NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm all for an Americas Summit mideval style.

And Caladonn, my ships have discovered your galapagos islands. So we can meet now. As for my other fleet heading up the atlantic coast I plan to have it sail up to the carribean, then north to Philanchez and the Scandinvans.

the only silly thing about our entire RP is that at this point no one should have such large and cohesive empires, and the navel tech is crazy good. either one can be justified easyly enough, but.. it's still silly :D

I don't know about that, in the early 1400s China had ships that could have sailed to america, and one hundred years later Columbus did. Granted the empires are pretty big, but then you have the mongol empire stretching from korea to hungary, the ottomans later, the turks controlled most of central asia, south and central america was controlled by two different sets of 3 major powers after the other. So it may be unrealistic, but it isn't too unhistorical.

the main objection to the size was how easyly the rulers seem to manage such large areas. most of them are at the size where, given the tech level, all their efforts should be on not implodeing/explodeing, not expansion. . . in a realistic world :)

incidently, i'm not complaining or saying it should change. it was just an observation.

the main objection to the size was how easyly the rulers seem to manage such large areas. most of them are at the size where, given the tech level, all their efforts should be on not implodeing/explodeing, not expansion. . . in a realistic world :)

incidently, i'm not complaining or saying it should change. it was just an observation.

Which is why I have governors, or satraps (like the persians did), who govern on behalf of the Emperor the provinces he assigns them. Fuedalism with a bit more centralized government.

heh. make sure you don't go the same way as the historical Han. they were weak because of the eunichs and beurocracy, the fell because of the governers, for the most part.

Well, though my empire spans about half the Pacific, most of it is just little island chains that are easily connected by maritime travel. My mainland is quite densely populated, probably more so than anyone else's, since I have the smallest area excepting Hyr and Angermanland but one of the biggest populations. Therefore, it's not so hard to rule. Remember, at this time sea travel is immensely faster than its land equivalent, especially on bad roads- that's why the only ones who should really be experiencing some problems governing are Tadjikstan, Oda Noh Nobunaga, Philanchez, and maybe Aust or Zanarkaand.

That reminds me, population. I think I will go with 5 million. I think that sounds about right. My people are pretty densly packed, but I shouldn't have as many as the others at 10 million.

Alright...I'll take the Ibderian Peninsula and what's left of France, then.

heh. make sure you don't go the same way as the historical Han. they were weak because of the eunichs and beurocracy, the fell because of the governers, for the most part.

What do you mean by this? The governers became corrupt? Are you sure about that? Did they run out of money?

What do you mean by this? The governers became corrupt? Are you sure about that? Did they run out of money?

well, first there were a sequince of rebellions, then the enuchs took more control, then various governers and generals realized that the emporor was being controled by these people and set about getting rid of them, but one of THEM then promptly did the same thing, repeate a few times, you get one big war... it was a mess. so meny things went wrong at once, but it ammounts to this: never EVER let anyone take powers away from teh emperor.

as for me haveing control issues, well, not really. most of those small islands are lucky to have 1000 people on them if any and as you said, sea travel is faster than land. NZ was actually united under a maori chief at least once.. or at least all the south island and some of the north. fell appart again after he died, as with a prolonged period of peace being caused by it, no one had the mana to be acknoledged as ruler after him [if i remember rightly] but NZs rivers and coasts make brilliant highways. ... bandits in the hills and stuff would be a problem though.

Which is why I'm keeping power centralized under the Emperor. And I have the cadre of the Imperial School who are trained from birth to have absolute loyalty to the Emperor. I remembered how the eunuchs caused such a problem, so I didn't create the divisions between courtiers and governors all that big, and allowed for my governors to have a provincial army. And since my Emperor chooses governors, it means he chooses men most loyal to him and ebst fit for the job.

heh. looks like you've got it all sorted out then :)

though.. what happens when you end up with a child emperor, who some of hte underlings think is incompitant and not fit to rule, or if some of them arn't actually as loyal as they appear?

heh. looks like you've got it all sorted out then :)

though.. what happens when you end up with a child emperor, who some of hte underlings think is incompitant and not fit to rule, or if some of them arn't actually as loyal as they appear?

If the Emperor passes his son the Mandate of Heaven, the governors will not betray him, even if he son is a child. Unless shown some heavenly supernatural sign, the Emperor always has the Mandate. And the Emperor has so many concubines that he has more than a dozen children. I will consider setting up a council or something, but usually the Emperor's Minister of State would be the guardian of a child Emperor until the age of 14.

I have a strong regular army under direct Imperial control, thats much stronger than the troops of any governor, they're 100% Tadjik just like the Emperor and thus, dependable. The simple idea that he could be defeated and publicly executed in a matter of a few weeks strikes fear into a/any governor(offcourse you'll only send out those governors whom you can rely on).
RL example: The Afghan ruler Dost Mohamed hired 6000 Uzbek lancers, they are reliable but cost a fortune to keep in service, he kept them around for two years. No governor or tribesman in Afghanistan dared to take advantage of the situation(the first Anglo Afghan war) to improve his own position, simply because there is ruler who is wealthy and posesses a strong army.

But I must admit that the system isnt waterproof, in fact, once the campaign in the West is over(its the last expansion campaign), I am going to reorganize a few things to get everything in order.

heh. you allso have the whole succesion issue, and the "what if the army decides that one of it's high ranking guys is better for the job" problem

opens up some interesting possiblitys.

the following will be tidyed up and put in my thread:

i get around the issue by not giveing any one individual enough power to take control, and haveing the capacity to remove the ruler without a war or anything daft like that. any guild, union, land owner etc who represents 0.5 percent of the population, with no more than half that population being represented by the same other representive, gets a seat on the councel. the prince can over rule the councel on any issue except a vote of no confidence in him, wich results in a public election [each citizen votes individually] for a new ruler. the Only standing army is the Prince's Royal Guards. and it's not very big.

in the event of war, armys are built from the top down. the prince appoints a commander, and mabey a few of the top level officers, who then appoint their underlings, and so on, untill you have an army. anyone who can afford to raise and run their own army can field units as well, with the onlyrestriction being that they are under the command of the princes appointed commander.

it get's.. interesting.

Anyone know where Froztopia is?

Frozo is off on their holidays as far as i know.

I think he said he was getting back sometime soon.

heh. you allso have the whole succesion issue, and the "what if the army decides that one of it's high ranking guys is better for the job" problem

opens up some interesting possiblitys.

the following will be tidyed up and put in my thread:

i get around the issue by not giveing any one individual enough power to take control, and haveing the capacity to remove the ruler without a war or anything daft like that. any guild, union, land owner etc who represents 0.5 percent of the population, with no more than half that population being represented by the same other representive, gets a seat on the councel. the prince can over rule the councel on any issue except a vote of no confidence in him, wich results in a public election [each citizen votes individually] for a new ruler. the Only standing army is the Prince's Royal Guards. and it's not very big.

in the event of war, armys are built from the top down. the prince appoints a commander, and mabey a few of the top level officers, who then appoint their underlings, and so on, untill you have an army. anyone who can afford to raise and run their own army can field units as well, with the onlyrestriction being that they are under the command of the princes appointed commander.

it get's.. interesting.


Those is Europe would ahve to deal with that. Being of the Han (chinese) our ideology is much different from what you mentioned. The troops are loyal to the Son of Heaven. Same way that you have Kirisubo and his samurai.They are loyal to their liege lord. To disobey your lord or master would bring dishonor on your family and decendants.

hehehehhehehe.. that comment makes me laugh.

sure, you'll have problems less often, but they'll useually be worse.

actually, what you'd have, is people kind of "sidelineing" the emperor, then fighting over who gets to be the one who says "the emperor says do [thing]" japan and china both historicaly had problems like that. heck, japan had it's waring states period, i belive, amoung others, and the three kingdoms period was one of several similar incidents in china. not sure if they even HAD an emperor at that point though..

heh.. my system, on the other hand, is more prone to spying, intregue, and assasination, than outright war... most of the time.

hehehehhehehe.. that comment makes me laugh.

sure, you'll have problems less often, but they'll useually be worse.

actually, what you'd have, is people kind of "sidelineing" the emperor, then fighting over who gets to be the one who says "the emperor says do [thing]" japan and china both historicaly had problems like that. heck, japan had it's waring states period, i belive, amoung others, and the three kingdoms period was one of several similar incidents in china. not sure if they even HAD an emperor at that point though..

heh.. my system, on the other hand, is more prone to spying, intregue, and assasination, than outright war... most of the time.

You got a point.

Kirisubo has just fought a civil war and the first Shogunate has been formed.

the divine Emperor is a figurehead just like in feudal Japan but the Imperial family is viewed as essential to holding the nation together.

With each district of the Empire having a small level of automomy but still owing loyalty to the Shogun and the Emperor a local Daimyo can welcome and deal with visiting merchants and ambassadors but needs to refer other things to higher up people such as the provincial Daimyo and eventually up to the Shogun and his council.

