NationStates Jolt Archive

But the Union could care less about the Infinite Empire's propagandistic statements, as I based the Union off the RL states that exist in the region, and we have conquered many times over by imperial powers that are as powerful as the Infinite Empire. And they can kill as many Southeast Asians as they like: they'll tire of it and eventually pressure will make them snap.

Obviously then you do not understand the Infinite Empire. We seek only to expand our superior government and citizenship to others we deem worthy. If you were ever invaded by us it would be as an act of retribution - and then no one would survive to apply pressure. Ironically it was only SF who prevented the complete anihilation of Torontia only to end up at the end of our revenge. We do not tire of eradicating our enemies. And overkill is not expensive - its sport.

And then someone also obviously does not understand human nature. And it is not me. I don't claim my state to be perfect. And ICly SEA is not as arrogant and stuck up as yours, and it seems to be claiming it as perfect.

I understand human nature but ICly it is true - the Empire does lean on the arrogant side - but only from an outside perspection. Imperial law and government has existed prosperously for the past 900 years. Hence we view foreigners as not so much inferior as just not worth the effort - that is unless they prove themselves. Yallak is a balanced force. It respects those who would hunt their enemies to extintion and yet holds in high regard those who aid the diminshed or weak. (thats why you'll never know what my characters will do - they may carpet bomb a civilan town or they may send it supplies, all depending on the circumstances).

SEA, just FYI, a couple things. One, I believe the adjective form of "McKagan" is just "McKagan," not "McKaganese." And secondly, as the de facto head of the SWC, I'm going to have to ask that you please refrain from ICly throwing the SWC's name around. We are active, we watch I.I.; we act on what we wish, and we would prefer that you not risk getting us unnecessarily involved in certain conflicts by tossing our name around like a cheap party favor. Informing me or another member of a potential interest in a conflict via TG is one thing; using our name as a veiled threat in global communiques is entirely different.

Amestria does not have a high opinion of the SWC's tactics. Amestria also has at present poor relations with some of its members. It has recently come to see the SWC as a possible threat due to some of its member’s interference in Torontia... though they are not public with such views...

However these views are the result of recent events and could change (unlikely)...

Except none of the SWC members have publicly announced their support for the insurgents, so Amestria's relations with us shouldn't be all that bad. I can see some souring from our initial post-collapse land claims, but not from the insurgency. In fact, I've personally not said anything publicly ICly to you, or to anyone else, regarding Torontia since we pulled out.

And Yallak, Saharistan no longer exists. He was DEATed for inactivity a long time ago, and almost all of the puppets he's created since then have been too.

DMG, you need to revise your convoy post for the following reasons...

1) An EMP bomb just hit Seattle (the only port facilities SF controls, he just has not RPed the bombs hitting yet, it would have hit before the DMG passed the blockade)

2) Yallak (or perhaps Amestria) is going to bomb the SF harbors in Seattle before your ships arrive


And I would like to remind everyone else that the current conflict has been been going on for roughly an hour and that the mobilization of armies/fleets takes days, not to meantion arrival times...

As much as everyone would like to jump in you cannot just show up...

Hal, with the word 'Imperium' in your official prefix, it wouldn't take a half a brain cell for you to suspect the SWC. Plus, with your men withdrawing, and your reputation for being a good rper and you have a great military forces, this backs it up. Even though they cannot prove that you are involved.

1) An EMP bomb just hit Seattle (the only port facilities SF controls, he just has not RPed the bombs hitting yet, it would have hit before the DMG passed the blockade)

If the only port facilities I have are in Seattle, then the only ones you have are in Los Angeles which has 5 extrememly large freighters sunk in it, rendering it fairly blocked. So now by logic, neither you nor I have useable port facilities.

Hal is right, Amestria/Yallak has NO REASON AT ALL to have anything against the SWC or its member nations. To say so would be a godmod, since we've had NO meetings and it would be too convienent to have everyone in a government already against a nation...

I just had a thought while I was in the shower. I have a real problem with people getting involved in closed RPs who aren't initially involved or have the consent of the "main combatants" in a war thread. I think my getting involved in this RP without being sure of Yallak's consent or Amestria's consent isn't a very good idea.

So, if you all wouldn't mind, I'd rather retcon my involvement in this RP.

If you've got treaties with a member of the RP, there's no reason you shouldn't be involved.

If we're going to be strict on that, then Amestria and Yallak shouldn't be here, since they had nothing to do with the Torontian player up until like 2 days before this conflict started.

If we're going to be strict on that, then Amestria and Yallak shouldn't be here, since they had nothing to do with the Torontian player up until like 2 days before this conflict started.

If we were really strict, all Amestrian involvement would have been retconned and Torontia would have become another rebuilt SWC state, no troubles at all.:p

And Sarz, why don't you just ask Yallak and Amestria about you getting involved? I think Saint Fedski having a larger protector state such as yourself would make for a more interesting possible conflict than just watching as Yallak and Amestria crush Saint Fedski with sheer numbers. But we'll wait and see what Yallak/Amestria say.

If Amestria and Yallak refuse to allow Saint Fedski's allies in on this simply so they will maintain numerical superiority on him; I refuse to continue with this RP. It's getting repetitive with nothing more than mass missile attacks on both sides. Just a Sarzonian fleet being there regardless of if Sarz is going to be active in the RP would make it much more interesting than what it is now.

Then again... I own the Torontian account...

Also, just to point out, a majority of the combatants DO want Sarz here.

If we're going to be strict on that, then Amestria and Yallak shouldn't be here, since they had nothing to do with the Torontian player up until like 2 days before this conflict started.

It was because of Yallak that this situation ever started in the first place, after all it was they who defeated Tanakis.

I just had a thought while I was in the shower. I have a real problem with people getting involved in closed RPs who aren't initially involved or have the consent of the "main combatants" in a war thread. I think my getting involved in this RP without being sure of Yallak's consent or Amestria's consent isn't a very good idea.

So, if you all wouldn't mind, I'd rather retcon my involvement in this RP.
And strain diplomatic relations with an ally? Well, if Yallak's characters are upset over the numerical superiority, they might as well drag in their own allies. Because my characters going to be tossing in as many naval powers as I can find, like Isselmere-Nieland, and perhaps toss in a Gholgoth power or two.

It was because of Yallak that this situation ever started in the first place, after all it was they who defeated Tanakis.

This conflict started because one day Yallak launched a few thousand missiles at Torontia and instead of staying and fighting the Torontian player just had Tanakis run away.

Unlike Halberdgardia and I, that was Yallaks first ENCOUTNER with Torontia.

This conflict started because one day Yallak launched a few thousand missiles at Torontia and instead of staying and fighting the Torontian player just had Tanakis run away.

It started because Torontia joined the Kraven-Xirnium War, the Yallakian missile assualt was a direct consequence of that mistake.

ICly Yallak has every right to be in Torontia, in fact it has the most right. Saint Fedski and Amestria being in Torontia, on the other hand, doesn't make much sense, but meh.. it all makes for a good story. ;)

Lets just clear up this argument now before it degrades into flaming shall we:

1. I have nothing against Sarz entering this RP - even given the fact he is making his best efforts to blow the crap out of me.

Hal is right, Amestria/Yallak has NO REASON AT ALL to have anything against the SWC or its member nations.

2. As i said earlier - i don't even know who they are, let alone my government ICly giving a crap.

3. Xirnium is correct. We are here because tanakis ran away during my attack, which came about because Torontia declared war on the Infinite Empire. (This was our third encounter with them - including the Stoddenian incident.)

4. What i do have a problem with is people arguing over pointless and misguided information.
But we'll wait and see what Yallak/Amestria say. So just stop already. Thats my rant, your turn Amestria.

If we were really strict, all Amestrian involvement would have been retconned and Torontia would have become another rebuilt SWC state, no troubles at all.:p

And Sarz, why don't you just ask Yallak and Amestria about you getting involved? I think Saint Fedski having a larger protector state such as yourself would make for a more interesting possible conflict than just watching as Yallak and Amestria crush Saint Fedski with sheer numbers. But we'll wait and see what Yallak/Amestria say.

Amestria has no objection to Sarz becoming involved, although as I have discussed with Sarz and as Sarz told me...

Their fleet will take ONE WEEK to arrive in Torontia, and the current conflict is still in first/second hour of fighting (S.F. at present is RPing slowly, which is why the conflict is progressing slowly).

By the time Sarz's forces arrive things in Torontia will be completely different... I also do not believe Mckagan should complain about the mass missile attacks being repetative, as those are being RPed between Amestria/Yallak and SF, not Mckagan...


Amestria got involved in Torontia for the following reasons:

1) Amestrian courts indicted Tanakis for human rights violations and murder and has since convicted him under International Common Law (when he threatened to kill all the homosexuals)

2) Amestria pledged to defend Stoddenia after Torontia threatened to invade and sent (Amestria sent 100,000 troops to that country).

3) Amestria sent only a small force for peacekeeping and hunting Tanakis, the degree of Amestrian control and the occupations objectives changed gradually, as the situation changed... a complex story of its own... (the idea that Amestria just came in and said "I'm in charge is totally untrue.")


Amestria IC is wary of the SWC for the following reasons:

1) Amestria believes Mckagan to be involved in terrorist activity against them in Torontia (no direct proof, but plenty of indirect evidence)... They also suspect him of shelthering Tanakis (but also have no proof).

