NationStates Jolt Archive

having trouble finding the F9F cougar and the Vampire III on the new list. did they get deleted somehow, and if so is it because they are out of date? (specific issues with the vampire since half my airforce is that fighter)

fixed

perhaps i am mistaken but I believe the vampire III previously had far better stats--something in the range of air combat 7 and carrier capablity. If i am wrong, not a problem, but i hope it is legal to change my 1946 builds then (I built vampire IIIs for my carrier and could just say i did something else for the same cost instead)

perhaps i am mistaken but I believe the vampire III previously had far better stats--something in the range of air combat 7 and carrier capablity. If i am wrong, not a problem, but i hope it is legal to change my 1946 builds then (I built vampire IIIs for my carrier and could just say i did something else for the same cost instead)

the US is willing to provide the new F11F Tiger, which is mach 1 capable

the US is willing to provide the new F11F Tiger, which is mach 1 capable

i feel like I am going around in circles. Now I have trouble finding the stats for that one on the front page. (assuming then it is legal to say i just built tigers instead?)

i feel like I am going around in circles. Now I have trouble finding the stats for that one on the front page. (assuming then it is legal to say i just built tigers instead?)

its legal, and I reposted it. Also added the Russian Su5

By the way, what effect will the introduction of the AK-47 have on the world?

By the way, what effect will the introduction of the AK-47 have on the world?

not much, as we are dealing with units not individuals or small groups

not much, as we are dealing with units not individuals or small groups

I see.

Will it become the freedom-fighter/terrorists weapon of choice, though? I mean, soon after the real AK-47 was released by the Soviets, it pretty much flooded the world, and you could see people using them as early as the Korean War (although it wasn't used much; they still used old soviet weapons, such as the ppSH.)

I see.

Will it become the freedom-fighter/terrorists weapon of choice, though? I mean, soon after the real AK-47 was released by the Soviets, it pretty much flooded the world, and you could see people using them as early as the Korean War (although it wasn't used much; they still used old soviet weapons, such as the ppSH.)

yes, pretty much everybody's infantry at this point is using submachine guns, automatic rifles or assault rifles.. so it evens out.

yes, pretty much everybody's infantry at this point is using submachine guns, automatic rifles or assault rifles.. so it evens out.

EEeeeeexcceeleeeentt...

And I start making them next year, right?

*prepares to flood the global market with AK's*

EEeeeeexcceeleeeentt...

And I start making them next year, right?

*prepares to flood the global market with AK's*

Haha, with the most prolific assault rifle within India's grasp the SCT will rule the world!!!!

Now all we need is Mi-24 Hinds.....

*Goes back to the laborotory*

Haha, with the most prolific assault rifle within India's grasp the SCT will rule the world!!!!

Now all we need is Mi-24 Hinds.....

*Goes back to the laborotory*

And Sweet Lady Scud Missile.

Yes but you'll not be able to surpass good old British MBTs such as the Centurion (especially when upgunned with the Royal Ordnance 105mm L7 main gun, which I hope to have in production by 1953).

Unles you manage to grab the soviet T-55 tank, so good it remained in production until 1981...

When the SU gavbe me a fighter-bomber wing, was the the Tupolev bomber?

I'd imagine the Tu-14 is a little better than that...

Anyways, the AK-47 is garbage, take it all you want. I'd rather have an AKM or some such. Besides M16, while it does jam quite a bit, will actually hit something. Tanks on the other hand... wtf am I going to do... Porsche can't make tanks anymore, hes too useless.

I'd imagine the Tu-14 is a little better than that...

Anyways, the AK-47 is garbage, take it all you want. I'd rather have an AKM or some such. Besides M16, while it does jam quite a bit, will actually hit something. Tanks on the other hand... wtf am I going to do... Porsche can't make tanks anymore, hes too useless.

You could work with Chinese engineers as they have Tiger II's and Panther G's. What if Colombia helped China to build Tiger III's or go as far as Tiger X's by 1990? Of course, all tank tech will be shared equally between Colombia and China, as we have done a similiar deal a long while ago in which China helped build Colombian aircraft plants and the old old old C-9 Yang fighters.

What say you?

perhaps... but Tigers and Panthers are quite unnecessary these days... I figure we can just produce a similar version of the T55, but of course better.

perhaps... but Tigers and Panthers are quite unnecessary these days... I figure we can just produce a similar version of the T55, but of course better.

Actually thats the beauty of it. We could easily "steal" T-series tank stats and design, then blend them with the best of the Tigers and Panthers. Then call them Tiger III's or Panther II's.

Simply because there have never been RL Tiger III's or Panther II's.

the US will be happy to sell Colombia M46s, and then M47s, M48s, and then M60s and perhaps even the M1 eventually.

(chuckle)

seriously though, I suggest that Colombia build some of the designs that didn't get accepted by the British or Americans... Vickers tanks, Cadallic Gage, others

feel free to build the M551 Sheridan too (The US Army in this timeline isn't going to buy them)

I'd imagine the Tu-14 is a little better than that...

Anyways, the AK-47 is garbage, take it all you want. I'd rather have an AKM or some such. Besides M16, while it does jam quite a bit, will actually hit something. Tanks on the other hand... wtf am I going to do... Porsche can't make tanks anymore, hes too useless.

Garbage? What weed have you been smoking? The AK was far superior even to the M-16 in it's early days, where U.S. soldiers would use enemy Ak's instead of their faulty rifles (of course, then there's the problem that the AK's made a distinct sound, so when a jumpy private in the middle of the jungle hears the "enemy", he tends to fire off a bunch of bullets). Besides, when I have the AK-47, that means I'll also be able to produce it's superior descendents.

Yes but you'll not be able to surpass good old British MBTs such as the Centurion (especially when upgunned with the Royal Ordnance 105mm L7 main gun, which I hope to have in production by 1953).

Unles you manage to grab the soviet T-55 tank, so good it remained in production until 1981...


I do hope you were joking about the T-55. It had a smaller gun and cramped space and lost against just about any tank it went against

The T-55 wasn't too bad, it had a fairly high-velocity gun with a highly mobile chassis, a low silhouette, and exceptional long-range endurance. The main gun had bi-planar stabilisation as well instead of just vertical stabilisers.

Though I agree that it was cramped and this led to a slower rate of fire, but it's silhouette was 1 metre lower than an M60. Plus the main gun wasn't capable of depressing too much (like many soviet vehicles), and the ammo and fuel were comparitively vulnerable compared to western tanks.

All in all though it was a fairly decent vehicle that had a long shelf life and is still used in many poorer countries.

The AK-47 is nothing but a noise maker, have fun with that. Or perhaps you don't realize that the AK-47 was actually a failure and the real gun that everyone uses is actually an AKM and you don't really know what you're talking about?

And I would be happy to take the M551.. I rather like the 155mm gun and its airdroppable ability, and its exceptional performance in cities.

If you sell me the M1.. it'd be a close competition between that or an T-80U/UM1/UM2 or T-90M or T-95.

Perhaps Colombia will be the country to introduce the Black Eagle and the T-95...

The AK-47 is nothing but a noise maker, have fun with that. Or perhaps you don't realize that the AK-47 was actually a failure and the real gun that everyone uses is actually an AKM and you don't really know what you're talking about?

And I would be happy to take the M551.. I rather like the 155mm gun and its airdroppable ability, and its exceptional performance in cities.

If you sell me the M1.. it'd be a close competition between that or an T-80U/UM1/UM2 or T-90M or T-95.

Perhaps Colombia will be the country to introduce the Black Eagle and the T-95...

How could the Viet Cong use the AK-47 in 1965?

that made no sense.

No it didn't. That and all you need are German rifles anyways :)

The AK-47 is nothing but a noise maker, have fun with that. Or perhaps you don't realize that the AK-47 was actually a failure and the real gun that everyone uses is actually an AKM and you don't really know what you're talking about? .

the AK47 is an excellent weapon for what is designed for... an assault rifle for inadequately trained infantry for close range combat. Its durable as hell, forgiving to bad treatment, and cheap. It is widely considered a classic weapon by many, many sources.

Still, it isn't the only game in town. The Belgians make the excellent FN FAL, the American M14 and M16 (when treated properly) are excellent, and for that matter the Israelis invent the Galil etc.

By the way, Argentina (Middle Snu), as you have the Zionists, you get anything the Israelis invent (Merkava tanks, Galil assault rifles, Kfir fighters, several precession guided weapons). Of course, these don't show up until the 1970s.

Galil wasn't really popular with the IDF if you've ever talked to any of them... (I goto a school that has a lot of Israeli immigrants that have served in the IDF)

BUT, I think I will be trying to get the FN FAL or M14..

Galil wasn't really popular with the IDF if you've ever talked to any of them... (I goto a school that has a lot of Israeli immigrants that have served in the IDF)

BUT, I think I will be trying to get the FN FAL or M14..

does mean the Argentina gets the UZI beginning 1960 though

indeed it does.

Whose the designer behind the Mi-28N? Do you happen to know off the top of your head, and whats the chances Colombia could persuade him...

Partially state owned company Han Taik Aerospace has begun design research into Helicopters.
The design for a new helicopter the Ht-1 'Jin' has been proposed


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/lazyjim/Ht-1.jpg

General characteristics

* Crew: one
* Capacity: 2 passengers or 255 kg (561 lb) of cargo
* Length: 12.09 m (39 ft 8 in)
* Main rotor diameter: 14.35 m (47 ft 1 in)
* Height: 3.30 m (10 ft 10 in)
* Main rotor area: 161.7 m² (1,740 ft²)
* Empty: 1,700 kg (3,740 lb)
* Loaded: 2,140 kg (4,708 lb)
* Maximum takeoff: 2,330 kg (5,126 lb)
* Powerplant: 1x radialpiston engine, 429 kW (575 hp)


Performance

* Maximum speed: 185 km/h (115 mph)
* Range: 430 km (268 miles)
* Service ceiling: 3,500 m (11,480 ft)
* Rate of climb: 318 m/min (1,043 ft/min)
* Main rotor loading: 13 kg/m² (3 lb/ft²)
* Power/Mass: 0.20 kW/kg (0.12 hp/lb)

[Based off the Mil-1]

Alright, are my fighters Saab 19's or Tu-somethings?

Also, who owns Beriev?

Also, who owns Beriev?

Beriev...

I have only heard of a few if their designs, weren't they mostly Search and Rescue types and a few military designs for ASW warfare? As a company I belive that boat planes were their speciality (hence SAR and ASW designs).

Beriev...

I have only heard of a few if their designs, weren't they mostly Search and Rescue types and a few military designs for ASW warfare? As a company I belive that boat planes were their speciality (hence SAR and ASW designs).

Beriev would be designing civil aircraft at the moment.. a lot of lakes in Russia. They are still in Russia.

Alright, are my fighters Saab 19's or Tu-somethings?

Also, who owns Beriev?


The Saab 19's is a fighter bomber, the Tu series are all straight bombers, you got the Saab.

It's the 29 actually, just checked, but OK.


Yes Beriev is ASW/Seaplanes stuff, but I was just flipping through one of my books and thought I'd ask, since the Be-6 (Tchaika maybe?) would be coming out around this time. Although maybe they'll never emerge in this history.

1946 -- 5 years after the US/Pact nuclear exchange.

The US has detonated weapons as large as 225 kilotons (boosted weapon) and as small as 1 kiloton. US testing is occuring in the Pacific (Bikini, Eniwetok) and in Nevada (northwest of Los Vegas)

The Scandic Union has just detonated a 15 kiloton weapon.

