NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok. I’m pretty much over all the OOC crap being posted in the RP thread so it all goes in here now.

Good thinking, this was long over-do...

Anyone wanna know what I find hilarious?

ALL of you, at the start of the campaign, had one mission. CAPTURE TANAKIS.

WEEKS ago Tanakis was flown to McKagan.

Yet you're still killing each other.

HILARIOUS.

Please continue, it makes for a fun show.

OOC:Just a tag for future references.

Anyone wanna know what I find hilarious?

ALL of you, at the start of the campaign, had one mission. CAPTURE TANAKIS.

WEEKS ago Tanakis was flown to McKagan.

Yet you're still killing each other.

HILARIOUS.

Please continue, it makes for a fun show.

Not true. I never intended to capture him. I orignally attacked Torontia to completely destroy them as an example to Kraven and his allies. No one was to survive, but after Tanakis fled their was no reason to do so anymore.

Not true. I never intended to capture him. I orignally attacked Torontia to completely destroy them as an example to Kraven and his allies. No one was to survive, but after Tanakis fled their was no reason to do so anymore.

Ah. I thought you just wanted to GET him, one way or another. That's why Amestria is there, though; and i'm fairly sure that's why everyone else is/was there.

That is probly correct - but they've become preoccupied by squabbling and the new terrorist activities.

Ah. I thought you just wanted to GET him, one way or another. That's why Amestria is there, though; and i'm fairly sure that's why everyone else is/was there.

That was Amestria's origional intent, to capture and lock him up. Amestria only intended at first to play a minor role in the peacekeeping. Then the infighting between the occupiers developed and The Lone Alliance threatened to nuke Torontia. Amestria stepped up to defend Torontia and provide some order... The rest is history...

Should we make a new thread for the actual RP, the other one is way too cluttered now.

Make on called "The Liberation of Torontia" since that's what we're doing now.

Also, I suggest making it closed, since no one else has any say in it now.

ok, ill do that now.

Yeah It's getting crowded.
This war is turning into Amestria's version of the Iraq war.
There will be another post on the Insurgants.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=454259

This is the new thread for the RP - ONLY RP. All OOC stays here - none in there!!!!!!!

Is everyone ok with me saying that after my troops pulled out, I left a 6 man Naval DART team in the nation? Don't worry, Amestria. I'm not going to have them run around killing masses of your soldiers or have a massive armory of weapons and money to supply the insurgents with. Only WAYS of aquiring weapons and aid. I'll have them hold up in some kind of secret compound in the sewer system; and I don't want to have you happen to stumble across them in 3 hours.

Is everyone ok with this? It's just my way of staying the least bit involved with the RP.

Well so long as they not just going to appear out of nowhere and begin killing everything, im fine with it.

If it works right, I wouldn't even have them attacking anyone, at most they'd lend a sniper to something; but I would even do that for a long while. Mostly just to establish that I still have a reason to be involved in this at all; and to enforce anything I feel needs to be done. As long as I agree not to have them roll out a tank division, I hope Amestria will agree not to have a soldier fall into their cavern.

Oh, everyone, can we start doing now in depth RP'ing?

I'm not a fan of "The trucks all near and pass over the border" as much as I am having a more "personal" feeling to it. On top of that, some posts have been pushing godmodding in recent days. Could we all take it much SLOWER and calmer?

Oh, everyone, can we start doing now in depth RP'ing?

I'm not a fan of "The trucks all near and pass over the border" as much as I am having a more "personal" feeling to it. On top of that, some posts have been pushing godmodding in recent days. Could we all take it much SLOWER and calmer?

Agreed.

There nothing more i hate in NS than stuff like this.

-Anchorage-
8 More trucks departed led by a 2 Armored Cars.

IC: The Torontian government in Vancouver takes steps to quickly restore power to the southern parts of the city.

This doesn't tell us anything. What's in the trucks, where are they going, how was power restored, what steps, how are they going to prevent it from happening again.

Come on people - RPing is about a story - and a good one - not one thats built by everybody taking turns to insert 3 words. Use characters too, not just government messages and the like. As some good writer person said once (Don't ask i don't remember) characters make the story - the more you've got, the more you write about their thoughts and actions - the better the story.

I'd like to see more character usage, as well. That doesn't mean you have to have the complete history of a character. Take my Marine raid for instance. I named ONE character there, that's not even needed though. Keep your stuff straight, and you can keep refering to everyone as "the soldier who was watching the rear of the vehicle" and like that.

Oh, and no assuming that your attack will kill people. Amestria, like during your attack on my Marines. You posted how one was mowed down. It may be true that 30 rifles would take him down, but that's still MY place to choose.

Yeah It's getting crowded.
This war is turning into Amestria's version of the Iraq war.
There will be another post on the Insurgants.

The violence is only in BC and the rest of Amestrian occupied Torontia is peaceful. Of the 6000+ Amestrians killed in Torontia so far, I would say less then 100 have been killed by insurgents. The majority of the Amestrian losses where caused by Red Tides sneak attack and naval battle. Also, Amestria is a nation of over one billion people, so those are, from a statistical sense, small losses.

I've still got Inquisitors operating in Torontia. I wouldn't mind a character driven-rp. What do you suggest?

The violence is only in BC and the rest of Amestrian occupied Torontia is peaceful. Of the 6000+ Amestrians killed in Torontia so far, I would say less then 100 have been killed by insurgents. The majority of the Amestrian losses where caused by Red Tides sneak attack and naval battle. Also, Amestria is a nation of over one billion people, so those are, from a statistical sense, small losses.


You shoulda seened the Saharistan war, which torontia is all to familar with, i got nuked and lost 5 million of my 12 million civilians, and his whole nation was whiped out, and then nuked twice, then came insergents, islamic jihad, peace, more insergents, islamic jihad...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=420218&page=1&pp=15

Agreed.

This doesn't tell us anything. What's in the trucks, where are they going, how was power restored, what steps, how are they going to prevent it from happening again.

Come on people - RPing is about a story - and a good one - not one thats built by everybody taking turns to insert 3 words. Use characters too, not just government messages and the like. As some good writer person said once (Don't ask i don't remember) characters make the story - the more you've got, the more you write about their thoughts and actions - the better the story.

Well I DID have a good one about a person (A named character) getting stopped by the border guards in one of the trucks. He demanded their surrender and when they carted him away the Truck Exploded destroying the APC guarding the Road. But then Amestria started bitching saying it was blocked and so on so I had to go nevermind. So Now I'll have to do OVERKILL on that single Platoon sized Checkpoint in order to just continue to RP. So that's why I haven't posted, I'm working on the OVERKILL storyline becuase I have no other choice. He'll block everything else.


Yes I'm a little bitter over that fact if you didn't notice.

No, I was bitching over the fact that the border was CLOSED! No one could cross it either way, that is what is meant by closed. For any "trucks" to get in they would have to blow their way through, because the border is closed (your post had the border still open with people crossing). Thats why countries close their borders, to keep foreigners from comming in and their own citizens from leaving (by road, air, and public transport anyway; insurgents are free to walk over the mountains).

As long as I agree not to have them roll out a tank division, I hope Amestria will agree not to have a soldier fall into their cavern.

Amestria has no tank divisions in Torontia.

How serious is the insurgency in Torontia, I just want to get a vague background for a brief rp.

900 people (give or take 100) in BC with bombs and guns provided by The Lone Alliance are killing Torontian and Amestrian soldiers. Amestria/Torontia has 220,000 troops in BC with another 180,000 on way. The Lone Alliance is trying to smuggle aid in by blowing through a closed border, which should be interesting...

At present that is about it...

Excellent, thankyou.

Xirnium, by the way, the broadcast did reach Torontia. It was that broadcast which prompted the Amestrian Occupation Authority to begin blocking out unapproved foreign signals.

But you blocked most of it right?

No time, whole thing got through and the insurgents taped it. However, measures have been implemented so it could not happen again.

Ahh, damn. Well I'll go edit then.

900 people (give or take 100) in BC with bombs and guns provided by The Lone Alliance are killing Torontian and Amestrian soldiers. Amestria/Torontia has 220,000 troops in BC with another 180,000 on way. The Lone Alliance is trying to smuggle aid in by blowing through a closed border, which should be interesting...

At present that is about it...

Actually it's only a Rogue Faction in the Lone Alliance that is doing all this. And it's around 800 now, you've killed the rest. And the goal is actually to sabatoge Vancouver until there is no reason for the soldiers to stay there.

And a short BIO on Mark Bovern:

Born In Torontia, Part of the failed first uprising against Paul Kaufman.
Worked under the Gay and Socialist Government, took shelter when Tanakis came to power. For his work in the first uprising he is considered a hero to some of the anti-Tanakis people.

Amestria has no tank divisions in Torontia.

I meant I didn't have MY DART team roll out a tank division.

Xirnium, your government has NO reason to suspect McKagan of having a special forces squad there. NONE. All futher posts of which apply that will be labeled a GODMOD and ignored.

Thank you,

Xirnium could have learned of the Mckagan pressence from an Insurgent with lose lips...

NO. I'm not standing for that. Everyone has been doing that this whole RP. Just happening to "learn" of things. No. I'm not letting it happen. If people keep trying to pull this, I declare that the insurgency was sucessful and reinstall Tanakis. Is it really worth it? No. There is NO way he could have learned of it. End of discussion.

I was just pointing out that the Mckagan pressence cannot stay secret for long. You can't train over 100 people and expect them all to keep silient. Something will happen, a recruiter will blap too much to a potential recruit who has second thoughts, an insurgent will be captured and might confess (otherwise he would be executed for treason), rival insurgents will learn of the pro-Tanakis group and leak about them in order to bring about their destruction...est...

To say you can keep something that is carried out in a semi-public way (recruiting of insurgents) and involving a large number of people (100+) 100% secret is itself a godmod in my opinion. As for how Xirnium learned it, or why Xirnium could not learn it, that for you to discuss with them. It will be a while before Amestria finds out about the Mckagan element, so do not worry...

Whoa now, hold on.

I'm not saying it's possible to keep someone from finding out about the insurgents being TRAINED. I'm saying it's possible to keep them from finding out who's training THEM. It's being kept secret even from the insurgents that it's us who's training them.

From there, no one can say a captured insurgent leads them to the complex, either. After arriving in the cave, which has more than one pathway, btw, the people are blindfolded in the FRONT of it. They most they could tell would be where the cave is. To get to the complex there is a LARGE number of caves that have to be covered; alot of places for a silenced machine gun turret to be hidden.

