NationStates Jolt Archive

You really want Jet Li. lol. OH well I'll stick with little known Filipino actors then. If there are any? Any wrestling fans will be disappointed, the ROck won't be born. His father is Canadian and his mother's father is from Somoa. Very little likelyhood that he'd move to the US in this reality.

Meh. I'm just interested in saving as many Chinese action stars as possible :D .

I don't play favorites, it's just I'm trying to figure out, timeline wise, which ones end up in Korea.

And Newfoundland belongs to who?

BTW: Who is the leader of the Arab Federation?

The Arab Federation(the Nation)'s Government is:

Head of State: Saddam Hussein
Head of Government: Michel Aflaq
Foreign Minister: Abdul Karim Qassim
Chief of Staff: Field Marshall Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr

The Arab Federation(the Nation)'s Government is:

Head of State: Saddam Hussein

Oh...those poor doomed people.

What is President Saddam Hussein's relations with the United Islamic Republic?

And Newfoundland belongs to who?

UK, historically it was a Crown Colony long after the rest of Canada became a Dominion

What is President Saddam Hussein's relations with the United Islamic Republic?

He personally see's the UIR as a puppet of China and S.C.T. but the government as a whole (he's not a dictator in E20) is trying to be as nice as possible to the UIR and the Arab/Islamic world as a whole with the exception of Oman and Western Arabia (which is a break-away state containing exactly what its name implies including Mecca).

He personally see's the UIR as a puppet of China and S.C.T. but the government as a whole (he's not a dictator in E20) is trying to be as nice as possible to the UIR and the Arab/Islamic world as a whole with the exception of Oman and Western Arabia (which is a break-away state containing exactly what its name implies including Mecca).

I smell a future UIR-Arab Federation War in the far, far future....after all, this is Khomeini and Saddam we're talking about. Inevitably, they've gotta butt heads.

RIght, so the odds of those two families meeting in this world are rather low. About 15% I'd say.

And yeah they would butt heads.

another FYI. I'll be out of touch until the weekend b/c of wisdom teeth surgery.

No nukes, crazy invading New Guinean headhunters (GB, that means you!) or other issues that would require my attention please. I promise you I wont want to deal with it.

another FYI. I'll be out of touch until the weekend b/c of wisdom teeth surgery.

No nukes, crazy invading New Guinean headhunters (GB, that means you!) or other issues that would require my attention please. I promise you I wont want to deal with it.

how about hordes of invading rabbits and cane toads?

Nah, I think the rabbits would be enough.

The information provided in this post is fairly open to anyone whose national leaders/government officials have paid attention to official Indian speeches, off the cuff remarks by Indian political leaders, and read a selection Indira Ghandi’s many publications (which I assume the UIR leaders at least have done). These are views no one is trying to keep secret.

IC Indian views Concerning Central Asia and United Islamic Republic

India really has no interests in expanding its territory for the very simple reason that the Indira Ghandi government sees no value in controlling Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, or any other part of Central Asia. There are no real benefits and significant costs. When India was part of the British Empire it served as the battle ground by which England contested control of Central Asia with the Union/Soviets and Southeast Asia with China/Japan. After the Third Great War the “Federated Asian States” controlled significant amounts of Central Asia (India having been nuked and hit with bio-weapons for the trouble of taking it from the Union), and how did India benefit from control of all that territory…? The answer, India did not benefit in the least and it found itself marginalized by a Northern based Muslim dominated Government (one a bloody Military Junta, the other a Military Dominated quasi-Republic) and fighting two intense and bloody civil wars. Government shifted to Pakistan, which then during the Twilight War decided to drag India into another thankless conflict purely for reasons of Central Asian territorial ambition…and got clobbered. That was the straw that broke the camels back, providing the incentive and opportunity (the Muslim dominated Military having been splattered across the steppes) and the Vanara Sena/Hindu Nationalists rose up in revolt, lynched Khan, took control of the country, and founded the Republic of India...the rest being history.

The Indian leadership and population feel that they were used…used by former Colonial Powers and Muslim Controlled Northern quasi-Military Governments in various schemes to dominate Central Asia, all to India’s determent (what did the Indian/Hindu population gain? Whatever it was it sure did not offset the cost). So territorial expansion is clearly not one of President/Prime Minister Indira Ghandi’s various agendas...it should be noted that India has not contested or disputed its current border with Pakistan. Besides, India, being a subcontinent and the most populated country on Earth, is difficult enough to manage by itself, imagine when one has to deal with all the various tribes, religions, cultures, and ethnic groups of Central Asia in addition to governing India.

Frankly the Indian Leadership, having seen proxies and States to their north come and go, are rather cynical about the idea of anyone trying to control Central Asia, observing that it is one of the most fluid regions on Earth. They view Central Asia as a source of violence, trouble, and tragedy, a very unstable part of the globe that they have the misfortune of bordering, a place in the popular imagination that invasions and raiders spring from (the history of the attempted Muslim conquest from the North and the Mughal Empire weigh heavily on those Indians with knowledge of history).

So the claims made by the United Islamic Republic in its propaganda statements about it safeguarding Pakistan and Pakistan’s surrounding areas from a vengeful India are plainly false/fantasy (perhaps an attempt to keep Pakistan and Afghanistan’s many Tribalistic Sunnis from dwelling on the fact that they are led by a Persian Shiite Ayatollah in far away Tehran).

The FNS would like to know if its military forces are still wanted in India for policing duties.

The FNS would like to know if its military forces are still wanted in India for policing duties.

The Indian Government assures the FNS that the subcontinent is presently stable and moving forward. However, the Republic questions the FNS on whether it could spare some military equipment or development aid to assist India. Pakistan's collapse, the sudden separation, and the Great Depression left India with very little hard ware or capital?

(ooc: Pakistan had even less in the end, which is why it caved into the UIR.)

The FNS would be happy to sign some trade agreements. The Government will look through the budgets to see what can be scraped up for India.

Gb: TG

The FNS would be happy to sign some trade agreements. The Government will look through the budgets to see what can be scraped up for India.

Things India finds itself currently in need of, according to the Indian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, include fighter planes, helicopters, additional commercial tonnage (trade ships), nuclear power, and the necessary investment to build an additional production center. India is willing to pay back expensive contributions at a later date. The Republic of India would also be happy to sign a trade agreement with the FNS, which India partly owes its liberation from Pakistani domination, as it was the FNS that crushed the Pakistani army in Central Asia, giving the Vanara Sena movement its chance to strike and overthrow the foul General Ayub Khan.

The information provided in this post is fairly open to anyone whose national leaders/government officials have paid attention to official Indian speeches, off the cuff remarks by Indian political leaders, and read a selection Indira Ghandi’s many publications (which I assume the UIR leaders at least have done). These are views no one is trying to keep secret.

IC Indian views Concerning Central Asia and United Islamic Republic

India really has no interests in expanding its territory for the very simple reason that the Indira Ghandi government sees no value in controlling Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, or any other part of Central Asia. There are no real benefits and significant costs. When India was part of the British Empire it served as the battle ground by which England contested control of Central Asia with the Union/Soviets and Southeast Asia with China/Japan. After the Third Great War the “Federated Asian States” controlled significant amounts of Central Asia (India having been nuked and hit with bio-weapons for the trouble of taking it from the Union), and how did India benefit from control of all that territory…? The answer, India did not benefit in the least and it found itself marginalized by a two Northern based Muslim dominated Military Juntas and fighting two intense and bloody civil wars. Government shifted to Pakistan, which then during the Twilight War decided to drag India into another thankless conflict purely for reasons of Central Asian territorial ambition…and got clobbered. That was the straw that broke the camels back, providing the incentive and opportunity (the Muslim dominated Military having been splattered across the steppes) and the Vanara Sena/Hindu Nationalists rose up in revolt, lynched Khan, took control of the country, and founded the Republic of India...the rest being history.

The Indian leadership and population feel that they were used…used by former Colonial Powers and Muslim Controlled Northern quasi-Military Governments in various schemes to dominate Central Asia, all to India’s determent (what did the Indian/Hindu population gain? Whatever it was it sure did not offset the cost). So territorial expansion is clearly not one of President/Prime Minister Indira Ghandi’s various agendas...it should be noted that India has not contested or disputed its current border with Pakistan. Besides, India, being a subcontinent and the most populated country on Earth, is difficult enough to manage by itself, imagine when one has to deal with all the various tribes, religions, cultures, and ethnic groups of Central Asia in addition to governing India.

Frankly the Indian Leadership, having seen proxies and States to their north come and go, are rather cynical about the idea of anyone trying to control Central Asia, observing that it is one of the most fluid regions on Earth. They view Central Asia as a source of violence, trouble, and tragedy, a very unstable part of the globe that they have the misfortune of bordering, a place in the popular imagination that invasions and raiders spring from (the history of the attempted Muslim conquest from the North and the Mughal Empire weigh heavily on those Indians with knowledge of history).

So the claims made by the United Islamic Republic in its propaganda statements about it safeguarding Pakistan and Pakistan’s surrounding areas from a vengeful India are plainly false/fantasy (perhaps an attempt to keep Pakistan and Afghanistan’s many Tribalistic Sunnis from dwelling on the fact that they are led by a Persian Shiite Ayatollah in far away Tehran).


The claims that you aren't going to do anything don't have to be true or not, but when people see an India with fascist writings and attacks on the Muslim religion (which is stupid because India has the second largest muslim populationin the world) and generally people want revenge after being oppressed for a long time, and the hanging of Khan and most of his government isn't going to slake their thirst for revenge.

Plus, there are democratic elections being held, which will soon lead to the Ayatollah losing power (although the split between Shiite and Sunni in the UIR is actually close than you might think)

Furthermore, I refer you to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Moderniranianlanguagesmap24.PNG

Which shows 3 major ethnic groups centered around Afghanistan, Iran, and Pakistan (and a bit of it moves in on and covers Tajikistan)

Brief notes on Russia:

While rebuilding, the present government remains in place, while a Constitutional Convention is planned, for a restructuring of the Russian government
Russia recognizes and extends diplomatic relations to India, and all US/Canadian successor states
Arms exports (just about anything we have) are available to all nations who fought alongside Russia in the Twilight War, including the US countries, though Quebec, India, and any other nations must ask for permission
Russia views all members of the CSPS who actively participated in this war as equally guilty. By participating in an offensive war, they prolonged the war, increasing the casualties on all sides, and are just as responsible as the Ukraine and Turkey, thus deserving the same punishment.

