NationStates Jolt Archive

I dont believe in God because I find the whole concept ridiculous and implausible, the idea of someone losing their faith over an unfortunate incident is almost as bad as me becoming a born again.
Excellent point. *bows*

True. The god of the OT was all about love through liberal applications of burning, sacrifice & genocide.
The god of the NT - the Jesus god - was more about trying not to kill eachother & not being a total arse.

The god of the Bible can hardly be described as anything but a staggeringly evil lunatic. Still, I fail to see what good it would do to replace it with something else. America isn't some nice, loving nation. No nation is. If god existed, I'd be in favour of putting it to death, but that's all. No new gods, please.

I wonder what Halo thinks about how that dichotomy reflects on what the bible really is...

As to God and America, I imagine the people here who claim to speak for God will either be the destruction of the country, or a sad footnote in history.

You keep disputing my coherency; perhaps you should more rigorously attend to your own. What did I say about Sodom? Nothing.

Now, you said that none of those things are in the Bible, now you backpedal and say I might be right. So which is it? Not too much certainty in your faith, or your arguments. I ask you again, are you sure? Shall I quote you again or are you prepared to admit you may not know as much about the bible as you claim?

Halo, you are the kind of christian that believes that stoning a child could ever be "in order". No wonder you don't mind all the blood your God likes to deal in.

For the last time, I don't believe god is doing a "shity job", because I don't believe its real. But if it were real, would it be doing such a "shity job" (your words)?
There was no specific killing of a gay person just because they were gay. I think killing a child for any crime is horrible but back then some crimes were considered so bad that even a child could be killed. It is history, get used to it. Pluse in other cultures there were even worse punishments for lesser crimes wether you were a kid or not. And I am sure that there was never a child actually killed for a crime in the Bible... Not any that I remember anyway... I think I remember what you are talking about with the daughter thing and slavery but if I remember right it was only a story told by Jesus to make a point about something. Eh, its been a couple of years since I read the bible last. God doesn't just deal in blood because he wants to kill something... Compared to other gods my God looks like a cuddly little teddy bear. When I said those things werent in the Bible I meant that they weren't in there in the context you said them. I should have been more clear with what I said but so should you have.

Heh...in the Mormon doctrine, God has a wife somehwere...imagine how she feels...
How many of them? :D

BTW, occasionally you have an "s" in quoting certain posters' responses. Por que?

Excellent point. *bows*
NO that is not an excellent point... He doesn't even know what to be born again means. You are so desperate to find a reason to put christians down that you are coming up with even more retarded points than those before you in this thread did... No offence btw,

EDIT: Straughn I'm soo hurt I didn't get an honorary mention as well :PAh, please forgive. I'm still rereading from about 20 pages back. I don't actually know you (*) yet, as you're listed as a "just joined/new member" at 36 count AOTP ... ;)
I'll get caught up. With a little luck, anyway.
This post is pretty good though. *bows*

I wonder what Halo thinks about how that dichotomy reflects on what the bible really is...

As to God and America, I imagine the people here who claim to speak for God will either be the destruction of the country, or a sad footnote in history.
Are you people seriously insane?????? LOOK AT ANY SOCIETY IN HISTORY! EVERYTIME THEY HAVE TRYED TO REMOVE ANY GOD ESPECIALLY THE CHRISTIAN/JEWISH GOD THAT SOCIETY HAS COMPLETELY FALLEN APART! If we remove God from america we will be wiped off the face of the planet within 100 years! OMG.. You people are so ignorant!

NO that is not an excellent point... He doesn't even know what to be born again means. You are so desperate to find a reason to put christians down that you are coming up with even more retarded points than those before you in this thread did... No offence btw,
What? Are you real? Unless you are the same person,
YOU
DON'T
KNOW
whether s/he knows what "being born again" means.
Newsflash- you're only BORN ONCE. ONE TIME. Is that CLEAR?
Everything else is a subversion and a shirking of responsibility to your action, a way of bereaving yourself of psychological responsibility for both your successes AND your failures on a moral level. So presume to argue with someone else about that kind of jazz - it's Sunday, isn't there a remedial school you could be atttending?
No offense, btw.


If you're born again, does that mean you've got two belly buttons? ;)

Personally, I think this is a battle that will never be won. God's existence cannot be proven by faith alone, yet its existence cannot be disproven by modern science.
Excellent post. *bows*

There was no specific killing of a gay person just because they were gay.
That is listed, in the bible, as a reason to kill somebody. You are the most biblically illiterate "christian" I've ever met.


I think killing a child for any crime is horrible but back then some crimes were considered so bad that even a child could be killed. It is history, get used to it.
Its supposedly the history of the laws god gave to people. YOU said they should be followed, in "every part" of the bible. Don't write it off as history if you want us to believe you when you say its Gods law and should be followed (which you did say, go back and look).


Pluse in other cultures there were even worse punishments for lesser crimes wether you were a kid or not.

So, I can be a rapist as long as my neighbor is a serial rapist? Can I beat my wife if another guy kills his? Why do I get the feeling you won't understand these questions...


And I am sure that there was never a child actually killed for a crime in the Bible... Not any that I remember anyway...

Well, your scriptural "memory" is pretty vague for somebody who claims to live his life by the bible.


I think I remember what you are talking about with the daughter thing and slavery but if I remember right it was only a story told by Jesus to make a point about something.

Okay, we've established you aren't a bible expert (you just live by it without really learning it much), but I would hope even you would know that Jesus as a living character didn't show up until the New Testament...I'll give you a hint...check around Exodus, where you pulled the Ten Commandments from. But this time, read around a bit more...


Eh, its been a couple of years since I read the bible last. God doesn't just deal in blood because he wants to kill something... Compared to other gods my God looks like a cuddly little teddy bear. When I said those things werent in the Bible I meant that they weren't in there in the context you said them. I should have been more clear with what I said but so should you have.

Yeah, you didn't have to mention that you don't read the bible a lot. That fact is starkly evident in most of what you say. As to other Gods, would you say your study of comparative religion has been as thorough as your examination of your own?

As to your last part, which I bolded, I want you to think hard about bearing false witness. If your religion is right, what will your god think of that, truly? Don't answer, just remember it in your quiet moments. You said there was "nothing in the bible" about any of that. Now that you realize somebody might go look in a bible and prove you a liar, you say you meant "nothing in the context you said them". What context was that?

What? Are you real? Unless you are the same person,
YOU
DON'T
KNOW
whether s/he knows what "being born again" means.
Newsflash- you're only BORN ONCE. ONE TIME. Is that CLEAR?
Everything else is a subversion and a shirking of responsibility to your action, a way of bereaving yourself of psychological responisibility for both your successes AND your failures on a moral level. So presume to argue with someone else about that kind of jazz - it's Sunday, isn't there a remedial school you could be atttending?
No offense, btw.


If you're born again, does that mean you've got two belly buttons? ;)My lord I wish you would know what you are talking about before you make a point! Being born again doesn't mean physically put back in the womb and coming out agian... It means that as soon as you accept God and Jesus your spirit is bathed in the glory of heaven and is, as Jesus was when he came back to life, born again. That is what we call it. It doesn't mean it is literal and physical... If you had an ounce of common sence you would know that. Sorry I am being kinda sarchastic toward you but the people that come in here and make points that make as little sence as yours did just really pisses me off.

There was no specific killing of a gay person just because they were gay. <Snipped bollox>"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

"If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness." (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

"All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense." (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

... The OT is full of grotesque stuff. I could spam you to death with quotes, but it's easier for you to simply read the OT. Try Leviticus - he was a right bastard.

Please note that I'm not judging Christians by their scripture. I don't think it's even possible to adhere completely to the Bible (though it orders you to).

Ah, please forgive. I'm still rereading from about 20 pages back. I don't actually know you (*) yet, as you're listed as a "just joined/new member" at 36 count AOTP ...
I'll get caught up. With a little luck, anyway.
This post is pretty good though. *bows*M3h.. I'm TSw (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/member.php?u=680206) from a few months back. I went on vacation & my nation got deated.
... I feel so insignificant now :( (j/k)

If you're born again, does that mean you've got two belly buttons? ;)

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! That was great! Did Adam and Eve have bellybuttons? (sorry)

Anyways, Halo, just a little piece of friendly advice, something I have noticied on these threads. If you want people to take your post seriously and what you are saying with anything more than a grain of salt, don't resort to calling people "ignorant", "seriuosly insane" and their points "retarded" no matter how venhemently you may disagree.

EDIT: Just read your above post...nevermind.

My mom says I'll be in limbo. Can someone tell me what that is, exactly?
It's a place of eternal waiting instead of eternal suffering, apparently.
Not particularly eternal persay, but a place where your a person with indecision towards a subservience to a "higher power" or to a "lower power" allots you all the "time" outside regular causal circumstance to concoct a direction.
Further, in recognizing the threat this kind of thinking posed to power structure, the Catholic church last year publicly and policy-wise disavowed its members to embrace the idea.

Are you people seriously insane?????? LOOK AT ANY SOCIETY IN HISTORY! EVERYTIME THEY HAVE TRYED TO REMOVE ANY GOD ESPECIALLY THE CHRISTIAN/JEWISH GOD THAT SOCIETY HAS COMPLETELY FALLEN APART! If we remove God from america we will be wiped off the face of the planet within 100 years! OMG.. You people are so ignorant!

Actually, Rome fell after it converted to Christianity...tell me, since I'm so ignorant, if I were to wander over to the History Department and inquire as to the correlation between the religion and survival of societies, do you think they might find several civilizations that outlasted other "christian" civilizations?

Is your knowledge of anthropology and history as stunning as your theology?

Careful with that word "ignorant", Halo. I'm no genius, but I might just be as educated as you are, don't you maybe think?

It's a place of eternal waiting instead of eternal suffering, apparently.I thought Limbo was an oldschool term for oblivion?

My lord I wish you would know what you are talking about before you make a point! Being born again doesn't mean physically put back in the womb and coming out agian... It means that as soon as you accept God and Jesus your spirit is bathed in the glory of heaven and is, as Jesus was when he came back to life, born again. That is what we call it. It doesn't mean it is literal and physical... If you had an ounce of common sence you would know that. Sorry I am being kinda sarchastic toward you but the people that come in here and make points that make as little sence as yours did just really pisses me off.

Oh, Jesus Christ with a dead hooker in his trunk, would somebody please take Halo aside and explain to him what the wink smiley means?

That is listed, in the bible, as a reason to kill somebody. You are the most biblically illiterate "christian" I've ever met.


Its supposedly the history of the laws god gave to people. YOU said they should be followed, in "every part" of the bible. Don't write it off as history if you want us to believe you when you say its Gods law and should be followed (which you did say, go back and look).



So, I can be a rapist as long as my neighbor is a serial rapist? Can I beat my wife if another guy kills his? Why do I get the feeling you won't understand these questions...



Well, your scriptural "memory" is pretty vague for somebody who claims to live his life by the bible.



Okay, we've established you aren't a bible expert (you just live by it without really learning it much), but I would hope even you would know that Jesus as a living character didn't show up until the New Testament...I'll give you a hint...check around Exodus, where you pulled the Ten Commandments from. But this time, read around a bit more...



Yeah, you didn't have to mention that you don't read the bible a lot. That fact is starkly evident in most of what you say. As to other Gods, would you say your study of comparative religion has been as thorough as your examination of your own?

As to your last part, which I bolded, I want you to think hard about bearing false witness. If your religion is right, what will your god think of that, truly? Don't answer, just remember it in your quiet moments. You said there was "nothing in the bible" about any of that. Now that you realize somebody might go look in a bible and prove you a liar, you say you meant "nothing in the context you said them". What context was that?
Have you ever read the King James Bible from Cover to cover? I didn't think so... I have... It has been a year since I last finished it though so I am a little rusty. If you had read the Bible and knew what you were talking about you would know that most of the OT rules and laws were retracted by Jesus's message of forgivness. so that just about kills all your above points... All I have left to say is that you sound like a typical extream left liberal who wants to kill all christians and and worship casual sex and haveing all the abortions you want. I'm sorry but I have to do my home work so that I can learn more about my world... not that I have to.. I am already smarter than you are most likly...

It's a place of eternal waiting instead of eternal suffering, apparently.
Not particularly eternal persay, but a place where your a person with indecision towards a subservience to a "higher power" or to a "lower power" allots you all the "time" outside regular causal circumstance to concoct a direction.
Further, in recognizing the threat this kind of thinking posed to power structure, the Catholic church last year publicly and policy-wise disavowed its members to embrace the idea.

A small footnote to add- in the Catholic religion, people pray for thos in limbo, or purgatory. Enough people pray for you, and you pray as well, realize where you went long, then you will be able to enter heaven. A rather ridiculous and somewhat contradictorary (to the Bible, anyways) concept, IMHO.

