NationStates Jolt Archive

Of course, any self-respecting country in need of Armaments needs look no further than Roycelandia... we've got it all! Rifles, Machine Guns, Artillery, even Aircraft!

Buy now and you'll receive a free Bank Account in the Cape Verde Islands and a one-way flight on Imperial Airways from your Country to anywhere in Roycelandia when and if your Regime finally collapses or gets overthrown! ;-)

All right, finishing up the Americas, then we'll move on to Europe.

Sorry, China, I thought you were done with Peru. Of course it's up to you if you want to keep at it, though I think there's a general feeling that AMW's China has long needed more active representation such as you may give by focusing on it. I don't think it's really for me to say. I'll note Peru as possibly taken until hearing final word from you.

Argentina/Tord issue still unresolved, I'll put a note on that being up in the air, too, but it'd be nice to put that to bed if it's a no-go.

And Iansisle's territory amounts to Nicaragua, El Salvador, and the Honduran departments of Choluteca and Valle.

That more or less it for the Americas, as yet, or have I missed any new bids?

I'll go and start posting those things and preparing to bombard you all with questions about Europe :)

Well yea, I'm focussing on china. No more peru.

Oh, I don't want to be a bother

Trust me, you haven't been. It's good to get all this stuff sorted out properly. If you have any more concerns, please please please don't be afraid to let me know; I'd love to get them sorted out before I do something boneheaded. (which is actually a fairly common occurance. heh.)

To all those with offers of weapons: thank you very much, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Mannicagua is a great place if you want to give away free samples and have your weapons used by an actual Third World Military™, but I can assure you that we won't be paying for them =P. We have a very, very small budget and Aguarte is more concerned with internal development, following the disasters, the war in El Salvador, and the relocation of the capital, than he is with the military.

What I am looking for right now follows:

1) A industrialized, rich power with an interest either in the leftist/rightist struggle or the stability of the region to back Aguarte. Putin has been mentioned for the early stages, and Roycelandia has alluded to it as well. Obviously, this will be a covert operation and I won't be announcing it or anything, but Aguarte needs to know who his friends are =D.

2) Several industrialized countries (or rather their private citizens) to buy up banana plantations, cattle ranches, and copper mines. Privitization of utilities (such as power, water, rail, etc.) is also on the table, but be aware that the buyer will have to rebuild most of the infrastructure. Also, as Mannicagua is probably one of the poorest nations in AMW, as well as having thousands of people displaced or ruined by the earthquakes / hurricane / war, we can assume that labor is cheap and plentiful. Aguarte is also very pro-market; come, bring us your sweatshops!

3) A country to host el Presidente's secret bank account. I think the Cape Verde islands were mentioned?

4) A large textiles company (perhaps with their factories in Mannicagua?) to make a silly hat for el Presidente.

5) Someone interested in building a canal connecting Lake Nicaragua with the Pacific Ocean. This is one of el Presidente's pet projects, even if it will probably anger (whoever owns the Panama canal... Quinntonia?).

Anyone interested in one or more of these roles? =D If so, let me know here or TG me if you have something sneakier up your sleeve.

I can possibly help you out with number one.

Neo-Anarchos isn't a "rich" nation in the conventional sense(there are no economy or a "real good" economy depending on which anarchist you ask ;)), but has considerable commercial and industrial power as nearly no citizens are unemployed.

Anarchans are a highly political people with many engaged people who always vote on local issues and have an annoying tendency to criticize other, less socially developed, democracies. They are -very- interested in the left/right struggle, but would never support your average communist; Aguarte would have to genuinely care about his people for the Anarchans to be in favour of supporting him.

Of course, he could always lie about having progressive plans "once things are cleaned up a bit", and in that case Neo-Anarchos will initially have a lot to offer.

(say, have you ever played Tropico? One would think so, when reading your plans : )

The Roycelandian "Guns For Everyone" Programme can safely be said to have supplied rather a lot of guns to General Aguarte.

Similarly, he can expect backing from the Roycelandian Special Operations Command, led by Colonel Benjamin "Bender" Rodriguez.

Various Roycelandian Companies would LOVE to establish factories, plantations, and the like in Mannicagua... all of the benefits of Imperialism without the expense of actually running the country!

El Presidente is more than welcome to establish a Bank Account in the Cape Verde Islands, which are a well-known Tax Haven with Confidentiality Laws that make Switzerland look like a nation full of copper's narks.

The Digging The Mannicaguan Canal thing would also be up our alley, too... An excuse to wear Pith Helmets and get the Natives to dig holes whilst we all play cards and drink Bourbon! Huzzah! :-D

I can help you out with 1,2,4,5.

Number 1 depends on how much resources (iron, oil, etc) your nation has and which side (left or right) wants to be friends.

Number 2 - definitely, we were the sweatshop of the world until we started outsourcing operations and manufacturing.

Number 5 - Something to tip the balance of power our way...yes!

If you happen to have some nice sites for vineyards and possibly some facilities that could be turned over to producing pipeline material then Viller's Wine and Pump would be very interested in investing, particualrly if they can biuld a distillery...

Also Barrs would be more than happy to open a bottling plant for Irn-Bru in any location where the consumption of very sweet fizzy drinks is still in fashion...

I am a little surprised at how quickly people are jumping in and offering to dig a new canal of that size, have you never read at all what it was like to dig the Panam Canal? We are talking tens of billions of dollars of modern investment and years to complete the task, all the while killing with backbreaking labour thousands of natives.

And yes, Quinntonina does control the Panam canal. WE may want to talk to El Presidente and see if we can work out an alternative. Mainly because of teh startegic fact that we simply cannot allow such a acala to exist that close to us outside of our control. It could lead to some really bad international incidents. Not that it wouldn't be fun to RP that, I am just warning you that this would be the position of the USQ when they found out about it.

That being said, we would be willing to invest billions of USQD in your developing nation as you privatise these industries and so on. I would like to know, however, how tha Christians of your nation are treated, and the general state of religion. Your claim is nominally Catholic, I think, with a strong and growing Protestant and Evangelical movement in its infancy. Undoubtably, there are extensive Quinntonian missionary initiatives in you nation, so it would interest us to know how they are treated.

WWJD
Amen.

So, I was interested after reading the new thread and, since I'm sick of offsite RP with something else, have decided that to complement the craziness of NS I'd love to join AMW. With that said, I really want to RP something different.

So I'm willing to take Western Africa off your hands! In a manner of speaking. I'll do all the write-ups and stuff, but right now I need to verify: Are any of these claimed?

Liberia
Mauritania
Mali
Senegal
Guniea-Bissau
Gambia
Guinea
Sierra-Leone
Cote D'Ivoire
Ghana
Burkina Faso
Togo
Benin

I may not necessarily take all of them if I find that politics in RL would prevent an EU-type merger (in scale, not in carry through) but if it worked, I would love to RP with as much of West Africa as possible, so I can deal with starvation and civil unrest throughout many countries, not just one! That, and so I'm not tearing myself apart with loss of regional stability whenever I make a decision.

Should my claims be okay (since that is a lot of countries) and grounded in fact and merit, for me more than anyone else as I'm moving away from NS craziness and RL as much as posible, will this fly? And are these not claimed?

EDIT: The populations.
Liberia- 3,482,211
Mauritania- 3,086,859
Mali- 12,291,529
Senegal- 11,126,832
Guniea-Bissau- 1,416,027
Gambia- 1,593,256
Guinea- 9,467,866
Sierra-Leone- 6,017,643
Cote D'Ivoire- 17,298,040
Ghana- 21,029,853
Burkina Faso- 13,925,313
Togo- 5,681,519
Benin- 7,460,025

Total Population: 113,876,973

EDIT 2: RIght. Lots of things change if Niger or Nigeria aren't controlled by anyone. Are they? Also, if they're not, then are Chad, Cameroon, or Equatorial Guniea controlled? Sorry for all the questions.....assume I claim those last three (if not claimed) if either Niger or Nigeria are unclaimed. Then i also claim the unclaimed ones....Oy.

EDIT 3- On third thought, I'll claim any of those if they're unclaimed. I'll figure out updated populations with knowledge of what I can claim. And, through a quick search, theree is a basis for regional joining-together, so on that political front things look good for the formation of the West African Union. Thank god ECOWAS forged th way and the AU showed it could be done in Africa.

I claim Mexico, Belize and Manchuria

Vientnamexico, rings a bell, but from where? Who knows.

Okay back on topic, the Austrian would happily, (I mean happily) buy the rail systems and rebuild them way past the best ones in the Americas. Also I would conduct business with you on your nation topic but you probably do not have one.
IC:

To: General Aguarte
From: Maxen Von Bismarck, Chancellor of the Greater Prussian Political State of Austria

The Austrian government would happily buy out the railroads and establish the sir Aguarte's empire were the goods flow, in a literal sense, freely. We would immediately set about re-constructing new railroads and stations. We can also take on the banking of your empire and help it flourish. We only ask for the following items.

1.) A tiny piece of your land as ours to provide an easy base of operations for our workers.
2.) Visas, any are welcomed
3.) Diplomatic immunity to several of the top executives.

These things, I hope, are available for you to give but if not....

OOC: Were you in APW

Samtonia: We'll need RP samples, and sorry, but Nigeria is already taken. (it's a russian protectorate)

Vietnamexico: We need RP samples, a population list, and a nation description. And Manchuria is part of China, and thus, taken.

No I was in E20 till recently and now in AMW and Weimar. For the most part Vientnamexico you could have handed a rejection letter to yourself. First and for most, Manchuria is China, very poor to ask for it with a member named AMW China. Also just spouting off doesn't go to well, get some POP lists off of CIA Factbook, then get a goverment going and an description. So yeah....

Of course, he could always lie about having progressive plans "once things are cleaned up a bit", and in that case Neo-Anarchos will initially have a lot to offer.

(say, have you ever played Tropico? One would think so, when reading your plans : )

Well, I'm afraid that not many leftists will be able to support Aguarte's regime very soon. He talks a lot about improving society, but he means lining the pockets of the rich and selling the state's infrastructure to foreign capitalists. =)

As for Tropico, no I've never played it. =( I've wanted to, but I don't believe they ever came out with a Mac version (I'd love to be proven wrong on that account, though. hehe). Most of my ideas come from this great history of post-colonial Mexico class I took a year or two back.

Roycelandia The Roycelandian "Guns For Everyone" Programme can safely be said to have supplied rather a lot of guns to General Aguarte.

Similarly, he can expect backing from the Roycelandian Special Operations Command, led by Colonel Benjamin "Bender" Rodriguez.

Various Roycelandian Companies would LOVE to establish factories, plantations, and the like in Mannicagua... all of the benefits of Imperialism without the expense of actually running the country!

El Presidente is more than welcome to establish a Bank Account in the Cape Verde Islands, which are a well-known Tax Haven with Confidentiality Laws that make Switzerland look like a nation full of copper's narks.

The Digging The Mannicaguan Canal thing would also be up our alley, too... An excuse to wear Pith Helmets and get the Natives to dig holes whilst we all play cards and drink Bourbon! Huzzah! :-D

Very good on the factories / plantations thing. Feel free to invent a Roycelandian conglomerate that owns land if you need it for roleplay, and I'll work under the assumption that Roiks are buying up land.

For Cape Verde, you may assume the account has already been formed =P (and probably receiving its first deposits)

For the canal, so far you have the image that makes me chuckle the most (which puts it as my OOC favorite), but I'd like to perhaps hold a conference in Granada to hear bids. It would make a good first RP, mayhaps.

I can help you out with 1,2,4,5.

Number 1 depends on how much resources (iron, oil, etc) your nation has and which side (left or right) wants to be friends.

Number 2 - definitely, we were the sweatshop of the world until we started outsourcing operations and manufacturing.

Number 5 - Something to tip the balance of power our way...yes!

1) Well, natural resources are extremely poor. There is some copper in the north of the country, but not much. Mostly, we have cash crops (such as bananas, coffe, tobacco -- that sort of thing)).

2) We welcome all comers! We need more industry (the workers be damned....)

5) You're more than welcome to attend the conference I'm thinking about holding for the canal. Remember, the more amusing (but realistic!) I find your proposal, the better its chance ;-).

And didn't you say you could help with number four!? El Presidente needs a silly hat, darn it! =P

If you happen to have some nice sites for vineyards and possibly some facilities that could be turned over to producing pipeline material then Viller's Wine and Pump would be very interested in investing, particualrly if they can biuld a distillery...

Also Barrs would be more than happy to open a bottling plant for Irn-Bru in any location where the consumption of very sweet fizzy drinks is still in fashion...

I must admit that I have no idea how well grapes would fare in a tropical central american environment. I'll do some research down that ally and tell you what I come up with =).

For the bottling plant, I'd love that. Most sweatshops, by the way, would probably find better success in El Salvador than Mannicagua simply because the population is far more urban and dense.

I am a little surprised at how quickly people are jumping in and offering to dig a new canal of that size, have you never read at all what it was like to dig the Panam Canal? We are talking tens of billions of dollars of modern investment and years to complete the task, all the while killing with backbreaking labour thousands of natives.

And yes, Quinntonina does control the Panam canal. WE may want to talk to El Presidente and see if we can work out an alternative. Mainly because of teh startegic fact that we simply cannot allow such a acala to exist that close to us outside of our control. It could lead to some really bad international incidents. Not that it wouldn't be fun to RP that, I am just warning you that this would be the position of the USQ when they found out about it.

You don't think that technology has advanced since 1914? Dozens of major canals have been opened since then, some much more impressive from an engineering angle than Panama. Also, the primary problem with the early (and most deadly) stages of digging of the Panama Canal was malaria and other tropical diseases, which are less of a concern now to an industrial power.

Also, the size and nature of international shipping has changed greatly since the Panama canal opened. For instance, the Panama canal can handle ships of ~65,000 tons (one of the reasons the Montanas were canceled, interestingly). A real life modern proposal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_Canal) for a canal through Nicaragua offers to ship vessels with displacements up to 250,000 tons. Also, being that Mannicagua is farther north than Panama, a canal through it would significantly reduce the time and expense for shipping to North American powers. (the distance from New York to San Francisco would be cut by 500 miles)

I should also note that Quinntonia would be more than willing to make a proposal to develop the canal themselves, should they worry about the strategic implications. =)

That being said, we would be willing to invest billions of USQD in your developing nation as you privatise these industries and so on. I would like to know, however, how tha Christians of your nation are treated, and the general state of religion. Your claim is nominally Catholic, I think, with a strong and growing Protestant and Evangelical movement in its infancy. Undoubtably, there are extensive Quinntonian missionary initiatives in you nation, so it would interest us to know how they are treated.

WWJD
Amen.

Well, Mannicagua being a strongly Catholic nation, I'd say that our Christians are generally treated pretty well. =P Religious tolerance is the order of the day, simply because Aguarte is not what one would call a devout man of any persuasian. He was raised Catholic in a Mestizo family living in a small village on the Mosquito coast, but had many English-speaking Anglican friends growing up. I doubt there would be any official objection to missionaries, but traditionalist elements in the rural areas might object. (non-violently, mind you)

(boy, this post is getting long!)

Okay back on topic, the Austrian would happily, (I mean happily) buy the rail systems and rebuild them way past the best ones in the Americas. Also I would conduct business with you on your nation topic but you probably do not have one.

Actually, I do =P ¡Viva Mannicagua! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=455717)

It would probably be a good idea to move all the rambling that's presently going on here over there. ;-) Sorry, I just have a tendency to plug up a thread with a lot of chatter.

As for the rail system, I doubt that Aguarte would have any objections. I'll type up an IC reply on ¡Viva Mannicagua!

----

PSHEW. Glad that's all over with. I think I replied to everyone that needed it, and with that I'll vacate this thread ;-). Discussion is still welcome to continue at ¡Viva Mannicagua! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=455717) -- as BG and LRR probably know, OOC rambling is not only allowed but actively encouraged on all my threads, but I don't want to clog up your recruitment post.

Peace, Ian

((PS -- if I somehow missed you, bonk me over the head in the other thread. Gracias!

Heh, Moorington, no point trying to RP in this thread, seriously. It'll all just get lost and buried in minutes!

As to other new claimants... hm, well, excuse us if things take ages, we're re-working the new recruitment thread at the moment and a lot of claims are somewhat up in the air.

Most of West Africa is indeed free, and you don't *have* to pay attention to what would and wouldn't work in real-life, because you can just make it a totally different place, if you do it well and have sufficient background built in. In AMW, much of East Africa was occupied by Roycelandia, and I think a great deal of it is white, now. Further south the Lusakans are a recognised people, building their own native African union. You can make your own West African people if you want, if you bear in mind that a lot of European (and Roycelandian) powers have probably tried to screw them over in the past, so there are likely to still be some problems.

Erm, other than that, well, yes, Manchuria's claimed, Belize is, too. Mexico I think is free.

Mh, sorry, I'll be back in a bit.

Right, er, well, I think we've more or less got the Americas, now, in the new thread.

Yay!

I've started lising everything twice. In alphabetical order, once by NS-account name, and once by RL-territory name, so that any newcomers can scan down the list to see if a country is claimed without having to search through all of our account claims to see if Burkina is listed in the Roycelandian Empire or the United African Republic.

Erm, I suppose I'll move on to Europe, then? Throw some helpful Europe-info at me, people!

I claim Mexico, Belize and Manchuria

...So you want to rule three different countries separated by thousands of miles of ocean?

...So you want to rule three different countries separated by thousands of miles of ocean?

Belize is right next to Mexico. However, aye, Manchuria is something completely different. Unless he meant Nicaragua?

Well, it matters not. Belize and Manchuria are taken.

Right, er, well, I think we've more or less got the Americas, now, in the new thread.

Yay!

I've started lising everything twice. In alphabetical order, once by NS-account name, and once by RL-territory name, so that any newcomers can scan down the list to see if a country is claimed without having to search through all of our account claims to see if Burkina is listed in the Roycelandian Empire or the United African Republic.

Erm, I suppose I'll move on to Europe, then? Throw some helpful Europe-info at me, people!

With Elkazor and Macabees departed, France and Spain are now open, but have significant histories behind them.

Portugal is also free. There have been several stabs at Germany but none of them have ever amounted to anything, and the same with the Low Countries.

Scandanavia is, I believe claimed, as is Switzerland, Austria, and Luxembourg. Lav will have to clarify to us exactly what area of the Balkans Adirov's new state covers, but I think its the former Yugoslavia.

Everything besides the Baltic Republics, the UK, Russia, and those other places I mentioned is open...so...er...yeah.

*needs sleep*

Yeah I am Austria and Eiau Island, well at the very least I think that deal wa concluded. Right (Roycelandia) A name that can neither be confirmed nor denied.

(Aah! Long-winded post on the future of Europe!)

Hey, since we're moving on to the European section, I suppose this would be the time to talk about my indecision over my new claim, which is still in its formative stages.

Of course I started out as Lavrageria (people being the Glakatahn), which covered Belarus and made it a very much fractured society with a Russian-influenced Republic forming in the east while attempting -without full success- to settle the still nomadic clans elsewhere, still wandering about in the forsts, swamps, and flats of the nation. When I established the nation I had visions of a massive Asiatic empire of Slavic horsemen weilding hunting rifles and surface-to-air missiles, storming about NationStates ruining people's days. But settling into little Belarus squashed the Glakatahn and forced them into conflict they couldn't win with so little space to retreat into. That's fair enough, but of course it also drew the Republic into a fight it couldn't win, and while I'm okay with playing the underdog and even perhaps eventually controlling an occupied government, if that makes sense, it's not going to be a sufficiently influential occupied government for me to have very much contact with RPers besides the Estenlands (not that I mind RPing with him, I'd just rather not be shut off from everything else :) ) hence the new claim.

