NationStates Jolt Archive

and just because, allegedly, you do an altruistic act for your own good feelings, doesn't negate the fact it is an altruisic act.
the motive may never be truly altruistic, but the actions can, and its the actions that matter.

So a free person will act in this altruistic way that you want. In that case vote for us as you will have the freedom to act as you see fit under our government, unlike under yours where you will be constrained to ceretain actions, and barred from others as is explicit in your manifesto.



if the purpose of the group is to benefit all people (or those in the group) that is what will be achieved, dispite fighting or disagreement.
No the benefit of the strongest member of the group is what will be obtained at the cosrt of the others. Yes it gives the pseudo justification that it was democratically selected, but it is still the benefit of one at the cost of others, being enforced at gun point.

In the US, most of the good teachers do not want to work in the bad neighborhoods, and they won't. You can't force someone to work where they don't want to, unless that's part of your platform. I think it's someone's right to decide not to work where they feel they may be shot at any time.

Everything isn't so simple... Not here anyway...
if you pay them more money to work in a less desirable neighbourhood then they'll work there

Ruling a nation is much harder than ruling the world... So ill base my discussions as if i was ruling the world :)But you're not ruling the world. You're only ruling a nation. I rule the world. And look what a mess I made of it. *sighs* Maybe the top few parties should name a candidate for Supreme Ruler of the Universe and we can hold a new election.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Ruling a nation is much harder than ruling the world... So ill base my discussions as if i was ruling the world :)

Which is, of course the whole point. So your discussion would be pointless, if it assumes world rulership.

But you're not ruling the world. You're only ruling a nation. I rule the world. And look what a mess I made of it. *sighs* Maybe the top few parties should name a candidate for Supreme Ruler of the Universe and we can hold a new election.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

If you want to do the job, then do it. If not, then do something else, just don't expect us to support your enterprise more than we support all others.

if you pay them more money to work in a less desirable neighbourhood then they'll work there
No, they'll work there because you tell them to and you've got the guns. Choice has nothing to do with it.

First off, explain to me where the exploitation of the poor comes in. The poor must agree to be paid the wages they receive for their labor.

No, because they have no choice. It's either that or starve. Which means those who set those wages can make them as low as they damn well please.


If they are paid low wages, that only means that their labor does not offer much utility to society and is easily replaceable. As for the profit motive, it maintains that a fair labor/wage exchange occurs.


I highly question the fairness of the exchange, when the employer ends up with more money than he knows what to do with, and the employee can barely survive on what he earns. And as for their labour not offering much, is that a reason to deprive them of basic rights as human being?


As for social responsibility, it is a two way street, the person is responsible to society, and the society is responsible to the individual. If the individual doesn't provide utility to the society, the society will not provide utility to the individual. If the individual provides utility to society, the society will provide utility to the individual.

Which is why under a UDCP system everyone would contribute to society, and benefit from it fairly in return.

if you pay them more money to work in a less desirable neighbourhood then they'll work thereDo people really risk their lives for more money in wherever you come from? (Britain I think)

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

http://img15.echo.cx/img15/4277/alone8ym.jpg

now, the former is not true altruism, but it is impossible to be a true altruist in the current society. it requires society to support altruism, to reward it, and to be able to survive as an altruist - the UDCP plan.

So now you want to get rewards for something that is supposedly selfless. Seems somewhat contradictory.

If you want to do the job, then do it. If not, then do something else, just don't expect us to support your enterprise more than we support all others.Hey, practically no-one's supporting me anyway. I've never seen anyone here on NS (or anywhere else for that matter) say "Czardas, we'll back you for reelection!" :(

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Do people really risk their lives for more money in wherever you come from? (Britain I think)

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
no, but in Britain, working in a school in a less desireable neighbourhood doesn't mean risking your life

Which is, of course the whole point. So your discussion would be pointless, if it assumes world rulership.

Well It would ten times easier to rule a nation if I dirint have to worry about crazy warmongers trying to take over my land

No, they'll work there because you tell them to and you've got the guns. Choice has nothing to do with it.
well if that's what you wanna do then good luck with that :rolleyes:

Yeah but nobody would be able to say where the other parties were... unless we drew up a committee!
Why not make each party leader take the test according to their parties ideals and then post them on here?

Well, if the problem is bad neighborhoods, why don't we eliminate bad neighborhoods? Isn't that the whole objective? It's nice to spend money on education, but we'll need to spend more on the police and social welfare to prevent the bad neighborhoods from getting bad education.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

I don't believe you will ever eliminate bad neighborhoods. You would have to eliminate all laziness, all welfare, all manner and means of crime, all those already adult and uneducated, tighten zoning laws, increase social workers and police in the areas, enforce housing regulations and most likely raise the standards, which will raise the prices of the rent in the same places so those there couldn't afford to stay unless they were subsidized, combat all drug addiction, dealing, and change an entire way of upbringing that has been going on for generations. To start with... Income taxes would rise so high no one could afford to live in a home.

I don't believe you can ever get RID of ghettos.

It is unforunate that even though communists/socialists decry the horrors of certain capitalistic actions, claiming that capitalist parties would eliminate ALL economic restrictions (even though this is not true and that they have pledged themselves to human beings' fundamental rights), they refuse to acknowledge previous communist states as even BEING communists. How then can they say that what ALL capitalism is genocidal exploitation if they cannot acknowledge their own missteps? If you do not know yourself, then you are lost.

Altruism cannot come from a communist state. In a communist state, people owe themselves to the government and are at its mercy. They say that if there is nothing to strive for, that if nothing belongs to them but the state, there will be altruism, or even, more fallacious, that there is no altruism exists at all. There could be nothing further from the truth. If you give a person hopes and dreams, if you give them the will to make the world a better place, then they WILL do it. Even animals understand that there is altruism- what of the mother cat who dies to defend her kittens? Would she not do better simply to abandon them and make more? Altruism can be strived for, because it is a goal that is an essential part of human greatness. Ask the Serbians who fought against Hitler's occupation, even though their entire country had been occupied, if humans can do great things for others because they believe. Ask those trade unionists from the Solidarity movement if it is possible to sweat and toil for what is good. Ask firefighters, police officers, soldiers, freedom-lovers of all shapes, sizes and colors. Give people something to achieve, give them freedom, give them something to strive for, fight for, die for and then you will have a better world.

The Meritocratic Representative Republicans acknowledge this and strive for a world like this where those who give of themselves to others can be given the tools to guide those who they have helped to make better. Freedom isn't free and rights can be taken away, but so long as there are altruists, those who toil while others sit by, those who give not for receiving but for greater good, we will be free.

Vote Meritocratic Representative Republican.

if you pay them more money to work in a less desirable neighbourhood then they'll work there

:p You are kidding right? If it such a bad neighbourhood that people fear for their life then either; no amount of money will do it, or it will need to be a lot of money to get them to work there

That would make it either collapse due to no one working there or... cost so much as to be impractical

Why not make each party leader take the test according to their parties ideals and then post them on here?
Thats not a bad idea. get the other leaders to do it and im in

It is unforunate that even though communists/socialists decry the horrors of certain capitalistic actions, claiming that capitalist parties would eliminate ALL economic restrictions (even though this is not true and that they have pledged themselves to human beings' fundamental rights), they refuse to acknowledge previous communist states as even BEING communists. How then can they say that what ALL capitalism is genocidal exploitation if they cannot acknowledge their own missteps? If you do not know yourself, then you are lost.

