NationStates Jolt Archive

This is a closed roleplay based off the premise of roleplaying real life nations in the 20th century and steer them down different paths and engage in alternate scenarios, leading to a radically different 20th century history. If you are interested or curious, you may apply to join.

4 Basic E20 Rules:

1. Players need to have a reasonable amount of RP experience
2. Solid understanding of 20th Century World History
3 Understand that this is an alternate history, and significant events have occured in this timeline that have altered the course of history.
4. Understand that this is a refereed RP, and that the principal referees have the ability and role of insuring that accuracy, realism and plausablity is maintained.


Wars and economics are very important in this RP, just as they were in the actual history of the 20th Century. Special threads to handle both of those things are critical to this RP, and those rules are enforced.

Current Game year as of Monday August 7, 2006 is 1970

Use historical aircraft, tanks, ships etc please. You can call them whatever you wish (the China Aviation Company Kirin bomber for example, could use the information for the Tu-4 that existed in real life)

Just post links to any aircraft, tank or ship class you rename so I know what it actually can do.

Stay within timeline though. At tech level 7 the F100 transonic jet fighter shows up before the F104 Interceptor which is in turn succeeded by the F4 Phantom and then the F15 Eagle.

Each RL week represents one E20 game year, divided into "Turns" as follows.

Monday -- bookkeeping and general announcements
Tuesday - January / February
Wednesday - March / April
Thursday - May / June
Friday - July / August
Saturday - September / October
Sunday - November / December

Brief Summary of Recent E20 Activity:

The game year was beginning on Monday, 2/6/06 the year 1945. The world had just fought the Third Great War, lasting from 1938 - 1942, and 125 million died. The Socialist/Communist Pact consisting of Japan, France, Czechslovakia, Ottoman Empire (called the Middle Eastern Union), Rumania, Hungary, and the Soviet Union (consisting of Germany, Austria, Poland, and the former Soviet Union of our history) has fought the United Nations powers including the US, British Commonwealth of Nations, Spain, Italy, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, India, China, USAE (Indochina), Greater Colombia, Argentina and practically every other nation on the planet except fo Switzerland and Paraguay.

This war involved the use of atomic, biological and chemical weapons, and the final days UN forces overran the final Communist strongholds in Siberia in the fall of 1942, with the war ending on September 15, and the final surrender on September 30.

Player Countries as of January 1962

North America

North America -- Various NPC's
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=493633

USA -- NPC (for the moment)
Old Thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=432822
New Thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=481348

New England -- Hallad
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=492909

Canada -- Lachenburg
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=486765

Latin America

Gran Colombia -- Artista (merged with FNS)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=429731

FNS (Argentina, Bolivia, Peru, Chile, Uruguay) -- Artista (merged with Gran Colombia)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=459898

Mexico -- Whittlesfield
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=489440

Brazil -- Champren
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10544462#post10544462

Europe

Germany - Parthini (Germany and Austria)
Old Thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=467494
New Thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11042212

Great Britian -- Lesser Ribenia
Old Thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=431379
New Thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=482051

Scandic Union (Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Estonia) -- Safehaven2
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=467777

Ireland -- Galveston Bay


Poland -- Danard
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10385610#post10385610

Rumania -- Rodenka
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11288976#post11288976

Ukraine -- Greill
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=482131

Italy -- NPC
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=468472

France -- Abbassia
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=467850

Russia -- Elephantum
New Thread:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=484814
Old Thread:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10645288#post10645288

Bulgaria -- Kirstiriera
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=434337

Spain - Philanchez
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=467433

Portugal -- NPC
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10427372

Africa and Mideast

Egypt -- Koryan
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10621290#post10621290

Syria -- NPC
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=467582

South Africa- Malkyer (assistant referee)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=467609

Nigeria - Kilani
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10650398#post10650398

Asia

China - Sharina (Admin of E20)
New Thread:
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=495090
Old Thread:
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=485921
Oldest Thread:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=432834

India -- Amestria
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=493438

(Old India threads for reference)
Thread 1: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=475880
Thread 2: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=467293

United Islamic Republics - Haneastic
New Thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11425647#post11425647
Old Thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=475845

USAE - Ato-Sara
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=454920

Korea - New Dornalia
Old thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=428713
New thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10669111#post10669111

Japan -- Haneastic
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10872470#post10872470

Philippines -- Sukiaida
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11064952#post11064952

Oceania

Australia - Cylea
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=467376

NPC nations (independent)(all NPC nations have joined the United Nations)

Congo
Palestine
Saudi Arabia
Western Arabia
Kurdistan
Basra
Oman
Ethiopia
Paraguay
Costa Rica
Haiti
Dominican Republic
Cuba
Switzerland
Belgium
Netherlands
Burgundy
Andorra
San Marino
Liechtenstein
Hungary
Czechslovakia
Yugoslavia
Greece
Turkey
Armenia and Georgia
Azerbajan
Bhutan
Nepal
Togo
The Gambia
Ghana
Senegal

More nations may be added through revolutions, civil wars, or dissolution of state unions. Other nations may disappear through mergers or conquests, therefore the nation list will be constantly evolving. Check back periodically to check if there might be a new nation that may interest you.

Major Threads of Importance:

ALLIANCE THREADS:

Asian Treaty Organization:
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=494998

Arab League:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=475909

British Commonwealth Thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=468464

Oceanic Alliance
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=481086

Seoul Treaty thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=463059

E20 United Nations
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=467909

Central Security and Prosperity Sphere (CSPS)
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=482568

EEC/ESA Thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=479899

GAME MECHANICS:

New Economic Thread Version 4.0
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=492789

Economic Thread Version 3.0
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10559619#post10559619

Old Economic Thread (for reference purposes)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=454115

Military Thread (version 4.0)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=485306

Old Military Threads (for reference purposes)

Version 3.0

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472652

Early Version

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=427277

Space Exploration Thread

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11058871

NPC Thread (for important things involving the NPC nations)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472468

Old NPC Thread (for reference)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=460771

New Foreign Claims Thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10633710#post10633710

Old Foreign Claims Thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=428273

International Olympic Committee Thread (which will do nicely for Worlds Fairs, World Cups etc)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=471152

IMPORTANT EVENTS THREADS IN E20:

Cape Town Conference
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10927381&postcount=1

Seoul-Saigon Rally
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=485664

E20 CONFLICT THREADS:

Aegan War:
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=489730

Twilight War:
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=489659

Arabian Conflict:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11157037

Siberian Crisis:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11087286#post11087286

Rwandan Crisis:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11064819#post11064819

FAS Civil War Thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10569329

Collapse of the Chinese Empire and 2nd Sino-Japanese War
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=457589

Spanish Civil War
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=446849
(first use of chemical weapons, and led directly to 2nd Great War)

Brazilian Civil War
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=446584
(first major guerilla war)

ARCHIVE THREADS:

Original E20 main thread (somewhat of a mess, but this is how it all started)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=424002

The First Great War
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=438703

2nd Great War
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=448361

Third Great War (also called World War III, and the Eurasian War)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=463543

USEFUL LINKS:

Custom names for your national leaders, heroes, or significant people
http://www.behindthename.com/random/

Miscellanous Information:

Advancements to Tech Level 7.5 and 8 (subject to change)

1. Level 3+ social spending for at least 10 years
2. Has reached 75% of maximum economic productivity for at least 5 years
3. Has placed a man in orbit either by itself or in conjuction with 2 other nations.
4. Has the ability to build nuclear power plants.
5. Has an airline and tourist industry.
6. Spent 5 point a year for 5 years on building an electronics industry

Tech Level 7.5 = requires any 3 conditions PLUS condition #6 to be met.
Tech Level 8 = requires all 6 conditions to be met.

IMPORTANT NOTE:

The world has recovered from the Global Oil Depression, therefore economies and growth should return to normal.

Chronology of events of the 20th Century (E20)

(to be added)

Not to be a pain but Austria and Liechtenstein are part of Germany.

Everything else is good tho.

:p .......here we go again!!

on a serious note, eventually the other main threads will have to be updated and we will need to probably post links to those but keep the links to the old ones in the archive in case we need to go back to them for reference.

Parthini']Not to be a pain but Austria and Liechtenstein are part of Germany.

Everything else is good tho.

Leichtenstein isn't

Parthini']Not to be a pain but Austria and Liechtenstein are part of Germany.

Everything else is good tho.

Fixed.

Yey, found the thread. I got major computer problems which have been solved last week. Can I join as Japan? And why did you need to restart? Have any other things happened?

Shweeeet.

Also; when are we going to un-freeze time? Monday?

Monday sounds good for un-freezing time; it will give everyone a chance to get reorganized.

I was just wondering why you need a Nigeria?

Warta Endor, Japan has been taken by Haneastic.

However, there's plenty of countries available- I'd love to have you here in this RP as well.

The reason for the revised thread is that Galveston Bay will not be able to particiapate as much as he used to, consquently, I had to create a new main thread where I can edit the main E20 links, rules, info, etc. as I'm always on and I'm a huge proponent of E20. I made a promise the instant I joined E20 almost a year ago that I will stick with it until the very end.

So you can see, I'll be around regardless- and I can be pretty active updating E20 and such, because I have constant access to the web everyday, with web design being my job. I tend to check E20 stuff for new posts and such every hour or so everyday, so you can imagine any new content will be added or edited pretty quickly.

A few things.

First, is GB still going to be the USA- at least play as it on the weekends? Or should we now treat the USA as a NPC / "player needed" status?

Second, I need to know of any other active situations ongoing in E20 besides the whole SU / Germany / Middle-East conflict.

If there's not much going on (other than the Middle East thing), then perhaps we can still go to 1950 on Monday or maybe extend 1949 until Tuesday or something. Then catch up to 1951 by the Monday after next? Just putting forth this idea, as most, if not all the RP'ers and players involved in the Middle East situation are still here and around to play it out.

Third... from the discussions we've had on Chatzy, here's a rough first sketch of who will be mods and their duties...

NPC Mod = Parthini
NPC Economic Builds = Parthini and Safehaven
Economic Mod = Malkyer
War Mod = Lesser Ribenia (If he is willing)
Technology Mod = Artista
Realism Mod = Safehaven

Sharina (me) responibilities = History of E20, Recruitement, Mentor (teach new players), and "President".

Cylea = assistant to Sharina

Ato-Sara offered his assistance, but in what capacity? Economic?
New Dornalia also offered his assistance, but with what duties?

Am I forgetting anyone else?

Could you please move the links marked in dark red to their relevent places (Player countries)? please note that you have to amend the portugese thread link.

Fixed. Thanks for your input, Abbassia.

New Dornalia also offered his assistance, but with what duties?

Time permitting, I can help Malkyer with people's builds. I have an understanding of the system as it stands now.

Time permitting, I can help Malkyer with people's builds. I have an understanding of the system as it stands now.

Assistant Economic Mod, then?

Leichtenstein isn't

What??

:mad:

Oh well... does it get any points?

Assistant Economic Mod, then?

Cool. I'll take it. Again, time is a factor, but I should be able to handle most things thrown at me.

NPC Mod = Parthini
NPC Economic Builds = Parthini and Safehaven
Economic Mod = Malkyer
War Mod = Lesser Ribenia (If he is willing)
Technology Mod = Artista
Realism Mod = Safehaven

Yep, i'm OK for military mod. I'll work out a system based on GB's old one (will use same combat and cost/maintenence values, similar maps etc.) and post a new military thread when i'm done. It'll take me around 2-3 days to sort it all out I guess, otherwise I think we're good to go.

