't happen immediately, so your claim would come first. However, my annexation was going to be limited to mostly the territory around the Gulf, so the compromise is fairly acceptable. Unfortunately, it wouldn't make much sense IC for you to limit your claim to exclude the areas I intend to take, so perhaps you should just claim the entire nation initially, and then we can settle the issue with a short war and quick armistice followed by a treaty to seal the deal.

Though it would make no sense in character. This thread seems very OOC, so I don't think I need to go through the bloodshed instead of just peacefully entering the world.

Arabicia']Believe me, getting some allies would be one of the first things I do as a nation.




Though it would make no sense in character. This thread seems very OOC, so I don't think I need to go through the bloodshed instead of just peacefully entering the world.
Bloodshed is fun. Besides, some of the best alliances were forged after two nations bloodied each other's noses. The US and Japan and the US and Germany, for example.

I read Great Romeo's war RP, and he has sent 100 million soldiers into Bosnia / Yugoslavia. That's practically around 1/5 of the entire population of RL Europe.
In all fairness, I think it does comply with Mauiwowee's military requirements based on defense budgets, as crazy as it is. ;)

Bloodshed is fun. Besides, some of the best alliances were forged after two nations bloodied each other's noses. The US and Japan and the US and Germany, for example.

Okay, you sold me on Saudi Arabia with the bloodshed. I'd like to claim Saudi Arabia.

I read Great Romeo's war RP, and he has sent 100 million soldiers into Bosnia / Yugoslavia. That's practically around 1/5 of the entire population of RL Europe.
Um, that's billion. 100 billion. As in 1*10^11.

Um, that's billion. 100 billion. As in 1*10^11.
LOL! That's more than ten times the number of people there are on this earth!

That's one bad mathematical error. I think we all need to launch an emergency investigation into Great Romeo's military stats. They clearly have some problems.

Um, that's billion. 100 billion. As in 1*10^11.

Whoah, what the hell?

Can I please have a reply to my claim on Saudi Arabia?

Arabicia']Can I please have a reply to my claim on Saudi Arabia?
Confirmed.

Confirmed.


Thank you!

Alright I’m glad to hear everything has been cleared up, I look forward to this civil war which I feel is better suited for the title “revolution”. Anyway before that begins may I ask for a neutral war moderator [agreed on by both me and DP of course]. I only ask because I hate seeing wars turned into spam fests over something silly and worse yet people not known when they have lost and won.

I’d like to nominate Alif Laam Miim.

Also DP I’d like to start a new threat in order to keep things neat, there is a few things I’d like to discuss OOC.

Also here is a list of my claims updated [cut down]

Philippines
Taiwan
New Zealand [disputed]

Alright I’m glad to hear everything has been cleared up, I look forward to this civil war which I feel is better suited for the title “revolution”. Anyway before that begins may I ask for a neutral war moderator [agreed on by both me and DP of course]. I only ask because I hate seeing wars turned into spam fests over something silly and worse yet people not known when they have lost and won.

I’d like to nominate Alif Laam Miim.

Also DP I’d like to start a new threat in order to keep things neat, there is a few things I’d like to discuss OOC.

Also here is a list of my claims updated [cut down]

Philippines
Taiwan
New Zealand [disputed]

I sure hope you mean "thread." ;)

Lets showcase my system, using Great Romeo as an example.

Great Romeo claims Serbia, Romania, and Costa Rica.

The RL population of the following...

Serbia: 9.5 million
Romania: 22.5 million
Costa Rica: 4 million

Factor in my "boosted population" rates.

Serbia: 9.5 million x 150% (Europe rate) = 14.25 million
Romania: 22.5 million x 150% (Europe rate) = 33.75 million
Costa Rica: 4 million x 200% (America rate) = 8 million

Great Romeo's total Earth V population: 56 million

------------------------------

Now to figure out the money Great Romeo has.

Take Great Romeo's Earth V population of 56 million, and divide it by his NS nation population of 4,930 million (4.9 billion).

56 / 4930 = 0.011

Multiply Great Romeo's NSEconomy budgets as follows...

Administration: V$3,444,878,682,952.20
Social Welfare: V$0.00
Healthcare: V$0.00
Education: V$9,186,343,154,539.20
Religion & Spirituality: V$0.00
Defense: V$34,448,786,829,522.01
Law & Order: V$44,783,422,878,378.62
Commerce: V$6,889,757,365,904.40
Public Transport: V$6,889,757,365,904.40
The Environment: V$9,186,343,154,539.20
Social Equality: V$0.00

Multiply every one of these by 0.011 to get his Earth V budgets. It is as follows...

Administration: V$37,895,000,000 (approx. $38 billion)
Social Welfare: V$0.00
Healthcare: V$0.00
Education: V$101,046,000,000 (approximately $101 billion)
Religion & Spirituality: V$0.00
Defense: V$378,939,000,000 (approximately $379 billion)
Law & Order: V$492,613,000,000 (approximately $493 billion)
Commerce: V$75,779,000,000 (approximately $76 billion)
Public Transport: V$75,779,000,000 (approximately $76 billion)
The Environment: V$101,046,000,000 (approximately $101 billion)
Social Equality: V$0.00

Now Great Romeo can use his $379 billion defense budget for his military and stuff, as well as use his Earth V budget for whatever he wishes to RP with.

---------------------------------

Hopefully this example gives you guys a better idea of how my system would work, and how much more realistic it seems compared to the "OMG! 7 billion people living in Hawaii" stuff.

I have an idea, though. Some nations in RL have a lot of resources, while others don't. For example, the Middle East is rich in oil, but poor in food production and metal production (steel, iron, aluminum, etc.). Conversely, nations like Germany and the states of Pennslyvania and Michigan and Canada are rich in iron, tungsten, and coal, but poor in oil.

We can use our "Commerce" part of our budgets to buy the resources we need. Like the Hawaii nation needs to buy a lot of metal to build an Hawaii Navy and Air Force, so Hawaii would use its "Commerce" budget to buy the needed metal from its allies or trading partners.

--------------------------------

I think thats pretty much about it for the "realism" rules. I don't think we need to add any more than this. What do you think?

I think that boosted populations shouldn't take effect until the events leading to the boosted pops are RPed and a sufficient time has passed. Also, the commerce section in the budget is for government subsidies.

Real commerce has to be done with trading.

Also: Canada has lots of oil.

By the way, I took a look at the military thread, and I can't seem to find the rules describing how to divide up the military, logistics, and everything. I think TGSR either forgot to add the rules themselves in, or accidentally deleted them from the thread or something.

I think that boosted populations shouldn't take effect until the events leading to the boosted pops are RPed and a sufficient time has passed. Also, the commerce section in the budget is for government subsidies.

Real commerce has to be done with trading.

Also: Canada has lots of oil.

Eastern Canada doesn't.

BTW, it does make sense to use your commerce budget to buy resources that your nation may not have (or have a shortage of) like metal, uranium, food, oil, etc. from other nations. Thats trade at its most basic- buy resources you don't have, and sell surplus resources you don't need.

Alright I’m glad to hear everything has been cleared up, I look forward to this civil war which I feel is better suited for the title “revolution”. Anyway before that begins may I ask for a neutral war moderator [agreed on by both me and DP of course]. I only ask because I hate seeing wars turned into spam fests over something silly and worse yet people not known when they have lost and won.

I’d like to nominate Alif Laam Miim.

Also DP I’d like to start a new threat in order to keep things neat, there is a few things I’d like to discuss OOC.

Also here is a list of my claims updated [cut down]

Philippines
Taiwan
New Zealand [disputed]


A. The fact is, that a revoultion would not stand up. so I'm sorry to say you'll proboloy lose. So I'm willing to cut a deal with you were you'll get somthing out of it. I will let you have fiji and New calidonia if you leave New Zealand alone.

B. We arnt going to start a new thread. The thread I'm using is fine.

C. I dont want Alif Laam Miim to be the judge. I would like one of the Mods to be the judge.

D. FYI marines are landing in New Zealand.

E. Sorry for the mix up about TG6Rs post.

With this new population/defense budget rules, I'm seeing some problems...

It looks like this for me:

Kopparbergs pop: 1.821 millions
Israel RL pop, 100%: 6,3 millions
Israel pop factor: 100 %
My game factor: 0,003
My NS defense budget: 3.508.281 millions
Calculated with factor: 12.238 millions

This means that I can keep 0,35% of my defense, and throw away 99,65% of it...

And if we look at one of my neighbors, i.e. Alif Laam Miim:

Alif Laam Miim NS pop: 263 millions
RL pop, 300%: 254 millions (even without part of Sudan)
Game factor: 0,967
NS defense budget: 342.060 millions
Calculated with factor: 330.827 millions

Before we had this rule, I had a defense budget of 3.508 billions and ALM had 0.342 billions, I was about ten times bigger (as my nation really is in NS).
After the new rule I have a defense budget of 0.012 billions and ALM has 0.330 billions. Now he's about 27 times bigger and really could kick ass with the Israelis... Is that realistic?

And for every day my NS population grows. That means my game factor sinks. If my NS nation was the double size of today (with the same defense budget), I'd be even smaller with this new rule because of the factor. With 3.6 billion NS people I would only have 6 millions defense budget...

Talk about rewriting the map and the rules...

If you want to have figures from RL-earth, maybe you must consider the RL GDP and maybe the RL defense. RL Israel has an enormous military capability in RL, and a GPD per capita way bigger than Egypt ($24 323 vs. $3847).

Really, your sad population and budget is your own fault. You chose to take a tiny sliver of land in the middle of a desert, and your budget problems stem from poor management of your NS nation. Converted for population, your GDP is only $175,231,632,000. Israel's RL GDP is $190,000,000,000. Now, Israel's RL defense budget is in the neighborhood of 7.4 billion, with 2.2 billion of that donated by the US. Your converted military budget is just over 12 billion.

You chose the land, you should deal with it. I suggest working to gain powerful allies and fast, or you'll end up like Israel would have if the US hadn't bailed it out.

I selcted to take only one nation becaue I want to have many neighbors.

I used to have a lot of land here in Earth V earlier (Algeria, Israel, Malta, Cyprus, Argentina, Ecuador, and more), but this time i thought that I want to have more players in this earth instead. I thouth of claiming Israel, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Jordan (I could have done that), but you know my reasons to not do so. But the rules has changed now... That's not my fault...

We have to go to Rl population. This is a crapy Idea. Its just gonna make this earth fall like the rest of the earths in the past. I dont know about you but I'm using my NS population, thank you.

I selcted to take only one nation becaue I want to have many neighbors.

I used to have a lot of land here in Earth V earlier (Algeria, Israel, Malta, Cyprus, Argentina, Ecuador, and more), but this time i thought that I want to have more players in this earth instead. I thouth of claiming Israel, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Jordan (I could have done that), but you know my reasons to not do so. But the rules has changed now... That's not my fault...

Okay, I think there is a discreptancy here, because apparently, a new nation with a population of 5mil would have an uber advantage [since many nations don't more than 5 mil citizens]. Assuming that a nation has 1bil citizens [like China and soon to be India], the conversion factor would be 50000%. I was thinking about using per capita, but I figured it was the same exact thing, just differently...

Alright I’m glad to hear everything has been cleared up, I look forward to this civil war which I feel is better suited for the title “revolution”. Anyway before that begins may I ask for a neutral war moderator [agreed on by both me and DP of course]. I only ask because I hate seeing wars turned into spam fests over something silly and worse yet people not known when they have lost and won.

