NationStates Jolt Archive

Cortellen, you can't be making an amphibious landing in Panama if you are a collection of the poorest South American countries. You can't afford the naval capacity to get your troops there, that entire post was godmoding.

One question..Will you update the map?...If you do thanks...If not, that is fine too...

One question..Will you update the map?...If you do thanks...If not, that is fine too...

The Map is updated by Kopparbergs. He is currently away on Holiday right now. Bloody Swedes.

Where's WP?

Right here, but I'm really busy with school right now. Hopefully I don't have to back out of this RP but if that does happen I will first RP some sort of downfall so it goes a little smoother and I will continue to serve as admin/chief moderator/guy who made the first post on this topic.

The Map is updated by Kopparbergs. He is currently away on Holiday right now. Bloody Swedes.

I can take that as an offense too..... ;)

Anyways, thanks. I'll have to make a few posts concerning technological matters in the IC thread. Oh, and Happy B-Day Granate. :D

@ Whytica: I am not backing down. One my mission in the Benelux IS Peace-Keeping and Jared's attack on Armenia isn't. I won't back down just because the world's only Superpower told me to. Invade if you want. But I'll make you bleed so many American Soldiers it won't be funny.

Hey, WP. You might want to throw in a quick post on the collapse of the RSFSR. You may want to follow suit, other Commie haters out there.

Cortellen, you can't be making an amphibious landing in Panama if you are a collection of the poorest South American countries. You can't afford the naval capacity to get your troops there, that entire post was godmoding.

And why is that? If you notice I have a very small fleet. Just over 1,800 men serve as sailors. That gives me a couple of very small, very shitty ships but ships none the less. Personally I think you are just sore that you won't be able to invade Panama all by yourself.

And why is that? If you notice I have a very small fleet. Just over 1,800 men serve as sailors. That gives me a couple of very small, very shitty ships but ships none the less. Personally I think you are just sore that you won't be able to invade Panama all by yourself.

At most you'd have one or two sea-worthy vessels. The rest are coastal patrol craft, not suitable to go long distance.

At most you'd have one or two sea-worthy vessels. The rest are coastal patrol craft, not suitable to go long distance.

Where is Cortellen's post about this? In the IC thread?

Yeah.....um, we should still get the Democratic Alliance thing going. It could be pretty important and stuff with recent events. I still have a few countries that just need to signify that they've actually got their diplomats on the move or in Stockholm, and we're ready to go!

At most you'd have one or two sea-worthy vessels. The rest are coastal patrol craft, not suitable to go long distance.

I don't have to go that far and I can hug the coast the entire time. Its possible, not easy but possible.

Where is Cortellen's post about this? In the IC thread?

Right above Granate's post. Or if you are talking about the landing that is in the Panama thread.

I don't have to go that far and I can hug the coast the entire time. Its possible, not easy but possible.

I think he meant they don't have the fuel supply to make that distance and back. If it's a one-way trip I guess you could make it, otherwise you need a supply ship.

I think he meant they don't have the fuel supply to make that distance and back. If it's a one-way trip I guess you could make it, otherwise you need a supply ship.

So far it is a one way trip. They are all sitting off the coast waiting for a harbor to be set up.

I dont think that would be tactically sound if you want your ships back. You would be better off going via land or by air.

I dont think that would be tactically sound if you want your ships back. You would be better off going via land or by air.

I was thinking the same but I figure I have done it why not keep them there for now? Maybe later they can go back. If not then I guess I will be stuck without a Navy.

How will you defend your own shores from attack?

How will you defend your own shores from attack?

Easy, hope to hell no one attacks me. Thats how.

Easy, hope to hell no one attacks me. Thats how.

Everyone, invade Paramarimbo!

It's more that you can't afford to supply your troops, you don't have the naval capacity to GET supplies to your guys. Your soldiers would either run out of ammo/starve, and I'm planning on telling your guyz to either leave or be tossed out >>.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12479639#post12479639

fall of the RSFSR thread.

I don't have to go that far and I can hug the coast the entire time. Its possible, not easy but possible.

You didnt hug the coast or I would have fired on you. Because if your ships enter my waters uninvited I will fire on them. Granted I may be shooting with sling shots and wet paper but you have ships made of popsicle sticks and chewing gum.

It's more that you can't afford to supply your troops, you don't have the naval capacity to GET supplies to your guys. Your soldiers would either run out of ammo/starve, and I'm planning on telling your guyz to either leave or be tossed out >>.

that's a real possibility. The best alternative is get someone else to help you with it.

that's a real possibility. The best alternative is get someone else to help you with it.

Are you still planning to invade me? o.O

I am banking on the fact that the Panama government can help with that when my troops find them.

The rebels, that is.

that's a real possibility. The best alternative is get someone else to help you with it.

I am banking on the fact that the Panama government can help with that when my troops find them.

Mind if I claim Greece? I would be RP'ing as 'The Grand Duchy of Ganj' as I'm not sure if AnalFissure would be suitable.

Mind if I claim Greece? I would be RP'ing as 'The Grand Duchy of Ganj' as I'm not sure if AnalFissure would be suitable.

I'm not sure if greece is open, I'll check though.

It's open.

Are you still planning to invade me? o.O

invade you? Why should I invade you when someone else can do the job for me?

Just wait a little while, and you'll see :D

invade you? Why should I invade you when someone else can do the job for me?

Just wait a little while, and you'll see :D

Damnit, Daehanjeiguk! Inform me of your scheming!

Jaredcohenia, what was the result of your whole "I'm going to invade greece!" train of thought you seemed to be following for a while?

Jaredcohenia, what was the result of your whole "I'm going to invade greece!" train of thought you seemed to be following for a while?

He dropped that idea and decided to invade Armenia. Which in turn has brought alot of flak to his government.

He dropped that idea and decided to invade Armenia. Which in turn has brought alot of flak to his government.

And some support from nations which I didn't know would support it.

Dropping Greece for a while.

Jaredcohenia, what was the result of your whole "I'm going to invade greece!" train of thought you seemed to be following for a while?

I think that my stubborn RPing of Greece might have been to troublesome for him....

But now, AnalFissure can fill in! So that I can calmly spend my RPing time on other things....

I think that my stubborn RPing of Greece might have been to troublesome for him....

But now, AnalFissure can fill in! So that I can calmly spend my RPing time on other things....

like buying wewapons from us :P

War is good for bussiness
Peace is good for businness

You know what I find funny? Having the ability to stop, if only for a while, the production of M1A1 Abrams and Merkava Tanks. Since they both use the Rheinmetall L44/L55 Smoothbore Cannon. Both are manufactured under license and I can revoke those licenses easily. It would be very mean....

I'm perfectly capable of ignoring the license and producing as many as I want, or alternately, just saying 'F the German gun' and producing the XM-291 ETC cannon instead.

I'm perfectly capable of ignoring the license and producing as many as I want, or alternately, just saying 'F the German gun' and producing the XM-291 ETC cannon instead.

Thats why I said if only for a while. I know you guys would just copy the plans and alter them slightly and call it a different gun.

Thats why I said if only for a while. I know you guys would just copy the plans and alter them slightly and call it a different gun.

Now, my German frienemy, we are faced with a predicament. Shall we work together or still remain stubborn? I would assume that the Luftwaffe would rather be over Germany than over Armenia at the same time as China, no?

Now, my German frienemy, we are faced with a predicament. Shall we work together or still remain stubborn? I would assume that the Luftwaffe would rather be over Germany than over Armenia at the same time as China, no?

It hasn't launched yet. And the strikes wouldn't go to Armenia. They would hit your military installations in the Balkans. You still have around 40 hours to change your stance.

The point remains - do you really want Armenia that badly?

The point remains - do you really want Armenia that badly?

Quite.

And I am adamant on my stance that it is only a Peace-Keeping Operation in the Benelux. I still don't know why you keep calling it France.

It hasn't launched yet. And the strikes wouldn't go to Armenia. They would hit your military installations in the Balkans. You still have around 40 hours to change your stance.

We're doing RL time here? I would rather use a more fluid time and have a discussion about it in the Defensive Alliance thread.

We both have 24 hours(fluid? real? no idea) to evacuate the regions we're in before China intervenes, would you rather your air force over your own skies or over mine?

The point is, would you risk a confrontation with the world's only superpower over Armenia? Cutting off trade with Germany would be a rather large impact on your economy..

We're doing RL time here? I would rather use a more fluid time and have a discussion about it in the Defensive Alliance thread.

We both have 24 hours(fluid? real? no idea) to evacuate the regions we're in before China intervenes, would you rather your air force over your own skies or over mine?

China will have an easier time hitting you then me. So I don't have to worry as much.

Quite.

And I am adamant on my stance that it is only a Peace-Keeping Operation in the Benelux. I still don't know why you keep calling it France.

Historical context - the same reason why I want people to call me Han instead of China or Korea or anything else. Before our dear French player abandoned us, he had the Benelux countries as a part of France - and I have no clue how the history of France plays into this arena, but I'm judging the most recent events to decide how to call countries [with the exception of Panama, because a five country pile-up is just focking ridiculous...]

5 countries? I count 3..

Me, Colombia, Panama. The other guy is unable to get his troops to Panama without godmoding/wanking.

The point is, would you risk a confrontation with the world's only superpower over Armenia? Cutting off trade with Germany would be a rather large impact on your economy..

There are other markets. And should you decide to invade, it won't be like anything you've ever faced before.

We're doing RL time here? I would rather use a more fluid time and have a discussion about it in the Defensive Alliance thread.

We both have 24 hours(fluid? real? no idea) to evacuate the regions we're in before China intervenes, would you rather your air force over your own skies or over mine?

:(

Now that's not right - run away just as I'm coming to break it up? That wastes the whole point of even sending the force to expel you.

edit - I've realized that I've just read that statement wrong... but still...

5 countries? I count 3..

Me, Colombia, Panama. The other guy is unable to get his troops to Panama without godmoding/wanking.

well, it would be 5 with him, but Maldorians has stated interest in attacking Panama - if only in words. that would be four countries in that place.

well, it would be 5 with him, but Maldorians has stated interest in attacking Panama - if only in words. that would be four countries in that place.

Why Panama? Besides the canal? Or is the Canal the only reason?

In my opinion, Panama was a region (after the 'collapse' of that one Union) in turmoil and civil war. It had nothing to really do with the US or anyone else. Then, Russia comes in with communism first. After that, countries (I'll learn all the Central American/South American countries soon) started talking, and things piled up. I think that it's really Russia, America, the Central American Alliance, and the IRR going for it.

Cortellen, although maybe the transport of a few troops on leaky ships is feasibly possible, your numbers won't make a difference. At least not if the other countries get really involved.

Any other countries (like Han) still aren't in it, but are certainly welcome to indulge in the soon-to-be bloodshed. Enjoy!

On another note, all countries that I had political/economic contracts or proposals etc. for some time hanging, excuse me, I'll get to those soon.

And all new European countries that are somewhat or mostly Democratic should look at the Democratic Alliance thread. And all the old countries that haven't done much should probably just RP a small flight into Stockholm or something. Link in my sig, Democratic Alliance for those who don't know....

Jarcedonia, what happened to the Genocidal war you promised us? :sniper:

Wow, I need to shorten my sig....

Does anyone have a link to the NS Draftroom? I am starting to think of designing new military equipment, and I need a few ideas, as well as a few basic facts about planes, tanks, etc. design on NS.

I don't like the place - it's too techy and not enough practical use. hey make great pictures, but I don't care so much for pictures, as long as I know what it can do - which they sometimes do and sometimes don't do. As far as the link, go to any major storefront on NS - they're bound to have a sig link somewhere.

my real reason for making this is to highlight to outstanding transaction that was inadvertently cut when you went away, and seems to have fallen under the radar:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12421527&postcount=27

To conclude it, let's assume that I buy some, since I have a rough familiarity with the equipment in real life.

I don't like the place - it's too techy and not enough practical use. hey make great pictures, but I don't care so much for pictures, as long as I know what it can do - which they sometimes do and sometimes don't do. As far as the link, go to any major storefront on NS - they're bound to have a sig link somewhere.

my real reason for making this is to highlight to outstanding transaction that was inadvertently cut when you went away, and seems to have fallen under the radar:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12421527&postcount=27

To conclude it, let's assume that I buy some, since I have a rough familiarity with the equipment in real life.

Yeah, I was looking for that. If you really need specifications, I can get them, but if it's possible, I'll post a reply with the cost of the subs. Since you know a lot about them, as you said. Is that okay?

I have finally updated my International Relations page, as well as my list of countries. Please check it out to see if your country is there, properly addressed, etc.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12359660&postcount=6

Yeah, I was looking for that. If you really need specifications, I can get them, but if it's possible, I'll post a reply with the cost of the subs. Since you know a lot about them, as you said. Is that okay?

I said it was okay - let's finish this 2 year transaction, which is probably truer to life than necessary :D

I said it was okay - let's finish this 2 year transaction, which is probably truer to life than necessary :D

Ok, I've posted a reply.

You know what I find funny? Having the ability to stop, if only for a while, the production of M1A1 Abrams and Merkava Tanks. Since they both use the Rheinmetall L44/L55 Smoothbore Cannon. Both are manufactured under license and I can revoke those licenses easily. It would be very mean....

Uh, the Merkava doesnt use an L44 or derivative smoothbore weapon, it uses an indigenous IAI designed and manufactured weapon. And the US can ignore you, its not as if you can do anything to significantly harm them

Jarcedonia, what happened to the Genocidal war you promised us? :sniper:

I never promised a genocidal war, and it won't happen.

And it might happen. I found a loophole in Chinese demands. ;)

There are other markets. And should you decide to invade, it won't be like anything you've ever faced before.

If you want markets, my African nation always has them...and cheap oil :P

If you want markets, my African nation always has them...and cheap oil :P

I'll pay you a better price than Germany will for them oils.

I'll pay you a better price than Germany will for them oils.

I have a little over 3 million barrels per day to export.

3 MILLION BBL/DAY

So, in case anyone has unrealistic production/import/consumption stats, I'd be willing to sell...

Does anyone have a link to the NS Draftroom? I am starting to think of designing new military equipment, and I need a few ideas, as well as a few basic facts about planes, tanks, etc. design on NS.

Linky
http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_NS_Draftroom/index.php?act=idx

Just be prepared to have what you do criticized...most people who cant handle being told what they are doing wrong dont like the draftroom, they want something to be the way they think it is and not the way physics demands it should be.

For the tech of level of this RP you should find very sound advice.
Just dont have thin skin about your ideas...also let people know if you dont have much actual knowledge of a subject, as that tends to make them less abrasive with comments.

BY THE WAY

Am I to understand it is the year 2012?

I never promised a genocidal war, and it won't happen.

And it might happen. I found a loophole in Chinese demands. ;)

Meh, i'm pretty sure that's what your post said back when your forces were on the borders :p

Oh well, fun while it lasted.

I have a little over 3 million barrels per day to export.

3 MILLION BBL/DAY

So, in case anyone has unrealistic production/import/consumption stats, I'd be willing to sell...

I've already got 1.75 million bbl/day going to the CCPS. I can surely send a bunch more to whoever needs it (and besides, if the CCPS isn't active around here anymore, then I have LOADS more to send).

And for cheap prices! (realistic, of course).

I've already got 1.75 million bbl/day going to the CCPS. I can surely send a bunch more to whoever needs it (and besides, if the CCPS isn't active around here anymore, then I have LOADS more to send).

And for cheap prices! (realistic, of course).

So how much oil are you producing /day? With what you're sending to the CCPS included?

