NationStates Jolt Archive

keeping myself out of this mess is hard

But that's what makes it so fun! :D

The Roycelandian Empire isn't quite as bad as Lusaka makes out ;) - it's based largely upon trade and natural resources, and having lots of overseas colonies for everyone to go hunting in. :P

Realistically, each Roycelandian colony is more like a RL State of Australia (they're not quite as independent as US States), and despite Soviet propaganda to the contrary, the Empire is a democratic, 1st world place with a very high standard of living, free medical care and education, a thriving economy, and all sorts of other good things.

Unfortunately for the Roycelandians, in many ways they're still stuck in the past, and are undergoing a bit of cultural shock as they realise there are Nations out there than don't like them very much and that their policy of selling arms to anyone who could afford them may have benefitted from greater oversight.

Still, the Emperor is a rather amusing and friendly chap (try and imagine Stephen Fry in a pith Helmet and a Loud Shirt), with a perpetually put-upon aide known as Wiggles (think Hugh Laurie as Lt. George in Blackadder Goes Forth) and a bit of a thing for the ladies.

In short, Roycelandia would normally limit their military campaigns to Africa and the Pacific where the locals weren't as likely to shoot back at them, but is of late realising they may have to go out there and bust some heads to remind people that just because the Emperor wears amusing shirts doesn't mean it's all fun and games as far as the Empire goes...

Alrighty, ladies (do we have any ladies in AMW, or is this, to use a crude term, a complete "sausage fest"?) I have come to a decision. The idea of a super leftist society has fascinated me. When I first entered NS, I had two ambitions. One, was to create a nation based on how I wanted to rule someday. That was mainly achieved with Putin (albeit some differences for purposes of story telling), and now I can move onto my second dream.

That dream is to create, from scratch, my own society. Perhaps not the society I would like to live in, yes, but one that wasn't ripped off from the ideas of others, one that was wholly, piece by piece, forged by my own imagination. I've long envied BG's creation of a Celtic kingdom in India, and Spyr's amazingly detailed Lyongian society.

And here it is, the Unified Combine of Armandian Cheese. I've given you the basic idea of how it operates; now we get down, in the words of Nacho, the Mexican Wrestler from the Jack Black movie Nacho Libre, "to the nitty gritty."

I want The Combine to take on several roles in the world. Firstly, I want them to be the leftist United Elias; technically sharing the same ideology, but far more inclined to stay out of most matters and simply settle most matters through covert action or simple menace. Additionally, I want to be a bit of a thorn in Beth Gellert's side. Not a foe, mind you, but rather, a rival, a nation willing to provide leadership to those currently faced with no choice but to follow the Bedgellen lead. At times we may agree with the Bedgellens, and at times we may disagree with them, but most importantly, we will be their equals.

I think a long standing cultural dispute between the Armandians and the Bedgellens over conformity and individuality may be very interesting to pursue.

Another important relationship I'd like to pursue would be with the United Elians. The United Elians and the The Combine would likely despise each other, due to two things. The Combine would be democratic, Communist, and extremely environmentalist. The first two issues need no explanation, the third one requires a bit of elaboration. The Combine has long revered the idea of unity, not only amongst people, but with the planet itself as well, and thus holds pollution to be barbaric. The entire electric grid is supported by a combination of solar power, wind power, hydro electric dams, and most importantly nuclear power. UE, as a major supplier of fossil fuels, is viewed by The Combine as a sort of international proliferator of nuclear weapons, and thus despises them. Additionally, UE's massive, sun scorched deserts are viewn as ideal places for gigantic solar panels...

For the previously stated reasons, I believe it is obvious that my nation must fulfill certain criteria. One, it must be highly populated, two, it must be economically in the first world, and three, it must be between UE and BG. I therefore propose a union of...

Pakistan: 165,803,560
Iran: 68,688,433
Georgia: 4,661,473
Armenia: 2,976,372
Azerbaijan: 7,961,619
Afghanistan: 31,056,997

That would give The Combine a total population of 281,148,454 mindless servant drones---I mean, errr, happy members of a productive and unified society. ;)

I realize there are a few issues involved. Pakistan, I believe, is at least partially owned by LRR, yes? And Afghanistan has been invaded by UE and Depkazia, so I don't know if we can work that one out. I'm willing to mess around here a bit, perhaps take on a few non-contiguous territories. I know it seems like a blatant population grab, and you know what?

It is. I want to be at, or at least near, the 300 million mark, because it's vital for my RP that my nation be capable of standing up to BG and UE. I don't want to be greedy, but my country simply doesn't work if I'm not a menacing power. I understand this is a lot to trust me with, but I've been on here for almost two years now, and I do believe (I might be wrong) that I've earned your RPing trust, and more importantly, respect.

So...what was it that the Red Pimpernel was so fond of saying? Something with a "ho"?

Well, let's this hope this little endeavor brings us as much enjoyment as Royce's legion of hoes brings him. :)

Pakistan is mostly part of the INU, and the rest of it is controlled by strange and paranoid Mustafa Shareef, his logically-named state of North Pakistan.

North Pakistan could be absorbed, but its got a history behind it now...I don't quite know how you'd get there, with the INU in the way and with its eye on Iranian border provinces.

But otherwise, it looks fairly interesting.

Interesting! I've wanted someone in Iran. Of course this will put relatively little Depkazia in upheaval between leftist you, feudalist Russian Empire, and the capitalist PR China, which will be... interesting.

Well, as I say, I'll be glad to see someone in Iran. I did reference co-operation with Tehran out of necessity for trade, and as a spin-off in some nuclear co-operation, but I'm quite happy to dismiss that for an interesting neighbour.

Azerbaijan and Armenia I'd referenced a bit more, over Depkazia's disputes in the Caspian, and had been hoping to exploit Armenia's position as the world's oldest Christian nation to get HL support for a brief war with Azerbaijan to secure petrochemical reserves in the Caspian, but since Depkazia's having a coup I suppose that I won't be following-up that story-line anyway. We'll certainly be looking for Beijing and Baghdad to support our claims in the sea, though :)

I wonder, what will the people be like, ethnically and religiously speaking? Tchokareff liked to 'find' and destroy 'Azeri nationalists' to worry Tehran and ingratiate himself to the Iranians, but I suppose that won't have been an issue for him with radical leftist neighbours.

Anyway, that's probably not important, but may be more so in Afghanistan.

I'm fine with you taking Iran, and have no issue with Georgia, and I'm sure I can easily get used to the changes that your taking Azerbaijan and Armenia may mean for Depkazia's future (Georgia, Azerbbaijan, and Armenia will presumably have become yours after the collapse of the USSR?), but Afghanistan, I can't help thinking, ought to be different.

Afghanistan has RP history with more than just me, so it's not easy to dismiss like any half-plots that I had just for the sake of something to do while Russia was quiet. We know that the Taliban are in power, and they and rebel groups have been played by a few players. It's almost as hectic as the real thing! But I quite like that, it's a different place, the great game.

Depkazia has interests in the north, and sway with the Depkazi population (Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkmen, et cetera, being in AMW all Depkazis, making for over a third of Afghanistan's population), North Pakistan has its grubby paws in the south, too. But there's no reason why Armandian Cheese (hehe, can I just call it the Union Combine?) can't stick hits nose in from the west.

Perhaps we should honour Afghanistan's unmanageable heritage by having multiple powers constantly fighting over it as a crossroads between peoples, faiths, and ideologies, with difficult terrain, almost no infrastructure, and a growing, conflicted population. At various times, various nations can have various extents of the country under their control, but I just feel like it should kind of always remain... grey.

Anyway, if nobody objects, there's 84.25ish million people in Iran, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Georgia, plus variable interests in Afghanistan, which makes the nation bigger than Walmington, France, et cetera.

Looking back at this post, I've not really added as much as I thought. Pakistan is accounted for, and Afghanistan crawling in foreign and based-on-RL fighters, otherwise it's fine by me.

Everybody!

I need Planes!!

Fighters, carrier aircraft, and bombers

Post in The Southern Confedracy thread or Telegram me!

and an AWACS!

I just realized, AC...if its numbers you're after, there isn't a better place than North Hindustan. It doesn't have any RP history behind it, and contains over 200 million people, not quite as much as your first proposal but enough to seriously antagonize both Beth Gellert and the INU, which continues to lay claim to pretty much all of India besides the Bedgellen part.

Sure, you wouldn't have sea access, but you'd have a border with China...ehm...well...perhaps North Hindustan isn't the best place to go if you've got global ambitions, since you're hemmed-in on all sides. Not to mention, its not exactly economically first-world, since Mumbai has embargoed a lot of industrial equipment.

It would be interesting if you claimed part of Afghanistan, because then we could have three-way proxy wars. Depkazia has an excellent idea in Afghanistan always being contested.

Being a democracy as well as being a supplier of fossil fuels, the combine would probably find favour in Beijing's sights. Of course if Afghanistan and by extension Depkazia and Tcokareff's Chinese backers, things could get very interesting.

Alrighty, here goes...the nation will ethnically be composed of Asians of the Chinese variety, albeit very fair skinned. A typical Armandian would wear clothing that was what we would call traditionally Persian, however.