Brief notes on Russia:

While rebuilding, the present government remains in place, while a Constitutional Convention is planned, for a restructuring of the Russian government
Russia recognizes and extends diplomatic relations to India, and all US/Canadian successor states
Arms exports (just about anything we have) are available to all nations who fought alongside Russia in the Twilight War, including the US countries, though Quebec, India, and any other nations must ask for permission
Russia views all members of the CSPS who actively participated in this war as equally guilty. By participating in an offensive war, they prolonged the war, increasing the casualties on all sides, and are just as responsible as the Ukraine and Turkey, thus deserving the same punishment.


am I allowed to build 2 units of Su-24's?

As Japan or have you taken over as the UIR full time? Japan yes, UIR no.

As Japan or have you taken over as the UIR full time? Japan yes, UIR no.

As the UIR.

Why not? You seem to want to give me some of the CAR's land

only if several players who vetoed you last time have changed their minds

For now, no

My not going to give up. I will keep on doing this even if I never get in. Also can you tell how many vetoed me and how many I actually need?

I'm now vetoing you until you learn grammer. It just makes me want to kill myself when you sound like a troll.

My not going to give up. I will keep on doing this even if I never get in. Also can you tell how many vetoed me and how many I actually need?


Parthini']I'm now vetoing you until you learn grammer.

"Owned, sucka!" ;)

Having said that, no further comment.

New Indochinese Thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=493599

As the UIR.

Why not? You seem to want to give me some of the CAR's land
I've been away while most of this is going on, but I think thats mainly because it's easier to spell UIR than Kyrygyzstan:D . But to answer your question, just like the US keeps the best stuff for themselves in RL, we try to avoid selling our best weapons to nations with a habit of revolution, and the recent death of the Shah isn't comforting. While we have bigger issues at hand (European Russia being devastated) we aren't completely oblivious to the outside world, although minor issues, like the Filipino-Indian squabbling, go unnoticed/uncared about.

Hi, this is Whittlesfield's brother, I would like to join. He's told me this is quite complicated, is there an nation I can take over which is pretty easy to run? I would like a European or African country if possible.

We could use a player to take over the Congo.

France could buy some and station them in the future airbase if the UIR desires...

France could buy some and station them in the future airbase if the UIR desires...

sounds good to me.

And Elephantum, the Ayatollah lost his election so its not like he has anything to gain from this

I'll take Burgundy if that's alright.

Skepta']I'll take Burgundy if that's alright.

information on your NS Roleplaying background is required for acceptance

any puppets used etc

post links in this section

until then, no, its not alright

Skepta']Hi, this is Whittlesfield's brother, I would like to join. He's told me this is quite complicated, is there an nation I can take over which is pretty easy to run? I would like a European or African country if possible.
Is that ok?

Skepta']Is that ok?

get an ok from Sharina

We could use a player to take over the Congo.

I haven't forgotten about your actions Kilani, but I sent you a TG explaining a problem I am having

Parthini']I'm now vetoing you until you learn grammer. It just makes me want to kill myself when you sound like a troll.

Oh this coming from the person who cannot even spell grammar right. Well I'm sorry for my grammar. I don't go over and try to find the mistakes. Also that my grammar is bad because I'm probably the youngest person and not as experienced as the rest of this group.

Considering spelling doesn't fall under grammar, it doesn't matter.

I still remember your battalion of snipers...

Wait it's not? Sorry my grammar sucks so... *Shrugs*

Ok I will admit that I have made mistakes in the past. I know that they were stupid and made me look like a fool.

Wait it's not? Sorry my grammar sucks so... *Shrugs*

special situation with history you are not aware of Sukiaida

Oh ok. Well I'll go debate something else with someone else then. Cause if you haven't vetoed me yet, then it must have been REALLY REALLY Bad.

Amestria, we will discuss arms deals. Contact me on AIM or MSN in my profile.

Amestria, we will discuss arms deals. Contact me on AIM or MSN in my profile.

Don't have that, I will send you a TG.

Seems alot of the European powers are demilitarizing and want to get rid of their stuff. Interesting.

Oh ok. Well I'll go debate something else with someone else then. Cause if you haven't vetoed me yet, then it must have been REALLY REALLY Bad.

Just a word to the wise Sukiaida keep out of this. I have, for a couple months now, tried to get back into E20. The reason I got banned is kind of long and I really don't want to tell anyone.

Which is why I am backing out of it.

Artitsa: TG sent

Which is why I am backing out of it.

Thats for the best. I like what you have done to the Philippines so far. Actually I'm half Filipino. I bet your Philippines is better then it is today.

I'm small and Facists love expanding. And I'm not Hindu. OOH OOH and I'm an ally of UIR. BUt uhhh if we continue this convo lets do it in the base OOC thread so we don't get anyone mad.

OOC: You mean Fascist...

Get this through your head, the Hindu Nationalist Ideology promoted by Indira Ghandi is anti-imperialist and non-expansionist, the Vanara Sena Party considers the later FAS period and the period of the Republic of Pakistan times of Foreign Domination, and it was those expansionist governments (trying to control Central Asia) that caused India so much pain...

Also, I really doubt the Pacific powers, ie Japan, Australia, the West Coast of the former US, China, Southeast Asia, and Russia would appreciate some Southwest Asian country throwing its weight around in their various spheres of influence or that India really has any interests in the Pacific region beyond trade.

But wouldn't putting that through my head hurt? And if a country impedes you trading in that area? What then? I'm not naive enough to think that India wouldn't like the Philippines to just go away.

OH!! And also your country is currently ruled by fanatics. Fanatics are real easy to spread their dogma and try to take over stuff. And Hitler said the same thing, he wasn't Imperialistic or Expansionist. And "This is my last territorial claim."

OOC: You mean Fascist...

Get this through your head, the Hindu Nationalist Ideology promoted by Indira Ghandi is anti-imperialist and non-expansionist, the Vanara Sena Party considers the later FAS period and the period of the Republic of Pakistan times of Foreign Domination, and it was those expansionist governments (trying to control Central Asia) that caused India so much pain...

Also, I really doubt the Pacific powers, ie Japan, Australia, the West Coast of the former US, China, Southeast Asia, and Russia would appreciate some Southwest Asian country throwing its weight around in their various spheres of influence or that India really has any interests in the Pacific region beyond trade.

One of your chapters talks about World Domination, so one of the two is false, world domination or non-expansionism

Also, it's a really bad idea to have 3 different social safety net groups running at the same time. people tend to get very resentful when they see others getting more free stuff

One of your chapters talks about World Domination, so one of the two is false, world domination or non-expansionism

A country can dominate the world without expanding by economics, culture, ideas, est., and no where is conquest mentioned.

The multiple social safety nets meanwhile are eliminated in 1970 when the economy recovers, it is a necessary temporary measure caused by the world situation (a lot has to be built in India and the world economy is in a depression).

And Hitler said the same thing, he wasn't Imperialistic or Expansionist. And "This is my last territorial claim."

Hitler in this timeline is a modernist European architect, Fascism has been restricted to minor countries like Portugal and Greece, so realistically it has yet to lose any legitimacy or get a really bad reputation. Your country taking such a strong dislike to India's Government, which was democratically elected btw, may be somewhat unrealistic…

And if a country impedes you trading in that area?

The Philippines is not the worlds biggest market in Southeast Asia, Indian ships, if they go there, could easily go elsewhere.

The Philippines is not the worlds biggest market in Southeast Asia, Indian ships, if they go there, could easily go elsewhere.

I believe he's referring to the SCT, which Pakistan was a key member of, and which you could've been a key-member of, but your anti-SCT stance has isolated you in Asia.

Uhhh no it's realistic. After only truly being free of foreign rule in 1961 after 400 years of occupation. (1946 we were no longer a US colony, but we were basically the US's little brother and therefore not free of foreign rule.) So another country talking about it's superiority grates on Filipino nerves. They've heard it all before, from the Spainards, from the Americans, and from the Japanese. They're tired of it. And after cowing under those three, India is not going to be a fourth. That's why they are so anti-Indian. Perfectly realistic. India hasn't been trying to win any popularity contests.

ANd Saddam Husuein (Sp) was democratically elected in the real world. That didn't make his country any less a dictatorship. And it doesn't make your India any less a dictatorship under GHandi.

[QUOTE=Amestria]The multiple social safety nets meanwhile are eliminated in 1970 when the economy recovers, it is a necessary temporary measure caused by the world situation (a lot has to be built in India and the world economy is in a depression).
[QUOTE]

All you built were military units, people would be furious at a government that forces them to live in poverty while buys lots of new and expensive weapons

They're tired of it. And after cowing under those three, India is not going to be a fourth. That's why they are so anti-Indian. Perfectly realistic.

That's just silly, India does not care what goes on in the Philippines in the least and the idea that they could somehow conqure the Philippines or would is ridiculous.

ANd Saddam Husuein (Sp) was democratically elected in the real world. That didn't make his country any less a dictatorship. And it doesn't make your India any less a dictatorship under GHandi.

Saddam Husuein is the current President of the Arab Federation in this time line.

All you built were military units, people would be furious at a government that forces them to live in poverty while buys lots of new and expensive weapons

They understand it's because India did not have much of a military after the split with Pakistan (the military having been mostly destroyed in Asia). The Government also worked to expand India's merchent marine.

Sadaam's still a rogue with chemical weapons, not president I believe

Sadaam's still a rogue with chemical weapons, not president I believe

No I asked, he is indeed the President... Those poor people.

It's not conquering. It's the attitude. Ghandi already proved it when she "demanded" an apology from the Filipino President. When you demand something from another country you challenge it's soveirnty. And the UIP has been questioned way too often. (It's had three declarations of Independence.) So the attitude of superiority from the Indians is what bothers them. Remember they've been dealing with China, Korea, and Japan recently. All stronger countries who treat the UIP as an equal. Now India, a new country suddenly challenges them. That reminds them of the Spanish and Americans. It rubs salt into an old wound.

That's also the last rationalizing I'm doing. Whether you think it's unrealistic is just too bad. I've spent months researching Filipino culture, and also have friends who are Filipino giving me advice.

And if INdia doesn't care, why are they trying to get Australasia to put pressure for the UIP to recognize them?

Ayub was better than Yahya, and measures had to be taken to prevent Yahya's supporters from coming back. They would've oppressed everyone, Muslims and Hindus harshly. At least with Ayub, everyone was free.

He still gassed villages and was a Military Muslim from Pakistan...

I know it's too late to change it, but saying that what GB says is law isn't true. I'm the one who's played India for the past year, not GB.

I'm not saying what GB says is law, but in this case your mistake of leaving him Prime Minister even though his parties lost had to be rationalized and General Ayub Khan thus bullied the Parliament into supporting him (being a person who gassed his opponents during the coup his threats would have been taken seriously), thus becaming a hated authoritarian symbol of Muslim domination and Muslim minority rule (even if the Hindu’s got more votes in the legislature and had a President, Khan sill ruled).