Soon after, the local governments in Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Germany detect noticable levels of radioactive fallout (ooc cancer death rate will increase slightly). Some complaints will be made. Substantial pressure will be exerted to conduct any further tests elsewhere.

1946 -- 5 years after the US/Pact nuclear exchange.

The US has detonated weapons as large as 225 kilotons (boosted weapon) and as small as 1 kiloton. US testing is occuring in the Pacific (Bikini, Eniwetok) and in Nevada (northwest of Los Vegas)

The Scandic Union has just detonated a 15 kiloton weapon.

Soon after, the local governments in Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Germany detect noticable levels of radioactive fallout (ooc cancer death rate will increase slightly). Some complaints will be made. Substantial pressure will be exerted to conduct any further tests elsewhere.

What about underground testing?

Speaking of which, I have to make my own nuclear program. After all, I will get A.Q. Khan eventually :).

Lightning Star go to the SCT thread!!

What about underground testing?

5 years down the road

Palestine declares that a state of war exists between it and Syria after border skirmishes occor along the border with Lebanon and the Golan Heights.

For Sweden the Saab 35 Draken and the Saab 32 Lansen should be coming out now. ALso from Tupolev the Tu-95

http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/text/32lansen.htm

http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/text/35draken.htm


http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/tu-95.htm

I actually have a book of aircraft since WWII listed by manufacturer. I think I'll try and sort out what manufacturers will build what when. Does the 5 years go from development or service entry?

Is the book called Attack And Interceptor Jets by Michael Sharpe?

I actually have a book of aircraft since WWII listed by manufacturer. I think I'll try and sort out what manufacturers will build what when. Does the 5 years go from development or service entry?

development plus 1 year... then it goes on the military thread and you can buy it as a unit

For Sweden the Saab 35 Draken and the Saab 32 Lansen should be coming out now. ALso from Tupolev the Tu-95

http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/text/32lansen.htm

http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/text/35draken.htm


http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/tu-95.htm

availability dates:
Saab 32 in 1948, Saab 35 and the Bear are 1950

The Bear is one of my favorite aircraft ever built... such a beautiful aircraft

Indeed it is, I hope it'll get a good rating, lol.

Is it possible to improve the RADAR system on it, when it will eventually become the AWACs version? It was pretty crappy...

I was reading up on Heckler and Koch's stuff and was wondering if it would be possible, considering the fact that Germany is still one of the strongest nation in Europe and that it hasn't been divided, if some of the stuff, namely the G3 would come out earlier than in RL (1959), maybe like 7-10 years earlier instead of 5 years?

More of a technicality. That and the fact that my standard weapon, I think, would still be the K98.

Is the book called Attack And Interceptor Jets by Michael Sharpe?
I might have that one as well, but the one I was thinking of was called "Combat Aircraft Since 1945" I've picked up a bunch of those kind of books since joining NS. Either way, the late 40's and early 50's are Britain's time to shine in the aerospace world. IMO Russia and the US start to dominate afterwards, especially in the Vietnam era. US, Dassault, and various Russian companies will do well, although the dispersal of Soviet producers will give America a dominant position for some time (although I must say if the American firms were similarly dispersed it would make things interesting)

Not to say that little powers will be forgotten. Germany Italy, Egypt, Spain, Switzerland, Japan, Yugoslavia, India, and Canada will all develop indigenous designs before 1960, in addition to anything gained in the postwar transfer of aerospace firms.

Even France and Russia will get a some stuff, most likely. I don't think France lost Breguet or Sud-Ouest, and I believe Russia kept Beriev (that one I know for sure), Myasichshev, Kavochkin, or Yakolev.

Russia also has Sukhoi

Parthini']I was reading up on Heckler and Koch's stuff and was wondering if it would be possible, considering the fact that Germany is still one of the strongest nation in Europe and that it hasn't been divided, if some of the stuff, namely the G3 would come out earlier than in RL (1959), maybe like 7-10 years earlier instead of 5 years?

More of a technicality. That and the fact that my standard weapon, I think, would still be the K98.

bump for response

I might have that one as well, but the one I was thinking of was called "Combat Aircraft Since 1945" I've picked up a bunch of those kind of books since joining NS. Either way, the late 40's and early 50's are Britain's time to shine in the aerospace world. IMO Russia and the US start to dominate afterwards, especially in the Vietnam era. US, Dassault, and various Russian companies will do well, although the dispersal of Soviet producers will give America a dominant position for some time (although I must say if the American firms were similarly dispersed it would make things interesting)

Not to say that little powers will be forgotten. Germany Italy, Egypt, Spain, Switzerland, Japan, Yugoslavia, India, and Canada will all develop indigenous designs before 1960, in addition to anything gained in the postwar transfer of aerospace firms.

Even France and Russia will get a some stuff, most likely. I don't think France lost Breguet or Sud-Ouest, and I believe Russia kept Beriev (that one I know for sure), Myasichshev, Kavochkin, or Yakolev.

OOC: I have that book. It'd be nice if the SCT could get its mitts on the Avro Arrow or the TSR 2, I'll say that.

You could just make generics. Thats all China will make domestically until AIDC makes the Ching-Kuo (they did get Taiwan from Japan right?)

Parthini']bump for response

stick to the principal rules regarding weapons

Nuclear Weapons

dates of historical developments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_explosion
subtract 5 years

The Union and United States both used Little Boy type fission weapons during the Third Great War. Since that time, the US has developed the Fat Man type weapon, and developed 'boosted' fission bombs (400 kiloton weapons). At this time, it takes a very large aircraft to carry a boosted weapon (B47 size, which can carry one) or at least a twin engined bomber (AJ1 or bigger) to carry a Little Boy type (20 kiloton) bomb.

The US conducted the Bikini tests in 1944 in this timeline.

To build atomic weapons:
You must spend 24 points a year for 3 years to develop the needed infrastructure (seperation plants, reactors, fuel production facilities) and technology to actually build the bombs. .

You get a working bomb midway through the third year. These weapons are 20 kilotons and can only be carried by a large bomber. 6 points a year retains an operational program allowing for building 12 bombs a year

To build boosted fission bombs, another 24 points and must have atomic weapons. However, you can shrink the size of atomic bombs so that big missiles and 2 engined bombers can carry them, but only 4 engine or bigger planes for the boosted weapons (which are 250 -400 kilotons). Boosted bombs are tech level 7. 6 points a year retains an operational program allowing for building 12 bombs a year

To build a Hydrogen bomb, you must spend 24 points a year for 3 years to develop it. You must also spend 24 points on the sciences needed for the technology to build it. You must be tech level 7 to even begin the process. Initial bomb is 10 - 15 megatons (see link above). For every 12 points spend thereafter you get better bomb technology leading to the development of tactical nuclear weapons (1 - 50 kilotons) by the 5th year after developing the H-Bomb and super (25 - 100 megaton weapons) by the 10th year of development. Further developments (and this does require 12 points a year for every single year) leads to neutron weapons by the 20th year of development and so called 'clean' weapons by the 25th year. An additional 6 points a year retains an operational program allowing for building 100 bombs a year, for every 1 point above that, another 30 weapons are produced.

Nuclear technology is complicated to say the least.

Missiles cannot carry H-bombs until tactical weapons are available (in other words, the warheads become small enough to fit in a missile)

Missiles and Space Programs
These are high tech items even today, so special rules apply.
1. Short range missiles (V2 type) 24 points, tech level 6, 1 point buys 500 missiles, plus 1 point a year for maintenance and they only carry HE warheads and have a short range. They have a CEP of up to 50 miles.
2. Short range cruise missiles (V1 type) as above
Germany, US, UK, Scandic Union, Russia, Gran Colombia have this technology already

At tech level 7 the following can begin (and in this order)
Ballistic Missiles
No more then 24 points can be spent a year on missile research

1. MRBM missiles (as per V2, but have a medium range of several hundred miles). Research cost is 24 points, then Cost 1 point for 200 missiles, plus 1 point a year for maintenance. HE warheads only. US, Germany, UK, Scandic Union, Russia, Gran Colomiba have this technology already (as of 1947(
2. Improved MRBM missiles (can actually carry a nuke up to 25 KT or chemical warhead). Costs as above plus research for 12 points
US has this technology in 1947

3. Intermediate (IRBM) range missiles (range is long, up to 2000 miles), can carry warheads up to 100 KT. Research cost is 24 points plus unit Cost is 1 point for 100 missiles plus 1 point a year for maintenance (Redstone type missile) CEP is 10 miles.

4. ICBM (intercontinental range missiles) range is 6500 miles, liquid fuel missiles, research cost is 48 points, unit cost is 1 point for every 25 missiles plus 1 point a year for maintenance (Atlas type missiles) CEP is 10 miles, can carry warheads up to 100 KT.

5. Large ICBMs, range is 10,000 miles, liquid fuel, research cost 24 points, unit cost is 1 point for every 10 missiles plus 1 point a year for maintenance. Can carry up to 1 MT warhead, CEP is 10 miles (Titan type).

6. Improved IRBMs, range is 2500 miles, liquid fuel, research cost is 24 points, unit cost is 1 point for 24 missiles, plus 1 point a year for maintenance. Can carry up to 1 50 KT warhead. Can be carried aboard a ballistic missile submarine.

7. Solid fuel missiles, research cost is 48 points, unit cost same as type of missile desired.

8. MIRV technology. 72 points, allows IRBMs and ICBMs to carry more than 1 warhead.

Cruise missiles, SAMs and other missiles.
Improved MRBMs allows you to build SAM1 type missiles, Snark type cruise missiles, Sidewinder type AA missiles,

ICBMs allow you to build SAM2 type missiles, Kelt type cruise missiles, better AA missiles

Large ICBMS allow you to build Nike-Ajax anti missiles (with nuclear warheads) and SUBROC type ASW weapons

Improved IRBMs allow for wireguided, joy stick controlled anti tank missiles, portable (vehicle mounted) anti aircraft missiles

Solid fuel missiles allow for TOW type ant tank missiles, man portable AA missiles

Space Program
no more then 12 points a year allowed for research
1. Improved IRBMs allow for a putting something into space, plus another 12 points and you can replicate the first Mercury mission (but cannot achieve orbit)
2. ICBMs allow for Sputnik, and with 24 more points, you can replicate Mercury type missions (achieve orbit)
3. 12 points gets you short duration communications and other satellites
4. 12 more points plus Large ICBMs and you can replicate Gemini type missions.
5. 24 points gets you heavy lift rockets (Saturn V)
6. 24 more points gets you Apollo capability.
7. 24 more points gets you Skylab capability.

Plus the cost of spacecraft and the mission itself.
Each Manned Space mission costs 5 points (and each mission must be paid for seperately and has a risk of disaster)
Each Satellite launch costs 1 point (and also has a risk of disaster)

Space planes like the X-15 etc require solid fuel type missile technology, plus another 48 points to achieve suborbital, and another 24 points to achieve orbital flight. Better space planes cost another 36 points (and I will have to figure out something as none were every built). The Space Shuttle is a tech level 8 technology.

Project Orion has a very special cost structure... contact me if you are loony enough to try it


Important update

British 1948 deployments

A few minor changes, mainly that the Navu has divided itself into more and smaller fleets to adapt to modern warfare more easily in that there will be some RN vessels at a trouble spot within a few hours no matter where it is.

