NationStates Jolt Archive

My parents were immigrants to the UK (from outside of the Europe). I am a UK citizen, as are they. I consider myself to be a "native" European insofar as anyone can be described as "native" to Europe. Would you?

You will lose marks every time you bring up race.

I dont consider you as native. Look up what native means. Are white americans also native americans?

Hi,

I'm essentially an immigrant, from the great nation of Holland, with an English mother, and have been living in the UK for over 30 years. I still feel Dutch, mostly, although I can speak proper Norfolk now and more than pass for any number of English accents. Have lived throughout the UK and met thousands of immigrants.

I'm still partly unsure about mass immigration myself, as I have also travelled a bit and seen countries losing their national identity (what about England, becoming much more American? Yuk! - I'm sure that there's hundreds of good things about America, it's just we seem to be getting the worst of them here.) I think its such a pity when a country loses its national identity, perhaps its just more to do with the younger generations losing the practical skills that people have e.g. American Indians who go out and get taught how to hunt again. Or people who have forgotten how to bake cake.

Here's a strange one: I heard on Radio 4 a few weeks ago that (I think) Estonian workers now migrate to Ireland to work on mushroom farms. The economic gap they leave behind is filled by workers migrating to Estonia from their neighbours in Belarus or Lithuania where the economies are even less strong. Wow, that's really weird.

What I do feel strongly about is the slow move to more right-wing views over much of Europe, and hope that this is firmly halted.

anyway enough of me,
regards


Some right wing views are better. Some left wing views are better. On immigration, right wing is right I think...

I am not completely anti-immigrant only anti-illeagle-immigrant... We need to get rid of the Illeagles in america and have them do it the right way!

Because diversity is the key to survival.

Ethnically homogenous countries are diverse within themselves too. They arent all clones...

I dont consider you as native. Look up what native means. Are white americans also native americans?

Yes.

I dont consider you as native.

Why not?

Look up what native means.

na·tive Audio pronunciation of "native" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ntv)
adj.

1. Existing in or belonging to one by nature; innate: native ability.
2. Being such by birth or origin: a native Scot.
3. Being one's own because of the place or circumstances of one's birth: our native land.
4. Originating, growing, or produced in a certain place or region; indigenous: a plant native to Asia.
5.
1. Being a member of the original inhabitants of a particular place.
2. Of, belonging to, or characteristic of such inhabitants: native dress; the native diet of Polynesia.
6. Occurring in nature pure or uncombined with other substances: native copper.
7. Natural; unaffected: native beauty.
8. Archaic. Closely related, as by birth or race.
9. Biochemistry. Of or relating to the naturally occurring conformation of a macromolecule, such as a protein.


n.

1.
1. One born in or connected with a place by birth: a native of Scotland now living in the United States.
2. One of the original inhabitants or lifelong residents of a place.
2. An animal or plant that originated in a particular place or region.


Are white americans also native americans?

You brought up race, you lose marks.

ALL societies ARE immigrant.

You are mistaken if you think Norwegians, or anyone else, just got popped into existence by magic. And - just having been there for a hundred years, or a thousand, doesn't mean a people are NOT 'immigrants'.

Also - when one of your countrymates goes overseas, and comes back with a nice Latino wife, or she comes back with a cute oriental husband, those people are 'outsiders' becoming part of your 'culture'... and that has been happening for ever.

But - even if you were right (which, of course, you are not), and some nation was mysteriously borne in a bubble - why SHOULDN'T they be an immigrant society?

You haven't shown any GOOD reasons why a nation should be 'one ethnicity'... and we've seen a number of reasons (dropping populations, hybrid vigour of immigrant genetics in the genepool) why immigration is GOOD.

There is some relativity. Depends on how far you go back.

But they lost the culture. I dont consider Jacobi scandinavian just because his parents are. He was born and raised in USA, which makes him american. It's not just ethnicity...

So, basically, you'd like to limit your society down to people who were born in your country, with two genreations before having lived exclusively in your country, carrying genetic material that hasn't left your country in millenia, and that are not ever leaving your country in their lifetime, except for vacations?

Sound like a really, really boring place, to be honest.

I am not completely anti-immigrant only anti-illeagle-immigrant... We need to get rid of the Illeagles in america and have them do it the right way!

Yes. We should get rid of the illeagles. There should only be welleagles in the US!

Yes. We should get rid of the illeagles. There should only be welleagles in the US!
lol nice one...

btw, did I spell it wrong? I can't spell worth crap...

You haven't proved "almost no immigration".

Japan is ethnically 99% Japaneese...Do you want me to prove why pigs cant fly?

There's always Stormfront. ;)

It was easier to click on forums link when I opened my nation's page...

1. Have you considered which elements of Norwegian culture you wish to preserve?

2. If so, which, why, and how?

3. Are you familiar with the proportionality principle?

No, I'm not writing a book. I havent formulated such complex suggestions...

Japan is ethnically 99% Japaneese...Do you want me to prove why pigs cant fly?

Really? I thought the Ainu made up more than 1% of Japan's population? And what about the American troops stationed there? They're not citizens, but they are effectively in the country...

In times of slavery it was illegal to escape, still I do think supporters of escaped slaves have done a good job the past few hundred years.

The west has made a lot of money out of the third world the past 50 years and is still doing so. Those people that live there are the new slaves. It's only justified they want to come and enjoy the wealth they and their families have worked for. We live in a new sort of colonialism. We exploit the arab countries for example like it's a colony.

Besides that I remember myself as a kid wondering, after the evening news, why I was so lucky to be born in such a wealthy part of the world. Think about it, it's just luck that gave you all that wealth not because your parents of grandparents worked so hard for it. They never did that to build a wealthy country. It's only fair those people try to be as lucky as we are. We should share it. Amen

West has given so much too...ex: modern medicine...
But I think we should help developing countries more...

Fine. I wouldn't want to inflict the USA model (as you call it) on the world. The world has enough problems. :D



You can't control it. You just have to deal with that aspect of life- you don't have the ability to control society.

You can discuss your political views. Some people change societies. I dont claim it's me but some people does...

lol nice one...

btw, did I spell it wrong? I can't spell worth crap...

'Illegal' is the proper spelling.

Where does the border of Europe cease?

Geographically Europe excluding Russia and Turkey. Russia is mostly European, I know but it's too big, I mean it borders mongolia and china...

West has given so much too...ex: modern medicine...
But I think we should help developing countries more...

Given? Hardly. If I remember correctly, Bayer recently stopped producing a drug to work against the symptoms of Aids in favour for another, more expensive drug. With the cheaper drug no longer available or being produced, doctors in South Africa are struggling to help Aids patients, as there are not nearly enough funds for the more expensive new drug.

Really? I thought the Ainu made up more than 1% of Japan's population? And what about the American troops stationed there? They're not citizens, but they are effectively in the country...

I've told him that the stat is a pile of flaming horse shit, but he doesn't listen....

No, I'm not writing a book. I havent formulated such complex suggestions...
If you would, you could get your point across much more easily. You would also know better what your point is.

This is actually very good advice, even if I say so myself. Take it or leave it.

Geographically Europe excluding Russia and Turkey. Russia is mostly European, I know but it's too big, I mean it borders mongolia and china...

Geographically, it ends at the Ural mountains in the east and the Bosporus in the Southeast, enclosing both parts of Russia and Turkey.

Politically, it's not quite clear yet.

Why not?



na·tive Audio pronunciation of "native" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ntv)
adj.

1. Existing in or belonging to one by nature; innate: native ability.
2. Being such by birth or origin: a native Scot.
3. Being one's own because of the place or circumstances of one's birth: our native land.
4. Originating, growing, or produced in a certain place or region; indigenous: a plant native to Asia.
5.
1. Being a member of the original inhabitants of a particular place.
2. Of, belonging to, or characteristic of such inhabitants: native dress; the native diet of Polynesia.
6. Occurring in nature pure or uncombined with other substances: native copper.
7. Natural; unaffected: native beauty.
8. Archaic. Closely related, as by birth or race.
9. Biochemistry. Of or relating to the naturally occurring conformation of a macromolecule, such as a protein.


n.

1.
1. One born in or connected with a place by birth: a native of Scotland now living in the United States.
2. One of the original inhabitants or lifelong residents of a place.
2. An animal or plant that originated in a particular place or region.




You brought up race, you lose marks.

I dont accept you as an authority to give marks about me...

what about this definition:
1. Being a member of the original inhabitants of a particular place.

Now this applies within a sensible timeframe. If you go too far back original inhabitants would be dinasours...
ex: Native Americans arent white americans but tribes like cherokee...

I've told him that the stat is a pile of flaming horse shit, but he doesn't listen....

The sign of every good right-wing lunatic or troll... ;)

So, basically, you'd like to limit your society down to people who were born in your country, with two genreations before having lived exclusively in your country, carrying genetic material that hasn't left your country in millenia, and that are not ever leaving your country in their lifetime, except for vacations?