Yep, i'm OK for military mod. I'll work out a system based on GB's old one (will use same combat and cost/maintenence values, similar maps etc.) and post a new military thread when i'm done. It'll take me around 2-3 days to sort it all out I guess, otherwise I think we're good to go.

Perfect! Glad you're still here, LR. =)

What??



Oh well... does it get any points?

Mmm, Liechtenstein had in 1949 around 13 million people, considering that its a pretty prosperous place at this time (tax haven, pretty industrialised, many holding companies) especially when compared with some other parts of the war ravaged world. I'd be inclined to give it around 6-8 peacetime points (3 or 4 industrial centres) but a better idea would be had from the economy mods.

Mmm, Liechtenstein had in 1949 around 13 million people, considering that its a pretty prosperous place at this time (tax haven, pretty industrialised, many holding companies) especially when compared with some other parts of the war ravaged world. I'd be inclined to give it around 6-8 peacetime points (3 or 4 industrial centres) but a better idea would be had from the economy mods.

i am one very very confused assistant historical mod right now...am i thinking of the same Liechtenstein that is smaller than Washington DC?

Yeah... in 2005, Liechtenstein had 33,000 people... Maybe one point from a Air Terminal to account for tourism, which it can use to pay for the best Welfare in the world.

Oh, and here's the new NPC thread, not finished.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472468

i am one very very confused assistant historical mod right now...am i thinking of the same Liechtenstein that is smaller than Washington DC?

Sorry for that embarassing lapse of concentration there!

I misread my source, it should of course be 13,000 people in 1949-50. Which is not even represented by one production centre. Perhaps best to grant it a few trade points and leave it as that.

That's what you get for typing things just before dinner!

I'll slink off back to redeveloping the warfare system now then...

Parthini']Oh, and here's the new NPC thread, not finished.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472468

Added.

Right good news chaps. I've been able to download a computerised version of the boardgame GB was using for warfare. Whilst I will not be using the World in Flames rules as he did (too complicated for my tastes) I will develop a simpler, easier to understand and quicker version which may not quite be as ultra-realistic as GBs but should still maintain a lot of realism. I will use the same maps so that we can all understand what's going on.

Right good news chaps. I've been able to download a computerised version of the boardgame GB was using for warfare. Whilst I will not be using the World in Flames rules as he did (too complicated for my tastes) I will develop a simpler, easier to understand and quicker version which may not quite be as ultra-realistic as GBs but should still maintain a lot of realism. I will use the same maps so that we can all understand what's going on.

Most excellent. Where did you find that download?

The IOC thread may have a bit of a problem (error message - thread must have disappeared)... As of this point the 1950 World Cup would be held in Germany.
The Olympic Bidding for 1956 is still active and you could still nominate until the Spring of 1950.
The Next World's Fair will be in London for 1953.

I'm going to post a new Economic thread, so that I can edit the rules, etc. I'll have a link here tonight or tomorrow.

It'll probably have the same format as the current one, though I may leave the NPC economies to Parth so that he can update them. Any other suggestions?

A few things.

First, is GB still going to be the USA- at least play as it on the weekends? Or should we now treat the USA as a NPC / "player needed" status?

Second, I need to know of any other active situations ongoing in E20 besides the whole SU / Germany / Middle-East conflict.

If there's not much going on (other than the Middle East thing), then perhaps we can still go to 1950 on Monday or maybe extend 1949 until Tuesday or something. Then catch up to 1951 by the Monday after next? Just putting forth this idea, as most, if not all the RP'ers and players involved in the Middle East situation are still here and around to play it out.


GB told me that he would do America's builds, so its still an NPC< and I believe it should remain so as I'm doubtfull anyone will come along with enough knowledge to play it. I think we should start up 1950 on Monday, there really isn't much going on except the deal with me and Germany and thats mostly resolved now that Germany stopped his nuke program.

I can do the economies and I will just take the economies that GB posted on the economy thread and update them.

Also, do you guys want me to just RP the US as being isolationist and only intervene in the Western Hemisphere?

Also, I won't be able to do much work on the NPC stuff tonight but I'll work on it some more tommorow and the next day so it should be totally finished by Sunday night.

I wanted to ask Safehaven2 how I'm doing in 21c and also if I'm accepted I will play as Nigeria.

Im not sure whether this would be an NPC thing, but I think it would be cool to bring the Pope into world affairs. Since, in this system, the Vatican can't really function the same wat other nations do (economically mostly, but the Swiss Guard would have trouble taking over Lichtenstien, especially if it had 13 million people.

Would it be possible for me (or someone else, but I've sort of worked this idea through in my head) to take over as the Pope in a demi-NPC role? It would be run almost exactly like an NPC, but separately. If possible, Pope Pius XII would have a conveniently timed heart attack a few days after time restarts, to enable a new conclave. Seeing whether the Papacy goes left (women in the priesthood in the not far future perhaps?) or the right (excommunication as a WMD anyone?)

If we did that we should also do the Patriarch especially since the Greeks run Constantinople now.

Seeing the Pope and Patriarch both become important in the world scene would be interesting. Perhaps it's just because there aren't many Orthodox Christians in the US, but I never hear the Patriarch mentioned in mainstream press. However, for our purposes, he could be run much the same way (they'd both mainly be trying to get their policy enacted in various countries. Also, depending on how things go, they could end up feuding.

Does anyone know how the Patriarch is selected? The Papal Conclave provides a great opportunity for input on the future of the Pope. It'd be great if it was something along those lines.

The Patriarch is kinda chosen the same way as the Pope and the reason you don't hear about him is because in RL he is pretty much captive to the Turks. He would have a lot of the same control as the Pope but in Russia, Greece, Bulgaria and other parts of the Balkans.

GB told me that he would do America's builds, so its still an NPC< and I believe it should remain so as I'm doubtfull anyone will come along with enough knowledge to play it. I think we should start up 1950 on Monday, there really isn't much going on except the deal with me and Germany and thats mostly resolved now that Germany stopped his nuke program.

I remember hearing somewhere that someone said that GB was going to be "Nuclear Mod" that deals with nuclear weapons, research, radiation, fallout, etc. Is this true?

We will start 1950 at Monday as it seems like everybody has no problem with that.

New Economic Thread is here:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10559619&postcount=1

tag

Gotta say, you guys did a nice job.

However, the forces of Communism WILL rise again. Just you watch. This is only a temporary setback. *nefarious laughter*

No seriously, looks good. Except for WW3. But I won't get into that.

New Economic Thread is here:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10559619&postcount=1

Added to the list and archived the old economic thread.

Tag

Most excellent. Where did you find that download?

Link (http://cyberboard.brainiac.com/download.html)for cyberboard program (online board game set up thingy)

Link (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/1499) for World in Flames board module (scroll down to downloads, then save WiFFE.zip to Hard Drive, there is also an older 5th edition on there, make sure you don't confuse them)


Once you have unzipped both files, run cyberboard and open WiF from the menu and run one of teh default scenarios. The "Mother of All Scenarios" option will give you access to all the maps (Europe, Asia, Pacific, Africa and the Americas) particularly useful as the Africa map isn't available anywhere else.

You should be able to then access the maps and even play the game if you like using any of the counters available on there. Though some of the counters are pretty strange and seem to just add complexity to the game.

The New Military Thread can be found here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472652)

I am just about finished with the new warfare simulation system and we should be up and running by Monday (1950).

Since I've added new rules about economic agreements to the Economy thread, can I get any such current or proposed pacts to be posted in the Economic Thread, as a reference?

Since I've added new rules about economic agreements to the Economy thread, can I get any such current or proposed pacts to be posted in the Economic Thread, as a reference?

There are two such economic pacts ongoing.

The European one proposed by France and the SCT treaty (both military and economic support).

The New Military Thread can be found here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472652)

I am just about finished with the new warfare simulation system and we should be up and running by Monday (1950).

Added.

There are two such economic pacts ongoing.

The European one proposed by France and the SCT treaty (both military and economic support).

technically the LTA and Pan American treaty both are trade agreements providing low or no trade barriers between member nations

I knew the Pan-American was something to that sort but I thought the LTA was just an Anti Communist pact...

In that case, wouldn't the Commonwealth be the same?

technically the LTA and Pan American treaty both are trade agreements providing low or no trade barriers between member nations

(smacks head)

I forgot about the Pan American treaty. So there's three actual major economic powers...

1. SCT
2. Pan American
3. European Trade Union (or the EU)

The LTA kind of morphed into the UN, sort of.

The British Commonwealth provides the following benefits to members:

Commonwealth Constitution selected paragraphs:

I All Commonwealth nations are to be sovereign and independent states, free to pursue their own foreign and domestic policy.

II Commonwealth nations are to charge minimal trade tariffs on goods moving between Commonwealth nations.

III Commonwealth nations to assist each other in terms of supplies for war purposes or other provisions when requested but are under no obligations to declare war upon each others enemies.

VI Citizens from Commonwealth nations may vote in any British election whilst resident in that country, this may be reciprocated by foreign governments in that they may allow British citizens to vote in their elections but this is not a requirement.

VII The Commonwealth Scholarship and Fellowship Initiative be established to promote the taking up of scholarships for Commonwealth citizens to other Commonwealth nation universities as well as the sharing of research and scientific assistance.

VIII Commonwealth citizens to be afforded the right of abode into the UK and this is to be reciprocated amongst other Commonwealth nations.

IX Commonwealth nations to maintain a democratic system of government as judged by other members

I have a thread for the FAS Civil War here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10569329), so anything related to said war should be posted there.

Also, I am wondering how this is going to work. Is it going to work like the MEU Civil War did (Where Clan controlled the rebels and acting out the fighting, while Ottoman gave commands to the government forces), is it going to work like WWIII did (where GD did everything), or is it going to work like a minor internal skirmish (with me commanding everything)?

If it's case #1 (where LR will control rebels and fighting and me giving orders to FAS troosp), will LR control the Communists und the Islamists, or will one person control the Communists and someone else the Islamists?

I think we should be able to work this out on a small scale with players giving the orders. If you want to control the FAS, I can sort out the Communists and the Islamist orders, though I would appreciate it if someone else stepped in and took one of the above factions.

Though this could all change if the war escalates (which I hope to God it won't, as I want to test out the new system in a small war).

Basically, i'm looking for a third party to take the communists or islamists, whilst I take the other. All orders will be TGed to me and i'll resolve the warfare for you. Then post losses and results, before the next orders come.

International Olympic Committee Thread (which will do nicely for Worlds Fairs, World Cups etc)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread....50post10510650

Just thought you might like to know that the above link is not functioning. There's a chunk of the address missing from it. Sorry, I don't know what the actual link should be though.

I just wanted to ask Safehaven2 how I'm doing in the other rp.

Can I take a faction in the civil war?

I would like to try the communists

I just wanted to ask Safehaven2 how I'm doing in the other rp.

Overall, better, but what killed you is that while your geting better you still pulled that whole stunt with claiming to find oil off of Lithuania, which isn't realistic at all.

In other news, my computer went down...again, so my internet access will be sketchy for a little bit.

To bad I can't be Japan. Can I play a side (I prefer the Communist, if Abbassia doesn't mind) in the FAS civil war, it could be fun!

Can I take a faction in the civil war?