Assasinations can still happen in Kirisubo and some of the spies are still around.

oh yeah, that reminds me: terror and Oda [i think it was you?] there's some stuff for you to react to in my thread, i belive. and i updated the info post at the top, too.

Reacting/reacted.

I'm worried there's loadsa stuff I've missed in the last couple of days, so feel free to gimme a nudge if I've missed something specific.

Meanwhile, there are two nations I need to talk to (OOC) and others I would just like to talk to, so...check your TG's guys.

I have a thread! Yay!

More to the point, it's here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10453882#post10453882)

hehe.. only took you.. how long?

I know, I know. But it's there now. Lots for you to read and inwardly digest.

Test later :p

as opposed to, you know, outwardly digesting it :P

Leave me alone:(
It's, like, my first thread ever.
Anyway, does anyone know when Frozo gets back? So we can get on with the war...

:mp5: Leave me alone:(
It's, like, my first thread ever.
Anyway, does anyone know when Frozo gets back? So we can get on with the war...

He said something about being back like on either monday, or tuesday, or wensday, or thursday....heck I dunno, just getting one up on my post count! :D

i bleive he said a week from that post.. but i could be totaly wrong.

and i'm sorry terror. wasn't meaning to harras you. it's just funny.

first thread? really? huh. cool. then again, mines only, like, my second... here at least.

:cool: I wasn't feeling too harrassed, just forgot to add a :D in an appropriate place.
But yeah, tis my first thread on the forum. A new departure - I've stuck to crashing everyone else's til now.:p
If it's only a week, I guess I can live with that. Just have to possess my soul in patience...easier said than done I assure you...

ek... Been away for a few days... anyone making a move on Africa?? No?? Good... going back to sleep... bye...

ahh. that's all right then.
hehe. Warshrike.. hehe... you might want to actually do something. check the map. there's someone right near you now.

D'oh!! Aight... what page is the last map update on then?? I checked the last few pages and dident see the link anywhere... I hate being away!!

here it is (http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1087/ptrpworldmap0na.png)

Can I have these new lands in order to grow more food and have access to some new luxury items, before a new map is made I want to make it easier by saying I do not want any of the islands that aren't already colored in: http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ptrpworldmap7dn0jf.pngbump

Oh... Thats not as bad as I thought... My plans remain the same, go noith young padawannabe's!!

bump
Im pretty sure i said no to that. Its not warranted by any threads and you should be able to grow food in your current lands.

Okay, can I at least have Cuba then?

I say no, if you try and RP it, then I'll give you hell :D

Aahhhh fine... *Goes over to a corner mumbling*

Ah hah! Joy! I wasn't aware I was added. Nice map by the way. Someone should get all the various threads and hand them to Aust so he can just edit them onto the first page though. My opening post will be tommorow. It will be huge, elaborate, and spiffy.

Hi everyone, I'm away right now so I won't be on too much.

Anyway, Scandinvans, I agree with Zanaarkand... I'm actually colonising those lands right now, and if you did get past my navy then I'd be pretty much surrounded if you owned them. Therefore, I say no way to getting them automatically, and if you try to RP getting them I'll ally with Zanaarkand and possibly Philanchez and defeat you. Sorry. If you need food-growing lands, then expand further into France- the land's very fertile there. The Carribean is mainly good for growing spices and such.

BACK! Posted in invasion post. Anything else I need to know about?
Awesome map by the way.

BACK! Posted in invasion post. Anything else I need to know about?
Awesome map by the way.
Yeah, your lands have been concored (j/k)

If someone makes a compilation of threads I'll put it on the main page.

Hey Caladonn, I'm going to start RPing with you now, sorry bout holding it off. You want me to do it in your thread? Cus I gotta send off another search party, or just expand north :D

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=462780
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=467366
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469653
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=468984
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=465079
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=468047
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469155
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=467592
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=468069
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=464780
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469168
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469120


i think that's all of them. includes this one. in no particular order.
errr.. and sorry they're not labled. but clicking them will show wich is wich :)

Hi everyone, I'm away right now so I won't be on too much.

Anyway, Scandinvans, I agree with Zanaarkand... I'm actually colonising those lands right now, and if you did get past my navy then I'd be pretty much surrounded if you owned them. Therefore, I say no way to getting them automatically, and if you try to RP getting them I'll ally with Zanaarkand and possibly Philanchez and defeat you. Sorry. If you need food-growing lands, then expand further into France- the land's very fertile there. The Carribean is mainly good for growing spices and such.The reason why I want those lands is for the purpous of growing spices. Yet if there was a war I have enough naval power to win at, but not enough land power to defeat you on land.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=462780 Main Thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=467366 Aust/Frozopian War
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469653 Terror Incognitia
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=468984 Zanarkaand
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=465079 Angermanland
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=468047 Toops/OnN War
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469155 Kilani
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=467592 Oda noh Nobunaga
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=468069 Invading India
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=464780 Aust
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469168 Hyr
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469120 Invading India

thank you, Toops :)

nice one. Maybe Aust should start a whole new thread with a short summary, a list of threads and the map (with writing on it)? I can do it if he wants.

thank you, Toops :)

I like to be a help :)

should probibly add the map from a page or two back to that list too. the most recent one, that is.

nice one. Maybe Aust should start a whole new thread with a short summary, a list of threads and the map (with writing on it)? I can do it if he wants.

Each nation posts atleast once in that thread, Aust(or someone else) links to the posts of those participants, the participants put important links into those posts, allowing the participant to change/add/remove stuff without bothering Aust(or someone else) for it
How does that sound?

For the one who is making the map. If you are reading my thread, my nation is spreading west. And going to touch the West coast of "South America". Which reminds me, we need to name the parts of our map, unless we keep stating them as if it were our world today.

oki doki

the nameing of continents is up to you guys, i have added several island continents and such so our world is signinficantly more populous and less water...

Kirisubo, a heads-up. You've got incoming on your 'supply base'. It's close enough that I can plausibly have it discovered by a naval patrol, and I really don't like you shortening your supply line;)
Plus so far you only had...what, two ships land there?

Terror those two ships are the advance party there to set up the supply base. its also a place for merchant ships to pick up food and fresh water, ships being unable to function without both.

the mission is peaceful so far but the Kirisubans will fight back if they are attacked.

also war hasn't even been declared yet. you'll be attacking neutral shiping if you fight.

Well his attack could be a declaration of war :D

@ Zanarkaand: Sure, either thread is fine. I think I may have actually sent a Centurion and some soldiers south to you, so we can RP them reaching you if you want.

@ Scandinvans: You sure you could beat me at sea? My army is practically nil, but all my military funds goes to my navy. It's extremely highly trained, with cutting edge technology in ships and weapons. Practically every Caladonnian has gone to sea since they were a pre-teen- there's a good reason that my nation's an island and I avoid land borders at all cost.

@ Toops: Actually you forgot my thread. I'll get you a link in a minute.

Caladonn, if it wasn't on the list of threads, it's probilby my fault for not haveing been there. Toops just labled them because i... didn't, basicly :)

@ Angermanland: Totally fine. After all, I didn't go out of my way to make a list of threads, labeled or unlabeled, so I can't complain. My thread's link is on the third page of this thread.

@ Philanchez, Zanaarkand, Hyr, Scandinvans and Antanjyl: Tomorrow I'm going to set up the American Summit, just so all of you know.

Well, my empire is based on maritime power and trade. As well my nation relies on naval power to prevent the slaves from having effective revolts.

Well, my empire is based on maritime power and trade. As well my nation relies on naval power to prevent the slaves from having effective revolts.


you're rather massivly spread out allready, you know. and quite large... heh.. your best bet is probilby to push east, or south in europe... some potentual wars and interestingness there.

also: Aust, you need to check "time" at some point in the near future :) ...... or am i just being impatiant again?

and Oda, ummm... the Angerman thread is waiting on you.

also: Aust, you need to check "time" at some point in the near future :) ...... or am i just being impatiant again?

and Oda, ummm... the Angerman thread is waiting on you.
Apologies, I compeltely missed it-going now.

it's cool, Aust. hehe, sorry Mahkath is such an erratic pain in the arse as a diplomat/trader. just wait untill he gets into battle though. you'll be glad to have him on your side :)

Aust, I'm going to discover your land soon and start building up relations if thats ok for you

oh yeah: the first post in my thread has undergone a few revisions since i put it up. the most recent one just now. so, if you want to, go take a look. more history, more information about the current situation, a link back to here.. yeah. just in case you wanted to know. i'm going to pretty much constantly update it untill it won't let me put more words in or the RP comes to an end, whichever happens first. in the even taht i run out of words.. well, i'll put what page the next post with information in it is on :)

Well, Scandinvans, I'm pretty sure I could at least beat you to a standstill in a fair area, but I'd be fighting in my home waters, while you'd be traveling down the entire east coast of North America to reach me. That not only means you won't know the currents or shoals, but it leaves a long supply line, vulnerable to small, fast Caladonnian privateers.