And if INdia doesn't care, why are they trying to get Australasia to put pressure for the UIP to recognize them?

Because they can and the Indian Government finds the Philippines annoying. If you see a dog digging in your yard you go and complain to the owners.

He still gassed villages and was a Military Muslim from Pakistan...

Yahya gassed villages and was a military muslim from Pakistan. In fact, Ayub gassed Military Muslim villages, not Hindu villages. Many of Ayubs supporters were in fact Hindus, who wanted to overthrow the hated Yahya Khan.


I'm not saying what GB says is law, but in this case your mistake of leaving him Prime Minister even though his parties lost had to be rationalized and General Ayub Khan thus bullied the Parliament into supporting him (being a person who gassed his opponents during the coup his threats would have been taken seriously), thus becaming a hated authoritarian symbol of Muslim domination and Muslim minority rule (even if the Hindu’s got more votes in the legislature and had a President, Khan sill ruled).

His party didn't loose; it won second place in the Presidential Election, and the second-place because Prime Minister (it's like the VP of Pakistan). Also, Pakistan destroyed its chemical weapons years before the Twilight War, so I'm not sure the opposition had to worry about being gassed.

And that's why India will "never" be recognized by the UIP. THey think of the Philippines as someone elses dog to be dealt with. Personally I'm starting to question whether you yourself aren't a racist Hindu whose doing this for kicks.

Yahya gassed villages and was a military muslim from Pakistan. In fact, Ayub gassed Military Muslim villages, not Hindu villages. Many of Ayubs supporters were in fact Hindus, who wanted to overthrow the hated Yahya Khan.

No one said this time-line is free of irony.

His party didn't loose; it won second place in the Presidential Election, and the second-place because Prime Minister (it's like the VP of Pakistan).

Oh, well, it can be assumed that Khan concentrated power in himself whatever position he had by his military rank and ruled somewhat unofficial in certain cases.

The main enemy is identified as Ayub Khan and his cronies who have continued to keep India an authoritarian state for nearly a generation, subverted the political parties and denied majority rule (the Hindu majority). Since independence governments have waged an ill advised war, attempted to maintain an empire that it lost, and once again is fighting an ill advised and foolish war that is wrecking the Indian economy and placing it in danger of getting into a nuclear confrontation.

Also, Pakistan destroyed its chemical weapons years before the Twilight War, so I'm not sure the opposition had to worry about being gassed.

He tried to nuke them.

He tried to nuke them.

When?

The only time I woulda made Ayub try and use nukes woulda been during the Civil War, when it was a full-scale rebellion. Not when Pakistan was one, united country.

When?

The only time I woulda made Ayub try and use nukes woulda been during the Civil War, when it was a full-scale rebellion. Not when Pakistan was one, united country.

Yes, GB informed me by TG that Khan, as his forces lost control of India and New Deli was falling to the Vanara Sena, ordered the nukes to be taken to certain areas where the rebels were strongest...the military refused to obey the order.

Onto more important things than India's ego, GB, I read from your post that the US did reach the moon? Or was I mistaken? Cause if that's so then which country was it since by that time the US didn't exist anymore. Just curious cause there was a space race, and it kinda got put on the back burner with the whole war thing going on.

Personally I'm starting to question whether you yourself aren't a racist Hindu whose doing this for kicks.

What?!

Its called Role Playing.

And that's why India will "never" be recognized by the UIP. THey think of the Philippines as someone elses dog to be dealt with. Personally I'm starting to question whether you yourself aren't a racist Hindu whose doing this for kicks.

We will not tolerate personal insults of other players. IC insults are fine, but when you extend your IC hatreds to the Real World, that steps beyond the bounds of this Role Play and NationStates itself.

Anyways, Saddam (in RL) never was elected. He assumed power in 79.

Parthini']Anyways, Saddam (in RL) never was elected. He assumed power in 79.

Though at one point he was reelected with around 100% of the vote :rolleyes:

That wasn't an insult. I didn't call her a racist Hindu, I stated that I was starting to question if she was one. That's a legitimate concern because OOC bias can infect an RP and kill it. If it's just Roleplaying on her part, then I compliment her on the seriousness she gives to an RP.

Though at one point he was reelected with around 100% of the vote :rolleyes:

That was like a couple of months before the 2003 invasion so as to "legitimize" his rule.

That's also the last rationalizing I'm doing. Whether you think it's unrealistic is just too bad.

Just to point out when I RPed Albania the Mods had the military overthrow my government because they would and did not like an element of its Foreign Policy...namely that it was not getting along with the more powerful Union. That was pretty extreme, but you get the idea.

I bet diplomats in your country are shaking their heads at the whole diplomatic mess.

Just to point out when I RPed Albania the Mods had the military overthrow my government because they would and did not like an element of its Foreign Policy...namely that it was not getting along with the more powerful Union. That was pretty extreme, but you get the idea.

I bet diplomats in your country are shaking their heads at the whole diplomatic mess.


There were other reasons, so I read

That wasn't an insult. I didn't call her a racist Hindu, I stated that I was starting to question if she was one. That's a legitimate concern because OOC bias can infect an RP and kill it. If it's just Roleplaying on her part, then I compliment her on the seriousness she gives to an RP.

I don't care if you didn't outright insult her. You were on the path and I decided to stop it. Just watch yourself. That goes for everyone. Too much stuff like this is what caused a bunch of people to leave before WWIII.

That wasn't an insult.

Sounded like it, oh well.

I didn't call her a racist Hindu, I stated that I was starting to question if she was one. That's a legitimate concern because OOC bias can infect an RP and kill it. If it's just Roleplaying on her part, then I compliment her on the seriousness she gives to an RP.

No, I am not a racist Hindu, I am not Indian, and personally I have a rather low opinion of the Hindu religion.

Just to point out when I RPed Albania the Mods had the military overthrow my government because they would and did not like an element of its Foreign Policy...namely that it was not getting along with the more powerful Union. That was pretty extreme, but you get the idea.

I bet diplomats in your country are shaking their heads at the whole diplomatic mess.
There were many reasons for that..and I known I was there...but I am not going to dig up bad feelings of the past...lets put it behind us.

Anyways..would it be ok, I can rp as Brazil?

Well culturally the only ones I can think of who see it as a mess are the younger generation and perhaps the Chinese. The Muslim sector is harrahing the UIP government. And the native/SPanish decendents are just paranoid of having someone else try and make them an "economic influence." The Chinese are probably going "Is this influencing us yet? No? Good." Because they're mostly new immigrants and are trying to get assicuated.

Diplomatically the Philippines is the early warning system no one listens to.

And good, cause I've had OOC stuff hurt me before and destroy an RP I put alot of effort into and it was worrying me. And I have no opinion of the Hindu religion one way or the other.

There were other reasons, so I read

I had an emotional breakdown owing to pressures in RL, lets not go there.

There were many reasons for that..and I known I was there...but I am not going to dig up bad feelings of the past...lets put it behind us.

Anyways..would it be ok, I can rp as Brazil?

I thought you were Morocco?

There were many reasons for that..and I known I was there...but I am not going to dig up bad feelings of the past...lets put it behind us.

Anyways..would it be ok, I can rp as Brazil?

I thought you were Morocco?

I had an emotional breakdown owing to pressures in RL, lets not go there.

I don't aim to

lol. Now that's good timing.

I thought you were Morocco?

:p

Parthini']:p

that was weird

Parthini']I thought you were Morocco?
There is very little I can do with Morocco..post the same question by two different players...how werid...

Anyways..would it be ok, I can rp as Brazil?

Brazil is currently an NPC, it helped end the civil war in Portugal, and it has been invited to join the FSN (was did it accept?). Brazils relations with surrounding states I take it would still be somewhat complex given its past as a former member of the Pact (is it still socialist?).

Brazil is currently an NPC, it helped end the civil war in Portugal, and it has been invited to join the FSN (was did it accept?). Brazils relations with surrounding states I take it would still be somewhat complex given its past as a former member of the Pact (is it still socialist?).

it didn't join

That's before my time for sure. Where did SHarina go?

OOC: To save time...

IC: Between from 1965-1967 India establishes Embassies in all countries recognized by the United Nations (except the UIR).

Well except the UIP and UIR I gather. Or did you attempt to set them up there as well? If you did the UIP would allow you to, just when it revoked it's acceptance, it kinda just let the embassy there stay if it desired or leave if it desired. Sort of the apathetic responce. If they even tried.

Well except the UIP and UIR I gather. Or did you attempt to set them up there as well? If you did the UIP would allow you to, just when it revoked it's acceptance, it kinda just let the embassy there stay if it desired or leave if it desired. Sort of the apathetic responce. If they even tried.

I recognized them, I think I have an embassy there

Oh well then it's just me.

tag

tag

want to join?

I recognized them, I think I have an embassy there

We also have struck a deal in 1965 on a de-militerized border, although you have yet to have your government respond to India's request that the Pakistan/Indian border be declared unchangable (it will look rather bad if the UIR does not do that).

We also have struck a deal in 1965 on a de-militerized border, although you have yet to have your government respond to India's request that the Pakistan/Indian border be declared unchangable (it will look rather bad if the UIR does not do that).

pretty sure I already recognized them on the Twighlight War thread

In response to:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11444536&postcount=1249

OOC: When the fuck did this happen?

I hate how you and GB made a series of totally weird events happen in my own country without my consent! Nowhere did I read that Nehru, who was democratically elected and supported the war with Russia, appointed his daughter Prime Minister and died of natural causes in 1965."

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11362583&postcount=394

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11435418&postcount=2

And India is now my country, my control starting July 1964.

Why do you assume that all Hindus were against the war? The elite of Pakistan were all for the war; it wasnt the Hindus who were against the war; it was the poor. Thats why most communists voted against it, but the politicians in the other parties, all being members of the elite, voted for it.

I don't, but the Hindu Nationalists were against it (they never saw any of the FNS/Pakistani conflicts as their wars) and they are now in power. You were warned by GB that there were people in the Hindu population that were against it and many were scared of being involved in a nuclear war, demonstrators and such. When the Pakistani military was wiped out that was it.

I'm the only person who really understands why this war was declared; it was in order for the Pakistani economy to receive a war-time economy boost during the great depression, because without it the economy was falling to pieces fast.

It only wrecked the Pakistani economy even more and resulted in complete defeat and the Hindu Nationalists, who never liked the idea of Pakistan anyway, seized on it.