Sorry! I just had to get that out because I don't want people, especially the newcomers who only see things from the point at which I grab a new claim even though I've already got one, to feel that I wasn't committed or was a sore loser or something. Now it looks like it was just a cheap claim that ended up giving the Tsar a bigger chunk of AMW, but I think it's good to have a successful conqueror in AMW... nobody would be scared of Wingert if he never picked and won any fights, so I suppose somebody had to take the fall, hey?

Phew, I think I feel better!

Ah, now, I'm still running about 30% of Belarus, and will continue to describe its descent down the toilet in periodic updates, but my main focus now is on the escaped president's new project: Yugoslavia.
Obviously this is going to owe a lot to the real (former) nation, to which I've always been oddly drawn.

But I'm not sure where to stop.

Obviously, at 23.4million people, Yugoslavia thus far is eight or nine times smaller than the Tsar's domain, and fifty times smaller than the largest AMW nation, at a guess, but is twice the size of old Lavrageria (man, those guys just didn't have a chance, hey?). It is surrounded by other NPC states, most of which are also reasonably small.

Now, Aidarov has, being Aidarov, a lot of big crazy plans. First was Vojvodina (Part 1a), then the rest of Serbia (1b), and eventually all of what (historically following the annexation of Trieste and...) now constitutes Yugoslavia (1c).

I could stop there, but Aidarov's plan goes on to a Part 2: Albania (2a), Bulgaria (2b), and Hungary (2c), and he's trying to convince them to join a greater Balkan union, somewhat like the real-life proposal that didn't quite go through, only more extensive. I have supposed that Glakatahn constitute significant minorities in those nations, too (especially in Bulgaria and parts of Hungary), and that these minorities have been generally (but not wholly) supportive of Aidarov's ambitions, along with greatly mixed responses from the rest of the populations. Unlike in the consumed states, the national governments in these nations I have considered strong enough to rebuff Aidarov's advances and the meddling of his agents and supporters, or else supposed that the populations simply aren't as impressed by the atheist Slav and his talk of unity and threats from Russia/Austria(/to a lesser degree from Turkey), and the unofficial referenda have been either broken-up or defeated thus far.

But Aidarov isn't giving up, and Vojvodina, where he started out, is doing very well. If he gets sufficient international support, aid, and trade, the rest of Yugoslavia will follow to some degree, and I have not abandoned the idea of incorporating some or all of those three orther nations into the federation.

Aidarov's further stages, half-formed in his ambitions, call for the incorporation of Slovakia and the Czech Republic (possibly in defence against Austria), then Poland, and possibly even Romania (though a close alliance is considered a more realistic prospect there), before the final move to liberate and reunify Lavrageria.

Even with all of that -including Romania and successful liberation of Lavrageria- the total population would be less than that of Russia alone (just). But it would cover an awful lot of naitons.

Now, erm, I don't have any intention of joining all those lands like I have the first few. Stage 2 is furthest I've seriously considered going in the set-up phase, if that makes sense. I mean, I've thought about applying to have part of all of it included as my initial claim, you know?

I would expect Phase 3 to result in war with Austria or something, but I might try it in more open RP anyway, that remains to be seen.

But I can't decide what to do!

Should I just have Aidarov's amibtions comprehensively snubbed by all of the Albanians, Bulgarians, and Hungarians, thus stopping him in his tracks? He'll probably turn his life to spreading ideas of multi-national neutrality and making a mockery of them by aggressively supporting the Baltic governments in exile if that happens, and die a bitter man.
Should he succed in any of those nations?
Should he just get close, and make a conflict out of it in one or more of them?

Damn decisions!

I call Iceland (if not Iceland how about Afghanistan!)

Yeah I am Austria and Eiau Island, well at the very least I think that deal wa concluded. Right (Roycelandia) A name that can neither be confirmed nor denied.

No, Moorington, we did NOT conclude that deal. The deal is off, it is no longer on the table. We're keeping the Island... we've got our own plans for it now, anyway.

No, Moorington, we did NOT conclude that deal. The deal is off, it is no longer on the table. We're keeping the Island... we've got our own plans for it now, anyway.

Okay be an ass, I don't care. :p

Anyhow.... I am okay for Yougoslavia except when it tries to annex Hungry. Then, I don't know, maybe something, like excesive force.

Right. Here goes with the actual write-up and all.....

Introduction: West African Union
Background:
With their independence gained from the rapidly splintering empires of former European colonists, the countries of West Africa embraced their freedoms at differing times and in differing ways. Some nations chose democratic rule, while others were seized by dictators, ruled by oligarchies, or devolved into bitter civil war. Military juntas and coups were commonplace and massive insurrections flared across massive areas of the continent of Africa.

With environmental concerns, civil unrest, and famine threatening millions, the leaders of 15 nations met and founded the Economic Community of West African States on May 28th, 1975. Its goal was simple: achieve economic self sufficiency for West Africa. The means were varied, but as the group bogged down in its progress, only a few of its goals were ever recognized, most important being the formation of a large economic bloc of West African nations under one currency. Though the group’s efforts towards an economic self-sufficient entity were unsuccessful, the creation of a standardized currency led directly to one of the largest mergers of independent states in history.

Through a process of agreements carried out since 1984 and with an official agreement in February 1994, the formation of the West African Union was agreed upon and its creation was began. On October 29th, 2004, the heads of state of 17 wEst African nations signed the Treaty Establishing a Constitution for West Africa, officially begetting the West African Union. With the establishment of its headquarters in Accra, Ghana and the ratification of its Constitution on May. 28th, 2005, the Union became an international entity.

A free trade area was established over much of the area of the WAU, with barriers to trade removed by member nations. The implementation of the Auro as the WAU’s currency, completed in Spring 2003, also led to improved trade abilities within the WAU. As member nations continue to send representatives to the West African Parliament chosen in any manner their country decides, one of the stated goals of the WAU is not democratization. However, in order to improve stability in the region, a number of politicians have been ordered to be ousted from office, including Faure Gnassingbe of Togo and Robert Guei of Coite d’Ivoire.

With strong popular support and the implementation of every one of its decisions by member nations, the WAU appears to offer the largest hope for West African stability ever seen in the region.

Geography: West African Union
Location:
West Africa, bordering the Atlantic Ocean and the Sahara Desert, encompassing the nations of: Liberia, Mauritania, Mali, Senegal, Guniea-Bissau, Gambia, Guinea, Sierra-Leone, Cote D'Ivoire, Ghana, Burkina Faso, Togo, Benin, Niger, Chad, Cameroon, Equatorial Guinea.

Area:
Total Area: 7,003,293 sq km

Area Comparitive:
Slightly smaller than China.

Climate:
Diverse; varies from tropical in south and west to desert in north and east.

Terrain:
Diverse; varies from coastal lowlands in Togo/Benin to jungle in Cameroon to desert in north-east.

Other Stuff:
Liberia- 3,482,211
Mauritania- 3,086,859
Mali- 12,291,529
Senegal- 11,126,832
Guniea-Bissau- 1,416,027
Gambia- 1,593,256
Guinea- 9,467,866
Sierra-Leone- 6,017,643
Cote D'Ivoire- 17,298,040
Ghana- 21,029,853
Burkina Faso- 13,925,313
Togo- 5,681,519
Benin- 7,460,025
Niger- 11,665,937
Chad- 9,826,419
Cameroon- 16,380,005
Equatorial Guinea- 535,881

Total Population- 152,285,215




Examples of Past RPing
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=415635
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=437229
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9153961&postcount=9
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=385331

More available upon request.

Okay be an ass, I don't care. :p

Anyhow.... I am okay for Yougoslavia except when it tries to annex Hungry. Then, I don't know, maybe something, like excesive force.

Hey, watch it with the name calling... you're the one with the reading comprehension difficulties, last I checked.

Royce, cool it, you can tell by the smiley he was saying it in a tongue-in-cheek manner.

Samtonia, everything seems good, but I'll admit I'm not exactly an expert on Africa's state of politics. Royce, does that encroach on any of your territorial posessions?

Well, Moorington ought to me more considerate. He's been in AMW for all of, what, a week or two? Let's not have that kind of language, eh?


Samtonia, well, it looks fairly good to me. Roycelandia doesn't actually have any colonies in West Africa (surprising, since the place can hardly defend itself), so the claim doesn't step on anyone's toes.

I personally am a bit apprehensive about the whole region being RPed by one nation, since it accounts for a significant amount of Africa's land mass, but otherwise its quite fine.

Ian, well, if humor is what you're looking for I must admit I've been a bit lacking ever since being severely reprimanded for attempting to defeat the renegade Valinor prince Dozle with The Who, so since then I've been rather dry. :(

If newcomers ever request portions of West Africa and do it in a way that is both civil and shows that they will show a commitment to RP, I will give up chunks of West Africa. However, right now no one seems to want to RP poverty, AIDS, and desertification, so I guess I get those fun areas! This way, Africa gets more represented.

Or somesuch like that. Damned Nigeria is blicking highway infrastructure...... invasion # 1, after I can afford armed forces! Yay!

Woah, woah. None of that, now.

*Points to Hindustan being AIDS-ridden, crime-ridden, poor, and generally a mean place*

;)

Well, good show not being lured to Europe by stability and prosperity!

*Gives Samtonia a sticker*

No problem, then. You have me's approval. Who knows, perhaps Hindustan will show up and give you money and advisors.

Bah, prosperity's overrated. So are armed forcfes! After all, we West Africans showed those Europeans when they came, with their professional militaries and all.....

What? I'm not crazy!

Now, to devise a scheme to stop AIDS from spreading even more.....perhaps take after the NS issue and just toss people into towns to die, with fancy patches......probably what Hindustan does, from what you've said of it.

Well, the Hindustani health service is one of the few government departments that isn't under-funded, and as Lusaka and Strathdonia will attest, I (Hindustan) am quite generous with foreign aid. Perhaps a little too generous, though.

And Lavrageria;

It sounds quite good. Plenty of RP opportunities, anyhow. Beyond that, I don't have anything useful to add.

Well, I don't know who's CHina now, but I would like to control the Dongbei region. (Manchuria)


Btw, I'm Xiaguo. I've moved on from the left, to the right.



The government will be moved to Beijing, if possible, and a Constitutional Monarchy will be the primary.

If not, I would very much like to control Vietnam, and the SOuthern Provinces of China.

Lots going on, eh?

I'm more or less okay with people making big claims if we perhaps make a note next to their claim to the effect that there's a potential for internal nationalist unrest, and if anyone really wants a small part of their 'empires' so to speak and makes a good claim, something can be worked-out. That is in respect of Yugo Slavia and Samtonia's claims.

Maybe we'll have to talk about what some of it means for local economies and for the economies of other states, especially as China developes fast.

There's so much going on! I need a drink [wanders off]

I've always thought the reason for Roycelandia's lack of presence in West Africa was that it was French West Africa for most of the period Roycelandia was colonising East Africa, and after the French decolonised the area, we had the African Commonwealth between us and OMG TOTAL CONTINENTAL DOMINATION!!one!1!shift+one! :-P

Seriously though, we managed to colonise the Cape Verde Islands, got distracted in a few minor wars with someone, didn't really consolidate our claims on West Africa, and one day the Natives were all eating croissants and wearing berets, at which point we figured we'd better stick to what we knew and went back to colonising East Africa, with the Pith Helmets and the Big Game Hunting, mwey-hey, and the Diamonds and the Coffee, and the centuries of Imperialism, glaven! ;-)

Of course, when the French left, the African Commonwealth were situated between us and West Africa, which would have involved getting into a war with them to get the troops to West Africa, and it was decided it probably wasn't worth it...

Well, I don't know who's CHina now, but I would like to control the Dongbei region. (Manchuria)


Btw, I'm Xiaguo. I've moved on from the left, to the right.



The government will be moved to Beijing, if possible, and a Constitutional Monarchy will be the primary.

If not, I would very much like to control Vietnam, and the SOuthern Provinces of China.

Um, I may be biased, but I think that AMW China is speaking for China now, and I am pretty happy with how that has turned out. Perhaps you could apply your obvious RPing skills elswhere, have you given any thought to something completely different? Like Germany? Or are you in an Asian only kind of place?

Not trying to place restrictions, just trying to add suggestions.

Tsar Wingert the Great.

Yeah, sorry Xiaguo, but you just randomly vanished with no explanation whatseover and left us in a bit of a bind. _Taiwan took over as AMW China, and it'd be unfair to give China straight back to you. So you'll have to consider something else.

Sorry Xiaguo, I don't think the previous "power-sharing" arranging where each player RPed certain aspects of the government was working well either.

Perhaps you could play post-Bonstock Singapore? There's a lot of room in SE Asia.

A post for the West African Union, merits attention from all in AMW. I think.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=456505

Hm, so, is there any agreement or disagreement on the extent of Samtonia's claim? If he's looking to get things started, we need to confirm it now or hear any objections before it's too late.

Hm, so, is there any agreement or disagreement on the extent of Samtonia's claim? If he's looking to get things started, we need to confirm it now or hear any objections before it's too late.

Approved from me.

Ditto.

No, I want to be a thorn to China this time. I've become quite a Conservative. If I get the Chance, i would become a United States, and establish falun Gong as the state religion. :)

The problem is, I have some history/cultural background on Korea, Japan, China.

And all of them are taken. I don't feel like being a vassal of China's.


IF GERMANY IS AVAILABLE, I'LL TAKE IT. I'll see if I cna do anything. I can always have my nazi friends to help me out here.

OOC: Finally! You see the light! I hope your not part of the Youth Communist League anymore.

I would support your application for Germany.

I will also support you claim for Germany, pending some ideas as to what you want to do with it. (Perhaps teh resurgence of Kaiser Wilhelm III?)
Tsar Wingert the Great.

DEUTSCHLAND KONIGREICH

Kingdom of Germany


Germany was powerful, both economy, and technology outpaced many countries of the world. However, times have changed, and Germany became a peaceful, and pasive nation in Europe. The government is failing, and corruption was rampant in the local governments. A population full of nationalism, cannot work the wheels of the nation, when the reigns of government is on hold.

Chancellor Kurt von Schleicher appoints Wilhelm Heiden as Chancellor, shortly before his resignation a week later.

Wilhelm Heiden has pledged the rising of germany, and the new Republic.

EUROPE!

Erm.

The Estenlands has control of southern and western Belarus, the Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Russia (and Kazakhstan, which I will include once we get to Asia)? I think something like 204.5 million people (plus just over 15m in Kazakhstan), having not bothered to add on the loose thousands since I expect they're dead or run-away.

Yugo Slavia/Lavrageria has control of the rest of Belarus (for now), Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia and Montenegro, and Macedonia? 26.6 million people including those isolated in Belarus. Plus some potential baggage thrust on to Albania, Bulgaria, and Hungary through the Yugoslavs' influence.

Moorington has Austria (nearly 8.2 million people).

I think those are more or less settled at that extent, though the final scale of Yugo Slavia's claim is up in the air re. those nations with 'baggage'

Now, the other issues!

*The UK/TBF: still active?

*France/Elkazor/Nova Gaul: what's happening here?

*Spain/Macabees: yeah, same!

*Germany/Xiaguo/Deutschland Konigreich: any arguments against this being confirmed?

*Switzerland & Lichtienstein/Abream: drowned-out a bit by the clamour of the crowd, still interested? If so, now's the time to say, since we're finally settling Europe; if you don't chip-in now your claim will get buried and forgotten!

*Denmark-Finland-Sweden-Norway-Baltic govs in exile/Pennterra: looked like a fairly orderly claim, but again somewhat drowned-out by the rapid progress of things; still interested?

*Anything else?

I think the West African Union seems well thought out - although the territorial claim is much too large for comfort, he seems like a sensible fellow; particularly if he is willing to give up some of the nations that make him up - that will also make for great "African unrest" scenarios when we become larger in number! I will sponsor his membership, as well.

I'll also approve the West African Union's membership, as long as he actually replies to that thread he started by Monday...

EUROPE!
*The UK/TBF: still active?

*France/Elkazor/Nova Gaul: what's happening here?

*Spain/Macabees: yeah, same!

*Germany/Xiaguo/Deutschland Konigreich: any arguments against this being confirmed?

*Switzerland & Lichtienstein/Abream: drowned-out a bit by the clamour of the crowd, still interested? If so, now's the time to say, since we're finally settling Europe; if you don't chip-in now your claim will get buried and forgotten!

*Denmark-Finland-Sweden-Norway-Baltic govs in exile/Pennterra: looked like a fairly orderly claim, but again somewhat drowned-out by the rapid progress of things; still interested?

*Anything else?

Pennterra : Vote in support
Mac : Vote in support
Elkzaor : Vote in support
Samtonia : Vote in support
Xiaguo : Vote in support
Abream : Havn't seen much of you lately, can you pop back in to show your're still interested?

(Just a note on a potential conference (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=456027) should there prove to be enough non-aligned or neutral nations in AMW.)

Sorry for the delay- still here.:)

Here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=456087)is my world factbook entry for New Switzerland.

Official Name: The Holy Republic of Germany
Short Name: Germany
Native/Local Name: Deutschland Konigreich

Currency: The Deutsch Pfennig
Abbr.: DPF

Chancellor: Wilhelm Heiden
Vice Chancellor: Angela Merkel
Minister of Defence: Mr. Franz Josef Jung
Minister of State: Ms. Brigitte Zypries
Parliament Majority Leader: Mr. Thomas de Maizière
Major General: Mr. Wolfgang Tiefensee

Political Parties:
The German National People's Party
Right-wing National Conservative Party that favored a Monarchy based goverment platform. Nationalistic Party favoring a Constitutional Monarchy.

The Free Democratic Party
A free-market liberal (libertarian) party in Germany. Leading Civil Rights Party in Germany.

The Communist Party of Germany
Left-wing party that favors a communist based platform of government, and economy. Leading Leftist (Communist) Party in Germany.

Social Democratic Party of Germany
Advocates neoliberalism and opposes monarchy. Leading Liberal Party in Germany.

Christian Federalist Union
Supports centralizing the government. The Leading Conservative Party in Germany.



Government:
There is currently a political revolt in Germany. Polls show that the current government administration has hit the lowest at a mere 38.2% largely due to economic instability, with 6% of the nation unemployed.

A National Election just took place, Vote of No Confidence directed at Chancellor, which quickly led to a nomination of Minister of the State, Wilhelm Heidan, and with a majortiy of the parliament, and the German populous of more than 67.8% of votes, he was ignaugurated within days following the parliament's decision to impose a State of Emergency.


Parliament:
422 Seats



Christian Federalist Union has taken a majority in seats in the parliament. (162 seats)

The Communist Party of Germany (102 seats)

The German National People's Party (106 seats)

Other (52 seats)




Some problems include:
Major Economic Unions and Alliances in Europe leaving Germany Out.
A Weak Government.
Corruption in local governments.
High Minimum wage.
Failed Foreign Policy
Lack of Civil Rights
Power Vacuum in the Parliament.
Districting Problems.
Military behind recruitment expectations.


Population of Germany:
82,443,000

Just curious, I thought I posted this along the way but if not....

An easy idea to have a communist regime and most of Prussia (all of it except for th Danzig Corridor). Say in the last days of WWII a disgruntled minister (pick anyone) overthrows the Third Reich and puts in a communists rep. Which of course keeps ties with Russia and Russia (Soviet Unioun) lets the new germany keep Prussia. So then the Cold War goes on (if there was one) excluding West Germany as a NATO signer. When the Soviet Unioun falls apart New Germany overthrows the communist goverment (if you want it to be) and life goes on. Sound good?

???:confused: ???

So, you want me to somehow have Prussia?

Yes.

Is Prussia RPed?

Erm, I thought Prussia was part of Germany...Excuse my lack of geographic knowledge...