It's just that when casually surfing the SYAE factbooks, I sometimes found that people have their production and import numbers add up to a number way below their consumption stats, which in RL would signify as quite a problem....

When I get around to it, I'm going to force Canada to become part of the Union, then have a civil war. But that would require me to actually post these things.

Well, I am producing a little over 3 million barrels a day. So I can help the uS out...a bit anyway...greedy oil drinking slobs.

When I get around to it, I'm going to force Canada to become part of the Union, then have a civil war. But that would require me to actually post these things.

lol. 1337 Post.

So how much oil are you producing /day? With what you're sending to the CCPS included?

It's just that when casually surfing the SYAE factbooks, I sometimes found that people have their production and import numbers add up to a number way below their consumption stats, which in RL would signify as quite a problem....

My solution for that is that i ban regualr petrol engine for civilian use, create government grants for in expensive diesel autos, and supplement the petrol with biodiesel. Instant reduction in consumption...well not instant...but it helps. As a large section of my popualce is without autos anyway...the switch to diesel isnt as hard as say the US or Western Europe.

------
Why, the US has some other Civil technology I would be interested in investing in, for conservation sake. So I will be posting.

My solution for that is that i ban regualr petrol engine for civilian use, create government grants for in expensive diesel autos, and supplement the petrol with biodiesel. Instant reduction in consumption...well not instant...but it helps. As a large section of my popualce is without autos anyway...the switch to diesel isnt as hard as say the US or Western Europe.

------
Why, the US has some other Civil technology I would be interested in investing in, for conservation sake. So I will be posting.

My country farts in your general direction!

Jk, but oil is good for us all...of course...

Well, since I have a rather larger none OPEC oil reserve(dont know about the blocks of coutries) and produce about 6-7th in the world if I can cut my production in half, that is that much more Oil I can sell, and it isnt as if there isnt a demand. Or I can reserve it strategically for a couple of years and crash the market as a WED. Pushing oil below so 30$ a barrel would destroy oil dependent economies...since i am not as oil dependent as say Suadi, or Iraq, or Norway that is a viable option. Also it means if I select a particular nation to take off the market..like China or the US and sell all my Oil to them in one swoop at a significantly reduced price...they arent buying anyone elses oil.

Well, since I have a rather larger none OPEC oil reserve(dont know about the blocks of coutries) and produce about 6-7th in the world if I can cut my production in half, that is that much more Oil I can sell, and it isnt as if there isnt a demand. Or I can reserve it strategically for a couple of years and crash the market as a WED. Pushing oil below so 30$ a barrel would destroy oil dependent economies...since i am not as oil dependent as say Suadi, or Iraq, or Norway that is a viable option. Also it means if I select a particular nation to take off the market..like China or the US and sell all my Oil to them in one swoop at a significantly reduced price...they arent buying anyone elses oil.

Yes! Please sell to the US and leave more oil-dependant China to me!

I would like Ethiopia, Somilia, kenya, and Sudan if it's not to much please.

Also I would like to name it The East Afrcian Confederation.

I would like Ethiopia, Somilia, kenya, and Sudan if it's not to much please.

Ooh, African neighbors!!

Note: Ok, I'm off the deep end tonight with this macro paper...

I would like Ethiopia, Somilia, kenya, and Sudan if it's not to much please.

Also I would like to name it The East Afrcian Confederation.

Sudan is currently being invaded. Sounless you want only Ethiopia, Somalia, and Kenya there yours.

Well, since I have a rather larger none OPEC oil reserve(dont know about the blocks of coutries) and produce about 6-7th in the world if I can cut my production in half, that is that much more Oil I can sell, and it isnt as if there isnt a demand. Or I can reserve it strategically for a couple of years and crash the market as a WED. Pushing oil below so 30$ a barrel would destroy oil dependent economies...since i am not as oil dependent as say Suadi, or Iraq, or Norway that is a viable option. Also it means if I select a particular nation to take off the market..like China or the US and sell all my Oil to them in one swoop at a significantly reduced price...they arent buying anyone elses oil.

I will happen to be independent of oil by 2020. I'll look into decreasing my production rates when I hit 50 billion barrels of reserve oil.

Sudan is currently being invaded. Sounless you want only Ethiopia, Somalia, and Kenya there yours.

Ok then just Ethiopia, Somalia, and Kenya.

So...... Who needs an AnalFissure, erm Greece? I've got guns and sheit.

LoL@ Petroleum Oil

Mary Jane Provided fuel FTW!

Despite how inefficient in comparison to Gasoline it may be.

My oil supply has been supplied mostly by UASR, but I don't think that we ever concluded what the deal meant. Nonetheless, I am open to expanding my oil retinue. Additionally, I have some suspect oil fields in North Korea and under the Spratly Islands, so I should be able to supplement my fuel requirements. Although I promise to start working on the International Fusion Project very very very soon.

hmm

right now, 750k armenians are homeless

move them to turkey for 'temporary' housing

+750k

I'll work on the international fusion project under the condition there are no commies in the fusion project >>.

OOC: Trust me Dae, by the time you notice it'll be too late.

oocly, I'll love an extension of the conflict :D

icly, my country will hate you to the dust beneath your feet.


Since you are apt to notice that I did not specify what you could do with the people; if you do something with them, I will issue another ultimatum more strict than the last one.

hmm

right now, 750k armenians are homeless

move them to turkey for 'temporary' housing

+750kSo hit up the Balkans in the IC thread about transporting the homeless, and then, own them? Cause I can whack home less, off home less, if I like you guys enough I may whack them off too. =]

oocly, I'll love an extension of the conflict :D

icly, my country will hate you to the dust beneath your feet.

icly, you don't want to mess with america

sicly, armenians will be in turkey

oocly, there will be no continuation of the conflict

icly, you don't want to mess with america

sicly, armenians will be in turkey

oocly, there will be no continuation of the conflict

you can't hide moving 750,000 people from satellites. The volume is impossible to hide, and it wouldn't happen in one day.

you can't hide moving 750,000 people from satellites. The volume is impossible to hide, and it wouldn't happen in one day.

Exactly. I only need to sneak in around 500k a month, shouldn't be a problem.

I have a strong feeling if I mention what I'm doing in the OOC, you'll use it in the IC.

hmm

right now, 750k armenians are homeless

move them to turkey for 'temporary' housing

+750k


Could you expell them from Armenia (into nearby countries) instead? Keep moving them into your other territories and I'll be forced to declare that the Balkan Union is secretly begining a Armenian Holocaust.

And it is impossible to hide anything on such a scale. Purely, simply impossible. We won't need satellites to find that out; word of the mouth is a powerful tool.

Exactly. I only need to sneak in around 500k a month, shouldn't be a problem.

I have a strong feeling if I mention what I'm doing in the OOC, you'll use it in the IC.


Don't expect anyone to accept that you've managed to steal an entire nation away from its homeland without actually RPing anything beyong a couple of sentences OOCly. As far as I am concerned right now, all Armenians remain in Armenia with the exception of some refugees fleeing with the Kiwiland Army.

He's said multiple times that he hasn't started moving them yet.

And keep in mind my stance towards the Balkan Union.

Could you expell them from Armenia (into nearby countries) instead? Keep moving them into your other territories and I'll be forced to declare that the Balkan Union is secretly begining a Armenian Holocaust.

And it is impossible to hide anything on such a scale. Purely, simply impossible. We won't need satellites to find that out; word of the mouth is a powerful tool.

What I don't get is why hiding the whole thing is so important. I mean, even if it's discovered by satellites and Dae sets up another ultimatum, you can either ignore it, or the Armenian people will already be where you want them to be.

Futuris, Svalbard, Post, Now, THE!!!
What I meant was, Post on the svalbard thread already.

Futuris, Svalbard, Post, Now, THE!!!
What I meant was, Post on the svalbard thread already.

Oh right, sorry. I'll be gone for most of the day though.

@Granate: You were going to do something in the Svalbard thread too?

Don't expect anyone to accept that you've managed to steal an entire nation away from its homeland without actually RPing anything beyong a couple of sentences OOCly. As far as I am concerned right now, all Armenians remain in Armenia with the exception of some refugees fleeing with the Kiwiland Army.

Shit, can you read? I've stated it hasn't began yet.

Word of mouth? How are you going to hear about it word of mouth? My plan is genius, really.

Shit, can you read? I've stated it hasn't began yet.

Word of mouth? How are you going to hear about it word of mouth? My plan is genius, really.

Right and I am Albert Einstein.

Jaredcohenia, you won't be making 3 million people disappear without any noticing. The whole satellite, radio, television and internet thing makes it pretty difficult.

Right and I am Albert Einstein.

Hi, Albert.

Jaredcohenia, you won't be making 3 million people disappear without any noticing. The whole satellite, radio, television and internet thing makes it pretty difficult.

As stated NUMEROUS times, I won't be making all 3 million people disappear without noticing. I noted in my IC posts about satellite, which goes with radio and television.

The way I plan on doing it would be hard to follow and hard to notice, rather. If you have AIM/MSN, I'll alert whoever wants to know.

I've been doing some more research into the Leopard 2. It appears that in the 2A6 Model the RHAe was around 920 - 940 on the turret, 620 on the Glacis, and 620 on the Lower Front Hull. Thats just Kinetic Energy. It about double that for Chemical Energy on the turret with the others receiving just about 130 RHAe increase.

This is useful in helping me figure out what RHAe the Leopard 3 will have. Most likely atleast 1.5 times that of the Leopard 2A6, possibly more.

Shit, can you read? I've stated it hasn't began yet.

Word of mouth? How are you going to hear about it word of mouth? My plan is genius, really.

If it's any genius as I perceive it to be, you'll replace the Armenians with a willing host family to take over their activities, and shuttle the "refugees" to Turkey and left the "residents" in place. If it's any more elaborate than that, then it's not going to work.

And even that will not work, because any shuttling of people will take a long time. Imaging what happens during natural disasters and the governments issues mandatory evacuations - not everyone follows on them, even when prompted by local authorities. Unless you can mind-control every single Armenian - in which case, why bother moving the Armenians? - they won't move out unnoticeably.

And I don't expect you to post what you're going to do in your sic posts, because you post anything that is ic, I won't even need satellites to tell me what's going on - and anything that's ooc is beyond what happens in the ic/sic realm. Besides, I don't think that I've discussed much of IC action - partially because any sensible person could at least try to guess what I was going to do, and because any insensible person wouldn't have a clue what I was going to do. So I would appreciate the reciprocity of not divulging every single clue about what you're going to do because you've probably just corrupted the majority of most people's future ic posts - all on your own volition. I've tried to keep out the ooc knowledge, but you know - it's hard to say that you don't know something when you really do.


Oh, and I'm still sending the neutral observer to Armenia, just as I would do if Germany and the UK relent in their actions in France. So if he notices anything out of the ordinary, he'll let me know.

Animarnia Aerospace Engineering Today unvailed the new QuickSilver Beyond Visual Range sea skimming Anti-shipping missile.



Please Address all orders to Mr Cierian McLoachan, Head of Sales Division

I'd like to see the development on this missile. If it holds up, you might have some sales.

Oh, and I'm still sending the neutral observer to Armenia, just as I would do if Germany and the UK relent in their actions in France. So if he notices anything out of the ordinary, he'll let me know.

Maryan has been away for quite some time. You may want to be lenient with him. Me on the other hand, bring it on.

He's said multiple times that he hasn't started moving them yet.

And keep in mind my stance towards the Balkan Union.

I've kept that in mind - the Balkan Union may be more "anti-communist" but my country tries to avoid the distinction of socio-economic policies when describing its political system. If America wants to enter on the side of the Balkan Union, they are welcome to do so, just as I am welcome to defend the sovereignty of countries on the other side of the world, however trivial and unimportant they may seem to be.

Maryan has been away for quite some time. You may want to be lenient with him. Me on the other hand, bring it on.

I'll bring it - along with a side order of sixty thousand spring rolls to be delivered at Brandenburg Gate :D

I'll bring it - along with a side order of sixty thousand spring rolls to be delivered at Brandenburg Gate :D

Oh you think you are going to get that far? I think not.

Oh you think you are going to get that far? I think not.

I never said that I would be coming...

I never said that I would be coming...

Then whats with the post about the Han Expedition to France?

Then whats with the post about the Han Expedition to France?

It's preparation :D but I haven't ordered them to leave yet - technically, we're not at war.

And if all goes well, we won't go to war.

It's preparation :D but I haven't ordered them to leave yet - technically, we're not at war.

And if all goes well, we won't go to war.

If by all goes well, you mean me leaving the Benelux. Then no it won't all go well.

If by all goes well, you mean me leaving the Benelux. Then no it won't all go well.

Then that will be even better

If it's any genius as I perceive it to be, you'll replace the Armenians with a willing host family to take over their activities, and shuttle the "refugees" to Turkey and left the "residents" in place. If it's any more elaborate than that, then it's not going to work.

Close, but no cigar. *smokes it anyways*

If you'll let my nation take over Armenia, I can give you air bases. :P

Shit, can you read? I've stated it hasn't began yet.

Word of mouth? How are you going to hear about it word of mouth? My plan is genius, really.

Good if it hasn't started. Just make sure you actually post ICly about doing it, and don't expect it to be all finished within the day.

And yes you can't make 1/3 of a nation disappear without other members of the said nation wondering where all their friends/relatives/neighbours are.

Good if it hasn't started. Just make sure you actually post ICly about doing it, and don't expect it to be all finished within the day.

And yes you can't make 1/3 of a nation disappear without other members of the said nation wondering where all their friends/relatives/neighbours are.

It will be IC for part of it, SIC for other parts. Won't be done (AS STATED FOR THE BILLIONTH TIME) in a day.

And yes, random people will be taken. I'll take a mother, neglecting her children and husband. I'm that dumb.

It will be IC for part of it, SIC for other parts. Won't be done (AS STATED FOR THE BILLIONTH TIME) in a day.

And yes, random people will be taken. I'll take a mother, neglecting her children and husband. I'm that dumb.

Okay... You were just ambiguous because you said you can alert people through MSN/AIM for them to know.

Okay... You were just ambiguous because you said you can alert people through MSN/AIM for them to know.

I might, already let a few people know. :P

This is fucking ridiculous. Nations producing advanced anti-ship missiles that in the RL world have NO experience making them, and nations buying 6,000 of them that have no business buying half that many.

Someone HAS to define the tech limits or else I quit. This is ridiculous.

Agreed six thousand missiles in a single purchase is fecking massive and completely beyond any real life scope in arms purchases. An adavanced anti-shipping missile isnt the same as purchasing some cheap RPGs. I dont believe the current united states navy is in posession of 6000 AShM.

This is fucking ridiculous. Nations producing advanced anti-ship missiles that in the RL world have NO experience making them, and nations buying 6,000 of them that have no business buying half that many.

Someone HAS to define the tech limits or else I quit. This is ridiculous.

Please describe how America became an Empire in merely 2 years with a democratic congress and a population base that isn't particularly happy with the controls of the Bush admin that have been implement, ie, patriot act. You haven't RPed general dissent in America, which would rage, at all.
And describe how you already have the Arleigh Burke's successor apparently in full-line production (one of those threads had it) and deployed.
Then we can proceed.
After all, if America can be an Empire, Animaria and the SCE can be tech powers.

Granted, I can't see how Animaria can develop all these things so fast for being a considerably poor union (smile, haha! jk), but one or two I could potentially see. Me, I'm just content buying surplus off of others, but in order to compete against the African race for tech, i've had to utilize the military budget that I left fairly intact in '08 and transfered all that surplus to '09. Granted, I won't be having much come out-Algeria's military is stock full of a lot of old Soviet stuff, and it's pretty nice besides a navy (which is what I'm focusing on.)

