NationStates Jolt Archive

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http://s9.invisionfree.com/NS_Modern_World/

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Who are you referring to?

Oshima and Izu aka AMW's Japan.

His last post on any of these forums was on the 9th December 2004, where he apologised for being previously inactive and said that he'd be around more often. I just checked his nation, he last logged in 13 days ago, so he could have posted a short update saying whether he's coming back or not.

I've been discussing an RP idea with a few people involving Japan and they're interested if it goes ahead, so now I need O&I's permission to go ahead with it. Trouble is, if he's not around then I can't get permission, and if I can't get permission then the RP doesn't go ahead. I've sent him a TG about the idea, but since he's inactive I haven't had a reply.

As I said previously, I understand that people have other things in their lives than this place, but it's not like he hasn't been logging in; he's been logging in and not taking part in any way. This is why I say that two or three weeks without a situation update is understandable due to holiday/family crisis/moving house/etc., but almost four months seems a tad long, especially if he's got time to log on.

Right now, I don't know if he plans to continue in AMW or if he's just left without bothering to tell us. Has anyone else heard anything from him? Regarding the RP, should I try starting it in the hopes of catching his attention, or should I abandon the idea? I simply don't think it's fair to have Japan off-limits to RPs because O&I is never around.

EDIT: I have to ask, which region is Chuang-Han China in these days? I just tried searching for him, and NS couldn't find him. Perhaps it's time to go through the membership and find out who exactly is still around.

Mh, yeah, I was sort of under the impression that Sino and Xiaguo had more or less decided to swallow Chuang Han, and that O&I had never really... consumated his relationship with AMW. I could be wrong, but I've never seen the latter do anything at all. That's his right, but not really while occupying an important part of AMW, eh?

Oh shot, yes, he told me his account had been deleted, and I've no time to get his account back, even though he's not online most of the time.

I think we need to develope some sort of rule, AWM RPers will get 1 and a half months unless vacation, or any other excuse or else they will be booted off the list and replaced.

http://s9.invisionfree.com/NS_Modern_World/
AMW Forum, now, let's post up statistics and the current list of, AMW.

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Does someone want to update the membership roster then?
WWJD
Amen.

Mh, yeah, I was sort of under the impression that Sino and Xiaguo had more or less decided to swallow Chuang Han, and that O&I had never really... consumated his relationship with AMW. I could be wrong, but I've never seen the latter do anything at all. That's his right, but not really while occupying an important part of AMW, eh?

We had made some trade and security arrangements with the Ringist Shogunate by telegram, and had been planning a forum RP to enter a security triangle treaty... but that was quite some time ago.

It would be nice to find good RPers for Japan, and for Germany, as they seem too important to be eft to the whimsies and OOC debates of NPCdom. Still, I can't help but reminisce on the Japann War, which solidified both the imperilist reputation of Bonstock and the Azn Alliance (of which members or former members made up the vast majority of AMWs 'fist wave'). Oh, the memories :D

OOC: Okay, no-one knows this IC except Elkazor and myself....

My planned RP was a revival of groups like the Dark Ocean Society and the Black Dragons. Sick of Teike domination over the Yamato, they try to overthrow the 'alien' Teike Dynasty and re-establish the Yamato throne.

These Yamato nationalists are currently loitering in South America, being trained and funded by the NeoSuunists and the Pacific Lotus. There was also going to be the revelation that Toyama is the real family name, rather than Suun; Mikada got kicked out of the Yamato nationalists for being too left-wing, but now that Chiisu's essentially gone fascist they see it as time for Toyama Mitsuru's descendent to liberate Japan from evil influences, such as 'the evil Teike usurpers and the Lyong socialists that support them'.

Okay, end of RP storyline revelations.

I don't know how comfortable anyone would feel with the idea of a newly nationalist Japan though; I mean, it would change the Asian situation pretty drastically (and probably get nuked by Sino in the first five minutes of existence). I admit it, I'd love to break back into Asia, and Japan would be the nation I'd pick if I had the opportunity. Besides, I wouldn't just start from scratch; I'd take O&I's storyline and run with it, so the new guys would have to try eradicating the influence of a former dynasty.

I realise that I'm probably not a first (or second or even third) choice to be allowed Japan, but if given the opportunity I'd do my best to show that I can run with it. Anyway, it's up to you guys.

OOC: If anyone's interested, here are some details of the Elias military:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=406901

Well, I was never very comfortable with O&I's portrayal of Japan... veiled hints at intent to invade us aside, I've spent too much time pouring through bloody opinion polls and articles to really think Ringist power was possible without a massive rewriting of Japanese culture. Spyr was always a supporter of the DPJ, anyway ('always' not being the best term... hrm).

It'd be nice to have the NeoSuunists back in Asia, even if they have done a political 180. It'd also screw up any possible socialist triad between Japan, Drapoel and Lyong...looks like another step back for Korean Unification.

Man, whats with the conservative nationalists popping up everywhere? Whatever happened to liberal democracy?

It'd be nice to have the NeoSuunists back in Asia, even if they have done a political 180. It'd also screw up any possible socialist triad between Japan, Drapoel and Lyong...looks like another step back for Korean Unification.

Man, whats with the conservative nationalists popping up everywhere? Whatever happened to liberal democracy?

This is Marmy/Peru calling:

Behold.....

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=407236

'Yamato Never Dies'

http://s9.invisionfree.com/NS_Modern_World/
AMW Forum, now, let's post up statistics and the current list of, AMW.

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Xiaguo, I fail to understand why we need a seperate forum for AMW. Can't we simply continue using NS?

Yeah, I've signed up to keep an eye on things, but I don't really intend to contribute much outside of the NS forums, which seem largely sufficient when coupled with the telegram feature.

It'd be nice to have the NeoSuunists back in Asia, even if they have done a political 180. It'd also screw up any possible socialist triad between Japan, Drapoel and Lyong...looks like another step back for Korean Unification.

Man, whats with the conservative nationalists popping up everywhere? Whatever happened to liberal democracy?
OOC: Waht about consevative democracy? Why does it have to be liberal democracy or conservative nationalists?

Because conservatism sits better with the patriot than the free-thinker, and is for stuffy old nationalists :)
Democracy in any form that isn't hijacked by an elite or a single agenda sits uncomfortably with nationhood at the best of times, being rule by the people, really, and making do with being rule by the people... so long as they're German (for example), instead.

And because that just happens to be the case in some people's perceptions of AMW, whatever the reasons.

OCC: Well, conservative democracy is something of a rarity. Pro-democracy activists tend to be pro-many other things as well. International politics is not simple black-and-white Republicans v.s. Democrats, as it seems to be these days in the home country.

*Sighs, waits for the end of the two-party system*

After all, most countries have more to worry about than homosexuals getting married, abortion, social security problems, and the cloud of other ridiculously petty issues that take up too much time and money. So it is not easy to group democracies into conservative and liberal. Democracies are, on the whole, liberal by the very fact that they took a conservative (i.e. military dictatorship) government and introduced new rights and liberties. Hence the name liberal-in favor of change.

I wouldn't call democracy any more liberal than a dictatorship. After all, one can be socialist to the extreme and still be a dictatorship. Institutions of democracy and totalitarianism don't really favor one side of the political coin. And conservative democracies a rarity? What about the US? And Asutralia? And Poland (well, soon-to-be, as the elections are coming up and the left is looking for a big loss). Hell, even Britain would be conservative, if not for that consaervative party's sheer incompetence.

And what does socialism have to do with liberalism?
I think the problem might simply be that you're deeply confused by the increasingly conservative quagmire in which you live.

"Conservative Quagmire"? Liberalism is a modern euphimism of the Left side of the political spectrum. A "liberal" is a "left winger", and socialism falls upon the left side of things. And trust me LRR, a two party system is actually a good system. I've been to nations with multi-party democracies, and things are so muddled and unclear that the moderates get split up amongst tiny splinter parties, while extremists cling together and get power. The problem with the US's two party system is that it seems at times to be a one party system, as it seems like no matter who I vote for, a left winger is all I can get...

I wouldn't call democracy any more liberal than a dictatorship. After all, one can be socialist to the extreme and still be a dictatorship. Institutions of democracy and totalitarianism don't really favor one side of the political coin. And conservative democracies a rarity? What about the US? And Asutralia? And Poland (well, soon-to-be, as the elections are coming up and the left is looking for a big loss). Hell, even Britain would be conservative, if not for that consaervative party's sheer incompetence.

Well, as has been possibly stated above, one might argue that democracies are all cases of liberalism, some less so than others, as they extend rights and benefits far beyond those of conservative systems.

To say that there is a political coin with two sides seems a vast oversimplification... after all, capitalism has always been the great foe of conservatives, but to place it in the 'liberal bloc' would bring it into conflict with communism. Rather, there are a myriad of blended positions... democracy and totalitarianism too are human contrivances, and to claim that they have no ideological basis seems rather foolish. They have their place as components of ideology, and are certainly not devoid of ideological underpinnings.

I'm looking at it from a modern political spectrum. Modern-day conservatives are vigorous defenders of democracy, and would be the greatest foes of monarchial "conservatives." Our enitre philosophy concencrates on preserving traditional moral values, fighting for democracy, and promoting capitalism. That's why I believe some things don't fit as left or right wing. Racism, totalitarianism, and others fit into this concept of neither right nor left---instead, they are simply: wrong.

Our enitre philosophy concencrates on preserving traditional moral values, fighting for democracy, and promoting capitalism.

Whose traditional moral values? Different people value vastly different things...thats why the left and the right will never agree. They have different value systems...

Yo!

I dislike FT. I was going to go all FT and have wanky wars in II. But I sense now that they would not be all that amusing.
Screw all that.

So, is there room in AMW for lil ole me? I notice the first post says you're not accepting new members, but... well, that WAS 14 pages ago...

Ok, heres the 'list'... itd be helpful if we could get a volunteer or two to check with those listed as inactive, and if we could resolve and contact the pending applicants to see if a) they are acceptable, and b) they are still interested.
Also, if you see anyone in the 'active' list who isnt, or someone missing, point them out!

Trostia: We are, soret-of, accepting new applicants, but its slow as we still have a lot of stuff unresolved with inactivity and pending applicants.

Active and Accepted:

Quinntonia: USA, Hamhung & Hungnam

Dra-pol: northern Korea, to south of Seoul, less Hamhung & Hungnam

Beth Gellert: Sri Lanka, Indian states of Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh, Orissa, Chhatisgarh

Andaman and Nicobar: Andaman and Nicobar Islands

Sujava: Java (less Sunda), Sumatra (less Aceh, incl. Riau-Lingga Archipelago), Madura, Bali, Lesser Sunda Islands (to Tanimbar).

Bonstock: Singapore

Roycelandia: Cuba, Jamaica, The Bahamas, Hispaniola, St Kitts and Nevis, Attu and Kisaka Islands, Cape Verde Islands, Kenya, Sudan, Uganda, Southern Gabon

Lusaka: Most of Tanzania, Eastern Zambia, part of DR Congo

Al Khals: part of Tanzania

Strathdonia: Malawi

African Commonwealth: Most of DR Congo, northern R Congo, Rwanda, Burundi

The British Federation: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and its Overseas Territories

United Elias: Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Bahrain, Qatar, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Brunei, Belize, Seychelles, Western Gabon

Lavrageria: parts of Belarus

The Estenlands: Ukraine, parts of Belarus

Bendorel: Sicily, Sardinia, Malta

Elkazor: France

Armandian Cheese: Russia (less Primorye)

Al-Ahzad: Oman and Yemen (less Socotra)

SwissCorp: Switzerland

Spyr: Lyong Peninsula

Tord: Lyong Peninsula

North Yaman: Lyong Peninsula

Lunatic Retard Robots: Madhya Pradesh, West Bengal, About 1/4th of Uttar Pradesh, Jharkhand, Bihar, Matharashtra, Gujarat

Mahratta Confederacy: Rajasthan, Delhi, Haryana, ¾ of Uttar Pradesh, Uttranchal, Punjab, Himachal Pradesh, Jammu and Kashmir.

East Islandia: Australia, western New Guinea

Sino: Much of southern China

Xiaguo: Northern China, Mongolia.

_Taiwan: Taiwan

Sabir: Syria, Lebanon, and the Turkish provinces of Hatay, Gaziantep, Şanlıurfa, Kilis, Mardin, Osmaniye, Diyarbakir, Adiyaman, Batman, Sirnak, Siirt

Asgard Combine: Iceland

Trucial States: United Arab Emirates

Doomingsland: Italy (less Sicily & Sardinia)

Grande Peru: Peru

The Macabees: Spain

Yafor 2: Turkey, less provinces contained within Sabir


Approved but apparently Inactive

Simba: Mozambique

Chuang-Han China: Part of southern China, including Hainan.

Wulashien: Phillipines

Sangun: Vietnam

Hudecia: Canada

Oshima and Izu: Japan

Indonesia: Sulawesi, Aceh, Sunda (Western Java less Jakarta), Borneo (less Brunei).

Pending applications (status of player interest unknown)

Kopparbergs: Sweden

Promise of Joshua: Norway

Kill YOU Dead : Armenia, Georgia, Azerbajian

Unified Sith: Germany

Corporate Bangladesh: Bangladesh

Piquantrax: Puerto Rico

Rubberduckistan: Finland

Sevaris: South Africa

Tom Joad: South Africa

Withinyouwthoutme: Mexico

Citalta: Argentina, Uruguay, Chile

Well Simba is gone, his accoutn got deleted and as far as i'm aware he isn't really interested in coming back.
As such Mozambique is currently the centre of attention in the Winds of change thread:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=401111

basically while the end results are unclear we are of a mind that there will be new LRR hippy love fest in the northern district of Cal Delgado, bordered to the west by a district that has asked to be annexed by Strathdonia and a still apparently loyal (or possibly chaotic) district to the south.

movign south Zambezia has been occupied by a Strathdonia/Roycelandia peacekeeping force and UE is moving in on some of the other southern districts.

As the end result is open a new nation could be fitted in. Of particular interest to me would be a nation alined with Lusaka/zimbabwe to create some tension.

of course an active South Africa would be nice too...

Well, as far as I know...

Hudecia is now at Universirty and has no time for NS, also died of inactivity.

I had thouht so too... if he's been deleted, then Kalla's Indonesia follows suite.

Well, but didn't Hudecia announce that he may come back? Shouldn't we allow him to suspend the nation, since he didn't simply vanish.

Indeed... no one happens to have contact with him outside NS?

I think he said Canada would at least go into isolation, which I take to apply to all factors (NATO, NORAD, Quinntonian access to Canadian territory, and the BC branch of the Strainist Party :( ).

Though, he did suggest that Bonstock/Singapore possibly assume control of Kalla's Indonesia, did he not?

Uh oh, Trostia.

If it ever matters, I'd back Trostia's inclusion.

I assume that Trostia more or less understands what it is all about, eh? Have any ideas in mind about where or what you'd play? (Feel free to use whatever it is to attack the hell out of the Crimea if you join, by the by :) )


Bendorel, SwissCorp, and Asgard Combine: are they active in AMW, at all? I think that some have even been deleted for inactivity.

To others pending, I think you can see why the process of incorporating new nations is a bit messy, and why you may be feeling ignored... we really need sustained input or else we end up wondering who is really going to play and who just thought it looked interesting, and wanted to get a claim in quick before really deciding... only to fade away.