I’d like to nominate Alif Laam Miim.

I'm so bashful, but seriously, I don't want to critique people's war business. I am a war kind of guy, but I think I get enough %$#% dealing with this map business - someone else should be a war mod, because I do agree that war shouldn't become a heated spam fest.

I personally nominate Kopparbergs [not because he's Israel or because for some crazy reason he joined my region...].

Also DP I’d like to start a new threat in order to keep things neat, there is a few things I’d like to discuss OOC.

Also here is a list of my claims updated [cut down]

Philippines
Taiwan
New Zealand [disputed]

Ok, two things - you've cut your entire claims by a whole bunch, and I don't know what TG6R confirmed. SOOOO... please review the map again and tell me just exactly what you claim, because that means cutting out a lot of pacific islands [which isn't hard for the map part, but it's gonna be a headache with the claims list...]

And do please begin the threats in a different thread, because we've got enough here :rolleyes:

I'm so bashful, but seriously, I don't want to critique people's war business. I am a war kind of guy, but I think I get enough %$#% dealing with this map business - someone else should be a war mod, because I do agree that war shouldn't become a heated spam fest.

I personally nominate Kopparbergs [not because he's Israel or because for some crazy reason he joined my region...].



Ok, two things - you've cut your entire claims by a whole bunch, and I don't know what TG6R confirmed. SOOOO... please review the map again and tell me just exactly what you claim, because that means cutting out a lot of pacific islands [which isn't hard for the map part, but it's gonna be a headache with the claims list...]

And do please begin the threats in a different thread, because we've got enough here :rolleyes:


I agree with you I want eather. TG6R or Sharina being the war mod. Or theres no war and I take them. Also Ive let him have everything except New Calidonia, New Zealand, and Fiji. Everything else he claimed is his.

can I get confirmation to my claim of South Carolina, Oklahoma and Sahkailin?

Or theres no war and I take them.
That isn't for you to decide. Nor is it for you to decide that you get your NS population. You need to take a step back and start playing by the rules stated by Sharina and TGSR.

That isn't for you to decide. Nor is it for you to decide that you get your NS population. You need to take a step back and start playing by the rules stated by Sharina and TGSR.

So far no rule has been stated by TG6R saying we have to use RL pop. And none of the mods have said anything about war mods for the conflict. So Brink has no say eather. But it makes more sence to have one of the mods from Earthy V to be the war mod than a member.

I am quite frustrated. DP you arrogance and ignorance are incredible. I would like to start a new thread because I find it hard to believe that you’ve created a rather large military, mobilized it, and invaded three different islands in 1 day. You also have posted no history [I understand I have not either but I’m going to be fighting with a rebellion and therefore no real military] so you can randomly create units. I also wouldn’t be so sure of victory, I will make this war a bloody affair if need be.

@ Laam/Claims: If aloud I’ll keep those islands on the map [I understand there is a bunch but they are very small most with populations of less than 50,000] However DP can have Fiji and New Cal, I’m still claiming New Zealand and thus creating a war.

Also just let me know which mod will…moderate our war. I only ask so that person can keep spamming down, settle disputed issues [like winning and losing of a battle], etc.

DP I wish you would use a cool head and we can make a very fun RP.

Also I like the RL population - makes it more real.

I am quite frustrated. DP you arrogance and ignorance are incredible. I would like to start a new thread because I find it hard to believe that you’ve created a rather large military, mobilized it, and invaded three different islands in 1 day. You also have posted no history [I understand I have not either but I’m going to be fighting with a rebellion and therefore no real military] so you can randomly create units. I also wouldn’t be so sure of victory, I will make this war a bloody affair if need be.

@ Laam/Claims: If aloud I’ll keep those islands on the map [I understand there is a bunch but they are very small most with populations of less than 50,000] However DP can have Fiji and New Cal, I’m still claiming New Zealand and thus creating a war.

Also just let me know which mod will…moderate our war. I only ask so that person can keep spamming down, settle disputed issues [like winning and losing of a battle], etc.

DP I wish you would use a cool head and we can make a very fun RP.

Also I like the RL population - makes it more real.


I'm keeping a cool head. I'm just saying I gave yopu a chance to start your rebelion, but you didnt take it, so now you have to start with thousands of marines on your heals. I belive your the one with a hot head now. I'm just stateing my demands. I gave you a deal saying you could have two Islands but you wont take it. You could have been nicer about this and I would have let you have New Zealand, but you chose not to be nice. I'm trying to be nice belive me. Your not making it any easyer.

Also I like the RL population - makes it more real.


It may make it more real but it makes it unbalenced.

There is many a question to be answered if you will let me create a new thread I can keep this organized.

There is many a question to be answered if you will let me create a new thread I can keep this organized.

I guess would could. I do have a question, you are rping resistance right?

post a link here when you create a new thread, so TG6R and Sharina can add their spiel, because I'm am sorrowfully sick that this is STILL going on...

Oh Btw, I would like to claim Burma, and sri lanka. If thats possable. Thanks

post a link here when you create a new thread, so TG6R and Sharina can add their spiel, because I'm am sorrowfully sick that this is STILL going on...

Hey We came to an agreement. Will let this be resolved in rp.

Street Fightin' Man (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11491404#post11491404)

Oh Btw, I would like to claim Burma, and sri lanka. If thats possable. Thanks

I'm hoping that TG6R utterly rejects that, after all that I have said about Sistan and Asherton...

So are we having RL pops? If so can we only use RL weapons and such.

I'm hoping that TG6R utterly rejects that, after all that I have said about Sistan and Asherton...

What I might consider droping my claim on New Zealand if I get these. Theres no reason for him to reject that. I was t0old I'm alowed to have 4.5 Nations. Theres nothing wrong with me claiming these.

It may make it more real but it makes it unbalenced.

To quote Sharina:

"OMG! I want huge population so I can wank my way to victory!"

To quote Sharina:

lol good point.

What I might consider droping my claim on New Zealand if I get these. Theres no reason for him to reject that. I was t0old I'm alowed to have 4.5 Nations. Theres nothing wrong with me claiming these.

Read what I said about Sistan and Asherton - this is nothing to do with New Zealand or whatever is going on down there.

Read what I said about Sistan and Asherton - this is nothing to do with New Zealand or whatever is going on down there.

What did you say about them? If your in support of RL pop. them your rejecting people from getting more land so they can have a reasonable pop.

Hey would the mods mind if I moved from Australia to brazil? I'll let brink have all that and I'll claim brazil, Peru and Bolivia. If I cant claim them all I'll just take brazil still. But I think it would resolve the conflict with me and brink. THanks

I'll be back on later.

What did you say about them? If your in support of RL pop. them your rejecting people from getting more land so they can have a reasonable pop.

Golly, I am not going to tell you, because I wrote it quite visibly. It should be somewhere in page 20 if you want to find it.

Hey would the mods mind if I moved from Australia to brazil? I'll let brink have all that and I'll claim brazil, Peru and Bolivia. If I cant claim them all I'll just take brazil still. But I think it would resolve the conflict with me and brink. THanks

I'll be back on later.

Despite your noble intentions, you've given me one more headache, because now I have to reedit the map and claims...

So are we having RL pops? If so can we only use RL weapons and such.

I think it was a suggestion only from Sharina. There has not been made a decision yet.

Lexington SC: Confirmed.

----------------------------------------------

Dweladelfia prime and Brinkman Isle: Please list your wanted initial claims, including anything disputed. I'm very confused about what you both want, but need to confirm that the claimed lands follows the claiming limits.

Alif: I'll edit for you.

TG6R:

Ok. Heres what Im saying. I'll let Brink have everything that were arguing about: New Zealand, New calidonia, Fiji, and Aust. IF I can move to Brazil, Peru and Bolivia.

Alif: I'll edit for you.

TG6R:

Ok. Heres what Im saying. I'll let Brink have everything that were arguing about: New Zealand, New calidonia, Fiji, and Aust. IF I can move to Brazil, Peru and Bolivia.

It's not the fact the map - it's the fact that I have to reenter all of the nations claimed and moved them into the unclaimed pile, and then move the claimed unclaimed into the claims... but I digress, I was upset and quitet honestly, I'm glad you both came to some consensus about what to do in the end, and Australia isn't too hard to put back into the list...

Now, I need TG6R to give the green light.

It's not the fact the map - it's the fact that I have to reenter all of the nations claimed and moved them into the unclaimed pile, and then move the claimed unclaimed into the claims... but I digress, I was upset and quitet honestly, I'm glad you both came to some consensus about what to do in the end, and Australia isn't too hard to put back into the list...

Now, I need TG6R to give the green light.

Sorry about that, just got tired of arguing.

It's not the fact the map - it's the fact that I have to reenter all of the nations claimed and moved them into the unclaimed pile, and then move the claimed unclaimed into the claims... but I digress, I was upset and quitet honestly, I'm glad you both came to some consensus about what to do in the end, and Australia isn't too hard to put back into the list...

Now, I need TG6R to give the green light.
http://www.dfacommunications.com/images/DFA_images/GREEN%20LIGHT.jpg

Confirmed.

SWEET!!!!!

Brink its you lucky day. Hello south america. So are we using RL pops or NS pops? And on the same note are we using only RL weapons?

http://www.dfacommunications.com/images/DFA_images/GREEN%20LIGHT.jpg

hmm, I guess I could ask for some lemon creme pie while I'm at it...

update coming soon [THANK GOD]

SWEET!!!!!

Brink its you lucky day. Hello south america. So are we using RL pops or NS pops? And on the same note are we using only RL weapons?
As long as the NS populations make sense for the amount of land claimed, I'll allow the use of them in RPs until implementation of the real population plan is discussed (or if Sharina posts saying he just wants everybody to redo their budget and military immediately).

But that could be very shortly. Very, very shortly. As in a couple of hours short.

When it is implemented, NS equipment will still be usable, but so will real-life stuff.

hmm, I guess I could ask for some lemon creme pie while I'm at it...

update coming soon [THANK GOD]
http://www.landolakes.com/images/recipes/8517_l.jpg

As long as the NS populations make sense for the amount of land claimed, I'll allow the use of them in RPs until implementation of the real population plan is discussed (or if Sharina posts saying he just wants everybody to redo their budget and military immediately).

But that could be very shortly. Very, very shortly. As in a couple of hours short.

When it is implemented, NS equipment will still be usable, but so will real-life stuff.

So we are going with the RL pop. Crud I gotta redo my military....AGAIN.....

So we are going with the RL pop. Crud I gotta redo my military....AGAIN.....
I just redid my military a couple hours before Sharina suggested the rule. :( Now I need to redo it again.

I just redid my military a couple hours before Sharina suggested the rule. :( Now I need to redo it again.

Yep this sucs. Well off to the drawing board.

Oh I'd also like to claim easter Island if thats no problom.

Ok Than i get New Zealand ; Fiji and New Cal were never disputed by me so they are back into the pot.

Expect a nation post later tonight.

I think it would be a good idea to only use RL Tech. It would make more sense. It would also help because people wouldn’t argue about capabilities and would save us from godmoding and all that.

I think it would be a good idea to only use RL Tech. It would make more sense. It would also help because people wouldn’t argue about capabilities and would save us from godmoding and all that.
You've clearly never visited any military forums. I dare you to go onto 4chan's weapons board and ask for opinions on the best MBT or 5th Generation Fighter.