However, the "American Empire" idea is quite a bit far-fetched. If you can use alternate history, so can Animaria. And me.

Oh, btw, I'll be out from tomorrow to noon Sunday. Just an FYI, don't nuke Algeria or Nigeria in the process.

Please describe how America became an Empire in merely 2 years with a democratic congress and a population base that isn't particularly happy with the controls of the Bush admin that have been implement, ie, patriot act. You haven't RPed general dissent in America, which would rage, at all.
And describe how you already have the Arleigh Burke's successor apparently in full-line production (one of those threads had it) and deployed.
Then we can proceed.
After all, if America can be an Empire, Animaria and the SCE can be tech powers.

Granted, I can't see how Animaria can develop all these things so fast for being a considerably poor union (smile, haha! jk), but one or two I could potentially see. Me, I'm just content buying surplus off of others, but in order to compete against the African race for tech, i've had to utilize the military budget that I left fairly intact in '08 and transfered all that surplus to '09. Granted, I won't be having much come out-Algeria's military is stock full of a lot of old Soviet stuff, and it's pretty nice besides a navy (which is what I'm focusing on.)

However, the "American Empire" idea is quite a bit far-fetched. If you can use alternate history, so can Animaria. And me.

Oh, btw, I'll be out from tomorrow to noon Sunday. Just an FYI, don't nuke Algeria or Nigeria in the process.

To AB:
not really that fast; I'm going by Dae's calander so its 2012 for us. and this thing has been in development since way back when I announced the new tank rounds and missiles being made back in 08? so thats 4 years. plus the defence budget has been going up with the economic growth giving us surpless funds for well paid research and oh don't forget the money and people the Han empire is plowing into us plus we've been building the soviet stuff for decades so we know HOW to build them. America is not the only superpower uber tech nation anymore; the world is a changing place and I've put work into this. and as stated if America can use the Alt history so can we anything less is purely hypercritical, too keep America as the top dog.

Though most of the government Research budget right now is going into the Iron Kong; the Cream is being skimed off the top for Arms purchaes though we're paying for those as they are delivered so it dosn't take a huge toil on our budget; our deals have been very pricisly worded for that purpose

Funding from Oil Revenue to the UK
Funding from Han
Funding from Private Corperations
Funding from Economic Boom surplus.

Captalism in action. :) America's mindset taken to its logical conclusion

To everyone else:
As for the order...6000 is a litttle...excesive; but if he wants to wait some years as we can only produce maybe 300 odd of these a year at max capcity (150 under nomal capacity) and has got the money to pay; who am I to turn him away; if he wants his missiles faster I can forward LPD so the missiles are built in his factories and that will be added into my IC response. Saying his country "has no bussiness" buying them, so freaking what? did the RL US and UK have any bussiness being in Iraq? no but we're there shit happens; did terrorists have any bussiness slaming airliners into buildings? no but shit happens and the world changed overnight.

Honestly I find the hypocracy annoying; SYAE seems to want a changing, evoloving world like a what if and I think a number of the players here were attracted to SYAE because it promises that; but then when its convinient to keep what other players consider "lesser countries" down adire strictly to reality but only when its convinient for those owning the bigger countries.

in fact if we go back to RL for a moment whens the last time America invented something?. Most of the inventions that will shape the 21st centuary are coming from Russia of all places (who are exceling in new medical technolgy); and Japan, and Sweden not the United States

if the people who play the bigger countries want to stay top of the food chain how about you do something about it like say INVENT something for crying out loud isntead of crying foul and acting like a 5 year old with a footbal - "its my ball and if I can't score all the goals I'm not playing anymore" or putting usless limitaions on 'lesser nations' that stifile a changing evoloving world that SYAE was promised to be; you already have a huge head start on us its not our fault that we're catching up while your flaiing your arms around acting like a headless chicken; you want to stay ahead do something to stay ahead; its not our responsability to keep you ahead its yours.

This is fucking ridiculous. Nations producing advanced anti-ship missiles that in the RL world have NO experience making them, and nations buying 6,000 of them that have no business buying half that many.

Someone HAS to define the tech limits or else I quit. This is ridiculous.

What's wrong with me buying ASM? I'm shifting my military towards a naval focus, and I don't see why I shouldn't be able to defend my ships. I decide what my nation's business is, thank you very much.

On the other hand, now that you mentioned it I agree that making an advanced missile out of nowhere is farfetched (didn't realise what Animarnia controlled...) developing weapons requires much more than just time, and even money can't always buy everything. I think we need to come up with a stricter set of rules on tech development before more of this happens.



Agreed six thousand missiles in a single purchase is fecking massive and completely beyond any real life scope in arms purchases. An adavanced anti-shipping missile isnt the same as purchasing some cheap RPGs. I dont believe the current united states navy is in posession of 6000 AShM.

Boeing made at least 7000 Harpoons.

Boeing made at least 7000 Harpoons.
Over the course of a time from 1977 to 2004. Thats over 27 years. IE. You aren't getting 6,000 ASM in a matter of 4 or 5 years. Expect atleast 20 or so.

Boeing made at least 7000 Harpoons.

Wow, 7000 missiles over 20+ years(Introduced in 1977, not Deployed Until 1985..before you were Born I would imagine) thanks again for making my point.
Also the development of the Harpoon began in 1965...four years later...IT WAS STILL BEING DEVELOPED, it hadnt even had a test flight. So from intial development to deployment was 20 years.
Then it took another 22years to reach the production numbers you suggest for your purchase in one year by no less then 27 nations.
Also with that quote you ignore the fact that "Harpoon" is not one single missile it is AGM-84D Harpoon AGM-84E SLAM, AGM-84H SLAM ER, Harpoon Block II, RGM-84D Harpoon, to name the common deployments.



Would it be cost prohibitive to procure and store 6000 AShM...yes, in a single year of course only a total idiot would think otherwise...and only someone twisting reality to suit their own bullshit would claim otherwise.


The Harpoon missile is the world's most successful anti-ship missile and is in service with the armed forces of 27 countries. 7000 missiles over 20+ years spread across 27 nations... I have nothing better to do.
7000 Missiles...we'll say the US got 75%

Thats 5250 missiles, with attrition and replacements(explosives go bad, as does propellant, not to mention the missile's body) so we assume an even spread over 22years...238 missiles a year.
That is assuming that out of 27 nations the US took 75% of the stock.

Now we can go through all the House of Commons documents, and Congressional oversight of spending documents if you really want to push this bullshit through as being realistic or you can put away your one sentence from the Boeing Website.

But, no. The US Navy and Air Force do not, nor have they ever operated...or will ever operate anywhere near 6000 of any single type of AShM.
The Standard MIssile was utilized during Operation Praying Mantis and an AShM so if they have 6000 harpoons laying around what is the point of that?


Australia -
Canada -
Chile -
Denmark -
Egypt -
Netherlands -
Oman -
Pakistan -
Portugal -
Singapore -
South Korea -
Spain -
Taiwan -
United Arab Emirates -
United Kingdom -
United States of America -
You want to find the other countries good luck because as far as Boeing Employees are concerned that can not be disclosed.
Contact:
Marguerite Ozburn
Global Strike Systems
The Boeing Company
marguerite.a.ozburn@boeing.com

I know because I called and spoke to Mrs Ozburn. I will note she was also not pleased with the question, and really wanted to know who I was and why I wanted to know what I wanted to know. So if you planning on asking questions of Boeing I will happy to provide her phone number but I am not posting it.



If this is going to be a wank fest, say so, that way I can keep up. If it is to be realistic...then be realistic and dont try to take shit out of context and out of reality to support your wankery and claim bullshit on what someone else does.

Development took 20 years, and it took 22 years to hit 7000 missiles.
Enough said on this matter...the 4 year development and the procurement of 6000 are godmoding wankery.

Excuse me, but I don't recall requesting delivery within one year. In fact I didn't even specify a timeframe. Who cares about how long it took to deliver them in real life? I ain't freaking doing it in one year! Just because I can FORSEE that I'll need maybe up to 6000 missiles DOESN'T MEAN I WANT THEM IN ONE YEAR! You think I'd rather place an order for more missiles every other day than simply ordering them in one go? Don't shove your own bullshit down my throat just because you can't be bothered reading my post.

And please don't blame me for product development, because guess what? *shock* *shock* I DIDN'T MAKE THE MISSILE!! Why the fuck else would I be buying, BUYING, as in PAYING MONEY TO ANIMARNIA, if I made them myself? I don't give a damn how long it took to develop the Harpoon, how long it took before test flight, how long anything. I'm not a freaking mod, it isn't my responsibilty to read every IC post to check weapon development, and I sure as hell don't plan on walk around screaming about development times everytime someone made a new weapon.

For cry out loud, if you have a problem with me, at least make sure its something that exists outside of your head before calling names.

Excuse me, but I don't recall requesting delivery within one year. In fact I didn't even specify a timeframe. Who cares about how long it took to deliver them in real life? I ain't freaking doing it in one year! Just because I can FORSEE that I'll need maybe up to 6000 missiles DOESN'T MEAN I WANT THEM IN ONE YEAR! You think I'd rather place an order for more missiles every other day than simply ordering them in one go? Don't shove your own bullshit down my throat just because you can't be bothered reading my post.

And please don't blame me for product development, because guess what? *shock* *shock* I DIDN'T MAKE THE MISSILE!! Why the fuck else would I be buying, BUYING, as in PAYING MONEY TO ANIMARNIA, if I made them myself? I don't give a damn how long it took to develop the Harpoon, how long it took before test flight, how long anything. I'm not a freaking mod, it isn't my responsibilty to read every IC post to check weapon development, and I sure as hell don't plan on walk around screaming about development times everytime someone made a new weapon.

For cry out loud, if you have a problem with me, at least make sure its something that exists outside of your head before calling names.

Settle the fuck down. Both of you are acting like Children. Here's my ruling, which can be over-ruled by West Pacific.

In truth Animarnia needs to develope the missle more atleast another 4 or 5 years. And Kiwiland can buy 6,000 of these Missles, but by the time the 6000th is develivered a good deal of the others will be useless, even with proper service. So you're looking at anywhere from 4,700 to 5,400 Missles by the time you've received the final missle.

That is my judgement and it will be stay that way unless West Pacific disagrees or alters it.

Settle the fuck down. Both of you are acting like Children. Here's my ruling, which can be over-ruled by West Pacific.

In truth Animarnia needs to develope the missle more atleast another 4 or 5 years. And Kiwiland can buy 6,000 of these Missles, but by the time the 6000th is develivered a good deal of the others will be useless, even with proper service. So you're looking at anywhere from 4,700 to 5,400 Missles by the time you've received the final missle.

That is my judgement and it will be stay that way unless West Pacific disagrees or alters it.

Sorry, but I hated it when people attack me over things I didn't do/say.

And really the number isn't an issue, since most likely I'll run into naval engagements long before the transactions are completed, and no doubt missiles will feature. Meaning I'd be constantly usng most of the delivered missiles up in various engagements long before the whole transaction could be completed anyway.

Hence the whole point of ordering a bunch of missiles in the first place.

Sorry, but I hated it when people attack me over things I didn't do/say.

And really the number isn't an issue, since most likely I'll run into naval engagements long before the transactions are completed, and no doubt missiles will feature. Meaning I'd be constantly usng most of the delivered missiles up in various engagements long before the whole transaction could be completed anyway.

Hence the whole point of ordering a bunch of missiles in the first place.

Well you've got 4 or 5 years of waiting until you see the first Missle.

Well you've got 4 or 5 years of waiting until you see the first Missle.


Yeah, didn't realise the details.... But well, I think I'd rather start production on the Type 90 then. :p

Yeah, didn't realise the details.... But well, I think I'd rather start production on the Type 90 then. :p

If you want to produce a Below Average Modern Main-Battle Tank...

If you want to produce a Below Average Modern Main-Battle Tank...

Meh, the type 90 is a nice domestic product :p

(I was talking about the Type 90 antiship missile though)

But speaking of which I guess it's about time I start on TX-X

Linky
http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_NS_Draftroom/index.php?act=idx

Just be prepared to have what you do criticized...most people who cant handle being told what they are doing wrong dont like the draftroom, they want something to be the way they think it is and not the way physics demands it should be.

For the tech of level of this RP you should find very sound advice.
Just dont have thin skin about your ideas...also let people know if you dont have much actual knowledge of a subject, as that tends to make them less abrasive with comments.

BY THE WAY

Am I to understand it is the year 2012?

Thanks, I missed it earlier.

I'd say I was sorry Granate but I'm not, I stated facts.
Kiwi wants to throw a fit about being wrong..thats fine.
Because when I said the USN didnt have six thousand AShM his response is what brought the Harpoon up...until that point we were talking about a generic advanced AShM.

Since I plan on RPing here I take the responsibilty to know what i am dealing with...including things other people claim are correct.

Someone doesnt like being called out on doing something stupid, then dont do something stupid.
I do read every post and I am not a MOD either.

--------------

Futuris,
No problem.
You will find a lot of resources there and tutorials as well.
Most people there are very helpful if a little abrasive.

I'd say I was sorry Granate but I'm not, I stated facts.
Kiwi wants to throw a fit about being wrong..thats fine.
Because when I said the USN didnt have six thousand AShM his response is what brought the Harpoon up...until that point we were talking about a generic advanced AShM.

Since I plan on RPing here I take the responsibilty to know what i am dealing with...including things other people claim are correct.

Someone doesnt like being called out on doing something stupid, then dont do something stupid.
I do read every post and I am not a MOD either.



I wasn't looking for an Apology. I was mostly looking for a little civility between you two. I made my point in saying that Animarnia can manufacture the missle, but only after 4 or 5 more years. Even then production will likely be only 50 to 75 missles a year, and I doubt Animarnia will sell more the 20 or so as Exports.

That being said. Any information you have on a current topic is very helpful. As long as it's done in a calm manner that is. Anti-Ship Missles aren't exactly my speciality, that's reserved for Main Battle Tanks. Now have fun RPing.

Now have fun RPing.

There's not much to do.....conflicts in France, Panama, and Armenia are rather quiet. I don't want to involve myself in anything big because I don't have the military to back it up. We have a few trade deals going on off here and there. The only thread that could have come up to something very big is the fall of the RSFSR which would be a very drastic change in SYAE. However, the "Blue Army" is declining most requests of engagements (not that I necessarily blame Candistan for it, he wants to take care of his country he should have the right to).

Dae wants to start something though, as he has said many, many times. That could be an interesting prospect once he gets going somewhere.

Panam could potentially become a big conflict if people around there RP more and more.

France is starting to look scary, with Dae trying to intervene and tempers running high.

Armenia could become a hot zone when Jared's plan to move the Armenians is eventually discovered.

But nothing huge right now....Spring Break is almost over and nothing to do.

Granate: Are you still in the Svalbard thread...?

Look in your thread.

Who says I'll ever be discovered in Armenia?

>>;;

Not like moving 1.5 million people will get discovered

it comes down to this : - What does SYAE want to base itself on?