Sound like a really, really boring place, to be honest.

Havent formulated it exactly yet...I dont take myself that seriously to formulate such a complex concept....

what about this definition:
1. Being a member of the original inhabitants of a particular place.

What about it?
And who decides what a "sensible timeframe" is?

The term "Native Americans" is used to describe the indigenous population of America. It is a political label as well as a descriptor. What is the indigenous population of Europe? The Anglo-Saxons?

White Americans may not be Native Americans but they can be native Americans.

Really? I thought the Ainu made up more than 1% of Japan's population? And what about the American troops stationed there? They're not citizens, but they are effectively in the country...

Those statistics include permanent residents.
ex: They exclude tourists...

Those statistics include permanent residents.
ex: They exclude tourists...

Well, if the Ainu are tourists, they really must like the place. And I wouldn't call American soldiers tourists either, some of them are stationed there for years or even decades...

Given? Hardly. If I remember correctly, Bayer recently stopped producing a drug to work against the symptoms of Aids in favour for another, more expensive drug. With the cheaper drug no longer available or being produced, doctors in South Africa are struggling to help Aids patients, as there are not nearly enough funds for the more expensive new drug.

Dont think so small. It's not companies, it's inventions like penicillin...

Those statistics include permanent residents.
ex: They exclude tourists...

What about tourists who get hot & heavy with the locals?

Geographically, it ends at the Ural mountains in the east and the Bosporus in the Southeast, enclosing both parts of Russia and Turkey.

Politically, it's not quite clear yet.

How about ethnically?

That's my point ;)

Japan is ethnically 99% Japaneese...Do you want me to prove why pigs cant fly?
How easy is it for a European-American to become a Japanese citizen? Just curious...

Dont think so small. It's not companies, it's inventions like penicillin...

Sold by companies who own the patent on the invention. Modern medicin is making a healthy profit, even out of the poorest countries on the planet.

The sign of every good right-wing lunatic or troll... ;)

And that sentence demonstrated limits of your intelligence...:rolleyes:

How about ethnically?

That's my point ;)

Absolutely impossible to tell ethnically. Too mixed up, centuries of migration, conquest, intermarriage ("Tu, felix Austria, nube!" ;) ), exilants, etc.

What about it?
And who decides what a "sensible timeframe" is?

The term "Native Americans" is used to describe the indigenous population of America. It is a political label as well as a descriptor. What is the indigenous population of Europe? The Anglo-Saxons?

White Americans may not be Native Americans but they can be native Americans.

Sensible time frame is commen sense for me...

"White Americans may not be Native Americans but they can be native Americans."

listen what you say...

What about tourists who get hot & heavy with the locals?

LOL

Well, if the Ainu are tourists, they really must like the place. And I wouldn't call American soldiers tourists either, some of them are stationed there for years or even decades...

Same with the Koreans and Chinese.

Sensible time frame is commen sense for me...

...

"White Americans may not be Native Americans but they can be native Americans."

listen what you say...

"Native" with a capital N is a noun, "native" with the lower case N is an adjective.

And that sentence demonstrated limits of your intelligence...:rolleyes:
Naw ya are good but you are a troll

Ny Nordland, you have been consistently spewing flames and ad hominem attacks across this thread. You will end this immeidately or be forumbanned.

Hopefully you will report all the people insulted me too...
I've seen a couple of slap-on-the-wrist insults from a few other posters who ought to know better. From you it's a constant stream of vitriol. End it. NOW.

Official Warning, Flaming

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Game Moderator
The One-Stop Rules Shop

How easy is it for a European-American to become a Japanese citizen? Just curious...

Fairly difficult. Koreans and Chinese living in Japan since the beginning of the Second World War (and their children) have yet to recieve citizenship.

To become a Japanese citizen, you need to renounce any previous citizenship you may have had (which is somewhat dangerous, as you'll be without citizenship for a while). Other than that, all I can dig up is that it's difficult to do....

Who else is anti-immigrant?
I think Hitler was.

...



"Native" with a capital N is a noun, "native" with the lower case N is an adjective.

Stupidity of political correctness...

I think Hitler was.

He breathed air too...

Stupidity of political correctness...

No, thats grammar.

Noun, adjective? That's grammar.

Naw ya are good but you are a troll

Highly subjective and shallow...

Stupidity of political correctness...

Your opinions regarding political correctness have nothing to do with this discussion. You have yet failed to explain to me why I'm not a native European.

Ny Nordland, you have been consistently spewing flames and ad hominem attacks across this thread. You will end this immeidately or be forumbanned.


I've seen a couple of slap-on-the-wrist insults from a few other posters who ought to know better. From you it's a constant stream of vitriol. End it. NOW.

Official Warning, Flaming

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Game Moderator
The One-Stop Rules Shop

Ok...

Save America Now Bush!!

I think you spelled "From" wrong...

But they lost the culture. I dont consider Jacobi scandinavian just because his parents are. He was born and raised in USA, which makes him american. It's not just ethnicity...

So - it's not race... it's ethnicity... but it's not ethnicity, it's where you are born...

Ny Nordland, you have been consistently spewing flames and ad hominem attacks across this thread. You will end this immeidately or be forumbanned.


I've seen a couple of slap-on-the-wrist insults from a few other posters who ought to know better. From you it's a constant stream of vitriol. End it. NOW.

Official Warning, Flaming

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Game Moderator
The One-Stop Rules Shop

I just spend an hour collecting all of those insults to put them in a moderation thread. There is two other problem posts at the bottom the complaint, however, if you could look at them.

Other people make you proud too. Sometimes you are proud of what your mother does or brother. Werent you proud when americans were walking on moon? Assume u were old enough to watch it for the 1st time or maybe you are....

Why would I be proud of someone walking on the moon?

It makes no big difference to me. I'd be proud if I'd walked on the moon, or been involved in the process, maybe.

But, this passive pride thing... I just don't get it.

ethnically european....

Avoiding the issue.

What is 'ethnically european' then?

Considering that the population of every european country has been part of some expansion or another...

There is some relativity. Depends on how far you go back.

Since you answered the post with a one-liner that singularly failed to address ANY of the points, here it is again:

ALL societies ARE immigrant.

You are mistaken if you think Norwegians, or anyone else, just got popped into existence by magic. And - just having been there for a hundred years, or a thousand, doesn't mean a people are NOT 'immigrants'.

Also - when one of your countrymates goes overseas, and comes back with a nice Latino wife, or she comes back with a cute oriental husband, those people are 'outsiders' becoming part of your 'culture'... and that has been happening for ever.

But - even if you were right (which, of course, you are not), and some nation was mysteriously borne in a bubble - why SHOULDN'T they be an immigrant society?

You haven't shown any GOOD reasons why a nation should be 'one ethnicity'... and we've seen a number of reasons (dropping populations, hybrid vigour of immigrant genetics in the genepool) why immigration is GOOD.

But they lost the culture. I dont consider Jacobi scandinavian just because his parents are. He was born and raised in USA, which makes him american. It's not just ethnicity...

Ah, so it's about where you are born. Then Scandanavians are safe, because there will never be a majority of people in Scandanavia that were born elsewhere. I guess there is no longer a reason to argue. The majority of muslims in your country are Scandanavian.

Japan is ethnically 99% Japaneese...Do you want me to prove why pigs cant fly?

Again - bullshit.

What is 'ethnically' Japanese? History tells me there are at least TWO different 'Japanese populations' in Japan. Which one is the 'ethnically Japanese' one, and which the 'non-ethnically Japanese'?

No, I'm not writing a book. I havent formulated such complex suggestions...

So - what you are saying is - you want to keep all the non-whites out of your country, but haven't bothered to think about what the ramifications would be?

Well, if the Ainu are tourists, they really must like the place. And I wouldn't call American soldiers tourists either, some of them are stationed there for years or even decades...

I was under the impression the Ainu were ACTUALLY the (original) 'natives'...

And that sentence demonstrated limits of your intelligence...:rolleyes:

That's almost everyone now, that you have questioned the intelligence of.

DO you REALLY think yourself THAT MUCH smarter than the average member of this Forum?

Naw ya are good but you are a troll

(Check TG, UT)

I was under the impression the Ainu were ACTUALLY the (original) 'natives'...

They are. I believe Cabra West was being sarcastic.

They are. I believe Cabra West was being sarcastic.

(I was reinforcing the point... some do not pay attention). :)

That's almost everyone now, that you have questioned the intelligence of.

DO you REALLY think yourself THAT MUCH smarter than the average member of this Forum?
Apparently ...

You know someone who does not even bother to fully support his or her points (or attempt) is WAY above my level.

(I was reinforcing the point... some do not pay attention). :)

Oh.

I see, sir Luke.

Apparently ...

You know someone who does not even bother to fully support his or her points (or attempt) is WAY above my level.

How about we drop it? No need baiting him. He got warned, he agreed to heed the warning, so it's done.