The Army

UK, Home Defence Duty:
1 HQ unit
1 elite mechanised brigade of marines
1 highly trained armoured division
2 highly trained infantry divisions

German Stettin Base Duty
1 highly trained mechanised division

Colonial Duty:
1 HQ unit (East Africa)
1 highly trained mechanised field artillery unit (East Africa)
4 standard infantry divisions (Nigeria, Singapore, British Caribbean, East Africa)

Royal Navy

Home Fleet
18 inch gun battleship: Vanguard
1 Heavy Carrier Battlegroup (HMS Ark Royal)
2 attack submarine units
20 destroyers, 4 squadrons of 5.
10 frigates, 1 flotilla of 10.
40 missile/torpedo boats, 1 group of 40.
2 Heavy missile cruisers(HMS Raleigh, HMS Frobisher)
3 Light missile cruisers (HMS Bristol, HMS Chatham, HMS Weymouth)
1 amphibious assault group

Atlantic Fleet
1 Fleet carrier battlegroup (HMS Vindictive)
2 attack submarine units
20 destroyers, 4 squadrons of 5.
20 frigates, 2 flotillas of 10.
2 Heavy missile cruisers(HMS Effingham, HMS Cambrian)
2 Light missile cruisers(HMS Birkenhead, HMS Birmingham)

Caribbean Fleet
10 destroyers, 2 squadrons of 5.
20 corvettes, 1 patrol of 20.
40 missile/torpedo boats, 1 group of 40.

Mediterranean Fleet
1 Fleet carrier battlegroup (HMS Hermes)
1 attack submarine unit
10 destroyers, 2 squadrons of 5.
20 corvettes, 1 patrol of 20.
10 frigates, 1 flotilla of 10.
40 missile/torpedo boats, 1 group of 40.
1 Heavy missile cruiser(HMS Ceres)
2 Light missile cruisers(HMS Manchester, HMS Glasgow)

Pacific Fleet
1 Fleet carrier battlegroup (HMS Eagle)
2 attack submarine units
30 destroyers, 6 squadrons of 5.
20 frigates, 2 flotillas of 10.
2 Heavy missile cruisers(HMS Centaur, HMS Caledon)
2 Light missile cruisers(HMS Edinburgh, HMS Falmouth)

Indian Ocean Fleet
1 attack submarine unit
10 destroyers, 2 squadrons of 5.
20 corvettes, 1 patrol of 20.
10 frigates, 1 flotilla of 10.
40 missile/torpedo boats, 1 group of 40.
1 Heavy missile cruiser(HMS Carlisle)
1 Light missile cruisers(HMS Nottingham)

Naval Reserves
Ships that have been mothballed are kept in drydock at Portsmouth and other naval bases until scrapped or recalled to service.
16 inch gun battleships: Temeraire, Conqueror, Thunder, Lion
15 inch gun battleships: Hood, King George V, Duke of York, Prince of Wales, Anson, Howe,
old battleships: Rodney, Queen Elizabeth, Warspite, Valiant, Malaya,
1 modernised HMS Hood
1 ASW carrier battlegroup (HMS Courageous, HMS Glorious, HMS Furious)

Fleet Air Arm (with carriers)

4 Sea Hawk Carrier Aircraft
4 naval aviation pilots

The Royal Airforce

3 de Havilland Venom fighter-bombers (1 in UK, 1 in West Africa, 1 in Carribean)
3 Gloster Javelin fighters (1 in UK, 1 in Singapore, 1 in Germany)
3 Hawker Hunter Aircraft (2 in UK, 1 in East Africa)
3 Lincoln air tanker (2 in UK, 1 in Germany)
3 C54 air transport (2 in UK, 1 in Germany)
1 B47 bomber (1 in UK)
2 Avro Vulcans (1 in UK, 1 in Germany)
18 pilot units (with planes)


The Army Reserves
Mostly territorial army units (30 days training per year), yeomanry cavalry units which are now mechanised and ex-servicemen who are still on the reserves list.

1 mechanised artillery units
4 mechanised divisions
1 HQ unit
1 armoured divisions

The Merchant Navy

35 merchant shipping units
10 Tech 6 Ocean Liners (represents 20 Queen Mary sized ocean liners). Protection 2, range 5, speed 6,

Merchant Airforce

5 pilots
1 domestic airline
4 international airline

Other Defences

4 Flak artillery (Coventry, Dover, London, Scapa Flow)

The Burmese government is informed of the recieval of 10 points of British aid for 1948. Britain expects these points to a)pay for an acceptable level of social services and b) to provide a basic military consisting of army, air force and navy to protect Burma and her people.

Britain will also provide up to 3 units worth of Hawker Fury aircraft which have recently been replaced by Gloster Javelins if the Burmese wish to have them.

for those of you who are interested in Project Orion

see this link

http://www.alternatehistory.com/gateway/essays/OrionProblems.html

The Burmese government is informed of the recieval of 10 points of British aid for 1948. Britain expects these points to a)pay for an acceptable level of social services and b) to provide a basic military consisting of army, air force and navy to protect Burma and her people.

Britain will also provide up to 3 units worth of Hawker Fury aircraft which have recently been replaced by Gloster Javelins if the Burmese wish to have them.

the Burmese are pleased (and I will handle them this week).. they would rather have Hawker Hunters and Mosquitos if possible though (cheaper to deal with)

The heavy aircraft shuddered as it rose higher. He had to gain more altitude. The TU-16 was ladden down with its impressive cargo. Emanuel was somewhere over the Pacific Ocean, near the Galapagos Islands. He was sweating. The swedes had instructed him how to use it, but it didn't change the fact that he was sitting on a 20 kiloton device.

It was the perfect condition.. finally. His mission had been aborted atleast half a dozen times. He would be a national hero! He would be the one to lead the charge! Colombia would burst into that upper plateau of the great Nuclear Powers! His copilot piped up, pointing to the island before them. They would have to gain another 5,000 feet before they could drop it. Far below he could see a few ships parked beside the island, and far off in the distance was a single cruiser. He couldn't remember the name, but he figured they would be watching.

He did however, recognize one of the ships beside the island.. it was an Armoured Cruiser from the Second Great War... he remembered it from his history books in school. Suddenly dropping this bomb wasn't so appealing. There was a call from behind him, two minutes before Bolivar would be dropped. He was shaking a little... he breathed deeply.
"We have achieved necessary altitude, we are clear."
His communications officer turned to him, "Mission is go, Bolivar is a go!"

The plane shuddered as the massive bomb detached from the fusalage, the Badger immediatly gained altitude... it floated gracefully towards the island... a thought popped into Emanual's head, What if there were people on the Island? He knew they said there was no towns or settlements... but what if there were Natives? A blinding flash sprung up to greet his aircraft, cascading the cockpit in an eerie glow. A rumbling boom rose up behind it, and once again the aircraft shuddered and writhed under the stress of the massive explosion below. Hundreds of miles away, several man in long white coats wrote indescriminate things on their brown clipboards while a beautiful island burned under the hot pacific sun.

Oh yes, Colombia has joined the Nuclear Powers, oh yes.

Head of the Armed Forces: Charles De Gaulle

The French millitary has normal training.

3 Infantry Corps (150,000 men with artillary support):
Each Corps contains 50,000 men:

Peace-time deployment <unmobilised>
1st Infantry Corps:
10 Brigades spread across the north of France

2nd Infantry Corps:
10 Brigades spread across the South of France

3rd Infantry Corps:
10 Brigades spread across the Eastern coast of France.

1 Mechanised Artillary Group (20,000 personel) <Stationed in Paris>
1 HQ <Stationed in Paris>

1 Light infantry Division (20,000 men) <French Forign Legion> which will be put under the command of the UN security Council.

1 Millitia division (National Police)

the Burmese are pleased (and I will handle them this week).. they would rather have Hawker Hunters and Mosquitos if possible though (cheaper to deal with)

That's fine, i've probably got some of those kicking around in warehouses as well. I only replaced them 2-3 years ago.

Army:
4 Infantry Divisions
1 light infantry marine brigade (high training)
Reserve:
2 Garrison Units
1 light infantry marine brigade (high training)
1 airborne brigade (high training)
1 HQ unit

Navy--RAN:
1 Heavy Carrier (HMAS Curtin)
--F11F Tigers with Expert Pilot
1 Heavy Cruiser (HMAS Australia)
1 Light Cruiser (HMAS Melbourne)
25 Destroyers
10 Attack Submarines

Airforce--RAAF:
1 Hawker Hunter Jet Fighter
1 Mosquito Light Bomber
1 Corsair Fighter Bomber
1 C47 transport
(all combat aircraft have expert pilots and all air units are in reserve)

Military of the Federation of Asian States, 1948

Army
x1 Garrison (Peshawar)
x1 Garrison (Tehran)
x1 Garrison (Kabul)
x1 Garrison (Agra)
x1 Garrison (Tabriz)
x1 Garrison (Mumbai)
x1 HQ (Kermanshah)
x1 Mechanized Infantry (Yazd)
x1 Mechanized Infantry (Bandar Abbas)
x1 Mechanized Infantry (Kandahar)
x1 Mechanized Infantry (Abadan)
x1 Light Infantry (Srinagar)
x1 Light Infantry (Sikkim)
x1 Light Infantry (Bettiah)
x1 Light Infantry (Meerut)
x1 Light Infatnry (Hyderabad)
x1 Armored (Madras)
x1 Armored (Agra)
x1 Armored (Amritsar)

Air Force
x2 Average Pilots
x4 C47 transport units
x1 Mosquito Bomber Unit (Tehran)

Navy
x1 Light Ship Unit, 20 corvettes (Madras)

Merchant Marine
x30 Merchant ships = 15,000,000 tons of shipping

All occupation forces have returned to the United States, leaving only some advisors in various countries including Russia, Palestine, Morocco, Mexico, Central Asian Republic, and the Ukraine.

US Forces Overseas
15th Air Force (Russia under a basing agreement)
48h Fighter Wing (F84) Irkutsk, 52nd Bomb Wing (B57) Sverdlovsk, 86th Airlift wing (C82) (Irkutsk)

US Army Russia
2nd Cavalry Regiment (brigade sized, well trained) at Sverdlovsk (practices with the Russians)

14th Air Force (Japan under a basing agreement)
18th Fighter Wing (F100) Nagoya, 35th Bomb Wing (B57) Sapporo, 374th Airlift Wing (C54), Tokyo,

12th Air Force (Japan and the Philippines under a basing agreement)
35th Fighter Wing (F100) 9th Refueling Wing (KC50D) Clark field, Philippines, 5th Bomb Wing (B47) Guam with a forward base at Okinawa used by both the 12th and 14th Air Forces for practice missions.

