NationStates Jolt Archive

Argentine Active Army: (90,000 men)

1st Infantry Division: (15,000 men)
1st Infantry Regement (5,000)
3rd Infantry Regement (4,500)
4th Infantry Regement (4,500)
201st Artillery Battalion (1,000)

2nd Infantry Division: (15,000 men)
5th Infantry Regement (4,500)
7th Infantry Regement (5,000)
2nd Mounted Infantry Regement (4,500)
202nd Artillery Battalion (1,000)

3rd Cavalry Division: (13,000 men)
1st Mounted Infantry Regement (4,000)
2nd Cavalry Regement (4,000)
1st Cavalry Regement (4,000)
203rd Artillery Battalion (1,000)

4th Infantry Division: (15,000 men)
2nd Infantry Regement (5,000)
4th Mounted Infantry Regement (4,500)
9th Infantry Regment (4,500)
204th Artillery Battalion (1,000)

5th Mounted Infantry Division: (15,000 men)
3rd Cavalry Regement (4,000)
5th Mounted Infantry Regement (5,000)
3rd Mounted Infantry Regement (5,000)
205th Artillery Battalion (1,000)

6th Infantry Division (9,000 men)
8th Infantry Regement (4,000)
6th Infantry Regement (4,000)
206th Artillery Battalion (1000)

1st President's Guard Regement: (4,000 men)

Army Airforce (2,000 men)
(Using Japanese and possibly English airplanes... Updated when info becomes available)

Argentine Army Reserve: (250,000 men)

Argentine Naval Force:

Battleships:

3 Satsuma-Class Semi-Drednaught Battleships Buenos Aires, La Plata, Rawson (Stats incomplete) 2 double 12", 2 double 10" / about 28 knots

Crusers:

2 Republica-Class Light Crusers Republica, Tierra del Fuego 3 double 6", 4 13mm AA, 8 21" TT / 4,800 tons / 32 knots
4 Antartica-Class Light Crusers Mendoza, Antartica, Neuquén, Santa Cruz 2 double 6", 8 13mm AA, 6 21" TT / 5,650 tons / 37 knots

Destroyers:

10 or so (More on this later)


are the cruisers based on real ships? they seem woefully underarmed in secondary and tertiary weapons.

Galveston, i know it has been awhile, but i would still like to know what ships i inherited from the Austrian Empire after the war, also please take into account that all the ships bigger than a light cruiser in tonnage should go to the Ottomans.

Also, paratroopers were still sliding down the wings of planes with the Russians through worldwar II on the TB-3 Picture of that (http://www.shift.sk/military/test_page_10/tb3/tb3_1.jpg)

In other news i would like to know what would be the earliest year a vehicle such as the Kfz 222 could be produced, as that is what i am planning on equiping my military with in the years to come.

you got 4 1880 design coastal defense battleships, 20 torpedo boats and 2 light cruisers that survived the war or that weren't scuttled somewhere else. Since then you would have had to acquire mores ships.. because of the fact you have only Split as a port, I would think replacing the obsolete coast defense battleships with a destroyer squadron of 5 ships, along with some more torpedo boats (motor torpedo boats this time), some minesweepers and some coast defense guns would be enough. Plus the 2 light cruisers. You don't actually have all that much coast to defend.

I was trying to base them on real Japanese ships of the era, but I didn't find any secondary weapons on them. Perhapse you could TG me with suggestions for the secondary weaponry. (6 3" guns?)

Mexican Armed Forces 1920


Navy

The navy is being increased slightly in size, mainly concentrating on defensive tactics in order to protect Mexico’s coastlines from attack. A further 1 Destroyer and 1 Cruiser are planned to be built in the next five years.

3 Madero-Class Cruisers
5 Diaz-Class Destroyers
10 Mexico-Class Gunboats

Although I can live with the Army and Guardia Civil, the navy is a little questionable... who are you buying ships from? Mexico cannot build warships larger than a gunboat as it is only tech level 3.5, and has no shipbuilding industry. I assume you would buy them from Italy, Britain or Colombia, but the US isn't selling warships any more.

I was trying to base them on real Japanese ships of the era, but I didn't find any secondary weapons on them. Perhapse you could TG me with suggestions for the secondary weaponry. (6 3" guns?)

that would be about right for a cruiser that size

OOC:

I'm trying to think up of good stats for my Chinese Navy, as the shipyards promised by Britain and Italy should have been completed by 1920.

I want to try to build indigeous Chinese-built Navy, as opposed to relying 100% on foreign naval assets.

a 1000 man organization is either a battalion or a regiment, while a 10,000 men organization would be a division... I would guess the Albanians can field an army about that size in peacetime, but seeing as you are fighting a civil war


Albania at this time has about 900,000 people. And historicaly a 15,000 army was what the country maintained during 30s (which included revolts and disorders)

Government Forces; 10 x infantry brigades (2,500 men each), 3 x 1,000 cavalry regiments (carrying rifles, the lance died in the Great War), misc support troops are another 2,000, plus a few artillery batteries (6 guns, 200 men each), and about 20,000 militia (who only fight if their homes are attacked, and sometimes not even then and always with ineptness)

King Zog and his merry men: 10 x companies (50 - 100 men each) scattered about the country plus some misc spies and terrorists hiding in the urban and village areas

We have ten light artillery pieces because that is what the Italians gave us in May, and there light so they shouldent take 200 men each. True the lance died for the major powers but this is Albania (the polish cavalry were still using swords up till the 1939).

I have no disputes with the militia figures (although the militias are now unoffical) or the Zog rebel numbers (Note: the rebels are primarly located in the Librazhd, Diber, Bulqize and Pogradec districts).

The arab league recently has 61 million Military manpower
with a military availability of 76 million

while it was said that it reached 22 million in the 40s...
with very Bad training, and Wrecked weapons that the USSR gave to the Arabs and blew back in there faces, and killed 15,000 men...

I'm still at a complete loss on how to create Chinese brand of warships.

I might have to copy-paste off someone's warship and scale it down. I know I want to design Chinese battleships, destroyers, cruisers, patrol boats, etc. so that China can build its own "flavor" of stuff instead of being forced to buy foreign warships constantly.

Arab Military Weapons.

Fahd : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/fahd-240.htm
Ayn asakr: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-7.htm
Abadil-100 : http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/missile/ababil.htm
Laith : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/sakr-80.htm
Astros : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/astros.htm
Sakr-30 : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/sakr-30.htm
Sakr-36 : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/sakr-36.htm

al-fahd : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/al-faris.htm

Arab Military Weapons.

Fahd : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/fahd-240.htm
Ayn asakr: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-7.htm
Abadil-100 : http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/missile/ababil.htm
Laith : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/sakr-80.htm
Astros : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/astros.htm
Sakr-30 : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/sakr-30.htm
Sakr-36 : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/sakr-36.htm

al-fahd : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/al-faris.htm

Arab League, unless you formerly apply to enter the RP, please do not post unless you have relevent historical commentary

I'm still at a complete loss on how to create Chinese brand of warships.

I might have to copy-paste off someone's warship and scale it down. I know I want to design Chinese battleships, destroyers, cruisers, patrol boats, etc. so that China can build its own "flavor" of stuff instead of being forced to buy foreign warships constantly.

hmm, I can understand that... look in the links I posted early in this thread for some ideas of what capable warships looked like during each decade of the early twentieth century, and what I and Italy and Britian have been posting. Although Chinese warships may have some cosmetic differences, a 20th Century warship followed pretty specific rules regarding function and layout.

We have ten light artillery pieces because that is what the Italians gave us in May, and there light so they shouldent take 200 men each. True the lance died for the major powers but this is Albania (the polish cavalry were still using swords up till the 1939).

I have no disputes with the militia figures (although the militias are now unoffical) or the Zog rebel numbers (Note: the rebels are primarly located in the Librazhd, Diber, Bulqize and Pogradec districts).

I can live with your changes, although the rugged terrain favors mounted dragoons more than mounted lancers. Try to use proper terminology though. A division is several regiments or battalions, a battalion or regiment is several companies or batteries, and a company or battery is usually 100-200 men.

By the way Turkey... A CORPS is what you are calling a Core .... it consists of 2 divisions, an artillery group, and some support troops in 1920 in most armies. So the size you are listing is correct.

I can live with your changes, although the rugged terrain favors mounted dragoons more than mounted lancers. Try to use proper terminology though. A division is several regiments or battalions, a battalion or regiment is several companies or batteries, and a company or battery is usually 100-200 men.

By the way Turkey... A CORPS is what you are calling a Core .... it consists of 2 divisions, an artillery group, and some support troops in 1920 in most armies. So the size you are listing is correct.

Well a division is in the eye of the beholder, but I've already made changes for simpilicities sake (don't want to confuse people).

OMFG. I just posted a very detailed draft my military and it ate my post. Wow.
Just wow.
Things like this make me want to quit.

FINE! BASIC ARMY:

125,000 infantry etc
280,000 reserves
5,500 army air corps

NAVY:
2 Battlecruisers (Under Construction)
2 Light Carriers (Under Construction)
4 Heavy Cruisers (Under Construction)
20 Destroyers (10 Under Construction)
20 Submarines (Being Purchased)
10 Torpedo Boats

[Colombia needs to find someone to sell us 5 Light Cruisers)
GB did you see my cruisers? What did you think?

If your going to write something very detailed you want to keep around, its best to write it on Word first (some friendly advice, things like that happen to me to).

Chinese Navy (proposed)

Patrol Boat: (Yangtze Class)

Displacement: 500 tons
Speed: 35kt
Complement: 40

Armament:

1. Four 4 inch guns in threes.
2. Two 2 inch anti-aircraft guns in single.
3. Two 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in single.
4. Eight 0.5 inch machine guns in fours.
5. Two 21 inch torpedo tubes in single.

----------------------------------------

Destroyer: (Xiang Class)

Displacement: 5,000 tons
Speed: 32kt
Complement: 400

Armament:

1. Six 7 inch guns in threes.
2. Four 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Four 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Eight 0.5 inch machine guns in fours.
5. Six 21 inch torpedo tubes in threes.

----------------------------------------

Cruiser: (Hong class)

Displacement: 9,800 tons
Speed: 30kt
Complement: 650

Armament:

1. Eight 10 inch guns in pairs.
2. Eight 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Eight 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Eight 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
5. Sixteen 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

Heavy Cruiser: (Sun class)

Displacement: 16,000 tons
Speed: 28kt
Complement: 850

Armament:

1. Twelve 10 inch guns in threes.
2. Twelve 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Twelve 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs
4. Twelve 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
5. Twenty-four 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

Battleship: (Zhuge class)

Displacement: 32,000 tons
Speed: 25kt
Complement: 1,500

Armament:

1. Twelve 16 inch guns in threes.
2. Twenty-four 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Twenty-four 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Twenty-four 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
5. Thirty-six 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

Feedback and suggestions will be much appreciated! :)

I was wondering if I could attract Hermann Julius Oberth, Transylvanian rocket scientist, back to Romania. And we are very interested in Robert Goddard's, American rocket scientist, works and in his belief that rockets can fly to the moon (of course we are more interested in flying smack into fortifications first).

Also intrested in: Johannes Winkler, Max Valier, Willy Ley, Klaus Riedel, Rudolf Nebel, Wernher von Braun, Hermann Oberth, Walter Hohmann, Hermann Noordun and Eugen Sänger...

I was wondering if I could attract Hermann Julius Oberth, Transylvanian rocket scientist, back to Romania. And we are very interested in Robert Goddard's, British rocket scientist, works and in his belief that rockets can fly to the moon (of course we are more interested in flying smack into fortifications first).

Also intrested in: Johannes Winkler, Max Valier, Willy Ley, Klaus Riedel, Rudolf Nebel, Wernher von Braun, Hermann Oberth, Walter Hohmann, Hermann Noordun and Eugen Sänger...

Goddard is an American, not British, and is currently experimenting with multiple stage rockets at this time in history, in the United States.

Any feedback on my Chinese ships? :)

Hmm.... all those guys sound either German or Austrian, and unless they left before 1900, you're going to have to hock up a TON of money, because Educators and scientists are among the most presigeous jobs in the Union.

well shouldn't there be at least some of them who weren't too crazy about sociallisim or civil war?? and since Germany is a communist/sociallist nation and recently had a civil war it couldn't afford to keep all of them, could they?? andl the german army showed interest in rocketry due to limitations caused by the versailles treaty on artillary but that army got defeated in the civil war...

anyway I should be able to get Hermann Oberth, he was born in Transylvania after all...

Chinese Navy (proposed)

Patrol Boat: (Yangtze Class)

Displacement: 500 tons
Speed: 35kt
Complement: 40

Armament:

1. Four 4 inch guns in threes.
2. Two 2 inch anti-aircraft guns in single.
3. Two 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in single.
4. Eight 0.5 inch machine guns in fours.
5. Two 21 inch torpedo tubes in single.

----------------------------------------

Destroyer: (Xiang Class)

Displacement: 5,000 tons
Speed: 32kt
Complement: 400

Armament:

1. Six 7 inch guns in threes.
2. Four 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Four 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Eight 0.5 inch machine guns in fours.
5. Six 21 inch torpedo tubes in threes.

----------------------------------------

Cruiser: (Hong class)

Displacement: 9,800 tons
Speed: 30kt
Complement: 650

Armament:

1. Eight 10 inch guns in pairs.
2. Eight 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Eight 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Eight 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
5. Sixteen 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

Heavy Cruiser: (Sun class)

Displacement: 16,000 tons
Speed: 28kt
Complement: 850

Armament:

1. Twelve 10 inch guns in threes.
2. Twelve 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Twelve 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs
4. Twelve 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
5. Twenty-four 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

Battleship: (Zhuge class)

Displacement: 32,000 tons
Speed: 25kt
Complement: 1,500

Armament:

1. Twelve 16 inch guns in threes.
2. Twenty-four 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Twenty-four 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Twenty-four 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
5. Thirty-six 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

Feedback and suggestions will be much appreciated! :)


too heavy of an armament for that light of a displacement on the battleship

too heavy of an armament for that light of a displacement on the battleship

I'm being led to believe that the USA, Britain, etc. will be building 32,000 ton battleships with 16 inch guns. :confused:

The Washington Treaty says that nobody in the Treaty can build battleships (or any ship) larger than 32,000 tons? If not, then inform me of the correct maximum tonnage limit on an individual battleship (or any ship).

I'm being led to believe that the USA, Britain, etc. will be building 32,000 ton battleships with 16 inch guns. :confused:

The Washington Treaty says that nobody in the Treaty can build battleships (or any ship) larger than 32,000 tons? If not, then inform me of the correct maximum tonnage limit on an individual battleship (or any ship).

the treaty limit is 35,000 tons... what he means though is that unless extremely ill armored, you can't get 12 x 16 inch guns on a 32,000 ton hull.

The US version of your proposed ship, which has been cancelled, was 42,000 tons, but a US ship with 8 x 16 inch guns came in at 33,000 tons.

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/bb46.htm
http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/bb51.htm

also, your torpedo boats should have 3 inch guns, probably 2 single mounts ,
destroyers are limited to 5 inch guns or smaller, probably 4 inch, once again because of weight, your cruisers cannot exceed 10,000 tons or carry guns larger than 8 inch (treaty limitation) and check this site out

It has full information on all major US warships, including displacement, weapons etc, and should give you a feel for what ships can do in this period.

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/

the treaty limit is 35,000 tons... what he means though is that unless extremely ill armored, you can't get 12 x 16 inch guns on a 32,000 ton hull.

The US version of your proposed ship, which has been cancelled, was 42,000 tons, but a US ship with 8 x 16 inch guns came in at 33,000 tons.

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/bb46.htm
http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/bb51.htm

also, your torpedo boats should have 3 inch guns, probably 2 single mounts ,
destroyers are limited to 5 inch guns or smaller, probably 4 inch, once again because of weight, your cruisers cannot exceed 10,000 tons or carry guns larger than 8 inch (treaty limitation) and check this site out

It has full information on all major US warships, including displacement, weapons etc, and should give you a feel for what ships can do in this period.

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/

Okay- so I'll revise my battleship to 35,000 tons and 8x 16 inch guns in dual turrets. I'll also revise my cruiser gun sizes and torpedo boats.

My cruisers are 9,800 tons, while heavy cruisers are 15,000 tons. I believe that heavy cruisers count as battleships under the Washington Treaty?

Chinese Navy (REVISED)

Patrol Boat: (Yangtze Class)

Displacement: 500 tons
Speed: 35kt
Complement: 40

Armament:

1. Two 3 inch guns in single.
2. Two 2 inch anti-aircraft guns in single.
3. Two 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in single.
4. Four 0.5 inch machine guns in pairs.
5. Two 21 inch torpedo tubes in single.

----------------------------------------

Destroyer: (Xiang Class)

Displacement: 5,000 tons
Speed: 32kt
Complement: 400

Armament:

1. Six 5 inch guns in threes.
2. Four 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Four 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Eight 0.5 inch machine guns in fours.
5. Six 21 inch torpedo tubes in threes.

----------------------------------------

Cruiser: (Hong class)

Displacement: 9,800 tons
Speed: 30kt
Complement: 650

Armament:

1. Eight 8 inch guns in pairs.
2. Eight 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Eight 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Eight 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
5. Sixteen 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

Heavy Cruiser: (Sun class)

Displacement: 16,000 tons
Speed: 28kt
Complement: 850

Armament:

1. Twelve 8 inch guns in threes.
2. Twelve 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Twelve 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs
4. Twelve 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
5. Twenty 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

Battleship: (Zhuge class)

Displacement: 35,000 tons
Speed: 25kt
Complement: 1,750

Armament:

1. Eight 16 inch guns in pairs.
2. Sixteen 5 inch secondary guns in pairs.
3. Twenty 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Twenty 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
5. Twenty 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
6. Twenty 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

This is my revised list, as per GB's feedback. I fixed up some stuff on my ships.

The Argentine Fleet, under the command of Admiral Mateo Ortega has set out for the Pacific Ocean to run joint manuvers with the Japanese Navy. A squadron of 3 destroyers will remain. President R. Sanfuentes has been quoted as saying that he "expects no trouble" while the navy is away.

ETA for the craft to reach Japan is 2 months. They are slated to return after 6 months of training.

The Albanian army has launched an offensive against the rebels in the interior.

(OOC: The link to the conflict thread)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=443048

The Bolivian Armed Forces (as of the fall, 1920 (The Boivian army has just came out of a Coup D'etat and lost alot of manpower (Through deaths, crippleing and disfiguring injuries, and mass desertations))):

Land Forces:

3 Regular Infantry Divisions (30,000 men in all, with several outdated artillery brigades in each division)

1 National Reserve Division (10,000 men in all, with several outdated artillery brigades in each division)

1 Cavalry Division (10,000 men in all)

50,000 men total posible men to mobilize.

Navy:

None (No access to the sea)

Airforce:

None

Chinese Navy (REVISED)

Patrol Boat: (Yangtze Class)

Displacement: 500 tons
Speed: 35kt
Complement: 40

Armament:

1. Two 3 inch guns in single.
2. Two 2 inch anti-aircraft guns in single.
3. Two 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in single.
4. Four 0.5 inch machine guns in pairs.
5. Two 21 inch torpedo tubes in single.

----------------------------------------

Destroyer: (Xiang Class)

Displacement: 5,000 tons
Speed: 32kt
Complement: 400

Armament:

1. Six 5 inch guns in threes.
2. Four 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Four 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Eight 0.5 inch machine guns in fours.
5. Six 21 inch torpedo tubes in threes.

----------------------------------------

Cruiser: (Hong class)

Displacement: 9,800 tons
Speed: 30kt
Complement: 650

Armament:

1. Eight 8 inch guns in pairs.
2. Eight 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Eight 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Eight 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
5. Sixteen 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

Heavy Cruiser: (Sun class)

Displacement: 16,000 tons
Speed: 28kt
Complement: 850

Armament:

1. Twelve 8 inch guns in threes.
2. Twelve 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Twelve 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs
4. Twelve 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
5. Twenty 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

Battleship: (Zhuge class)

Displacement: 35,000 tons
Speed: 25kt
Complement: 1,750

Armament:

1. Eight 16 inch guns in pairs.
2. Sixteen 5 inch secondary guns in pairs.
3. Twenty 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Twenty 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
5. Twenty 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
6. Twenty 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

This is my revised list, as per GB's feedback. I fixed up some stuff on my ships.


those will work, just remember, a battleship takes 36 months to build, destroyers and cruisers generally take 24 months, and smaller ships take a year, and that's at a minimum in peacetime. Rushing the job costs nearly twice to three times as much, and is only possible if you are someone like Great Brtiain with a huge amount of practice building warships. As these are your first warships, I would add another 3 months for the small ships, 6 months for the cruisers and destroyers, and 12 months for the battleship (the US started that slowly for example)

those will work, just remember, a battleship takes 36 months to build, destroyers and cruisers generally take 24 months, and smaller ships take a year, and that's at a minimum in peacetime. Rushing the job costs nearly twice to three times as much, and is only possible if you are someone like Great Brtiain with a huge amount of practice building warships. As these are your first warships, I would add another 3 months for the small ships, 6 months for the cruisers and destroyers, and 12 months for the battleship (the US started that slowly for example)

Thanks.

The Italians built me two 50,000 ton shipyards in Shanghai, and the British helped me build a few others with their shipbuilding and shipyard engineers. I figure I have maybe 5 or 6 shipyards in China, each with a 50,000 ton capacity.

Also I may be going to build a few more 50,000 ton capacity shipyards, or build a couple of bigger shipyards, with a 75,000 - 100,000 ton capacity.

Would you figure me reaching the following by 1926-1928...

4 battleships
16 cruisers
32 destroyers
100+ patrol boats

(This is taking into account possible new shipyards in Tienstin and other Chinese coastal cities)


EDIT:

Here's how I figure this can work....

