NationStates Jolt Archive

Sounds like a plan. Now, to come up with a pretext... hmm, how does "punitive frontier pacification operation" sound?

If McKagan went into Idaho and cleaned it up - wouldn't it make Xirnium more friendly to McKagan? That's a whole stretch of border you wouldn't have to worry about.

For some reason I'm actually starting to like this idea. Who would RP the "resistance."

Oh - TLA, I haven't forgotten about you. I'm going to make the diplomatic thread sometime soon and get you the link, ok?

For some reason I'm actually starting to like this idea. Who would RP the "resistance."

I'm swamped at present, have some ideas, but not enough time to actually RP the resistence. Xirnium and you have a conflict of interest. Maybe Kahanistan, he's rather free (last I heard from him), he could use a puppet called Independent Idaho Warlords or something...

Anyway, if a force enters Idaho and actually trys to tame it the warlords/criminals/survivalists/New Order thugs will likely band together and try to mount an organized campaign of destructive murder. Those who are Torontians might flee back into Southeast Torontia (and may or may not be caught by Xirnium). The "unarmed people" of Idaho will likely welcome anyone who gives them food, medicine, and does not randomly kill them for senseless reasons.

Now there is the IC thing of getting Xirnium interested in taming it (Mckagan already has several interests in it)... Perhaps some pro-New Order violence from accross the border kills a few Xirniumite peacekeepers...

BOOM, next thing you know pacification campaign!

If McKagan went into Idaho and cleaned it up - wouldn't it make Xirnium more friendly to McKagan? That's a whole stretch of border you wouldn't have to worry about.
Somewhat more friendly, yes, it indirectly helps Xirnium so that's always good. The way the Xirniumite Parliament would see it, it's McKagan's money, and if they want to spend it on bringing a hellhole into the 21st Century, then by all means.

Needless to say, Xirnium would never do something like that.

Anyway, if a force enters Idaho and actually trys to tame it the warlords/criminals/survivalists/New Order thugs will likely band together and try to mount an organized campaign of destructive murder. Those who are Torontians might flee back into Southeast Torontia (and may or may not be caught by Xirnium). The "unarmed people" of Idaho will likely welcome anyone who gives them food, medicine, and does not randomly kill them for senseless reasons.
I was thinking of perhaps easing Xirnium's way in, declaring a no-fly zone over Idaho "in order to protect the territorial integrity of the Torontian republic" whilst declaring open season on any military targets of worth. Valuable experience for the Xirniumite Air Force. I assume some of the more wealthy warlords have armoured fighting vehicles of some kind of description?

Now there is the IC thing of getting Xirnium interested in taming it (Mckagan already has several interests in it)... Perhaps some pro-New Order violence from accross the border kills a few Xirniumite peacekeepers...

BOOM, next thing you know pacification campaign!
Or we could do that... but then the response would be somewhat more violent.

To Tame Idaho... Sounds good, wipe out possible New Order supporters (The Warlords who were bribed by Tanakis and such)

A little Black Ops a little assassination.
The Black Hand can kill of Warlords.
Then make a takeover their armies! Free followers!

I haven't followed the Constitutional Convention thread particularly closely the past month or so. What would these Idaho warlord gangster fascist survivalists be doing, who would they be up against, and do they have any kind of an ideology?

I might be able to do something, assuming my huge writing assignment (NOOOOOO!!!!!!), upcoming Spanish class, and possible increased social engagements don't eat up too much of my time.

Given that I haven't had much NS activity (I've been trying to stay out of wars) I might have time for a warlord RP, if I had enough information to work with.

I haven't followed the Constitutional Convention thread particularly closely the past month or so.

Does not really matter from the warlord perspective.


What would these Idaho warlord gangster fascist survivalists be doing, who would they be up against, and do they have any kind of an ideology?

Some pro-New Order, some anti-government/civilization in general, racism (practically everyone is white), some end of the world religous fanaticism, est. They are generally barbarians.

Link for TLA (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11015551#post11015551)

-snip-

Yay, then. I really like the idea of a few McKagan Imperial Marine Corps (MIMC) Generals wanting to restore the pride of the Corps by invading somewhere and making it go over all fast and all.

Of course - it would make it all a bit more fun if someone else droped some dudes in to do stuff too. I'd like for McKagan to have the primary operational force - but having alot of Special Forces running around against MY larger force would be a nice change from having a 4 man DART team hiding from an army.

Kahanistan, details:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11010788&postcount=988

Mckagan: TG

OK, made the puppet... so are there going to be other factions I'd have to fight against, or just the Xirniumite / McKagan / Torontian military?

Also, is there a thread for the continued war?

I assume these troops will have crap guns, AK-47's, AK-74's, M-1's, maybe an occasional M-2 heavy machine gun, but no armored vehicles or aircraft and few RPG's.

P.S. I know how to spell "independent," the game just wouldn't let me type in nation named "Independent Idaho Warlords." Too many letters.

^
Could we have it be PRIMARILY McKagan? I don't care for other people to be in it and I really want everyone to take part - but having McKagan take the lead for once would be great.

BTW - Who are you?

I assume these troops will have crap guns, AK-47's, AK-74's, M-1's, maybe an occasional M-2 heavy machine gun, but no armored vehicles or aircraft and few RPG's.


Can we have them use American weapons? That makes more sense. M16's, the REALLY good warlords get M4's...

This is Kahanistan. Some of us thought it was a good idea if I RP'ed some of the warlords, but if you don't want me to, I won't push the issue.