In terms of territory, Pakistan won't work, so I shall replace that claim with North Hindustan. It can be economically first world, since we'd simply erase the history of the INU embargo (why would the INU embargo a fellow leftist nation?) As for Afghanistan, I like Depkazia's idea. The Combine would control a certain segment of Afghanistan, but that segment would be vague, undefined, and constantly shifting, due to the country's choatic nature. The historical justification would be that Afghani Communists, seeing that the USSR was going to leave them out to dry, would call upon the aid of the Combine.

So how about this, then...

Iran, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, parts of Afghanistan and North Hindustan. That puts me at around 280 million, plus varying numbers in Afghanistan.

Um, does Depkazia hold those territories, (Azerbaijan, Armenia or Gerogia)?

If not, there needs to be some kind of Russian and Soviet history there. Just that very importnat stuff came out of there, like Stalin. (He was Georgian).

But say it isn't so, like we need another Progressive in the world! The list of conservative demoncracies is soooo short at maybe Japan, Quinntonia, Australaisa, and Walmington.

WWJD
Amen.

Why would the INU embargo a fellow leftist nation? Because it claims North Hindustan's territory!

But say it isn't so, like we need another Progressive in the world! The list of conservative demoncracies is soooo short at maybe Japan, Quinntonia, Australaisa, and Walmington.

You forgot the Chinese... when you add it all up, yee ole' conservative democracies aren't doing to badly.

On AC's proposal, everything has been pretty much mentioned above, at least for Afghanistan... on Pakistan, LRR has crafted a wonderfully rich tapestry of history, regional politics, and the like... it would be a shame to just drop in a new entity that doesn't build on what is already there.

Depkazia would like to hold Azerbaijan (or at least the Baku petrochemical fields and the southwestern Caspian), but does not, though it doesn't always act like it, and will certainly be a pain in the Combine's collective something, all right ;)

OOC: Can I get a map of the various divisions of India? Specifically, where North Hindustan is located?

You forgot the Chinese... when you add it all up, yee ole' conservative democracies aren't doing to badly.

On AC's proposal, everything has been pretty much mentioned above, at least for Afghanistan... on Pakistan, LRR has crafted a wonderfully rich tapestry of history, regional politics, and the like... it would be a shame to just drop in a new entity that doesn't build on what is already there.
Walmington isn't conservative! Didn't you hear Mainwaring's speech railing against "the evils of privatization"

China is an absolute monarchy with some democratic elements.

Japan is fairly left wing in terms of economy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/ind-map-3.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/map.jpg

Hah, thanks BG! Now to figure out a history that makes such an odd geographical placement possible...

Notes on that:

The first map is a little out of date. It refers to the Igovian Soviet Commonwealth, while we now call ourselves the Indian Soviet Commonwealth. It also depicts an independent Rajasthan, but, as you can see on the Asia map, that has been reannexed to the Indian National Union.

Also, since the maps of India and Pakistan were from different sources, they don't fit perfectly together, but I think that you can see where they would interlock, especially with help from the Asia map.

Maoist Nepal is in there with Sikkim's name written on top of it, Bhutan is on the other side of Sikkim, China is north of all that, so North Hinsustan borders the Soviet Commonwealth, the INU, Maoist Nepal and Bihar, Kashmir, and the PR China, I think.

I think that, even if N.Hindustan is a problem, having Iran (plus Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia) holds potential, because Iran has the second largest natural gas reserves on earth, plus about the fourth largest oil reserves. Population wise, in the world of their times, it might be equivalent to Nazi Germany, but with useful natural resources. If the Germans hadn't run out of petrol and such...

Alternately (instead of isolated N.Hindustan), perhaps you could have holdings on the south of the Arabian peninsula, but I'm not sure how other people feel about the level of history there. I personally never could keep up with Trucial this and Al that.

Or, mayyybe at a stretch there could be a link akin to reality's East and West Pakistan, and Bangladesh could be significant? I don't think you could dismiss Bangladeshi difficulties economically speaking, but it'd give a big manpower base. I have played Bangladesh as similar to the RP People's Republic, with the Soviets trying to render aid against a climate of some of the world's worst corruption (and they fly Soviet Golkonda jets), but that might be worked out. Perhaps the eastern half of the combine would be semi-autonomous and a bit of a hole compared to the west. But that's just a suggestion from me, and may not fit your ideas at all, so, yeah, I'll stop, enjoy the maps, heh.

NOTE!!!!

I will be gone for at least a week, on vacation

so please dont invade the Southern Confederacy or anything

Right, this is in relation to what I was saying on the regional forum, and is still very much up in the air in respect of... whether or not I'll actually try to follow it through. 'pends what folk think, and whether I suddenly lose interest :)

As I say, a certain reckless country has gone and granted my visa application, and, travel details not being confirmed, I've still a few months to kill before my part in AMW becomes rather uncertain. And this has actually got me thinking about maybe one last new project.

With Armand preparing to play a left-wing nation, me almost feeling guilty about how badly the Holy League is going to get its arse kicked if things continue on their current courses, and thinking that maybe I've only a few months left for NS after several years, but I've got it in my head to maybe play a European monarchy of my own. Maybe Llewellyn's family would be involved, but more likely it'd be nothing what so ever to do with BG.

It'd probably only last three or four months, but that can be quite a while on the internet, I suppose, and I need things to do to occupy me when I'm not buying essentials and destroying evidence and what have you, so that I don't fall to blind panic.

Essentially, I'm toying with the idea of a small to mid-sized nation that could perhaps be called a second-tier power in Europe, just enough to be able to cause some trouble, but not sufficiently to induce major conflicts of interest with the Commonwealth or usurp anybody else's established role.

I expect that it would have been quite backwards up to the early C20th, the elite happy how things were. Social change was finally rumbling, just in time for the Great War to kill-off most of the inspired young men and stop it in its tracks. The Second World War would come along just in time to prevent much of a recovery, and the nation would stagger into the second half of the century still looking a lot like it expected Napoleon round for tea at any minute. Social and economic introspection and reactionary politics would be caused by the suffering associated with the clash between radical ideologies, and maybe the place would even have harboured the major players in the Holy League before they launched their republic-toppling restorations... that sort of debt may be the only thing keeping the nation from being absorbed by one of the larger League states and turned into a source of local European soldiery/labour or something. It would likely be a member of the League, but wouldn't be able to do much damage abroad except as part of a coalition. I certainly don't want to be a leader in the League as well as against it.

Mostly I'm looking at the Low Countries, Belgium and the Netherlands, as a potential base, but Poland and Sweden/Finland/Norway have some potential. I also thought that I could just take-over Italy for a while, but that's probably more than I want, and too... Italian for my liking. Likewise, I don't really want to offer to play Spain while Mac's busy, since I don't know enough about Spain, and really would rather make my own fictional nation with which to tinker for a few months.

Of course, I've already got a large, important country in AMW, though ideologically opposed to this theoretical state, so I'd understand if people objected. I think we've still got a lot of space, though, so, hm.

Any opinions on whether or not I should do any such thing at all, and, beyond that, on what I should do, are now more than welcome...

Prussians! They're damntastic! Maybe East Prussia, Bradenburg, Berlin, Danzig area? It works, after stumbling along after WWI and Nazism (Maybe the Nazis tried to get rid of them to, Hitler actually hated Prussians) coupled with the USSR involvement they never really advanced and just some nationlist spirit buried somewhere deep, deep, deep down inside inspired them to try and claw a way back to the old Prussian heritage.

Hehe, you and your Prussians!

Didn't we have someone interested in Germany? Is anything happening with that? Maybe he's just gone for the weekend? [taps screen]

I also thought briefly about Hungary, but then it's landlocked and I'd probably run into the same sort of problems as Austria... though we could always ally and, I dunno, annex Friuli-Venezia Giulia or something. Not that it'd do much good. Mh. Maybe not. Also a Sicily-Sardinia type thing, but that'd probably be more trouble than it was worth, too. Ah, I'm thinking too much about something that may not happen [quiets for a bit]

Hehe, you and your Prussians!

Didn't we have someone interested in Germany? Is anything happening with that? Maybe he's just gone for the weekend? [taps screen]

Nope, after saying high to everyone I think he just plum disappeared, Xiaguo or something like that? I havn't seen him in a good bit so I would think he's gone. Besides, who really cares about Germany when you can have a Prussian state!

Whoa, got to calm down, it would be good to see a good RPer come in and get some backward Prussians -or maybe not that backwards, maybe just sidewards- and mold them into a new state.

Also, it ould be fun for someone to actually be able to be a type of Germany, since I would guess your bigger counsin (The Federal Republic Of Germany) would give you some of their military designs, not wanting to invade, but not wanting to see their counsins under someone elses boots.

Is someone saying intricate diplomacy, having the FRoG (Haha, just noticed what the Federal Republic Of Germany spells) and then having just The Federal State Of Germany (you need to have some kind of feudal system) would be fun and maybe having some little clerks mess up on the name would be a great deal.

Yes, Prussia state, maybe a precussor to the total breakdown of Germany? A state of Denmark and some Germany, get another chunk given to a Low Country state, I guess some would then just have to be given to Austria.

Well I a going to wrench myself back on track, Hungry is interesting but probably the time for having someone added there to be devoted to being a unified Swiss-Austrio-Hungrian front is quite over, as having a big gaping whole in terms of industry, land area and technology -the things Hungry needs and Swiss would benefit from- called Austria gone.

