NationStates Jolt Archive

China will be more than happy to supply nuclear fueling technology to the Philippines so that it will be able to construct its own nuclear power plants. That way the Philippines will be able to power itself independent of oil and natural gas supplies.

Korea inquires about possible acquisition of Nuclear fueling tech, as well.

Korea inquires about possible acquisition of Nuclear fueling tech, as well.

You have already got it. I released it to the the core (PC) nations during the energy crisis.

You have already got it. I released it to the the core (PC) nations during the energy crisis.

Okay. Looks like I can do some things...

The Philippines thanks it's fellow SCT member for their gracious offer. We would like to accept.

Whoah, 1000th post in E20. Pretty amazing that E20 has been around since mid-2005. How many NS RP's have lasted this long?

Over a year now, as the first post was on May 6th, 2005.

I think after E2 and the White Tower (NS's most posted thread last time I checked) we're the longest constantly running.

I think after E2 and the White Tower (NS's most posted thread last time I checked) we're the longest constantly running.

Hmm...

The White Tower isn't exactly a national level RP like E20 is, and I remember some posts in there were poor quality.

E2, I don't know. I mean, I don't know much about it but from what I can remember it's using NS stats and wanking (tech-wise).

E20 is probably the longest running REALISTIC RP going on, without IGNORES or time-reverses or stuff that happens with NS-based RP's like 4 billion people living in Delaware sized landmasses.

i know im not supposed to do this and i apolagize, but we are looking for people, so if your interested in an Rp like this, look at my signature and you will see the rps.

Again, i guess your not supposed to advertise for offsite rps, but it was started here and we need good people.
Dont get irritated, ill only bring it up once here.
Apolagies,but eh

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=485664

All Saigon-Seoul Participants, post intros, things of that sort here. Also, could this be added to the front page?

Sorry guys, been off all day today with a continuous headache, sort of sorted now. But i'll try to get round to updates on intel projects, space missions and Rwanda tomorrow after work if i'm OK, (around 6-ish my time). Sorry for any delays.

Parthini']This has been bugging me...

What will music be like? With no real Cold War, what will the Punk movement say? Will faster technology bring synthesizers earlier, thus bringing the traditional "80s" pop music into the 70s?

Damn alternate history...

Also, did Heinlein write all of his books? He better have...

Heinlein, probably not, but we still have Asimov, Clarke, etc

Probably music is much the same though, as the world is even more uncertain then the historical Cold War period, with a lot more nations having nuclear weapons. In addition, we have the same reactions to consumerism etc.

Aww... won't he have spare time :(

On second thought, I don't think I want him writing Starship Troopers. Too much possible Germany bashing...

Also the way I had the Philippines, the younger generation just took the country over from the older generation. It just recovered from a gerentocracy. SO that could breed rock and roll and punk. Yeah.

Heinlein, probably not, but we still have Asimov, Clarke, etc

Probably music is much the same though, as the world is even more uncertain then the historical Cold War period, with a lot more nations having nuclear weapons. In addition, we have the same reactions to consumerism etc.

Definetly the youth counterculture will exist; I'll cite the same reasons (after all, I want Korean kids to listen to the Who and the Stones). Not to mention most major late 20th century diet fads and exercise fads, like Atkins and the Zone and the Jane Fonda Workout tapes; those rose partly due to the shocks of the 70's and that nasty Oil Shock we had will probably encourage a round of those earlier than expected.

Definetly anime would exist in E20, as the US in this universe still pummeled the Japanese, and occupied it (though they left most of the punishment rendered in RL to the Japanese to the Russians in our timeline)- a big prerequisite for anime's existence as we know it (love it or hate it). It might even become a tad more influential, but no Heinlein means some of the more famous Giant Robot series would develop differently.

But in all fairness, Heinlein could write on the side and submit works to sci-fi mags still-after all, being a government man still may not pay much.

YAY!! We still get to keep anime. YAY!! Sorry I am an otaku, forgive me.

YAY!! We still get to keep anime. YAY!! Sorry I am an otaku, forgive me.

It's okay-I'm one too (in fact, I started a crazed otaku terrorist faction on NS in my MT days). That's why I speculated on it.

I see, so can the Philippines get some anime shipments when it's made?

I see, so can the Philippines get some anime shipments when it's made?

Well, that'd be up to the Japanese player, though I foresee positive results-after all, as we're all enjoying little-or-no trade barriers whatsoever, what's to stop the spread of anime?

A Fourth World War?

A Fourth World War?

*Looks shiftly at Russia* .....So true, so true.......

Hey, don't blame me, blame my large southern neighbor and my decently sized western one.

Oh man, if everyone agreed to not use nuclear weapons... I would just love a WWIV... all the possibilities....

yea me too, perhaps...we could make some sort of agreement. I mean the whole Russia thing is about to boil up

Parthini']Oh man, if everyone agreed to not use nuclear weapons... I would just love a WWIV... all the possibilities....

Heh- I know that people both IC and OOC won't want to use nuclear weapons for a few reasons.

1. People want to keep E20 going, so they aren't likely to "self-destruct" E20 with a nuclear holocaust.

2. IC-wise, nations know that if nuclear weapons are used, everybody dies, even remote African or South American tribes deep inside the jungles. So I don't see nations IC-wise deciding "Hey, lets nuke our enemy" because they'd be like "Uh, our enemy will nuke us back and we lose the war just as badly as the enemy will. Nobody wins."

3. With pretty much everybody having nukes, people aren't likely to nuke each other any time soon because of reasons 1 and 2. If it was just 2 or 3 nations with nukes, then a limited nuclear war could happen, but with 10+ nations having nukes, a nuclear war would truly be global (hitting everywhere in the world instead of in the lands of just 2 or 3 nations).

Heh- I know that people both IC and OOC won't want to use nuclear weapons for a few reasons.

1. People want to keep E20 going, so they aren't likely to "self-destruct" E20 with a nuclear holocaust.

2. IC-wise, nations know that if nuclear weapons are used, everybody dies, even remote African or South American tribes deep inside the jungles. So I don't see nations IC-wise deciding "Hey, lets nuke our enemy" because they'd be like "Uh, our enemy will nuke us back and we lose the war just as badly as the enemy will. Nobody wins."

3. With pretty much everybody having nukes, people aren't likely to nuke each other any time soon because of reasons 1 and 2. If it was just 2 or 3 nations with nukes, then a limited nuclear war could happen, but with 10+ nations having nukes, a nuclear war would truly be global (hitting everywhere in the world instead of in the lands of just 2 or 3 nations).

I think you're talking about MAD- Mutually Assured Destruction.

The situation is more complex than that.

For one thing, the US has no plans to fight a conventional war against China and its unlimited manpower. But the US has no plans to lose a war with China either.

Just to list an example.

In character, no one really has ANY idea just what would happen if a nuclear war began. Some would be convinced its winnable, some would be convinced it would be racial suicide. In reality, its somewhere between winnable and survivable depending on how many megatons are used and how quickly. This too would not be understood at this time in this timeline.

There are reasons for this. It is possible to potentially destroy the enemies ability to strike back if things work out just right. Its difficult, but not impossible. Risky though. Also, if enough weapons hit in a certain sequences, the ability to order more weapons used is destroyed. There are a lot of variables.

Biological destruction of the planet isn't as easy as you might think. Its possible, but its on the low end of probability. Unless you are deliberately trying for maximum casaulties, most weapons are aimed at military targets and production centers. Many of them will not work as expected (if at all).

An example of deliberate national genocide would be targeting nuclear powerplants in order to maximize fallout, and using your warheads in a pattern of strikes designed to increase fall out. Which is only really doable if you aren't concerned about retatliation.

(Nuclear winter didn't become an active theory until the 1980s bcause of information gleaned from surveying Mars and looks at the ice record regarding dust fallout obtained by exploration in the Antarctic and Arctic)

Although there was considerable pessism, there was also considerable optimism as well. Now in this timeline we have had an ATOMIC exchange, and it did inflict serious damage to several nations. Which should make the generals and politicians cautious. But if it comes down to national survival, expect to see any weapon used.

Hey Sharina...remember the Saigon-Seoul Rally? I put up a thread for that.

Hmm...

For one thing, China isn't planning on invading the mainland USA any time soon, so the USA's national survival isn't in question.

Besides, in a situation like Vietnam or Korea or Afghanistan in RL- the USA and USSR didn't go after each other with nukes even though the survival of these smaller nations were in question and the whole ideology battle (Capitalism / Freedom versus Communism / Oppression).

Hey Sharina...remember the Saigon-Seoul Rally? I put up a thread for that.

Added.

Added.

Thanks, man. Post when you can.

Ok, so I'm going to be out until next Friday at the earliest. No internet or anything. So, I leave the fate of 90 million Germans in the capable hands of Koryan and Abbassia. If anything major happens that deals with Germany or the Middle East directly, they know what to do and their word should be as gold.

Otherwise, assume Germany's doesn't care.

Hmm...

in a situation like Vietnam or Korea or Afghanistan in RL- the USA and USSR didn't go after each other with nukes even though the survival of these smaller nations were in question and the whole ideology battle (Capitalism / Freedom versus Communism / Oppression).

thats correct.. nuclear weapons should definitely be a desperation manuever or in the case of national survival, especially if the owning nation is a democratic nation

/reminiscing

Why'd you have to go and obliterate the Union and cause all of my friends to leave?

(I just finished running through your old thread)

Parthini']/reminiscing

Why'd you have to go and obliterate the Union and cause all of my friends to leave?

(I just finished running through your old thread)

IC
because it was them or me (Union vs US)

OOC
they didn't have to leave.. they chose to .. sigh

IC
because it was them or me (Union vs US)

OOC
they didn't have to leave.. they chose to .. sigh

Well... you could have run the People's Republic of the Midwestern Breadbasket. I always figured you wouldn't want to touch the Northeast. Too radioactive. And the West Coast was going to be Japanese...

At least you could have waited until we had space battles... God... I had so many freaking cool ideas for Space Admiral Yuri Gagarin.

BTW, what happened to good ol' Yuri?

And something totally random, how old is too old for Space? I want Rudel to fly around up there...

Syria's thread is now NPC, my new Russian thread is: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=484814
Repost

Repost

Whoops! Forgot about that.

I'm fixing that right now.

New Chinese thread up (quite a bit of revision and renovations from the old thread.)

