NationStates Jolt Archive

Do any of you have any idea what the person above me is doing?

the helinic prime minister has issued a bill for compulsary military service for citizens between the ages of 18 and 30

This isnt weird..............

This guy TG'ed me a few days ago and told me that he is Parthini and Champren's RL friend from school who is interested in E20.

I told him to check E20 and get a feel for what is expected in this RP.

So can I join this rp? If you let me I will join as the Central Asian Republic.

Added "Advancements to Tech Level 7.5" to the E20 main post.

I really do have an issue with the places of China, Korea and the USEA on that list.
We have been driving hard and have developed nukes, ICBMs (1953) and have a working space program that is going to start missions this year! All three of us also provide level 3 social services or higher.

Galveston Bay specifically said that nations with a space program should get 7.5 and 8 before everybody else. Yet the USEA is going to be behind nations like Brazil, Bulgaria, Poland, Spain, Portugal, Ukraine, South Africa, Italy and Australia none of whom have a space program, even when the launch facility is in the USEA!

You can assume that Colombian technology and inivation has been leaking into Brazil... especially since we have improved both our trade and infrastructure.

So can I join this rp? If you let me I will join as the Central Asian Republic.

If we are letting in people like "trees of fire" then Canadstein is rolling in experience by comparison. :/

I really do have an issue with the places of China, Korea and the USEA on that list.
We have been driving hard and have developed nukes, ICBMs (1953) and have a working space program that is going to start missions this year! All three of us also provide level 3 social services or higher.

Galveston Bay specifically said that nations with a space program should get 7.5 and 8 before everybody else. Yet the USEA is going to be behind nations like Brazil, Bulgaria, Poland, Spain, Portugal, Ukraine, South Africa, Italy and Australia none of whom have a space program, even when the launch facility is in the USEA!

I second this- we need GB, LR, and Malkyer to comment on this.

Personally I believe that all 3 major SCT nations (China, Korea, and USEA) should reach Tech level 7.5 in 1961 (only 1 year after USA and UK). Japan can catch up by 1962.

I second this- we need GB, LR, and Malkyer to comment on this.

Personally I believe that all 3 major SCT nations (China, Korea, and USEA) should reach Tech level 7.5 in 1961 (only 1 year after USA and UK). Japan can catch up by 1962.

pondering that... will comment monday or tuesday

So can i join?

I really do have an issue with the places of China, Korea and the USEA on that list.
We have been driving hard and have developed nukes, ICBMs (1953) and have a working space program that is going to start missions this year! All three of us also provide level 3 social services or higher.

Galveston Bay specifically said that nations with a space program should get 7.5 and 8 before everybody else. Yet the USEA is going to be behind nations like Brazil, Bulgaria, Poland, Spain, Portugal, Ukraine, South Africa, Italy and Australia none of whom have a space program, even when the launch facility is in the USEA!

You're right. Which is why I asked for input, because I figured I'd miss something important. The next time Sharina updates the main page, please revise the list as follows:

1960: US, UK, Germany, France*
1961: China, Korea, USEAS
1962: FNS, Italy, South Africa, Australia, Poland, Syria, Russia, Japan, Scandic Union
1963: Bulgaria, Spain, Portugal, Brazil, Ukraine, Egypt,

*If France is a member of the ESA; I'm not sure. If not, they will advance in 1961.

Don't forget about me.

1962: FNS, Italy, South Africa, Australia, Poland, Syria, Russia, Japan

WHAT?

WHAT?

Does the FNS have a space program? Those nations advance first.

my suggestions and reasons

Main thing to consider: Tech level 7.5 is the initial wave of the information age and the final surge of the industrial revolution. Both industry AND communications systems are important, as is consumer demand. Also, applied science is critical for this step, and the leading nations have been spending longer then the others. Just as importantly, tech level isn't just military, but also civilian economy, and sufficient incentives to advance AND a highly trained work force are key.


Simple solution for tech level advancement to tech level 7.5
1. Level 3+ social spending for at least 10 years
2. Has reached economic productivity maximum for at least 5 years
3. Has placed a man in orbit either by itself or in conjuction with 2 other nations.
4. Has the ability to build nuclear power plants.
5. Has an airline and tourist industry.

I second this- we need GB, LR, and Malkyer to comment on this.

Personally I believe that all 3 major SCT nations (China, Korea, and USEA) should reach Tech level 7.5 in 1961 (only 1 year after USA and UK). Japan can catch up by 1962.

Now, by major SCT members, you mean nations that contribute alot to the SCT, right? Because I make up about 40% of the SCT's population, and am the second most powerful military wise (probably up there economic wise, too). Of course, I really haven't donated alot of money towards the SCT...

Simple solution for tech level advancement to tech level 7.5
1. Level 3+ social spending for at least 10 years
2. Has reached economic productivity maximum for at least 5 years
3. Has placed a man in orbit either by itself or in conjuction with 2 other nations.
4. Has the ability to build nuclear power plants.
5. Has an airline and tourist industry.

Are you saying that advancement is dependent on all of these conditions, or just a couple?

How long till my inell services find out about Germany restarting its nuke program?

my suggestions and reasons

Main thing to consider: Tech level 7.5 is the initial wave of the information age and the final surge of the industrial revolution. Both industry AND communications systems are important, as is consumer demand. Also, applied science is critical for this step, and the leading nations have been spending longer then the others. Just as importantly, tech level isn't just military, but also civilian economy, and sufficient incentives to advance AND a highly trained work force are key.


Simple solution for tech level advancement to tech level 7.5
1. Level 3+ social spending for at least 10 years
2. Has reached economic productivity maximum for at least 5 years
3. Has placed a man in orbit either by itself or in conjuction with 2 other nations.
4. Has the ability to build nuclear power plants.
5. Has an airline and tourist industry.


by the way, under these rules, based on current spending, that would put the US at tech level 7.5 in 1960. And the other space faring nations right after.

And provides clear cut rules for people to aim for.

Safehaven2, are my rp skills good enough to join this thread?

Are you saying that advancement is dependent on all of these conditions, or just a couple?

all.... remember, you can work in partnership with other nations for space effort (a South African/Australian/US partnership would be acceptable for example)

all.... remember, you can work in partnership with other nations for space effort (a South African/Australian/US partnership would be acceptable for example)

Even though in RL South Africa is not far behind the US from a tech perspective (except for some advanced military stuff), even though it's never sent anyone into space, and sure as hell hasn't reached it's economic potential? And for the man in orbit thing, only the Americans, Russians, and Chinese have done that in RL, but a lot of nations have reached the information age anyway.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think those criteria are a little strict.

my suggestions and reasons

Main thing to consider: Tech level 7.5 is the initial wave of the information age and the final surge of the industrial revolution. Both industry AND communications systems are important, as is consumer demand. Also, applied science is critical for this step, and the leading nations have been spending longer then the others. Just as importantly, tech level isn't just military, but also civilian economy, and sufficient incentives to advance AND a highly trained work force are key.


Simple solution for tech level advancement to tech level 7.5
1. Level 3+ social spending for at least 10 years
2. Has reached economic productivity maximum for at least 5 years
3. Has placed a man in orbit either by itself or in conjuction with 2 other nations.
4. Has the ability to build nuclear power plants.
5. Has an airline and tourist industry.

Um....shit.

I'm not getting tech level 7.5 till 1980.

Even though in RL South Africa is not far behind the US from a tech perspective (except for some advanced military stuff), even though it's never sent anyone into space, and sure as hell hasn't reached it's economic potential? And for the man in orbit thing, only the Americans, Russians, and Chinese have done that in RL, but a lot of nations have reached the information age anyway.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think those criteria are a little strict.

true

how about 3 out of the 5 and then another special requirement? Open to suggestions on that.

Real life tech level 8 nations year 2000
USA, UK, Germany, Japan, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, France,
Real life tech level 7.5 nations year 2000
Australia, South Africa, Israel, Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Czechslovakia, Taiwan,
Norway,

Um....shit.

I'm not getting tech level 7.5 till 1980.

since in real life India just recently got there, and still hasn't reached tech level 8, thats pretty good wouldn't you say?

Um....shit.

I'm not getting tech level 7.5 till 1980.

Yeah. That was my initial reaction as well.

I think three out of five is better. As for a special requirement...I don't really know. Natural resources or something (like oil or minerals)?

Yeah. That was my initial reaction as well.

I think three out of five is better. As for a special requirement...I don't really know. Natural resources or something (like oil or minerals)?

let me think about it tonight and suggest something tomorrow

my suggestions and reasons

Main thing to consider: Tech level 7.5 is the initial wave of the information age and the final surge of the industrial revolution. Both industry AND communications systems are important, as is consumer demand. Also, applied science is critical for this step, and the leading nations have been spending longer then the others. Just as importantly, tech level isn't just military, but also civilian economy, and sufficient incentives to advance AND a highly trained work force are key.


Simple solution for tech level advancement to tech level 7.5
1. Level 3+ social spending for at least 10 years
2. Has reached economic productivity maximum for at least 5 years
3. Has placed a man in orbit either by itself or in conjuction with 2 other nations.
4. Has the ability to build nuclear power plants.
5. Has an airline and tourist industry.

3 out of 5 conditions should be fine, as some nations don't have the interest or the resources for a space exploration venture, while others may need 20 years or so for maximum economic productivity.

my suggestions and reasons

Main thing to consider: Tech level 7.5 is the initial wave of the information age and the final surge of the industrial revolution. Both industry AND communications systems are important, as is consumer demand. Also, applied science is critical for this step, and the leading nations have been spending longer then the others. Just as importantly, tech level isn't just military, but also civilian economy, and sufficient incentives to advance AND a highly trained work force are key.


Simple solution for tech level advancement to tech level 7.5
1. Level 3+ social spending for at least 10 years
2. Has reached economic productivity maximum for at least 5 years
3. Has placed a man in orbit either by itself or in conjuction with 2 other nations.
4. Has the ability to build nuclear power plants.
5. Has an airline and tourist industry.


ok, 3 out of 5 conditions plus spending 5 points a year for 5 years developing a home grown electronics industry gets you tech level 7.5.

For tech level 8, must have all 5 plus the electronics industry, then spend 5 years at 5 points a year developing a microcomputer industry.

How does that sound? That will bring about tech level 8 for the leading nations around the late 1960s or mid 1970s, about 5 - 6 years ahead of schedule (in some cases a lot sooner then in real life)

That sounds fine to me, Galveston. I can add the rules to the economic thread tomorrow after everyone has hopefully had a chance to see the proposition and comment on it.

As the Economic Mod, I'm going to ask everyone to include in their 1953 builds what conditions out the five they can currently fulfill.

Once again, we have the poor exception of Nigeria. Going by our previous decisions, Nigeria will reach tech level 7 in 1962. Once there, they can begin working on reaching level 7.5.

ok, 3 out of 5 conditions plus spending 5 points a year for 5 years developing a home grown electronics industry gets you tech level 7.5.

For tech level 8, must have all 5 plus the electronics industry, then spend 5 years at 5 points a year developing a microcomputer industry.

How does that sound? That will bring about tech level 8 for the leading nations around the late 1960s or mid 1970s, about 5 - 6 years ahead of schedule (in some cases a lot sooner then in real life)

I have a suggestion for condition #2.

Instead of maximum economy potential, what about 75% or 3/4 of maximum potential? After all, Tech Level 8 economies don't just explode after stangant growth. I mean, I can't see the USA or European economies staying stangant for 5 years at no growth (because of maximum limit) then the next year, BOOM! explode with growth.

