NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, I don't have anything specific to say in regards to Elkazor, as we've discussed this telegram wise, but how do we settle the Tunisian conflict? Did it simply never happen?

Oh, and I believe Hitler has to be around for two reasons:

Cultural and demographic. You may not understand, BG, but the fight against Nazism is viewed in much of the Western world as the clearest example of Good VS Evil. It's colored American politics and ideals post WWII, and became one of the largest motivating factors for our "wars of liberation" ideology (which, of course, was also used extensively by politicians to mask greedy wars of conquest and such) and anti-communism. The rhetorical concept of "we helped defeat the Nazis" has been in the American political landscape for a long time, and is really the root of most Americans' "we are the good guys" beliefs.

Demographically...Well, continental Europe is now almost Jew-free. Hitler was, sadly, able to achieve much of what he wanted in the long term, and the loss of Judaic influence has modified the European political landscape heavily.

Finally, are we satisfied with Moorington taking charge of what will be essentially AMW's Germany? So long as he keeps working with us in the early stages to make sure that everyone's happy with the history, that is.
I think we ought to say that early on it's sort of a casual probationary period, eh?
We should at least see what he's going to do, let him start a first RP or something, as well as working out how many people his nation has and learning how powerful it will be in AMW, unless anyone has really grave reservations to indicate.
To Moorington, well, sorry it's taking a while, but as you can probably see, the good ship AMW is going through some choppy waters just now.
Yeah, let's let him in. His current version seems fine, and if any discrepancies come up, we can iron 'em out later.

Well, AC, apart from the fact that there's still hundreds of thousands of Jews in Europe and I believe more than half a million in France alone, and that I did mention the question of Israel's conception in my own post, I think it would be well to point out that AMW's demographics, whether or not you understand, are radically different to those existing in RL. In reality, there's no hundred-plus million Celts in India, for starters.

More importantly than that, you're still going on and on about the USA, which doesn't exist in AMW. In Q's position I might be a little frustrated by now, having gone to some lengths to build a distinct nation. This has troubled plenty of AMW players, Dra-pol's example springing to mind as the Chinese claimed to be bearing-down on the North Korean capital of Pyongyang, which would probably have really worried the Drapoel government up in the mountains at Da'Khiem...

Your response appears to be largely about why we couldn't erase Hitler from modern human history without noticing, not why he is vital to AMW. To the Quinntonians, I'm sure that losing a million lives in Korea (more than three times the US's loss in WWII, I believe) has rather eclipsed any contribution to an anti-Nazi struggle. I don't know why you're talking about the alleged impact of WWII on modern America, since it doesn't even exist in AMW.

Hmmm...I overreacted. Sorry, its just being from a family of Poles that fought in WW2 and sheltered fleeing Jews, and being an incredibly patriotic American (I know you disagree with patriotism and such, but I'll explain my reasoning for it some other day---and trust me, it has little to do with taking credit for the achievments of previous Americans) the impact of the WWII struggle has colored my perceptions of the world. For me, its the perfect example of a gigantic struggle between good and evil, and the thought of modifying it heavily put me on the defensive.

One point though...Europe's Jewish population, percentage wise, is a lot smaller than it used to be, especially in Germany.

But overrall, I concede my wrong, so lets just let Moorington get on with whatever he wants.

OK, as one player that will have to be playing very closely with Moorngton, I would like a few things cleared up. I thinnk that we need a WWII with Hitler and Nasism and Stalin and so one, because that war is integral to the development of my nation as it stands today. i am not saying that there could not be a Kaiser, I mean, who would the Tsar be to bar a prospective and powerful member of the HL? However, It needs to be explained a little better in my mind. Also, where is the Rping evidence of this guy? And does he even understand the rules of the AMW? I think that some of his comments are leading me to question that he has a full understanding of the AMW as a community. I mean, this community is a BG wet dream, there is no leader and we all disucc and decide everything as a group. As it stands, this is what you must do to get in.
1. State your claim, including territory, population and political structure (a few notes on the military would be good, too)
2. Satisfy the questions that everyone gives so that most people are OK with your claim.
3.Get two active players to give you a full sponsorship. That means that they have to endorse you, and later if you Godmodd or something, they come a knockin.

PS-Molava is a Tsarist vassal state and a s such, my territory as of present. Though, I would not be opposed to opening relations with any other Eastern European powers, I do get so lonely.

Tsar Wingert I.

In that case, what other Eastern European nations are left?

Romania (if you want to jump right into bad blood with the Ukrainians), Poland*, Czech Republic*, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Austria... plus Slovenia, Serbia, Croatia, and the other Baltic states (except Greece, I think).

*these may be reduced from RL borders, depending on the success of Moorington's bid.

I am more than a little concerned about Morrimgton's bid, WWII is VERY importnat to the development of Quinntonia as itstands today. If there is going to be a claim, I would wnat to see some of these issues resolved before we go any further.
WWJD
Amen.

Is Moorington's heart absolutely set on Germany? After all, there are plenty of other (and potentially greatly more interesting) parts of the world that are completely open...not to mention a unique character RP experience as a banished head of state cooling his heels in London.

If history is the only problem, then there's always the tried-and-tested Neo-Anarchos/Elkz/AC/Doomingsland 'recent divergence' model.

Well, the more I think about it the more silly that model becomes. At the very least I will have to suggest some changes in South American - Check invisionfree.

I would also like to point out that WWII -more or less as we know it- is extremely important to Roycelandia. I mean, we use a lot of equipment derived from WWI and WWII British Stuff (SMLEs, Bren Guns, Spitfires, etc).

However, it's not outside the realms of possibility for a Kaiser to be restored in the present day (or by Military Coup), which I think makes more sense than messing with vital aspects of AMW history...

OOC: Hmmn, may I ask who exactly controls the rest of Borneo (in other words everything that isn't Brunei), its just I thought that a nice little insurgency/minor border skirmish might make for an enjoyable little RP while at the same time not having too much impact in terms of the macro geo-political situation.

The Islamic Republic of Indonesia, also controlling Sulawesi and Aceh. One of the regimes that emerged with the disintegration of Bonstock (along with Sujava, Malaysia, and Singapore). It is an NPC state at the moment, though it was played by Hudecia when it first emerged, and perhaps might be taken up again.

Otherwise, as a note to potential AMW applicants, if you're willing to accept a bit of pre-existing AMW backstory, the territories of Borneo (less UE's Brunei), Sulawesi, Aceh (northern tip of Sunda island), mainland Malaysia, & Singapore are open.

I'm not sure how they're listed on the AMW roster... that thing really needs an update...

Indeed.

I think Mohammed Kalla's Sulawesi-based government might have it.

By the way, Timor is open too, I believe, as is New Guinea and a number of other small islands in the region.

Ok well that will work, after all Brunei is an Islamist state that has refused to become part of a greater Islamic state in favour of remaining essentially a part of a secular federation. So who is willing to RP as a bunch of Islamist guerillas and/or Islamic Republic of Indonesian troops who are trying to stir up trouble by infiltrating into Brunei? This is supposed to be a small scale thing, really just a bunch of cross border raids with some character driven jungle warfare RPing, as opposed to a major threat to Brunei, after all Indonesia is NPC and everything so we shouldn't take it too far...

I'm a little too busy with other things to take a major role, but this looks like a good opportunity for the new forces rising in Al Khals to start something bigger. Practice for campaigns in Africa and Russian territories.

Hey United Elias,

I guess I'll RP Kalla's Islamic Republic of Indonesia. I RPed it into existance so I might as well continue on.

Kalla's regime took over Aceh and Borneo after pushing out Hudecian troops (I was leaving NS for a while so I decided it'd be best to create a plausible exit strategy).

You'll find that their army is well equipped because.. uhh... umm.. Hudecia gave them the weapons (looks embarassed).

Do you want to start the thread?

The Thread is up:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9556668

Sorry the thread title is cliched but after writing up all of that, I couldn't quite bring myself to think of something cleverer...

(This is actually Safehaven2)

I saw that someone else went out for Germany but didn't know if we was accepted so if he isn't i'd like the spot. If not then maybe I'll take over France's spot after he wraps things up.

RP sample please.

Ok...ummm...

Well heres one of me rping a war and such.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=379819&highlight=Safehaven2

Some more recent and ongoing stuff:
A Passion PLay

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=439156&highlight=Safehaven2

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=438792&highlight=Safehaven2

An older one

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416000&highlight=Safehaven2

This one didn't end up to hot but was pretty good while it lasted. More on the diplomatic side especially towards the end.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=404975&highlight=Safehaven2


Drawing blanks, I can't think of my old rps. If you need anymore or something of a different kind than I'll find something, alot of my stuff is off forum though on Macabees W@W series.

SafeHaven is an awsome roleplayer - I've been honored enough by role playing with him for the past year, and I gladly give him my support to be included within the ranks of AMW.

On a side note, I haven't posted much lately - I will soon, I promise. I just have so many other role plays going on!

Alright, the thread regarding events with Portugal has been put up again, however, for those who read the thread before I left to Spain, there's nothing new...the next post will have the new updates and information. It should be a good read, if I take my time with it, and it will most likely be a much slower process than the Moroccon War, since I understand Portugal more than Morocco - and frankly, I was a bit of a amatuer player in AMW when I took over Morocco; and I still am, but not as much. :p

Also, I do own Morocco, giving me another 30 million people worth of population. However, understandably, not much of it recruitable for either military purposes, or for industrial purposes, although true, I do have a few Moroccon divisions - but those will never touch home again, that I can assure you of.

One final thing, what is the link to the AMW forums? I really need to bookmark it!

Gracias.

'ere you go: http://s9.invisionfree.com/NS_Modern_World/index.php?

'ere you go: http://s9.invisionfree.com/NS_Modern_World/index.php?

Does this mean I'm accepted?

Does this mean I'm accepted?


No, that was for me. I voted for your acceptance, but you need one more person to vote for you. But, don't rush, because France's last role play is going to be long by the looks of it.

Sorry for my delay but did I get accepted?

Sorry for my delay but did I get accepted?


I think we're still having problems with the history of Germany that you want to present.

Okay the Kaiser just turns into a name given to the consul of the Republic of Germany, and it turns away from that monarchy. Ho does that sound.

SafeHaven: Moorington is taking Germany, and France has something extremely specific planned for his ending. Talk to him if you want to work something out.

Moorington: The Kaiser isn't so much an issue, it's your re-write of WW2 and WW1 that is. Look, how about this...Kaiser dissapears after WW1, but some time during the Cold War the office is re-instituted. The allies don't mind because they are more concerned with anti-communism than anti-monarchism. Sound good?

Sure so now do I get in? About my experience it is all wrapped up in E20 where you can look and i am Denmark and you can see all of my stuff I did for the country like diplomatic branch exports ect ect.... My country summary I already posted somewhere along the line so I really don't see the reason of posting it again. Also the whole deal with the kaiser is that I want a republic but instead of two consuls there is only one not name a consul but a Kaiser. Also I am nit saying that Hitler was a kaiser he destroyed that idea but was resurrected later by Erwin Rommel. Also if I cannot have prussia can i at the very least get some of austria or crech republic (I can't spell crezoslavokia or whatever).

Hmmm...Alright, I'll give you my stamp of approval. You need one more to join.

Thank you but what territory change did you say yes too? I am going to say the second one with all of the crezchs under my sway and pieaces of Austria but no prussia or poland.

I'd rather you kept it simple and close to RL boundaries. Maybe just combine Austria and Germany? Or hell, just take Germany?

Okay just Austria and Germany. I will figure out the colnies later (If I have any)

Do we have any consensus on how final resolution of Elk's France ending will go? His last post here was pretty clear that the ending he's planning is mostly closure for literary ego, and not part of AMW, so it can't really be taken up as canon, and we'll have to work it out to establish closure in an AMW context.

Well, why can't we just accept it as canon?

Because he expressly stated that he intended it to take place outside of the AMW environment, as a closed roleplay with participation subject to his approval.

At least that would seem to bee the message of his last post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9530860&postcount=995) here.

I think we should take Elkazor's RP as AMW France's actual history.

After all, its not as though we have much else to put in its place, and however we find it Elkazor is owed a break.

........cough.......cough

So, Moorington, we have you claiming Germany and Austria, and the restoration of the Kaiser title taking place following WWII. A few minor things to confirm:

a) The division of Germany into East and West during the Cold War: was Germany divided? While it may be easier to stick close to RL history, I suspect AMW members will allow more leeway here. If you stick with a division and reunification, keep in mind that the date for a Berlin Wall collapse can be adjusted back further in time, as the USSR's bloc suffered increasing rebellion and loss in the Ukraine, reducing their industrial base and ability to keep everything in line.

b) German-Austrian unification: This obviously differs from RL history, especially s a requirement the Allies nudged in to the Austrian constitution in the postwar was a clause banning union with Germany. How did this happen? Two possibilities leap immediately to mind: i) an Austro-West German union in the early postwar as an expanded security bulwark against the threat o the Soviet Union, and ii) as part of a greater pan-Germanic national movement which led to the fall of East Germany and Austro-German union. Of course, myriad other possibilities exist... I'm just blathering.

Finally, to everyone applying, do keep in mind the environment of AMW, which goes beyond just use of real world populations and geographies. It is one of technological limits (existing 2005), of economic limitations, and where Risk-like invasions or grand projects reduced to mere numerical estimates are avoided.

I absolutely do not want Moorington in AMW until he proves a few things. First of all, he does not seem to get the idea that is AMW. Second, he doesn't seem to understand the issue everyone has with his claim. Third, he does not seem to be able to string a whole thought together coherently. I don't know if he even knows when to start a new paragraph, and it makes his posts disjointed and confusing. He has not formally posted a claim at all. "I'm gonna take Germany, Austria and as much of the rest of Europe as I can!" is not a valid claim!

1)Do we have any evidence of previous NS RPing ability?
2)Do we have an introductory post?
3)Do we have a final, formal claim to point to?

The answer to all of the above is no.

1)With his low post count, I want to know of more than a few story arcs that he has been involved in, as well as maybe having some people that he has RPed with vouch for him.

2)When Elkazor first came to NS, we required of him an intro post, it was so good, that it earned him a place into NS. I wonder if Moorington could blow our socks off as much with his questionable ability.

3)Look at previous claims. We cannot accept anyone, according to the rules of AMW, without a formal claim.

The problem that I have with his "claims" is that they contain language that makes them indefinate, like "If I have colonies, we can decide later" (paraphrased). A claim must have a final territory list (It is really best if it contains real political boundaries from RL) and a final population count (that can be found in the CIA Factbook). Only then, can people endorse the claimant. So, in regards to the nature of the rules of AMW, in both written and oral tradition, Moorington has quite far to go before he comes on board.

All of that considered, and added to it the fact that he can't seem to come up with his own backstory, and is relying on everyone else to do that, leads me to seriously question whether or not he should be a part of the best, in my opinion, RPing group in NS.


WWJD
Amen.

Quinn, I am inclined to agree, his linguistic ability, or lack thereof, troubles me most, and could be extremely irritating.

Moorington, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you in RL?

I should also mention AMW's Germany isn't likely to have any Colonies at all- in RL, Britain, Australia, and NZ seized most of them in 1914 or so, and in AMW, I'd say Roycelandia and a couple of other Nations took them over the course of WWI.

Well, I'm inclined to be more forgiving. I mean, Strathdonia has a lot of spelling and capitalization issues, but he's still a damn good RPer. Alright, Moorington, give us a good intro RP. That should be a decent test, no?

Hello, all, it's me, again.

When Lavrageria first came to be, I said that it would never be the most active nation on earth, and when Lavrageria joined AMW I chose a fairly small nation that I thought was of relatively minor significance. How wrong I was, as it was promptly subjected to the biggest invasion this side of Korea! After a time, and a generally enjoyable defeat, my participation through Lavrageria fell still further, and I think that I implied semi-departure, which is basically what happened (apologies to the Estenlands or anyone else if I let things die a little prematurely).

However, a lot of time has passed (hasn't it just!), the situation surrounding my tiny, shattered nation has changed (or is changing?), and I've received encouragement with regards to a come-back elsewhere in AMW.

So I've been thinking about it, and my initial assumption was that I'd keep playing what remains of independent Lavrageria (65,000sq.km of an initial 207,600sq.km, and 3.2m of 10.4m people) and have Larionko Aidarov slowly become AMW's Enver Hoxha as his situation became impossible. But I think it would be firstly not much different to the situation I was in with Lavrageria to begin with, and a bit like repeating myself; and secondly asking a bit much of the Estenlands to have his Tsar put-up with it: in order for me to do anything at all, Aidarov would have to be a giant pain in Wingert's... side, and it would be out of character for him (once Russia's all sorted out) to, well, to not crush the Republic. We couldn't stop them, even with the best-laid plans (I had quite a lot of schemes), it simply wouldn't be a denfensible position: most of our trump cards have already been played in the first war, and it's a miracle that we survived at all.

LRR has briefly encouraged me to try one of a few other options, namely taking-up some of the remaining territories in India, or one of the African states. But apart from a general lack of good ideas on my part as to how to develop them as unique nations, I think that in the former case I would be doing the same thing again (re. putting my little nation in harm's way and getting my backside handed to me), and in the latter I would be able to pick between doing that yet again, or turning another African nation into a power, and I think that the African Commonwealth has pretty much sewn-up that approach.

Other options I thought about were to have Aidarov's cynical democracy-drives lead to popularity in Europe (which is falling under totalitarian control left and right) and evacuate him to a sympathetic Germany. But that would just look like I was saying to the Estenlands, 'hey, you beat me as a little country, so now I've moved a couple of miles and got eighty million fanatics and you're going down..zorz!' and it would just be asking for OOC tension where there's no need for any.

Soo, my blathering leads me to a combination of ideas and a possible application (I won't call it a formal one, yet). I quite like some of my characters. Well, who am I kidding, Morgan was two-dimensional, Kalmakoff's probably in a dungeon somewhere, and bit-part characters, if there were any, are all long dead, but I like Aidarov, darn it! And I think that his plotting and meddling went largely unnoticed with Lavrageria, because it was obvious that it wasn't going to do any good, and people had bigger things to think about. I am also more or less committed to the basic feel of the east European state I was building. I have done the hapless whipping boy thing, and I recognise that there's no room for more world superpowers in AMW.

All of this leads me to... the Balkans. I am surprised to discover it, and correct me if I am mistaken, but I think that Bosnia, Herzegovina, Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia, Montenegro, and Macedonia (regions that I list together for nooo particular reason :D) are all still NPC domains?

You can (if you bothered to read this far!) see what I'm thinking! Comments?

Oh, well, that was rather stupid of me. The fate of Lavrageria if I move-on!

I would propose that the sheer imposibility of the nation's position (landlocked and as good as having a plastic bag over its head) and the abandonment of the remaining people by their nation's founder and war-leader (Aidarov skipping town when he gets bad word from agents in Moscow) forces its inept emergency council of a government to humiliating terms with the Tsar. Perhaps it would persist as a partly autonomous province in order to satisfy ethnic Glakatahn hunger for freedom and keep them from rampaging across the land every couple of years, but with Morgan bought-off by a knighthood or whatever, Aidarov fled, and Kalmakoff captured, there'd be no iconic leadership behind which to unite, and landlocked within the Tsar's domain it'd be impossible to defy him and not starve, let alone fight.

Lavrageria would remain forever as a potential troublespot if we ever want a RP or there's ever a need to start breaking-up empire in the region. Whatever, really.

