NationStates Jolt Archive

I've got the military, the economy, the culture, and the structure. I've just decided that a small, well trained and equiped force is as good for fighting wars as a big army with AK-47s and a tank.

You’re focused on destabilizing Torontia, Amestria on stabilizing. A lot more forces are needed to stabilize populated areas then to destabilize them.

And you don't think Amestria might have some issues with you looting Torontia for human resources for your colony?
What Amestria can't see, Amestria doesn't know. You know those heavily escorted convoys that leave Torontia? Wanna take a guess as to what's in them? The plan will be to continue smuggling people out of the country until the threat of war has passed...then they will be smuggled back in. As per the first thread, I had evacuated nearly a million people out. With large convoys now and many airliners, it'll be easier and quicker to smuggle people out. I will post the new government of Saint Fedski in a couple seconds, it will explain a lot.

Yallak which city? If you mean Vancouver, it is already secure and insurgent free... Perhaps you should alter your post to describe the actions taking place in cities throughout Southern BC... Amestria would also have no targets for the missiles...

Yallak which city? If you mean Vancouver, it is already secure and insurgent free... Perhaps you should alter your post to describe the actions taking place in cities throughout Southern BC... Amestria would also have no targets for the missiles...

Sorry - told you i wasn't keeping track off all the goings on in this RP anymore - but ive edited the post completely so it makes good sense now.

Is there anyway I can still get back in this? Seeing how I have tried to get involved, even TGed a few people, and have 2 allies involved in this, I still think I might be able to get involved somehow. Well, let me get a general consensus and if anyone has ideas/problems with me entering TG me or put it here.

You should be involved, yes. I don't know how to get your people in right now, seeing as all the possible Stealth Blimp LZ's are being blown to shit.

Perhaps Amestria would let us sneak something through after the Yallak fleet pulls out?

That or talk to Leafanistan...

Why not get involved in a big way and just invade lol...or start stirring up shit and get everyone moving around and confused then land a small force...then another small one...then another and soon you will have a large force that just seemed to come out of nowhere.

We DO need a non-insurgent commando force that can FIGHT. I've got my DART team, which, via a porportion, could kill nearly 150 Amestrians; but I can't fight with that because it's the TPLA Command Force right now. Sure, I brought in 4 more DART's, but I need them for logistics.

Meh, we've got the HCIA and my DART sniper. Should be enough to stop a few tank divisions.... :p

Why not get involved in a big way and just invade lol...or start stirring up shit and get everyone moving around and confused then land a small force...then another small one...then another and soon you will have a large force that just seemed to come out of nowhere.

We DO need a non-insurgent commando force that can FIGHT. I've got my DART team, which, via a porportion, could kill nearly 150 Amestrians; but I can't fight with that because it's the TPLA Command Force right now. Sure, I brought in 4 more DART's, but I need them for logistics.

Meh, we've got the HCIA and my DART sniper. Should be enough to stop a few tank divisions....

That sounds prettry good, I mean, I would have no problem doing a formal invasion. The Yallak fleet stands in my way, because I cant get past 1000 ships, especially with most of my navy commited to "The War of Golden Succcesion". I could, however, drop airborne divisions into Torontia, to link up with the DART and other special ops teams and then those combination of forces could hold out until a formal HailandKill invasion. Sound good?

You have to go the long way or else face the thousands of planes i can throw up against you.

That sounds prettry good, I mean, I would have no problem doing a formal invasion. The Yallak fleet stands in my way, because I cant get past 1000 ships, especially with most of my navy commited to "The War of Golden Succcesion". I could, however, drop airborne divisions into Torontia, to link up with the DART and other special ops teams and then those combination of forces could hold out until a formal HailandKill invasion. Sound good?
yeah and I have a tendency to shoot down..or atleast at anything that flies into my airspace without permission.

why not disguise your troops as tourists and have them fly via civilian aircraft into Seattle International Airport and linkup with MK's units somewhere else....

That sounds prettry good, I mean, I would have no problem doing a formal invasion. The Yallak fleet stands in my way, because I cant get past 1000 ships, especially with most of my navy commited to "The War of Golden Succcesion". I could, however, drop airborne divisions into Torontia, to link up with the DART and other special ops teams and then those combination of forces could hold out until a formal HailandKill invasion. Sound good?

Can we hold off with the massive invasions for a while? An advanced commando group of 30-50 soldiers would help the insurgency (and the storyline) more than a few thousand soldiers could; and keep it going in one direction.

Of course, eventually I wouldn't mind to see a few SWC tank divisions driving through BC...

why not disguise your troops as tourists and have them fly via civilian aircraft into Seattle International Airport and linkup with MK's units somewhere else....

Now THAT is a good idea.

A small commando group being inserted terrorist style? I LIKE that.

Well I'm preparing for war that's for sure.

The Sardaukar Phase 4's should be no problem, I don't over use them, the only time I have properly fielded them in any form of campaign was in Xirnium and they were against Kahanistan,

as for the Near FT comment, I based my Sardaukar on 2051 technology that is found in the Shadowrun Roleplay, shadowrun can be classed as PMT, yes my nation is at the near extreme limits to FT, but overall my nation leans more towards MT, Sardaukar, Fusion Reactors, and The Birthing Programme to be the most advanced tech in my nation,

My nation CAN be PMT. We field a small fleet of spacecrafts...

Anyone remember the K504?

Well I'm basicly a MT\PMT hybrid since I steal stuff from games that the technology would be considered PMT. (Stealth Tanks, Mechs,
Disrupter Soundwave Cannon, Cyborgs, Railguns.) I also use Space Craft and High altitude Transports for my Droppod Delivery system. (Which now I realize I should have used sooner, crap)

I'm strictly MT. I don't know much about anything in the future so I don't use it.

I have to find a way to get back into this RP though...seems the terrorist actions have pushed my occupation effort to the back burner... Anyone got any ideas how I can breathe some new life into my storyline? Preferably without too much conflict as I don't exactly have the time until Friday.

I'm strictly MT. I don't know much about anything in the future so I don't use it.

I have to find a way to get back into this RP though...seems the terrorist actions have pushed my occupation effort to the back burner... Anyone got any ideas how I can breathe some new life into my storyline?

Well moving your divisions against the insurgency was a start, even though you won't be able to get anywhere near them at the moment as Yallak is raining down upon us with missiles.

You COULD offer to help Amestria secure his own assets, rather than assauling the TPLA outright.

Anyone remember the K504?

Ahahaha, yes.

"And then there was that one time where McKagan went all crazy-ass with K504..."

EDIT: Saint Fedski, what territory, exactly, do you control? I'm afraid I've only seen vague references to "eastern Torontia."

Ahahaha, yes.

"And then there was that one time where McKagan went all crazy-ass with K504..."

You never know WHAT you'll find in the McKagan deserts...

Remember the one news report? Damn, I need to find that...

Hey, McKagan, I've been thinking: now that we've got insurgents in the country with plenty of heavy weaponry, might we be able to pull off the assault we were planning for Tanakis' men? It was this plan (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9894368&postcount=8), in case you don't remember. The way I see it, we've got some advantages now we didn't then.

First, we no longer need to worry about manpower and insertion, now that we have the TPLA well-established. In fact, unless I'm overestimating our strength, we could probably take a sizable portion of those vessels with skeleton crews.

Second, Yallak's fleet will be gone, so we don't have to worry about the vessels getting blown to hell. We'd obviously wait for his withdrawal before springing this plan.

Third, we don't even have to capture the vessels. If we can't capture them, and have to destroy them instead, we can still use it as a massive propaganda tool: "Look! If the Amestrians can't even protect their own warships (or those of their protectorate), how can they protect you? Do you really want them running your country for their own clumsy imperialist aims?"

Bottom line: we win either way. If we capture the vessels, the victory proves to the international community that we're a force to be reckoned with -- a Saratoga, if you will -- and we can steal or buy American aircraft to put on the carriers. We then have a pretty damn good insurgent navy and air force. If we are forced to destroy the vessels, we still prove a point and have an excellent propaganda tool on hand.

EDIT: I've have to say this makes a pretty good 1600th post.:p

^
:)

^
:)

I'll take that as a "yes," then.:p

We'll wait until Yallak stops doing his missile-spamming thing (or wait for a reasonable amount of time, whichever comes first), then I'll have Whittier show Driver the satellite photos and lay out the plan, and we go from there.

Amestria, can you give us some basic information on the naval bases we're planning on striking? We're assuming defenses will be of either light or moderate strength, since we're assuming you're not using them full-time, and they'll probably be manned by Torontians, not your troops. Since the troops would probably never suspect that the insurgents would dare attack a military installation, we're also assuming they'd be semi-lax in terms of alertness. We're figuring that a large band of heavily-armed insurgents could probably strike the bases hard and fast enough to break in and capture or sink the vessels, or at least cause some serious damage, relying heavily on the element of surprise.

I'll quote the plan we originally came up with here, to give you the basic idea. It's essentially the same, with the exception of the part about Tanakis, and probably scuttling the subs, too, unless you'd let us pull that off and then launch a successful attack.

After entering the room, leaving the HCIA agents outside, Whittier brought out a manila folder, and laid it on a table in front of him. From the folder he removed five pieces of glossy photo paper, on which were printed high-resolution photos.

"The HCIA boys already know about this, so they're happier outside than in.

"My superiors briefed me on a possible McKagan plan for Tanakis, whereby he would use his contacts to get in touch with Global Jihad, insert them in the country, wreak havoc and drive the current 'peacekeepers' out, and then prosecute Tanakis on supporting terrorism, citing betrayal of your trust while in exile, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Well, the HCIA has been doing some work to that extent, and they came up with something they think might help in this so-called 'Liberation of Torontia.'

"These five pieces of paper are satellite imagery of areas near Seattle; specifically, ports. And not just any ports, either. No, Colonel, these are the ports that Torontian warships used as safe harbor. And as you can clearly see from these images, the warships are still there. Intelligence suggests that the current provisional government is either putting them on standby, in storage, or is getting ready to scrap them. If Tanakis' 'freedom fighters' could liberate them, they'd have some pretty serious firepower to use against the provisional government.

"There are three main warship groups near Seattle that we want to focus on. The first is at the port of Everett, north of Seattle. This image (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/neotheone175/NationStates/Modern%20Tech/Satellite%20Imagery/Tanakis/The%20Liberation%20of%20Torontia/EverettWarshipsinRelationtoSeattle.jpg) shows Everett in relation to Seattle; it's not too far. At that port alone, there are five warships. As you can see in this photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/neotheone175/NationStates/Modern%20Tech/Satellite%20Imagery/Tanakis/The%20Liberation%20of%20Torontia/EverettPortandWarships.jpg) from about twenty-eight hundred feet up, you've got a Nimitz on the right, two Perry-class frigates at bottom left and right, an Arleigh Burke-class at top left, and a Spruance-class destroyer at top right. Not a bad haul.

"Secondly, this image (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/neotheone175/NationStates/Modern%20Tech/Satellite%20Imagery/Tanakis/The%20Liberation%20of%20Torontia/LoneDestroyeratPort.jpg) shows a lone, old Forrest Sherman-class destroyer at port near Turner Point at Bremerton, also relatively close to Seattle (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/neotheone175/NationStates/Modern%20Tech/Satellite%20Imagery/Tanakis/The%20Liberation%20of%20Torontia/BremertoninRelationtoSeattle.jpg).