Sorry, after WWII the leftovers from WWI (Since Prussia was only good because of defensable border and the main port of Danzig, which were both taken away by allowing Poland a swath in Prussia into Danzig nd the port of.) were taken away to and again given to to Poland (Which could have avoided the whole conflict by giving back the corridor). So the questions are both a no. My scenerio you can see is somehwat belivable if Soviet Unioun felling kind takes not so harsh measures and leaves East Prussia with Germany, now about Danzig and the Danzig Corridor, could be easily given as long as there is no Poland player and ou have the right of way given by the russian player.

Well...Unless Xiaguo/Germany wants Prussia, I fail to see why this is necessary.

Was there a Soviet Union in the history of AMW? And if there was, what was the status of East Germany? If there was an East Germany it would be literally impossible for Germany to regain Prussia.

There was a Soviet Union. Moorington has some scheme to make West Germany communist as well, but although I realize he likes Prussia, it seems pointless and would mix up a lot of history. (Then again the loss of Germanyfor the NATO bloc might balance out the USSR's having to fight Wingert)

The USSR did most definitely exist, although it collapsed earlier because it faced not one, but two superpowers (USQ and the Roiks) and had to deal with Wingert's Ukrainian revolt.

It seems very iffy; I don't believe NATO would have allowed West Germany to become Communist, and I don't think West Germany wanted to become Communist; in fact, the change of German demographics during that time seems to indicate that most preferred to live as far away from Communism as possible, especially with the defeat in the Second World War and the bad treatment from the Soviet Soviet from 1944 to the end of the war, and then thereafter. Really, a communist West Germany seems to far off for me.

Yeah, it's rather pointless.

Indeed, though it doesn't hurt that people are thinking, at least :)

Again, I don't think that there's a great need to balance things out to keep the USSR alive longer. NATO only came into being in modern times, and before that the west was a bit less cohesive. The UK wasn't even on good terms with most of the other western powers during the late days of the USSR. Japan went through great troubles for so long, half of India was closely allied to the USSR from 1982 and aggressive about showing it, Roycelandia was evidently the main thorn in Moscow's side, but in the late seventies and early eighties it was actually losing a colonial war against USSR-backed rebels in Africa, who then no doubt shipped tonnes of copper and such to the Russians.

The irony is that Roycelandia finally managed to topple the Soviets, only to find ourselves fighting Marxist, Leninist, Trotskyite, and Maoist Guerrillas all throughout Africa and South-East Asia...

Yeah, it's rather pointless.

Yeah, I guess when the person who brings it up and really thinks about it, finds no point either... Anyhow just some confused incoherent ramblings of me again.

Historical issues are covered in (somewhat) great detail on the AMW Invision board, you can find it here:

http://s9.invisionfree.com/NS_Modern_World/index.php?act=idx

Found in the NS AMW RP OOC subforum.

Hey, so, would anyone object if I incorporated Bulgaria into Aidarov's initial state?

At the moment I'm thinking that the introductory period, which has already seen the formation of Yugoslavia in AMW and Aidarov's far fetched attempts pretty much everywhere between Belarus and the Greek/Ottoman borders, will end with Bulgaria being incorporated with a slightly greater degree of autonomy than is the case in, for example, Croatia and Macedonia, and with Albania becoming the main focus of Aidarov's ambition in the near future.

That would leave Yugoslavia, a state of something like 31 million people, with a large Bulgarian component that could eventually break away if we get more players interested in the region. It would also leave me with the scope for Lav to continue his claims on Albania (partly to do with an Albanian population probably around two million strong) and more significantly for Albanian insurrections to cause trouble/give Lav an excuse :)

Aidarov's attempts to convince the Hungarians to join the Slavs and look away from the Germans and Austrians will be roundly defeated, as will his approaches to the Romanians.

Just in the interim, while we have no regular players for so many eastern European states, I'd also like to see what people think about likely Yugoslavian relations to other states. I think I've established that Aidarov has some friends in Poland as in many other nations, but that doesn't mean that the Polish state or others will now be keen to present Yugoslavia as a friend. Partly I want to have Yugoslavia using military systems from the Czech Republic and Romania to fill gaps in the rosta once I compile the lists of native systems, and also it is likely that Lav will want to talk about other states in his counter-HL propaganda, and will try to present himself as a hero amongst and friend to eastern European nations.

I'll be able to shut up about it, after this, so throw any thoughts at me now!

Well, The collapse of USSR fugures big into my history as Estenlands, as they are RPed to have been forced out in the late seventies, which saw Ukraine going through a very Dra-pol like isolationsist phase.
So, though the USSR arguably would have been far more dominent in AMW history, since NATO did not come into being until the late 90's, it did have to deal with Roycelandia and also USQ, who objected to Communism due to their massive slughterings of Christians and aethiestic nature, so actively sought their downfall, cooperating with the Rioks ona large scale, and prusuing their own operations as well.

With that going on, and a massive popular revolt in Ukraine taht would have taken nearly a thid of their industrial capacity and military strength with it, USSR probably fell somewhere around 80-85.

PS-Estenlands RPed its closest ally at the beginning and all the way through as Poland, so we have a very close relationship with them, just FYI.

Tsar Wingert the Great.

Well, no offence, but no, the USSR didn't fall then. BG has been around for longer than the Estenlands, and requires that the USSR help the revolution to happen a full two years after the first date given, and there after to co-operate with it for a number of years. In fact it's supposed to be that the Commonwealth started to move away from the USSR in '88 at the earliest, which is already a stretch, before Sopworth was encouraged to step-down. This bit I will just have to sacrifice or blur somewhat in the cause of an early decline in the USSR, but there's no way it can fall before the mid to late '80s without the majority of AMW being re-written, starting with BG and spreading out from there.

Besides, there's no absolute reason why rebellion in the Ukraine and opposition from two major states would bring about internal collapse in the rest of the USSR. That's a bit like saying that America's involvement in Afghanistan is what felled the USSR in real life (a popular point of view in the US, I know, but fantasy propaganda on a par with the best of religions and the free market). Perhaps it fell harder when it did eventually go down, with Ukrainian bullets flying and Roycelandian movies trying to make out that maybe some suave special agent gave the commies hell between martinis or something, but for it to go more than just a couple of years sooner than in reality doesn't really work too well. I feel like it would be really stretching things to assume that three years in which the USSR and ISCBG co-existed could account for some of the co-operation and differences we're supposed to have had, not to mention Russian involvement in Africa and Afghanistan.

Anyway, I have no strong opinions on Poland, and Yugoslavia makes sense to me without the Hungarians and Albanians (you know, just the... Slavs).

BG, with a state run economy, the USSR would have to expend more resources to deal with Ukrainian insurrections and increased Afghani troubles (since the USSR in AMW had to face the Hindustanis and Roiks along with the USQ). This decrease in resources would force the USSR government to take away funds from other things, like social programs,and this would make life in the USSR arrive at the "threshold of everyday life" where the people simply could not bear it any longer in the conditions presented a lot earlier.

Then again, the lack of a unified NATO would certainly make life easier in Europe, and would thus let the USSR scrimp there. So I guess it evens out.

I dunno, I might be able to be talked into adjusting so that the USSR collapsed later, as long as it is understodd that Ukraine gained independence at the same time in my timeline.
However, seeing as the largest and most powerful and most important militarilly, economically, financially, populationally nation in the union besides Russia itself managed to successfully wrest itself away from Soviet control, it may have given the rebel groups in all the other nations something to fight about. Also, the loss of those kinds of resources would have an impact like nothing we have seen in RL. Like, the USA losing the entire Eastern Seaboard or something.
And scrimping on the European border with NATO gone may not have been a godd idea at all, because though there wasn't an organised defense against USSR, TBF, USQ, Germany, France, Italy, etc. would have all stood against them, not to mention some seven foot psycho that started building a massive army behind the Ukrainian border.

But, that being said, I was not worried about myself or my history when I mentioned an earlier fall of USSR, it is just that both LRR and AC maintained an earlier afll theory. As I recall, LRR, when he was running Russia, maintained the fall of the Soviet Union at the fifties, until I talked him into keeping it until at least the death of Stalin, and then during teh Lavrageria conflict, AC and I hammered out a plausible history that was able to explain why PUtin was so well recieved, and fit with my timeline, and explained my hatred of the Soviets, and that is where the early 80's number came from. The longer the Soviet Union stood, the more to my advantage, they were agreat way to whip up the Ukrainian population and have them forget about going without certain luxury items like new clothing or education in luei of buying and building more tanks.

Tsar Wingert the Great.

The USSR always had a perfectly good pool of mercenaries on its doorstep, who'd fight just for the chance to fight, or for some beads, or maybe the right to go poaching in Siberia once a year or something, too ;)

And to confirm, since nobody seems to mind, Yugo Slavia will cover the RL former SFRY and Bulgaria. We have a lot of agents in Albania, which soundly rebuffed Lav's hopes of referenda-driven annexation, and for now I'm assuming small Glakatahn minorities in Hungary, too, but no significant success for Aidarov's politics in that nation.

If someone comes along wanting to play Hungary and has a story that doesn't work with the Glakatahn, I'll just suppose they only ever really penetrated the border areas, and they can all then treck out to Yugoslavia to be with Lav. I would also be prepared to give-up Bulgaria to someone who really wanted it, but would need that to be RPd breaking away from Yugoslavia.

Hm, I think I'm happy with this, now! :) Time to do some stuff.

and for now I'm assuming small Glakatahn minorities in Hungary, too, but no significant success for Aidarov's politics in that nation. -Yugo Slavia

You will get Hungry any how over Austria's dead husk, anyhow I hope you have fun. If you keep your long nose out of Hungry I will keep any interest out of Romania or anything else.

OOC: Actually I think your idea is great and has ton of RP potential.

Yeah but the USSR did have a large and frightening ally in Sopworth-era BG, and nothing says that the USSR has to fold all at once. It could be a long, drawn-out process of 'gradual reforms' and whatnot, ending in the final abdication of whoever the last Premier was (Gorbachev I assume, but certainly no earlier than Brezhnev's death I should think...).

I had the USSR fall after Stalin mainly because the Russia I RPed was quite close to western Europe (LRR-Russia's Challenger 2s being a prime example), and concerned mainly with protecting its oil fields from China. But once I realized that no more massive stocks of left-over armaments were available for fighting the Estenlands I started to have second thoughts. :)

As for mercenaries, Glakhatahn warriors are probably some of the better ones. Perhaps Glakhatahn troops gave the Soviets a way to more effectively combat rebel forces in Afghanistan, thus offsetting Hindustan's contributions?

I've been looking over the lists, and I still don't see an active player presence in South America. Peru and Incan Bolivia(It was Bolivia, right?) has AFAIK ceased to play their nations, and only Roycelandia and France(per proxy, Roycelandian Guyana and French Guiana) play infrequently in the region.

I just wanted to know whether we actually have any player nations there besides the Guyanas, Neo-Anarchos and the North/Central American players? If so, whether there would be any interest to start some RPs there?

I was just goint to start some activity in New Provence (F. Guiana).

Nothing big, but it Algeria and New Caledonia get face tome as colonies, New Provence should too.

I think thatd be great to get something started Commonwealth. BTW, is Brazil a NPC nation, I though someone got it?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10112234#post10112234
The Holy Republic, Deutschland (AMW ONLY)

Germany is seeking allies, in case of economic stability, military cooperation, and bilateral ties.

Deutchland>> I believe the African Commonwealth may be amenable to cooperate with you, especially if you have some nuclear weapon technology lying around - you know, the kind you weren't going to use anyway... ;)

Nova Gaul>> What kind of activity? Mind you, radical christian monarchists doing what they like has a tendency to offend neighbouring Anarchans horribly. Heh, looking forward to it, anyway.

Brazil is NPC, yes. So far, I believe only the Anarchan counties(Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Suriname and Venezuela) and F. Guiana/Roycelandian Guyana are accounted for; unless you count Peru and Bolivia, who were both player nations but who are longer active at all. Then there are the isles, where Mannicua and Roycelandia have their home lands; but that is pretty much it. All the rest is NPC.

If you wish, I just came here, and I would be awfully thankful if you can post a short bio about your country African Commonwealth.

There are certain areas I am trying to stay out of.

I should really get around to posting a full factbook thread for both of my AMW nations.

Anyway:

The Democratic Republic of the Greater African Commonwealth is a union of nations(Angola, Dem. Rep. of Congo-Kinshasa, Burundi and Rwanda), as well as parts of the Republic of Congo and Tanzania(Lusaka). Its current leader is General President Ndelebe, who is the protegé of the countrys former dictator, Nwabudike James.

Government: Authoritarian Democracy. Free, multi-party elections; but certain decisions made by the president are ironclad, and either ignores the opposition or creates a small majority in parliament by bribes and threats when necessary - This is particularly true of the new nuclear program, that has been started without parliaments knowledge.

Culture and Nation: The Commonwealth is an industrially powerful nation - The land holds great, vast areas filled with natural resources that have not been utilized at all IRL. This has allowed AC to become a both commerical and military power factor in Africa. Things like research and health care has also been prioritized, and preventable diseases like ebola, malaria and AIDS are being curtailed.

It is a tribal-dominated society, with a nationalist streak that has been growing since the Gabonaise war, were the government first started to aid other black African nations develop their farmland, industry and military.

Not the stablest place to be in the world, but much safer than RL Congo, for what that's worth ;)

Tord started play as Argentina-Paraguay a while back, but hasn't been on much... I'll try and get ahold of him and see if he's gone for good or just hasn't been paying much attention.

Deutchland>> I believe the African Commonwealth may be amenable to cooperate with you, especially if you have some nuclear weapon technology lying around - you know, the kind you weren't going to use anyway... ;)

Nova Gaul>> What kind of activity? Mind you, radical christian monarchists doing what they like has a tendency to offend neighbouring Anarchans horribly. Heh, looking forward to it, anyway.

Brazil is NPC, yes. So far, I believe only the Anarchan counties(Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Suriname and Venezuela) and F. Guiana/Roycelandian Guyana are accounted for; unless you count Peru and Bolivia, who were both player nations but who are longer active at all. Then there are the isles, where Mannicua and Roycelandia have their home lands; but that is pretty much it. All the rest is NPC.

Last time I checked, Nicaragua and El Salvador weren't islands...

German money for your weapons.

What's Germany's position towards France?

I am taking LRR's recent offer to start RPing the United Kingdom under serious consideration. I will most likely make a decision within the next one to two weeks. However, if the rest of the RPing community finds another player that has a greater support base among the current players, I will of course understand if that is the final decision of the group.

Thanks a lot, Val!

Your help is greatly appreciated. You have my stamp of approval.

*Stamps*

Well, i know that my biggest contribution to AMW so far has been a two week absence, but I would like to say that Valinon is one of the best roleplayers I know. My sketchy schedule (and the tech difference between Valinon and Iansisle) has kept me from participating with him on the scale I should have liked, but I fully reccomentd him in any capacity he would like. =)

I think it would be great for AMW to have an active Britain, but it's worth bearing in mind that the Britain in AMW didn't have quite as large an Empire in RL (Almost the entire Caribbean and large chunks of East Africa are Roycelandian, instead).

I'd always wanted to RP Britain and Roycelandia as being fairly close (I mean, most of our equipment is WWI/WWII British- based, after all!) but TBF didn't seem too keen on the idea for some reason.

Since Roycelandia is very close to France, it might provide some interesting plot points to have the UK close to Roycelandia as well, possibly acting as a go-between...

Well, the UK still had India and probably didn't care much for the want of Kenya, relatively speaking ;) Not to mention South Africa, half of Zambia, much of West Africa, presumably much of the Americas for a time at least, something of the Middle East, and its minor though often strategic outposts as still held in reality.

Anyway, TBF didn't get along with Roycelandia initially because it was played with a left-wing administration having replaced Thatcher's, and it was all about self-sufficiency and left-leaning economics... then it was handed over to a new player, who played the conservative backlash... very briefly and without any obvious impact, before leaving. Whoever takes over will, presumably, follow from there.

1) close of 1970s to late 1980s the age of Thatcherism: economy recovers but many people don't feel it, radical leftist revolutions around the world hurt/remove London's allies, the sleazy Tories crash in record unpopularity

2) close of 1980s to late 1990s the age of, dare I say it, Bull: patriotic social-democrats take advantage of Thatcher's troubles and global leftist revival and sweep British Industial Democrats to power, economic reforms spread the wealth, political statements made by disowning of Thatcherite allies in Washington and Port Royal and in a bit of good timing maybe even Singapore, Bull's government accidentally isolates the UK economically and militarily by standing against the ridiculous right-swing on the continent and failing to go far enough for real support in the newly strong Progressive Bloc

3) close of 1990s to early 2000s, the age of that guy with the birdy name: wallets looking skinny and Bull getting fat and tired the Conservatives get back in after a couple of terms spent purging the sleaze, London starts to rebuild ties and re-privatise industry but Tories appear to lack the drive of the early BID Party years and nobody pays any attention to the UK for a few years

4) mid 2000s to date unknown: reaction to stage 3!

's the Igovian take on the last quarter century in the UK :)
I'd imagine that either the Tories get a new leader sharpish and (s)he makes a more forceful first impression, or the radical left was recharged by defeat after two (or three?) successive terms and comes back at the very first opportunity.

Of coruse there are more radical options such as coup or revolution probably initated by Holy League or Igovian-Soviet intrigue, but it might be harder to make that believable.

Last time I checked, Nicaragua and El Salvador weren't islands...

I meant the isles AND central america, wise one ;)

I for one also support the addition of Britain. Without anyone playing important RL nations(no offense to people living elsewhere) such as Britain, Israel and Germany(now we got a Germany, but we didn't use to), the actions they will take as NPCs are probably highly contentious, if they take any at all because they don't, well, have a controlling player.

I vote AYE for valinon playing britain.

^ He has the job.



germany sees France as one of the only capable countries in the Holy Alliance. Germany wishes to maintain formal relations with this nation.


Germany is a highly conervative state, and has mixed feelings about Monarchy. However, the government has pledged to prevent the rise of Socialism, and any new monarchies that may endanger the Republics of this world.


Economic Left/Right: -0.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.44

^going to model Germany according to this. Conservatism!

Erm, it's Holy League...And I'd say you'd have to view Wingert's Russian Empire as quite capable too, what with a booming economy (in the Russian, Lavragerian, and Kazakhstani parts anyhow), a powerful military (well, two militaries really---Wingert's huge, more outdated conscript army, and Putin's former, smaller, more professional and well equipped army), and a population of over 200 million. Also, neither Spain nor Italy, with fairly strong economies and militaries, are pushovers either.


Oh, and your Econ stats are surprisingly left leaning for a conservative...Ha, I got roughly 5+ for each

Ah, I'll always miss Bull's UK... the Spyran ambassador would drop by at midnight, Bull would be in his Union Jack vest, pickling his liver after hearing of the latest French escapade. We'd laugh, we'd chat, we'd tell him that those crazy Christians were going to destroy the world unless he told them what-for...

Those were the days. Now its just "You Indians, go fight those Imperialists! ... ...what do you mean, 'do it yourself?' ".

Alright, for starters thank you for the support so far, and I believe I have my decision. I have decided to at least try RPing the United Kingdom in the AMW for the moment, but I would like to make it known that Valinon is still (and for the foreseeable future always will be) my primary nation.

That being said, I was wondering if I could get the full status of the United Kingdom and its "empire" as it exists in the current environment of AMW. If someone would be so kind as to either email or TGram me with the details it would be greatly appreciated. Also, is there a game play map for the AMW world?

I thought there already was a UK?

Inactivity, I guess. Hopefully this new UK is less sympathetic to imperialism...

We had a UK, and it was anti-imperialist and the only active European nation (actually, the only active western nation, I think) standing opposed to the Holy League... then it had a general election and was handed over to a new player, who [briefly] played it as a bit of a lapdog to the imperialist bloc before taking the account into inactivity. Now we're looking at Valinon presumably starting from the next general election, or else from a leadership battle in the sitting Tory party, or whatever else he can come up with.