OOC: Here goes this introduction post begining with Kaiser Vagner Otto Bismark (Not related to Otto Von Bismark)


Political Moves:
"People of Germany", began Vagner, "The peoples of the world have become small and conquerable." "We though have become only stronger with the unification with austria to face the communist scum! We will triumph in victories, we will show the world what Germany is!
OOC: Thunderous clapping and whistling ect ect...
IC:
Military Moves:
As the new Kaiser took the reigns of power the army was overhualed. The process includued severe test in math,spelling, and history. That and mock battles culled away the incompetent commandeers and the German Army would hopefully be at 150% ability by the end of the year....
OOC: How does the time go in this thread?
Economic Moves:
The Kaiser usues political capital to get the Senate to propose a law which is the give a once in a lifetime oppurtunity to the Techology and Information buisnesses inside germany at the same time upping tarrifs on incoming products. That and a proposal to Poland for Poland to make 10% of Germany's food for her. The finer details will be ironed out later.
Diplomatic Moves:
America: I wish that a continued diplomatic diolouge to continue our trading and maybe even a trans-atlantic trading for us to make our products better.
Britian: Even though we have had our differences I hope that we will have no more in the future and so I will respect your trading ships if you do the same.
France: I hope that you and I will be friends and that we will both stop attacking our throats. Also I would ask if we could both make a Belgium-France-Germany None-Agression Act?
Denmark: I will need some small boats and will happily provide for most of the cost if you let me make a Port Facility within your borders and I hope our frienship shal never grow dim.
Belgium: I hope you help France sign the coming Non-Agression act between us for peace in our time.

Because he expressly stated that he intended it to take place outside of the AMW environment, as a closed roleplay with participation subject to his approval.

At least that would seem to bee the message of his last post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9530860&postcount=995) here.

Exactly so, Spyr.

The reason for that is I cannot abide the thought of such as the Chinas, Heaven forbid!, or possibly even such as you (although I have no previous reason to hold ire against you per se, I have no idea who it was who was slandering me to AMW by TG, except that it was not of the several gentlemen who reside there) stepping in and fouling up a streamlined RP that took me months to plan with five minutes worth of rubbish.

A literary ego, as you said, or the desire of a storyteller to tell a story correctly by serving justice to the plot and characters? I maintain the latter.

LRR, I’m surprised to find you saying a kind word about me. Just FYI, just between you and me, I find you decent sort of chap, and would have allowed you to RP some revolutionaries and/or malcontented socialists; as amazingly you, of the Progressive Bloc, seem to understand the formula of ‘rising conflict’, a critical element to any fictionally written venture. If you wish to TG me, and can present a methodology for France’s revolutionaries and socialists (unfortunately, however, not the conspiracy of the Illuminati which pulls their strings) in their efforts, I should still at this time be happy to welcome you.

My own two cents in closing Spyr is that just because that, speaking of “A Much Anticipated Revolution”, is not an open thread is not synonymous with it being a closed one. If you ‘wish to play’ though, you have to be willing to do it on the internal level with perhaps minor external support (in the largest case perhaps a commie volunteer brigade such as in the Spanish Civil War). Indeed, the whole purpose---the very cause---of my last RP was to distill the roleplaying abilities of select AMW members (as opposed to throwing numbers and statistics and rules around, which conduces me to nausea) in a setting which allows full exploitation of said abilities.

In my book, thats as fair as fair can be. Ergo if that is the reason you wish to come up with a different history for AMW I find it very weak beer, watered down by tears perhaps?

Well, it was certainly not my intent to suggest replacing your RP with a murder of crows descending on the carrion remains of France... really, other than Juan Catalan or the legions of Rome, it is hard to imagine outward factors pouring in in any justifiable sense. Rather, my concern is based on the other possibilities that might occur in a settig beyond the bounds of AMW, fitting well with the tale you weave but having implications difficult to integrate back into our roleplay environment. Though, I ought to clarify, this may be less abut your storytelling than with paranoia I've built up due to the tendency of heated departures in pre-AMW roleplay to involve nuclear winters or ludicrously villainous coups and mass genocide.

My other concern, that it might not be your wish to see your efforts to conclude the story of France used by AMW, seems to have been allayed, so I might better describe my feelings now as cautious... it would be nice to see a fitting final chapter to the epic of the French Restoration.

Yo comprendo. Allow me to copletely allay your fears: the story will take place and end within the internal setting of the French nation, and will have neither a holocaustic nor demented ending vis-a-vis nuclear weapons or genocide.

The ending will of course be a surprise, but not a ludicrous one. Rather, it will be the infinitely proper ending for such a story, at least the way I see it. Within that closure, however, there is room for damn good RP. In that spirit, just as LRR, Id be happy to welcome you onboard if you wish to TG me with a brigade or corps of peoples youd like to use to participate, no more than Battalion (700 troops) size, or equivalent others. Por ejemplo, if youd wish to play a Strainist Foreign Battalion...such a thing would not be beyond the scope of my interests, and would add a bit of more fun to boot. As a matter of fact, any AMW member is welcome, provided they TG me with an idea of how thed wish to participate and I find it within the bounds of reason.

Im sorry to seem rude, but I dont wont this devolving. I look forward to hearing from some, hopefully all, of you. I want this to be a kind farewell OOCly, and the best IC RP weve ever had.

If I may step in here a moment.

I believe this is the proper thread to place my question.

Is there room for a small group of peoples in the MW currently or are you all full up?

Royce is semi-familiar with me, though in truth it has been a considerable amount of time since I wasin an RP with him.

He does however "host" some of my people, along with some other nations, i believe another MW nation included as a matter of fact.

Allow me to submit my idea, and if the diea is acceptable-even if only for the sake of color-- then I will work on an introductory post for reveiw.

My "Nation" would be a combined group of the Bedouin tribes who fled the mid-east and are now attempting to spear head an Islamic reformation.
The long term goals are of course to take the Holy Lands back from the Wahhabist extremists this would be many years off--now that is if I understand your time period.

The Bedou--the Bedouin name shortened by the tribes.
Were accepted into many nations as refugees and displaced people, while their status is recognized as being Bedou, they have been granted the right to live in ertain regions of specific countries.

Now for the purpose of this RP I would need to claim land actually on the Arabian peninsula, I wont bother with a naming of the land until I know if i may procede with the application and claiming process--I assure the land claim be reasonable.

I could use advice about how you calculate population--actual region pop for a specific time period--or a percentage of NS pop versus land area occupied?

Thank you.

First of all, allow me to say that I give my full support to Bedou taking on the role of various Bedouin and Tuareg tribes in the North of Africa- I've RPd with him a bit in normal NS, where he has a large presence in The Sudan of REA.

Bedou, might I suggest RPing the Bedouin and Tuareg in the areas currently comprising Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and the Sudan? You'd have some great RP potential running a loose affiliation of Tribes rather than an actual Nation.

The thing to bear in mind is that Islamic Reformations are NOT going to be popular with the Roycelandian Government, and whilst the Sudan is a big, empty place, people calling for an Islamic Government are going to find themselves on the receiving end of either a 180gr SP .303 round or being shunted over the border into Ethiopia or somewhere equally non-Roycelandian or Elian.

And Moorington, I'm not sure you've totally grasped what AMW is all about. Britain really isn't a huge power in AMW, France is on the brink of revolution, and the four biggest non-Asian Nations are Quinntonia (US), Roycelandia (Caribbean, Cape Verde Islands, East Africa, Vanuatu, Southern Algeria, and a few other places), United Elias (Egypt and parts of Saudi Arabia, as well as Belize, Brunei, and a couple of other places), and Beth Gellert (A large chunk of India).

Have a read of some of the AMW Roleplays (do a username search for any of the current members) and see if you still think it's your sort of thing...

First of all, allow me to say that I give my full support to Bedou taking on the role of various Bedouin and Tuareg tribes in the North of Africa- I've RPd with him a bit in normal NS, where he has a large presence in The Sudan of REA.

Bedou, might I suggest RPing the Bedouin and Tuareg in the areas currently comprising Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and the Sudan? You'd have some great RP potential running a loose affiliation of Tribes rather than an actual Nation.

The thing to bear in mind is that Islamic Reformations are NOT going to be popular with the Roycelandian Government, and whilst the Sudan is a big, empty place, people calling for an Islamic Government are going to find themselves on the receiving end of either a 180gr SP .303 round or being shunted over the border into Ethiopia or somewhere equally non-Roycelandian or Elian.


As for the a loose confederation of tribes--That is indeed what i would prefer-you know me well.
The region, is suitable, and the suggestion will be taken if allowed.
The Islamic Reformation--I think you are think of Islamic Revolution like in Iran.
I mean Islamic Reformation--Like Martin Luther--a reformation within Islam.
I dont want to get too detailed as that would ruin the RP discovery.
It was the Bedouin tribes that aided the Wahhabist movement under Aziz, so it would only be fitting to have the Bedouins become the counter to that movement now that it has run-a-muck--that is if we are in present day.
Were we to be in the past I will have to reconsider that approach--again though-that is of little consequence for the time being.

Finally, thank you very much for your support Royce.

Bedou can also count on my recommendation.

Marimaia hosts a Bedou population, and I've always found him to be an excellent RPer with a good sense of consideration of other players. His inclusion can only lead to good worthwhile RPs.

Interesting, Bedou.

Al Khals, by the way, is a tiny Arab-majority secular republic (well... military dictatorship) on the Tanzanian coast, and is presently undergoing something of an extreme Islamist revolution, and there have been attempts to spread that to REA, North Africa, and United Elias (most of the Middle East being UE's likewise fairly secular dictatorship), though it is true that it was actually the Republican government that guided most of the over-seas agitation in an attempt to create a myth of Islamic radicalism and thus justify their otherwise likely unpopular crack-down on domestic opponents, who just happened to be calling for greater respect for Islam in Al Khals.

At first the Republic was having no luck convincing anybody that such radicalism was a problem, but then the Christians invaded Algeria and took-over Nigeria with its millions of Muslims, and United Elias signed treaties with Israel, and suddenly the Republic's attempts to create and control radicalism blew-up in their faces as one extremist went completely rogue and started issuing fatāwa left and right, and the government got its arse kicked for failing to do anything about the new Crusades or to pressure UE to act.

Erm, maybe that's not vitally important, I just wanted to convey all the information related to what influence Al Khals has had on the Muslim world and many of the territories you may try to occupy.

Anyway, it's probably more significant to the Wahhabists specifically that at least a large part of Saudi Arabia is and pretty much always has been part of United Elias, and that it is a strong secular dictatorship, if a relatively un-oppressive one, as I understand it. Exactly what the Al Khali radicals -and the God's Spear organisation, which initially was a totally made-up terror network invented by the Republic but was then adopted in reality by an extreme special interest group- believe is as yet not entirely clear, but one might argue that they -and whatever is going on in SE Asia- are the real foundation of corrupt offshoots or radical interpretations of Islam in AMW, where previously it probably hasn't been a major world force in any respect. UE has been relatively secular for ages; Roycelandia has held-on to the Sudan and enforced atheism, I think; the ancient Beddgelens never allowed Muslim invaders to establish significant dynasties on the Indian sub-continent, and so on and so forth.

I would offer Al Khals as a host, but we're tiny and remote. The Bedou would have to cross Lusaka in order to get there. I suppose it might have happened when Roycelandia was still in charge in Lusaka, though. Hm.

Marimaia, that is who it was!

Sorry I should have just checked my factbook.

Anyway, I do want to make clear my reason for the type of "peoples" I wish to RP is because I can not be on as frequently as some of your others, and while i could of course join any regular RP AMW seems to have the consistantsy of a good world to be in.

To be honest however--judging by the discussion of France's fate I think I am not certain of the time period you are RPing--it doesnt matter I like the over all set up.
But it would seem you are between WWI and WWII yes?

Bah, just let me know when enough people have said "Yay" or "Nay"
and I will use the lands suggested by Royce, and calculate a pop based on tribal and ethnic popualtions.

Thank you Dai Nippon Koku, I take it you are also Marimaia.

Bit where Dra-pol tries to figure-out what needs to be changed, added, and removed on the front page.

1) Hindustan may have made another change? I have-
-Pakistan, Indian states of Madhya Pradesh, Matharashtra, Gujarat
but suspect that this is in need of some changing? Or no?

2) Elkazor is leaving, and France is [probably not immediately free?]

3) Is Doomingsland still in Italy?

4) The Macabees has conquered Morocco, somehow?

5) Armandian Cheese is possibly about to leave? And Russia will be under the control of the Estenlands? Or no?

6) Has Al-Ahzad left? Oman and Yemen reverting to NPC status?

7) Sabir/Al-Sabir: is he still around to play Syria, Lebanon, and some Turkish provinces? If not, perhaps Yafor 2 will just re-consume the vacant Turkish states, assuming he is still around?

8) The Trucial States is gone from the UAE?

9) Kashu: is he really taking Bihar, or not joining AMW after all?

10) Moorington has an application for Germany and Austria, which doesn't seem to be going very well.

11) Bedou has a unique application for residence inside other agreeable nations, which seems to be going better.

12) Lavrageria has an almost-application to take-over the former Yugoslav republics (though I don't know whether or not they are, in AMW, former), and possibly see the rest of Belarus consumed by the Estenlands, but this is not yet in effect.

13) Anything else? I expect that I've missed something, and totally misunderstood or misrepresented something else. Possibly something to do with S/E Asia.

Interesting, Bedou.

..... Hm.

Thank you for the information--I see now that AMW has re-done history.
SO i am going to be doing some reading--as the Wahhabist movement never seized or controled Mecca, then that would mena Islam is not as I know it to be in Real Life so Reformation becomes ...difficult.

Yeah, I am going to need an AMW History lesson.
Do you all keep a thread with links to all the AMW threads?

Drapol, if it possible could i have a populace in Yemen, it just seems strange to me to have Arab Bedouins and not have any on the Arabian Peninsula.

I do only mean if Yemen does indeed become an NPC-in RL the Bedouin are a constant headache between Saudi Arabia and Yemen constantly ignoring borders.

Correct Bedou, I'm also Marimaia. We used to keep track of the AMW threads but I missed a couple and then I kinda forgot to update things. I can probably find a few threads for you which would be relevant to your appllication; I'll TG you the links when I find them.

D-P, there's a couple of bits I can help out with:

Grande Peru no longer controls Peru. Peru went to Ghosts of The Incans (_Taiwan), who also had Bolivia. Current circumstances have led to _Taiwan having to be absent for a while.

Sino got deleted for something.

Xiaguo is now the sole controller of China.

Bedou, we are supposed to be in entirely modern times (no speculative near-future nonsense for us!), though sometimes it does not appear so! Much of Europe is in the grips of Catholic-dominated Feudalism; Roycelandia is stomping about a great ruddy empire, flashing red tunics and refering to things as Rhodesia and Siam and such; and there's any number of other happenings that seem to be out of time.

It is primarily a gauge of our technologies and populations that we are set in the year 2005.

I should like to say, however, that in special circumstances there can be a moderated degree of flexibility in some things. The Lyong Peninsula is by far the largest break from our norms, being a totally invented land-mass, but one that was well developed in role-play and important to founding members such as myself. It might be possible to slightly tweak populations in order to accommodate an apparently good and well-liked player such as yourself, if there is a need to do so. We normally go by exact real-world populations, you see, but this is primarily to make sure that things are realistic and that nobody gets carried away, and nobody can be accused of godmodding in that regard. Demographics though are wildly different: the Congo is an industrial powerhouse, India is home to tens of millions of Celts, the Caribbean is the seat of a white-origin empire. If you wanted, and other people agreed, your Bedouin could inhabit the Brazilian rainforest, so long as it didn't mean wildly exceeding the real population of the place and didn't radically change the environemnt.

Ahhh,
Got it.
I will try to find some reasonble estimates on Bedouin population--
That is once an area for me is agreeable.

Royce suggested Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and the Sudan--If I am not mistaken each of those nations does indeed have real world indegenous pops of Bedouin--I know Royce and I have RP'd my Bedou colony in the sudan being ...I will have to look it up.--1,000,000

I am guessing my pop would not exceed a few million people-I will do some hunting.

I'd like to inquire if it was still possible to join AMW. If so I humbly request to control Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Belize, Honduras Nicaragua and Costa Rica.

The nation would be called The Republic of Mexico and basically the idea is that Emperor Maximilian of Hapsburg who ruled Mexico in RL from 1832 to 1867, is never executed, but retains power after aid arrives from his home nation and family in Austria-Hungary. He than continues rules Mexico until he dies in 1902. After that a series of Austrian/Mexican leaders control Mexico, while an influx of Austrian culture influences Mexican culture. After World War One and the destruction of Austria-Hungary and in a large part Germany as well, many exiles and royalists from those nations flee to Mexico. Members of the Austro-Hungarian and German royal family intermarry and create the Mexican royal family which does have some Native American/Mexican/Hispanic blood mixed in there. While America and much of the world slips into economic depression, Mexico with armies paid by parts of the German and AH royal treasuries, advances on and conquers much of Central America. It quietly supports the Nazis during WWII if only because of the royal families ethnic ties, and after WWII is over many Germans flee to Mexico again influencing its culture and giving it a more European/German feel. I hope this makes sense because I wrote it rather quickly and if this conflicts with anything that has happened so far in AMW I am willing to change the back story (assuming I get accepted).

If you wish proof of my RP'ing skill's I will be more than willing to provide links to help you in your evaluation. Thank you for considering my request to join.

Well Dra-pol there was the Strathdonian annexation of Niassa and Zambezia districts of Mozambique.

Niassa was a peaceful absorption at the citizen's request and the district now acts a semi autonomous region.
Zamezia was forcibly occupied in an effort to secure the Livingston Line (major railway) and the port of Queliamane. The region is liekly still udner reasonably heavy occupation and ties up a lot of troops. Quelimane remaisna bit of Question mark as the harbour district is still largely under Roycelandian control! although he hasn't raised any issues with the fact that I operate a fairly large coastal patrol element from there (although he might kick off when the New Britian arrives...).

On a quick estiamte those claims effectively tripple Strathdonia's land holdings and at msot adds about 4-5million to the population (i am willing to trim that down)

OOC: Sorry my bad on RPing since I was thinking that this was more like...
E20 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=424002)
But now I know that it is more like....
Post WW1 Germany (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=439733)
Well enleast I am pretty sure.
IC:
In a press conference today....Kaiser Vagner Otto Bismark began,"Today the Austrian-German alliance is now known as the Greater Prussian State of Germany." I now my views of anti-communism and pro-military may cause concern for some of the nations of the world I will promise to always be a man of diplomacy and not war.

In and around Germany and Austria the german military was deploying some of it's most elite units to arrest and/or kill any communists inside the GSoP. This and the latest ant-communism party springing up right before the election has made the communists inside of Germany/Austria slightly more underground.

As the usual deployment of Diplomats and recalling some new things where happining. One of which was the recalling of the diplomats to all pro-communist nations which was regular to a degree but the deployment of them was not. Since none where re-deployed the usual inquires where made and the GSoP goverment made the exscuse of a computer problem at an International Airport had delyaed the diplomats in-definintly.
OOC: Are there any communis countries?

Inside Quinntonia A shady, blond-hired man walked out of a dark alley way that lead to a leading military-manufacter and he continued to walk to a darker side of the town with the usual peek-shows and adult-movie stores and walked into one. The usher seeing him showed him to a room not listed in the city plans for the building and sat down in a tin fold-able chair. Another man walked in and he carried a manilla folder which he gave to the man and the man exchanged a tube mostly seened at architecture builders buisnesses.

OOC: How was that? Don't want to sound extremely annoying but.... Now can I join? I can make exceptions. And about the inquries of the Pro-Communist countries I just made up and if you want to do something else thats okay. Also with the Quinntonia thing I decided to expand on since the buisness that the shady dude was spying on was privatly owned so....The govermnt really couldn't do anything about it.

OOC:
Well there is a rahter large and occasionally powerful "Progressive Block" active in AMW, with the principle players being the two indias (LRR and Beth Gellert) and the Strainist Nations of the Lyong Penisula (Spyr, Tord and North Yaman IIRC). It gets tricky labelling people with the term "communist" as we have a such a large variety of left leaning/socialist/anarchist states msot of whom really don't conform to the Russian Communist model of the 20th century. (my appologies to anyone if i miss labelled them, i occasionally find it hard to keep track of where exactly you all lie on any imaginary scale).

While it may be not be obvious quite a lot of the players tend towards a more middle ground or at least there are largish vaguely rightwing antions who relaly tend to get on fairly well with the progressive block.

To be honest your anti communist raids seem a bit too reminise of certain events immeditly prior to WW2 for it to sit entirely comfortably with the german people in my mind. While your AMW nation would perhaps have a slightly different outlook to the RL version, the scars of WW2 and the Nazi's are seemingly too deeply scored in the German national Psychie to be completely forgotten about.

