NationStates Jolt Archive

Actually, we're building six. Those are the Karl Marx class. Expect the Union class to be even more monstrous (though we'll probably only build a couple of those).

And hey! I just found the creaky old TB-3. We do have a four-engine heavy bomber (they even carried tanks!). I'm sure they've been replaced by TB-7s now, though, which I've also just found. And I guess even our primitive Bf109s were classed as "escort fighters." So, Jet Engines and Rocketry and Guided Bombs - and if they don't show up till '40, then that gives me six years to spread out thirty-six research points. I'll edit our 1935 budget accordingly.

enough carrier aircraft and even the biggest monster battleship can be sunk ...

Actually your escort fighter is the BF110 (which hasn't been proven or disproven in combat yet).

Burgundy 1935

2 Points on Training Pilots

2 Points on a Fighter Unit

2 Points on Education

enough carrier aircraft and even the biggest monster battleship can be sunk ...

Actually your escort fighter is the BF110 (which hasn't been proven or disproven in combat yet).
So, what I saved on research ought to spent on four-engined bombers, four-engined naval air, and twin-engined fighters. Okay.

Pilots really take a full year to train? Even in wartime?

Oh, and the Pe-8 is the same as the TB-7.

So, what I saved on research ought to spent on four-engined bombers, four-engined naval air, and twin-engined fighters. Okay.

Pilots really take a full year to train? Even in wartime? .

actually yes... tech level 6 aircraft are massively more complex, powerful and dangerous than tech level 5 aircraft. The US and Britain took as long as 2 years at times, even during the height of the war, while the Germans and Japanese were reduced to 4 months (and their pilots died like flies late war).

so 1 year is an average for playability reasons.

Just as a question, later on when worldwide mass transit becomes viable many nations will be visited by these tourists and so a nation that draws in and accomodates large numbers of tourists will have a portion of its economy generated by the accommodation of tourists.
How will you fit this into game terms?

Just as a question, later on when worldwide mass transit becomes viable many nations will be visited by these tourists and so a nation that draws in and accomodates large numbers of tourists will have a portion of its economy generated by the accommodation of tourists.
How will you fit this into game terms?

I have been thinking about it... won't happen until tech level 7 though (when Jet airliners show up)

Ok just so I know your thinking about it, I have a feeling its going to become quite important for Viet Nam

1935

Maintenance:
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
Points spent: 3.50

(NOTE: Spending on the Airforce was cut, 3 pilots and 3 bombers (Martin B10's) no long in service. Also, one Mechanized infantry division (Madras) was disbanded as well.)

Other
13 points spent on education and health

Points spent: 16

Spending the 36 points given to India by the Soviet Union
36 points to education and health (level 1)

Points not spent: 0

1935

Maintenance:
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
Points spent: 3.50

(NOTE: Spending on the Airforce was cut, 3 pilots and 3 bombers (Martin B10's) no long in service. Also, one Mechanized infantry division (Madras) was disbanded as well.)

Other
13 points spent on education and health

Points spent: 16

Points not spent: 0
You seem to have failed to allocate the 36 points you're receiving from the Soviet Union for basic education and healthcare. It's in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10077022&postcount=474). I'll remind you in your diplomatic thread, as well.

You seem to have failed to allocate the 36 points you're receiving from the Soviet Union for basic education and healthcare. It's in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10077022&postcount=474). I'll remind you in your diplomatic thread, as well.

Ooh, didn't see that.

Fixing now.

Cool. Enjoy.

First Vietnamese build of 1935:

9 points ( 1 from industry, 8 foreign aid from Britain)

3x shipping units (500,000 tons) 9 points

1935
Other
13 points spent on education and health

Points spent: 16

Spending the 36 points given to India by the Soviet Union
36 points to education and health (level 1)

Points not spent: 0
The nosy Soviet officials overseeing disbursement of humanitarian aid will recommend to Bose's government that he invest in industrial expansion, rather than further (and unnecessary) social assistance.

[OoC: If I remember correctly, spending 12pts/yr for 6 years should get you 4 more production points.]

The nosy Soviet officials overseeing disbursement of humanitarian aid will recommend to Bose's government that he invest in industrial expansion, rather than further (and unnecessary) social assistance.

[OoC: If I remember correctly, spending 12pts/yr for 6 years should get you 4 more production points.]

Bose's government responds by saying that India is a country of 350 million people, all of whom are in desperate need of an education. Once India has reached a respectable level of welfare (level 2, which will be in about 3 years, if everything goes according to plan), they will then focus on increasing industry.

Question GB, or anyone for that matter. You posted in response to Colombia's build that ground units are automatically upgraded with Maintenence, but the front page says otherwise, which is it? I would rather it be the way you said for Colombia. If this is correct, how long, etc does it take for upgrades?

Oi.

Edited the Budget for the first turn of 1935 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10082461&postcount=503), to reflect changes in research and capacity.

Question GB, or anyone for that matter. You posted in response to Colombia's build that ground units are automatically upgraded with Maintenence, but the front page says otherwise, which is it? I would rather it be the way you said for Colombia. If this is correct, how long, etc does it take for upgrades?
Ground units are automatically upgraded. That's the reason why I insisted on implemented the maintenance costs to begin with.

The front page has a tendency to drift out of date, in this thread and others. We Mods are kept busy oppressing you guys all the time, you know.

Question GB, or anyone for that matter. You posted in response to Colombia's build that ground units are automatically upgraded with Maintenence, but the front page says otherwise, which is it? I would rather it be the way you said for Colombia. If this is correct, how long, etc does it take for upgrades?

yep, your right, I mispoke (was in a hurry this morning)

Yugoslavia
Base Points 23(plus one from growth)
Merchant Marine: 3 points
Foreign Assistance: 12 points
Total Points: 38
Tech level 6

1935
Industrial Builds:
15 points into factory(28 more need past this)

National Maintenence:
6 points for military
10 points for level 4 welfare

National Builds:
2xMerchant Marine 6 points
2xpoint Upgrade 2 mech corps to Armored corps

Points Spent: 38


Redo after i found out you don't have to pay for upgrades as long as you pay maintenence.

Yugoslavia
:
6 points for military(just to maintain sanity i am paying tech 6 levels for all units right now, even tech 5 units)

Redo after i found out you don't have to pay for upgrades as long as you pay maintenence.

Actually in your case, because you have been doing the above all along, and have easy access to tech level 6 equipment, I am going to assume you have already upgraded your forces with Union and Czech assistance.

Italian Military Forces
tech level 6
30 points normal spending, has increased to 33 points by 1935
1 HQ, 1 mechanized corps, 1 alpine corps, 1 field artillery unit, 3 infantry corps, 5 reserve infantry corps, 3 garrison units, 1 3-engined bomber unit (considered twin engine for maintenance purposes), 1 fighter unit, 2 pilots, 2 tech level 6 battleships (Conte Di Cavour, Giulio Caseare, 4/3/5/3), 2 tech level 6 carriers (Italia, Roma, 1/1/5/3), 2 tech level 6 heavy cruisers (Zara, Pola), 7 tech level 7 light cruisers (Basilicata, Campania, Quarto, Nino Bixio, Marsala, Pisa, Arnalfi 1/1/6/3), 30 tech level 6 destroyers (3 light ship units), 30 tech level 6 submarines (3 submarine units), 8 shipping units,

maintenance 15 points
social spending for 40 million at level 2 is 10 points, leaving 8 points available annually as a reserve.

Therefore, instead of the planned Navy, the Italians decide to replace their 2 battleships with Vittorio Veneto class battleships instead, both of which will enter service in 1936. Italy also has a national and international airline.

As Italy is now a NPC country, I am going to assume the Liberals take office and decide to reduce military spending to provide stability in the form of social services.

Hungary’s New Builds for 1935:
Switch to War Footing
8(x3) (Domestic Points) + 1 (Airline) + 12 (Russian Points) = 37 Points

2.75 points for Military up-keep
5 points for domestic services
1.25 for building Egyetem Város (University City) at Keszthely
2 for pilot unit
4 for one air transport (International Airline)
22 points for factory (22/24 done)

So next year I will have 8 Domestic + 2 Airline on regular footing

Updated slightly and adjusted because I had the wrong year.

Argentina Military Forces (includes Zionists)
Tech level 5
10 points normal spending, has increased to 11 points by 1935. National Effort declared for 22 points
1 garrison unit (Madagascar), 1 mechanized corps, 2 reserve infantry corps, 2 tech level 6 Soryu class carriers, 1 carrier fighter, 1 carrier torpedo bomber, 2 carrier pilots, 2 tech level 6 County type light cruisers, 10 tech level 6 destroyers (modernized), 3 pilots, 3 fighter units. Maintenance 7 points. Social services for 10 million at level 1: 1 point, leaving 15 points this year for production. This year the Argies are going to upgrade their air force (buying a 3 point Mosquito bomber and 4 points for 2 A6M fighters, upgrade their army to tech level 6 for 6 points) To buy off the lower classes they are going to double to social service budget to 2 points as well.

As Argentina is an NPC country, it has swung to the Right after the Chinese Civil War began because it scared the upper and middle classes. Argentina is also willing to transfer ownership of their half of Madagascar to Great Britain in exchange for the Falkland Islands.

In addition, Argentina has declared a National Emergency and is considering declaring war on the Union and France to honor its alliance with Japan.

Uruguay military forces
Tech level 4
2 points normal spending.
1 Garrison unit, 1 militia unit (reserve)
Uruguay becomes somewhat socialist, but still remains in Pan America Treaty to ensure protection from their somewhat heavily armed neighbors.

Peru
Tech level 4
2 points normal spending
1 garrison unit, 1 militia unit (reserve),
An NPC country, Peru had swung to the Left and spend 1 point a turn on Social services (level 2) but is about to have a coup (which no one has knowledge of at this point) as the Right would rather have a tax cut.

Paraguay military forces
Tech level 4
2 points normal spending, national effort to 4 points
Paraguay had 1 garrison and 1 militia unit, it spends 2 points to upgrade both to tech level 6 infantry units (buying on the world market) and another 2 points to acquire a theater supply unit.

An NPC country that has suddenly swung far to the Right and is looking with interest as liberating the Native American peoples of Bolivia, Peru and Chile. (Paraguay has the largest proportion of Native Americans in South America). Along the way this would also give Paraguay access to the Pacific and make it a power on the scale of Colombia and Argentina (which is obviously unrealistic). However, Paraguay has oil reserves that have are now producing.

Secret IC:

The Hungarians, always looking to start a fight and a chance to crush right-wing governments, quietly begins to approach various South American governments (except Colombia and Brazil) and begin to offer them weapons and aid (roughly two points available next year) to build up their military. This of course is done through second parties.

Secret IC:

The Hungarians, always looking to start a fight and a chance to crush right-wing governments, quietly begins to approach various South American governments (except Colombia and Brazil) and begin to offer them weapons and aid (roughly two points available next year) to build up their military. This of course is done through second parties.

the FBI, under Hoover, easily discovers this (ooc they have the responsibility for Latin American intelligence gathering at this point in history). But Hoover doesn't take it seriously and fails to act on the information or inform anyone not in the FBI. (ooc, I hate Hoover and will use this chance to get rid of the bastard when the situation blows up).

Canadian military forces
Tech level 6
21 points normal spending, 23 points by 1935
Level 5 social services for 10 million people – 5 points,
Military forces: 2 mechanized infantry corps (reserve), 1 HQ, 1 fighter unit (Hurricane), 1 pilot, 1 tech level 6 light cruiser, 10 tech level 6 destroyers (East Coast), 1 2-engined naval air unit, 1 pilot, military maintenance 11 points. This year Canada orders 1 x 4-engined naval air unit (B24) and starts training a pilot for it.

Dutch Military Forces
Tech level 6
11 points as of 1935
Dutch East Indies
1 battleship Rotterdam (attack 5, defense 5, speed 6, range 2), Light cruisers Sumatra, Java (attack 1, defense 1, speed 7, range 2), 1 tech level 6 light ship unit (10 destroyers), 1 tech level 6 submarine unit, 1 garrison unit (Batavia), 1 fighter unit (Fokker DXVIII), 1 maritime bomber unit (mixed B10/A12/Swordfish), 2 pilots

Home Forces
1 Infantry corps, 1 fighter unit (Fokker DXVIII), 1 pilot, battleship Amsterdam (Rotterdam class), light cruisers De Ruyter, Tromp (attack 1, defense 1, speed 6 , range 6), 1 tech level 6 light ship unit (10 destroyers), 1 tech level 6 submarine unit (10 submarines), plus 3 reserve garrison units, 2 shipping units, 8 points maintenance for military forces, plus 3 points for Social Spending (creates level 3 services)

Algeria tech level 5
1 garrison unit, 1 flak unit, 1 fighter (P26), 1 pilot, plus 2 reserve garrison units, 1 reserve cavalry corps. Essentially 1 point a year for the military, which works as Algeria has 2 points year. Its other point level 1 social services. (as the Player has not acted in some time)

Morocco
1 mountain corps, 1 fighter unit (P26), 1 pilot, plus 2 reserve garrison units, (as above for Algeria)

Norway
1 tech level 5 light ship (10 destroyers), 1 tech level 5 submarine unit (10 submarines), plus 1 reserve garrison unit (Oslo), plus 3 shipping units
Norway is upgrading its military to tech level 6, which it completes this year

Siam
1 reserve garrison unit

Burgundy
3 reserve infantry corps, 1 fortification (Metz), (no information from player, assume Burgundy just modernizes its forces, pays maintenance, and acquires a fighter unit from the Netherlands and trains a pilot between 1933 and 1935)

French Spending, 1935

90 points, minus 20 for Social Services, minus 24 maintence

leaves 46 points. 8 points/turn

January-Feburary

Begin Two Mech Corp (2 point)

Anti-tank unit (2 points)

Pilot (2 points)

Begin Armored Cavalry Unit (2 points)

March-April

Continue Two Mech Corps (2 points)

2 Field Artillery Units (4 points)

Continue Armored Cavalry Unit (2 points)

May-June

Continue Two Mech Corps (2 points)

Pilot (2 points)

Carrier Fighter Unit (2 points)

Contine Armored Cavalry Unit (2 points, completed in July-August)

July-August

Finish Two Mech Corps (2 points)

Continue and Complete Fighter Unit (1 point)

Begin Armored Cavalry Unit (1 point)

1 Pilot (2 points)

1 Carrier Bomber Unit(2 points)

Rest to be decided as year progresses and combat plays out

EDITED

Korean Build-

National Enrichment (AKA National Effort/Five Year) is still on, so Ten points plus 3 extra from Union.

IC:

1935-

devotion of 9 points (3 donated, 6 domestic) to support for basic schools, clinics, high schools, public hospitals, orphans and widows assistance.
2 points to Upgrade to Tech Level 6
Two points to go to Nationalist China as food and ammo aid

Korean Build-

National Enrichment (AKA National Effort/Five Year) is still on, so Ten points plus 3 extra from Union.

