NationStates Jolt Archive

So the big question is this: who plays the USA now?

We certainly can't have it as an NPC, as the US still has the world's most powerful military.

Can I join as the Grand Duchy Of Luxembourg? I asked earlier and never got approval...

Considering that the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg does not exist in this RP, I'm thinking no.

He means Burgundy I'm guessing, although we told him it was Burgundy last time he asked, so I'd have thought he'd have learnt.

Can I join as the Grand Duchy Of Luxembourg? I asked earlier and never got approval...

Sorry no one answered, you picked a pretty chaotic time to join in, a lot going on right now in the world. Tg Sharina if he doesn respond to this soon. Also, It'd be Burgundy not Luxembourg.


So the big question is this: who plays the USA now?

We certainly can't have it as an NPC, as the US still has the world's most powerful military

I vote that if GB leaves America it should remain a locked NPC. No one else has the ability or knowledge to rp the complexity of the situation America is in. As far as America's strong military, it doesn't matter as America is going to be to busy with internal problems to look outward for awhile, and GB is still here to handle it as an NPC.

Sharina, you bear a great deal of responsibility for what happened to China

1. China historically was allied against the US in the 2nd Great War, and was considered a military threat up until the time the Union and Japan attacked you. Only then did you change sides, and only because you were attacked.

2. Immediately after the 3rd Great War you began a massive arms build up, which triggered a US response. The US military post war and up until about 1955 was large, but not directed at anyone particularly. It was large enough to ensure the Germans didn’t get pushy in Europe, and to try to keep the peace. Then you started deploying large numbers of bombers, and the US massively increased its forces in response.

3. Then the SCT, which China is the principal member state and the principal economic and military power, began moving on Russia. USAE statements notwithstanding, in the view of the US, CHINA was responsible for ensuring its allies did not threaten aggressive war.

4. OOC, we all know you allowed the Indochinese to act for you.

5. The SCT went from being an economic trade pact to the largest military alliance (in terms of population) on the planet.

6. At the beginning of the RP, and several times since, I told you and everyone else that the basic strategic policy in real life of the United States is this
A. US domination of the Americas to ensure no threat of invasion exists from the south. The FNS was never a threat in that fashion, nor did it or does it have the population base to be one as long as Central America and the Caribbean remain buffer states and Brazil is separate from Spanish South America.
B. No power in Europe so dominates at to threaten the Americas from the Atlantic. Which is why the US fought the Union twice and went all out to defeat it.
C. No power in Asia so dominates as to threaten the Americas from the Pacific. Once again, 2 wars against the Union and the ultimate destruction of the SCT as a military power.

7. Throughout this game the US has followed that strategy.

8. You decided to launch a massive military buildup that if completed, would have given the SCT parity with the Oceanic Alliance in nuclear weapons, and absolute superiority in conventional air and ground military power. You also said OOC that you planned to build a fleet to match the OA. That aside, in IC terms, the US was fully capable of realizing the SCT could and would build a fleet to match the OA. Remember what I just said about US policy toward Asia, and consider how the US was bound to react eventually.

9. Once the US began panicking, but before the coup took place, China made NO attempt to justify its position in the UN, or through direct talks, nor did you do anything besides stop building missiles. OOC I told you Sunday that the US was going to freak out. You could have made policy statements, diplomatic offensives, etc. But you made No statements to the world press, no statements to the UN, no attempt at an emergency summit. In short, as far as the world knew, the Chinese were building a huge number of missiles in a bid for nuclear parity so its conventional military numbers would give it domination of Asia and eventually global supremacy.

10. Historically, the US has always had a significant element of right wing extremism as part of its national fabric. Real life current events should be enough to demonstrate that, but also remember Reagan became President because of the perception of the American people that the US was weak and had many enemies, the John Birch Society got started in the 1950s in reaction to the perceived threat of communism, the US conducted a massive military buildup in the 1950s because of the Korean War and continued perception of Soviet threats, the Cuban Missile Crisis nearly resulted in a full scale nuclear war that would have seen a holocaust far worse then what China suffered in this game because of perceived Soviet threats, and in that real life situation, the US military on several occasions nearly started shooting and only tight control prevented it from doing so. Even then, most of Kennedy’s advisors wanted to attack, not trusting the blockade to work.

11. The Cold War in real life was the single most dangerous time in world history to date. 2 major power blocs, armed to the teeth, deeply suspicious of the other. But they talked, and made sure the other did not misunderstand what the other was doing so that war could be prevented, or at least waged through proxies. Even then on several occasions it damn near blew up in the worlds face.

12. In the context of the game, the US saw the SCT arm itself massively, then threaten Russia, begin to interfere in the Middle East and cost the US 2 major allies (Japan and the Philippines) in what in all appearances was an attempt to unify Asia just 20 years after the US fought 2 wars to prevent a single power from dominating Asia. The US therefore build up a massive missile arsenal to ensure that the SCT couldn’t attack without facing destruction. Then you attempted to match that, and upped the ante. Instead of building missiles that were equal to the US missiles, which I asked you about and never got a satisfactory answer, you built inferior missiles that in the end instead of providing deterrence, provided ultimate motivation to destroy the threat at once while it was still possible.

You would have been better served to wait until you had missiles equal the Americans, and gradually increased their number so that the Americans would have no reason to worry unduly. As far as the US was concerned, adding 800 missiles in one year, with no policy discussions, world press releases etc, meant that China was going to CONTINUE to add missiles until it had not only conventional, but nuclear superiority as well.

So the Right panicked and the Center had no room to maneuver to discredit or persuade them not to act. And China and Indochina were destroyed as military and industrial powers for the short term.

Can I join as the Grand Duchy Of Luxembourg? I asked earlier and never got approval...

only if you understand, as its been said a couple of times, that there is no Luxembourg. There is Burgundy, which consists of Luxembourg, Alsace and Lorraine and has since 1906 in this RP

-Snip-
Read the UN thread

Forgive the layman's perspective, but is China's responsibility for what happened even remotely relevant? It's not as though the world is going to turn around and blame China, so it's something for historians to debate. Let's concern ourselves for what happens next.

Forgive the layman's perspective, but is China's responsibility for what happened even remotely relevant? It's not as though the world is going to turn around and blame China, so it's something for historians to debate. Let's concern ourselves for what happens next.

Dito, though I think it's unfair to blame China for this stuff. As Sharina said again and again China only did a build up because they wanted to be able to defend themselves. The SCT had no means to attack the US...

Dito, though I think it's unfair to blame China for this stuff. As Sharina said again and again China only did a build up because they wanted to be able to defend themselves. The SCT had no means to attack the US...

Thats OOC info, Iccly America was pushed into it, their place was threatened and they acted just as they have this entire century to date.

Thats OOC info, Iccly America was pushed into it, their place was threatened and they acted just as they have this entire century to date.

Threatened? China had much fewer weapons than the US did and as such could never have faced them in a nuclear exchange.

The USEA had none whatsoever capabel of reaching American soil!

war is not about actual capabilities, but about perceptions and misunderstandings

What happened to Sharina is part of the game. Don't confuse IC with OOC.


incidently, game time is still January 23, as something else is happening in the world that I can't get to until tonight involving the situation in the Aegean

Threatened? China had much fewer weapons than the US did and as such could never have faced them in a nuclear exchange.

The USEA had none whatsoever capabel of reaching American soil!

yes, you were a victim

I might be droping out guys. My economy would of been totaly destoryed by radiation and the winds would of spread radiation to my nation. Now I had a big task to begin with, and I was somewhat counting on international support to get my ball rolling. But I just dont see any fun in playing for a month just to get what I had back, and then many more months (Ie. Year or so) before I'm able to actually do anything. To me this is really boring and not worth it. I have a lot of other RPs and the only reason I joined this one was that I thought it would be realistic and I thought it would be fun. Both of these have just gone out the window.

Sry guys, but I still havent made my decision yet.

EDIT: When doing an RP, even a realistic one, it's important to strive for realism yes, but if that realism takes the fun and worthwhile out of the RP, then it shouldn't be done. Believe it not, but we all write here for entertainment, and being able to do nothing for several real life months is not my definition of haveing a good time.

Threatened? China had much fewer weapons than the US did and as such could never have faced them in a nuclear exchange.

The USEA had none whatsoever capabel of reaching American soil!

China had over a thousand warheads that could hit America plus hundreds of bombers that with Tanker support could also reach the U.S. On top of that China anounced a plan to build 800 or so more missiles (Another 4,000 warheads). And while China stopped the building program once the coup happened, they never once tried to inform America or the world that they stopped instead hoping America would notice, when it takes time to notice a thing like that and with a low intensity civil war basically going on, America wasn't in much of a position to evaluate intel reports or even get them.

A united Asia with over 5,000 warheads, hundreds of nuclear capable bombers, and a massive superiority in conventional terms and economical terms, that is a threat. I would have launched if I was playing America, and I probaly wouldn't have limited myself to a short term elimination of just military targets.

China had over a thousand warheads that could hit America plus hundreds of bombers that with Tanker support could also reach the U.S. On top of that China anounced a plan to build 800 or so more missiles (Another 4,000 warheads). And while China stopped the building program once the coup happened, they never once tried to inform America or the world that they stopped instead hoping America would notice, when it takes time to notice a thing like that and with a low intensity civil war basically going on, America wasn't in much of a position to evaluate intel reports or even get them.

A united Asia with over 5,000 warheads, hundreds of nuclear capable bombers, and a massive superiority in conventional terms and economical terms, that is a threat. I would have launched if I was playing America, and I probaly wouldn't have limited myself to a short term elimination of just military targets.

China did not have the tanker support for those bombers, Maybe only 200 bombers had the required tanker support.
China did in fact tell the world of it's intention to stop missile production, however the Americans paid no notice as they were too focused on internal matters. The men responsible for launching the attacks might have known, but they probably didn't care.

200 bombers plus the missiles is more than enough to cripple America and kill tens of millions.

China had over a thousand warheads that could hit America plus hundreds of bombers that with Tanker support could also reach the U.S. On top of that China anounced a plan to build 800 or so more missiles (Another 4,000 warheads). And while China stopped the building program once the coup happened, they never once tried to inform America or the world that they stopped instead hoping America would notice, when it takes time to notice a thing like that and with a low intensity civil war basically going on, America wasn't in much of a position to evaluate intel reports or even get them.

A united Asia with over 5,000 warheads, hundreds of nuclear capable bombers, and a massive superiority in conventional terms and economical terms, that is a threat. I would have launched if I was playing America, and I probaly wouldn't have limited myself to a short term elimination of just military targets.

That works both ways, how many warheads did the combined OA and Commonwelth have? I bet you quiet possible the same number. IRL Russia had more nukes than the US almost for the entire second half of the Cold War, but America didnt nuke them for that. Both nations had more than enough warheads to destroy the entire world two times over. But no nation was nuked because of it.

200 bombers plus the missiles is more than enough to cripple America and kill tens of millions.

.... And the American arsenal was enough to turn the whole of Asia into a desert wasteland. Yet we didn't start trying to wipe ou the Americans, or even ask them to reduce their arms (Which they wouldn't have and you know it.)
America decided it didn't want to live in peace with Asia and we were fucked as soon as they realised that.

A question is who will be next. Scandinavia?

Ok let me put it this way to everyone. I've read on possible scenarios that could happen had the US actually launched its preplanned assault on the Soviet Union during the Cuban Missle Crisis. Weather wise, yes the Northern Hemesphere is going to take a beating. But in actuality, the SOuthern Hemisphere would get off quite light. All descriptions of fallout will hit Japan due to Easterly Winds that are common in the area. But areas like the Philippines, Indonesia, and Australia would actually get a mild fallout due to the direction of the winds. ANd nuclear fallout is all about which way the wind blows. ANd it blows east. So in actuallity the SOuthern Hemisphere gets off lightly.

As for the entire part of the war, yes it's possible the US would do it. But I want to make clear, and I am going to have my country state it clearly, the US would be ostracised by it's allies and it's enemies. The US would be economically sanctioned, embargoed, and the world would allow CHina aggrieved status, which means hefty fines on the US as a violent nation. THey'd lose their UN status, and would be a pariah in the world community. THat's a fact. A pure and simple fact. And if we are making it an NPC nation, that's exactly what would happen.