Sicily-Sardina would just be no fun, no easy ways of expansion, under the mercy of fleet powers and with way to get a massive navy realisticaly it would be no fun.

While the Prussian state is quite the opposite, protected by France and Russia, can have fun sending troops out to Holy League fronts, no need to worry about losing your nation as Walmington is mostly a sea power. Maybe even try to engage some successful -if small- navy battles with the big bad Walmington.

If you don't take it -which would be a lot less fun- I am so going to go with this inspirational tide and jump on board.

Ah, no, not Xiaguo, some chap just a couple of pages back in this thread. I suppose that I could still potentially take part of Germany, and he the other parts, as you suggest. Still, I haven't quite the same passion for Prussians as you have :) It's an idea, though.

Ooh, ooh. "Back in the day", a whole mess of friends (and a relative or two, plus their friends) played NS, and a lot of us mustered in a (long dead) region of my creation. The guy who got me in to NS would be a seven-billion nation if he'd stuck around, but, alas. Anyway, point: one of those friends, a relative latecomer, who had little success, partly because his nation was entirely disagreeable, politically speaking, in the eyes of everyone else's, has a disproportionate weight of material related to a nation that only ever started a couple of threads, and hardly got any responses before dying of inactivity.

Assuming we're on to the right password (it was a long time ago), I'm going to take posession of that nation, and use some of its characters and ideas as a basis for this new state, if nobody decides to stop my madness :D

[Reads Word document]

I'd get to use names like, "Pongrok" on top of Adiatorix and Getafix, heh-heh.

Of course, this does mean that I've got to use words like, "Catholicon", and have a centurion (old chap, not officer for eighty legionaries) head of state, but I'm sufficiently full of South African wine to think that it's a fun idea.

What else is here? Harvest Festival... yellow... vegetables... Czar... butter... probably would have to drop those muskets, though...

Oh, hell yeah! AC, a super-leftist state next to me...yes! I cry with joy! (AC, TG me. I think we might just cook something up).

Ooh, ooh. "Back in the day",........

What else is here? Harvest Festival... yellow... vegetables... Czar... butter... probably would have to drop those muskets, though...

Oh well, the Prussian will have their day -someday-.

It seems that the rest of the Holy League is suffering distraction in the real world. I wonder if this makes my timing worse, or better, in proposing a short-term secondary nation attached to the organisation.

Hum. Either way, I've quite enjoyed reading the prior form of the nation I'd use if this happens, and trying to modify its history for AMW. I think that if it happens, probably it'll cover Belgium, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands, making it the smallest independent League nation, and sufficiently remote from the Commonwealth that I may not have to worry too much about kicking my own arse. Plus the flagmaking, that's always fun.

If I don't do this, I'm going to run out of things to distract me from worrying how I'm going to buy... food (yess, food..) once I pay for tickets and insurance and shit like that!

Im waiting on the Polisario Player, the geography and my lack of transport ships prevents me from carrying out my west african plans until hes out of the way, so when is he going to post?

I'm still on vacation, but the hotel has a pc in the lobby

I'd apreciate it if someone could reply to my posts in the Southern Confederacy thread, I noticed Moorington did already, I will prbly have a chance to reply to them late today


and these new nations sound great, add a lot more variety to the AMW world.

Greetings to the denizens of AMW!

I've just come back from a "self-imposed exile" of sorts from NS, and I'm trying to get back into the RP scene. I've seen and heard a lot about AMW, and I've actually been encouraged by a friend of mine in AMW to apply to join for some time now, and now I'm finally taking his advice. I've come up with some ideas for the country I'd like to play as, and I've discussed those ideas with my friend in AMW. They apparently seemed fine to him, but I figured I'd just make my first post here and figure out specifically what I need to do to get in before I start flooding this thread with my ideas. The major prerequisite I'm aware of is proof of RPing skills and/or being vouched for by at least two current AMW members. I believe there are two members who have seen my RPing who will vouch for me, though I will gladly provide examples of my RPing (albeit older examples, as I was largely inactive on I.I. from about mid-April until a few days ago) upon request. If there are any others, I will do my best to meet them.

Thanks in advance!

What sort of Nation did you have in mind, Halberdgardia, and which two Nations are supporting you?

And finally: Are you Pro-Roycelandian Empire, or Anti-Roycelandian Empire? :-P

What sort of Nation did you have in mind, Halberdgardia, and which two Nations are supporting you?

And finally: Are you Pro-Roycelandian Empire, or Anti-Roycelandian Empire? :-P

Nope, are you capitlist or communist? The real nity-gritty is are your pro-Austrian or anti-Federacy.

What are your views on the Christian faith? That is what shoudl be discussed here. LOL!

WWJD
Amen.

And to put an end to the slightly inane questions ...

Actually, I do have a reason for posting. I floated the idea earlier today on the AMW region message board of running another nation, small, corrupt Middle Eastern Emirate. After recieving guarded support, I thought I'd toss it into the fray.

Now I know, I'm already Australasia, a country with which I'm quite happy. But this nation would be totally independant of Australasia, monarchistic, rich in oil and somewhat oppressive. Have you ever seen the movie Syriana? That's sort of what I'm thinking of.

General outline:
Genericstan (I'm calling it that for now, will change later) is a small, oil rich nation in the Middle East. It is ruled by Emir somethingorother, an ageing and morally corrupt autocrat. His sons have been educated at the finest universities in the world, have been tutored in governance by aides to their father and hold important positions in government.

One son, the eldest, shows now desire to have anything more than all the girls he'd ever want, and heaven when he dies. He lives in a sumptuous pleasure palace and occasionally dispenses lavish gifts on the poorest people in Genericstan. He holds the nominal post of Prime Minister, but his duties are carried out by his Chief of Staff.

The middle son is seen as the likely heir to the throne. He has served his father well as Interior Minister, showing a keen mind and a willingness to rule with an iron fist. Under his authority, the Secret Police has kept a remarkable degree of law and order by the use of strongman tactics. He is universally hated, but universally feared.

The youngest son is the black sheep of the family. He is an atheist in a Muslim nation, a student of the European Enlightenment and a believer in democratic rule. He sees opportunities to increase the wealth of his nation by the judicious application of oil resources, and has a small but loyal following among the people. He is currently in exile in Hindustan (picked a democratic country at random. Maybe Southern Confederacy. Maybe Quinntonia or Walmington. Whatever). He is hunted by the secret police, and seen as a threat by the middle brother and father alike. The youngest brother is working closely with intelligence agencies in an attempt to have his brother and father removed, but has thus far met with little success.

Genericstan won't be involved in the current war, won't have close trade ties with Australasia, and will be something of a sideshow. It might be fun to have a place for the CIA, MI6 and whomever else to do their cloak and dagger stuff while the rest of the world is fighting a war. As a last note, if I'm greeted with a resounding 'no', I won't mind. It was just a random idea.

Thoughts?

Well, Gurg, I think that Yemen, the UAE, and Oman are the only ME nations with oil that aren't claimed as yet.

Being as I'm hoping to play a secondary nation for a few months, I'm not about to be the first to oppose your new idea on those grounds. I think that so long as you only took one or two of those three nations, leaving at least some ME territory for new players, it should be to AMW's benefit to have another active nation there, and one with resources significant to the current global struggles.

Of course, it won't much help the Europeans, but UE, the ISC, and Armand's new nation, and possibly Roycelandia will be well placed to pressure your little state.

I think we'd have to wait for a wider range of opinions on what bits of the ME you could take. The UAE has a tiny population, but an absolutely massive ammount of oil. Yemen has quite a large population relative to the others, and actually more than Australia, and the smallest oil reserves of the three. Oman has a small populace and an intermediate quantity of oil.

But there's some history with some of the nations there, about which someone else will have to comment. I was never interested in it, for some reason.

Halberdgardia... do I recognise you from some depth of NS antiquity? I don't know, maybe I'm thinking of someone else. Yeah, well, tell us a little about what sort of thing you'd like to do, I suppose!

Me... well, I think that I'm really going to try this second nation thing, and may go and post -with the nation I've received and reactivated (the pw turned out to be right, huzzah)- an introduction/factbook thread, which doesn't have to mean that the idea is accepted. I'm just a little bored, and it's a break from designing strengths and flaws into the Soviets' first battleships :) So, I'm going to try it, and don't panic if you see it and think I'm just trampling over anyone else's opinions and starting a new nation without being accepted: I enjoy just working-up the nation even if it doesn't end up being used, and I'll still accept it if the community doesn't want me having such a nation. Maybe it can cause some trouble on behalf of the HL while other players are distracted/inactive, and then collapse in a few months when I bugger off to Aus.

Well, Gurg, if you play your cards right Genericstan could very well find itself with a limitless supply of Lee-Enfields, Vickers Guns, and Spitfires, courtesy of your local friendly Roycelandian Empire :D

BG here.

And here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=489977) is a thread about the possible AMW nation of Tulgary. It's not done, yet, but already gives a feeling of what I'd be doing if AMW likes/doesn't-care-about this idea with the Bénélux nations.

Gah, BG, which Tulgary are you? There are three seperate factbooks!

Hee, yeah. I'll have to log back in and de-link the obsolete ones, I suppose.

There, hopefully...

