NationStates Jolt Archive

Yugoslav Military

Ground Units:
1st Alpine Corps-Ohrid
1st Infantry Corps-Zagreb
1st Armored Corps-Skopje
2nd Armored Corps-Beograd
Yugoslav Central Command-HQ unit-Sarajevo

Air Units:
1st Air Fleet[FW-190D Fighters]-Split
2nd Air Fleet[JU-87 bombers]-Petrovec

Naval Units
Alexandre-Federation class light cruiser tech 6
1st Podmorski Flottille 10 Tech 6 submarines

French ORBAT

Active Army[/b]
1xMechanized Corp (Calais)
1xMechanized Corp (Paris)
1xAlpine Corp (Italian Border)
1xAlpine Corp (Spanish Border)
1x HQ (PAris)
1xMachanized Field Artillery (Spanish Border)

[u]Reserve Army
18xCoastal Artillery Batteries (Atlantic Coast)
2xFlak Batteries (Calais, Brest)
1xMechanized Corp (Brest)
1xMechanized Corp (Bordeaux)
1xAlpine Corps (Spanish Border)
1xMarine Corp (Marseille)
1xMechanized Anti-Tank Unit (Paris)

Active Air Corp
1xFIghter Unit (DW520, Paris)
1xLight Bomber Unit (LN.411, Paris)
1xNaval Bomber (Stuka, Brest)
3xPilots

Reserve Air Corp
2xFighter Units (DW520, Marsellie, Brest)
1xNaval Bomber Unit (Stuka, Calais)
1xLight Bomber Unit (LN.411, Bordeaux)
4xPilots

Active Navy
2xDestroyer Flotillas (Marseille, Brest)
2xSubmarine Groups (Marseille, Brest)
5xLight Cruisers (Kirov, Libertie, Brest[/i], Vengeance, Destructor[/i], Marsellies)
2xHeavy Cruisers (Papillion, Revenant, Marseilles)
1xFleet Carrier (Victory, Marseilles)
2xEscort Carriers (Equalitie, Fraternatie Marseille)
1xBattleship (Richelieu, preparing for shakedown cruise, Marseille)

2xCarrier Fighters (onboard Victory, onboard Equalitie)
2xCarrier Bombers (onboard Victory, onboard Fraternitie)

4xCarrier Pilots
I know I can't spell. So sue me.


France begins to train black colonials up to French standards so that they can begin replacing white, French troops. This includes providing them with modern equipment. The 1st Mechanized Colonial Corps is slated for next year.

Revised British deployment (for 1939):

The Army

1 HQ unit (in London)
3 mechanized corps (1 in Suez, 1 in Burma, 1 in UK)
2 armoured cavalry corps (1 in UK, 1 in the Sudan)
2 motorised field artillery units (both in UK)
1 amphibious marines unit (Portsmouth)
2 garrison units (Suez, Singapore)

The Royal Navy

Home Fleet
Majority stationed at Scapa Flow in the Orkney Islands, but HMS Queen Elizabeth, HMS Hermes, 1 sub unit, 20 destroyers and 5 light cruisers will operate from Portsmouth.

4 Tech 6 Battleships attack 5, protection 8, speed 6, range 7 (16" guns) 1 available in 1940 (last one being built at HMNB Portsmouth) HMS Lion, Temeraire, Conqueror and Thunder.
2 Modernised Nelson class battleships (which become 5 attack, 6 defence, 3 speed and 5 range), HMS Nelson, HMS Rodney
1 Tech 6 Fleet carrier protection 2, speed 6, range 6, (80 – 100 aircraft), HMS Hermes,
1 Tech 6 Light carriers protection 1, speed 6, range 6, (40 -55 aircraft), HMS Argus
3 Tech 6 submarine units (30 submarines), attack 1, protection 0, speed 3, range 5,
6 Tech 6 Light ship (60 destroyers ) attack 1, defence 1, speed 7, range 4
5 Tech 6 heavy cruiser attack 1, defence 2, speed 7, range 6, HMS Centaur, HMS Caledon, HMS Ceres, HMS Caroline, HMS Cambrian,
11 Tech 6 light cruiser attack 1, defence 1, speed 7 range 6, HMS Derby, HMS Yarmouth, HMS Dartmouth, HMS Chester, HMS Dublin, HMS Abergaveny, HMS Gloucester, HMS Chichester, HMS Liverpool, HMS Belfast, HMS Lowestoft,

Mediteranean Fleet

3 Battleships, 1 fleet carrier, 10 subs, 20 destroyers and 3 light cruisers operate from Gibraltar. 2 light cruisers, 10 subs and 20 destroyers operate from Port Said in Egypt and the remainder from Valetta in Malta.

5 King George V class battleships (4 attack, protection 5, speed 6 and range 5). HMS King George V, HMS Prince of Wales, HMS Duke of York, HMS Anson, HMS Howe
1 Tech 6 Fleet carrier protection 2, speed 6, range 6, (80 – 100 aircraft), HMS Vindictive,
1 Tech 6 Light carrier protection 1, speed 6, range 6, (40 -55 aircraft), HMS Courageous,
2 Tech 6 submarine units (20 submarines), attack 1, protection 0, speed 3, range 5,
6 Tech 6 Light ship (60 destroyers ) attack 1, defence 1, speed 7, range 4
2 Tech 6 heavy cruiser attack 1, defence 2, speed 7, range 6, HMS Frobisher, HMS Effingham,
5 Tech 6 light cruiser attack 1, defence 1, speed 7 range 6, HMS Glasgow, HMS Edinburgh, HMS Falmouth, HMS Nottingham, HMS Worcester.

Pacific Fleet

Hood, Eagle, 20 subs, 40 destroyers, Hawkins, Vindictive, Raleigh and 4 light cruisers to operate from Singapore. HMS Edinburgh, HMS Hull, 20 destroyers and 10 subs from Nauru, Kiribati, the Phoenix Islands and Kiritmati. Remainder to operate from Fiji.

1 modernised HMS Hood (4 attack, 5 defence, 7 speed and range 6), HMS Hood
1 Tech 6 Fleet carrier protection 2, speed 6, range 6, (80 – 100 aircraft), HMS Eagle,
2 Tech 6 Light carrier protection 1, speed 6, range 6, (40 -55 aircraft), HMS Furious, HMS Glorious,
3 Tech 6 submarine units (30 submarines), attack 1, protection 0, speed 3, range 5,
8 Tech 6 Light ship (80 destroyers) attacks 1, defence 1, speed 7, range 4
3 Tech 6 heavy cruiser attack 1, defence 2, speed 7, range 6, HMS Hawkins, HMS Vindictive, HMS Raleigh,
8 Tech 6 light cruiser attack 1, defence 1, speed 7 range 6, HMS Bristol, HMS Chatham, HMS Weymouth, HMS Birkenhead, HMS Birmingham, HMS Manchester, HMS Hull, HMS Edinburgh,

Naval Reserves
Kept mothballed in drydock at HMNB Portsmouth

4 modernised Queen Elizabeth class battleships (4 attack, 5 defence, 4 speed and range 5), HMS Queen Elizabeth, HMS Warspite, HMS Barham, HMS Valiant

Fleet Air Arm

3 carrier fighter units
4 carrier bomber units (2 torpedo, 2 dive bomber)
7 naval aviation pilots

The Royal Airforce
5 bombers (Avro Lancasters, 4 engine) (2 in Southern England, 2 in Midlands, 1 in Malta)
5 UK fighters (Supermarine Spitfires) (1 in Southern England, 1 in Midlands, 1 in Singapore, 1 in Suez)
3 De Havilland Mosquito Fighter-Bombers (1 in Suez, 1 in Malta, 1 in Singapore)
13 pilot units (with aircraft)

RAF Reserves

On a similar basis to the TA with 30 days training a year, most will hold down piloting jobs or else are keen amateur pilots. Bases given are for call up depots.

3 pilot units (London, Birmingham, Edinburgh)
2 naval aviation pilots (Portsmouth, Plymouth)

The Army Reserves

Mostly Territorial Army units (30 days training per year), old yeomanry cavalry units which are now mechanised and ex-servicemen who are still on the reserves list. Bases given are for depots that they form at when called up.

1 Field Artillery (The Honourable artillery Company at London)
3 8 point mechanised corps (Birmingham, London, Edinburgh)
1 HQ unit (London)
2 Garrisons (London, Dover)

The Merchant Navy

35 merchant shipping units
10 Tech 6 Ocean Liners (represents 20 Queen Mary sized ocean liners). Protection 2, range 5, speed 6,

Merchant Airforce

2 pilots
1 domestic airline
1 international airline

Fixed Defences

4 Flak artillery (Coventry, Dover, Scapa Flow, London)
2 Coast artillery (Dover, Scapa Flow)
2 Fortifications (Dover, Scapa Flow)

Under Construction

1 Tech 6 Super battleship attack 6, protection 8, speed 5, range 5, (18" guns), ready 1941 (being built at Clydebank dockyards, Scotland), to be known as HMS Vanguard
1 Tech 6.5 Heavy Carrier, ready 1941. To be known as HMS Sovereign of the Seas

Military of the Federated States of India, 1939

Army:
I Motorized Corp (Peshawar)
II Motorized Corp (Naini Tal)
III Motorized Corp (Poona)
IV Motorized Corp (Bombay)
V Motorized Corp (Bangalore)
VI Motorized Corp (Bhopal)
VII Motorized Corp (Karachi)
VIII Motorized Corp (Dhaka)
I Mechanized Infantry Corp (Calcutta)
I HQ Corp (Delhi)

Airforce:
I Fighter Group (Hawker Hurricane, based in Delhi)
1 Pilot

Navy:
10 level 5 Arethusa class light cruisers (Bombay)

Merchant Navy:
1,000,000 tons of shipping

US deployment 1939
Mediterranean Command
Moroccan Defense forces: 1 Mountain corps (Casablanca), 1 garrison unit (Tangiers), 2 anti aircraft units (1 each Casablanca, Tangiers), 1 P47 fighter unit, 1 pilot, 1 light ship unit (40 corvettes),
US 6th Fleet (based at Casablanca), 1 USN B25, 1 USAAF P47, 2 submarine units (20 submarines), 5 heavy cruisers, 2 light ship units (30 destroyer escorts),

European Command
1 USAAF B17G unit (England), US Advisory and Liaison groups in Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Burgundy, 1 US Flak unit (Casablanca)

Atlantic Command
1 USN B24 unit (Iceland), 1 USN B24 unit (Azores), 2 USN 24 units (US East coast),
US 2nd Fleet (US East Coast)
5 heavy cruisers, 4 light ship units (60 destroyer escorts), 1 submarine unit (10 submarines), 1 amphibious fleet
US Army Panama with 2 flak units, 1 fortification,
US Army Strategic Reserve with 1 airborne corps, 1 amphibious corps, 1 C54, 1 C47

Pacific Command
1 B24 unit (US West Coast), 1 B25 unit (Manila), 1 B25 unit (Dutch Harbor)
US 1st Fleet (Dutch Harbor)
5 light cruisers, 2 light ship units (30 destroyer escorts), 1 submarine unit (10 submarines)
US 3rd Fleet (US West coast)
16 fleet carriers, 8 fast battleships, 12 antiaircraft cruisers, 8 light ship units (80 destroyers), 2 light ship units (30 destroyer escorts) 1 amphibious fleet
US 5th Fleet (Hawaii)
2 light ship units (30 destroyer escorts), 2 submarine units (20 submarines)
US 7th Fleet (Manila)
5 heavy cruisers, 3 light ship units (45 destroyer escorts), 2 submarine units (20 submarines)
US Army Philippines with 1 garrison unit, 2 flak units, 1 motorized corps,1 fortification, 1 P47, 1 B25
US Army Hawaii 1 amphibious corps, 1 flak unit, 1 fortification, 1 P47, 1 B25
US Army Truk 1 flak unit, 1 fortification
USMC (West coast) 1 amphibious corps
US Army Alaska with 1 mountain corps, 1 flak unit, 1 P38, 1 B17G

Home forces
3 B17G, 4 B25, 4 B26, 1 P38, 6 P47, 4 HQs, 2 armored corps, 16 mechanized corps, 2 motorized corps, 3 motorized artillery units, 3 field artillery units, 14 flak units,

US Armed Forces 1939
US Navy
Carrier Aviation (maintenance 16 points including pilots)

16 tech level 6 fleet carriers: Enterprise, Yorktown, Wasp, Hornet, Ranger, Bon Homme Richard, Essex, Kitty Hawk, Constellation, Constitution, Intrepid, America, Oriskany, Lake Erie, Lake Champlain, Mobile Bay (all are 100 aircraft, protection 3, speed 6, range 6, Essex class has a protection of 4, Oriskany class have protection of 5) 9 Corsairs, 1 Tigercat (carrier night fighter), 6 Avenger, 16 pilots

Surface force and other ships (maintenance 16 points)
2 tech level 6 Fast super battleships (Montana, Texas) (firepower 6, protection 12, speed 5, range 6)
6 tech level 6 Fast battleships: North Carolina, Washington, South Dakota, Alabama, South Dakota, Indiana, (firepower 5, protection 6, speed 5, range 6)

Heavy cruisers
15 tech level 6 Heavy cruisers (all are firepower 1, protection 2, speed 6, range 6)
Chester, Pensacola, Salt Lake City, Houston, Northhampton, Chicago, Augusta, Quincy, Portland, Astoria, Tuscaloosa, Vincennes, Indianapolis, Newport News, Salem, Vincennes, Wichita, Baltimore

Light cruisers
5 tech level 6 Brooklyn class (firepower 1, protection 1, speed 7, range 6) Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Savannah, Nashville, Boise

Antiaircraft cruisers
12 tech level 6 Atlanta class (firepower 1, protection 1, speed 7, range 6), Atlanta, Juneau, San Pedro, San Juan, San Diego, San Antonio, San Pedro, Duluth, Galveston, Los Angeles, Hampton, Biloxi,

Destroyers
150 tech level 6 destroyer escorts, (15 light ships), 120 tech level 6 destroyers (8 light ships)

Submarines
80 tech level 6 submarines (8 submarine units)

Laid up in reserve (all on East Coast)
2 tech level 6 fleet carriers (modernized) Lexington, Saratoga
3 tech 6(modernized) (16 inch) Battleships: Colorado, Maryland, West Virginia (firepower 5, protection 6, speed 3, range 5)
5 tech 6 (modernized)(14 inch) battleships Tennessee, New Mexico, Mississippi, Idaho, Pennsylvania ( firepower 4, protection 6, speed 3, and range 5)
4 tech level 6 (modernized) light carriers:, Theodore Roosevelt, William McKinley,
George Washington, Abraham Lincoln (4 x 55 aircraft, protection 1, speed 5, range 5, 4 x 55 aircraft, protection 1, speed 6, range 6)
9 Tech level 6 (modernized) Omaha class (firepower 1, protection 2, speed 6, range 6) Omaha, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Marblehead, Trenton, Detroit, Concord, Richmond, Memphis, Luzon, Mindanao, Paney, Cebu, Samar, Guam
2 amphibious fleets

Transport and shipping
2 amphibious fleets
2 transport units
3 liner units (released back to civilian service)
33 shipping units (15 million tons) commercial fleet, (includes some excess shipping to commerce limit)

US Landbased Naval Aviation (maintenance 17 points)
3 B25, 3 B24, 6 pilots plus 3 B24 (navy reserve), 3 pilots (navy reserve)

Marine Corps (maintenance 1 point)
1 Amphibious corps

US Army Air Force (includes reserves) ( 17 maintenance points including pilots)
2 heavy bomber unit (B17G), 1 heavy air transport unit (C54), 1 Air transport unit (DC3), 2 fighter units (P38), 4 fighter units (P47), 4 bomber units (2 B25, 2 B26), 16 pilots (2 in reserve)

US Air National Guard and Army Air Force Reserve (16 points including pilots)
2 heavy bomber units (B17G) 5 bomber units (3 B25, 2 B26), 5 fighter units (P47), 14 pilots

Regular Army (6.5 points)
4 mechanized corps (2 divisions each), 2 armored corps (2 divisions each), 2 amphibious corps (2 divisions each) 1 mountain corps (2 divisions), 1 airborne infantry corps (2 divisions) 3 motorized field artillery units, 6 flak units

National Guard and Reserve (15.5 points)
4 headquarters units, 14 mechanized corps (2 divisions each), 3 motorized corps (2 divisions each), 1 garrison unit (Manila), 3 field artillery units, 16 flak units, 4 fortifications (Truk, Manila, Panama, Oahu)

also 1 national airline, 1 international airline, plus 2 pilots (remain unmobilized at this time, but subject to mobilization to the Army if needed)

Total Maintenance 105 points

China's Military as of 1939:

8 Mechanized Infantry
13 Garrison Units
3 Infantry Units
5 DW-520 Plane Units (from France)
2 A-20 Bomber Plane Units (from USA)
1 IK-2 Fighter Plane Unit (from Yugoslavia)
7 Pilots
1 Armored Corps (250 Panther and 250 Tiger tanks from France)
9 Flak Units
3 Anti-Tank Units
1 Light Ship Counter (40 Patrol Boats)

For political reasons we doubt we will be able to sell the IK-3 fighter to you, also we would like to ask, where in the world did china get Tigers and Panthers from?

