NationStates Jolt Archive

[QUOTE=Galveston Bay]Because a lot of Nation Staters like to wage war

Remember, the Military moderator (me) determines the combat value of your units, and you won't know what you have until they enter combat usually. Such is the uncertainties of peace time hopes and war time realities

Also remember, in peacetime, the limit is 1 corps or 4 divisions or 12 brigades or 6 air / naval units per 5 milion of your population. In addition, you may have 1 or 2 reserve unit for each regular unit without penalty during peacetime. In wartime or during times of national emergency you may call them up. This however can have economic penalties depending on how big a force we are talking about

Naval Units
You must be tech level 6 in order to build a warship or shipping unit. You however can buy them (as well as aircraft and ground forces) from the bigger more modern nations if you wish. Some costs have changed, especially shipping, as the cost of port facilities are included and modern tech level 7 ports include expensive container facilities.

Shipping unit (represents 250,000 tons of shipping at tech level 7, 500,000 tons of shipping at tech level 6) cost 3 points, maintenance free. Construction time 1 year
Transport group (represents 250,000 tons of shipping at tech level 7 or 500,000 tons of shipping at tech level 6) cost 5 points, maintenance .25 points, can carry up to 6 ground divisions or brigades or 2 corps or 6 air units. Construction time 1 year
Amphibious assault group (as above), cost 6 points, maintenance .5 points can carry 2 light infantry brigades or 1 light infantry division or 1 mechanized amphibious brigade, construction time 1 year

Fleet Carrier battlegroup consists of 1 fleet carrier, 5 destroyers, 1 replenishment ship
Cost: 10 points, maintenance 1 point, can carry 1 carrier piston engine fighter or light bomber unit, construction time 2 years
Fleet Carrier (jet capable) battlegroup can be created by spending 2 points to upgrade, takes 1 year

Heavy carrier battlegroup conists of 1 heavy carrier (jet capable), 5 destroyers, 1 replenishment ship, can carry 1 carrier jet fighter bomber or jet fighter or carrier light bomber group. Cost 15, maintenance 2 points, construction time 3 years.

ASW/Commando carrier unit consists of 2 light carriers or 5 escort carriers plus 20 corvettes or 10 destroyers. Cost 10, maintenance 1, construction time 2 years. Any 2 light carriers or 5 escort carriers can be converted into this unit. No strike capability, just an ASW mission or can carry 1 marine light brigade or 1 airborne brigade and conduct amphibious helicopter assaults.
A fleet carrier battlegroup can also be converted into an ASW/Commando unit for free.

Battleship (16 inch guns) consists of 1 battleship. Cost 20 points, maintenance 2 points, construction time 4 years.
Battleship (18 inch guns) consists of 1 battleship, Cost 24 points, maintenance 2 points, construction time 5 years.
Old battleship (anything built prior to Third Great War), cannot be built, maintenance 1 point

Heavy cruiser (8 inch gun) consists of 1 ship. Cost 8, maintenance .5 points, construction time 3 years.
Missile cruiser (heavy) can be created for 2 more points, provides a SAM capability to surface fleets against high flying aircraft (like heavy bombers carrying atomic bombs for example)
Light cruiser (6 inch) consists of 1 ship. Cost 7, maintenance .5 points, construction time 3 years.
Missile cruiser (light) as above
Antiaircraft Cruiser consists of 1 ship. Cost 6, maintenance .5 points. Construction time 2 years.
Escort cruiser consists of 1 ship cost 4 points, maintenance .25 points
construction time 1 year

All gun battleships and cruisers can be converted into missile cruisers and batteships at the cost of 2 points. Essentially the rear main turrets are removed and missile launchers (2 per turret for cruisers, 4 per turret for battleships) are installed, and the shell magazines now handle missiles.

Destroyer squadron (5 destroyers) cost 5, maintenance .25, construction time 1 year
Frigate Flotilla (10 Frigates) cost 5, maintenance .25, construction time 1 year
Patrol / Escort group (20 corvettes) cost 5, maintenance .25, construction time 1 year
Coastal Patrol group (40 torpedo or later on, missile boats). Cost 3 points, maintenance .25, construction time 1 year

Nuclear attack submarine (not available before 1950)
Nuclear ballistic missile submarine (not available before 1950)
Both of these units require nuclear technology (72 points over 3 years, plus nuclear fueling capability 24 points for 2 years, but in any case, cannot show up before 1950)
Ballistic missile submarine (not available before 1950.. requires ballistic missile technology and some bugs to be worked out)

Attack submarine group (5 snorkel submarines) cost 5, maintenance .5, construction time 1 year
Submarine group (10 older submarines) cost 5, maintenance .5, construction time 1 year

Ocean liner unit (2 ocean liners) cost 10 points, maintenance .5 (free if in civilian service) construction time 2 years, can carry up to 6 light infantry brigades or 2 light infantry division or 1 conventional unit anywhere in 2 months.

Ground forces
Brigades are 5,000 men (including support needed outside of the brigade)
Divisions and Groups are 20,000 men (as above)
Corps and Units are 50,000 men (as above)

Light infantry units:
All light infantry units can be carried by transport aircraft and later on helicopter, can operate in any terrain without penalty, get combat advantages for cities and rough terrain and movement advantages for jungle, rough, and forest terrain. Costs reflect not only equipment but also initial training. Maintenance reflects training costs.

Parachute brigade cost: 2 points maintenance .25 points, combat strength 1, can be airdropped by 1 transport aircraft up to the limit of its range

Marine light infantry brigade cost 2 points, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 1, can conduct amphibious landings if transported by a transport or amphibious group

Mountain infantry brigade cost 2 points, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 1, can cross high mountain areas and operate in arctic conditions without penalty.

Light infantry division cost 1 points, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 2

Conventional forces
Standard units that have some trucks and heavy weapons, but not as much as mechanized and motorized units do. Cannot be airlifted, but do get combat advantages for cities and rough terrain. No movement advantages or special disadvantages.

Garrison unit cost 3 points, maintenance .25, combat strength 3, combat strength includes flak strength, cannot move except by strategic movement, no partisan / guerilla operations near garrison units.

Infantry division cost 1 point, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 2, the standard infantry division

Infantry corps cost 5 points, maintenance .5 points, combat strength 5, 2 infantry divisions plus corps artillery support

Flak group cost 3 points, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 3, later on includes surface to air missiles, special anti air defense adjustment (reduces damage caused by air attacks.)

Artillery unit 3 points, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 3, provides combat advantages in combat

Mechanized forces
Have a lot of mobility, with all units having sufficient vehicles to move everything at once, and usually includes at least some tanks and other armored vehicles. Special combat advantages against light and conventional forces, but also special terrain disadvantages in rough, swamp, forest, jungle and urban terrain, and special movement disadvantages in forest,, jungle, rough and swamp terrain.

Mechanized infantry division cost 4 points, maintenance .5 points, combat strength 5

Armored division cost 5 points, maintenance .5 points, combat strength 6

armored cavalry brigade / armored brigade cost 2 points, maintenance .25 points, combat strength 2

Mechanized artillery group cost 5 points, maintenance .5 points, combat strength 4, otherwise as artillery

Mechanized flak group cost 5 points, maitnenace .5 points, combat strength 4, otherwise as flak.

mechanized marine brigade cost 2 points, maintenance .5 points, combat strength 2, can conduct amphibious landings if transported by an amphibious group

HQs cost 10 points, maintenance is 1 point, can reorganize up to 10 air or ground units, and can extend supply and has special combat advantages. Represents not only commanders, but the extensive combat and general support units that make armies function better.

ooc
this will replace what is on the first page of the this thread when finished. Corps from World War III can be broken down into 2 division sized units.

motorized infantry and Infantry forms 2 divisions either infantry or light infantry
airborne, mountain and amphibious corps can form up to 6 brigades
mechanized corps form 2 mechanized divisions
armored corps form 2 armored divisions
flak, artillery and mechanized versions of the same are unchanged
HQs are simply more efficient now

troop quality can effect cost and value (costs are per unit)
Substandard troops - .25 points for maintenance, -1 combat value
average troops as above
highly trained troops +.25 points for maintenance, +1 combat value
elite trained troops +.5 points for maintenance, +2 combat value

Air Forces
Important rule change: Maintenance no longer upgrades aircraft, it simply keeps them flying. You have to buy new aircraft to get new aircraft, unless it is a simple improvement of the same type (B model replaced by C model for example).

Pilots:
Average pilots: cost: 2 points, maintenance free, training time 6 months
Expert pilots: cost: 2 points, maintenance .25, training time 1 year
Elite pilots: cost: 4 points, maintenance .5 points, training time 2 years

Aircraft now represent 100 fighters, light bombers or fighter bombers or50 medium, heavy or strategic bombers or 50 maritime patrol aircraft or 50 transport aircraft.
Short range aircraft are capable of reaching the front line and a few miles beyond it (about 500 kilometers or less)
Medium range aircraft can conduct longer ranged operations up to 1000 kilometers
Long range aircraft can fly up to 2000 kilometers
Intercontinental range aircraft can fly up to 10,000 kilometers
Tanker units can be paired up with an air unit to increase its range by one (short to medium for example).
aircraft that are out of production cannot be purchased as new (although perhaps surplus aircraft are available if you ask nicely the nation that had them), only maintained

Piston and mixed jet/piston engine aircraft
Fighter bombers and single engine light bombers cost 1 point, maintenance .25 points
F51 Mustang air combat 2, strike rating 2 range long (US) out of production
Hawker Fury air combat 3, strike rating 1 range medium (carrier capable) (UK) out of production
P47N air combat 2, strike rating 4, range medium (US) out of production
F4U Corsair air combat 2, strike rating 3, range long (carrier capable) (US) out of production
AD1 Skyraider air combat 1, naval strike rating 6, strike rating 4, range short (carrier capable) (US)
IL10 Sturmavik II air combat 0, naval strike rating 3, strike rating 3, range medium (Russian) out of production
F82 Twin Mustang air combat 2, strikie rating 3, range long, all weather capable, (US) out of production
Mosquito air combat 2, strike rating 2, range long, all weather capable (UK) out of production
DO 335 air combat 3, strike rating 1, range medium, all weather capable (Germany) out of production
TA 152 air combat 2, strike rating 1, range medium (Germany) out of production

Twin engine light bombers cost 2 points, maintenance .25 points
A26 Invader air combat 0, naval strike rating 3, strike rating 5, range medium (US) out of production
JU288 air combat 0, naval strike rating 4, strike rating 4, range medium (Germany) out of production
Mosquito air combat 1, naval strike rating 2, strike rating 4, range long (UK)
AJ-1 Savage air combat 1, naval strike rating 3, strike 3, range medium (heavy carrier capable, nuclear capable) (US) out of production
Chinese Aviation P1Y2 Frances II air combat 0 naval strike rating 4, strike rating 4, range long (Japanese Frances bomber with improved engines now built in China by Chinese National Aviation company) out of production
P2V Neptune air combat rating 2, naval strike rating 5, strike rating 2, all weather capable, maritime patrol aircraft (US)

Heavy and strategic bombers
B50 Super Fortress (a variant of the B29 with better engines and range), air combat rating 3, strike rating 8, nuclear capable, all weather capable, range: long . Cost 4, maintenance cost 1, can refuel by air (US) out of production
B36D Peacemaker (10 engine variant of B36, carried out nuclear attacks on Russia), air combat rating 4, strike rating 10, all weather and nuclear capable, range intercontinental , cost: 5 maintenance cost 2 (US) out of production
PB4Y air combat rating 1, naval strike rating 5, strike rating 4, all weather capable, maritime patrol aircraft cost 4, maintenance cost 1 (US) out of production

Transport and Tanker aircraft
C47/DC3 air combat 0 can airlift 2 brigades or airdrop 1 brigade, range medium cost 2, maintenance .25 (US) out of production
C54 / DC4 air combat 0, can airlift 2 brigades or airdrop 1 brigade, range long, cost 3, maintenance .5 (US) out of production
C82 Flying Boxcar air combat 0, can airlift 1 light division or paradrop 1 brigade, range medium, cost.2, maintenance .25, can refuel by air (US)
C124 Globemaster air combat 0, can airlift 2 light divisions. Range intercontinental (US)
KC50 Tanker (as per B50 bomber) except air combat 2, range long, cost 4, maintenance cost .5 (US) out of production
Handley Page Hastings air combat 0, can airlift 2 brigades or airdrop 1 brigade, cost 3, maintenance .5, range long, can refuel by air (UK)
Arado Ar 232 air combat 0, can airlift 1 brigade or airdrop 1 brigade, range long, cost 2, maintenance .25, (Germany)
SM95 air combat 1, can airlift 2 brigades or air drop 1 brigade, range long, cost 2, maintenance .25 (Italian)
Lincoln Tanker air combat 1, range long, cost 3, maintenance .5 (UK)
KC97 tanker air combat 0, range long , cost 3, maitnenance cost .5 (US)
C123 Provider theater transport air combat rating 1, range medium cost 2, maintenance cost .5 (US)

Jet fighters, fighter bombers and interceptors cost 2, maintenance .5
F80 Shooting Star air combat 3, strike rating 2, range medium (US)out of production
F84 Thunderstreak air combat 4, strike rating 3, range medium (US) out of production
FH2 Banshee, air combat 5, strike rating 3, range short, carrier capable (US) out of production
F11F Tiger, air combat 8, strike rating 3, range short, carrier capable (US)
F86E Saber, air combat 7, strike rating 1, range medium, (US) out of production
F86D Saber, air combat 6, strike rating 1, range medium, all weather capable (US)
F100 Super Saber air combat 8, strike rating 2, range medium, (US)
ME –17 Scimitar, air combat 6, strike rating 2, range short (Colombia)
Mig 15 air combat 7, strike rating 1, range short (Poland)
TA183D air combat 6, strike rating 2, range medium (Germany)
Hawker Hunter air combat 8, strike rating 3, range medium (UK)
Vampire Mk 3 air combat 3, strike rating 3, range medium (UK) (out of production)
Venom air combat 6, strike rating 1, range short (UK)
Sea Hawk air combat 5, strike rating 2, range short (UK)(carrier capable)
F9F Cougar air combat 5, strike rating 3, range medium (US) (out of production)
Meteor V air combat 4, strike rating 3, range medium (UK) out of production
Su 5 air combat 6, strike rating 3, range short (Russia)
Gloster Javalin aircombat 8, strike rating 1, range long (UK) all weather
Mig 17 air combat 7, strike rating 1, range short, all weather (Poland)
Mig 19 air combat 8, strike rating 1, range short (Poland)
Dassault Mystere IV air combat 7, strike rating 2, range medium (China/France)
TA200 air combat 9, strike rating 1, range medium, all weather (Germany)

3rd Generation Jet fighters and light bombers Cost 3, maintenance 1
F101A Voodoo escort fighter, air combat 11, strike 2, range long, (US)
F101B Voodoo all weather interceptor air combat 10, strike 1, range long (US)
F104 Starfighter interceptor, air combat 11, strike 1, range short (US)
M107 fighter, air combat 9, strike 3, range medium, (Colombia)

light jet bombers cost 3, maintenance .5
IL28 (Hong 5) medium bomber air combat 5, strike rating 5, range medium (Korea)
B57 Canberra medium bomber air combat 5, strike rating 6, range medium (US/UK)
Tu14 medium bomber air combat 5, strike rating 6, range medium (Sweden)
F105 light bomber light bomber, air combat 9, strike rating 5, range medium (US)
A4 Skyhawk carrier light bomber , air combat 7, strike rating 4, range medium (US)
Do- 337 light bomber, air combat 8, strike rating 4, range medium, (Germany)

heavy jet bombers cost 4, maintenance 1
B47 heavy bomber, air combat 6, strike rating 8, range long (US)(nuclear capable)
Tu 16 (Badger) heavy bomber air combat 4, strike rating 7, range long (Sweden)(nuclear capable)
Vickers Valiant Heavy bomber air combat 5, strike rating 8, range long (UK)(nuclear capable)
Avro Vulcan air combat 6, strike rating 8, range long, (UK) nuclear capable

strategic bombers (jet) cost 6, maintenance 2
B52 Stratofortress, air combat 8, strike rating 12, range intercontinental (US)(nuclear capable)
TU95 Bear air combat 7, strike rating 10, range long, (nuclear capable)(Scandic Union)

Helicopter units cost 2, maintenance .25
transport helicopter (can lift 1 light infantry, alpine, marine light infantry or airborne brigade)

This post will be updated for each major change

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

Nuclear Weapons

dates of historical developments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_explosion
subtract 5 years

The Union and United States both used Little Boy type fission weapons during the Third Great War. Since that time, the US has developed the Fat Man type weapon, and developed 'boosted' fission bombs (400 kiloton weapons). At this time, it takes a very large aircraft to carry a boosted weapon (B47 size, which can carry one) or at least a twin engined bomber (AJ1 or bigger) to carry a Little Boy type (20 kiloton) bomb.

The US conducted the Bikini tests in 1944 in this timeline.

To build atomic weapons:
You must spend 24 points a year for 3 years to develop the needed infrastructure (seperation plants, reactors, fuel production facilities) and technology to actually build the bombs. .

You get a working bomb midway through the third year. These weapons are 20 kilotons and can only be carried by a large bomber. 6 points a year retains an operational program allowing for building 12 bombs a year

To build boosted fission bombs, another 24 points and must have atomic weapons. However, you can shrink the size of atomic bombs so that big missiles and 2 engined bombers can carry them, but only 4 engine or bigger planes for the boosted weapons (which are 250 -400 kilotons). Boosted bombs are tech level 7. 6 points a year retains an operational program allowing for building 12 bombs a year

To build a Hydrogen bomb, you must spend 24 points a year for 3 years to develop it. You must also spend 24 points on the sciences needed for the technology to build it. You must be tech level 7 to even begin the process. Initial bomb is 10 - 15 megatons (see link above). For every 12 points spend thereafter you get better bomb technology leading to the development of tactical nuclear weapons (1 - 50 kilotons) by the 5th year after developing the H-Bomb and super (25 - 100 megaton weapons) by the 10th year of development. Further developments (and this does require 12 points a year for every single year) leads to neutron weapons by the 20th year of development and so called 'clean' weapons by the 25th year. An additional 6 points a year retains an operational program allowing for building 100 bombs a year, for every 1 point above that, another 30 weapons are produced.

Nuclear technology is complicated to say the least.

Missiles cannot carry H-bombs until tactical weapons are available (in other words, the warheads become small enough to fit in a missile)

Missiles and Space Programs
These are high tech items even today, so special rules apply.
1. Short range missiles (V2 type) 24 points, tech level 6, 1 point buys 500 missiles, plus 1 point a year for maintenance and they only carry HE warheads and have a short range. They have a CEP of up to 50 miles.
2. Short range cruise missiles (V1 type) as above
Germany, US, UK, Scandic Union, Russia, Gran Colombia have this technology already

At tech level 7 the following can begin (and in this order)
Ballistic Missiles
No more then 24 points can be spent a year on missile research

1. MRBM missiles (as per V2, but have a medium range of several hundred miles). Research cost is 24 points, then Cost 1 point for 200 missiles, plus 1 point a year for maintenance. HE warheads only. US, Germany, UK, Scandic Union, Russia, Gran Colomiba have this technology already (as of 1947(
2. Improved MRBM missiles (can actually carry a nuke up to 25 KT or chemical warhead). Costs as above plus research for 12 points
US has this technology in 1947

3. Intermediate (IRBM) range missiles (range is long, up to 2000 miles), can carry warheads up to 100 KT. Research cost is 24 points plus unit Cost is 1 point for 100 missiles plus 1 point a year for maintenance (Redstone type missile) CEP is 10 miles.

4. ICBM (intercontinental range missiles) range is 6500 miles, liquid fuel missiles, research cost is 48 points, unit cost is 1 point for every 25 missiles plus 1 point a year for maintenance (Atlas type missiles) CEP is 10 miles, can carry warheads up to 100 KT.

5. Large ICBMs, range is 10,000 miles, liquid fuel, research cost 24 points, unit cost is 1 point for every 10 missiles plus 1 point a year for maintenance. Can carry up to 1 MT warhead, CEP is 10 miles (Titan type).

6. Improved IRBMs, range is 2500 miles, liquid fuel, research cost is 24 points, unit cost is 1 point for 24 missiles, plus 1 point a year for maintenance. Can carry up to 1 50 KT warhead. Can be carried aboard a ballistic missile submarine.

7. Solid fuel missiles, research cost is 48 points, unit cost same as type of missile desired.

8. MIRV technology. 72 points, allows IRBMs and ICBMs to carry more than 1 warhead.

Cruise missiles, SAMs and other missiles.
Improved MRBMs allows you to build SAM1 type missiles, Snark type cruise missiles, Sidewinder type AA missiles,

ICBMs allow you to build SAM2 type missiles, Kelt type cruise missiles, better AA missiles

Large ICBMS allow you to build Nike-Ajax anti missiles (with nuclear warheads) and SUBROC type ASW weapons

Improved IRBMs allow for wireguided, joy stick controlled anti tank missiles, portable (vehicle mounted) anti aircraft missiles

Solid fuel missiles allow for TOW type ant tank missiles, man portable AA missiles

Space Program
no more then 12 points a year allowed for research
1. Improved IRBMs allow for a putting something into space, plus another 12 points and you can replicate the first Mercury mission (but cannot achieve orbit)
2. ICBMs allow for Sputnik, and with 24 more points, you can replicate Mercury type missions (achieve orbit)
3. 12 points gets you short duration communications and other satellites
4. 12 more points plus Large ICBMs and you can replicate Gemini type missions.
5. 24 points gets you heavy lift rockets (Saturn V)
6. 24 more points gets you Apollo capability.
7. 24 more points gets you Skylab capability.

Plus the cost of spacecraft and the mission itself.
Each Manned Space mission costs 5 points (and each mission must be paid for seperately and has a risk of disaster)
Each Satellite launch costs 1 point (and also has a risk of disaster)

Space planes like the X-15 etc require solid fuel type missile technology, plus another 48 points to achieve suborbital, and another 24 points to achieve orbital flight. Better space planes cost another 36 points (and I will have to figure out something as none were every built). The Space Shuttle is a tech level 8 technology.

Project Orion has a very special cost structure... contact me if you are loony enough to try it

Quibble: A good number of those cruisers are protected cruisers not fully armored, example: The U.S.S. Atlanta.
Of course was the Olympia herself armored?

Quibble: A good number of those cruisers are protected cruisers not fully armored, example: The U.S.S. Atlanta.
Of course was the Olympia herself armored?

the short answer is not really. Although she was steel while the poor Spanish cruisers at Manila Bay were wooden and iron for the most part. But yes, absolutely true....and a lot of the battleships aren't all that well armored either.

pre dreadnought actual combat worthiness of major warships can be found here

http://www.wtj.com/games/battlefleet_1900/

(OOC: I couldn't find any info on the Korean army, so it's time to make a small, pathetic, force. Assume that all of the men are poorly trained and equipped.)

Imperial Army of Korea

10,000 Imperial soliders
500 officers
One steam engine
More piddling nothingness....

When i will find info on the France army, i wil post it here. same for major chages in years to come.

French regular army

French colonial army

French navy
class
name year of construction

These are the majot ships of my navy in 1900. the Republique class Battleships, the gloire armoured cruisers and the Dupleix class are under constructions.