I must admit, I don't know everything about the historical British empire in AMW, off the top of my head.

It didn't include some African territories since Roycelandia got Sudan, Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, and half of Zambia, but I think all the rest there was as normal.

The Caribbean holdings may be different because of Roycelandia, too.

It did include most of the Indian territories, though things were a little different with the white Geletians already being on hand.

However, I find that I can't remember the history of United Elias and the likes of Bonstock. Did the British hold Belize before it became UE territory? Egypt, Iraq? South East Asia I know even less about. Well, I'm done being useless here.

The Elian territories which are/were British colonial holdings in RL were mostly 'gifted' by the UK to UE at various points in exchange for support and services rendered.

Southeast Asia is the special case... following the Pacific War, the FRB and Marimaia arose there in lieu of the preceding colonial administrations (though I'm not sure about Marimaian background and exactly when the region was unified into one entity (under the first Suun regime?)). Singapore certainly fought off British return after '45, and if we ever get a Holland player so did their East Indies holdings.

(Elian history can be seen here (http://s9.invisionfree.com/NS_Modern_World/index.php?showtopic=40) on invision and somewhere on the NSWiki. FRB history (sort-of) here (http://s9.invisionfree.com/NS_Modern_World/index.php?showtopic=80)).

Hey, waking this back up. I'm still working on the new thread. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=455144

Doing Europe, at the moment.

Austria [Just need to add the nation's official title]

Germany [As above]

Spain [Mac is back (sorry) but just to confirm, there's no associated territories other than Spain's own, right?]

France [What's the status of other territories, here?]

UK [Valinon accepting and accepted in this role?]

Yugoslavia [...Oh, I can add that now, actually.]

Belarus [Erm, I think that I can work this out, more or less]

Latvia

Estonia

Lithuania

Ukraine

Russia [These last ones I am not yet sure how to present. Shall I put them all under The Estenlands?]

Everything else [Oh, I'm running out of energy already :) ]

Yeah, list all those under Estenlands. And France's colonial posessions include all RL posessions (excluding the islands involved in the BG conflict, which were sold to the Roiks, and all New World posessions, which were sold to the Canadians.) and Algeria.

I claim Mexico, California and Belize

Vietnamexico, post an application in the proper format. -_-

Yes, only Spain.

Vietnamexico>> As AC said, proper format - and I can already divulge that both Belize and California are probably out of the question(Belize is a United Elian territory, and California is part of North America, all of which is claimed by Quinntonia).

Hey, waking this back up. I'm still working on the new thread. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=455144
Doing Europe, at the moment.
Austria [Just need to add the nation's official title]


The Prussian Political State of Austria
Austria's Factbook (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=447224)
Der Unabhängige (http://s9.invisionfree.com/NS_Modern_World/index.php?showtopic=193) (Austria's News Thread)

Anyhow Vietnamexico could have an Mexican evolution in California (You know those Mexicans who have the bumper stickers proclaiming Mexican pride and "Amexican" and what not).*

*A not reall that realistic idea but who knows?

The Kingdom of France includes:

France itself

Corsica

The Kingdom of Algeria---Everything north of Laghouat and Ft. St. Joan, a vassal state which is ruled by Louis I.

New Caledonia

New Provence (Formerly known as French Guiana)

I think thats about it then, we gave Southern Algeria to Roycelandia, same goes for French Polynesia.

Anyway Netherlands, Belgium, or Denmark become a part of Germany or at least protectorates?

We had a UK, and it was anti-imperialist and the only active European nation (actually, the only active western nation, I think) standing opposed to the Holy League... then it had a general election and was handed over to a new player, who [briefly] played it as a bit of a lapdog to the imperialist bloc before taking the account into inactivity. Now we're looking at Valinon presumably starting from the next general election, or else from a leadership battle in the sitting Tory party, or whatever else he can come up with.

I must admit, I don't know everything about the historical British empire in AMW, off the top of my head.

It didn't include some African territories since Roycelandia got Sudan, Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, and half of Zambia, but I think all the rest there was as normal.

The Caribbean holdings may be different because of Roycelandia, too.

It did include most of the Indian territories, though things were a little different with the white Geletians already being on hand.

However, I find that I can't remember the history of United Elias and the likes of Bonstock. Did the British hold Belize before it became UE territory? Egypt, Iraq? South East Asia I know even less about. Well, I'm done being useless here.

Hello, sorry everyone I was away, ironically enough in India.
I will be active from now and will continue to play the Uk. First just to counter a few things that BG mentioned. When you say 'briefly' you are in fact talking of a period of more than in my estimation six months. Additionally the UK governemnt has in no way been an imperialist lap dog as you put it, but has simply reversed the government's previous trends of being allied with the socialist bloc. The current UK government has sought to improve the unity and revelance of the NATO alliance, and has been at the point of taking up arms against the French and the Spanish on numerous occasions.

The AMW UK under PM Chaffin is based on decades of post-colonial British diplomacy focusing on maintaining a balance of power, advancing the cause of democracy where appropriate and largely attempting to avoid becoming involved in large scale conflict and generally prevent it. It is unrealistic to suppose that any British government of the modern era could presume to have as much influence as those of previous generations, and Britain must accept that it is no longer a superpower and will never have the relative economic strength to be so again.

Well, there is no democracy in continental Europe, and the Igovian position is still that you're lapdogs by dealing with and legitimising the rulers there at all (hence our own increasing economic struggles and the current state of hardline revolutionary upheaval in India).

Also... oh, so welcome back! This presents an obstacle to Valinon's participation, then! Quick, someone present a clever solution! And would you look at all this excited punctuation! I blame the hangover! Ow! I'll stop.

Urm...well Valinon could have the Republic of Ireland ;)
And welcome back TBF, though I should tell you I have been away for a bit as well, well not so much away but busy...too busy even for NS

Well, Spain is a democracy - officially a constitutional monarchy. In fact, I plan on having the socialist win the next election, after some advances in diplomacy with the French.

Wonderful to have you back, TBF!

When you got deleted a while back, we sort of panicked, I must say. Eh, Valinon, well, there are many other nations open and my most sincere apologies for offering you the job prematurely.

Welcome back!

As for Valinon, most of Scandinavia is free.

All of Scandinavia is free, isn't it? To my knowledge, neither Denmark, Finland, Norway or Sweden is claimed.

Germany is a Democracy. Not even a Constitutional Monarchy. I think Germany and The UK should help preserve democracy in Europe.





Poland is free.

I've started a basic map for Europe. Intend to do others for the rest of the world, in the same basic fashion. Just to show what's claimed, really. I can easily change the colours to indicate alliance blocs or something if people prefer, but I really just intend it as a quick visual reference as to what space we've got left and that sort of thing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/europe.jpg

The shared colour of Germany and the Lavragerian Republic is not significant. I assume that there will be more shared colours as the map fills up, which shouldn't be a problem so long as they're not ajoining- I think that's better than having twenty seven different tones and shades, anyway.

Possibly this can be linked in the new thread or something. I know it's pretty simplistic, but it's more likely to be updated that way :)

I wouldn't count on the Lavragerian Republic/Germany sharing color issue to last very long, BG. ;)

BG, why isnt Corsica blue? Other than that nicely done.

I encourage Valinon to stay, Ireland indeed behooves a player. In the end though, he seems capable, and the tableau of his nationhood is really his choice. After all, who wants to be the Swedes?

All this talk of democracy. In Greek Im sure you all know what the root demos translates as, although being a Latinist my trans might be a bit clumsy: "mob rule."

Democracy made Plato toss and turn, and Polybius defined it as the most horrific state of society. Republics, well, Quinntonnia has done an admirable job in that department I think, in regards to illustrating differences between Republic and Democracy. Far as Im concerned, Id say the only two truly democratic nations in AMW are BG and Hindustan, nuff said. For goodness sake, the NAZIs took power through Democracy!

Id rather deal with a socialist than a democrat (small d), at least you know they have principles. Democracy is nothing but the unprincipled garden of demagouges and perjurers. Not to belabor the point, its just a hang up of mine. Democracy is from the very pit of hell. As well, for all you Christians out there, Democracy is not condusive to Christ. Christ is the King of the Universe, not President pro tem...Democracy is what Satan proposed, and what he wishes: do what you will indeed is the Satanic creed. Marx was right about this at least...democratic capitalism, in its drive for greater rights for producers and markets, will strip away all that is good about Western, indeed international, civilization. Gone will be values of any kind, soon well have commercials hard wired into our brains and have to listen to pompous windbags like George Bush and other such demagouges in our sleep.

Well, looks like Ive had a bit too much holiday cheer this evening. Oh, and hey, TBF, great to have you back! How was the sub-continent...a few decadent co-workers of mine travel there often to take sabbatical in the Bagwans compound. Im curious, were you, like many Englishmen, vacationing in the South of India for the Winter? Youll find Europe much calmer now, by about 90% I should think. Tally ho!

Also, we should probably get a new Italy, if possible.

BG, awesome job on the map - could we possibly know what map you used as reference, so that the continents match? I could possibly stick my head in with Lusaka, Royce and Strath and we could whip up an African map.

Good question, M.France, and the answer is... er... uhm... Corsica... smells! [runs off to colour it in]



Oh, and I'm afraid it was just a random map. I picked a fairly plain generic one since I was struggling to find decent clear maps of each continent. The first ones I went for were full of little impurities that made it impossible to fill the areas with a single click, and even this one wasn't perfect and took an age of filling in little cracks and corners. Erm, I'm sure there's plenty of okay-ish blank outline maps for the other continents, anyway. Asia might be a bit of a scale nightmare, though.

Well, I wants to be the Swedes!

*Points to Gripen, CV-90, Visby, RBS-23, RBS-15, AMOS*

Though I think the Finns would be more interesting, since then you could have proxy wars with Tsarist Russia. And the Finns...well, no messing with them. Their choice of the F/A-18 might have been in my mind a bit bad, but besides that they've got the CV-9030, RBS-15, Leopard 2A4, AMOS, Patria AMV, and a ton of other handy equipment. I think if Tsar Wingert tried at the Finns they'd bat him away like they did the USSR during the Winter War.

Of course, poor old Mozambique can't even protect itself from the big, mean Free State!

*Tries to look pitiable so TBF sells Challenger 1/2s*

Yes, the Finns do rock. I meant no slander towards the Swedes either: not too long ago they were a force to be reckoned with, its just nowadays...well, I cant see the Scandanavian states, excluding Finland, doing anything but sitting back and enjoying a rising alcoholism rate. Actually, I take that back. Norway still has some guts, the Finns always have. Its just the Swedes that are no longer able to affect the world. Sweden let the NAZIs roll right through during WW2, and said tickety boo about the occupation. But, hey, they still have a King. So Ill shut up.

Thanks BG, much obliged. An Asia map would be a bear of a task, wouldnt it?

Valinon seems to come highly reccomended. I am hopeful that he will find a place to suit himself. South Africa is a bit Anglic, no? And has a huge economy.

Well, NG, Republic to me is simply a practical form of democracy. Pure democracy doesn't work because of scale issues (having everyone vote on every issue is insane...even BG, with its constant referendums, still has some form of representation to handle mundane issues), but I believe that there is nothing that makes a king any more qualified to rule a country than its own people. They live in the country and face the consequences of its government; why can't they rule it? And it's not unChristian, Jean. Christ is King because he is the Son Of God. Only He has divine authority as King.

AC, thank you for taking up my point.

A King is qualified to rule because quite simply monarchy on earth is a reflection of the divine monarchy in heaven. From the beginning of the Judeo-Christian tradition, this has been the case. Case in point: study the 'revolutions' that shook Europe, beginning with Martin Luther. Although they may have intended to do good, I do not doubt that, they inadvertenly contributed to the secularization and consumerism that is now the staple of Western Civlization. Martin Luther weakened the Catholic Church, this in turn led to religious wars which made secularization appealing, with God being replaced by profit and so called liberty. The American Revolution demonstrated the power of this phenomena, and the French Revolution only cemented it.

Let us now then turn to the German and Russian Revolutions, circa 1917-1919. They destroyed the edifice of monarchy, and created the vacuum which allowed totalitarianism to floruish in both lands, and others by default.

I know I made a brief and choppy point, but I dont want to take up too much room on this non-related thread. In sum, the drive for democracy, or Republic, so called, has systematically destroyed, or will destroy, every noble western tradition: religiousity, chivalry, noblesse oblige, treasuring the poor, a culture of respecting life [abortion, euthenasia] (the Kings of France allegedly had the power to heal the sick and poor mind you, the Royal Touch, for more info read the treatise by Martin Bloch), and most importantly holding the two parent family up as the model of society. The people, AC, shoudlnt rule because quite simply they are in no wise entitled to. Monarchy is a reflection of the sublime order of heaven. Every step away from that is a step towards the devils glee, and eventual oblivion of values as we know them.

Hmm...I will consider Ireland, but I would also like to put forward a few other propositions. I would like to take possibly the Dutch or the Swiss. However, if I do the Dutch I might make them be considerably more "preemenient" in world affairs, possibly redressing their resource problems with attempts to break back into the East Indies. Also, what about the Swiss? Seems like AMW might be missing a bit of an "insidious shadowy hand" as it were, and I think I could do that with the Swiss. If neither of these will work, I will probably take Ireland or Norway, a nation I am considerably more familiar with than the Republic of Eire.

You know, Nova Gaul, I'm as anti-nationalist as a person can be; but if you think those things about Scandinavia, you clearly know jack about the place.

Personally, I'd much rather be in any scandinavian country than USA, Germany, France and Holland - put together.

However, I think we should probably take our talk about nations and monarchy and whatnot to other threads or the Invision board, so our Off-topic rambling doesn't clutter up this place.

Hmm...I will consider Ireland, but I would also like to put forward a few other propositions. I would like to take possibly the Dutch or the Swiss. However, if I do the Dutch I might make them be considerably more "preemenient" in world affairs, possibly redressing their resource problems with attempts to break back into the East Indies. Also, what about the Swiss? Seems like AMW might be missing a bit of an "insidious shadowy hand" as it were, and I think I could do that with the Swiss. If neither of these will work, I will probably take Ireland or Norway, a nation I am considerably more familiar with than the Republic of Eire.

Indeed...if there's one thing you can learn from the Belgians, its that even a small country can do no end of harm.

But I gather you're looking for a colonial experience altogether different from Belgium's. Those guys were truly wackos and its a shame more weren't killed by native revolts.

But thats besides the point.

The Netherlands would be quite good, since they've got a navy worth talking about first of all, and has Belgium as a buffer state to keep France at arm's length. If you cozy up to Germany or the UK, you could very well have a fine and secure position in today's violent and reactionary Europe.

As for breaking back into the Dutch East Indies, well, that might present some problems.

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Malacca_War

I wrote up a piece dealing somewhat with the state of affairs in the region on NSwiki and it has some links to more relevant threads.

But in short the Dutch East Indies is currently divided into a number of rather heavily militarized independent states and a Malaya that recently became a British dominion again after being levelled by Bonstock's final throes of aggression. Your best chance would be Timor, which currently is by itself.

As for Switzerland, well, honestly I don't see how that country has much to do, being bordered on all sides by much larger and much less landlocked neighbors, but then again Kashu made a wonderful showing of his tiny slice of Assam so there are hardly any absolutes.

What I would suggest most strongly is the unoccupied portion of India. BG and Hindustan (I) could use someone playing those states, which constitute several hundred million people. There might be a chance for disputes with any of the other two Indias and China, or a nominally independent Pakistan (should the Soveriegnty Act ever be approved).

The Republic of South Africa or Botswana are also important nations in AMW's current state of affairs as it pertains to Sub-Saharan Africa, and an RP'd RSA could make things very interesting in that part of the world. But the list goes on. Brazil, Ethiopia, Scandanavia...

Youre correct, Commonwealth. Ive only been to Stockholm, and that for only a few days. I do not claim to know jack about it, apologies if I offended you. What I know I only gleaned from histories, and since I do not speak any Scadanavian tongues, it was second hand. I also have some excellent Swedish friends, some of the finest people Ive ever met...incidentially, they would share your anti-nationalist attitudes. And agreed, that was my last blurb on democracy on this thread.

Valinon, those sound like good ideas. If you choose the Swiss, which are a fascinating people, just know that the French Monarchy (exactly like it did during the Ancien Regime) hires out Swiss on a contract basis to serve in the Royal Army. Indeed, the finest soldiers in France are the Garde Suisse, which are the King's personal Bodyguards. This is not an invasion into internal Swiss affairs, Versailles just lets it be known that they will get paid insane amounts to serve. I like the Dutch idea, and think if you want to 'reach out and touch someone', that would be your best avenue.

Oh yah and South America is wide open, with several huge nations (Brazil, Peru, Chile) open. Brazil in particular has the potential to be a major, major player, withs its resources and population.

I will most likely be the Dutch. I'm sorry, I have no real interest in India at all. Also, South Africa is definitely out. My knowledge of South African history only runs up to the apartheid, and I do not think I can play that legitmately in AMW.

But I will probably go with the Dutch, with my first act being to install a puppet regime in Timor, possibly expanding beyond it.

AC, thank you for taking up my point.

A King is qualified to rule because quite simply monarchy on earth is a reflection of the divine monarchy in heaven. From the beginning of the Judeo-Christian tradition, this has been the case. Case in point: study the 'revolutions' that shook Europe, beginning with Martin Luther. Although they may have intended to do good, I do not doubt that, they inadvertenly contributed to the secularization and consumerism that is now the staple of Western Civlization. Martin Luther weakened the Catholic Church, this in turn led to religious wars which made secularization appealing, with God being replaced by profit and so called liberty. The American Revolution demonstrated the power of this phenomena, and the French Revolution only cemented it.

Let us now then turn to the German and Russian Revolutions, circa 1917-1919. They destroyed the edifice of monarchy, and created the vacuum which allowed totalitarianism to floruish in both lands, and others by default.

I know I made a brief and choppy point, but I dont want to take up too much room on this non-related thread. In sum, the drive for democracy, or Republic, so called, has systematically destroyed, or will destroy, every noble western tradition: religiousity, chivalry, noblesse oblige, treasuring the poor, a culture of respecting life [abortion, euthenasia] (the Kings of France allegedly had the power to heal the sick and poor mind you, the Royal Touch, for more info read the treatise by Martin Bloch), and most importantly holding the two parent family up as the model of society. The people, AC, shoudlnt rule because quite simply they are in no wise entitled to. Monarchy is a reflection of the sublime order of heaven. Every step away from that is a step towards the devils glee, and eventual oblivion of values as we know them.


LOL! I always get nervous when Catholics start to draw upon Martin Luther to support a piont, as a Lutheran it usually ends up grossly misrepresenting his teachings.
Christ is apolitical, in fact, He rules as our King, in a divine theocracy. Not a monachy. I am not Latinist, I am studying Kione and Classical Greek currently, however, I can tell you that monarchy, from the Greek, means simply, mono=one and archon=ruler. Having a King in your government no more makes you a monarchist than having a vote makes you a democrat. That is how one differentiates between so-called "absolute monarchy"; a rather late entry into the western world that was so popularised by the Great Sun King, Louis XIV (l'etat, c'est moi. I love that!) and the governmental form of say Phillip-Augustous during the turn of the 13th Century, at the time of the Third Crusade, called fuedalism. Then there is the English innovation of the Parliamentary or the Constitutional Monarchy that simply is a combined form of fuedalism and representative democracy.