It's just the matter of the thing. I wouldn't mind someone saying "we think it's foreign aid," as that's a very possible outcome. I just don't want you people to say one post that your government thinks I retreated cowardly and the next that your government thinks we're still bravely supporting the insurgents.

Firstly, I don't think it unfeasible that after diverting all my resources to discovering who is behind the insurgency that it could be discovered who is possibly organising it. It's only a theory, according to the Inquisitor.

Secondly, this was to be the end of my involvement with the insurgency. To be honest, Xirnium couldn't care less who is funding the terrorists so long as it isn't our ally Stoddenia. This is part of a different but related rp I am having somewhere else. Also we'd be glad if Amestria gets a bloody nose for its meddling in Xirnium's affairs.

That said, if you really insist on it I will remove the reference to your nation. I didn't realise that not even your insurgents knew who was training them, or even had the faintest idea.

Better post IC as to how far they are going to maintain their secrecy, because you do not provide details IC. That is probably how Xirnium got confused, you described it in a way that sounded more public then you intended.

Also, it is not a leap of logic to identify foreign elements behind one faction of the insurgency and then suspect Mckagan (who occupied the area, supplied the rioters, is accused by Amestria of supporting terrorism in Torontia, est.).

To state it matter of factly is godmoding, but to say they suspect is reasonable (who else would be involved?)

Its a moot point anyway because Xirnium does not care and its relations with Amestria is at a low point (Boon called their nation "a pathetic, tin-pot, religious dictatorship with an axe to grind")

I labelled the report "Most Secret / Highly Encrypted" and also said that the insurgency was of absolutely no concern to Xirnium nor did they particularly care what would happen to Amestria. I would have thought that pretty much confirmed that the Inquisiton won't be telling anyone anything, but I can make it more explicit if you like.

McKagan, I'd like you to give me your final directions for what you want me to change to pass your "IGNORE" test, so I can get on with the real rp elsewhere.

I understand I need to make an IC post regarding the security of the operation. Xirnium did nothing wrong with his post, considering the way I decribed (or didn't) the situation. I'll make a reference post with the information in a few minutes, kay?

Also, it is not a leap of logic to identify foreign elements behind one faction of the insurgency and then suspect Mckagan (who occupied the area, supplied the rioters, is accused by Amestria of supporting terrorism in Torontia, est.).

To state it matter of factly is godmoding, but to say they suspect is reasonable (who else would be involved?)

Its a moot point anyway because Xirnium does not care and its relations with Amestria is at a low point (Boon called their nation "a pathetic, tin-pot, religious dictatorship with an axe to grind")

It's not that it's not impossible for your government to suspect mine of helping the insurgents, it's everything else you're doing. You make your government talk about how the McKagan forces had to run away and all. Now that's fine, but if the government came out and announced in the same week that we were aiding the insurgents; EVERYONE would believe that one of the points was fiction. It would end up split.

It's not that it's not impossible for your government to suspect mine of helping the insurgents, it's everything else you're doing. You make your government talk about how the McKagan forces had to run away and all. Now that's fine, but if the government came out and announced in the same week that we were aiding the insurgents; EVERYONE would believe that one of the points was fiction. It would end up split.

Just a slight point. Xirnium has nothing at all to do with Amestria and its presence in Torontia is not even concerned primarily with the insurgency. We don't share anything with Amestria except insults, we certainly aren't sharing the Inquisition's intelligence (the Inquisition usually is loath to share intelligence with its own allies, its as hard as drawing blood from a stone!).

Anyway, I'd rather if I was able to have a faint idea that your government is involved, so I can finally rule Stoddenia out completely and get on with the other rp. If you really don't want this, however, I will change it. I'll wait for your final word on this matter before editing.

It's not that it's not impossible for your government to suspect mine of helping the insurgents, it's everything else you're doing. You make your government talk about how the McKagan forces had to run away and all. Now that's fine, but if the government came out and announced in the same week that we were aiding the insurgents; EVERYONE would believe that one of the points was fiction. It would end up split.

If you actually look at how the Amestrian forces describe the Mckagans leaving, it has not been "they ran away, cowards!" The riots and fires that accompanied the Mckagan withdraw have been pointed to as further evidence of Mckagan sabotage. Amestria has already accused Mckagan and the Lone Alliance with providing the insurgents with weapons before their withdrawl from BC. So announceing the discovery of continued Mckagan and/or Lone Alliance aid would not create a split if it where to occur...

Just a slight point. Xirnium has nothing at all to do with Amestria and its presence in Torontia is not even concerned primarily with the insurgency. We don't share anything with Amestria except insults, we certainly aren't sharing the Inquisition's intelligence (the Inquisition usually is loath to share intelligence with its own allies, its as hard as drawing blood from a stone!).

Anyway, I'd rather if I was able to have a faint idea that your government is involved, so I can finally rule Stoddenia out completely and get on with the other rp. If you really don't want this, however, I will change it. I'll wait for your final word on this matter before editing.

That is acceptable.

Amestria;

Could you please post some damages and offensive operations surrounding the IED operation.

That is acceptable.

Very well (I'm assuming you refered to the first part of my message, not the second?). That said, I've also made the Inquisitor's conclusion even more vague about McKagan, emphasised that it would be a waste of time and also pointless to investigate the matter further, and explicitly stated the information is secret and known only to the Inquisiton.

Hope that helps, glad we were able to resolve this little issue courteously.

I deleted it, but it still makes no sense, you're bombing your own guards? Where there are potental Survivors?

Your forces are bombing them! The Amestrian command has at this point only been notified of the attack!

Where did you get the idea I was launching an attack?

Well you didn't make it clear enough, Identify who's missiles did it for all I know you could have an artillery position nearby.


Another Reason I'm confused it because the people on my side are also Torontians. (Part of the 2500 that evacuated but returned)

I deleted it, but it still makes no sense, you're bombing your own guards? Where there are potental Survivors?

It's NS. It doesn't HAVE to make sense.

During a Saharistan War spinoff operation I destroyed a checkpoint because it was attacked by insurgents who had heavy weapons and tanks that my forces were unable to defend or reinforce.

Another Reason I'm confused it because the people on my side are also Torontians. (Part of the 2500 that evacuated but returned)

You did not exactly make that clear, that they were Torontian. What do I refer to them as? What are they to be called?

Can you provide them with a name and spellout IC that they are Torontian expatriots...

I have edited the origional post to make it more clear, that the attackers destroyed the border post with their superior fire-power.

Mckagan, just to point out, the insurgents cannot move into South Torontia because there is water between BC and the Olympic Peninsula. All travel between BC and the rest of Torontia has been discontinued. If they were to move south by land they would have to go through the Saint Fedski zone...

Mckagan, just to point out, the insurgents cannot move into South Torontia because there is water between BC and the Olympic Peninsula. All travel between BC and the rest of Torontia has been discontinued. If they were to move south by land they would have to go through the Saint Fedski zone...

Sorry bout that, but it's still not THAT big of a problem, I would think, only in the description.

Basically, I put them in a rural setting, that's all that matters. :p

Please edit it so it says South BC, so it is clear and there is no confusion...

Ok, I'll do that in a second; but just a bit if a nitpick here. I don't want to whine, but shouldn't the casulties be a BIT higher? I got less casulties out of DIRECT attacks than I did out of INDIRECT attacks?

There is only 150 insurgents conducting hit and run attacks (not direct, they would not survive a direct attack), that is a very small amount which produces even smaller Casualties...

In Iraq, to use a current example, the insurgents kill roughly one American a day, and they have several thousand members (estimated at 16,000).

In fact Amestria's losses are high as the troops have just arrived and are unprepared mentally for the battling of an insurgency...

I meant focusing the majority of their firepower on your troops, and not just anyone who happens to be driving near an IED. Also, 150 is quiet alot when it's attacking a single convoy and then moving on to another, or split at around 70 and attacking two at once.

I meant focusing the majority of their firepower on your troops, and not just anyone who happens to be driving near an IED. Also, 150 is quiet alot when it's attacking a single convoy and then moving on to another, or split at around 70 and attacking two at once.

You posted they had been split into smaller groups. They are attacking troops with:

1. Top of the line weapons
2. Body Armor!
3. Armored Transports
4. Large Convoys

In addition how many of these insurgents have a military backround? That # verses the Amestrian/Torontian soldiers who are militarily trained. You may have a low opinon of the Amestrian military, but let me point out that those insurgents are not your commandos...

Ah,

Meh, true that. I also didn't see that the injury level's were higher than I thought. It's acceptable, and I'll point out that I like our current line of attack/counter attack RP'ing.

This is a reference post, but I didn't want to put it in the IC thread because it might disrupt the current flow.

The Torontia insurgency leaders (the DART team) circulate propaganda among the insurgent ranks. The Torontia Liberation Army doesn't have a mentality like the VietCong, where anyone is disposable and suicide attacks are more than allowed. The flyers are more like that of the U.S. Army than anything, containing information on how they are an "army of one." Another thing the TLA doesn't doesn't share with the VC and other insurgencies is that it doesn't "lie" to it's soldiers, making them think they are a superior force. They are told in every other sentence in instruction manuels "... because you are most likely not an expert..."

Manuals are different from real life. It would take awhile to sink in and for them to become truely effective fighters... I already guessed that suicide attacks were not part of the rebels stratigy, Torontia being Western and all that...

Thanks for the reference post...

*Erin sent a message to the fact finding mission, informed them of the procedures necessary for extraction and then sent the freq. The team then set out. It would take them quite a long time to get from the point that they were at to the point where they were going. Erin only hoped that the Empire would wait. Meanwhile, the diplomats decided that it would be better just to contact Yallak's frequency from out in the countryside, informed them of the grid and awaited extraction.*

I'm confused. Are they making their way to where i said or are they contacting me to pick them up?? Or are the diplomats another group of people?

I'm confused. Are they making their way to where i said or are they contacting me to pick them up?? Or are the diplomats another group of people?

They are making their way to the contact point. Sorry about the confusion. I was a bit distracted. I just OOC had my president assassinated at the peace conference... Killer is IC unknown...

They are making their way to the contact point. Sorry about the confusion. I was a bit distracted. I just OOC had my president assassinated at the peace conference... Killer is IC unknown...

Ok. So the diplomats are another group of people you want picked up?

Ok. So the diplomats are another group of people you want picked up?

No, the fact finding mission were members of Erin's staff. This is why I refer to them as "diplomats"

Well Stoddenia's president has just been shot, this isn't good for anyone's morale. Well I can always blame Amestria.

There is no proof Amestria was involved, but they are openly happy about it (what do you expect when he incited violence against Amestrian soldiers?)...