IC:

1935-

devotion of 9 points (3 donated, 6 domestic) to support for basic schools, clinics, high schools, public hospitals, orphans and widows assistance.
2 points to Upgrade to Tech Level 6
Two points to go to Nationalist China as food and ammo aid

Does Korea have a military? If so, you need to pay upkeep.

LEVEL 6

The Republic of Gran Colombia (1935)
Population:10.6 million
1935 builds: 24 points base, plus 22 for shipping and airliners + 10 Points from US... NATIONAL EFFORT!!! OMFG NOES! (Only for one year, Promised to citizens.) For a grand total of 80p

Education and Safety net (medical, welfare). - 5 points basic schools, clinics, high schools, public hospitals, orphans and widows assistance, public universities, social security type assistance for the elderly and disabled, unemployment insurance, food assistance (like food stamps), junior colleges, free health insurance, and a basic living allotment to all who aren't working.

National Maintenence:
4 x Garrison = 1p
3 x Alpine Corp = 3p
1 x Mechanized Corp = 1p
1 x HQ Unit = 1p
1 x Motorized Artillery = .5p
1 x Theatre Supply Unit = .5p
8 x Fighters = 8p
2 x Light Ships = 2p
TOTAL: 18p

National Builds: (57p left)
4 x Pilot = 8p
1 x Light Bomber (Single Engine) = 2p
6 x Merchant Marine = 18p
3 x Flak Artillery = 6p
1 x Fleet Carrier = 8p (Vincente Sewell)
1 x Fleet Carrier = 8p (Gabriel García Márquez)
2 x Carrier Fighter Units = 4p
1 x Carrier Bomber Unit = 3p
1 x Cruiser = 2.5p (Manuel Ancizar)
1 x Cruiser = 2.5p (Alberto Lleras Camargo)

Australian Builds for 1935: 21 points to spend

Land Maintenence:
4 garrison units, 3 motorized infantry corps, 1 pilot = 3 points

Sea Maintenence:
2 destroyer units and one sub, 4 light cruisers and 2 heavy cruisers = 3 points

Upgrades:
2 battlecruisers to tech level 6 = 4 points

Builds:
2 shipping units (at 3 points each) for 6 points
1 pilot=2 points

Domestic Spending:
Remaining 3 points (I have a population of 6 million, so I assume this gets me level 3 with a fraction of points lost. If i actually have any left, they are invested in infastructure)

the FBI, under Hoover, easily discovers this (ooc they have the responsibility for Latin American intelligence gathering at this point in history). But Hoover doesn't take it seriously and fails to act on the information or inform anyone not in the FBI. (ooc, I hate Hoover and will use this chance to get rid of the bastard when the situation blows up).
SIC
A Soviet "diplomat" about to depart Washington on rotation will inform the US State Department of the Hungarians' plans, along with the fact that Budapest's scheme was not approved by Warsaw, nor was the latter even consulted. Some vague references to "concerns" about the current Hungarian leadership are dropped.

OoC: I hate Hoover, too - happy to help.

168/turn +5 points reserved from January/February 1935

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
93 points for Extraordinary Expenditures
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
30 points to fully repair all rail-systems in Nationalist China
22 points (fully paid off) for 11 submarines
12 points (fully paid off) for 6 carrier aircraft, 6 pilots
11 points (fully paid off) for 2 Democracy-class fleet carriers, 2 carrier aircraft, 1 pilot (year 1 of 3)
8 points (fully paid up front) for 1 light ship squadron
6 points (fully paid off) for 2 amphibious assault fleets
4 points (fully paid off) for training 4 pilots

I will need to know where these ships are being built (Black Sea, Baltic or Pacific ports)

The two carriers are being built in the Black Sea (one is for our Med Fleet, the other for the MEU). The two assault fleets and the light ships are being built in the Pacific (at Gongjing if Vladivostok is overburdened).

Since submarines can be moved by rail, I don't care where they're built. Probably at Kiel, Gdansk, Helsinki, and Petrograd.

tech level 6 submarines cannot be moved by rail... they are two to three times larger than tech level 5 submarines... My suggestion would be to split them 40/30/30 Baltic, Black and Pacific ports.

tech level 6 submarines cannot be moved by rail... they are two to three times larger than tech level 5 submarines... My suggestion would be to split them 40/30/30 Baltic, Black and Pacific ports.
Lame. Okay, 40/30/30.

I suppose they can at least take the Northern Passage more easily than surface ships, yes?

Argentina is also willing to transfer ownership of their half of Madagascar to Great Britain in exchange for the Falkland Islands.

Whilst Britain is interested in the deal, the British ambassador to Argentina regretfully informs the Argentine government that the British are unwilling to give up the citizenship of the people on the Falklands and that transferring control to the Argentines will likely enrage them. Britain will grant the Argentinians extensive basing rights on the Falklands, Madagascar and many other major ports under British control in return for Southern Madagascar. The deal can even be helped with some foreign aid, if the Argentinians so wish. The British ambassador hopes for continued good will between the Argentinians and British peoples.

OOC: Whilst Britain would welcome Madagascar into the Empire, they will under no circumstances give up the citizens that are currently on the Falklands and that the locals will see transferral to Argentine rule as if the British are abandonign them to a foreign government. The Falklanders are very proud of their British heritage and are unlikely to want to become Argentinian. However Britain will offer Argentina extensive (land, sea and air) basing rights in the Falklands and Madagascar as well as naval moorings in most other British controlled ports.

China will maintain Level I social services for the year of 1935. These social services will be provided for the Chinese that the Union cannot provide social aid for.

Thus, I believe the Union is paying social services for 300 million Chinese, so that leaves me with roughly 100 million Chinese to pay social services for, and Level 1 at that. That means I will spend 10 production points for the whole year of 1935 for the social services. By the way, I can't figure out how many military units I still do have, and how much maintainence for these military units that are still surviving.

So....

China's 1935 build: 48 points for the year (I believe)

10 points for social services.
X points for maintainence (X = unknown at this time)

The leftover points will be allocated towards the military, upgades, or whatever needs to be done aganist the Japanese invasion (should the cease-fire fail).

Whilst Britain is interested in the deal, the British ambassador to Argentina regretfully informs the Argentine government that the British are unwilling to give up the citizenship of the people on the Falklands and that transferring control to the Argentines will likely enrage them. Britain will grant the Argentinians extensive basing rights on the Falklands, Madagascar and many other major ports under British control in return for Southern Madagascar. The deal can even be helped with some foreign aid, if the Argentinians so wish. The British ambassador hopes for continued good will between the Argentinians and British peoples.

OOC: Whilst Britain would welcome Madagascar into the Empire, they will under no circumstances give up the citizens that are currently on the Falklands and that the locals will see transferral to Argentine rule as if the British are abandonign them to a foreign government. The Falklanders are very proud of their British heritage and are unlikely to want to become Argentinian. However Britain will offer Argentina extensive (land, sea and air) basing rights in the Falklands and Madagascar as well as naval moorings in most other British controlled ports.

what is the population of the Falkland Islands in 1935? This is an important question, as if all else fails, perhaps the Argies would buy them out.

what is the population of the Falkland Islands in 1935? This is an important question, as if all else fails, perhaps the Argies would buy them out.

According to the CIA Factbook, the Falkland Islands population is only 2,967 today, which means in 1935 it must be somewhere around 1,000 or less.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/fk.html

The British Ambassador to Argentina has been overuled by the British government in the Falklands transaction. Britain agrees to grant exclusive ownership of the Falklands to Argentina, providing that some terms are met:

-All British Citizens already on the islands maintain British citizenship
-The Islands are to be a special state of the Empire/territories of Argentina and not part of the main country (a matter of pride)
-Britain allowed to maintain a naval refueling station and harbour at Port Stanley
-Britain receives the Southern portion of the Island of Madagascar currently occupied by Argentina.

The British Ambassador to Argentina has been overuled by the British government in the Falklands transaction. Britain agrees to grant exclusive ownership of the Falklands to Argentina, providing that some terms are met:

-All British Citizens already on the islands maintain British citizenship
-The Islands are to be a special state of the Empire/territories of Argentina and not part of the main country (a matter of pride)
-Britain allowed to maintain a naval refueling station and harbour at Port Stanley
-Britain receives the Southern portion of the Island of Madagascar currently occupied by Argentina.

Argentina immediately agrees (ooc new player takes over on Sunday), and a new era of Argentine and British relations arises.

(ooc we prevent a Falklands War from ever happening, we should be proud)

Canada Spending 1935
2 points to pilot
4 points to four engined naval air unit
5 points to military maintainence

Does Korea have a military? If so, you need to pay upkeep.

Well, a small one, I have not figured much of it. How much upkeep?

Well, a small one, I have not figured much of it. How much upkeep?
It depends, what kind of units do you have?

Canada Spending 1935
2 points to pilot
4 points to four engined naval air unit
5 points to military maintainence

Hello, and welcome to the highly confusing point system. The build above is technically fine, but probably not what you want to go for.

Galveston Bay already posted a budget for Canada's 1935 stuff. You'll want to check that one out, and probably use it as it is, at least until you get the hang of the economic system.

It depends, what kind of units do you have?

Mostly infantry and cavalry, a few rusty old Austro-Hungarian Battlecruisers, and some artillery, not much. We do have basic trucks and limited mechanization, but again, unless auto-upgrades are in effect, I have a outdated army.

Mostly infantry and cavalry, a few rusty old Austro-Hungarian Battlecruisers, and some artillery, not much. We do have basic trucks and limited mechanization, but again, unless auto-upgrades are in effect, I have a outdated army.
I said, you scapped those out of date Battlecruisers and build two garrison units and group of destoryers

I said, you scapped those out of date Battlecruisers and build two garrison units and group of destoryers

Hmm...good plan. The hitch is, I'm still Tech 5. And, I might need help advancing.....

Give me the points, and I will build them for joo.

Hmm...good plan. The hitch is, I'm still Tech 5. And, I might need help advancing.....
First of all, Columbia should stay the HELL out of the Eastern Hemisphere.

Secondly, the Union will be happy to help. We're Reds. We don't need to be paid. Just tell me what you need.

Hey whoa now... it was just an offer.

You're very confrontational. You need a hug. Colombia will send a representative to hug Trotsky.

Hey whoa now... it was just an offer.

You're very confrontational. You need a hug. Colombia will send a representative to hug Trotsky.
АААЙЙЙЙ!!!!! Ужасно!! Это КОШМАР!!! Нет! Нет! Нет, ёб твою мать!

АААЙЙЙЙ!!!!! Ужасно!! Это КОШМАР!!! Нет! Нет! Нет, ёб твою мать!

АААЙЙЙЙ!!!!! Awfully!! It is the NIGHTMARE!!! No! No! No, ёб your mother!

Anyways... does my builds for 1935 check out?

Mostly infantry and cavalry, a few rusty old Austro-Hungarian Battlecruisers, and some artillery, not much. We do have basic trucks and limited mechanization, but again, unless auto-upgrades are in effect, I have a outdated army.

no automatic upgrades, have to purchase a new tech 6 army when you get to tech 6 (see the upgrade rules coverin conversion from 5 to 6 in the opening page of this thread)

Hmm...good plan. The hitch is, I'm still Tech 5. And, I might need help advancing.....

you will reach tech level 6 in 1936 actually

Hello, and welcome to the highly confusing point system. The build above is technically fine, but probably not what you want to go for.

Galveston Bay already posted a budget for Canada's 1935 stuff. You'll want to check that one out, and probably use it as it is, at least until you get the hang of the economic system.

it should be fine, its the one Canada had as an NPC for 1935 (chuckle).

the 4-engined naval air unit is so Canada can actually patrol one of the worlds longest coast lines, along with the huge stretch of the North Atlantic they have to deal with.

no automatic upgrades, have to purchase a new tech 6 army when you get to tech 6 (see the upgrade rules coverin conversion from 5 to 6 in the opening page of this thread)

I thought the upgrades were included in the military maintainence costs? I may be wrong though but I remember a discussion about this issue a couple RL weeks ago.

I thought the upgrades were included in the military maintainence costs? I may be wrong though but I remember a discussion about this issue a couple RL weeks ago.

upgrades within the tech level are handled by maintanence. Upgrades to a higher tech level are not handled by maintanence.

This will be very important as we get to higher tech levels by the way. Ground Units will also get smaller at tech level 7 (divisions instead of corps) but will remain at around the same price. Air units and naval units will be smaller and become more expensive. Electronics, jet engines, missiles... they are damned expensive and the reason why even the Soviets and the Americans couldn't keep up the arms race by the end of the Cold War. Tech level 8 is even worse (when everything starts getting computers etc).

upgrades within the tech level are handled by maintanence. Upgrades to a higher tech level are not handled by maintanence.

Thanks for clearing that up. :)

The newly formed USEA will spend

2 points on finishing the marine corps started the previous year.

Also GB could you change it so the front page says USEA on it instead of Vietnam, alos do I get any extra production points now that I have united with Laos and Cambodia?

One question GB: If we are building something that takes a long time (eg a ship) and the construction spills over into the next tech level (eg for me from tech 6 to 7 in 1940) does it automatically get modernised along the way or do we still have to upgrade it once it is built?

One question GB: If we are building something that takes a long time (eg a ship) and the construction spills over into the next tech level (eg for me from tech 6 to 7 in 1940) does it automatically get modernised along the way or do we still have to upgrade it once it is built?

yes, it is modernized as it is built

The newly formed USEA will spend

2 points on finishing the marine corps started the previous year.

Also GB could you change it so the front page says USEA on it instead of Vietnam, alos do I get any extra production points now that I have united with Laos and Cambodia?

yes, you get the points. I will get to the name change

The Union will return to Normal Spending beginning in May.

OOC: I've been thinking of a national effort plan that I can start, and I've come up with this one. I'd just like to know what you guys think of it (too focused towards something, for example), not because I want to have foreign nations influence it or something, but because I want to make sure I'm doing something realistic.

Note: This is not assured to be my final product. It may be, but it may not.

India's 5 Year March Program (National Effort)

1936

Maintenance:
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
Points spent: 3

Points remaining: 29

Training:

12 points for 4x motorized corps
4 points for upgrading 4x infantry corps to motorized

Points spent: 19

Points remaining: 13

Construction:

13 points for factory

Points spent: 32

Points remaining: 0

1937

Maintenance:
1 point for 4 motorized infantry
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
Points spent: 4

Points remaining: 28

Training:

Upgrading 4x infantry corps to motorized (completion)

Points spent: 4

Points remaining: 28

Construction:
23 points for factory (factory completed)

5 points for factory

Points spent: 32

Points remaining: 0

1938

Maintenance:
1 point for 4 motorized infantry
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
Points spent: 4

Points remaining: 32

Training:
x4 motorized infantry (completion)

Points spent: 4

Points remaining: 32

Construction:

31 points for factory (completion)

1 point for factory

Points spent: 32

Points remaining: 0

1939

Maintenance:
2 points for 8 motorized infantry
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
Points spent: 5

Points remaining: 35

Construction:

35 points to factory (completion)

Points spent: 40

Points remaining: 0

1940

Maintenance:
2 points for 8 motorized infantry
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
Points spent: 5

Points remaining: 39

Construction:

36 points to factory (completion)

Points spent: 41 points

Points remaining: 3

Other:

3 points to health and education

Points spent: 44

Points remaining: 0

1941

Maintenance:
2 points for 8 motorized infantry
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
Points spent: 5

Points remaining: 43

Other:

43 points to health and education (level II)

Points spent: 48

Points remaining: 0

The USEA will revert to normal spending next year.