2) Amestria is wary of Hal.'s attempts to take land and its connections to Mckagan...

3) Amestria does not know of Sarz's intentions and is wary of letting another country have a foothold in Torontia (and thus have a chance to inflict more violence and disorder)... remember that at the moment they are fighting a war and are ultra paranoid...

4) The SWC has done nothing to help Amestria help Torontia...

If the only port facilities I have are in Seattle, then the only ones you have are in Los Angeles which has 5 extrememly large freighters sunk in it, rendering it fairly blocked. So now by logic, neither you nor I have useable port facilities.

Amestria controls the entire Torontian coast minus Seattle, there are plenty of ports to use (not the least of which is South Vancouver where Kahanistan has unloaded its peacekeepers, the damage Red Tide did to its ports rebuilt).

And it is Port Angeles, not Los Angeles... Port Angeles is at present unusable because of oil fires, the destroyed convoy ships, and (more importantly) the Yallak/SF naval battle happening in the strait...

However the remaining Torontian coast line (and its many ports) are just fine and under Amestrian control...

But see, that's what I don't like.

Now that you just conveinently had your people "suspect" McKagan of doing all this, you're looking for evidence to support that.

Otherwise you'd be blind to it until I actually did something to warrant suspicion.

Amestria, one of the people in my nations biggest news corporations made a major presentation broadcasted internationally concerning your presence in Torontia.

It's going to be a MAJOR PR hit, imo.

Things that have happened which lead to Amestria suspecting Mckagan:

1. A Mckagan Destroyer was off the coast where the night raid occured, and refused to leave until escourted out...

2. A stealth bomber hit the beach during the said raid... Mckagan has airbases around Torontia...

3. Mckagan moved into BC without Amestrian/TPG/National Government (at the time SF and Amestria where trying to share power) premission and set up a military base...

4. When Mckagan left riots broke out and a region that had been peaceful was now beset with an insurgency...

5. Foreign weapons have been turning up in BC, and since Mckagan was openly bitter about having to leave... (note: Amestria has no idea who provided they bio-weapon at present and as Mckagan has never used a bio-agent in its history...)

6. Amestrian forces saw Tanakis jet take off in his escape from Idaho... Where did he go? Mckagan is close by...

7. Red Tide told Amestria that they lost a submarine although Amestria did not destroy it... Interesting...

Keep in mind Amestria's present relation with Mckagan is hostile indifference as Mckagan has not been overtly involved in Torontia since they pulled out...

But see, that's what I don't like.

Now that you just conveinently had your people "suspect" McKagan of doing all this, you're looking for evidence to support that.

Otherwise you'd be blind to it until I actually did something to warrant suspicion.

Conveniently. Yes thanks to you. Lets look at the facts.

McKagan occupies northern BC
McKagan leaves after a whole bunch of arguments with Amestria, destroying many facilities and leaving boobytraps.
Next thing – Terrorist groups spring up (heavily armed) in the areas that McKagan controlled.

Hmm whats not to suspect there. Icly if the terrorists were attacking Yallakian forces, that would be enough to warrant the extinction of your nation.

McKagan is not close by.

McKagan does not have airbases in the area.

Amestria, one of the people in my nations biggest news corporations made a major presentation broadcasted internationally concerning your presence in Torontia.

It's going to be a MAJOR PR hit, imo.

Send me a TG describing it...

McKagan is not close by.

McKagan does not have airbases in the area.

Close enough for Stealth activity... you told me so yourself... (groan) do I have to find the post... it was OOC in the origional thread and may have been deleted... sigh...

Send me a TG describing it...

It's in the IC thread at the bottom of one of the pages.

It was overlooked.

Close enough for Stealth activity... you told me so yourself... (groan) do I have to find the post... it was OOC in the origional thread and may have been deleted... sigh...

That whole stealth attack was stupid anyway. I brought that in because I thought it would turn into like an army against a small group.

Regardless, planes can be refueled in the air.

Just incase you missed it, it solves al the OOC problems about Amestria suspecting you:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10074368&postcount=525

Link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10071180&postcount=240)

FOX News is more accurate then that report...

Amestria has thrown more then 30 billion of its own money into reconstruction...

Also, there are over 3 million Amestrian/Yallak troops in Torontia....

For the record the Amestrian Public Broadcasting Corporation and the Amestrian Government would love to debate that idiot.

Dude that's TOTALLY the best Propaganda scheme EVER. It's all false (ish,) yet it ALL MAKES SENSE when its context is changed up a bit.

Admit it.

I'm a PR god.

:p

Also, just to add, when talking to McKagan, you'll get laughed at if you use 30 billion as a big number. If i'd had the information readily available when I made the post, I would have had the MCID PAY Lou that much just to make the report.

30 billion + Amestria is paying for the entire TPG and TPG military...

Anyway, yes that is good propoganda for the uninformed... Mckagan is not the only one to employ such methods...;)

True, i just did it more... direct? You've generally lied the whole thread (:p ), I just decided to give someone named Lou a show and let him talk shit about you.

Actually Amestria has been rather honest on everything (and to its own people, as Amestrian Law forbids propaganda disguised as journalism)... The only real untruths have been spoken through the Torontian Media, and they have been rare (more exaggerations).

As for Lou (how passive aggressive of you), any inspiration from Lou Dobbs?

As for Lou (how passive aggressive of you), any inspiration from Lou Dobbs?

Yes.

I love that guy. :p

The Lone Alliance, TG!

Amestria, we all have lied before, Jesus Christ.

And I said that, just the lies were small and expressed through the Torontian media only...

I might as well post this now... ahem

THIS IS A SEMI-CLOSED THREAD WHICH HAS GONE ON FOR OVER 80 PAGES
IF ANYONE ELSE JUMPS INTO THE RP WITHOUT RECIEVEING OOC PREMISSION THEY WILL BE IGNORED!

Southeast Asia:

I said I was okay with Czardas comming in, we had a talk several days ago...

This is about this being a closed RP. This is an RP between those currently involved, not anyone who just wants to jump in!!!

Amestria, I will remove you from my TG ignore list as soon as I'm in a better mood. Sorry that I overreacted - I have ADHD.

Lets try to stop this OOC fued before it makes everything ugily...

Good thing the RP is moving slowly at present or it would be hell...

Here's the deal: The reason I'm retconning any involvement with this RP is the fact that I feel like I've been dragged into a closed RP without the consent of all the nations involved in it. I ended up ignoring one of my more important RPs when several nations tried to barge in without my consent because their buddy was occupied and he'd lost the war.

This RP probably should be closed with a certain list of players on each side that all sides can agree upon. It is NOT a free for all where anyone can go in and wield their mega uber alliance of d00m.

Ok...Here's what I think. I think as long as nations are attempting to trade with Torontia (SF zone) that they should have some limited involvement. If those trading vessels are attacked, I believe said nation should be able to get involved, providing they RP the trade (otherwise I'd recieve god moded supplies). Czardas was one of the first I got intouch with BEFORE the first shots were fired, as was DMG. I contact Sarz afterwards. Madnestan, R. Dream and I forget who else were notified to RP their trading relation before the shots were fired.

From this moment on...only said nations have trade with SF in Torontia unless otherwise approved by Amestria, Yallak and TLA. SEA has been involved for quite a while, both ooc and secret IC so I must allow SEA to be involved.

^
What dude said.

Personally, i'm going to consider dropping the RP if it stays boring. McKagan and Halberdgardia can't get involved (officially) without some other nation giving us reason to, so eventually someone has to.

There's no reason, IMO, that people trading with SF can't get involved in protecting their convoys. There's no reason, IMO, th at SF can't have a few of his allies come in to help out. Let's face it, the RP doesn't have much left to kill. Who here doesn't want Sarz in? Didn't Amestria say he didn't care? Neither of the SWC nations care, SF sure as hell doesn't care.

Is Yallak being pissy or something?

(and to its own people, as Amestrian Law forbids propaganda disguised as journalism)

Oddly, that law is present in McKagan, too. But after the Johnson admistration took office, it's only enforced towards religious groups. Most other news organizations can talk about anything they want to, the MCID sometimes pays people off.

I'm actually thinking about a future RP where it's like SRN (anti-god, left wing) vs. FNS (jesus went to church on a dinosaur, right wing) hiring hitmen and stuff. Of course, it would kinda be preplanned because religion is heading towards empty FAST in McKagan.

Amestria, if it gets into a media war between our nations, do you want to do a new thread?

I agree with Sarzonia's latter point. I believe it would be beneficial to this RP if we all just put our heads together (as best as we can over the Internet, anyways) and clearly define two things:

1.) The list of nations that are allowed in this RP. There will be no exceptions to the rule after the list is established and confirmed by the participants; this RP will be completely closed to all but those nations.

2.) Sarzonia's status in this RP. All participants of this RP, particularly Yallak and Amestria, need to clearly state their approval or disapproval of Sarzonia's entrance into the RP. I believe Yallak has already said he doesn't mind Sarzonia participating, but (and correct me if I'm wrong here) I don't think Amestria has yet given a yea or nay.

As for the latter point, I have no problem letting Sarzonia in, primarily because, as I've said before, I think Saint Fedski having a powerful ally to counter Yallak's numerical superiority would make for a more interesting RP than just watching Yallak and Amestria crush Saint Fedski through sheer strength of numbers. But Yallak and Amestria's consent matters more, as they'll be the ones fighting him. Nevertheless, I vote yea.