As for the entire part of the war, yes it's possible the US would do it. But I want to make clear, and I am going to have my country state it clearly, the US would be ostracised by it's allies and it's enemies. The US would be economically sanctioned, embargoed, and the world would allow CHina aggrieved status, which means hefty fines on the US as a violent nation. THey'd lose their UN status, and would be a pariah in the world community. THat's a fact. A pure and simple fact. And if we are making it an NPC nation, that's exactly what would happen.

Thats going to all happen.

Guys, quite overeacting, what's done is done..deal with it..besides, it wasn't that bad as it could have been, keep that in mind..

Ehh, I just want to make sure the political costs are good and proper, that's all.

Guys, quite overeacting, what's done is done..deal with it..besides, it wasn't that bad as it could have been, keep that in mind..

I could also have been much better.....
with roughly the same result.

Ehh, I just want to make sure the political costs are good and proper, that's all.
Yeah, of course that needed to be deal with.

I personally belive the GB should be forced to Role-Play USA and take responcibility for his actions. He crippled Shar and the Wolrd is crippleing him. He should not have the luxury of switching nations just because it's convient for him to do so.

I personally belive the GB should be forced to Role-Play USA and take responcibility for his actions. He crippled Shar and the Wolrd is crippleing him. He should not have the luxury of switching nations just because it's convient for him to do so.

To be fair me and Sharina could switch nations, though me and Sharina both find that a bit... cheap.

Yea, and isnt it cheap that GB gets to switch nations and not really take responcibility for what he's done?

Yea, and isnt it cheap that GB gets to switch nations and not really take responcibility for what he's done?

It is slightly, it it were me I would have stayed. Each to his own though.

But should we allow something that unfair? He laid his bed, shouldn't he lie in it?

Yea, and isnt it cheap that GB gets to switch nations and not really take responcibility for what he's done?

Seconded.

No. Just no. Having Galveston Bay as the world's superpower is unfair because, let's face it, he's the mod. American forces have not, as far as I know, ever lost a major battle. Not in all the history of E20. He needs to switch countries, because every time the USA wins a war, whether it was a fair win or not, this roleplay loses credibility.

But if Sharina, Ato-Sara, or anybody else wants to switch nations, I think that they should be allowed to. No sense in keeping someone in a nation he/she won't enjoy.

I agree whole heartedly with Middle Snu, no-one should be forced to stay with any nation, that would be unfair. It's best with GB not being the world's greatest super power as then he can truely be seen to be a neutral mod, especially with Ireland with it's neutrality in almost every conflict (except against the UK!). If Sharina or anyone wat all wants to switch it should be up to them.

No. Just no. Having Galveston Bay as the world's superpower is unfair because, let's face it, he's the mod. American forces have not, as far as I know, ever lost a major battle. Not in all the history of E20. He needs to switch countries, because every time the USA wins a war, whether it was a fair win or not, this roleplay loses credibility.

But if Sharina, Ato-Sara, or anybody else wants to switch nations, I think that they should be allowed to. No sense in keeping someone in a nation he/she won't enjoy.

And do you think it adds credibility when GB nukes China? No it doesnt.

No. Just no. Having Galveston Bay as the world's superpower is unfair because, let's face it, he's the mod. American forces have not, as far as I know, ever lost a major battle. Not in all the history of E20. He needs to switch countries, because every time the USA wins a war, whether it was a fair win or not, this roleplay loses credibility.

But if Sharina, Ato-Sara, or anybody else wants to switch nations, I think that they should be allowed to. No sense in keeping someone in a nation he/she won't enjoy.

I forgot that point. America is like God in this RP.

And do you think it adds credibility when GB nukes China? No it doesnt.

ooc
USSNA, you have voiced your opinion, and the older players (as in the ones who have been here the longest) in this RP disagree. So you can play the situation as it is, or not. Its up to you. Constant harping and complaining are not constructive however.

Galveston Bay did not nuke China. The US nuked China, and Galveston Bay and Sharina were the players involved. There are solid IC reasons why it occured, with a plausable and possible scenario, and it has played out. OOC reasons were not an issue.

If you want to get technical, Sharina placed his 1963 a week late, well after the US builds, and that wasn't fair either. That skewed things badly, as the US would have spent all of 1963 attempting to pressure the Chinese into not building up its nuclear arsenal. Because of the late builds, that didn't happen.

So lets not talk abouts whats fair.

Hey all remember me?


I'm going into my .02 cents just because, I felt I like it.


GB has done everything in this game possible to make the US into the power that it is, he's seen every potential rival, from the Union, to Germany, to China destroyed. And the USA has comparitevly gotten off light. Every time, they've won every conflict they've been involved in, nothing major has gone wrong to them(you can talk about WWIII till your blue in the face, it didn't mean dick, the US wasn't crippled by WMD attacks) And what have you all done, bought his explanations because he's smart and knowledgeable, i don't deny that he is. But I do believe E20 was crippled when he slowly began taking over this RP. And by the time anyone realized what was happening the RP had become RELIANT on him. He made sure of it.



And at this point i've said my piece or part of it. I'm outta here I got to go to class

No. Just no. Having Galveston Bay as the world's superpower is unfair because, let's face it, he's the mod. American forces have not, as far as I know, ever lost a major battle. Not in all the history of E20. He needs to switch countries, because every time the USA wins a war, whether it was a fair win or not, this roleplay loses credibility.

But if Sharina, Ato-Sara, or anybody else wants to switch nations, I think that they should be allowed to. No sense in keeping someone in a nation he/she won't enjoy.

I agree with you Middle Snu (which is why I tried to talk you into playing the US when you came back). Simply put, I have a lot more knowledge, experience and information than the rest of you because I am twice the age or more then nearly all of you, and have been playing the strongest economic power. Added in to the fact that I have been wargaming longer then nearly all of you have been alive, and its an unfair advantage. So the US will be an NPC for now until an experienced player in this RP wants to play it, and even then, a few game years need to pass.

Hey all remember me?


I'm going into my .02 cents just because, I felt I like it.


GB has done everything in this game possible to make the US into the power that it is, he's seen every potential rival, from the Union, to Germany, to China destroyed. And the USA has comparitevly gotten off light. Every time, they've won every conflict they've been involved in, nothing major has gone wrong to them(you can talk about WWIII till your blue in the face, it didn't mean dick, the US wasn't crippled by WMD attacks) And what have you all done, bought his explanations because he's smart and knowledgeable, i don't deny that he is. But I do believe E20 was crippled when he slowly began taking over this RP. And by the time anyone realized what was happening the RP had become RELIANT on him. He made sure of it.



And at this point i've said my piece or part of it. I'm outta here I got to go to class

Your right, its completely GB's fault that the Chinese didn't launch back. Its his fault the Indochinese didn't fire to, he forced them to not fire. Your exactly right, what was GB doing letting those Asian's not fire back at him?

You quit this rp because you didn't agree with things here, fine, I'd rather have you here but can't change that. But since you quit, stay out unless you plan on rejoining. I don't want to see this rp torn apart by people who aren't even members of it after I've spent over a year working on this thing.

I agree with you Middle Snu (which is why I tried to talk you into playing the US when you came back). Simply put, I have a lot more knowledge, experience and information than the rest of you because I am twice the age or more then nearly all of you, and have been playing the strongest economic power. Added in to the fact that I have been wargaming longer then nearly all of you have been alive, and its an unfair advantage. So the US will be an NPC for now until an experienced player in this RP wants to play it, and even then, a few game years need to pass.

GB's been trying to get rid of America for 20 in game years so people would stop accusing him of bias. He's asked plenty of people to take over and no one wanted to.

Sry guys, I've recently found out how this Role-play works. Not even being able to role-play your own military forces, getting nuked, and whatnot.

This looked like a very promising RP, but the further I dived in, the uglier it got. Maybe if there wasnt so much godmoding, but of well. Cya

the other shoe has dropped

War in the Aegean
January 23, 1964
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=489730

Ehh either way I am gonna go play with Australia while you all sort this out.

Economic avalanche

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11258268&postcount=1419

China had over a thousand warheads that could hit America plus hundreds of bombers that with Tanker support could also reach the U.S. On top of that China anounced a plan to build 800 or so more missiles (Another 4,000 warheads). And while China stopped the building program once the coup happened, they never once tried to inform America or the world that they stopped instead hoping America would notice, when it takes time to notice a thing like that and with a low intensity civil war basically going on, America wasn't in much of a position to evaluate intel reports or even get them.

A united Asia with over 5,000 warheads, hundreds of nuclear capable bombers, and a massive superiority in conventional terms and economical terms, that is a threat. I would have launched if I was playing America, and I probaly wouldn't have limited myself to a short term elimination of just military targets.

GB told me on Sunday that the "time for talk" had passed so I was led to believe that there was no way for China to convince or hold diplomatic stuff with the USA.

If the "time for talk" didn't pass according to GB, then I would have pursured diplomatic talks with the US- and if the US felt threatened by China, it should have asked "China, why are you building the nukes" or some stuff like that, and even "If you continue the buildup, we will be forced to take action".

Then *THAT* would have given me the chance to have diplomatic talks with the US and prevent the nuclear attack from happening in the first place.

Besides, if my laptop had not melted down last week, I would have been able to post my 1963 build, THEN have the US and such warn China about the nuclear build-up in 1963. This whole crisis could have been averted. But alas, RL problems got in the way (my laptop).

I was up for diplomacy but wasn't contacted by the US.

figuring up damage ... starting with USAE first (as its is smaller)

time for talk discussion was actually Monday, not Sunday

You posted builds Monday during the day, and could have attempted discussions Sunday or Monday, or even first thing yesterday morning as you were online before I was

figuring up damage ... starting with USAE first (as its is smaller)

time for talk discussion was actually Monday, not Sunday

You posted builds Monday during the day, and could have attempted discussions Sunday or Monday, or even first thing yesterday morning as you were online before I was

I posted my builds on Monday evening, which gave me only a very short period of time between the posting of my builds, the subsquent Chatzy discussion, and my login in the morning. Then when I logged on yesterday night at around 12 AM or so, I'm flooded with information and "The US has launched nuclear weapons" before I could really respond (OOC and in RL). I can't really think on the fly, never been good at that. When I'm faced with super-serious crisis like that with a very short timeframe to do it, I panic and I usually need more time than 12 hours (including my sleep Monday night) before to really think up solutions to these kinds of crisises.

In short, if this nuclear stuff was put off for an extra day and had the attacks happen tonight (on Wed. night) then I probably would have had the time I needed to think of solutions like diplomacy (although GB said "time for talk has passed" made me believe that the diplomacy solution was out of the question).

To compare, in the Siberian Crisis, I had plenty of time to think out solutions, do diplomacy, and stuff as the crisis occurred over several days, not a 24 hour period.

To the various players with nations that are, or appear to be, unplayable for the signifigant future (GB, Sharina, Ato-Sara, or Middle Snu, who I've heard good things about), if any of you want to take over as Russia (a demotion on the power ladder from China or the US maybe, but more powerful than Ireland or the radioactive wastelands you now play) I'd gladly go back to Syria. Playing a big, powerful nation is great, but part of why I switched was the opposite of why you might. My economy was maxed across the board, and I was just twiddling my thumbs, with nearly identical builds from year to year (social services, some research, the rest to ALSA) However, at this point there's stuff worth going back to. Come to think of it, one of you could play Syria if you don't want Russia. If you're interested, TG me or post here, and I'll give you some information on the current state of things, how I was planning on taking it, etc.

This is why nuclear weapons shouldn't be allowed. It makes stuff too stupid.

This is why nuclear weapons shouldn't be allowed. It makes stuff too stupid.
Nuclear weapons are a fact of life, deal with it. Besides its only game..don't take it too hard.

You got this attitude thing goin on don't ya? WHo are you anyways?

You got this attitude thing goin on don't ya? WHo are you anyways?

Ottoman is one of the original players in this RP

So why is he so bitter as someone just stating an opinion? I mean I stated the concern for embargos and he instantly bites my head off.

Thats just the way he is, he's like that with everyone.

Well personally from what I see this RP is starting to teeter rather nastily here, and he's not helping.

Thats just the way he is, he's like that with everyone.
Yep and yes, I am old bitter player...who isn't nice so bah. And also I am currently the adviser to a number of nations in this game and the player behind morroco.