Thirdly, as you will soon find out, there is a balance between the Military and the People in the Indian subcontinent. The military is, and always has been, a key role in Indian society.

Did play a key role (did being the key word)...the Military had to be rebuilt and now, unlike in the FNS Military, it is Hindu and loyal to the new order.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11362583&postcount=394

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11435418&postcount=2

And India is now my country, my control starting July 1964.



My control of India didn't end until the end of the war, and you are saying that he appointed his own daughter Prime Minister when she started a revolt against his own country? He would rather accept exile than see all his work undone by Hindu radicalists.

Did play a key role (did being the key word)...the Military had to be rebuilt and now, unlike in the FNS Military, it is Hindu and loyal to the new order.

If it doesnt still play a role, why have you sacrificed large swathes of your economy on building up your military and ignoring the social services?

Also, in RL, the Indian military is Hindu, and it sucks up resources that could be used to create a higher quality of life in India. It plays a huge role in RL, it played a huge rule in the past in E20, and with you alienating almost all of Asia, it will continue to play one.

My control of India didn't end until the end of the war, and you are saying that he appointed his own daughter Prime Minister when she started a revolt against his own country? He would rather accept exile than see all his work undone by Hindu radicalists.

Thats what happened, he switched sides, there was nothing he could have done anyway and the leader of the revolt was his own daughter, Khan his political enemy, and Pakistan a failure. It happened, its part of the time-line, it makes sense given the situation, GB ruled, and you are no longer the Indian player (so why are you argueing?).

If it doesnt still play a role, why have you sacrificed large swathes of your economy on building up your military and ignoring the social services?

In this alternative Earth your crazy NOT to have as large and effective a military as possible (you will notice India started out with very little, scratch almost, and had to rebuild).

Also, in RL, the Indian military is Hindu, and it sucks up resources that could be used to create a higher quality of life in India. It plays a huge role in RL, it played a huge rule in the past in E20, and with you alienating almost all of Asia, it will continue to play one.

I'll give you that one... But I have not "alienated almost all of Asia," India has only alienated some of Asia (unavoidable).

People chill out...and its TLS...don't mind him...he is a bit crazy...so that explains it....well it explains alot of things.....

In this alternative Earth your crazy NOT to have as large and effective a military as possible (you will notice India started out with very little, scratch almost, and had to rebuild).

You don't think I know that a large and effective military is needed? Of course I do! I waged a lot of wars, laddie. However, I also had a lot of revolts, because I didn't have enough social spending. It took me level 3 social spending to keep the ethnic troubles under control, and it'll probably take you level 4 to quell Muslim anger (it would've been 3, but your little green book attacks Islam, and your country has the worlds second largest amount of Muslims after the UIR)


I'll give you that one... But I have not "alienated almost all of Asia," India has only alienated some of Asia (unavoidable).

You've alienated yourself from the SCT by attacking the UIR diplomatically, overthrowing Pakistan (which was a key member of the SCT), being angry with the Phillipines, and being so harsh to China. Japan, Korea, and the USEA weren't much affected by your change in gov't, but your Little Green Book is causing a small amount of unrest in Korea, and those countries would have to be crazy if they wanted to piss off their major source (and, incidentally, your major source) of oil. Also, the UIR and Pakistan proved themselves to come to the SCTs aid in times of need, and while Pakistan went on its own ventures, it also did them for the sake of the SCT (with a war economy and in control of the oil fields of Central Asia, Pakistan was going to begin sending large amounts of aid to China, which it couldn't do with a normal budget).

Also, to the question of why I'm so interested in the Indian subcontinent; I've spent 1/3rd of my life there, spent much of my life studying it, and I invested a years worth of work into making India a secular, united nation. Then you come and destroy a years work in a week. You shattered all hopes of a united India ever again in E20 (in RL its bad enough, but in E20 it's like having both sides controlled by radical extremists, instead of having one side controlled by moderate extremists and the other controlled by moderate extremists fighting off the radical extremists).

People chill out...and its TLS...don't mind him...he is a bit crazy...so that explains it....well it explains alot of things.....

Just because I'm crazy doesn't mean I shouldn't be listened to :p

Also, I'm not the one with the irrational fear/hatred of Mormons and Utah.

Also, I'm not the one with the irrational fear/hatred of Mormons and Utah.
So...its irrational fear/hatred..its running gag I tend to us....since this is what if rp..bah

anyways...do I have a go for Brazil?

So...its irrational fear/hatred..its running gag I tend to us....since this is what if rp..bah

anyways...do I have a go for Brazil?

It was a joke :p

anyways...do I have a go for Brazil?

I don't think anyone has a problem with it.

It was a joke :p
I know ;)

and it'll probably take you level 4 to quell Muslim anger (it would've been 3, but your little green book attacks Islam, and your country has the worlds second largest amount of Muslims after the UIR)

We will see how they react in August, when everything officially starts up again.

and I invested a years worth of work into making India a secular, united nation. Then you come and destroy a years work in a week. You shattered all hopes of a united India ever again in E20 (in RL its bad enough, but in E20 it's like having both sides controlled by radical extremists, instead of having one side controlled by moderate extremists and the other controlled by moderate extremists fighting off the radical extremists).

Moderate extremists? Anyway, the E20 United India was a complete an utter disaster. The idea of an India united with Pakistan is dead, gone, a fantom, a memory (a bad one at that), and good riddance. Things might have gone different if you had not had the regimes of the two Khans and that disastrous war with Russia... As for the Hindu Nationalists...well, they took power in India, so...[shrugs].

anyways...do I have a go for Brazil?

As I said earlier it is an NPC so I am sure you will get it as soon as GB comes back online. Better find out if its still Socialist.

Moderate extremists? Anyway, the E20 United India was a complete an utter disaster. The idea of an India united with Pakistan is dead, gone, a fantom, a memory (a bad one at that), and good riddance. Things might have gone different if you had not had the regimes of the two Khans... As for the Hindu Nationalists...well, they took power in India, so...[shrugs].

Mark my words, your Hindu Nationalism is going to loose you Bengal eventually, and even if it doesnt, expect full-scale ethnic riots, just like in real life India, but more often. You could've avoided this by A. not publishing Chapter 10 of the Little Green Book and B. not making Muslims de facto second-class citizens because of it, but you decided to go that way. Now you're going to face all the problems RL India faces, except instead of having a Pakistan weaker than you as your neighbor and having a (mostly) united nation, having a UIR stronger than you as your neighbor and having a divided nation.

Mark my words, your Hindu Nationalism is going to loose you Bengal eventually,

Its called East Bengal, West Bengal is mostly Hindu and has the Capital.

and even if it doesnt, expect full-scale ethnic riots, just like in real life India, but more often. You could've avoided this by A. not publishing Chapter 10 of the Little Green Book and B. not making Muslims de facto second-class citizens because of it, but you decided to go that way.

You act as if I do not know what I'm doing.

Its call East Bengal, West Bengal is mostly Hindu and has the Capital.

Point taken. Stupid mistake on my part ><



You act as if I do not know what I'm doing.

Unless you're trying to get the Muslims angry on purpose, which would be kinda stupid.

Of course, it could have its benefits; East Bengal contributes little and takes up a lot...

Times change, so do attitudes.

The information provided in this post is fairly open to anyone whose national leaders/government officials have paid attention to official Indian speeches, off the cuff remarks by Indian political leaders, and read a selection Indira Ghandi’s many publications (which I assume the UIR leaders at least have done). These are views no one is trying to keep secret.

IC Indian views Concerning Central Asia and United Islamic Republic

India really has no interests in expanding its territory for the very simple reason that the Indira Ghandi government sees no value in controlling Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, or any other part of Central Asia. There are no real benefits and significant costs. When India was part of the British Empire it served as the battle ground by which England contested control of Central Asia with the Union/Soviets and Southeast Asia with China/Japan. After the Third Great War the “Federated Asian States” controlled significant amounts of Central Asia (India having been nuked and hit with bio-weapons for the trouble of taking it from the Union), and how did India benefit from control of all that territory…? The answer, India did not benefit in the least and it found itself marginalized by a Northern based Muslim dominated Government (one a bloody Military Junta, the other a Military Dominated quasi-Republic) and fighting two intense and bloody civil wars. Government shifted to Pakistan, which then during the Twilight War decided to drag India into another thankless conflict purely for reasons of Central Asian territorial ambition…and got clobbered. That was the straw that broke the camels back, providing the incentive and opportunity (the Muslim dominated Military having been splattered across the steppes) and the Vanara Sena/Hindu Nationalists rose up in revolt, lynched Khan, took control of the country, and founded the Republic of India...the rest being history.

The Indian leadership and population feel that they were used…used by former Colonial Powers and Muslim Controlled Northern quasi-Military Governments in various schemes to dominate Central Asia, all to India’s determent (what did the Indian/Hindu population gain? Whatever it was it sure did not offset the cost). So territorial expansion is clearly not one of President/Prime Minister Indira Ghandi’s various agendas...it should be noted that India has not contested or disputed its current border with Pakistan. Besides, India, being a subcontinent and the most populated country on Earth, is difficult enough to manage by itself, imagine when one has to deal with all the various tribes, religions, cultures, and ethnic groups of Central Asia in addition to governing India.

Frankly the Indian Leadership, having seen proxies and States to their north come and go, are rather cynical about the idea of anyone trying to control Central Asia, observing that it is one of the most fluid regions on Earth. They view Central Asia as a source of violence, trouble, and tragedy, a very unstable part of the globe that they have the misfortune of bordering, a place in the popular imagination that invasions and raiders spring from (the history of the attempted Muslim conquest from the North and the Mughal Empire weigh heavily on those Indians with knowledge of history).

So the claims made by the United Islamic Republic in its propaganda statements about it safeguarding Pakistan and Pakistan’s surrounding areas from a vengeful India are plainly false/fantasy (perhaps an attempt to keep Pakistan and Afghanistan’s many Tribalistic Sunnis from dwelling on the fact that they are led by a Persian Shiite Ayatollah in far away Tehran).

Guys, back the fuck off. It's her country now. As long as the mods don't see anythign wrong with it she can play it as she sees fit. If the mods see soemthing wrong with it they will inform her or there will be consequences in game. Stop ragging on her.

Guys, back the fuck off. It's her country now. As long as the mods don't see anythign wrong with it she can play it as she sees fit. If the mods see soemthing wrong with it they will inform her or there will be consequences in game. Stop ragging on her.

Thanks, TG

Amestria, Czech your tgs.

Sent you a reply.

Kilani, Czech tgs too.

http://www.chatzy.com/921930878279

Chatzy link for anyone who needs it.