I would like to try the communists

Sure, just let TLS know and give me a quick TG with your general strategy and we'll be sorted.

To bad I can't be Japan. Can I play a side (I prefer the Communist, if Abbassia doesn't mind) in the FAS civil war, it could be fun!

You can do, but Abassia has first choice of sides, as he asked first. Besides the Islamists are better equipped at this moment and look set for some early military victories over isolated FAS outposts.

You can do, but Abassia has first choice of sides, as he asked first. Besides the Islamists are better equipped at this moment and look set for some early military victories over isolated FAS outposts.

Ok, that's allright with me.

So WE are you going to be the Islamists?

OMFG MERGE

Several days ago, the leaders of Colombia, Panama, St. Martinique, Venezuela, Guyana, Suriname, French Guyana, Guadalope, and Ecuador have agreed unamiously to merge with the FNS, to create a massive economic bloc in South America. All nations will recieve the same amount of education and social welfare as Gran Colombia, while trade will be mingled, doubling the income. New factories are already being built in Ecuador, Panama, Peru, Paraguay, and Uruguay, with expansions planned in Argentina and Colombia. Also, a new pan-america railway system is being built to improve both defense, transportation, and trade.

Airports will not be disturbed as they are all very new. The FNS military has been disbanded for the time being, to be reorganized.

This is the corrected link to the IOC thread:http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=471152.

The 1954 World Cup, 1956 Winter and Summer Olympics are up for bidding at the moment. Send your candidate notices to the IOC thread for any of those events. The Next World's Fair after London in 1953 would possibly be for Rome in 1957...

So WE are you going to be the Islamists?
Yep! I'm searching for some background info now. But I still have some questions;

1. As I understand it, the Islamists control Iran, the area around the Caspian Sea and some territories in Afghanistan and modern-day Pakistan?
2. I assume I have to post my economical and military builds, just like a "real" nation?

EDIT: If I have to post my military and economical builds, what is my tech level? And the cities mentioned by the Lighting Star are all production centres?

Yep! I'm searching for some background info now. But I still have some questions;

Good choice as the communists are about to be hit by a whole lot of hurt from the South East Asian direction:p .

Good choice as the communists are about to be hit by a whole lot of hurt from the South East Asian direction:p .

Hehehehe, I read it! It seems like the Islamists are pretty safe for now. But I can imagine what will happen once the commies are in kingdom come...

1. As I understand it, the Islamists control Iran, the area around the Caspian Sea and some territories in Afghanistan and modern-day Pakistan?

Yep, they own control all of Afghanistan and there's only one FAS city left in Pakistan at the moment. The Islamists may even be set for a push into India proper soon.

2. I assume I have to post my economical and military builds, just like a "real" nation?

TLS posted a 1950 builds for the Commies and the Muslims at the start of he year to make my job easier. So i'm going by that for the time being. You can post builds for next year though, you'll almost certainly still be around then.

Ok, thanks for answering my questions, but I gotta go now.

United Islamic Republic:
Spending Type: Market Economy Peacetime, Growth 3% (wartime doesn't take affect until 1951): 4 Commerce(4 merchant marine) + 10 Production(total production centers:5) + 3 oil + 0 tourism(Civil War, no tourists would be THAT stupid) = 17 points

Population = 24 million (rough estimate, took Iran and Afghanistans populations from 1950)

Maintenance:
x3 Mechanized 1.5
x2 Mujahideen (AKA Light Infantry) .5
x2 Garrison .5
Total Spent: 2.5

Total Remaining: 14.5 points

Social Services:
Level 2 Social Services for everyone (5 points)

Total Spent: 7.5

Total Remaining: 9.5 points

Training:
x1 armored 5 points
x4 mujahideen divisions 4 points

Total Spent: 16.5

Total Remaining: .5

Aid to other nations:
Saudi Arabia .5 points

Total Spent: 17

Total Remaining: 0

Islamist builds for 1950 for WE.

The builds will pan out as follows:

Turn 4
2 mujahideen divisions

Turn 5
2 mujahideen divisions

Turn 6
armored division

Armoured division takes longer as it requires more equipment

And Communist builds:

Turn 4
2 mechanised divisions

Turn 5
1 mechanised division

Turn 6
1 mechanised division

2 mechanised divisions arrive in Turn 4 due to increased training pace from urgency of being attacked by Britain, FAS and USEA on home soil.

The SU has just detonated a 400Kt bomb on Howard(I think) island in the Pacific.

OOC: GB said he'd let me use one of his Pacific islands but since this was over a week ago I'm not sure if it was Howard or something similar to it.

Yep! I'm searching for some background info now. But I still have some questions;

1. As I understand it, the Islamists control Iran, the area around the Caspian Sea and some territories in Afghanistan and modern-day Pakistan?
2. I assume I have to post my economical and military builds, just like a "real" nation?

EDIT: If I have to post my military and economical builds, what is my tech level? And the cities mentioned by the Lighting Star are all production centres?

You're probably tech level 7, since the FAS was going to hit Tech Level 7 in 1950.

The Islamists control what is modern day Iran, Afghanistan, and the part of Pakistan that is the NWFP province and Waziristan in RL.

OMFG MERGE

Several days ago, the leaders of Colombia, Panama, St. Martinique, Venezuela, Guyana, Suriname, French Guyana, Guadalope, and Ecuador have agreed unamiously to merge with the FNS, to create a massive economic bloc in South America. All nations will recieve the same amount of education and social welfare as Gran Colombia, while trade will be mingled, doubling the income. New factories are already being built in Ecuador, Panama, Peru, Paraguay, and Uruguay, with expansions planned in Argentina and Colombia. Also, a new pan-america railway system is being built to improve both defense, transportation, and trade.

Airports will not be disturbed as they are all very new. The FNS military has been disbanded for the time being, to be reorganized.


Now wait one moment here. What kind of merger are we talking about? Only economic? If so, how are you exerting so much controll over the FNS, like completly disbanding its army? Greater Columbia (in my opinion understand) is to stable for Latin america of the period and its current size is streching past realistic. Disbanding another contries army could be considered Godmoding.

OMFG MERGE

Several days ago, the leaders of Colombia, Panama, St. Martinique, Venezuela, Guyana, Suriname, French Guyana, Guadalope, and Ecuador have agreed unamiously to merge with the FNS, to create a massive economic bloc in South America. All nations will recieve the same amount of education and social welfare as Gran Colombia, while trade will be mingled, doubling the income. New factories are already being built in Ecuador, Panama, Peru, Paraguay, and Uruguay, with expansions planned in Argentina and Colombia. Also, a new pan-america railway system is being built to improve both defense, transportation, and trade.

Airports will not be disturbed as they are all very new. The FNS military has been disbanded for the time being, to be reorganized.


I assume this has been cleared with Parth?

With me?!?

Jeez...

Artitsa said Middle Snu told him to do that so I don't know.

Parthini']With me?!?

Jeez...

Artitsa said Middle Snu told him to do that so I don't know.

Get on chatzy if you can.

I assume this has been cleared with Parth?

he did own all of those already, or had UN Mandate over them, so its probably a reasonable move

I may need a few days off for personal reasons, my home internet connection is being batty and I am visiting my grandparents for the next week... The IOC Thread may need a capable hand for the next week. I may come in and write as well during the week ahead...

Fixed the year and put up the correct link to the IOC Olympics thread.

After looking over my schedule, I will have time to resume playing the US, but I will not have time to referee / moderate still.

Is chatzy still alive? What is the link?

After looking over my schedule, I will have time to resume playing the US, but I will not have time to referee / moderate still.

Great! I was afraid of an E20 without any US/CIA covert operations.

Is chatzy still alive? What is the link?

http://www.chatzy.com/684093003041

After looking over my schedule, I will have time to resume playing the US, but I will not have time to referee / moderate still.

Fixed to reflect GB's resuming play of USA.

South Africa's J.C. Smuts has died:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10597834&postcount=24

OOC: Egypt and Syria, if you have the time can you check the Hamburg Chatzy?

Brazil is added to the list- the player name and the Brazil news thread.

Minister of War, Pereira da Costa leads a Military Coup

Yesterday, the Brazilian Military stormed the "Presidents" home, and many other congressmen's residence. This act was called "The Storming of the House" in many papers and this was a well deserved title due to the fact that it was said to last only 10 minutes. The only resistance were the uninformed gaurds of the house and some personal body gaurds. The gaurds, who were soldiers in the army, joined with their allies right as they saw what was happening. The men captured the president and are holding him in a base near Sao Paulo. The mastermind of this attack was said to the be Minister of War, Pereira da Costa. The fact that almost every single Brazilian soldier was in favor of the coup shows the enormous support that the general has. Moreover, the Brazilian people are partying in the streets because the former dictator is now out of office. Many radio stations featured people talking about the idea of makeing General Pereira da Costa their next president. When word got to the general about this he decided to hold a nation wide radio broadcast to talk to the Brazilian people.

"Children of Brazil, I come before you today to explain the reasons behind overthrow of the government. Yes, the Brazilian army did indeed attack the presidents home and those of many other government officials. However, this would not have been necessary if the "president" had been a truthful and just man. Getulio Vargas was in no way a just man. He was embezzling money not just from the military, but in turn the brazilian people. I have heard the rumors about my fellow brazilians whishing me to become the next president, but let me tell you this. I imedeeatly plan on giving back the power to the people once this issue is resolved. I have no intentions to keep this power. There have been many past military coups that ended up being a military dictatorship. However, I promise you that this is not going to be one of that sort. I thank you for your support and may other nations see this as a fall of a dictator, not the rise of one."

i know its a while into it but can i join as cuba?

A nice little thread which I thought would be helpful when writing E20 history:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=445466

useful source on space exploration

http://www.solarviews.com/eng/history.htm
http://www.solarviews.com/eng/craft1.htm

My suggestion... that missions do not automatically succeed. First attempts should have about a 50% chance of success (to reach space), manned missions about an 85% chance (with failure being death of the crew)

This should improve by 5% each year for manned missions, and 10% each year for unmanned missions, but no matter what, a 5% chance of failure for manned missions and 10% chance of failure for unmanned missions being the standard once the 90% threshhold (for unmanned) and 95% threshhold (for manned) missions is reached.

The Lesser Ribenia should make the determination, with Malkyer as backup (for any British or joint British / German missions)

My suggestion... that missions do not automatically succeed. First attempts should have about a 50% chance of success (to reach space), manned missions about an 85% chance (with failure being death of the crew)

This should improve by 5% each year for manned missions, and 10% each year for unmanned missions, but no matter what, a 5% chance of failure for manned missions and 10% chance of failure for unmanned missions being the standard once the 90% threshhold (for unmanned) and 95% threshhold (for manned) missions is reached.

The Lesser Ribenia should make the determination, with Malkyer as backup (for any British or joint British / German missions)

Thats fine with me. I'll start implementing it with the first missions to space. In the ESA series this will occur next year, i've been rolling before for errors anyway, but nothing serious came up.

useful source on space exploration

http://www.solarviews.com/eng/history.htm
http://www.solarviews.com/eng/craft1.htm

My suggestion... that missions do not automatically succeed. First attempts should have about a 50% chance of success (to reach space), manned missions about an 85% chance (with failure being death of the crew)

This should improve by 5% each year for manned missions, and 10% each year for unmanned missions, but no matter what, a 5% chance of failure for manned missions and 10% chance of failure for unmanned missions being the standard once the 90% threshhold (for unmanned) and 95% threshhold (for manned) missions is reached.