1920:

Shipyard 1 (Italian built one): Battleship @ 35,000 tons. 2 Destroyers @ 5,000 tons each
Shipyard 2 (Italian built one): Battleship @ 35,000 tons. 2 Destroyers @ 5,000 tons each
Shipyard 3 (British built one): 2 Cruisers @ 9,800 tons each. 20 Patrol Boats @ 500 tons each.
Shipyard 4 (British built one): 2 Cruisers @ 9,800 tons each. 20 Patrol Boats @ 500 tons each.
Shipyard 5: (British built one): 8 Destroyers @ 5,000 tons each.

Timetable:

2 Battleships completed by 1924.
4 Cruisers completed by 1923
12 Destroyers completed by 1922.
40 Patrol boats completed by 1921-1922.


After the patrol boats are completed, another query of 40 will be called up, to be completed by 1923 or 1924, along with the two battleships. Once the destroyers are completed, China will build another 12, repeating the "query", and have these ships done by 1924.

By 1924, I should have 2 battleships, 4 cruisers, 24 destroyers, and 80 patrol boats.

Then I could double this number for 1928 (with 1 or 2 new shipyards producing exclusively cruisers)...

4 battleships
16-20 cruisers
36-50 destroyers
100+ patrol boats.


I'm open to tweaks and modifications to my timetables should it prove too unreasonable.

Sharina, check your news thread.

Thanks.

The Italians built me two 50,000 ton shipyards in Shanghai, and the British helped me build a few others with their shipbuilding and shipyard engineers. I figure I have maybe 5 or 6 shipyards in China, each with a 50,000 ton capacity.

Also I may be going to build a few more 50,000 ton capacity shipyards, or build a couple of bigger shipyards, with a 75,000 - 100,000 ton capacity.

Would you figure me reaching the following by 1926-1928...

4 battleships
16 cruisers
32 destroyers
100+ patrol boats

(This is taking into account possible new shipyards in Tienstin and other Chinese coastal cities)

yes, you can build that many. The other factor you will run into is the shortage of trained specialists to run these ships. So figure accidents occur a lot, and if you go into combat as war moderator I will give them a lower efficiency rating than comparable ships manned by a more experienced navy.

I did that during the Great War as well for some of the battles, which is why the Russians for example did better later in the war than they did early in the war (for example)

yes, you can build that many. The other factor you will run into is the shortage of trained specialists to run these ships. So figure accidents occur a lot, and if you go into combat as war moderator I will give them a lower efficiency rating than comparable ships manned by a more experienced navy.

I did that during the Great War as well for some of the battles, which is why the Russians for example did better later in the war than they did early in the war (for example)

Understood.

Keep in mind, my men are being trained by British Naval officers and German officers, as per agreed deals in 1908 or so. I could engage in training excerises to increase my crew experience levels. Would that work?

so, do I get rocket scientists or not?? and how much is going to cost if I do??

Although I can live with the Army and Guardia Civil, the navy is a little questionable... who are you buying ships from? Mexico cannot build warships larger than a gunboat as it is only tech level 3.5, and has no shipbuilding industry. I assume you would buy them from Italy, Britain or Colombia, but the US isn't selling warships any more.

all my cruisers from around 1880, the other bigger ships are also at least 25 years old.

so, do I get rocket scientists or not?? and how much is going to cost if I do??

no to the rocket scientists... at this point, there aren't any except for a very few German, Russian and American ones who are busy inventing the science of it

Chinese-Built Airship

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9862/oldplane25ql.png

C-9 Yang

General Dimensions:

Wingspan: 52 ft
Length: 27 ft
Weight: 3,600 lbs fully loaded

Engine: 350-hp six-cylinder engine
Top Speed: 100 mph
Ceiling: 5,000 ft.

Weapons:

1. Two synchronized, forward-firing machine guns

2. One machine gun in the rear cockpit to engage rear targets

3. Light bomb racks under the fuselage and wings for bombs weighing between 10 - 50 pounds each.

Chinese-Built Airship

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9862/oldplane25ql.png

C-9 Yang

General Dimensions:

Wingspan: 52 ft
Length: 27 ft
Weight: 3,600 lbs fully loaded

Engine: 350-hp six-cylinder engine
Top Speed: 128 mph
Ceiling: 20,000 ft.

Weapons:

1. Two synchronized, forward-firing machine guns

2. One machine gun in the rear cockpit to engage rear targets

3. Light bomb racks under the fuselage and wings for bombs weighing between 10 - 50 pounds each.

Is yours a bi-plane or monoplane...because the french plane is a bi-plane(if i am getting all this right...probably not so don't yell at me lol)

Chinese-Built Airship

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9862/oldplane25ql.png

C-9 Yang

General Dimensions:

Wingspan: 52 ft
Length: 27 ft
Weight: 3,600 lbs fully loaded

Engine: 350-hp six-cylinder engine
Top Speed: 128 mph
Ceiling: 20,000 ft.

Weapons:

1. Two synchronized, forward-firing machine guns

2. One machine gun in the rear cockpit to engage rear targets

3. Light bomb racks under the fuselage and wings for bombs weighing between 10 - 50 pounds each.

drop the maximum ceiling to about 5,000 feet and I can live with it, and drop speed to about 100 mph.

I assume this is based off of the French biplanes I recently gave you?

Is yours a bi-plane or monoplane...because the french plane is a bi-plane(if i am getting all this right...probably not so don't yell at me lol)

No worries. As I've stated in the OOC thread, I suck royally at designing custom military stuff- not just for this Earth, but for NS in general (MT, Post-MT, and FT). But I am learning.

China has made some modifications, after studying a few airplane and zeppelin designs. China decided to try a monoplane design and see how it fares.

Keep in mind, China is more modernized in this alternate history, so it'd be able to experiment more with plane designs than it did in RL history.

drop the maximum ceiling to about 5,000 feet and I can live with it, and drop speed to about 100 mph.

Will do. I appreciate your feedback on the designs, as I'm trying to learn how to make reasonable equipment without going overboard. Thanks once again for your patience. :)

I assume this is based off of the French biplanes I recently gave you?

Yeah- your plane gave China a few ideas on plane design, along with concepts from Zeppelins and other European aircraft. Chinese engineers are more capable of experimentation and design processes in this alternate history than they were in RL history.

Chinese Navy

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/2928/chinapatrolboat9lc.png

Patrol Boat: (Yangtze Class)

Displacement: 500 tons
Speed: 35kt
Complement: 40

Armament:

1. Two 3 inch guns in single.
2. Two 2 inch anti-aircraft guns in single.
3. Two 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in single.
4. Four 0.5 inch machine guns in pairs.
5. Two 21 inch torpedo tubes in single.

----------------------------------------

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2717/chinadestroyer3lp.png

Destroyer: (Xiang Class)

Displacement: 5,500 tons
Speed: 32kt
Complement: 400

Armament:

1. Eight 5 inch guns in pairs.
2. Four 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Four 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Eight 0.5 inch machine guns in fours.
5. Six 21 inch torpedo tubes in threes.

----------------------------------------

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/5876/chinacruiser1dx.png

Cruiser: (Hong class)

Displacement: 9,800 tons
Speed: 30kt
Complement: 650

Armament:

1. Eight 8 inch guns in pairs.
2. Eight 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Eight 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Eight 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
5. Sixteen 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7769/chinaheavycruiser0ws.png

Heavy Cruiser: (Sun class)

Displacement: 16,000 tons
Speed: 28kt
Complement: 850

Armament:

1. Twelve 8 inch guns in threes.
2. Twelve 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
3. Twelve 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs
4. Twelve 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
5. Twenty 21 inch torpedo tubes.

----------------------------------------

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/7950/chinabattleship6nc.png

Battleship: (Zhuge class)

Displacement: 35,000 tons
Speed: 25kt
Complement: 1,750

Armament:

1. Eight 16 inch guns in pairs.
2. Sixteen 5 inch secondary guns in pairs.
3. Twenty 4 inch anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
4. Twenty 2pdr anti-aircraft guns in pairs.
5. Twenty 0.5 machine guns in pairs.
6. Twenty 21 inch torpedo tubes.

-----------------------------------------
OOC:

I did some minor tweaking to my Destroyer, downgrading from triple barrel turrets to dual barrel turrets. Not only that, but I finally found decent pictures for my Navy. :)

Now all I need is to construct / design / get pictures for Ground Army, like armored cars, infantry rifles, infantry backpacks, etc.

no to the rocket scientists... at this point, there aren't any except for a very few German, Russian and American ones who are busy inventing the science of it

Rats! *scratches rockets from "things to build" clipboard* Okay how about submarines?? I wonder who to approach for submarine devolopment??

Oh and his majesty is impressed by Goddard's work and presents him with a grant...

Rats! *scratches rockets from "things to build" clipboard* Okay how about submarines?? I wonder who to approach for submarine devolopment??

Oh and his majesty is impressed by Goddard's work and presents him with a grant...

The first RL submersable used in combat was invented by the Americans for the American Revolutionary war, it was essentially a tub with a stick and a bomb at one end, it was lost of course and i don't believe it actually destroyed anything, so submersible technology is on it's way, if not already here, of course i have no authority over these things.

The first RL submersable used in combat was invented by the Americans for the American Revolutionary war, it was essentially a tub with a stick and a bomb at one end, it was lost of course and i don't believe it actually destroyed anything, so submersible technology is on it's way, of course i have no authority over these things.

ooc
first submarine, piloted by an American Sergeant, actually survived the mission, but the hand drill couldn't poke a hole through the copper plating at the bottom of the British warship he was attempting to attack, and he had to give up the mission. The first successful attack was by the CSS Hunley during the American Civil War, and the Rebel submarine actually sank a Yankee sloop of war, but it flooded itself and sank, drowning its third crew (2 other crews, including the inventor of the vessel died during testing)

in this timeline, during the 1906-08 Great War, German intervention into the war was triggered when an Italian submarine torpedoed and sank a German armored cruiser, thinking it was a Russian armored cruiser. The short range of boats in 1906-08 prevented them from doing much else however.

The Washington Naval Treaty, signed in 1920 (last year in this timeline) has limited naval powers to 100 submarines or less.

Mexican Navy 1921

2 x Destroyer

MNS Aztec + Conquistador

Displacement: 742 tons
Length: 293 ft
Beam: 26 ft
Speed: 29.5 knots
Complement: 86 officers and enlisted
Armament: 5 3-inch guns, 6 18-inch torpedo tubes

4 x Torpedo Boat

MNS: Itzcoatl + Moctezuma + Tizoc + Acamapichtli + Axayacatl

Length: 75 ft
Beam: 21 ft
Speed: 35 knots
Complement: 35 officers and enlisted
Armament: 2 18-inch torpedo tubes, 2 machine guns

12 x Gunboat

MNS: Vera Cruz + Yucatan + Panuco + Yaqui + Balsas + Usumacinta + Rio Grande + Sonora + Morelos + Querétaro + Oaxaca + Tabasco

Displacement: 400 tons
Length: 150 ft
Beam: 25 ft
Speed: 12.5 knots
Complement: 50 officers and enlisted
Armament: 4 2.5-inch guns

The navy is split into two fleets, a Caribbean fleet and a Pacific fleet. Both fleets consist of 1 cruiser, 2 torpedo boats and 6 gunboats.

Japan is officially calling up 100,000 reserves to increase the size of the active army, as well as increasing the garrison in Port Arthur and Manchuria by 75,000 men.

Mexico has announced the formation of two more cavalry divisions, totalling 10,000 men, these will be used to strengthen the garrisons on Mexicos Northern border. As well as this we are expecting some Kommandos shortly, these will be used to further train our army.

The US tells South Africa that sending mercenaries to Mexico would be viewed by the US as a matter of grave concern.

The United States government informs the Mexican government that in light of recent actions by the Mexican government that threaten the peace of the Americas, the US is bringing to a halt the training of Mexican flight cadets in San Antonio. The US will also immediately halts the sale of spare parts of US military equipment purchased by Mexico.

Further actions of a unfriendly nature by Mexico will cause the US Government to quietly tells the American oil companies doing exploration work and providing contract services to Pemex, that it would be to their disadvantage to continue doing so.

Finally, to make that point clear, the US Army schedules a large manuever involving 2 corps sized formations, at Fort Bliss (and stretching into New Mexico... its a really, really big base).

However, the US government reminds Mexico that relations have been cordial since the end of the Mexican Revolution in 1866, and reminds the Mexican government that the arrival of an American army on the border of Mexico and other pressure are the principal reasons the French withdrew their support to Maximilian, and that a peaceful Mexico has nothing to fear from the United States, and much to gain.

ooc
by the way, 10,000 men is a division, a regiment is about 1000 - 3000 men

Mexico wishes to make it clear that we do not want war with the USA. Furthermore from now on we will be sure to conform to the agreements set out by the Pan American treaty (can i have a link for this i wasnt around when it was created). Mexico would also like to inform the USA that the Kommandos are being sent to Mexico for the sole purpose of training the Mexican army, which, with the world full of tension, we feel is totally acceptable.

Furthermore we wish to make it crystal clear to the Ecaudorian government that although we have stood down this time, it does not improve the relationship between our two nations. Mexico does not wish harm upon anyone who does not endanger Mexican interests.

As well as this the Mexican army is preparing to demobilise the 100,000 reservists called up when the nation feared an invasion. However the Gaurdia Rurale will be kept at double strength.

In conclusion, we remember the help the USA has given Mexico in the past, and we are eternally gratefull for it.

ooc: i hav no idea why i keep getting the division thing wrong

South Africa wishes to make it clear to the United States that the Union government exerts no control over where the mercenaries go or who they work for, since they are a private organization (with reason, if they broke a law or international treaty they'd be detained by authorities and disarmed). The mercenaries in Mexico, having done no such thing, but rather having been hired solely to train the Mexican Army, will not be recalled.

Prime Minister Smuts assures the United States that if the mercenaries take action in a manner that the United States or Mexico find unnacceptable (with the exception of fighting in self-defense), their leadership in the Union will be detained and their assets frozen.

OOC: On another note, is South Africa at a point where I can build shipyards of my own, or must I still rely on the purchase of foreign ships? I know I can't yet make tanks or planes, since I've got no automotive industry to speak of, but I wasn't sure about ships.

Palestine is embarking on a project to fortify it's coast line, as the treaty that they have signed with the Ottoman Empire precludes attack form any other direction. Major ports and areas of high ground on the coast will have large casements with large caliber guns (12"-16") emplaced in order to ensure security. Smaller watchposts and bunkers will be built on beaches deemed to be decent landing areas.

OOC: Wowie, ANOTHER one? The last one was ages ago, but it was fun.

Pity it seems to be too late for me to join, though...

Im pretty sure there are still some countries left

it's really not too late, go here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=424002&page=1) for the list of taken nations, pick an untaken one (perferibly in Africa) and then TG Hrstrovokia with your claim.

There should be. Some of the Western European Countries seem to have dropped off the map, and I think there are still some countries left in south America.

Italy's army and navy is pretty much going to be historical, though the army may face modest budget increases in future years. The Italian intelligence services, however, have been targetted for some expansion, and universities now offer Russian, German, and Spanish culture and language classes. The idea is that this will produce a larger pool of analysts and hum-int operatives. Research is going into communications security and cracking communications security.

The main focus of the intelligence services will be Russia and Germany, with a lesser focus on Spain.

OOC: Following increased tensions concerning China, Russia, Germany and Brazil amongst others. The British parliament has followed it's usual policy of overeaction and has instigated the following troop movements:

IC: Britain steps up garrisons in Afghanistan (though the country is fairly unstable anyway) and Pakistan on the Russian borders. Local tribesmen are recruited into militia forces and equipped with old rifles no longer in use by the army (though still of the standard .303 calibre). Aircraft, especially the new SE5 are brought from Britain to assist the defence.

A similiar process is repeated in India, Nepal, Tibet and Burma where there is a border with China. At Hong Kong Indian troops are rushed to the garrisons to provide a limited defence whilst British units are brought from the UK. In the Pacific islands marines are landed from the Navy to provide a stronger garrison there.

The Navy increases patrols in the Indian and Pacific Oceans and also the extreme North Atlantic. Meditteranean patrols are also increased as are the garrisons at Malta, Gibralter and Egypt. British merchant vessels increasingly recieve an escort in the affected areas.

The dominions (Canada, Australia, South Africa) are called upon to increase defences in their homelands and territories and also to pledge as many troops as they can to the defence of the Empire. Canada (the only NPC dominion) has pledged 3 divisions of troops and their equipment and they are now being used to reinforce the Indian Subcontinent.

Local militias are readied throughout the Empire and troops from the West Coast African colonies are transported to the colony of British Guiana. Troops from East Africa are rushed to help protect the Indian subcontinent.

Production of war arms in Britain has increased particularly of rifles and artillery and these items are transported as quickly as possible to the colonies to arm the militias. The recruitment campaign in Britain is speeded up and training is increased with the introduction of reservists as instructors. The RFC increases it's training programs and tries to recruit as many potential pilots as possible.

ooc
to give everyone a feel for what aircraft can do and what they cost in 1920-21. Check out the links, they provide pictures, performance information and links to other places
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/ac/w1.htm
http://www.theaerodrome.com/aircraft/

generally valuable is the USAF Museum, and this website on World War I aircraft

IC
American aircraft 1921

Army Air Service
Training, Light Bombing, Observation: 20 squadrons (12 training, 8 operational, 1100 aircraft ) JN4 Jenny
Speed 90 MPH, range 75 miles, cost $5,600 crew 2, armament: 2 machine guns (1 front, 1 observer), 200 pounds bombs

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/ey2b.htm

Observation and Bombing: 6 Squadrons (6 operational, 150 aircraft)
100 J1 Standard (4 squadrons) Speed 72 MPH, range 235 miles, cost $6,000, crew 2, armament 2 machine guns, 300 pounds bombs

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/ey10.htm

40 Martin MB2 (2 squadrons) speed 99 mph, range 558 miles, cost $15,000 crew 4, armament 4 machine guns, 3000 pounds bombs,

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/ac/pg000026.htm

Scouting and Advanced training: 14 squadrons (6 training, 8 operational
150 Thomas Morse S4C (6 training squadrons) speed 95 MPH, range 250 miles, cost $6500, crew 1, armament 1 machine gun

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/ey4a.htm

200 Packard LePere LUSAC Sparrows (8 squadrons) speed 136 cruise 118 range 320 miles, crew 2, 4 machine guns (2 front, 2 rear),

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/ey9.htm

Balloons and Blimps
Observation balloons
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/ey5a.htm

experimental aircraft
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/ey3a.htm


Notable achievements to date by Air Service and Navy
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/postwwi/rtr.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/postwwi/tret.htm
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/postwwi/acd.htm
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/postwwi/asr.htm
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/postwwi/faf.htm
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/postwwi/maf.htm

US Navy Aviation
Navy uses smaller squadrons

Training
100 aircraft (8 squadrons) JN4 Jennys including 1 squadron float planes


Observation and advanced training
200 aircraft (8 training squadrons, 16 operational squadrons)
Curtis MF 1 Flying boats speed 72 MPH, range 170 miles, crew 2, 1 machine gun, 250 pounds bombs, operational squadrons are assigned to battleships, carriers, and seaplane tenders

Observation and long range scouting
212 aircraft (17 operational squadrons)
12 (1 squadron) NC Long Range flying boats , speed 90 mph, range 1,400 miles, crew 6, 4 machine guns, 1,000 pounds bombs

100 (8 squadrons) HSL2 Flying boats, speed 90 mph, range 550 miles, crew 2, 1 machine gun, 2 depth charges or 500 pounds of bombs

100 (8 squadrons) HS16 Flying boats, speed 100 mph, range 600 miles, crew 4, 4 machines guns, 4 depth charges or 1000 pounds of bombs

Lighter than air squadrons
80 D class Blimps (16 squadrons), twin engined Blimps, speed 50 MPH, range 1000 miles, crew 4, 1 machine gun, 4 depth charges or 1000 pounds of bombs.

Carrier Scout and Bombing aircraft
160 Packard La Pere (8 squadrons), 4 for each carrier

ooc
incidently, Hungary can build anything that Austria Hungary could build, and China can base his designs on anything but his aircraft cost twice as much, and should have Italian, German or Austrian influence.

Japan will have their own aircraft, and should base their designs on British and France aircraft (as they did historically).

No one else has an aviation industry. Alas, some of the links don't work in the World War I page, but do a search and you might find the aircraft somewhere. Sikorsky is happily living in Russia making a good living.. unless the political climate grows oppressive

He designed the first four engined bomber in 1913 for example... check out this site
http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/indexlnk.html

and these aircraft, they should be in general service for the Russians. Both are excellent, although the Russians should be using German attack and light bombing and fast scout (future fighters) aircraft.

http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/s-22.html
http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/s-16.html


also note
If your nation signed the Washington Naval Treaty, as War Moderator I am assuming you are living up to the guidelines and have scrapped or cancelled excess ships. Germany, I still need to know if you are going for a battlefleet to take on the British and French in the North Sea, or a more general purpose commerce raiding fleet so I can tell you what ships you have.

[
OOC: On another note, is South Africa at a point where I can build shipyards of my own, or must I still rely on the purchase of foreign ships? I know I can't yet make tanks or planes, since I've got no automotive industry to speak of, but I wasn't sure about ships.

its a lot cheaper for you to buy British, so the Exchequer would like to keep it that way if possible

its a lot cheaper for you to buy British, so the Exchequer would like to keep it that way if possible

Ah. Thanks.

Royal South African Army

Permanent Force (standing army, career soldiers)
1st Regiment [Durban Light Infantry]
2nd Regiment [Johannesburg Rifles]
3rd Regiment [Witwatersrand Rifles]
4th Regiment [Cape Town Rifles]
5th Regiment [Natal Native Regiment]
Artillery Regiment [Transvaal Horse Artillery]
Artillery Regiment [Vrystaatse Artillery]


Active Citizen Force [ACF] (temporary conscripts) White and Indian males aged 17-25 drafted by lots.