Various detachments at Okinawa, Truk, Kwajalein, Eniwetok, Saipan, Wake Island, Midway, Tahiti, Iceland, the Azores and the Aleutian Islands

US Coast Guard Pacific (based out of Guam, Hawaii and Tahiti)
10 destroyer escort sized Coast Guard Cutters

Pacific Fleet
(4 heavy, 2 fleet carriers, 16 cruisers, 40 destroyers, 20 submarines, 2 amphibious assault groups, 30 destroyer escorts)
Organized into the 7th Fleet (Western Pacific), 3rd Fleet (Eastern Pacific) and 1st Fleet (US West Coast)
Heavy carriers Saratoga, Yorktown, Lexington, Valley Force,
Fleet Carriers America, Oriskany
Guided Missile Cruisers San Diego, San Antonio, San Pedro, Duluth, Galveston, Los Angeles, Hampton, Biloxi
Escort Cruisers Concord, Richmond, Memphis, Chester, Pensacola, Salt Lake City, Houston, Northhampton,
plus 40 destroyers, 20 submarines, 2 amphibious assault groups, 30 destroyer escorts
4 heavy carrier air groups equipped with AJ1 bombers, F11F fighters, and FH2 fighter bombers plus S2 Tracker ASW aircraft and helicopters (100 aircraft)
2 Fleet carrier air groups equipped with F11F fighters, FH2 fighter bombers, S2 Tracker ASW, and helicopters (100 aircaft)

joining the Pacific Fleet in 1948 will be the Helicopter Carrier Essex, Battleship (missile) Iowa, Battleship (missile) Missouri, 1 Marine helicopter unit

Atlantic Fleet
consists of the 2nd Fleet (US East Coast), 5th Fleet (South Atlantic), 6th Fleet (Mediterranean)
Fleet carriers Constellation, Constitution, Lake Erie, Lake Champlain,
Guided Missile (light) cruisers Atlanta, Juneau, San Pedro, San Juan
Escort Cruisers Wichita, Tuscaloosa, Indianapolis, Augusta,
20 destroyers, 30 destroyer escorts, 20 submarines, 2 amphibious assault groups
4 Fleet carrier air groups with F11F fighters, FH2 fighter bombers, S2 Tracker ASW, and helicopters (100 aircaft)

joining the Atlantic Fleet in 1948 Helicopter Carrier Kitty Hawk, Battleship (missile) New Jersey, Battleship (missile) Wisconsin, 1 Marine helicopter unit

US Forces Pacific
25th Infantry Division (Hawaii)
13th Air Force with 31st Fighter Wing (F86D, all weather) Hawaii, 3rd Fighter Wing (F86D, all weather)

Home Forces
NORAD (US/Canada defense of North America)
US Coast Guard West Coast
40 small (corvette size) USCG cutters, plus 2 USNR/USCG P2V maritime patrol wings
Royal Canadian Navy West Coast
40 corvettes
US Coast Guard East Coast
40 small USCG cutters, 10 large USCG cutters plus 4 USNR/USCG P2V wings
Royal Canadian Navy East Coast
10 destroyers, 40 corvettes, plus 1 RCAF P2V Wings
Air Defense Forces North America
RCAF 2 F86D all weather interceptor wings
USAF 1 F86D all weather interceptor wing (4th)
USANG / USAFR 3 F86D all weather interceptor wings (148th, 33rd, 49th), 1 F86E daylight interceptor wings (27th)
US Army Rapid Deployment Force
82nd Airborne Division (3 well trained airborne brigades) Fort Bragg, NC, 101st Airborne Division (3 well trained airborne brigades) Fort Campbell KY, 3rd Armored cavalry regiment (brigade sized, well trained) Fort Bliss, TX, 11th Armored cavalry regiment (brigade sized, well trained) Fort Knox KY, 10th Mountain Division (light infantry division) Fort Richardson, Alaska,
US Marine Corps
1st Marine Division (2 amphibious light infantry, 1 amphibious mechanized brigades, well trained) Camp Pendleton, CA
2nd Marine Division ((2 amphibious light infantry, 1 amphibious mechanized brigades, well trained) Camp Lejune, NC
3rd Marine Air Wing (Corsairs) San Diego, CA

US Army strategic reserve
6th Army (Presidio, San Francisco)
2nd Infantry Division (Ft Lewis), 6th Infantry Division (Fort Ord)

3rd Army (Fort Sam Houston, San Antonio)
9th Mechanized infantry division (Fort Riley), 1st and 2nd Armored Divisions (Fort Hood), 1st Cavalry Division (infantry, Fort Carson) 75th mechanized artillery group (Fort Sill), 97th mechanized flak group (Ft Bliss)

2nd Army (National Guard and Army Reserve East of Mississippi)
2nd Army Command (Fort Dix), 28th (PA NG), 29th (VA/MD NG), 30th (SC/NC NG), 42nd (NY NG) infantry divisions, 3rd Armored Division (NJ/DE NG), 4th Armored Division (TN/KY NG), 6 mechanized artillery groups (various states)

5th Army (National Guard and Army Reserve West of Mississippi)
5th Army Command (Fort Polk), 35th Mechanized Division (MO/KS NG), 36th Mechanized Division (TX NG), 45th (OK/AR NG), 34th (MI/IN NG), 38th (WI/IL NG), 40th (CA NG) infantry divisions, 2 mechanized artillery brigades (various state)

US Air Force strategic reserve
Strategic Air Command (Omaha)
509th Bomb Wing (B36)(Whiteman AFB), 7th Bomb Wing (B36)(Dyess AFB), 28th Bomb Wing (B47)(Ellsworth AFB), 92nd Air refueling Wing (KC50)(McCord AFB), 157th Air Refueling Wing (KC50)(Pease AFB)

Tactical Air Command (Langley)
1st Fighter Wing (F100)(Langley AFB), 56th Fighter Wing (F100)(Luke AFB),
366th Bomb Wing (B57)(Mountain Home AFB), 2nd Bomb Wing (B57)(Barksdale AFB), 92nd Air Refueling Wing (KC50)(Fairchild AFB), 190th Air Refueling Wing (KC50) (McConnel AFB), 43rd Air Refueling Wing (KC50)(Seymour Johnson AFB),

Airlift Command (Dover AFB)
89th Airlift Wing (C54)(Andrews), 94th Airlift Wing (C82)(Dobbins AFB), 15th Airlift Wing (C54)(Hickem AFB), 189th Airlift Wing (C82)(Little Rock AFB), 60th Heavy Airlift Wing (C124)(Travis AFB), 436th Airlift Wing (C54)(Dover AFB), 43rd Airlift Wing (C82)(Pope AFB), 1st Special Operations Wing (C47)(MacDill AFB), 6th Special Operations Wing (MacDill AFB),

Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve
F84F Fighter Bomber Wings (assigned to TAC) 188th, 102nd, 144th, 111th Fighter Wings,
F51H Fighter Bomber Wings (assigned to TAC) 136th, 135th, 104th, 120th Fighter Wings
B57 Bomb Wings (assigned to TAC) 461st, 22nd Bomb Wings
A216 Bomb Wings (assigned to TAC) 91st, 99th Bomb Wings
C82 Airlift Wings 136th, 165th, 168th, 171st Airlift Wings

In 1948 B52s will replace B36s

Planned for 1949 – 50
F101A interceptor fighters, F101B all weather interceptors, F105 fighter bombers, KC97 and KC135 tankers, C123 and C130 theater airlift, A4 Skyhawks for Navy and Marines, AD1 Skyraider brought back into service for Air National Guard units

US Army also introduces the M47 Walker light tank to replace the older M24 Chaffees still in service. The M48 Patton tank will be available beginning 1948.
Older M26 Pershing tanks will be available to friendly states (basically you get them as part of an upgrade if requested.. supplies are limited to about 6 armored divisions worth)

The US makes available for sale the F100 to Japan, Oman, Morocco, Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands, Burgundy, and will make the F101 available to Canada when production begins, as well as Japan.

Older F51 fighter bombers, F84 jet fighter bombers and C82 theater airlift aircraft will be made available as they are replaced in US service for half cost.

2nd Marine Division ((2 amphibious light infantry, 1 amphibious mechanized brigades, well trained) Camp Lejune, CA

OOC: Camp Lejeune is in North Carolina, not California.

I kind of lost track of my military. I do remember that I have no Navy, and about 15 infantry or garrison units in service, as well as several P47 fighters along with the pilots needed to fly them.

All occupation forces have returned to the United States, leaving only some advisors in various countries including Russia, Palestine, Morocco, Mexico, Central Asian Republic, and the Ukraine.

ooc:I assume Australian occupation forces in Japan are gone then too (though I am still in Indonesia)?

All occupation forces have returned to the United States, leaving only some advisors in various countries including Russia, Palestine, Morocco, Mexico, Central Asian Republic, and the Ukraine.

Does this mean that my occupation of France is likewise over? Hopefully, I have colonies to garrison...

Does this mean that my occupation of France is likewise over? Hopefully, I have colonies to garrison...

ooc
up to you, the US President made a unilateral decision on pulling US troops out

OOC: Camp Lejeune is in North Carolina, not California.

yes I know, my son is a Marine. I shouldn't type large amounts of information while watching television at the same time.

China's military as of 1948.

12 infantry corps
2 HQ
4 P47 fighter bombers
4 pilots

7 points maintainence.

-----------------------------

Thats what I was able to find out. Anyways, I hit tech level 7 next year, right? Then how much would it cost to upgrade these units to Tech Level 7? I mean, upgrade the 12 infantry corps to tech level 7 infantry corps, and p47 fighters to Mystere IV's?

HQ's stay the same, right?

China's military as of 1948.

12 infantry corps
2 HQ
4 P47 fighter bombers
4 pilots

7 points maintainence.

-----------------------------

Thats what I was able to find out. Anyways, I hit tech level 7 next year, right? Then how much would it cost to upgrade these units to Tech Level 7? I mean, upgrade the 12 infantry corps to tech level 7 infantry corps, and p47 fighters to Mystere IV's?

HQ's stay the same, right?

to upgrade is automatic for the ground units (as long as you pay maintenance) but you will have to buy the jets, which you can do now if you want. You can use tech level 7 equipment etc, you just can't make it yourself, with the exception of the Dassault Aircraft, which is a special case. You can have tech level 7 equipment for your ground units for that matter, you just have to have someone willing to sell it to you (the US would for example, as would probably the British and Colombians)

Did I have to pay anything to repair my military?

Did I have to pay anything to repair my military?

you lost the equilivant of 1 infantry division in terms of losses, as you broke down a garrison unit to create a pair of infantry divisions, you will need to spend 1 point to replace all ground combat losses.

When will Germany be able to build it's own stuff again?

Parthini']When will Germany be able to build it's own stuff again?

NEVER!

Bwahahahahahahhaaaaa!

ooc
up to you, the US President made a unilateral decision on pulling US troops out

In which case Britain officially pulls her remaining peacekeepers out of France and places them on Home Defence duty in the UK. All British peacekeeping troops are now withdrawn and back on British soil (except the base at Stettin in Germany where army and air force personnel are stationed in accordance with the Treaty of Daresalam).

Preparations are made for the first Sub-Orbital launch from the European Space Agency. Tests involving launching monkeys and other robotic tests are expected to be carried out by April-May 1949. Preparations for a full human sub-orbital launch are apace and it is expected to be launched by Autumn of the same year. Discussions are underway regarding launch sites.

Parthini']When will Germany be able to build it's own stuff again?

what kind of 'stuff' does Germany wish to build? Small arms, artillery etc can be built now, and the Focke Wulf company is working on new aircraft, as is Dornier (Heinkel went belly up and assume it got absorbed by the other 2)

what kind of 'stuff' does Germany wish to build? Small arms, artillery etc can be built now, and the Focke Wulf company is working on new aircraft, as is Dornier (Heinkel went belly up and assume it got absorbed by the other 2)

Ok. When does the G3 come out? I think it came out in the late 50's in RL, but I'm assuming things are a little ahead due to the progress of Germany the past half-decade.

Also, when will new Tanks, Armored Cars and Aircraft come out?

Parthini']Ok. When does the G3 come out? I think it came out in the late 50's in RL, but I'm assuming things are a little ahead due to the progress of Germany the past half-decade.

Also, when will new Tanks, Armored Cars and Aircraft come out?

you can build anything the Bundewehr has for equipment vehicles etc 6 years before they historically got it

so look up the Bundeswehr

you can build anything the Bundewehr has for equipment vehicles etc 6 years before they historically got it

so look up the Bundeswehr

I have. However, the Bundeswehr didn't exist until 1955, so I really have nothing to use...