The Lesser Ribenia should make the determination, with Malkyer as backup (for any British or joint British / German missions)

An automatic death of crew upon failure seems a little unfair. The early space program especially had escape towers on top of the crew capsules that on unmanned tests performed perfectly. Perhaps once it has been determined there is a failure during launch there could be a second roll to see how the crew does.

I would be interested in RPing Irish Revolutions...

An automatic death of crew upon failure seems a little unfair. The early space program especially had escape towers on top of the crew capsules that on unmanned tests performed perfectly. Perhaps once it has been determined there is a failure during launch there could be a second roll to see how the crew does.

6 Mercury missions, 6 Gemini Missions, 7 Apollo missions (manned) 39 crew members, 3 crew deaths..... 7% fatalities

plus dozen X 15 missions, 1 crew death

Russians lost 5 astronauts prior to 1975, about same number of missions

numbers are based on history.

I would be interested in RPing Irish Revolutions...

Ireland gained its freedom peacefully in the 1920s

6 Mercury missions, 6 Gemini Missions, 7 Apollo missions (manned) 39 crew members, 3 crew deaths..... 7% fatalities

plus dozen X 15 missions, 1 crew death

Russians lost 5 astronauts prior to 1975, about same number of missions

numbers are based on history.

Just for argument's sake, which apollo missions were you counting?

Apollo 7 through 17 were manned (11 missions at 3 men each) and Apollo-Soyuz was from a similar era. That is 6+12+33+3=54 crew members. The Apollo 1 fire I assume you were referencing is not even included in that and happened during a ground test (something that i dont think LR is even rolling to check errors on), not the actual mission.

To be fair, there were missions like Apollo 13 that the crew really had no logical right to survive, and even with the numbers I listed a fatality rate was 5%. I was just arguing that there could be a little more subtlety and realism to spaceflight at the cost of maybe two extra dice rolls per mission.

Just for argument's sake, which apollo missions were you counting?

Apollo 7 through 17 were manned (11 missions at 3 men each) and Apollo-Soyuz was from a similar era. That is 6+12+33+3=54 crew members. The Apollo 1 fire I assume you were referencing is not even included in that and happened during a ground test (something that i dont think LR is even rolling to check errors on), not the actual mission.

To be fair, there were missions like Apollo 13 that the crew really had no logical right to survive, and even with the numbers I listed a fatality rate was 5%. I was just arguing that there could be a little more subtlety and realism to spaceflight at the cost of maybe two extra dice rolls per mission.

I grew up with a father working for NASA, and Apollo 1 was intended to be a manned mission eventually, and the crew deaths caused a significant delay. Apollo Soyuz and Skylab weren't counted, nor where any Soviet missions after 1972 (date of last US Apollo Mission).

No crew deaths occured for Russia or US again until Challenger. If you look at STS flights, roughly 150 flights, roughly 500 astronauts, and 14 deaths (2% loss rate in personnel, 40% loss rate in hardware, tech level 8 spacecraft).

This only looks at crew casualties in actual space flight, NASA lost an astronaut testing the experimental aircraft that was used to test the Lunar Module as well. Several US and Soviet astronauts lost their lives in aircraft accidents also.

Still better odds then routine jet operations, not to mention test pilots though during the period. According the Tom Wolfe (Right Stuff), the death rate was closer to 30% for pilots flying tech level 6 and 7 jets.

Loss rates on satellite and robot spacecraft missions are even worse though. As they are expensive, but not as expensive as manned missions, they still are economically painful. Cost of doing business though.

Finally remembered to do my news thread. Enjoy (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10621326)

Would the following nations report to the Syrian news thread:

Germany
Parth-for NPC's as well
Egypt
China
Brazil
FAS
Japan
SU
Australia
someone else in Europe
Someone else in Asia
Someone in either americas
the last three could be NPCs

I am making a list of major missions/embassies in foreign nations. I dont plan on having one in every country, but hopefully I can get more than one on each continent, and more than two in Europe, Asia, and Africa. You're government wouldn't know this, but my intel agency will be my favorite little plaything, so this will play a role, but not neccessarily in your country. For some nations I have better relations with, I already put in the missions. If they feel like objecting thats fine. Not meant to be a godmod, but an assumption.

what does one do once they report to the Syrian newsthread?

I grew up with a father working for NASA, and Apollo 1 was intended to be a manned mission eventually, and the crew deaths caused a significant delay. Apollo Soyuz and Skylab weren't counted, nor where any Soviet missions after 1972 (date of last US Apollo Mission).

No crew deaths occured for Russia or US again until Challenger. If you look at STS flights, roughly 150 flights, roughly 500 astronauts, and 14 deaths (2% loss rate in personnel, 40% loss rate in hardware, tech level 8 spacecraft).

This only looks at crew casualties in actual space flight, NASA lost an astronaut testing the experimental aircraft that was used to test the Lunar Module as well. Several US and Soviet astronauts lost their lives in aircraft accidents also.

Still better odds then routine jet operations, not to mention test pilots though during the period. According the Tom Wolfe (Right Stuff), the death rate was closer to 30% for pilots flying tech level 6 and 7 jets.

Loss rates on satellite and robot spacecraft missions are even worse though. As they are expensive, but not as expensive as manned missions, they still are economically painful. Cost of doing business though.

My grandfather worked at NASA at the same time--I wonder if he worked with your father?

I am aware of the statistics, and would like to think that my knowledge of history of manned spaceflight is among my stronger memorization traits. Your reasoning is sound, and as usual, a terrifyingly simple and effective way to depict the real world in this game. Thanks for the explanation behind the rules.

My grandfather worked at NASA at the same time--I wonder if he worked with your father?

I am aware of the statistics, and would like to think that my knowledge of history of manned spaceflight is among my stronger memorization traits. Your reasoning is sound, and as usual, a terrifyingly simple and effective way to depict the real world in this game. Thanks for the explanation behind the rules.

possible, my Dad worked at Langley 61 -66, and then JSC (then called the Manned Space Flight Center) from 66-90. I grew up in League City and Kemah, and still remember the grief when White, Grissom and Chaffee died, not to mention when the Challenger exploded.

Can not wait until you guys have your space race.

possible, my Dad worked at Langley 61 -66, and then JSC (then called the Manned Space Flight Center) from 66-90. I grew up in League City and Kemah, and still remember the grief when White, Grissom and Chaffee died, not to mention when the Challenger exploded.

My grandfather was at JSC from 64/65 through Challenger. During the 60's I believe he worked on spacesuit quality control of some sort. Though I am too young to remember anything important before Challenger, I have heard plenty of stories about all sorts of things. My mom lived just inside the Beltway in southeast Houston, and my family now lives in Pasadena.

Small world huh?

My grandfather was at JSC from 64/65 through Challenger. During the 60's I believe he worked on spacesuit quality control of some sort. Though I am too young to remember anything important before Challenger, I have heard plenty of stories about all sorts of things. My mom lived just inside the Beltway in southeast Houston, and my family now lives in Pasadena.

Small world huh?

we won't discuss the fact that you are young enough to be my kid

we won't discuss the fact that you are young enough to be my kid

:rolleyes: arent we all?

on a more relevant note, has anybody heard from the portuguese player? I was hoping on making some sort of move on East Timor and it wont be any fun if there is no opposition.

:rolleyes: arent we all?

on a more relevant note, has anybody heard from the portuguese player? I was hoping on making some sort of move on East Timor and it wont be any fun if there is no opposition.

Imperialist Aussies. ;)

That's right ladies and gents, after a brief hiatus, I am back and ready for some good old fashioned RP'ing! I'm not sure what nation I should take (if you guy's will let me in that is) so if you have any nations you need filled for what ever purpose, i will take that into consideration.

That's right ladies and gents, after a brief hiatus, I am back and ready for some good old fashioned RP'ing! I'm not sure what nation I should take (if you guy's will let me in that is) so if you have any nations you need filled for what ever purpose, i will take that into consideration.

Welcome back. Look at the list of NPC nations (should be on the first page of this new thread and go to the NPC thread from the linky) and take your pick.

Never did day what I wanted you to do did I? Well, I guess thats the problem with rushing out the door while posting. Anyways, I'd like to see if any of you would consent to embassies.

Never did day what I wanted you to do did I? Well, I guess thats the problem with rushing out the door while posting. Anyways, I'd like to see if any of you would consent to embassies.

China will agree to an embassy exchange.

Never did day what I wanted you to do did I? Well, I guess thats the problem with rushing out the door while posting. Anyways, I'd like to see if any of you would consent to embassies.

South Africa will agree to accept a Syrian embassy, and will send one to Syria.

Ireland gained its freedom peacefully in the 1920s

My apologies, I miss read somthing on the opening post...

I am making a list of major missions/embassies in foreign nations. I dont plan on having one in every country, but hopefully I can get more than one on each continent, and more than two in Europe, Asia, and Africa. You're government wouldn't know this, but my intel agency will be my favorite little plaything, so this will play a role, but not neccessarily in your country. For some nations I have better relations with, I already put in the missions. If they feel like objecting thats fine. Not meant to be a godmod, but an assumption.

I figured Syria and Egypt had already exchanged embassies. If not, I'm all for it.

I guess I'll take Saudi Arabia if you don't mind. Any major ahistorical changes that have happened that I should know about?

I guess I'll take Saudi Arabia if you don't mind. Any major ahistorical changes that have happened that I should know about?

OOC: Just a major war between the Saudis and the Hashemite Dynasties, with CIA and German Intellegence intervention.

I guess I'll take Saudi Arabia if you don't mind. Any major ahistorical changes that have happened that I should know about?

You don't know the half of it.

For one thing, you'd be embroiled in a war right now. You're also only Western Arabia (cities like Jiddah, Makkah, and Medinah = not yours). There is civil war between the Rashidis and the Saudi's going on, which in turn is part of the larger FAS Civil War. The Saudi's support the United Islamic Republic (a splinter republic of the FAS), thus making them enemies with everyone 'cept the UIR and the Scandic Union (which is sending troops and shit to help you).

Here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472868) be the war thread, just so ya know (Saudi Involvement isn't till a few pages in, though).

Kordo, if you want to be the Rashidis (who I will make sure win ;) ) you should know that you have 2 infantry corps and 2 pilots with TA-183Ds and your fighting the Saudis with Egypt and Syria being trained by Germans. Germans are also watching closely, not doing anything, 'cept making sure the Omanis don't annex you...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10633710#post10633710

New Foreign Possessions Thread

Hey guys. Looks like the RP has been rolling along great! I was wondering, though, if it would be possible to rejoin. Not nessecarily as Rumania, but I miss the RP. You don't have to let me back in and I don't expect you to, considering how we split before. Just wondering, though.

So, now the Civil War is over and there's a chance (say, 99%) that at least Persia and Afghanistan gain independance, can I continue with RPing the UIR?

So, now the Civil War is over and there's a chance (say, 99%) that at least Persia and Afghanistan gain independance, can I continue with RPing the UIR?

Well, you don't actually get all of Persia and Afghanistan.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/Thelightningstar/CivilWar.png

You get everywhere dark green.

But yeah, you pretty much get Persia and Afghanistan, except for the Baluch areas. And, if I have my way, the far west.

Hey guys. Looks like the RP has been rolling along great! I was wondering, though, if it would be possible to rejoin. Not nessecarily as Rumania, but I miss the RP. You don't have to let me back in and I don't expect you to, considering how we split before. Just wondering, though.