Altruism cannot come from a communist state. In a communist state, people owe themselves to the government and are at its mercy. They say that if there is nothing to strive for, that if nothing belongs to them but the state, there will be altruism, or even, more fallacious, that there is no altruism exists at all. There could be nothing further from the truth. If you give a person hopes and dreams, if you give them the will to make the world a better place, then they WILL do it. Even animals understand that there is altruism- what of the mother cat who dies to defend her kittens? Would she not do better simply to abandon them and make more? Altruism can be strived for, because it is a goal that is an essential part of human greatness. Ask the Serbians who fought against Hitler's occupation, even though their entire country had been occupied, if humans can do great things for others because they believe. Ask those trade unionists from the Solidarity movement if it is possible to sweat and toil for what is good. Ask firefighters, police officers, soldiers, freedom-lovers of all shapes, sizes and colors. Give people something to achieve, give them freedom, give them something to strive for, fight for, die for and then you will have a better world.

The Meritocratic Representative Republicans acknowledge this and strive for a world like this where those who give of themselves to others can be given the tools to guide those who they have helped to make better. Freedom isn't free and rights can be taken away, but so long as there are altruists, those who toil while others sit by, those who give not for receiving but for greater good, we will be free.

Vote Meritocratic Representative Republican.


What an excellent argument. :) Capitalism is good, communism is bad.

The examples of Communism in the past are so bad that communists today claim they were not communism. I do not remember them saying this at the time of their existence.

It is unforunate that even though communists/socialists decry the horrors of certain capitalistic actions, claiming that capitalist parties would eliminate ALL economic restrictions (even though this is not true and that they have pledged themselves to human beings' fundamental rights), they refuse to acknowledge previous communist states as even BEING communists. How then can they say that what ALL capitalism is genocidal exploitation if they cannot acknowledge their own missteps? If you do not know yourself, then you are lost.

Altruism cannot come from a communist state. In a communist state, people owe themselves to the government and are at its mercy. They say that if there is nothing to strive for, that if nothing belongs to them but the state, there will be altruism, or even, more fallacious, that there is no altruism exists at all. There could be nothing further from the truth. If you give a person hopes and dreams, if you give them the will to make the world a better place, then they WILL do it. Even animals understand that there is altruism- what of the mother cat who dies to defend her kittens? Would she not do better simply to abandon them and make more? Altruism can be strived for, because it is a goal that is an essential part of human greatness. Ask the Serbians who fought against Hitler's occupation, even though their entire country had been occupied, if humans can do great things for others because they believe. Ask those trade unionists from the Solidarity movement if it is possible to sweat and toil for what is good. Ask firefighters, police officers, soldiers, freedom-lovers of all shapes, sizes and colors. Give people something to achieve, give them freedom, give them something to strive for, fight for, die for and then you will have a better world.

The Meritocratic Representative Republicans acknowledge this and strive for a world like this where those who give of themselves to others can be given the tools to guide those who they have helped to make better. Freedom isn't free and rights can be taken away, but so long as there are altruists, those who toil while others sit by, those who give not for receiving but for greater good, we will be free.

Vote Meritocratic Representative Republican.

Well said, but altruism, doing something where you get NOTHING out of it, doesn't exist. The satisfaction of doing something for nothing, is, in fact something. (Bizarre if you're unfamiliar w/that arguement, but it's true.)

No, because they have no choice. It's either that or starve. Which means those who set those wages can make them as low as they damn well please.

No, because if their labor was more valuable than the wage that they were receiving, another employer would higher them at a higher wage. This process would continue until the worker receives a fair wage.

I highly question the fairness of the exchange, when the employer ends up with more money than he knows what to do with, and the employee can barely survive on what he earns. And as for their labour not offering much, is that a reason to deprive them of basic rights as human being?

By eliminating coersion and making every point within the exchange a free decision we are insuring that it is fair. At no point did the millionaire get his money through theft. If society is willing to make him a millionaire, then he must have provided a million dollars worth of utility to society.

Which is why under a UDCP system everyone would contribute to society, and benefit from it fairly in return.

I have already stated why I don't think that equal return is fair return.

no, but in Britain, working in a school in a less desireable neighbourhood doesn't mean risking your lifeI think the original poster referred to the United States, where in certain parts of cities people can get shot or held up for various things (notably drugs or money to buy drugs). Not all the world is as "safe" as your crime-free Utopia, if it even exists. It's an unfortunate fact.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

:p You are kidding right? If it such a bad neighbourhood that people fear for their life then either; no amount of money will do it, or it will need to be a lot of money to get them to work there

That would make it either collapse due to no one working there or... cost so much as to be impracticali'm sorry but i refuse to believe that anyone would honestly believe they were risking their life going to work in a school no matter how bad the neighbourhood (except in America because they have the psycho kids that do the school shootouts) and if there is any schools that bad then i don't think the issue is getting teachers to work there it's making it a safer place!

Why not make each party leader take the test according to their parties ideals and then post them on here?

That's what I said. I've made the thread:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=423366

Why wont you people understand.. Education is the future.... You can brainwash them and practically shape a community on it

no, but in Britain, working in a school in a less desireable neighbourhood doesn't mean risking your life

Obviously you do not live in London. Ever heard of children going round with machetes and knives? It happens, believe me, it is common.

Well said, but altruism, doing something where you get NOTHING out of it, doesn't exist. The satisfaction of doing something for nothing, is, in fact something. (Bizarre if you're unfamiliar w/that arguement, but it's true.)I think it's called hedonism.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Whichever party wins this election, what do they do exactly? On the forums. Or is it just to see who wins?

That's what I said. I've made the thread:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=423366

Good good, i think they should all do it. I am interested to see where FairyTinkArisen will end up, some of what she says seems conservative, other stuff seems Liberal Democrat

I think the original poster referred to the United States, where in certain parts of cities people can get shot or held up for various things (notably drugs or money to buy drugs). Not all the world is as "safe" as your crime-free Utopia, if it even exists. It's an unfortunate fact.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
well i wouldn't run my country like America does, more control on guns and the carrying of sharp objects would of course be needed

I think it's called hedonism.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Then you're saying hedonism=altruism. I'm saying, if you fight for what you think is right, for someone else, you're getting something from it psychologically. That's my point.

It is unforunate that even though communists/socialists decry the horrors of certain capitalistic actions, claiming that capitalist parties would eliminate ALL economic restrictions (even though this is not true and that they have pledged themselves to human beings' fundamental rights), they refuse to acknowledge previous communist states as even BEING communists. How then can they say that what ALL capitalism is genocidal exploitation if they cannot acknowledge their own missteps? If you do not know yourself, then you are lost.

Altruism cannot come from a communist state. In a communist state, people owe themselves to the government and are at its mercy. They say that if there is nothing to strive for, that if nothing belongs to them but the state, there will be altruism, or even, more fallacious, that there is no altruism exists at all. There could be nothing further from the truth. If you give a person hopes and dreams, if you give them the will to make the world a better place, then they WILL do it.
http://armageddonproject.com/ftpdrop/nsclassicliberal4.jpg

:D

i'm sorry but i refuse to believe that anyone would honestly believe they were risking their life going to work in a school no matter how bad the neighbourhood (except in America because they have the psycho kids that do the school shootouts) and if there is any schools that bad then i don't think the issue is getting teachers to work there it's making it a safer place!True.

And I'd like to add to the section in bold that there are plenty of other places where schools are targets. Palestine, Iraq, and Sudan for example. In the first Israeli schools are blown up by Palestinians and vice versa. In Iraq schools set up by the new gov't are blown up by terrorists. In Sudan they're attacked by militants seeking child soldiers. The world is a good deal larger than the English speakers.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

I think the original poster referred to the United States, where in certain parts of cities people can get shot or held up for various things (notably drugs or money to buy drugs). Not all the world is as "safe" as your crime-free Utopia, if it even exists. It's an unfortunate fact.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Thanks for the support but i was referring to Britain, London specifically, and believe me, it is not a crime free utopia, anything but, despite what the government says statistics wise

well i wouldn't run my country like America does, more control on guns and the carrying of sharp objects would of course be needed

heheh! I heard something about banning large steak knives or something in Britain?! :headbang: :p

Then you're saying hedonism=altruism. I'm saying, if you fight for what you think is right, for someone else, you're getting something from it psychologically. That's my point.Well, according to hedonism, you do everything for your own pleasure and altruism does not exist. That's true. So I agree with you.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Obviously you do not live in London. Ever heard of children going round with machetes and knives? It happens, believe me, it is common. :eek: and people have the cheek to say that Blackpool is rough!


well then that's something that would need to be sorted, if you don't give a child somewhere to conceal a weapon then they can't carry them

True.