The Hatarian Spynet was large and well trained. Hatarian Spies had found out thet The "Black Hand of Nod" was planning on killing Hatarian Government Officals. The Hatarian Military High Command soon decided to destroy the threat by Finding the BHN Base and Destroying it.

Spy Satellites were soon seraching the Planet for the Base, while Master Spy, Asuka Ying Lang, was sent to find info on The Black hand of Nod.
I'm sick of Hataria godmoding against me, First they hear my 'secret' IC then they hear a verbal conversation in a Base they can't even find!!! So.

(OOC: Ignoring post. Your 'spynet' can't hear a verbal conversation in a sealed room, quit your godmoding, the Black hand is only Guessing, you have no reason to think they have any plans about you.)

Amestria: After you lauched your counter insurgency post where you sent a taskforce into the countryside I posted a response to it.

Remember; just because these people aren't expert snipers doesn't mean they're not good. They'll hit the exact same percentage of targets as a Navy SEAL, just at a much shorter range. Once an enemy comes into range of the sniper, he is also in a field of claymores.

Link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9944857&postcount=18)

Yes, I will respond to it once I respond to the Lone Alliance incursion to the North (which is taking place in hours while the woodland conflict between the Amestrian soldiers and the rebels is taking place over days).

Several Things I have Considered in Making Calculating losses:
1. The area the battle is taking place in would be unfamilar to the majority of combatants on both sides.
2. There is the issue of "how many insurgents have carried out a woodland ambush before?"

Then there is the question of the weather, rain or shine (this is important, you decide)?

Meanwhile: How successful are the Amestrian/Torontian interogations in extracting information (and how many are hanged)?


On the matter of Stoddenia: I am not taking issue with what Stoddenia said, Stoddenia's government can say whatever it likes, but the majority of it is untrue and I would like to state that for clarity. Most nations with a little research would discover the following (just stating it here for convience).

1. Amestria never accused Stoddenia of having WMD's, in fact Amestria labled such charges as "without merit".
2. Amestria accused Stoddenia of supporting Terrorism in Torontia and hyjacking Torontian sattelites (which Stoddenia did, it is debatable how much of an effect Stoddenai had, but they encouraged Terrorism).
3. Amestria never threatened military force against Stoddenia and never positioned any military forces for use against Stoddenia.

1) Weather. Goes from a light, misty rain in to a foggy midst. Changes from area to area over time.

2) I don't care what happens to the insurgents you capture. Hang them, all of them, it's your decision on what you want to happen down the road: But you're not going to get much out of them because they're not being told plans for what happens weeks ahead. They are given a mission and told it will aid in the liberation.

On the matter of Stoddenia: I am not taking issue with what Stoddenia said, Stoddenia's government can say whatever it likes, but the majority of it is untrue and I would like to state that for clarity. Most nations with a little research would discover the following (just stating it here for convience).

1. Amestria never accused Stoddenia of having WMD's, in fact Amestria labled such charges as "without merit".
2. Amestria accused Stoddenia of supporting Terrorism in Torontia and hyjacking Torontian sattelites (which Stoddenia did, it is debatable how much of an effect Stoddenai had, but they encouraged Terrorism).
3. Amestria never threatened military force against Stoddenia and never positioned any military forces for use against Stoddenia.


However we must warn Stoddenia – do not throw accusations about Amestria around without hard proof or you will place your nation in among others like Kravania and Hataria – outcast by the international community for your arrogance.

OOC: While our country has a laundry list of things against Amestria, they are correct and we were wrong about saying they supported the WMD claim and have denied that they believe these claims publicly... That's our mistake. However, They have themselves agreed that they believe we are supporting terrorism. And their own claims, that they never threatened us with military force... Here are their words

Amestria Public Broadcasting

Reporter: Today Parliament, after much debate among the MP's and an attempted filibuster by a minority faction of the Socialist Party, enacted an Emergency call up of the National Reserves and a Temporary Draft. The legislation had the support of the Centralists, the Social Democrats, the National Democrats, and the Conservative Parties.

Parliament also passed a measure classifying Stoddenia as a 'State Sponsor of Terrorism', which places into effect trade sanctions, gives the President prior Parliamentary approval to employ airpower against the nation, and legalizes the targeting of that countries leadership with assassination. The government has denied however that they had any other intention other then the diplomatic and economic isolation of Stoddenia.

We take that as a threat, and our words were justified...

S

We take that as a threat, and our words were justified...


Amestria did not mean that as a threat, just a signal of its displeasure, and the government denied it had any military intentions. Thus, it was not a threat as far as Amestria was concerned, it Stoddenia wishes to take it as a threat, so be it...


OOC: They have themselves agreed that they believe we are supporting terrorism.


In addition, how is hijacking a nations satellites and voicing public support for forces killing Amestrian/Torontian soldiers not supporting or engaging in terrorism?

Amestria did not mean that as a threat, just a signal of its displeasure, and the government denied it had any military intentions. Thus, it was not a threat as far as Amestria was concerned, it Stoddenia wishes to take it as a threat, so be it...

In addition, how is hijacking a nations satellites and voicing public support for forces killing Amestrian/Torontian soldiers not supporting or engaging in terrorism?


I conceed that this could be construed as "terrorism" by you, especially because it is your national interests in Torontia we were directly targetting with our message; but from our standpoint, it was support of a national liberation movement and ensuring that our message got to the people it was meant to be broadcast to. It's the same thing as your belief that being authorized to "employ airpower" against our nation is just "signaling displeasure" while to our nation, it is a military threat. We deny we were involved with terrorism, while you claimed that we were. You call "national liberation" "terrorism" only because it is your country that the liberation movement, if it did exist as such, would be seeking to liberate itself from. You are not the only actor in this thing that gets to construe terms so it serves your own purposes. We can play propaganda too...

We denied the terrorism claim because we really do not support terrorism. But our definitions of terrorism clearly do not match here. You call terrorism anything that confronts your national policy in an area that you think should belong to your country. We disagree with that definition, and call terrorism "any politically motivated act of violence that lacks sufficient components of liberation theory and serves only the purposes of the organization that conducted it." Under our definition, your occupation of Torontia would fit the definition of terrorism, because you seek to control parts of Torontia and mould its government to protect your interests. See where the confusion over the term as loaded as "terrorism" can come? And yet we never accused your government of terrorism, even when our country's President was shot. We said your policies encouraged that act of violence, while specifically exonerating your nation from the actual act...

We made a mistake about the WMD claim. The other two fall on our side, and we would like to NOT lose our ally because we made one error.

The F-16s take evasive action and deploy their counter measures. They manage to avoid the enemy fire and quickly fly out of range.

"Central Command, we are meeting heavy fire by concentrated elements. We suggest maximum force, over."

"This is Central Command, Rogar That! Clear the Area!"

The fighters fly out of the area. The Amestrian fleet launches 160 Cruise Missiles targeting the area in a checker pattern to maximize effectiveness.



The truck group’s location, under surveillance from an Amestrian Observer, is radioed to Central Command, which is then in turn radioed to the approaching 35 F-16s. They descend and attack.


Lets see here, Amestrian Observers can't see into what is basicly a cave. Dispite how much you claim to control the country you don't have a guy at every single Viewpoint in the country. And it takes a few minutes for F-16s to get there. I should have pointed that out earlier, I would have fired on their first fly over before they began their Missile attack, and boy you sure are 'saving' Torontia, how much of the nation will be left after all the forest fires you are setting.

Oh and it takes time to program 160 Cruise Missiles and launch them, and it takes a few minutes for them to reach the area.


The approaching 35 F-16s combine force with the original 20. After the Cruise Missiles hit they 'will' descend and attack.
So edit it to that, I promise that anyone still in the area after the first cruise missile strike won't survive the F-16s.


It should take at least 10 minutes for those Cruise Missiles and 35 Planes to get near. And Trust me you are going to LOSE some with that high amount of AA power concentration. They're ready for it now. And they weren't heading for the McKagan caves they were in one of those deep trench canyons that are often seen in mountainous Regions. That's what those four that have continued on are about to reach.

So that was the group heading for the caves?

I will edit...

I should have pointed that out earlier, I would have fired on their first fly over before they began their Missile attack,


They would not have time....


and boy you sure are 'saving' Torontia, how much of the nation will be left after all the forest fires you are setting.

Thats rich comming from the nation which started and is prolonging the conflict...

Thats rich comming from the nation which started and is prolonging the conflict...

I just can't help myself. But like I said those F-16s will wipe the floor with whats left of that main convoy.

I just can't help myself. But like I said those F-16s will wipe the floor with whats left of that main convoy.

How many trucks get away or seperated from the main convoy?

We denied the terrorism claim because we really do not support terrorism. But our definitions of terrorism clearly do not match here. You call terrorism anything that confronts your national policy in an area that you think should belong to your country. We disagree with that definition, and call terrorism "any politically motivated act of violence that lacks sufficient components of liberation theory and serves only the purposes of the organization that conducted it." Under our definition, your occupation of Torontia would fit the definition of terrorism, because you seek to control parts of Torontia and mould its government to protect your interests. See where the confusion over the term as loaded as "terrorism" can come? And yet we never accused your government of terrorism, even when our country's President was shot. We said your policies encouraged that act of violence, while specifically exonerating your nation from the actual act...

We made a mistake about the WMD claim. The other two fall on our side, and we would like to NOT lose our ally because we made one error.


First, you should be aware of several things, Amestria has said them in character, but I would like to summarize them here for convenience.

1. Amestria has no territorial designs on Torontia, they are there for Peacekeeping and Restructuring, and after it is all completed, the majority of Amestria's military forces will leave.

2. Amestria is making no money in Torontia and has derived no short-term economic benefit from the Occupation of Torontia. There does stand to be long-term economic benefit from having trade relations with a democratic and liberal Torontia (Amestria did not trade with Torontia while it under the Tanakis regime), but that is hardly imperialism.

3. You seem not to be aware that your good ally Yallak, whose ships are protecting you from the many enemies you have somehow made, is also helping Amestria with its Peacekeeping and Restructuring. Yallak has two million troops in Torontia and has sent forces to BC to aid Amestria in fighting the insurgents. Yallak is in Torontia because Amestria asked (pleaded for) Yallak to come in and help. Therefore, in ranting against Amestria's occupation and inciting violence against its soldiers you are also acting against Yallak... Food for thought!

Amestria's government (acting in character) has come to view Stoddenia's government as a bunch of ignorant, irrational, ideologies. The attitude had pretty much been "how dare they sabotage our good intentions" or "they have no idea what is actually going on here". (I state this so everyone knows the IC rational behind Amestria's policies towards Stoddenia).