"But by far the greatest prize is the fleet near the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, just south of Bremerton. This image (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/neotheone175/NationStates/Modern%20Tech/Satellite%20Imagery/Tanakis/The%20Liberation%20of%20Torontia/CarriersandSubmarinesatPort.jpg) allowed us to definitively identify the vessels of the fleet at Bremerton, which appear to be mothballed. At left, you have an immensely valuable stash of vessels, with four carriers, two battleships, and countless escorts. Farther to the right, at center, you have two destroyers and what appears to be one more carrier, along with a massive group of assorted submarines, nineteen at last count. At far right, you have what appears to be one more battleship and an additional ten assorted submarines.

"Now that you have this intel, here's what the HCIA cooked up. Tanakis inserts his insurgent force by whatever means necessary into Seattle. With conflict going on between Amestria and Red Tidean forces, the provisional government will probably be more concerned with the fighting than this mothball fleet. So, the insurgents plan a coordinated strike at both Bremerton and Everett, overwhelm the likely understaffed skeleton security force at both sites, hijack the ships, and pull them out to the open seas with skeleton crews. Even with hundreds of insurgents, we'll still be short, so perhaps Tanakis can rally support among former Torontian military support for this operation.

"Now you're probably worried about what happens if he actually regains all these vessels. Well, not to fear. With the superior technology of both our nations' fleets, we should be able to defeat them handily in any sort of conflict. However, as an added precaution, we'd like to send in operatives to scuttle the submarines ahead of time. We'd forge work orders from the provisional government to destroy the subs, pose as Amestrians, and then sink the vessels. Then when the insurgent attack comes, they've got only a surface fleet, which is comparatively easier to sink than submarines.

"I realize that was a lot, so I'll sit back and let you think. Your thoughts, Colonel?"

There's also alot of submarines there, correct?

We could have some of the insurgents, who may have previously worked there, take some of those too.

Yallaks fleet is still there, and his ground forces are still in BC, it is a measured withdraw, it could take months...

I'll take that as a "yes," then.:p

We'll wait until Yallak stops doing his missile-spamming thing (or wait for a reasonable amount of time, whichever comes first), then I'll have Whittier show Driver the satellite photos and lay out the plan, and we go from there.

Amestria, can you give us some basic information on the naval bases we're planning on striking? We're assuming defenses will be of either light or moderate strength, since we're assuming you're not using them full-time, and they'll probably be manned by Torontians, not your troops. Since the troops would probably never suspect that the insurgents would dare attack a military installation, we're also assuming they'd be semi-lax in terms of alertness.

Any details on the security of the Seattle ship yards should be provided by Saint Fedski, who controls Seattle. (Also, the ships may have been recrewed and relaunched, seeing how SF has been canibalizing Torontia of everything... Ask SF about that as well)

Hey, McKagan, I've been thinking: now that we've got insurgents in the country with plenty of heavy weaponry, might we be able to pull off the assault we were planning for Tanakis' men? It was this plan (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9894368&postcount=8), in case you don't remember. The way I see it, we've got some advantages now we didn't then.

First, we no longer need to worry about manpower and insertion, now that we have the TPLA well-established. In fact, unless I'm overestimating our strength, we could probably take a sizable portion of those vessels with skeleton crews.

Second, Yallak's fleet will be gone, so we don't have to worry about the vessels getting blown to hell. We'd obviously wait for his withdrawal before springing this plan.

Third, we don't even have to capture the vessels. If we can't capture them, and have to destroy them instead, we can still use it as a massive propaganda tool: "Look! If the Amestrians can't even protect their own warships (or those of their protectorate), how can they protect you? Do you really want them running your country for their own clumsy imperialist aims?"

Bottom line: we win either way. If we capture the vessels, the victory proves to the international community that we're a force to be reckoned with -- a Saratoga, if you will -- and we can steal or buy American aircraft to put on the carriers. We then have a pretty damn good insurgent navy and air force. If we are forced to destroy the vessels, we still prove a point and have an excellent propaganda tool on hand.

EDIT: I've have to say this makes a pretty good 1600th post.:p

The insurgents are only in BC, you should remember that, and BC is under naval blockade, no unapproved vessals may enter or leave and the border is closed...

Amestrian Naval craft are stationed off the Torontian coast and Port Angeles (the harbor of which is under Amestrian Military Control).

And yes, you are overestimating the insurgencies strength, an insurgency confined to hit and run attacks and which holds no defined terratory... Little early to start talking about a navy...

The Corporation will probaly get involved, but im not sure whats what, so could someone please give me a breif over veiw of who controls what, and where, whos on whos side, etc, thanks

The insurgents are only in BC, you should remember that, and BC is under naval blockade, no unapproved vessals may enter or leave and the border is closed...

Amestrian Naval craft are stationed off the Torontian coast and Port Angeles (the harbor of which is under Amestrian Military Control).

And yes, you are overestimating the insurgencies strength, an insurgency confined to hit and run attacks and which holds no defined terratory... Little early to start talking about a navy...

You're underestimating the insurgencies strength. I'm fully capable of having it start taking over small towns; but i'm waiting for things to fall into place.

You're underestimating the insurgencies strength. I'm fully capable of having it start taking over small towns; but i'm waiting for things to fall into place.

How long could they hold those towns against 400,000 Amestrian/Torontian troops and 200,000 Yallak troops (who are still stationed in BC)? A few hours, days at the most...

How long could they hold those towns against 400,000 Amestrian/Torontian troops and 200,000 Yallak troops (who are still stationed in BC)? A few hours, days at the most...

Well yeah, if you feel that it takes 500,000 troops to take back a village, I guess it would be hard...

How long could they hold those towns against 400,000 Amestrian/Torontian troops and 200,000 Yallak troops (who are still stationed in BC)? A few hours, days at the most...
(By the way TLA shipped off 25,000 Torontians when they left, they've only brought back around 3,000 for the TSU, of the 25,000 at least 5,000 more want to fight.

And in other news I won't be able to post very often for at least 5 days. bad laptop that'll have to use makes it hard to use the internet.

A new Amestrian/TPG offensive has been launched in addition to the Yallak bombardment.

I would just like to point something out. The people of Western Torontia (Amestrian occupied Torontia), voted almost entirely for leftist parties in the Local Elections. About 70% voted for a Socialist, Social Democrat or Communist Party. About 12% voted for a Centrist Party and only 18% voted for a Conservative Party (and the most moderate of the Conservative Parties at that).

This demonstrates that the New Order or its ideals have little popular support (if any) in Western Torontia... Taking into account that most New Order supporters would have boycotted the polls... It is going to be a bloody civil war...

Amestria, please respond to my TG.

Also, Amestria, which SFs (store-fronts) do you rely on? Or do you produce your units domestically?

All Amestrian Military units are produced domestically.

The TSU just launched counterstrikes on the TPLA\TRA convoy ambushers using a fake convoy. BTW prepare for a homefront war if NBCs are used.

No one is knowing I had any part in this, FYI. Desist or I ignore you and any of your future attacks. This is non negotiable.

Have a nice day.

Torontia, I have said this before, there are no Amestrian troops in Eastern Torontia. There are only Saint Fedski troops at present... please delete your mention of them.

In addition I believe Saint Fedski has become aware of your pressence in Eastern Torontia and preparing for an air attack...

Come on people. STOP GODMODING. Nod, there is NO way to link me to this. NO way to suspect me. END OF DISCUSSION.

Torontia, it's evident.

Well Mckagan, I would say people would suspect you (of this and a number of things), but they would have no proof... and thus no cause of action.

Launching an investigation into it with a suspect in mind would not be godmoding, however concentrating only on that nation would be...

There's a difference in launching an investigation (which i wouldn't mind) and simply declaring a person knows it was me. IF Nod/TLA claims IC knowlege that it was me, they WILL be ignored from all future aspects of this RP.

There's a difference in launching an investigation (which i wouldn't mind) and simply declaring a person knows it was me. IF Nod/TLA claims IC knowlege that it was me, they WILL be ignored from all future aspects of this RP.

Agreed...

There is reason to suspect Mckagan, but no evidence that would create "knowledge" nor justify a cause of action (at least in this case, misunderstandings and snap judgements lead to violence all the time, but Mckagan is a former LA ally)...

Mckagan I used the OCC thread and sent a TG, but he kept on posting, in light of the fact he posts at non regular hours I needed to get his attention!

Perfectly understood, comrade.

If people can justify their leaders changing that much, I will justify my leader turning into The Rock and laying a Smackdown on everyone here!

...

That was lame. :p

Waht do you think the rural areas to the east of Vancouver are???

CENTRAL!

You own Vancouver.

Thats not central, thats Western!

And how did those forces get through Saint Fedskis patrols?

And Amestrian troops would not be patroling in isolated areas...

TG!

I have no idea who owns what anymore. :p

Amestria: Western Torontia (Coasts, South Vancouver, OP, BC)

Saint Fedski: Central and parts of Eastern Torontia (Seattle, Olympia, Spokane)

Eastern Torontia: Large parts remain effectivly outside of government control...

TRA: Several towns/two airbases along the Idaho/Torontian border.

Since Torontia (the player) has decided to leave the RP and leave the country to me, I'm excepting suggestions on what to do with the TRA.

You take it over or give it to Hal. (after explaining in great detail were Amestrian troops are)...

I think i'll let Hal have it, should he accept. I think he'd do a better job from there; and we need someone to give you some trouble so maybe you'll STOP FOCUSING ON THE INSURGENTS. :p

One of the Torontian posts still needs to be edited (not deleted, just edited)

Done.

FYI just to quit someone's complaining, Nod has no proof to back up their belief. And they can't prove it to the Lone Alliance either, so they have the disadvantage of thinking they know the truth but no one will ever believe them. And no one IC them telling anyone either.

TRA Controlled Torontia

It had been over three weeks since Ira Gaines had taken control of the area that the TRA had ordered him to.

Already, around 2000 Torontians had joined up for the TRA and were now undergoing military training. They were armed with weapons supplied by Gaines mercenaries and from the black market in Idaho.
Torontia, could you change that a little? I had previously RP'd some units eyeing the area you had taken and I would like the chance to RP some more communications, troop movements and a light strike against some airborne aircraft and some armoured vehicles that had been spotted. Just to make sure, I have no clue that they are your's, all I know is they are not mine, Amestria's or Yallak's and therefore would be eyed with suspicion.

Saint Fedski, better post your governments response to that killer flu that has hit BC... As you know Amestria has locked BC down under direct military rule and closed all Torontian airports (among other things)

Torontia, could you change that a little? I had previously RP'd some units eyeing the area you had taken and I would like the chance to RP some more communications, troop movements and a light strike against some airborne aircraft and some armoured vehicles that had been spotted. Just to make sure, I have no clue that they are your's, all I know is they are not mine, Amestria's or Yallak's and therefore would be eyed with suspicion.
SF, can you please respond to my TG about what unit to purchase?

Yallak, are you leaving this RP or sticking around?

Aha, it all makes sense now. Now I'm somewhat up-to-date on what transpired while I was sleeping.

OK, so I think I'll tentatively accept control of the TRA for now. I want to TG Torontia on the TRA's details: location as of this time, manpower, weaponry, mobility, etc., etc.