In talks with China, the US agrees to allow China to purchase older aircraft, tanks and other military equipment and vehicles from the United States.

ooc
P47 fighters (1 point each), B25 bombers (2 points each), Sherman tanks with 75 mm guns, modern anti aircraft guns and artillery etc. Basically to buy, spend 1 point per fighter, 2 points per bomber, and .25 points per ground unit to represent the arms purchases desired. By the way, the P47 is equal to any Japanese or Union fighter at the moment.

Yugoslavia, he got Tigers and Panthers from the French

For political reasons we doubt we will be able to sell the IK-3 fighter to you, also we would like to ask, where in the world did china get Tigers and Panthers from?

France were selling them to China and China took them up on that offer.

The FS Richelieu prepares for it's shakedown cruise around the Mediterrianian. The final touches are being made on France's first battleship since the Second Great War. It will skirt the boot of Italy and stop in at Yugoslavia and from there it wil go east, to Istanbul. It will then take a southerly route until it reaches the coast of Africa and head west to the Straits of Gibraltar. Then it will cruise north along the Spanish and French coasts, through the English Channel and into the Baltic. It will stop in Germany, then make it's way to the Soviet port of Leningrad [OOC: I have no clue if it's actually called that in this timeline...]. Then it will return to Brest and from there to Marseille.

France were selling them to China and China took them up on that offer.

Well, you came to us first...Regardless, I made good money off selling tanks. Yay me!

In talks with China, the US agrees to allow China to purchase older aircraft, tanks and other military equipment and vehicles from the United States.

ooc
P47 fighters (1 point each), B25 bombers (2 points each), Sherman tanks with 75 mm guns, modern anti aircraft guns and artillery etc. Basically to buy, spend 1 point per fighter, 2 points per bomber, and .25 points per ground unit to represent the arms purchases desired. By the way, the P47 is equal to any Japanese or Union fighter at the moment.

Yugoslavia, he got Tigers and Panthers from the French

OOC:

I can start buying US stuff in 1940 when I get my extra few points from rural electrification and natural growth.

oh well, good tanks are one thing, at least we will still have better planes :P

The French begin producing the FW-190 under liscense as the new fighter for the FAA.

Hey GB would these be okay for tech level 6 cruisers that Korea could build?

Name: Seoul Class Light Cruiser
Displacement: 9,700 tons
Length: 185 m
Beam: 18.9 m
Draft: 7.3 m
Speed: 34 knots/ 22 knots cruising
Complement: 870 officers and enlisted
Armament: 8 x 7in , 6 x 5-inch guns, 4 × 3 533 mm torpedo-tubes
Protection: sides: 68 mm, deck: 45 mm, turrets: 122 mm


Name: Saigon Class Heavy Cruiser
Displacement: 18,600 tons
Length: 210 m
Beam: 21.8 m
Draft: 7.9 m
Speed: 32 knots/ 19 knots cruising
Complement: 1,600 officers and enlisted
Armament: 12 x 10-in guns, 4 x 4.1-in guns, 12 x 37 mm guns, 8 x 21-in torpedo tubes, 160 x mines
Protection: sides: 80 mm, deck: 60 mm, turrets: 160 mm

Hey GB would these be okay for tech level 6 cruisers that Korea could build?

Name: Seoul Class Light Cruiser
Displacement: 9,700 tons
Length: 185 m
Beam: 18.9 m
Draft: 7.3 m
Speed: 34 knots/ 22 knots cruising
Complement: 870 officers and enlisted
Armament: 8 x 7in , 6 x 5-inch guns, 4 × 3 533 mm torpedo-tubes
Protection: sides: 68 mm, deck: 45 mm, turrets: 122 mm


Name: Saigon Class Heavy Cruiser
Displacement: 18,600 tons
Length: 210 m
Beam: 21.8 m
Draft: 7.9 m
Speed: 32 knots/ 19 knots cruising
Complement: 1,600 officers and enlisted
Armament: 12 x 10-in guns, 4 x 4.1-in guns, 12 x 37 mm guns, 8 x 21-in torpedo tubes, 160 x mines
Protection: sides: 80 mm, deck: 60 mm, turrets: 160 mm

are they based on real ships? 7 inch and 10 inch guns are outdated, I would recommend duel purpose 5 inch guns for the light cruiser (making it an anti aircraft ship), and 8 inch guns for the heavy

The first flights of the B35 Flying Wing and B29 Superfortress take place. The USAAF is expected to order both after additional testing in 1939. The B36 is still under development and a year away from its first flight. Meanwhile, the British and Americans are flight testing the Gloster Meteor and Bell P59. Both have serious issues and are not sufficiently superior to piston engined aircraft to warrant production. The Lockheed P80, De Haviland Vampire, and other jet types are still on the drawing boards.

Meanwhile, the Germans have working prototypes of the ME262 and are conducting tests. This aircraft will be ready for production by 1940.

China's Military as of 1939:

8 Mechanized Infantry
13 Garrison Units
3 Infantry Units
5 DW-520 Plane Units (from France)
2 A-20 Bomber Plane Units (from USA)
1 IK-2 Fighter Plane Unit (from Yugoslavia)
7 Pilots
1 Armored Corps (250 Panther and 250 Tiger tanks from France)
9 Flak Units
3 Anti-Tank Units
1 Light Ship Counter (40 Patrol Boats)

Update and revised list as follows...

China's Military as of 1939:

12 Mechanized Infantry (4 garrisons being upgraded to Mechanized Infantry)
9 Garrison Units
3 Infantry Units
5 DW-520 Plane Units (from France)
2 A-20 Bomber Plane Units (from USA)
7 Pilots
1 Armored Corps (250 Panther and 250 Tiger tanks from France)
9 Flak Units
3 Anti-Tank Units
1 Light Ship Counter (40 Patrol Boats)

are they based on real ships? 7 inch and 10 inch guns are outdated, I would recommend duel purpose 5 inch guns for the light cruiser (making it an anti aircraft ship), and 8 inch guns for the heavy

The Saigon Class is sort of based off the admiral Hipper while the Seoul is basically made up.
Hows this?

Name: Seoul Class Light Cruiser
Displacement: 9,700 tons
Length: 185 m
Beam: 18.9 m
Draft: 7.3 m
Speed: 34 knots/ 22 knots cruising
Complement: 870 officers and enlisted
Armament: 8 x 5in , 6 x 3.1-inch guns, 4 × 3 533 mm torpedo-tubes
Protection: sides: 68 mm, deck: 45 mm, turrets: 122 mm


Name: Saigon Class Heavy Cruiser
Displacement: 18,600 tons
Length: 210 m
Beam: 21.8 m
Draft: 7.9 m
Speed: 32 knots/ 19 knots cruising
Complement: 1,600 officers and enlisted
Armament: 12 x 8-in guns, 4 x 4.1-in guns, 12 x 37 mm guns, 8 x 21-in torpedo tubes, 160 x mines
Protection: sides: 80 mm, deck: 60 mm, turrets: 160 mm

The Saigon Class is sort of based off the admiral Hipper while the Seoul is basically made up.
Hows this?



those are fine

those are fine

Great now me and Korea can start mass producing them. Muhahaha:D

Great now me and Korea can start mass producing them. Muhahaha:D

use the costs at the start of this thread for light cruiser and heavy cruiser, but add 1 point to the cost of the heavy cruiser as this class is bigger than standard.

Ah okay

The Japanese fleet is ordered out to sea though much more of the fleet than originally planed is looking for 'outside' intervention. The army also begins to practice landing manuvers and manuals with basic vietnamese words are handed out.

ooc
I do not intend to post die rolls and odds as I did during the 2nd Great War for the 3rd Sino-Japanese War unless absolutely necessary. Its not very exciting reading in my opinion. Any dissent?

I will post numbers when US forces are involved in combat however, should it come up.

ooc
I do not intend to post die rolls and odds as I did during the 2nd Great War for the 3rd Sino-Japanese War unless absolutely necessary. Its not very exciting reading in my opinion. Any dissent?

I will post numbers when US forces are involved in combat however, should it come up.

Perhaps some tactics, then?

Also what of gurriella or armed resistance like what Afghanistan did in RL?

I liked your post GB, so i have no problems with the style you used.

BTW Sharina, Afganistan is VERY different from China, the Afghan warlords were rugged mountain people receiving tons of support from the Pakistani, and US Governments. Those people fought their entire lives, and that was a 10 year war. Best you could probably pull off would be a Marquis style resistance, blowing bridges, things like that, i foresee very little direct gurrilla conflict for several years until the strategy is proved after the MEU civil war, and weapons production kicks up like RL cold war did, giving a source of weapons for guerrillas.

Perhaps some tactics, then?

Also what of gurriella or armed resistance like what Afghanistan did in RL?

too soon for that, for one thing, you haven't actually been invaded just yet

I liked your post GB, so i have no problems with the style you used.

BTW Sharina, Afganistan is VERY different from China, the Afghan warlords were rugged mountain people receiving tons of support from the Pakistani, and US Governments. Those people fought their entire lives, and that was a 10 year war. Best you could probably pull off would be a Marquis style resistance, blowing bridges, things like that, i foresee very little direct gurrilla conflict for several years until the strategy is proved after the MEU civil war, and weapons production kicks up like RL cold war did, giving a source of weapons for guerrillas.

Who says the MEU civil war will turn out favorably for the guerrillas?

Wars never turn out "favorably" for the guerrillas, look at vietnam, 4 million dead on the Vietnamese side, Guerrilla's don't win wars, they merely tire out the enemy. Vietnam wasn't one by the North until the NVA invaded in force. And the Russians pulled out of Afghanistan as they said to prevent, "Leaving the country from the top of the embassy."

Wars never turn out "favorably" for the guerrillas, look at vietnam, 4 million dead on the Vietnamese side, Guerrilla's don't win wars, they merely tire out the enemy. Vietnam wasn't one by the North until the NVA invaded in force. And the Russians pulled out of Afghanistan as they said to prevent, "Leaving the country from the top of the embassy."

You know, there was one Guerrilla movement that beat back it's enemy with little outside interference. Look up the history of your country in RL WWII, IM, and you'll see what it was ;).

If you are referring to the Chetniks, and commies than yeah, but considering the two groups hated the Nazi's as much as each other it was hard for a truely united front to be presented. Though the Communists did control part of the country most of the time, the Russians were the key to victory.

You know, there was one Guerrilla movement that beat back it's enemy with little outside interference. Look up the history of your country in RL WWII, IM, and you'll see what it was ;).

Tito had a lot of help, and a lot of the "German" forces where actually Yugoslav troops.... it was more of a civil war at times than war against the Germans

Tito had a lot of help, and a lot of the "German" forces where actually Yugoslav troops.... it was more of a civil war at times than war against the Germans

Pffft, the Russians didn't do much at all. They only sent in troops at the very end of the war. It was Yugoslavs doing almost all of the fighting.

Also, you could argue that any guerrilla war is a civil war.

You know, there was one Guerrilla movement that beat back it's enemy with little outside interference. Look up the history of your country in RL WWII, IM, and you'll see what it was ;).
Da zdravstvuyet Slovenija!!!!! Slava!!! Slava Partizani!!!!

Pffft, the Russians didn't do much at all. They only sent in troops at the very end of the war. It was Yugoslavs doing almost all of the fighting.

Also, you could argue that any guerrilla war is a civil war.

No, Yugoslavia was a REAL civil war lol, you had three sides really. The breakaway pro-nazi's(Croatia), the Anti-Nazi Commies(Tito), and the Chetniks(Nedic i believe was one) who were pro-yugo only. I obviously lean towards the pro-commie side. Very complicated affair.

Who had to wake up that crazy Slovene?

No, Yugoslavia was a REAL civil war lol, you had three sides really. The breakaway pro-nazi's(Croatia), the Anti-Nazi Commies(Tito), and the Chetniks(Nedic i believe was one) who were pro-yugo only. I obviously lean towards the pro-commie side. Very complicated affair.

Who had to wake up that crazy Slovene?

Well, we all know what happened to the Chetniks and Croats. And if we don't know, just take a look at recent history in the Former Yugoslavia and you'll get the idea.

When we replace the Stuka with, I don't know, the Stuka-2 or whatever, will we have to repurchase units, or does the maintenance cost cover it within the Tech Level?

When we replace the Stuka with, I don't know, the Stuka-2 or whatever, will we have to repurchase units, or does the maintenance cost cover it within the Tech Level?

maintenance covers it

Happy.

I'm confused. I thought that you had to continually update your aircraft.

Or is that just update them between tech levels?

I'm confused. I thought that you had to continually update your aircraft.

Or is that just update them between tech levels?

between tech levels... maintenance upgrades them normally so that you don't have to worry about it. I assume you have the best available to your nation at the time if you can build your own, or the best other nations will let you obtain if you have to purchase from overseas. Which means occasionally you for example will have to seek out nations to buy from... I would recommend British planes (latest marks of the Mosquito) and probably American, Union or British for fighters.

USEAS military report
Circa 1939

USEAA:

1st Army:
1st Infantry corps
2nd Motorized corps
3rd Infantry corps

Garrisons:
Hanoi Garrison
Vientiane Garrison
Phnom Penh Garrison


Marines:
1st Marine corps


USEAAF:

1st Fighter wing (Hawker Hurricanes)
2nd Bomber wing (Mosquitoes)


USEAN:

1x Light ship unit (45 destroyers)


Merchant Navy:

6,000,000 tons of shipping


The armed forces have been mobilized and the Infantry, motorized and marine corps having just got back from winter exercises in Korea are being deployed around Hanoi and Saigon. ( Infantry and motorized corps at Saigon and Infantry and Marine corps at Hanoi)

The United States Army Air Force orders 500 Northrop B35 Flying Wings, and 1000 Boeing B-29 Superfortresses. The P47N, the best version of the P47 to date is ordered, as is the new Douglas A26 Invader (to replace the B26 Marauder).

The Navy orders improved versions of the Corsair, the Avenger, and a new aircraft, the Skyraider. Also ordered are more Tigercat, a twin engined carrier night fighter.

The US Army orders the new M26 Pershing, to begin replacing its Shermans in 1940.

China secretly begins work on a prototype tank simply dubbed the "Dragon". The "Dragon" is a result of Chinese engineers working towards a Chinese tank that can combat any and all modern armored vehicles and tanks.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/1418/odbal163.jpg

http://www.planetdungeonsiege.com/mercilesscreations/MC_1.6/SW/gothic_line_T95-T28.jpg

Information and stats can be found here....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-28_Super_Heavy_Tank

By the way, have this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leichter_Panzerspahwagen) and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Panzerspahwagen) been developed yet? Also, what kind of tanks and armored cars would be available to India in 1942? I know this is a tall order, so just a few things would still be greatly appreciated.

What if I replaced the historical gasoline Ford GAF V-8 engine with a better or more efficient engine? Perhaps a Cadillac or General Motors engine? Then the weight may be decreased or the tank will have more speed.

The tank has 300mm armor, roughly comparable to naval vessels. This could come in handy if China needs to break through Japanese fortifications or defenses, as the armor will absorb all Japanese tank rounds and small arms fire, and perhaps even anti-tank rounds.

By the way, have this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leichter_Panzerspahwagen) and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Panzerspahwagen) been developed yet? Also, what kind of tanks and armored cars would be available to India in 1942? I know this is a tall order, so just a few things would still be greatly appreciated.

yes to both, and you can purchase anything from overseas, however, India doesn't have a car industry yet so can't make its own vehicles.

yes to both, and you can purchase anything from overseas, however, India doesn't have a car industry yet so can't make its own vehicles.

Actually, a while back, Korea built some car factories in my country...

But no matter.

Also, how could I obtain some of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7TP)

Actually, a while back, Korea built some car factories in my country...

But no matter.

Also, how could I obtain some of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7TP)

those are horrifically obsolete at this point.. my suggestion, get license to build a British or American tank since you have some car factories now. Those armored cars are pretty nifty, but not the same as a tank. Look up 1944 era tanks for what you want to build.

Maybe the Union will let you build T34s...

those are horrifically obsolete at this point.. my suggestion, get license to build a British or American tank since you have some car factories now. Those armored cars are pretty nifty, but not the same as a tank. Look up 1944 era tanks for what you want to build.

Maybe the Union will let you build T34s...

I can build 1944 era tanks? Sweetness! I just thought I could make early 1940's tanks/late 1930's, since I'm only level 6, but now that I find out otherwise.

Also, were tanks such as the Panzer IV developed? If they were, who made them?

GB, what is the state of South Africa's automotive industry? Is it sufficient to home-produce my own tanks, or would it be more cost-effective to buy them from the British or Americans?