Gurg...I was going to have the UAE, Oman, and Yemen for my nation. :p

What sort of Nation did you have in mind, Halberdgardia, and which two Nations are supporting you?

And finally: Are you Pro-Roycelandian Empire, or Anti-Roycelandian Empire? :-P

Since the answer to the first question will be somewhat lengthy, I'll answer the other two first. I believe that The Macabees and Armand will vouch for my RPing skills, though if they don't, I can provide examples. As for my country's attitude towards the Roycelandian Empire, we'll probably be largely neutral in the myriad conflicts going on right now, and perhaps we'll even join the Non-Aligned Movement. However, there is a possibility of establishing ties with the Roycelandian government; it just depends on if it's advantageous or not. Nothing against you, of course.

As for my country's outline, I'll put it at the bottom of this post, so everyone can easily reference it.

Nope, are you capitlist or communist? The real nity-gritty is are your pro-Austrian or anti-Federacy.

We're capitalists...filthy capitalist pigs. (Ironic, since we're mostly Muslims. :p)

What are your views on the Christian faith? That is what shoudl be discussed here. LOL!

WWJD
Amen.

IRL, I'm a fairly devout Catholic, but that doesn't really have an effect on my political views, both IRL or in NS. My country will be primarily Islamic, but might have a Christian minority (I'm still thinking about whether or not to include it).

Halberdgardia... do I recognise you from some depth of NS antiquity? I don't know, maybe I'm thinking of someone else. Yeah, well, tell us a little about what sort of thing you'd like to do, I suppose!

Quite possibly. This is my primary nation, and my join date is accurate, so I haven't been around too long. I've read a few AMW threads, and seen your name and your posts in a lot of them, so I recognize your name, but I can't for the life of me remember where you might have seen my posts, since I can't remember seeing you in any NS Earth RPs. Do you have any idea of a time frame when you might have seen my posts before?

And now, here's the details of my as-yet-unnamed country.

The country is comprised of present-day United Arab Emirates, Oman, and Yemen (may simply be called “United Arab Emirates,” only with more territory), with a RL combined population of 27,161,130. This number would be vastly increased in the years following the unification of the country as people from neighboring nations sought to enjoy the skyrocketing standard of living—funded largely by oil and gas sales—in the newly-unified and modernizing nation.

The capitol of the nation is located in Dubai (in present-day UAE).

The country has a mixed population of ethnic Arabs and Caucasians, the latter being a remnant of the colonial era of the country, when it was controlled by the British.

A possible backstory for unification: the UAE annexed its neighbor Oman after the Omani government collapsed and the country dissolved into anarchy; after consolidating its control over the former Oman, the expanded UAE army invaded Yemen, citing “the liberation of the Yemeni people” from the corrupt dictator ruling the country as justification. The Yemeni people, long dissatisfied with government corruption and poor standards of living, seized the opportunity of the UAE invasion to rise up against the Yemeni army and helped the UAE armed forces to prevail, though at great cost to the Yemeni rebels.

The resulting nation is a moderate Islamic federal republic, largely based off the UAE’s system, with some changes.

Some considerations for government:

-- Perhaps more emirates in the former Oman and Yemen?

-- Bicameral legislative branch, can change and veto legislation; has representatives from former Oman and Yemen as well as UAE

-- Keep federal court system with secular courts for criminal, civil, and commercial affairs, and Islamic courts for family and religious disputes

-- Eliminate post of President; Prime Minister is chief of state and head of government, with a Deputy Prime Minister to serve as his subordinate

-- Retain Council of Ministers to act as a Cabinet

-- Eliminate Federal Supreme Council as “highest constitutional authority”; bicameral legislative branch will handle that position

The nation is very rich in oil and natural gas, as the below statistics show:

UAE oil reserves: 97.8 billion barrels
UAE gas reserves: 6.006 trillion cubic meters
Oman oil reserves: 6.1 billion barrels
Oman gas reserves: 829.1 billion cubic meters
Yemen oil reserves: 4.37 billion barrels
Yemen gas reserves: 487.6 billion cubic meters
——————————————————————–
Total oil reserves: 108.27 billion barrels (roughly the same as Iraq’s reserves and roughly half of Saudi Arabia’s reserves)
Total gas reserves: 7.3227 trillion cubic meters (roughly double that of Iraq’s reserves and 778.7 billion more cubic meters than Saudi Arabia’s reserves)

The government, while not as antagonistic as some of the OPEC members were 1970s, is not above using so-called “King Oil” or “King Gas” diplomacy to fund modern infrastructure/public works in their less-advanced acquisitions (that is, the territory comprising the former Oman and Yemen), as well as enlarging and modernizing the new nation’s armed forces.

Well, there you have it. Hope that helps!

I don't mind, Hal. You're welcome to it. It'll give my foreign intelligence service something to do, maybe. I dunno... shouldn't post when I'm this out of it. The nation idea sounds good, is there any kind of resistance movement caused by the whole 'taking over Yemen and Oman' bit? Like how in Lebannon they had a sepratist group, for example?

Am I making sense?

I don't mind, Hal. You're welcome to it. It'll give my foreign intelligence service something to do, maybe. I dunno... shouldn't post when I'm this out of it. The nation idea sounds good, is there any kind of resistance movement caused by the whole 'taking over Yemen and Oman' bit? Like how in Lebannon they had a sepratist group, for example?

Am I making sense?

To be honest, I hadn't planned for any such groups, because I had assumed the Omanis would simply be glad to have a government again -- and one that treated them fairly, at that -- and that the Yemenis would rather have anyone over the old dictatorship that was overthrown. However, perhaps I could RP some Islamic extremists being opposed to the new United Arab Emirates (I think I'll just keep the same name) and organize to attack at a later time if my original idea is not deemed feasible.

Yes! Another capitlist, The Greater Federation of Austria's policy is stuck at Tafts, laissez-faire is still rampant and Dollor (European spelling, I guess, some added flavor) Diplomacy has been the main way of doing it -except for defensive purposes).

Anyhow, I will hopefully get some more work on the Silvarian Mark -last fixed currency in a real world economy- and just wanted to fix out some quirks and unclear aspects. Same goes with my military, so what? 115,000 NCOs and COs with 5,000 in supply and 10,000 being devoted to other non-groundpounding stuff. Airforce, 15000 to 5000? To make it easier I just may incorporate the little airforce into the 115000.

I would be inclined to say that instability and invasions in the area, on that scale, would be unlikely to benefit the UAE primarily, except as a proxy of one of the major powers. The Indian National Union would probably have jumped down the throat of a weak dictator, the Roycelandian Empire (already having Socotra) would easily over-power the UAE in an imperialist land-grab if it went unsupported, and if it went with support it'd probably end up a puppet of United Elias. That's if the PR Yemen didn't get Indian Soviet help to repulse the assault and turn the south of the peninsula into another Commonwealth state.

By this I don't mean to dismiss your claim or participation in AMW, I just have doubts about the method of the area's unification. Again I'm limited in how much advice I can offer by my inability to remember who did what where and when in the past in AMW (sorry!). Everyone else seems to be busy, this week!

So anyhow, over on Franberry's (Southern Federacy) Thread me and AMW China got different opinions on the quality of his plane and my plane (The Eurofighter). To get down to the "nitty-gritty" both of us think our plane is better and want to stop hogging all of Franberry's space and get to where it doesn't matter -as much-.

Is it possible to create an underground, revolutionary government in an area of land already claimed along with a guerilla warfare revolution and political maneuvering in an attempt to gain independence or some level of independence?

I ask because I'm interested in claiming Ireland within Walmington on sea [Walmington (or Britain)] and was hoping to roleplay with that person or at least find out whats the deal with trying something like this. I'm new to NS, but not roleplaying.

Is it possible to create an underground, revolutionary government in an area of land already claimed along with a guerilla warfare revolution and political maneuvering in an attempt to gain independence or some level of independence?

I ask because I'm interested in claiming Ireland within Walmington on sea [Walmington (or Britain)] and was hoping to roleplay with that person or at least find out whats the deal with trying something like this. I'm new to NS, but not roleplaying.

There is so many better things to do! Don't try some half ass Irish rebellion, get a country and bring down those Walmingtons (this is in a very OOC manner) ! Norway, Sweden, Germany (yuo won't get it but maybe a part!), Denamrk, Finalnd, Hungry, Romania, Czech Rpublic, Slovakia, and lots of South American places! Join, and be a capitalist ;) .

So anyhow, over on Franberry's (Southern Federacy) Thread me and AMW China got different opinions on the quality of his plane and my plane (The Eurofighter). To get down to the "nitty-gritty" both of us think our plane is better and want to stop hogging all of Franberry's space and get to where it doesn't matter -as much-.

Firstly, my apologies if I came across as quite rude on that thread.

Continuing on, the baseline J-12 can be considered slightly superior to a Gripen in most aspects of air-to-air combat. The J-12S which is a brand new airframe has a lower RCS than older versions, updated avionics, and superior radar capabilities at extreme ranges (>150km) which gives it "the edge" I was talking about. Aside from that, it is equivalent in all other aspects to the Eurofighter. This is essentially a new fighter, not something decades old. If my memory serves me right, the Eurofighter doesn't have the capability to launch a Phoenix or something along those lines.