There were many reasons for that..and I known I was there...but I am not going to dig up bad feelings of the past...lets put it behind us.

Anyways..would it be ok, I can rp as Brazil?

Brazil is ok with me, although I can't honestly remember the last time a build was done for it, I think one was done in the 1950s sometime. I am not in position to look it up, but if you can find it, or if someone would help you find it, its more then ok with me if you take on Brazil.

Brazil as of last time it was played, was centrist to liberal socialist (modern Europe today somewhat) and had a stable elected government. Some investment had occured, but it has spent a lot of the game essentially ignored because all the referees where too busy to mess with it. Last action I had it take was to refuse an offer to join the FNS but seek a trade pact.

About this point it would be at least tech level 7, and I recall, (but could be mistaken) it meeting the condtions to be tech level 7.5 when last played as it was partnered with either the Europeans or Oceanic Alliance as far as getting satellites.

we are in a 1965-1969 fast forward at the moment, with game play beginniing again on August 7, when it will be January 1, 1970, so you have time to get your bearings on events etc.

My take on the discussion between LS and Amestria

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11445084&postcount=1253

My take on the discussion between LS and Amestria

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11445084&postcount=1253

*applause*

GB are you able to get on Chatzy?

Parthini']GB are you able to get on Chatzy?

yes

ooc
no one comments on the Americans landing on the moon on July 19, 1969?

yes

ooc
no one comments on the Americans landing on the moon on July 19, 1969?

OOC; By this point no one really cares. There has been too much damage elesewhere to care.

What about the European Attempt?

What about the European Attempt?
Nope don't care either, we are all too absorbed in our affairs to care.

What about the European Attempt?

Do the Europeans really have the ability to make an attempt? The ESA had two bases, one in Sierra Leone the other at Heligoland, and Heligoland is now a glowing crater along with all the scientists, research facilities exc.

OOC I noticed, IC Ummm the Philippines doesn't pay much attention to the US except in relation to Quebec and the Caribean.

Do the Europeans really have the ability to make an attempt? The ESA had two bases, one in Sierra Leone the other at Heligoland, and Heligoland is now a glowing crater along with all the scientists, research facilities exc.

I rebuilt that immediately and there's some other stuff around. It was mostly a British-German thing, but, granted, a lot of stuff was that, although I have a feeling most of the Moon stuff would be in Britain, considering he was doing all the work towards the Moon.

ooc

It also troubled me as a referee the way that the Indian government since you took it over as had a dedcidedly pro Moslem outlook and has ignored tradional Hindu concerns, and the teachings of Ghandi, which was a far stronger influence historically then we have had in this game. Which is a problem as far as realism goes.

#1: Gandhi didn't play nearly as much of a role in Indian independence, since Jinnah, who was another of the main Indian Indepence people in RL, became THE independence person in RL, and got Independence in 1926, which is way before it did in RL, thus making Gandhi not as well known. His claim to fame was becoming India's first UN member and the founder of the Satyagarha Party, which developed after the collapse of the Congress Party (unfortunatly, Gandhi died shortly after founding it, but Nehru inherited it as his party).

#2: I took a stance where the old order was maintained: Muslims had controlled India for a long time, and they weren't going to give up their power any time soon. However, their political clout was beginning to wane due to the popularity of the Hindu Satyagarha Party and the Secular, semi-pro Hindu Communist party. The Muslim League was strong during the first 20 years of India, but began to loose seats to the Communist and secular, semi-pro Muslim Indian Imperialist Party. If you had bothered to look at Indian presidential elections, you would see that Muslims were way on the decline vote wise.

#3: You say this isn't realistic, but a world where Japan and China are best friends, everyone who's anyone has nuclear weapons, where the United States went crazy and began a nuclear holocaust, where the "indestructable" United States collapsed...

I have to say, along with this things, what I did was realistic enough. I'm sorry if my viewpoint on things is a bit skewed since most of my sources on the History of the Indian Subcontinent come from Brits or Pakistanis, but I tried to create a Secular India where the order of things wasn't broken down in an instant in order to create an India where Muslims are second-class citizens. I got rid of the caste-system, made two official languages in order to unite the people, and tried to create an India where Muslims weren't thrown over the border due to the British who partitioned India and the Hindu Nationalists who were more than happy to slaughter Muslims as they tried to flee over the border, which caused Muslims to slaughter Hindus, which caused the whole Kashmir thing, and fucked up the Indian sub-continent forever.

The Old US does get to the moon after all? Crap. ICly, there are grumblings in Korea, but nobody can really do anything at this point.

How close was the SCT to getting to the moon? The Philippines could possibly cobble together a moon project from the old one.

How close was the SCT to getting to the moon? The Philippines could possibly cobble together a moon project from the old one.

The ASA has the research and materials to Launch a Moon mission, but not the funds. I think it's fifteen points that are needed.
This could be done from the main Hat Yai launch centre as it has since been repaired.

What I really need is for people to TG me a list of their contributions to the ASA from 1965-1969.

OOH!!!! I cut that funding to the SCT. I'm sorry about that. I couldn't afford it during 1965-1969. I re-started it in 1970.

Parthini']I rebuilt that immediately and there's some other stuff around. It was mostly a British-German thing, but, granted, a lot of stuff was that, although I have a feeling most of the Moon stuff would be in Britain, considering he was doing all the work towards the Moon.

Is there a launch facility in Britain? I'm doubting a launch could have taken place in 65 when one of only two launch facilities(And from what I know, the major one, though I could be mistaken) got nuked in December of 64.

Unless you nuked Sierra Leone, then no. We launch from Freetown, while one of the centers is in Heligoland.

DAMN!!!! 0.1%. Only 500 a year? DAMN!!! That is like... tiny. Oh sorry, just looking at the 2003 AIDS/HIV listing for the Philippines. Compared to it's population it's tiny. Whew.

And so is this now a race between Asia and Europe? *Blinks*

And so is this now a race between Asia and Europe? *Blinks*

You just noticed? :)

Yes I just noticed.

France, to the war room!

War again? Jeez didn't we just get through one of those?

GB, have you finished the South African Build and Czech your tgs.

Parthini']GB, have you finished the South African Build and Czech your tgs.

South Africa 1964 -70
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11449789&postcount=92

exports considerable food, and gets to tech level 8 by 1969

What can I do that will show all of you, mostly the few people who still remeber what I did, that I have changed from those days?

Does the ASA have an Improved COmmunication Sattelite Network? If so than I already took care of that as a paying member.

Satellite networks only cover 200 million people...

So build it myself for myself then. And my Satellite Network covers me pretty well then. My launch site took no damage at all.

Parthini']France, to the war room!

Bumpage

Now I'm begging for all of you to let me into E20 again. I know I have done some stupid stuff, but I'm just asking for a chance to change all of that. If you let me in you can assign any country you want to me.

How does Andorra sound?

That would sound ok. Wait I thought Andorra was ruled by two guys. One from France and another from Spain. I wouldn't complain. Heck I would even take a rebel group trying to topple the ground.

Despite the fact you'd never progress...

Parthini']Satellite networks only cover 200 million people...

WTF!

That is just stupid, so a region like Siberia would need less than one while China which is roughly the same size would need at least three!

Satellite network coverage is not based on population! It's based on area. One network would be able to cover a set area no matter how many people live there.

Pretty sure satellite networks are based on how much communication can take place between them. It's not hard to have a satellite move across the sky of a country but its difficult for a group of satellites that normally power Western Europe to power China, which would use 3 times as much.

Parthini']Pretty sure satellite networks are based on how much communication can take place between them. It's not hard to have a satellite move across the sky of a country but its difficult for a group of satellites that normally power Western Europe to power China, which would use 3 times as much.

It seems that comunication satellites would be based on people, and ones for taking pictures of land would be on land area

It seems that comunication satellites would be based on people, and ones for taking pictures of land would be on land area

No.
Communications satellites are based on area.
How else do you think you can just get a satellite dish, strap it to the side of your house and pick up signals.
If it worked based on population (Or more technically amount of recievers) they might well have to launch a new satellite just so you can pick up a signal!

Satellite coverage should be based on area, and since thats going to be difficult to apply to our system, how much a satellite network for a nation or group of nations will cost should be decided individually case by case by a mod.

No.
Communications satellites are based on area.
How else do you think you can just get a satellite dish, strap it to the side of your house and pick up signals.
If it worked based on population (Or more technically amount of recievers) they might well have to launch a new satellite just so you can pick up a signal!

Satellite coverage should be based on area, and since thats going to be difficult to apply to our system, how much a satellite network for a nation or group of nations will cost should be decided individually case by case by a mod.

it was simpler that way to figure it at the time which is why I picked a population cap based on customers served (essentially bandwidth limits)
the actual satellites are spaced out over an area, and aren't just one satellite but a network

it was simpler that way to figure it at the time which is why I picked a population cap based on customers served (essentially bandwidth limits)
the actual satellites are spaced out over an area, and aren't just one satellite but a network

I still think it's stupid, it would cost around 30-36 point to cover the whole of the SCT, that is just plain stupid.
Bandwith limits don't mean shit, if you have a bandwith limit you don't put up more satellites, you make better ones!

I though Bandwidth limit was the difference between basic and improved comms satellites, being the reason for more trade as more transactions etc. could take place quicker.
The stupid and completely arbitary rule doens't make sense whatsoever.

GB, did you get my TG I sent?

I sent 1 too, GB

Something came up so I might not be able to return online until Sunday or Monday.

This pisses me off somewhat because I'll have so much to read up / catch up on. (pulls hair out in frustration) Damn beach cottage and no internet access there. :(

Something came up so I might not be able to return online until Sunday or Monday.

This pisses me off somewhat because I'll have so much to read up / catch up on. (pulls hair out in frustration) Damn beach cottage and no internet access there. :(

get my TG?

I still think it's stupid, it would cost around 30-36 point to cover the whole of the SCT, that is just plain stupid.
Bandwith limits don't mean shit, if you have a bandwith limit you don't put up more satellites, you make better ones!..

sure you do... when your tech level increases.. Digital communications satellites will be available soon, after I post them. Tech Level 8 Digital satellites have much more capability while remaining as reliable or more so then tech level 7.5 satellites AND are even smaller and cheaper to lauch.

Consider when CNN came along.. in the early 1980s, when it was possible to report the news globally because of relatively portable satellite uplink systems. When in other words, the US was at Tech level 8


I though Bandwidth limit was the difference between basic and improved comms satellites, being the reason for more trade as more transactions etc. could take place quicker..

Tech level 7.5 satellites are much smaller and more reliable then tech level 7 satellites, which makes them cheaper and more effective. But it doesn't increase their capability. They are still simple digital/analog systems with great big transisters and vacuem tubes.