Sorry about my comments about you as a person... I am a sarcastic person by nature so I don't really mean those...

My lord I wish you would know what you are talking about before you make a point! Being born again doesn't mean physically put back in the womb and coming out agian... It means that as soon as you accept God and Jesus your spirit is bathed in the glory of heaven and is, as Jesus was when he came back to life, born again. That is what we call it. It doesn't mean it is literal and physical... If you had an ounce of common sence you would know that. Sorry I am being kinda sarchastic toward you but the people that come in here and make points that make as little sence as yours did just really pisses me off.
Sense isn't something that can be made,
it's something that must be sensed.
You don't have a new soul and your sins are not erased. The difference is you have changed your attitude as to your ability to please what you think is a higher power.
I don't really owe you any lower-brow explanations, and you're wasting time thinking that your explanations are some sort of revelation to me.
Le sens commun n'est pas si commun.
Again, someone who invokes giant invisible brats who'll strike us down at their whim, for sake of something unprovable and desperate, is one of the last people who should presume to lecture others about "common sense".
Don't be sorry about it, FIX it. That's part of the idea of being "born-again", isn't it?
Besides, i don't really care if you're pissed off. What i care about is logical discourse. You don't like what i say, look it up. That's the challenge.
Otherwise, you don't know me personally, so it's basically your ego getting in the way.
Have fun.

Sorry about my comments about you as a person... I am a sarcastic person by nature so I don't really mean those...
Don't worry about being sarcastic - it's part and parcel for this place.
I certainly am.
I appreciate your apology though. I guess the difference is the nature of insult that we give to each other here (we as in all posters).
I'm not the type to invoke a mod over it, at least.

Have you ever read the King James Bible from Cover to cover? I didn't think so... I have... It has been a year since I last finished it though so I am a little rusty. If you had read the Bible and knew what you were talking about you would know that most of the OT rules and laws were retracted by Jesus's message of forgivness. so that just about kills all your above points... All I have left to say is that you sound like a typical extream left liberal who wants to kill all christians and and worship casual sex and haveing all the abortions you want. I'm sorry but I have to do my home work so that I can learn more about my world... not that I have to.. I am already smarter than you are most likly...

<big sigh>

For all the non-christians out there, just to let you know, we are NOT all like this.
Dude, you are giving us all bad names. And you wonder why non-christians think we are all freaks and closed-minded and horrible to carry on a debate with.

A small footnote to add- in the Catholic religion, people pray for thos in limbo, or purgatory. Enough people pray for you, and you pray as well, realize where you went long, then you will be able to enter heaven. A rather ridiculous and somewhat contradictorary (to the Bible, anyways) concept, IMHO.
I think that's why they decided to drop it. Too many loopholes. Kind of like the "baby death scenario".
*nods*

Have you ever read the King James Bible from Cover to cover? I didn't think so... I have... It has been a year since I last finished it though so I am a little rusty. If you had read the Bible and knew what you were talking about you would know that most of the OT rules and laws were retracted by Jesus's message of forgivness.

Then why did you say we should obey everything everywhere in the bible? Don't confuse "reading" with "reading with understanding". I'm sure you could get through a text by Kant, but at the end, I doubt you'd be autonomous...


so that just about kills all your above points... All I have left to say is that you sound like a typical extream left liberal who wants to kill all christians and and worship casual sex and haveing all the abortions you want. I'm sorry but I have to do my home work so that I can learn more about my world... not that I have to.. I am already smarter than you are most likly...
[/QUOTE]

Do you understand that people can go back and read your posts? Your bits about "maybe I remember this" and "something about that" and all your ham-handed contradictions and clumsy evasions?

Again, read with understanding. I've repeatedly and clearly said that I get along with several christians, including my wife and several people on this board. So to say that I want to kill all christians is more false witness from Halo...

Do your homework, but your capacity for learning about the world is dubious, at this point.

As to you being smarter, I accept your challenge. Let's examine and agree upon a mutual definition of intelligence and a way to quantify it, then make a comparison.

Sorry about my comments about you as a person... I am a sarcastic person by nature so I don't really mean those...

To whom is this addressed?

I think that's why they decided to drop it. Too many loopholes. Kind of like the "baby death scenario".
*nods*


Yup (from what i understand). which is so ironic in a way. Did all the cardinals and pope and such get ina room and say "Let's just drop this belief that we have held for hundreds of years because a lot of people don't like it." One of the reasons why i disdain "organized" religious sects, too much man-made bull.

I thought Limbo was an oldschool term for oblivion?
I thought it was that irritatingly catchy dance where Chubby Checker wiggles around and you slide under poles!
Who wants an eternity of that?!?


As for "oblivion" - that would be contradictory to waiting (think:oblivi-ous)
Seeing as how, in not making any decisions nor being ABLE to make any, you are essentially spiritually dead as well. That's even more nothingness than hell or heaven would be.
I'm not sure if there's scripture or some other line that'll clarify, but you may be right. I should probably ask Grave_n_idle.

<big sigh>

For all the non-christians out there, just to let you know, we are NOT all like this.
Dude, you are giving us all bad names. And you wonder why non-christians think we are all freaks and closed-minded and horrible to carry on a debate with.

Don't worry, MadmCurie, you aren't alone here as an admirable religious person. I've referenced Dempubliscents, Jocabia, and I'm sure there are others.

Unfortunately, we've also got Halo and NwN Playaz, The Keyi, Sons of Tarsonis, Corneliu...

<big sigh>

For all the non-christians out there, just to let you know, we are NOT all like this.
Dude, you are giving us all bad names. And you wonder why non-christians think we are all freaks and closed-minded and horrible to carry on a debate with.Don't worry hon, we know - just promise you woon't suddenly get overly offended if we generalise a bit too broardly ;)

Halo and NwN Playaz I get the impression that you should be the last person arguing scripture here. Everyone seems to have a far firmer grasp of your Holy Book that you do. And.. Trust me on this; most non-Christians have had to listen to so much bollox over the years, that you can be quite sure every one have read the Bible cover to cover at least once.

Interestingly, it seems most atheists have far more knowledge of Christianity than your average Christian.

Yup (from what i understand). which is so ironic in a way. Did all the cardinals and pope and such get ina room and say "Let's just drop this belief that we have held for hundreds of years because a lot of people don't like it." One of the reasons why i disdain "organized" religious sects, too much man-made bull.
I think it was much like that, especially given the current strong political underpinnings of the fundamentalist movement in politics of late.
Perhaps the Council of Nicea is a good reference to this kind of behaviour.

Yup (from what i understand). which is so ironic in a way. Did all the cardinals and pope and such get ina room and say "Let's just drop this belief that we have held for hundreds of years because a lot of people don't like it." One of the reasons why i disdain "organized" religious sects, too much man-made bull.

Interestingly, as I understand it, the current Pope had, as his previous job in the church, a position that governed the mechanism by which various doctrines are revised, developed, dropped, added, or emphasized.

In my wife's church, the top guys decide it arbitrarily. They've done some good things, like letting blacks into the priesthood (they were kept out until the 1970's), and taking a lot of the death imagery out of the little temple loyalty oaths. And when you ask about any change, they can just say "God told us to. Its like a course correction".

Funny thing...I grew up brain-washed by my parents into the Christian religion. A few years ago, some things happened that began opening my eyes. Just recently, I decided that I'm not going to waste my life wondering if there's a god out there and serving him/her.

Life is just that, life. There is no afterlife. It's just what it is. People look for meaning to their existence, and what greater meaning can there be than to have been created by a god?

You really wanna blow your mind, ask yourself: "if God is so powerful, why did he cause us pain and suffering? Couldn't he have just created us in Heaven and saved us the whole crapshoot that we call life?" That would have served his proclaimed purpose in our creation.

And while we're on the subject of Heaven vs Life, why is that Christians are so willing to tell me whenever bad shit happens (and it seems to happen quite a bit to me) that I should just be thankful I'm alive. Let me explain something: If I wasnt alive, and I were to go to Heaven, would I not be better off than I am here, in this life? By extrapolation, why dont all the Christians go commit suicide so they can go to Heaven - since the only unforgiveable sin is to not accept Christ.

As to those who say that God will help you through whatever trials you have in life, and claim that by giving their life to God their life suddenly became great: Google for "effortless effort." You'd be surprised what you'll find about what can happen when one stops trying to control everything in their life - and it doesnt require believing in a higher being to accomplish it.

I still don't get why everyone dished on "Ten Miles High"... I liked it.

Everything up to (two versions of) Further Down the Spiral was fantastic, and fragile was a little weak. Luckily, we SEEM to be seeing a bit of a return to form now ("Only"... is kind of like the 'new' Down In It, I think.)

The Aphex Twin contribution was just unbelieveably fantastic though, you are right. "At the Heart of It All" is well up there on my list of favourite tracks.
:fluffle:
You are *SO* awesome.
"At the Heart of It All" is one of his TRULY evocative tracks. I see myself in the exact same place every time, a place i don't think i've ever been (physically)
I am near what appears to be a lone bonsai on a rocky coast, enough light to see a little bit but a steady, lightly wind-driven rain coming in on me and my surroundings at just a little bit of an angle. I am waiting not only for something to happen in the near future, but i am actually deciding to commit to a course of action that will result in me remembering that cliff as my last solace.

Every time.
"A Warm Place" also evokes something that feels similar but my response varies. My response to "At the Heart of It All" never does.
I also LOVE the buildup on "Eraser". One of his best.

Don't know about you, but I hold the Kingdom of God in my hand right now. Your desires for greater than that will prove your undoing, I fear.
:eek:
Typing with one hand, i suspect. ;)

Then why did you say we should obey everything everywhere in the bible? Don't confuse "reading" with "reading with understanding". I'm sure you could get through a text by Kant, but at the end, I doubt you'd be autonomous...




Do you understand that people can go back and read your posts? Your bits about "maybe I remember this" and "something about that" and all your ham-handed contradictions and clumsy evasions?

Again, read with understanding. I've repeatedly and clearly said that I get along with several christians, including my wife and several people on this board. So to say that I want to kill all christians is more false witness from Halo...

Do your homework, but your capacity for learning about the world is dubious, at this point.

As to you being smarter, I accept your challenge. Let's examine and agree upon a mutual definition of intelligence and a way to quantify it, then make a comparison.


ehem, ok fine I sound like John Kerry at a presidential debate... Fine... lol <--- If you don't understand that sorry... lol

Sorry... Once again I didn't mean to start insulting... I am not that contradictory you are simply making points that I respond to in different ways. If I sound like I am contradicting myself it is only becuase I am clarifying something I said earlier and that may make it have a slightly different meaning...

I will admit that I did not remember that the laws stated in leviticus were so strict but I never ment that we were supposed to follow those... To clarify my position I mean follow the teachings of Jesus because those are the ones that god has shown christians to use. Jesus stated that himself. and stuff...

So sorry if I was confuzing to you. btw, I see a couple of you are flaming me for not being open minded. I am extreamly open minded! I believe what I believe for right now if you can show me enough evidence to make me change my beliefs I will and I will tell you when I do. but none of you have been able to do that so... yea...

Don't worry hon, we know - just promise you woon't suddenly get overly offended if we generalise a bit too broardly ;)

Thanks for realising that, and you too Saint Curie. I've got a thick skin. It just gets irritating to see that. (not the generalisations, just the overall, "zealousness" from certain christians on this board. The chest-thumping, the "i've read the bible more than you have" stuff...it just gets old after awhile)


Interestingly, it seems most atheists have far more knowledge of Christianity than your average Christian.

Funny enough, most Christians have learned through catechisim classes, which, sadly enough is made up of nothing more than a bunch religious dogma and a smattering of the more well-known proverbs. It is rare to find those that have studied the Bible as a "text" or a piece of literature.

And while we're on the subject of Heaven vs Life, why is that Christians are so willing to tell me whenever bad shit happens (and it seems to happen quite a bit to me) that I should just be thankful I'm alive. Let me explain something: If I wasnt alive, and I were to go to Heaven, would I not be better off than I am here, in this life? By extrapolation, why dont all the Christians go commit suicide so they can go to Heaven - since the only unforgiveable sin is to not accept Christ.

As to those who say that God will help you through whatever trials you have in life, and claim that by giving their life to God their life suddenly became great: Google for "effortless effort." You'd be surprised what you'll find about what can happen when one stops trying to control everything in their life - and it doesnt require believing in a higher being to accomplish it.These are the only obvious reasons why the Biblical god would choose to ban non-religious murders & suicides. Otherwise all loving parents would immediately kill their offspring while the infants are still somewhat innocent.