South Africa will revert to a normal economy next year, now that there is no threat of the Chinese conflict boiling over into a more global war.

The Republic of Gran Colombia (1936)
Population:10.6 million
1936 builds: 24 points base, plus 25 for shipping and airliners + 10 Points from US

Education and Safety net (medical, welfare). - 5 points basic schools, clinics, high schools, public hospitals, orphans and widows assistance, public universities, social security type assistance for the elderly and disabled, unemployment insurance, food assistance (like food stamps), junior colleges, free health insurance, and a basic living allotment to all who aren't working.

National Maintenence:
4 x Garrison = 1p
3 x Alpine Corp = 3p
1 x Mechanized Corp = 1p
1 x HQ Unit = 1p
1 x Motorized Artillery = .5p
1 x Theatre Supply Unit = .5p
8 x Fighters = 8p
1 x Light Bomber = 1p
2 x Light Ships = 2p
3 x Flak Artillery = .75p
2 x Carrier Fighter Units = 2p
1 x Carrier Bomber Units = 1p
12 x Pilots = 3p
TOTAL: 25p

National Builds: (37p left)
1 x Fleet Carrier = 8p [1/3rd Complete] (Vincente Sewell)
1 x Fleet Carrier = 8p [1/3rd Complete] (Darío Echandía)
1 x Cruiser = 7.5p [1/2 Complete] (Manuel Ancizar)
1 x Cruiser = 7.5p [1/2 Complete] (Alberto Lleras Camargo)
1 x Merchant Marine = 3p

ooc: For future reference. GB gimme more points!! lol. I need to build another 12/14 Merchant Marine ships..

1 x Fleet Carrier = 8p [1/3rd Complete] (Gabriel García Márquez)
Isn't it a little early for a ship named after him? Or is this a different Gabriel García Márquez?

The Republic of Gran Colombia (1936)
Population:10.6 million
1936 builds: 24 points base, plus 25 for shipping and airliners + 10 Points from US

National Maintenence:
4 x Garrison = 1p
3 x Alpine Corp = 3p
1 x Mechanized Corp = 1p
1 x HQ Unit = 1p
1 x Motorized Artillery = .5p
1 x Theatre Supply Unit = .5p
8 x Fighters = 8p
1 x Light Bomber = 1p
2 x Light Ships = 2p
3 x Flak Artillery = .75p
2 x Carrier Fighter Units = 2p
1 x Carrier Bomber Units = 1p
TOTAL: 22p

ooc: For future reference.

Now, I won't complain if you want to keep this military. After all, a weak Columbia would be to my advantage. But to my reckoning, you have twelve aircraft units and no pilots, which might be problematic if you want to do anything other than subsidize the airline industry.

Also, light ship units are only .5 points each, so two of them should cost only 1 point, not two.

Edit: I just noticed something strange. Is the 2 points/million people rule still in effect? If so, then how can Columbia have 24 points and 10 million people?

Shit you're right. He was born 1928.

Now, I won't complain if you want to keep this military. After all, a weak Columbia would be to my advantage. But to my reckoning, you have twelve aircraft units and no pilots, which might be problematic if you want to do anything other than subsidize the airline industry.

Also, light ship units are only .5 points each, so two of them should cost only 1 point, not two.

Yeah, I forgot to post that upkeep.. crap. I've been building them, if you notice.

Just another annoying question here, do you think communist or capitalist politics would have any effect on the economy?

Question:

Upon returning to normal spending, I will have 13 points for 1936 (10 industry, 3 commerce), and 2% natural growth. For the sake of simple math, assume that I don't build anymore shipping units for a while. Does that growth mean that after 4 years I will have 14 points, even though I only have the population base for 10 industry points and only enough shipping for 3 commerce points?

Just another annoying question here, do you think communist or capitalist politics would have any effect on the economy?

I'm no mod, economic or otherwise. But I would think no, as the Union has been using the exact same point system as the US for years now.

On a metagame level, giving capitalists (or communists) more points would probably lead to muchkinism- players would pick political systems based on point expediency.

Now, I won't complain if you want to keep this military. After all, a weak Columbia would be to my advantage. But to my reckoning, you have twelve aircraft units and no pilots, which might be problematic if you want to do anything other than subsidize the airline industry.

Also, light ship units are only .5 points each, so two of them should cost only 1 point, not two.

Edit: I just noticed something strange. Is the 2 points/million people rule still in effect? If so, then how can Columbia have 24 points and 10 million people?

the rule is in effect, but Colombia gets free points (2) for the Panama Canal, which means he is 2 points over for production.

Question:

Upon returning to normal spending, I will have 13 points for 1936 (10 industry, 3 commerce), and 2% natural growth. For the sake of simple math, assume that I don't build anymore shipping units for a while. Does that growth mean that after 4 years I will have 14 points, even though I only have the population base for 10 industry points and only enough shipping for 3 commerce points?

Again, see the "not a mod" disclaimer.

I would say no... commerce is based on how much your ships can hold, and that's not going to increase without further construction.

Also, not having natural growth apply to ships gives an incentive to build factories. (A positive development, considering that right now a lot of nations are building only merchant marine fleets and not industrializing.)

EDIT: Actually, I may have completely misunderstood your question. If so, then sorry about that.

I'm no mod, economic or otherwise. But I would think no, as the union has been using the exact same point system as the US for years now.

On a metagame level, giving capitalists (or communists) more points would probably lead to muchkinism- players would pick political systems based on point expediency.

it will on the long term....but we really don't have any Soviet style (as in real world Soviet style) nations at this point. There is still considerable private enterprise even in the socialist nations.

tech level 7
Real world tech level 7 was reached about 1950, when nuclear powerplants, multistage missiles, guided missiles with significant range, supersonic jet aircraft and practical cargo helicopters come along.

Therefore, keeping the fact that we are 5 years ahead, this would mean that the US, UK, and Union reach tech level 7 in 1945.

Which along with the rule that no atomic energy, jets or V2 style rockets are allowed until 1940, works out correctly.

Incidently, along with the increasing cost of military units at tech level 7, social services get more expensive as well. I am thinking Level 1 services stay the same, but Level 2 - 5 services will double in cost as more technology (which is expensive) is introduced as well as more expensive medical costs (more medicines, equipment etc).

Socialized medicine is damned expensive.

Again, see the "not a mod" disclaimer.

I would say no... commerce is based on how much your ships can hold, and that's not going to increase without further construction.

Also, not having natural growth apply to ships gives an incentive to build factories. (A positive development, considering that right now a lot of nations are building only merchant marine fleets and not industrializing.)

EDIT: Actually, I may have completely misunderstood your question. If so, then sorry about that.

Consider yourself a deputy economic mod by the way

Consider yourself a deputy economic mod by the way

Ironic, since I haven't actually started playing yet.

tech level 7

Incidently, along with the increasing cost of military units at tech level 7, social services get more expensive as well. I am thinking Level 1 services stay the same, but Level 2 - 5 services will double in cost as more technology (which is expensive) is introduced as well as more expensive medical costs (more medicines, equipment etc).

Socialized medicine is damned expensive.

True, but this seems odd to me somehow. If a country advances to TL 7 and has to pay double price for social services, one really has to ask why. After all, it should be possible to provide the old services at the same cost as before, and punishing nations for rising in tech level doesn't make sense anyway.

The only solution that comes to mind immediately would be an add-on to social services. 3 points/10 million people/turn for tech level 7 medicine, or something similar.

True, but this seems odd to me somehow. If a country advances to TL 7 and has to pay double price for social services, one really has to ask why. After all, it should be possible to provide the old services at the same cost as before, and punishing nations for rising in tech level doesn't make sense anyway.

The only solution that comes to mind immediately would be an add-on to social services. 3 points/10 million people/turn for tech level 7 medicine, or something similar.

I can accept a +1 point cost for level 2 and 3 services, and + 2 for level 4 and + 5 for level 5 services at Tech level 7.

At tech level 8 they go up again. Mainly because historically, the costs of these services do increase much faster than the inflation rate because they become more complex to deliver, the bureaucracies become bloated no matter what is attempted, and more goodies are added. It is also a way to simulate some of the inefficiencies built into socialist or regulated capitalist economies in a relatively simple manner.

(my college minor was public policy studies, and I have worked in social services for nearly 20 years (ack) which is why I feel justified on my facts on this one).

Sounds fine. The only thing I was worrying about was some country becoming tech level 7 and suddenly being unable to provide for its citizens.

I can accept a +1 point cost for level 2 and 3 services, and + 2 for level 4 and + 5 for level 5 services at Tech level 7.

At tech level 8 they go up again. Mainly because historically, the costs of these services do increase much faster than the inflation rate because they become more complex to deliver, the bureaucracies become bloated no matter what is attempted, and more goodies are added. It is also a way to simulate some of the inefficiencies built into socialist or regulated capitalist economies in a relatively simple manner.

(my college minor was public policy studies, and I have worked in social services for nearly 20 years (ack) which is why I feel justified on my facts on this one).

I have a question about that. If we keep this trend up, then it'll be eventually impossible to sustain social services for advanced tech societies. For example, once we reach a certain tech level, the maximum social spending will need 110% of what you can actually produce.

Tech level X...

Level 1 Social = 1 point per 10 million.
Level 2 Social = 5 points per 10 million
Level 3 Social = 7 points per 10 million.
Level 4 Social = 10 points per 10 million.
Level 5 Social = 13 points per 10 million (130% of your maximum possible production)

Hope I made sense.

I have a question about that. If we keep this trend up, then it'll be eventually impossible to sustain social services for advanced tech societies. For example, once we reach a certain tech level, the maximum social spending will need 110% of what you can actually produce.

Tech level X...

Level 1 Social = 1 point per 10 million.
Level 2 Social = 5 points per 10 million
Level 3 Social = 7 points per 10 million.
Level 4 Social = 10 points per 10 million.
Level 5 Social = 13 points per 10 million (130% of your maximum possible production)

Hope I made sense.

Noticed that did you? Its happening in real life to a number of US states. However, as we won't get to tech level 9 most likely before the end of the 20th Century that shouldn't be a problem. Makes military budgets shrink too during peacetime. Which is also historically accurate.

However, productivity per million increases as well to 4 per million at tech level 7 and again at tech level 8 and 9 productivity increases.

Noticed that did you? Its happening in real life to a number of US states. However, as we won't get to tech level 9 most likely before the end of the 20th Century that shouldn't be a problem. Makes military budgets shrink too during peacetime. Which is also historically accurate.

However, productivity per million increases as well to 4 per million at tech level 7 and again at tech level 8 and 9 productivity increases.

Thanks for clearing that up. Good thing we don't have to worry about these advanced tech levels until probably this spring in RL or later.

Hey GB, do you have any objections to the build I posted a few pages back? Is it unrealistic in anyway?

Hey GB, do you have any objections to the build I posted a few pages back? Is it unrealistic in anyway?

I will get back to you on that

I will get back to you on that

Roger that.

Ok, Lightning Star. Here's my first look at your proposed build. Disclaimer: I don't know of any special economic situations in India. I'm using information from the front page, so I may diverge from reality. Also, I'm not a mod.

First, and on a very very basic level: Look at China. National Effort programs without welfare programs are very risky. If I were you, I would cut it down to perhaps three years of National Effort. India, like China, has elements (Pakistan) that may break off if the going gets tough, and revolution has a tendency to spread.

That said, about your actual program:
The very first year, you spend "4 points for upgrading 4x infantry corps to mechanized." I'm assuming that you mean "four corps of regular infantry". If so, why aren't you paying upkeep for them?

Other than that, the first year looks just fine.

Now for the second year (1937): Military training is completing the upgrades from the previous year, but unless I'm reading the front page wrong, you only need to spend 4 points per unit to upgrade. Again, there's the issue with the "invisible" infantry corps that are being upgraded but aren't on your maintainence list. Other than that, looks good.

The third year, you're still listing upgrading infantry. Other than that, your numbers are good.

Fourth year is fine.

Fifth year (1940), looks good to me.

Finally, the sixth year is also OK point-wise, but spending 43 points on health and education isn't sustainable for the long run, assuming you would then be going back to Normal Spending. If I were you, I might build a stronger military instead of a one-year push on spending.

By the way, you may want to keep two things in mind:
First, increasing industry is great, but if you're looking for income, merchant marine is better.
Second, your plan lasts for six years. Why is it called India's Five Year March Program?

That said, about your actual program:
The very first year, you spend "4 points for upgrading 4x infantry corps to mechanized." I'm assuming that you mean "four corps of regular infantry". If so, why aren't you paying upkeep for them?

he has tech level 5 infantry and tech level 5 infantry and garrison corps are free (maintanence wise)

he has tech level 5 infantry and tech level 5 infantry and garrison corps are free (maintanence wise)

Do'oh! I can't believe I missed that!

By the way, I think I know why the confusion about upgrading the infantry taking three years come from. On the front page, it says

Upgrading a corps from infantry to motorized, motorized to mechanized 1 / turn for each level of upgrade. Corps cannot enter combat while being upgraded


This wording is confusing, but I think that this means it takes 1 turn to upgrade from infantry to motorized, and another one turn (and one point) to upgrade from motorized to mechanized. I still can't figure out why he's got them upgrading for three whole years, though. (There are six turns in a year, yes)?

Now what the hell is all this nonsense about social services getting more expensive and productivity increasing?

This wording is confusing, but I think that this means it takes 1 turn to upgrade from infantry to motorized, and another one turn (and one point) to upgrade from motorized to mechanized. I still can't figure out why he's got them upgrading for three whole years, though. (There are six turns in a year, yes)?

that is correct, each turn is 2 months, so 6 months to convert from infantry to armored, or 4 months from infantry to mechanized

I can accept a +1 point cost for level 2 and 3 services, and + 2 for level 4 and + 5 for level 5 services at Tech level 7.

At tech level 8 they go up again. Mainly because historically, the costs of these services do increase much faster than the inflation rate because they become more complex to deliver, the bureaucracies become bloated no matter what is attempted, and more goodies are added. It is also a way to simulate some of the inefficiencies built into socialist or regulated capitalist economies in a relatively simple manner.

(my college minor was public policy studies, and I have worked in social services for nearly 20 years (ack) which is why I feel justified on my facts on this one).

thats why

thats why
I didn't ask why, I asked what. Don't make me go back and read however many pages of conversation about whatever it is to find out.

I didn't ask why, I asked what. Don't make me go back and read however many pages of conversation about whatever it is to find out.

Maximum productivity goes up to 4 points/million people when you hit tech level 7. Social services costs increase as per GB's post. That's it.

French Spending, Remainder of Year

16 points

The French shipyards lay down the hull of the Richelieu.