I'll have Whittier and his "merry band of mischief-makers" go and command the TRA. It looks like they're in SF territory, so we're probably going to fight or sneak our way through the countryside until we reach the area south of Bremerton, whereby we'll then strike the shipyards and vessels held there. After Yallak's fleet withdraws, of course.

Aha, it all makes sense now. Now I'm somewhat up-to-date on what transpired while I was sleeping.

OK, so I think I'll tentatively accept control of the TRA for now. I want to TG Torontia on the TRA's details: location as of this time, manpower, weaponry, mobility, etc., etc.

I'll have Whittier and his "merry band of mischief-makers" go and command the TRA. It looks like they're in SF territory, so we're probably going to fight or sneak our way through the countryside until we reach the area south of Bremerton, whereby we'll then strike the shipyards and vessels held there. After Yallak's fleet withdraws, of course.

Driver will stick with the HCIA.

I'd just like to point out that taking OOC information and making it IC like Amestria did with your plan to attack the shipyards is an obvious godmod.

Driver will stick with the HCIA.

I'd just like to point out that taking OOC information and making it IC like Amestria did with your plan to attack the shipyards is an obvious godmod.

Are you going to join the current insurgents under Driver up with the TRA? Whatever you want to do is fine.

And yes, I'd have to agree that the OOC-IC shipyard deal is not good. Amestria, I can't see why Gran would randomly decide to lock those ships down. If they hadn't been locked down up until now, it would be because Gran and the government obviously didn't think they needed undue protection. I'm going to have to ask you to please retract your post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9989931&postcount=128), because Gran has no justification for suddenly locking the ships down -- he has no knowledge, no inkling that the insurgents are getting ready to attack them.

Driver isn't really the commander of the TPLA. He's just the DART teams' (who includes the commander) link to the field. But yes, the TPLA WILL join up with the TRA, assuming the TRA can make it that far west.

McKagan, please check your TGs.

And just out of curiosity, whose side is TLA on now? Some of his and TBHN's recent actions have confused me lately.

Done.

McKagan, please check your TGs.

And just out of curiosity, whose side is TLA on now? Some of his and TBHN's recent actions have confused me lately.

You know....
I don't know anymore.

All I can say is that
There are 5 goals,

Help the TSU and end this Torontian Stuff once and for all.
Keep a balance of power between both sides.
(Which failed from the Bio attack)
Keep behind the scenes.
Test new Equipment.
(You'll know later)

Y'know, now that I own the Torontian nation... I could pull ALOT of interesting stuff and keep this storyline going for as long as I want to... :p

Well prepare for the plot twist from hell. ;) With me controlling the lands north of Torontia, I can keep it very interesting also.

Are you going to join the current insurgents under Driver up with the TRA? Whatever you want to do is fine.

And yes, I'd have to agree that the OOC-IC shipyard deal is not good. Amestria, I can't see why Gran would randomly decide to lock those ships down. If they hadn't been locked down up until now, it would be because Gran and the government obviously didn't think they needed undue protection. I'm going to have to ask you to please retract your post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9989931&postcount=128), because Gran has no justification for suddenly locking the ships down -- he has no knowledge, no inkling that the insurgents are getting ready to attack them.

And by the way, what I did with the ship yards was not a godmod, I did not reenforce the guards or add new defenses... I just pointed out that the passwords had been changed and that the ships were under guard (all precautionary measures that any government with common sense would take). Why would they not lock down the fleet when it would be so easy to change the passwords and insure that those ships remain secure? Why would they not put them under guard...

And if you noticed, Gran did not just put them under guard, they have been under guard for a while and in the process of lock-down for quite a while... There were just more pressing concerns to devote resources, so they did not get around to finishing it until recently...

Changing the system passwords on the ships when taking them over is like changing the locks in the armory, its going to be done for basic security. Because of all the chatter I decided to make a specific post on the Torontian ships so it was clear as to there exact protection (so I would not be accused of godmoding later when I said the passwords are completely different)...

Saint Fedski, can you please respond to my TG?

OOC: I have! A couple times. But I will do so again.

Thank you. It's good to see that we're getting along well both ICly and OOCly.

Yallak, are you leaving this RP or sticking around?

Leaving. Slowly. Cant just abandon Amestria.

Yes. Yes it is. :-)

Phase 2 has started your plot twist will be coming soon.
I added that last sentence for Drama.

Secret IC:

The Alarm sounded quietly through out the hold of the ships, as they slowly slipped into Amestria Ports, Inside were 8 squads of Sardaukar Phase 4's, The Killing Machines of the Corporation... Fear Incarnate...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...or/Phase4s.jpg

Insantly all 8 squads in the lead ship activated, receiving a single Command from the Relay system, their Lazer Target designators activating, illuminating the room with the lazers, that cut through the darkness with infinate precision...

They awaited for the boarding party to enter, then they would begin the Assault on the Amestria Port... It would be the first of many to fall....

And you got through my blockade how???

Now that you're beginning to pull our (ie, doing more than once thing at once,) it would be MORE possible, but it still needs to be RP'd.

And you got through my blockade how???

I assume they are on Saint Fedski ships pretending to deliver supplies...

I'll need to post my stats soon also.

I assume they are on Saint Fedski ships pretending to deliver supplies...
Close...they are the supplies lol or as I refered to it in the post "aid". I was hoping to have your security search the ship which would begin the series of events.

As per http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10004646&postcount=152 you should have no clue of any hostile actions at all. All you should know is that there are civilian ships in your waters with no military cargo. I don't really see any reason to revoke the clearance, bu maybe I missed something.

Thank you for posting your deployments. It will make RPing much easier.

The SF government in Seattle refused to allow TPG officials to enter the Saint Fedski zone and take charge of all non-military related affairs... Furthermore, the Amestrians/TPG leadership found the letters insulting...

The clearance of the ships (as of all SF ships wishing to dock in the Amestrian zone) was pulled in an attempt to force the SF government to agree to a full political unification instead of a partial one (as Burns made clear in his own letter)...

Amestria (IC and OOC) suspected nothing and the ships being refused landing was pure luck... The ships were stopped for political, not military, reasons.

Although now there is going to be some raised eye-brows and suspicions regarding the SF high alert...

Saint Fedski you're just asking for it aren't you? TSU has recieved Attack craft recently, fast attack craft. That blockade is going to be engaged soon enough. And you forgot to mention what would happen to a Torontian Provisional Government soldier.

I'm not asking for it, I'm merely protecting the interests of the Interm Torontian Government. They say they want a blockade, they get a blockade. It is there land, my forces are just there to protect them. I am only blockading Port Angeles because my ships are being blockaded. As soon as the blockade on me is lifted, I shall life the blockade on Port Angeles.

The blockade of Port Angeles is ineffective at best because the TPG controls the entire Torontian coastline... The blockade stopping shipping is not the issue, the issue is Saint Fedski and the TIC have IC pissed everyone off and are now trying to blockade a superior naval force... Amestria and Yallak are not going to recognize any blockade, they are going to blow those ships out of the water unless their demands are met.

If the Yallak/Amestrian/whatever fleet is so superior, it looks to me like you'd be better off (smarter, too) to just run the blockade whenever you want and wait for him to try to stop one of the ships. THEN that would be a clause for war.

If the Yallak/Amestrian/whatever fleet is so superior, it looks to me like you'd be better off (smarter, too) to just run the blockade whenever you want and wait for him to try to stop one of the ships. THEN that would be a clause for war.

We've got one anyway. Amestria had only just asked me to prevent SF ships from entering Torontia - i had yet to reply or instate said blockade against him when SF put up his blockades.

SF in regards to your last post in the RP thread - the attack on one of your blockading ships at Port Angeles was the warning.

We've got one anyway. Amestria had only just asked me to prevent SF ships from entering Torontia - i had yet to reply or instate said blockade against him when SF put up his blockades.

Yeah, Amestria only made its intentions clear (then S.F. set up a premptive blockade)... And S.F. has no legal authority to set up a blockade as the section of the channel they are blockading is controlled by the TPG, so they are also illegally occupying TPG controlled waters and obstructing traffic...

But how do you know they're stoping traffic? It's not been RP'd that a ship has been stopped, has it? Just that his ships are moving to do that? RP things happening, people. He's not fired on anyone, or stopped anything.

Mckagan, he intends to and has moved ships into position, thats enough... And no civilian ships have been stopped because they can dock else-where (Amestria controls the whole coast and S.F. is only blocking the channel).


Saint Fedski TG!

But how do you know they're stoping traffic? It's not been RP'd that a ship has been stopped, has it? Just that his ships are moving to do that? RP things happening, people. He's not fired on anyone, or stopped anything.

Just the fact that he moved warships into a surrounding position of the TPG capital is enough to warrant a decisive response. This has been building up for a while now and it was pretty inevitable.

Before I respond, I need to know how many missiles were fired by Amestria in total. 5 per ship doesn't cut it for me. It could be 200 or it could be just 5. I have not yet RP'd the blockade actually moving into position so...all I have out there is a couple of escorts for trade convoys.

Also Yallak. Where is HK-754? I need to know so I can state which capital ships (only aircraft carriers) if any, are in the area. To be honest, there are none as of yet even past the Port Angeles/Victoria Ferry Line. If there is one, there is definitely 3 more under heavy escort. The only AC's that are not comitted already (see http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10004459&postcount=151) are HESs Corunna, Courtright, Partagener, and Petropolis. HESs Promenade and Sombra are currently elsewhere in world probably on training or just cruising. Maybe heading towards your mainlands? lol

Umm, I'm ignoring Madnestan since
1. I've never seen Madnestan post here before,
2. Madnestan Trade has not been ICly or OOCly discussed in any of the threads, so Madnestan hasn't traded in Torontia yet.
3. Madnestan can't godmode a convoy into existance, besides the other nations have full right to block Madnestan from aiding the enemy.

OOC: I am aware of that, as I am having a warm trade relations with SF I thought it would be natural if I'd had businesses in SF's Torontia too. And, in OOC, I just hoped to get provocated for war. I can RP a convoy coming to there if you want (and I can hardly see any godmodding in that) but I thought it could just as easily been done as national announcement/note changing level.

There's a difference between trading with Saint Fedski and Trading with The Saint Fedski controlled Torontian Interm Government. Since it's not considered
the nation of Saint Fedski and just Torontian Territory Controlled by Saint Fedski soldiers, you would have no right to really have any lawful reason to trade with a Government that has no trade agreement with you.

Oh... Perhaps I have misunderstood something then. I thought the area was actually occupied by SF. I blame him as he didn't explain the situation clearly enough in his TG's... Anyways, I can have deals with SF, like bringing some shit to the troops stationed in Torontia. Need to discuss it further with him. Until that, the announcement remains meaningless.

Sorry for the hasty posting before checking the situation well enough, and the inconvenience caused by that.

Before I respond, I need to know how many missiles were fired by Amestria in total. 5 per ship doesn't cut it for me. It could be 200 or it could be just 5. I have not yet RP'd the blockade actually moving into position so...all I have out there is a couple of escorts for trade convoys.


The Amestrian Fleet(s) are only firing upon the S.F. ships currently in the Port Angeles harbor (the convoy ships ) and have fired five missiles at each ship (in addition to concentrated artillery fire from the fleets/coastal defenses guns). In addition the coastal batteries have fired one missile at each ship.

EDIT: The meantion of destroyers was a mistake, the Amestrian fleet is firing only at the convoy within Port Angeles.