My naval force is off the coast of Kiriusban now by the way.
Could someone tell me OOCily who's behind me, who's against me and who's neutral/friendly/unfriendly?

OOCily...
Aust is against (obviously). I'm against. Oda, I believe, is against. Angermanland is against.
Yourself, Kirisubo, and Ostia/ReallyDrunk are for.
Caladonn I would call guardedly neutral. Not sure Kilani has taken a view yet. As far as I know, no-one else is really getting involved.

Why are you guys against?

OOCily...
Aust is against (obviously). I'm against. Oda, I believe, is against. Angermanland is against.
Yourself, Kirisubo, and Ostia/ReallyDrunk are for.
Caladonn I would call guardedly neutral. Not sure Kilani has taken a view yet. As far as I know, no-one else is really getting involved.

I'm for but busy.

I'm against because if you won I would feel threatened. Can't speak for anyone else.

and i'll be against, once the diplomatic stuff is done, because your only way down if terror presents to much of a difficulty to get past is through me, though that would leave your supply lines vulnerable. amoung other things.

I'm for but busy.


Yea, getting your butt kicked! AHAHAHAH!(jk):D

Guy, this is Oda, I´m in Germany on business at the moment (next two days) and I wont be able to reply to any posts for a while, so excuss my absence. :(

ok... terror, want to wait untill oda puts in an appearance again, or should we come up with some sort of workaround? in my thread, that is.

Wait? Sorry, explain to stupid me what for?

my thread wasn't going anywhere untill oda responded so the chancilor could be in the right places.

oda won't be back for a couple of days.

last post in my thread, post above mine in this one for info.

so, work around, or wait?

Well, Scandinvans, I'm pretty sure I could at least beat you to a standstill in a fair area, but I'd be fighting in my home waters, while you'd be traveling down the entire east coast of North America to reach me. That not only means you won't know the currents or shoals, but it leaves a long supply line, vulnerable to small, fast Caladonnian privateers.

not to mention youd have thousands of Ronso up yoru arse at that time too Scandinvans. Just don't try it...trust us

Work around, I think. Sorry, I'm being slow.

Well, Scandinvans, I'm pretty sure I could at least beat you to a standstill in a fair area, but I'd be fighting in my home waters, while you'd be traveling down the entire east coast of North America to reach me. That not only means you won't know the currents or shoals, but it leaves a long supply line, vulnerable to small, fast Caladonnian privateers.Well, even if I chart them most of my ships would be to large to make it close enough to shore so I would have to send my troops in through small ships like row boats. Yet my transports will face trouble with your privateers.

I'd like to know what types of ships people have and how they are armed.

me 2

well if you insist

Raider Rafts
Timber construct, sail or oar driven

Attack Rafts
Raider Raft with Archers on top.

Okay, I have wooden vessels. Most, apart from the oldest, have copper bottoms, so they're quite fast.

Smallest are Cutters and Sloops, used for...basic anti-piracy and anti-smuggling work, communications, reconnaissance.
Frigates are the workhorse of the fleet; they have about a dozen guns on deck, but no heavier ones belowdecks. They also have swivel guns on deck to cut through boarders. They carry longbowmen and Marines; in roughly equal numbers.
Next up from frigates are Third-Rate ships of the line. They have a deck of guns below the top deck; also some deck guns, and swivel guns like the frigates. A larger contingent of Marines and longbowmen.
Second-Raters have a bigger gun-deck, and more guns up top; along with more Marines etc.
First-Rates have two gun-decks. They also have approaching 100 Marines. They're so massive I only have a few, but they're worth it :D
(No offence to anyone else, but I'm not sure our tech level can handle much more than that, so I'm not expecting anyone's ships to majorly outgun mine.)

Ok thats given some idea of what my navy is. I had no idea how much access they had to guns back then (my history is very foggy in some era's). So alot of my naval forces have changed. I wont bother to change this elsewhere.

The Royal Frozopian navy: The largest ships in Frozopia, they have two decks of guns and guns on the top (Basically like your first rates, but can carry more men).

Frozopian noble ships: Private owned ships, they have a medium sized gun deck and several guns ontop. These vary in speed, size and weaponry, so there is no fixed type. The older ones even carry Ballistae and catapaults.
More often than not the ships have a huge capacity for men so that the nobles soldiers can go with the ship, and there are slaving capacities.

Both types of ships are packed full of Longbowmen and the crew.

Thats pretty much all you need to know for now.

(I'm not claiming what I've got is necessarily plausible...my political history is good for the 1500's, but naval technology is not my strong point. Though I think for the technologically advanced casting of guns in iron, thus much cheaper, is at least on the horizon. Will check that.)

Kirisuban vessels are off two main types.

The war junk; a two masted fast and nimble ship. they have no cannon but they make up for that with their speed. they are 50 metres long and are quite tough ships designed for the open seas.

Typical crew tactics are either boarding or shooting arrows at the other ship.

normal crew complement : 30 hands with at least 30 samurai archers if not more.

the merchant ship; 25 metres long some have modern rigging and other use the traditional chinese style sail. two masters they are fast ships and they usually use their speed to outrun pirate ships. designed for short ocean voyages or long coastal trips.

theres a crew of 30 which usually includes at least one merchant.

My ships are a lot like Terror Incognita's; they're composed of six rates plus unrated ships.

Unrated: Sloops, Cutters, and Gunboats. They carry less than 18 guns- Sloops, 16-18, cutters, around 10, and Gunboats around 5. They have crews of less than 100 men.

6th Rate: Small Frigates, of around 20-30 guns, that carry 120 men and are mainly used as commerce protectors and patrollers.

5th Rate: Large Frigates, with 32-50 guns and 200 men, primarily in service as commerce raiders and the eyes of the fleet.

4th Rate: A combination Frigate and Ship of the Line- mainly out of service, but there are plans to give it a new naval role. They generally have 50-60 guns and 400 men.

3rd Rate: The smallest Ship of the Line, and often with the 74 gun ship viewed as the optimal design of maneuverability, speed and firepower. They have around 500 men, and 60-74 guns.

2nd Rate: Though slower and less maneuverable than the smaller Ships of the Line, it has 80-90 guns, 700 men, and are largely used as flagships.

1st Rate: There are only a few of these massive ships in the Caladonnian Navy, and each one costs an immense amount to build. They have more than 90 guns, and over 800 crewmen.

Caladonnian ships are copper-bottomed, carvel-hulled and square-rigged. They carry bronze cannons, forged at great expense but long-ranged. THere is some talk of changing to iron-cast cannons, but this has met with much skepticism from the conservative admiralty. The ships' crews are highly experienced, in marked contrast to the tiny and ill-funded army, and their marines are equipped with longbows and longswords.

Note that I'm basing this off of reduced naval statistics from the early 1700s, so they may be inaccurate.

errr... i think you might All have you're ships a bit good for the era. if you're still useing bows rather than muskets, your ships are probilby built with castle structures for and aft, and if you're lucky have a sing large, primitve cannon in one of them. i may be wrong, but it seems that way to me... on the ohter hand, given how far these ships can get, i guess the ships are more advanced than that.
never the less, anything packing multipul gun decks, loaded with cannon, rather than balista, and more than about 5 large but fairly poor cannon on each deck on each side, is probilby over powered.

certainly anything packing 50 guns at this point is just as prone to capsizeing it's self with the recoil, holeing it's self when a gun foules up and explodes, and all manner of other things. not to mention how dead they are if someone else hits the poweder magazine.

just my few cents

anyway, now for my ships, interesting contraptions all:

Masters: think america's cup yachts. then modify them to allow the centerboard/keel bit to be raised about half way so they can dock in shallower ports. and the whole thing is build of wood. very very fast, capable of crossing oceans no problems so long as they don't hit huge storms, totaly unarmed. crew of about 30 men

Waka: large cannoes, each capable of carrying 50 men seated 4 accross, except for each end, where there is a single position. rowwed by the warriors who ride them, or towed in groups up to three by Masters. also capable of crossing oceans, but much slower, and it's more risky. the bows are reinforced for ramming.

Merchantmen: so far, these are the largest ships, however, they are also not really suited to traveling far from the coast, as their loads, designes, and general use makes them more prone to swamping, much slower, and less manouverable.

None of these carry ranged weapons of any sort, however they All carry grappleing hooks and other assorted boarding equipment.

a lack of metels means wood the whole way down the hulls, sadly. on the ohter hand, they are scraped and cleaned whenever possible, covered in a kind of tar, and painted, hopefully giving a roughly uniform serface. there is lead in the base of the keal of a Master, however, to give it sufficiant weight and stability.

oh yeah, and practical troop transports/large capacity merchent ships are next on the list in the royal construction plan, navel section.