Also replying to a point by BG, I'm sure you remember General Liu's huge military spending and his threats to conquer Chen's Taiwan. Like RL Taiwan due Chiang Kai Shek's reign, _Taiwan (The nation I played before AMW China) was forced to spend 25% of her GDP on defence due to constant Sinoese and Xiannese threats. Granted, this may not have been good for other government departments such as health and social welfare, but health and social welfare really don't matter as much during a state of constant war.

Much of the defence money spent since the reunification of China has been spent trying to develop ways of fighting using less money and less men. If you haven't read my factbook yet, you'll notice the PLA is in fact smaller than her Russian and Quintonnian counterparts, even Ukraine's army outnumbers the PLA.

Is it possible to create an underground, revolutionary government in an area of land already claimed along with a guerilla warfare revolution and political maneuvering in an attempt to gain independence or some level of independence?

I'd welcome some Islamic insurgents in Xinjiang or Taiwanese indigenous groups fighting for greater representation.

AMW China: The actual Eurofighter design is reasonably new, yes the basic layout has been more or less static sicne the early 80s but there have been a number of changes within the basic layout and if you really wanted to launch Pheonix from the eurofighter (allthough the better question is why you would want to do that when you have the arguably superior meteor) then it wouldn't be any more difficult than integrating any other RL NATO weapon although i would have my doubts about Pheonix being compatable with a modern stores management system and datalinks and i'm not sure if it would require its own dedicated data bus and control system which would rule out its carriage by any aircraft not specifically designed to use it, Early versions of HARM were the same but i think more recent versions are more easily integrated.

Halberdgardia: At one time or another all the nations at the end of the arabian penisula have been RPed and have interacted with each other toa degree IIRC with the Roiks getting involved in at least one as did the French so you might have a bit of digging to do to find all the relevant details.

Heh, yeah, if anything can be dismissed as decades old, it is the Phoenix. Totally outclassed by Meteor and its Indian Soviet peer L'Angelot Maudit.

Suddenly I have so much that I want to do. Besides unveiling the Utopia Class battleship, I now have an urge to make some sort of overview of the balance between strengths and weaknesses in the Soviet military... notably L'Angelot Maudit's pantsing of just about everything but Meteor, in contrast with our total lack of strategic bombers. But alas, I am twelve hours into a probable thrity-six hour bender, so it'll have to wait.

(Yes, this pointless contribution brought to you by waiting-for-the-bus productions. Sorry, carry on.)

I would be inclined to say that instability and invasions in the area, on that scale, would be unlikely to benefit the UAE primarily, except as a proxy of one of the major powers. The Indian National Union would probably have jumped down the throat of a weak dictator, the Roycelandian Empire (already having Socotra) would easily over-power the UAE in an imperialist land-grab if it went unsupported, and if it went with support it'd probably end up a puppet of United Elias. That's if the PR Yemen didn't get Indian Soviet help to repulse the assault and turn the south of the peninsula into another Commonwealth state.

By this I don't mean to dismiss your claim or participation in AMW, I just have doubts about the method of the area's unification. Again I'm limited in how much advice I can offer by my inability to remember who did what where and when in the past in AMW (sorry!). Everyone else seems to be busy, this week!

I can change it, if necessary; that just happened to be the first feasible backstory that came to mind. If you'll allow that much suspension of disbelief, I'd like to keep it. :p That said, of course, I can change it so that the unification occurs during this world war of sorts that's happening now, so that I have a plausible excuse for no one really noticing.

Believe me, the Elians would notice... their oil profits are rising and they've got nothing to do with them but secure the 10% of global fossil fuels they don't already have.

Seriously though, United Elias is the major regional power of the Middle East, so his support/opinion on a proposal for the area ought be weightier than most. I was surprised he didn't comment on acceptance of Morocco, which was firmly in the UE sphere as an NPC. Does anyone know if he's off on vacation or somesuch?

The Low Countries are still open along with Italy.....

So United Elias has protested about me joining, its a bit late in the day for that isnt it?

Believe me, the Elians would notice... their oil profits are rising and they've got nothing to do with them but secure the 10% of global fossil fuels they don't already have.

Seriously though, United Elias is the major regional power of the Middle East, so his support/opinion on a proposal for the area ought be weightier than most. I was surprised he didn't comment on acceptance of Morocco, which was firmly in the UE sphere as an NPC. Does anyone know if he's off on vacation or somesuch?

I was under the impression he was indeed inactive, or so Armand told me; beyond that, I don't know anything. I'm hoping UE doesn't eat me alive if and when my country gets off the ground. :p

While I'd normally wait for UE's input, the fact of the matter is that he's been away for an extremely long time, and it'd be unfair to have Halbergardia have to wait for him. Additionally, I'd say several states in the world would have an interest in allowing a non-UE source of oil to survive...Many states, like Quinntonia and China, already rely heavily on UE, and it's unlikely they want to give one state even more power over them.

As for the previous history...let's be honest. No one remembers what happened, and the threads were deleted a long time ago anyhow.

Ok, will do a type up of my TC-3 soon (which is more in line with the AIM-255 than the Phoenix). The point I'm trying to make is that the J-12S has long range capability that the Eurofighter does not.

Eurofighter has Meteor, did several of us already say that/Walmington use it to devestate HL aircraft? It's a completely different proposition to AMRAAM et cetera.

Guys, do we have definite word on whether Halbergardia is approved or not? I give him my stamp, so we need one more. And what's UE's opinion?

China, do you have AMRAAMS (or equvalent) or better for sale/production rights?

cuz Im gonna need missiles for my new planes

OOC: It may be better to RP a diplomat summit between our two nations to sort out all our military sales and more. China has the TC-5, which is an AMRAAM equivalent, and is on the verge of flicking the TC-5B into production which will give thrust-vectoring and a whole range of other upgrades.

snip
Sorry to thread-jack folks, but I wish you a warm welcome back Halberdgardia, from your old friend SEA!

And just to give you a nudge, you have orders to confirm in your Knighthawk thread of yours....

OOC: It may be better to RP a diplomat summit between our two nations to sort out all our military sales and more. China has the TC-5, which is an AMRAAM equivalent, and is on the verge of flicking the TC-5B into production which will give thrust-vectoring and a whole range of other upgrades.
OOC: Yeah, an RP summit might be a good idea, feel free to start one, or just post in my nation thread

GUYS! Is Hal in or not? And UE promised to stop dissappearing and he's done it again...

(BG, again)

I don't have any objection to Hal. per se, just a few reservations that are largely for the sake of other players yet to state a position.

I really don't think that the basic two-stamps and you're in thing is quite right anymore, if it ever was. There's enough players, now, that two can be serious out-voted, anyway, and the approval of Strathdonia and France for a communist enclave in the Amazon Basin wouldn't count for much next to reservation from Neo-Anarchos and Australasia [random examples to illustrate point]. Meh, anyway...

...yeah, we kinda need UE's input on the nature of Hal's claim, though (unless he unexpectedly has inside information indicating bad RP or something) I don't think there's much question of him being reasonably able to say no to the claim, just perhaps the history of it. If UE is not available for some time, then a few opinions from players better informed than myself might be nice on clearing-up what sort of legacy Hal. stands to inherit.

I know that UE's been a bit distant, but, heck, who's consistently here besides myself and hardly one or two others (and I'm likely leaving in a couple of months)? Q., France, Gurg., Tias, Mac., and others either are away or have recently been, for extended periods. The one major down-side of AMW vs. the rest of NS!

With that in mind, I'd also like to give a nudge to my Tulgarian proposal, though I recognise that France's input would be nice on that. If I'm likely to be around quite consistently for the next couple of months, at least Tulgary could make minor representations on the part of the thinly-represented HL-bloc. (Do we know what called our France away? I think that I may have missed something, as he's been gone for more than a week...)

Okeh, how about we give UE...four days to respond? I know UE's been gone, but Hal's eager to join in and it'd be unfair to have us wait because UE's not responsive. (And I've already TGed UE) I understand being busy, but UE promised to be more responsive, which he hasn't lived up to.

I'd say several states in the world would have an interest in allowing a non-UE source of oil to survive...Many states, like Quinntonia and China, already rely heavily on UE, and it's unlikely they want to give one state even more power over them.

As for the previous history...let's be honest. No one remembers what happened, and the threads were deleted a long time ago anyhow.

I'd say that to! Austria and myself personnaly is just wanting to stay to the sidelines and complain every now and again about Spain disappearing and the lack of any real powers in Germany or Scadinavia, or in central Europe for that matter.

I never had "a stamp" anyhow and can't really ventue out there.

I'm here almost all the time too, you know! (Not that anyone ever notices, except when I try and enlarge the Roycelandian Empire a wee bit :D)

I'm here almost all the time too, you know! (Not that anyone ever notices, except when I try and enlarge the Roycelandian Empire a wee bit :D)

When you mean a wee bit you probably mean the whole of the Congo down to South Africa? ;) A bit more is the whole continent, don't lie, we know the truth :p .

Moorington, the Combine can't be listed on your stock exchange because it's entirely communist.

However, Nigerian businesses would happily join your exchange. In fact, I think it's a great idea you've got going there...an AMW stock exchange would be very interesting.

Some major Nigerian corporations for you:

Crazy Ivan Petroleum and Natural Gas, Nigerian Division
Delta Oil and Gas
Royal Star (Diamonds)
Tsarsoft (Software)

Moorington, the Combine can't be listed on your stock exchange because it's entirely communist.