Well personally from what I see this RP is starting to teeter rather nastily here, and he's not helping.

The rp is fine. No ones quiting, the USSNA doesn't really count considering he was here for a day.

Still if you look at it, people are getting very annoyed. ANd has anyone seen Haneastic? As for the econ thing, I redid the math and that's what I got. It's 32%. WIth every cut on each individual stuff.

Still if you look at it, people are getting very annoyed. ANd has anyone seen Haneastic? As for the econ thing, I redid the math and that's what I got. It's 32%. WIth every cut on each individual stuff.

Hnaeastic is off somewhere, all Japan stuff should be directed to me.

Sooooooooooooo exactly who isn't in the crap hole?

I leave for two days...and Strom Thurmond induces atomic war. Great. At least I'm one of the lucky ones.

I leave for two days...and Strom Thurmond induces atomic war. Great. At least I'm one of the lucky ones.

At times like this I am incredibly happy the Indian sub-continent is surrounded on sides by mountains (well, except for the coastal part, but the winds of the Bay of Bengal dont blow up towards India and Bangladesh). No fallout is gonna hit me! The crops shall be slightly damaged, but not much.

At times like this I am incredibly happy the Indian sub-continent is surrounded on sides by mountains (well, except for the coastal part, but the winds of the Bay of Bengal dont blow up towards India and Bangladesh). No fallout is gonna hit me! The crops shall be slightly damaged, but not much.

Lucky SOB. Still, I find it funny a Cabal of warmongers led by Strom Thurmond started this. Sounds sorta like Dr. Strangelove, but its less funny and involves many crazies, not one.

Pity it didn't last longer before the nuking. I was going to try to get the OA to launch a mission to reinstate Kennedy. I was also hoping (dreaming) of getting Alaska back.

Nuclear Autumn.. part 1
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11261592&postcount=1442

also special rules for dealing with the global economic crash

Hi all, just wondering about a few things, im pretty interested in this idea and RP. I haven't RPed for a long time now, but i have done about 3 or 4 in the past(obviously with different nations lol), and since then i like to kid myself that i would have got better :D.

Anyway, im interested in how much time i would have to spend RPing to actually get anywhere and manage my nation. I am not looking to spend masses of time in game(and in fact could not join for about two weeks at least as i will be going away soon) but i would be interested in joining after that. Another issue would be that i will be going on holiday and away later on for at least a couple of weeks in say the next two/three months.

Well, you need to put a fair amount of work in, especially on mondays, but I'm sure someone could take over the running of your country for a while if you go away. Which nation were you thinking of taking?

Well, you need to put a fair amount of work in, especially on mondays, but I'm sure someone could take over the running of your country for a while if you go away. Which nation were you thinking of taking?

Well i don't mind too much, i can probably work at it before monday right? Im not sure which nation, are all the NPC nations free??

If so maybe a relativly small nation which can stay out of harms way but with a resonable economy to keep up and able to do a bit of mischief if i feel the need ;)

I think they're free, yeah.

Well, you need to put a fair amount of work in, especially on mondays, but I'm sure someone could take over the running of your country for a while if you go away. Which nation were you thinking of taking?

approval is needed to join in from myself or Sharina. What nation are you wanting specifically. Make sure you familerize yourself with some of the history of this alternate 20th Century by reading the various threads

Russia is democracy and is allied to America in this timeline. We've had three World Wars, the third one including the fairly widespread use of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons in Russia, China, India and North America. It ended with the Union(Russia and Germany plus a few European allies and the Ottoman Empire, known as the MEU then) being overrun by the LTA(Pretty much the rest of the world). Basically, the Union was torn apart and Germany and Russia became seperate nations, Poland, the Ukraine, Estonia, Finland, the CAR were all given independance from Russia. Finldnad and Estonia then joined the Scandic Union(Basically all of Scandinavia)

In the Middle East the MEU(reborn Otoman Empire) was also torn apart into various Arab nations(In this timeline the Jews never fled to Palestine, no Holocaust). Differences from real being, a Kurdistan was created, Iraq was split into Sunni(Baghdad) and Shiite(Basra) halves as was Saudi Arabia. Palestine got split between Egypt, Jordan and Syria(Which also controls Lebanon).


Fast forwarding to now, the world is split into a couple camps. Theres the OA(Oceanic Alliance) which is basically a reborn LTA, its main members include America, Britian and the commonwealth and the FNS(A South American Union) among others. Though right now they are pushing for a major expansion program to include a couple dozen more nations.

Then theres the SCT(Seol Conference Treaty) which is basically the Asians-China, Korea, Japan, the Philipines, India, exc. Them and the OA don't get along much, specifically China and America.

In the Middle East theres the Arab League mostly dominated by Egypt. The Middle East is still the hot spot it is today, although there isn't much in the way of terrorism on E20, what terrorism we've seen has actually been limited to Russia.

Then there's the CSPS, my alliance. Its a regional alliance mostly, it includes Me(the SU), Poland, the Ukraine, and the various Turkic nations. It was originally created as a defense treaty(Mostly with Russia and Germany in mind) and an economic organization.

In Europe there's the EEC, which is kind of like todays EU minus most of Eastern Europe. It is mostly an economic and space exploration thing, but they did recently add in a mutual defense claus, and they are talking about merging with the OA.


Thats a basic overview.

And recently USA (which was temporarily under the control of a cabal) nuked China, with China apparently not hitting back, being unable to do so. So both countries are currently in chaos.

I think they're free, yeah.

In that case maybe Ghana or Senegal? IMO their pretty much out of the way, but i don't want some really poor economy....ohhh. Anyone have any suggestions?

Brazil? I think the guy has left...
Or Greece maybe?
btw about the first page; the Brazil thread link doesn't work, and its not clear which one of south america threads is for FNS. Also, how come Paraguay isn't part of FNS. Canada is listed as a NPC.

In that case maybe Ghana or Senegal? IMO their pretty much out of the way, but i don't want some really poor economy....ohhh. Anyone have any suggestions?

Senegal is a good choice, look at the most recent page of the economic thread for information on Senegal.. Lesser Ribenia has been handling its economy

Senegal is a good choice, look at the most recent page of the economic thread for information on Senegal.. Lesser Ribenia has been handling its economy

Ok thanks, i'll check it out. read the thread, basically gathered all the info on the USA china thing with kenedy being different or something, pretty much all i need to know atm. I wouldn't want greece as currently its under attack, right? And so Brazil or senegal look cool, Brazil in particular as i lived there :D and Senegal because it seems pretty quiet to me.

Senegal usually has a pretty damn good economy (I run it) so that'd be a godd choice. Don't be fooled by the latest build though, everyone's is poor due to a depression currently (Domestic production is halved and tourism and trade are down to 25%). It is scheduled to increase in tech level in 1968 as well so that's good.

Senegal usually has a pretty damn good economy (I run it) so that'd be a godd choice. Don't be fooled by the latest build though, everyone's is poor due to a depression currently (Domestic production is halved and tourism and trade are down to 25%). It is scheduled to increase in tech level in 1968 as well so that's good.

What about Ghana? That also seems like a pretty good nation, which one do you think is best and is set to go up a tech level quickest? If brazil is free i wouldn't mind taking that....:)

, It'd be Burgundy not Luxembourg.

I know that - I wouldn't want to join as a nation I know nothing about (I happen to be half Luxembourgish ((if that's the correct English for it)) But, as this is an alternate history, I wanted to start off with an alternate Burgundy - The Grand Duchy Of Luxembourg.
But thanks anyway - if i'd been a newbie you would have been very helpful.

France (me) was paying social aid to Senegal up until this year, when aid was suspended due to the nuclear crisis.

But, as this is an alternate history, I wanted to start off with an alternate Burgundy - The Grand Duchy Of Luxembourg.

What? That makes no sense. Burgundy is essentially an enlarged Luxembourg.

France (me) was paying social aid to Senegal up until this year, when aid was suspended due to the nuclear crisis.

Would this carry on at a later date(say 1968?) If so i would be very interested as i would be more than happy to have someone who is friendly towards me and possibly, one day, i can repay.

Alright I have an OOC problem. I feel that GB has put too much into the US and has made it unapproachable inside the game. I feel that there is no way for them to be punished and I feel that it's in truth a godmode country. No allies and no trade and suddenly it would be the detriment to the world. Politically I believe he is wrong and am constantly feeling I am banging my head against a brick wall because he's the GM for all intent and purposes. Now I was told to do this in an OOC area and so here I have done it.

sigh. I am finally off my job for a day and I have to be gone for the rest of the evening. Family duties come first guys. Please dont let any more of the world blow up while I am gone. Please... pretty please?

That's up to those with nuclear weapons.

Alright I have an OOC problem. I feel that GB has put too much into the US and has made it unapproachable inside the game. I feel that there is no way for them to be punished and I feel that it's in truth a godmode country. No allies and no trade and suddenly it would be the detriment to the world. Politically I believe he is wrong and am constantly feeling I am banging my head against a brick wall because he's the GM for all intent and purposes. Now I was told to do this in an OOC area and so here I have done it.

I disagree with you on the points you are making. Plus, you don't like rulings regarding your country, so you decide to ignore them (according to your posts in economics thread and your thread). I state that the US will suffer the loss of up to 30% of its economy if a full embargo occurs, but also point out that its largest trading partners aren't going for it, so such an embargo is unlikely to occur, and you make personal attacks on my objectivity because you don't like the answer.

Are you out to punish me, or punish the US. This is a game. I am not willing to let you punish me for game actions that occured if that is your goal.

The US is currently an NPC nation, but in the course of this RP, NPC nations do not roll over and play dead just because a PC nation wants them to. They wouldn't in the real world and so they aren't going to here. Therefore, the US is not willing to roll over and let the world attack its economy without a fight. Now if the US was the Soviet Unon or the Union that existed earlier in the game, it could easily have conquered the world in the 1940s, and certainly could do so now by simply using its overwhelming nuclear and conventional force supremacy that it just got to do so. But that wouldn't be accurate or realistic.

So far the following has occured in the 3 game months since the events of January. The US has pulled out of Australia, left the Oceanic Alliance and UN, and announced that it was acting in China whether anyone complained or not, and would to allow interference in its actions. The FNS said it would support the US, the British said it wouldn't (a major ally), and other nations have kept quiet. Meanwhile, the Scandic Union and its allies are waging an aggressive war in the Mediterranean Sea.

The US pulled out of the Philippines without so much as a complaint upon request.

As a player, what exactly is your complaint?

sigh. I am finally off my job for a day and I have to be gone for the rest of the evening. Family duties come first guys. Please dont let any more of the world blow up while I am gone. Please... pretty please?

chuckle.. I am done with my part of blowing up the world.. but don't blame me if the Europeans do so

chuckle.. I am done with my part of blowing up the world.. but don't blame me if the Europeans do so
Wow..what a week.....the world largest nation gets nuke...but not competely wipe off the world and we have another European war...man this rp never stops to amaze me with the never-ending constant of massive wars.

As a player my complaint is that politically as a moral country the US has destroyed its representation. And the representation of a country is very important. Extremelly important when it comes to trade, diplomacy, and everything else. And when I have put forward this issues before they have become IC problems, I am either chewed out or told that it wouldn't matter anyways.

And I haven't ignored the economics. I lost 1/3rd of my economy. My growth was cut in half. And I took out all the percentages I was told to. I am truthfully trying to play fair here, and maybe it was a bad start because I got jumped on the instant I put forward my concerns by Ottoman, or maybe I'm too sensitive. BUt I truthfully want this all settled because I only want fairness. And if you believe I didn't ignored the economics, then would you be willing to check my math to see where I went wrong. And if I was correct to have that argument put to an end.

As a player my complaint is that politically as a moral country the US has destroyed its representation. And the representation of a country is very important. Extremelly important when it comes to trade, diplomacy, and everything else. And when I have put forward this issues before they have become IC problems, I am either chewed out or told that it wouldn't matter anyways.

And I haven't ignored the economics. I lost 1/3rd of my economy. My growth was cut in half. And I took out all the percentages I was told to. I am truthfully trying to play fair here, and maybe it was a bad start because I got jumped on the instant I put forward my concerns by Ottoman, or maybe I'm too sensitive. BUt I truthfully want this all settled because I only want fairness. And if you believe I didn't ignored the economics, then would you be willing to check my math to see where I went wrong. And if I was correct to have that argument put to an end.

oh there will be consequences in the US, but its only been 3 months, and the US suffered no appreciable physical damage. It suffered heavy damage to its morale, and its economy because of the Crash of 64. These things will cause major events in the US. But its not going to happen this year.