And I'd like to add to the section in bold that there are plenty of other places where schools are targets. Palestine, Iraq, and Sudan for example. In the first Israeli schools are blown up by Palestinians and vice versa. In Iraq schools set up by the new gov't are blown up by terrorists. In Sudan they're attacked by militants seeking child soldiers. The world is a good deal larger than the English speakers.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Indeed.

well if that's what you wanna do then good luck with that :rolleyes:
Wow, you couldn't possibly have misunderstood my statement any more.

Thanks for the support but i was referring to Britain, London specifically, and believe me, it is not a crime free utopia, anything but, despite what the government says statistics wiseI'm not referring to London. Tink's inability to imagine dangerous neighborhoods is because she lives in a place with a relatively low crime rate.

And there is such thing as sarcasm you know... :rolleyes:

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

I should have run for this damn political campaign thing.. I never knew :(

Well said, but altruism, doing something where you get NOTHING out of it, doesn't exist. The satisfaction of doing something for nothing, is, in fact something. (Bizarre if you're unfamiliar w/that arguement, but it's true.)

I never said that altruism was doing something for nothing. In a way, altruism is doing something for everything a person and those who they sacrifice for need.

well then that's something that would need to be sorted, if you don't give a child somewhere to conceal a weapon then they can't carry themAre you suggesting that children should not wear clothes? :eek: (j/k)

And you don't need somewhere to conceal it. It can be in plain view. Sometimes it is.

In rough neighborhoods, as I explained, people are held up for money with which to buy drugs. If drugs were legal, this would not be such a problem.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

heheh! I heard something about banning large steak knives or something in Britain?! :headbang: :p
i don't think that has been made completely clear to everyone, they mean the big ass knives that are pointed at the end and look like daggers like these:

http://www.eceramic.com/cutlery/images/kt165.jpg

i don't really think it's that big a deal

Wow, you couldn't possibly have misunderstood my statement any more.
well i know you didn't mean that's what i would do because i never said anything about forcing people to work in a place they don't want to

:eek: and people have the cheek to say that Blackpool is rough!

well then that's something that would need to be sorted, if you don't give a child somewhere to conceal a weapon then they can't carry them

Are you advocating they have to walk round nude. Enforced nudity? Thats sick. ;)

i don't think that has been made completely clear to everyone, they mean the big ass knives that are pointed at the end and look like daggers like these:

http://www.eceramic.com/cutlery/images/kt165.jpg

i don't really think it's that big a dealIt is a big deal! People will not be able to chop heavy boards in half with a single strike anymore! :rolleyes:

Seriously, if you outlaw the things, only outlaws will have'em. Like the gun control issue.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Fairy Tink, are you the leader of the Cult party (I would assume so). If so, can you take the political compass (http://politicalcompass.org) test according to the party's policies and post the results here: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=423366 . Thanks.

Are you suggesting that children should not wear clothes? :eek: (j/k)

And you don't need somewhere to conceal it. It can be in plain view. Sometimes it is.

In rough neighborhoods, as I explained, people are held up for money with which to buy drugs. If drugs were legal, this would not be such a problem.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
well if a child is walking down the street or into school with a knife or a machete i think someone is going to notice and do something about it, we need more police on the streets, especially near schools as well

Are you advocating they have to walk round nude. Enforced nudity? Thats sick. ;)
lol, no, but uniforms without pockets to hide things in could work

Fairy Tink, are you the leader of the Cult party (I would assume so). If so, can you take the political compass (http://politicalcompass.org) test according to the party's policies and post the results here: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=423366 . Thanks.Tink is the leader, although Ariddia has a whole lot of influence in the COTP and was its founder (whether or not with her consent I don't know).

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

well i know you didn't mean that's what i would do because i never said anything about forcing people to work in a place they don't want to
Ummmm.. I hate to burst your bubble, but if you're an advocate of state-run schools, you do pretty much have to do this. At least to a certain extent. What would you do if all of the teachers from $DISTRICT came to you and said "fuck this?"

You can't let them go, because then your precious inner-city has no teachers. You can't make them stay, because it would be forcing them to work somewhere they didn't want to work.

Schools are overrated anyway. I learned a lot more about how the world works by living on my own for a year than I ever did from 12 years of public schooling. Meaningful education doesn't come from a bored schoolteacher preaching a state-mandated curriculum. It comes from personal experience and an individual thirst for knowledge. Many people lack this thirst, and making them sit still for eight hours a day listening to the same BS day in and day out won't change their ways, and it won't make them any more intelligent.

It is a big deal! People will not be able to chop heavy boards in half with a single strike anymore! :rolleyes:

Seriously, if you outlaw the things, only outlaws will have'em. Like the gun control issue.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
and is that why guns are more of a problem in America than Britain? :rolleyes:

well if a child is walking down the street or into school with a knife or a machete i think someone is going to notice and do something about it, we need more police on the streets, especially near schools as well

Maybe it would be more effective to actually deal the issue of WHY kids are arming themselves and act in accordance with that then just randomly dot about more fash police officers

well if a child is walking down the street or into school with a knife or a machete i think someone is going to notice and do something about it, we need more police on the streets, especially near schools as well*doubtfully* So wait. Which are you advocating - having more police, or increasing education funding by paying teachers more to teach in bad neighborhoods?

*even more doubtfully* And if both -- I can suspect that that's going to be your answer -- where are all the taxes to pay that going to come from? What is the money going to be diverted from?

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

lol, no, but uniforms without pockets to hide things in could work
Where do they keep their keys? Their wallets? Their phones?

Schools are overrated anyway. I learned a lot more about how the world works by living on my own for a year than I ever did from 12 years of public schooling. Meaningful education doesn't come from a bored schoolteacher preaching a state-mandated curriculum. It comes from personal experience and an individual thirst for knowledge. Many people lack this thirst, and making them sit still for eight hours a day listening to the same BS day in and day out won't change their ways, and it won't make them any more intelligent.True. Education isn't everything. But it's still very important for the future. For example, you need to know math(s) for practically any career; sciences and history for others. And learning at school doesn't just take place in the classroom, but in the lunchroom too. You learn to socially interact with others and to eat properly, and most business in today's world is conducted over the dinner table. So school is important, and you nedd it for your future, but you also need some kind of desire to learn.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Where do they keep their keys? Their wallets? Their phones?Exactly. Outlawing pockets will do little more than outlawing guns would do. In fact, more kids would wear pockets to school, and they would be turned out and wander around on the streets for the rest of the day or longer. Including students with guns and knives and whatnot. Is that what you want?