I ask because I know in RL South Africa's automotive industry was pretty much non-existant (though, like the Australians, we did make some good armored cars), but I don't know how E20 South Africa compares.

Also, were tanks such as the Panzer IV developed? If they were, who made them?

The rights to the Panthere and Tiger tanks are currently in the hands of the French. Don't know about the Panzer IV.

South Africa, no car industry yet, although as part of the general LTA development plan for Africa now would be a good time for GM and Ford to set up their car manufacturing plants there (historically they did in the 50s). In 1940 the US will build one for you as part of part two of the Africa plan.

Okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

Come to think of it, who built all of Germanies World War II Equipment? Because that was pretty sweet stuff.

The Soviet Union probably uses their armored cars. I have their tanks. And the Soviet Union also uses their planes.

OOC:

So I guess these tanks shouldn't be built then? I need some kind of domestically designed and built weapons- tanks, APC's, planes, infantry guns, bazookas, mines, etc. That way, if foreign shipments are cut off by blockades, sunk, war, or whatever, I can still domestically produce weapons of war to defend myself.

I know next to nothing about custom designs, thogh.

I know I can purchase tanks and stuff from the US, but what if the US shipments can't get through? I need to be able to build stuff if the US is prevented from getting its stuff through to me.

Porsche, Henschel, a lot of engines built by MAN, etc.

Krupp, and Rheinmetall as well, two very very important companies in Germany.

The Soviet Union probably uses their armored cars. I have their tanks. And the Soviet Union also uses their planes.

I see. What about their small arms?

I see. What about their small arms?

The 98k was the standard rifle for the Pact during the 2nd War. As of now I'm not sure, although France uses the MAS-36 Sem-Auto. The MG-42 is also in use. The Ppsh is the standard SMG.

I use all German small arms, Mauser weapons mostly, with a few Rheinmetal guns, and the MP-40.

So can anyone use German small arms? Or just nations that buy them?

Nations that buy them....you can't just start building something without getting licenses, blueprints, etc.

Nations that buy them....you can't just start building something without getting licenses, blueprints, etc.

So who do I buy from?

Union, as that is where the plants are.

Union, as that is where the plants are.

It all goes back to the union...

We are the mighty, mighty Union.

Important rules decision

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10241154&postcount=1423

How good are Argentina's armed forces? And what could I do to improve them?

You could get Adolf Galland to advise you like in RL....or some other great persona.

Joint training with the Colombians :D

How good are Argentina's armed forces? And what could I do to improve them?

adequate, but no real institutional combat experience.. Joint training with the Colombians would actually help

I'd still have some vets kicking around from Great War 2, right? (Italy, some from Spain, some from French Guyana)

The MEU Arm forces
As of 1939

The MEU- A Single Army Division can be at 10,000 troops at its lowest and 20,000 troop at max.
Army Core as of 1926, the standing army
300,000 troops (100 percent fully trained)
Number of Army corps: 60 Army Division at the moment.
300,000 Reservist Division (only call to duty in times of war, well trained)" They are on duty."

Total number of Troops in the standing peacetime army, 600,000 troops(including supply soldiers)

Note: Each Army Core is assign 9 battalions of infantry, 4 battalions of artillery, plus a machine gun and armored car battalion


MEU forces
Persia -3 MEU Mech corps (Tehran, Isfahan,Bandar Shapur) 3 MEU Armour Cavalry from the Soviet Union( Base in Tehran) Fighter units(base in Tehran) dive bombers (JU-87)(Tehran) 3 Alpine corps(Tabriz) 4 militia corps(Tehran, Isfahan, Bandar Shapur, Mashhad ) 4 Inf corp.(Tehran, Isfahan, Bandar Shapur, Tabriz),Theater supply units


Iraq – 2 MEU Mech corps (Basra), 1 MEU garrison unit (Baghdad),1 MEU armored corps" reserve"(Baghdad) 2 militia corps( Basra) 2 Inf Corp( Baghdad, Mosul) 2 dive bombers(Baghdad)

Arabia – 1 MEU Cavalry corps (Riyadh),1 MEU infantry corps (Riyadh), 1 MEU Mech corp, (Jiddah ) 1 MEU cavalry corps(Riyadh), 1 MEU Mech Corp(Riyadh) 2 militia corps(Mecca, Medina ) 1 Dive Bomber(Riyadh)

Syria – 1 MEU Mech corps (Damascus), 1 MEU Cavalry corps (Damascus), 1 fighter unit(Damascus) 2 Field artillery units (Damascus), Headquarters units( Damascus), 1 MEU Mech corps (Jerusalem), 1 fighter unit(Jerusalem),Theater supply units


Home Forces – 1 MEU Mech corps, 1 MEU Amphibious unit ,1 fighter unit, (Istanbul), 1 MEU garrison (Gallipolli), 1 MEU Alpine corps (Ezrurum) , Flak artillery(Istanbul),Coast artillery(Gallipolli),4 Inf Corp( Ankara, Izmir, Istanbul, and Konya) Theater supply units(Ankara), and dive bomber unit (Ankara)



MEU Air Core
Made of mostly German Made planes
4 Fighter Unit
5 Dive Bomber unit
3 naval fighters (station on the three fleet carriers)
6 Air Force pilots
3 Naval Pilots
One pilot for domestic airlines
one domestic airlines

The Navy as of early 1936

Battleships

1 CAIO DUILIO CLASS Battleship(build by the Italians in 1922)

2 Conti di Cavour Battlecruiser( build by the Italians in 1922)

2 Battleships(build by the Germans,competed by 1934)

4 Battlecruisers(build by the Germans, competed by 1934)

Carrier
2 "Taiho class"Fleet carriers( build by Japan per agreement of the Alliance, competed by 1935)
2 Fleet Carriers(being build by the Soviet Union, one compete by 1937 and the other by 1938)
3 light carriers(builded by Japan per agreement of the Alliance, by 1931)
1 training carrier(builded by Japan per agreement of the Alliance, by 1931)

Cruisers
6 Cruisers(Build by Germany competed by 1933)

Light Cruisers
4- Tech 5 light cruisers

Destroyers

20 Destroyers(Build by the Italians in 1922)

10 Destroyers( build by the Germans competed by 1933)

20 Destroyers (build in 1934,1935 by MEU shipyards)

Submarines

Cargo shipping units
20 shipping units

Total cost of maintain 28.5 points (note I am not sure if I did this right, if someone could looked this over and help, I’ll be very thankful.)

Can someone tell me about Armored Cavalry? They're listed in maintenance costs, but not as a unit you can build.

Can someone tell me about Armored Cavalry? They're listed in maintenance costs, but not as a unit you can build.

tech level 6 armored cavalry and armored corps are essentially the same.

I'd still have some vets kicking around from Great War 2, right? (Italy, some from Spain, some from French Guyana)

thats correct, and during the war, Colombian troops saw serious combat in two fronts, and took some serious losses, which means the lessons were taken to heart.

in spite of determined searching, I never could find the Spanish Army anywhere.

So here it is. Postwar, the Spanish were limited to 200,000 men, enough to field 4 corps. They have 1 mountain corps, 1 motorized corps, and 2 infantry corps. They were limited to single engined aircraft, and have 1 fighter unit and 1 pilot, and 1 light bomber unit and 1 pilot. They have a coast guard of 1 light ship unit (40 corvettes and minesweepers). In addition, they were allowed reserves, and have 500,000 reservists, enough to form 1 HQ, 3 flak units, 4 garrison units, and 2 infantry corps.

Equipped at tech level 6 with French equipment and vehicles until they signed with the LTA in 1938, they have been reequipped with US vehicles and aircraft since then. (Older US stuff)

They now have 1 x 5 point mountain corps, 1 garrison unit (Bilbao), 1 garrison unit, 1 infantry corps (Barcelona), 1 motorized corps (Saragossa), 1 HQ, 1 fighter (P47C), 1 garrison unit, 1 infantry corps, 1 flak unit (Madrid), 1 flak unit (Cadiz), 1 infantry corps, 1 flak unit (Barcelona), 1 infantry corps (Palma), 1 garrison unit, 1 Naval Air (B25) 1 light ship unit, (Ferol), 1 infantry corps (Seville)

Portugal has 1 garrison unit, 1 P47, 1 light ship unit at Lisbon, 1 garrison unit each Mozambique and Angola, and 1 reserve motorized infantry corps at Lisbon.

A few thousand Portuguese troops are also in the Azores, Portuguese Timor and various other minor possessions they still own (not enough to make a unit, but basically numerous battalion sized garrisons).

Both the Portuguese and Spanish fought well in the 2nd Great War, and have good instutitional experience, decent equipment, sound doctrine and are as good as most Union troops.

ooc
time is frozen for 24 hours as the Jolt has been flaky and to give everyone a chance to read what has happened so far

Colombia would like to send two Alpine Corp to Spain, to take part in training with their same-language counter-parts. The Colombians will be bringing all three models of tanks with them, to see how they fair in more mountainous area's.

French submarine officers are sent to Kiel to learn Soviet submarine tactics as part of a "officer exchange" program.

The French High Command announces massive exercises to test the battle-readiness of the French military. All units are ordered to mobilize and are palced on high alert. All surface ships are recalled to home ports. French shipping is organized into convoys and are ordered to restrict their shipping lanes to the Baltic, South Atlantic, and the Mediterrainean. The troops heading to Turkey are recalled. The FFL continues to Turky, however.

In addition, with the growing tension in the world, a State of Emergency (aka National Effort)is declared.

Current Positons of the French Military:

6xMechanized Corp (Calais, Brest, Bayonne, clear hex on Spanish Border, Bordeaux, Paris)

3xAlpine Corps(Toulouse, mountain hex south of Toulouse, hex north-west of Turin)

1xMarine Corp (Nice)

1xHQ (Vichy)

18xCoastal Artillery Batteries (All Atlantic Coast Hexes)

18xFlak Artillery Batteries (All Atlantic Coast Hexes)

1xMechanized Anti-Tank Unit (Toulouse)

1xMechanized Field Artillery (Bayonne)

2xDestroyer Flotillas (Marseille, Brest)
6xSubmarine Groups (3@Marseille, 3@Brest)
7xLight Cruisers (Kirov, Libertie, Brest, Vengeance, Destructor, Liberator, 2xHeavy Cruisers ([i]Papillion, Revenant,, Marseilles)
1xFleet Carrier (Victory,En Route to Marseilles)
2xEscort Carriers (Equalitie, Fraternatie Marseille)
1xBattleship (Richelieu, returning from shakedown cruise to Marseille)
3x AA Cruisers (Marat, Jean-Paul, Jean D'ArcMarseille)

The last few things needing work on the Jean-Bart are hurriedly finished.

2xCarrier Fighters (onboard Victory, onboard Equalitie)
2xCarrier Bombers (onboard Victory, onboard Fraternitie)

1xFighter Unit (FW-190, Calais)
1xLight Bomber Unit (Stuka, Brest)
1xNaval Bomber (Stuka, Brest)
3xPilots

2xFighter Units (FW-190, Marsellie, Brest)
1xNaval Bomber Unit (Stuka, Calais)
1xLight Bomber Unit (Stuka, Bordeaux)
4xPilots

2xLight Naval Bombers (need pilots, will get them at the end of the year)
4xHeavy Naval Bombers (See above)

Under Construction:
6x Pilots
2xheavy Cruisers

Bulgaria in RL at this time had a standing army of about 100,000 soldiers in a total of 16 Infantry units, 7 Air , 2 Cavalry and 1 Mechanized unit... As well as a military consisting of 230,000 total people with 80 Combat Aircraft and a Navy in its early stages of growth... (The Kingdom's Navy is a little stronger in AH than it was in RL). What would you figure the Wartime values in this AH would be?

Bulgaria in RL at this time had a standing army of about 100,000 soldiers in a total of 16 Infantry units, 7 Air , 2 Cavalry and 1 Mechanized unit... As well as a military consisting of 230,000 total people with 80 Combat Aircraft and a Navy in its early stages of growth... (The Kingdom's Navy is a little stronger in AH than it was in RL). What would you figure the Wartime values in this AH would be?

1 motorized infantry corps, 1 mountain corps, 1 infantry corps, 1 flak unit, and the air force is too small to count, but Bulgaria does have a pilot unit (if someone gives them some planes, Bulgaria has an air force)

the World War III thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10243834#post10243834

some rules are already posted, and more to come

for the Pact
Heavy bomber: ME264 beginning 1941, HE177 before that
Light naval air: Single engined, best plane is IL2 (which could carry a torpedo)
Medium naval air: Twin engined, best plane is either IL4 or ME410, IL4 can carry a torpedo, while ME410 would be very effective with rockets and with strafing. Both could also carry depth charges. JU88 works as well, although only for dive bombing (would be my third choice)
Heavy naval air: FW200 Condor, replace with HE177 once ME264 hits front line.

Recent troubles in the world has caused the Algerian government to announce that it will begin to mobillise the reserve army and begin various exercises for them along with exercises for the regular army and the airforce.

Reserve Army:
3 Garrison Units (one in each of Oran, Algiers and Bone)
1 Cavalry Unit (Algiers)

Regular Army:
1 Infantry Division (currently being upgraded to a motorised division)
1 Flak Unit

Airforce:
1 P40 "Warhawk" fighter Unit (Algiers)
1 Pilot Unit

Recent troubles in the world has caused the Algerian government to announce that it will begin to mobillise the reserve army and begin various exercises for them along with exercises for the regular army and the airforce.

Reserve Army:
3 Garrison Units (one in each of Oran, Algiers and Bone)
1 Cavalry Unit (Algiers)

Regular Army:
1 Infantry Division (currently being upgraded to a motorised division)
1 Flak Unit

Airforce:
1 P40 "Warhawk" fighter Unit (Algiers)
1 Pilot Unit

maintenance would have upgraded that to a P47C fighter by now, and is that a division (14,000 men) or a corps (35,000 men)

er, I meant to say "Unit"

you know the number you get when you build a unit

As of April 21, 1939 Australia has also declared a state of emergency and mobilized its forces:

Army:
6 Garrison Units (this may be excessive, is there a way to change them into something more useful like infantry corps?) located at Perth, Darwin, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Port Moresby.
3 Mechanized Infantry Corps who are called up to meet in Sydney, Melbourne, and Canberra respectively

Airforce:
1000 F4U Corsairs (I assume maintenance upgraded to this)
250 B24 Naval Air Bombers
3 Pilot Units

Navy:
2 Heavy Cruisers, 2 Light Cruisers, and 10 destroyers off Bangkok with US taskforce.
2 Battlecruisers, 2 Light Cruisers, 10 destroyers, 10 submarines in Sydney Harbor

As of April 21, 1939 Australia has also declared a state of emergency and mobilized its forces:

Army:
6 Garrison Units (this may be excessive, is there a way to change them into something more useful like infantry corps?) located at Perth, Darwin, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Port Moresby.

yes, for 1 point they become 8 point motorized infantry corps or 8 point amphibious corps, for another point, 9 point mechanized corps, or for free, they become either 5 point flak units or 7 point infantry corps. Australian, Canadian and New Zealander units are rated high because historically their combat performance in real life justifies it. However, that is a lot of troops for Australia.. I think Australia should be limited to no more than half of its ground forces being outside of the territory of Australia (New Zealand/Australia/New Guinea/Solomon Islands/Polynesia) based on history. Canada will suffer the same limitation as well. The Australian mechanized corps you have already are 11 point units


Navy:
2 Heavy Cruisers, 2 Light Cruisers, and 10 destroyers off Bangkok with US taskforce.
2 Battlecruisers, 2 Light Cruisers, 10 destroyers, 10 submarines in Sydney Harbor

names for the heavy cruisers, light cruisers and Battlecruisers would be nice. I would suggest the BC Australia, New Zealand, CA (heavy cruisers) Sydney, Canberra, CL (light cruisers) Hobart, Perth, (all real ship names) and a couple of others cities as well for the other two cruisers (Melbourne, Brisbane maybe)

for all purposes, the New Zealand navy is essentially part of the Australian Navy. Also when war starts, all New Zealand points go to Australia for convienence. New Zealand has 1 x 8 point infantry corps to start, and 1 pilot.

I agree that is too many troops. Two of those garrison troops were created in 1938. For fairness I would find it acceptable if they were never created at all but that is for the mods to decide.

However....

The Battlecruisers were bought from England right after the 2nd Great War. I read somewhere that it is bad luck to change the name of a ship, so those are HMAS Hood and HMAS Renown. (both upgraded) Names of two heavy cruisers and 2 light cruisers can be found here (the ones near Bangkok)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10242295&postcount=45

and the other two light cruisers are HMAS Hobart and HMAS Melbourne. I will list upgrades to garrisons after a ruling is made on their existence here and on the economics thread soon.

I agree that is too many troops. Two of those garrison troops were created in 1938. For fairness I would find it acceptable if they were never created at all but that is for the mods to decide.

However....

