NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm not sure if those nations have production rights. In fact, Russia has been having problems supplying client nations with spare parts, evidence that these nations don't produce their own parts. This problem with Russia is one of the reasons the Indians went on their own MBT program [the Arjun], as well as the fact that the fact that Pakistan had equally capable tanks from the Soviet Union [an arms race after 1971].

China/Russia produced them...but considering Russia has problems and ended production years ago and China is the same....who would I obtain these from.

Where is God when we need him?



Mon Dieu! Je vous en prie! Revenez-ici et guidez-nous a la verite de toutes nos problemes! Sauvez-nous!!! Sauvez-nous, sinon nous nous detruirons!!!

China/Russia produced them...but considering Russia has problems and ended production years ago and China is the same....who would I obtain these from.


Ask Russia for full production rights.

that taiwan news report was pointless in my opinion
Also, if you are gunna complain about my space program then complain about invasions by austraillia, or italy, or the one china crap by taiwan. i told you before i cared about reality, but that does seem to be going on here. besides, working on for 5-6 years would work. We will be working with other nations also so it will succeed since we can get more accomplished than the real nations.


Omg, we did, and still are complaining about it. Plus, just because it seems every one else is doing something completely out of touch with reality, DOES NOT mean that you have to follow them!

NO NO NO NO NO!

Must some use others as excuses for their actions?


*Deep Breath.*

I'm good... Yeah...

Where is God when we need him?

Seriously, he was on for 5 min, and didnt answer any of my questions(Including moving to the offsite forum, even though it was like, 2 posts before him)

Omg, we did, and still are complaining about it. Plus, just because it seems every one else is doing something completely out of touch with reality, DOES NOT mean that you have to follow them!

NO NO NO NO NO!

Must some use others as excuses for their actions?


*Deep Breath.*

I'm good... Yeah...

seconded...

Seriously, he was on for 5 min, and didnt answer any of my questions(Including moving to the offsite forum, even though it was like, 2 posts before him)

WE NEED GOD BACK!!! THE HEATHENS HAVE STOLEN THE TEMPLE FROM US!!! THEY TRASH THE WORLD WITH ... STUFF!!!

OH, MIGHTY GOD!!! COME BACK TO US!!!

[on that note, we really need Sel to come in and lay the smack down on this thread...]

seconded...

Thirded. Even I'm trying to keep it real, moderating my steps as I go....

I can TG the link to the forum for anyone who wants it for now..

Naktan, Geneticon, and CSJ, check your TG's.

Sure, send it to me, Maikeria on NS

so we have a secret that we have. you didnt stop australia, you just complain in-character. So we might not have started it 5 years ago, you now complain?

dios mio

so we have a secret that we have. you didnt stop australia, you just complain in-character. So we might not have started it 5 years ago, you now complain?

dios mio

The problem is, we couldn't do much else but complain in IC. What were we going to do? Go to war with them? Mac tried to get him to fight, and so did a few other nations. What happened? Asbena continually BS'ed OOC'ly until people just didn't wanted fight him IC'ly anymore.

As far as I've seen, you're doing almost exactly the same thing.

Australia/Asbena couldn't be reasoned with even OOC'ly, and you're starting to be as uncooperative as he was, and sometimes continues to be.

Do you honestly want to be like him?

Plus, it is far more reasonable for Taiwan to start declaring independence than for Poland, with no productive manned space program what so ever, to start "leading humanity" into space anytime in 2020.


Please, I beg, be reasonable about this. Though it pains me to say it somewhat, as Asbena is my RL friend, we don't need another Asbena!

To Sel once he gets back:
Since Chile is never active could it be forfieted and given to me as an NPC nation? Argentina has some plans for it that cant be done while the owners unactive

Please, I beg, be reasonable about this. Though it pains me to say it somewhat, as Asbena is my RL friend, we don't need another Asbena! Wow, I feel sorry for you man. Good luck with that.

USSNA, I'm still waiting for you to post about the whole Azerbaijan situation.

Safehaven2 you have control of Djibouti now. Also how have I been doing in this rp?

The problem is, we couldn't do much else but complain in IC. What were we going to do? Go to war with them? Mac tried to get him to fight, and so did a few other nations. What happened? Asbena continually BS'ed OOC'ly until people just didn't wanted fight him IC'ly anymore.

As far as I've seen, you're doing almost exactly the same thing.

Australia/Asbena couldn't be reasoned with even OOC'ly, and you're starting to be as uncooperative as he was, and sometimes continues to be.

Do you honestly want to be like him?

Plus, it is far more reasonable for Taiwan to start declaring independence than for Poland, with no productive manned space program what so ever, to start "leading humanity" into space anytime in 2020.


Please, I beg, be reasonable about this. Though it pains me to say it somewhat, as Asbena is my RL friend, we don't need another Asbena!

Kyanges....wtf. He won't be to the moon by 2020...or even 2030. He won't be leading humanity or anything. That's for sure. People are using OOC stuff ICly, its my damn right not to have them confuse the two! It kills the RP completely.

We had this talk with Ebed in his thread for the space program. However he is in the ESA (Australia is not) and Poland would have to leave it before joining with Australia under any space program. Sadly...who else but Macabees would take a CLEARLY MARKED SIC Telegram and say something ICly about it which sets off Ebed and Seaquest. I just wish we could get things down.

IC means IC. OOC can be about anything IC, SIC whatever but has no IC bearing. SIC means UNLESS it was to you, it doesn't get recognized ICly.

Kyanges....wtf. He won't be to the moon by 2020...or even 2030. He won't be leading humanity or anything. That's for sure. People are using OOC stuff ICly, its my damn right not to have them confuse the two! It kills the RP completely.

We had this talk with Ebed in his thread for the space program. However he is in the ESA (Australia is not) and Poland would have to leave it before joining with Australia under any space program. Sadly...who else but Macabees would take a CLEARLY MARKED SIC Telegram and say something ICly about it which sets off Ebed and Seaquest. I just wish we could get things down.

IC means IC. OOC can be about anything IC, SIC whatever but has no IC bearing. SIC means UNLESS it was to you, it doesn't get recognized ICly.

[ooc: why is there a debate on this? if Spain receives a SIC and makes it an IC, it's their choice...even if it makes the originial host upset...

and if we agree that Poland won't be doing anything fantastic, why is there a debate on whether he could or not?]

Kyanges....wtf. He won't be to the moon by 2020...or even 2030. He won't be leading humanity or anything. That's for sure. People are using OOC stuff ICly, its my damn right not to have them confuse the two! It kills the RP completely.

We had this talk with Ebed in his thread for the space program. However he is in the ESA (Australia is not) and Poland would have to leave it before joining with Australia under any space program. Sadly...who else but Macabees would take a CLEARLY MARKED SIC Telegram and say something ICly about it which sets off Ebed and Seaquest. I just wish we could get things down.

IC means IC. OOC can be about anything IC, SIC whatever but has no IC bearing. SIC means UNLESS it was to you, it doesn't get recognized ICly.

Just read what he said in his threads. Thanks. If there's anything else, just call me, so both of us can avoid contributing to spamming this thread up any further.

EDIT: Oi, nvm.

At this point Spain is unwilling to engage in bilateral talks with the Moroccan government. We have given the king more than enough time to respond, including an extension of the first ultimatum. At this point, Morrocan lack of cooperation but steady silence is only seen as a ploy to extend the time until war. That said, Spain will stick by this final ultimatum, which is quickly running out of time. Should Morocco fail to respond it will be taken as a denial of Spain's listed requirements for peace and is a warrant for war. Spain has counted on MINURSO and has helped the Polisario Front and Saharaui for the past two decades, yet peace has not been established and progression is completed at a snail's pace. It is time for Morocco to leave, or to be forcefully removed.

[nothing against you Spain...]

Someone please play Morocco! this is about to get hot and I feel too biased to join in... [France is officially the only other country that recognizes Morocco's claim...]

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472954

Well, based on the telegram Sel sent me, I THINK I'm in as Peru. Now to figure out what the heck is going on...

I created Peru's diplomacy thread here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=473631)

Well, based on the telegram Sel sent me, I THINK I'm in as Peru. Now to figure out what the heck is going on...

welcome to the mess that is the future, 5 years from now...

check out the front page for the list of threads...

high priority check outs are the UN and any organization that you are joined with [I don't think much else that that has made here...]...

Aslo, be my ally. Please, please, please, be the USA's bi---. lol. Naw, do what you will. I know you will within reason. Thanks.)

Sel, please reply about moving the forum ! Please !

Sign me up for Vatican City please.

Sign me up for Vatican City please.

He's back! {RUN AWAY!} >.>

He's back! {RUN AWAY!} >.>

who's he?

He wanted the Vatican before I think. No one took notice, it was like 2 weeks ago. I dunno. He's the only one that wants the power to control the Pope. x-x

Oh dear...

Sel, please reply about moving the forum ! Please !
I dont think its necessary and we've already started. It'll be hard to move also.

Sign me up for Vatican City please.
The Vatican isn't a country...it's a part of Rome. Personally, I'm pissed that people recognize the Vatican, but won't recognize Israel's rightful claims. (RL) TO answer you...no

Ok, seeing that quite a few people have complained, I'm purging out a few people. I'm sorry I have to do this.
THESUPREMERULERMATTHEW-Taiwan is no longer in the RP...who let him in in the first place? I would never have done that. Also, you're name shows your immaturity...all caps.

Warnings to:
Poland-Space Program is unrealistic
Italy-I'm not sure what you're doing, but please don't do it again.
Austrailia-Don't pull off a Somalia thing again or claim to have technology you can't have. As others said, money only speeds things up a tiny bit. "A billion dollars don't make a cow moo."

If anyone else deserves a warning or purge, please tell me.

I'm going to try to update the front stuff as best as I can now.

Oh dear...

I dont think its necessary and we've already started. It'll be hard to move also.


I'm going to try to update the front stuff as best as I can now.


Hard hardly, all it would require is the copy-past of the major threads, and let it continue from there. The majority of the work would be getting all the nations to register. Necessarily wise, i wish to reinstate that yes, it may seem unecessarily, but it would help in the long, and short run. As i have discussed with the Macabees, the OOC Thread would continue for a refrence to open threads and such, whilist the majority of the rping would take place on the Forum. The current RP mods would be appointed as mods, and would allow for an easier reference point of threads, and generally make it easier to find stuff. Plus it is already made and still being tested around with, although i can dump it if you want.

As i am not usually the one to argue, i just wish that you consider this.

Sel Appa I think your 'warning' is wrong about the technology. Cold Plasma (NOT COLD FUSION as even you though I said) is viable, practical and already in current existance. I haven't pushed anything on the technology spectrum as other nations have. (Aka...Railgun boat ships at 2011 that are better then the USA's one planned or the Space Program for Poland or previous Argentina with Lafeyettes.) Some sympathy for viable technology. Though Somalia invading the warlords state....sure.

Reminding me...its been two WEEKS I asked for someone to be Somalia. Can I RP southern Somalia taking proper control of the North now? Our military operation is done.

