NationStates Jolt Archive

Well you have a point there however, I still think that Ultra-Nationalism can be a nice reinforcement to keep the soldiers on the lines. If the German Pilots did not have a sense of Nationalism what was to stop them from just trying to mass desert? You could argue their officers would have executed them however those officers would have needed some sort of motivation to do something that drastic, thus the need for the Ultra-Nationalism.

Anyway, regardless of whether Kahanistan manages to keep their sovereignty or ends up as a dismembered nation the way Germany and Korea went (and still is did to this day), my defense ministry is going to go in and help out with their reformations.

If you yourself survive Kravania and other assorted maniacs intent on invasion.

No one is going to invade anyone.

That's all everyone keeps yelling, but there's been such a low number of actual invasions recently I may invest the money I was going to build a new MIMC Division with on a Combat Space Shuttle Program. :)

About my tanks: I used the Merkava II and III against AMF, although Kahanistanian armor didn't play a major role in that conflict.

After the AMF conflict, I upgraded to the Merkava IV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkava IV) tank, importing 23,000 of them from Roman Republic before I got my factories cranking out more.

Also after the AMF war, I upgraded from the MiG-29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan MiG-29) and MiG-31 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan MiG-31) to the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-35. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan MiG-35) I also imported large numbers of B-52's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-52 Stratofortress).

Infantry - Many Kahanistanian infantry are still armed with the M-16 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16) and the more robust AK-74 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-74) and AK-101 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-101) for desert warfare, but the more elite troops are now using the Israeli TAR-21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tavor). Kahanistanian infantry also wear standard NBC suits and body armor over the NBC. Their uniforms go on over the NBC and body armor.

Air Defenses - Consists of AA guns (mainly modified ZSU-23-4 Shilkas) with extra CIWS systems for defense against HARM attacks. Also includes infantry armed with Stingers and ground-launched Patriots and AMRAAM's, so if the Kahanistan Air Force loses air superiority, it is still dangerous for enemy warplanes to fly over Kahanistan with impunity. The compact nature of some of Kahanistan's air defenses makes Denial of Enemy Air Defense a daunting task for an invader.

WMD - After the AMF war, Kahanistan abandoned the use of chemical weapons, but maintains a formidable nuclear arsenal (3,500 ICBM's before the start of the CAD invasion, now down to about 600, most destroyed by enemy forces) with a substantial second-strike capability. An invader in Kahanistan basically has two routes to take: through the cities, which would deter a WMD strike but bring them under fire from heavily defended barricades and armed civilians, or through the desert, where there are no civilians to deter WMD strikes once the defensive lines are breached.

Navy - The ship of the line in the Kahanistanian Navy is the Montana-class battleship. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana class battleship) It also fields numerous smaller destroyers and hunter-killer submarines, in addition to heavy cruisers for engaging enemy air forces and attacking destroyers to pave the way for Kahanistanian submarines to destroy the enemy fleet unopposed.

Recently, Kahanistan has commissioned a super dreadnaught (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Chuck_Norris_class_Super_Dreadnaught), perhaps one of the largest modern vessels in the world. While the original design would have had it fifteen kilometers long and covered with heavy naval guns capable of sinking even the largest enemy warships in a single salvo, engineering concerns forced the scale-down to a 1.5km warship only weighing in at 5.7 million tons (rather than the quarter-gigaton atrocity originally envisioned.) However, while powerful, it is extremely slow, and satellite intelligence can spot it light-years away. It has never seen action, as it was constructed far from the Pwnage front in a secret base on an island far from Kahanistan. At this point, no further dreadnaughts are planned for construction.

A note about Kahanistanian battle carriers: They are modified Nimitz-class, but carry only 60 fighters instead of 85. The extra space is occupied by six 18" (457 mm) guns, two Patriot missile launchers and six extra Phalanx CIWS guns. This enables the battle carrier to survive if directly attacked, but will never stand up to a Doomingslandian battle cruiser in a one-on-one slugfest.

I have a suggestion! Kick the scraps-for-aircraft Mikoyan has made and go with something with nicer lines.

I'm quite partial to Sukhoi's new toy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-47).

Standoff capability is also massive, so I would look into acquiring this missile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novator_KS-172_AAM-L) if you haven't already got it.

Xirnium: TG

Replied, Amestria.

Xirnium' Replied

Army: Compare the L-21 Kodiak with the Merkava IV and trust me, it's superior and just as same the price. And Isselmere, trust me, will sell the Kodiak to you, as he doesn't like Doom as well. On guns, keep them if you like, as it isn't really neccessary to update them.

Air Force: The jets you use won't stand up too long to Doom's air force, especially his Aquila air supremacy fighters. And B-52s are virtually obsolete in the NS world, unless the pilot joystick is in the grasp of a Freek Sentinel (worst-of-the-worst-worst-case-scenario) or ace pilot (bad!). Isselmere also sells good aircraft besides warships, so do a contract deal with him some time.

Navy: Not very far, those Montana-classes shall get. Doom's fleet is still ahead of yours. And if your SD sinks, talk to the shipwrights in my previous post. If it failed because of Kahanistanian inexperience in designing, get FDI (Freethinkers Defence Industries, The Freethinkers, a.k.a. Jim and a.k.a. The Doujin's Maker) or PIW (Portland Iron Works, Sarzonia) or the RSIN to set up shop in Kahanistan, they can help you out.

Air Defenses: Good, but needs improvement. As I said earlier, talk to those that fought Doom and MP, they'll know what to do. Even though you won't buy from Macabees as he's allied with Doom, talk to him OOCly and ask him on helping with a superior mobile AA unit. His Praetorian II MSAMB is a good design.

Southeast Asia, TG.

Kahanistan: Got it and responded. Let's keep the convo going.

Novacom: Don't worry, Saharistan always loses in the end, just when victory is about to get into his hands. Besides, I have ways....

Oh great another ominous misleading statement :p

I do wonder if you get a 1% discount every time you advertise for someone.

Well, on discounts, it actually worked...but at a larger price. I got a 5% discount at PIW for repeatingly mentioning it's great quality vessels in various communiques.

And do you know who is Saharistan Novacom?

I was thinking more along the lines of an additional 1% per mention, in which case your propably close to near 90% discount.

Kravania, Torontia and a whole pack of other as Amestria puts it, "tin pot dictatorships" now a Question for you, since you seem intent on demonstrating mastery of knowledge, tell me how did Admiral Malo Kukonois die, and no it is not in my fact book but it has been mentioned elsewhere. Let's have you running around doing searches for a change and asnwering tricky questions.

I frankly couldn't care less about the Kukonois family.

And yes, you are correct. His original nation, Saharistan, was defeated by Halberdgardia, McKagan, Willink, Space Union, HailandKill and Tannenmille in the Saharistan War. The only reason why he lost was because he WMD-spammed his own nation, resulting in the last few of his allies withdrawing from the war or turning against him. IIRC, his second incarnation was Rovonia, and he got his Islamic fundamentalist terror group, Global Jihad (third puppet I think), destroy Rovonia after having the Rovonian President try to betray the GJ head and send him to Halberdgardia for trial, only for the GJ head to use NBC weapons on Rovonia, destroying most of the members of the Rovonian government and 7/8s of his country. I think Algeristan was his next incarnation, then Arabanistan, then Torontia (unlike his previous two that collapsed, we all know what became of Torontia) and now Kravania. Oh well, he's doomed to lose....