I agree with Sarzonia's latter point. I believe it would be beneficial to this RP if we all just put our heads together (as best as we can over the Internet, anyways) and clearly define two things:


*head smacks monitor*


1.) The list of nations that are allowed in this RP. There will be no exceptions to the rule after the list is established and confirmed by the participants; this RP will be completely closed to all but those nations.

Now see, how do we describe this? Although only two SWC nations have been REALLY involved so far, you know how we are. HailandKill wanted to get involved but we never worked a way in for him, and we all know how Leafanistan likes to make an entrance into RP's... Could we allow the whole SWC, given if they want in? Also, what about people who look to trade with SF? Have them ship it to him, and HE has to RP getting it in?


2.) Sarzonia's status in this RP. All participants of this RP, particularly Yallak and Amestria, need to clearly state their approval or disapproval of Sarzonia's entrance into the RP. I believe Yallak has already said he doesn't mind Sarzonia participating, but (and correct me if I'm wrong here) I don't think Amestria has yet given a yea or nay.

So what, i got it backwards? :p


As for the latter point, I have no problem letting Sarzonia in, primarily because, as I've said before, I think Saint Fedski having a powerful ally to counter Yallak's numerical superiority would make for a more interesting RP than just watching Yallak and Amestria crush Saint Fedski through sheer strength of numbers. But Yallak and Amestria's consent matters more, as they'll be the ones fighting him. Nevertheless, I vote yea.

Word.

If Mckagan and Hal. are at present "bored" then I suggest they start a closed spinoff about the war in Idaho and the IM invasion... That has plenty of oppertunity to be fun and it will allow Mckagan to use Tanakis and RP some sizable rebels...

On the subject of any media war, yes, if we decide to RP a media war over the Torontian occupation then it should have its own thread...


Now onto Sarz. Amestria votes yea to Sarz.'s convoy delivering supplies to SF controled Torontia... (gives the conflict an added diminsion, RL conflicts are that complex, for example the British deliver supplies to the Confederates during the civil war and the U.S. trying to stay out of war with them over it...)

Amestria votes nay on Sarz. militarly jumping in without a sufficient reason.

What would be a sufficient reason:

1) We attack his convoy.

2) We expand the war and attack SF's home nation's...

I believe that is both reasonable and realistic...

Is Yallak being pissy or something?

At the time - yes i was annoyed that people were arguing over assumptions of what me and Amestria thought. But no - i have nothing against Sarz's convoy or his governments messages - in fact i have been waiting for his reply in the peace talk thread!

I have no problem letting Sarzonia in, primarily because, as I've said before, I think Saint Fedski having a powerful ally to counter Yallak's numerical superiority would make for a more interesting RP than just watching Yallak and Amestria crush Saint Fedski through sheer strength of numbers. But Yallak and Amestria's consent matters more, as they'll be the ones fighting him. Nevertheless, I vote yea.
I'm with Hal. Besides, I don't need to look forward to the ISN emerging triumphant*. It has proved itself all too many times already. What I am looking forward to, is the ISA (Incorporated Sarzonian Army) steamrolling the Amestrians, as Sarz has done a mighty fine job making reforms to his ground forces after Operation Hangman and Branywn, both infamous battles in the Operation Hellfire saga. I'm in this RP people on Saint Fedski!

*Then again, Yallak's warships are well crafted as well, so it's fifty-fifty.

Problem is with your plans SEA, Amestria votes nay on Sarz. direct military involvement without sufficient reason...

Sarz. would have no reason to jump into what is a civil war in a part of the world that nation has payed little attention to until now. It is realistic for Sarz. to send a convoy, but not just to jump in... and need I remind everyone the closed nature of the thread...

One cannot just run to someone more powerful then everyone else due to the RP, after about 100 pages, not going the way you want...

As far as Amestria is concerned the RP is enjoyable heading in its current direction...

I have given Amestria permission to do some RPing with my troops. Amestria could you paste the message I TG'd (my copy got lost)?

As for foreign nations getting involved, they are only involved as far as convoys go. If one such convoy is attacked, then that nation has the right to enter the RP on a larger scale.

I'm starting the media war thread now and copy/pasting my big post into it.

Just to point out, Amestria, Lou doesn't want to talk to someone in your media. He wants to take on an Amestrian Government Official of some sort.

How about someone from the Defense Ministry, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, or the Ministry of Peace?

How about someone from the Defense Ministry, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, or the Ministry of Peace?

All he really cares about is that it's someone who can represent the Amestrian government.

Link. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=458871)

I have to go out of the house for a little bit, so I will post on this issue (and the TPLA plague barriers) when I get back...

Until then...

Kahanistan, TG on your Torontian post...

McKagan prepare for your counter point. There's one thing different about this flu then a flu that forms from bad conditions. People who get those diseases don't have their brains explode out of their heads.

OK, I'll get on it.

At the time - yes i was annoyed that people were arguing over assumptions of what me and Amestria thought. But no - i have nothing against Sarz's convoy or his governments messages - in fact i have been waiting for his reply in the peace talk thread!Problem is, I'm asking to retcon those government messages because I don't like how I've been dragged this far into a closed RP.

At this stage, the only way I will get involved in this RP is if my convoy is attacked.

Now onto Sarz. Amestria votes yea to Sarz.'s convoy delivering supplies to SF controled Torontia... (gives the conflict an added diminsion, RL conflicts are that complex, for example the British deliver supplies to the Confederates during the civil war and the U.S. trying to stay out of war with them over it...)

Amestria votes nay on Sarz. militarly jumping in without a sufficient reason.

What would be a sufficient reason:

1) We attack his convoy.

2) We expand the war and attack SF's home nation's...

I believe that is both reasonable and realistic...

Agreed on the reasonability and realism points.

Problem is, I'm asking to retcon those government messages because I don't like how I've been dragged this far into a closed RP.

At this stage, the only way I will get involved in this RP is if my convoy is attacked.

Perhaps, if you want to become involved, we could cook up a scenario where some sort of snafu with one of the convoys leads to war? Say, an accident involving an Amestrian patrol leads to war, or the insurgents disguise themselves as Amestrians, and launch an attack on a convoy in an attempt to draw Sarzonian forces into the conflict? Things to consider, I suppose.

Hal. it is Yallak ships manning the blockades, not Amestrian...

And I doubt the insurgents could attain the blue Amestrian Military uniforms...

Here is how the uniforms look, minus body armor, helmets, and breathing equipment...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:State_Military_(FMA).JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vato_Falman_(FMA).JPG

McKagan prepare for your counter point. There's one thing different about this flu then a flu that forms from bad conditions. People who get those diseases don't have their brains explode out of their heads.

How do you know that it didn't evolve over time, just like they're afraid the bird flu will now?

SF, when are you going to post replies to the attacks on your planes and fleet?

Yallak vs. Sarzonia would be an interesting war IMO.

Hearing Yallak say Sarzonia is up for extermination would be funny. :p

I agree, it would have been. I am almost inclined to risk everything by attacking his convoy just to test the Imperial Navy against the ISN.

But alas, that would be stupid on my behalf - still.....

And id be happy to say that to them, if they got far enough onto the hated list. EDIT: but any war here i wouldn't want carried over to anyones mainland - unless the hatred became so great and both parties agreed to do so.

Amestria is not in Torontia to wage a world war... It is in Torontia for Peacekeeping and Reconstruction...

There has already been more fighting then was expected...

I'm also interested in a massive airwing flying over Torontia... it would be a PERFECT time for me to send some in, but I like having my involvement clandestine.

If the war stops with SF in Torontia, I have a chance to make it ALOT more complicated.

It would have to be a massive airwing - i have 18,000 combat aircraft in Torontia!

What is Mckagan hoping to accomplish by destablizing Torontia...

Just to point out, every time Mckagan has attempted to destablize Torontia, Amestria has increased its military forces and control... (the exact opposite of what Mckagan wants... the bio-weapon in particular really backfired...)

Would it not make more sense to lie low and prepare for the aftermath of the occupation...

And I posted my response to the TPLA's latest attempt at chaos...

that's definitely Amestria's and Yallak's fault though.

SF, when are you going to post replies to the attacks on your planes and fleet?
When I have time. I'm sorry but 3 seconds here, three seconds there doesn't allow me much. MY days are divided into thirds: Work (full time), School (full time), Misc (Homework, sleep, girlfriend, meals, errands, socializing). To be honest, I'm leaving for work in three minutes.

Take your time then...

When I have time. I'm sorry but 3 seconds here, three seconds there doesn't allow me much. MY days are divided into thirds: Work (full time), School (full time), Misc (Homework, sleep, girlfriend, meals, errands, socializing). To be honest, I'm leaving for work in three minutes.

Don't worry - just asking cause you said you'd post it yesterday. I understand you've got stuff to do - my work never leaves me along - hell they rang me last week when i was sick on the same day i called in sick to ask if i could work.

What is Mckagan hoping to accomplish by destablizing Torontia...

Just to point out, every time Mckagan has attempted to destablize Torontia, Amestria has increased its military forces and control... (the exact opposite of what Mckagan wants... the bio-weapon in particular really backfired...)

Would it not make more sense to lie low and prepare for the aftermath of the occupation...

And I posted my response to the TPLA's latest attempt at chaos...