Sel Appa I think your 'warning' is wrong about the technology. Cold Plasma (NOT COLD FUSION as even you though I said) is viable, practical and already in current existance. I haven't pushed anything on the technology spectrum as other nations have. (Aka...Railgun boat ships at 2011 that are better then the USA's one planned or the Space Program for Poland or previous Argentina with Lafeyettes.) Some sympathy for viable technology. Though Somalia invading the warlords state....sure.

Reminding me...its been two WEEKS I asked for someone to be Somalia. Can I RP southern Somalia taking proper control of the North now? Our military operation is done.

(OOC: Military...done?! You mean completely out of there!? Hurrah! One block out of the way, one more until that embargo is gone!


Oh yeah, the plasma thing exists, yes, but it is neither viable, nor practical. Not at least until 2025 for making some small clouds of the stuff.)

I would need to make the forum if we were to switch over. I'm saying Austrailia couldn't have it...they could buy it. Maybe we should stay off wacko technology like this and just keep it sane. Also, if you're name is marked with a ` on the first page, I have deemed you inactive and may kick you out soon. Please advise me to any mistakes...I probably made a few. Monday will probably be when I clean them out.

(OOC: Military...done?! You mean completely out of there!? Hurrah! One block out of the way, one more until that embargo is gone!


Oh yeah, the plasma thing exists, yes, but it is neither viable, nor practical. Not at least until 2025 for making some small clouds of the stuff.)

Its NOT A WEAPON! CSJ made that clear it would have MINIMAL effects and it would not be worthy to fund the program or the time into it for MILITARY application. We are using it to sterilze food and soon maybe medical tools. Though we are putting money into that to research time, frequency and effects for it.

You don't need a damn cloud for that.

Oh and Sel? The way to make, produce and contain it is internationally known to scientists, the usage of it is well-known to. (Hell I found an Australian site that advertises cleaning surfaces with the damn thing. A few American ones to.) Its hardly a wacko technology. ^-^ If you want I'll gather some sources for you.

Its NOT A WEAPON! CSJ made that clear it would have MINIMAL effects and it would not be worthy to fund the program or the time into it for MILITARY application. We are using it to sterilze food and soon maybe medical tools. Though we are putting money into that to research time, frequency and effects for it.

You don't need a damn cloud for that.

Oh and Sel? The way to make, produce and contain it is internationally known to scientists, the usage of it is well-known to. (Hell I found an Australian site that advertises cleaning surfaces with the damn thing. A few American ones to.) Its hardly a wacko technology. ^-^ If you want I'll gather some sources for you.

(OOC:

-WHERE THE HELL DID I SAY IT WAS?!. To take a page out of your book, READ GODS DAMN IT. I was responding to your military being out of Australia. READ FOR GOODNESS SAKE.
-I know. I can read thanks.
-You're repeating my own point.
-You've told me before
-You've told me before.

-How do you expect to cover the food without a cloud. A stream? Spay it on, wax on, wax off? Yes you do.


There.

Now...reply!)

Oh and Sel? The way to make, produce and contain it is internationally known to scientists, the usage of it is well-known to. (Hell I found an Australian site that advertises cleaning surfaces with the damn thing. A few American ones to.) Its hardly a wacko technology. ^-^ If you want I'll gather some sources for you.
Oh...it is? I'm so sorry. My subconcious is still set on cold fusion, even though I know you mean something different. Also, I didn't really know what you were talking about in the first place...as you have seen.

I RP an invasion and i get a warning for it? I wasnt aware that it was banned

Using the Laroussi method...sure, but its contained and fills the entire container. So its like a beam of light rather then a CLOUD....clouds tend not to be in jars and move freely around.

Let's source some:
http://www.odu.edu/ao/instadv/quest/coldplasma.html
http://www.air-techinternational.com/plasma.html
http://www.marklandtech.com/technology_portfolio/gasplasma5.html
http://www.icpig.uni-greifswald.de/proceedings/data/Laroussi_1
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/cold_plasma_000724.html

Atmospheric pressure plasmas or room temperature plasmas are known as cold plasmas. Cold plasmas have demonstrated effectiveness in rapid sterilization, decontamination and industrial processing. When generated, cold plasma is a bluish substance that resembles a foglike gas. But cold plasma can destroy deadly microbes lodged on the skin, weapons, medical instruments or clothing. Research has shown that plasma can rapidly break down complex chemicals found in nerve gas and deadly biological agents like anthrax.

Basically 100 watts for 1 Square inch of the beam at an ion density has been measured to be 10 exp 12 per cc.

Oh...it is? I'm so sorry. My subconcious is still set on cold fusion, even though I know you mean something different. Also, I didn't really know what you were talking about in the first place...as you have seen.

Oh np... not until 2050 or 2075 would I expect Cold Fusion to work. Even 2100 before Australia would be able to start construction on the reactor. We are moving towards the green side and reusable. The links I've posted are pretty good. It should be able to fly pretty easily, but only large companies will possess it, since it takes only several seconds to kill bacteria you could put your clothes in the machine and it will zap all the bacteria (like odor ones) and kill them off. Works wonders in the medical field you clean them in the beam after washing.

Nicest part (for military use): Research has shown that plasma can rapidly break down complex chemicals found in nerve gas and deadly biological agents like anthrax.

Cold plasma is nothing more than hot plasma that can be created and maintained at room temperature, and is fine as a cleaning device. Cold plasma in and of itself already exists and can be used in that context. We are that far. It can be a bit expensive compared to a paper towel and a can of lysol, but otherwise fine. The weapons side of this, at least in atmospheric conditions, has been refuted, but it's still a viable commercial product.


Spizania, as I understand it, the problem is that too many players are jumping in and starting off with invasions. The goal of this RP was to focus on the interrelationships of countries on a more or less realistic level, not start wars just for kicks. The problem is that the former is apparantly being forgotten while the latter is becoming too common. We've so far seen at least two nations that wouldn't invade someone else do so at this point, and in both cases this was started rather promptly after acceptance. Other nations have fought opponents the really wouldn't, and a third western nation is about to launch another invasion. This isn't how the countries would realistically act, and is contrary to the basis of this RP.

OOC: I understand that, its just that the whole basis of NS is warfare, that is unfortunately the most interesting kind of RP. And Spain has become radicalised after his coup, and my leaders are obcessing about rebuilding the glory of Rome by building an empire overseas, but they wont be so blantant when they go after the next target

I don't see how you can't be blatant about attacking someone and actually expect to invade them.

Anyway, for all interested, huge post here about what Danmark wants to do if it gets EU presidency:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10596878&postcount=133

I would need to make the forum if we were to switch over.

While that is understandable, the forum has already been made(unofficialy), all you would need to do is register and i will make you the administrator of the forum.

Ya...Australia is guilty of that. Why you think we are pressing for total economic control and expansion like Japan and China and America does? Dominance through economics lol!

By the Way Denmark, although you probably dont want to recognise this, i have also made major leaps in the field of renewable energy, i have 18 Solar Chimneys in Tunisia that will be online by Wednesday, they will provide a direct output of 4.5GW of electricity and support massive amounts of biomass for solid fuel burning and methane to be used in the production of synthetic oil. Plus a useful source of organic fertiliser.

By the Way Denmark, although you probably dont want to recognise this, i have also made major leaps in the field of renewable energy, i have 18 Solar Chimneys in Tunisia that will be online by Wednesday, they will provide a direct output of 4.6GW of electricity and support massive amounts of biomass for solid fuel burning and methane to be used in the production of synthetic oil. Plus a useful source of organic fertiliser.

what I won't recognize ICly is your claim to Tunisia.

Solar chimneys are not exactly new.

Yeah, but thats a huge amount of energy there. Im doing it on a scale never before attempted.

Yeah, but thats a huge amount of energy there. Im doing it on a scale never before attempted.

let me just check how much a single solar chimney is expected to produce, then I'll tell you how large they have to be :p

"It may sound like science fiction, but the project is on track to get approval by the Australian government. If completed, the $800 million solar tower will be the tallest man-made structure in the world." TIME Magazine November 2002

There's a price per solar chimney.

Current development and design of the World’s first commercial Solar Tower in Australian will have the capacity to produce up to 200MW

And there's the energy output per solar chimney.


So. 18*800m$=14400m$
18*200MW=3600MW

14.4 billion $ sounds like an awful lot of money. How long has this project been going on? (I'd be willing to say 10 billion $, due to economies of scale and technological improvements since those figures).

2004 budget for Italy saw about 370billion € in revenue.
http://www.rgs.mef.gov.it/ENGLISH-VE/Regulation/Budget-and/Budget-sum/Bunget-in-Brief-2004.pdf
I don't get how its possible to have 620billion € in expenditure.

please note: I may have gotten it wrong and it may be 370 million, so please double check.

You have to go through me on that...which is kinda messing with OUR tech and our stance.....you can't also just pop them up without forewarning. >.>

There's that too. This is Australian technology.

The Government doesnt pay for them all, at least not at once, alot of the cost is covered by major Italian businesses, Fiat owns two or three. The Government has also taken out millions of bonds with the Italian People, these will be slowly paid back over the next ten-twenty years.
A 250MW one with 2010 tech will be alot smaller (and cheaper to build) than the ones your talking about with tech from 2000? I also have a source of relatively cheap (by western european standards) labour

Its also Spanish Technology

There's that too. This is Australian technology.

Australia is currently pissed at Italy for their actions and since we are planning n using these ourselves, why would we do it? You're scaling is HUGE and downright messed up. The towers only need ONE person to watch them.

Italy...2010 tech is a little farfetched cause we haven't upgraded them in the past 10 years. The funding has taken a backseat to the production of the TDP plants. Though they ARE an option for providing power to the center of Australia.

They have to tend the farms that im running using the distilled water from the chimney

The Government doesnt pay for them all, at least not at once, alot of the cost is covered by major Italian businesses, Fiat owns two or three. The Government has also taken out millions of bonds with the Italian People, these will be slowly paid back over the next ten-twenty years.
A 250MW one with 2010 tech will be alot smaller (and cheaper to build) than the ones your talking about with tech from 2000? I also have a source of relatively cheap (by western european standards) labour

Its also Spanish Technology

It's Australian. The company is based in Australia and is on the Australian stock exchange. The plan was to have a WORKING one by 2010.

This venture will also capitalize on Australia's legislated target for electricity retailers to supply 9500GWh of annual electricity generation with renewable clean green electricity by 2010.

More recently Schlaich, Bergerman and Partner, under the direction of German engineer Prof. Dr. Ing. Jörg Schlaich, built a small scale working model of a solar chimney in 1982 in Manzanares, (Spain), 150 km south of Madrid, which was funded by the German Government. This power plant operated successfully for approximately 8 years and was decommissioned in 1989. The chimney had a diameter of 10 metres and a height of 195 metres, with a collection area (greenhouse) of 46,000 m² (about 11 acres) obtaining a maximum power output of about 50 kW.

That doesnt mention Australia at all

They have to tend the farms that im running using the distilled water from the chimney

Ahahahahah....no. That won't cut it.