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=485921

INTEL RESULTS

SIBERIA

Rebels begin gathering at large meetings and becoming increasingly violent against symbols of Russian government: police stations, local government offices, even post offices. These locations find themselves mobbed and several cases of arson are reported, going uncontrolled by a fire service too scared to react in these areas. Local police units are forced to don riot gear to clear the streets, though it takes some time and several arrests in one or two areas to succeed in this matter. Some of the protestors are armed however and it doesn't take long for a police officer to be shot and all hell to break loose. The army has to be called in and take control of the situation with helciopters and heavily armed troops.

The KGB becomes more active and people involved are frequently discovered missing from their homes. The Siberians are upset at the lack of progress from the UN and the sneaky practices of the KGB. By the end of November there are casualties on both sides with a few dozen Siberians dead as well as 3 policemen and an army corporal. Some police and army units become unuseable due to persistant desertion from the ranks but the majority hold up OK.

By the start of December things have simmered down a little but rioting continues and the world's press watches, frequently showing graphic scenes of the violence on both sides to the world.

More intel stuff to come later.

INTEL RESULTS

SIBERIA

Rebels begin gathering at large meetings and becoming increasingly violent against symbols of Russian government: police stations, local government offices, even post offices. These locations find themselves mobbed and several cases of arson are reported, going uncontrolled by a fire service too scared to react in these areas. Local police units are forced to don riot gear to clear the streets, though it takes some time and several arrests in one or two areas to succeed in this matter. Some of the protestors are armed however and it doesn't take long for a police officer to be shot and all hell to break loose. The army has to be called in and take control of the situation with helciopters and heavily armed troops.

The KGB becomes more active and people involved are frequently discovered missing from their homes. The Siberians are upset at the lack of progress from the UN and the sneaky practices of the KGB. By the end of November there are casualties on both sides with a few dozen Siberians dead as well as 3 policemen and an army corporal. Some police and army units become unuseable due to persistant desertion from the ranks but the majority hold up OK.

By the start of December things have simmered down a little but rioting continues and the world's press watches, frequently showing graphic scenes of the violence on both sides to the world.

More intel stuff to come later.


The US provides military intelligence to the Russians routinely now, and asks if Russia wishes to activate the clause in the US / Russian defense treaty calling for the US to assist in its defense.

The Russian government has scattered in case of hostilities. Lacking any nuclear deterrent, the Duma, Central Court, Prime Minister, and Cabinet are all moved to "undisclosed locations" with lower level positions (Undersecretaries or equivalents) remaining in Moscow. The following statement is released.

Recently many of Russia's neighbors, once trading partners and friends, have engaged in actions we feel are threatening to Russian sovereignty. Several nations neighboring us have mobilized their nuclear forces. One nation has 600 nuclear bombers able to strike our nation. We have no nuclear forces at all, nor sufficient capability to repel such an attack. We have put full faith in the Truman doctrine and American support, and we thank them for continuing to provide support in this time of crisis. However, we can no longer guarantee the safety of foriegn citizens in Russian territory from outside attack. We would advise foreigners in Russia seek the shelter of embassies and consulates. Russian police and military units will help facilitate this. We would call on the nations of the world to do what they can to avert this crisis, and to defend us if attacked.

OOC: Essentially our military is too small to defend everyone from everyone around us, so if your civilians get killed, blame China and the SU, and blame them slightly more than verbally.

The Russian government has scattered in case of hostilities. Lacking any nuclear deterrent, the Duma, Central Court, Prime Minister, and Cabinet are all moved to "undisclosed locations" with lower level positions (Undersecretaries or equivalents) remaining in Moscow. The following statement is released.

Recently many of Russia's neighbors, once trading partners and friends, have engaged in actions we feel are threatening to Russian sovereignty. Several nations neighboring us have mobilized their nuclear forces. One nation has 600 nuclear bombers able to strike our nation. We have no nuclear forces at all, nor sufficient capability to repel such an attack. We have put full faith in the Truman doctrine and American support, and we thank them for continuing to provide support in this time of crisis. However, we can no longer guarantee the safety of foriegn citizens in Russian territory from outside attack. We would advise foreigners in Russia seek the shelter of embassies and consulates. Russian police and military units will help facilitate this. We would call on the nations of the world to do what they can to avert this crisis, and to defend us if attacked.

OOC: Essentially our military is too small to defend everyone from everyone around us, so if your civilians get killed, blame China and the SU, and blame them slightly more than verbally.

Japan secretly pulls out all citizens in Russia via their embassy, and then begins to withdraw members of their embassy staff, leaving a full guard and a handful of diplomats (all secret of course). Japan secretly offers to withdraw any other SCT citizens if their respective governments wish it

OOC: and you totally stole my hiding of government officals from me

The Korean government moves into secure quarters all over Korea, and issues a statement equivalent to: "Guys....let's chill out. Okay? We're kinda freaked out already, and we really don't want to have to go to war."

Japan secretly pulls out all citizens in Russia via their embassy, and then begins to withdraw members of their embassy staff, leaving a full guard and a handful of diplomats (all secret of course). Japan secretly offers to withdraw any other SCT citizens if their respective governments wish it

Korea quietly informs the Japanese it may expedite the removal of all Korean nationals in Russia, and send them to Vladivostok.

The Russian government has scattered in case of hostilities. Lacking any nuclear deterrent, the Duma, Central Court, Prime Minister, and Cabinet are all moved to "undisclosed locations" with lower level positions (Undersecretaries or equivalents) remaining in Moscow. The following statement is released.

Recently many of Russia's neighbors, once trading partners and friends, have engaged in actions we feel are threatening to Russian sovereignty. Several nations neighboring us have mobilized their nuclear forces. One nation has 600 nuclear bombers able to strike our nation. We have no nuclear forces at all, nor sufficient capability to repel such an attack. We have put full faith in the Truman doctrine and American support, and we thank them for continuing to provide support in this time of crisis. However, we can no longer guarantee the safety of foriegn citizens in Russian territory from outside attack. We would advise foreigners in Russia seek the shelter of embassies and consulates. Russian police and military units will help facilitate this. We would call on the nations of the world to do what they can to avert this crisis, and to defend us if attacked.

OOC: Essentially our military is too small to defend everyone from everyone around us, so if your civilians get killed, blame China and the SU, and blame them slightly more than verbally.


Not one nuclear warhead is aimed at Russia, although we cannot say the same about ourselves with the recent American mobilization. Scandic citizens and all CSPS citizens are be advised that they should get out or avoid Russia if possible.

Nigeria pledges full support to Russia.

Hachiro Arata lived a dangerous life in Russia, now very suspicious of the SCT's motive's. Working kept his mind of that fact. He saw his target get out of the car and walk toward his house. He strode forward. "Mr. Jung?" he asked.

"Yes?" Mr. Jung replied

Arata took his arm and gently steered him toward his waiting car, were another agent sat. "We have orders to help you leave the country, back to Korea..."

The Japanese embassy managed to get sevral planeloads of Koreans out, flying them out in Japanese comercial aircraft pressed into service for the situation

OOC: I'll leave this ripe for conflict

Not one nuclear warhead is aimed at Russia, although we cannot say the same about ourselves with the recent American mobilization. Scandic citizens and all CSPS citizens are be advised that they should get out or avoid Russia if possible.

Japan aproaches the SU about helping to get SU citizens out of Russia

China makes a statement mostly in response to Russia's statement.

"First of all, we have had no intention of using nuclear weapons on Russia nor its soldiers. Despite the fact that Russia has visited nuclear horrors upon China, the Chinese people will not visit nuclear horror upon the Russian people. We also have no interest nor do we want to kill or genocide every Russian in existence as you seem to imply.

Second, the only reason China has mobilized its nuclear forces is in direct response to American nuclear forces being mobilized. Nothing more, nothing less.

Third, China will not initate a nuclear attack, nor will it be the first to do so. It will be the Americans who will attack first with nuclear weapons. And if the Americans do so, their nation will be wiped clean off the face of the Earth in the same way that they might do to China. We call this 'Mutual Assured Destruction'. Someone strikes you and you have to strike back equally.

Finally, the extinction of mankind will rest squarely on the shoulders of the Americans. If the Americans strike first with nuclear weapons and that is a definite certainty, considering that China will never be the first one to use nuclear weapons, then China will be forced to respond in kind. With the American and Chinese nuclear arsenals, every city and center of civilization on Earth will be destroyed. Priceless centers of history and learning such as Beijing, Shanghai, Paris, London, Washington, New York, Boston, Rome, Moscow, Tokyo, and others will be utterly vaporized in nuclear fire. Billions will die in the holocaust started by the Americans.

Are the American people ready to accept and live with the responibility of the extinction of the entire human race through nuclear weapons, purely through the fault of America? Again, China will never be the first one to initate a nuclear exchange.

If the Americans and their allies are to de-mobilize their nuclear forces, China will do the same. If America and every other nation in the world are to destroy and disassemble all their nuclear weapons, China would be more than happy to do so. Nuclear weapons should have never been invented nor developed in the first place."

Any help would be much aprecciated. Likewise, if there are any Japanese citizens in Western Russia were it would be easier for us to evacuate, we offer the same services.

We thank you for your support. Japan is currently making an air service force out of older or other commercial aircraft to ferry any foreign citizen out.

Japan would also like to point out that while they have nuclear weapons, they have no way to deliver them, and use the SCT to provide a nuclear umbrella, for which we are gratefull

ooc
hmm.. looks like we have our first nuclear crisis.

I will start a thread. Time is going to SLOW massively at this point

We will start as of August 1, 1961

Because of the speed of events in this kind of situation, we have to slow things down. It may be necessary to slow things down to real time (1 day is 1 day).

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11087286#post11087286

ooc
hmm.. looks like we have our first nuclear crisis.

I will start a thread. Time is going to SLOW massively at this point

We will start as of August 1, 1961

Because of the speed of events in this kind of situation, we have to slow things down. It may be necessary to slow things down to real time (1 day is 1 day).

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11087286#post11087286

Added.

Incidentally, I'm going to be unavailable tomorrow until the late evening (eastern time), so if you guys could hold off blowing up the world until I get back, that'd be great.

If things do go to shit, though, South Africa will follow her policy in the past two Great Wars and back the Commonwealth.

