NationStates Jolt Archive

Here is the OOC thread for the Battle for Control of Torontia thread (and the third OOC thread of this RP for those keeping count).

So, am I going to be in this one?

Urgh. Makes me wonder why the player behind the ex-Saharistan got involved with the Kraven conflict at all...

Urgh. Makes me wonder why the player behind the ex-Saharistan got involved with the Kraven conflict at all...

Kraven IC promised Tanakis the world and said it would be an easy battle and Tanakis did not do his homework before he jumped in...

So, am I going to be in this one?

I do not see why not...

(tag)

Lone alliance, the pullout took nine days, I am sure Bovern would know unless he was in hole somewhere...

Lone alliance, the pullout took nine days, I am sure Bovern would know unless he was in hole somewhere...
He's been in the middle of the Yukon without Communications. So yeah he's in a hole somewhere. He doesn't use Satelite phones.

Kraven IC promised Tanakis the world and said it would be an easy battle and Tanakis did not do his homework before he jumped in...
I know that. But why didn't Saharistan use his common sense? Then we wouldn't be in this bloody mess.

This is never going to end! Torontia is going to be a virtual NationStates Hundred Years War. -_-*

I know that. But why didn't Saharistan use his common sense? Then we wouldn't be in this bloody mess.
From what I can se he never has use Common Sense. He likes making nations for the sole reason to stir up trouble.
Saharistan, Global Jihad, Torontia, Arabastian <(I think), and Kravania.

He uses his nations to Troll. He's a Troll, that basicly explains everything.

Wrong spelling The Lone Alliance, it's Arabanistan, not Arabastian! And I guess you're pretty much right man. The mods might as well perma IP ban him, as he is never going to be able to beat anyone for that matter.

You forgot Algeristan.

Don't be so harsh, players like Torontia makes things interesting...

In a world of Kravens and AMF's, it is nice to wage war with (or over) a tin pot dictatorship led by a two bit maniac...

You know, in RL it is rumored that Saddam was High when he ordered the invasion of Kuwait...

In RL the Dictator of Turkmenistan (officially the President for Life) ordered all libraries in the countryside closed as it would "be wasted on the peasants" (I am paraphrasing what he said). He also has written to books (or claimed to have written them) and detailed knowledge of those books is necessary to get something as simple as a driver’s license.

Then there is the Kim family of North Korea...

I find the Torontian player’s dictator characters to be most like their real life counterparts in policy and competence (just a little more over the top do to the NS world factor).

If you're referring to Niyazov ("Turkmenbashi") it's Turkmenistan, not Turkestan, and for some reason they get a lot of support from the US. The guy next door in Uzbekistan boils people to death (!) and the international community lifted nary a finger.

Didn't know that about Saddam being high, I was pretty sure he planned it for weeks if not months. Weren't the Kuwaitis slant-drilling into Iraqi wells? That's what I heard, but I get a lot of my information from Wikipedia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page)

Wikipedia means well, but the trouble with it is that while they let anyone possess the ability to edit it for intelluctual courteousy, it can be abused, so that's why Wikipedia was not too long ago caught up in a scandal and a controversy. Saharistan is ok at rp'ing, but he's never going to be able to beat anyone as he never uses diplomacy and alienates too many nations that may support him.

The guy next door in Uzbekistan boils people to death (!) and the international community lifted nary a finger.

The U.S. in fact built a military base in his nation and paid him rent...that is until he kicked the U.S. out for trying to investigate/decrying that massacre that occurred... Here’s an interesting cartoon dealing with dictatorships and the U.S's attempts at "reforming" them...

http://www.markfiore.com/animation/lite.html


Didn't know that about Saddam being high, I was pretty sure he planned it for weeks if not months.

Its a rumor, the invasion of Kuwait happened when Saddam picked up the phone and called the Republican Guard. Saddam also had something against bananas and persecuted those who sold them...

Weren't the Kuwaitis slant-drilling into Iraqi wells?[/URL]
Something like this was indeed alleged, Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz complained to the Arab League that Kuwait was directly robbing Iraq by 'setting up oil installations in the southern section of the Iraqi al-Rumaila oil fields and extracting oil from it.'

Its a rumor, the invasion of Kuwait happened when Saddam picked up the phone and called the Republican Guard.
I've never heard of Saddam Hussein being high at the time, but it isn’t like the invasion of Kuwait just happened overnight without warning. From Aziz's demands made in the Arab League (16 July) and Saddam's ultimatum speech the next day to the invasion (2 August) is some time.

Basically the war came about because Iraq demanded the raising of oil prices to $25 a barrel, the cessation of Kuwaiti 'theft' of Iraqi oil, a complete moratorium on Iraq's wartime loans and the formation of a type of Arab "Marshal Plan". When these demands were refuted by the Kuwaiti government (which considered them negotiable and not an ultimatum) as infringing on their sovereignty Saddam determined to go to war.

Anyway, it's all interesting. This all comes from the Osprey Publishing book "The Iran-Iraq War 1980-88".

Back to Torontia..

Amestria can you give me locations of major TPG buildings that I would have gathered by sat intelligence? Where is the government located, how does it maintain control of its state and military, etc.

The TPG has four primary administrative centers.

1. Port Angeles, capital of the Western Torontian Government (although it has decentralized of late) and regional center of the OP.

2. Vancouver (South), regional center and regional military HQ.

3. Raymond, Central Military HQ.

4. Vanderhoof, administrative and TPG Military HQ for BC.

Note: All these Government headquarters have bunkers from which government can continue even in the event of attack or bombardment (excluding bunker busters).

Whoa whoa whoa Amestria, where do you get off completeing 9 days in one post? I have posted many times that as soon as any withdrawl began to happen, my characters would make a grab for land. I also posted an attack prior to your leaving and how did you suddenly get enough transports and aircraft to transport all your troops and equipment home?

Theb fact that this was agreed tto I think gives it away, give it a rest before this gets finished storywise.

Whoa whoa whoa Amestria, where do you get off completeing 9 days in one post? I have posted many times that as soon as any withdrawl began to happen, my characters would make a grab for land. I also posted an attack prior to your leaving and how did you suddenly get enough transports and aircraft to transport all your troops and equipment home?

Your posts violated our agreement and were thus ignored. You are free to repost them now that Amestria has withdrawn and there is a New Thread. Your attacks happen nine days later, after Amestria leaves. Mckagan RPs the TPG...

The TPG has four primary administrative centers.

1. Port Angeles, capital of the Western Torontian Government (although it has decentralized of late) and regional center of the OP.

2. Vancouver (South), regional center and regional military HQ.

3. Raymond, Central Military HQ.

4. Vanderhoof, administrative and TPG Military HQ for BC.

Excellent, thanks a lot Amestria.

Note: All these Government headquarters have bunkers from which government can continue even in the event of attack or bombardment
Hehe, I should hope so. ;)

Theb fact that this was agreed tto I think gives it away, give it a rest before this gets finished storywise.
I didn't agree to anything. I constantly said that any Amestian vehicles approaching Torontia would be attacked and that as soon as there was even a sign of a withdrawl, ICly of course, an attack would happen. But my characters decided that with the breakdown of the peace conference, and some secret talk with some other powers that they would just withdraw. Unfortunately, there was some miscommunication and the attack that had been planned since Amestria attacked, begun instead.

I didn't agree to anything. I constantly said that any Amestian vehicles approaching Torontia would be attacked and that as soon as there was even a sign of a withdrawl, ICly of course, an attack would happen. But my characters decided that with the breakdown of the peace conference, and some secret talk with some other powers that they would just withdraw. Unfortunately, there was some miscommunication and the attack that had been planned since Amestria attacked, begun instead.

NO! Xirnium, talk to SF...

There were no attacks and Amestria is no longer in Torontia!

Amestria just wants to leave this RP, why not let him? You can have your blood, simply attack the TPG instead.

I see quite a tinderbox in the offing again I might add, just wondering is this still closed or open to a few more people?

I see quite a tinderbox in the offing again I might add, just wondering is this still closed or open to a few more people?
It's open now. Sort of.

It's still semi-closed, invite only AFAIK.

Still closed.

ICly my characters want Amestrian blood. They hate Amestria. If they don't get it in Torontia, it'll be taken from the Amestrian homeland and colonies.

This stands:

I didn't agree to anything. I constantly said that any Amestian vehicles approaching Torontia would be attacked and that as soon as there was even a sign of a withdrawl, ICly of course, an attack would happen. But my characters decided that with the breakdown of the peace conference, and some secret talk with some other powers that they would just withdraw. Unfortunately, there was some miscommunication and the attack that had been planned since Amestria attacked, begun instead.