You've clearly never visited any military forums. I dare you to go onto 4chan's weapons board and ask for opinions on the best MBT or 5th Generation Fighter.

Why?

updated as of the last green light and lemon creme pie

can i , Pakistan, claim, Tajikistan for the Pakistani republic?

can i , Pakistan, claim, Tajikistan for the Pakistani republic?

wait a moment...

]i claimed Afghanistan

]Maldorians: Confirmed, but on probation.
Original posts = 165 and 231 You've yet to RP an annexation of Afghanistan, and furthermore, TG6R put you on "probation" whatever that means...

the other way didn't work, as I realized...

wait a moment...





click on the "quoted by" to go to the original post. You've yet to RP an annexation of Afghanistan, and furthermore, TG6R put you on "probation" whatever that means...

Means he cant claim anymore.

Means he cant claim anymore.
No, it means that the acceptance is conditional. Should the agreed to conditions not be met, the claim will not be accepted.

No, it means that the acceptance is conditional. Should the agreed to conditions not be met, the claim will not be accepted.

Explain the post before this about my Idea.

Why?
*cough*

It would also help because people wouldn’t argue about capabilities and would save us from godmoding and all that.

*cough*

I still dont get it. Does this mean you agree with me? I think I'm just tired idk.

Lets showcase my system...
I like Sharina's idea.

(about reservations)
I dont like them...Israel didnt reserve south lebanon before invading it

Confirmed.

But President Bush does do stuff like that. :) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/17/AR2006071700402_pf.html

"what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit, and it's over"
"Bush : No, Diet Coke, Diet Coke."
LMAO

I'll get something up by Saturday.

As long as the NS populations make sense for the amount of land claimed, I'll allow the use of them in RPs until implementation of the real population plan is discussed (or if Sharina posts saying he just wants everybody to redo their budget and military immediately).

IF we're about to go for real populations, then I think it should be real to 100 %. Not 300 % for Africa, 100 % for Europe and such. Either as we have today, or 100% by the CIA factbook.

That's my 2 cents...

And I don't think we should have war-moderators. We already got two of them, and their job is to approve such things.

Maldorians: Make up your mind! You already tried to claim three times, and I don't know which one to count as "the one."

No, it means that the acceptance is conditional. Should the agreed to conditions not be met, the claim will not be accepted.
Exactly. You always seem to interpret everything I say right. ;)

Maldorians: Make up your mind! You already tried to claim three times, and I don't know which one to count as "the one."


Exactly. You always seem to interpret everything I say right. ;)
Reading comprehension has always been one of my greatest strengths. :P

I want to claim:


Algeria (which already is marked w/ Kopparbergs in the listing)
Tunisia

I want to claim:


Algeria (which already is marked w/ Kopparbergs in the listing)
Tunisia

Confirmed.

Okay, I need to clear up a few questions about the population rule. I was unable to login today because my entire town and neighoring towns had no electrical power ALL DAY. ;-x

Anyways, here goes....

1. My reasoning for using RL populations is to prevent NS-like wanking and "OMG! I have 7 billion people in Hawaii! I take over the world!", and Earth V is supposed to be the realism Earth. That means we need realism... we don't have enough farmland to feed 20 billion people in RL Earth as of 2006. What makes you think we could sustain 50 billion, much less 100 billion people on a RL Earth with the land available for farming and fishing?

2. Realistically, nations like Hawaii, Ghana, Cuba, etc. have small populations because of their land size or harsh terrain (desert, tundra, etc.). They have to buy the resources to build their military if they don't have the resources available within their nations (Cuba, Hawaii, Japan, etc. have very little natural resources, not enough to build "OMG! Uber-Fleets of d()()m!" or anything like that. They have to buy the resources to build them, and won't be able to have the manpower to man 1000 ships or stuff like that.

3. My reasoning for the boosted populations is that some NS nations may have or are developing differently than RL ones. For example, some nations may go the "Megacity" route with 30 million people living in a single city, or build arcologies (like the proposed Millennium Tower)... or warmonger nations might have lower population from bombing raids or loss of soldiers in WW-1 or WW-2 type of massive ground wars. Additionally, some nations may actively promote population growth like having 4 children per family or something (and have the land to spare for the population expansion).

4. Some continents have lots of spare population expansion room, like Russia, Americas, Africa, and Australia. Other nations have reached their limits in population expansion like Japan, the Pacific Islands (I gave them 150% potential as there does lie the possibility of arcologies on the islands, and some islands are entirely uninhabited), China + India (because they have reached their limit in food production without severe ecological damage- in RL, agriculture is starting to suffer due to pollution, dirty water, and eroding topsoil), and so on.

To clarify, the Middle East should have a 200% population cap, I didn't add that in. This 200% is possible if nations build desalination plants, do irrigation, and build more cities in the vast desert (supplied by food and water of course).

5. I may be convinced to allow extra population in Asia like China or India if the player demostrates clearly how he / she can increase living space *BUT* not at the expense of farmland (after all, you need farmland to feed your population. If I gave 300% population for Asia, India would have 3 billion, and China probably 4.5 billion, which is too much for the farmlands to support). If the player demostrates a good way and reason (preferably in RP) then I might be inclined to increase the population cap to maybe 125% or 150%.

6. Europe is at 150% because there's still some land left in Europe (like Scandaivia, Ukraine, Spain, etc.) and the expansion of cities like London (convert suburbs to apartment complexes) while the food supply of Europe can support at least a bit more population than RL.

-----------------------

Just stating my opinion and reasoning.

Population increases should really be on a case by case basis, and follow the current growth rates. Either way, it should take a generation at least for anything noticeable.

Population increases should really be on a case by case basis, and follow the current growth rates. Either way, it should take a generation at least for anything noticeable.

That brings up another important point in Earth V.

How do we handle time progression? Do we stay in 2006 forever (very unrealistic)? Or go by 1 Earth V year = 1 RL week? or something like that?

One to two weeks for a year seems fine for most things, but the passing of time should be scaled up or down for some things. We'll obviously need much slower time in the event of a war, and faster for large construction projects.

Can I get my easter Island Claim Confirmed?

To clarify, the Middle East should have a 200% population cap, I didn't add that in. This 200% is possible if nations build desalination plants, do irrigation, and build more cities in the vast desert (supplied by food and water of course).

dammit, you stole my ideas...

updating maps as soon as possible [all of this secondary claiming is realing starting to tempt me...]

Ok guys we need to get a good rp going. Have somthing flare up in the middle east.

That brings up another important point in Earth V.

How do we handle time progression? Do we stay in 2006 forever (very unrealistic)? Or go by 1 Earth V year = 1 RL week? or something like that?
We just don't mention years (or only mention them sparingly), and use whatever time progression is appropriate for the RP.

Does anybody really want to calculate the date every time he RPs?

We just don't mention years (or only mention them sparingly), and use whatever time progression is appropriate for the RP.

Does anybody really want to calculate the date every time he RPs?
Good, TG6R! Exactly my thought too!
If you make 1 RL week = 1 NS year, this is soon going to be FT...

we could have groundhog's day... :D

Can I get my easter Island Claim Confirmed?

Am I being ignored?

Am I being ignored?

I don't know... personally, I rather have the word than not, because someone else will see this and think that it's not available, but then look at the claims and wonder - didn't that guy claim it already? - so TG6R... what's the verdict?

Reading comprehension has always been one of my greatest strengths. :P

funny - it's been one of my worst weaknesses...

Ok guys we need to get a good rp going. Have somthing flare up in the middle east.

I agree that we need a good rp now. I'm eager to play!
But, I don't know, but this thing with population rules has put everything on hold until a decision is made. At least that's what I feel.

What do you say, mods?
Either you go for RL population (with or without Sharina's population boost for selected continents), or you continue with NS population. But I think we must make a decision very soon.

It seems to me that the most of the players are voting for Sharina's proposal, so that's fine with me too.

I personally support RL populations...

but depending on the time frame [2006 or 2016?], I would support a population boost, because people live and die... heck, we'd have a problem with war if people didn't die...or live...

Am I being ignored?
No. Just forgotten.

Confirmed.

I agree that we need a good rp now. I'm eager to play!
But, I don't know, but this thing with population rules has put everything on hold until a decision is made. At least that's what I feel.

What do you say, mods?
Either you go for RL population (with or without Sharina's population boost for selected continents), or you continue with NS population. But I think we must make a decision very soon.

It seems to me that the most of the players are voting for Sharina's proposal, so that's fine with me too.

I thought they said we were.

Hey guys I’ve got an idea for an rp. There are two small nations that I want to claim but don’t want just to claim them. Someone could rp a militant group in Paraguay fire rockets into my nation or creating trouble of some sort. Then I could rp my nation responding with military force. Who’s up for it?

I thought they said we were.
The last thing I saw TG6R write about this was in post 342 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11492046&postcount=342), where he wrote
As long as the NS populations make sense for the amount of land claimed, I'll allow the use of them in RPs until implementation of the real population plan is discussed (or if Sharina posts saying he just wants everybody to redo their budget and military immediately).

But that could be very shortly. Very, very shortly. As in a couple of hours short.

When it is implemented, NS equipment will still be usable, but so will real-life stuff.
So, it's not implemented yet, and I think that this vacuum between two rules is devastating to the rp's.

I suggest we go for the RL population according to Sharina's suggestion. Now, or at least very, very soon.

The sooner the better, because almost no rp's is going on right now, and it's no good to change the rules in the middle of a war (for example).

I decree that RL populations are to be used based off the CIA factbook.

HOWEVER, if nations believe they warrant or deserve higher populations (either "boosted" populations or NS population) they must present a good case WHY he / she should have it, and shows RP for it (like building megacities or securing food supplies or such) on a case by case basis.

I think this should resolve most of the population issues we have.

I decree that RL populations are to be used based off the CIA factbook.

HOWEVER, if nations believe they warrant or deserve higher populations (either "boosted" populations or NS population) they must present a good case WHY he / she should have it, and shows RP for it (like building megacities or securing food supplies or such) on a case by case basis.

I think this should resolve most of the population issues we have.
Can't get much more fair than that.

Im already using my RL pop.

I have a question regaurding populations...

My NS population is significantly smaller than my RL population, even before bonus. How does this effect me? My NS population is 8M and RL is 25M, so if I'm Saudi Arabia and in Africa does that mean my population is 75M due to 300% bonus?

And on another note, what aout economies? Do we take NS economies and fit them for our new populations?

I decree that RL populations are to be used based off the CIA factbook.
Sounds very fair to me.
Skip the boost and go strictly by the CIA book - with exceptions well RP'd AND confirmed by the mods. But I think that we should be very restrictive with these exceptions, otherwise we'll lose the reality again.

I'll prepare my figures for this. But we should wait for TG6R to give the famous green light again.

Another question:
What about the military? Should we calculate upon the defense budget in NS (with the factor based on RL pop and NS pop), or should we go strictly at, let's say maximum of 5 % of the RL pop?

Maybe 2,5 % at peace, 5 % at normal war time (including reserves) and a maximum of 10 % when you have been at war for a long time?

Sounds very fair to me.
Skip the boost and go strictly by the CIA book - with exceptions well RP'd AND confirmed by the mods. But I think that we should be very restrictive with these exceptions, otherwise we'll lose the reality again.

I'll prepare my figures for this. But we should wait for TG6R to give the famous green light again.

Another question:
What about the military? Should we calculate upon the defense budget in NS (with the factor based on RL pop and NS pop), or should we go strictly at, let's say maximum of 5 % of the RL pop?

