NationStates Jolt Archive


NS General Election - Page 8

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Spaam
06-06-2005, 06:11
As I find you to be rather more comic, I prefer to laugh at you. There are several challenges unanswerd as of yet. I await some responses, or retractions.

Well actually I will await them looking at the inside of my eyelids as it jus went through 02:00 here. G'night.
Fairy nuff. I consider the challenges to be answered and the onus to be on you for not understanding them. But I need to finish my portfolio now. Goodnight.
Delator
06-06-2005, 07:01
Help Restore Sanity to the Political Process!

Vote for the Party of Whatever Works!
New Granada
06-06-2005, 08:13
My vote is for the Democratic Socialists.
Crimson Sith
06-06-2005, 08:15
Help Restore Sanity to the Political Process!

Vote for the Party of Whatever Works!

Yes, and don't forget to bring your puppets. :rolleyes:
Delator
06-06-2005, 08:37
Yes, and don't forget to bring your puppets. :rolleyes:

First of all, I do not have any puppets. I voted once, and only once. You can believe me or not, but it's your own problem if you don't.

Secondly, our party leader made a seperate thread specifically demanding that people who vote for our party NOT vote with puppets...I haven't seen any determined effort to discourage puppet voting from any other party.

Finally, you single us out...conviniently ignoring the fact that it is not only possible, but probable that every party has had puppets vote for it.

So...thanks for trying to demean our party by transfering the actions of a few misguided individuals onto the entire party. I hope that sort tactic can work well for you in the future.
Lashie
06-06-2005, 08:45
Can anybody who didn't vote for Tink please raise you hand. :sniper:

*raises hand*

Are you going to shoot me? :p
Moleland
06-06-2005, 08:48
1 vote in it for the winner? OMG!

*Didn't vote for Tink*
Crimson Sith
06-06-2005, 08:49
First of all, I do not have any puppets. I voted once, and only once. You can believe me or not, but it's your own problem if you don't.

Secondly, our party leader made a seperate thread specifically demanding that people who vote for our party NOT vote with puppets...I haven't seen any determined effort to discourage puppet voting from any other party.

Finally, you single us out...conviniently ignoring the fact that it is not only possible, but probable that every party has had puppets vote for it.

So...thanks for trying to demean our party by transfering the actions of a few misguided individuals onto the entire party. I hope that sort tactic can work well for you in the future.

Yes, well, when I see you rocket past us in the polls, garnering 10 or more votes within the space of an hour, and about a full score of them in about 12 hours, its something that I make note of. As for your disclaimer thread, which, by the way, was a reaction to my initial statements, well, it seems that whenever accused of wrong doing, all politicians quickly announce their innocence, and condemn the activity. It doesn't make them any more credible though. As for my "trying to demean your party", well, I call them like I see them. And as for the tactic of calling bullshit when I see it, yes, its working very well for me, thanks.
Commie Catholics
06-06-2005, 08:49
*raises hand*

Are you going to shoot me? :p

I couldn't shoot you Lashie. It would be a crime against nature (and to a lesser extent, the state). If anything I'd pat you on the back for voting Liberal.
Lashie
06-06-2005, 08:53
I couldn't shoot you Lashie. It would be a crime against nature (and to a lesser extent, the state). If anything I'd pat you on the back for voting Liberal.

You do know how contradictory you are don't you... :rolleyes:
Commie Catholics
06-06-2005, 08:55
You do know how contradictory you are don't you... :rolleyes:

I am well aware of my contradictory personality. Why? Don't like it? It's gone!
Spaam
06-06-2005, 08:57
I should've voted for Tink...

I hope that we can form a coalition too...

;)
Lashie
06-06-2005, 08:59
I am well aware of my contradictory personality. Why? Don't like it? It's gone!

No, i have nothing against your contradictory personality... besides, you wouldn't be able to live without it...
Commie Catholics
06-06-2005, 09:02
No, i have nothing against your contradictory personality... besides, you wouldn't be able to live without it...

Oh, good. It stays then. Why wouldn't I be able to live without it?
Delator
06-06-2005, 09:06
Yes, well, when I see you rocket past us in the polls, garnering 10 or more votes within the space of an hour, and about a full score of them in about 12 hours, its something that I make note of.