I thinl 75% milestone should be much more reasonable as it allows for continued growth, instead of grow to max, then stangate with no growth for 5+ years then boom again. That'd be like a Great Depression or something with stangant economic growth.

Beijing Conference is up.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10677174#post10677174

I have a suggestion for condition #2.

Instead of maximum economy potential, what about 75% or 3/4 of maximum potential? After all, Tech Level 8 economies don't just explode after stangant growth. I mean, I can't see the USA or European economies staying stangant for 5 years at no growth (because of maximum limit) then the next year, BOOM! explode with growth.

I thinl 75% milestone should be much more reasonable as it allows for continued growth, instead of grow to max, then stangate with no growth for 5+ years then boom again. That'd be like a Great Depression or something with stangant economic growth.

I can live with that

k;
I have my maximum economic potential, Im spending at social service level 5, I have one nuclear power plant with a second on the way, I have almost matched the US in missile research, and I have just decided that I might need to have a space program. Oh I also have a tourist industry. Does this qualify me or not for tech 7.5

k;
I have my maximum economic potential, Im spending at social service level 5, I have one nuclear power plant with a second on the way, I have almost matched the US in missile research, and I have just decided that I might need to have a space program. Oh I also have a tourist industry. Does this qualify me or not for tech 7.5

economic maximum for 5 years (so not yet)
social level is ok (its been over 10 years for you)
tourist industry and airline ok
space not there yet
nuclear power ok

so add 5 years of spending on electronics industry and yes you will

since in real life India just recently got there, and still hasn't reached tech level 8, thats pretty good wouldn't you say?

In Real Life India just got there? Why do you say that? When I was in Pakistan, I had pretty much everything I have in the states technology wise; DVD players, Broadband internet, computers, etc.

Also, I'm confused. I didn't know that tech level 7 was going to tech half a century for most of the world. I thought it was going to take up far less time; like tech level 6 only took up 10-20 years, for example.

True, but I'm sure you could get internet access, DVD's and players, computers exc in a place like Uganda, but Uganda is definetely not tc level 7.5. How many of those computers and DVD players and all the other fancy electronics were actually designed by India? I'm willing to guess none. You can purchase electronics anywhere in the world, its so easy to ship things from A to B even if B is across the planet, but that does not mean B is on A level technologically speaking. Now granted many of these electronics are being produced in places like India, but again the technology to build them and to set up the factories isn't coming from places like India, is being supervised from places like America, France, Japan exc.

I'm half Dominican, my mom was born in Santo Domingo. When I go there I have access to most things I do in America. But I can definetely tell you that the Dominican Republic is not what we call tech lv 7.5, not many new technologies or electronics come out of the Dominican Republic, and even today there are a whole lot of people there that are extremely poor. India is ahead of were it was in rl, be happy with that, your going to reach lv 7.5 before the real India did, but you definetely not on the same level as Germany or Britian or some of the other higher tech nations. You've just gone through a bloody civil war, you still have massive amounts of people below the poverty line, and people just barely above it, especially in the poorer north regions of India.

True, but I'm sure you could get internet access, DVD's and players, computers exc in a place like Uganda, but Uganda is definetely not tc level 7.5. How many of those computers and DVD players and all the other fancy electronics were actually designed by India? I'm willing to guess none. You can purchase electronics anywhere in the world, its so easy to ship things from A to B even if B is across the planet, but that does not mean B is on A level technologically speaking. Now granted many of these electronics are being produced in places like India, but again the technology to build them and to set up the factories isn't coming from places like India, is being supervised from places like America, France, Japan exc.

I'm half Dominican, my mom was born in Santo Domingo. When I go there I have access to most things I do in America. But I can definetely tell you that the Dominican Republic is not what we call tech lv 7.5, not many new technologies or electronics come out of the Dominican Republic, and even today there are a whole lot of people there that are extremely poor. India is ahead of were it was in rl, be happy with that, your going to reach lv 7.5 before the real India did, but you definetely not on the same level as Germany or Britian or some of the other higher tech nations. You've just gone through a bloody civil war, you still have massive amounts of people below the poverty line, and people just barely above it, especially in the poorer north regions of India.

Actually, in this history, the South is alot poorer than the North :)

But I see your point, and I should be grateful I'm ahead of where India was in 1953. However, I have to disagree when you say that the Civil War I just went through was especially bloody; I'm guessing not much more than 200,000 people died. That's alot, yes, but that's quite insignificant compared to most other wars.

Also, I have to say, I'm only where I am now because India achieved independence 21 years before it did in RL. If India had become independent in 1947, then I would be where I was 25 years ago; with about 4 production centers.

How long till my inell services find out about Germany restarting its nuke program?

This got buried but I still need to know.

And TLS, I guess after what you went through in WW3 200,000 would be a drop in the bucket, but its still a big one. Anways, it was probaly a lot higher than 200,000, or at least it seemed so to me.

This got buried but I still need to know.

And TLS, I guess after what you went through in WW3 200,000 would be a drop in the bucket, but its still a big one. Anways, it was probaly a lot higher than 200,000, or at least it seemed so to me.

Why so?

There actually wasn't alot of fighting. The Southern and Eastern Theatres were basically highly-trained foreign troops wiping the floor with poorly-trained Naxalite militias. The Western theatre was alot bloodier, and that's where the majority of the casualties were, but it still wasn't extremely violent (mostly fighting over Bandar Abbas and Kabul). The Chemical Weapons attack didn't do alot, since Mustard Gas is not supposed to be fatal. Yes, with small children, the sick, and the elderly it can cause deaths, but it's more of a psychological thing.

My main problem with the requirement to have all 5 for Tech 8 is that as Belgium, I have neither the money or inclination to send someone to space.

My main problem with the requirement to have all 5 for Tech 8 is that as Belgium, I have neither the money or inclination to send someone to space.

It's 6 now O_o

Anyhoo, I agree. In RL, there are alot of tech level 8 nations that never, ever launched a single human being into space.

How long till my inell services find out about Germany restarting its nuke program?

Are you actively placing agents in Germany, if so you will find out pretty soon, as it requires some propagation reactors and whatnot. But the German intel service is pretty slick too and is going to be looking for anyone getting in from Scandivavia or Poland, Ukraine etc.

Are you actively placing agents in Germany, if so you will find out pretty soon, as it requires some propagation reactors and whatnot. But the German intel service is pretty slick too and is going to be looking for anyone getting in from Scandivavia or Poland, Ukraine etc.

Germany is my #1 focus.

Safehaven2 I need a answer to my question.

My main problem with the requirement to have all 5 for Tech 8 is that as Belgium, I have neither the money or inclination to send someone to space.

so kick in money to join in the ESA

So will I ever be allowed to be in this thread again? Just give me an answer and a real one.

so kick in money to join in the ESA

Belgium would be welcome to join, especially with the world's first manned orbital launches coming up next year. TG me to learn costs and future plans if interested.

Ok, so I have #1, Space, Nuclear Power and Tourism. All I'm missing is the economic max, which I'm getting there. So all I need to do is spend 5 points a year and I get tech 7.5?

Too easy...

Parthini']Ok, so I have #1, Space, Nuclear Power and Tourism. All I'm missing is the economic max, which I'm getting there. So all I need to do is spend 5 points a year and I get tech 7.5?

Too easy...

You'll have to have been at a minimum of three-quarters of your economic max. for at five years, and have spent the five points for five years.

So will I ever be allowed to be in this thread again? Just give me an answer and a real one.

You can try out a smaller nation for now, but you are still on thin ice.


LR, are you going to game out the Jan/Feb turn?

Might I suggest Saudi Arabia ;)

That'd be just asking for trouble.

Why what's wrong with that country? I was thinking about the Central Asian Republic.

If someone could give a summary of the 5 requirements for Tech 7.5 and 6 requirements for Tech 8, I'll be able to put it right up in the main post. Thanks in advance. :)

Added the Tech Requirements. I overlooked the list from the E20 economics thread.

LR, are you going to game out the Jan/Feb turn?

Damn, I totally forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me. I'll do it now and get the results up on the FAS thread. Thanks for your patience.

Well, after I have finally found the latest thread (my instincts told me to search Sharina's threads) I think I'll be joining in as Kurdistan. I hope this means I get to play a little revolter.

Would anyone be against me playing an ethnocractic theocracy who wants to seek revenge of those who seeked to oppress the Kurds (pretty much taking out good portions of Iraq and Turkey in insurgency)?

I'll be reading up on the economic thread to understand exactly how it works.

Well, after I have finally found the latest thread (my instincts told me to search Sharina's threads) I think I'll be joining in as Kurdistan. I hope this means I get to play a little revolter.

Would anyone be against me playing an ethnocractic theocracy who wants to seek revenge of those who seeked to oppress the Kurds (pretty much taking out good portions of Iraq and Turkey in insurgency)?

I'll be reading up on the economic thread to understand exactly how it works.

Theocracy would be a bit odd; since in Real life, the Kurds are extremely secular compared to everyone else in the region. Yes, they're muslims, but they don't shout "Jihad!" or "Allah-u-akbar!" everytime they try to rebel.

Also, Kurdistan is already a stable nation that makes up all of the Kurdish territories. I don't see why it should be all theocratic on us.

Theocracy would be a bit odd; since in Real life, the Kurds are extremely secular compared to everyone else in the region. Yes, they're muslims, but they don't shout "Jihad!" or "Allah-u-akbar!" everytime they try to rebel.

Also, Kurdistan is already a stable nation that makes up all of the Kurdish territories. I don't see why it should be all theocratic on us.

Or why we should have another Asian country...

There are still plenty of European Countries (Romania, Ukraine, Greece, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia) that have more prestige than crappy Middle Eastern Countries.

Ah well I was hoping to play a seperatist movement in multiple countries of the Middle East, sort of disrupt oil disripution and what not. How often would you think that in an uprising, expecially in a highly religious area, would not the leader claim him/herself as the ruler, and have no shape or form of democracy? The reason for theocracy was the fact of Sunni majority in the Kurds.

If no one would like an asian country, then maybe someone could suggest a European one? I really would like to stay out of Europe due to the fact that if you're there, you're a target, reguardless of strength.

Ah well I was hoping to play a seperatist movement in multiple countries of the Middle East, sort of disrupt oil disripution and what not. How often would you think that in an uprising, expecially in a highly religious area, would not the leader claim him/herself as the ruler, and have no shape or form of democracy? The reason for theocracy was the fact of Sunni majority in the Kurds.

If no one would like an asian country, then maybe someone could suggest a European one? I really would like to stay out of Europe due to the fact that if you're there, you're a target, reguardless of strength.

There's the numerous ones I named above and I think Italy is also open. They've had a much better run this time around...

Well if Italy is open, then I'll jump in on that. If not, I think Czechoslovakia will work.

Italy is indeed an NPC right now.

Added this useful link.

http://www.behindthename.com/random/

The Kurds are most likely the happiest group in the Middle East nowadays, strange as it sounds. They avoided bothe the FAS civil war and the war in Arabia. However, Italy would be a good choice, or, if nationalism is your thing, Greece. As I understand it, they want to recreate the Greece of Alexander the Great. For religious fanaticism, seeing some Christian fundamentalists would be interesting, perhaps in a poor Central American nation. Mexico's been thouroughly abused and might fit the role nicely.