Maybe 2,5 % at peace, 5 % at normal war time (including reserves) and a maximum of 10 % when you have been at war for a long time?


You cant tell people how big there military is as long as its resonable.

Arabicia']And on another note, what aout economies? Do we take NS economies and fit them for our new populations?
Yes.

my idea for economies is to use the per capita and relate it to the RL Population, which is based on Sharina's idea, but much simpler.

I'm using RL populations right now, but I do expect to see a population increase once I flood Qattara for a massive hydroelectric power and irrigation initiative...

Ok I need sothing cleared up.


Are we using only RL equipment?

And can we only buy it from people who own the coutntry that equipments from?

my idea for economies is to use the per capita and relate it to the RL Population, which is based on Sharina's idea, but much simpler.

I'm using RL populations right now, but I do expect to see a population increase once I flood Qattara for a massive hydroelectric power and irrigation initiative...
You could do that, but it would only give you the GDP, and you get the exact same result by just dividing your NS population by your territorial population and then dividing the budgets by the result.

Sharina already posted about how NS Economy is to be used with the populations.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11487631&postcount=301

------------------

We also have military requirements based on the newly designed defense budget. See Great Romeo's bottom part of his military declaration post for an example of a maxed-out military with the minimal amount of logistics allowed on Earth V.

Ok I need sothing cleared up.


Are we using only RL equipment?

And can we only buy it from people who own the coutntry that equipments from?

Can sombody answer my question? I need to work on my military if yes.

Can sombody answer my question? I need to work on my military if yes.
Yes: No. Unless Sharina says otherwise or someone else launches a proposal to change the rules.

Sounds very fair to me.
Skip the boost and go strictly by the CIA book - with exceptions well RP'd AND confirmed by the mods. But I think that we should be very restrictive with these exceptions, otherwise we'll lose the reality again.

I'll prepare my figures for this. But we should wait for TG6R to give the famous green light again.

Another question:
What about the military? Should we calculate upon the defense budget in NS (with the factor based on RL pop and NS pop), or should we go strictly at, let's say maximum of 5 % of the RL pop?

Maybe 2,5 % at peace, 5 % at normal war time (including reserves) and a maximum of 10 % when you have been at war for a long time?

http://www.dfacommunications.com/images/DFA_images/GREEN%20LIGHT.jpg

Yes: No. Unless Sharina says otherwise or someone else launches a proposal to change the rules.


I think I'll start a porposal.

My proposal is to only allow RL equipment on E5.

Reasons.

1. If E5s motto is First-Class Realism, Only allowing RL equipment would be more realistic

2. it would save any arguments during an rp about equipment capabilities.

I think I'll start a porposal.

My proposal is to only allow RL equipment on E5.

Reasons.

1. If E5s motto is First-Class Realism, Only allowing RL equipment would be more realistic

2. it would save any arguments during an rp about equipment capabilities.
I totally agree with you, Dweladelfia! Now that we have RL population, we should only have RL equipment. That's First class realism.

OOC: We never told a user that he/she can't use storefront bought equipment on Earth V that he/she bought before joining. That might change in the future, but it's just been assumed that it's part of the NS country's history (that it was developed in the country, even if it was actually bought).

Using US equipment is even more complicated than that, though. It's necessary to find what state the corporate headquarters is in (because the US is divided), not just that it's a US company.

Plus, TG6R has always owned General Electric and Airbus, relocating them to Germany.

As I referenced before,

ok annexation thread coming up watch this space. (BTW can someone help me with my military statistics im confused about the logistical ratio to infantryman e.t.c., Im also wondering where are some good storefronts? any help would be appreciated. thanks.:)
The only "storefronts" available now that you joined Earth V are buying from another nation, such as myself (if you want expensive stuff) or Great Romeo (if you want cheap Soviet crap). :)

However, letting anyone build anything is just stupid. If the real world worked that way, Iran wouldn't have such a hard time keeping her F-14s in the air because the US won't sell spare parts to her. Likewise, if I design an aircraft and sell a few to a nation only to have relations sour later, there would be no way for me to prevent them from simply manufacturing more on their own. You need to keep in mind that trade and arms embargoes are a very useful diplomatic tool. To let anyone produce anything, RL or not, would destroy those tools.

But again NS rules are you cant claim RL equipemnt designs and Companys. So really its the only way to go.

This isn't standard NS. This is Earth V. We don't deal with the general public, and thus our claims extend only towards Earth V. The 'rule' doesn't apply here.

You could do that, but it would only give you the GDP, and you get the exact same result by just dividing your NS population by your territorial population and then dividing the budgets by the result.

ehhh... I prefer pere capita, because I can get GDP and then determine the budgets by the percents given... I think it's simpler and it come to a similiar [if not the same] result. It's a technicality, so I doubt it matters much anyway.


On a note of personal preference, I don't think that it would be bad for individual nations to attempt to construct their own war materials. After all, this RP will advance [albeit and hopefully slowly...], so equipment will advance as well. The thing that I'd like to keep in mind is that some nations can build certain things while others can. Sharina probably has the best vantage in terms of military construction competency [in terms of RL industry], but someone like Nigeria wouldn't have the best industry to crank out MBTs or 5GEN fighters. That is, assuming that Nigeria hasn't RPed building up its industry and economy to accommodate such a grand scheme and that Sharina doesn't bankrupt its industry and somehow manages to turn a technocracy into a bummocracy. That's how I'd view it. In the meantime, we should use RL equipment [as I have already done with Egypt's military].

personal preference, I'd rather not go an buy tech and equipment that either isn't RL tech or within the scopes of EV. After all, can the USA purchase SD vessels from TG6R [if he has any at all...]? It doesn't make any sense that the nations that interact here can buy equipment and technology from nations that cannot interact here. To me, it's some minor [note the word minor] form of godmoding, because you could go to a cheap non-EV storefront and buy a whole bunch of weapons that aren't even in EV. And to add to the realism aspect, it's like technology popping out of the sky whenever we need it. Besides that, after we adjust our budgets, I'm not sure if many people could afford DMG's stuff in a grand scale anyway...

This isn't standard NS. This is Earth V. We don't deal with the general public, and thus our claims extend only towards Earth V. The 'rule' doesn't apply here.

Thats the same attitud we had at E2 and we almost got our thread locked. The fact is, as long as we are on the Ns board, we must abide by the NS rules. There is no "The rule dosnt aply here" in NS. That Attitude will get you banned, like hurahin.

There is a very simple way around that. (http://z6.invisionfree.com/Earth_V/index.php?)

How about not. This will kill us getting new memebers and most things offsite die quick.

How about not. This will kill us getting new memebers and most things offsite die quick.
Tell that to The Planet Mars (http://s4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php).

Thats the same attitud we had at E2 and we almost got our thread locked. The fact is, as long as we are on the Ns board, we must abide by the NS rules. There is no "The rule dosnt aply here" in NS. That Attitude will get you banned, like hurahin.

NOOOO

That's not why the mods came and broke into E2 - it was because Huahin deliberately challenged a mod, and after refusing to accept the judgment of a mod, opted to create another account and bypass his week-long forum ban. As far as I know, I've never seen any rule in this forum that says you can't use RL tech. AFter all, DMG sells AK-47s and a whole bunch of other RL equipment. I know many other storefronts do the same thing. Your argument is that we can't do it because of a rule, but I haven't seen or heard of any such rule, up until you mentioned it.

Tell that to The Planet Mars (http://s4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php).

While I'm not opposed to off-site forums, the creators just came off an off-site forum, since they were just about dying... I'm not certain if they'd like to go off-site again...

How about not. This will kill us getting new memebers and most things offsite die quick.
And 21c (http://www.atfreeforum.com/21c)...although we're kind of limited on players.

Im going with RL and using Sharina's boosts...175% for me though.

My economy is horrid though so Ill figur out some sort of thing maybe use (RL/my GDP) as a multiplier for my ecostats...

Thats the same attitud we had at E2 and we almost got our thread locked. The fact is, as long as we are on the Ns board, we must abide by the NS rules. There is no "The rule dosnt aply here" in NS. That Attitude will get you banned, like hurahin.
"Bad" RP, "wanks," or "godmodding" is not punishable per se:

"Godmoding, Godmodding, and Wanking: The general idea behind godmoding, as its name makes evident, is making yourself or your nation godlike in power and unable to die. It is commonly used by first-time roleplayers, and is frequently accompanied by Smilie Spam (see below). Under most circumstances, godmoddery is not a moderation offense unless it turns to spam. At that point, godmode n00b wars will often be locked or moved to the spam forum. Note that flaming in response to n00bish behavior is still forbidden."

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023

In other words, we can create our own RP rules, as long as it cannot be classified as another infraction (such as flameing).

NOOOO

That's not why the mods came and broke into E2 - it was because Huahin deliberately challenged a mod, and after refusing to accept the judgment of a mod, opted to create another account and bypass his week-long forum ban. As far as I know, I've never seen any rule in this forum that says you can't use RL tech. AFter all, DMG sells AK-47s and a whole bunch of other RL equipment. I know many other storefronts do the same thing. Your argument is that we can't do it because of a rule, but I haven't seen or heard of any such rule, up until you mentioned it.

That was the whole reason for the mod getting mad at huahin. And DMG dosnt say you cant buy it from anybody else you can only buy it from me. Thats what Huahin was trying to do. Claim designs of RL planes. THen the mod got involved. ANd he said this isnt your business "the rule dosnt aply to us"

"Bad" RP, "wanks," or "godmodding" is not punishable per se:

"Godmoding, Godmodding, and Wanking: The general idea behind godmoding, as its name makes evident, is making yourself or your nation godlike in power and unable to die. It is commonly used by first-time roleplayers, and is frequently accompanied by Smilie Spam (see below). Under most circumstances, godmoddery is not a moderation offense unless it turns to spam. At that point, godmode n00b wars will often be locked or moved to the spam forum. Note that flaming in response to n00bish behavior is still forbidden."

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023

In other words, we can create our own RP rules, as long as it cannot be classified as another infraction (such as flameing).

I can go ask a mod about it, right now.

"Bad" RP, "wanks," or "godmodding" is not punishable per se:

"Godmoding, Godmodding, and Wanking: The general idea behind godmoding, as its name makes evident, is making yourself or your nation godlike in power and unable to die. It is commonly used by first-time roleplayers, and is frequently accompanied by Smilie Spam (see below). Under most circumstances, godmoddery is not a moderation offense unless it turns to spam. At that point, godmode n00b wars will often be locked or moved to the spam forum. Note that flaming in response to n00bish behavior is still forbidden."

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023

In other words, we can create our own RP rules, as long as it cannot be classified as another infraction (such as flameing).
So much for the 'rule'. I propose that nations start out with the RL militaries of their nations, and then expand from there. All new equipment and/or spare parts for existing equipment has to be procured from the nation or nations that manufactured the equipment. In the case of US and Soviet equipment, the equipment can be procured from nations that control territory containing the assets of the company in question.

There's no point in letting someone grandfather NS storefront toys in via their history, since the history pf the nation has to be RPed for the most part and if the creator of the equipment never existed in Earth V, neither should the equipment in question.

So much for the 'rule'. I propose that nations start out with the RL militaries of their nations, and then expand from there. All new equipment and/or spare parts for existing equipment has to be procured from the nation or nations that manufactured the equipment. In the case of US and Soviet equipment, the equipment can be procured from nations that control territory containing the assets of the company in question.