KC, the Amestrians fired upon the convoy with more then just artillery fire, they launched six missiles at each ship (there are two whole fleets stationed in Port Angeles)...

2. Madnestan Trade has not been ICly or OOCly discussed in any of the threads, so Madnestan hasn't traded in Torontia yet.
Umm I have announced that international trade has been resumed by Torontia, though I did not specify which nations.

Also, Amestria, the convoy that is "docking" in Port Angeles is unescorted. I do not believe you have opened fire on it yet. The convoy that you and Yallak are firing at is escorted by 3 Arleigh Burke Class destroyers. It is located roughly in the middle of the straight.

I hope that while I'm gone, you and Yallak recognize the launch of defensive missiles from my ships and some increased air activity. When I get back from work, I will RP the missile strikes on my ships and the eventual loss of all three destroyers and 4 cargo vessels. Maybe even the destruction of "Eagle Eye".

Also Yallak. Where is HK-754? I need to know so I can state which capital ships (only aircraft carriers) if any, are in the area. To be honest, there are none as of yet even past the Port Angeles/Victoria Ferry Line. If there is one, there is definitely 3 more under heavy escort. The only AC's that are not comitted already (see http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10004459&postcount=151) are HESs Corunna, Courtright, Partagener, and Petropolis. HESs Promenade and Sombra are currently elsewhere in world probably on training or just cruising.

HK-754 is just a coordinate outside of Port Angeles. When I made that post all I had to go off was this:

It is no secret that relations with the State of Amestria and their puppet regime in Western Torontia are quite sour indeed, but so far war has been averted. In order to show that we are serious about the situation, a naval blockade has been set up at the mouth of the Strait and a smaller one around Port Angeles.

So it is really up to you which ship is being hit – but all 960 missile are going in at only one ship. Overkill yes but IC it is to prove a point and emphasize my warning.

I think to remove the confusion in all this, you should post a summary of your forces and where they are positioned like Amestria and I did.

Maybe heading towards your mainlands? Lol

Very funny!!

EDIT: How many missiles are you firing back??

Umm I have announced that international trade has been resumed by Torontia, though I did not specify which nations.

Also, Amestria, the convoy that is "docking" in Port Angeles is unescorted. I do not believe you have opened fire on it yet. The convoy that you and Yallak are firing at is escorted by 3 Arleigh Burke Class destroyers. It is located roughly in the middle of the straight.


No! My fleet fired upon the ships docking in Port Angeles (which are a threat to the flank) as I posted...


In Port Angeles harbor the Amestrian fleet assumes the S.F. presence to be a direct threat to Port Angeles (and the stationed Fleet). The 15 Frigates, 11 Destroyers and 3 Battleships of the combined fleets open fire, as do the coastal batteries*.[close quote]

The other S.F. fleet, the one Yallak is "warning" is not in the range of the Amestrian fleets guns (its within missile range, but offical hostilities have not broken out), so they are not being attacked by the Amestrian fleet, only Yallak...

The Amestrian fleet is firing upon the ships in the Port Angeles harbor only (at present)!

[QUOTE=Saint Fedski]
I hope that while I'm gone, you and Yallak recognize the launch of defensive missiles from my ships and some increased air activity. When I get back from work, I will RP the missile strikes on my ships and the eventual loss of all three destroyers and 4 cargo vessels. Maybe even the destruction of "Eagle Eye".

That fleet is presently only being attacked by Yallak, Amestria is only firing upon Convoy 433 at present, so S.F. should just lose the ship Yallak targeted in the convoy in the middle of the channel...

S.F.'s convoy 433 is a different matter. Each ship is being hit with artillery fire and six anti-ship (ship destroying) missiles (Amestrian fleet missiles+missiles from the coastal defenses...)

So it is really up to you which ship is being hit – but all 960 missile are going in at only one ship. Overkill yes but IC it is to prove a point and emphasize my warning.
EDIT: How many missiles are you firing back??
Ok well now that I know that 100 missiles are being launched, the radar operators would surely be able to tell that a massive amount are inbound...more than 100 destroyers could intercept, not to mention 3. I think I'll have the Captain say "fuck that" then issue the abandon ship order and then get blown up. Should be fun!

You have to wonder what those who witness the strike would be thinking... I can just picture it...

900 missiles destroy a single destroyer in a massive symphony of constant explosions... Then everything falls silent and nothing is left except some wreckage... A captain of one of the surviving vessels turns to his first mate and says...

"W-what the fuck just happened..."

"Sir, should we search for survivors?"

"Are you daft? What makes you think there would be survivors?"

That would truly be a spectacular sight. Just for the hell of it, I should have a petty officer on the can survive.

Sorry for the delay on the "losses" post. Kraven and I are having a polite discussion about what to do.

That would truly be a spectacular sight. Just for the hell of it, I should have a petty officer on the can survive.

Sorry for the delay on the "losses" post. Kraven and I are having a polite discussion about what to do.

No worries - it gives me time to bore myself to hell at work all day!

Sort of a "tag"... I'll probably be coming in pro-St. Fedski later if that's acceptable.

Personally, i'm in favor of letting a FEW people in that we KNOW are established RP'ers to help SF out.

Otherwise it's an Amestrian dogpile.

And that's bad for the TPLA. :p

I have no objections to a few established RPers comming in, but it will take a long time for their forces to come into Torontia (I have the fourth and fifth Amestrian fleets on their way and they still have not arrived), I would say it would take weeks for an established force to be organized and dispatched to Torontia by sea...

On the subject of the BC rebels... The TPLA is going to need to do some soul searching and reestablish itself... By all measurements it has not been successful... Amestrian control remains and by all measurements is more established... (the quarantine is still in force and the anti-insurgent offensives continue, although the bombing raids for the last few hours have stopped; remember the moment convoy 433 entered Port Angeles harbor we have been RPing in hours)

And it has not been an "Amestrian dog pile", remember that Yallak is the dominant military power (all-be-it allied with Amestria in regards to the Torontian occupation) and the Lone Alliance is providing covert and unoffical aid to the Torontian Socialist Union, the BC rebel force turned government Paramilitary and Political Party... The nation of Xirnium has signaled Diplomatic support...

On the other side is Saint Fedski, North Saint Clair (S.F.'s puppet), and what ever allies they can round up...

Then in the middle is Mckagan and Hal.'s sponsered/supported pro-Tanakis rebel armies, the TPLA and the TRA. The TPLA is on the run in BC while the TRA has managed to establish some control along the Torontian/Idaho border in the unstable East, and is thus in the stronger position...

You also mustn't forget that The Black Hand The TSU and the Lone Alliance control Alaska and the Yukon areas north of Torontia and are amassing a large army.

Personally, i'm in favor of letting a FEW people in that we KNOW are established RP'ers to help SF out.
Well yeah, with 7,500+ posts I can't be a particularly well-established RPer, so I might as well back out. ;)

Amestria, if I send any forces they'll be air forces—and my air force has been mobilized already with the threat of attack from The Warmaster—so they actually will arrive fairly quickly.

Well yeah, with 7,500+ posts I can't be a particularly well-established RPer, so I might as well back out. ;)

Amestria, if I send any forces they'll be air forces—and my air force has been mobilized already with the threat of attack from The Warmaster—so they actually will arrive fairly quickly.

Ah! Target practice.

Yeah, exactly... we'll see how your missiles match up against Dagger maneuverability. :D

Where is Czardas in relation to North America?

Er.... good question. Far. In relation to North America, Czardas would be somewhere north and east of Israel, approximately 3000 km in the extended NS world (past The Silver Sky which is 1600 km from Czardas).

Yeah, exactly... we'll see how your missiles match up against Dagger maneuverability. :D

Or we will see how your maneuverability matches to my combat aircraft (with surface to air support)

Amestria would be roughly where Western/Central Europe is now...(I think of it as a combination of France, Germany, and the Low Countries with some Balkan regional elements mixed in on the outskirts)

Torontia is where Washington State, Oregen, and BC are now...

Yallak, TG...

My characters are going to be diplomatic with this to prevent an even greater stink.

There have already been three attempts to remedy the current dispute with diplomacy and compromise... All have failed and the situation has progressed to the point where conflict cannot be halted by an invitation to peace talks by a previously univolved foreign power... It is up to Saint Fedski to decide on war or peace... (with SF's next post, when-ever that is, which will determine Yallak and Amestria's course of action)...

I do not mean to say that Amestria/Yallak will ignore SEA call (they might or might not) but that fire has been exchanged between Amestrian/Yallak and SF forces... The first fire-fight is still being RPed, so depending on what happens next there might not be much time to consider the SEA offer... And there is the reality that there are a fair number of Torontians who do not want "peace"... (the leaders of the TPG and TIG hate each other utterly, the TRA and TPLA want to reinstall Tanakis, and the TSU wants to wipe out all remaining New Order supporters...)

And in IC it will take at least several hours for the Amestrian Government to send the Southeastasia message to the AOA and TPG (what with the current stand off and high alert all personel in Torontia are very busy)...

SF, can you please respond to my TGs?

SEA: Just did.

EVeryone: I'm waiting for Kraven to do the RP of this ship..seeing as their troops did shoot the captain. IF KC doesn't reply soon as in today....we'll just say it was a completely unarmed convoy...no troops of any nation were on board.

No, we can't just say the Kraven troops no longer exist because they have had too much effect... The only reason the convoy has stayed in the harbor is because Kraven has been attempting to land troops... If Kraven was not aboard then the convoy would have left as soon as ordered... Say there were no foreign troops and the last few events in Port Angeles make no sense... The reason the convoy did not leave the harbor as ordered was the fact Kraven troops were on board and SF was preparing for them to launch an invasion...

If Kraven does not post on the destruction of the final ship today, I suggest that S.F. simply post on it, as the result will be the same either way (the KC troops where not in control long enough to change anything, Amestria's attack was launched before they shot the captain).

OOC: McKagan, how come ya changed your mind?

He wants to lower Mckagans non-covert profile in Torontia to increase its actionable options later.

As i told Amestria a couple of days ago - ill prolbly be able to stay in this RP now.

The other ones i was leaving for a progressing very slowly than anticipated. (And on an upish side - im off sick from work at the moment too so ive got more time - not that its completly an up side but hey ill take what i can get - at least im being paid to play nationstates.)

That's soundin pretty good...a professional NS player so to speak. Time to RP a thousand missiles aimed at one little destroyer.

That's soundin pretty good...a professional NS player so to speak.

Haha almost. I could get use to it but if i did i don't think id have a job left to get paid by.

So now the goal has been revealed, the reasoning behind the 500,000 Strong army to the north the large naval deployement, and other things. It's to take out all of East Torontia and all of Idaho. As well as possibly taking
Saint Fedski as a bonus gift. Just waiting for the Boom of the Bomb and I'll be off.

Y'know, if TLA invades the SF part of Torontia, it is a potentially GREAT propaganda chance. If the Amestrians/Yallak(dudes) REALLY want to simply keep the area peaceful, will they allow it to happen?...