Debate. That's what we're here for. His points stand or do not stand, as do yours. His intelligence or yours do not play into it.

If we just ignore him, he might go away....

So - it's not race... it's ethnicity... but it's not ethnicity, it's where you are born...

Basically preserving your ethnicity/culture...Complex, needs lots of thinking which I dont...

Since you answered the post with a one-liner that singularly failed to address ANY of the points, here it is again:

ALL societies ARE immigrant.

You are mistaken if you think Norwegians, or anyone else, just got popped into existence by magic. And - just having been there for a hundred years, or a thousand, doesn't mean a people are NOT 'immigrants'.

Also - when one of your countrymates goes overseas, and comes back with a nice Latino wife, or she comes back with a cute oriental husband, those people are 'outsiders' becoming part of your 'culture'... and that has been happening for ever.

But - even if you were right (which, of course, you are not), and some nation was mysteriously borne in a bubble - why SHOULDN'T they be an immigrant society?

You haven't shown any GOOD reasons why a nation should be 'one ethnicity'... and we've seen a number of reasons (dropping populations, hybrid vigour of immigrant genetics in the genepool) why immigration is GOOD.

You may also think what good reasons are there for panda's existance? I still hope and wish to conserve them...All humans are immigrant because we evolved in africa. Use commen sense on time. Dont expect me to say in detail why sky is blue...

Ah, so it's about where you are born. Then Scandanavians are safe, because there will never be a majority of people in Scandanavia that were born elsewhere. I guess there is no longer a reason to argue. The majority of muslims in your country are Scandanavian.

There's the whole thread. Dont draw conclusions from a single post...

Apparently ...

You know someone who does not even bother to fully support his or her points (or attempt) is WAY above my level.

These are very complex. Besides my views arent that unique that need only my explanation. Go to google and type anti-immigrant...

Basically preserving your ethnicity/culture...Complex, needs lots of thinking which I dont...

Why don't you wait and respond when you've done that thinking.

I mean you keep giving half-answers and "needs more thought"

What's stopping you from thinking rather than just posting?

These are very complex. Besides my views arent that unique that need only my explanation. Go to google and type anti-immigrant...

So anything I find on a Google search of "anti-immigrant" you agree with?

Why bother posting when you could just rely on other's hate to begin with?

There's the whole thread. Dont draw conclusions from a single post...

I'm not. I've been here the entire thread. You claim that being born in America makes me an ethnic American, but being born in Scandanavia doesn't make one an ethnic Scanadanavian. How does that work?

If your parents determine your ethnicity then I am Scandanavian. If your birth does then they are Scandanavian. If it's both then I'm of mixed ethnicity but I'm still Scandanavian. So which is it?

So much for that idea....

Why don't you wait and respond when you've done that thinking.

I mean you keep giving half-answers and "needs more thought"

What's stopping you from thinking rather than just posting?

Because I dont take this thread that seriously. Are you suggesting me to think and research for like 24 hours then come back here?
Anyways, I said a lot too so it's not all half answers...

So anything I find on a Google search of "anti-immigrant" you agree with?

Why bother posting when you could just rely on other's hate to begin with?

No I dont agree with everything.

Your definition of hate is highly subjective. Read previous posts...

Because I dont take this thread that seriously. Are you suggesting me to think and research for like 24 hours then come back here?
Anyways, I said a lot too so it's not all half answers...

You accused people of not having enough information in order to make their claims but when asked that you hold yourself to the same standard, you refuse.

The point is that you are claiming that you are trying to change public opinion but you admit that you are not at all as educated on the subject as you should be if this is your goal. Who are you failing? It's not us. We took the time to look up the information and form our opinions BEFORE posting.

I know this feels a little unfair. Most of us are probably older and have had a lot more time to research and form our opinions, but there are many, many young posters on this forum that put the effort necessary to debate their points so that they actually have a shot at changing public opinion and perhaps even public policy.

Believe it or not, following TCT's advice would actually do you a service.

I'm not. I've been here the entire thread. You claim that being born in America makes me an ethnic American, but being born in Scandanavia doesn't make one an ethnic Scanadanavian. How does that work?

If your parents determine your ethnicity then I am Scandanavian. If your birth does then they are Scandanavian. If it's both then I'm of mixed ethnicity but I'm still Scandanavian. So which is it?

How about both? Both ethnicity and place of birth(and place of where you are raised).
I never called you ethnic American, I simply called you American. Ethnic americans are native-americans (like cherokee). You can be an American because USA is an immigration society (via the destruction of local native american cultures).
You are american because your culture is american. And we know that USA is highly assimilative...

You accused people of not having enough information in order to make their claims but when asked that you hold yourself to the same standard, you refuse.

The point is that you are claiming that you are trying to change public opinion but you admit that you are not at all as educated on the subject as you should be if this is your goal. Who are you failing? It's not us. We took the time to look up the information and form our opinions BEFORE posting.

I know this feels a little unfair. Most of us are probably older and have had a lot more time to research and form our opinions, but there are many, many young posters on this forum that put the effort necessary to debate their points so that they actually have a shot at changing public opinion and perhaps even public policy.

Believe it or not, following TCT's advice would actually do you a service.


Speaking of all this time (which can be extensive) were you not going to leave to preserve your precious time:)

Dont get me wrong I am glad you are around:fluffle:

How about both? Both ethnicity and place of birth(and place of where you are raised).
I never called you ethnic American, I simply called you American. Ethnic americans are native-americans (like cherokee). You can be an American because USA is an immigration society (via the destruction of local native american cultures).
You are american because your culture is american. And we know that USA is highly assimilative...
At what are the qualifications of an "immigration society" ?

I mean at some level and age as has been pointed out over and over that every society really has had imigration to bring about its current population mix. We are all on some level the decendants of immigrants

So what are the qualifications for your suposed immigration society

You accused people of not having enough information in order to make their claims but when asked that you hold yourself to the same standard, you refuse.

The point is that you are claiming that you are trying to change public opinion but you admit that you are not at all as educated on the subject as you should be if this is your goal. Who are you failing? It's not us. We took the time to look up the information and form our opinions BEFORE posting.

I know this feels a little unfair. Most of us are probably older and have had a lot more time to research and form our opinions, but there are many, many young posters on this forum that put the effort necessary to debate their points so that they actually have a shot at changing public opinion and perhaps even public policy.

Believe it or not, following TCT's advice would actually do you a service.


I never claimed I was trying to change 'public opinion'. I merely said maybe I'd contribute to that in a small way. The forum is too small for changing public opinion of europeans anyways. Besides most people answering me was american. None of my comments applies to USA. It applies/it is for Europe. I really dont care which social policy USA follow...

How about both? Both ethnicity and place of birth(and place of where you are raised).
I never called you ethnic American, I simply called you American. Ethnic americans are native-americans (like cherokee). You can be an American because USA is an immigration society (via the destruction of local native american cultures).
You are american because your culture is american. And we know that USA is highly assimilative...

/agree

I knew a kid once who immigrated from Mexico when he was about 6 and knew not a word of english to begin with. A few years later he came downstairs in the morning, crying his eyes out. When his mother asked what was wrong, he answered, between his sobs, "I was dreaming in English!" He may have been born in Mexico. He may even have lived there for a while, but by the time he was a teenager, he was american.

I'm from England, and I view immigration as a very good thing. Scotland and Wales need more immigration, and Scandinavia could do with it, as the population's dying out.

I don't view the "change in culture" as a bad thing, nor has it actually happened yet.

At what are the qualifications of an "immigration society" ?

I mean at some level and age as has been pointed out over and over that every society really has had imigration to bring about its current population mix. We are all on some level the decendants of immigrants

So what are the qualifications for your suposed immigration society

Immigration countries: countries in Americas, Aust&Nz, South Africa...

Non-immigration ones: Europe, moslty asia and mostly africa...

Inter-immigration isnt really that important. Like germans moving to switzerland. And inter immigration isnt that much anyways. No mass german movement to switzerland for example...

Immigration countries: countries in Americas, Aust&Nz, South Africa...

Non-immigration ones: Europe, moslty asia and mostly africa...

Inter-immigration isnt really that important. Like germans moving to switzerland. And inter immigration isnt that much anyways. No mass german movement to switzerland for example...
I was wondering what the paramiters for such classifications are more then who falls in which

Sorry if that was not clear

I was wondering what the paramiters for such classifications are more then who falls in which

Sorry if that was not clear

I dont provide dictionary explanation quality parameters...Draw your own conclusions from my last answer....

Immigration countries: countries in Americas, Aust&Nz, South Africa...

Non-immigration ones: Europe, moslty asia and mostly africa...

Inter-immigration isnt really that important. Like germans moving to switzerland. And inter immigration isnt that much anyways. No mass german movement to switzerland for example...
South Africa was never truly an immigrant country. It is more like what the US or Australia would have been, had they not exterminated the native populations. Hence SA's extreme racism in the past. Many South Africans are now returning to Europe, so one day it will no longer be an immigrant nation at all.