The Kurds are most likely the happiest group in the Middle East nowadays, strange as it sounds. They avoided bothe the FAS civil war and the war in Arabia. However, Italy would be a good choice, or, if nationalism is your thing, Greece. As I understand it, they want to recreate the Greece of Alexander the Great. For religious fanaticism, seeing some Christian fundamentalists would be interesting, perhaps in a poor Central American nation. Mexico's been thouroughly abused and might fit the role nicely.

Seconded. Never thought about the Mexican part, but I can see a strong conservative, nationalist Catholic party competing against the PRI in this universe for control (if the PRI exists in E20, if not, the dominant party in power).

If you think about it, the Middle East and Central America some similarities, like the massive povery and foriegn intervention (more of a Cold War thing), a large devout population with few religious minorites. All it is, or was, as it would be more likely 20 years ago, is Israel to provide a mutual enemy, but perhaps the US or FNS would fill the role.

As I understand it, the "ability to build nuclear power plants" is the 24 points over 3 years needed to get the infrastructure for nuclear bombs?

The thread of the United Islamic Republic (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=475845)

If you think about it, the Middle East and Central America some similarities, like the massive povery and foriegn intervention (more of a Cold War thing), a large devout population with few religious minorites. All it is, or was, as it would be more likely 20 years ago, is Israel to provide a mutual enemy, but perhaps the US or FNS would fill the role.

except the US has not intervened in Central America or Mexico during this RP at any time, and has poured money, investment and resources into the Caribbean, Mexico and Central Mexico since the 1920s, and provided industrial centers for all of them, as well as protection without an American garrison. In addition, Colombia is an alternate migration endpoint, as the Colombians speak the same language and are also heavily industrialized.

In short, Central America and Mexico and the Caribbean are between two very large (one huge, one large) economies and would be reaping the benefits of that position and have for nearly 40 years.

No abused Central Americans or Caribbean nations in this timeline.

As I understand it, the "ability to build nuclear power plants" is the 24 points over 3 years needed to get the infrastructure for nuclear bombs?

24 points a year each year for 3 years.

As I understand it, the "ability to build nuclear power plants" is the 24 points over 3 years needed to get the infrastructure for nuclear bombs?

Aren't we allowed to joint research that type of stuff (like each side pays 12 a year)? If so, how about joint-research between Egypt and Syria?

Alrighty then. What is the ruling on my TL advancement? Should i hit 7.5 early and have a huge gap until 8 or should I not hit TL 7.5 until I have 4/5+ #6? By 1956 my economy would be at its TL 7 max in 2000 I believe. However, Syria, it can be argued, might take on a status in this timeline similar to either RL Japan at best, or perhaps be like the rich Gulf states (Kuwait, Bahrain, but ESPECIALLY the UAE, which redefines the term "insanely rich") instead of the poor, extremist, anrgy nation it is today.

Well, since I did want to try out a religious path (my reasons for Kurdistan) I think Italy would be a nice choise. Try to form a Roman Catholic Republic or what ever in my colonies.

I guess I'll go ahead and join as Italy if no one minds. I'll mostly be here as an economic and political RPer until something wierd happens (so no one thinks I'll go all commando and invade France or something).

The new Pakistan (the new name for India) news thread can be found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10686534#post10686534)

I have a question about the advancements to lvl. 8, and this has probably has already been asked. Does the ability to make nuclear power plants mean you can build them, or you have the technology to build them, because I know a lot of nations that might be unhapy if Japan built anything nuclear

24 points a year each year for 3 years.

Don't you need that nuclear bomb infrastructre and nuclear fueling infrastructure?

Wouldn't fueling suffice for plants?

Since I founded the Arab League thread, and various issues relating to it have come up lately, I'm going to make a thread for it, like the commonwealth and SCT threads.

Wouldn't fueling suffice for plants?

Thinking about it, yes and they both cost the same amount anyway.....

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=475909

Arab League discussion thread

Mostly for me, egypt, and Parth (for NPC reasons), although people doing builds for arab nations would do well to check in occasionally.

I guess I'll go ahead and join as Italy if no one minds. I'll mostly be here as an economic and political RPer until something wierd happens (so no one thinks I'll go all commando and invade France or something).

Sweet, less work for me! But really, welcome aboard.

Glad to be here. Now I have to figure out a way to find a quick and simple way to break down the economic point systems...again. Give me two or three days and I'll be RPing in no time.

Just a question, someone mind briefing me on the history of Italy up to this point, namely the government style, the ruling ideology, and so on. The factbook left behind is somewhat "duh" and not really showing much history.

Glad to be here. Now I have to figure out a way to find a quick and simple way to break down the economic point systems...again. Give me two or three days and I'll be RPing in no time.

Just a question, someone mind briefing me on the history of Italy up to this point, namely the government style, the ruling ideology, and so on. The factbook left behind is somewhat "duh" and not really showing much history.

The issue of course being that that player joined long after the game had started and didnt stay around for long enough to really learn the history that well.

Of course, since I joined after the 2nd world war, I'm not really one to talk. An original player would be much more qualified to answer the question. Welcome though.

From what I remember, Italy allied with Austria, France and Spain in World War I, but didn't lose anything.

After that, it became the last bastion of Capitalism on the European Continent. In WWII it got invaded over the Alps, and while holding off the hordes until the Americans got there, lost 20% of its male population.

World War III, Italy joined the war midway through and managed to snag Nice and Corsica from France. It also still has Lybia, Somalia and Djbouti which it got from the French.

Glad to be here. Now I have to figure out a way to find a quick and simple way to break down the economic point systems...again. Give me two or three days and I'll be RPing in no time.

Just a question, someone mind briefing me on the history of Italy up to this point, namely the government style, the ruling ideology, and so on. The factbook left behind is somewhat "duh" and not really showing much history.

Basically, Italy was pretty much as it was for the first few years, then it fights against Germany and Russia alongside France and the Austrians during the Great War, and Mussolini is killed while charging a Russian brigade or something.

Then the country kind of continues quietly until the Second Great War, when it joins the London Treaty Alliance and is subsequently invaded by the Russo-German Union. The Italians spend the war slugging it out in the Alps with German, French, Russian, and Yugoslav troops before an Anglo-American invasion of Spain and France ends the war. Italy loses upwards of a million dead, I think.

Italy doesn't have a player for most of the time after that, so nothing really notable happens. Just before the Third Great War/Eurasian War/War of Communist Aggression, Italy leaves the LTA; it rejoins shortly after LTA forces begin to roll back the communists. It ends as part of the victorious LTA, and has done little of note since.

Italy was a lot stronger militarily in this timeline, though how much of that was because of LTA sponsorship I don't know. The only things about Italian history that stick out in my mind are the wars; you can check the relevant threads for more details. There's probably something I'm forgetting, but oh well.

So I am assuming it is somewhat a capitalist right-winged theocracy? I am unsure of Italy's government before WW1, and I am assuming that is what it is at current, although that may change with me.

Its economy and military seems well-off as a First World Country, at least to my understanding of the economic point system and technology levels inplace.

I guess I'll just copy/paste the form the last guy had in a new thread and place the link in this very post. I'll edit in some stuff, of course, to compensate for lost time.

I don't know if I'd call Italy a theocracy. A right-wing democracy, sure, but I don't think the Church has that much influence in the government.

Well, I am unsure, but I am over 50% sure that Italy was not a democracy before WW1 (I will be using the same government's stance, except throw communism in as a rival). I will be making a somewhat democratic system since some posts have refered to a democratic Italy.

A confusing question: In the military stats the guy left, he named off some weapons as such that I can guess at their nature, but he has labels such as Expert and Average. Does this mean their tech level compared to my own, or is it just mumbo-jumbo?


If no one minds I'll be making all weapons being constructed at the time of 1946 completed, and have no new items being constructed.

Sharina did you read my TG?

Here is my revised factbook, changed a lot, and threw in a civil war with all these territories I found that i had from reading the last guy's factbook. I will make the thread for the civil war later when I have more time.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10688203#post10688203

ooc
we have been treating Italy has being generous to its Libyan citizens, so unless that changes, assume they are treated as part of Italy. I would call the Mass the Senate, as that is after all a traditional Roman term (and Rome is the highlight of Italian history after all).

I would call the dictator the Doge (a Venetian term)

expert and average refer to pilot quality or unit quality. See military thread for what that means (first page discusses training levels)

Assume Vatican City is seperate from Italy proper for convenience (so if we ever get someone who wants to play the Pople, we can fit that in)

Italy has no military alliances at this time but is part of the UN. Relations between Italy and the US/UK are assumed to be friendly, and Slovenia by the way is also an Italian client state (after the Third Great War).

The population of Italy is not real excited about going to war again anytime soon, although Italy has close ties with Greece, which it supported when Greece and Turkey fought after the Third World War. Italian naval forces were drawn into that dispute by the way, and an Italian cruiser sank after hitting a mine. That was a few years back, nothing noteworthy in the foreign affairs area since then (no active player)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10693888#post10693888

"The Autocracy's Pillar"

Pretty much me reviewing Italy up until today and what not and issueing its inevitable fascist-like political change. It also inclues bits of my minature civil war (which will be backstage event in this RP).

Truitt, a couple notes on your RP, just minor notes. The Rheinland is, as I understand it, a separate nation, Burgundy, and the Jews aren't in Israel, but Argentina.

Truitt, a couple notes on your RP, just minor notes. The Rheinland is, as I understand it, a separate nation, Burgundy, and the Jews aren't in Israel, but Argentina.

The Rhineland is part of Germany. Burgundy is a buffer state between France and Germany which consists of Luxembourg and Alasce-Lorraine.

Also, Africa is relatively prosperous and has suffered no coups or revolutions in this timeline.

Truitt, a couple notes on your RP, just minor notes. The Rheinland is, as I understand it, a separate nation, Burgundy, and the Jews aren't in Israel, but Argentina.

There are also alot of Jews in Pakistan/India (they have their own semi-autonomous province. It's mostly made up of Manmasseh jews, though)

I have question who doesn't want me to join?

I didn't know where to put this so it's here at the moment. If you like, feel free to crosspost it to the Beijing thread or wherever.

IC: The Rashidi and other anti-Saud family factions in Saudi Arabia begin to get (very) large transfers of money into their accounts and in the form of local currency as well as precious metals. It is unknown by anyone who the mysterious benefactor is, but most intelligence sources (anyone who has one) find out due to the large sums involved and state that it must have originated from a national government due to the amounts involved and precision of the donations. The sheer quantity of the money points to the likelihood of it being a western government and one interested in the area.

The recipients immediately put the money to use by training men and purchasing weapons and other equipment with it. This is done in secret as much as possible, in the vast stretches of the Northern desert regions. Numbers of local and foreign mercenaries are hired and quiet questions are asked of the National Guard, as to whether they will support a strike against the current government.

OOC: The total sum comes to 20 points, a massive investment which is likely to yield results in the form of a coup in a few months time. Anyone interested in investigating using their intel agencies? MI6 may well look into it.

I didn't know where to put this so it's here at the moment. If you like, feel free to crosspost it to the Beijing thread or wherever.

IC: The Rashidi and other anti-Saud family factions in Saudi Arabia begin to get (very) large transfers of money into their accounts and in the form of local currency as well as precious metals. It is unknown by anyone who the mysterious benefactor is, but most intelligence sources (anyone who has one) find out due to the large sums involved and state that it must have originated from a national government due to the amounts involved and precision of the donations. The sheer quantity of the money points to the likelihood of it being a western government and one interested in the area.

The recipients immediately put the money to use by training men and purchasing weapons and other equipment with it. This is done in secret as much as possible, in the vast stretches of the Northern desert regions. Numbers of local and foreign mercenaries are hired and quiet questions are asked of the National Guard, as to whether they will support a strike against the current government.