New vehicles 1948
A Korean / Japanese venture builds the prototype of the Type 6 Chi - Ri main battle tank. This tank is comparable in armor to the German Tiger, has an 88 mm gun, has a top speed of 45 KPH, and weighs 37 tons (comparable to US and UK tech level 7 designs)

ooc
for a picture, look at the type 5 Chi Ri at this link
http://users.swing.be/tanks/engins2/236.html

IC
The German company, Mühlenbau und Industrie AG, comes up with an improved version of the Jagdpanther, with a better engine giving it a speed of 60 kph (ooc otherwise same as the Jagdpanther)

Henschel, now located in India, begins production of the Tiger III, with a better engined giving it a speed of 60 kph (otherwise same as Tiger II)

All three armored vehicles have infrared sighting equipment (as do other tech level 7 tanks) and air conditioning (to provide overpressure to deal with chemical weapons and radiation)

The Porsche company in Colombia comes up with an improved version of the Jagdtiger by placing an American engine and transmission with Porsches orginal design. The resulting armored vehicle weighs 75 tons, but has a speed of 45 KPH, and has the thickest armor of any armored vehicle in the world along with the huge 128 mm gun. It also is equipped with air conditioning and has an IR sighting system. It also cost as much as much as buying 3 tanks (units equipped with this vehicle get an extra +2 combat strength, however, also cost twice as much to maintain)

The Ukraine, in cooperation with Poland, produces the T-54 main battle tank and the T-10 heavy tank and the BTR152 armored personnel carrier.

The Russians develop the PT76 light amphibious tank and the BTR50 armored personnel carrier, and buy Ukrainian tanks (and produce them under license)

France begins production of the AMX13 light tank for their forces and for export.

The US begins building the M41 light tank, the M47 main battle tank, and continues work on the M103 heavy tank.

Parthini']I have. However, the Bundeswehr didn't exist until 1955, so I really have nothing to use...

Use late war German infantry and artillery weapons, British armored vehicles and German trucks for now, and when the Germans produce things historically, use those

I was wondering if and when China will get respectable tech level 7 tanks. How about that 4-tracked tank I posted a couple months ago?

I was wondering if and when China will get respectable tech level 7 tanks. How about that 4-tracked tank I posted a couple months ago?

you can build that now if you wish... although its pretty specialized. I would suggest you (China is part of the Seoul Treaty after all ) buy the Korean tank I posted.

Are these tanks Main Battle Tanks, because a lot of them, at least during WWII, were specializing tanks?

Parthini']Are these tanks Main Battle Tanks, because a lot of them, at least during WWII, were specializing tanks?

yes, they are main battle tanks unless otherwise indicated

In India, the AK47 goes into limited production. Problems will prevent large scale production until 1950.

Meanwhile, Fabrique Nationale in Belgium begins production of the FN FAL, which is immediately adopted by the Dutch, Belgian, Burgundian and Irish Armies, and large orders are placed by Greece.

The US Army continues tests for the M14, which will not enter production until 1951. Meanwhile design work on the German H & K G3 continues (not available until 1951 either).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0b/M41.jpg

Lynx Light Tank (Chinese developed version)

Crew: 3
Combat weight: 35 tons

Dimensions

Length (with gun): 7m
Length (without gun): 5m
Width: 3m
Height: 2m
Road speed: 80km/h
Road range: 300km

Tracks

Type: dual center guide
Number of Tracks: 2
Width: 350mm each track (700mm total)
Ground contact length: 4m
Suspension: dual torsion bar
Vertical obstacle: 0.75m
Trench: 2m
Fording: 1.75m

Engine: Chin E-75 with 750 horsepower.

Armament

Main gun: Jade-70
Caliber: 70mm
Maximum muzzle velocity: 1200m/s
Breech: semiautomatic
Traverse: 360°
Secondary gun: 1x 10mm co-axial machine gun
Armor: 75mm



http://www.axishistory.com/fileadmin/user_upload/m/museum-patton-3.jpg

Panther III Medium Tank* (Chinese developed version)

Crew: 4
Combat weight: 50 tons

Dimensions

Length (with gun): 9m
Length (without gun): 7m
Width: 3.5m
Height: 3m
Road speed: 60km/h
Road range: 250km

Tracks

Type: dual center guide
Number of Tracks: 2
Width: 600mm each track (1200mm total)
Ground contact length: 6m
Suspension: dual torsion bar
Vertical obstacle: 1m
Trench: 2.2m
Fording: 2m

Engine: Chin E-75 with 750 horsepower.

Armament

Main gun: Jade-90
Caliber: 90mm
Maximum muzzle velocity: 1200m/s
Breech: semiautomatic
Traverse: 360°
Secondary gun: 1x 10mm co-axial machine gun
Armor: 120mm



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b8/Tiger-II-La_Gleize.jpg

Tiger III Heavy Tank* (Chinese developed version)

Crew: 4
Combat weight: 75 tons

Dimensions

Length (with gun): 11m
Length (without gun): 8m
Width: 4m
Height: 3m
Road speed: 60km/h
Road range: 200km

Tracks

Type: dual center guide
Number of Tracks: 2
Width: 750mm each track (1500mm total)
Ground contact length: 7m
Suspension: dual torsion bar
Vertical obstacle: 1.25m
Trench: 2.5m
Fording: 2.25m

Engine: Chin E-100 with 1000 horsepower.

Armament

Main gun: Jade-100
Caliber: 100mm
Maximum muzzle velocity: 1200m/s
Breech: semiautomatic
Traverse: 360°
Secondary gun: 2x 10mm co-axial machine gun
Armor: 150mm



http://www.axishistory.com/fileadmin/user_upload/m/museum-patton-5.jpg

Dragon Assault Tank (Chinese developed)

Crew: 4
Combat weight: 90 tons

Dimensions

Length (with gun): 15m
Length (without gun): 11m
Width: 5m
Height: 3m
Road speed: 40km/h
Road range: 175km

Tracks

Type: dual center guide
Number of Tracks: 4 (double configuration)
Width: 500mm each track (2000mm total)
Ground contact length: 10m
Suspension: dual torsion bar
Vertical obstacle: 1.5m
Trench: 3m
Fording: 2.5m

Engine: Chin E-100 with 1000 horsepower.

Armament

Main gun: Jade-120
Caliber: 120mm
Maximum muzzle velocity: 1200m/s
Breech: semiautomatic
Traverse: 90°
Secondary gun: 4x 10mm co-axial machine gun
Armor: 200mm

* = Panther and Tiger II blueprints and technical specifications were bought from France just prior to World War 3. Thus, China has had about 10 years to inspect, analyze, and improve upon these tanks, resulting in these improved versions as well as the Lynx and the Dragon tanks.

-----------------------------------------------

I did some tweaking of the stats I found on Wikipedia and scaled them up or down accordingly. I'm using proportion, easy scale (1x, 1.5x, 2x, 2.5x, etc.), and 5's, 10's, and 100's (for horsepower, gun sizes, armor thickness, tonnage, etc.) to make it really easy to use and understand.

How feasible are these tanks, and if not, how much work do I have to do to fine tune them into reasonable sizes?

Comments? Feedback?

In India, the AK47 goes into limited production. Problems will prevent large scale production until 1950.

Meanwhile, Fabrique Nationale in Belgium begins production of the FN FAL, which is immediately adopted by the Dutch, Belgian, Burgundian and Irish Armies, and large orders are placed by Greece.

The US Army continues tests for the M14, which will not enter production until 1951. Meanwhile design work on the German H & K G3 continues (not available until 1951 either).

WEEE! AK-47's!!!!

The Army

UK, Home Defence Duty:
1 HQ unit
1 highly trained mechanised field artillery unit

Cyprus Peacekeeping Duty:
2 highly trained infantry divisions

German Stettin Base Duty
1 highly trained armoured division

Colonial Duty:
1 HQ unit (Tanzania)
3 standard infantry divisions (Nigeria, Singapore, Tanzania)
1 elite mechanised brigade of marines (Gibraltar)
1 highly trained mechanised division (Suez)

Sierra Leone Special Detachment (to guard ESA space launch facility):
1 standard infantry division

Royal Navy

Home Fleet
18 inch gun battleship: Vanguard
1 Heavy Carrier Battlegroup (HMS Ark Royal)
2 attack submarine units
20 destroyers, 4 squadrons of 5.
10 frigates, 1 flotilla of 10.
40 missile/torpedo boats, 1 group of 40.
2 Heavy missile cruisers(HMS Raleigh, HMS Frobisher)
3 Light missile cruisers (HMS Bristol, HMS Chatham, HMS Weymouth)
1 amphibious assault group

Heligoland Special Detachment (to guard Queen Victoria Research Facility)
10 frigates, 1 flotilla of 10
20 corvettes, 1 patrol of 20.

Atlantic Fleet
1 Fleet carrier battlegroup (HMS Vindictive)
2 attack submarine units
20 destroyers, 4 squadrons of 5.
10 frigates, 1 flotilla of 10.
2 Heavy missile cruisers(HMS Effingham, HMS Cambrian)
2 Light missile cruisers(HMS Birkenhead, HMS Birmingham)

Caribbean Fleet
10 destroyers, 2 squadrons of 5.
20 corvettes, 1 patrol of 20.
40 missile/torpedo boats, 1 group of 40.

Mediterranean Fleet
1 Fleet carrier battlegroup (HMS Hermes)
1 attack submarine unit
10 destroyers, 2 squadrons of 5.
10 frigates, 1 flotilla of 10.
40 missile/torpedo boats, 1 group of 40.
1 Heavy missile cruiser(HMS Ceres)
2 Light missile cruisers(HMS Manchester, HMS Glasgow)

Pacific Fleet
1 Fleet carrier battlegroup (HMS Eagle)
2 attack submarine units
30 destroyers, 6 squadrons of 5.
20 frigates, 2 flotillas of 10.
2 Heavy missile cruisers(HMS Centaur, HMS Caledon)
2 Light missile cruisers(HMS Edinburgh, HMS Falmouth)

Indian Ocean Fleet
1 attack submarine unit
10 destroyers, 2 squadrons of 5.
20 corvettes, 1 patrol of 20.
10 frigates, 1 flotilla of 10.
40 missile/torpedo boats, 1 group of 40.
1 Heavy missile cruiser(HMS Carlisle)
1 Light missile cruisers(HMS Nottingham)

Naval Reserves
Ships that have been mothballed are kept in drydock at Portsmouth and other naval bases until scrapped or recalled to service.
16 inch gun battleships: Temeraire, Conqueror, Thunder, Lion
1 ASW carrier battlegroup (HMS Courageous, HMS Glorious, HMS Furious)

Fleet Air Arm (with carriers)

5 Sea Hawk Carrier Aircraft
5 naval aviation pilots

The Royal Airforce

3 de Havilland Venom fighter-bombers (1 in UK, 1 in West Africa, 1 in Heligoland)
3 Gloster Javelin fighters (1 in UK, 1 in Singapore, 1 in Germany)
3 Hawker Hunter Aircraft (2 in UK, 1 in East Africa)
3 Lincoln air tanker (2 in UK, 1 in Germany)
2 Avro Vulcan Bombers (2 in UK)
3 C54 air transport (2 in UK, 1 in Germany)
1 B47 bomber (1 in Germany)
18 pilot units (with planes)


The Army Reserves
Mostly territorial army units (30 days training per year), yeomanry cavalry units which are now mechanised and ex-servicemen who are still on the reserves list.

1 mechanised artillery units
4 mechanised divisions
1 HQ unit
1 armoured divisions

The Merchant Navy

35 merchant shipping units
10 Tech 6 Ocean Liners (represents 20 Queen Mary sized ocean liners). Protection 2, range 5, speed 6,

Merchant Airforce

5 pilots
1 domestic airline
4 international airline

Other Defences

4 Flak artillery (Coventry, Dover, London, Scapa Flow)

The British Army wants the British government to approve the purchase of the FN as the standard battle rifle for the British Army.... so does the Australian Army.