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

True. Education isn't everything. But it's still very important for the future. For example, you need to know math(s) for practically any career; sciences and history for others. And learning at school doesn't just take place in the classroom, but in the lunchroom too. You learn to socially interact with others and to eat properly, and most business in today's world is conducted over the dinner table. So school is important, and you nedd it for your future, but you also need some kind of desire to learn.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Yeah, but the only people who are going to succeed in any education system are the ones that want to. I'm a pretty smart guy, and I was mediocre at best. Why? Because I had little or no respect for most of the things they were teaching me. If you wanted to boil it down to the basics [ie, math and such], it would still take a lot less than 12 years anyway.

and is that why guns are more of a problem in America than Britain? :rolleyes:No, guns are more of a problem in America because it's in America that all those movies and video games glorifying violence are produced and sell the best.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Yeah, but the only people who are going to succeed in any education system are the ones that want to. I'm a pretty smart guy, and I was mediocre at best. Why? Because I had little or no respect for most of the things they were teaching me. If you wanted to boil it down to the basics [ie, math and such], it would still take a lot less than 12 years anyway.Well, I'm kind of a strange case in here. I got straight As through the first half of my freshman year at high school, and then something happened. Suddenly it wasn't worth it. (That was the time I discovered NS too, but there's no correlation! Really! ;)) My grades went down significantly. I made an effort to raise them, but it was half-hearted. When a smart student puts in half the effort, he gets average grades (Cs and Bs), as I found out to my chagrin.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

No, guns are more of a problem in America because it's in America that all those movies and video games glorifying violence are produced and sell the best.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
:headbang:

Guns are more of a problem in America because we have more idiots. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

*doubtfully* So wait. Which are you advocating - having more police, or increasing education funding by paying teachers more to teach in bad neighborhoods?

*even more doubtfully* And if both -- I can suspect that that's going to be your answer -- where are all the taxes to pay that going to come from? What is the money going to be diverted from?

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
they're not exactly mutually exclusive


i've already said that people who earn more money will pay more taxes

Where do they keep their keys? Their wallets? Their phones?
put them in their bags (and before you say anything, CLEAR bags!)

:headbang:

Guns are more of a problem in America because we have more idiots. Talk about missing the forest for the trees....I was just getting to that, but I didn't want to be banned for trollbaiting, seeing that you, a mod, were participating actively in this debate. It would be like trying to hold up the police station.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

VOTE NS CLASSIC LIBERALS!

http://armageddonproject.com/ftpdrop/nsclassicliberal2.jpg

:D

put them in their bags (and before you say anything, CLEAR bags!)Hmmm...making the bags the target of thieves.

Would you rather the kids hold up people or be held up by people? That's the kind of world we live in today.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

VOTE NS CLASSIC LIBERALS!

:D

Are you the party leader? Can the leader please contribute to this: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=423366

VOTE NS CLASSIC LIBERALS!

http://armageddonproject.com/ftpdrop/nsclassicliberal2.jpg

:DToo late.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Hmmm...making the bags the target of thieves.

Would you rather the kids hold up people or be held up by people? That's the kind of world we live in today.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
more police on the streets would make muggings more difficult

Are you the party leader? Can the leader please contribute to this: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=423366
Nope, I'm just our biggest campaigner. :D

You need to talk to Vittos Ordination or Alien Born and see which one of them has decided to be the leader (VO, I think, but AB represents our ideals better. ;))

more police on the streets would make muggings more difficultOk, let me see:

1) More police on the streets, especially around schools.

2) Children to wear mandatory pocket-free uniforms and carry only clear plastic bags.

3) More money paid to teachers to work in bad neighborhoods.

4) Plus the usual money paid to schools to buy textbooks, desks, and other necessities.

Tink... how much exactly is your education budget again?...

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y81/sleb/POOR.jpg
AGAINST THE ODDS.

VOTE RTP.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y81/sleb/bulldogred.jpg

Ok, let me see:

1) More police on the streets, especially around schools.

2) Children to wear mandatory pocket-free uniforms and carry only clear plastic bags.
Tink wants a POLICE STATE. Sounds like you're describing a reform school for criminals.

Now THAT's Freedom. :rolleyes:

police don't come out of the education budget, parents pay for uniforms not the government (unless parents can't afford uniforms), raising taxes just a little bit for the rich will bring in a fair amount of money

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y81/sleb/POOR.jpg
AGAINST THE ODDS.

VOTE RTP.
http://armageddonproject.com/ftpdrop/nsclassicliberal4.jpg

Tink wants a POLICE STATE. Sounds like you're describing a reform school for criminals.

Now THAT's Freedom. :rolleyes:I know! We must outlaw children for their own sake!

What Tink is advocating is definitely too restrictive. I'm glad I didn't join the COTP.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

http://armageddonproject.com/ftpdrop/nsclassicliberal4.jpg
http://img141.echo.cx/img141/4038/capitalcrime4ge.jpg

Wow, this is just oodles of fun. :D

I was wondering though, why have you chosen to restrict the number of seats to 25? I thought it was going to be something more like 100.

I know! We must outlaw children for their own sake!

What Tink is advocating is definitely too restrictive. I'm glad I didn't join the COTP.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
if it stops kids getting stabbed at school then it stops kids getting stabbed in school

EDIT: i wasn't referring to the outlawing children

police don't come out of the education budget, parents pay for uniforms not the government (unless parents can't afford uniforms), raising taxes just a little bit for the rich will bring in a fair amount of moneyIt's not the police's job to monitor just schools. Many schools I know appoint their own police to do so, paid for by the education budget. And making parents pay for pocketless uniforms? If they're mandatory, and people have to pay for them...and pay high taxes to account for everything else...your citizens will not be too happy with you. Your ideology seems to be that security is the opposite of freedom, and I can tell you, very clearly, that it is not.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

http://img141.echo.cx/img141/4038/capitalcrime4ge.jpg

I would mention again that communism has killed almost a hundred million people, lined the pockets of rich communist party leaders while leaving everyone else to fend for themselves, used their nations as unpaid forced labor, suppressed and murdered dissidents, used artificial famine to control their populations and thus far have failed to come anywhere near the utopia that is dreamed about, but all the communist nations that have appeared so far somehow aren't. But in that case, I suppose what you are protesting isn't at all capitalism, now is it?

if it stops kids getting stabbed at school then it stops kids getting stabbed in school

EDIT: i wasn't referring to the outlawing childrenAren't those the same thing? It seems that one way kids will get stabbed by others at school, and the other way others will get stabbed by kids at school. I say: outlaw school. (From a long-suffering high school student here ;))

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

It's not the police's job to monitor just schools. Many schools I know appoint their own police to do so, paid for by the education budget. And making parents pay for pocketless uniforms? If they're mandatory, and people have to pay for them...and pay high taxes to account for everything else...your citizens will not be too happy with you. Your ideology seems to be that security is the opposite of freedom, and I can tell you, very clearly, that it is not.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universethe extra police on the streets aren't just around schools, i was saying some of them would be, and they wouldn't be paid for out of the education budget.

and in the UK uniforms are mandatory and parents have to pay for them and it works out just fine

Aren't those the same thing? It seems that one way kids will get stabbed by others at school, and the other way others will get stabbed by kids at school. I say: outlaw school. (From a long-suffering high school student here ;))

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
that doesn't make sense to me

I would mention again that communism has killed almost a hundred million people, lined the pockets of rich communist party leaders while leaving everyone else to fend for themselves, used their nations as unpaid forced labor, suppressed and murdered dissidents, used artificial famine to control their populations and thus far have failed to come anywhere near the utopia that is dreamed about, but all the communist nations that have appeared so far somehow aren't. But in that case, I suppose what you are protesting isn't at all capitalism, now is it?Hmmm... you seem to be implying that communism is evil and capitalism is...also evil...?

Communism works on paper, but not in practice. Capitalism works on paper, but not in practice. Which one is better?

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

that doesn't make sense to me
Your post didn't make sense to me, either.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Don't we already have enough RL elections?

I would mention again that communism has killed almost a hundred million people, lined the pockets of rich communist party leaders while leaving everyone else to fend for themselves, used their nations as unpaid forced labor, suppressed and murdered dissidents, used artificial famine to control their populations and thus far have failed to come anywhere near the utopia that is dreamed about, but all the communist nations that have appeared so far somehow aren't. But in that case, I suppose what you are protesting isn't at all capitalism, now is it?