OOC: The total sum comes to 20 points, a massive investment which is likely to yield results in the form of a coup in a few months time. Anyone interested in investigating using their intel agencies? MI6 may well look into it.

the CIA will look to see if its someone new, or simply someone already playing pumping more money into the mess

erm,
GB did you recieve a TM from me?

erm,
GB did you recieve a TM from me?

no

Syria's SFIR will investigate.

China's TIA agency shall investigate the situation and "mysterious benefactors" in Arabia.

South Africa's FVD will investigate (possibly in conjunction with MI6 if Britain is willing). South Africa has little vested interest in the region, but views this as an opportunity to gain field experience.

The ISI will also search to see who the mysterious benefactor is, although it assumes that the most likely candidate is the SU.

Ah well, those comparisons were just to give examples on the problems that exist. I will edit them out to form any confusion. Now Jews in Israel? I am surprised no one has tried to RP them trying to reclaim their "Holy Land."

There are Jews, just not a jewish state. While I wasn't here at the time, I believe the justification was to give them somewhere to be safe, where they would be accepted. Jews are actually much better off in this Jerusalem since they haven't been accused of stealing the holy land.

Ah well, those comparisons were just to give examples on the problems that exist. I will edit them out to form any confusion. Now Jews in Israel? I am surprised no one has tried to RP them trying to reclaim their "Holy Land."

Let 'em try.
United Republican Army + Arab League Defense Force + Aid from Allies = Why Israel doesn't exist right now. :D
What would be more interesting is something like the Vatican forming a massive army from christians across the world and starting a crusade. Technically, since the Vatican is a nation, they could do that.

South Africa has little vested interest in the region, but views this as an opportunity to gain field experience.

The Korean National Police Agency (Korean Intel) decides to investigate, using a similar rationale.

Ah well, those comparisons were just to give examples on the problems that exist. I will edit them out to form any confusion. Now Jews in Israel? I am surprised no one has tried to RP them trying to reclaim their "Holy Land."

you need to do a thorough read through of the RP history of this timeline to get a better feel for things. Koryan, you need to read up on it as well. The Ottoman Empire lasting until 1940 is a major reason the Mideast looks like it does in this timeline at this date.

Zionism in this timeline diverted to Argentina due to incentives provided by the Argentine government at the time (1901 - 04). Only a few settled there, but enough to gain a measure of autonomy in Argentina (both players subsequently left the RP). Then, the First Great War broke out in 1904 and lasted for 3 years. Involving just the European powers (and the British stayed out, as did the Americans) it shattered Austria Hungary and led to communist revolutions within a few years in Germany and Russia. Both Communist/Socialist nations provided a measure of security for Jews, and as Poland, the Ukraine, Russia and Germany is where most of the Jews of Pre Holocaust Europe lived, most stayed there. Many also went to the US to follow families who moved there during the late 19th Century.

The 2nd and 3rd Great Wars involved the Capitalist LTA versus the Socialist Pact, and neither war saw genocide as a tactic (at least not directed against the Jews).

So the defining event of the 20th Century that historically led directly to substantial immigration to Palestine of Jews in large numbers did not occur. There are substantial numbers of Jews living all over the Mideast, but they are the ones that have traditionally been there and are as much a part of those societies as the various types of Christians that live there.

So Palestine is multi ethnic region dominated by Arab Moslems, but not an anti Jewish or anti Christian region. The real fanatics lost out to Syria and Egypt after a short war.

Let 'em try.
United Republican Army + Arab League Defense Force + Aid from Allies = Why Israel doesn't exist right now. :D
What would be more interesting is something like the Vatican forming a massive army from christians across the world and starting a crusade. Technically, since the Vatican is a nation, they could do that.

Technically the Jews could take over Palestine by immigrating in massive numbers and electing Jewish leaders. They couldn't create an actual Jewish state, but they break the muslim majority.

Technically the Jews could take over Palestine by immigrating in massive numbers and electing Jewish leaders. They couldn't create an actual Jewish state, but they break the muslim majority.

ooc
read previous post

At this point, why would they? They can visit Jerusalem anytime they want as tourists it seems, and the historical incentives to create a Jewish State have not occured in this timeline.

Well, the Zionist movement did begin in the late 1800's, and some more puritanical Jews probably would prefer the Holy Land, although the same could probably be said for Christians.

This is a little off-topic, but I was wondering if South Africa has a larger-than-historical Jewish population as well? In RL South Africa has the largest population of Jews in sub-Saharan Africa (largest in Africa, actually, after the IDF evacuated the Beta Israel from Ethiopia), and that's not counting the Lemba.

This is a little off-topic, but I was wondering if South Africa has a larger-than-historical Jewish population as well? In RL South Africa has the largest population of Jews in sub-Saharan Africa (largest in Africa, actually, after the IDF evacuated the Beta Israel from Ethiopia), and that's not counting the Lemba.

Probably so. People generally prefer to live where it is safe and they have an economic future or think they will. So far in this century, at least since 1903, South Africa has been a safe place to live and since the 1930s has been growing into a major world economic power.

Well, the Zionist movement did begin in the late 1800's, and some more puritanical Jews probably would prefer the Holy Land, although the same could probably be said for Christians.

the numbers though would not be statistically significant

South Africa has little vested interest in the region, but views this as an opportunity to gain field experience.

The IIA takes the same opinion and a small investigation is launched into the source of this aid.

Can someone answer my question. Can I join?

The SU will definetely be investigating the points to the Rashidi's.

I'd also like to use my intell agency in Saudi Arabia to try to stop a coup before it happens.

The KND decides to look further into it (Read: make sure no one finds out).

OOC: And SU, shouldn't the Scandics be more worried about Germany's nuke program ;)

OOC: O they are definetely more worried about you, but Saudi Arabia is a close second.

Also, I'd think by now the Rashidi's following would be pretty decimated after the war, they did lose what, two full infantry corps destroyed plus two pilots.

Indeed the Rashidis are a bit battered by the war, but there's still a few of them left (and with combat experience now) who are very bitter to the Saudi government plus a lot of other, smaller, families who could choose to ally with them to ensure they get first pick of government jobs, paychecks and contracts if a new government gets into power. They have a strong incentive to get government posts so that they can use the power to bribe people or else "skim some off the top" of government money etc. Which, I believe, would be pretty common in the area. Also I think that tax collectors were pretty well off in 20th century Arabia, the government told them how much they wanted to recieve from their area and the taxman went out and collected this money plus a bit on the top which made up his wages, many become quite rich doing this as noone wanted to argue with a government employee.

Still, end result is there are many who would ally with a potential coup leader to end the government (as there would be in most countries, let alone one as unstable as Saudi Arabia).

List of investigating nations and intel agencies:

UK-MI6
US-CIA
Syria-SFIR
China-TIA
South Afrcia-FVD (working alongside MI6)
Pakistan-ISI
Korea-KNPA
USEA-IIA
Scandic Union-
German-KND

I'll factor in everything (including experience in intel, familiarity with area, motives, potential resource base and a random chance factor) and TG anyone who discovers anything. OK?

Malyer, is it OK if I TG you the ESA space plans for this year and the chances of success. You can then roll for them and TG me the results, I have done everyone else's space plans but thought that doing it this way would avoid an accusations of bias.

There is basically a % chance of success that I assign to each attempt and it just requires rolling for.

Malyer, is it OK if I TG you the ESA space plans for this year and the chances of success. You can then roll for them and TG me the results, I have done everyone else's space plans but thought that doing it this way would avoid an accusations of bias.

There is basically a % chance of success that I assign to each attempt and it just requires rolling for.

As in, rolling a die? Sure, no problem.

Why won't anyone answer my questions?

Why won't anyone answer my questions?

Sharina did answer you a few pages back (I can't remember how far back).... send him a TG

I look back and didn't find it.

FYI, tommorow I'm going to go to a fine arts festival until Saturday night. Not sure how much, if any, time I will get. Should anything nasty happen, I'll let LR deal with the deatails. Otherwise, I'm sure you all can wait :)

I too will be pretty busy for the next 10 days, but will post when I can

working on some ideas in the military and economic threads by the way

As in, rolling a die? Sure, no problem.

Yep, just a couple of dice.

TG is on it's way.

im gonna be gone for 3 days 2... but who cares about Brazil anyway.....

Results of investigations in Arabia (Since Parthini labelled the points on his economic builds I don't see any harm in stating this here instead of by about a dozen TGs):

UK-MI6 working with South Afrcia-FVD
Discover complete German involvement in coup, due to intense undercover work and top secret reconnaisance flights over the area.

US-CIA
Discover complete German involvement in coup, due to intense undercover work and top secret reconnaisance flights over the area.

Syria-SFIR
Due to local contacts made during invasion, discover complete German involvement in all parts of coup program.

China-TIA, Pakistan-ISI, Korea-KNPA, USEA-IIA
No contacts in area, largely unsuitable aircraft for secret reconnaissance, also difference in racial types makes it difficult to find suitable loyal agents for infiltration. Several light aircraft flights note small camps in North being set up but could be normal tribal activity. No other real results but do discover something of the extent of money being funneled into the area but no idea of the real reason for it.

Scandic Union-
With strong motives pushing them, local agents trained during allied defence and local contacts the SU agents discover German involvement but do not know to what extent all the funding came from them. They do have some leads on the money but appear to be short of leads and hard evidence.

German-KND
Attempt to stop all efforts to discover source of funding, they are overstretched due to all the foreign involvement though, but concentrate on attempting to stop the SU discovering the truth, with some success.

There you have it folks, i'll leave the results of the coup until you have all seen this and had chance to act upon it. Remember though that this information is not world knowledge and only the above nations know about it. It's only here because it's common knowledge anyway, otherwise I would have used TG.

Syria takes note of this information, but does nothing with it yet.

KNPA, after this effort, issues a recommendation to the Kim Government for more funding (so it can actually recruit Non-Koreans).

China-TIA, Pakistan-ISI, Korea-KNPA, USEA-IIA
No contacts in area, largely unsuitable aircraft for secret reconnaissance, also difference in racial types makes it difficult to find suitable loyal agents for infiltration. Several light aircraft flights note small camps in North being set up but could be normal tribal activity. No other real results but do discover something of the extent of money being funneled into the area but no idea of the real reason for it.



Why would I have no sources? Until last year, India bordered Arabia. Don't you think the biggest power in the region would have had alot of contacts to make sure it's crazy neighbors weren't trying to pull anything?

The SU is publicly “inviting” the Saudi Royal family to visit Scandinavia and to discuss current matters with the Scandic President.(Privately informing them it is to keep them safe and protected if a coup does occur). The SU is also going to distribute 8 points to the Saudi military, and veterans of the recent war, as bonus pay for their service and loyalty.(On top of the other 8 points already given to SA this year to help their economy) The most loyal elements of the Saudi army along with the Scandic mech division and with help from the Scandic air force is to begin destroying the camps in northern Arabia.



I know about Germany restarting his nuclear program right?

Why would I have no sources? Until last year, India bordered Arabia. Don't you think the biggest power in the region would have had alot of contacts to make sure it's crazy neighbors weren't trying to pull anything?

I guessed much of the intelligence service would be disrupted by the civil war, many staff would have defected to the UIR, and files destroyed when the coup became apparant (as happens in sceret police/intel agencies when coups occur, to hide anything that may offend the new government). I feel that these factors would have resulted in no useful intel being recovered, though if you RP some reforms going on in your intel sources or some more missions being undertaken then your intel agency will gradually improve.