This is Kahanistan. Some of us thought it was a good idea if I RP'ed some of the warlords, but if you don't want me to, I won't push the issue.

That's ok and really works out good. You're neutral and a good RP'er so we're all good. I just didn't know.

Can we wait a few days before starting this though? I'm going to do a massive surreal post about air dropping the Marines in and stuff. It'll be their first exposure as a LARGE fighting force - I want to do it right.

Also, everyone - is it ok for me to reference to having scout teams in the area a few months prior to the invasion that located some enemy strategic points or something?

Amestria - what is the population of useless civilians?

Can we wait a few days before starting this though? I'm going to do a massive surreal post about air dropping the Marines in and stuff. It'll be their first exposure as a LARGE fighting force - I want to do it right.

I agree, lets wait a few days, I have to get somethings rapped up.

Looking forward to that post Mckagan, take your time.

Also, everyone - is it ok for me to reference to having scout teams in the area a few months prior to the invasion that located some enemy strategic points or something?

Yes, you and Hal. did have a pressence there when you were both backing the TRA.

Amestria - what is the population of useless civilians?

Well they are all useless, the question is how many are armed and how many are not. I would say Idaho's overall population stands at around six million.

^
Could we have it be PRIMARILY McKagan? I don't care for other people to be in it and I really want everyone to take part - but having McKagan take the lead for once would be great.

Yes, that is fine. Xirnium and Amestria will want it pacified but want to spend as little of their own money as possible. The Torontian political parties do not really care what happens there as long as the New Order does not take route.

Amestria may or may not give out the intelligence it collected during its search opperations in Idaho more then a year ago.

Nod...they apparantly have some covert things planned.

Y'know.... there's a good chance i'll come out of this and need to put people on trial (possibly.)

Should we do that Pavelic RP sometime?

Y'know.... there's a good chance i'll come out of this and need to put people on trial (possibly.)

Waste of money, just shoot them.

Should we do that Pavelic RP sometime?

Sometime in the future whe there is less going on.

^
Could we have it be PRIMARILY McKagan? I don't care for other people to be in it and I really want everyone to take part - but having McKagan take the lead for once would be great.

BTW - Who are you?

That is ideal for me. Fighting wars really isn't the Xirniumite Parliament's style (they're seen as costly and crude), so you needn't worry too much from my side.

That said, there are Xirniumite interests at stake (it is next to East Torontia after all) so expect the XDF to drop by from time to time, flexing its military muscle. I'll post the establishment of a no-fly zone in Idaho whenever we get around to making this thread.

Does not really matter from the warlord perspective.
I agree. Given the non-existent infrastructure and communications network of this nation, most people in Idaho probably wouldn’t even be aware of what is happening in the adjacent town, much less another country. They will likely have more immediate concerns than Torontia’s Constitutional Conference, such as finding food and shelter so as to survive for at least another miserable day, or figuring out how best to murder their compatriots.

Can we have them use American weapons? That makes more sense. M16's, the REALLY good warlords get M4's...
Considering since it's Former America, but then again the supposed Millitant Camps in Real World Idaho might have AKs so it's possible either way.

I'll have a reply for you soon McKagan.

Amestria, TG.

And damn, i don't know how i missed all the posts in this over the last few pages.

If McKagan forces go into Idaho, then thats enough reason for Yallak to commit troops if needed.

Waste of money, just shoot them.

If only we could use OOC comments IC - that would be a great asset to Xirniums hunt for the Amestrian war criminals. Quite true though, not appreciated by many people, but quite true - especially when half the guilty people get off free because of loop holes in the law.

Can we wait a few days before starting this though? I'm going to do a massive surreal post about air dropping the Marines in and stuff. It'll be their first exposure as a LARGE fighting force - I want to do it right.

Anytime is good - I'm fairly free from uni work at the moment and all my RP's are progressing quite slowly so yeah.

That is ideal for me. Fighting wars really isn't the Xirniumite Parliament's style (they're seen as costly and crude), so you needn't worry too much from my side.

That said, there are Xirniumite interests at stake (it is next to East Torontia after all) so expect the XDF to drop by from time to time, flexing its military muscle. I'll post the establishment of a no-fly zone in Idaho whenever we get around to making this thread.

Perhaps you could have the XDF put a shitload of people on the border to stop any violence from spreading over?

It looks like IMAF will get to shoot more stuff up randomly!

I love Ace Combat 5. :)

Waste of money, just shoot them.

Good idea. :)

I won't be as sloppy as you though.

NS Earth is a HUGE place. Some random ocean will get some new deposits. :)

Good idea. :)

I won't be as sloppy as you though.

NS Earth is a HUGE place. Some random ocean will get some new deposits. :)

Sloppy! The only reason people found out was leakers in the Kahanistan military assistance force.

Amestria, TG.

Sloppy! The only reason people found out was leakers in the Kahanistan military assistance force.

Exactly.

Bringing foreign powers in on your "dirty little secrets" never goes over well in the long run.

OOC: Would anyone mind if my government decides to send in peacekeepers?

Xirnium would, but by all means.

Well, I just asked out of curiousity. The reason I OOCly want to send in peacekeepers is because I have yet to role-play my peacekeeping corps, which was to be a seperate branch from the main military forces and founded after my conflict with Joint Conglomerates, which sadly died due to RL issues (read - university).

ICly, it's because we want to speed up the process to getting Torontia back on track to democracy and stability. At least for once the SWC doesn't get to imperialize. (While we like the SWC ICly, we aren't too fond of imperialism ourselves, and disagree with them majorly about it)

ICly, it's because we want to speed up the process to getting Torontia back on track to democracy and stability.
Oh, I thought you meant send peackeepers to Idaho, not Torontia. Xirnium would never let Southeast Asia anywhere near Torontia, of that you can be sure.