I'm okay with reserving Canada as Hudecia in the short term... unless we get really enthusiastic application from a good player desperate to play in or as Canada, I don't see it being a problem for a while.

By the time I post this, it may not be an issue, but hey, I can see Sabir on Spyr's list, UE :)

Bendorel was once active, complete with a formation and electoral thread, and Asgard Combine sold targeting systems secretly to Al-Ahzad... but they haven't posted anything really recently that I'm aware of.

Well Simba is gone, his accoutn got deleted and as far as i'm aware he isn't really interested in coming back.
As such Mozambique is currently the centre of attention in the Winds of change thread:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=401111

basically while the end results are unclear we are of a mind that there will be new LRR hippy love fest in the northern district of Cal Delgado, bordered to the west by a district that has asked to be annexed by Strathdonia and a still apparently loyal (or possibly chaotic) district to the south.

What you talk about? Hippy love fest? Non, my no means! More like 'don't make love so much because we're all dying of AIDS' fest. Getting rid of an oppressive dictator and transferring some of the ridiculous amount of military funding to do some good things, namely invest in disease prevention programs and education, hardly qualifies as a hippy lovefest. Unless you want to call the end of Aparthied a hippy lovefest, or numerous other such events.

Geesh, I get so much trouble from you guys! Everything I do I get called a hippy! I fight off Xiaguo (which despite crippling incompetence is still a big army) and I get called hippy, I just about single-handedly equip Al-Ahzad's army and I get called hippy. I could probably raise a million-man army and still be called a hippy! There is a difference between being concerned with things and being ridiculous.

Just because I don't run to every corner of the globe with Kalashnikov in one hand and Das Kapital in the other doesn't mean I'm not every bit as willing to fight for my rights as BG.

Hmm just looking for a handle on this. It'd really help if there was a map of who controls what (and what is currently npc/limbo).

I can't say I'll be wholly active, it really depends, but I try. (I've still got the second highest postcount in EE if that means anything. Probably not considering how much spam I do.)

In the meantime I'll romp around this forum.

I'll try to make the map.

Hmm just looking for a handle on this. It'd really help if there was a map of who controls what (and what is currently npc/limbo).

I can't say I'll be wholly active, it really depends, but I try. (I've still got the second highest postcount in EE if that means anything. Probably not considering how much spam I do.)

In the meantime I'll romp around this forum.

EE?

Anyway, it's nice to have you on board. AMW needs more RPers.

(EE = Eastern Europe, land in which Trostia is A.K.A. the Crimean Giant, and BG is formerly the expansionist red menace in the north, and now a little enclave of Finnish territory bearing a remarkable similarity to The Prisoner.)

Seeing as all MW members will hopefully be checking this thread, this is probably the easiest place for me to say that I will be away for just over a week and most likely will not be posting during that period. I realise I'm currently involved in a quite a number of active RPs, so I apologise for the inconvenience.

Hey everybody...er...I've sort of been getting an urge to uproot lately...

Do you think I could split West Bengal, Bihar, and Jharkhand between BG and Mataraja (s.p.), perhaps Madhya Pradesh too, and add in Pakistan? I'd still be bordering Tibet so I could pressure Sinoese forces, and I would still border BG. It would also give access into the recently shaking-up Central Asian region.

I'm sorry for being so fidgety, but I can't help it!

Yes, I believe that is possible without resulting in much retaliation, maybe just for Sino..

So how would we go about this ICly?

So how would we go about this ICly?

I was thinking that we just assumed that things were always that way. As I plan to award BG West Bengal and Jharkhand (while in the interest of fairness cedeing the entirety of Uttar Pradesh and Bihar to the third India), my involvement in Nepal could have easily been conducted via Beth Gellert, with units transported along railways and/or drawn from the Matharastra/Madhya Pradesh area.

Well, I would agree except for the Pakistan part. Two reasons:
1. Doesn't UE have it?
2. The Muslim fundamentalist population would never agree to both your style of government and with unification with India. Some things we can realistically tweak, but this would be like saying the USA would love to have King George back in charge.

Or France/Ukraine/Italy would return to feudalism...

AMW seems tohave a lot of discretion as to what populations wil support. after all, given India's current divisions, the Brit sponsored Hindu-Muslim split may not have occured in the same manner as RL.

Hmm...I forgot about that. Still, Pakistan uniting with India...in a hippy style moderate socialist regime? It would be like the entire nation of Saudi Arabia converted to Judaism, and became Israeli citizens...

Is there any room for new countries? If so, I would like to be located in the Western Sahara.

Can someone help me with who owns what here?

...or celts forging an empire in the Indian subcontinent...or an imaginary peninsula north of korea...or China, where ever fifteenth citizen is in the military...or a militant Canada that would go so far as to attack asian nations...

Thats the imaginative beauty of nation states. I say let him do it. There's a lot crazier things in AMW...whose to say Hindu or Islam hasn't been replaced by a different religion of the area, and Hindustan(or whatever it'll be called) is the peaceful creation of this new theology.

Can I be Western Sahara?

Yeah, the Geletian migration would have laid a different groundwork through India and the surrounding area, anyway, which we largely ignore at the moment as it's easier to have NPC nations as they are in reality than to try imagining what they might be like in AMW but without anyone controlling them.

Did anyone end up taking Pakistan before? No?

Hm, well, I don't mind Hundustan changing, because, to be honest, I never caught up with what the rest of India looked like after the new chap turned up and Hindustan changed around a bit, before. It does make sense to keep up joined up to the Kanendru area, but then adding West Bengal and Jharkhand to the Commonwealth would put the population up rather dramatically, beyond four hundred million. I can't really give up land to compensate, as it'd really screw up the Commonwealth as I have it, so BG would have to suddenly over take Quinntonia and become a bit more in line with the Chinas in terms of population.

Maybe if I do it I'll add in some disasters -a few earthquakes, some cyclones, and flooding that all hit West Bengal- and more to the point sink a good bit of GDP into preventing or dealing with them, so that in other respects the economy may not be quite so productive. It'll probably tip the ethnic balance further against the Celts, too, who though far from a ruling class or oppressors in the modern age, have, thanks to such things in the distant past, enjoyed a disproportionate cultural dominance in the Commonwealth, so I suppose I could compensate for a significant population and territorial boost by creating troubles we've never had to deal with before in AMW.

Mh, I suppose we could do it, then.

As to the new fellow, Hajjiyah, I don't know... we don't really know anything about you, and it's nothing personal, but we're just a bit edgy about letting any old person in right away in case they turn out to be a bad sport or just a rubbish role player :) That's not a reflection on you, you might be great for all I know, we just can't really say yes while the only posts we've seen from you are ones requesting land on a couple of earths. But perhaps someone else will have something more constructive to say to you.

Does this world have an RP thread anywhere? I would really like to prove to you my interest.

We have several. However, you have to provide a sample of past RPs, and some description of how you want to run the country, for approval.

Where would I find a place to do other RPs? I've RPed on other boards before, but not this one...

Hajjiyah would be run as a nation dependent on a major power (preferably one with USSR-style equipment) for military equipment and training, yet supportive of Islamic fundamentalism. My nation would probably attempt to manufacture or purchase NBC weapons, but not have any to begin with. Hajjiyah would do a lot of sabre-rattling with neighbors, and might get into some low-intensity border wars or minor scuffles, but would probably pull back and appeal to the earlier-mentioned major power for help if things got difficult.

Try posting in International Incidents... a News Release announcing your Nation's willingness to open up for trade, or perhaps an internal conflict resulting from an Archaeological dig (One group wants the Artifact on display in a Museum, the other wants it left undisturbed...) You get the idea.

Under NO circumstances post a "We declare war on (Insert Nation)" thread, however.

Read the stickies at the top of the forums...

Hmm...I forgot about that. Still, Pakistan uniting with India...in a hippy style moderate socialist regime? It would be like the entire nation of Saudi Arabia converted to Judaism, and became Israeli citizens...

Hippy style? HIPPY STYLE?!?!? Gandhist is more like it.

And plus, if it wasn't for me and BG you could kiss your siberian oil goodbye.

Hajjiyah, could you provide an RP sample of yours?

Also for the reference, here is a farily up-to-date list of the AMW's threads.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=377971

Yeah, the Geletian migration would have laid a different groundwork through India and the surrounding area, anyway, which we largely ignore at the moment as it's easier to have NPC nations as they are in reality than to try imagining what they might be like in AMW but without anyone controlling them.

Did anyone end up taking Pakistan before? No?

Hm, well, I don't mind Hundustan changing, because, to be honest, I never caught up with what the rest of India looked like after the new chap turned up and Hindustan changed around a bit, before. It does make sense to keep up joined up to the Kanendru area, but then adding West Bengal and Jharkhand to the Commonwealth would put the population up rather dramatically, beyond four hundred million. I can't really give up land to compensate, as it'd really screw up the Commonwealth as I have it, so BG would have to suddenly over take Quinntonia and become a bit more in line with the Chinas in terms of population.

Maybe if I do it I'll add in some disasters -a few earthquakes, some cyclones, and flooding that all hit West Bengal- and more to the point sink a good bit of GDP into preventing or dealing with them, so that in other respects the economy may not be quite so productive. It'll probably tip the ethnic balance further against the Celts, too, who though far from a ruling class or oppressors in the modern age, have, thanks to such things in the distant past, enjoyed a disproportionate cultural dominance in the Commonwealth, so I suppose I could compensate for a significant population and territorial boost by creating troubles we've never had to deal with before in AMW.

Mh, I suppose we could do it, then.

As to the new fellow, Hajjiyah, I don't know... we don't really know anything about you, and it's nothing personal, but we're just a bit edgy about letting any old person in right away in case they turn out to be a bad sport or just a rubbish role player :) That's not a reflection on you, you might be great for all I know, we just can't really say yes while the only posts we've seen from you are ones requesting land on a couple of earths. But perhaps someone else will have something more constructive to say to you.


Thanks, BG, for your approval.

Perhaps you could adopt those territories but not increase population? Mabye more concentrated social programs and a higher standard of living have kept the birthrate down to a more acceptable level.

I don't see whats wrong with assuming that Pakistan is part of Hindustan. After all, there's freedom of religion and if we say that Pakistan and Hindustan were one since the late 1940s many of the factors that led to its current state of affairs would be circumvented. After all, if we view history through the glasses of Ibn-Khaldun's sociology, if I avoid the causes I'll avoid the effects too. Islamic extremism is simply a reaction to certain social, economic, and political conditions. If such conditions do not arise, its all smooth sailing. Gandhi was shot by a Hindu, not a Muslim, and if the government provides viable alternatives to jingoism and fundamentalism they won't arise in any notable quantity.

All right...here are a few excerpts from RPing from a different forum.

At high noon the four massive guns of the Midelt Naval Arsenal boomed one after another as the New Year's Day celebrations continued in Midelt. The old, ceremonial cannons of the large castle belonging to the provincial governor on the opposite side of the harbor from the Arsenal were being fired off, too, although any noise they added was drowned out by the powerful blasts from the 8" breechloaders. The crowds were in the streets and in the bazaars, drinking cheap wine, eating different kinds of exotic foods, and buying all sorts of goods, both manufactured and homemade. The official parade of the local military garrison was parading along the piersides to the tune of a march, although no one was watching or caring.

Captain Revesh Urtak's mind was drowning out these sounds, however. He was a short, stocky man with a long, black beard and a thin, finely-waxed mustache. If he had been wearing a robe and tunic instead of his tropical white uniform he certainly would've been taken for another of the loud Mergians(2). Despite the fact that he had been at sea in his cruiser the Malawiya for several months he wasn't eager to join the celebrations. He had important news for the Sultan.

He strode purposefully up to a half-drunk man standing next to a rickshaw, slapped him, gave him a small copper coin and grunted, "Palace!" The filthy fellow didn't need to be told twice. The punishment for disobeying an officer of Hajj's armed forces was death.

As he was pulled, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, depending on how crowded the street was, he took out his newfangled Hellas-made monocle and looked over the map he had had his navigator draw in their exploratory voyage. The map was of a large continent 2500 miles to the west, filled with white-skinned people whose language was an incomprehensible muttering and who did know of Allah. It was this news that he had to report to the Sultan.

When the rickshaw arrived outside of the governor's castle half an hour later Urtak quickly jumped out of it without giving another word to its now dust-encrusted operator. He walked briskly towards the old gatehouse, where the telegraph was installed. He dictated a quick message to a weak, frail-looking Hijazi(3) (obviously a beaurecrat), then sat down, grabbed that day's newspaper, and began catching up on what had happened while he had been away, waiting for a reply.

*********************************************************

rivate Ughur Turkoglu was a rather tall, skinny, timid Hijazi from the hot, well-irrigated province of Dumayn, the location of the ruins of what was reputed to be the oldest city in the world, Il. As an inhabitant of that fertile region, he knew that rebel-ridden Tamesna Province was not where Allah meant him to be. Barren and rugged, Tamesna Province was populated almost entirely with Nejdi, Hajj's largest and most influential minority. A warlike people, the Nejdi were good soldiers, and had been an important constituency of the Sultanate since Osman III had conquered them in 1501. They were especially good in the mountains.

You might ask, why not then were Nejdi troops putting down the rebellion? the truth of the matter was, they were the rebellion. At least several thousand of them, anyway. They were the last supporters of the last Sultan, Mehmet III, who had been dethroned and (supposedly) executed by his younger brother, the current Sultan, Fatik V. These Nejdi mountain-men were led by a figure who claimed to be Mehmet; whether he was a pretender or not, Ughur could care less.

Ughur remained crouched fearfully, almost cowardly behind his boulder. His regiment had been marching south, towards the warmer coast and home when they had been ambushed by the rebels. He had fled to the closest cover. Mere miles away from safety, he thought as he pondered whether it was safe to take a furtive glance around his rock, and now I will never get home. No more days spent in the cool shade of palms, no more Father and Mother, no more... He couldn't imagine never seeing his sweetheart Lizbet again. What a happy life they could have had together...

He snapped out of his daydreaming reverie when he felt a tug on his shoulder. Instinctively he turned, ready to jab his bayonet into a Nejdi. Instead it was his seargent, who was looking at him with obvious disgust and disdain.

"For Allah's sake, Turkoglu, get back into the column. The attack is over."

"Yes sir."

I may still make it home after all.

*********************************************************

Theodosius Cyprian was the Byzantine Empire's most esteemed public construction supervisor. He wasn't walking into his regular office this morning. The day before he had received a note from his boss telling him to drop his task of figuring out how much concrete was needed for the new, ten-story Chronometer Tower planned for the north side of the Andornicus Victory Square, itself a construction project he had overseen in his earlier days. Today, he was going to, of all places, the Foreign Ministry Building, located in the Royal Quarter, the beaurecratic center of the empire.

It has to be about the new colonization fleet that set out three days ago, he thought to himself, but why? They already said that I was needed more here working on the Chrono Tower.

Two Varangian Guards dressed in all their militaristic finery were there when he stepped out of his Elevated Transportation System coach at the Golden Horn Boulevard Station. He was hustled down a flight of stairs, into a waiting coach. After a rather bumpy ride of around five minutes and another few minutes walk up overdecorated staircases and through mahogany-lined and carpet-strewn hallways he was in an equally ornate office. He knew the beady-eyed man sitting behind the teak desk as soon as he saw him. It was the Deputy Foreign Aid Minister. He had done a few railroad bridge jobs in Hellas for him.