RIGHT
Communism is a system where property is not owned at all, the USSR had been under socialism but with a stalinist twist. China is currently state capitalist. There has never been a trotskyist socialist state which would be run by the people, for the people. On the other hand, we do have a capitalist system which has led to these atrocities occuring and which is responsible for the death of a child every 3 seconds. In the time it took you to read this message about eight kids died thanks to capitalism.

and in the UK uniforms are mandatory and parents have to pay for them and it works out just fineIt seems a strange and twisted system to me, I definitely wouldn't (and don't) advocate it.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Hmmm... you seem to be implying that communism is evil and capitalism is...also evil...?

Communism works on paper, but not in practice. Capitalism works on paper, but not in practice. Which one is better?

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

I am all for one specific form of capitalism. Both economic forms have their vices- any system would-- but one is worse than the other. What I AM saying is that it is unfair and illogical for the communists to simply brush aside communism's wrongdoings and say that 'it's not communism'. Also, they are accusing capitalists of being for an exploitative form of capitalism, or even insinuating that they are racist (as with the slave picture), even though the capitalists have very clearly stated that they are for one form in which essential rights are strongly defended.

WOW! It's like the database blew up. I JUST got back in after 30+ minutes of getting errors and broken pages. :headbang:

WOW! It's like the database blew up. I JUST got back in after 30+ minutes of getting errors and broken pages. :headbang:
Do you think our 600 posts might have done that?

WOW! It's like the database blew up. I JUST got back in after 30+ minutes of getting errors and broken pages. :headbang:Me too. And now I have to leave :(

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Do you think our 600 posts might have done that?No, it was happening all over the forums. I couldn't get onto anything.


~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

I think it's getting better now, but it's still taking really long.

I think it's getting better now, but it's still taking really long.
Yeah. I'm getting the same. It's getting better but still really SLOW.

The figure 100 millions sounds a bit high, where did you find that statistic?

Nope, I'm just our biggest campaigner. :D

You need to talk to Vittos Ordination or Alien Born and see which one of them has decided to be the leader (VO, I think, but AB represents our ideals better. ;))

I do seem to be a bit left of the majority of this party. I'd like to think that I am the one who is keeping it Classic Liberal and not Libertarian.

As for the Political compass, I believe I can keep the party's interests in mind and take personal bias out of it if you want me to take it.

EDIT: Maybe if we averaged out your, Kervoskia's, AB's, and my political compass scores, we could get a reasonable estimate.

The figure 100 millions sounds a bit high, where did you find that statistic?

The Twentieth Century Atlas which has a variety of sources and different impartial numbers. I just averaged them together. It's not that difficult to get that many dead in this age, considering how many billions of people there have been and how much easier it is to kill them en masse.

Oh! Cool! I voted for Classic Liberals...

What does the winning party do anyway? This is new to me.

Nope, I'm just our biggest campaigner. :D

You need to talk to Vittos Ordination or Alien Born and see which one of them has decided to be the leader (VO, I think, but AB represents our ideals better. ;))

VO is our leader, as much as an individualist party has a leader that is. He is definately our founder. I have taken the PC test for the party and posted it in his thread, but I would like VO to do it as well to average the results.

(It came out rather too far to the right for my liking.)

I think I am the farthest "right" among us, see my sig. It may be best to do what VO suggested.

Oh! Cool! I voted for Classic Liberals...

What does the winning party do anyway? This is new to me.

Thank you. We are not sure yet. Probably just get to stick a triumphant phrase in our sigs.

Thank you. We are not sure yet. Probably just get to stick a triumphant phrase in our sigs.

Good enough! ;)

Thank you. We are not sure yet. Probably just get to stick a triumphant phrase in our sigs.
Man, that would be great. Take that socialism.

So now you want to get rewards for something that is supposedly selfless. Seems somewhat contradictory.
whoever said anything about conciously wanting to get reward for an altruistic action? that happens to be the underlying motive.

better that than concious greed that fuels capitalism :rolleyes:


and "society supporting altruism" was not meant in a literal sense




and, sorry, i'm now too tired to respond to any of your earlier posts, VO & AB... they require me to use my brain... i'm gonna watch some spongebob sqarepants instead :cool:
will respond tomorrow

I think I am the farthest "right" among us, see my sig. It may be best to do what VO suggested.

Would that make me the most left? Or am I an enigma?

RIGHT
Communism is a system where property is not owned at all, the USSR had been under socialism but with a stalinist twist. China is currently state capitalist. There has never been a trotskyist socialist state which would be run by the people, for the people. On the other hand, we do have a capitalist system which has led to these atrocities occuring and which is responsible for the death of a child every 3 seconds. In the time it took you to read this message about eight kids died thanks to capitalism.

Considering how every other revolutionary communist system has been publicly by the people for the people and yet has achieved similar levels of death, destruction, and misery, it's not far-fetched to say that a Trotskyite system would only end up at the same point. I'm afraid to say that I'm not a great admirer of Trotsky, considering that he was Lenin's right hand man and brutally suppressed any dissent in Soviet Russia. Also, consider that in the last few decades, because of private investments, poor countries such as India and Brazil that were once importers of grain now export it. Also, although the Tsarist regime was absolutely ruthless and brutal, they were exporting grain before the communists took over. Now Russia, the birthplace of communism, is an importer of grain. This is no coincidence.

Can we post our campaign posters here? :D

EDIT: Here's the first NS Classic Liberal campaign poster.

EDIT2: Added new campaign poster.

EDIT3: Added 3rd campaign poster.

EDIT4: What's a campaign without some blatant propaganda? :D
-snip-
what graphics program you using for those?

Vote for the NS Classic Liberals

STAND UP FOR YOUR FREEDOMS

we need a democratic totalitarian party. or a fascist party. but noone'd join it except me and that good person that keeps trying to get the americans to join the american fascist party.

we need a democratic totalitarian party. or a fascist party. but noone'd join it except me and that good person that keeps trying to get the americans to join the american fascist party.

How can you have a democratic totalitarian state?

How can you have a democratic totalitarian state?

He probably means less civil rights and economic rights but more political rights. Unfortunately, the political rights would most likely be taken away eventually as well.

He probably means less civil rights and economic rights but more political rights. Unfortunately, the political rights would most likely be taken away eventually as well.
That would be the inevitable result as the leader would use his/her powers to suppress civil rights to keep him/her in power.

He probably means less civil rights and economic rights but more political rights. Unfortunately, the political rights would most likely be taken away eventually as well.
yes, that's unfortunantly the reason that the democracy's power must be limited some in order to keep it that powerful, by instuting some sort of law that prohibits people from not being able to vote or from allowing something to remain undivided. all one way or all another, but not to allow anything in between.

Considering how every other revolutionary communist system has been publicly by the people for the people and yet has achieved similar levels of death, destruction, and misery, it's not far-fetched to say that a Trotskyite system would only end up at the same point. I'm afraid to say that I'm not a great admirer of Trotsky, considering that he was Lenin's right hand man and brutally suppressed any dissent in Soviet Russia. Also, consider that in the last few decades, because of private investments, poor countries such as India and Brazil that were once importers of grain now export it. Also, although the Tsarist regime was absolutely ruthless and brutal, they were exporting grain before the communists took over. Now Russia, the birthplace of communism, is an importer of grain. This is no coincidence.
Okay a few things-
1) Most obviously, Russia is not the birthplace of communism. Marx wrote about communism after observing Germany and England but communistic-societies have been around before in the past
2) The majority of communist revolutions have been stunted and turned into an authoritarian muddle because of capitalist states stunting revolutionary activities around the area or economically blockading the country. Nations are forced to turn inwards and leaders attempt to gain control of the people by suppressing them
3) Russia was a very poor country in 1914 but Stalin (despite being a twat) actually managed to economically benefit Russia. I don't have the figures with me but by 1935 Grain and raw materials production had increased significantly
4) India most likely advanced due to improvements in agriculture. It happens all about the world at different times. With India the capitalists manage to bring over superior farming techniques. Big whoop, an international socialist movement could have done the same.
5) Many countries have not been economically benefitted by capitalism. Russia's hardly the superpower it was before being forced into an arms race by America. Chinese peasants and workers are no better off now that the government has turned to state capitalism rather when at least some aspects of a socialist economy remained

Chinese peasants and workers are no better off now that the government has turned to state capitalism rather when at least some aspects of a socialist economy remained

Blatantly untrue, although not all workers are better off, a lot of them are.

we need a democratic totalitarian party. or a fascist party. but noone'd join it except me and that good person that keeps trying to get the americans to join the american fascist party.

bash bash bash the fash.....