The SU is publicly “inviting” the Saudi Royal family to visit Scandinavia and to discuss current matters with the Scandic President.(Privately informing them it is to keep them safe and protected if a coup does occur). The SU is also going to distribute 8 points to the Saudi military, and veterans of the recent war, as bonus pay for their service and loyalty.(On top of the other 8 points already given to SA this year to help their economy) The most loyal elements of the Saudi army along with the Scandic mech division and with help from the Scandic air force is to begin destroying the camps in northern Arabia.



I know about Germany restarting his nuclear program right?

The Saudi Royal family will take up your offer and move to the SU until their safety can be assured (OOC: taking up duties as temporary NPC mod here) The 8 points are gladly recieved and will be used to train up a couple more mechanised divisions (not ready until next year). Spurred on by the SU advice the Saudis begin conducting reconnaisance and attack the rebel camps that they know about. Several are destroyed inflicting fairly heavy losses on both sides, though lessened by SU air cover. German made weapons are discovered, but no hard evidence can be found. The Saudi people who learn of these attacks through word of mouth and several pro-rebel newspapers are shocked that the government would seek to kill their own people so soon after a major and bloody war shook their country. Especially people who had done no harm (yet) but to speak out against the government. Several small scale demonstrations take place in the Northern towns.

As to knowledge of the nuclear weapons prgram, currently Britain and the USA know about them through high tech recon missions flying over Germany and using radiation detectors and high zoom cameras, but as of yet no one else knows. Do you have any spy planes?

China's Triad Intel Agency (TIA)...

Goal:

200,000 personnel at minimum (field operatives, administrators, staff, faciliators, researchers, etc.)

Establish training camps throughout China similiar to "The Farm" that the RL USA's CIA employs to train its recruits.

Set up labs similiar to the FBI's Criminal Lab to help faciliate evidence-gathering efforts and aid in other covert ops research efforts.

Establish Black Ops Research Labs (for all these nifty black ops stuff like in the James Bond movies).

----------------------------

Doable for China?

We also have a relativity small Jewish population as well in the Bulgarian Kingdom like some others in Europe. They pose absolutely no problem towards the Muslim or other communities as far as racism or strife is concerned and they get along really well with each other...

I will be gone for the next 48 hours

I will be gone for the next 48 hours

Why?

Do you have any spy planes?

Yep.

Do you have any spy planes?

One thing-is it possible to say, buy Avro Vulcans and make them into photorecon planes? I put that on my last build to get some sort of spy plane into my arsenal.

buy Avro Vulcans and make them into photorecon planes

Sure that'll work, but Britain is not chosing to offer them for general sale abroad yet though. Strictly to close allies (USA, Commonwealth, maybe EEC countries). Though other high altitude planes could work, won't be as effective as American made U2 aircraft though (which the USA controls and has exported a few to the UK for MI6), the recon craft will give you a better chance though.

Yep.

May I ask what type of aircraft? The best in the world are the American U2 aircraft but I don't know if you bought any of these? Otherwise any high altitude aircraft can be used but has bigger risks of detection and they are less effective.

EDIT: Results of Arabian Coup up tomorrow once I have had chance to sleep, something which I seem to be missing recently.

Converted Tu16's and Tu95's, haven't bought any U2's.

At some point, perhaps it will have to wait until GB gets back, but can I get a solid definition of what "the ability to build nuclear power plants" is? Is it just 24 points/year for 3 years or is it something different? Ive put 20.75 points in so far.

At some point, perhaps it will have to wait until GB gets back, but can I get a solid definition of what "the ability to build nuclear power plants" is? Is it just 24 points/year for 3 years or is it something different? Ive put 20.75 points in so far.

I believe that it costs 24 points to build one nuclear power plant, just like building a factory.

At some point, perhaps it will have to wait until GB gets back, but can I get a solid definition of what "the ability to build nuclear power plants" is? Is it just 24 points/year for 3 years or is it something different? Ive put 20.75 points in so far.

be tech level 7, spend 72 points over 3 years to develop the infrastructure (fuel seperation plants and radiation storage) along with the research needed to develop nuclear power systems (another 24 points) plus 72 points if you do not already have atomic weapons technology (over 3 years as well)

or as follows
1. 3 years to develop atomic fission technology
2. 3 years to develop fuel seperation plants
( 1 and 2 can be in cojunction)
3. 1 year to develop fission reactor technology

Alrighty then, Operation Kharaaba will be open to all Arab League members to contribute to.

EDIT: why do we need weapons technology for power plants, I honestly dont want the bombs.

Alrighty then, Operation Kharaaba will be open to all Arab League members to contribute to.

EDIT: why do we need weapons technology for power plants, I honestly dont want the bombs.

fission technology is pretty much the same... although I suppose taking off 12 points of research costs (which the technology of creating nuclear triggers) would be fair.

by the way, I will be really busy the next couple of days, so I will check in when I can

Arabian Coup First Stage Results:

Dissention grows in the North with the tribes there angered by the government attack of their homes and camps. Several reprisals are made against Saudi military units and several on both sides are killed, German made weapons are recovered from the rebel dead and the Saudi government starts a massive mobilisation to crack down upon it. However this just seems to make the situation deteriorate even more, explosive devices begin to cause devastation in urban areas, particularly anything related to the government, this includes post offices, town halls, police stations and, of course, military establishments. However the bombers are always sure to notify the pub;ic just prior to detonation so that civilian casualties are minimised. Security at the Saudi capital, Riyadh, is improved and the Royal Guard are increased. A curfew for civilians is implemented between the hours of 7pm and 7am in urban areas and enforced by armed army personnel.

This causes dissatisfaction in the populace at the government who they see as being authoritarian, and unwilling to change, especially having just experienced a bloody war. Small scale demonstrations by civilians begin after curfew time in the cities furthest from the capital, the offenders are quickly arrested and thrown in jail. However the people see this as outrageous and mass uprisings begin in the northern cities. The police and thinly spread army personnel unable to stop the riots, with many tearing off their uniforms and joining in. The flames spread quickly and soon the towns of Al Hufuf, Buraydah and Haradh, all local control being lost. The army is torn apart by those loyal to the Saudis and those who want change. The situation is worsened by the knowledge that the Royal Family has fled from Arabia to refuge in the Scandi Union. Soon disturbances begin to spread in the capital and the provisional government is forced to convene. It asks the local Scandic Commander what he wishes to do, bearing in mind that many of the people are asking for changes and that the much of teh Saudi military has defected. The disorder is likely to get worse whilst no information is given to the civilians or if the military is caused upon to attack them (which they may refuse to do).

Could you add the Following links to the main page? It would be much appreciated:

United Islamic Republics:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=475845

Arab League:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=475909

(OOC: Since this deals with both the Arabian coup, actions involving PCs, and actions involving NPCs, I figured I'd post it here.)

While currently unwilling to directly do anything about the state of affairs in Arabia, sends messages to the foreign ministries of Baghdad, Jordan, Basra, and Kuwait, informing them that if they need help dealing with refugees, Syria could aid them.

A message hand delivered to the Rashidi government by a SFIR agent lets them know that, while Syria cannot do anything, the Arabian people feel deserted with their leaders fleeing, and that Syria believes a united Arabia would be more powerful than the two nations could be separately. Regardless of the Rashidi decision, Syria looks forward to supporting its neighbors in the future.

The Scandic commander in Saudi Arabia is told to inform the government, and spread word to the people that a further 8 points of aid, on top of the 8 already given this year and the 16 given last year(Which helped finish build a prod center in Ha'il), will be distributed among the Saudi people. Also, the Scandic Union is calling for limited democratic reforms in Saudi Arabia. The Scandic commander in Ryadh is also asking the Saudi provisional government that demostrations be allowed to carry on without being interefered with by the army.

Also, the Scandic Union is calling for limited democratic reforms in Saudi Arabia. The Scandic commander in Ryadh is also asking the Saudi provisional government that demostrations be allowed to carry on without being interefered with by the army.

If that's not a SIC, Egypt applauds the SU. Also, to begin collecting intelligence on all this, Egypt's E121 will begin collecting data on army movements, protests, demonstrations, Rashidi training camps, etc. A few Egyptian agents will also be sent in as new recruits to the Rashidi Army for intelligence collecting.

Groups of Rashidi supporters are seen throughout the major cities telling the Arab people not to listen to the Scandic lies. "Look at what thier aid has brought: death and destruction, not peace and harmony. The factories created by them are being used not to produce goods for the people but guns for the greedy!"

Other words informing the Arabian People that the tyrants known as the Saud family have fled the country and left the Arabs to be slaves of the Scandinavian Union; Arabia is now nothing more than a mere colony.

Remarks about some of their unusal accents and somewhat light skin are made.

Germany watches the situation closely, but the German Embassy in Riyadh is put under armed watch and no one, save anyone personally known to the staff is let in.

If that's not a SIC, Egypt applauds the SU. Also, to begin collecting intelligence on all this, Egypt's E121 will begin collecting data on army movements, protests, demonstrations, Rashidi training camps, etc. A few Egyptian agents will also be sent in as new recruits to the Rashidi Army for intelligence collecting.

ooc
where did you get an E121? The US isn't selling them although the US is selling S1 Tracers (not as good, but better then nothing). Incidently, equilivant aircraft can be developed soon, figure 8 years after Egypt reached tech level 7

ooc
where did you get an E121? The US isn't selling them although the US is selling S1 Tracers (not as good, but better then nothing). Incidently, equilivant aircraft can be developed soon, figure 8 years after Egypt reached tech level 7

Sorry, sending a S1 (I put E121 on my military thread for some reason). And do you mean I'll actually get to build my own aircraft or I'll just be able to purchase them?

not sure where to ask this, so I'll just post here.

What nations are members of the European Space Agency/alliance?

The European Economic Coaliton/Cooperation/Community (I forget which) is made up of Britain, France, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands and Burgundy.

The ESA is just Britain, Germany and France.

The European Economic Coaliton/Cooperation/Community (I forget which)

Community.

------------------

Dissaffacted Arabs gather outside the major government buildings in Riydah as well as the various palaces, there are few circumstances of violence and most keep well away from any police or army personnel. They hope that news will come through that the Saudi government will move to a democratic system, that the Saudi family has been deposed and that there will be a reduction in the dependence upon the SU. They are likely to get more agressive if nothing happens.

---

British citizens in Arabia are advised to make their way to the British Embassy or else one of their allies in the old LTA, the EEC or Commonwealth. They are informed that this is for their own safety in the recent disturbancies. The IDs of every citizen are checked thoroughly prior to entry and the guards are stepped up.

Radio Broadcast from Kaiser Hubertus, May 6, 1954

... And so, my Teutonic Bretheren, it is now that Germany finally, after risen from the ashes, here brushes off those ashes and dons a cloak of power. No more will any nation dictate to Germany what it shall do. From this day forth, Germany will be ranked among the great Empires of the world!

How, you ask, can Germany become greater?

My friends, several years ago, under the reign of my father, Germany began construction of its own nuclear weapons program. However, due to the rash and jealous ideals of the Scandic Union, Germany was forced to halt the program. However, all has changed.

On January 5, Germany will join the rest of the world powers in detonating its first Atomic weapon. Plans have already been made and this detonation will take place in the deserts of South Afrika, thanks to our allies' cooperation.

This production is not meant to be a belligerent move. It is only for the ability of the German People to take their righeous claim to world power! Onward and Upward Mein Freunds!