I didn't think we could be using much past caracks, which are pre-cannon I thought.

Anyway, I havn't done alot with my navy but here is what I am thinking.

Naroomese Skipper: Fast ship more suited to exploration and travel than war. Large comfortable cabins and living quarters. Many large sails, armed by archers.
Something like a Hulk: http://metamedia.stanford.edu/traumwerk/index.php/hulk

Kybarite Warship: Large ships with two large protective castle towers, armed by archers. The ships are heavy and good load bearers. Also some may be equiped with large ballistas.
Something like a Cog: http://metamedia.stanford.edu/traumwerk/index.php/cog

Seeing as I know a lot about naval technology-Though balckpowder cannons where around in the 1500, there where two at the battle of Cracy, they where unreliable and often blew up. They used stone balls as the casting of metal ones hadn't been invented yet and these often jammed and where ineffective as they burst into fragments the moment they hit anything. The cannons where massive, 10 or so meters long becuase the gunpowder was so poor that they needed a lot of it, and a long tube, to get the ball to go anywhere at any speed. Fitting a gun on a ship wasn't done until 1700 by the British navy, even then it was almost usless until 1750/60.

The cannons had a tendence to split open and explode thanks to the poor metal casting techniques, and took about an hour to laod. Most could only fire 5 or 6 shots a day.

So basically naval cannons are out of the question.

Sorry I've been so out of this lately guys. I was really going to post on people's threads, but then mid terms happened.

I'd like to get involved, if anybody has an opening on their thread, just TG me. Or something.

My people only have simple rafts for travelling between mainlaind/madagascar. This is because A) Africa made boats?? and B)Im still thinking of a good way to start a rp thread. (IE, not just going, My capitol city rejoices as my leader dances around a mexican hat and sends men northwards scouting for other nations as he has never heard of anything and that includes those full stop thingy's that you hear about every now and then if you know what I mean all right then ok good??) After all, Africa was still tribal then, so Im giving a good amount of time for the land I was given to unify. I had planned on having something more like the size of the land I own in madagascar to begin with... but, y'know!!

So basically naval cannons are out of the question.

Thats exactly what I wasnt sure of

I awnted to use Xebecs and Dhows but I wasnt sure about their armament(especially since Xebecs carry a couple of guns).

Thats exactly what I wasnt sure of

I awnted to use Xebecs and Dhows but I wasnt sure about their armament(especially since Xebecs carry a couple of guns).
Acxtually you could have one cannon, but you'd have to have a massive boat and it'd porbably blow up...

yay! i win at haveing realistic ships :) errr.. weapongs/tech wise, at least.

any bubble

a question for you Aust. do you not check your time thread. perhaps unsubscribed or something?... or do i not get informed when you post? cause, i often see you around ... and you don't post there.. well, often is relitive. but it's happend a few times. you either haven't posted there or haven't responded to mypost there, or whatever *shrugs* just curious.

yay! i win at haveing realistic ships :) errr.. weapongs/tech wise, at least.

any bubble

a question for you Aust. do you not check your time thread. perhaps unsubscribed or something?... or do i not get informed when you post? cause, i often see you around ... and you don't post there.. well, often is relitive. but it's happend a few times. you either haven't posted there or haven't responded to mypost there, or whatever *shrugs* just curious.
I think i posted that I will only reply ocne Oda has coz I plan on having our 3 caracters neet up. (The Emporers taking his ambassidor down into the city. My ambassidors randavoing with them.)

yay! i win at haveing realistic ships :) errr.. weapongs/tech wise, at least.

*points to the lone rafts*

Tbh I Rp as 1600's, only because this was the first permanent date I saw for this whole RP (made by Kirusbo). I no longer have any idea on the capabilities of my ships.

Aust, no cannons before 1700? For the two best documented vessels, look for the Mary Rose and the Vasa.

With all due respect, I think that Caladonn's technology is a little too high; being well beyond the Vasa, which was a 1600's vessel. Mine is possibly too high. But Cannon should in my view be perfectly admissible for advanced, maritime nations.

The English opposition to the Spanish Armada was largely based around cannon (well, and fireships and the weather) and that's 1588.

the Spanish armada period should provide a good benchmark for nations wanting cannon on their ships.

at least thats how i see it. Kirisubo doesen't have any cannons since they never had access to that level of technology.

If it is, I think my tech-level is just about admissible. If anyone can't do without a technological edge, we might propose Vasa-level ships that are hugely expensive? (1630, IIRC. Swedish Mary Rose.)

Aust, no cannons before 1700? For the two best documented vessels, look for the Mary Rose and the Vasa.

With all due respect, I think that Caladonn's technology is a little too high; being well beyond the Vasa, which was a 1600's vessel. Mine is possibly too high. But Cannon should in my view be perfectly admissible for advanced, maritime nations.

The English opposition to the Spanish Armada was largely based around cannon (well, and fireships and the weather) and that's 1588.
Well I was right about one thing-it was the English navy. I was tying to reamber it all off the top of my head-(SORRY).

Your suggestions good.

No need to apologise. I think we do need to keep in mind that this was originally meant to be late medieval; tech levels have moved forwards (yes, I'm one of the main culprits) to approximately Spanish Armada/Dutch Revolt levels; we probably shouldn't let them move too far too fast from now on.

Rodenka thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10476171#post10476171) is up.

The Kilani Imperium has, until recently, used galleys for their maritime use. Now that they're heading out over the oceans they're using carracks and cogs (come of the first actual 'sailing ships' with sails and rudders.) They're ususally armed with a few ballistas or small catapults that hurl rocks, greek fire, and bags of caltrops. The bulk of our firepower is in our archers and our marines.

I TGd Aust, this seems to be pretty interesting, once everything is set up and kosher (like the PT map), I'll be posting my thread. My nation will border Spizania, Qarez, and Tadjikstan. I'm looking forward to this :D.

Well, I understand the skepticism of many people here, but consider this: The Great Harry, a British Carrack built in 1512, carried 184 guns and had up to 1,000 men for a crew! This is far beyond what I have, and if we are going up to 1600 then IRL ships will be even better with practically an entire century of progress.

My ships are based off the English navy, but with many differences: For example, while the English fleet was solely built for the waters of the Channel and possibly Mediterranean, my ships are built to traverse the entire Pacific, which means they have to be more seaworthy. Therefore, Caladonnian shipbuilders made the hard decision to do away with castles. Though this limited the ability of longbowmen, since I haven't encountered any other civilised navies for a while it hasn't been a big problem.

As for cannons, yes they're pretty rudimentary, but they're better since they're bronze (albiet at massive cost). Bronze cannons are lightweight, meaning that you can afford to have multiple decks of them, if you can afford them in the first place (pardon the pun).

You will note that I have practically no army whatsoever, so all my military funds are devoted to the navy. I think this allows my navy to be a bit more powerful than most people's, though some will probably match it. Also, due to the lack of castles, my ships are bad in close range- they aren't uberpwning ships of doom with no weaknesses.

I TGd Aust, this seems to be pretty interesting, once everything is set up and kosher (like the PT map), I'll be posting my thread. My nation will border Spizania, Qarez, and Tadjikstan. I'm looking forward to this :D.

Hmm, this does conflict with my expansionist plans with Persia, can we strike a deal on that?




The discussion about naval weaponry has progressed a bit so; are cannons allowed or not? A xebec would have about 6-8 guns each side, has its maneuvrebility and speed as main advantages but is not suited for far journey's and ocean travel.

basicly you're going to be packing far less guns, wich are far less reliable and much larger, as far as i can tell, as most equivilant ships would have had. that seems to be the idea: they're allowed, but they're garbage. i mean, i'm not the ultimate authority, but that's what i'm seeing slowly emerging.

We can discuss it after I'm on the map and am officially part of the thread. Might make for a good war.

Can I make a suggestion on the map (this will affect things alot).
Can we cut a load of ocean off the top of Africa? All the way upto the south of Quarez. It will bring us all alot closer, increasing the quality of the RP.

Also It will make up for some of that land we have been adding.

Ha! 's only the Sahara! Get rid of it!
Seriously I'm up for that.

Caladonn, Ok, point taken. Though...at that time England's navy stretched to about a dozen vessels, and extras pressed into service in war.

Cannons had better be allowed, otherwise I'm having to rewrite everything about my navy and naval combat thus far.

We can discuss it after I'm on the map and am officially part of the thread. Might make for a good war.

Ehm no, we should discuss it before you are on the map, My armies are ready to march into Persia, I have recently defeated an NPC army and strectched my empire to the Caspian sea(did that several days ago, waiting for Spizania to get on with his stuff)

I'd like to get a portion of Iran, I'd suggest from the Caspian sea to Kerman so I'd have a bit more coast, leaving you with the most important and largest part of that nation.