Look at the US Civil War... it took 200 years of slavery including 60 years under the constitution of the US. But when it finally happened, it ripped America apart and changed it forever. Along with the world.

Its not going to take that long for something to occur in this timeline, but it won't happen overnight either.

Alright, that's perfectly fair. And thank you for explaining it that way.

Now, the economics. Seriously my math sucks. If you want to check on it I won't feel insulted in any way. It took me three tries to pass College Algebra with a D. So when it comes to numbers I have to check myself constantly.

And the last item of business. Uhh how is time going to speciffically work? I mean I know it's all shortened, but to what? Like every two days is a month?

Alright, that's perfectly fair. And thank you for explaining it that way.

Now, the economics. Seriously my math sucks. If you want to check on it I won't feel insulted in any way. It took me three tries to pass College Algebra with a D. So when it comes to numbers I have to check myself constantly.

And the last item of business. Uhh how is time going to speciffically work? I mean I know it's all shortened, but to what? Like every two days is a month?

usually 1 day is 2 months. However, as we have the aftermath of the Holocaust to deal with, a war in the Aegean that not everyone has given me instructions for yet, and some other situations like massive debates in the UN, its kind of flexible at the moment. Really complex things sometimes take me considerable time to handle, and that can slow things down too.

The US/China exchange was handled in real time (as close as I could make it anyway) for example because I was trying to simulate the actual pressures that occur in real life nuclear crisis like the Cuban Missile Crisis, 1973 Yom Kippur War, Suez Crisis, etc

In those kind of situations, pressure causes real, world changing history making mistakes to be made. And thus they happened here. We haven't had that. Really, except for the 2nd and 3rd Great Wars, and especially since then, things have gone unrealistically well for the world. Complaints have been made regarding how well things were going by a number of players at various times.

So you have to admit, this does shake things up and offers a lot of alternatives for players to explore. It was rough on Sharina and Alto Sara, and I am sorry as a player and referee for that. But they are still in the game, and can recover their situation with time.

Or chose to play new nations and try other alternatives or options if they wish.

I wasn't trying to be mean as a player and referee. I was trying to be fair as possible and be as realistic as possible within the context of the game.

The US was dangerously close to far worse atrocities than actually occured in this game at least once, and almost came to an armegeddon show down with the Soviets once in the 70s and again in the 80s that would have made the nuclear exchange in this game a hiccup by comparision.

This world was not anywhere near as stable as the RL world was during the Cold War, and it finally exploded.

Wish I'd had more than 3 weeks to get prepped for it. Oh well it definetly killed US relations for me. So fluid time. Alrighty. Though in truth a little constructive critiscism. It might have been a good idea to do something in real time only when assured that the major players were able to be on. I mean Sharina not having a reliable computer does seem a little uncool. A recommendation might be that the next time you do this to make sure only to do it after checking to make sure that everyone directly involved is available.

By the way that 1980's incident. I'm trying to remember it. When the US had the large military exercises and the USSR thought it was actually prepping for a nuclear exchange and was on high alert. I forget the name of the incident. I remember that it was the closest since the Cuban Missile Crisis that the world went to nuclear war, except the difference was that one country was asleep and the other was hallucinating.

I distinctly remember the "Doomsday Clock" and it having various stages of countdown to demostrate how quickly or tense the nuclear situation got in RL. Something about "20 minutes to midnight" then turns to "6 minutes to midnight" and stuff like that.

Sorry that just reminds me of "2 Minutes to Midnight" by Iron Maiden.

I distinctly remember the "Doomsday Clock" and it having various stages of countdown to demostrate how quickly or tense the nuclear situation got in RL. Something about "20 minutes to midnight" then turns to "6 minutes to midnight" and stuff like that.

http://www.thebulletin.org/doomsday_clock/timeline.htm

Creepy, and the closest was 2 minutes to midnight in 1953. Cool.

Wish I'd had more than 3 weeks to get prepped for it. Oh well it definetly killed US relations for me. So fluid time. Alrighty. Though in truth a little constructive critiscism. It might have been a good idea to do something in real time only when assured that the major players were able to be on. I mean Sharina not having a reliable computer does seem a little uncool. A recommendation might be that the next time you do this to make sure only to do it after checking to make sure that everyone directly involved is available.

By the way that 1980's incident. I'm trying to remember it. When the US had the large military exercises and the USSR thought it was actually prepping for a nuclear exchange and was on high alert. I forget the name of the incident. I remember that it was the closest since the Cuban Missile Crisis that the world went to nuclear war, except the difference was that one country was asleep and the other was hallucinating.

yep, thats the one in the 80s. The one in the 70s is when Nixon took the US to Defcon 3 during the Yom Kippur war in 73

Gotcha.

Really, except for the 2nd and 3rd Great Wars, and especially since then, things have gone unrealistically well for the world. Complaints have been made regarding how well things were going by a number of players at various times.

Maybe they should try a Middle Eastern country on for size. I think our longest time of peace was right after the 3rd Great War and that's because TLS controlled Iran/Afghanistan/Pakistan/India while the rest of the Middle East was either too poor or weak to attack each other or was still a European puppet (or both in most cases).

Edit: I forgot that the Greek-Turkish War broke out in 1945. I actually think our longest period of peace was the time between the PLO attacks and the Federation Civil War.

Middle East Results of Civil War.

The Arab socialist forces push into Riyadh, having been supplied by Egyptian airdrops and over land routes, the populace having seen socialism as a new way forwards and generally supporting the advance. The conservative government tries to pull in forces from the countryside to defend the capital but the government buildings fall after a short but bloody struggle. Saddam proclaims a new republic in Arabia and the remaining pro-conservative troops gradually disappear into teh countryside, a few guerrila bands are put down by socialist forces and the new government put into place. The rest of the country gradually comes under socialist control and the war is officially over by mid February, having shown how a populace in need of reforms and a lightning strike by a foreign power to the centre of government can provide the catalyst for social change.

Well, i have finally decided that i shall stay out of this for two weeks, after that(1964 it will be then i think) i will come and take residence in Senagal if possible, it means that hopefully by then the nuclear strike will be less felt(although in RL it would leave a lasting effect for that whole generation and maybe their children) and i can get onto some nice RPing and nation building or whatever....

That, of course, is up to the refs, but i would be very interested if possible.

The rest of the country gradually comes under socialist control and the war is officially over by mid February, having shown how a populace in need of reforms and a lightning strike by a foreign power to the centre of government can provide the catalyst for social change.

Is the UN going to send points for reconstruction? I don't think my people would be too happy if I'm rebuilding Kordo's country while Sudan is filled with genocide and terrorism.
http://www.fallhillproductions.com/images/posted_images/bum.jpeg

Between the depression and the aid pouring into Asia, I don't think anyone has any extra points to go around.

Is the UN going to send points for reconstruction? I don't think my people would be too happy if I'm rebuilding Kordo's country while Sudan is filled with genocide and terrorism.
http://www.fallhillproductions.com/images/posted_images/bum.jpeg

Priceless. ;)

Nope, Britain and the Commonwealth are all spent up (between Asia, the depression and the trouble in the Aegean).

http://www.funnypictures2.com/albums/newbies/usuckattheinternet.jpg

America, try to snatch the golden disk of power from my Chinese monk's hand if you dare. ;)

I'd imagine Syria could spare a few points, especially since there aren't any powerful conservative nations to threaten/protect them anymore. I'll do NPC builds I'm in charge of after my build (which has to wait for my war orders)

I'm not sure of my internet time in the next few days until July 4th. I might be able to login here on NS and Chatzy, or not... it all depends on what my family and girlfriend wants to do.

So my posting and chatting might be sporadic in the next few days.

NOTE ON BELHALF OF TLS

Through TG, TLS has informed me that he is in the middle of a move from Panama to the US. He is physically done moving, but he won't be around for another 2-3 days at least.

Also, to let y'all know I won't be around from tommorow to the 5th. I've posted this in other threads, but its here for official purposes. I'll try to do everything before I leave (orders, builds, etc.)

game time is still slowed because of lots of complications, so it shouldn't be a problem

Alright, I'm here in my hotel room, with my internet and all, so I'm gonna be semi-functional, but not expect me to be on 12/7 like I am normally.

Alright, I'm here in my hotel room, with my internet and all, so I'm gonna be semi-functional, but not expect me to be on 12/7 like I am normally.

I heard you were moving back to the US? Are you back in the Boston area? When will you be back online on a permament basis?

Yeah, I'm not going to be able to get on for a few days for more than like 10 minutes, and I have plans for the Aegean at least. I'm still not sure what happened with America so I won't promise anything.

I'm kinda hoping it has only been like a week since the Turkish attack, cuz Germany is going to react immediately so we might have to go back in time.

Parthini']Yeah, I'm not going to be able to get on for a few days for more than like 10 minutes, and I have plans for the Aegean at least. I'm still not sure what happened with America so I won't promise anything.

I'm kinda hoping it has only been like a week since the Turkish attack, cuz Germany is going to react immediately so we might have to go back in time.

no going back in time at this point, things are confusing enough already. Figure Germany had considerable internal discussion before deciding to act and how, and then any action required some preparation time.

Its February 19 at the moment. I have been stalling for German, Russia, French etc reactions, and am moving slow myself because of RL commitments. At this point, one day is one day until at least after the 4th (as we Americans have a holiday then and many of us will be busy with families)

In late February as tensions explode across Europe and key Nigerian allies gear for war, the Nigerian military decides that the civilians have dithered enough. On February 19th the military, under the leadership of General Aguiyi-Ironsi, siezes control in Abuja. Infantry units storm the Presidental palace and parliament, placing the politicians under house arrest.

General Aguiyi-Ironsi declares himself temporary head of state until the economic and military crises are abated. He proceeds to order the military to full mobilization and announces Nigeria's support for Germany in the war against Turkey. In other words, war has been declared.

Messages are sent to Germany requesting assistance in transporting troops to the warzone. The Light Division is ordered onto the C123 transports for transport to Germany. The rest of the military is ordered to standby.

Nigeria's small navy (four destroyers, a light missile cruiser, and fleet carrier without aircrew) are ordered to rendevous with the German fleet in the Mediterranean for the time being.

Nigeria is at war.

GB, here's your list of upcoming major natural disasters. I only listed ones that did over $1 billion in damage and/or killed over 100,000 people since the smaller disasters probably won’t have in game effects. Probably the most important disasters are the 1965-67 Indian Drought (Lots of People Dying), the Sahelian Drought (caused a lot of political instability, especially in areas that are under UN control in E20), the Bhola Cyclone (Poor TLS), and the Heat Wave of 1980 (since the US exports food to a ton of countries).

1965 - Palm Sunday Tornado Outbreak - Unknown Amount of Damage (USA)
1965 to 67 - Drought in India - 1,500,000 Deaths (Pakistan)
1968 to 74 - Sahelian Drought - 250,000 Deaths (UN-occupied Africa, Ethiopia, etc.)
1969 - Hurricane Camille - Estimated $9,140,000,000 Damage (USA)
1970 - Ancash Earthquake - Over $500,000,000 Damage (FNS)
1970 - Bhola Cyclone - Unknown Damage (Over 600,000 deaths!, Pakistan)
1974 - The Super Outbreak - $3,500,000,000 Damage (US)
1974 - Cyclone Tracy - $4,730,000,000 Damage (Australasia)
1976 - Tangshan Earthquake – The PRC (Over 250,000 deaths!, China)
1980 - Mount Saint Helens Eruption - $1,100,000,000 (US)
1980 - Heat Wave of 1980 - $44,000,000,000 Crop Damage (US)
1980 - Hurricane Allen - $2,600,000,000 Damage (Caribbean Area)

If there are any major natural disasters I missed, just tell me.

GB, here's your list of upcoming major natural disasters. I only listed ones that did over $1 billion in damage and/or killed over 100,000 people since the smaller disasters probably won’t have in game effects. Probably the most important disasters are the 1965-67 Indian Drought (Lots of People Dying), the Sahelian Drought (caused a lot of political instability, especially in areas that are under UN control in E20), the Bhola Cyclone (Poor TLS), and the Heat Wave of 1980 (since the US exports food to a ton of countries).