That being said, the claim that monarchy reflects the Divine Order is just not justfied, as the orginal form of government that God implemented was both tribal and patriachal, with God directly ruling his people by raising up "judges" to defend them in time of trouble. In fact, it is in the Book of Judges that the first king of Isreal, Abimelech, took power and this was seen as rebelling against God. And was allowed to punish Isreal for their transgressions. The second king that took power, and was finally ordained by God, Saul, was given to the Isrealites against the better judgement of God, and His prophet Samuel.

1 Sam 8:4b-9
So all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They said to him, "You are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways; now appoint a king to lead [a] us, such as all the other nations have."


6 But when they said, "Give us a king to lead us," this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the LORD. 7 And the LORD told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do."

And even when the king was annointed by God, because the people were rebellios, it was still meant to be a triumverate; with King, Priests and Prophet ruling as a sort of High Council, each with specific roles. The King to run the government and military, the Priests to teach and rule the lives of the people, and the Prophet to speak for God and rebuke the other two, especially the King.

This, of course, fell apart and was perverted by the Isrealites to serve their own ambitions, and eventually lead to the destruction of their nations by the Assyrians and then the Babylonians, leading to the exile.

That being said, democracy is a decidely unChristian style of government. Just like Monarchy. But at least the idea for a monarchy can be taken from Scripture.

Now with that being said, there is not a word in Scripture or the Church Fathers that could lead anyone to beleive that any form of government would be more or less God-pleasing, God would be pleased with any government that holds Him in high esteem and is compassionate to its people and wise stewards of the resources that were given them by Him.


Oh, and TBF, welcome back!

WWJD
Amen.

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Malacca_War

ooc: Darnit, I'll never live any of that down! Darn my stupid past mistakes...

*heavy sigh*

But I will probably go with the Dutch, with my first act being to install a puppet regime in Timor, possibly expanding beyond it.

Isn't that the poorest country (GDP [per capita]) wise? Or is that "East Timor"? Oh and if you start installing puppet goverments then I am going to install puppet goverments and then we all are going to be installing and then the world is going to go into an installing mood.

I think you should do well to read that as his first attempted act and not jump to any non getting-his-arse-kicked conclusions.

Anyway, I think you're probably quite welcome to take the Netherlands, Valinon, though you aren't actually obligated to play it as Dutch, per se, if you don't wish to. Though it sounds like you do. Right.

Isn't that the poorest country (GDP [per capita]) wise? Or is that "East Timor"? Oh and if you start installing puppet goverments then I am going to install puppet goverments and then we all are going to be installing and then the world is going to go into an installing mood.

For your information, no, East Timor sits comfortably above Cyprus, Palau, Micronesia, and The Northern Marianas. And when one figures in that nearly half of East Timor's 600,000 population in 1975 were killed by Indonesia and another near half fled the country (later to return, by and large), East Timor is doing rather well for itself.

Although I daresay the Bonstockians would have been even more heavy-handed than Indonesia, given what they did in Mergui.

Thankfully, Austria is safely landlocked and surrounded by neighbors who won't shy away from giving it a thorough pounding...

Germany will support Netherlands, so be happy. If there was an active Belgium, Germany would do the same. I love Belgium chocolates, and the flowers of Holland. :)

Actually, why don't you RP both Netherlands and Belgium?

Belgium too? Just be aware, as some of you may have noticed on the Roik vacation thread, France has plans to bring Belgium into the fold via a vassalship, this was worked out since the Germans reappeared. The Monarchy will not be responsible for a THIRD German invasion, in recent memory, into its territory. Not a direct invasion of Belgium mind you, but seeing a absolute monarchy installed that will be a client state to France.

Imperialist Dutch. Joy! I would love to see a busy mercantilist Holland, Im getting bad vibes from the Germans.

::France sits back and relaxes, with the Tsar as Big Brother to beat the Germans down if they get re-baptised Prussian::

Belgium too? Just be aware, as some of you may have noticed on the Roik vacation thread, France has plans to bring Belgium into the fold via a vassalship, this was worked out since the Germans reappeared. The Monarchy will not be responsible for a THIRD German invasion, in recent memory, into its territory. Not a direct invasion of Belgium mind you, but seeing a absolute monarchy installed that will be a client state to France.

Imperialist Dutch. Joy! I would love to see a busy mercantilist Holland, Im getting bad vibes from the Germans.

::France sits back and relaxes, with the Tsar as Big Brother to beat the Germans down if they get re-baptised Prussian::

Belgium too? Just be aware, as some of you may have noticed on the Roik vacation thread, France has plans to bring Belgium into the fold via a vassalship, this was worked out since the Germans reappeared. The Monarchy will not be responsible for a THIRD German invasion, in recent memory, into its territory. Not a direct invasion of Belgium mind you, but seeing a absolute monarchy installed that will be a client state to France.

Imperialist Dutch. Joy! I would love to see a busy mercantilist Holland, Im getting bad vibes from the Germans.

::France sits back and relaxes, with the Tsar as Big Brother to beat the Germans down if they get re-baptised Prussian::


Me fix'um real good if day mess wit my widdle brudder!

Tsar Wingert the Great.

We need a Portugal to make Spanish relations a bit more interesting.

Hey, so I know that maybe I'm getting a bit ahead of myself, but while doing other things I couldn't help colouring in more maps :) So I've started an Africa one, too. Hope nobody minds.

It has grey areas and Xs indicating transition or uncertainty on my part, and there's lots of points that have to be addressed.

You'll note that Gabon is cut in two- is that right, now? The actual Republic of Gabon, backed by Lusaka and the African Commonwealth, and the conquered portion formerly split in two itself... did that become united under Roycelandian protection?

No doubt Armand is about to point out that Nigeria's blank, I forgot to mark it sort of deliberately... I mean, I was colouring all the UWA nations around it and making sure to not accidentally include Nigeria. It'll be coloured in next time I upload an update. Is there any internal division of authority that needs marking there?

The map doesn't appear to recognise Eritrea, which I've only just noticed on uploading it, but I'll try to draw a border in with the next update.

Western Sahara is 'greyed-out' because I wasn't sure if I ought to give it a colour of its own just yet.

Algeria is grey because I don't know quite how the divisions look in respect of French and Roycelandian authority.

Egypt has an X but is not grey because, I believe, part of it is included in United Elias, but there may still be scope for another player in Egypt- the divisions here will have to be explain/shown to me for next time, too.

Angola is marked with an X but not coloured because I'm not sure how total/recognised is the African Commonwealth's control there.

I suppose that I should colour the Canary Islands to indicate Spanish control.

I've already coloured Socotra Roycelandian blue, but apparently after uploading (oops).

I've split Congo Brazzaville into un-played Republic of Congo and part of African Commonwealth.

Bukoba is edited to demonstrate the ceding of the west from Lusakan to African Commonwealth control.

Tanzania is split again to indicate the Lusaka/Al Khals division.

Zambia is split to indicate Lusaka and unplayed-ish West Zambia, which is in grey while still sort of kind of not officially under Lusaka's administration.

A part of the eastern extent of Katanga is indicated under Lusakan control and split from Congo-Zaire/AC.

Zimbabwe is marked-out due to its being in use though not a proper PC nation per se.

Mozambique is grey to indicate that it's in use but that I don't know enough specifics about the Commonwealth/Free State/Strathdonian division to do more just yet.

Libya I did not grey though I was almost playing it myself and it isn't exaaactly as in real life, but I didn't want to mark it and discourage new players from interest in it.

I've also re-coloured the major lakes a light blue so they won't be confused with independent or disputed territory, and this will show-up with the next update.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/outline_africa.jpg

I could be wrong, but I was indeed under the impression that all of Egypt was part of United Elias. No doubt he will correct us, but just thought I'd mention it...

Should the fact that Spain owns Ceuta and Melilla be put on the map, as well?

I dunno, I got the impression from my brief spell controlling Libya, during which I'm sure that I remember a buffer existing between that nation and United Elias, which would have been western Egypt, a nice desert though it may be.

And yes, the Spanish holdings in Morocco, right, I'll make a note about that for next time, too.

Looking great, man.

The 'Imperialist' half of Gabon is now wholly Roycelandian, as I understand it. In a semi-recent RP, United Elias ceded total control to Roycelandia.

Angola is effectively under military occupation by the African Commonwealth still. It is thought that the Angolan president will soon agree to let Angola join AC so that it's people may enjoy better commerce, health care and military security.

Also, AC will someday annex the other Congo, but that is still very hushhush - No part of the Congo that is not Zaire is effectively Commonwealth territory, but it probably will be. I don't know what to say about Bukoba and Katanga.. The Commonwealth WOULD like to own both completely, but in effect they are disputed territories.

I did a quick flood fill job to try and show the current situation within Mozambique.
uncloured areas are the Commonwaelth (Crooked Beat)

lin (big pic) (http://www.meatballs.terminator.org.uk/crookfur/images/mozambiqueAMW.jpg)

Curse you people with your applications-beyond-MSPaint!

I mean, cheers, I should be able to include that information when I stumble in and work off my hangover with NS, next year :)

Lol nothing more fun than messing with Paint shop Pro 7's selection tools and transparencies...

Actually PC world have PSP 10 for about £50 juts now, maybe its time to upgrade...

Just to let everyone know, I've decided to play the evil, maniacal, rampantly decadent Dutch. Now if someone would be so kind as to point me in the direction of the major current threads for AMW I would appreciate it.....

Just a minor note concerning Eritrea, it is essentially under Hindustani control, after Al-Ahzad and I more or less invaded the country on the pretext of defeating Arslan Buryunz's Suloist rebellion. That said, there is plenty of room for somebody to come along and RP an Eritrean government, even if it were authoritarian and horrible, so long as they gave the impression of democratic progress and didn't turn evil until the HDFs left.

And Mumbai is planning to withdraw in large part from the country quite soon, leaving it with a well-stocked military.


Also, I've been thinking about taking Hindustan in a new direction lately. Unlike my earlier plans somewhat like it, this won't provide justification for me to leave Hindustan and take a new country somewhere. I think it will make Indian RPing a whole lot more eventful and interesting, and make Hindustan into a thoroughly dynamic country.


My plan is to RP the remainder of western India, but not as a single nation with a coherent ideology. Parliament will split Hindustan into four essentially independent Commonwealths, consisting of Pakistan (Democratic-Socialist), Gujarat (Democratic-Socialist), Maharasthra (Democratic-Socialist), and Madhya Pradesh (Democratic-Socialist). These four states will be joined in the Indian Union by Rajasthan (Principality with some liberal tendancies), North Pakistan (tribally administered), North India (rather corrupt Parliamentary democracy), Bihar (entirely corrupt one-party state), and Kashmir (militarist principality).

Thrown into the mix will be Hindustani criminal elements, largely concentrated in Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh, Maoist rebels in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, insurrectionists in Kashmir, an ongoing border feud between Pakistan proper and North Pakistan, massive criminality and poverty in Delhi and Haryana, ethnic violence in Indian Punjab, Kalhistani seperatists, and a host of other problems.

Nice map! It's a pity the Cape Verde Islands aren't there (Scale, of course) but excellent work, and I think it shows Africa pretty well!

Wow, LRR, it seems you are never satisfied with India :P

I RP'ed as Dra-pol's "south of the DMZ" counterpart back in the day (my nation was South Dalania) and I actually had a lot of fun doing so. Obviously since my nation was deleted for inactivity :headbang:, my claim to the region is probably nullified as of now (given I realize the territory probably isn't even open) but if it is, I wouldn't mind taking the geographical role again.

If not I'll just settle for leeching off the culture and ethnicity of the Korean peninsula without staking a land claim :D

I could be wrong, but I was indeed under the impression that all of Egypt was part of United Elias. No doubt he will correct us, but just thought I'd mention it...

TBF, you are corrrect, all of Egypt is part of UE.

Ah, South Dalania.


Well, I expect you'll be welcome to take back control of the ROK, though, er, it's not quite what it used to be. I don't remember exactly when you left, so you may or may not know that Dra-pol's invasion took the People's Army (now the Unified People's Army) as far south as Andong in the east (where the Hindustanis, of all people, stopped them) and just south of Suwon in the west, where they made less progress thanks to a brutal allied bombing campaign but did of course take Seoul.

A lot of South Korea's infrastructure was lost either to destruction or capture, and the population reduced by millions or perhaps tens of millions (maybe someone else knows more specifically) who were either killed in the fighting, fled abroad, or came under Drapoel occupation.

On the bright side, I think there's been substantial international aid, and Da'Khiem broke with Beijing and Portmeirion, which earlier stopped military aid to Dra-pol, making it look quite isolated by comparrison.

Less encouraging is what's happening in Dra-pol, where Hotan and the Kurosite government has fled into exile in Lyong and the more radical Suloists have returned to power. They have started forced de-urbanisation, even in Seoul, and -though news isn't getting out of Dra-pol so nobody really knows much- people are being worked to death en masse in some attempt to create self-sufficiency and do away with foreign influence.

I think I've still got a map hosted, though it'll be out of date since one supposes that the Suloists aren't calling cities by names such as Hotanang anymore.

Found it-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/Drapolmap.jpg

TBF, you are corrrect, all of Egypt is part of UE.

It is? Oh, well, that simplifies things for me!

Anyway, Valinon, welcome. Ah, hrm. I'm not sure what threads to point you at, first. We should look back into getting an archive or something, eh? Did one ever get off the ground, and I just paid it no attention?

It is? Oh, well, that simplifies things for me!

Anyway, Valinon, welcome. Ah, hrm. I'm not sure what threads to point you at, first. We should look back into getting an archive or something, eh? Did one ever get off the ground, and I just paid it no attention?

Yes, I think someone along the way did, now just have to find it.

Wow, LRR, it seems you are never satisfied with India :P

Hey, at least I've only jumped continents once!

And what would you do, sitting on the third largest nation on earth with a military that Spain, of all places, could destroy and an economy that's slowly being edged out of the top ten by Mexico and Canada? At least Hindustan's poverty will make more sense in this set-up.

Hey, hey! Don't underestimate Spain! Spain is the fastest growing nation in the European Union, one of the main participants of the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Leopard A5, and the user of the very advance G36E! They're also one of the nations pouring the most money into the technology sector.

Hey, hey! Don't underestimate Spain! Spain is the fastest growing nation in the European Union, one of the main participants of the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Leopard A5, and the user of the very advance G36E! They're also one of the nations pouring the most money into the technology sector.

I don't think you really can underestimate Spain. What's there is there.

Well, at least Spain hasn't fought a proper war in modern history. Hindustanis have...experience! And a Lee-Enfield No.4 or Bren can kill you just as dead as a G-36.

Hindustan could be wicked powerful and mighty, but what would be the fun in that?

Onto more pertainant matters:


Yeah, it would be great to have an ROK again. Although I think you might find Dra-pol rather more introspective than usual at this period in time.

The newest Korean Peninsula thread is this:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440114

Yea, you got me there. The last time we caught a murderer is when he turned himself in. :( It's an exageration, but two summers ago, I was watching the news and one of the most successful serial killers was 'caught' - he turned himself in. The police wasn't able to catch him. The last war Spain fought was in Iraq, and did pretty well, but I don't know if Iraq is recognized on AMW.

Yeah, in AMW Iraq is part of United Elias... possibly it doesn't even exist historically or internally... if there had been a war there, I think it's safe to say that the Spanish military wouldn't have got out in one piece. Not that it would have been alone in that.


South Dalania, nice to see you. I assume you know that AMW is independent from the mainstream, and using real-life populations as a base. I just want to confirm that while we have absolutely no problem with people playing both in AMW and outside it, the one does not influence the other, you know? Anyway, if that's fine, welcome back!

I don't mind the loss of territory at all, in fact I think it provides an excellent base for RPing and rebuilding from the ground up and it provides more history for the record (I'm also RPing a twenty year old struggle for independence with Banduria which would account for some of the destruction of the infrastructure). I don't know how I'm going to work the nation's name change, but I'll figure something out.

Thanks for the welcome back guys. Looking forward to some great RP's.

Welcome aboard!

LRR>> Sounds like an interesting change. Expect the Commonwealth to try and make friends with some of the more authoritarian parts of India, now ;)

So, any objections to my little scheme?

*Looks sheepishly in BG's direction*

I RP'ed as Dra-pol's "south of the DMZ" counterpart back in the day (my nation was South Dalania) and I actually had a lot of fun doing so. Obviously since my nation was deleted for inactivity :headbang:, my claim to the region is probably nullified as of now (given I realize the territory probably isn't even open) but if it is, I wouldn't mind taking the geographical role again.

If not I'll just settle for leeching off the culture and ethnicity of the Korean peninsula without staking a land claim :D


Um, there were some things that happened quite awhile ago, and you should maybe know.

LRR and I took to co-playing the ROK government for quite awhile, and that has just never really been changed.
This was to play the various pressures on ROK, as Quinntonia pours more and more resources into influencing ROK, and seeing as ROK in RL is often called the "most Christian country" in the world, its fairly reasonable to say that they are successful, at least to a limited degree.

(before someone comes back with the census numbers that say that the population of ROK in RL is only around 25% CHristian, whereas someplace like the US claims closer to 85%, let it be known that thelargest Christian Church in the world is in Souel, and that 25% represents a very commited group of believers, whereas in places like the US, there is massive nominalism. People claim to be Christians and never see the inside of a cjurcjh except for marriages or funerals and so on. In science and psychology it is called "distortion of self-report.")

Anyhoo, though LRR nominally controlled the nation after we had an AMW election, and I even have the list for the breakdown of which of controlled each department in the government cabinet and so, if you want I will send it to you, he has since almost completely pulled out and asked me to continue to speak for ROK. This has not had to happen very often as Dra-pol hasn't gone all "invady" lately, but there you are.

In the interum, there were some developments, and Quinnotnia took the ROK militray under its wing, with full supply and financial support, as well as training in every area.

This is coupled with a very large military complex that was built when LRR was still running the government that includes 50,000 ex-pat Nepalese Royalist fighters that are being supported by Quinntonia, with their families (another 140,000 people-non-combatents), in return for the promise that they will fight to defend ROK if it should come time, they are supported by a large Quinntonian fighter jet contingent (85 planes+ support aircraft and choppers) and two Heavy Armoured Divisions (20,000 men each and 600-800 peices of armour) and an Airborne Elite Division (20,000 men+ planes to drop 2,000 men every eight hours into combat zones) and this is in addition to support personal (cooks, mechanics, medics, prayer warriors, etc.=45,000).
So, as you can see, there is a significant amount of Quinnotnian militray presense in ROK, though by the terms of the agreement, we are not allowed to mix with the local population at all, and are confined to the base that we have leased. This means that we have pretty much moved in and built a city, with facilities, schools and hospitals for 295,000+ people.

This was supposed to make it possible for the ROK to counter-attack with Quinntonian support if they should ever come under fire again.

Now this is pretyy old stuff, and the Nepalese nation doesn't even exist anymore, but it has been pretty heavily Rped at several times in the past.

What do we want to do with this?

WWJD
Amen.

I don't mind the updates at all, it's been a long time since I RPed for the ROK like you said and if I'm stepping over someone here, I'll gladly cease RPing the South and let you guys do your thing.

I didn't mean to inadvertently hijack control of the region from anyone else so my apologies if I have.

As for a solution to all of it, I'm perfectly open to anything either Quinntonian Dra-pol or any other other nations with interests in the region want to discuss or propose. I'm not going to base my claims on previous RP's nor am I going to put up a big stink about it, so this is entirely up to what you guys feel will be most conducive to keeping everything going smooth.

I don't mind the updates at all, it's been a long time since I RPed for the ROK like you said and if I'm stepping over someone here, I'll gladly cease RPing the South and let you guys do your thing.

I didn't mean to inadvertently hijack control of the region from anyone else so my apologies if I have.

As for a solution to all of it, I'm perfectly open to anything either Quinntonian Dra-pol or any other other nations with interests in the region want to discuss or propose. I'm not going to base my claims on previous RP's nor am I going to put up a big stink about it, so this is entirely up to what you guys feel will be most conducive to keeping everything going smooth.