Y'know, if TLA invades the SF part of Torontia, it is a potentially GREAT propaganda chance. If the Amestrians/Yallak(dudes) REALLY want to simply keep the area peaceful, will they allow it to happen?...
They might after evidence of the potental attack that Saint Fedski was going to pull with that convoy. Or the bomblaced ship that's in the new Saint Fedski convoy. If Saint Fedski are declared Terrorists the LA can declare that they are going to stop them from commiting more terrorist acts and to remove the Torontian Intermn Government who has been supporting the BC terrorists attacks. (Lies of course but I wouldn't be suprised if there was some TG conversation about an alliance between the two groups.)

OOC: Probably after this debacle is over, I think all nations involved are going to be accused of imperialism and have a long time recovering their reputations/

If by imperialism you mean peacekeeping, protecting Torontia and aiding in its reconstruction, then yes... Amestria is doing that...

OOC: As in to say, they are exploiting foreign lands for their own gain.

Amestria has not earned one penny from Torontia... (and there is no need for the OOC here, this is the OOC thread)...

and have a long time recovering their reputations/

Some nations actually value things other then their reputations.

Oh yes. Like Automagfreek's leader for example: he is a warrior, not a politician. And don't say that Amestria, there is bound to be some profiteer....

Amestria has spent billions in Torontia without any return income (over 30 billion on reconstruction/job creation alone). Amestria is not collecting any tribute nor is it extracting resources from Torontia, unlike SF... So it is kind of hard to see how Amestria's actions have been imperialistic...

That's what they all say.... :rolleyes:

The Amestrian Occupatio Authoritie's Accounts and the Torontian Provisional Government's Accounts/Budget are public record (minus military secrets)... So if anyone doubts Amestria's honest behavior, they can take a look for themselves (its called transparancy)...

ICly and OOCly, I trust the SWC much more than the Yallakian-Xirniumite-Amestrian lot, because I'm much closer to them.

ICly and OOCly, I trust the SWC much more than the Yallakian-Xirniumite-Amestrian lot, because I'm much closer to them.

ICly the High Ecclesiarchy wouldn't trust Southeastasia as far as it could throw them, they are a bunch of scheming, sychophantic fools who assert righteousness yet fawn over the more powerful states despite clear human rights abuses to curry favour with them. The High Ecclesiarchy has never and will never stoop to such lows.

Or so that's their perspective. My characters are not like that once you get to know them.

scheming, sychophantic fools who assert righteousness yet fawn over the more powerful states despite clear human rights abuses to curry favour with them.
BTW, that's what the radical conservatives in the US like Limbaugh think of liberals.

BTW, that's what the radical conservatives in the US like Limbaugh think of liberals.

Is that an attempt to call the High Ecclesiarchy neocons despite the fact that my nation values liberal civil rights?

We call statements like yours ad hominem attacks.

No offense intended. I was trying to remind you that we are in the same ideology OOCly and my characters are also liberals ICly.

and my characters are also liberals ICly.
Liberals do not take moral absolutist and self-righteous views or condemn modern nations for their past crimes, like Southeastasia does, but I digress. We're taking this thread off-topic. If you want to continue this please TG me.

Saint Fedski is continuing to mobilize What IC proof do you have?

“Attention all commands. Saint Fedskian Forces are approaching the blockade in force. Commence Operation Amendment.”
Before we take this any further, those are DMG ships. Not SF. DMG as in the Dominion of DMG, owner of DMI. Secondly, you would not know of any SF ships in the group because you have not spotted them...you have no visual contact with which to distinguish the two nations' ships. All you should be able to tell is that there is a large convoy, with some large ships...maybe you could tell there are combat ships but without visual contact you should have no idea. And just because you see ships on your radar or whatever you decide to attack Seattle?

Why they think you're mobilizing? They thought that your convoy was a mobilization.

Five cargo ships and 3 destroyers? That's an uber killer mobilization. Your intelligence sucks. Would you like some of mine? :P.

Anyways, I do see where you're coming from now.

Is that an attempt to call the High Ecclesiarchy neocons despite the fact that my nation values liberal civil rights?

We call statements like yours ad hominem attacks.Looks like you're bringing IC tensions into the OOC thread from where I sit.

And, just in case anyone gets jumpy, as an ally of Saint Fedski, I'm ICly aware of the attacks on the convoy.

If I didn't RP my attack/defence...could someone tell me how to improve it? If it's the RP is ok..I will RP the frigates getting in on the defence, the shore batteries, the carriers, the Torontian Navy and I will do a ship-launched missile assault as well.

that was my first attempt at an Aerial RP and a missile RP. I could really use some constructive comments because I know that its pretty bad.

Looks like you're bringing IC tensions into the OOC thread from where I sit.

And, just in case anyone gets jumpy, as an ally of Saint Fedski, I'm ICly aware of the attacks on the convoy.

Score!

Does that mean that if all out war is reached between SF and anyone, you'll come in and pwn them all?

It means that Sarz is delivering some modern weapons to help me survive. Whether they stay or not depends on whether Yallak, Amestria and TLA attack the internationally escorted convoys or not. And of course they will because there is SF ships within the convoys and the stated convoys are clearly military supplies destined for Saint Fedskian Forces...so SCORE is right.

Just warning you DMG the Black Hand and the TSU aren't afraid of war with you. They won't cancel a convoy that they know is going to aid the enemy. You have put yourself in target by aiding Saint Fedski. As soon as Saint Fedski starts a counter attack you are a valid target for aiding the enemy. And unless Saint Fedski is illegally flying the DMG flag, they'll be able to identify the Saint Fedski ships. I've been in contact with a long time lurker and he'll get in on this also. and he has both a Strong Economy and a population of 922 million.

Er.... good question. Far. In relation to North America, Czardas would be somewhere north and east of Israel, approximately 3000 km in the extended NS world (past The Silver Sky which is 1600 km from Czardas).

Czardas by your country is on the other side of the world from Torontia! I believe launching the Czardasian airforce directly into Torontia is a godmod for the following reason.

1) Fighter planes have little reserve fuel/take up a lot of fuel and fuel transport planes can only aid so many...

2) To fly directly into Torontia you would have to cross continuasly into the airspace of other nations (possibly even Amestria's)... Even if Czarda's allies have no problem with it, all other nations will have some objections to a military swarm passing over their countries! Things like that do not happen for a reason...

3) All other airforces in Torontia arrived on mobile bases, which means everyone recognizes that Torontia is too far for fighter planes to fly to directly!

4) It is far too quick (see the quick moving army godmod)

If those fighter planes arrive in six hours I am going to ignore them (I suggest you revise your post)

Sounds like Kahanistan's not too far from Czardas, then... in the Negev Desert area (southern Israel / NE Egypt / SW Jordan, ~30-35,000 sq. km.) How long would it take for the transport ships and planes to get to Torontia?

The planes are traveling at a transport speed of ~Mach 1 (about 1200 km/h). Thus it would make sense that they could arrive in approximately 2 1/2 hours. 6 hours was a compromise, in fact.

In addition, they're launching out to the west, across an ocean with the only land between Czardas and North America being allied airspace (Silver Skyian FYI, on a large island ~1600 km from Czardas). They'll just have to pass over Mexico (if that exists in this world) where they'll anyway be camouflaged by the RADAR jamming, presence of an actual tropical storm, and their normal stealth devices.

Yes, we will have to swing south (accounting for the extra 1 1/2-2 hours) to avoid trespassing into others' airspace, but it's probably worth it.

How is this a godmode? During the war between Czardas and The Warmaster, an even larger air armada made the >3600-km distance from Czardas to WM in 3 hours (it was over a sea) and nobody objected...

Sounds like Kahanistan's not too far from Czardas, then... in the Negev Desert area (southern Israel / NE Egypt / SW Jordan, ~30-35,000 sq. km.) How long would it take for the transport ships and planes to get to Torontia?
Well, Czardas is what you get if you moved Israel about 300-500 km north of its current position, with the appropriate change in climate... on a similar latitude to approximately Delaware (East Coast)/Oregon (West Coast). Kahanistan would then be a somewhat longer journey (3041 km in a direct line, or probably closer to 3500 km with going around islands). Figure out your velocity (transport ships would be going about 43-50 km/h, transport planes about 500-1000 km/h, with stops for refueling etc.).

The fuel issue....

And a lack of past objections is no defense against present objections. The reality is that Czardas exists on the other side of the world from Torontia, fighter planes could not reach Torontia directly from Czardas, they cannot even reach Torontia from Amestria!

And since Amestria is in the area of Europe, would you not be passing very close to that country?

What if they went the other way... east through Chinese and Pacific territory to western North America? Or headed north through Eastern Europe / Russia over the North Pole and down through Canada into BC? There are plenty of ways to avoid Amestrian airspace.

They would still bump into some countries airspace (and going East would take longer, I am not sure about going North)...

But as I have pointed out fighter planes do not have enough fuel to fly such a distance (even with assistence). Even with PMT, fighter planes are short range. A long range bomber could fly from Czardas to Torontia, the same with a military transport plane, but not a fighter plane...

If Czarda's entire airforce could fly into Torontia then there is no reason why Amestria's entire airforce could not follow suit, or Yallaks... But they can't, its called the tryanny of distance!

Amestria has spent billions in Torontia without any return income (over 30 billion on reconstruction/job creation alone). Amestria is not collecting any tribute nor is it extracting resources from Torontia, unlike SF... So it is kind of hard to see how Amestria's actions have been imperialistic...

Well, your huge initial claims, and then your cries of "ZOMG IMPERIALIST" when other countries came in and tentatively claimed land to reconstruct was sort of suspicious. I won't deny that my country is imperialist, but we don't start wars for land; we wait for governments to collapse (OOC DEATs for inactivity is how I've gained most of my land), or, on occasion, we occupy, rebuild, and keep conquered lands. But we're ICly a bit pissed at you for moving into Torontia (though we're keeping quiet about it), because you had absolutely nothing to do with Torontia before its collapse, yet we had had to withstand plenty of hostility from them, and then you appear to go all imperialist and claim land that, if it could be said to belong fairly to any country, would probably belong to us. Kind of like someone else receiving all the credit/benefit of your hard work. [/rant]

And McKagan, you have a TG.

Well, your huge initial claims, and then your cries of "ZOMG IMPERIALIST" when other countries came in and tentatively claimed land to reconstruct was sort of suspicious. I won't deny that my country is imperialist, but we don't start wars for land; we wait for governments to collapse (OOC DEATs for inactivity is how I've gained most of my land), or, on occasion, we occupy, rebuild, and keep conquered lands. But we're ICly a bit pissed at you for moving into Torontia (though we're keeping quiet about it), because you had absolutely nothing to do with Torontia before its collapse, yet we had had to withstand plenty of hostility from them, and then you appear to go all imperialist and claim land that, if it could be said to belong fairly to any country, would probably belong to us. Kind of like someone else receiving all the credit/benefit of your hard work. [/rant]

And McKagan, you have a TG.

Amestria goal in Torontia is not to take land, but to construct a strong liberal democracy in Torontia that will be a force for peace and stability throughout the world (and be an ally of Amestria and Amestria's allies). So Amestria's goals are rather anti-imperialist as they have nothing to do with taking over land, taking resources, or creating a puppet. Amestria is being just as imperialist as the allied powers where in rebuilding Japan/West Germany. I do not think Amestria could be said to have gained any immediate benefit from its occupation of Torontia...