Sure, pick a country.

Hey guys. Looks like the RP has been rolling along great! I was wondering, though, if it would be possible to rejoin. Not nessecarily as Rumania, but I miss the RP. You don't have to let me back in and I don't expect you to, considering how we split before. Just wondering, though.

I wouldn't mind you back in the RP, Rodenka. Just look over the list of NPC nations and take your pick.

Amestria, because of real life and other RP obligations, will be withdrawing from the E20 RP.

Alright, I have a few quick questions for you all.

What is the political beliefs/stance of the Rashidis?

What is the status of (Saudi) Arabia's neighbors such as Iraq, Jorden, Yemen, ect.?

The war is really now between Rashidis, Egypt, Syria and Germany(vicariously) vs. Saudi Arabia correct?

Scandanavia has been covertly helping, but that cat is out of the bag now. Iraq is 3 different states (the Kurds shia and Sunni each got their own) Jordan isnt anything special, Yemen is an Omani puppet, Oman controls the UAE and is under the US sphere of influence. Kuwait is dominated by the British.

A European country like Russia might be a better idea. Theres lots of open spaces there.

A European country like Russia might be a better idea. Theres lots of open spaces there.

Indeed. We do need a Russia.

And welcome back, Rodenka. Glad to see you.

Indeed. We do need a Russia.

And welcome back, Rodenka. Glad to see you.

Thanks. Glad to be back....I missed the place.

I'll take Belgium.

I just added the FAS Civil War thread and the new Foreign Possesions thread to the list of links.

Rodneka, I need you to write up a Belgium News thread so I can put the link and your name up on the list.

Are there any other threads that needs to be added?

Will do....I'll have to do some research into Belgium's army, etc. I;ll have itup by tomorrow night.

Will do....I'll have to do some research into Belgium's army, etc. I;ll have itup by tomorrow night.

I would suggest using what Belgium had during the bad old days of the Cold War at most... 2 regular and 2 reserve mechanized infantry divisions, a fighter unit, and an airborne brigade, plus a reserve HQ unit, 1 destroyer squadron, and a coastal patrol unit (torpedo boats).

Belgium would have US and UK equipment most likely

Britain would have been glad to supply Belgium with any equipment needed. Including pretty decent fighters (eg. anything from old Meteors through to new Lightnings) though the US fighters are pretty good too (they tend to have better air ratings but worse strike ratings).

Oh and Belgium is part of an economic pact with Netherlands, Burgundy, Germany, France and the UK, not to mention also a space program.

Also an offer was presented to Belgium asking if they would like if France built a production centre in Belgium in exchange for half the points generated by it (normal spending:1/Cut:0.5/National effort:1.5) for 30 years, in the unlikely case of warefare payments can be postponed.

As I was assigned it, I did the Belgium build for 1952, however as that year has not begun yet im sure you can edit it to your liking:

Belgium 1952 build
Population: 8 Million
Tech level: 7
Government:Capitalist Democracy
Economy: (Cut Spending) [5% natural growth + 1% EEC bonus= 6%]
Economic Budget: 25 points (Production centres [7] :Liege 3, Brussels 3, Antwerp 1. Commerce [10]: 1x national airline 2, 1x international airline 2, 4x shipping units 6 [2,000,000 million tons]. Other [6]: 6 colonial points. Growth [2]: 1x point of growth 2

Domestic Spending:

level 3 social services 3 points,
civil defense 1 point,
5 Shipping units 15 points


Military Spending:

Maintenance:
4 garrison units 1 point,
4 expert pilots 2 points,
1 F84 jet fighter bomber unit .5 points,
1 C47 unit .25 points,
1 elite airborne brigade 1 point,
2 light ship units (5 destroyers, 20 corvettes) .5 points

Total= 5.25

Aw, now I'm flip-flopping between Russia and the Rashidis!

I'll get you an answer by the end of the day unless the mods / general population wants me to be a certain one.

Russia would probably be better, as becoming the 4th PC in the middle east would be a bit congested, and the Rashidis are tech 2, meaning advanced technology for them is chariots

I have decided to accept Russia, if no one has any objections. Once I work out its current situation, (any help you can offer is wanted) I will post my news thread and my builds for '52.

News Thread Up! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10644003#post10644003)

I need some help with my economy and military, as I have no clue how Belgium is doing at thsi stage of the RP.

Sorry to all for my lack of involvement the past weekend. My computer fried and my girlfriend thought that it wouldn't be a good idea to do NS at her house... pssh whatever...

Anyways, my involvment the next week will be strained as the school musical is this weekend and I have to set up a lot of the things (I'm doing lights). However, I'll do what I can and I'm glad you decided to do the NPC builds :p

If you have any big NPC questions, its better to TG me. I always go there first and will answer all of them.

Welp, seeing as Rodenka is back I might as well reapply for membership. Anyway, I have a few ideas.

I'm considering Cuba, should I be accepted.

Any NPC dictatorships I can have a revolution in?

New News Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=474792)

Nothin' in it but.....

I'm assuming that the Russian Government is similar to that in RL?

I've surveyed the list of NPS Nations. Nigeria looks fun.

I've surveyed the list of NPS Nations. Nigeria looks fun.

Welcome back, Kilani. Glad to have you back on-board.

Do your best. :)

Yay! More Afrikans!

I vote no more Asians for a while... there are too many of them already...

Parthini']Yay! More Afrikans!

I vote no more Asians for a while... there are too many of them already...

Haha.

Lets see....

China
USEA
Korea
Japan
FAS
Australia
Russia

Thats 7 Asians out of, what, 15 people playing E20? ;)

Plus UIR and Syria...

Jeez...

Thats 7 Asians out of, what, 15 people playing E20?

Me, too (Sinai, Palestine)

Righto. Time for a first world African nation that ISN'T ruled by whites. OK. Any background I should know about Nigeria in this timeline before I start.

And thanks for the welcome back.

You're a lot more industrialized and better off. And your allied to me.

Yay! Germany and Nigeria will rule space!

Haha.

Lets see....

China
USEA
Korea
Japan
FAS
Australia
Russia

Thats 7 Asians out of, what, 15 people playing E20? ;)

I'm only a quasi-Asian...

Parthini, can you or another mod give me Nigeria's economic/military info so I can start planning my next build? I want to rurally electrify and increase my Merchant Fleet...

Mongolia and Tibet have officially re-joined China.

Mongolia = 1951.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10645834&postcount=196

Tibet = 1952.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10645900&postcount=197

I have approval for these.

Yay! Germany and Nigeria will rule space!

And as an additional plus, South Africa probably won't invade you.

(No apartheid means nice ;) )

Kilani, from the NPC thread, here's Nigeria's info, although, I think you've already been electrified. I could be wrong, however, as you weren't my colony... *dreams*:

Nigeria

Pop: 35 million
Tech: 6
Income: 2 production centres at Lagos, 5 points from Oil exports, 2 points from cruise terminal and airport.
Spending: 10 points for level 3 social services, 1 point for one infantry division
Growth: 1/2 production centre.

Parthini']Kilani, from the NPC thread, here's Nigeria's info, although, I think you've already been electrified. <snip>

Nigeria is electrified; either the British or the Americans paid for just before the Third World War.

And as an additional plus, South Africa probably won't invade you.

(No apartheid means nice ;) )

I also don't share a border with you. =p

I plan on turning Nigeria into a dominant military and economic power in Africa. You know, annex a couple small neighbors. That sort of thing. (I keed I keed)

Alright. Thanks guys. Looks like i need to start building a massive merchant fleet >>

hey is brazil electrified. and if so what is the 10% thing about. im real confused

Alright. Thanks guys. Looks like i need to start building a massive merchant fleet >>

You could contract China to build you a Tech Level 7 Merchant Fleet. :)

Champren: To my knowledge, Brazil has not been electrified. Basically, "rural electrification" is just that, bringing power to outlying areas. What you do is spend 2 points per 10 million people a year for 2 years, and when you're done you'll get a permanent 10% boost in your income (if your original base income was 100 points, for example, after RE you'd have 110 base points, and build up from there), which symbolizes greater productivity and such like.

If you're still confused send me a TG and I'll try to explain more clearly.

Looks like i need to start building a massive merchant fleet

Pick South Africa. We're closer.

Nigeria is electrified; either the British or the Americans paid for just before the Third World War.

The US provided the points for the economic upgrades, while the British provided social services.. it was a US/British/South African partnership aimed at preventing the real world catastrophe that is Africa, and also designed to increase the LTA resource and production base during the bad old days of the Union/LTA cold war (that eventually went hot)

Pick Germany. We're gonna rule space together.

Yes, I know, I left. However, since I now have more free time to devote to such things, I'm interested in rejoining E20. I'd really like to play a big, but poor, country. Perhaps Indonesia?

Yes, I know, I left. However, since I now have more free time to devote to such things, I'm interested in rejoining E20. I'd really like to play a big, but poor, country. Perhaps Indonesia?

Just look at the list of NPC nations, but if Indonesia suits you well then go for it (although Australia is doing stuff with Indonesia though).

Mongolia and Tibet have officially re-joined China.

Mongolia = 1951.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10645834&postcount=196

Tibet = 1952.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10645900&postcount=197

I have approval for these.

The Government of India declares that they do not recognize this absorbtion of China and Mongolia, and threaten that they will leave the Seoul Conference Treaty unless a vote is held for Tibet to decide it's own fate.

OOC: The FAS has always counted on Tibet being it's buffer state between China. That's why we've poured like 50 points into Tibet over the last 8 years; so that they didn't NEED to join China. The quality of life in Tibet is far higher than any other part of Asia, methinks (they only need like 1 point for level 5 services, and I've been giving them at least 1.5 points every single year), and Tibet is a nice, peaceful mountain kingdom. Why would they want to join China? The Ethnic Tibetans are nothing like the Ethnic Han, and there has always been friction between the two groups. There hasn't been any such friction between the Tibetans and Indians...

New News Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=474792)

Nothin' in it but.....

I'm assuming that the Russian Government is similar to that in RL?

Probaly isn't even close, the real Russia has been nuked multiple times, not to mention the different chemical and biological weapons used on your territory. You've lost a lot of land, Lenningrad, Murmansk exc, you have to check the WW3 thread for exactly what you lost I don't know off the top of my head.

The Government of India declares that they do not recognize this absorbtion of China and Mongolia, and threaten that they will leave the Seoul Conference Treaty unless a vote is held for Tibet to decide it's own fate.

OOC: The FAS has always counted on Tibet being it's buffer state between China. That's why we've poured like 50 points into Tibet over the last 8 years; so that they didn't NEED to join China. The quality of life in Tibet is far higher than any other part of Asia, methinks (they only need like 1 point for level 5 services, and I've been giving them at least 1.5 points every single year), and Tibet is a nice, peaceful mountain kingdom. Why would they want to join China? The Ethnic Tibetans are nothing like the Ethnic Han, and there has always been friction between the two groups. There hasn't been any such friction between the Tibetans and Indians...

China counters India's accusations.

"Tibet has chosen willingly to join China, and they retain their self-goverance such as domestic laws. They also get to retain their culture and traditions."

---------------------------------

OOC:

You're not the only one who has invested in Tibet. In fact, China has invested nearly twice as much in Tibet than India (including Chinese development of Tibetian oil wells, industry, and sector). The high quality social services will continue in Tibet. That alone should give Tibetians more faith in China, as well as the fact that China is committed to improving Tibetian ways of life instead of crushing Tibet under the Chinese heel (RL commie China).