No, I am excited to see someone playing the nation, I just wanted to say that this is where we are, this is what has been happening, can we wrok together?

TG me and we'll talk without cluttering up this thread.

WWJD
Amen.

Anyways I can control Denmark as well?

Hey Germany, Id support your claim: but to balance out the effect of that, I think Belgium should become a French protectorate. Not a province of France, but an independant nation with a Bourbon King who is a vassal to Louis-Auguste. I have been trying to hint at this for some time, and I think France deserve a friendly buffer state against Germany. Doubtless, the Belgians themselves, and the Walloons already eager no doubt, would wish to join with France as its cultural brother to defend themselves against a blatantly Prussian Government.

We have a Netherlands, and now Germany wants Denmark...I see precedant for that. But let Belgium become a monarchy and ally with France. Its perfectly logical under the AMW circumstances, and in the Ancien Regime Belgium was a client state of the Bourbon Empire.

I have a whole RP lined up for it.

I'm not going to approve either unless I see a legitimate RP reason for it...I don't want countries going around and annexing other countries just to add a scalp to their belt.

France seems legitimate---it's a buffer state and could be interesting in terms of future German/French tensions. But what do you plan to do with Denmark, DK?

I'm nervous about it all, but I suck at saying no.

The thing is, it sets a tone in the world (if we stop thinking AMW for a moment and consider this our world, the world). Is this a world of such bare-faced competition and expansion, are we in the midst of an historic changing age, or is it all just business as usual?

When thinking about what your nation could do to expand its power, do not think the rest of the world static. If Germany, rightist and involving itself in Asia, siezes Denmark, will Beth Gellert, enduring a surge of political fury, be emboldened to stamp on a neighbouring Indian rightist state and gobble its resources? If France makes a vassal of Belgium, will the Yugoslavs sink further into a siege mentality and sieze Albania's moderate oil reserves?

I don't know. I'm struggling to keep pace with all the current RPs, but maybe that's just my problem.

Of course BG the AMW world is much more respectivley dogmatic than the real world, and has shown itself more than capable of backing up that dogmatism. Also, I suspect that in the AMW lens the first century of the new millenium would be one of the greatest contential periods in history.

I would just like to point out that under the Bourbons France split Algeria more than in half with the Roiks, and jettisoned French Polynesia, maintaining only New Caledonia. And I even vanished Ft. St. Louis in Al-Ahzad following Al-Ahzads departure. Its not about raw territory, its about territory becoming important. I could have cared less about Belgium months ago, but with Germany rising, you better believe Louis-Auguste will insist on it being a buffer state, and friendly to Versailles.

I think BG has every right to stamp out a right wing neighbor. After all, isnt that what your constituents demand? As for the Slavs, likewise dont they have every right to engage in a siege mentality? especially after I get through with Aidarov...

As to German Denmark and French Belgium, I really am of a split mind. Culturally, I suppose Belgium is more French than Denmark is German. However, both states have a history of independence -- the Danish resistance to the Germans, for instance, or the Belgian split from the Netherlands / refusal to allow the French to fortify their border at any point in history...

I'm going to have to decide this one with the ultimate arbiter of all European questions...which is, of course, the board game Diplomacy!

Let's see... a German F Kiel -> Denmark is a pretty tame opening, which can also be seen as mildly anti-Russian (many tsars have torn at their hair at the following F Denmark -> Sweden), pro-French, and neutral-British.

A French A Paris -> Picardy and A Marsielles -> Burgundy (followed, of course, by A Burgundy -> Belgium supported by A Picardy or vice versa) is the only way France can bring two units to bear on Belgium by the second turn. Throw in a F Brest -> English Channel and the French have three units, compared to a possible two for Germany (F Kiel -> Holland, A Munich -> Ruhr) or two for France and one for Britain (F London -> English Channel bounces F Brest and F Edinburgh -> North Sea). This move can be seen as, at best, rabidly anti-German and extremely anti-British (it also makes Italian players wet their pants at the prospect of grabbing Spain or Portugal (or even Marseilles), which are usually France's first conquests so early in the game. Italian players don't get to wet their pants very often, so perhaps we should let them?).

Just where the hell I was going with this, I've quite forgotten. I just really like that game. <.< >.>

...

At any rate, I'd like to ask whether it would be all right if I had less territory? I've been going over my reasoning behind the El Salvador / Mannicagua unification and, frankly, it's poppycock. Would it be possible for me to retcon that El Salvador was ever part of Mannicagua and just have Nicaragua? (that would give me pop 5,628,517 in case anyone's counting)

Well, NG, would your invasion of Belgium be a direct response to Germany's invasion of Denmark? All in the same context as the Soviet Union's invasion of Finland and the Baltic Republics because of Germany's invasion of Poland. If that's the case, I really don't see the use of invading Belgium from a military standpoint. Belgium is already a buffer zone between you and Germany, and going by past history, Belgium would not readily accept German allegiance in exchange for an attack on France - in fact, from past experience, Germany would simply turn Belgium into an enemy. With that in mind, would it not be more profitable to begin the developement of close relations with Belgium, than to outright invade it, and thus gain a volite region that can more likely work against you, than with you?

In terms of Belgium not accepted French defenses , I think the Belgians would have learned from their mistakes, no? They were very cooperative in the First World War, and reasons to not really work along with Paris was to not give an appearance of belligerence against Germany - obviously, that backfired. So, I really don't see a Belgium allied to Germany any way you look at it, and the most realistic happening is a Belgian alliance with France in the even of German agression - [i]especially if Germany invades Denmark.

In fact, I think it would be more profitable in terms of the supression of German military dominance to oppose a German invasion of Denmark [unless Germany already invaded and annexed, and I'm not really up to date with current events on AMW]. Although it would be rather expensive, it would be less expensive than an all out invasion of Belgium, which is not a 'push aside' conquest - in fact, they work with some of the better assault rifles in design [as opposed to the French], and work with an overall better tank [the Leopard A5 is on par, or better, than the LeClerc - although the LeClerc is a very good tank]. Although Belgium could not possible stave off a French assault in the long run, I suspect they would provide quite a resistance and it would turn into a bloodbath, including the loss of many French personnel, and possibly Spanish personnel, better used stopping Germany before it became too powerful [a mistake committed during the Second World War, remember].

Well, in all actuality, I'm not very learned on what this discussion is actually about. But, I heard something about Belgium and Denmark, and offered that point of view. So, what exactly is the deal?

One thing that needs clarifying - Is this IC (an invasion) or OOC (A map redrawing with no RP)?

Heya Mac. I dont know who brought up invasion here.

I said setting up a client Kingdom, which is more a union than invasion by any terms. Belgium would keep its national identity and goverment...its outlined in my previous post.

Let me repeat: I have no plans whatsoever to invade Belgium with a military at all. Never. France may colonize thrid world nations, but France treats fellow European countries with respect.

Lavrageria doesnt count.

"Lav doesn't count."

That's cold right there, NG. XD

What I think no one is thinking about is having Belgium's ever present proctector the UK. Since from what I know in WWI the British Continental Force had a nice time fighting along side the Belgiums and in WWII it was Britain at the lead promising Belgium's neutrality. Now with Denmark, once again using my ever shallow wisdom and knowledge, I would find it very (and I mean very) hard to belive Denmark will ever ever let herself be taken over by Germany. Historically Denmark has oposed Germany at every turn and Germany has happily agreed by invading Denmark everytime Germany goes for world domination.

My half a penny,

Last time Denmark surrendered in four hours. :(

In Rl Belgium is getting very close to france from what i can see (well they have basically transfered all thier lead in fighter training to french bases and retired thier Alpha jets IIRC. They do make a lot of use of fench ranges and i'm not sure how much they use the likes of the UK North sea/atlantic ranges (which brigns an interesting questions, do the Fench actually have acess to a fully instrumented air to air manouvering range in AMW? it would be difficult to biuld one on mainland europe due to the huge amount of mobile phpne radiation, so are they biulding one in Algeria?)).

At any rate, I'd like to ask whether it would be all right if I had less territory? I've been going over my reasoning behind the El Salvador / Mannicagua unification and, frankly, it's poppycock. Would it be possible for me to retcon that El Salvador was ever part of Mannicagua and just have Nicaragua? (that would give me pop 5,628,517 in case anyone's counting)

I don't see why not. Just Nicaragua for you, then. Shall the name of Mannicagua be maintained?


As to the other things, well, we should remember that this is a new world that does not include all the nations of the one we know. It is entirely possible that Denmark never existed in AMW: Tanzania never did, nor, I think, Jamaica, for example. I rather think that we need more nations that don't adhere to real-world boundaries, languages, cultures, names. Somebody should come and take Southern Portugal and Tunisia and call it the Katlantine Empire or something like that, made by a sub-set of Semitic sailors at their height in the year 300 or so, you know?

I have to get something to eat, but I'll adjust Iansisle's claim when I come back, and meanwhile people can try to figure-out what DK's nation really represents, and whether the Belgians have any interest in feudalism in the C21st.

I just think tha if anyone is going to be adding territory to their claim, it should be done IC and through RP. However, I should probably mention that while I really have no interest in Denmark, except for the fact that they are Lutheran, Belgium and the Netherlands are another story entirely, Quinntonia has been historically militarilly supportive of that region, though indirectly. Your biggest concern would be TBF, but if they go in supporting Belgium, Quinntonia would be right there. And really, if they supported Denmark, we would be right there as well. So, you had better talk to TBF in any event, and I would suggest that you do it as a thread.

WWJD
Amen.

I don't see why not. Just Nicaragua for you, then. Shall the name of Mannicagua be maintained?

Indeed it shall. Ten million thanks. I want it to be stressed that Mannicagua =/= Nicaragua, even if they're geographically the same region. However, the fact that Nicaragua is the least densely populated Central American country whereas El Salvador is the most dense...well, it just wasn't a good match. =/

My greeting!

Good day, everyone! Al Khals, here, I know you can see that, but it would have been easy to forget. I apologise for what will likely be a long post, but I think that I have saved up a bit of credit after so much quiet!

My situation

Lately, with great Al Khali inactivty, I have been thinking about the future. I was, a little while ago, drifting back into ordinary NS, but just today as I looked around the forums for a role play in which to get involved, I found nothing of interest in half a dozen pages, and lost heart. It does not look as if the wider world has anything to offer Al Khals.

However, the Al Khals that lingers in AMW is a relic of almost pre-AMW times in SSA and its earlier forms. My nation was never really supposed to be Southern African, but I found the region had some good players willing to interact in a civil fashion (surprisingly rare in the other regions I'd visited), and so Al Khals adapted. I'm afraid that carrying that over into AMW was a mistake, because I should have seen this wider group as an opportunity to put Al Khals back where it should be.

I am thinking about starting again. Really, all that Al Khals has done in AMW is to fight Lusaka in a brief stalemate of a conflict, and that was really more of an SSA than AMW affair, I think you'll agree? Then, in some frustration, I wrecked Al Khals.

My case begins

SO, I am here today to consult on the possibility of a fresh start. The old Al Khals was but a tiny part of Tanzania, and could easily be absorbed into Lusaka without fuss.

The war can be forgotten as pre-AMW, or, I thought, the death of empire for my new Al Khals. Al Khals-proper would be based further north in North Africa or the Middle East, and the Tanzanian territory would be all that remained of an empire that once had trade posts all along the African coast. Roycelandian and European empires would have reduced ours to just that outpost, and the Al Khali attack on Lusaka was an ill-advised attempt to re-take Zanzibar now that the Roycelandians were gone. It failed, and, as a result, confidence in Al Khals in the southeast Tanzanian outpost finally collapsed. The result would be joining the rebellious United African Republic, the people seeing peaceful annexation as no less effective a way of rejoining their kin in Zanzibar.

Would that be acceptable to everyone?

I know that a lot of North Africa and the Middle East is taken, but I am sure that I can find a comfortable place.

My nation

It is important to Al Khals to be an oil producer, though I recognise and happily accept that it will never rival United Elias, and maybe not even Neo-Anarchos.

Of course it shall, if this all works out at all, be based in North Africa and/or the Middle East.

I don't intend to make it a superpower, though I do hope to be a bit more noteworthy on the national stage.

The national would be called The Al Khali Arab Republic (A.K.A. Al Khals, A.K.A. Al Khal, A.K.A. Al Jumhuriyah al Arabiyah as Khalsiyah), and known informally to many as the Republic of the Canal Arabs... the landscape shall be scarred with an ancient canal system.

It would be a dictatorship or authoritarian sham of a democracy, with a per capita GDP almost certainly rather below US$10,000.

My options (I am thinking as I type, I apologise!):

Tunisia and Libya would give between fifteen and sixteen million people and almost forty billion barrels of oil. Unfortunately it may prove too difficult to unpack Libyan baggage, especially in respect of its past importance to the Indian communists.

Syria, is this free? Just over eighteen million people but only two and a half billion barrels of oil. In some ways it would be almost ideal, in others I'm just not sure.

Saudi Arabia/Oman/UAE, I could surely do something, here? I believe that northern Saudi Arabia is within United Elias, but some (possibly the Rub'al Khali, of all places?) remains outside? I can not remember whether Oman has any significance, nor the UAE. Obviously, the Rub'al Khali is mostly devoid of humanity, but parts of it have vast oil reserves, and I don't know which of these (likely the northern Ghawwar field) are claimed by UE. Likely this claim would end up with something puny like six million people at its maximum extent, but would probably have well over a hundred billion barrels of oil in reserve.

Iran offers possibilities, a big place with nearly seventy million people and a hundred and thirty billion barrels of oil, but of course it would mean pretty well blowing the Persian race off the map if I took it all. I would probably want just part of it, and then comes all sorts of problems figuring out how many people and what oil falls into my share, and the question of whether we'd ever find another player for the leftover scraps of Iran.

Oh, help me! Perhaps a maritime empire now consisting of Syria and Tunisia? Too many ideas, too many problems!

Hi Al Khals, great to see you back.

Rather than you simply taking a bit of territory and starting from scratch which would be very disruptive and require changes to the history of the AMW Middle East not to mention breaking up ongoing RPs, what about taking over where somebody left off, there are two nations where players have disappeared that might be eminently suitable, and either of which I am sure you could have, namely Sabir (Lebanon, Syria, and the Turkish provinces of Hatay, Gaziantep, Şanlıurfa, Kilis, Mardin, Osmaniye, Diyarbakir, Adiyaman, Batman, Sirnak, Siirt) and Al-Ahzad (Yemen and Oman.) You could then either have internal revolution to change the government to one of your liking, or simply continue where the other player left off.

Start by having a quick read of these threads pertaining to these two nations and see if either takes your fancy. Don't worry about too many facts and things, because I can telegram you with background information if you wish:


Sabir:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=391477

Al Ahzad:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=385998

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=428145

As for the UAE, this was originally controlled by the current TBF player under the name of the Trucial States (name of the UAE until the 1960s in RL I believe) and I am sure he would allow you to take that over, but in my view these other two present more interesting RP opportunities. One correction, all of the territory currently claimed by Saudi Arabia in RL is part of UE including much of the Rub Al Khali, but the border between Al-Ahzad and UE is nebulous and largely not officially demarked. Due to RP necessity I tookover RPing Tunisia, which elected a pro-UE government and in some senses has become a puppet state. If you really wanted to takeover Tunisia, that would be fine but I would ask that you do not start again but from continuity's sake, continue from where I left off, and I can provide you with that information should you request it.

Either way, it would be interesting to once again have another independently controlled Arab nation to RP with, so your return is most welcome.

Hm, well, since last night I've mostly been thinking that Tunisia and Syria might have been best, but this is going to be hard to work out, it seems.

Al Khals is supposed to be quite ancient in origin, with its own (barely) distinct Arab race, dialect, and brance of Islam- nothing radically different to things existing in reality, but different none the less. Plus the ancient canal systems used for both enduring transport and irrigation.

I think that maybe Tunisia and Syria have the waterways to make some of that possible, as did the little Tanzanian outpost.

I wonder if it would be going too far to seek some sort of compromise. Again, I am typing as I think. First idea, working here (I'm in no rush, and might end up going with idea fifteen or something).

The Al Khali Arabs of many centuries ago went, at some point, from nomadic wandering to settling, possibly along the Euphrates maybe near Lake Al Asad, or the Orontes... actually, maybe the latter, putting them close to the sea and in a relatively small part of modern Syria. There they began to get a reputation as hydrological engineers before turning to the seas and establishing an empire built on trade, which was never a military power on par with the greats.
At their height, the Al Khalis would have controlled territory in Syria, Tunisia, and Tanzania, probably sharing Syria especially with the likes of the Ottoman empire, who would presumably have been pretty dominant over the Al Khali rulers. I would assume some historical waxing and waning of power and territorial extent in the Middle East especially.

Zanzibar would have been lost to the Roycelandians during their construction of Roycelandian East Africa, with the southeast of Tanzania being kept until modern times.

Tunisia possibly would have been taken by an unusually vigarous Al Khali effort in place of the Ottoman one that recovered its coastal cities from Spain, and the Al Khalis would rule instead of the Beys.

Possibly the Al Khalis in Syria made the mistake of siding with the Ottoman Empire in WWI, perhaps due to an obsolete tradition of viewing the Turks as the big neighbour that had to be pleased, and their defeat is ultimately what leads to the rise of Al Sabir, unless it has a seriously conflicting history that still matters? Al Khalis would have been dismissively annexed into the French mandate along with some Ottoman territory. Sabir (and I mean no offence to the player) would have been a fairly artificial and fleeting entity that tried to make a single nation out of various Ottoman territories and the old Al Khali homeland.

In the mid C20th, with a new state of Sabir, and Zanzibar and Dar es Salaam under Roycelandian domination, and Tunisia stumbling alone out of French rule, Al Khals would have been a sickly, fragmentary shadow, mostly alive in a small Tanzanian enclave and a series of old nationalist movements in Tunisia and Sabir, with few friends in the world.

United Elias was then easily able to manipulate the Tunisians as required, culminating in the recent government, but the Al Khalis continued strong efforts to restore themselves. Omar Qottar would be probably born in Sabir, but went to Tanzania, over-threw the old Amir, and tried to recover Zanzibar from the heirs to the Roycelandians (Lusaka), but failed due to lack of foreign support.

That would bring us to now, with him coming back, and perhaps we could start with the break-up of Sabir? Possibly along ethnic lines, with the Al Khalis trying desperately to take this last chance to restore their civilisation... presumably (I intended originally to seek positive ties with Baghdad, but if this all works out I don't think that'll happen!) UE not receiving the Al Khali case too well as they revolt in Tunisia, too. Er, although I suppose it's not up to me to say, and UE may decide it's just as well to back the Al Khalis. That doesn't matter to the initial set-up, I suspect.

So, erm, to anyone interested, how much of that works, and how much needs modification or is outright unworkable?

Excellent to see you back, Al-Khals.

I think the Yemen/Oman option might be good, since Syria is rather landlocked and surrounded by UE.

But your first idea is fine by me.

By the way, I need more opinions on my revised India option, if you guys would be so kind...

Fascinating history. So, are you asking for Tunisia and Syria then? That would be possible, as they both have Med access. In any case, I am sure your welcome to whatever you choose, you see like you more than know your stuff.

Youll find The Kingdom of Algeria a quiet neighbor, its Bourbon King satisfied (likewise Versailles) with gains already achieved. Maybe Ill build one of those testing bases with mobile radiation that Strath mentioned, what was that again Strath? I could hold a candle to your technological database.

Itll be fascinating to have another Arab power. Also fascinating to see how UE will react.