Royal South African Naval Service

Current assets:

Four Light Cruisers:
HMSAS Kruger
HMSAS Voortrekker
HMSAS Rorke
HMSAS Bloemfontein
Ten Destroyers:
HMSAS Drakensberg
HMSAS Isandlwana
HMSAS Hendrik Mentz
HMSAS Pretorius
HMSAS Potchefstroom
HMSAS Johannesburg
HMSAS Pietersburg
HMSAS Messina
HMSAS Riebeeck
HMSAS Majuba
Miscellanious:
HMSAS Protea, hydrographic survey vessel
HMSAS Sonneblom, minesweeping trawler
HMSAS Immortelle, minesweeping trawler
The South African Naval Service also maintains fifteen gunboats for actions in littoral waters in Africa.

Royal South African Air Reserve

Current Assets:
40 pilots training in Britain. These pilots will provide the core training cadre of airmen to train new pilots for the Air Reserve.

Notes:
The Transvaal Horse Artillery uses primarily light guns, such as 75mm's, 3- and 6-inchers, and 82mm mortars (if those have been invented yet, I'm not sure). The Vrystaatse Artillery uses heavier guns, like those found in European and American armies. It serves in detached sections, with two to three batteries per infantry regiment.

The South African navy has no large warships, having neither the need nor the personnel to maintain them (although the armed forces are more integrated than mainstream society, the Navy is still almost all white).

The RSAAR has no planes, so it's an air unit in name only. Once South Africa buys some planes from Britain or America, or manages to produce its own, the pilots will train other pilots for the Air Force.

I am going to assume since since we had 2 years of trench warfare during the Great War, we should have hand grenades, light, medium and heavy mortars, and light and heavy machine guns per historical 1921. Tanks are still experimental, and at best should have the capabilities they had in 1916-18, while armored cars can be what they were historically at this time. Nearly all artillery is horse drawn, except for a few American and British units, as those two armies are small enough and their societies are mechanized enough where towed artillery (truck) is a reasonable option. Even then only a few experimental units would have it.

Tanks would be organized into battalions (or single battalion regiments) and brigades, and the combined arms idea is being kicked around on paper, but has not been attempted.

So no armored divisions or corps.

Armored cars replacing horses in horse cavalry regiments, and an experimental cavalry unit with truck mounted infantry (dragoons basically), towed artillery and armored cars is a reasonable assumption, but tanks are simply too slow to be assigned to units like this yet.

Radios are cumbersome and require a dedicated vehicle to haul around, so tactical communications are extremely limited. Another war at this point will end up as a trench war in no time at all, although some advances in tactics have been made (the first rank military powers discarded close formation attacks for one thing)

So the Blitzkreig isn't really possible unless you totally outnumber and outmatch your opponent, but World War II style advances measured in miles per day is possible, in the right circumstances.

Is the American Martin MB2 available for export?

And also, how can I start an aircraft industry, then?

The US Army has monopolized Martin MB2 production, while the Navy has pretty much monopolized Curtis float plane and flying boat production. At least for 1921-22. However, new aircraft are already being developed.

I am going to assume since since we had 2 years of trench warfare during the Great War, we should have hand grenades, light, medium and heavy mortars, and light and heavy machine guns per historical 1921. Tanks are still experimental, and at best should have the capabilities they had in 1916-18, while armored cars can be what they were historically at this time. Nearly all artillery is horse drawn, except for a few American and British units, as those two armies are small enough and their societies are mechanized enough where towed artillery (truck) is a reasonable option. Even then only a few experimental units would have it.

Tanks would be organized into battalions (or single battalion regiments) and brigades, and the combined arms idea is being kicked around on paper, but has not been attempted.

So no armored divisions or corps.

Armored cars replacing horses in horse cavalry regiments, and an experimental cavalry unit with truck mounted infantry (dragoons basically), towed artillery and armored cars is a reasonable assumption, but tanks are simply too slow to be assigned to units like this yet.

Radios are cumbersome and require a dedicated vehicle to haul around, so tactical communications are extremely limited. Another war at this point will end up as a trench war in no time at all, although some advances in tactics have been made (the first rank military powers discarded close formation attacks for one thing)

So the Blitzkreig isn't really possible unless you totally outnumber and outmatch your opponent, but World War II style advances measured in miles per day is possible, in the right circumstances.

Higgins Boat for Amphibious Assault?


Also Can my government put out a contract for various Airplane Manufactures (Japanese and American) To produce an Aircraft strong enough to carry 12-15 men with Paratrooper Combat loads, 300 miles(200 would work as well) about 120mph at 3000-4000 feet? Granted I know that an aircraft like that does not exist. But My government is very interested in encouraging development.


Furthermore even though the Aircraft does not exist, Japanese troops have been doing Static line jumps from Small Dirigibles and Tethered Balloons in the experimental 1st Airborne Battalion(600 men)

Higgins Boat for Amphibious Assault?


Also Can my government put out a contract for various Airplane Manufactures (Japanese and American) To produce an Aircraft strong enough to carry 12-15 men with Paratrooper Combat loads, 300 miles(200 would work as well) about 120mph at 3000-4000 feet? Granted I know that an aircraft like that does not exist. But My government is very interested in encouraging development.


Furthermore even though the Aircraft does not exist, Japanese troops have been doing Static line jumps from Small Dirigibles and Tethered Balloons in the experimental 1st Airborne Battalion(600 men)

The Japanese developed their own landing craft independently... read up on that and you will find they show up by the early 1930s. As far as transport aircraft goes, about 1931 at the earliest, possibly late 20s, I will have read when the Ford Trimotor and its overseas equivilants show up, as well as the Curtis Condor and some of the bigger flying boats.

The Japanese developed their own landing craft independently... read up on that and you will find they show up by the early 1930s. As far as transport aircraft goes, about 1931 at the earliest, possibly late 20s, I will have read when the Ford Trimotor and its overseas equivilants show up, as well as the Curtis Condor and some of the bigger flying boats.


Is there anyway to push the development of Transport Aircraft to about 1925ish, I'm really willing to pour in resources on this one. My nation is all islands and a good airtransport would benefit them immensly.

I'm pretty sure there is no special technology to go into the type of amphibous boat I'm after.

I need a Flat armored Bow, that can be lowered. with one Heavy Machinegun turret up front possibly, the vessel needs to be shallow drafted to run up on the beach with an armored bridge for the driver and one more Machine gun back there to put more fire on the beach. It doesn't need to be a large vessel.

It's not a technologically advanced design, just a little unorthadox.

All Japanese Semi-Dreadnoughts that hadn't been sold pre- Washington Treaty have been turned into gunnery targets.

The Kongo Has Begun Being converted into an Aircraft Carrier

and as the New Nagato's come into being (4 being built by 1922, (I started before the treaty)) The Kongo Class will be Converted into Carriers until the Maximum Tonnage is reached for Aircraft Carriers and then From then on they will be scrapped if over both limits.

The French have beung developing thier own seaplane, essentially an obsever, fighter, or bomber plane equipped with floats. They're working on making larger transport aircraft as well as well as larger seaplanes.

The French have beung developing thier own seaplane, essentially an obsever, fighter, or bomber plane equipped with floats. They're working on making larger transport aircraft as well as well as larger seaplanes.

Well if you can meet my standard, let me know, I'd be very interested in purchasing them

The Japanese Establish An Airbase on Hainan Dao with less than 50 aircraft but also a Destroyer and Submarine Base and a Garison of 17,000 Naval Infantry

Russian Navy 1921

Having suffered very heavy losses during the Great War, the Navy was about to be rebuilt pretty much from scratch when the Civil War interrupted things. Since then the Russians have conducted a thorough ship building effort. A problem the Russians have though is geography. The Japanese can block at will their access to the Pacific, th British control access to the Atlantic via the North Sea and G-I-UK gap, and the Turks control access to the Mediterranean. Thus the Black Sea fleet is designed to ensure no one comes through the Dardenelles and threatens the Russian Black Sea Coast, while Pacific Fleet is to defend Vladivostok and the Baltic Fleet is designed to work on conjuction with the German fleet to break out into the Atlantic and disrupt trade or blockade France.

Battleships and Battle cruisers
Black Sea
3 Nikoleyev class battleships (Nikoleyev, Paris Commune, Volya), 24,000 tons, 21 knots, 12 x 12 inch guns, 12 x 4.7 inch guns, (speed sacrificed for more armor) short ranged, but good protection, speed, and good firepower for its size

Pacific
4 Gangut class battleships (Gangut, Petropavlovsk, Poltava, Sevastapol), 24,000 tons, 23 knots, 12 x 12 inch, 12 x 4.7 inch (modified from historic Russian ships) and given more and better armor. Remain coal powered however, but that is logistically useful due to the distance this fleet is from the rest of Russia.


Baltic
3 Markarov class battle cruisers (Markarov, Stark, Rozhdestvenski) 32,000 tons, 28 knots, 8 x 15 inch, 12 x 4.7 inch . Basically copies of the German battle cruisers but with better range (can reach North America from the Baltic Sea) as they are larger.

Cruisers
Baltic
12 Diana class light cruisers (Diana, Rurik, Pallada, Aurore, Variag, Askold, Boyarin, Novik) 6,000 tons, 30 knots, 8 x 6 inch, 8 x 4.7 inch,

excellent range, speed and firepower, limited protection, ideal for commerce raiding as have range to reach North America or the Caribbean or even Brazil and back without refueling

10 Ognevoy class light cruisers (Ognevoy, Slavny, Stroyny, Smyshleny, Smely, Sovremenny, Bezuprechnyy, Bezboyaznenny, Besstrashnyy, Bezuderzhannyy) 5,500 tons, 28 knots, 8 x 6 inch, 6 x 3 inch, 6 torpedo tubes,

predecessar to the Diana class, and designed for the same mission

Pacific
usually a pair of Diana class cruisers are on station or conducting show of the flag missions throughout the Pacific.

Black Sea
6 Provorny class light cruisers (Provorny, Obraztsovy, Odarenny, Otvazhny, Steregushchy, Reshitelny) 4,500 tons, 30 knots, 8 x 4.7 inch, 8 x torpedo tubes, designed as destroyer leaders, short ranged, but fast, good protection and firepower.

Destroyers
Pacific – 2 Squadrons (10 destroyers)
Black Sea – 6 squadrons (30 destroyers)
Baltic Sea – 4 squadrons (20 destroyers)

Submarines
Using German designs
Baltic – 20 boats
Black Sea –10 boats
Northern Fleet – 20 boats
Pacific – 20 boats

The Russian Navy also operates gunboats on all of the principal lakes and rivers of the Russian Empire, and each fleet has about 20 other ships of various types (minesweepers, tugs etc).. The Russian Navy has no oilers and is designed to operate from bases for specific duration missions except for the commerce raiders. A number of transports are also available but the Russian Fleet does not have a dedicated Marine Corps.

Only some nations do, the Italians, French, British, American and Japanese have either marines or sailors specifically trained to assault beaches and conduct raids.

In Spain, Basques begin smuggling arms across the border from their kin in France. Always conservative, they are uncomfortable with the increasingly socialist movement of the Spanish government.

They aren't alone. Traditionally and historically very conservative, many Spaniards are deeply troubled by the direction the Spanish government has taken, especially the many devout Catholics. The Army officer corps is also concerned, and so are the old noble families and the Church.

Some of them begin contacting friends in France to discuss possibilities.....

The German Army begins building a large Naval Base on the Azores. Repair stations are being contructed and underground bunkers are being established to hold nearly 20,000 soldiers. However, nearly 70,000 soldiers could be stationed.

Also, a commercial Zeppelin station has been established for refulling to get to America.

The Ottoman Arm forces
As of 1921 to early 1923

The Ottoman Army- A Single Army Crops can be at 10,000 troops at its lowest and 20,000 troop at max.
Army Core as of 1921, the standing army
300,000 troops (100 percent fully trained)
Number of Army corps: 50 Army corps at the moment.
400,000 Reservist corps (only call to duty in times of war, well trained)

Deployments of the Ottoman Army Corps

10 Army Corps Station in Egypt
10 Army Corps Station in Iran
8 Army Corps Station in Arabia
8 Army Corps Station in Syria/Lebanon
6 Army Corps Station in Iraq
8 Army Corps Station in Asia Minor

Ottoman Marine Corps-100,000 troops(well trained)
Ten Divisions-10,000 each

Five Divisions Station in Asia Minor
Five Divisions Station in Egypt

Ottoman Air Core
120 Scout Planes

The Navy as of 1921-1923

Battleships

1 Dreadnought class battleships (built by the British, by 1911)

1“Training Ship” Dreadnought class battleships (built by the British, by 1911)

1 CAIO DUILIO CLASS Battleship(build by the Italians in 1922)

2 Conti di Cavour Battlecruiser( build by the Italians in 1922)


Cruisers
4 Hawkins Class Heavy Cruisers(Build by the British, 1921)

6 Cruisers (build by the Germans, by 1915)


Light Cruisers

8 Light Cruisers (build by the Germans, by 1915)

6 Town Class Light Cruisers (Build by the British, 1922)

10 Danae Class Light Cruisers (Build by the British, 1922)

Destroyers
8 Destoryers(build by the Germans, by 1915)

20 W Class Destroyers(Build by the British in 1921)

20 Destoryers(Build by the Italians in 1922)

Torpedo Boats
30 Torpedo Boats (build by the Germans, by 1915)

Submarines
20 U-boats(made by the Germans in 1921.)

The French have beung developing thier own seaplane, essentially an obsever, fighter, or bomber plane equipped with floats. They're working on making larger transport aircraft as well as well as larger seaplanes.

This is very interesting, is it a secret project or can the Romania invest in it(in exchange for some aircraft when it is finished)??

watch this space for the state of the Norwegian military

ooc: ok folks, its what youve all been waiting for :p

ic:

Norwegian Army 1920s

3 divisions with 5,000 men each

Hakaan VII division: based in Oslo
1st infantry regiment
2nd infantry regiment
3rd infantry regiment
1st cavalry regiment
1st artillery regiment

Oscar II division: based in Trondheim
4th infantry regiment
5th infantry regiment
6th infantry regiment
2nd cavalry regiment
2nd artillery regiment

Charles IV division: based in Bergen
7th infantry regiment
8th infantry regiment
9th infantry regiment
3rd cavalry regiment
3rd artillery regiment

Norwegian Navy 1920s

2 Coastal Defence Cruisers
3 Destroyer Escorts
8 Minelayers
5 Minesweepers
5 Submarines
12 Torpedoboats

Norwegian Navy 1920s

2 Coastal Defence Cruisers
3 Destroyer Escorts
8 Minelayers
5 Minesweepers
5 Submarines
12 Torpedoboats

that is acceptable, and you probably have 9- 12 brigades of mixed reservists and regulars for home defense, plus some interesting coast defense forts.

and here is a report on those forts, these are what i have guarding Oslo:

Oslofjord festning

Håøy fort
Command post
2 x 21cm gun
2 x 12cm gun
4 x 6.5cm gun
6 x AA mg
90 men, 15 men infantry

Måkerøy fort
2 x 30.5cm howitzers
3 x AA mg (not manned)
79 men

Bolærne fort
3 x 15cm gun
4 x 12cm gun
6 x AA mg
148 men, 20 men infantry

Rauøy fort
2 x 15cm gun
2 x 15cm gun
2 x 6.5cm gun
9 x AA mg
210 men, 15 men infantry

Infantry protection:
2 x local defence company

and here is a report on those forts, these are what i have guarding Oslo: SNIP

At least one of those forts has torpedo launchers which it used historically to sink a German cruiser (the Blucher) in World War II

wow a fort with a torpedo launcher! I wonder who invented that, did its job though i suppose :)

edit: here it is:

"Torpedo batteries

Oscarsborg outside Oslo, and Bergen each had a static torpedo battery. The one at Bergen was unmanned at the 9th of April, but the one at Oscarsborg was responsible for sinking the heavy cruiser Blücher. The batteries had three tubes for 45cm torpedoes each.

The 45cm torpedoes were of Norwegian design and manufacture."

ooc: cooooooooooooooooool :D

ic: another report on the (terrible) state of my armed forces


The equipment of the army is fairly standard. The personal weapon is a bolt-action rifle. Each team (squad) has a light machine gun, and the heavy company of the battalion had heavy machine guns. There are also mortars in the battalion. The brigade had a small artillery battalion. The infantry moved by foot, the artillery were horse drawn and the supply train were partly horse drawn and partly motorized. For close fighting however we have no hand grenades and no sub machine guns. There are no anti tank weapons of any kind. The mortars are pitifully few, with only two for a battalion. The only anti aircraft weapon available for the field units are machine guns. The artillery is old and of small calibre. Most soldiers have only an 84 daylong basic training course, but some even less.

uniform

Brown leather belts with straps and ammo pouches were used, together with a gas mask in cloth bag. A big green rucksack was also common. The uniform was grey-green (almost bluish), and there were 3 basic kinds of tunic:

Service tunic: Single breasted w/ stand & fly collar piped in red, fly front, breast & side pockets with rounded flaps, round cuffs piped in red, and no shoulder straps.

Winter tunic: Looser fitting, patch pockets sewn on outside.

Summer tunic: Lightweight cotton duck anorak.

Service headdress was a stiff kepi, with black leather peak & chinstrap, and lace of braid according to rank. A cocarde of the National colours, red, white and blue, was in front. The most common head-dress is the ”Finnmarkslue”, a soft field cap with matching peak and ear flaps piped in red, which fastened at the side of the cap with a button and cloth cocarde.

weapons

Krag-Jörgensen gevaer m/1889: rifle
Calibre: 6.5 mm
Weight: 4.0 kg
Magazine: 5 rounds
Muzzle velocity: 700-745 m/s

Hotchkiss mitraljöse m/1898: heavy machine gun
Calibre: 6.5 mm, 8 mm and 10.15 mm
Weight: 25.2 kg
Muzzle velocity: 740 m/s
Rate of fire: 500 rpm

Military, incase theres a conflict.

125,000 Infantry

1st Infantry Division (15,000)
1st Infantry Regiment (5,000)
2nd Infantry Regiment (4,500)
1st Artillery Regiment (4,500)

2nd Infantry Division (15,000)
3rd Infantry Regiment (6,000)
1st Calvary Regiment (3,000)
2nd Artillery Regiment (6,000)

3rd Artillery Division (15,000)
4th Infantry Regiment (6,000)
3rd Artillery Regiment (4,500)
4th Artillery Regiment (4,500)

4th Infantry Division (15,000)
6th Infantry Regiment (5,500)
8th Infantry Regiment (5,500)
5th Artillery Regiment (4,000)

5th Infantry Division (15,000)
5th Infantry Regiment (5,000)
7th Infantry Regiment (5,000)
6th Artillery Regiment (5,000)

6th Calvary Division (15,000)
9th Infantry Regiment (7,000)
2nd Calvary Regiment (5,000)
3rd Calvary Regiment (3,000)

7th Calvary Division (15,000)
10th Infantry Regiment (6,000)
4th Calvary Regiment (4,500)
5th Calvary Regiment (4,500)

8th Engineer Division (15,000)
1st Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)
2nd Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)
3rd Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)

1st Colombian Republican Guard (5,000)
1st Republican Battalion (1,000)
2nd Republican Battalion (1,000)
3rd Republican Battalion (1,000)
4th Republican Battalion (1,000)
5th Republican Battalion (1,000)

280,000 reserves (19 Divisions)

5,500 army air corps
100 JN4 Jenny Aircraft
75 Bristol Scout Aircraft

NAVY:
2 Battlecruisers (1 Under Construction)
2 Light Carriers (Under Construction)
4 Heavy Cruisers (2 Under Construction)
20 Destroyers (5 Under Construction)
20 Submarines (Being Purchased)
10 Torpedo Boats

the Mexican navy has been put on full alert.

King Haakan gazed sorrowfully out of the window of the lavishly decorated state room, he turned and sat down at his desk and motioned for the man opposite him to do likewise. "what news from the continent, Olaf?" he sighed, already anticipating the bad news.

"Well the Russian Communists seem ready to invade and crush Roumania, and the world looks altogether on the edge of war, sire" replied the thin, balding man dressed in a crisply pressed suit.

"Just as i thought" replied Haakan, "Olaf, youve advised me well these long years, what action do you suggest we take?"

"Well, sire i think we must take the only action available to us, we must declare our neutrality in any conflict immediatly, though we have no allies to protect us if that neutrality is compromised... As well as this i suggest we improve the training of the national guard so we may put up some sort of resistance if we are invaded..."

The Kingdom of Norway wishes to express its neutrality. Any country that attempts to compromise this neutrality will be dealt with by the Royal Norwegian Armed Forces. As well as this the Storting passes the Defence of Norway act, making sure that all able bodied 16-50 year olds receive at least some basic military training.

The Japanese Task Force in the Carribean has been Ordered to Constantinople to hold talks with the Ottomans on Possible trade and military alliance.

SAFN- Model 1922 Self-Loading Rifle Prototype

http://gunthings.com/egyptSAFN49.jpg

Caliber: 7.92x57 mm
Action: Gas Operated, Tilting Bolt
Overall Length: 1116 mm
Barrel Length: 590 mm
Wieght: 4.31 kg
Magazine Capacity: 10 rounds

Overview:The SAFN-22 is a gas operated, semi-automatic, magazine fed rifle. SAFN-22 uses a short-piston stroke gas drive, with gas camber and a gas piston-tappet located above the barrel. The gas piston has its own separate return spring. The tilting bolt is linked to the bolt carrier, and tilts down to lock into the floor of the milled steel receiver. Charging handle is mounted at the right side of the bolt carrier and reciprocates when gun is fired. The SAFN-22 is fed from non-detachable, box magazine that holds 10 cartridges. Magazine can be loaded through the receiver opening with loose cartridges or standard 5-round Mauser stripper clips. Magazine has a bolt catch which holds the bolt open after the last round from magazine is fired. Barrel is equipped with muzzle flash hider and a bayonet mount. The single-piece stock is made from wood and has a semi-pistol grip and a separate upper handguard. Front sight is mounted on the gas chamber and is protected by two side "wings", rear sight is of adjustable diopter type and is mounted at the rear of the receiver.

OCC:

Comments?