I've been to Manzanares, and I missed it. :( Maybe it was deconstructed? Then again, it could have been the place they held the anual agriculture and vine convention there.

Why not? Why wont it cut it?

That doesnt mention Australia at all

They had approval and funded it themselves to PRODUCE the pilot plants. The plant belongs to the company and all rights of it are to. Its AUSTRALIAN property that has to be allowed by Australia to be built.

They may have provided the funding for it, but Australia has the final say (and the company which is in Australia) for construction and use of it.

For some reason I don't see it impossible that multiple nations have the ability to construct this.

Its a vertical TUBE with a greenhouse built at the bottom of it, that has got to be stupidly easy to engineer, especially for a first world nation

Aww Mac...I'll see, the thing should still be operational. These things last 50 years without major maintaince supposively. (Concrete tower)


Why not? Why wont it cut it?

Its not going to produce water to water your damn farms.

Aww Mac...I'll see, the thing should still be operational. These things last 50 years without major maintaince supposively. (Concrete tower)


IIRC, it was decomissioned; at least that's what it said in the quote. TBH, I haven't seen it, even though I've been to Manzanares.

You can make water with it, you simply pump water into the greenhouses at the bottom and then recondense it at the top of the tower after its turned the turbines and can fall back down outside the tower

Its a vertical TUBE with a greenhouse built at the bottom of it, that has got to be stupidly easy to engineer, especially for a first world nation

Its 5 KILOMETERS in DIAMETER for the collector.

Macabees....others could construct this, just not legally. Its the product of this company and you can't go around copying their product, espically when your an enemy of Australia for attacking Tunisa. The Australian government won't allow it to be constructed if he asks ICly.

You can make water with it, you simply pump water into the greenhouses at the bottom and then recondense it at the top of the tower after its turned the turbines and can fall back down outside the tower

Yes you can recondense it, but this is meant to be operated in DRY CONDITIONS. Not sub-tropical or anything, the air moves slower and isn't as effective, so you wouldn't do that. Also...why would want to take out all the water, its not like it will solve the water issue with the farms, it won't be enough.

So, the EU are going to prosecute me for developing a design that has been around along time before the Solar Tower company came along.
And it should be enough, being as there are only two ways for water to escape the farms, up the chimney, where it gets recondensed, or through the biomass, where it will be captured during the composting process.
And since i recondense it after it has left the tower, cooling it has no effect, infact it might make the turbine go faster as the air will drop back down on the outside of the tower creating a zone of low pressure over the top of the tower.

Macabees....others could construct this, just not legally. Its the product of this company and you can't go around copying their product, espically when your an enemy of Australia for attacking Tunisa. The Australian government won't allow it to be constructed if he asks ICly.

Apparently Spain constructed one...legally,at that. Your technology doesn't belong to you - and just as well, we could make what we call a new 'variant.

EnviroMission owns the exclusive Australian license to revolutionary German designed technology that will generate 200MW of clean green renewable energy to around 200,000 households from a single Solar Tower power station. In consideration for this license agreement SolarMission has received (on a fully diluted basis) 39.4% of EnviroMission.

We are the EXCLUSIVE owners of the license.

All these links mention Spain:

http://www.volker-quaschning.de/articles/fundamentals2/index_e.html
http://alt-e.blogspot.com/2005/02/site-agreed-for-australian-solar-tower.html
http://www.globalwarmingsolutions.co.uk/the_solar_chimney.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_chimney
http://www.gluckman.com/SolarChimney.html

In fact, they say that a prototype was tested in Manzanares, and Australia is planning to build one now, while they're also planning to construct on in China, and apparently India and Sri Lanka.

This isnt a "Solar Tower power station", this is a solar chimney

This isnt a "Solar Tower power station", this is a solar chimney

Same thing, IIRC.

No technically not, the Solar Tower is a version of a Solar Chimney which includes upgrades put in by the Australians, a solar Chimney need not be a Solar Tower

No technically not, the Solar Tower is a version of a Solar Chimney which includes upgrades put in by the Australians, a solar Chimney need not be a Solar Tower

But this is irrelevent, since it indicates that Spain does have the technology, for one orthe other.

No technically not, the Solar Tower is a version of a Solar Chimney which includes upgrades put in by the Australians, a solar Chimney need not be a Solar Tower

Yep. A solar chimney is only 2% efficent while the Australian one is 30-40% efficent. The solar chimney is allowable (its not the companies work), but the problem is that it is really crappy in the long run for the energy used. Only the Solar Tower will provide the energy he is seeking for.

Australia's only existing solar power station, White Cliffs Solar Power Station, was originally built using solar dish/steam turbine technology, but has now been upgraded to photovoltaic to obtain almost twice the electric output from the same dishes.

Enviromission is also working with Sunshine Energy (Aust.) Pty Ltd. who have made an initial USD$8,000,000 investment to enable development of this technology in China, and a third Solar Tower is reputedly to be built in Texas although few details are available.
That is the company that owns the license...and they are producing it for China.

More recently Schlaich, Bergerman and Partner, under the direction of German engineer Prof. Dr. Ing. Jörg Schlaich, built a small scale working model of a solar chimney in 1982 in Manzanares, (Spain), 150 km south of Madrid, which was funded by the German Government. This power plant operated successfully for approximately 8 years and was decommissioned in 1989. The chimney had a diameter of 10 metres and a height of 195 metres, with a collection area (greenhouse) of 46,000 m² (about 11 acres) obtaining a maximum power output of about 50 kW.

Meaning the spain one was a Solar Chimney...not the Solar Tower.

Yea, and since the company is private, it can sell to anyone. But that's besides the point. It's not illegal to develope and build the technology yourself; then it would be illegal to build a nuclear bomb, since the USA built the first bomb, by that logic. The same logic would apply to nuclear reactors, et cetera.

But this is irrelevent, since it indicates that Spain does have the technology, for one orthe other.

You can both use the damn solar chimneys! HOWEVER, the Australian one is more efficent (by 15x) and is EXCLUSIVE to Australia. 50 Kw is nothing compared to 200 Mw.

The whole point is, Italy wants to use our companies technology and build 18+ of these to produce energy. He'd have to produce 270+ Solar Chimneys to produce the same amount of power that the Solar Towers would provide.

You can both use the damn solar chimneys! HOWEVER, the Australian one is more efficent (by 15x) and is EXCLUSIVE to Australia. 50 Kw is nothing compared to 200 Mw.

The whole point is, Italy wants to use our companies technology and build 18+ of these to produce energy. He'd have to produce 270+ Solar Chimneys to produce the same amount of power that the Solar Towers would provide.


We could always....you know, what an idea! We can always design our own.

Yea, and since the company is private, it can sell to anyone. But that's besides the point. It's not illegal to develope and build the technology yourself; then it would be illegal to build a nuclear bomb, since the USA built the first bomb, by that logic. The same logic would apply to nuclear reactors, et cetera.

Actually....no, the article clearly states they need approval from the government.

"It may sound like science fiction, but the project is on track to get approval by the Australian government. If completed, the $800 million solar tower will be the tallest man-made structure in the world."
Meaning....he has to go through the government for the Solar Tower.

Yea, but what are you going to do about it? I doubt the Soviet Union asked the American government for permission to build a nuclear reactor, nuclear bomb and an intercontinental ballistic missile. By your logic the Soviet Union would have never had what they had because they had to go to western nations to ask permission...yea...right.

We could always....you know, what an idea! We can always design our own.

Go ahead....though it can't be Solar Tower based. Aka massive dish field, tower, photovoltatic panels and all the other upgrades on the collector which are produced by the company. Though...don't forget the Australian one is going to be 1000 METERS tall. The Solar Chimneys are hardly that.

The chimney had a diameter of 10 metres and a height of 195 metres, with a collection area (greenhouse) of 46,000 m² (about 11 acres) obtaining a maximum power output of about 50 kW.

So ya... Go ahead, but it takes 20 years to research that far and we'll be having a 2000 meter one in 10-20 years probably. (Oh god...that is so USA.)

No, that was a test example, i can build one as tall as i want.

Yea, but what are you going to do about it? I doubt the Soviet Union asked the American government for permission to build a nuclear reactor, nuclear bomb and an intercontinental ballistic missile. By your logic the Soviet Union would have never had what they had because they had to go to western nations to ask permission...yea...right.

*Sigh* Russian nuclear program is clearly inferior to American nuclear program. It works, but it doesn't work WELL. Its a cheap knock-off that has vastly inferior safety standards then the Americans do. Soviet reactors, bombs and ICBMs are not American technology, they are produced differently and are different, also they are MILITARY.

Copyrights and patents are made for a reason, since both your butts (and China..etc) recognize it, your government cannot steal the work of Australia (like you have the research specs, data, knowledge and inner workings of it anyways) to produce a carbon copy of our technology and how it works!

You can produce something, but Australia has 20+ years of research ahead of you on it. Since this is 2011. Its already THIRTY years. Meaning at least 20 years ahead of France and thirty ahead of Italy's.

No, that was a test example, i can build one as tall as i want.

You don't have the research behind it. You have to build your own since the decomissioning and destruction of it.

Sel, I believe you may have missed my request in the pages and pages.
I would like to RP as Colombia, though i want to state plainly I can only post about once a day if that is alright. I do realize this group moves at good pace.


On the matter of Solar Towers....wow.

First things first.
The "Austrailian" Solar Tower was, financed by the German government, The research was lead by Jörg Schlaich, He is a senior partner with Schlaich Bergermann Partners--a leading consulting engineering firm of Stuttgart, Germany(not Stuttgart Austrailia).

"Solar Tower™" "Solar Tower Turbine Cluster™"
"Enviromission™" "AEldwood™"
are all pending trademarks and service marks of the
AEldwood Global Group of Companies and the STCIA.

Solar Tower™ Renewable Energy Alliance of America LLC (Yes that is an AMERICAN Limited Liability Coporation--AMERICAN, say it with me now.

Here lays the best part---since we are all missing the all important international patent numbers
"STCIA (Solar Tower Cooperative Investment Alliance STCIA) has unique PATENT PENDING technology that specifically addresses the market need for volume production of 100% green affordable electricity and hydrogen fuel, in line with current energy legislation in California and the Kyoto protocol and conforms to eco-freindly trends in sustainable lifestyle modeling internationally. The trademarks and patents pending have been licensed to a Not-for-Profit organiztion in the best interest of the Global Public Trust."


"After careful investigation and multiple due diligence having been performed, the Australian Government support for the Solar Tower project in Australia has exceeded expectations and the project has received major project facilitation (MPF) status for assistance and associated tax benefits through the Federal Aus-industry and Invest Australia. The STCIA (Solar Tower Cooperative Invesment Alliance) is now considering plans to build in the western deserts of the USA and China. Similar substantive support is anticipated in all industrialized nations."