Oh, and just to point out, Amestria in the begining only sent 100,000 troops... As I recall Hal. and Mckagans land claims were rejected outright by everyone (Yallak, SF, est) and Amestria itself did not say anything on the subject (it just had its forces prevent Hal/Mckagan from moving into its occupied areas)... It was only later that Amestria began to ship in troops (after stoping LA from going nuclear) when it found itself defacto controler of Western Torontia's coast and the OP...

Hal. you will remember that Amestria sent Hal. a secret IC TG, demanding 1. Hal. return their troops to help maintain stability. 2. Stop claiming land! The idea that Amestria just entered and in a very German way forced everyone else out is totally false IC and OOC...

And Amestria's hostility towards Mckagan happened after all the suspicous terrorist attacks/insulting Mckagan diplomacy...

They would still bump into some countries airspace (and going East would take longer, I am not sure about going North)...

But as I have pointed out fighter planes do not have enough fuel to fly such a distance (even with assistence). Even with PMT, fighter planes are short range. A long range bomber could fly from Czardas to Torontia, the same with a military transport plane, but not a fighter plane...

If Czarda's entire airforce could fly into Torontia then there is no reason why Amestria's entire airforce could not follow suit, or Yallaks... But they can't, its called the tryanny of distance!
(For one thing, it's nowhere near my entire [7200 plane and counting] air force that I'm sending into Torontia... just about 576-720 planes. Minor point.)

I could RP them stopping to refuel in allied lands such as Silver Skyian Czardas-controlled airbases midway between Czardas and North America, if you want.

Before we take this any further, those are DMG ships. Not SF. DMG as in the Dominion of DMG, owner of DMI. Secondly, you would not know of any SF ships in the group because you have not spotted them...you have no visual contact with which to distinguish the two nations' ships. All you should be able to tell is that there is a large convoy, with some large ships...maybe you could tell there are combat ships but without visual contact you should have no idea. And just because you see ships on your radar or whatever you decide to attack Seattle?

Radar picks up massive fleet and they would also have been seen by my squadrons on CAP at all times far out from the fleet at all times. And as shipping to Torontia is blocked it is automatically assumed that they are yours (or some of the allies you’ve contacted) - thereby resulting in my current actions. Offensive.

Why? Because if you make a move - I can maintain control of the situation (and keep you having to react to my calls) by making an attack elsewhere - Empire doctrine teaches to always keep the initiative.

On a note about what I can/cannot see – Naval radars are highly advanced an use several different radars + satellite imaging and show it as a 3D model on the ships tactical display. (Meaning we can identify the no. of ships, the class (or assumed class) of the vessels and whether or not they are armed (which is always assumed too).

(For one thing, it's nowhere near my entire [7200 plane and counting] air force that I'm sending into Torontia... just about 576-720 planes. Minor point.)

I could RP them stopping to refuel in allied lands such as Silver Skyian Czardas-controlled airbases midway between Czardas and North America, if you want.

That is acceptable, by my estimate it would take six hours for the large planes to arrive (bombers/transports) as they are flying directly to Torontia. For the fighters it would take longer (stoping to refuel/pilots to rest/Atlantic winds)... How much longer would that be?...

The ten Vittorio Veneto Class cruisiers, ten Ticonderoga Class cruisers, fourteen Arleigh Burke destroyers, twenty Iroquois destroyers, positioned right where the Strait meets the Puget sound, were in a perfect position to counter the Yallak missiles.

Each ship fired two salvos of anti-missile missiles, ranging from Sea Sparrows to Otomats and as soon as the Yallak missiles were withing range, all the decoys they could possibly launch at one time, would be launched.

You need to finish this. You have to decide how many of my missiles get through and hit the airport not me. I can tell you though that with those kind of missiles and the comparatively small number being fired – at least two thirds of the missiles are still going to hit he airport.


Launching first, were the 70 Hornets. Armed with 2 HARMs each, they sped in at almost top speed, towards the Yallak Fleet at sea level, getting to within 30 miles of the fleet before being engaged by the defences, the 140 HARMs were fired. Hopefully they would knockout the enemy radar and communications before the main attacks came from the Tigers. Providing high level air cover at 45,000 feet were nearly 100 Falcons.

<snip>

Once safely back within range of the defences, the Tigers would join their Falcon buddies at 45,000-50,000 feet waiting to pounce on any threatening aircraft while the remaining six flights of Tigers launched and began their attack.

Was good up to here. You can’t RP you planes taking off, flying at least 30 miles (though some would have to go a lot more than that to get into range) and then firing at my ships. Things take time. By posting all that in one post you’ve refused to give me a chance to reply (ignoring all the ground base defences I have as well as the CAP planes I launched when the DMG fleet was detected – both which could intercept before you could hit my ships.)

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On a separate note you need to post a reply to my bombardment of Olympia so that I can continue my attack.

Also, once the missiles were fired against Seattle airport, the ships (as i indicated in the post) began firing on your ships in the channel. I just didn't write how many missiles - so ill do it here - roughly 200 at each of your warships in the channel.

Insulting McKagan diplomacy?

I rock.

Better watch out, next time I'll send TEN marines!

:p

Sorry, couldn't resist.

More TG goodness for ye, my merry comrade-in-arms.

I are respondoider.

Secret: The two submarines target the DMG fleet with 10 N2 bombs and 10 EMP bombs (strategic missiles which can not be intercepted by normal anti-missile missiles, the N2 is equal to 1000 tons of TNT while the EMP delivers a powerful electromagnetic pulse). They also target all SF/TIG airports in Eastern Torontia.

Amestria: Mind explaining why they can't be shot down? Or are you just going to say that it is impossible...

Also, mind telling me where they are in relation to my naval fleet...

They are underwater and your fleet does not know of their existence. I did not say they could not be shot down, just not by conventional anti-missile missiles. They are strategic missiles, they go into space and then come down (they are like nuclear missiles, except with conventional/electronic warheads).

And it is a moot point because I have another use in mind for those missiles...

I understand that my fleet does not know of their existence ICly, but OOCly it would be helpful to know if they were firing from 10 km away or across the ocean.

I don't get what you mean, "I have another use in mind for those missiles..." You fired them didn't you... what use could they have other than attacking me now?

I did not fire them, I posted the subs were targeting your fleet (amoung other things) with ten missiles (there is a big difference)... They as yet remain unfired (that will change shortly)

As for where the subs are, they are quite a ways from your fleet, appraoching but still a ways from Torontia's south western coastline...

Amestria has begun to use EMP bombs in Torontia (although no one will be initially aware that Amestria deployed it, as opposed to Yallak or some third party)... For details on what the EMP bomb does (just for convience) here is a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_bomb

Well if Saint Fedski has any SU-25's then they'll still be flying, SU-25's were designed to be immune to EMP waves. But I doubt they do and even if they did the plane is completely useless against ground targets and dogfights.

OOC: I wonder what will happen if the Yallakian warships do hit the Sarzonian convoy. It'll be a pretty interesting naval battle...

And McKagan, two questions:

What's your national adjective? For some reason, I think 'McKaganese' sounds like it. ???
Two, are you going to try and do something about convincing Sarz to remove the ignore on you?

Its a DMG fleet is it not?

And whats this about Sarz having an ignore on Mckagan?

ICly the High Ecclesiarchy wouldn't trust Southeastasia as far as it could throw them, they are a bunch of scheming, sychophantic fools who assert righteousness yet fawn over the more powerful states despite clear human rights abuses to curry favour with them. The High Ecclesiarchy has never and will never stoop to such lows.
Oh, and BTW Xirnium, if you think that my characters are hypocrites, look again. Lin was being a diplomat, and you have Yallak protecting you. I'm not a protectorate, and my human rights record is shiny clean.

EDIT: And Amestria, Sarz did send a convoy containing surplus Sarzonian tanks and escorted by the ISN (Incorporated Sarzonian Navy) to the Saint Fedskian forces. Check his Portland Iron Works 3.0 thread. He just hasn't rped them here.

Well then I assume they have not passed the blockade because Yallak is not letting anyone through.

Oh, and BTW Xirnium, if you think that my characters are hypocrites, look again. Lin was being a diplomat
I said your characters are sycophants, not hypocrites, and that is true regardless of whether or not they are diplomats.

Yallak protecting you. I'm not a protectorate
I do have Yallak as an ally and Xirnium is greatful for the Infinite Empire because it defended Xirnium against Kraven when self-righteous nations like your own sat back and did nothing.

Even so Xirnium does not turn to Yallak for every little thing, for example we played a huge part in diffusing the Stoddenia WMD crisis on our own and Kravania hasn't been seen since my cruise missile attack on them.

my human rights record is shiny clean.
Good for you, you have a perfect nation, how wonderful. Xirnium on the other hand is a real nation.

Anyway, for the love of god, please from now on TG me with your off-topic criticisms, comments, questions, whatever, about Xirnium. Or maybe I should make an OOC thread for you?

[Edit: Here you go, I made a thread just for you http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=458109]

You need to finish this. You have to decide how many of my missiles get through and hit the airport not me. I can tell you though that with those kind of missiles and the comparatively small number being fired – at least two thirds of the missiles are still going to hit he airport.
My intention was to give you the chance to RP the downed missiles, the diverted ones the duds and whatever else could possibly happen to them. I'll take that as giving me permission to RP your losses. (Don't worry, I won't say I shot them all down or they were all duds...only 99.9% of them were. One missile still managed to hit ;)

Was good up to here. You can’t RP you planes taking off, flying at least 30 miles (though some would have to go a lot more than that to get into range) and then firing at my ships. Things take time. By posting all that in one post you’ve refused to give me a chance to reply (ignoring all the ground base defences I have as well as the CAP planes I launched when the DMG fleet was detected – both which could intercept before you could hit my ships.)
Firstly, they flew to within 30 miles of your fleet which only furthers your point. However, the max range of some of the missiles is 80 miles which means there is a pretty good chance that I could fire off all the harpoons before being intercepted by you.
Like you say, things take time. Because this was a pre-planned surprise attack, my forces could launch it without questions. You however would take time to react....first your radar operators would pick up a flight of some very common aircraft...infact I believe the TPG uses them. Then after talking to your commanding officer or whoever, the officer would issue an order... whether to fire or to wait or whatever. Then the operators or weapons officer would have to launch the missiles, which would take time. Next, the missiles would have to fly out to meet the incoming aircraft therefore even more time. Assuming the average response time was taken and that they were immediately identifed as SF,the attack aircraft, flying at top speed would already be well within range to fire their HARMs (which seek out your Radar and communications).
After the initial attack, the CO could just have the weapons officer engage any aircraft that was within range which would surely increase the losses if the 2nd and/or 3rd flights.
By posting all of that, I just outlined what was planned/happened post attack. You can still RP your AA defences engaging my aircraft and I will most definitely RP the losses. But like I said, the initial flight was a well planned surprise attack by an extremely common aircraft on your RADAR and comms. If you were to engage both missiles and aircraft, it would definitely take even more time to react.

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On a separate note you need to post a reply to my bombardment of Olympia so that I can continue my attack.

Also, once the missiles were fired against Seattle airport, the ships (as i indicated in the post) began firing on your ships in the channel. I just didn't write how many missiles - so ill do it here - roughly 200 at each of your warships in the channel.
I'm sure regular missiles wouldn't do much damage to concrete structures and a concrete airfield. Also, it would help if you said what kind of missiles were used against my ships. On another note....200 at each ship? That's a little overkill. 200 total would be pushing it. I know you have a like 700 ships or something...but can't you tone it down a little?