BTW UE, can we just assume that the Tunisian Campaign fell apart, and the Algeria retreated back to Royal Line? Thatd leave room for plenty of intrigue and border skirmishes. I posted something not too long ago about the Algerian Royal Army forming Bell Huey Air Cav units and raiding a rebel base in the Atlas's. And just a note, The Kingdom of Algeria is rougly the northern third of Algeria, but it contains 90% of the population, that vast coastal plain. It end in the south at Laghouat and Ft. St. Joan...so just basically line a ruler up with Laghouat and the Algerian 'slant' and youll have the border between the Bourbon Kingdom and the Roik Colony.

Ah, Syria has over one hundred miles of coastline/window-out-of-which-to-leap!

Sorry, yes, that all sounds okay to me, LRR. It might be nice to see a lot of conflict that will be kept going (since other players can't drop out on you) and should be easily infiltrated by interested foreign parties, such as BG perhaps via the Maoists, and Armand via his new shady so and sos and the, well, presumably vast lengths of little/corruptly-guarded rugged border.

You would be taking all of Pakistan and all of India that is not BG, ISAN, and the little states east of BG, yes? Oh, and Goa. If that sounds like I'm saying it's too much, I don't mean that, just making sure I understand.

Ah, bloody hell it does, Dra-pol you sly fox! And here I was thinking Lebanon went all the way to Turkey...

Speaking of Lebanon, that might make for some interesting action, what with all the Rafik Hariri being blown up. Of course, there's nothing saying Lebanon needs to be even nominally independent, or for it to exist at all...erm, I'm afraid I've lost my point.

Anyway, thanks for the endorsement. That's exactly what I had in mind. The Biharis, I think, might be more than a little bit influenced by Kurosite thinking, so if there are any members of Hotan's entourage particularly skilled in internal security matters or rebel-rousing across the border, they might be in for significant employment opportunities.

*Cues "Career Opportunities"*


They offered me, Hozaro offered me the the the chop
They said I'd better take everything I got
Do you wanna make tea on a Sithin street?
Do you wanna be, do you really wanna work the docks?

Career opportunities are the ones that never knock
Every job they offer you is to keep you out the stocks
Career opportunity, the ones that never knock

I hate the airforce an' I hate the U.P.A
I don't wanna go fighting those Hamhung wackjobs
I hate that Arslan Buryunz
And I won't start rebellions for you

Tank driver....maintainance man....bombing inspector
I don't understand
They're gonna have to introduce conscription
They're gonna have to take away my prescription
If he wanna get me making toys
If Sulo wanna get me, well, I got no choice

Careers
Careers
Careers

Ain't never gonna knock

Hell, we might employ some of them for Hotan's suicidal let's-launch-a-counter-coup invasion, and promise to ...send them a few Scuds once he's back in power! ;)

Well, I must say that I'm pleased by the positive reactions thus far.

At the moment, yes, the Tunisia & Syria thing is my favourite, but I think that it is mostly with UE that I have to make sure of agreement.

Once that's worked out, Al Khals can get back to being unpopular!

I must say from an RP standpoint I'd rather not lose Tunisia, as this seems to be a point of future 'interaction', for want of a better word, with the French in Algeria. Secondly, I think that a nation with two distinct, culturally diverse territories separated by over a thousand miles is not the most plausible. I really don't want to appear difficult but I think I would rather you claimed one or the other, preferably Syria and Lebanon as well if you wish.

Regarding Denmark... I'm Danish, by the way.

In the real world, Denmark now has strong economic and diplomatic ties to Germany; and I don't think either would ever consider waging war on the other. These bonds were forged in part by the European Union(both nations are strong advocates of EU economic policy) and in part by the common enemy of the Soviet Union.

However, AMW history is different, and they may not have great ties any longer?

Yeah, wel if we all going to get into an annexing mood..... What about the Sudentland, I have been wanting the southern half (mostly since the top half would be un-keepable) for the longest time. So I am asking the worl community to let the repressed people's of the Sudentland to have elections and follow Austria. For more info on Austria's stance visit the offsite forums (http://s9.invisionfree.com/NS_Modern_World/index.php?act=idx).

Well, they wouldn't be entirely different in AMW. I really don't think that it is as if a great deal has been invested in RPing Tunisia in respect of its full background and undertones, i mean, the Al Khalis would exist in Syria or at least the west of it, and would have replaced the Beys' arrival in Tunisia, but then to a large degree things would have proceeded as normal in Tunisia especially and to a degree in Syria.

With the Al Khali home in Syria absorbed into first the French mandate and then Sabir, Tunisia would have had no choice but to go it alone after independence from France, until the pro-UE government was installed. As yet I don't really see why that would conflict, however, with large popular sentiment in Tunisia and Syria being behind Al Khali restoration. Of course it would be opposed in Tunisia by the Berber, and in Syria by the Sabir regime and by the Turks, Armenians, and possibly non-Al Khali Syrians, and in both by United Elias, but that bit would be represented in RP.


Still... while the old four million person size of the Tanzanian outpost is rather less than I would like to play now -especially in such an active and dangerous theatre as the Med, where a state of four million would be nothing better than a pawn- I have wondered if maybe the, what, 28.5million(?) combined population of Syria and Tunisia is perhaps a little more than I'm aiming for.

I don't quite know what to do. Must make a decision! I would just go for Syria, but I don't want to feel like I'm RPing, well, Syria, you know?

Okay, I haven't thought this throught, but... what if I go for Syria and possibly a single town/city on the Tunisian coast?

Al Khali history would be something along these lines:

1) ancient Al Khalis establish themselves between the Syrian coast and river Orontes
2) over time they become a seafaring trading people
3) they made the Tanzanian coast their stronghold
4) they helped the Ottoman Empire to regain the Tunisian cities (many having been conquered by Spain) for Islam
5) being widely dispersed, they were unable to prevent the loss of most of Tanzania to the Roycelandians*
6) their Tunisian holdings, independent from the Beys, wouldn't have run-up the same debts and would have been free from France, Britain, and Italy's take-over of Tunisian finances
7) Al Khalis back the Ottomans again in WWI making themselves unpopular with other Arabs
8) Al Khali Syria is joined with Ottoman holdings in the French mandate after defeat in WWI, Tunisian holding/s and remaining Tanzanian province keep the civilisation alive but disperate
9) Sabir created on end of French mandate, Al Khali Syria remains bound to larger state with non-Al Khali-lead government
10) Sabir-born Omar Qottar travels to Tanzania to start an out-of-the-way restoration, but fails horribly and has to flee
11) Modern day: Tunisian holdings and ex-pats from Tanzanian enclave all that remain until break-up of Sabir.

*Obviously, going with bases on the Med rather than Oman/UAE/Yemen or such, linking the rest of Al Khals to Tanzania in the days before the Suez is a little difficult. It could be that the Al Khalis used to have some outpost on what would now be UE shores, or, I think more likely, the empire was just a very unusual thing. Holdings at Tanzania and Syria/Tunisia wouldn't have been able to directly support one another, and their union would be cultural and political but not direct or military, if you follow my thinking. As such there was really nothing the Al Khalis in the Med. could do to prevent the spread of Roycelandian force and influence.

Long story short: I would start with probably one town or city on Tunisia's coast, which, to be honest, I want mostly to support the character of an historical maritime trade empire, and it doesn't have to be something big like Tunis or Sfax. Either of those would do, of course, or Gabes, Sousse, or Bizérte. It would traditionally I think have been an Al Khali Emirate equal to Zanzibar.

The last Tanzanian holdings would be crumbling and absorbing back into Lusaka.

Sabir would be fracturing, perhaps the Turkish provinces wanting independence or union with the Ottomans, but mainly I imagine the trigger being that the Al Khali Arabs are not the ones in power, and they're not happy about it.

One Tunisian town (to be decided) and revolution in Sabir with my intention being to take Syria and possibly Lebanon, but we'll see how it goes? Lots of Christians in Lebanon, and I can't imagine UE staying out of the whole affair.

I'm sorry that this has gone on so long, I want to make Al Khals a proper upstanding AMW nation!

Sounds good to me. I assume that the Al-Khali position regarding the Ottomans would be one of wary neutrality - or at least, that's what the Ottoman position would be. It'll be nice to have another player in the Middle East - we've been slightly empty since I went into "tag" mode and Al Ahzad and Sabir disappeared from NS.

Pop wise, I'd suggest, yah, 20, 30, mill, seems right. I'd take the lower number, just to be on the safe side.

Well, I suppose that the fairest thing to say, Gupta, would be, "It depends..."!

If Syria does become the base of the Al Khali state as suggested, it would probably happen amongst some turmoil as Sabir collapses. A lot would depend on how that all played out, and how the Ottomans reacted to the instability on their border. That reaction itself, I imagine, might depend on how United Elias reacted to the same disturbances.

At the moment, my thinking is that the Al Khali authorities had historically been very respectful of the Ottomans, and generally supportive, but it was because they felt that they had to, and it was often less than highly popular and ultimately unwise. I can't really say for sure what our stance may be after a recovery.

That's just how exciting Al Khals can be! Hopefully.

Besides, you may have a chance to re-take some territory, since Al Khals will probably not end up including the Turkish territory covered by Sabir.

Oh, and population will be defined by the territory I end up with. If it's Syria and a Tunisian city, it will probably be close to nineteen million. If it includes Lebanon, more like twenty two million. But none of this is clear.

More words from me!

I am going to place a claim on Syria, though may RP the establishment of it in the collapse of Sabir.

I have been dissuaded from claiming on Tunisian territory, and was agreeing to instead take a Libyan city to serve as the outpost that endures while Syria spent most of the C20th under first France and then Sabir, but I've just had another thought. Well, Malta. Malta was conquered by Arabs in the C9th, and more than two centuries of Arab rule of course had a major impact on the nation. Perhaps those Arabs in AMW could be the Al Khalis from western Syria. However, they would be more enduring with vigarous support from their homeland.

I still think that taking all of Malta and keeping it as an Arab/Muslim outpost for more than a thousand years, taking it out of British association would be a bit much, and there would be a long history of invasions and diplomatic deals over the islands, featuring the Sicilian Normans, the Aragonese, the Spaniards and the Knights of Malta. But Arab influence would be more enduring.

My thinking is that perhaps Malta Island would follow more or less its real history, while Gozo would remain Al Khali, and Comino would probably have gone back and forth between Arab and European hands.

So, ultimately, would there be any objection to my claiming Gozo (Għawdex) [67sq.km and a popuation approaching 30,000] as the bastion on which independent Al Khali civilisation held-out, and Syria [185,180sq.km and a population just under 18.5million]?

It won't quite make Al Khals the oil producer on the scale I'd imagined, but it would certainly suffice. Gozo would start out independent, while the Al Khalis would have to fight or politically position themselves to become the new masters of Sabir, with the OOC assumption that they'd not end up getting the Turkish provinces (for one reason or another, I just don't want them). Lebanon could be left up in the air, so to speak, and we'll see what happens in RP?

Hopefully, this will work, and I can finally stop bothering you all over it!

[Throws up hands in frustration] Bah! Make up your mind already! Just take it already, take it ALL! [Throws Risk-like board with AMW territories on it at Al-Khals] BAAAAH! [Runs of, screaming loudly]

Hey now, I've tried several times, but found that things don't work too well for other players. There's no need to get shirty!




[Quietly slips a couple of Al Khali-coloured cannons on to Nigeria tile]

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=463126

India Unite!

Hey now, I've tried several times, but found that things don't work too well for other players. There's no need to get shirty!




[Quietly slips a couple of Al Khali-coloured cannons on to Nigeria tile]

Heh, just kidding man. It's just taking so freakin' long! :p

[Ships in several Holy League Cannons from Wingert's Empire, glares menacingly while holding die]

African map questions!


Algeria

I'm trying to put in the approximate border between French and Roycelandian territory.
This (large) map (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/algeria_rel01.jpg) I think is fairly clear, for reference.
Nova Gaul, I think, said that Laghouat is at the end of France's territory? Very far north, then? Where else does the border travel/start/end?

Mozambique

With help from Strathdonia's shaded map I've added a lot to the area, but it is starting to look seriously ugly :)

Anyway, that's not the point, since I'm not asking Mozambique to unify for the sake of catographic beautification. Mozambique is split, is it not, into the Strathdonian occupied, Free State, and Commonwealth authorities? My main question: is the Commonwealth in pieces? Strathdonia's map makes it appear that the extreme north and south of Mozambique are in the Commonwealth, with the Free State and part of the occupied territory in between.

Is that correct, or have I misunderstood?

By the way, roughly 10% of Nigeria is Roycelandian owned. I need to work out the details with Royce first, but just to give you a heads up.

(Oh, and check your TGs. No hard feelings, eh...?)

Re: Algeria, it looks to me from that map that the border between French Algeria and Roycelandian Algeria would be the 28th Parallel (ie, 28 degrees North)- it bisects the country quite neatly, I notice...

African map questions!

Mozambique

With help from Strathdonia's shaded map I've added a lot to the area, but it is starting to look seriously ugly :)

Anyway, that's not the point, since I'm not asking Mozambique to unify for the sake of catographic beautification. Mozambique is split, is it not, into the Strathdonian occupied, Free State, and Commonwealth authorities? My main question: is the Commonwealth in pieces? Strathdonia's map makes it appear that the extreme north and south of Mozambique are in the Commonwealth, with the Free State and part of the occupied territory in between.

Is that correct, or have I misunderstood?

That is quite correct. Inconvenient, but true, and I suspect Maputo is still cursing itself for failing to decisively invade the Free State while it had the chance.

[Throws up hands in frustration] Bah! Make up your mind already! Just take it already, take it ALL! [Throws Risk-like board with AMW territories on it at Al-Khals] BAAAAH! [Runs of, screaming loudly]

Hey nothing wrong with that! After all, with Al-Khal's idea I get the rest of Turkey as well as (possibly) LEbanon. LEt the New Ottoman Empire Reign! No, I didn't say anything...umm..that was...UE! Yah, UE!

*slides a few Ottoman pieces onto Lebanon while point out of the window*

Hey nothing wrong with that! After all, with Al-Khal's idea I get the rest of Turkey as well as (possibly) LEbanon. LEt the New Ottoman Empire Reign! No, I didn't say anything...umm..that was...UE! Yah, UE!

*slides a few Ottoman pieces onto Lebanon while point out of the window*


Now that funny, it's going into my signature.

has anyone laid claim to the Baja California peninsula in Mexico?
if not can I take that? or even the whole of Mexico if possible

Gracias:D

has anyone laid claim to the Baja California peninsula in Mexico?
if not can I take that? or even the whole of Mexico if possible

Gracias:D


Telling from your post count you have no RP examples, and you failed to properly introduce a claim; I think that's a no go. Unless your a puppet of another player - if that, then nevermind!

Thats a fine map, BG. Royce, Id say the 28th parallel is a bit too far south. Id put the border between RSA and the KoA at the 30th parallel, that is to say find Beni Ounif in the west of Algeria on the map, and draw a line strait across.

Al Khals that sounds immenently reasonable, your claims. Welcome aboard. Ill have more up in a few days, I had a hellishly long week of work, with a horrible flu to compund the deal. Im barely able to type again now, and I dont have to be spoon fed buillion while I have acid like fever visions.

On that note, I will soon be RPing the victory of the WNP, Walloon Nationalist Party, and the victory of Francophone front runner Phillipe Legier. Now the pressure will be on for Belgium to unite with the mother Kingdom. After all, who gave the WNP money to win....itll be good mes amis.

NG, is the Yugoslavian spy game still on? Or did that just...die?

Its still on AC...were just waiting on YS to put something down; seems like its been a busy week for everybody.

NG, is the Yugoslavian spy game still on? Or did that just...die?

What Yugoslavian spy! Where! what! When! Austrian's are a little suspicious of Yugoslavian agression annexation. So just wondering in a big OOC way, what would happen if tomorrow you guys would see an Austrian flag flying from Prague?

French agents have been trying to kill President Aidarov, Prime Minister Gukov has been killed and the Holy League blamed/credited (though it was really a KLA operation), and the A-Team, well, I have no idea what they're up to, but I think they're all on the fast-track to deportation.

Austrian flag over Prague? Well, in and of itself we'd assume that some Austrian tourists were mucking about. If it were part of an invasion, I would seriously doubt that the Austrians would get to Prague so quickly, and wouldn't be absolutely certain that it wouldn't end with a Czech flag flying over Vienna!

Putting those doubts aside, well, Lav would almost certainly launch an invasion towards Graz in defence of the capital of the Slavic world (by which he means Prague), and probably end-up trying to use the conflict as a means to bringing the Czechs into his Pan-Slavic Socialist Federation after crushing Austria on two fronts.

Actually, I think that you should do it! :D

French agents have been trying to kill President Aidarov, Prime Minister Gukov has been killed and the Holy League blamed/credited (though it was really a KLA operation), and the A-Team, well, I have no idea what they're up to, but I think they're all on the fast-track to deportation.

Austrian flag over Prague? Well, in and of itself we'd assume that some Austrian tourists were mucking about. If it were part of an invasion, I would seriously doubt that the Austrians would get to Prague so quickly, and wouldn't be absolutely certain that it wouldn't end with a Czech flag flying over Vienna!

Putting those doubts aside, well, Lav would almost certainly launch an invasion towards Graz in defence of the capital of the Slavic world (by which he means Prague), and probably end-up trying to use the conflict as a means to bringing the Czechs into his Pan-Slavic Socialist Federation after crushing Austria on two fronts.

Actually, I think that you should do it! :D


Well having fun invading and dying would make this a lot more active but maybe I won't invade just for the sake of making this more interesting. Okay maybe just until we reach the end of the Sudentland and head into Central Crezch.

Hey! After some indecision I've concluded that this is the best thread to post in, right? I am interested in joining A Modern World, having come to the conclusion that my jokey idea of Depkazia and the big wide world of NationStates aren't going to work.

Who am I? Well, I came to NS a long time ago with the group of 'real life' and 'on-line' friends that founded Tiamat and later New Tiamat, and hung around a lot but, like most of the group, didn't really get into it. Only BG really lasted long-term [nod of recognition] and went on to better things. I tried, with one other friend, to revitalise things by going ancient-tech, but never had enough others to play with, and then my friend faded and I made an ill-advised venture into future-tech, but fell victim to gross ignorance on my part in the needed fields of science.

By then BG had quit New Tiamat, everyone else I knew was gone, and my nation was soon deleted for inactivity, though only when past five billion population [moment's silence]. Much RP, usually jokey as our other friends were never very... political, was lost to the old NS forums, off-site, and the regional message boards.

I think it was reading articles about some of history's more loopy autocrats that got me to try again, but I now realise with some regret that playing a joke nation just isn't a long term thing, so I want to try something slightly more serious. So here I am!



I'm not fully decided on what I'd do with Depkazia if I want it to actually last. I think that there's still a place for my crackpot autocrat and his beloved pet hippo, but don't know whether he's the long-term future of Depkazia. I would be prepared to steer the nation in a direction designed to fill any gaps, power vacuums, imbalance, or whatever other players may feel exists in AMW. I may know BG, but that doesn't for a second mean that Depkazia has to like them! I am aware of the powerblocs in AMW, but, of course, don't know other players' opinions on how the world fits together. If I get in, Depkazia is going to be probably on the poorer side and in many ways primitive, but I am prepared to align it, either immediately or after early RPs in which the loony dictator will feature and perhaps fall, with any ideologies in the game.

It could be a conventional secular capitalist democracy (though likely full of crime and corruption), since I gather that much of Europe is lost to that cause; a fascist bastion uniting everyone against it in loathing (hm, that might be fun!); or a monarchy/theocracy following a faith other than Christianity, so that there's more than one religious bloc at work in AMW and it doesn't end up a Christian vs. secularist cold war.