GAH! Wrong word, did not notice that! Yes, I did mean Idaho.

McKagan wouldn't let anyone not in the Infinite Empire or SWC put a large force in Idaho - anyway.

When are we going to start the actual conference back? We've not done ANYTHING in there for a few months now than have idol conversation. I don't care if someone is busy and can't reply instantly - I myself can't respond because I AM BUSY. That's no excuse to pause the conference RP, though. It could move along slowly but AT LEAST IT WOULD BE MOVING.

Sorry if i'm being anal over this - but what direction is this RP heading in?

I would say we are going to resume the second part of the conference in the next week or so... We will pick up were we left off in negotiations over the Constitution.

Great, that will open up a lot of doors, we can start the insurgency / criminal operations in Idaho, we can finish off the convention and tie up a few loose ends, then see how relations among the main participants continue.

Did somebody say Idaho? Because Independent Montana (Before its deletion) was absorbed by Leafanistani hegenomy after their libertarian lifestyle led to increased decadence. And since the civil war Leafanistani Montana has declared independence again and is using Leafanistani equipment and is getting mighty primed to show its force. Also I'm great at looting and causing havoc, mind if I get in as Mafia and Montana?

Also I'm great at looting and causing havoc, mind if I get in as Mafia and Montana?

Not at all, we needed someone to RP those two factions and the fact that you are great at looting and causing havoc to boot just clenches the deal.

Welcome aboard.

Not at all, we needed someone to RP those two factions and the fact that you are great at looting and causing havoc to boot just clenches the deal.

Welcome aboard.

Should we make a new OOC and IC thread now?

Its going to start sometime next week. Some things first have to be rapped up and then we have to decide what event triggers the decision to crack down.

We are leaning towards pro-New Order forces staging a raid on Southeast Torontia, killing Xirniumite peacekeepers, which results in Xirniumite retaliation (a bombing campaign) and premission for Mckagan to move in and shoot up the place.

How much of a pressence does the Mafia have at present and what is the total strength of the small I.M. force?

Its going to start sometime next week. Some things first have to be rapped up and then we have to decide what event triggers the decision to crack down.

We are leaning towards pro-New Order forces staging a raid on Southeast Torontia, killing Xirniumite peacekeepers, which results in Xirniumite retaliation (a bombing campaign) and premission for Mckagan to move in and shoot up the place.

How much of a pressence does the Mafia have at present and what is the total strength of the small I.M. force?

The Red Mafia is the prominent crime organization in a fractured Idaho thanks to Leafanistani hegemony and Red Mafia ties with the government. Using their massive resources they have killed several warlords and completely destroyed 3 villages to make their point. However, since the Civil War the IM government has been cracking down and forcing the Red Mafia to become more decentralized, currently they can bring to bear at most a small division's worth of soldier worthy troops from all over Idaho and probably another division's worth of irregulars. Which is 40,000 people, if hostilities break out, more people will be recruited.

If they sense peacekeepers they'll begin selling insurgency kits and guns by the dozens, specifically the M16 which is available in large numbers thanks to the collapsed Union bases nearby.

Independent Montana is using the AVT-80 tank with a few AVT-90s and M1A2s in their inventory. They only have 10,000 forces dispersed in the 5 major cities left. The tanks are concentrated in the city of Boise the former capital. This is the strength of Montana.

Leafanistan is too busy with the Civil War to care what its puppet states are doing.

Here's how I want it to go:

I want to make the thread. It's been a long time since i've got to launch a first trike. McKagan is going suddenly land a shitload of paratroops and start moving between settlements.

An insurgency sounds good. Just take into account that ALOT of people will have absolutely no will to fight after what Idaho has been through.

Also - Leaf, I don't care for you to RP I.M. I just want NO sci-fi stuff involved AT ALL.

Here's how I want it to go:

I want to make the thread. It's been a long time since i've got to launch a first trike. McKagan is going suddenly land a shitload of paratroops and start moving between settlements.

An insurgency sounds good. Just take into account that ALOT of people will have absolutely no will to fight after what Idaho has been through.

Also - Leaf, I don't care for you to RP I.M. I just want NO sci-fi stuff involved AT ALL.

OOC: Alright, no Tiberium, it serves no purpose here anyway. And I don't plan to drop an asteriod on you.

And I don't plan to drop an asteriod on you.

That's always a plus.

Now... we get to see Industrial Army vs. Next Generation Army!

Or

Gulf War relived. :p

That's always a plus.

Now... we get to see Industrial Army vs. Next Generation Army!

Or

Gulf War relived. :p

You can't conquer the hearts and minds of a people oppressed.

Mckagan, Xirnium defacto controls the airspace over Idaho at present so they will need a reason to act...(until now they have ignored Idaho).

As I said there could be a raid into Southeast Torontia, stirs up some trouble. Xirnium starts bombing Idaho's warlords/illegal opperations...

(That would be on the Battle Thread by the way).

Then Mckagan jumps in to "pacify" Idaho (new thread about Idaho conflict made by Mckagan, it will be a first strike and it will take everyone by surprise).

An insurgency sounds good. Just take into account that ALOT of people will have absolutely no will to fight after what Idaho has been through.

And a lot of people will welcome Mckagan and with it the prospect of stability while others will have no taste for law and order and from their compounds shoot anyone attempting to restore order.