Christianity is a death cult... As I've said many times before :p

:eek:
Typing with one hand, i suspect. ;)

aw, dude, no, dude, aw, no...

You are neither a philosopher nor a thinker, only a puppet with the arm of the church up your ass wiggling your lips.
Oooooh, sigworthy. *bows*

aw, dude, no, dude, aw, no...
Admittedly, the discourse here is quite masturbatory in the mental and spiritual sense. Apparently, Kamsaki is able to go a step further than some of us.
I'm not gonna hold them back! Excelsior! :)

To whom is this addressed?
everyone I insult including you. :rolleyes:

I have not actually insulted anyone untill my last few posts though...

So sorry if I was confuzing to you. btw, I see a couple of you are flaming me for not being open minded. I am extreamly open minded! I believe what I believe for right now if you can show me enough evidence to make me change my beliefs I will and I will tell you when I do. but none of you have been able to do that so... yea...

Really? A few pages back, you believed something about the Old Testament, and now you're backpedalling all over it.

You've been presented with a lot of evidence; you just respond with "Oh, uh, I didn't mean that, I meant, uh, this".

Honestly, Halo, your position has been demonstrated as untennable on several points.

I respect everyone's right to amend their arguments, but you've bailed on several emphatic, declarative statements without owning up to it.

Admittedly, the discourse here is quite masturbatory in the mental and spiritual sense. Apparently, Kamsaki is able to go a step further than some of us.
I'm not gonna hold them back! Excelsior! :)
I wonder whether I should laugh or wince?

ehem, ok fine I sound like John Kerry at a presidential debate... Fine... lol <--- If you don't understand that sorry...
Hey, all this spiritual talk aside,
John Kerry utterly kicked Bush's arse f*cking sideways in the first two debates. Even the Bushies had to agree. Bush did better in the third because he didn't get hooked on having to explain things in a logical fashion, nor did he have to deal with those bothersome "facts".
Is that really the angle you're shooting for?

I wonder whether I should laugh or wince?
There are some frontiers that are better as mysteries than experiences. *nods solemnly*

everyone I insult including you. :rolleyes:

I have not actually insulted anyone untill my last few posts though...

Many people consider it an insult to be told "If you don't believe what I believe, you will be burned forever".

Really? A few pages back, you believed something about the Old Testament, and now you're backpedalling all over it.

You've been presented with a lot of evidence; you just respond with "Oh, uh, I didn't mean that, I meant, uh, this".

Honestly, Halo, your position has been demonstrated as untennable on several points.

I respect everyone's right to amend their arguments, but you've bailed on several emphatic, declarative statements without owning up to it.
Did you read my entire last post? I explained how adding to arguments can change what the initial meaning of a statement could mean. I have taken some off the table completely because they were stupid but oh well... You are'nt completely innocent of it either...

Corny, read what I posted and then write a reply to it.

Mohammad Atta thought this exact same thing, maybe you two can share a room up there.
Ouchouchouchouchoohouchouchouchouch

Hey, all this spiritual talk aside,
John Kerry utterly kicked Bush's arse f*cking sideways in the first two debates. Even the Bushies had to agree. Bush did better in the third because he didn't get hooked on having to explain things in a logical fashion, nor did he have to deal with those bothersome "facts".
Is that really the angle you're shooting for?

Its funny. Despite Halo and NwN Playaz erroneous assumption that I'm an "extreme liberal that wants to kill all christians", I'm actually fiscally fairly conservative.

These are the only obvious reasons why the Biblical god would choose to ban non-religious murders & suicides. Otherwise all loving parents would immediately kill their offspring while the infants are still somewhat innocent.

Christianity is a death cult... As I've said many times before :p

What's sad is you're right about Christianity being a cult. Anyone who takes a step back and really looks at it and the way Christians talk would understand this. Christian raised children are seriously brain-washed to not think for themselves. This is how they mulitply. Sounds exactly like a cult. They follow their leaders blindly in hopes of reaching heaven...

Many people consider it an insult to be told "If you don't believe what I believe, you will be burned forever".In all my posts I stated what I believe is right but never once did I say that I knew absolutly for sure that my belief is absolutly correct becuase to be honest none of us ever know.

Is anybody but me becoming convinced that Corn-Dog is actually an atheist who enjoys trying to antagonize people in search of intelligent debate?
Well, s/he's never admitted TO ME about being an atheist, but s/he HAS admitted being overtly argumentative for the fun of it, and that they're more moderate IRL.

Did you read my entire last post? I explained how adding to arguments can change what the initial meaning of a statement could mean. I have taken some off the table completely because they were stupid but oh well... You are'nt completely innocent of it either...

Which positions, of either of us, do you consider "stupid" and why?

Do you realize you've gotten to the point where the more biblically knowledgeable christians are having to apologize for you?

Its funny. Despite Halo and NwN Playaz erroneous assumption that I'm an "extreme liberal that wants to kill all christians", I'm actually fiscally fairly conservative.
I've noted that the "liberal" label is doing as well IRL as the "christian integrity" is on this thread.
Bush and his followers are NOT fiscally conservative. That fact is painfully clear.

Have you ever read the King James Bible from Cover to cover? I didn't think so... I have... It has been a year since I last finished it though so I am a little rusty. If you had read the Bible and knew what you were talking about you would know that most of the OT rules and laws were retracted by Jesus's message of forgivness. so that just about kills all your above points... All I have left to say is that you sound like a typical extream left liberal who wants to kill all christians and and worship casual sex and haveing all the abortions you want. I'm sorry but I have to do my home work so that I can learn more about my world... not that I have to.. I am already smarter than you are most likly...

And all I have to say to you is that someone should really slap some sense into you. Stop thinking your the best and you know everything! You clearly don't! And can someone please explain to me...what is so wrong with abortions?? The baby goes through no pain whatsoever!

In all my posts I stated what I believe is right but never once did I say that I knew absolutly for sure that my belief is absolutly correct becuase to be honest none of us ever know.

Really? So why is it that those of us who disagree with you are called "ignorant" and "insane"?

I could accept your apology if I felt it more sincere.

No, I can see that you're very new to our forum.

Corny is genuinely like this, he has been for a long time.

He's the "wrongest person on NS" to coin a term and a phrase.
I originally nicked him "The Great Southern Threadkill", but i have since corrected myself and now grace him with
"Lightning Rod", since he's quite capable of getting people to argue at length.

EDIT:
Also, as The Cat-Tribe and USMC Leathernecks took note, he has a maneuver named after him as well. *nods*

And all I have to say to you is that someone should really slap some sense into you. Stop thinking your the best and you know everything! You clearly don't! And can someone please explain to me...what is so wrong with abortions?? The baby goes through no pain whatsoever!
yea they do its been proven... I know I don't know everything... I have aready appologized for my sarchasm... but yea...

I've noted that the "liberal" label is doing as well IRL as the "christian integrity" is on this thread.
Bush and his followers are NOT fiscally conservative. That fact is painfully clear.

True story. I don't believe in much of the Democrat platform, but the current administration doesn't really follow much of the salient Republican platform, either...

In all my posts I stated what I believe is right but never once did I say that I knew absolutly for sure that my belief is absolutly correct becuase to be honest none of us ever know.
Oh, ye of little faith. You do know the definition of "faith," right? You're killin yourself here, bud. If you're going to believe in something, then BELIEVE in it. In all my religious discussions, I've met one person that TRULY believed in what she'd been taught. Course, she's a PK, so... Give me a few months...lol

yea they do its been proven... I know I don't know everything... I have aready appologized for my sarchasm... but yea...

The baby isn't even old enough to feel it! That's why you can only get an abortion if you're less than three months pregnant.

As I said, I do not know if Purgatory is real or not so how can I say one way or the other if I do not know it exists?
Same critique for heaven, hell, and god, Corneliu. :(

yea they do its been proven... I know I don't know everything... I have aready appologized for my sarchasm... but yea...

Its your process of discourse that's concerning, Halo...you make these broad statements, and when they get clipped by contrary evidence, you "add to change the meaning". Some of that is fine, even necessary, but with you, its habitual.

Also, I think you may not be using the term sarcasm in a communally recognized sense.

You've been abrasive, caustic, insulting, and constantly confuse obstinance with conviction. We all do those things, and I'm glad you say you're sorry. Sarcasm is different, though.

And naturally, you're so adept at making such distinctions...

(above for demonstration only).

Really? So why is it that those of us who disagree with you are called "ignorant" and "insane"?

I could accept your apology if I felt it more sincere.Crap... I am completely backed into a corner by being the only one here arguing my point. I give up... ok. I know more Bible than most blindly following christians but I don't know enough aparently. I have made my points and thats all I can do... Even though you acuse me of backing down. I have done a lot of research but lets face it, I am only 16 so I am out of my leage here so all I can say is God bless you and have fun with out me! :)

I am sorry I say things but don't get insulted... please.

At least you're honest in the character of your belief. Corn thinks repeating his belief over and over constitutes a reasoned argument.
"See in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda."
-Shrubya, Athena Performing Arts Center at Greece Athena Middle and High School Tuesday, May 24, 2005 in Rochester, NY

Oh, ye of little faith. You do know the definition of "faith," right? You're killin yourself here, bud. If you're going to believe in something, then BELIEVE in it. In all my religious discussions, I've met one person that TRULY believed in what she'd been taught. Course, she's a PK, so... Give me a few months...lol

PK...Paladin Knight?

The baby isn't even old enough to feel it! That's why you can only get an abortion if you're less than three months pregnant.
eh, at that stage they may not feel pain but you are still killing a living thing that is growing and forming into a human.

I'm a political scientist myself.
Wha-HAHAHAHAHAHOHOHOHOHAHAHAHAHA!!!
HAHAhoho*SNORT*HAHAHAHAHAHA!!
I can't-Hahahahaha!!!!!

See:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10871864&postcount=2316

Crap... I am completely backed into a corner by being the only one here arguing my point. I give up... ok. I know more Bible than most blindly following christians but I don't know enough aparently. I have made my points and thats all I can do... Even though you acuse me of backing down. I have done a lot of research but lets face it, I am only 16 so I am out of my leage here so all I can say is God bless you and have fun with out me! :)

I am sorry I say things but don't get insulted... please.

You dont get it, do you? We've provided all the evidence you need and yet you continue to blindly follow what you've been taught - right down to "God bless you"

Open your eyes, anyone who follows blindly is truly faithful. I once heard that if you never question your faith and reaffirm your beliefs, then it's not true faith.

All we're doing is trying to point out the fallacies in what you're blindly believing. Instead of giving us any kind of credit, you're simply blowing off what we have to say and then bowing out as gracefully as you can with a shoddy excuse.

PK...Paladin Knight?
Preacher's Kid

Crap... I am completely backed into a corner by being the only one here arguing my point. I give up... ok. I know more Bible than most blindly following christians but I don't know enough aparently. I have made my points and thats all I can do... Even though you acuse me of backing down. I have done a lot of research but lets face it, I am only 16 so I am out of my leage here so all I can say is God bless you and have fun with out me! :)

I am sorry I say things but don't get insulted... please.

No, I'm not saying you're backing down, you're backpedalling. Its different.

And just so you know, I've encountered quite a few christians, and, honestly, you've got the least biblical knowledge of any I've met. Its okay for me to be biblically ignorant, because I'm not a christian, and I did my time in formal religious study.

The problem, Halo, is that reading the bible more won't change you. You've decided what you want to believe, and you will only internalize those things that support what you want to believe. A lot of the other christians here have examined and developed their beliefs to a much firmer level, but you can only do that if you're prepared to jettison some stuff.

What I really dislike is the idea that you must fear your god. Its never made sense to me as to why you would want to be a "god fearing" person. The day you cower at your own god is the day you become a slave. Why yearn for slavery. Why not just live freely instead of saying something like well my wife is atheist so when we die i guess shes just going to go burn in hell for being an unbeliever. Why would God let something like that happen. Why would he have a bond so sacred thrown away cause someone didnt have faith in him

eh, at that stage they may not feel pain but you are still killing a living thing that is growing and forming into a human.

have you ever thought that maybe thats a good thing? maybe that human will end up being a criminal. a mass murderer. a rapist. or maybe they will be the kid who's always being picked on in school and go and commit suicide anyway? what a waste of a life is that?

eh, at that stage they may not feel pain but you are still killing a living thing that is growing and forming into a human.

But, we're sending it to heaven...

Wha-HAHAHAHAHAHOHOHOHOHAHAHAHAHA!!!
HAHAhoho*SNORT*HAHAHAHAHAHA!!
I can't-Hahahahaha!!!!!

See:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10871864&postcount=2316

Breath, dude, breath, its okay...heh, yeah, I know...