Just a few of my thoughts those with slightly bigger brains maybe able to expand on this or offer far superior thoughts.

Did he just finfish saying that he was in an adult theatre district in Quintonia! LOL!
Someone should really let him know what he is saying with that.
Tsar Wingert I.

The term of my communism is if a goverment controls everything of the peoples wealth and speech ect ect... Really broad but nothing in a goverment in ever narrow. With the whole anti-communist thing in germany, it is a relative new party and its people wil have enough support because alot of them will be thinking of their familys in western berlin as they where shot trying to get across the curtain. So all in all nothing to the ecxtent of the Jews in Nazi era but some serious pressure on die-hard communists. For the most part leaning communists where not bothered with.

Bit where Dra-pol tries to figure-out what needs to be changed, added, and removed on the front page.

1) Hindustan may have made another change? I have-
-Pakistan, Indian states of Madhya Pradesh, Matharashtra, Gujarat
but suspect that this is in need of some changing? Or no?

2) Elkazor is leaving, and France is [probably not immediately free?]

3) Is Doomingsland still in Italy?

4) The Macabees has conquered Morocco, somehow?

5) Armandian Cheese is possibly about to leave? And Russia will be under the control of the Estenlands? Or no?

6) Has Al-Ahzad left? Oman and Yemen reverting to NPC status?

7) Sabir/Al-Sabir: is he still around to play Syria, Lebanon, and some Turkish provinces? If not, perhaps Yafor 2 will just re-consume the vacant Turkish states, assuming he is still around?

8) The Trucial States is gone from the UAE?

9) Kashu: is he really taking Bihar, or not joining AMW after all?

10) Moorington has an application for Germany and Austria, which doesn't seem to be going very well.

11) Bedou has a unique application for residence inside other agreeable nations, which seems to be going better.

12) Lavrageria has an almost-application to take-over the former Yugoslav republics (though I don't know whether or not they are, in AMW, former), and possibly see the rest of Belarus consumed by the Estenlands, but this is not yet in effect.

13) Anything else? I expect that I've missed something, and totally misunderstood or misrepresented something else. Possibly something to do with S/E Asia.
I'll answer what I can, Dra-Pol.
2)Yes, but he has some twists still in store first.
3) Yes.
4) Yes
5) Actually, I'm thinking of staying on in a less time demanding role. I'm hoping to start up that Future AMW idea. By the way, Estenlands gains not only Russia, but Russian possessions of Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, the Moroccan Naval Base of Tarfaya, and the protectorate of Nigeria.
6) No idea. He/she never mentioned anything, but he/she has been largely inactive.
7) Same as 6.
8) Yes, he switched over to The British Federation.
9) Yes, he is, he's just a bit inactive. He did mention that he wasn't going to be as active, which is why he chose a small state.
10) I would suggest giving Moorington a trial run RP, see how it comes out.
11) Bedou has to worry a bit about the fact that UE has pretty much stamped out Wahabbism. Check out UE's history threads. (TG him for 'em)
12) With Putin gone, Lavrageria's "sugar daddy" is effectively dead. Kind of funny considering how volatile their opinions of him were.
13) S/E Asia...Didn't Maaldathi apply to take over Thailand?

Bedou,

Recently, the Moroccan government fell to invasion from Spain. The collapse in Morocco allowed the Polisario Front to finally sieze control of Western Sahara, tranforming them from guerillas and a a million refugees stuck in Algerian camps, into the Saharawi Arab Democratic Republic.

A good thing, too, as France engineered a coup in Algeria to install a Christian vassal monarchy, giving the south to the Roiks and forcng the Saharawi to depart.

If I'm not mistaken, the Saharawi are a Bedouin people. Not that such is neccessarily important, but it may be a useful consideration as you plan AMW participation.

The term of my communism is if a goverment controls everything of the peoples wealth and speech ect ect... Really broad but nothing in a goverment in ever narrow. With the whole anti-communist thing in germany, it is a relative new party and its people wil have enough support because alot of them will be thinking of their familys in western berlin as they where shot trying to get across the curtain. So all in all nothing to the ecxtent of the Jews in Nazi era but some serious pressure on die-hard communists. For the most part leaning communists where not bothered with.

Then we have very few truely communist nations by your definition, our main leftist/progressive nations tend more towards local communes and soviets than the monolithic bulk of the russian model.

My Nazi refference was nothign to do with the Jews, hitler spent as much energy trying to stamp out and terrorise leftists as he did with any of the "lesser peoples". Not even America at its msot fanatical was ever willing to unleash the army and hit squads agaisnt its own "commie pinkos".

Yes a people could be persauded into fear of the outsider and possibely lead to supporting such actions but it would be a very long process, which would be complicated somewhat by the still present USQ and UK bases within the nation. I'm not agaisnt it per say i would just like a bit more in the way of clear details.

Dra-Poel, I'm still here and would be willing to absord Turkish PRovinces if the need arises.

A minor edit, Dra-pol; Hindustan currently consists of the Pakistani provinces of Sindh, Balochistan, and Punjab, as well as the Indian provinces of Gujarat, Maharasthra, and Madhya Pradesh, not the entirety of Pakistan as I previously had claimed.

This yields a population of around 318 million, and also avoids the tricky issue of what exactly is the state of Jammu & Kashmir. FYI, I have always assumed it to be under the control of Delhi/the extent of India's RL claim on the region, but its AMW existence is flexible.

Lavrageria, whatever you decide you have my support, and I think the former Yugoslavia is a fine choice. By the way, if you decide to have horrible things happen there as in RL, human rights-minded Hindustan won't be nearly as capable of invading you but might poke the west a good deal harder to do something about it and publish revealing and provocative photo essays.

That's just a possibility, mind, so whatever you want to do you have my vote (within reason, of course).

Bedou, it would indeed be nice to see another out of the mainstream nation/national group develop in AMW. If you are interested, Al-Ahzad's departure leaves the fate of that particular end of the Rub Al-Khali undecided, so perhaps a stronger Bedouin influence may develop there.

And Elkazor, well, I don't feel I really have anything useful to contribute to your final RP. If any Hindustanis show up in civil war-torn France, they'll likely be HAL purchasing agents looking for Aerospatiale and Dassault designers and designs to bring back to Hindustan for well-paying work/outright ripping-off.

By the way, I'll see if I can find some of the important AMW threads for Bedou and the other newcomers.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=373970

Lusaka annexes Zimbabwe, United Elias annexes Gabon, a wealth of other events happen. Good sub-saharan Africa history.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=401111

Mozambique, a little about Al-Khals.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=437298

Tsar v.s. Vladimir Putin

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=427396

Revolution in South America

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=405187

Lavrageria capitulates

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=377624

Where it starts in Lavrageria

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=385998

Al-Ahzad starts out

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=413282

Eritrea, a fine RP but never really took off, a shame that.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=414237

Bonstock's last AMW hurrah, relevance questionable

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=410358

BG invades New Caledonia

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=388786

A bit about Indonesia/Dutch East Indies

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=395983

Chiisu Sunn in Peru (Marimaia)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=374523

More Marmy.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=366297

Nepal

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=378858

Origins of AMW's NATO

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=366323

Bonstock is rather thoroughly shot through

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=375798

After Bonstock's being defeated

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=363908

A bit of background, pre-AMW I think

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=365975

More early stuff

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=356502

Myanmar

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=355706

Pre-AMW, explains why Dra-pol started it

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=339885

More pre-AMW

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=324348

A real blast from the past, some of AMW's current members are heavily involved. A mighty fine RP and loads of fun, if I might say so myself.

Just to add something to LRR's list:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=418616

The new Japan (Marimaia collapsed, Chiisu fled to Peru where Japanese expats told him of his true Japanese heritage, Chiisu then led the anti-Ringist coup and was installed as Emperor Shinseiki; that's the quickest version of that story.)

Thank you, LRR.

I am thinking of some sliiightly out-there things, as it happens.

It has suddenly begun to appeal to me to think of the Glakatahn as much more influential in AMW's ancient past. Obviously they were designed as something of a Hunnic or Mongol horde, but aren't quite either of those things, and obviously in some ways they were a little more vigarous, having survived more or less until modern times without really changing all that much.

Eastern Europe in AMW, at least in part, must have been more wild than in reality coming up to modern times, since thousands of Glakatahn persisted in the saddle, and were often able to get away with rape and pillage in the C20th. No doubt they've never had much respect for national borders.

What I'm thinking is that perhaps they've shifted constantly with the rise and fall of various empires strong enough to resist or to threaten to tame them?
Unlike the Bedouin, the Glakatahn don't ever ask permission before making a country host. Perhaps, if it existed, the Austro-Hungarian empire's demise, or otherwise some equivalent in the collapse of whomever else represents the central powers in AMW enabled the Glakatahn to come back in. No doubt this sort of thing will confuse regional history, and mess with things like the Balkan Wars of the early C20th and that, but, let's face it, can it really make them any more difficult to understand?

So, I'm thinking of having the Glakatahn split somewhere in early-modern history, possibly by the consolidation of modern Romania and the USSR's incorporation of the Estenlands. Prior to that time, most of eastern Europe would have been terrorised by the clans, and perhaps even employed them in fighting one another and the Turks and what not. While they were dominant in Lavrageria and remained wild until the late C20th and Aidarov's Republic, the Glakatahn would be just another one of the various peoples crammed together in the Balkans.

Yugoslavia, then, might be a modern invention that will only come into being if and when I succeed in this application.
The sheer scale of changes already likely in AMW history or else the disruptive and threatening influence of the Glakatahn themselves may have been sufficient to aid the break-up of such an empire as Austria-Hungary in the Balkans without the southern Slavs needing to band together. Now, though, the epic menace of the Holy League and in particular Wingert could make them see things differently, especially if they're sick of constant almost fedual-age infighting having persisted from start to finish of the C20th, hindering development. Glakatahn influence may also have enforced greater atheism and made Catholicism and Orthodoxy alike alien to a great many.
Unity will promise to bring peace and strength, and Aidarov's influence, if I can get him out of Lavrageria, might appeal to the Glakatahn and throw their settling-down into the bargain.

To anyone interested I say that I do not mean to make Yugoslavia (or whatever it ends up being called) under Aidarov (or whomever else) compete with Dra-pol and the Estenlands in terms of savage cruelty and menace, nor do I expect to turn it into a great European bastion for the progressive world.

Does any of this sound too far-fetched to anyone?

Sounds rather interesting actually... you've got my approval, at least.

Well, with Spyr and Hindustan, and arguably my own approval as a member ;) I suppose I will go ahead with this, but I think that I'll wait to hear from the Estenlands before actually doing anything. I'm off to think about exactly how Aidarov's Republic comes to a close.

I am a little concerned on how your nation coming together seems to mean that people are somehow more aethiestic. I amena, you mentioned Catholicism and Orthodoxy, but in amny of the Balkan regions today, the dominant forces are Muslim, not Christian, and there is massive influx of Protestantism into the area after the enforced aethiesm of Soviet rule came to an end. (I happen to have more than few friends in Easten Europe presently, and they have been working there for some years)
The reality is, the conflicts of that region are not very much related to religion, but rather cultural groups, who identify themselves by their religion. For instance, people born to Catholic families consider themselves Catholic, regardless of personal faith, it is just knowing who is with you and who is against you.
I guess what I am saying is that though I support yor bid in philosofically, I hope that you will reconsider robbing that colourful region of much of its culture and flavour. That, and thousands of RPs could result from the many inter-cultural bickerings as some strong leader tries to forge these disparate peoples into a modern nation, especially if you add the Lavragerian barbarians into the mix alongside Muslim, Orthodox, Protestant, Catholic, Neo-Soviets and so on.

Just a few thoughts. What do you think?

WWJD
Amen.

Oh, well, I mean, a significant Glakatahn population would in itself insert a large element of atheism. I suppose that in itself, on the face of it, it could inspire greater reliance on religion amongst terrified Christians and Muslims, but in modern times with the Glakatahn out of places to go, they've settled in the Balkans (while for a time they continued as before in Lavrageria, until there too they ran out of places to go). They and their culture were so obviously strong without gods that I'm assuming it had a big impact on the societies that consumed them.

You're quite right about the Muslim bit, of course, I'm not sure why I mentioned only Christians and not them. Oh, I suppose it's because I was trying to help establish a likely opposition to the Holy League (obviously Aidarov is likely to have that, but I wanted to set-up that the people might not disagree with him). There will likely be relgious difficulties for any administration of unification to deal with. We've got the most powerful forces in Orthodoxy on the rampage on one side, the capital of the Catholic world on another, and Muslims still another. Then at home we've got a large atheist population that is so almost by nature rather than by apathy or disaffection (that is to say, it's a more viagrous atheism and one that is a natural part of the culture rather than being grafted on to arguably Christain civilisation as it may be said to be in the western world), Protestant, Orthodox, and Catholic Christians, Muslims, blah blah. Yeah, so I would have said Muslim as well if it seemed significant :) There will be religious people, from a variety of faiths, I was just saying that there's likely to be rather different balances and attitudes, I suppose.

Haven't worked them all out, as yet!

Guys, Moorington seems pretty determined to get into AMW. Let's be a little forgiving and give him a shot, alright? I mean, honestly, if you look through this thread and read some of my posts, they aren't so hot, so why should we be so nit picky? Let 'em in.

Semi-shameless bump for my application.

Kordo, we need an RP sample and a total of how much population your claim is going to take up.

Population of the territory would be 144.3 million people.

Here is a series of story RP’s I did, I will edit this as soon as I dig up some of my good actual RP’s:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=371758
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=408281
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=415620
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=426314

Well, you seem good, but I'm a little uneasy about giving someone none of us knows such a large population base right off the bat. I'll wait for the others to chime in.

I've only had a quick look, but Kordo doesn't seem bad at a glance, however, as AC says, it is quite a big claim for someone who's a stranger to me (I don't know if anyone else knows him/her?). I'm not just saying population wise, because a lot of us are plenty bigger, but it's also a lot of space and about half a dozen RL countries, which limits space for other players to join us. I say that mainly because I think Spyr said something about Tord being possibly inclined to a role as a Mexican dictator type? That doesn't mean that we have to keep Mexico open until he shows up, but I think that it might be a bit much to basically hand over most of Central America to one newcomer right away.

I am sort of inclined to support Kordo's application on a possibly reduced scale... and maybe to encourage him to try to incorporate some of the other lands he wants over time. I don't mean join up with Mexico as some imperial powerhouse and then whip the others in his first RP in AMW, but it might be good if he joined us with a significant part of his claim and then once we all know one another a bit better perhaps expansion by fair means or foul could present new opportunity.

Or am I just being too... nosey or pushy, there? Perhaps.

As to Moorington, I'm still quite torn, myself. I really am no good at saying no to people (it's a good job I'm not pretty), and he seems quite persistant where some others have just given up after not getting an instant reply, AND I'm not terribly hung-up on working out every detail of European history before adding a new element, but I am a little hesitant to accept that he's really the same.. type of RPer as are most of us in AMW, if that makes even a bit of sense.

(If this has, as I suspect, been the worst-ever post, I can only say in my defence that I'm drinking heavily on the back of a Turkish virus :) Ale, vodka, Nationstates, and violent coughing!)

Heh, wait! LRR, we didn't annex Zimbabwe! ZANU-PF is still in power, there (unfortunately!). Tendyala's junta signed a wide-ranging treaty with Zimbabwe and was arguably the senior partner in the arrangement, but that more or less ended the Igomo-era threat of Lusaka invading Zimbabwe to depose Mugabe. Now that Igomo's back, the situation is unclear: Tendyala's fate now that he's in Zimbabwean custody will be key to deciding that (a heads up for future events, there).

We sorrrrt of annexed West Zambia (created since Lusaka includes half of Zambia to begin with, hence the name coming from that nation's capital), but the Tendyala junta responsible for that suffered heavy losses against LARC fighters who refused to accept Igomo's overthrow and fled to W.Zambia to fight on, and was never really able to exert full control over day to day life. Again, now that Igomo's back, it is unlikely that West Zambia will be administered entirely by Lusaka. However, it is indisputable that W.Z. is considered to be within the Lusakan sphere of influence, and without Lusaka's co-operation it would likely not be a viable state.

New players can take-over Zimbabwe and even change it radically, but I would oppose it if they were not prepared to at least co-operate with me early on (OOC, not necessarily IC) and accept that Mugabe existed and that recent history was set... after that they'd be quite free to screw with my plans if they like! Similar for West Zambia.

I'd like to inquire if it was still possible to join AMW. If so I humbly request to control Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Belize, Honduras Nicaragua and Costa Rica.

The nation would be called The Republic of Mexico and basically the idea is that Emperor Maximilian of Hapsburg who ruled Mexico in RL from 1832 to 1867, is never executed, but retains power after aid arrives from his home nation and family in Austria-Hungary. He than continues rules Mexico until he dies in 1902. After that a series of Austrian/Mexican leaders control Mexico, while an influx of Austrian culture influences Mexican culture. After World War One and the destruction of Austria-Hungary and in a large part Germany as well, many exiles and royalists from those nations flee to Mexico. Members of the Austro-Hungarian and German royal family intermarry and create the Mexican royal family which does have some Native American/Mexican/Hispanic blood mixed in there. While America and much of the world slips into economic depression, Mexico with armies paid by parts of the German and AH royal treasuries, advances on and conquers much of Central America. It quietly supports the Nazis during WWII if only because of the royal families ethnic ties, and after WWII is over many Germans flee to Mexico again influencing its culture and giving it a more European/German feel. I hope this makes sense because I wrote it rather quickly and if this conflicts with anything that has happened so far in AMW I am willing to change the back story (assuming I get accepted).

If you wish proof of my RP'ing skill's I will be more than willing to provide links to help you in your evaluation. Thank you for considering my request to join.

I am disposed to support this claim, though I wil not give it a sponsirship myself. That, and I also think that we should really look at how a claim this large would influcne the balance of power in the world, especially with Roycelandia and Quinntonia as yout two major nieghbours.

Again, I would be sad not to see some major Mexican influence in the culture. So, what would be the relationship with Royce and Quinntonia? I ask this mostly because I have RPed an extremely close relationship with Mexico on a number of occasions.
WWJD
Amen.

I was going to say, I think AMW does need a Central American influence- but as Quinn says, You've got two of the major AMW powers as your Neighbours.

I think the major divergence point for the area is the Conquest of The New World... The Spanish showed up in the 1500s and engaged in a long and bloody war with the fledgling Roycelandian Empire (we had trading outposts and a few colonies in West Africa by then), and eventually the Roycelandians won, forcing the Spanish to look elsewhere-ie, Mexico and Latin America.

The problem is, eventually the Spanish left- so what stopped Roycelandia from simply moving in and annexing most of Central America? The situation with Maximilian I and so on occurred in the late 1840s, just as Roycelandia was really getting into carving an Empire in Africa- and it would have been exactly the sort of thing we'd do to send in the Imperial Guard and try and expand the Empire some more.

Was there a Treaty? Some Trade? Quinntonian Protection? Gentleman's Agreement? Just some things to think about...

And that's before we get into the whole Pancho Villa thing... perhaps Roycelandia supported General Villa? That's the sort of thing we'd do... we love meddling in 3rd world countries, and especially when there's a Revolution involved! :-)

There is the whole wars with Mexico, Texas independence, annexation of California and so on that we nee dto consider. It is not as though the Quinntonian founding fathers were against expansion.

WWJD
Amen.

I'd like to inquire if it was still possible to join AMW. If so I humbly request to control Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Belize, Honduras Nicaragua and Costa Rica.

The nation would be called The Republic of Mexico and basically the idea is that Emperor Maximilian of Hapsburg who ruled Mexico in RL from 1832 to 1867, is never executed, but retains power after aid arrives from his home nation and family in Austria-Hungary. He than continues rules Mexico until he dies in 1902. After that a series of Austrian/Mexican leaders control Mexico, while an influx of Austrian culture influences Mexican culture. After World War One and the destruction of Austria-Hungary and in a large part Germany as well, many exiles and royalists from those nations flee to Mexico. Members of the Austro-Hungarian and German royal family intermarry and create the Mexican royal family which does have some Native American/Mexican/Hispanic blood mixed in there. While America and much of the world slips into economic depression, Mexico with armies paid by parts of the German and AH royal treasuries, advances on and conquers much of Central America. It quietly supports the Nazis during WWII if only because of the royal families ethnic ties, and after WWII is over many Germans flee to Mexico again influencing its culture and giving it a more European/German feel. I hope this makes sense because I wrote it rather quickly and if this conflicts with anything that has happened so far in AMW I am willing to change the back story (assuming I get accepted).