The Richelieu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_battleship_Richelieu)

[Tech 6 Battleship attack 4 protection 6, speed 6, range 4, (can trade) Cost 11 build time 4 years (15 inch guns)]

September-October

Tech 6 Battleship (8 points)

Novemer-December

Tech 6 Battleship (3 points)

Factory (5 points)

French Spending, Remainder of Year

16 points

The French shipyards lay down the hull of the Richelieu.

The Richelieu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_battleship_Richelieu)

[Tech 6 Battleship attack 4 protection 7, speed 4, range 6, (can trade) Cost 11 build time 4 years (15 inch guns)]

September-October

Tech 6 Battleship (8 points)


Novemer-December

Tech 6 Battleship (3 points)

Factory (5 points)

historic Richelieu class was attack 4, protection 6, speed 6, range 4, and the ship is considered one of the better battleships ever built.

historic Richelieu class was attack 4, protection 6, speed 6, range 4, and the ship is considered one of the better battleships ever built.

Righto.

Preliminary Builds for 1936:
Switch to Nation Effort
8(x2) (Industry) + 2 (Airlines) + 12 (Union Aid)* = 30 Points

1.75 points for Military up-keep
12 For Finishing Factory
2 For Pilot Unit
2 For Fighter Unit
5 For Education and the like
2 For One Flak Artillery Unit (Budapest)
3 For One Mechanized Anti-Tank Unit
2 For One Field Artillery Unit

TOTAL SPENT: 29.75

Okay, I really don't think I have got the hang of this but here goes. Help appreciated.

1935

Population of Brazil = 35 million (estimate)

Build Points= 12 (with the 1 point assistance of the Union)

Spending

Level 2 Education and safety net- 7 points
Military Upkeep- ? The rest of the points I would guess.

Although I havn't posted in this format before, I'd like to assume that my military is fairly modern and well equipped, and that the upkeep would be accounted for by my 5 point surplus.



Seriously though, help appreciated. I'm rather unsure not as to how the system works, but how best to manipulate it.

What units do you have? Five points doesn't seem excessive, but it's possible that your actual military costs are lower.

In general, the best way to exploit the system is to get a 30-point/turn merchant marine fleet as fast as possible.

USEA Build:

Military Maintenance:

3x Infantry Corps .75 points

1x pilot .25 points

1x fighter unit 1 point

Therefore 2 points spent on maintenance.

French Military and Preliminary Build for '36



Current Points: 93 (-1% for War Economy last year) 73 points from factories, 18 points from shipping, 2 points for airlines.

Active Military
1xMech Corps
1xAlpine Corps
2xCoastal Artillery
1xFlak Artillery

2xLight Ship Units
2xSub Units
5xLight Cruisers
2xEscort Carriers

1xFighter Unit
1xNaval Bomber Unit
1xCarrier Fighter Unit
1xCarrier Bomber Unit

2xPilots
2xCarrier Pilots

Reserve Military
2xMech Corps
1xFlak Artillery
1xMechanized Anti-Tank Unit
2xFighter Units
2xBomber Units
1xNaval Bomber Unit
1xHQ
1xMarine Corps

4xPilots


Maintence: 23 points

Military Build/Spending

FS Richelieu (Paid for in full last year, four and half years until completion)

FS Victory (Fleet Carrier, one year left on construction)

Carrier Fighter (2 points)

Carrier Bomber (2 points)

2 pilots (4 points)

Sub-total: 8 points total


Domestic Spending:

20 points for Level 3 Social Services

7 points toward Factory#1 (started last year, 24 points remaing)

6 points to start Factory#2 (30 points remaining)

6 points to start Factory#3 (30 points remaining)

Sub-total: 39 points

10 points to China


Total Spending: 90 points


EDIT: (Secret) 3 points to long-range/multi-stage rockets

So. Just stopped aid to India. Frees up a few points for more military construction, which I'll post tonight.

I'm a little confused about the rules for upgrading and building military forces.

If a tech level 5 country builds an infantry unit, is it tech level 5 or tech level 6? Can this country upgrade their troops without being tech level 6? And can they buy other things (such as fighters) on the international market at tech level 6?

I'm a little confused about the rules for upgrading and building military forces.

If a tech level 5 country builds an infantry unit, is it tech level 5 or tech level 6? Can this country upgrade their troops without being tech level 6? And can they buy other things (such as fighters) on the international market at tech level 6?

tech level 5 nations can only build tech level 5 units UNLESS a tech level 6 nation is willing to sell them arms. In which case that nation has built a tech level 6 unit (and must pay maintanence accordingly). Fighters, ships, armored corps, all can be purchased if someone is willing to sell.

However, if destroyed in combat, unless a source of tech level 6 equipment exists, if rebuilt it comes back as tech level 5

tech level 5 nations can only build tech level 5 units UNLESS a tech level 6 nation is willing to sell them arms. In which case that nation has built a tech level 6 unit (and must pay maintanence accordingly). Fighters, ships, armored corps, all can be purchased if someone is willing to sell.

However, if destroyed in combat, unless a source of tech level 6 equipment exists, if rebuilt it comes back as tech level 5

Does that mean the hawker hurricanes I purchased from Great Britain make up a tech level 6 fighter unit?

Does that mean the hawker hurricanes I purchased from Great Britain make up a tech level 6 fighter unit?

yes

Nice

Projected Rumanian Build, 1936

Points: 25 (20 From industry, 3 from Merchant Marine, +1 for Growth_
Normal Spending, 2% Growth
TECH LEVEL 6 REACHED

Military Upkeep
1 Motorised Corp Disbanded
3xMotorised Corp(2 in Reserve)-.75 Points
1xLight Ship Counter-.25 Points
2xLight Crusiers-.5 Points
1xHeavy Cruiser-.25 Points
1xPilot.25 Points
1xTech 6 Fighter Unit(IAR 81Cs)-1 Point

Total Upkeep:3 points

Military Build
Upgrade Heavy Cruiser to Tech 6-2 Points
Upgrade 2 Light Cruisers to Tech 6-4 Points
Upgrade 1 Light Ship Counter(10 Destroyers) to Tech6-2 Points
Upgrade 3 Motorised Corp to Tech 6-5 Points
Build 1 Field Artillery Unit-2 Points
Train Pilot-2 Points

Total Build:17 Points

Domestic Spending

Level 4 Social Services for 10 Million people-5 Points

Total Spending:25 Points
Surpus:0 Points

IAR-81 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAR_81#IAR.81C)

Total Spending:23 Points
Surpus: 2 Points


A surplus is totally useless. Use it to update more troops, build more units, support your allies, or something else.

If all else fails, give it to Argentina as a charitable contribution.

A surplus is totally useless. Use it to update more troops, build more units, support your allies, or something else.

If all else fails, give it to Argentina as a charitable contribution.

I have followed your advice =)

1936 Build for China- Proposed

Income: 50 industrial points, multiplied x3 for Wartime Economy
14 Commerce points
10 Points Aid from France
Total: 174 points available.

Military Forces- Beginning of year
tech level 6 forces
11 x 5 point infantry corps, 9 x 2 point flak units, 2 DW520 fighter units, 2 pilots, 1 international airline, 1 national airline, 2 pilots
tech level 5 forces
13 x 3 point garrison units, 1 P26 fighter unit, 1 A12 bomber unit, 2 pilots, 1 light ship (40 torpedo boats),
other forces
12 shipping units
Maintence: 9.25 points
Remaining: 164.25

Domestic Expenditures:

40 points for Level I social spending for 400 million Chinese.
84 points to rebuild fourteen factories.
Remaining: 40.75

Military Expenditures:
18 points to upgrade 9 tech level 6 infantry units to mechanized corps.
10 points for 5x pilot
6 points for 3x fighter
6 points for 2x bomber

Chinese economy (end of year):
78 points industry
14 points commerce
Total: 92 points

Remaining: .75 points (Put it into training for my pilots to increase their proficiency at flying the French aircraft)

Chinese military (end of year):
tech level 6 forces
9 x mechanized corps, 2x infantry corps, 9 x 2 point flak units, 5 DW520 fighter units, 2 bomber units (French design), 7 pilots, 1 international airline, 1 national airline
tech level 5 forces
13 x 3 point garrison units, 1 P26 fighter unit, 1 A12 bomber unit, 2 pilots, 1 light ship (40 torpedo boats),
Other forces
12 shipping units
Upkeep: 24.25

--------------------------------

Big time thanks goes to Middle Snu for the advice. :)

1936 Normal Spending, includes the whole SU(Sweden, Denmark and Norway.)

Points-24 base factory(+5 from total growth), 17 trade
46 total points to spend-2% growth for next year=+.58 points

8.5 points- maintenance
6 points- Lv 4 welfare
30 points-10 shipping units

So. Just stopped aid to India. Frees up a few points for more military construction, which I'll post tonight.
Actually, I'll make those eighteen points a "peace dividend," and use them to fund programs and incentives intended to stimulate internal migration and interethnic marriage, so as to bind the Sovereign People together more closely.

We're not the warmongering Kapitaliszt swine-pigs, after all.

After the Chinese build, I'm ready for more. If anyone wants me to create a national build for them, just TG me with your priorities, military forces, and (if possible) your last build. I'll do the rest.

Hopefully this will help those who like the concept of e20, if not the economic system.

After the Chinese build, I'm ready for more. If anyone wants me to create a national build for them, just TG me with your priorities, military forces, and (if possible) your last build. I'll do the rest.

Hopefully this will help those who like the concept of e20, if not the economic system.


where were you 2 weeks ago??

lol.

Yugoslavia
1936
Base points: 23
Merchant Marine: 5
Foreign Assistance: 12
Total Points: 40

Industrial Builds:
14 points into Factories(14 more points needed for completion)

National Maintenence:
6 Points for Military
10 Points for Welfare

National Builds:
2x Merchant Marine 6 points
1x unit of Stuka B's or D's whichever is out now. 2 points
1x pilots 2 points

Total points spent: 40 points

Final USEA build for 1935:

8 points (4x points from wartime economy + 4x points from shipping)

1x Light Ship unit 8 points

ships laid up (placed in reserve) do not cost maintenance, however, to bring them out of reserve they are treated as requiring repairs (2 points per unit) in order to bring them back into service.

Sweet. Can we do the same with planes?

Sweet. Can we do the same with planes?

nope, planes don't have a long shelf life technology wise... at tech level 6 anyway. At tech level 8 it changes, and at tech level 7 for some aircraft

Lame.

USA 1936
US Population (1935) 140 million
106 factories (212 production points available x 2 = 424 (National Effort, +1% growth for next year) plus 6 points for the Philippines, 34 points for shipping and airlines. 464 points total

Military maintenance
162 points
National Safety net (level 5 spending)(unemployment insurance, food stamps, junior college system) 70 points
National Safety net for Philippines (level 2 spending) 2 points
10 points to Japan (represents US oil and steel exports to Japan)
10 points to Colombia (last year of assistance)
10 points to Korea (general aid)
10 points to Central America (NPC nations, for social service assistance)
274 total points

Under construction (already paid for)
2 North Carolina class battleships (South Dakota, Indiana, available July 1936)
2 Montana class battleships (Montana, Texas, available January 1937)
1 Essex class fleet carrier (available July 1936, Essex)

New Construction points available
Panama Canal expansion (year 1 of 4) (24 points paid up front)
Saint Lawrence Seaway project (year 1 of 4) (paid up front)(30 points, Canada to reimburse US for its share)
Intercoastal Waterway project (year 1 of 4) (24 points, paid up front)
1 factory for the Philippines (18 points)
5 carrier torpedo bombers (Avenger) 5 points
2 Army fighter units (P38) 6 points
Television guided bombs and missiles research 3 points (very secret)
Atomic energy research (powerplant applications) 1 point (very secret)
Multi stage rocket research 1 point
Rural Electrication Project (costs the same as level1 social services for 2 years) 14 points
10 anti aircraft light cruisers (San Pedro class) 60 points
2 Army pilots 4 points
190 points total

Preliminary Builds for 1936:
Switch to Nation Effort
8(x2) (Industry) + 2 (Airlines) + 12 (Union Aid)* = 30 Points

1.75 points for Military up-keep
12 For Finishing Factory
2 For Pilot Unit
2 For Fighter Unit
5 For Education and the like
3 For Upgrading Three Reserve Infantry Units into Three Motorized Units
2 For One Anti-Tank Unit
2 For One Field Artillery Unit

TOTAL SPENT: 29.75

Updated builds for 1936 do to Rumanian military build-up.

USA 1936
US Population (1935) 140 million
106 factories (212 production points available x 2 = 424 (National Effort, +1% growth for next year) plus 6 points for the Philippines, 34 points for shipping and airlines. 464 points total

Military maintenance
162 points
National Safety net (level 5 spending)(unemployment insurance, food stamps, junior college system) 70 points
National Safety net for Philippines (level 2 spending) 2 points
10 points to Japan (represents US oil and steel exports to Japan)
10 points to Colombia (last year of assistance)
10 points to Korea (general aid)
10 points to Central America (NPC nations, for social service assistance)
274 total points

Under construction (already paid for)
2 North Carolina class battleships (South Dakota, Indiana, available July 1936)
2 Montana class battleships (Montana, Texas, available January 1937)
1 Essex class fleet carrier (available July 1936, Essex)

New Construction points available
Panama Canal expansion (year 1 of 4) (24 points paid up front)
Saint Lawrence Seaway project (year 1 of 4) (paid up front)(30 points, Canada to reimburse US for its share)
Intercoastal Waterway project (year 1 of 4) (24 points, paid up front)
1 factory for the Philippines (18 points)
5 carrier torpedo bombers (Avenger) 5 points
2 Army fighter units (P38) 6 points
Television guided bombs and missiles research 3 points (very secret)
Atomic energy research (powerplant applications) 1 point (very secret)
Multi stage rocket research 1 point
Rural Electrication Project (costs the same as level1 social services for 2 years) 14 points
10 anti aircraft light cruisers (San Pedro class) 60 points
2 Army pilots 4 points
190 points total


No aid for the USEAS? or is that for next year?

Also could you put a list up of all the civilian projects like rural electrification that we can do, its sorta annoying having to hunt round American and Union posts to find them.

No aid for the USEAS? or is that for next year?

Also could you put a list up of all the civilian projects like rural electrification that we can do, its sorta annoying having to hunt round American and Union posts to find them.

you got basically 46 points of aid last year, which gives you 2 more factories (4 more points a year at normal spending, 6 at national effort), a free bump to tech level 5, and a modernized military. So the US figures you pretty well off at this point. However, the US is willing to provide aid next year.

Rural electrication requires tech level 6, plus spending the equilivant of level 1 social services to spread it out. Rural electrification also provides telephone service to the same areas.

Canada

Planned Spending 1936
5 points to Saint Lawrence Seaway
4 points to military maintainence
4 points to Education and Safety net

Ohh so you gave it to me last year, sorry got confused.

Have all those aid points been automatically spent or do i have to rush up a big long list of what to do with them before I can no longer use them?

Ohh so you gave it to me last year, sorry got confused.

Have all those aid points been automatically spent or do i have to rush up a big long list of what to do with them before I can no longer use them?

the military points can be spent as you like.. the other points were spent on you for improved railroads, harbors etc which brought you up to tech level 5. A lot of that work continues through 1936, which improves your economy and tech level as well as support industries and the local service economy benefit from all of the money spent.