Funny thing...I grew up brain-washed by my parents into the Christian religion. A few years ago, some things happened that began opening my eyes. Just recently, I decided that I'm not going to waste my life wondering if there's a god out there and serving him/her.

Life is just that, life. There is no afterlife. It's just what it is. People look for meaning to their existence, and what greater meaning can there be than to have been created by a god?

You really wanna blow your mind, ask yourself: "if God is so powerful, why did he cause us pain and suffering? Couldn't he have just created us in Heaven and saved us the whole crapshoot that we call life?" That would have served his proclaimed purpose in our creation.

And while we're on the subject of Heaven vs Life, why is that Christians areso willing to tell me whenever bad shit happens (and it seems to happen quite a bit to me) that I should just be thankful I'm alive. Let me explain something: If I wasnt alive, and I were to go to Heaven, would I not be better off than I am here, in this life? By extrapolation, why dont all the Christians go commit suicide so they can go to Heaven - since the only unforgiveable sin is to not accept Christ.

As to those who say that God will help you through whatever trials you have in life, and claim that by giving their life to God their life suddenly became great: Google for "effortless effort." You'd be surprised what you'll find about what can happen when one stops trying to control everything in their life - and it doesnt require believing in a higher being to accomplish it.


Thats understandable that you don't believe it, cause you where raised up in it, it happend to me a while ago, until God opened MY eyes to the full and true meaning of life, but let me ask you What have you done to find out if there is a God?, Did you ever seek the right source?


Also, what kind of chruch did you grow up in, cause in some cases as my own i grew up in a catholic chruch, i came up with some crazy ideas about life, was hard into the evolution debate, i got into a load of trouble daily.

Until i went to a True Christian Chruch,Camp, And Campus Service with a Band and speaker.

Probably the way you parents taught you about God was the wrong way, maybe even them were not true christians.

And God has helped me throgh many things, with finding good christian friends, and other times.

Also God did not create evil and suffering, it was because of the willful choice of adem and eve, God didn't make it, God mad everything perfect, Humans are the ones to blame,not God!

Heaven is a reward for our honor that we give to The Lord, it is a place once we accpted Christ into our hearts!, even if there wasn't a Heaven i would still want to honor God! Cause MAN!, IT IS THE BEST.

But like sometimes you doubt if any of it is true, I do all the time it's just the devil playing with your minds.

Ever wonder why Christianity always gets attacked by people?

the answer is simple! the devil doesn't want you to get to heaven! and to live the truth! away from all of the sex, drugs, crime, hate. the devil wants you locked into it, But the Devil has been beaten! over 2000 years ago when Christ hung is head on that cross!

You say you found the answer!Well I say the question has been asked many times,and by many people and God gives the Answer, But we are to blind to see, Accept Christ into your heart just say a pray whenever have a chance "Lord i don't know you and i never have, forgive me of my sin and let me know your heart, let me be filled with you love and joy, amen" It's as simple as that!,You don't have to not sin for a few days befor, God wants you right now! with all the sin in your life, Hey What Do You Have To Lose(well other then everything..lol) it's so clear! Wash the sin off your cloths! AND LIVE THE TRUTH!

AMEN!

But, we're sending it to heaven...

good point. that too.

I've noted that the "liberal" label is doing as well IRL as the "christian integrity" is on this thread.
Bush and his followers are NOT fiscally conservative. That fact is painfully clear.What is it with you Americans & your strange labels?

I thought the republicans were supposed to be fiscally liberal & socally conservative. I'll agree they're simply fiscally corrupt, without any apparent ideological trend, but I'm guessing that's besides the point here.

EDIT: some of the more exstatic JesusSaves rants in this thread reminds me of the good old "This is your brain. This is your brain on Christianity/Drugs" infomercials..

You dont get it, do you? We've provided all the evidence you need and yet you continue to blindly follow what you've been taught - right down to "God bless you"

Open your eyes, anyone who follows blindly is truly faithful. I once heard that if you never question your faith and reaffirm your beliefs, then it's not true faith.

All we're doing is trying to point out the fallacies in what you're blindly believing. Instead of giving us any kind of credit, you're simply blowing off what we have to say and then bowing out as gracefully as you can with a shoddy excuse.
I guess I don't... My pastor has always taught us that questioning is a part of faith... finding what you believe for yourself is truly faith... I question God all the time there was even a year where I as anthiest but I have seen to much of life to believe that we are just an accident so I choose to believe in the Christian faithl.

On the ceiling of hell, it should say "God Loves You".
ANOTHER sigworthy. *bows*

Preacher's Kid

Can they turn undead? Do they have to be Lawful Good?

Preacher's Kid Abilities:

1st Level: Sneak Out of Room After Dark

3rd Level: Hide smell of weed on clothes

8th Level: Experiment with sexuality during undergrad years...

Can they turn undead? Do they have to be Lawful Good?

Preacher's Kid Abilities:

1st Level: Sneak Out of Room After Dark

3rd Level: Hide smell of weed on clothes

8th Level: Experiment with sexuality during undergrad years...

Heh. Dungeons and Dragons. :)

What is it with you Americans & your strange labels?

I thought the republicans were supposed to be fiscally liberal & socally conservative. I'll agree they're simply fiscally corrupt, without any apparent ideological trend, but I'm guessing that's besides the point here.
It is sorta, which is why i haven't been bitching about them much on this particular thread.
The republicans WERE very good at convincing people that they were financially conservative (calling the dems "tax & spend") where they're actually "borrow and spend". Now it's pretty boldfaced obvious that they don't have any particular responsibility (as a group) to anything other than corporate and religious interests. There is a strong, STRONG ideological trend about them, though, which is kind of part & parcel to being "conservative" in public stance.

have you ever thought that maybe thats a good thing? maybe that human will end up being a criminal. a mass murderer. a rapist. or maybe they will be the kid who's always being picked on in school and go and commit suicide anyway? what a waste of a life is that?
But the problem is that you haven't even given it the chance to become that who knows in stead of a murderer you know get another great leader who does tons of good like Ronald Reigan <---- I know I didn't spell it right but oh well...

Breath, dude, breath, its okay...heh, yeah, I know...
Anyone that makes me laugh that much can't be ENTIRELY evil.
Just evil enough, in the right measure.

Thats understandable that you don't believe it, cause you where raised up in it, it happend to me a while ago, until God opened MY eyes to the full and true meaning of life, but let me ask you What have you done to find out if there is a God?, Did you ever seek the right source?


Also, what kind of chruch did you grow up in, cause in some cases as my own i grew up in a catholic chruch, i came up with some crazy ideas about life, was hard into the evolution debate, i got into a load of trouble daily.

Until i went to a True Christian Chruch,Camp, And Campus Service with a Band and speaker.

Probably the way you parents taught you about God was the wrong way, maybe even them were not true christians.

And God has helped me throgh many things, with finding good christian friends, and other times.

Also God did not create evil and suffering, it was because of the willful choice of adem and eve, God didn't make it, God mad everything perfect, Humans are the ones to blame,not God!

Heaven is a reward for our honor that we give to The Lord, it is a place once we accpted Christ into our hearts!, even if there wasn't a Heaven i would still want to honor God! Cause MAN!, IT IS THE BEST.

But like sometimes you doubt if any of it is true, I do all the time it's just the devil playing with your minds.

Ever wonder why Christianity always gets attacked by people?

the answer is simple! the devil doesn't want you to get to heaven! and to live the truth! away from all of the sex, drugs, crime, hate. the devil wants you locked into it, But the Devil has been beaten! over 2000 years ago when Christ hung is head on that cross!

You say you found the answer!Well I say the question has been asked many times,and by many people and God gives the Answer, But we are to blind to see, Accept Christ into your heart just say a pray whenever have a chance "Lord i don't know you and i never have, forgive me of my sin and let me know your heart, let me be filled with you love and joy, amen" It's as simple as that!,You don't have to not sin for a few days befor, God wants you right now! with all the sin in your life, Hey What Do You Have To Lose(well other then everything..lol) it's so clear! Wash the sin off your cloths! AND LIVE THE TRUTH!

AMEN!
OMFG. This is the same crap I used to spout. Let me explain.

I grew up as a missionary kid. My parents met through Campus Crusade for Christ. I lived in Sydney, AUS for a few years because my dad was a graphics designer for Campus Crusade. Upon moving here to the states, I grew up in a babtist church. I was extremely active for a number of years. My parents taught/led weekly bible studies. They also taught for Precept Ministries. I grew up reading nothing but Christian propoganda.

What you call belief, I call a desire to find some meaning for life instead of being willing to accept that it's just life. You say believing in God is just the best, yet you offer no kind of evidence that God has directly influenced your life. Now, let me clarify. Your belief in a higher being might have influenced your life, God has not. There is a difference.

If you honestly want to debate me on this, then please, quit trying to convert me - you cant. You can, however, at least attempt to prove my beliefs to be wrong.

Can they turn undead? Do they have to be Lawful Good?

Preacher's Kid Abilities:

1st Level: Sneak Out of Room After Dark

3rd Level: Hide smell of weed on clothes

8th Level: Experiment with sexuality during undergrad years...Don't forget the Prestige Class Preacher's Horney Sex-Cult Kid

But the problem is that you haven't even given it the chance to become that who knows in stead of a murderer you know get another great leader who does tons of good like Ronald Reigan <---- I know I didn't spell it right but oh well...

Its Reagan.

Look, I like a lot of what he did, too, but there may be a tiny bit of reason to believe that he armed a lot of people who may not share your view on Jesus, Christianity, and the Crusades...

He just maybe might have born a teeny bit of false witness at a few points...

Anyone that makes me laugh that much can't be ENTIRELY evil.
Just evil enough, in the right measure.

Unless, you find evil humorous...

But the problem is that you haven't even given it the chance to become that who knows in stead of a murderer you know get another great leader who does tons of good like Ronald Reigan <---- I know I didn't spell it right but oh well...

we already have enough leaders in the world. most of which suck. plus have u ever considered that that baby might have died the happiest it could have? that it could grow up to find out that it has cancer or something?

Don't forget the Prestige Class Preacher's Horney Sex-Cult Kid

HAHAHAHAHAH!

I have nothign to give, Sim, but I play my drum for you.

But the problem is that you haven't even given it the chance to become that who knows in stead of a murderer you know get another great leader who does tons of good like Ronald Reigan <---- I know I didn't spell it right but oh well...

haha yeah because ronald regan was truly a godsend

Don't forget the Prestige Class Preacher's Horney Sex-Cult Kid
lol

ok well I am off PM me if you want to talk and stuff.

I guess I don't... My pastor has always taught us that questioning is a part of faith... finding what you believe for yourself is truly faith... I question God all the time there was even a year where I as anthiest but I have seen to much of life to believe that we are just an accident so I choose to believe in the Christian faithl.

So, in other words, your faith in God is based on an attempt to find meaning for your life. Gotcha.

we already have enough leaders in the world. most of which suck. plus have u ever considered that that baby might have died the happiest it could have? that it could grow up to find out that it has cancer or something?
or it could cure cancer or something... We have no right to decide wether someone lives or dies before they even have the chance to do anything with the gift of life.

WOW! Nicely done. If aborted babies go to HEaven, why do the right wing neo-con thumpers hate the clinics and the abortion doctors so much?
It detracts from their ability to kill people later on. Kind of like postcount.

lol

ok well I am off PM me if you want to talk and stuff.

Take care.

Just so you know, I wouldn't see a lot of opportunity for productive private discourse with you. I speak with you mainly so that other people reading this can see some of the things you respond with.

No. I can't explain exactly why I feel that way; the belief in God's existence just goes against all my sense of reason and justice.

Everyone dies. The fact that you or a loved one is dying painfully shouldn't lessen your belief in him at all or make you doubt him, or else I suppose you couldn't have been a very firm believer in the first place. I don't mean to sound harsh, but people's devout belief in the Almighty tends to waver once things aren't going their way and events in their lives don't seem as merciful as they think a "merciful" God would have them be.

So, in other words, your faith in God is based on an attempt to find meaning for your life. Gotcha.
ugg, you missed what I was trying to say! Plus faith is the meaning to any life. Any faith!

My Mormon wife tells me there isn't really a Hell in the LDS, just three levels of Heaven.

Evidently, I'm going to the lowest Kindom (terrestrial or telestial or something). But she's allowed to come down from the Celestial Kingdom and visit me, evidently.
Actually, that's kind of sweet. An angelic perspective, it would seem.
No sarcasm on my part.

or it could cure cancer or something... We have no right to decide wether someone lives or dies before they even have the chance to do anything with the gift of life.

Yeah, only God can do that when he ordered the deaths of the children of the enemies of Israel, or killed the firstborn of Egypt to get at the Pharoah.