Something explicitly based off real life in which case if we take one we take them all.
Iraq is a shit hole;
Iran looks like its going to get itself glassed,
Russia collapsing in on itself
Chinese Economy is currently balancing on a knife edge
Japan are tottal pacifistic
NK is run by a nutter
Chavez is blowing a nut
Shrub is in the whitehouse
Palenstine and Isreal are killing each other
Lebonon just got bombed back 30 years
Mexico is a huge drug traficing nation
The Commies are gone
Modern Germany and the UK would never invade france.
Turkey wouldn't try and Genocide Armenia because they are trying to get into the EU (again)
Africa is slowing being wiped out by Aids.
Al Quida is running around blowing stuff up
the world is a coldron if religious hatred.
The US is the most industrialised nation on earth

take one as complete explicit with no room for change. you take them all.

I joing SYAE because it promised a living, changing world not related to real life; a fantasy earth changing and evolving a world with concequence; imposing strict rules just to keep the EU and america top of the food chain is nothing short of hypocracy. whats good for one nation is good for all nations.

SYAE from its outset under CK has been different; Commies in spain, a Chechnyia genocide; china on steroids, a russian civil war, an invasion of france; none of these things would happen in real life; but they happen in SYAE; so why on earth can't africa become tech advanced?

you also have to factor in our unique culture while our warrior caste are our armed forces. most of the population are worker or religiouis cast; workers, dreamers, scientists, inventors, priests and diplomats. surely a nation bult on scientific development would have a research bonus?. but if people want to be narrow minded and only take what we know as RL then you have to take all the things that come with it.

adding - no nation can develop new technolgy unless they are part of the EU or the united states is one sure fire way to get most players to quit.

He was basically saying that your nation had no Experiance making Anti-Ship Missles and you were basically putting out a missle that was better then the Harpoon in less time then the Harpoon. In reality I don't care if you have experiance, but you're going to need quite along time to develope anything short of may be small arms.

He was basically saying that your nation had no Experiance making Anti-Ship Missles and you were basically putting out a missle that was better then the Harpoon in less time then the Harpoon. In reality I don't care if you have experiance, but you're going to need quite along time to develope anything short of may be small arms.

We been building the soviet stuff for decades? dos't that count as experiance?

and secondly instead of bitching oocly; why not create his own successor to the harpoon and compete icly.

I'd say I was sorry Granate but I'm not, I stated facts.
Kiwi wants to throw a fit about being wrong..thats fine.
Because when I said the USN didnt have six thousand AShM his response is what brought the Harpoon up...until that point we were talking about a generic advanced AShM.

Since I plan on RPing here I take the responsibilty to know what i am dealing with...including things other people claim are correct.

Someone doesnt like being called out on doing something stupid, then dont do something stupid.
I do read every post and I am not a MOD either.

No, I was responding to your attacking me over your own fantasies, and don't pretend you didn't. My Navy has absolutely nothing to do with the American Navy, and there is absolutely no reason why, just because America bought less than 7000 Harpoons, I can't end up buying 6000. And of course, only a complete idiot would think an order for 6000 missiles were to be completed in one year.

Then let's go back to the fact that Kiwiland IS NOT the United States. The USN might not want/need 6000 ASM. Doesn't mean I don't. If you want to question the feasibility of holding 6000 missiles, take a look at AAM. 5000 Phoenix were built for the F-14s. Tens of thousands of Sidewinders have been built for some models. Production of the Sparrow ran into 70,000. Initially at least plans for AMRAAM were in the excess of 20,000.

Missiles are missiles whether they are intended to hit ships or something else. There is no reason to say it's impossible to operate 6000 ASM, as long as I can pay for it.

Besides, Boeing delivered 7000 Harpoons AND 1000 SLAM.

Who says I'll ever be discovered in Armenia?

>>;;

Not like moving 1.5 million people will get discovered

I think it will.....

We been building the soviet stuff for decades? dos't that count as experiance?

and secondly instead of bitching oocly; why not create his own successor to the harpoon and compete icly.

I don't want to bitch about it either, but the way I see it, SYAE is an Earth primarily based off of RL. True, things can change in SYAE based on your RPing - for example, Animarnia has RPed a lot of economic growth and change, which gives his nations a boost from what it is in RL. Still, in RL, the United States took a way longer time to develop state-of-the-art anti-shipping missiles and they are the most industrialized country on Earth (in RL - in SYAE they're getting up there, but Dae is looking real huge too). You did RP developing the missiles 4-5 SYAE years back, but it would take more time to develop something like that, even if you have experience. I'm not saying that you can't have advanced tech - no, you're certainly welcome to, especially if you RP it (which you have been) but unless your production capacity in SYAE is larger than the United States in RL by a lot, it would take a few more years (4-5) to finally develop the missile at minimum.

On the issue with things changed in SYAE from RL - as long as WP and/or Granate approve of your starting positions, whatever happens from then on happens in the form of you RPing. As long as the RP's are acceptable (non-god modding or exceeding tech level) then your country can advance past its RL standards - but only if you RP it nicely. Animarnia has done just that over the past two months, and he's allowed to. True, he may have not developed the missiles in 4-5 years - that was a mistake, everyone makes them, or maybe he didn't know how long it took for similar missiles to be developed in RL. Although Animarnia (and any nation for that matter) can develop their economy, military, etc. by RPing, SYAE is based off of RL, so production times, costs, etc. of things in RL should be fairly similar in SYAE.

Oh, and to all the recently joined nations who haven't started their factbooks yet, you should probably get around to that.

OK. I am working on the final write-up for the Leopard 3 tank. Expect something tonight.

6 more pages until we reach 100...

I've noticed a trend in inactivity here in SYAE. What usually happens is people sign up, are really excited for a few days or less, and then go quiet. They're still out there and active in the rest of NS, but 'leave' SYAE. Sometimes for good, sometimes temporarily.

edit: yes, I'm finally at 1.00 posts/day

I don't want to bitch about it either, but the way I see it, SYAE is an Earth primarily based off of RL. True, things can change in SYAE based on your RPing - for example, Animarnia has RPed a lot of economic growth and change, which gives his nations a boost from what it is in RL. Still, in RL, the United States took a way longer time to develop state-of-the-art anti-shipping missiles and they are the most industrialized country on Earth (in RL - in SYAE they're getting up there, but Dae is looking real huge too). You did RP developing the missiles 4-5 SYAE years back, but it would take more time to develop something like that, even if you have experience. I'm not saying that you can't have advanced tech - no, you're certainly welcome to, especially if you RP it (which you have been) but unless your production capacity in SYAE is larger than the United States in RL by a lot, it would take a few more years (4-5) to finally develop the missile at minimum.

On the issue with things changed in SYAE from RL - as long as WP and/or Granate approve of your starting positions, whatever happens from then on happens in the form of you RPing. As long as the RP's are acceptable (non-god modding or exceeding tech level) then your country can advance past its RL standards - but only if you RP it nicely. Animarnia has done just that over the past two months, and he's allowed to. True, he may have not developed the missiles in 4-5 years - that was a mistake, everyone makes them, or maybe he didn't know how long it took for similar missiles to be developed in RL. Although Animarnia (and any nation for that matter) can develop their economy, military, etc. by RPing, SYAE is based off of RL, so production times, costs, etc. of things in RL should be fairly similar in SYAE.

Oh, and to all the recently joined nations who haven't started their factbooks yet, you should probably get around to that.

but isn't is posable that a nation who has 30% of there population as Scientists likely to develop new stuff faster?

3% soldiers
10% Law Enforcment
30% Scientists and doctors
5% Priests
2% Diplomats
50% Workers.

but isn't is posable that a nation who has 30% of there population as Scientists likely to develop new stuff faster?

3% soldiers
10% Law Enforcment
30% Scientists and doctors
5% Priests
2% Diplomats
50% Workers.

Are all of them working on the same project? No. So the answer is no. And I have some serious doubts that 30% of your population is going to be scientists. Where are the Merchants and Business People? Your list is missing some important groups.

Are all of them working on the same project? No. So the answer is no. And I have some serious doubts that 30% of your population is going to be scientists. Where are the Merchants and Business People? Your list is missing some important groups.

those would be under the workers "worker caste" includes all those things. and 30% working on the same project of course not; but 30% of our population is 29 million people. thats a lot of scientists all working on different projects. why can't our people be smart. if we can have commies in spain why can't we have a nation thats science driven.

and you still havn't answered my question that does building the Sovet Era stuff for decades count for shit?

those would be under the workers "worker caste" includes all those things. and 30% working on the same project of course not; but 30% of our population is 29 million people. thats a lot of scientists all working on different projects. why can't our people be smart. if we can have commies in spain why can't we have a nation thats science driven.

and you still havn't answered my question that does building the Sovet Era stuff for decades count for shit?

No, it doesn't because almost any nation in the world can manufacture Soviet Era Equipment. Not well, but they can manufacture it.

I've already stated my position on this. To stop further arguments you are going to have to RP the developement 4 or 5 more years, mainly because even if your nation is Science Driven it's still going to take along time. No if and's or but's.

Ok people, here's my Final Draft of the Leopard 3. I may make some revisions between now and when I put it in the IC Thread and I would like some comments and ideas.
The Leopard 3

The Leopard 3 is the newest Main Battle Tank designed for the German Bundeswehr. It began its life during the year 2007, when the German Military Okayed the Kampfpanzer 3 Project. The Goal of this project was to decide between two things. The first was to decide if it was time to design a new Main Battle Tank or not. The second was to decide that if it wasn’t time to build a new Main Battle Tank was it time to make a massive update to the Leopard 2. It was decided that the Leopard 2 would receive a minor update and would be designated the Leopard 2A7, but during this time a new Main Battle Tank would be designed. It would take much of the Leopard 2 had and better it. For lack of better words, the Leopard 3 is basically the Leopard 2 on Steroids.

Armament

The main gun of the Leopard 3 is the K33 Rheinmetall 135 mm Smoothbore Cannon. The K33 has been in development since 1999 by Rheinmetall. It was first envisioned as a possible upgrade for the Leopard 2, it was even tested on some Leopard 2A4s back in 01. But the German Bundeswehr didn’t think it was very prudent to stick a large gun in the Leopard 2. It made the Turret quite a bit more crowded and this caused a few more accidents then the German Bundeswehr needed. It spent the next 6 years being tweaked and modified by Rheinmetall. By the time the gun was chosen as the gun for the Leopard 3, it had gone through some changes. It weighed only 1.5 times the L55 120 Smoothbore used on the Leopard 2 and it included an Autoloader. This is mainly due to the advancement of Ceramics and other light-weight but strong materials and metals.

The Leopard 3 also has two MG3s. They fire 7.62 x 51 mm Cartridge at a staggering 1150 rounds/minute. One is coaxial and can be used by the Gunner instead of the Main Gun for times when you only need a Machine Gun. The other is just to the right of the Commander’s Hatch. There are only 4,500 Rounds available to Machine guns.

Finally, the Leopard 3 has 2 5 barreled Grenade Launchers on either side of the Turret. These can fire a numerous number of variations in Grenades, but the Grenades must be inserted before fighting and combat. Grenades that can be used include: Fragmentation; Smoke; Chaff; and High-Explosive.

Armor

The Leopard 3 uses a much improved composite armor found on the Leopard 2. It uses high-hardness steel as a first layer of defense. The second defense layer is made up of tungsten and plastic mixed together. The final layer is heavy duty ceramic. Also much like its predecessor, the Leopard 3 will allow for Armor Modules to be added post manufacture to increase its defense. This style of armor all adds up to equal a very good RHAe estimate.

RHAe Turret Estimate: 1200 – 1260 (KE), 2,350 – 2410 (CE)
RHAe Glacis Estimate: 820 – 840 (KE), 950 – 1030 (CE)
RHAe Lower Front Hull Estimate: 810 – 820 (KE), 930 – 1020 (CE)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/647/leopard3oq4.jpg

Length: 8 m (11.6 with Main Gun)
Width: 3.7 m
Height: 3 m
Weight: 69 tonnes
Crew: 3 (Commander, Gunner, and Driver)
Main Armament: 1 x Coaxial 135 mm Rheinmetall Smoothbore Cannon
Secondary Armament: 2 x 7.62 mm MG3s. 2 5 Barrelled Grenade Launchers.
Ammo Capicity: 45 Cannon Rounds. (25 APFSDS-T, 15 HEAT-FS, 5 HE-FRAG-FS), 4,500 7.62 Rounds, Numerous Variations of Grenades added before combat.
Engine: 12 Cylinder 2,000 HP Diesel Engine.
Fuel Capicity: 1900 Litres
Fuel Consumption (Road): .25 km per Litre
Fuel Consumption (Cross-Country): .105 km per Litre
Range (Road): 475 km
Range (Cross Country): 200 km
Power to Weight Ratio: 28.99 hp/tonne
Top Speed (Road): 73 km/h
Top Speed (Cross-Country): 53 km/h
Armour: 4th Generation Composite; including including high-hardness steel, tungsten and plastic filler with ceramic component.
Fording Depth: 1.25 m
Deep Water Depth: 2.35 m
Underwater Depth (With Snorkel): 3.85 m
Other Equipment: PERI-R 17 A4 Panoramic Periscope, EMES 17 Rheinmetall Magnification Sight, CMTA2 Infared Sight, CE635 Laser Range-Finder, and GPS Systems.



As you can tell, I am not good with armor write-ups.

Ok people, here's my Final Draft of the Leopard 3. I may make some revisions between now and when I put it in the IC Thread and I would like some comments and ideas.


As you can tell, I am not good with armor write-ups.

Rate of fire on the main gun? Tank design isn't my speciality (I'm better with aircraft as I like my plane porn) but Muzzel velocity and Penitrator will also be a factor. a larger shell will give you better penitration at a slower muzzel velocity but trades off rate of fire as far as I know anyway but as Mac said Penitration falls off when you hit 2000 m/s.

The armour looks pretty solid' and the germans have an excelent reputation for good tanks. might want to add in some NERA or NxRA blocks but other than that looks good.

Rate of fire on the main gun? Tank design isn't my speciality (I'm better with aircraft as I like my plane porn) but Muzzel velocity and Penitrator will also be a factor. a larger shell will give you better penitration at a slower muzzel velocity but trades off rate of fire as far as I know anyway but as Mac said Penitration falls off when you hit 2000 m/s.

The armour looks pretty solid' and the germans have an excelent reputation for good tanks. might want to add in some NERA or NxRA blocks but other than that looks good.

I tried to design a fighter... I got as far as the Engines and said "Fuck this". I like tanks better mostly because I like Tanks. Always have since I started watching the History Channel back when all they showed was WWII. I would always stay up and watch the tank shows.

Ok people, here's my Final Draft of the Leopard 3. I may make some revisions between now and when I put it in the IC Thread and I would like some comments and ideas.


As you can tell, I am not good with armor write-ups.

Any idea to how much it costs?

Any idea to how much it costs?

I am guessing between 4.75 and 6.5 Million per tank. Possibly more.

but isn't is posable that a nation who has 30% of there population as Scientists likely to develop new stuff faster?

3% soldiers
10% Law Enforcment
30% Scientists and doctors
5% Priests
2% Diplomats
50% Workers.

This set up is rather curious and I don't think it works. 3% soldiers is okay. Is 10% of your population (or about 10 million people) really Law Enforcement? Is this in the form of police....?

5% priests....that would come to around 5 million. Do you really have 5 million people in your country setting up religious practices and churches? Unless your country is very, very religious (which from what you've RPed so far, it doesn't seem to be) this is strange.

2% Diplomats.....I'm assuming you mean as in 2 million people are in some way involved in the Government?