Well, while I'm not disputing the possibility there was puppet voting involved, you are also completely ignoring the possibility that they were all, in fact, legitimate votes cast by people who waited to vote until the end of the voting period.

You also continue to ignore the fact that it is likely that every nation recieved puppet votes.

As for your disclaimer thread, which, by the way, was a reaction to my initial statements, well, it seems that whenever accused of wrong doing, all politicians quickly announce their innocence, and condemn the activity. It doesn't make them any more credible though.

Well...thanks for the thinly veiled personal attack. That doesn't change the fact that I have yet to see any other party officially denounce puppet voting, or am I wrong on that point?

As for my "trying to demean your party", well, I call them like I see them. And as for the tactic of calling bullshit when I see it, yes, its working very well for me, thanks.

Still transfering the actions of one or two people onto the entire group.

I'm sorry that the actions of a few misguided people may have changed the outcome of the election for your party.

You will not find any PoWW members gloating in here about the results and to continue to single us out in this manner regarding this issue is not only unproductive, it is also very much biased.
Chicken pi
06-06-2005, 09:07
Yes, well, when I see you rocket past us in the polls, garnering 10 or more votes within the space of an hour, and about a full score of them in about 12 hours, its something that I make note of.

The POWW were pretty active yesterday, there were at least four threads floating about. It could just be that we caught the attention of a lot of undecided voters.

As for your disclaimer thread, which, by the way, was a reaction to my initial statements, well, it seems that whenever accused of wrong doing, all politicians quickly announce their innocence, and condemn the activity. It doesn't make them any more credible though.

That does not prove that we used puppets, however.
Lashie
06-06-2005, 09:08
Oh, good. It stays then. Why wouldn't I be able to live without it?

You just wouldn't, it's a habit, you contradict yourself all the time... :)
Commie Catholics
06-06-2005, 09:09
You just wouldn't, it's a habit, you contradict yourself all the time... :)

Well, I suppose that's a good thing. Do you know how hard it is to get along with somebody that's always right.
Crimson Sith
06-06-2005, 09:19
Delator

I've reviewed your response, and have come to the conclusion that you're right, and I'm wrong. I suppose I felt a little cheated, and this did upset me. However, you make valid points, and I'd like to apologize for any personal attacks I may have made on your party proper. I don't wish anomosity to develop between our two sides. Please, write this off, and lets start fresh, yes? :)
Texpunditistan
06-06-2005, 09:21
What's this? DSP won by only ONE vote?!?

AUTOMATIC RECOUNT! I'LL SUE! TAKE IT TO THE SUPREME COURT! THROW OUT THE MILITARY VOTE! RECOUNT TO BE HELD ONLY IN COUNTIES THAT VOTED MAINLY CLASSIC LIBERAL! CHECK THOSE PREGNANT CHADS!

*shakes head*

Sorry... I got posessed by the political ghost of Al Gore there for a second.

:p

And with that... I sleep. Gnight everyone.
Potaria
06-06-2005, 09:22
Hey, looks like my vote for the DSP really did count.
Delator
06-06-2005, 09:24
I've reviewed your response, and have come to the conclusion that you're right, and I'm wrong. I suppose I felt a little cheated, and this did upset me. However, you make valid points, and I'd like to apologize for any personal attacks I may have made on your party proper. I don't wish anomosity to develop between our two sides. Please, write this off, and lets start fresh, yes? :)

Any attacks you made were certainly due to being upset over the results, and that is completely understandable. I know I would probably do the same thing if I were in your shoes, and so would a lot of people on this forum.

I also do not wish for there to be any developing animosity between our parties.

Starting fresh is always good. :)

Too bad real-life politicians can never seem to do so. :p
Melkor Unchained
06-06-2005, 09:26
Hey, looks like my vote for the DSP really did count.
Meh, not too much. They'll still get the same amount of seats.
Crimson Sith
06-06-2005, 09:27
Any attacks you made were certainly due to being upset over the results, and that is completely understandable. I know I would probably do the same thing if I were in your shoes, and so would a lot of people on this forum.

I also do not wish for there to be any developing animosity between our parties.

Starting fresh is always good. :)

Too bad real-life politicians can never seem to do so. :p

ha ha! Indeed. ;)
Delator
06-06-2005, 09:30
So...from what I gathered from earlier in the thread, we were going to require a minimum of 4% for 1 seat, is this correct?
Commie Catholics
06-06-2005, 09:30
*whimpers*
Lashie's gone. I need comforting. :(
Crimson Sith
06-06-2005, 09:35
So...from what I gathered from earlier in the thread, we were going to require a minimum of 4% for 1 seat, is this correct?