So I was wondering if this should be realistic in game terms....

Lynx Light Tank

Cost: 4 points.
Combat Strength: 4
Maintainence: .25 points
Bonus aganist IFV's and APC's. (2x damage)
Weak aganist Heavy Tanks and Heavy Infantry. (bazookas)

Panther III Medium Tank

Cost: 6 points.
Combat Strength: 6 points.
Maintainence: 0.5 points.
No bonuses.
No weaknesses.

Tiger III Heavy Tank

Cost: 8 points.
Combat Strength: 8 points.
Maintainence: 0.75 points.
Bonus aganist heavy tanks, vehicles, and infantry. (2x damage)
Weak aganist light infantry.

Dragon Assault Tank

Cost: 10 points.
Combat Strength: 10 points
Maintainence: 1 point.
Bonus aganist fortifications, heavy tanks, and hard targets. (2x damage)
Weak aganist aircraft and artillery.


Does that work or do we gotta think of something else? I'm not exactly sure how to administer the right advantages and weaknesses to these tanks.

So I was wondering if this should be realistic in game terms....

Lynx Light Tank

Cost: 4 points.
Combat Strength: 4
Maintainence: .25 points
Bonus aganist IFV's and APC's. (2x damage)
Weak aganist Heavy Tanks and Heavy Infantry. (bazookas)

Panther III Medium Tank

Cost: 6 points.
Combat Strength: 6 points.
Maintainence: 0.5 points.
No bonuses.
No weaknesses.

Tiger III Heavy Tank

Cost: 8 points.
Combat Strength: 8 points.
Maintainence: 0.75 points.
Bonus aganist heavy tanks, vehicles, and infantry. (2x damage)
Weak aganist light infantry.

Dragon Assault Tank

Cost: 10 points.
Combat Strength: 10 points
Maintainence: 1 point.
Bonus aganist fortifications, heavy tanks, and hard targets. (2x damage)
Weak aganist aircraft and artillery.


Does that work or do we gotta think of something else? I'm not exactly sure how to administer the right advantages and weaknesses to these tanks.


I determine combat strengths based on what each side has in the way of equipment, vehicles, training etc when war starts. After all, until combat begins, generals simply don't know how good their units are compared to the enemy. Aircraft units are a little different, as performance is easier to determine, but ground forces and even naval forces are pretty much unknown.

I determine combat strengths based on what each side has in the way of equipment, vehicles, training etc when war starts. After all, until combat begins, generals simply don't know how good their units are compared to the enemy. Aircraft units are a little different, as performance is easier to determine, but ground forces and even naval forces are pretty much unknown.

Gotcha. I was just putting out what I think my tanks strengths and weaknesses should be. After all, Colombia does have its super-tanks that have +2 strength and such.

That aside, are my 4 tank classes good to go as far as Chinese tanks are concerned? I want to have 4 different kinds of tanks so that I can pretty much cover everything- like there's light infantry and heavy infantry, or light ships and heavy ships. That kind of stuff.

light tanks are used for recon usually, while main battle tanks equip armored and mechanized divisions, and heavy tanks are found in specialized units.

A new unit, a heavy armored brigade, can be purchased (same price as a regular armored brigade on the first page). Heavy armor is slow, but does have its uses.

light tanks are used for recon usually, while main battle tanks equip armored and mechanized divisions, and heavy tanks are found in specialized units.

A new unit, a heavy armored brigade, can be purchased (same price as a regular armored brigade on the first page). Heavy armor is slow, but does have its uses.

Will the Lynx be fine for light / recon tanks, and the Panther III and Tiger III's OK for China's main tank force, and the Dragon assault tanks for attacking fortifications or fortified cities?

Will that work, GB?

Will the Lynx be fine for light / recon tanks, and the Panther III and Tiger III's OK for China's main tank force, and the Dragon assault tanks for attacking fortifications or fortified cities?

Will that work, GB?

yes

The development of the Ht-1 continues. Several working prototypes have been constucted and test flight have been shceduled for later next year.

The British Army wants the British government to approve the purchase of the FN as the standard battle rifle for the British Army.... so does the Australian Army.

The Ministry of Defence granst budget concessions to the Army to purchase enough FN FAL L1A1 SLR (that's a lot of acronyms!) rifles to equip the main army and the territorial regiments.

OOC:
The SLR is the British version of the FN FAL. It was manufactured using Imperial measurements and minor changes were incorporated, including a folding cocking handle, a flash suppressor, a folding rear sight, sand removing cuts in the slide, and a strengthened magazine catch.

However this variant is semi-automatic only while the original Belgian version and other metric variants are selective fire. Most parts on the British version are not interchangeable with those built on a metric pattern.

The Australians also used the British version as did much of the rest of the Commonwealth. South Africa used both varients (the British one for infantry and the standard one for paratroopers) and the Indians just used the standard rifle.

ooc: Any noise from the Colombian Military?

ooc: Any noise from the Colombian Military?

OOC: And the Korean?

OOC: And the Korean?

Colombian Army is curious to see what the Americans come up with, while the Korean Army is waiting to see what is picked as the standard rifle for China and Japan.

OOC: Hmm... maybe everyone should wait 'til '51 when a real man's rifle comes out! :sniper:

[QUOTE=Galveston Bay]Because a lot of Nation Staters like to wage war



Transport and Tanker aircraft (New)
KC97 tanker air combat 0, range long
C123 Provider theater transport air combat rating 1, range medium

Jet fighters, fighter bombers and interceptors cost 2, maintenance .5 (New)
Mig 17 air combat 7, strike rating 1, range short, all weather (Poland)
Mig 19 air combat 8, strike rating 1, range short (Poland)
Dassault Mystere IV air combat 7, strike rating 2, range medium (China/France)
TA200 air combat 9, strike rating 1, range medium, all weather (Germany)

3rd Generation Jet fighters and light bombers Cost 3, maintenance 1
F101A Voodoo escort fighter, air combat 11, strike 2, range long, (US)
F101B Voodoo all weather interceptor air combat 10, strike 1, range long (US)
F104 Starfighter interceptor, air combat 11, strike 1, range short (US)

light jet bombers cost 3, maintenance .5 (New)
F105 light bomber light bomber, air combat 9, strike rating 5, range medium (US)
A4 Skyhawk carrier light bomber , air combat 7, strike rating 4, range medium (US)
Do- 337 light bomber, air combat 8, strike rating 4, range medium, (Germany)



strategic bombers (jet) cost 6, maintenance 2
B52 Stratofortress, air combat 8, strike rating 12, range intercontinental (US)(nuclear capable)
Tu95 Bear, air combat 8, strike rating 10, range long (Scandic)(nuclear capable)



New aircraft added

aircraft coming soon
1951
SU7 Fighter bomber air combat 9, strike rating 3, range short (Russia)

1952
Mig21 interceptor air combat 12, strike rating 1, range short (Poland)
Dassault Mirage III air combat 12, strike rating 2, range medium (France/China)
Su-9 interceptor air combat 12, strike rating 1, range medium (Russia)
Su-11 all weather interceptor air combat 11, strike rating 1, range medium (Russia)
BAC Lightning air combat 12, strike rating 2, range short (UK)

there is a possibility of delays on all of these, so they aren't available until posted on the first page

I'm curious- what exactly is "Strike Rating"?

I think it's how well they can strike ground targets

I think it's how well they can strike ground targets

its the bombing rating of the aircraft

considers the bomb load, accuracy, and general missions it can perform. Light bombers and fighter bombers are useful for ground support and attacking ships, while heavy and strategic bombers are more for hitting targets that don't move.

Maritime and naval aircraft also have the ability to attack submarines, even when they are submerged as homing torpedoes are common at tech level 7

special rule:

Nuclear warfare
For every 1 point of strike rating, a nation with nuclear (not atomic, but nuclear) can destroy 1 combat unit (ship, air unit on the ground, ground unit). For every 2 points of of strike rating, a nation with nuclear (not atomic) can destroy (not damage) 1 production center. Each combat turn (2 months)

Atomic weapons require 2 points of strike rating for the same effect, and can only damage production centers, not destroy them.

Radiation and EMP effects will be determined at the time of the strike using the best available information (and I have a lot of it)

Nuclear and Atomic strikes always get through and losses to attacking aircraft are determined after the strike is carried out (they get intercepted, but as so many aircraft are available, what is really being determined is how many survive to strike again)

special rule:

Nuclear warfare
For every 1 point of strike rating, a nation with nuclear (not atomic, but nuclear) can destroy 1 combat unit (ship, air unit on the ground, ground unit). For every 2 points of of strike rating, a nation with nuclear (not atomic) can destroy (not damage) 1 production center. Each combat turn (2 months)

Atomic weapons require 2 points of strike rating for the same effect, and can only damage production centers, not destroy them.

Radiation and EMP effects will be determined at the time of the strike using the best available information (and I have a lot of it)

Nuclear and Atomic strikes always get through and losses to attacking aircraft are determined after the strike is carried out (they get intercepted, but as so many aircraft are available, what is really being determined is how many survive to strike again)

I have a little problem with aircraft carrying atomic bombs being able to strike before being intercepted.

They can be shot down before delivering their atomic bombloads. Suppose the Japanese did have enough fighters and intact RADAR going to detect incoming USA bombing fleet then scramble Japanese fighters. The fighters shoot down Enola Gay before it ever reaches Hiroshima, thus, the nuking of Hiroshima never happens.

I have a little problem with aircraft carrying atomic bombs being able to strike before being intercepted.

They can be shot down before delivering their atomic bombloads. Suppose the Japanese did have enough fighters and intact RADAR going to detect incoming USA bombing fleet then scramble Japanese fighters. The fighters shoot down Enola Gay before it ever reaches Hiroshima, thus, the nuking of Hiroshima never happens.

If the Japanese had actually had a prayer of shooting the Enola Gay down you can bet serious money that the Americans would have put massive escorts around that plane. I dont have a real issue with the rule.

Umm... GB... you managed to forget to put both new German planes on the front... yeah...

I have a little problem with aircraft carrying atomic bombs being able to strike before being intercepted.

They can be shot down before delivering their atomic bombloads. Suppose the Japanese did have enough fighters and intact RADAR going to detect incoming USA bombing fleet then scramble Japanese fighters. The fighters shoot down Enola Gay before it ever reaches Hiroshima, thus, the nuking of Hiroshima never happens.

remember, we are talking aircraft units, not individual aircraft, and a well defended target will simply have more combat aircraft sorties directed at it.

Only when a substantial combat disparity exists will the defender be allowed to attempt to prevent attack.

Uh, you forgot the Scandic Nuker, too.

Also, got time for Chatzy?

Parthini']Umm... GB... you managed to forget to put both new German planes on the front... yeah...

fixed... by the way, use the USAF F100 as the example for the TA200, and the USAF B51 as the Do337

If the Japanese had actually had a prayer of shooting the Enola Gay down you can bet serious money that the Americans would have put massive escorts around that plane. I dont have a real issue with the rule.

True, but wouldn't it stand to reason that when a nation detects a bigger than normal air fleet coming in, they'd know something was up and scramble everything they have to meet that bigger than normal (or heavier defended than normal) incoming air fleet?

True, but wouldn't it stand to reason that when a nation detects a bigger than normal air fleet coming in, they'd know something was up and scramble everything they have to meet that bigger than normal (or heavier defended than normal) incoming air fleet?

Of course historically when the Enola Gay came in the Japanese deployed exactly what they had avaliable--nothing. They were saving the planes they had left for kamikaze strikes against an invasion fleet.