Mckagan will be helped by the fact that Idaho is rather flat and non-forested. However its complete lack of communications, roads, electricity, and clean water means the Mckagan military will have to depend entirely upon its own systems/supply networks to supply them and the Idaho people in the areas of their control (if they want to supply them).

There will be some New Order era bunkers built by Tanakis for various purposes (he did have a tunnel from Seattle to Idaho after all) that Mckagan would not be aware of unless Tanakis told them (possibly he did, possibly he did not, possibly he forgot about them).

And a lot of people will welcome Mckagan and with it the prospect of stability while others will have no taste for law and order and from their compounds shoot anyone attempting to restore order.

Mckagan will be helped by the fact that Idaho is rather flat and non-forested. However its complete lack of communications, roads, electricity, and clean water means the Mckagan military will have to depend entirely upon its own systems/supply networks to supply them and the Idaho people in the areas of their control (if they want to supply them).

There will be some New Order era bunkers built by Tanakis for various purposes (he did have a tunnel from Seattle to Idaho after all) that Mckagan would not be aware of unless Tanakis told them (possibly he did, possibly he did not, possibly he forgot about them).

Imagine Afghanistan. It has been a while since the Union of American states has collasped and now warlords control the land which is mountainous with a few cities. And Independent Montana will be worried that McKagan is trying to pacify the people. They'll immediately claim they are the legitimate government of Idaho, like the Communists in Afghanistan. People prefer the warlord system because it has worked for so long. After a few generations no one remembers the Union and what life was like back then.

You can't conquer the hearts and minds of a people oppressed.

I can if I cut them out and put them on a stick for everyone else to see. :)

EDIT: You're also assuming that these people will think McKagan is oppressing them. McKagan has a long track record that extends long before Idaho collapsed of liberating oppressed countries. Most would see McKagan as liberators.

Mckagan, Xirnium defacto controls the airspace over Idaho at present so they will need a reason to act...(until now they have ignored Idaho).

As I said there could be a raid into Southeast Torontia, stirs up some trouble. Xirnium starts bombing Idaho's warlords/illegal opperations...

(That would be on the Battle Thread by the way).

Then Mckagan jumps in to "pacify" Idaho (new thread about Idaho conflict made by Mckagan, it will be a first strike and it will take everyone by surprise).

But guess what? That's not how it will work. If I don't start the thread it won't work out like that. Everyone ELSE will see their chance and drop troops in before i get a chance to post.

I want assurances that it will work out by a raid happening and Xirnium bombing - but not invading - then McKagan paradrops people randomly into the area.

I don't want ANYONE to take advantage of how often I can post and airdrop an army in. I want this to be a MCKAGAN operation. I'm not trying to take over the RP or anything, but this is how we planned it out a long time ago. Later on i'll start asking members of the Infinite Empire for assitance and stuff and anyone is free to try and send special forces in.

People prefer the warlord system because it has worked for so long.

Not true. Do you think people would support a system that has brought on tribal warfare and genocides between warlords and has established absolutely NO infrastructure at all? Why would they support that over a 1st world nation that has liberated a shitload of nations?

Not true. Do you think people would support a system that has brought on tribal warfare and genocides between warlords and has established absolutely NO infrastructure at all? Why would they support that over a 1st world nation that has liberated a shitload of nations?

Well, the people of Idaho will know absolutely nothing about Mckagan and most people younger then 33 will be illiterate. Their impressions will focus on results they can see, be they Mckagan bombs blowing them up or Mckagan troops handing out food, building shelthers, and not cutting off their arms/raping them.

Speaking of rape, I would imagene that Idaho has a fairly large population of HIV positive individuals, given the absence of any medical system or sexual education.

Most would see McKagan as liberators.
History is written by the victors my good man.

Well, the people of Idaho will know absolutely nothing about Mckagan and most people younger then 33 will be illiterate. Their impressions will focus on results they can see, be they Mckagan bombs blowing them up or Mckagan troops handing out food, building shelthers, and not cutting off their arms/raping them.

Speaking of rape, I would imagene that Idaho has a fairly large population of HIV positive individuals, given the absence of any medical system or sexual education.

And none of what we discuss here matters unless I can get my assurance that the ground mission will be a solo McKagan operation with me bringing in who I want.

That said - I've always wanted to crush an insurgency. The almost-flat landscape will let me control the borders fairly well. Then it's just a matter of starving off everything else.

And none of what we discuss here matters unless I can get my assurance that the ground mission will be a solo McKagan operation with me bringing in who I want.

Have you not been given assurances?

I'm still not convinced that everyone here understands just where i'd like this to go.

Then again - i'm paranoid.

I want assurances that it will work out by a raid happening and Xirnium bombing - but not invading - then McKagan paradrops people randomly into the area.
Although I won't have Xirnium invade given that scenario, I might still need to conduct some limited ground operations as reprisals. Sort of like a few Vietnam War-style helicopter insertion, search and destroy, hold for x hours and withdraw missions. I will also need to have Xirnium liquidate the leadership of those groups involved.

And, of course, there will be an intense but short lived bombing campaign.

These are all limited operations with limited goals though, and shouldn’t prevent McKagan from fighting the real war.

Then again, you could have it that Xirniumite peacekeepers are not targeted, and then there would be no reason for any involvement.

Kahanistan, TG.

I'm still not convinced that everyone here understands just where i'd like this to go.

We understand. You want a solo McKagan (or later a McKagan led) campaign in Idaho.

*nods*

SEA, responded.