There's no point in letting someone grandfather NS storefront toys in via their history, since the history pf the nation has to be RPed for the most part and if the creator of the equipment never existed in Earth V, neither should the equipment in question.

Thats a bad idea. Most countrys eather dont have a military or we dont know what they have for a military. I say we just let people use for there military what they want. As long as they dont go: 2,000,000 F-22s Pwnzors your ARMY111111111.

That was the whole reason for the mod getting mad at huahin. And DMG dosnt say you cant buy it from anybody else you can only buy it from me. Thats what Huahin was trying to do. Claim designs of RL planes. THen the mod got involved. ANd he said this isnt your business "the rule dosnt aply to us"

Okay, there's the problem - he tried to plagarize, and when a mod tried to intervene, he made an unrealistic claim. I doubt that the mod banned Huahin because he was trying to use RL stats, because almost everyone does [except for FT and otherwise weird folk...]

So much for the 'rule'. I propose that nations start out with the RL militaries of their nations, and then expand from there. All new equipment and/or spare parts for existing equipment has to be procured from the nation or nations that manufactured the equipment. In the case of US and Soviet equipment, the equipment can be procured from nations that control territory containing the assets of the company in question.

There's no point in letting someone grandfather NS storefront toys in via their history, since the history pf the nation has to be RPed for the most part and if the creator of the equipment never existed in Earth V, neither should the equipment in question.

Your opinion is shared with much respect, and I believe that this is the most realistic and "wise" choice.

I say we just let people use for there military what they want. As long as they dont go: 2,000,000 F-22s Pwnzors your ARMY111111111.

I also agree with that, although I hold reservations about it, precisely because of what you mention - besides, that would be uber-n00bish.

I can go ask a mod about it, right now.

Do please.

Do please.

if you really want me to.

Sistan has an interesting idea. Finding out information on countries with top-secret militaries could be difficult, however. But it can be inferred through reliable sources.

Sistan has an interesting idea. Finding out information on countries with top-secret militaries could be difficult, however. But it can be inferred through reliable sources.

How about this. We can trace say Brazil back to its mother nation. And use its tech. Or I can buy from us or russia.

if you really want me to.

I'd rather be in the know and be wrong, than otherwise.

Lets jsut see what happens first then I'll go to the mods and ask.

Sistan has an interesting idea. Finding out information on countries with top-secret militaries could be difficult, however. But it can be inferred through reliable sources.

Sistan's idea is what I was planning to do with ALM in the first place - I see no conflict of interests in the long run, although I also don't have much a preference for top-secret projects.

Sistan's idea is what I was planning to do with ALM in the first place - I see no conflict of interests in the long run, although I also don't have much a preference for top-secret projects.

Idk. The only reason I didnt think it was a good Idea is because some nations are divided and some nations dont have militarys.

Sistan has an interesting idea. Finding out information on countries with top-secret militaries could be difficult, however. But it can be inferred through reliable sources.
Most secret militaries aren't really that potent in the first place, so it just means that the person in question would have to just shoot for close and fill in the blanks with an arms contract or two. Fortunately, the most 'secret' military I can think of is Iran's, and since that's my problem and I intend on gutting it and rebuilding it in my own image I don't think it'll be a problem.

In fact, if you'd noticed from my opening thread, I've actually been using the statistics of the Shah's air force from before the Islamic revolution simply because nobody knows just what the current Iranian military still has working.

I was just reading this on Iran's military (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/army.htm), and thought:

What about militaries with foreign equipment?

Theyed just use that equipment.

I was just reading this on Iran's military (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/army.htm), and thought:

What about militaries with foreign equipment?
They're pretty much at the mercy of the nations that produced the equipment with regards to spares and new equipment. Should the nation in question refuse to play ball, they basicly have to do what Iran did. Cannibalize equipment to keep things running, try to reverse engineer, and get their hands on whatever they can from whoever. While this is a logistical nightmare, it is great incentive to get a domestic arms industry going. Also, what Iran is doing.

They're pretty much at the mercy of the nations that produced the equipment with regards to spares and new equipment. Should the nation in question refuse to play ball, they basicly have to do what Iran did. Cannibalize equipment to keep things running, try to reverse engineer, and get their hands on whatever they can from whoever. While this is a logistical nightmare, it is great incentive to get a domestic arms industry going. Also, what Iran is doing.

as is ALM [in RP once it gets really started and such...anyone wanna help? :D]

also, TG6R, is this verified? http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11451298#post11451298

They're pretty much at the mercy of the nations that produced the equipment with regards to spares and new equipment. Should the nation in question refuse to play ball, they basicly have to do what Iran did. Cannibalize equipment to keep things running, try to reverse engineer, and get their hands on whatever they can from whoever. While this is a logistical nightmare, it is great incentive to get a domestic arms industry going. Also, what Iran is doing.

So are we going ahead with Idea and using sistans plan? Becasue I really need to get started with my military.

as is ALM [in RP once it gets really started and such...anyone wanna help? :D]

also, TG6R, is this verified? http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11451298#post11451298
I'd offer to help, but that would be detrimental to my own international arms industry.

FYI - to anyone reviewing this forum, please feel free to join in the fun! As you can see, we spend our time debating fervently on topics that are very important, and we don't want to exclude you from the fun! :D

SO is it a yes or no on Sistan's systim?

Alif Laam Miim: Yes.
Dweladelfia prime: Not yet. I would wait until Sharina says something on it.

SO is it a yes or no on Sistan's systim?
Pat Buchanan.


Wait! No! I meant Yes!

...Shit.

Pat Buchanan.


Wait! No! I meant Yes!

...Shit.

ha....ha....ha.......

I hope Sharina says yes, because that's basically what I've been doing...

as a courtesy, I'm going to also start posting links to the factbooks and whatnot for the nations that have them and furthermore those that have been confirmed [or green light]. They will be on the map thread, with all of the other claims - click on the underlined portion [of course, they're all underlined, so you're gonna have to guess if they have anything at all...]

ADD - If I miss ya, sorry - just tell me and I'll fix it ASAP. Otherwise, I'm picking out from the IC thread...

Here's my opinion on the military stuff.

1. No buying mainstream NS stuff and then use it in Earth V (as there's no DMG, Doomingsland, Phoenix Militia, Sarzonia, Praetonia, etc. in Earth V).

2. RL equipment is encouraged in Earth V.

3. Different equipment variations according to national history should be allowed as well. Suppose China decides to build its own version of the F-22 Raptor, or if India builds its own version of a stealth bomber... it shouldn't be realistic to just say China owns F-22's or India owns B-2's- in real life, they'd have to develop it all on their own instead of mooching or stealing the US top secret military stuff (Area 51 or the specs on RADAR absorbent material in the B-2's).

4. New kinds of equipment should be allowed, but use realistic and reasonable RP and linked sources to support the new equipment idea.

5. What makes this different than NS stuff is that in RL, we are going to use resources and RL populations (so nations won't have 10 SD's or crap). With resources, nations with low natural resources probably won't be able to build their new military stuff in great numbers, unlike in NS where resources are apparently infinite meaning 10,000 planes and 50,000 tanks per nation in NS. The budget constraints of using RL populations means nations will be limited to how much military and new equipment they'll be able to develop and deploy. That means no 50,000 tanks with depleted uranium armor per nation (most likely maybe only 1,000 tanks in the entire world with depleted uranium armor from RL Earth's limited resources compared to NS infinite resources)

-----------------------

Discuss, please. I'm pretty good when it comes to identifying what would be constitued as wanking and "OMG! Tank of d()()m!" as I've waded through hundreds of threads with crappy units and stuff. So if someone really goes overboard, I can step in and moderate it.

Im going with RL and using Sharina's boosts...175% for me though.
My economy is horrid though so Ill figur out some sort of thing maybe use (RL/my GDP) as a multiplier for my ecostats...
But we just decided to not use such boosts. We're going to use the population figures right out of the cia factbook. That's more realistic.

3. Different equipment variations according to national history should be allowed as well. Suppose China decides to build its own version of the F-22 Raptor, or if India builds its own version of a stealth bomber... it shouldn't be realistic to just say China owns F-22's or India owns B-2's- in real life, they'd have to develop it all on their own instead of mooching or stealing the US top secret military stuff (Area 51 or the specs on RADAR absorbent material in the B-2's).

That's happened several times in the past, but there are several variables that must be met for the attempt to be successful.
1. The nation trying to produce a clone needs quite a few copies of the aircraft in question.
2. The nation trying to produce a clone needs to have an advanced enough aircraft industry to produce the aircraft in the first place.
3. The nation trying to produce a clone needs to be able to afford the development of the clone, which while not as expensive as the original aircraft's initial development costs, will still be expensive. The price increases exponentially with the complexity of the aircraft.
4. The nation trying to produce a clone needs to be able to afford the clones.

Though cloning aircraft has been done several times in the past, the Soviet Tu-4 for example was a bolt by bolt clone of the Boeing B-29 for instance, It's generally not that easy. Another example would be Iran's new Azarakhsh, which is basicly a cloned F-5E that's been made larger and has upgraded components. The Japanese F-2 is another clone and the project is much like that of the Azarakhsh, except that the F-2 is an F-16 clone designed for Japan in a joint project between the US and Japan.

Anyway, I'd have to say that the second prerequisite is the most important. Even though Ethiopia has several Su-27s, there's no chance in hell that the Ethiopians can clone the plane. China, on the other hand, can, and has cloned Soviet aircraft before such as the MiG-21, cloned as the J-7.

One final note, however, is the Tu-160, which is a Soviet bomber that looks almst exactly like the B-1B. However, rather than being a clone, the Tu-160 was developed independantly in response to the B-1, and is actually a much larger, faster, and more potent aircraft. The only nations capable of a feat like the Tu-160 would be nations that are already creating their own advanced designs in the first place.

If we want to be really realistic, we have many countries RL military expenditures on globalsecurity.org (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm).

Is this a better system than to calcutale the defense budget based only on the country's population? Maybe a mix? Add these RL budgets to the calculated one? Or should we only go with the one decided now?

RL budgets don't have much to do with the Earth V nations. Budgets and economies change with the governments, but populations tend to stay relatively static regardless of who is in power.

ok i havent been online in a while and now what is annexation I forget

Here's my opinion on the military stuff.

1. No buying mainstream NS stuff and then use it in Earth V (as there's no DMG, Doomingsland, Phoenix Militia, Sarzonia, Praetonia, etc. in Earth V).

2. RL equipment is encouraged in Earth V.

3. Different equipment variations according to national history should be allowed as well. Suppose China decides to build its own version of the F-22 Raptor, or if India builds its own version of a stealth bomber... it shouldn't be realistic to just say China owns F-22's or India owns B-2's- in real life, they'd have to develop it all on their own instead of mooching or stealing the US top secret military stuff (Area 51 or the specs on RADAR absorbent material in the B-2's).

4. New kinds of equipment should be allowed, but use realistic and reasonable RP and linked sources to support the new equipment idea.

5. What makes this different than NS stuff is that in RL, we are going to use resources and RL populations (so nations won't have 10 SD's or crap). With resources, nations with low natural resources probably won't be able to build their new military stuff in great numbers, unlike in NS where resources are apparently infinite meaning 10,000 planes and 50,000 tanks per nation in NS. The budget constraints of using RL populations means nations will be limited to how much military and new equipment they'll be able to develop and deploy. That means no 50,000 tanks with depleted uranium armor per nation (most likely maybe only 1,000 tanks in the entire world with depleted uranium armor from RL Earth's limited resources compared to NS infinite resources)

-----------------------

Discuss, please. I'm pretty good when it comes to identifying what would be constitued as wanking and "OMG! Tank of d()()m!" as I've waded through hundreds of threads with crappy units and stuff. So if someone really goes overboard, I can step in and moderate it.