Incidentally, I'm going to be unavailable tomorrow until the late evening

Me likewise, I have rather impotant exams all next week, and so until about 5 or 6 in the afternoon I will not be available.
As for actions in my absence.
If America Strike first unexpectedly, the two Kirin B bomber wings accompanied by tankers will use nuclear weapons on American west coast cities.

Otherwise the USEA will be one of the first to back down if the situation becomes untenable.

Me likewise, I have rather impotant exams all next week, and so until about 5 or 6 in the afternoon I will not be available.
As for actions in my absence.
If America Strike first unexpectedly, the two Kirin B bomber wings accompanied by tankers will use nuclear weapons on American west coast cities.

Otherwise the USEA will be one of the first to back down if the situation becomes untenable.

yea I will be available less on weekdays because of testing and studying, but I should be able to post, just not as much

It would have been nice if potential Armaggedon could have waited a few weeks.

It would have been nice if potential Armaggedon could have waited a few weeks.

actually I'm leaving soon for 4 weeks, so my account may be deleted, so I would like to know if any SCT member could watch over my country while I'm gone?

May I please join this thread?

my involvement as of late has been pretty weak. Really swamped here at home, and my own birthday is a distraction that seems to add insult to injury.

Really hope to get some more posts up later this week as the nuclear crisis unfolds. If I cant, Australia stands with the US.

Happy Birthday!

May I please join this thread?

There's a list of open nations on the first page. Sharina and GB are the ones to talk to about getting approved.

I guess I would take Central Asian Republic if I'm let into this thread.

I guess I would take Central Asian Republic if I'm let into this thread.

not at this time

Ok, but isn't the last I will try.

Happy Birthday!

thanks :p

In any case, I have a little free time. Soooo.

IC: The Australian government expresses alarm at the brinkmanship being shown by all nations. Military forces are moved to a Defcon 2 Equivalent, though precautions are taken to not alarm the public. Construction on the first batch of Australian produced ICBMs, the 2nd generation Dingo (equivalent of 2nd gen. Titan missile) was scheduled for completion in 1961 and any avaliable missiles that were finished by August are readied (I bought 2 batches so if by halfway through the year they would both be half done, giving me effectively one full set of 10 to use).

Ottoman Khaif just told me he wanted to possibly join as Syria.

Its My Birthday!

Happy birthday to you too then :p

19th... a dangerous age in Canada... muahahaha

Its My Birthday!

Happy birthday. :)

Happy birthday.

Ottoman Khaif just told me he wanted to possibly join as Syria.
I'll talk to him. The AF might be a better fit, or perhaps Turkey (given his name and actions on E2)

Happy Birthday Cylea.

Chatzy was supposed to be ready today, but doesnt appear to be.

I'll talk to him. The AF might be a better fit, or perhaps Turkey (given his name and actions on E2)

Happy Birthday Cylea.

Chatzy was supposed to be ready today, but doesnt appear to be.
Turkey is dead to me, since I lefted and the AF is nothing to me. Syria is more worth it....and its unoffically...if I am even back.

Ummm welcome back.

Sukiaida, did you get my TG? Another one's getting sent your way

Oh no I didn't. Let me go check. Right now I am trying to find the E20 economic thread so I can get that taken care of.

Right now I am trying to find the E20 economic thread so I can get that taken care of.

Front page has the link.

Oh yeah. lol. Do I feel dumb.

Its My Birthday!

wait, your bday is june 5th, 1987? Cause if so, that is exactly the same as mine. Very cool (and even if it isnt, happy birthday!)

I have a son older then you guys

Incidently, we should be able to return to normal time frames by Monday, so figure 1962 begins then

Hmm...

Actually, I was thinking of turning the year to 1962 as of today we only missed two days of 1962 if the Siberian Crisis hadn't occurred. I was thinking of having the year turn to 1963 by next Tuesday (instead of Monday to give an extra day to catch up on any stuff), then by the Monday after that- Monday, June 19, we should be back to our usual timetable (1964) then the usual Monday = new game year onwards.

wait, your bday is june 5th, 1987? Cause if so, that is exactly the same as mine. Very cool (and even if it isnt, happy birthday!)

It definatly is... wow scary!

So I gatther that the stuff we bought during the economic stuff of 1962 will not become availble til 1963, but the industrial center will have been built already.

Mine is December 18, 1991! Beat that, old geezers!

You have a son older than his mid-twenties. Damn you are old.

You have a son older than his mid-twenties. Damn you are old.

my son was born 1985, but many of our RPers are younger then him

Sharina, I think we should wait until monday for 1962, gives people time to consider what happened during the Siberian Crisis, and some new players a chance to get up on the rules some more.

my son was born 1985, but many of our RPers are younger then him

Sharina, I think we should wait until monday for 1962, gives people time to consider what happened during the Siberian Crisis, and some new players a chance to get up on the rules some more.

Ohh- I proposed 1962 because everybody seems ready to start 1962 with their builds, UN stuff (like Rwanda), military taking time to de-mobilize, etc.

By the way, I was born in 1982- so I guess I'm one of the oldest RP'ers around in E20 besides GB. ;)

What month in 1982? I'm July. ANd yeah I wanted to get ahead and start construction of stuff. I don't really have much to actually put into action anyways. If I wasn't neutral.

What month in 1982? I'm July. ANd yeah I wanted to get ahead and start construction of stuff. I don't really have much to actually put into action anyways. If I wasn't neutral.

April 1982.

Ahhh You Are Older Than Me!!! Nooooo!!!!

Ahhh You Are Older Than Me!!! Nooooo!!!!

I take it your birth year is 1982 as well?

Yep July 13th 1982

What month in 1982? I'm July. ANd yeah I wanted to get ahead and start construction of stuff. I don't really have much to actually put into action anyways. If I wasn't neutral.

feel free to post your 1962 budget

Yep July 13th 1982

We're the special ones.

We get to graduate from high school in 2000 (I did), and I also got my whole "Becoming 18 years old" benefits in 2000 as well. ;)

Well at least I'm not the youngest one here.

Yep, and I did post it in the economic thread. Class of 2000 here too. Yep.

My 1962 budget is in the Economic thread, isn't that where it's supposed to be?

IMPORTANT development in China.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11118986&postcount=26

It concerns bomber development and China's frustration at the inability to develop intercontinental bombers to match the US's B-52 and the FNS's B-70 in range.

Is there an E20 chatzy up?

http://www.chatzy.com/921930878279

Thats the link to the E20 main chatroom (I had to make a new one).

OOC: After my long absence from this Role-Play, I have decided, upon the death of the other RP's I have invested my time into, to rejoin the E20 Alternate-History Community; for good this time.

Thus, if you would not mind, GB or Sharina, I would like to claim the Dominion of Canada this time around (as it seems Belgium has been already claimed in my long absence).

However, before I try to hit the ground running, perhaps someone could give me an idea as to what Canada has been up to lately and if any major Alternate-History events have greeted its shores. I would really appriceate it.

Besides that, I hope all of you will allow me to fit back into the picture as I wish to help E20 continue to prosper.

OOC: After my long absence from this Role-Play, I have decided, upon the death of the other RP's I have invested my time into, to rejoin the E20 Alternate-History Community; for good this time.

Thus, if you would not mind, GB or Sharina, I would like to claim the Dominion of Canada this time around (as it seems Belgium has been already claimed in my long absence).

However, before I try to hit the ground running, perhaps someone could give me an idea as to what Canada has been up to lately and if any major Alternate-History events have greeted its shores. I would really appriceate it.

Besides that, I hope all of you will allow me to fit back into the picture as I wish to help E20 continue to prosper.

enjoying peace, prosperity and is a happy member of NORAD and the Oceanic Alliance

builds are somewhere in the economic thread, but I willl post the 1962 builds for you this year as I have been handling them.

enjoying peace, prosperity and is a happy member of NORAD and the Oceanic Alliance

builds are somewhere in the economic thread, but I willl post the 1962 builds for you this year as I have been handling them.

OCC: Thank you, GB.

Expect a News Thread soon.

Yes welcome back.

OOC: Canadian News & Events Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=486765)

OOC: Canadian News & Events Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=486765)

Added.

Ok, I look at the Economy thread and I hear about war...

I'm back, but I'm going to go see a movie. So, give me tonight to figure things out...

Parthini']Ok, I look at the Economy thread and I hear about war...

I'm back, but I'm going to go see a movie. So, give me tonight to figure things out...

We nearly had WW-4 over Siberia and the Cascaus.

Germany, when you get back check your TGs.

I found a Mirage fighter that is better than the Mirage V and was released in the same year.

Mirage-G:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_G

SR-71 Blackbird (for comparison):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-71#Specifications_.28SR-71A.29

Note the Mirage-G is "Long Range" with a range of almost 4,000 kilometers, a huge improvement over the Mirage V's which are "Medium Range". The Mirage-G could be construed as a "Semi-Intercontinental" fighter!

In addition, the Mirage-G's can fly up to 60,000 feet which is 10,000 feet HIGHER than the B-52's maximum service ceiling, and just 15,000 feet shy of the SR-71 Blackbird's maximum altitude of 85,000 feet. This means the Mirage-G's can fly up to 60,000 feet and fire AAA missiles aganist the Blackbirds as 15,000 feet is nothing for missiles to accomplish.

What's more... the Mirage-G's maximum speed is Mach 2.2, while the Blackbird's maximum speed is Mach 3.2. That means the Mirage-G's *DO* have a chance of intercepting the Blackbirds if scrambled early, as the Mirage-G's are capable of 2/3 the speed of the Blackbird, a substantial improvement over various other fighter aircraft.

Therefore, I am shifting my "Upgrade" of 24 units of Mirage III's to 24 units of Mirage-G's as they are superior to the Mirage-V's.

====================================

EDIT:

China wants to make sure that the French WILL NOT be able to build these aircraft- especially the Mirage-G. China asks the Dassault company to deny production rights of this aircraft to France, as China is Dassault's largest customer and Dassault will lose nothing by not selling Mirage-G's to France.

In addition, this will be China's trump card aganist the OA- a fighter to rival the future USA F-series like F-14, F-15, etc. and having the ability / possibility to intercept Blackbirds and spy planes, and have a tremendous range, being able to attack naval aircraft far before the enemy naval aircraft reach land (mainland Asia in this instance).

I found a Mirage fighter that is better than the Mirage V and was released in the same year.