The 1936, The MEU has ended its national effort and return to normal spending mode which means we only get 22 points plus 42 points from the Soviets, and 6 points from the cargo shipping, so in total 70 points this turn alone

26 points for maintaining the arm forces, just leaving 44 for Government projects

12 points for four shipping units

4 points for 4 Tech 5 light cruiser

2 naval fighters for 4 points

two naval Pilots for 4 points

20 points for Level III State Education and Welfare Programs

4 points for two shipping units


Shipping units are 3 each, so that should be at least 6 points. On the other hand, I would just skip the factory if I were you. It costs 36 points to build one factory, increasing your production by two points. It costs only six points to build shipping units, which do the exact same thing.

OK USEA build with military aid from the U.S.A

10 points (Military aid)

3x Garrison units (Hanoi, Vientiane, Phnom Penh) 9 points

Upgrading 2nd infantry corps to motorized 1 point

Shipping units are 3 each, so that should be at least 6 points. On the other hand, I would just skip the factory if I were you. It costs 36 points to build one factory, increasing your production by two points. It costs only six points to build shipping units, which do the exact same thing.
Thanks for the advice, I have edit my post, btw do you have AIM or MSN?

Thanks for the advice, I have edit my post, btw do you have AIM or MSN?

Yep. My AIM is servantofwhop.

Korean Build-

1936


Korean Build-


National Effort- 10 points, plus 10 points from United States plus 17 extra from Union.

OOC: By now, I should be Tech 6, so....

And what of those planes and pilots I trained?

IC:

1936-

devotion of 15 points (8 donated (Union), 7 domestic) to support for basic schools, clinics, high schools, public hospitals, orphans and widows assistance, plus to back public universities and social security type assistance for the elderly and disabled, plus unemployment insurance, food assistance (like food stamps), junior colleges
2 points (allocated from US Donations) for upkeep of ground forces
12 points for a factory (to be done in 6 turns, represents KWP Mutual Aid Fund beginning microloans for small businesses (9 Union pts), and beginnings of government-private sector cooperation (3 domestic pts))

Military-
8 points (allocated from US Aid) for 4 units of Flak Artillery, to be stationed near Seoul, Pyongyang, Pusan and Sinujiu.

Ships in Korean Navy service will be gradually disbanded. We are looking for contractors to provide us with new good quality ships for a low price. We are also looking for good airplanes, for a low cost, and help training pilots.

Bulgaria plans to use its 1936 points on redeveloping the armed forces as well as education, industry and national welfare... The kingdom will go to regular production for Tech and Social Level 5 when we hit 1937... (population is now 5.3 million.

OOC: Fixed that little mistake.

New British economy stuff (1936)

Population: 45m (1936), a normal economy, 2% growth, yields 127 points (including 2 from airlines, 28 from shipping)

MILITARY MAINTENANCE

Total: 68 points

BUILDS

36 points towards a factory (now 36/72 built)

Total: 36 points

Plus pre-paid construction:
4 Tech 6 Battleships attack 5, protection 8, speed 6, range 7 (16" guns) 2 in 1938 1 in 1939 1 in 1940 (Similar to Temeraire/Lion Class), to be known as HMS Lion, Temeraire, Conqueror and Thunder
1 Tech 6 Super battleship attack 6, protection 8, speed 5, range 5, (18" guns), ready 1941 (No relevant class) To be known as HMS Vanguard

DOMESTIC OUTLAYS

5 points per 10 million people= 23 points on welfare, yields a NHS, basic education, income support etc.

Total: 23 points

RESEARCH

None currently undertaken (apart from Frank Whittle’s jet engine which has already been invested in)

FOREIGN AID

NONE

Total: 0

TOTAL=127 POINTS SPENT THIS TURN

(Realised that I have been paying over the odds for cruisers and destroyers/subs in the past (at .5 points apiece instead of .25) so I have refudged my military a bit. See military thread for details.)

GB how many production points will I have for this year?

Argentina Build 1936

Economy-start of year
11 points base

Military-start of year
1 mechanized corps, 2 reserve infantry corps, 1 reserve garrison unit, 2 fighter units (A6M), 3 fighter units, 1 bomber unit (Mosquito), 6 pilots, 2 tech level 6 County type light cruisers, 10 tech level 6 destroyers (modernized)

Points available:
11 points base, x2 for National Effort=22 points
14 points from Union (sales from two ships)
Total: 36 points

Military spending:
Military maintenance-11 points
Upgrade 1 reserve infantry corps to reserve mechanized corps-2 points
7x shipping unit
Remaining: 2 points

Social spending:
Level II services for 10 million-2 points
Remaining: 0

Military- end of year
1 mechanized corps, 2 reserve infantry corps, 1 reserve garrison unit, 2 fighter units (A6M), 3 fighter units, 1 bomber unit (Mosquito), 6 pilots, 2 tech level 6 County type light cruisers, 10 tech level 6 destroyers (modernized), 7 shipping units. Maintenance: 11.75

Economy- End of year
11 points base+ 7 commerce

you can easily dump those 3 fighter units Argentina... they are obsolete tech level 5 biplanes

1936 Build for China- Revised

Income: 50 industrial points, multiplied x3 for Wartime Economy
14 Commerce points
10 Points Aid from France
3 Points aid from Korea
Total: 174 points available.

Military Forces- Beginning of year
tech level 6 forces
11 x 5 point infantry corps, 9 x 2 point flak units, 2 DW520 fighter units, 2 pilots, 1 international airline, 1 national airline, 2 pilots
tech level 5 forces
13 x 3 point garrison units, 1 P26 fighter unit, 1 A12 bomber unit, 2 pilots, 1 light ship (40 torpedo boats),
other forces
12 shipping units
Maintenance: 9.25 points
Remaining: 167.25

Domestic Expenditures:

45 points for Level II social spending for 225 million Chinese. (All those who aren’t covered by the Union.)
78 points to rebuild 13 factories.
Remaining: 44.25

Military Expenditures:
16 points to upgrade 8 tech level 6 infantry units to mechanized corps.
10 points for 5x pilot
6 points for 3x fighter
6 points for 2x bomber
6 points for 3x anti-tank unit

Remaining: .25 points (surplus)

Chinese economy (end of year):
76 points industry
14 points commerce
Total: 90 points

Chinese military (end of year):
tech level 6 forces
8 x mechanized corps, 3x infantry corps, 3x anti-tank unit 9 x 2 point flak units, 5 DW520 fighter units, 2 bomber units (two-engined), 7 pilots, 1 international airline, 1 national airline
tech level 5 forces
13 x 3 point garrison units, 1 P26 fighter unit, 1 A12 bomber unit, 2 pilots, 1 light ship (40 torpedo boats),
Other forces
12 shipping units
Upkeep: 26.5

Canada is a NPC at this point
Build points 23 (1 point for commerce plus 11 factories, 1 shipping unit)

Level 5 social services for 10 million people – 5 points,
Military forces: 2 mechanized infantry corps (reserve), 2 infantry corps (reserve), 1 HQ, 1 fighter unit (Hurricane II), 1 pilot, 1 tech level 6 light cruiser, 10 tech level 6 destroyers (East Coast), 1 2-engined naval air unit, 1 pilot (west coast), 1 pilot, 1 x 4-engined naval air unit (B24) (east coast)
military maintenance 11 points
Saint Lawrence Seaway 7 points (partial payment)

Final USEA build for 1935:

8 points (4x points from wartime economy + 4x points from shipping)

1x Light Ship unit 8 points

As of 1936
USEA has 1 factory in Laos, 1 factory in Cambodia, 1 factory in Hanoi, and 1 factory in Saigon plus 1 factory (accelerated growth and points spent) at Cam Ranh Bay (which is now a blue port instead of a white one). A white port exists in the clear hex on the Cambodian coast adjacent to Phomh Penh. All cities in Indochina will be connected by rail. The USEA is tech level 5.

This gives the USEA 5 points production at reduced spending, 10 at peacetime, 20 at National Effort and 30 at Wartime spending.

Plus whatever aid and commerce it can generate.

The Republic of Gran Colombia (1936)
Population:10.6 million
1936 builds: 24 points base, plus 25 for shipping and airliners + 10 Points from US

Education and Safety net (medical, welfare). - 5 points basic schools, clinics, high schools, public hospitals, orphans and widows assistance, public universities, social security type assistance for the elderly and disabled, unemployment insurance, food assistance (like food stamps), junior colleges, free health insurance, and a basic living allotment to all who aren't working.

National Maintenence:
4 x Garrison = 1p
3 x Alpine Corp = 3p
1 x Mechanized Corp = 1p
1 x HQ Unit = 1p
1 x Motorized Artillery = .5p
1 x Theatre Supply Unit = .5p
8 x Fighters = 8p
1 x Light Bomber = 1p
2 x Light Ships = 2p
3 x Flak Artillery = .75p
2 x Carrier Fighter Units = 2p
1 x Carrier Bomber Units = 1p
TOTAL: 22p

National Builds: (37p left)
1 x Fleet Carrier = 8p [1/3rd Complete] (Vincente Sewell)
1 x Fleet Carrier = 8p [1/3rd Complete] (Darío Echandía)
1 x Cruiser = 7.5p [1/2 Complete] (Manuel Ancizar)
1 x Cruiser = 7.5p [1/2 Complete] (Alberto Lleras Camargo)
1 x Merchant Marine = 3p
1 x Fleet Carrier upgrade to tech 6 = 3p


Just bumping...

As of 1936
USEA has 1 factory in Laos, 1 factory in Cambodia, 1 factory in Hanoi, and 1 factory in Saigon plus 1 factory (accelerated growth and points spent) at Cam Ranh Bay (which is now a blue port instead of a white one). A white port exists in the clear hex on the Cambodian coast adjacent to Phomh Penh. All cities in Indochina will be connected by rail. The USEA is tech level 5.

This gives the USEA 5 points production at reduced spending, 10 at peacetime, 20 at National Effort and 30 at Wartime spending.

Plus whatever aid and commerce it can generate.

Blue port? White port? What does that mean?

Blue port? White port? What does that mean?
It refers to colors on his Hex map.

Blue = major port
White = minor port

French Build edited to include:

EDIT: (Secret) 3 points to long-range/multi-stage rockets

USEA 1936 build

14 points ( 10 from factories in Cam Ranh, Saigon, Hanoi, Phnom Penh and Vientiane + 4 from 2,000,000 tons of shipping)

Domestic:

Level III social spending 6 points

2x Shipping Unit (500,000 tons) 6 points


Military:

Military Maintenace:
2x Infantry corps free
1x Motorized .25 points
1x pilot .25 points
1x fighter unit 1 point
1x Marine unit .50 points

Total = 2 points

USEA 1936 build

14 points ( 10 from factories in Cam Ranh, Saigon, Hanoi, Phnom Penh and Vientiane + 4 from 2,000,000 tons of shipping)

Domestic:

Level III social spending 6 points

1x Shipping unit 3 points


Military:

1x Heavy Cruiser 2 points

Military Maintenace:
2x Infantry corps free
1x Motorized .25 points
1x pilot .25 points
1x fighter unit 1 point
1x Marine unit .50 points

Total = 2 points


who is selling you a heavy cruiser? As far a getting a navy started goes, the US is willing to supply you with 1 tech level 5 light ship unit (40 corvettes) which basically creates a Coast Guard to patrol your coasts.

Cheap, as it would only cost you .25 points a year to maintain. Cruisers are more expensive, at tech level 6 they cost .5 points a year for one ship or the same price for 5 tech level 5 light cruisers (although practically none of those remain in service with the leading navies at this point and no one is building any)

who is selling you a heavy cruiser? As far a getting a navy started goes, the US is willing to supply you with 1 tech level 5 light ship unit (40 corvettes) which basically creates a Coast Guard to patrol your coasts.

Cheap, as it would only cost you .25 points a year to maintain. Cruisers are more expensive, at tech level 6 they cost .5 points a year for one ship or the same price for 5 tech level 5 light cruisers (although practically none of those remain in service with the leading navies at this point and no one is building any)

Cant I just build my own?
And I have already started building a tech level 5 light ship unit last year that will be finished in December this year.
Do I have to go and find people who will sell me these so I can have them?

Cant I just build my own?
And I have already started building a tech level 5 light ship unit last year that will be finished in December this year.
Do I have to go and find people who will sell me these so I can have them?

depends on the tech level of the ship you want.. you can only build tech level 5 warships. You lack the industrial base to build much more than light ships though, I would suggest your first light ship consist of 40 corvettes, which gives you some anti submarine capability, and the ability to actually patrol your coasts against smugglers and the like (not to mention pirates, which are a problem in the South China Sea, a problem that still exists in the 21st Century).

A tech level 5 heavy cruiser is meat on the table against any of your possible enemies.

depends on the tech level of the ship you want.. you can only build tech level 5 warships. You lack the industrial base to build much more than light ships though, I would suggest your first light ship consist of 40 corvettes, which gives you some anti submarine capability, and the ability to actually patrol your coasts against smugglers and the like (not to mention pirates, which are a problem in the South China Sea, a problem that still exists in the 21st Century).

A tech level 5 heavy cruiser is meat on the table against any of your possible enemies.

Okay so keep the light ships and scrap the heavy cruiser. Yes?
Also what determines if I have the industrial base to support building a heavy cruiser? I have the tech level and enough points so what is the other determining factor?

Okay so keep the light ships and scrap the heavy cruiser. Yes?
Also what determines if I have the industrial base to support building a heavy cruiser? I have the tech level and enough points so what is the other determining factor?

its a pretty new tech level for your country, a couple of years should reasonably go by. But yes, eventually you can build anything at tech level 5 you wish.