If SF continues along like this is quite clear he is only interested in giving me a hard time, not in a rich RP (which the New Thread and Amestrian Pullout save from being closed, the RP is now on its third capter).

ICly my characters want Amestrian blood. They hate Amestria. If they don't get it in Torontia, it'll be taken from the Amestrian homeland and colonies.

This stands:

I didn't agree to anything. I constantly said that any Amestian vehicles approaching Torontia would be attacked and that as soon as there was even a sign of a withdrawl, ICly of course, an attack would happen. But my characters decided that with the breakdown of the peace conference, and some secret talk with some other powers that they would just withdraw. Unfortunately, there was some miscommunication and the attack that had been planned since Amestria attacked, begun instead.

NO! I am not going to argue with you anymore, just NO!

You try anything it will be ignored, PERIOD!

It was agreed that I would leave Torontia unhindered and would not be attacked while doing so!

It's quite clear that it makes no sense that you can RP 9 complete days without an SF activity, especially after I posted many times that the IC characters would attack as soon as there were any signs of a withdrawl. It's also quite clear that I do not let OOC bs from you influence what happens in the game, unless it is regarding details of an action.

I'm not in the mood to go through this bullshit again. Amestria is out of the RP, there's nothing to attack. ICly they abandoned Torontia to its fate, something that the High Ecclesiarchy largely takes credit for (they started the whole mess for Amestria).

Only Amestria's weak puppet state is left in this RP, so attack that instead.

It was agreed that I would leave Torontia unhindered and would not be attacked while doing so!
Find the post where it shows me agreeing to that, while you're at go find all the posts that said any Amestrian vehicles travelling to Torontia would be attacked and that as soon as withdrawl began, an attack would happen.

First you said that the attacks would not be ignored if SF posted it onto the new IC thread. Now you change your mind, and I can enjoy another one hundred and fifty-four pages of arguing.

First you said that the attacks would not be ignored if SF posted it onto the new IC thread. Now you change your mind, and I can enjoy another one hundred and fifty-four pages of arguing.

The attacks on the TPG after the Amestrian withdrawal will not be ignored (the TPG being RPed by Mckagan)

We are not going through this OOC crap again.

Amestria is gone.

The TPG is all that is left (though maybe not for long).

Case closed.

SF you have two choices:

1) Accept Amestria withdrawal and continue what promises to be a rich RP.

2) Refuse to accept it and ruin the RP!

How can you possibly do nine days of withdrawl while there is a hostile neighbour on both the east and west, that is threatening to attack anything that comes near the country and anything within the country.

Amestria, I am not opposed to you leaving, actually, I'm quite in favour of you leaving. Infact, I want you to leave. But I will not let you leave unless it is done properly, which it hasn't been.

Amestria, I am not opposed to you leaving, actually, I'm quite in favour of you leaving. Infact, I want you to leave. But I will not let you leave unless it is done properly, which it hasn't been.

Everyone else thinks it has. I have had enough of your vendetta against me. Accept this and move on!

Fine, SF, if you want it that way... then we can RP that you never went into Torontia! We can RP that you never even existed! How about that? You get NO ROLE in any future RPs involving Torontia! You like that? Because thats the alternative to NOT BEING A LIER AND FOLLOWING THE AGREEMENT!

Well Saint Fedski, they just want to run away and let McKagan and the rest of the Saharistan War Coalition take the claims of land they used to have. What happens to it doesn't matter, as long as they forget about Torontia and focus on problems close to home.

President Boon must be upset that he is going to go down as one of the worst Presidents with the worst legacies in Amestrian history.

Quite SImple Amestria no longer needs to post in IC, SF can't claim Amestria's Losses because everything happened to quickly for SF to get a decent attack force together, an attack force was assembled but it couldn't catch up to the Amestrians, the SF force runs into an Admiral Kukonois force gets destryoed and you 2 can go to staring each other down and accuse the other of whatever you like, the sunken attack force being the real reason, however other perceived reasons would exist.

How can you possibly do nine days of withdrawl while there is a hostile neighbour on both the east and west, that is threatening to attack anything that comes near the country and anything within the country.

You don't see Kahanistan doing nine days in one small post while hes fighting with AMF or Kraven. Do you?

How can you possibly do nine days of withdrawl while there is a hostile neighbour on both the east and west, that is threatening to attack anything that comes near the country and anything within the country.

You don't see Kahanistan doing nine days in one small post while hes fighting with AMF or Kraven. Do you?

I hear a broken record!

Fine, SF, if you want it that way... then we can RP that you never went into Torontia! We can RP that you never even existed! How about that? You get NO ROLE in any future RPs involving Torontia! You like that? Because thats the alternative to NOT BEING A LIER AND FOLLOWING THE AGREEMENT!
Find my post regarding agreeing to what Amestria claims I agreed to. And it's spelled liar, not lier.

I hear a broken record!
Yes you do. Now answer that question. You can't because it is illogical, unreasonable and impossible.

This OOC bullshit stops now.

Amestria has left and no amount of complaining will make him return to the RP. Arguing otherwise will only lead to deadlock.

Amestria, I suggest you stick to Amestria having abandoned Torontia and SF's attack comes after. That is what happened according to me, and that is what I suggest others should consider happened.

The only thing in Western Torontia is the TPG.

By the way, TG Novacom.

Oh it's quite possible, infact in a section of my history (I will be posting it up later) Novacom has done exactly that, Admiral Kukonois' Valjsguard Campaign, I see no reason for Amestria to not be able to do otherwise.

He did however use Fluid Time, something which I myself am having to make extensive use of lately due to characters that I had earmarked for certain things being tied up in Dead RP's.

And Replied Xirnium.

Sea, Tg

I am beginning to think that Torontia is just ticked because everybody is against him... he is procrastinating.

Saint Fedski, Shut up, Xirnium you know once a single soldier lands on Torontia they'll be in trouble, right?

Xirnium you know once a single soldier lands on Torontia they'll be in trouble, right?
The thought had crossed the High Ecclesiarchy's mind. Holy Xirnium knows the risks, but we are taking over Saint Fedski-controlled Torontia.

Lone Alliance, beat it man. Your role in this RP is and has been completely minimal. To say its minor is to exaggerate greatly. You have not contributed much if anything to the actual storyline. I on the other hand, have been one of the major components of the storyline. Following simple logic, it would make much more sense for me to have a lot more say than you. So you do not have any right to tell me to shut up in this RP, when you have contributed very little to the main story.

"You ruined it for us so we will ruin your nation."

Please everyone, tell him to leave me alone and drop his OOC vendetta against me.

SF, TLA has been a long-time enemy of Torontia, and the SWC is after Torontia because the player controlling the nation is also the guy behind the former Saharistan and because Tanakis threatened them. Not to mention that his characters have plans for both you and Amestria....

EDIT: Xirnium, telegram!

Please everyone, tell him to leave me alone and drop his OOC vendetta against me.
Now that is just harsh man. I can play that game too.

Once I finish my character RPs I am nuking McFarland
Hmm. Looks as though I can cut and mix TG's too.

Why don't you both drop your Vendeta, you both don't need to be at each other's Throats.

Now that is just harsh man. I can play that game too.


Hmm. Looks as though I can cut and mix TG's too.

You sent me that TG! But no more argueing, just leave me alone!

Kraven IC promised Tanakis the world and said it would be an easy battle and Tanakis did not do his homework before he jumped in...

Father did not promise him the world, but rather substantial land gains, we then said we could aid him in removing the unwanted element from Torontia, but he left.

He helped the attack on Xirnium without knowing what was going on, because I never got a chance to tell him OOC what was happening, he approached me, I told him the benefits, I logged off and went to work. Torontia attacked, got beaten down, then went away.

Then When I offered the Help of the Consortium of returning the Country to him, I never got a chance to put it into action for various reasons.

that might be an interesting twist, I assume however the Original Torontia played is gone?

Novacom, what's your IC and OOC opinion of the Saharistan War Coalition and her member-states?

I simply don't know enough about them to be able to form an opinion of them ICly or OOCly.

Then your national leaders have not read the independent international account on the Saharistan War, OOCly written by the Founder and Executive of the Saharistan War Coalition, Halberdgardia! (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Saharistan_War) Torontia is yet another Saharistan puppet, and so is Kravania. He has been trying to beat the SWC over and over, but he is never going to because he is a hopeless diplomat, poor strategist and poor technological military levels and lack of numerical supremacy to the SWC. That's why I personally believe that the mods might as well perma IP ban him as he is never going to overcome the SWC or anyone else for that matter.