Mirage-G:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_G

SR-71 Blackbird (for comparison):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-71#Specifications_.28SR-71A.29

Note the Mirage-G is "Long Range" with a range of almost 4,000 kilometers, a huge improvement over the Mirage V's which are "Medium Range". The Mirage-G could be construed as a "Semi-Intercontinental" fighter!

In addition, the Mirage-G's can fly up to 60,000 feet which is 10,000 feet HIGHER than the B-52's maximum service ceiling, and just 15,000 feet shy of the SR-71 Blackbird's maximum altitude of 85,000 feet. This means the Mirage-G's can fly up to 60,000 feet and fire AAA missiles aganist the Blackbirds as 15,000 feet is nothing for missiles to accomplish.

What's more... the Mirage-G's maximum speed is Mach 2.2, while the Blackbird's maximum speed is Mach 3.2. That means the Mirage-G's *DO* have a chance of intercepting the Blackbirds if scrambled early, as the Mirage-G's are capable of 2/3 the speed of the Blackbird, a substantial improvement over various other fighter aircraft.

Therefore, I am shifting my "Upgrade" of 24 units of Mirage III's to 24 units of Mirage-G's as they are superior to the Mirage-V's.

====================================

EDIT:

China wants to make sure that the French WILL NOT be able to build these aircraft- especially the Mirage-G. China asks the Dassault company to deny production rights of this aircraft to France, as China is Dassault's largest customer and Dassault will lose nothing by not selling Mirage-G's to France.

In addition, this will be China's trump card aganist the OA- a fighter to rival the future USA F-series like F-14, F-15, etc. and having the ability / possibility to intercept Blackbirds and spy planes, and have a tremendous range, being able to attack naval aircraft far before the enemy naval aircraft reach land (mainland Asia in this instance).


I really wish military stuff would post in the military thread so I don't have to look across several threads to find it (sigh)

I really wish military stuff would post in the military thread so I don't have to look across several threads to find it (sigh)

Sorry about that, GB. I got a little too excited, my apologies.

China wants to make sure that the French WILL NOT be able to build these aircraft- especially the Mirage-G. China asks the Dassault company to deny production rights of this aircraft to France, as China is Dassault's largest customer and Dassault will lose nothing by not selling Mirage-G's to France.

In addition, this will be China's trump card aganist the OA- a fighter to rival the future USA F-series like F-14, F-15, etc. and having the ability / possibility to intercept Blackbirds and spy planes, and have a tremendous range, being able to attack naval aircraft far before the enemy naval aircraft reach land (mainland Asia in this instance).

Not only this is against free-trade, Dassault is NOT an exclusively Chinese Agency, in fact it would be safe to assume that there is a large number of French investors and shareholders, Also France uses Dassault aircraft as its main aircrafts and has helped to make Dassault the main aircraft of Yugoslavia.

Not only this is against free-trade, Dassault is NOT an exclusively Chinese Agency, in fact it would be safe to assume that there is a large number of French investors and shareholders, Also France uses Dassault aircraft as its main aircrafts and has helped to make Dassault the main aircraft of Yugoslavia.

Free trade? That does not apply to military equipment. Otherwise, the USA would be sharing (or selling) its B-52's to everybody in the world, or the FNS selling their B-70's. While we're at it, why isn't USA or UK freely sharing its VX Nerve Gas agents with the rest of the OA? Or sharing all their hardware?

Dassault chose to move to China instead of staying in France after WW-3. The Dassault sector that did remain in France was the CIVILIAN sector that builds jetliners and such. The military portion of Dassault moved to China where it enjoys quite lucrative business opporunities (China has bought at least 50+ units of Dassault planes in the last 10 years, far more than France).

China does not want France to get its hands on Chinese military secrets, nor its new weapons developed to fight the OA (and France is a new member of the OA). That would be like the USA sharing all of its military aircraft secrets with, say, USEA or Pakistan. A big no-no.

The bottom line is that France can have the civilian Dassault planes, but not the military ones. France can get its military planes from the rest of the OA like the USA, UK, FNS, etc. who probably would be happy to do so. China isn't about to let France have access to China's fighters, bombers, or aircraft just because Dassault is based in both nations. Besides, China is the one who is aggressively seeking advanced aircraft contracts to combat the OA's aircraft, not France.

If France was allied to China, or if France was a member of the SCT (not likely) then China wouldn't have ANY problems sharing Dassault military planes with France. But the fact is that by joining the OA, France's relations with China will inevitably sour as it is the OA who hates China and the SCT (thus the existence of the OA in the first place).

hmm, have to consider the Dassault thing, but the most likely effect would be Dassault leaving China. In game terms, China could still build Dassault aircraft developed so far, but any new Dassault type aircraft (like the F1 for example) would be called something else.

Essentially the Chinese engineers stay, but the French ones go home. Dassault has built some military aircraft for France too by the way.

and did China actually call the US and the OA the enemy IC?

hmm, have to consider the Dassault thing, but the most likely effect would be Dassault leaving China. In game terms, China could still build Dassault aircraft developed so far, but any new Dassault type aircraft (like the F1 for example) would be called something else.

Essentially the Chinese engineers stay, but the French ones go home. Dassault has built some military aircraft for France too by the way.

and did China actually call the US and the OA the enemy IC?

China hasn't called the US / OA the enemy IC'ly, but the expansion of the OA has China very worried as many in China feel that the OA is expanding so that the OA can crush China in any future conflict. That doesn't sit too well with the Chinese (and probably the rest of the SCT)

China just cannot afford to let France have access to the Mirage-G or any future aircraft built by Mirage as China is loath to give up any advantage it can have aganist the OA, considering the OA has better bombers and possibly fighters (with F-14, F-15, F-18, F-22, and so on)

It'd be like the US giving its B-52, SR-71 Blackbirds, etc. specifications and technology to Pakistan, a nation that isn't exactly high on the USA's list of friends- having to share top military tech with Pakistan just because the Boeing company has a few factories in Pakistan (just an example).

EDIT:

I'm just a little frustrated that I might have to share the only edges and advantages that I have with a nation that is supposedly being invited and entering the OA, the supposedly "anti-SCT" and "anti-China" alliance.

Comprimise: Dassault leaves China but without the Mirage-G, you can call it whatever you like but Dassault will produces French Aircrafts from now on, the remaining engineers go to whatever company you had in mind. I will never develop the Mirage-G, but any future Dassault creations will be mine.

I'm only stating a very serious problem that will arise should France and China find themselves at war, or if the SCT and OA go to war in the future. With France joining the OA, it will only distance France from China, and sour relations.

The expansion of the OA is making China increasingly suspicious and paranoid of the OA. Why else would the OA, a supposedly Pacific-only alliance suddenly take on European members who have little to do with the Pacific... if not to counter the growing SCT and China?

So you can see why China is very hesistant about Dassault producing military planes for China that are also produced for France. That means the OA will be able to know everything about Chinese planes (From French knowing ALL technical specs of Chinese planes through Dassault, then France sharing all that info with the OA) while China won't know squat about the OA's planes (like F-series). This gives the OA an advantage over China that China cannot afford to give the OA.

Besides, without future Mirage's (I have my eyes on the Rafale for a modern fighter to rival the F-22 Raptor, and the Neuron as a stealth bomber to rival the USA's B-2), I will have to OOC'ly steal / copy British, US, or European aircraft stats and then claim they are Chinese planes (ripping off the exact same stats for, say, the JSF or Eurofighter 2000 or such and then say these aircraft are Chinese, not European in E20 timeline).

-----------------------------------

EDIT:

Sorry if I'm going all crazy. Its just that it doesn't make sense for China to blindly share military technology with someone who is joining an alliance aimed towards China and the SCT.

I wouldn't be so upset if France and China weren't on opposite sides of the fence. If the Siberian Crisis did go hot, then French troops and aircraft would probably be attacking China.

French Mirage III's (or V's) fighting Chinese Mirage III's (or V's).

I'm sure France doesn't want its military secrets or top aircraft to fall into Chinese hands either.

remember in the military thread I pointed out that lead times on aircraft designs are getting longer.

Improved versions of existing aircraft will be coming along before new aircraft.

As far as bombers go, I would suggest talking to your Scandic allies.

Also note that the OA didn't discuss extending membership until after the Siberian Crisis. Which was started when it became clear that certain nations were funding armed rebellion in Russia

remember in the military thread I pointed out that lead times on aircraft designs are getting longer.

Improved versions of existing aircraft will be coming along before new aircraft.

As far as bombers go, I would suggest talking to your Scandic allies.

Also note that the OA didn't discuss extending membership until after the Siberian Crisis. Which was started when it became clear that certain nations were funding armed rebellion in Russia

I realize that. Its that China is in a rush to develop something that will have the same "reach" range-wise as the OA's bombers without needing refueler tankers (saves logistics and such).

As for the OA extending membership, the fact still remains. China wasn't the culprit in the Siberian Crisis- and even so, IC'wise, the Chinese are still going to be paranoid because... "Is the OA expanding just because of the USEA? No, they are expanding because of something else. The SCT in general." China IC'ly knows that the US alone could easily take on the Scandic Union and the CSPS, so again, the Chinese are asking themselves, "If the USA and the UK can easily handle the CSPS and the nation of USEA on their own, then why do they see the need to expand the OA alliance to include half the world or more?"

Another perspective...

Chinese people ask the following...

"Why is the OA expanding when just the US and UK could handle the USEA and the CSPS on their own? As it stands, the OA now supposedly includes Russia, most of Europe, entirety of both Americas, Australia, and good portions of Africa. 2/3 of the world aligned aganist China, the SCT, and the CSPS. That must be why."

-------------------------------

Just looking at this from an IC standpoint.

This will only fuel more Chinese paranoia in the years to come as they will start to think the "Extended" OA is out to get China and the SCT.

Dude... That 2/3rds of the world is maybe 1/2 of the world's population. Probably more like 40% to 1/3 of the population. Land means nothing, especially when you flaunt that you will have 1000 points a year by the 70s or whatever.

France has no qualms about China and would look forward to continue dealings with it, the reason France is joining the OA is due to Scandic actions not Chinese (Maybe a state visit or something to reduce any tensions would be in order). After all we get a lot of our oil from the UIR and we are providing them with aid also, so French relations with the SCT should be a bit above avarage.