Tadjik Tbh in my eyes he gets priority over the land. Its helluva alot better a new person joining then you claiming extra land at little expense.....

at least this way Tadjik can have a war as well as welcoming Almohed properly

at least this way Tadjik can have a war as well as welcoming Almohed properly

yep.

It sounds interesting....

Tadjik Tbh in my eyes he gets priority over the land. Its helluva alot better a new person joining then you claiming extra land at little expense.....

Noone has priority over any land and my proposal/request does not prohibit him from joining.

at least this way Tadjik can have a war as well as welcoming Almohed properly
I am not a warmongerer, I never seek wars, neither do I plan to have one right now

But it does prohibit him on selecting the ground he wants. He shouldn't leave it unclaimed for you to invade, just out of conveniance. What would make the RP better would be if he claimed that land and you seized it (or tries to anyways).

Not a warmongerer, but invading all those territories. Right.

I am not sure which way to lean in this situation...it would be great having another person included in the Rp though..

But it does prohibit him on selecting the ground he wants. He shouldn't leave it unclaimed for you to invade, just out of conveniance. What would make the RP better would be if he claimed that land and you seized it (or tries to anyways).

It would be better if an agreement was reached an we have diplomatic relations. Diplomatic relations is what I look for in the beginning of every RP and this is no different.
Not a warmongerer, but invading all those territories. Right.
Correction; Non Player Controlled territories, makes a big difference

Ok maybe, but would you expect him to give up the land no matter what you offer? I find it unlikely.

Aust, Angermanland; if they go round, what do we do?

I mean 1) Their supply chain will be totally messed up by my navy
2) I'll be able to redeploy to face the Western Fleet
3) I'll be able to commit my army, and supply transports to bring Angermanland's troops

But I'm not sure if we'll be able to take out their fleet in the same way. Do we RP splitting the fleet to cover both angles, or getting intelligence in (I have lots of patrols) and sending everything that way, or let them through?

You don't know i have troops to the West approaching...im not attacking angermanland either

They dont even know when we arrive, so you can struggle maintaining your whole navy for anything upto a year which is impractical, or you can deploy once we are spotted, which is more realistic.

The chances are you wont spot us till we are landing, but thats just medieval times.

If you remember, I caught you trying to buy ships in Qarez...I know you're trying something, involving a lot of ships...so once I see you involved in the invasion, I won't know when or how many, but I'll know you're coming from the West.
And if you're going through Angermanland's territory, and he's on our side, that will involve fighting him. Now, I don't know that you are at the moment. I just wanted to discuss, OOCily, with my allies, what we do if you go that way.

Ahh true, but everyone knows Ostia is beefing up it's military andseeking diplomatic relations. It would be somthing chatted about by merchants traveling everywhere. Ostia has never been so populated with soldiers of the Emperor...

We recognised earlier, in accepting Ostia taking part, that realism occasionally takes a back seat in this situation. All I'm asking is that we waive reality one more time, to allow _me_ to take part in this.
I'm not asking you to sail the whole fleet right up to my main force; however, I think it's not unreasonable to expect a major portion of my fleet to be able to engage a significant part of the invasion fleet.
You guys still get to invade with most of your force. I get to fight a massive naval action, and take a role in this beyond what my inexperienced army will permit.
What do you reckon?

I mean....short of radar and air reconnaissance, I can't rely on picking you up on the way in. True. But short of at least steam ships and radio communications you can't rely on co-ordinating your two different forces, and getting an army from Ostia to Aust. Equally, the supply lines for an army in Aust from Japan and Siberia are insane for this tech level; and if you live off the land you're not going to get very far very fast.

given the shear amount of shipping cruseing around the general area anyway, the odds of you getting in a large invasion force from the north, all the way to Aust, without it getting spotted and reported are low.. however, sending any specific message signifacantly faster than your ships would be hard. at most, if you were caught early, the winds went right, the right kind of ships were in the right place, etc, the defenders might have... a day's lead time once you got to Aust? and even then they wouldn't know exactly where you were going...

but if you were too close to a navel base, were seen by one of the faster ships [prehaps an Angerman Master?] and it headed Straigt for the Base to report it.. you might get caught at sea. mabey.

as for what to do if they do go around... well, i can fight them on the ground, but on the sea all i can do is out run them. by a Lot, i'll admit, but i don't really have the capacity to fight a large scale fleet action, given the total lack of ranged weapons and so on.

on the other hand, on those more distant islands, everyone can fight. kinda nessisary to avoid piracey in such small settlements. but a large force would walk all over them. *grins* you'd get to see what my warriors could do when well lead, poorly lead, aware, not aware, and so on, though.

This is like a big ol' game of Risk....I love Risk.

heh. in some ways, yeah. . .. though, risk has issues.

yeah. who knew those outlaying islands would be so important? *laughs*

Ya'll can have the islands, I'm gonna focus myself on Africa and the Middle East once I'm officially part of the thread.

ummm... i already have the islands. look at the map. i'm off in the pacific. over by terror and Aust and that lot.

Well..i never thought of it that way..the allied force can still attack Aust even if it goes by Terror, which i suggest we do..the fleet is so large that hundreds of ships will still get to land all up the coast..no navy can stop them all from breaking though...it's impossible!.

Plus the galleys that can ram and such will be doing soo all out! a naval battle would be insane..at the same time the armys could be attacking on land.....plus..when the reinforcements come they will be closer for support...

the real probelm you hit going through terror is you get to Aust, you land.. and then either have to march to, or land right near, a significant target then you've got to fight for the target. once you're exhausted from that, or while busy doing that, will be about when you'd expect the incognetan ships and troops, and quite possibly my own, to hit you. so it's a dangerous gamble, really. and even if you survive that, you've got to either live off hostile land, or be re-supplyed through enemy held teritory. even if you won that battle, there's still a whole war to get through.

your best bet, and i know i shouldn't suggest this, being on the other side and all, is atually not to punch through terror, or go around it, but to utterly Crush and possibly Annex it. wich is really mean, and would delay your atempts on Aust by.. years... but it would actually Work.

Do I have to wait on the map to be upgraded to include me before I can start my thread or can I go ahead and start it, or what?

i'd say give it 24 hours from your first post: if no one has objected, go for it.

be warned, however, that where you put your territory [i think it was you?] is a bit large... and possibly about to be chopped in half by a chunk of ocean if the map does get edited to have water around the whole of africa.

Edit after checking: not only is it over sized, but Qarez essentually bisects it. you're not really going to get away with that. one side of Qarez or the other, i think. though which ever side you chose, you could expand a bit more. perhaps the northern part untill your border meets Tadjikstan, and forget about north africa? or the southern[african] part, and expand it down the coast to the south east?

Okay thanks, I was just trying to make a compromise because Tadj wanted Iran. But I'll change the example.

I'm asking for the area in purple in the following map, just let me know if there is a problem. I decided to let Tadj do what he wants with Iran, and the Middle East. Africa and the Sinai Peninsula works just as well for my nation's history.

Map (http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9338/untitled4gx.png)

I'm asking for the area in purple in the following map, just let me know if there is a problem. I decided to let Tadj do what he wants with Iran, and the Middle East. Africa and the Sinai Peninsula works just as well for my nation's history.

Map (http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9338/untitled4gx.png)


I'm just curious why I did not get land I did RP to get some land although it is far from done, I'm just curious as to when this will happen? will it happen after I finish or get more into it or what

if you're looking at the map in taht quote, it's because it's not an official map. we haven't had one in a while, i think. eventually we'll get another up to date one, i suspect.

I'm asking for the area in purple in the following map, just let me know if there is a problem. I decided to let Tadj do what he wants with Iran, and the Middle East. Africa and the Sinai Peninsula works just as well for my nation's history.

Map (http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9338/untitled4gx.png)

I have already scaled down my claim on Iran, I only want to have part of it, so you start in the Middle east with the western part of Iran, I have no interest in the rest.


Edit: Here (ftp://users.pandora.be/Tadj/untitled4gx.jpg) is wanted I'd like to get

the link requests a password befor it will go anywhere.

Hey Oda, get back on the Toop Moon thread.

I'm back! Oh, and toops, I replied. :D

My idea on countering raids on my supply is quite good I reckon, have a look.

I like it, im not good with naval warfare strat but i can fight on land, i will leave the naval planning up to those better qualifyed..? lol

the link requests a password befor it will go anywhere.

Lets try again with this (http://users.pandora.be/bdc/Tadj/untitled4gx.jpg)

Reallydrunk']I like it, im not good with naval warfare strat but i can fight on land, i will leave the naval planning up to those better qualifyed..? lol

lol aint me, but I was kinda thinking of WW1 Britain....

Looking at modern maps of major shipping lanes and ocean currents, it looks like it would be very awkward to go via Angermanland; for awkward read uncertain, in both time and direction, meaning you risk shortage of supplies, possibly scurvy etc, and even getting lost and not landing where you want. I'm sure you'll be able to work out Latitude, but Longitude will cause you problems. Whereas going SSE, aiming for the gap East of Papua New Guinea, is relatively easy.