BTW, would the people of Idaho have any knowledge of the widespread belief that POW's were shot in Torontia, and if so, would that affect the way the insurgents in Idaho do battle?

BTW, would the people of Idaho have any knowledge of the widespread belief that POW's were shot in Torontia, and if so, would that affect the way the insurgents in Idaho do battle?
In my opinion, the avearge Idaho citizen would not know, due to almost zero communications. Former New Order elements residing in Idaho (with a relatively more formal structure than your average Idaho warlord) affiliated with the TPLA might be aware, as would groups that maintain ties with the outside world (drug runners, organised crime, etc).

As for how they would do battle, I expect they would be savage, merciless and prone to wanton and senseless violence, against both enemies and civilians. A good comparison might be in the Darfur region of Sudan, a nation which had a 21-year civil war, where extremely cruel atrocities and massacres have been common.

Basically, you need to bare in mind that Idaho has been lawless for more than a quarter of a century. Innocents, especially, would lead miserable, short lives and would be preyed on at will by criminals whom no one can stop.

When RPing the warlord factions, it will probably be necessary for you to show the sheer depravity of the crimes that they are capable of committing against their fellow Idaho compatriots. When there is no rule of law, there really is no limit as to what depth humans will sink to.

Take, for example, this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3698094.stm) real-world atrocity, from southern Darfur, where lawless bands of militias have been allowed to rove around committing atrocities at will (pretty much the case in Independent Idaho). In this case the villagers (including women and children) were set alight, or thrown in fire pits, and burnt alive.

In my opinion, the avearge Idaho citizen would not know, due to almost zero communications. Former New Order elements residing in Idaho (with a relatively more formal structure than your average Idaho warlord) affiliated with the TPLA might be aware, as would groups that maintain ties with the outside world (drug runners, organised crime, etc).

As for how they would do battle, I expect they would be savage, merciless and prone to wanton and senseless violence, against both enemies and civilians. A good comparison might be in the Darfur region of Sudan, a nation which had a 21-year civil war, where extremely cruel atrocities and massacres have been common.

I agree! Although i'll add that those who do actually know about the supposed POW's executions would obviously be much less inclined to surrender (not that many of the people from Idaho would be inclined to surrender anyway given the lifestyle they live).

Although i'll add that those who do actually know about the supposed POW's executions would obviously be much less inclined to surrender (not that many of the people from Idaho would be inclined to surrender anyway given the lifestyle they live).
I agree that most would not be inclined to surrender, in addition because (given the long list of atrocities they've likely had a hand in committing) it's probably the case that only the gallows waits for them anyway.

That said, most of these warlord factions have a weak or informal structure, extremely low discipline, low morale, etc. A highly unstable environment where infighting and assassination is likely an everyday occurrence inside a faction means that your average Idaho soldier is probably poorly motivated, poorly led and a coward. Basically, they will break easily or desert on encountering any modern army, in my opinion, and cease to function as a coherent force.

The threat to an occupying army is from unconventional, small-group raids, not serious battles.

A highly unstable environment where infighting and assassination is likely an everyday occurrence inside a faction means that your average Idaho soldier is probably poorly motivated, poorly led and a coward. Basically, they will break easily or desert on encountering any modern army, in my opinion, and cease to function as a coherent force.

Yeah, a continual vying for power, something along the lines of the ‘barbarian’ tribes in ancient times – the strongest warrior rules. Though there might be a more fanatical group in the faction the warlord might keep as his ‘elite’ force, they’d rather fight to the death they break (think Japanese soldiers in WWII. Only about 200 of around 160,000 or something defending Okinawa were captured the rest fought till death).

The various apocalyptic religious nuts that doubtlessly exist in Idaho would prove somewhat fanatical in defending their areas of control.

Oh, don’t forget that the Blackhand of Nod will be in Idaho doing what Nod does, maneuvering for a geopolitical situation favorable to their interests and the perceived interests of the Lone Alliance (which could mean inadvertently aiding the Mckagan forces, inadvertently hindering them, or deliberately hindering them). They also will be killing all New Order members they can get their hands on.

Oh, don’t forget that the Blackhand of Nod will be in Idaho doing what Nod does, maneuvering for a geopolitical situation favorable to their interests and the perceived interests of the Lone Alliance (which could mean inadvertently aiding the Mckagan forces, inadvertently hindering them, or deliberately hindering them). They also will be killing all New Order members they can get their hands on.

In this case it will be an operation to secure a larger power base for Nod, independent from TLA or any other Nod allies. This isn't even going to be part of the TSU. (Though they will kill off New Order people) Take over the larger Warlord groups, convert their followers, and remove them for 'processing' shipping them to a hidden Nod base.

In this case it will be an operation to secure a larger power base for Nod, independent from TLA or any other Nod allies. This isn't even going to be part of the TSU. (Though they will kill off New Order people) Take over the larger Warlord groups, convert their followers, and remove them for 'processing' shipping them to a hidden Nod base.

Hey, do you realize that that's the sort of thing McKagan would be involved in? If we could arrange some sort of meeting/understanding where our people discuss that. Perhaps after the fighting starts there could be a deal where McKagan allows the Black Hand to secrelty operate and the Black Hand helps take those pesky warlords down?

The way I see it, it'll be near to impossible to wage an insurgency very effectively in Idaho. Think about it. Most people there are fighting more for their personal gain than for their faction. Recruitment would be a real bitch. I've also got a great plan for border security so it won't be like in Torontia.

The biggest threat McKagan has is Independent Montana - and that may work out just like the first Gulf War... especially against 400,000 MIMC Marines.