Oh hey Parth, I'm afraid you missed your chance to start a world war :p, so will Germany join the OA after the last traversity by the CSPS?

Parthini']Dude... That 2/3rds of the world is maybe 1/2 of the world's population. Probably more like 40% to 1/3 of the population. Land means nothing, especially when you flaunt that you will have 1000 points a year by the 70s or whatever.

Two things.

1. That was before all the new energy and pollution rules were put into effect.

2. Maybe not in population, but in land area, and more land = more resources (farmland, metals, minerals, oil, etc.)

France has no qualms about China and would look forward to continue dealings with it, the reason France is joining the OA is due to Scandic actions not Chinese (Maybe a state visit or something to reduce any tensions would be in order). After all we get a lot of our oil from the UIR and we are providing them with aid also, so French relations with the SCT should be a bit above avarage.

China will be more than happy to have this.

China is just concerned about the actions taken by the OA. The OA showed how easily it jumped to war preparations even though China was not guilty of the offenses of funding Siberian groups. What is there to prevent the OA from doing a similiar thing in the future aganist China- suppose the OA goes to war with China only to find out China is innocent yet again? Then the war would have been for nothing, and millions of people died for no reason at all.

That is why China is concerned about the "war-happy" leaders of the OA, and the possibility of another major OA mistake in the future that could be very costly in this age of mass destruction.

--------------------------------------

OOC:

As you can see, thats where most of the Chinese paranoia comes from.

Oh hey Parth, I'm afraid you missed your chance to start a world war :p, so will Germany join the OA after the last traversity by the CSPS?

Yeah, I was sad... I think if I would have had my chance to sling some words around, Berlin would be a wasteland and WWIV would have started.

And I'm looking to see if we can get a merger between the EEC and OA or something.

BTW, do you think 5 points is enough to build fallout shelters in the Arabian Desert for, say, 10,000 people?

Parthini']Yeah, I was sad... I think if I would have had my chance to sling some words around, Berlin would be a wasteland and WWIV would have started.

And I'm looking to see if we can get a merger between the EEC and OA or something.

BTW, do you think 5 points is enough to build fallout shelters in the Arabian Desert for, say, 10,000 people?

If the EEC and OA were to merge, it will make China even more paranoid, but its OK- I will have the means to deal with the "Extended world-spanning OA" very shortly, and it is not what you may think.

The world will get a lot more tense and enormous pressure will be on the OA very shortly.

You + more paranoid = tensions = war = me happy

Jeez, I though you would have learned after playing with me for a year :p

China will be more than happy to have this.

China is just concerned about the actions taken by the OA. The OA showed how easily it jumped to war preparations even though China was not guilty of the offenses of funding Siberian groups. What is there to prevent the OA from doing a similiar thing in the future aganist China- suppose the OA goes to war with China only to find out China is innocent yet again? Then the war would have been for nothing, and millions of people died for no reason at all.

That is why China is concerned about the "war-happy" leaders of the OA, and the possibility of another major OA mistake in the future that could be very costly in this age of mass destruction.

--------------------------------------

OOC:

As you can see, thats where most of the Chinese paranoia comes from.

We are very glad to hear this. But consider this counterstatement (not actually made but shown quietly to Chinese officials):

But still the USEA is part of the SCT, and if the SCT has members who commit to violating international law, who knows what traversities we might see in the future? The USEA couldn't have shipped all that aid without passing through SCT territory (USEA is very far from Siberia) and it is wondered if indeed China is fully innocent. Suppose tommorow members of the SCT take it upon themselves to push for the "Liberty" for other minorities, causing instability of many nations leading not only to short term death and turmoil but the criplement of the future of these nations.

That is why France is concerned about the Menace the SCT could become if the subversive manner of its members continues, and the possibility of another major violation of international law in the future that could be very costly in this age of mass destruction.

OOC:
As you can see, We can be Paranoid, too. It seems also that the USEA is getting of lightly, I wonder if others are aswell.

Oh hey Parth, I'm afraid you missed your chance to start a world war :p, so will Germany join the OA after the last traversity by the CSPS?

We didn't really do anything, especially to Germany. And as far as the SCT and CSPS comments go, the CSPS is not allied to the SCT.

OOC:
As you can see, We can be Paranoid, too. It seems also that the USEA is getting of lightly, I wonder if others are aswell.

OOC: All in good time, my friend, all in good time.

May I please join this thread?

And I'm looking to see if we can get a merger between the EEC and OA or something.

Sounds like a plan to me!

I've got nothing against a merger.

We are very glad to hear this. But consider this counterstatement (not actually made but shown quietly to Chinese officials):

But still the USEA is part of the SCT, and if the SCT has members who commit to violating international law, who knows what traversities we might see in the future? The USEA couldn't have shipped all that aid without passing through SCT territory (USEA is very far from Siberia) and it is wondered if indeed China is fully innocent. Suppose tommorow members of the SCT take it upon themselves to push for the "Liberty" for other minorities, causing instability of many nations leading not only to short term death and turmoil but the criplement of the future of these nations.

That is why France is concerned about the Menace the SCT could become if the subversive manner of its members continues, and the possibility of another major violation of international law in the future that could be very costly in this age of mass destruction.

OOC:
As you can see, We can be Paranoid, too. It seems also that the USEA is getting of lightly, I wonder if others are aswell.

------------------------------------

China responds to the French "notes".

We are aware that the USEA made a mistake. How many nations would be willing to step forward and admit they were the culprits behind the action, and then apologize for it? Not many. As you Westerners would say, "It takes a big man to admit he's wrong."

Besides, the majority of the SCT isn't intent on breaking international law. China is the largest, most industrialized, and the economic powerhouse behind the SCT, yet it doesn't try to interfere with international law. Japan, Korea, Burma, and the Philippines aren't ones to flaunt international law either. The only exceptions would be the USEA (which actually apologized for doing so and is trying to make amends, a very laudable effort) and Pakistan (the chemical weapons from 10+ years ago).

China has already deployed counter-intelligence and counter-terrorist forces throughout China. Therefore should any future "mysterious contribiutions" take place, it will not be going through or coming from China.

In addition, during the Siberian Crisis, China did not mobilize its forces along the Siberian border, raise its DEFCON levels sky-high, prepare its nuclear and conventional forces for an invasion, or anything of the sort. In fact, Chinese deployments and movements remained the same as they had been for 10+ years. If China was truly, as you Westerners would say, "in bed with" the USEA in regards to Siberia, then China would have had been mobilizing for an invasion of Siberia or deploy troops to Siberian cities. Yet China did not do so.

Therefore, China is not planning to become a "menace" to world security, but the recent expansion of the OA, and rumors of a possible EEC / ESA and OA merger only serves to raise suspicions that the OA is preparing to make its move aganist the SCT. Surely the CSPS isn't that powerful to warrant the OA nearly doubling in membership while just the US and UK could have handled the CSPS on their own. Thus, the only rational explaination for this is to make a move on the SCT soon, otherwise the OA wouldn't be so eager to expand.

All rhetoric aside, if the OA does become aggessive or belligerent to China, we will defend ourselves to the last man, woman, and child. All China wants is to be left alone to prosper, and surely the rest of the SCT wants the same- to be left alone to develop, rather than the escalation of a "Cold War" between the SCT and the OA.

Parthini']You + more paranoid = tensions = war = me happy

Jeez, I though you would have learned after playing with me for a year :p

Haha- I know that. However, this time around, even your "fooling around" might mean total nuclear war (and end of civilization). These are VERY dangerous times to be "fooling around". If there were no nuclear weapons on both sides, then it would be a different story.

------------------------------------

China responds to the French "notes".

We are aware that the USEA made a mistake. How many nations would be willing to step forward and admit they were the culprits behind the action, and then apologize for it? Not many. As you Westerners would say, "It takes a big man to admit he's wrong."

Besides, the majority of the SCT isn't intent on breaking international law. China is the largest, most industrialized, and the economic powerhouse behind the SCT, yet it doesn't try to interfere with international law. Japan, Korea, Burma, and the Philippines aren't ones to flaunt international law either. The only exceptions would be the USEA (which actually apologized for doing so and is trying to make amends, a very laudable effort) and Pakistan (the chemical weapons from 10+ years ago).

China has already deployed counter-intelligence and counter-terrorist forces throughout China. Therefore should any future "mysterious contribiutions" take place, it will not be going through or coming from China.

In addition, during the Siberian Crisis, China did not mobilize its forces along the Siberian border, raise its DEFCON levels sky-high, prepare its nuclear and conventional forces for an invasion, or anything of the sort. In fact, Chinese deployments and movements remained the same as they had been for 10+ years. If China was truly, as you Westerners would say, "in bed with" the USEA in regards to Siberia, then China would have had been mobilizing for an invasion of Siberia or deploy troops to Siberian cities. Yet China did not do so.

Therefore, China is not planning to become a "menace" to world security, but the recent expansion of the OA, and rumors of a possible EEC / ESA and OA merger only serves to raise suspicions that the OA is preparing to make its move aganist the SCT. Surely the CSPS isn't that powerful to warrant the OA nearly doubling in membership while just the US and UK could have handled the CSPS on their own. Thus, the only rational explaination for this is to make a move on the SCT soon, otherwise the OA wouldn't be so eager to expand.

All rhetoric aside, if the OA does become aggessive or belligerent to China, we will defend ourselves to the last man, woman, and child. All China wants is to be left alone to prosper, and surely the rest of the SCT wants the same- to be left alone to develop, rather than the escalation of a "Cold War" between the SCT and the OA.

A handful of nations halfway across the globe a threat to you? we are sad you think that.

Regardless, it is unhealthy to dwell too much in the past, a hopeful stride to the future is much more welcome. You have heard our opinion in this matter and We have noted your displeasure in our choice in forign affairs, but it is still our choice to make, no matter what do you, rationally or irrationally, believe percipitated it. The final fate of Dassault is for it to choose.

We bid you farewell.

ooc
Richard Pipes—a Reagan advisor—said in 1982 that, "The probability of nuclear war is 40 percent...and our strategy is winnable nuclear war."

that kind of feeling would not be isolated or even rare nor limited to the US.

Mao belived that China would win as well.

They weren't completely insane either.. depends on how it starts and is conducted

Alright the player once known as the Middle Eastern Union is back,...so I was wondering could I rp as Morocco?

I've talked with OK about nations, and he certainly can make Morocco playable.