As for Frozo's plan on getting supplies through, well....I don't know what anyone else is thinking, but I'm thinking if you're sending convoys many different routes, we'll be intercepting them at source. In other words blockading Kirisubo's main ports. And if you're sending supplies all the way from Frozopia without stopping, there won't be much left by the time you get to Aust. So you'll need to take on my navy anyway, to sustain the invasion if not to get there :D

We were going to transport Kiriusbo for supplies mainly. As for blockading them at the source such as ports, we can get around this using far smaller boats that can transport food (albeit slower) to any stretch of coast line.

Hm Terror your kinda leaving us no choice but to invade you.

OOC:We will meet your navy regardless but either way ships will break though...there will be waaay to many to stop, the supply lines could be a problem for a bit but it will be worked out.

WWI Britain did do convoys, but it ended up being a naval battle, because to keep the trade flowing they had to keep the German fleet bottled up in port, hence Jutland. Even then the U-boats caused major problems, and they couldn't even target neutrals, whereas surface vessels could force neutral merchantmen to comply without sinking them and thus risking starting a war. In other words, convoy system using different routes is going to lead to a steady, heavy attrition of your merchant marine, as well as heavily restricted supplies, unless you engage our navies.

True but it may be alot easier for us to invade you, eliminate you or your leaders and then move to Aust. By the time we have finished you off, we could have another 70,000 reinforcements to move onto Aust, which is very tempting.

In a naval battle we would have the Austian and Caladonian navy to battle, and although they may attempt to reinforce your land troops its unlikely.

BTW Really drunk whats your navy like (the one heading to Aust).

It will have to happen but think about the amount of ships we have sailing in your direction...3 allied forces with their combined ships, my best guess the defence forces will be over ran finding themselves fighting 2 ships at the same time in some cases. My standing orders will be to go for land immeaditly...but for sure Ostian vessels aswell as everyone elses will be caught up at some point...

Okay, can I just summarise points we're agreed on, as I see it?

1) The invasion will get through. Exactly what proportion we don't know.

I think we can all agree this one. Not least, after all this build-up, it'd be a real waste of time for it not to happen.

2) Supplies will get through, but will be an issue for your forces in Aust.

We can argue endlessly about what level of supplies get through, what proporttion of your ships are intercepted, but some will get through, some won't. We don't know how many til we RP it.

3) Our navies will meet, before you invade.

I certainly think so. And ReallyDrunk's last post suggests he thinks so too.

Can we agree on that much and move on?

*Reserved for Navy stats*


The Ostian navy bound for Aust is made up of The penteconter, or fifty-oared galley (25 oars per side), became the most popular choice for naval warfare. It allowed for about 1 m (3 ft) of space for each oarsman, featured decks at the stern and bow, and measured about 30 to 38 m (100 to 125 ft) in length.

Ostia armed the galley with a ram, a sharp spike that extended forward of the ship below the waterline. Encased in bronze, the ram could be driven into an enemy vessel to disable or sink it.The galleys travel under sail power on long hauls between ports but lower the mast and sail and switch to oar power for battles.

The The typical trireme(Ramming ship) alla senzile had a hull 136 feet long and seventeen to eighteen feet wide, commonly with twenty-four banks of oars—that is, twenty-four pairs of rowing benches armed with oars. The underwater Ram was replaced by a raised beak or spur, in essence a boarding bridge, this is also how the two ships are told apart from each other mainly.

Torsion artillery pieces such as catapults were mounted on galleys aswell. The most common method of attack was through ramming then boarding.

I think the Australasia alliance could pull up a navy quick enough Really Drunk, it is one of their strengths (particularly for Terror and the Caladonians). But their war will not be against us landing, i doubt they will be ready to stop that. Just cutting us off.

I'm asking for the area in purple in the following map, just let me know if there is a problem. I decided to let Tadj do what he wants with Iran, and the Middle East. Africa and the Sinai Peninsula works just as well for my nation's history.

Map (http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9338/untitled4gx.png)


Since Reallydrunk/Ostia has interests and people in Egypt I will give in for a last time because you're new here(And it really is the last time), my connection to the Caspian sea remains(because it has already been RPed) but you can have the whole of Persia.

I'm just curious why I did not get land I did RP to get some land although it is far from done, I'm just curious as to when this will happen? will it happen after I finish or get more into it or what

Seems your presence has been forgotten.

What land did he want?

Milchama wanted to RP as Mongols and he started a thread of his own I believe (have a subsrciption on it)
Maybe our mapmaker(s) is confused as Milchama, you said you wanted to break away from the (existing) chinese

Here is Milchama's thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469177

Oh btw in the post above I got Caladonians mixed up with Angermanland. Sorry.

Oh yeah, the naval battle will involve Aust's ships...check the invasion thread, some way back, they've been sent north to my ports.

I'm thinking invading me, and invading Aust, all in one campaign, could be biting off more than you can chew. Remember, Incognitia is a nation of 20 million people. My current forces are too large to overcome immediately. And an invasion of the homeland would mobilise the entire population in a way that would not happen for aiding Aust. In addition I'm sure Aust would send assistance. Possible, but for invading Aust your best bet would be to engage my navy on your way through, then use all the ships you can spare to keep fighting my navy to keep me occupied, while your army moves in on Aust. Otherwise your grand invasion of Aust, diverted to fighting Incognitia, may never reach Aust.

Im confident we could beat you. Then we just need to cut up any Aust counter invasion, gather some reinforcements and we will have a perfect naval and land base to move on Aust.

Even if your nation does take up arms, I would put little value in it. Who cares about conscripts who have never held a sword? They are meat for professional soldiers, and after some early victories the rest of your nation could easily crumble.

Cheak above for my navy/ship stats...

Those who've never held a sword before aren't great, but those who've never held a musket? Especially in a siege...

How many sieges are you up for, in conquering my lands? Lots, I hope. After all, all those towns and cities, and strategic points...you'll need to control. And a lot of them are heavily fortified. Even professional soldiers are meat for the grinder in a siege, unless you sit back and wait for the occupants to starve. And unless you have naval superiority, guess what? That'll take years.

Unless your surrendered.....lol...

We just besiege you. Let the siege weapons do the work, dig under a few walls and hey presto you just lost your city, as a bunch of conscripts run screaming as the walls collapse around them.

And we dont need to do that for every town. Im sure quite a few will surrender, the rest we can even ignore, as long as we secure whats important.

But I see your point.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that I want you to try sailing through, get most of your fleet through, go straight on to Aust, taking your chances with supplies, and have the deciding fight there.

Unless and until you do that, I'm gonna keep being a brick wall you can bang your head on :p <<:headbang: (you)>>

there will be a naval battle..don't worry about that :)

Im arguing, because I dont like naval battles but also because Id prefer not to lose any of my land force at sea. That would suck, especially if I lose a few ships completely. But thats war.......

Either way we will run into naval opposition...we'll keep them busy while we land...

Fair enough. But I'm arguing over my whole navy, and possibly the fate of my nation, so, I hope you understand if I'm more stubborn.:cool:

Im going right for the landing...but some of my ships will be stopped without doubt...my armys are more effective on land..

Yeah probably. I think we will RP entering their waters within a few days RL time. So naval combat it is. I guess theres no space for sneaking around, we just push through. I reckon we can land half our force before the battle begins.....

Agreed, maybe a little more than half...the space between the ships will not be great..i suggest we move in closer to eachother for protection, a tighter squeeze for enemy vessels to cut in...that way it would be possible for more than 1 ship to attack a single enemy vessel at the same time

I would imagine we out number them...

Hmmm. I could see it being carnage if you fight our navies at the beach. There are tactics to employ when your enemy can't manouevre much. I'll be reading up on them.

To:Almohed

I have troops in Egypt as it stands now. I ask you when these lands are yours could you possibly send a diplomat to my Holy Empire of Ostia thread? we need to discuss some things.

I am interested in the nile..i need it really. It connects me to the lower half of the world, i am asking you if it would be possible i could use it in the future..if not i think we will have a problem..

I have 30 thousand troops stationed there that MUST make it to aust..

Does there need to be a written agreement? do you plan on writing one?

I think we can agree on things and leave it like that...maybe discuss a little more in depth...

We wont have all our ships on the beaches, and the ones who land will be ready to fight at their full combat capabilities.

But we will see.

Good, I have thrown some stuff on the table, If you have anything...

Just as a note for coming naval combat:

A ship which depended on the wind for its motive power could not hope to ram. It could still board, and the Spaniards did for a long make it their main object to run their bow over an enemy’s sides, and invade his deck. In order to carry out this kind of attack they would naturally try to get to windward and then bear down before the wind in line abreast ship upon ship. But an opponent to leeward could always baffle this attack by edging away, and in the meantime fire with his broadside to cripple his opponent’s spars.