* I realize that this may be a little ahead of it's time but in truth, the technology required to make a semi-automatic rifle has been around for decades. Plus, at this time, FN employs John Browning and Dieudonne Saive, both geniuses in the Arms Engineering world. Furthermore, FN has been working on it for about 4 years now (I stated that FN was designing a new rifle for the Belgian Army in 1917 on my revised '1908-1920 Events' posts.) Thus, I do believe that a rifle of this sort is plausible at this time and it will, of course be vigourously tested by the Belgian government before being put into service (if it passes that is). So don't expect to see these rifles in the hands of Belgian soldiers until around 1923 or 1924.

Also, I would like to say that I am surprised that others have not persued this sort of technology as well. I mean, the Russians already had a prototype for the first Assault Rifle (Federov Rifle) by 1916, and with some minor improvements, could have been quite effective in the field and ushered in a new age of small arms 30 years before Assault Rifles were ever even considered in RL.

OOC: I think it's cool. I'd personally like to develop one of those...or buy them from you and then make French copies.

Well I had actually planned to get you to design it closer to the date of its real design... 1939.

Does anyone know of good websites about the state of the Hungarian military at this time, or any recommendations on the size/makeup it would be appreciated.

Does anyone know of good websites about the state of the Hungarian military at this time, or any recommendations on the size/makeup it would be appreciated.

Heres the closest thing I could find:

Hungarian Order of Battle (http://www.feldgrau.com/a-hungary.html)

Heres the closest thing I could find:

Hungarian Order of Battle (http://www.feldgrau.com/a-hungary.html)

sources like that are entirely appropriate.. feel free to use them

Thanks for the help! Now I just need to find out how many men are in the army in total and I should be able to update my army.....

EDIT: Another quick question (no research required!) to anyone. What do you guys think would be an appropriate size for my airforce?

Thanks for the help! Now I just need to find out how many men are in the army in total and I should be able to update my army.....

EDIT: Another quick question (no research required!) to anyone. What do you guys think would be an appropriate size for my airforce?

there is bound to be a website somewhere talking about the Hungarian Air Force in World War II... its pretty small, from what I remember just a few squadrons or about 300 aircraft of all types during the 1930s.

There has not been a successful guerilla war to date.. last two wars where the Cuban war against the Spanish, which they were losing until the US kicked the Spanish out (historical), and the US suppression of the Philippine Insurrection.
In both cases the Guerilla lost or was losing.

So at this point there is no successful guerilla doctrine. Mao came up with that one, and Sharina hasn't had a communist uprising in China yet (although he is due for one... the Communist Party in China should exist by now, and they are convinced the urban workers are the way to go, it took defeat and Mao to change the focus to the rural peasantry, but thats later).

There is an amphibious doctrine however, but it depends on landing where the enemy isn't. All of the landings in the Great War were against undefended beaches, as were the landings in the US invasion of Venezuela.

There are no commandos, rangers, special forces or paratroopers yet either. However, some experimentation with parachutes is underway so the ground work is there if your nation is tech level 5 and has an actual air force of some kind. Historically the Soviets and Americans came up with idea first (there was an American plan to use them in 1919 if World War I had continued and the Soviets actually began experiments in the early 1920s).

Now in our Great War it was relatively short, and mass armies decided the day. The Germans have developed infiltration tactics, as have the other powers who fought in that war (although a little later) and so have the Americans, British, Japanese and Chinese for various reasons, and probably so have the Colombians and British Imperial Dominions (South Africa, Australia).

But the development of special operations troops on more than an ad hoc basis did not come out of that war and should not exist yet.

When the next war comes, and apparently that could be any day now, then those things will come quickly, along with actual air tactics, the use of armor, flexible artillery doctrine etc.. all the things that show up for the first time in a big way in the First World War historically. Probably so will gas warfare, bombing cities and other nasty stuff.

Some Further Comments on Guerrilla Warfare
It does exist even now, but as my colleague has noted, there hasn't been a successful one yet. Partly, this is a matter of doctrine, as GB notes the Maoist theory of "People's War" has yet to be fully developed, but also I think it has to do with the still fledgling state of worldwide commerce and the global industrial base. The kind of mass-produced and extremely lethal small arms and explosives just aren't really as easily available yet as they will become in a few decades.

Russian Actions in the Far East
In preparation for the expiration of the lease of Manchuria and Port Arthur (I think that happens next year, but I'll have to check . . .), the Union is expanding and fortifying the Naval and Military Facilities at Vladivostok.

In response to Russia's Expansion of Vladivostok, Japan begins moving Forces from Manchuria and Port Arthur to Sakhalin Islands to guard against Russians.

In response to Russia's Expansion of Vladivostok, Japan begins moving Forces from Manchuria and Port Arthur to Sakhalin Islands to guard against Russians.
Again, Moscow will remind Tokyo that our Non-Aggression Pact remains in force. It is Japan that seems to be ignoring that . . .

The lease on Manchuria and Port arthur is expiring, you said so yourself. I'm just moving those troops to where they could be most useful to counter communism which my country has a general distrust of.

There has not been a successful guerilla war to date.. last two wars where the Cuban war against the Spanish, which they were losing until the US kicked the Spanish out (historical), and the US suppression of the Philippine Insurrection.
In both cases the Guerilla lost or was losing.

...

There are no commandos, rangers, special forces or paratroopers yet either.

[emphasis mine]

I would like to point out a couple of things here.

1) There has been a successful guerrilla war. The First Boer War (also called the Transvaal Rebellion, 1880-1881) was fought between the British Army and Boer irregulars, i.e. guerrillas. The Boers won a major victory at Majuba, which caused the British to concede defeat.

2) There are Elite units in the world. Elite units (though not necessarily special forces as we know them today) exist in the form of the United States Marines and the Boer Kommandos. Both groups emphasize marksmanship and proficiency with weapons, but the Boers are also pretty damn good when it comes to raiding the enemy's rear areas and avoiding capture. How else did the Second Boer War last as long as it did? Also, the British Commandos of WWII were called so out of respect for the Boers, whom Churchill admired as fighters.

So, finally, while they may not be the black-clad, teched-out, SMG-toting phantoms we know today, elite units definitely existed prior to 1922.

true, there are elite, in the morale or higher than standard training sense, but they aren't what we in this year and place think of as elite.

An example....
top of the pyramid --- 2005 era combat experienced SAS or Delta Force trooper is considered the mostly highly skilled soldier on the planet today. In 1922 there aren't any soldiers like that. There are regular soldiers with long experience in high morale units like certain British regiment, the US marines etc, highly trained regular soldiers in the Alpine regiments of the various armies and that kind of thing. Below them in quality are your long service regulars found mostly in the smaller British or American armies (or the British Imperial Dominions or Legion Estranger), and than there are the conscripts, which make up the majority of everyone elses armies in Europe and Japan, and then below them are the conscripts found outside of Europe or Japan or China or Korea

So elite is relative after all. A marine or British Coldstream Guard is elite compared to a German or Russian conscript, but would not be elite compared to our 21st century definition of elite. I just want to make sure we don't have units that don't exist yet without a reasonable excuse for having been formed.

the 1st Boer War was won by the Boers, but more through pitched battles and lightning raids using militia light horse than the standard definition of guerillas hiding in the population found in the 2nd Boer War... which the Boers lost (I forgot to include that one). However, Boer tactics would influence the British the same way that tactics developed in the Philippines influence the Americans. Both wars featured a lot of raiding.

We're reassigning Red Army units from Central Asia and Europe to reinforce the Far East against probable Japanese aggression. We're also commencing training in amphibious assault in Kamchatka.

Also, at the request of Istambul, we are stationing two Red Army Corps in Asia Minor to assist in the defense of the Turkish Empire should it prove necessary.

Japan shifts the bulk of its Cruiser and Destroyer Fleet to the north to defend against possible Amphibious invasion by russia, and stations 23 Submarines in Sea of Okhotsk to patrol between Sakhalin Island and the Kuril Islands.

The main gurrilla action that many of the current terrorists in the middle east etc are inspired by was the 1916 Easter Rebellion in Eire and the IRA which followed a little later. this led to partition in 1920 or 1921 and as yet neither of these have happened, so a major guerrilla campaign and rebellion that has inspired terrorists and freedom fighters for generations has not taken place.

Also the closest thing you have to special forces at this time are the Stosstruppen the Germans had in WWII. They moved around at night, infiltrating enemy lines and destroying machine gun nests, or just causing havok in the rear areas. The next unit that operates will be the German Kommandos of World War II, who attacked places like the Eben Emael fortress.

that reminds me, at some point Ireland does need to come up as a problem for Britain

Because of general South African paranoia about not having enough artillery (due to their experiences during the Boer War when superior British artillery wreaked havoc on the Boers), the Royal South African Army has ordered several batteries' worth of cannon from South Africa's arms factories.

Also, it is rumored that there is a new sort of light-weight machine gun under development for the RSAA.

The entire Workers' and Peasants' Red Baltic Fleet will be conducting maneuvers in the North Sea and the Barents Sea this summer. We will tolerate British observation in the North Sea but once we cross into the Barents any vessels following us will be deemed hostile and destroyed.

Imperial Japanese Navy 1923

10 Battleships
4 Nagato class (Nagato, Mutsu, Tosa, Mikasa) 33,600 tons, 26 knots, 8 x 16 inch guns, 20 x 5.5 inch guns, 4 x 3 inch guns, last ship completed 1922 (mixed oil / coal burning)

4 Fuso class (Fuso, Yamashiro, Ise, Hyuga), 30,000 tons, 23 knots, 12 x 14 inch guns, 16 x 6 inch guns, 4 x 3 inch guns, (coal burning)

2 Haruna class (Haruna, Kirishima), 30,000 tons, 30 knots, 8 x 14 inch, 16 x 6 inch, 4 x 3 inch, (converted to oil burning, armored upgraded 1920)

Carriers
3 Kaga class (Kaga, Akagi, Hosho) 27,000 tons, 28 knots, 60 aircraft
2 Kongo class (Kongo, Hiei) 27,000 tons, 30 knots, 60 aircraft

15 Cruisers
2 Tenryu class light cruisers (Tenryu, Tatsuta), 4,000 tons, 33 knots, 4 x 5.5 inch guns, 6 torpedo tubes (oil)

5 Kuma class light cruisers (Kuma, Tama, Kitakami, Oi, Kiso), 5500 tons, 36 knots, 4 x 5.5 inch guns, 8 torpedo tubes, (oil)

6 Nagara class light cruisers (Nagara, Isuzu, Natori, Yura, Kimu, Abukuma) 5500 tons, 36 knots, 7 x 5.5 inch, 8 torpedo tubes,

1 Yubari class light cruiser (Yubari) 2800 tons, 36 knots, 6 x 5.5 inch guns, 4 torpedo tubes

1 Sendai class light cruiser (Sendai), 5600 tons, 35 knots, 7 x 5.5 inch guns, 8 torpedo tubes,

Under construction
3 Sendai class (Naka, Jintsu, Kako)
2 Furutaka class heavy cruisers (Furutaka, Kako), 8100 tons, 34 knots, 6 x 8 inch guns, 4 x 4 inch guns, 12 x torpedo tubes,

6 additional heavy cruisers planned to be laid down and built between 1924-27

Destroyers
100 in service organized into 20 squadrons, 10 under construction

Torpedo boats (older smaller destroyers)
30 remain in service in 3 torpedo squadrons

70 Submarines
9 training boats, 41 coast defense boats, 10 ocean going, plus 20 under various stages of construction or planned

Aircraft
350 carrier based (Jenny, DH4)
100 flying boats and float planes (various Curtis models)

an extremely thorough link
http://homepage2.nifty.com/nishidah/e/index.htm

and another good one
http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm

Naval aviation information
http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijnaf.htm

special note: All Japanese cruisers and carriers burn oil only, as do all destroyers and submarines. Some of the torpedo boats and battleships still burn coal. Japan has not yet built its own aircraft of its design, but does build license versions of various French, US and British aircraft.

The entire Workers' and Peasants' Red Baltic Fleet will be conducting maneuvers in the North Sea and the Barents Sea this summer. We will tolerate British observation in the North Sea but once we cross into the Barents any vessels following us will be deemed hostile and destroyed.

the US State Department asks if the Russian government defines the Barents Sea as east of Nord Kapp, as south and west of that is technically the Norwegian Sea, and south of that is the North Sea.

The Barents Sea for purposes of these maneuvers is East of Nord Kapp, in indisputable Union waters.

after careful research a torpedo bomber must be able to carry a 1,000 (450 kilogram) payload to be a torpedo bomber, which is going to rule out a lot of aircraft at this point.

However, aircraft are getting better quickly.

Galveston Bay- How could I impove my arm forces , like in what ways. Also I would like to know if my nation tech allows me to build at the very least Heavy Cruisers.

Galveston Bay- How could I impove my arm forces , like in what ways. Also I would like to know if my nation tech allows me to build at the very least Heavy Cruisers.

heavy cruisers are Tech level 5, as a Washington Naval Treaty member, they must be under 10,000 tons, have cannot have guns larger than 8.0 inches. (203 mm). They take three years to build in peacetime, 4 years if it is the first ship of this type you are building.

ooc
to give everyone a feel for what aircraft can do and what they cost in 1920-21. Check out the links, they provide pictures, performance information and links to other places
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/ac/w1.htm
http://www.theaerodrome.com/aircraft/

generally valuable is the USAF Museum, and this website on World War I aircraft

IC
American aircraft 1923

Army Air Service
Training, Light Bombing, Observation: 20 squadrons (12 training, 8 operational, 1100 aircraft ) JN4 Jenny
Speed 90 MPH, range 75 miles, cost $5,600 crew 2, armament: 2 machine guns (1 front, 1 observer), 200 pounds bombs

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/ey2b.htm

Observation and Bombing:
100 J1 Standard (4 squadrons) Speed 72 MPH, range 235 miles, cost $6,000, crew 2, armament 2 machine guns, 300 pounds bombs

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/ey10.htm

120 Martin MB2 (10 squadrons) speed 99 mph, range 558 miles, cost $15,000 crew 4, armament 4 machine guns, 3000 pounds bombs,

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/ac/pg000026.htm

Scouting and Advanced training:
150 Thomas Morse S4C (6 training squadrons) speed 95 MPH, range 250 miles, cost $6500, crew 1, armament 1 machine gun

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/ey4a.htm

400 Packard LePere LUSAC Sparrows (18 squadrons) speed 136 cruise 118 range 320 miles, crew 2, 4 machine guns (2 front, 2 rear),

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/ey9.htm

Balloons and Blimps
Observation balloons
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/ey5a.htm

experimental aircraft
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/ey3a.htm


Notable achievements to date by Air Service and Navy
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/postwwi/rtr.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/postwwi/tret.htm
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/postwwi/acd.htm
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/postwwi/asr.htm
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/postwwi/faf.htm
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/postwwi/maf.htm

US Navy Aviation
Navy uses smaller squadrons

Training
100 aircraft (8 squadrons) JN4 Jennys including 1 squadron float planes


Observation and advanced training
200 aircraft (8 training squadrons, 16 operational squadrons)
Curtis MF 1 Flying boats speed 72 MPH, range 170 miles, crew 2, 1 machine gun, 250 pounds bombs, operational squadrons are assigned to battleships, carriers, and seaplane tenders

Observation and long range scouting
24 (2 squadrons) NC Long Range flying boats , speed 90 mph, range 1,400 miles, crew 6, 4 machine guns, 1,000 pounds bombs

100 (8 squadrons) HSL2 Flying boats, speed 90 mph, range 550 miles, crew 2, 1 machine gun, 2 depth charges or 500 pounds of bombs

200 (16 squadrons) HS16 Flying boats, speed 100 mph, range 600 miles, crew 4, 4 machines guns, 4 depth charges or 1000 pounds of bombs

Lighter than air squadrons
80 D class Blimps (16 squadrons), twin engined Blimps, speed 50 MPH, range 1000 miles, crew 4, 1 machine gun, 4 depth charges or 1000 pounds of bombs.

Carrier Scout and Bombing aircraft
240 Packard La Pere (20 squadrons),
120 Douglass DT2 Torpedo bombers (10 squadrons),
120 Douglas DT1 Scout planes (10 squadrons),

additional squadrons are being or have been formed for the 4 new carriers entering service

Douglas DT1/2, single engined, speed 103 mph, combat range 800 miles (scout), 300 miles (torpedo bomber). 2 machine guns, plus either fuel for scouting and 500 pounds of bombs or 1 x 2000 pound torpedo



updated as US Navy and Army Air Service substantially increase in size due to world tensions. Better aircraft added, giving carriers the ability to actually attack and probably sink enemy warships in certain conditions.

As a military what would Bulgaria need in order to have a self-sufficient and regular military on a slightly reasonable scale in order to survive and thrive as a nation?

MAS-22 Fusil Automatique De Peloton (FAD)

Type: Fully Automatic

Caliber: 7.5mm

Barrel Length: 610mm

Ammunition: 7.5 millimeter Mauser

Magazine: 30 rounds

Action: Gas Operated, Open Bolt

Length: 1214mm

Weight: 19 lbs.

ROF: 650 Rounds Per Minute

Muzzle Velocity: 2640 feet per second

The FAD is light machine gun designed with the BAR in mind and is based off of it heavily. It departs from the BAR on two points: it has a carrying handle on the barrel and the magazine is placed on top rather then underneath. It has a detachable bipod and is supposed to be used as a squad light machine gun. The guns is designed for operation by one person, with the rest of the squad carrying extra ammunition.

It is supposed to replace the Chauchat with in the next few years.

ooc
by the way, at this point most Admirals think carrier aircraft are excellent scouts, and good for sinking crippled enemy warships. The concept of the carrier raid is still being kicked around, but now aircraft actually capable of carrying out one are available.

IC
All US Naval aircraft and Army trainers and fighters are available for sale to London Treaty Alliance nations. Hungary, Korea, Bulgaria, Burgundy, Belgium, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, and the Scandinavian countries can purchase them as well, as can Siam.

You warmongering death-merchant.

You warmongering death-merchant.

ooc
we aren't called the Arsenal of Democracy for nothing after all... well, its a little early actually to be called that, but nevertheless.... :)

British Army Reforms

The British Army is embarking on it's first major reforms since 1881.

The organisation has been changed to the following:

1000 men to a batallion (around 800-850 combatants), 3 or 4 batallions to a brigade and 4 brigades to a division. Giving a figure of 12-16 batallions in a division.

Additional company, batallion, brigade and divisional level artillery is added to this total alongside the following special units: 1 motorcycle company per brigade, 1 medical company per batallion, 1 signals comapny per batallion, 1 HQ company per batallion, 1 armoured car platoon per brigade, 1 MG company per batallion.

Infantry equipment is as follows:

Pattern 1908 Mills Gear, (one 3" waistbelt, two 2" cross braces, a left and right side ammo pouch set with 5 pouches each able to hold a maximum of 150 rounds, a haversack for personal items, entrenching tool, and large pack attached to the cross braces in back. The No.1 Mark IVI Short Magazine Lee Enfield .303 caliber rifle with the 1907 Wilkinson 17" blade bayonet, 100 rounds of extra ammunition held in cloth bandoliers, gas mask and a mark II pattern steel hemet.

The uniform was made of khaki material patterned in the 1902 service dress fashion. The typical battle uniform consisted of a 5 button tunic with closable collar, straight trousers held up by suspenders, a light blue collarless undershirt, black ankle boots, puttees or leg wraps which were wound from the ankle to the calf, a single breasted greatcoat or trenchcoat, trench cap, and leather jerkin during cold weather. Wellington boots are also available in trench or muddy conditions.

Tank formations remain as my earlier post with tanks updated to more modern varients.

This new organistaion applies to most colonial armies as well, except that in smaller colonies the organisation is unlikely to reach higher than brigade or even regimental level.

Total number of English and welsh batalions increased from 51 regiments (1881 standard) to 110. Mosty cavalry (around 30 regiments) disbanded and replaced by Light Infantry batallions.
Scottish Batallions increased from 10 to 25
Irish 8 to 20
India 100 to 150 (most cavalry regiments disbanded and replaced with light infantry)
Canada 50 to 80 (again most cavalry regiments disbanded)

Most other colonies maintain at least 10-15 regiments plus artillery etc. and some will have more.

There are also the colonial militia which have now been gifted the army's cast off .303 calibre Lee Enfield no. Mk III, IV and V rifles which are all compatable with current ammunition.

OOC: The reorganistaion is pretty much standard as historical with a few tweaks (ie. rifles gifted to militia).

The Warsaw Pact and the Chinese Empire have concluded a Mutual Defense Treaty, to take effect if either is attacked by a third power. The Union is also handing over all its Manchurian properties to Beijing.

Also, the Red Fleet and the Turkish Navy are conducting joint exercise in the Black Sea and the Eastern Mediterranean this Summer.

Australia would like tp get limited production rights to the Douglas Torpdo Bomber, NC Long Range flying boats, Martin MB2 and the Packard LePere LUSAC Sparrows from our friends in the United States.

OOC: Incoming military reforms this weekend.

Australia would like tp get limited production rights to the Douglas Torpdo Bomber, NC Long Range flying boats, Martin MB2 and the Packard LePere LUSAC Sparrows from our friends in the United States.

Curtis Aircraft will set up a plant in Melbourne, Australia to the production of flying boats, while Douglas aircraft will open one in Sydney. Packard however is leaving the aircraft business but will allow production under license. Martin refuses licensing but will start selling Martin MB2s to the Australians and Japanese.

OOC: Rifle Propelled Grenades?


Here's why, I want to break my Infantry Platoons down like this

1 Heavy Machine gun squad (8 Soldiers, Gunner, A Gunner, and a 6 man protective Detail for the Browning M2, everybody gets to help haul the bastard)
3 Infantry Squads made up of 3 teams of 4 each Alpha, Bravo and Charlie
Charlie Team will be the LMG/GPMG(when I decide on one) team, Team leader, Gunner, A Gunner, and Ammo Carrier

Alpha and bravo teams will consist of 1 Team Leader (M1921 Thompson .45ACP)
2 Riflemen(Mauser Jap mod, 6.5mm Carbine) (or if I can 1 with a Rifle propelled grenade)
1 Gunner with a Browning Automatic Rifle also chambered to the 6.5mm round

Squad leaders in addition to their Thompsons will be carrying a M1911A1 pistol as will Platoon Sergeants and Platoon Leaders, Platoon Leaders will also carry samurai Swords.