If you wish proof of my RP'ing skill's I will be more than willing to provide links to help you in your evaluation. Thank you for considering my request to join.

Belize is part of UE lest anyone forget...other than that this sounds quite interesting. Of course that would make cousin Max's descendants the only surviving Hapbsburg line, very ironic. I'm not quite sure what would have happened to the Juanistas though....

Another query is the economic and military power you envision for the area. I'm not sure AMW has room for another First World projection-capable power...

That is a very good piont, I am thinking that expecting a fully industrialised power would be completely iunrealistic, that nation would have to be something of a backward state, if not perhapsbarely industrialised. I wouldn't go so far as to say Third World, but you get the idea.
WWJD
Amen.

Belize is part of UE lest anyone forget...other than that this sounds quite interesting. Of course that would make cousin Max's descendants the only surviving Hapbsburg line, very ironic. I'm not quite sure what would have happened to the Juanistas though....

What about the Hapsburgs that survive to this day in Austria?

I am disposed to support this claim, though I wil not give it a sponsirship myself. That, and I also think that we should really look at how a claim this large would influcne the balance of power in the world, especially with Roycelandia and Quinntonia as yout two major nieghbours.

Again, I would be sad not to see some major Mexican influence in the culture. So, what would be the relationship with Royce and Quinntonia? I ask this mostly because I have RPed an extremely close relationship with Mexico on a number of occasions.
WWJD
Amen.

Thank you for your unofficial support. And don't worry I didn't mean that Mexican culture would be destroyed, merely that for example, it would not be uncommon for to walk down a street in Mexico City and here German being spoken, or that some building would have a more European feel to them. By modern times of course, Mexican/Hispanic culture would have reiserted itself for the most part.


I think the major divergence point for the area is the Conquest of The New World... The Spanish showed up in the 1500s and engaged in a long and bloody war with the fledgling Roycelandian Empire (we had trading outposts and a few colonies in West Africa by then), and eventually the Roycelandians won, forcing the Spanish to look elsewhere-ie, Mexico and Latin America.

The problem is, eventually the Spanish left- so what stopped Roycelandia from simply moving in and annexing most of Central America? The situation with Maximilian I and so on occurred in the late 1840s, just as Roycelandia was really getting into carving an Empire in Africa- and it would have been exactly the sort of thing we'd do to send in the Imperial Guard and try and expand the Empire some more.

Was there a Treaty? Some Trade? Quinntonian Protection? Gentleman's Agreement? Just some things to think about...

And that's before we get into the whole Pancho Villa thing... perhaps Roycelandia supported General Villa? That's the sort of thing we'd do... we love meddling in 3rd world countries, and especially when there's a Revolution involved! :-)

Maybe the fact that Austria-Hungary and Germany was going to get involved anyway? Or maybe they 'persuaded' you or paid you off into not attacking me. And it would give you a reason to support Villa. You simply regreted your earlier act of self-control.

Another query is the economic and military power you envision for the area. I'm not sure AMW has room for another First World projection-capable power...

The nation I'm invisioning would be a kind of 2nd world nation. More industrialized than modern-day Afganistan but not as much as the US or UK. My military would be based more on size than technology. Kind of like Russia's army. Without nukes. Maybe. ;)

As to the matter of the independence of Texas and such, maybe the government sold it to Quinntonian or simply were imbroiled in a temporary civil war at the moment.

Guys, what about Moorington?

And Kordo, how about you try to go for a smaller area first?

(Can someone TG Tord? Spyr, you know his plans better than we do.)

I know Kordo fairly well and can vouch for him, if anyone cares.

Thanks for the support Yafor 2!

Armandian Cheese: I guess I'm willing to start with a smaller area, but obviously I would like to start with the territory I requested. (minus Belize which I think someone said was taken)

Well, I think he'd agree we ought not hold off on another bid... I think he'll be happy with Argentina or Brazil as an alternate if Kordo's bid is approved. As for Moorington, he sounds a lot like Xiaguo did first starting out, which may or may not be reason for concern, so I'll leave it to the Europeans to approve. In both cases, the suggested 'provisional membership' might serve to identify where people hope to go with their nations, and if that direction is compatible with us.

Heh, wait! LRR, we didn't annex Zimbabwe! ZANU-PF is still in power, there (unfortunately!). Tendyala's junta signed a wide-ranging treaty with Zimbabwe and was arguably the senior partner in the arrangement, but that more or less ended the Igomo-era threat of Lusaka invading Zimbabwe to depose Mugabe. Now that Igomo's back, the situation is unclear: Tendyala's fate now that he's in Zimbabwean custody will be key to deciding that (a heads up for future events, there).

We sorrrrt of annexed West Zambia (created since Lusaka includes half of Zambia to begin with, hence the name coming from that nation's capital), but the Tendyala junta responsible for that suffered heavy losses against LARC fighters who refused to accept Igomo's overthrow and fled to W.Zambia to fight on, and was never really able to exert full control over day to day life. Again, now that Igomo's back, it is unlikely that West Zambia will be administered entirely by Lusaka. However, it is indisputable that W.Z. is considered to be within the Lusakan sphere of influence, and without Lusaka's co-operation it would likely not be a viable state.

New players can take-over Zimbabwe and even change it radically, but I would oppose it if they were not prepared to at least co-operate with me early on (OOC, not necessarily IC) and accept that Mugabe existed and that recent history was set... after that they'd be quite free to screw with my plans if they like! Similar for West Zambia.


Oh, oh my! Well, Mugabe is a bit of a problem then. I can't imagine Mumbai supporting Robert Mugabe very much, if he behaves like he does in the real world.

But thanks for clearing that up.

I really have no problem with Moorington, since Spain's RL history with modern Germany is rather limited anyways - except for the sending of the Blue Division, which is not necessary for my own history. Consequently, I'll be sticking out of the argument of his approval, since I have nothing to say.

Well then, if they're both still interested, it looks like we're about ready to let Moorington and Kordo write introductory RPs, really?

What are the final claims, then?

Moorington is: Germany and Austria? Or is it to be parts of Germany and not others? Any part of Poland? Hard to say what the population will be without settling that, but presumably around ninety million or something.

Kordo is: Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica? Because Belize is indeed United Elias territory. Which would be about 143 million or so people?

That will mean that between Hudecia, Quinntonia, Roycelandia, Kordo, and United Elias, all of North America is now occupied save possibly Panama? I know the canal zone has been under Quinntonian protection, but it's not the whole country, right?

Then there's still Bedou's claim to work out, and it doesn't look like anyone's going to try to stop Lavrageria's move?

A complete aside, here: the term 2nd World was meant to refer to the Soviet-bloc, while 1st World referenced its opponents, and 3rd World the none-aligned leftovers. Of course, since the 1st world consisted of the likes of the US, Canada, the UK, and so on, while the 2nd was Russia and its satellites and the 3rd anyone that nobody cared about, it usually works out that the 2nd world nations are economically above the left-over chaffe and below the rest. Still, in AMW, I don't know if the scale applies at all, since even before the old 2nd world collapsed, Hindustan existed as a model for the current progressive bloc, but certainly could not be called aligned to the 2nd world. Modern Igovians would be horribly insulted by being called either 1st or 2nd world, but to call them 3rd would would imply none-alignment, which is clearly incorrect.

I'm guessing we just apply it as an economic/living standard measure.

Uh. I remember the headaches from seminars trying to cope with terms like 'First World'... theyre too bloody subjective. I once had a professor who'd fail anyone who used the term 'the West'. Four months with the diploma and I'm already starting to slip...

That probably won't help, much, AC. Lavrageria and Beth Gellert had economies that consumed about the same ammount per capita, but the typical Beddgelen probably lives in relative luxury next to his Lavragerian equivalent.
I think that it would certainly remain a political thing, possibly referencing the progressive, Christian theocratic, and other blocs, or something like that. Of course that might end up lumping Quinntonia in with Spain and then Spain invading Gibraltar and getting into a war with Quinntonia, so we'd all better get some headache tablets at the ready!

Well, if people are going to leave it up to the Europeans, here I am, I absolutely and unequivecally do not think that Moorington should be allowed such an economically and militarilly powerful region in Europe. I think that he has proven through his lack of understanding of the flavour and rules of AMW that he is unsuitable to suddenly become a major world power. I guess I would be more comfortable if he claimed like, Poland or something, a kind of middle to lower power, but this claim of Germany-Austria absolutley rubs me the wrong way. I mean based on his early comments, does he even understand what modern tech RP is? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember him hinting at some "just-future" tech stuff.

I am completely uncomfortabke with him, and that being said, rmemebr that he is wanting to play Kaiser, making him a possible candidate for the HL. I would rather pass up this formidable ally than see him do major damage to AMW.

And as far as I can find, he still has noty put in a formal claim.

Tsar Wingert I.

Hm, well, this is likely to be a pretty big problem, eh, if he's surrounded by the HL, especially. We need to hire somebody to politely decline applicants, because I certainly don't want to do it :)

Well, I don't think blatantly telling him he can't be a part of the AMW groups is the wrong thing to do. I mean, unless you all think that the best policy for AMW is not to grow.

Now, we're never going to get a Germany that agrees to play a less industrialized nation in the world, frankly because Germany, throughout the last thousand years of history, as been not only the major power in Europe (beginning with Otto I in the 13th century), but since two hundred years ago, in the world.

Consequently, to dismiss Moorington because of his idea of a German power wouldn't be healthy at all for AMW. Furthermore, I myself had a lot of problems when I began, and I still do, since I consider myself a 'noob' when playing AMW (as I always start wars, and I never start a roleplay consisting of Spanish development...I plan to change this once I'm done with Portugal). But, I'm slowly growing out of said problems.

I think we should give Moorington a chance to start an introduction role play, and I implore him to take as much time as possible for those posts, because that's what we're going to 'grade' him off.

Just my two cents.

Hi there, I'm technically in the AMW as Tord, or I was, though I neglected to post much at all.
At any rate I'm wanting to join the AMW as Argentina.
I will in fact be posting and getting involved in RP with this one.
My vision for the Argentina I wish to play is a dictatorship that wrestles with its powerfully independent military and its generals for rule.
I need to do a bit of research on Argentina for certain specifics, but the government and nation structure I have in mind is pretty mapped out, I'll be posting the details asap; I just wanted to get my foot in the door for Argentina.

I don't think taht anyone was saying that Moorington couldn't play due to his being a major power, it was that we all understand that Germany is a major power and we don't have confidence in his ability to play with that much power and responsibility.
Tord, welcome back, does this mean that we can't count on Tord continuing in Lyong, or are you comletely giving it over to the Strainists now?
WWJD
Amen.

Hi there, I'm technically in the AMW as Tord, or I was, though I neglected to post much at all.
At any rate I'm wanting to join the AMW as Argentina.
I will in fact be posting and getting involved in RP with this one.
My vision for the Argentina I wish to play is a dictatorship that wrestles with its powerfully independent military and its generals for rule.
I need to do a bit of research on Argentina for certain specifics, but the government and nation structure I have in mind is pretty mapped out, I'll be posting the details asap; I just wanted to get my foot in the door for Argentina.

Sounds great, though I should imagine TBF will be getting nervous with another Generalissimo mouthing off about the Malvinas ;)

Here's a brief history of my planned AMW Argentina:

1810:Rebellion begins against Spain, which controls Argentina as a colony.

1816 - Independance officially declared, as the United Provinces of La Plata.

1828 - Uruguay and Paraguay make declarations confirming their independence from La Plata. La Plata becomes Argentina.

1833 - British troops occupy the Argentinan Islas Malvinas, known to the British as the Falklands. The local Spanish-speaking population is forcibly removed by the occupiers. Argentina continues to claim rightful ownership of the islands.

1852-1859 - Several provinces attempt to secede from Argentina, but are brought back into line.

1864-1870 - The Guera de la Triple Alianza breaks out, with the three allies of Uruguay Brazil and Argentina going to war with Paraguay after border disputes and Paraguayan agression and military buildup. At the end of the war in 1870, Paraguay's population was halved, with 90% of its men dead along with women and children. The three allies annexed large swathes of Paraguayan territory.

1880-1890 - Economy remains stable and growing. Native groups are defeated militarily and suppressed.

1914-1918 - Argentina declares neutrality in the First World War.

1939-44 - Argentina adopts a policy of 'pro-Axis neutrality' in the Second World War.

1945 - Argentina declares war on the Axis in the closing days of the war. Many high Nazi officials flee to Argentina and are granted safe haven, the government hoping to take advantage of their technological experience.

1946 - Military officer Juan Peron, who as a minister had engaged in crackdowns on socialists and labourers while boosting wages and work conditions, is elected President.

1947-54 - Peron forms the Peronist Party and engages in a fascistic programme... increasing benefits for his powerbase amongst the working poor, nationalizing key industries, creating a personality cult. His popular wife Evita successfully campaigns for women's suffrage, and when she dies Peron alienates the Catholic Church by pushing to have her canonized. Unfortunately, the economy takes a downturn after the war as American grain beats out Argentinan in European markets under the Marshall Plan, while Peron alienates the wealthy by granting further wage increases to striking workers. A Comision Nacional de Energia Atomica is established to investigate nuclear energy.

1955 - Peron attempts to mobilize his supporters to defend him as the Army, whose officer corps is primarily from wealthy conservative families, becomes more and more rebellious. The Army finally starts a coup, and Peron resigns the Presidency a few days later, going into exile in Franco's Spain.

1956-1972 - Argentina's economy is liberalized then re-nationalized repeatedly and to varying degrees, but the economy fails to improve. A series of elected Presidents, coups, and military juntas pass in quick succession, with the military attempting to eliminate Peronist (still popular with the masses) and Communist influence. Peron attempts to return twice, and succeeds the second time.

1972-1974 - Juan Peron returns from exile and wins the Presidency at age 77. He dies soon after, and is succeeded by his wife Isabel. Argentina’s first nuclear reactor enters commercial operation, and a secret nuclear weapons program begins.

1975-1981 - The 'Dirty War'. Socialist guerillas, students, and general unrest emerge while the economy stumbles. Up to 10,000 people disappear at the hands of the Argentine military. Isabel Peron is impeached, and a series of military generals rule the country, some militaristic with the intention of expanding the military and its capabilities, others Peronist, providing programs such as free bread for the hungry.

1982 - In an attempt to divert attention from domestic difficulties, an attempt is made to recapture the Islas Malvinas (Falklands) from Britain. The attempt succeeds at first, but the British counterattack is even more successful, taking back the islands and capturing thousands of Argentine soldiers (who surrendered). The loss here does not force Argentina to withdraw its claim to the Malvinas, but the peace agreement includes a clause banning Argentina from attempting to take the territory by force. Confidence in the military government is severely shaken.

(that's the end of RL history, in RL, The military government is forced to return power to an elected civil administration in 1983.)

--AMW history--

1983: A young Peronist officer (22) handsome with a twinkle in his eye unlike those old incompetent generals. He convinces the people that loss in the Malvinas is because the military junta is too old, too conservative, that change is needed. He promises employment, soup, and national pride if they stand with him.
This officer is the future dictator. He's slightly idealistic but he's not a peasant boy. Like other officers he's from a rich family. He's just been cut out of power by the senior officers in government, and this is his chance to go 'over their heads' and take the whole thing with the helpful coincidence of a people's rage.
the generals have suffered a huge loss and have no support and this disorder is the perfect breeding ground for nastry commies and other foreign powers to do worse.
But now there's this arrogant little upstart colonel, generals never liked him, to obsessed with maintaining style and appearance, not enough with military matters. But at least he's in uniform and its better than a democrat or a dreaded commie! Anything to stop this unrest quickly.
He's promoted to general and made president. Now he needs to satisfy the military and provide enough wealth for the people or else risk a coup.
My president needs to ham it up in front of the cameras in order to maintain popularity with the masses, which are his powerbase, keeping the army at bay. The Army remains outside his area of control, he could never force them to do something they didn't want to but he keeps the military from being unified by paying off Army, Air force, Navy, and inidividual unit commanders hoping internal disputes will keep them from plannign a coup.

The newly installed dictator needs to fix things. The glow of the people's support may fade if nothing changes, and the military is dangerously capable of staging another coup. So, he sets about trying to satisfy both. He expands government industries for arms production, and accepts more volunteers into the army, reducing unemployment. He negotiates deals to trade Argentina's grain and beef exports to other oppressive dictatorships (such as the FRB), replacing lost European/North American markets. He engages in a massive currency reform. The economy stabilizes.
But he still has a population whose nationalism is still reeling from military defeat... socialist and democratic thought could flourish if they arent united by a substantive victory. And, his own position is in jeopardy, as he is not a military man, he's never fired a shot... he needs to make himself a war hero to cement his position as President. The army is also eager for battle. They are shamed by their loss, but now have an increased number of men and equipment. There just needs to be an excuse. Any excuse.

Paraguay is the target. The excuse occurs almost by accident... a squad of badly-trained new Argentine army recruits encounters a group of armed drug smugglers (who are frequently found in and around Paraguay). There is a firefight, caught partially on a camcorder, in which several Argentines are wounded or killed by assailants who cannot be seen.
This might be an embarassment, but not with such a media-savvy dictator.
A group of argentine commandos on the border shoot a pair of uniformed Paraguayan border police, and drag them over. The Argentine government presents its own casualties and the Paraguayan dead as victims of the firefight, and declare it an act of agression against Argentine sovreignty, a Paraguayan invasion... Argentine population is reminded of the agressive Paraguayan buildup in 1864, and are reminded that, then, as now, Argentina stood up against their belligerence in the name of justice and peace.

Argentina points out that Paraguay is a den of corruption (arms smuggling, drug running, & government corruption there are well documented, and almost all cars in Paraguay were stolen from neighbouring countries).
Paraguay accuses Argentina of belligerence and trickery. Argentina declares its national pride insulted, and that a cesspool such as Paraguay's government cannot be trusted. Argentine troops cross the border into Paraguay.
The Argentine army is much larger than its counterpart, and better equipped. It wins several victories in the first week of conflict. Paraguay sends pleas to its neighbours.
Paraguay has big friends, but Argentina responds with a light in the sky. An underground detonation in Argentine Antarctica heralds the naion's re-entry into the nuclear age. The dictator politely announces that Argentina has a nuclear weapon and that, in an unrelated matter, would everyone stay out of an internal Argentin-Paraguay matter which will shortly be resolved by Paraguay's surrender.
Argentina formally annexes Paraguay.

The years after the war see the occupation of Paraguay by a large army concentration. Cooperation is rewarded, with collaborators living quite well, but resisance is crushed mercilessly. There is however continued operation of Paraguayan guerillas in the far north of their former state.

Over the remaining years between then (87-88) and Present, the economy remains stable, without massive inflation. The President, now a war hero continues to enjoy popular support while working behind the scenes to maintain his image and the balance of power between military elements.

I'll post the main personalities of Argentina asap as well.

thanks I look forward to rp-ing this in AMW.

So, then is the new claim goignt to be both Paraguay and Argentina then?
WWJD
Amen.

Okay I am imagining Austria and Germany in my country and maybe the Sudenland (Or my beginning post can be letting the German-Austrians picking what country they want to be in). My communist ant-squads are semi realistic when you think that Mcartherism was the same as this except inside a court (Rosenbourns). Also it seems some players are getting a kick out of the whole adult district in my begining post so it was used because that is the best way to slip a tail (Hypothetically). Okay so there is communism but not the Communists Dictaorship of Russia/USSR. So I will just start a begining RP and just see what happens. Also it would be helpful to know what colnies I have left.