However, Nigerian businesses would happily join your exchange. In fact, I think it's a great idea you've got going there...an AMW stock exchange would be very interesting.

Some major Nigerian corporations for you:

Crazy Ivan Petroleum and Natural Gas, Nigerian Division
Delta Oil and Gas
Royal Star (Diamonds)
Tsarsoft (Software)

Good to hear! I wonder if I should start a thread devoted to FIA? Oh well, until further notice I will just add you to the Austrian Diplomatic Thread and change major corporations to listed corporations. Now just need The Southern Confederacy (Looks meaningfully at Franberry).

Hm... looks like an interesting idea. I like it. :) I was wondering, could I be Germany and Denmark? Or if that's not possible, could I be Germany?

I hereby endorse Space Unions request to join AMW.

Umm...no, that's not how you do it. Generally we need RP samples first.

Umm...no, that's not how you do it. Generally we need RP samples first.

You do? Hm... okay. :) How many? Is any type fine?

Oh sorry, i forgot that because i didnt think there would be any real problem on that front

Here are three RPing examples. That should be enough but if it isn't, I'll get more for you guys. Note, I haven't been in a war in a long time (last time I was, I didn't RP that well yet), so none of these are war RPs.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=452367
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=454111
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=459799

Here are three RPing examples. That should be enough but if it isn't, I'll get more for you guys. Note, I haven't been in a war in a long time (last time I was, I didn't RP that well yet), so none of these are war RPs.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=452367
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=454111
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=459799


Interesting, as Austria I think you should give me a ear with Nova Gual gone and no other major European powers around Germany.

Maybe, I like the general idea of someone like yourself who seems fit for something challenging, not the usual Nation-Nation RPs of "Lets get together and destroy legions of our troops since it never reflects in our total population even if we use nuclear bombs and kill millions". Not that I don't participate in them mind you.

Sadly I am hesistant and even though I don't have a nice big rubber stamp (can you send me one in the mail;) ) for your approval I probably would leave Germany to someone else who I knew better and/or was more knowledgable about real-life country RPs which are at least a toal different ball game than contained RP NS wars.

It really doesn't matter either way, if you get in I'm of course asking if you want to contribute to the Federal Index of Austria, would you like signing a non-agression pact, and would you please keep the Autobahn open ect ect.....

If you don't, oh well, Germany is a big country and one of the best European nations to start off on. It just seems so big I would prefer someone with just "more", or maybe some deeper mind level is telling me that giving Germany away would shoot through the heart any Prussian state that wouldn't be an agriculture farmer nation.

Could I claim the folowing nations under the Central African Federation: Nigera, Niger, Benin, Togo, Bukina Faso, and Ghana.

I can get you all you need about the nation within a few days, population history ect...

Spizania... How much RP experience have you got, out of curiosity?

USSNA: No. :P

Seriously, probably not- they're either all taken or involved in a war at the moment.

How about an outline of the sort of Nation you had in mind, some RP examples, and some proof you understand the geopolitical situation in AMW?

Oh, and if you're planning on some kind of Ultra-Nationalist African Nation that wants Europeans off the continent, there's no way you're getting an endorsement from Roycelandia. ;)

Spizania... How much RP experience have you got, out of curiosity?
In these cases you just say; Either you're babbling, or you just told me in Cherokee that my scrotum is many coloured. ;)


Could I claim the folowing nations under the Central African Federation: Nigera, Niger, Benin, Togo, Bukina Faso, and Ghana.

I can get you all you need about the nation within a few days, population history ect...

Do you guys ever watch America gots talent? Well anyhow this weird guy with only a fake leopard shorts for clothing gies on with a blow up plastic guy. The British judge hits his little X meaning "Get off the stage" the second the leopard fruit gets on.

Different basics, same princeple. Another resounding no thank you, you would need Nova Gaul's (France), Armandian Cheese (Russia, Nigeria), Gug-somethin-t (Australia), and anybody else I can think off the top of my head. They all have a little (when I say little I mean 1,000,000) bit of their armies in the Togo area and are all shooting from the sea.

Kinda hard to suddenly walk in and say "nope, no battle, my land".

Scandinavia is still open along with Indonesia and Papa New Guinea.

Indonesia is Sujava and the Islamic whatsit. And Timor.

AMW is such a mess, at the moment, with all the key players dropping out right after they've done whatever makes them key. Sigh, I'm not sure who's going to sort it out, or how.

Indonesia is Sujava and the Islamic whatsit. And Timor.

AMW is such a mess, at the moment, with all the key players dropping out right after they've done whatever makes them key. Sigh, I'm not sure who's going to sort it out, or how.

I concur, Holy League- Where art thou!

USSNA: No. :P

Seriously, probably not- they're either all taken or involved in a war at the moment.

How about an outline of the sort of Nation you had in mind, some RP examples, and some proof you understand the geopolitical situation in AMW?

Oh, and if you're planning on some kind of Ultra-Nationalist African Nation that wants Europeans off the continent, there's no way you're getting an endorsement from Roycelandia.

Rp example, I have RPed on II for a long time, but I could dig some old Earth V stuff up I guess. But a lot of people here can voutch for me.

And I will admit, I hadn't looked into the various wars going on. Nothing was on the front page so I assumed it was inactive.

Anyways, if they are all at war ATM I guess I could just pick something else. Is Italy open?

If you're going to take pretty much any portion of Southeast Asia, you'll have to read-up on a rather hefty chunk of AMW history, so unless you're willing to take the reins of a country that's already going, I'd suggest that you look elsewhere.

That's really the thing nowadays...so many places have histories behind them, and it would throw a wrench in the works if somebody threw it all away.

But these are nations that I currently know of with no insurmountable strings attached:

Brazil
Paraguay
Bolivia
Peru (well, some, but considerably less than the rest)
Germany
Denmark
Sweden
Finland
Norway
The Republic of Ireland (or is it all Walmingtonian?)
Iceland
Fiji
Romania
Poland
Greece
Macedonia
Bhutan
Somalia
Ethiopia
Eritrea
Djibouti
Chad
Cameroon
Namibia
South Africa (although this would require approval from SSA players before anything)
Lesotho
Swaziland
Botswana
Marshall Islands
Samoa
Kiribati
Tuvalu
Federated States of Micronesia
Nauru
Tonga
Hungary
The Czech Republic
Slovakia
Bulgaria
Italy
The Netherlands
Israel
El Salvador
Nicaragua
Honduras
Guatemala
Costa Rica
Panama

That should be a more or less definitive list, there.

The Panama Canal Zone is still Quinntonian (US), anything in Central America will have Roycelandian or Neo-Anarchan influence, South America is very much Australasian and Southern Confederacy territory, and Israel is squarely in UE's sphere of influence- aside from that, LRR's list is pretty good!

Rp example, I have RPed on II for a long time, but I could dig some old Earth V stuff up I guess. But a lot of people here can voutch for me.

Such as?

Some RP examples would be greatly appreciated!

And I will admit, I hadn't looked into the various wars going on. Nothing was on the front page so I assumed it was inactive.

That's OK, we've got enough trouble keeping track of who's at war with who ourselves! :D

One other thing: You'd have to convince us you're not going to get bored of the whole thing in a month or so RL. We've had a lot of people do that, and it makes things very difficult for everyone- as well as building an unhelpful vague distrust of newcomers. ;)

Well in accordance to that list I woud rather claim South Africa, Botswana, Lesotho, and Swaziland under the South African Federation if I can be approved. And here are a few examples:

More current ones:
Link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11267236&postcount=7)
Link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10582875&postcount=1)
Link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10148987&postcount=1)

Is this enough?

Well an active South African player would be welcomed by those of us in the SSA area but there is more than a little regional background that would have to absorbed.

Histroically in AMW/SSA i get the impression that South Africa has ben seen as a pretty insular nation with little interest in what goes on in near by coutnries appart from selling them stuff (ie just about all of the SSA player have soem SA equipment, be it the Lusakan Olifants or the Strathdonian G-6 batteries) and that nobody has seen any real point in poking the slumbering beast.

Of coruse conditions in the rest of the world are at a stage where SA might prosper from leaving its shell. The inclusion of Lesotho and Swaziland is perfectly feasible to my mind if SA has managed to make itself pretty stable.
Botswana could liekly be explained either way, after all they are one of the msot stabel antions in the area and have been pretty much assumed to be the same in AMW as RL. Of course with the recent Absorbtion of Zimbabwe by the ANP the Botswanian govenrment might be feeling vunerable and at the very least be looking to bind themselves closer to SA.

A clearer picture of what you would intend to do as SA would help me make up my mind although it is currently thinking in a positive manner.

Macedonia and Bulgaria are part of Yugoslavia's federative republic.

Paraguay I think is part of the Southern confederacy, and part of Brazil is witihn Australasia, but Peru, Bolivia, and most of Brazil are indeed free.

Anyway, South Africa et cetera, yes, a decent player there would have potential to shake things up!

What history would he have to work with?
-British/Walmingtonian colonial period did happen, but probably some of the details can be changed if USSNA wants it.
-I think that apartheid and all that actually happened, right?
-The ANC may have been a little more left-wing for a longer period of time, reacting to influential revolution in Roycelandian East Africa, the threat of imperialism, and the radiating Indian-Ocean influence of the Indian Soviets, who, in Madagascar, demonstrated a preparedness to fight Roycelandian imperialism.