That's eventually what McKagan is going to do. But look at it this way: The McKagan Central Intelligence Division (MCID, or, in the SRN report, "the division") is telling SRN what to put out. Now the longer Amestria is pouring troops into Torontia to fight a small insurgency, the more Lou can try to make them look pourly trained and unable to do their job. So later when the TPLA is crushed (and I am planning that, ish,) it will be time for the troop numbers in Torontia to change around, which in the end makes the RP more interesting.

Don't worry - just asking cause you said you'd post it yesterday. I understand you've got stuff to do - my work never leaves me along - hell they rang me last week when i was sick on the same day i called in sick to ask if i could work.

I love being so much younger than everyone else here. :)

I love being so much younger than everyone else here. :)

How old are you?

How old are you?

You're going to laugh and refuse to RP with me anymore.

no probly not

14.

You're going to laugh and refuse to RP with me anymore.
I'm possibly younger than you... unless you're under 16. And people still RP with me and don't laugh at me...

14.
Oh wait, never mind my comment then.

Actually, two of the most successful and well-known RPers on this forum (Hogsweat and Sanctaphrax) were 14 when they started RPing, IIRC. Not too many people laugh at them... although, I do admit that it's hard to laugh at a nation of 5 billion...

hahaha 14 hahaha.... get out of this thread!!

No not really, i have nothing against your age. I started this when i was 16, but i would have earlier if id know about it.

No not really, i have nothing against your age. I started this when i was 16, but i would have earlier if id know about it.
Name someone who wouldn't have.... ;)

Actually, I did. I had a nation or two on NS in later 2002 or early 2003, I have forgotten which. (If only I'd kept it alive. :() Unfortunately, real life intruded, and I forgot about NS, shamefully, for a couple of years until I was 'reintroduced' and returned with this nation...

Hogsweat was 14 when he started!? That's odd. I always thought he was MUCH older than that.

I've been afraid to say how old I am since a 12 YEAR OLD came on here an h3 tlkd lek ths a11 th3 tm.

He was like the ULTIMATE noob, he actually said "McKagan, what is your nations name?"

Of course, I couldn't say much to him since that's how anyone below 18 is expected to talk on the internet...

Name someone who wouldn't have.... ;)

Actually, I did. I had a nation or two on NS in later 2002 or early 2003, I have forgotten which. (If only I'd kept it alive. :() Unfortunately, real life intruded, and I forgot about NS, shamefully, for a couple of years until I was 'reintroduced' and returned with this nation...

I signed up here in like 2002 but decided that it wasn't that fun because all I saw was answering one issue a day.

Then one day I was sitting here and I remembered this site, signed up, and decided to click forums.

My life was changed forever. :p

Oh, Mckagan, Amestria has replied to Lou's challenge and will be sending to Ministers to refute him... see Media thread...

My life was changed forever. :p

Same - i now have an addiction.

hahaha 14 hahaha.... get out of this thread!!

No not really, i have nothing against your age. I started this when i was 16, but i would have earlier if id know about it.I feel like I'm on the other end of the extreme. I started this game when I was 30. And Hogsweat is 14 now. He started a couple of years ago when he was 12.

Oh, Mckagan, Amestria has replied to Lou's challenge and will be sending to Ministers to refute him... see Media thread...

I've got to go to bed now, but I'll be back to RP anything tommorow.

I signed up here in like 2002 but decided that it wasn't that fun because all I saw was answering one issue a day.

Then one day I was sitting here and I remembered this site, signed up, and decided to click forums.

My life was changed forever. :p

Yeah, tell me about it. I've been addicted since May of this year. Yes, I have been on the forums since my country's creation. I even have a decent-sized puppet now...

I feel like I'm on the other end of the extreme. I started this game when I was 30. And Hogsweat is 14 now. He started a couple of years ago when he was 12.

You're kidding me! I had him pegged as at least my age, around 16 or so. Wow...how badly I misjudge.:p

I just finished my reply to the media war thread

Hey Sarz, are you sure you want to retcon your government's activity?

Hey Sarz, are you sure you want to retcon your government's activity?Yes. If my convoy gets attacked, I'll retaliate massively.

1) It'd be considered an act of war against Sarzonia against a larger power
2) It'd be in retaliation for your attacks against my allies

Unless a RP gets worked out in advance, when I fight wars, I'm out for blood.

Yes. If my convoy gets attacked, I'll retaliate massively.

1) It'd be considered an act of war against Sarzonia against a larger power
2) It'd be in retaliation for your attacks against my allies

Unless a RP gets worked out in advance, when I fight wars, I'm out for blood.

But if we leave you alone or Amestria controls all of Torontia's harbors when your fleet arrives?

Here's the deal:

If my convoy gets attacked, my government declares war and all hell breaks loose. After the disaster in Inkana, my government doesn't believe in fighting limited wars. And as part of the war, my goverment will send fleets to Yallak and attack Yallak's homeland. If you want a limited war, you have the wrong player.

Well Amestria does not want a war with Sarz. period, limited or otherwise... (IC and OOC)

And I do not think Sarz. wants to wage a war over a previously ignored country in North America which Sarz has no interests in...

I see no reason for any war between Yallak/Amestria and Sarz...

Actually, if you're talking about Torontia, I've made a few government statements warning them when they RP'd still having their dictatorial regime and there were a couple of RPs where I would have sent forces over there.

How do you know that it didn't evolve over time, just like they're afraid the bird flu will now?
I doubt you have a Viral engineering Factory located in the Country and besides it's still the orginal Virus that's running around.

I mean in relation to the Torontian occupation (the New Order is no more)...

14.
Same age.

Same age.

That explains the sense of idealism I get from your nation...

EDIT: And I mean that strictly as an observation...

What do you mean by that Amestria?

Your manner of how you RP your nation IC, there is a certain youthfulness in perspective about it... (and I do not mean immature, I mean youthful)...

I pick it up whenever I read your Government Letters, or maybe that is just me...

All our Nations have elements of us in them...

I see. I thought you were insulting me, but you weren't. Thanks for disclosing it.

Southeast Asia, remember when Xirnium and you got into an OOC debate on your nations IC behavior, and Xirnium called your country arrogant when in character… Well perhaps Xirnium picked up on your youthful perspective, but instead interpreted it as arrogance (as youthfulness is sometimes interpreted)…

Calk it up to the differing physiological characteristics of each nation… OOC and IC...

Perhaps, if you want to become involved, we could cook up a scenario where some sort of snafu with one of the convoys leads to war? Say, an accident involving an Amestrian patrol leads to war, or the insurgents disguise themselves as Amestrians, and launch an attack on a convoy in an attempt to draw Sarzonian forces into the conflict? Things to consider, I suppose.
My Idea:

A Yallakian captain mistakes the Sarzonian pocket dreadnaught for Saint Fedskian reinforcement, and fires upon it / Another way involving human error: a cruise missile at a Saint Fedskian warship misses and ends up hitting the previously mentioned Sarzonian warship. This results in the small convoy taking out a good chunk of the Imperial Navy of Yallak, and Xirnium (ICly of course) to gape in awe as their mighty ally gets the tar beaten out of them.

Problem is SEA that we OOC do not want a war with Sarz. for many reasons and the professional highly trained Yallak Navy (with its very clear chain of command), after months of manning patrols along the Torontian coast is unlikely to make such a mistake...

Also, Sarz.'s fleet is a week away from the present time (as I have said before...), which makes any discussion of their pressence premature at best... The heavy naval fighting, if not all naval combat, (assuming the war continues to that point) would be over by then...

Xirnium (ICly of course) to gape in awe as their mighty ally gets the tar beaten out of them.
You have this strange fixation with Holy Xirnium, don't you? I've told you numerous times before, if you want a war with the High Ecclesiarchy you know just where to find us. Xirniumites don't "gape in awe" at no one.

Even the pros have flaws. While highly unlikely, let's just say that while Sarzonia is smaller by a two hundred million population difference, can effectively turn the Torontian coast into a graveyard of warship hulls and corpses. He is known to be one of the shipmasters of NS, and go look at Cam III before I go on further. His fleet effectively destroyed Cam's, and Cam used MAD: their fatal last mistake.

My characters could care less about invading Xirnium as much as watching Automagfreek decimate a nation with a government that believes that if they destroy Automagfreek, they will be seen as indomitable.

a government that believes that if they destroy Automagfreek, they will be seen as indomitable.
And which government is that?

Oh did you have to ask? AMF has dealt with those foolish government officials one too many times, go ask him if you really want to know, or read his 'A Complete Moron's Guide to AMF Foreign Policy' thread.

Most likely Kahanistan (although Kahanistan was not foolish and put up a pretty good defense given the circumstances), as that was the most recent victim, or Kraven, as Kraven went out of its way to seek conflict with AMF...

Anyway, SEA, your country uses soft power regularly and a user of soft power has to realize there is a limit to how much effect soft power has...

No one wants a war with Sarz., Sarz does not want a war in Torontia, so there will be no war... SEA better start thinking up more plausible plans of action...

Oh did you have to ask? AMF has dealt with those foolish government officials one too many times, go ask him if you really want to know, or read his 'A Complete Moron's Guide to AMF Foreign Policy' thread.


I think the Neo Administration has been ingesting some vastly unhealthy doses of Minister Hartman's propaganda lately. The High Ecclesiarchy consideres suggestions that nations like Kahanistan are led by suicidal fools just looking to get themselves wiped out by "poor" AMF, the "victim" which is left with no other choice but to exterminate her enemies, is absurd.

Need I point out that this current line of disscussion has nothing to do with Torontia, use that other thread you guys put together for those short of debates...