1965 - Palm Sunday Tornado Outbreak - Unknown Amount of Damage (USA)
1965 to 67 - Drought in India - 1,500,000 Deaths (Pakistan)
1968 to 74 - Sahelian Drought - 250,000 Deaths (UN-occupied Africa, Ethiopia, etc.)
1969 - Hurricane Camille - Estimated $9,140,000,000 Damage (USA)
1970 - Ancash Earthquake - Over $500,000,000 Damage (FNS)
1970 - Bhola Cyclone - Unknown Damage (Over 600,000 deaths!, Pakistan)
1974 - The Super Outbreak - $3,500,000,000 Damage (US)
1974 - Cyclone Tracy - $4,730,000,000 Damage (Australasia)
1976 - Tangshan Earthquake – The PRC (Over 250,000 deaths!, China)
1980 - Mount Saint Helens Eruption - $1,100,000,000 (US)
1980 - Heat Wave of 1980 - $44,000,000,000 Crop Damage (US)
1980 - Hurricane Allen - $2,600,000,000 Damage (Caribbean Area)

If there are any major natural disasters I missed, just tell me.


the Nuclear Autumn may affect some of these. especially the ones coming up in the 1960s. The Sahallian drought actually might be much less damaging because of earlier industrialization in the Sub Sahara, and fewer substistance pastoralists

due to the really, really complex orders I have to deal with from multiple sources, I will game out events tomorrow.

Its going to be messy I will tell you that much

The Third World War was actually less complicated

by the way, as my TG box is about to runneth over... send me instructions and any detailed orders of battle to my email address

anthryax@yahoo.com

due to the really, really complex orders I have to deal with from multiple sources, I will game out events tomorrow.

Its going to be messy I will tell you that much

The Third World War was actually less complicated

by the way, as my TG box is about to runneth over... send me instructions and any detailed orders of battle to my email address


Sorry about that, I'll try to keep it to one tg. I have that bad habit of forgetting part of what I planned when I get into it.

someone has pushed the button... things are about to get pretty complicated

by the way, it wasn't me

You mean button as in nuclear button? Shit

Woah, I hope not. Don't look at me, it must have been the Turks if not the SU?

No, not me, all my orders are entirely conventional, I still have them saved in word. Maybe Egypt, he was mobilizing his nuclear forces?

someone has pushed the button... things are about to get pretty complicated

by the way, it wasn't me

(As Chuck Heston) "You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"

Rant over. Seriously, I'm starting to find this very, very irritating.

Meh, twas probably the US again.

No, not me, all my orders are entirely conventional, I still have them saved in word. Maybe Egypt, he was mobilizing his nuclear forces?

Perhaps, but I didn't think this would go nuclear at all. If it was Egypt then Britain may well pull out, can't be seen to be on the same side as someone who starts a nuclear war (well, not again anyway).

Meh, If this gets big can I withdraw aid to China? Presumably it's possible to reclaim for the parts of the year we have not entered yet, on a similar basis to military units turning up 8.33% per month, I could just not pay the quota for March through December and use it for other purposes? It won't make me any friends in Asia, but it could help me out a lot in Europe. If teh world doesn't collapse from the amount of nukes going off that is...

Perhaps, but I didn't think this would go nuclear at all. If it was Egypt then Britain may well pull out, can't be seen to be on the same side as someone who starts a nuclear war (well, not again anyway).

Meh, If this gets big can I withdraw aid to China? Presumably it's possible to reclaim for the parts of the year we have not entered yet, on a similar basis to military units turning up 8.33% per month, I could just not pay the quota for March through December and use it for other purposes? It won't make me any friends in Asia, but it could help me out a lot in Europe. If teh world doesn't collapse from the amount of nukes going off that is...

most likely your aid isn't there yet in any case...its a long way from the UK to China, and it would have to go by ship, so figure at least a month

In defense of my nuclear attack, I knew that as soon as foreign forces started pushing into Turkey then they'd launch the nukes. I was simply launching a pre-emptive strike to try and eliminate Turkish authority so they couldn't blast back. I used a minimum of nukes (I think only four) since a large scale exchange would be just as bad as if we would have exchange fire anyway. The only big question is whether the SU will shoot nukes now (thus starting a nuclear exchange between our countries).

Are you crazy? No one would've dared to use nuclear weapons after what happened in Asia, that's why the whole incident started, or so I thought...

In defense of my nuclear attack, I knew that as soon as foreign forces started pushing into Turkey then they'd launch the nukes. I was simply launching a pre-emptive strike to try and eliminate Turkish authority so they couldn't blast back. I used a minimum of nukes (I think only four) since a large scale exchange would be just as bad as if we would have exchange fire anyway. The only big question is whether the SU will shoot nukes now (thus starting a nuclear exchange between our countries).


No offense, but that was a pretty dumb statement.

First of all, there were no foriegn forces EXCEPT Egyptian forces in position to make an advance into Turkish territory. The ONLY Greek forces that have not been destroyed or under siege are 2 militia in Athens and 1 light infantry that is fleeing into W Thrace and has suffered heavy casualties. French forces were still making there way in Yugoslavia and in any event would have had to fight all the way across Trhace and then make an amphib landing before they could even touch Turkish soil.

Even So I would NOT have launched nukes. Abbassia was right, this war happened on the assumption the world wasn't ready to launch nukes again so soon.

Secondly....you tried to end a war before it went nuclear by nuking one of the members? I don't even know what to say to that, other than thats one of the more hypocritical things I've ever heard.

And lastly, I already told you I what I would do to you if you tried this with Turkey days ago, the notion that you would get away with nuking a nation WITHOUT provocation of ANY kind is crazy. Hell, Even America had a little bit of provocation from China, you had NOTHING, there wasn't even a single soldier ont he Syrian border, and you knew that fromt he deployments I posted days ago.

I told you before what would happen if you nuked, and I will make good on that promise, you will not have a nation.

Unfortunately I am going to try to stop you from retaliating, who knows what more damage could further nuclear blasts do to the earth?

Your naval forces are south of Crete correct? That or by Yugo?

I am not sure, last orders were to move to engage the enemy fleet, so they could be anywhere depending on Mod ruling since I don't really know where exactly is your fleet (dumb I know but I figured to take my chances at my first naval battle).

Now silly old Egypt ruined my first chance at naval battle...

They were in the Aegean so you were probaly headed that way.

For the love of God...

A second nuclear war a few weeks after the US attacked China with nukes?

Whats next? Nuke War Three, Nuke War Four? Lets go all the way and nuke every nation in E20! :rolleyes:

Did you seriously think there wouldn't be a nuclear war in the Middle East by the end of E20? Silly Sharina. :D

Did you seriously think there wouldn't be a nuclear war in the Middle East by the end of E20? Silly Sharina. :D
MY Goodness....one step closer to Planet of the Apes...

you people are ridiculous, I leave for a week and manage to get a computer for 15 minutes and suddenly the world is glowing. WHY?!

For the love of God...

A second nuclear war a few weeks after the US attacked China with nukes?

Whats next? Nuke War Three, Nuke War Four? Lets go all the way and nuke every nation in E20! :rolleyes:


My argument exactly...

Hey, GB did most of it. I only did 3 nukes.

you people are ridiculous, I leave for a week and manage to get a computer for 15 minutes and suddenly the world is glowing. WHY?!

::waves through the atomic fog::

They havent got me yet! (Simply because they are too busy right now I'm sure...)

::waves through the atomic fog::

They havent got me yet! (Simply because they are too busy right now I'm sure...)

ever read the book "On the Beach"?

(evil laughter)

I'm stil alive and now the dominant power in East Asia (and arguably asia) if China was hit badly in the city

So did GB do this because he was leaving or something, and wil we start again? If we restart, I call Japan, and I'll start when I get back

you people are ridiculous, I leave for a week and manage to get a computer for 15 minutes and suddenly the world is glowing. WHY?!

Welcome back.

you people are ridiculous, I leave for a week and manage to get a computer for 15 minutes and suddenly the world is glowing. WHY?!

look at the bright side.. Japan was originally on the US target list because it was deploying missiles too. But was taken off at the last minute

So did GB do this because he was leaving or something, and wil we start again? If we restart, I call Japan, and I'll start when I get back

no evil ooc intentions, just game play

Welcome back.


Actualy I'm technically still gone for 3 more weeks but I managed to get limited (extremlely limited) computer access, and It's not looking to good after that because of some bad final grades

ever read the book "On the Beach"?

(evil laughter)

:-P

you read too much. I havent read it yet, but I may have to. It sounds way too appropriate.

oh, ppl, by the way. Chatzy party going on right now!

look at the bright side.. Japan was originally on the US target list because it was deploying missiles too. But was taken off at the last minute

*Cough*Your welcome Haneastic*Cough*

look at the bright side.. Japan was originally on the US target list because it was deploying missiles too. But was taken off at the last minute


was it because of my TG? Oh and Safehaven2, thanks very much for that warning. When this all clears maybe I can get something going again

I'm stil alive and now the dominant power in East Asia (and arguably asia) if China was hit badly in the city



I'm still up and running; so technically we are both the only functioning powers in East Asia. However, Korea and Japan are getting bombarded with fallout.

I'm still up and running. However, Korea and Japan are getting bombarded with fallout.


yes...Japan can never escape it

Hey, GB did most of it. I only did 3 nukes.

OOC: Uh Oh, when we start talking about nukes like that, It's got to be a sign:"Repent Ye Sinners! The End of the World is Neigh!".

By the way how are Religous groups coping with this?

look at the bright side.. Japan was originally on the US target list because it was deploying missiles too. But was taken off at the last minute

Eh how does that work? The USEA was on the target list but hadn't deployed missiles (Had no plans to either).
Or did I just piss you off too much to be left alone? :p

OOC: Uh Oh, when we start talking about nukes like that, It's got to be a sign:"Repent Ye Sinners! The End of the World is Neigh!".

By the way how are Religous groups coping with this?

OOC: Mine are organizing prayer meets. The Moonies probably have a reason to live now, though.

And I can see Korean kids beginning their own angry, punklike subculture....

Egypt is setting a very dangerous precedent. By using nukes aganist Turkey, it opens up a whole new set of cans of worms.

Essentially, its like "Its all right to use nukes. If Egypt can do it, then I (nation X) can do it as well!" then leads to a chain reaction of nuclear bomb usage.

Haven't ANYONE learned from the mess of China and USEA?

OOC: Uh Oh, when we start talking about nukes like that, It's got to be a sign:"Repent Ye Sinners! The End of the World is Neigh!".

By the way how are Religous groups coping with this?

the short answer would be not very well

Hello all.

I'm wondering if I could join up as rumania. All this intrigue is drawing me back in ;)

King Simeone I of Bulgaria has abdicated from the Royal Throne and is being replaced with Crown Princess Elisabeth I of Bulgaria. The Bulgarian military is at high alert all over the country and air raid sirens are being heard loud and clear due to the threat of Greece and Turkey's War.

Just continuing OOC discusion here:

OOC: Do you seriously think Turkey wouldn't have used nukes as Arab forces rolled into the country? Even tactical nuclear weapons? Turkey had no hope against Greece and Egypt, as well as potential British/French intervention. Plus, it's one of those situations like the invasion of Japan at the end of WW2. Egyptian casulty count is at 0 right now and the only country Egypt is officially at war with right now is decapitated and potentially out of the war for good.

As a matter of fact it was inconceivable to anyone that some nut would use nuclear weapons after what happened to the Economy worldwide, everybody is sending aid to the Asians while sympethising deeply with them and much of Europe has pulled out of the Oceanic Alliance. I'd imagine that sums up popular response not to mention the nono-prolifiration treaty in the UN and calls for disarmament.

In addition you are forgetting what may happen if the SU retaliates, sure I might try to stop them but what gurantee is that there will be no retaliation? I don't think your forign affairs status has improved because of this incident either...

by the way, there is a lot of hatred of the Turks in RL in this RP, although not enough to by itself justify the strikes. It does however remove Turkey as an actor in the region pretty soon though. The Egyptians figured they were safe behind the British nuclear umbrella and that the Scandics have bigger things to worry about from Germany and Russia.