The STCIA has this to say aboutthe technology:
"Anti-Monopoly and Non- Exclusivity


There should be no attempts made by any private entity, body corporate or national institution to monopolize this industry, nor should there be any attempts made to obtain exclusive rights to geopolitical areas where such technology may be constructed and put to use. It should be governed by cooperatively based, earth-friendly organizations, subject to democratic rule, who in turn work together, in a harmonious and profitable relationship, with the various globally based industry leaders who exhibit a working commitment to building a world based on sustainable lifestyles and earth-friendly technologies and who adhere to the The Global Compact as an initiative to safeguard sustainable growth within the context of globalization by promoting a core set of universal values which are fundamental to meeting the socio-economic needs of the world's people."

They further that statement with this:
"The Solar Tower Cooperative Investment Alliance (STCIA)
supports the principles of the Global Compact,
http://www.unglobalcompact.org
(the UN website does not seem to work well with explorer, recommend you use netscape or another browser) and will continue to promote projects, events, and publications, which follow these principles;

The Compact's Nine Principles


The Global Compact asks the private sector to embrace, support and enact a set of core values within their sphere of influence in the areas of labor standards, human rights, and environmental practices.


Human Rights

1.) Businesses should support and respect the protection of internationally proclaimed human rights; and

2.) make sure they are not complicit in human rights abuses.



Labor

3.) Businesses should uphold the freedom of association and
the effective recognition of the right to collective bargaining;

4.) the elimination of all forms of forced and compulsory labor;

5.) the effective abolition of child labor; and

6.) eliminate discrimination in respect of employment and occupation.



Environment

7.) Businesses should support a precautionary approach to environmental challenges;

8.) undertake initiatives to promote greater environmental responsibility; and

9.) encourage the development and diffusion of environmental friendly technologies."

Anyway it all pretty much goes on like that.

If you would like I can list as many nations as possible who have companies involved with AEldwood Global Group of Companies
and the
Solar Tower Cooperative Investment Alliance STCIA.

Of course the "Global Group of Companies" and the above policy on Anti-Monopoly practices by the group pretty much say it all.

And Asbena, the guy you keep naming is German and works for a German company.

And again please note "Environmission" is merely a small and single subsidiary in a global group of companies involved in this project spanning several govenments.

What did our German friend have to say when interveiwed about the project?

"Alexandra de Blas: So you’re quite confident that this tower will not become a white elephant?

Jorg Schlaich: I’m not confident, I am sure.

Alexandra de Blas: Why are you building it in Australia and not in Europe?"

I wonder why she would ask that if this was an Austrailian company?....oh wait it isnt.

But here is his answer:
"Jorg Schlaich: Well basically we would be happy to build it anywhere where there is ample free land and we have sun. And this could be in the Sahara Desert but we are very happy that the Australians came and said, ‘No, it should be our desert, we want to do it, we have the courage to do it’ because you need courage, it’s a big investment. All the technology is here, the capability is here to finance and organise such a project. But if this is done successfully here, it will have a tremendous impact on other countries."


This is not nor has it ever been exclusively Austrailian technology, so stop it.

*Sigh* Russian nuclear program is clearly inferior to American nuclear program. It works, but it doesn't work WELL. Its a cheap knock-off that has vastly inferior safety standards then the Americans do. Soviet reactors, bombs and ICBMs are not American technology, they are produced differently and are different, also they are MILITARY.

Copyrights and patents are made for a reason, since both your butts (and China..etc) recognize it, your government cannot steal the work of Australia (like you have the research specs, data, knowledge and inner workings of it anyways) to produce a carbon copy of our technology and how it works!

You can produce something, but Australia has 20+ years of research ahead of you on it. Since this is 2011. Its already THIRTY years. Meaning at least 20 years ahead of France and thirty ahead of Italy's.

ehh, why bother? France is going nuclear anyway :)

As is Japan, we have too much rain ;)


And Asbena, I do believe that the "authorization from the Australian government" mean authorization to build the facility in Australia. This is actually not an Australian company, and is in no way bound to the whims of your nation.

That said, Italy would probably still be stonewalled because of their recent aggressive actions, which would certainly upset the nations that do exert firm control. So, what I would say is that the following apply:
1) Australia cannot deny the tower to Italy
2) Italy cannot build one on their own at this time
3) Italy probably cannot get the towers due to their recent actions. The US would have final say here, but I would at least wait until the international community calms down.


And everyone, please remember that just because a facility was built in your nation doesn't mean you're the one that has the rights to it. The Toshiba 4S that I'm exporting soon is a good case in point. It's first appearing in the US, but the US has no right to sell it or to prevent it from being sold to someone else. Heck, they can't even build one without my approval. It's still a Japanese design.

http://www.solarmissiontechnologies.com/index.html

That's the link. We both agree about its owner. He was trying to use something of a company. Which is patented and BELONGS to the company. Do you have a list for your sources?

The Australian version is upgraded then the Solar Chimney. The rights BELONG to the company.

Edit: I quote:



SolarMission's technical/engineering collaborator for the Solar Tower is the world-renowned structural engineering firm of Schlaich Bergermann & Partners, based in Stuttgart, Germany. Schlaich Bergermann and Partner were founded in 1980 and are considered world leaders in structural engineering. The firm has a powerhouse of around 50 professionals on staff.

For over 20 years, they have been inventors and developers of various solar power technologies. Schlaich Bergermann & Partners' architectural work is world renowned for its sustained individuality and astute attention to aesthetics. Their company's work has been hugely influential in shaping and advancing modern structural engineering, and many of their innovations have paved the way for future methods of design.

*Sigh* Russian nuclear program is clearly inferior to American nuclear program. It works, but it doesn't work WELL. Its a cheap knock-off that has vastly inferior safety standards then the Americans do. Soviet reactors, bombs and ICBMs are not American technology, they are produced differently and are different, also they are MILITARY.

Copyrights and patents are made for a reason, since both your butts (and China..etc) recognize it, your government cannot steal the work of Australia (like you have the research specs, data, knowledge and inner workings of it anyways) to produce a carbon copy of our technology and how it works!

You can produce something, but Australia has 20+ years of research ahead of you on it. Since this is 2011. Its already THIRTY years. Meaning at least 20 years ahead of France and thirty ahead of Italy's.

And just to blow another hole in your argument - the USSR had WAY more nukes than the USA did

And just to blow another hole in your argument - the USSR had WAY more nukes than the USA did

Irrelvant. We aren't discussing that.

I know - but you were using it as part of your argument earlier...

See the quote in my earlier post?

http://www.solarmissiontechnologies.com/index.html

That's the link. We both agree about its owner. He was trying to use something of a company. Which is patented and BELONGS to the company. Do you have a list for your sources?

The Australian version is upgraded then the Solar Chimney. The rights BELONG to the company.

Edit: I quote:
SolarMission Technologies is a US-based company. They happen to have over 35% of the stock in EnviroMission Limited, which is the (Australian) company that will be contracted to build the Australian facility. However, the controlling patent is owned by a US-based company, so you don't have the right to deny it without the US. You can probably talk them into it and get an agreement, but you can't deny the technology on your own.
They only hint about it on their site, but a specific mentioning of attempts to get the US government to allow one in the southwest (generic) suggests that they're an American group.

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=printfriendly&id=4075
http://www.solarmissiontechnologies.com/FAQs.htm

Oh, and to I have to get permission from Sel to form an alliance? (something along the lines of "The Union of South American States") - and if that's OK, I'd like to NPC Columbia for the purpose of having it join - and the drug trade has interesting RP opportunities...

You should be okay with that. Sel can invoke the hand of god and smite thine alliance if he so desires, but this is a more realistic one and should be perfectly fine.

Edit:
I would be careful about moving too quickly though, and having another PC with you would seriously boost your credibility.

And for NPCing Columbia...?

Officially, Sel has to recognize you to make it an NPC. However, if no one's using it and you could use it, there probably won't be much of a problem, especially if you keep it realistic.

I'll check with Sel first anyway. Better safe then sorry - or worse, banned.

Isn't Enviromission trying to get one running in Texas though? That's all the information about the position. They are also doing the same for China.....I don't get these companies. From one I get that they contracted the firm and using their design for it. Though wouldn't that mean since it was contracted under the company that all of it (and the design for the Solar Tower ONLY) would belong to Australia? Though I know completely that the TYPE of technology is old, and the Australian version is different and is superior. Though...when building these anyone can build a solar chimney and I am saying that Italy cannot build the Solar Tower of Australia. (that much I do know)

We have a way of really getting off topic. >.>

1. Italy can build a solar chimney....they don't have the research or any backing for it, but they can start.
2. He might just want to get one that uses water instead for Italy
3. The German company made the design and owns it...yes...we know it.
4. Anyone that wants the Solar Tower straight from Australia and is our enemy, you won't get it.
5. Anyone that is neutral/ally will get it, provided they ask and pay a small amount for the data.

And for NPCing Columbia...?

Someone specifically asked for Columbia. I think...

Ah yes...found it!

Post #1429 - Skibereen asked for Columbia.

According to the SolarMission site, they have the exclusive rights to the Solar Tower technology, and licensed the technology to EnviroMission for the purposes of the Australian site. There may be elements controlled by EnviroMission, but SolarMission can sell the important aspects of the design, and can get one out to Italy's specs. That's a US group. Thus, you don't have exclusive rights to deny the technology in general, and I don't know if you even have the right to deny the design you would have.

I would say that the US should have a say in the matter, as they have the company with the controlling rights. Until I find proof that EnviroMission has the controlling rights, that would be my call.

If the US company holds 35% of the stock....they have a good say, but still up to Australia really. It may have been rash, but this is OOC not IC. We can outright say how things would go or very likely go. ^-^ Though some IC pressure can change that....though OOC doesn't have those pressures.

And your point is? - It's not like he's been approved - until then....

If the US company holds 35% of the stock....they have a good say, but still up to Australia really. It may have been rash, but this is OOC not IC. We can outright say how things would go or very likely go. ^-^ Though some IC pressure can change that....though OOC doesn't have those pressures.

I will have a say. Thank you.

And your point is? - It's not like he's been approved - until then....

He'd get approved before your NPC status would, because his is basically 200 posts earlier.

Kyanges....LOL!

He'd get approved before your NPC status would, because his is basically 200 posts earlier.

Kyanges....LOL!

NANI!?!?!?

Oh, and BTW, there's a Naruto movie on WinAmp right now. Yay!

Yes, which was also before my last request to control Peru - I think. There goes THAT argument...

OOC: >.> THAT'S IT NO SHUFFLE! FOR YOU! No Loveless! No Slayers! No Kenshin! No Love Hina! No Abenobashi! No DearS! No NARUTOOOOOOOOO!

Ooc: Wtf?

OOC: >.> THAT'S IT NO SHUFFLE! FOR YOU! No Loveless! No Slayers! No Kenshin! No Love Hina! No Abenobashi! No DearS! No NARUTOOOOOOOOO!

(Alex Trebek voice): Beautiful.

OOC: >.> THAT'S IT NO SHUFFLE! FOR YOU! No Loveless! No Slayers! No Kenshin! No Love Hina! No Abenobashi! No DearS! No NARUTOOOOOOOOO!

Yeah, let's end the Anime stuff right now... Back to NS... *cough*

SURE!

Resdyn NO! WRONG! Your post was #1446; his post was BEFORE yours.

SURE!