Hey, it was SEA who dragged Xirnium into this, not me..

But I do agree that any further discussion should be directed to the Xirnium OOC thread.

I've moved the post to the Xirnium OOC thread.

Anyway, SEA, your country uses soft power regularly and a user of soft power has to realize there is a limit to how much effect soft power has...
I know there is a limit, like most things are. But soft power can be used to create a great effect.

But only if who your using it against will cower it fear at the mear mention of someone with a reputation

If you're thinking I'm about to pull an FWS, no, I don't use the threat of AMF to do that. The only reason why I want to be friends with AMF is because I want to take Doujin's place. Doujin was supposed to make AMF more like a 'face' nation, more into the 'light' side, or at least more 'in-between' the two spectrums.

But to stay on topic Yallak, how come your characters view the Sarzonian vessels as 'floating metal deposits'?

What is SEA trying to accomplish in Torontia?

And why is it semi-taking sides against a Liberal European Nation?

ICly it was only one character - a captain in the Imperial Navy. To fully understand you'd need to see it in perspective. In the peace talks, Saint Fedski refered to having Sarzonian ships to try and say his navel vessel were better than Yallak's even though he didn't have as many.

Our ships use technology manufactured in DMG, Sarzonia, and North Saint Clair in order to detect vessels before they hit point blank range.

So the captain called Sarz's ships 'floating metal deposits' to show that he wasn't threatened by such claims and that (being an officer in the navy) his ships were better than any other on the seas.

I'm just backing my ally, not blindly though. And your government's ideology vaguely whispers of the 'Liberal Imperialism' ideology in Praetonia.

Who is Praetonia... and I will remind you that Amestria entered Torontia after the old regime collapsed, Amestria did not declare war on Torontia to make it a Liberal Democracy (nor did it begin the Torontian Occupation with that as a main goal)...

Another shipbuilding legend like Sarzonia. Since this is OOC, and ICly you cannot use this intelligence. First, Halberdgardia gets a lot of his warships from Imperial Praetonian Shipyards. Second, Praetonia and Sarzonia are extremely close allies. Last of all, Halberdgardia's public information databank in his sig, the 'Government' part....uh oh.

No one wants a war with Sarz., Sarz does not want a war in Torontia, so there will be no war... SEA better start thinking up more plausible plans of action...However, if one of you attacks my convoy, there WILL be war and I will be out to get retribution. Whether my goverment wants war ICly or not is another matter.

I don't want war either, because my characters admire the Sarzonians and are looking forward to the day the United Sovereign Nations of Southeast Asia is admitted membership into the Woodstock Pact. But if the Yallakian captain spoke for the entire Yallakian military command, then they should put their money where their mouths are and show to the world that the ISN's vessels are truly 'floating metal deposits'.

Who is Praetonia... and I will remind you that Amestria entered Torontia after the old regime collapsed, Amestria did not declare war on Torontia to make it a Liberal Democracy (nor did it begin the Torontian Occupation with that as a main goal)...Like SEA said, he's a well-established RPer with an excellent reputation for naval excellence (hell, he has a reputation for overall excellence). As stated, he's ICly an extremely close ally of Sarzonia's (think the U.S.-U.K. on the juice).

Just a heads up for everyone, due to RL problems, I might be foreced to withdraw from this RP. I cannot continue RPing without constant access to a computer (homeless men don't have computers with the internet). So depending on what happens tonight, I'll send a message here or to Amestria. Actually, would it be best if I just withdrew now, seeing as I haven't made a decent post in 3 days?

Ok, just to point out, if SF leaves, that does NOT give Amestria/Yallak the right to claim his parts of Torontia.

Here's my suggestion:

I understand Saint Fedski is involved in an alliance with Sarzonia and more nations, correct? Perhaps he could leave this RP as stating Saint Fedski's economy can no longer support major troop deployments, so they're turning it over to a multi-national force from that alliance?

I doubt you have a Viral engineering Factory located in the Country.

He (McKagan) doesn't.

I do.

We've got over a hundred huge vats churning out all manner of bacterial and viral weapons back home on the Halberdgardian mainland, and samples of these bioweapons were air-dropped into Torontia with Whittier and my SOLE team.

I understand Saint Fedski is involved in an alliance with Sarzonia and more nations, correct? Perhaps he could leave this RP as stating Saint Fedski's economy can no longer support major troop deployments, so they're turning it over to a multi-national force from that alliance?

I like that idea.

He (McKagan) doesn't.


I actually do have a small bioweapons program that's just not getting use (after seeing the potential in Torontia, that is,) but it was mostly put on the shelf after our massive Tactical Nuclear Program gave us the ability to give out realistic threats.

That would change the nature of my convoy from one delivering supplies to Saint Fedski to one that's sending troops over. Or reinforcing troops that are already there in the theatre. Having said that, that would also involve me in a RP I wasn't originally involved with.

A couple of other notes that I've seen in this OOC thread: 1) Sarzonia considers acts of aggression against her allies, especially when they're excessive, to be valid reason for Sarzonia to get involved;

2) Have any of you guys seen the oft-used concept of fluid time here in NS? If you're slavishy following realistic time frames for a fleet to mobilise and then appear in a combat theatre, the RP stretches for MONTHS on end and a lot of players lose interest.

I'm not saying that two minutes after you post beginning to mobilise that a fleet should arrive, but you can probably cut the time to a couple of RL days to speed the action along. As long as you've accounted for the time it takes to get to theatre, that's fine. For instance, I could write a post about a soldier who's eager to kick some Yallaki ass or I could write a post where my generals dicuss their combat operations and the overall strategy they'll use.

Just a few thoughts from a veteran of RPs that have lost momentum.

Having said that, that would also involve me in a RP I wasn't originally involved with.


That only matters if YOU don't want to get involved. No one else cares, I think.

Another shipbuilding legend like Sarzonia. Since this is OOC, and ICly you cannot use this intelligence. First, Halberdgardia gets a lot of his warships from Imperial Praetonian Shipyards. Second, Praetonia and Sarzonia are extremely close allies. Last of all, Halberdgardia's public information databank in his sig, the 'Government' part....uh oh.

Strangely enough, that actually motivated me to update it. I just need to slap some new names down for the Cabinet members, and the re-organization under the Kil Administration will be complete. I'll probably do that later, possibly even tonight.

That only matters if YOU don't want to get involved. No one else cares, I think.

He's right, Sarz; both Yallak and Amestria have given you the OK to join so long as you have an IC justification. If you want to join, you can, and we'll figure out something.

Right now we HAVE a reason for him to join. We simply say Saint Fedski can no longer support the deployments, and Sarzonia comes in (as his ally) to fill in the open places. Of course, we could still have SF keep some generic troops around incase he comes back.

Also, does anyone else realize that we SHOULD be begging Sarzonia to join? If he doesn't and SF pulls out, the RP effectively dies.

Amestria and Yallak: You say you neither OOCly or ICly want war. YOU can control that.

Is Amestria and Kahanistan's "shoot-on-sight" policy public knowledge? You both have mentioned passing laws that make it legal.

Yes the shoot on sight policy towards those who break the quarintine is public knowledge, the President of Torontia announced it himself on Torontian TV, although the execution of insurgents is secret... and no media is allowed into BC...


On the subject of Hal. and Mckagan's recent statements...

I voted yea only for the Sarz. convoy...

I voted nay for Sarz. in any way entering the actuall conflict unless Amestria/Yallak do something which IC can only result in Sarz. entering the conflict on SF's side (which we will not do)...

If SF leaves the RP do to OOC computer problems then that is a whole different story... Since Sarz. does not believe in the concept of limited war I have a sneaking suspicion that he is the wrong person to replace SF with... As Torontia has so far been the scene of two limited wars and two (three?) insurgencies...

The final losses for the brief, less then three hour conflict, would have to be calculated...

And if SF where to withdraw, Olympia and Seattle would be totally taken over by the TPG and Amestria... Eastern Torontia however would lose what stability it has had (the SF troops being pulled out with no immediate replacements)...

I would not say the RP on the Torontian Occupation would end or die, just enter a new phase... One has to remember that things have concentrated on the coasts, now Amestria may (depending on what happens) move into or have to pay more intention to the interior (where there is a dearth of authority and sowed beds of another insurgency)... Also, there are the political issues raised by the creation of a democratic government and National Elections...

In the meantime there is the spinoff idea on a fight over control of Idaho... Yet to be exploited...

BTW, only Amestria is enforcing the quarantine, Kahanistan's forces are mostly rooting out insurgents. Some are giving aid (food, medicine, etc.) to people in the cities, but the enforcement of the quarantine is being left to the Amestrians. Kahanistan only agreed to shooting insurgents after the President got a visit from two ambassadors and talked over their concerns with the Supreme Soviet.

2) Have any of you guys seen the oft-used concept of fluid time here in NS? If you're slavishy following realistic time frames for a fleet to mobilise and then appear in a combat theatre, the RP stretches for MONTHS on end and a lot of players lose interest.

I'm not saying that two minutes after you post beginning to mobilise that a fleet should arrive, but you can probably cut the time to a couple of RL days to speed the action along. As long as you've accounted for the time it takes to get to theatre, that's fine. For instance, I could write a post about a soldier who's eager to kick some Yallaki ass or I could write a post where my generals dicuss their combat operations and the overall strategy they'll use.

Just a few thoughts from a veteran of RPs that have lost momentum.