So do we still buy the equipment from the country of origin?

If we want to be really realistic, we have many countries RL military expenditures on globalsecurity.org (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm).

Is this a better system than to calcutale the defense budget based only on the country's population? Maybe a mix? Add these RL budgets to the calculated one? Or should we only go with the one decided now?

No the way Sharina explaned it was fine. Divide your ns pop. into your real pop. and then mutiply it with your NS defence budget.

I would buy Russian stuff from MW and American stuff from Sharina right?

Sharina or whoever controls the state in which a company is based. (Illinois for Boeing/McDonnell Douglas/North American, Maryland for Lockheed Martin, California for Northrop Grumman, Texas for Fairchild, and so on.)

Sharina or whoever controls the state in which a company is based. (Illinois for Boeing/McDonnell Douglas/North American, Maryland for Lockheed Martin, California for Northrop Grumman, Texas for Fairchild, and so on.)

I'm gonna get my land and naval equipment from Sharina and my air from MW.

There's a guy claiming Australia, named Who's in Charge, population 18mil. Please confirm.

[first Charge guy, then TG6R or Sharina...]


ADD - And a note to new folk wanting to join - you will not be getting in just by TGing me. As far as I know, I'm not the claim-approval guy. I just the guy who gets the green light and slice and lemon creme pie whenever the claim is approved. If you want to make a claim, TG TG6R or Sharina, or post here [better] for your claim. Otherwise, I'm going to either be nice and revert the claim to this thread, or be extremely mean and delete the TG before it ever gets known [and don't make me revert to this, because I am a nice guy...]. And don't post on the map thread either, because that's just a map thread [unless TG6R or Sharina are very nice and willing to approve claims there, but that'd mean checking two places for claims...].

In all, this is a recruiting, so it would be in your interest to do the recruiting here, so there's little confusion [except in the rare and annoying instance of claims fighting, which TG6R ironically and vehemently forbids].

Sharina check your Tgs.

I would buy Russian stuff from MW and American stuff from Sharina right?
Russian (modern MiG and Su aircraft) would be MW, but Soviet would be Great Romeo. Great Romeo was one of the integral members of the Earth V equivalent of the Warsaw Pact (USFR? I think it was called that...), and the only surviving one to this day. So if any one wants to spare parts for Sputnik (no joke either, he launched it not too long ago), there's where you go. :)

As for me, I'll replace all of my ancient storefront-bought stuff with RL stuff.

About Military Equipment...

You can build up your army/navy/air force based on the equipment your land has in RL without buying it from the origin nation (if not build in your own country). That's correct, huh?

And if you want to expand or have other things you must buy it inside Earth V?

This way it's going to be realistic.

Good sources for looking up a nations military equipment are i.e. en.wikipedia.org and www.globalsecurity.org.

If anybody needs information on a little known nation's military, I can also estimate the equipment using Superpower 2, although globalsecurity.org is more accurate if it has information on the country.

That's what I've done.

And I hate doing this, especially since I've been so adamant about other's doing it, but I'd like know if the Emirate can invade and occupy the remaining portions of Sudan. It's such a headache trying to figure out the trade and resources available in just the northern portion.

If anybody needs information on a little known nation's military, I can also estimate the equipment using Superpower 2, although globalsecurity.org is more accurate if it has information on the country.

HAHA! That's the best game involving the RL world ever!!! too bad the UN doesn't work like it should...

Brazil has the crapiest military ever.

Brazil has the crapiest military ever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer

They have a great aviation company at least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer

They have a great aviation company at least.

MWMWMWMHAHAHAHA Time to start making jets.

And I hate doing this, especially since I've been so adamant about other's doing it, but I'd like know if the Emirate can invade and occupy the remaining portions of Sudan. It's such a headache trying to figure out the trade and resources available in just the northern portion.

I hate doing this too... but I'd like to know if TG6R will accept.

Just to let you all know I'm making a new fighter. It will be up for sale soon.

I hate doing this too... but I'd like to know if TG6R will accept.
Go ahead. I can tell you OOC that we wouldn't mind IC.

Military Rules!

See the first post by Norleans:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:seZDa9SdDIcJ:forums.jolt.co.uk/printthread.php%3Ft%3D411271+Mauiwowee+uber&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

Military Rules!

See the first post by Norleans:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:seZDa9SdDIcJ:forums.jolt.co.uk/printthread.php%3Ft%3D411271+Mauiwowee+uber&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

Heck I'm not reading that - I'm posting it here!

THE MILITARY STRENGTH RULE - IMPORTANT!
1. All Nations must declare their military strengths in the Military Strengths thread;
2. Pursuant to the following rule, all nations must make reasonable efforts to keep their military strengths up-to-date. You are subject to be called on a "wank" at any time when what you RP doesn't fall within the following Military Strength's calculation rule.
3. THE RULE ITSELF (with an example) -
a. You may have no more than 5 million people including logistics and support personnel on active duty per $1 Trillion in your 3rd Geek Defense Budget (reasonable rounding of numbers is acceptable). You can have less, but you cannot have more;
b. The total number of people on active duty must be "broken out" percentage wise between the Army, Navy, Airforce and Marines
c. You must have at a minimum 4 logistics people for every front line fighter in your Marines and Army, 3 logistics people for every battleship/carrier/destroyer/sub etc. crewman in your Navy, and 9 logistics people for every combat aircraft (fighters/bombers/AWAC's) in your airforce. You can have more logistics if you wish, but you must have at this at a minimum;
d. If you are being invaded, all figures calculated pursuant to the above can be bumped up by 15% in recognition of your activation of reserves and the use of your civilian population that will come to the defense of their homeland;
e. If you activate reserves for warfare other than in defense of your homeland, you are subject to the 5 million maximum and 3/4/9 minimum logistics and support person rule for your reserves as well; and
f. A 5 million man force with the minimum logistics support permissible will have the training, skill, support and be as "effective" of a fighting force as, for example only, the former Soviet Union or Chinese military (i.e. lots of fighters, but poorly trained and equipped and subject to supply line and similar problems) Note also that a large force, even with "bumped up" support will not be as good as a smaller force with the same "bumped up" support numbers due to the need to spread your budget among more people;
g. EXAMPLE
* 3rd Geek Defense Budget equals $4,874,800,000,000.00
* Total declared strength is 2 million men per Trillion = 9.6 million men
* 25% spread across all branches = 2.4 million men per branch
* Army & Marines - 4:1 logistics = 480,000 front line fighters per branch
* Navy - 3:1 Logistics = 600,000 men on combat vessels, including pilots on carriers
* Airforce - 9:1 Logistics = 240,000 people on combat craft (don't forget, bombers may have as many as 10 people in their crew, fighters might have 2, etc. so 240,000 people does NOT mean 240,000 aircraft).
4. If your military is not as strong as you'd like under this rule, tough! Vote on issues in NS in such a way as to increase your defense budget. It is possible to be a big nation with a weak military (i.e. China) and a smaller nation with a great military (i.e. Great Britain or Germany).
5. Special Uber Force Rule Iif you wish to have a significant "uber forces" or "super special forces branch" that gets a disproportionate share of money, equipment, etc. you should break them out separately - a normal navy will have SEAL teams, armies will have green berets, special forces paratroopers, but they're all included in the regular army budget. However, it is possible you might create a new branch of your military for the "super duper uber elite" that get more training, etc. than the regular guys do - Because of the high initial cost, (all that extra training and equipment costs a lot) but low maintenance cost (once set up and organized, they get their orders and go, they don't need supply lines to do their job - they might need some choppers or an aircraft or a sub on occassion, if they do they borrow it from another branch of the service) of setting up such a unit - no more than 5% of your military can belong to the super uber units. However, average logistics for such a unit can be as low as 2:1 and they'll be relatively functional. At 5 or 6:1 They're gonna be deadly bastards and hard to stop for sure (Think of Rambo, Arnold Scwartzenegger's character from Predator, James Bond and Ripley {Sigourney Weaver} from Alien all wrapped up into one package and then multiplied by 200,000 - The ultimate uber force).
6. Special Homeland Defense Rule In addition to getting to "bump" your numbers by 15% if you are invaded in recognition of your civilians that join in, you may also use your "law and order" budget in the same way you use your military budget to create a homeland defense force out of your population. - i.e. if your "law and order" budget is $2 trillion, you can use it the same way your use your military budget to create an additional homeland defense force and effectively increase the trained and equipped military you have defending your own shores over and above the civilians that come out to fight for you.
7. To get your military budget, cut and paste this site into your browser and replace the "____________" with your nation's NS name

http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nsec...n=_____________

8. Further Examples

UBER GOOD MILITARY ALL THE WAY AROUND

This military would be about as good as it gets all the way around. If your budget was more, just keep the same ratios and you'd be fine (i.e. I'm working here with a $5 trillion budget, if you had a $10 trillion budget, you could just double the numbers of people while keeping the same % division and logistics ratio and have an military twice as big as this, but just as good. You wouldn't have to use an equal division between your military branches either for them to be good, just keep the total number of troops at 1.5 million/Trillion and use the logists numbers supplied)

Budget: $5,000,000,000,000.00 ($5 Trillion)

1.5 Million men per $Trillion = 7.5 Million men

Army: 25% = 1.875 Million men - 8:1 logistics = 208,333 combat soldiers
Navy: 25% = 1.875 Million men - 6:1 logistics = 267,857 combat ship personnel
Marines: 25% = 1.875 Million men - 8:1 logistics - 208,333 combat soldiers
Air Force: 25% = 1.875 Million men - 20:1 logistics = 89,285 combat aircraft personnel

This military would be well equipped with the best stuff, very well trained, very well supplied and capable of holding their own against a much larger force. Some of you probably think these numbers are exceptionally small, but they are not, think about the idea that the U.S. in RL has the best military in the world with only about 1.3 million people in including logistics and support with about a one trillion budget. Small, well trained, well equipped and efficiently supplied militaries are the best as a general rule. You can budget $666,666.66 per person in your military with these figures to pay, feed, house and provide medical care for them, reasonably afford to buy them new equpment and supplies, such a new planes, carriers, etc. that cost hundreds of millions and even billions each. You can also afford some decent R & D to come up with new weapons.

MAYBE AS GOOD AS THE CHINESE MILITARY ON A REALLY GOOD DAY

Budget: $5,000,000,000,000.00 ($5 Trillion)

5 Million men per $Trillion = 25 Million men

Army: 25% = 6.25 Million men - 4:1 logistics = 1,250,000 combat soldiers
Navy: 25% = 6.25 Million men - 3:1 logistics = 1,560,250 combat ship personnel
Marines: 25% = 6.25 Million men - 4:1 logistics - 1,250,000 combat soldiers
Air Force: 25% = 6.25 Million men - 9:1 logistics = 625,000 combat aircraft personnel

Wow, much bigger military, gonna kick the uber army butt, right? Wrong! You've cut your spending to only $200,000.00 per soldier, barely 30% of what the "uber" military spends to outfit, train, etc. it's people. For every $3.00 you spend getting your guys trained and equpped with stuff, the uber army has spent $10.00. You've got aging Mig fighters in your airforce, they have F22 Raptors. They have guys ready to fix anything that breaks at any time. You are constantly on the scamble to keep up with your maintainance and keep everything in working order. R & D is gonna be tough, supply lines in a combat zone are subject to breakdown far to easily to be comfortable. You could beat the uber military if you plan things right, due to number superiority - just keep thoughing soldiers at them till they have to give. On a "level playing field" though, they are likely to mop the floor with you.