Battleships
Redoutable Central Battery Ship
Redoutable September 1876
Displacement: 9224 tons. Speed: 14.7 knots. Crew: 705. Armament: 8 10.5" guns, 6 5.5", 12 1 PDR revolvers, 2 14" torpedo tubes
Courbet Class Central Battery Ships
Courbet April 1882
Devastation April 1879
Displacement: 10450 tons. Speed: 15 knots. Crew: 689 Armament: 4 13.4", 4 10.8" guns, 6 5.5" guns, 8 1 PDR revolver, 5 14" torpedo tubes.
Amiral Duperre Barbette Ship
Amiral Duperre Sept 1879
Displacement: 11300 tons. Speed: 14 knots. Crew: 660. Armament: 4 13.4", 1 6.4", 14 5.5", 18 1 Pdr revolvers, 4 14" torpedo tube.
Terrible Class Barbette Ships
Caiman May 1885
Indomptable Sept 1883
Requin June 1885
Terrible 1881
(No info ATM)
Amiral Baudin Class Barbette Ships
Amiral Baudin June 1883
(No info ATM)
Formidable April 1885
Hoche Turret Barbette Ship
Hoche Sept. 1886
Marceau Barbette Ship Class
Magenta April 1890
Marceau May 1887
Neptune May 1887
Brennus Turret Battleship
Brennus October 1891
Charles Martel Battleship
Charles Martel August 1893
Carnot Battleship
Carnot July 1884
Jaureguiberry Battleship
Jaureguiberry Nov 1893
Massena Battleship
Massena July 1895
Bouvet Battleship
Bouvet 27th May 1896
Charlemagne Class
Charlemagne 17th October 1895
Gaulois 8th October 1896.
St Louis 8th September 1896
Henri IV 23rd August 1899.
Iena 1st September 1898.
Suffren 25th July 1899
Republique Class
Republique 4th September 1902
Patrie 17th December 1903

Protected Cruisers
Sfax May 1884
Tage October 1886
Amiral Cecille May 1888
Davout October 1889
Suchet October 1891
Pothuau 19th September.
Forbin Class
Forbin 14th January 1888
Coetlogon December 1888
Surcouf October 1890
Troude Class
Cosmao August 1889
Lalande March 1889
Troude October 1888
Linois Class
Galilee April 1896
Lavoisier April 1897
Linois January 1894
Alger Class
Alger November 1889
Isly June 1893
Jean Bart November 1889
Friant Class
Bugeaaud August 1893
Chasseloup-Laubat April 1893
Friant April 1893
Descartes Class
Descartes September 1894
Pascal September 1895
D'Assas Class
Cassard May 1896
D'Assas March 1896
Du Chayla September 1895
Catinat Class
Catinant October 1896
Protet July 1898
D'Entrecasteaux June 1896
Guichen October 1897
Chateaurenault May 1898
D'Estrees Class
D'Estrees October 1897
Infernet September 1899
Jurien De la Graviere June 1899

Armored Cruisers
Dupuy de Lome 27th October 1890¸
Admiral Charner
18th March 1893
Bruix 3rd August 1894
Chanzy 24th January 1894
Latouche-Treville 8th October 1892
Porthuau Class
Porthuau 19th September 1895
Jeanne D'Arc 8th June 1899
Gueydon Class
Dupetit-Thouars 5th July 1901
Gueydon 20th September 1899
Montcalm 27th March 1900
Dupleix Class
Desaix 21st March 1901
Dupleix 28th April 1900
Kleber 20th September 1902
Gloire Class
Amiral Aube 9th May 1902
Conde 12th March 1902
Gloire 27th June 1900
Marseillaise 14th July 1900
Sully June 1901

destroyers
Durandal Class
Durandal 11th February 1899
Hallebarde 8th June 1899
Fauconneau 2nd April 1900
Espingole 28th June 1900

Other forces

battleships of the world

http://home.att.net/~wellsbrothers/Battleships/FrenchBBtable.html

links will take you to other nations

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/cruisers3.htm

all about cruisers and battleships and other classes

just find the time period, and go from there

major French leaders
http://www.worldwar1.com/atfra.htm

other nations leaders

http://www.worldwar1.com/atindex.htm

French Army 1914 (in French, use babblefish if you need to)
http://home.comcast.net/~markconrad/FR1914.html

find Guns of August and read it... damn good on the period, it won a Pulitzer, and its a good read

by the way, you don't really need to rush forward your military unless your actually at war with some one I would think. For example, the US is at war in the Philippines, the British are fighting the Boers, but the people who decide to intervene in the Boxer Rebellion can probably just look up the information on that to find out what they have in the area and available

navies should be pretty easy to figure out based on the links above. Armies will be tougher, but doable.

Now how we are going to handle a world war should it come should be interesting.. suggestions anyone?

TAG for now, will do my research. This will be my post.

Estimated Military Forces for Luxembourg

Military Manpower

1,318 Males aged 19+

French Army 1914 (in French, use babblefish if you need to)
http://home.comcast.net/~markconrad/FR1914.html


Nah, im francophone, it will be no problem to read it! :-p

Just posting so I can quickly find my naval forces, and for tagging.

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/argentine_navy.htm

Military Manpower of Irish Republicans

Approxiamtely 2 million people support the cause of which a very small minority will be active militarily against Britain. Say around 30000 men armed extremely poorly with old sidearms, shotguns etc. Though others may join in locally if a battle appears to be going well.

Navy
3 modern dreadnoughts, 24 destroyers, 13 cruisers (4 armored, 4 protected, 5 light) and 9 battleships (pre-dreadnought design), 9 submarines, 4 coastal defense ships (maned with reserves), 6 torpedo gunboats, and 30 torpedo boats.


Army
The Imperial and Royal Army was drawn from all parts of the Empire. The 350,000 men in this army gave their allegiance direct to the Emperor. Recruits for the army were obtained by conscription.

Standard Infantry Weapons:
Rifle: Repetier Gewehr M95 – a five-round clip firing 8mm (8x56mm) bullets
Sidearm: Steyr Mannlicher M1901(Pistol) - an eight-round clip firing 7.65mm (7.65 x 21mm) bullets

Special Weapons:
Machine Guns: Schwarzlose M7/12 – a 250-round magazine fabric belt firing 8mm (8x56mm) bullets
Assault Rifles: Cei-Rigotti (Modified) – a 25 round detachable box magazine firing 8mm (8x56mm) bullets

Airforce

NONE

In the Year 1900
Romania has a standing army of 30,000 soldiers, organized along the Prussian model under Prussian advisors (I'll look into what the "Prussian model" is exactly when it becomes important). In wartime, the Kingdom is capable of mobilizing nearly 500,000 men by 1913, and I doubt that that number was significantly changed from 1900 (although it did increase substantially during the course of the Great War).
Romania is also the only Balkan state to possess a Navy. Haven't found much on it, but it's probably not more than a few gunboats, maybe torpedo boats, and a central battery ship or two.

Can anyone tell me what exactly is a central battery ship? im kinda a n00b with old navies.

Military

Ok, using that info and 2% of the population I just estimated the numbers:

Army
65,000 Irregular Infantry (used their own weapons)
10,000 riflemen (skirmishers)
70,000 Conscript Infantry (armed with British Weapons)

32,000 Cavalry (sabers and primitive rifles)

90 outdated cannons

150,000 support (medics, engineers, etc

Non-Government
from 100,000-190,000 irregular, disunited tribal Cavalry (well armed due to smuggling)

Navy
Ali ibn Abu Talib Central Battleships
Abu Talib April 1882
Husayn April 1879
Displacement: 10450 tons. Speed: 15 knots. Crew: 689 Armament: 4 13.4", 4 10.8" guns, 6 5.5" guns, 8 1 PDR revolver, 5 14" torpedo tubes.

Hasan ibn Ali Central Battery Ship
Hasan September 1876
Displacement: 9224 tons. Speed: 14.7 knots. Crew: 705. Armament: 8 10.5" guns, 6 5.5", 12 1 PDR revolvers, 2 14" torpedo tubes

Can anyone tell me what exactly is a central battery ship? im kinda a n00b with old navies.

it has turrets, but is really an ironclad, and terribly obsolete by 1900

Thanks! Anyone willing to buy the Redoutable, the Courbet, and the Devastation?

http://home.att.net/~wellsbrothers/Battleships/RNBBtable.html
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/cruisers.htm

I'll do further research into the British Army of the period.

ooc: Sarz.... MSN?

ooc: Sarz.... MSN?OOC: I'm at work right now, so I can't. I'll try to get on Saturday morning (my time).

OOC: I'm at work right now, so I can't. I'll try to get on Saturday morning (my time).
alright fine, lets talk by TG. I'll send you one now.

1900 - 1916
Infantry*

Cavalry*

1917-1938
Infantry

Cavalry

1938-1945
Infantry

Cavalry

1945-70
Infantry

Cavalry

Airforce

Armoured

1970-1990


* = revolutionary units or guerillas

Ground forces
Infantry
12 Battalions Egyptian (14,400 soldiers)
6 Battalions Sudanese (7,200 soldiers)
1 Battalion Italian askaris (1,200 soldiers) at Kassala garrison

Cavalry
10 Squadrons (1,000 soldiers)

Camel Corps
4 Companies Egyptian (600 soldiers)
4 Companies Sudanese (600 soldiers)

Artillery
5 Batteries - mule/camel drawn(30 guns - Maxim-Nordenfelt 75mm quick-firers)
1 Battery - horse drawn (6 guns - same)

References: http://www.sirgarnet.com/armyguide/Army_Egypt_1880_00.html

Navy
WIP

Kingdom of Siam

{OOC: I could find no records of Siamese Military statistics for 1900, so I'm just going to make it up, I believe the following should be good.}

Army
20,000 Trained Infantry
10,000 Militia

Navy
None

Air Force
None

Spain 1900

Population 18.569 million
http://www.library.uu.nl/wesp/populstat/Europe/spainc.htm

timeline of events
http://timelines.ws/control/COUNTRYS_L_Z.HTML

colonies remaining
Spanish Sahara
Rio Muni
Bioko
Canary Islands

Fleet
Battleships
Carlos V, Pelayo 2 x 32 cm, 2 x 28 cm, 1 x stern torpedo tube, 6 x center mount torpedo tubes, coastal defense ship, poor seakeeping and range, poorly armored

Spanish naval history
http://www.revistanaval.com/armada/ (in Spanish by the way)

The Spanish navy has been essentially destroyed and will have to be rebuilt as it has a pair of destroyers and the mediocre battleship above

Spanish Army 1897
http://www.spanamwar.com/misc.htm

Spanish Army in Europe was constituted by 10 Military Districts and 2 Military Command (Ceuta and Melilla, in Africa).
The Garrison in each Military District was a Army Corp with two or three divisions.
Composition of Divisions:
Headquarter,
Divisionary Troops (one Cavalry Regiment and one Artillery regiment, Medical and transport Corps)
two or more brigades
Brigades:
Line Infantry: two regiments
Light Infantry: four battalions
Cavalry: two regiments
Regiments:
Line Infantry: Staff of Regiment and two Battalions
Light Infantry was not organized in Regiments but in Battalions
Cavalry: Staff of Regiment and four squadrons
Engineers: staff of regiment and two battalions
Artillery: Staff regiment, four batteries and one ammunition column
Battalions:
Line Infantry:
Muster-out: 20 officers and 326 infantrymen
Muster-in: 18 officers and 2001 infantrymen
Light Infantry:
Muster-out: 23 officers and 477 or 716 infantrymen
Muster-in: 23 officers and 1001 infantrymen
Cavalry Squadon (similar to battalion)
25 officers and 152 soldiers.
Spanish army in Europe was organized as follows:
Royal Guard (One Squadron for Royal Escort and two Companies or Royal Halberdiers)
62 line infantry regiments
23 light infantry battalions
28 cavalry regiments.
16 Light artillery regiments
10 Heavy artillery regiments
5 Engineer regiments
1 telegraph battalion
1 railway battalion
2 medical brigades
1 military administration brigade

Spain also has a problem in that most of its officers are far too old, and they have a lot of political power, and retiring them is extremely difficult. Its also eating up the military budget. These old reactionaries are a part of the problem that would historically lead to the collapse of the Spanish monarchy and the Spanish Civil War.

Could someone help me on getting some info on the Ottoman Army and Navy around 1900?

anyone help me with me army, i got the Navy, just need the footsloggers

-SNIP-
Spanish naval history
http://www.revistanaval.com/armada/ (in Spanish by the way)
-SNIP-
No problem I'm Cuban! Oh and thanks for all the info it really helps! Quick question can I start RPing as Spain? I was Belgium before.

Could someone help me on getting some info on the Ottoman Army and Navy around 1900?

look up the Turkish Army and Navy for World War I, and make adjustments for population and deployment. Check out the opening post of this thread for information on warships.. several links are posted that should be highly useful.

The Ottoman Arm forces
As of 1906
The Army- A Single Army cores can be at 10,000 troops at its lowest and 50,000 troop at max.
Army Core as of 1904
600,000 troops( 30 percent trained to 70 percent somewhat trained)
Number of Army cores:18 Army cores at the moment.

The Navy as of 1906

Cruisers

Heibetnuma Class
Heibetnuma 30th January 1890

Lufti Humayun Class
Luft Humayun 16th August 1892

Light Cruisers
Arrogant class -4 ships

Protected Cruisers -7

Roon Class Armoured Cruisers -4

Destroyers

Berk I Efsan 1892
Tayyar 1893
Thornycroft "27 knotters" class -13

Torpedo Boats

Timsah 1885
Simir I Hidsum 1884
Mecidiye 1885-1890
Mahabet 1887
Gilyom 1886
Nasr 1888-1892
Ejder 1890
"140 footer" class- 10

Corvettes
Mariner class -2 ships
Nymphe class -2 ships

There really aren't any in the sense that we accept them to be in the 21st Century. Elite is really on a morale thing at this point in military development

General military thoughts:
also, try to use historical information as much as possible. For smaller countries, this may be difficult at times, but usually you can look up your military for World War I or World War II and extrapolate from there (smaller usually at the start of the century). Post World War II, you can usually find Cold War information.

If you are trying to build a more elite or effective army, its going to be hard. No one has fought a really big war since 1870 in Europe or the 1860s in the Americas, and the Colonial Wars fought since then are pretty small scale comparitively speaking. So no one really knows what is going to happen when the big war starts historically.

Also, elite forces are extremely rare in this time period. Most armies are conscript forces and the only really professional armies are the small non conscript armies like the British, and to a limited extent, the Americans and Canadians. Although oddly enough the Russian Army is better now than it will be later as it just switched from a long (life long) conscription to a shorter conscription and for the only time in the century has lots of NCOs (who get killed off during the Great War)

So commandos etc are right out. The Boer commandos are actually units (a Commando is a company to battalion or squadron sized unit), not what the modern term has come to mean.

Some marines are very elite, but only in a morale sense. Really we are talking about simply much larger versions of the same kind of armies that fought the Napoleonic and American Civil Wars, but with deadlier weapons.

Which is why World War I was such a shock.

Also remember that Marconi has barely invented the Wireless, so there isn't any radio to speak of for a while.

In short, we have European mass armies with huge amounts (compared to previous centuries) of firepower, but whose ability to communicate and move on the battlefield is little different from what Napoleon had. Which is why World War I became such a hideous stalemate so quickly.

Fleets at this point depend of message boats and ships to transmit orders at a strategic level, or make for a port with a Cable that leads to home (telegraph cable). At the tactical level they use signal flags, which have problems being seen because of all the smoke created by all those coal powered steamships.

Without the ability to communicate effectively, navies and armies depend on their doctrine. Which is why so many battles prior to World War I were marked by inappropriate responses to actual circumstances. If you don't have orders, you have to rely on doctrine because everyone else is in order to avoid complete chaos.

Chilean forces, based on manpower for Chile vs. Peru/Bolivia late 1800's and RP to this point:

Army: 20,000.
Navy: (old) 3 Battleships
6 Cruisers
10 Destroyers
1 modern battleship on order from Germania Werft (Wittlesbach class design)

For the record:

British Army:

51 English (and welsh) regiments
10 Scottish regiments
8 Irish regiments
100 Indian Regiments (46 inf 44 cav)

plus other colonies and about twice as much again as militia

(WILL RESEARCH MORE)

Navy

Battleships

Formidable, Irresistable, Implacable (1901).
Canopus, Albion, Glory, Goliath, Ocean, Vengeance (1899)
Majestic, Illustrious, Mars, Jupiter, Hannibal, Caesar, Magnificent, Prince George, Victorious (1895)
Hood (1893)
Royal Sovereign, Empress of India, Repulse, Ramilles, Resolution, Revenge, Royal Oak (1892)
Trafalgar, Nile (1890)
Victoria, Sans Pariel (1890)

Armoured Cruisers
Cressy, Aboukir, Sutlej, Hogue, Euryalus, Bacchante (1901)

Protected Cruisers
Diadem, Amphitrite, Andromeda, Argonaut, Ariadne, Europe, Niobe, Spartiate (1898)
Powerful, Terrible (1897)
Highflyer, Hermes, Hyacinth, Challenger, Encounter (1899)
Arrogant, Furious, Gladiator, Vindictive (1898)
Eclipse, Diana, Dido, Doris, Isis, Juno, Minerva, Talbot, Venus (1896)
Astraea, Bonaventure, Cambrian, Charybdis, Flora, Forte, Fox, Hermione (1894)
Edgar, Crescent, Hawke, Endymion, Gibraltar, Grafton, St. George, Theseus, Royal Arthur (1893)
Apollo, Aeolus, Andromache, Brilliant, Indefatigable, Interpid, Iphigenia, Latona, Melampus, Naiad, Pique, Rainbow, Retribution, Sappho, Scylla, Sirius, Spartan, Sybille, Terpischore, Thetis, Tribune (1891)
Medea, Marathon, Magicienne, Medusa, Melpomene (1889)

Third Class Cruisers

Pelorus, Pandora, Pegasus, Perseus, Pactolus, Pioneer, Pomone, Prometheus, Prosperpine, Psyche, Pyramus (1897)
Pearl, Pallas, Phoebe, Philomel, Katoomba, Mildura, Ringarooma, Tauranga, Wallaroo (1891)

Destroyers

Approximately 80 in service

Torpedo Gunboats

About 30

Torpedo Boats

around 25

Germany, the Americans, British, French, and to a lesser extent, Japanese and Russians need to know if your naval expansion that happened historically is under way at this point.

It has a very definite impact.

Indeed, We Brits must keep up with the Germans!

bump... more tomorrow

(OOC:At this point I don't have much info on the Italian army, will post those numbers soon. As far as the navy goes, I have Italian battleships and such. For British/American naval buildup: I'd say they go for it, in a little bit I'm going to post some things about Italy reducing its army to build a navy to secure Italy's "manifest destiny" to become a major power in the Med. That may have some bearing on the U.S. and Britain, who might see Germany and Italy building up their navies as a bigger threat than in our timeline, considering the two are allied. That is, if Germany is building up their fleet. If not, it's Italy, some new upstart nation who lost to Ethiopia in a war. Who cares?)

General Staff
Giulio Douhet--later founds the Regia Aeronautica (Italian Air Force)
Ettore Pedotti--Minister of War
Carlo Mirabello--Minister of the Navy
Luigi Cadorna--Chief of the General Staff (OOC: in this TL, Cadorna joins the army earlier and accepts at the same time. This is because I can't find any other info, so it's a great way to sidestep the issue. Plus he's already 50, not like he's 18 or something.)

Italian Army

20 Infantry Divisions and 4 Cavalry Divisions organised into 4 armies. 200,000 men here. Light on artillery, though with the German aid Italy can, perhaps, overcome its NCO and officer shortfalls.

24 battallions organised into 7 regiments compose the two Alpini Mountain Brigades, with 7,200 men each.

Italian Navy
(Those in red will be more recent (within 10 years), with those in blue still under construction. Orange=planned, though not currently under construction. Purple=plans for scrapping to make room for the newer warships.)

Battleships x17, including 4 under construction. Another 4 are planned while some ships are to be scrapped.

Duilio Class x2
Duilio (used as floating fuel tank)
Dandolo

Italia Class x2
Italia (functional, though currently used as a training ship)
Lepanto (same as above)

Ruggiero di Lauria Class x3
Ruggiero di Lauria
Francesco Morosini (used as target)
Andrea Doria

Re Umberto Class x2

Re Umberto
Sicilia
Sardegna

Saint Bon Class x2

Emanuele Filberto
Ammaraglio di Saint Bon


Regina Margherita Class x2

Regina Margherita
Benedetto Brin

Regina Elena Class x4
Vittorio Emanuele
Regina Elena

Napoli (finished in 1906)
Roma (finished in 1907)

Savoy Class x4


Galileo Galilei
Leonardo da Vinci
Michaelangelo
Raphael

Armored Cruisers x 6

Marco Polo

Vettor Pisani Class X2

Carlo Alberto
Vettor Pisani

Garibaldi Class X4

General Garibaldi
General San Martin
General Belgrano
General Pueyrredon

Destroyers x 12

Lampo Class X6

Lampo
Freccia
Dardo
Strale
Euro
Ostro

Nembo Class X6

Nembo
Turbine
Aquilone
Borea
Zeffiro
Espero

Submarines x1
Delfino
Glauco

Note: There are two new planned classes of submarines, one for a joint Italo-Spanish project and the other for an Italy-only design. The Italo-Spanish project is, for the most part, mainly planned for export. The Italian project, with John Holland at the helm, will probably be advanced for its time, as the Italian navy will let Holland run wild. He had plans for a sub that could go 22 knots underwater, fast even for the German electro-boats in WWII.

US military deployment 1903

US Pacific Fleet (including Asiatic squadron)
bases at Cavite, San Francisco (with naval yard), Pearl Harbor, bases under construction at San Diego, Los Angeles (San Pedro), Bremerton,
coaling station at Shanghai, Guam, Honolulu, Dutch Harbor, Juneau, Pago Pago (American Samoa),

2 Illinois class Battleships
2 Columbia class protected cruisers
6 St. Louis class protected cruisers,
8 gunboats (mostly in the Philippines)
6 Destroyers
12 misc other ships (colliers, transports, dispatch boats, etc)
Fleet Marine Force of 1 Marine Regiment (4th) plus some detachments

US Atlantic Fleet (includes Caribbean, Mediterrean squadrons)
bases with naval yards at Brooklyn, Boston, Philadelphia, Norfolk, Charleston,
bases at Key West, San Juan (Puerto Rico), Gitmo (Cuba), Colon (Panama), Portsmouth (New Hampshire), Pensacola, New Orleans, Washington DC,

3 Maine (II) class battleships, 6 Connecticut class battleships
8 Olympia class protected cruisers
2 Albany class cruisers
4 gunboats (in the Caribbean)
12 Destroyers
15 coastal submarines
25 misc other ships (colliers, transports, dispatch boats, etc)
Fleet Marine Force with Advanced Base Force (1st, 2nd Regiments), plus 3rd, 5th, 6th Regiments

under construction available 1904 - 1909
30 destroyers, 12 submarines, 4 Virginia class battleships

Planning stages (not yet started)
2 dreadnought type battleships (South Carolina class)
4 battle cruiers (Lexington class)
ocean going submarines, bigger destroyers

The US Army is currently expanding to 98,000 men (including Philippine Scouts)
its actual deployment can be found here
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1914/battleorder.html

Essentially, 45,000 troops are deployed overseas (Philippines, Hawaii, Alaska, and Puerto Rico), remainder are either guarding Mexican border or in garrison, or manning coast artillery positions. In addition, the US Army has 300,000 National Guard in reserve, although they are semi trained at best, and worse armed. However, the Army is undergoing reform, and a very high percentage of its NCOs and Officers have combat experience.