IC: In a goverment boost of the space program the scientist Vardner Von Brwan was a very happy man. After a good day in the office it was good to know that the Germans where probably going to have thier own Space Program going in full swing. (The only SPs I know of are US's, Russia's, and China's.)
The communists were in full retreat from Germany and some fence sitters where jumping off running to get away from the communist side.
The SDU1 walked quitly through the apartment and 4 two a door. When the walkie talkie for a certian member named Fuasneer Rhinevark Ghoner smashed the door in and right before them was a group of people swingin beers and cards in front of a picture of (A communist founder guy) and they tried to go for thier assorted AK-47s and MP5s but where cut down and a quick search revealed money, fake passports, and some RPGs and some mementos of communis orgin.
Another Press Conference by the Kaiser began in front of the his Personnal Palace. "Yes I belive that communism will be a big component to this coming election and do not worry about the latest communist riots." A reporter broke in, "What about the popular support inside the Sudenland is at a new time high what are you going to do with that? The Kaiser looked at the reporter up and down and shrugged as he tulked, "I would say that would be up to the people to decide and I hope that the people will always have a choice in what they want."

PS: Oh and officialy I wnat to ask for a memebership in AMW and I don't have an accurate idea for the population for Austria and Germany (Mostly the Austria Part) I am looking at the CIA Factbook for answers in a second or two.

Here's a brief history of my planned AMW Argentina:

1810:Rebellion begins against Spain, which controls Argentina as a colony.

1816 - Independance officially declared, as the United Provinces of La Plata.

1828 - Uruguay and Paraguay make declarations confirming their independence from La Plata. La Plata becomes Argentina.

1833 - British troops occupy the Argentinan Islas Malvinas, known to the British as the Falklands. The local Spanish-speaking population is forcibly removed by the occupiers. Argentina continues to claim rightful ownership of the islands.

1852-1859 - Several provinces attempt to secede from Argentina, but are brought back into line.

1864-1870 - The Guera de la Triple Alianza breaks out, with the three allies of Uruguay Brazil and Argentina going to war with Paraguay after border disputes and Paraguayan agression and military buildup. At the end of the war in 1870, Paraguay's population was halved, with 90% of its men dead along with women and children. The three allies annexed large swathes of Paraguayan territory.

1880-1890 - Economy remains stable and growing. Native groups are defeated militarily and suppressed.

1914-1918 - Argentina declares neutrality in the First World War.

1939-44 - Argentina adopts a policy of 'pro-Axis neutrality' in the Second World War.

1945 - Argentina declares war on the Axis in the closing days of the war. Many high Nazi officials flee to Argentina and are granted safe haven, the government hoping to take advantage of their technological experience.

1946 - Military officer Juan Peron, who as a minister had engaged in crackdowns on socialists and labourers while boosting wages and work conditions, is elected President.

1947-54 - Peron forms the Peronist Party and engages in a fascistic programme... increasing benefits for his powerbase amongst the working poor, nationalizing key industries, creating a personality cult. His popular wife Evita successfully campaigns for women's suffrage, and when she dies Peron alienates the Catholic Church by pushing to have her canonized. Unfortunately, the economy takes a downturn after the war as American grain beats out Argentinan in European markets under the Marshall Plan, while Peron alienates the wealthy by granting further wage increases to striking workers. A Comision Nacional de Energia Atomica is established to investigate nuclear energy.

1955 - Peron attempts to mobilize his supporters to defend him as the Army, whose officer corps is primarily from wealthy conservative families, becomes more and more rebellious. The Army finally starts a coup, and Peron resigns the Presidency a few days later, going into exile in Franco's Spain.

1956-1972 - Argentina's economy is liberalized then re-nationalized repeatedly and to varying degrees, but the economy fails to improve. A series of elected Presidents, coups, and military juntas pass in quick succession, with the military attempting to eliminate Peronist (still popular with the masses) and Communist influence. Peron attempts to return twice, and succeeds the second time.

1972-1974 - Juan Peron returns from exile and wins the Presidency at age 77. He dies soon after, and is succeeded by his wife Isabel. Argentina’s first nuclear reactor enters commercial operation, and a secret nuclear weapons program begins.

1975-1981 - The 'Dirty War'. Socialist guerillas, students, and general unrest emerge while the economy stumbles. Up to 10,000 people disappear at the hands of the Argentine military. Isabel Peron is impeached, and a series of military generals rule the country, some militaristic with the intention of expanding the military and its capabilities, others Peronist, providing programs such as free bread for the hungry.

1982 - In an attempt to divert attention from domestic difficulties, an attempt is made to recapture the Islas Malvinas (Falklands) from Britain. The attempt succeeds at first, but the British counterattack is even more successful, taking back the islands and capturing thousands of Argentine soldiers (who surrendered). The loss here does not force Argentina to withdraw its claim to the Malvinas, but the peace agreement includes a clause banning Argentina from attempting to take the territory by force. Confidence in the military government is severely shaken.

(that's the end of RL history, in RL, The military government is forced to return power to an elected civil administration in 1983.)

--AMW history--

1983: A young Peronist officer (22) handsome with a twinkle in his eye unlike those old incompetent generals. He convinces the people that loss in the Malvinas is because the military junta is too old, too conservative, that change is needed. He promises employment, soup, and national pride if they stand with him.
This officer is the future dictator. He's slightly idealistic but he's not a peasant boy. Like other officers he's from a rich family. He's just been cut out of power by the senior officers in government, and this is his chance to go 'over their heads' and take the whole thing with the helpful coincidence of a people's rage.
the generals have suffered a huge loss and have no support and this disorder is the perfect breeding ground for nastry commies and other foreign powers to do worse.
But now there's this arrogant little upstart colonel, generals never liked him, to obsessed with maintaining style and appearance, not enough with military matters. But at least he's in uniform and its better than a democrat or a dreaded commie! Anything to stop this unrest quickly.
He's promoted to general and made president. Now he needs to satisfy the military and provide enough wealth for the people or else risk a coup.
My president needs to ham it up in front of the cameras in order to maintain popularity with the masses, which are his powerbase, keeping the army at bay. The Army remains outside his area of control, he could never force them to do something they didn't want to but he keeps the military from being unified by paying off Army, Air force, Navy, and inidividual unit commanders hoping internal disputes will keep them from plannign a coup.

The newly installed dictator needs to fix things. The glow of the people's support may fade if nothing changes, and the military is dangerously capable of staging another coup. So, he sets about trying to satisfy both. He expands government industries for arms production, and accepts more volunteers into the army, reducing unemployment. He negotiates deals to trade Argentina's grain and beef exports to other oppressive dictatorships (such as the FRB), replacing lost European/North American markets. He engages in a massive currency reform. The economy stabilizes.
But he still has a population whose nationalism is still reeling from military defeat... socialist and democratic thought could flourish if they arent united by a substantive victory. And, his own position is in jeopardy, as he is not a military man, he's never fired a shot... he needs to make himself a war hero to cement his position as President. The army is also eager for battle. They are shamed by their loss, but now have an increased number of men and equipment. There just needs to be an excuse. Any excuse.

Paraguay is the target. The excuse occurs almost by accident... a squad of badly-trained new Argentine army recruits encounters a group of armed drug smugglers (who are frequently found in and around Paraguay). There is a firefight, caught partially on a camcorder, in which several Argentines are wounded or killed by assailants who cannot be seen.
This might be an embarassment, but not with such a media-savvy dictator.
A group of argentine commandos on the border shoot a pair of uniformed Paraguayan border police, and drag them over. The Argentine government presents its own casualties and the Paraguayan dead as victims of the firefight, and declare it an act of agression against Argentine sovreignty, a Paraguayan invasion... Argentine population is reminded of the agressive Paraguayan buildup in 1864, and are reminded that, then, as now, Argentina stood up against their belligerence in the name of justice and peace.

Argentina points out that Paraguay is a den of corruption (arms smuggling, drug running, & government corruption there are well documented, and almost all cars in Paraguay were stolen from neighbouring countries).
Paraguay accuses Argentina of belligerence and trickery. Argentina declares its national pride insulted, and that a cesspool such as Paraguay's government cannot be trusted. Argentine troops cross the border into Paraguay.
The Argentine army is much larger than its counterpart, and better equipped. It wins several victories in the first week of conflict. Paraguay sends pleas to its neighbours.
Paraguay has big friends, but Argentina responds with a light in the sky. An underground detonation in Argentine Antarctica heralds the naion's re-entry into the nuclear age. The dictator politely announces that Argentina has a nuclear weapon and that, in an unrelated matter, would everyone stay out of an internal Argentin-Paraguay matter which will shortly be resolved by Paraguay's surrender.
Argentina formally annexes Paraguay.

The years after the war see the occupation of Paraguay by a large army concentration. Cooperation is rewarded, with collaborators living quite well, but resisance is crushed mercilessly. There is however continued operation of Paraguayan guerillas in the far north of their former state.

Over the remaining years between then (87-88) and Present, the economy remains stable, without massive inflation. The President, now a war hero continues to enjoy popular support while working behind the scenes to maintain his image and the balance of power between military elements.

I'll post the main personalities of Argentina asap as well.

thanks I look forward to rp-ing this in AMW.

Hmmn, I have slight issue with Argentina being nuclear capable. I believe there is a consensus in AMW for fewer nuclear powers, and quite frankly a regional superpower is not really what we are after. What we need is more smaller, weaker nations, in my opinion...more like Strathdonia etc. The thing is in reality, the Argentine economy could never be as stable as you make out, especially under a regime which forces a good proportion of its workforce into the military.

Hm, yeah, one might wonder how Argentina, after all that instability and economic hardship prior to this new era, was able to develop a serious nuclear weapons programme. Besides that, a detonation in Antarctica would have caused a lot of reaction from many of our nations that might have changed things rather a lot for all parties. BG in the concurrent Sopworth era (1982-89) had a significant Anctarctic Patrol Flotilla that, under Sopworth's leadership, might well have acted seriously against the Argentinians for developing sucsignificant facilities on the continent, let alone testing nuclear weapons.

I'm generally supportive of Tord's new claim, I should add, but am a little nervous about some of these specifics.

Tord, I also suggest you read this thread, it contains a lot of information about AMW South America, particulaly Chile (which I'm RPing at the moment) and Peru.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=427396

Yeah, I don't think a nuclear-capable Argentina is quite a great idea at this stage. If you want to go and develop nuclear weapons be my guest, but such programs are quite expensive and are no way to suck up to the west. I think AMW's recent trend towards increased realism means that you could very well have a few, but would have to address the consequences. Conventional forces would almost surely take a hit from a nuclear program.

But besides that, you've got my approval.

On the matter of Argentina's nuclear capacity and Antarctic presence, having discussed Tord's bid and Argentine history with him earlier, both are based in RL and not particular AMW inventions. Argentina posesses the facilities to produce weapons-grade material, and was working towards a working weapon when the military lost at the Falklands and the civil government cancelled and exposed th nuclear programme.

Argentina maintains numerous antarctic facilities in RL, and has done so since at least 1904... they claim a substantial wedge of the icy continent, and continue to develop military and scientific posts there as an excercise in sovreignty, which would place Argentine development of new facilities for nuclear testing (provided they were not obviously such) as a normal event in a century-long tradition.

Still, perhaps it could be said that the RL facilities continue to suffer problems in AMW, meaning Argentina is still scrabbling to try and proceed with their secret nuclear program, and Paraguay's surrender occured quickly after invasion in the face of an Argentine blitzkrieg?

OK, sorry for so long to respond but I had to do some research and try to weed through the history threads so that my own history does not conflict--noticably.

First I want to say, I told Royce awhile back I wouldnt join AMW because I had read some threads and the RPers seemed...not to my taste...
I dont recall who they were, or the name of the thread, but the links provided to me to get some history are fabulous work-I tip my hat to the lot of you. Excellent RP work second to none.

Now, my people.

The Bedou,

The Bedou are an amalgam of traditionally Nomadic peoples who adhere to the faith of Islam.

The Bedou confederation is truthfully more of a group of strong family ties created after years of marriages among the Desert dwellers of Africa and the Arabian Peninsula who have historically managed the trade routes of ages long past.

The Bedou are composed of Bedouin fom the Arabian Peninsula (traditionally Sunni Arab) and Imashaghen(commonly:Tuareg) who are traditionally members of the Maliki Islamic sect.
This union of Sunni and Maliki several centuries ago slowly birthed a movement among the Desert dwellers towards a new sect of Islam, known now as the Wadi-Rum Sect(Wadi-Rum is named for an Oasis in the Arabian Desert).
The Bedou tribes extend into Sudan (1,000,000-the Largest Bedou Colony), in the badlands of Algeria(25,000), Libya(17,000),Tunisia (10,000), Morocco(165,000 --It is worth noting that this region is home of the Saharawi it is these people who are of mixed Berber-Arab blood where the birth of the Bedou takes place.)

The second largest but perhaps most important colony for Bedou is Rwala Colony on the Arabian Peninsula, living in the deserts between Saudi Arabia/Oman/Yemen these Bedou are tolerated by the governing parties as global affairs have kept them low on a matters of import. The UE government is secular and the relaxed practices of the Wadi-Rum style of Islam seem more accomodating to peaceful co-existance with a secular nation.
The number of Bedou on the Arabian Peninsula is approxiamtely 275,000-though the Bedou seem fully capable of winning any "bedroom war"-due to the religious beliefs held about procreation and birth control.

Globally the total Bedou population is:1,492,000
This number is subject to potential rapid growth as being Bedou is not truly an ethnic or religious distinction but rather a state of mind.
The Bedou find numerous converts among Islamic peoples as their devotion is marked, and their choice to live a "Harsh" life style is believed by many to bring them a closer understanding of God.
As well Bedou find converts among the poor oppressed and disenfranchised groups in the world as their uncanny ability to create a sense of wealth from what appears to be abject poverty becomes almost a secular inspiration to the lower rungs of society.

The military power of the Bedou is as of yet unclear, as it is rumored that nations which host Bedou tribes provide arms in exchange for Bedou to maintain the border-and on occasion expand it.

While host nations do count the Bedou as citizens, they are also typically wash their hands of the Bedou in matters where international issue would hold them responsible for the actions of other citizen groups.
The Bedou, have never claimed National mandate and as such many nations with out Bedou populations believe they are in actuality being used as indeginous mercenaries giving host governments or political factions in house guns who afford the chance for culpable deniability. Though any rumors are not supported by fact and should not be treated as such.


OOC: OK, now I believe I didnt step on anyones toes--the Bedou on the Arabian peninsula have to be OK'd --I didnt post a military because I am still unsure as to what I am working with--once I know what i am working with I will have to see what my hosts will allow--or what I can smuggle.

I hope this is sufficient--if not please tell me where I am lacking.

Bedou: The thought of adding a non-national voice into that region is something which I look forward to, especially given that it has recently become the target of substantial imperialism, and it would be nice to see occupation accompanied by the consequence of a population segment whose actions and opinions must be influenced, not controlled.
A final query, as I'm not sure if you've stated such or not: would you be wishing to take control of the Saharawi and their Western Sahara government as part of your roleplay? They've got a bit of backstory, but its all easily checked on past threads.

Thanks for having me in, the nuclear notion is dropped and will remain an impotent nuclear program.

And thanks for the heads up moorington; if ever I need repeated instructions that treats the reader like a child, I'll come straight to you. (alakazam has a "z").

To the rest I sincerely thank for the positive feedback.

My bid then is for Argentina and Paraguay, (I neglected to mention my bid for Paraguay originally, my bad Quinn) total population of 46 million. My bid includes Argenties Antartic bases; and IC my government will assert claims over the Malvinas and a large swathe of Antartica.

a map of Argentines claims:
http://www.palpitandoargentina.com/fotos/mapadeargentina2.gif

This is all pretty encouraging! A couple of weeks ago it looked as if AMW was teetering on the brink...

This is just me, but personally I quite like the idea of having moderate to minor nuclear powers (like Beth Gellert), and near-nuclear powers like Argentina keeping the nuclear issue... sort of real. If everyone had nukes, nobody would care, but with lots of people on the fringes there's plenty of reason for the rest of the world to take note and get involved.

(I know, this is no practical use to anyone, but there was booze on offer, Kelly's Heroes is on the telly, and I just bowled my brother's team out for 26 on... some cricket game I don't even know the name of, I'm hyper, darn it!)

Bedou are always welcome in Roycelandian East Africa, but again, with the proviso they keep the whole Fundamentalist thing to an absolute minimum.

And Argentina, if you're VERY nice to Roycelandia we might sell you *An* A-Bomb (1950s vintage), but no guarantees it will work!

I am sorry that my reply made you feel like a child.
The communists of TGSoP are pretty much on a full retreat out of western Europe with all of their bases inside Germany and Austria out of whack and many of their leaders daed or imprisoned. Also is there a UN in this RP or a League of Nations ect ect...
IC: In the Crezch Republic groups of Pro-Germans and Austrians where grouping in local town aquares and street corners in a peacefull protest to secede from the Crezch Republic. This was for the most part right out of Ghandi's book (The protests).
In germany a press conference had taken place for a couple of reasons but for the most part everybody on both sides knew what the real reasons where going to be about. As the Kasier approached the podum and was immediatly confronted by a truck load of questions. They where obviuosly all about directing the conversaion towards what was on everybody's mind. The annexation of the Sudenland.
"I will only follow the people's will and the people's will only." "Nothing more or nothing less then what is needed for the people." The Kaiser just pretty much stood right next to that morally and poitically un-breachable wall about it for the rest of the press conference.

thanks Moorington.
And thanks Roycelandia, I"ll have to brush up on my dimplomatic prowess. A leaky nuke is, I'm hoping, better than no nuke at all.
(right on Gellert, can't go wrong when there's booze involved!)
Also, I'm switching my account over to "Argentyna" and will go under that name from here on in.

Umm...Have we had a decision regarding Moorington?

And if we have accepted you, Moorington, we don't RP in this thread. We start individual ones for RPing, with the label (AMW) attached. This is just the recruitment thread.

OK, So I am just wondering if the first world econom is realistic for Argentina. I would like to see what has been talked about here, with a suggestion that the new nations tailor their economies in order to more realistically reflect an economy that is able to be supported by the earth.

WWJD
Amen.

Sorry to butt in but you mentioned that if we get approved (or before hand), we would need to do a introductory thread/story. Can you give more detail into this? What would this be about, just general events in my nation or would I be required to do something else? Just courious.

EDIT: BTW, what is my current status? Aproval pending, rejected, or underconsideration? ¿Qué arriba amigos?

Sorry to butt in but you mentioned that if we get approved (or before hand), we would need to do a introductory thread/story. Can you give more detail into this? What would this be about, just general events in my nation or would I be required to do something else? Just courious.

EDIT: BTW, what is my current status? Aproval pending, rejected, or underconsideration? ¿Qué arriba amigos?
Just laying out your history, current government, etc. Basically a "let's get to know each other!" type RP.

Sorry to butt in but you mentioned that if we get approved (or before hand), we would need to do a introductory thread/story. Can you give more detail into this? What would this be about, just general events in my nation or would I be required to do something else? Just courious.

EDIT: BTW, what is my current status? Aproval pending, rejected, or underconsideration? ¿Qué arriba amigos?

I don't know if you were voted in yes, but you have my vote - I've seen you RP before, and I like it. The introductory RP doesn't really have specific guidelines...mine was about a three post coup de etat in Spain, introducing the new Catalan dynasty of Emperors within the country...and it evolved into me invading Morocco and marrying the daughter of Louis XX of Bourbon.

So, it can be an RP explaining events in your nation up to now, or new events taking place in your nation. You know, just a role play to introduce yourself and your nation into the AMW community.

Bedou, I have no problem with your tribal arrangement, bedouins have always been tolerated by the government. However we would expect them to be loyal, consider themselves citizens of the nation, pay some taxes (probably in a tradtional form of tribute or something similar). As for military, some of your people would be expected to serve in the Redif's Saraya ad Difa units, here is a copy of some info about that:

The ‘Redif’ itself dates back to before the formation of the Republic, and literally means ‘Second Reserve’, an organisation supplemental to the Ottoman Sixth Army that later formed the nucleus of the Elias military. Over the years, as the organisation of the military has changed, the Redif has slowly transitioned from being a reserve to being used as also an ancillary element to supplement the army in a National Guard type role.