The Battlecruisers were bought from England right after the 2nd Great War. I read somewhere that it is bad luck to change the name of a ship, so those are HMAS Hood and HMAS Renown. (both upgraded) Names of two heavy cruisers and 2 light cruisers can be found here (the ones near Bangkok)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10242295&postcount=45

and the other two light cruisers are HMAS Hobart and HMAS Melbourne. I will list upgrades to garrisons after a ruling is made on their existence on the placeholder a page or two back of here soon.

ok with the Renown, but apparently the British still have the Hood, so I guess it has a partially Australian crew or he didn't actually transfer it to you. Might as well keep the garrison units, they represent the Australian militia, which did get that big historically and had the restrictions I indicated. You already have a Hobart, I suggest the Brisbane as a good name (big city that is a port) or maybe the Adalaide.

Relevant Posts here

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=431379&page=24
Most of the page and part of the next

I am almost sure that the Brits built a new Hood right after they gave it to me but it is somewhere deep in the Economic Thread now. If it would make things less confusing, change that battlecruiser's name to HMAS Brisbane and the second Hobart (sloppy on my part, sorry) to HMAS Adalaide.

Modifications to garrison units and additional builds will come soon.

Hm, I can't quite remember. I think I may have built a new Hood to replace the one sold to Australia, I retained the name Hood for my new battlecruiser as the Aussies changed the name once they recieved it.

Hm, I can't quite remember. I think I may have built a new Hood to replace the one sold to Australia, I retained the name Hood for my new battlecruiser as the Aussies changed the name once they recieved it.

works for me--problems solved. Now we just have to avoid them all getting sunk by the godless commies and their allies

I need a run-down on what forces China has remaining after all the action up to May 1st (the re-taking of Shanghai and losses elsewhere). It'd be very much appreciated, as I'll know where I stand militarily and help me decide what to build next.

Hm, I can't quite remember. I think I may have built a new Hood to replace the one sold to Australia, I retained the name Hood for my new battlecruiser as the Aussies changed the name once they recieved it.

somebody change a name please to avoid giving the war moderator headaches

I need a run-down on what forces China has remaining after all the action up to May 1st (the re-taking of Shanghai and losses elsewhere). It'd be very much appreciated, as I'll know where I stand militarily and help me decide what to build next.

working on it

The MEU government decides to maintain such a massive fleet was costing the nation too much in terms of up keep. The MEU governemnt has decide to sell the fellowing ships as scrapped to the Soviet Union and French Third Republic, they already on route to the scrap yards of France and Soviet Union.

a List of the ships that we have sold for Scrap

1 CAIO DUILIO CLASS Battleship(build by the Italians in 1922)( to the Union)

2 Conti di Cavour Battlecruiser( build by the Italians in 1922)( to the Union)

2 Battleships(build by the Germans,competed by 1934)(To France)

4 Battlecruisers(build by the Germans, competed by 1934)(To France)

Carrier
2 "Taiho class"Fleet carriers( build by Japan per agreement of the Alliance, competed by 1935)(To France)
2 Fleet Carriers(being build by the Soviet Union, one compete by 1937 and the other by 1938)(To the Union)
3 light carriers(builded by Japan per agreement of the Alliance, by 1931)(Two to the Union and one to France)

along with the carriers that are heading to France, these air units were assign to with them.

3 naval fighters

The Union, of course, massively overpays for these "scrapped" ships (figure the funds are enfolded into the 80-point aid package for 1939). OoC, I'll also note that we delivered the aircraft to go with those carriers when we built them, but not the pilots - however, I just happen to have two pilots sitting around (formerly manning two dive bomber wings that I donated to the MEU), so that works out wuite well, then.

treat these ships as reserve ships... in other words, 2 points each for them. You have to come up with crews, which are what those 2 points represent in this case, and modernize them (as they don't have the radar and communications systems that first line Union and LTA ships do)

this will take 3 turns (6 months) which means they become available in November

on the plus side, they are a handy way to replace possible losses early on or a handy reserve for later

unless Turkey provides pilots, you will need pilots for the carriers. Planes are Japanese models (as I figured since he got his carriers there, he got his carrier planes there too)

I would think a Jack fighter, Jill Torpedo bomber, and Judy dive bomber would be about right.

The French accept the deal with the MEU and promise to provide payment over the next few years.

The French air-lines are nationalized and the pilots transferred to military command.



Revised French Military:

Army:

6xMechanized Corps
3xAlpine Corps
1xMarine Corps
1xMechanized Artillery Unit
1xHQ
1xMechanized Anti-Tank Unit
18xAA Artillery
18xCoastal Artillery
18xMilitia (Upgrading to Garrisons)

Air-Force

3xFighter Units (piloted)
2xLight Bombers (piloted)
4xLight Naval Bombers (two piloted, two awaiting pilots)
4xHeavy Naval Bobmers (Two piloted, two awaiting pilots)

3xCarrier Fighters (two piloted, one awaiting pilots)
4xCarrier Bombers (two piloted, two awaiting pilots)

Factoring in the MEU stuff...

3xFleet Carriers
1xLight Carrier
2xEscort Carriers
2xRichlieu Class BBs
2xGerman BBs
4xGerman BC
7xLC
2xHC
3xAA Cruisers
60xSubs
20xDDs

9xPilots

4xCarrier Pilots

Under Construction:

2xHeavy Cruisers
4xPilots
2xCarrier Pilots

treat these ships as reserve ships... in other words, 2 points each for them. You have to come up with crews, which are what those 2 points represent in this case, and modernize them (as they don't have the radar and communications systems that first line Union and LTA ships do)

this will take 3 turns (6 months) which means they become available in November

on the plus side, they are a handy way to replace possible losses early on or a handy reserve for later
Well, the two aircraft carriers we just got back are pretty much ready to go, even the pilots. Maybe a point each for just the crews, instead? It makes sense for the others, though.

Well, the two aircraft carriers we just got back are pretty much ready to go, even the pilots. Maybe a point each for just the crews, instead? It makes sense for the others, though.

no, MEU is a lower tech level than France and the Union are, treat them the same way the US and Britian treats its reserve ships.

Planes are Japanese models (as I figured since he got his carriers there, he got his carrier planes there too)

I would think a Jack fighter, Jill Torpedo bomber, and Judy dive bomber would be about right

by the way France, airline pilots cannot be used as carrier pilots. They can fly only land based planes. Carrier pilots are very specifically trained, which is why they are always listed seperately.

no, MEU is a lower tech level than France and the Union are, treat them the same way the US and Britian treats its reserve ships.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. We - that is, the Union - just built those two fleet carriers last year and the year before, sold them to the MEU, along with the aircraft to go with them, and the MEU is now selling them back to us.

Are you saying that in that short time they degraded a full tech level?

by the way France, airline pilots cannot be used as carrier pilots. They can fly only land based planes. Carrier pilots are very specifically trained, which is why they are always listed seperately.

Is't possible to retrain them?

Is't possible to retrain them?

let me think about that, I will get back to you

by the way France, airline pilots cannot be used as carrier pilots. They can fly only land based planes. Carrier pilots are very specifically trained, which is why they are always listed seperately.
Could you point out where is says that here?
Air units
Single engined aircraft – 500 planes, multi engined – 250 planes,
Pilots 2 points, 6 turns to train
fighter units 2 or 3 points (single or twin engined), 2 turns
bomber units 2, or 3 or 4 points (single, twin or four engined), 2 turns single
engined, 3 turns 2 or 3 engined, 4 turns for 4 engined
strategic bomber units 4 or 6 points (4 or 6 engined), 3 turns
naval air units 2 or 3 or 4 points (single, twin, or four engined) as per bombers
air transports 3 or 4 points (twin or four engined) as per bombers
carrier bombers and fighters 2 points, 1 turn
jet fighter units (beginning 1940), 3 points, 3 turns
jet bomber units (beginning 1940) 3 points, 3 turns,

Remember, you need 1 pilot unit for every air unit you want to have operational. You are allowed to have extra pilot and aircraft units that haven’t been assigned pilots or aircraft (it’s a reserve)

I'm not sure what you mean by this. We - that is, the Union - just built those two fleet carriers last year and the year before, sold them to the MEU, along with the aircraft to go with them, and the MEU is now selling them back to us.

Are you saying that in that short time they degraded a full tech level?

I am saying that in a 2 year period from the time they were fitted out and now, the Union and LTA have advanced significantly in the electronics and communications areas. Remember, the leading nations are now tech level 6.5, while the MEU is barely tech level 6. Essentially we are 2 - 5 years ahead of the tech level 6 nations in key technologies.

I am paying to refit 2 carriers that I just placed in reserve last year, so I am handling it equitably.

Could you point out where is says that here?

the rule isn't clear, that is true. My fault, I should have clarified it more.

its alluded to in the maintanence rules, where landbased and carrier pilots are listed as "carrier and landbased pilots"

It also makes historical sense. Carrier pilot units cost the same as a landbased pilot even though they are fewer of them (100 pilots vs 500 pilots) because they do cost a hell of a lot more to train, and also tend to die a lot in the 1940s just trying to land.

By the way, figure MEU used entirely Japanese carrier aircraft (as they are really better than Union aircraft at this point, you don't have as much experience building carrier planes as the US, UK and Japanese do, while your carrier planes are navalized versions of land aircraft... no combat difference, just a detail difference that isn't really important)

It does make sense, it's true. And, especially since it's equal, I don't object. I just get testy when I'm told I'm violating rules I've never heard of.

But that's why we're suspending time, after all. Hopefully all these things will be sorted out before we start again. I apologize for my dickishness.

Rumanian Military, 1939

Royal Rumanian Army
4xMechanised Corps
1x Alpine Corp
1xHQ
4xMechanised Field Artillery

Royal Army Air Corp
1x Fighter Wing (FW-190)
1x Light Bomber Wing(Stuka)

Royal Rumanian Navy
1x Light Ship Counter (10 Ddestroyers)
1xSubmarine Counter
1x Heavy Crusier (Regele Carol I)
2x Light Crusiers(Dacia and Elisabeta)

The 1st Rumanian Army (4 mechansed Corp, 4 Mechanised Artillery,the HQ unit and the entire airforce) is dispatched to Germany via rail.

GB, when you get a chance could you calculate the Japanese and Chinese losses? Thanks!

GB, when you get a chance could you calculate the Japanese and Chinese losses? Thanks!

its on the to do list..

French forces May 1939...please check for accuracy, includes Union aid, although I am not sure about how many flak units (Union paid for 14, but you show 18 already). Information based on these posts

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10240766&postcount=1419
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10243190&postcount=1090

How many merchant ships do you have again?

French Forces
French Navy (need names for some of these ships)
Naval Aviation
1xFighter Unit (FW-190, Calais)
1xLight Bomber Unit (Stuka, Brest)
1xNaval Bomber (Stuka, Brest)
3xPilots

2xFighter Units (FW-190, Marsellie, Brest)
1xNaval Bomber Unit (Stuka, Calais)
1xLight Bomber Unit (Stuka, Bordeaux)
4xPilots

5xLight Naval Bombers (need pilots)
4xHeavy Naval Bombers (See above)
2 carrier fighters, 2 carrier torpedo bombers (pilots needed)
2 available pilots (for landbased aircraft)
1 reserve 2-engined airline, 1 reserve 4-engined airline, 1 2-engined air transport unit,

Mediterranean Fleet (based at Toulon)
Battleships Richelieu, Jean Bart, 2 heavy cruisers, 3 anti aircraft cruisers, 7 light cruisers, 10 destroyers, 30 submarines, 1 fleet carrier, 2 light carriers, 1 carrier fighter, 1 carrier torpedo bomber,

Under construction
Available September (refitting and crewing up at Toulon)
2 fleet carriers (need names), 3 light carriers (need names), 2 battleships, 4 battlecruisers
available 1940 (more points needed, will have spent 12 months construction time) French building shipyards are in Brest, Marseilles
2 heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers, 3 anti aircraft cruisers, 4 submarine units


French Army
Atlantic Wall forces (18 hexes)
All Atlantic hexes have 1 fortification, 1 x coast defense unit, 1 x 2 point flak unit, 1 x 3 point militia unit.

Mobile Army
5x 9 point Mechanized Corps (Calais, Brest, Bayonne, clear hex on Spanish Border, Bordeaux,)
1 x 10 point mechanized corps (Paris)
3x 5 point Alpine Corps (Toulouse, mountain hex south of Toulouse, hex north-west of Turin)
1 x 4 point parachute corps (Paris
1x 6 point Marine Corp (Nice)
1x 5 point Mechanized Anti-Tank Unit (Toulouse)
1x 4 point Mechanized Field Artillery (Bayonne)
1xHQ (Vichy)

Colonial Army
1 x 10 point mechanized corps

under construction
2 HQ units (January 1940), 8 pilots (January 1940),

Thanks GB, a few quick corrections:

I'm only building 8 pilots, and there should be 18 militia on the coastal defenses from the declared national effort. After they're all constructed, they'll be upgraded to garrisons. Names for the ships will be posted later, as I don't have much time right now.

4 of the flak are already built and are deployed in Calais and the coastal hexes next to it. Brest should already have one from before all of this build-up. The 14 the Russians paid for are under construction.

18 costal artillery and 18 garrison / militia units? Wouldn't that go over France's population support cap (36 units)? I'm confused as I remember that GB said during WW-2 that Germany couldn't field more than 40 - 50 military units, and France generally has a lower population than Germany unless something changed in E20.

Just wondering what happened to military unit caps and reserve units? Could someone clear that up for me?

As far as I know, it's 1 ground unit or 4 air/naval units per 1 million population in peacetime. However, I'm not clear if aircraft carriers and carrier planes count separately.

18 costal artillery and 18 garrison / militia units? Wouldn't that go over France's population support cap (36 units)? I'm confused as I remember that GB said during WW-2 that Germany couldn't field more than 40 - 50 military units, and France generally has a lower population than Germany unless something changed in E20.

Just wondering what happened to military unit caps and reserve units? Could someone clear that up for me?

I am auditing for that now... each unit is 50,000 men, and based on his population of 45 million, France can field 10% of its population, 4.5 million upon mobilization. He has 45 ground units, which is 2.25 million men, add another 18 militia (for more points) and 900,000 more men. Each air unit is 10,000 men, and he has 9... 90,000 more men. Each naval unit is 5,000 men, and he has 43 naval units including the ones under construction for 215,000 men.

Total thus far is 3,365,000 men. So he is good, although rapidly approaching his population cap. Pilots don't count, and merchant shipping is a mere 10000 men per shipping unit, which adds only 300000 more men if he has the maximum commerce limit of 30. Airlines dont count either.

Remember, tech level 6 units are smaller than tech level 5 ground units and units include not just the men in the unit, but the various support troops elsewhere.

Incidently, militia units are really poor troops usually.

Incidently, as he has the manpower to replace only 20 ground units over the course of the war, unless he scraps units or improves existing units (like militia for example).

carrier units are too small (only 75 -100 aircraft) and are included with the manpower of the carrier for this purpose. Peacetime has a cap of 3% of the population.

I am auditing for that now... each unit is 50,000 men, and based on his population of 45 million, France can field 10% of its population, 4.5 million upon mobilization. He has 45 ground units, which is 2.25 million men, add another 18 militia (for more points) and 900,000 more men. Each air unit is 10,000 men, and he has 9... 90,000 more men. Each naval unit is 5,000 men, and he has 43 naval units including the ones under construction for 215,000 men.

Total thus far is 3,365,000 men. So he is good, although rapidly approaching his population cap. Pilots don't count, and merchant shipping is a mere 10000 men per shipping unit, which adds only 300000 more men if he has the maximum commerce limit of 30. Airlines dont count either.

Remember, tech level 6 units are smaller than tech level 5 ground units and units include not just the men in the unit, but the various support troops elsewhere.

Incidently, militia units are really poor troops usually.

Incidently, as he has the manpower to replace only 20 ground units over the course of the war, unless he scraps units or improves existing units (like militia for example).

carrier units are too small (only 75 -100 aircraft) and are included with the manpower of the carrier for this purpose. Peacetime has a cap of 3% of the population.

We've got to keep track of our total military forces now? And exactly how many men we have? Can't we go back to the old "1 ground unit or 4 air/navel unit in peace, triple for war?"

This seems like a change that adds complexity without making the game that much more fun.

We've got to keep track of our total military forces now? And exactly how many men we have? Can't we go back to the old "1 ground unit or 4 air/navel unit in peace, triple for war?"

This seems like a change that adds complexity without making the game that much more fun.

no you don't (I do). Its 3 units per million during wartime though if you are tech level 6. I keep track of casualties and let people know when they are starting to run out of men to through into the maw. It was only a big issue once, during the 1st Great War. Might be this time too depending on how long things last.

3 units, 150,000 men out of 1 million is a lot by the way, but it happens

After some consideration, I've decided to do the following:

Instead of building 18 militia units, I'll cut that number in half and buil 9 Infantry units instead and use 9 more points to upgrade them to motorized corps, giving me an extra 9 points to crew around with. This way my troops will be more effective and I have some surplus points to build stuff with.