Details on the Torontian Provisional Government

The Torontian Provisional Government is not a puppet government, it could have been called that when it first formed, but not at present. The Torontian Provisional Government holds itself as the legitimate government of Torontia, has a Parliament, a Head of State (President Burns), a military, a police force, the beginnings of a court system, and its own laws/policies.

OOC Amestria and the TPG are the same player (me), but IC they are independent entities with mutual goals. Amestria does exert a great deal of power over the TPG for the following reasons.

1. Amestria is paying for the government and thus controls the Torontian Ministry of Finance (to prevent corruption or illegal allocation). Amestria's financial support is necessary due to Tanakis taking off with the treasury, the present situation being ill suited for the collection of new revenue, and Red Tide shelling the financial centers in Seattle (including the National Mint, which was destroyed).

2. Amestrian Military Tribunals have been granted legal authority in those areas of Torontia, which lack an independent or functioning court system.

3. The top leadership of the Torontian National Congress (the governing Political Party) are mostly Torontians who spent time as political refugees in Amestria (Burns for example personally knows both Amestria's current President Boon and Presidential Candidate/MP/Political Leader Liscel).

4. Although technically the TPG is in charge of its own military forces, in reality the Amestrian Occupation Authority exorcises control and has final say on military matters.

This influence however should not be confused for outright control of the whole government.

First, you should be aware of several things, Amestria has said them in character, but I would like to summarize them here for convenience.

1. Amestria has no territorial designs on Torontia, they are there for Peacekeeping and Restructuring, and after it is all completed, the majority of Amestria's military forces will leave.

This has been said by you, but our leaders dismiss it as propaganda, because there is no evidence that any force will be leaving, or is even preparing to leave. The way you guys gobbled up territory at the beginning suggests the exact opposite as a matter of fact. It looked ot me, as I am sure it did to everyone else, like a land grab.


2. Amestria is making no money in Torontia and has derived no short-term economic benefit from the Occupation of Torontia. There does stand to be long-term economic benefit from having trade relations with a democratic and liberal Torontia (Amestria did not trade with Torontia while it under the Tanakis regime), but that is hardly imperialism.

Again, this is not how it seems. You refer to Torontia under your control as "your" sector, and others who have behaved just as you do have confiscated all of the nuclear materials from stockpiles there and this went unchallenged. I am sure if we dig back through the original RP that was abandoned, we will discover who did this, but they raided a nuclear stockpile and skirted the stuff away. What is to keep us from thinking that your country is not doing the same, especially since our government doesn't really trust a word your government says, we are on such lousy terms.

3. You seem not to be aware that your good ally Yallak, whose ships are protecting you from the many enemies you have somehow made, is also helping Amestria with its Peacekeeping and Restructuring. Yallak has two million troops in Torontia and has sent forces to BC to aid Amestria in fighting the insurgents. Yallak is in Torontia because Amestria asked (pleaded for) Yallak to come in and help. Therefore, in ranting against Amestria's occupation and inciting violence against its soldiers you are also acting against Yallak... Food for thought!

1. The difference is that Yallak did not take any territory and set up a government. They are there as a peacekeeping force, true and genuine. You are there to build a government, which, as you admit below, you basically control. Sure you may not have control over the WHOLE government, but you do control the treasury, the military (through final say), many of the courts, and the pursuasions of the top heads of government by putting those refugees who came from YOUR country in charge. It's pretty damned close to the whole thing. Yallak controls its own troops, it left the theater entirely, only to return to assist its allies (you, not Torontia), and is not taking part in the governmental operations of Torontia. I call that a good alliance, and these are the people I would also like as friends... Call me crazy but an ally who can be counted on, hell I would prefer him anyday over one who balks.

2. I wanted to send a fact-finding mission into Torontia to discover the character of the insurgency before I would commit ANY assitance. Your response: to declare All Stoddenians found within Torontia "enemies". A little disproportionate, wouldn't you say? You wouldn't even let me conduct an investigation as to the nature of the insurgency. What else am I supposed to think? You won't even give anyone access to the facts, to find those facts out for themselves, instead we should rely on what we have come to see is nothing but nationalist propaganda from yuor government? We should TRUST that you would tell us the truth? Not likely man. Sure we declared support for national liberation. And sure, through a HUGE effort, we determined that the Black Hand Insurgency was NOT national liberation, and so we would not support it. Our propaganda was designed to promote national liberation, and as you said, most of the people of Torontia took little notice of it. The ones that did were not engaged in what we think they should have been engaged in (i.e. a war of national liberation). But they were already conducting an insurgency, on their own innitiative anyway, so what difference did it make?

4. I have always thought that the reconstruction of Torontia should be a multi-national effort. I mean more than one or two nations who were able to drive all the other ones from the table. You and Saint Fedski put the kabosh to that effort. Why would you not let other nations participate? Did you not think it was necessary? Let me remind you that while you all may have had conflicts with the ntion before this point, it was their threats against my nation that ultimately precipitated their downfall. And it seemed that from the beginning you were dead set on excluding any other nations from the process of rebuilding the country. You all almost went to war over who gets what scraps. So... again, what are we supposed to think? Imperialism? We think so.

Amestria's government (acting in character) has come to view Stoddenia's government as a bunch of ignorant, irrational, ideologies. The attitude had pretty much been "how dare they sabotage our good intentions" or "they have no idea what is actually going on here". (I state this so everyone knows the IC rational behind Amestria's policies towards Stoddenia).

Our government, acting IC has come to see Amestria, as well as all other powers actually occupying (not just militarily, but also politically) lands of Torontia as imperializing powers who are intent on creating a peaceful Torontia, yes, but one that is a sattalite of their own nations. This is evidenced by their closed meetings, lack of elections to put those in Torontia in charge of their own government, fierce defense of territorial integrity from all outsiders, even those with specifically non-military purposes (as evidenced in Amestria making laws limiting foreign access to the Amestrian zone in Torontia), and their near nuclear war over the territory of Tornotia. Our IC government rationale toward Amestria is "These people are straight up lying about why they are there", "They say they are socialist but sure do the Imperialist act really well", and "they need to learn to respect diplomacy, and promote self-determination".

Further evidence of our claims that Amestria is an imperialist power are, as always, found within Amestria's own statement, which I will reprint below, in case anyone forgot what they themselves said. I ask how anyone, with their own statement as evidence against them, CAN'T see, at least, why my nation, IC, follows the course of action regarding Amestria. I am not asking anyone to change their minds on the subject, just trying to explain my own IC actions.


Details on the Torontian Provisional Government

The Torontian Provisional Government is not a puppet government, it could have been called that when it first formed, but not at present. The Torontian Provisional Government holds itself as the legitimate government of Torontia, has a Parliament, a Head of State (President Burns), a military, a police force, the beginnings of a court system, and its own laws/policies.

OOC Amestria and the TPG are the same player (me), but IC they are independent entities with mutual goals. Amestria does exert a great deal of power over the TPG for the following reasons.

1. Amestria is paying for the government and thus controls the Torontian Ministry of Finance (to prevent corruption or illegal allocation). Amestria's financial support is necessary due to Tanakis taking off with the treasury, the present situation being ill suited for the collection of new revenue, and Red Tide shelling the financial centers in Seattle (including the National Mint, which was destroyed).

2. Amestrian Military Tribunals have been granted legal authority in those areas of Torontia, which lack an independent or functioning court system.

3. The top leadership of the Torontian National Congress (the governing Political Party) are mostly Torontians who spent time as political refugees in Amestria (Burns for example personally knows both Amestria's current President Boon and Presidential Candidate/MP/Political Leader Liscel).

4. Although technically the TPG is in charge of its own military forces, in reality the Amestrian Occupation Authority exorcises control and has final say on military matters.

This influence however should not be confused for outright control of the whole government.

Saint Fedski, the Amestrian and the Saint Fedski zones both have equal populations.

I'd like to point out that you cannot have your soldiers "surrounding" my snipers and avoiding this claymores at the same time.

Mckagan, I have a sneaking suspicion that the following is a godmod...


Meanwhile, over the battlefield on a mountaintop, three old Soviet designed AA missile trucks come online to challenge the enemy bombers expected to be in the area.

Where did these trucks come from, how did the insurgents learn to use them? How did they get into the heights, why where they not meantioned before? How could those trucks have gotten past Amestrian checkpoints when the insurgents moved south?!

The Lone Alliance has missile trucks in Torontia, but thats because they blew their way through the border. I am drawing the line at this, Mckagan those AA missile trucks cannot possibly be there, please remove them from the post.

I'd like to point out that you cannot have your soldiers "surrounding" my snipers and avoiding this claymores at the same time.

I posted they set up a perimeter out of range, that is out of sniper range and away from the claymores. The downside is that some sniper positions, as you posted, remain undetected, and the Amestrian troops cannot fire at the insurgents unless the insurgents approach...

They could be left there like everything else; and the people operating them are going to be inexperienced anything. ANYTHING I do is going to be inexperienced. They would have been placed on the mountains secretly, DURING the occupation.

OOC:I dont think they would be Soviet Missiles(like a SA-2, SA-3, or SA-8), more likely a American SAM(like the MIM-23 HAWK) since Torontia WAS using American equipment.

This is the first you have posted on them, and I could have secretly erected 70 nuclear ICBM silos in Torontia in the meantime without putting one post of the subject... When military forces appear without explanation it is a godmod...

Look, large amounts of small arms and expolsive material is one thing, that is easy to give out and spread around, but MISSILE TRUCKS! Your forces never left Vancouver/coastal BC, how where they placed in the heights?!

This is different from your special forces team or arms give outs, this is heavy military equipment, it can't just appear...

Red Tide, we need to restart the peace conference, because it was never finalized and our nations are legaly still at war, hostilities just are ceased... (kind of like the situation with North Korea)

Hey, Amestria, theres been plenty of time for Torontian military equipment to dissappear. For all we know, McKagan could have gotten those from a Torontian Arms Dealer in North Eastern Torontia(which I remind you is STILL unsecure). There is probably a TON of left over Torontian Military equipment that has been stolen up there.

And yes, I was going to bring the peace conference up.

Amestria']This is the first you have posted on them, and I could have secretly erected 70 nuclear ICBM silos in Torontia in the meantime without putting one post of the subject... When military forces appear without explanation it is a godmod...

Look, large amounts of small arms and expolsive material is one thing, that is easy to give out and spread around, but MISSILE TRUCKS! Your forces never left Vancouver/coastal BC, how where they placed in the heights?!

This is different from your special forces team or arms give outs, this is heavy military equipment, it can't just appear...

Where are we fighting? I was under the impression it was still in the area around where my occupation forces were?