Killing children is so holy, only God should do it.

or it could cure cancer or something... We have no right to decide wether someone lives or dies before they even have the chance to do anything with the gift of life.

well what if the parents arent ready for it? then what? is it fair to ruin two peoples lives for one? no. or what if the baby was an accident? would you like it if your parents turned to and said 'oh you werent meant to happen. we neither expected nor wanted you.'

Its Reagan.

Look, I like a lot of what he did, too, but there may be a tiny bit of reason to believe that he armed a lot of people who may not share your view on Jesus, Christianity, and the Crusades...

He just maybe might have born a teeny bit of false witness at a few points...No shit... Othere than strenghtening corporate stranglehold of the economy, brutalising a bunch of legitimate democracies, rob a bunch of nations of their resources & leaving the US public sector in shambles, he didn't do a hell of a lot apart from lie about his actions.

well what if the parents arent ready for it? then what? is it fair to ruin two peoples lives for one? no. or what if the baby was an accident? would you like it if your parents turned to and said 'oh you werent meant to happen. we neither expected nor wanted you.'this doesn't deserve a response...:rolleyes:


CONDOM!!!

ugg, you missed what I was trying to say! Plus faith is the meaning to any life. Any faith!

So a person without what you consider faith has a meaningless life?

I thought you were done insulting people.

I don't have any spiritual faith. I just have a happy life with a woman I love, family, friends, my work, my study. All that is meaningless by your statement.

Care to start "adding more to change the meaning", or will you take responsibility for your categorical statements for once?

Intra-glial neurotransmission? Taste-code?

John Edwards?
Papal intervention?
(see Cheech & Chong, Live at the Vatican)

this doesn't deserve a response...:rolleyes:


CONDOM!!!

they're not as strong as they may seem.

No shit... Othere than strenghtening corporate stranglehold of the economy, brutalising a bunch of legitimate democracies, rob a bunch of nations of their resources & leaving the US public sector in shambles, he didn't do a hell of a lot apart from lie about his actions.
Same could be said about Billy Bimbo Clinton :rolleyes:

ugg, you missed what I was trying to say! Plus faith is the meaning to any life. Any faith!Rubbish. I have no 'faith'. I absolutely do not need faith to live.

I ask myself that same question.
Perhaps you should stop with that dead end and START ASKING YOUR GOD!

Same could be said about Billy Bimbo Clinton :rolleyes:

Suppose thats true.

Why, then, is Reagan your example of a great leader if describing him reminds you of Clinton, who you revere somewhat less?

they're not as strong as they may seem.
True but there are a hell of a lot of other birth controll stuffs out there for both men and women so you tell me how if you are careful and have a diaphram, condom and do it at the right time of month and have a BC pill a baby is gona form... and if you are underage its call abstinence people... lol

Papal intervention?
(see Cheech & Chong, Live at the Vatican)

Okay, the fact that you're going back through this monstrous thread makes you MUCH MUCH MAN, Hondo. Unless you're a woman, in which case, you still got a lotta sand, turtledove.

Seriously, Straughn, my hat is off; your stock is up in my book for moxie.

Same could be said about Billy Bimbo Clinton :rolleyes:
Oh, no, you don't get to pull THAT BS. This is an ENTIRELY NEW PARADIGM of nefariousness. Go look it up. Punch it up on the archives here and get back WHEN YOU'RE DONE.
Otherwise, the 'jack is snuffed by summating that you are not particularly correct.

Same could be said about Billy Bimbo Clinton :rolleyes:Yes. He was perhaps half as bad, but on the scale we're talking, it's pretty meaningless. The man was a bastard.

The only redeming trait about him I can think of, is his sexcapades. Was a riot watching you yanks get all insane over something so trivial.

Rubbish. I have no 'faith'. I absolutely do not need faith to live.You do have belief though... You believe and have faith in yourself not needing it. So you do have a type of faith.

True but there are a hell of a lot of other birth controll stuffs out there for both men and women so you tell me how if you are careful and have a diaphram, condom and do it at the right time of month and have a BC pill a baby is gona form... and if you are underage its call abstinence people... lol

While I respect the discipline of abstinence in a sense, I think your perspective may be that of a younger person. Not invalid, just not...experienced.

Okay, the fact that you're going back through this monstrous thread makes you MUCH MUCH MAN, Hondo. Unless you're a woman, in which case, you still got a lotta sand, turtledove.

Seriously, Straughn, my hat is off; your stock is up in my book for moxie.
*bows*
*blushes*
You know, you could mention how i'm the Replacement Jesus ;)
I don't mind the plodding. This is a good enough thread to peruse, when i can.
FTR, i'm a dude. I just like the play that internet anonymity allots.

ugg, you missed what I was trying to say! Plus faith is the meaning to any life. Any faith!

No, faith should not be the meaning to your life. You're searching for some kind of meaning, something to make it all make sense. It just so happens that Christianity has an explanation for everything - well, until science proves otherwise...

Oh, no, you don't get to pull THAT BS. This is an ENTIRELY NEW PARADIGM of nefariousness. Go look it up. Punch it up on the archives here and get back WHEN YOU'RE DONE.
Otherwise, the 'jack is snuffed by summating that you are not particularly correct.

Um, just to be wary, Halo and NwN Playaz has not exactly distinguished himself for thorough and rigorous research skills...

True but there are a hell of a lot of other birth controll stuffs out there for both men and women so you tell me how if you are careful and have a diaphram, condom and do it at the right time of month and have a BC pill a baby is gona form... and if you are underage its call abstinence people... lol

yea, ok, not all couples think that way...some think that one condom and they're safe. but that might not be the case. so back the point. what if they are just of age and the girl gets pregnant accidentally? should they ruin their whole lives for a kid or should she get an abortion?

Suppose thats true.

Why, then, is Reagan your example of a great leader if describing him reminds you of Clinton, who you revere somewhat less?
The way the last poster described Reagan reminded me of Clinton. I for one do not compare the two... Reagan did loads of good for the economy, world peace, and other stuff that I am to lazy to look up nor post...

You do have belief though... You believe and have faith in yourself not needing it. So you do have a type of faith.Now you're just splitting hair. We both know that wasn't what you were referring to.

You do have belief though... You believe and have faith in yourself not needing it. So you do have a type of faith.

We thus establish that faith in Jesus or the Bible is unnecessary for a meaningful life.

yea, ok, not all couples think that way...some think that one condom and they're safe. but that might not be the case. so back the point. what if they are just of age and the girl gets pregnant accidentally? should they ruin their whole lives for a kid or should she get an abortion?
adoption. I don't mean to compare my self to other guys but if I was the father I would so want the baby. He is a part of me. I don't want to see that die just because it is inconvient. Life is a beautiful thing.

You do have belief though... You believe and have faith in yourself not needing it. So you do have a type of faith.

No, belief in one's self does not necessarily constitute faith. Faith is belief in something that cannot be proven and you would normally have no reason to believe in. In this case, he has reason to believe in himself. He's seen what he's done in the past, and he has reason to believe in can accomplish what he sets out to accomplish (within reason, of course).

The way the last poster described Reagan reminded me of Clinton. I for one do not compare the two... Reagan did loads of good for the economy, world peace, and other stuff that I am to lazy to look up nor post...

Um, you do realize that you compared them explicitly in post EDIT #2359?

As for your research standards (and general capacity to support your position), your own words speak volumes...

adoption. I don't mean to compare my self to other guys but if I was the father I would so want the baby. He is a part of me. I don't want to see that die just because it is inconvient. Life is a beautiful thing.

would you ruin yours for the babys?

We thus establish that faith in Jesus or the Bible is unnecessary for a meaningful life.
100% correct you are. But I choose to believe in the Christian faith because the evidence I have seen points me in that direction.

As for condoms, the pill, getting snipped... All of these are bound to fail sooner or later. What about the married couple that planned on 3 kids. After the 3rd was born, she went on the pill, they both got snipped and he wore a condom, and yet a pregnancy still occurred? It happens.

100% correct you are. But I choose to believe in the Christian faith because the evidence I have seen points me in that direction.

Like your evidence about what is and isn't in the bible?

would you ruin yours for the babys?
I choose to look at it as an improvement in my life. I concider it an honor to be given the priviledge to take care of another human life.

100% correct you are. But I choose to believe in the Christian faith because the evidence I have seen points me in that direction.

What evidence? You've yet to provide sound evidence to back your 'faith.' You cant argue that your faith alone is evidence.

I'd point you towards the Invisible Pink Unicorn, but I fear it'd be wasted on you.

adoption. I don't mean to compare my self to other guys but if I was the father I would so want the baby. He is a part of me. I don't want to see that die just because it is inconvient. Life is a beautiful thing.

Narcissus has wandered from the Greek pantheon into Christianity...

Um, you do realize that you compared them explicitly in post EDIT #2359?

As for your research standards (and general capacity to support your position), your own words speak volumes...
hunh? :confused: What are you saying?

I choose to look at it as an improvement in my life. I concider it an honor to be given the priviledge to take care of another human life.

Even if that priviledge would mean you and the baby wind up on the streets because you cant afford rent?

I choose to look at it as an improvement in my life. I concider it an honor to be given the priviledge to take care of another human life.

And just remember, if your precious, honored life chooses different religious beliefs than you, your God will torture it forever.

In fact, your God already knows what your child will choose, and its place in Heaven, or Hell, is already prepared...

I choose to look at it as an improvement in my life. I concider it an honor to be given the priviledge to take care of another human life.

yea well thats you. most 16 year olds cant afford children. need their education. or are just plain not ready for taking care of a baby. in this case abortion is the best way to go. babys can ruin a lot of peoples lives. i speak from expernience.

I love the maker who makes billions of defects in a row, and blames the product...Microsoft?

hunh? :confused: What are you saying?

Exactly. Your posts are the exhibits in my case against your mindset.

Now, now, even Corneliu presumably has a real life.

Besides, he's been at the wall as long as I've seen his posts, and he bravely repeats what he needs to believe, at length.

Also, from everything he's posted so far, I don't think Corneliu can really critically question himself without endangering his coping mechanism. I honestly doubt his mind will allow for it.

Now the list line can be considered flamebait. I cope very well and my mind does allow it. I suggest you apologize.

Microsoft?

Sigh...wife wants to buy one of the intel-chipped Macs in November...

I can deal with her being Mormon, but damn...

I'd point you towards the Invisible Pink Unicorn, but I fear it'd be wasted on you.I beg to differ! Rerences to Her Holiness The Invisible Pink Unicorn, or to the Church of Discordia, are never wasted :D

Halo and NwN Playaz there is no proof for your religion. It's a purely intellectual excercise. It isn't based in reality.

How can someone who appears, by his use of language at least, to be reasonably intelligent be so unopen to self-examination, so unable to see the faults with his line of argument? I do, however, apologize to CornDog for that parting shot.

Apology accepted.

And I always examine myself.

it has already been established that not being able to tell what is God's plan is part of God's plan.

but now that i think of it, isn't that a kind of double-negative? If you know that you don't know, then you do know, and it's not mysterious ways any more, it's just ways.

kindof like Bush's speech on the known knowns, and the known unknowns, and the unknown knowns, and the unknown unknowns.
Rummy, you mean?
"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know."
-

Now the list line can be considered flamebait. I cope very well and my mind does allow it. I suggest you apologize.

If the mods feel its out of line, I will refrain from repeating it out of respect for them, but I'm not going to apologize.

Speculating about somebone's mentality doesn't seem to me any worse than speculating about the fate of somebody's eternal soul in torture forever.

I beg to differ! Rerences to Her Holiness The Invisible Pink Unicorn, or to the Church of Discordia, are never wasted :D

Halo and NwN Playaz there is no proof for your religion. It's a purely intellectual excercise. It isn't based in reality.
PBUH, MHHHNBS

You're my f'n hero...

If the mods feel its out of line, I will refrain from repeating it out of respect for them, but I'm not going to apologize.

Speculating about somebone's mentality doesn't seem to me any worse than speculating about the fate of somebody's eternal soul in torture forever.
Especially when it pertains to the issue at hand...

Sigh...wife wants to buy one of the intel-chipped Macs in November...

I can deal with her being Mormon, but damn...
My apologies. I'm still waiting for Abacus ver. 2.6.

My apologies. I'm still waiting for Abacus ver. 2.6.

I think Eutrusca has the beta version of the Abacus...

(I say that with joking affection, I know he's not really that old...although he might be eventually...)

And I always examine myself.:eek:
Ewwwewwwewickewwwickick*retch*
This is like Kamsaki's post!

And for flavour:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10870270&postcount=2080
w/
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10870319&postcount=2094

Don't worry, its not mine. Don't remember where I saw it.