Besides, how is it any different for India (with its Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, etc.) or the USA (Irish, Italians, Saxons, Swedes, Africans, Hispanics, etc. What's more... Utah is part of the USA, but it has a large Mormon population that disagreed with quite a bit of the USA's stuff especially laws about polygamy and Christian-based laws. There has been friction between Mormons and Christians... However, Utah didn't secede or leave the USA, did it? It's still a part of the USA.

Withdraw from the SCT if you must. China will stand by Tibet's democratic and voluntary decision to re-join China. Otherwise, Tibet wouldn't be re-joining China, eh? Tibet officials, even the Dalai Lama, has been in talks with China for the past several game years about re-joining. I even got the proper approval for the reunification.

Just look at the list of NPC nations, but if Indonesia suits you well then go for it (although Australia is doing stuff with Indonesia though).

I can catch you up with what is going on with Indonesia if you are still interested, but you should be aware the nation is going to be smaller than it is in real life. Kalimantan and Sulawesi have been peeled off to join with British Singapore and Malaya, and Australia has annexed all of the minor islands to the east of Bali. Smaller population, but it is Australian policy to be pretty generous toward the area if you need help early on industrializing.

ooc: If India left the SCT, the only one to lose in the situation would be India. If anything, you should want to make closer ties with the SCT now that the only border country seperating you and china has now been swallowed up. Exasberating the situation will not help.

Actually, I think that Burma would be ideal for me. Is it noticeably different from real life? I seem to remember something about China invading...

And on the China note, why would Tibet rejoin China? Since they're surely aware that both India and China have been investing in the region, why wouldn't the Tibetans continue to play the two giants off against one another?

Actually, I think that Burma would be ideal for me. Is it noticeably different from real life? I seem to remember something about China invading...

That was during WW-2 because the Union threatened to invade China if China didn't invade the LTA in Burma.

And on the China note, why would Tibet rejoin China? Since they're surely aware that both India and China have been investing in the region, why wouldn't the Tibetans continue to play the two giants off against one another?

China has invested considerably more in Tibet than India, developed Tibet's economy (oil wells, refineries, etc.), rural-electrified Tibet (hooked up to China's electric grid), built highways, railroads, sewer systems, hospitals, schools, built airports, etc.

Besides, India lost its "giant" status, stability, and prestige with all the goings-on in the FAS Civil War. India alienated the Nepal people and their Gurkas, and India used chemical weapons in the civil war. If Tibet were to become part of China, it will be much better protected from threats like that, and from other nations who may seek to undermine Tibet.

What's more, Tibet stands to gain far more by being a "state" of China than staying neutral. Tibet now has full access to Chinese resources, education, healthcare, economy, defense forces, etc. which is far more than India can offer at this point in time (because of the whole FAS Civil War). What's more, India is supposedly turning dictatorship from the war, while joining China would allow Tibet to retain its democracy, culture, and traditions under an umbrella of protection.

China has invested considerably more in Tibet than India, developed Tibet's economy (oil wells, refineries, etc.), rural-electrified Tibet (hooked up to China's electric grid), built highways, railroads, sewer systems, hospitals, schools, built airports, etc.

Besides, India lost its "giant" status, stability, and prestige with all the goings-on in the FAS Civil War. India alienated the Nepal people and their Gurkas, and India used chemical weapons in the civil war. If Tibet were to become part of China, it will be much better protected from threats like that, and from other nations who may seek to undermine Tibet.

What's more, Tibet stands to gain far more by being a "state" of China than staying neutral. Tibet now has full access to Chinese resources, education, healthcare, economy, defense forces, etc. which is far more than India can offer at this point in time (because of the whole FAS Civil War). What's more, India is supposedly turning dictatorship from the war, while joining China would allow Tibet to retain its democracy, culture, and traditions under an umbrella of protection.

But Switzerland would never join Germany or France for any of those reasons, despite having much more in common culturally with those nations than Tibet has with China.

It makes much more sense for Tibet to stay independent. Here's why.
--If it were simply a contest of how much a nation has been given in aid to see if it is annexed, then the US would control all of Central America and most of Africa.
--Thanks to all the points poured in by China and India, Tibet had education and healthcare at least as good as that offered by China.
--Tibet's neutrality (and geography) make any attack on it relatively pointless. It does not need a big military to defend it. In fact, joining with China actually could make it more likely to be a target of India in the future. The nation is safer playing two bigger rivals against each other. India may have been smashed up by the war, but it is still easily big enough to qualify as a giant in the region.
--Tibet maintains its culture, democracy, and traditions without answering to Peking/Bejing, a nation that has a wildly different tradition and background.
--Tibet has a history in E20 of wanting independence and the reasons for joining simply do not outweigh those for continued Independence.

I really do understand where you are coming from with this Sharina, but I also really think that the realism of the game will suffer if this goes through. I would be very interested in knowing who approved this, so they can at least hear an appeal from those players who dont think this should/could happen. If they still believe that this is a reasonable development, then I promise you wont hear another word from me on the subject.

--If it were simply a contest of how much a nation has been given in aid to see if it is annexed, then the US would control all of Central America and most of Africa.

Allow me to clarify.

I didn't mean to suggest that it was a "contest". I was trying to suggest that China had invested far more in Tibet than India has done, and that basically China *did* more for Tibet than India, therefore increasing pro-Chinese sentiment.

--Thanks to all the points poured in by China and India, Tibet had education and healthcare at least as good as that offered by China.

Yes- but that can only occur as long as China and/or India continues to fund Tibet. Tibet can't fund this on its own, but membership within China ensures that Tibet will *ALWAYS* be provided for when it comes to top level social services, maintaining its infrastructure, maintaining a military, and so forth.

--Tibet's neutrality (and geography) make any attack on it relatively pointless. It does not need a big military to defend it. In fact, joining with China actually could make it more likely to be a target of India in the future. The nation is safer playing two bigger rivals against each other. India may have been smashed up by the war, but it is still easily big enough to qualify as a giant in the region.

Thats not exactly true. The same geography and such will work *AGANIST* India's invasion or attack upon Tibet. However, with the new Indian government, there's no knowing what their intentions are towards Tibet.

--Tibet maintains its culture, democracy, and traditions without answering to Peking/Bejing, a nation that has a wildly different tradition and background.

Thats debatable.

In this timeline, China is democratic and encourages diversity and such through painful experiences. In RL timeline, China went the commie route and suppresses diversity and democracy.

How is the USA any different? People in Texas and California are different than people in Washington D.C. The Mormons in Utah are different than the majority Catholic / Christian USA. The large hispanic communities in southwestern USA are different than New Englanders. Blacks have their own culture and identity in the USA that is different than the "White" culture and identity. However, the USA has held together and not collapsed.

I have stated repeatedly in my News Thread IC'ly that China is modeling itself after the USA's government and diversity. This is quite the opposite of RL China.

--Tibet has a history in E20 of wanting independence and the reasons for joining simply do not outweigh those for continued Independence.

Tibet gained independence in the 1930's rather forcibly. However, prior to this there had been no IC noises about independence (at least what I can remember) Mongolia was a somewhat different story- it was way back in the 1900's before the whole Union Pact V.S. LTA thing when Mongolia had a PC player.

I really do understand where you are coming from with this Sharina, but I also really think that the realism of the game will suffer if this goes through. I would be very interested in knowing who approved this, so they can at least hear an appeal from those players who dont think this should/could happen.

Allow me to cite multiple examples.

1. Venzeula re-joining Colombia, creating Gran Colombia. Then expand to include Ecaudor, Suriname, French Guyana, etc.

2. The FNS unifying Gran Colombia and Argentina, Chile. Peru, etc.

3. Norway re-joining Sweden or the other way around (forgot which nation Safehaven was playing first, Norway or Sweden) to create the SU, then Denmark and Finland and parts of Russia.

4. Egypt unifying with Sudan.

5. South Africa gobbling up several nations in southern Africa (and Madagascar)

6. Austria re-joining Germany.

7. Parts of Indonesia joining Australia.

8. Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos unifying into the USEA despite different traditions, monarchies, governments, etc.

9. India annexing Afghanistan, Iran, Persia, and such (before the FAS civil war).

As you can see, Tibet re-joining China is no different from these other E20 mergers and annexations.


EDIT:

I was talking to GB about Tibet re-joining China prior to GB relinquishing his mod duties. He said China could have Tibet but it would take time (that was when we were still in the 1940's). I asked Parthini as the NPC mod and explained my reasoning, and then he got back to me and approved Tibet joining China by 1952 or so.

EDIT 2:

I can produce the proof if needed.

But Switzerland would never join Germany or France for any of those reasons, despite having much more in common culturally with those nations than Tibet has with China.

It makes much more sense for Tibet to stay independent. Here's why.
--If it were simply a contest of how much a nation has been given in aid to see if it is annexed, then the US would control all of Central America and most of Africa.
--Thanks to all the points poured in by China and India, Tibet had education and healthcare at least as good as that offered by China.
--Tibet's neutrality (and geography) make any attack on it relatively pointless. It does not need a big military to defend it. In fact, joining with China actually could make it more likely to be a target of India in the future. The nation is safer playing two bigger rivals against each other. India may have been smashed up by the war, but it is still easily big enough to qualify as a giant in the region.
--Tibet maintains its culture, democracy, and traditions without answering to Peking/Bejing, a nation that has a wildly different tradition and background.
--Tibet has a history in E20 of wanting independence and the reasons for joining simply do not outweigh those for continued Independence.

I really do understand where you are coming from with this Sharina, but I also really think that the realism of the game will suffer if this goes through. I would be very interested in knowing who approved this, so they can at least hear an appeal from those players who dont think this should/could happen. If they still believe that this is a reasonable development, then I promise you wont hear another word from me on the subject.

I considered all that at the time, and I had my concerns. However, China promised regional autonomy to Tibet, China is a democratic nation, and India is expansionist and somewhat scary at the moment. China spent more money than India did and wooed Tibet. Tibet also lacks a supporter other then either China or India, and at least China spent money to industralize it, increasing its economic ties. So a self governing Tibet which gives up part of its soveriegnty to China is not unreasonable.

Plus it simplifies things a bit. Besides, in the scheme of things, Tibet isn't all that critical. It for one can't be used as a launching pad to invade India for example (those pesky Himalayas). Its a backwater really, so removing it doesn't hurt game balance and historically China did end up with it eventually anyway, so its not unreasonable that it ended up with it peacefully in this situation.

That help?

I considered all that at the time, and I had my concerns. However, China promised regional autonomy to Tibet, China is a democratic nation, and India is expansionist and somewhat scary at the moment. China spent more money than India did and wooed Tibet. Tibet also lacks a supporter other then either China or India, and at least China spent money to industralize it, increasing its economic ties. So a self governing Tibet which gives up part of its soveriegnty to China is not unreasonable.

Plus it simplifies things a bit. Besides, in the scheme of things, Tibet isn't all that critical. It for one can't be used as a launching pad to invade India for example (those pesky Himalayas). Its a backwater really, so removing it doesn't hurt game balance and historically China did end up with it eventually anyway, so its not unreasonable that it ended up with it peacefully in this situation.

That help?

Thanks, GB.

My intention the whole time was to give Tibet "statehood" modeled after the USA (as China is reforming itself on a model based off the US and its State-Level and Federal-Level government).