EDIT: You mean for the German government? Civil Defense pays for bombshelters, although I suppose a Cheyenne mountain style thing would be more expensive.

A handful of nations halfway across the globe a threat to you? we are sad you think that.

Regardless, it is unhealthy to dwell too much in the past, a hopeful stride to the future is much more welcome. You have heard our opinion in this matter and We have noted your displeasure in our choice in forign affairs, but it is still our choice to make, no matter what do you, rationally or irrationally, believe percipitated it. The final fate of Dassault is for it to choose.

We bid you farewell.

It is not France that has China so concerned- China was only concerned that possible shared aircraft developed by Dassault might end up on opposing sides in a future conflict (if there is any).

It is the Americans and Germans that has China quite concerned, especially with their attitude. America's actions during the Siberian Crisis, and Germany's constant inflammatory rhetoric dating to the times of the Warsaw Pact. Not a good combination in China's eyes.

ooc
Richard Pipes—a Reagan advisor—said in 1982 that, "The probability of nuclear war is 40 percent...and our strategy is winnable nuclear war."

that kind of feeling would not be isolated or even rare nor limited to the US.

Mao belived that China would win as well.

They weren't completely insane either.. depends on how it starts and is conducted

Hmm- but with what I have planned, if all goes well, the possibility of nuclear war will be eliminated entirely from E20, forcing all nations to engage in conventional warfare like the RL WW-2, Korean War, Vietnam War, etc.

Eliminating nuclear war? This I have to see.

Alright the player once known as the Middle Eastern Union is back,...so I was wondering could I rp as Morocco?

doable, I have been handling its builds so far, and will post the 1962 builds some time this weekend or monday

I've talked with OK about nations, and he certainly can make Morocco playable.

EDIT: You mean for the German government? Civil Defense pays for bombshelters, although I suppose a Cheyenne mountain style thing would be more expensive.

I was thinking like Mineshafts that would allow 10,000 or so people to live underground until the radiation subsides... that way I can win....

And when have I been making inflammatory rhetoric towards China... since WWIII? I made some nasty comments about the OA a while ago, and some dirty noises about the SU and CSPS, but I don't think I've said anything about China.

Parthini']I was thinking like Mineshafts that would allow 10,000 or so people to live underground until the radiation subsides... that way I can win....

And when have I been making inflammatory rhetoric towards China... since WWIII? I made some nasty comments about the OA a while ago, and some dirty noises about the SU and CSPS, but I don't think I've said anything about China.

Perhaps not towards China up to this point (1961 / 1962), but the German rhetoric might be aimed at China soon considering Germany is joining the OA (and wants to merge the EEC / ESA with the OA).

Parthini']I was thinking like Mineshafts that would allow 10,000 or so people to live underground until the radiation subsides... that way I can win....

.

somewhere a general is shouting that we must not allow a mineshaft gap to develop

somewhere a general is shouting that we must not allow a mineshaft gap to develop

A parapalegic rocket scientist rumored to have some strange old alleigances to Trotsky approaches the Reichstag about the need for Germany to develop mineshafts for Germans to live in. He proposes a 1:10 male to female ratio, with men based on intelligence and strength, and women based on breeding ability and actractiveness.

At the same time, several other Generals propose a Civil Defense system is long overdue and plans are put into place for construction of one in 1963.

That reminds me Parth, coolness points aside, you need to post on the Saigon-Seoul Rally thread. We're assembling now at Dong Khoi Street.

That reminds me Parth, coolness points aside, you need to post on the Saigon-Seoul Rally thread. We're assembling now at Dong Khoi Street.

I dont have the link :(

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=485664

Here it is.

Parthini']A parapalegic rocket scientist rumored to have some strange old alleigances to Trotsky approaches the Reichstag about the need for Germany to develop mineshafts for Germans to live in. He proposes a 1:10 male to female ratio, with men based on intelligence and strength, and women based on breeding ability and actractiveness.

Sounds very familiar...

A parapalegic rocket scientist rumored to have some strange old alleigances to Trotsky approaches the Reichstag about the need for Germany to develop mineshafts for Germans to live in. He proposes a 1:10 male to female ratio, with men based on intelligence and strength, and women based on breeding ability and actractiveness.

Doesn't that film get made sometime around now? In E20 terms I mean...

Parthini']A parapalegic rocket scientist rumored to have some strange old alleigances to Trotsky approaches the Reichstag about the need for Germany to develop mineshafts for Germans to live in. He proposes a 1:10 male to female ratio, with men based on intelligence and strength, and women based on breeding ability and actractiveness.

At the same time, several other Generals propose a Civil Defense system is long overdue and plans are put into place for construction of one in 1963.

I have no clue what "easter egg" this is. Is this one of these James Bond villains or something?

I have no clue what "easter egg" this is. Is this one of these James Bond villains or something?

Quotes are from
Dr. Strangelove or: how I learnt to stop worring and love the bomb
by Stanley Kubrick, it's very funny.

The film should come out in 1964, though I don't know how it would be twisted for the E20 universe.

Doesn't that film get made sometime around now? In E20 terms I mean...

both Dr Strangelove and Fail Safe are made about now as a matter of fact

probably with some revisions no doubt

Sharina, you must get Dr. Strangelove on DVD. It's essential viewing, if only for the fantastic final scene with Major "King" Kong riding a nuclear weapon out of his B-52 into Russia, followed by a montage of nuclear explosions (actual documentary footage from several US tests aparrently). Anyway it's a brilliant film.

My contributions to this RP will be few and far between for the next couple of weeks i'm afraid guys, I have my final A-level (British university application exams) coming up and I need the time of for last minute revision. If anything happens that needs my urgent attention (like WWIII again) let GB or someone else handle it for me and i'll add what I can when I can. Normal service will be resumed within 2 weeks!

Sorry guys, but I have around 18.5 hours of exams still to go and the soming week is my worst of the lot with Physics, Maths and Geography to do with some Chemistry, Physics and Geography exams the week after.

I'll try and post my builds when I can but it could be as late as Friday which is my next full day off.

Cheers.

Sharina, you must get Dr. Strangelove on DVD. It's essential viewing, if only for the fantastic final scene with Major "King" Kong riding a nuclear weapon out of his B-52 into Russia, followed by a montage of nuclear explosions (actual documentary footage from several US tests aparrently). Anyway it's a brilliant film.

My contributions to this RP will be few and far between for the next couple of weeks i'm afraid guys, I have my final A-level (British university application exams) coming up and I need the time of for last minute revision. If anything happens that needs my urgent attention (like WWIII again) let GB or someone else handle it for me and i'll add what I can when I can. Normal service will be resumed within 2 weeks!

Sorry guys, but I have around 18.5 hours of exams still to go and the soming week is my worst of the lot with Physics, Maths and Geography to do with some Chemistry, Physics and Geography exams the week after.

I'll try and post my builds when I can but it could be as late as Friday which is my next full day off.

Cheers.

Take your time- RL takes precedence over RP's, and if you need some time off for your exams, don't worry about it. We got you covered here in E20.

Take your time- RL takes precedence over RP's, and if you need some time off for your exams, don't worry about it. We got you covered here in E20.

hey Sharina, or anyone else from the SCT, would someone mind doing my builds and speaking for me in the UN and such for 4 weeks in about 2 weeks or so (I'll announce it when I'm about to leave)

Here are the major events in the Arab World for 1962-1964. The US, UK, and maybe Germany will probably be the only foriegn powers who'll care. I don't think it will cause an oil crisis unless something happens like Federation troops setting oil fields on fire or something like the OA blockading the Persian Gulf.

Most of them are Arab Socialists (modern, anti-extremist, semi-left wingers) vs the conventional governments (old fashion islam-based governments), except for the Rwandan and Sudanese crisises which are racially and religiously based.

Map (http://www.easy-sharing.com/503891/0.bmp.html) (Click the link under the ad)

The reasons the foreign powers would get involved:
US:
Historical: Break islamist control over Iran and establish a stable American presence in the Middle East.
E20:Although the UIR isn't extremist, it's still a theocracy and second of all, Iraq is the gateway to the SCT, America's main competitor in E20.
UK:
First of all, all countries involved are former British subjects. Second of all, I think Yemen and/or Oman are part of the commonwealth (correct me if I'm wrong).
Germany:
The final 1-2 punch to secure Arab Socialist control over the Middle East and unite it against the Scandic-backed Turkish Alliance. A second option would be to use the chaos between the Republican and Federation forces to resurrect the Rashidi Army and turn the Arab Federation into a German puppet.

so basically there is a bunch of civil wars and rebellions going on and the winner could decide where the Middle East will go and who it will side with in the future?

The SCT might get involved in the Arabian conflict mainly to protect the UIR, as the UIR is a member of the SCT.

So..what exactly is going on in the ME?

So..what exactly is going on in the ME?

Pretty much a giant, bloody battle between liberals (Arab Socialists) and conservatives (uh... the others). The Arab Socialists are Egypt, Syria, Sudan, Saddam's Republican Forces, and the Republican forces in Yemen. The conservatives are the Federation forces in the AF and the Royalist forces in Yemen.

Pretty much a giant, bloody battle between liberals (Arab Socialists) and conservatives (uh... the others). The Arab Socialists are Egypt, Syria, Sudan, Saddam's Republican Forces, and the Republican forces in Yemen. The conservatives are the Federation forces in the AF and the Royalist forces in Yemen.
Ah nothing better then a goold old fashion Baathist vs Royalist and Conservatives...whoot!

Round up your boys and come and join us! This would be a good chance to test out your military and see what you need to add to it/remove from it. I'm pretty much the only country in the ME with a navy so you could just unload right on the enemy's shores. Unless I'm that enemy... ;)

Round up your boys and come and join us! This would be a good chance to test out your military and see what you need to add to it/remove from it. I'm pretty much the only country in the ME with a navy so you could just unload right on the enemy's shores. Unless I'm that enemy... ;)
Is Nasser your President or someone else, just wondering

Ah nothing better then a goold old fashion Baathist vs Royalist and Conservatives...whoot!

Hashemites for the win!

Syria could be interesting, as it is a Baathist Monarchy (albeit a con mon). Syria has a navy as well, not as large as the Egyptian one, but perhaps better (ships were built in France)

Is Nasser your President or someone else, just wondering

Yep, although he doesn't have full control over the government like he did in RL. Even better, Egypt didn't have the embarrassment of getting mauled by Israel so his popularity never dropped.