If you check the begining of the thread, we were using fluid time up until SF began having his time/computer problems... At which point we changed over to realistic time to help him manage and keep track of everything...

Just a heads up for everyone, due to RL problems, I might be forced to withdraw from this RP.
Amestria, he didn't say "I'm leaving". He's saying that he may have to, can't say though.

Just planning ahead in case he does withdraw...

Yes the shoot on sight policy towards those who break the quarintine is public knowledge, the President of Torontia announced it himself on Torontian TV, although the execution of insurgents is secret... and no media is allowed into BC...


On the subject of Hal. and Mckagan's recent statements...

I voted yea only for the Sarz. convoy...

I voted nay for Sarz. in any way entering the actuall conflict unless Amestria/Yallak do something which IC can only result in Sarz. entering the conflict on SF's side (which we will not do)...

If SF leaves the RP do to OOC computer problems then that is a whole different story... Since Sarz. does not believe in the concept of limited war I have a sneaking suspicion that he is the wrong person to replace SF with... As Torontia has so far been the scene of two limited wars and two (three?) insurgencies...

The final losses for the brief, less then three hour conflict, would have to be calculated...

And if SF where to withdraw, Olympia and Seattle would be totally taken over by the TPG and Amestria... Eastern Torontia however would lose what stability it has had (the SF troops being pulled out with no immediate replacements)...

I would not say the RP on the Torontian Occupation would end or die, just enter a new phase... One has to remember that things have concentrated on the coasts, now Amestria may (depending on what happens) move into or have to pay more intention to the interior (where there is a dearth of authority and sowed beds of another insurgency)... Also, there are the political issues raised by the creation of a democratic government and National Elections...

In the meantime there is the spinoff idea on a fight over control of Idaho... Yet to be exploited...

Who says we have to even HAVE a war? An RP that turns to clandestine stuff and/or diplomacy is just as fun. Make it happen.

Oh, and Amestria, i've not forgotten about the Idaho RP. I'm willing to do that, and Hal probably is to. After I figure out a way to get my DART teams over there, we'll see what we can do.

Idaho has no air defenses at present... The Darts just need to get out of BC and then they could be flown into Idaho at will...

Mckagan, TG!

^
Responded.

SF the post on the attack on Olympia needs to be revised at it does not accuratly reflect the situation...

1. How could the radio's work when Olympia was hit with an EMP bomb?

2. The SF lines have been under Amestrian/Yallak bombardment from land , they would already know they are under attack...

3. 150,000 Amestrian/TPG troops are surrounding the city in a flanking manuver... They are not crossing the lines piecemeal, they are crossing in mass!

4. Yallak armor is headed right into the city center.

5. Olympia is urban, there would be no "brush"...

EDIT: There has been no bombardment of Olympia from sea (little mistake of mine)

It's as accurate as you allowed for. Your post was The Amestrian/TPG forces along the Amestrian/SF border open fire upon the SF lines with surface-to-surface missile and artillery fire. The 150,000 Amestrian/TPG troops fortified around Olympia attempt to surround the city with a flanking maneuver.

That's pretty vague, so I improvised. I assumed you were actually flanking the city and surrounding it, which would mean going around the urban area (otherwise you aren'tflanking it)

I have been around Olympia, the Amestrian troops would be going through subverbs in order to surround the Olympia city center, not brush, Olympia is in a very urban area of Washington... That is what I meant...

Hal. it is Yallak ships manning the blockades, not Amestrian...

And I doubt the insurgents could attain the blue Amestrian Military uniforms...

Here is how the uniforms look, minus body armor, helmets, and breathing equipment...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:State_Military_(FMA).JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vato_Falman_(FMA).JPG
Do you model your characters off anime series?

Do you model your characters off anime series?

I really like the uniforms of the State Military in the Fullmetal Alchemist series, which is why I decided to use them... They have a French/German/Central European look, which I feel defines Amestria.

Yes, if you look closely some of my characters have inspiration derived from Anime and Manga...

Sometimes I just use the names (when I have writers block), other times I adjust an existing character and add him to the story... Sometimes I use a character as a template and create something new…

Other characters are my own invention, derived more from then anything else.

I am a master of synthesis.

SF: On the subject of your troop numbers... they stand at less then two million in actuality (1.5 million, last we talked on it, not counting militia), am I correct.

(I calculate this figure by measuring past posts on troop deployment and your training of Torontians...)

I don't plan on RPing with anymore than 1 million soldiers on the ground (give or take a couple hundred thousand for support personnel...so its all good. I'm currently working on a post for my bomber runs. It should be done shortly (contains, facts, figures, stats the fun stuff).

I'm making the Idaho Spinoff thread right now.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I accidently clicked the exit button before the submition of my bombing raid. DAMN IT!. Will do that again tomorrow as well.

Link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10109916#post10109916)

Alright, here's the deal.

Saint Fedski contacted me and requested my help on this RP. So I am.

It's coming in the form of 24 soldiers from the 22nd SOF-D Regiment, the best (acknowledged) Special Forces unit in Sniper Country, and believed by many to be the best in the world. If you have any doubts, contact Automagfreek. He'd be the first to vouch for me.

Now usually, the SCAF would never contract troops out to foreigners. Usually that would be done through Admiral Contracting Ltd. However, Commander-General Mark Spitz, who is in the midst of purchasing upgrades and such for the SCAF, sees his funds dwindling, with many more purchases he needs to make. So he sees that hiring out a group of troops for a good sum of cash could help in his endeavors. Therefore, he is combining Rollout Unit and High-Tide Unit of the 22nd, both consisting of 12 troops each, into Rolltide Unit, and sending them to Saint Fedski's aid.

Note that this entire "hiring" of these troops was made in complete secrecy. No one knows of it aside from specific Saint Fedski officials, CGN Spitz, Col. Ramsdell, the 24 troops of Rolltide Unit, and two pilots from the 113th Tactical Operations Aviation Detachment (TOAD). That's it.

So... I'll be joining in, whenever I do. Soon enough.

Any objections, speak now.

I have some questions of SF on this subject... No objections at present, just questions...

Considering that no matter how you look at it, SF is outnumbered, I have NO objections.

I have some questions of SF on this subject...
I had attempted to hire SC's special forces prior to the start of the conflict to knock out Gran, Mustang and Burns. SC is not so much as helping me as he is RPing hired mercenaries. The targets will be Amestrian HQs, communication centers, and ammo depots. The SC forces will also be supported by Saint Fedskian Elite Guards and Intelligence Bureau agents who will relay positions and movements to the SF commanders. The Elite Guards will provide continued behind the line operations (roaming) while the SC troops will be for specific missions with specific objectives and goals.

Saint Fedski:

The sooner you answer my telegram, the sooner I can get involved.

McKagen:

I laugh at numbers. Maybe because I suck at math, or maybe because I'm just that good... The world may never know...

Everybody/Anybody:

I need an update on what's going on so far.

Preciate it.

Ah, the legendary commando teams of Sniper Country. Like AMF, I would also vouch for you if someone were to ask who had the best commando team in the entire NS world. I look forward to SC making Yallak's and Amestria's lives miserable.

I don't think the commando's would be able to get anywhere in Western Torontia, but they could raise hell everywhere else...

Kahanistan TG

I don't think the commando's would be able to get anywhere in Western Torontia, but they could raise hell everywhere else...

Any real reason?

Any real reason?

Western Torontia is under the complete control of the Amestrian Military and there are over three million troops stationed there...

Western Torontia is under the complete control of the Amestrian Military and there are over three million troops stationed there...

I laugh at numbers. Maybe because I suck at math, or maybe because I'm just that good... The world may never know...

Three million troops... Can I ask what the training the basic infantry in your armed forces go through would be equal to in RL?

Three million troops... Can I ask what the training the basic infantry in your armed forces go through would be equal to in RL?

Amestria has over one million troops in WT, Yallak (Amestrian ally) has about two million, and the TPG military (Amestrian ally) has another million.

And Amestria is a Nation with over a billion people and spends 8% on Defense...

The training/quality of the Amestrian troops equals that of the Modern RL United States in fighting quality and surpasses it in other areas such as peacekeeping (for example: every Amestrian soldier is college educated and most speak more then one language). A lot of this does not have so much to do with the Military budget, more the Educational budget (22% of overall budget).

...I couldn't care less about how many people you have and how much you spend on your military budget. Sniper Country's military budget, at the moment, is dwindling. Of course, the SCAF's trying to recover from the Rebellion, but still. There are only 84 SOF-D troops left after the Omzian War. We're /secretly/ delegating 24 to this mission, and 12 just got back from an intense training mission against Crimmond Special Forces, which we won. The basic GRUNT in the SCAF is the equivalent to combined Green Berets and Rangers in the US Military. Basic Training is, if I remember correctly off the top of my head, 52 weeks. That's just our basic infantry. And we're sending our top SpecOps units.

Now see, ya'll got me riled up at almost 4am. I need some sleep. Or something.

I am just pointing out that there is a high concentration of troops in Western Torontia and also entry would be impossible... (borders closed and a massive Naval blockade)... The Amestrian forces have so far crushed two insurgent groups trying to make trouble in WT, I doubt 24 commando's would be a problem.

Eastern Torontia is an entirely different matter... they can deploy there without difficulty and cause all sorts of problems...