9 Infantry Units (18 points)

Upgrade to Motorised Corps (9 points)

Motorised Corps (3 Points)

3 Carrier Pilots (6 points)

that should account for the 32 points I was going to spend on militia nad upgrading them.

Deployment of said corps later.

After some consideration, I've decided to do the following:

Instead of building 18 militia units, I'll cut that number in half and buil 9 Infantry units instead and use 9 more points to upgrade them to motorized corps, giving me an extra 9 points to crew around with.

Deployment of said corps later.
I'm not sure you want to do that. I may be mistaken, but my impression has always been that the Atlantic Wall needs to be manned if it's going to work - otherwise it's just a bunch of gun emplacements, bunkers, concrete walls, and scrap metal that the USMC will splash graffiti on as they roll off the beaches towards Paris.

But, like I say, I may be wrong.

And Middle Snu, the old "1 ground unit/4 air or naval" rule might've been alright for, say, Czechoslovakia. But I could never make sense of it myself with my population.

After some consideration, I've decided to do the following:

Instead of building 18 militia units, I'll cut that number in half and buil 9 Infantry units instead and use 9 more points to upgrade them to motorized corps, giving me an extra 9 points to crew around with. This way my troops will be more effective and I have some surplus points to build stuff with.

9 Infantry Units (18 points)

Upgrade to Motorised Corps (9 points)

Motorised Corps (3 Points)

3 Carrier Pilots (6 points)

that should account for the 32 points I was going to spend on militia nad upgrading them.

Deployment of said corps later.

that means they don't show up til August

that means they don't show up til August
Please don't consider that final. I'm consulting with France right now.

Back to 18 militia and then upgrading to garrisons. 32 points.

Back to 18 militia and then upgrading to garrisons. 32 points.

lol, I hadn't changed anything yet in the World War III thread

S'cool. Just wanted to make sure you know.

I am led to believe it costs nothing to convert shipping into oilers and transports. Is this true?

In other news, French shipping is nationalized and recalled to their home ports.

I am led to believe it costs nothing to convert shipping into oilers and transports. Is this true?

In other news, French shipping is nationalized and recalled to their home ports.

correct, although service fleets aren't just oilers, they also include fleet supply ships and ocean going tugs and misc other vessels

correct, although service fleets aren't just oilers, they also include fleet supply ships and ocean going tugs and misc other vessels

Yes, but it's just a catch-all term I use to describe them.

I don't know how important it'll be, but Independent Macedonia will be assigning all Pact commanders as our Chief of Personnel. Any case of doubt will resolved in his favor. When I was assigning them, I was just pulling names out of books. He actually knows these guys.

Alarmed by the heavy bomber losses over Germany, the US Army Air Force places orders for the North American A36 fighter, now reengined with the Merlin engine and called the P51B. The first of these should reach squadrons in late November. This aircraft, with a significantly longer range than the P47N, also is faster as well. However, the large bombload and toughness of the P47 will keep it in service through 1940, perhaps longer.

The first of the V1 attacks against England also brings about calls for speeding up jet production. The P80A is ordered, as is the Gloster Meteor. Neither will reach service in noticable numbers before 1940 either. The Navy, with 3 large carriers approaching completion, orders the FR1 Fireball (a mixed prop/jet fighter) as a stopgap, while the FH1 Phantom continues testing.

(jets require the purchase of jet fighter units, they don't show in fighter units as part of maintenance).

The British also rush the Hawker Fury (and its carrier variant the Sea Fury) into production for service in 1940, while improved marks of the Spitfire continue to join the RAF. The US Navy also places the F8F Bearcat into production for service as a high speed interceptor (both are two of the fastest piston aircraft ever built).

The Union places into production the TA152 for service in 1940, along with the M262, a fast swept wing jet fighter (which will reach squadrons in 1940 as well, as long as the Union buys jet units)


carriers completed before 1940 must undergo refit (2 points of repairs) to handle jets, while carriers completed 1940 or later can handle them. Its a matter of installing catapults, which are not standard yet. Larger deck space is important as well. Only fleet carriers can handle jets, and only if they were built 1930 or later.

a new military thread will be created when the game restarts

Military trends Early World War III
Jet fighters are becoming common, and vital to deal with the superheavy bombers the Allies are using, and to shoot down enemy buzz bombs, as well as to deal with enemy jet fighters. The ME262 is the best combat aircraft of the early jets, but has engine reliability problems and is also the most expensive to operate due to frequent need to replace those engines. The US build P80A and British Gloster Meteor aren't as fast (although the P80 is almost as fast as the ME262) and the P80 has the best range of the three, and shares the same reliable engine as the Meteor.

The Pact also has a useful jet bomber, but is only now putting them into production (although a number have already seen service as recon planes). The Americans are experimenting with several designs, but are content to use the excellent A26 Invader, almost as fast as some piston engined fighters, and the British are similarly happy with their Mosquito.

The British find that although the Lancaster has excellent range and bombload, it is relatively helpless against Pact Night Fighters and even more so against Pact jet fighters. The US B29 and B35, which fly up to 20,000 feet higher, face their only really serious enemy in the jets. The Pact hurriedly begins production of their ME264, a replacement for the HE177, and almost as fast and with almost the range of the B29.

However, the Americans are already building the B36, which flies even higher yet, and has the range to fly from Kansas to Moscow and back without refueling. The Americans are also looking at better engines for the B29, and plan to get this varient, the B50, into production as early as 1943. It will have 30% more range as the B29 and cruise at nearly 350 mph (the B36 cruises at a similar high speed).

The Pact and US are already producing television guided missiles, which have seen their first combat debuts. However, they can be jammed, and the bombers that launch them are as vulnerable as ever.

Military trends Middle World War III
The LTA principal tanks are the Pershing, with a 90 mm gun, the Centurian, with a 17 pounder, and Shermas with 17 pounder and 90 mm guns. Meanwhile, the Union is using the T44, with a 85 mm gun, and the SU100, an assault gun but present in large numers. Infantry are now equipped with improved Panzerfausts (Pact) and 3.75 inch bazookas, and some LTA weapons companys also have the 75 and 90 mm recoilless rifle. The Union prinicipal combat rifle is the STG44 (ooc very similar to the AK47), while the LTA principal weapons are the M1 Garand (most widely used) and Lee Enfields, although the LTA has a large number of submachineguns.

The P1011 air superiority fighter, built by Messerschmidt is the best fighter in the air at the moment, faster and more manueverable then the Meteor and F80 Shooting Star. The US F84 is almost as fast though and in an improvement over the F80. However, the US is hurrying the F86 into production, and expects to have large numbers available by 1942. The F86 (the US is classifying all jet fighters as F, all piston engined fighters as P) is substanially superior to all current LTA jets, and also better then the P1011, and the new Focke Wulf TA183, which is about to hit squadron service for th Union. The Union also has the new Mig15 under develoment, but it won't hit squadron service until 1943.

The British too are improving their aircraft, with new marks of the Meteor able to compete with the P1011 and but will remain inferior to the TA183. The new Vampire has entered the fray, and is about as good as the Meteor Mk4, but superior to the Meteor and Shooting Stars in service.

The piston engined fighter has become obsolecent for its usual role, but remains a cheaper alternative and useful for ground attack. Only jets can deal successfully with the very high flying and very fast (400 MPH cruising speed) B36 and B50, and piston engined aircraft have difficulty with the B35 and B29 as well. However, the Union now has sufficient jets were daytime missions even with the B36 are becoming too risky in the face of jet fighters to continue except in weakly defended areas (which are becoming rarer).

Although the Union is fielding radar guided and wireguided anti aircraft missiles, they are too unreliable and expensive for widespread use. But they are adequate to inflict potentially serious casualties against massed formations of bombers. The Americans have had to reconsider their tactics.

Night missions are becoming a must if the US wants to continue hitting strategic targets in the Union, and for now, neither side has an all weather jet interceptor. For now, the fast US P82, British Mosquito and Union DO335 are available, but the Union has not been able to produce night fighters in substantial numbers yet.

Both the Union and the Americans are very close to developing atomic weapons (ooc beginning 1942, a 1d6 roll every turn to produce one).

Helicopters are becoming common, but remain small and useful mainly for liaison, rescue and casualty evacuation duties.

The sinking of 5 Allied battleships in 6 weeks in the Black Sea by air attack, even in the face of very heavy flak, sounds the death knell of that expensive weapon system. Although still useful, the carrier has replaced it as the primary capital ship. Especially since by September 1941 the Union no longer has a significant navy.

The British and Americans put into the production the Martin/English Electric Canberra jet bomber to replace the A26 and Mosquito bombers.

Meanwhile, the Soviets finally have a bomber capable of reaching portions of North America... the JU390, which is also capable of carrying an atomic bomb. To reach important targets however, the Soviet aircraft will not be able to reach home and the crews will have to bail out over the Arctic, or ditch and hope the few remaining submarines available can pick them up in the Pacific.

Unaware of the Soviet capability, but aware the Soviets do have bombers capable of one way bombing missions against North America and capable of hitting Chinese, Indian or European targets, the US keeps substantial numbers of fighters at home.

ooc
After careful research, the following biological agents were developed during World War II by both sides:

Anthrax -- weaponized form developed by Japan and Britain, can be delivered by aerial bombs. Sufficient numbers will render the target area unhabitable by humans for decades, clean up is extremely difficult. Infection rate is very high, and death rate is too without widespread availability of antibiotics. Can also be dropped in water supplies and also infects animals.
Bubonic Plague -- Japanese developed a Flea bomb in 1938, and used it in China. Reportedly, after a relatively small scale use, nearly 100,000 Chinese died of the disease.
Rice Blast -- was available to the US, and the Japanese, and was considered for use by the US in 1945 to force a Japanese surrender. Mercifully, it wasn't. Will inflect crippling crop damage if used.


Atomic weapons are in the 15 -18 kiloton range, but depending on target selection and use, can be catastrophically deadly.

Dassault Mirage aviation moves from Paris to China because of severe restrictions on French military aviation (they aren’t allowed any). Their first aircraft is the Mystere, a jet in the same league as the F86 and Mig15. This move puts China in the front rank of aviation design.

Moving to Poland is Mikoyan Design Bureau, which sets up shop as Mig Aviation. Poland immediately begins earning foreign currency selling the Mig 15 as an interceptor.

Moving to India is the Henschel company, which begins producing Panther tanks and Jagdpanther assault guns for sale, and working on an improved tank, the Leopard. Focke Wulf Aviation, and its brilliant designer Kurt Tank, decides to stay in Germany however and acquires control over the Junkers aviation company.

However, Willi Messerschmidt moves his company to Colombia. Another designer of note who moves to Colombia is Dr. Porsche, who begins making Volkswagons in Colombia and working on armored vehicle design.

A US rocket plane, the X-1, flown by the jet ace Chuck Yeager (who earned 40 kills over Russia against Russian TA183s) breaks the sound barrier on March 12, 1943.

The US Defense Department is created. The US Navy and Air Force conduct a joint experiment in the Pacific. A large fleet of surplus warships, including 4 old battleships, a pair of old carriers, several cruisers and dozens of other warships including submarines, are taken to Bikini Atoll. Two atomic weapons are used, one an airburst, and other a surface burst (ooc and providing really spectacular footage for years to come).

The Navy is alarmed by the result, as the entire fleet was essentially mission killed by the airburst, and almost half is sunk outright by the surface burst.

During the last year of the war, helicopters came into use for casualty evacuation and liaison work. Thinkers in the US, UK, and elsewhere begin to consider other missions, such as troop transport, assault and possibly other tasks.

The US Army, which captured a large number of V-2 rockets during the war, hires Von Braun and other German engineers and sends them to work in the US. They end up working for the Air Force and Navy, which are considering uses for ballistic missiles. Sangers ideas about an Amerika Bomber are considered thoroughly for the possibilities of placing a platform in space to conduct observation. Robert A. Heinlein also moves to the Air Force, and Colonel Heinlein who helped develop television guided missiles for the Navy (used against a number of targets late in the war) becomes head of the US Missile and Rocket program for the Air Force.

Ok, what is this nonsense about Messerschmidt and Von Braun leaving Germany? It's not like I have restrictions on my military, like France, and it's not like I won't use them...

We pay them real good, you'll see.

Parthini']Ok, what is this nonsense about Messerschmidt and Von Braun leaving Germany? It's not like I have restrictions on my military, like France, and it's not like I won't use them...

400 million screaming Indiamen will convince them. Especially since you guys NUKED US. Oh sure, you didn't, but everyone knows the greatest nuclear scientists were German

Parthini']Ok, what is this nonsense about Messerschmidt and Von Braun leaving Germany? It's not like I have restrictions on my military, like France, and it's not like I won't use them...

You have other designers (the ones that historically went to the Soviets were just as gifted). This spreads things around a bit for RP purposes.

Messerschmidt as a company dissappeared historically post World War II, this gives me (the technology moderator) to use historical equipment instead of having people make stuff up.

Germany won't have the capital to spend on a space program until it repairs its industry in any case. Kurt Tank was a better designer then Messerschmidt anyway...look up the TA 183 jet fighter, TA 152 piston engine fighter for why

ooc: Yes, but under my guise (slash years of designing NS aircraft) Mes will do just fine... in fact I just designed the first jet plane for Colombia to compete with the MiG-15.

GB... I propose that I review peoples custom creations as moderator ;)

ooc: Yes, but under my guise (slash years of designing NS aircraft) Mes will do just fine... in fact I just designed the first jet plane for Colombia to compete with the MiG-15.

GB... I propose that I review peoples custom creations as moderator ;)

The Mig 17 (which is what your picture shows) is a trans sonic aircraft (can hit Mach 1 in level flight), which makes it a tech level 7 aircraft.. so for now, you are working on it. My suggestion, for now, Colombia is license building the F86D and E models (D is all weather, E is a better dogfighter),

However, the US is about to hit Tech level 7, along with the British, and you are right behind. World War III gave us a tech level boost, while some nations actually lost ground tech level wise.

Once I finish posting where everyone is economically, I will be posting a new cost list for military units, which will take into consideration tech level 7, as well as costs for other things as well.

Meh, the SU didn't get any designers.

Meh, the SU didn't get any designers.

Sweden has good designers.. they built their own tank and jet fighter designs by the 1950s.

India has no designers :(. I thought I could steal the German companies. I mean, the Union sold me the plans to their stuff...

Wait, does that mean I could base new weapons off the German plans the Union sold me?

Meh. So what CAN I build on my own... once I repair everything.

And why are you stealing all the German stuff? I mean, it WAS the SOVIETS that you guys raped out of existance so why don't you steal all of theirs :p

And I guess I keep the German Nuke scientists too :)

Parthini']Meh. So what CAN I build on my own... once I repair everything.

And why are you stealing all the German stuff? I mean, it WAS the SOVIETS that you guys raped out of existance so why don't you steal all of theirs :p

And I guess I keep the German Nuke scientists too :)

Err, for one thing, the German nuke scientists died in the nuclear explosion in Omsk, methinks (at least a few of them, I would suspect, still had loyalties to the Union). Also, German stuff is way better than commie stuff. Except for the tanks. I'll steal some of them, too.

Fine... take Von Braun... I call Dornberger...

And what happens to the T-34 and the Kharkov factory? I guess you'll leave me without tanks, too?

GB, can I get Sukhoi and Tupolev? I don't think you mentioned them.

jesus India, back off. Why would Sukhoi and Tupolev want to goto a country that just got nuked? Sweden should get them if anyone.

India has no designers :(. I thought I could steal the German companies. I mean, the Union sold me the plans to their stuff...

Wait, does that mean I could base new weapons off the German plans the Union sold me?

yes, plus I am inclined to have India invent the AK47

Parthini']Fine... take Von Braun... I call Dornberger...

And what happens to the T-34 and the Kharkov factory? I guess you'll leave me without tanks, too?

you have tanks (I sent you a TG on that).

Dornberger you get to keep

GB, can I get Sukhoi and Tupolev? I don't think you mentioned them.

Sukhoi is a loyal Russian, so is Antonev, but Tupolev will move to the Sweden

jesus India, back off. Why would Sukhoi and Tupolev want to goto a country that just got nuked? Sweden should get them if anyone.

SAFEHAVEN2 IS NOT INDIA!

yes, plus I am inclined to have India invent the AK47

Indeed. Such are marvelous weapon =D

Also, Artista, why would they stay in a country that has been divided, nuked alot more than India, and isn't as stable as India? I mean, at least in India everyone is happy. Except for some Persians. But we're dealing with that.

LOL I just assumed that someone trying to thief Russian and German scientists would be you TLS.

So why would they goto India if they could goto Sweden? Or the UK? Or omfg Colombia?! Or Argentina!! or even South Africa... possibly Australia?

LOL I just assumed that someone trying to thief Russian and German scientists would be you TLS.

So why would they goto India if they could goto Sweden? Or the UK? Or omfg Colombia?! Or Argentina!! or even South Africa... possibly Australia?

hell yes Australia. So far I have been left over in the tech scramble. No real surprise I mean, but it would be nice to have some industry to complement my massive wheat and beef supplies...