The ‘Redif’ effectively has two distinct elements, which compliment each other the Saraya ad Difa, which are tribal defence battalions that perform the role of a militia force, and the newer As Saiqa (The Thunderbolt). The Saraya ad Difa, is a tribal army forged out of the numerous Bedouin elements loyal to the President, and numbers approximately 171,830, with over 144,000 of that total serving in a part time, reservist capacity. The Saraya Ad Difa is formed into 154 Rifle Battalions and 25 Anti-Tank Field Gun Battalions. This force would rarely be used in anything short of a major internal crisis or an invasion of United Elias by a foreign power. In the case of the latter, the force would use guerilla tactics, and would be reasonably proficient in this role.

The As Saiqa is a professional force, formed in 1959, originally as a means to put down internal revolution against the government, and even though that threat is now unlikely, it is still practice for As Saiqa to swear loyalty to the President, rather than the State as in the other military branches. As the threat of internal rebellion from the populace has been replaced by threats to the populace from varying insurgent and terrorist groups, the As Saiqa is slowly transforming itself from a force organisation that was largely redundant to that of the military, to a counter-insurgency force in peacetime, which can in wartime use rearguard tactics to blunt enemy offensives. The force’s support units in peacetime can be directed towards a number of civil roles, while in wartime can provide secure supply lines for the mainstream military, and also co-ordinate actions by the Saraya ad Difa. As this transformation continues, the As Saiqa will lose its organic armour and artillery, but will gain more highly mobile asymmetric warfare units, that are both trained and specifically equipped to deal with unconventional enemies. The projected organisation of the As Saiqa after its reforms are completed is of 25 Regiments, strategically located around the country, each comprising 1 Motorised Tactical Battalion, 1 Special Tactical Battalion, 2 Motor Transport Battalions and 1 Combat Service Support Battalion, for a total force of 115,725. These Regiments are not only self-supporting but are designed to have excess support capability, so they can provide logistical support to the Saraya ad Difa, and if need be, the frontline military.

I'm more or less okay with the Argentina concept - one more load of military goons sending my Anarchist Federation angry eyes across the border is no biggie ;I

Also, I approve the notion of a -developing- nuclear program. Once the rest of the continent and the rest of the world notice those bunkers being built, the chemicals coming to and fro etc; it will be a good excuse to roleplay our asses off.

There is something else, though - I can't seem to locate all the new AMW threads being made, and sometimes I miss out on RP entirely because I don't know a given thread exists. Can we possibly make a bigger effort to notify one another when we start threads, as well as compile lists to ease navigation?

Tell me, Tord/Argentina... how would you like some nice Roycelandian guns and equipment? :D

About Tord/Argentina: I think economically he was planning to go by CIA factbook numbers, which would be well below 'First World' (developed) status.

About Kordo: I'm inclined to suggest that your claim be reduced, not neccessarily for demographic reasons, but because Central America would seem to offer up a wealth of roleplaying opportunities both in the political and military spheres... if the Mexican empire has swept down only through Guatemala and El Salvador, for example, a whole host of tensions and possibilities are opened up: Mexican land forces massed in the south could sweep aside almost any opposition in its smaller neighbours... what measures would United Elias have to take to secure Belize, without going far enough to provoke the attack they fear? Can Roycelandia rest easier at home facing several smaller unpredictable states, or a larger more potent Mexico? Will the Quinntonians be able to maintain both their commitment of forces to hold Hamhung against NeoSuloist unification efforts AND secure the Panama canal, or even their own southern territories? Will the collectives of Neo-Anarchos seek to bolster their Colombian frontier against yet another foe added to Chile and Argentina, putting pressure on the freedoms they so recently gained... will they seek to export those revolutionary freedoms into Central America before the boot of Mexico decends? Wll the Holy League seek out a new member to secure a powerbase in the Americas, or would that step lose them the NATO support which is becoming so neccessary as China and the Progressive Bloc align against them?

Something to think about, anyway.

About Tord/Argentina: I think economically he was planning to go by CIA factbook numbers, which would be well below 'First World' (developed) status.

About Kordo: I'm inclined to suggest that your claim be reduced, not neccessarily for demographic reasons, but because Central America would seem to offer up a wealth of roleplaying opportunities both in the political and military spheres... if the Mexican empire has swept down only through Guatemala and El Salvador, for example, a whole host of tensions and possibilities are opened up: Mexican land forces massed in the south could sweep aside almost any opposition in its smaller neighbours... what measures would United Elias have to take to secure Belize, without going far enough to provoke the attack they fear? Can Roycelandia rest easier at home facing several smaller unpredictable states, or a larger more potent Mexico? Will the Quinntonians be able to maintain both their commitment of forces to hold Hamhung against NeoSuloist unification efforts AND secure the Panama canal, or even their own southern territories? Will the collectives of Neo-Anarchos seek to bolster their Colombian frontier against yet another foe added to Chile and Argentina, putting pressure on the freedoms they so recently gained... will they seek to export those revolutionary freedoms into Central America before the boot of Mexico decends? Wll the Holy League seek out a new member to secure a powerbase in the Americas, or would that step lose them the NATO support which is becoming so neccessary as China and the Progressive Bloc align against them?

Something to think about, anyway.

I think that you have hit the nail on the head. I am very happy to support a CIA Factbook, style Argentina, that would fit weill into the world, and a reduced claim by Kordo is definately in order, though how reduced is a matter for debate.

WWJD
Amen.

Regardless, Argentina has been a first world nation before, and it was only during and after the Falkland Wars that Argentina began to lose economic prominence (some say the Falkland War was crafted to take the people's mind off economic pressures). It is to say, Argentina has the economic infrastructure to make it a first class economy once again.

So my point is, what's the difference wether it starts as a first world economy? He has full justification to 'evolve' it into one.

How about Mexico, Guatamala, Honduras and El Salvador?

That seems more reasonable to me, Kord- although expect a lot of Roycelandian Supplied Paramilitary Groups in the Central American Jungles... ;-)

puppet what puppet!

I see no puppet, Sonata Artica do sing a cool song about a puppet though...

Well then perhaps he should chose another country, more adept to the 3rd Would Country mode, because Argentina, currently, is in the process of developing into an economy as strong as the United State's - as it once was thirty years ago (RL United States mind you).

I don't see the problem with role playing another first world economy if he keeps it RL level. I play a Spain with an economy little better than that of RL Spain, however, true, I do have a bit more industrialization, but that orients itself to supplying my military with the firepower it needs (since I'm also playing a more militarized Spain, that wants to regain it's old Empire, although I doubt that will ever come true).

Regardless, if he's going to play a 3rd World Country he should chose a country that fits that role better, because playing Argentina as weak is relatively unrealistic, since Argentina's economy is not weak at all (last time I heard their currency is almost on par with that of the United States ... now that I look, it's two pesos per dollar, which is pretty damn good, when the Mexican peso is at 11 per dollar).

Yeah, Argentina's economy is going GREAT. Well, the little bits that have been taken-over by workers after the capitalists ran up tens of millions of dollars in debt, anyway.

But that really doesn't matter, since AMW is radically different to reality and a lot of countries (the Republic of India, anyone?) don't even exist here. What Q's trying to get at is that resources are consumed by different places and peoples at different rates and that trade relationships are different... and perhaps that there's only so much money that can be made in a year in the world, and in AMW the lion's share is already accounted for.

I don't think this really matters to Tord as much as to some of the rest of us... he seems to be quite happy with the intermediate strength of his Argentina's economy, unless I'm much misreading the situation.

Actually, I'm not really sure how China has modernised itself faster than its epic real-life rate given that they apprently did have the Maoist period and all that or whether Quinntonia has the markets and sources it may need since Bull's UK reduced trade over two terms (though now the conservatives are back in and presumably trashing the economy to suit) and China is presumably not re-exporting tens of billions of dollars of crap on the cheap, and Mexico may be no better for that when Kordo takes over, and Hudecian relations have been all over the place.

But, meh, we're never going to figure-out all of that and more, so I think it safe to say that we just can't fit more superpowers and, if we're going to keep having capitalists, we do need more nations that have at least a large element of poverty, unemployment, and borderline slavery... (at the moment, successful capitalist societies, who's doing all your work for you if it's not the Chinese, not the Indians, not the Indonesians, not most of the Africans, and not half the Latin Americans? The French peasantry?).

Basically, so long as some of the newcomers have large underclasses (that to one degree or other restrict the over-all power of their own national economies) I think that we're all good on them being either tiny Africanesque economies or intermediate ones actually capable of doing things like... conquering Paraguay. Making Argentina a major nuclear power would have been over the top, but making it... Mozqmbique would not be required, and, so far as I can see, never would be.

psst your puppet is showing

Oooops!
LOL!

Tsar Wingert I and definately no one else.

He, he, Quinnt. It's a poorly kept secret, considering one can just look up the early pages of this very thread...

Guys, how many times do I have to say this...a first world economy does not have to have US style consumption. The fact of the matter is that we are simply wasteful; I'll admit it. I live here, and we use up so much more than we need that it's depressing. However, one doesn't need to consume so much to have a first world economy. We can achieve a similar living standard if we ate less, drove more efficient vehicles, walked more often, etc.
And one doesn't need third world slave labor to achieve a first world economy!Let's look at it this way...

Increased price of foreign good=more likely to buy domestic ones=more money to domestic corporations=more money to domestic workers=more spending buy domestic workers=Economic gain!

Making Argentina a major nuclear power would have been over the top, but making it... Mozqmbique would not be required, and, so far as I can see, never would be.

Now just what do you mean by that?

But the size of the US economy by some measures, most of those applicable here, I think, is a matter of its production, regardless of how well said production is applied.
I don't see how domestic workers having more money comes into this issue as it relates to how many resources there are. Unless you consider money to be something that comes out the ground or grows on trees or something, rather than something abstract. They may have more money, but if there's less material in circulation said money, presumably, isn't going to do as much in real terms.

(Edit: Oh, and I just mean that, in reality, nations like Mozambique aren't always on the bottom of the world economy as much as outside of it, you know? In the house of capitalism, the American middle class may be wiping their feet on the doormat that is the Chinese urban lower classes and calling for the Mexican maid to put on dinner, but the masses of Mozambique are shivvering outside in the kennel without making an impresion on the house. No deliberate AMW-centred choice in referencing Mozambique.)

Speaking of Mozambique, I might as well post the current state of affairs there.


Provinces of Mozambique Administered by Foreign Nations:

Niassa (Strathdonia){870,544 citizens}
Zambezia (Strathdonia & Roycelandia){3,316,703 citizens}
Tete (Strathdonia){1,319,904}

Administrative States & Respective Populations of The Commonwealth of Mozambique (The Crooked Beat):

Cabo Delgado (1,465,537 citizens)
Nampula (3,265,854 citizens)
Inhambane (1,256,139 citizens)
Gaza (1,203,294 citizens)
Maputo (933,951 citizens)
Maputo City (1,018,938 citizens)
(9,143,713 citizens total)

Mozambique Free State (RENAMO)(United Elias-backed and played):

Sofala: 1,582,260
Manica: 1,280,830
_____________
Total: 2,863,090

BG, I wasn't talking about resources, just pointing out that an economy can adapt without cheap labor.

Yeah, it can go socialist :) and concentrate on the satisfaction of need.

So.... Do I make it? Or do I not make it? It would be nice to see if I make it..... I have three yes votes, in a way, but some no's and maybe's.

I do not think that you are going to make the cut. You still have zero endorsements, because right now you still do not have an official request.

WWJD
Amen.

May I ask the permission of the respective memebers of AMW to allow me to enter this thread under the title of The Greater Prussian State of Germany. Lead by the Kaiser Maxen Von Thoedoric.
Taking up the position of Austria and Germany. It's stats go as following...
POP: 90,000,000
GDP: 2.5 Trillion Dollars
Area: 440,000 Kilometers

Some areas of interest would be the obvious idea of the annexation of the Crezch Republic dubed the Sudentland. Also the obvious anti communists approach by the recent political party.

Austria and Germany where made into one (Like annexation approved or a unioun?) to counteract the Russian threat by centralizing the goverment to make it easier to only ask one goverment to make a alliance for NATO.

The political party in power at the moment was swept into pretty much all areas of the goverment on a wave of ant-communism. The party would be the Prussian Political Party of Germany.

Other than that I will be posting a conference held in Munich pretty soon to ask the world powers to let Germany annex Sudentland.

Reasons of annexation would be the tangiable fact that the high percent of it's residents are pretty much Austrian-Hungrary and German people ript away from their homeland by the trying not to be good allies in WWI.

OOC: Also just for the you, I have already asked to join AMW so please read all posts before you reply.

[QUOTE=
WWJD
[/QUOTE]
Say yes

Say yes


That kind of garbage is not going to be helpful to your cause.
WWJD
Amen.

Spyr's approval notes (some of which may be irrelevant)

Tord/Argentyna: Approval. As might be expected, given Tord's RP background. I'm sure you'll have fun now that you can shoot Strainists on sight instead of thanking them for food donations and literacy.

Lavrageria: Approval. No idea where Yugoslavia will end up adding athiest nmads to the mix, between a pile of angry European monarchs, but it will be interesting to watch.

Bedou: Approval. Here, at least in the short-term, I think the Saharawi and their republic ought to remain on their existing RP course, given that they've been played as true-to-life as was manageable and are involved in current North African tensions. However, those tensions make the idea of the nomadic peoples across Arabia and North Africa (including those tribes of saharawi who remain nomadic and had no ties to the Polisario Front) even more of an important aspect to add into AMW.

Kordo: Approval. Your sample RP and concepts leave nothing that would keep you out of AMW. I will, however, say that the 'big 4' circling around central america (USQ, UE, NA, and the Roiks) ought to have final say as to the extent of Mexican territory.

Moorington: No Approval. This is the hard part... I'm going to say what I think a lot of other members have wanted to, but been too polite to shout out loud. I do not want you to be part of AMW as Germany.

I could go on for a bit about how its a logical and reasonable thing to deny you entry, but I'll be honest instead. I'm an elitist prick. Really.

Your roleplay reminds me of AMW's China, Xiaguo. Now, one might wonder, if Xiaguo has set a precedent, how can I want to deny entry to similar RPers? Thats the elitist prick thing again. I like Xiaguo. I think he has some excellent RP ideas at heart. But I also think it was a mistake to let him play China in AMW. When I read his posts, suspension of disbelief goes right out the window. Thigs are happening instantly, reality often gets forgotten, and occasionally it gets hard to make sense of why things are happening the way that they are. And, I feel that your sample posts suffer from the same problems.

Now, as I said, I like Xiaguo. I'd even approve him to get into AMW if we did it all over again. After all, everyone can improve over time. But I would not approve him for China. Because China is big. Its influential. It can project its power into most events around the globe. And, under Xiaguo, I feel it detracts from the quality of many stories it gets involved in. Germany has the same potential for global presence, and in my opinion it would be an error for AMW to allow you to take responsibility for it.

I'm not saying your RP has no merit, that it couldn't improve over time to fit the specific environmental circumstances of AMW. What I am saying is that Germany is to large and too potent to risk in the hope that things will work out. If you really want to experience roleplay in the environment that is AMW, I'd suggest starting small. Be a Denmark, a Norway, a Costa Rica... experience the intricacies of this boundaried world, shift your style until it becomes a better fit here, and then see how things stand.

But, bear in mind, this is just my opinion, not of AMW in general. And, I AM an elitist prick.

Well, the prodigal player has returned...yet again.

I note that Kashu has disappeared in my absence due to its caretaker failing to do his job...I presume this effectively cancels my somewhat sporadic AMW membership, but I thought I'd check on the offchance I might still be welcome (in some form).

Thanks

O&I/Kashu

Hmmm...Well, NOT being an elitist prick (Not that I think you are one, Spyr ;), I guess I sympathize a bit more with Moorington than most. It's just that...well, if you look at my early posts on this forum, they weren't...good. To say the least. My position was in fact quite tenous until I came out with that gigantic Putinian action epic to put my foot in the door. In fact, to be honest, if I saw an RPer with my quality from that time applying for Russia...Well, I'd have been far less forgiving than you were! But I agree with Spyr...Moorington, you seem to have a specific interest in Prussian style culture and governance. How about we have you try a a province of Germany? It's not an uncommon event for us to divvy up nations in AMW, so this might be a good way to let him get his feet wet.

And as for O&I/Kashu...Go right ahead!

I completely agree with Spyr. ...........

Wait, did I just type that?

It is not as though I would have Moorington not have any part in the AMW, it is only that GErmany and Austria combined is far, far too infuencial and powerful.
AC, I also see your point, but even though you claim to have less quality than you have now, that is only natural as your honed your craft. And your first RPs were not bad, far from it, you have consistantly been the creative driving force behind all measure of storylines AMW over. And one more thing, it was always very easy to see intelligence, maturity and potential in your posts, I don't see that from Moorington. You were also very open to correction if things got out of hand, and since AMW is self-policed, that is very helpful.
Moorington would be a very good player, building his repoitare, if he was willing to take a less influential nation. Perhaps he should think about Poland, or even Austria? A Prussian style monarchy surviving all of these years in to resurge in Austria would make for an interesting RP. That is what I did when I made my bid, I wanted to be Tsar of Russia, but modified my bid to be a Tsar in exile of Ukraine, who knew that I would eventually get my original wish? It can happen, but it should happen during play, when he deserves it.


I agree with Spyr on every piont, even adding my vote to allow all the new members that he suggested we take. I do think, however, that the bid for Mexico must be ratifies by Hudecia, Roycleandia and Quinntonia, as they have been able to maintain a balance in that region for years.

Tsar Wingert the Great

Thanks AC...as you can see, Kashu is back, which is one thing at least.

At risk of annoying people yet again with my vicissitudes, now that I'm back I'm seriously considering downsizing. The whole point of me taking Bihar was to try to minimalise problems for everyone else if I went inactive for a few months (which indeed happened), but I can't help thinking that my activity levels to date merit less. In addition, sooner or later someone is going to come along who is both keen and able to RP the whole of northern India, and I owe it to AMW not to get in the way of that.

So, right now I'm thinking small (I reckon it might suit my perfectionist nature better than a nation of 84 million anyway...); obviously I want to remain in India, but unlike before, when I rushed into a number of bad decisions (Japan, Assam etc) I'm going to try and avoid doing the same this time.

This probably sounds rather bizarre, but does LRR own the union territory of Dadra and Nagar Haveli (I remember reading somewhere that Goa was still separate)? I can't remember hearing about D&NH though, but given it's size it could quite easily have slipped between cracks...

Welcome back, Kashu.

Goa has been made a Roycelandian protectorate (unfortunately!)

However, in a similar position is Pondicherry (well, that section, anyway)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/ind-map-3.jpg
I forget how up to date is my map, but bleh, here it is. I have no idea whether Hindustan incorporated D&NH, though.

Thanks BG...it certainly helps to see an updated map of the place! I reckon thinking about things that DN&H is probably part of Hindusatn, or at least a virtual protectorate of it if not, so it's probably best to abandon that idea.

There is one other alternative to Bihar which I contemplated whilst first making my claim- the Barak Valley region of south Assam (it's the bit that sticks out to the south of the state). This area, which consists of the districts of Cachar, Karimganj and Hailakandi is distinct from the rest of Assam in that most people there are Bengalis speaking the Sylheti dialect (or language depending on your view), as opposed to Assamese speaking that language. Hence IRL there is somethging of a distinct regional identity there. According to the Indian district websites, the combined stats for these three districts are as follows:

Area: 6,921 square km
Population: 2,993,095 (2001 census)

I have indicated the area in purple on a map I found of Assam so anyone interested can see what I'm talking about:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/antoku/Kashu/assam.gif

I reckon I could live with that; ironically, I very nearly restricted my claim to this in the first place, before I foolishly decided to listen to the voice which said I might as well stick with the whole of the North east (actually, thinking about it, the heartlands of Kashu were originally based in this region in my old RP)...

Anyway, would anyone here object to this?

I woudl liek to be any of the following Nations:

Israel
South Africa
Egypt

I woudl liek to be any of the following Nations:

Israel
South Africa
Egypt

I have some advice: learn how to read and write English, read the whole of the first post, consider it carefully and only then make a post here. Otherwise, vacate this thread and kindly do not return. Thank you for your co-operation.