It's still only three old Soviet SA systems. You'd know where they were the second their air seach radars came online. I was actually planning on asking if I could have around 30 of them sitting in random storage areas. It's basically a one use thing.

Anyway, if you don't want me to have them right now; I won't. I'll RP getting them into the country. But then it won't be standard old Soviet designs...

Travel between BC and the rest of Torontia has been restricted since Mckagan sent force there, they could not just appear...

Where are we fighting? I was under the impression it was still in the area around where my occupation forces were?


No, your occupation forces where around Vancouver and the coast (you only had 10,000 troops and they were building a fort, not much to control a lot of terratory). This is in interior BC, between the North and South (as you posted).


It's still only three old Soviet SA systems. You'd know where they were the second their air seach radars came online. I was actually planning on asking if I could have around 30 of them sitting in random storage areas. It's basically a one use thing.


Torontia, as Red Tide pointed out, would not have that model.


Anyway, if you don't want me to have them right now; I won't. I'll RP getting them into the country. But then it won't be standard old Soviet designs.

Its fine if you smuggle them into the country, but just to let you know there is a naval blockage and Amestria controls the harbors. Only way to smuggle things in is through the insecure Northern Border...

In the meantime please delete reference to them from the IC posts...

Amestria']Torontia, as Red Tide pointed out, would not have that model.

OOC:Nope! They would most likely have the MIM-23 Hawk, MAYBE some PATRIOT PAC-1s or -2s. Both of those are considerably more advanced then the old Soviet SAMs.

Anyone know how I can log off and resign on, for some reason I keep getting automatically logged on as [NS]Amestria, not Amestria, and it is annoying...

Amestria'] Only way to smuggle things in is through the insecure Northern Border...

HA. Should we bet on that one, my friend?

Amestria']Anyone know how I can log off and resign on, for some reason I keep getting automatically logged on as [NS]Amestria, not Amestria, and it is annoying...

On the forums? No... no idea. Just ignore it, its not htat big of a deal.

HA. Should we bet on that one, my friend?

Yeah, the only ships allowed to dock in BC are those which leave Amestrian controled Torontia and are searched. There are 700+ warships keeping a corden around Torontia's coasts... Only the Northern Border at present...

If you say so....

*mad laughter*

Meanwhile, over the battlefield on a mountaintop, three old Soviet designed AA missile trucks come online to challenge the enemy bombers expected to be in the area.

This still needs to be fixed...

Amestria']Yeah, the only ships allowed to dock in BC are those which leave Amestrian controled Torontia and are searched. There are 700+ warships keeping a corden around Torontia's coasts... Only the Northern Border at present...

If you say so....

*mad laughter*

*Even more evil laughter*

Before someone says it, i KNOW that I didn't RP the crossing of that sub the best I could have. But basically there's nothing Yallak could do to find it with surface ships, and even if he found it with a regular (non deisel) SSN, it would be near to impossible to track it at the depth it would be at.

It appears Yallak has some objections at present...

However it is settled, could you list all Mckagan naval forces in the area for future reference and when you bring new forces in announce them in advance...

Yeah, I'm going to do an update of my forces in the morning; it's late here.

Just to add; don't think the Praetorian's are like some automatic giveaway to foreign aid. Almost ALL nations field one version of it or another on here.

If i were you id stop laughing.

Well, even if i let you get past the 1000 ships with highly advanced anti-submarine detection (as the Imperial fleet doesn't use subs it need the best defences against them - not 700 ships either , more ships arrived several pages ago).

Your big concrete sub would be easily detected when it started popping up supplys on the surface by CAP planes and possibly the surface ships. Not to mention that if you passed under my fleet to land on the coast you've just landed in Yallakian occupied areas - the area where my 2 million soldiers came ashore and established command posts.

Now hold on here.

You've been saying this whole time that the fleet was blocking the WHOLE coastline. Did your troops use the WHOLE coastline to land? I made it VERY clear that we came ashore in an area that hadn't been used in this conflict. Basically, it comes down to this.

The sub was going to an area that HAD NOT BEEN USED IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM. If you say your fleet is only covering the area off the coast of your landing zone; then fine. My sub landed no where near your soldiers and passed no where near your ships.

For all those who believe what I just posted is a giant godmod, look here.

Link (http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/black_triangle_020805.html)

Exactly. The whole coastline - so your sub did pass under my ships. The whole coastline is also under CAP by fighters.

As for where my troops are not, you'll have to be landing either outside Washingtons south border or somewhere near Cape Flattery - if the former then your landing outside Torontia which is fine - if the latter, you can be detected by surface ships or planes, and even if not, that area is surrounded by my troops from Forks to Port Angeles. I landed craploads of men and all of their complementary armour, vehicles and artillery - that required a crapload of space and landing zones all up the coast.

The sub post has been deleted and Mckagan is instead using a stealth blimp...

I found a more effective means of transportation. :)

(OOC)

NONE of the nations occupying Torontia, TG me to ask whether or not I wanted them in my nation.

After Tanakis fled, I was going to RP a new government, however RL business kept me away for a few days. By the time I got back, my nation was gone.

However I still OWN Torontia's account and I could of just IGNORED all foreign presence in my nation and carried on, now I wish I had.

Given some nations insitance that they claim their occupations are going to stay for good now, Amestria is one, I now ask that we can in IC make a thread about ALL nations leaving Torontia.

Otherwise Ill just ignore the lot of you, like I should of done weeks back.

Please check your TGs Torontia.

Look, there is a complex RP going on the fate of Torontia. You can get involved and try to shape it to the way you prefer or you can just be a stick in the mud and ruin everyones fun.

Also, Amestria did not say it was going to stay for good, but it is not going to just up and leave. Not right now, with elections around the corner and the Northern Rebels driven out of Vancouver.

If the Torontian player likes he can get involved again waging an insurgency in the East, but he can't just come in and dictate the path of an open RP, one that has gone on for 100 thread pages, mainly without his comment!

In the end he can, actually.

He owns the nation.

I'm all ears for whatever everyone else wants to do; personally, i've had fun with my insurgency, but I don't want to just take someone's nation like that after he's said he doesn't want it to go in that direction.

Well I have spent a lot of time in Torontia just to walk away with nothing! And I want something I can RP in the future.

What if I simply take Western Torontia , seperate it from the Eastern Sections. He can have the New Order come back in the East and a liberal Democracy can be established in the West. I like that idea...

No one get exactly what they want, but everyone gets something (Amestria has no control in the East anyway).

(OOC)

All irrelevant Amestria.

Im not here for your 'fun'.

You more or less deserve, along with others to be ignored for the simple fact that you did NOT ask me is I wanted to go along with this.

I can't be online on NS all the time as I have RL issues to deal with, Im not some kid in his bedroom who has nothing to do but be online all the time.

I work, Im also starting up my own business, I travel to see people for these two things. I have to pay bills, pay taxes etc.... I don't always have that much free time and if it was not for my insomnia, I would not even be on NS as it is only becuase I don't sleep much (usually I sleep about 3-4 times a week) that Im on here.

I was going to RP a new Torontian government, I was away for two days and then 100s of posts had been made by others who claim they now control my nation.

Well if you had asked in the beginning, we would not have had this problem.

You decided to just take my nation over, well what about my 'fun', now I have no nation to RP with?

Forget Kravania, it's small, Torontia is the only one I really have.

BTW, Im not saying we should just forget about all your threads, just we all agree now to have another IC thread where the foreign troops leave Torontia and allow me to have my regime of choice.

Is that too much to ask?

If it is, Im going to make another thread on Tanakis's return and you lot can fuck off.

Wait now Torontia, i'm holding Tanakis until everything has boiled over and I feel the nation is normal enough for him to be somewhat secure, deal? Alot of people would have SEAL's after him if we don't lock it down first.

You can be polite about it...geez

How about my offer for a Western and Eastern Torontia.

I thought somthing like this could happen so I have already made a Western Torontia. Eastern Torontia can be Torontia while Western Torontia can become the new nation of Western Torontia (just pretend for RP reasons it has 200 million people)

(OOC)
BTW, Im not saying we should just forget about all your threads, just we all agree now to have another IC thread where the foreign troops leave Torontia and allow me to have my regime of choice.

Is that too much to ask?


You are asking us just to leave after all our efforts... Look, there has to be some compromise...

Even though it's understandable that RL takes precedence, I'm afraid to say too much has gone on. So in order to compromise, let's make a divided nation, with East Torontia run by the New Order, and the West run by liberal democratic ideals.

The East has been insecure and poorly governed anyway. Most of the present RP has taken place in the West and the Coasts. Eastern Torontia could easily fall to insurgents if there was enough organization and weapons... (Red Tide2 leaving has created a huge power vaccum)

Since when were you invloved in anything???

Go back to your anti-Kraven activities and stay out of what does not concern you, SouthEastAsia.

If there was a east/west style divide, would the powers of this nation keep forces there, or just support it politically?

Amestria would keep forces in Western Torontia for about two-four years, then pull most of them out. A few airbases and naval stations will remain...

OOC: I'm not involved with the AKA. In fact, the reason why my leaders didn't help them was because they saw the Consortium and AKA as equally horrible. Plus, with Automagfreek's armed forces supporting the Consortium, and with AMF's military known to be some of the strongest in the NS world, it would be military suicide. All my nation did was observe, not send in troops.

Whatever, point is, you never were invloved in Torontia, so stay out of this!

There is also the realism issue, Torontia lost a war and it would be absurd for the old regime to just return to power over the whole of the country, especially after the anti-Torontian elements have established themselves in the West...

OOC: I'm not involved with the AKA. In fact, the reason why my leaders didn't help them was because they saw the Consortium and AKA as equally horrible.

How could they possibily form this opinion? You realise they lobotomise their own citizenry for use in birthing factories right?

You've got to look at MY part in this. Tanakis is mine. I'm not putting a high profile character back into a place where I don't feel safe with him, and if Amestria has the only Torontia coastline (aka, I can't escort him out on a guided missile destroyer if he gets invaded again), I don't feel safe with him there.

How could they possibily form this opinion?

TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, THIS IS ABOUT TORONTIA!

But since my little war is dragging due to RL issues, I'm going to have to get involved with something else.

TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, THIS IS ABOUT TORONTIA!

Easy.. there's no need to scream.

Anyway, if Tanakis comes back expect a full military campaign against him curtesy of a new and improved Xirnium Armed Forces.

And I suppose that having a favorite national pastime of nuking their own citizens is a good thing? (they do know that they don't do it anymore, but they won't forgive severe mistakes for a while)

Easy.. there's no need to scream.