From what I understand, the parties that have less than 4% of the vote will still get a seat a piece. Its sillyness if you ask me, but I don't make the rules. ;)
Potaria
06-06-2005, 09:45
Meh, not too much. They'll still get the same amount of seats.

True, but it's the thought that counts.
Melkor Unchained
06-06-2005, 09:50
True, but it's the thought that counts.
Yeah. Even though I'll have the same amount of seats as the UDCP, I'll always be smug in my having beaten them by a small margin.
Ariddia
06-06-2005, 09:58
OFFICIAL RESULTS

With the voting now closed, this is the official announcement of the number of seats for each party. I would like to thank everyone who took the time to vote, read the manifestos and take an interest in the debate, as well as the members of the various parties who took part in the campaign and election.

Cult of TInk Party: 2.28 seats => 2 seats
Democratic Socialist Party: 4.86 seats => 5 seats
Mole and Other Burrowing Rodents' Alliance: 0.86 seat => 1 seat
NS Classic Liberals: 4.83 seats => 5 seats
NS Meritocratic Representative Republicans: 2.32 seats => 2 seats
Party of Order: 0.6 seat => 0 seat
Party of Whatever Works: 2.68 seats => 3 seats
Revolutionary Trostkyist Party: 1.16 seats => 1 seat
United Democratic Communist Party: 2.58 seats => 3 seats
"Up yours!" Party: 2.85 seats => 3 seats

The results with quorum gave a total of 24 seats. Subsequent rounding attributed one seat to MOBRA, for a total of 25 seats in Parliament.

If all parties would like to make it known whom their seats are going to, a full list of NS General MPs can be drawn up.
Melkor Unchained
06-06-2005, 10:00
I'm officially changing my Party name to "The Reason Party" and I'm appointing Xaosis Redux to my second seat. The third will be determined when I get an answer from my first choice for the position. Should he decline, I will hold interviews for the final seat.
Ariddia
06-06-2005, 10:07
I'm officially changing my Party name to "The Reason Party" and I'm appointing Xaosis Redux to my second seat. The third will be determined when I get an answer from my first choice for the position. Should he decline, I will hold interviews for the final seat.

So noted. For the sake of clarity, I'm going to start a new thread where I'll post the results and announce the list of MPs.
Spaam
06-06-2005, 10:10
Mwahaha! The DSP win :D

If you need me as a seat, just say so.
Moleland
06-06-2005, 10:16
Damn...

Next time...

http://img294.echo.cx/img294/7928/img550rm.jpg
Ariddia
06-06-2005, 10:23
Having announced the official results, I would just like to do two more things.

First, I'd like to give my heart-felt thanks to everyone who voted for the UDCP. You've given us three seats, and I promise we will use them well, to defend the policies and ideals which you have voted for and supported.

Second, there have been strong suspicions of cheating in this election. Although there apparently can be no proof, various parties have, at times, surged forward by a startling number of votes. I am not condemning anyone, especially party leaders, but I sincerely hope no-one was pathetic enough to cheat in a fictitious election in a game. Not only is it pathetic, it is also contemptable, as it deprives honest voters of the full force of their vote.

When I created this election, I considered both the possibility of a public poll, and that of asking someone to create a seperate forum. I discarded both on the basis that it would probably discourage voters from taking part. I still believe that, on the balance of things, I made the right decision, but I'm open to suggestions as to how cheating can be prevented in any further election. I will also be considering increasing the number of MPs in any further election.

Oh, and one third thing after all: I hope you've all had fun. :)
Moleland
06-06-2005, 10:26
Having announced the official results, I would just like to do two more things.

First, I'd like to give my heart-felt thanks to everyone who voted for the UDCP. You've given us three seats, and I promise we will use them well, to defend the policies and ideals which you have voted for and supported.

Second, there have been strong suspicions of cheating in this election. Although there apparently can be no proof, various parties have, at times, surged forward by a startling number of votes. I am not condemning anyone, especially party leaders, but I sincerely hope no-one was pathetic enough to cheat in a fictitious election in a game. Not only is it pathetic, it is also contemptable, as it deprives honest voters of the full force of their vote.