OOC:

I might need some help figuring out my Chinese military, as I'm not that good at military stats or terminology. I know strategy and tactics, though.

OOC:

I might need some help figuring out my Chinese military, as I'm not that good at military stats or terminology. I know strategy and tactics, though.

the Nationalist Army was trained and organized by advisors from Germany historically, in the 1920s.... In this timeline, the US is sending you enough equipment and arms to put together 12 Western style infantry divisions, although they will be very inadequately trained. The US will not send advisors to train the Chinese Army, but I am sure someone will be more than willing to. This gives China an army of about 120,000 men that are reasonably well equiped, and probably a lot more that are poorly equipped and not worth much except as guards or glorified police. China has a ways to go to become a serious military power, but it can be done.

the Nationalist Army was trained and organized by advisors from Germany historically, in the 1920s.... In this timeline, the US is sending you enough equipment and arms to put together 12 Western style infantry divisions, although they will be very inadequately trained. The US will not send advisors to train the Chinese Army, but I am sure someone will be more than willing to. This gives China an army of about 120,000 men that are reasonably well equiped, and probably a lot more that are poorly equipped and not worth much except as guards or glorified police. China has a ways to go to become a serious military power, but it can be done.

Thanks for the info, GB.

What do I have to do to start building gun plants, or at the very least bullet-making plants to replenish the ammo that I'll be using with the USA-provided guns?

Also, I'm thinking of incorporating karate training for my Army, to give them a boost in close-quarters combat where rifles would be somewhat unwieldly to use for quick hand-to-hand fighting. Also, I recall that Karate training (Judo, Kung-Fu, Akikido, etc.) provides disclipine, higher pain tolerance, and improves agility + dexterity.

Karate was invented on the island of Okinawa, or at least in the Ryuku island chain. (I can't remember if it was just Okinawa or one of the other islands) Anyways, it was exported from the island(s) to Japan sometime in the early 1900s, were it eventually gained popularity. When Japan took Korea, Karate and Taekyeon combined to form Taekwon-do. So at the moment it may be odd to have China adopt a (currently) obscure martial art from an obscure island chain. China has its own martial arts, I believe, just research them and find one you want.

Karate was invented on the island of Okinawa, or at least in the Ryuku island chain. (I can't remember if it was just Okinawa or one of the other islands) Anyways, it was exported from the island(s) to Japan sometime in the early 1900s, were it eventually gained popularity. When Japan took Korea, Karate and Taekyeon combined to form Taekwon-do. So at the moment it may be odd to have China adopt a (currently) obscure martial art from an obscure island chain. China has its own martial arts, I believe, just research them and find one you want.

I didn't know that, Fluffy. Thanks for the info. :)

I'll try to research Chinese martial arts and see what I can come up with. I believe if I included martial arts in my military training, it will help my soldiers develop better disclipine, coordination, agility, dexterity, and "think on their feet".

No problem. I used to live on Okinawa (parents in USAF), so if anyone needs to know a few things about the place, I can tell them. Of course, only the Japanese player really would need to know about Okinawa, but that's another story....

But yeah, martial arts probably instill, at the very least, discipline. It may also instill confidence when fighting in close quarters, even if it is not required. "If these guys get any closer, I know *martial art name*, and I'll kill them."

well, I never did find out the actual military of Colombia... so I made one relatively small:

5,000 Infantry (Professional Army, not conscripts)
350 5 ton Trucks

6,000 x Lee-Enfield Rifles 1895
250 x Maxim Machine Guns 1885
500 x Webley-Scott Pistol 1890

Navy:
(being built and/or delivered)

1 x Texas Coastal Battleship
2 x Olympius Class Cruisers
4 x Latest American Destroyers
4 x American Gunboats
2 x Medium-Sized Troop Transports

So, If anyone would like to help me find out Colombias army at this point in time, that'd be nice... also anyone willing to sell Artillery?

well, I never did find out the actual military of Colombia... so I made one relatively small:

5,000 Infantry (Professional Army, not conscripts)
350 5 ton Trucks

thats probably way too small... thats only about 5 -6 regiments... more likely your army is around 50,000 in size, with probably about 30 - 50 battalion sized regiments organized into brigades or acting as garrisons. That probably includes your coast defense gunners as well.

As far as artillery goes, the US is willing to build large forts at Colon and Panama City, if the US mans them alongside Colombian troops. Which works to your advantage as the US would pay for them, equip them, and supply the guns for them, and train your guys to run them.

OCC: Info on the Belgian Military is almost non-exsistant and I have only managed to scavange the information below. However, I have already posted my intensions to increase Belgium's Military Forces to around 300,000 Regular Soldiers, while further Modernizing their equipment and drafting a new Colonial Army out of Congolese Natives and Belgian Settlers. Also, I do have plans for a possible Belgian-made Bolt-Action Rifle, along with possibly a New Machine Gun. Beyond this, however, I hope to adopt either British or German Weaponry depending on who gives me the better bargian.


Belgian Military:

Order of Battle Post-1913/Pre-1913 (http://www.monmouth.com/user_pages/juneblum/BELG14.html#DIVISIONS)

- 117,000 Regular Army Forces
- 267,000 Reserve Forces

The Belgian Military at this time standardized its armaments to French standards and currently fields an arsenal of mostly outdated French Weaponry.

As of the moment, Mandatory service for those reaching 18 years of age by Jan 1, 1903 has been implemented by King Albert the first in an attempt to bolster the Belgian Military. These induviduals will undergo a 15 month training course at Liege or Mons, Belgium before being assigned to military units. All conscripts are required to serve periodically until the age of 30, undergoing 3 month re-training programs before being rotated back into service. Iduviduals unable to serve in Military service are permitted to remain as a Civillian, however they must pay an extra 2% Military Tax added to their yearly Taxes until the age of 30.

At this time the Belgian Navy is non-exsistant, as it was Disbanded in 1862 by the Belgian Government, in favor of Naval Protection by the British Royal Navy. However, I intend to change this with the help of Foriegn Powers.

thats probably way too small... thats only about 5 -6 regiments... more likely your army is around 50,000 in size, with probably about 30 - 50 battalion sized regiments organized into brigades or acting as garrisons. That probably includes your coast defense gunners as well.

As far as artillery goes, the US is willing to build large forts at Colon and Panama City, if the US mans them alongside Colombian troops. Which works to your advantage as the US would pay for them, equip them, and supply the guns for them, and train your guys to run them.

Fair enough then. Want to sell quite a few Springfields to us then so I can outfit the other 45,000 Soldiers?

Fair enough then. Want to sell quite a few Springfields to us then so I can outfit the other 45,000 Soldiers?

the 1903 Springfield, just now being produced, will be offered for sale to Colombia, Chile and Cuba. However, first priority will be the US Army, US Marine Corps, and the State National Guards, then foreign sales will begin.

Surplus Krag Jorgonson rifles will be offered for sale to China, or Colombia, Chile and Cuba if they don't want to wait for the Springfield.

Naval Balance 1904 - 05

Definitions

BB1 – 1st class predreadnought battleship
BB2 – 2nd class predreadnought battleship
BB3 – 3rd class predreadnought battleship
DN – Dreadnought battleship
BC – Battle cruiser
CA – armored cruiser
CL – light or scout cruiser (25 knots +)
CP – protected cruisers (20 knots +)
CP2 – old protected cruiser (less than 20 knots)
PG – gunboat
DD – destroyer (organized into Desron)
TB – torpedo boat (organized into Torpron)
SSC – coastal defense submarine
SS – ocean going submarine
AE – collier, other supply ship
AK – troop transport
Desron – Destroyer squadron of 5 ships
Torpron – Torpedo boat flotilla of 12 ships
Subron – submarine squadron of 6 -12 submarines
Patron – 4 – 10 gunboats




USA
Atlantic --- 9 BB1, 10 CP, 4 PG, 12 DD, 15 SSC, 4 AE, 10 AK, 11 misc other
Pacific --- 2 BB1, 8 CP, 8 PG, 6 DD, 6 AE, 4 AK, 2 misc other
Building -- 4 BB1, 2 DN, 4 BC, 2 CA, 30 DD, 12 SS

Britain
Royal Navy -- , Royal Navy (the British)
Dreadnoughts: Dreadnought (fitting out), Superb, Bellerophen, Temeraire under construction (1907)
Battlecruiser: Invincible (fitting out), Indomitable, Inflexible under construction (1907)

1st Class Battleships: Lord Nelson, Agamemnon, Triumph, Swiftsure, Hibernia, Britannia, Africa, New Zealand, Hindustan, Commonwealth, Dominion, King Edward VIII, Montagu, Albermarle, Russell, Exmouth, Cornwallis, Duncan, Prince of Wales, Queen, Venerable, London, Bulwark, Implacable, Irresistable, Formidable,

2nd Class Battleships: Vengeance, Ocean, Goliath, Albion, Glory, Canopus, Illustrious, Caeser, Mars, Jupiter, Victorious, Prince George, Hannibal, Magnificent, Majestic

3rd Class Battleships: Renown, Centurian, Barfleur, Hood, Royal Sovereign, Royal Oak, Revenge, Resolution, Ramilles, Empress of India, Trafalgar, Nile
37 Armored cruisers, 8 light cruisers, 72 protected cruisers, 120 destroyers, 100 gunboats, 10 AE, 10 AK, but worlds largest merchant marine so essentially unlimited transports


Germany
12 BB1, 12 BB2, 25 CA, 24 CP1, 12 CP2, 7 Torprons, 14 Patrons, 2 Subron

*German battleships trade off range for more armor and better internal compartmentalization
**this is the German hybrid cruiser Blucher, which has more speed than an armored cruiser but is slower than a Battle cruiser.

Under construction
January 1906 3 BB1, 3 CL, 2 Desrons, 2 Torprons, 2 Subrons (in Germany), 1 BB1, 1 Desron (at Split)
January 1907 DN Nassau, Wesfalen,
January 1908 DN Rhenland, Posen, BC Von der Tann, (more are planned but it takes 2 years in emergency mode to build ships dreadnought, armored cruiser or battleship sized, about a year for everything else)




Italian Navy (Regia Marina)
3 BB2, 12 BB3, 6 CA, 7 CP1, 4 Desrons, 1 Patron, 4 Torprons
Under construction
January 1906 1 BB2, 1 CP1, 1 Desron, 1 Torpron
January 1907 1 BB2, 1 CP1, 1 Desron, 1 Torpron
A dreadnought design is being evaluated but won’t be ready before 1908

Russian Imperial Navy
9 BB1, 7 BB2, 7BB3, 8 CA, 7 CP2, 7 Desron, 6 Torpron, 3 Patron
Under construction
January 1906 2 BB1, 1 Desron, (Baltic) 2 CA, 2 CP1, 1 Desron (Black Sea)
January 1907 2 BB1 (Black Sea) 2 CA (Baltic)

Spanish Navy
1 2nd class Battleship (Pelayo), 6 armored cruisers, 1 protected cruiser, 10 destroyers, 4 gunboats

Dutch Navy
6 2nd class battleships, 4 protected cruisers, 10 destroyers, 8 gunboats

Turkish Navy
2 2nd class battleships, 1 3rd class battleship, 3 protected cruisers, 5 destroyers, 8 gunboats
attempting to purchase 6 BB3, 2 Torprons, plus some CP2s (pre 1900 destroyers are really just torpedo
boats at this point)

Japanese Forces
BB1 Asahi,Chinyen, Fuji,Fuso, Hatsuse, Mikasa, Shikishima, Yashima,
Protected Cruisers Adzuma, Akashi, Akitsushima, Asama, Chihaya, Chitose, Chiyoda, Hashidate,
Idzumo, Idzumi, Itsukushima, Iwate, Kasagi, Kasuga, Matsushima, Naniwa, Niitaka, Nisshin,
Otowa, Saiyen, Suma, Takachiho, Takasago, Tatsuta, Tokiwa, Tsukushi, Tsushima, Yaeyama,
Yakumo, Yoshino,
Plus 23 destroyers, 4 gunboats. 20 torpedo boats (5 Desron, 1 Patron, 2 Torpron)

French Navy
1st Class Battleships Henri IV, Suffren, Republique, Patrie with Justice, Democratie, Veritie, Danton, Condorcet under construction (1907, 1907, 1908, 1908)

2nd Class Battleships Charlemagne, St. Louis, Gaulouis, Iena

3rd Class Battleships Jaureguiberry, Charles Martel, Massena, Bouvet
18 Armored Cruisers, 21 protected cruisers, 50 destroyers, 40 gunboats (10 Desron, 4 Patron)

Colombian Navy
1 BB3, 2 CP, 5 DD, 4 PG

Reserved for brazilian national army

Armed Forces: Army, Navy, Securarita (National Guard), Royal Air Force

Service Ages: 18-35, Men admitted as volunteers or drafted, Women can be volunteers, but are exempted from the draft. (6 months of service required unless waived for other civilian purposes or special incapacities)

Structure: Professional Military with a mix of regular local made weapons and equipment as well as equipment from the USDR, Germany, France, Ottoman Empire, Great Britain, United States and other nations helping out.

Total Number of Soldiers approxiately 400,000 men with another 80,000 in National Guard as well as several women's positions...

The Equipment used by the military is being updated constantly to improve the quality and to modernize the military over time...

US Navy hurries up construction, concerned about Germany
4 BB1, 2 CA, 20 DD, 12 SS enter service in 1904
another 6 CL, 20 DDs, 12 SS laid down (enter service 1905)
4 BC, 2 BB enter service 1906, with more CL, DD, SS planned for that year as well

OOC: How do we know how many ships we can build? I know I have a port in Kiel, but other than that, I'm bewildered.

I am using actual US naval construction, modified by occasionally switching out historical ships (I dropped the historical US armored cruisers, built heavier versions or light cruisers instead). Basically I figure everyone is building flat out, as they were historically. The US Navy actually wasn't building flat out, and US ships were slower to build because of appropriations occasionally being delayed and because orders were not placed quickly, causing the private sector yards to build slower to spread out the work and run up the price.

In this timeline, with more orders assured, more money being spent as well, than the ships will be finished faster. I used actual times for the most part for all US ships, speeding them up a bit (as they did speed up between 1906-1912 because of the US Navy buildup)

By 1914, at the current rate, the largest navies will be the Royal Navy, the Germans, the Americans, and then well below us are the Russians, French, Italians, Japanese and Austrians, and then everybody else well below them, with the Colombians, Brazilians having the biggest navies in Latin America, with Argentina and Chile also having some decent units, as do the Spanish.

No one else really has a fleet worth speaking off, except the Swedes and Danes and Norwegians who have a fair sized coastal defense fleet each, and the Dutch, who have a decent little fleet big enough to resist if the Dutch East Indies are threatened (although not to win if facing a major fleet)

Colombian Naval Assets

Current:
1 Battleship (BB3) “Texas”
2 Protected Cruiser (CP) Olympia Class
5 Destroyers (DD)
8 Gunboats
4 Torpedo Boats

Projected for 1910
1 Battleship (BB2 or BB1) Refit Texas
2 Battlecruiser (BC) Alaska Class
6 Armoured Cruisers (CA) Bogota Class
2 Armoured Cruisers (CA) Lexington Class
2 Protected Cruiser (CP) Olympia Class
20 Destroyers (DD)
8 Gunboats (PG)
50 Torpedo Boats (TB)
4 Submarines (SS)

British Naval assets (for 1906, so it includes the ones under construction now)

Battleships
HMS Trafalgar, HMS Victoria 1890
Royal Sovereign class 4 ships 1893
Victorious (1895)
Majestic, Illustrious, Mars, Jupiter, Hannibal, Caesar, Magnificent, Prince George, (1898)
Canopus, Albion, Glory, Goliath, Ocean, Vengeance (1899)
Formidable, Irresistable, Implacable (1901).
London, Bulwark, Venerable, Queen, Prince of Wales (1902)
Lord Nelson class
HMS Agamemnon, HMS Lord Nelson (1906)
Dreadnought Class
HMS Dreadnought (1906)


Armoured Cruisers
Monmouth, Bedford, Berwick, Cornwall, Cumberland, Donegal, Essex, Kent, Lancaster, Suffolk (1903)
Drake, Good Hope, King Alfred, Leviathan (1902)
Cressy, Aboukir, Sutlej, Hogue, Euryalus, Bacchante (1901)
Devonshire class
Devonshire, Hampshire, Carnarvon, Antrim, Roxburgh, Argyll (1904)
Duke of Edinburgh class
Duke of Edinburgh,Black Prince, Warrior, Cochrane, Achilles, Natal (1905)
Minotaur class
Minotaur, Shannon ,Defence (1906)


Protected Cruisers
28 assorted ships 1893-1894
Diadem, Amphitrite, Andromeda, Argonaut, Ariadne, Europe, Niobe, Spartiate (1898)
Powerful, Terrible (1897)
Highflyer, Hermes, Hyacinth, Challenger, Encounter (1899)
Arrogant, Furious, Gladiator, Vindictive (1898)
Eclipse, Diana, Dido, Doris, Isis, Juno, Minerva, Talbot, Venus (1896)
Medea, Marathon, Magicienne, Medusa, Melpomene (1889)

Light Cruisers
19 assorted classes 1894-1897
Arrogant class 4 ships 1896
Pelorus, Pandora, Pegasus, Perseus, Pactolus, Pioneer, Pomone, Prometheus, Prosperpine, Psyche, Pyramus (1897)
Arrogant class
Arrogant,Furious,Gladiator, Vindictive (1896)
Highflyer class
Highflyer, Hermes, Hyacinth (1898)
Challenger class
Challenger, Encounter (1902)
Adventure class
Adventure (1904), Attentive (1904)
Forward Class
Forward, Foresight (1904)
Pathfinder class
Pathfinder, Patrol (1904)
Sentinel class
Sentinel, Skirmisher (1905)
Diamond, Amethyst, Sapphire, Topaze (1904)

Destroyers
Thornycroft "27 knotters" class 16 ships 1895-1896
Thornycroft "30 knotters": Desperate, Fame, Foam, Mallard, Quail, Sparrowhawk, Thrasher, Virago, Angler, Ariel, Avon, Bittern, Earnest, Griffon, Locust, Panther, Seal, Wolf, Star, Whiting, Bat, Crane, Chamois, Flying Fish, Brazen, Electra, Recruit, Vulture, Violet, Slyvia, Mermaid, Cheerful, Osprey, Fairy, Gipsy, Coquette, Cynthia, Cygnet, Bullfinch, Dove, Kestrel, Fawn, Flirt, Leopard, Orwell, Lee, Leven, Peterel, Spiteful, Stag, Greyhound, Racehorse, Roebuck, Success, Myrmidon, Syren, Vixen, Ostrich, Falcon (1897)
River Class 33 ships 1904-1905

Torpedo Boats
"160 footers" 98, 99, 107-117 (1901)

Torpedo Gunboats
34 assorted 1890-1894

Corvettes
Beagle class 2 ships, 1889
Albert class 2 ships, 1894
Phoenix class 2 ships, 1895
Condor class 6 ships, 1898–1900
Cadmus class 6 ships, 1901–1903

Submarines
Holland class — 5 boats, 1901–1902
A class — 13 boats, 1902–1905
B class — 11 boats, 1904–1906
C class — 38 boats, 1906–1910 (15 completed by end 1906)

This is the historical list.

In this history, spurred on by other nations naval building the above list will be hurried slightly and the following additional ships brought forward in production:

Battleships (All to be brought forward by 1 year)
Bellerophon class
HMS Bellerophon, HMS Superb, HMS Temeraire(1907)
St. Vincent class
HMS St. Vincent, HMS Collingwood, HMS Vanguard (1908)
Neptune class
HMS Neptune (1909)
Colossus class
HMS Colossus, HMS Hercules (1910)
Orion class
HMS Orion, HMS Monarch, HMS Conqueror, HMS Thunderer (1910)

Destroyers (To be begun by end 1907 and finished by 1908)
Beagle class 16 ships, 1909–1910

British Army:

At Least:
51 English (and welsh) regiments
10 Scottish regiments
8 Irish regiments
100 Indian Regiments (46 inf 44 cav)

plus all other colonies and about twice as much again as militia in all territories.

With the sale of the Caroline and Marshal Islands, and spurred on by American Buildups, the German Navy plans an additional 4 Dreadnoughts, with the DN Nassau to be completed by 1906, 3 more to be built by 1907, and an additional 5 to be built in 1908-1909.

(OOC:Italian Military in 1905. Includes sales to other nations. Excepting the Regina Elenas, all warships under construction start on Monday.)

General Staff
Giulio Douhet--later founds the Regia Aeronautica (Italian Air Force)
Ettore Pedotti--Minister of War
Carlo Mirabello--Minister of the Navy
Luigi Cadorna--Chief of the General Staff (OOC: in this TL, Cadorna joins the army earlier and accepts at the same time. This is because I can't find any other info, so it's a great way to sidestep the issue. Plus he's already 50, not like he's 18 or something.)

Italian Army

20 Infantry Divisions and 4 Cavalry Divisions organised into 4 armies. 200,000 men here. Light on artillery, though with the German aid Italy can, perhaps, overcome its NCO and officer shortfalls. Cei-Riggoti assault rifles have been adopted in small numbers for the more elite Alpinos. They will have little influence on the outcome of any wars until the tank is invented, where troops will be able to engage in a war of maneuver as opposed to trench warfare.

24 battallions organised into 7 regiments compose the two Alpini Mountain Brigades, with 7,200 men each.

Italian Navy
(Those in red will be more recent (within 10 years), with those in blue still under construction. Orange=planned, though not currently under construction. Purple=plans for scrapping to make room for the newer warships. Green=for sale or being sold.)

Battleships x15. Another 4 are planned while some ships are to be scrapped.

Duilio Class x2
Duilio (used as floating fuel tank)
Dandolo (intention is to sell the Dandolo to China, if China will buy it.)

Italia Class x2
Italia (functional, though currently used as a training ship)
Lepanto (same as above)

Ruggiero di Lauria Class x3
Ruggiero di Lauria
Francesco Morosini (used as target)
Andrea Doria

Re Umberto Class x2

Re Umberto
Sicilia
Sardegna

Saint Bon Class x2

Emanuele Filberto
Ammaraglio di Saint Bon


Regina Margherita Class x2

Regina Margherita
Benedetto Brin

Regina Elena Class x4
Vittorio Emanuele
Regina Elena

Napoli (sold to Brazil, will be sent in 1907)
Roma (same as above)

Savoia Class (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9330450&postcount=894) x4


Galileo Galilei
Leonardo da Vinci
Michaelangelo
Raphael


Vittorio Emanuele II
Duca di Savoja

Note: more Savoy/Savoia (Savoy in Italian) class vessels may be laid down, depending on how many warships Italy can arrange to sell to China and, possibly, other nations. Italy already has sold a respectable coastal defense fleet to Brazil, with profits from that arrangement funding the Savoys being laid in 1905. More profits could mean more ships, with the planned ships being possible names. Also, the design is linked to the name. It includes the 12 x 3" guns GB suggested.