I've got my eye on Middle Asia according to the old Soviet definition: Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan (I'm told that Kazakhstan is once again Russian territory), which ammount to some forty-four million persons in population. I thought that sounded like a lot until I considered that neighbours include the Russian empire, Iran, and China (and, smaller, Afghanistan, unless that's part of something else, now).

What say you? A post-Soviet multi-party democracy replacing a headcase dictator in Central Asia, a fascist backlash to superpowers rising on two sides, or a kingdom under Islam or an invented new religion needed in AMW?

We'll need RP examples, of course.

I really like your ideas, and I believe you should go with the one you like the most - and by all means, stick to your headcase dictator if you like him. Hell, the real world still has Kim Jong-Il and Saparmurat Niyazov, so why not? :D
(in fact, I think Saparmurat Niyazov should rule more countries, just for the hell of it! :)).

Although, on a side note, I would really prefer a theocracy to be based on a real-life religion we can relate to. AMW is a realist game, and besides, it's a good frame of reference, even if your nation uses a perversion of said religion.

Not to sound insulting to anyone (which probabaly means i will) but a headcase looney Islamic dictator wouldn't be too far out, essepcially if he declares himself some kind of prophet or soemthing.

it soudns like a good idea, and you seem to have done a bit of reading into the various slants of AMW so you have amy provisional approval, pending RP evidence or anything else (shiny thigns work well).

Hey! After some indecision I've concluded that this is the best thread to post in, right? I am interested in joining A Modern World, having come to the conclusion that my jokey idea of Depkazia and the big wide world of NationStates aren't going to work.

Who am I? Well, I came to NS a long time ago with the group of 'real life' and 'on-line' friends that founded Tiamat and later New Tiamat, and hung around a lot but, like most of the group, didn't really get into it. Only BG really lasted long-term [nod of recognition] and went on to better things. I tried, with one other friend, to revitalise things by going ancient-tech, but never had enough others to play with, and then my friend faded and I made an ill-advised venture into future-tech, but fell victim to gross ignorance on my part in the needed fields of science.

By then BG had quit New Tiamat, everyone else I knew was gone, and my nation was soon deleted for inactivity, though only when past five billion population [moment's silence]. Much RP, usually jokey as our other friends were never very... political, was lost to the old NS forums, off-site, and the regional message boards.

I think it was reading articles about some of history's more loopy autocrats that got me to try again, but I now realise with some regret that playing a joke nation just isn't a long term thing, so I want to try something slightly more serious. So here I am!



I'm not fully decided on what I'd do with Depkazia if I want it to actually last. I think that there's still a place for my crackpot autocrat and his beloved pet hippo, but don't know whether he's the long-term future of Depkazia. I would be prepared to steer the nation in a direction designed to fill any gaps, power vacuums, imbalance, or whatever other players may feel exists in AMW. I may know BG, but that doesn't for a second mean that Depkazia has to like them! I am aware of the powerblocs in AMW, but, of course, don't know other players' opinions on how the world fits together. If I get in, Depkazia is going to be probably on the poorer side and in many ways primitive, but I am prepared to align it, either immediately or after early RPs in which the loony dictator will feature and perhaps fall, with any ideologies in the game.

It could be a conventional secular capitalist democracy (though likely full of crime and corruption), since I gather that much of Europe is lost to that cause; a fascist bastion uniting everyone against it in loathing (hm, that might be fun!); or a monarchy/theocracy following a faith other than Christianity, so that there's more than one religious bloc at work in AMW and it doesn't end up a Christian vs. secularist cold war.

I've got my eye on Middle Asia according to the old Soviet definition: Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan (I'm told that Kazakhstan is once again Russian territory), which ammount to some forty-four million persons in population. I thought that sounded like a lot until I considered that neighbours include the Russian empire, Iran, and China (and, smaller, Afghanistan, unless that's part of something else, now).

What say you? A post-Soviet multi-party democracy replacing a headcase dictator in Central Asia, a fascist backlash to superpowers rising on two sides, or a kingdom under Islam or an invented new religion needed in AMW?

Couple things...first of all, Europe is not facist, Im tired of hearing that. Hitler himself would have been cowered and beaten down by Louis-Auguste and Wingert...Europe is returned to absolute monarchy, which true facists would despise.

Second, I likt you mettle. I think AMW needs a Nyazov-esque character too...Id also agree with central Asia as a theatre...frankly the AMericas are the backwater of AMW...everything tried there has kinda fizzled out.

So, get a poposal together, and youve got my vote to join.

Yah, I like it, something to spice up AMW would be fine by me, any day of the week, escpecially if it involves the Ottoman's somehow...

NG, I'll respond to the Spanish thread soon; I have to catch up to all other threads too, and the Uni is a drag, and my project on Wiki.

We already have some spice Gupta, but throwing in some chili's could not hurt, plus I love the idea of a dictator who loves a pet Hippo, now theres a fellow.

Hey Mac no thing, take your time...Im thoroughly glad your hanging around, a Bourbon Spain is a big thing to me, even Bourbon-light. And historically, except with a few mishaps, France and Spain (monarchist France and Spain) were some of the closest allies in European History, especially following the War of the Spanish Succession. Indeed, Juan Carlos II is the only Bourbon still sitting a throne anywhere in the world.

Ciao

Oh, Nova Gaul, I didn't mean that Europe was Fascist, that was just my next thought in a line of vague ideas about what I could make Depkazia. First a capitalist democracy, because in reality there's a lot of those, but in AMW some of them are influential absolute monarchies instead. I meant the fascist thing to be my next thought about what Depkazia could be, so that I didn't have to pick sides and everyone could just hate me! But the third idea, another monarchy just with different religion to the Christian ones, seems to be a popular idea, so maybe I'd just stick to that.

I will write perhaps write up a day in the life of Depkazia under the loony dictator (Niyazov was exactly the sort of fellow I was reading about when I decided to give this a go!), or a little history of it until he came to power, then, if that goes well, anything can happen once I'm in. He could stay, or fall to a democratic or fascist revolution.

I've heard good things about New Tiamat, so you've got my approval.

It would indeed be good to see more of Central Asia represented. It is such an interesting region of the world. I made some abortive stabs at RPing Tajikistan back in the day, with old Emomali Rahmananov being toppled by some crazy blind guy, but that didn't work out and The Crooked Beat was born!

I'm halfway surprised that Niyazov doesn't have himself a pet hippo...

An example of how Depkazia might start out, and what I might begin to do with it if acceptable. Sorry if it's a bit hectic, but I wasn't sure how much to include in the taster. I would hope not to try cramming so many disperate bits of information into single threads in future.


The People's Popular Atheist Labour Republic

Edmund is a young man of seemingly Asiatic appearance. He has adopted for himself a bizarre alias and renamed the land of Middle Asia, calling it Depkazia. His first act on coming to power as President after the dissolution of the USSR, and the end of one and a half centuries of often disputed Russian rule in central Asia, was to establish the National Nomenclature Executive Department of the People's Information and Propaganda Ministry.

The Executive's first act was to title its creator Premier for Life President Elect High Marshal Admiral of the Fleet Aeronaut Doctor Edmund Wolfgang Chokareff, Popular Conduit First Class.

Since then, Chokareff and The People's Popular Atheist Labour Republic of Depkazia, with continued hard work from the National Nomenclature Executive Department, had worked in an isolation described internally as glorious. Hard work to irrigate the deserts of the west and the valleys of the east, to cultivate the mountains north and south, and ensure that nobody but nobody ever worse shoes on Mother Chokareff's birthday...


But Depkazia could not remain forever in unshared glory. For reasons unknown to those within, the country had been recently inundated from north and south until the People's Popular Atheist Labour Republic was drowning in racist and dogmatic agendas pursued through violence and bare-faced opposition to the honoured President.

Kazakhs and Afghanis were blamed for ruining Chokareff's most wise construct, the Republic, and, having hit upon this idea of displaced blame, the President soon turned to accusing the Russian Empire of stealing Depkazia's water, and, "...inch by inch, shifting the Aral Sea towards Siberia, which is frozen, so that they may know liquid water" which explained the sea's apparent shrinkage. He then went on to indicate that Turkic Chinese were smuggling in foreign genes and health problems, which explained the increasing ill health of many since salt and pesticides began to blow across the land from the exposed seabed.

Strangely, none of this name-calling and story-telling was solving the Republic's problems, and so Chokareff made the tactful and clever decision to... completely destroy everything he'd achieved in the last fifteen years and force more than forty million people into a cultural and political U-turn.

Depkazia

Depkazia's capital was moved to historic Samarqand (Samarkand), requiring the construction of new palaces and monuments... followed later by such optional extras as the rest of the government.

The flags of red and yellow bars and star were brought down across the land's one and a quarter million square kilometres, and a new one of Chokareff's design was raised, featuring a star for each quarter of Depkazia and a crescent turned to representation of a stirrup, which Depkazis (almost certainly without basis) claim to have invented, or, more specifically, a hippo-stirrup, which they almost certainly had invented. The reason for this combination would become clear, sort of, in time.

Official broadcasts and documents ceased all reference to the People's Popular Atheist Labour Republic, but replaced the title with nothing more than, "Depkazia".

Premier for Life President Elect High Marshal Admiral of the Fleet Aeronaut Doctor Edmund Wolfgang Chokareff, Popular Conduit First Class, Gate Emissary from God's Holy Nature to Man, informed his fortunate people that the miracle hippopotamus in his care since infancy was in fact a truly divine miracle sent by God with wisdom in her teeth and movements such as he had recently discovered in himself a divinely ordaned ability to translate. This did not mean that the hippo must be worshipped, merely that it was God's instrument in nature, while he had become Bab, the gate, in the domain of man. This relationship was necessary because of the damage done to nature in Depkazi soil during unbelief since the Bolshevik take-over and to the whole of the world since the industrial revolution.

He now indicated that Depkazia's earth was being purified by holy forces, and that, as such, its under-explored petroleum fields and massive natural gas reserves would burn more cleanly than those sourced in corrupt or unholy places.

Depkazia would open itself to foreign diplomacy and competition for those and other natural resources, and to help in fighting the international terrorists who were fleeing Kazakhstan and the Indias only to disrupt Depkazia.

...Edmund continued to accuse the Russians of stealing his water.

Ah, Depkazia. I, uh, think I'll leave this one to the rest of the community. Not that it looks like BG would get much out of backing Depkazia's entry, anyway.

It's much too early, I'm going back to bed.

You know, I'm immediately put in mind of Mayor Adam West (played, incidentally, by the real Adam West) from Family Guy... So I'm going to give you my Big Rubber Stamp Of His Majesty's Approval With An Impressive And Shiny Imperial Gold Seal!

It's probably not a good idea to let Edmund know that His Imperial Majesty Emperor Royce I is an avid hunter and has shot several Hippos in the African Colonies...

The Imperial Club, Port Royal, Roycelandia

"I'm quite sure it's spelt W-O-O-M-B, Governor-General Fry." His Majesty sat back in one of the high-back leather club chairs and took a sip of his single-barrel, oak-aged bourbon, clinking the ice cubes together and savouring the taste. The remains of his Smoked Salmon steak, with Capers, spanish onions, iceberg lettuce, and a quite splendid creamy dill mayonnaise sat on the plate in front of him, for His Majesty was in the mood for seafood this afternoon and had not regretted his choice of lunch.

"Your Majesty, I'm quite sure it's W-O-M-B-E." Governor-General Philip J. Fry (Governor-General of Roycelandian East Africa for those of you just tuning in) took another bite of the exquisite Sirloin steak with honey mustard au jus, finishing off the succulent dish before picking up his glass of Chateau Rennes-le-Chateau '62 .

The pretty, buxom, blonde waitress came over to clear their plates. "Your Majesty, Governor-General." she greeted them. "I couldn't help overhearing your conversation, and I think you'll find it's spelt W-O-M-B."

"My dear, it's patently obvious that you've never heard a Hippopotamus fart underwater!" smiled His Majesty, and at that he and Governor-General Fry threw their heads back and had a hearty laugh.

"Oh, where are my manners? The Imperial Garden Party is on Saturday Evening, and I would be most delighted if you (and any of your attractive and morally flexible friends) could be in attendance. I'll have my Aide, Wiggles, drop by this evening with the invitations..."

After all, it is good to be the Emperor! ;-)

Depkazia, sounds very promising, I must say. Just to clarify, which RL countries does your proposed nation include?

Well, no doubt if Chokareff ever gets his hands on a suspect, rather than... you know, he'll have the fellow fed to his hippo. Chokareff declares Luke Perry a Russian, issues warrant...

I was hoping for Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan, which sounds like a lot, but at the same time is less territory than Kazakhstan alone, and less population than most of the neighbouring states (China, Iran, Russia's empire, though larger than Afghanistan). Probably there'd be a distinct Depkazi people with minorities based on the actual ethnic populations of those countries.

Would anybody mind if I started a thread for Depkazia in AMW, then? Start something and just see how it goes? I'll come back and link it when it's up, and we'll see if it disagrees with anyone, I suppose.

Sure, why not? By the way, you mentioned turning into a capitalist democracy along the way...See, I'm planning to have a plotline featuring a shadowy cabal called "The Apostles" which liberates a chain of countries, turning them into democracies, but eventually falls once they become corrupt and totalitarian. Would you be interested in serving as a temporary vassal somewhere along the road? This is a while off, of course, but...

Well, if it's somewhere off in the future, I think we could give it a go.

I'm going to try to avoid getting too committed to a single idea, this time. In the past, playing a nation as a joke, being stuck in a gimmicky non-modern technology frame, and things like that, ended up being less fun than expected when I was stuck to it.

And here it is: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=465548

For anyone interested, but especially Depkazia's neighbours (Russian empire and China in particular).

I am a little nervous about the dratsic change that would be required to bring those nations together, but meh. Quinntonian interests will be served either way.

WWJD
Amen.

Quin, I have a question for you. What happens if Tsarist Russia and Quintonnia end up in a confrontation in the Filipines thread? (If my memory is correct, are you still playing both?)

Quin, I have a question for you. What happens if Tsarist Russia and Quintonnia end up in a confrontation in the Filipines thread? (If my memory is correct, are you still playing both?)
I just wanted to answer your question that you posed about what if Russia and Quinntonia got into a conflict.

I have been thinking about that a lot and I really don't know what to say.
I mean, when I created ingert, he was to be a kind of mad tyrnat of a extremely militaristic Ukraine. His stated goal was to rule Russia as Tsar, but who could have ever dreamed that it would have really happened?!
That did make me ponder the idea that I was playing two major powers now. I thought of giving one of them up, but then decided that I would make a go of it and see if I could do it.

The Fillipino thread is a quandry so, before I make each decision, I really have to ask what the seperate nations would do, not paying attention to the other. In this case, it very well could come to conflict. Wingert may not back down, though he understands that in a sea war with Quintonia, he would just end up having a lot of sunk ships. I guess I would try to be as fair as possible, and ideally keep them apart, but if it came to all-out war, Quinntoina would attack the Tsarist fleet first, then move onto France.

I guess I am not that worried about the conflict, as I don't see anyone complaining if I have me on the NATO side blasting teh hell out of me on the HL side, I think it would be more of an issue if we were to work together.

For instance, I could concieve of one issue we could stand together on, Dra-pol. Both for disparet reasons, but in a sense, becoming allies.

I think that say, BG couldn't care less about the first scenario, but might do everything but accuse me of Godmodding in the second, even though both would be fitting into the character of my nations.

Does that answer your question?

PS-I didn't mean to accuse BG of anything, I was just putting forth a hypothetical.


I'll post this on the thread as well.

Tsar Wingert the Great.

Relax guys, here is not going to be any violence in the Philippines, other than that caused by the Igovian Rouge at least.

I think Quinn has done an admirable job of balancing the two. As well, I think it is better to have the two major superpowers in AMW, Russian and the US, both sedate and controlled by the same character, it is a good way to prevent things in any scenarioe from becoming out of hand.

That said, can I have Indochine, please? I promise no more opressing natives of extorting colonies if I can have that.

Ahhh, well, theres always the movie Indochine I suppose, but its not a very good one.

But Hennessee is!

Tell you what, NG... you can have North Vietnam (French Indochina!) and Roycelandia will take Southern Vietnam (Roycelandian Indochina)...

['Nam Flashback] Can anyone else hear the helicopters coming? Charlie's in the jungle, you know. The man in the black pyjamas... I love the smell of Napalm in the morning. The Horror. The Horror. The Horror...

JOOOOOHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNNNYYYY!!!!!!!!![/'Nam Flashback]

Hey now, since we're out of character... the Filipino rebels are a pre-Igovian force. That's right, the violence in the Philippines is older than the Igovian Soviet Commonwealth. When it started, Beth Gellert was probably cheering on Quinntonian arming of Manila for cointerinsurgency warfare.

The NPA and CPP fought utterly alone for decades, as a point of policy (independence, self reliance) and only asked for help... I forget when, I think it was during the late Sopworth era from BG's point of view. And since then, BG has been involved in backing a Maoist-dominated army that has hit heights of more than twenty thousand full time fighters, plus countless part-time fighters and helpers, and untold numbers of civilian supporters.

Briefly around the time of Roycelandian intervention we made a low-key shift towards rather underhanded manipulation of the CPP and NPA in an attempt to encourage reform away from authoritarian Maoist traditions... but increased Roycelandian/German/French/Chinese and such involvement has shut that down, meaning that the Filipino communists are continuing more or less as ever, just with a few extra million in the bank.

The only new crisis in the Philippines is created by the monarchist and capitalists nations rapidly increasing their authority over Filipino affairs.

Blaming the Igovians is something that can be tried in character, but it is actually a big fat nonsense.

In the hypotheticals, if the USQ and Wingert did start shooting at one another over the Philippines (bizarre), then we might become more seriously involved, but I doubt we could actually do much to change the direction of the NPA/CPP.

Unless anyone disagrees, I mean, I can turn the Filipino communists Igovian if it would make everyone happy!

(Oh, and while SE Asia is being referenced, we've also a traditional relationship with Vietnam that has been directed towards supporting leftist moves that happen naturally, and trying to offer alternatives to moves when they've happened towards right-wing or western ideas. We're also active in trade and diplomacy in Lao People's Democratic Republic (Laos), having found most support there out of all the states rising from the collapse of Bonstock and Marimaia, with minor involvement also in Cambodia, though here it is through non-governmental organisations.)

I am a little nervous about the dratsic change that would be required to bring those nations together, but meh. Quinntonian interests will be served either way.

WWJD
Amen.

What sort of changes? I wasn't aware of any RP history in the area. If there is anything, I'd like to work it in now, before Depkazia develops too far.

I think that what is being referenced there is my history, more than anything. Since I represent a nation that has teh Soviet Union very much in their history, naturally I assumed a more or less normal relationship with former Soviet nations, and it would serve as a bit of a shock to me if I suddenly had to account for some of the former nations being isolationist.
That being said, I am quite pleased with having a Royalist who has a history that parralels my own a little, seeing as we both somehow gained our freedom from Soviet oppression.

So, have you heard of teh Holy League?

Tsar Wingert the Great.

I dunno, with regards to Vietnam and Indochina. I doubt that the Vietnamese in particular will accept French vassalship, especially when they violently overthrew the French Republic's colonial administration. For the Vietnamese people to say yes to being re-colonized by a France infinitely less likely to give them self government, and infinitely more likely to work them dead...it all sounds a bit fishy.

No doubt the HL could do it militarily, but any invasion attempt would have to run the Spyrian gauntlet in the form of Sujava, and regionally Spyr is much more powerful than the Holy League. Sukhoi clones can cover the whole of the Dutch East Indies from Sujavan airstrips, and can easily reach Vietnam. Not to mention, Spyr has developed some fearsome (and successful) types of weaponry designed specifically to disable the new line of battleships, and employs such devices amongst its large fleet of quite effective submarines.

So its a risky proposition at best, one quite likely to result in conflict.