Thanks BG...it certainly helps to see an updated map of the place! I reckon thinking about things that DN&H is probably part of Hindusatn, or at least a virtual protectorate of it if not, so it's probably best to abandon that idea.

There is one other alternative to Bihar which I contemplated whilst first making my claim- the Barak Valley region of south Assam (it's the bit that sticks out to the south of the state). This area, which consists of the districts of Cachar, Karimganj and Hailakandi is distinct from the rest of Assam in that most people there are Bengalis speaking the Sylheti dialect (or language depending on your view), as opposed to Assamese speaking that language. Hence IRL there is somethging of a distinct regional identity there. According to the Indian district websites, the combined stats for these three districts are as follows:

Area: 6,921 square km
Population: 2,993,095 (2001 census)

I have indicated the area in purple on a map I found of Assam so anyone interested can see what I'm talking about:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/antoku/Kashu/assam.gif

I reckon I could live with that; ironically, I very nearly restricted my claim to this in the first place, before I foolishly decided to listen to the voice which said I might as well stick with the whole of the North east (actually, thinking about it, the heartlands of Kashu were originally based in this region in my old RP)...

Anyway, would anyone here object to this?

No objections from me Kashu. Its very good to see you back. To be completely honest, I hadn't heard of your first place. Could you give me a geographic reference? If it was near Goa it would actually stand a chance of not being dominated/outright invaded by Hindustan because of Roycelandian influence, although from 1947-1982 relations between Mumbai and Port Royal were likely quite sour.

So I wouldn't put it completely out of the question, but I fully sympathise with your uneasiness about your past nations. I've experienced quite a bit of it myself, and nowadays wish I just took Goa and stopped there. :)

As for Moorington, well, perhaps if he's started out on a piece of territory with less potential to really skew AMW's current climate he might develop into a more competent RPer. I for one think that we should make it more clear that AMW isn't necessarily about being a power, and that there are many smaller nations which might be limitlessly more interesting than the superpowers (not to offend anybody, mind). What I mean to say is that we should probably place more emphasis on a certain degree of humility and less on national perfection in the RP sense. That's what I've been trying to do with Hindustan lately.

I have some advice: learn how to read and write English, read the whole of the first post, consider it carefully and only then make a post here. Otherwise, vacate this thread and kindly do not return. Thank you for your co-operation.
Thank you my English is fine, just my typing sucks.
What I meant was that I would like my nation to be located in any of the areas specified in my list. Yes I do realize that I won't actually be Israel or Egypt or South Africa merely my nation will be located in their place. And no I will not read all 70 pages of this thread, if any of these places have already been chosen whoever is in charge of the list can POLITELY inform me that the positions have already been taken.

I appreciate your support LRR...I have found that it often takes me quite a while (and several false starts) to find a comfortable niche, so it's always reassuring to hear that I'm not alone in this ;)

To be completely honest, I hadn't heard of your first place. Could you give me a geographic reference?

Sure! To be honest, Dadra and Nagar Haveli is so small (only 450 or so square km) that I can't blame you for being a bit unclear about the place. If I can quickly borrow BG's recent map- just inland from Daman on the border between Maharastra and Gujarat is a small black spot...I reckon that is actually D&NH (it's in roughly the right place). Like Daman and Diu, it used to be a Portuguese colony. Anyway, looking at it now, it is probably too small to be really worthwhile even if it isn't part of Hindustan; my interest earlier was only due to a brief idea I had about building a sort of Indian Monaco.

I reckon the Barak valley idea is much more coherent as I am already famaliar with the place (and the surrounding areas) and reckon that it isn't too far fetched to have a small but economically successful nation in that location (Which of course makes me ask why, given my preference for small, neat, economically developed nations, did I ever go for Bihar, AKA one of the least developed and most overpopulated Indian states, with almost no natural resources to speak of...someone didn't score very well on his homework). There might be no easy access to the sea, but the neighbouring states (which if they are anything like themselves IRL are almost certainly independent and probably at each other's throats) will be virtually dependent on trade through the Barak valley as their only realistic outlet to the world, which in turn will make Kashu something of a regional economic hub. And there happens to be oil in Cachar- as well as in the better-known fields of upper Assam- which isn't a bad thing to have, economy-wise!

No, the Barak Valley/Southern Assam region is the way to go for me, so I'd like to formally change my claim to that if I may.

I don't have many references on my at this moment, but I am sure my Master of Puppets RP as being the most resent is a fair idea of my character aspect of RPing. I haven't done many wars on-site in at least half a year, so please excuse that.

Would you all mind if I laid down my flag in Brazil? (Possibly also Peru). I'll go ahead and say I suck at overall ground technology and tatics, but throw me 8 B-17s up against 34 Eurofighters and I am sure I could come out on top.

Eh, I don't mean to be relatively biased here, but you could role play as a more right wing regime in Portugal, put in place by the Catalan dynasty in Spain. As a NationStates [in general] aquintance of mine that would really work out.

Regardless of what you choose, I think at this time you're going to need to be a more third rate country - or at least, your economy is going to have to be severely moderated, as that's why Moorington has been turned down about five times.

Well, I guess I should ask, what kind of Brazil do you plan to play? Right wing, left wing, moderate center. What's the history of Brazil so far? Etc.

Thank you my English is fine, just my typing sucks.
What I meant was that I would like my nation to be located in any of the areas specified in my list. Yes I do realize that I won't actually be Israel or Egypt or South Africa merely my nation will be located in their place. And no I will not read all 70 pages of this thread, if any of these places have already been chosen whoever is in charge of the list can POLITELY inform me that the positions have already been taken.

Unitec Elias did not ask you to read all 70 pages merely the first post of thread (although the entire first page is generally helpful).

The thing is if you are not prepared to sort through this thread then you are going to have problems sorting through the overall theme and history of this group.

As to your options, if you had read the first page then you would know that Egypt is part of United Elias, Isreal is not mentioned but it is generally assumed as an ogoing NPC nation (In AMW Isreal is in in a much elss powerful postion what with many of its neighbours being part of United Elias). South Africa is free and is perhaps the missing major link in the whole Sub Saharan Africa (SSA) theatre. To take on SA there are a number of issues to cover with an Africa that is somewhat different to the real world but if you are willing to delve into the SSA stuff on these forums and produce a veiw as to how you would like to take things then you would be welcome.

Well, I guess I should ask, what kind of Brazil do you plan to play? Right wing, left wing, moderate center. What's the history of Brazil so far? Etc.

Well, Brazil would have a simular path of history as it has had until the early '50's (or '40's, can't remember exactly) when its military-controled government gave its power over to free elections.

It will still be controlled by the military, by Antonio Marique, who will be attempting to make the people love him by litterally doing everything they want (he'll be, as Americans would say, Tony Blaire to George Bush).

A lot of internal work, lining up for a good ol' government change (not to democracy) that I am sure many could guess from world events in Venezuela today.

I will be using Brazil's current population, economy, military, everything. Only problem is I will be very liberal, but slightly moderate.

Truitt: Well for the moment you have my provisional backing. Of course i would think that the opinion of those closer to the area might have more to say.


Just oen question: Would your Brazil still be such a open arms exporter? i only ask as Strathdonia is a very large user of brazillian equipment (pretty much all of Avibras's groud equipment catalogue parituclarly the various version fo teh ASTROS MLRS. The EE-9 and EE-11 vehciles are also used).

It will not be chaotically sending its arms everywhere, but maybe agreements can be made. Any past dealings of attaining Brazillian goods as NPC I guess could slide, unless there is some rule against it (regaurdless, this new leader will be trying to change from what he has done in the past so...it could be anything he is trying to change)

I play in South American AMW, and I give you my conditional sponsorship - if you should go completely wacko for us for some reason, you can no longer play in the AMW; but I'm sure you know this. If you get another sponsor, welcome aboard!

I'll also add my conditional approval to Truitt to play as Brazil, again provided he doesn't do anything crazy.

And Strath, if the Brazilians cut off your arms supplies, your friends in Roycelandia are more than happy to sell you stuff... it's not all SMLEs and Spitfires, you know... ;-)

I'm fine with the claim on Mexico as well, provided it's understood that Mexico isn't likely to be a major power... perhaps a sort of Central American Switzerland type place is in order?

Great, this will be a great time for me to get back into good ol' RPing.

I'll go ahead and start up my first thread now, anyone mind for a South American summit?

Well, if you don't mind a load of radical anarchists in attendance, then that would indeed sound very cool!

I think I would be all for the Mexican bid, with the ammendum that he maintain play as an economy/military that reflects real life.

WWJD
Amen.

Truitt has my approval. Its nice to see such a large and influential South American nation finally have representation.

Shameless advert for the International Competition Committee and its World Games (AMW's Olympics, sort-of)

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/9853/icclogo5tw.gif

With the number of planned events now expanded substantially, it'd be nice to see more participating nations, old and new.

[IC jolt thread here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440116), OOC invision planning thread here (http://s9.invisionfree.com/NS_Modern_World/index.php?showtopic=131).

Sorry about being away so long and I totally understand why you wouldn't want someone to be Germany and that you guys have a great thing going so I am just going to say nothing mean or better just keep having this thing going! So kudos and if you guys ever decide germany is looking vacant for too long just TG :rolleyes:

Moorington, we're offering you Austria or a German province as a testing ground.

Okay, that is cool too, forgot to turn off he instant e-mail notification and voila I check it out and I get a country! (Not Germany) Well I'll just pick Austria since it always seemed to be at the losing end of wars (I.E E20s).
Basics:


So to start it off......
News Reporter:
See election (on the bottom of page.)

Vienna, Austria:
Wild fanfare in the streets gave way to some burning of houses and businesses which were held by primarily Socialist parties.....

Military Base, Austria:
The new waves of money from the government was a cause of joy for all of the base and the latest schedule was filled top to bottom with all kinds of live fire drills made all of the troops happy. The tank battalion was at the moment getting their tanks out of storage and revving up their engines. One was found to have a gummed up motor so the mechanics were not completely happy.

Border Crezch-Austria:
A series of excersises involving border infiltration was a quietly not acknowledged when Crezch protests came in.


Elections (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9728346#post9728346)...Austrian Homepage (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9728386#post9728386)....

Since I believe you're in (Unless Estenlands changed his mind about letting you have Austria) you can start a thread. We don't RP in here.

Just remember to put <AMW> in the title.

I for one think that we should make it more clear that AMW isn't necessarily about being a power, and that there are many smaller nations which might be limitlessly more interesting than the superpowers (not to offend anybody, mind). What I mean to say is that we should probably place more emphasis on a certain degree of humility and less on national perfection in the RP sense. That's what I've been trying to do with Hindustan lately.

Sure tell the people at E20 that, snce Denmark (my country) has been invaded so I am pretty much giving up on that no matter how interesting, Alternate History Thread.

Since I know some of you don't visit the AMW forum frequently, I thought I'd better post this here as well since the outcome will affect the next stage of the RP I'm working on...

I'm looking to create a new neighbour for Kashu, so that Sitala Devi can at last 'meet her match' (enter an even madder little despot...). I don't know what policy on this sort of thing is, but since I have voluntarily restricted myself to a small area, would the rest of you mind if I appropriated a little more territory for this new place?

The area I'm interested in is the Sylhet District of Bangladesh (it's the bit that sticks out in the north-east towards Kashu and Assam). I haven't found reliable details yet, but I think the area is just over eleven thousand square km with a population of under seven million, so hopefully not much. I can't recall Bangladesh being occupied (it was offered to em at one point) so I presume the area is roughly free, even if there are historical concerns I need to respect.

I would really appreciate some sort of official authorisation on this so that i can get things going...if you need any more info, I can supply it on request (trying not to spoil any suprises I have in store).

Thanks

[QUOTE=Armandian Cheese]Since I believe you're in (Unless Estenlands changed his mind about letting you have Austria) you can start a thread. We don't RP in here.QUOTE]

Yeah but it was a a way to show waht the individual threads were without reading them. Like an index...

Here is my first move, (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=448443)

Okay, I've started to type-up the start of a new thread with which to replace this one. Hopefully one that we shall keep highly active and relatively clear.

Ideally a second active and willing player will help to keep-up with recruitment, trials, departures and so on, to make sure that my post doesn't get horribly out of date.

I think maybe we can use this thread for a while to discuss what we want out of the new one?

Well, for one thing, a thread that is largely free of discussions that pertain to other threads. To take an example, the friendly banter about who supports what terrorists and who wants to invade what while someone else isn't looking - it's fun as hell, but we could do it elsewhere, and it really fills up the thread with OFF TOPIC material. Of course, this also means that there will be no IC roleplaying in the thread either.

Also, we should stick to the model we have, with people presenting claims and a draft of their government and history, and we give it a review and approve/reject it as appropriate.

On the subject of off topic, I still think everyone who is ACTIVE in AMW should join the Invisionfree forum. A great deal of AMW debate(relevant to all nations) goes on there, and it is also a good place for OOC off-topic shooting the breeze about whatever, keeping threads like this free of anything but purposeful post.

Now, Dra-pol, I remember you saying you didn't want to "bother" with joining the forum, but it is really a good idea.

/Tias (African Commonwealth / Neo-Anarchos )

I like dra-pool's idea if anyone cares.... probably not...

I'm happy with it, I would have closed this thread long ago if I could have. BTW, Dra-pol, they are right, you shoudl jion the invisions forum, it really does effect ecerything that is done in AMW.
WWJD
Amen.

I good starting post for it would be all of the nation's names and their respective news bulletins. The main thread would be for the big stuff like links too war threads and history threads about each respective country would be located in their threads.

Anybody else have any other ideas? I am pretty much cannibalizing off of the E20 version, of course each player is going have too provide their own.

tag

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=451505

Japanese elections, with a poll which may decide the final result!

Can I be Switzerland? Switzerland for the most part has been a neutral nation and can I win the latest elections? The capitalistic, dead center party, called the Mysic Party.

Sure I see no reason not to. I think we need more people inside Europe.

Can I be Switzerland? Switzerland for the most part has been a neutral nation and can I win the latest elections? The capitalistic, dead center party, called the Mysic Party.
1. We need RP samples, population levels, and a description of your nation.
2. You need to be approved by two veteran members.

I believe that some of AMW missed this thread the first time:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=451743

So, did the new thread appear?

((Neo-Anarchos))

I don't believe so.

HERE WE GO (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=455144)

I propose that we continue to make use of this old thread for a short while, to argue about what goes in the new one, so we don't mess it up right away :)

Great! I like it makes all ofthose "unsung" rules sung! With that I can get know were all of the nations reside since I am still very much hoping I don't post something somewhere even though somthing over there hapins to be in or near another's nation.

From the new thread:

I have an idea that E20 used. It was for each goverment to have a "news stand" topic in which you conducted your diplomacy and more local issues. You could get to all of them from the main post, were all of the nations and who controled them were liste, by a means of a hyperlink. Sound good? Also we should put a list of people who have applied to join, meaning Abream (I guess) and Pennterra.
|
|
If the above is bad please send hate mail/telegrams.

I quite like this idea. Say, for example, the Japanese government was implementing some new economic policy, that sort of thing wouldn't warrant its own thread but would still be something that I'd want everyone else to see. Having a news thread gives everyone to post tidbits that give a bit more character to their nation without having to make a new thread for every little thing.

I know we have something very similar on the Invision forums, but having them on the NS forums would be more convenient for newer members to find. It would also make it easier for those interested in joining to see what the established nations are already up to.

Yeah. That seems to make sense, really. If the nation names in the sign-up thread link to them, yeah, sounds okay to me. Super.

Can I still join? I would like to be Uzbekistan since my nation is also a corrupt dictatorship that represses its citizens.

Uzbekistan:
pop. 26,851,195
Central Asia: mostly flat to rolling desert with dunes, next to mountainous Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, etc. Next to shrinking Aral sea, totally landlocked

Sure as long as Tsar Wingert for some reason doesn't have it.

I wish to roleplay as Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, as one country. I plan to run it a Benign, Centrist dictatorship, whose main goal is the modernisation of the nation.

Population (according to factbook) for the two countries combined is 12,309,786.

Here is a sample of my roleplaying - I am Greater Egypt:

http://s12.invisionfree.com/Global_A...p?showtopic=48

Sure, mostly from the fact for new members and you actually had a forum your little thing got so advanced.

Hmm... Might as well try signing up here.

Nation: Pennterra (the Five Lands)

Geographic regions: The core five lands are Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Baltica (Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia); Greenland and Iceland are also controlled as territories. If Baltica is occupied, we'll skip it and designate Iceland as the fifth land.

Population: 30,603,704 (41,823,451 with Baltica) (Population increase of 10 million due to historic immigration)

Government: Left-leaning capitalist democratic republic

History: Centuries ago, the kingdom of Denmark owned vast stretches of the Northern lands. In our history, this kingdom fractured; Sweden owned Norway for a time, and the Russians conquered Finland and the Baltic States from the Swedes. Even Iceland eventually became independent. However, in this world, this union didn't shatter; instead, it withstood the trial of nationalism by casting aside its monarchs and forming a federal republic recognizing five primary states within its union.

This region has many mineral resources and a very tough population capable of withstanding the harsh Scandinavian winter. Pennterra has also developed severals strains of cold-resistant crops, granting it a flourishing agricultural economy. Finally, the mountainous regions have been adapted for industry. This rich land leaned toward socialist policies due to the influx of free thinkers, attracted by Pennterra's wealth and diversity. This has made Pennterra popular to migrants, especially refugees from the creation of the theocracy of the USQ. Some of the USQ immigrants were capitalists, and they have been campaigning to capitalize Pennterra's society slightly; this has created a conflict between economic concerns and social concerns.

I don't have many examples of RPing; however, I assure you that I won't do anything stupid. Feel free to kick me out if I do.

I think you'll end up in AMW if you stick around, Pennterra, though Baltica will unfortunately probably not be possible, but you'll have to excuse us for a short while because I'm presently trying to work-up the official rosta in the new thread, and it's all a bit confused! Hang in there, and continue doing your thang in the rest of NS, we've made it a year and we'll certainly get back to you [cheesy music pipes in]

I think you'll end up in AMW if you stick around, Pennterra, though Baltica will unfortunately probably not be possible, but you'll have to excuse us for a short while because I'm presently trying to work-up the official rosta in the new thread, and it's all a bit confused! Hang in there, and continue doing your thang in the rest of NS, we've made it a year and we'll certainly get back to you [cheesy music pipes in]

Roger that, and thanks. I'll be watching. Baltica is claimed, eh? Hm... Nationalistic conflict... :D

Well, LRR recently sent me a telegram telling me about the interest in recruiting for AMW. I must say that I've always had the highest regard for the A Modern World players and have interacted with a number of them, or their puppets, in an 'alternate reality' type setting.

At any rate, I've really no idea on which thread to post and I don't want to be yelled at by Moorington, so I'm putting it here and tossing up a link on the other thread.

Moving on to more relevant information, I've always been interested in playing a 'banana republic,' which I imagine would be a quite different experience than my 'main' country. I notice that Latin America, according to LRR's list at least, seems to be pretty empty. Nicaragua would be my first choice, but I'm more than willing to be flexible. However, I imagine an early time on AMW which goes something like this:

(self-declared) Generalissimo Ricardo Alberto Díaz y Aguarte has recently risen to power in the Central American republic of Mannicagua following fair, free and honest elec.... well, a coup. A relatively bloodless coup, mind you. Aguarte, with the covert backing of with the backing of [right-leaning capitalist country], takes control of a country ruled by a socialist-leaning single party (the PMDR) in which most farm land had been confiscated and collectivized.

Immediate items on Aguarte's agenda include attracting foreign capital to Mannicagua -- a favorite item on his is exciting interest in a canal connecting Lake Nicaragua to both the Pacific and the Atlantic, a project which may cause some degree of anxiety in a certain country to the south. There are a number of internal dissidents who (very quietly) object to the program of re-capitalization and specifically the buying-up of cash-crop lands by investors from [industrialized country].

And the story continues from there.

So, what do you all think? I've role-played with a self-imposed population cap for nearly my entire tenure on NationStates, so adjusting to AMW constraints shouldn't be a big problem. At any rate, I've got to run for now, but I hope to be a part of your wonderful project.