Ahh but did you read my naval information?...i can ram without assistance of the wind..i have 50 rowers on my ships...

Sorry, not aimed at you specifically.

Ok just saying :)..

Just for amusement...
We don't want to fight
But, by Jingo, if we do,
We've got the ships,
We've got the men,
We've got the money, too.

I sum up my military philosophy for anyone who cares to read it. :D

ok... i need to finish the diplomacy thing with both Aust and Terror befor i can get involved in the invasion thread, which i will need to do soon.

both threads are waiting on oda, though one more than the other.

hehe.. fun fact: Angerman Masters= probibly the fastest ships in this RP, though to balance that are totaly unarmed. what they get used for, is a sling shot manover to launch Waka at great spead bow first into the side of enemy ships. the waka's bow is reinforced, and the men on it, melee troops all, carry grappling hooks, rope, taiahu, and other useful stuff like that. end result is that my navel tactics amount to running around in circles and raming/boarding. none of my ships carry ranged weapons, you see.

my navey is actually vary small as well, untill you get into the costal reagions. it's GOOD but it's small. 9 masters spread around various places at the moment, andother 9-11 under constrution, large ocean going transports, also under construction, lots of waka, and they Can cross oceans, but it's riskey, and they're slow. so yeah, your real worry there is them actually captureing ships and sailing them off to Aust or Terror.

oh, they have other advantages as well.. but.. the lack of ranged weaponary is a major downside to compensate for the excessive speed of the Masters, and the boarding ability of the waka. not to mention i just outright don't have ranged weapons :p that'll probibly change soon, but *shrugs*

@ all you aust invader guys: Before you think of naval battles and what-not, don't forget that some ships will be lost in transit. Most large fleets could loose of to 5% of their number from travelling vast distance and into unknown waters. So, don't expect all 30,000 of whatever number of troops to make it perfectly safe. Not to mention sickness among troops not use to sea, and normal problems of food shortages among some ships and the way food rots, etc, etc, etc.
-------


Han Navy

So, as some of you have discovered in the rps, I have quite the navy. My largest ship, which I like to call the Emperor-class is some 400 paces long, by 40-50 paces wide. It can carry some 500 troops, and has a crew of about 50-70. The defenses are basically fire arrows from archers and explosive rockets like the ones I used against Toops in his "Toop moon rising" rp. I also have smaller coastal craft, sloops would describe them best. They're about 40 paces long and 10 paces wide, armed the same way as the Emperors but can only carry about 30 troops.

I also have troop ships which are some 300 paces long and 50 paces wide. They're devoted to nothing but carrying troops, meaning not meant for combat. They can carry 600 troops each and are crewed by 30 men.

To Ostia:

If your willing to let me have the African area I proposed, I'll let Tadj have the land he wants, and you can have access to the Nile, this would be unofficial of course until we discuss it IC. This would appease all of us I believe. And if we are in agreement, that would be the final say on where I'm at so I could start my thread?

Anger, you wanna get down to business rather than running across half the city then?

To give Philanchez some relief, I created the newest map based on the conversations we have been having. Hope everyone agrees with it, if not let me know so I can be up to date if I'm wrong.

I added Hyr and Milchama, and myself to the map. I put part of Iran in conflict under Tadj's rule. And Kilani, I'm not sure where to put you at, seeing as your in Warshrike's domain. I guess we'll have to watch for a response out of Warshrike before we know that.

The Second Map is the map without the Sahara. I think ya'll probably want the second one but I'm not sure so I have both up here.

Map (http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/7526/untitled5gk.png) or Map2 (http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3531/untitled5nw.png)

Well I have officially spread my country to the West coast, if you want to add that.

Updated Zan.

Caladonn, Ok, point taken. Though...at that time England's navy stretched to about a dozen vessels, and extras pressed into service in war.
Yes, definitely true, but bear in mind that in many ways, England was still a nation recovering from invasions, the Dark Ages, and had landborne enemies like Scotland and Wales.

Caladonn, in contrast, is in sole control of its land mass, has had no great fall of technology or culture, and has no nearby enemies. All this means that I am not only inclined to build a larger navy, but am able to build one. After all, Caladonn, in government and culture, is more based on the civilisations before the Dark Ages than those after. This means I have a large standing military and significant differences between civilian and naval vessels.

As for how everyone's been talking about cutting off a lot of Africa, I don't really care too much one way or the other, but I'd like to see on a map how much is being taken off before I agree to it.

By the way, to people using oared vessels, bear in mind that they work perfectly well, indeed, they excel in confined waters such as the Mediterranean, but fail miserably in open waters. This was a major reason that the Romans failed to conquer all of Britain (Reliance on oared triremes, far less seaworthy than longboats) and the Spanish Armada failed (All those Galleasses were great against the Turks but when the Protestant Wind came up their oar-ports filled with water and they sank). It's especially hard for you, Reallydrunk, as if sailing an oared ship to England from France is hard, imagine sailing one through the Straits of Gibraltar, down the entire African Coast and across the entire Indian Ocean. All this in a trireme, the ship that the sailors beached at night because it was so unseaworthy and there was no room for them to sleep.

Argh... all this talk of massive sea battles is annoying me... my policy of armed neutrality may have to end so I can take part in one.

Caladonn, I have replied to yoru comment on my thread. Sorry it took so long but I was very busy last week. We shall have fun RPing now hurray! As for Hyr, also replied to you.

My thread: Expansion of Almohed (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=470581)

Anger, you wanna get down to business rather than running across half the city then?

sure, but i wanted to do things properly, and really, negotiations on the dock when we are barely capable of communication? this way is much better. i'm about ot write up the reply.

Caladonn, I have replied to your comment on my thread. Sorry it took so long but I was very busy last week. We shall have fun RPing now hurray! As for Hyr, also replied to you.
Oh, don't worry it's fine. I've been pretty busy too.

Yes, we'll probably share a border soon too as I'm expanding into northern Colombia a bit- not enough to threaten you but enough to get some new trade.

Oda, could you -lease reply to Time?

And you invader guys seem to think we'll be a pushover, reamber this.

A) It's 4 nations vs 3 (In our favour!)

B) Our navys appear to be as powerful as yours at least. (Your relying on Foztopias navy mainly while we have combined our two. And we know the waters+We have supplys+We don't have supply lines+We have ports+We arn't carrying needless personell.)

C) The Austian population has been armed and is being trained up, as we speak. They have had AT LEAST 3 months training, probably more and are well armed and armoured. You may have experience, but what good that when your outnumbered. And we can fight a gurrila war, think how hard it's going to be to get anywhere when the villages are firing arrows at your troops all the time. it's demoralising, and deadly. While youc an slaughter all the villagers, what good would that do you?

D) Your discounting the Austian army, where a big nation and my men are vetrens from the wars of concuest.

To give Philanchez some relief, I created the newest map based on the conversations we have been having. Hope everyone agrees with it, if not let me know so I can be up to date if I'm wrong.

I added Hyr and Milchama, and myself to the map. I put part of Iran in conflict under Tadj's rule. And Kilani, I'm not sure where to put you at, seeing as your in Warshrike's domain. I guess we'll have to watch for a response out of Warshrike before we know that.

The Second Map is the map without the Sahara. I think ya'll probably want the second one but I'm not sure so I have both up here.

Map (http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/7526/untitled5gk.png) or Map2 (http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3531/untitled5nw.png)

I actually own about a hakf of that island/sub-continent south of India and Rodenka has laid claim to Spain and what's left of France.

not only that, but both of those were on the last official map :P

Por que? :confused:

Anyway...Kilani Empire expands! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10491148&postcount=14) (sort of)

And does anyone know if Warshrike even has a thread? Otherwise I'm just going to assume I can start building ports and stuff all over Madadasgcar.

Oda, could you -lease reply to Time?

C) The Austian population has been armed and is being trained up, as we speak. They have had AT LEAST 3 months training, probably more and are well armed and armoured. You may have experience, but what good that when your outnumbered. And we can fight a gurrila war, think how hard it's going to be to get anywhere when the villages are firing arrows at your troops all the time. it's demoralising, and deadly. While youc an slaughter all the villagers, what good would that do you?.

I'd just like to point out that if you do spend a lot of time training the vast majority of your population to fight, there is no one to harvest, build weapons, etc.

If Han gets involved Im pulling out. And invading Han. Im sick of those damn Chinese, and I reckon I can muster my full professional army of 400,000 (or even more), leave 60,000 at home and crush the bastards. Back up those Toop's while I'm at it, I've always liked them and remained neutral so my attack on Aust is unhindered.

It will learn those Chinese for being so Imperialistic.

Bah it shouldnt be too hard too pull back my troops.

Aust and co dont like it? Tough but I cant fight 4 nations at once, especially when 3 are at home and far from Frozopia. It was bad enough fighting Aust alone at home at such a distance.