Resdyn NO! WRONG! Your post was #1446; his post was BEFORE yours.


That's my point - if Sel was going to accept him, he'd have done so BEFORE accepting me - way to contradict yourself.

SURE!

Resdyn NO! WRONG! Your post was #1446; his post was BEFORE yours.

Asbena NO! BAD! You're constant shouting is bad; cut it out right NOW!

Sel Appa probably didn't see it. He didn't see yours till Naktan pointed it out.

Kyanges *neko cry* Whaaaaaaa! *nyo :o*

Sel Appa probably didn't see it. He didn't see yours till Naktan pointed it out.

Kyanges *neko cry* Whaaaaaaa! *nyo :o*

Now what did we say about the Anime? Thank you.

Come to think of it, we should really RP the civilian side of our nations more. A lot of the cool stuff happens there.

I'll check with Sel first anyway. Better safe then sorry - or worse, banned.

YES!!!

Sel Appa probably didn't see it. He didn't see yours till Naktan pointed it out.

Kyanges *neko cry* Whaaaaaaa! *nyo :o*

Actually, I sent him a telegram - he responded with permission for me to play - there goes your argument - again.


Naktan - Yes what?

OOC: >.> THAT'S IT NO SHUFFLE! FOR YOU! No Loveless! No Slayers! No Kenshin! No Love Hina! No Abenobashi! No DearS! No NARUTOOOOOOOOO!
*pauses briefly to listen to Asbena's amusing tirade, then goes back to watching Bleach, which was conveniently left unmentioned* ;)


Seriously, let's cut this out for now. Sel can make the decision soon enough. Besides, if you get someone else to play them instead of yourself, it usually gets more interesting. I actually prefer what's going on thanks to Singapore and Malaysia getting taken over my own initial intentions. Taiwan scared me for a bit though :p

If someone can (and will) take Columbia, thats great. If someone cant, I'll use it as an NPC until someone else actually wants it.

*pauses briefly to listen to Asbena's amusing tirade, then goes back to watching Bleach, which was conveniently left unmentioned* ;)


Seriously, let's cut this out for now. Sel can make the decision soon enough. Besides, if you get someone else to play them instead of yourself, it usually gets more interesting. I actually prefer what's going on thanks to Singapore and Malaysia getting taken over my own initial intentions. Taiwan scared me for a bit though :p

Darn you CSJ...Darn you...

On another note, I was certain I asked you about the SCO, and how that factored into your plans. If at all. Though I believe you may have missed that post.

On a somewhat lighter note, the final drawing i did of the Saudi Carrier under construction:

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/917/carrierfinal0af.png

Resdyn, I smell BS.

CSJ....I have bleach to. Though Kyanges wouldn't want it.

A sloped deck? CSJ or some others might be able to give better critique, but that's about all I can ask.

EDIT: Asbena...yes...yes I would. Make sure its name brand stuff too.

Ask first, kill later :)

@Willink:

...I just have to say...the planes...they're too cute for words...

*shudder.* Can't believe I just said that...

On a somewhat lighter note, the final drawing i did of the Saudi Carrier under construction:

[IMG|/IMG]

wow...would you mind doing something like for France in about 8 weeks? I'm constructing a new nuclear carrier, seeing as France hass failed to acquire a second carrier from Britain...and chances are, we won't finish until something like 2030 at the latest...[I'm flipping coins and I already lost 2020...]

...[I'm flipping coins and I already lost 2020...]

LOL.

wow...would you mind doing something like for France in about 8 weeks? I'm constructing a new nuclear carrier, seeing as France hass failed to acquire a second carrier from Britain...and chances are, we won't finish until something like 2030 at the latest...[I'm flipping coins and I already lost 2020...]

lol, yeah sure.

Resdyn, I smell BS.

CSJ....I have bleach to. Though Kyanges wouldn't want it.

What's that supposed to mean?
NOTE: Updated the Peru thread.

A sloped deck? CSJ or some others might be able to give better critique, but that's about all I can ask.

EDIT: Asbena...yes...yes I would. Make sure its name brand stuff too.
It's called a ski jump, and is a feature on the majority of non-US carriers, whose builders either can't afford or don't want catapults. Though not quite as effective, it does give a boost and allow for shorter takeoff roles. You'll see that primarily in units intended for CTOL and STOVL aircraft, such as the UK's CVF. It's a perfectly appropriate design feature for a carrier.

My main concern is that I'm not sure who would build it for them. The Saudi shipbuilding industry most certainly cannot construct a carrier. In fact, the current Saudi navy does not have a single domestically built ship. Every ship was actually constructed in the US, the UK, France, or Denmark. No Saudi design. Not even a little missile boat or a frigate. With no prior history, it would be a major undertaking even to design and build a frigate. To jump up and say "carrier" is completely absurd.
On a similar note, the Saudi Navy probably can't even afford a carrier and its associated battle group. We're talking around $1 billion per year just to operate that, plus the basic acquisition cost which probably runs upwards of $10 billion, with billions more in initial training (need to train over 20,000 personnel in operating and maintaining the stuff). With a current annual military budget of well under $20 billion, that's a huge sum being invested.



Beyond that, I really do have to say it: those fishies, er, fighters, really are just to cute for words :p

XD

Though that is true....is it really better then the catapults?

A catapult is better for getting an aircraft to takeoff velocities with minimum runway space. However, catapults are large, complex, and expensive. The UK made their version of the CVF a VSTOL carrier with a ski jump specifically because they didn't feel catapults were worth it, even though their planes will suffer a bit in range and payload due to the ommission.

A ski jump is essentially the cheap way out, but for most nations, which have a much more limited budget than the US, cost is often the most important thing. Reliability is another one.

EDIT FINAL: Oh, just forget the thing.

I would argue why Saudi Arabia needs a carrier, seeing as it is a very expensive investment...

of course, they might have a reason, but it'd be nice to know why...

Agreed...

Interesting fact...

the G8 convenes in France in 2011, and then the United States in 2012...

maybe we should have the G8 as well :)

Kyanges - check your thread

Interesting fact...

the G8 convenes in France in 2011, and then the United States in 2012...

maybe we should have the G8 as well :)

Only if it has the same kind of influence that it does in Real Life.

For one, I don't know what to do about the ALN in the first place...

Oooh, pick me, pick me, I want to build the Saudi Arabian carrier *grin*

I am not 100% sure we have the capability, but it wouldn't surprise me. I know Denmark doesn't have any carriers and have probably never built one before, but hey, we love our naval engineering *grin* incl. bridges and the like of course. We should build a bridge somewhere. It only takes between 5-10 years.

Only four nations have the capability of building a large carrier at this juncture. These nations would be:
The United States (duh)
The Ukraine (they have the shipyards where all Soviet carriers were constructed)
France (solid history with Clemenseau, Foch, and Charles de Gualle)
UK (CVF program would be building them now)

Japan, Italy, and Spain can all build light carriers, and Japan, possibly Italy as well, could have the capability to build larger ones within several years (I'm hoping to start mine in 2017).
Incidentally, the US, UK, France, Russia/Ukraine, along with Germany, are the primary designers and builders of warships in the world. With the exception of a few navies like the Japanese, Italian, Chinese, and Spanish ones, their ships, or at least license-built versions of them, form the main power of most major navies. Even the four noted exceptions all include designs and equipment from the big 5.

India and China also have potential capability to build large carriers, but that's probably a few years further out, as neither is that hot with designing their own ships (both are new and relatively inexperienced with major combatants). Designs for both nations have been claimed for years, but I'm rather skeptical because those claims have been out for so long with no sign of them being constructed. Plus, both nations also sorely lack in effective escorts, and neither could be expected to even provide adequate air defense for a carrier prior to at least 2020.
Russia also has somewhat distant potential, but with the Nikolayev shipyards in Ukranian hands, they'd need all new facilities, and would probably just have them built in the Ukraine anyway. It's a lot cheaper.

so... what happened overnight (the last 11 or so hours) can anyone fill me in? and can Sel put up my argentinan page on the front forum? its right here http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472776

Oh dear...


I dont think its necessary and we've already started. It'll be hard to move also.

(A comment: I belive jolt offers alot of features, and should stay.)

The Vatican isn't a country...it's a part of Rome. Personally, I'm pissed that people recognize the Vatican, but won't recognize Israel's rightful claims. (RL) TO answer you...no

Ok, seeing that quite a few people have complained, I'm purging out a few people. I'm sorry I have to do this.
THESUPREMERULERMATTHEW-Taiwan is no longer in the RP...who let him in in the first place? I would never have done that. Also, you're name shows your immaturity...all caps.

Warnings to:
Poland-Space Program is unrealistic
Italy-I'm not sure what you're doing, but please don't do it again.
Austrailia-Don't pull off a Somalia thing again or claim to have technology you can't have. As others said, money only speeds things up a tiny bit. "A billion dollars don't make a cow moo."

If anyone else deserves a warning or purge, please tell me.

I'm going to try to update the front stuff as best as I can now.


Why'd u kick me, cause of the name or the country? or both.
Seeing as you said you never would have let me in... why didn't you make me change nations when you first saw me? And why did you add my name to your first post as a country too? If its becase of the name, that was suggested to me by a friend when I started playing NS, and the country was going to be opressed by "the supreme ruler matthew".

If it was the issue of Taiwan not being a real country, I have two things to say.
1. It has a government, but China claims it as theirs, and it claims China as theirs.
2. Sence you wouldn't of let me in because of that, can I have Chile instead? As the person hasn't been active.

So what i'm saying is: If it's about the country, you should have let me change it, if it's about the name, then thats just immature of you.

this has absolutely nothing to do with 21c, and since this is a difficult rp already you may not want to to it, but would anyone like to make a futuristic Earth or a Star Trek rp?

we could set it up like this, but we would have to think about how we would do it? is anyone interested enough in making a forum to discuss it?

(A comment: Willik is just trying to earn moderator power...)


1. You spelled my name wrong.

2. Hardly, i just wish to have a easier and more organized place to do the Rp, and with more features than jolt currently has, if anyone should become a mod, it's the Macabees. Why you go after me is beyond myself.

As i will reinstate, it is a light carrier, 20,000 tons, and is being contracted to be built at a foreign shipyard, as for the need and financing,

To jump up and say "carrier" is completely absurd.

If you have noticed, i have never said it is completed, is wish to correct myself, the company is still looking for a builder. (I just forgot about that when i posted the picture.)As for the price concerns, the burgoning saudi economy has been do to:
1. In 2005 35% of the population were teenagers, at the current date they will be in their early twenties, adding some 8 million to my current work force, doubleing the force itself, along with a surging private sector, and with major oil deals with several nations, Saudi Arabia is riding on a high it has never experienced before. Included with this is increased spending in all areas, including military spending, which has risen to new highs, along with an increase in percentage of spending from 2005, from 2% of the total GDP to nearly 6%, equaling the percentage spending of Russia and China(The US spends some 43% of its budget on the military, far suceeding everyone.),also surpassing the spendings of India and Germany. A major problem in the early 2000's was the ever-enlargeing unemployement, which has been delt with by major military campaigns to bring new recruits, which includes naval personel. The Saudi Navy is not 4 fishing boats. It currently operates several frigates, patrol ships, and minesweepers. Along with its soon to be recomissioned Kidd class ships(Bought for a measly 100 million all together), the navy is by far the strongest in the middle east. The need for the carrier, is apparent to me, as it would allow them the ability for increased air capabilites in the Persian gulf and would help support the Green Water fleet being built, as it can also operate with Anti-Ship and Anti-Air missions, such as the Giuseppe Garibaldi (Which is one of the worlds smallest carriers.). Yes, it will be expensive, but impossible, no.