Lone Alliance, beat it man. Your role in this RP is and has been completely minimal. To say its minor is to exaggerate greatly. You have not contributed much if anything to the actual storyline. I on the other hand, have been one of the major components of the storyline. Following simple logic, it would make much more sense for me to have a lot more say than you. So you do not have any right to tell me to shut up in this RP, when you have contributed very little to the main story.

Actually I've played every single Faction against the other,

And soon I'm going to start attacking your nation. Yes your home nation. Its funny how you whined on how you wanted your attack, but now that Amestria's gone you chicken out, well you won't get away that easily. Prepare for a whole lot of trouble.

Go for it. It'll be a good match.

The Lone Alliance vs The Commonwealth and her allies.

Go for it. It'll be a good match.

The Lone Alliance vs The Commonwealth and her allies.

Oh I won't be alone. (Crap wrong account, but if you can't connect it to the TLA, well, by the way is the TPG and the TIG still seperate?)

Go for it. It'll be a good match.

The Lone Alliance vs The Commonwealth and her allies.

Oh I won't be alone. (Crap wrong account, but if you can't connect it to the TLA, well, by the way is the TPG and the TIG still seperate?)

So the Black Hand of Nod is just a puppet of TLA?

No I share this damn computer with someone else and they logged in when I walked away. Argh.

See, I can believe that because I was in the same situation. But according to Amestria and McKagan, that means Nod is your puppet.

See, I can believe that because I was in the same situation. But according to Amestria and McKagan, that means Nod is your puppet.
Not if someone else ACTIVELY rps it.

Not like yours who just have you RP for them. Big difference there.

If there were constant posts by the rest of the Commonwealth people then there was nothing wrong.

Everyone needs a first time to post.

Let's get down to business then. Let's talk war if you so desire.

Oh jesus christ not this again. Seriously lets just let Amestria move on and out of Torontia and let all the other players do their own thing. SF if you want revenge take out the withdrawn troops at sea. Its that simple.

Ok, round two. This looks like it is going to heat up real soon and it can truly come out as a good RP. For general notes, I have no clue what side I am going to throw my weight behind. I am caught in alot of places, and I have no way to escape this politically unscathed.

I am going to do a deployment post of a decent naval force to waters near Torontia. I will blatantly be flying the Killian flag, and anyone who fires on me unprovoked will have war declared on them. That is not a threat, I am just saying I do not "talk the talk" without "walking the walk".

What do you mean HaK? TLA is going to attack me one of these days. Amestria is out of the picture, for now. I will let things cool off for a bit before attacking mainland Amestria.

The Corporation has interests in Torontia has done since Torontia was in its Inception, We will probably be sending in one of our Slave Nations to do our dirty work.

And before anyone asks or starts to throw around accusations, These are not my Puppets, They are actual people who have Approached me about becoming a Slave Nation. The Only nation that is my Puppet is Concremo, That is however dealing with the AMF invasion.

If anyone has any problems with me getting involved with the second part, just say so.

However St Fedski still has a "Debt" to pay... for the loss of Certain assets.

However St Fedski still has a "Debt" to pay... for the loss of Certain assets.
I blame your useless whatchamacallits. They should've been waterproof :p

I blame your useless whatchamacallits. They should've been waterproof :p

LOL... True, I blame the Diplomatic problems between St Fedski and Amestria that caused them to open fire on the Convoy... :P

I blame that bloody crooked general that allowed it to happen.

SF you have a TG

Now you have one too!

Ok, I'm confused.

While i'm resupporting Western Torontia, is SF pulling troops out or what?

If he is, kudos for not starting another war. If he's not... well... yeah.

Amestria is out of the picture, for now. I will let things cool off for a bit before attacking mainland Amestria.

No, you will not be attacking mainland Amestria, because you do not have an IC reason to and are doing so only out of OOC spite! I do not want to RP anymore with you in the near future, so leave me alone!

If you want to have a war RP so badly, then I suggest you RP with the Lone Alliance (who actually wants to RP with you).

Ok, I'm confused.

While i'm resupporting Western Torontia, is SF pulling troops out or what?

If he is, kudos for not starting another war. If he's not... well... yeah.

Seems the dynamics have totally changed. Xirnium now occupies Eastern Torontia and you Western.

Guys, (to SF, Amestrian, Lone Alliance) if you want to invade each other can you please take it elsewhere, this OOC thread gets cluttered as it is.

Guys, (to SF, Amestrian, Lone Alliance) if you want to invade each other can you please take it elsewhere, this OOC thread gets cluttered as it is.

I do not want to invade anyone.

Xirnium, are you planning to invade eastern Torontia? I am just curious, and if you are worried that certain people may use OOC knowledge for IC knowledge, you don't have to answer.

By the way guys, my post that I finished early is complete, and if you want to see the exact size of a Killian carrier battle group its in my sig, under military factbook.

It's not really an invasion, Saint Fedski has handed over control to me willingly.

Wait... so.... we're... Torontia is free now?

I'm going to dismantle the old Amestrian-formed government, anyway, systematically.

Torontia is free now?
Free from insanity at least. The High Ecclesiarchy is going to propose a new diplomatic meeting in order to drastically reduce troop numbers in Torontia and move towards a unified Torontian government, occupations aren't exactly cheap.

Oh, and they'll be glad to know that the Amestrian puppet government is being dismantled.

Wait... so.... we're... Torontia is free now?

I'm going to dismantle the old Amestrian-formed government, anyway, systematically.

That would be tough... President Burns would refuse to go and he has the Military... One would have to move against him slowly...

Vice President Mitsune Konno however would be more willing to negotiate...

The Torontian National Congress Party, no matter what happens to the TPG, shall remain a force in Torontian domestic politics and would have some place in a unified government.

That would be tough... President Burns would refuse to go and he has the Military... One would have to move against him slowly...

Vice President Mitsune Konno however would be more willing to negotiate...

The Torontian National Congress Party, no matter what happens to the TPG, shall remain a force in Torontian domestic politics.

The military is going to be separated into small groups (Maybe X will let us move parts of the old TPG into his claim?) Burns will eventually be voted out, and then the government will go through reforms.

X, should we start a diplomacy thread to try and work everything out? Right now i've only got 30,000 troops there anyway, but i'm planning on landing 500,000. Anything is negotiable though. I'm planning on taking down all the walls Amestria put up and allowing a new economy to flourish.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by moving parts of the old TPG into Xirniumite Torontia. The High Ecclesiarchy is extremely hostile to Amestria's puppet government (and wants it dissolved) and any move by it into East Torontia would be responded to with force.

X, should we start a diplomacy thread to try and work everything out?
Maybe not just yet, since many people in the RP (like Yallak) still haven't had a chance to respond to all that has happened so quickly. Certainly soon though.

I'm planning on taking down all the walls Amestria put up and allowing a new economy to flourish.
This is a good idea, I hope to be able to demilitarise the border. The fortifications along it should never have been constructed in the first place.

What i mean is to move the old TORONTIAN MILITARY into parts of X's territory. That way if something happened to their "leader," they wouldn't be able to fight. We could even sign them over to Xirnium's control.

FYI to all participants: as an SWC ally of McKagan, I requested the city of Bremerton as my own via TG. He accepted, so I'll posting a small fleet moving in and landing about 5,000 troops in the city, which will probably be reduced to 2,500-3,000 after intial security and reconstruction duties are taken care of. A small contingent of tanks and aircraft will be based out of Bremerton, as well, and this will likely become a major port for my various task forces. I'll probably post the claiming of Bremerton sometime tomorrow.

isn't it considered bad taste to post up private telegrams?

And so has Xirnium, quoted from a telegram he sent me:

I have already stated many times that I pulled out of the Torontian RP because of OOC difficulties with SF and that I do not want to RP with him again for the foreseeable future. I am not going to RP any war with him because of those difficulties.

I know that. I posted that so that everyone would OOCly know the High Ecclessiarchy's plot, but ICly they would not.

Thankyou for that, Southeast Asia, but in the future could you please not publicly air the High Ecclesiarchy's private musings (and my TGs). Their agenda is intentionally supposed to be ambigious, so that no one ever truly knows what they are planning. I like to release the inner workings of my High Ecclesiarchy bit by bit in IC posts, not in bland OOC expositons.

I would rather that people try to make up their own minds what the High Ecclesiarchy is thinking, or discover what they were after the fact.

BTW does anyone have a map of Torontia with it divided up into east and west, or at the very least an ordinary map of the place?

I have already stated many times that I pulled out of the Torontian RP because of OOC difficulties with SF and that I do not want to RP with him again for the foreseeable future. I am not going to RP any war with him because of those difficulties.
Those may be your OOC reasons, but you also have IC reasons and those are explained in your first post.