PRETTY DECENT MILITARY WITH AN "UBER" BRANCH

$5 Trilliion budget - 2 Million men per trillion = 10 million men

Army: 25% = 2.5 million men, 6:1 logistics = 357,142 combat soldiers
Navy: 25% = 2.5 million men, 5:1 logistics = 416,666 combat ship personnel
Marines: 25% = 2.5 million men, 4:1 logistics = 500,000 combat soldiers
Air Force: 25% = 2.5 million men, 21:1 logistics = 113,636 combat plane personnel

Your spending is now $500,000 per man - 76% of the uber military spending, you're spending $7.60 for every $10.00 the uber military spends. - but look at the logistics - your army is ok, could be better, but not bad. Your Navy is doing ok, not great, but definetly ready to hold it's own, as well. Your marines are just barely getting by, poor guys, at least they are marines. But your airforce is clearly the focus of the $500,000 per man you spend. Your army may get beat by the uber army, it may not, it's going to be a well fought battle. However, your airforce could go toe-to-toe with them any day. Your airplanes may not all be as good as the uber airforces, but you'll be close enough to them that when coupled with the additional pilots you have and a logistcs and support network that is as good and even better than the uber airforce, you're gonna do just fine in a air war with the uber military.


OK MILITARY WITH AN "UBER" ELITE SPECIAL BRANCH

$5 Trilliion budget - 3 Million men per trillion = 15 million men

Army: 20% = 3 million men, 6:1 logistics = 428,571 combat soldiers
Navy: 25% = 3.75 million men, 5:1 logistics = 625,000 combat ship personnel
Marines: 25% = 3.75 million men, 4:1 logistics = 750,000 combat soldiers
Air Force: 25% = 3.75 million men, 15:1 logistics = 234,375 combat plane personnel
Uber Forces: 5% = 750,000 men, 5:1 logistics = 125,000 uber elite special forces team

Your budget is $333,333.33 a man, 50% of the uber military total. Your logistics and support are ok - you've got enough people to put up a really good fight and possibly win, especially if you make good use of your "uber force" - a team of specialists that you have developed and that get more money and support than the other branches. There's only 125,000 of them, but they are gonna be better trained, equipped, supported, etc. than the uber army's crack green beret outfit - we talking Super Duper Navy Seals here. Just RP a little extra spending for them at the expense of some other forces.

THE PEACE TIME MILITARY

$5 Trillion Budget - 500,000 men per trillion = 2.5 million men

Army: 25% = 625,000 men, 6:1 logistics = 89,285 combat soldiers
Navy: 25% = 625,000 men, 5:1 logistics = 10,416 combat ship personnel
Marines: 25% = 625,000 men, 4:1 logistics = 125,000 combat soldiers
Air Force: 25% = 625,000 million men, 15:1 logistics = 41,666 combat plane personnel

Wow!!! you've got $2 million per person to spend - much more than is needed - the guys in the military should be well trained, well equipped, etc. Their support is decent, though not outstanding (well, the marines need some help, but hey, they're marines, they are used to suffering). You are ready to respond to a surprise attack in a decent fashion, depending on the size and nature of the attacker, and you have plenty of room to boost your military to combat strength. You also have lots of spare cash left over to R & D new stuff and buy new stuff - you look good - but when the uber combat army attacks by surprise, you're gonna have to scramble fast or you'll get your ass kicked hard.
****************************************************************
THE WMD RULE

1. The effect of a WMD (i.e. bio, chemical, nuclear or EMP weapon) is limited to one large city;
2. No player may use more than 2 WMD's in any war;
3. EXAMPLES;
a. I am at war with nation "X" and I launch 200 nuclear tipped ICBM's at 200 targets in nation "X" - no more than 2 will hit a target and the destruction caused will be limited to the target they hit and Nation "X" gets to declare, as the defender, which targets were struck.
b. I am at war with nation "X" and I launch 200 nuclear tipped ICBM's at 1 target in nation "X" - no more than 2 will hit the target and the destruction caused will be limited to the target they hit and Nation "X" gets to declare, as the defender, what the damage was.
c. I am at war with nation "X" and I launch 10 EMP weapons at 10 targets and 15 Bio weapons at 15 targets - only 2 targets can be hit and the defender gets to say which was hit with what.
4. Realistically RP'd defenses to WMD's that prevent any WMD attack from inflicting damage are ok;
5. Once you have succesfully used 2 WMD attacks on the nation you are at war with, that's it, you are limited to conventional warfare until the conflict is resolved; and
6. Taking out a naval fleet, a large army contingent, etc. is the same as taking out a city with a WMD.
*************************************************************
THE "UBER TECH" RULE
1. Earth V operates in the 2015 - 2020 tech level range;
2. If it already exists in RL - feel free to RP its use;
3. If it does not exist, but clearly could, you may RP it, but if it's existence/use is challenged by someone, it will be subject to mod review and approval - obviously, if it clearly could exist, mod approval will not be a problem - for example, a .40 cal. S & W machine gun does not exist in RL, but clearly, such could be created if someone wanted to.
4. If it does not exist in RL, and will clearly be subjected to challenge as being a god mod or tech wank, but you feel that it could exist with proper expenditure of time/effort/innovation - RP it's development and stats and ask for a mod ruling. For example, submerssible aircraft carriers do not exist in RL. However, such a thing has been contemplated in RL and the Japanese experimented with the idea in WW II - you want to have a submersible carrier, RP it's design, development and stats and get mod approval for a final version and presto, you got it.
5. Once the mods approve of an item, if you think it is still a god mod, tough! However, convincing arguments based on additional info. not presented in the original design and approval process may be submitted for mod. consideration and if it truly warrants a reversal or revision of the mod's decision then the mods will undertake to do that.
6. The innovative use of existing and experimental tech is encouraged, but "bleeding edge" stuff should be submitted for approval prior to use so as to avoid arguments in RP threads.
7. Use reason and common sense in designs of new stuff and in decisions to "officially" challenge something as being a "tech wank" or "god mod."
************************************************************
THE NATIONAL SPECIALITY RULE
1. Each nation may declare an area of specialization or area of endeavor in which their nation excels. Other nations should recognize this specialization during RP's.
2. The specialization area must not be so broad as to be "all encompassing" but need not be so narrow as to be useless.
3. Mods will adjust specialization areas if need be and when a problem is brought to their attention.
4. EXAMPLES:
A) Mauiwowee claims an expertise or specialization in naval warfare - That is too broad and won't be allowed. Maui claims an expertise in submerible technology - OK, his subs, torpedoes, etc. are better than average, his suface ships are not - He has some naval warfare advantages.
B) Sharina claims expertise in logistics and supply - Too broad, not allowed. Sharina claims expertise in manufacturing robotics - OK, his factories are exceptionally efficient at producing things for his people and he will have some logistics & supply advantages.
C) Vineyard claims an expertise in "warfare" - no good, too broad. He claims an expertise in "ground forces deployment" - OK, his army will be well prepared and will have a slight advantage as they understand the best way to maximize their strengths in the manner in which the deploy forces in a battle. The airforce is not going to have this advantage though.
5. Use common sense and reason in declaring your expertise and area of specialization and do the same in RP's with others that recognize their areas of expertise.

EMB-99 Wolverine

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/darth_avondale/EMB-99Wolverine.jpg

History:

In 2006 the Empire of Dweladelfia Prime came to power in Brazil. They immediately called for a design of an Air superiority fight. Empresa Brasileira de Aeronáutica or Embraer took up the challenge. There plan was to make a fighter comparable to the F-15 and Su-37. Within a few months the EMP-99 Wolverine was born.

Primary Function

The Primary Function of the wolverine is Air superiority. The jets speed and maneuverability makes it a great dogfighter. The fighter is also built to be a very good fighter bomber. Advanced targeting systems enable it to hit targets with pin point accuracy.

Propulsion

The Wolverine is capable of reaching speeds of Mach 1.8. That is mostly thanks to the 2 Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 engines. The same type of engines used in the F-22. Test showed that the Wolverine could out match the speed of the F-15 eagle. Further more it has the ability to super cruise. Any nation that has a Wolverine n there service has a significant edge in speed over any other country. The Wolverine also has a range of 3,500 miles. This gives the fighter the ability to strike targets far from its base.

Armament

The Wolverine also has 12 hard ports. 4 internal and 8 external. The internal weapons bay can hold 4 AIM-9 Sidewinders. The external bays can hold either CBU-52-89, AIM-120 AMRAAM, AIM-132 ASRAAM, AIM-54 Phoenix Missile or more AIM-9s. The wolverine also has the ability to target up to 6 different targets at the sometime. Test has shown that the EMP-99 can take on up to 3 F-15s at the same time. The Wolverine has long range radar able to pick up targets from up to 240-nautical-mile area. The Wolverine also has a lantern pod to guide bombs to there target. A M296 - 50cal Gun is also placed on the aircraft for close air to air combat.


Specs:

EMB-99 Wolverine

Primary Function: Air Superiority Fighter
Contractor: Empresa Brasileira de Aeronáutica
Power Plant: 2 Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 engines
Thrust: 35,000 last
Length: 64 feet
Height: 17 Feet
Wingspan: 43 feet, 10 inches
Speed: Mach 1.9 (super cruise: Mach 1.5)
Ceiling: 65,000 feet (19,697 meters).
Range: 3,500 miles (3,100 nautical miles) ferry range with conformal fuel tanks and three external fuel tanks.
Armament: 4 hard ports on each wing, 2 internal weapons bay. Each Weapons bay can hold 2 missiles. (12 Missiles total), M296 - 50cal Gun
Systems:

# AN/ALQ-136
# AN/ALQ-128 radar warning [Magnavox] suite
# AN/ALR-56 radar warning receiver (RWR) [Loral]
# AN/ALE-45 chaff/flare dispensers [Tracor]
# MIL-STD-1787
# AN/AVQ-26 Pave Tack
# AN/AXQ-14 Data Link System
# LANTIRN
# AN/TPS-75 Radar System
# AN/TRN-26

Crew: 1
Unit Cost: 50 Million USDs

Any comments. Be nice I'm new.

Okay, its gonna take a long while to tally up my entire RL population. I have to count every US state I control, plus Canada plus the Caribbean islands and Latin America.

In addition, I have already developed a few unique units for my nation in the early days of Earth V RP'ing such as a mobile DORA artillery platform (The Colossus), larger than Nimitz size aircraft carriers (but not by much), the Paragon Tanks (different than the M1A1 Abrams), 6 engined bombers, heavy body armor for urban combat, and so forth.

My military specialization is essentially "boosted support systems" (more efficient logistics from automation, better technology research + development, and better manufacturing in factories). My Airforce, Navy, and Army are pretty much average otherwise.

development often takes years - and aside from posting in an ooc thread, it's pretty nicec actually [coming from someone who's not fluent in military stats, especially pertaining to the air force...]

Okay, its gonna take a long while to tally up my entire RL population. I have to count every US state I control, plus Canada plus the Caribbean islands and Latin America.