The stupid and completely arbitary rule doens't make sense whatsoever..

Its only arbitrary because you don't like it

sure you do... when your tech level increases.. Digital communications satellites will be available soon, after I post them. Tech Level 8 Digital satellites have much more capability while remaining as reliable or more so then tech level 7.5 satellites AND are even smaller and cheaper to lauch.

Still doesn't make sense


Consider when CNN came along.. in the early 1980s, when it was possible to report the news globally because of relatively portable satellite uplink systems. When in other words, the US was at Tech level 8

Okay....


Tech level 7.5 satellites are much smaller and more reliable then tech level 7 satellites, which makes them cheaper and more effective. But it doesn't increase their capability. They are still simple digital/analog systems with great big transisters and vacuem tubes.

I relent, I suppose I'll just spend the 30+ points to get one to cover the whole SCT.....
Wait a second I thought you said the Tech level 7.5 ones were cheaper.... their not..


Its only arbitrary because you don't like it

So true.

speaking of satellites, new ones posted in the Space Thread

No.
Communications satellites are based on area.
How else do you think you can just get a satellite dish, strap it to the side of your house and pick up signals.
If it worked based on population (Or more technically amount of recievers) they might well have to launch a new satellite just so you can pick up a signal!

Satellite coverage should be based on area, and since thats going to be difficult to apply to our system, how much a satellite network for a nation or group of nations will cost should be decided individually case by case by a mod.

Sattelite coverage is based on both, area and people.

It is based on area, but a satellite can only carry so much communication(Hence why there are multiple sattleites over the same area). So while it is based on area somewhat, a sattelite can only take so much. It is a mix between population and area, a satellite has to be over a certain area to service it, but say a sattellite can only handle 20 million signals or whatever, and their are 40 million people, even if it can cover a large enough area to get all 40 million people, you would still need a 2nd sattelite cause the first one didn't have the ability to carry that much of a workload by itelf.

Hope I made sense...

OOC: I would say Bangladesh gaining independence in 1980 would be reasonable, and under far-better circumstances than in RL (no bloody genocidal civil war, peaceful separation, with Bangladesh being a key Indian ally.)

We will see what happens, although such a scenario is fairly likely.

I'm going on vacation to my Uncles house for this weekend, so I may or may not be able to use E20 and NS.

Despite the fact you'd never progress...

How would you know?

Because as Andorra that would be impossible.

knock of the bickering please

incidently, Canadstein, you convince people like Parthini, Sharina, Ato Sara, Artitsa, Malkyer, Lesser Ribenia and Safehaven2 to let you in and I will be ok with it. But don't post and TG us constantly. Thats one of the several reasons we didn't let you in last time.

Wow did I return to some bickering. So what do we do now?

I haven't TG'ed anybody so I don't know what your talking about. I know the reasons, so I will leave you alone and stop posting until another time comes. Anyway it would be next to impossible to convince all those people. There will be always a stubborn one.

In the immortal words of General Douglas MacArthur.

"I shall return!"

One day I will return to try to rejoin E20.

Although incidently, General Douglas MacArthur was described mostly as an arrogant jerk by those who served under him.

He did push back the Japanese though.

Heh... Dougie... not many presidents liked him either... heh heh...

Truman is the one who didn't like MacArthur at all, but he was one of the greatest generals America has produced. He kept to his word and came back to the Philippines.

Didn't he want to nuke China in the Korean War? If so, he had the right idea.

Macarthur's problem was that he fell in love with his own legend.

Unfortunate note:
I will likely be without internet access until the 12th. I will try to finish builds until 1970 today, but if I cannot, I would ask GB or someone else to continue from where I leave off. Russia's most pressing concerns right now are domestic rebuilding and restructuring. Things like the annexation of Chad, UIR-India bickering, and whatnot are really not important. Russia's major foriegn policies at the moment are stressing ties with European powers (that helped in the Twilight War), and US nations. Any alliance involving any of those (NATO or something) would be a top priority. Russia takes UN security council reform as a top priority, and desparately wants a permanent seat, but is willing to compromise (see thread for details). If a mod, or other experienced nation (preferably not Safehaven or someone else with animosity towards me) would handle minor details along the way that would be great.

Anything minor (it can wait until I return), post in the Russian news thread. I'll get to it (and the new face of Russia's government) when I return. If it is urgent, then please have whoever would do NPC reactions for said topic rule on Russia.

ooc: Another speech (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11435500#post11435500) by India's Leader, Indira Ghandi. I have edited on to one of my earlier posts, but I'm putting it here so people will notice.


Maha Kumbh Mela, the City of Prayag (Allahabad), Magha (January/February), 1967

In 1967 Maha Kumbh Mela, held every twelve year cycle, begins in Prayag (Allahabad) and millions of pilgrims from throughout India (and the Hindu world community) congregate. Among them is President/Prime Minister Indira Ghandi herself, protected by Intelligence Bureau Agents and an entire Infantry Division.

The President/Prime Minister is shown on State controlled Television taking part in religious discussions, leading devotional singing, personally feeding holy men and women, as well as the poor, whom she is shown comforting, and those she is comforting are in turn shown thanking heaven that India has such as wise, benevolent, and kind leader. Everywhere she goes she is followed by thousands of Vanara Sena members all chanting her name with non-stop enthusiasm “Gandhi, Gandhi, Gandhi, Gandhi, Gandhi.” Throughout it all Gandhi waves away the praise and attention, claiming she is just doing her job. The President/Prime Minister also gives speeches at religious assemblies where doctrines are debated and standardized.

The following is an excerpt from one of Gandhi’s speeches.

“Thousands of years ago gods and demons made a temporary agreement to work together churning amrita (the nectar of immortality) from the Ksheera Sagara (primordial ocean of milk), and to share the nectar equally. However, when the Kumbh (urn) containing the amrita appeared, the demons ran away with it and were chased by the gods. For twelve days and twelve nights the gods and demons fought in the sky for possession of this pot of amrita. It is said that during the battle, drops of amrita fell at four places: Prayag, Haridwar, Ujjain and Nashik. Thus we observe at these four locations where the nectar fell. At these places the elixir continues to fall from heaven to earth. I repeat what everyone here doubtlessly knows so that I may expand my thoughts on Hindu Nationalism at this most Holy Time.”

“As our ancient recorded history proves, in this world, things are complicated and are decided by many factors. We should look at problems from different aspects, not from just one. Only those who are subjective, one-sided and superficial in their approach to problems will smugly issue orders or directives the moment they arrive on the scene, without considering the circumstances, without viewing things in their totality (their Cultural History and their present state as a whole) and without getting to the essence of things (their nature and the cultural relation between one thing and another). Such people are bound to trip and fall.”

“Things develop ceaselessly. It has been only since the start of [insert relevant century using the Hindu lunar calendar, 20th Century using the Western Gregorian calendar] and only three years since the Revolution, but the face of India has completely changed. In another thirty four years, that is, in the year 6002 (2001 AD), or the beginning of the 60th century, India will have undergone an even greater change. She will have become a powerful Nationalist Country once again in touch with itself, its culture. And that is as it should be. India is a land with an area of 3,287,590 square kilometers and a population of over 400 million people, and she ought to have made a greater contribution to humanity during this time. Her contribution over a long period has been far too small. For this we are regretful and shall soon correct.”
“But we must be modest - not only now, but thirty four years hence as well. We should always be modest. In our international relations, we Indian people should get rid of great-power chauvinism resolutely, thoroughly, wholly and completely. We must never adopt an arrogant attitude of great-power chauvinism and become conceited because of the victory of our revolution and certain achievements in our construction. Every nation, big or small, has its strong and weak points.”

“War, this monster of mutual slaughter among peoples, will never be eliminated by the progress of human society, which is why the Indian people must continue to bare sacrifices for the creation of a proper defensive force. Our country and all the other civilized countries want peace; so do the peoples of all the civilized countries of the world. The only ones who crave war and do not want peace are certain perverse hateful ideologues in a handful of imperialist countries which depend on perpetual aggression and expansion for their power, the late General Yahya Khan of the Federation of Asian States and the late General Ayub Khan of the Republic Pakistan for instance…men from the former imperialist country of Pakistan, which had enslaved India through terror and sham democracy… They fought disastrous wars in Central Asia, yet they could not govern or control the areas they conquered, those [I]conquered territories rebelled and fell away, yet the futile wars of expansion continued. Make trouble, fail, make trouble again, fail again . . . till their doom- that is the logic of all imperialists the world over.”

“As for those violent ideological imperialist countries, we should unite with their peoples and strive to coexist peacefully with those countries, do business with them and prevent any possible war, but under no circumstances should we harbor any unrealistic notions about them, view them as any less then dangerous savages who would enslave us if given the chance. Just because we have won a great victory, we must never relax our vigilance against the frenzied plots for revenge by the imperialists. Whoever relaxes their vigilance will disarm themselves politically, militarily, and land themselves in a passive position from which there will be no escape.”

“The world is progressing but the future is dark and no one can change this general trend of history. Yet do not let this shake your confidence in India’s eventual victory. India, unlike most countries, is capable of escaping this dark future if we all work together as one people, as one culture.”

“The new social system has only just been established and requires time for its consolidation. It must not be assumed that the new system can be completely consolidated the moment it is established, for that is impossible. It has to be consolidated step by step. To achieve its ultimate consolidation, it is necessary not only to bring about the cultural unification of the country and persevere in the Hindu Nationalist Revolution, but to carry on constant and arduous social revolutionary struggles and Hindu Nationalist education on all the necessary fronts. Moreover, various contributory international factors are required. All of which will take time, we can only do so much as we struggle to recover from the impoverishment Pakistan inflicted upon us. Patience is a virtue and it is required of the Indian people. In India the struggle to consolidate the Hindu Nationalist system, the struggle to decide whether Hindu Nationalism or backwardness will prevail, will still take a long historical period. But we should all realize that the new system of Hindu Nationalism will unquestionably be consolidated, it is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when.”

“We must however never adopt an arrogant attitude of great-power chauvinism and become conceited because of the victory of our revolution and certain achievements in our construction. Every nation, big or small, has its strong and weak points. Even if we achieve gigantic successes in our work, there is no reason whatsoever to feel conceited and arrogant. Modesty helps one to go forward, whereas conceit makes one lag behind. This is a truth we must always bear in mind. Although one must be careful to distinguish proper humility from an Anti-Nationalistic lack of justified pride. An Anti-Nationalistic lack of justified pride leads to a person feeling rootless and causes the person to start being divisive, which harms the Indian People as a whole. It is important for Indians to show proper humility and justified pride.”