The most success the Torontian Player has had is right now in Kravania. Although I just killed almost 1 million of his personnel, he may actually invade TLA. What I find funny is how the McKagan military has been the most effective of this war, and no one even knows McKagan is fighting. McKagan has taken virtually know losses while at the same time destroying a major Kravanian Air Fleet and many, many bases.

When he was Arabanistan he got us to throw Willink out of the SWC... but McKagan has a non-SWC alliance with Willink now anyway. :)

Oh well, at least he is learning from his mistakes after nearly half a dozen or so puppets and using diplomacy more effectively. Hopefully he'll be a more worthy foe in this incarnation.

Yallak, replied to your TG.

And mine....

then Torontia (unlike his previous two that collapsed, we all know what became of Torontia)

It is very fortunate that Torontia had not purchased or aquired nukes before it entered the Xirnium conflict on Kravens side...

Given Saharistan's tendency to leave as many corpses behind as possible, Torontia's internal collapse was rather bloodless (when compared to his other nations). I doubt that there will be anything left of Kravania after the war...

It is very fortunate that Torontia had not purchased or aquired nukes before it entered the Xirnium conflict on Kravens side..
Fortunate for Torontia, it would not exist today if it had.

Fortunate for Torontia, it would not exist today if it had.

It almost didn't survive anyway.

It is very fortunate that Torontia had not purchased or aquired nukes before it entered the Xirnium conflict on Kravens side...

Given Saharistan's tendency to leave as many corpses behind as possible, Torontia's internal collapse was rather bloodless (when compared to his other nations). I doubt that there will be anything left of Kravania after the war...
Well considering Raven Corps just hit the place with a couple hundred super weapons. I severely doubt it now. I actually played his own game in Propaganda and beat him at it, Heck I have capitalists and even Facists on my side now. It's now 8 nations against 3. (Of course 2 of the three are RB and Parthia, but still) And with Parthia now getting invaded, Kravania, being glassed. Only threat left is Roach-Busters. McKagan TG.

And I should have capitalized on my sadly to be incomplete bicameral condemnation with Praetonia about the cancelled Yallakian missile spam attack on civilian infrastructure....that was GENOCIDE for crying out loud!

Now I wonder how would the High Council like it if the sandal were on their foot.... :rolleyes:

Southeast Asia: There (http://www.nationstates.net/84137/page=telegrams) you go.

Now I wonder how would the High Council like it if the sandal were on their foot.... :rolleyes:

If Yallak was being exterminated? If so - it'd mean that id pissed off a lot of the wrong people.

Anyway, my missiles strike was nothing more than retaliation (genocide is acceptable when your fighting those whos purpose is to wipe your population out completely and use the land.)

Kahanistan, responded. Keep the conversation going.

Yallak, genocide isn't justified even if you are under genocide yourself. Tanakis does not represent the Torontian people in general, he represents the miserable, petty low-lives of the world, and how horribly power can be abused when a criminal gets into a high ranking position of authority.

He may well be, but that does not concern the Empire. If the nation of Torontia was too weak to stand up to someone enforcing his will upon them and ordering them to commit genocide against their wishes, then they did not oppose him so much as for Yallak to consider “Tanakis does not represent the Torontian people in general.”

Like a few of Saharistan's puppets (which die out of OOC inactivity), all of them being radical totalitarian regimes, it would have eventually collapsed due to the very thing that prevents rebellious dissentients in their nation: the secret police. Like in RL communist Poland, eventually, the population became too big and too much of the funding had to go to the Secret Police to keep dissentients in line, resulting in discontent within the government, and eventually falling apart. Or any of the SWC nation's intelligence agencies rig an assassination of the crackpot dictator, resulting in a beginning of a governmental collapse.

Oh, and the Empire couldn't even take care of a couple of puppet governments from fighting over their lands, both seeing the other as imperialist pigs and hating each other. They needed one of their valuable and precious "protectorate-pacts" to carefully manipulate events behind the scenes (that also unintentionally resulted in an OOC flamefest and the rp nearly being wrecked, a la the Roach Busters War, the main reason why Sarzonia left: he saw too many parallels to the RB War and felt that he was stepping on thin ice....he was right), when they could easily have threatened them to go out using their vast military. :rolleyes:

So much for infinity!

Oh, and the Empire couldn't even take care of a couple of puppet governments from fighting over their lands, both seeing the other as imperialist pigs and hating each other. They needed one of their valuable and precious "protectorate-pacts" to carefully manipulate events behind the scenes (that also unintentionally resulted in an OOC flamefest and the rp nearly being wrecked, a la the Roach Busters War, the main reason why Sarzonia left: he saw too many parallels to the RB War and felt that he was stepping on thin ice....he was right), when they could easily have threatened them to go out using their vast military. :rolleyes:

So much for infinity!

Was there a point in all that? The Empire had no reason to blow the living hell out of the other nations present in Torontia, and that would have intervened in the goal to secure the nation.

Like in RL communist Poland, eventually, the population became too big and too much of the funding had to go to the Secret Police to keep dissentients in line, resulting in discontent within the fascist government, and eventually falling apart.
This is a completely flawed description of the fall of communism in Poland, and does not even consider at all the economic catastrophes of the Gierek decade which led to workers strikes during the seventies, the rise of Solidarity, more economic catastrophes under Jaruzelski in the 80s after Solidarity was smashed, and the effect of the Gorbachev policies of glasnost and perestroika.

To blame the Polish government's expenditure on the secret police as not only a factor but the primary factor for the fall of communism is absurd.

Plus, the Polish government during this area was not fascist, like you said, but communist.

I noticed the fascist government bit and corrected it. The Secret Police needing insane funding part was actually more of one of the many factors (like the late John Paul II). Also, don't blame me for starting the debate: Amestria did with the not acquiring nukes bit, followed by Xirnium's and Yallak's comments.

Yallak, after making an example out of the Kravenite Navy and the collapse of Torontia, do you even need to fire a shot? There's something called "words" and a saying that the "pen is mightier than the sword" - given your size and your military, and that Amestria wants to get on the Infinite Empire's good side and SF would have been very easily intimidated into complying using only words after making those actions, both would have done so.

Just like the State of Amestria threatening to use their nuclear arsenal on the Allied States of The Lone Alliance, only in this case, Amestria had a better budget on military spending, and the high ground. TLA pulled out and Amestria raised it's imperial level up.

You wouldn't need to actually do it, just threaten them.

Amestria did with the not acquiring nukes bit, followed by Xirnium's and Yallak's comments.

So you are blaming me?! (Quite rage!)


Just like the State of Amestria threatening to use their nuclear arsenal on the Allied States of The Lone Alliance, only in this case, Amestria had a better budget on military spending, and the high ground. TLA pulled out and Amestria raised it's imperial level up.