In addition, I have already developed a few unique units for my nation in the early days of Earth V RP'ing such as a mobile DORA artillery platform (The Colossus), larger than Nimitz size aircraft carriers (but not by much), the Paragon Tanks (different than the M1A1 Abrams), 6 engined bombers, heavy body armor for urban combat, and so forth.

My military specialization is essentially "boosted support systems" (more efficient logistics from automation, better technology research + development, and better manufacturing in factories). My Airforce, Navy, and Army are pretty much average otherwise.

Check your tgs. And comment on my plane.

development often takes years - and aside from posting in an ooc thread, it's pretty nicec actually [coming from someone who's not fluent in military stats, especially pertaining to the air force...]

Thanks. Wasnt gonna unveil it in IC until everybody comments on it.

Sharina or whoever controls the state in which a company is based. (Illinois for Boeing/McDonnell Douglas/North American, Maryland for Lockheed Martin, California for Northrop Grumman, Texas for Fairchild, and so on.)

Actually, the majority of Boeing employment in RL is based in California (31,500) and Washington (61,000) out of roughly 153,000 total. Arizona has 5,000 Boeing employees in it, and Pennslyvania has another 5,000. Sharina controls California, Washington, Arizona, and Pennslyvania, which means it would control over 100,000 Boeing employees using RL figures, which gives Sharina a 2/3 majority in Boeing.

There's quite a bit of Boeing industry in California and Washington as well.

Actually, the majority of Boeing employment in RL is based in California (31,500) and Washington (61,000) out of roughly 153,000 total. Arizona has 5,000 Boeing employees in it, and Pennslyvania has another 5,000. Sharina controls California, Washington, Arizona, and Pennslyvania, which means it would control over 100,000 Boeing employees using RL figures, which gives Sharina a 2/3 majority in Boeing.

There's quite a bit of Boeing industry in California and Washington as well.

CHECK YOUR TELAGRAMS!

CHECK YOUR TELAGRAMS!

calm down - Sharina's just gotten back, so give it some time...

calm down - Sharina's just gotten back, so give it some time...

Sorry just would like to get started on my military.

CHECK YOUR TELAGRAMS!

Relax.

I'm not just involved with Earth V, but I'm also involved in several other RP's (most notably E-20) and I'm doing some non-NS research online, PLUS I'm watching some TV and I'm cooking dinner.

So I will get back to you on your TG when I can. From what I've skimmed, your TG seems quite long and large, so it will take me a while to get to it. Everything doesn't happen instantly- people do have obligations outside of Earth V, either in NS, non-NS internet, or in RL.

Sorry. Has anybody looked at my plane specs yet?

Sorry. Has anybody looked at my plane specs yet?

I have :p

You know, that post on military rules seems off. Seeing how 1 Trillion dollars is not spent by all of the militaries of the world put together. I went to global security and the US spends 450 Billion and supports about 1.6 million troops. A nation with my economic spending on military, like Iran, has about 550,00 troops. That's without conscirption. While this policy takes economies into account (kinda) it doesn't get affected by policy. The logistics of it all makes sense (the ratios), but the Trillion dollar budgets aren't anywhere near close in the real world.

I think the military rule (the old one written by Norleans) is aimed towards the NS defense budget, not the one we calculate based upon Ns pop/ RL pop.

We must rewrite that part of the rule to fit the new calculated defense budgets.

Aren't we using RL populations and adjusting our NS economies to fit? Wouldn't this make our economies theoretically "RL"

Arabicia']You know, that post on military rules seems off. Seeing how 1 Trillion dollars is not spent by all of the militaries of the world put together. I went to global security and the US spends 450 Billion and supports about 1.6 million troops. A nation with my economic spending on military, like Iran, has about 550,00 troops. That's without conscirption. While this policy takes economies into account (kinda) it doesn't get affected by policy. The logistics of it all makes sense (the ratios), but the Trillion dollar budgets aren't anywhere near close in the real world.

It's a relative post I believe, because the idea comes from the old NS budgets [where you could have trillions of dollars in the bank...] - but in idea, it works.

Check out my military stats to see how it would like now:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11408476&postcount=3

So Everyone likes my plane right. Before I put it inot service and up for sale.

I would also like to post what the American Army uses per troop....

466 Billion total / 1625852 troops = $286,618.95 per troop

And the American army is considered one of the finest in the land....

So Everyone likes my plane right. Before I put it inot service and up for sale.

Answers would be nice....... I need to get working.

that's great because:

ALM per unit soldier: $250,044.70

ADD - evidently, the post needs some revising to make it more realistic, because 2mil per soldier is definitely uber-NS...

Answers would be nice....... I need to get working.

Although ALM won't be buying that particular brand, just go ahead and try to sell some on the market.

Although ALM won't be buying that particular brand, just go ahead and try to sell some on the market.

hey whats that saposed to mean. :p

New Storefront (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=494993)

Arabicia']I would also like to post what the American Army uses per troop....

466 Billion total / 1625852 troops = $286,618.95 per troop

And the American army is considered one of the finest in the land....
Did you see this?:

This military would be about as good as it gets all the way around. If your budget was more, just keep the same ratios and you'd be fine (i.e. I'm working here with a $5 trillion budget, if you had a $10 trillion budget, you could just double the numbers of people while keeping the same % division and logistics ratio and have an military twice as big as this, but just as good. You wouldn't have to use an equal division between your military branches either for them to be good, just keep the total number of troops at 1.5 million/Trillion and use the logists numbers supplied)

Budget: $5,000,000,000,000.00 ($5 Trillion)

1.5 Million men per $Trillion = 7.5 Million men

Army: 25% = 1.875 Million men - 8:1 logistics = 208,333 combat soldiers
Navy: 25% = 1.875 Million men - 6:1 logistics = 267,857 combat ship personnel
Marines: 25% = 1.875 Million men - 8:1 logistics - 208,333 combat soldiers
Air Force: 25% = 1.875 Million men - 20:1 logistics = 89,285 combat aircraft personnel

This military would be well equipped with the best stuff, very well trained, very well supplied and capable of holding their own against a much larger force. Some of you probably think these numbers are exceptionally small, but they are not, think about the idea that the U.S. in RL has the best military in the world with only about 1.3 million people in including logistics and support with about a one trillion budget. Small, well trained, well equipped and efficiently supplied militaries are the best as a general rule. You can budget $666,666.66 per person in your military with these figures to pay, feed, house and provide medical care for them, reasonably afford to buy them new equpment and supplies, such a new planes, carriers, etc. that cost hundreds of millions and even billions each. You can also afford some decent R & D to come up with new weapons.

I think the military rule (the old one written by Norleans) is aimed towards the NS defense budget, not the one we calculate based upon Ns pop/ RL pop.

We must rewrite that part of the rule to fit the new calculated defense budgets.

My suggestion is to slash the $1 trillion increments to $100 billion increments.

That should fix a lot of problems.

Actually, the majority of Boeing employment in RL is based in California (31,500) and Washington (61,000) out of roughly 153,000 total. Arizona has 5,000 Boeing employees in it, and Pennslyvania has another 5,000. Sharina controls California, Washington, Arizona, and Pennslyvania, which means it would control over 100,000 Boeing employees using RL figures, which gives Sharina a 2/3 majority in Boeing.

There's quite a bit of Boeing industry in California and Washington as well.
Having assets in your territory doesn't give you control of any of the company, it just gives you influence via trade laws. Unless you take Illinois, you have no claim to Boeing, manufacturing plants or not.

Also, Pratt & Whitney is HQed in Connecticut, so I hope you have permission from Sharina to use that engine, DP. Raytheon is in Massachusetts, so you'll need permission to use most of the missiles you've listed too.

Having assets in your territory doesn't give you control of any of the company, it just gives you influence via trade laws. Unless you take Illinois, you have no claim to Boeing, manufacturing plants or not.

Also, Pratt & Whitney is HQed in Connecticut, so I hope you have permission from Sharina to use that engine, DP. Raytheon is in Massachusetts, so you'll need permission to use most of the missiles you've listed too.

Pratt and wittneys: hmm good point. Sharina any problom with me using them?

Missiles: I said you could use those missiles thats for the buyer to decide.

Going over some of my saved Earth V RP's on my computer from a loooong time ago, there's two US states that should have reverted to Sharinan control upon the collapse of Norleans.

South Dakota and Nebraska.

Sharina and Norleans shared numerous agreements for these two states. Sharina helped Norleans conquer these two states, and Sharinan citizens were allowed to live in South Dakota and Nebraska as part of a "Dual Citizenship" deal reached with Norleans (Norleans citizens were given "Dual Citizenship" in Colorado and New Mexico in return).

So when Norleans collapsed, the number of Sharinan citizens, as well as the Sharina-Norleans agreements should mean South Dakota and Nebraska join Sharina.

Therefore, if TGSR would be as kind as to add three US states to Sharina's claims- Hawaii (the invasion), South Dakota, and Nebraska, it would be very much appreciated.

Having assets in your territory doesn't give you control of any of the company, it just gives you influence via trade laws. Unless you take Illinois, you have no claim to Boeing, manufacturing plants or not.

Also, Pratt & Whitney is HQed in Connecticut, so I hope you have permission from Sharina to use that engine, DP. Raytheon is in Massachusetts, so you'll need permission to use most of the missiles you've listed too.

Boeing was originally situated in Washington, specifically around Seattle.

Sharina owns 2/3 of Boeing's assets (stocks, factories, employees, etc.) therefore it shouldn't be a problem for Sharina to essentially buy up Boeing (66% stockholders are Sharinans as 2/3 of Boeing employees are Sharinans) and have it move back to its old HQ in Seattle, Washington.

Boeing has to obey Sharina, because otherwise, Boeing will lose practically 2/3 of its entire company- think it can still build Boeing planes if their manufacturing and research + development sectors in Washington and California are seized by Sharina (and Sharinan Boeing employees)?

Sharina all you have to do is answer yes or no on the shipment I asked for. I need to have it before the weekday, becasue I'll have no time to build an army then. Please answer the telagram. Sorry for being so pushy though.

Sharina all you have to do is answer yes or no on the shipment I asked for. I need to have it before the weekday, becasue I'll have no time to build an army then. Please answer the telagram. Sorry for being so pushy though.

I'm in the process of researching my Earth V populations, resources, and stats so it might take a while.

However, if you really need the shipment, I have to say I won't be able to do it this "game year" in 2006. Perhaps next year (2007 or 2008 in Earth V) considering the amount of stuff you asked for probably won't be able to finish production for a while.

Asking for 7,000 M1A1 Abrams tanks as well as thousands of other US military vehicles is no small thing.

I'm in the process of researching my Earth V populations, resources, and stats so it might take a while.

However, if you really need the shipment, I have to say I won't be able to do it this "game year" in 2006. Perhaps next year (2007 or 2008 in Earth V) considering the amount of stuff you asked for probably won't be able to finish production for a while.

Asking for 7,000 M1A1 Abrams tanks as well as thousands of other US military vehicles is no small thing.

I know I just need it confirmed, and a date of when I can get it. So I can update my fact book. But I won’t have them until the next year.

The real US military barely has that many Abrams.

Furthermore, having the manufacturing plants doesn't give you Boeing any more than it gives China Walmart. Also, employees don't own the entire company. Most is in the hand of a very small number of wealthy individuals. Since the company is HQed in Chicago, you don't control it.

Technically, unless you are a socialist or running some crazy command economy NO ONE owns Boeing, but the board of directors of Boeing.