When I created this election, I considered both the possibility of a public poll, and that of asking someone to create a seperate forum. I discarded both on the basis that it would probably discourage voters from taking part. I still believe that, on the balance of things, I made the right decision, but I'm open to suggestions as to how cheating can be prevented in any further election. I will also be considering increasing the number of MPs in any further election.

Oh, and one third thing after all: I hope you've all had fun. :)


I didn't ask people to cheat... :)

I did.. yeah. Where's the seat linky?
Crimson Sith
06-06-2005, 10:32
Well....I wouldn't reccommend a seperate forum, as I think that it would reduce voter turn out considerably. Its an unofortunate reality, but alot of people just won't feel the need to take the time to register at an off-site forum.

Personaly, I think a public poll is the way to go. If we could convince a friendly mod to monitor the voting nations, we could stop the puppet wanking dead in its tracks. It would be alot to ask, I suppose it would take alot of work. But perhaps some mod would be interested enough in our project to participate.
DHomme
06-06-2005, 10:40
W00T!
Haha, we kicked some major arse on the last day! I'd like to thank anybody who helped secure the RTP a seat and Ariddia for all the work on the general election.
*mini round of applause for all involved*

I think I can safely assume that I'll take the RTP's seat
Pure Metal
06-06-2005, 10:55
Hey, looks like my vote for the DSP really did count.
:p awesome!


Having announced the official results, I would just like to do two more things.

First, I'd like to give my heart-felt thanks to everyone who voted for the UDCP. You've given us three seats, and I promise we will use them well, to defend the policies and ideals which you have voted for and supported.

Second, there have been strong suspicions of cheating in this election. Although there apparently can be no proof, various parties have, at times, surged forward by a startling number of votes. I am not condemning anyone, especially party leaders, but I sincerely hope no-one was pathetic enough to cheat in a fictitious election in a game. Not only is it pathetic, it is also contemptable, as it deprives honest voters of the full force of their vote.

When I created this election, I considered both the possibility of a public poll, and that of asking someone to create a seperate forum. I discarded both on the basis that it would probably discourage voters from taking part. I still believe that, on the balance of things, I made the right decision, but I'm open to suggestions as to how cheating can be prevented in any further election. I will also be considering increasing the number of MPs in any further election.

Oh, and one third thing after all: I hope you've all had fun. :)
*another round of applause for Aridd and everyone involved*

oh and here's a good place to discuss future elections/voting procedure http://ns.goobergunch.net/general/

(http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9016884&postcount=1693)
The Imperial Navy
06-06-2005, 11:40
Having lost totally... I have nothing left to say except... YOU WILL ALL BE DESTROYED FOR YOUR INSOLENCE. :mad:

http://www.hlj.me.uk/ns/big%20brother%202.jpg
Moleland
06-06-2005, 11:55
Hey!" I almost lost....
Hyperslackovicznia
06-06-2005, 15:03
Congrats to everyone, but especially NS Classic Liberals! :fluffle:
Alien Born
06-06-2005, 15:11
Well....I wouldn't reccommend a seperate forum, as I think that it would reduce voter turn out considerably. Its an unofortunate reality, but alot of people just won't feel the need to take the time to register at an off-site forum.

Personaly, I think a public poll is the way to go. If we could convince a friendly mod to monitor the voting nations, we could stop the puppet wanking dead in its tracks. It would be alot to ask, I suppose it would take alot of work. But perhaps some mod would be interested enough in our project to participate.

I agree 100% with this. I am sure that we could persuade a freindly mod to help out in the future, given that this process has done a lot so far for bringing political debate back to the forum, and with a parliament functioning, we should have more such political activity in the future.
Czardas
06-06-2005, 16:00
Wow. This hasn't been locked yet? It's well over the limit.

*hands are clapped over his mouth to prevent him from speaking ;)*


~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Wegason
06-06-2005, 16:01
Wow. This hasn't been locked yet? It's well over the limit.