Tibet could be like China's own Alaska or Texas- Tibetians being able to pass their own laws and ordiances. They have freedom of religion. The Dalai Lama is allowed to continue as he has been (government, politics, spirituality, religion, etc.). Tibetian goods can reach the world market through Chinese railroads and airports and sea-ports. People can come tour Tibet. The Tibetian power grid is connected to China (after all, China rural-electrified Tibet as part of its China Electrification project of 1950 - 1951). There are many more benefits- but you get the general idea.

I appreciate the explanations. Thanks to GB and Sharina.

I guess I still have trouble making the transition in my head to a truly democratic china from the RL commies--that alone really tilts the balance in favor of a union. Consider any objections withdrawn (especially since I was ironically playing Australia in favor of china getting tibet).

The Indian Government must first see proof that the Tibetan people voted in free and fair elections to join China. If we see such proof, then we shall accept the verdict.

OOC: This is really worrying Ayub, by the way. One of the tri-pods of the FAS used to be that it didn't border any major powers, and that's why they are so focused on keeping Tibet free; they gave Tibet troops and training during the war, and they have given alot of points to Tibet. Yes, we may have only given them 50 points over the last 7 years, but that's more than enough for them to consider staying Neutral. Those were all points for Tibet to industrialise, by the way, even wracked with war-debt, we continued to give points. After all, can China claim to have level 5 services throughout the country? If you only give Tibet level 5 services, then the rest of the Chinese will get pissed off, since the non-chinese are being treated "better" than the actually chinese.

Nigeria Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10650398#post10650398)

OOC: Oh, by the way, elections have been held in India. Take that, Western Nations!

Do we still use chatzy?

yes

can I get the link? >_>

http://www.chatzy.com/684093003041

OOC: Oh, by the way, elections have been held in India. Take that, Western Nations!

Why are you so anti-western, shit. More like Anti-European. We've done nothing.

btw,
Elections have been held in Colombia for the past century! take that Asian Nations!

OOC: Shit, you think Europe cares? Maybe, just maybe, England cares. But the SU and I are too much at each other's throats, and we hate you anyways. The Balkans suck. Greece is jingoistic and just wants to conquer you where Alexander failed. Russia is humiliated and doesn't care about democracy anyways. Besides, it was the people who caused WWIII.

It's Korea and the USEA who have been all over your ass. They're your allies anyways... sheesh.

Parthini']OOC: Shit, you think Europe cares? Maybe, just maybe, England cares. But the SU and I are too much at each other's throats, and we hate you anyways. The Balkans suck. Greece is jingoistic and just wants to conquer you where Alexander failed. Russia is humiliated and doesn't care about democracy anyways. Besides, it was the people who caused WWIII.

It's Korea and the USEA who have been all over your ass. They're your allies anyways... sheesh.

OOC: Um, last I checked, I'm the only PC asian member of the Commonwealth, and they were all debating to kick me out if I don't have elections.

Also, Artista, in response to why I am anti-western, it's because the west has done nothing but get India sucked into stupid wars. We got into the Second Great War because India was a British Dominion. We got into the Third Great War because GB decided that I somehow wanted to go to war against a massive superpower on my border (my original plan was to stay neutral 'till '43, and by that time I would join in and take all the glory, like the good 'ole US o' A did in WWII), and loose 40 million people. THEN the West proped up a brutal dictatorship that destroyed Indian democracy and started a civil war, and THEN the west in effect toppled the brutal dictatorship and replaced it with another one. Sure, Ayub Khan and his Indian Imperialist Party were elected, but they now have a large majority in Parliament. They can pull an Adolf Hitler any day now.

OOC: Um, last I checked, I'm the only PC asian member of the Commonwealth, and they were all debating to kick me out if I don't have elections.

Also, Artista, in response to why I am anti-western, it's because the west has done nothing but get India sucked into stupid wars. We got into the Second Great War because India was a British Dominion. We got into the Third Great War because GB decided that I somehow wanted to go to war against a massive superpower on my border (my original plan was to stay neutral 'till '43, and by that time I would join in and take all the glory, like the good 'ole US o' A did in WWII), and loose 40 million people. THEN the West proped up a brutal dictatorship that destroyed Indian democracy and started a civil war, and THEN the west in effect toppled the brutal dictatorship and replaced it with another one. Sure, Ayub Khan and his Indian Imperialist Party were elected, but they now have a large majority in Parliament. They can pull an Adolf Hitler any day now.

Actually, if Middle Snu rejoined as Burma you are one of two PC asian commonwealth players

OOC: Um, last I checked, I'm the only PC asian member of the Commonwealth, and they were all debating to kick me out if I don't have elections.

Also, Artista, in response to why I am anti-western, it's because the west has done nothing but get India sucked into stupid wars. We got into the Second Great War because India was a British Dominion. We got into the Third Great War because GB decided that I somehow wanted to go to war against a massive superpower on my border (my original plan was to stay neutral 'till '43, and by that time I would join in and take all the glory, like the good 'ole US o' A did in WWII), and loose 40 million people. THEN the West proped up a brutal dictatorship that destroyed Indian democracy and started a civil war, and THEN the west in effect toppled the brutal dictatorship and replaced it with another one. Sure, Ayub Khan and his Indian Imperialist Party were elected, but they now have a large majority in Parliament. They can pull an Adolf Hitler any day now.

ooc
you have an interesting assessment of the events in this RP. First of all, you were inactive as a player during part of the 2nd Great War, and the Union decided to invade India, so it wouldn't have mattered if you were for the war or not. In the Third Great War, you voiced no complaints whatsoever about your easy conquest of Afghanistan and Persia until the Union decided to try and eliminate both India and China as military threats using biological and nuclear weapons. Then you complained. However, it was militarily logical for the Union to act against you in just the way they did.

The Third Great War ended in 1942, so waiting to enter the war until 1943 would have benefited you not at all. The West took NO direct role in toppling the most recent Indian government. The Commonwealth didn't pull out until the government collapsed, while the US warned India that continued use of chemical weapons would not be allowed but otherwise took no action against you except to cut off the sale of military supplies. As India had other sources, particularly the British, that move was symbolic only.

The Wests role in toppling the Indian government before that is iffy at best. You want to play a Fascist type dictatorship in India, and that is all there is to it, and you are therefore attempting to blame the other players for forcing your hand.

I have no objections to your deciding to go this route (fascism for India), just be aware that you aren't playing in a vacuem and other players may have moves they make to counterattack your moves. In addition, realistically, the FAS is a ethnic stew, and a lot of those ethnicities hate one another for traditional reasons. Your control over Persia and Afghanistan was given to you by the UN, which also has the right to strip it from you.

Brazil has held elections!!!!!!

its probably time to create a space exploration thread

its probably time to create a space exploration thread

Seconded.

Who should be the space mod (and maintain the thread by extension)? I wouldn't mind, seeing that I know quite a bit about space and GB has stepped back from mod duties.

ooc
you have an interesting assessment of the events in this RP. First of all, you were inactive as a player during part of the 2nd Great War, and the Union decided to invade India, so it wouldn't have mattered if you were for the war or not. In the Third Great War, you voiced no complaints whatsoever about your easy conquest of Afghanistan and Persia until the Union decided to try and eliminate both India and China as military threats using biological and nuclear weapons. Then you complained. However, it was militarily logical for the Union to act against you in just the way they did.

The Third Great War ended in 1942, so waiting to enter the war until 1943 would have benefited you not at all. The West took NO direct role in toppling the most recent Indian government. The Commonwealth didn't pull out until the government collapsed, while the US warned India that continued use of chemical weapons would not be allowed but otherwise took no action against you except to cut off the sale of military supplies. As India had other sources, particularly the British, that move was symbolic only.

The Wests role in toppling the Indian government before that is iffy at best. You want to play a Fascist type dictatorship in India, and that is all there is to it, and you are therefore attempting to blame the other players for forcing your hand.

I have no objections to your deciding to go this route (fascism for India), just be aware that you aren't playing in a vacuem and other players may have moves they make to counterattack your moves. In addition, realistically, the FAS is a ethnic stew, and a lot of those ethnicities hate one another for traditional reasons. Your control over Persia and Afghanistan was given to you by the UN, which also has the right to strip it from you.

OOC: I was inactive during the second great war because one: Britain was in charge of everything, not me, and two: No one bothered to explain to me what the hell was going on. And then when I did figure out what happened, I asked how I could participate, and no one told me.

Secondly, I didn't complain about the conquest of Persia and Afghanistan because I was under the impression that the Union would focus on the more important front, instead of on me. I had no say in where my armies went and who they attacked; in this recent civl war, I told LR everything I wanted to happen, and he executed what I said to the letter (and I thank him for that). You, however, decided that I wanted to spear-head an invasion of the Soviet Union. I was fine sitting in Persia and Afghanistan.

Thirdly, the west played no direct role in toppling Yahya. Just like the west played no direct role in putting Zia in power, or the west played no direct role in proping up Saddam Hussein. When the U.S. pulled out support the Yahya, things began to fall apart. When Colombia pledged support for the rebels, the building begain to crumble. When members of the Commonwealth began to talk about withdrawing their support, it ended poorly. Like it or not, you can't act as if the west played no role in deposing Yahya Khan. Especially when you went ahead with the UN proposal of sanctions against the FAS, even once many nations had agree'd to my moderation proposal. From there, Ayub saw that he had the support (or at least Yahya had lost enough support), and the building collapsed. Y'know the saying, when you give someone an inch...

ooc: Of course, Colombia will always verbally support any pro-democracy rebels, but if they use violent means, they do not recieve monetary aid. Which they didn't.

ooc: Of course, Colombia will always verbally support any pro-democracy rebels, but if they use violent means, they do not recieve monetary aid. Which they didn't.

OOC: It wasn't your fault, per se. Thing of it as another bullet in the body an instance before death.

ooc. Ok guys, the UIR cotnrolled territories have voted, and about 87% voted for independance.

ooc. Ok guys, the UIR cotnrolled territories have voted, and about 87% voted for independance.

OOC:

Look here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10656654#post10656654).

I'm willing to negotiate you getting the important oil regions. Mainly, you get the oil-rich Western Territory, in exchange for the parts of Pakhtunistan on the Indian side of the Hindu Kush, the Baluch areas of Iran and Afghanistan, and that little strip of land between India and the Central Asian Republic.

Anyone know when Nigeria hits Tech 7?

Anyone know when Nigeria hits Tech 7?

Well, the more money you have, the faster you'll progress technologically. Right now you've only got two industrial centers, an airline, etc. In other word, you're pretty poor. You've got economic potential, certainly, but little actual capital. Depending on foreign aid and how fast you can expand your economy, I'd say early 1960s.

Input from Galveston Bay or Lesser Ribena?

Well, the more money you have, the faster you'll progress technologically. Right now you've only got two industrial centers, an airline, etc. In other word, you're pretty poor. You've got economic potential, certainly, but little actual capital. Depending on foreign aid and how fast you can expand your economy, I'd say early 1960s.

Input from Galveston Bay or Lesser Ribena?

I have an idea.

Seeing how we have all these new Commonwealth members, how about all the rich members pour alot of money into these countries building up their infrastructures. That way, they can move quickly into the higher levels.

That is, of course, unless you guys kick me out...