Armored Cruisers x 6

Marco Polo

Vettor Pisani Class X2

Carlo Alberto
Vettor Pisani


4x Vettor Pisani Class (to Brazil)


Garibaldi Class X4

General Garibaldi
General San Martin
General Belgrano
General Pueyrredon

Destroyers x 12

Lampo Class X6

Lampo
Freccia
Dardo
Strale
Euro
Ostro

Nembo Class X6

Nembo
Turbine
Aquilone
Borea
Zeffiro
Espero


10x Nembo Class (to Brazil)

Submarines x1
Delfino
Glauco

Merchant Ships

100,000 tons (to Brazil)
50,000 tons (possible to China, initial reaction was yes)

As you guys can see, Italy's shipyards are going to be quite busy. If orders continue as they have been, Italy is set to make quite a pile of money. My shipyards are probably quite near maxed out (new shipyards come online in 1905), with 325,000 tons total in 1905.

a quick note on military casualties.... whenever possible I will use historical figures for similar campaign (basically the likely Turkish casualties are based on their casualty rate in the Caucasus campaign during the Great War, and most of their dead and crippled will be due to disease more than combat losses.)

A good source also is the book "How To Make War" by James Dunnigan, SLA Marshal's book on World War I, and anything by Keegan. But I have an extensive library on military and naval history, so I use whatever is appropriate.

December 1904
The passage of the newest defense bill at the end of the last legislative session brings about a big change in the US military.

The Army is organized into 12 infantry divisions, with 1 each in the Philippines, Hawaii, and Panama, plus 9 at home. In addition, 2 Cavalry divisions are organized to watch the Mexican border, along with several independent regiments, including 1 in the Philippines. The Philippine Scouts are also formed into a division sized unit, and the coastal defenses of Hawaii, Luzon, and Panama are strengthened (well, they will be strengthened within a year). The National Guard is also federalized, and made part of the Army of the United States, and 20 Infantry and 4 Cavalry divisions are formed. Also 4 Corps headquarters are formed, and the US is divided into 4 regional army commands, plus an Army command for the Caribbean and the Pacific. Alaska gets a brigade, as does Puerto Rico, plus a National Guard brigade each. Coastal defenses are also strengthened at San Juan (Puerto Rico), the entrance of Chesapeake Bay, around New York, Boston, San Francisco, and Seattle. Other coastal defense positions are lower priority but will be strengthened as well. All continental US coastal defense troops will consist of a nucleus of regulars, but will be mostly manned by the National Guard. A lot of money is spent on trucks, which replace wagons in all infantry divisions, although the cavalry still have lots of mules instead of vehicles.

The Navy gets money too. A fleet of 15 battleships, 30 cruisers, and 60 destroyers is set as the initial target, with an eventual goal to match the Royal Navy by 1920 in battleships and destroyers (this is historical by the way). More money is also spent on colliers, and most importantly, on submarines. The first ocean going submarine (as far as actually having enough range to operate a couple thousand miles from home) is entering production as well.

Plans for an all big gun battle cruiser (Lexington class, essentially the British Invincible design) and an all big gun battleship (Michigan class) are finalized, with both to be laid down in 1905 at Newport News and Philadelphia. Construction of a class of 8 x 8 inch gun cruisers (essentially an American version of the Blucher) and 8 x 6 inch gun light cruisers (much faster than the protected cruisers) has already begun and both types will enter service in 1905.

Both the Army War College and the Naval War College are up and running, and so is a general staff structure for both the Army and the Navy. A joint services war plan for possible contigencies in several locations is also developed, with the war plan to deal with Germany as first priority. This of course is secret.

Some money is set aside for aviation, both lighter than air and heavier than air, but so far its more of a possibility than a practicality.

After several years of unsuccesful Zeppelin flights, an unknown German Businessman has planned to buy Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin's designs and begin testing them for use in the Army.

Also, development of more advanced machine guns has begun.

OOC: Sorry for the crappy post. My parent's are being facist and making me go to be early :mad:

OOC:

I gotta be honest here. I'm not good at military stats, so I don't have any idea exactly what stuff, how many soldiers, or amount of equipment that China can operate / have by 1905 (its 1905 now, I believe).

OOC:

I gotta be honest here. I'm not good at military stats, so I don't have any idea exactly what stuff, how many soldiers, or amount of equipment that China can operate / have by 1905 (its 1905 now, I believe).

figure a Chinese Imperial Army of 12 modern Infantry Divisions, 2 modern Mounted Infantry Divisions (probably the Imperial Guard) organized into 2 armies (1st and 2nd Guards, one in Beijing, one available for somewhere else)
modern equipment, well disciplined and very loyal, mediocre training unless you managed to get some advisors, then decent (European level) training. Imperial Guard total strength of about 250,000 men.

Figure about 250,000 other troops that are basically ok as garrison troops but not really able to handle field or campaigning (poor training, less disciplined), but in garrisons of 25,000, with some artillery, adequate to cover your 10 biggest cities other than Beijing. Based on historic numbers and the alterations in the history we have made so far. Your navy has some ships, but once again, depends on advisors to really do much beyond leave port. It takes a while to build military forces to creditable levels, but you would be making progress. A bigger army is simply too expensive for China at this point.

Thanks Galveston Bay.

So basically, I have 750,000 troops?

Imperial Army 1 in Beijing, at 250,000 strong.
Imperial Army 2 for deployment, 250,000 strong.
Imperial Garrisons (250,000 troops but lower training and equipment than Imperial Army 1 and 2)

China has several destroyers and cruisers bought from the USA and probably a couple other nations (I think Italy and maybe England or Japan, not sure).

China has decent artillery and heavy equipment, just enough for Army 1 and 2.

China has no planes or air stuff.



Is that about right?

Thanks Galveston Bay.

So basically, I have 750,000 troops?

Imperial Army 1 in Beijing, at 250,000 strong.
Imperial Army 2 for deployment, 250,000 strong.
Imperial Garrisons (250,000 troops but lower training and equipment than Imperial Army 1 and 2)

China has several destroyers and cruisers bought from the USA and probably a couple other nations (I think Italy and maybe England or Japan, not sure).

China has decent artillery and heavy equipment, just enough for Army 1 and 2.

China has no planes or air stuff.

Is that about right?

no, 500,000, plus about a million militia of fairly useless quality

no one has aircraft, Blimps, or Zeppelins yet, although all of the Big powers are kicking around some ideas now

Major military developments in 1905
Aviation-- well since the most advanced airplane is the Wright Flyer, and it can carry one man and fly at around 60 MPH, and the Zeppelin is still having problems, avaition is still an interesting idea whose time hasn't come yet.

Naval Warfare
A revolution begins October 1905 when the RN builds the first Dreadnought, the HMS Dreadnought. The ship is commissioned in December 1906.. extremely fast for the time (in how quickly built). The US, Japanese, Italians, and Germans are also working on the idea, and the US first Dreadnoughts will follow in early 1907.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Dreadnought_%281906%29

ooc
least anyone else thinks they can build that fast, the British have the most naval shipyards of anyone, and the most expertise. Everyone else is doing good to build a battleship in 3 years. Most British dreadnoughts after this will only take 2 years, while everyone else is stuck with 3 years. At least in peacetime. (in wartime the US and Germany can reduced their times to 2 years)

Ok, assuming I throw hordes of money at Count von Zeppelin, could I speed up Zeppelin research by half a decade?

With the slightly earlier cmpletion of the Dreadnought, the next phase of RN developments can begin. The next ships to be constructed will be the world's first Battlecruisers, thus ensuring Britain's lead in naval innovation.

I quote:

The Invincible class was the first type of true battlecruisers built anywhere in the world. They were the brainchild of Admiral Sir John (Jackie) Fisher, the man who had sponsered the construction of the world's first all big gun warship, HMS Dreadnought. He visualised a new breed of warship, somewhere between the armoured cruiser and battleship - it would have the armament of the latter, but the high speed of the former.

They could manage in excess of 28 knots and consisted of three ships:
Invincible
Inflexible
Indomitable

They are expected to be complete by 1907 due to the extra resources the anvy is using due to the completion of Dreadnought and the developing arms race across the world.

Quicker completion of these innovative designs will allow for completion of 6 more battlecruisers of the Indefatigable and Lion classes by 1909-1910.

OOC: I'm not sure where japan is at about now, any help would be appreciated

OOC: I'm not sure where japan is at about now, any help would be appreciated

information on your navy as of 1905 can be found here
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9369433&postcount=55

look up the Russo-Japanese War online and you will find lots of information on the Japanese Army, Navy and military leaders of this period. http://www.russojapanesewar.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japanese_War

http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/romeo/russojapanese1904.htm

http://www.gwpda.org/naval/rjwargun.htm

combat value of your ships can be found here

http://www.wtj.com/games/battlefleet_1900/

more information can be found here
battleships of the world

http://home.att.net/~wellsbrothers/...nchBBtable.html

links will take you to other nations

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/cruisers3.htm

all about cruisers and battleships and other classes

In my attempts to modernize the Austro-Hungarian Navy, I'm trying to design my own ships. However, I'm not sure if their fiezable so if anyone could help me out it would be appreciated greatly.

Kaiser Franz Ferdinand Class Dreadnought:
Displacement: 24,500 tons
Length: 546 ft (166 m)
Beam: 93.3 ft (28.4 m)
Draft: 29.5 ft (9.0 m)
Propulsion: 3 shaft Vertical Triple Expansion, 28,000 ihp (21 MW)
Speed: 21 knots (39 km/h)
Complement: 1150 officers and men
Armament:
10 x 12 in (305 mm) (5x2)
8 x 6 in (152 mm) (4x2)
4 x 3.5 in (88 mm) (4x1)
6 x 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes
Armor:
Belt: 5 to 7 in (127 - 178mm)
Turrets: 10 in (254mm)
Deck: 3 in (75mm)
Conning Tower: 10 in (254mm)

Admiral Haus BattleCruiser:
Displacement:
17,890 tons standard
21,500 tons full load
Length: 570 ft (174 m) overall
Beam: 78.5 ft (23.9 m)
Draught: 26.7 ft (8 m)
Propulsion: 4 screws, Parsons turbines, 52,000 hp (39 MW)
Speed: 24 knots (48 km/h) (trials)
Range:
6330 nautical miles (11,720 km) at 10 knots (19 km/h)
2290 nautical miles (4240 km) at 23 knots (43 km/h)
Fuel capacity:
3134 tons of coal
750 tons oil
Complement: 804
Armament:
10 x 12 in (305 mm) (5x2)
8 x 7.5 in (190 mm) (4x2)
6 x 4 in (102 mm) (6x1)
6 x 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubs
Armor:
Belt: 4 to 6 in (102 - 152mm)
Turrets: 4 to 7 in (102 - 178mm)
Deck: up to 3 in (75mm)
Conning Tower: 10 in (254mm)

Those displacements are H00g3 for 1905-06!

Armour is a bit light, armament a bit excessive for a Battlecruiser, etc etc.

a bit large, but by 1911 you can have those.... although why Austria Hungary wants a battlecruiser eludes me... but its your decision

look at your historical fleet, its actually pretty good

http://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyAustrian.htm#key

http://www.wtj.com/games/battlefleet_1900/ships_at.htm

http://www.gwpda.org/naval/fdah0001.htm

OOC: I might need some help calculating the Korean Armed Forces. I do have some ships purchased from Italy, and I do have a consignment of 50,000 Cel-Rigotti rifles.

OOC: I might need some help calculating the Korean Armed Forces. I do have some ships purchased from Italy, and I do have a consignment of 50,000 Cel-Rigotti rifles.

last information I saw was this

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9110504&postcount=6

Essentially, figure you are starting from scratch, that you have Austrian advisors (as they have troops in your country), and a maximum of 1% of your population is really available for permanent military service.

So basically, as military moderator, I recommend that Austria be responsible for organizing your army and navy ;)

Sounds like a plan.

a bit large, but by 1911 you can have those.... although why Austria Hungary wants a battlecruiser eludes me... but its your decision

look at your historical fleet, its actually pretty good


I'm pretty happy with it for now, but its fun to imagine what I can make it into. Also, while having a good track record during WWI, a couple of the websites I found said that the main problem with the AH fleet was it was outdated often by the time the new ships were commisioned.

Essentially, figure you are starting from scratch, that you have Austrian advisors (as they have troops in your country), and a maximum of 1% of your population is really available for permanent military service.

So basically, as military moderator, I recommend that Austria be responsible for organizing your army and navy

Sure, just throw all the responsiblity onto me! I don't mind. No seriously, I don't mind.

Ok, I'm not technological genious, but, from what I've read, the Cei-Rigotti thing sounds like it sucks as a standard weapon. It jams and that's why I've heard it never went into use. I mean, if the Italians want to have a jammy gun, I'm cool, I'm just questioning the wisdom of doing so.

The Cei-Riggotti did jam, though from what I've read that was due to the magazine, and possibly because of the ammo (though I could never find out _why_ the websites decided the ammo was bad). If it is something silly like ammo, then a few quick modifications to factories will make it run better. But the purpose is not to give a better gun, but to speed up assault rifle development.

Sounds good :p

Actually, me researching more on Google only found copies of eachother and said the British wouldn't use it. So it's pretty vague. Go for it says I.

Same with me. Almost all of the websites were copies of Wikipedia. However, I did discover that the gun has magazines of 10, 25, and 50 rounds. And apparantly Germany tested the gun in 1909 and found it interesting, but switching it to the larger German ammo didn't exactly increase killing power ;) . Since it appears likely that there is war looming over eastern Europe, the gun will actually be used in combat. Then, during or after the war, a Cei-Rigotti 190* with increased reliability would be created.

Ok. I kinda figured out my army from this site (http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~maampo/militaer/milindex.html).

German Army

45 Regiments organized into 23 Army Korps with various Cavalry and artillery assistance

Parthini']Ok. I kinda figured out my army from this site (http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~maampo/militaer/milindex.html).

German Army

45 Regiments organized into 23 Army Korps with various Cavalry and artillery assistance

important note: that site also has information on the Austrians, which might come in handy very, very soon it appears.

As far as the Italian assault rifle goes, remember, most casualties in 20th century warfare come from artillery, not small arms fire. So what is really more important is how many field and heavy artillery pieces your army has, then how many crew served machine guns, and then, and only then, how good your infantry small arms are.

I understand that. The main reason for assault rifle development is exports. Already the Cei-Rigotti has sold 51,000 units worldwide. The same has proven true for Italian shipyards: probably around 200,000+ tons of merchant ships and warships for export. Artillery production will go up soon, financed in part by large sales of rifles and warships.

Already the Cei-Rigotti has sold 51,000 units worldwide.

Ah yes......say, when do those things make it to Korea?

It depends. If the war in eastern Europe does break out, then the Korean order will be, shall we say, postponed until the war's end. If it doesn't break out, then Italy is swimming in excess weapons and will gladly sell the weapons to pretty much everyone, and Korea will get its shipment around late 1906. That is due more to the "we are waiting for our enemies to attack" rather than supply problems.

OOC:

I'm not quite sure what China has for guns and such. Right now, China has started domestic production of ammunition and infantry guns to outfit its entire military.

Right now, China has USA Springfield rifles and maybe some British ones as well. How long do you figure for China to design its own weapon based off the USA and British designs? By 1906? 1907? Or what?

As for warships, already bought a few from the USA. Domestic shipbuilding will probably commence in 1907 or so. More stuff may be bought from Italy.

By the way, I'm still waiting for the Italians to arrive in the Forbidden City to begin discussions of shipbuilding, weapons, investments, etc.

OOC:

I'm not quite sure what China has for guns and such. Right now, China has started domestic production of ammunition and infantry guns to outfit its entire military.

Right now, China has USA Springfield rifles and maybe some British ones as well. How long do you figure for China to design its own weapon based off the USA and British designs? By 1906? 1907? Or what?

As for warships, already bought a few from the USA. Domestic shipbuilding will probably commence in 1907 or so. More stuff may be bought from Italy.

By the way, I'm still waiting for the Italians to arrive in the Forbidden City to begin discussions of shipbuilding, weapons, investments, etc.

actually, the US sold the Chinese Krag Jorganson rifles, about 300,000 total, all surplus as the Springfield reached American troops. The Springfield is still restricted to US troops, then the Philippine Scouts, Colombians and Chileans at the moment.

A few machine guns and light mountain howitzers were also provided.

Sharina: OK, I'll just post something in the Chinese timeline thread about sending negotiators. Expect that in just a few minutes....

Brigade Relocation is to happen over the next few weeks:

2 Divisions sent to the Ottoman Empire to join the other 2
3 Divisions to garrison the Syracuse Naval Base
1 Divisions to join 3 Brigades in Venezuela
1 Divisions to be split and hold Africa

10 Divisions are headed to Silesia in response to Austrian and Italian moves
13 Divisions to head to the French border

10 Divisions to continue usual garrison

To China

Germany is willing to supply China with the traditional Mauser 98 and the corresponding ammunition.

actually, the US sold the Chinese Krag Jorganson rifles, about 300,000 total, all surplus as the Springfield reached American troops. The Springfield is still restricted to US troops, then the Philippine Scouts, Colombians and Chileans at the moment.

A few machine guns and light mountain howitzers were also provided.

My apologies. I easily lose track of weapon names and designations. Would a trade for those Springfields be possible any time soon? Or is it out of the question for a few more "years"?

Parthini]To China

Germany is willing to supply China with the traditional Mauser 98 and the corresponding ammunition.

Post your offer in my Chinese "Timeline" RP thread, and we can strike a deal there. :)

In response to Germany's moves, Italy will move 6 brigades to garrison Syracuse proper. Meanwhile, Italy has moved 10 infantry divisions, 4 cavalry divisions, and the two Alpini mountain brigades to Cracow, Austria-Hungary. At home, factories are beggining to churn out artillery pieces, presumably of German design (gotta love Germany building weapons factories in Italy ;) ). Krupp Model 1903 would be what I'm building if of German origin. If not, I am building artillery of unknown make or model as the only Italian gun I could find was made in 1877, with no stats on anything but caliber and many references to an (apparantly unrelated) Finnish something or other.

Meh.

Edit: GB said to wait, so for the pursuit of science, I will crash

IC: After a substantial donation from an unknown businessman, Count von Zeppelin has made the LZ2, which made a test flight in Swabia. It travelled several km for a few minutes. However, both engines failed and it crashed into a nearby mountain. Von Zeppelin plans to rebuild and try again.

Secret IC to China and Germany:

The Vietnam Republican Army is seeking to purchase weapons. We wonder if China will allow Germany to ship weapons through their territory to reach our revolutionaries.

We primarily seek rifles, machine-guns, and artillery plus instructors to show us how to use them. Will Germany sell us these weapons?

China, it will probably not be until 1906 before Springfields are available, but they will be offered for sale.

Germany, please wait until next year for the Zeppelin, he learned a lot from that crash actually, important stuff for aviation

in a side note, the US discovers Helium in 1906, and then doesn't sell it to anyone (chuckle).... but does use it for its own balloons. There is only one source of Helium in the world (natural source) at this time, its in Texas

I'll let it crash... if I can have helium O_o

Just kidding. You are talking about the LZ2 and not the LZ4 right? They both crashed.

Also, GB can you get on Chatzy? http://www.chatzy.com/684093003041

Russia has begun a limited mobilization, so now the Austrian generals are going to jump up and down and insist that the Austrian Hungarian Empire do the same.

This will cause the Serbs to mobilize, and I would expect the Bulgarians to mobilize too, followed by the Rumanians, Albanians, and Greeks.

This doesn't guarantee war, but makes it very likely now

The big key is if Germany mobilizes. If that happens, the French would mobilize (and I will handle them until the player returns or is replaced).

Germany, I need to know if the Schleiffen Plan is going to automatically happen if Germany mobilizes. If it doesn't, it will prevent the German army from doing anything much for about 2 weeks because of logistics difficulties (switching troops from the West to the East will take a lot of time and there will be confusion)

Military Plans:

The main AH army is planning to hunker down in the event of an invasion. However, if an invasion is launched, the large amount of Italian forces along with some AH army forces are planning on invading Poland and conquering it if possible.

Oh, and I have no plans on attacking eastern russia through Korea. I don't want to throw my brand-new ally into a war.

Should I assume then that Austria is mobilizing? And assuming that, is it a partial (only some parts of the empire) or full (everybody)?

I am going to use World War I numbers and organizations, as its available. Actually the armies are slightly (although not much) smaller, but its a good place to start with.

Austria has called up about half of its reserves so far, and is preparing to call up the rest. Most of the reserves have been put to work building defenses because as I said earlier, the AH army is going to remain mostly on the defensive.

Sharina ICly mentioned bandits along the Korean-Chinese border. Would it be advisable to test Korean troops on these bandits?

In the event of Franco-German War, japan would be forced to be involved and probably garrison and protect French Far Eastern and Pacific Colonies so that french forces could return to Europe and Africa to help defend their homeland. If britain becomes involved, well Hong Kong and New Guinea would be open for assualt(I doubt I could do both though) Depending on what sort of help I could get from the United States I'd probably Attack the Dutch East Indies.

Sharina ICly mentioned bandits along the Korean-Chinese border. Would it be advisable to test Korean troops on these bandits?

Sure, be my guest. :)

In the event of hostilities involving the Western Hemisphere Chile will stand by it's alliance with the United States of America and Columbia. The navy would participate with these powers in any activity along the Pacific Coast of South America, and the Straits of Magellan. President Molina would also offer Chilean bases as needed to the United States.

Ok folks, its Thursday, which makes it August September 1905... will the Russians attack, and who?

This is the sequence I have,

The Austrians forciably annexed Montenegro
The Russians were not amused and mobilized their Western Military Districts (everything west of the Volga I assume, plus probably some districts between the Urals and Volga)
The Austrians have partially mobilized (my guess, although its not clear, is that they mobilized the younger reservists but did not mobilize the Czechs, who are restive, or the older reservists).

The Serbs are therefore mobilizing (everything) and making overtures to the Greeks, Bulgarians, and Albanians to help them against the Hapsburgs (Serbia being handled as an NPC)

At this point, the German generals are going to approach the Kaiser and ask him what he wants to do. Germany does not have a plan for partial mobilization, its all or nothing. At this point the Schleiffen Plan is on paper and is the Army warplan. That means invading Belgium to defeat France quickly to then allow for the defeat of Russia.

The German generals aren't very naval minded, so Tirpitz is going to ask what to do as well.

Its rapidly approaching now or not until next year for the Russians, because the weather will get bad very soon.

Italy has just instituted conscription, and is attempting to pump out 300,000 troops for a total of about 500,000. 10 infantry divisions and 4 cavalry divisions are in Cracow, along with the two Alpini mountain brigades. Italian weapons factories are humming along quite nicely now, with the main focus being on artillery. The Italian navy is also preparing to leave port for any fleet operations, moving all of its ships on the Adriatic coast to the western coast of Italy. All ships currently under construction--excluding merchant ships--have been placed under wartime construction to help speed things up.

As a further note, I start school on the 24th. I have chosen many challenging classes this year, so I may or may not have much time to post after that. Well, at least this year they are actually counting all my credit this time. (This is my third high school. We moved from Alabama to Virginia, and then to a different county in Virginia. With my odds, I'll move again next year and have finished high school with one school for each year. And every school will have conflicting credit requirements and decide they don't like my credits from the last one. Oh Lord, we Americans need standard education requirements so that this foolishness does not happen.)

OOC: I already sorta mobilized, moving about a third of my army to Silesia in case anything happens. And no, I will not not be using the Schleiffen Plan, as so far, my attentions are directed at Poland. Since I'm kinda short on time I'm going to outline Germany's stance.