*hands are clapped over his mouth to prevent him from speaking ;)*

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

I think the mods ruled they would not close this thread as it was political debate.
Czardas
06-06-2005, 16:10
I agree 100% with this. I am sure that we could persuade a freindly mod to help out in the future, given that this process has done a lot so far for bringing political debate back to the forum, and with a parliament functioning, we should have more such political activity in the future.I think next each party should nominate a candidate for president of NS General (in the manifesto threads or something). Then we'll find out who really rules the forums.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Wegason
06-06-2005, 16:13
I think next each party should nominate a candidate for president of NS General (in the manifesto threads or something). Then we'll find out who really rules the forums.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

That might be a good idea for Prime Minister of the Parliament, we could have each party either propose one of their own or another person from another party for Prime Minister and then have a vote, with the top two going into a run off between them. All voted on by the MPs.
Psov
06-06-2005, 16:17
Hurrah! We maintained a steady 4 % just about throughout the entire election,
way to go RTP!
Jocabia
06-06-2005, 16:33
Don't have time to provide sources. Australia isn't quite that good either - it would cost me $1500 a year for private health insurance, and that is only because I am becoming a teacher. So that is one half of the proof. I'd like to see what the minimum is for the US though, cos it is sure way more than that.

False, I used to work for a small business with no insurance provider. I set up Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance for around a hundred dollars a month. I'm single and young so probably below the average but I gather so are you so it's comparable. That means in the US, I paid less than you did in Australia. Hmmmmm... sounds like you just made it up. Oh, wait, you admitted it - "I'd like to see what the minimum is for the US though, cos it is sure way more than that."
Jocabia
06-06-2005, 16:35
Yeah, I'd really wanna go to one of those.

:rolleyes:

Yes, because their religious beliefs have anything to do with your need for good healthcare. If you were dying and it was the closest hospital, I don't have to wonder what you'd do.
Jocabia
06-06-2005, 16:42
Disprove it or it stands.

YAY! We get to make assertions that if you can't or won't disprove are automatically true. You are a twelve-year old hermaphrodite with six nipples like a cat and you can often be found sucking on your underwear to get the smell out. Disprove it or stands. Or maybe if I don't prove it people will just think it's bullocks like your statement.
Jocabia
06-06-2005, 16:45
They are of poorer quality than the public hospitals in Australia

Making more stuff up? Have you any figures or stats to prove this? Anything? At all? No? We'll treat it like your other unsupported statements.
Pure Metal
06-06-2005, 16:45
http://www.hlj.me.uk/udcp%206.jpg
Czardas
06-06-2005, 16:48
They are of poorer quality than the public hospitals in Australia.

Making more stuff up? Have you any figures or stats to prove this? Anything? At all? No. We'll treat it like your other unsupported statements.Well, really! You have to give people time! Have patience here! It's like bumping a thread after 5 minutes!

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Wegason
06-06-2005, 16:50
Well, really! You have to give people time! Have patience here! It's like bumping a thread after 5 minutes!

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
I think it's down to most people being a bit pissed with the debate methods employed by Spaam, generally making up stats and trying to get us to disprove them, not giving any evidence to back up things that are said etc.
Czardas
06-06-2005, 16:55
I think it's down to most people being a bit pissed with the debate methods employed by Spaam, generally making up stats and trying to get us to disprove them, not giving any evidence to back up things that are said etc.Ah, I didn't know that.


And btw, who's Spaam? (Unbiased description please...)

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Wegason
06-06-2005, 16:57
Ah, I didn't know that.

And btw, who's Spaam? (Unbiased description please...)
~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
I think Spaam is a socialist/communist, i cannot remember which one.
Jocabia
06-06-2005, 17:03
Well, really! You have to give people time! Have patience here! It's like bumping a thread after 5 minutes!

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

He posted it yesterday. How much time is enough? Also, did you notice that he asked someone to disprove his statements or they should be held as true. He doesn't believe in proof, and I suspect he is only vaguely aware of the existance of logic.
Czardas
06-06-2005, 17:09
He posted it yesterday. How much time is enough? Also, did you notice that he asked someone to disprove his statements or they should be held as true. He doesn't believe in proof, and I suspect he is only vaguely aware of the existance of logic.I mean, you're saying, "Do you have any proof? No!" Answering for other people will not make you the most popular.
I think Spaam is a socialist/communist, i cannot remember which one.That's a pity, there's a big difference.

And the description isn't nearly detailed enough...

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Jocabia
06-06-2005, 17:21
I mean, you're saying, "Do you have any proof? No!" Answering for other people will not make you the most popular.

You're correct. It was supposed to say this.