LOL I just assumed that someone trying to thief Russian and German scientists would be you TLS.

So why would they goto India if they could goto Sweden? Or the UK? Or omfg Colombia?! Or Argentina!! or even South Africa... possibly Australia?

they face less competition from existing companies by going to India, China etc.. (IC explanation) and OOC explanation is to spread around designs so that I can use real aircraft, tanks etc and make live easier for me.

they face less competition from existing companies by going to India, China etc.. (IC explanation) and OOC explanation is to spread around designs so that I can use real aircraft, tanks etc and make live easier for me.

Just curious about one thing, GB.

Wouldn't these "real life" aircraft, tanks, planes, guns, etc. have different names in E20 or have beefed up versions (like your USA B-36 and B-50 bombers)?

For example, in India in 1960, there could be a Panzer 7 or Panzer 8, but not necessarily named "Panzer" but use an Indian name for it instead. Ditto for Chinese jet aircraft- Mirage is OK, but how will that translate into Chinese, or if China contracts Dassault to build a 10 engined bomber like the B-50? Or design something that the company did not build in RL?

For example, the RL Memermschmitt didn't build 6 engined bombers or 10 engined ones like the USA did (I don't think the USA built 10 engined bombers in RL but 6 engined, yeah) but Colombia wants the E20 Memermschmitt to build 6 or 10 engined bombers in our timeline?

B36 had 6 piston and 4 jet engines..

you can call your aircraft, tanks etc what you wish, just provide a reference to what they actually are

Working on rules for military units today, along with economic stuff. They are getting smaller, and rules for training levels will be provided.

B36 had 6 piston and 4 jet engines..

you can call your aircraft, tanks etc what you wish, just provide a reference to what they actually are

Working on rules for military units today, along with economic stuff. They are getting smaller, and rules for training levels will be provided.

By training levels, do you mean it will be possible to increase, say, a 5-points corps to a 8-points corps (but there should be a maximum though, like 10 points for infantry, 20 points for armor for example so no "OMG! I have trained a 100-points military unit")

I think if you spend maybe 2 points per military unit to upgrade them 1-points level up? Will that work?

LOL I just assumed that someone trying to thief Russian and German scientists would be you TLS.

So why would they goto India if they could goto Sweden? Or the UK? Or omfg Colombia?! Or Argentina!! or even South Africa... possibly Australia?

Cheap labor is India's specialty.

Ooh does the USEA get anyone?

So far I have been left over in the tech scramble.

Hey, we can be low-tech buddies (as I've been left behind as well)!

Cheap labor is India's specialty.

Its China's specialty and we can do it better with 100+ million people than j00! :p

Its China's specialty and we can do it better with 100+ million people than j00! :p

Ahh, but where are most companies outsourcing now, hmmmm???

Also, we give better tech support. And we speak english. And we have better food. Thus, we trump you.

Ahh, but where are most companies outsourcing now, hmmmm???

Also, we give better tech support. And we speak english. And we have better food. Thus, we trump you.

Heh.

1. A democratic China will go a long way towards keeping its outsourcing higher than India in E20.

2. English will be more widespread soon with a lot of US companies helping to rebuild China.

3. Almost everybody in the US loves Chinese food. There's literally thousands of Chinese restaurants in the USA- about 10 in my area south of Boston while there's only one India food place I know of in Boston.

Hence, E20 China trumps j00. :p

---------------------------

Ribbing and jesting aside, I think we can start gameplay by this weekend if everything goes well for GB. Any particular ideas for a Sino-Indian RP or stuff by then?

1945 should begin on Monday....

3. Almost everybody in the US loves Chinese food. There's literally thousands of Chinese restaurants in the USA- about 10 in my area south of Boston while there's only one India food place I know of in Boston.

There's loads of Indian takeaways in Britain, admittidly set aside a load of Chinese places as well.

Anyway, TLS: Britain will likely provide aid to assist you to rebuild postwar and to restart your modernisation. Though things would be much easier if you reapplied for membership of the Commonwealth...

There's loads of Indian takeaways in Britain, admittidly set aside a load of Chinese places as well.

Anyway, TLS: Britain will likely provide aid to assist you to rebuild postwar and to restart your modernisation. Though things would be much easier if you reapplied for membership of the Commonwealth...

Oh don't worry, I will. I only left the Commonwealth so that I could join an independent "third-wheel", allying with the MEU and staying out of the war until later, if ever joining in. Now that that's impossible, I'll be back in the commonwealth in no time :D

Military Units

Ground forces
Brigades are 5,000 men (including support needed outside of the brigade)
Divisions and Groups are 20,000 men (as above)
Corps and Units are 50,000 men (as above)

Light infantry units:
All light infantry units can be carried by transport aircraft and later on helicopter, can operate in any terrain without penalty, get combat advantages for cities and rough terrain and movement advantages for jungle, rough, and forest terrain. Costs reflect not only equipment but also initial training. Maintenance reflects training costs.

Parachute brigade cost: 2 points maintenance .25 points, combat strength 1, can be airdropped by 1 transport aircraft up to the limit of its range

Marine light infantry brigade cost 2 points, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 1, can conduct amphibious landings if transported by a transport or amphibious group

Mountain infantry brigade cost 2 points, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 1, can cross high mountain areas and operate in arctic conditions without penalty.

Light infantry division cost 1 points, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 2

Conventional forces
Standard units that have some trucks and heavy weapons, but not as much as mechanized and motorized units do. Cannot be airlifted, but do get combat advantages for cities and rough terrain. No movement advantages or special disadvantages.

Garrison unit cost 3 points, maintenance .25, combat strength 3, combat strength includes flak strength, cannot move except by strategic movement, no partisan / guerilla operations near garrison units.

Infantry division cost 1 point, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 2, the standard infantry division

Infantry corps cost 5 points, maintenance .5 points, combat strength 5, 2 infantry divisions plus corps artillery support

Flak group cost 3 points, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 3, later on includes surface to air missiles, special anti air defense adjustment (reduces damage caused by air attacks.)

Artillery unit 3 points, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 3, provides combat advantages in combat

Mechanized forces
Have a lot of mobility, with all units having sufficient vehicles to move everything at once, and usually includes at least some tanks and other armored vehicles. Special combat advantages against light and conventional forces, but also special terrain disadvantages in rough, swamp, forest, jungle and urban terrain, and special movement disadvantages in forest,, jungle, rough and swamp terrain.

Mechanized infantry division cost 4 points, maintenance .5 points, combat strength 5

Armored division cost 5 points, maintenance .5 points, combat strength 6

Mechanized artillery group cost 5 points, maintenance .5 points, combat strength 4, otherwise as artillery

Mechanized flak group cost 5 points, maitnenace .5 points, combat strength 4, otherwise as flak.

mechanized marine brigade cost 2 points, maintenance .5 points, combat strength 2, can conduct amphibious landings if transported by an amphibious group

HQs cost 10 points, maintenance is 1 point, can reorganize up to 10 air or ground units, and can extend supply and has special combat advantages. Represents not only commanders, but the extensive combat and general support units that make armies function better.

ooc
this will replace what is on the first page of the this thread when finished. Corps from World War III can be broken down into 2 division sized units.

motorized infantry and Infantry forms 2 divisions either infantry or light infantry
airborne, mountain and amphibious corps can form up to 6 brigades
mechanized corps form 2 mechanized divisions
armored corps form 2 armored divisions
flak, artillery and mechanized versions of the same are unchanged
HQs are simply more efficient now

troop quality can effect cost and value (costs are per unit)
Substandard troops - .25 points for maintenance, -1 combat value
average troops as above
highly trained troops +.25 points for maintenance, +1 combat value
elite trained troops +.5 points for maintenance, +2 combat value

So once we start up again, my ground forces would look like this:

I Corp
-1st Mechanized Division
-2nd Mechanized Division
II Corp
-1st Light Infantry Division (1x Parachute Brigade, 1x Mountain Light Infantry Brigade)
-2nd Infantry Division
HQ Unit

Total Maintenance: 4.5 points

I don't know if this is what my post-war army will look like, but it's a place to start. I of course added the extra .5 points to everything to get elite troops (since I have so few compared to other nations), but not to the HQ. Or should I have added it to the HQ?

So once we start up again, my ground forces would look like this:



I don't know if this is what my post-war army will look like, but it's a place to start. I of course added the extra .5 points to everything to get elite troops (since I have so few compared to other nations), but not to the HQ. Or should I have added it to the HQ?

if your HQ gets into combat, you are losing, so I wouldn't bother

if your HQ gets into combat, you are losing, so I wouldn't bother

Unless there's the freakish "Spearman defeats Tank" syndrome. :p

Unless there's the freakish "Spearman defeats Tank" syndrome. :p

Yeah. My crazy Zulus and Xhosas will stab you to death. Iron spear > armored vehicle.

Air Forces
Important rule change: Maintenance no longer upgrades aircraft, it simply keeps them flying. You have to buy new aircraft to get new aircraft, unless it is a simple improvement of the same type (B model replaced by C model for example).

Pilots:
Average pilots: cost: 2 points, maintenance free, training time 6 months
Expert pilots: cost: 2 points, maintenance .25, training time 1 year
Elite pilots: cost: 4 points, maintenance .5 points, training time 2 years

Aircraft now represent 100 fighters, light bombers or fighter bombers or50 medium, heavy or strategic bombers or 50 maritime patrol aircraft or 50 transport aircraft.
Short range aircraft are capable of reaching the front line and a few miles beyond it (about 500 kilometers or less)
Medium range aircraft can conduct longer ranged operations up to 1000 kilometers
Long range aircraft can fly up to 2000 kilometers
Intercontinental range aircraft can fly up to 10,000 kilometers
Tanker units can be paired up with an air unit to increase its range by one (short to medium for example).

Piston and mixed jet/piston engine aircraft
Fighter bombers and single engine light bombers cost 1 point, maintenance .25 points
F51 Mustang air combat 2, strike rating 2 range long (US)
Hawker Fury air combat 3, strike rating 1 range medium (carrier capable) (UK)
P47N air combat 2, strike rating 4, range medium (US)
F4U Corsair air combat 2, strike rating 3, range long (carrier capable) (US)
AD1 Skyraider air combat 1, naval strike rating 6, strike rating 4, range short (carrier capable) (US)
IL10 Sturmavik II air combat 0, naval strike rating 3, strike rating 3, range medium (Russian)
F82 Twin Mustang air combat 2, strikie rating 3, range long, all weather capable, (US)
Mosquito air combat 2, strike rating 2, range long, all weather capable (UK)
DO 335 air combat 3, strike rating 1, range medium, all weather capable (Germany)
TA 152 air combat 2, strike rating 1, range medium (Germany)

Twin engine light bombers cost 2 points, maintenance .25 points
A26 Invader air combat 0, naval strike rating 3, strike rating 5, range medium (US)
JU288 air combat 0, naval strike rating 4, strike rating 4, range medium (Germany)
Mosquito air combat 1, naval strike rating 2, strike rating 4, range long (UK)
AJ-1 Savage air combat 1, naval strike rating 3, strike 3, range medium (heavy carrier capable, nuclear capable) (US)
Chinese Aviation P1Y2 Frances II air combat 0 naval strike rating 4, strike rating 4, range long (Japanese Frances bomber with improved engines now built in China by Chinese National Aviation company)
P2V Neptune air combat rating 2, naval strike rating 5, strike rating 2, all weather capable, maritime patrol aircraft (US)

Heavy and strategic bombers
B50 Super Fortress (a variant of the B29 with better engines and range), air combat rating 3, strike rating 8, nuclear capable, all weather capable, range: long . Cost 4, maintenance cost 1, can refuel by air (US)
B36D Peacemaker (10 engine variant of B36, carried out nuclear attacks on Russia), air combat rating 4, strike rating 10, all weather and nuclear capable, range intercontinental , cost: 5 maintenance cost 2 (US)
PB4Y air combat rating 1, naval strike rating 5, strike rating 4, all weather capable, maritime patrol aircraft cost 4, maintenance cost 1 (US)



Transport and Tanker aircraft
C47/DC3 air combat 0 can airlift 2 brigades or airdrop 1 brigade, range medium cost 2, maintenance .25 (US)
C54 / DC4 air combat 0, can airlift 2 brigades or airdrop 1 brigade, range long, cost 3, maintenance .5 (US)
C82 Flying Boxcar air combat 0, can airlift 1 light division or paradrop 1 brigade, range medium, cost.2, maintenance .25, can refuel by air (US)
C124 Globemaster air combat 0, can airlift 2 light divisions. Range intercontinental (US)
KC50 Tanker (as per B50 bomber) except air combat 2, range long, cost 4, maintenance cost .5 (US)
Handley Page Hastings air combat 0, can airlift 2 brigades or airdrop 1 brigade, cost 3, maintenance .5, range long, can refuel by air (UK)
Arado Ar 232 air combat 0, can airlift 1 brigade or airdrop 1 brigade, range long, cost 2, maintenance .25, (Germany)
SM95 air combat 1, can airlift 2 brigades or air drop 1 brigade, range long, cost 2, maintenance .25 (Italian)
Lincoln Tanker air combat 1, range long, cost 3, maintenance .5 (UK)

Jet fighters, fighter bombers and interceptors cost 2, maintenance .5
F80 Shooting Star air combat 3, strike rating 2, range medium (US)
F84 Thunderstreak air combat 4, strike rating 3, range medium (US)
FH2 Banshee, air combat 5, strike rating 3, range short, carrier capable (US)
F7U Cutlass, air combat 6, strike rating 1, range short, carrier capable (US)
F86E Saber, air combat 7, strike rating 1, range medium, (US)
F86D Saber, air combat 6, strike rating 1, range medium, all weather capable (US)
F100 Super Saber air combat 8, strike rating 2, range medium, (US)
ME –17 Scimitar, air combat 6, strike rating 2, range short (Colombia)
Mig 15 air combat 7, strike rating 1, range short (Poland)
TA183 air combat 5, strike rating 1, range medium (Germany)
Saab 21 air combat 5, strike rating 2, range short (Sweden)
Saab 29, air combat 6, strike rating 1, range short, all weather capable (Sweden)
Meteor XI, air combat 6, strike rating 1, range medium, all weather capable (UK)
Vampire III air combat 6, strike rating 3, range medium, carrier capable, (UK)
Hawker Hunter F1 air combat 8, strike rating 3, range medium, (UK)
Mig 17 air combat 8, strike rating 1, range short (Poland)
Mystere II air combat 7, strike rating 2, range medium (Dassault Aviation of China)

The Hawker Hunter, Mig 17 and F100 Super Saber can do mach 1 in level flight and are tech level 7 aircraft

Jet Light bombers cost 3, maintenance 1
Arado 234 air combat 3, strike rating 2, range medium (Germany)
B57/Canberra air combat 4 strike rating 5, range medium, air refueling capable (US/UK)

Jet medium bombers cost 4, maintenance 2
B47 Stratojet air combat 6, strike rating 8, range long, air refueling capable, all weather, nuclear capable (US)

I was wondering what it will take to have my Dassault company build and design aircraft in categories that I don't currently have, like heavy bombers or such?

Then how do I upgrade my aircraft to these better versions that Dassault probably never built in RL? Like for example, Mystere V or Mystere X?

What happened to Focke-Wulf being better planes than Messerschmidt...

Parthini']What happened to Focke-Wulf being better planes than Messerschmidt...

They are working on aircraft... once they get production restarted, and they do make better planes then Messerschmidt. The TA183 is a 1946 design historically that never actually flew but would have in 1947. A number of historians consider it the direct predecessor to the Mig15. Which is how I am treating it. In this game it saw combat in 1941, and was the principal fighter for the Union the last year of the war.

China, research aircraft as you wish, but I will update available aircraft each year. The ones listed so far are what are available for 1945 (at this point, anything 1951 or earlier is available, in other words, we are 6 years ahead instead of 5 now)

updated military units at the start of the thread... this replaces all previous costs etc

now would be a good time to start posting your postwar military forces

losing their edge...

at the end of the war, the nations that fought it had elite and well trained levels for their military forces, so their troops 1943-44 stayed at the well trained level even though money wasn't spent on training.

However beginning 1945, unless money is spent to keep them at the elite or well trained level, they slip down to average. Training has a short shelf live. An example, the US Army historically was one of the best armies ever to see action by the end of World War II. Yet 5 years later, the Korean War showed that 5 years of peacetime had created severe training deficiencies. Enlisted men were mannning weapons like bazookas and machine guns that they had rarely fired because of cuts in the training budget. It almost cost the US a disastrous defeat at the hand of the North Koreans.

So unless you spend money on training, your armies will slip into peacetime patterns. Which is average and normal.

Korean Armed Forces

C-in-C: Our Majesty Emperor Gang

Korea has begun taking advantage of its newly rebuilt military to make a few reorganizations and changes.