Koryan, I think you should make a thread for the Middle East.

Parthini']Koryan, I think you should make a thread for the Middle East.
Yes, so we can reunited Middle East like the good old days of the MEU and also kick out the blast Huns aka Ze Germans. :)

Yes, so we can reunited Middle East like the good old days of the MEU and also kick out the blast Huns aka Ze Germans. :)

well we haven't had an oil shock related recession in a while

When can we start building Arcologies and undersea cities, not to mention space station cities? Is that like tech level 10?

Just to clarify, SA is going to start sharing tech with me. What are the rules on that?

Parthini']When can we start building Arcologies and undersea cities, not to mention space station cities? Is that like tech level 10?

9.5 - 10

What year will that be (in RL)? 2030?

Parthini']What year will that be (in RL)? 2030?

hope so, I would like to live to see them myself

hope so, I would like to live to see them myself

Wewt! So we'll have them by 2000-2010...

Any chance we could build an Arcology early on? Especially underground in Arabia...

Parthini']Wewt! So we'll have them by 2000-2010...

Any chance we could build an Arcology early on? Especially underground in Arabia...

not before tech 8.5 at least

hope so, I would like to live to see them myself

The closest thing to an Arcology we have in RL would be the proposed Millennium Tower, and I'm certain that the Millennium Tower will be built by 2030 at least.

Middle East Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11157037)

That will be the Arab League thread as well once I get that all sorted out. We can probably throw OPEC and any other Middle Eastern organizations in there as well, just so we don't have two or three threads.

IMPORTANT UN RESOLUTION:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11157123&postcount=960

Proposed by China (yours truly).

The closest thing to an Arcology we have in RL would be the proposed Millennium Tower, and I'm certain that the Millennium Tower will be built by 2030 at least.

the Houston Galleria has in addition to a world class shopping mall, has attached apartment buildings, office buildings, and a health club. All it lacks is its own electrical supply and it would be an arkology. Mall of America is pretty close too. As is Rockefeller Center in NYC.

Just to give you something to think about. Some of the big resort hotels in Vegas are close as well

Middle East Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11157037)

That will be the Arab League thread as well once I get that all sorted out. We can probably throw OPEC and any other Middle Eastern organizations in there as well, just so we don't have two or three threads.

that would be helpful... although the US and FNS and Russia are actually bigger oil producers and natural gas producers at this point (although they consume much of what they produce)

Wow I missed alot in four days. Is our 1963 budget due since I mean 1962 never really began when I was off.

I'm watching "Countdown to Doomsday" on the Sci-Fi channel, and it's pretty convincing in explaining that humanity is pretty much screwed.

1. In the last 50 years, we've lost 20% of topsoil, 20% of our agricultural land, and similiar losses in the ecosystem. Within 50 years, the rainforests in South America and Africa will be reduced to 5% of what they are today.

2. Global warming. There's huge amounts of methane in the Earth's oceans, and once the oceans reach a certain tempature thereshold within the next 10 years, the methane bubbles to the surface and magnifies the Greenhouse Effect a hundred-fold. Earth will become like Venus.

3. Biological viruses like Smallpox and Avian Flu and SARS can pretty much kill 1/2 of the world's population MINIMUM should a pandemic break out.

4. The USA's refusal to sign the Kyoto Accord because of stupid "Oh, but it will ruin the USA's economy" pretty much has doomed Earth. The US consumes 1/4 of the world's resources, and is the leading polluter on Earth. Various nations that has signed the Kyoto Accord like Japan hasn't taken "significant economic hit".

5. A full 2/3 of ALL life on Earth will be extinct within the end of this century because of humans destroying and polluting ecosystems.

There's plenty more doomsday scenarios (mostly natural phenomna) but these 5 bother me the most, and are probably the worst of them all, considering it's entirely man-made or mankind are responible for them.

Now, apply this to E20, where the world is pretty much twice as industrialized as it is in RL. Thus, accelerate these doomsday stuff twice as fast (5 years instead of 10 for lethal global warming... or 50 years for 2/3 of the world's life to become extinct... or 25 years for the rainforest to be virtually gone). Looks like Earth will be a barren place by 2050 in RL, if not earlier... and 2000 or earlier in E20.

Makes me really think that if 90% of the human race were to die out, then it would save Earth from destruction. If 90% of humans die from Smallpox, Avian Flu, SARS, or nuclear war or whatever, then Earh itself will be saved for future intelligent life to evolve in (and possibly far more logical and wise than humans- like Star Trek's Vulcans). Because there'll be 90% less pollution, ecological damage, global warming, and pretty much a huge cut in man-caused destruction on Earth.

God, I'm so depressed after watching "Countdown to Disaster". What's the point of living if the Earth and humankind will die out in our lifetimes (by 2020 to 2050)? Stupid-ass Politics has doomed the human race to extinction and turn Earth into a dead barren planet.

The planet will bring itself back. It did after the other massive extinctions. We'll just be dead. ^^

The planet will bring itself back. It did after the other massive extinctions. We'll just be dead. ^^

True. However I want to live my full natural life (70+ years old) instead of dieing in such an apocalypse.

True. However I want to live my full natural life (70+ years old) instead of dieing in such an apocalypse.

If you mangae to survive the first few years of disease and death, you will! =D

Besides, it's the Sci-Fi channel.

And you wonder why I'm so concerned about building Arcologies and Space cities...

And this time I'm not kidding.

BTW, is the Chatzy link on the front page?

As Economod:
I'm going to be gone from the 17th of June to the 28th of July, working at a summer camp. Obviously, I won't be around to fulfill my duties as economic mod during that time, so this is essentially a heads-up for everyone.

As South Africa:
If the world blows up or n00ks start flying, then assume South Africa cries and ducks its collective head under a rock. Not really; GB, Kilani, and Parth would all have a fairly good idea of how South Africa will act in a war or crisis of some sort. I'll have about one day off every week, but I haven't decided if I'm going to try to do yearly builds on that day, or just post them all before I leave and them edit them as necessary when I get back. Hopefully you guys can hold the world together without me until 1968.

Here's a few examples of what I'm talking about...

Agricultural loss:

http://www.environmentcolorado.org/envco.asp?id2=23275

http://www.infoforhealth.org/pr/m13/m13chap3_3.shtml

(shows the rate of loss of agricultural land)

Fishing losses:

http://na.nefsc.noaa.gov/lme/text/lme27.htm

(Migration to coastal cities in West Africa because of the expanding Sahara desert excaberates this problem in the Atlantic)

http://seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov/OCEAN_PLANET/HTML/peril_overfishing.html

http://www.un.org/events/tenstories/story.asp?storyID=800

(explains overfishing in detail and examples)

Global Warming:

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2005/02/01/global_warming_methane_could_be_far_worse_than_carbon_dioxide.htm

http://www.hydrogen.co.uk/h2_now/journal/articles/3_Methane.htm

(explains my fears of methane causing an even worse global warming- triggered by human caused global warming)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0420_040420_earthday.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2100776,00.html

(explains what a runaway global warming will do with the world's oceans. Practically all coastal cities will be submerged underwater, and large swathes of land will be submerged like Florida for example)


When you add up all these things up, and realize that all these things are happening at the same time, a picture begins to form in your mind about a barren Earth in the future if these trends continue.

==========================================

Heh- I'm hoping E20 will stay alive until then, and hopefully 2000 and beyond (barring nuclear war, enviromental apocalypse, and such).

Besides, I'm seriously considering having China spend 100 points PER YEAR on enviromental and "green" stuff starting in 1965 onwards after I finish all that I need to build.

Heh- I'm hoping E20 will stay alive until then, and hopefully 2000 and beyond (barring nuclear war, enviromental apocalypse, and such).

Besides, I'm seriously considering having China spend 100 points PER YEAR on enviromental and "green" stuff starting in 1965 onwards after I finish all that I need to build.

except that would not be historically accurate at all

seriously though, I have done a lot of reading on the subject and the jury is out. A good book to read is called "Collapse" although it helps if you have a lot of background in the subject.

except that would not be historically accurate at all

Which part?

The enviromental apocalypse by 2000 in E20?

Or China investing heavily in enviromentalism and "Green"?

I was wondering, would anyone mind if I switched nations to the UIR?

I was wondering, would anyone mind if I switched nations to the UIR?

Whoah- thats a surprise!

Just wondering why you'd want to do that instead of playing France?

I believe Warta Endor told me he would come back within a week or two, and he was gone because of schoolwork, but I suppose it's up to the mods

Warta just TG'd me saying I could watch over his country, and he'll be back in a week

Oh OK, I just wanted to try an Islamic nation in the Middle East and see how would I fare in the test of Middle Eastern Politics, So the Warta is coming back, eh? How about Saudi Arabia or Oman?

To make light any fears of Sharina's on the world ending, look at long term ecological trends. After an ice age the weather normally grows warmer. We just got out of an ice age around the 1830's. (Not that long ago in ecological time.) And therefore the whole man making the global warming argument is a farce. It's the earth doing it's normal rounds. I mean people were afraid during the American Revolution that the world was going to freeze over. THe agriculture was falling, the fishing was falling, it was so cold. Why do you think Napoleon's men froze on their feet in the invasion of RUssia? It was the mini-ice age.

I see that same kind of paranoia now adays as the population of Earth felt at the dawn of 1830, when it started to get warmer and the ice age ended. Now we are basically at the notice of the warm clime. Personally if a creature from the age of the dinasaurs came to our earth, he'd put on a parka and say how frigid our weather was and how dry. COmpared to the times back then, we live in a very cold and dry atmosphere. ANd like someone else said, it was the Sci Fi Channel. Not Sci Fact channel. SO I wouldn't worry.

Um, I highly doubt that the world will be wiped out by 2050. This is the first time I've heard these claims (and I watch Nat. Geo. a lot, Discovery Channel, Disc. Science, etc), and while I agree we're on a bad path, we're not going to be wiped out by 2050. 2150, per chance, but not 2050.

Abbassia: What side would you rather be on in the things going on there? There's liberals and conservatives more or less. The Arab Federation would be good if you want conservatives, although Jordan/Basra could work as well. Syria, Oman, and Yemen are more liberal.