I'm from England, and I view immigration as a very good thing. Scotland and Wales need more immigration, and Scandinavia could do with it, as the population's dying out.

I don't view the "change in culture" as a bad thing, nor has it actually happened yet.
Boosting its own population would also help. That is the core issue. Immigrants might help temporarily solve the issue, but unless Western nations focus on what its true source is, it will recur. Scandinavia, as with other nations, does not need more immigrants. What it needs is to start finding ways to improve its birth rates. For Russia, this is vital. Nations that are now westernising will one day realise this too.

besides me...just curious
Well, I am an immigrant...but I'm white and not muslim, so you probably wouldn't hate me.

Neo-nazi scumfuck:upyours:

Boosting its own population would also help. That is the core issue. Immigrants might help temporarily solve the issue, but unless Western nations focus on what its true source is, it will recur. Scandinavia, as with other nations, does not need more immigrants. What it needs is to start finding ways to improve its birth rates. For Russia, this is vital. Nations that are now westernising will one day realise this too.

A very good answer...

Well, I am an immigrant...but I'm white and not muslim, so you probably wouldn't hate me.

Neo-nazi scumfuck:upyours:
Scumfuck? This is a word? A true opus magnus of human linguistic creativity...

Boosting its own population would also help. That is the core issue. Immigrants might help temporarily solve the issue, but unless Western nations focus on what its true source is, it will recur. Scandinavia, as with other nations, does not need more immigrants. What it needs is to start finding ways to improve its birth rates. For Russia, this is vital. Nations that are now westernising will one day realise this too.
There can only be so much population growth until a devastating environmenal catastrophe:rolleyes:

What we need to do is take the social security away from old people so they die faster.

Scumfuck? This is a word? A true opus magnus of human linguistic creativity...
Scumfuck? I actually got it from Andrew Dice Clay, a comedian you may or may not have heard of.

My point stands: I've read some other threads started by Nordland, and he's basically a neonazi, as far as I'm concerned.

There can only be so much population growth until a devastating environmenal catastrophe:rolleyes:

What we need to do is take the social security away from old people so they die faster.
Population needs to be lowered in some areas and boosted in others so that it is stable all around.

And that (referring to the elderly) is no solution at all. What needs to be done, really, is allowing old people to be economically self-sufficient without the government needing to intervene. If possible, even opening jobs for the elderly still able and willing to work.

Scumfuck? I actually got it from Andrew Dice Clay, a comedian you may or may not have heard of.

My point stands: I've read some other threads started by Nordland, and he's basically a neonazi, as far as I'm concerned.
I would erase it from my vocabulary if I were you. Your choice.

Population needs to be lowered in some areas and boosted in others so that it is stable all around.

And that is no solution at all. What needs to be done, really, is allowing old people to be economically self-sufficient without the government needing to intervene. If possible, even opening jobs for the elderly still able and willing to work.
Which areas does it need to be lowered and boosted in? And besides, 6.5 billion people is already taking its toll on Mother Earth.

In retrospect, perhaps my theory was a bit harsh. I guess I like your idea better.

I would erase it from my vocabulary if I were you. Your choice.
Any good substitutes?

Well, I am an immigrant...but I'm white and not muslim, so you probably wouldn't hate me.

Neo-nazi scumfuck:upyours:

If you are a non-european in europe, you are an immigrant. No matter if you are white or christian.

Which areas does it need to be lowered and boosted in? And besides, 6.5 billion people is already taking its toll on Mother Earth.

In retrospect, perhaps my theory was a bit harsh. I guess I like your idea better.
Areas, obviously, like India where the population is growing too fast. Areas with low birthrates, or even falling ones, need to boost them whereas those with high ones need to lower them slightly. The world population does not need to grow so dramatically. It needs to slow down and balance globally.

Any good substitutes?
Search a dictionary. I am not about to suggest vulgarities.

Boosting its own population would also help. That is the core issue. Immigrants might help temporarily solve the issue, but unless Western nations focus on what its true source is, it will recur. Scandinavia, as with other nations, does not need more immigrants. What it needs is to start finding ways to improve its birth rates. For Russia, this is vital. Nations that are now westernising will one day realise this too.
Vital how? Like, otherwise there will be no more Russians?

If you are a non-european in europe, you are an immigrant. No matter if you are white or christian.
What if you're a European in America, and definetely not Christian?

Areas, obviously, like India where the population is growing too fast. Areas with low birthrates, or even falling ones, need to boost them whereas those with high ones need to lower them slightly. The world population does not need to grow so dramatically. It needs to slow down and balance globally.
Sounds good, but there's no way to do it except forced abortion, which didn't work in China, and that's hardly a hippie libertarian lovefest.

Vital how? Like, otherwise there will be no more Russians?
Obviously not.

not me :eek: :p :upyours: :headbang: ;) :sniper: :( :mp5: :gundge: :)

Vital how? Like, otherwise there will be no more Russians?
Well, their population is declining.

not me :eek: :p :upyours: :headbang: ;) :sniper: :( :mp5: :gundge: :)
that made no sense.

If you are a non-european in europe, you are an immigrant. No matter if you are white or christian.

So much for assimilation you were talking about.

Sounds good, but there's no way to do it except forced abortion, which didn't work in China, and that's hardly a hippie libertarian lovefest.
Neither is immigration ad infinitum a perfect solution. Immigrants will, eventually, adapt to the nation and grow richer. The nation's population will eventually fall again. As more nations westernise, populations will begin to fall globally. Solutions need to be developed to solve ageing populations and falling birth rates in richer nations, not just throwing immigrants at it like some throw money at poverty.

that made no sense.

I think they're referring to the original question.

I think they're referring to the original question.
And even then, it is hardly thought-provoking.

Neither is immigration ad infinitum a perfect solution. Immigrants will, eventually, adapt to the nation and grow richer. The nation's population will eventually fall again. As more nations westernise, populations will begin to fall globally. Solutions need to be developed to solve ageing populations and falling birth rates in richer nations, not just throwing immigrants at it like some throw money at poverty.
Right, but exactly how do you raise the population? Pay people to have babies, because that would be throwing money at problems, which you seem to be against.

*has sudden relevation*

I've Got It: CLONING!!!:eek:

How about both? Both ethnicity and place of birth(and place of where you are raised).
I never called you ethnic American, I simply called you American. Ethnic americans are native-americans (like cherokee). You can be an American because USA is an immigration society (via the destruction of local native american cultures).
You are american because your culture is american. And we know that USA is highly assimilative...

The USA is not highly assimilative. We tend to celebrate foreign cultures that enter the US, not destroy them or force people to assimilate as you wish for them to do.

My culture is American? On what do you base this? What would make me culturally Scandanavian? Being able to speak Norwegian? Ver Der Gjorde Det. Being able to cook Scandanavian dishes? Been there, done that. Knowing my history and the history of my people? Been there, done that. Embracing the values passed down from my ancestors? Been there, done that.

You seem to have a lot of requirements for what makes a person Scandanavian, but you seem to loosen those requirements when sticking other people into other cultures. Samis aren't Scandanavian, according to you (even though they are more native than you are). People who move to Scandanavia cannot be Scandanavian, according to you, but people can move to America and become American. Scandanavian is in your blood according to you, but I am Scandanavian by blood and know, I'd guess, based on your responses in this thread, more about the culture of our ancestors than you do, but I'm not Scandanavian, according to you.

Forgive me if I don't accept your view of what makes a Scandanavian because you keep giving exceptions to it. When you come upwith a view that doesn't require you to look at nearly everything as an exception unless they are people who look like and were born where you were born then perhaps we can have a better debate.

Currently, we are required to ignore the fact that your 'theory' on monoculturalism doesn't work unless we accept a lot of things that are either ridiculous or patently false in order even moderately take this debate seriously.

I'm trying, Nordland. I really am, but you're going to have to bring more than this to the table, because right now it's hard to think you're not simply trying to upset people.

Neither is immigration ad infinitum a perfect solution. Immigrants will, eventually, adapt to the nation and grow richer. The nation's population will eventually fall again. As more nations westernise, populations will begin to fall globally. Solutions need to be developed to solve ageing populations and falling birth rates in richer nations, not just throwing immigrants at it like some throw money at poverty.

My what a sophisticated way to advocate anti-immigration.

Doesn't make the underlying philosophy any more appealing.

Neither is immigration ad infinitum a perfect solution. Immigrants will, eventually, adapt to the nation and grow richer. The nation's population will eventually fall again. As more nations westernise, populations will begin to fall globally. Solutions need to be developed to solve ageing populations and falling birth rates in richer nations, not just throwing immigrants at it like some throw money at poverty.
How is that something to worry about?

Right, but exactly how do you raise the population? Pay people to have babies, because that would be throwing money at problems, which you seem to be against.

*has sudden relevation*

I've Got It: CLONING!!!:eek:
Monetary incentives are one way to do it, actually. So long as they work, and succeed in their long-term goal of raising the population. Creative governments will find better ways yet.