Anyway, if Tanakis comes back expect a full military campaign against him curtesy of a new and improved Xirnium Armed Forces.

And expect not only for the McKagan military to disarm your offensive measures, but to go to your capital city in the process. :)

My solution is the best, Western Torontia, everyone gets something they want and we can have a good all semi-Korean situation later.

Torontia can RP how he wants in the East and in the West I can continue my RP with my characters and governments... The insurgent war in BC can continue as well...

But if you take the coastline, we all DON'T get what we want. If we do that, Tanakis stays in McKagan because I can't control him with naval action.

That is, unless the Amestrian soldiers at the naval stations and airbases in the Western part feel safe sharing the skies with 2-300 UCAV's...

Torontia - Check TG's

But if you take the coastline, we all DON'T get what we want. If we do that, Tanakis stays in McKagan because I can't control him with naval action.

That is, unless the Amestrian soldiers at the naval stations and airbases in the Western part feel safe sharing the skies with 2-300 UCAV's...

Maybe a compromise could be reached where Mckagan and Amestria share influence, also would make for an exciting RP...

And does not Mckagan have airbases surrounding Torontia, since when does it need a navy to influence events...

And expect not only for the McKagan military to disarm your offensive measures, but to go to your capital city in the process. :)

Pfft.. you talk big.

Maybe a compromise could be reached where Mckagan and Amestria share influence, also would make for an exciting RP...

And does not Mckagan have airbases surrounding Torontia, since when does it need a navy to influence events...

If we work it out this way I would be MORE than willing to have a diplomacy RP between us where we discuss how to get along. But no, I don't have any air bases in Torontia at this time. I will after the player takes power, though.

Pfft.. you talk big.

*cracks up into laughter*

OOC: Talk big? ICly, my nation has dealings with the Saharistan War Coalition, and they are amongst the most well-respected, economically and militarily powerful states around. While your military is impressive Xirnium, you're no match against the likes of them.

If we work it out this way I would be MORE than willing to have a diplomacy RP between us where we discuss how to get along. But no, I don't have any air bases in Torontia at this time. I will after the player takes power, though.

Yes, talk to Torontia about it, he is being difficult!

And I said "around"...

OOC: Talk big? ICly, my nation has dealings with the Saharistan War Coalition, and they are amongst the most well-respected, economically and militarily powerful states around. While your military is impressive Xirnium, you're no match against the likes of them.

Whoa.... we have that much influence? We're actually a fairly small alliance! We've got 3-5 nations that are actually "in" it, then one that is only allied with a few of us, and we all have friends that were in the war one way or another but didn't end up in the treaty...

Damn, we're good. :p

OOC: Talk big? ICly, my nation has dealings with the Saharistan War Coalition, and they are amongst the most well-respected, economically and militarily powerful states around. While your military is impressive Xirnium, you're no match against the likes of them.

ICly Xirnium couldn't care less who your nation has had dealings with and who the Saharistan War Coalition is. Torontia is an enemy of Xirnium and has killed Xirnium civilians for no reason. If McKagan wants to get involved in something that doesn't concern him, then good luck.

ICly Xirnium couldn't care less who your nation has had dealings with and who the Saharistan War Coalition is. Torontia is an enemy of Xirnium and has killed Xirnium civilians for no reason. If McKagan wants to get involved in something that doesn't concern him, then good luck.

Doesn't concern me?

Do you realize where Colonel Tanakis is sitting right now, boy?

Doesn't concern me?

The war between Xirnium and Torontia does not concern you.

Im Going For The Total Expulsion Of All Occupiers In Torontia.

Im going to set up a New Order Rebel Group.

I have no interest in dividing my nation with my enemies.

Look out for many nations backing me up pretty soon.

ICly Xirnium couldn't care less who your nation has had dealings with and who the Saharistan War Coalition is. Torontia is an enemy of Xirnium and has killed Xirnium civilians for no reason. If McKagan wants to get involved in something that doesn't concern him, then good luck.

Oh, and just an example.

In the Frozopian War, 2 SWC Nations Allied with Red Tide and The Lone Alliance attacked Frozopia. The Imperial McKagan Air Force, in under 1 week, burned several major cities to the ground to break the spirit of the enemy. Then, in under 72 hours, ALL the nations infratructure was knocked offline.

This was done with the combined loss of under 15 pilots.

That's before I even switched to UCAV based fighters.

Now you'd be up against unmanned planes pulling 30 G's and flying through your lines at Mach 12. :)

The war between Xirnium and Torontia does not concern you.

Dude do you have ANY knowlege of this RP?

I've supported Tanakis the whole time, Tanakis is sitting in an Air Force Base in my nation right now. Should he be moved into Torontia, he would be under our FULL protection. At which point you trying to kill him WOULD concern me, and IMAF. :)

Now you'd be up against unmanned planes pulling 30 G's and flying through your lines at Mach 12.

Just as long as we're godmodding I can drop 5,000 kg of Xirnium-enhanced Botulin toxin on Torontia, enough to kill all life on Earth 300,000 times over... :rolleyes:

Dude do you have ANY knowlege of this RP?

I've supported Tanakis the whole time, Tanakis is sitting in an Air Force Base in my nation right now. Should he be moved into Torontia, he would be under our FULL protection. At which point you trying to kill him WOULD concern me, and IMAF. :)

Of course I have knowledge of this RP. But ICly Xirnium knows nothing about you, your holding Tanakis is not public. The Xirnium-Torontia war had nothing at all to do with you.

Just as long as we're godmodding I can drop 5,000 kg of Xirnium-enhanced Botulin toxin on Torontia, enough to kill all life on Earth 300,000 times over... :rolleyes:

What part of that is godmodding?

In a few years that'll be out dated.

[OOC:
Ok, although you all think I have nothing to do with this, I had a spy submarine deployed back in the first pages of the original thread, and have kept an eye on all situational dealings since day one.

Seriously, I'm with Torontia on this. This got way out of hand, and he wasn't even invited to his own nations invasion. The best thing would definatly be Tanakis in one half, and Amestria in the other half. From there you would either have a stand off or a war, and one of those can determine who gets the whole country.

If that situation does come about, the winner would definatly be Tanakis and his allies over Amestria and his allies. The SWC has alot of friends, including myself, that would rush to back McKagan. (BTW McKagan am I currently a member or like a best friend of the SWC but not in it?)

Of course I have knowledge of this RP. But ICly Xirnium knows nothing about you, your holding Tanakis is not public. The Xirnium-Torontia war had nothing at all to do with you.

Ah,

Then I'd bomb you anyway. :)

In a few years that'll be out dated.

Fighters flying at Mach 12 and pulling 30gs are absurd. The statement is rubbish.

(BTW McKagan am I currently a member or like a best friend of the SWC but not in it?)

I don't know if you're in it or not. You SHOULD be, but we've never really asked; but we've always been on the same good relations as McKagan is with other SWC nations.

Ah,

Then I'd bomb you anyway. :)

Like I said before, good luck.

Fighters flying at Mach 12 and pulling 30gs are absurd.

Erm... no, RL fighters could probably get near that without the pilot; NS fighters can DEFINATELY do it without the pilot.

AH, Actually the 30 G's part probably is a bit high. I had it rated at "20+," and decided to round it up. :p

We'll settle for 20.

Erm... no, RL fighters could probably get near that without the pilot; NS fighters can DEFINATELY do it without the pilot.

Rubbish, not even air-to-air missiles go anywhere near that in real life. Pilots do not "get near that without the pilot", that's just foolish. Nothing gets near that. Your aircraft are a godmod.

Can we get back to Torontia please... Mckagan talk to the Torontia player, he is being totally unreasonable and I have offered a lot of compromises...

Rubbish, not even air-to-air missiles go anywhere near that in real life. Your aircraft are godmod.

It's called a UCAV. Learn about them. Unmanned. By 2050 that's what the US will be fielding.

Ok, at most, I would decrease it to Mach 6; since 12 is a few generations ahead of what I am going for out of the Vick program.

Still, those would be vastly superior to anything you'd be able to field (in a great quantity)

It's called a UCAV. Learn about them. Unmanned. By 2050 that's what the US will be fielding.

Hehe, nope, don't know where you figured that from. Next time you find a UCAV that can travel more then four times the speed of a bullet fired from a high-powered rifle and 18.5 times the speed of modern UCAVs you let me know so I can add them to my godmod arsenal.

If a missile can't travel that fast your godmod UCAVs sure can't.

Look at my updated ratings. 20 G's and mach 6.

Look, NS planes are GENERATIONS ahead of REAL LIFE. By your reasoning, everything on NS is a godmod.

Just to make sure you understand, there are no "modern" UCAV's. UAV's are recon flights that are extremly slow. A UCAV is taking an advance fighter and putting a computer to pilot it.

Just to make sure you understand, there are no "modern" UCAV's.

There are, actually.. the Taifun for example. Just to make sure you understand. :rolleyes:

OOC:Actually, Mach-12 is insanely fast, unless properly shielded, the heat caused by the air friction that results at that speed would destroy the aircraft.

Which is why I downgraded it.

Of course, some people will get mad if I have anything more than an F-16, but we can just ignore them anyway.

To All Nations/RP players.

I have had endless 'discussion' with Amestria which is going NOWHERE!

This is how I intend to become involved in the Torontian situation.

I RP a rebel group that is pro-New Order and Tanakis.

Tanakis resides in McKagan until and IF Torontia is put back under New Order control and the occupiers are booted out.

I will have Kraven and his allies on my side, they help and intervene in the way they choose too.

My Rebel group fights the enemies and the war will either result in my victory or a win for the occupiers.

That sounds quite fair.

My Rebel group fights the enemies and the war will either result in my victory or a win for the occupiers.
lol that's like saying either you go up, or I go down while sitting on a teeter-totter.

If everyone else agrees then I will have no choice on the issue, but I have two demands of my own!

1. The Torontian rebels have to arise in the East (the West is too secure and I like playing with Mckagan at present with the BC insurgents)

2. The conflict remain restricted to Torontia, no global war! (and we keep using the liberation of Torontia thread!)

I never said global war, well at least not Torontia being a part of it anyways.

I will have Kraven help me in Torontia, the battlefields will be here.

Kraven troops will be in Torontia, fighting the enemy forces.

If Kraven wants to invade Amestria, then thats another war for the future.

This is the here and now, I and my allies fight here.

Yes, I am definitely against the global war too. The few nations that have been fighting over Torontia have built up a lot of tension that could explode creating a free for all which would be like a mini-global war within the confines of Torontia. If it arises in the east, you guys will have to be patient with me, I work nights (Which is when I'm usually on and when you're on as well) so I won't be able to respond anywhere near as much as I once did. I'll ask that a small limit be put on the amount of posts so I can still be involved.