Ok thanks

Seeing how no one voiced any discontent with my plans, without further ado, I hereby initiate my economic plans for the next five years:

India's 5 Year March Program (National Effort)

1936

Maintenance:
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
Points spent: 3

Points remaining: 29

Training:

12 points for 4x motorized corps
4 points for upgrading 4x infantry corps to motorized

Points spent: 19

Points remaining: 13

Construction:

13 points for factory

Points spent: 32

Points remaining: 0

Foreign Aid:
26 points from Great Britain:
20 points to the welfare system (level I services for the 200,000,000 poorest citizens)
6 points to building 2 transports for international shipping

Points spent of Foreign Aid: 26

Points remaining: 0

1937

Maintenance:
1 point for 4 motorized infantry
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
Points spent: 4

Points remaining: 28

Training:

Upgrading 4x infantry corps to motorized (completion)

Points spent: 4

Points remaining: 28

Construction:
23 points for factory (factory completed)

5 points for factory

Points spent: 32

Points remaining: 0

1938

Maintenance:
1 point for 4 motorized infantry
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
Points spent: 4

Points remaining: 32

Training:
x4 motorized infantry (completion)

Points spent: 0

Points remaining: 32

Construction:

31 points for factory (completion)

1 point for factory

Points spent: 36

Points remaining: 0

1939

Maintenance:
2 points for 8 motorized infantry
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
Points spent: 5

Points remaining: 35

Construction:

35 points to factory (completion)

Points spent: 40

Points remaining: 0

1940

Maintenance:
2 points for 8 motorized infantry
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
Points spent: 5

Points remaining: 39

Training:

39 points for 13 transport

Points spent: 44

Points remaining: 0

1941

Maintenance:
2 points for 8 motorized infantry
.5 point for mechanized infantry
1 point for HQ
1 point for fighter
.25 for pilot
.25 for light cruiser
3.75 for Merchant Fleet
Points spent: 8.5

Points remaining: 59.5

Other:

37.5 points to welfare (level I services to everyone)
30 points to 10 transports

Points spent: 68

Points remaining: 0

New British economy stuff (1936, revised)

Population: 45m (1936), a normal economy, 2% growth, yields 127 points (including 2 from airlines, 28 from shipping)

MILITARY MAINTENANCE

Total: 68 points

BUILDS

NONE

Total: 0 points

Plus pre-paid construction:
4 Tech 6 Battleships attack 5, protection 8, speed 6, range 7 (16" guns) 2 in 1938 1 in 1939 1 in 1940 (Similar to Temeraire/Lion Class), to be known as HMS Lion, Temeraire, Conqueror and Thunder
1 Tech 6 Super battleship attack 6, protection 8, speed 5, range 5, (18" guns), ready 1941 (No relevant class) To be known as HMS Vanguard

DOMESTIC OUTLAYS

5 points per 10 million people= 23 points on welfare, yields a NHS, basic education, income support etc.

Total: 23 points

RESEARCH

None currently undertaken (apart from Frank Whittle’s jet engine which has already been invested in)

FOREIGN AID

36 points to Argentina as part of a foreign aid deal

Total: 36 points

TOTAL=127 POINTS SPENT THIS TURN

(Realised that I have been paying over the odds for cruisers and destroyers/subs in the past (at .5 points apiece instead of .25) so I have refudged my military a bit. See military thread for details.)

EDITED builds now up. A deal has been struck with Argentina which is expected to bring the two countries closer together diplomatically and profit both sides. A large sum of public investment in Argentina has begun and it will take the form of a loan. Britain will donate 36 points now to develop Argentina and in return they will repay it at a rate of 8 points a turn for 6 years from 1937.

Basically Agentina approached me with terms for a loan and I have redone my build plan to allow for this.

Argentina Build 1936 -Revised for Britain's loan

Economy-start of year
11 points base

Military-start of year
1 mechanized corps, 2 reserve infantry corps, 1 reserve garrison unit, 2 fighter units (A6M), 1 bomber unit (Mosquito), 6 pilots, 2 tech level 6 County type light cruisers, 10 tech level 6 destroyers (modernized)

Points available:
11 points base, x2 for National Effort=22 points
14 points from Union (sales from two ships)
36 points from Great Britain (loan)
Total: 72 points

Military spending:
Military maintenance-6.5 points
Upgrade 1 reserve infantry corps to reserve mechanized corps-2 points
1 garrison unit-2 points
20x shipping unit-57 points
Remaining: 3.5 points

Social spending:
Level III services for 10 million-3 points
Remaining: 0.5

Foreign Aid: 0.5 points to Bolivia for social services.

Military- end of year
2 mechanized corps, 1 infantry corps, 2 garrison units, 2 fighter units (A6M), 1 bomber unit (Mosquito), 6 pilots, 2 tech level 6 County type light cruisers, 10 tech level 6 destroyers (modernized), 19 shipping units. Maintanence: 3.5 points, using Galveston's new system

Economy- End of year
11 points base+19 commerce

Can I just clear up how many points Brazil gets per year here? I know I am recieving 10 points from my own country, but is the Union giving me any extra aid?

Can I just clear up how many points Brazil gets per year here? I know I am recieving 10 points from my own country, but is the Union giving me any extra aid?

I believe the Union is giving you six points a year in aid.

Retooled Korean Build-
National Effort- 10 points, plus 10 points from United States plus 17 extra from Union.

OOC: By now, I should be Tech 6, so....

And what of those planes and pilots I trained?

IC:

1936-

devotion of 15 points (8 donated (Union), 7 domestic) to support for basic schools, clinics, high schools, public hospitals, orphans and widows assistance, plus to back public universities and social security type assistance for the elderly and disabled, plus unemployment insurance, food assistance (like food stamps), junior colleges
2 points (allocated from US Donations) for upkeep of ground forces
6 points for a factory (to be done in 6 turns, represents KWP Mutual Aid Fund beginning microloans for small businesses (3 Union pts), and beginnings of government-private sector cooperation (3 domestic pts))

Military-
4 points (allocated from US Aid) for 2 units of Flak Artillery, to be stationed near Seoul, Pyongyang.
11 points to go to the Union to pay for new ships, allocated from foreign sources (represents KWP fundraising drives, creative Rhee Government spending of US Aid)

Ships in Korean Navy service will be gradually disbanded. We are looking for contractors to provide us with new good quality ships for a low price. We are also looking for good airplanes, for a low cost, and help training pilots.

Technically, shouldn't I be at Tech 6 right about now? GB said I'd be Tech 6 in 1936, I say this because the Korea tag on the front page is still red.

Technically, shouldn't I be at Tech 6 right about now? GB said I'd be Tech 6 in 1936, I say this because the Korea tag on the front page is still red.
The front page is updated irregularly. As far as I'm concerned, you're Tech Level 6.

National Effort (Phase 2: Year 4 out of 6)
9 points

1936:
1 maintenance
6 factory(18/18)
1 shipping
1 education

1937: Factory complete: +1 point -due to the insuffeciant population of Algeria of 5.2 million-

1 maintenance (2 if fighter unit purchased)
1 education
7 on shipping (6 if fighter unit purchased)

16 points

3x Pilots at 2 points each (1 pilot for the carrier torpedo bombers I now have, 2 pilots for the 3 fighter units I am purchasing off France if he gives it the OK, so the other 2pilots are provisional at the moment. I take it as given that I already have one unit of pilots still trained and using the old German planes we have from the civil war that, with French help, they will be able to fly the new planes).

7 points to level 2 safety net. (using the six Union points and one Brazilian point)

Remaining 3 points go to military upkeep and if not used there are held in reserve.

The military is:

3 mechanised infantry corps.
5 garrison infantry.
2 regular infantry.
1 armoured corps.

1 Aircraft carrier.
3 Cruisers.
12 Destroyers.

1x fighter unit left over from the civil war.
1x pilots.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Let me know of problems as I am well aware this could be invalid.

The front page is updated irregularly. As far as I'm concerned, you're Tech Level 6.

I will try to update that soon...

16 points

3x Pilots at 2 points each (1 pilot for the carrier torpedo bombers I now have, 2 pilots for the 3 fighter units I am purchasing off France if he gives it the OK, so the other 2pilots are provisional at the moment. I take it as given that I already have one unit of pilots still trained and using the old German planes we have from the civil war that, with French help, they will be able to fly the new planes).

7 points to level 2 safety net. (using the six Union points and one Brazilian point)

Remaining 3 points go to military upkeep and if not used there are held in reserve.

The military is:

3 mechanised infantry corps. (1.5 points if tech level 5, 3 points if tech level 6)
5 garrison infantry. (free if tech level 5, 1.25 points if tech level 6)
2 regular infantry. (free if tech level 5, .5 points if tech level 6)
1 armoured corps. (.5 if tech level 5, 1 point if tech level 6)

1 Aircraft carrier. (.5 points)
3 Cruisers. (if crusiers and destroyers are tech level 5, .25 points, if tech level 6, 1.75 points)
12 Destroyers.

1x fighter unit left over from the civil war. (1 point for tech level 5 or 6)
1x pilots.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Let me know of problems as I am well aware this could be invalid.

so military maintenance is either 3.75 points or 9.5 points or some combination

I have to change my economic plans. Turns out my economy isn't good enough to support level I services.

But I mean, seriously, I have to pay 36 points a year for level 1! Even WITHOUT the army stuff, I can't support it!

Let me know of problems as I am well aware this could be invalid.

Since you asked for it...

I'm assuming that except for the carrier, all of your forces are tech level 5, since you didn't state otherwise.

Unit-upkeep
3 mechanised infantry corps-1.5 points
5 garrison infantry-0
2 regular infantry-0
1 armoured corps-.5
1 Aircraft carrier (tech level 6)-.5
Carrier planes-1
3 Cruisers-.25 (tech level 5 cruisers not listed, so I'm guessing)
12 Destroyers-.25
1x fighter unit left over from the civil war-1
1x pilots-.25

Which adds up to 5.25 maintainence points. So 3 points won't cover it. Also, note that if you've upgraded to tech level 6, this is wrong. If so, tell me and I'll redo it.

EDIT: Er... Galveston Bay beat me to it, I guess.

National Effort (Phase 2: Year 4 out of 6)
9 points

1936:
1 maintenance
6 factory(18/18)
1 shipping
1 education



Second, building factories never costs 18 points. At national effort, you should be paying 36 points. Unless it's possible to build half of a factory, which I don't think it is.

Finally, why spend 1 point on shipping, then seven points? You could get 2 and 2/3 shipping units, but 2/3 of a shipping unit doesn't help you much.

I have to change my economic plans. Turns out my economy isn't good enough to support level I services.

But I mean, seriously, I have to pay 36 points a year for level 1! Even WITHOUT the army stuff, I can't support it!

So seek foreign aid. Other than massive industrialization with no services, that's the only way to effectively do it. And you saw how well massive industrialization with no social services worked out for Sharina.

Since you asked for it...

I'm assuming that except for the carrier, all of your forces are tech level 5, since you didn't state otherwise.

Unit-upkeep
3 mechanised infantry corps-1.5 points
5 garrison infantry-0
2 regular infantry-0
1 armoured corps-.5
1 Aircraft carrier (tech level 6)-.5
Carrier planes-1
3 Cruisers-.25 (tech level 5 cruisers not listed, so I'm guessing)
12 Destroyers-.25
1x fighter unit left over from the civil war-1
1x pilots-.25

Which adds up to 5.25 maintainence points. So 3 points won't cover it. Also, note that if you've upgraded to tech level 6, this is wrong. If so, tell me and I'll redo it.

EDIT: Er... Galveston Bay beat me to it, I guess.

pilots don't cost maintenance by the way... although they will beginning at tech level 7

I have to change my economic plans. Turns out my economy isn't good enough to support level I services.

But I mean, seriously, I have to pay 36 points a year for level 1! Even WITHOUT the army stuff, I can't support it!

you can also chose the option of providing social services to part of your population but not all.

In any case, as stated a number of times, big nations with lots of people and a low level of industrialization at the start of the 20th Century do have serious disadvantages.

pilots don't cost maintenance by the way... although they will beginning at tech level 7

Really? The front page says that they do, and I was going by that. Still, definately good news.

Really? The front page says that they do, and I was going by that. Still, definately good news.

sigh... your right, I must have forgotten to edit that. However until I edit, they don't.

you can also chose the option of providing social services to part of your population but not all.

In any case, as stated a number of times, big nations with lots of people and a low level of industrialization at the start of the 20th Century do have serious disadvantages.

So I could offer to just pay for the social services to the poor? So I'd only pay like 20 points instead of 36?

That's alot, but not as bad...

Population: 10 million
Production Capability: 12 points (10 industry, 2 commerce)

Military Maintenance-3 Points
Shipping Unit x2-6 Points
Level III Education and Social Services-3 Points

For the time being, shipping is more practical than building factories.

Also, there are a couple of things I noticed in the thread. South Africa has 12 base points, not 20. I cut government spending in 1933 or '34, and they got halved.

South Africa's population in 1936 was actually just over ten million (once Southwest Africa is included), rather than the 8.65 million Vas posted a few pages back. If you would rather I use that number instead, just let me know.

Finally, I have a question. On the front page it says Once completed, a factory adds 2 build points a year at peacetime spending levels... What exactly does that mean? The factory just adds those two points, and nothing more, correct? Or is it continuous?

Population: 10 million
Production Capability: 12 points (10 industry, 2 commerce)

Military Maintenance-3 Points
Shipping Unit x2-6 Points
Level III Education and Social Services-3 Points

For the time being, shipping is more practical than building factories.

Also, there are a couple of things I noticed in the thread. South Africa has 12 base points, not 20. I cut government spending in 1933 or '34, and they got halved.

South Africa's population in 1936 was actually just over ten million (once Southwest Africa is included), rather than the 8.65 million Vas posted a few pages back. If you would rather I use that number instead, just let me know.

Finally, I have a question. On the front page it says What exactly does that mean? The factory just adds those two points, and nothing more, correct? Or is it continuous?

in wartime, a factory provides 1 point a turn (2 months), during peacetime, its 2 points a year, or 4 a year during national effort or 1 a year during reduced government spending. So buying a factory isn't really cost effective in the short run, but in the long run does eventually pay for itself.

Commerce (merchant marine and airlines) are immediately cost effective, but have an upper limit (as the world economy will only generate so much commerce).

Thanks. That's what I thought, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to get confirmation.

Could we have a complete list of all civic projects that we can spend points on.

So far all we have is welfare, but I for one would like to start with things like upgrading infrastructure (Roads, rail etc.), Police spending, building ports, telefone networks and etc.

Also how do natrural resources contribute to the points system, how do we improve or start their extraction?

On a slightly unrelated note, do we have to spend points to build military bases and if so how many?

Second, building factories never costs 18 points. At national effort, you should be paying 36 points. Unless it's possible to build half of a factory, which I don't think it is.

Finally, why spend 1 point on shipping, then seven points? You could get 2 and 2/3 shipping units, but 2/3 of a shipping unit doesn't help you much.

I remember somewhere that a factory costs 36 points in peacetime, 18 points on a national effort (mine will end at 1938) and 12 in wartime spending.

on the question of shipping I plan to spend more points on shipping to continue the 2/3 and hopefully build more while I still have the national effort going on..

Edited build:

Foreign Aid:
26 points from Great Britain:
20 points to the welfare system (level I services for the 200,000,000 poorest citizens)
6 points to building 2 transports for international shipping

This is assuming that level 5 transports cost the same as level 6 ones.

I remember somewhere that a factory costs 36 points in peacetime, 18 points on a national effort (mine will end at 1938) and 12 in wartime spending.


Nope. They cost 72 in peacetime, 36 during national effort, and 24 in wartime.

Nope. They cost 72 in peacetime, 36 during national effort, and 24 in wartime.

Yeah. They used to cost what Abassia put, but then the mods realised that would mean factories would pop up all over the place. I wish it were that easy (I'd have like 60 points by now :D), but unfortunatly, it's not that realistic.

Edited build:



This is assuming that level 5 transports cost the same as level 6 ones.

they do... they get more expensive at tech level 7 though

Yeah. They used to cost what Abassia put, but then the mods realised that would mean factories would pop up all over the place. I wish it were that easy (I'd have like 60 points by now :D), but unfortunatly, it's not that realistic.