My point exactly; why would the Egyptian High Command alienate itself from every nation in the world just to deliver a meaningless hit? Nothing is gained and a lot is lost

bottom line answer is this for ooc purposes. If a player wants to do something, as long as its reasonably plausable, I am inclined to let them.

Things like unifying South America, the great Union between Germany and Russia, the SCT, LTA, massive aid to Africa by US and Spain tearing itself apart not twice but three times.

Its really not any less plausable then something of the other things that have happened in the RP.

I do understand your concerns though, but a major fear in RL history has been some nut getting hold of nukes and using them regardless of the consequences.

So those reasons, along with the others I have mentioned are why in the end I let Nasser nuke Turkey.

Just aheads up guys, I am going on holiday on Saturday to Southern Portugal and Spain and will not be back until the following Saturday. After that I will be here for 2 days and then i'm off for 10 days camping in France. My intentions are to let GB, Abbassia or some of the Commonwealth nations look after the UK (not to hard to handle in the post-war world) until I get back from either of these. Not too much should happen and the UK reaction is generally pretty predictable anyway, so i'm not expectin any major problems.

Cheers guys.

---------------

All my orders are now in to GB, I am just hoping nothing goes too badly wrong in Europe, what with the depression and everything.

Hello all.

I'm wondering if I could join up as rumania. All this intrigue is drawing me back in ;)
Just thought this might have been missed.

Will Artista/FNS please check this thread:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=429731

Rodenka has already been approved more or less, considering he did participate in E20 a few RL months ago.

Ah ok cool. Whatever happened about that guy who wanted to take Burgundy, and the other who wanted to take Brazil/Senegal?

Anyway, I'm awaiting reponses in the USA, FNS, OA, and NPC threads.

bottom line answer is this for ooc purposes. If a player wants to do something, as long as its reasonably plausable, I am inclined to let them.

Things like unifying South America, the great Union between Germany and Russia, the SCT, LTA, massive aid to Africa by US and Spain tearing itself apart not twice but three times.

Its really not any less plausable then something of the other things that have happened in the RP.

I do understand your concerns though, but a major fear in RL history has been some nut getting hold of nukes and using them regardless of the consequences.

So those reasons, along with the others I have mentioned are why in the end I let Nasser nuke Turkey.

sigh... Ok I give up, even though I really don't think Nassar was that big of a nutcase, then again we had Hitler go Archetict so I guess yeah its plausable and considering the limeted damage I can't say that I am too upset on what has happened, but I would be inclined to think that the Egyptian people won't be too happy by their president's action of striking Turkey then running away and leaving them to their fate, in post-strike terms of course but that would be outside my jurisdiction and up to the Mods.

Better get to the UN and start condemnations...

Well, the fact remains that essentially the entire civilization of Egypt will be eliminated by a mega flood after the Aswan Dam is busted, and radioactive water at that. The entire Nile Valley will be wiped out, meaning practically the entire Egyptian economy, industry, populace, and cultural stuff (Pyramids, Sphinx, ancient Egyptian temples, Valley of Kings, etc.) all gone.

I don't even think Hitler would be *THAT* crazy to self-suicide his own nation (I mean the 2 front war in Germany still leaves most of Germany's people alive, whereas this E20 Nasser's decision means like 99% of all Egypt is killed / flooded / wiped out).

OOC: Donno where to put this

IC: A message of great congratulations is sent to Saddam on his redeeming of the Arab people. A reaffirming of German support for him, and an asking for a reaffirming of an alliance is also requested.

More quietly it is stated that if Saddam does something on the order of Nassar, Germany will feel no remorse for what happens to him, whether it come from outside or within.

IC2: Several ships in the area begin searching for the ship that carries Nassar and the Egyptian Government. Orders are sent to not engage, but rather to apprehend.

OOC2: Kordo, you should make a thread with the name of your new govt.

Well, the fact remains that essentially the entire civilization of Egypt will be eliminated by a mega flood after the Aswan Dam is busted, and radioactive water at that. The entire Nile Valley will be wiped out, meaning practically the entire Egyptian economy, industry, populace, and cultural stuff (Pyramids, Sphinx, ancient Egyptian temples, Valley of Kings, etc.) all gone.

I don't even think Hitler would be *THAT* crazy to self-suicide his own nation (I mean the 2 front war in Germany still leaves most of Germany's people alive, whereas this E20 Nasser's decision means like 99% of all Egypt is killed / flooded / wiped out).

Maybe they were counting on me to prevent retaliation? if so it would be a most risky move...

Added links to the Aegan and Twilight War threads.

Maybe they were counting on me to prevent retaliation? if so it would be a most risky move...

I didn't even know you were protecting Egypt. Actually I was wondering whether the SU would be willing to lose it's major cities to avenge the destruction of two Turkish cities. I'm guessing he will, but I'll wait until his missiles/bombers are in the air to launch my nukes. You know Safehaven, we could still be friends. :D

Maybe they were counting on me to prevent retaliation? if so it would be a most risky move...

I thought France didn'thave nuke weapons? I thought the WW-3 treaty banned that?

EDIT:

Egypt, you only managed to destroy Ankara, the other two missiles went off course and nuked the wrong places.

Oh I meant stop their bombers from reaching them, I have a carrier and a good deal of fighters. Of course if they try the missile route...

nuked the wrong places.

Uh, where did they hit?

Uh, where did they hit?

One hit the Mediterrean sea and the other hit somewhere 15 miles away from its targeted city.

Oh

posted a timeline of events that I am aware of up to February 20, 1964 in Twilight War Thread

France, will you try to shoot down Turkish bombers en route to Egypt?

Yes of course

I thought Turkey had ICBM's?

I thought Turkey had ICBM's?

nope

nuclear strike in progress in Turkey, need Safehaven to TG me

Howdy dont mind me. Im interested in joining your earth but dont know what channels to go through. Im currently reading up on Earth 20s history.

Im relatively new at role playing but i know the basic rule of god mod and youl get a fist full of IGNORE CANNON.

what do you dudes reckon?

Umm...choose a country first of all, then wait for Sharina/Galveston Bay to confirm you.

Ah yes pretty good pre requisite. :p ok then may i claim (If accepted) The Central Asian Republic?

GB, question:

The Population of the FNS in 2006 is 193,915,065. In this game, at 1965, what would the population be, at your best guess. (This population is including that of Jewish Settlers since there is no Israel, but rather settlements in Argentina)

Howdy dont mind me. Im interested in joining your earth but dont know what channels to go through. Im currently reading up on Earth 20s history.

Im relatively new at role playing but i know the basic rule of god mod and youl get a fist full of IGNORE CANNON.

what do you dudes reckon?

as you have all of 4 posts, what experience and as what country do you have other then the one you have posted under in this thread. Puppets are ok, but the rules for this RP require reasonable experience.

GB, question:

The Population of the FNS in 2006 is 193,915,065. In this game, at 1965, what would the population be, at your best guess. (This population is including that of Jewish Settlers since there is no Israel, but rather settlements in Argentina)

considerably lower, probably about 45% of that figure, as Latin America saw runaway population growth 1970 -2006.

I will do some research and get back to you later this week

as you have all of 4 posts, what experience and as what country do you have other then the one you have posted under in this thread. Puppets are ok, but the rules for this RP require reasonable experience.


Why don't we have him play a small country and get him oriented to the game, so have someone do his builds and such?

sounds good to me. perhaps Cuba?

( Ive had several nations here at some time or another. my largest was Zeeeland which i used for r.p.ing on an earth thread similiar to this. it may of even been the same one. Anyway i r.ped portugal on an alternative earth sadly for a brief time untill my nation got taken over and subsequently deleted.) so after a 4 month hiatus im starting anew..:)

sounds good to me. perhaps Cuba?

( Ive had several nations here at some time or another. my largest was Zeeeland which i used for r.p.ing on an earth thread similiar to this. it may of even been the same one. Anyway i r.ped portugal on an alternative earth sadly for a brief time untill my nation got taken over and subsequently deleted.) so after a 4 month hiatus im starting anew..:)

post a link for Zeeeland please

a small country is doable, although I would suggest a European country like the Netherlands, which has some economic power and diplomatic clout

Want to read some posts first though

post a link for Zeeeland please

a small country is doable, although I would suggest a European country like the Netherlands, which has some economic power and diplomatic clout

Want to read some posts first though

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9417567#post9417567

Zeeeland was a member of E20 back in 2005 and he played Brazil before Gintopar (sp?). I think Zeeeland was probably the one who was playing with the Brazil rebellion thing (which the US funded) I believe.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9417567#post9417567

Zeeeland was a member of E20 back in 2005 and he played Brazil before Gintopar (sp?). I think Zeeeland was probably the one who was playing with the Brazil rebellion thing (which the US funded) I believe.

he is ok with me then.. I recommend though he take Belgium, the Netherlands, Burgundy, Czechslovakia, or Belgian Congo (about to be Zaire), or Brazil (which needs a player again it seems),

not a minor tourist based economy like Cuba or one of the other Caribbean or Central American nations.

GB, so when will we know the aftermath of all these nuclear attacks in Europe and Egypt....like more changes in weather and etc.

Yes that was me. I could start a write something for the Netherlands soon if you like. is their a NPC link added for the Netherlands?

Yes that was me. I could start a write something for the Netherlands soon if you like. is their a NPC link added for the Netherlands?

You gotta post which nation you want then come up with a "news" thread for your nation of choice- if you need examples, you can look at all the PC nation thread links listed on the first post of this thread.

Does someone have the Chatzy link handy?

In the Mideast, a massive man-hunt for Nassar and his cronies begins.

Many believe he is hiding in the desert of Egypt, awaiting return. Some believe he escaped to sea or is hiding in another country. Some believe that he is being harbored by other Mideast states, Jordan being the main target. However, many just believe he died in the massive genocide that took place.

Either way, the German and Egyptian soldiers in the area begin sweeps of the surrounding areas, and the fleets in the region begin searching the seas. Permission is asked to inspect other countries as the largest manhunt in history begins.

GB, so when will we know the aftermath of all these nuclear attacks in Europe and Egypt....like more changes in weather and etc.

amazingly enough, we might not be done yet

Yes that was me. I could start a write something for the Netherlands soon if you like. is their a NPC link added for the Netherlands?

Alto Sara has been handling Dutch builds by the way

Alto Sara has been handling Dutch builds by the way

It's Ato-Sara, and yes I've got dutch builds that are up to date.

Permission is asked to inspect other countries as the largest manhunt in history begins.

Britain will allow no searches of its merchant navy unless by correct customs and immigration authorities, no foreign serviceman will be allowed to search a vessel under the British ensign.

OOC: Not harbouring Nasser but just a pride thing really.

French states that the hunt for Nasser should be a secondary objective and handled by the International Police.

OOC: Not to complain, but how did the CSPS countries get militaries as massive as they now are? Russia has maxed out on active duty units, with a population of 100 million or so. The CSPS militaries simply appear too large for active duty limits, which leads me to this question. Does anyone else follow the active duty limits, and if not, shouldn't they be damaged even worse with the Crisis, if so many people are enlisted instead of fighting?

OOC: You can have 2 reserve units for every active duty, so there not as big as they look as much isn't active duty(Especially the airforces which are heavily reservist, and they were all available to fight because we called up our reserves like a month ago). But, in the case of the SU, Poland and the Ukraine we are a bit over the limit, and that affects growth in a negative way, but that isn't a factor as our economies are maxed out so whether growth is 4% or 3% doesn't matter to our economies.

But, we aren't the only ones over, a lot of people are.

OOC: Not to complain, but how did the CSPS countries get militaries as massive as they now are? Russia has maxed out on active duty units, with a population of 100 million or so. The CSPS militaries simply appear too large for active duty limits, which leads me to this question. Does anyone else follow the active duty limits, and if not, shouldn't they be damaged even worse with the Crisis, if so many people are enlisted instead of fighting?


I think a lot of them are reservists

It takes 6 months or so to call up reservists, mine aren't ready yet, and were called up at the same time (within a few days at least). The 1st, 2nd and 3rd Ukrainian armies, which attacked me, would require at least 50 million people to support (half my population). This number does not include navy or airforce units, or units in other parts of Ukraine. In 2006 RL, Ukraine only has 46,000,000 people, to put things in perspective.