You wouldn't need to actually do it, just threaten them.

Oh Amestria meant it, it was not an idle threat, and if there had been a nuclear war both Amestria and the TLA would have been wiped out (MAD). The Lone Alliance ended its plans to nuke Torontia because it did not want to be destroyed by Amestria (and destroying Amestria in return would have been an empty futile victory). That better budget would not have made a difference...

Thats not actually accurate: I initially used my size and military power to try and force subordination from Saint Fedski - It worked against Red Tide and Amestria (as observed didn't want to lose my support) but ultimately failed because (mainly) SF OOCly wanted to be the underdog fighting against the odds in Torontia.

Plus you need to realise that not everyone is concerned with reputations and past exploits, and will not just bow because someone wiped out the Kraven navy.

Also, don't blame me for starting the debate
I don't, I blame you for making silly statements about history which aren't accurate.

Amestria: I was stating what you said triggered a debate, no offense intended. I didn't know whether or not you meant, thanks very much for clarifying it, it doesn't matter though. Anybody that gets threatened with a nuclear arsenal and has a degree of rationality would back down, and TLA would have done it anyway considering you the fact that you had the moral high ground and the international community would drown them in a political sea of gore if they actually nuked Torontia out of personal vendetta (the New Order Regime killed a friend of several members of the Council of Twenty).

Yallak: Then why did Saint Fedski in an OOC TG say that he felt that Amestria was "piggybacking" you, and that he was dragging people that were people not previously involved in an rp, and that he sounded like he was in panic mode?

Xirnium: Yes, I need to check my history book again.

Yallak: Then why did Saint Fedski in an OOC TG say that he felt that Amestria was "piggybacking" you, and that he was dragging people that were people not previously involved in an rp, and that he sounded like he was in panic mode?

No idea - but i can tell you that he wrote that to me in one of the OOC threads (or possibly a TG) after the fighting had stopped.

Negative. I recall it clearly. He said that he liked to rp his characters the underdog, not go up against all odds.

Amestria: I was stating what you said triggered a debate, no offense intended
What debate? What have I been missing?

Let's keep the previous arguments about SF and Amestria dead please, it'll end up errupting and making things worse.

Pardon my wrong choice of word Xirnium...now I forgot what was supposed to be in place of that.

Novacom, do you know why Sarzonia left the rp? Because he saw too many parallels to the Roach-Busters War....TG him for more details and info, cos' I agree, we should let that drop....

Just to clarify, the TLP Rep. has been so quiet at the conference because there's no reason for him to talk. The TLP doesn't have power on the scale that it will "lose" anything by most of the calls we're making here. However, the TLP has to stop the TNCP from gaining so much power it will have a monopoly. That's what it's doing.

So Hal and X, what will be Kil's reaction should my one-in-quadrillion-chance plan involving the EOE, human rights and civil liberties, actually succeed?

Xirnium: TG regarding your latest post...

Well, should this rp still be kept closed?

I don't think it is, haven't the Torontian RPs been open since the end of the Saint Fedski-Amestrian occupations?

I don't care one way or the other, but I'm pretty sure the Constitutional Convention thread is closed.

I don't think it is, haven't the Torontian RPs been open since the end of the Saint Fedski-Amestrian occupations?

No, it is still closed... mainly because it is at the stage were it makes no sense for it to be open.

BTW: The soonest I may be able to post on the Convention thread is Thursday (the day I turn in my English paper).

I agree with Amestria - It should be kept closed simply because there's no way to open it.

BTW: The soonest I may be able to post on the Convention thread is Thursday (the day I turn in my English paper).
Speaking of which, you did get my reply to your inquiry, right? I understand that you are very busy, I only ask because occasionally my TGs don’t make it and get lost somewhere in the aether (personally, I blame NS).

I agree with Amestria - It should be kept closed simply because there's no way to open it.
To be honest, I don't see why any nation that wants to talk about Constitutionalism in Torontia couldn't come to the Convention, but if everyone thinks it should remain closed then that's fine by me.

Speaking of which, you did get my reply to your inquiry, right? I understand that you are very busy, I only ask because occasionally my TGs don’t make it and get lost somewhere in the aether (personally, I blame NS).

I got it, don't worry. Just busy.

I agree with Amestria - It should be kept closed simply because there's no way to open it.
Where there's a will, there's a way.

Kahanistan: TG

Amestria: Read.

Amestria, TG.

Kahanistan: Responded

Amestria, TG.

Amestria, TG.

Responded.

Xirnium, how about Ho's message?

Xirnium, how about Ho's message?

He can catch her when everyone starts to file back in, assume that the ambassodor in the confusion of the mass exit missed her...

He could hand it to the deputy Minister who is leaning against the wall by the door having a smoke...

Xirnium, how about Ho's message
I was waiting for Mr Ho to approach Lady Gilda, but he never did. As Amestria suggested, Ho can hang around and catch her later, or give it to Lady Sabelina (but I think Mr Neo said it was for the Foreign Minister’s eyes only, right?), or walk around aimlessly looking for her, or leave it with the Xirniumite delegation in the conference hall to hand it to her later.

Lady Sabelina could be asked simply to hold onto it and give it to Heather when she sees her next. Even if its just meant for Heather, Sabelina will probably be privy to it anyway...

Xirnium: TG

Xirnium: TG
Responded.

It was meant to be vice versa, on the approachment thing. Never mind....

It was meant to be vice versa, on the approachment thing. Never mind....

Ho seems to be the sort that one would not want to approach after several hours of constant talking and debate... Even his own delegation do not seem to like him...

Precisely. The character I modelled him off is off a classmate I perceived narcissistic along with arrogant character, and to some (very limited) degrees, myself.

Don't worry Xirnium, I read the message before you deleted it (and even before you edited it the first time), and I understand the meaning.

Xirnium TG.

Amestria, TG.

Excuse my absence - long story. Can some one sum up what iv missed in the last several pages?

Excuse my absence - long story. Can some one sum up what iv missed in the last several pages?
Let's see, the conference has now ended for a break, the Democratic Soviet Republic has got it's conventional military arm broken by the Doomingslandian and Pwnage navies and air forces, and my Defense Minister is helping them out with the Sarzonians, Isselmerian-Nielanders, Xirniumites, Velkyans and MelekTaus delegations. And my ambassador has a message he is going to deliever to Dr. Gilda.

Whats been decided on so far in the convention?

The judicial system, which Amestria disagrees with (it uses the French system and Amestria is based off RL Germany and France, and as it's judicial system is French, it puts the Judge in power of the investigation, so one could say that the judge could bias it in favor of once side), is soon going to be decided. Some things have been decided, others have not.

But oh well, so far the conference has been interesting character development, agree not, Xirnium? ;)

Whats been decided on so far in the convention?
Hello Yallak, its good to hear from you again.

Much has happened. Off the top of my head, we've hammered out the Executive and Legislative arms (Westiminster-style (ie, strong) Parliament with German-style (ie, weak) President), we've agreed to insert strong secular clauses in the Constitution, divided most powers along federal/state lines...

Of course, discussion on none of the issues is closed, all topics are open for debate.