Cloning has its own set of problems attached. It is a good idea though, as is advancing robot technologies.

If you are a non-european in europe, you are an immigrant. No matter if you are white or christian.

What about my children? If I move to Norway and have children there will they be Scandanavian?

My what a sophisticated way to advocate anti-immigration.

Doesn't make the underlying philosophy any more appealing.
I am not advocating anti-immigration in this instance. I am saying that an actual long-term solution to the problem is needed.

I never claimed I was trying to change 'public opinion'. I merely said maybe I'd contribute to that in a small way. The forum is too small for changing public opinion of europeans anyways. Besides most people answering me was american. None of my comments applies to USA. It applies/it is for Europe. I really dont care which social policy USA follow...

Every member of the public is part of public opinion. You said you were trying to change that in a small way. Here's an idea - if you are trying to contribute in a small way to changing public opinion *gasp* that would be TRYING to change public opinion.

You posted about being anti-immigration on an international public forum and you're upset because you got a reply from *gasp* international people.

Meanwhile, if you were trying to only talk to people from Scandanavia why did you get upset with Fass when he started posting his native tongue?

I am not advocating anti-immigration in this instance. I am saying that an actual long-term solution to the problem is needed.

"In this instance" what problem are you solving?

I am not advocating anti-immigration in this instance. I am saying that an actual long-term solution to the problem is needed.
Or what? No more people?

"In this instance" what problem are you solving?
Of falling birth-rates and ageing populations.

I dont provide dictionary explanation quality parameters...Draw your own conclusions from my last answer....

In other words, your lines are so arbitrary that you are unable to explain them. Understood.

Or what? No more people?
Globally ageing populations.

Globally ageing populations.
I'm sorry, I am not very quick. Can you explain to me, briefly, how that is a problem?

I'm sorry, I am not very quick. Can you explain to me, briefly, how that is a problem?
The ageing are, generally speaking, a dependent group, unable to provide their own income or work. Assuming the continued existence of governments, and the status quo operation of economies, this is a major issue.

The ageing are, generally speaking, a dependent group, unable to provide their own income or work. Assuming the continued existence of governments, and the status quo operation of economies, this is a major issue.

Easy solution: Once people retire from their jobs, they have to take their own lives. Simple. Ruthless. But if it works....

Easy solution: Once people retire from their jobs, they have to take their own lives. Simple. Ruthless. But if it works....
A non-solution.

Of falling birth-rates and ageing populations.

In some countries. In other countries you have problems with too high of birthrates.

Perhaps the problem is these silly borders.

Easy solution: Once people retire from their jobs, they have to take their own lives. Simple. Ruthless. But if it works....

YEah, we can just have them remove all their jewlery and step into the "showers."

In some countries. In other countries you have problems with too high of birthrates.

Perhaps the problem is these silly borders.
As countries westernise, their populations will fall. At some point all population will be falling and ageing, assuming the entire world, or most of it, westernises. Ceteris paribus, this will become an inherited problem.

YEah, we can just have them remove all their jewlery and step into the "showers."

Don't forget to send guys in to remove any gold fillings. Or steel braces that can be melted down into gun barrels.

If you are a non-european in europe, you are an immigrant. No matter if you are white or christian.

Ok, well what if, orginally, my family came from Germany...moved to America..settled down here and I or my children decided to move back the old world (not that I would ever leave America), would that be acceptable?

We would of course learn the German language and embrace the German culture.

Would I be accepted?

I'm trying to find out what you would consider acceptable or not.

Don't forget to send guys in to remove any gold fillings. Or steel braces that can be melted down into gun barrels.
And their corpses can be recycled into meat suitable for farm animals.

The ageing are, generally speaking, a dependent group, unable to provide their own income or work. Assuming the continued existence of governments, and the status quo operation of economies, this is a major issue.
All right. This will either lead to an upsurge in socialism, given that the elderly will retain their voting rights, or there will be devastating FOSSIL RIOTS!



:D

And their corpses can be recycled into meat suitable for farm animals.

Or criminals. And you can use their skin to make leather coats to keep the criminals clothed. And burn fat to heat their cells.

As countries westernise, their populations will fall. At some point all population will be falling and ageing, assuming the entire world, or most of it, westernises. Ceteris paribus, this will become an inherited problem.

Well, if we have time to wait until the whole world westernizes and then (because of this) start to drop in population, we have plently of time for a solution.

Perhaps DuPont will come up with a gel.

All right. This will either lead to an upsurge in socialism, given that the elderly will retain their voting rights, or there will be devastating FOSSIL RIOTS!



:D
What it would need is an end of the basic economic problem of scarcity.

Or criminals. And you can use their skin to make leather coats to keep the criminals clothed. And burn fat to heat their cells.

You've thought about this too much already.

Well, if we have time to wait until the whole world westernizes and then (because of this) start to drop in population, we have plently of time for a solution.

Perhaps DuPont will come up with a gel.
Qui vivra, verra.

You've thought about this too much already.

And we'll give all the lawyers guns and send them into the meat grinder against the Greater Chinese Hegemony....

What it would need is an end of the basic economic problem of scarcity.
This will be a problem for a few decades, then it will rebalance, according to the demographic transition model. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition)

Don't ask me to elaborate though.

This will be a problem for a few decades, then it will rebalance, according to the theory of demographic transition. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition)

Don't ask me to elaborate though.
Perhaps even a few centuries.

The USA is not highly assimilative. We tend to celebrate foreign cultures that enter the US, not destroy them or force people to assimilate as you wish for them to do.

My culture is American? On what do you base this? What would make me culturally Scandanavian? Being able to speak Norwegian? Ver Der Gjorde Det. Being able to cook Scandanavian dishes? Been there, done that. Knowing my history and the history of my people? Been there, done that. Embracing the values passed down from my ancestors? Been there, done that.

You seem to have a lot of requirements for what makes a person Scandanavian, but you seem to loosen those requirements when sticking other people into other cultures. Samis aren't Scandanavian, according to you (even though they are more native than you are). People who move to Scandanavia cannot be Scandanavian, according to you, but people can move to America and become American. Scandanavian is in your blood according to you, but I am Scandanavian by blood and know, I'd guess, based on your responses in this thread, more about the culture of our ancestors than you do, but I'm not Scandanavian, according to you.

Forgive me if I don't accept your view of what makes a Scandanavian because you keep giving exceptions to it. When you come upwith a view that doesn't require you to look at nearly everything as an exception unless they are people who look like and were born where you were born then perhaps we can have a better debate.

Currently, we are required to ignore the fact that your 'theory' on monoculturalism doesn't work unless we accept a lot of things that are either ridiculous or patently false in order even moderately take this debate seriously.

I'm trying, Nordland. I really am, but you're going to have to bring more than this to the table, because right now it's hard to think you're not simply trying to upset people.

You are born and raised in USA, right? All my following statements are under that assumption... All your interactions have been with Americans. How many Scandinavian movies have you watched? For how long have you followed a scandinavian paper to get an idea about out issues? Your education is American. You lived there all your life. That's why you are american. Maybe if you'd live in Scandinavia for 10 years you'd be scandinavian, I dont know.
But just because your parents are scandinavian and you come to here for few summers doesnt make you scandinavian, I think....

What about my children? If I move to Norway and have children there will they be Scandanavian?

If you raise them here, yes, I think. Assuming your wife/gf is ethnically scandinavian...

If you raise them here, yes, I think. Assuming your wife/gf is ethnically scandinavian...

What if his wife is Muslim? And Scandinavian? And all of the childrens' interactions outside of the home are with Scandinavians? Excepting family reunions.

If you raise them here, yes, I think. Assuming your wife/gf is ethnically scandinavian...

Your views are a strange mix of xenophobia and racialist mythology.

You have trouble keeping them straight.

Every member of the public is part of public opinion. You said you were trying to change that in a small way. Here's an idea - if you are trying to contribute in a small way to changing public opinion *gasp* that would be TRYING to change public opinion.

You posted about being anti-immigration on an international public forum and you're upset because you got a reply from *gasp* international people.

Meanwhile, if you were trying to only talk to people from Scandanavia why did you get upset with Fass when he started posting his native tongue?

Few europeans speak one of our languages. I was wanting to talk people from Europe. But actually I dont mind talking non-europeans like you, as long as they dont insult. Actually debating with you is interesting...

Ok, well what if, orginally, my family came from Germany...moved to America..settled down here and I or my children decided to move back the old world (not that I would ever leave America), would that be acceptable?

We would of course learn the German language and embrace the German culture.

Would I be accepted?

I'm trying to find out what you would consider acceptable or not.

Yes, if you and your children(yours or adopted) and wife/gf/bf/husband are ethnically german and culturally german, then you are german, in my opinion...

Well, if we have time to wait until the whole world westernizes and then (because of this) start to drop in population, we have plently of time for a solution.

Perhaps DuPont will come up with a gel.