I'll admit I'm a bit over, but I justify that because it's a requirement to serve three years in the in order to vote.

OOC: Not to complain, but how did the CSPS countries get militaries as massive as they now are? Russia has maxed out on active duty units, with a population of 100 million or so. The CSPS militaries simply appear too large for active duty limits, which leads me to this question. Does anyone else follow the active duty limits, and if not, shouldn't they be damaged even worse with the Crisis, if so many people are enlisted instead of fighting?

ooc
he spent a lot of money on his military, and it was a big reason why the US has a lot of nukes. In addition, reserve units are called up in essentially zero time for game purposes (a few days). Penalty is that they can't be trained as well as regular units, and even with the same money on training, they are slightly less effective.

Another side effect is that if the war becomes unpopular, having a lot of reservists in uniform will make it even more so at home, which will have political consequences

Real Life US involvement in Vietnam and the current situation are excellent examples, but not unique to the US

Just checked Britain's strength and found I was slightly over, so I shifted the B57s and 2 tankers with pilots to reserve to make up for it. Should have no real in game effect as reeserves were called up a while back, I just thought i'd better let you guys know.

This is getting way out of control.

First it was Asia that got nuked. Then it was Turkey (Ankara). Then Egypt got wiped out by nukes, but not before it nuked Turkey again and the SU. Now GB is implying that there might be a full scale nuclear exchange between the SU and the UK (His "shit, I missed an order by someone that is going to be really, really important." and "just remember, no matter what happens tomorrow.. I am following player orders." posts in Chatzy) plus the intel reports that the UK was considering a pre-emptive nuke strike on the SU.

If this continues, there won't be ANY Europe left to RP in (and Asia, but to a lesser degree). This leaves only FNS, Australia, Nigeria, and South Africa as the only unscathed and "full" player-controlled nations not destroyed or seriously damaged / affected by the nuclear wars going on.

This continued nuclear wars will kill E20 gameplay, when practically 1/2 to 2/3 of the player base in E20 have very weak or no nations (like Egypt and possibly SU and UK) to play with.

The only two solutions should this n00k crap continue to escalate is... A huge time warp of 20 - 30 years (advance the year to 1990 or something) so that players can play their nations again in Asia and Europe, but without waiting 20 - 30 RL weeks to do so (especially Egypt, Turkey, SU and UK assuming they n00k each other out, etc.)... OR a rewind to the beginning of 1964 before all this nuclear crap happened.

I'm only proposing these two solutions for the sake of playability and continued player participation in E20. Who wants to RP a land full of radiation, or having nothing left (Egypt and Turkey)... if they're forced to wait many RL weeks before they are effectively rebuilt? I doubt people want to wait 10+ RL weeks going by the 1 RL week = 1 E20 year timescale during (and after) this nuclear apocalypse until they're back to their pre-apocalypse levels of development and strength.

Some of you guys may remember me complaining about n00k-fests way back when E20 was still in the 1930's... I kept saying "n00ks will be the end of E20" and its looking like that is gonna happen after all.


IMPORTANT NOTE:

I truly hope it doesn't come to this, and that these solutions won't be necessary. But if this nuclear stuff continues to escalate, then its either use the solutions or E20 dies from loss of enthuaism and playability (again, who wants to spend 10+ RL weeks RP'ing a nation wasted or badly damaged by nuclear stuff?)

ooc
today and tomorrow I will be updating everyones armed forces so that this weekend I can game the war up to hopefully at least June and preferably July

So that eventually, 1964 will end

Apparently no more nuclear attacks are imminent, at least for the moment

As I update, I will post the new information, so people can give me specific plans for the Spring and Summer campaigns.

At this point, no one can loan the Russians points, because until at least March and probably not until April they havent got a port.. Russian Pacific ports don't become ice free until then (at least enough for navigation).

Loaning Central Asia points is also difficult until either the CSPS links up with the Central Asians OR Pakistan is willing to let points go through it. However, the CSPS cannot loan points through Pakistan because its shipping doesn't have access to the Atlantic and without that, can't get to Pakistan or anywhere else in Asia either. Since after all, the Suez Canal is a pair of glowing craters with a ditch between them and the British and French own the Mediterranean at the moment anyway.

Although the Scandics and Poles are contesting the North Sea, unless they smash the British and French Navies, they aren't going anywhere beyond that.

The Oman / Arab Federation situation is heating up, but no fighting has started. If it does, it will be incorporated as part of the Twilight War as yet another front

Incidently, air transport units can carry economic points (see previous post on how aid works for China) but at 50% of that level because the special conditions for aid work don't apply in this case. Naturally, air transport units can be intercepted if enemy fighters can reach them

This is getting way out of control.


[ )

see post above, and we should really play it through to see what happens.. things arent as dire as you might think .. at least not yet

Yeah personally for a country like me my choices are get nuked or twiddle my thumbs.

see post above, and we should really play it through to see what happens.. things arent as dire as you might think .. at least not yet

I realize that- I'm not saying we stop this right now. Just that if the SU and Uk are wiped off the map like Egypt was, then all that radiation and toxins floats all over Europe, killing crops and pretty much wrecks Germany, France, Italy, etc. ... then really there's nothing left besides FNS, Australia, Nigeria, and South Africa. (The US is a NPC at this point, and Pakistan is pretty much wrecked economically, and will take like 20+ years before it can really become a "power")

I'm only saying this for the sake of playability, not because I got nuked. I don't want E20 to end with a whimper when players don't want to RP radioactive wastelands for 10+ RL weeks.

Just aheads up guys, I am going on holiday on Saturday to Southern Portugal and Spain and will not be back until the following Saturday. After that I will be here for 2 days and then i'm off for 10 days camping in France. My intentions are to let GB, Abbassia or some of the Commonwealth nations look after the UK (not to hard to handle in the post-war world) until I get back from either of these. Not too much should happen and the UK reaction is generally pretty predictable anyway, so i'm not expecting any major problems.

Cheers guys.

Just thought i'd bring this back up to the front in case anyone missed it. The conditions have changed since I last posted it but GB will probably be the best to handle Britain whilst i'm gone, he understands most about what i'm doing militarily and whatever. The war against CSPS will take time so I should be able to do my builds in the 2 day gap between my holidays. Otherwise I completely trust GB to fight the war for me with Britain as an NPC until I get back. Sorry to leave you at this point but i'll be back fully within 2 game years (due to time stretching) and i'll have the 2 day gap to catch up with anything really important.

Uhh ok. Have fun.

Just thought i'd bring this back up to the front in case anyone missed it. The conditions have changed since I last posted it but GB will probably be the best to handle Britain whilst i'm gone, he understands most about what i'm doing militarily and whatever. The war against CSPS will take time so I should be able to do my builds in the 2 day gap between my holidays. Otherwise I completely trust GB to fight the war for me with Britain as an NPC until I get back. Sorry to leave you at this point but i'll be back fully within 2 game years (due to time stretching) and i'll have the 2 day gap to catch up with anything really important.


On that note, I'm leaving Sat for Canada, won't be back till the following sat.

On that note, I'm leaving Sat for Canada, won't be back till the following sat.

Where in Canada are you going?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Where in Canada are you going?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I don't know if I can talk to you anymore, you broke my heart by selling supplies to the enemy.:(




No, but seriously, I'm going to Montreal.

Montreal? That so lame. If you are 19, come to Toronto we have good time, jah.

Wow lots of people taking a break. I just took one, so I suppose I can't complain.

Well, it seems that the world has finally gone to shit. As I've been away for two and a half weeks, and will be gone for another three at least, I cannot continue to call myself either the Economic Moderator or the Republic of South Africa. I'm not so arrogant as to say that South Africa is crucial to the future of E20, but it is after all a major regional power, and a nuclear- and chemically-armed one at that. Because it is in the interest of E20 that South Africa have a player behind it during this Twilight War, I am resigning from E20 until I am able to return full-time.

I plan to come back to NS and E20 after my job as a camp counselor is over, but it's not fair to assume that a couple of posts every two or three weeks is enough to justify my continued ownership of South Africa. If some else is playing as the RSA when I come back, I'll get a new country.

My last official act as the player behind South Africa is to reaffirm the orders I left two and a half weeks ago, though naturally they stand only while South Africa is NPC: whatever happens, South Africa will support the Commonwealth, even if it means turning the SADF on the civilian population (something I had hoped to avoid in this timeline) in order to prevent an anti-Western coup d'etat.

I'm leaving again for another two week computer holiday. I might be able to get on next week, I just don't know. The week after, however, I will be able to get on a very little bit.

I'll do 1965's build, and unless Germany gets attacked or Oman attacks the AF, German troops probably won't be doing a lot.

BTW, are the economic problems the same for next year?

Well, it seems that the world has finally gone to shit. As I've been away for two and a half weeks, and will be gone for another three at least, I cannot continue to call myself either the Economic Moderator or the Republic of South Africa. I'm not so arrogant as to say that South Africa is crucial to the future of E20, but it is after all a major regional power, and a nuclear- and chemically-armed one at that. Because it is in the interest of E20 that South Africa have a player behind it during this Twilight War, I am resigning from E20 until I am able to return full-time.

I plan to come back to NS and E20 after my job as a camp counselor is over, but it's not fair to assume that a couple of posts every two or three weeks is enough to justify my continued ownership of South Africa. If some else is playing as the RSA when I come back, I'll get a new country.

My last official act as the player behind South Africa is to reaffirm the orders I left two and a half weeks ago, though naturally they stand only while South Africa is NPC: whatever happens, South Africa will support the Commonwealth, even if it means turning the SADF on the civilian population (something I had hoped to avoid in this timeline) in order to prevent an anti-Western coup d'etat.

OOC
damn, I will miss you .. come back when camp is over. I will handle it as an NPC based on the instructions above. Hopefully it will be available when you come back.

IC
South Africa joins Canada and the UK in declaring war on the CSPS and pledges to back Oman.

Parthini']I'm leaving again for another two week computer holiday. I might be able to get on next week, I just don't know. The week after, however, I will be able to get on a very little bit.

I'll do 1965's build, and unless Germany gets attacked or Oman attacks the AF, German troops probably won't be doing a lot.

BTW, are the economic problems the same for next year?

very likely but it depends on what happens while Europe tears at itself. You realize by the way if you back the Arab Federation you will be facing the British Commonwealth right?

So when do you believe 1965 will start?

I didn't say I was attacking Oman :p

I am assuming that the AF is going to sit and not do anything and wait for Oman to attack it, which, it seems it is about to do. If the AF attacks Oman, that's a whole different story.

Jesus, I really wish I didn't have to go away...

I'll send you some hypothetical situations via E-mail.

BTW, what's the situation in Palestine?

Parthini'] .

BTW, what's the situation in Palestine?

Everyone is hoping nobody nukes them, the fallout stays south or west of them, and basically shocked silence. Same for Syria, which orders its military into barracks and lets the Germans disarm the Egyptians, who surrender.

So when do you believe 1965 will start?

hopefully Monday the 17th at the latest... big wars are complicated and take a lot of time to deal with as you have probably observed.

It took a month to handle the Third Great War just as a background story, and nearly 8 weeks to handle the 2nd Great War (4 years) with player interaction. The First Great War took about a month too including player interaction.

Peaceful years generally pass quickly

Everyone is hoping nobody nukes them, the fallout stays south or west of them, and basically shocked silence. Same for Syria, which orders its military into barracks and lets the Germans disarm the Egyptians, who surrender.

Oh, I was kinda hoping to keep them armed and under German Command.. :p

Ok so about another week. Alright.

This is getting way out of control.

First it was Asia that got nuked. Then it was Turkey (Ankara). Then Egypt got wiped out by nukes, but not before it nuked Turkey again and the SU. Now GB is implying that there might be a full scale nuclear exchange between the SU and the UK (His "shit, I missed an order by someone that is going to be really, really important." and "just remember, no matter what happens tomorrow.. I am following player orders." posts in Chatzy) plus the intel reports that the UK was considering a pre-emptive nuke strike on the SU.

If this continues, there won't be ANY Europe left to RP in (and Asia, but to a lesser degree). This leaves only FNS, Australia, Nigeria, and South Africa as the only unscathed and "full" player-controlled nations not destroyed or seriously damaged / affected by the nuclear wars going on.