1. You spelled my name wrong.

2. Hardly, i just wish to have a easier and more organized place to do the Rp, and with more features than jolt currently has, if anyone should become a mod, it's the Macabees. Why you go after me is beyond myself.



Comment deleted

True, this is kind of crowded, but it would be hard to move.

Where is the server for that forum hosted anyway?

Does "no new nations" mean that no more players are allowed or does it mean that no newbs are allowed?

On the offchance, could I play Egypt?

Comment deleted

True, this is kind of crowded, but it would be hard to move.

Where is the server for that forum hosted anyway?

It is a high-bandwith PHPBB forum, with extra features.(A built in chat option, an Arcade, and several other features)

1. You spelled my name wrong.

2. Hardly, i just wish to have a easier and more organized place to do the Rp, and with more features than jolt currently has, if anyone should become a mod, it's the Macabees. Why you go after me is beyond myself.

As i will reinstate, it is a light carrier, 20,000 tons, and is being contracted to be built at a foreign shipyard, as for the need and financing,



If you have noticed, i have never said it is completed, is wish to correct myself, the company is still looking for a builder. (I just forgot about that when i posted the picture.)As for the price concerns, the burgoning saudi economy has been do to:
1. In 2005 35% of the population were teenagers, at the current date they will be in their early twenties, adding some 8 million to my current work force, doubleing the force itself, along with a surging private sector, and with major oil deals with several nations, Saudi Arabia is riding on a high it has never experienced before. Included with this is increased spending in all areas, including military spending, which has risen to new highs, along with an increase in percentage of spending from 2005, from 2% of the total GDP to nearly 6%, equaling the percentage spending of Russia and China(The US spends some 43% of its budget on the military, far suceeding everyone.),also surpassing the spendings of India and Germany. A major problem in the early 2000's was the ever-enlargeing unemployement, which has been delt with by major military campaigns to bring new recruits, which includes naval personel. The Saudi Navy is not 4 fishing boats. It currently operates several frigates, patrol ships, and minesweepers. Along with its soon to be recomissioned Kidd class ships(Bought for a measly 100 million all together), the navy is by far the strongest in the middle east. The need for the carrier, is apparent to me, as it would allow them the ability for increased air capabilites in the Persian gulf and would help support the Green Water fleet being built, as it can also operate with Anti-Ship and Anti-Air missions, such as the Giuseppe Garibaldi (Which is one of the worlds smallest carriers.). Yes, it will be expensive, but impossible, no.
Okay, if you're looking for someone to build a light carrier, that's somewhat acceptable, but unless you're getting an existing design, is still going to be very time consuming. If you get an existing design, you should be able to get one up and running within 5 or 6 years. Otherwise, probably not before 2020.

The problem was that the picture confused me because it clearly depicts what would be a large fleet carrier. Both the ship design (angled flight deck specifically) and the scale of the aircraft suggested something much larger than 20,000 tons. In fact, that looks like it's at least a good 70,000 tons worth of carrier. For a light carrier, you won't have an angled flight deck (not really worth it for a small VSTOL ship). If you want JSFs, I'd probably try and grab an Italian Cavour. That's really the only light carrier that could operate them effectively right now. If you can accept Harriers and helicopters, you could go with the Principe de Austrias (or modified version) or the cast off Italian Garibaldi. The UK has noted he's not getting rid of the Invincibles, so those two nations are your only real choices for something that could have actual construction started now (I could build one for you too, but that's not likely). Otherwise, a few years of design studies are needed.

I do see the value of the carrier. It allows you to get airpower coverage over the Arabian Sea without overflying another nation or using up a lot of tanker support. However, I should point out that the main areas that Saudi Arabia is worried about are actually within range of effective land-based air cover. There's no point in having a carrier in either the Red Sea or the Persian Gulf, and only modest incentive (at best) for sticking it in the Ariabian sea. And, even at a light carrier, the whole project for the carrier, its escorts, aircraft, and associated crews (and a suitable drydock of course) could easily cost you over $5 billion

Im not selling the Garibaldi or the Cavour, and i dont think Spain is selling any of his

I would like to point out that OOCs have begun to go overboard.

If I see another OOC that could easily have been an IC, my head will explode.

Please, everyone, try to think of IC ways to deal with something before going OOC. I know OOC can be relevant, but it's seriously being overused.

Recent Examples: (I am Not picking on you guys in particular, a lot have been doing it, me too, I am going to refrain from now on)
OOC: Well it seems i need US permission for the Solar Tower stuff, so can i have it please?
Can't you do that ICly?
(OOC: Ok, no order.)
Up until that point, OOCs had been relevant. An IC response saying "Australia has been refused their order as their businesses are still in Somalia" would have avoided further OOCs.
[ooc: plan? we have a perfectly good plan...diplomatic sanctions on Italy by removing them from the major organizations from which they get support...isolate them from the world to make them realize that their actions are not welcome...if they ignore diplomatic sanctions, we'll take it up a notch...]
I know you didn't want to inform Poland of your plans, maybe, but Poland was being IC, so why the OOC response?

and then my first OOC in the Polish Space Program could have been done ICly with much more effect.

So people, refrain from OOC. Use IC whenever possible.

Ya...cause if Italy asked ICly....the answer would be no. That's the end of that.

It is a high-bandwith PHPBB forum, with extra features.(A built in chat option, an Arcade, and several other features) can you telegram me the link?

Asbena: Maikeria wants you to view your forum cause he posted something.
LOL I beat you by a second :cool: :) :p :D ;)

Asbena check the Australian thread (or Peru or Argentina)

Asbena check the Australian thread (or Peru or Argentina)

You're pathetic. Who told you about this?

I know you didn't want to inform Poland of your plans, maybe, but Poland was being IC, so why the OOC response?

and then my first OOC in the Polish Space Program could have been done ICly with much more effect.

So people, refrain from OOC. Use IC whenever possible.

I used ooc because I don't want it coming out as an IC...Poland claimed that France had no plans...I used an ooc to say that I did have a plan...and furthermore, I could have sworn that Poland also used ooc...

I would like to point out that OOCs have begun to go overboard.

If I see another OOC that could easily have been an IC, my head will explode.

Please, everyone, try to think of IC ways to deal with something before going OOC. I know OOC can be relevant, but it's seriously being overused.

Recent Examples: (I am Not picking on you guys in particular, a lot have been doing it, me too, I am going to refrain from now on)

Can't you do that ICly?

Up until that point, OOCs had been relevant. An IC response saying "Australia has been refused their order as their businesses are still in Somalia" would have avoided further OOCs.

I know you didn't want to inform Poland of your plans, maybe, but Poland was being IC, so why the OOC response?

and then my first OOC in the Polish Space Program could have been done ICly with much more effect.

So people, refrain from OOC. Use IC whenever possible.

(OOC: Well, ok. I know you're not picking on me, but I see this as a personal failure. I'll get an IC reply to him.)

You're pathetic. Who told you about this?

May I ask what "this" is?

Does "no new nations" mean that no more players are allowed or does it mean that no newbs are allowed?

On the offchance, could I play Egypt?

If he's around, ask Sel...TG him

To Maikeria about:

To: Prime Minister of Australia
From: Nilda Garre, President of Argentina
--------------
Australia is not to set foot on South American soil. Any invasion or "peaceful mission" to any South American country will be seen as a declaration of war on Argentina, and troops will be sent to fight against Australia. Also, if you sent troops to any other nations while still in your little African conquest there would not be enough troops/support in the homefront, Australia, and it would be likely there would be attacks there. Do not underestimate our military, ever.

TSRM... ur not part of this forum anymore, wait to be accepted or scram

I thought Peru sent you this message...

what do you mean who told me about it?

what do you mean who told me about it?
Naktan, Peru sent it!? Maikeria did you get this crap from Peru?

No... I posted that due to some of the actions in the Peru thread, thats all

Peru is a noob and you have your info ALL wrong.

ok, sorry then... my mistake if i have all my info wrong :headbang:

Peru is a noob and you have your info ALL wrong.

actually the real story is somethting more on the lines that Peru and Australia have been having flaming debates about Colombia and whether Australia can aid Peru in combatting terrorists in their country and the whatnot...

it's one relationship that you don't want to get mixed in anyway...

Peru is a noob and you have your info ALL wrong.

One should not cast stones when one lives in a glass house.

One should not cast stones when one lives in a glass house.

the true thing to say:

one should not cast stones when there are no stones to cast...

Peru is a major importer of Australian goods and has been that way for a long time. They'd accept the help, because Australia values them and the government. Resdyn is putting OOC crap with IC crap. Yet again! We never took African land. We aided them. Though since no one wants to RP as Somalia....that's questionable I guess.

heres why resdyns being like that:
OOC: Hmm...I'll invade you, take control of your nation, kill the terrorists...and make you another slave.... - Asbena
which i believe was a joke

You can't use OOC for IC....Its in the rules.

Well...on a rare IC note for here, Australia has begun the process to declare war on Italy for its actions in Tunisia. Its expected to pass in 1 week NS time.

mabye i could rp somalia?

I hate to say this, but this utter blatant godmod...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10601003

and if no one agrees with me, I'll have to form extremely drastic measures, bordering on insanity...

Agreed....that's why we are going to war, its an IC post....so you can say that the Italian government is having a media freeze on it to. I had bureaucracies cause they are slow, but we will declare war on him for it.

I hate to say this, but this utter blatant godmod...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10601003

and if no one agrees with me, I'll have to form extremely drastic measures, bordering on insanity...
I removed the bit that you are complaining about, so please get on with an IC response

mabye i could rp somalia?

I've been trying to get a decent RPer for it for over two weeks. I want someone to do that, just to shut Kyanges up ICly cause he wants me to starve Somalia by basically embargoing it. (No import/export or ANY business when we are clearly a powerful presence for importing of wireless products, we pay them!)

heres why resdyns being like that:
OOC: Hmm...I'll invade you, take control of your nation, kill the terrorists...and make you another slave.... - Asbena
which i believe was a joke

Perfect example why the OOCs are getting out of hand :D

mabye i could rp somalia?

probably best idea I've heard in a long time, as long as it stays clean...

so I can or must Sel Appa approve it as one of my NPC nations?

I've been trying to get a decent RPer for it for over two weeks. I want someone to do that, just to shut Kyanges up ICly cause he wants me to starve Somalia by basically embargoing it. (No import/export or ANY business when we are clearly a powerful presence for importing of wireless products, we pay them!)

Wow, you're just... Wow, not even going to go there.

I've said it once, and I can say it as many times as you need it Asbena.