Infantry Companys will each have an Headquarters Platoon with a Mortar squad with two Light(60mm) Mortars around two 5 man teams

Infantry Battalions will each have one HHC Company with one mortar platoon which consists of a total of 8 medium (81mm) Mortar systems.

Infantry Battalions will have a total of 6 companies and that includes the HHC company


There will be 3 battalions in each Infantry Regiment. Above that I still have to figure out how I want to go.

Royal Navy 1923 (as in the British Royal Navy)
Carriers
Argus
14,000 tons, 20 knots, 20 aircraft

Eagle, Hermes
20,000 tons, 24 knots, 20 aircraft

Currently undergoing conversion
Glorious, Courageous, Furious (all available 1925)
22,500 tons, 30 knots, 48 aircraft

the British carriers are inefficiently laid out, and therefore have smaller hanger decks than the American and Japanese ships. The penalty for being first.

Battleships
Queen Elizabeth, Warspite, Barham, Valiant, Malaya,
31,000 tons, 24 knots, 8 x 15 inch guns, 16 x 6 inch, 8 x 4 inch AA, 2 aircraft

Royal Sovereign, Revenge, Royal Oak, Resolution, Ramillies,
28,000 tons, 23 knots, 8 x 15 inch guns, 14 x 6 inch, 2 x 4 inch AA, 2 aircraft

Rodney, Nelson
33,000 tons, 23 knots, 9 x 16 inch guns, 12 x 6 inch guns, 6 x 4 inch AA,

Renown, Repulse,
28,000 tons, 28 knots, 6 x 15 inch guns, 20 x 4 inch AA (rebuilt 1921, up armored)

Hood
35,000, 28 knots, 8 x 15 inch guns, 20 x 4 inch AA (rebuilt 1921, up armored,)

46 Royal Navy cruisers (includes 2 South African, 3 Australian)
Chatham, Dublin, Southhampton, Sydney (RAN), Melbourne (RAN), Brisbane (RAN)
5400 tons, 25 knots, 8 x 6 inch guns, 2 x torpedo tubes

Birmingham, Lowestoft, Adelaide, Nottingham, Caroline, Carysfort, Cleopatra, Comos, Conquest, Cordelia, Calliope, Champion, Cambrian, Canterbury, Castor, Constance
5500 tons, 25 knots, 9 x 6 inch guns, 2 torpedo tubes

Centaur, Concord
5500 tons, 29 knots, 5 x 6 inch guns, 3 x 3 inch guns, 2 torpedo tubes

Caledon, Calypso, Caredoc, Cassandra
4100 tons, 30 knots, 5 x 6 inch guns, 2 x 3 inch guns, 8 torpedo tubes

Calcutta, Capetown (RSAN), Cairo, Colombo
4300 tons, 30 knots, 8 x 4 inch AA, 12 lighter guns

Danae, Dauntless, Delhi, Despatch, Diomede, Dragon, Dublin, Durban (RSAN)
4800 tons, 29 knots, 6 x 6 inch, 3x 4 inch AA, 12 torpedo tubes

Emerald, Enterprise
7800 tons, 33 knots, 7 x 6 inch, 3 x 4 inch AA, 16 torpedo tubes, 1 aircraft

Effingham, Frobisher, Hawkins, Cavendish
9800 tons, 30 knots, 8 x 4 inch AA guns, 12 lighter AA guns,

15 heavy cruisers planned beginning 1926

20 Monitors (fire support and harbor defense)
140 destroyers (28 squadrons organized into 14 flotillas) plus 14 flotilla leaders
100 submarine (10 training, 90 ocean going)
20 gunboats

nearly all other ships were scrapped or otherwise disposed of.

Curtis Aircraft will set up a plant in Melbourne, Australia to the production of flying boats, while Douglas aircraft will open one in Sydney. Packard however is leaving the aircraft business but will allow production under license. Martin refuses licensing but will start selling Martin MB2s to the Australians and Japanese.

Australia is gratefull for the help in building up our aircraft industry from both the Curtis and Douglas companies. We will soon be establishing a plant in Adeliade for the Packards, as for the Martin MB2's we would like to purchase four squadrons of 12.

Secret IC:

A few divisions of reserves are being called up, and Italy has gone into a higher state of alert. Intelligence services are now probing Germany, Russia, and the Ottoman Empire for any war plans they might have. Italy has noted increased activity in the Ottoman Empire concerning calling up all of their Anatolian reserves and the shoring up of Cretan defenses, and the paranoid leaders of Italy have decided it is a Germo-Russian scheme to invade Italy and Libya. Troops are even placed on the border with France.

The navy has stepped up patrols, and is attempting to use submarines to watch over the Aegean.

OOC: How do I know this? As VP has the tendency to point out, this guy didn't post "Secret IC" before his post and, therefore, I know everything. Although it is just as likely that the two of us would not know everything going on.

Italy, had that what I want everyone thinking someone big is happening...but nothing happens at all, we'll all have to see what would happen next. Now of couse I didn't put in In Secret, come on now...even in secret, you would notice a massive troop build up, if not your blind. Just wait and seen folks.

Also Italy, get on MSN, I'll try to explain to you, what happaning.

ooc
just as long as you keep me, the war moderator informed of any start of hostilities. It does make figuring out results easier.

German Army

Standard Weapon

Gewehr 43

Caliber: 7.92 x 57 mm Mauser
Muzzle velocity: 775 m/s (2,328 ft/s)
Action: Gas operated
Overall length: 1130 mm
Barrel length: 546 mm

versions with barrel lengths of 600, 650 and 700 mm existed as well

Weight: 4.1 kg (9.7 lb), unloaded and without the scope
Rate of fire: 20 to 30 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 10 rounds

Mauser C96

Cartridge 7.63x25mm Mauser/7.62 x 25 mm TT
Muzzle velocity 430 m/sec
Effective range Up to 500 m
Weight (Unloaded) 1100 g
Length 288 mm
Barrel 140
Magazine capacity 6, 10 or 20 rounds
Viewing sights sector sight

Armor

Panzerkampfwagen I

Length 4.4 m
Width 2.0 m
Height 1.7 m
Weight 6 t
Suspension Helical spring / leaf-spring
Speed 20 km/h road
km/h off-road
Range 115 to 140 km
Primary armament none
Secondary armament 2 x 7.92 mm MG
Maximum armour 13 mm
Power plant Maybach NL38TR gasoline
100 hp (75 kW)
Crew 2 (commander and driver)

Fokker Dr. I

Single-seat fighter and reconnaissance plane
Powerplant One Oberursel Ur. II rotary piston engine
Dimensions Length 5.77 m
Wingspan 7.20 m
Height 2.95 m
Wing area 18.70 m²
Weights
Empty 406 kg
Maximum take-off 585 kg
Performance
Maximum speed 165 km/h
Operative range unknown
Service ceiling 6095 m
Armament
Machine guns two, fixed

Eckener Class Carrier Zeppelins

Dead Weight: 221,000 pounds (100 t)
Useful Load: 182,000 pounds (83 t)
Length: 785 feet (240 m)
Diameter: 132.5 feet (40 m)
Height: 152.5 feet (46 m)
Volume: 6,500,000 ft³ (180,000 m³)
Propulsion:
Speed: 50 knots (90 km/h) cruising, 72 knots (130 km/h) maximum
Range:
Complement: 89 officers and men
Armament: seven machineguns
Aircraft: four aircraft



176 Zeppelins, Carrying 4 Fokker Triplanes Each
64 Scout Zeppelins
12 Experimental Transport Zeppelins
48 Bomber Zeppelins

1096 Fokker Triplanes

324 Panzer I
71 Panzer I(a)-25mm
98 Panzer I(f)-Flametanks

65 Infantry Divisions

Ottoman Empire
3 Infantry Divisons
5 Carrier Zeppelins
3 Scout Zeppelins
20 Panzer I

Semi-Auto Rifles are allowed?

OOC: Albania wishes to know what is the current status of the campain against the Zog rebels, which has been going on for over two years. 11,000 Albanian troops and 10,000 Greek troops have been hunting them down.

OOC: Albania wishes to know what is the current status of the campain against the Zog rebels, which has been going on for over two years. 11,000 Albanian troops and 10,000 Greek troops have been hunting them down.

oops, forgot about that... you won.. a few survivors fled, the rest are in prison or dead, including poor King Zog who died in a final battle. You had sufficient overwhelming numbers (10:1 is considered necessary for a quick win over guerillas, and 2 years is a quick win)

Jerusalem Arms to Open Second Factory

Jerusalem Arms, Inc. has announced that a second factory will be opening in Jerusalem. The first, opened in 1920, poduces small arms, such as the Jer-Ar rifle, a copy of the French Mas-15 and Maxim machine guns. The new factory will be producing light artillery pieces, including a 47mm pack howitzer for the new Long Rnage Desert Combat Group, 50mm mortars, and 75mm fied pieces.

Long Range Desert Combat Group Formed

A new formation was formed today or the Plaetinian military, the LRDCG. This formation will be tained in desert warfare, and is designed to be able to operate for extended priod in desert climes. Curently, it is planned that the LRDCG will contain 5,000 men.


Cross posted from my news thread.

Italy has begun construction of a road to link Libya to French North Africa. Construction has begun in Tripoli, and it is to go to the border with FNA. It has been publically declared a "goodwill mission," although it has some military purposes.

France welcomes the road and has begun work on it from their own side. French officials are also considering expanding a rail network into Italian Libya.

Bulgaria for mid-1923 has a navy consisting of:
Main Fleet:
3 Battleships (Caterina, Anastacia, and Ferdinand)
9 Cruisers {1 is a heavy cruiser}
30 Destroyers (Varna and Sofia Classes)
As well as 25 auxiliary ships and fuel carriers...

Bulgaria's Air Force consists of 20-25 training air craft, various types of modern aircraft sometimes from other nations...

Royal Army has a total of 210,000 men and women in various states of service. The Navy and Air Force also are well taken care of at his time...

Bulgaria for mid-1923 has a navy consisting of:
Main Fleet:
3 Battleships (Caterina, Anastacia, and Ferdinand)
9 Cruisers {1 is a heavy cruiser}
30 Destroyers (Varna and Sofia Classes)
As well as 25 auxiliary ships and fuel carriers...

Bulgaria's Air Force consists of 20-25 training air craft, various types of modern aircraft sometimes from other nations...

Royal Army has a total of 210,000 men and women in various states of service. The Navy and Air Force also are well taken care of at his time...
Um. No. You don't have three battleships. You don't have a battleship. You probably don't have any cruisers, either, let alone heavy ones. Check with Galveston Bay about what's possible for Bulgaria.

Um. No. You don't have three battleships. You don't have a battleship. You probably don't have any cruisers, either, let alone heavy ones. Check with Galveston Bay about what's possible for Bulgaria.

my guess would be 2 coast defense battleships, 2 small light cruisers, 10 destroyers, a few minesweepers... this would require a navy of about 15,000 men including shore personnel, and would be about all Bulgaria could afford. Dreadnoughts at this point are running $15-20 million each. Destroyers are about $1 million. In 1923 dollars of course. Coast Defense battleships are about 12000 tons, usually have 4 x 12 inch guns, good armor, short range, relatively slow, but are cheap to operate compared to a actual dreadnought.

The Pacific Red Fleet will be conducting joint naval exercises with the Chinese Imperial Navy in the international and Union waters of the Sea of Japan and the Sea of Okhotsk this Summer (1923).

The Japanese Imperial Navy and the Royal Navy of Korea will be permitted to observe from a distance outside the range of engagement.

One more thing, are Coast Defense Battleships covered by the Washington Conference?

One more thing, are Coast Defense Battleships covered by the Washington Conference?


I would say yes.......



Also How is your fleet planning to enter the Sea Okhokst as they have to pass very close to Japanese Shores of the Kuril Islands, Hokkadio, and Sakhalin Island. And what is going to be the exact composition of these exercises (how many ships are involved that would be transversing near Japanese Shores.) Also all submarines passing through Straights and narrows controlled by Japan must be surfaced as any unidentified submersible in these waters will be forced to the surface.

The Pacific Red Fleet will be conducting joint naval exercises with the Chinese Imperial Navy in the international and Union waters of the Sea of Japan and the Sea of Okhotsk this Summer (1923).

The Japanese Imperial Navy and the Royal Navy of Korea will be permitted to observe from a distance outside the range of engagement.

One more thing, are Coast Defense Battleships covered by the Washington Conference?

yes, but then Bulgaria didn't participate in the Washington Naval Treaty, and neither did Sweden, which is the design I am using for the Bulgarian ship. This ship is exceeds the tonnage limit for a cruiser and its guns are bigger than 8 inch, so it is technically a battleship. But as Bulgaria has less than 4 capital ships, its well within treaty limits.

I would say yes.......



Also How is your fleet planning to enter the Sea Okhokst as they have to pass very close to Japanese Shores of the Kuril Islands, Hokkadio, and Sakhalin Island. And what is going to be the exact composition of these exercises (how many ships are involved that would be transversing near Japanese Shores.) Also all submarines passing through Straights and narrows controlled by Japan must be surfaced as any unidentified submersible in these waters will be forced to the surface.
Proliv Laperuza (La Pérouse Strait, Japanese Sōya-Kaikyō, twenty-seven miles wide between Sakhalin and Hokkaido) is an international waterway. And that is all we need to inform you of.

Proliv Laperuza (La Pérouse Strait, Japanese Sōya-Kaikyō, twenty-seven miles wide between Sakhalin and Hokkaido) is an international waterway. And that is all we need to inform you of.

Its an international waterway when Japan controls Hokkadio and Russia Controls Sakhalin, but now that I control both capes on that straight. How far from my shores does Territorial waters extend I can't remember if its 12 or 20 miles.

X. The provisions of the preceding articles are applicable to straits not exceeding 12 m. in width, with the following modifications and exceptions: (t) Straits, the coast of which belong to different powers, See also:
FORM (Lat. forma)
form part of the territorial waters of the adjacent states, their jurisdiction respectively extending to the See also:
MIDDLE
middle line of the straits; (2) Straits whose coasts belong to the same state, and which are indispensable for maritime communication between two or more states other than the state in question, form part of the territorial waters of the said state whatever the proximity of the two coasts may be; (3) Straits serving as a passage between one open sea and another can never be closed. Art.


OOC: oops I stand corrected

http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/WAT_WIL/WATERS_TERRITORIAL.html

Its an international waterway when Japan controls Hokkadio and Russia Controls Sakhalin, but now that I control both capes on that straight. How far from my shores does Territorial waters extend I can't remember if its 12 or 20 miles.
We never settled it exactly in our treaty, but I do seem to recall there were provisions made for Russian shipping to have freedom of Okhotsk and the Bering. This would mean that I would have to have liberty of the Tatar Strait, La Perouse, and Cape Lopatka or whatever it's called between Kamchatka and the Kurils. Otherwise our agreement would force me to go down to, like, Taiwan in order to get to the North Pacific from Vladivostok, and I certainly wouldn't have agreed to that.

And territorial waters at this time are typically one league, or about five-and-a-half kilometers (or three-and-a-half miles) out from the coast. Six to twelve miles didn't become standard until later in the century.

Edit - You may have better information than me.

We never settled it exactly in our treaty, but I do seem to recall there were provisions made for Russian shipping to have freedom of Okhotsk and the Bering. This would mean that I would have to have liberty of the Tatar Strait, La Perouse, and Cape Lopatka or whatever it's called between Kamchatka and the Kurils. Otherwise our agreement would force me to go down to, like, Taiwan in order to get to the North Pacific from Vladivostok, and I certainly wouldn't have agreed to that.

And territorial waters at this time are typically one league, or about five-and-a-half kilometers (or three-and-a-half miles) out from the coast. Six to twelve miles didn't become standard until later in the century.


OOC: all right I had figured that out, but there is one interesting point that can be raised is perhaps we should have a conference to extend Territorial waters out farther from shore due to the modern range of Naval Gunfire to say 20 miles. I agree that a nation should not close a straight between to open seas, as would be in this case, and I do believe we did discuss that in our treaty which still stands in effect (yes I move troops to reinforce my positions,but admit it some of the stuff you've done across the world would be troubling to any nation) You expanded Vladivostok, that in itself would be troubling. But I'm rambling and I think we can work through our problems if you don't take IC actions OOC personally. I Think we should definetly host a new conference on such issues as distance Territorial waters from shore and such as this will start to matter when off shore Oil Tech comes to be. (especially with Sakhalin controlled by me and you have the rest of Siberia, that could cause problems)

OOC: all right I had figured that out, but there is one interesting point that can be raised is perhaps we should have a conference to extend Territorial waters out farther from shore due to the modern range of Naval Gunfire to say 20 miles. I agree that a nation should not close a straight between to open seas, as would be in this case, and I do believe we did discuss that in our treaty which still stands in effect (yes I move troops to reinforce my positions,but admit it some of the stuff you've done across the world would be troubling to any nation) You expanded Vladivostok, that in itself would be troubling. But I'm rambling and I think we can work through our problems if you don't take IC actions OOC personally. I Think we should definetly host a new conference on such issues as distance Territorial waters from shore and such as this will start to matter when off shore Oil Tech comes to be. (especially with Sakhalin controlled by me and you have the rest of Siberia, that could cause problems)
Yeah, I was in the middle of posting when you posted. I type slowly.
We might be able to work things out peacefully between us. Though a lot depends on exactly what needs working out.
And extending the limits of territorial waters is completely reasonable considering the range of modern naval guns, but there's no way I'll support it as long as there are tensions between Russia and Japan. I'm sure you can understand why.
If only you were Communist, we'd get along fine . . .
TG me.

If only you were Communist, we'd get along fine . . .


I can help with that... erm... ahem... yeah....... How 'bout them Royals!

Parthini']I can help with that... erm... ahem... yeah....... How 'bout them Royals!




OOC:
possible but far from likely, the militarists are about to take control of my government and well........ that wouldn't go over as well.


Screw the royals, but them chiefs they better start performing I have half their Offensive Team including Trent Green on my Fantasy football team.

Joint maneuvers with the Chinese Imperial Navy are immediately suspended as the Red Fleet supplies disaster relief to the people of Tokyo. (The other part of that operation, though, still goes through, GB.)

The Mediterranean Red Fleet, however, along with a small contingent of the Red Army (I don't know, like, a Division maybe) will move to assist the Spanish in controlling their recent Falangista uprising

The Baltic Squadron of the Red Fleet has been successfully redeployed to Vladivostok through the Northern Passage.

The Pacific Squadron, and a mess of military engineers and physicians out of Vladivostok, are conducting disaster relief operations in Tokyo unless the Japanese have turned them away.

The Mediterranean Squadron is supporting the Spanish Navy in suppressing the Falangista Uprising. A Division of the Red Army has also been relocated to Spain to assist in the same operation.

Two Divisions of the Red Army have been dispatched as peacekeepers to the Yugoslav/Albanian border. They will be passing entirely through German and Yugoslavian sovereign territory in order to get there.

Hungarian Troop Movements:

All three Crown Guard Divisions are moved to Budapest to supress uprisings by conservative elements there. The Mobile Corps (3 Light Divisions, mix of calvary and motorized units) has been moved from Budapest to the Kecskemet area.

Hungarian Military

Army:

Formation Location
1st Army Kolozsvar
2nd Army Budapest
3rd Army Pecs
I. Army Corps Budapest
II. Army Corps Szekesfehervar
III. Army Corps Szombathely
IV. Army Corps Pecs
V. Army Corps Szeged
VI. Army Corps Debrecen
VII. Army Corps Miskolc
VIII. Army Corps Kassa
IX. Army Corps Kolozsvar
Mobile Corps Budapest
The Nine Corps areas of Hungary each raise three Dandar or Light Divisions, each with one front-line infantry regiment and one reserve infantry regiment, each of three battalions; a two battalion artillery regiment of 24 guns; a cavalry troop, anti-aircraft company, and a signals company. The Corps themselves also have one motor/calvary infantry battalion, often mounted on bikes, as well as anti-aircraft, engineer and signals battalions. As well as these units, Hungary also fielded Mountain and Border Guard brigades, labour battalions, so-called "Life Guard", Crown Guard, and Parliament Guard units.

Air Force:
Help Wanted!!!!

Navy:
Danube Naval Flotilla

[OoC: There's a huge background to this in the Yugoslavian Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=440871&page=8&pp=15)]

You cannot predict with such certainty the outcome of a military campaign. Do not even try to pretend to me that this is possible. You are evading justice and obstructing the peace process in an attempt to illegally seize the historically Serbian land of Kosovo. You have not answered any of the Council's concerns openly or honorably. The only obstruction to a solution is Tirana, which protects its terrorists behind the human shields of Albanian refugees. It sickens me, frankly.

You will permit French peacekeepers to do their jobs - which is to keep the peace, by effectively dealing with threats to it. Or the consequences will be dire for the current Albanian Government.

The Mediterranean Squadron of the Red Fleet is already returning from Spain to blockade the Albanian coast.

If you refuse, Red Army units will be ordered to fire on any Albanian that comes within range of our guns. After all, any of them might be a terrorist, and we must do whatever we can to keep the peace. And let me assure you, Mr. President, the range of our guns is long.

This is your final warning. Moscow has lost all patience with your obstinacy.