50% Workers....now this is strange. You have stated repeatedly that you want to bring about economic reform and change to Animarnia. You boast of resilient and plentiful workers for which other nations can build factories in Animarnia and produce things with Animarnian workers. And by 50 million workers that means all corporations, all merchants, traders, businessmen, common workers, etc. In other words, your labor population. That doesn't make sense. If you want to build an economically stable nation, you need people to generate money. I'm perfectly fine with you gaining a better GDP through RPing - but where are the people to work the lands, to generate income and tax?

30% Scientists and researchers further allows for disbelief. Scientists and researchers don't generate money - they spend it. That's what they're for, to use money made by the government and spend it researching and developing new technologies, weapons, etc. True - if they develop something cool and good, they can potentially sell it for a lot of money, but usually the income derived from that, if ever (a lot of money often goes into projects that turn out to be a waste, happens all the time) should about match the money spent on the research. The only reason research reallly exists as a concept is that those technologies usually allow for a better way of life, a better way of death (lol - weapons of war), etc.

So really, I think (unless you have a big explanation for this which I missed) that you need to choose between one of the two. Be an economically successful nation, perhaps scientifically driven, but not to those heights. Or, you can have 30% of your people do research off of spare pennies produced by half your population. They won't get far, but hey - spare pennies to 30 milion people might get somewhere, right?

I'm not trying to be an ass, but in RL, 30% of your population doing research is impossible, if you want to have a stable economy that prospers. I understand that you want a high tech level nation - that's fine with me, and it should be fine with everyone (if not, only in IC terms). And it's fine with the rules of SYAE (I think) to grow from a few African nations into an economic giant with enough time and RPing. But you need to find a balance between the two. It's not up to me to decide, and I hope this in no way fouls our relationship in IC terms :p

I tried to design a fighter... I got as far as the Engines and said "Fuck this". I like tanks better mostly because I like Tanks. Always have since I started watching the History Channel back when all they showed was WWII. I would always stay up and watch the tank shows.

lol, I would if my parents had let me stay up....:p

I tried to design a fighter... I got as far as the Engines and said "Fuck this". I like tanks better mostly because I like Tanks. Always have since I started watching the History Channel back when all they showed was WWII. I would always stay up and watch the tank shows.

I like military hardware in general; plus its fun to go up to Duxford airbase and touch plans and go "oooo". the history channel are still pretty hot on WWII; I admit the German Tiger tank is probably one of my all time favourite tanks.

I am guessing between 4.75 and 6.5 Million per tank. Possibly more.

If you want you can test the Lepoard 3 in my arctic regions.....

Plus, I may be looking into buying a few in the near future, when you start exporting them (if you do). Either stock up on Leopard 3's or design a new MBT for my nation. Maybe a little bit of both...

Looks like I'm going to go to Russia when they're all settled for all of my military hardware, I guess, based on all these last posts. At least Russia can deal without the OOC shit.

Looks like I'm going to go to Russia when they're all settled for all of my military hardware, I guess, based on all these last posts. At least Russia can deal without the OOC shit.

damn skippy :)

I work with the Americans and Russians

Yay :D

Well here is the final draft.
The Leopard 3

The Leopard 3 is the newest Main Battle Tank designed for the German Bundeswehr. It began its life during the year 2007, when the German Military Okayed the Kampfpanzer 3 Project. The Goal of this project was to decide between two things. The first was to decide if it was time to design a new Main Battle Tank or not. The second was to decide that if it wasn’t time to build a new Main Battle Tank was it time to make a massive update to the Leopard 2. It was decided that the Leopard 2 would receive a minor update and would be designated the Leopard 2A7, but during this time a new Main Battle Tank would be designed. It would take much of the Leopard 2 had and better it. For lack of better words, the Leopard 3 is basically the Leopard 2 on Steroids.

Armament

The main gun of the Leopard 3 is the K33 Rheinmetall 135 mm Smoothbore Cannon. It fires shells at an average of 1 shell every 4 to 7 seconds, with a muzzel velocity of around 1950 m/s. The K33 has been in development since 1999 by Rheinmetall. It was first envisioned as a possible upgrade for the Leopard 2, it was even tested on some Leopard 2A4s back in 01. But the German Bundeswehr didn’t think it was very prudent to stick a large gun in the Leopard 2. It made the Turret quite a bit more crowded and this caused a few more accidents then the German Bundeswehr needed. It spent the next 6 years being tweaked and modified by Rheinmetall. By the time the gun was chosen as the gun for the Leopard 3, it had gone through some changes. It weighed only 1.5 times the L55 120 Smoothbore used on the Leopard 2 and it included an Autoloader. This is mainly due to the advancement of Ceramics and other light-weight but strong materials and metals.

The Leopard 3 also has two MG3s. They fire 7.62 x 51 mm Cartridge at a staggering 1150 rounds/minute. One is coaxial and can be used by the Gunner instead of the Main Gun for times when you only need a Machine Gun. The other is just to the right of the Commander’s Hatch. There are only 4,500 Rounds available to Machine guns.

Finally, the Leopard 3 has 2 5 barreled Grenade Launchers on either side of the Turret. These can fire a numerous number of variations in Grenades, but the Grenades must be inserted before fighting and combat. Grenades that can be used include: Fragmentation; Smoke; Chaff; and High-Explosive.

Armor

The Leopard 3 uses a much improved composite armor found on the Leopard 2. It uses high-hardness steel as a first layer of defense. The second defense layer is made up of tungsten and plastic mixed together. The final layer is heavy duty ceramic. Also much like its predecessor, the Leopard 3 will allow for Armor Modules to be added post manufacture to increase its defense. Most of the armor modules involve NxRA armor plates that can be added to almost part of the tank. These plates are among the lightest NxRA armor plates in the world and are completely safe to handle. This style of armor all adds up to equal a very good RHAe estimate.

Without Armor Modules:
RHAe Turret Estimate: 1200 – 1260 (KE), 2,350 – 2410 (CE)
RHAe Glacis Estimate: 820 – 840 (KE), 950 – 1030 (CE)
RHAe Lower Front Hull Estimate: 810 – 820 (KE), 930 – 1020 (CE)

With Armor Modules:
RHAe Turret Estimate: 1260 – 1310 (KE), 2400 – 2470 (CE)
RHAe Glacis Estimate: 850 – 870 (KE), 970 – 1060 (CE)
RHAe Lower Front Hull Estimate: 840 – 860 (KE), 960 – 1050 (CE)

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/647/leopard3oq4.jpg

Length: 8 m (11.6 with Main Gun)
Width: 3.7 m
Height: 3 m
Weight: 69 tonnes
Crew: 3 (Commander, Gunner, and Driver)
Main Armament: 1 x Coaxial 135 mm Rheinmetall Smoothbore Cannon
Secondary Armament: 2 x 7.62 mm MG3s. 2 5 Barrelled Grenade Launchers.
Ammo Capicity: 45 Cannon Rounds. (25 APFSDS-T, 15 HEAT-FS, 5 HE-FRAG-FS), 4,500 7.62 Rounds, Numerous Variations of Grenades added before combat.
Engine: 12 Cylinder 2,000 HP Diesel Engine.
Fuel Capicity: 1900 Litres
Fuel Consumption (Road): .25 km per Litre
Fuel Consumption (Cross-Country): .105 km per Litre
Range (Road): 475 km
Range (Cross Country): 200 km
Power to Weight Ratio: 28.99 hp/tonne
Top Speed (Road): 73 km/h
Top Speed (Cross-Country): 53 km/h
Armour: 4th Generation Composite; including including high-hardness steel, tungsten and plastic filler with ceramic component.
Fording Depth: 1.25 m
Deep Water Depth: 2.35 m
Underwater Depth (With Snorkel): 3.85 m
Other Equipment: PERI-R 17 A4 Panoramic Periscope, EMES 17 Rheinmetall Magnification Sight, CMTA2 Infared Sight, CE635 Laser Range-Finder, and GPS Systems.

Looks like I'm going to go to Russia when they're all settled for all of my military hardware, I guess, based on all these last posts. At least Russia can deal without the OOC shit.

What?

If you want you can test the Lepoard 3 in my arctic regions.....

Plus, I may be looking into buying a few in the near future, when you start exporting them (if you do). Either stock up on Leopard 3's or design a new MBT for my nation. Maybe a little bit of both...

Testing them in the Artic Regions probably won't happen, mainly because I can replicate the cold of the Artic in the Alps. It won't be the same I know, but if they work well enough in the Alps, I expect they will work well enough in the Artic without much modification.

And yes they will be exported, but only in an Export Model. The Export Model won't include the Armor Modules, Auto-Loader, or some of the more advanced electronics. It will be called the Leopard 3Ex for Export. While my Domestic models will be designated the Leopard 3A. B - D may be used for other models.

Somewhat Secret IC:

It was time to rebuild Armenia, aprox. 4 days after combat ended. Hundreds of tractor trailers moved into Armenia, viewable from satellite. In them, not viewable from satellite, were various supplies. Most of it consisted of lumber, on plastic shelves. Shelves were on the side of the trucks, an empty middle. The trucks moved towards the eastern part of Armenia.

The lumber was unloaded, something else was to be loaded on. A new sort of cargo, one that lived. That's right, the Balkan Union had a plan to move over a million Armenians into the Balkan Union. But...how would they do this? They would have to move families at a time, entire towns at a time. Certainly, flaws were not thought of by Crvenkovski-but he didn't care.

A number of families gladly hopped onto the trucks, air conditioned with a hope for a new life. However, others refused to cooperate. It took time to coax the families, yet several refused to go. The ones that refused to go were dealt with quickly, a bullet to the head or another part of the body.

Several Balkan soldiers were killed during this time by Armenians, few Armenians able to escape. But who would believe such a tale that Balkans were wasting their own gas money to get Armenians into Turkey?

Expect to killing alot of Armenians, mostly because Armenians don't like Turks. Hell, they pratically hate them almost as much as the Azeris.

Expect to killing alot of Armenians, mostly because Armenians don't like Turks. Hell, they pratically hate them almost as much as the Azeris.

Note that I'm starting off in the east, buddy. An area that they'd hate Azeris more than Turks.

Note that I'm starting off in the east, buddy. An area that they'd hate Azeris more than Turks.

Even though, they still hate Turks. I doubt they'd easily forget the attack you did on their Country. They probably hate you more right now.

Don't you think the nations with spy satellites looking at Armenia would notice the lack of transportation and auto traffic, not to mention factories and airports not doing anything to support the infrassrtucture of the country?

Don't you think the nations with spy satellites looking at Armenia would notice the lack of transportation and auto traffic, not to mention factories and airports not doing anything to support the infrassrtucture of the country?

I don't think Armenia had much of an industry prior to this, and if anything all of it would've been reduced post-war times.

Even though, they still hate Turks. I doubt they'd easily forget the attack you did on their Country. They probably hate you more right now.

You fail to remember that the Armenian government willingly transfered their nation's control to me. As time goes on, more and more conflict will occur.

Testing them in the Artic Regions probably won't happen, mainly because I can replicate the cold of the Artic in the Alps. It won't be the same I know, but if they work well enough in the Alps, I expect they will work well enough in the Artic without much modification.

And yes they will be exported, but only in an Export Model. The Export Model won't include the Armor Modules, Auto-Loader, or some of the more advanced electronics. It will be called the Leopard 3Ex for Export. While my Domestic models will be designated the Leopard 3A. B - D may be used for other models.

You can somewhat replicate sub-arctic regions in the Alps, yes. But anything hardcore sub-arctic or pure Arctic would most likely pose a problem to your tank. But hey, it's not like you're going to get those tanks involved in anywhere like that....

That's also why all of my military equipment is tweaked a little by my country to ensure survival in those kind of extreme temperatures. My soldiers are also trained to withstand that type of climate.

You can somewhat replicate sub-arctic regions in the Alps, yes. But anything hardcore sub-arctic or pure Arctic would most likely pose a problem to your tank. But hey, it's not like you're going to get those tanks involved in anywhere like that....

That's also why all of my military equipment is tweaked a little by my country to ensure survival in those kind of extreme temperatures. My soldiers are also trained to withstand that type of climate.

Tank battles in the Artic? Really? If anything fighting in the Artic would be more infrantry then Vehicles. Also tank battles are usually fought on plains and reletively flat areas. Note: You're land is only flat in Sweden and then it has a Baltic Clime, which is quite warmer compared to Norway.

Several flaws with your plan:

(1) The population in Armenia is 3 million - the majority of that 3 million is centered in Yerevan {population of 1 million}. There is no effective method to reach all of those 3 million people without touching urban areas - where word of mouth spreads very quickly.

(2) Moving one million people in lumber trucks (presumably covered trucks) would require one thousand trucks each carrying one thousand people. More than likely, you don't have trucks that carry one thousand people at a time - in fact, they probably could barely afford to carry at best 200 people humanely. So assuming you have 200 people per truck moving between Turkey and Armenia, you would need to traffic at least 5000 trucks. It is impractical to move 5000 trucks through Armenia in one day - because you are not only loading humans but also unloading timber - so let us presume that you move one hundred trucks per day. One hundred trucks per day translates into 50 days worth of reasonable logistical operations to transport the people and the timber. I cannot say whether it is possible to move one million people in 50 days, but for the sake of this scenario let us presume that it is possible. One million people in 50 days means you are moving 20,000 people in one day. If you start shuttling people in trucks across Armenia from the East, people will notice the large trucks shuttling their own country folk being abducted from their own country, unless you took the long route around through the country - taking your 100 trucks longer to traverse the terrain in Armenia. In any case, over the course of those 50 days, the Armenia people will know what is going on, and more importantly, I will know what is going on. And yes, given my current disposition towards your country ICly, my government will believe the grievances of the Armenian people over your declarations. Furthermore, in 50 days, you will have only moved 1 million people, after which I presume that you would want to open up a referendum in Armenia to consider its future - in which case the 2 million people still present would provide the majority vote still. And the referendum would take even more time to organize - possibly another 30 days to execute effectively.

(3) Even though your government received the surrender - not a willful transference of authority, but more an act of desperation - of the Armenian government, it does not necessarily and cannot literally be assumed that the people of Armenia accept the surrender. There is much more history in Armenia than is presumed. Additionally, the Turkish army - presumably - launched attacks on their country, so to assume that they will not look harshly upon Turkish soldiers is a false assumption. It would be the equivalent of me presuming that Turkish people will "like" an occupation of their country by invading Han or Kiwiland soldiers - and yes, your soldiers are invading their country, because they weren't there before and no one asked for them to come either.

(4) As Candistan noted, people with any reasonable satellite coverage will see the lack of people in Armenia. We won't notice immediately, but 20,000 people disappearing each day will be noticed. Furthermore, as far as I have noticed, you have not indicated where you will placing the displaced Armenians - and I would hope that you do not organize them into concentration camps, which are clearly visible in satellite images (you cannot hide 1,000,000 people for a long time). Even if you decide to bury them in an underground facility, you would have to build the facility - because I doubt that you would have a ready underground concentration camp available to your use that would shield against infrared cameras. In the meantime, our satellites will be able to notice at least that 5000 trucks have passed in and out of Armenia in the past 50 days.

(5) Unless you want to have one million witnesses, you are going to have to kill or force the disappearance of the displaced Armenians. Otherwise, the world will have a record of the second Armenian genocide - assuming that all goes according to your plan.


I will give this a couple of days before I publicly announce noticing anything, unless I see anything that gives me reason to assume I wouldn't suspect something is going awry. And given the actions that you've started, I highly doubt that.

Looks like I'm going to go to Russia when they're all settled for all of my military hardware, I guess, based on all these last posts. At least Russia can deal without the OOC shit.

Why not Han?

Why not Han?

Because Russian Arms just tight like that! Why get a T-95 when you can get an AN-94?