The problem:
-Somalia is so reliant on Australian business. This is bad.

The solution:
-Australian business is slowly supplanted by other businesses around the world.


Now tell me where in this picture Somalia is "starved".

Wow, you're just... Wow, not even going to go there.

I've said it once, and I can say it as many times as you need it Asbena.

The problem:
-Somalia is so reliant on Australian business. This is bad.

The solution:
-Australian business is slowly supplanted by other businesses around the world.


Now tell me where in this picture Somalia is "starved".

They are not reliant on AUSTRALIAN business. It's Somalian business that exports to Australia. Our business and control of Somalia (and all its influence) was removed when we pulled out.

Wow, you're just... Wow, not even going to go there.

I've said it once, and I can say it as many times as you need it Asbena.

The problem:
-Somalia is so reliant on Australian business. This is bad.

The solution:
-Australian business is slowly supplanted by other businesses around the world.


Now tell me where in this picture Somalia is "starved".

personally, I dont' agree with Australia's pan, but the solution is not to "starve" the market from Australia... if we're going by the western standard, it's a free-market economy, meaning that Somali businesses have a choice to make between AUstralian goods or American goods [or French goods :p]. Rather than force the market from Australia, buy the market...make your products more appealling and more affordable than Australian products [and vice versa]...
Australia monopoly = not good
forced removal of Australian monopoly to be supplanted by another monopoly = equally not good...

They are not reliant on AUSTRALIAN business. It's Somalian business that exports to Australia. Our business and control of Somalia (and all its influence) was removed when we pulled out.

Economic reliance cannot be fixed simply by 'pulling out'. If your bussiness suddently pulled out, you probably just screwed their economy after setting them up to be reliant on you.

extactly right Resdyn

personally, I dont' agree with Australia's pan, but the solution is not to "starve" the market from Australia... if we're going by the western standard, it's a free-market economy, meaning that Somali businesses have a choice to make between AUstralian goods or American goods [or French goods :p]. Rather than force the market from Australia, buy the market...make your products more appealling and more affordable than Australian products [and vice versa]...
Australia monopoly = not good
forced removal of Australian monopoly to be supplanted by another monopoly = equally not good...


There will be no monopoly. Neither is America going to be the "savior" here.
Other businesses will come in. Supposedly, Somalia is stable after Australia...so this shouldn't be a problem.

-I hope...

LISTEN DAMMIT! EVERYONE! RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW!

Australian business (military) is gone. Our business with Australia is DONE.
Australian business (economic) was never reliant in Somalia. How can businesses establish a strangle hold on Somalia in just two years?

Australia needs wireless products from Somalia. Somalia has been producing them as exportable goods for over a decade. If anything, we are reliant on them!

The Australian Military took control of all northern operations/business for the short time they were there, fixing it up, but not taking over and staying there. If I say we are importing (not exporting or controlling) Somalian businesses, what's the big fuss about.

its stable because it EXPORTS to Australia. If they EXPORT it aint a monopoly. If it wants to EXPORT anywhere its their choice

I've mentioned it at $300 million per year for the wireless business. We have no plans on cutting our imports, but of course Somalia produces to other nations that want textiles, wireless products and sugar. Its been stable, nothing has changed except the country is unified and that businesses no longer print their own damn money. (WHICH THEY DID)

LISTEN DAMMIT! EVERYONE! RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW!

Australian business (military) is gone. Our business with Australia is DONE.
Australian business (economic) was never reliant in Somalia. How can businesses establish a strangle hold on Somalia in just two years?

Australia needs wireless products from Somalia. Somalia has been producing them as exportable goods for over a decade. If anything, we are reliant on them!

The Australian Military took control of all northern operations/business for the short time they were there, fixing it up, but not taking over and staying there. If I say we are importing (not exporting or controlling) Somalian businesses, what's the big fuss about.


-We know.
-What was that? Something about being a "STAPLE" of someones industry?
-Europe is probably a much better place to look for wireless tech.

-The US has dropped economic sanctions on Australia. Come here for your wireless tech! YEAH!

You can't use OOC for IC....Its in the rules.

Peru is a major importer of Australian goods and has been that way for a long time. They'd accept the help, because Australia values them and the government. Resdyn is putting OOC crap with IC crap. Yet again! We never took African land. We aided them. Though since no one wants to RP as Somalia....that's questionable I guess.

You um kind of invaed them. That is one hell of an aid program....

You can't use OOC for IC....Its in the rules.

Well...on a rare IC note for here, Australia has begun the process to declare war on Italy for its actions in Tunisia. Its expected to pass in 1 week NS time.

You make me laugh once again. Despite the fact that your in so much debt right now, how do you expect to fund, let alone win a war with Italy?

LISTEN DAMMIT! EVERYONE! RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW!

Australian business (military) is gone. Our business with Australia is DONE.
Australian business (economic) was never reliant in Somalia. How can businesses establish a strangle hold on Somalia in just two years?

Australia needs wireless products from Somalia. Somalia has been producing them as exportable goods for over a decade. If anything, we are reliant on them!

The Australian Military took control of all northern operations/business for the short time they were there, fixing it up, but not taking over and staying there. If I say we are importing (not exporting or controlling) Somalian businesses, what's the big fuss about.

How do you expect you businesses to operate without getting blown-up if you military has nothing to do with somalia anymore. Given that the occupation was maybe a year at max, the country would simple revert back to its old self, unless occupational forces were stationed, and that is costly.

IC:
Due to your invasion of Somalia, the government of Peru has lost any trust it once had in Australia. Therefore, we cannot, in good conscience, allow any Australian forces within our borders. Any attempt to force the issue shall be treated as a declaration of war.

OOC: There. Nice, IC reasoning.

Asbena, you need to cool down, go take a breather man.

Asbena, you need to cool down, go take a breather man.

...

How do you expect you businesses to operate without getting blown-up if you military has nothing to do with somalia anymore. Given that the occupation was maybe a year at max, the country would simple revert back to its old self, unless occupational forces were stationed, and that is costly.

Its been two years, and UN forces (more then Australia's, better equiped and experienced) are helping Somalia rebuild its shattered state.

Resdyn: We didn't take land so its not imperialist or anything. It was allowed by the Somalia government. Besides....wrong thread for IC.

USSNA: We can handle ourselves. We didn't take Somalia over. Somalia did not become Australia. About Italy....you'll see. :P

I see some Aussie ships are in Peruvian waters... like we said, Declaration of War on Argentina

This is OOC thread. How can you declare war on yourself?

-_- uggh typossssssssssssssss lol

seeing continued refusal to refrain from pure OOC posts, I have decided that I may very well ignore OOC posts in the future, unless I choose not to.

The only ooc posts I will not ignore are those in this thread.

Any ic post in this thread, I will not ignore.

I am sure that Sel will agree that I am being perfectly reasonable in doing this.

Australian ships have left Peru's waters and are returning to Australia.

Mind you this is OOC still...just referencing.

Forget this guys. This whole 21-C thing is just ridiculous.

I intend to leave this insanity and return to the (surprisingly) somewhat more stable world of FT sometime in the future. Too many people trying too many things, too many people wanting to do things their nation can't do, too much OOC crap, too much...

...stuff.

And not enough good'ole RPing.

I'll probably just take a break to get back into the swing of things.

Its been two years, and UN forces (more then Australia's, better equiped and experienced) are helping Somalia rebuild its shattered state.

Resdyn: We didn't take land so its not imperialist or anything. It was allowed by the Somalia government. Besides....wrong thread for IC.

USSNA: We can handle ourselves. We didn't take Somalia over. Somalia did not become Australia. About Italy....you'll see. :P

You still dont account for the massive debt your accumulating. And the fact that any business that trys to set itself up in Somalia, will just get attacked by rebels. Its not exactly hard to find an AK-47 over there.

Forget this guys. This whole 21-C thing is just ridiculous.

I intend to leave this insanity and return to the (surprisingly) somewhat more stable world of FT sometime in the future. Too many people trying too many things, too many people wanting to do things their nation can't do, too much OOC crap, too much...

...stuff.

And not enough good'ole RPing.

I'll probably just take a break to get back into the swing of things.

I know what you mean - I intended to have the Shining Path kidnap the President of Peu, but I can't due to Australia's crap.

chaos in ruin...

I know what you mean - I intended to have the Shining Path kidnap the President of Peu, but I can't due to Australia's crap.

I left. Do it Resdyn.

Still need New Dornalia to show...

Still need New Dornalia to show...

What would Singapore have to do with this?

Some of his security forces are in Peru - they'll be present during the kidnapping.

i sometimes feel like leaving this thread, but you know, if I leave, undoubtedly I'd personally screw a bunch of other people and let all of the people who godmod stuff to continue it, especially since Sel is not around that much nowadays...

but it's because of some of the rational people here that I stay, not because of all of this BS that I can't stand to deal with another 5 minutes...

Signing up now as Eygpt, because I can :p

Signing up now as Eygpt, because I can :p

who says?

who says?

Says me? the " :p " usually means I'm playing around.

who says?

I said he could sign up :)

did Sel say it was okay?

Jeeze I know what you mean Naktan. X-x

Guys, I think I have the support from most of you here. But I vote that we kick Asbena out of 21C. He has been responsible for 70% of the trouble. I feel that this RP would be much better off without him.

Sry Asbena.

Jeeze I know what you mean Naktan. X-x
*laughs*

did Sel say it was okay?

I was referring to telling him to sign up, not saying he was approved..

Guys, I think I have the support from most of you here. But I vote that we kick Asbena out of 21C. He has been responsible for 70% of the trouble. I feel that this RP would be much better off without him.

Sry Asbena.

What are you insinuating!? I RP pretty fairly, its all this godmod of crap which is ruining the RP. No one gets ANYTHING, cause they don't read my posts.

What are you insinuating!? I RP pretty fairly, its all this godmod of crap which is ruining the RP. No one gets ANYTHING, cause they don't read my posts.


I am insinuating that you are at the bottom of 70% of all the problems this RP has had. And reguardless of how fair you RP, you still cause more trouble than good.

I am insinuating that you are at the bottom of 70% of all the problems this RP has had. And reguardless of how fair you RP, you still cause more trouble than good.

I think its cause people interpret stuff wrong. People using too much OOC stuff ICly is 90% of it. Kyanges...dispite telling him over 20 about Somalia, he still doesn't listen or understand. Resdyn, being a little bitch and not being realistic about Peru which is a CLOSE ally and trade partner.

Peru would ACCEPT Australia's help, but Resdyn doesn't! This is not realistic in the least. Then Argentina godmods his way into declaring war on me! Then godmods my diplomacy. Then godmods my actions! Oh ya...I am ignoring that stupid 'I declares wars on youse." of Argentina.

I was referring to telling him to sign up, not saying he was approved..

ok...

What are you insinuating!? I RP pretty fairly, its all this godmod of crap which is ruining the RP. No one gets ANYTHING, cause they don't read my posts.