This continued nuclear wars will kill E20 gameplay, when practically 1/2 to 2/3 of the player base in E20 have very weak or no nations (like Egypt and possibly SU and UK) to play with.

The only two solutions should this n00k crap continue to escalate is... A huge time warp of 20 - 30 years (advance the year to 1990 or something) so that players can play their nations again in Asia and Europe, but without waiting 20 - 30 RL weeks to do so (especially Egypt, Turkey, SU and UK assuming they n00k each other out, etc.)... OR a rewind to the beginning of 1964 before all this nuclear crap happened.

I'm only proposing these two solutions for the sake of playability and continued player participation in E20. Who wants to RP a land full of radiation, or having nothing left (Egypt and Turkey)... if they're forced to wait many RL weeks before they are effectively rebuilt? I doubt people want to wait 10+ RL weeks going by the 1 RL week = 1 E20 year timescale during (and after) this nuclear apocalypse until they're back to their pre-apocalypse levels of development and strength.

Some of you guys may remember me complaining about n00k-fests way back when E20 was still in the 1930's... I kept saying "n00ks will be the end of E20" and its looking like that is gonna happen after all.


IMPORTANT NOTE:

I truly hope it doesn't come to this, and that these solutions won't be necessary. But if this nuclear stuff continues to escalate, then its either use the solutions or E20 dies from loss of enthuaism and playability (again, who wants to spend 10+ RL weeks RP'ing a nation wasted or badly damaged by nuclear stuff?)

I may have mentioned this only on chatzy, so I'll come out with it here. I am 100% against any sort of massive time warp because of this nuclear mess and 150% against back-tracking and erasure of events. These arent solutions, they would be the deathknell of what E20 stands for to me.

One of the amazing things about this game to me is the mixture of realism and tenacity that it shows. History, which I can only assume we are all interested enough in to put time in on this, is about dark times too. If a player's actions made them the target of a nuclear strike (even the attacks in Asia were rooted in the decision to make the SCT a military alliance) then that player certainly should be willing to clean up the mess. Massive props to Koryan for
I'm not going to abandon Egypt. I created the mess and I'll clean it up, even if it takes 30 years just to rebuild Cairo.

Adversity is one thing we havent had enough of in this game. Dealing with this sort of thing makes the entire E20 experience more complete.

Anyway. I'm off my soap box now. If anybody agrees with me I'd appreciate the support before I get it with both barrels from Sharina. ;) I just felt like venting, thats all...

I may have mentioned this only on chatzy, so I'll come out with it here. I am 100% against any sort of massive time warp because of this nuclear mess and 150% against back-tracking and erasure of events. These arent solutions, they would be the deathknell of what E20 stands for to me.

The reason why I proposed this is to skip the BORING years of rebuilding. Before when we discussed that on Chatzy, it was just China and USEA. Now it's Egypt, Turkey, and maybe even a few more nations like SU, UK, Russia, etc. (assuming more nukes are used).

Who wants to wait weeks and weeks in RL twiddling his / her thumbs until their nations finish rebuilding from the nuclear stuff? The boredom and the thumb-twiddling *WILL* be the thing that kills E20, not the time-warp.

A time-warp would basically allow everybody to get back to the fun RP'ing stuff, and cutting out the boring tedium. Almost nobody in RL wants tedious stuff except machoists or those illegal aliens who have to rub two pennies together (tedious menial work just to feed themselves).

In fact, I'm much more willing to do a time-warp if the nuclear stuff gets worse (i.e. more nations get n00ked into oblivion, like more "Egypt's" and "Turkeys") than a rewind.

One of the amazing things about this game to me is the mixture of realism and tenacity that it shows. History, which I can only assume we are all interested enough in to put time in on this, is about dark times too. If a player's actions made them the target of a nuclear strike (even the attacks in Asia were rooted in the decision to make the SCT a military alliance) then that player certainly should be willing to clean up the mess. Massive props to Koryan for

I'm not quitting playing as China either.

However, in extenuating circumstances, realism has to be sacrified for playability and survival. Allow me to put it this way to you...

Assume that the SU and UK does go all out nuclear (the UK had indicated that it was considering a pre-emptive n00k strike aganist the SU). The ensuing nuclear war will also affect Russia (SU might n00k Russia if the SU is attacked by nukes). Thats 3 nations wiped out by nukes. Then Europe will be a wasteland as there'll be much more radiation and toxins than there is right now, meaning even further economic and agricultural damage to Europe.

Then that means the 6 European players (SU, UK, Germany, France, Russia, and Italy) will have scraps as nations (or none like Egypt). Plus the several Asian players. That is a significant player-base left with scrap heaps of their nations. Thus, a time warp would help all these players not become bored with E20, and start their nations after rebuilding period (similiar to the time warps we have already did. One ran for 10+ years after WW-1, another was for 7 years after WW-2, and a third one was for 2 - 3 years after WW-3).

With Malkyer being out of comission temporarily, that only leaves three significant E20 players with "full" or "undamaged" nations- namely the FNS (Artista), Nigeria (Kilani), and Australia (Cylea). When we have 10+ players with serious, extreme, or catastrophic damage to their nations, the needs of the 10+ players outweigh the needs of 3 players wanting to have no time warp.

Thus, the time warp will allow these 10+ players to get back into the game instead of waiting many RL weeks. I'm sure the 3 "undamaged" players don't want to get bored waiting for these other 10+ players to rebuild in 10 RL weeks.

Adversity is one thing we havent had enough of in this game. Dealing with this sort of thing makes the entire E20 experience more complete.

Yes, but this is going a bit too far. What is there to play with in E20 if most significant nations are wiped out by nuclear weapons? Wait 10+ RL weeks doing nothing until these nations can be rebuilt?

Anyway. I'm off my soap box now. If anybody agrees with me I'd appreciate the support before I get it with both barrels from Sharina. ;) I just felt like venting, thats all...

I understand your point of view, but the nuclear situation with Egypt and Turkey and SU has complicated things. I won't push for a time warp right now as long as no more nuclear exchanges happen, or if no more player controlled nations are wiped out like what happened to Egypt or Turkey.

But if there is more nuke exchanges and more nation wipe-outs (SU and UK for example), then a time warp probably is the only way to save E20 from a agonizing death via boredom of 10+ RL week wait to rebuild everything. With the SU and UK gone, and Europe wrecked, it will make it far harder to rebuild Asia and Europe because the US is already in turmoil, and the FNS probably will be the only nation able to lend any significant amount of funds to rebuild the rest of the world (as most of Europe's factories will be either destroyed or damaged).

Right now, time warp = no.

Later, if UK and SU nukes each other, then time warp = probably yes.

Can I play as Ethiopia?its a relatively large country but can i make a post for it and let you guys make a decision from there?

The Empire of Ethipia interests me

Pakistan no want Time Warp!

Also, Sharina, wasn't it you who wanted to live in a post-apocalyptic world?

Can I play as Ethiopia?its a relatively large country but can i make a post for it and let you guys make a decision from there?

The Empire of Ethipia interests me

that might be doable

Pakistan no want Time Warp!

Also, Sharina, wasn't it you who wanted to live in a post-apocalyptic world?

Yeah, but if the entire world was Stone Age, not just half of it (as it'd be way too easy for the un-touched nations to invade and annex the rest of the world).

Yeah, but if the entire world was Stone Age, not just half of it (as it'd be way too easy for the un-touched nations to invade and annex the rest of the world).

But that's what makes it interesting. For instance; after the SU and Russia nuke each other to bits, as will probably happen, Poland and the Ukraine could go and annex huge swathes of Russia, or Greece could annex Turkey, or whatever! You'll never know whats going to happen in these turbulent times. I predict a bunch of tin-pot fascist dictatorships, but that's just me.

For what it's worth, I think E20 should avoid any kind of time-warp. I mean, how awesome would it be to rebuild the world into something new? And even if there are only three or four "unscathed" PC countries when everything is done, that just means a change-up in the status quo for a awhile. How awesome would it be from an alternative history standpoint to have South America and Africa running the show instead of America and China? Pretty damn awesome, I think.

Besides, we made the bed and we should lie in it. That's what my cynical side says, at least.

For what it's worth, I think E20 should avoid any kind of time-warp. I mean, how awesome would it be to rebuild the world into something new? And even if there are only three or four "unscathed" PC countries when everything is done, that just means a change-up in the status quo for a awhile. How awesome would it be from an alternative history standpoint to have South America and Africa running the show instead of America and China? Pretty damn awesome, I think.

Besides, we made the bed and we should lie in it. That's what my cynical side says, at least.

I'd like to see what happens. Besides, the new realities might be interesting.....with Korea as one of two dominant powers in East Asia, it kinda puts a lot on my shoulders, but also places me in a new level of power.

And we might be able to go to space. I want us to fight aliens eventually.

I get what you're saying, but the problem is still the US.

How fun will it be with the threat of the US hanging over our heads while we rebuild? Even though the US claims its isolationist, it still is covertly helping Russia, and threatening to invade Mexico. What's to stop more Strom Thurmonds from rising in power in the US then have the US invade and annex Europe or Asia or what have you?

If the US was thrown back into the Stone Age with the rest of the world, then I'd be much more willing to accept the "slow gameplay".

I get what you're saying, but the problem is still the US.

How fun will it be with the threat of the US hanging over our heads while we rebuild? Even though the US claims its isolationist, it still is covertly helping Russia, and threatening to invade Mexico. What's to stop more Strom Thurmonds from rising in power in the US then have the US invade and annex Europe or Asia or what have you?

If the US was thrown back into the Stone Age with the rest of the world, then I'd be much more willing to accept the "slow gameplay".

The US is going to sign the nuclear treaty too. Icidently, the US could have joined in more actively against the CSPS but the US actions indicated are as far as it goes. A later post by the way indicated that the US troops exercising on the Mexican border have since loaded aboard ships on the US West Coast and are headed toward China for previously mentioned relief work.

Europe nukes itself into the stone age and it deserves what it gets by the way.

due to 4 hours of oral surgery this morning and the fact I feel like death warmed over, nothing else out of me for a while today

By the way, have some rules in mind for Tech level 9 now and will introduce them when ready. If you have read the books by Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven based on the CoDominion universe, you will have a good idea of what I have in mind as far as technology goes, plus some elements from the Traveller Roleplaying game which we can easily access vehicles and spacecraft from. There are links and websides all over the net so its relatively easy to deal with, and a lot of the work has been done for those of us who aren't in to designing things, and rules available for those who are into to designing things.

With Malkyer being out of comission temporarily, that only leaves three significant E20 players with "full" or "undamaged" nations- namely the FNS (Artista), Nigeria (Kilani), and Australia (Cylea).


Yay! I is significant!


Right now, time warp = no.

Later, if UK and SU nukes each other, then time warp = probably yes.

Lets just agree on no time warp for now and hope it doesnt come to having to consider it. Should it though, it needs to be put to a vote, and it looks like a warp wouldnt necessarily win right now...

Yay! I is significant!



Lets just agree on no time warp for now and hope it doesnt come to having to consider it. Should it though, it needs to be put to a vote, and it looks like a warp wouldnt necessarily win right now...

Again, I'm not saying we do the time warp right now.

The only circumstance that I will support and push forward a time warp is if and when there's like 1/2 to 2/3 of E20 playerbase with nations completely wrecked (China, Egypt, and Turkey but instead of just these 3 nations, it's happening or has happened all over the world in E20) likely by any future nuclear exchanges. This is because by then, people will have to play the long waiting game to be able to RP exciting stuff again, and I have yet to meet someone in RL who loves the waiting game besides lawyers and doctors.

Thats all.

Again, I'm not saying we do the time warp right now.

The only circumstance that I will support and push forward a time warp is if and when there's like 1/2 to 2/3 of E20 playerbase with nations completely wrecked (China, Egypt, and Turkey but instead of just these 3 nations, it's happening or has happened all over the world in E20) likely by any future nuclear exchanges. This is because by then, people will have to play the long waiting game to be able to RP exciting stuff again, and I have yet to meet someone in RL who loves the waiting game besides lawyers and doctors.

Thats all.

Fair enough.

Time for me then to sit back and watch the fireworks some more!

I agree somewhat. After all I think that if more nukes get done, then it's going to be rather boring with everyone gone. And it's not like I am large enough yet to get anything done.