The main thing that remains is the judicial system. Xirnium strongly favours one based on the Common Law (doctrine of precedent, adversarial system, adjudicatory judge, jury trials, etc), and has been supported by McKagan, while Amestria has been pushing for their own country's style of Civil Law (inquisitorial system, law Codes, etc).

The Yallakian Emperor's input would be appreciated when the Constitutional Convention reconvenes.

Ok. Thanks.

I'll read through the older stuff as time permits but I should be good to go from this point on.

What are the Infinite Empire's views on law? To my understanding, Amestria is alone amongst the nations in the Conference in following the Civil Law and inquisitorial models, except I'm not sure exactly how the Yallakian Courts work.

I made a post somewhere once describing my judicial system but can't remember where it was - but in short - it works on a jury system (which is run under Imperial Laws): pretty much how we RP'd in the Xirnium High Court

Ahh, excellent. So I assume that Lord Balor and the Xirniumite delegation will have much in common when we get back into the Conference...

They will indeed. The Empire would support no judicial system that didn't involve some kind of trial by jury.

My judicial system is modelled off the one in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and like the most of my government, possesses United States influences.

My judicial system is modelled off the one in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and like the most of my government, possesses United States influences.
I suspect that the judicial system of your nation and Xirnium are likely very similar, with the obvious difference that the Xirniumite Courts theoretically only have limited judicial review of Legislative function (due to the fact that Xirnium does not possessing a written Constitution, but rather a Common Law one, like the UK).

As in to say, yes, I am joining the judicial dog-pile against the Amestrian Civil Law argument.

I would have thought you would be in transition from a system similar to Amestria to a court system, since usually when someone has an inquisition you assume them to be a primary organ of law giving.

Certainly some interesting things going on.

I would have thought you would be in transition from a system similar to Amestria to a court system, since usually when someone has an inquisition you assume them to be a primary organ of law giving.
The Inquisition was never a judicial body though, it was a statutory Executive body (specifically, an intelligence agency) created by and under the control of the High Ecclesiarchy. It was also only ever a weak organisation politically, and easily overuled by the Courts and Parliament.

Since the formation of the ancient Common Law Courts, the High Supreme Court has jealously and ruthlessly defended the independence of the judiciary, and would never allow a rival organisation to be formed (it would be declared unconstitutional immediately).

It certainly never gave the impression of being weak, though we never did see it get over-ruled often, if ever from what I've seen at least.

I suppose the need never came up during any of my past stories that involved Inquisitors. Nevertheless, here is an interesting exchange that I got from the old "Death of a Living God" thread:

‘Ahh, Inquisitor. You're late,’ said the Deputy Chief Constable Verton dourly.

‘You can’t expect the Inquisition to drop whatever they are doing to come at a moment’s notice to assist the Constabulary in every little case they are involved in. The only reason I’m here at all is because the Lord Chief Constable himself requested my presence, and because Inquisitor-General Lord Norogoth ordered me,’ explained the Lady Inquisitor.

‘Well, I don’t know what they told you down at the Inquisition, but your organisation requested us to allow you to be involved in this, Inquisitor.

You’re only here because we allow you to be,’ retorted Verton. That’ll put the Inquisitor in her place..

The Inquisition was never nearly as powerful as some tend to think, its intelligence jurisidiction was quite narrow.

Xirnium, telegram response wanted!

Southeast Asia, TG in regard to your latest post.

with German-style (ie, weak) President),

Actually, the President is a combination of French and German characteristics.

while Amestria has been pushing for their own country's style of Civil Law (inquisitorial system, law Codes, etc).

Also, six court systems of specialized jurisdiction, (which is what Amestria has) and would be a really good system for Torontia.

The main thing that remains is the judicial system.

And a Bill of Rights and Liberties.

After that there are simply a few odds and ends to go over...

I would have thought you would be in transition from a system similar to Amestria to a court system, since usually when someone has an inquisition you assume them to be a primary organ of law giving.

I think you are confusing the former Xirniumite Inquisition, an intelligence agency, with the Inquisitiorial Court System, generally found in Civil Law countries (like Amestria).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisitional_system

Historically Amestria's current Court System is Royal in origin, set up by the Ancien Régime's Universial Loi Royale du roy (the Universial Royal Law of the kingdom) and was somewhat restructured by the First Republic and the regime of Leader King Adrien Bradley (the Leader of Amestria's first Military Dictatorship). Certain vestigial Royal elements remain, such as the Courts at times being refered to as "Royal Courts" and ending session with the words "Long Live the King." (I should note that the Amestrian Inquisitorial System does not have trial by Jury, virdicts are decided by a panal of three to five judges).

Common Law countries, such as Xirnium, generally employ the Adversarial Court System.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adversarial_system

Amestria, TG.

Amestria, TG.

Responded.

Xirnium: TG

Amestria, TG.

Amestria, TG.

Responded.

Xirnium: TG
Read and responded.

Read and responded.

Read and Responded.

Read and Responded.
Responded.

Responded.

Responded.

Also, six court systems of specialized jurisdiction, (which is what Amestria has) and would be a really good system for Torontia.
The concept is not entirely unheard of in Holy Xirnium. For example, some of the Courts of specialist jurisdiction in Xirniumite legal history include the Family Court, the Chancery Courts (dealt with all areas of Equity Law until they were abolished, and theit jurisdiction surrendered to the Common Law Courts) and the Maritime Court (dealt with all areas of Contract, Tort and Criminal Law relevent to the sea until it was abolished).

Of course, of these three only the High Chancery Court was a Court of final appeal (for Equity, mind you) but still... the precedent is there. Seperate Court systems did once exist in Xirnium.

Xirnium: Got two more TG's for you.

Xirnium: TG(s)

Amestria, replied to your TG(s).

Xirnium, care for a little agreement to be reached? This is Amestria's suggestion on what to do to get the message to Gilda in a telegram.
Here's an excellent idea, Mr. Ho could simply begin to begin looking for Lady Gilda so as to give her his message... Needless to say he would first have to start looking around the entire admiralty building.

He can bump into Heather and Sara as they come back in from the garden (they meet at the door so to speak). Perhaps he could then remark out-load, "oh I was just about to search for you there in the garden" or something (which would give the very private Heather a heart-attack).

That way you can have Mr. Ho deliver the message and have a presence without disrupting the wonderfully crafted scene in the garden.
Like the idea or not? Got any other alternative methods?

Like the idea or not?
It's fine with me, I've no problem with it.

SEA: Sara and Heather should be head back into the building sometime in the next two to three posts.

Kahanistan: TG.

Replied.

So Hal and X, what will be Kil's reaction should my one-in-quadrillion-chance plan involving the EOE, human rights and civil liberties, actually succeed?
Urgh, waits for Hal to return...

Xirnium: Another TG.

Is anyone else having trouble getting onto nationstates.net...?

Yes. And anyway, see the preceding message I posted...

Yes.

Well, I'm relieved its not my computor... I wonder what is the problem...? At least the forum is still working.

And anyway, see the preceding message I posted...