Making more stuff up? Have you any figures or stats to prove this? Anything? At all? No? We'll treat it like your other unsupported statements.

That's a pity, there's a big difference.

And the description isn't nearly detailed enough...

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

The reason we are reacting to him this way is he is making up stats to make the US look bad. They are not only made up, but not even close to matching reality. He suggested at one point that health care insurance costs the average American 10,000 dollars and the average Australian 1,000 dollars and then said if you can't disprove that then it must be true (with no evidence to support the statement). He also made spurious claims about privately-held hospitals in the United States and the quality of care found there. I think people complain about a lot of things in the US, but I'm fairly sure that the quality of health care available is high on the list.

EDIT: Also, the reason AB is so incensed by Spaam is that he/she incorrectly equated the US system of government and the NSCL system of government and then used arguments against the US against NSCL. It's a logical fallacy./EDIT

My objective problem with anyone whether I agree with them or not is making unsupported claims and saying they should be treated as facts until someone proves otherwise. I love to be educated on a subject and am excited to have someone change my mind when my thinking is off, but no one should expect that I'm going to be educated or have my mind changed by unsubstantiated assertions. Alien Born and I have disagreed in the past, in this thread in fact, but AB does usually support his (I think male) claims. He is perfectly willing to back up his assertions and tell you why he believes what he believes. This is the way debate should occur.

Disclaimer: I don't particularly like or dislike AB. I just used him as an example. Please treat it as such.
Czardas
06-06-2005, 17:31
The reason we are reacting to him this way is he is making up stats to make the US look bad. They are not only made up, but not even close to matching reality. He suggested at one point that health care insurance costs the average American 10,000 dollars and the average Australian 1,000 dollars and then said if you can't disprove that then it must be true (with no evidence to support the statement). He also made spurious claims about privately-held hospitals in the United States and the quality of care found there. I think people complain about a lot of things in the US, but I'm fairly sure that the quality of health care available is high on the list.Yes. America does have good quality health care, although it does tend to be on the expensive side. According to an article in some American journal (I forget which, I don't remember the author's name, I don't have it with me...but I can find it!) American health insurance is not only quite expensive, but healthcare in general is. Operations at private hospitals, for instance, can cost up to $57,000, and nearly 30% of Americans have insufficient or no health insurance. Nearly 200,000 Americans a year are refused treatment at hospitals because they don't have health insurance. (Again, I'll find the author and journal and post it here when I have time.)
EDIT: Also, the reason AB is so incensed by Spaam is that he/she incorrectly equated the US system of government and the NSCL system of government and then used arguments against the US against NSCL. It's a logical fallacy.There I agree with you. Spaam seems a little, let us say, logically challenged? (I think Spaam is a male, too, but you'll have to check somewhere else...like the player profiles thread...I don't know.)

My objective problem with anyone whether I agree with them or not is making unsupported claims and saying they should be treated as facts until someone proves otherwise. I love to be educated on a subject and am excited to have someone change my mind when my thinking is off, but no one should expect that I'm going to be educated or have my mind changed by unsubstantiated assertions. Alien Born and I have disagreed in the past, in this thread in fact, but AB does usually support his (I think male) claims. He is perfectly willing to back up his assertions and tell you why he believes what he believes. This is the way debate should occur.Again, I agree with you, and you are a person with whom I don't usually agree.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Jocabia
06-06-2005, 17:39
Yes. America does have good quality health care, although it does tend to be on the expensive side. According to an article in some American journal (I forget which, I don't remember the author's name, I don't have it with me...but I can find it!) American health insurance is not only quite expensive, but healthcare in general is. Operations at private hospitals, for instance, can cost up to $57,000, and nearly 30% of Americans have insufficient or no health insurance. Nearly 200,000 Americans a year are refused treatment at hospitals because they don't have health insurance. (Again, I'll find the author and journal and post it here when I have time.)

You don't have to support those claims. American health care is expensive. I agree with that. I think partly because of government involvement (medical associations have strong ties to the government). I also agree that many Americans have little or no insurance. My dispute with Spaam was on the cost of insurance. Health insurance is not prohibitively expensive. In fact, there is a type of health insurance that only applies to the really expensive health care (Disaster insurance or something like that) that is relatively cheap. It would cover costs on those kinds of operations but not for physicals and whatnot. Correction: You may have to support this to satisfy other people.