Germany believes that if an Indepenant Poland is created, then poles in Germany will leave. So Germany will not allow an independant Poland to be created. Umm, other than that, Germany will remain neutral as both of its allies are fighting. Think of it as a crucible to determine who gets Germany's favor, until Poland gets fucked with.

thanks Germany, that was helpful....therefore the French do not mobilize (unless he comes back next week and does it, but who knows)

I will hold off on US moves against Germany in Venezuela as well for a bit

German Naval Movements:

The German base at Syracuse is evacuated and destroyed within a few hours and the entire fleet begins heading to the Aegean sea towards Istanbul.

The German Fleet in Venezuela remains on guard with 2 BB, 4 Crusiers, and 8 destroyers heading to the Azores.

The entirety of the German Fleet in the North and Baltic Seas begins moving to the Azores to meet up with the Venezuelan.

Austro-Hungarian Fleet Movements:

1 Battleships, 2 Cruisers and 5 Destroyers along with numerous transports are moving to Korea to remove the ten thousand men and support personel stationed there. From there they will move to Nicaragua, depost the men and head home around the cape.

4 Cruisers and 7 Destroyers along with several fully loaded transports are heading to Nicaragua and will remain there for the time being.

Kordo, the Austrian Hungarian Generals and Admirals are getting a bit restive.. they aren't ready to give up yet, and they are really angry by the German declaration of war against Italy, which has fought bravely alongside of them. The fleet refuses to sail to Korea, and the General Staff is demanding that the Kaiser show some backbone and they flat refuse to let the Germans pass into Tyrol. Better to die with honor is the general consensus.

Parthini and Fluffywuffy, check the war thread for the results of the first great naval battle of the 20th Century.

The Ottomans are trying to send the 1st,2nd,3rd, and 4th army cores to Romania in order to support their allies, Yet we need permission from Burgalria to move thought their lands.

French Military Orders

The French Army has mobilized it's reserves and has been ordered to began moving troops to the Italian and German borders. Half of the Mediterranean Fleet has steamed out of port and is currently heading East. The French Mediterranean Fleet is composed of eleven battlships (pre-dreadnaughts), four protected cruisers, and eleven armored cruisers, plus 43 destroyers and 18 submarines, and 12 torpedo gunboats/cruisers.

At the moment five battlships, two protected cruisers, six armored cruisers, and twenty destroyers, five torpedo cruisers, and four submarines are steaming east.

Battleships at Sea
Democratie
Justice
Republique
Patrie
Suffren

Protected Cruisers at Sea
Pothuau
Surcouf

Armored Cruisers at Sea
Dupetit-Thouars
Gueydon
Dupleix
Desaix
Kleber
Conde
Marseillaise
Victor Hugo
Jules Ferry
Jules Michelet
Gloire

Torpedo Cruisers at Sea
Cyclone
Boree
Tramontane
Mistral
Trombe

IT IS WAR!

France has delcared war against Imperial Germany and her allies! All troops are to be thrown into the offensive. Two thirds of the regular army are involved in the German-Front Offensive. (Roughly 600,000 men) The Reserves ar ordered to the front. The reaming third of the Regular army is to be ordered to the Italian-Austria-Hungary front. The Italians will hopefully allow them to pass.

The Ships currently at sea in the Med are ordered to find and engage any enemy shipping they come across the Reaminder of the Med fleet is to be put to sea.

ooc
please telegram me what ever plans you have. Please include activities in the colonial regions like Africa for example. Please be patient, as I have to figure out how exactly this will play out.

principal war thread for European operations is here
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=437598

by the way, should I assume that Indochina remains loyal to you?

ooc
please telegram me what ever plans you have. Please include activities in the colonial regions like Africa for example. Please be patient, as I have to figure out how exactly this will play out.

principal war thread for European operations is here
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=437598

by the way, should I assume that Indochina remains loyal to you?

Yes. Assume it does unless another player wants it.

TG sent.

TG'd you new naval orders.

Naval Orders

With the navy now basically ignoring anything the Kaiser orders, a majority of the fleet has set sail from ports in Italy (where most of it had been stationed) and has headed towards the Ottoman's coast.

Naval Orders

With the navy now basically ignoring anything the Kaiser orders, a majority of the fleet has set sail from ports in Italy (where most of it had been stationed) and has headed towards the Ottoman's coast.

ooc
I will figure out what happens with your fleet tomorrow... probably looking at another major fleet action with a combined Italian/Austrian fleet meeting a combined Russian/Turkish fleet somewhere around Crete... most likely late April 1906 as it takes time to plan these things

incidently, have you added anything to your fleet that isn't historical, and for that matter, I have lost track of what the Ottomans have. Can the player please post an updated "what the player has added to the historical fleet" list.

Italy, Russia, France and Germany, can you please also update your navies too, and where the major ships are deployed.

The Austro-Hungarian Fleet as it stands now:

Navy
3 modern dreadnoughts, 24 destroyers, 13 cruisers (4 armored, 4 protected, 5 light) and 9 battleships (pre-dreadnought design), 9 submarines, 4 coastal defense ships (maned with reserves), 6 torpedo gunboats, and 30 torpedo boats.

The Austro-Hungarian Fleet as it stands now:

actually, those are semi dreadnoughts, but they are still more powerful than a BB1. Need Turkey though, he added some stuff, scrapped some stuff, and I have lost track... I will look it up tomorrow, but can't tonight.

Alright, I have updated my list of ships, I have scrapped numbers of old out of date ships and kept a few.

Alright, I have updated my list of ships, I have scrapped numbers of old out of date ships and kept a few.

please tell me how many of each type or where to find them :)

The Navy as of 1904


Hamidieh Class(Battleships)
Hamidieh January 1885

1 Trafalgar class

1 Victoria class

4 Royal Sovereign class

7 Battleships in total

Cruisers

Heibetnuma Class
Heibetnuma 30th January 1890

Lufti Humayun Class
Luft Humayun 16th August 1892

Light Cruisers
Arrogant class -4 ships

Protected Cruisers -10

Roon Class Armoured Cruisers -4

20 Cruisers in total

Destroyers

Berk I Efsan 1892
Tayyar 1893
Thornycroft "27 knotters" class -20

22 Destoryers in total

Torpedo Boats

Timsah 1885
Simir I Hidsum 1884
Mecidiye 1885-1890
Mahabet 1887
Gilyom 1886
Nasr 1888-1892
Ejder 1890
"140 footer" class- 10

17 torpedos boats in total

Corvettes
Mariner class -2 ships
Nymphe class -2 ships

4 Covrettes in total

Thanks Turkey, expect a big battle tomorrow at sea

French Atlantic Fleet
9 Battleships
11 Armored Cruisers(five ready for action)
Four Protected Cruisers (The three damaged ones have been scrapped and the resources used for more Armored Cruisers)
10 Destroyers

French Med. Fleet
All the info I have for this one is from 1914. As such it is not very accurate. I've tried to extrapolate from thosse numbers.

Five pre-dreadnaught battleships
eight armored cruisers
seven protected cruisers
fourteen destroyers

Current:
1 Dreadnought “Colombia” (formerly Texas)
4 Armoured Cruisers (CA) Bogota Class
2 Protected Cruiser (CP) Olympia Class
15 Destroyers (DD)
8 Gunboats
24 Torpedo Boats

Projected for 1910
1 Battleship (BB2 or BB1) Refit Texas 100%
2 Battlecruiser (BC) Alaska Class 0%
4 Battlecruiser (BC) Madrid Class 0%
10 Armoured Cruisers (CA) Bogota Class 40%
2 Armoured Cruisers (CA) Lexington Class 0%
2 Protected Cruiser (CP) Olympia Class 100%
20 Destroyers (DD) 75%
8 Gunboats (PG) 100%
50 Torpedo Boats (TB) 48%
4 Submarines (SS) 0%

Heres the stats that I plugged into Springsharp for the Madrid Class BC

Madrid, Colombia Battlecruiser laid down 1906

Displacement:
14,897 t light; 15,643 t standard; 15,643 t normal; 15,643 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
554.50 ft / 550.00 ft x 84.58 ft x 24.42 ft (normal load)
169.01 m / 167.64 m x 25.78 m x 7.44 m

Armament:
8 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (4x2 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1906 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1906 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, all amidships
16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 5,000 lbs / 2,268 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
5 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes, 4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 334.95 ft / 102.09 m 11.04 ft / 3.36 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 215.03 ft / 65.54 m 11.04 ft / 3.36 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 334.95 ft / 102.09 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 334.95 ft / 102.09 m 21.03 ft / 6.41 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 10.0" / 254 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.70" / 43 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 31,451 shp / 23,462 Kw = 28.72 kts

Complement:
699 - 909

Cost:
£1.332 million / $5.329 million (in 1906. I've made enough profit from selling guns to cover this!)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,774 lbs / 9,877 Kg = 43.5 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 3.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 18.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 96 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.49

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.482
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.85 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.50 ft / 1.37 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.80 ft / 7.86 m
- Forecastle (22 %): 25.80 ft / 7.86 m (20.42 ft / 6.22 m aft of break)
- Mid (70 %): 20.42 ft / 6.22 m (16.42 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (17 %): 18.42 ft / 5.61 m (16.42 ft / 5.00 m before break)
- Stern: 18.42 ft / 5.61 m
- Average freeboard: 20.74 ft / 6.32 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.7 %
Waterplane Area: 31,702 Square feet or 2,945 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 142 lbs/sq ft or 696 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.68
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

And there ya go. Still looking for a submarine design to adopt for Colombia.

The Australian navy has 3 cruisers, 8 destroyers, 15 torpedo boats and a few gunboats right now.

France what naval assets do you have in the Asian/Pacific area?

And GB what I'm about to do now is strike Caledonia for Britian with those six regiments and my navy.

France what naval assets do you have in the Asian/Pacific area?

And GB what I'm about to do now is strike Caledonia for Britian with those six regiments and my navy.

assume the French just have gunboats...although the British Empire is not at war with the French Empire, and the British government has a certain amount of say so over your foreign policy, and the RAN is under the command of the RN. So before your navy will actually carry out those orders, it will require permission from the British player.

coincidently, and this literally happened apparently while you were typing your initial post

IC
The US government and French government reach an agreement where the US government will establish bases on the French islands of Tahiti, Clipperton, Guadalupe, Martinique, as well as French Guyana (famously known as Devils Island). In exchange, the US Navy will transfer to the French Navy 4 Olympic class cruisers and 10 older destroyers. This is in line with the Pan American Treaty calling for the mutual defense of each others territory and to provide the US Navy with a base to escort American shipping in the South Pacific.

Yes. Assume it does unless another player wants it.

China is interested in Indochina.

Well, at Caledonia there is probably some gunboats, a few destroyers and maybe a cruiser. Most of the big stuff in the Pacific is probably staioned in French Indo-China.

Any troops there would most likely be a small garrison of French Regualrs backed-up by native militia or irregulars.

IC
The US government and French government reach an agreement where the US government will establish bases on the French islands of Tahiti, Clipperton, Guadalupe, Martinique, as well as French Guyana (famously known as Devils Island). In exchange, the US Navy will transfer to the French Navy 4 Olympic class cruisers and 10 older destroyers. This is in line with the Pan American Treaty calling for the mutual defense of each others territory and to provide the US Navy with a base to escort American shipping in the South Pacific.

OOC: Talk about timing. Does this mean that America will come to France's aid in Caledonia if things go down?

China is interested in Indochina.

yeah, well I was talking about another player who wanted to play as Vietnam, etc. If you want to invade it or buy it from me...

yeah, well I was talking about another player who wanted to play as Vietnam, etc. If you want to invade it or buy it from me...

I think purchasing Indochina is the best way to go, as the money will go a long way to helping your war economy and such, while allowing your troops to remain in France, defending it from the Germans and such.

Australia.. lets see what the British have to say first

China, the Indochinese actually hate you worse than they hate the French.. now that would be an interesting Indochina war

Colombia, if you build that fleet, you will not be able to afford to keep it up economically. Unless you cut severely your army. About half that size I think.

Australia.. lets see what the British have to say first

China, the Indochinese actually hate you worse than they hate the French.. now that would be an interesting Indochina war

Colombia, if you build that fleet, you will not be able to afford to keep it up economically. Unless you cut severely your army. About half that size I think.

I'm actually up for a RP involving Indochina. Heres the basic idea...

China buys it from France, and annexes it. France is able to re-deploy troops to more critical areas for the upcoming war, while having a healthy amount of money to fund the war effort. (This was done by France in RL, regarding the sale of Louisiana to the USA to fund Napoleon's wars).

Once Indochina has been sold to China, then China will move in and deal with any rebellions and revolts. A steady influx of new Chinese settlers will displace a good number of those rebels, and eventually Indochina will be majority Chinese. This would be a similiar situation with Israel and the Palestinians in RL nowadays.

I believe this would be a good RP, a nice change from "War!" "War!" "War!" stuff. Gives this Earth a more civilian and "everyday-life" feel.

Once Indochina has been sold to China, then China will move in and deal with any rebellions and revolts. A steady influx of new Chinese settlers will displace a good number of those rebels, and eventually Indochina will be majority Chinese. This would be a similiar situation with Israel and the Palestinians in RL nowadays.

I believe this would be a good RP, a nice change from "War!" "War!" "War!" stuff. Gives this Earth a more civilian and "everyday-life" feel.

well, it would be different...lol... sort of genocidal, but different. Seriously though, the Vietnamese have lots of traditional heros that got that way fighting China.. so it sure wouldn't be a peaceful takeover very long

well, it would be different...lol... sort of genocidal, but different. Seriously though, the Vietnamese have lots of traditional heros that got that way fighting China.. so it sure wouldn't be a peaceful takeover very long

I'm fully up for the challenge. Gives China something to do in the meanwhile, as well as give a new kind of RP for Earth 1900 - 2000 people to read and try out (Britain can learn a lesson or two for the eventual conflict with India and Australia).

I think purchasing Indochina is the best way to go, as the money will go a long way to helping your war economy and such, while allowing your troops to remain in France, defending it from the Germans and such.

well, I have colonial troops to defend it and could probably get quite a few Vietnamese volounteers.

I'm not sure if I really want to sell it, though. It's a valuable source of rubber and other things.

OOC: Where are my Syracuse POWs located? I think, since 1906 is gonna be pretty boring, a good escape story would be fun.

Australia: I wouldn't reccomend any operations against French territory yet. I am still on fairly neutral terms in Europe and my people do not wish to be involved in another potentially bloody war. Though of course there is the possibility of the situation deteriorating somewhat and war being a possibility in which case you would be given all rights to freely plunder and occupy French colonies (as long as it didn't bring you into conflict with the US). However that situation is a while off yet and may not even occur.

I suggest that we just sit back and wait for the war to end before making a killing on trading goods with the devestated countries afterwards! Whilst still selling the coalition arms and ammunition in the meantime.

On a similar line, please note that all trade with any of the league countries (Spain, Austria-Hungary, Italy, France) is now postponed until the war has ended as per the alliance with Germany.

The British have signed a trade agreement with Russia, it will supply the Russian military with ammunition, arms and other military supplies on a deferred payment scheme. The Russians will only be charged interest equal to the rate of inflation and will only be required to pay back the "lend lease loan" once the war is over. The only consequences being increased trade concessions with Russia and also the majority of foreign trading rights with any new captured territory.

This is expected to aid Russian war efforts slightly and also relieve their own overworked factories which should help civilian morale a bit.

A similar agreement has been in place with Germany since the signing of the alliance and trade with her is likely to remain unaffected.

Lee-Enfield and other British corporations ahve embarked upon a large scale expansion exercise and are likely to open new factories across the Empire to cope with this increased demand.

well, I have colonial troops to defend it and could probably get quite a few Vietnamese volounteers.

I'm not sure if I really want to sell it, though. It's a valuable source of rubber and other things.
Russia would support a Chinese invasion. I'm not sure how exactly, since all our men and materiel are bent towards achieving victory in Europe, but it sure would make us (and your German friends) very happy.
And Russia does not forget.

Australia: I wouldn't reccomend any operations against French territory yet. I am still on fairly neutral terms in Europe and my people do not wish to be involved in another potentially bloody war. Though of course there is the possibility of the situation deteriorating somewhat and war being a possibility in which case you would be given all rights to freely plunder and occupy French colonies (as long as it didn't bring you into conflict with the US). However that situation is a while off yet and may not even occur.

I suggest that we just sit back and wait for the war to end before making a killing on trading goods with the devestated countries afterwards! Whilst still selling the coalition arms and ammunition in the meantime.

On a similar line, please note that all trade with any of the league countries (Spain, Austria-Hungary, Italy, France) is now postponed until the war has ended as per the alliance with Germany.


Meh, misunderstood your tg, my fault. Since were gonna stick to trade, you wouldn't mind opening a few munitions factories in Australia?

Yeah sorry Australia, I changed my mind after the first TG due to some new historical facts coming up that Britain was very anti-war in this period and had to limit myself to non-intervention.

Russia would support a Chinese invasion. I'm not sure how exactly, since all our men and materiel are bent towards achieving victory in Europe, but it sure would make us (and your German friends) very happy.
And Russia does not forget.


Japan most definetly does NOT support an invasion of french Indochina by China. Both China and France are Allies of the Japanese and most certainitly Japan would view an invasion of of French territory by the Chinese as a most unfriendly act towards the Empire of Japan. Furthermore Continuing Russian and German influence in China concerns Japan. As an ally and a friend Japan suggests that China hold off on any military relations between those hostile and belligerant powers and herself.

Galveston Bay here, Problems during the war for the Belligerents:

1. Mass infantry assaults are incredibly costly, however, there is little choice as there is a shortage of experienced junior officers, troops and especially NCOs to try anything complicated. Losses the first year were very high in junior leaders, and there hasn't been enough time to adequately train their replacements yet.

2. There is still a shortage of 105 and bigger artillery pieces, and most divisions still have 24-48 75 mm guns, and a handful of heavier peices, while corps and armies don't have enough (generally only a couple of dozen 105 or bigger guns). This means that artillery cannot clear wire, or destroy trenches or dug outs without shooting for literally days (which takes a LOT of ammunition), and therefore the infantry attack is more costly.

3. Although all of the bigger armies are working on this, its very expenisive, time consuming, and in the meantime, the 75 mm gun does a great job breaking up enemy infantry assaults, so ammunition still has to be produced for it.

4. Cavalry is simply a easier target for machine guns except for a very few areas, and has not found an important role. The French, Germans, Russians and Austrians have lots of horse soldiers without a role. The Austrians have already had to disband most of their regiments to fill out their depleted infantry regiments. The Russian generals in particular however are dreaming of the day they get a breakthrough and can commit their Cossacks and Hussars.

5. Without cavalry, there is no pursuit arm, and although the British and French are working on armored cars, they aren't really a weapon yet either.

6. Scouting is reduced to infantry patrols, and occasional dirigibles and Blimps. However, as the front is mostly static, this isn't a real problem at the moment tactically, although its still a problem strategically. However, both sides have managed to operate reasonably effective intelligence services to date.

7. Battleships and armored cruisers operated by the Americans, ritish, French, Germans, Austrians and Italians all have wireless telegraph (ie radio), and some Russian battleships do. Communications security however is in its infancy (although expect it to show up soon).

8. The Italians have had a couple of successes with submarines, and the Germans, British, Italians and French are building more. However, these are still essentially coastel vessels, not able to do much more than patrol within 100 miles of their home ports. The Americans have developed a submarine with a 500 mile range, and the Germans and British are doing the same.

9. The Germans, British and Americans are working on hydrophones to listen for submarines, no one else has a defence, and there is not yet a way to attack submarines underwater, although a number of novel (and outlandish ideas) are being considered. Depth charges are a couple of years away.

10. No airplanes available yet, they are still glorious toys, but the bigger powers are pouring money into either rigid (dirigibles or Zeppelins) or non rigid (Blimps) airships. The French and American navies are actually experimenting (Americans) or using them (French) for coastal scouting.

11. The Arabs, the misc Balkan residents, and the Poles living in former Austrian Poland, are beginning or practicing guerilla warfare. Little success or even not much worthy of notice yet except in the Balkans and Middle East, where its becoming a problem for rear area security.

12. The generals of the bigger armies have come up with a wonderful idea to break the trench deadlock.... massive unrelenting artillery bombardment and then the infantry will walk across practically unopposed. They are all looking forward to trying it this year (ooc.... expect a LOT of casualties, worse than last year)

ooc
Sorry, no tanks, really, NO TANKS. Maybe in another couple of years. However, any other weapon used in 1915 on land is now available.... let the bloodletting begin.

Germany, I need to know what your plans are for 1907

I know what Italy, France and Russia have planned, I have no idea what the Austrians are planning although I have suspecions...

send me a telegram and let me know

I've reposted the Italian navy. I have not factored in losses yet (will eventually add that in) but I have included (in green) all the new warships that have just been crewed. None of the ships to be sold have been transfered (polite notes saying that this is war, desperate measures are called for, and the ships will be replaced if sunk or repaired if damaged, following the war) and all foreign bought ships have the Italian flag hoisted up their mast. Italian-built ships (made specifically for the Italian navy) are in orange. GB also stated that Italy manufactured some torpedo boats, destroyers, subs, etc. in a far earlier post, so those have to be factored in.

Italian Navy

Battleships x19 + 3 (in 1908) = 22


Duilio Class x2

Duilio (used as floating fuel tank)
Dandolo

Italia Class x2
Italia (functional, though currently used as a training ship)
Lepanto (same as above)

Ruggiero di Lauria Class x3
Ruggiero di Lauria
Francesco Morosini (used as target)
Andrea Doria

Re Umberto Class x2

Re Umberto
Sicilia
Sardegna

Saint Bon Class x2

Emanuele Filberto
Ammaraglio di Saint Bon


Regina Margherita Class x2

Regina Margherita
Benedetto Brin

Regina Elena Class x4
Vittorio Emanuele
Regina Elena

Napoli
Roma

Savoia Class x4


Galileo Galilei
Leonardo da Vinci
Michaelangelo
Raphael



3x Savoia class (will not see service until 1908)

Armored Cruisers x 6 + 8 = 12


Vettor Pisani Class X2 + 8 = 10

Carlo Alberto
Vettor Pisani


4x Vettor Pisani (possessed from Brazil)
4x Vettor Pisani (possessed from Korea)


Garibaldi Class X4

General Garibaldi
General San Martin
General Belgrano
General Pueyrredon

Destroyers x 12 + 20 = 32

Lampo Class X6

Lampo
Freccia
Dardo
Strale
Euro
Ostro

Nembo Class X6 + 20 = 26

Nembo
Turbine
Aquilone
Borea
Zeffiro
Espero


10x Nembo (from Brazil)
10x Nembo (from Korea)

Galveston, i will be setting up a group of about battalion strength of the most experianced troops and officers left in the Macedonian army(Called the Volci, or Wolves), they will be used much like the Stosstruppen of World War II, i am supposed to be getting the flamethrowers and hand-grenade shipments soon, so you could probably start factoring them in around Feb. of next year to accomadate for training and equipment arrival.

They will fight with Flamethrowers, rifles, pistols, bipod mounted machine guns, TNT, and hand-grenades. They will attack on nights of low moonlight, use wire-cutters to get through the barbed wire and attack enemy trench lines at night. They will cause the most amount of chaos and damage possible, take anything that would be of use (anything of intelligence value), and get out of the target area, pull back to friendly lines before dawn, and then have R&R for about 2-4 days and then attack another section of the enemy lines.