If you mean: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10560138&postcount=856

Then yes: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10560375&postcount=858

Hey Xirnium, seems your back online. Main NS wep page is not responding, do not know why, so I assume you did not get the TG I sent concerning your latest post (which is very good).

There is one thing though, I believe that it has been a half an hour rather then a quarther of an hour...

Hmm, yeah there seems to be something wrong with the NS.net.

Half an hour, you say? What about twenty minutes instead?

Hmm, yeah there seems to be something wrong with the NS.net.

At least the forums are still working.

Half an hour, you say? What about twenty minutes instead?

Maybe somewhere between 23 and 24 minutes...slightly under half an hour.

Maybe somewhere between 23 and 24 minutes...slightly under half an hour.
Very well, 23.5 minutes.

Do we have offer and acceptance? (I've obviously been studying too much contract law :D ).

Very well, 23.5 minutes.

Do we have offer and acceptance? (I've obviously been studying to much contract law :D ).

Yes (and yes you have :D ).

What are you studying for uni, Xirnium?

Attention, nationstates.net is back up and running!

What are you studying for uni, Xirnium?
????

????

Xirnium is studying Torts and Contract Law.

????
Sorry, I must not have seen your post at the bottom of the last page. Amestria is right.

Kahanistan: TG

Amestria, TG.

Xirnium: TG

Xirnium: TG

Replied, Amestria.

Xirnium: TGs

Xirnium; McKagan; Amestria: TG's all around.

Kahanistan: TG

Urgh, waits for Hal to return...
Don't count on it. :P (Besides, I thought I TGed you a response to your question.)

Yeah, I guess I'll take this opportunity to explain my absence and why I may not really be coming back any time soon.

As I said to McKagan over IM about a month ago:

McKagan: :O
YOU'RE ALIVE!
You've... been gone... for... a long time.
me: Just been very busy...and I've had a profound religious experience. :P
McKagan: oh god.... did you talk to Jesus? :p
me: Eh, not quite, but I did attend a religious retreat the weekend before last, and while I can't say a lot about what happened there, I can say that my faith is much more important to me now than it was before.
Plus, I just really don't have the time for I.I. any more...and with that, my interest in NationStates is sort of waning.
That sums it up in a few short sentences, I think. To put it another way, I went into a sort of self-imposed exile from N.S. At any rate, due to extremely intense academic pressure and newfound social concerns (including a new..."romantic interest" :p), I literally do not have the time for any sort of participation on I.I. at any level nearing what I was previously doing; perhaps that will change this summer, but it's doubtful I'll come back before then, if ever. I still log into my nation(s) on an occasional basis, but RPing is out of the question for me at least until this hellish school year is over for me, and perhaps beyond.

Hope that clears up where I've been: in self-imposed exile. Maybe I'll come back someday, but...I kind of like being a wanderer. :p

*sings*

Hal's got a girlfriend! :P

You better come back, dammit. Your senior year is coming up. Seniors NEVER do anything. You said it yourself. :P You do all the college stuff as a junior and then sleep all through your senior year.

Driver and Whittier haven't worked together enough for you to leave. We haven't burned enough cities!

*sings*

Hal's got a girlfriend! :P

You better come back, dammit. Your senior year is coming up. Seniors NEVER do anything. You said it yourself. :P You do all the college stuff as a junior and then sleep all through your senior year.

Driver and Whittier haven't worked together enough for you to leave. We haven't burned enough cities!
Perhaps you will get another Guaymas out of me yet, my friend, just perhaps... :p

And I want my Knighthawks....

And I want you to post your reply to the thread so my Foreign Minister can finally attend to more important concerns...

Just in time Xirnium. ATM, I'm putting the cherry on top. ;)

Xirnium, would it be possible to get McKagan onboard with this probe of Amestrian warcrimes you're doing? McKagan is doing a physical search of Torontia and the waters thereof - it would be beneficial for both parties.

Yeah, certainly. Let me just point out that these warcrimes investigations are now being led by a independent, non-governmental human rights watch agency, not the High Ecclesiarchy (which no longer cares about Amestrian atrocities).

Checking in again.

So, now we're up to four months, one week and two days since this debacle began, with no end in sight.

Is there still no-one beefy enough to secure this gig once and for all?

Patience, young grasshopper Bretton. Rebuilding a wartorn nation takes time, doesn't it Xirnium?

Checking in again.

So, now we're up to four months, one week and two days since this debacle began, with no end in sight.

Is there still no-one beefy enough to secure this gig once and for all?

McKagan would have been more agressive long ago if I could actually RP right now in the real thread. It's paused for the convention and that's stopped my advances.

So, now we're up to four months, one week and two days since this debacle began, with no end in sight.
Since you last checked, not even a full day has yet elapsed in the RP, but massive progress has been made. So everything is on track at the moment...

Brilliant. Just after I posted the letter I totally forgot about the Constitutional Convention and my next move. Can we retcon things a little here and there?

Retcon what?

I remembered give Ho's response (a weak retort!) when you posted the interruption. But I'm flexible, I can let you have yours if you want

Post your reply, if you like, and Ms Ertha's interruption will come after.

Working it on. And out of curiousity, what inspirations did you look up to in the creation of Gilda?

Question - is Yallak back yet?

And out of curiousity, what inspirations did you look up to in the creation of Gilda?
I don't think I had any distinct or obvious inspirations in creating the character of Heather Gilda.

Question - is Yallak back yet?
I don't think so (he hasn't replied to this thread, in any case).

I’ve a question of my own, at which point in time do we expect to be able to unpause the de facto paused Torontian threads?

^
I don't know, but I wish we could. I want to see how the TPG reacts to my plans for troop renumbering. :)

And I wonder when Saint Fedski shall return....what did ya'all think of him anyway?

What ever happened to him, anyway?

RL took precedence - some weeks ago he told me in a TG that he had personal quality time with his family to attend to, along with his job at a 24-7 grocery store (which was the main reason he left in the first place, but the personal issues extended the duration), but he eventually shall return.

What did you think of him McKagan?

I've not got any issues with him. He did a great job RP'ing a smaller force against a few million Amestrian/TPG invaders a few times.

A -day- has gone by? GAAAAAAAH!!

Mind-numbing, really...

Oh well, I suppose this Bismarck quote becomes ever more appropriate:

"Those who love sausage and obey the law should never watch either being made."

I don't think I had any distinct or obvious inspirations in creating the character of Heather Gilda.
What do you mean by that? She just came from your imagination, or did you take various, minor things from people you know IRL and stuck it together to create Gilda?

Did you take various, minor things from people you know IRL and stuck it together to create Gilda?
No, I don't believe so.

I'll be on and off some the next week and a half.

No, I don't believe so.
So, Gilda is a totally original character of yours, no sources of inspiration whatsoever?

I don't think so (he hasn't replied to this thread, in any case).

Hey all! When I said I'd be back on tuesday I forgot that this week was my mid semester exams for Uni, but I will make a reply on Friday when i get home. Apologies again to McKagan for having to wait around.

^
No worries. I perfectly understand.

I'm, as I said somewhere else, having issues with posting here too. I'm in High School, as most of you know and may indeed be. I'm on the edge of being an Ivy League student so I have commitments at staying there. While i'm working on that I may also be becoming the next Kurt Cobain - so I have issues all around.