I think that Lesotho and Swaziland always having been part of South Africa is probably fine, right? As Strath says, perhaps Botswana could face pressure from Igomo to join the UAR, and decide instead to attach itself to this proposed SAF.

Well an active South African player would be welcomed by those of us in the SSA area but there is more than a little regional background that would have to absorbed.

Histroically in AMW/SSA i get the impression that South Africa has ben seen as a pretty insular nation with little interest in what goes on in near by coutnries appart from selling them stuff (ie just about all of the SSA player have soem SA equipment, be it the Lusakan Olifants or the Strathdonian G-6 batteries) and that nobody has seen any real point in poking the slumbering beast.

Of coruse conditions in the rest of the world are at a stage where SA might prosper from leaving its shell. The inclusion of Lesotho and Swaziland is perfectly feasible to my mind if SA has managed to make itself pretty stable.
Botswana could liekly be explained either way, after all they are one of the most stable nations in the area and have been pretty much assumed to be the same in AMW as RL. Of course with the recent Absorbtion of Zimbabwe by the ANP the Botswanian govenrment might be feeling vunerable and at the very least be looking to bind themselves closer to SA.

A clearer picture of what you would intend to do as SA would help me make up my mind although it is currently thinking in a positive manner.


Well, I suspose that there could be a regime change in South Africa that takes a more proactive approach. The inclusion of Lethoso and Swaziland are realatively minor and could of been done a while ago, while Botswana could, like you have said, joined with South Africa in mutual agreement.

I am going to read more about the political situation in Africa and I can give you a more clear picture of South Africa, but I plan on getting her involved in outside politics and problems. I also am going to try and reform the place and make it more modern, such as the building of some maglev trains with the possible assistance of Japan. I have no intention of becoming a nuclear power, even though SA did have a nuclear program and abadoned it IRL.

I honestly don't know whether or not Japan has such technology in AMW. They spent a lot of their recent history in a state of relative regression, and only now are really getting going, I think.

That seems like a very minor nitpick, and it may turn out that the Japanese do have those trains, but I wanted to reinforce the fact that even AMW nations that choose to represent real countries instead of totally fictional ones often do so in a way quite divergent from reality.

On Africa: the history of the United African Republics (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=463780) covers a lot... I was going to link other threads to help, but they all cover more than ten pages and I don't think any end up dealing with the same subject they started on! This one (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=401111) has become a civil war in Mozambique, though it is currently stalled like so much else, and this one (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=373970) started during a brief junta to your north, almost caused the premature outbreak of WWIII, saw the return of the old administration, the expansion of the UAR, and I don't know whether it's done, yet!

If nothing else, you're potentially walking into a less than stable corner of AMW.

(And yeah, hands off the Socialist Republics of Macedonia and Bulgaria! ;))

I should mention there's a Cape-To-Cairo Railway Line operated by Imperial Railways- a Roycelandian company.

The weekly train service is known as the Spirit Of Africa and can best be described as a cross between the luxury of the Orient Express and the utility of the Trans-Siberian Railway (ie, it's used by both the wealthy and people who simply need to get from A to B).

Of course, since SSA has never had a South African player, it's never been an RP issue... but if you're looking for a railway upgrade, you're probably better off talking to Imperial Railways than the Japanese- at least, based on what I know of the Japanese tech.

The thing is, Roycelandian tech has a very retro look about it (For example, diesel locomotives that look like 1940s Steam Engines, a self-loading rifle similar to the M-14 that's based on the SMLE Mk III* bolt-action rifle, a ground attack aircraft that's an updated version of the WWII-era Spitfire, and an Army that dress like Redcoats from the film Zulu), but we've got a highly advanced space programme, lots of Nukes, and some extremely advanced computing and other ultra-modern tech... Oh yeah, and an Empire... with Blackjack, and Hookers! And don't forget the Empire! :D

Where does the railway run? I can see it going through Egypt with UE's approval, and of course Sudan and either Uganda or Kenya, but then it hits the AC or the UAR, and can't go around them. If it goes through AC, it then either has to go through the UAR when it gets down to Zambia and then Zimbabwe, or it takes a massive detour for hundreds of miles to wartorn Angola, and then through NPC Namibia and possibly Botswana en route to the Cape. Or does it just go through the UAR and then either divided, war-torn Mozambique, or... war-torn Zimbabwe? [/curiosity]

Would you guys also care if I RPed out the joining of Namibia to the SAF? I didnt want to claim too much, but I would feel better if I did the actual RPing of it.

So when can I start RPing as Germany (and Denmark if I get it)?

Spizania... How much RP experience have you got, out of curiosity?

I posted example RPs when i first joined, ive been in about nine different wars and a couple of other bits and peices, but the problem is they never seem to finish, ive had precisely one war run to a satisfactory conclusion, others have been ruined when another massive player jumps in and deploys a force that outnumbers all others that are engaging put together. While others are dead due to inactivity

Just thought I should post back here to re-assure everyone that I am still alive and interested in my claim. :p

Out of curiosity, has there been any news from UE?

I also am going to try and reform the place and make it more modern, such as the building of some maglev trains with the possible assistance of Japan.

Funny that USSNA should mention this, since I was actually planning on doing the same thing (building maglevs, that is), probably between Abu Dhabi and Dubai to begin, and possibly into Oman and Yemen as well. Then again, I've been doing research on all the different RL construction projects going on in Dubai alone and I'm beginning to wonder just how many of them will be accepted in AMW...

Just thought I should post back here to re-assure everyone that I am still alive and interested in my claim. :p

Out of curiosity, has there been any news from UE?



Funny that USSNA should mention this, since I was actually planning on doing the same thing (building maglevs, that is), probably between Abu Dhabi and Dubai to begin, and possibly into Oman and Yemen as well. Then again, I've been doing research on all the different RL construction projects going on in Dubai alone and I'm beginning to wonder just how many of them will be accepted in AMW...

Hey, Hal welcome back. Haven't seen you in a long time. :)

We're still missing UE, and France, and at least one or two others.

It's making it very difficult to grant new claims.

Still, we're going to have to, or AMW will stagnate and die.

I think that Halberdgardia was probably going to be accepted, anyway? Perhaps we should let him get going so the Middle East will be at least partly alive again? Are we going to have to enforce a degree of failure/inaction/introspection on nations that would have meddled in his nation's rise? I mean, UE may really have intervened to stop conquests in the region, but he's just not done anything in AMW for months and months, so things have to move on.

On the USSNA, I don't know. Having SA played is good, and Lesotho and Swaziland don't really matter in the grand scheme, but I think that annexing both Botswana and Namibia to a new nation seems a bit much: SA is already a nation of forty-four million people (47.3 or something with Lesotho and Swaziland) and almost one and a quarter million square kilometres, with gold, uranium, and various other significant resources.

We might need to know more about this new South Africa before deciding whether it's proper for Botswana and/or Namibia to join, perhaps? Then there could always be a war for one or both of them, potentially pitting the SAF against the UAR or whoever disagrees with whatever the SAF is.

Germany/Denmark- I wonder, why do we always get interest from people who want to attach Denmark to Germany? Is it just because it's there, or is there some specific reason? It was the case with some past bid that came to nothing, if I remember correctly.

Well I attached them together because it offers me more coastal access and cities. Maybe its different for others, but that's my reason at least. I'm willing to just go with Germany if you want....

We're still missing UE, and France, and at least one or two others.

It's making it very difficult to grant new claims.

Still, we're going to have to, or AMW will stagnate and die.

I think that Halberdgardia was probably going to be accepted, anyway? Perhaps we should let him get going so the Middle East will be at least partly alive again? Are we going to have to enforce a degree of failure/inaction/introspection on nations that would have meddled in his nation's rise? I mean, UE may really have intervened to stop conquests in the region, but he's just not done anything in AMW for months and months, so things have to move on.

Why does the dammned Slavics always have a good agruement that I agree on? :p


Germany/Denmark- I wonder, why do we always get interest from people who want to attach Denmark to Germany? Is it just because it's there, or is there some specific reason? It was the case with some past bid that came to nothing, if I remember correctly.

For me having Denmark would effectivly make the Baltic Sea a German naval playground, submarines and the high seas German fleet free to attack Swedish and Finnish coasts for later annexation/subjugation and provide a valuble defense when the fleet/submarines need to come home and lick their wounds. While this can be done on other parts of Germany the ability of having a vigouras Denmark defending your Baltic waters (Ports, Shipyards) from raidars is quite nice, and it provides more food than Germany probably makes in a year per month and has quite a gem of a capital city of Copenhagen.

Japan wouldn't have maglev trains in AMW, thanks to our beloved former rulers (thank you Ringists for the isolation and stagnation :rolleyes: ).

Hey, Hal welcome back. Haven't seen you in a long time. :)

Hey, SU. Yes, I was gone for a while -- on a "self-imposed exile from NS," as I like to call it -- because things were crazy on my end for a while and I didn't have the time to RP. But I'm back for at least the duration of the summer, and perhaps continuing into next school year, too.

We're still missing UE, and France, and at least one or two others.

It's making it very difficult to grant new claims.