The point is really moot in light of GB's statement, but alternate-history is always fun to consider.

Of course historically when the Enola Gay came in the Japanese deployed exactly what they had avaliable--nothing. They were saving the planes they had left for kamikaze strikes against an invasion fleet.

The point is really moot in light of GB's statement, but alternate-history is always fun to consider.

Maybe Japan was a poor example.

What I was going for- suppose the USA or Russia decides to try to nuke China again in the next war (if China is even involved) and I have 10 jet interceptor units as opposed to the USA or Russian 5 fighters and 5 bombers. I detect the huge force bearing down on, say, Peking or Shanghai. I scramble all my 10 jet interceptor units to attack the "huge" force inbound.

My Chinese generals will probably say the "huge" fleet is escorting n00k planes, as its no secret that the first plane strikes from now on probably will be a n00k strike and should be treated as accordingly.

Maybe Japan was a poor example.

What I was going for- suppose the USA or Russia decides to try to nuke China again in the next war (if China is even involved) and I have 10 jet interceptor units as opposed to the USA or Russian 5 fighters and 5 bombers. I detect the huge force bearing down on, say, Peking or Shanghai. I scramble all my 10 jet interceptor units to attack the "huge" force inbound.

My Chinese generals will probably say the "huge" fleet is escorting n00k planes, as its no secret that the first plane strikes from now on probably will be a n00k strike and should be treated as accordingly.

except that isn't how jet bombers work. Watch the movie Dr. Strangelove or Fail Safe or for a tech level 8 example, Dawns Early Light.

Jet bombers fly singly, relying on either low altitude and radar jamming or high altitude and high speed to penetrate to the target. A full scale US attack on China would involve 400 B52s flying in from every point of the compass, along with 400 B47s. They would be flying low, at around 600 - 640 mph, and would be jamming radar with their onboard systems, and also be armed with decoys and missiles to shoot at enemy interceptors as well as their guns.

In short, a signficant number would be shot down, but most would reach their targets. Historically, strategic bombers nearly always hit their targets. Its being able to do it again that is what attrition determines. Air defenses have never been air tight. So some will get through. An effective air defense inflicts sufficient losses where continued attacks become too expensive to attempt.

Of course in nuclear warfare, once a target is hit by a nuclear weapon, it rarely has to be hit again.

except that isn't how jet bombers work. Watch the movie Dr. Strangelove or Fail Safe or for a tech level 8 example, Dawns Early Light.

Jet bombers fly singly, relying on either low altitude and radar jamming or high altitude and high speed to penetrate to the target. A full scale US attack on China would involve 400 B52s flying in from every point of the compass, along with 400 B47s. They would be flying low, at around 600 - 640 mph, and would be jamming radar with their onboard systems, and also be armed with decoys and missiles to shoot at enemy interceptors as well as their guns.

In short, a signficant number would be shot down, but most would reach their targets. Historically, strategic bombers nearly always hit their targets. Its being able to do it again that is what attrition determines. Air defenses have never been air tight. So some will get through. An effective air defense inflicts sufficient losses where continued attacks become too expensive to attempt.

Of course in nuclear warfare, once a target is hit by a nuclear weapon, it rarely has to be hit again.

So basically, anyone can fly strategic planes and attack the USA or UK or any "top-tier" nation in the world and get "guanatreed" nuclear strikes, then?

What of SAM oe AA missiles? The Russians had SAM missiles that could shoot down spy planes flying at extreme altitudes. What about AA missiles that fired from planes at 30,000 feet can reach to 60,000 or 100,000 feet?

So basically, anyone can fly strategic planes and attack the USA or UK or any "top-tier" nation in the world and get "guanatreed" nuclear strikes, then?

What of SAM oe AA missiles? The Russians had SAM missiles that could shoot down spy planes flying at extreme altitudes. What about AA missiles that fired from planes at 30,000 feet can reach to 60,000 or 100,000 feet?

during the Cold War, the US had 3000 bombers. It expected to lose roughly 20 -40% of them in a full scale attack on the Soviet Union. The Strategic Intergrated Operational Plan (SIOP) therefore had 112 targets in Moscow, each with a dedicated warhead, either from a missile or bomber.

So yes, even extremely heavy defenses will be penetrated. It depends on how many planes are attacking and how big the area the defenders have to cover. China, like the US, is huge, and it is simply impossible to defend every mile of air space. You can only make it as tough as possible so that fewer targets can be confidently attacked.

Until the US builds missiles that is....

Messerschmitt isn't worth the office ground in Bogota! Where are their new technological innovations?! And if you say they can build plans through license, I had other companies before that, that could do that.

Messerschmitt isn't worth the office ground in Bogota! Where are their new technological innovations?! And if you say they can build plans through license, I had other companies before that, that could do that.

You had been posting designs, so I have been waiting for one. When you post something, I will give it values and add it to the main thread

British Deployments 1949

RED indicates under construction

The Army

UK, Home Defence Duty:
1 HQ unit
1 highly trained mechanised field artillery unit

Cyprus Peacekeeping Duty:
2 highly trained infantry divisions

German Stettin Base Duty
1 highly trained armoured division
1 parachute brigade

Colonial Duty:
1 HQ unit (Tanzania)
3 standard infantry divisions (Nigeria, Singapore, Tanzania)
1 elite mechanised brigade of marines (Gibraltar)
1 highly trained mechanised division (Suez)

Sierra Leone Special Detachment (to guard ESA space launch facility):
1 standard infantry division

Royal Navy

Home Fleet
18 inch gun battleship: Vanguard
1 Heavy Carrier Battlegroup (HMS Ark Royal)
2 attack submarine units
20 destroyers, 4 squadrons of 5.
10 frigates, 1 flotilla of 10.
40 missile/torpedo boats, 1 group of 40.
2 Heavy missile cruisers(HMS Raleigh, HMS Frobisher)
3 Light missile cruisers (HMS Bristol, HMS Chatham, HMS Weymouth)
1 amphibious assault group

Heligoland Special Detachment (to guard Queen Victoria Research Facility)
10 frigates, 1 flotilla of 10
20 corvettes, 1 patrol of 20.

Atlantic Fleet
1 Fleet carrier battlegroup (HMS Vindictive)
2 attack submarine units
20 destroyers, 4 squadrons of 5.
10 frigates, 1 flotilla of 10.
2 Heavy missile cruisers(HMS Effingham, HMS Cambrian)
2 Light missile cruisers(HMS Birkenhead, HMS Birmingham)

Caribbean Fleet
10 destroyers, 2 squadrons of 5.
20 corvettes, 1 patrol of 20.
40 missile/torpedo boats, 1 group of 40.

Mediterranean Fleet
1 Fleet carrier battlegroup (HMS Hermes)
1 attack submarine unit
10 destroyers, 2 squadrons of 5.
10 frigates, 1 flotilla of 10.
40 missile/torpedo boats, 1 group of 40.
1 Heavy missile cruiser(HMS Ceres)
2 Light missile cruisers(HMS Manchester, HMS Glasgow)

Pacific Fleet
1 Fleet carrier battlegroup (HMS Eagle)
2 attack submarine units
30 destroyers, 6 squadrons of 5.
20 frigates, 2 flotillas of 10.
2 Heavy missile cruisers(HMS Centaur, HMS Caledon)
2 Light missile cruisers(HMS Edinburgh, HMS Falmouth)

Indian Ocean Fleet
1 attack submarine unit
10 destroyers, 2 squadrons of 5.
20 corvettes, 1 patrol of 20.
10 frigates, 1 flotilla of 10.
40 missile/torpedo boats, 1 group of 40.
1 Heavy missile cruiser(HMS Carlisle)
1 Light missile cruisers(HMS Nottingham)

Naval Reserves
Ships that have been mothballed are kept in drydock at Portsmouth and other naval bases until scrapped or recalled to service.
16 inch gun battleships: Temeraire, Conqueror, Thunder, Lion
1 ASW carrier battlegroup (HMS Courageous, HMS Glorious, HMS Furious)

Fleet Air Arm (with carriers)

5 Sea Hawk Carrier Aircraft
5 naval aviation pilots

The Royal Airforce

3 de Havilland Venom fighter-bombers (1 in UK, 1 in West Africa, 1 in Heligoland)
3 Gloster Javelin fighters (1 in UK, 1 in Singapore, 1 in Germany)
3 Hawker Hunter Aircraft (2 in UK, 1 in East Africa)
3 Lincoln air tanker (2 in UK, 1 in Germany)
3 Avro Vulcan Bombers (1 is UC) (3 in UK)
3 C54 air transport (2 in UK, 1 in Germany)
1 B47 bomber (1 in Germany)
20 pilot units (2 are UC)(with planes)
1 transport helicopter (in Germany)

The Army Reserves
Mostly territorial army units (30 days training per year), yeomanry cavalry units which are now mechanised and ex-servicemen who are still on the reserves list.

1 mechanised artillery units
4 mechanised divisions
1 HQ unit
1 armoured divisions

The Merchant Navy

35 merchant shipping units
10 Tech 6 Ocean Liners (represents 20 Queen Mary sized ocean liners). Protection 2, range 5, speed 6,

Merchant Airforce

5 pilots
1 domestic airline
4 international airline

Other Defences

4 Flak artillery (Coventry, Dover, London, Scapa Flow)

F/M-107 Austere

http://mars.walagata.com/w/artitsa/ColomPlane.JPG

Primary Function: All-Weather Escort, High-Speed Interceptor, Reccy
Contractor: Messerschmitt
Crew: One
Unit Cost: N/A
Powerplant
Two Messerschmitt & Sewell A001-H-12 turbojet engines rated at 19,500Lb (8,845Kg) each
Dimensions
Length: 71 feet 8 inches
Wingspan: 42 feet 3 inches
Height: 19 feet
Weights
Empty: 30,017 lbs (13,615.4Kg)
Maximum Takeoff: 56,100 lbs (25,446.5Kg)
Performance
Speed: Max. 1,027 mph
Ceiling: +40,000 ft
Range: 985mi Combat Radius, 1,694mi Refueled
Armament
Four 20 mm cannons, 1,620-pound bomb or 3,800-pound nuclear bomb, four Rocket Pods, Early A2A missile
Varients
F/M-107B: Single M & S A003-M-47 turbojet engine with afterburner rated at 33,000lb; Role: High Altitude Interception, Altitude vastly increased, speed reduced.
F/M-107C: Navalized Version
F/M-107D: (Not Completed) Upgraded RADAR and AWACs reciever; Improved Avionics.
There. You jerk. :cool:

First test flights of the Ht-1 Jin Helicopter occur outside Saigon. The results are good and both USEAA and UIMC generals present though highly of it.

With this stage completed Han Taik have gone forward with the project and manufacturing facilities will be ready for production to begin later in the year.