Oh well :( , I will edit my build:

1936: (National Effort Phase 2: Year 4 out of 6):
1.5 points maintenance For:

1xTech 5 infantry Unit -free (next year will be tech 6)
1xflak ununit -0.25
1xfighter unit 1 (The US has generously offered to upgrade my P26 next year)
1x Pilot -.25

1 point for social programs

0.5 oints to train a Garrison reserve Unit (0.5/3)

2 points for factory construction (14/36)

3 points for shipping (2 shipping units, since 1 year is twelve months so spending 3 points for the first 6 months gives me 1 shipping unit and the second 6 months another unit shipping)
------------------------------------------
1937:2 Shipping complete +2
1 maintenance:

1x Tech 6 Infantry -Free
1x Tech 6 Flak Artillary -0.25
1x Tech 6 Fighter Unit -0.5
1x Pilot -.25

1 continue training of reserve Garrison Unit(1.5/3)

1 social programs

2 Factory construction (16/36)

5 shipping (3 1/3 shipping units)
-------------------------------------------
1938:3 Shipping complete +3
1 maintenance

1.5 continue training Garrison Unit (3/3)

1 social programs

2 Factory construction (18/36)

7 shipping (4 2/3 + 1/3(from last year)= 5 shipping units)
-------------------------------------------
1939: End of National Effort and Cut Spending
4/2=2 points from factories
11 points from shipping (unaffected by government spending I persume, how hard my people work doesn't affect how much my ships can hold)

Factory construction progress: 18/36 --> 36/72

1 maintenence

1 on social programs

6 on shipping

5 on factory construction (41/72)
------------------------------------------------

The French colonial governemnt unviels a plan to begin construction on a major railway network throughout French East Arica next year, conneceting many of the major cities and allowing for greater trade between French East Africa and the world. It is hoped that neighboring nations will allow the French network to connect with theirs.

Marius Moutet, Miister of Overseas France, said "It is with great hopes for the future of Africa nad her people that we put forward this project. We hope that this will help them on their road to independence."

OOC: I'm not goingto screw over Africa like the real French did...

The French colonial governemnt unviels a plan to begin construction on a major railway network throughout French East Arica next year, conneceting many of the major cities and allowing for greater trade between French East Africa and the world. It is hoped that neighboring nations will allow the French network to connect with theirs.

Marius Moutet, Miister of Overseas France, said "It is with great hopes for the future of Africa nad her people that we put forward this project. We hope that this will help them on their road to independence."

OOC: I'm not goingto screw over Africa like the real French did...

please list start and end point cities, and major connections for my sanity

please list start and end point cities, and major connections for my sanity

Will do. I't'll be up by the end of today.

3 points for shipping (2 shipping units, since 1 turn is twelve months so spending 3 points for the first 6 months gives me 1 shipping unit and the second 6 months another unit shipping)


I'm not exactly sure what this means, but 3 points will only get you one shipping unit.

Spending (16 points)


Level 2 Welfare- 7 points



Military Strength And Upkeep

1x HQ (tech 6)
2x Mechanised Infantry Corps (tech 6)
1x Armoured Division (tech 6)
1x Regular Infantry Corps (tech 6)
2x Reserve Infantry Corps
2x Pilot
1x Fighters (French D.25s I believe)
1X Mosquito Bomber Unit

1x Aircraft Carrier
1x Torpedo Bombers
3x Cruisers (tech 6)
8x Destroyers (tech 6)

9 Maintenance Costs


Total= 16 Points + regular growth as no spending is changed.

How large is Bolivia's population at this point? Argentina has diverted some funds (0.5 points) for Bolivian social services. Will this even cover level I?

How large is Bolivia's population at this point? Argentina has diverted some funds (0.5 points) for Bolivian social services. Will this even cover level I?


If that is addressed at my last post, you do know I'm Brazil right?

And if you are addressing that to an NPC, then what are you doing putting money into Bolivia?

If that is addressed at my last post, you do know I'm Brazil right?

And if you are addressing that to an NPC, then what are you doing putting money into Bolivia?

Well, half a point does me no good whatsoever, so I might as well be nice to my allies. And Bolivia is played by Danard

Yes, I am still here, and I am waiting for any kind of war to break out in South America.

Yes, I am still here, and I am waiting for any kind of war to break out in South America.

Well, you could always start one...

But if I start one out of noware, our "mutual protection agreement" would'nt work...

Australian Builds for 1936: 23 points + 6 from US of A = 29

Land Maintenence:
2 pilots--.5 points
4 garrison units--1 point
2 Hawker Hurricane Fighter Units--2 points

Sea Maintenence:
2 Tech 5 Destroyer Units--.5 points
1 Tech 5 Sub--.25 points
4 Tech 5 Light Cruisers--1 point
2 Tech 5 Heavy Cruisers--1 point
2 Tech 6 Battlecruisers--1 point

Builds:
2 Merchant Marines--6 points (+2 next yr to production)
1 B24 Naval Air Unit--4 points
1 pilot--2 points

Upgrades:
3 Tech 5 Motorized Infantry to Tech 6--4.5 points

Domestic Builds:
Level III Safety Net (population of 6.5 million)--3 points

27 points spent. Extra 2 to infastructure--electrification of rural areas

But if I start one out of noware, our "mutual protection agreement" would'nt work...


Secretely provoke an NPC?

Not that I would do that... (Paraguay, cough cough).

But if I start one out of noware, our "mutual protection agreement" would'nt work...

How very true... *evil laugh*

So I take it that Bolivia has no objections to Argentina providing education and basic medical aid?

No objections.

Japanese Military Forces July 1936

Imperial Japanese Navy
Land and land based forces (Home Islands and Formosa)
1 Marine corps (at Taihoku), 2 Navy landbased fighter units (A6M), 5 Navy landbased 2-engined naval air units (Nell), 1 Navy 4-engined naval air flying boat unit (Mavis), 1 Navy 4-engined bomber unit (B17A), 9 pilot units
deployment: 1 fighter, 2 Nells, 1 B17A at Tanian, 1 fighter, 3 Nells at Sapporo, 1 Mavis at Tokyo,

Combined Fleet (Home waters)
Main Body (based at Hiroshima)
Battleships Yamato, Mushashi, Nagato, Mikasa, Fuso, Yamashiro, Hyugan, heavy cruisers Kinguasa, Haguro, Ashigara, Kitsugari, Aoba, light cruiser Naka, Kimu, Naara, 50 modernized tech level 6 destroyers (5 light ship units), 10 tech level 6 destroyers (1 light ship unit)

Striking Force (based at Tokyo)
Carriers Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu, Shokaku, Zuikaku, Hiei, Kongo battleships Kirishima, Haruna, heavy cruisers Nachi, Myoko, Furutaka, Kako, light cruiser Yubari, Jintsu, Sendai, Kiso 10 tech level 6 destroyers (1 light ship unit), 20 modernized tech 6 destroyers (2 light ship units) plus 4 carrier fighters (A6M), 3 carrier torpedo bombers (Kate), 2 carrier dive bombers (Val), 9 carrier pilots

Other forces (based at Nagayo)
50 (5 submarine units) tech level 6 fleet submarines (I class), 40 (2 submarine units) tech level 5 submarines (R class)
40 tech level 5 destroyers (2 light ship units), 8 transport fleet units, 2 amphibious fleet units,
20 shipping units

under construction
5 Antiaircraft cruisers (paid for, available July 1937)

Navy Shopping List: build 4 heavy cruisers, modernize rest of Destroyer fleet and modernize the R class submarines. A pair of battleships (Kii class http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/kii_f.htm ) would be nice, as well as 2 Tahio class carriers to replace the aging Hiei class would be nice as well.

Imperial Japanese Army
2 x 5 point mountain corps (resource hex Hokkaido), 1 x 5 point garrison unit, 1 x 3 point flak unit (Sapporo), 1 x 5 point infantry corps, 1 x 3 point flak unit (Taihoku), 1 HQ, 2 x 9 point infantry corps, 2 x 8 point infantry corps (Nagoya), 4 x 6 point infantry corps (Fukoku), 1 HQ unit, 2 x 12 point armored corps, 2 x 12 point mechanized corps, (Ominato), 1 HQ, 1 x 3 point field artillery unit, 3 x 7 point mechanized corps (Tokyo), 1 x 14 point armored corps (Nagasaki), 4 x 3 point flak units (Hiroshima), 2 x 3 point flak units (Kyoto),

Imperial Japanese Army Air Force
2 x B17C strategic bomber units, 1 x Peggy bomber unit, 1 x fighter unit (Oscar) at Haikoku,

Army shopping list: 2 fighter units (Oscar, 1 bomber unit (Diane), 3 pilots

Alright, does anyone feel like helping me figure out the upkeep costs of this military? I keep getting something different each time.

EDIT: Do Pilots cost anything to maintain? The front page says it does but GB I thought at one point said they didn't....

Railway networks. I've pulled up some maps and have decided to use those, as it will be easier then trying to write it all out...

The plan is tow start at both the major inland cities and the major coastal cities and work outwards and inwardsa at th same time. After the major rail networks connecting all the major cities are comleted, work will begin on the branches. It is hoped that hthis will not only create jobs in the region, but also increase trade and production. It will most likely take five years or more to complete the ambitious project, but the French are prepared to pay for it.

Marutania (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/railnetwork1-Mauritania.png)

Burkina Faso (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/Uv-maprailnetwork.png)

Mali (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/Malirailnetwork.png)

Niger (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/Niger_sm03railnetwork.png)

Guinea (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/GuineaMaprailnetwork.png)

Cote D'Ivorie (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/Cte_dIvoire_railnetwork.png)

Benin (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/Benin_maprailnetwork.png)

Fin.

EDIT: Do Pilots cost anything to maintain? The front page says it does but GB I thought at one point said they didn't....

No. The front page is wrong.

Railway networks. I've pulled up some maps and have decided to use those, as it will be easier then trying to write it all out...

The plan is tow start at both the major inland cities and the major coastal cities and work outwards and inwardsa at th same time. After the major rail networks connecting all the major cities are comleted, work will begin on the branches. It is hoped that hthis will not only create jobs in the region, but also increase trade and production. It will most likely take five years or more to complete the ambitious project, but the French are prepared to pay for it.

Marutania (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/railnetwork1-Mauritania.png)

Burkina Faso (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/Uv-maprailnetwork.png)

Mali (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/Malirailnetwork.png)

Niger (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/Niger_sm03railnetwork.png)

Guinea (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/GuineaMaprailnetwork.png)

Cote D'Ivorie (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/Cte_dIvoire_railnetwork.png)

Benin (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/havoc88/Benin_maprailnetwork.png)

Fin.

hmm, thats a lot of territory, most of it semipopulated and most of it in the Sahara.... figure about 25 points for the whole project (5 points a year will do it). That area will be tech level 3.5 when the project is completed (instead of the current tech level 2)

No. The front page is wrong.
No, pilots cost .25 points to maintain.

Or I've just got a ton of new construction to do.

No, pilots cost .25 points to maintain.

Or I've just got a ton of new construction to do.

Better get cracking on that construction then.

What, now you want to throw down?

Where does it say pilots are free?

What, now you want to throw down?

Where does it say pilots are free?

Hehe. Couple pages back, Galveston said that they are.
pilots don't cost maintenance by the way... although they will beginning at tech level 7

I know, I was suprised too. Didn't stop me from upgrading social spending with the saved points, though.

I'm incensed. I've been wasting points on pilots for four years at least.

Hehe. Couple pages back, Galveston said that they are.


I know, I was suprised too. Didn't stop me from upgrading social spending with the saved points, though.

Pilots are free? WHOOPIE!

Even MORE points to give to social programs for me!

I'm incensed. I've been wasting points on pilots for four years at least.

Ditto. But I'm not incensed.:p

I need to expand South Africa's railroad system. Currently there is a railroad connecting Luderitz to Prieska, and the Cape-to-Cairo railway connects Cape Town and Bloemfontein.

If I were to connect Prieska to Bloemfontein, and then have a railway from Bloemfontein to Pretoria via Johannesburg, and built another line from Johannesburg to Durban, how much would that cost? And would it be worth it to connect my other ports (Port Elizabeth, Mossel Bay, and East London) by rail to Durban?

I need to expand South Africa's railroad system. Currently there is a railroad connecting Luderitz to Prieska, and the Cape-to-Cairo railway connects Cape Town and Bloemfontein.

If I were to connect Prieska to Bloemfontein, and then have a railway from Bloemfontein to Pretoria via Johannesburg, and built another line from Johannesburg to Durban, how much would that cost? And would it be worth it to connect my other ports (Port Elizabeth, Mossel Bay, and East London) by rail to Durban?

6 points (cost of two shipping units) mainly because some rugged hills and dry terrain to deal with and South Africa is pretty big

Weigh in on the pilot maintenace, GB. Most of us have been paying it. I'm pretty ticked if I've just lost a bunch of points.

What is the population of Bolivia?
Still need an answer for this one.

I need to expand South Africa's railroad system. Currently there is a railroad connecting Luderitz to Prieska, and the Cape-to-Cairo railway connects Cape Town and Bloemfontein.
If I were to connect Prieska to Bloemfontein, and then have a railway from Bloemfontein to Pretoria via Johannesburg, and built another line from Johannesburg to Durban, how much would that cost? And would it be worth it to connect my other ports (Port Elizabeth, Mossel Bay, and East London) by rail to Durban?


Uh-oh. With all of this railway discussion, I sense a whole new problem. Are we going to include infrastructure in the points system? X points for Y miles of railway? Not that I wouldn't appriciate this as a logical extension of the points system, but can't we just leave it alone for the sake of simplicity? Or at least come up with some simple solution?

6 points (cost of two shipping units) mainly because some rugged hills and dry terrain to deal with and South Africa is pretty big

I was wondering...

Since I have a helluva lot of railroads over India (the brits covered the country in 'em), do I get any economic benefits?

How large is Bolivia's population at this point?

The population of Bolivia in 1936 is about 2,569,000 according to this website:

http://www.library.uu.nl/wesp/populstat/Americas/boliviac.htm

Still need an answer for this one.
Check the front page.


Uh-oh. With all of this railway discussion, I sense a whole new problem. Are we going to include infrastructure in the points system? X points for Y miles of railway? Not that I wouldn't appriciate this as a logical extension of the points system, but can't we just leave it alone for the sake of simplicity? Or at least come up with some simple solution?
My vote is to let it lie. Who the hell wants to calculate miles of roads and railways?

If not that, maybe come up with something like we did for social spending, with three or four levels of transportation coverage and quality, that contribute to your economy as internal commerce (but would probably also cost maintenance after construction).

We should also start figuring out about natural resources. Otherwise how would the crazy oil sheikdoms with tons of money and no industry ever happen?

Weigh in on the pilot maintenace, GB. Most of us have been paying it. I'm pretty ticked if I've just lost a bunch of points.
bump

Check the front page.



My vote is to let it lie. Who the hell wants to calculate miles of roads and railways?

If not that, maybe come up with something like we did for social spending, with three or four levels of transportation coverage and quality, that contribute to your economy as internal commerce (but would probably also cost maintenance after construction).

We should also start figuring out about natural resources. Otherwise how would the crazy oil sheikdoms with tons of money and no industry ever happen?