The Syrian Embassy grounds in Riyadh, overcrowed with citizens, mainly aid workers, will be relieved by a helicopter extraction of some citizens. Any friendly embassies that need evacuation can be reached at that time. Scandanavian and Saudi police are asked to ensure the safety of these helicopters, as they will be bearing diplomatic and aid workers.

Parthini']
Remarks about some of their unusal accents and somewhat light skin are made.

.

OOC: My troops are stationed away from the cities, that was one of the points agreed to in the conference.

IC:The Saud family is asked to return to Saudi Arabia and democratic elections are promised on the local and provincial level in five months to be overseen by the U.N. and rumors are spread about possible parlimentary elections if things quiet down.

Parthini']Radio Broadcast from Kaiser Hubertus, May 6, 1954

... And so, my Teutonic Bretheren, it is now that Germany finally, after risen from the ashes, here brushes off those ashes and dons a cloak of power. No more will any nation dictate to Germany what it shall do. From this day forth, Germany will be ranked among the great Empires of the world!

How, you ask, can Germany become greater?

My friends, several years ago, under the reign of my father, Germany began construction of its own nuclear weapons program. However, due to the rash and jealous ideals of the Scandic Union, Germany was forced to halt the program. However, all has changed.

On January 5, Germany will join the rest of the world powers in detonating its first Atomic weapon. Plans have already been made and this detonation will take place in the deserts of South Afrika, thanks to our allies' cooperation.

This production is not meant to be a belligerent move. It is only for the ability of the German People to take their righeous claim to world power! Onward and Upward Mein Freunds!


It is a shame that Germany, which has proven its self in this past century to be the most violent and bloodthirsty nation in Europe, has been allowed to develop nuclear weapons. But as saddening as it is, the Scandic Union has no choice but to accept this new reality.

Dissaffacted Arabs gather outside the major government buildings in Riydah as well as the various palaces, there are few circumstances of violence and most keep well away from any police or army personnel.

Republican citizens are called to the embassy then the doors are locked. Snipers are posted on the roof should the embassy be attacked. 2 Elite Armored Divisions and 2 Elite Mountain Brigades are readied in eastern Palestine. 2 Dassault Mirage III's with Elite Pilots begin patrolling Palestinian airspace and the Red Sea. The Republican presidents have yet to address their people or even officially announce who their support rests with.

Syria, having recieved no response from the Scandics or Saudis, decides to go ahead with the relief missions for the embassy, and will probably visit others if needed.

In Al Hufuf, Mohammad Ibn Talal, Chief of the Rashidi Family, backed by anti-Saudi Arabs declares the Saudi Royal Family defunct and no longer head of Arabia. The New Provisional Republic of Arabia was declared and a council of the chieftans and local leaders was created. A call for all Arabs to support this new cause and to reject the oppressive Saudis is put out.

Germany immediately recognizes this new Republic and begins shifting personnel from Riyadh to Al Hufuf.

Secret
The ISI informs the Scandic Union and the Saudi's that if the House of Saud needs a place of refuge, India is full of remote locations where they could live undisturbed.

Britain refuses to acknowledge the Rashidi led nation unless elections, overseen by impartial Un personnel, can take place.

GB seems to have difficulty in posting so here's the response to the Arabian situation that he has TGed to me:

The US 5th Fleet (USS Saratoga battlgroup, a Midway type carrier in real life terms and its escorts) plus a helicopter carrier (the USS Bon Homme Richard, an Essex type carrier with a marine battalion aboard) enter the Persian Gulf to be available to evacuate Westerners from Saudi Arabia should it be needed.

OOC: My TG inbox has just overflowed with stuff today. More than 15 TGs were sent so it may have knocked a few out of the box before I managed to check it. If you sent a TG early this morning (GMT time) and you haven't recieved a reply you may wish to resend it as it may not have reached me. I have managed to answer most Tgs and whittled down my inbox so there should be enough space to accomodate them.

Cheers.

The Provisionary Council immediately calls for elections under these circumstances:
-The Saudi Royal Family immediately surrender all claim to any part of Arabia
-The Saudi Royal Family never return to Arabia on pain of death
-The Royal Guard Disband
-The Military Disband
-Elections are to be held in the Palace in Riyadh
-The Scandinavian Union is not allowed to interfere in Arabian Politics, including, but not only, arms shipments, military training, or aquire any Arabian oil
-Western Government(s), not including the SU, send representatives to assist in the building of a government

Chancellor Rommel, seeing the need for guidance for the Arab people, makes a highly dangerous trip to Al Hufuf, escorted by a Unit of BAC Lightnings and Two Royal Guard Brigades.

Syria will recognize the new state, but join the call for elections. However, perhaps the democratic states in the Arab League should lead the monitoring, because, as recent events have proven, there are some in Arabia less welcome of a Western influence. The Syrian Embassy in Riyadh will move to Al Hufuf, and if peacekeepers are needed we will help provide. Members of the Royal family with little or no governmental connections will be welcome in Syria.

In addition, beginning next year, limited funds may be available for the new nation's aid, conditional on financial suppport for the Arab League and its associated programs when the situation is more stable.

Parthini']The Provisionary Council immediately calls for elections under these circumstances:
-The Saudi Royal Family immediately surrender all claim to any part of Arabia
-The Saudi Royal Family never return to Arabia on pain of death
-The Royal Guard Disband
-The Military Disband
-Elections are to be held in the Palace in Riyadh
-The Scandinavian Union is not allowed to interfere in Arabian Politics, including, but not only, arms shipments, military training, or aquire any Arabian oil
-Western Government(s), not including the SU, send representatives to assist in the building of a government

Chancellor Rommel, seeing the need for guidance for the Arab people, makes a highly dangerous trip to Al Hufuf, escorted by a Unit of BAC Lightnings and Two Royal Guard Brigades.

ooc
how are all of these troops and aircraft getting to Saudi Arabia? This will require a flight from Germany over Yugoslavia, Greece, the Med, Egypt, Western Arabia and Saudi Arabia. Now I assume the Egyptians will allow overflights, but will the Yugoslavs etc allow several hundred flights of transport aircraft, jet fighters, and tankers over their air space?

Need Sharina to rule on this, or Malkyer. My guess, the Yugoslavs wont be excited about it, and neither would the Italians. However, they would provide escorts as would everyone else for the aircraft of a chief of state to fly overhead.

Everyone needs to keep these things in mind. NPC nations aren't going to just let you fly over them with an armada of aircraft.

If the BAC Lightnings cannot go to Arabia, Syrian Mirage IIIs could provide escort roles.

Along similar lines, perhaps the Luftwaffe should get a base in the Middle East, given with all your meddling and all.

OOC: Heh... I keep forgetting that we're not all one big Red Morass anymore... My thought was to use an Ar 232 to transport the Brigades and have Rommel in his own jet.

And yes... an Airbase in the Mideast would be nice...

BTW, who owns Aqaba in this timeline? Egypt, Saudi Arabia or Jordan?

Parthini']BTW, who owns Aqaba in this timeline? Egypt, Saudi Arabia or Jordan?

Jordan (for simplicity)

If Jordan didn't own it they'd be even more screwed than they are now. Jordan is probably the worst designed country ever, no resources, no industry worth mentioning, crazy neighbors on all sides. If you get rid of Aqabah then they have truly nothing at all.

how are all of these troops and aircraft getting to Saudi Arabia? This will require a flight from Germany over Yugoslavia, Greece, the Med, Egypt, Western Arabia and Saudi Arabia. Now I assume the Egyptians will allow overflights, but will the Yugoslavs etc allow several hundred flights of transport aircraft, jet fighters, and tankers over their air space?

OOC:
Actually German military aircraft can't go through Egypt, Palestine, or Sudan. The Republican Army is part of the Arab League Defense Force and would have to arrest them (for violation of the Treaty of Beijing).

And Jordan can't complain about being a sitting duck. I offered to let them become a republic in the UR.

OOC:Well, considering that the Saudis have ceased to exist as a political entity, I'd say the treaty is voided.

OOC:
Actually German military aircraft can't go through Egypt, Palestine, or Sudan. The Republican Army is part of the Arab League Defense Force and would have to arrest them (for violation of the Treaty of Beijing).

And Jordan can't complain about being a sitting duck. I offered to let them become a republic in the UR.

OOC: They're not complaining, nor refusing to join you. They just like the huge amounts of aid they get :p

I'm also glad to see you've decided to commit political suicide. Either way, the Treaty of Beijing doesn't say German Aircraft can't travel through your lands. Besides, they're not doing anything... just being escorts.

If you continue to be so stubborn, consider your relations in Germany to take a hit.

Parthini']I'm also glad to see you've decided to commit political suicide. Either way, the Treaty of Beijing doesn't say German Aircraft can't travel through your lands. Besides, they're not doing anything... just being escorts.

If you continue to be so stubborn, consider your relations in Germany to take a hit.

OOC:
I'm not doing any of the sort. I just said military aircraft can't cross through Republican airspace.

If worst comes to worst, Germany could always use a carrier group to ship Rommel and the resources to Al Hufuf. Nobody can do anything or restrict travel through international waters, civilian or military.

Amidst the chaos in Arabia, unrest strikes the heart of Palestine. Angry Palestinians flooded the city and began wrecking havoc on the city. Cars were overturned, homes and officies of Europeans were set ablaze, and thousands flooded the holy cites, killing white tourists and even destroying some Christian sites. The cause of the sudden and massive demonstration revealed itself at dusk - the Palestinian Liberation Organization. The leader, Yasser Arafat, gathered hundreds of demonstrators to the Dome of the Rock where he gave a moving speech:

" Less than 800 years ago, blood-thirsty Christians, hailing from Europe and Byzantine, stole this city from the muslims, who held it peacefully and allowed open worship by people of all faiths. We had done no harm to anyone and yet they stormed into our nation without warning and slaughtered our ancestors! They killed our men, raped our women, and enslaved our children! They defiled our holy shrines and cursed the name of the great prophet!

Then a great man was sent by god to aid us. Salah al-Din lead the muslim armies, Egyptian, Syrian, and other muslims from across the land, and freed our people and saved Jerusalem from the Christian oppressors. Yet now, the Christians has stolen our holy city once again! The politicians can not help us, for they think like Europeans and are no better than them. Nassar of Egypt supports the dying cause of socialism, Naguib of Sudan loves christians more than muslims and is ready to sit and watch the Europeans take control of the Arab World, and Ahmad Shukeiri, our very own president, just sits and ignores the Europeans as they infest our great city.

Today I ask you, as a fellow Arab, as a fellow Palestinian, as a fellow Muslim, do not let the horrors of the crusades be forgotten. The slaughters... the massacres... the crimes against the muslim people simply because of our beliefs. If the European soldiers are not gone in 12 days, let them feel the wrath of Saladin once more! If the christians want to launch another crusade, we will show them that Islam is not afraid. Allah has created us. Muhammad has guided us. Europe shall not destroy us!"

With the end of his speech, the crowd cheered. The man, a no body just minutes earlier, was now the symbol of Palestinian Liberation. The fate of the organization, however, was uncertain.

OOC: What kind of 20th Century RP can we have without the PLO? Sure, their goal is a lot smaller in this timeline, but they're facing a much larger enemy.

Koryan, check your TGs

OOC: Umm... will Syria and Baghdad let me fly over?

BTW, who owns Kish Island? The UIR?

On October 5th from a newly built facility in northern Finland the first Scandic rocket was launched carrying one passenger. The sub-orbital mission went off without a problem, and a second one followed a week later and was just as succesfull.