Korean Army:

2 infantry division .5 points, 2 mountain infantry brigades .5 points

Korean Air Force:

1 F86 fighter unit –.5 points, 2 Corsair fighter bomber units .25 points, 1 C47 transport unit .25, 4 expert pilots 1 point

Korean Navy:

OOC: Finagled from the new military setups. I knew I had ships around here somewhere I got from the Union.

IC:

1 Light Cruiser, .5 matenance
1 Destroyer Squadron, .25 matenance
2 Submarine Groups, .5 matenance (disbanded to make way for improved Submarines, to be released in 1946)

Upcoming Units-

1 Parachute Infantry Brigade
1 HQ Unit

Army:
4 Garrisons (3 are reserve)
1 HQ unit (reserve)
2 light infantry marine brigades and 1 airborne brigade with high training

Navy--RAN:
1 Heavy Cruiser (HMAS Australia)
1 Light Cruiser (HMAS Melbourne)
20 Destroyers

Airforce--RAAF:
1 Vampire Jet Fighter
1 Mosquito Light Bomber
1 Corsair Fighter Bomber
1 C47 transport
(all aircraft have expert pilots)

USEA CSC military report
Circa 1945


Army- USEAA
8 Infantry divisions
1 Parachute brigade
1 HQ unit
2 Flak groups (Hanoi and Saigon)
1 Mechanized infantry division
[Four infantry divisions have been demobilised]

Marines- UIMC
1 Marine light infantry brigade

Air Force- USEAAF
1 F84 fighter bomber unit
1 C47 transport unit
1 AD1 Skyraider light bomber unit
3 Expert pilots

Navy- USEAN
1 Light ship unit (10 destroyers)
2 Light ship units (40 corvettes)

OOC:

All I know of my military right now is the following....

12 infantry corps
2 HQ
4 P47 fighter bombers
4 pilots

7 points maintainence.



I may be wrong though but this is what I figure from the WW-3 thread.

OOC:

All I know of my military right now is the following....

12 infantry corps
2 HQ
4 P47 fighter bombers
4 pilots

7 points maintainence.

I may be wrong though but this is what I figure from the WW-3 thread.

that is correct, you can adjust number, for example, create 24 infantry divisons (from those 12 corps), 2 HQs, 4 P47N fighter bomber units (400 aircraft total), 4 expert pilots. Some of those divisions could then create 3 brigade sized units each. Or you could keep them as is, and buy new units as well.

Military of the Federation of Asian States

Army
x1 Garrison (Peshawar)
x1 Garrison (Tehran)
x1 Garrison (Kabul)
x1 Garrison (Agra)
x1 Garrison (Tabriz)
x1 Garrison (Mumbai)
x1 HQ (Kermanshah)
x1 Mechanized Infantry (Yazd)
x1 Mechanized Infantry (Bandar Abbas)
x1 Mechanized Infantry (Kandahar)
x1 Mechanized Infantry (Abadan)

Air Force
x2 Average Pilots
x2 C47 transport units
x1 Mosquito Bomber Unit (Tehran)

Navy
x1 Light Ship Unit, 20 corvettes (Madras)

Merchant Marine
x30 Merchant ships = 15,000,000 tons of shipping

Two brilliant Russian physicists, Tamm and Sakahorov, move to Sweden to take up positions at Universities there.

http://www.aip.org/history/sakharov/hbomb.htm

GB, I'm curious.

You said I could research planes that my aerospace company never built in RL, correct? For example, Dassault built fighters and interceptors in RL, but I don't recall them building heavy bombers, heliocopters, or carrier planes (unless I'm mistaken).

So in this case, if I want Dassault to research and build heliocopters, heavy bombers, carrier planes, etc. do I have to spend economic points on them or do they happen automatically like with some other military stuff? Also, should I try to do custom designs for Dassault Heavy Bombers or Dassault Heliocopters, or do I have to "steal" heavy bomber stats or heliocopter stats from the USA or UK or whatever like Apache or Huey Heliocopters and call them Dassault Heliocopters or Dassault Gunships?

I need a bit of clarification on this. This clarification could help the other players as well like Colombia or India or Sweden regarding military equipment and technologies that RL companies like Mermsechemitt didn't "survive" or were contracted to build?

use historical aircraft, tanks, ships etc please. You can call them whatever you wish (the China Aviation Company Kirin bomber for example, could use the information for the Tu-4 that existed in real life)

just post links to any aircraft, tank or ship class you rename so I know what it actually can do.

Stay within timeline though. At tech level 7 the F100 transonic jet fighter shows up before the F104 Interceptor which is in turn succeeded by the F4 Phantom and then the F15 Eagle.

Remember, the US and UK are not at tech level 7, and can build any aircraft, ship, tank etc that existed in real life in 1952. So when Colombia, Sweden, Australia, and South Africa reach tech level 7 next year, they can build any aircraft, ship etc that existed in real life in 1952, while the US and UK can build things that show up in 1953.

Speaking of tech level 7
1945 USA, UK, Canada
1946 Scandic Union, South Africa, Burgundy, Colombia, Australia, Italy
1947 Korea (it pays not to sufffer a lot of war damage), Argentina, Poland,
1948 Japan, Ukraine, Russia, France,Germany, Spain
1949 China,
1950 India, USAE, Brazil

(Germany and Russia would be further up except for all of the damage they suffered)

use historical aircraft, tanks, ships etc please. You can call them whatever you wish (the China Aviation Company Kirin bomber for example, could use the information for the Tu-4 that existed in real life)

just post links to any aircraft, tank or ship class you rename so I know what it actually can do.

Stay within timeline though. At tech level 7 the F100 transonic jet fighter shows up before the F104 Interceptor which is in turn succeeded by the F4 Phantom and then the F15 Eagle.

Remember, the US and UK are not at tech level 7, and can build any aircraft, ship, tank etc that existed in real life in 1952. So when Colombia, Sweden, Australia, and South Africa reach tech level 7 next year, they can build any aircraft, ship etc that existed in real life in 1952, while the US and UK can build things that show up in 1953.

Speaking of tech level 7
1945 USA, UK, Canada
1946 Scandic Union, South Africa, Burgundy, Colombia, Australia, Italy
1947 Korea (it pays not to sufffer a lot of war damage), Argentina, Poland,
1948 Japan, Ukraine, Russia, France,
1949 China,
1950 India, USAE, Brazil

OOC:

So basically, just use whatever RL designs are available in the timeframe we're in plus 6 years, correct? But my main concern is what if someone decides to steal a design or idea of another nation that built it in RL?

For example... I decide to "steal" the concept and stats for the B-52 Stratofortress bomber and have Dassault build a heavy jet bomber named "Dragon" that is basically the B-52 bomber. However, the USA built the B-52 in RL. Then what happens to the US in E20- will it build the B-52 or be forced to build something else altogether because the idea was "stolen"?

Thats my major concern though.

Colombian Armed Forces, 1946 (One Year Ahead)

Army
6 x Mechanized Divisions (Elite Training)
1st Mechanized Division
2nd Mechanized Division
3rd Mechanized Division
4th Mechanized Division
5th Mechanized Division
6th Mechanized Division
4 x Armoured Divisions (Elite Training)
7th Armoured Division
8th Armoured Division
9th Armoured Division
10th Armoured Division

10 x Mountain Regiments (Brigades) (Elite Training)
11th Mountain Division
101st Mountain Regiment
202st Mountain Regiment
12th Mountain Division
303st Mountain Regiment
404st Mountain Regiment
14th Mountain Division
505st Mountain Regiment
606st Mountain Regiment
15th Mountain Division
707st Mountain Regiment
808st Mountain Regiment
16th Mountain Division
909st Mountain Regiment
101st Mountain Regiment

1 x Mechanized Artillery
17th Artillery Corp
2 x HQ Unit
1st Command Group
2nd Command Group
1 x Theatre Supply Unit

2 x Flak Artillery
1st Mobile Air Defense Regiment
2nd Mobile Air Defense Regiment

Airforce
10 x Jet Fighters (Me-17)

Carribean Air Zone
200 Me-17
50 - Guadaloupe - 10th Air Wing - 426th Squadron, 427th Squadron, 428th Squadron
50 - Martinique - 10th Air Wing - 411th Squadron, 412th Squadron, 414th Squadron
100 - Maricabrillo - 9th Air Wing

Guyana Air Zone
300 Me-17
100 - French Guyana (Cayenne) - 8th Air Wing
100 - Suriname (Brokopondo) - 7th Air Wing
100 - British Guyana (Georgetown) - 6th Air Wing
Gran Colombia Air Zone
300 Me-17
100 - Bogota - 1st Air Wing
100 - Puerto Carreno - 3rd Air Wing
100 - Caracas - 2nd Air Wing
100 - B57 Canberra Medium Jet Bomber 100 - Puerto Carreno - 12th Bomber Wing
Panama Canal Air Zone
200 Me-17
100 - North Side of Canal - 5th Air Wing
100 - South Side of Canal - 4th Air Wing

Navy
Carribean/Home Waters Carrier Battle Group (Based in Panama City, with Ports in Barranquilla and Caracas)
Jet Capable, Fleet Carrier Vincente Sewell
Heavy Missile Cruiser, Unnamed
10 Destroyers
2 Fleet Replenishment Ships
Pacific Carrier Battle Group (Based in Cali)
Jet Capable, Fleet Carrier Dario Echandia
Heavy Missile Cruiser, Manuel Ancizar
10 Destroyers
10 Frigates
3 Fleet Replenishment Ships
Atlantic Carrier Battle Group (Based in Carupano, with ports in Guadaloupe, Cayenne, and Martinique)
Jet Capable, Fleet Carrier Francisco de Paula Santander
Heavy Missile Cruiser, Alberto Lleras Camargo
10 Destroyers
10 Frigates
3 Fleet Replenishment Ships

Blue is Reserve Units/National Guard type deals
Red means not built as of 1945, but will be for 1946.

OOC:

So basically, just use whatever RL designs are available in the timeframe we're in plus 6 years, correct? But my main concern is what if someone decides to steal a design or idea of another nation that built it in RL?

For example... I decide to "steal" the concept and stats for the B-52 Stratofortress bomber and have Dassault build a heavy jet bomber named "Dragon" that is basically the B-52 bomber. However, the USA built the B-52 in RL. Then what happens to the US in E20- will it build the B-52 or be forced to build something else altogether because the idea was "stolen"?

Thats my major concern though.

It shouldn't be a problem. Capable combat aircraft tend to share characteristics in common in any case. In the case above, the US would build the B52 anyway (and its already in the final design stages in any case).

South African Military 1945

Army – 4.5 points upkeep
I Corp
-1st Mechanized Infantry Division (elite)
-2nd Mechanized Infantry Division (elite)
II Corp
-3rd Light Infantry Division
-5th Parachute Brigade (elite)
-6th Mountain Brigade (elite)
-4th Mechanized Infantry Division
1x Headquarters Unit
1x Field Artillery Unit

Navy – 3 points upkeep
5x Light Cruisers
2x Destroyer Squadron

Air Force – .5 points upkeep
1x Pilot Unit (elite)
A fighter unit is being built in 1945 and will enter service in 1946

Total Maintenance: 8 points (where applicable, extra maintenance spent to maximize combat effectiveness)

use historical aircraft, tanks, ships etc please. You can call them whatever you wish (the China Aviation Company Kirin bomber for example, could use the information for the Tu-4 that existed in real life)

just post links to any aircraft, tank or ship class you rename so I know what it actually can do.

Stay within timeline though. At tech level 7 the F100 transonic jet fighter shows up before the F104 Interceptor which is in turn succeeded by the F4 Phantom and then the F15 Eagle.

Remember, the US and UK are not at tech level 7, and can build any aircraft, ship, tank etc that existed in real life in 1952. So when Colombia, Sweden, Australia, and South Africa reach tech level 7 next year, they can build any aircraft, ship etc that existed in real life in 1952, while the US and UK can build things that show up in 1953.

Speaking of tech level 7
1945 USA, UK, Canada
1946 Scandic Union, South Africa, Burgundy, Colombia, Australia, Italy
1947 Korea (it pays not to sufffer a lot of war damage), Argentina, Poland,
1948 Japan, Ukraine, Russia, France,Germany, Spain
1949 China,
1950 India, USAE, Brazil

(Germany and Russia would be further up except for all of the damage they suffered)

update

Colombian Armed Forces, 1946 (One Year Ahead)

[

Red means not built as of 1945, but will be for 1946.

A significant number of Voters want defense cuts, as they feel the world is safe now and don't see the need for a huge army (proportionally) or huge air force. They are ok with the navy though.

ooc
you have to figure a lot of people in the Democratic nations are pretty sick of big militaries after three decades of Cold War with the Socialist Euroasians and 2 Global Wars. Now that the Communists have been crushed, they want fewer men in uniform, especially fewer conscipts (draftees). Which is why the US made huge cuts in its military. You can get aaround part of that by making a lot of those units (maybe half or more) the equivilant of National Guard and Air National Guard units.

Ok, I understand that I got bombed quite a bit. However, I get tech level 7 only one year before China who like only just got tech level 6.5 AND got nuked and bio attacked after like a decade of civil war. I also find it whack that I get the level at the same time as the Ukraine, and Russia, both of which sustained huge amounts of damage due to ground combat, something that Germany didn't have much of.

ooc: Wait, do I still have to pay upkeep on reserve units?

Parthini']Ok, I understand that I got bombed quite a bit. However, I get tech level 7 only one year before China who like only just got tech level 6.5 AND got nuked and bio attacked after like a decade of civil war. I also find it whack that I get the level at the same time as the Ukraine, and Russia, both of which sustained huge amounts of damage due to ground combat, something that Germany didn't have much of.

China is getting help from the US and UK, as are you. The Ukraine and Russia also got significant assistance from the US. In any case, Germany would have reached tech level 7 the same time the US and UK did, but lost ground due to damage, and Russian and Ukrainian scientists are just as good as yours and lost ground to the same extent.

Remember, you guys were all one big happy Union for a long time, and so was Poland (who managed to escape the war unscathed for the most part)

ooc: Wait, do I still have to pay upkeep on reserve units?

yes, although you can get away with less training for ground units, as they take time to mobilize during war anyway.

Ok, I have put units on reserve, but I really don't feel like dropping their training. I don't think I'd save that much anyways, and I'd rather have them prepared. Once helicopters and rapid reaction forces come around, I'll downsize again.

clarified rules for converting all gun ships into missile ships (only cruisers and battleships at this tech level for now, later missiles shrink in size and destroyers and frigates can become missile ships)

Also

At tech level 7, fleet and heavy carriers operate airborne early warning aircraft. Usually these are converted torpedo bombers like the TBF Avenger, or AD1 Skyraider (or the AJ1 Savage for American ships).

10 fighters(7 Saab 29, 3 F100 Sabers)- 5 points maintainance
2 medium bombers(B47)- 4 points
2 light bombers(B57)-2 points
14 pilots- 7 points elite
1 HQ- 1 point
3 armored divisions-1.5+1.5 elite
4 flak-1
3 mech arty-1.5
2 mech div-1 point
2 mountain inf bri-.5 points+1 elite
2 attack sub groups-1
4 destroyer squadrons-1 point
1 heavy missile cruiser-.5
2 anti-aircraft cruiser-1 point

30 points maintanance

Note: Some of these units have not been bought/upgraded yet.

notable aircraft designs being researched (and date they will be available for production)

US Air Force
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-52_Stratofortress (strategic bomber)(1948)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_YB-60 (strategic bomber)(1947)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matador_%28rocket%29 (a nuclear tipped missile)(1948)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-69_Constellation (heavy transport)(1945)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-119_Flying_Boxcar(1946)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-130_Hercules (1950)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-101_Voodoo (long ranger interceptor/escort fighter)(1949)

Tupolev designs (for Sweden)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-14 (light bomber)(1948)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-16 (medium bomber)(1949)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-20 (1950)

Saab aircraft (Sweden)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_21R (1945) fighter bomber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_29 (1945) fighter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_35_Draken (1947) fighter

Illuyshin Designs (for Korea, under the name of Hong Aircraft)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-28 (called the Hong H-5)(1948)

Dassault designs (China)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Ouragan (1945) fighter bomber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mystere (1945) fighter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Super_Myst%C3%A8re (1949) fighter

Mig aircraft (Poland)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-17 (1947)

Yak aircraft (India)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-23 (1946)(tech level 6 fighter)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-25 (1950)

Focke Wulf Aircraft
TA-186 (same as the Mig 19)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-19 (1948)

RAF and RN aircraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Sea_Venom (navy fighter)1946
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Javelin (all weather interceptor 1948)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_Lightning (interceptor 1952)

One Millitia Unit

Oh, and the President owns a nice revolver...