Unfortunately, Cornelius is quite harmed. Devastated, in fact.

As the old saying goes: "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." I'm not devestated at all my young padawan learner.

The paradox rends his argument, tearing open the veneer of his "faith" and showing the furiously spasming heart of his need. There are some here who follow religion as culture, some as belief. Corneliu just has a crutch.

Oh utter crap and you know it. My suggestion to you is come out here and meet me personally. You'll be surprised.

:eek:
Ewwwewwwewickewwwickick*retch*
This is like Kamsaki's post!

And for flavour:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10870270&postcount=2080
w/
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10870319&postcount=2094

C'mon now. As you start to get older, self-exams are a necessity...just remember, though, there's a limit...after twenty minutes, you're not looking for anything, you're just on vacation...

Of course I believe in a God.

As the old saying goes: "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." I'm not devestated at all my young padawan learner.

Oh utter crap and you know it. My suggestion to you is come out here and meet me personally. You'll be surprised.

Heh, heh...follows up "sticks and stones" with "utter crap".

You can disagree with me, but "you know it" implies you don't even recognize my right to disagree with you.

My description of you is how you honestly strike me. Might you be different in real life? I hope so, but thats up to you.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I used to think most christians were like him, but I'm happy to see more like you, Dempubliscents, and Jocabia.

I wouldn't go to church with any of you, but I wouldn't mind you building a church of your brand of religion next to my house.

Again, why don't you come out here so we can actually talk.

In that sense, you could be right. He's blissful in exactly that way, I suppose.

I guess if you aren't damaged in any way you aren't aware of, he's made himself invulnerable...

All I can say is, stop with the flamebaiting. Is is rather impolite to talk about someone behind their backs like this. Not to mention it can be considered a violation of the rules as:

1) You do not know me personally

and

2) this is the internet.

Again, why don't you come out here so we can actually talk.

I'm going to assume there's no threat there, and you really would like to just talk.

Well, for words, this place is completely adequate.

And if I'm going to plan a trip in real life, I'd much rather spend that time and those resources on somebody like Dempubliscents or Straughn or Similization, or somebody with whom meaningful discourse is more likely.

You're very kind, but I'm no more than a lay person myself. I haven't seen any less merit in your posts than in my own.
Thank you. *bows*
I'm working on it. Good days/bad days, ya know.

And besides, according to Halo, I don't make "sence" and I'm "out of arguments"...I'm apparently in the same boat. I hope i'm not offended.

PBUH, MHHHNBS

You're my f'n hero...Harh! I should save that post as proof of my occational ability to say something worthwhile :D

By the way, belated congratulations with your sister.. Been away for a while, sorry I never got back to you :(

I thought that maybe that was just today. I've never encountered him before, just found this whole NS thing yesterday...a Lutheran friend pointed me in its direction...and I was hoping he was having a bad day.

If I was having a bad day....

this board would know all about it for I would be snapping at everyone :D

All I can say is, stop with the flamebaiting. Is is rather impolite to talk about someone behind their backs like this. Not to mention it can be considered a violation of the rules as:

1) You do not know me personally

and

2) this is the internet.

You don't know me either, and yet you've speculated freely on what I "know".

This was a thread you have been participating on, and my responses are not hidden. You come and go as you like, but you're position doesn't become unassailable when you leave. I'm not going to carefully monitor your presence when making my responses.

C'mon now. As you start to get older, self-exams are a necessity...just remember, though, there's a limit...after twenty minutes, you're not looking for anything, you're just on vacation...
Heh. True, true.
Remember though, the hand is bland. Besides, it's a good vent after the frustration of having to see how damaged you are ...
:eek:
Wait, something just made A LOT OF SENSE.

You mean he's blind about everything, not just God?

Egrev, my advise to you since you are new here is to not take what people are saying seriously about other people. Especially if they have not met said person in person.

In real life I'm a normal human being who is now a devout christian who does have several friends and gets along well with many different types of people. Even the majority of my professors here at the University love having me in there class because I do bring up many good points during topics of discussions.

My suggestion is don't take what people are saying as gospel fact (no pun intended) unless you have actually met the person.

Egrev, my advise to you since you are new here is to not take what people are saying seriously about other people. Especially if they have not met said person in person.

In real life I'm a normal human being who is now a devout christian who does have several friends and gets along well with many different types of people. Even the majority of my professors here at the University love having me in there class because I do bring up many good points during topics of discussions.

My suggestion is don't take what people are saying as gospel fact (no pun intended) unless you have actually met the person.

So, your characterizations of others here are equally limited by whether or not you've met them?

Start dealing with context that you're in. This is an internet forum, and people can go back, read your posts, and judge for themselves. It just seems that many of the people that have read a lot of your posts have already done that...

M3h.. I'm TSw (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/member.php?u=680206) from a few months back. I went on vacation & my nation got deated.
... I feel so insignificant now :( (j/k)
AH yes, i do indeed remember you.
I commended you then, as i do now. I greatly appreciate/d your posts. Perhaps there's a bit more longevity in your current incarnations' future.
*bows*

So sorry if I was confuzing to you. btw, I see a couple of you are flaming me for not being open minded. I am extreamly open minded! I believe what I believe for right now if you can show me enough evidence to make me change my beliefs I will and I will tell you when I do. but none of you have been able to do that so... yea...

wasn't flaming, just commenting on the way you were trying to present your veiws and beliefs. try doing so without resorting to calling people ignorant and such becuase it does give you the appearence of being closed-minded. that's all.

Unfortunately, we've also got Halo and NwN Playaz, The Keyi, Sons of Tarsonis, Corneliu...Oooh, ToS! Where'd that poster go?

Same critique for heaven, hell, and god, Corneliu. :(

Oh I know heaven exists my friend for I have seen it. Just like I know God exists for the same reason.

True story. I don't believe in much of the Democrat platform, but the current administration doesn't really follow much of the salient Republican platform, either...
Here's the part where, only briefly, i wistfully lament the course and fate of the independent moderate. :(

Perhaps you should stop with that dead end and START ASKING YOUR GOD!

I'll question what I want to question. I have questioned God. I really have. Sometimes he answers me and sometimes he doesn't which is an answer in and of itself.

Oh I know heaven exists my friend for I have seen it. Just like I know God exists for the same reason.


I wonder if your knowledge is as profound as muhammad atta's, who was willing to kill himself on the basis of his knowledge about heaven and god.

Oh I know heaven exists my friend for I have seen it. Just like I know God exists for the same reason.
Are you saying you died and came back to life, or that you read Revelation, as i did, and are only mentally recounting John's fever-vision?
As for "God", i probably can't prove that one way or another, as i'm fairly certain you couldn't either. Your being here would suggest that you haven't actually been to heaven, at least. If you do have a line on "God", then, tell him to keep his dipf*ck followers out of American politics, for the good of everyone involved, would you?

I'll question what I want to question. I have questioned God. I really have. Sometimes he answers me and sometimes he doesn't which is an answer in and of itself.
About that issue specifically? What's the answer then? That "god" willfully and wholly endorses murder and slaying of "his" own progeny?
What did you actually ask "god" about?

AH yes, i do indeed remember you.
I commended you then, as i do now. I greatly appreciate/d your posts. Perhaps there's a bit more longevity in your current incarnations' future.
*bows*Yay! :p
It's nice to see NSG still revolves around Christian conservative unreality... And on that note:Oh I know heaven exists my friend for I have seen it. Just like I know God exists for the same reason.No mate. Someone just spiked your tea - I know, 'cos I saw it, just like I've seen the Bible is fictional, your god drowned in my invisible friend's equally invisible bathtub, affter slipping on one of the many imfamous immaterial, obese bunnies that haunt our supernatural world.. And the big scary Star Goat ate your Heaven.

See? I can make stuff up too. And you know what? There's no need to have such boring fantasies ;)

Oh I know heaven exists my friend for I have seen it. Just like I know God exists for the same reason.

And everybody else who has "seen" a different heaven, a differenent God...they're all hallucinating. But your vision is real.

'Course, they say the same thing...a lot of the same things...

Heh, heh...follows up "sticks and stones" with "utter crap".

You can disagree with me, but "you know it" implies you don't even recognize my right to disagree with you.

That's because you've been disrespectful I only agree to disagree with those who are respectful.

My description of you is how you honestly strike me. Might you be different in real life? I hope so, but thats up to you.

As I said, come by the university within the next two weeks and see for yourself. Or you can drop by my home over summer break but I do have to meet up with a friend whom I haven't seen in 2 years first :D

I'll question what I want to question. I have questioned God. I really have. Sometimes he answers me and sometimes he doesn't which is an answer in and of itself.

In order to satisfy what wants? Or needs...

I'll question what I want to question. I have questioned God. I really have. Sometimes he answers me and sometimes he doesn't which is an answer in and of itself.Your god sounds a lot like you, corney. I wonder, when it chooses not to answer, is it because you confront it with it's paradoxical nature? - Like when we argue about .. Well anything really .. with you?

I'm going to assume there's no threat there, and you really would like to just talk.

Well, for words, this place is completely adequate.

And if I'm going to plan a trip in real life, I'd much rather spend that time and those resources on somebody like Dempubliscents or Straughn or Similization, or somebody with whom meaningful discourse is more likely.

Again, you do not know me. If your going to do that, might as well include me on that trip list. There is no threats. I do not make threats. I'm more than willing to talk to you face to face on just about any topic.

Unless, you find evil humorous...
I find that the evil i find funny is a matter of adversarial debate or deliberate misleading of someone into an uncomfortable situation. Indeed, a person can be harmed by an abrupt shift of thought-centricity - as a friend said once so well, "That was the sound of a paradigm shifting without a clutch." - and they may even in their confusion and vitriol harm others. I understand that as being something that can be considered evil. And by that i admit i have some evil in my nature. But i'm generally a particularly moral person, especially in that i prefer the lack of comfort than the actual psychological harm. I'm pretty sure my post history would so attest. Even on this thread. I surprise myself sometimes.

So, your characterizations of others here are equally limited by whether or not you've met them?

Start dealing with context that you're in. This is an internet forum, and people can go back, read your posts, and judge for themselves. It just seems that many of the people that have read a lot of your posts have already done that...

I really do need to stop doing what I'm doing about characterizing other people whom I have not met.

That's because you've been disrespectful I only agree to disagree with those who are respectful.

That kind of conditional regard is laughable. You will only recognize that I can disagree with you if I softsoap it for you? Tough. I can and do disagree with you. Putting your fingers in you ears and going "No, no, you know I'm right, you can't disagree, you can't!" doesn't reflect well on your position.

And again, my opinions on your mentality as you've revealed here are no more disrespectful than deciding anybody without your religious beliefs should be justly tortured by God.


As I said, come by the university within the next two weeks and see for yourself. Or you can drop by my home over summer break but I do have to meet up with a friend whom I haven't seen in 2 years first :D

Please...if you can't present a meaningful position here, what makes you think I'll find you more cogent in person?

Why is it you think yourself so much more convincing in person? Are you that inauthentic here that you'd be unrecognizable in person?

About that issue specifically? What's the answer then? That "god" willfully and wholly endorses murder and slaying of "his" own progeny?
What did you actually ask "god" about?

No Straughn. I do not question God on what he thought of the crusades. Frankly, they were a waste of time, money, and lives.

Killing children is so holy, only God should do it.
Problem is, "God" is notoriously lacking in tact or subtlety.
...tends to make a mountain out of a molehill ;)

No Straughn. I do not question God on what he thought of the crusades. Frankly, they were a waste of time, money, and lives.
I agree with you - but i didn't mean just the crusades. Truly, it should have crossed your mind why any creating creature would choose death of its own progeny over egotistical issues?
You should ask. You yourself are at risk.

Also, be aware that another poster may use your post as a reference to an earlier one where you were considered contradicting the bible and/or god's will.

Again, you do not know me. If your going to do that, might as well include me on that trip list. There is no threats. I do not make threats. I'm more than willing to talk to you face to face on just about any topic.

Its hardly your willingness that I find so uncompelling. Its the veracity and soundness of your position.

Again, why should I meet you face to face? Can you not present a reasonable position here?

Its hardly your willingness that I find so uncompelling. Its the veracity and soundness of your position.

Again, why should I meet you face to face? Can you not present a reasonable position here?

I have tried and got slammed. I always post a reasonable position on many topics here and get derided for it regardless of the fact that some of the points I bring up are worth discussing. However because I am in the minority on this board most of the time, the points I do raise do not get talked about

Um, just to be wary, Halo and NwN Playaz has not exactly distinguished himself for thorough and rigorous research skills...
Ah, true ... on point, i get just as worked up over watching The Simple Life.
*nods*

I have tried and got slammed. I always post a reasonable position on many topics here and get derided for it regardless of the fact that some of the points I bring up are worth discussing. However because I am in the minority on this board most of the time, the points I do raise do not get talked about

Give me an example of such a point.