While the Scandic Union kicked off its space program, out to sea the newly commissioned Carl Gustaf, the Scandic Unions first ballistic missile sub went on a test cruise in the North Sea. When they reached Bear Island the Gustaf launched a nuclear tipped SLBM that traveled across the North Sea before harmlessly detonating above the waves.

Germany could go ahead and use Bulgarian airspace freely like every other nation in a peaceful state...within reason of course.

The Kaiser personally sends his thanks to the Bulgarian People.

Syrian airspace is open to German aircraft.

We are upset about the fact that radical fanatics have taken control in Palestine so soon after Syrians and Egyptians shed blood to remove them.

ooc
I will be gone nearly all weekend, so any questions for me will have to wait until monday

LR, did you get my tg or did it get pushed out of the box?

Um, can you replace the FAS news thread with the Pakistan news thread, please? It can be found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=475880).

I will update the thread when I get back from Easter holidays, probably on Monday. I'll have all the new links, turn over the year, and add the status of the Economic Depression when I get back.

Have a happy Easter, everybody!

While the Scandic Union kicked off its space program, out to sea the newly commissioned Carl Gustaf, the Scandic Unions first ballistic missile sub went on a test cruise in the North Sea. When they reached Bear Island the Gustaf launched a nuclear tipped SLBM that traveled across the North Sea before harmlessly detonating above the waves.

The ESA tracking centre on Heligoland detects both launches and information is passed to the British, French and German Intelligence agencies by the staff there. 3 of Britain's ballistics subs and 4 attack subs begin extensive "wargames" in the North Sea. Sticking strictly to British and International Waters, taking care to make extensive sweeps of the areas where oil has recently been discovered.

The local Scandic commander in ex-Saudi Arabia, receiving orders from very high up, acts and the mechanised division at the base alongside the airforce there as well as a few ultra-loyal Saudi Army troops makes strikes against the Rashidi factions. The organised strikes cause much bloodloss early on as the Rashidis cannot effectively react due to the spreading of their forces across the country trying to restore a semblance of order. Gradually the Scandics retake control of Riyadh and enforce a harsh curfew "for the safety of the people", statements by the local Scandics generally point to the illegal deposition of the Saudi family and that they are merely restoring order.

An infantry division is dispatched through Turkey to "restore order" in the North of the country and will arrive within 1-2 months.

Seeing this occur so near to their borders the Omanis react and launch a "peacekeeping mission" in the areas outside of Scandic control. Citing that the Scandics are acting illegally. Several infantry divisions are committed and covered by aircraft.

The British Indian Ocean Fleet liases with London and moves closer to Araboa supported by several ballistics subs and a carrier detached from the Pacific Fleet.

The German Reichstag condemns the Scandic Action in Arabia citing their oppression of a democratic uprising and obvious Scandic attempts to establish Arabia as a colony. However, the Reichstag takes no official stance.

The Kaiser, however, approaches the Reichstag to use military forces to assist the Rashidis. In the wake of the oil crisis, it would not be prudent to use military means to solve this issue, they say.

He is denied, and furious. Democracy is not as enjoyable as it seems.

OOC: LR, did you get my TG?

Britain officially throws her diplomatic support behind the Omani government, citing that they are attempting to stabilise the situation in Arabia and that they are loyal Commonwealth Allies. The Omanis are heartened by this and propose several more operations in Arabia, maybe involving starting from Western Arabia, an Omani client state. No British led military action is immediately forthcoming, but Britain urges the SU to cease their violent attempts to uphold a dictator in the face of a democratic uprising, especially regarding the recent missile launches so close to Britain and the furor regarding nuclear testing in Europe.

SECRETLY:

Needless to say Britain's ICBM missiles are target locked to various SU military establishments in Scandinavia and Arabia, and the military is at heightened readiness. However, officially no alert exists and no call ups have been issued, no leave cancelled and no TA mobilisations.

The nuclear submarines not on wargames in the North Sea (2 ballistics and 1 attack) are fully committed to the incident and will begin intel gathering and monitoring operations in the Gulf. MI6 also gear up operations in the area and begin sending over U2 intelligence planes.

-------------------------

Regarding TGs, I have been caught out by the large volume of them and will try to answer as many as possible over the next few days but I am entangled in revision for A levels and whatnot, plus a large war may possibly break out shortly...

OOC: Syria, Jordan, Kurdistan, Baghdad, Basra, and/or Kuwait are in between Arabia and Turkey, depending on what route you take. How is this division getting there?

IC:

Understandably, Syria supports the Omani movements. We consider the Treaty of Beijing no longer relevant with the Saudis ousted, and believe this is nothing short of a declaration of war on the Arabian people. If either Oman or Arabia asks for help, we will provide it.

The UIR disaproves of any further unrest in the Middle East but will watch the situation for now.

ooc. Basicly, the Ayatollahs are not amused by the Scandic Union Coup in Saudi Arabia.

Secret
Alarmed by the growing German influence in the Middle East, the ISI begins to send agents to the area to guage the situation, and to discover ways of assisting what remains of the Saudi's and the Scandic Union. In Pakistani opinion, a pro-Scandic dictatorship is better than a pro-German democracy.

Rashidi scouts are sent to the Hashemites in Western Arabia and Jordan and the Mesopotamian States of Baghdad and Basra seeking assistance by any means including, but not limited to, military or economic assistance and allowance of German, British, and Arab League armed forces to move through their land.

Meanwhile, the Rashidis rally and hold their positions, remaining on the defensive and keeping the moral high ground. They also await news of Western Assistance.

The Republican war machine begins mobilizing.
-Flak brigades sent to Nazareth and Cairo
-Garrison units are readied in Alexandria, Cairo, Khartoum, Haifa, and Suez.
-Dassault Mirage III's (Elite Pilots) begin patrolling Republican Airspace (ordered only to fire if fired upon)
-The S-1 Tracer begins flying over Syria, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia to warn of approaching armies.
-4 Armored Divisions and a Mechanized Division are prepared in Palestine to attack at a moment's notice.
-2 Armored Brigades are equipped with gas shells, one stationed in north Egypt and the other in Palestine.

President Nassar announces that the United Republics are ready to do anything to restore peace in the Middle East. Both the Egyptian and Palestinian Senates agree to enter the war if it erupts. The Sudanese Senate continues debating the issue.

The Rashidi and Saudi Families are warned that if either attempt to become monarch of Arabia, the UR will use force to maintain democracy in Arabia. Spies within the Rashidi Army are ordered to report their unit's location and destination once an hour. President Nassar politely requests that Oman not declare war just yet, as the Arab League isn't yet in position to aid Oman if it's invaded.
---------------------------
The PLO dealt another devastating blow to order in western Palestine when a suicide bomber destroyed the entrance to St. George's Cathedral, killing two security guards and injuring 3 civilians. An attempted car bombing of Church of the Holy Sepulchre that same day failed but did serious damage to the eastern corner of the building. Athough the car hit the building, the bomb failed to go off, perhaps saving the church. These are just two of the many strings of anti-Christian attacks due to the UN control over Jerusalem.

In hopes of restoring order, President Shukeiri has sent two Light Infantry Divisions to Jerusalem and declared martial law. This stirred up much political controversy, on whether Palestine has the right to send soldiers into Jerusalem or declare martial law. Shukeiri defends his actions by stating that the people being killed in Jerusalem are Palestinian and that the Palestinian government has the right to protect Palestinian citizens.

OOC: I just remembered that Shukeiri (President of Palestine) was one of the creators of the PLO and the first chairman of it in RL. Talk about alternate history. :(

The Ambassador in Cairo reminds the President that Arabia, under the Saudis, never was a democracy and "recommends" that the Republics' Armies take no action unless it be to assist the Rashidi Force.

if either attempt to become monarch of Arabia

If they don't try to take control of the government, they don't have anything to worry about.

ooc. Basicly, the Ayatollahs are not amused by the Scandic Union Coup in Saudi Arabia.

OOC: Scandic Union Coup? What do you mean by that? We are not participating in any coups, were putting one down, one that was funded and instigated by germany.

IC; The SU is calling for an immediate ceasefire so that the elections that had been called for months before by both the Scandic Union and the Saud family can take place, as long as the Rashidi's with their German backers continue the unrest elections are impossible.

Parthini']The Ambassador in Cairo reminds the President that Arabia, under the Saudis, never was a democracy and "recommends" that the Republics' Armies take no action unless it be to assist the Rashidi Force.

The Scandic ambassador reminds the German ambassador and the UR president that two months ago both the Scandic Union and the Saudi family called for elections to take place, elections that are being hampered by the continued unrest caused by German money and weapons.

As well as Scandic attacks on local civilians. By effectively hijacking the government, the Ambassador rebuttles, he was the one who delayed the elections. If the Scandics would leave the country, elections would take place. Instead, the Scandics kidnap the Royal Family and impose their own laws on the country.

Parthini']As well as Scandic attacks on local civilians. By effectively hijacking the government, the Ambassador rebuttles, he was the one who delayed the elections. If the Scandics would leave the country, elections would take place. Instead, the Scandics kidnap the Royal Family and impose their own laws on the country.

Okay, how about all foreign factions leave the country! A UN peace-keeping force (from neutral nations) can be dispatched to help keep peace during the election period. However, if elections have not taken place within 3 months, then you guys can dogpile on the Saudi Family.

IC: Germany has no military personnel stationed in Arabia, while the SU has an entire army! While it is true there are Germans in Arabia, they are their of their own volition, and while we do not condone their being there, we will protect them if they come under attack from hostile Scandic Forces.

BTW, what is the status of the Ba'ath party in E20? Because I see the perfect opportunity to fund a political group to make the Middle East the way I want it, not the way the Germans or Scandics want it (although, if I didn't have my way, I'd go with the way the Scanics are trying to make it).

I'm assuming it is very weak considering its two main objectives, Pan Arabism and anti-Zionism, have, respectively, been hijacked by the United Republics and never came into existance.

Either way, I think you kind of blew it with getting Middle Eastern support after you gassed them.

I know, I know, it's a different government, but trust me, if the typical RL American thinks all Russians are commies, then the typical E20 Middle Easterner thinks all Indians (sorry, Pakistanis) are gas using maniacs.

(although, if I didn't have my way, I'd go with the way the Scanics are trying to make it).

And you wonder why I make remarks about genocide...

OOC: SU, how is this Turkish Army getting to Arabia?

IC:

Several months ago, both the Saudi family and the Scandics did call for elections, but only when they were losing control of the country. Our calls for elections went unheeded because the Saudis had the complete control they wanted.

We believe all foreign militaries should completely withdraw from the country, meaning Scandic and Omani, to be replaced by a UN force.

However, these latest Scandic acts need to be responded to, so the following actions are being taken. The Air Force's Mirage IIIs (elite pilots) are doubling patrols, especially along the Turkish border. An Army group including 2 mountain brigades, a mechanized flak brigade, and an elite mechanized infantry brigade are moving to the Turkish border, and an elite Armored division, elite mechanized artillery division, and an elite helicopter unit, supported by an elite Do-337, will move to the south, ready to support actions in either Arabia or Palestine.

Parthini']As well as Scandic attacks on local civilians. By effectively hijacking the government, the Ambassador rebuttles, he was the one who delayed the elections. If the Scandics would leave the country, elections would take place. Instead, the Scandics kidnap the Royal Family and impose their own laws on the country.

Scandic attacks on civilians? It was the local Scandic commander that called for the Saudi's to allow demonstrations and rioting. And as for the Royal family, they happen to have returned to Saudi Arabia months ago.