I love Oi Polloi

Blatantly untrue, although not all workers are better off, a lot of them are.

No a small group of inner city workers have been able to take advantage of capitalism and rise above everybody else, but the vast majority of people are still living in the same conditions they always were

No a small group of inner city workers have been able to take advantage of capitalism and rise above everybody else, but the vast majority of people are still living in the same conditions they always were
Imposed upon them by a communist government

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/PureMetal/comm.jpg

Edwardo the Communist says
"Vote United Democratic Communist Party or I'll do something nasty to you, you capitalist pig-dog!"



dumbing down of the electoral system? nevar!!1!!1111! ;)

Seeing as you are the united democratic communist party. What would you do if you were ruling a country and the voters voted in a capitalist party?

Also, would you allow opposition parties to participate in free and fair elections?

Imposed upon them by a communist government
and continued under the capitalist government

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/PureMetal/comm.jpg

Edwardo the Communist says
"Vote United Democratic Communist Party or I'll do something nasty to you, you capitalist pig-dog!"



dumbing down of the electoral system? nevar!!1!!1111! ;)

He's got an anarchist teeshirt on, why he's not a communist at all!

and continued under the capitalist government
Only they are moving towards improving living standards now and living standards are now rising across china.

He's got an anarchist teeshirt on, why he's not a communist at all!
he's an anarcho-communist!

Only they are moving towards improving living standards now and living standards are now rising across china.
They're keen to raise the standards of living for people who know how to better exploit the other workers. Wait, why the hell am I trying to defend the Maoists? They were cunts as well...

he's an anarcho-communist!
Pah, just a fancy word for an anarchist scumbag

They're keen to raise the standards of living for people who know how to better exploit the other workers. Wait, why the hell am I trying to defend the Maoists? They were cunts as well...

I can't believe i am trying to defend the current china either


FREE TIBET!!!! AN INDEPENDENT TAIWAN!!

I can't believe i am trying to defend the current china either


FREE TIBET!!!! AN INDEPENDENT TAIWAN!!

I think we can both agree that it's been fucked over by the fact that theres a dictatorship that hogs money for the people highest up in the bureacracy

I think we can both agree that it's been fucked over by the fact that theres a dictatorship that hogs money for the people highest up in the bureacracy

Yep, and subjucates people against there will.

I think we can both agree that it's been fucked over by the fact that theres a dictatorship that hogs money for the people highest up in the bureacracy

Its funny how every Communist revolution has resulted in a totalitarian dictatorship.

Yupaenu, I thought of a slogan for you, courtesy of Jack Lemmon.
Don't you fall into the trap, democracy is full of crap.


Exercise your right to choose, vote NS Classic Liberals

he's an anarcho-communist!

How can an anarchist have an economic policy? Governments have policies.

Its funny how every Communist revolution has resulted in a totalitarian dictatorship.
Its funny how every capitalist society has relied upon violence and exploitation

Which party is the most Christian one? I can't be bothered reading all the details...

Which party is the most Christian one? I can't be bothered reading all the details...

Vote Tink. Or else!

How can an anarchist have an economic policy? Governments have policies.
a mix of non-complete anarchism with communism. there.
its not black and white.


the anarchism comes in giving political power and control over the means of production directly back into the hands of the people, and removing the government as a distinct entity (in the UDCP anyway)

read the manifesto

Trying to work out potential makeup of parliament here;

Communist
Revolutionary Trotskyist Party ----------- ---- 17 --- 5.72%
United Democratic Communist Party -------- -- 31 ---10.44%

Socialist
Democratic Socialist Party ----------- ------ 61 ---20.54%
Cult of TInk Party -------------- ------------ 40 --- 13.47%

Centre Ground
Mole and Other Borrowing Rodents' Alliance --- 8 ---2.69%

Capitalist Liberal
NS Meritocratic Representative Republicans --- 25 ---8.42%
Party of Whatever Works ------------------- 25 --- 8.42%

Libertarian/Classic Liberals
NS Classic Liberals ------------------ ----- 56 --- 18.86%
"Up yours!" Party ------------------ ----- 23 --- 7.74%

Extreme Conservative/Dictatorship
Party of Order ----------------------------- 11 --- 3.70%

Which party is the most Christian one? I can't be bothered reading all the details...
This party?

a mix of non-complete anarchism with communism. there.
its not black and white.

I think people who call themselves anarcho-communists should just call themselves communists. I think the word "anarchy" should be reserved for a more extreme attitude to personal freedom, i.e. that there really is no order. But that's just my opinion.

This party?

The classic liberals is the most christian? Or do you mean that it resembles some christian attitudes without actually favouring christianity?

I think people who call themselves anarcho-communists should just call themselves communists. I think the word "anarchy" should be reserved for a more extreme attitude to personal freedom, i.e. that there really is no order. But that's just my opinion.
perhaps so, but maybe thats why there's the distinction between anarchists and anarcho-communists, who believe in wholly different sets of ideals which just happen to cross over at a few key points

The classic liberals is the most christian? Or do you mean that it resembles some christian attitudes without actually favouring christianity?We have a high religious tolerance is what I meant.
I actually don't know which is the most Christian by 'values'.

The classic liberals is the most christian? Or do you mean that it resembles some christian attitudes without actually favouring christianity?

Don't listen to him EBH. Classic Liberals are the devil.

Trying to work out potential makeup of parliament here;
-snip-

its 4% a seat, 25 seats total.

you do the maths, i'm too tired/lazy

Don't listen to him EBH. Classic Liberals are the devil.
Don't listen to the Communists, they're all raving atheists.

Don't listen to him EBH. Classic Liberals are the devil.

I'm not gonna vote for Tink. She plans to legalise abortion and euthinasia.

I'm not gonna vote for Tink. She plans to legalise abortion and euthinasia.

I'll whip you with my towel if you don't. :sniper:

I'll whip you with my towel if you don't. :sniper:

Sounds kinky. Although I can't see why that would compel him to vote for Tink.

Edit: His not voting for Tink is just a cover of his bitterness for not getting enough fluffles. :p

Don't listen to him EBH. Classic Liberals are the devil.

EBH?

Sounds kinky. Although I can't see why that would compel him to vote for Tink.

Edit: His not voting for Tink is just a cover of his bitterness for not getting enough fluffles. :p

Petty mortal.

its 4% a seat, 25 seats total.

you do the maths, i'm too tired/lazy

I was thinking the balance between left and right but ill do the math soon (or not at all, it is 1.40am)

EBH?

Einsteinian-Big Heads. Won't vote for Tink cause he didn't get many fluffles.

EBH?

Your's Truly

Sounds kinky. Although I can't see why that would compel him to vote for Tink.

Edit: His not voting for Tink is just a cover of his bitterness for not getting enough fluffles. :p

Well, if he get's more fluffles, that's less for us. But tink gets another vote. If he doesn't get any more, more fluffles for us but Tink loses a vote. What do we do?

Petty mortal.