Actually, as the I.M. forces are outnumbered (even if you count their mafia allies) at around 10,000 (50,000 if you count Mafia people) it will be more like the Gulf war had the Iraqis been horrably outnumbered.

BTW, I have determined that the life expectency for men and women in Idaho would be around 30 years, if not lower, and around 40% of the population would be under 15.

I was just thinking about that - you're right. Iraq had alot of things going for them. Artillery superiority, a shitload of tanks, numbers of infantry, and cheap AA equipment.

McKagan will know that the majority of I.M.'s tanks are in Boise and bomb the holy shit out of them.

It shouldn't be a very long conventional war.

Don't forget Iraq also had a modern communications system and...roads...things Idaho lacks.

Idaho is semi-flat though. I'll be dropping my McKagan Tactical Reaction Force (MTRF) in. They're light, so they'll move fairly well.

I meant that the I.M. will not have much freedom of movement. Have you read Dune? Well I assume it will be like the Barons attack against the Duke, a superior force, in number and power, overwelming a far smaller force of inferior quality that has no where to run.

I meant that the I.M. will not have much freedom of movement. Have you read Dune? Well I assume it will be like the Barons attack against the Duke, a superior force, in number and power, overwelming a far smaller force of inferior quality that has no where to run.

It sounds like fun. :)

Kahanistan, TG again.

Idaho (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11051020)

This is how it was decided we'd start Idaho.

I guess we can have the warlords launch their raid sometime now. Xirnium may not want to do the attack until after that.

I don't know.

We just needed to get it started instead of doing the whole RP in What If form on the OOC thread.

Leaf, I probably should have mentioned it in some way, but the MTRF isn't massing in Torontia. They'll stage in the McKagan bases in San Diego before the attack. It's no big deal - but it just gives you more of a sense of what i'm doing.

Leaf, I probably should have mentioned it in some way, but the MTRF isn't massing in Torontia. They'll stage in the McKagan bases in San Diego before the attack. It's no big deal - but it just gives you more of a sense of what i'm doing.

OOC: How about I make hte intelligence mistaken but right on the point that someone is attacking. Lets make the massing of enemy troops be a goat farmer's conference?

OOC: How about I make hte intelligence mistaken but right on the point that someone is attacking. Lets make the massing of enemy troops be a goat farmer's conference?

That works. :p

That works. :p

Mckagan, TG.

Just an update, but I may not be able to post until after Friday because of an annoying assignment I need to finish.

Just an update, but I may not be able to post until after Friday because of an annoying assignment I need to finish.

RL comes first.

That's completely fine, Xirnium. Everyone here has been called away because of RL at one point or another. It's perfectly expected.

...a freaking meteor needs to hit Torontia. That'll clear this up once and for all.

Honestly, this is practically a low-intensity Vietnam Conflict, giving how long it's been going on and how much saber-rattling has been involved. Oi...

...a freaking meteor needs to hit Torontia. That'll clear this up once and for all.

Honestly, this is practically a low-intensity Vietnam Conflict, giving how long it's been going on and how much saber-rattling has been involved. Oi...

The Torontian conflict is about much more than Torontia now.

...a freaking meteor needs to hit Torontia. That'll clear this up once and for all.

Honestly, this is practically a low-intensity Vietnam Conflict, giving how long it's been going on and how much saber-rattling has been involved. Oi...

There is really no Vietnam as there has been no fighting in Torontia for months and everyone is busy preparing for (hopefully) unification.

That is, unless Saint Fedski's trash-talking under dog leadership comes back in....

I updated all of the Side threads just so you know. TG me if you can guess what the last post in the Seattle thread was really about.

How are we going to do the Idaho thread? Do I just start the assault - or are we going to have someone raid Xirnium first?

Where IS everyone?

I should explain that I’ve only temporarily gotten away from exams, and that I won’t really be free until the end of this month. I’ll try to respond to this raid later today, though.

Mckagan: TG

I should explain that I’ve only temporarily gotten away from exams, and that I won’t really be free until the end of this month. I’ll try to respond to this raid later today, though.

That's ok.

I'm just glad that someone finally responded to the thread again.

OOC: McKagan, telegram.

You all have to give Kahanistan and Xirnium time to respond. Xirnium has not responded and Kahanistan is waiting for her/him (as am I).

Leaf, you can't post on pushing back the warlord troops as Kahanistan is RPing them...also, they are not New Order, they are warlord militia.

The TRA is in currently mostly positioned along the border, there are no New Order troops in Boise, just militia and warlords allied with them.

Give Kahanistan time to respond to the supposed advances, raids, and fire.

I know, Amestria. Last night I was sort of worried about that. I'll slow down a bit.

I still need to make one post about moving the DART's to the south side of the city. That'll be my last post until everyone else catches up.

NSWiki:

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Occupation_of_Torontia

I didn't have all the info, anyone who cares to upgrade it can take a crack at it.

NSWiki:

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Occupation_of_Torontia

I didn't have all the info, anyone who cares to upgrade it can take a crack at it.

Well here's the one on my Page:
http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/The_Lone_Alliance#The_Second_Torontian_War

I'll find some way to merge it into your page.
It's the war from The Lone Alliance's Point of view. While being a little one sided it is pretty good on info.

Kahanistan: TG

Replied, minor edits.

Sorry to be egotistical peeps, but today's my birthday! (I was born sometime around 9.00 p.m. GMT + 8.00)

Hooray for me!

Kahanistan: Two TGs

Mckagan, Leaf...