I never said global war, well at least not Torontia being a part of it anyways.

I will have Kraven help me in Torontia, the battlefields will be here.

Kraven troops will be in Torontia, fighting the enemy forces.

If Kraven wants to invade Amestria, then thats another war for the future.

This is the here and now, I and my allies fight here.

Except, Isn't Kravania under threat of invasion right now from Xirnium? How can they committ abroad when their country is being invaded?

Kraven Croporation NOT Kravania.

Those two nations are different.

I propose we create a new Torontia OOC thread, as this one has become too full due to the present argument, which is now resolved in a way everyone can find satisfactory...

And the arguements about jet fighter speed, yawn!

Kraven Croporation NOT Kravania.

Those two nations are different.


My mistake.

I'm about done with this RP. It's been fun, I've tested alot of new things but I'm getting into a stalemate.

Its been fun...

The Consortium has decided that it is more beneficial for us if we were to make an allie of torontia and tanakis, depending on the views of the other consortium members, then we will prepare to mobilise against those who threaten Torontia

(FYI: I talked to a view weapons designers around here, and my Mach 12 30 G's plane IS possible, just at a high altitude. Sorry people, I had to finish it. :p )

I'm just going to let you guys do whatever it is you want. I'm keeping my insurgency going, and Tanakis isn't leaving McKagan until Torontia is SAFE.

The Consortium has decided that it is more beneficial for us if we were to make an allie of torontia and tanakis, depending on the views of the other consortium members, then we will prepare to mobilise against those who threaten Torontia
This is for OOC comments only so you need to post in the actual thread for it to count.

This is for OOC comments only so you need to post in the actual thread for it to count.

erm... yes, i am fully aware of this, and it was an ooc statement declaring my ooc intention to get involved... *Note to self - IC/OOC lines are bluring... Pay more attention*

Ive sent in a reichmarshal and a body guard of two capitol police, they are in Mckagan to see Tanakis, i avoided the whole arriving posts as they just slow down the RP, and seeing as tanakis is a guest more than a prisoner, i would assume he would be allowed visitors :)

Tanakis pretty much has a mini-skyscraper to himself, at least no other high profile people are kept there. He's allowed visitors, although his room has been covertly bugged (which he'd probably think about anyway) and whenever he has visitors there's at least 1 IMAF Security Officer inside the room.

Tanakis pretty much has a mini-skyscraper to himself, at least no other high profile people are kept there. He's allowed visitors, although his room has been covertly bugged (which he'd probably think about anyway) and whenever he has visitors there's at least 1 IMAF Security Officer inside the room.

ok cool, no worries

I find it interesting how this whole insurgency has basically turned into Amestria's Iraq. I imagine the Amestrian populace probably isn't too happy with Burns for letting more sons of Amestria die in Torontia.

I find it interesting how this whole insurgency has basically turned into Amestria's Iraq. I imagine the Amestrian populace probably isn't too happy with Burns for letting more sons of Amestria die in Torontia.

Wait for me to get frustrated. :)

I find it interesting how this whole insurgency has basically turned into Amestria's Iraq. I imagine the Amestrian populace probably isn't too happy with Burns for letting more sons of Amestria die in Torontia.
Well considering Half of the entire Resistance movement has just allied with the Government, I would think that would Raise Morale a little.

I find it interesting how this whole insurgency has basically turned into Amestria's Iraq. I imagine the Amestrian populace probably isn't too happy with Burns for letting more sons of Amestria die in Torontia.

Burns is the Torontian President (TPG).

The President of Amestria is Daniel F. Boon, who is in his last months of office until the Amestrian Presidential and Parliamentary Elections. After leaving office, he plans to assume a noble title, retire to an estate, become an elder statesman, and smoke weed. Torontia will soon be a matter for his successor to deal with.

Torontia is also hardly an Iraq; the occupation has been exceptionally handled. The Amestrian zone is stable and peaceful (minus BC) with rebuilding efforts moving forward. What there is of a pro-Tanakis insurgency is foreign sponsored, small and has been isolated to the BC region. The TPG's military has well over a million soldiers assisting Amestria. In the Amestrian zone, local elections will soon be held... Less then a 100 Amestrians have died from fighting the insurgency. Almost all of Amestria's casualties came from the Red Tide sneak attack and subsequent 24-hour war...

The Amestrian populace, although anxious about the emergency draft, currently support their governments actions. So far, the general and professional impression has been one of success (I would also like to point out that the average Amestrian has a high level college education, they are very well informed as to what is happening).

Just as important, the Amestrian Military is determined to succeed and has hinted to the political class that they would not accept a premature pullout (the Amestrian Military has a past history of political interference, which they have not quite grown out of).

Half of Torontia is in anarchy, the New Order is resurgent, foreign nations are preparing to invade Torontia as we speak, conscription is being introduced to fight a war no one cares about half way across the world and the military is considering the possibility of a coup. Yep, it’s all going wonderfully. ;)

Anyway, Amestria has little power over the situation in Eastern Torontia, that is Saint Fedski defacto zone...

And the military is not plotting a coup, they just would not obey the orders to leave Torontia, an unpleasant situation everyone wishes to avoid...

Anyway, Amestria has little power over the situation in Eastern Torontia, that is Saint Fedski defacto zone...

I believe Saint Fedski's zone is de jure rather then de facto. In reality they seem to not have any meaningful control over it (to an outside observer).

And the military is not plotting a coup, they just would not obey the orders to leave Torontia, an unpleasant situation everyone wishes to avoid...

My apologies, so we have a potentially mutinous Amestrian military rather than a potentially treasonous one. ;)

Half of Torontia is in anarchy, the New Order is resurgent, foreign nations are preparing to invade Torontia as we speak, conscription is being introduced to fight a war no one cares about half way across the world and the military is considering the possibility of a coup. Yep, it’s all going wonderfully. ;)

That's kind of what I was thinking...:p

Ah, well, I might be around to rabble-rouse and raise hell for your men...maybe a couple of aid packages for the revolutionaries. Just wait until Tanakis comes back from hiding...

I believe Saint Fedski's zone is de jure rather then de facto. In reality they seem to not have any meaningful control over it (to an outside observer).

They have refused to cooperate in any meaningful way with Yallak and Amestria and have chosen to rely on their own resources.

Amestria's occupation has been an overall success, so far…

That's kind of what I was thinking...:p

Ah, well, I might be around to rabble-rouse and raise hell for your men...maybe a couple of aid packages for the revolutionaries. Just wait until Tanakis comes back from hiding...

There is the issue of the closed Northern Border and a 1000 ship naval blockade... Mckagans had to use a stealth blimp to smuggle in aid...

How do you think the average Halberdgardian would view working with Kraven? (unless it is a non-issue due to the aid being secret...)

They have refused to cooperate in any meaningful way with Yallak and Amestria and have chosen to rely on their own resources.

So are you saying it's neither de jure nor de facto? Not only unrecognised legally but also not even a political fact?

So are you saying it's neither de jure nor de facto?

Ask Saint Fedski as to the status of their forces in Eastern Torontia, they could fully answer your questions.

Ask Saint Fedski as to the status of their forces in Eastern Torontia, they could fully answer your questions.
We both know what those answers are.

Not only unrecognised legally but also not even a political fact?

Saint Fedski claims the area is under the protection of the Torontian Interim Government (their puppet government based in Seattle), led by Governor Keanes. Saint Fedski in the past has also claimed leadership of the occupation, although those claims no longer have any real world consequence... Therefore, I suppose their control is legal to them... Not that lawyers will have much effect on what happens…

My apologies, so we have a potentially mutinous Amestrian military rather than a potentially treasonous one. ;)

That from the nation with the god-king and a possible future civil war... ;)

To be properly de jure it needs to be recognised by others though. I'd say neither the Provisional nor Interim governments are strictly speaking de jure, though at least your puppet government seems to be de facto.

That from the nation with the god-king and a possible future civil war... ;)

Not remotely comparable. The High Supreme Court has convicted the God-Emperor of treason and is removing him from office. They do so with the full agreement of the legislature and the military. There is no split anywhere in the country except with him, and the legislature has the full right to do so legally as parliament is supreme in Xirnium. There is no chance of a civil war, the palace will be stormed and Quikzos IV deposed.

To be properly de jure it needs to be recognised by others though. I'd say neither the Provisional nor Interim governments are strictly speaking de jure, though at least your puppet government seems to be de facto.

It is not a puppet government, it is independent, although it relies on Amestrian support.

The TPG's control of Western Torontia is both de facto and de jure (Yallak recognizes it authority over the areas it controls).

That's kind of what I was thinking...:p

Ah, well, I might be around to rabble-rouse and raise hell for your men...maybe a couple of aid packages for the revolutionaries. Just wait until Tanakis comes back from hiding...

Tanakis isn't leaving downtown McKagan City until Torontia is pacified under one government (New Order or Kraven), and I deem it safe. When he does, i'm setting up an entier network of escape routes.

Tanakis isn't leaving downtown McKagan City until Torontia is pacified under one government (New Order or Kraven),.
Not if I can help it *Ka-Click*

There is the issue of the closed Northern Border and a 1000 ship naval blockade... Mckagans had to use a stealth blimp to smuggle in aid...

How do you think the average Halberdgardian would view working with Kraven? (unless it is a non-issue due to the aid being secret...)

Ehh, I'll figure out something. You forget that McKagan and I are very close allies, so I'm sure IMAF wouldn't mind loaning my SpecOps boys the use of a Stealth Blimp for a HALO infil.

And of course any aid will be classified. The HCIA's pulled off several covert interventionist actions in foreign countries without the public's knowledge. The DCI's got some serious clout in my nation, and he uses it. And we're not "working with Kraven," we're "liberating Torontia." We don't like Kraven any more than you and the other "imperialists" do, and, quite frankly, Tanakis doesn't really like Kraven anymore, seeing as he perceives them as having ditched him, and he knows he'll lose significant covert Halberdgardian and McKagan aid if he sides with Kraven.

Saint Fedeski, I would like to point out that the city of Spokane was already annhiliated(in their words, pacified) by Red Tidean Forces. Attacking the place is relatively useless as the militias have mostly been captured or killed. What you are doing is killing more people and destroying more property.

Ehh, I'll figure out something. You forget that McKagan and I are very close allies, so I'm sure IMAF wouldn't mind loaning my SpecOps boys the use of a Stealth Blimp for a HALO infil.