Hey all! When I said I'd be back on tuesday I forgot that this week was my mid semester exams for Uni, but I will make a reply on Friday when i get home.
I can certainly sympathise, I also had my last mid-semester exam today. Fortunately that’s all out of the way now.

In speaking of examinations, I finished mine already then I had my Easter break - a week in Maldives and a week back in Hong Kong to touch up my chores. Ah, life's so much easier when you've cleared up your big exams, even if they're only mock-ups....

I can certainly sympathise, I also had my last mid-semester exam today. Fortunately that’s all out of the way now.

Hope you did well.

I’ve a question of my own, at which point in time do we expect to be able to unpause the de facto paused Torontian threads?

I'm up for unpausing them now. Its been long enough since they stopped.

What about Saint Fedski Yallak? Shouldn't we wait for his return?

I didn't even know he was suppost to be coming back - hasn't he withdrawn from the RP?

Either way I see no reason to delay any longer. The threads were continuing without him earlier so they can resume without him.

Fine with me. I'm getting bored here also.

He left due to RL issues, and will be making an eventual return. Besides, he plays a key part of the story like Halberdgardia (who is also having RL issues ATM), and it's interesting with him in.

He left due to RL issues, and will be making an eventual return. Besides, he plays a key part of the story like Halberdgardia (who is also having RL issues ATM), and it's interesting with him in.
The RP will still be around when either find the time or will to return. I don't think we should wait for them since at the moment they are not playing any major roles in events transpiring in Torontia.

I suggest we wait until the 5th (I understand Amestria, who has been playing a major role in recent events, will be back by then) before unpausing the threads.

Hope you did well.
And the same, of course, to you. Actually, mine went rather well - nothing unexpected on the paper, which is always encouraging.

What happened to Amestria?

Uni, same thing that's going to happen to me on the 15th. :)

Amestria, TG.

What happened to Amestria?

They are called final exams, you will have to deal with them soon enough.

Just what I guessed - RL had him busy away.

*smiles that my own mock GCSEs are over* :D

They are called final exams, you will have to deal with them soon enough.

Yeah, in about 3 weeks.

Xirnium: TG.

Replied.

So Xirnium, I take it that Heather would rather spend an hour having a talk with my Prime Minister rather than my Ambassador?

That depends, is your Prime Minister vaguely less annoying than your Ambassador? :p

The First Prime Minister of Southeast Asia is based off myself, and IRL, I have been described as "charming", "intelligent", "lazy", "tease", "idealistic", "hot-tempered", "over-anxious" and "childish".

Which I will personally admit, is true. I can give good first impressions on people, but I prefer to be a tease and I often don't restrain my temper, and sometimes choose to act childish. But I do believe in a world where everyone can be better off, and I am often over-anxious in getting what I want and often I try too hard to earn favors with people I like and admire. And I've often been described as "intelligent but lazy", mainly because when I want to do my school-work, I score well, not to be a braggart. But I'm often lazy and don't study often.

The Prime Minister I have, is slightly different.

He instead places more emphasis on charisma rather than being a tease (doesn't mean he doesn't know how to be one though), is more hard-working than I am, and much more restraint than I am IRL.

Xirnium, TG.

Amestria, TG.

Amestria, TG.

Responded.

Another TG.

Amestria, responded to TG.

I'm back now. For a few days I got SO fucking bored of this site. I've been intending to come back for a while... but I didn't feel like it. :P I got Journals by Kurt Cobain and decided to read it more than this forum. I'm back now. I'll read and respond as necessary.

Amestria, Xirnium, TG's.

Just a brief notification that I've been fairly swamped with work lately, which explains my lack of posts in the Torontian threads over the past couple of days. I had hoped to maybe post something by today, but it doesn't seem like I could find the time. By Monday, in any case, everything should be back to normal - if I haven't found any time to post until then.

Sorry for any inconvenience, I’ll to the RP as soon as reasonably possible.

Xirnium, telegram.

Xirnium, I know that you are busy, but you can please try and respond to my TGs ASAP?

Replied.

Xirnium: TG(s)

Sorry for not being here for so long. My computer died AGAIN. I had just gotten caught up and now... I have to do it again.

Fuck.

Sorry for not being here for so long. My computer died AGAIN.

It happens.

It just happens to me ALOT.

It just happens to me ALOT.

Misfortune is seldom fairly distributed.

Amestria, TG.

By the way, this tracking isn't being done by the TSU. This is the BH collecting info for both the TSU, the TLA, and themselves. The other two groups don't have a clue about this action however.

By the way, this tracking isn't being done by the TSU. This is the BH collecting info for both the TSU, the TLA, and themselves. The other two groups don't have a clue about this action however.

I thought that would be the case.

This looks like a promising RP.

Ok, after reading your post, just a few things.

The MCID stopped ALL jamming.

I'm also a bit confused as to just what you're doing. Are you going to plant bugs OTHER than the pagers? If so, what do they do?

Ok, after reading your post, just a few things.

The MCID stopped ALL jamming.

I'm also a bit confused as to just what you're doing. Are you going to plant bugs OTHER than the pagers? If so, what do they do?
Actually I meant that they're still monitering any signals near the Meeting that's what I meant by Jamming.

And the message is all a code. In reality, the guy stole the old Transmitters off of the supplies (Terror Drones other Equipment) way back from when the Lone Alliance attacked Seattle. They were buried and paved over basicly when they began rebuilding there. The guy dug down into where the soldiers hid during the Red Tide bombing and stole the electronic transmitters in them. Now he's going to place them all over the city and make them all give off White Noise\Fake messages at seperate locations and times, The Counter Group will have to investigate all of these mysterious Transmissions. Giving the Spies enough cover to plant alternate ways of detecting conversations.
Perhaps even using an insider...


Why don't you get a pager= Why don't you use them to distract the trackers.

All over town= Place the transponders all over town,
I would buy one that has the beeping option myself= set them to make as much noise possible,
you do have cab fare right=put them in cars also.
public Transportation= Put them in Buses also.
go get a pager= Do your mission.

Okay, let me just summarise what is happening. This BH (who are they?) is attempting to eavesdrop on the conference, and McKagan intelligence forces have been conducting anti-electronic warfare operations (the jamming signals) without notifying the Xirniumite authorities.

So now that we know this, is this eavesdropping technology something active (you mentioned making them "noisy", transmitting morse code which would be very easy to triangulate the position of, I imagine) whose source can be tracked? If so, may I locate them?

Have you not played any of the Command and Conquer strategy game series, Xirnium?

In the Tiberian games, the Black Hand is the special operative branch of the Brotherhood of Nod. In The Lone Alliance, it's a private mercenary organization in the Allied States, and the government contracts it every now and then.

Of course, the Black Hand of Nod. Thank you for that.

Okay, let me just summarise what is happening. This BH (who are they?) is attempting to eavesdrop on the conference, and McKagan intelligence forces have been conducting anti-electronic warfare operations (the jamming signals) without notifying the Xirniumite authorities.