Eh, if you say so. I actually can't say anything because I have no clue of anything in this RP, since Saint Fedski never replied to my TG, because he's a loser! And in any case, we're still waiting on orders for what to exactly DO. So we may not even go into Western Torontia. Anyway, I'm going to bed. Good morning.

SF has been having time sucked up by RL and has had computor problems, so don't call him a loser...

Three million troops... Can I ask what the training the basic infantry in your armed forces go through would be equal to in RL?

Lets see. A standard Yallakian soldier (assault infantry) spends no less than his whole life in training, attending military acedemies and training + plus the other educational crap from the age of four. Officers and Arkhein shocktroops spend longer in training (and shocktroops are almost always veterans). In RL nothing would even come close.

Mac (my nickname for McKagan when The Macabees isn't around, just FYI for those of you who don't know):

Regarding our economy-crashing scheme, I found the post I was looking for here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9514720&postcount=15).

If we did it we'd have to RP it out more so it wouldn't be a godmod, but it CAN be done.

Lets see. A standard Yallakian soldier (assault infantry) spends no less than his whole life in training, attending military acedemies and training + plus the other educational crap from the age of four. Officers and Arkhein shocktroops spend longer in training (and shocktroops are almost always veterans). In RL nothing would even come close.

Ah, the brainwashed approach (Marines! *chuckes to self*). Yeah, gone up against plenty of those too. Should be fun.

-Script Error Tag post-

Mac:

Is the football stadium you're referring to abandoned, or what? If it is, then Whittier will probably have us move there. If it's not, or if we'd be in more danger of being discovered there, then he'd probably tell Driver to stick with the current hotel/bunker location.

Yes, it's abandoned and has been for some time. The area around it is like a MASSIVE open area for parking and the like and it's all been fenced off prior to now. The DART's are going to spread rumors into the populace (and public records) that it's not very stable, too; so NO ONE WILL HAVE ANY REASON TO GO THERE, attack it, or anything. The blimp would be landing at night, so the roof will only be opened for a short time, when no one will see it. If we all move there, i'll ICly talk more about the security preparations.

May I suggest that you create a new OOC thread for your little spinoff? Because this particular thread will be even more congested and whatever else shortly

Do we really need another one? It's not like it's THAT conjested. If everyone wants me to, I'll make one and use it for all the spinoff RP's i'm getting out of this.

Kahan...that lost post of your's was just a little weak...add some detail...and your fleets are arriving extremely quickly considering Czardas' aircraft aren't able to arrive for a couple more hours (they left before your fleets and travel much quicker)

Due to a preexisting agreement with Saint Fedski, combined with a post on his ally/embassy page, I find myself more or less obligated to assist him. Does anybody object to my participation?

Yes, as you have not been involved with this RP until now (an RP of over 100 pages). You had plenty of time to announce your assistance, but that time has now past and it is too late.

If we were attacking SF itself then it would be another story, but the conflict is only taking place in Torontia.

Ah, the brainwashed approach (Marines! *chuckes to self*). Yeah, gone up against plenty of those too. Should be fun.

Marines??? ive got none - and no brainwashing, just combat and tactical training

Yes, as you have not been involved with this RP until now (an RP of over 100 pages). You had plenty of time to announce your assistance, but that time has now past and it is too late.

If we were attacking SF itself then it would be another story, but the conflict is only taking place in Torontia.

Amestria, I had requested Templa's aid long before the conflict started, long before Yallak cancelled the withdrawl. We were just discussing what was needed. I will check but I made a post way back when about it.

I have no recollection of such a post...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10077265&postcount=547

Templa was one of th e I forget who else only because there wasn't a post made here. We were too busy TGing. Yes it may sound kind of ironic, but thats the way it was. Also, Templa was the third embassy in Saint Fedski so its been a long relationship.

Templa has not been involved in this RP in any way.

If the war was being waged against the SF nation then he could jump in no problem, but the conflict is limited to Torontia...

He could have gotten involved at any point when the RP was open, but he did not. The RP is now closed.

What about a convoy? hahaha

Are there not already enough convoys?

I am thinking about blowing up the Seattle harbors...

I don't know how this would work out, but if Templa sent a load of troops to St. Fedski, then St. Fedski would need fewer troops on the homeland for defense against whatever other threats there are out there, so SF could send way more troops into Torontia than would normally be safe?

In other words, SF could send a very large percentage of their troops to Torontia and let Templa handle much of SF's homeland defense...

How would those troops arrive in Torontia?

For instance, Amestrian troops can no longer fly in because of the threat posed by hostile forces...

Are there not already enough convoys?

I am thinking about blowing up the Seattle harbors...

If you recall...they Seattle/Tacoma harbours were already destroyed. The DMG convoys shouldve been RP'd as roll on, roll off on to the beach or a temporary pier or ferried in. I didn't think of it then but its not like it really makes that much of a difference because I'm sure the ships had cranes and were quite able to pull up along side a dock or something and unload themselves or with the help of other SF ships/helicopters in the harbour.


That's a good idea K. I was toying with the idea with I forget who about freeing up the rest of my navy while they protected my homeland.

How would those troops arrive in Torontia?

For instance, Amestrian troops can no longer fly in because of the threat posed by hostile forces...

They would go around the world...in 36 days.

That's a good idea K. I was toying with the idea with I forget who about freeing up the rest of my navy while they protected my homeland.

That is acceptable as it is not direct involvement...

They would go around the world...in 36 days.

No, come in only by sea, three weeks to four weeks...

21-28 days...

about my harbours...that should be "destroyed" not destroyed. The fires were deliberately set by SF terrorists and disused by SF so they wouldn't be destroyed by another power.

about my harbours...that should be "destroyed" not destroyed. The fires were deliberately set by SF terrorists and disused by SF so they wouldn't be destroyed by another power.

Also, the EMP bombs wiped out any computor or electronic equipment that survived the fires...

SF, I still need a reply to that last TG I sent you...

The upcoming post is heavily detailed with locations and distances. Please refer to Google Local before responding. After it is posted, possible civilian casualty areas will be listed here. Targets were chosen to minimize civilian casualties.

Google Local?

http://local.google.ca I usually type in "Seattle" to center it on the area.

Suggested civlian casualties (in relation to surrounding area) based on proximity to civilian centers and accuracy of weapons. Suggested damage in brackets from aircraft, artillery or both.

Target Zone #1 - Hoquiam Sector
Bowerman Airport - Very Little, if any (major)
Grays Harbour - None (minor - medium)
Ocean Shores Municipal Airport - Some - Medium (minor - medium with some landing hitting the water)
Westport Airport/Harbour - Medium (medium)
Hogan's Corner Airport - None (major)
Military Bases in the surrounding area - Some - Medium (major)

Target Zone #2 - South Vancouver Sector:
Pearson Airfield - Heavy - Extremely Heavy (major)
Camp Bonneville (Large Army Facility) - None (major)

Target Zone #3 - Port Angeles Sector:
William R. Fairchild International Airport - low - medium (medium - major)
Port Angeles Harbour - medium (major)
Amestrian Army Base Alpha (5km south of PA) - none - some (medium - major)

Target Zone #4 - Port Townsend Sector:
Jefferson County International Airport - none (heavy)
Hadock Airport - medium - heavy (medium)
Port Townsend Harbour - medium - heavy (major)
Rocky Point Airport - some - (low)
Kilisut Harbour and Naval Reservation - None - some (medium - major)
*Fort Worden State Park - None (medium)
*Fort Flagler State Park - None (heavy)

Just suggestions based on 80% of the aircraft getting through and 25% of the targets begin missed.


The next major post will be a major attack from Bremerton and Whidbey Island.

I am preparing the Amestrian response... stick around...

I based the attacks on the posts you and Yallak made a couple pages back...page 11 or 12. So Y will RP target area 1 and part of 3, you will do the rest Am. And I will RP losses. Check your TG first.

Amestrian Response Posted.

Saint Fedski you just assured your downfall.

Saint Fedski you just assured your downfall.
What're you talkin about? Do you really think I'm just going to sit here and allow them to attack me without fighting back? That might be something you would do...but I can stick up for myself. Just because they have a couple more troops than I do doesn't mean anything. If I RP well, I can pull off a victory.

SF is RP'ing VERY well considering he has NO ONE to help him overtly.

You think I'm RPing...wait until you see my counterattack. My deployments are going to be so detailed. I plan on RPing some actions down to the individual soldier. It's going to be great fun.

I'm not good at RP'ing MASS movements. In an infantry battle I like to RP on the Platoon or Company level, and I use Tank Units of 12. Now AIR WARS I can do, and Naval War I can do with big numbers.

I think that's why I'm so good at getting things done with DART's.

You think I'm RPing...wait until you see my counterattack. My deployments are going to be so detailed. I plan on RPing some actions down to the individual soldier. It's going to be great fun.

That's the only way to go, man. The ONLY way. Man I wish the Omzian War was still up...

Vancouver would have the greatest amount of warning so the Defenses would be ready...

please tell me how surface to air missiles can lock onto Amestrian Planes when the fighting is happening in Amestrian controled Airspace above the Amestrian zone...?

I am thinking about ignoring that, because the Amestrian planes would not be in range...

And if those surface to air missiles where in front line positions they would be getting clobbered by the Amestrian and Yallak artillery/surface to surface missile attacks...

So no, those surface to air missiles would not be there and you have some rewriting to do before I can respond to your post...