This will hopefully cut down on friendly losses on the front, as my generals will send troops into areas that have been A) weakened by the Volci B) Attack areas that, should League troops catch on and start redeploying more troops to areas recently hit by Volci, feature weakened numbers of enemy troops via redeployment. or C) just let their troops fight defensively and not send troops over the top at all except for Volci.

Also i hope this will cut down on enemy morale, increase enemy fatigue, perhaps destroy numbers of their machine guns nests and possibly during in-depth missions destroy munition caches and artillery peices.

I don't mind if they don't make a huge impact, but i was just trying to come up with a way for Macedonia to influence the Balkan front some, while minimizing Macedonian losses.

I'm not sure if flamethrowers have been invented yet.

he said any weapons used in 1915 on the ground except for tanks are able to be used, and germany used the flamethrower in 1915. So i am getting Germany or Russia to make some for me.

If the United States Approves the request for ships Japan plans to have a 3 Dreadnought, 2 Battlecruiser, 3 Semi-Dreadnought and 10 Pre-Dreadnought Navy.

Japan will also be beginning development of Submarines and Increase Construction of Destroyers.

Alright the weapons i needed are being provided by Germany, and should arrive well within the time until the unit deploys for action. Oh well, my military is only getting better as the war goes on from my view point, because my military had no conventional experiance before now :P

The US is planning to build a fleet of 20 dreadnoughts by 1920, plus have 40 cruisers, 80 destroyers, and 80 submarines. Basically to ensure that no one short of the British will be able to challenge the United States in its home waters (historical US plan by the way). The US is also experimenting with 14 and 16 inch guns, electric turbine engines, and aircraft, although it will be a decade before most of those show up operationally.

All pre dreadnoughts will be out of service by 1914, and some will be offered up for sale. At that time the US will have 10 dreadnoughts and 4 battlecruisers. If it becomes necessary, such as if the Germans try to match that, the US will build more until the Germans can't. Which should be doable since the Germans have to spend a lot more on their army that the US does.

ooc
I will be posting the 1908 naval balance later this week.. there are far fewer pre dreadnoughts than there used to be. Costly business surface battles.

France is also embarking on an era of naval expansion. They are going to be rebuilding their own navy and scrapping or selling off outdated ships. By 1918 they plan to have 10 Dreadnaughts in service, plus 30 or so cruisers, 80 destroyers, and around 70 submarines.

The navy is following the American's lead and looking into electric turbines, 14 an 16-inch guns, and aircraft. They are looking into attaching torpedos to aircraft and using them as attack craft.

The Army is experimenting with armored cars and rumors persist about some sort of heavy armored vehicle. The Army is also working on aircraft as a recon vehicle. Steel helmets are being issued during training, as they stop shrapnel much better then cloth caps. Lighter machine-guns are being developed and the new infantry doctrines will revolve around using the machine-gun to lay down covering fire while the rest of the infantry advance.

Two divisons of French troops have been deployed temporarily in Palestine to discourage any Ottoman ambitions and help the new government train its troops.

South Africa would like to inquire to the United States and France about the purchase of certain naval vessels, particularly lighter vessels such as cruisers and destroyers. Our needs at the moment do not call for heavier battleships or dreadnaughts, though we are of course not averse to discussing their purchase as well.

I know its not hte proper place but France get on chatzy.

I know its not hte proper place but France get on chatzy.

Got a link?

http://www.chatzy.com/684093003041

While the German Army begins the long, tedious effort of rebuilding Austria, the Navy begins rethinking. In their eyes, the Zeppelins were a success. The Navy begins developing larger and more efficient Zeppelins that use petrolium instead of coal. With an almost perfect track record, some local buisinessmen begin to buy designs for what they were originally intended for: peace.

A test commercial Zeppelin is built and begins a flight from Munich to Berlin, and is a success. Soon, plans for another half dozen Zeppelins are made, and so are schedules. Although very expensive for now, more efficent designs to allow for middle classes to fly are being made.

However, on the sea, drastic changes are made. Germans have lost their taste for war, for now, and thus, the Navy begins to suffer. 80% of the Dreadnoughts will be scrapped or sold and a focus will begin on much faster and efficient Crusiers and Destroyers. This new navy no longer has a dream of mastering the seas. It now only wishes to remain control of the Baltic and its colonial holdings.

Italy is following the Franco-American lead and has begun building up its navy, and by 1915 it is hoped that all pre-dreads will be sold or retired and the fleet will be modern, etc. etc. Italy wants to become the main power in the Med., and is to have 12 dreadnoughts, 25 cruisers, 80 destroyers, and 60 submarines. The army is losing the budget wars, and is being downsized. Research for the army will continue, but it will not be as large as before and will return to peace-time levels shortly depending on how the Washington Treaty goes.

Parthini']While the German Army begins the long, tedious effort of rebuilding Austria, the Navy begins rethinking. In their eyes, the Zeppelins were a success. The Navy begins developing larger and more efficient Zeppelins that use petrolium instead of coal. With an almost perfect track record, some local buisinessmen begin to buy designs for what they were originally intended for: peace.

A test commercial Zeppelin is built and begins a flight from Munich to Berlin, and is a success. Soon, plans for another half dozen Zeppelins are made, and so are schedules. Although very expensive for now, more efficent designs to allow for middle classes to fly are being made.

However, on the sea, drastic changes are made. Germans have lost their taste for war, for now, and thus, the Navy begins to suffer. 80% of the Dreadnoughts will be scrapped or sold and a focus will begin on much faster and efficient Crusiers and Destroyers. This new navy no longer has a dream of mastering the seas. It now only wishes to remain control of the Baltic and its colonial holdings.

China would like to make inquiries into German assistance that was promised upon the conclusion of the Great War. For a start, China would like to purchase the remaining German dreadnoughts to aid in defense of the Chinese coastal waters and large rivers such as the Yellow and Yangzte Rivers.

To: China

Germany remembers its deal with the Middle Kingdom. At this time it is impossible for Germany to sell China our remaining dreadnoughts, and many of our ports are busy with production of Ottoman ships. However, after the Ottoman navy is started, we will set aside a dock for Chinese ships. Thus, 2 Dreadnoughts and their escorts should be ready by 1910. However, we would be happy to begin supplying the new Chinese Army as well as send over officers to assist in training.

I appologize for delaying our offers so, but the Ottomans have sacraficed so much, I must promise them something in return.

Parthini']To: China

Germany remembers its deal with the Middle Kingdom. At this time it is impossible for Germany to sell China our remaining dreadnoughts, and many of our ports are busy with production of Ottoman ships. However, after the Ottoman navy is started, we will set aside a dock for Chinese ships. Thus, 2 Dreadnoughts and their escorts should be ready by 1910. However, we would be happy to begin supplying the new Chinese Army as well as send over officers to assist in training.

I appologize for delaying our offers so, but the Ottomans have sacraficed so much, I must promise them something in return.

Secret communication to Germany:
From: China

Greetings.

The position of Germany and the Ottomans are quite understandable. China shall await its turn, or so to speak for German built naval vessels. However, I have heard that you plan on scrapping or scuttling several German vessels. Would it be possible if China could purchase those ships destined for scuttling?

Your offer of German officers and supplies is gratefully accepted. China would also like to make inquiries into Germany lending their aid in China's industrialization such as additional factories, more efficient machinery, zeppelins, and the like. Once China is fully industrialized and has a fully equipped military, we will be more than able to contribute a good-sized hand should Germany find itself in another Great War or major war in the future. China never forgets its friends and those who has helped it in its hours of need.

We look forward to building a solid and lasting relationship between our two peoples.

~Emperor Guozu

OOC: Ok. I need help setting up my army. I know right off the bat i need a powerful navy and airforce when the time comes. the reason Im having trouble with is that I dont know what weapons they would use or what shape is there ecomney in. Some help here??

The Ottoman Arm forces
As of Jan,1909

The Ottoman Army- A Single Army cores can be at 10,000 troops at its lowest and 20,000 troop at max.
Army Core as of 1909, the standing army
150,000 troops( 100 fully trained)
Number of Army cores:24 Army cores at the moment.
300,000 Reservist cores(only call to duty in times of war, well trained)

Ottoman Marine Core-40,000 troops(well trained)
Four Divisions-10,000 each

The Navy as of 1909

Cruisers

Heibetnuma Class
Heibetnuma 30th January 1890(Training Ship)

Lufti Humayun Class
Luft Humayun 16th August 1892(Training Ship)

Light Cruisers
Arrogant class -4 ships

Protected Cruisers -7

Roon Class Armoured Cruisers -4

Destroyers

Thornycroft "27 knotters" class -13

Torpedo Boats

Timsah 1885
Simir I Hidsum 1884
Mecidiye 1885-1890
Mahabet 1887
Gilyom 1886
Nasr 1888-1892
Ejder 1890
"140 footer" class- 10

The following ships will be produced by Briain shortly (based off historical dates):

Post-Dreadnought battleships
St. Vincent class
HMS St. Vincent, HMS Collingwood, HMS Vanguard (1908)
Neptune class
HMS Neptune (1909)
Colossus class
HMS Colossus, HMS Hercules (1910)
Orion class
HMS Orion, HMS Monarch, HMS Conqueror, HMS Thunderer (1910)
King_George_class_
HMS_King_George_V, HMS_Centurion, HMS_Audacious, HMS_Ajax (1911)
Iron_Duke_class
HMS_Iron_Duke, HMS_Marlborough, HMS_Benbow, HMS_Emperor_of_India (1912)
HMS_Agincourt(1913)
HMS_Erin (1913)
HMS_Canada (1913)
Queen_Elizabeth_class
HMS_Queen_Elizabeth, HMS_Warspite, HMS_Barham, HMS_Valiant, HMS_Malaya (1914)
Revenge_class
HMS_Royal_Oak, HMS_Royal_Sovereign, HMS_Revenge, HMS_Resolution, HMS_Ramillies (1915)
TOTAL: 31 battlesips by 1915

Cruisers
5 heavy by 1910
71 light and medium by 1917

Destroyers
492 by 1920 (yes really!)

Corvettes
100 by 1918

Submarines
193 by 1919

Again all above are done by historical launch date.

naval technology advances:
Diesel-electric subs by 1908 (D class and later)

Superfiring system developed on HMS Neptune in 1909 (all turets in echelon and rear turrets can fire over each other) allows for better all round firing.

First Super Dreadnought developed (HMS Orion, firing 13.5" shells form 10 guns)

First use of 14" guns (HMS Canada 1913)

First use of 15" guns (HMS Queen Elizabeth, 1913)

Extensive anti-submarine defences built for the first timw in 1914 around Scapa Floe, consisting of tonnes of concrete and lots of anti-torpedo netting to render the anchorage virtually safe against all submarines.

ooc: does anyone have any stats for the Mexican army around the civil war?

Zackaroth: You're Cuba right?

If so, I'd probably approach on eof the "Great Powers" for naval vessels, if your not too fussy many have old navy vessels that they seek to get rid of at cheap prices (better to sell them thant o scuttle or scrap them). I for example, as Great Britain, can offer you the following: (PRICES PER VESSEL)

Gunboats
34 assorted Torpedo Gunboats from 1890-1894 (around £20,000)

Corvettes
Beagle class Corvettes 2 ships, 1889 (£30,000)
Albert class Corvettes 2 ships, 1894 (£40,000)
Phoenix class Corvettes 2 ships, 1895 (£50,000)

Destroyers
Thornycroft "27 knotters" class Destroyers 16 ships 1895-1896 (£70,000)

Cruisers
Protected Cruisers 19 assorted 1893-1894 (£90,000)

Battleships
HMS Trafalgar, HMS Victoria Battleships 1890 (£150,000)
Majestic, Illustrious, Mars, Jupiter, Hannibal, Caesar, Magnificent, Prince George, 1898 (£200,000)
Canopus, Albion, Glory, Goliath, Ocean, Vengeance 1899 (£240,000)
Formidable, Irresistable, Implacable 1901 (£270,000)
London, Bulwark, Venerable, Queen, Prince of Wales 1902 (£300,000)
HMS Agamemnon, HMS Lord Nelson 1906 (£350,000)

Any nation is able to purchase any of the above.

For defending an island such as yours you'll probaly want a lot of Gunboats and Corvettes supplemented with a load of Destroyers, a few cruisers and maybe a battleship as a flag vessel. For a more expeditionary forceyou'll want some more big ships for large scale bombardments and clashes with other fleets.

Though as I say for an island such as Cuba a few of the smaller vessels should suffice, if you don't want British ships (thoug we are the best shipbuilders in the world!) then ask Germany or the US. They're also modernising their navy and will have loads of obsolete ships to sell off cheaply.

Yuwait: have been able to find little detail on the size of the mexican army during the revolution. But they appear to have been regularly organised along European lines. A good reference I have found is this website:
UNIFORMS, TACTICS, AND EQUIPMENT OF THE MEXICAN REVOLUTION (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Bunker/7475/mexrevuniforms.htm)

It details all uniforms, weapons etc. and is very good. It describes how the Mexican revolutionaries never really operated in fixed unit sizes but were usually upwards of around 50 men per unit (a leader of such a unit was always a "general") and how organisation types were often misused (for wexample a battalion could have as few as 20 men in or an artillery battery consist of only one gun). Pancho Villa''s men were more organised than other rebel leaders and tended to use proper army nomenclature more.

The Mexican Amry was extremely "Europanised" and consisted of standard Europena army structure with machine gun companies and army wide supply units as well as extensive cavalry forces. Both sides made great use of the railways.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

What nations are still left?

All the information you could ever need on this RP can be found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=424002&page=1)

Any natiosn not listed, as well as those listed as NPC are up for grabs. Also you can request to take over any nation listed with a question mark next to their name as these players are not very active and ar eon probationary status. Oh and if you're looking for a country might I suggest one that is not in Europe, it's very crowded at the moment (South America looks good about now).

if you have any further questions post them at the above thread and we'll answer them there.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Are you kidding, thats stuffs great! Thanks :)

The Ottoman Arm forces
As of 1920

The Ottoman Army- A Single Army cores can be at 10,000 troops at its lowest and 20,000 troop at max.
Army Core as of 1920, the standing army
200,000 troops( 100 percent fully trained)
Number of Army cores:30 Army cores at the moment.
400,000 Reservist cores(only call to duty in times of war, well trained)

Ottoman Marine Core-80,000 troops(well trained)
Eight Divisions-10,000 each

The Navy as of 1920

Battleships

2 Dreadnoughts class battleships (built by the British, by 1911)

6 coast defense battleships of the Sveirge class

Cruisers

6 Cruisers(build by the Germans,by 1915)

Light Cruisers

8 Light Cruisers(build by the Germans, by 1915)

Destroyers
20 Destoryers(build by the Germans, by 1915)

Torpedo Boats
30 Torpedo Boats (build by the Germans, by 1915)

The Ottoman Arm forces
As of 1920

The Ottoman Army- A Single Army cores can be at 10,000 troops at its lowest and 20,000 troop at max.
Army Core as of 1920, the standing army
200,000 troops( 100 percent fully trained)
Number of Army cores:30 Army cores at the moment.
400,000 Reservist cores(only call to duty in times of war, well trained)

Ottoman Marine Core-80,000 troops(well trained)
Eight Divisions-10,000 each

The Navy as of 1920

Battleships

2 Dreadnoughts class battleships (built by the British, by 1911)

8 Dreadnoughts class Battleships(build by the Germans, by 1915)

Cruisers

10 Battlecruisers(build by the Germans, by 1915)

16 Cruisers(build by the Germans,by 1915)

4 Roon Class Armoured Cruisers

Light Cruisers
Arrogant class -4 ships

18 Light Cruisers(build by the Germans, by 1915)

Destroyers
24 Destoryers(build by the Germans, by 1915)

10 Thornycroft "27 knotters" class

Torpedo Boats
"140 footer" class- 10
30 Torpedo Boats (build by the Germans, by 1915)

Submarines
10 U-Boats(build by the Germans, by 1915)

that is too big a navy for your economy, especially since for the first 10 years after the war you are paying off that rather huge war debt.

I would suggest 2 dreadnoughts, 4 cruisers, 20 destroyers, a bunch of torpedo boats, and maybe 2 - 6 coast defense battleships of the Sveirge class
(see this link) http://www.navwar.freeserve.co.uk/SWEDWW2.htm

GB, alright I going to edit my list to fact that in.

OOC: I want to make a few things clear. Zeppelin has patented his designs and the desgins of Zeppelins are quite heavily guarded, only being shared with a few allies. Also, commerical airlines are very small and only go across Germany for now.

OOC:

I think I have a rough sketch of what economic, infrastructure, industrialization, etc. that China will take between 1908 - 1920.

However, I'm at a loss for China's military. I'm not that good with stats and such, so any help figuring out China's military would be quite helpful. For starters, I want to invest in blimps and airplanes, beginning to use automobiles for troop transport (Army Trucks), train my troops to Westerner standards of training, and start building a Chinese Navy...

Also, I'd like to know when I can create Chinese designed and built guns, ships, vehicles, etc. Not only that, but what would be the limitations on Chinese native-built stuff?

Right now in 1908, I believe China is at Tech Level 4 and an Economic rating of Fair (more development on its way with massive German and British aid, as well as a lot more trade with more nations like Ottomans, Australia, Colombia, USA, Russia, etc.)

China, figure 30 infantry divisions equipped and trained to Western standards, still weak on logistics though. Figure a navy equal in size to the Navy China had in the Sino-Japanese War of 1894 (and double it in size), figure a small air corps of a couple dozen aircraft and a couple of Blimps.

look up the Sino Japanese War Battle of the Yalu for what that navy looked like (and some ideas on ship names)

GB, could I have word with you on Chatzy,

China, figure 30 infantry divisions equipped and trained to Western standards, still weak on logistics though. Figure a navy equal in size to the Navy China had in the Sino-Japanese War of 1894 (and double it in size), figure a small air corps of a couple dozen aircraft and a couple of Blimps.

look up the Sino Japanese War Battle of the Yalu for what that navy looked like (and some ideas on ship names)

Thanks for your advice, GB.

I'd like to know specifically why logistics will still be weak after 12 years?

Also, do you have e-mail or AIM? I'd like to hammer out some stuff, as I have quite a long list of things that I have planned for China to do in the next 12 years.

Thanks for your advice, GB.

I'd like to know specifically why logistics will still be weak after 12 years?

Also, do you have e-mail or AIM? I'd like to hammer out some stuff, as I have quite a long list of things that I have planned for China to do in the next 12 years.

send me a telegram and I will let you know my email

Oops, missed aircraft carriers out of my previous list. The following aircraft carriers will be active by 1920:

HMS Argus (1916)
HMS Furious (1916)

Glorious class
HMS Glorious (1916)
HMS Courageous (1916)

HMS Vindictive (1918)
HMS Eagle (1918)

After the civil war is over, Mexico's armed forces will be reorganised as follows:

Army

100,000 regular troops (volunteers)
150,000 reservists (conscripts)

5 Regular infantry divisions – 10,000 men each
2 Light Infantry divisions – 10,000 men each
2 Elite Infantry divisions – 10,000 men each
2 Cavalry divisions – 5,000 men each

14 Reserve Infantry Divisions – 10,000 men each
2 Reserve Cavalry Division – 5,000 men each

Uniform & Weapons: Khaki trousers and jackets, with white shirts, straw brimmed hat, turned up at one side and with a hatband. All infantry and cavalry units will carry Winchester rifles.

Japan is now up to a force of

250,000 Highly trained regular army(highly fanatical as well) (17 divisions)
Armed with a modification of the Mauser 1898 to accept the the 6.5mm round. As well it has been shortened to the length of the K98
50,000 Naval Special landing infantry (5 Divisions)

A lot of experimenting is being done with the Higgins Type boat

This is pending approval from the United states(I'm hoping you would sell me rights on these.
Sidearm: M1911A1 .45 ACP (no more pistols that will just randomly fire if you press the side of them)
Automatic Rifles (Browning Automatic Rifle M1918A1(modified to accept the standard 6.5mm round of the Japanese with a 30 round magazine instead of 20 due to the smaller round)
Sub Machine Gun (M1921(when it comes out)Thompson firing .45 ACP rounds)

Navy

11 Dreadnoughts (with plans for 4 more(Nagato Class) to be completed in 1921, 1922, 1923)

3 Aircraft Carriers of the Kaga Class

3 Semi-Dreadnoughts

Gotta do more research on the smaller ships but that should give you an idea of where I'm at.

The Mexican Navy: after the civil war, the Mexican navy will be upgraded as follows.

1 Battleship
15 Cruisers
10 Destroyers
4 Torpedo Boats

The Mexican Navy: after the civil war, the Mexican navy will be upgraded as follows.

1 Battleship
15 Cruisers
10 Destroyers
4 Torpedo Boats

you don't have the money or the economy or the trained personnel to man or buy this fleet.... however, the US would be willing to sell you a couple of older protected cruisers, and 10 older destroyers and a dozen gunboats... that you could man and more importantly, pay to operate.

sorry, i did get carried away a bit. I couldnt find any sources so just used a percentage of other powers. Id fotgotten that iv got just about the weakest economy in the world at the minute though. Mexico will gladly buy anything you offer, can i have some more details please?

Here is the full structure of the Professional Mexican army (The regulars)

Mexican Regular Army Structure

1st Infantry Division (Regular)
Strength: 10,000
Recruited from: Guerra
Commander: Fernandez Cresco

2nd Infantry Division(Regular)
Strength: 10,000
Recruited from: Sonaro
Commander: Lorenzo Virgilio

3rd Infantry Division (Regular)
Strength: 10,000
Recruited from: Baja California
Commander: Alfonso Mendez

4th Infantry Division (Regular)
Strength: 10,000
Recruited from: Jalisco
Commander: Fernandez Cresco

5th Infantry Division (Regular)
Strength: 10,000
Recruited from: Guerra
Commander: Fernandez Cresco

6th Infantry Division (Light)
Strength: 10,000
Recruited from: Yucatan
Commander: Alano Turi

7th Infantry Division (Light)
Strength: 10,000
Recruited from: Chiapas
Commander: Sancho Paz

8th Infantry Division (Elite)
Strength: 10,000
Recruited from: Chihuahua
Commander: Benidicto Fresco

9th Infantry Division (Elite)
Strength: 10,000
Recruited from: Veracruz
Commander: Gilberto Terciero

1st Cavalry Division
Strength: 5,000
Recruited from: Mexico City
Commander: Ricardo Carvaghio

2nd Cavalry Division
Strength: 5,000
Recruited from: Nuevo Leon
Commander: Franco Guevo

Here is the full structure of the Professional Mexican army (The regulars)

Mexican Regular Army Structure snip

I am pretty sure you mean division instead of battalion here

eeeek, i cannot belive i put battalion instead of division. thanks for pointing it out :headbang:

you don't have the money or the economy or the trained personnel to man or buy this fleet.... however, the US would be willing to sell you a couple of older protected cruisers, and 10 older destroyers and a dozen gunboats... that you could man and more importantly, pay to operate.

can i have some ship specifications and prices please?

Galveston Bay, Is my stuff Cool?

can anyone give me the Israeli military numbers for 1948 just after independance, that'll help me lots.

Galveston Bay, Is my stuff Cool?

yes, your military is appropriate and appears to be based on historical model, and the US is willing to let you produce US small arms under license.

Your carriers are a little later though, I would suggest a couple conversion jobs from protected or armored cruisers to get experience working with carriers... that is what the US is doing. The British converted battle cruisers in this timeline, apparently because he has more than he needs.