That is acceptable, by my estimate it would take six hours for the large planes to arrive (bombers/transports) as they are flying directly to Torontia. For the fighters it would take longer (stoping to refuel/pilots to rest/Atlantic winds)... How much longer would that be?...
Probably ~1 hour. However, fighters can also travel faster than bombers or transports. (My heavy bombers, the Hailstorms, have a top speed of Mach 1.5, with 'sprint' range extending to Mach 2. On the other hand, the two kinds of fighters and the fighter-bombers [Daggers, Peregrines, and Strikers] can go Mach 2.4, Mach 4, and Mach 3.5 respectively. Therefore understandably they could arrive faster.

I'll adjust the ETA to 8 hours then, accounting for the difference in speed. But I'll still have them all arrive basically at once (the larger planes will go straight through, but the smaller ones can go faster, so it adds up to the same thing). I'll post the landing in my allied airbases now in that case....

You know I say enough with the missiles. You do know they supposely cost money? A nation cannot fire off a million missiles without running out of military funding. A missile can cost up to at least a million dollars and that's just small ones. It's getting kind of stupid. And how in the heck do those people on the ships live, they must have a missile under every bed and in ever corner of the ships to constantly have such a supply. And if so one explosion could level the ship. I mean at least I'm a little more realistic. Send out at max 50 not 300. A thousand missiles fired is borderline godmoding, and you could ignore it.
To fire off 3,000 would cost at least Zillions in costs.

Why don't people REALLY send their forces against each other, rather than shooting missiles at each other?

I know that after a point it will be a godmod for a nation to say they even have any missiles LEFT at the rate we're going.

Why don't people REALLY send their forces against each other, rather than shooting missiles at each other?

I know that after a point it will be a godmod for a nation to say they even have any missiles LEFT at the rate we're going.
Like I said there must be no room on these ships if they are carrying 10,000 missiles each or something. (Imagines sailors sleeping on the floor because the missiles have their bunkbeds, having to eat standing up because the mess hall is full of missiles. I hate super super dreadnaughts.)

The most missiles any vessel carrys in my navy is actually fairly small, since i'm not a huge fan of missile spam. (That and the fact the anti-missile tech is several generations ahead of missile tech on NS.)

A nice Strike Dreadnaught loaded out like a armory ship but with more guns than a battleship is always nice, too.

By the way, in my last post, Kahanistan doesn't know that the Amestrians fired the missiles, or even that the attack wasn't an accident. The medical supplies are coming from the troops already there, so sinking my ship won't stop them and it'll only trigger an international incident that might threaten Kahanistan's neutrality.

I'm sure regular missiles wouldn't do much damage to concrete structures and a concrete airfield. Also, it would help if you said what kind of missiles were used against my ships. On another note....200 at each ship? That's a little overkill. 200 total would be pushing it. I know you have a like 700 ships or something...but can't you tone it down a little?

Yallak has over 1000 ships...

On the subject of massive missile bombardments heres some food for thought... In RL the nation with the highest military budget is the USA (600 billion)... In NS we have military budgets reaching into the tens of trillions... So I say if a nation has trillions in its defense buget it can afford have a massive fleet with a large number of offensive missiles... and ships could be designed in numerous ways to account for the higher numbers of offensive weapons... Ever consider the Yallak fleet has supply ships loaded with missiles or has had spares flown in (thats what the Amestrian fleet had done after the conflict with Red Tide2)...

Also, consider the fact that Yallak has over 1000 ships. If each of them has 55 cruise missiles, that is 55,000 cruise missiles in total...

Kahanistan, there is no danger of Yallak sinking your fleet, he will let the Kahanistan ships through the blockade... TG...

Ever consider the Yallak fleet has supply ships loaded with missiles or has had spares flown in (thats what the Amestrian fleet had done after the conflict with Red Tide2)...

Ever consider saying that IC so that your enemies have the ability to attack your supply lines...

Ever consider saying that IC so that your enemies have the ability to attack your supply lines...

I meant they were part of the main fleet (and I was just giving a possible solution)... Lets wait for Yallak to explain it if there is controversy...

(Amestria had its cruise missiles flown in vie Jefferson County International Airport, which I did state in IC. I have also IC posted statements on the Amestrian supply lines...)

Actually Yallak does not have to explain anything, he has over 1000 ships (no one considers that a godmod, he can damn well afford it)...

If each ship could launch 55 cruise missiles then that equals 55,000 cruise missiles in total... So no, Yallak is in no way godmoding his fleets amount of offensive weapons...

Nor are Yallaks cruise missiles all powerful, they cannot reach targets in far Eastern Torontia for example (like Spokane), unlike Amestria's cruise missiles (which can)... However, Amestria instead decided to hit those areas with strategic weapondry (greater chance of success)...

Why don't people REALLY send their forces against each other, rather than shooting missiles at each other?
Because they'd get slaughtered by a not-quite-so-honorable enemy? Wars are won by missiles these days...

I know that after a point it will be a godmod for a nation to say they even have any missiles LEFT at the rate we're going.
Well, if you mass-produce missiles, they will cost less (closer to $500,000 each)... but either way though, missile spam is just kind of ridiculous. A battleship or superdreadnaught COULD conceivably have 200 or 500 missiles to be launched, but even a missile frigate could not hold more than 80 or 100 missiles, and that's without crew. As for planes, good fighter-bombers are hard to come by because not many planes will have room for both AAMs and ASMs. (A Striker can hold only 4 LRAAMs, 8 MRAAMs, or 16 SRAAMs in addition to air-to-surface missiles and bombs, and they're fairly large.)

Of course, if you're launching say 30-40 missiles each from a fleet of 2000 ships, you probably spend enough on national defense to equip that fleet with enough missiles to fire off. (A nation that spends about $44 trillion on national defense has a missile arsenal of over 100 million, for instance. Also, not coincidentally, a very small navy...) Otherwise there's no point really, because you'll just be sending out large floating pieces of missile bait with no offensive capability.

Czardas I have a question... In the event our two nations decide to talk about Torontia, who would Amestria contact on the subject (your nation is in anarchy)?

I'm not as much saying it's a godmod as it is BORING.

Come on, show some balls (so to speak) and DO something.

Amestria and Yallak are launching a ground offensive in Olympia... We just have to wait for S.F. to respond.

Be patient, it has only been about one to two hours since hostilies broke out. That is the reason for all the missile posts and yet few troop posts... the troop movements will come later (they have to mass, organize, est.)...

Amestria, I don't quiet get how you RP'd your last IC post?

Missile attacks are usually RP'd in the sense that the attacker fires, lists the targets, and the defender says how many missiles were downed and what the surviving ones hit.

How you got by that and RP'd your missiles "hitting" SF targets is beyond me.

He RP's his counter missiles and then I RP their effect on my missiles... He then RP's the missiles that get through hitting the targets (I did not RP them hitting their targets, just seconds away from doing so and listed the missiles that had survived). I do not see how it is a problem as I used the exact formula he provided (24 interocepters, 8 out of ten chance of hitting) to RP the success rate...

Does that mean that when someone fires a rifle, we must have an exchange of 10-20 posts for the reactions of various forces upon a single bullet?

I've never seen it RP'd like that, of course, there's no real problem; it's just odd, methinks.

No on the single bullet, the N2/EMP missiles have only taken four posts (counting SF RPing them hitting).

Remember that SF is keeping different hours, so that has resulted in a slightly different posting structure when it comes to RPing with his forces... (Another thing to remember is that S.F. did not post on the introcepters concentrating on protecting one section of Torontia, he was general in his posts on the interocepters targets, in that which missiles got through was left to me.)

Ever consider saying that IC so that your enemies have the ability to attack your supply lines...

I have already stated IC once that supply ships were coming in to refill missile supplies (after my first strike on the BC terrorists).

Actually Yallak does not have to explain anything, he has over 1000 ships (no one considers that a godmod, he can damn well afford it)...

If each ship could launch 55 cruise missiles then that equals 55,000 cruise missiles in total... So no, Yallak is in no way godmoding his fleets amount of offensive weapons...

On average my ships have about 60-70 missile launchers. If each has 1 in the tube and 6 in storage then thats 420,000 - 490,000 missiles in total (in the 1000 ships = i can fire 3000 at an airport.)

My intention was to give you the chance to RP the downed missiles, the diverted ones the duds and whatever else could possibly happen to them. I'll take that as giving me permission to RP your losses.

When it come to missile strikes thats fine. I launch em and you say how many get through your defences.

Firstly, they flew to within 30 miles of your fleet which only furthers your point. However, the max range of some of the missiles is 80 miles which means there is a pretty good chance that I could fire off all the harpoons before being intercepted by you.
Like you say, things take time. Because this was a pre-planned surprise attack, my forces could launch it without questions. You however would take time to react....first your radar operators would pick up a flight of some very common aircraft...infact I believe the TPG uses them. Then after talking to your commanding officer or whoever, the officer would issue an order... whether to fire or to wait or whatever. Then the operators or weapons officer would have to launch the missiles, which would take time. Next, the missiles would have to fly out to meet the incoming aircraft therefore even more time. Assuming the average response time was taken and that they were immediately identifed as SF,the attack aircraft, flying at top speed would already be well within range to fire their HARMs (which seek out your Radar and communications).

True. But the second the planes came out of Seattle they would be targeted. Remember it is our plan to destroy you completely - anything that isn't Amestrian or Yallakian is hostile - most especially planes leaving SF areas of sea or land.

By posting all of that, I just outlined what was planned/happened post attack. You can still RP your AA defences engaging my aircraft and I will most definitely RP the losses. But like I said, the initial flight was a well planned surprise attack by an extremely common aircraft on your RADAR and comms. If you were to engage both missiles and aircraft, it would definitely take even more time to react.

Goodo. I will RP your attack and my ground defences firing - it is just that by the time your first planes were in the air and especially by the time they fired - the defences would be targeting your craft. Even at maximum range you would be under fire from my SAM defences before you could launch all your weapons. This is especially true to the second wave and after.

And on another note - after checking my factbook (which you might be best to have a look at too) my long range ship based SAM defences have a range of 87.5 miles - so they outrange your planes.

I'm sure regular missiles wouldn't do much damage to concrete structures and a concrete airfield. Also, it would help if you said what kind of missiles were used against my ships. On another note....200 at each ship? That's a little overkill. 200 total would be pushing it. I know you have a like 700 ships or something...but can't you tone it down a little?

These missile are designed for surface to surface attack and the penetration of armour - concrete is not a problem really. The missiles are my ASSM-205 missiles:

ASSM-205 ‘Executioner’

Function: Surface to Surface Missile
Date Deployed: October 2005
Power: 680 kg (1,497 lb) BF-107 Turbofan
Length: 4.8 m (15.57 ft)
Wingspan: 1.25 m (4.05 ft)
Diameter: 0.42 m (1.36 ft)
Launch Weight: 1,000 kg (2,201.8 lb)
Speed: Mach 3.5
Range: 280 km (175 miles)
Warhead: 415 kg High Explosive Penetration Blast
Unit Cost: $730,000

As for the attacks on your ships - ok - well say 50.

Czardas I have a question... In the event our two nations decide to talk about Torontia, who would Amestria contact on the subject (your nation is in anarchy)?
You'd contact Foreign Minister Kari Alhoun. (The official title is The Libertarian Concordance of Czardas and not whatever else it happens to appear as at the time.)