The question is do we want the whole world 'westernise'? It'd be too imperialistic. Developing economically isnt westernisation. Neither having more democracy and human rights. (these are not western but universal)

The question is do we want the whole world 'westernise'? It'd be too imperialistic. Developing economically isnt westernisation. Neither having more democracy and human rights. (these are not western but universal)
I meant in the economic sense, leading these nations to grow wealthier.

What if his wife is Muslim? And Scandinavian? And all of the childrens' interactions outside of the home are with Scandinavians? Excepting family reunions.

a muslim is never culturally scandinavian. Why dont they move to Florida in that case? nice beaches and weather and wealthy place. The kids can go to disney too...LOL is this rpg in nation states?

Yes, if you and your children(yours or adopted) and wife/gf/bf/husband are ethnically german and culturally german, then you are german, in my opinion...
I think ethnically is taking it a tad too far, but culturarly I will agree with. Immigrants should integrate well (even if they do retain their own culture in part) and contribute to the nation's well-being. The same with citizens of course.

I meant in the economic sense, leading these nations to grow wealthier.

Wealth doesnt always mean low birtrates. Look at UAE or Saudi Arabia...Low birthrates have cultural connections too. (ex: Freedom of women)

a muslim is never culturally scandinavian. Why dont they move to Florida in that case? nice beaches and weather and wealthy place. The kids can go to disney too...LOL is this rpg in nation states?

And the racism starts coming out again. *Headdesk*

And here I was thinking that we might be making a modicum of progress with you....

Yes, if you and your children(yours or adopted) and wife/gf/bf/husband are ethnically german and culturally german, then you are german, in my opinion...

define "ethnically german and culturally german"

We know: you can't be non-white. you can't be non-Christian. What else is "required" to be a valid german?

And the racism starts coming out again. *Headdesk*

And here I was thinking that we might be making a modicum of progress with you....
It is NOT racism. Perhaps a phobia of other religions, but do not mislabel.

I wonder where a dual-nationality, bilingual guy fits in... Culturally I belong to no culture, I guess. :D

Wealth doesnt always mean low birtrates. Look at UAE or Saudi Arabia...Low birthrates have cultural connections too. (ex: Freedom of women)
No, I mean the general population being wealthy.

a muslim is never culturally scandinavian. Why dont they move to Florida in that case? nice beaches and weather and wealthy place. The kids can go to disney too...LOL is this rpg in nation states?
Then what of Scandinavian atheists? I don't think religion plays into cultural integration.

Maybe someone should violate your anus...
SB, If you want to make a comment on the validity of another's comments, do it with some more explanation behind it then is present in this statement. Otherwise it not acceptable.
Fine. I'll say something different.

You should be dragged out into the street and shot. Just like Quisling.
We do not tolerate statements that suggest violence against other posters on this forum. Try something quite different than this next time you feel like responding with "something different".

Both of you should cool off and think about it a bit when responding.

~Erastide
Forum Moderator

It is NOT racism. Perhaps a phobia of other religions, but do not mislabel.

Saying that a Muslim can never be a Scandinavian?

That's like saying a Jew can never be an Englishman.

define "ethnically german and culturally german"

We know: you can't be non-white. you can't be non-Christian. What else is "required" to be a valid german?

you can be atheist and be german...

Saying that a Muslim can never be a Scandinavian?

That's like saying a Jew can never be an Englishman.

I agree with 2nd comment, yeah...

No, I mean the general population being wealthy.

UAE is generally wealthy. USA is also wealthy and their birthrate is almost replacement level...

Saying that a Muslim can never be a Scandinavian?

That's like saying a Jew can never be an Englishman.
And by consequence, that a Scandinavian cannot be Muslim. It is phobia of religions, not race.

Jew can mean both the religion and the ethnicity.

Then what of Scandinavian atheists? I don't think religion plays into cultural integration.

in atheists' case, no. In muslims' case, it plays many roles into cultural integration...

UAE is generally wealthy. USA is also wealthy and their birthrate is almost replacement level...
Compared to most Western nations? UAE is far behind. The state is extremely wealthy, but the people are not.

in atheists' case, no. In muslims' case, it plays many roles into cultural integration...
Depending on the individual's attitude.

I'm not anti-immigration. I'm anti-Illegal immigration.

If:
Saying that a Muslim can never be a Scandinavian?

That's like saying a Jew can never be an Englishman.
And:
I agree with 2nd comment, yeah...
And:
And by consequence, that a Scandinavian cannot be Muslim. It is phobia of religions, not race.

Jew can mean both the religion and the ethnicity.
Then...?

Also, what would one call a person who is afraid of a religion? An Islamophobe? Theophobe? A playa-hata?

If:

And:

And:

Then...?

Also, what would one call a person who is afraid of a religion? An Islamophobe? Theophobe? A playa-hata?

I'm ok with christian people as long as they arent fundemental...

Also, what would one call a person who is afraid of a religion? An Islamophobe? Theophobe? A playa-hata?
He is arguing that one may not become part of a specific culture if they do not embrace the said culture's religion or, alternatively, practise no religion at all. That is religious phobia, not racial. A religion excluding members of a certain race would be racist. I suppose theophobe would have to suffice.

He is arguing that one may not become part of a specific culture if they do not embrace the said culture's religion or, alternatively, practise no religion at all. That is religious phobia, not racial. I suppose theophobe would have to suffice.

Note to self: 20 April. No longer confined to Hitler's birthday. Hence forth, it shall be known as Theophobe Day. On this day, all people shall shy away from peoples not of their same religion. (Tea and crumpets served after.)

Also, what would one call a person who is afraid of a religion? An Islamophobe? Theophobe? A playa-hata?

I call them "bigots." Among other things.

you can be atheist and be german...

Well, I'm sure that is a relief to many.

So some religions qualify as german as some do not.

Only whites qualify as German.

Again, any other criteria?

Note to self: 20 April. No longer confined to Hitler's birthday. Hence forth, it shall be known as Theophobe Day. On this day, all people shall shy away from peoples not of their same religion. (Tea and crumpets served after.)

Muslims and jews can go to Canada. Beautiful, wealthy, progressive, and hugely under populated...Live there happily ever after lol :rolleyes:

He is arguing that one may not become part of a specific culture if they do not embrace the said culture's religion or, alternatively, practise no religion at all. That is religious phobia, not racial. A religion excluding members of a certain race would be racist. I suppose theophobe would have to suffice.

NAh, he's a bigger biggot than that. Race is also a factor.

Xenophobe.

Muslims and jews can go to Canada. Beautiful, wealthy, progressive, and hugely under populated...Live there happily ever after lol :rolleyes:

Well. There's the Jewish thing.

That would make you a theophobe, xenophobe, and a racist.

Muslims and jews can go to Canada. Beautiful, wealthy, progressive, and hugely under populated...Live there happily ever after lol :rolleyes:

It's so nice to know that if they started persecuting jews in Germany again and a bunch of Jewish immigrants showed up, you would gladly tell them to get the fuck out of your beloved country.

You say "progressive" like it's a bad thing, but what you my friend are displaying is "regressive." Like maybe you'd be happier living in 1941.

Muslims and jews can go to Canada. Beautiful, wealthy, progressive, and hugely under populated...Live there happily ever after lol :rolleyes:

Oh great. Now you've expanded your hatred to include anti-semitism.

You must be so proud.

Well. There's the Jewish thing.

That would make you a theophobe, xenophobe, and a racist.
Jewish can mean both the religion and the race. Although I suppose the words are suitable for him.

a muslim is never culturally scandinavian. Why dont they move to Florida in that case? nice beaches and weather and wealthy place. The kids can go to disney too...LOL is this rpg in nation states?


Not NEVER, but from what I have read/seen it seems usually muslims dont culturally become Scandanvian. That might be subject to change though.


NO! Not Florida!...I live here!:p

Jewish can mean both the religion and the race. Although I suppose the words are suitable for him.

There is no race of Jews unless you mean Israelis. In which case the applicalbe prejudice is nationalism.

Yes, if you and your children(yours or adopted) and wife/gf/bf/husband are ethnically german and culturally german, then you are german, in my opinion...

Ok...so now what if I told you I am not Christian.

I'm an American marrying either an American or a German girl and living in Germany. Then once we got citizenship, we have kids in Germany.

Would you consider us (my WHOLE family) REAL Germans?

There is no race of Jews unless you mean Israelis. In which case the applicalbe prejudice is nationalism.

As you yourself appear to recognize, Isreal is a nation, not a race.

But it matters not to the question of whether the OP (and perhaps some others) are racist.

I agree with 2nd comment, yeah...

What about the former English Prime Minister Ben Disraeli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Disraeli%2C_1st_Earl_of_Beaconsfield)?

Question.....why do you say that a Jew could never be an Englishman?

Jews play a VERY prominent role in the Western world, both in American AND Europe.

An English Jew is just as European as you.