By 1920 Brazil's army will have been fully retrained and re-equipped by France and will consist of the following:

Army

210,000 regular infantry in 21 divisions
10,000 cavalry in 1 division
4 motorised reconaissance brigades

25 reserve infantry divisions - 250,000 reserve infantry
1 reserve cavalry division - 10,000 reserve cavalry

Artillery will be French surplus as will small arms and infantry weapons such as machine guns and personal weapons. There is also a 45,000 strong elite infantry section specially trained by the Tenth and Eleventh South African Kommando for mountain warfare, jungle warfare, and also proficient in insurgency and counter insurgency tactics.

Airforce

A few biplanes for reconaissance purposes. Nothing really combat worthy.

Navy

2 modern cruisers
5 out of date destroyers
8 motor torpedo boats
35 steam gunboats for river patrol
Numerous small PT boats. Some are torpedo armed.

I've decided that while Italy will maintain its historical 1920s fleet, it will have two converted Regina Elena battleships to serve as carriers. They aren't really intended for offensive operations but will primarily serve as long-range scouts. As a secondary duty the carriers will try to aim for the head and send what torpedo bombers they have against the enemy battleships. If a war breaks out and these carriers prove to be succesful, then perhaps more carriers will be converted/made.

As far as an airforce goes, men like Secondo Campani (I am not so sure on this guy's name) will not make the useless thermojet engines. A few aircraft (like 5 tech demonstrators) will have them, but the Italians will recognise it as a total failure and abandon it. I am not sure if the thermojet popped up in 1920 or not, but this is for reference. Giulio Douhet, the founder of the Regina Aeronautica (which will be founded about 1912 in this timeline), still writes The Command of the Air, which was influential in America, France, and Germany. Instead of calling tactical air support wasteful, Douhet will argue that it is better to concentrate on tactical air support. He will, as he did historically with tactical air support, call strategic bombing frivalous. It is something, this ATL Douhet argues, that will instead inspire the enemy to fight on.

Regardless of what effect Douhet has on the rest of the world, Douhet will make the Italian airforce dependent on the fighter-bomber, with some heavier bombers. In the event of war with Germany, the Italian air force will send its bombers to hit German airfields in Austria, while the rest of the air force attacks German positions.

By 1920 Brazil's army will have been fully retrained and re-equipped by France and will consist of the following:

Army

210,000 regular infantry in 21 divisions
10,000 cavalry in 1 division
4 motorised reconaissance brigades

25 reserve infantry divisions - 250,000 reserve infantry
1 reserve cavalry division - 10,000 reserve cavalry

Artillery will be French surplus as will small arms and infantry weapons such as machine guns and personal weapons. There is also a 45,000 strong elite infantry section specially trained by the Tenth and Eleventh South African Kommando for mountain warfare, jungle warfare, and also proficient in insurgency and counter insurgency tactics.

Airforce

A few biplanes for reconaissance purposes. Nothing really combat worthy.

Navy

2 modern cruisers
5 out of date destroyers
8 modern frigates
Numerous small PT boats. Some are torpedo armed.


the frigate is an anti submarine vessel which hasn't really seen use yet because noone has fought an antisubmarine warfare campaign yet.... torpedo boats (basically a mini destroyer) are the same size however. Motor torpedo boats are reasonable for Brazil, but a few steam gunboats (as in the old use for them) are useful for patroling Brazil's many rivers

strategic bombing still falls into the realm of science fiction (HG Wells story"War in the Air") although Zeppelins could probably do it. I am guessing since we haven't fought a war in the air yet the even fighters are more of the armed scout variety instead of what we think of of World War I era Sopwith Camels and Fokker Triplanes.

I would say at this point military aircraft are armed scouts, single engine bombers, seaplanes, and single engine torpedo planes. The fighter for air superiority and the twin or multi engine bomber simply haven't been needed so far. However, a twin engine transport plane carrying a handful of passengers or mail or light cargo should be in commercial service in some places, which can easily lead to heavier bombers once a war starts.

Belgian Army in 1920

Total Numbers:

- 60,000 Regular Infantry; 100,000 Infantry Reserves
- 40,000 Calvary ( In the process of being converted to Motorcycle and/or Light-Infantry Regiments)

Mobilisation Method: Reserve System

Organisation:

By a reorganization of 16 December 1913, divisions were to be composed of three or four brigades of infantry with artillery. Each brigade had an active regiment which in wartime would double its companies to provide a second regiment. In peacetime, these second regiments were represented only by reserve cadres.

Divisions were both numbered and named, where the name was the name of the district where the division was raised. Most accounts simply use their numbers, however.

Order of Battle

Standing Army

1re Division d’armée. État-major — Gand.
2e brigade mixte — Gand.
2e régiment de ligne. (22e régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 2e brigade mixte.
3e brigade mixte— Ostende.
3e régiment de ligne. (23e régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 3e brigade mixte.
4e brigade mixte — Bruges.
4e régiment de ligne. (24e régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 4e brigade mixte.
Artillerie divisionnaire — Gand.
1er régiment.
Cavalerie divisionnaire — Bruges.
3e régiment de lanciers.
Bataillon de genie divisionnaire.
Dépôt de la 1re division.
Compagnie de dépôt (infanterie).
Compagnie de dépôt (corps de transports).
Batterie de dépôt (artillerie).
Corps de transports.
1re compagnie.
2e compagnie.
3e compagnie.
4e compagnie.
5e compagnie.
6e compagnie.

2e Division d’armée. État-major — Anvers.
5e brigade mixte — Anvers.
5e régiment de ligne. (25e régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 5e brigade mixte.
6e brigade mixte — Anvers.
6e régiment de ligne. (26e régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 6e brigade mixte.
7e brigade mixte — Anvers.
7e régiment de ligne. (27e régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 7e brigade mixte.
Artillerie divisionnaire — Lierre.
2e régiment.
Cavalerie divisionnaire — Louvain.
(provisiorement) 4e régiment de chasseurs à cheval.
Bataillon de genie divisionnaire.
Dépôt de la 2e division.
Compagnie de dépôt (infanterie).
Compagnie de dépôt (corps de transports).
Batterie de dépôt (artillerie).
Corps de transports.
1re compagnie.
2e compagnie.
3e compagnie.
4e compagnie.
5e compagnie.
6e compagnie.
7e compagnie.

3e Division d’armée. État-major — Liège.
9e brigade mixte — Bruxelles.
9e régiment de ligne. (29e régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 9e brigade mixte.
11e brigade mixte — Hasselt.
11e régiment de ligne. (31e régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 11e brigade mixte.
12e brigade mixte — Liège.
12e régiment de ligne. (32e régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 12e brigade mixte.
14e brigade mixte - Liège.
14e régiment de ligne. (34e régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 14e brigade mixte.
Cavalerie divisionnaire — Liège.
2e régiment de lanciers.
Bataillon de genie divisionnaire.
Artillerie divisionnaire — Liège.
3e régiment.
Dépôt de la 3e division.
Compagnie de dépôt (infanterie).
Compagnie de dépôt (corps de transports).
Batterie de dépôt (artillerie).
Corps de transports.
1re compagnie.
2e compagnie.
3e compagnie.
4e compagnie.
5e compagnie.
6e compagnie.
7e compagnie.

4e Division d’armée. État-major — Namur.
8e brigade mixte — Laeken.
8e régiment de ligne. (28e régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 8e brigade mixte.
10e brigade mixte — Namur.
10e régiment de ligne. (30e régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 10e brigade mixte.
13e brigade mixte — Namur.
13e régiment de ligne. (33e régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 13e brigade mixte.
15e brigade mixte — Charleroi.
1er régiment de chasseurs à pied. (4e régiment de chasseurs à pied). Artillerie de la 15e brigade mixte.
Artillerie divisionnaire — Tirlemont.
4e régiment.
Cavalerie divisionnaire — Namur.
1er régiment de lanciers.
Bataillon de genie divisionnaire.
Dépôt de la 4e division.
Compagnie de dépôt (infanterie).
Compagnie de dépôt (corps de transports).
Batterie de dépôt (artillerie).
Corps de transports.
1re compagnie.
2e compagnie.
3e compagnie.
4e compagnie.
5e compagnie.
6e compagnie.
7e compagnie.

5e Division d’armée. État-major — Mons.
1re brigade mixte — Gand.
1er régiment de ligne. (21er régiment de ligne). Artillerie de la 1re brigade mixte.
16e brigade mixte — Mons.
2e régiment de chasseurs à pied. (5e régiment de chasseurs à pied). Artillerie de la 16e brigade mixte.
17e brigade mixte — Tournai.
3e régiment de chasseurs à pied. (6e régiment de chaseurs à pied). Artillerie de la 17e brigade mixte.
Cavalerie divisionnaire — Mons.
2e régiment de chasseurs à cheval.
Artillerie divisionnaire — Louvain.
5e régiment.
Bataillon de genie divisionnaire.
Dépôt de la 5e division.
Compagnie de dépôt (infanterie).
Compagnie de dépôt (corps de transports).
Batterie de dépôt (artillerie).
Corps de transports.
1re compagnie.
2e compagnie.
3e compagnie.
4e compagnie.
5e compagnie.
6e compagnie.

6e Division d’armée. État-major — Bruxelles.
18e brigade mixte — Bruxelles.
Régiment de grenadiers. (2e régiment de grenadiers). Artillerie de la 18e brigade mixte.
l9e brigade mixte — Bruxelles.
1er régiment de carabiniers. (3e régiment de carabiniers). Artillerie de la l9e brigade mixte.
20e brigade mixte — Bruxelles.
2e régiment de carabiniers. (4e régiment de carabiniers). Artillerie de la 20e brigade mixte.
Artillerie divisionnaire — Bruxelles.
6e régiment.
Cavalerie divisionnaire — Tournai.
1er régiment de chasseurs à cheval.
Batallion de genie divisionnaire.
Dépôt de la 6e division.
Compagnie de dépôt (infanterie).
Compagnie de dépôt (corps de transports).
Batterie de dépôt (artillerie).
Dépôt de la cavalerie divisionnaire.
Escadron de dépôt.
Corps de transports.
1re compagnie.
2e compagnie.
3e compagnie.
4e compagnie.
5e compagnie.
6e compagnie.
7e compagnie.

Division de cavalerie. État-major — Bruxelles.
1re brigade — Bruxelles.
1er régiment de guides. 2e régiment de guides.
2e brigade — Gand.
4e régiment de lanciers. 5e régiment de lanciers. 4e régiment de chasseurs à cheval.
Bataillon de carabiniers cyclistes — Bruxelles.
Artillerie à cheval — Groupe d’artillerie à cheval.
Dépôt de la division de cavalerie.
Escadron de dépôt.
Compagnie de dépôt (infanterie).
Batterie de dépôt.

Reserve Units

1er régiment de ligne. État-major — Gand.
1er bataillon actif — Gand. 2e bataillon actif — Termonde.
3e bataillon actif — Gand. 4e bataillon actif — Gand.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Gand. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Gand.
Dépôt — Termonde. École régimentaire — Ath.

2e régiment de ligne. État-major — Gand.
1er bataillon actif — Gand. 2e bataillon actif — Gand.
3e bataillon actif — Gand. 4e bataillon actif — Gand.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Gand. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Gand.
Dépôt — Termonde. École régimentaire — Courtrai.

3e régiment de ligne. État-major — Ostende.
1er bataillon actif — Ypres. 2e bataillon actif — Ostende.
3e bataillon actif — Ostende. 4e bataillon actif — Ostende.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Ostende. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Ostende (1re compagnie — Ypres).
Dépôt — Saint-Nicolas. École régimentaire — Ypres.

4e régiment de ligne. État-major — Bruges.
1er bataillon actif — Bruges. 2e bataillon actif — Bruges.
3e bataillon actif — Bruges. 4e bataillon actif — Bruges.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Bruges. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Bruges.
Dépôt — Saint-Nicolas. École régimentaire — Menin.

5e régiment de ligne. État-major — camp de Beverloo.
1er bataillon actif — camp de Beverloo. 2e bataillon actif — camp de Beverloo.
3e bataillon actif — camp de Beverloo. 4e bataillon actif — camp de Beverloo.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Anvers. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Anvers.
Dépôt — Saint-Bernard. École régimentaire — Audenarde.

6e régiment de ligne. État-major — Anvers.
1er bataillon actif — Anvers. 2e bataillon actif — Anvers.
3e bataillon actif — Anvers. 4e bataillon actif — Anvers.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Anvers. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Anvers.
Dépôt — Saint-Bernard. École régimentaire — Ath.

7e régiment de ligne. État-major — Anvers.
1er bataillon actif — Anvers. 2e bataillon actif — Anvers.
3e bataillon actif — Anvers. 4e bataillon actif — Anvers.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Anvers. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Anvers.
Dépôt — Saint-Bernard. École régimentaire — Philippeville.

8e régiment de ligne. État-major — Anvers.
1er bataillon actif — Anvers. 2e bataillon actif — Anvers.
3e bataillon actif — Anvers. 4e bataillon actif — Anvers.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Anvers. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Anvers.
Dépôt — Saint-Bernard. École régimentaire — Mariembourg.

9e régiment de ligne. État-major — Bruxelles.
1er bataillon actif — Bruxelles. 2e bataillon actif — Bruxelles.
3e bataillon actif — Bruxelles. 4e bataillon actif — Bruxelles.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Bruxelles. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Bruxelles.
Dépôt — Contich. École régimentaire — Bouillon.

10e régiment de ligne. État-major — Arlon.
1er bataillon actif — Louvain. 2e bataillon actif — Arlon.
3e bataillon actif — Arlon. 4e bataillon actif — Arlon.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Arlon (2e compagnie — Louvain).
6e bataillon de forteresse — Arlon (4e compagnie — Louvain).
Dépôt — Contich. École régimentaire — Arlon.

11e régiment de ligne. État-major — Hasselt.
1er bataillon actif — Hasselt. 2e bataillon actif — Vilvorde.
3e bataillon actif — Hasselt. 4e bataillon actif — Hasselt.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Hasselt. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Hasselt (3e compagnie — Vilvorde).
Dépôt — Lierre. École régimentaire — Ath.

12e régiment de ligne. État-major — Liège.
1er bataillon actif — Verviers. 2e bataillon actif — Liège.
3e bataillon actif — Liège. 4e bataillon actif — Liège.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Liège.
6e bataillon de forteresse — Liège (1re compagnie — Verviers).
Dépôt — Lierre. École régimentaire — Bouillon.

13e régiment de ligne. État-major — Namur.
1er bataillon actif — Namur. 2e bataillon actif — Namur.
3e bataillon actif — Namur. 4e bataillon actif — Namur.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Namur. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Namur.
Dépôt — Namur. École régimentaire — Dinant.

14e régiment de ligne. État-major — Liège.
1er bataillon actif — Liège. 2e bataillon actif — Liège.
3e bataillon actif — Liège. 4e bataillon actif — Liège.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Liège. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Liège.
Dépôt — Liège. École régimentaire — Diest.

1er régiment de chasseurs à pied. État-major — Charleroi.
1er bataillon actif — Charleroi. 2e bataillon actif — Charleroi.
3e bataillon actif — Charleroi. 4e bataillon actif — Charleroi.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Charleroi (4e compagnie — Huy).
6e bataillon de forteresse — Charleroi.
Dépôt — Diest. École régimentaire — Huy.

2e régiment de chasseurs à pied. État-major — Mons.
1er bataillon actif — Mons. 2e bataillon actif — Mons.
3e bataillon actif — Mons. 4e bataillon actif — Mons.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Mons. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Mons.
Dépôt — Diest. École régimentaire — Saint-Trond.

3e régiment de chasseurs à pied. État-major — Tournai.
1er bataillon actif — Tournai. 2e bataillon actif — Tournai.
3e bataillon actif — Bruxelles. 4e bataillon actif — Bruxelles.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Tournai (3e compagnie — Bruxelles).
6e bataillon de forteresse — Bruxelles.
Dépôt — Malines. École régimentaire — Menin.

Régiment de grenadiers. État-major — Bruxelles.
1er bataillon actif — Bruxelles. 2e bataillon actif — Bruxelles.
3e bataillon actif — Bruxelles. 4e bataillon actif — Bruxelles.
5e bataillon de forteresse — Bruxelles. 6e bataillon de forteresse — Bruxelles.
Dépôt — Malines. École régimentaire — Nivelles.

Régiment de carabiniers. État-major — Bruxelles.
1er bataillon actif — Bruxelles. 2e bataillon actif — Bruxelles.
3e bataillon actif — Bruxelles. 4e bataillon actif — Bruxelles.
5e bataillon cycliste — Bruxelles.
6e bataillon de forteresse — Bruxelles. 7e bataillon de forteresse — Bruxelles.
Dépôt — Malines. École régimentaire — Wavre.

1er régiment d’artillerie. État-major — Gand.
1er groupe — Gand.
1re batterie montée active.
2e batterie montée active.
3e batterie montée active.
2e groupe — Gand.
4e batterie montée active.
5e batterie montée active.
6e batterie montée active.
1re batterie de reserve — Gand.
2e batterie de reserve — Gand.
Dépôt — Gand.

2e régiment d’artillerie. État-major — Malines.
1er groupe — Malines.
7e batterie montée active.
8e batterie montée active.
9e batterie montée active.
2e groupe — Brasschaet.
10e batterie montée active.
11e batterie montée active.
12e batterie montée active.
3e batterie de reserve — Malines.
1re batterie de munitions — Malines.

3e régiment d’artillerie. État-major — Malines.
1er groupe — Malines.
13e batterie montée active.
14e batterie montée active.
15e batterie montée active.
2e groupe — Malines.
16e batterie montée active.
17e batterie montée active.
18e batterie montée active.
4e batterie de reserve — Malines.
5e batterie de reserve — Malines.
Dépôt — Malines.

4e régiment d’artillerie. État-major — Anvers.
1er groupe — Anvers.
19e batterie montée active.
20e batterie montée active.
21e batterie montée active.
2e groupe — Anvers.
22e batterie montée active.
23e batterie montée active.
24e batterie montée active.
6e batterie de reserve — Anvers.
2e batterie de munitions — Anvers.

5e régiment d’artillerie. État-major — Louvain.
1er groupe — Louvain.
25e batterie montée active.
26e batterie montée active.
27e batterie montée active.
2e groupe — Louvain.
28e batterie montée active.
29e batterie montée active.
30e batterie montée active.
7e batterie de reserve — Louvain.
8e batterie de reserve — Louvain.
Dépôt — Louvain.

6e régiment d’artillerie. État-major — Tirlemont.
1er groupe — Tirlemont.
31e batterie montée active.
32e batterie montée active.
33e batterie montée active.
2e groupe — Louvain.
34e batterie montée active.
35e batterie montée active.
36e batterie montée active.
9e batterie de reserve — Tirlemont.
3e batterie de munitions — Tirlemont.

7e régiment d’artillerie. État-major — Bruxelles.
1er groupe — Bruxelles.
37e batterie montée active.
38e batterie montée active.
39e batterie montée active.
2e groupe — Bruxelles.
40e batterie montée active.
41e batterie montée active.
42e batterie montée active.
10e batterie de reserve — Bruxelles.
11e batterie de reserve — Bruxelles.
Dépôt — Bruxelles.

8e régiment d’artillerie. État-major — Louvain.
1er groupe — Louvain.
43e batterie montée active.
44e batterie montée active.
45e batterie montée active.
2e groupe — Charleroi.
46e batterie montée active.
47e batterie montée active.
48e batterie montée active.
12e batterie de reserve — Louvain.
4e batterie de munitions — Louvain.

Standard Equipment

M1898/16 Mauser Bolt-Action Rifle (http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl02-e.htm)
Browning M1910 Semi-Automatic Pistol (used by officers/calvary only) (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg95-e.htm)
75mm Field Gun (http://randy.knight.name/2005/6/21/46.aspx)
Updated Uniform (http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/7956/belgium5ve.png)

*More to come

yes, your military is appropriate and appears to be based on historical model, and the US is willing to let you produce US small arms under license.

Your carriers are a little later though, I would suggest a couple conversion jobs from protected or armored cruisers to get experience working with carriers... that is what the US is doing. The British converted battle cruisers in this timeline, apparently because he has more than he needs.

the Kaga is a converted Battlecruiser. It still has 8x8" guns

I must admit, I’m fabricating these numbers. Hopefully there’re alright.

The National Guard of Burgundy

The Grand Duchy currently has no standing army; only part-time volunteers. A small cadre of professional soldiers trains and administers these men.

The three National Guard Divisions are all mainly infantry, consisting of 12,000 soldiers each. There are based out of the three regions of Burgundy.

1st Division (Luxembourg)

2nd Division (Nancy)

3rd Division (Strasbourg)

---
I'll need to find out weapons later.

I suppose as Germany, France, the UK, and the US are supposed to ensure the neutrality of the country, there wouldn’t be seen a need for a standing army. What do you all think?

I suppose as Germany, France, the UK, and the US are supposed to ensure the neutrality of the country, there wouldn’t be seen a need for a standing army. What do you all think?

True, but i'd have one anyway just incase the French, UK, US and Germany are all disposed of.

the frigate is an anti submarine vessel which hasn't really seen use yet because noone has fought an antisubmarine warfare campaign yet.... torpedo boats (basically a mini destroyer) are the same size however. Motor torpedo boats are reasonable for Brazil, but a few steam gunboats (as in the old use for them) are useful for patroling Brazil's many rivers

Okay check. I'll add that on. Cheers man :)

Army:
60,000 Infantry in 6 Divisions
5,000 Cavalry in 1 Division

Airforce:
24 Aircraft (Scouts)

Navy:
Several River Monitors

OOC: I am curious to know where Hungary got her Zeppelins and planes.

Parthini']OOC: I am curious to know where Hungary got her Zeppelins and planes.

Plannes aren't to hard to come by, and this is actually the military for 1920 btw. As to zeppelins, well I know Germany has the best but don't other nations have them as well?

Germany has Zeppelins. Britain, France and the US have rigid airships, albeit much slower and less powerful. They are more of an experiment for those nations, while Germany has embraced them. I'm pretty sure by the 1920s that maybe Italy, Japan and Russia would probably have some too, but they are very expensive to develop.

Fine....I'll just get rid of them then.

the US Navy is experimenting with Zeppelin type rigid airships, but has found Blimps to be easier to build and use, and also is building numerious seaplanes and also twin engined patrol aircraft for shore bases, as well as single engined aircraft for carrier and floatplane work. Battleships are now equipped with floatplanes, as are battle cruisers.

The US Army is primarily using single engine aircraft for scouting and ground support is being experimented with. A Cavalry regiment, the 17th, is being equipped totally with armored cars and trucks, while a provisional land cruiser battalion is experimenting with a variety of designs at Fort Knox. However, the US has not determined a standard design for its land cruisers yet.

The aircraft designs of Martin, Boeing, and Curtiss are dominating the market in the US at the moment, while Pratt and Whitney and Wright are building aircraft engines. The National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (which will in 1956 become NASA) was established in 1915 to promote and regulate civil aviation, and pilots in the US must now have a license. They also build wind tunnels to improve aircraft design and promote civil aviation in general, which will soon lead to the development of the airline, air freight and air mail industries.

By 1920, the Palestinian Military will have been modernized and equipped with modern French weapons, inclduing a few armored cars and aircraft.