Really, it's the IC reasons that matter to the story.

I offered the Help of the Consortium of returning the Country to him, I never got a chance to put it into action for various reasons.
And the various reasons are (no, not the prominent factors which most people know about already)...

FYI to all participants: as an SWC ally of McKagan, I requested the city of Bremerton as my own via TG. He accepted, so I'll posting a small fleet moving in and landing about 5,000 troops in the city, which will probably be reduced to 2,500-3,000 after intial security and reconstruction duties are taken care of. A small contingent of tanks and aircraft will be based out of Bremerton, as well, and this will likely become a major port for my various task forces. I'll probably post the claiming of Bremerton sometime tomorrow.

Bremerton was a major base of mine which has been handed of to X.

SF, telegram!

BTW does anyone have a map of Torontia with it divided up into east and west, or at the very least an ordinary map of the place?
Yes. It's a little outdated (actually quite old, still has the Red Tide Occupation Zone) and doesn't include the BC portion.
But most of it is correct.

http://www.angelfire.com/creep/fff17/torontia/Torontia.html

Prior to leaving the Torontia:
1. The Amestrian zone (yellow) extends north into Southern BC.
2. The SF zone (blue) extends north to the BC border.
3. The SF zone extends east to meet the former Red Tide zone (red) but does not cross it, except due east along Highway 2 until Fairchild Air Force base. SF Forces also had Spokane Airport and the City of Spokane surrounded, but unoccupied (and never was).
4. Spokane is completely leveled and so is Spokane Airport thanks to an Amestrian attack.
5. The area around Bowerman airport (Gray's Harbour) was controlled by my SF allies and Yallak. Xirnium now controls it.
6. I posted in the other thread on page 22 I think all my troop deployments and some major air bases. I can provide the rest of the air bases if someone needs them.

And the various reasons are (no, not the prominent factors which most people know about already)...

I was working Early shifts around that time, so i was getting up at quater to 5 in the morning, and coming home late from work.

I just didn't have the time or the energy to set it up, and at the same time i was trying to organise the Consortium into action

Well.....I certainly missed a whole lot.....

Anyway just reading stuff and then will get into replies.

Excellent. Now I hope things go as I anticipate and I can send everyone staring down the intake of a political jet engine they cannot escape.

You know with statements like that you really do come across as a political vulture, no offence intended of course just stating a seeming fact.

Actually Novacom, if you analyze my government's policy a lot more in detail, it resembles LKY's: an owl.

I was referring to the OOC statement you made just before, and if I was to make a judgement of your Policies ICly I'd say your more like a squirrel.

McKagan thinks I'm a threat! Wohoo!

McKagan thinks I'm a threat! Wohoo!

:p

Don't take that at face value, though. I'm trying to make General Sita one of my most paranoid Commanders for future RP's. That's why he's commanding from a destroyer and not a command post inside the nation.

I wouldn't say it's the smartest move, then again though he has good right to be paranoid, my nations Arch Nemesis Admiral Kukonois will be quick to notice events and make his own contribution, his capabilities make Al-Quaeda look like girl scouts, though that's not all he can do since he has a very large and fearsome standing army.

Make no mistake whatever happens if he does rear his head will fall on everyone not just certain people, he is an enemy of all

IMAF has over 20,000 Fighters within range of Torontia.

The IMA is on a peaceful occupation (my FAVORITE term) mission and would be highly pissed should their soldiers start to die.

the Admiral and Novacom have no conncetion, you'll more often than not find Novacom activley hunting down Admiral Kukonois forces, as far as he's concerned starting a war is a good thing, especially if he implicates someone else in it.

Bremerton was a major base of mine which has been handed of to X.

Then I will take this opportunity to ask Xirnium if he might cede the city of Bremerton, and the Bremerton Naval Station (/Kitsap Naval Base) just to the north of the city itself, to me. Xirnium, may I? It's a nice central location between the borders of McKagan and Xirnium occupation zones.

Im going to be deploying a small force of The Wolf Brigade to gain a secret foothold in torontia, Im not sure where i plan to land, but if anyone has any problems with me doing so, Please say so now, I was however breifly involved in this roleplay, and the Corporation has good interest in Torontia and St Fedski

Im going to be deploying a small force of The Wolf Brigade to gain a secret foothold in torontia, Im not sure where i plan to land, but if anyone has any problems with me doing so, Please say so now, I was however breifly involved in this roleplay, and the Corporation has good interest in Torontia and St Fedski

Entering Western Torontia with a military unit would be quite difficult as the Commanding IMA General is paranoid about ANYONE and ANYTHING. The northern border is secure because TLA is up there, the coastline is secure with several Kurora LCS's, and the Southern Border is swarming with McKagan CODEX teams. Best do it in the Xirnium section, if you do. Otherwise you'll need to RP and give me a chance to stop it.

Entering Western Torontia with a military unit would be quite difficult as the Commanding IMA General is paranoid about ANYONE and ANYTHING. The northern border is secure because TLA is up there, the coastline is secure with several Kurora LCS's, and the Southern Border is swarming with McKagan CODEX teams. Best do it in the Xirnium section, if you do. Otherwise you'll need to RP and give me a chance to stop it.

I intend to RP it don't worry, The Wolf Brigade are the special forces of the Capitol Police, they are not to be taken lightly, and are experts at covert operations, they will probably be inserted via inflatable raft, using Torment Class submarines to gain entry, Or I may use Vtol Assault craft and make a spectacular violent entry, I don't know yet, im just musing at the moment and want other peoples opinions

I intend to RP it don't worry, The Wolf Brigade are the special forces of the Capitol Police, they are not to be taken lightly, and are experts at covert operations, they will probably be inserted via inflatable raft, using Torment Class submarines to gain entry, Or I may use Vtol Assault craft and make a spectacular violent entry, I don't know yet, im just musing at the moment and want other peoples opinions

Again, I already made it a very outright point that the coastline is heavily guarded. Not only is the main McKagan battlefleet there (with whoever else has one here,) but the IMN has 20 Kurora Class Corvettes patroling the littoral. A violent entry would be a very bad thing too, because doing that would A) Give the IMA a heads up that you're there. At which point they'd designate a hunter/killer unit to go and kill the SpecOps, making it much harder for you to move. and B) Probably get them killed in the landing given that IMAF has 5000 Fighters flying round-the-clock patrols with another 15,000 within range.

As I've said, if you really have something that will make the RP more interesting, then I WANT you to do it. It might just be better to do so in an area that ISN'T being ran by a paranoid General with limitless assets at his disposal.

Again, I already made it a very outright point that the coastline is heavily guarded. Not only is the main McKagan battlefleet there (with whoever else has one here,) but the IMN has 20 Kurora Class Corvettes patroling the littoral. A violent entry would be a very bad thing too, because doing that would A) Give the IMA a heads up that you're there. At which point they'd designate a hunter/killer unit to go and kill the SpecOps, making it much harder for you to move. and B) Probably get them killed in the landing given that IMAF has 5000 Fighters flying round-the-clock patrols with another 15,000 within range.

As I've said, if you really have something that will make the RP more interesting, then I WANT you to do it. It might just be better to do so in an area that ISN'T being ran by a paranoid General with limitless assets at his disposal.

Is the Torontian International Air port still operational? and is it accepting International flights? and if so who is controlling it?

Is the Torontian International Air port still operational? and is it accepting International flights? and if so who is controlling it?

No idea.

If it is McKagan held, it's currently not accepting International Flights because it would be in use to land the 350,000 (backed down number, btw) IMA Soldiers i'm flying in to support my positions.

Hhmmm, ill give it some thought

No idea.

If it is McKagan held, it's currently not accepting International Flights because it would be in use to land the 350,000 (backed down number, btw) IMA Soldiers i'm flying in to support my positions.

Three of Torontia's international airports have been destroyed... (One on the OP, the One in Seattle, and the one in Spokane). If Olympia has an airport it is still functional (provided all the electric equipment shorted out in the EMP attacks is fixed).

Torontia has dozens of airports, military and civil, many in Eastern Torontia closed. Several civil airports in Western Torontia are closed but they are under guard from the TPG...

Three of Torontia's international airports have been destroyed... (One on the OP, the One in Seattle, and the one in Spokane). If Olympia has an airport it is still functional (provided all the electric equipment shorted out in the EMP attacks is fixed).

Torontia has dozens of airports, military and civil, many in Eastern Torontia closed. Several civil airports in Western Torontia are closed but they are under guard from the TPG...