But I'd love to hear your reason as to why he wouldnt be.

Muslims and jews can go to Canada. Beautiful, wealthy, progressive, and hugely under populated...Live there happily ever after lol :rolleyes:

Why would Muslims and Jews go to Canada?

Jews (Ashkenazi) are European....atlough some who have left Europe have become Israeli, American ect...

There is no race of Jews unless you mean Israelis. In which case the applicalbe prejudice is nationalism.
I have had this argument before. Some Jews are a race due to the fact that they bred only between themselves for a prolonged time.

Why would Muslims and Jews go to Canada?

Jews (Ashkenazi) are European....atlough some who have left Europe have become Israeli, American ect...
This thread might actually beat the infamous I Love America! thread in terms of the number of posts.

To Atlantian islands, I have no idea why I'm quoting you:headbang:

Why would Muslims and Jews go to Canada?

Jews (Ashkenazi) are European....atlough some who have left Europe have become Israeli, American ect...
He is thinking in terms of wealth.

There is no race of Jews unless you mean Israelis. In which case the applicalbe prejudice is nationalism.

The Hebrews were the "race" that you are probably looking for.

Israelis now a days are hardly a race. They can range from immigrants from America, Western Europe, Eastern Europe, former Soviet Union, or the arab countries.

So if you didnt like Israelis you wouldnt be racist...you'd be...I dunno a kike hater? :p I dunno I couldnt think of any other negative words...maybe someone else could come up with the word for being anti Israeli.

He is thinking in terms of wealth.

In wealth?:confused:

I must have missed something.

In wealth?:confused:

I must have missed something.
Canada is rich and tolerant. That is why people would choose to go there, according to him.

Canada is rich and tolerant. That is why people would choose to go there, according to him.

Oh.

Canada is rich and tolerant. That is why people would choose to go there, according to him.

And people in Norway are destitute and intolerant?

And people in Norway are destitute and intolerant?
Didn't notice the "according to him?" bit? In any case, Canada is a young, multicultural nation. Norway far less so.

Didn't notice the "according to him?" bit? In any case, Canada is a young, multicultural nation. Norway far less so.

I meant, according to him. I thought it was implied....

I meant, according to him. I thought it was implied....
Either way, I answered your question.

Basically preserving your ethnicity/culture...Complex, needs lots of thinking which I dont...

I used to be a Christian.

Not strictly on topic, I know... but bear with me.

There were some aspects of my religion that made no sense, seemed to contradict, or that just felt uncomfortable, you know?

Complaining about it didn't help. Arguing about it didn't help. Other people didn't really CARE about my confusions, and they took my questions as attacks on them.

In the end, I sat down with the scripture, and I read it. I read it all. I read it a lot. Then I read ABOUT it. I read books 'about' christianity, and about other religions. Did you know that the science fiction author Asimov wrote a 'concordance' for the bible? A lot of people don't... like I said... I read A LOT.

In the end - I decided I didn't 'believe' any more. I lost my religion. Now, I'm an Atheist.

But my position is pretty certain. I know WHY I am an Atheist. My 'opinion' is worth so much more (on the subject of my Atheism, I mean) BECAUSE I have researched the matter.

It really cannot do anything but help.

Maybe research and deep thinking will reinforce your choice - and you'll have sceintific or logical arguments for WHY your choice is right.

Maybe research and deep thought will lead you to a DIFFERENT choice, and you'll have arguments for why THAT choice is right, too.


The problem is - if all you are doing is reciting the same words we've heard before, if all you are doing is paying lip-service to a prejudice - then those aren't YOUR words... not YOUR thoughts.

I guess the question is - do you wish to go through life with the words of OTHER men, on your lips?

You may also think what good reasons are there for panda's existance? I still hope and wish to conserve them...All humans are immigrant because we evolved in africa. Use commen sense on time. Dont expect me to say in detail why sky is blue...

The Panda doesn't demand that I exclude tarsiers.

Immigration countries: countries in Americas, Aust&Nz, South Africa...

Non-immigration ones: Europe, moslty asia and mostly africa...

Inter-immigration isnt really that important. Like germans moving to switzerland. And inter immigration isnt that much anyways. No mass german movement to switzerland for example...

So, is the UK 'immigration' or not?

Boosting its own population would also help. That is the core issue. Immigrants might help temporarily solve the issue, but unless Western nations focus on what its true source is, it will recur. Scandinavia, as with other nations, does not need more immigrants. What it needs is to start finding ways to improve its birth rates. For Russia, this is vital. Nations that are now westernising will one day realise this too.

By 'true source', I assume you mean 'capitalism'?

By 'true source', I assume you mean 'capitalism'?
Any means of getting richer. Wealthier populations tend to face the problems of ageing populations and falling birthrates. Essentially, the problem is that the aged are unable to provide for/support themselves, and thus are a burden on the economy.

a muslim is never culturally scandinavian. Why dont they move to Florida in that case? nice beaches and weather and wealthy place. The kids can go to disney too...LOL is this rpg in nation states?

So - now 'scandinavian' is a religion?

I'm ok with christian people as long as they arent fundemental...

How the hell is Scandinavian (in any way) connected to Christianity?

You are born and raised in USA, right? All my following statements are under that assumption... All your interactions have been with Americans. How many Scandinavian movies have you watched? For how long have you followed a scandinavian paper to get an idea about out issues? Your education is American. You lived there all your life. That's why you are american. Maybe if you'd live in Scandinavia for 10 years you'd be scandinavian, I dont know.
But just because your parents are scandinavian and you come to here for few summers doesnt make you scandinavian, I think....

That's all fairly accurate. I won't bother correcting you on the minor points. So we've established that it's not simply knowing the culture and it's not the genetics because I have both of those. First, I must live in the right location for a certain amount of time.

So it's a requirement that one live in Scandinavia, not that they learn the culture. I see. So culture not only requires one to be genetically suitable as you claimed earlier in the thread, but you are also required to be in a certain location. I find this very interesting. What is it about the magical Scandinavia that makes my culture finally blossom? It's obviously not powerful enough to make it blossom in people who don't have the right genetics, according to you, so it can't be too powerful, now can it?

Few europeans speak one of our languages. I was wanting to talk people from Europe. But actually I dont mind talking non-europeans like you, as long as they dont insult. Actually debating with you is interesting...

What is so special about other Europeans that makes them worth talking to when Americans are not? (For the record, many of the people in this thread are Europeans, GnI, Fass, for example and some are Scandinavian, such as Fass). If being ethnically and culturally pure is so important than why is that only non-European immigration matter when we are talking about the ethnic and culture changes over the last millenia? Basically, your argument seems to fall apart on the fact that you give Europeans a pass but not Americans or Australians.

If you raise them here, yes, I think. Assuming your wife/gf is ethnically scandinavian...

And you wonder why people find racism in your posts. You are talking not just about cultural purity but racial purity as well.

a muslim is never culturally scandinavian. Why dont they move to Florida in that case? nice beaches and weather and wealthy place. The kids can go to disney too...LOL is this rpg in nation states?

Wait... why? Scandinavians sometimes become Muslims. I think they would beg to differ with your rather generalized view of what is and is not 'Scandinavian'. It's interesting how you have been progressively denying Scandinavians their culture. Samis can't be Scandinavian (even though they were in Scandanavia first). People with the wrong genetics cannot be Scandanavian. Muslims cannot be Scandinavian. Who else can't be Scandinavian?

you can be atheist and be german...

So you just can't be Muslim? Why not Muslim? This should be good.

Wait... why? Scandinavians sometimes become Muslims. I think they would beg to differ with your rather generalized view of what is and is not 'Scandinavian'. It's interesting how you have been progressively denying Scandinavians their culture. Samis can't be Scandinavian (even though they were in Scandanavia first). People with the wrong genetics cannot be Scandanavian. Muslims cannot be Scandinavian. Who else can't be Scandinavian?

Jews, according to him.

Jews, according to him.

I wonder if you could be a Scandinavian Hindu... :p

What is so special about other Europeans that makes them worth talking to when Americans are not? (For the record, many of the people in this thread are Europeans, GnI, Fass, for example and some are Scandinavian, such as Fass). If being ethnically and culturally pure is so important than why is that only non-European immigration matter when we are talking about the ethnic and culture changes over the last millenia? Basically, your argument seems to fall apart on the fact that you give Europeans a pass but not Americans or Australians.

Because USA, Australia, etc...They are already immigration societies. And white people arent native to there anyways. Besides USA is a lost case. It is considered racism there I guess to even debate illegal immigration. Being obsessively PC is a requirement there I guess. And whites will lose their majority within the 1st half of this century, according to your goverment statistics anyways. If americans are ready for such a huge change in such a short time, they are a lost case about being told conserving their society...

And you wonder why people find racism in your posts. You are talking not just about cultural purity but racial purity as well.