Also, while the nation is officially in a state of anarchy, the Governing Council still exists and is taking care of the various departments as usual. 'Anarchy' refers to the fact that citizens are allowed to do basically almost anything else they want. (And the fact that I'm not too sure if I want to sacrifice my economic strength to become a Civil Rights Lovefest or whatever the next category is. ;))

Amestria, can ya please respond to my Foreign Minister?

Why would Amestria respond, it is not as if anything productive would be accomplished... Silence can be a response at times...

All RP the Reponse of the Amestrian Foreign Ministry to the SEA Message.

SEA, I have posted Amestria's reponse to your Foreign Minister.

Thanks Amestria. And Yallak, what would you say are the chances of the Yallakian Fleet overcoming the ISN?

Well i refer to the ISN as 'floating metal deposits' but if it came down to a war of naval assests - i really don't know. I have some massive warships and great defences and offenses but im pretty sure he does too.

Sarz does have more experience in the naval area though. Still it would be pretty even if the numbers were matched.

Then Sarz drags in The Freethinkers, Questers/Hogsweatia, Praetonia and Isselmere-Nieland. I'm going to enjoy watching the Yallakian fleet and the pro-SF fleets blow the crap outta each other until neither side has a navy anymore.

Only thing is there won't be a war. I'm not stupid enough to challenge Sarzonia (and i won't bother with DMG either). Fighting them weakens me. And whatever they drop off, be it tanks or supplies, will be easliy captured or destroyed as Saint Fedski's ground forces collapse under the Amestrian/Yallakian attack.

EDIT: As it is the SF navy is under heavy assault and his air force will soon be out of the skies.

I know your men are not stupid. I'm just using Sarzonia and his allies (all of which are shipbuilding legends) as a scenario.


EDIT: But I'm going to enjoy to seeing you and Amestria deal with the Halberdgardian-McKaganese backed insurgency. While they are smaller, their rp skills are equal to your good writing Yallak. Godspeed on that.

Well if it happened it would be bloody and destructive. But unless Sarz starts it - nothing should happen. I have no plans in the near future which involve war with him.

out of interest what would people reaction be to the specific targeting of civilians (those supporting/under the SF TIG)?

It seems absurd that a world wide war could start over a little nation like Torontia, which only a few months ago no one knew existed...

Yallak TG...

Got it...

Don't most wars start over nothing or things no one knows why there about!!

out of interest what would people reaction be to the specific targeting of civilians (those supporting/under the SF TIG)?

Sometimes good wheat must be destroyed so that the weeds can be removed. The High Ecclesiarchy would hate nothing more then to see Tanakis returned, and would sooner see all of Torontia turned to ash.

By the way, when/if it becomes known that SF is involved in a secret alliance with Kraven, would anyone object to Xirnium bringing the war home to Saint Fedski. Xirnium is not interested in getting involved in a war in Torontia but would be far more concerned at the fact that a Adamantine Member allied with Kraven.

Xirnium, I thought it was 'one political entity shall emerge' (I'm refering to Kraven).

A good analogy. I was thinking of a move like that - if you cant hide or protect your troops in a civilian centre - then you can't anywhere. The enemy becaome fearful and confused, not to mention desperate before they have noone left alive to support them.

out of interest what would people reaction be to the specific targeting of civilians (those supporting/under the SF TIG)?

Amestria would be horrified at the large scale targeting of civilians in this instance, and it might create a major anti-war movement back home...

(Note: Not opposition to mass bombing, just the specific targeting of civilians... Remember that Amestria is in Torontia to restore order, rebuild/restructure the country, establish a strong democratic government, and protect the Torontian population.)

Xirnium, I thought it was 'one political entity shall emerge' (I'm refering to Kraven).

By 'hate most' I meant it would be viewed by the High Ecclesiarchy as the worst possible outcome for Torontia (short of Kraven itself taking over, but I don't think that's a realistic concern as Kraven backs Tanakis). I didn't mean that Tanakis' return is the worst possible outcome in the world (the worst outcomes involve Kraven in some kind of victorious position).

Rest assured Kraven remains our most hated enemy, (Torontia was always little more then a joke really) and in fact the only reason Xirnium even cares about Torontia is because Tanakis was a lapdog ally of Kraven in the Xirnium-Kraven War. Tanakis is definitely an enemy of Xirnium, but certainly not the worst enemy.

I assumed as much. It was just a thought that i came up with while talking to a friend today.

A good analogy. I was thinking of a move like that - if you cant hide or protect your troops in a civilian centre - then you can't anywhere. The enemy becaome fearful and confused, not to mention desperate before they have noone left alive to support them.

They will already be confused with the N2/EMP bombardment...

Mass bombing against urben centers would be extreme and unnecessary... This is not Kraven we are dealing with...

Also the targeting of civilions would just aid those groups in Torontia opposed to our pressence and harm our credability...

Yeah. Still the option always remains for later (just incase SF has a mericle or support from larger powers). Remeber that i was never here to help the torontians only to end hostilities, and if such action was everrequired we would publicly denounce that you had any involvement. But i doubt i will need to adopt such tactics anymore, it just seemed a fitting reprisal to SF's attack.

I see Xirnium. Amestria and Yallak, what do you think of the SWC ICly?

Amestria does not have a high opinion of the SWC's tactics. Amestria also has at present poor relations with some of its members. It has recently come to see the SWC as a possible threat due to some of its member’s interference in Torontia... though they are not public with such views...

However these views are the result of recent events and could change (unlikely)...

oh man...where to start responding. Amestria, SEA, TGs. ummm I'll start with the Yallak "situation" at the moment (hopefully putting it on RP pause for a bit). Then I will respond to Amestria's invasion and RP my counter attacks. Then I will RP my bombing raid and my special forces inside the OP. Any comments? haha wish me luck.

Don't forget the N2/EMP missiles hitting...

Any comments? haha wish me luck.
Just pointing out my question re a future war over your Kraven alliance, which would not be fought in Torontia. What do you think?

About what time are the first air attacks against SF taking place, in relation to my air armada? That is, how much longer until we get there? ;)

Well my "Kraven Alliance" is and was totally unknown to anybody and seeing as Kraven is no longer involved in this conflict...it no longer has any relevance.

I see Xirnium. Amestria and Yallak, what do you think of the SWC ICly?

The who??

By the way, when/if it becomes known that SF is involved in a secret alliance with Kraven, would anyone object to Xirnium bringing the war home to Saint Fedski. Xirnium is not interested in getting involved in a war in Torontia but would be far more concerned at the fact that a Adamantine Member allied with Kraven.

I had considered asking you to attack the SF homeland to force them to surrender here - but Amestria though we should avoid that. If you want to do it for that reason i have no objections but ultimately its up to SF - he has many problems already.

About what time are the first air attacks against SF taking place, in relation to my air armada? That is, how much longer until we get there? ;)

Well the first attacks have already begun. Your running out of places to land already.

About what time are the first air attacks against SF taking place, in relation to my air armada? That is, how much longer until we get there? ;)

The conflict is still in the hour your air armada left Czardas, so about 7 to 8 hours...

The Saharistan War Coalition.

The conflict is still in the hour your air armada left Czardas, so about 7 to 8 hours...
Ok, thanks. The wonders of fluid time... ;)

The Saharistan War Coalition.

To be honest i know little to nothing about them.

Ah. Then the Yallakians, Saint Fedskians and Amestrians might as well withdraw for OOC reasons: the only nations that know how to handle Saharistan - is well, the SWC, who defeated him in the Saharistan War. Torontia is one of his many puppets.

If Saharistan has a force - it can be crippled like any other. ICly the Empire see all others as foreigners that need be ignored - unless something can be gained from them or they incur our wrath and hence will rarely stand down without victory.

If you want to do it for that reason i have no objections but ultimately its up to SF - he has many problems already.
I planned to, with SF's consent of course, but since it apparently seems the Kraven is no longer part of this rp (when did that happen?) there is no longer any real way to uncover the SF-Kraven alliance, and thus no real IC justification for Xirnium in this war (unless, of course, the Infinite Empire actually requests Xirnium become involved, in which case everything would change).

Basically at the moment it seems to the High Ecclesiarchy to be some pointless conflict halfway across the world which Holy Xirnium doesn't really see the need to get involved in. I could see Xirnium getting involved in a campaign to sacrifice Torontia so that it doesn't fall to Tanakis though (a "sorched Earth" approach), but it seems you and Amestria are a little hesitant about that idea, so, for now at least, the moment the High Ecclesiarchy remains aloof and simply looks on.

I planned to, with SF's consent of course, but since it apparently seems the Kraven is no longer part of this rp (when did that happen?) there is no longer any real way to uncover the SF-Kraven alliance, and thus no real IC justification for Xirnium in this war (unless, of course, the Infinite Empire actually requests Xirnium become involved, in which case everything would change).

Basically at the moment it seems to be some pointless conflict halfway across the world which Holy Xirnium doesn't really see the need to get involved in. I could see Xirnium getting involved in a campaign to sacrifice Torontia so that it doesn't fall to Tanakis though (a "sorched Earth" approach), but it seems you and Amestria are a little hesitant about that idea, so for the moment the High Ecclesiarchy remains aloof simply looks on.

I have no idea when Kraven left - probly after his peeved off AMF.
If you want to go to war with SF by the Infinite Empires request (and SF doesn't mind) ill make a SIC post to request your participation but if thats alright.

As for the "Scorched Earth” approach I was all for it. I had plans (as seen in the RP by the preparation of an entire fighter-bomber wing with ‘special weapons’) to attack Seattle with 240 phosphorus bomb loaded aircraft. Amestria however was convinced that was not the best idea – so for now I wont do it. I would really like to though <insert evil laugh>.

No. I mean to say that Yallak doesn't even need to deal with Saharistan. The SWC has beaten the tar out of him so many times over, it's pretty damn laughable once you understand his history. The mods might as well perma IP ban him, as he is NEVER going to overcome the SWC or anyone else for that matter.

ok fair enough. I did notice that after Torontia openly declared war on Xirnium and then Stoddenia and got his butt kicked he went and made a new nations to try it all over again.
When did the SWC destoy him in the first place?

Do one of two things: TG any member of the SWC (Halberdgardia, Leafanistan, Space Union, Tannenmille, Willink*, Hailandkill and McKagan), or go to this article on the NSWiki, written by Halberdgardia (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Saharistan_War).

*Willink was ejected after backing one of Saharistan's puppets, Arabanistan, when his warships fired on Space-Unionist and Leafanistani destroyers. However, Willink still does maintain diplomatic and military relations to the SWC members, and is an ally of the SWC, not a member-state.

ok fair enough. I did notice that after Torontia openly declared war on Xirnium and then Stoddenia and got his butt kicked he went and made a new nations to try it all over again.
When did the SWC destoy him in the first place?

From some perspectives he is useful politically. For example, the Yallakian Navy's classic vanquishment of Torontia with the launch of a single missile salvo has perfectly illustrated the price of envoking the fury of the Infinite Empire, and remains a legend that you can invoke for political reasons again and again in the future. He's given you some great propaganda material. ;) Everyone likes to add victories to their collection.

Definately. That will be the ace up the sleeve the next hundred times (at least) that i have to threaten some other nation. Like AMF has FWS I can now go - think of Torontia (or Tanakis).