Parthini']IC: Germany has no military personnel stationed in Arabia, while the SU has an entire army! While it is true there are Germans in Arabia, they are their of their own volition, and while we do not condone their being there, we will protect them if they come under attack from hostile Scandic Forces.

No, perhaps you don't have military forces there but you have sent thousands of tons of weaponry and millions of pounds to your puppet forces in Saudi Arabia. And as far as a Scandic army in Saudi Arabia, there is but a single division, one that is vastly outnumbered by the German funded and armed puppets across the nation.

OOC: SU, how is this Turkish Army getting to Arabia?
.

OOC: Either thruogh Turkey and the Turkic alliance member nations down through the UIR or through Egypt because Egypt offered me the right to lease a base on their territory and so if needed I'll take up that offer.

Britain adds her voice to those calling for a calm response to the Middle Eastern conflicts. The MoD officially states that they have no involvement in the turmoil but have stationed navy vessels in the Gulf to monitor the situation.

The SU embassy in London recieves a file anonymously detailing most of MI6's knowledge on the strength (but not dispositions or other helpful info) of the Omani army and detailing the inpracticalities of a SU deployment in the Middle East, alongside British intentions: to support the Omanis in their peacekeeping operations.

Britain officially calls for the SU to withdraw from the area as well as all other foreign forces apart from an Omani peacekeeping operation maybe supported by UN forces.

We believe all foreign militaries should completely withdraw from the country, meaning Scandic and Omani, to be replaced by a UN force.

Russia supports Syria's call for UN peace keepers and a withdrawel of foreign troops. To this end, Russia offers the services of its troops to the UN to be used as neutral peace keepers in the region as Russia has yet to involve itself in the region increasing the chances that the UN force will be seen as the neutral body it is.

Parthini']I'm assuming it is very weak considering its two main objectives, Pan Arabism and anti-Zionism, have, respectively, been hijacked by the United Republics and never came into existance.

Either way, I think you kind of blew it with getting Middle Eastern support after you gassed them.

I know, I know, it's a different government, but trust me, if the typical RL American thinks all Russians are commies, then the typical E20 Middle Easterner thinks all Indians (sorry, Pakistanis) are gas using maniacs.

Pfft, stupid United Republics. I still need to find some way to find Saddam and make him into a krazie Middle Eastern dictator, though. Because, really, what's a Middle East without Saddam Hussein?

Also, I may not have alot of support in the Middle East NOW (even though I never did anything to the Middle East, and have been pretty neutral in the region since the MEU civil war...), but people USED to think Germans were crazy nazi fanatics. 10 years later, they were either krazie Communists or Good ole-fashioned Kapitalizts on the front line of the Cold War. Opinions change.

Ahh, but it's only been 5 years since your civil war :)

Parthini']Ahh, but it's only been 5 years since your civil war :)

Only 5 years to go :D

And, just so you know, Germans and Russians are seen as crazy nuke-making warmongers in Pakistan :) It's kinda hard to forget the country that provided the nukes and khemikal weapons that killed 40 million of your fellow countrymen

Saddam could very well just take over the old fashioned way in Baghdad. He can't be all genocidal, as Iraq got factionalized, but he can still beat the people who lose soccer games with cables and dunk them in sewage. Pity his greatest E20 accomplishments will be in the IOC thread though...

Saddam could very well just take over the old fashioned way in Baghdad. He can't be all genocidal, as Iraq got factionalized, but he can still beat the people who lose soccer games with cables and dunk them in sewage. Pity his greatest E20 accomplishments will be in the IOC thread though...

Pfft, he can still be genocidal. Think Lebensraum, but for the Sunni's. He can invade Basra and Kurdistan to enlarge his empire. All he needs to do is get rid of the undesirables :p

Right, I have to make some compromises.

I have a lot of revision to do for my A Levels (school leaving exams over here) and have been finding it difficult to be a full military moderator as well. I reckon I can still do the military moderation, without impacting on my work but I would really be grateful if someone would volunteer to be conflict moderator. To sort out the wars and whatnot, just resolving them and posting the results. Otherwise we are going to end up in a mess. Thanks for any suggestions guys. Sorry I can't fulfil the whole job. Cheers.

Pfft, he can still be genocidal. Think Lebensraum, but for the Sunni's. He can invade Basra and Kurdistan to enlarge his empire. All he needs to do is get rid of the undesirables

Hussein will be fun when he shows up. It'll be slightly different but a Persian Gulf War should be fun.

Hussein will be fun when he shows up. It'll be slightly different but a Persian Gulf War should be fun.

Maybe Hussein could take over the UR instead of Basra. Or maybe he sets up a counter-UR, seeing how the UR is all peaceful, democratic, all that pink-commie hippie stuff, and then this Pan-Arab state he tries to make is a militarstic dictatorship.

Right, I have to make some compromises.

I have a lot of revision to do for my A Levels (school leaving exams over here) and have been finding it difficult to be a full military moderator as well. I reckon I can still do the military moderation, without impacting on my work but I would really be grateful if someone would volunteer to be conflict moderator. To sort out the wars and whatnot, just resolving them and posting the results. Otherwise we are going to end up in a mess. Thanks for any suggestions guys. Sorry I can't fulfil the whole job. Cheers.

While perhaps not the most ideal candidate, as I don't really know the system very well at all, I am on Jolt every day, with few exceptions. If no one more experienced at this steps up, then I could fufill the role.

Maybe Hussein could take over the UR instead of Basra. Or maybe he sets up a counter-UR, seeing how the UR is all peaceful, democratic, all that pink-commie hippie stuff, and then this Pan-Arab state he tries to make is a militarstic dictatorship.

Or, he could go the Milosevic route. He could establish the Ba'ath Party as a Fascist-type party espousing Lebensraum and the superiority of Sunni Muslims (with a heavy dose of anti-West racism), take over one of the states in RL Iraq, and try and launch a bloody war using subterfuge and sheer violence to make first a Greater Iraq then what TLS said-a pan-Arabic totalitarian dictatorship.

This isn't much of a stretch-Ba'ath did espouse radical militarist and pan-Arabic ideals IIRC.

unless of course hussein died in the 3rd world war. There was a lot of fighting in pretty much everything the MEU held at the time

unless of course hussein died in the 3rd world war. There was a lot of fighting in pretty much everything the MEU held at the time

Let's say he didn't die, shall we? :)

Maybe Hussein could take over the UR instead of Basra. Or maybe he sets up a counter-UR, seeing how the UR is all peaceful, democratic, all that pink-commie hippie stuff, and then this Pan-Arab state he tries to make is a militarstic dictatorship.

Peaceful? Hippie? 3 (going on 4) wars in the past 10 years. (WW3, Arab-Palestinian War, Saudi War, and soon the Second Saudi War) plus the PLO is blasting the crap out Palestine right now.

And who says there can only be one Pan-Arab state? The UR could be the democratic, socialist, African Arab state and Hussein's could be the tyrannical, capitalist, Middle Eastern Arab state.

On October 5th from a newly built facility in northern Finland the first Scandic rocket was launched carrying one passenger. The sub-orbital mission went off without a problem, and a second one followed a week later and was just as succesfull.

While the Scandic Union kicked off its space program, out to sea the newly commissioned Carl Gustaf, the Scandic Unions first ballistic missile sub went on a test cruise in the North Sea. When they reached Bear Island the Gustaf launched a nuclear tipped SLBM that traveled across the North Sea before harmlessly detonating above the waves.

US Navy SSNs begin operating in the North Sea and Barents Sea (ooc, like in Hunt for Red October, shadowing Scandic boomers and SSNs, but not engaging and remaining a reasonable distance)

Koryan, could you please get on the Hamburg Chatzy?

Elephantum, if you get this soon, please join us.

Russia supports Syria's call for UN peace keepers and a withdrawel of foreign troops. To this end, Russia offers the services of its troops to the UN to be used as neutral peace keepers in the region as Russia has yet to involve itself in the region increasing the chances that the UN force will be seen as the neutral body it is.

the US is willing to assist the Russians, and points out that it has a fleet and a battalion of marines on the scene to provide immediate assistance

Pfft, he can still be genocidal. Think Lebensraum, but for the Sunni's. He can invade Basra and Kurdistan to enlarge his empire. All he needs to do is get rid of the undesirables :p

Kurdistan would kick his ass... its five times his size in population and has oil too

Kurdistan would kick his ass... its five times his size in population and has oil too

Ahahahah! That would be fun to see :p

US has a Security Council Resolution on the table (see UN thread)

The Arab Provisionary Republic calls for elections to be held to establish a united Council to create a new Arab Government. Invites are also sent to Western Arabia, Aden, Jordan, Baghdad and Oman to send representatives. Calls are also made to invite the Saudi Royal Family.

While Germany supports this new council, no German representatives are sent and no advisers are sent. German funds, however, are appropriated to pay for residency and food for the representatives.

Meanwhile, German Oil Companies approach the Provisionary Council on purchasing rights to oil fields.

OOC: How many oil points are currently in Arabia and how many are taken and by whom?

Parthini']The Arab Provisionary Republic calls for elections to be held to establish a united Council to create a new Arab Government. Invites are also sent to Western Arabia, Aden, Jordan, Baghdad and Oman to send representatives. Calls are also made to invite the Saudi Royal Family.

While Germany supports this new council, no German representatives are sent and no advisers are sent. German funds, however, are appropriated to pay for residency and food for the representatives.

Meanwhile, German Oil Companies approach the Provisionary Council on purchasing rights to oil fields.

OOC: How many oil points are currently in Arabia and how many are taken and by whom?

not sure what the economic post says, but it should be 15 (and will increase to 25 by 1960, and has a potential of 35) ... its potential would be known at this point.

I'll hold off any further updates on the Arabian wars until:

a) I have time to sort them out
b) Someone volunteers as a conflict moderator

and in any case we'd have to wait until after the UN did some talking to see what happens there.

Thanks guys.


Elephantum wants to be conflict moderator, are there any opinions on this?

Updated and added links as I promised last weekend.

I'll hold off any further updates on the Arabian wars until:

a) I have time to sort them out
b) Someone volunteers as a conflict moderator

and in any case we'd have to wait until after the UN did some talking to see what happens there.

Thanks guys.


Elephantum wants to be conflict moderator, are there any opinions on this?
I'd actually rather see someone more experienced here (Malkyer, Artista, or Ato-Sara) take up the role, but if they don't want to I will.

define conflict moderator exactly

Conflict Moderator would just be someone who took over the role of determining the results of wars. This would ideally be by the tried and tested map and counter system that we use now, though I suppose some sort of program could be utilised for it. Whoever we decide to give the position to, i'd TG or email them the rules that I have saved on my harddrive and they could use them to play out wars and such.

It's just to ease my workload so that I can get some revision in before my exams. It'd mean that my role is reduced to just resolving military disputes alongside yourself and maintaining the military thread, as well as keeping track of everybody's current military deployments.

Conflict Moderator would just be someone who took over the role of determining the results of wars. This would ideally be by the tried and tested map and counter system that we use now, though I suppose some sort of program could be utilised for it. Whoever we decide to give the position to, i'd TG or email them the rules that I have saved on my harddrive and they could use them to play out wars and such.

It's just to ease my workload so that I can get some revision in before my exams. It'd mean that my role is reduced to just resolving military disputes alongside yourself and maintaining the military thread, as well as keeping track of everybody's current military deployments.

I can handle high intensity and nuclear wars, you can back up and handle low intensity wars. How about that?