With Xirnium raining death down upon Boise any advance will have to be halted, the city (whats left of it after 20 years of anarchy) has become a death trap and the Xirniumites presently have no knowledge that I.M. forces are friendly.

Kahanistan: TG

Kahanistan: TG

Kahanistan, TG.

I’ve re-sent a paraphrased version, Kahanistan.

Kahanistan: TG

Kahanistan: TG

Kahanistan: TG

Amestria: TG.

I would like to remind everyone that Idaho has no real money based economy, its economy is entirely barter for everyday exchanges. Only the warlords and crimelords have money.

I would like to remind everyone that Idaho has no real money based economy, its economy is entirely barter for everyday exchanges. Only the warlords and crimelords have money.

What's your opinion on the fuel situation?

Amestria, TG.

What's your opinion on the fuel situation?

Gas would be brought in to fuel private generators owned by the various petty tyrants of Idaho, as well as the odd car/tank, but that would have been brought into the country by air plane (cheap prop planes at that). Fuel convoys by ground would be dangerous to bring into Idaho because of the threat of raids (and the fact they would find it very difficult to get around). Horse/mule is the most common means of travel in Idaho.

I suppose it is possible for fuel to be smuggled in by buckets on horse back or mule (or carried through the tunnels), but we are talking extremely small amounts, militarily negligible.

Amestria, TG.

Kahanistah: Responded

OOC: The reality of a wasteland is that people will survive and they demand things, and with a porous border that doesn't really require enforcing, as only 2 of these groups are dangerous, there is no need to enforce the border, colonizing an area also requires finesse and offering an incentive to join McKagan forces.

He is rather correct.

BTW Leaf: Nice IC post on the people coming into Idaho.

Okay everyone remember the Idaho thread is paused until Xirnium can make her/his third post so no more IC posting.

Mckagan/Leaf: Clear out the purely IC on the Idaho OOC thread.

I'm clearing out, McKagan, fully controlling a border is either a godmode, or in your case, a complete waste of forces. You are spending millions intercepting strawberry and potato trades. Arguing with Amish folk about where they can raise barns, and scolding little girls not to cross arbitary lines.

Ok, here's the thing.

It IS possible to bring gas in. But guess what? ONLY WHAT PEOPLE CAN CARRY. I refuse to accept that people can sneak enough gas into Idaho to move a single armored column. I'm not arguing against the ability to operate a generator. I'm arguing against godmoding the ability for the insurgency to operator armor into existance. There's no reason Leafanistan needs to smuggle gas in for the Independent Montanan forces, McKagan would LET them use fuel trucks.

But again, it would be TIGHT to get enough fuel into survive. To think that enough fuel into run a military operation is simply impossible.

Outside the I.M. forces no one in Idaho even has a "single armored column."

I also assume the I.M. forces, unless they were complete idiots, stocked up on fuel when the cargo planes carrying fuel were still coming in, before the no fly zone.

You are spending millions intercepting strawberry and potato trades. Arguing with Amish folk about where they can raise barns, and scolding little girls not to cross arbitary lines.

That little girl will likely be kidnapped and sold into slavery, or scolded/spanked by her parants for going out alone in such a dangerious area.

Just to point out Leaf, the reason the Mckagan military is in Idaho is to defend their budgets, they are going to be spending as many millions as they can.

It IS possible to bring gas in. But guess what? ONLY WHAT PEOPLE CAN CARRY. I refuse to accept that people can sneak enough gas into Idaho to move a single armored column.

Mckagan: Lose the attitude please.

McKagan won't care how I.M. brings gas in. There's no reason why they couldn't just ask McKagan for protection of ground shipments.

Also, McKagan has a massive fuel surplus.... maybe McKagan could sell it to IM?

[OOC: Link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11191895). It was decided that, due to logistical reasons, another OOC thread is needed. Please use it for all future OOC chatter. Thank you.]

Just to clarify, I am officially back and able to post againg frequently.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled RP...

Amestria, Xirnium, TG's.

Amestria, TG.

Kahanistan TG.

Kahanistan: TG

Kahanistan, TG response please.

Xirnium, TG.

Amestria, TG.

Amestria, another TG.

Xirnium: TG

Xirium TG

And I've finished Nod's part in the Seattle thread. All that's left is to find the leftover bugs and smash them.

I've already told Xirnium what Nod did to get the bug's recordings. If you want to know TG me.

All that's left is to find the leftover bugs and smash them.
About this, since the Convention has been relocated to a new venue, the staff at the Admiralty will have been dismissed in order to allow efficient sweeping of the complex for bugs by the XSIS. They will therefore not be able to be recovered by Nod.

I assume that the Xirniumites will find the bugs and keep them as evidence, but of course there is nothing about them which might help them in the investigation (unless Nod happens to stamp its name on them, which I somehow doubt…)

Kahanistan: TG

Replied.

Kahanistan: TG

Responded.

TGs for Mckagan, Amestria, and Leafanistan.

Nod: TG

Amestria, TG.

TG for you Xirnium, sorry about the delay, was just catching up on all the posts i haven't read yet in the convention thread.

Amestria: Big TG.

Yallak: TG

Reply Dispatched!

Yallak: TG

Mckagan: TG

Nod: TG

Is this a "legendary thread" yet?

Mckagan: TG

... really?

Xirnium: TG

Read and replied to.

Kahanistan: TG

Mckagan: TG

Is this a "legendary thread" yet?
If you desire to see an end to this, why not think of one and jump in? If not, please don't SPAM this thread.

If you desire to see an end to this, why not think of one and jump in? If not, please don't SPAM this thread.