Again, I agree with you, and you are a person with whom I don't usually agree.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Well, the fact that we disagree doesn't make either one of us illogical. It's possible to walk down two completely different paths though we both walk the same way. We had different starting points and different experiences at the many crossroads.

I generally find your arguments/points to be logical even when I disagree. I hope people find me to be equally reasonable.
Czardas
06-06-2005, 17:46
You don't have to support those claims. American health care is expensive. I agree with that. I think partly because of government involvement (medical associations have strong ties to the government). I also agree that many Americans have little or no insurance. My dispute with Spaam was on the cost of insurance. Health insurance is not prohibitively expensive. In fact, there is a type of health insurance that only applies to the really expensive health care (Disaster insurance or something like that) that is relatively cheap. It would cover costs on those kinds of operations but not for physicals and whatnot. Correction: You may have to support this to satisfy other people. I will, just the article is at home, and I'm not. ;)

Well, the fact that we disagree doesn't make either one of us illogical. It's possible to walk down two completely different paths though we both walk the same way. We had different starting points and different experiences at the many crossroads.

I generally find your arguments/points to be logical even when I disagree. I hope people find me to be equally reasonable.I find your arguments to be reasonable, even if I disagree with you. And I consider it a compliment that my arguments and points are logical. I'm certainly not a very logical person. :)

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Jocabia
06-06-2005, 17:53
I will, just the article is at home, and I'm not. ;)

I find your arguments to be reasonable, even if I disagree with you. And I consider it a compliment that my arguments and points are logical. I'm certainly not a very logical person. :)

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Most people find me to be logical to a fault, cold even, in RL. Except when it comes to choosing girlfriends, where I tend to look for the one who looks most likely to set me on fire and then I declare my undying love for her and her legion of overfed hamsters.
Czardas
06-06-2005, 17:56
Most people find me to be logical to a fault, cold even, in RL. Except when it comes to choosing girlfriends, where I tend to look for the one who looks most likely to set me on fire and then I declare my undying love for her and her legion of overfed hamsters.Well, choosing girlfriends is a totally different matter of course. It's difficult to be logical there. Pure logic and reason in a person would leave no emotion whatsoever, which is not a good thing. (I say that all the time. "Then a lot of people would die and the planet would explode, which is not a good thing." :p)

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Jocabia
06-06-2005, 18:06
Well, choosing girlfriends is a totally different matter of course. It's difficult to be logical there. Pure logic and reason in a person would leave no emotion whatsoever, which is not a good thing. (I say that all the time. "Then a lot of people would die and the planet would explode, which is not a good thing." :p)

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

I think if there were less people, the odds of the planet exploding go down considerably. Unless you believe in the Hitchhiker's Guide.
Czardas
06-06-2005, 18:11
I think if there were less people, the odds of the planet exploding go down considerably. Unless you believe in the Hitchhiker's Guide.The Hitchhiker's Guide is gospel to me! I mean, come on, it has that sort of stuff in a book?

*cough cough*Czardas....?*cough*

Sorry... :(

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Libre Arbitre
06-06-2005, 18:20
Where and how do we create and register a new party for the next general election?
Ariddia
06-06-2005, 18:22
Where and how do we create and register a new party for the next general election?

Start a thread for your party. I think I'm going to do a thread specifically to list all political parties, with links to them; so far, there are parties all over the place, and most people probably aren't aware of half of them.
Melkor Unchained
06-06-2005, 18:26
Anyone mind if I lock this? It's well over the 1300 post limit, and the election is over, soo.... yeah. Doesn't seem like there's much of a point anymore.
Czardas
06-06-2005, 18:27
Anyone mind if I lock this? It's well over the 1300 post limit, and the election is over, soo.... yeah. Doesn't seem like there's much of a point anymore.Sure, go right ahead. We'll always remember it though.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Ariddia
06-06-2005, 18:27
Anyone mind if I lock this? It's well over the 1300 post limit, and the election is over, soo.... yeah. Doesn't seem like there's much of a point anymore.

Hmm... I think any discussion can be shifted to other threads, so that should be ok. As long as this one is preserved for historical value purposes. ;)
Melkor Unchained
06-06-2005, 18:28
Hmm... I think any discussion can be shifted to other threads, so that should be ok. As long as this one is preserved for historical value purposes. ;)
In that case, I'll just archive it.