Well now the TPG is going to be under IMA control, and those "civil" airports will be used for military purposes until I get the nation running under normal operating things.

I've got major things coming for the TPG, anyway.

Three of Torontia's international airports have been destroyed... (One on the OP, the One in Seattle, and the one in Spokane). If Olympia has an airport it is still functional (provided all the electric equipment shorted out in the EMP attacks is fixed).

Torontia has dozens of airports, military and civil, many in Eastern Torontia closed. Several civil airports in Western Torontia are closed but they are under guard from the TPG...
Spokane International Airport was completely levelled by Amestria's terrorist attack.
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport was completely levelled by Yallak and Amestria
Olympia International Airport was also levelled by Amestria's terrorist attack.

Spokane International Airport was completely levelled by Amestria's terrorist attack.
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport was completely levelled by Yallak and Amestria
Olympia International Airport was also levelled by Amestria's terrorist attack.

This is OOC, you do not have to stand on your IC soap box.

How about major ports and highways to the northern territories. How is the border on those things?

This has to do with economic support for "economic friends". Such as "foreign aid" and such.

I want to see if I can get a freighter or convoy of tanks into Torontia to support allies or just wreak havoc.

How about major ports and highways to the northern territories. How is the border on those things?

I'm not sure if I know what you're talking about, but the IMA has been specifically told to secure the North.

I want to see if I can get a freighter or convoy of tanks into Amestria to support allies or just wreak havoc.

Not sure what you're talking about. Amestria no longer has a share in Torontia and no one has attacked the Amestria homeland yet.

Not sure what you're talking about. Amestria no longer has a share in Torontia and no one has attacked the Amestria homeland yet.

There is not going to be an attack on the Amestrian homeland.

There is not going to be an attack on the Amestrian homeland.

I know this.

Typo corrected.

I was referring to the OOC statement you made just before, and if I was to make a judgement of your Policies ICly I'd say your more like a squirrel.
Are you trying to say that I'm a coward? I haven't met you, so I shall not cast any judgment. I refer to an owl because my leader (not surprisingly like many others, largely based off myself) was inspired by a statesman that exists in my nation's history (if you really want to know who that person is, it's Singapore's first Prime Minister, now current Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew), when he was asked to choose an avian creature to describe his diplomatic policies, he said he was neither a hawk nor a dove, but an owl.

You really need to do a little research more about me.

NO I do not mean by a coward, I mean by storing up hoarding up until the right time.

Oh, now I get what you mean. Now let's move from that and anyway....


McKagan, TG!

McKagan, TG!

*reads TG*

Understood. :)

The Corporation will most likely be sending in troops into Xirniums location, before he gets to dug in..

Xirniumite troops were dug in before Saint Fedski left, but perhaps you noticed a new theatre for our famous rivalry?

Xirniumite troops were dug in before Saint Fedski left, but perhaps you noticed a new theatre for our famous rivalry?


Were they? hmm, oh well, Makes no difference, It'll be interesting conflict... yeah I have, Frenzia, The High Command responded personaly to it...

Then I will take this opportunity to ask Xirnium if he might cede the city of Bremerton, and the Bremerton Naval Station (/Kitsap Naval Base) just to the north of the city itself, to me. Xirnium, may I? It's a nice central location between the borders of McKagan and Xirnium occupation zones.

Xirnium, I posted this a page ago or so. Just wondering if you saw it.

Amestria, interestingly enough, The Lone Alliance dislikes Saint Fedski by a very small, tiny fraction OOCly, and he (ICly) is considering to attack the CSF, but he doesn't claim that Saint Fedski has an OOC vendetta on him nor does he claim that his motive behind attack the CSF is for OOC reasons... :rolleyes:

Amestria, interestingly enough, The Lone Alliance dislikes Saint Fedski by a very small, tiny fraction OOCly, and he (ICly) is considering to attack the CSF, but he doesn't claim that Saint Fedski has an OOC vendetta on him nor does he claim that his motive behind attack the CSF is for OOC reasons... :rolleyes:

And...?

Xirnium, I posted this a page ago or so. Just wondering if you saw it.
My apologies, I did miss it.

It's possible. The High Ecclesiarchy would have to negotiate something in high-level talks.

My apologies, I did miss it.

It's possible. The High Ecclesiarchy would have to negotiate something in high-level talks.

I would bet money that the High Ecclesiarchy would not allow it...

And why do you feel that way Amestria?

And why do you feel that way Amestria?

Oh, I don't know, maybe becasue the Xirnium government is very difficult to deal with...

Unless your a trusted ally, even then it only takea a little while, BTW Xirnium I hate to rush you but Exchange of Ways response? I know your swamped but then again success has it's costs :P

Oh, I don't know, maybe becasue the Xirnium government is very difficult to deal with...

My Secretary of State will be meeting with the Lady Cardinal who was at the Kurora Conference (sorry, X, I've forgotten her name, what with cramming for finals and all :p) in Washington to discuss the opening of formal Halberdgardian-Xirniumite relations, and more probably an alliance. Bremerton will likely be on the agenda during those talks.

X, I'm thinking of starting that diplomacy RP this weekend, though I may have quite a bit of reviewing for finals. If not this weekend, we'll be looking at Wednesday afternoon of next week, since that's my last day of finals.

Oh the Torontia Socialist Union posted a message to Xirnium awhile ago.

And...?
As in to say, TLA doesn't mix IC and OOC prejudices.

My Secretary of State will be meeting with the Lady Cardinal who was at the Kurora Conference (sorry, X, I've forgotten her name, what with cramming for finals and all :p) in Washington to discuss the opening of formal Halberdgardian-Xirniumite relations, and more probably an alliance. Bremerton will likely be on the agenda during those talks.

X, I'm thinking of starting that diplomacy RP this weekend, though I may have quite a bit of reviewing for finals. If not this weekend, we'll be looking at Wednesday afternoon of next week, since that's my last day of finals.

Yeah, Hal, what happened to the Among Friends thread you had going on?

BTW I had deployed a sizable naval force when I thought hostilities were going to take place to monitor the situation and such, but now everything went dead. My question is, is there anything I can have the force do so I can stay somewhat connected to the RP?

if you wish an Admiral Kukonois Battle Covenant Fleet could be conjured up, that could of course open up an oppourtunity of a Blood Crusade being launched, the Admiral may be sane but his flunkies are quite mad so them slinging in a large Battle Covenant wouldn't be too much of a stretch (in fact it's not a stretch lol) this would of course be consentual by all involved, both to the Battle Covenant attacking and the Blood Crusade being launched (essentially an overglorified terrosit campaign with a few twists)

The problem is that the most nations in the rp are MT Novacom, and HailandKill is one of them.

I'm so confounded...

I'm so confounded...
Join the club, but basicly you're not there anymore I think...

Depends what you want SC. I left your troops up in the air. They can either be there with the 200 Elite Guards I still have there, or they can be withdrawn with the rest of my special forces.

Uh... I don't care either. It would have been fun to kill a couple of Amestrians, but apparently the results of that engagement we had were never revealed. If you want us out, just send us home. But we better get paid.

You can't keep Ignoring the TSU now.

Novacom, this is a MT RP. Mind control is not MT. Thus, your mind control device is not to be allowed in this RP.

:)

Mckagan, just to point out those sensors would not have such a drastic effect on the time it would take to search BC…

BC is heavily mountainous and is one of the most forested regions in Torontia, thus there would be many areas where they would be unable to operate those special sensors.

Further, you are aware that BC went through a massive bombing campaign, which saw tons or dumb and smart bombs used… A lot of the BC is pretty torn up (as in the soil having been recently moved by indiscriminate bombings).

BC is also quite large, larger then Kosovo for instance…

I feel my estimate that it would take about a year to completely search BC for bodies/graves is quite accurate and that “a few months” is quite unrealistic even with advanced technology.

Novacom, this is a MT RP. Mind control is not MT. Thus, your mind control device is not to be allowed in this RP.

:)

Some PMT has been allowed, such as Kraven, but those Mind Control devices that Novacom is trying to use have not even been tested RP wise in the thread in which he presented them...

Lets not muck up this highly developed RP (it third chapter) to test the RP potential of this latest SCFI idea... Thats what the Xharn RP is for...

I feel there use would destroy the mood of the Torontian RP and make it into a technobabble compitition (early on the Torontian RP swore off all space based weapons to prevent techno babble arguements).

Mckagan, just to point out those sensors would not have such a drastic effect on the time it would take to search BC…

BC is heavily mountainous and is one of the most forested regions in Torontia, thus there would be many areas where they would be unable to operate those special sensors.