"What do you want, Andrew? You didn't need to hurry me so fast, I have feet..."

"Don't waste my time, I'm busier than you might think. Look at this." He handed him a a thick stack of papers. "My architects drew these up. I want a report on my desk in five days, no less. Put every man you have on this."

Theodosius was about to laugh until he glanced at what it was.

Half an hour later he and hundreds of his underlings were at work on the estimates.

********************************************************

Theodosius Cyprian and his company's designers and estimators had been hard pushed for time, but had got the job done miraculously. He pushed a 1200-page towards the Deputy Foreign Trade Minister.

"I got your little project done, Andrew. But I'd like to know, why do you think your boss allows you to pay me overtime wages for three hundred people for an insane little scheme like this that will never go through?"

"Its not my little project. Its fact. The ambassador to the Arrusans is discussing it now."

"No...you can't...this is a joke! Nothing like this has ever been attempted...in the world!"

"And who else, but Byzantium?"

"Well...who's going to build it? There aren't laborers in Byzantium just lying around, so...oh. The Arrusans."

The deputy minister smiled at him. "You're actually pretty quick on the uptake, Theo. That is why you're overseeing construction."

Theodosius' heart almost stopped. He was going to be in charge of the world's most ambitious engineering project. He could only sputter out,

"Th-th-th-thank you."

"Not at all. You're the best man we have."

********************************************************

More excerpts available upon request.

Note that although these are short, it was because this was a very busy time for me. I can write longer.

Hello there. I'm here to talk about the possibility of me handing over TBF or else simply letting the UK become NPC in the near future. I've thought about it for a while, and even talked about offering it to somebody else at one point, but I haven't been in any desperate hurry.

Basically, I can see that if I carry-on long term, the British Industrial Democrats are going to continue their subtle progress towards the Spyrians and eventually the Beddgelens and such, which has been done cautiously so as to avoid alarming gradually reduced rightist elements in the government and electorate, and, as importantly, Baghdad. Frankly, I think that if I continue, we will win all too easily, as the radicals in Bull's government see little challenge to over-come in the Holy League, and that after this, it is not so small a matter to support massive progress to their point of view in Africa, Latin America, much of China and East Asia, and probably to do a lot of it without seriously alienating the Quinntonians. In fact, if we were to act now, it would all be over for the Holy League. And it occurs to me that having things my way isn't as fun as it would be to play Pol Pot or some loony King, and I've done all that. So maybe I've run out of things to do.

I'm happy to see it done in other nations, and to go to the extreme with the UK would just feel like copying and playing along, where another player would probably feel obliged to have Britain amongst the world leaders in some respect. Equally, just playing Britain as not much different to what it really is just feels like watching the news and giving a resigned sigh, you know?

So there you go. Originally I thought that Strath might like to take the UK, as I think he perhaps originally had bigger ideas than turning Malawi a bit Scottish :) But I wouldn't want to ruin Strathdonia for him by trying to force Britain on him, so I don't know if he wants it. Erm. If anyone else is interested, we can consider that possibility, or, perhaps new players being interested would like to know that something believable as a major power is still available, as opposed to just Burkina and Mexico!

If anyone does take over, I won't mind if they continue as the BID government of John Bull, or have him lose an election, or fall to a monarchist plot as the legitimate Plantagenet returns. I've got a little information on what changes happened under Bull, so they'd have to continue to begin with, but could be reversed in character if desired (things like new warship classes recently launched and nationalisations of iconic industrial concerns).

In short, I've finally decided to stop dithering about and admit that I don't have the resources to devote to a properly active United Kingdom in AMW. It's too good a community and too significant a nation there in. I'll either hand the nation over to another, or just let it die.

If somebody else takes control over The British Federation, I'll update them on basically what changes have happened, what happened to the armed forces, blah blah.

*cries*

We'll miss you TBF...I was hoping on some british humantarian aid in the lavragerian revolution currently on. As for the Holy League...they are Imperialists, and are thus expansionists. The revolutionary nations have only their creeds to peddle, and we don't assimilate populations...they have to come to us. So you may see that the balance will be dipped sooner or later to the HL, they're even in Japan now...

Am I accepted?

Thanks, BG, for your approval.

Perhaps you could adopt those territories but not increase population? Mabye more concentrated social programs and a higher standard of living have kept the birthrate down to a more acceptable level.

I don't see whats wrong with assuming that Pakistan is part of Hindustan. After all, there's freedom of religion and if we say that Pakistan and Hindustan were one since the late 1940s many of the factors that led to its current state of affairs would be circumvented. After all, if we view history through the glasses of Ibn-Khaldun's sociology, if I avoid the causes I'll avoid the effects too. Islamic extremism is simply a reaction to certain social, economic, and political conditions. If such conditions do not arise, its all smooth sailing. Gandhi was shot by a Hindu, not a Muslim, and if the government provides viable alternatives to jingoism and fundamentalism they won't arise in any notable quantity.
I wouldn't say that Islamic extremism is a reaction, but rather a vision. Islamofascism is an ideology, just like Communism, Nazism, etc. They all have a vision for their ideal world, and while it can be provoked by certain things, it is not spawned by the situation or actions. But whatever, if BG can claim that Communism works, a Lyongese penninsula can sprout out of Russia, and Quinntonia can have a population of entirely devout and pure Christians, why the hell not?

As for Ha...something, sure. You seem good, so I shall give you a stamp of approval. However, do note that you need one more stamp to gain entrance.

TBF, it's really too bad. I had a great time RPing the Lavragerian situation with you (despite some diplomatic quarrels), and wish you the best of luck in your future endeavours. God Save The Queen, ha. Oh, and TBF, just because the revolutionaries could defeat the Holy League doesn't mean you would prevail. After all, you forget capitalist, conservative democracies that still remain in power. Quinntonia, Russia, Roycelandia, etc...(Even Al-Ahzad's becoming a republic!) The extremist feudalists would be toppled, but by no means does that spell out a victory for the red banner.

As for Ha...something, sure. You seem good, so I shall give you a stamp of approval. However, do note that you need one more stamp to gain entrance.

And which stamp would that be?

What I mean is that you need one more member of AMW to approve you. By the way, if you wish to discuss this in more detail, check out the "A Modern World" region.

I'll support Hajjiyah...though I'd really like to know the type and location of the nation you're interested in roleplaying. Will you be using this 'Sultan' government for AMW rp?

Heck, it looks good. You also seem active enough.
*stamps Hajjiyah*

[Evil Genius] With TBF out of the way, Roycelandia and France will be unstoppable in their ultimate quest to turn the entire planet into Colonies of our glorious Empires! Our Legions of Imperialism will roll across the face of the planet, unstoppable in their terrifying glory! BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA![/Evil Genius].

Oh, I'm sorry, did I just say that out loud? Forget I said anything... :-P

Seriously though, it's sad to see you go, TBF. Why not RP Britain as being incredibly isolationist for the time being, whilst we sort out who (if anyone?) will assume control?

Or, TBF, a newer nation (hrrm, me) could have an interesting secario with you, me being the Ottomans and all. (as you can see, I am desperate for an RP)

Yafor, if you're so desperate for an Rp...Why don't you meddle in my Kazakhstani annexation, or start an introductory RP, laying out your nation and all. Oh, and you should consider joining the "A Modern World" region if you want to be more up to date on the goings on in AMW.

Don't make me hit you with another metaphore to explain how communism only fails when somebody sends a giant army against it to kill thousands of people, damn it! [shakes fist]

Hey, and you Roiks! Don't you get carried away. GB was always going to be moderate and associated with NATO... BG prefers to be right and to go her own way... and we're big enough to drag a couple of others along with us :)
Who wants free anti-empire sticks? [waves rifles]

I wouldn't say that Islamic extremism is a reaction, but rather a vision. Islamofascism is an ideology, just like Communism, Nazism, etc. They all have a vision for their ideal world, and while it can be provoked by certain things, it is not spawned by the situation or actions. But whatever, if BG can claim that Communism works, a Lyongese penninsula can sprout out of Russia, and Quinntonia can have a population of entirely devout and pure Christians, why the hell not?

I should rephrase;

perhaps Islamic Fundamentalism is an ideology, but its still affected by environmental conditions. Take communism for an example. It seems highly unlikely that it would have developed, at least not in its present form, if the industrial revolution measurably improved the condition of the working class instead of generating more hardship. Ideas don't just pop out of thin air, nor to followers. They come from someplace (I'm going out on a limb here-the birth of religions can not be so easily grouped as more earthly ideologies), and people have to be convinced to believe.

If Pakistan were quite a bit better off than it is, I find it difficult to believe that Islamic Fundamentalism would be able to compete with embracement philosophy (so named for religions' acceptance and love of one another; if this actually happens everywhere is doubtful, but it certainly exists in many places). If India and Pakistan never warred, the nationalism that exists in the Subcontinent today would have no grounds for survival.

I might be totally wrong, but I might be on to something too. Take Russia, for example: if the last Alexander was not such a lowlife, it is doubtful that the Bolsheviks would have even existed, much less been a force for political change. But sociology is difficult and inexact. Still, I may yet be irradiated by Sino so you don't have to worry about it.


So, I suppose that's that.

[Evil Genius] With TBF out of the way, Roycelandia and France will be unstoppable in their ultimate quest to turn the entire planet into Colonies of our glorious Empires! Our Legions of Imperialism will roll across the face of the planet, unstoppable in their terrifying glory! BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA![/Evil Genius].

Oh, I'm sorry, did I just say that out loud? Forget I said anything... :-P

Seriously though, it's sad to see you go, TBF. Why not RP Britain as being incredibly isolationist for the time being, whilst we sort out who (if anyone?) will assume control?
Actually, why don't you RP the Brits? I mean, Roycelandia's already a colonial version of Britain, after all.

I should rephrase;

perhaps Islamic Fundamentalism is an ideology, but its still affected by environmental conditions. Take communism for an example. It seems highly unlikely that it would have developed, at least not in its present form, if the industrial revolution measurably improved the condition of the working class instead of generating more hardship. Ideas don't just pop out of thin air, nor to followers. They come from someplace (I'm going out on a limb here-the birth of religions can not be so easily grouped as more earthly ideologies), and people have to be convinced to believe.

If Pakistan were quite a bit better off than it is, I find it difficult to believe that Islamic Fundamentalism would be able to compete with embracement philosophy (so named for religions' acceptance and love of one another; if this actually happens everywhere is doubtful, but it certainly exists in many places). If India and Pakistan never warred, the nationalism that exists in the Subcontinent today would have no grounds for survival.

I might be totally wrong, but I might be on to something too. Take Russia, for example: if the last Alexander was not such a lowlife, it is doubtful that the Bolsheviks would have even existed, much less been a force for political change. But sociology is difficult and inexact. Still, I may yet be irradiated by Sino so you don't have to worry about it.


So, I suppose that's that.
I agree, except for one caveat. The Industrial Revolution's initial stage was undoubtably harsh and brutal. However, as it progressed, life did become far better for the working class.

[Ah, yes, but it is interesting to note that capitalist economies began improvement of worker's conditions only after the spread of socialist thinking amongst those workers ;) ]

Actually, why don't you RP the Brits? I mean, Roycelandia's already a colonial version of Britain, after all.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

What are you saying, AC? Are you mad? Can you even imagine...no...begin to imagine what it would be like with Roycelandia in charge of England? It would be horrible! Africa would be two countries; Roycelandia and France. So would South America, and much of Asia would surely fall under their dominance.

Fortunately, BG has the resources to fight them overseas, and I have the resources to ward them away from the Indian subcontinent.

I... oh, what Spyr said.

Also on the Islamofascism thing, I think that LRR was going along the right lines. Maybe AC is right about the ideology coming along eventually, anyway, but without the conditions LRR speaks of, it is unlikely to catch on in any serious fashion.

And, hey, it wouldn't be all that bad: the Roiks have lost to African native armies in the past, and the same ones still exist, today. If it comes down to it, and BG is distracted all around the world, LRR can always just arm the Lusakans and help them to recruit freedom fighters in occupied Africa. That could really be something. Continental rebellion.

Which one of the other powers in this world wants a capitalistic, conservative Islamic country as their close ally, one which has a large fleet for its size?

In other words, my country is in present-day Western Sahara, and what role should I play in this world?

Hmmmmmm...does my country have to have its RL population? If so, I would prefer somewhere with a lot of people that hasn't been claimed yet.

Well, it looks like there's no objections to you joining, Hajjiyah. I don't know if any AMW nations fit exactly the big power you're looking for.

Major powers include:

Quinntonia, which replaces the USA, and is more or less a Christian theocracy, and possibly not then the natural ally of an Islamic state; though they may have no problems with you, they're probably unlike to take you under their wing.

Sino, which is southern China and is violently nationalistic and racist, and largely introspective, being apparently disinterested in anything that doesn't involve Chinamen.

Beth Gellert, which is much of southern India, and Sri Lanka; and is very near to pure communism, and as such thinks that your religion is funny at best, and a menace to freedom at worst.

Russia, which has to be included inspite of problems with corruption, rebellion, and so on, is a fairly right wing democracy, and will probably approve of your capitalism but will turn-up its presidential nose at curtailing of the freedom of any other relgions.

Arguably France, which has under gone a restoration of the monarchy and has just begun a violent attempt to restore its empire, attacking Algeria and placing a Catholic in power, which has fermented a return of Islamic extremism in the south- possibly worth keeping an eye on that, but France is not a likely ally for your people.

Roycelandia exists in the Caribbean, but has an extensive African empire in Sudan, Kenya, and Uganda. It is nominally democratic, and I think takes religion about as seriously as Beth Gellert does. If anything, they may try to annex you if you don't look very powerful, and possibly to place bets on how many camels the Emperor can stun with his loud shirt in a single hunt.

I've probably forgotten somebody, but this about brings me to United Elias, which holds territory across Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and so on. Possibly you should look to them for support, but do it carefully, as though the population is presumably largely Muslim, the government is not one run by Islamic Law. It is a dictatorship at the top (isn' it?), though.

I don't think we've got any religious empires beyond the members of the catholic Holy League and arguably the more-varied Christian peoples of Quinntonia.

I'm sorry, I just felt like rambling on for a bit, I hadn't posted in a few minutes :) Try United Elias, but don't come on too strong with the religion in government. Try latching on to extremists in Algeria if you'd rather champion a holy war. God's Spear (begun in Al Khals in southern Africa and spread to Algeria after government crack-downs) is at the forefront of blowing things up and giving Muslims a bad name, in case you care.

Hmmmmmm...does my country have to have its RL population? If so, I would prefer somewhere with a lot of people that hasn't been claimed yet.

Oh, yes, roughly. We can discuss minor alterations, but basically we go by the guidlines of reality.

You don't have to claim one real country exactly. BG is a nation made up of part of India and all of Sri Lanka. You could claim southern Mexico and the west coast of Guatemala and make it a country with a population we'd work out by trawling a few websites, or the south island of New Zealand, or Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, and Azerbaijan, for example.