- Premier N.I. Bukharin, Union of Social-Democratic Republics

Current Palestinian Armed Forces

Army

8 Infantry Divisions

4 Cavalry Divisions w/ 3 attatched Armored Car brigades

10 (count 'em!) FT-17 Tanks

Long Range Desert Combat Group

Army Air Corp
32 Assorted aircraft, mainly of French design

Navy

3 Protected Crusiers, 9 old French Destroyers

The Ottoman Arm forces
As of early 1924 to late 1926

The Ottoman Army- A Single Army Crops can be at 5,000 troops at its lowest and 10,000 troop at max.
Army Core as of 1924, the standing army
300,000 troops (100 percent fully trained)
Number of Army corps: 60 Army corps at the moment.
400,000 Reservist corps (only call to duty in times of war, well trained)

Note: Each Army Core is assign a battalion of Amour cars, battalion of artillery and a Machine gun battalion.

Deployments of the Ottoman Army Corps

10 Army Corps Station in Egypt
12 Army Corps Station in Iran
10 Army Corps Station in Arabia
8 Army Corps Station in Syria/Lebanon
8 Army Corps Station in Iraq
12 Army Corps Station in Asia Minor

Ottoman Marine Corps-100,000 troops(well trained)
Ten Divisions-10,000 each

Three Divisions Station in Asia Minor
Five Divisions Station in Egypt
Two Divions station in Syria/Lebanon


Ottoman Air Core
120 Scout Planes( mainly made of German build planes)
100 SE5a scout/fighter aircraft(British builded)

The Navy as of early 1924 to late 1926

Battleships

1 Dreadnought class battleships (built by the British, by 1911.set to be scapped by 1926)

1“Training Ship” Dreadnought class battleships (built by the British, by 1911, set to be scapped by 1926)

1 CAIO DUILIO CLASS Battleship(build by the Italians in 1922)

2 Conti di Cavour Battlecruiser( build by the Italians in 1922)

Carrier
Vittorio Emanuele class carrier( build by the Italians in 1907, rebuild as a Carrier in the 1910s and sold to Ottoman Navy by 1923)

Cruisers
4 Hawkins Class Heavy Cruisers(Build by the British, 1921)

6 Cruisers (build by the Germans, by 1915, set to be scapped by 1926)


Light Cruisers

8 Light Cruisers (build by the Germans, by 1915,set to be scapped by 1926)

6 Town Class Light Cruisers (Build by the British, 1922)

10 Danae Class Light Cruisers (Build by the British, 1922)

Destroyers
8 Destoryers(build by the Germans, by 1915,set to be scapped by 1926)

20 W Class Destroyers(Build by the British in 1921)

20 Destoryers(Build by the Italians in 1922)

Torpedo Boats
30 Torpedo Boats (build by the Germans, by 1915,set to be scapped by 1926)

Submarines
40 U-boats(made by the Germans in 1924.)

November 1923

The Red Fleet comes off station in Turkish waters, and takes up station in the Adriatic. Italian warships sighted near the Albanian coast will be warned off as being in violation of the Russo-Albanian agreement. If they enter Albanian waters they will be fired upon.

Those Russian warships are voilation of the Russo-Albanian ageement. As are the German troops trying to cross our border.

Those Russian warships are voilation of the Russo-Albanian ageement. As are the German troops trying to cross our border.
Russian warships are in International Waters, protecting the Russo-Albanian Agreement. German troops may be covered by Albanian law, but have nothing to do with Tirana's agreement with Moscow. That was unilateral on the part of Albania.

The Union is violating no law. Merely upholding them.

- Commissariat of Armed Struggle, USDR

Then tell the Germans and French to stop threatening our government.

OOC: I mean it, stop doing that, it is ruining the game for me. It is one thing to rp but you are picking on me.

Then tell the Germans and French to stop threatening our government.

OOC: I mean it, stop doing that, it is ruining the game for me. It is one thing to rp but you are picking on me.


I agree its ganging up but thats what its like in real life. You piss off one major power and you will be faced with a coalition of people wanting, in many cases, nothing more than combat experience. Thats the way it goes. I mean, in real life you can't just say leave me alone. Anyway, its sometimes pretty good having the odds stacked against you. I mean look at me, I've got probably the most powereful single nation in the world right now (America) just looking for excuses to invade me but I think its better to have powerful enemies in a game. At least its a challenge. But you gotta admit, threatening to confiscate such an iconic symbol of German Communism such as the railroad is bound to create some bad blood between yourself and Germany.

Everytime I do something it is war war war. Everytime I do not do something it is war war war. They do not even try economic or political pressure, like they would in RL. Just war war war! The Germans also stopped service on the railroad (hurting the Albanian economy and refugees, what do you think the government would do).

Its only a game mate. Have a nice British cup of tea. :fluffle: :fluffle:

I know it is a game but this hurts, I'm not allowed to enjoy myself! And I refuse to recognize the French and German actions as they are not realistic!

I'd like to point out that stopping the railroad was in itself economic pressure.

OOC: I will not recognize the French and German actions as they violate the realism policy! I demand you delet all references to attacking Albania! Or I will quite.

OOC: I go to sleep, and I wake up to find a mess. I'm not sure I've got all the facts, but it appears that Germany and France are rampaging through Albania at the moment.

IC:

THe entire Italian army is mobilising, the fleet is preparing to set sail, and Italy is pretty much on a wartime footing.

The main reason for this war is that Albania seized the stretch of the Trans-Eurasian railway that rns through Albania from Germany. Not sure if you wanna get involved...

OOC: I did not take it over, only suggested I would, then backed down. I do not recognize the current war against me.

OOC: The Albanian player refuses to recognize the French/German actions because they are not realistic:

1. It takes a week for paris to talk to it's peace-keepers (no telegraph lines in the North Eastern Mountains).

2. Germany did not try poltical pressure.

3. Albania did not touch the railroad, only made their intentions known to take it in January and then backed down.

4. The French will see little government pressence in the Eastern Mountains and know the Albanian government is not lieing when they say "that area is byound their control.

5. This current conflict could not result in armed conflict, it would be unrealistic for it to esculate further.

6. The French are peace-keepers and they cannot simply march into Tirana, they are in the Eastern Mountains. By the time Parliament was done debating the dispute would have passed.

7. The railroad was a matter of interanl politics and Germany over-reacted/ did nothing to solve what was essientialy a trade dispute. They instead threatened war, they only threaten war (and did not try to convince the Albanian courts they were wrong).

8. Everyone would know that moving against the Albanian government would only help the KLA (boost its support).

9. Had the Germans tried to cross the border they would have been mowed down by machine gun and artillary fire from entrenced postions!

10. War would cut off aid to the refugees and they would all starve.

11. Russia sent a fleet to blockade Albania to stop Italian troops which were not comming as Albania explained. The blockade would have taken to long to set up and by that time it would be clear no Italian troops were comming and the Albanian government was telling the truth!

12. This all takes place in a two week period, much to fast in for it to be realistic, especially with delays in communication and 1920s tech.

13. Everyone has been acting like the Albanian government and rebels are one, but they are not (they are just controled by the same person to make it easier on the mods>). Everyone has thus been unfair to me.

14. The French government, although Socialist, would not overthrow the Democratic government of Albania because it displeased the Germans.

15. It would take about a week (after the two weeks of talk) to get the spread out French force recollected.

16. The only reason everyone declared war was the railroad dispute, not a realistic conflict point. Also Albania backed down, within 24 hours (telegram to Berlin) and thus would have avoided conflict. The French parliament would have moved onto other bussiness and the Germans would have stood down. Because it would take three weeks for the French to get ready, war would not have broke out!

Navy:
15,000-16,000 Men
2 Coast defence battleships (Caterina, Ferdinand)
2 Small light cruisers (Anastacia, Maria-Louise)
10 Destroyers (Sofia, Varna Classes)
Several Minesweepers

Army (125,000 approxiately) and Air Force (1,000, mostly civilian at this time)are modern, professional and well equipped yet is still using supplies from other nations...

Military Service is voluntary between ages of 18 to around 40 for at least one tour of six months to a year...

OOC: To address several of your points:


1. Armies can put up their own telegraph wires as they move. It's a simple operation of running the appropriate wires back and tieing them into the telegraph system, so it would not take a "week" to talk with the government. (And if you won't accept that, then consider that we have planes which can take a message from Albania to Yugoslavia where there are permenant telegraph wires in amtter of hours.)

2. Germany gave you chance to renege on your threat to sieze the railway. YOu essentially told him off. here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9735734&postcount=48)

(See thread for details here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=442043&page=4&pp=15))

3. Intent is enough.

4. This may be true, but that does not mean the French care.

5. Yes, it could escalate. Anything can escalate given the right circumstances. There was a war fought over a soccer game in South America.

6. We are peacekeepers, that is true. And I'm not saying we can "just march" in. We will robably encounter armed resistance. It's up to the War Mod to decide.

7. Umm, what exactly did you expect Germany to do? Your courts already ruled that the railway was not "German property" and any challenge he made against that decision would be going up against your courts, which would be decidedly unpartial.

8. No we wouldn't. Explain this logic.

9. Once again, this is up to the war mods to decide.

10. It might, that's true. Does it neccessarily mean our governments care?

11. Why would the RUssians believe you?

12. Telegraphs move atthe speed of sound, at least. Then of course they must be taken by hand to the recipient, but it's pretty fast.

13. OOC we know this to be true and you have repeatedly told us OOC. However, our IC governments might not see it that way since your government has been, in general, uncooperative.

14. We can go to war whenever we want for whatever reasons, fabricated or true. You can't dictate what our government would or would not do.

15. They are as spread out as a division normally is when defending a front during a war.

16. The germans declared war after you refused to back down. You then backed down aftr a decleration of war had been issued. You are not a world power. Stop acting like one.

1. Armies can put up their own telegraph wires as they move. It's a simple operation of running the appropriate wires back and tieing them into the telegraph system, so it would not take a "week" to talk with the government. (And if you won't accept that, then consider that we have planes which can take a message from Albania to Yugoslavia where there are permenant telegraph wires in amtter of hours.).

There is also the time it takes the Parliament to meet, face it Albania would have answered the Germans before hand. You want a war for OOC reasons.


7. Umm, what exactly did you expect Germany to do? Your courts already ruled that the railway was not "German property" and any challenge he made against that decision would be going up against your courts, which would be decidedly unpartial.

I did not expect them to actually go to war over a railroad!


8. No we wouldn't. Explain this logic.

Attacking the Democratic government of Albania for no reason would only legitamize nationalist forces (plus the government would probaly ally with them/the 20,000 Albanian militia men who would take to the hills would work with them.



10. It might, that's true. Does it neccessarily mean our governments care?


The reason your government is there is to save lives! Your waging a war for OOC reasons!

Your government is only there for peacekeeping, not to wage war because of a dispute with the Germans.



12. Telegraphs move atthe speed of sound, at least. Then of course they must be taken by hand to the recipient, but it's pretty fast.

Yes so I would answer the Germans before they mobalized and before the French parliament had time to meet.


13. OOC we know this to be true and you have repeatedly told us OOC. However, our IC governments might not see it that way since your government has been, in general, uncooperative.

The French peace-keepers would clearly see that the Albanian government is unable to project power in the Eastern Mountains at present (with the refugee problem). And being uncooperative is not a reason for a war (particaly with Italy which has made clear they will defend Albania)


14. We can go to war whenever we want for whatever reasons, fabricated or true. You can't dictate what our government would or would not do.

It has to be realisticaly RP, in this case it was not, there are too many issues concerning time and realism (plus I do not want a war!)


15. They are as spread out as a division normally is when defending a front during a war. .

That is impossible in the Albanian mountains, they are spread out in rough areas with narrow paths and deep valleys!


16. The germans declared war after you refused to back down. You then backed down aftr a decleration of war had been issued. You are not a world power. Stop acting like one.
The issue would have been resolved before the Germans fully mobalized. The Germans declaring war for every little offense is unrealistic and just ruins the game! And I'm not being allowed to behave as a minor power! The smallest action I take is met with threats of WAR WAR WAR!

OOC: Just in case GB rule against me. This will happen should the French?German response be ruled valid (though it is not!)

IC: In the event of war the 11,000 troops careing for refugees will assume positions of defense in the border fortifications.

The Trans-Eurasian railway will be shelled and destroyed by border artillary.

The nation's 20,000 National Militia will be called up and take to the hills/mountains, harrassing any enemy forces (it has been in the process of being trained and armed for year).

The Government will declare martial law, suspend the Consititution, and draft every adult in Tirana and Vlore. They will be issued weapons (Albania has been buying weapons from Italy for about a year) and man the fortifications around the cities (which Italy has constructed). All food will be gathered up from the countryside. All roads leading to the coast will be mined (land mines have been purchased from Italy!)

Government officals in the Eastern Mountains will join forces with the KLA and launch an immediate attack on the French rear. 4000 Albanian soldiers will march up from the South to help them.

The German and French Embassies will be stormed in Tirana and the ambassadors taken prisoner (to be killed if Tirana is attacked).

There will be popular resistence. People will throw themselves down in frount of the French troops and take part in sabotage.

The German and French Embassies will be stormed in Tirana and the ambassadors taken prisoner (to be killed if Tirana is attacked).

ooc: Smooth. Real smooth.

I did not expect them to actually go to war over a railroad!
Isn't that your falt not theirs?

Attacking the Democratic government of Albania for no reason would only legitamize nationalist forces (plus the government would probaly ally with them/the 20,000 Albanian militia men who would take to the hills would work with them.
Lets face it, being a wandering gurilla fighter is a extremly tough life. How many of the soldiers would gladely return home if France or Germany offered them amnesty. Not every soldier wants to die fighting a war againts to of the biggest military powers.

Your government is only there for peacekeeping, not to wage war because of a dispute with the Germans.
Correction, they were there for peace keeping, now they are there to wage war ;)

The French peace-keepers would clearly see that the Albanian government is unable to project power in the Eastern Mountains at present (with the refugee problem). And being uncooperative is not a reason for a war (particaly with Italy which has made clear they will defend Albania)
Unfortunetly for you, politicians tend to be selectivly blind when it comes down to things like this.

It has to be realisticaly RP, in this case it was not, there are too many issues concerning time and realism (plus I do not want a war!)
Very true, but its up to the mods, not you to decide when a war is realistic. Personatly, I would start praying really hard right about now.

But since I'm not involved or a mod, these are just my opnions.

In Albania some hard decisions were made. The Army realized that they were about to conduct a gallant last stand as soon as spring came. Many officers were appalled by the governments backing of the rebels in Kosovo, who were committing atrocities. They were even more appalled because they realized that no one was going to save them except maybe the Italians, and as those were Russian ships offshore and not Italian ships, that looked hopeless.

There was only one thing to do. On Friday, December 23, elements of the army near the capital suddenly left their barracks and took up positions surrounding police stations. Other elements, generally intelligence officers and staff officers, went to the homes of the senior leaders of the government, backed up by troops and the few motor vehicles the government had. The Presidential Guard was surrounded in its barracks by artillery and infantry with machine guns and ordered to surrender. It swiftly did when it became clear that resistance was hopeless.

The President, and most of his senior leaders were killed as they rested in their beds or taken out and shot. By morning it was over. The commanders of the Army announced martial law on the radio as dawn broke over the mountains, and sent word to the Brazilian Embassy asking them to mediate a settlement.

Meanwhile orders went out to the army units on the border. Pull back 10 miles and secure all refugee compounds, and all villages. KLA members are to be ordered to surrender or shot if they resist. Captured KLA members will be held for trial for war crimes and murder.

This information is passed to the Brazilians to pass on to the Russians, French and Yugoslavs as well.

OOC
The Army is not interested in committing national suicide to save a bunch of bandits. It just spent a decade cleaning them out of their country, and they sure don't want to die defending new bandits who are worse than the ones they fought. They will fight if the French and Yugoslavs move past the 10 mile buffer zone, but only then. The Army mainly wants a deal that allows Albania to remain independent. The last straw was the order to storm the embassies.

Armestria, I am sorry, but this would certainly happen. Its not as if you have been invaded yet and had a chance to drum up a lot of nationalistic fervor. Your officers are going to be realistic, and competent, and smart enough to cut a deal to save the nation.

About your issue against my speed: I sent a telegram to the Left Hand HQ. Basically it was military. So only the High Command had to decide and frankly it wasn't a hard choice.

My troops have been mobilized since last night.

The Union immediately recognizes the new military Government of Albania.

In Albania some hard decisions were made. The Army realized that they were about to conduct a gallant last stand as soon as spring came. Many officers were appalled by the governments backing of the rebels in Kosovo, who were committing atrocities. They were even more appalled because they realized that no one was going to save them except maybe the Italians, and as those were Russian ships offshore and not Italian ships, that looked hopeless.

There was only one thing to do. On Friday, December 23, elements of the army near the capital suddenly left their barracks and took up positions surrounding police stations. Other elements, generally intelligence officers and staff officers, went to the homes of the senior leaders of the government, backed up by troops and the few motor vehicles the government had. The Presidential Guard was surrounded in its barracks by artillery and infantry with machine guns and ordered to surrender. It swiftly did when it became clear that resistance was hopeless.

The President, and most of his senior leaders were killed as they rested in their beds or taken out and shot. By morning it was over. The commanders of the Army announced martial law on the radio as dawn broke over the mountains, and sent word to the Brazilian Embassy asking them to mediate a settlement.

Meanwhile orders went out to the army units on the border. Pull back 10 miles and secure all refugee compounds, and all villages. KLA members are to be ordered to surrender or shot if they resist. Captured KLA members will be held for trial for war crimes and murder.

This information is passed to the Brazilians to pass on to the Russians, French and Yugoslavs as well.

OOC
The Army is not interested in committing national suicide to save a bunch of bandits. It just spent a decade cleaning them out of their country, and they sure don't want to die defending new bandits who are worse than the ones they fought. They will fight if the French and Yugoslavs move past the 10 mile buffer zone, but only then. The Army mainly wants a deal that allows Albania to remain independent. The last straw was the order to storm the embassies.

Armestria, I am sorry, but this would certainly happen. Its not as if you have been invaded yet and had a chance to drum up a lot of nationalistic fervor. Your officers are going to be realistic, and competent, and smart enough to cut a deal to save the nation.

I take several issues with that!

1. The Government (how many times due I have to say this) is not supporting the rebels! An alliance of convienence would be established if the French/Germans attack (and it would be without the premission of Tirana).

2. The army would not kill the President or senior government officals, they would simply put them under arrest.

3. If there is a way out of war the Present Government would AGREE! There has been no alternative to war given! IF there is, tell me, they don't want it but are being invaded for no reason!

I take several issues with that!

1. The Government (how many times due I have to say this) is not supporting the rebels! An alliance of convienence would be established if the French/Germans attack (and it would be without the premission of Tirana).

2. The army would not kill the President or senior government officals, they would simply put them under arrest.

3. If there is a way out of war the Present Government would AGREE! There has been no alternative to war given! IF there is, tell me, they don't want it but are being invaded for no reason!

Sorry, but the decision is final. We are talking about veteran combat officers who just spent the last 10 years putting down a rebellion under King Zog. They aren't going to stand for this. They have studied history and are well aware of the lessons of Paraguay in the 19th Century and the fate of the Austrian Hungarian Empire in this century. To fight this war would literally be national suicide and would result in the permanent annexation of Albania by Yugoslavia in their opinion.

Removing the government and seeking terms is the quickest way they see out of the mess and they are taking it. They also know that there is no way the outside world is going to buy that the Albanian government has not been supporting the rebels.

unless Sharina overrules it, the decision stands

I take several issues with that!

1. The Government (how many times due I have to say this) is not supporting the rebels! An alliance of convienence would be established if the French/Germans attack (and it would be without the premission of Tirana).

2. The army would not kill the President or senior government officals, they would simply put them under arrest.

3. If there is a way out of war the Present Government would AGREE! There has been no alternative to war given! IF there is, tell me, they don't want it but are being invaded for no reason!
THE WAR MODERATOR'S RULINGS ARE FINAL, AND CANNOT BE CHALLENGED BY ANYONE. IT SAYS SO IN THE MAIN POST QUITE CLEARLY. YOU ARE OUT, AMESTRIA. OUT.

Well, now that that's over...Let us move on to pastures green.

Socialism saves the world again? Or so the history books will say! :)

The Red Army's [OoC: de facto) Marine Corps, ordinarily stationed in the Far East, will be activated and shipped back West to Odessa, where they will rendezvous with the Mediterranean Squadron [OoC: Really, the Black Sea Squadron, but we call it the Mediterranean Squadron because it makes us feel more powerful] of the Red Fleet, for transport to Spain to assist the Government in suppressing the Falangista Rebels.

Socialism saves the world again? Or so the history books will say! :)


We could call it the, 'Red Rescue'

So thats why fire trucks are red :P

American submarines will be monitoring the Russian fleet as it visits the area, along with American seaplanes based out of Tangiers.

poison gas and fighter planes have just seen their first combat introduction in the Spanish Civil War. I suspect the first city is about to be bombed as well.

Incidently, most of the population of Cadiz are sympathitic to the Nationalists, but about 30% are simply terrorized and hoping they will survive. This presents an interesting problem to the Socialists.

In addition, the garrisons that held down Spanish Morocco were generally the long service regulars, and they would go with the Nationalists, so Spain will have to retake their colonies back as well.

With the dissolution of the Washington Naval Treaty, Chinese naval engineers have begun research and development of a naval vessel simply categorized as the battleship of all battleships.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/Magic/ComInt-1924-41/img/ComInt-4.jpg

Guozu Class Battle-Battleship (BBB)

Displacement:

66,000 tons (empty, including 22,000 tons of armour)
76,000 tons (estimated, full load)

Length: 256 m (water-line)
Beam: 36 m
Draught: 11 m (maximum)

Propulsion: 12 boilers, driving 4 steam turbines, 150,000 shp (110 MW)
Speed: 27 knots (50 km/h)
Range: 11,500 km at 16 knots (30 km/h)
Crew Complement: 2,750

Armour:

650mm on front of turrets, 400mm side armour, 200mm armoured deck

Armament:

1. Nine 18 inch (460 mm) guns (triple × 3 turrets)
2. Twelve 10 inch (254 mm) guns (triple × 4 turrets)
3. Twenty-four 4 inch (102 mm) guns (dual x 12 turrets)
4. Twenty-four 1 inch (25 mm) AA guns.
5. Eight 1/2 inch (13 mm) AA guns.
6. Forty torpedo launchers.