Further, you are aware that BC went through a massive bombing campaign, which saw tons or dumb and smart bombs used… A lot of the BC is pretty torn up (as in the soil having been recently moved by indiscriminate bombings).

BC is also quite large, larger then Kosovo for instance…

I feel my estimate that it would take about a year to completely search BC for bodies/graves is quite accurate and that “a few months” is quite unrealistic even with advanced technology.

What I'll do later is have Combat Engineers head out into the countyside to help disarm any unexploded bombs and they'll have a secondary objective.

It'll take slightly less than a year, but I won't have it done in 2 months.

Also, you do realize that i've not got to wait til we've determined there are no bodies in BC to start doing sweeps off the coast of the nation, don't you? The US Navy regularly charts the ocean floor. Of course, my submarines wouldn't know what they're looking for, but if they see fresh slabs laying there, they'd note it and then connect the dots. I doubt that would even take a year.

Who do I have to kill to get some attention!!

Who do I have to kill to get some attention!!

I suggest your friend Nod get the TSU ready to take part in elections...

EDIT: No one is going after the TSU and Nod because they have not been disruptive...

Also, you do realize that i've not got to wait til we've determined there are no bodies in BC to start doing sweeps off the coast of the nation, don't you? The US Navy regularly charts the ocean floor. Of course, my submarines wouldn't know what they're looking for, but if they see fresh slabs laying there, they'd note it and then connect the dots. I doubt that would even take a year.

The bodies are not off the coast, they are far out in the ocean, far from the Torontian coast...

My Secretary of State will be meeting with the Lady Cardinal who was at the Kurora Conference (sorry, X, I've forgotten her name, what with cramming for finals and all :p)

That's cool, it's understandable that remembering notes for your exams might perhaps take precedence over remembering the names of the Cabinet ministers of my government. :D

Anyway, whenever you get the chance I’ll be ready for the RP.

McKagan, can you please reproduce the link to your 'stealth blimp' article? Because I can't be bothered with digging through the older threads to look for it and I would like to talk with one of the leading aircraft designers of the NS world about it.

And Hal, TG...

Thread for the First Torontian Constitutional Convention (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=464320).

Nations currently involved in the Torontian RP and major political parties of Torontia are asked to attend.

TLA, I'm against your current form of RP'ing in this RP. For starters, your last post is a bit god-mod-y-ish. If not that, simply poor RP'ing.

You didn't RP any of the content of the speaches to give someone a chance to counter them, and basically warped time to have everyone magically support your more.

Also, who says you get to RP how the Torontian people feel?

Basically, I don't think it's fair for you to think you've got a better RP standing and deserve more IC when you're making like 3 line posts about what happens and everyone else is writing it down to the coffee table level about how things are working. That way things make sense: Your way they don't.

Ya'know, I wonder who would win if it turned out to be this way: Novacom-Xirnium-Yallak-Kahanistan vs. SWC? I have my faith in them, as they were one of my first few friends on NS ICly and OOCly (two specifically, Leafanistan and Halberdgardia).

I have no idea how that could even begin to start as a real conflict, but given the SWC's past, I wouldn't count us out of anything. :p

Good God, SEA, where do you come up with this stuff? :p

Like McKagan said, I have no idea how that would even start, but it'd certainly be interesting to see how it would play out. The scary thing is, I think they might overwhelm us just through sheer numbers...

Good God, SEA, where do you come up with this stuff? :p

Like McKagan said, I have no idea how that would even start, but it'd certainly be interesting to see how it would play out. The scary thing is, I think they might overwhelm us just through sheer numbers...

Numbers? Nah. I've specifically designed my military to be able to fight against much larger numbers. That's why I'm doing the same job in Torontia with 120,000 troops that Amestria did with several million. I'd make it so unprofitable that they'd almost have to go to the diplomacy table. Sure, if they didn't want to, they'd eventually win, but they'd be wide open to invasion by just about anyone else with a fresh military.

Ya'know, I wonder who would win if it turned out to be this way: Novacom-Xirnium-Yallak-Kahanistan vs. SWC? I have my faith in them, as they were one of my first few friends on NS ICly and OOCly (two specifically, Leafanistan and Halberdgardia).

Hehe.. the High Ecclesiarchy is not foolish enough to become involved in a major war with a large military bloc for no reason. So far, political manoeuvring has been wildly successful for Holy Xirnium in Torontia, I see no reason for this to change.

Ahh, lots of replies in the Torontian RPs.. I see jolt is back.

Hehe.. the High Ecclesiarchy is not foolish enough to become involved in a major war with a large military bloc for no reason. So far, political manoeuvring has been wildly successful for Holy Xirnium in Torontia, I see no reason for this to change.


Exactly. So many things would have to change for an armed military conflict to begin that it's impossible to tell.

Not really. Then again, I can always have Ho at the conference tap into the two very same dark sides Yallak and the SWC have (imperialism, but at least the SWC can do a decent job by ADMITTING it) and say to them "My, my dear Yallakians, why should you let these insignificant little nothings control fifty percent of the lands you rightfully vanquished? True, the SWC took the most of the beatings but they didn't crush the New Order did they? Remove their pestilence and you and Xirnium can have it your way ALL THE TIME!"

So persuasive... I'm sure that will easily bend both the High Council of Arrandin and the High Ecclesiarchy to your will, Southeast Asia. :D

I'd really like to not have to go build a few hundred 800mm guns along the coastline. :)

Xirnium: Was that really meant or not?

McKagan: Might as well start taking precautions. What about my other post regarding the blimp (previous page)?

Halberdgardia: Please respond to my TG.

Xirnium, the Ministry of Public relations has the ability to block all unauthorized channels (they have been in power for a year now and Eastern Torontia was controled by their mortal enemy, so they have many safe guards in place). So no broadcasts from Eastern Torontia will make it into Western Torontia (unless you count static).

That's why I'm doing the same job in Torontia with 120,000 troops that Amestria did with several million.

That and the Amestrians are nothing more than a well organized rabble. Why do you think I didn't have any problems in Eastern Torontia? Excellent intelligence, well trained military and a proactive leadership. I only had something like 307,000 soldiers, mainly to deal with Amestria.

Just to refresh everyone's memory...

There are still 200 Ellite Guards in Torontia. There are 100 in Western Torontia, 100 in Eastern and 50 in BC. They will fall under the command of the Xirnimites once they establish themselves. Instead of falling under the command of Xirnium, they have faded into the population but will make a secret appearance shortly in the form of an assassination.

That and the Amestrians are nothing more than a well organized rabble. Why do you think I didn't have any problems in Eastern Torontia? Excellent intelligence, well trained military and a proactive leadership. I only had something like 307,000 soldiers, mainly to deal with Amestria.


That is not true. Mckagan is not even coming close to performing the on same level as the Amestrian Military (mainly as Amestria had far more manpower to throw around and greater influence of the TPG). The Amestrian Military is also highly trained, as I have demonstrated (I will determine the quality of my nations soldiers thank you very much). And SF did not have problems in Eastern Torontia because there were few attempts to undermine them while Amestria fought off Red Tide, Mckagan's TPLA, and the Hand of Nod's/Lone Alliances TSU at one point.

There are still 200 Ellite Guards in Torontia. There are 100 in Western Torontia, 100 in Eastern and 50 in BC. They will fall under the command of the Xirnimites once they establish themselves. Instead of falling under the command of Xirnium, they have faded into the population but will make a secret appearance shortly in the form of an assassination.

There are no Elite Guard in Western Torontia (which includes BC). How did they get there in the first place? There were tarvel restrictions in place.

Either way Amestria, your economy recently took a hit and your military was scaled back. It was around 3 trillion but now its 2.5. With a 10,000,000 person-military that works out to $250,000 per person. Now factor in the cost of new equipment, equipment up-keep, various required supplies such as gas, nuts and bolts, then the price per person takes a huge hit. In turn personnel will become displeased with their pay and their conditions and begin leaving the military allowing for new recruits who have no choice to accept the conditions and meagre pay if they want any sort of income.

With veteran soldiers retiring, the quality of the forces diminishes greatly and therefore the effectiveness and the strength is quite weakened from its already weak state. So even with your previous 3 trillion, that still works out to 300,000/person not including the costs of operating a military (explained above).

More bickering again eh?

Either way Amestria, your economy recently took a hit and your military was scaled back. It was around 3 trillion but now its 2.5. With a 10,000,000 person-military that works out to $250,000 per person. Now factor in the cost of new equipment, equipment up-keep, various required supplies such as gas, nuts and bolts, then the price per person takes a huge hit. In turn personnel will become displeased with their pay and their conditions and begin leaving the military allowing for new recruits who have no choice to accept the conditions and meagre pay if they want any sort of income.