Alright, then, "God', riddle me this:
What's the deal with women?!

Ha ha, who's your messiah now?

Well I can't vote for classic liberals or cult of tink anyway, since I already voted for "the party of whatever works".

Okay a few things-
1) Most obviously, Russia is not the birthplace of communism. Marx wrote about communism after observing Germany and England but communistic-societies have been around before in the past
2) The majority of communist revolutions have been stunted and turned into an authoritarian muddle because of capitalist states stunting revolutionary activities around the area or economically blockading the country. Nations are forced to turn inwards and leaders attempt to gain control of the people by suppressing them
3) Russia was a very poor country in 1914 but Stalin (despite being a twat) actually managed to economically benefit Russia. I don't have the figures with me but by 1935 Grain and raw materials production had increased significantly
4) India most likely advanced due to improvements in agriculture. It happens all about the world at different times. With India the capitalists manage to bring over superior farming techniques. Big whoop, an international socialist movement could have done the same.
5) Many countries have not been economically benefitted by capitalism. Russia's hardly the superpower it was before being forced into an arms race by America. Chinese peasants and workers are no better off now that the government has turned to state capitalism rather when at least some aspects of a socialist economy remained

1. That's hair-splitting, and you knew exactly what I mean. Russia was the first modern communist state.
2.What about all the party bosses and their vice-like grips over the means of production? Also, considering how they came to power not through election but through violent revolution and vicious suppression of all dissent, the capitalist nations are justifiably afraid of these communist states.
3. He also killed more people than Hitler did, as did Mao. You are advocating the ends justify the means and that is a very dangerous and slippery slope. Despite this increase, Stalin's Russia was still far less power than other nations such as the US and was almost defeated by Germany. In fact, it was only because of capitalist aid that Russia even survived.
4. And these advances in agriculture came from capitalist research and development because the scientists knew that they would get a big fat bonus if they did. A communist likely would have just forced everyone onto collective farms and seen a temporary increase followed by stagnation.
5. China's per capita has greatly risen since they became state capitalists as has their production. There is much more of an educated, richer middle class than beforehand.

Well I can't vote for classic liberals or cult of tink anyway, since I already voted for "the party of whatever works".

Traitor! :sniper: You ought to be taken into a crowded square and shot. Ah, guided democracy. Where would we be without it.

Alright, then, "God', riddle me this:
What's the deal with women?!

Ha ha, who's your messiah now?

:sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :gundge: :gundge: :gundge:

VOTE UDCP!


*is off to bed*

Cult of TInk Party ---------------------------------- 3 seats
Democratic Socialist Party -------------------------- 5 seats
Mole and Other Borrowing Rodents' Alliance ---------- 1 seat
NS Classic Liberals ---------------------------------- 5 seats
NS Meritocratic Representative Republicans ---------- 2 seats
Party of Order -------------------------------------- 1 seat
Party of Whatever Works --------------------------- 2 seats
Revolutionary Trotskyist Party ----------------------- 1 seat
United Democratic Communist Party ------------------ 3 seats
"Up yours!" Party ----------------------------------- 2 seats

VOTE NS CLASSIC LIBERALS

VOTE NS CLASSIC LIBERALSi concur
VOTE FOR THE CLASSIC LIBERALS
STAND UP FOR YOUR FREEDOMS

DON'T VOTE NS CLASSIC LIBERALS
did you really mean to say that? ;)


VOTE UDCP so i can go to bed!



edit: 3 seats is just about acceptable i suppose...

i concur

VOTE FOR THE CLASSIC LIBERALS

STAND UP FOR YOUR FREEDOMS

yes sir...

i concur

VOTE FOR THE CLASSIC LIBERALS

STAND UP FOR YOUR FREEDOMS

Commie Catholics standing on the grassy knoll. :sniper:

Commie Catholics standing on the grassy null. :sniper:

Seeing as you are in australia i have nothing to worry about

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos! ;)

yes sir...

Don't you dare.
*whips EBH with towel*

Who looks like a prospective PM?

Traitor! :sniper: You ought to be taken into a crowded square and shot. Ah, guided democracy. Where would we be without it.

I can't be a traitor because I was never allied to you in the first place.

Don't you dare.
*whips EBH with towel*

You have no power over me.

Not gold but only men can make
A people great and strong;
Men who for truth and honor's sake
Stand fast and suffer long.

Brave men who work while others sleep,
Who dare while others fly...
They build a nation's pillars deep
And lift them to the sky.
-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Vote Meritocratic Representative Republicans

That's a nice poem Zeth, mind if I put it in my sig?

Since Ralph Waldo Emerson can't say whether or not, I'll say you can. ;)

Voted Classic Liberal. :cool:

I probably agree most with the programme of the UDCP.

what graphics program you using for those?
Adobe Illustrator CS and Photoshop CS.

<-- professional freelance graphic designer :D

Voted Classic Liberal. :cool:
Nice one.

Voted Classic Liberal. :cool:
Thank you. :)

Been gone for awhile, so:

Have we decided how the representation will be formed and what its function will be?

Who should I vote for?
My political compass thingy said I was -10, -9.75
What does that mean for me party wise?

Been gone for awhile, so:

Have we decided how the representation will be formed and what its function will be?
For every 5% of the vote you have, you receive one representative.
That is about it so far.

For every 5% of the vote you have, you receive one representative.
That is about it so far.

I thought it was 4%?

For every 5% of the vote you have, you receive one representative.
That is about it so far.

Does it have to be a representative or can it be just a representative vote? Can one person fill more than one spot?

Does it have to be a representative or can it be just a representative vote? Can one person fill more than one spot?
I think it may be 4%. Probably one person per spot, I'm not sure about the other question.

Are there enough people in Classic Liberals to fill them?

I think it may be 4%. Probably one person per spot, I'm not sure about the other question.

Are there enough people in Classic Liberals to fill them?

Assuming we dont have a sudden leap forward and take 40% of the vote or something, yes we have enough. There have been at least five people actively pushing the party as well as a couple of other declared supporters who could be coerced into positions of no importance.

I've been described as an anarcho-communist, though I usually refer to myself as just communist.

Assuming we dont have a sudden leap forward and take 40% of the vote or something, yes we have enough. There have been at least five people actively pushing the party as well as a couple of other declared supporters who could be coerced into positions of no importance.
I would propose these as our representatives until we have enough for five reps.

Vittos Ordination
Alien Born
Texaspunditstan
Wegason

<snip>
a couple of other declared supporters who could be coerced into positions of no importance.

Yep, that's me :)

Yep, that's me :)
Welcome aboard.

Welcome aboard.

Thankyou

*curtsies politely*

*sees people think she's ladylike*

*cracks up laughing*

I would propose these as our representatives until we have enough for five reps.

Vittos Ordination
Alien Born
Texaspunditstan
Wegason

I disagree in one point. But surely this should be discussed in our NS Classic Liberals thread, not here.

http://armageddonproject.com/ftpdrop/nsclassicliberal2.jpg

:D

I probably agree most with the programme of the UDCP.

Thank you!


Who should I vote for?
My political compass thingy said I was -10, -9.75
What does that mean for me party wise?


UDCP, of course. ;)

Impressive compass score. Several of our members have about the same.

Who looks like a prospective PM?

So far, probably the leader of the Socialists, if they form a coalition with other left-wing parties to gain a majority of seats.

But the election is far from over. ;)

Help Restore Sanity to the Political Process!

Vote for the Party of Whatever Works!