Major armored vehicle manufacturing nations 1945
USA
M26 Pershing heavy tank, M24 Chaffee light tank, M4A5E8 Sherman (with 90 mm gun), M7 Self propelled 105 mm gun, M36 tank destroyr, M18 light tank destroyer, M2 Halftrack (and variants), ready for production M46 Patton (better 90 mm gun), M41 Walker Bulldog light tank (76 mm gun), M103 heavy tank (120 mm gun, not available until 1950

UK
Centurian II (20 pounder gun), under development Centurian III (L105 mm gun)

Burgundy
AMX30 (available 1947)

Germany
working on the following tank design series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entwicklung_series (I will provide you with something to use for this when they actually are ready for production in 1947)

India
improved versions of the Panther, Jagdpanther (88 mm gun) and Tiger II (88 mm gun)

Ukraine
T54 main battle tank (100 mm gun), SU100 tank destroyer, PT76 amphibious light tank (1946)

Poland
builds SU100s, SU122s and T34/85 tanks

So when is my favorite gun (the AK-47) developed? And by whom?

developed 1947. Im personally waiting for the AK-74 or AK-101.. or AEK-971... or the AN-94

Illuyshin Designs (for Korea, under the name of Hong Aircraft)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-28 (called the Hong H-5)(1948)

I get Illyushin? Well, I am glad to not be forgotten in the whole Union Scientist Diaspora. Seriously-thanks.

I can't help but be curious....

What kind of military equipment is China able to domestically produce other than the Dassault planes? For example, what standard rifle, tank, jeep, etc. is China able to domestically build without relying on purchasing foreign stuff?

India, you will start producing AK47s as soon as you hit Tech level 7. China, still pondering what you can build, although truthfully, not much at the moment due to widespread damage.

Sweden, look up Finnish smal arms, especially their submachinegun

India, you will start producing AK47s as soon as you hit Tech level 7. China, still pondering what you can build, although truthfully, not much at the moment due to widespread damage.

Sweden, look up Finnish smal arms, especially their submachinegun

Kick-ass! I make the AK-47!

India, you will start producing AK47s as soon as you hit Tech level 7. China, still pondering what you can build, although truthfully, not much at the moment due to widespread damage.

Sweden, look up Finnish smal arms, especially their submachinegun

Would it b a stretch to say that China knows how to domestically build Panthers and Tigers, from the purchase of them from France just prior to WW-3? China reverse engineered these designs, but didn't put them into production because of the war. Consquently, China could possibly build better variants of Tigers and Panthers (Tiger-III or Panther-III and so on).

Would this work tank-wise for China?

Would it b a stretch to say that China knows how to domestically build Panthers and Tigers, from the purchase of them from France just prior to WW-3? China reverse engineered these designs, but didn't put them into production because of the war. Consquently, China could possibly build better variants of Tigers and Panthers (Tiger-III or Panther-III and so on).

Would this work tank-wise for China?

thats well within reason.. although for now, China can only build the Panther G and Tiger II

thats well within reason.. although for now, China can only build the Panther G and Tiger II

Whew, at least the issue about tanks has been resolved. However, there's still the question of infantry weapons, jeeps, flak units, etc.... Or will that be too complicated to think up or find right resources for? Its just that I'd like to know what China is able to equip itself with after the Reconstruction period (after finish all factory rebuilding).

Whew, at least the issue about tanks has been resolved. However, there's still the question of infantry weapons, jeeps, flak units, etc.... Or will that be too complicated to think up or find right resources for? Its just that I'd like to know what China is able to equip itself with after the Reconstruction period (after finish all factory rebuilding).

Any nation with at least one industrial center can produce light infantry weapons and artillery of appropriate tech level. Your choice as to what they actually are. They can be licensed from nations that invented them, or simply reverse engineered and built.

Nuclear Weapons

dates of historical developments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_explosion
subtract 5 years

The Union and United States both used Little Boy type fission weapons during the Third Great War. Since that time, the US has developed the Fat Man type weapon, and developed 'boosted' fission bombs (400 kiloton weapons). At this time, it takes a very large aircraft to carry a boosted weapon (B47 size, which can carry one) or at least a twin engined bomber (AJ1 or bigger) to carry a Little Boy type (20 kiloton) bomb.

The US conducted the Bikini tests in 1944 in this timeline.

To build atomic weapons:
You must spend 24 points a year for 3 years to develop the needed infrastructure (seperation plants, reactors, fuel production facilities) and technology to actually build the bombs. .

You get a working bomb midway through the third year. These weapons are 20 kilotons and can only be carried by a large bomber. 6 points a year retains an operational program allowing for building 12 bombs a year

To build boosted fission bombs, another 24 points and must have atomic weapons. However, you can shrink the size of atomic bombs so that big missiles and 2 engined bombers can carry them, but only 4 engine or bigger planes for the boosted weapons (which are 250 -400 kilotons). Boosted bombs are tech level 7. 6 points a year retains an operational program allowing for building 12 bombs a year

To build a Hydrogen bomb, you must spend 24 points a year for 3 years to develop it. You must also spend 24 points on the sciences needed for the technology to build it. You must be tech level 7 to even begin the process. Initial bomb is 10 - 15 megatons (see link above). For every 12 points spend thereafter you get better bomb technology leading to the development of tactical nuclear weapons (1 - 50 kilotons) by the 5th year after developing the H-Bomb and super (25 - 100 megaton weapons) by the 10th year of development. Further developments (and this does require 12 points a year for every single year) leads to neutron weapons by the 20th year of development and so called 'clean' weapons by the 25th year. An additional 6 points a year retains an operational program allowing for building 100 bombs a year, for every 1 point above that, another 30 weapons are produced.

Nuclear technology is complicated to say the least.

Missiles cannot carry H-bombs until tactical weapons are available (in other words, the warheads become small enough to fit in a missile)

for those who want to know

Military of the Federation of Asian States, 1946

Army
x1 Garrison (Peshawar)
x1 Garrison (Tehran)
x1 Garrison (Kabul)
x1 Garrison (Agra)
x1 Garrison (Tabriz)
x1 Garrison (Mumbai)
x1 HQ (Kermanshah)
x1 Mechanized Infantry (Yazd)
x1 Mechanized Infantry (Bandar Abbas)
x1 Mechanized Infantry (Kandahar)
x1 Mechanized Infantry (Abadan)
x1 Light Infantry (Srinagar)
x1 Light Infantry (Sikkim)
x1 Light Infantry (Bettiah)
x1 Light Infantry (Meerut)
x1 Armored (Agra)
x1 Armored (Amritsar)

Air Force
x2 Average Pilots
x2 C47 transport units
x1 Mosquito Bomber Unit (Tehran)

Navy
x1 Light Ship Unit, 20 corvettes (Madras)

Merchant Marine
x30 Merchant ships = 15,000,000 tons of shipping

1945
The US and UK work on practical surface to air missiles, as do engineers in Germany and Russia (mostly on paper).

Although the Union had deployed Wasserfall systems late in the war, they weren't terribly effective and lacked the range and target acquisition capability to deal with American jamming (they were wire guided or radio guided).

Better radar guided versions are still in the experimental stages.

Korean Armed Forces

C-in-C: Our Majesty Emperor Gang

Korea has begun taking advantage of its newly rebuilt military to make a few reorganizations and changes.

1 HQ Unit-1pt

Korean Army:

2 infantry division .5 points, 2 mountain infantry brigades .5 points, 1 Parachute Infantry Brigade (elite level)

Korean Air Force:

1 F86 fighter unit –.5 points, 2 Corsair fighter bomber units .25 points, 1 C47 transport unit .25, 4 expert pilots 1 point

Korean Navy:

OOC: Finagled from the new military setups. I knew I had ships around here somewhere I got from the Union.

IC:

1 Light Cruiser, .5 matenance
1 Destroyer Squadron, .25 matenance
2 Attack Submarine Groups

Upcoming Units-

1 shipping unit

Britain hereby transfers 1 squadron (5 vessels) of destroyers from the Home Fleet to the German Navy in lieu of financial aid for 1946. Their place will be taken by new ships laid down this year.

This is by request of the German government. I do not believe this contravenes any post-war treaties, it's just a few small vessels for littoral work. If I am wrong please inform me...

Britain hereby transfers 1 squadron (5 vessels) of destroyers from the Home Fleet to the German Navy in lieu of financial aid for 1946. Their place will be taken by new ships laid down this year.

This is by request of the German government. I do not believe this contravenes any post-war treaties, it's just a few small vessels for littoral work. If I am wrong please inform me...

The US would feel better about that if Germany signs a treaty acknowledging and pledging to respect border changes that occured as a result of the war, along with a permanent pledge to leave Denmark, Burgundy, the Netherlands and Belgium, and Austria alone.

The US would feel better about that if Germany signs a treaty acknowledging and pledging to respect border changes that occured as a result of the war, along with a permanent pledge to leave Denmark, Burgundy, the Netherlands and Belgium, and Austria alone.

ooc: any particular reason that poland didnt make that list?:rolleyes:

ooc: any particular reason that poland didnt make that list?:rolleyes:

no reason, Poland should be included as well

The US Army asks for bids for a tracked enclosed top armored personnel carrier design. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians develop the BTR152, a wheeled open top APC.

The BTR152 is superior to the M2 Halftrack in wide use throughout the world.

I would like to research heliocopters and gunships. So far I've found a few ideas.

1. Hueys (didn't come up until 1956 - 1960) so still a few years away from now game-wise.

2. The Triebflugel (proposed in 1945 I believe so doable right now in E20).

http://www.luft46.com/ghart/ghtrieb.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_Triebflugel

I would like to research heliocopters and gunships. So far I've found a few ideas.

1. Hueys (didn't come up until 1956 - 1960) so still a few years away from now game-wise.

2. The Triebflugel (proposed in 1945 I believe so doable right now in E20).

http://www.luft46.com/ghart/ghtrieb.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_Triebflugel

from what I have read in Luftwaffe 1946 (the book), post war tests indicate this is not a feasable design even at tech level 8

however, the Germans did come up with some actual workable helicopters

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Dictionary/Fa_223/DI52.htm

http://www.geocities.com/chopperjoker/fa284.htm

the US Army accepts the CH21 Shawnee (Flying Banana) helicopter for trials as a cargo and heavy medivac helicopter

http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/aahist.htm#H21

Another helicopter, the CH34 is on the drawing board, but still at least a couple of years away from flight. The CH37, a heavy lift helicopter, is also in development.

The US Navy and Army and Air Force have a number of helicopter types in service in the liaison, medivac, light transport, and observation role.

no reason, Poland should be included as well

good, i was just checking. We have a history of polish bashing in E20 so....

from what I have read in Luftwaffe 1946 (the book), post war tests indicate this is not a feasable design even at tech level 8

however, the Germans did come up with some actual workable helicopters

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Dictionary/Fa_223/DI52.htm

http://www.geocities.com/chopperjoker/fa284.htm

How soon can I build these? Do I have to spend research points into the field of heliocopters and VTOL aircraft to get these? Or is it acquired automatically as I have Dassault company?

How soon can I build these? Do I have to spend research points into the field of heliocopters and VTOL aircraft to get these? Or is it acquired automatically as I have Dassault company?

Yes, you can build them. However, it will be at least another 2 years before they are ready to deploy in sufficient numbers to count as an air unit.

Italian Military - 1946

Regia Esercito
2x Brigata Alpini
8x Divisione Difensiva (garrison)
3x Divisione Bersaglieri (mechanized)
4x Divisione della Difesa di Aria (flak)
2x Divisione Dell’armatura (armor)
1x Commandante (HQ)

Regia Aeronautica
Ale del Combattente (Fighter wings)
3x Ala - F80
5x Pilote (Average)
2x Ala - F100 Super Saber

Regia Marina

1x Heavy Carrier
1x Ala - Vampire III
1x Pilote (Expert)

1° Flotta
3 Heavy Missile Cruisers: Trento, Trieste, Bolzano
3 Light Cruisers: Alberico da Barbiano, Armando Diaz, Luigi Savoia Duca delgi Abruzzi
15 Destroyers

2° Flotta
3 Heavy Missile Cruisers: Zara, Fiume, Pola
3 Light Cruisers: Muzio Attendolo, Pompeo Magno, Raimondo Montecuccoli
15 Destroyers

Note: units that are grey and italicized are under construction.

When -or if- the UN allows France an army I need to know about what armored divisions and aircraft I can produce (by Renault or other companies) compared to others.

Can anyone help me with this?

French Tanks:

RL date=E20 date +5

Name, type, manufacturer (RL date)

AMX-13, light tank, Atelier de Construction Roanne [ACR] (1953)
AMX 50 120mm, heavy tank, ACR (1951)
M24 Chaffee, light tanlk, Cadillac [from American General Motors design] (1944, later model 1950)


French Aircraft:

Name, type, manufacturer (RL date)

Fouga Magister, 2 seat turbojet trainer, Fouga (1948)
Dassault MD.450 Ouragan, jet fighter bomber, Dassault (1949)

I realise that some of the above companies may have left France post-war but the lists should help you somewhat.

Also I presume you are keeping the world famous Légion Étrangère?

French Tanks:

RL date=E20 date +5

Name, type, manufacturer (RL date)

AMX-13, light tank, Atelier de Construction Roanne [ACR] (1953)
AMX 50 120mm, heavy tank, ACR (1951)
M24 Chaffee, light tanlk, Cadillac [from American General Motors design] (1944, later model 1950)


French Aircraft:

Name, type, manufacturer (RL date)

Fouga Magister, 2 seat turbojet trainer, Fouga (1948)
Dassault MD.450 Ouragan, jet fighter bomber, Dassault (1949)

I realise that some of the above companies may have left France post-war but the lists should help you somewhat.

Also I presume you are keeping the world famous Légion Étrangère?

Dassault left, although it kept a factory in France to build civilian designs. Fouga remains in France however. The AMX tanks will be available after France hits tech level 7.

The US will agree to let France have an army of 6 divisions, an Air Force of 2 fighter wings, 2 transport wings, but insists France keep only a Coast Guard (up to 3 coastal patrol or escort groups). The US will tolerate the Foreign Legion if it is used strictly for UN peacekeeping missions.

Dassault left, although it kept a factory in France to build civilian designs. Fouga remains in France however. The AMX tanks will be available after France hits tech level 7.

The US will agree to let France have an army of 6 divisions, an Air Force of 2 fighter wings, 2 transport wings, but insists France keep only a Coast Guard (up to 3 coastal patrol or escort groups). The US will tolerate the Foreign Legion if it is used strictly for UN peacekeeping missions.

Very well, millitary construction is set to begin January next year.

Escort cruiser consists of 1 ship cost 4 points, maintenance .25 points
construction time 1 year


armored cavalry brigade / armored brigade cost 2 points, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 2



TA183D air combat 6, strike rating 2, range medium (Germany)

light jet bombers cost 3, maintenance .5
IL28 (Hong 5) medium bomber air combat 5, strike rating 5, range medium (Korea)
B57 Canberra medium bomber air combat 5, strike rating 6, range medium (US/UK)
Tu14 medium bomber air combat 5, strike rating 6, range medium (Sweden)

heavy jet bombers cost 4, maintenance 1
B47 heavy bomber, air combat 6, strike rating 8, range long (US)(nuclear capable)
Tu 16 (Badger) heavy bomber air combat 4, strike rating 7, range long (Sweden)(nuclear capable)
Vickers Valiant Heavy bomber air combat 5, strike rating 8, range long (UK)(nuclear capable)

strategic bombers (jet) cost 6, maintenance 2
B52 Stratofortress, air combat 8, strike rating 12, range intercontinental (US)(nuclear capable)

Helicopter units cost 2, maintenance .25
transport helicopter (can lift 1 light infantry, alpine, marine light infantry or airborne brigade)

more new units

GB: Any ideas in relation to costs and abilities of the following?

Aircraft:
Hawker Sea Hawk carrier aircraft (first flight 1951, in service from 1953)
de Havilland Venom (first flight 1949, entered service 1951)

I believe that these will be available to Britain (Venom from 1945, Sea Hawk from 1947) following the 6 year rule. The Venom was a fairly well equipped ground attack aircraft amred with 4 20mm cannon and either 2 1000lb bombs or 8 60lb rockets. The Sea Hawk was a carrier based aircraft, with arevolutionary nose wheel to make carrier landings easier it started as a fighter but had successful varients armed with two 500 lb bombs and 16 rockets.

GB: Any ideas in relation to costs and abilities of the following?

Aircraft:
Hawker Sea Hawk carrier aircraft (first flight 1951, in service from 1953)
de Havilland Venom (first flight 1949, entered service 1951)

I believe that these will be available to Britain (Venom from 1945, Sea Hawk from 1947) following the 6 year rule. The Venom was a fairly well equipped ground attack aircraft amred with 4 20mm cannon and either 2 1000lb bombs or 8 60lb rockets. The Sea Hawk was a carrier based aircraft, with arevolutionary nose wheel to make carrier landings easier it started as a fighter but had successful varients armed with two 500 lb bombs and 16 rockets.

Sea Hawk is equiv to the F9F Cougar, the Venom is equiv to the F7U Cutlass in all major respects

Cheers GB.

Now to mastermind next year's economy...

having trouble finding the F9F cougar and the Vampire III on the new list. did they get deleted somehow, and if so is it because they are out of date? (specific issues with the vampire since half my airforce is that fighter)