The budget is still three trillion, the NS calculater is off because of the daily issues (also remember the population increases each day, since things can be different each day it is up to the player to make the rough estimate).

You are also ignoring the administration budget, the law and order budget, and the education budget (the education budget alone equals 23% of government spending) all of which have military aspects. The Amestrian Military is not experiencing a drain of experienced people (Military service is considered a respectable Middle Class profession and currently there is a stop loss program in place). It is also nearing the beginning of the new Amestrian fiscal year.

And the Amestrian Military is currently 15 million.

New announcement from the government:
The Republic of New McFarland has announced a new policy towards the military. All $17 trillion of the GDP will be put into spending for the military. We will encourage other commonwealth nations to follow our example.

New announcement from the government:

:confused:

Originally Posted by Government of New McFarland
The Republic of New McFarland has announced a new policy towards the military. All $17 trillion of the GDP will be put into spending for the military. We will encourage other commonwealth nations to follow our example.

Originally Posted by Government of New McFarland
The Republic of New McFarland has announced a new policy towards the military. All $17 trillion of the GDP will be put into spending for the military. We will encourage other commonwealth nations to follow our example.

:confused: I still don't get it.

Anyway, just to point out I am still RPing Amestria as having a 1.5 Billion population (it now has a 1.7 billion population) and we are all still RPing Torontia as having 500 million people. The NScalculator is great for estimates, but the complete picture is left to the player (as the nations population goes up by several million each day and there are fluctuations caused by the issues).

So persuasive... I'm sure that will easily bend both the High Council of Arrandin and the High Ecclesiarchy to your will, Southeast Asia. :D

Deffinately...i'm convinced!!!

Another thing, one cannot just go from a say 2 trillion budget in something (military, police, social programs) to a 5 trillion budget overnight. As my father, who works in government, is so found of explaining, doubling an existing departments budget tends to give them more money then they can spend (or even know how to spend productivly). In RL budgets are increased/decreased slowly over each fiscal year to give departments time to adjust to changes (planning is important).

So, even though this is NS, the one cannot just throw a huge amount of money at something overnight. The Amestrian Military budget has most likely been increasing slowly for the good part of a year to take into account new expenses (the full cost being recorded at the end of the year).

If there were to be such a war, it would certainly end up as a highly unusual one, and no SEA it would not help Xharn in the slightest it would actually make things worse with the invasion being accelerated and more beacon drops under the logic that it would be best to knock out another enemy quickly and move onto the next, and of course with something I have in mind in the very near future which Xirnium has already been made privy to things look set to get a whole lot wierder.

Amestria SF, why are you 2 continuing to argue when it has no relevance to this RP now whatsoever?

Amestria SF, why are you 2 continuing to argue when it has no relevance to this RP now whatsoever?

I don't know, it just seems to come naturally.

Novacom, does any of the weirdness you have planned involve me?

Xirnium: Was that really meant or not?

Of course not.

There are still 200 Ellite Guards in Torontia. There are 100 in Western Torontia, 100 in Eastern and 50 in BC. They will fall under the command of the Xirnimites once they establish themselves. Instead of falling under the command of Xirnium, they have faded into the population but will make a secret appearance shortly in the form of an assassination.

Is that right? Well, this will not have gone unnoticed.

Is that right? Well, this will not have gone unnoticed.

I have issues with the 150 in Western Torontia (how did they get there?!).

If they are still there then they will be hunted down, I beleive these could be useful for what I have planned, refer to that TG I sent to you Xirnium.

The Wierdness I have planned will not be confined, by it's very nature what I have planned will affect a great deal of people, but do not worry it will be temporary and certainly won't leave you open to an attack from SF.

The Wierdness I have planned will not be confined, by it's very nature what I have planned will affect a great deal of people, but do not worry it will be temporary and certainly won't leave you open to an attack from SF.

That is not what I meant. Will this weirdness be in the Torontian RP or just the Xharn RP?

Torontian with some implications for Xharn, oh don't worry it's not that type of wierdness, I've kept your early requests in mind, and this will add to the nice caludron of political and economical scandal we have brewing.

If they are still there then they will be hunted down, I beleive these could be useful for what I have planned, refer to that TG I sent to you Xirnium.
I've not ignored it, just still get around to replying I'm afraid. Still a little busy.
As for the Saint Fedskian special forces, if they've decided to go AWOL they will be considered deserters and dealt with accordingly.

I hope dealt with accordingly will entail being turned over, I have some dark designs on missing individuals.

We're all busy lol, but as someone said that I don't remember the name of, The War is On.

I hope dealt with accordingly will entail being turned over, I have some dark designs on missing individuals.
I guess that depends on the Saint Fedskians and how they react when challenged, as well as those who find them. But we can't exactly allow rogue units wondering around.

Certainly not, Though for the units that will inevitably be sent out to find them I'll have some of my own forces accompanying them, a few Capitol Enforcers will be in the area, which BTW are roughly an analogue to Military and Civilian Police, they're a civilian unit, and arn't truly part of the military, they don't see much use at my homelands, since culturally crime isn't in the Novan Psyche, usually.

Of course not.
Then why even put a big grin icon when I'll misinterpret it and neither Yallak or you would ICly listen?

Then why even put a big grin icon when I'll misinterpret it and neither Yallak or you would ICly listen?

Because it was sarcasm - a joke.

Ah. *grumblesstupidmegrumbles*

Didn't Sniper Country still say that he was in the rp? Because you have the potential Xirnium of going down as one of the better NS legends around....and your Inquisitors going up against SC's units and pwning him is going to shock AMF greatly. ;)

and your Inquisitors going up against SC's units and pwning him is going to shock AMF greatly. ;)
Hehe.. always looking for a good fight, aren't you Southeast Asia?

Fortunately, though, I can see absolutely no reason for my troops to have to face off against Sniper Country's. Even less reason then a war against the SWC.

Took the words right out of everyone's collective mouth :P

That is not true. Mckagan is not even coming close to performing the on same level as the Amestrian Military (mainly as Amestria had far more manpower to throw around and greater influence of the TPG). The Amestrian Military is also highly trained, as I have demonstrated (I will determine the quality of my nations soldiers thank you very much). And SF did not have problems in Eastern Torontia because there were few attempts to undermine them while Amestria fought off Red Tide, Mckagan's TPLA, and the Hand of Nod's/Lone Alliances TSU at one point.

The IMA is performing on the exact same level: The level it has to to survive.

They were smart enough and had the diplomacy personnel to back them up to NOT start a conflict with everyone in the theatre. :p

The IMA is performing on the exact same level: The level it has to to survive.


No, there is a difference between 100,000 troops and one million troops. For example, Mckagan cannot quickly assemble and disassembe structures nor clear rubble. Mckagans troops serve purely military roles and are unable to provide additional services to Western Torontia's civilian population, they lack the manpower to provide disaster relief, perform police duties, establish quarantines, perform saturation patrols...ect.

Mckagan the TPG has not lost 400,000, its numbers are still at 2 million. A stop loss program is in effect and desertion is punishable by death (and those who can no longer serve for whatever reason are immediatly replaced). Saying the TPG lost troops is a godmod (deciding other peoples losses, even if it is non-combat related).

Also, two months is not long enough to establish major industry.

Mckagan cannot quickly assemble and disassembe structures nor clear rubble.

Correct. However, they simply drop a big ass check to Avalt Security International (ASI) to do that for them.


they lack the manpower to provide disaster relief, perform police duties, establish quarantines, perform saturation patrols...ect.

And the IMA isn't designed to do that. It's designed as a fast moving force that can be anywhere it needs to be in a very short time. I've been very careful to establish various anti-Special Forces units around that can watch for that sort of insertion.

It's all about efficency. I can do basically the same job as you (minus fight off so many people in frontline combat, then again, we'd see that coming and boost numbers) while keeping my strategic reserve at their home bases training and keeping fresh. If you had been attacked at the homeland while you were in Torontia, you would have had very little to fight back with. On the otherhand, I've still got the most potent forces in my military in reserve.

Oh, and i'm getting ready to send you a TG.

If you had been attacked at the homeland while you were in Torontia, you would have had very little to fight back with. On the otherhand, I've still got the most potent forces in my military in reserve.


The invasion force would have been met by around 14 million Amestrian Military Personnel...

Mckagan, I have sent you a reply.

They lack the manpower to provide disaster relief, perform police duties, establish quarantines, perform saturation patrols...ect.


And the IMA isn't designed to do that.

Well the Amestrian Military is... Different Military structures and philosophies.