It's not racial. I'd be against large number of white italians moving here too. Some are ok but not a large number. But this is just an example, such a thing would never happen as they'd have to be crazy to leave a country like italy to move here. It's a spectrum. Swedes are definately more compatible than italians. And italians are more compatible than americans. And americans are much more compatible then muslims...
See, as an american who were raised in the 'melting pot', such nationalist comments are very foreign to you. And that's why you guys always equate anti-immigrant with racism. But it's not on the basis of skin colour...

Swedes are definately more compatible than italians. And italians are more compatible than americans. And americans are much more compatible then muslims...

Are you now claiming that Swedes, Italians and Americans can't be Muslims?

Are you now claiming that Swedes, Italians and Americans can't be Muslims?

When they become muslims, they cease to be Swedish/Italian/American/etc. They swear allegiance only to allah.

Oh, and; multiculturalism at work:

http://www.upprop.net/pressrelease.php?lang=eng

When they become muslims, they cease to be Swedish/Italian/American/etc. They swear allegiance only to allah.

Really? I wasn't aware that Swedes or Italians had to pledge allegiance to their nation anyhow. Is the same not true of all religions then?

Terrorists recruiting white muslims:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060417/ap_on_re_eu/terror_recruiting_white_muslims_lh1

Oh, so it isn't a racial issue?

Terrorists recruiting white muslims:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060417/ap_on_re_eu/terror_recruiting_white_muslims_lh1

Oh, so it isn't a racial issue?

I may not be following your reasoning here, but that would seem to suggest to me that the problem isn't a racial one, but people like Ny Nordland are trying to address it with racially motivated solutions.

Really? I wasn't aware that Swedes or Italians had to pledge allegiance to their nation anyhow. Is the same not true of all religions then?

It's called a citizenship pledge. Pretty much every nation has one. And yes, all people of all religion should do it. The muslims are the only ones who have gone out of the way to say that they won't.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2005/s1444603.htm
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,18809142%255E25717,00.html

besides me...just curious

I am anti-illegal immigration. I have no problem with immigration but we have a process and laws which have to be followed. Follow the rules and I have no problem with it, come in illegally and you get sent back.

It's called a citizenship pledge. Pretty much every nation has one. And yes, all people of all religion should do it.

Unless I am very much mistaken those born as Italians or Swedes are not required to pledge allegiance. Certainly as a citizen of the UK I have never been required to pledge allegiance to anything.

The muslims are the only ones who have gone out of the way to say that they won't.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2005/s1444603.htm
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,18809142%255E25717,00.html


...apart from the Christians.
http://www.quaker.org/visalia/subpages/Pledge.htm

Are you now claiming that Swedes, Italians and Americans can't be Muslims?

I was talking about ethnic swedes, ethnic italians and white americans. There'd be very few muslims in this group....
When I talk about muslims, I'm talking about non-ethnic-european muslims...

Unless I am very much mistaken those born as Italians or Swedes are not required to pledge allegiance. Certainly as a citizen of the UK I have never been required to pledge allegiance to anything.

That explains a lot.

...apart from the Christians.
http://www.quaker.org/visalia/subpages/Pledge.htm

Yes, the Quakers. They're truly a cornerstone of human society.

I was talking about ethnic swedes, ethnic italians and white americans. There'd be very few muslims in this group....
When I talk about muslims, I'm talking about non-ethnic-european muslims...

How does one define an ethnic Swede or Italian? Is it something that can be detected by genetic testing?

Why not state 'non-ethnic-European Muslims' then, instead of just bveing sloppy all the time? Heck, even if you coined an initialism like NEEM, everything would be clearer.

How does one define an ethnic Swede or Italian? Is it something that can be detected by genetic testing?

Why not state 'non-ethnic-European Muslims' then, instead of just bveing sloppy all the time? Heck, even if you coined an initialism like NEEM, everything would be clearer.

No genetic testing required...You can usually tell by looking...

That explains a lot.
You were never required to pledge allegiance to Australia either. ;)

Hell, I am an immigrant and I certainly never did.

No genetic testing required...You can usually tell by looking...
You can tell a Swede from a Norwegian and an Italian from a Spaniard...just by looking?

How about a Greek from a Turk?

That explains a lot.

*raised eyebrow*

Your point being?



Yes, the Quakers. They're truly a cornerstone of human society.

Yup, they were responsible for the major companies that produced the Industrial Revolution, the operation of the first railways, the founding of Barcalys and Lloyds banks, they have received the Nobel Peace Prize more than once, and still operate such companies as Cadburys-Schweppes. Pretty much major movers and shakers when it comes to creating the modern world, to say nothing of their political influence - heck, you've even had a Quaker president in the US.


Are you claiming that those Muslim clerics who recognise only Sharia law are representative of all Muslims?

You can tell a Swede from a Norwegian and an Italian from a Spaniard...just by looking?

How about a Greek from a Turk?

That post is really close to my kind of thinking. You grouped the most compatible ones together....

No genetic testing required...You can usually tell by looking...

Are their eyes too close together, or do they just kick the ball with the wrong foot?

That post is really close to my kind of thinking. You grouped the most compatible ones together....
The Greeks and the Turks are "compatible"? I suggest you ask them first.

You were never required to pledge allegiance to Australia either. ;)

Hell, I am an immigrant and I certainly never did.

You have to when you get naturalised. Although it should probably be compulsory for anybody who wants to live here. I think even visitors and tourists should take a short oath to uphold the laws and respect the culture, customs and values.

You have to when you get naturalised. Although it should probably be compulsory for anybody who wants to live here. I think even visitors and tourists should take a short oath to uphold the laws and respect the culture, customs and values.
And you reckon those tourist-thieves will keep their word?

Anyways, I don't think I'll get naturalised any time soon. If I do, I don't think I'll be able to keep a straight face during the ceremony. I think I should tape it and send it to you - should be quite a spectacle.

The Greeks and the Turks are "compatible"? I suggest you ask them first.

Surely a greek and turk is more compatible then a greek and a swede. That doesnt mean greeks&turks are close. You gave the names of 6 nationalities there and you grouped the closest ones together. This means within all those PC, you do recognize some differences which PC people always deny. (ex: we are all same)

And you reckon those tourist-thieves will keep their word?

Well, we can always punish them.

Anyways, I don't think I'll get naturalised any time soon. If I do, I don't think I'll be able to keep a straight face during the ceremony. I think I should tape it and send it to you - should be quite a spectacle.

Tape me? Why would I be getting naturalised?

...you do recognize some differences which PC people always deny. (ex: we are all same)
No, "PC people" recognise the differences, but they refuse to attach value judgements to them. And importantly, "PC people" prefer to judge individuals by their own actions, rather than their skin colour.

Surely a greek and turk is more compatible then a greek and a swede. That doesnt mean greeks&turks are close. You gave the names of 6 nationalities there and you grouped the closest ones together. This means within all those PC, you do recognize some differences which PC people always deny. (ex: we are all same)

Ethnically, they might be similar. But they really hate each other. So, if they don't get along great, why would Europeans more north do any better?

Well, we can always punish them.
Well, you do. No need for official ceremonies making sure that everyone always feels like a foreigner though.

No, "PC people" recognise the differences, but they refuse to attach value judgements to them. And importantly, "PC people" prefer to judge individuals by their own actions, rather than their skin colour.

PC people only judge people by their actions if they're white. Or Israeli. Besides that, it's because they're confused, or they had a hard life, or shit like that...

Im all for a white-australia shouldnt have removed the damn policy...

Well, you do. No need for official ceremonies making sure that everyone always feels like a foreigner though.

We want to make them feel like guests. Which they are.

No, "PC people" recognise the differences, but they refuse to attach value judgements to them. And importantly, "PC people" prefer to judge individuals by their own actions, rather than their skin colour.

I disagree. Many "PC People" think all humans are same. They think Ethnicities and nations are fake concepts. They think skin colour is the only difference...

I disagree. Many "PC People" think all humans are same. Ethnicities and nations are fake concepts.

That's what they say, but it's not how they act. "Reverse" racism, my friend.

I think even visitors and tourists should take a short oath to uphold the laws and respect the culture, customs and values.
How ridiculous are you becoming next? What good would such a oath be? Do i get charged with perjury if i make fun of australians? If not, its useless. If there is a charge, where is the freedom of expression, a right upheld in Australia iirc?
What would be disrespectful, anyway? And what is australian culture?

PC people only judge people by their actions if they're white. Or Israeli. Besides that, it's because they're confused, or they had a hard life, or shit like that...
Well, this is where we get into conspiracy theories.

I disagree. Many "PC People" think all humans are same. They think Ethnicities and nations are fake concepts. They think skin colour is the only difference...
Which is what I was saying...you seem to make skin colour the only criterion for whether or not people fit together.

At any rate, whatever you believe political correctness to be, denial of nations is not one of its aspects.

And what is so complicated to understand about being able to say that ethnic groups have differences, but these are superficial and make no difference to the things that really matter?

Im all for a white-australia shouldnt have removed the damn policy...

The one about needing a criminal record to get in?