My railroads are pretty much my only resource...

My railroads are pretty much my only resource...
And, curiously, India is afflicted to this very day with crushing poverty. Hm.

And, curiously, India is afflicted to this very day with crushing poverty. Hm.

1 billion people and not alot of special natural resources can do that to a nation :p

Also, democratic governments tend to do moves that are stupid to win the vote of the people. That's why China has advanced more, because it's a dictatorship. Of course, now that the people in China have so much more, they want democracy now.

How Ironic.

I was wondering...

Since I have a helluva lot of railroads over India (the brits covered the country in 'em), do I get any economic benefits?

yes, its why India started at tech level 3.5 in 1900 and one of the reasons it is tech level 5 now.

We should also start figuring out about natural resources. Otherwise how would the crazy oil sheikdoms with tons of money and no industry ever happen?
Damn right!

yes, its why India started at tech level 3.5 in 1900 and one of the reasons it is tech level 5 now.

I see said the blind man to the deaf man as he picked up the hammer and saw.

Which reminds me, on my own, how long will it take to get to level 6?

1 billion people and not alot of special natural resources can do that to a nation :p

Also, democratic governments tend to do moves that are stupid to win the vote of the people. That's why China has advanced more, because it's a dictatorship. Of course, now that the people in China have so much more, they want democracy now.

How Ironic.

but India hasn't had a famine since 1944, and that one was because of shipping shortages caused by World War II. China has had several. India is also is developing one of the worlds leading service economies and has worked around its lack of resources in that matter, focusing on its strengths, which include a sizeable well educated workforce that speaks English. In short, India has nothing to be ashamed of.

Something irrelevant.Do pilots cost maintenance or not?

but India hasn't had a famine since 1944, and that one was because of shipping shortages caused by World War II. China has had several. India is also is developing one of the worlds leading service economies and has worked around its lack of resources in that matter, focusing on its strengths, which include a sizeable well educated workforce that speaks English. In short, India has nothing to be ashamed of.

India doesn't have anything to be ashamed of. It just doesn't have the economic drive that a brutal dictatorship has.

I'm incensed. I've been wasting points on pilots for four years at least.

Pilots are free maintenance wise at tech level 6...

my mistake and my apologies... at most you wasted 10 point a year if you had 40 pilots. I will give a combat bump to nations that spend points on pilots versus those that have not (increased training bonus).

So you may choose to spend or not spend points on pilots for good versus excellent pilots.

I can accept that. And I'll take the advantage. Thanks.

tech level 6 maintainence costs
militia (free)
garrison, infantry, fortifications (free)
motorized, artillery units .25 points
mechanized, armored, headquarters, all other ground units units .5 points (headquarters are relatively cheaper at this tech level)

fighters .5 point
transports and bombers .5, 1, or 2 points (single, twin or four engined)
carrier and landbased pilots .25 points (if spent, this gives them a bonus in combat. Not required otherwise)
carrier aircraft .25 points
(essentially you are replacing aircraft routinely, as they don't last long at this tech level)

single cruisers, light ship units , transport and submarine units .25 points
battleships, carriers, amphibious assault fleets .5 point
shipping units are free (they pay for themselves)
ships laid up (placed in reserve) do not cost maintenance, however, to bring them out of reserve are treated as requiring repairs (2 points per unit) in order to bring them back into service.

Major change.... as tech level 6 units have been around a while, they are now cheaper to maintain in real terms. This goes into effect for 1937

Major change.... as tech level 6 units have been around a while, they are now cheaper to maintain in real terms. This goes into effect for 1937
Oh man. That's going to be so scary.

I had such high hopes for peace, and yet, with such an inexpensive army . . .

ooc
as I will be busy a lot until Monday, going ahead and posting US builds for 1937

USA 1937
US Population (1935) 140 million
107 factories (214 production points available (Normal Spending, +2% growth for next year) plus 6 points for the Philippines, 3 points from Canada (year 1 of 3) 34 points for shipping and airlines. 257 points total

Military maintenance 99 points
National Safety net (level 5 spending)(unemployment insurance, food stamps, junior college system) 70 points
National Safety net for Philippines (level 2 spending) 2 points
10 points to Japan (represents US oil and steel exports to Japan)
10 points to Central America (NPC nations, for social service assistance)
191 total points

Under construction (already paid for)
2 Montana class battleships (Montana, Texas, available January 1937)
Panama Canal expansion (year 2 of 4)
Saint Lawrence Seaway project (year 2 of 4)
Intercoastal Waterway project (year 2 of 4)

66 New Construction points available
1 factory for the Philippines (18 points)(finish this year)
Television guided bombs and missiles research 3 points (very secret)
Atomic energy research (powerplant applications) 1 point (very secret)
Multi stage rocket research 1 point
Rural Electrication Project (costs the same as level1 social services for 2 years) 14 points
3 Iowa class battleships (year 1 of 5) 9 points (36 more points needed)
5 Essex class carriers (year 1 of 2) 20 points (20 more points needed)

US MILITARY FORCES 1937
(some cuts were made, and some units placed in reserve)

1937 US Military

US Navy
Carrier Aviation (maintenance 13 points including pilots)
9 tech level 6 fleet carriers: Lexington, Saratoga, Enterprise, Yorktown, Wasp, Hornet, Ranger, Bon Homme Richard, Essex, (all are 100 aircraft, protection 3, speed 6, range 6, Essex class has a protection of 4) 5 Corsairs, 2 Dauntless, 2 Avenger, 9 pilots
2 Corsairs, 5 Avenger torpedo bombers (Navy reserve) 7 Navy reserve carrier pilots

Surface force and other ships (maintenance 21 points)
6 tech level 6 Fast battleships: North Carolina, Washington, South Dakota, Alabama, South Dakota, Indiana, (firepower 5, protection 6, speed 5, range 6)
3 tech 6(modernized) (16 inch) Battleships: Colorado, Maryland, West Virginia (firepower 5, protection 6, speed 3, range 5)

Heavy cruisers
15 tech level 6 Heavy cruisers (all are firepower 1, protection 2, speed 6, range 6)
Chester, Pensacola, Salt Lake City, Houston, Northhampton, Chicago, Augusta, Quincy, Portland, Astoria, Tuscaloosa, Vincennes, Indianapolis, Newport News, Salem, Vincennes, Wichita, Baltimore

Light cruisers
10 Tech level 6 (modernized) Omaha class (firepower 1, protection 2, speed 6, range 6) Detroit, Concord, Richmond, Memphis, Luzon, Mindanao, Paney, Cebu, Samar, Guam
5 tech level 6 Brooklyn class (firepower 1, protection 1, speed 7, range 6) Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Savannah, Nashville, Boise

Antiaircraft cruisers
12 tech level 6 Atlanta class (firepower 1, protection 1, speed 7, range 6), Atlanta, Juneau, San Pedro, San Juan, San Diego, San Antonio, San Pedro, Duluth, Galveston, Los Angeles, Hampton, Biloxi,

Destroyers
150 tech level 6 destroyer escorts, (15 light ships), 120 tech level 6 destroyers (8 light ships)

Submarines
80 tech level 6 submarines (8 submarine units)

Laid up in reserve (all on East Coast)
5 tech 6 (modernized)(14 inch) battleships Tennessee, New Mexico, Mississippi, Idaho, Pennsylvania ( firepower 4, protection 6, speed 3, and range 5)
4 tech level 6 (modernized) light carriers:, Theodore Roosevelt, William McKinley,
George Washington, Abraham Lincoln (4 x 55 aircraft, protection 1, speed 5, range 5, 4 x 55 aircraft, protection 1, speed 6, range 6)
5 Tech level 6 (modernized) Omaha class (firepower 1, protection 2, speed 6, range 6) Omaha, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Marblehead, Trenton
2 amphibious fleets

Transport and shipping
2 amphibious fleets
2 transport units
3 liner units (released back to civilian service)
33 shipping units (15 million tons) commercial fleet, (includes some excess shipping to commerce limit)

US Landbased Naval Aviation (maintenance 18.25 points)
3 PBY, 3 B24 6 pilots plus 3 B24 (navy reserve), 3 pilots (navy reserve)

Marine Corps (maintenance 1 point)
1 Amphibious corps

US Army Air Force (includes reserves) ( 17 maintenance points including pilots)
2 heavy bomber unit (B17F), 1 heavy air transport unit (C54), 1 Air transport unit (DC3), 2 fighter units (P38), 4 fighter units (P47), 4 bomber units (2 B25, 2 B26), 16 pilots (2 in reserve)

US Air National Guard and Army Air Force Reserve (16 points including pilots)
2 heavy bomber units (B17F) 5 bomber units (3 B25, 2 B26), 5 fighter units (P47), 14 pilots

Regular Army (6.5 points)
4 mechanized corps (2 divisions each), 2 armored corps (2 divisions each), 2 amphibious corps (2 divisions each) 1 mountain corps (2 divisions), 1 airborne infantry corps (2 divisions) 3 motorized field artillery units, 3 coast artillery units, 3 flak units

National Guard and Reserve (15 points)
4 headquarters units, 12 mechanized corps (2 divisions each), 5 motorized corps (2 divisions each), 1 garrison unit (Manila), 3 field artillery units, 2 coast defense units (Manila, Pearl Harbor) 14 flak units (Pearl Harbor, Manila, 6 each coast), 4 fortifications (Truk, Manila, Panama, Oahu)

also 1 national airline, 1 international airline, plus 2 pilots (remain unmobilized at this time, but subject to mobilization to the Army if needed)

Total Maintenance 99 points

Pilots are free maintenance wise at tech level 6...

my mistake and my apologies... at most you wasted 10 point a year if you had 40 pilots. I will give a combat bump to nations that spend points on pilots versus those that have not (increased training bonus).

So you may choose to spend or not spend points on pilots for good versus excellent pilots.

I choose to have Excellent Pilots by spending the points I have (I should have 7 pilot units, so thats 7 points a year in maintainence I think). I'm Tech level 5, so I would rather continue the pilot maintainence costs for China if only to drastically improve pilot training.

I choose to have Excellent Pilots by spending the points I have (I should have 7 pilot units, so thats 7 points a year in maintainence I think). I'm Tech level 5, so I would rather continue the pilot maintainence costs for China if only to drastically improve pilot training.


No its 1.75 points as one pilot = 0.25 points in maintenance before GB changed it.

Also GB did you give me a tech level 6 military because I seem to remember you saying something about it in my thread.

I'm not exactly sure what this means, but 3 points will only get you one shipping unit.

From Main post about unit costs:
Shipping unit (represents 500,000 tons of shipping). Used as a place holder for attacks directed at shipping. Can be converted into a transport unit. costs 3 points, build time 6 months.

So: 3 points for one year:

Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
May
Jun
First shipping unit complete
Jul
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
Dec
Second Shipping Unit Complete

Total: 2 shipping units

1936: (National Effort Phase 2: Year 4 out of 6):
1.5 points maintenance For:

1xTech 5 infantry Unit -free (next year will be tech 6)
1xflak ununit -0.25
1xfighter unit 1 (The US has generously offered to upgrade my P26 next year)
1x Pilot -.25

1 point for social programs

0.5 oints to train a Garrison reserve Unit (0.5/3)

2 points for factory construction (14/36)

3 points for shipping (2 shipping units, since 1 year is twelve months so spending 3 points for the first 6 months gives me 1 shipping unit and the second 6 months another unit shipping)
------------------------------------------
1937:2 Shipping complete +2
1 maintenance:

1x Tech 6 Infantry -Free
1x Tech 6 Flak Artillary -0.25
1x Tech 6 Fighter Unit -0.5
1x Pilot -.25

1 continue training of reserve Garrison Unit(1.5/3)

1 social programs

2 Factory construction (16/36)

5 shipping (3 1/3 shipping units)
-------------------------------------------
1938:3 Shipping complete +3
1 maintenance

1.5 continue training Garrison Unit (3/3)

1 social programs

2 Factory construction (18/36)

7 shipping (4 2/3 + 1/3(from last year)= 5 shipping units)
-------------------------------------------
1939: End of National Effort and Cut Spending
4/2=2 points from factories
11 points from shipping (unaffected by government spending I persume, how hard my people work doesn't affect how much my ships can hold)

Factory construction progress: 18/36 --> 36/72

1 maintenence

1 on social programs

6 on shipping

5 on factory construction (41/72)
------------------------------------------------

Does the US pay for my unit upgrades or simply just make them availlable to me and I would have to pay for them?

Ah good, in which case i'll chose to have excellent pilots as i've been spending money for a fairly long time on them.

No its 1.75 points as one pilot = 0.25 points in maintenance before GB changed it.

Also GB did you give me a tech level 6 military because I seem to remember you saying something about it in my thread.

Hmm... interesting.

I'm still Tech Level 5, but I have Tech Level 6 aircraft from France, so how does that work out pilot-wise?

Could you clear that up, GB?

From Main post about unit costs:
Shipping unit (represents 500,000 tons of shipping). Used as a place holder for attacks directed at shipping. Can be converted into a transport unit. costs 3 points, build time 6 months.

So: 3 points for one year:

Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
May
Jun
First shipping unit complete
Jul
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
Dec
Second Shipping Unit Complete

Total: 2 shipping units
That's not how it works. You spend 3 points and get one shipping unit. It takes six months to build a shipping unit. You can build as many in a year as you can afford, but each individual shipping unit costs three points.

The construction time is really only important when you're at war, and it has nothing to do with the cost.

Hmm... interesting.

I'm still Tech Level 5, but I have Tech Level 6 aircraft from France, so how does that work out pilot-wise?

Could you clear that up, GB?

you must spend for tech level 6 pilots to operate tech level 6 airplanes

Does the US pay for my unit upgrades or simply just make them availlable to me and I would have to pay for them?

I paid for them completely, Algeria started with no military at the time of independence

Oh OK, I understand now about shipping,

New build plan:

1936: (National Effort Phase 2: Year 4 out of 6):
1.5 points maintenance For:

1xTech 5 infantry Unit -free (next year will be tech 6)
1xflak ununit -0.25
1xfighter unit -1 (The US has generously offered to upgrade my P26 next year)
1x Pilot -.25

1 point for social programs

0.5 points to train a Garrison reserve Unit (0.5/3)

2 points for factory construction (14/36)

3 points for shipping
------------------------------------------
1937:1 Shipping complete +1
1 maintenance:

1x Tech 6 Infantry -Free
1x Tech 6 Flak Artillary -0.25
1x Tech 6 Fighter Unit -0.5
1x Pilot -.25

1 continue training of reserve Garrison Unit(1.5/3)

1 social programs

1 Factory construction (15/36)

6 shipping Construction
-------------------------------------------
1938:2 Shipping complete +2
1 maintenance

1.5 continue training Garrison Unit (3/3)

1 social programs

3 Factory construction (18/36)

6 shipping Construction
-------------------------------------------
1939: End of National Effort and Cut Spending
4/2=2 points from factories
4 points from shipping (unaffected by government spending I persume)

Factory construction progress: 18/36 --> 36/72

1 maintenence

1 on social programs

3 on shipping

1 on factory construction (37/72)
------------------------------------------------