The invasion force would have been met by around 14 million Amestrian Military Personnel...
How, precisely, can you justify such a massive military when not in wartime?

Anyway, that isn't the point. Since neither McKagan nor Xirnium are preparing for a major war it therefore follows that their troops stationed in Torontia could be put to much better use, which I daresay was not the case when you and Saint Fedski were preparing to drag Torontia into civil war.

The invasion force would have been met by around 14 million Amestrian Military Personnel...

It's not as much about how many people you'd have, but more about what they'd be using. How many tanks, trucks, artillery systems, aircraft, and naval systems would you have around Amestria? The fact is, it's alot harder for a person to get through your "tools" than it is to outnumber someones infantry.

Well the Amestrian Military is... Different Military structures and philosophies.
Different indeed. Your military is designed to all but rule a nation, replacing virtually all civilian functions, whereas others' militaries are not.

How, precisely, can you justify such a massive military when not in wartime?


Amestria has 1.5 billion people and there is a civil war right next door in ViZion...

Different indeed. Your military is designed to all but rule a nation, replacing virtually all civilian functions, whereas others' militaries are not.

That sounds alot like my nation... which is a dictatorship.

That sounds alot like my nation... which is a dictatorship.
True.. but Amestria tries to pretend that their nation is a liberal democracy, which your nation does not.

True.. but Amestria tries to pretend that their nation is a liberal democracy, which your nation does not.

Amestria is a Liberal Democracy. I do not see how having a Military that provides certain civil services and in the event of a collapse of civil authority can immediately intervene to provide essential services somehow disqualifies Amestria... (the Amestrian Military does not rule Amestria).

I am so thankful I have not gotten tied up in this argument.

I suppose it is fortunate that my citizens are more than willing to sacrifice personal freedom for the greater good, then again though over 7 millenia of isolation makes for a wildy different and unique culture.

in the event of a collapse of civil authority can immediately intervene to provide essential services somehow disqualifies Amestria... (the Amestrian Military does not rule Amestria).
The fact is that, whenever the Amestrian Executive needs something done outside the rule of law, they declare a "breakdown of civil authority" and proceed to do everything arbitrarily to suit their own agenda. This can be seen in Torontian and in Kahanistan.

Personally, I see no differece between Red Tide and Amestria (except that everyone knows that Red Tide doesn't pretend to be a democracy).

Personally, I see no differece between Red Tide and Amestria (except that everyone knows that Red Tide doesn't pretend to be a democracy).

Then you are as blind as a bat. Amestria has elections, the rule of law (the actions you cite take place in foreign nations where the rule of law is debatable at best), checks and balances (even though things may be weighted in favor of the Central Authority), an honest government (you can't go in and bribe the President), many social liberties/civil freedoms, and high living standards.

It is the opposite of Red Tide in everyway.

Amestria, I really don't think it is. I really agree with Xirnium in a way. Just because you say you have elections doesn't mean they're fair or anything, either. Also, your miliary is what STOPPED the formation of "the rule of law" in Torontia, so they basically kept themselves employed there.

Amestria has elections, the rule of law (the actions you cite take place in foreign nations where the rule of law is debatable at best), checks and balances (even though things may be weighted in favor of the Central Authority), an honest government (you can't go in and bribe the President), many social liberties/civil freedoms, and high living standards.

Rubbish.

Firstly, the Constitution of the West Torontian government was installed by a foreign power, without ever consulting the Torontian people. Therefore, no legitimacy is drawn from popular soverignty at all.

Secondly, to claim you have either a rule of law or an honest government is absurd. You dispensed with both when you executed suspected TPLA members without trial simply because they represented a threat to the TPG.

ICly anything that is even by a hairsbredth weighted in someone's favour would not be considered a Democracy by myself, if anything I can propably lay claim to having the only true democracy, you don't vote for a personality you vote for someone because of their skills, what they can do and what they will do, there is no such thing as a fake election promise in Novacom.

Though I do agree with Mckagan but since it's all in the past it is a moot point and not worth AGRUING ABOUT YET AGAIN.

Secondly, to claim you have either a rule of law or an honest government is absurd. You dispensed with both when you executed suspected TPLA members without trial simply because they represented a threat to the TPG.

What happens on a plague infested battlefield half a world away does not justify calling Amestria's Government a dictatorship.

And the TPLA (which killed over 40,000 people with a bio-weapon) was crushed and no longer represents a threat to Torontia (and as far as the Amestrian's who executed the TPLA members were concerned, it was legal). Spare me the idealistic outrage OOC.

(the actions you cite take place in foreign nations where the rule of law is debatable at best)

I Hope that is not a snide insult at someone here, you are on the brink of making SF look like a saint, which is somthing I would have thought you had no desire to do.

Firstly, the Constitution of the West Torontian government was installed by a foreign power, without ever consulting the Torontian people. Therefore, no legitimacy is drawn from popular soverignty at all.


The Amestrian State does not believe sovereignty or legitimacy comes from the populace. The Amestrian State believes that both sovereignty and legitimacy comes from institutions (a big difference).

The Amestrian State does not believe sovereignty or legitimacy comes from the populace.
Then Amestria is not in anyway a democracy, which is something that the High Ecclesiarchy has always known.

I Hope that is not a snide insult at someone here, you are on the brink of making SF look like a saint, which is somthing I would have thought you had no desire to do.

It was not an insult... I was stating the truth. Xirnium attacked Amestria's use of force overseas as being outside the rule of law. I counter that those places where force was used did not have a rule of law at the time (they were legal no mans lands).

1) BC, the superflu bioweapon kills 40,000 (slowly) and causes the entire province to shut down. Amestria establishes a quarantine and launchs offensives against the TPLA.

2) Kahanistan, rioters (who have already killed several thousand Amestrian citizens) attack the Amestrian Embassy with military grade weapons. Amestria dispatchs military helocopters and mows the attacking rioters down.

Then Amestria is not in anyway a democracy, as the High Ecclesiarchy has always belived.

If the main governing institutions are democratic then Amestria is a democracy, just one with a different governing philosophy. I am sorry Amestria fails to meet your oh so perfect definition.

Just a note regarding the special forces in Torontia. They are not AWOL, they are still under control by the Commonwealth, just not Xirnium or anyone else. I do not believe they were officially transferred to Xirnium's command either. Amestria/TPG would have no clue about them, nor would McKagan, with Scott McKelvie and General Ferdinand no longer around, at least publically, the temporary government in Eastern Torontia would no longer have a clue. I still don't know if I have mentioned them publically to Xirnium, yet.

I Hope that is not a snide insult at someone here, you are on the brink of making SF look like a saint, which is somthing I would have thought you had no desire to do.
SF is a saint...Saint Fedski infact!

Just a note regarding the special forces in Torontia. They are not AWOL, they are still under control by the Commonwealth, just not Xirnium or anyone else. I do not believe they were officially transferred to Xirnium's command either. Amestria/TPG would have no clue about them, nor would McKagan, with Scott McKelvie and General Ferdinand no longer around, at least publically, the temporary government in Eastern Torontia would no longer have a clue. I still don't know if I have mentioned them publically to Xirnium, yet.

I dispute how those Special forces could have gotten into Western Torontia.

I am sorry Amestria fails to meet your oh so perfect definition.

Not "oh so perfect" at all. Let's be honest, this is OOC after all. The Amestrian militatry imposed their own form of governance without ever consulting the Torontian people. To call this "democracy" is grotesque. Yours is a puppet government as any other, and it is being exposed as a puppet government by your refusal to allow other parties to run for it.

Not "oh so perfect" at all. Let's be honest, this is OOC after all. The Amestrian militatry imposed their own form of governance without ever consulting the Torontian people. To call this "democracy" is grotesque. Yours is a puppet state as any other, and it is being exposed as a puppet state by your refusal to allow other parties to run for it.

Someone needs to take it easy... (and I was talking about Amestria's democracy, not Western Torontia's).

As for the other parties, there are no elections scheduled at present. When there are elections for the new national government everyone will be allowed to run freely in Western Torontia. The TPG in the meantime would like to keep its hold on power. Since it is going to dissolve itself anyway if the convention goes well and produces a National Governent, I fail to see how argueing OOC about its exact legal definition helps anything.

We are argueing IC differences OOC... Nothing is going to be resolved by continued arguement down this line.

Just a note Regarding the TSU, they've returned to BC and they have around a quarter of the providence on their side up there, They are also heavily armed and are gaining more followers. So General Sita should put a Big TSU over BC.

I dispute how those Special forces could have gotten into Western Torontia.

Same here.

They weren't RP'd against either of us for the transport and are thus not an agreeable force.