******

The highest spiritual merit is attached to bathing in the Ganges River on the new moon day, when Jupiter is in Taurus and both the Sun and Moon are in Capricorn, and Indira Ghandi, protected by her military/Intelligence Bureau bodyguards and accompanied by hundreds of Vanara Sena Party members, did just that (the event being broadcast on State Controlled Television). Gandhi also immersed the ashes of her father in the waters of the Ganga so as to bring about the remission of his sin of working with the Pakistani’s and allow his soul to attain salvation in heaven.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11458863#post11458863

Didn't he want to nuke China in the Korean War? If so, he had the right idea.

To which the Chinese general replied, "what's a few million?"

Just a quick question, whens Libya going to be its own nation?

Just a quick question, whens Libya going to be its own nation?

Eritrea and Somalia as well.

Aren't they client states like Slovenia?

Several players have sent me TGs concerning secret plans they have.


As I will be gone for the next few days starting Monday morning, I would suggest you put it all together, including points you are spending, any allocation as far as years that you want, desired goals, and the risks you are willing to run into one page

an email it to me at
anthryax@yahoo.com

as my TG box runneth over again

I have a bad feeling about this....

SCT fellows read my latest post on the ScT chatzy

Also, becuase of space issues, you may e-mail me at: theUIR@netscape.net

[OOC: Things going on in Nigeria...]

In 1968 Yakubu Gowon, an ex-General, is elected President of Nigeria. After the ensuing Cameroon incident, he manages to get several reforms through parliament. In them it stipulates that money earned from Nigerian oil will be used for education and be handled by a nuetral third party so as to avoid corruption.

He also begins a series of anti-corruption campaigns, trying to avoid ethnic tensions. Other measures include massive education efforts and cultural integration programs.

Also passed in '68 is a law requiring all people aged eighteen to twenty-five to serve two years in the military or doing some other public work, usually alongside people from different cultural background.

In addition, a trade agreement is signed with India. [OOC: More on this later...]

In the meantime, Aguiyi-Ironsi, leader of the '64 coup has been made Chief of Staff of the new presidential regime. This probably stems from Gowon's service under him in previous years.

Abuja, Nigeria, April, 1968

In Nigeria’s capital talks are held involving President Yakubu Gowon, Chief of Staff Aguiyi-Ironsi and several notable high ranking Indian Cabinet Ministers from the Indian Republic. Present was the Indian Minister of External Affairs, the Minister of Power, the Minister of Commerce & Industry, the Minister of Heavy Industries & Public Enterprises, and the Minister of Atomic Energy.

Much was cheerfully discussed between the two parties, with an essay written by Indira Ghandi praising Yakubu Gowon for his “great leadership” and his government’s “tireless and successful efforts to return Nigeria to its former state of greatness before the Western Powers reduced it to poverty in the name of civilization” read aloud, President Gowon in return praising President Gandhi’s “exceptional intellect and foresight,” and the two sides signing a trade agreement, the Indian-Nigerian Trade Agreement, allowing for increased commerce between the two states and providing the Indian Republic with the materials necessary to build a civilian nuclear reactor in Madras in 1970. In return the Indian government agreed to pay back half the cost at 2 production points every year for 12 years.

Abuja, Nigeria, April, 1968

In Nigeria’s capital talks are held involving President Yakubu Gowon, Chief of Staff Aguiyi-Ironsi and several notable high ranking Indian Cabinet Ministers from the Indian Republic. Present was the Indian Minister of External Affairs, the Minister of Power, the Minister of Commerce & Industry, the Minister of Heavy Industries & Public Enterprises, and the Minister of Atomic Energy.

Much was cheerfully discussed between the two parties, with an essay written by Indira Ghandi praising Yakubu Gowon for his “great leadership” and his government’s “tireless and successful efforts to return Nigeria to its former state of greatness before the Western Powers reduced it to poverty in the name of civilization” read aloud, President Gowon in return praising President Gandhi’s “exceptional intellect and foresight,” and the two sides signing a trade agreement, the Indian-Nigerian Trade Agreement, allowing for increased commerce between the two states and providing the Indian Republic with the materials necessary to build a civilian nuclear reactor in Madras in 1970. In return the Indian government agreed to pay back half the cost at 2 production points every year for 12 years.

OOC: because they can't afford to build it themselves...

I think GB still needs to determine who gets what resources between India and Pakistan, and what happened with the 9 units of Mustard Gas(I'd assume I'd at least have the technology for it).

OOC: because they can't afford to build it themselves...

What's your point? 8)

What's your point? 8)

other than they're poor and have to rely on you for trivial things like this? I guess none not counting those reasons.

I think GB still needs to determine who gets what resources between India and Pakistan, and what happened with the 9 units of Mustard Gas(I'd assume I'd at least have the technology for it).

30% ended up in UIR territory, remainder in Indian territory

30% ended up in UIR territory, remainder in Indian territory

so I get 3 Mustard gas units, 1 Oil, 2 Coal? I need to check Amestria's threa

EDIT- originally was:

12 Coal
Oil-2
Natural Gas- 1
Hydroelectric- 1

where would oil and natural gas be in the country for me to get? Also, what resources do I get from the central asian nations

so I get 3 Mustard gar units, 1 oil, 2 Coal? I need to check Amestria's thread

Actually all of the oil and coal is in India proper

geology wasn't kind to Pakistan in that department

other than they're poor and have to rely on you for trivial things like this? I guess none not counting those reasons.

I think of it as helping a friend get on it's feet.

Actually all of the oil and coal is in India proper

geology wasn't kind to Pakistan in that department


Pwnt.

Actually all of the oil and coal is in India proper

geology wasn't kind to Pakistan in that department

So i get 3 Mustard Gas batches, 1 Hydro, 1 Natural Gas?

Okay, I've caught up (I think) so I should be ready to resume my duties and everything now.

Am I to take it that GB's vacation started this weekend (no internet access for him) until next week?

Yes I believe GB's vacation has started.

So i get 3 Mustard Gas batches, 1 Hydro, 1 Natural Gas?

yes

Sharina, my vacation starts tomorrow... please edit the first page by the way to show the new economic thread, plus the North American thread

by the way Sharina, Tibet is declaring independence again

someone poured some points into it while China was dealing with other problems.

yes

Sharina, my vacation starts tomorrow... please edit the first page by the way to show the new economic thread, plus the North American thread

I think they've been handled

yes

Sharina, my vacation starts tomorrow... please edit the first page by the way to show the new economic thread, plus the North American thread

I fixed the economic linky, but I don't have the linky to the North American thread.

ooc
as Hansaetic has taken over the UIR, Japan is now a NPC

IC
Japan is troubled by the events of the last decade. An arms race once again led to disaster, and only through apparent blessings of the Gods did Japan escape the catastrophe suffered by China and the USEA. As it was Japan suffered heavily. Nearly 2 million old and young died prematuraly due to radiation sickness, cancer and chronic health conditions worsened by the Nuclear Autumn, food rationing and fall out from China from 1964-69. The Europeans nearly blew themselves to pieces as well.

The military way was not the answer it seemed. It hadn't worked during the 2nd Great War, it worked disastrously during the 3rd Great War as the Americans and Australians conquered Japan after destroying the navy, and once again the military hadnt prevent Japan suffering sorely during the Twilight War.

The Zaibatsu meet during 1964 and 1965 and decide there must be a better way. The Chinese way brought disaster, the Union way was even worse, and even the American and Western Way hand't worked for those nations.

There must now be a Japanese Way.

ooc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaibatsu

In 1969, the Japanese government, which over the last 4 years has been brought to heel by the Zabatsu as they bring down the pro military people one by one either through election or scandel has changed.

With that change Japanese policy has changed.

The Japanese government announces on July 1, 1969 that it would be withdrawing from the military portions of the SCT Alliance, but was williing to continue trade agreements. Space exploration would be considered seperately.

The Japanese government also approaches the Russian, Columbian and FNS governments, as well as the governments it is already in talks with (Australia and the Philippines), as well as Malaysia, Indonesia, and India, regarding trade agreements, as if needed, economic aid.

(ooc seriously, the Japanese could be doing a lot better and they haven't won a war since 1905. Being nuked changed their history in RL, and in this RP, they got conquered, ruled by the Americans, and then suffered damage because their ally got nuked. So a Japanese Way fits them culturally and they could be a lot richer then they are. Settling for second place behind China doesn't suit the Japanese realistically either).

Best selling song in North America, Europe, the UK and Australasia in the 1960s

http://discographies.murashev.com/song.php?song=9136

Ev'rybody's talking about
Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism
This-ism, that-ism, is-m, is-m, is-m.

All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance

C'mon
Ev'rybody's talking about Ministers,
Sinisters, Banisters and canisters
Bishops and Fishops and Rabbis and Pop eyes,
And bye bye, bye byes.

All we are saying is give peace a chance

by John Lennon
(in this universe, still with the Beetles at this point)

second best selling song

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religon too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
In a brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say i'm a dreamer
But i'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

also by John Lennon

Bogotá, FNS, February 1968

A series of diplomatic talks are held between the various Presidents and Ministers of the FNS and a delegation led by UN delegate Vijaya Lakshmi Pandit, Indira Ghandi’s sister, which includs several prominent Indian Cabinet officials, including the Minister of Trade, the Minister of External Affairs, and the Minister of Commerce and Industry. At this cordial meeting the South American-Indian Subcontinent Friendship and Trade Agreement is signed between the two Governments.


Summery of the South American-Indian Subcontinent Friendship and Trade Agreement

The FNS and Republic of India agree to measures encouraging commerce, trade, and mutual private sector investment in each others economies. India pledges to work to recruit additional nations of or in close proximity to the Indian subcontinent into the Agreement.

The Agreement establishes a mutual trade and defense pact between the Republic of India and the Federation of South American Nations. Both States in the Agreement pledge to come to the defense of the other in the event of an attack upon one of the signatories by an aggressor as well as to help preserve each others sovereignty and independence.

The FNS states that the border between India and United Islamic Republic controlled Pakistan is final and any violation of that sovereign and demilitarized border by the UIR will mean the FNS immediately coming to India’s aid in repelling that violation.

(1970, Stupid wacky time warp)

At the Kyoto Conference on the future of the alliances in East Asia, Indochina announces that the SCT will be no more from this point onwards, it will be broken down into it's constiuent parts.


Replacing the SCT's economic section will be similarly named Seoul Economic Goup (SEG), It will also encompass the Asian Economic Fund (AEF). The presidency of the SCG would rotate around the member nations, changing each year.
(The SEG would keep the original SCT flag)

The ASA will be made fully independant and civillian, military research and space items such as spy satellites will have to be funded and researched seperately by the member nations, though Launch facilities for them will be availible. The ASA would keep ties with the Seoul Economic Group but have to ties with Asian Treaty Organization.