The first Guozu Battleship is not expected to be completed until between 1928 - 1930. Once completed, these beasts will provide China with a powerful battleship package that will be able to combat entire flotillas and emerge victorious.


-----------------------------
OOC:

Chinese fortune cookies to anyone who can figure what this is based off from. ;)

With the dissolution of the Washington Naval Treaty, Chinese naval engineers have begun research and development of a naval vessel simply categorized as the battleship of all battleships.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/Magic/ComInt-1924-41/img/ComInt-4.jpg

Guozu Class Battleship

Displacement:

66,000 tons (empty, including 22,000 tons of armour)
76,000 tons (estimated, full load)

Length: 256 m (water-line)
Beam: 36 m
Draught: 11 m (maximum)

Propulsion: 12 boilers, driving 4 steam turbines, 150,000 shp (110 MW)
Speed: 27 knots (50 km/h)
Range: 11,500 km at 16 knots (30 km/h)
Crew Complement: 2,750

Armour:

650mm on front of turrets, 400mm side armour, 200mm armoured deck

Armament:

1. Nine 18 inch (460 mm) guns (triple × 3 turrets)
2. Twelve 10 inch (254 mm) guns (triple × 4 turrets)
3. Twenty-four 4 inch (102 mm) guns (dual x 12 turrets)
4. Twenty-four 1 inch (25 mm) AA guns.
5. Eight 1/2 inch (13 mm) AA guns.
6. Forty torpedo launchers.

The first Guozu Battleship is not expected to be completed until between 1928 - 1930. Once completed, these beasts will provide China with a powerful battleship package that will be able to combat entire flotillas and emerge victorious.


-----------------------------
OOC:

Cookies to anyone who can figure what this is based off from. ;)

that is a bit ambitious for China at this point... and the Yamato didn't have torpedo launchers. Nor did it carry 10 inch guns. This ship will take a decade to build, at least, and will be a lot heavier than you have budgeted for tonnage wise based on armament and armor. Closer to 110,000 tons, and a speed of about 15 knots based on the power plant.

It will also take you at least that amount of time to develop 18 inch guns, since at this point, even 16 guns are rare and only available to the four biggest naval powers (US, UK, Japan and Germany)

It will also take at least 2 years to build a big enough shipyard for this thing.

Ambition = good.

Galveston Bay gets a Chinese fortune cookie. ;)

--------------------------

EDIT:

I know its a huge project. However, I said it was being researched and developed, not exactly build-to-go like other ships.

I probably have access to the technology and the know-how to make 16 inch guns from Germany. So my engineers would have ample time to research materials and building processes for a 18 inch gun between now and the time the ship's hull is finished building.

I could start building the necessary shipyard, and have it done by around 1926. That's no problem at all.

As for the ship being finished, I expect the hull itself to be completed by maybe 1930 - 1932, then add the 18 inch guns and all the "acessories" by 1933 or so.

By then, we'd probably have our World War 2. However, if it happens earlier, then my ship could possibly be finished earlier- war economies get war materials researched, developed, built, and deployed considerably faster than a peace-time economy.

closer to 1936 for a completion date by my estimate... the Yamato had a lot of problems during construction. For one thing, they had to build a crane big enough to handle the 18 inch gun turrets. For realism, please just build a copy of the Yamato, which will take 10 years. In any case, this monster will end up being as obsolescent as all of the other battleships by the time its done.

closer to 1936 for a completion date by my estimate... the Yamato had a lot of problems during construction. For one thing, they had to build a crane big enough to handle the 18 inch gun turrets. For realism, please just build a copy of the Yamato, which will take 10 years. In any case, this monster will end up being as obsolescent as all of the other battleships by the time its done.

Ah okay.

Perhaps not so obsolete if I can put them to coastal bombardment. I recall during the Korea or Vietnam war, the US used battleships to bombard the enemy coastlines. Then the US remodeled the Iowa class battleships and put them back in service- I recall we still have them operating today.

No battleship is still being used, as the Iowa class was last used in the Persian gulf war, and we saw that is was doing the same job as a Missle-Destroyer, shooting cruise missles. It only cost several times more to operate :P

No battleship is still being used, as the Iowa class was last used in the Persian gulf war, and we saw that is was doing the same job as a Missle-Destroyer, shooting cruise missles. It only cost several times more to operate :P

Ah, but don't forget the pyschological effect of a giant battleship bombing the hell out of the enemy. ;)

-------------------------------------------
Revised stuff...

With the dissolution of the Washington Naval Treaty, Chinese naval engineers have begun research and development of a naval vessel simply categorized as the battleship of all battleships.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/Magic/ComInt-1924-41/img/ComInt-4.jpg

Guozu Class Battle-Battleship (BBB)

Displacement:

66,000 tons (empty, including 22,000 tons of armour)
76,000 tons (estimated, full load)

Length: 256 m (water-line)
Beam: 36 m
Draught: 11 m (maximum)

Propulsion: 12 boilers, driving 4 steam turbines, 150,000 shp (110 MW)
Speed: 27 knots (50 km/h)
Range: 11,500 km at 16 knots (30 km/h)
Crew Complement: 2,750

Armour:

650mm on front of turrets, 410mm side armour, 200mm armoured deck

Armament:

1. Nine 18 inch (460 mm) guns (triple × 3 turrets)
2. Twelve 6 inch (155 mm) guns (triple x 4 turrets)
3. Twenty-four 1 inch (25 mm) AA guns.
4. Eight 1/2 inch (13 mm) AA guns.
5. Forty torpedo launchers.

The first Guozu Battleship is not expected to be completed until between 1932 - 1936. Once completed, these beasts will provide China with a powerful battleship package that will be able to combat entire flotillas and emerge victorious.


-----------------------------
OOC:

I decided to keep the torpedo launchers in- the RL Yamato had 7 aircraft, so if I replace the 7 aircraft and the infrastructure on the Yamato to support the aircraft, I could mount the torpedo tubes or possibly a few more AA guns.

Ah, but don't forget the pyschological effect of a giant battleship bombing the hell out of the enemy. ;)

-------------------------------------------
Revised stuff...

With the dissolution of the Washington Naval Treaty, Chinese naval engineers have begun research and development of a naval vessel simply categorized as the battleship of all battleships.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/Magic/ComInt-1924-41/img/ComInt-4.jpg

Guozu Class Battle-Battleship (BBB)

Displacement:

66,000 tons (empty, including 22,000 tons of armour)
76,000 tons (estimated, full load)

Length: 256 m (water-line)
Beam: 36 m
Draught: 11 m (maximum)

Propulsion: 12 boilers, driving 4 steam turbines, 150,000 shp (110 MW)
Speed: 27 knots (50 km/h)
Range: 11,500 km at 16 knots (30 km/h)
Crew Complement: 2,750

Armour:

650mm on front of turrets, 410mm side armour, 200mm armoured deck

Armament:

1. Nine 18 inch (460 mm) guns (triple × 3 turrets)
2. Twelve 6 inch (155 mm) guns (triple x 4 turrets)
3. Twenty-four 1 inch (25 mm) AA guns.
4. Eight 1/2 inch (13 mm) AA guns.
5. Forty torpedo launchers.

The first Guozu Battleship is not expected to be completed until between 1932 - 1936. Once completed, these beasts will provide China with a powerful battleship package that will be able to combat entire flotillas and emerge victorious.


-----------------------------
OOC:

I decided to keep the torpedo launchers in- the RL Yamato had 7 aircraft, so if I replace the 7 aircraft and the infrastructure on the Yamato to support the aircraft, I could mount the torpedo tubes or possibly a few more AA guns.


OOC: your going to build Yamato's, so it looks like I'm going to have to. also

i thought what had happened to the Yamato and the Musashi would be enough to keep people from making them, guess that was too much to hope for :( At least we hopefully won't see the Bismarck.

i thought what had happened to the Yamato and the Musashi would be enough to keep people from making them, guess that was too much to hope for :( At least we hopefully won't see the Bismarck.

IC'ly our nations have no idea what will happen to these battleships in RL. In our alternate history, battleships may still go strong by 1940 or even 1950.

For all our alternate history nations know, battleships is the ultimate solution to the naval warfare. They have little idea about RL WW 2 style of aircraft bombing naval vessels and such.

OOC: your going to build Yamato's, so it looks like I'm going to have to. also

Right now, nobody other than China knows about the "Yamato" type of battleship being built. Right now its in the research / planning stages, so probably the first time foreign nations will know about China's Guozu class battleship (based off the Yamato) would probably be 1930 or so, when the ship hull is actually more visible and evident to air patrols and such.

So don't count on nations knowing about the Chinese Battle-Battleship (BBB) until then. The hull / keel hasn't even been laid down- won't even be started until 1926 when I have the shipyard to build it finished building.

Secret IC:
--------------------------------

With the dissolution of the Washington Treaty, and the inevitable large arms race that is believed to occur immediately, the Chinese High Command has decided to attempt a bold new leap forward in naval doctrine. Chinese engineers, scientists, and military tacticians meet in secret in Luo Yang on April 17, 1924, with the attendance of the Chinese Emperor. It was decided that a tremendous leap forward would be necessary to match or surpass the American, British, and Japanese massive naval battleships that would most likely be built in mass quantities in the next decade or two.

Engineers determined that the new Chinese battleship would be required to have massive armor, to deflect most, if not all, conventional weapons in use at the time, including 12 to 14 inch, and possibly even the 16 inch guns. Towards this end, the ship itself will have nearly 1/3 of its total tonnage devoted to armor, an unprecedented amount in the annals of naval history. Some numbers were discussed, with armor thickness ranging between 250mm to as high as 500mm.

Scientists have determined that the amount of armor needed would require a battleship chassis substantially larger than any that have been built, possibly in excess of 45,000 tons. They also made determinations that to drive such a massive chassis, enormous engines and muscle would be required.

Engineers and military tacticans discussed possible armanents on the vessel. They reached an agreement to attempt to develop a 18 inch gun, which would be more than able to punch through the heaviest battleship armor currently in existence, and have the ability to fire further than a 16 inch gun, giving the battleship increased range over its American, British, and Japanese counterparts. It was determined through exhaustive formulae and analysis that the maximum efficient gun barrel on a naval ship would be a 24 inch gun before the shell's weight begins to degrade its own range and efficiency. However, a general consesus was reached that a 24 inch gun would be nigh-impossible to fabricate or develop at this time, and the idea for a 24 inch gun was to be shelved for at least two decades until sufficient technologies could be discovered to even attempt construction of such monstrous cannons. Therefore an agreement was re-affirmed that China will attempt to construct more viable 18 inch cannons instead.

The Emperor then decreed that this new battleship shall be known as the Guozu Battleship to bring forth his will upon China's enemies. He also set a goal for the Guozu battleship to reach 75,000 tons at full load-out. He believes that if such a massive battleship was to be built, it would be an imposing sight, and perhaps could even be used as a pyschological weapon aganist any enemies of China.

Further discussions took place for several more hours before it was decided that China will build three 100,000 ton capacity shipyards capable of constructing such massive beasts. One shipyard would be built in each of the three major port cities of Shanghai, Tianjin, and Guangzhou. The date for the completion of these docks was to be marked for no later than 1926.

Everyone in the conference agrees that having three massive shipyards would give China a much needed boost in naval production of conventional warships, should the need arise for rapid production of warships. A general agreement is also reached that the timetable for the completion of the first Guozu Battle-Battleship (BBB) was to be in the mid-1930's, given the massive undertaking needed to research and construction of such a massive beast.

The top-level secret conference concluded with a bold new determination of China to match or even surpass the major powers of the world, lest it be thrust back into a back-water status, a lesson hard learned from the previous century.

---------------------------------
Revelant information:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9747173&postcount=453

Vas Pokhoronim, acting on behalf of both the Union Supreme Council abd the Revolutionary High Command.

Every mine available has been laid off the beaches and in the roadstead, and the last Nationalist motorboats are finally sunk after driving off repeated attempts by the enemy to check for mines.

Several transports and several dozen small craft are offshore as well, as dawn breaks, the small craft head toward the shore, crowded with French and Russian marines (6,000 in all, in 12 assault battalions).

It was a textbook perfect assault, and something new in the annals of warfare, for even as the paratroopers and marines came in, the infantry ringing the city stormed toward their objectives.

A picture perfect scene, until the Nationalists opened fire and the first landing craft hit the first mine.

Then it became chaos.

No one had ever conducted an amphibious assault against a defended beach in modern history, and the reason became clear why it was risky when nearly 30 landing craft were blown apart by mines or hit by shell fire before they even reached the shore. Nearly 100 more were damaged, and in all only 50 boats managed to reach shore undamaged. Their Marines stumbled out, and in some cases found that they had only reached a sand bar and water chest deep or higher was between them and the actual beach. Not a single boat actually made it into the harbor, and the warships offshore fired as best they could, but without communications, they couldn't reach hidden batteries.

Of the 6,000 Russian and French marines who started, only 1,000 were still on their feet after the first hour. With their leaders mostly dead, without communications, and most of them scattered and disorganized, they could only cling to the beach and hope someone else won the battle and rescued them.

At the end of the battle, only 600 Marines and 1,000 Paratroopers would walk out, and most of them were wounded. The rest were dead or missing.


OoC: Well that sucked.

IC
The entire Red Army Marine Corps, dead and living, is declared "Vanguard of the Revolution" by the Union Supreme Council, a decoration is minted for them, and the survivors and their families (and the families of the fallen) are extended a number of special privileges by legislation. [OoC: I guess the Communists just invented a knighthood . . . how interesting.] Those who performed particularly well, of course, are granted the order of "Hero of the Revolution."

All survivors are interviewed as to their perspectives and positions in the battle, and their input is taken into account for future operations. Those who remain in the military after this (after taking such losses, any who wish are allowed to retire) are promoted to noncoms and officers, and made into a cadre for the new Workers' Red Army Assault Corps, which will include both Marines and Paratroopers, both Russians and Germans, and will be open to recruitment only to troops which have seen active duty, and voluntarily at that (recruitment will be incentive-driven, at least at first - if shortfalls are too large, we'll experiment with other methods).

OOC
War moderator
Errr... NOT so fast. You have not geared up production to the point were producing more than 2 or 3 submarines a month is possible. It also takes at least a year to train the crew for a submarine, and you don't have anywhere like those numbers in the pipeline either. In a year you can get up to 5 submarines a month, with their crews, and in three years you can reach World War II levels of production (10 boats a month).

This will also be expensive... here is how much a World War II era submarine costs .. your best boats will be at the low end of this, so figure $1 million each boat

Type II- 52 boats at $1.03 million.

Type VII- 705 boats at $2.25 million.

Type IX- 194 boats at $ 3.2 million.

Type XB- 8 boats at $ 3.175 million.

Type XIV- 10 boats at $ 3.51 million.

Type XXI- 123 boats at $ 2.875 million.

Type XXIII- 59 boats at $1.03 million.

and thats per boat
source
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/submarines/centennial/wwii-campaigns.html

That kind of production was during the height of World War II, under Total Mobilization conditions, and with U-Boats having a priority higher than the Wehrmacht.

It also costs roughly the same price to train the crew as it does to build the boat. A fleet of 1000 submarines is going to bankrupt you damn quick in peacetime, or force you to to go wartime mobilization, which will wreck your economy long term.
The Union is going to start expanding its undersea fleet, as well, since our strategic planners don't believe that surface fleet could be good enough or strong enough to justify the expense.

Unfortunately, I have no head for numbers, so I don't know what's possible for me to build. I want a lot of subs in the Baltic and the Black (and the Pacific, though they'll have to be shipped overland), and some coastal defense battleships and maybe a few more cruisers (also in both seas).

I also to fortify all possible landing sites in Union territory (mostly Petrograd, Odessa, and Vladivostok), the passes to Afghanistan, the Manchurian border (since the Japanese might try an attack that way), and Swedish border. GB already knows my plans at Nord Kapp.

I have a large untapped labor force from the Ukrainian Drought, so that ought to help with building up the military-industrial complex. More on that later and the Economics Thread.

Further to previous naval expansion, Britain lays keels for 5 new aircraft carriers. They will be of a similar type to the existing HMS Hermes they are to be known as HMS Poseidon, HMS Ares, HMS Athena, HMS Hephaestus and HMS Apollo. This class will now be know as the Olympian class with plans for a further 6 vessels of teh same class will also be drawn up for future production.

The Army also undergoes a period of expansion with all of the colonies providing a tithe of their militia for overseas service. These forces can only be called out with a warrant signed by the Prime Minister or his deputy in times of extreme need. This will be 50% of their strength and these units will recieve extra training accordingly and will also be provided with the standard regular army issue Lee Enfield no.1 Mk. 6 rifles. The following militias consist of the following strengths:

German East Africa - 15 battalions
Hong Kong (On lease from China until 1997) - 4 battalions
Christmas Island - 1 company
British Honduras - 4 battalion
British Guiana - 6 battalions
Gambia - 6 battalions
Sierra Leone - 8 battalions
Gold Coast - 10 battalions
Nigeria - 25 battalions
South Rhodesia - 15 battalions
North West Rhodesia -10 battalions
North East Rhodesia - 10 battalions
British East Africa - 10 battalions
Anglo-Egyptian Sudan - 35 battalions
Egypt - 25 battalions
British Somaliland - 15 battalions
Oman - 6 battalions
Kuwait - 2 battalions
Aden - 2 companies
India - DOMINION
Burma - 20 battalions
Malaya - 6 battalions
Sarawak - 4 battalions
Brunei - 3 battalions
North Borneo - 3 battalions
New Zealand - DOMINION
Jamaica - 10 battalions
Gibraltar - 3 battalions
British Central Africa - 3 battalions
Ceylon - 2 battalions
Malta - 2 battalions
Cyprus - 3 battalions
The Falkland Islands - 2 companies
New Hebrides - 2 companies
Maldive Islands - 2 companies
Italian Somaliland - 2 battalions
Eritrea - 2 battalions
Afghanistan -12 battalions
Western Samoa - 2 battalions
Chatham Islands - 2 companies
Kermadec Islands - 2 companies
Soloman Islands - 2 companies
Vanatu Islands - 1 company
Tuvalu Islands - 1 company
Fiji Islands - 2 companies
Tonga Islands - 1 company
Nive Island - 1 company
Tokelau Islands - 2 companies
Phoenix Islands -1 company
Gilbert Islands - 2 companies
Cook Islands - 2 companies
Line Islands - 2 companies
Christmas Island Chain - 2 companies
Pitcairn Islands - 1 platoon
American Samoa - 2 companies
Palau - 1 company
Naura - 2 company
South Aden - 2 battalions

The regular military is also rejuvinated with an advertising campaign initiated and pay rates lifted to attract more recruits.

The Military Intelligence departments also begin recruiting in secret by approaching post graduate university students.

The Italian military, concerned about the military buildup of pretty much everyone, has responded by (secretly) planning a new class of carriers. This will be the first purpose-built Italian carrier, though there were two battleship conversions. One of those has been sold to the Turks, and so Italy has but one carrier.

On land, there is more interesting stuff going on. Artillery is being ordered, with the intention being to correct the shortfall that Italy historically had in WWI. A few tanks and armored cars are being bought, but then again, Italy's warplan is "hold the Alps for all eternity." I'll t-gram GB some more specifics. Fortifications from WWI still dot the German border, and a few new fortifications are on the French border.

Libya is pretty much lacking fortifications. Its walls are Italian arms, combined with local fighters, and a road runs from the French border to the Egyptian one. I'm assuming there are rail connections to Egypt, and that there are road connections with French North Africa.

In addition to hte new battleship keel being laid out the French have begun construction on another carrier and have accordingly scrapped several old destroyers and a cruiser. They plan to use the material to construct the carrier.

They have also begun extensive testing of torpedo bombers and carriers.

There is also, reportedly, a new tank in the works which may be released soon.

The Red Fleet Pacific Squadron will rendezvous with the French in the East China Sea, for escort to Vladivostok.

The Med Squadron is still off the coast of Spain, outside Cadiz. Along with some French and German forces. What do we have there total?

The Red Fleet has

3 Nikoleyev class battleships (Nikoleyev, Paris Commune, Volya), 24,000 tons, 21 knots, 12 x 12 inch guns, 12 x 4.7 inch guns, (speed sacrificed for more armor) short ranged, but good protection, speed, and good firepower for its size

6 Provorny class light cruisers (Provorny, Obraztsovy, Odarenny, Otvazhny, Steregushchy, Reshitelny) 4,500 tons, 30 knots, 8 x 4.7 inch, 8 x torpedo tubes, designed as destroyer leaders, short ranged, but fast, good protection and firepower.

6 destroyer squadrons (30 destroyers)

and

10 submarines

The Battleships New York and Texas, strongly escorted by 5 destroyers each, steam from Tangiers and take up station just outside the harbors of Ceuta and Melilla.

I think we can take 'em.

China currently has 2 Battleships completed, about 6 - 8 cruisers, 20 destroyers, and a lot of Patrol Boats / Coast Patrol ships. All these ships were built at the Shanghai, Tienstin, and Canton shipyards which were built with the help of Italy and Britain right after the first Great War.

I think I posted those stats / scheducle for ship completion a couple weeks ago when I put up my Navy ship stats and such.

as War Moderator...

ok, official dates are as follows: Russian Stiff Note: July 14, 1924,
US Response: July 15
Russian Response, and all other responses: July 16
French Declaration of War (yes, they started it) August July 17
Anyone else would be July 18 or later

INSTRUCTIONS:
Please post where your forces are concentrated.. example: Russia concentrates its fleet in West Med, Sea of Okhotsk, Armies mobilize in Polish, Ukranian, Western and Siberian Military districts.

RESEARCH YOUR ARMY... You will field the forces your country historically fielded in World War I as it is only 1924. That is the maximum size of your army both at the start (look at 1914 starting forces) and mid war is your peak size (1916 forces). Only exceptions are Germany, where I will incorporate a portion of the Austrian Army, and the US, which has built up differently in this time line. Other exceptions are the Latin American nations for various reasons as well.