While I don't wish to vote off players [that I leave to God], your constant yelling and ploys of tantrums don't really help you. I personally don't think that you RP very well, particularly since you just RPed an invasion of Somalia; RPed their total withdrawal, leaving behind the better part of your armored corps; RPed too much research for too little; and RPed huge obnoxious rants to almost everything that you're opposed [some of them in truth, while others in ignorance]. Your character is not the best example to others and probably is what encouraged Italy to invade TUnisia in the first place [although I think that he's been planning that for a long while...].

In truth, no one is playing the RP well. France is not all this interventionist in the world, but lacking any firm support from the USA, Russia, and China, I've have to deal with a lot of unreal stuff from the start as France. People RP tech trades like they're commodities off the street. If anything, the only thing that people RP well is the blatant disregard for the UN authority [and even that might go into excess here].

I don't agree with the voting off of Australia, even if it would make our experiences a lot better. If Sel says to ban him, then I'll agree with that, but not anything else.

I think its cause people interpret stuff wrong. People using too much OOC stuff ICly is 90% of it. Kyanges...dispite telling him over 20 about Somalia, he still doesn't listen or understand. Resdyn, being a little bitch and not being realistic about Peru which is a CLOSE ally and trade partner.

Peru would ACCEPT Australia's help, but Resdyn doesn't! This is not realistic in the least. Then Argentina godmods his way into declaring war on me! Then godmods my diplomacy. Then godmods my actions! Oh ya...I am ignoring that stupid 'I declares wars on youse." of Argentina.

Australia would not send troops for aid after an invasion of another country, especially $2tril in debt...

I don't think it's more than 50% actually


Personnally, with the fact that severral others have done things even without Asbena (Polish space program, Italian and Spanish forays into Africa, South Africa's massive instant-alliance), I'd say that kicking him won't really solve much. What would help would be to get clear rules on what can be done, and allow the moderators to enforce them and make official rulings. I'm considering trying to get down with Sel to work that out. Main issue being getting Sel.

Peru would not accept Australia's help after they had already invaded Somalia! By invading Somalia, the Australians proved (to Peru) their imperialist ambitions. No government in its right mind lets the troops of a proven expansionist power 'help'

And Australia remains unrealistic in their invasion of Somalia, whether in good intentions or not...

I think its cause people interpret stuff wrong. People using too much OOC stuff ICly is 90% of it. Kyanges...dispite telling him over 20 about Somalia, he still doesn't listen or understand. Resdyn, being a little bitch and not being realistic about Peru which is a CLOSE ally and trade partner.

Peru would ACCEPT Australia's help, but Resdyn doesn't! This is not realistic in the least. Then Argentina godmods his way into declaring war on me! Then godmods my diplomacy. Then godmods my actions! Oh ya...I am ignoring that stupid 'I declares wars on youse." of Argentina.
It could just be people ya know, disagreeing with your interpretation of events? ICly you've invaded Somolia, are currently trying to start shit with Ital, almost got your ass handled to you by the Spanish navy over the suez thing, and at one point claimed to have 10 battleships. This was all IC, so it is no wonder the international community as a whole would want to distance themselves from you.

I don't think it's more than 50% actually


Personnally, with the fact that severral others have done things even without Asbena (Polish space program, Italian and Spanish forays into Africa, South Africa's massive instant-alliance), I'd say that kicking him won't really solve much. What would help would be to get clear rules on what can be done, and allow the moderators to enforce them and make official rulings. I'm considering trying to get down with Sel to work that out. Main issue being getting Sel.

I'd agree

Australia would not send troops for aid after an invasion of another country, especially $2tril in debt...

Naktan...you're guilty of it again. OOCly I joked about invading him cause Resdyn (RL) was going to do that to Asbena. I sent THREE missile frigates for him to use to stop the terrorists. This is no different then Argentina sending 500 troops.

YET, Peru avoided a close ally and proceded to basically declare war on me (Argentina DID) and we went there to HELP. This is not realistic.

It could just be people ya know, disagreeing with your interpretation of events? ICly you've invaded Somolia, are currently trying to start shit with Ital, almost got your ass handled to you by the Spanish navy over the suez thing, and at one point claimed to have 10 battleships. This was all IC, so it is no wonder the international community as a whole would want to distance themselves from you.

Read. My ships were mostly civilian. (and Kyanges told me the proper term was battleCRUISER, which I accepted as my bad and my fault) I accepted my own problem, fixed it and worked the RP around so that they no longer existed. (we gave them back to the civilians which we had commendeered them from). Italy has been invaded Tunisia, we have to right to declare war after he has not ceased. This has gone through the UN mind you!

Naktan...you're guilty of it again. OOCly I joked about invading him cause Resdyn (RL) was going to do that to Asbena. I sent THREE missile frigates for him to use to stop the terrorists. This is no different then Argentina sending 500 troops.

YET, Peru avoided a close ally and proceded to basically declare war on me (Argentina DID) and we went there to HELP. This is not realistic.

I know about that...

I'm saying that Australia would not have the resources, after sending 40000 troops across one ocean, after spending so much on research, after getting in the USA and Singapore trade embargos, after all of this junk, they would not have the resources to send even three frigates across another ocean to offer to aid Peru...

And Argentina is the closer ally...and principally because Australia showed the history of aggressiveve interactions with its foreign neighbors, I doubt that Peru would want Australian forces within their territory...

I never declared war on you. Argentinia went way overboard in doing that. Anyway, I (the government of Peru) repeatedly told you (the government of Australia) that we did not require your aid, and yet you insisted on sending it. I mean really, I already have troops from Singapore, Poland, and Argentinia camped out near Lima. I don't need any more support.

I know about that...

I'm saying that Australia would not have the resources, after sending 40000 troops across one ocean, after spending so much on research, after getting in the USA and Singapore trade embargos, after all of this junk, they would not have the resources to send even three frigates across another ocean to offer to aid Peru...

And Argentina is the closer ally...and principally because Australia showed the history of aggressiveve interactions with its foreign neighbors, I doubt that Peru would want Australian forces within their territory...

Exactly

Read. My ships were mostly civilian. (and Kyanges told me the proper term was battleCRUISER, which I accepted as my bad and my fault) I accepted my own problem, fixed it and worked the RP around so that they no longer existed. (we gave them back to the civilians which we had commendeered them from). Italy has been invaded Tunisia, we have to right to declare war after he has not ceased. This has gone through the UN mind you!

The UN resolution on Italy was earlier divided...the first one failed...the second one is still on the floor...

that said, Australia does have the right to declare war on Italy...just don't expect much good to come from this...

OOC: It costs what....$50,000 to fuel 3 ships and send them across the ocean. We weren't going to do much. Resdyn I said you almost did it. You had 6 subs ready to destroy them....hardly peaceful.

The UN resolution on Italy was earlier divided...the first one failed...the second one is still on the floor...

that said, Australia does have the right to declare war on Italy...just don't expect much good to come from this...

O.O What about the second one, didn't it already pass?

Though we can declare war, but not send active troops or anything. That happened alot in World War II.

Yes, except that missiles are extremely expensive - and I was only going to destroy your ships if you proceeded to fire missiles a sovereign Peruvian territory without my explicit permission.

Read. My ships were mostly civilian. (and Kyanges told me the proper term was battleCRUISER, which I accepted as my bad and my fault) I accepted my own problem, fixed it and worked the RP around so that they no longer existed. (we gave them back to the civilians which we had commendeered them from). Italy has been invaded Tunisia, we have to right to declare war after he has not ceased. This has gone through the UN mind you!
There are no battlecruisers left in the world either as far as I know, and even then you can't commission a bunch of civilian ships and turn them into warships in the timeframe you had. Especially given you wouldn't have had the resources to do so.

Also you should have gotten my message in regards to your trying to declare war on Italy.

OOC: It costs what....$50,000 to fuel 3 ships and send them across the ocean. We weren't going to do much. Resdyn I said you almost did it. You had 6 subs ready to destroy them....hardly peaceful.

What about food and combat pay for the troops? What about the costs that will be inflicted if yours ships get damaged? What about ammunition? Basic Upkeep?

Yes, except that missiles are extremely expensive - and I was only going to destroy your ships if you proceeded to fire missiles a sovereign Peruvian territory without my explicit permission.

Lol...We know. Several million...okay. Though its a drop in the bucket compared to our military budget.

ElectronX....just drop it. I'm not in the mood, I made enough concessions back then. Let it go.

What about food and combat pay for the troops? What about the costs that will be inflicted if yours ships get damaged? What about ammunition? Basic Upkeep?

That's all in the upkeep for the ships except the last two. The ships are nearing for decomissioning...damaged so what. Missile launched I said before.

O.O What about the second one, didn't it already pass?

Though we can declare war, but not send active troops or anything. That happened alot in World War II.

the point of the UN is prevent another WW...

ElectronX....just drop it. I'm not in the mood, I made enough concessions back then. Let it go.
I would not define your concessions as enough in the slightest. You cannot RP the generally quiet Australia as some warmongering psychopath and expect people to nod, smile, and accept you.

Granted, people RP the countries they have differently then how they would really act in RL, but I don't think they pull a 180 like you have, except maybe in regards to Italy who is acting a weebit crazy right not, but even so, his behavior is no excuse for yours.

Ok this is over. I'm not respondin to anymore of your crap. This is how things jump from one thing to another. Australia's change is fine, we want more in the world. That's fair enough. France did the same thing, because of nations that were inactive (China, America and now Russia and UK). The KEY players to a stable world are missing. Naturally someone more ambitious and bold will rise to fill the void.

Ok this is over. I'm not respondin to anymore of your crap. This is how things jump from one thing to another. Australia's change is fine, we want more in the world. That's fair enough. France did the same thing, because of nations that were inactive (China, America and now Russia and UK). The KEY players to a stable world are missing. Naturally someone more ambitious and bold will rise to fill the void.

that sounds like an excuse for France to become a superpower...

Ok this is over. I'm not respondin to anymore of your crap. This is how things jump from one thing to another. Australia's change is fine, we want more in the world. That's fair enough. France did the same thing, because of nations that were inactive (China, America and now Russia and UK). The KEY players to a stable world are missing. Naturally someone more ambitious and bold will rise to fill the void.
And that someone would certainly not be Australia. given that they don't have the manpower, the international clout(especially now), and resources to be anything more than they are now. You need to accept that or your time in 21c will not be a pleasant one.

that sounds like an excuse for France to become a superpower...

France may not be strong, but their interests are far-reaching. That's good enough for the time.

ElectronX....you don't know when to quit. Give Australia 70 more years and we'll be a superpower.

ElectronX....you don't know when to quit. Give Australia 70 more years and we'll be a superpower.
Australia a super power in 70 years? Hardly, especially on the course you're currently following. Being a super power means you have money, which you don't, infact your debt is so crippling to your economy I am surprised you don't have people starving in the streets.

You also need resources, and lots of them, so until the primary export of Australia isn't sheep, that won't happen.

You also have these embargoes from the USA and Singapore which are further hurting your economy, and my own embargo, which I doubt hurts Australia that much given they probably don't receive much from us anyway.


As I said before, you're taking Australia down a dark path, one that can only lead to your ruin, if only you would take your head out of the same.