Its hardly your willingness that I find so uncompelling. Its the veracity and soundness of your position.

Again, why should I meet you face to face? Can you not present a reasonable position here?
Perhaps he wants to spray you with "holy" water, kind of like Michael Moore was suggesting as a way to deal with Ireland's catholic/protestant problem. ;)
Or he wants to jump you, brainwash you, and convert you with a bunch of his posse? He's calling you out?
Is god telling him to do it? Perhaps you'll be the first of many a sordid and messy affair?
EDIT:Ever seen "Frailty"?

100% correct you are. But I choose to believe in the Christian faith because the evidence I have seen points me in that direction.
See, i think this isn't a post i'm liable to make fun of.

Perhaps he wants to spray you with "holy" water, kind of like Michael Moore was suggesting as a way to deal with Ireland's catholic/protestant problem. ;)
Or he wants to jump you, brainwash you, and convert you with a bunch of his posse? He's calling you out?
Is god telling him to do it? Perhaps you'll be the first of many a sordid and messy affair?

Heh, no, I think its a lot like used car sales...

Just get 'em in , get 'em in , keep 'em talking, don't let them leave, wear them down, you can close the sale...that kind of technique.

EDIT: no, never caught "frailty"...film?

I have tried and got slammed. I always post a reasonable position on many topics here and get derided for it regardless of the fact that some of the points I bring up are worth discussing. However because I am in the minority on this board most of the time, the points I do raise do not get talked aboutI'm sorry, but unless my memory is totally buggered, it would appear you make this claim each & every time you present an illogical argument, have it torn to bits, leave for a shorter or longer period, present the same argument again, and have it torn apart again.

Perhaps you aren't some pursecuted minority, but simply unable to make a cogent argument. Ever considered that?

I'm sorry, but unless my memory is totally buggered, it would appear you make this claim each & every time you present an illogical argument, have it torn to bits, leave for a shorter or longer period, present the same argument again, and have it torn apart again.

Perhaps you aren't some pursecuted minority, but simply unable to make a cogent argument. Ever considered that?

Define what an illogical argument is. I do bring up points that never get discussed even though I have them discussed in a college classroom all the time. Why can I have them discussed in a college classroom but not on an internet forum?

geez ruff, death sucks. it sucks big time. its not like you wont mourn every time someone you love dies no matter how or when.

some people go early, some live a long long time. in the end, everyone dies. my father in law told me that when his mother died at age 90 he was as sad as when his daughter died at age 6.

my point is that "god" wasnt being particularily cruel to your friend. she had a beautiful life for as long as she lived. she overcame adversity, she had a good family, she maintained her good spirits even as she was dying. she still inspires people even after she is gone. as the song on the radio says "thats a life you can hang your hat on".

god doesnt promise a life without pain. he doesnt say that if you believe in him and follow his commandments he'll make all your troubles go away.

he promises that if you ask, he'll help you get through it and that someday you will be brought to a more perfect existance where, in THAT life, there is no trouble and you will be reunited with those you have lost.

isnt that what your friend wanted for you?

I agree with you. :) Glad to see that someone sees it as I do.

Define what an illogical argument is. I do bring up points that never get discussed even though I have them discussed in a college classroom all the time. Why can I have them discussed in a college classroom but not on an internet forum?

Please present an example of such a point.

Nobody promises to agree necessarily, but lets discuss it.

I think Eutrusca has the beta version of the Abacus...

(I say that with joking affection, I know he's not really that old...although he might be eventually...)
He has taken a few hits, thus positing the question ... *nods*
..and his libido doesn't seem the worse for wear.

Please present an example of such a point.

Nobody promises to agree necessarily, but lets discuss it.

I don't care if its agreed to or not. Its the discussion that counts where both sides can present their arguments.

Now what subject would you like a point on?

Define what an illogical argument is. I do bring up points that never get discussed even though I have them discussed in a college classroom all the time. Why can I have them discussed in a college classroom but not on an internet forum?I'll do better than that, I'll give you a link explaining the word. (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=illogical) I'm nice like that, sometimes.

Perhaps you'd in turn present us with one of your many coherent arguments?

I don't care if its agreed to or not. Its the discussion that counts where both sides can present their arguments.

Now what subject would you like a point on?

Any that you feel went unaddressed. Also, if you can remember the thread it was on, so I can look and see if it was addressed.

I'm going to assume there's no threat there, and you really would like to just talk.

Well, for words, this place is completely adequate.

And if I'm going to plan a trip in real life, I'd much rather spend that time and those resources on somebody like Dempubliscents or Straughn or Similization, or somebody with whom meaningful discourse is more likely.
WooT!
Well, i'm as boring IRL (or worse) than i am here.

WooT!
Well, i'm as boring IRL (or worse) than i am here.Not to worry, after a few pints & an hour or two in the company of Bad Manners, being boring isn't humanly possible - not even if you're dead.

Any that you feel went unaddressed. Also, if you can remember the thread it was on, so I can look and see if it was addressed.

The threads are old now and I do not want you accused of grave digging.

Frankly, some of the issues deal with intelligence, the war in Iraq, CIA operatives.

The threads are old now and I do not want you accused of grave digging.

Frankly, some of the issues deal with intelligence, the war in Iraq, CIA operatives.

Allright...on this thread, which of your arguments do you feel went without response?

Allright...on this thread, which of your arguments do you feel went without response?

:eek:

I'm going to have to dig for that one and that could take me awhile considering the page number we're on.

:eek:

I'm going to have to dig for that one and that could take me awhile considering the page number we're on.

Corneliu, you made it sound like your arguments were constantly being ignored. It now seems like less of a frequent event than you might've thought...

Lol I just remembered why I donn't do threads like these on the internet. Because I can always get my point accross better when i talk to a person face to face and can show them what facts I have in books and stuff. It is so much easier. I will admit that much of my posting I have done today was stuff that I remember off the top of my head and may have seemed unclear.

My phlosophy about arguing anything over the internet is that it is like the special olympics... Any way you look at it, it is still retarded... So yea... PM me if you want to yell at me about this but other than that I am signing off this thread. Probably for good.

Lol I just remembered why I donn't do threads like these on the internet. Because I can always get my point accross better when i talk to a person face to face and can show them what facts I have in books and stuff. It is so much easier. I will admit that much of my posting I have done today was stuff that I remember off the top of my head and may have seemed unclear.

My phlosophy about arguing anything over the internet is that it is like the special olympics... Any way you look at it, it is still retarded... So yea... PM me if you want to yell at me about this but other than that I am signing off this thread. Probably for good.

And there we have the dismount, about the same level of as most of the routine...

That's because you've been disrespectful I only agree to disagree with those who are respectful.

As compared to the grievous situation of disagreeing to disagree with those who are respectful?
Are you or are you not still not agreeing? Then you are basically asking people to play by YOUR rules to still come to the same result.
I wonder how many will indulge you.

I'm going to have to dig for that one and that could take me awhile considering the page number we're on.Take your time. We can always bump this thing to keep it on page one.

Take your time. We can always bump this thing to keep it on page one.

Heh...they might lock it after some point...

My phlosophy about arguing anything over the internet is that it is like the special olympics... Any way you look at it, it is still retarded....

Sorry, had to reply to this, particularly...

Which is more "retarded", to argue over the internet (which you've done), or to argue poorly over the internet (which many feel you've overdone)?

Heh, no, I think its a lot like used car sales...

Just get 'em in , get 'em in , keep 'em talking, don't let them leave, wear them down, you can close the sale...that kind of technique.

EDIT: no, never caught "frailty"...film?
Yep. :D
Actually, i wouldn't mind hanging out with him. I don't know if he could handle it, though.
-
As for Frailty, one of less than a handful of worthwhile Bill Paxton films.

Heh...they might lock it after some point...Shhhh!
You shouldn't be presenting options for sliding out of tight spots :p

Anyway, supposing the three of us were to meet in person, I'm wondering.. Do you guys like Ska?

Shhhh!
You shouldn't be presenting options for sliding out of tight spots :p

Anyway, supposing the three of us were to meet in person, I'm wondering.. Do you guys like Ska?

Well, a Ska band would outnumber the three of us, but I'm game. You guys ever make it to Vegas? I know some spots.

Not to worry, after a few pints & an hour or two in the company of Bad Manners, being boring isn't humanly possible - not even if you're dead.
What if i like to play dead when my intermittant conversational skills grind to a halt?

Besides, now you're giving me a challenge for my future public venues. :)

Well, a Ska band would outnumber the three of us, but I'm game. You guys ever make it to Vegas? I know some spots.If my girl & I get married, we've more or less promised eachother we'd have a pink wedding in vegas, with Elvis clone & the works... I guess it could be arranged? :D

If my girl & I get married, we've more or less promised eachother we'd have a pink wedding in vegas, with Elvis clone & the works... I guess it could be arranged? :D

One of our friends did the Elvis thing..was quite nice, not that expensive...where's Corneliu? Hope he didn't get lost in the archives...

:eek:

I'm going to have to dig for that one and that could take me awhile considering the page number we're on.
I'd do it. I actually DO it. I believe Saint Curie pointed out as much.
C'mon, it's worth it. You went through the trouble of calling him out, so at least be willing to make nicey-nicey.

Shhhh!
You shouldn't be presenting options for sliding out of tight spots :p

Anyway, supposing the three of us were to meet in person, I'm wondering.. Do you guys like Ska?
I tend to think more in terms of what i don't have patience for, which is only *generally* two genres (as in what i'm quickest to dismiss as bilge).
Ska isn't one of those two genres.
Admittedly though, this past week i've had little patience for most music that i usually don't find irritating.

I'd do it. I actually DO it. I believe Saint Curie pointed out as much.
C'mon, it's worth it. You went through the trouble of calling him out, so at least be willing to make nicey-nicey.

Okay, seriously, Corneliu went on at length about us "slamming" him and ignoring his ideas, as if it happened frequently. I'm starting to feel that most of the "benefit of the doubt" chips belong in Sim's pile.

One of our friends did the Elvis thing..was quite nice, not that expensive...where's Corneliu? Hope he didn't get lost in the archives...I think he took your "The mods might lock the topic" for advice.

Perhaps it's time for a thread about global warming denials? Or maybe about a US President's inalienable right to spy on American citizens?

I'm sure we'll think of something to kill time.

Well, a Ska band would outnumber the three of us, but I'm game. You guys ever make it to Vegas? I know some spots.
Long trip. I haven't yet gone.
Closest i got was to Reno.
As is, i have two mental images - one, CSI.
Two, Grand Theft Auto:San Andreas.
:D

Long trip. I haven't yet gone.
Closest i got was to Reno.
As is, i have two mental images - one, CSI.
Two, Grand Theft Auto:San Andreas.
:D

If you guys are closer to California, we can compromise.

edit: Did you guys see Halo and NwN Playaz's closing post a few pages back?

If you guys are closer to California, we can compromise.Nah.. I'm in Europe. It's all equally far away for me, and.. Well.. The only compelling reason I'd ever have for visiting the US would be a Vegas wedding (I'm strange like that) - apart from you two, of course ;)

EDIT The one about running in the Special Olympics?

I think he took your "The mods might lock the topic" for advice.

Perhaps it's time for a thread about global warming denials? Or maybe about a US President's inalienable right to spy on American citizens?

I'm sure we'll think of something to kill time.
Hey i actually DID the global warming denials thread. More than once! (Me & Desperate Measures actually).
I've never started a thread about the "president"'s rights, though. I am the only one i've seen here, however, who actually READ the pertinent parts of the Patriot Act and their contrast to the '78 FISA literature. I posted it to Greenlander and a few others. And time has since passed without any real clarification on that ... :(

Nah.. I'm in Europe. It's all equally far away for me, and.. Well.. The only compelling reason I'd ever have for visiting the US would be a Vegas wedding (I'm strange like that) - apart from you two, of course ;)

Don't all Europeans own aircraft?


Its been fun, guys, but it looks like Corneliu might need some time to find evidence of what everybody supposedly does to him all the time.

Catch you all later.

If you guys are closer to California, we can compromise.

edit: Did you guys see Halo and NwN Playaz's closing post a few pages back?
I used to live in San Jose and Menlo Park in CA. Now i'm in Alaska.

As for their last post, i saw that ... and how Corneliu opened that particular door for them to "gracefully" exit.