Army
40,000 men in 4 Infantry Divisions

11,000 men in 2 Cavalry Divisions w/ 1 Attatched Armored Car Brigade

Army Aeronautic Corp
24 Aircraft of assorted type

Palestian Navy
3 Protected Crusiers, 9 Destroyers. All older French designs.

20 Torpedo Boats or Coastal Defense craft

Assorted smaller gunboats.

British Armoured Car Organisation

(Now given to Army control)

Motor Machine Gun Brigade (5 currently in service)

Brigade HQ with a wireless section mounted in an truck
two MG Battalions
one Cyclist Battalion (300 cyclists)
one Battery of trench Mortars

[Each MG Battalion consisted of 4 x 8 gun batteries, & 8 armoured cars]

The MG battalions infantry MG sections and the trench mortars are all mounted in trucks and the cyclists can be mounted in trucks as well. All armoured cars are of the Austin light variety, but independant organisations of Heavy Rolls Royce armoured cars exist as following:

Indendent Heavy Armoured Car Company

Company HQ (inc. wireless section) in a truck
3 Heavy Armoured Car Sections (each with 3 vehicles)
2 Heavy MG Batteries (each with 8 Heavy MGs)

Goals for 1920:

Army:
55,000 troops standing army
5,000 Cavalry

Air:
2 Recon planes\balloons
3 light cargo delivery (mail planes of the Royal Romanian Airmail Service)

Navy:
Try to negotiate contracts to produce and research submarines, and obtain five escort destroyers.

I suppose as Germany, France, the UK, and the US are supposed to ensure the neutrality of the country, there wouldn’t be seen a need for a standing army. What do you all think?

I don't think it will be long before a red Germany starts looking west to expand, as it's eastern borders are mostly held by allies (Russia). Of course, he could try to go south and consume what's left of the Hapsburg's former Empire, but I do believe it will only be a matter of time before he eyes the low countries.

With the UK persuing further neutrality in European Affiars, and the US likely to be involved in it's own affairs in the Americas, your only immedeate protector will be France and possibly Italy.

I don't think it will be long before a red Germany starts looking west to expand, as it's eastern borders are mostly held by allies (Russia). Of course, he could try to go south and consume what's left of the Hapsburg's former Empire, but I do believe it will only be a matter of time before he eyes the low countries.

With the UK persuing further neutrality in European Affiars, and the US likely to be involved in it's own affairs in the Americas, your only immedeate protector will be France and possibly Italy.

Thanks a lot :p

Parthini']Thanks a lot :p

No problem. :D

I'd appreciate comments on how reasonable/decent these look. I tried to keep it primitive, but with the Intervention in Germany I figure Russia's also probably one of the world's leaders in armor (especially in numbers--the Soviets loved their tanks--that's also why the numbers are high, at least they looked high to me). I'll post designs for armored cars and tank destroyers soon, as well, after receiving some feedback.

Full Name:
артиллерия бронированный автомобиль
Artilleriya Bronirovannyy Avtomobil’
(Armored Artillery Vehicle – originally developed as a self-contained, self-propelled field gun for breaking fortified positions)
General Purpose Name:
тбронник
Tbronnik

T-16 (probably have, like, two or three thousand of these)
75 mm gun (turreted)
three-man crew (driver, gunner, loader/mechanic)
tracked
15mm steel armor
gasoline engine
12 kph
60 km range

T-19 (probably have five to twelve hundred)
76.2 mm main gun (turreted)
2 7.62mm machine guns (side swivel-mounts)
three-man crew (driver, gunner, loader/mechanic)
35mm steel armor
gasoline engine
18 kph
100 km range

Since it's all the rage, Italy will also have a mobile unit. However, the Italian unit will be made in 1917, when the first Italian "land battleship" will come out. It'll be similar to other nation's tanks, with a machine gun turret and a 50mm cannon. It'll have the rhomboid (sp?) shape to easily get across trenches. The main advancement in the tank, which I am calling the "Re Vittorio Land Battleship," will be the use of the Wankel engines bought from Korea. This makes it cheaper than the tanks of other nations, as well as lighter, but it comes at the cost of less fuel efficiency.

There will be a few brigades of these by 1920, complete with armored cars and trucks. These will be organised into the First Armored Division. Some of the first radios will make it to this unit, and it will be deployed to the parts of the Brenner Pass that Italy controls, if I still control any part of it.

EDIT:

Once Russian intervenes in the German civil war and the usefulness and flaws of the tank are apparant, the next tank will be much better.

With Germany now bordering Italy and no Mussolini to make everything retarded, the army will be in much, MUCH, better shape than historically. The navy will also be fairly strong, but will be built up somewhat slower than in OTL.

I don't think it will be long before a red Germany starts looking west to expand, as it's eastern borders are mostly held by allies (Russia). Of course, he could try to go south and consume what's left of the Hapsburg's former Empire, but I do believe it will only be a matter of time before he eyes the low countries.

With the UK persuing further neutrality in European Affiars, and the US likely to be involved in it's own affairs in the Americas, your only immedeate protector will be France and possibly Italy.

Oh, I'm sure indeed-I'm counting on it, to make an interesting RP. :)

I'm wondering would Burgundy know enough of that at this point to create an army. I suppose they'll see soon enough...

Part II of British tanks lists.

The latest design from Britsih tank developers by 1920. This is likely to become the main British tank after we "time warp" to 1920 tomorrow.

Mark VIII "Liberty" Tank
1500 of these vehicles are to be constructed. Features included a separate engine compartment. Again based on the very British rhomboid shape (though this tank had a more rounded front for greater ease of cross country and obstacle crossing) and with all round tracks. The two side sponsons contained 2 6pdr guns and there were 2 side mounted MGs as well as 5 mounted in a compartment jutting up over the top of the hull (2 faced fore, 1 to each side and 1 aft). Also featured a commanders cupola

Specifications
Crew 8-12
Weight 37 tons
Height 10ft 3ins
Length 34ft 1.5ins
Width 12ft 4ins
Armor 16mm fornt, 12mm sides, 10mm rear.
Armament 2 x 6pdr, 7 x MG
Engine Ricardo V12 gasoline 300hp
Speed 7 mph
Trench Crossing 16ft
Step Crossing 4ft 6ins
Range 50 miles

Developed historically with the americans I am glad to share development of this vehicle with GB if he wants to. Aim to begin production of these just after we restart in 1920 (2 years behind RL schedule).

Ok. I know tanks ar badass and "the rage" but remember, my revolution was from 1914-1918, and tanks were first introduced in late 1916, and only used a lot by the end of 1917, by the Reds. So, nations having tanks in 1916 is totally unrealistic. Research would take at least 18 months, since there's no war going on, and there wouldn't be much need for them anyways. I mean, Germany just tore itself apart in a civil war. No way they would start WWII. Not trying to be a monopolistic hog (ok, yes I am) but Germany keeps her technology very secret. So tank development should start a lot probably when we come out of warp.

I'd appreciate comments on how reasonable/decent these look. I tried to keep it primitive, but with the Intervention in Germany I figure Russia's also probably one of the world's leaders in armor (especially in numbers--the Soviets loved their tanks--that's also why the numbers are high, at least they looked high to me). I'll post designs for armored cars and tank destroyers soon, as well, after receiving some feedback.

Full Name:
артиллерия бронированный автомобиль
Artilleriya Bronirovannyy Avtomobil’
(Armored Artillery Vehicle – originally developed as a self-contained, self-propelled field gun for breaking fortified positions)
General Purpose Name:
тбронник
Tbronnik

T-16 (probably have, like, two or three thousand of these)
75 mm gun (turreted)
three-man crew (driver, gunner, loader/mechanic)
tracked
15mm steel armor
gasoline engine
12 kph
60 km range

T-19 (probably have five to twelve hundred)
76.2 mm main gun (turreted)
2 7.62mm machine guns (side swivel-mounts)
three-man crew (driver, gunner, loader/mechanic)
35mm steel armor
gasoline engine
18 kph
100 km range

I think they should have more crew. Early tanks required a lot of crewing, as the machine-guns needed to be belt fed and they needed mechanics to make sure they didn't break down every other mile, plus without a cmmander those tanks will have a very limited Situational Awareness, plus you have one gunner in the T-19 operating a 76.2mm gun, plus the two machine guns.

Plus, turrets at this point are probably hand-cranked and a big gun like the 75 or 76.2mm would most likely mounted in the hull with any turreted weapons being machine guns. Also, historically the French were one of the first to make a tank with the familiar "driver up front, engine in back, turret on top" configuration we're familiar with today. I believe they also made the first turreted tank (FT-17).

That's just my opinion. GB will make the final call on those.

I think they should have more crew. Early tanks required a lot of crewing, as the machine-guns needed to be belt fed and they needed mechanics to make sure they didn't break down every other mile, plus without a cmmander those tanks will have a very limited Situational Awareness, plus you have one gunner in the T-19 operating a 76.2mm gun, plus the two machine guns.

Plus, turrets at this point are probably hand-cranked and a big gun like the 75 or 76.2mm would most likely mounted in the hull with any turreted weapons being machine guns. Also, historically the French were one of the first to make a tank with the familiar "driver up front, engine in back, turret on top" configuration we're familiar with today. I believe they also made the first turreted tank (FT-17).

That's just my opinion. GB will make the final call on those.

as primitive as they seem, they may still be too advanced.. Christie got a contract with the US Army in my USA, so he isn't going to be visiting Russia to help lay the ground work for the T34. For now, tanks should have big crews for infantry support tanks (look at the British MKV World War I era tanks for examples) or small crews for Renault (World War I again) light tanks.

All guns are hand cranked, there is no airconditioning, transmissions are primitive, although tracks are getting reasonably reliable, a turret handling anything bigger than 37 mm shouldn't exist yet, so big guns are hull mounted (look at French Schneider tanks from World War I), and machine gun tanks should be common, in fact, probably the majority, as the role at this point because of poor speed and range is infantry support (look at British MK I tanks or British World War I tankettes), and engines are still poor quality, so you either have two engines, or even more, for the big tanks, too get any kind of horsepower needed to carry heavy guns, and armor is still very poor, and can be penetrated by anti tank rifles (12.7 mm or 20 mm usually)

We have a way to go yet for World War II era tanks

French Tanks[/b

[b]FT-20
Image (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FT_17.jpg)

Length: 5 meters

Width: 1.47 meters

Height: 2.14 meters

Suspension; Vertical Springs

Speed: 7 km/h on-road, less off-road.

Range: 65 kilometers

Primary Armament; 7.5mm machine gun or 37mm cannon

Secondary Armament: None

Armor: 22mm (maximum)

Crew: Two (Commander/Gunner, Driver)

Napoleon Heavy Cuirassé, Versions 1 and 2

The Napoleon was designed to be a heavy tank and offer support to infantry. It follows the British method of having the tracks all the way around the hull and is trapazodial in shape. It is big. THe front is not rounded, however, and instead slants down at a 80 degree angle, offering. To the right o the front hull is the main gun, a short-barreled 75mm. To the left is a drivers viewing slit. On top of the hull, set forward, is a turret that holds the commander and a twin-linked machine gun.

Length: 8.7 meters

Width: 2.7 meters

Height (With Turret): 3.7 meters

Weight: 22 tons

Armament( Version 1): Shortbarreled 75mm gun, one twin-linked set of 7.5mm Darne Machineguns

Armament (Version 2): Four Darne 7.5mm machine guns (two front hull, one left, one right), one twin-linked st of 7.5mm Darne machine-guns (Turret)

Engine: 4-cylinder Panhard, Petrol fueld.

Armor: 20mm (maximum)

Crew (V1): 7 (Two gunners for 75mm, driver, commander/gunner, loader/turret operator, mechanic, one reserve)

Crew (V2): 9 (four gunners for machine guns, driver, commander/gunner, Loader/turret operator, mechanic, Reserve/Loader)

according to this site: http://reference.allrefer.com/country-guide-study/mexico/mexico110.html, Mexico developed its own triplane around 1914 , obscure request but does anyone have any information on it?

"Unable to obtain additional aircraft because of the war in Europe, the Carranza government successfully developed and produced a biplane trainer and subsequently a series of other models from both local designs and from modifications of foreign planes.

During the 1920s, the army bought various war-surplus bomber, reconnaissance, fighter, and training aircraft at low cost, although the local aircraft industry continued to produce its own models."

I realise that our history is different, and realistically i wouldnt have an "air force" as such until 1932. However would it possible for me to equip recce forces with planes and also have a small army controlled fighter/bomber force?

Updated the SA military (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9542635&postcount=163) for 1920. I added an artillery regiment and noted that the warships of the RSANS are now operational.

according to this site: http://reference.allrefer.com/country-guide-study/mexico/mexico110.html, Mexico developed its own triplane around 1914 , obscure request but does anyone have any information on it?

"Unable to obtain additional aircraft because of the war in Europe, the Carranza government successfully developed and produced a biplane trainer and subsequently a series of other models from both local designs and from modifications of foreign planes.

During the 1920s, the army bought various war-surplus bomber, reconnaissance, fighter, and training aircraft at low cost, although the local aircraft industry continued to produce its own models."

I realise that our history is different, and realistically i wouldnt have an "air force" as such until 1932. However would it possible for me to equip recce forces with planes and also have a small army controlled fighter/bomber force?

I am sure the Americans and Europeans will be happy to sell you aircraft, and the US will provide pilot training at its facilities in San Antonio.

Do you have any for sale at the moment, if so can we have some details?

We also accept the kind offer of the usage of your training facilities, Mexico will send a number of Officers from the recently formed AAD (Army Air Division: at the moment only a name seen as they have no equipment or training) whenever you are ready to take them.

Do you have any for sale at the moment, if so can we have some details?

We also accept the kind offer of the usage of your training facilities, Mexico will send a number of Officers from the recently formed AAD (Army Air Division: at the moment only a name seen as they have no equipment or training) whenever you are ready to take them.

We are talking single engined scouting and light bombing aircraft, probably the Jenny (essentially similar to a DH4), with better aircraft coming along a bit later as they are developed in the US.

USA hopes to limit weapons and reduce world tensions

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9589999#post9589999

Mexican Armed Forces 1920

This is the reformed structure that Mexico’s army now takes. The economy has stabilised after the civil war, allowing a stronger army and navy than immediately after the rebellion. As well as this, the Guardia Rural has recently been formed, essentially a militia designed to keep order throughout the country, as well as providing a trained defensive force should Mexico be attacked. Mexico also has an air force, although this is only in its infancy and is mainly used for reconnaissance missions.

Army

The army is expected to be sized down and given extensive retraining; hopefully meaning it will be as professional as the European armies. With the formation of the Guardia Rural, the principle job of the army will be attack as opposed to defence. Because of this a motor division will be created by 1922, equipped with enough trucks for 5,000 men. As well as this, an extra cavalry division is to be created. So in total the army will include:

5 Infantry Divisions (50,000 men total)
3 Cavalry Divisions (15,000 men total)
1 Motorised Division (5,000 men total)

In a situation of war, an extra 100,000 conscripted men can be called to arms as a part of the reservists scheme, as well as the 155,000 men in the rural defence force.

Navy

The navy is being increased slightly in size, mainly concentrating on defensive tactics in order to protect Mexico’s coastlines from attack. A further 1 Destroyer and 1 Cruiser are planned to be built in the next five years.

3 Madero-Class Cruisers
5 Diaz-Class Destroyers
10 Mexico-Class Gunboats

Guardia Rural (Rural Defence Force)

The Rural Defence Force (Guardia Rural) will augment the military presence in the countryside, as well as being the first line of Defence should the country be endangered. It will be composed entirely of volunteers, who will receive a small salary for being part of the force, as well as basic military training. Each province will be responsible for the training and equipping of its Guardia Rural, although certain guidelines must be followed. All volunteers will enlist for a three-year period, after this they may stay on till the age of 50.

Every region is required to maintain a force of 5,000 volunteers. If Mexico is invaded, or declares war then the number will rise to 10,000 in each region, to free up more regular soldiers from defending. As there are 31 provinces in peacetime we maintain a force of 155,000 volunteers, rising to 330,000 when war is declared.

31 Infantry Divisions (155,000 men total)

AAD (Army Air Division)

The AAD is hoping to recieve both training and equipment from the USA.

The Ottoman Arm forces
As of late 1920 and early 1921

The Ottoman Army- A Single Army cores can be at 10,000 troops at its lowest and 20,000 troop at max.
Army Core as of 1921, the standing army
300,000 troops( 100 percent fully trained)
Number of Army cores:50 Army cores at the moment.
400,000 Reservist cores(only call to duty in times of war, well trained)

Deployments of the Ottoman Army Cores

10 Army Cores Station in Egypt
10 Army Cores Station in Iran
8 Army Cores Station in Arabia
8 Army Cores Station in Syria/Lebanon
6 Army Cores Station in Iraq
8 Army Cores Station in Asia Minor


Ottoman Marine Core-190,000 troops(well trained)
Ten Divisions-10,000 each

Five Divisions Station in Asia Minor
Five Divisions Station in Egypt

Ottoman Air Core
100 Scout Planes

The Navy as of 1921

Battleships

2 Dreadnoughts class battleships (built by the British, by 1911)

Cruisers

6 Cruisers(build by the Germans,by 1915)

Light Cruisers

8 Light Cruisers(build by the Germans, by 1915)

Destroyers
20 Destoryers(build by the Germans, by 1915)

Torpedo Boats
30 Torpedo Boats (build by the Germans, by 1915)

The adjusted US Military assuming the Washington Naval Treaty doesn't fall apart again

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9604082&postcount=136

Is any nation producing poisoned gas? If so Albania would like to purchase some…

I would like to start experimenting with Para/Glider forces.

mind you just experimenting for now.

oki, so this is my hand made relitivly small military, some areas i will need help with.

All Forces will be called up in the case of either New Zion or Argentina coming
under hostile actions.

Total Forces: 3500

Military Command: 350
Military Logistics: 1400
Military Police: 500
Military Infantry: 1250

I have no information on vechiles or weapons commonly used in this era (except the winchester) so any help on that field would be more than appreciated.

Is any nation producing poisoned gas? If so Albania would like to purchase some…

Poison Gas has not yet been used in warfare, and no one has stocks. You must be at tech level 5 to not only produce it, but to even use it. No one has used biological warfare so far this century either, or practiced unrestricted submarine warfare or indescriminate bombing (although its possible it occured in either the Russian or German Civil Wars). We have had however the mass deportation of the population of the Lithuania, with significant atrocities, and I suspect the Rumanians were not at all gentle with ethnic Hungarians living in Transylvania when they took it over.

We have already had concentration camps though... in the Boer War.

Japan, parachutes are available, but the aircraft aren't. Paratroopers have to ride on the wings and let themselves go into the slipstream, and then pull the cord. Rather exciting I suspect. Or they ride in a Zeppelin, which could hold a useful payload of several metric tons or less depending on the size of the Zeppelin. So perhaps a company of men in the larger ones, probably more like a platoon though. (30 - 100 paratroopers depending on the size of the Zeppelin).

No gliders yet that can carry more than 1 man though, thats later too.

Incidently, even Zeppelins having trouble crossing mountain ranges, primarily because the life support equipment needed for the crew at high altitude is still pretty primative. It can be done, but its extremely risky and the chance of accident is very high.

Galveston, i know it has been awhile, but i would still like to know what ships i inherited from the Austrian Empire after the war, also please take into account that all the ships bigger than a light cruiser in tonnage should go to the Ottomans.

Also, paratroopers were still sliding down the wings of planes with the Russians through worldwar II on the TB-3 Picture of that (http://www.shift.sk/military/test_page_10/tb3/tb3_1.jpg)

In other news i would like to know what would be the earliest year a vehicle such as the Kfz 222 could be produced, as that is what i am planning on equiping my military with in the years to come.

OOC: I have here the Albanian military stats...

Albania’s Self Defense Army as it currently stands

10 infantry regiments, of 1000 each. Each is equipped, in addition to rifles, with 10 machine guns* and 1 light artillery piece*.

The cavalry, which is organized into 5 regiments, 1000 each. They are equipped with sappers, lances, and rifles.

*represents aid from Italian advisors in the use of those weapons.

Currently 25% have training and combat experience. Another 50% have combat experience but no formal training. 25% have neither training nor experience.

(Independent Macedonia, I sent a message to Yugoslavia's military that is quite important)

Argentine Active Army: (90,000 men)

1st Infantry Division: (15,000 men)
1st Infantry Regement (5,000)
3rd Infantry Regement (4,500)
4th Infantry Regement (4,500)
201st Artillery Battalion (1,000)

2nd Infantry Division: (15,000 men)
5th Infantry Regement (4,500)
7th Infantry Regement (5,000)
2nd Mounted Infantry Regement (4,500)
202nd Artillery Battalion (1,000)

3rd Cavalry Division: (13,000 men)
1st Mounted Infantry Regement (4,000)
2nd Cavalry Regement (4,000)
1st Cavalry Regement (4,000)
203rd Artillery Battalion (1,000)

4th Infantry Division: (15,000 men)
2nd Infantry Regement (5,000)
4th Mounted Infantry Regement (4,500)
9th Infantry Regment (4,500)
204th Artillery Battalion (1,000)

5th Mounted Infantry Division: (15,000 men)
3rd Cavalry Regement (4,000)
5th Mounted Infantry Regement (5,000)
3rd Mounted Infantry Regement (5,000)
205th Artillery Battalion (1,000)

6th Infantry Division (9,000 men)
8th Infantry Regement (4,000)
6th Infantry Regement (4,000)
206th Artillery Battalion (1000)

1st President's Guard Regement: (4,000 men)

Army Airforce (2,000 men)
(Using Japanese and possibly English airplanes... Updated when info becomes available)

Argentine Army Reserve: (250,000 men)

Argentine Naval Force:

Battleships:

3 Satsuma-Class Semi-Drednaught Battleships Buenos Aires, La Plata, Rawson (Stats incomplete) 2 double 12", 2 double 10" / about 28 knots

Crusers:

2 Republica-Class Light Crusers Republica, Tierra del Fuego 3 double 6", 4 13mm AA, 8 21" TT / 4,800 tons / 32 knots
4 Antartica-Class Light Crusers Mendoza, Antartica, Neuquén, Santa Cruz 2 double 6", 8 13mm AA, 6 21" TT / 5,650 tons / 37 knots

Destroyers:

10 or so (More on this later)

OOC: I have here the Albanian military stats...

Albania’s Self Defense Army as it currently stands

10 infantry divisions, of 1000 each. Each is equipped, in addition to rifles, with 10 machine guns* and 1 light artillery piece*.

The cavalry, which is organized into 5 divisions, 1000 each. They are equipped with sappers, lances, and rifles.

*represents aid from Italian advisors in the use of those weapons.

Currently 25% have training and combat experience. Another 50% have combat experience but no formal training. 25% have neither training nor experience.

(Independent Macedonia, I sent a message to Yugoslavia's military that is quite important)


a 1000 man organization is either a battalion or a regiment, while a 10,000 men organization would be a division... I would guess the Albanians can field an army about that size in peacetime, but seeing as you are fighting a civil war

Government Forces; 6 x infantry brigades (2,500 men each), 3 x 1,000 cavalry regiments (carrying rifles, the lance died in the Great War), misc support troops are another 2,000, plus a few artillery batteries (6 guns, 200 men each), and about 20,000 militia (who only fight if their homes are attacked, and sometimes not even then and always with ineptness)

King Zog and his merry men: 10 x companies (50 - 100 men each) scattered about the country plus some misc spies and terrorists hiding in the urban and village areas