Secondly, I didn't complain about the conquest of Persia and Afghanistan because I was under the impression that the Union would focus on the more important front, instead of on me. I had no say in where my armies went and who they attacked; in this recent civl war, I told LR everything I wanted to happen, and he executed what I said to the letter (and I thank him for that). You, however, decided that I wanted to spear-head an invasion of the Soviet Union. I was fine sitting in Persia and Afghanistan. ...

You misunderstand completely why the Union used nukes and biological weapons against you. Your existance required the Union to keep between 8 - 12 corps of troops tied down to an inactive front while the LTA was smashing down the front door from the west. If your nation had been eliminated, driven into chaos or simply knocked out of the war, half or more of those troops could have been (and where) shifted to the main fronts. Of course by the time that happened, it was too late, but it was an appropriate action considering the situation. Your armies never did anything more than what you indicated, but their existance was not something that could be ignored.


Thirdly, the west played no direct role in toppling Yahya. Just like the west played no direct role in putting Zia in power, or the west played no direct role in proping up Saddam Hussein. When the U.S. pulled out support the Yahya, things began to fall apart. When Colombia pledged support for the rebels, the building begain to crumble. When members of the Commonwealth began to talk about withdrawing their support, it ended poorly. Like it or not, you can't act as if the west played no role in deposing Yahya Khan. Especially when you went ahead with the UN proposal of sanctions against the FAS, even once many nations had agree'd to my moderation proposal. From there, Ayub saw that he had the support (or at least Yahya had lost enough support), and the building collapsed. Y'know the saying, when you give someone an inch...

You are also overstating seriously the US role in this affair. The US has never had strong relations with India since it became neutral prior to the Third World War, and in fact, never supplied you with any aid whatsoever during the Third World War or after. Any US supplied military equipment and aircraft were purchased from the US, not given as foreign aid. So the US arms embargo is a relatively small thing considering how much aid the Commonwealth gave you before the Third World War, during and after. The UN resolution was never actually passed, and probably would have been vetoed. Therefore, the only actual Western Pressure was some verbal criticism in the UN from the US, substantial press criticism, Australia pulling out, and then once your government fell, the rest of the Commonwealth withdrew.

Anyone know when Nigeria hits Tech 7?

ooc
my guess would be in about a decade... it was accelerated from tech level 2 to tech level 6 in about 15 years, so more time is needed I would think.

Thanks GB.

Just an idea, but what if, instead of just saying "2 points to try to assassinate leader of nation X," more thorough plans had to be/could be submitted. Something along the lines of "A team of agents from nation Y will go to the capitol of country X, posing as reporters. When at a press release at the capitol of nation X, they take out pistols and assassinate the prime minister" or whatever, presumably TG'ed to the mod and possibly the victim nation. Depending on the feasibility of the mission (exploding cigarettes are less likely to succeed than a snipe would), a sucess rate could be decided upon, and it would add a bit of narrative. Or perhaps, if optional, have a well thought out narrative increase chances or something?

Or perhaps, if optional, have a well thought out narrative increase chances or something?

I think narrative and detail of planning ought to be able to affect the outcome somewhat, but with obvious limitations. After all, a page-long, uber-descriptive and suspenseful, well-thought out exploding cigarette is still an exploding cigarette.

Anyone know when Nigeria hits Tech 7?

I'd give it to the 60's, you've just experienced a massive tech increase and nations which have historically done so tend to require a bit of time to "catch up with themselves", for example improving industrial and domestic use of current technology before moving on to another tech increase. Still 10 years isn't too long to wait in the RP.

I think narrative and detail of planning ought to be able to affect the outcome somewhat, but with obvious limitations. After all, a page-long, uber-descriptive and suspenseful, well-thought out exploding cigarette is still an exploding cigarette.

Indeed a narrative should improve things a bit, but shouldn't be the major deciding factor.

if war breaks out between the Scandic Union and Germany (and spreads), I can referee it. The US plans to sit this one out unless someone uses nuclear weapons.

I have the perfect computer game to handle it (Operational Art of War.. even has the right aircraft available)

The US plans to sit this one out unless someone uses nuclear weapons.



I won't be using em.

Is the Polish guy active at all? I'm just wondering, since I'd be mighty pissed off if Poland got absorbed into Russia or Germany because of in-activity...

I don't think he is.

I don't think he is.

We need to find a replacement for him, then.

TLS: ever try to get Rome into this?

TLS: ever try to get Rome into this?

Come to think of it, I haven't. I tried to get Roach Busters into it (he's another guy I RP with), but he's doing something else.

Come to think of it, I haven't. I tried to get Roach Busters into it (he's another guy I RP with), but he's doing something else.

Didn't RB sign up to play as some Central American country in the very beginning?

Didn't RB sign up to play as some Central American country in the very beginning?

several well known (as far as frequent RP) Rpers signed up and backed off pretty much right away.

several well known (as far as frequent RP) Rpers signed up and backed off pretty much right away.

Yeah, I remember. Generic Empire was going to be our first United States.

Ah, the memories. *feels old*

Didn't RB sign up to play as some Central American country in the very beginning?

RB also recently signed up to play as Zaire, but the GB leaving fiasco screwed it up.

RB also recently signed up to play as Zaire, but the GB leaving fiasco screwed it up.

well the fact that Zaire is still Belgian Congo may have had something to do with it as well

well the fact that Zaire is still Belgian Congo may have had something to do with it as well

India was still British India when I joined :).

well the fact that Zaire is still Belgian Congo may have had something to do with it as well

Transvaal and Oranj Vrystaat were in the process of getting pwned by the British when I signed up.

I, Arboles del Fuego, would like to join as greece. :)

can i be greece?

several well known (as far as frequent RP) Rpers signed up and backed off pretty much right away.

They must miss their NS uber-tech, uber-stats, uber-population, and uber-wankage that they won't have in E20. ;)

I'm glad we have the E20 community as it is. A lot of good reasonable RP'ers here that I am damn proud to be RP'ing with and also glad to call as friends.

I heartily agree with Sharina. Kilan and I tryed to havea war on mainstream NS and it has degraded into a bunch of larger tech and number wanking nations shooting missles around and tromping roughshod over us. Same thing happened with our old neighboring nations, too... *sigh*

I'm glad we have the E20 community as it is. A lot of good reasonable RP'ers here that I am damn proud to be RP'ing with and also glad to call as friends.

I second that! I really haven't had an RP experience quite as good as I have had with this group. Thats why when I returned to NS after my brief hiatus, this is the first and only RP I came back to.

I heartily agree with Sharina. Kilan and I tryed to havea war on mainstream NS and it has degraded into a bunch of larger tech and number wanking nations shooting missles around and tromping roughshod over us. Same thing happened with our old neighboring nations, too... *sigh*

Yeah. "OMG! I shootzors you wiht a bijillion missilzs!"

if war breaks out between the Scandic Union and Germany (and spreads), I can referee it. The US plans to sit this one out unless someone uses nuclear weapons.

I have the perfect computer game to handle it (Operational Art of War.. even has the right aircraft available)

That would be much appreciated GB. I can't really be seen to be neutral if my ally is involved, plus I have a lot of schoolwork and exam revision for the end of course exams coming up (mostly in June) so if you feel like coming back any time, you'd be welcome to.

Yeah, I remember. Generic Empire was going to be our first United States.

Ah, the memories. *feels old*

Indeed, I was originally the Irish revolutionaries. I suceeded Sarzonia as the UK just in time for the death of Victoria (and the defeat of the Boers!).

I, Arboles del Fuego, would like to join as greece.

I have no problems with a new player joinign up. Though perhaps we should implement a probation period like we did last time.

Sharina could you add the following NPCs to the front page please?

The Gambia
Ghana
Senegal
Togo

And that Nigeria is being played by Kilani and the news thread is here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10667247

cheers.

Sharina could you add the following NPCs to the front page please?

The Gambia
Ghana
Senegal
Togo

And that Nigeria is being played by Kilani and the news thread is here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10667247

cheers.

Will do. Thanks for your notification. :)

Added all these to the main post.

Anything else that needs to be added, edited, or deleted?

Added all these to the main post.

Anything else that needs to be added, edited, or deleted?

If you could add Russia and its news thread:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10667545

If you could add Russia and its news thread:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10667545

Added.

Anything else from anyone?

Added.

Anything else from anyone?

Italy is an NPC as Arcanea is no long playing.

Middle Snu has moved to Burma (I think) so Colombia and the FNS are the same thing.

Amestria is no longer playing as Portugal (again, I think)

I second that! I really haven't had an RP experience quite as good as I have had with this group. Thats why when I returned to NS after my brief hiatus, this is the first and only RP I came back to.

I mean, there is no imitating E20 in my opinion. 21C and some of the other alt-history and Real-life Earths are nice, but there is just no substitute.

Added all these to the main post.

Anything else that needs to be added, edited, or deleted?

Egypt's news thread still isn't up there. Here it is. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10621326)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10669111#post10669111

New Korean News Thread

I definetly think this is the best RP ever, and only 1 of 2 i participate in (E2 is the other) Earth II is nice and all, but its different, and the realism here is far better. I mean, in E2, TLS plays as Carthage, which never fell, neither did Rome, and I, originally as Bahrain, managed to dominate the middle east.

Also (I know some of this is for other threads), I'll have an intelligence agency in '53, I have V2 rocket tech, Lv.4 chem. weapons tech and Palestine has fallen victim to Pan-Arabism (needs removed from NPC list).

Also (I know some of this is for other threads), I'll have an intelligence agency in '53, I have V2 rocket tech, Lv.4 chem. weapons tech and Palestine has fallen victim to Pan-Arabism (needs removed from NPC list).

Duly noted, you'll be added to the list in Jan. 1953.

I definetly think this is the best RP ever, and only 1 of 2 i participate in (E2 is the other) Earth II is nice and all, but its different, and the realism here is far better. I mean, in E2, TLS plays as Carthage, which never fell, neither did Rome, and I, originally as Bahrain, managed to dominate the middle east.

After E20, I find it hards to do other RP's after this.

hopefully we'll start again

hopefully we'll start again

Nah. We'll just keep going. Forever.

It will never stop, muahahaha!

Nah. We'll just keep going. Forever.

It will never stop, muahahaha!

*imagines the world in a giant ice-age 200 years in the future*


Wwwooooaaaahhhhh......

Fixed player list and added links to Egypt and new Korean news threads.

Added "Advancements to Tech Level 7.5" to the E20 main post.

Can I join this thread?

Where's Warta Endor? If he doesn't show up soon, I'm going to have to unilaterally try and set the borders of the UIR; which prolly no one wants.

Here are the maps I have concerning border negotiations:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/Thelightningstar/Negotiations.png

Anything Dark Green is undisputed UIR territory, and anything light-orange is undisputed FAS (Light Blue is just a background color). Blue is the Western Federal Territory, which remained with the Federal Government when war broke out, and therefore was not part of the cease-fire deal. Red is territory that makes up two Republics that did not join the UIR; Baluchistan (which is the southern red territory) and the Vadakh Corridor (part of the Republic of Ladakh). Light Green is land in what used to be India under the controll of the UIR (it was part of Pakhtunistan, therefore is subject to the cease-fire agreement).

Here is the proposal by the FAS: All of the blue territory on the map shall be given to the UIR in exchange for the red territory and green territory. The land exchange is about equal, and the UIR gets the added bonus of controlling Irans oil reserves.

the helinic prime minister has issued a bill for compulsary military service for citizens between the ages of 18 and 30