Hajjiyah>> While not a major power in the strictest sense of the word, the African Commonwealth holds a great deal of temporal power from their all-consuming commercial and defense sectors, and while it's not a muslim nation at all it has no compunctions about supporting arab nations in any number of covert or overt ways! Just FYI ;)

Hajiya, it really depends on your government style. Is it democratic, and does it allow freedom of speech/freedom of worship? I may support such a nation, considering Africa and the Middle East seem to be nothing but imperialist pawns and corrupt dictatorships...

May I take these territories? I think that adding Mauritania and the Canary Islands boosts my population up to a more capable level.

Western Sahara
Mauritania
Canary Islands

My government isn't democratic, and although it allows dissenters, it tends not to allow a lot of criticism. There is theoretical freedom of religion, although Moslems make up the entire government and dominate the country. Islamic fundamentalism isn't encouraged publicly, but secretly it is supported.

I have one further question: may I change the economic level of my country? I would prefer that I had a beter economy and military than those nations actually do...

I think in general terms the AMW economy is more than a little better than RL, large parts of africa are on the road to some sort of recovery and the Asian economy is booming.

As to your claims i'm not sure about Mauritania as my limited geography fails me but i could see the canaries being a problem because as far as i'm aware the population are quiet staunchly Spanish and the likely hood of Spain giving them up is about equal with the Uk giving up gilbraltar...

If you choose to coem into the African theater the Strathdonia would likely be freindly. Not a freind per say but we wouldn't bomb you even if we did have any sort of strategic reach. Also we tend to be freinds with msot people who aren't Catholic French Monarcies. We would likely to give you support if you choose to operate agaisnt french interests in Algeria, not that that support would be much beyond maybe a fighter squadron, a few cut prince surveilance planes and all the rifles chambered for stupidly over power rounds you could desire.

On a side note, i have pointed out that Strathdonia is the result of Scottish business men sticking thier noses into Malawi's dirt poor business, well geuss what i found in the paper the other day? yep an organisation of leading scottish business men meddling in Malawi. Now all i need is complete break down of govenrment control and a UN force to go in lead by a scottish battalion...

I thought we were using our NS factsheets to decide economies...for example, I've been keeping NY at around 'Imploded' to simulate the developing nation which only really formed together in the Seventies. As for population, this isn't a game of Risk(though the Imperialists rp similarly...). I started with a small developing nation...fifteen million comrades struggling to uphold and further their revolution.

Oh, and just to introduce NY, its a nation on the imaginary Lyong peninsula north of Korea. We probably won't be much in contact, but I hope you have fun in AMW Hajjiyah.

Well, Hajiya, it looks like Russia won't be your sugar daddy, so to speak. Fundamentalism and dictatorship are two things I won't support.

Well from the NS factsheets Strathdonia be out perfroming msot of the real world.

I generally tend to take the NS stats as more localised refelctions ie in Africa a frightening economy isn't that spectactular on a world scale (probabaly means that you don't owe the world bank half your GDP in loan repayments each year and can feed your entire population decently while still managign to export a fair bit of trade).

OK...for my country, how does Western Sahara, Mauritania,Senegal, and the Gambia sound for a nation, with a per-capita GDP around $12,000 dollars?

I should probably interject at this point to share a few things about Roycelandia's past.

Roycelandia is probably the foremost of the Imperialists in NationStates, and at one point had a VERY large Empire, much of it dismantled in the period 1947-1981 (from a combination of economic necessity, public opinion, and, in some cases, successful Guerrilla warfare/revolution). It's only been during the reign of Royce I (1985- ) that a serious attempt at reclaiming parts of the Empire has been made, with a surprising amount of success.

I've never really made a specific list of places that used to be part of the Roycelandian Empire, but there are a few that definitely were:


Lusaka (Part of Roycelandian East Africa, independent 1981 after a long and bloody revolution)
The Gambia (Independent 1978, peacefully and amicably)
Port Arthur (China, captured by the Japanese in 1941 and consequently returned to China in 1945)
Roycelandian Somaliland (North-Eastern Somalia, Independent 1967 after the whole area degenerated into Civil War and famine)
Bismarck Archipelago (Papua New Guinea, captured by the Japanese in 1941, recaptured by Australian/NZ forces in 1945, ceded to Australia in 1947)
Yemen (Roycelandian for about 10 years in the 19th century. We retained Socotra, however.)

I've also made reference to Roycelandian Indochina, and it's almost certain we had colonies in Malaysia at some point too...

I'm still interested in role playing with this community since it looks interesting enough. And Armandian Cheese asked me if I was going to continue with my thread. So, I would like to, however, I don't want to write up my civil war, and then be told I can't role play anymore.

Again, as I've repeated time and time again, I'm willing to not use SCRAMjet (instead use RAMjet), change the ETC for 120mm Smoothbore, change the rail gun (I don't really use rail guns anyways) to regular guns, et cetera. And again, if I was playing against a nation which used Abrams I would take casualties, perhaps many, depending on how he role plays the attack, however, you need to understand that I need to create an impression of 'super weapons' for my civil war, which is why I destroy rediculous amounts of armor.

But anways, let's not get on the wrong foot once again. What's the news?

Hmmm...Would it solve all problems by giving the Socialist Spanish government old, Russian tanks, instead of new, American tech? It'll make people a lot less uneasy, and will make perfect sense. By the way, I noticed that you put a tremendous amount of research and details into your weaponry...That makes me a little uneasy. I have some of my own tech, but none if it is as exhaustively researched as yours. I hope you don't demand everyone else puts as much research into designs of tech (I give basic, realistic outlines), since not all of us are experts. Just a note. I don't want to get lost in a stream of tech babble, after all.

Well, I'm using the real life Spanish army. And the case I give is a bit extreme. After all, no sane commander would waste armor as how I depicted. However, I'm creating a vision that the Socialist government was, to put simply, insane, with insane military commanders. I'm going to use this to put the people behind Catalan, and thus the rise of Catalan. The Spanish Civil War (or, I guess, the Second Spanish Civil War) is more of a coup, and is not meant to last long. I plan to go deep into economics however, and perhaps a little bit of war, at least for now.

As for technology, the Russians can supply the Socialist, it wouldn't matter to me. But I do have a set ending to it, as you can already deduct. In any case, I don't expect others to put humongous amounts of research into their products, I do so by default, but I won't be an ass about it. However, I will defend myself on my technology if I have to.

No, the Russians have no intention of funding socialists, that's for sure. But they could have Cold War tech lying around. And I'm saying that the main problem with your RP is how a private individual could build tanks and jets without anyone noticing. A plausible explanation is that he did it in Russia, before Putin was elected, and when it was still caught in the Post-Soviet corruption era.

I could do that. But I don't want to lose what I already wrote. However, I think I have an idea on how to link it with your explanation, in character.

Then go ahead.

Am I in this? The factbook says I'm Germany, yet I've not recieved confirmation of this- so, could someone help me clear this up? Thanks.

Then go ahead.

Alright, I wrote up the next installation of the Spanish saga, although it's considerably shorter than the other posts I had up. But, it should do.

Am I in this? The factbook says I'm Germany, yet I've not recieved confirmation of this- so, could someone help me clear this up? Thanks.
I believe you already received two confirmations, so yes. Why not start an introductory RP?

Referring to all members of AMW, but specifically Macabees and Sevaris: It helps if you join the region "A Modern World", since most of the new events are announced there.

I believe you already received two confirmations, so yes. Why not start an introductory RP?

Referring to all members of AMW, but specifically Macabees and Sevaris: It helps if you join the region "A Modern World", since most of the new events are announced there.

alright, that's cool- but I later reapplied as South Africa, thinking that I had lost my bid for Germany- is that still valid, or what's going on?

I think a powerful South Africa lead a few members of the African region (which predates AMW) to be uneasy, and they never really decided. It's your choice, really, but you'll have to consult with some of the African nations (Roycelandia, Lusaka, African Commonwealth, Strathdonia) if you are going with SA.

OOC: d'you have AIM?

That's cool, I'll ask them- np

OOC: Yeah, I do. It's "jabberwockybacon". Why? So, you're going for South Africa, not Germany?

I should like to go for South Africa, primarily because that's one of the countries I like to learn about in history, and I feel it has great potential as a nation. Perhaps it can be realised in AMW.

I would very much like to have a puppet here in AMW. Neo-Anarchos is way old, and only recently did I have it revived.

The main concept is that the nations inhabitants have the one thing in common that they're all anti-authoritarian socialists(that is, anarchist or libertarian in their views). While not very likely to agree on important matters, a decently well-functioning soviet-like "government" is in place, managing for example important commercial, defensive and educational questions in a federalist manner.

I have always played it as a huge, predominantly hispanic continent swimming around somewhere(NS population is now over 2 billion), but in the context of AMW it would ideally be somewhere in Southern America or the Spanish mainland(inspiration for the nation are the anarchist communes of the Spanish civil war and the whole enchilada has a pretty strong Spanish feel to it), and likely also bits and pieces of other nations with a socialist bent, provided the lands would recognize the autonomy of anarcho-syndicalist exclaves wanting to join Neo-Anarchos.

Of course, a fulfilling intro RP and factbook would be written up if you all are cool with it.

If by Spanish mainland you mean Spain, too late :p

The main concept is that the nations inhabitants have the one thing in common that they're all anti-authoritarian socialists(that is, anarchist or libertarian in their views). While not very likely to agree on important matters, a decently well-functioning soviet-like "government" is in place, managing for example important commercial, defensive and educational questions in a federalist manner...

*snip*

...it would ideally be somewhere in Southern America

Actually, in a rather convenient coincidence, AMWs existing true-soviet power, Beth Gellert (in India-Shri Lanka), has maintained ties with an NPC Venezuela. Your approaches to socialism sound similar, so fitting a nation such as the one you describe into a South American context seems perfectly feasible.

Currently Peru exists as a newly fascistic state, and French Guiyana remains a French holding, under a restored absolute monarchy.

There were also inquiries by other players into establishing states in Mexico and Argentina-Uruguay-Chile, though I dont think either applicant has shown continued interest in some time.

Just post a proposal as to the specific country/ies you're interested in making a part of your state, and an outline of structure, and await comment/approval!

Spyr, do my claims include the Balearic and Canary Islands? As well as Ceuta and Melilla in Morocco?

I'm not absolutely certain, but I'm pretty sure that the Balearics are considered part of Spain proper. Its possible that one of the disparate nations (Roycelandia or United Elias) claimed something out of the Canaries, but I would generally say that anything there not contradicting an existing claim is Spanish as well.

Morocco is a different matter, as I must profess ignorance of curent AMW politics in that area. But, unless someone knows reason otherwise, those two would seem to fit into the Spanish claim.

(though it would be worth noting that, along with those claims ought to come the RL disputes with NPC Morocco... disagreement with Spain over the dividing line between Morocco and the Canaries due to desire by both states to harvest offshore resources, and Moroccan demands that Spain return its last African continental holdings to Morocco).

I've talked to BG, and he seems to agree with Venezuela being a prime target. While his nation is influencing Venezuela, it also has overriding sympathy for Neo-Anarchan views and NA's views could probably usurp the country without him "sending in the marines" ;)

I'd like a bigger sphere of anarchism though, and it is my observation that other latin american countries could probably also be "converted" in this fashion. As I understand it, the other Southern American nations apart from those you list as taken(Cuba and Peru!?), I could do with some of the neighbouring nation. I'll do some research on the political climate there and hit you back.

Later!

You're going to meet heavy opposition in the form of Peruvian fascists, Russian Mafiosi, and French monarchists.

And Spanish imperialist...well, maybe not them.

Planning something in South America, are we? Well, if Catalan manages to marry into a monarchist family, he could ally himself with the Holy League...

Remember, you're confined to RL populations, not neccessarily RL history. It is perfectly valid to have the past differ from reality... perhaps in earlier years local economic troubles finally catapulted to the forefront an anarcho-socialist movement that swept across Venezuela, spilling over and taking in Colombia-Guyana as well. (Panama's a bit different. While not claimed, exactly, Quinntonia has a vested interest in it, so if you thought of incorporating countries above Venezuela, you might have to work out a bit of backstory with the American Christians).

Planning something in South America, are we? Well, if Catalan manages to marry into a monarchist family, he could ally himself with the Holy League...

Well, I'm not really aquainted with the alliances here, or groups, and what nations are in it. It's all very confusing for a nation like me, who came in late. I'm not too sure about the Holy League - they seem pretty conceited and might actually work to constrict any European expansion I might have in mind.

As for South America, I'm not planning much, perhaps nothing. But it might change as things unfold.

Yes, I'm very open about OOC matters.

Spyr>> Very good, I tend to forget that. If South Americas past had gone differently, or libertarian socialist sentiment had been stronger other places than the zapatista communes; things could have easily gone different.

So... Venezuela, Guyana, Columbia and Suriname? Perhaps Ecuador as well. Does that fit, or has these nations been gobbled up by the authoritarian devils around me? ;)

Well, the Peruvians have their eyes on Ecuador, so there's potential conflict if you take it; then again, I'd imagine that your communes wouldn't be regarded as friends even if you don't take Ecuador ;)

That would be roughly a population of 81 million (?).

A seemingly acceptable bid, to which I'll cast a vote for approval.

I still think Peru and Spain should create a bloc together. :)

Also, do we role play the resistance if we invade a non-player country? Or does someone else role play the resistance?

Sevaris: The primary limitation on South Africa is its interaction with the members of the SSA region. This means, primarily, that up until the point you take control of the nation (the present, in AMW terms), SA needs to have followed its RL economic and political tendencies, and been generally passive in African politics. So, if you want to roleplay SA, I'd reccomend whatever shift you plan to happen as your introductory RP, and for the first little while you should roleplay a state in transition. This will give the SSA nations a chance to adjust to a potentially different South Africa, and stick their fingers a little bit into the pie of its development, so to speak, so that a new, more active nation doesnt just materialize on their doorstep.

Also, do we role play the resistance if we invade a non-player country? Or does someone else role play the resistance?

It can go either way, really. A neutral party would tend, I think, to best eliminate the possibility of violence, but if you RP well it may not matter. The concern is RPs such as:

My army attacks Pathetica and destroys their border guards.

My army marches into Pathetica's capital and they surrender.

The Patheticans love my army and 95% vote to join Invadany as a vassal province. All resistance ends.

If an invasion seems too biased, the thread may just degenerate into OOC bickering, which is never a good thing.

I'll also back Neo-Anarchos bid, as he appears to be a seasoned RPer. Though we would like to see some sort of intro RP thread to the new nation...if only to let AMW choose whether to aid or condemn the new nation. Remember NA, your imagination and ability to run a NS account are your only limitations...AMW sometimes has basically no relationship to RL.

As for Macabees question on Alliances...you'll find that the Imperialists of the Holy League(Tsarist Ukraine/parts of Russia, France, Italy...perhaps Japan) are allied with international conservatives like General Massad and Royce. There exists now a great many Islamic nations, who have yet to form a union or alliance. The Shining Sphere of Revolutionary Co-prosperity(just call it the SSRC) lost its largest member with the collapse of Marimaia, and now includes Drapoel(North Korea - Hamhung area + Seoul area), Spyr and NY. Beth Gellert and Hindustan are strongly allied with these North Asian socialists. Other allies of the socialist cause includes NPC Sujava and Tord, the third Lyong Treaty member. NATO has no where near the power of RL, including Quinntonia, Russia and Great Britian(correct me if I'm wrong on this one). Oh, and China is basically united under the vast military power of the Sinoese.