Wow, its gotten to be a very close race between the leaders. Its going to be a really interesting next three days. Man, this is so much fun. :D

Current Parliament Makeup (Cuz I felt like doing it :p )


Democratic Socialist Party
20.29% - 5 seats

NS Classic Liberals
20.00% - 5 seats

Cult of TInk Party
12.65% - 3 seats

United Democratic Communist Party
10.00% - 3 seats (rounded)

NS Meritocratic Representative Republicans
9.41% - 2 seats

Party of Whatever Works
8.53% - 2 seats

"Up yours!" Party
8.53% - 2 seats

Revolutionary Trotskyist Party
5.00% - 1 seat

Party of Order
3.24% - 1 seat (rounded)

Mole and Other Burrowing Rodents' Alliance
2.35% - 1 seat (rounded)


NOTE: Rounded totals are assigned to the four parties closest to having the actual percentage for that number of seats, the only reason being to bring the total number of seats to 25.

ADDITIONAL NOTE: This is in no way official, I'm just havin fun. :p

EDIT: All percentages as of 340 Total Votes

http://armageddonproject.com/ftpdrop/nsclassicliberal5.jpg

:D

Now, I sleep. :p

No! Check your party thread first! I have a devious plan!

No! Check your party thread first! I have a devious plan!
okay.. checking :)

Woah.. I gotta say I'm surprised it's so close. It's been the two leaders by a 2-3 vote margin almost the entire time. I didn't see that coming, but interesting either way. :)

http://img149.echo.cx/img149/5306/dv12a4xq.jpg

http://imagehost.bizhat.com/img_page.php/1280/6691/mole_poster.jpg

EDIT: The spelling errors have been noted, and being fixed.

http://img236.echo.cx/img236/9583/poster0vf.jpg

http://imagehost.bizhat.com/img_page.php/1280/6691/mole_poster.jpg

EDIT: The spelling errors have been noted, and being fixed.

Your little x strikes fear into my heart.

http://img140.echo.cx/img140/7276/campaign8pj.jpg

Your little x strikes fear into my heart.

http://img140.echo.cx/img140/7276/campaign8pj.jpg

Hmm... the image doesn't work like that. I've edited it, so you can click on my poster instead!!!

http://img228.echo.cx/img228/6298/tnstopus6kg.jpg

Breaking News... Tin plays with his games system :eek:!

EDITED

If i could vote twice, Order would get both my votes.

Breaking News... Tin plays with children!

Ok moley stop now. Thats just way too far.

This just in:...... Moleland is a murderer

Ok moley stop now. Thats just way too far.

Fair enough. :p

This just in:...... Moleland is a murderer

Just in: Legless Pirates smells!

Just in: Legless Pirates smells!
Way to convince a voter :rolleyes:

Way to convince a voter :rolleyes:

I don't care being a murderer anyway. that 'Bum' is a surfacer, and would be destroyed in the big Nuclear BOOM!

http://img49.echo.cx/img49/1618/theevilempire7aj.gif

I don't care being a murderer anyway. that 'Bum' is a surfacer, and would be destroyed in the big Nuclear BOOM!
Screw that. Bums have a right to live too

Screw that. Bums have a right to live too

All surfacers will die, nce my army of giant rats is complete. Ha hA!

Save yourself from this fate!
http://www.english-zone.com/funstuff/ratattack.jpg

Vote MOBRA

And you shall be spared!

Molelands claims are false! There is no rodent army, and he's a sad fool in a bunker!

morning people. Jesus the RTP's taken a beating overnight

http://img182.echo.cx/img182/6356/rtp3cg.jpg

Help Restore Sanity to the Political Process!

Vote for the Party of Whatever Works!

http://home.earthlink.net/~vrflyer/ggsdfalc.jpg

The invasion has already begun... vote for the Party of Order and your lives will be spared.

http://img165.exs.cx/img165/6155/imagemad0zb.jpg
Like it or not, This world WILL be mine.

Vote for the Party of order!

Party Anthem (http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/nintendo/n64/sf64chaos.mid)

Help Give The Workers A Say In Politics-
Vote For The Revolutionary Trotskyist Party!

Wow, its gotten to be a very close race between the leaders. Its going to be a really interesting next three days. Man, this is so much fun. :D

Glad you're enjoying it! :D

http://img205.echo.cx/img205/5850/rtp3cg2dd.jpg

Because there is no true order in your ideals, and you support fools. Vote the Party of Order!

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/4135/kittenkill0lg.jpg

VOTE UDCP!

Vote for freedom and equality!

The capitalists will try to scare you by equating our party with a renewed Soviet Russia. Our answer: Read our manifesto! Read the facts for yourself! Do not listen to lies and propaganda!

Vote for a party that will respect your rights and dignity as a human being, and will give you the freedom to accomplish your dreams! The alternative are the capitalists, who view you as a device to be squeezed for profit, and who want to give even more privilege for the masters of capitalist economy to make ever more senseless profits from the sweat of workers, denied the rightful products of their labour!

DON'T VOTE UDCP. VOTE RTP
The UDCP think that communism can be achieved through the capitalist 'democracy'- does that sound feasible? Lend your support to the revolutionaries and help stick it to the rich

Molelands claims are false! There is no rodent army, and he's a sad fool in a bunker!

TIN is the sad fool in a bunker. The rat army is almost complete!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jean.wright93/galleries/grats/images/beta%20036_jpg.jpg

Fruit today, Surfacers tomorrow!

Save yourself!

VOTE MOBRA!

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Fanfic/Conquest/Advance.jpg

Your armies cannot stand before the might of the Imperial Navy! Vote for the Party of Order, or we will take this planet by force!

Tapping a swamp plus 1 to bring a Swarm of rats into play!

http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/cardpics/BLACK/swarm_of_rats.jpg

With so many rats, we can destroy your armies with ease! and then it will be the surfacers turn!

Vote Mobra!

The UDCP think that communism can be achieved through the capitalist 'democracy'- does that sound feasible? Lend your support to the revolutionaries and help stick it to the rich [/COLOR]

Our answer to the voters is: Read our manifesto! Read the facts. Read the truth. Don't be swayed by baseless propaganda!

Rats or plastic spaceships? Hum, that is a good way to decide on your own future.

Think about it for yourself, vote Classic Liberal

The Manifesto is here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8861528&postcount=1)

Good morning Ariddia, still pushing the cliché I see.

New evidence has come to light about Tin's Stupidity (http://tripplocc213dpg.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/normal_03122003.jpg)

New evidence has come to light about Tin's Stupidity (http://tripplocc213dpg.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/normal_03122003.jpg)

yeah, and look at this-

http://img153.echo.cx/img153/7057/tinmandead4vm.jpg

Our answer to the voters is: Read our manifesto! Read the facts. Read the truth. Don't be swayed by baseless propaganda!
NO DON'T READ THEIR MANIFESTO, IT'S FILLED WITH REFORMIST NONSENSE. FOLLOW THE REVOLUTION!

Rats or plastic spaceships? Hum, that is a good way to decide on your own future.

Think about it for yourself, vote Classic Liberal

The Manifesto is here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8861528&postcount=1)

Good morning Ariddia, still pushing the cliché I see.

Better dead than red!

http://www.nick15.com/comics/political/communism.gif

Vote Mobra

We are not communist!

Good morning Ariddia, still pushing the cliché I see.

Good morning to you! I see your party's still posting its falsehoods and stereotypes about us. :)

TInk Party-Not so Friendly!
http://www.networkingtheinternet.co...swastika-bl.jpg
http://atheist.tamu.edu/~subg/images/jpg/fuhrer.jpg

NO DON'T READ THEIR MANIFESTO!

I think this speaks for itself. Our opponents do not want you to read our manifesto! Ask yourselves why... :p

Good morning to you! I see your party's still posting its falsehoods and stereotypes about us. :)

If you want to call common sense and fact falsehoods and stereotypes, then yes we are :D

But I assume it is better than poster spam, as some are engaged in.

http://www.publiceye.org/gallery/Demonization/Behind_Communism.jpg

A vote for Communism is a vote for the devil!

Vote Mobra!

Nothing like the devil!