Because Russian Arms just tight like that! Why get a T-95 when you can get an AN-94?

The T-95 {Russian tank} would beat the An-94 {Russian rifle} for certain.

The T-95 {Russian tank} would beat the An-94 {Russian rifle} for certain.

I was talking about the Chinese AR, not the T-90 MBT

How come I'm not on the IFP? I could have sworn that I signed up for it.

How come I'm not on the IFP? I could have sworn that I signed up for it.

civil war...

and I refer to the Type-95 as 'QBZ-95'

Several flaws with your plan:

(1) The population in Armenia is 3 million - the majority of that 3 million is centered in Yerevan {population of 1 million}. There is no effective method to reach all of those 3 million people without touching urban areas - where word of mouth spreads very quickly.

(2) Moving one million people in lumber trucks (presumably covered trucks) would require one thousand trucks each carrying one thousand people. More than likely, you don't have trucks that carry one thousand people at a time - in fact, they probably could barely afford to carry at best 200 people humanely. So assuming you have 200 people per truck moving between Turkey and Armenia, you would need to traffic at least 5000 trucks. It is impractical to move 5000 trucks through Armenia in one day - because you are not only loading humans but also unloading timber - so let us presume that you move one hundred trucks per day. One hundred trucks per day translates into 50 days worth of reasonable logistical operations to transport the people and the timber. I cannot say whether it is possible to move one million people in 50 days, but for the sake of this scenario let us presume that it is possible. One million people in 50 days means you are moving 20,000 people in one day. If you start shuttling people in trucks across Armenia from the East, people will notice the large trucks shuttling their own country folk being abducted from their own country, unless you took the long route around through the country - taking your 100 trucks longer to traverse the terrain in Armenia. In any case, over the course of those 50 days, the Armenia people will know what is going on, and more importantly, I will know what is going on. And yes, given my current disposition towards your country ICly, my government will believe the grievances of the Armenian people over your declarations. Furthermore, in 50 days, you will have only moved 1 million people, after which I presume that you would want to open up a referendum in Armenia to consider its future - in which case the 2 million people still present would provide the majority vote still. And the referendum would take even more time to organize - possibly another 30 days to execute effectively.

(3) Even though your government received the surrender - not a willful transference of authority, but more an act of desperation - of the Armenian government, it does not necessarily and cannot literally be assumed that the people of Armenia accept the surrender. There is much more history in Armenia than is presumed. Additionally, the Turkish army - presumably - launched attacks on their country, so to assume that they will not look harshly upon Turkish soldiers is a false assumption. It would be the equivalent of me presuming that Turkish people will "like" an occupation of their country by invading Han or Kiwiland soldiers - and yes, your soldiers are invading their country, because they weren't there before and no one asked for them to come either.

(4) As Candistan noted, people with any reasonable satellite coverage will see the lack of people in Armenia. We won't notice immediately, but 20,000 people disappearing each day will be noticed. Furthermore, as far as I have noticed, you have not indicated where you will placing the displaced Armenians - and I would hope that you do not organize them into concentration camps, which are clearly visible in satellite images (you cannot hide 1,000,000 people for a long time). Even if you decide to bury them in an underground facility, you would have to build the facility - because I doubt that you would have a ready underground concentration camp available to your use that would shield against infrared cameras. In the meantime, our satellites will be able to notice at least that 5000 trucks have passed in and out of Armenia in the past 50 days.

(5) Unless you want to have one million witnesses, you are going to have to kill or force the disappearance of the displaced Armenians. Otherwise, the world will have a record of the second Armenian genocide - assuming that all goes according to your plan.


I will give this a couple of days before I publicly announce noticing anything, unless I see anything that gives me reason to assume I wouldn't suspect something is going awry. And given the actions that you've started, I highly doubt that.

1) Plan is starting in the east.

2) Never stated I was moving 1 million at a time and never stated anything about humanely travelling now did I? How will they know what is going on in trucks that are closed up, moving to and from Armenia to bring more and more supplies? The Armenian populace knows that the Yellow asses forced the Balkan Union to rebuild their own nation.

3) Didn't feel like reading, so I'll just say "k"

4) You stated that I must rebuild Armenia, and I am doing so by moving trucks in and out. While the rebuilding is going on, unloaded lumber will be used. If you find it suspicious that I am unloading lumber, then I will call it a godmod. Surely, the trucks will have to move in and out of Armenia to unload more and more supplies. Are the supplies going to appear out of thin air? No, they aren't. I'm following your rules, big bad China.

5) For the last fucking time, there is not going to be a genocide. Any claims that I will have a genocide will be ignored.

As I'm tired right now and in no mood to really post, I'll leave it at this.

Around 750,000 Armenians, leaving Yerevan and another 1.25M still in Armenia. will be moved in 180 days, around 4200 Armenians a day. Trucks being used are 636in long x 100in wide x 142in tall, if I remember my area formula correctly that translates to 8967600 cubic inches or 747300 cubic feet. The floor of each truck will be ~442 sq feet, and by adding a second shelf as stated in my original post I would then be able to increase each truck into ~884 sq feet. Factoring in the occasional person over 5'11in, I'd say I could uncomfortably fit 600 people in each truck. As each truck is air conditioned, that would be less of a burden. Judging by my calculations at this 2:15AM, I would need ~7 trucks a day to complete my goal.

If I'm wrong, sue me.

At some times, I would use less trucks (as now, less populated areas) and more for cities.

5) For the last fucking time, there is not going to be a genocide. Any claims that I will have a genocide will be ignored.

Just so you don't misunderstand me....

My people can think whatever they want and tell the soldiers whatever they like to justify intervention in Armenia :cool:

Plus your understanding of the term genocide appears flawed. Actions other than killing everyone counts, too.

Around 750,000 Armenians, leaving Yerevan and another 1.25M still in Armenia. will be moved in 180 days, around 4200 Armenians a day. Trucks being used are 636in long x 100in wide x 142in tall, if I remember my area formula correctly that translates to 8967600 cubic inches or 747300 cubic feet. The floor of each truck will be ~442 sq feet, and by adding a second shelf as stated in my original post I would then be able to increase each truck into ~884 sq feet. Factoring in the occasional person over 5'11in, I'd say I could uncomfortably fit 600 people in each truck. As each truck is air conditioned, that would be less of a burden. Judging by my calculations at this 2:15AM, I would need ~7 trucks a day to complete my goal.


I don't use inches, but seems pretty impossible to me to fit 600 people into 40 meters squared's woth of area, double deck or not.

Just so you don't misunderstand me....

My people can think whatever they want and tell the soldiers whatever they like to justify intervention in Armenia :cool:

Plus your understanding of the term genocide appears flawed. Actions other than killing everyone counts, too.



I don't use inches, but seems pretty impossible to me to fit 600 people into 40 meters squared's woth of area, double deck or not.

Well, the Indians did better in Calcutta, I s'pose...

Just so you don't misunderstand me....

My people can think whatever they want and tell the soldiers whatever they like to justify intervention in Armenia :cool:

Plus your understanding of the term genocide appears flawed. Actions other than killing everyone counts, too.



I don't use inches, but seems pretty impossible to me to fit 600 people into 40 meters squared's woth of area, double deck or not.

From Merrian-Webster's dictionary:

Main Entry: geno·cide
Pronunciation: 'je-n&-"sId
Function: noun
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group
- geno·cid·al /"je-n&-'sI-d&l/ adjective

I'm not doing any of the three, I know my own language thanks. Any military action against the Balkan Union at this point because 'it just so happens that we have a hunch that they're moving people' will be ignored. And your telephone comment? No wonder there would be no response, only 15% (taken from a source from Wikipedia, will cite if neccessary) of Armenians have telephones, and I'd assume all of them are in Yerevan.

Nothing is impossible. One person gets about 1.5 sq ft of room, less for some and more for others. The trucks are properly ventilated, so why not?

From Merrian-Webster's dictionary:

Main Entry: geno·cide
Pronunciation: 'je-n&-"sId
Function: noun
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group
- geno·cid·al /"je-n&-'sI-d&l/ adjective

I'm not doing any of the three, I know my own language thanks. Any military action against the Balkan Union at this point because 'it just so happens that we have a hunch that they're moving people' will be ignored. And your telephone comment? No wonder there would be no response, only 15% (taken from a source from Wikipedia, will cite if neccessary) of Armenians have telephones, and I'd assume all of them are in Yerevan.

Nothing is impossible. One person gets about 1.5 sq ft of room, less for some and more for others. The trucks are properly ventilated, so why not?

Uh, Kiwi's right on this one...he can attack you any friggin' time he wants for any reason he wants. This is an Earth, after all.

And do you realize how big 1.5 sq. ft of room is? That's tiny. 1 sq. feet is even less. 2 sq. feet is still really small. Everyone'll be packed like Sardines in there.

Uh, Kiwi's right on this one...he can attack you any friggin' time he wants for any reason he wants. This is an Earth, after all.

And do you realize how big 1.5 sq. ft of room is? That's tiny. 1 sq. feet is even less. 2 sq. feet is still really small. Everyone'll be packed like Sardines in there.

But find a better reason then "oh lol a bunch of angry
hoemless armenians told us sumthin nd we theenk its teh troo lol they kalld their famuhleez dat dont have telefonz or acess to da interwebs nd they didnt contakt dem so lol". And isn't it ironic that my invasion was a violation of sovereignity yet his would not? I lol...

I stated in a previous post that they were packed in like sardines. :P

I'm not contesting the sardines part-I'd probaly do the same thing if faced with a big number. Just stating.

As for a reason to attack, he could contrive something to do with, say, going along with Russian support in the campaign to take Armenia (even though Russia's in civil war-though he could expand that) and then make some accusations along that line. I could get specific, but there are several routes one could take form there. Granted, that wouldn't warrant immediate invasion.

I'm not contesting the sardines part-I'd probaly do the same thing if faced with a big number. Just stating.

As for a reason to attack, he could contrive something to do with, say, going along with Russian support in the campaign to take Armenia (even though Russia's in civil war-though he could expand that) and then make some accusations along that line. I could get specific, but there are several routes one could take form there. Granted, that wouldn't warrant immediate invasion.

The thing that peeved me the most is that he's using a rumor to invade. Hell, if I were in Armenian that just got his house burned down in war I'd say the Turks are up to something now.

And also, people in areas that aren't being moved know what's going on. Wtf is with that?

The thing that peeved me the most is that he's using a rumor to invade. Hell, if I were in Armenian that just got his house burned down in war I'd say the Turks are up to something now.

And also, people in areas that aren't being moved know what's going on. Wtf is with that?

Information can spread very quickly. And your nation has done other things to Armenia, including your attack on them. Any indication of you messing with Armenians would be taken very seriously and could be used as a probable cause to intervene.

Information can spread very quickly. And your nation has done other things to Armenia, including your attack on them. Any indication of you messing with Armenians would be taken very seriously and could be used as a probable cause to intervene.

Tell me how it will spread if I'm moving people in one part of the nation and most likely moving the entire population of that location (the administrative district of Syunik) which is just wilderness and few methods of telecommunications and yet the people still know?

So yeah, in this earth if you hear "a friend of my neighbor's dog's uncle's owner's cousin's friend's mother's roomate from college in her sophomore year's said that Germany is killing French", would that be grounds to attack Germany? Using WWI + WWI as other things on your nation, I can make up any bullshit in order to invade your nation.

The thing that peeved me the most is that he's using a rumor to invade. Hell, if I were in Armenian that just got his house burned down in war I'd say the Turks are up to something now.

And also, people in areas that aren't being moved know what's going on. Wtf is with that?

Yeah, no kidding, thank god the US has never invaded another country based on a rumor. (Spanish-American War, Iraq)

As for the second part, people in the United States, Britain and Russia knew what was going on in Germany during WWII (i.e. Holocaust) and yet these nations were in some cases thousands of miles apart with very little communication. Word gets around, your genocide (and yes, displacing such a large population could be considered genocide since it is in effect an attempt to destroy their culture) will be discovered and it would make a pretty good reason to go to war, one of the best ones out there.

Yeah, no kidding, thank god the US has never invaded another country based on a rumor. (Spanish-American War, Iraq)

As for the second part, people in the United States, Britain and Russia knew what was going on in Germany during WWII (i.e. Holocaust) and yet these nations were in some cases thousands of miles apart with very little communication. Word gets around, your genocide (and yes, displacing such a large population could be considered genocide since it is in effect an attempt to destroy their culture) will be discovered and it would make a pretty good reason to go to war, one of the best ones out there.

I'm sure that Nazi Germany had more than 15% of it's populations with telephones and IIRC Germans had a time where they would allow men and women out of Germany before the Holocaust happened. And in early concentration camps, people were detained and not neccessarily killed. And how many times must I OOCly stress that it's not going to be a genocide? There won't be any ethnic cleansing, Armenians will still be Armenians. I determined that it's better to keep them alive and Armenian then to turn them into Turks. Who needs more Turks?

Tell me how it will spread if I'm moving people in one part of the nation and most likely moving the entire population of that location (the administrative district of Syunik) which is just wilderness and few methods of telecommunications and yet the people still know?

So yeah, in this earth if you hear "a friend of my neighbor's dog's uncle's owner's cousin's friend's mother's roomate from college in her sophomore year's said that Germany is killing French", would that be grounds to attack Germany? Using WWI + WWI as other things on your nation, I can make up any bullshit in order to invade your nation.

I have not declared anything ICly yet - and at this point, if he's only moved about 10,000 people so far, please don't make accusations. Wait until he's moved 500,000 people and pull up the trap on him for having abducted half a million people, because no one knows that he wants to abduct one million people.

As far as rumors, they all start small, but they will grow larger, and with 180 days to let it grow (6 months), that rumor will be very prominent.

Now to highlight your responses:

1) Plan is starting in the east.

2) Never stated I was moving 1 million at a time and never stated anything about humanely travelling now did I? How will they know what is going on in trucks that are closed up, moving to and from Armenia to bring more and more supplies? The Armenian populace knows that the Yellow asses forced the Balkan Union to rebuild their own nation.

3) Didn't feel like reading, so I'll just say "k"

4) You stated that I must rebuild Armenia, and I am doing so by moving trucks in and out. While the rebuilding is going on, unloaded lumber will be used. If you find it suspicious that I am unloading lumber, then I will call it a godmod. Surely, the trucks will have to move in and out of Armenia to unload more and more supplies. Are the supplies going to appear out of thin air? No, they aren't. I'm following your rules, big bad China.

5) For the last fucking time, there is not going to be a genocide. Any claims that I will have a genocide will be ignored.

As I'm tired right now and in no mood to really post, I'll leave it at this.

Around 750,000 Armenians, leaving Yerevan and another 1.25M still in Armenia. will be moved in 180 days, around 4200 Armenians a day. Trucks being used are 636in long x 100in wide x 142in tall, if I remember my area formula correctly that translates to 8967600 cubic inches or 747300 cubic feet. The floor of each truck will be ~442 sq feet, and by adding a second shelf as stated in my original post I would then be able to increase each truck into ~884 sq feet. Factoring in the occasional person over 5'11in, I'd say I could uncomfortably fit 600 people in each truck. As each truck is air conditioned, that would be less of a burden. Judging by my calculations at this 2:15AM, I would need ~7 trucks a day to complete my goal.

If I'm wrong, sue me.

At some times, I would use less trucks (as now, less populated areas) and more for cities.

(1=) Doesn't matter; you're eventually going to come west.