When did Sino take over China? Did Xiagou just surrender? I was an active reader of a General's Dream, but I missed that part I guess.

Sino is militarily dominant over the other Chinas... im a bit muddled about it myself, but it seems like Xiaguo is trying to surrender and establish a new, closer union, possibly with the OOC expectation that he will thus keep his nation. Sino has yet to respond to his initiatives, and I'm unclear as to wether he will pursue the matter until all of mainland China is directly part of Sino.

A correction on membership: the SSRC includes Hindustan, and Sujava is an active nation, though under a pacifist constitution.

Actually, NATO includes Great Britain, Roycelandia, Quinntonia, and Hudecia. I'm not in it. Yet. And while it is not as powerful as in RL, in theory it could be. It's just that Hudecia and GB are inactive, and Royce and Quinn rarely cooperate.

Blah! I am an Empire, not a fascist state!

OOC: Hello. I'm slightly confused as of now, are you accepting new people now or aren't you? I've been looking to try my skills with you guys (This is a new country, I have decent experience. I had to stop this last year because of school but I'm back). If so, how about that Ireland?

A slow and muddled accepting process is ongoing, yes ^_^.

Perhaps you coul give a summary of your plan for Ireland?

Someone wants to play Eire? Well, I hope you do the Emerald Isle justice Caealan.

Spyr/North Yaman>>

I'll also back Neo-Anarchos bid, as he appears to be a seasoned RPer. Though we would like to see some sort of intro RP thread to the new nation...if only to let AMW choose whether to aid or condemn the new nation. Remember NA, your imagination and ability to run a NS account are your only limitations...AMW sometimes has basically no relationship to RL.

In the interest of honesty, I must mention that I am Tias; the player of African Commonwealth. That is why I seem seasoned(I've roleplayed since I was a fetus), and have a good grasp of AMW events. I was reluctant to ask for a second nation because I'd rather not take up a spot from a fresh player who could bring 'fresh blood' to AMW so to speak. I did actually think I mentioned this somewhere, but I have probably forgotten it or you may have missed it.

However, RP outside AMW is getting steadily shabbier for nations like this one - the nazis go "WTF-u-commie-I-kill-u", and the stalinists go "WTF-u-anarchist-I-kill-u". Credit where credit is due, many decent players remain, but I'd still like to transfer NA to a setting where it carries greater legitimacy and less chance of OVERT destruction :cool:

Also, this nation is about as radically different from my other MW nation as it can get, and I think the flavour a syndicalist nation can bring to the playing table is too good to pass up(even if it is short-lived ;)).

Regards,
Tias.

Actually, NATO includes Great Britain, Roycelandia, Quinntonia, and Hudecia. I'm not in it. Yet. And while it is not as powerful as in RL, in theory it could be. It's just that Hudecia and GB are inactive, and Royce and Quinn rarely cooperate.

I should also point out that France and Great Britain don't like each other very much in RL, yet they're both in the RL NATO.

Oh, and Roycelandia controls the world's Bacardi Rum supplies too- so just remember that the next time one of your Governments serves a Cuba Libre at a Diplomatic Function... :D

Could more people please use the AMW forum? I know you think it is unnecessary what with the NS forums and all, but it would rock if we could at least have maps, factbooks and news threads for every MW nation on there for reference. It would save us the world in time when planning RPs here, and serve as a handy hang-out spot and RP platform when NS forums are down(as they are notoriously prone to).

I second the motion!

While I'd be the last to encourage roleplaying on an offsite forum, the new forum would seem an incredibly good place to post general information about our nations, characters, militaries, etc. in an AMW cotext, so that the data could be easily referenced by other AMW players.

I'm glad! What do you think about me joining with Neo-Anarchos, though?

I'd say its perfectly acceptable, as long as the states you roleplay are played as independant entities, and not as puppets or an excuse to bolster a specific political grouping. There are several other players who hold multiple AMW accounts.

Really?

Well, the only thing even related to bolstering my two nations would then have, is Neo-Anarchos 'bolstering' AC's resolve to wipe NA off the face of the planet, so no potential harm, there.

So what do the rest of you think? Is Neo-Anarchos cool or... spool(is that even a word in english?).

/Tias

I say yea. To say no would be hippocracy of the highest order.

I don't really know how to spell that.

But yes anyway.

Sorry about that. I'll repost it in the forums.

Thanks Macabees.

1. You should probably put any IC posts in a new thread.
2. The forums are here (http://s9.invisionfree.com/NS_Modern_World/).

I have one further question: may I change the economic level of my country? I would prefer that I had a beter economy and military than those nations actually do...

Well, the oil resources are there, I'm sure you could happily give your economy a boom by selling oil to China...

I should also point out that France and Great Britain don't like each other very much in RL, yet they're both in the RL NATO.

Oh, and Roycelandia controls the world's Bacardi Rum supplies too- so just remember that the next time one of your Governments serves a Cuba Libre at a Diplomatic Function... :D
So...Royce, what do you think about my proposal? Of you taking over Britain?

OOC: Hey everybody, I'm back, what did I miss, anything major?

I'll update the front page, shortly.

Neo-Anarchos is in, then... but what holdings, exactly?

And what Indian states represent the final configuration of Hindustan?

And Hajiyah is... in? Somewhere across west Africa?

Is there agreement on Caealan as Ireland? (I assume that's just the ROI, since though TBF is to depart, it established a trend to devolution within the UK that would only make it harder for Republicans to make anyone in NI care about their cause)

Just want to make sure we've got solid ideas on these things before I commit them to the front page.

Dra-pol>> Hey my man, what's shaking?

Neo-Anarchos, then, holds the territories of Columbia, Guyana, Suriname and Venezuela. I would like it if NA could perhaps hold just -part- of Equador, likely on the northeastern side bordering the rest of the country. This would signify a host of villages(or, if you'll allow it, ALL of Equador) converting to syndicalism and joining the rest of the country, laying the ground for some interesting conflict with Peru who fancies controlling the country, if I am not mistaken.

OOC: Erm...Well, I'd have to raise an issue with Columbia. If NA wants to have an anarchist movement rise up now, sure, but retroactively I and Grande Peru have been RPing heavy interests, since we both run criminal rings. And obviously, crime doesn't really work out in a communist-like system, so...

Ah, and Dra-Pol. My holdings now include Nigeria (the Russian Mafia) and Kazakhstan (conquest). Of course, those are both uncertain, I might lose them, but I'm mainly in control right now.

OOC: The forum is great. I'm used to proboards :headbang: .

So, what do we do on the NS forum? Pretty much everything is covered on the other one, and Macabees said not to post IC stuff on here. So what DO I post?

OOC: That AMW forum is just meant to be a factbook, events, and planning thread. The actual RPs take place on II. Why don't you start an introductory RP?

Armandian Cheese>> Neo-Anarchos' form of government can hardly be described as a "communist-like system". Anarchism, while also a socialist ideology, has little to do with communism in many respects(mainly the particular respect that it abolishes authority in government as much as possible).

Crime exists in all layers of human interaction, and could also feasibly infest an anarcho-syndicalist nation, or at least many parts of it. Do you have an issue with all of Columbia being Neo-Anarchan, then? If so, cool, but do elaborate!

Could you possibly slip me the link to AC and GP's meddlings in Columbia, by the way? That'd be great..

Hmmn, I have an idea...perhaps I should takeover the UK? RPing the UAE, which is not exactly full time, is a little below my RP ambitions, and with shall, we say...an intimate knowledge of United Kingdom politics, I feel I could be a credible manager of it. I do not intend any major reversals, but would strive to RP Britain realistically, trying carefully to maintain balances of power, in a traditional British way, but nevertheless aiming for advancement. The UK cannot match UE for resources, Quintonnia for military power or Roycelandia for Empire, but I will also not allow it to slip totally into oblivion on the 'ash heap of history'.

Armandian Cheese>> Neo-Anarchos' form of government can hardly be described as a "communist-like system". Anarchism, while also a socialist ideology, has little to do with communism in many respects(mainly the particular respect that it abolishes authority in government as much as possible).

Crime exists in all layers of human interaction, and could also feasibly infest an anarcho-syndicalist nation, or at least many parts of it. Do you have an issue with all of Columbia being Neo-Anarchan, then? If so, cool, but do elaborate!

Could you possibly slip me the link to AC and GP's meddlings in Columbia, by the way? That'd be great..
Well, I assumed that they were going alongst a Communist route, since he/she/it said that they were basically identical in form to BG. I don't mind the Neo-Anarchan's taking over Columbia, but would like for them to go from the current point in time, instead of a retro-active "it's already been that way or years" thing, as GP, LRR, and I have been meddling there heavily. I'm mainly concerned with the drug trade, as I have little doubt that an anarchist nation would fully legalize drugs, thus butchering one of the mafiya's best sources for cocaine. I'll find the link soon, but you can search for it. It's called "You Only Rule Twice", and using the keyword "chiisu" should narrow it down.

Hmmn, I have an idea...perhaps I should takeover the UK? RPing the UAE, which is not exactly full time, is a little below my RP ambitions, and with shall, we say...an intimate knowledge of United Kingdom politics, I feel I could be a credible manager of it. I do not intend any major reversals, but would strive to RP Britain realistically, trying carefully to maintain balances of power, in a traditional British way, but nevertheless aiming for advancement. The UK cannot match UE for resources, Quintonnia for military power or Roycelandia for Empire, but I will also not allow it to slip totally into oblivion on the 'ash heap of history'.
Sure, that sounds good. So would you continue the American-British "special relationship"?

I'll update the front page, shortly.

Neo-Anarchos is in, then... but what holdings, exactly?

And what Indian states represent the final configuration of Hindustan?

And Hajiyah is... in? Somewhere across west Africa?

Is there agreement on Caealan as Ireland? (I assume that's just the ROI, since though TBF is to depart, it established a trend to devolution within the UK that would only make it harder for Republicans to make anyone in NI care about their cause)

Just want to make sure we've got solid ideas on these things before I commit them to the front page.

Hi Dra-pol! What's been going on? Hey, perhaps you could try another stab at unification? That would shake things up a good amount...or mabye involve yourself with certain African revolutionary movements. coughcoughcoughmozambiquecoughcoughcough.

My final geographical layout is as follows:

Pakistan
Gujarat
Madhya Pradesh
Matharasthra

It makes sort of a U-shape.

As for colombia, I've been more or less Rping many aspects of the country so Neo-Anarchos can take control whenever he wants. I think old Hindustan might turn its attention to funding various programs in central asia. Just imagine all those Northern Alliance fighters riding around in Saladins and Saracens instead of BTRs...

Trucial, I'd support your claim to England. Such a power should really be represented. I've got a few problems, though. First of all, I was in the middle of a rather significant deal with TBF to buy off a good deal of his Tornado and Harrier fleet, and secondly had a lot of his navy earmarked for purchase. I am curious as to what I should do here. Perhaps the aircraft deal should be proceeded with but the ships left for later?

Nobodies got Scotland, correct?

TBF consisted of Great Britain as it is in RL, minus a few island holdings. That includes Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Trucial: I'm all for you taking up the British role. TBF had also been RPing along generally RL lines, though his Labour had been heading towards its more socialist roots. TBF ad Spyr had been developing mutual trade, and due to animosity with the French and suspicion about Quinntonian actions that seemed overly cooperative with feudalists, we had several other common intrests. Thus, I'm rather sad to see him go.... but the situation is ripe for a player transition. Perhaps an electoral change of government from John Bull's Labour as was in charge in TBF to your own cast of characters and policies? (such would allow preservation of past British RP intact, while keeping its future course open to you).

Hey. I'm still around just for now, but prepared to hand over TBF, if TCS wants to use it.

I think that what Spyr's told you is about right, over all.
PM John Bull formed the British Industrial Democratic (BID) Party some years ago when it became clear that the voters faced a choice between Thatcher-influenced Tories on one side, and, uhm, New Labour supposedly on the other. BID got in there years before wishy-washy parties like RESPECT, which nobody can see winning anything, and promised to uphold Labour's traditional values while re-vitalising national pride and all that rubbish that won them just enough votes from all the other parties for the party's first general election to be, well, a landslide victory.

Bull then nationalised most of Britain's iconic manufacturing companies, often taking them back from foreign ownership, and later began to slowly sell them off again into British hands, usually with a significant government stake intact. He also bumped-up military spending (and taxes, but quality of life improved for more people than it declined for, and BID's radicalism inspired new voters to come forward, too) and pledged to stand for democracy in a Europe increasingly falling to feudal dictators.

This entailed much local devolution of power, largely in a further attempt to reach apathetic subjects most likely to vote BID, and this was sufficient to prevent a Tory recovery in the second term. However, the economy was down slightly due to loss of trade with France and the radical nature of reforms, so the Tories did gain a little ground against Bull's majority in Parliament.

So, today, Britain stands with a fat man in a Union Flag vest as PM for a decade, with another general election looming and his left-nationalist platform beginning to run out of steam.

The UK was stuck, internationally, between absolutely needing to keep United Elias on side, working with religious Quinntonia and imperialist Roycelandia in NATO, and yet finding the SSRC to be relatively natural allies and the Holy League equally natural enemies.

Some over-seas territories of the UK are jointly owned or leased by United Elias, but he can fill you in on that, and others have been increasingly militarised thanks to the Holy League threat. British bases on Cyprus have fighter squadrons again, Gibraltar's facilities have been expanded (including more land reclamation at a cost of several hundred million pounds) and the garrision there prepared to meet invasion by land, sea, and air with the strength of a full regiment plus long-term RN deployments. I think that Spain's doing something drastic around there, but I haven't read properly, as I've not been around. Spain should recognise, though, that meddling with Bull's Gibraltar would be best done only by a nation prepared to go to war with another that's been making ready for total war since Louis took the French throne.

So, yeah, Bull can either be taken over by you (just think of all the English stereotypes rolled into one bitter-swilling, beef-eating, bad-tempered socialist), or you can have him lose the next general election and set to pulling-apart his legacy :)
Oh, he didn't touch the monarchy, by the by.
If you take the UK, I'll update you on what Bull did to the military (and you can keep it for financial reasons or do away with it because it may arguably not make much sense! (coughbattleshipcough)).

Armandian Cheese>>

Well, I assumed that they were going alongst a Communist route, since he/she/it said that they were basically identical in form to BG. I don't mind the Neo-Anarchan's taking over Columbia, but would like for them to go from the current point in time, instead of a retro-active "it's already been that way or years" thing, as GP, LRR, and I have been meddling there heavily. I'm mainly concerned with the drug trade, as I have little doubt that an anarchist nation would fully legalize drugs, thus butchering one of the mafiya's best sources for cocaine. I'll find the link soon, but you can search for it. It's called "You Only Rule Twice", and using the keyword "chiisu" should narrow it down.

"Communist route" can be many things, from the twisted perception of communist doctrine to institute opression to pure libertarian socialism. Neo-Anarchos is a federalist republic, almost like the USA in theory, but nowhere near it in practice. It a system of councils(what Beth Gellert calls "soviets"), but unlike the communist nations, there is almost no authority in government -whatsoever-. This means that the commune, rather than the family, is the basic unit of Neo-Anarchan society, and then villagers gather to democratically run their village, villages gather in regions to run their territory, territories gather to run the country at large. The best IRL counterpart would be large parts of republican Spain during the spanish civil war, where anarchist labour unions such as CNT and FAI had millions of members.