~Ian

Huzzah! I mean... yes, splendid, the new generation AMW needs players like Mr.Ian, says I.

I may only have four hours sleep with me so far this week, but I think it's safe to assume that you/he (depending on who's reading) will be accepted whenever we break out of this limbo.

No doubt the dastardly Roiks will be mixed up in any such coup.

I've seen your RPing and I'll give you a stamp of approval. Perhaps we could...agree on a few things?

Must be Liu!

Careful, you two -- my head's already far too large for my hats =P. Seriously, though, thank you for your kind words and I only hope I can live up to your expectations.

Something which I forgot to mention previously: is there any objection to my playing a nation as somewhat of a farce? I don't mean off-the-wall zaniness, of course, just a few twinks to keep the story a bit humorous. One of the reasons that I'm a bit tired with Iansisle right now is that everything is so gosh-darned serious. Mannicagua (or another name, depending on its location) would still have to deal with all the serious issues affecting modern Central American countries -- right wing versus left wing extremism, the drug trade, foreign debt versus social or development programs, foreign ownership of capital, political instability, etc. -- but would deal with such in a somewhat light-hearted way. I'm willing to compromise on this, too, if gravity is a necessary quality.

EDIT: I should also mention that I have not studied Spanish since High School. I remember a few essential phrases (such as "Donde esta el baño?" and "Ricardo Montalban es MUY macho!") but nothing extensive. Y'all will have to forgive me any linguistic faux pas I might make should I be chosen for a central american slot. =)

Careful, you two -- my head's already far too large for my hats =P. Seriously, though, thank you for your kind words and I only hope I can live up to your expectations.

Something which I forgot to mention previously: is there any objection to my playing a nation as somewhat of a farce? I don't mean off-the-wall zaniness, of course, just a few twinks to keep the story a bit humorous. One of the reasons that I'm a bit tired with Iansisle right now is that everything is so gosh-darned serious. Mannicagua (or another name, depending on its location) would still have to deal with all the serious issues affecting modern Central American countries -- right wing versus left wing extremism, the drug trade, foreign debt versus social or development programs, foreign ownership of capital, political instability, etc. -- but would deal with such in a somewhat light-hearted way. I'm willing to compromise on this, too, if gravity is a necessary quality.

EDIT: I should also mention that I have not studied Spanish since High School. I remember a few essential phrases (such as "Donde esta el baño?" and "Ricardo Montalban es MUY macho!") but nothing extensive. Y'all will have to forgive me any linguistic faux pas I might make should I be chosen for a central american slot. =)

Well, allow me to add my official Big Rubber Stamp Of Approval for Iansisle.

I don't think anyone's going to object to you playing a Banana Republic in an off-beat manner... I've been playing Roycelandia with a very light side to it since early in the proceedings. And if there's a Revolution, you can bet Roycelandia will be involved.

A Revolution? To the EmperorMobile!

*Insert Batman Theme Music here, along with comic-book like exclamations of "POW!" "BIFF!" "WHACK!" "IMPERIALISM!" etc :-P*

Oh, and whilst we're on the topic of dodgy 3rd world Latin American countries:

"My Presidente, I believe some of your people may be calling for an Election next year..."

"You are making quite a number of enemies, Senor Presidente..."

"It is good to see that you are putting something away for yourself in Switzerland, my President..." :-D

I recognize Iansisle as well, we need way more players in South Africa.

A fine choice of country, Ian. I see the Hindustani foreign service will have some...well...whatever it does...er...to do.

On the subject of Southern Africa, yeah, it would be nice to see more countries there, especially somebody in Zimbabwe, or Botswana. Not that Central America isn't just as under-represented and important, of course.

Any more word on the Americas, then?

We have more or less sorted:

*Canada
*USA
*Caribbean islands
*Belize
*Canal Zone but not the rest of Panama
*Colombia
*Ecuador
*Venezuela
*Suriname
*Guyana

We (all right, I) have outstanding questions over:

*Argentina- is Tord part of AMW, or not? He was accepted and I think that we all trust Spyr's word on him being a perfectly good role-player, but he joined at a bit of a bad time and we haven't seen much engagement from him since then.

*Peru- both Marimaia and _Taiwan (if I may refer to the players themselves by those old titles) have had hands on it, but I tentatively suppose that both are through with it? If that is correct, is it now NPC, and how much baggage is attached to the territory?

Anything else?

If not, then I see no obstacle to my inclusion of Iansisle's Mannicagua (which, for whatever reason, I keep misreading as a very bouncy Man-ic-an-ag-u-a) over Nicaragua and/or any other Central American territories he wishes to claim for it. Nicaragua alone would be assigned a population of roughly 5.5 million.

Incidentally, if anyone wishes to take issue with the provisional populations I slap on claims in the new thread, do bring it up, and just try not to panic or get mad, I've probably just made an honest mistake, or forgotten to take something into account. They're not exact down to the thousand or anything like that, of course, more a guide for the quick reference of other players.

Guys, all recruiting/etc is now handled in the new thread.

Well, not really. The new thread does say, in bold, in the first post, that there's not much point posting there just yet. And it suggests the use of this thread until that one is actually ready.

Well, if there's absolutely no objections, I must admit that I have been eying El Salvador (~6.7 million) and the Honduran departments of Choluteca (~0.31 million) and Valle (~0.12 million), for a total population of 12.63 million. (it should be noted that Choluteca and Valle comprise the Pacific coast of Honduras and provide a corridor connecting El Salvador and Nicaragua) I'm more than willing to work with just Nicaragua, should there be previous claims to either El Salvador or the entirety.

In terms of gameplay, I feel that the addition of densely populated, urban, (relatively) industrialized El Salvador to sparsely populated, rural, agrarian Nicaragua could provide some interesting situations, especially as the Nicaragua area would be the real center of power. Roleplay-wise, this could be explained as an attempt to recreate the United Provinces of Central America at some point in the past, with Mannicaguan sponsorship and Salvadorian and Honduran participation. At some point, Honduras broke away from the union but never regained its Pacific departments.

Actually, I think this could work in very well to the scenario I have created. Perhaps El Salvador, being more industrialized, could be a base of power for the PMDR, whereas Mannicagua proper would be more in favor of Generalissimo Aguarte. This could also lead into an interesting dynamic if, like the real Nicaragua, Mannicagua had a small English-speaking minority on its eastern coast -- perhaps Roycelandian in origin? -- who were also strongly in favor of Aguarte's coup.

Bah, I'm getting far ahead of myself and not nearly enough done for my paper that's due tomorrow. I'll keep reading your threads to help me think up and sketch out concepts for how to integrate Mannicagua into AMW's history without stepping on too many toes. Again, I'd like to say that the El Salvador thing is just a proposal; if y'all think it is unrealistic / unneeded or it turns out someone had prior claim to the area, I'm more than happy to keep Nicaragua "only."

And no, BG, this isn't all an elaborate scheme just to have somewhere in my country named 'Salvador' where there might be a "Battle of Salvador" at some point in the past or future. Really. <.< >.>

Hehe... we're only having a re-match if you let the Roiks (Roycelandians) arm you with the same sort of gizmos you had first time around! We've already sunk one of their dreadnoughts. 's no fun if you shoot back.

Oh...<Looks> Goddamit, sorry. Dumb mistake. Ahem.

Ian, if you're going to handle El Salvador, how would the whole Marxist liberation movement play out? An important part of Vladimir Putin's backstory was as a covert USQ operative during the rebellions, and I wrote it with Kordo, who was supposed to take over the area, in mind, initially. I think I can edit it to fit, but can I assume your government reacted similiarly to the RL one, or more humanely?

Like I said, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, past or present. Part of my story relies on there being a mildly-authoritarian leftist government in Mannicagua for the past decade or two, recently overthrown by a military coup. If your story takes place before then, perhaps El Salvador could be independent before the Mannicaguan-sponsored unification. If not, I'm more than willing to abandon the whole idea. =)

Well, how about we say that El Salvador was an independant rightist government, as in RL, but after the FMNL Revolutionaries (who were covertly supported by the Mannic-asomething-aguans) are defeated in the Putin-led final assault, the Mannic-asomething-aguan government, seeing its last chance for a leftist El Salvador slip away, attacks and annexes El Salvador, which is weakened after its protracted struggle with the rebels.

Hehe... we're only having a re-match if you let the Roiks (Roycelandians) arm you with the same sort of gizmos you had first time around! We've already sunk one of their dreadnoughts. 's no fun if you shoot back.

Don't forget, we got one of your Frigates, too... ;-)

Speaking of which, Iansisle, how would you feel about having most of the Mannicaguan armed forces (say, General Aguarte's forces) equipped and armed with Roycelandian guns and equipment? (As part of our "Meddling In The Affairs Of Other Countries" programme, you see...)

Don't forget, we got one of your Frigates, too... ;-)

Well, you're already scoring better than I did. I think I got a helicopter =D

As for arming Agarte's troops, I thought you'd never ask =P Of course, I can't guarentee that some of the said weapons will not be resold and end up as cash in el Presidente's bank account in Hindustan or something.

Well, how about we say that El Salvador was an independant rightist government, as in RL, but after the FMNL Revolutionaries (who were covertly supported by the Mannic-asomething-aguans) are defeated in the Putin-led final assault, the Mannic-asomething-aguan government, seeing its last chance for a leftist El Salvador slip away, attacks and annexes El Salvador, which is weakened after its protracted struggle with the rebels.

Mannicagua ;-) The name comes from the fact that Niceragua is named after Lake Nicaragua and the capital from Lake Managua. Basically, I just took the 'Man' from Managua and the 'Nic' from Nicaragua, slammed them together and added an 'agua' at the end.

Regarding the El Salvador scenario, I do not want Mannicagua to become an imperialist country. I've been down that road too many times with Iansisle. A little loony and right-wing, maybe, but if anything anti-imperialist by national character.

Therefore, I offer a counterpoint scenario: El Salvador is slowly being torn apart by the war between an oppressive government and left-wing rebels. Mannicagua, meanwhile, has recently emerged from a long military dictatorship with its first free elections since the thirties. The PDRM dominated the elections and multi-party politics are starting to fade.

The government, being essentially revolutionary and anti-capitalist, begins to identify more with FMNL and starts covertly running guns to the rebels, who eventually prevail and set up their own provisional government. During the constitutional convention, Mannicaguan representitives propose a new Central American Union (which is fairly plausable -- after the collapse of the UPCA, there have been at least five attempts to reunify the former provinces). El Salvador and Mannicagua are the most gung-ho of those who join, whereas Honduras joins with reservations and Costa Rica / Guatemala abstain completely.

After only a few years, Honduras -- which feels neglected due to the numerical superiority of the more liberal Mannicaguans and Salvadorians -- breaks away from the union. However, the departments of Choluteca and Valle remain occupied by the union (which is increasingly being called simply 'Mannicagua' for simplicity). Although Honduras stresses its rights to those areas, polls performed by the Mannicaguan government indicate a desire to stay within the union.

However, the PDRM / FMNL government is becoming increasingly unstable. Social programs without a sufficiently developed industrial base (especially in Mannicagua proper) combine with a hurricane on Mannicagua's Mosquito Coast and a series of devastating earthquakes in El Salvador to leave the union in heavy debt. Investors -- and consequently their governments -- are incensed when Mannicagua is forced to default on its loans. Some countries look to more extreme measures to stabalize the unlucky and commercially unfriendly Mannicaguan government.

Enter General Aguarte with the covert aid of Roycelandia and the support of the Mannicaguan countryside. Exeunt the PDRM / FMNL.

What do you think?

EDIT: by the way, I think that my party name is inaccurate. It should be "PDRM" and stand for 'Partido Demicrático y Revolucionario de Mannicagua' (I had my Spanish word order mixed up. Expect a lot of this =P) I've fixed it within this post.

RE-EDIT: or what if it was just PDR? drop the 'de Mannicagua'? does that sound better? *conflicted*

Well, I like it.






What? AMW can have short posts! In fact, there have been many examples of such! To illustrate this point, I'd like to reference one of the first, which appeared last Smarch, when...

Yeah, it looks trez cool. That being said, Neo-Anarchos has a jillion Roycelandian armaments we'd also like to load off on you once we upgrade our small arms! Probably some APCs too, those don't work too well in our jungles.

Other than limited trade, expect plenty of anarchist subversion from your south ;) That's it, I guess. Again, it looks really good; we look forward to having you in AMW.

*Peru- both Marimaia and _Taiwan (if I may refer to the players themselves by those old titles) have had hands on it, but I tentatively suppose that both are through with it? If that is correct, is it now NPC, and how much baggage is attached to the territory?

Not much baggage left from my tenure there, as _Taiwan undid the governmental stuff while he was Ghosts of the Incans; the Pacific Lotus fled to Japan just before his takeover too, so I have no influence there at all.

*Ah, meant to post that as DNK, but I don't think it really matters.

I'm quite unsure of whether to continue with Incas. The more I read it the more unrealistic and godmoddish it sounds.

Well, maybe you should be Mongolia,Nepal, or even China?

Hmmm...Sounds good, except I'd add two more suggestions.

1. Can the Mannicaguans run men as well as arms into El Salvador? The way I set the story up, the FMNL will be severely lacking in the manpower department after Putin's through.

2. What time did Auguarto take power? If it's anytime before 1995, can I have a mention of a top secret USQ operative, Vladimir Putin, being involved in his rise to power? Part of Putin's background has always been his heavy involvement in halting South American Marxist movements...

Hello, I Abream have expressed interest in Switzerland and wish to take Liechtenstein and Switzerland itself under just Switzerland. Since as some of you may or may not know Switzerland and Liechtenstein have become more and more inter-bound after the fall of Lichienstein's first "partner" Austria after WWII. In this fictional setting Liechtenstein and Switzerland's Royal Family become in laws and make a union. Their party, The Dual Economic Freedom Party, is firmly entrenched and has a majority in their basic republic country.

Well, maybe you should be Mongolia,Nepal, or even China?
He is China---He used to be _Taiwan, but Sino and Xiaguo bailed out, leaving him as the sole proprietor of China. He tried a stint as the Incans, but it didn't really work out. (And wasn't even noticed by me because he has an annoying tendency of using the Nationstates forums! Come on man, post it in I.I.!)

Hello, I Abream have expressed interest in Switzerland and wish to take Liechtenstein and Switzerland itself under just Switzerland. Since as some of you may or may not know Switzerland and Liechtenstein have become more and more inter-bound after the fall of Lichienstein's first "partner" Austria after WWII. In this fictional setting Liechtenstein and Switzerland's Royal Family become in laws and make a union. Their party, The Dual Economic Freedom Party, is firmly entrenched and has a majority in their basic republic country.
We need population, full nation name, the description you listed, and RP samples. (or writing samples if RPs aren't available) You'll need the approval of two vets after that.

Hmmm...Sounds good, except I'd add two more suggestions.

1. Can the Mannicaguans run men as well as arms into El Salvador? The way I set the story up, the FMNL will be severely lacking in the manpower department after Putin's through.

That's reasonable enough. =)

2. What time did Auguarto take power? If it's anytime before 1995, can I have a mention of a top secret USQ operative, Vladimir Putin, being involved in his rise to power? Part of Putin's background has always been his heavy involvement in halting South American Marxist movements...

Well, I had invisioned Aguarte's rise to power as a more recent thing (ie, maybe two months past?). You're always welcome to provide covert national funding, though.

I'm typing out a national factbook now. The history section is going to be left a little blurry, to be filled in later; I don't want to step on anyone's toes. Other than the <AMW> tag in the subject line, is there anything else of which I should be aware? Also, may I post under this nation name, or would you prefer me to use Mannicagua? I only ask because it's a pain switching between two names and I intend to keep Iansisle =).

Speaking of factbook the Austrian Factbook (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9728386#post9728386) is ready, in it is the elections, a more brief history on the top of the page and a summary.

Excuse me, I am sorry, this then goes in conjuction with my previous post.

Lichtienstien POP-33,717
Switzerland POP-7,489,370

New Switzerland- 7523087

Ah, but any good opposition movement takes years to build up. Coups don't happen overnight; it takes years of influence building. I'm sure I can work in some way for Putin to have been involved in the early stages.

By the way, to clarify: I am no longer actually a nation. Due to school, I've been forced to cut my involvement with AMW to a minimum, so I gave up Russia to the Estenlands, and am slowly building the backstory of a character who was a major player in AMW.

EDIT: Abream, we need RP samples. You seem alright, but we have to see how well you write.

Iansisle, you should know that the hallmark of any self-respecting Guerilla movement are initials that don't match up with the name!

For example, the group "SRDAC" could stand for "Society Revolucion Del America Centrale", but it's more likely to mean "National People's Liberation Front And Organisation For The Furtherment Of The Worker's Stuggle".

Will the Manicaguan El Presidente have a silly hat?

Roycelandia is always delighted to support Revolutions, especially in Latin American countries. Now, what sort of Equipment would El Presidente like? :-P

As for El Presidente's bank account in Hindustan, well, Parliament would probably allow him to set one up, and then they would seize it when he put a suitable amount of money in it. That is Hindustan's way. ;)

But anyway, looks quite fine. As for Putin, well, I don't think we should put the background story of one character ahead of the development of a nation, and a thoroughly humble one at that, but its up to Iansisle what he wants to do.

Personally I think the history of Mannicagua (is it spelled right?) is also excellent. Its nice to see the obscure places of the world being given a bigger representation in our roleplaying community.

Another thing; Hindustani arms dealers will no doubt be more than happy to supply anyone and everyone with everything from ex-Soviet Ak-47s to Fouga Magisters and MiG-21s, so if Aguarte finds himself lacking in the air force department he only has to call on Mumbai's sleezier districts.

If you can extract anything mildly useful out of that mess, a great job sticker for you!

Don't forget the Bazaars of Goa... absolutely anything can be obtained there, for the right price. ;-)

(And if you want to buy anything that isn't designed to kill people... oh, no, sorry, we've nothing else going spare, never mind :) )

Ah, but any good opposition movement takes years to build up. Coups don't happen overnight; it takes years of influence building. I'm sure I can work in some way for Putin to have been involved in the early stages.

By the way, to clarify: I am no longer actually a nation. Due to school, I've been forced to cut my involvement with AMW to a minimum, so I gave up Russia to the Estenlands, and am slowly building the backstory of a character who was a major player in AMW.

I'm amenable to that if you are. I don't want to interfere with any pre-Mannicagua history in AMW if I absolutely can avoid it =).

LRR, I would put an effort into taking something useful out of that, but it's 4:00 in the morning, Thanksgiving is tomorrow, and I'm dog tired. Next time I will =P

And, last but not least, ¡Viva Mannicagua! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=455717)

Oh, I don't want to be a bother---it's just that I've got 35 pages of this stuff that would have to go down the crapper...But I heartily thank Ianisle for being so willing to compromise. It all works out now. Oh, and if everyone else is going to make an arms pitch...Come to Russia, traditional supplier of third world revolutions. Oh sure, you could have cheap knockoffs of our goods from other nations, but ours are just as cheap, and come straight from the source! Russia, the most trusted name in third world revolution/terrorism! 10/10 of Revolutionaries recommend it! (Because we shot the others...)

"(Because we shot the others...)"

Pff, you wish =)

Oh, I don't want to be a bother---it's just that I've got 35 pages of this stuff that would have to go down the crapper...But I heartily thank Ianisle for being so willing to compromise. It all works out now. Oh, and if everyone else is going to make an arms pitch...Come to Russia, traditional supplier of third world revolutions. Oh sure, you could have cheap knockoffs of our goods from other nations, but ours are just as cheap, and come straight from the source! Russia, the most trusted name in third world revolution/terrorism! 10/10 of Revolutionaries recommend it! (Because we shot the others...)

Bah for your firearms you really want to visit Robinson Arms or Henderson's Fine Arms, both of Strathdonia, from the useful to the vastly over powered i'm sure they can come up with something for you, be it a PKM rechambered for .303Brit or a No5 jungle carbine adapted to use .510Phanlax they can come up with the solution for you.
Actually they probabaly don't have the capacity do more than supply a few local police forces or produce custom arms for the Discearning Dictator, sorry benevolent Father figure...