So now that we know this, is this eavesdropping technology something active (you mentioned making them "noisy", transmitting morse code which would be very easy to triangulate the position of, I imagine) whose source can be tracked? If so, may I locate them?

McKagan will be able to track just about anything now that they've created a database of all the signals. Also, depending on how Xirnium responds to the letter the MCID sent them, the MCID might have massive manpower from Seattle police on their side for simply getting all the beepers.

Okay, let me just summarise what is happening. This BH (who are they?) is attempting to eavesdrop on the conference, and McKagan intelligence forces have been conducting anti-electronic warfare operations (the jamming signals) without notifying the Xirniumite authorities.

So now that we know this, is this eavesdropping technology something active (you mentioned making them "noisy", transmitting morse code which would be very easy to triangulate the position of, I imagine) whose source can be tracked? If so, may I locate them?

No the 'noisy' transmittion is being set up as a red herring to cover up the real transmissions. Kind of like someone whispering in a crowded building. All the 'fake' signals, (The morse code, the faked messages,white noise) You will find them but all you'll find is a very small radio lying all by itself. And with around 2 dozen of these small Radios. You will be very busy having to send agents out to get Every single one of them just in case one's the real one, And while the MCID and Xirium Authroities search for them, the Black Hand can continue observations. There are more ways to get info besides sound recording.

I see, so there are both real eavesdropping devices (creating subtle signals) and overt transmitters designed to act as distractions.

Fortunately the Xirniumite occupational authority has vast resources, they can walk and chew gum. So where will I found the real microphone transmitters?

There are more ways to get info besides sound recording.

True - but if you move away from that spectrum of attack then the countermeasures you've put up are useless. The MCID is a big organization that can also call up MISA strike teams. Against a small cell operating AGAINST the local authorities, that's not an easy job to pull.

I see, so there are both real eavesdropping devices (creating subtle signals) and overt transmitters designed to act as distractions.

Fortunately the Xirniumite occupational authority has vast resources, they can walk and chew gum. So where will I found the real microphone transmitters?

So are you going to help McKagan in the mission?

So are you going to help McKagan in the mission?
In a way, I'm compiling a reply.

In a way, I'm compiling a reply.

Yay. :)

OOC: Of course the real reason McKagan's panicing over this is because they don't want their plan to start a war with the TNCP to be overheard correct?

Xirnium TG.

Yay. :)

Mckagan, notice Xirnium said "In a way..."

Misfortune is seldom fairly distributed.
Not neccessarily. McKagan, how old is your PC, and how well do you take care of it?

Mckagan, notice Xirnium said "In a way..."
For some reason, the Xirniumites always seem to want to do things, "in a way"... :)

For some reason, the Xirniumites always seem to want to do things, "in a way"... :)

Much to Amestrias endless frustration...

IC or OOC frustration?

IC or OOC frustration?

I use Amestria, not my...

Not neccessarily. McKagan, how old is your PC, and how well do you take care of it?
Mine's a 98 that is 8 years old. And occasionally Freezes up. But it works better than the XP in the other room. Weird isn't it?

Not neccessarily. McKagan, how old is your PC, and how well do you take care of it?

Three and a half years old - running XP. I take good care of it, too. It just happens to die. Stupid fucking Dell...

OOC: Of course the real reason McKagan's panicing over this is because they don't want their plan to start a war with the TNCP to be overheard correct?

Xirnium TG.

That's not the only reason. McKagan Intelligence Forces (ESPECIALLY the MISA) are VERY paranoid of outside forces. They're also egomanical.

OOC: Of course the real reason McKagan's panicing over this is because they don't want their plan to start a war with the TNCP to be overheard correct?

That's not the only reason.

Its not a plan, its more one small factions "what we would like to do is..."

McKagan Intelligence Forces (ESPECIALLY the MISA) are VERY paranoid of outside forces. They're also egomanical.

Not to meantion the Mckagan Intelligence Agencies are HUGE and have a lot of bored agents who need to earn their pay checks/justify their budgets.

This whole Convention could be about cake recipes and there would still be Mckagan Intelligence Agents everywhere.

Its not a plan, its more one small factions "what we would like to do is..."

Exactly. There are also just as many senators who would like to pull out of Torontia.

The McKagan Senate is a very robust organization.


Not to meantion the Mckagan Intelligence Agencies are HUGE and have a lot of bored agents who need to earn their pay checks/justify their budgets.

This whole Convention could be about cake recipes and there would still be Mckagan Intelligence Agents everywhere.

Again - exactly. The MCID has satellites EVERYWHERE. That's not the biggest intelligence asset I have though.

The MISA is like a blend of the USSOCOM, FBI, CIA, and Secret Service. It has its own strike teams AND intelligence personnel. Putting everything under one roof makes the chain of command much easier.

They aren't using pagers, it's just a piece of exposed electronic componets with an exposed wire used as an Antenna. But it's about the size of a page in all. (Think a small motherboard the size of a pager instead of an actual pager.)

They aren't using pagers, it's just a piece of exposed electronic componets with an exposed wire used as an Antenna. But it's about the size of a page in all. (Think a small motherboard the size of a pager instead of an actual pager.)

I get it now.

Mckagan, just in case you have not noticed, Xirnium posted on the Streets of Seattle thread...

And I responded about 3 hours ago.

Amestria, TG.

And I responded about 3 hours ago.

You did...(slaps forehead).

Amestria, TG.

Responded.

Permission is [granded] for the XSIS to deploy operatives to cooperate with all MISA Administrators. Administrators are guarded with using their staff to coordinate operations of MISA personnel and strike teams. Since it is unpractical and impossible to deploy personnel with actual strike teams, this is effectively the best we can do.

Spelling Correction: Should be granted

That's one of my usual typos. Thanks.

Just for the record, ICly my nation has not confirmed whether or not the TPG and AOA actually commited those human rights artrocities. They're only neutral. But they do have a great suspicision that they did: after all, if it were untrue from the very beginning, would these allegations have even come out in the first place?

And as for computers, my Windows XP computer is running fine, and I take care of it just nicely. I gave my slightly older one away to my little bro because my mom wanted to save money, and mine is still going fine, only problem is, I have a poor wireless connection. :headbang:

They guy placing all the Decoys (Have to make up a name) is a Sleeper Cell, he's been in Torontia since the Nortan regime, he's also insane, that's why he was sent to such a backwater nation. He was a libiality to the Black Hand.
Pratical Joker, not very evil acting. But this makes him an unpredictable opponent.

The Message was, "Comin don't you guys have better things to do? I'm not hurting nuthin!" (Yes exactly how it's spelled.)

And the BH will now go from transmitted Bugs to a recording device that can manually be picked up by hand. Their contact inside is one of the food preparers, He's a Native Torontian, who's part of the Sleeper cell also with no prior connection with the TSU or the Brotherhood.

TLA, I see that you have a request for a McKagan envoy to come talk to the TSU? I can do that right now if you wish, but I think we should put it in a new thread - agreed?

It's your choice. It's no problem with me, just send a link. (

I'll make the thread.... tommorow probably... I've got to read some stuff now.