And of course any aid will be classified. The HCIA's pulled off several covert interventionist actions in foreign countries without the public's knowledge. The DCI's got some serious clout in my nation, and he uses it. And we're not "working with Kraven," we're "liberating Torontia." We don't like Kraven any more than you and the other "imperialists" do, and, quite frankly, Tanakis doesn't really like Kraven anymore, seeing as he perceives them as having ditched him, and he knows he'll lose significant covert Halberdgardian and McKagan aid if he sides with Kraven.

The thing is, we can't use the Stealth Blimp for everything, y'know. It's still classified tech for me, so I don't WANT to get one shot down. Amestria and I agreed that he wouldn't find one very easily, but eventually it would be a godmod if he DIDN'T. I've only used it once, so we've got a few more uses out of it, but we can't rely on it alone.

I'm itching to get involved in a good RP again, and I'm thinking this one is a good one, seeing as A.) it directly affects my nation, and B.) my government's ready to take a covert crack at the Amestrians again.:p

So, here's my preliminary plan. I have one of my Spectral Operatives (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=444680) infiltrate the country by means of possessing the body of an arms dealer looking to make some sales to occupation forces. This would explain the large shipment of rifles, grenades, anti-tank, and anti-air weapons that comes in with him. The shipment gets "accidentally" hijacked by insurgents, and the Spectral Operative can go to ground and possess whoever he wants, generally wreaking havoc.

Alternatively, my much less favored plan is to borrow one of McKagan's Stealth Blimps and drop a few Special Forces men and an HCIA liasion into the country with some crates of anti-tank and anti-air weapons for the insurgents.

The thing is, we can't use the Stealth Blimp for everything, y'know. It's still classified tech for me, so I don't WANT to get one shot down. Amestria and I agreed that he wouldn't find one very easily, but eventually it would be a godmod if he DIDN'T. I've only used it once, so we've got a few more uses out of it, but we can't rely on it alone.

Point taken. However, would you be adverse to using one to drop my SpecOps men in if I have to use them instead of one of my Spectral Operatives?

[NOTE: Various properties and abilities of the Spectral Operatives are detailed here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9679714&postcount=22).]

Point taken. However, would you be adverse to using one to drop my SpecOps men in if I have to use them instead of one of my Spectral Operatives?

No, not at all. In fact, I've been PLANNING on using them again to get various other things into the nation in the near future. The insurgency hasn't hit anywhere NEAR full stength, but I have a few ideas on how to get it there...[TG]

No, not at all. In fact, I've been PLANNING on using them again to get various other things into the nation in the near future. The insurgency hasn't hit anywhere NEAR full stength, but I have a few ideas on how to get it there...[TG]

I'd love to see what havoc my Spectral Operative can wreak behind enemy lines, but "conventional" SpecOps would be good too. Also, I've replied to your TG.

I'd love to see what havoc my Spectral Operative can wreak behind enemy lines, but "conventional" SpecOps would be good too. Also, I've replied to your TG.

I have read your posts on the subject. I believe Spectral Operatives are future tech+ fantasy tech and do not wish them involved in this RP.

I put fantasy tech because you mention souls and demons, niether of which have any scientific justification or proof...

Also, bringing something like that will only fill the RP with insane techno babble over intelligence information and counters... Lets keep it conventional...

Before you "block" this, can I offer some help, since i've seen them in semi-use before?

It's not as "techno" as you would think, unless you want to block everything with "OMGOSH HE CANNOOOT DO TAH GOOODMOOOD!", he won't have to explain everything in depth. It isn't THAT FT either, considering that it's advantage isn't that much, just an extra mode of transportation. The dude isn't going to start hopping around the country on you; I think, it's just kinda like my DART team.

If I wanted I could pull that DART team out of the cave and take out a few hundred of your soldiers. Am I? No. It would ruin the RP. In this we all aren't using the technology to it's highest ability simply because it would ruin the RP.

Amestria won't be happy to hear this but im going to be leaving this RP. Mabye not entirely but pretty much.

Amestria won't be happy to hear this but im going to be leaving this RP. Mabye not entirely but pretty much.

Why...

Why...

Well, im at work more now ive finished uni and now that PMT nations are getting involved im gone. I went down that rode not a month ago and i couldn't stand to hear all the crap they come up with again.

It's pathetic to leave over this, it's really not as far towards FT as you think.

It's pathetic to leave over this, it's really not as far towards FT as you think.

1. Don't be an asshole
2. Its not the only reason im leaving - as i said i have more work now.
3. Im not online enough anyway to keep track of all the stuff going on now between you and Amestria.
4. I have more important RP's that i want to stay involved in with my time
5. If Kraven's joining then its near enough FT with troops that get shot up and hit with artillery shells but get back up and keep fighting.
6. I haven't really done anything anyway since i landed my troops (much do do with my lack of time)

Well... I'm doomed, but will stay the course...

And no spectrial operatives! I'm going to get hit with Kravens semi-cyborg army (not a fan, but I'm going with it), I'm drawing the line at these ghost things...

(Begins to prepare for post-war RP and the consquences of defeat)

Wait.... now... there won't be a HUGE Yallak fleet there.... *celebrates*

THOU HAS NEW WAY TO RP!

Yallak, are you just quiting, or are you going to post a thing where you're pulling out?

Hes posting...

Wait.... now... there won't be a HUGE Yallak fleet there.... *celebrates*

THOU HAS NEW WAY TO RP!

Yallak, are you just quiting, or are you going to post a thing where you're pulling out?

Ive already posted.

For now ill still be somewhat involved but am pulling most of my assets out...not all though

when I get back from work, my intelligence officials are going to make a report then I will resume the mass evacuation with all refugees going to the Republic of Pink (my new colony in the Hogsweat region).

when I get back from work, my intelligence officials are going to make a report then I will resume the mass evacuation with all refugees going to the Republic of Pink (my new colony in the Hogsweat region).

You're forcibly deporting Torontians to your colony?

OK, Amestria, as per your request, I'll not use my Spectral Operatives. Instead, I'm deploying six Special Forces men via HALO jump from a McKagan Stealth Blimp, along with some crates of anti-tank and anti-aircraft munitions. They'll land somewhere near the insurgent HQ, but in an outlying area, so as to avoid detection. The troops will be armed with M-32 assault rifles (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9975275&postcount=90) as their primary weapon, with a .50AE Desert Eagle as their sidearm. Cool with you?

Its cool...

OOC: Just to add, it's only the second use of the Stealth Blimp, with no one even having a HINT of it last time, it's not to be found this time, either; got it?

You're forcibly deporting Torontians to your colony?
haven't decided that yet. When I get back from work I'll make the post. Also X, check my Diplomatic Thread.

haven't decided that yet. When I get back from work I'll make the post. Also X, check my Diplomatic Thread.

I have, the High Ecclesiarchy is purposefully remaining silent for the moment while they consider the implications.

I must say they won’t be particularly impressed with your ethnic cleansing of eastern Torontia though, if you do go through with your forced deportations.

This is what I'm thinking: All the smart people/professionals will be semi-forced to move....while the rest will be voluntary and I'll RP people lining the docks and lining up outside the airports...then when the Kraven/New Order attack comes...it'll cause a panic and stuff will happen.

This is what I'm thinking: All the smart people/professionals will be semi-forced to move....while the rest will be voluntary and I'll RP people lining the docks and lining up outside the airports...then when the Kraven/New Order attack comes...it'll cause a panic and stuff will happen.

Well, there's no such thing as being "semi-forced", either it's with their consent or it isn't (and clearyly what you are talking about is not consensual), but just how many people do you honestly think will voluntarily be willing to abandon their homes to go half way across the world to your colony?

McKagan, just FYI, I've posted my SpecOps guys being deployed and shipped off to Walker for insertion into Torontia in the main thread.

Hal, mind if I call you Hal, the Yallak fleet is still in Torontia. They are presently only withdrawing the troops...

This is what I'm thinking: All the smart people/professionals will be semi-forced to move....while the rest will be voluntary and I'll RP people lining the docks and lining up outside the airports...then when the Kraven/New Order attack comes...it'll cause a panic and stuff will happen.

And you don't think Amestria might have some issues with you looting Torontia for human resources for your colony?

Amestria, how many more troops do you think you could comit to a war? You've had some of the same troops in Torontia for the whole war. Eventually you're going to have issues with funding to get them all "good" equipment, and against a good RP'er that is DEATH.

Nice sig, Hal.

Amestria, how many more troops do you think you could comit to a war? You've had some of the same troops in Torontia for the whole war. Eventually you're going to have issues with funding to get them all "good" equipment, and against a good RP'er that is DEATH.

Your assuming that troop rotations have not been taking place to relieve tired forces, well they have, just as troops shot in the insurgency are replaced... Minor things I did not believe worth posting on...

And as Amestria maintained a military of several million even before the emergency draft I doubt equipment will be an issue as long as Torontia's ports and airports are functioning...

Ah, I'm just being critical. It's like 12:30 here and I got up early so i'm going to be doing that for the rest of the night. :p

Truthfully, I DON'T maintain a large army. Standing FIGHTING forces are at like 1.5 million. Then again, they get ALOT of logisticals support per soldier and my airforce is HUGE... but going unmanned...

TO THE NAVY!

A nations troop levels have more to do with population/economy/culture/military structure then funding, for example RL China spends about 90 billion (at the most) on its military but maintains an army of over Two Million...

I've got the military, the economy, the culture, and the structure. I've just decided that a small, well trained and equiped force is as good for fighting wars as a big army with AK-47s and a tank.

A nations troop levels have more to do with population/economy/culture/military structure then funding, for example RL China spends about 90 billion (at the most) on its military but maintains an army of over Two Million...

Two million in terms of logistics; regardless, two million Chinese personnel are worth a hundred thousand American personnel in terms of quality. Personally, the Chinese need to spend less on their military and more on thinking about the future instead of sending themselves through progression only to hit a brick wall, which they will in the future.

A nation's personnel level when you're looking for some sort of quality, which is needed when you're expecting to propigate them abroad, depends on population size [China, having a billion person population], the budget that goes into the military [which has a lot more to do with quality than quantity] and, indeed, culture and administration.

In case anyone has been wondering about Amestrian culture and ethnicity, pretty much the dominant cultural/ethnic group is French/Germanic (in other words very continental European, although with a more Turn of the Century mindset when it comes to military matters).

Two million in terms of logistics; regardless, two million Chinese personnel are worth a hundred thousand American personnel in terms of quality. Personally, the Chinese need to spend less on their military and more on thinking about the future instead of sending themselves through progression only to hit a brick wall, which they will in the future.


Not to turn this into a debate or anything, but yeah, you're right.

In a few years the Chinese will realize that they've fucked up big time by not designing any of their own technology.