Anarchist drug policy(if there can exist such a thing), holds that you can do what you want with your body unless it leads to you harming other people(not society at large, if you're unproductive thanks to the needle in your arm, you simply get ostracized from the capital produced). This means that all manufacture, sale and use of drugs are perfectly legal in Neo-Anarchos, and "smart shops" selling a variety of, primarily psychodelic, drugs are popping up over the nation. However, the manufacture and use of addictive, hard drugs like cocaine, opium and heroine are frowned upon, and strongly discouraged by government consensus.

Here are my thoughts: Venezuela has been anarchist for a while, as anarcho-syndicalist sentiment took over the populace when it became clear that Hugo Chavez was simply another opressor with a different coloured flag. The same if probably true for Guyana, whose weak authoritarian government fell after the former USA(or Quinntonia) backed out of supporting them, and revolution was a fact. I'll read up on the situation in Columbia and then prepare a post in that thread dealing with Neo-Anarchan influence and subsequent take-over based on the RPs that have already taken place in the region. Cool?

The Igovian Soviet Commonwealth takes an increasingly dim view of revisionists, which means that a liberation of the left in Latin America will be keenly supported as a great relief. Until now, the Commonwealth has been restricted to grudging trade with Venezuala, Libya, Vietnam, Dra-pol, Laos, and a little more keenly with the Lyong nations and Hindustan, as well as on-off trade with Lusaka and to a limited degree with Lavrageria and formerly the UK.

The liberation of Venezuala et al will require Igovians to drop their support for Chavez, and that will force them to confront the issue of trade with and support for communist revisionists and social democrats around the world. To admit that Chavez's government wasn't really revolutionary will mean admitting the same of many others, but there's no question of opposing communistic revolutionary progress by the Neo-Anarchos, so it'll happen.

There's a good chance that this will actually not be good for the Igovian economy :/

Over all, by the way, it sounds as if the N-A society has a lot of similarity with the ISCBG, which has a government of and by the people, not for the people, and is organised into over a hundred thousand communes.

Hey. I'm still around just for now, but prepared to hand over TBF, if TCS wants to use it.

I think that what Spyr's told you is about right, over all.
PM John Bull formed the British Industrial Democratic (BID) Party some years ago when it became clear that the voters faced a choice between Thatcher-influenced Tories on one side, and, uhm, New Labour supposedly on the other. BID got in there years before wishy-washy parties like RESPECT, which nobody can see winning anything, and promised to uphold Labour's traditional values while re-vitalising national pride and all that rubbish that won them just enough votes from all the other parties for the party's first general election to be, well, a landslide victory.

Bull then nationalised most of Britain's iconic manufacturing companies, often taking them back from foreign ownership, and later began to slowly sell them off again into British hands, usually with a significant government stake intact. He also bumped-up military spending (and taxes, but quality of life improved for more people than it declined for, and BID's radicalism inspired new voters to come forward, too) and pledged to stand for democracy in a Europe increasingly falling to feudal dictators.

This entailed much local devolution of power, largely in a further attempt to reach apathetic subjects most likely to vote BID, and this was sufficient to prevent a Tory recovery in the second term. However, the economy was down slightly due to loss of trade with France and the radical nature of reforms, so the Tories did gain a little ground against Bull's majority in Parliament.

So, today, Britain stands with a fat man in a Union Flag vest as PM for a decade, with another general election looming and his left-nationalist platform beginning to run out of steam.

The UK was stuck, internationally, between absolutely needing to keep United Elias on side, working with religious Quinntonia and imperialist Roycelandia in NATO, and yet finding the SSRC to be relatively natural allies and the Holy League equally natural enemies.

Some over-seas territories of the UK are jointly owned or leased by United Elias, but he can fill you in on that, and others have been increasingly militarised thanks to the Holy League threat. British bases on Cyprus have fighter squadrons again, Gibraltar's facilities have been expanded (including more land reclamation at a cost of several hundred million pounds) and the garrision there prepared to meet invasion by land, sea, and air with the strength of a full regiment plus long-term RN deployments. I think that Spain's doing something drastic around there, but I haven't read properly, as I've not been around. Spain should recognise, though, that meddling with Bull's Gibraltar would be best done only by a nation prepared to go to war with another that's been making ready for total war since Louis took the French throne.

So, yeah, Bull can either be taken over by you (just think of all the English stereotypes rolled into one bitter-swilling, beef-eating, bad-tempered socialist), or you can have him lose the next general election and set to pulling-apart his legacy :)
Oh, he didn't touch the monarchy, by the by.
If you take the UK, I'll update you on what Bull did to the military (and you can keep it for financial reasons or do away with it because it may arguably not make much sense! (coughbattleshipcough)).

Thank you for your endorsement, and I have sent you a TG with several questions but I have a couple more to add: What exactly is the political climate as far as the Left wing parties i.e do the Lib Dems and Labour still exist or have they been squeezed out by BID? Also, when you say devolution, does that mean Scotland, Wales and NI have more self-determination or does it mean more power devolved to local government like city and county councils?

As far as my aims for the UK, I think I would have the Tories win an overall majority, but not a very large one, and a return to a fairly traditional Conservative Government, which will for the most part focus initially on domestic reforms to energise the economy. Most existing treaties or previously agreed arms deals will be left, although will be reviewed by the new PM (TBF can possibly tell me what they all are).

YES! Score one for conservative democracy! (High fives.) Churchill, Thatcher, ahh...The good ol' days. I have the feeling that this is the start of a beautiful friendship between our two nations...

Trucial, I believe I bought around 90 Tornado GR4s and 60 or so Tornado FRS1s, as well as around 90 Harrier variants.

However, I might look into buying off UE's MiG-29As instead. More aircraft for a lower projected cost. And there's nothing that a quick upgrade can't fix. I would buy Sukhoi designs, but I wouldn't imagine that Hindustan has the best relationship with Russian firms, considering that most Russian equipment used by Hindustan was either recieved from Israel or the former Warsaw Pact, and offers for upgrade packages have been categorically denied.

Perhaps I'll even look to Beth Gellert or Quinntonia. The more I think on it, the more I regred ever getting rid of those Mirage 2000s. But Pakistan RL does have some F-16s. Perhaps I could RP having those...the Viggen is a good aircraft, reliable and sturdy, but could use replacement. Preferably twin-engined replacement with better rearward visibility.

As a stopgap measure, I think I'll go ahead with the SAf. Jaguar, a fighter version of the Jaguar. This will replace the Viggen fleet and tide over some of the heavy fighter squadrons while the SAf. 6s are converted to SAa. 6s and a new type is found.

You can buy from me :(

Trucial, I believe I bought around 90 Tornado GR4s and 60 or so Tornado FRS1s, as well as around 90 Harrier variants.

However, I might look into buying off UE's MiG-29As instead. More aircraft for a lower projected cost. And there's nothing that a quick upgrade can't fix. I would buy Sukhoi designs, but I wouldn't imagine that Hindustan has the best relationship with Russian firms, considering that most Russian equipment used by Hindustan was either recieved from Israel or the former Warsaw Pact, and offers for upgrade packages have been categorically denied.

Perhaps I'll even look to Beth Gellert or Quinntonia. The more I think on it, the more I regred ever getting rid of those Mirage 2000s. But Pakistan RL does have some F-16s. Perhaps I could RP having those...the Viggen is a good aircraft, reliable and sturdy, but could use replacement. Preferably twin-engined replacement with better rearward visibility.

As a stopgap measure, I think I'll go ahead with the SAf. Jaguar, a fighter version of the Jaguar. This will replace the Viggen fleet and tide over some of the heavy fighter squadrons while the SAf. 6s are converted to SAa. 6s and a new type is found.
"Categorically denied?" Since when? My friend, Russia is like a candy store when it comes to weapons! Buy, buy, buy, at low, low, LOW prices!

It's a shame that BG hasn't more surplus to sell off, but the revolutions put paid to that idea. The Principality had Israeli, French, British, and other western equipment, but much of it it was trashed in the first Igovian revolution. Then the early Igovians bought equipment from the USSR, and used (and lost) it trashing what was left of the capitalists' equipment.

The modern Igovians are more or less on their first generation of native equipment, and old versions have just been upgraded rather than mothballed.

Still, might be worth parading some of it around the border states :)

You don't need more ground attack aircraft, do you?

You can expect the "lessons learned" enquiry to cause the scrapping of an entire fighter type of the Chinese Air Force...interested in Q-5s or JH-7s? Or third hand Mirage 2000s and F-16As from the ROCAF?

You can expect the "lessons learned" enquiry to cause the scrapping of an entire fighter type of the Chinese Air Force...interested in Q-5s or JH-7s? Or third hand Mirage 2000s and F-16As from the ROCAF?

If you have Mirage 2000s available then Strathdonia might be interested, depending on weither we actually manage to get the funds together...

Just a thought which has popped up after another bout of using the search: member name function to try and keep up with goings-on in AMW...

Unfortunately, searching posts for 'MW' and 'AMW' suffers from both words being too short, and as the world of active states expands searching by member name becomes more limited in terms of what it is able to cover in a practical amount of time. Directly browsing about in II has the difficulty of AMW threads getting sucked down amongst all the other threads.

I've seen a few attempts to compile thread listings for AMW, but they suffer from the fact that the thread creators cant be expected to locate every other AMW rp out there, and not all people know about them and post thread links there.

Perhaps we could establish an 'official' listing, here or on the offsite forum, where members would post links to any AMW threads they decided to start?

[It would also go a long way to helping new members or prospective members get an easier look at what we do].

So Trucial states: will you still be playing the UAE in some capacity, or at least have them as a puppet? I know Al-Ahzad is a bit more quiet these days, but Al-Walouf tribesmen and Al-Suluf bedouin militia are still fighting a nice little low-intensity conflict in the deep desert. What becomes of them?

well there is the possible solution of subscribing to every AMW thread you coema cross, it takes ages to track them all down but once you have theya re easier to find using your profile.

I suppose that we should pick one of the listing threads and make it official, link it from the first page of this thread, ask that everyone contributes to it, and make sure that it's one where the creator has time and willingness to keep updating it.

Couldn't we all just put something at the start of every thread...some specific word or phrase we can look up? Like...'bodaciousworld'...mind you, thats just a suggestion.

It's a shame that BG hasn't more surplus to sell off, but the revolutions put paid to that idea. The Principality had Israeli, French, British, and other western equipment, but much of it it was trashed in the first Igovian revolution. Then the early Igovians bought equipment from the USSR, and used (and lost) it trashing what was left of the capitalists' equipment.

The modern Igovians are more or less on their first generation of native equipment, and old versions have just been upgraded rather than mothballed.

Still, might be worth parading some of it around the border states :)

You don't need more ground attack aircraft, do you?

I was actually looking to boost my anti-shipping capabilities, as I proposed the deal when it looked quite likely that the French Navy would be paraded mouth-wateringly close to Indian shores. Now, I think some interdiction aircraft would still be useful, if nothing else but to provide some defense against possible invasion through Xinjiang. Fortunately, Sino would have to attack across Mount Goodwin Austin to get to Hindustan.

As for the Jaguar...well, its biggest appeal is its ruggedness. Those big, bulky landing gear and engine cowlings that can be swung out, allowing work crews to perform maintainance on an engine without taking it out of the plane, and with minimal facilities, are all very important to Hindustani AF operations, especially in the mountainous and desert areas. I figure I could slap some conformal fuel tanks on and add a fighter radar, and voila! It would have the range and manouverability to contend, as well as a respectable weapons capacity, but I have my doubts as to if it would manage to push mach 2. But that's life.

In the SAf. 6, I figure that Hindustani Aeronautics seriously overbuilt. Its covered in armor and can carry a lot of munitions, but is not very fast. Its much more suited to be a ground attack plane than a fighter. Plus, the design dates from the late 1970s, and is more or less a copy of the Tornado.

I think, the more that I consider it, an F-16 upgrade would suit nicely although if I were to aquire UE's MiG-29As it would boost HAF numbers through the roof...

And then I'd have to face the problem of finding enough people to man the new aircraft.

As for the Jaguar...well, its biggest appeal is its ruggedness. Those big, bulky landing gear and engine cowlings that can be swung out, allowing work crews to perform maintainance on an engine without taking it out of the plane, and with minimal facilities, are all very important to Hindustani AF operations, especially in the mountainous and desert areas. I figure I could slap some conformal fuel tanks on and add a fighter radar, and voila! It would have the range and manouverability to contend, as well as a respectable weapons capacity, but I have my doubts as to if it would manage to push mach 2. But that's life.

The problem with 'slapping on' an extra fuel tank, and adding a RADAR, or an enhanced RADAR, to an airframe designed for what it already has on, is that it's going to cut down on maneuverability and velocity. I think that those two are more important than the number of weapons and range.

The problem with 'slapping on' an extra fuel tank, and adding a RADAR, or an enhanced RADAR, to an airframe designed for what it already has on, is that it's going to cut down on maneuverability and velocity. I think that those two are more important than the number of weapons and range.

If you're just trying to get me to buy Spanish planes, not in a million years. The Popular Congress plots constantly about trying to destroy Spanish imperialist urges, and it is considered highly disputable as to if Spanish designs can operate from dirt strips.

As to the Jaguar...well, it is an aircraft that has shown considerable longevity. And conformal fuel tanks are nothing new. The F-16 and F-15 have them, and with Hindustani engines installed, which produce a good deal more thrust than the original Adours or even the Adour Mk 106s, a conformal fuel tank would not be a terrible stretch. Also, the Ferranti (BAe systems) Blue Vixen radar could be rather smoothly accomodated into the airframe as well, or so it appears to me.

And bear in mind that the HAF does not have at its disposal massive R&D funds, as you give your military, so therefore, given the primarily defensive obligations of the HAF, a premium is placed on reliability, maintainability, and low operating cost over technological advancement. The Jaguar is a reliable, maintainable, low-cost aircraft that will perform in the hands of a competent pilot. Also, the Jaguar was never a fast plane and its not going to get much faster. I could probably do without the conformal tanks in the end, but the installation of a fighter radar like the Blue Vixen (of which I would imagine that Hindustan Aeronautics has made a fair number of less-than-liscenced copies) seems far from unfeasible.

If you're after a plane that can operate off dirt and grass strips, why not go for the IAe Spitfire?

Yes, they're Turboprops, but they've got all the modern accessories you'd want in a Ground Attack aircraft (we also use them for CAP in parts of Africa), and they're very reliable...

Heh, wow, I have no idea where you got me trying to get you to buy my aircraft. With your semi-IC posts I don't think I would even agree to it. Moreover, my industries have very little capabilities to produce enough aircraft for my expanding military, let alone exporting them. The short post a while back was just a joke.

I was just commenting on adding an extra fuel tank to the Jaguar. You can't add a fuel tank and more weapons, it's simply not feasible. You're adding more weight than the airframe can handle at moderate velocities, it's simply logic. You either add a fuel tank, and drop some weapons, or add some weapons, and lose some range. It's as easy as that.

Regardless, weight has little to do with maximum velocity. Scratch that, it has some to do, but not in this case. Whatever additions you add to the Jaguar it'll keep the same maximum velocity, because the amount of energy the engines can put out. It'll just eat up more gas during the acceleration, and believe me, you're going to be deceleration and accelerating quite a bit on an aircraft.