Here is the current state of Torontias Southeastern neighbor Idaho, a fifth world hell hole.

The Independent State of Idaho: An Overview

Conditions: The worst kind of Anarchy (Mad Max/Liberian Anarchy). No GDP, no growth, no economy, no government, no law, rampant disease, chronic violence, and it has been that way for 20 years. Money is worthless for everyday transactions and a barter system is in place (although money is still valued by the various warlords/criminal organizations).

Recent History: The New Order Regime of Vader Tanakis kept the Warlords well bribed, supplied, and happy while refraining from interfering with the crime syndicates that used Idaho as a funnel for drugs and other non-threatening (from Tanakis’s point of view) contraband. This kept things relatively peaceful. After Tanakis’s fall the bribes and supplies stopped. Shortly after the fall of the New Order a force of 20,000 Amestrian soldiers (with air supremacy) searched Idaho for Tanakis, killing many warlords, and even further disrupting the local balance of power. After Amestria withdrew its forces (to focus on Western Torontia) Idaho fell back in on itself and an inevitable wave of killing began as differing factions rushed to fill the power vacuum. The income from Tanakis was gone but the lack of order in Eastern Torontia gave many an opportunity to profit from more extensive illegal activity (for a while there were not even any border guards).

Idaho briefly became the hideout for the Torontian Republican Army. Vader Tanakis poured money in but then went silent as the TRA failed to make any progress. Independent Montana then moved in and declared an occupation, but nothing more happened after they deployed a few troops. Idahoans quickly returned to killing each other at the behest of petty tyrants.

Present Situation: With Xirnium having placed Torontian and Xirniumite Military forces on the Torontian-Idaho border it has become far more difficult for the illegal factions to funnel contraband into Southeast Torontia (their main source of income besides pillaging). Resources have thus grown even scarcer and violent competition between the various criminal factions has become even more chronic. The number of warlords has fallen as all scramble to get as large a share as possible of a shrinking pie.

Geopolitical Significance: Idaho has nothing of value what-so-ever except its strategic location bordering Torontia along the southeast. Without the necessary safeguards violence from Idaho could spill over into Southeast Torontia and destabilize it. Presently used as a means of smuggling drugs in.


Factions

Independent Montana: Claims to be the governing authority in Idaho, however it only occupies several of the larger population centers and its military forces are insignificant, unable to project power. The occupation forces mainly stay close to their bases and occupied population centers, seldom venturing out, even to conduct patrols. Only Leafanistan has recognized Independent Montana’s occupation as legitimate (and that was before the Civil War, the opinion of the present government remains unknown). Regarded by many as irrelevant outside its areas of control… It has done nothing since its forces deployed.

The Warlords: Significant Idahoan “leaders” (i.e. the most organized armed thugs). Tend to control population centers, compounds, strategic areas. Make their livings by extorting the people who live within their reach and smuggling contraband/drugs. Military forces tend to be non-professional drugged up killers (child soldiers are common). There are few pitched battles in Idaho as even semi-capable soldiers are too rare and ammunition too precious, so the warlords mainly fight each other by raids and the slaughtering of defenseless civilians with machetes.

Notable Warlord: Self declared President for Life of Idaho Bob Tiste. Presently the most powerful warlord, known for hacking off the limps of those believed to oppose him (or who were at the wrong place at the wrong time) his 15 year career has been described as “a relentless campaign of senseless wanton violence.”


The Crime Syndicates: Drug smugglers/makers, weapons smugglers, extortionists… Various violent individuals who use Idaho as a hideout/funnel for their various legal activities and as a means of sneaking into Torontia… Idaho also serves as a hideout for all internationally wanted criminals who do not mind a far lower standard of living and the possibility of dieing from leprosy.

Notable Crime Syndicate: The Leafanistan Mafia, which may or may not have a presence in Idaho. If it does that could be a significant destabilizing factor.


Escaped New Order Elements: Mostly from the now defunct Torontian Republican Army. Presently in hiding and seeking either to escape, reorganize in hopes of one day regaining power in Torontia, or regroup and take over Idaho. Since they lost contact with Tanakis they have been relatively leaderless. They might manage to pull themselves together and once again threaten Torontia’s stability, but it is more likely Idaho will shallow them up.

The Survivalists: Bands of bandits/militias who are independent of any warlord/crime syndicate and generally spend their time preying on those who are weaker. Some are stationary while others have no set base. Many serve as mercenaries for whatever warlord or crime lord pays them the most.

Notable Survivalist: Self declared General William Bethlehem, a former copy machine salesman who after the collapse of civilization in Idaho turned to raping, looting, and pillaging. Very successful at his new career, he has been described as “quite mad.”

Extremely interesting, so basically we have Somalia in the nineties on a very bad day.

I think this would be a very good topic for a future spin-off Torontian RP.

I've been thinking of dropping a McKagan Paratrooper Division into Idaho for some time now in order to establish a more secure border with Torontia.

I've been thinking of dropping a McKagan Paratrooper Division into Idaho for some time now in order to establish a more secure border with Torontia.

You mean shoot up the place and get valuable black operations experience for some new people with little investment and little worry of international censure...

Not really as covert as we talked about. I mean drop in, stop the violence, hold mass trials, and then build a McKagan-influenced sister-state to Torontia.

Not really as covert as we talked about. I mean drop in, stop the violence, hold mass trials, and then build a McKagan-influenced sister-state to Torontia.

The first one would be easy, but to stop 20 years of chronic violence over night... Then you have to do something about I.M.'s forces, who claim they are the government...

But that opens up another question, who will RP the warlords/criminals est.?

A few warlords against 400,000 of some of the most advanced soldiers in the world with amazing a far reaching air/guided missile support?

...

Yeah, i'm so totally screwed on THAT one. :rolleyes:

;)

I'm not planning on doing it right NOW anyway.

What's up with me using emoticons so much now?

A few warlords against 400,000 of some of the most advanced soldiers in the world with amazing a far reaching air/guided missile support?

By McKagan Paratrooper Division I was thought you meant a small force... With 400,000 troops and Mckagan air support you will effortlessly wipe out those gun wielding peasants.

What's up with me using emoticons so much now?

It is quite clear that you are slowly going insane.

By McKagan Paratrooper Division I was thought you meant a small force... With 400,000 troops and Mckagan air support you will effortlessly wipe out those gun wielding peasants.

That's sort of my thought. That's slightly more than a division.

Regardless - This isn't something i'll probably be doing.

It is quite clear that you are slowly going insane.

I LIKE CHICKEN!

Regardless - This isn't something i'll probably be doing.

It remains a possibility for the future, in the meantime you have the senior Red Tide Government to play around with.

I LIKE CHICKEN!

Thats nice, TG.

Actually knowing IM, I'm sure he'll have no problem with McKagan.

You mean shoot up the place and get valuable black operations experience for some new people with little investment and little worry of international censure...
Sounds like a plan. Now, to come up with a pretext... hmm, how does "punitive frontier pacification operation" sound?

Sounds like a plan. Now, to come up with a pretext... hmm, how does "punitive frontier pacification operation" sound?

Nice and legitimate.

BTW: Did you get that TG I sent you?