F/M-107 Austere

http://mars.walagata.com/w/artitsa/ColomPlane.JPG

Primary Function: All-Weather Escort, High-Speed Interceptor, Reccy
Contractor: Messerschmitt
Crew: One
Unit Cost: N/A
Powerplant
Two Messerschmitt & Sewell A001-H-12 turbojet engines rated at 19,500Lb (8,845Kg) each
Dimensions
Length: 71 feet 8 inches
Wingspan: 42 feet 3 inches
Height: 19 feet
Weights
Empty: 30,017 lbs (13,615.4Kg)
Maximum Takeoff: 56,100 lbs (25,446.5Kg)
Performance
Speed: Max. 1,027 mph
Ceiling: +40,000 ft
Range: 985mi Combat Radius, 1,694mi Refueled
Armament
Four 20 mm cannons, 1,620-pound bomb or 3,800-pound nuclear bomb, four Rocket Pods, Early A2A missile
Varients
F/M-107B: Single M & S A003-M-47 turbojet engine with afterburner rated at 33,000lb; Role: High Altitude Interception, Altitude vastly increased, speed reduced.
F/M-107C: Navalized Version
F/M-107D: (Not Completed) Upgraded RADAR and AWACs reciever; Improved Avionics.
There. You jerk. :cool:

I will add it to the front
M107 Austere combat rating 9, strike rating 2, range medium, all weather (Colombia)

it is a Third Generation fighter, so cost is 3, maintenance 1

ooc: It was modeled after the F-101 with slightly better engines ;) When do Sidewinders come oot?

ooc: It was modeled after the F-101 with slightly better engines ;) When do Sidewinders come oot?

that actually work? Another couple of years

I gave you more strike ability at the sacrifice of air combat ability, seeing as your most likely threat is strategic bombers, which aren't good at air to air combat, and this way you have a decent strike capability as well

And what about Anti-Shipping Missiles? Thats covered by paying ICBMs or what not, correct? If thats so, I've been wasting a lot of points.

And what about Anti-Shipping Missiles? Thats covered by paying ICBMs or what not, correct? If thats so, I've been wasting a lot of points.

you will get ASMs through the side door... just as Norway developed an anti ship missile without building ICBMs

How early could I expect Hawker P.1127 aircraft to turn up if the British government provides the funding for research. Unlike in RL where the British government cancelled or stalled many promising 1950's projects due to lack of funding.

I'm not expecting a miracle of a jump forwards, just perhaps a couple of years to reflect the fact that Hawker aren't having to scrat around to gather enough funds together to get the project started.

Is there any chance I could make a few subsidies to HK to get the G3 out sooner?

How early could I expect Hawker P.1127 aircraft to turn up if the British government provides the funding for research. Unlike in RL where the British government cancelled or stalled many promising 1950's projects due to lack of funding.

I'm not expecting a miracle of a jump forwards, just perhaps a couple of years to reflect the fact that Hawker aren't having to scrat around to gather enough funds together to get the project started.

vertical take off aircraft, like the Kestrel, as well as attack helicopters, swing wing aircraft, Mach 3 aircraft, Mach 4+ aircraft, air to air missiles that have a decent reliability rate and similiar high tech programs will all require research points

or will cost a lot to reflect the research costs. We are about to hit the point historically when the price of aircraft and weapons markedly increased and it gets worse at the century progresses.

Still working on exactly how to reflect that.

vertical take off aircraft, like the Kestrel, as well as attack helicopters, swing wing aircraft, Mach 3 aircraft, Mach 4+ aircraft, air to air missiles that have a decent reliability rate and similiar high tech programs will all require research points

or will cost a lot to reflect the research costs. We are about to hit the point historically when the price of aircraft and weapons markedly increased and it gets worse at the century progresses.

Still working on exactly how to reflect that.

Research for each of these costs 24 points each, correct? I remember research = same cost as building a production center. Or are we using a new system to calculate research costs?

New Colombian Naval Vessel
http://mars.walagata.com/w/artitsa/NEWSD4.PNG

Research for each of these costs 24 points each, correct? I remember research = same cost as building a production center. Or are we using a new system to calculate research costs?

that is what is being determined (costs)

New Colombian Naval Vessel
http://mars.walagata.com/w/artitsa/NEWSD4.PNG

based on what the picture shows, that white elephant would cost 30 points at least, and take 5 years to build, and cost 3 points a year to maintain.

Needless to say, the Navy isn't real excited about it.

1. I was kidding.
2. Only 30 points?! Mang, Artitsa is actually spending something like 250 to 300 billion on that.
3. It has VLS tubes, MTHELs, CIWS, ASHUM guns, ETC-ER guns, Millenium Guns, and 1000mm ultra-heavy weight torpedoes... Im not sure if those came out in 1950 ;)

1. I was kidding.
2. Only 30 points?! Mang, Artitsa is actually spending something like 250 to 300 billion on that.
3. It has VLS tubes, MTHELs, CIWS, ASHUM guns, ETC-ER guns, Millenium Guns, and 1000mm ultra-heavy weight torpedoes... Im not sure if those came out in 1950 ;)

Awwww, I want one :).

We can discuss it for regular NS. I have a few other SD designs as well. Out of the three... this would prolly be the least protected, as in, it has the most vulnerable points, but, it looks the prettiest.

1. I was kidding.
2. Only 30 points?! Mang, Artitsa is actually spending something like 250 to 300 billion on that.
3. It has VLS tubes, MTHELs, CIWS, ASHUM guns, ETC-ER guns, Millenium Guns, and 1000mm ultra-heavy weight torpedoes... Im not sure if those came out in 1950 ;)

I was giving it 18 inch guns and a helicopter flying deck fore and aft.

a tech level 9 version of that (which is what you are describing) cost 50 points and takes 10 points a year to maintain.

and will not be available this century

18"? It was actually 28"... muahahah!

Anyways, The Colombian Government asks Porsche if they are capable of producing a tank similar to the T-54 and the American Tanks.

18"? It was actually 28"... muahahah!

Anyways, The Colombian Government asks Porsche if they are capable of producing a tank similar to the T-54 and the American Tanks.

he is working on it...

he better be! *cracks whip*

Is there any general noise from the population of Gran Colombia?

1. I was kidding.
2. Only 30 points?! Mang, Artitsa is actually spending something like 250 to 300 billion on that.
3. It has VLS tubes, MTHELs, CIWS, ASHUM guns, ETC-ER guns, Millenium Guns, and 1000mm ultra-heavy weight torpedoes... Im not sure if those came out in 1950 ;)

I don't even know what MTHEL's, ASHUM, ETC-ER, and Millennium Guns are. All I know is the VLS tubes = missiles, right? And 1000mm heavy weight torpedoes = underwater ICBM missiles, correct?

MTHELs are mobile laser platforms for theatre air defense. ASHUM guns are underwater CIWS using bullets that super-cavitate. ETC-ER is an acronym for Electro-Thermal-Chemical -- Electromagnetic Rifled Gun... ETC is basically the earlier version of a Railgun. It uses a chunk of metal as a propellent with the chemicals acting as a catalyst. The EM rifling allows the barrel to be rifled without the same wear and tear as regular rifling and also much less friction resulting in higher muzzle velocities. Millenium Guns are... well... a CIWS system that is teh sex. 1000mm torpedo tubes have yet to be invented but mine are supercavitating with a hyooge range and warhead for pwning SD's.

MTHELs are mobile laser platforms for theatre air defense. ASHUM guns are underwater CIWS using bullets that super-cavitate. ETC-ER is an acronym for Electro-Thermal-Chemical -- Electromagnetic Rifled Gun... ETC is basically the earlier version of a Railgun. It uses a chunk of metal as a propellent with the chemicals acting as a catalyst. The EM rifling allows the barrel to be rifled without the same wear and tear as regular rifling and also much less friction resulting in higher muzzle velocities. Millenium Guns are... well... a CIWS system that is teh sex. 1000mm torpedo tubes have yet to be invented but mine are supercavitating with a hyooge range and warhead for pwning SD's.

Thanks for the explaination, bro. I appreciate it a lot =)

18"? It was actually 28"... muahahah!

Anyways, The Colombian Government asks Porsche if they are capable of producing a tank similar to the T-54 and the American Tanks.

Actually, the Liberals want more money in foreign aid, and less in military spending. While the Conservatives want a tax cut and less military spending.

ooc: BAH! I'll military spending their face! Actually I prolly have enough money for both... how much would a tax cut cost me?

ooc: BAH! I'll military spending their face! Actually I prolly have enough money for both... how much would a tax cut cost me?

Considerable concern at the national level about the need for a nuclear program and continued need for a carrier fleet... both are expensive.

France would like to increase its research on aircraft development, we have seen and liked the potential the Dassault group has to offer, therefore we offer them the contract to research new aircraft designs.

OOC: How much will this cost if I am aiming for the Dassault Super Mystère Fighter-Bomber?

General characteristics

Crew: One
Length: 14.0 m (45 ft 11 in)
Wingspan: 10.1 m (33 ft 2 in)
Height: 4.6 m (15 ft 1 in)
Wing area: 32.0 m² (344 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,390 kg (14,090 lb)
Loaded weight: 9,000 kg (19,800 lb)
Maximum gross takeoff weight: 10,000 kg (22,000 lb)
Fuel capacity: 2,000 kg (4,400 lb)
Powerplant: 1x SNECMA Atar 101G-2 axial compressor turbojet, 7,490 lbf (33.3 kN) dry thrust; 9,920 lbf (44.1 kN) with afterburner.

Performance

Maximum speed: 1,195 km/h (743 mph) at 11,000 m (36,100 ft) (Mach 1.12)
Combat range: 870 km (540 mi)
Ferry range: 1,175 km (730 mi)
Service ceiling: 17,000 m (55,800 ft)
Climb rate: 89 m/s (17,500 ft/min)
Wing loading: 281 kg/m² (57.6 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 0.50

Armament

2x 30 mm DEFA cannon
Up to 900 kg (1,980 lb) on two wet underwing pylons, including fuel tanks, bombs, unguided rockets, MBDA AS 30 or Rafael Shafrir missiles.

Hmm. I have a couple of questions but not sure who will respond now that GB's semi-gone.

First, Dassault moved to China, leaving only a civilian aircraft plant in France, correct?

Second, I'm under the assumption that France couldn't build military aircraft? Or has this changed?

Hmm. I have a couple of questions but not sure who will respond now that GB's semi-gone.

First, Dassault moved to China, leaving only a civilian aircraft plant in France, correct?

Second, I'm under the assumption that France couldn't build military aircraft? Or has this changed?

Almost positive the first part is true. As for limits on French military, those may have been relaxed--i know the army restrictions were, although I dont think the navy limit was.

Almost positive the first part is true. As for limits on French military, those may have been relaxed--i know the army restrictions were, although I dont think the navy limit was.

Hmm- I know that Dassault moved to China because France could not build any military aircraft, and also because China was a huge propsective market for future aircraft production.

So I'm not sure where or how France became able to build Dassault military planes?

Dassault certainly moved to China, I know that the army limit was lifted and that the navy limit wasn't. As to the airforce, I haven't been able to find any mention of it on the UN thread where the situation was brought up or from a quick search. I'll keep looking though.

Dassault certainly moved to China, I know that the army limit was lifted and that the navy limit wasn't. As to the airforce, I haven't been able to find any mention of it on the UN thread where the situation was brought up or from a quick search. I'll keep looking though.

If we cant find any mention of it I would assume they were under strict restrictions similar to those inflicted on china after the war with Japan--no bombers or aircraft with more than 2 engines, and limits on numbers and quality.

The production facilities for the Ht-1 Jin Transport helicopter outside Bangkok have finished preperations and are ready to accept orders. The helicopter is for sale in both the civilian and military markets.

(N.B. Going rate is 3 points per unit, but SCT members get discounted at 2 points.)

Hmm- I know that Dassault moved to China because France could not build any military aircraft, and also because China was a huge propsective market for future aircraft production.

So I'm not sure where or how France became able to build Dassault military planes?

Dassault kept some plants in France as well as shifting operations to China.

China is under no military limits as the Japanese Chinese treaty was voided by Japan when it attacked China again in the 3rd Sino-Japanese War

Dassault kept some plants in France as well as shifting operations to China.

China is under no military limits as the Japanese Chinese treaty was voided by Japan when it attacked China again in the 3rd Sino-Japanese War

i know, i was just using the past incident as an example