If you're after a plane that can operate off dirt and grass strips, why not go for the IAe Spitfire?

Yes, they're Turboprops, but they've got all the modern accessories you'd want in a Ground Attack aircraft (we also use them for CAP in parts of Africa), and they're very reliable...

Well, it would be a good choice, however, they're especiall prone to anti-air artillery fire. They're even more unarmored on the belly than the American A-10, and that's dangerous enough. Moreover, I question it's ability to effectively carry, let alone fire, modern equipment. You would have to re-route the entire aircraft with electronics, and add a bunch more worth of hydraulics.

Unless, you designed your own Spitfire, or this is a Spitfire I've never heard of, or he planned it just for strafing...in those three cases, ignore me.

Well the jaguar can be equipped with a radar (the Indian's already have some, i think it's an italian griffo soemthing or other but i'm not sure). but personally i think Mac's on the right road as far as extra fuel, strathdonian versions (when on a strike role) tend to carry either 1 1000lb or a laser pod once the fuel and MICA IRs(or more likely sidewinders) are loaded.

Mind you they do have a cheap APG-66 (same one as in the hawk 200 series) in the nose and sacrfice at least one of the guns so they can have a FLIR...

If you have Mirage 2000s available then Strathdonia might be interested, depending on weither we actually manage to get the funds together...

I have some 50 of them....given that they saw considerable action in the Bonstock war, perhaps a price of $22m each? (Purchased new for $50m)

Roycelandia>> The beleaguered ACA mechanized infantry left in Gabon can attest to the nastiness of the Spitfire as a ground attack craft. So, there's no need to be spreading them, eh? ;) Eh?

Well, it would be a good choice, however, they're especiall prone to anti-air artillery fire. They're even more unarmored on the belly than the American A-10, and that's dangerous enough. Moreover, I question it's ability to effectively carry, let alone fire, modern equipment. You would have to re-route the entire aircraft with electronics, and add a bunch more worth of hydraulics.

Unless, you designed your own Spitfire, or this is a Spitfire I've never heard of, or he planned it just for strafing...in those three cases, ignore me.

The IAe Spitifire is indeed a Roycelandian Design (IAe= Imperial Aerospace).

It's larger than a WWII vintage Spitfire, and uses onboard Electronic systems- HUD, ECMs, and so on. The belly is armoured, and the aircraft's fuselage is made of a Kevlar/Polymer composite, the engine is a modern injected Turboprop, and in short, it's more than capable of carrying modern munitions.

They are vulnerable to AA fire (although not as vulnerable as youd' think), and, as AC and Lusaka can attest, they can wreak terrible destruction on anyone unfortunate enough to be in their way. We've also used them on aircraft (mainly MiG-15s and MiG-21s, as well as choppers), so they're still a vital part of the Imperial Air Force. And like I said, you can operate them anywhere...

A very very quick question to AMW -

Is LIDAR permitted?

I'm not certain of that one, _Taiwan... we've got the '04 tech limit established, which I think means that civilian LIDAR is present in some capacity. As for military or advanced applications, I'm not up on its development... there was something about someone considering using it in the ABM system to aim at out-of-atmosphere missiles, but I'm afraid I'm uncertain as to what an acceptable limit would be on adapting or using it.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

Heh, wow, I have no idea where you got me trying to get you to buy my aircraft. With your semi-IC posts I don't think I would even agree to it. Moreover, my industries have very little capabilities to produce enough aircraft for my expanding military, let alone exporting them. The short post a while back was just a joke.

I was just commenting on adding an extra fuel tank to the Jaguar. You can't add a fuel tank and more weapons, it's simply not feasible. You're adding more weight than the airframe can handle at moderate velocities, it's simply logic. You either add a fuel tank, and drop some weapons, or add some weapons, and lose some range. It's as easy as that.

Regardless, weight has little to do with maximum velocity. Scratch that, it has some to do, but not in this case. Whatever additions you add to the Jaguar it'll keep the same maximum velocity, because the amount of energy the engines can put out. It'll just eat up more gas during the acceleration, and believe me, you're going to be deceleration and accelerating quite a bit on an aircraft.


I said I'd drop the conformals already! Geesh. Its not like I'm making a big bad new airplane! I'm trying to extend my humble jaguars' combat utility for a couple more years before the AF scratches the money together to replace them with some second- or third-hand MiG-29s. I don't understand what you are saying about engines. In RL, the Jaguar is underpowered so the British gave it new engines. Adours are old, and Hindustani-built turbofans, while not the most advanced, are more efficient and deliver a notable increase in thrust when compared with the older models.

But I must apologize to you. I don't know my technicalities and have always written them off as 'inside the margin of error,' so to speak. My planes, and pretty much all Hindustani equipment except the Akash SAM, Bengal corvette, and Bihar attack sub are not what you'd call world beaters, so even if there were incorrect aspects of their design, it would be offset by the extent to which they would almost certainly be outnumbered and by their plain lack of sophistication.

As for you, Royce, the more I think about it the more I think that your spitfire would not be a terribly drastic step down the technology ladder for the Hindustani Air Force. But COIN aircraft are not very integral to the Hindustani strategy. Try sending a few of those at a Chinese army surging across the border, a military that doesn't need to operate low-cost equipment because it can afford (although some have disputed this, trade with Russia and Xiaguo, and possibly elsewhere, makes such a picture look ever more likely) expensive and sophisticated pieces. Mount Goodwin Austin is as important to the Hindustani national defense as the army. I would keep the Viggens but a twin-engined aircraft...wait...why not just keep the Viggens and avoid this entire predicament? I think the whole 'I Will drop dez vigunns' idea came from the fact that de Vig has only one engine. I think I will not pursue this course any further, but rather look immediately to a replacement for the Viggen that is not worse than the Viggen.

Strath, its actually the Agave radar. Here's some reference:

http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avjag.html#m8

A very very quick question to AMW -

Is LIDAR permitted?


If it's 2004 tech then LIDAR is 42 years old, so it should be legal.

LRR, the Spitfire is ideal for use against massed formations of troops... As AC and Lusaka can tell you, our standard ASM is the Prometheus Napalm Rocket- It's every bit as nasty and effective as it sounds, and the Spitfire can comfortably fit 8 under each wing, along with a total loadout of a Drop Tank, up to 10 AAMs, and, of course, the 8 20mm Cannon in the wings, firing depleted Uranium Slugs.

Still, the Saab Viggen is probably as good a choice as any...

I'm not certain of that one, _Taiwan... we've got the '04 tech limit established, which I think means that civilian LIDAR is present in some capacity. As for military or advanced applications, I'm not up on its development... there was something about someone considering using it in the ABM system to aim at out-of-atmosphere missiles, but I'm afraid I'm uncertain as to what an acceptable limit would be on adapting or using it.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

I'm thinking a ship-based, power-hungry beast. It shouldn't be too technologically difficult as it's not really miniturised and not power-efficient.

I'm thinking a ship-based, power-hungry beast. It shouldn't be too technologically difficult as it's not really miniturised and not power-efficient.

Well, I'm not sure if you saw my last post...but that's 1962 technology. I would scan in the article, but my scanner doesn't work.

LRR, the Spitfire is ideal for use against massed formations of troops... As AC and Lusaka can tell you, our standard ASM is the Prometheus Napalm Rocket- It's every bit as nasty and effective as it sounds, and the Spitfire can comfortably fit 8 under each wing, along with a total loadout of a Drop Tank, up to 10 AAMs, and, of course, the 8 20mm Cannon in the wings, firing depleted Uranium Slugs.

Still, the Saab Viggen is probably as good a choice as any...

Well, unlike your experiences in Africa, these aircraft would not be facing ill-equipped and relatively unsupported units, and would not be flown by morally bankrupt pilots :)

They would be up against J-10s and J-11s, both fairly advanced aircraft, deployed in very very big numbers plus SAMs and a bazillion other things that Sino would throw at me if he ever decided to finish off old Hindustan. The Viggen is also a pretty neat plane, the more I learn about it. It had one of europe's first pulse-doppler radars and is the only aircraft besides the Tornado that carries both afterburners and thrust reversers. Hindustani Viggens are probably a bit different from Swedish ones in that they have different radars and avionics, different engines, and a redesigned canopy that offers better rearward visibility.

I think I might withdraw my last squadron of Hunters too.

But about tech limits...this does raise an interesting question. What to do about all the undeveloped technology? Perhaps we should limit everything to the top-line RL equipment? Or should we allow anything that existed in previous times but was not ever fully developed? I've got a crazy idea...why not revert to 1955 technology? Then it would be fair as fair. Quinntonian Sabres, British Vampires, Russian MiG-15s, and Hindustani...er...Hurricanes?

Plus the viggen is close to the A-10 in terms of tank killing cannon power (if you mount the external 30x173mm KCA gun pod which also has a handy additional hard point underneath it so you cna mount an external gun and not lose a missile...

Well, unlike your experiences in Africa, these aircraft would not be facing ill-equipped and relatively unsupported units

I resent that! ;) He faced me!

I resent that! ;) He faced me!

Sorry. :(

I didn't know that Strath. Thats pretty neat. Mabye I won't replace the Vigs after all.

But how do you guys feel about my proposal for extreme technological equality? It would be a step outside the mainstream, that's for sure.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=412124
Taiwan, Sino, Xiaguo Unification

So wait, who the hell controls the United Arab Emirates? I have some issues with the Horumuz penninsula and the bedouin tribal war that I need to settle.

Okay... now this may be a stupid question, because I'm sure that I should already know the answer, but, the Panama Canal in AMW... is it under totally NPC Panamanian control, is it held or partly controlled by Quinntonia, or is it something else? (United Elias property, Roycelandian influenced, did BG do something about it years ago and I've totally forgotten?)

Obviously, I ask because Portmeirion is about to hope that it holds more sway with whoever may be in charge there than does Paris, heh. To find out, we've got as long as it takes a French armada to organise, put to sea, and cross the Atlantic :)

I was expecting to be sending a telegram to Baghdad asking them to deny the French access by the Suez, but the dastards are going the other way!

(What? Elkazor? Oh! Don't look at this! Hey, look behind you, is that the ghost of Zola come to spread literary criticism of the ghastly conditions your empire forces upon its poor? [runs])

Wait...are you going to free French colonies, BG? Sino alluded to it in one of his posts (in which he called us 'curry-munchers' and was afraid that we were going to invade), but i seem to have completely missed it.

By the way, Sino and Xiaguo, do you guys use FC-1s? I think I might buy some from Beth Gellert to fill some holes in my AF's fighter force, namely a requirement for a relatively advanced type to supplement the small number of aging F-16As and much larger number of fairly capable but relatively unsophisticated SAf. Viggens.

Perhaps I should look at the Miggen...

Indeed (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=410358&page=1&pp=15). We have sent a fleet against New Caledonia and the Iles Loyauté, with WIGs bound for Wallis and Futuna. We're about ready to ask the SSRC for at least moral if not more practical support, as the French have dispatched an armada in response.

As to the Miggen, that would certainly be available to Hindustan. It exists presently as a pretty primitive fighter in most regards, but has plenty of contingency for superior systems (in case it was ever required that the ISCBG turn out a large number of cheap fighters). Mach 2+ category in any regard (and the T6E engine is unlikely to be replaced without a major re-design that might negate the low cost), and usually armed with fairly modest Drapoel and old USSR-origin missiles, but having also been built in a demonstrator form with Loviatar-A AMRAAM based -of course- on the similarly-named SAM system. Its radar as fitted to Drapoel and Yamani models can deal with fighter-size targets out to better than thirty kilometres, which is a great help to the cash-strapped PAAF, but might require improvement or replacement for Hindustani consideration, I expect.
Of course, being designed for use by the PAAF, it is meant to have low upkeep demands and to function from the sort of rough, short strips scattered through the Korean mountains.

Buuut I have some Pacific conflict to be typing about [scurries off]

Wait...are you going to free French colonies, BG? Sino alluded to it in one of his posts (in which he called us 'curry-munchers' and was afraid that we were going to invade), but i seem to have completely missed it.

By the way, Sino and Xiaguo, do you guys use FC-1s? I think I might buy some from Beth Gellert to fill some holes in my AF's fighter force, namely a requirement for a relatively advanced type to supplement the small number of aging F-16As and much larger number of fairly capable but relatively unsophisticated SAf. Viggens.

Perhaps I should look at the Miggen...

OOC: If General Zhang becomes General of the PLAN and the PLAAF, expect the FC-1 to be scrapped.

^ Nope. haha, Curry Munchers, rascist, especially when I love curry. Anyways, I have dispatched an armada to the islands. I don't think more Igovian territory and influence is needed, especially when it came out of no where.

^ Nope. haha, Curry Munchers, rascist, especially when I love curry. Anyways, I have dispatched an armada to the islands. I don't think more Igovian territory and influence is needed, especially when it came out of no where.

Well, it would be nice if Sino used, oh, mabye...Bedgellens and Hindustanis instead of Punjabs and Curry Munchers. After all, Sino shouldn't be afraid of Hindustan and Beth Gellert doesn't have Punjab. (Furthermore, Indian stereotypes don't really apply to Hindustan which consists of Pakistan and some Indian provinces.)

And as for New Caledonia...why on earth do you care? You could practically count the non-French inhabitants on two hands. Their combined land area can't be much more than Monaco. All the islands are is a French navy base. But what am I saying. We used taxation of the Straits of Malacca as pretext to destroy Bonstock. By the same standards, I can't think of many Asian powers who would escape destruction.

[OOC: Well, I wouldnt say 'out of nowhere'... the fact that New Caledonia is an imperial posession, and implications that it might serve as a base for operations to re-establish the old colonial holdings of Asia aside, it has served as a landing base for insertion of agents into Tord, who then committed several acts of violence, and as a naval base for vessels which seemingly siezed and boarded a merchant vessel sailing in international waters in the South Pacific.

The real mystery is why the Igovians are doing it instead of Lyong... though again it seems to preserve a Lyongian tradition of living vicariously through India ^_^

And eating curry. Because its good.]

I'm not trying to deny the tastiness of curry...I'm just complaining about Sino calling names.

Heh, yes, the main justification now coming out of Portmeirion with regards to the initial decision to assemble forces to liberate French Pacific holdings is in, "piracy committed against progressive societies and sponsored by the French state".

But of course the planning began weeks ago, and now most Igovians are pre-occupied with the fact that they're ideologically opposed to the French absolute monarchy and that there is no reason to assume that French imperialism in Africa isn't a taste of things to come in Asia... and in the past, before the British won out, even India was a target for that.

Is it possible that I could join AMW? I know I haven't quite made myself known throughout Nationstates, but I feel that my role playing skills are good enough to constitute admittance into your group.

Is it possible that I could join AMW? I know I haven't quite made myself known throughout Nationstates, but I feel that my role playing skills are good enough to constitute admittance into your group.


If Nascent does decide to fully join AMW I give him my support.

Is it possible that I could join AMW? I know I haven't quite made myself known throughout Nationstates, but I feel that my role playing skills are good enough to constitute admittance into your group.

I think I can say that no one here would object to you off hand. Feel free to come up with a proposed nation outline (if anyone were going to have a problem with you joining us, thats where it'd come up), and dont hesitate to ask questions, as things in AMW may not be as clear as they ought.