Replacing the military wing will be the Asian Treaty Organization, which will change from it's original purpose as a militarist arm of a power bloc to a mutual defence organization.
The Asian Treaty Organization will retain the Joint Asian Inteligence Council (JAIC) which shares intelligence among member nations (assuming they want to share that is).
The Asian Treaty Organization would be neutral to any conflict outside of Asia and of those within Asia would only require it's members to provide asistance if a country can be proved to have been attacked first by the agressor.
In a dispute between two member nations the Asian Treaty Organization would try to mediate between the two to reach a desicion upon which both agree.
If unrest, war or natural disaster causes hardship within a country, they can ask the Asian Treaty Organization to supply Neutral Peacekeepers. Member nations would be obliged to provide aid or military units to further peace keeping efforts.
The Asian Treaty Organization would be a mutual defence organization only and as such members would be free to make alliances outside of Asia at any point.
The Asian Treaty organization would have a council made up of three elected members, which ultimately decides on what course of action should be taken if there is a tied vote betwen the Asian Treaty Organization memebers.
The council is changed every three years.
There would be no research exchange or research sharing obligations what so ever.
It is hoped these measures will bring peace and stability to an Asia where tensions have been rapidly rising.

All Asian and Oceanian countries would be invited to the organizations listed above including Russia in an obervers role if it whishes.
(India will also be invited, mainly because Indochina sympathises with India IC, no matter what is said OOC, and for this to work most of Asia needs to join)

I disposed of my Mustard Gas a long time ago.

:( heh sorry about this guys. i have moved ship to earth V. I just dont understand the schematics of this Earth.

Bogotá, FNS, February 1968

A series of diplomatic talks are held between the various Presidents and Ministers of the FNS and a delegation led by UN delegate Vijaya Lakshmi Pandit, Indira Ghandi’s sister, which includs several prominent Indian Cabinet officials, including the Minister of Trade, the Minister of External Affairs, and the Minister of Commerce and Industry. At this cordial meeting the South American-Indian Subcontinent Friendship and Trade Agreement is signed between the two Governments.


Summery of the South American-Indian Subcontinent Friendship and Trade Agreement

The FNS and Republic of India agree to measures encouraging commerce, trade, and mutual private sector investment in each others economies. India pledges to work to recruit additional nations of or in close proximity to the Indian subcontinent into the Agreement.

The Agreement establishes a mutual trade and defense pact between the Republic of India and the Federation of South American Nations. Both States in the Agreement pledge to come to the defense of the other in the event of an attack upon one of the signatories by an aggressor as well as to help preserve each others sovereignty and independence.

The FNS states that the border between India and United Islamic Republic controlled Pakistan is final and any violation of that sovereign and demilitarized border by the UIR will mean the FNS immediately coming to India’s aid in repelling that violation.

Usually the FNS player announces their decisions, especially with something like this

Usually the FNS player announces their decisions, especially with something like this

ooc: He reviewed it by TG and then said it was fine if I posted it for him to save time.

Just got back from a hellish 23.5 hour coach journey to the continent looking after part of a scout group. Have managed to post my builds and will work on my NPCs tomorrow. My military is updated for the end of 1970 (which I haven't posted economically yet so that's a little ahead of the rest).

For now I need sleep, and if someone (modwise) could resolve the issue with the ESA missions I have funded (success levels etc) then i'd be grateful.

Cheers.

I am back, will read up on things on Friday

The UIR has enacted several reforms to encourage more children per family. The reforms include the outlawing of abotion with special circumstances allowed, the banning of contraceptives, and tax breaks for families with more than 6 children

OOC: NO! YOU IDIOT! YOUR POPULATION IS FINE! YOU DON'T NEED ANY MORE!

*cry*

Why are you destroying your country....why....

OOC: Speaking of destruction--don't blow up the planet while I'm gone next week, I'll be at drama camp with no computer access....

OOC: NO! YOU IDIOT! YOUR POPULATION IS FINE! YOU DON'T NEED ANY MORE!

*cry*

Why are you destroying your country....why....

The population probably won't grow by a lot anyway, it's just a traditional governments way on trying to do this, but I won't figure a lot more people into the statistics (this might be more prevalent later on as a larger amount of people turn old and need pensions and stuff, and the govt. would want more people working to make up for the fact)

Most of these things (outlawing of abortion, limiting of contraceptives) would have been enacted anyway by a religious society

EDIT- check my N/D thread, things have been changed partially becuase I discovered I had a much bigger population than I orignally believed I did

OOC: Speaking of destruction--don't blow up the planet while I'm gone next week, I'll be at drama camp with no computer access....

hmm, no asteriods the size of Texas then

Okay, switching over to Japan (amazing... I'm not a 3rd world country anymore!):D

Okay, switching over to Japan (amazing... I'm not a 3rd world country anymore!):D

wait until 1971 to become Japan.. I have to do its builds to reflect changes, and you will be able to take over beginning then

hmm, no asteriods the size of Texas then

Meh. Give Michael Bay and Jerry Bruckheimer $30 million to their E20 selves and they could STILL whip one up :D. With a killer soundtrack (the only good thing about it).

wait until 1971 to become Japan.. I have to do its builds to reflect changes, and you will be able to take over beginning then

I handled their builds up to 1971, it's in the economy thread

I handled their builds up to 1971, it's in the economy thread

except Japan took a different path and I want their builds to reflect that

except Japan took a different path and I want their builds to reflect that

Are you going to remove any of the ASA funding?

Because Japan has been the bigest contributor to the ASA in the after war years.
Thats is why the headquarters is in Tokyo.

The first ASA astronaut to step on the moon was Japanese too.
Two of the planned Lan Feng Orbiters are named after Japanese things places (Fuji and Mogami)

yea its especially akward seeing as the conference to remake the SCT was in Kyoto...

EDIT- Is chatzy down for anyone else?

yea its especially akward seeing as the conference to remake the SCT was in Kyoto...

EDIT- Is chatzy down for anyone else?

Yup Chatzy is dead.

Hey did you see my thing about the future ASA stuff?

Yup Chatzy is dead.

Hey did you see my thing about the future ASA stuff?

yea, looks pretty good, and you can expect aid when the conflict ends, in loads

yea, looks prett good, and you can expect aid when the conflict ends, in loads

Has the UIR given any funding in between '65 and '71?

Has the UIR given any funding in between '65 and '71?

7 points in 1965 I think

except Japan took a different path and I want their builds to reflect that

I can save you time and do it myself. The only changes I can see needed are taking away funding for the NeoSCT.

I can save you time and do it myself. The only changes I can see needed are taking away funding for the NeoSCT.

Japan isn't giving funding to the ATO (:p)

It is giving funding to the ASA, which it practically owns as it rebuilt most of it during the depression after the Twilight war.

My time on here is going to be erratic for a while as it has been this week. Triples(We go from 7 to 4) started this week so I'm either at practice or resting from it.


Anyway, I am switching from the SU to Columbia, though i'll wrap up anything that needs done witht he SU first.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11501810#post11501810

ATO thread

Just a heads up...

When we resume gameplay, keep in mind, there's a new system in China, modeled after Confucianism, and several ideas such as meritocracy, decentralization (The whole "The less a King does, the more the nation can do" thing), and authoritarianism, legitimism, paternalism and submission to authority used as political tools to rule China.

In addition, China is introducing state-run and state-sponsored propganda, mostly to drown out any foreign media that may paint China in a negative light. In addition, the new China will incorporate subconscious control. What I mean by this is using embedded audio and visual messages within media and propganda to alter the people minds on the subconscious level, making them love things, become averse to certain actions, or become fanatical about certain missions (like destroying enemies).

The New China will be called "Nova China" and led by President Heng Ming. Elections will continue, but be watched closely especially with views or platforms that may run opposite to what China's current mission is (For example, a war aganist nation X for means any anti-war politicans will be "perusaded" to drop their anti-war stances or "disappear").

It is viewed that China must become strong and somewhat more aggressive, considering the fact that China's peaceful stance has had the nation devastated on more than one occassion (1930's, WW-3, and 1964).

------------------------

EDIT:

I don't have the time to put up a new Chinese thread right now, but this is a heads up for gameplay when it resumes in 1970. Some aspects may be changed like the nation name from "Nova China" to something more grand- its just a working title right now.

Just a heads up...

When we resume gameplay, keep in mind, there's a new system in China, modeled after Confucianism, and several ideas such as meritocracy, decentralization (The whole "The less a King does, the more the nation can do" thing), and authoritarianism, legitimism, paternalism and submission to authority used as political tools to rule China.

In addition, China is introducing state-run and state-sponsored propganda, mostly to drown out any foreign media that may paint China in a negative light. In addition, the new China will incorporate subconscious control. What I mean by this is using embedded audio and visual messages within media and propganda to alter the people minds on the subconscious level, making them love things, become averse to certain actions, or become fanatical about certain missions (like destroying enemies).

The New China will be called "Nova China" and led by President Heng Ming. Elections will continue, but be watched closely especially with views or platforms that may run opposite to what China's current mission is (For example, a war aganist nation X for means any anti-war politicans will be "perusaded" to drop their anti-war stances or "disappear").

It is viewed that China must become strong and somewhat more aggressive, considering the fact that China's peaceful stance has had the nation devastated on more than one occassion (1930's, WW-3, and 1964).


North Korea, but bigger and Free Market..

I can save you time and do it myself. The only changes I can see needed are taking away funding for the NeoSCT.

also Japan is going to revise its military

look at RL Japanese military as of 2000, it should reflect something along those lines

in other words, no carriers, no bombers, a very effective air defense system, escort fleet and small army. No missiles, and because of how its been in this RP it has nukes, but they should be tactical weapons mostly, with some money spent on cruise missile research.

by the way, by TG box is full, so I may not be getting what anyone sends me until I get a chance to read through them all

GB, I emailed you instead, which I think I will do more often :p

Parthini']GB, I emailed you instead, which I think I will do more often :p

recieved and responded to

also responded to everyones TGs

also added posted some things in the NPC, ASA and Space threads

some energy rules added in

New Chinese thread up.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=495090

New Chinese thread up.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=495090

when did you get the Viggens? Not available until 1968 and thats a lot of points at once, even for you

when did you get the Viggens? Not available until 1968 and thats a lot of points at once, even for you

I'm buying them in 1969 and 1970, actually (some of my units are being built in 1970 so are included in my ORBAT for reference purposes)