(2=) That's all the more incentive to stop you once this comes out, because the world will notice it; it's more a matter of whether people will care about it (like Rwanda, Sudan, Myanmar). And I can affirmatively state that I will do something about it once the time is right.

(4=) It's not that I suspect you are unloading timber - it's the fact that you have so much to unload. Have you considered that 747,300 cubic feet translates into 21,170 cubic metres of timber? But of course, you wouldn't load your trucks all of the way, because that's extra work, and humans don't weigh the same as wood. For that, you'd want to have the wood weigh about the same as the human load, so satellites wouldn't detect it. In that case, you have 600 people. An average mass of 100 kg per person, you'd have 60 metric tons - one log of timber weighs on average about 3-4 metric tons, so you're transporting perhaps 15-20 logs of timber. To unload one log of timber {53 feet long, that is} will require at least 10 people per log and consume 15 minutes at best. You have 10 people wasting 15 minutes for each log, and each truck has at best 15 logs. You've spent about 225 minutes of work moving the logs; and you have 7 trucks on average - so you've spent 1575 minutes of work moving those logs. Since you claim that you are not committing genocide, you wouldn't employ those Armenians to do your bidding and unload your truck, so you've got 7 10-man crews hauling this timber off the truck. Your crews would spend about 4 hours hauling timber before you could load your timber. The least amount of time I need to take a picture is 10 minutes using satellite - perhaps less. I will see the trucks unloading their lumber - "How nice of the Turks to give the Armenians lumber for reconstruction!" - and then take pictures of the 600 people being loaded onto the truck, which would take several minutes, because 600 people do make a huge crowd - "What on earth are the Turks doing loading the Armenians onto trucks? Maybe nothing." Punch that stuff in for 180 days, and we'll get the picture very quickly.

(5=) My point is not that you are or are not going to commit genocide - it's more the fact that you are going to have in excess of one million witnesses to this relocation event. Most of them are going to be Armenian, some will be discontented citizens of your own country, and fewer still would be foreigners completely. You can kill the excessively dissenting witnesses, and maybe detain another few, but what to do with the million witnesses to your relocation? Bribe them? Maybe, but they still know what you did, and there's evidence all around to support it. What are you going to do with the million displaced Armenians now that you've stolen them from their homes? The most obvious and simplest way is to execute "the Final Solution" - and we know where that leads. Any other alternative means we have witnesses, and that bodes poorly for you once we intervene to force you to put back those million displaced Armenian citizens (because they're not Turkish citizens, with or without that surrender of yours).

And people don't need phones and internet to communicate news quickly. The mouth is the best source for anything, and the words it speak will move fast enough on its own.

I apologize for this.
I must withdraw from SYAE as time constrains at the moment will not allow me to dedicate the proper amount of time to this RP as is deserved.

I havent even been able to really finish my factbook, so in depth RPing is not possible.

I would ask to have my nations held but it will be at least 15 days before I have any substantial free time, that will be for a short period as well.

So I thank you all for allowing me to join and I again apologize for taking nations that might have been taken by someone who could have remained longer.

If possible I will rejoin...with different nations when I am more certain about the stability of my free time.

Thank you.

I'm sure that Nazi Germany had more than 15% of it's populations with telephones and IIRC Germans had a time where they would allow men and women out of Germany before the Holocaust happened. And in early concentration camps, people were detained and not neccessarily killed. And how many times must I OOCly stress that it's not going to be a genocide? There won't be any ethnic cleansing, Armenians will still be Armenians. I determined that it's better to keep them alive and Armenian then to turn them into Turks. Who needs more Turks?

That's precisely what ethnic cleansing is - genocide is a more effective method of doing it. And forcing the Armenians to become Turks isn't going to make them like you any better.

oh well, dae pwnt me

*gives up*

oh well, dae pwnt me

*gives up*

I never said that you couldn't do it - I just meant to say that you can't do it and expect that no one will notice it; whether anyone does anything about it is their own will. In any case, we could use something lively to stir up some trouble after the nuke set-offs in Moscow and St. Petersburg.

I never said that you couldn't do it - I just meant to say that you can't do it and expect that no one will notice it; whether anyone does anything about it is their own will. In any case, we could use something lively to stir up some trouble after the nuke set-offs in Moscow and St. Petersburg.

There's a difference I feel between noticing it as soon as it happened in the case of New Kiwiland and noticing it a month in with the plan, when most likely I will have the referandum ready for the Armenian populace.

There's a difference I feel between noticing it as soon as it happened in the case of New Kiwiland and noticing it a month in with the plan, when most likely I will have the referandum ready for the Armenian populace.

I never said Kiwiland was right, but if you're banking on the naivety of your neighbors and my intelligence services to not notice the change over the next 6 months, you are clearly wrong in that respect. We will notice this well before your 180 days are over, because it is too much time to contemplate the full effect of this plan, and we do have satellites, logistics, and operational intelligence to help us notice the changes - if not fully confront the fact that Armenians are being forcefully removed from their country. And as I said, wait for your 500,000-people mark before I start clamoring.

I never said Kiwiland was right, but if you're banking on the naivety of your neighbors and my intelligence services to not notice the change over the next 6 months, you are clearly wrong in that respect. We will notice this well before your 180 days are over, because it is too much time to contemplate the full effect of this plan, and we do have satellites, logistics, and operational intelligence to help us notice the changes - if not fully confront the fact that Armenians are being forcefully removed from their country. And as I said, wait for your 500,000-people mark before I start clamoring.

As long as in one RPed day you don't go "HAY LOL LOOK AT DEM TURKS (when I prefer to be called Serbs...) THEYRE DOIN STUFF IN ARMENIA WITH TRUCKS AND WOOD LOL WE DIDNT TELL THEM TO REBUILD DA NATION KILL THEM ALL LOL!!" Like I said, I'm ignoring any military action against my nation in this case. If Kiwiland already suspects I'm moving them and decides to invade, it's just him wasting his time. If he waits until I have around 600,000 Armenians in Turkey, then that's a different story.

But also, don't be surprised when I pull out my referandum before your 500,000 mark as planned. I have it planned to start being distributed in Yerevan at day 15. Give it a month with options:

Balkan-Armenian relations return to pre-war status. Borders closed, all trade ceased. Armenian access to seaports is closed
Armenia becomes a state in the Balkan Union, Armenia given seaports, Armenian unemployment lowered

I don't know what they'd nation would pick, but I'd pick the one which benefit the Armenian populace. :P

As long as in one RPed day you don't go "HAY LOL LOOK AT DEM TURKS (when I prefer to be called Serbs...) THEYRE DOIN STUFF IN ARMENIA WITH TRUCKS AND WOOD LOL WE DIDNT TELL THEM TO REBUILD DA NATION KILL THEM ALL LOL!!" Like I said, I'm ignoring any military action against my nation in this case. If Kiwiland already suspects I'm moving them and decides to invade, it's just him wasting his time. If he waits until I have around 600,000 Armenians in Turkey, then that's a different story.

But also, don't be surprised when I pull out my referandum before your 500,000 mark as planned. I have it planned to start being distributed in Yerevan at day 15. Give it a month with options:

Balkan-Armenian relations return to pre-war status. Borders closed, all trade ceased. Armenian access to seaports is closed
Armenia becomes a state in the Balkan Union, Armenia given seaports, Armenian unemployment lowered

I don't know what they'd nation would pick, but I'd pick the one which benefit the Armenian populace. :P

Once the Armenians know that you're shuttling their people from their homes, I think that they'd go with the moral high ground. In my opinion, the shuttling of people is absolutely unnecessary, but it makes a great plot. And besides that, once I "discover" the plot, it gives me every incentive to intervene militarily.

And not to imply anything extreme, but my professor is a completely incensed Armenian who makes his habit to ignore all things Turkish and when all else fails begins a 15 minute rant about the prejudices and the atrocities caused by the Turks during the 1923 genocide. No matter what you may think, 1923 marks a dark time for the Armenian people, something that puts a huge stop in any cooperation with Turkey, which both fails to acknowledge the events as "genuine genocide" and fails to make any sincere effort to rectify past events - something mimicked by Japan in East Asia as well. Cultural tensions are still present, and they'll be more present especially as most of the "Turk" connotations are intentionally used to reflect that it isn't necessarily the Serbs, the Albanians, and the Croats they happen to interact with, but rather the Turks - and that's going to be your greatest stumbling block, especially if your capital is now situated in Istanbul/Constantinople/Byzantium.

The "better" choice would be independence than forced friendship that isn't reciprocated.

I apologize for this.
I must withdraw from SYAE as time constrains at the moment will not allow me to dedicate the proper amount of time to this RP as is deserved.

I havent even been able to really finish my factbook, so in depth RPing is not possible.

I would ask to have my nations held but it will be at least 15 days before I have any substantial free time, that will be for a short period as well.

So I thank you all for allowing me to join and I again apologize for taking nations that might have been taken by someone who could have remained longer.

If possible I will rejoin...with different nations when I am more certain about the stability of my free time.

Thank you.

Sorry to see you go. We need to do something good.

Once the Armenians know that you're shuttling their people from their homes, I think that they'd go with the moral high ground. In my opinion, the shuttling of people is absolutely unnecessary, but it makes a great plot. And besides that, once I "discover" the plot, it gives me every incentive to intervene militarily.

And not to imply anything extreme, but my professor is a completely incensed Armenian who makes his habit to ignore all things Turkish and when all else fails begins a 15 minute rant about the prejudices and the atrocities caused by the Turks during the 1923 genocide. No matter what you may think, 1923 marks a dark time for the Armenian people, something that puts a huge stop in any cooperation with Turkey, which both fails to acknowledge the events as "genuine genocide" and fails to make any sincere effort to rectify past events - something mimicked by Japan in East Asia as well. Cultural tensions are still present, and they'll be more present especially as most of the "Turk" connotations are intentionally used to reflect that it isn't necessarily the Serbs, the Albanians, and the Croats they happen to interact with, but rather the Turks - and that's going to be your greatest stumbling block, especially if your capital is now situated in Istanbul/Constantinople/Byzantium.

The "better" choice would be independence than forced friendship that isn't reciprocated.

Who says the Armenians will ever know? *godmoddish giggle*

Also, I was under the impression that the Armenian Genocide was in 1915 to 1917, and the Greek Genocide ended in 1923. My history teacher presumably bats for the other team if you catch my drift if we really need to discuss our teachers. If we really need to play the whole "they hate each other" thing, it seems awkward that China and Korea would ever be the slightest of friends with Japan, which seems to be occuring now. IIRC from my Korean friend, he and his family (especially his grandfather) hated all Japanese people, and he told me that his entire nation hates Japan. So if Japan and China/Korea can be allied in this Earth, why can't Armenia and Turkey be allied?

Who says the Armenians will ever know? *godmoddish giggle*

Also, I was under the impression that the Armenian Genocide was in 1915 to 1917, and the Greek Genocide ended in 1923. My history teacher presumably bats for the other team if you catch my drift if we really need to discuss our teachers. If we really need to play the whole "they hate each other" thing, it seems awkward that China and Korea would ever be the slightest of friends with Japan, which seems to be occuring now. IIRC from my Korean friend, he and his family (especially his grandfather) hated all Japanese people, and he told me that his entire nation hates Japan. So if Japan and China/Korea can be allied in this Earth, why can't Armenia and Turkey be allied?

Jared makes a good point - what happened in RL might not have necessarily happened in this Earth.

But, to make for this alternate Armenia-Turkey history, I think that Jared should spend time on making up a complete alternate history for his nation that explains why Armenia and Turkey aren't as hostile to each other as they are in RL. As long as it isn't too outlandish....you can add it in in History of SYAE.

On another note for History of SYAE.....are we saying that WWI and WWII happened? What about the Cold War? Obviously if they did, there would be a few things different about them, or are we going to just scrap them?

WWI and WWII happened, the Cold War happened, pretty much everything that happened in RL happened in SYAE at least on an international scale, if you are going to write and alternate history it must conform to what happened in reality. My nation for instance, I didn't go into very much detail in my alternate history, but here's what happened, my "nation" (My nation probably has more in common with say the United Kingdom or Soviet Union, all my member nations are technically independent.) was formed as a result of the resurgence of communism in Russia as a sort of defensive pact and evolved into what it is today.

On another note for History of SYAE.....are we saying that WWI and WWII happened? What about the Cold War? Obviously if they did, there would be a few things different about them, or are we going to just scrap them?

I'll let you guys worry about Jared and his Aremenian Problem.

But on the idea of a history, I beleive DaeHan has a thread or something. Go argue about the history there. I personally beleive we did have a Cold War and WWII, maybe no WWI.

The thing that peeved me the most is that he's using a rumor to invade. Hell, if I were in Armenian that just got his house burned down in war I'd say the Turks are up to something now.

And also, people in areas that aren't being moved know what's going on. Wtf is with that?

Hey, you're overreacting. I haven't invaded yet. Who knows, I might not even invade: all I am doing now is preparing in case the rumours we received were true. Hence why my intelligence people are working on confirming what your actions are in Armenia.

Read my post again if you're still unclear.

There's a difference I feel between noticing it as soon as it happened in the case of New Kiwiland and noticing it a month in with the plan, when most likely I will have the referandum ready for the Armenian populace.

Sorry, take my reactions to be on about day 10 of your plan (mostly I was just bored so I thought I might as well type something up).

But its hardly likely that it'll take a month before I'd start noticing. Not that I'm officially aware of your actions in Armenia now, either.

Who says the Armenians will ever know? *godmoddish giggle*

Also, I was under the impression that the Armenian Genocide was in 1915 to 1917, and the Greek Genocide ended in 1923. My history teacher presumably bats for the other team if you catch my drift if we really need to discuss our teachers. If we really need to play the whole "they hate each other" thing, it seems awkward that China and Korea would ever be the slightest of friends with Japan, which seems to be occuring now. IIRC from my Korean friend, he and his family (especially his grandfather) hated all Japanese people, and he told me that his entire nation hates Japan. So if Japan and China/Korea can be allied in this Earth, why can't Armenia and Turkey be allied?

to put this into a perspective, I don't view of the entente between Han and Japan as an "alliance" - more so a cooperative venture. The principal reason why most people hate Japan is because of their imperialist history during and following the Meiji Restoration. Korea never became a colony and Japanese foothold in Asia - they turned instead to Siberia, with Imperial "permission" (probably means nothing in retrospect, but it does signify some relative nonchalance towards their activities).

The difference therefore is that the Japanese imperialist history and forced annexation of Korea and much of Asia never truly occured. If you really want to know, I've got my personal prejudices against Japan - if you speak the word Dokdo, you'll probably get a good dose of words from any "good" Korean - maybe even more if you mention 'Takeshima'; the nature of Japan's whitewashing its historical perspective to portray their country as exclusively the "victim" in the war; the whitewashing and continued unacknowledgement of the Japanese military brothels and comfort women; for a while, Koizumi's unadulterated visits to the Yakisuni Shrine. You give me a reason, I'll argue about how Japan doesn't fit with "modern" times; but so far, Japan has not angered me in this timeline.

As for Armenia and Turkey, you have acknowledged that the Armenian genocide did occur (1915-1917; I was thinking about another Turkish event - Ataturk's ascension through 1922 and 1923). In any case, you have to try to work with the history of Armenians being slaughtered by Turks under the Ottoman Empire. A very good step would be a sincere apology and recognition of what really happened - not a whitewashing apology that is typical of Japanese foreign politics since the 1970's.