(and I am not even taking into account that the front-line SF radar systems would have been messed up by the EMP and could not target the Amestrian aircraft anyway)

Re-read your posts. Then re read mine. Then realise how much detail I used while all you said was "my aircraft intercept your's" You left it vague, so I made a story for it. Next time be more specific as to where your aircraft are. In this case you want your interceptors on the other side of the country which serves absolutely no purpose. When I get back from work, I will pick your TGs and post apart, providing you haven't fixed them because you are way in the wrong about most, if not all of your points.

I posted "once the SF aircraft crossed into Amestrian airspace they were immediately intercepted"... by missiles and the fighter planes... at no point did they cross into SF airspace (I would have posted if they did)...

The dog-fights are happening over the Amestrian zone only...

And air combat is not exactly where I'm best at RPing...

(and I am not even taking into account that the front-line SF radar systems would have been messed up by the EMP and could not target the Amestrian aircraft anyway)

That depends on both the "effectiveness" of the EMP device (re: kilotons) and the hardening of Saint Fedski's radar systems.

And don't feel bad. I suck at Air War too. Give me ground warfare, and I'll own it. Give me the air or give me the sea, and I'll probably just pee my pants and die.

I pulled up an air combat manual for some tactics to help my RPing.
With WELL over 1000 amestrian aircraft and 18,000 from Yallak, i need some tactics if I want to survive at little longer. I will make proper explanations in 9-10 hours.

It is only 755 aircraft engaging the SF attackers...

Sigh... oh how unrealistic...

It is perfectly realistic for a nation of over 3 billion to have 18,000 aircraft...

No, I mean 755 aircraft engaging at once. No matter how large your nation is.

That's nothing. I threw 2,000 - 3,000 MiG's at the Freekish Navy when I came under attack and still got curbstomped.

Of course, after the war I upgraded my air force from mostly MiG-29's to MiG-35's and B-52's. Plus, I got rid of the pathetic 155mm cannons I was using for coastal defense (which did jack against the Freekish Dreadnoughts, but were effective against smaller destroyers) and replaced them with 600mm and 762mm heavy siege guns as well as cruise missile launchers. Finally, I plan to have a new SD in a while. I'm already thinking up an interesting RP I can do with it.

Sarz., the Seattle harbors have been totaled...

And it is going to be a while yet before your covoy arrives...

That's nothing. I threw 2,000 - 3,000 MiG's at the Freekish Navy when I came under attack and still got curbstomped.


...

SC, you'd be suprised. But, it's considerably easier to carry out operations with large number of aircraft if the attack is beyond visual range, which most are.

Sarz., the Seattle harbors have been totaled...

And it is going to be a while yet before your covoy arrives...It's been over a week and remember I'm halfway between Europe and North America. I'm also trying to hurry things along so I can get back out of this RP. I don't want to have a RP that's been going on for months to hang over my head.

T-Mac, I'm sure, but I'm just thinking about getting that many aircraft in the air in the first place, in order to carry out an operation en masse. Not to mention getting them all back on the ground afterward, that'd be right near impossible.

I would just like to point out that the SF zone does not have a "strong economy", that that is just SF propoganda...

If there was an economic recovery in Central Torontia it has now been wiped out by the fighting (and EMP bombs)...

In Eastern Torontia there was lawlessness and chaos before fighting broke out and no significant economic proggress...

So, the SF zone does not have a strong economy... although IC they claim it does...

Well, that's what they all say. Now, before I send an OOC TG to Hal regarding usage of even more destructive, non-nuclear WMDs, keep your trap shut. Anyway, what's your IC stance on everyone here?

Yallak
Official: Neutral
Unofficial: Belligerent, imperialistic bastards that deserve a good slap to the face with the reformed ISA.

Amestria
Official: Neutral
Unofficial: See Yallak

Halberdgardia
Official: Good people, at least they are honest about their imperialism, and can do a proper job.
Unofficial: Same.

McKagan
Official: Neutral
Unofficial: Neutral

Leafanistan
Official: Friendly
Unofficial: Same, but concerned about it's national stability

Xirnium
Official: Unfriendly
Unofficial: Relations starting to warm

Saint Fedski
Official: See Hal
Unofficial: See Hal

Sarzonia
Official: Good relationship
Unofficial: See above

Czardas:
Official: Neutral, possible diplomatic relations
Unofficial: See above

What's your stance on everyone?

SF Torontia has a non-existent economy do to war conditions+Eastern instability... Its a fact...

And what does SEA have against Amestria?

How Amestria views SEA Leadership
Official but untrue: Neutral
Unofficial but actual: A bunch of self-righteous individuals who judge others with little idea of what is going on.

That's because they don't like your actions, which they claim is for liberal democracy. And the Amestrians back the TPG militarily, as is the TIG. So according to their logic, both the TIG and the TPG are puppets of the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski and the State of Amestria respectfully.

What's your IC stance on Sarzonia?

Sorry about that. I got a bit worked up.

While everyone is nicely off-topic, how did that absurd Amestrian trial in absentia of Lady Justice Galdria go?

I am posting this information here in addition to editing into the post on the attack on Olympia...

Amestrian Military Deployments: Front Line Divisions

Supreme Commander: General of the Armies Basque Gran (technically a seven star general)

Currently Flanking Olympia

Overall Commander: General Roy Mustang

Amestrian Divisions

1st Armored: 20,000 Troops
1,000 Armored Vehicles (500 Heavy Tanks, 500 Armored Personnel Carriers)
50 Howitzers and 50 Heavy Mortar Teams
Division Commander: General Aznavour

2nd Mechanized Infantry: 25,000 Troops
500 Armored Personnel Carriers
100 Howitzers and 100 Light Mortar Teams
1 Surface-to-Surface rocket launcher
Division Commander: General Canel

3rd Mechanized Infantry: 25,000 Troops
500 Armored Personnel Carriers
100 Howitzers and 100 Light Mortar Teams
1 Surface-to-Surface rocket launcher
Division Commander: General Moreau

TPG Divisions

15th Mechanized Infantry: 20,000 Troops
500 Armored Personnel Carriers
100 Howitzers and 100 Light Mortar Teams
1 Surface-to-Surface rocket launcher
Division Commander: General Lautenberg

16th Mechanized Infantry: 20,000 Troops
500 Armored Personnel Carriers
100 Howitzers and 100 Light Mortar Teams
1 Surface-to-Surface rocket launcher
Division Commander: General Fredrick

17th Armored: 20,000 Troops
500 Heavy Tanks
500 Armored Personnel Carriers
50 Howitzers and 50 Heavy Mortar Teams
Division Commander: General Smith

19th Artillery: 20,000 Troops/Gunnery Personnel
250 Self Propelled Artillery Pieces
500 Howitzers
200 Gun Howitzers
5 surface to surface rocket launchers
Division Commander: General Jackson

The 1st and 17th Armored are spearheading the flanking movement, followed by the other Divisions, which provide support. All artillery/rocket launchers have been bombarding the SF lines for about an hour, concentrating on first eliminating all opposing artillery and then the opposing positions.

The advance is preformed in a very slow methodical fashion, with an emphasis on avoiding causalities and surprise enemy counter attacks.

While everyone is nicely off-topic, how did that absurd Amestrian trial in absentia of Lady Justice Galdria go?

Guilty, if she goes to Amestria or Amestrian occupied Torontia they will arrest her and throw her in prision for life...

Yep.. reall liberal democracy you have there Amestria. Execute captured prisoners summarily without trial, try foreign nationals on absurd charges.. wonderful.

Yep.. reall liberal democracy you have there Amestria. Execute captured prisoners summarily without trial, try foreign nationals on absurd charges.. wonderful.

They are or may be infected with plague...

And she was free to participate in her defense (under Amestrian law if you refuse to show up to court they move forward without you and you forfit your rights...)

They are or may be infected with plague...
I'm sure your "liberal democracy" uses similarly barbarous methods with your own citizenry when they become ill with plague. :rolleyes:

And she was free to participate in her defense (under Amestrian law if you refuse to show up to court they move forward without you and you forfit your rights...)
I'd ask you to post your "reasoning" for your verdict in the Xirnium High Court rp, but it isn't supposed to be a comedy thread.

I'm sure your "liberal democracy" uses similarly barbarous methods with your own citizenry when they become ill with plague. :rolleyes:


Those "barbarous methods" contained the plague and stopped it from spreading! Thus those methods saved millions of lives (it would not have stopped in Torontia)!

Rubbish, that is merely an excuse to attempt to justify the summary and unlawful execution of captured and defenceless insurgents, nothing more.

Which none of you know of IC at present... (except Kahanistan, and they are not talking)

And the Amestrian Military had full legal authority, so what happened was legal...

The insurgents would all have been hung anyway, since they were going to die anyway why waste resources on them and risk them spreading the plague?

Actually, the way I saw it, or at least the way it was explained to me ICly, the prisoners were going to be hanged anyway by Torontian law, which apparently doesn't provide for fair trials or holding people in quarantined jails... so I was persuaded to go along with it, interpreting it as an act of the sovereign Torontian government and not the Amestrians, and Kahanistanians now, who are merely assisting in the enforcement of laws that we may or may not agree with...

Long story short, it won't hurt relations between Kahanistan and Amestria, but Kahanistan might take an issue with the Torontian government once the conflict ends.

And the Amestrian Military had full legal authority, so what happened was legal...
Murdering people without trial is not lawful, it makes a mockery of the legal justice system. You cannot claim to have any legal authority when your "legal system" doesn't even respect the basic doctrine of a rule of law.