Oh, and check the you-know-where

Oh OK, I just wanted to try an Islamic nation in the Middle East and see how would I fare in the test of Middle Eastern Politics, So the Warta is coming back, eh? How about Saudi Arabia or Oman?

"Saudi" Arabia is now part of the Arab Federation (Arabia and part of Iraq). That would probably be a good country to play because A)tons of oil you can export for some cash and B)Imperialistic dictator who takes a "slightly" more aggressive approach to the Pan-Arab movement. Not only that, but you have a ton of little countries around to absorb as long as you do it without the SCT or British seeing.

Well in this all the UIP would want is to keep an open oil line for future purchases.

"Saudi" Arabia is now part of the Arab Federation (Arabia and part of Iraq). That would probably be a good country to play because A)tons of oil you can export for some cash and B)Imperialistic dictator who takes a "slightly" more aggressive approach to the Pan-Arab movement. Not only that, but you have a ton of little countries around to absorb as long as you do it without the SCT or British seeing.

and C) a bloodthirsty patron who keeps an army bigger than yours in your country so you won't have to worry about pesky foreigners :)

What do we do with France though :(

Parthini']and C) a bloodthirsty patron who keeps an army bigger than yours in your country so you won't have to worry about pesky foreigners :)

What do we do with France though :(

Have England invade and annex it :D

Almost entirely joking by the way, but here's my idea.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c66/dph948/nouvellefrance.jpg
Lime green-to Italy, using claims from Roman Empire days
Darker Blue-to Britain, using medieval claims
Purplish-Burgundy
Pinkish-to Switzerland
Pastel Green-to Belgium
Yellow-to Spain
Orange-to Russia (everyone's stealing my ports, might as well steal someone else's)
Light Blue-to Germany (if they dont already have it)
Red-the new Republic of Gaul, to be monitored by Italy.

Why are you partionting France out? SHouldn't it just be made an NPC?

It will be, I was joking (mostly)

Alright, just checking.

France can be NPC, and I will handle its builds for a while

figure a conservative government takes power and decides to be low key for a while

Which part?

The enviromental apocalypse by 2000 in E20?

Or China investing heavily in enviromentalism and "Green"?

anyone being excessively Green at this point. One advantage we will have is that population will be about 1.5 Billion less then historical at 2001 as earlier industrilization will prevent the massive population growth that occured historically in Africa and Latin America, not to mention China. This will mean a huge difference as far as ecological and environmental damage is concerned, although on the debit side, energy use is way ahead of schedule and green house gases will have to be estimated the best I can come up with.

Exact figures still have to be figured out, but thats my ball park guess at the moment.

anyone being excessively Green at this point. One advantage we will have is that population will be about 1.5 Billion less then historical at 2001 as earlier industrilization will prevent the massive population growth that occured historically in Africa and Latin America, not to mention China. This will mean a huge difference as far as ecological and environmental damage is concerned, although on the debit side, energy use is way ahead of schedule and green house gases will have to be estimated the best I can come up with.

Exact figures still have to be figured out, but thats my ball park guess at the moment.

Hmm.

Although, with the oil troubles (Oil Depression of the 50's, the Middle Eastern crisis, and Russia probably not selling Siberian oil and gas to China) and China's economy being more industrialized than it is in RL, it means China will eat through what oil it has (oil deposits in China and the rest of the SCT) much quicker than RL.

Thus, it's only logical for China to plan ahead and start thinking of ways how to maintain its large economy without collapsing from no more oil or gas. In other words, its logical and plausible for China to start looking into more alternative energy sources so it won't rely too much on oil (especially Siberian or Middle East oil) for its economy and military. Because if this trend of oil consumption continues, we WILL have WW-IV, not over national differences, but diminishing non-renewable energy resources.

Remember my secret report I wrote up back in 1958 or 1959?

Would Armenia allow a pipeline to be built through it?

How long will my small Filipino Oil last?

Would Armenia allow a pipeline to be built through it?

Probably if you pay it enough, and it is promised a share of the oil.

How much would a pipeline from Azerbaijan through Armenia and Turkey to the Black Sea coast. Tanker can carry it across the Black Sea, then it'll start up again in the Ukraine to Poland and up to the SU?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan_pipeline

This is one that is pretty similar to what you are talking about.

Yes, except it would end on the Turkish Black sea coast, though an extension could be made to the Med coast if needed. It would also continue in the Ukraine up to the SU.

How much would a pipeline from Azerbaijan through Armenia and Turkey to the Black Sea coast. Tanker can carry it across the Black Sea, then it'll start up again in the Ukraine to Poland and up to the SU?

see Middle Eastern thread for proposed alternative (Armenia has too small a harbor to make a good port, Batumi simply couldn't handle the traffic). Better results would be at Sinope in Turkey if transporting oil from UIR to Europe via Black Sea, but not enough of a commercial advantage to offset existing port facilities in Haifa and Beriut

On the Armenia note, would it be possible to get them into the CSPS?

On the Armenia note, would it be possible to get them into the CSPS?

unlikely, the Armenians have 1,000 years worth of hatred of the Turks and longer hatred of Moslems. Russia is viewed (in real life) as a protector in a lot of ways (Orthodox Christians both)

unlikely, the Armenians have 1,000 years worth of hatred of the Turks and longer hatred of Moslems. Russia is viewed (in real life) as a protector in a lot of ways (Orthodox Christians both)

Yet China and Japan are now in an alliance- they became allies very shortly after the Japanese actions of WW-3 (and the atrocities done during that time as well).

Good point, whose the common enemy that would cause that?

Yet China and Japan are now in an alliance- they became allies very shortly after the Japanese actions of WW-3 (and the atrocities done during that time as well).

But what compelling reason do they have to change sides at this point? Russia has been helping them according to economic thread. Cultural and religious ties plus economic ties do not in my view seem likely to cause Armenia to change sides.

Good point, whose the common enemy that would cause that?

Except the US hasn't done anything to the Japanese. If anything, Japan would be more wary of China then is being demonstrated in this RP. Look at current real life events and tensions.

During the Siberian Crisis, most US pressure was on China, figuring that China could restrain its allies. No pressure was placed on Japan whatsoever by the US.

Yet China and Japan are now in an alliance- they became allies very shortly after the Japanese actions of WW-3 (and the atrocities done during that time as well).

That and the Post-WWIII reconstruction basically destroyed the old culture of Japan and made a new, modern one, quite similar to the way (RL) the old Chinese culture was destroyed when the Communists took over.

unlikely, the Armenians have 1,000 years worth of hatred of the Turks and longer hatred of Moslems. Russia is viewed (in real life) as a protector in a lot of ways (Orthodox Christians both)

Guessing the Georgians would be the same? What about Kurdistan?

Guessing the Georgians would be the same?

remember they are the same country in this RP (although would have the same reasons)

But what compelling reason do they have to change sides at this point? Russia has been helping them according to economic thread. Cultural and religious ties plus economic ties do not in my view seem likely to cause Armenia to change sides.

China and Japan were different in terms of cultural and religious ties (and been that way for centuries). China and Japan were economic partners (from 1900's) to the Japanese invasion in the 1930's. Then Japan turned on China in the 1930's despite being allies previously (1900 to 1930's) and economic stuff.

Then despite all this, Japan "switched sides" once again after WW-3, allying with China once again despite the cultural, religious, and economic stuff.

Guessing the Georgians would be the same? What about Kurdistan?

The Kurds hate the Turks just as much, although probably not as much as in RL. Still, aside from conquest, I really see no way.

Oh and Georgia is part of Armenia.

Don't know how you keep up with all these posts, I didn't have time to edit mine before you responded.

What about the Kurds?

maybe we should all get on Chatzy *cough*

http://www.chatzy.com/921930878279

Don't know how you keep up with all these posts, I didn't have time to edit mine before you responded.

What about the Kurds?

good question, they would probably follow the UIR lead. They hate the Turks, but not as bad as in our timeline (less repression, got their state early on). However the Russians are far away and so is the SCT and Scandic Union, so they may simply chose continued neutrality.

good question, they would probably follow the UIR lead. They hate the Turks, but not as bad as in our timeline (less repression, got their state early on). However the Russians are far away and so is the SCT and Scandic Union, so they may simply chose continued neutrality.

Technically, the SCT is right next door to the Kurds, as the UIR is a member of the SCT.

I would officially like to ask to be able to rejoin as Saudi Arabia.

I would officially like to ask to be able to rejoin as Saudi Arabia.

I'm more than happy to have Kordo back from his hiatus. I'd like him to resume playing in E20, and he can play Saudi Arabia.

I gather he wants to get into the little crisis in the Middle East. Well welcome back man.

Saudi Arabia doesn't exist, he could be Western Arabia or Oman(which is much more influencial/powerfull in this timeline as a U.S. ally).

Saudi Arabia doesn't exist, he could be Western Arabia or Oman(which is much more influencial/powerfull in this timeline as a U.S. ally).

Western Arabia is Mecca/Medina/Jiddah and the desert in that area (and coastal zone) while across the desert from it is Saudi Arabia (probably called something else now after the House of Saud fell) and then we have Oman, along with Yemen

SA joined Baghdad to become the Arab Fed.

Can i rejoin as well?(Independent Macedonia) Sorry for the circumstances of me leaving. Is Yugoslavia still around?

Can i rejoin as well?(Independent Macedonia) Sorry for the circumstances of me leaving. Is Yugoslavia still around?


I think it might have gotten broken up...

But welcome back! I'm playing Nigeria right now.

Can i rejoin as well?(Independent Macedonia) Sorry for the circumstances of me leaving. Is Yugoslavia still around?

Sure- I'd be happy to have you back. The more, the merrier.

Yugoslavia is still around as a nation- its listed in the list of NPC nations on the first post of this thread.

Yugoslavia still lives, although it is relatively weak

Can i get some basic info like it's tech level, population post nukes, current military forces, that sort of stuff? Plus any other info on what may have changed since i left would be nice.

Tech level wise, most of the world is 7-7.5.

Tech Level 7, population 11 million, some french military equipment, that's all I know

:D

Hmm... Yugoslavia is pretty weak now, since Kosovo is part of Albania, Macedonia is part of Greece and Slovenia is part of Italy.

You might want to be someone else, like Greece is a lot stronger and its fascist.

You could also be Rumania, Czechoslovakia, (is Italy still around?) or Spain.

Although, we could have some fun with Greece :p