And besides, conscripts struggle in guerilla war, and guerrilla war would suck when we have so many horses and you have none. We could just take your cities and let the guerrilla soldiers get bored.

To give Philanchez some relief, I created the newest map based on the conversations we have been having. Hope everyone agrees with it, if not let me know so I can be up to date if I'm wrong.

I added Hyr and Milchama, and myself to the map. I put part of Iran in conflict under Tadj's rule. And Kilani, I'm not sure where to put you at, seeing as your in Warshrike's domain. I guess we'll have to watch for a response out of Warshrike before we know that.

The Second Map is the map without the Sahara. I think ya'll probably want the second one but I'm not sure so I have both up here.

Map (http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/7526/untitled5gk.png) or Map2 (http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3531/untitled5nw.png)

I'm guessing you did not read that last reply concerning Iran, where I'd give it to you.

Oh and BTW when we said cut a bit out of Africa, we meant cut a bit so off so Europeans get easier access to the Pacific (like a channel). Like the land south of you Almoheds.

If Han gets involved Im pulling out. And invading Han. Im sick of those damn Chinese, and I reckon I can muster my full professional army of 400,000 (or even more), leave 60,000 at home and crush the bastards. Back up those Toop's while I'm at it, I've always liked them and remained neutral so my attack on Aust is unhindered.
You do that, we'll just sail up and invade you to save the han.

It will learn those Chinese for being so Imperialistic.

And you for being so imperialistic

Bah it shouldnt be too hard too pull back my troops.

Not hard at all, but you'd be pincered-your picnered anyway but still.

Aust and co dont like it? Tough but I cant fight 4 nations at once, especially when 3 are at home and far from Frozopia. It was bad enough fighting Aust alone at home at such a distance.
You can't blame me for making allinces, I want to save my nation.
[quote=Froztopia[
And besides, conscripts struggle in guerilla war, and guerrilla war would suck when we have so many horses and you have none. We could just take your cities and let the guerrilla soldiers get bored.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to see you try, seiges in this period are virtually impossable to do. And conscripts/villages. (Mine are just giving training and weapons-not enrolled in the army) are very effective at fighting a Gurrila war-look at the spanish. Horses are hard to sue in the deasert, we know the land and you don't.

I'd just like to point out that if you do spend a lot of time training the vast majority of your population to fight, there is no one to harvest, build weapons, etc.
Ah, but I'm doing diffrently to that. I have system where old vetrens are settled in villages. Now what I've done is told those vetrens to train up the villages in there spare time-ie: In the evenings. A village smithy can produce a sword/spear and a breastplater/helmate can't it? A Bow isn't hard to make.

So basically i can collect harvest, AND learn how to fight.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...who said I was opposing the invasion of Aust? I don't remember saying I was picking any side of the fence on that matter. So, don't be so quick to start pointing a sharp shiny thing at me Frozopia.

@ Aust: I'll get to it, I'm sorry that I haven't had time to reply for the last few days. :(



Also we have another problem. As of right now, Toops's armies are sitting in what is now, as of the last map update, Milchama's lands...so basically Toops has sort of brought war to Milchama by default. We need to figure out how we're going to sort this out, whether or not Milchama will let those armies sit there, ya'know?

Lol I would love to fight a defensive war. Of all the countries, mine is probably the easiest to defend. I reckon I could defend Frozopia against a force 10-15 times my own, I mean you will lose half your army to the cold.

And then you would be sailing across the Pacific. Have fun.

And as for the Spanish, although they were successful against Napoleon, without the British generally kicking ass all their guerrilla warfare woulda meant nothing: There armies crumbled quicker than a cake.

And dont worry Han, we will only invade you (or try) if you stirrup trouble.
Icily you would probably guess relations with Frozopia are not that great, and we are more friendly too Toops than yourself. So military action would have a reprisal.

Okay, here is the map based off of Phil's map that I did not know existed. I changed my territory to the Middle East. And we can go from there. I also cut off the Sahara.

Map (http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/901/untitled1ge.png)

You still dont understand why I suggested cutting parts out of Africa........

You suggested it to make up for some of the land that ya'll added. ???

No to make a channel leading to the other side of Africa, giving Europeans better access to the Pacific.

Well all I know is that Ostia is colonizing Egypt, and has troops there, so I'm just going by where people actually are right now. I cut off the Sahara because ya'll said so, and nobody was there. Ostia is in that top part that's left.

Besides it makes it more interesting if they don't have direct access. If they have to go through Ostia to get to the Nile, or me or Qarez to get to the Red Sea, etc it makes for a better RP. More interaction.

Meh maybe. But timewise it just screws everyone over.

Does kali have a thread? (Maroon colour, to the left of me)

Ah, but I'm doing diffrently to that. I have system where old vetrens are settled in villages. Now what I've done is told those vetrens to train up the villages in there spare time-ie: In the evenings. A village smithy can produce a sword/spear and a breastplater/helmate can't it? A Bow isn't hard to make.

So basically i can collect harvest, AND learn how to fight.


So basically you'll have a bunch of half-trained militia?


And yes, I do have a thread. Please look here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469155)

Someone should really compile these and put them on the first post.

well, a lot of them were compiled a while back. but yeah, the newer ones need adding.

Ultimately what I see happening after the war is finished whatever the result is a tension filled pacific region with two blocs of allies. the triple alliance and Aust and the rest.

we'll have a PT cold war whatever happens

heh. that would be interesting. except, with the whole communications thing and a lack of nukes, it could very easyly become a hot one. an assasination, a raid, anything.. and BOOM!

I don't really like the cutting out of Africa thing. It makes it pretty hard for me to reach Europe.

Also, even if there is a cold war in the Pacific there will be major nations not involved: Me, Oda, and the two South American nations (Zanaarkand and Hyr).

And perhaps me, although I'll probably end up entering the war on Terror Incognita's side, as he's been the first to contact me.

If you have not been paying attention to my thread, I have conquered some islands in the atlantic, and am in the middle of 'civilizing' Sinai.

Note: This map has a canal that I edited to have the Nile river flow into the Red Sea, that way Ostia does not lose his troops and so Frozopia has his canal. I put the Sahara back so that Cal has easier access to Europe. Hope this one satisfies everybody. If I left anything out, please let me know.

OnN: I have not edited India to include your ownership of it. I need to know how far you have extended your border into India before I can put you on there.

Map (http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3387/untitled16jb.png)

i dub thee sir "eventually capable of given us a very nice map when you finaly get what we're on about" :) seriously, so far as i can tell, it looks good.

Just to note Almohed. I am right now already conquering whats left of India and the last battle for it is happening as we speak. So...add that in? Please. Thanks a lot.

Oda, you do need to reply to my thread at some point, please.

Oda, you do need to reply to my thread at some point, please.

Sry Angerman, I'll get on that right now.

Oda is almost involved in our "PT cold war". He just needs to choose a side.

I like that canal by the way. I was thinking a bigger one, but this is better. Puts the Almoheds and Qarez in a powerful position though, but that makes things interesting.

Updated Map (http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/449/untitled17dy.png)

Thnx Almohed. And just for everyones knowledge, thats the furthest that I plan to expand my Empire. As of right now I am churning those areas into Imperial provinces. I project that by this time next week, they will be fully incorporated.

Also, we all must consider how much our populations grow as we conquer. I'm guestimating here that I've conquered about anextra 30-50 million peoples. I leave that number to the judgement of everyone.

I've conquered the northern coast of South America, probably up to Zanarkaand, as well as the southern portion of North America. I have a few colonies in the Carribean as well.

Argh I hate that nations have increased their nations sized massively at no cost at all. Its lame.

And Oda I dont think you can they will be completely added to your empire in a week, because we arent measuring time like that. This time next week I will probably be invading Aust, and that will be like 2 months passed.

Argh I hate that nations have increased their nations sized massively at no cost at all. Its lame.

And Oda I dont think you can they will be completely added to your empire in a week, because we arent measuring time like that. This time next week I will probably be invading Aust, and that will be like 2 months passed.


Well the passing of time is relative...I mean my talks with Angermanland or Aust are taking place in the same time, and will be happening for some time. It doesn' take that long. So I would think that its all happening while at the same time your invading aust...its all relative.

I know I know but theres gotta be limits arent there? I thought full integration would take years......

I know I know but theres gotta be limits arent there? I thought full integration would take years......

Of course I don't mean full intergration, but yes they'll be provinces officially by that time. And your invasion, the size of it, should take a couple years as well...

Updated Map (http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6740/untitled15kz.png)

heh. i figure he'd have them all nicely intergrated except for any particularly troublesome hot spots by the time the war in Aust is done though, yes? at least enough to be functional, mabey not paying all there taxes, and mabey prone to banditry, but *shrugs*

So basically you'll have a bunch of half-trained militia?


And yes, I do have a thread. Please look here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469155)

Someone should really compile these and put them on the first post.
better than having nobody, without training or weapons.