Hey i actually DID the global warming denials thread. More than once! (Me & Desperate Measures actually).
I've never started a thread about the "president"'s rights, though. I am the only one i've seen here, however, who actually READ the pertinent parts of the Patriot Act and their contrast to the '78 FISA literature. I posted it to Greenlander and a few others. And time has since passed without any real clarification on that ... :(I know. Well.. I didn't know about the Patriot vs. FISA thread you made, but I did follow your global warming threads.

I posted at lenght in a few global warming threads when I first joined.. I've stopped, as you & others do it at least as well as I can, and it is a hell of a lot of work to debunk all the random bollox spewed by a couple of the more persistent posters on here.

EDIT: Nite nite both of you. I'll be off as well - and Corney, I've bookmarked this thread. I'll check it when I get sober.

Don't all Europeans own aircraft?


Its been fun, guys, but it looks like Corneliu might need some time to find evidence of what everybody supposedly does to him all the time.

Catch you all later.
Good banter. Good thread. It was worth the perusal, and i look forward to more. *bows*
I'm off to flit other threads and news as well.

I know you don't believe in any indeterminism, but I'd like to present at least the idea that it could be modeled inductively.

It isn't so much that I don't believe in indeterminism. I actually think that there are aspects of our existence that are indeterministic. I would have to, in fact, to believe that God directly interacts with this world at all, as such interactions would involve that which is outside the universe creating input - input that could not be measured as such, as it is outside the universe and thus outside our realm of measurement. I think that certain aspects of the human spirit (or soul, if you will) may be indeterministic, thus allowing us choice, although I am not sure of this.

Of course, both of these things are outside the realm of science. And I think science works because neither of these things interfere with the underlying workings of the universe very much. What I do know is that the scientific method relies on the idea of a deterministic universe - not deterministic in the "we can personally predict every single thing", because I don't think we'll ever get there. But it does rely on cause and effect - basic rules that govern everything, and the idea that certain initial conditions will *always* cause the same result.

Suppose all the "underlying rules" didn't choose the final discrete outcome but only a continuous range made smaller by better understanding the rules, but never made zero. Suppose that even if you knew all the rules, the nature of the information itself (not the measuring of it, but the nature of the information itself) did not exist in a pervasive enough way that the final discrete outcome could be predicted. Not because we don't know the rules or have all the factors, but because the process itself is of such a character as to defy it. Quautum mechanics is pointing to such a situation.

I don't think it is, and, if it were, we could not use science to describe it. I think that quantum mechanics points us to a very complicated scenario in which we cannot possibly know everything that can affect the outcome - not to mention that any measurements we take will actually change the outcome. But I know of no type of information that is indeterministic. Everything that we have thus far labeled "random" has actually been, "impossible for us to determine because we don't know all the information."

One could inductively explore the rules that shrink the range, and come up with a set of probabilities, but even with all the rules and all the factors, you couldn't predict the precise result. The inductive process had value, in helping you shrink the range, but the final outcome was random, not just in appearance.

To get a set of probabilities, there has to be an underlying rule that determines the final value. There has to be a basis for that variance.

Its interesting...the scientist I spoke to with the most emphatic religious beliefs actually felt that a non-deterministic world was more in line with his Christianity. He felt that when physicallity was set in motion, it was purposely gifted with this character of indeterminism by God. I guess that would be God's act of faith in Creation, to let it move in ways that could surprise even Him, and whatever path it found could please him as more than just his own typically perfect work.

My fiance (an atheist) says that a non-deterministic world would actually go further to convince him that God existed than a deterministic one. I find that the beauty of the order of things - the fact that things work to the smallest detail - is actually more evidence to me for a God. True randomness in the basic workings of the universe, to me, would suggest that there was no control or Creator.

I know. Well.. I didn't know about the Patriot vs. FISA thread you made, but I did follow your global warming threads.
The irritating part is that the thread archives only go so many months back, and so i can't just exhume it when i want to. I have to go through my emails (i don't have word on my laptop, just favorites).

I posted at lenght in a few global warming threads when I first joined.. I've stopped, as you & others do it at least as well as I can, and it is a hell of a lot of work to debunk all the random bollox spewed by a couple of the more persistent posters on here.
I absolutely invite your input on those threads. One thing Desperate Measures is much better than i am at is showing the $ trail and the ppm measurements.
Thank you for the compliment. *bows* And i think you're excellent at that as well, which i think i've posted before.

Good night to you as well. Good luck to you.

The problem, CornDog, is that this line of reasoning depends upon my belief for its success. It is a way to explain belief, not to cause belief where there is none. I see why you have your belief, I just don't see it as a reason for me to believe.

I think the problem is that no one can give you a reason to believe. If you have faith in God because someone else told you God exists, then it isn't really faith in God - it is faith in that person and their accuracy. You can only find faith within yourself. You can only find a reason to believe within your own life. If it is not there, you are absolutely right that you don't really have a reason to believe.


So, somebody lives with authentic and genuine love and compassion because of buddhism, their life is wasted.

If somebody lives with abiding and vigorous decency just because they want to, believing they'll get no reward but doing it anyway, their life is wasted?

But if I do what I'm told by a book so I don't get tortured, that's a life well lived!

*sigh* I'll never understand the carrot-stick mentality. I thought we were supposed to grow out of that as young children.

*many snips*

My fiance (an atheist) says that a non-deterministic world would actually go further to convince him that God existed than a deterministic one. I find that the beauty of the order of things - the fact that things work to the smallest detail - is actually more evidence to me for a God. True randomness in the basic workings of the universe, to me, would suggest that there was no control or Creator.

Well, I have no problem with partial indeterminism, particularly as it would relate to any particular "soul". What do you think of Schwartz and Begley's work on neuroplasticy and free will? It touches on the quantum elements, but I don't have the biology background to get most of it.

I don't think we agree on the implications of quantum dynamics, but I'm no expert and you could completely be correct.

I just don't see a true randomness as detracting from the universe, with or without a creator. A painter doesn't know how people will react to her work, but she can still create.

What do you give the God who has everything? A pleasant surprise...

I think the problem is that no one can give you a reason to believe. If you have faith in God because someone else told you God exists, then it isn't really faith in God - it is faith in that person and their accuracy. You can only find faith within yourself. You can only find a reason to believe within your own life. If it is not there, you are absolutely right that you don't really have a reason to believe.

One guy here claimed his faith came from the fact that his dad survived a bad car accident. That one was a bit tough to go with...


*sigh* I'll never understand the carrot-stick mentality. I thought we were supposed to grow out of that as young children.

Well, not everybody's spiritual architecture was carefully built with introspection and genuine personal deliberation, Demp. Yours was, but a lot of folks grasp it as a kind of identity to anchor them, building themselves out of religion, instead of molding some kind of religion out of what they find inside.

If my girl & I get married, we've more or less promised eachother we'd have a pink wedding in vegas, with Elvis clone & the works... I guess it could be arranged? :D


Ohhhhh...its fun! Trust me. Although my wedding in vegas wasn't pink in front of elvis. it was on the pirate ship at treasure island...

is it still hijacking if this thread has been going on for days and days....

ummm, no, according to catholic, baptist, and methodist dogma, we are all born with original sin, hence the need for baptisim.

The Original Sin doctrine is really more dogmatic in the Catholic Church - and especially so in Presbyterian. Of course, that dogma comes from the likes of Augustine, who stated that a baby sins because it cries for food and "we would not suffer that behavior in an adult." :rolleyes:

The Original Sin doctrine is really more dogmatic in the Catholic Church - and especially so in Presbyterian. Of course, that dogma comes from the likes of Augustine, who stated that a baby sins because it cries for food and "we would not suffer that behavior in an adult." :rolleyes:

Being only mildly exposed to the doctrine of other denominations of Christianity, you may be completely right on that one.

It has been fun with all ya on here tonight, but i need to log off otherwise my paper will never get written. have a great night. i look forward to the 10+ pages on the topic I will find when I login in the morning!

*sigh* I'll never understand the carrot-stick mentality. I thought we were supposed to grow out of that as young children.
Speaking as a United States citizen, i'd say it's the exact opposite. :(

That's sort of what I was getting at earlier..

Corney how do you feel about, say me, suffering severe torture for a couple of days?
What about weeks? Months? Years? Lifetimes? Eternity?

Would you subject me to such treatment?

People always get hung up on the description of hell as tortuous. What many don't realize is that the only real definition given to hell (outside of Revelations and such, which most believe to be allegorical) is separation from God. To one who loves God, eternal separation from God would be torturous. But if one chooses separation from God, would such a fate really be like torture?

OMFG. This is the same crap I used to spout. Let me explain.
This should be interesting, especially with the way you started your reply.

I grew up as a missionary kid. My parents met through Campus Crusade for Christ. I lived in Sydney, AUS for a few years because my dad was a graphics designer for Campus Crusade. Upon moving here to the states, I grew up in a babtist church. I was extremely active for a number of years. My parents taught/led weekly bible studies. They also taught for Precept Ministries. I grew up reading nothing but Christian propoganda.
Okay, you were raised in a religious home, you were "extremely active for a number of years", and then one day, it dawned on you that you were "reading nothing but Christian propoganda"?

What was the defining moment or moments that you decided that Christianity was nothing other than "propoganda"?

What you call belief, I call a desire to find some meaning for life instead of being willing to accept that it's just life.
So, please explain what you found, and what is the "meaning for life"?

You say believing in God is just the best, yet you offer no kind of evidence that God has directly influenced your life.
Because the poster did not offer any evidence, does that mean that his statement is somehow false?

Now, let me clarify. Your belief in a higher being might have influenced your life, God has not.
You do not know that, nor can you disprove it.

There is a difference.
Please explain the "difference".

If you honestly want to debate me on this, then please, quit trying to convert me - you cant.
I do not see where the poster was trying to convert you or anyone else. He was relating his own experience, strength, and hope?

You can, however, at least attempt to prove my beliefs to be wrong.
Prehaps you missed the title of this thread? It is titled "Do you have faith in God?" It is not titled "Prove my lack of faith in God to be wrong".

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I used to think most christians were like him, but I'm happy to see more like you, Dempubliscents, and Jocabia.

I wouldn't go to church with any of you, but I wouldn't mind you building a church of your brand of religion next to my house.

Hehe, I appreciate that. Of course, like MC alluded to, none of us could really build a church of our particular religions. I haven't talked to MC as much, but from what I've seen of Jocabia, he agrees with me that religion should be a personal thing. Thus, any religious organization either of us started would be more of a place for people (of any religion) to come and discuss religion or worship in their own way than a church where people would sit and be led in worship or listen to a sermon every Sunday. Most people wouldn't really see a place like that as being a "church".

Are you people seriously insane?????? LOOK AT ANY SOCIETY IN HISTORY! EVERYTIME THEY HAVE TRYED TO REMOVE ANY GOD ESPECIALLY THE CHRISTIAN/JEWISH GOD THAT SOCIETY HAS COMPLETELY FALLEN APART! If we remove God from america we will be wiped off the face of the planet within 100 years! OMG.. You people are so ignorant!

umm....dude so you know anything about histroy? give me one example of a society removing Christianity or Judiasm period. They've been on the growth and infact they have caused the downfall of many more empires than they have created.

and, there are more than one plains of exsistance and there is more than this life, but there is no "god"

and, there are more than one plains of exsistance and there is more than this life, but there is no "god"
Please explain.

But the difference would obviously be the summative nature of "God".
You couldn't say the same of your mother, obviously.

It was a comparison. Obviously, given the nature of God, there will be differences.

It was a comparison. Obviously, given the nature of God, there will be differences.
Well, i wasn't being intentionally sophomoric. No matter what influence my parents may have on my daily life, i don't hold them up to be my moral standards, nor do i expect them to send me to hell for my misdeeds or miscalculations. I also don't expect them to send me to heaven and be with me in eternity.

A small footnote to add- in the Catholic religion, people pray for thos in limbo, or purgatory. Enough people pray for you, and you pray as well, realize where you went long, then you will be able to enter heaven. A rather ridiculous and somewhat contradictorary (to the Bible, anyways) concept, IMHO.

IIRC, Catholic doctrine does not hold that limbo and purgatory are the same. In Catholic doctrine, all Christians go to purgatory, where they do penance until they are cleansed of their sins and eventually go to heaven. The Catholic Church used to (still might, I'm not sure) give members of the church years off of their Purgatory time for doing Pilgrimages and such. Non-believers, for the most part, go to Hell.

Limbo, on the other hand, is where souls that can neither go to Hell nor Heaven end up. They stay there forever. As I understand it, the idea has kind of been in and out of Catholic theology, without ever really being clear. Infants who die before baptism are supposed to go here, as are the unborn. In more recent times, a doctrine that such infants and the unborn are "baptized" in the blood of their mother, and are thus able to go to heaven. I'm not sure if that is official at this point either.