He can't jump in as the RP is closed.

He can't jump in as the RP is closed.

Agreed.

Kahanistan: TG

Replied.

I should have "jumped in" twenty-six pages ago in support of Gen. Tanakis; this hogwash might have been over by now in that case. Oi...

I should have "jumped in" twenty-six pages ago in support of Gen. Tanakis; this hogwash might have been over by now in that case. Oi...

Its hardly hogwash, you could not have jumped in twenty-six pages ago given the thread is closed, and it is Colonel Tanakis btw, not General, and Tanakis is secretly under de facto house arrest by Mckagan, which is not too eager to let him go as he could spill the beans on how they funded the TPLA, among other things.

In the meantime what do you care? You are not involved in this RP.

Xirnium: TG

Duly replied to.

In the meantime what do you care? You are not involved in this RP.
Hate to nitpick Amestria, but he was, in the very first thread of the Torontian saga. It's somewhere deep in between those many pages....

Hate to nitpick Amestria, but he was, in the very first thread of the Torontian saga. It's somewhere deep in between those many pages....

And, that was three threads ago. He is no longer involved.

Xirnium: Another TG

Read and responded to, Amestria.

And, that was three threads ago. He is no longer involved.
Oh yes....erm, never mind. Anyway, Kahanistan, TG response please.

Hey, no need to get snobbish at me.

In any case. If I had known it was going to go on this long, I definately would have hopped in back when the thread started. Hell, if I recall correctly, this was a spin-off of the last big coalition against Kraven, which I was most certainly a major part of.

Damn, what a poor decision...

And, that was three threads ago. He is no longer involved.

Xirnium: Another TG

I'd say that's his decision and not yours.

No, it's pretty much fact. When someone doesn't make a post for three threads and doesn't matter at all in the current thread, that qualifies that person as "no longer being involved." It would serve no use for anyone else to get involved. We, the active members of the RP, made this decision long ago.

Nod: TG

Xirnium: TG.

Hate to nitpick Amestria, but he was, in the very first thread of the Torontian saga. It's somewhere deep in between those many pages....
"Hate to nitpick but... you know... can't help myself" :p

Xirnium: TG.
Replied.

Hell, if I recall correctly, this was a spin-off of the last big coalition against Kraven, which I was most certainly a major part of.
Not precisely. The War against Torontia became a seperate theatre of the larger Kraven Wars in the time before the grand Anti-Kraven Alliance campaigns, during the earlier period of the Xirnium-Kraven War (in fact, the Xirnium-Kraven War is where the Torontian War has its origins).

It was before your time. :)

Mckagan: TG

Mckagan: TG
Ames, TG.

Amestria, Southeast Asia, Xirnium: TG's.

Amestria, Southeast Asia, Xirnium: TG's.
Replied, Kahanistan.

Amestria, Southeast Asia, Xirnium: TG's.
What did you send me again? Anyway, responded.

Xirnium: TG.

Xirnium: TG.
Replied.

Xirnium: Bigger, fatter TG.

Kahanistan, TG.

Yeah, I know the thread's pretty much wrapped up, but this was the only way to get this out... Amestria, Xirnium, TG's.

Yeah, I know the thread's pretty much wrapped up
Hmm, perhaps we need new OOC and IC threads as the Torontian republic enters its brave new world?

Good idea, dunno what we'll do with it, another TG BTW.

TG, Kahanistan.

Xirnium, replied. Amestria, another TG.

I think that right now we should get a Campaign Thread going for the movements of the various parties and things. It could also be for just general military movements - as I believe I want to pull alot of my Torontia based troops out - or at least put them into San Diego/Idaho.

I think just a runup to the elections would be fun.

I've been busy with classes so I haven't been able to put any major thought into writing. Writer's Block.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=494227

New OOC thread, this one's getting long.

Xirnium, TG's.

....(in fact, the Xirnium-Kraven War is where the Torontian War has its origins).

It was before your time. :)

Mmmmm...... a period of threats, betrayal and mass slaughter.... those were the days.

In an unrelated notion, apologies for another absences - ive been fairly busy and then I got sick and then my holidays ended so yeah....

I read something about a thread being wrapped up: What have i missed? Is the covention still going?

[OOC: It's over. And I had too long a writer's block to get any say.... :(]

Mmmmm...... a period of threats, betrayal and mass slaughter.... those were the days.

In an unrelated notion, apologies for another absences - ive been fairly busy and then I got sick and then my holidays ended so yeah....

I read something about a thread being wrapped up: What have i missed? Is the covention still going?

Nope, sorry. The Torontian Constitution has been approved, but there are still warlords and guerrillas running about in Idaho, if you want to help smack them down.

Kahanistan is undertaking an investigation into its own leaders and troops regarding the murders of POW's, the main commander is on trial and the ex-President got busted, that thread is still on hold for the next couple days at least.

I don't know much about what's happening IC to the other nations involved, though.

I have been feeling somewhat ill and have had writers block, but I will be up and about on the 31st.

Eleanor and Sara are going to have tea btw, seperate thread in the NS forum when we rap up the Convention (which I hope to do soon).

Is the covention still going?

Although Lady Gílda has declared the conference finished, there is nothing really stopping your characters or, indeed, anyone's characters from saying something - if they have something to say.

Nope, sorry. The Torontian Constitution has been approved, but there are still warlords and guerrillas running about in Idaho, if you want to help smack them down.


Do you really think that McKagan needs MORE help? :p

OOC: Telegram for Amestria.

OOC: Telegram for Amestria.
Did you have to arise this from the grave?