And I've got to go, but just wanted to clarify this point. And do please use the history thread!!!

to put this into a perspective, I don't view of the entente between Han and Japan as an "alliance" - more so a cooperative venture. The principal reason why most people hate Japan is because of their imperialist history during and following the Meiji Restoration. Korea never became a colony and Japanese foothold in Asia - they turned instead to Siberia, with Imperial "permission" (probably means nothing in retrospect, but it does signify some relative nonchalance towards their activities).

The difference therefore is that the Japanese imperialist history and forced annexation of Korea and much of Asia never truly occured. If you really want to know, I've got my personal prejudices against Japan - if you speak the word Dokdo, you'll probably get a good dose of words from any "good" Korean - maybe even more if you mention 'Takeshima'; the nature of Japan's whitewashing its historical perspective to portray their country as exclusively the "victim" in the war; the whitewashing and continued unacknowledgement of the Japanese military brothels and comfort women; for a while, Koizumi's unadulterated visits to the Yakisuni Shrine. You give me a reason, I'll argue about how Japan doesn't fit with "modern" times; but so far, Japan has not angered me in this timeline.

As for Armenia and Turkey, you have acknowledged that the Armenian genocide did occur (1915-1917; I was thinking about another Turkish event - Ataturk's ascension through 1922 and 1923). In any case, you have to try to work with the history of Armenians being slaughtered by Turks under the Ottoman Empire. A very good step would be a sincere apology and recognition of what really happened - not a whitewashing apology that is typical of Japanese foreign politics since the 1970's.

And I've got to go, but just wanted to clarify this point. And do please use the history thread!!!

Personally, I love the Japanese history. Being a European, I'm fascinated by it. Most Asian history bores me, until Japan starts kicking ass and taking names. Koreans, Manchurians, Chinese-all fell to the grand Japanese.

My nation put out a message stating how they 'acknowledge' the Armenian 'Genocide', which in this history was on a much smaller scale. Most Armenians were able to get out, yet around 250,000 were killed. We acknowledged it, and will give Armenia the option to return to the shithole nation it was (Armenia is a shithole nation now, you can not doubt that) and have Azeri-Armenian/Balkan-Armenian borders shut off and the roads into MEC/Georgia be crappy, or join the Balkan Union and receive employment, seaports, better roads, ability to travel into Azerbaijan, cheaper oil, and a much better life style.

Balkan-Azeri relations have always been swell, perhaps Azerbaijan will have a referandum soon. :P

Personally, I love the Japanese history. Being a European, I'm fascinated by it. Most Asian history bores me, until Japan starts kicking ass and taking names. Koreans, Manchurians, Chinese-all fell to the grand Japanese.

My nation put out a message stating how they 'acknowledge' the Armenian 'Genocide', which in this history was on a much smaller scale. Most Armenians were able to get out, yet around 250,000 were killed. We acknowledged it, and will give Armenia the option to return to the shithole nation it was (Armenia is a shithole nation now, you can not doubt that) and have Azeri-Armenian/Balkan-Armenian borders shut off and the roads into MEC/Georgia be crappy, or join the Balkan Union and receive employment, seaports, better roads, ability to travel into Azerbaijan, cheaper oil, and a much better life style.

Balkan-Azeri relations have always been swell, perhaps Azerbaijan will have a referandum soon. :P

Do it and you'll bring the weight of the world down on you again.

For those of who don't know, and have been reading my Factbook, a LAV is a Lightly Armored Vehicle that usually has a powerful gun. For reference look at the American Stryker. It'll be like that except bigger, and probably faster.

I prefer the unadulterated version of Japanese history, just as I am certain the Armenians would prefer their own unadulterated version of their history. Besides, if you're interested in Japanese history, read up on the Toyotemi invasions of Korea and the previous four centuries of Wakei piracy. But this is the last time I'll speak of this, since RL Japanese history has very little effect on this RP in general.

As far as Azerbaijani relations - as long as you don't invade and occupy their country - i.e. your "referendum" in Armenia - there shouldn't be serious problems. Get them to agree first, and maybe you'll avoid the complications.

People should really post their histories in the History Thread. This makes it easier for us to figure out the whole lay of History for SYAE.

I prefer the unadulterated version of Japanese history, just as I am certain the Armenians would prefer their own unadulterated version of their history. Besides, if you're interested in Japanese history, read up on the Toyotemi invasions of Korea and the previous four centuries of Wakei piracy. But this is the last time I'll speak of this, since RL Japanese history has very little effect on this RP in general.

As far as Azerbaijani relations - as long as you don't invade and occupy their country - i.e. your "referendum" in Armenia - there shouldn't be serious problems. Get them to agree first, and maybe you'll avoid the complications.

Let's not get into the bad things China has done and leave it there, mmk?

Let's not get into the bad things China has done and leave it there, mmk?

Oh, every country has their bad spots. And I'm not Chinese. And I'm not trying to say that Japan isn't good. And as I've said, this is the last thing I'll say about it, because I get really hot when talking about this stuff - especially about the Japanese governments inclinations.

:rolleyes: I hope I don't have to bump this thread.....I mean, with everyone as active as they are, surely a bump would be the last thing we need...:rolleyes:

Do it and you'll bring the weight of the world down on you again.

So by handing out fliers to the Azeri public asking if they want to be integrated into the Balkan Union fairly is a bad thing? Jesus.

As far as Azerbaijani relations - as long as you don't invade and occupy their country - i.e. your "referendum" in Armenia - there shouldn't be serious problems. Get them to agree first, and maybe you'll avoid the complications.

...my referandum in Armenia hasn't begun yet.

...my referandum in Armenia hasn't begun yet.

And once word gets around about you shuttling Armenians away, bad things will happen.

And once word gets around about you shuttling Armenians away, bad things will happen.

Alright, but you stated that I already had my referandum in Armenia when I didn't.

I am new to this, but what nation's are open for Calizorinstan to claim, if the United States, Mexico, Canada,and Gutamala are unclaime, Calizorinstan claims those nations.

Calizorinstan, first off, that claim is way too big, second, all those nations except Canada are already claimed and Canada is going to be invaded by America shortly. There's a list on the first page of all the claimed nations, and a map, although the map is quite old as the map maker is on Spring Break, it doesn't give a very good indication about what the claims are in the America's, but for Eurasia and Africa the map is pretty accurate.

Calizorinstan, first off, that claim is way too big, second, all those nations except Canada are already claimed and Canada is going to be invaded by America shortly. There's a list on the first page of all the claimed nations, and a map, although the map is quite old as the map maker is on Spring Break, it doesn't give a very good indication about what the claims are in the America's, but for Eurasia and Africa the map is pretty accurate.

Canada hasn't been invaded yet: I don't see why he can't claim it, since it's still sovereign and unclaimed territory.

Allright, we claim Canada then, sorry for making a claim to big, I am new at the Earth SYAE stuff, thanks for the advice.

Allright, we claim Canada then, sorry for making a claim to big, I am new at the Earth SYAE stuff, thanks for the advice.

Ok, I'm going to do this once. For all intents and purposes you are Canada, you have it's military, it's economy, and it's population. Everything else you decide. If want Canada to be a Facist Dictatorship, go ahead, you won't make any friends but hey you are Facist Dictatorship. You want to research new military vehicles, go ahead. Nothing's stopping you a part from you GDP and defense budget.

I am only doing this because I get the feeling that you are going to use your NS Nation's Military and Population.

Ok, thank you, I am going to make Canada a Benvolent Dictatroship then, thanks for the advice Granate. I now know how to do this.

Ok, thank you, I am going to make Canada a Benvolent Dictatroship then, thanks for the advice Granate. I now know how to do this.

Good, now the next logical step is too make a Factbook. Now I don't have time to explain what's needed in a Factbook or what you should have in it. So I am going to give you the link to mine and let you work from there.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=518901

Good, now the next logical step is too make a Factbook. Now I don't have time to explain what's needed in a Factbook or what you should have in it. So I am going to give you the link to mine and let you work from there.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=518901

Not to nitpick, but a curious thought....

It says in your factbook that you import over 2 million barrles of oil per day. If you didn't, obviously it would mean an economic collapse if the oil wasn't supplied before emergency reserves ran out.

So who are you importing from?

Not to nitpick, but a curious thought....

It says in your factbook that you import over 2 million barrles of oil per day. If you didn't, obviously it would mean an economic collapse if the oil wasn't supplied before emergency reserves ran out.

So who are you importing from?

Does everyone on this Earth have Oil deals? No, so I am just saying what I import and what I make myself. If you want to be all picky about it and suddenly run me down my throat about not importing oil and shit, go ahead. It won't do you any good.

Does everyone on this Earth have Oil deals? No, so I am just saying what I import and what I make myself. If you want to be all picky about it and suddenly run me down my throat about not importing oil and shit, go ahead. It won't do you any good.

[Shameless Promotion]

I offer low, low deals...

[/Shameless Promotion]

Alright, time for another of my excuse for my less than stellar activity level this past week.

Obviously this is Easter weekend, a lot of my classes had projects and tests due today so that we could "enjoy" (More like recover from so much fucking work being due at once.) our four day weekend. In an effort to better my RPing abilities on SYAE I have been doing a lot of work on my military, if you look at my factbook you will notice that it is little more than numbers, to remedy this I have created new divisions for my Army, which will likely be the hardest, and I will work on the Air Force as soon as I am done with the Army. So far I have... 25 divisions, of which 19 are Infantry and 7 are armored. I know, I should have more than just those two, such as support elements, but i'd need to make about 75 more divisions to make that work and well, that's a lot of work. The Infantry Divisions are then broken down as follows: Mechanized (8), Light (6), Airborne (1), and Mountain (4) with Light Infantry being most static forces and Mechanized being my offensive punch in coordination with the airborne and Mountain Infantry being my "elite" forces so to say, however unlike the US 10th Mountain these guys are truly trained for mountain combat as their specialty, not any and all climates like the 10th Mountain. (so glad I didn't join the 10th Mountain, 9 weeks of training in a Canadian winter followed by 9 weeks of training in an Australian summer and all this after 9 weeks of basic? No thanks.) My armored divisions still have a large portion of Infantry troops the difference is that they are more balanced than Mechanized Infantry and the Infantry is in support of the Armored where the armor is meant to support the Infantry in a Mechanized division. It's a little hard to explain but hopefully when I finally get it posted it will make more sense. The Air Force should be a lot easier because I won't be having to deal with such a large variety of unit types, it will just be a Wing contains X number of X craft, a flight this many, so on and so forth.

I'd like to stress that I have added the History of SYAE thread to the first post and encourage everyone to visit that page and inform Dae of your nation's history so it can be added to time line. I don't think there are any rules saying that you HAVE to RP in order to have fun with this thing, debating about history can be just as much fun for some people.


Calizorinstan, your claim is approved, what would you like your nation to be called?

Just wondering, have we thought about a WTO (or sth) thread where we can have people importing oil and other resources that their (sometimes much inflated) economies would need?

On second thought, anything other than oil would be far too complicated......

I think some other things could be accomplished there too, like arms deals, seems like in the general IC thread requests for sales can get lost in all the excitement of the Jaredcohenia vs. everyone debate about the meaning on the word genocide and Daehanjeiguk's guides to being a better RPer. So, Newer Kiwiland, if you want to create a thread go ahead, I will put a link to it in the front page here, but you'll be responsible for updating the first post of that thread with anything that needs to be put there. ;)

I would like it to be called: The United States of Canada.
I am kindof busy for making a factbook, with Easter weekend and all, do you mind if I could do it when I have time to do it?

Does everyone on this Earth have Oil deals? No, so I am just saying what I import and what I make myself. If you want to be all picky about it and suddenly run me down my throat about not importing oil and shit, go ahead. It won't do you any good.

I'm just saying that it would be more realistic if you were actually importing oil and stuff. Of course, unlike some other Earths (i.e. E2) we aren't so into pickiness and stuff, so it's fine.

However, I do offer good oil deals too....I have about 3 million unused barrels per day to export.

I'm just saying that it would be more realistic if you were actually importing oil and stuff. Of course, unlike some other Earths (i.e. E2) we aren't so into pickiness and stuff, so it's fine.

However, I do offer good oil deals too....I have about 3 million unused barrels per day to export.

I need about 3 million. Meh.

Ok on the War in the Middle East. Jared, why wouldn't I be let into the Mediterranean Sea? I am helping one of his Friends/Allies in the UASR. I have also never done anything against them, apart from the Democratic Alliance but that shouldn't have a large consequence. Spain's current military includes quite a bit of German Equipment, namely the Leopard 2 and Eurofighter Typhoon, which only me and Maryan, as he and me are the only ones that can produce it cause France is kinda... dead, can manufacture it.

Spain's current military includes quite a bit of German Equipment, namely the Leopard 2 and Eurofighter Typhoon, which only me and Maryan, as he and me are the only ones that can produce it cause France is kinda... dead, can manufacture it.

[OOC: Spain indigenously produces both. In fact, ~80% of the Leopard 2E is Spanish designed. The Eurofighter is not German - it was designed by various countries, and produced by various countries, including Spain. Spain also indigenously produces the Eurocopter Tiger.]

[OOC: Spain indigenously produces both. In fact, ~80% of the Leopard 2E is Spanish designed. The Eurofighter is not German - it was designed by various countries, and produced by various countries, including Spain. Spain also indigenously produces the Eurocopter Tiger.]

Yes. But me and Kopparbergs, the guy who has Spain and Portugal, have agreed to some things. Namely the production of the Eurofighter and the Leopard 2. He has agreed not to produce them. I never mentioned the Tiger and I would hope he would produce it.

That sort of ruins the purpose of the Leopard 2E, then. :eek: But, whatever, that was his decision.

That sort of ruins the purpose of the Leopard 2E, then. :eek: But, whatever, that was his decision.

Quite.

I think some other things could be accomplished there too, like arms deals, seems like in the general IC thread requests for sales can get lost in all the excitement of the Jaredcohenia vs. everyone debate about the meaning on the word genocide and Daehanjeiguk's guides to being a better RPer. So, Newer Kiwiland, if you want to create a thread go ahead, I will put a link to it in the front page here, but you'll be responsible for updating the first post of that thread with anything that needs to be put there. ;)


Oh no! Did I dug my grave :eek:


....Fine, I'll create one once I'm back from 300 :p

....Fine, I'll cretre one once I'm back from 300 :p

I saw it opening night. :p

I saw it opening night. :p

Any good?

I honestly didn't expect to be rung up by a bunch of high school friends for this movie on the first day of holiday.....

Any good?

I honestly didn't expect to be rung up by a bunch of high school friends for this movie on the first day of holiday.....

Just go and decide for yourself.

Ok on the War in the Middle East. Jared, why wouldn't I be let into the Mediterranean Sea? I am helping one of his Friends/Allies in the UASR. I have also never done anything against them, apart from the Democratic Alliance but that shouldn't have a large consequence. Spain's current military includes quite a bit of German Equipment, namely the Leopard 2 and Eurofighter Typhoon, which only me and Maryan, as he and me are the only ones that can produce it cause France is kinda... dead, can manufacture it.

Get CCPS permission before you barge your navy into his waters. Zing.

Get CCPS permission before you barge your navy into his waters. Zing.

Kinda hard when he is gone, isn't it? Also there is no reason for him to Blockade the Sea.

Kinda hard when he is gone, isn't it? Also there is no reason for him to Blockade the Sea.

It's strange, both Kiwiland and Dae have claimed that Cripteria has allowed them military access when he's away, too.

It's strange, both Kiwiland and Dae have claimed that Cripteria has allowed them military access when he's away, too.

Cripteria hasn't made a single IC post. So his case can be pretty much nulled. Kopparbergs on the other hand has made IC Posts.