Well, Im guessing most of the larger nations are taken so how about Cyprus?

Europe, Oceania, and Latin America are all pretty empty right now. (Don't trust the list, it's all outdated.)

Is there an updated list somewhere?

Because idealy I would like to have either Italy or Greece.

Edit: Actually, I would settle for anything on the Mediterranean Sea Greece, Italy, Algeria, etc.

Greece is free, I think Italy is taken, Algeria is under French rule.

well then, if there are no problems I would like to use greece.

Thanks

One other requirement - could you give us an RP sample?

And, perhaps an outline of the sort of state you'll be playing?

Yeah sure, Ill go dig up an rp example.

For the description:

I was thinking of playing as a semi imperialistic greece, eager to return itself to the days when greece ruled the known world. But instead of being in the city state format, I will be playing a united greece. And umm....thats about all I can think of right now, so I hope thats enough. If it is not then I will rack my brain and think up some more. But in reality, I will not be some warmongering idiot, but will most likely look towards expanding maily towards the east, and will probably stop once we capture Istanbul. I am still debating with myself on whether I will use a small senate and some type of head of state, or revert Greece back to a monarchy, but either way, the leader will be a self proclaimed military genious and will more than likely make all the other leaders who come into contact with him laugh at his idiocy.

Edit: Two of these are still ticking, although I need to get off my lazy butt and finish both. And the other is a story, and less of an rp.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=413179

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=400002&page=1&pp=15

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=398970

jesus christ what is with all these ancient monarchies and stuff? France, Italy, an Ottoman Empire, and now a Greece wanting back imperial glory?

Have modern strongmen gone out of fashion or something?


(oh, I kid)

It makes us second-worlders rightly concerned!

Thats hilarious...I seriously considered posting, when I saw someone wanted to play in the mediterrean area, that we'd have another Imperialist on our hands. I guess too many people have been playing Total War and Age of Empires.

Welcome to AMW...

lol, well while Im not too sure how to take the above comments, Ill just assume they were just witty banter. And Im not going for the ultra imperialistic I wanna rule the world imperialism, just the slighlty, hey that place looks cool, lets make it under our rule type. But Im not great with war role plays, so I think I will go for more diplomatic ways, such as offering the peoples our protection and such, and in return they become like a territory that is on the outside soveirgn, but in reality follow our rules, customs, and so forth. But you do not have to worry about me trying to stretch my empire to say Iceland or anything on those lines.

Also, does this mean that I can say make a post under the banner of AMW now? If not what do I still need to do?

Well for Greece to be imperialistic it would face soem issues:
first unless it was in a position and willing to sign up for the Holy league, any western expansion would face a major obstacle in form of the Estenlands (fuedal ukraine) and any approach into turkey wouldn't go down well with the Ottomans or UE and its not as if Greece has a historical imperial influence outside of the middle east it might be difficult to see greece muscling in on africa or south america.
I'm not saying it's impossible only that it will take serious effort.

Well, your RPing seems up to scratch, so I will give you a stamp of approval.

Yes, I believe you can start posting under AMW. Perhaps an introductary RP?

Ok, can do. I may or may not get started on it tonight, but I will try to get it started by the weekend

Oh and happy 420 :D

Btw, I've decided against joining this or any other new RPs. My brain actually can't handle it! Maybe when I upgrade my processor..

Apologies to anyone who, er... wants one? >_>

Britain is under new leadership!

The former TBF players has handed over to me (Trucial States). For more information please read this thread relating to the IC transition of the UK:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=8724415

For those who have concerns of the UAE, I will still play Trucial States, but I will post less regularly. If you have an issue pertaining to the UAE, then please telegram the TBF account, as I will check this more regularly, and then if necessary I can log in as TS and post on a specific thread.

I look forward to RPing with everyone in AMW in a more high profile way and welcome this new opportunity. Whilst the policies of the UK will change with an IC change in government as well as an OOC one, I will uphold the high standard of RP which has typified TBF.

Thank you.

Well I don't think I'd be allowed to sign up for this huh?

Sorry account changed automatically. Anyway it was ment to be with Maldaathi

Reposted from another thread, as it will be more useful here...]

JOINING AMW

Anyone can apply, many are accepted. An application consists of the following:

1) Geography: Choosing a country/ies that are as yet unoccupied by another player-nation.

2) History/Politics: Outlining the form you invision that country taking under your control.

3) Roleplay Record: Providing some RP samples from your previous RPs.

Its rather simple, really... you put it out there, and it gets analyzed. If you've chosen geography that is actually part of an existing PC nation, or if its one of several NPC nations with existing backstory (most of Southeast Asia, for example), you'll be informed as the application goes through the communal review. In the case of those historied NPC states, you may be asked to take into account that history as you determine the form and history of your state. If your nation's structure is ludicrous, you will be questioned on it as well, but AMW has such a wide diaspora that theres probably precedent for anything you can come up with ^_^.

As for RP samples, its always good to have a variety here. The literary quality is not the key factor, so much as the content: If all your RPs are invasion threads or 'land-grabs' on various Earths, then there may be some reluctance to let you in, as AMW does try to elevate the game from a 'Risk' style world to a more varied one.

Once questions and conflicts have been looked at, as long as no members voice adamant obections to your participation, you should recieve approvals (the requirement is two, though the more the merrier) from existing members, confirming your membership in AMW. Standard practice would then see you start an introductory RP so your state can step out into the wonderful world of AMW.

Unoccupied States with AMW histories:

Laos, Burma, Thailand, Cambodia (formerly Marimaia or allied), Borneo, Sulawesi/Celebes, Moluccas, Aceh (former FR Bonstock, turned Islamic republic), Papua (former FR Bonstock, under Quinntonian provisional administration), Vietnam (Igovian-supported RL government), South Africa and possibly other Subsaharan states (associated in RP with SSA nations), Panama (Quinntonian supported RL government), South Korea (reduced territory, Quinntonian-backed democratic regime).
There are also some areas which are less certain: recently/currently being colonized areas such as Algeria/Morocco/Phillipines, or areas in NPC rebellion such as Western Sahara... I'm uncertain as to wether imperialized NPC states count aferward as player-controlled, or as NPC states under PC influence, which would leave them more open to new player entry.

Player-Occupied territories in AMW:

Quinntonia: USA, Hamhung & Hungnam

Dra-pol: northern Korea, to south of Seoul, less Hamhung & Hungnam

Beth Gellert: Sri Lanka, Indian states of Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh, Orissa, Chhatisgarh

Andaman and Nicobar: Andaman and Nicobar Islands

Sujava: Java, Sumatra (less Aceh, incl. Riau-Lingga Archipelago), Madura, Bali, Lesser Sunda Islands (to Tanimbar).

Bonstock: Singapore

Roycelandia: Cuba, Jamaica, The Bahamas, Hispaniola, St Kitts and Nevis, Attu and Kisaka Islands, Cape Verde Islands, Kenya, Sudan, Uganda, Southern Gabon

Lusaka: Most of Tanzania, Eastern Zambia, part of DR Congo

Al Khals: part of Tanzania

Strathdonia: Malawi

African Commonwealth: Most of DR Congo, northern R Congo, Rwanda, Burundi

The British Federation: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and its Overseas Territories

United Elias: Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Bahrain, Qatar, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Brunei, Belize, Seychelles, Western Gabon

Lavrageria: parts of Belarus

The Estenlands: Ukraine, parts of Belarus

Bendorel: Sicily, Sardinia, Malta

Elkazor: France

Armandian Cheese: Russia (less Primorye)

Al-Ahzad: Oman and Yemen (less Socotra)

SwissCorp: Switzerland

Spyr: Eastern Lyong Peninsula

Tord: Southwestern Lyong Peninsula

North Yaman: Norhern Lyong Peninsula

Lunatic Retard Robots: Madhya Pradesh, Pakistan, Matharashtra, Gujarat

Mahratta Confederacy: Rajasthan, Delhi, Haryana, Uttar Pradesh, Uttranchal, Punjab, Himachal Pradesh, Jammu and Kashmir.

East Islandia: Australia, western New Guinea

Sino: Much of southern China

Xiaguo: Northern China, Mongolia.

_Taiwan: Taiwan

Sabir: Syria, Lebanon, and the Turkish provinces of Hatay, Gaziantep, Şanlıurfa, Kilis, Mardin, Osmaniye, Diyarbakir, Adiyaman, Batman, Sirnak, Siirt

Asgard Combine: Iceland

Trucial States: United Arab Emirates

Doomingsland: Italy (less Sicily & Sardinia)

Grande Peru: Peru

The Macabees: Spain

Yafor 2: Turkey, less provinces contained within Sabir

Hudecia: Canada (inactive but reserved)

Oshima and Izu: Southern Japan

Dai Nippon Koku: Northern Japan

Neo-Anarchos: Venezuela, Guyana, Colombia Suriname, Ecuador.

Caelean: Ireland less Northern Ireland

Hajjiyah: Mauritania, Senegal, Gambia (continued interest AMW?)

Pending applications:

Sevaris: South Africa [in need of SSA commentary]

(][[-If anything has been missed/is wrong, please inform!-]][)

Im in Greece. At least im pretty sure.

Well, the Russian Mafia controls Nigeria, and I have conquered Kazakhstan.

righty-o.

Nigeria again brings up an issue on which I think we could use some discussion: the relation between 'conquered' NPC states and territory availability for new members.

Well, can't we deal with those things on a case-by-case basis?

ooc: Just to be informative, Singapore is invading Malaysia (with the obvious intent of reestablishing the Federal Republic)

Any objections, ooc or ic? And can someone RP resistance so it doesn't look like I'm just randomly landgrabbing again?

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=414237

Great post, Spyr, very informative! I've only one thing to add: That is that Neo-Anarchos has annexed Columbia in a rather peaceful manner, check the "you only rule twice" thread - Also, Angola has been more or less gobbled up by the African Commonwealth, if a new nation wants it it should have to deal ICly with a secession from Commonwealth.

ooc: Just to be informative, Singapore is invading Malaysia (with the obvious intent of reestablishing the Federal Republic)

Any objections, ooc or ic? And can someone RP resistance so it doesn't look like I'm just randomly landgrabbing again?

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=414237

OOC: Singapore having F-22s and B-2s! anyone else see something odd here?

I'm interested in joining. I can provide examples of Rps and such. Is the Republic of Ireland taken?

OOC: Singapore having F-22s and B-2s! anyone else see something odd here?

They're all leftovers from the days of the FRB, that would normally have been in deep storage, but were marshalled for this event only. Indeed, part of the reason for the war is so I could have the population base necessary to maintain such units in states other then deep storage. Is there a problem with using them? I'm fine to use F-16s and B-52s instead if it is a problem.

I'm interested in joining. I can provide examples of Rps and such. Is the Republic of Ireland taken?

That would be interesting...

They're all leftovers from the days of the FRB, that would normally have been in deep storage, but were marshalled for this event only. Indeed, part of the reason for the war is so I could have the population base necessary to maintain such units in states other then deep storage. Is there a problem with using them? I'm fine to use F-16s and B-52s instead if it is a problem.

where did you get them from originally? USQ?

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=414207

Mobilizing for my invasion of Sicily, I'd appreciate if whoever owns it started RPing it.

where did you get them from originally? USQ?

Originally? I built them I guess. Back then, I had all of Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia as a tax base in the Federal Republic of Bonstock (with a much better economy then they have now, similar to the US). When the FRB fell, those units were flown to Singapore, and put in storage just in case they would ever be needed. Now they are needed, and now they are used.

Originally? I built them I guess. Back then, I had all of Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia as a tax base in the Federal Republic of Bonstock (with a much better economy then they have now, similar to the US). When the FRB fell, those units were flown to Singapore, and put in storage just in case they would ever be needed. Now they are needed, and now they are used.

You built them?! I have to say I'm very skeptical, but lets see what everyone else thinks...

What about Finland and Sweden. I couldn't see if anyone took those.

Both are open. there were applicants months ago, but i think its safe to say their bids have expired.

1. Thailand and Laos. (Or Thailand if can't have both)

2. I want to direct Thailand and Laos into a modern day Japanese System. By that I mean in a technology direction with a slight agriculture standpoint. The goverment will be a semi communist and semi democracy (meaning We let the General Populace have freedom and choice to a extent) with its citizens loyal to their country and their leader. I also want us to expand our borders with a few specific intrests in mind.

3. I haven't done much RPing with Union of Russia but Im soon Roleplay Peacekeeping forces in Thomasien and I also hope to lead a Peace Conferance to end the fighting.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=8730828#post8730828

Thanks.

That would be interesting...

I think Ireland's already taken, though...

1. Thailand and Laos. (Or Thailand if can't have both)

2. I want to direct Thailand and Laos into a modern day Japanese System. By that I mean in a technology direction with a slight agriculture standpoint. The goverment will be a semi communist and semi democracy (meaning We let the General Populace have freedom and choice to a extent) with its citizens loyal to their country and their leader. I also want us to expand our borders with a few specific intrests in mind.

3. I haven't done much RPing with Union of Russia but Im soon Roleplay Peacekeeping forces in Thomasien and I also hope to lead a Peace Conferance to end the fighting.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=8730828#post8730828

Thanks.

OOC: Now that area has a lot of history behind it in AMW......

Thailand, Laos and Cambodia were once parts of a nation called Marimaia, which wound up with influence over Burma, Malaysia and (for a short time) Vietnam before collapsing in on itself.

I'd love to see someone else occupy that area; since my departure from Southeast Asia, the former Marimaia was talked about a lot but no-one really did anything about it. Now though, the area's gained new interest from the existing nations.

Anyhoo, if you get the endorsements you need, then I'll be more than happy to give you my info on Marimaia's military, the politics, economy and all that sort of thing; that way you can tie the birth of your nation into past AMW events.

Bonstock: biudling your own F-22s might be taking things a bit too far but kit/license biult EF Typoons, Rafales, F-15s or even F-35s (IIRC signapore is on the JSF lsit in RL) might be possible.
US heavy bombers are another very questionable area as the Us never gave licenses or 2nd hand examples to anyone, but it wouldn't be inconceivable for a large nation to say pick up old british or soviet bombers, heck with a few tweaks the victor and Vulcan woudl both still be awesoem units today and in mnay senses far mroe useful than the american models (what with the vuclan being a heavy bomber, crisue missile platform, Electronic warfare and SEAD platform and a tanker at various times).

I browsed through the listed users and nations occupied, and I didnt come across the Republic of Ireland, though Britain & Northern Ireland are taken. If Ireland is not taken, and I provide you with an example of how I'd like to Roleplay as Ireland and what I'd like to do, would that lend me some consideration? I quite like the idea of this Modern World scenario.

I browsed through the listed users and nations occupied, and I didnt come across the Republic of Ireland, though Britain & Northern Ireland are taken. If Ireland is not taken, and I provide you with an example of how I'd like to Roleplay as Ireland and what I'd like to do, would that lend me some consideration? I quite like the idea of this Modern World scenario.
I'm sorry, but Ireland is indeed taken. Fellow's name is Caelas, or something similiar.

I'm sorry, but Ireland is indeed taken. Fellow's name is Caelas, or something similiar.

Well he hasn't done anything as yet so I would be inclined to give it to Hrstrovokia.