You post where your forces are, than you telegram me what you want them to do. Oddly enough, that will sometimes lead to a conflict as your opponent plans something as well. I will be fair on results, however, if you are unhappy with the results, you may ask for explanation.

I will determine if your army is reasonable or not. Air Forces, figure 1916 sized air forces for everyone involved at this point, and if you don't have planes listed, I will determine what you are flying. Only Germany, Russia, Britian, France, Austria, Czechslovakia, the United States and Japan can build military aircraft at war start, although China and Colombia are working on it.

Germany, I want an absolute figure on how many Zeppelins you have, what kind they are , and where they are. No one has had a chance to build anything beyond the Washington Naval Treaty yet, as it just ended two months ago.

Tanks production at this point is restricted to US, Britian, Germany, Russia, Czechslovakia, France, and Colombia. Japan is working on it, and so is China.

NOBODY is ready at this point. No one has ammunition stocks built up, or transports in large quantities, or landing craft in large numbers except for the US (landing craft) and the big merchant fleets (which are Britian, USA, Norway, Netherlands, Germany, Japan and Greece pretty much in that order).

The LTA actually has a War Plan, and has been preparing for the last three years for the contigency of France being on the wrong side. Ribenia, Clan and I have discussed it repeatedly.

NO ACTION WILL OCCUR UNTIL TOMORROW, as we need to give everyone a chance to respond, and some players live in time zones far removed from each other.

Colombia will be mobilizing its two carriers, escorted by three Battlecruisers, four cruisers, and several destroyers. The Carriers have a 50/50 mix of TC1B's and TC1C's, the B varient capable of carrying torpedoes.

The Colombian armed forces are being mobilized as a whole, with the airforce recieving additional funds to aquire more aircraft or speed up the process of developing new ones.

Tanks production at this point is restricted to US, Britian, Germany, Russia, Czechslovakia, France, and Colombia. Japan is working on it, and so is China.


What of my Tank research? I do believe I RPed the development of Tanks.

OOC:

I do have military aircraft. Galveston Bay recongized my C-9 Yang airplane a couple of weeks ago, as well as me having a few heavy ships by 1924 / 25. I believe that all of this was cleared up and established after I posted my plane and navy stuff a couple weeks ago.

OOC:

I do have military aircraft. Galveston Bay recongized my C-9 Yang airplane a couple of weeks ago, as well as me having a few heavy ships by 1924 / 25. I believe that all of this was cleared up and established after I posted my plane and navy stuff a couple weeks ago.

I really can't post till this time tomorrow cause im working on some stuff and will be out but consider me to be starting to mobilise my army and my economy to be once again on war footing. Shall post more tomorrow.

yes, China does have aircraft in small numbers, as do the Colombians. By the way China, you are about to have a serious problem getting oil.

Gb wouldn't Australia be able to produce small numbers of planes since a few US aircraft companies built production facilities in Australia?

Other than that my navy is currently between Australia and Australia Papua. (One battleship, fifteen destroyers, 35 submarines and dozens of smaller torpedoe boats.) My army is being mobilized and all reserves are being called up. Long range recon aircraft based in Guinea and northern Australia have begun patrolling the ocean looking for French, Chinese and Russian ships. A small number of submarines and torpedo boats have also been sent out to sink any ships belonging to those nations.

yes, China does have aircraft in small numbers, as do the Colombians. By the way China, you are about to have a serious problem getting oil.


Couldn't it just be shiped to him via the Trans-Eurasian railroad?

Gb wouldn't Australia be able to produce small numbers of planes since a few US aircraft companies built production facilities in Australia?

Other than that my navy is currently between Australia and Australia Papua. (One battleship, fifteen destroyers, 35 submarines and dozens of smaller torpedoe boats.) My army is being mobilized and all reserves are being called up. Long range recon aircraft based in Guinea and northern Australia have begun patrolling the ocean looking for French, Chinese and Russian ships. A small number of submarines and torpedo boats have also been sent out to sink any ships belonging to those nations.

yes, Australia can build planes in small numbers. US asks you to prepare to carry out war Plan (telegram me for what that is). The Netherlands are neutral, however, French Vietnam has declared war against the US, and under LTA that means you and Britian too.

My fleet and troop deployments are in the main thread. See the French thread for aircraft.

Couldn't it just be shiped to him via the Trans-Eurasian railroad?

yes, but at an immense cost in time, railroad locomotives needed, and rolling stock tied up, and a nasty drain on the German and Russian economy.

yes, but at an immense cost in time, railroad locomotives needed, and rolling stock tied up, and a nasty drain on the German and Russian economy.

I'm allies with the Ottomans so I should be able to get my hands on oil. :confused:

I'm allies with the Ottomans so I should be able to get my hands on oil. :confused:


Hows it going to get there?

I'm allies with the Ottomans so I should be able to get my hands on oil. :confused:

Depends if you go to war. Your oil is coming by sea, as it is hugely cheaper than shipping it by rail. China goes to war, and those tankers will have to travel from Persia to China in the teeth of LTA naval forces. Otherwise, you have to request help from the Germans and Russians in shipping it by rail, and that will be a drag on all three of your economies.

No oil pipelines yet except very short ones from production fields to storage areas.

I'm allies with the Ottomans so I should be able to get my hands on oil. :confused:
China, I have to ship it to you, by going thought a lot of unfriendly waters...so your oil supply from me is going to have a hard time getting thought all the blockades and etc, just to give you heads up.

Would this be a realistic army size for Bolivia:

Infantry:

1st Division: 10,000 men
2nd Division: 10,000 men
3rd Division: 10,000 men
4th Division: 10,000 men
5th Division: 5,000 men

Infantry Reserves:

1st Division: 10,000

Cavalry:

1st Division: 10,000 men

Bolivia, acceptable, but should be half reservists.

Fixed.

The Union is going to start expanding its undersea fleet, as well, since our strategic planners don't believe that surface fleet could be good enough or strong enough to justify the expense.

Unfortunately, I have no head for numbers, so I don't know what's possible for me to build. I want a lot of subs in the Baltic and the Black (and the Pacific, though they'll have to be shipped overland), and some coastal defense battleships and maybe a few more cruisers (also in both seas).

I also to fortify all possible landing sites in Union territory (mostly Petrograd, Odessa, and Vladivostok), the passes to Afghanistan, the Manchurian border (since the Japanese might try an attack that way), and Swedish border. GB already knows my plans at Nord Kapp.

I have a large untapped labor force from the Ukrainian Drought, so that ought to help with building up the military-industrial complex. More on that later and the Economics Thread.

Figure 1 submarine a month initially from Baltic and Black Sea ports, then up to 5 a month after 6 months. You can ship any number a month by rail to the Pacific, subject to other transportation problems if any.

China, I have to ship it to you, by going thought a lot of unfriendly waters...so your oil supply from me is going to have a hard time getting thought all the blockades and etc, just to give you heads up.

Understood.

However, China hasn't declared war on anyone yet, so consquently there won't be any major blockades of China unless the blockaders want war with China.

Gb wouldn't Australia be able to produce small numbers of planes since a few US aircraft companies built production facilities in Australia?

Other than that my navy is currently between Australia and Australia Papua. (One battleship, fifteen destroyers, 35 submarines and dozens of smaller torpedoe boats.) My army is being mobilized and all reserves are being called up. Long range recon aircraft based in Guinea and northern Australia have begun patrolling the ocean looking for French, Chinese and Russian ships. A small number of submarines and torpedo boats have also been sent out to sink any ships belonging to those nations.

Note the bold emphasis I made.

I guess this means the LTA actually declares war on China, not the other way around. Therefore, the LTA are the aggressors aganist China. This can only leave one recourse of action.

War.

China will have to declare war aganist Australia for sinking Chinese ships while China has been neutral. China has not declared war aganist anyone until this event occurred with Australia.

Note the bold emphasis I made.

I guess this means the LTA actually declares war on China, not the other way around. Therefore, the LTA are the aggressors aganist China. This can only leave one recourse of action.

War.

China will have to declare war aganist Australia for sinking Chinese ships while China has been neutral. China has not declared war aganist anyone until this event occurred with Australia.

actually no, as no military actions are occuring until tommorrow to give every one a chance to react, and you do not know his IC plans until he carries out IC actions.

actually no, as no military actions are occuring until tommorrow to give every one a chance to react, and you do not know his IC plans until he carries out IC actions.

Yes- All I'm saying is that once the sinkings do happen tomorrow, then it will be Australia and LTA declaring war aganist China despite Chinese neutrality (China hasn't declared war yet, but it will once Australia does the sinking stuff tomorrow).

Yes- All I'm saying is that once the sinkings do happen tomorrow, then it will be Australia and LTA declaring war aganist China despite Chinese neutrality (China hasn't declared war yet, but it will once Australia does the sinking stuff tomorrow).

dealt with elsewhere... essentially you will have to see what happens like everyone else.

Argentina is reacting with concern, but is holding off from any formal declarations of war yet. In the event of a pre-emptive attack, Argentine forces have been deployed as follows:

Curuzu Coratia, Corrientes Province
1st Infantry Division:
1st Infantry Regement (5,000)
3rd Infantry Regement (4,500)
4th Infantry Regement (4,500)
201st Artillery Battalion (1,000)

Parana, Entre Rios Province

3rd Cavalry Division:
1st Mounted Infantry Regement (4,000)
2nd Cavalry Regement (4,000)
1st Cavalry Regement (4,000)
203rd Artillery Battalion (1,000)

San Salvador de Jujuy, Jujuy Province

2nd Infantry Division:
5th Infantry Regement (4,500)
7th Infantry Regement (5,000)
2nd Mounted Infantry Regement (4,500)
202nd Artillery Battalion (1,000)

Salta, Salta Province

5th Mounted Infantry Division:
3rd Cavalry Regement (4,000)
5th Mounted Infantry Regement (5,000)
3rd Mounted Infantry Regement (5,000)
205th Artillery Battalion (1,000)

Santiago del Estero Province

4th Infantry Division:
2nd Infantry Regement (5,000)
4th Mounted Infantry Regement (4,500)
204th Artillery Battalion (1,000)

La Plata, Buenos Aires Province

4th Infantry Division:
9th Infantry Regment (4,500)
6th Infantry Division:
8th Infantry Regement (4,000)

Buenos Aires, La Cuidad de Beunos Aires District

1st President's Guard Regement: (4,000 men)

Viedma, Rio Negro Province

6th Infantry Division:
6th Infantry Regement (4,000)
206th Artillery Battalion (1000)

Right now my troops are all in South Africa or Southwest Africa, with the exception of two infantry regiments in Yugoslavia. If Yugoslavia sides with the Russians, I'll have my troops there try to fight their way to the coast and get the Italians to rescue them. If Yugoslavia's with us, then there's no problem.

I'll have a more detailed post after school.

Do peace keepers really "fight their way out." ? We will allow your troops to return under normal circumstances, but if you want to have them fight their way out, thats fine. Be aware if have 8 divisions being deployed to the coastal regions, and another in Split, so i doubt 2 infantry regiments would make it out without looking like swiss cheese.

I think I have Chinese ground forces figured out.

1. China will have 1 million troops, or 50 divisions to use initially (or within 6 months of the start of WW 2).

2. I'll deploy the following...

10 divisions = Manchuria
10 divisions = Laos
10 divisions = Cambodia
10 divisions = Scattered throughout China's coastline
2 divisions = Shanghai
2 divisions = Tienstin
2 divisions = Guaozhou (Canton)
2 divisions = Beijing / Peking
2 divisions = Tibet

(I will raise a few more divisions, and send them to either Mongolia to quell any Mongolian uprisings if any, or reinforce Chinese defenses)

I believe that 1 million is a reasonable number, given the sheer amount of potential manpower that China can draw from. 1 million is barely 0.2% of 500 million. The equalivent would be the USA fielding 0.2% of its 150 million or so population which means 300,000 troops total for the USA.

What's more, I believe that should the war continue for more than 1 year, China can start adding more troops to its reserves or standing army.

3. My Chinese Fleet will start patroling the Manchuria coastlines.

4. Production of the C-9 Yang will be increased, to give China an reasonably sized Airforce.

5. All Chinese troops will be equipped with German and French weapons. Both Germany and France have given China permission to manufacture and euqip all the latest German and French weapons.

6. Tank research is going to be accelerated, with German and Russian assistance.

7. Fortifications will be built in Beijing / Peking, Shanghai, Tienstin, Canton, Manchuria, Cambodia, Laos, and Tibet. Fortifications will be WW 1 style- bunkers, trenches, barbed wire, and so forth.

8. Production of small and fast attack ships, like the Yangtze Class Patrol Boat and the Xiang Class Destroyer will be ramped up as well. Submarines will also be built at the expense of cruisers and battleships for the time being. However, the secret "Yamato" project will proceed as scheducled.

Basically what's going to happen with China is that it will fight a defensive war for the most part should war actually involve China. If Australia actually does sink Chinese ships (RL today or this week) then China will have to enter the war. Otherwise, China will quietly build weapons of war and increase troops in preparation of defense.

125,000 Infantry

1st Infantry Division (15,000)
1st Infantry Regiment (5,000)
2nd Infantry Regiment (4,500)
1st Artillery Regiment (4,500)

2nd Infantry Division (15,000)
3rd Infantry Regiment (6,000)
1st Calvary Regiment (3,000)
2nd Artillery Regiment (6,000)

3rd Artillery Division (15,000)
4th Infantry Regiment (6,000)
3rd Artillery Regiment (4,500)
4th Artillery Regiment (4,500)

4th Infantry Division (15,000)
6th Infantry Regiment (5,500)
8th Infantry Regiment (5,500)
5th Artillery Regiment (4,000)

5th Infantry Division (15,000)
5th Infantry Regiment (5,000)
7th Infantry Regiment (5,000)
6th Artillery Regiment (5,000)

6th Calvary Division (15,000)
9th Infantry Regiment (7,000)
2nd Calvary Regiment (5,000)
3rd Calvary Regiment (3,000)

7th Calvary Division (15,000)
10th Infantry Regiment (6,000)
4th Calvary Regiment (4,500)
5th Calvary Regiment (4,500)

8th Engineer Division (15,000)
1st Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)
2nd Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)
3rd Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)

1st Colombian Republican Guard (5,000)
1st Republican Battalion (1,000)
2nd Republican Battalion (1,000)
3rd Republican Battalion (1,000)
4th Republican Battalion (1,000)
5th Republican Battalion (1,000)

280,000 reserves (19 Divisions) - ACTIVATED

14,500 army air corps
100 JN4 Jenny Aircraft
75 Bristol Scout Aircraft
25 C-9 Mono-Plane Fighters
30 TC1A Fighters
28 TC1B Bombers
20 TC1C Fighters
4 TC1D Pursuit Aircraft
25 P-1 Pursuit Aircraft

NAVY:
2 Battlecruisers
2 Light Carriers
4 Heavy Cruisers
20 Destroyers
4 Submarines
10 Torpedo Boats

125,000 Infantry

1st Infantry Division (15,000)
1st Infantry Regiment (5,000)
2nd Infantry Regiment (4,500)
1st Artillery Regiment (4,500)

2nd Infantry Division (15,000)
3rd Infantry Regiment (6,000)
1st Calvary Regiment (3,000)
2nd Artillery Regiment (6,000)

3rd Artillery Division (15,000)
4th Infantry Regiment (6,000)
3rd Artillery Regiment (4,500)
4th Artillery Regiment (4,500)

4th Infantry Division (15,000)
6th Infantry Regiment (5,500)
8th Infantry Regiment (5,500)
5th Artillery Regiment (4,000)

5th Infantry Division (15,000)
5th Infantry Regiment (5,000)
7th Infantry Regiment (5,000)
6th Artillery Regiment (5,000)

6th Calvary Division (15,000)
9th Infantry Regiment (7,000)
2nd Calvary Regiment (5,000)
3rd Calvary Regiment (3,000)

7th Calvary Division (15,000)
10th Infantry Regiment (6,000)
4th Calvary Regiment (4,500)
5th Calvary Regiment (4,500)

8th Engineer Division (15,000)
1st Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)
2nd Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)
3rd Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)

1st Colombian Republican Guard (5,000)
1st Republican Battalion (1,000)
2nd Republican Battalion (1,000)
3rd Republican Battalion (1,000)
4th Republican Battalion (1,000)
5th Republican Battalion (1,000)

280,000 reserves (19 Divisions) - ACTIVATED

14,500 army air corps
100 JN4 Jenny Aircraft
75 Bristol Scout Aircraft
25 C-9 Mono-Plane Fighters
30 TC1A Fighters
28 TC1B Bombers
20 TC1C Fighters
4 TC1D Pursuit Aircraft
25 P-1 Pursuit Aircraft

NAVY:
2 Battlecruisers
2 Light Carriers
4 Heavy Cruisers
20 Destroyers
4 Submarines
10 Torpedo Boats

125,000 Infantry

1st Infantry Division (15,000)
1st Infantry Regiment (5,000)
2nd Infantry Regiment (4,500)
1st Artillery Regiment (4,500)

2nd Infantry Division (15,000)
3rd Infantry Regiment (6,000)
1st Calvary Regiment (3,000)
2nd Artillery Regiment (6,000)

3rd Artillery Division (15,000)
4th Infantry Regiment (6,000)
3rd Artillery Regiment (4,500)
4th Artillery Regiment (4,500)

4th Infantry Division (15,000)
6th Infantry Regiment (5,500)
8th Infantry Regiment (5,500)
5th Artillery Regiment (4,000)

5th Infantry Division (15,000)
5th Infantry Regiment (5,000)
7th Infantry Regiment (5,000)
6th Artillery Regiment (5,000)

6th Calvary Division (15,000)
9th Infantry Regiment (7,000)
2nd Calvary Regiment (5,000)
3rd Calvary Regiment (3,000)

7th Calvary Division (15,000)
10th Infantry Regiment (6,000)
4th Calvary Regiment (4,500)
5th Calvary Regiment (4,500)

8th Engineer Division (15,000)
1st Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)
2nd Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)
3rd Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)

1st Colombian Republican Guard (5,000)
1st Republican Battalion (1,000)
2nd Republican Battalion (1,000)
3rd Republican Battalion (1,000)
4th Republican Battalion (1,000)
5th Republican Battalion (1,000)

280,000 reserves (19 Divisions) - ACTIVATED

14,500 army air corps
100 JN4 Jenny Aircraft
75 Bristol Scout Aircraft
25 C-9 Mono-Plane Fighters
30 TC1A Fighters
28 TC1B Bombers
20 TC1C Fighters
4 TC1D Pursuit Aircraft
25 P-1 Pursuit Aircraft

NAVY:
2 Battlecruisers
2 Light Carriers
4 Heavy Cruisers
20 Destroyers
4 Submarines
10 Torpedo Boats

125,000 Infantry

1st Infantry Division (15,000)
1st Infantry Regiment (5,000)
2nd Infantry Regiment (4,500)
1st Artillery Regiment (4,500)

2nd Infantry Division (15,000)
3rd Infantry Regiment (6,000)
1st Calvary Regiment (3,000)
2nd Artillery Regiment (6,000)

3rd Artillery Division (15,000)
4th Infantry Regiment (6,000)
3rd Artillery Regiment (4,500)
4th Artillery Regiment (4,500)

4th Infantry Division (15,000)
6th Infantry Regiment (5,500)
8th Infantry Regiment (5,500)
5th Artillery Regiment (4,000)

5th Infantry Division (15,000)
5th Infantry Regiment (5,000)
7th Infantry Regiment (5,000)
6th Artillery Regiment (5,000)

6th Calvary Division (15,000)
9th Infantry Regiment (7,000)
2nd Calvary Regiment (5,000)
3rd Calvary Regiment (3,000)

7th Calvary Division (15,000)
10th Infantry Regiment (6,000)
4th Calvary Regiment (4,500)
5th Calvary Regiment (4,500)

8th Engineer Division (15,000)
1st Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)
2nd Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)
3rd Combat Engineer Regiment (5,000)

1st Colombian Republican Guard (5,000)
1st Republican Battalion (1,000)
2nd Republican Battalion (1,000)
3rd Republican Battalion (1,000)
4th Republican Battalion (1,000)
5th Republican Battalion (1,000)

280,000 reserves (19 Divisions) - ACTIVATED

14,500 army air corps
100 JN4 Jenny Aircraft
75 Bristol Scout Aircraft
25 C-9 Mono-Plane Fighters
30 TC1A Fighters
28 TC1B Bombers
20 TC1C Fighters
4 TC1D Pursuit Aircraft
25 P-1 Pursuit Aircraft

NAVY:
2 Battlecruisers
2 Light Carriers
4 Heavy Cruisers
20 Destroyers
4 Submarines
10 Torpedo Boats

ooc
please post not only your ground units, but your naval and air units as well... it would save me time having to search for them.

Brazilian Army Deployments




1st Army- North

90,000 Infantry.

9 Divisions.

10,000 Cavalry.

1 Division.




2nd Army- South

90,000 Infantry.

9 Divisions.

10,000 Cavalry.

1 Division.



3rd Army- East

90,000 Infantry.

9 Divisions.

10,000 Cavalry.

1 Division.




4th Army- Interior

20,000 Infantry.

2 Divisions.

5,000 Cavalry.

1 Division.



State Guard

70,000 Infantry.

7 Divisions.

7,000 Cavalry.

1 Division.

125 Panzer II model tanks (20 equipped with flamethrower attachment).




International Division

50,000 Infantry.

5 Divisions.

5,000 Cavalry.

1 Division.

75 Panzer II model tanks (20 equipped with flamethrower attachment).



Total: 410,000 Infantry
43,000 Cavalry






Reserves

175,000 Infantry Activated.
30,000 Cavalry Activated.


Info:
Each of our Cavalry Divisions have 2 Armoured Reconaissance Brigades attached. They are equipped with various rough terrain and recon light vehicles. There is a Tank Corps that contains around 200 of the Panzer II tanks and the airforce contains around 300 French built fighter/recon aircraft. A long range naval model biplane is under construction to carry torpedoes against enemy shipping.