Still, we're going to have to, or AMW will stagnate and die.

I think that Halberdgardia was probably going to be accepted, anyway? Perhaps we should let him get going so the Middle East will be at least partly alive again? Are we going to have to enforce a degree of failure/inaction/introspection on nations that would have meddled in his nation's rise? I mean, UE may really have intervened to stop conquests in the region, but he's just not done anything in AMW for months and months, so things have to move on.

I'll assume this constitutes a de facto "you're-in," then? There was one more issue I wished to clear up before my admission is sealed, however: I'd like to increase the population of my country.

The combined RL population of the UAE, Oman, and Yemen is approximately 27 million. With the blessing of the AMW community, I'd like to increase that number to 35-40 million, preferably the latter of the two numbers. I'd cite a huge increase in immigration to the new UAE, after it was seen how much the standard of living had increased in the former Oman and Yemen under Emirati administration, to explain the large boost in population.

Hopefully this is found to be acceptable, and if it is not, I can always revise it to a lower number, or use the 27 million figure and perhaps increase it over time.

Japan wouldn't have maglev trains in AMW, thanks to our beloved former rulers (thank you Ringists for the isolation and stagnation :rolleyes: ).

So does this mean that maglevs would be frowned upon, as the RL Japan precedence does not apply in AMW?

So.... can I start RPing or do I still have to wait?

Sorry Space Union, but we don't know enough about you to entrust you fully with Germany and Denmark. That would potentially disrupt the flow of power in Europe, considering it's one of the most powerful economies around. Is Denmark enough for you? Perhaps you could throw in some other Nordic nations?

Space Union, you need to tell us what Germany's history is and how it plans to interact with her neighbours before we can decide. It's not like Earth XX where you can just claim a piece of land.

Sorry Space Union, but we don't know enough about you to entrust you fully with Germany and Denmark. That would potentially disrupt the flow of power in Europe, considering it's one of the most powerful economies around. Is Denmark enough for you? Perhaps you could throw in some other Nordic nations?

What do you mean by disrupt the flow of power? I'm not one of those "OMG! L3t$ G0 !n\/@d3 3ur0p3!" type people. Sure I might do some wars and I will do military build-up but isn't AMW about the excitement of an ever-changing world? I doubt most people expect a nation to stay as one thing for ever. Some change can always be nice. Though, to be honest, I'm not going to start invading random people unless I'm threatened or we do some character RPing that sets it up beforehand. Add some dynamics to the RP....

That's my opinion on the matter at least.

Space Union, you need to tell us what Germany's history is and how it plans to interact with her neighbours before we can decide. It's not like Earth XX where you can just claim a piece of land.

Do you mean RL history or AMW history? If its the latter, someone could link me or I could find some threads that it was involved in.

Well, I don't know about the population change, but I can't say no right away, since I'm well aware that exceptions have been made in several areas, most notably the inclusion of the fictional Lyong peninsula... though that was because of Spyr's close association with founding AMW members and the unusual depth of development evident in his nation. Still, I'm not sure- the proposed state already has more than a hundred billion barrels of oil in a world on the brink of total war, with reserves in high demand (presumably high prices for most of us, except the communist/anarchists) and can likely afford the absolute best equipment and such.

Perhaps a fiddling with the demographics would be sufficient compensation? By this I mean claiming an especially young population (which several of the involved lands may have, anyway, come to think of it) so that very little of it is retired, a lot is economically active, and a large portion is eligible for military service if required. That's just a suggestion, maybe the community thinks it easier to just change the population, but I thought I'd put it forward.

On Space Union and the Germany thing... AC, I'm not 100% sure that I agree (don't hold me to that). Having a Germany would be good, and SU has at least been around for a fair while at NS, so he may well stay around, and at least we can chase him down if he isn't sufficiently active in AMW. And if we don't take a player who's new to us, where are we going to get enough people to stave off the plague of inactivity?

I certainly think that we should let SU lay-out his proposal for Germany, and so long as he doesn't expose himself as a loon (well, heh...) I'd be hard pressed to justify protecting Germany as some useless NPC blob.

Obviously WWII has to have happened (somewhat differently) with Hitler's Nazi Germany as the aggressor and the loser, and (in order for it to have been WWII) WWI also has to have happened. I think that the partition of Germany happened basically as in reality. Other than those fundamentals, presumably there's a lot of room to play with what the German people are like and how the modern German nation is organised and run since reunification, is there not?

So, unless someone's going to tell me that I'm wrong about that, I'd say that SU maybe should tell us a bit about what has happened to Germany since her 1945 defeat, and we can see what's what from there. I don't know about Denmark, I've already said too much, today. Maybe it will work as always having been part of Germany, maybe it will be felt that it should remain outside of SU's claim, I don't know.

To help with working-out what may have happened to Germany: the Soviet bloc started to crumble a little sooner in AMW (only marginally) because of a Ukrainian rebellion under the man who became Tsar Wingert, and today rules a vast Russian empire. France, briefly Italy, and more recently Spain have all experienced royalist restorations, installing Catholic monarchs in power. The Benelux nations have been talked about as a possible Catholic monarchy as well, but that's yet unconfirmed. Austria is a generally neutral capitalist party-based democracy, as, I think, is Switzerland. Poland is NPC and as in reality, but generally bows to Russian influence (out of sheer terror, probably).

Oh, and Quinntonia (the US) maintains military bases in Germany as in reality. You can try to end that in-character, but initially they're there.

We're still missing UE, and France, and at least one or two others.

It's making it very difficult to grant new claims.

Still, we're going to have to, or AMW will stagnate and die.

I think that Halberdgardia was probably going to be accepted, anyway? Perhaps we should let him get going so the Middle East will be at least partly alive again? Are we going to have to enforce a degree of failure/inaction/introspection on nations that would have meddled in his nation's rise? I mean, UE may really have intervened to stop conquests in the region, but he's just not done anything in AMW for months and months, so things have to move on.

On the USSNA, I don't know. Having SA played is good, and Lesotho and Swaziland don't really matter in the grand scheme, but I think that annexing both Botswana and Namibia to a new nation seems a bit much: SA is already a nation of forty-four million people (47.3 or something with Lesotho and Swaziland) and almost one and a quarter million square kilometres, with gold, uranium, and various other significant resources.

We might need to know more about this new South Africa before deciding whether it's proper for Botswana and/or Namibia to join, perhaps? Then there could always be a war for one or both of them, potentially pitting the SAF against the UAR or whoever disagrees with whatever the SAF is.

Germany/Denmark- I wonder, why do we always get interest from people who want to attach Denmark to Germany? Is it just because it's there, or is there some specific reason? It was the case with some past bid that came to nothing, if I remember correctly.

Well that was what I was going to do. I would like botswana though, but I was planning to RP out the inclusion of Namibia into the SAF. But this doesnt have to happen right away. I want to RP the modernization of the SAF first.

Hmmm...alright. Sorry if I sound overly cautious, it's just that as we AMW players know, we've been burned on the Germany issue several times before. Lay out your proposals and I'll give you a fair hearing. And I think USSNA's proposals seem good, but again, he's going to have to lay out a government type/general history outline. (If it's different from RL, that is)

Hmmm...I'm a bit less than convinced that Namibia would rejoin South Africa, after the whole SWAPO bit in the 80's. Even a majority-rule South Africa might not entice them greatly.

But let's hear your proposed history first.

On Halberdgardia: I'll admit I'm not really the one people probably expect to raise objections about population changes, as the closest RL population to Lyong's 85 million are the 3 million Russians in Primorski-krai, but I have to say that I don't think its a good idea. Sticking with CIA numbers gives AMW an objective basis for working out population numbers, and the more exceptions get introduced, the more subjective it all becomes. Is there really a justification for it in this instance that couldn't be applied to future applications as well?

In a roleplay sense as well, the proposed nation is surrounded by nations that have had prosperous populations for some time (UE in particular)... I don't see where massive immigration would have come from.

Err... while on the topic, one thing that might be done is to fix the date of Oman-Yemen-UAE union at around the time the Elians annexed Egypt. That would explain a bit why the regional superpower might not have been involved.

On Space Union: I can understand the two general points-of-view that have emerged here. On the one hand, we really do need to see Germany start doing SOMETHING, given the current situation both globally and in Europe in particular. The country really is, in an economic sense if nothing else, the big fish in the European theatre, and just having a player there to determine where they stand on things will make current RP seem more plausible. On the other, Germany IS the big fish in Europe, and a bid for a nation of its importance ought ensure a certain level of quality so that other European players don't see their current RPs invalidated.

Personally, I think Germany is a sufficient bid in of itself. We already said no to Moorington when he asked for Germany and Austria... it would be a bit of a double standard to now accept a similar bid for Germany and Denmark. That without Denmark Berlin will not be in an optimal position (in a naval sense, at least) is not so much a mortal wound as it is a limitation condusive to realistic roleplay (particularly if additional players can be found to take up the Danes/Scandinavians).

A final note on German history in AMW... when the Baltic republics were invaded by Estenlands and Russia, republican elements formed governments-in-exile. These would, if Germany was resistant to the emerging Holy League, have set up headquarters in Berlin. If Germany was favourable to the League, they would have retreated further, to London. After several years, their funds are undoubtedly running low, and if they survive they are probably a political puppet... who pulls the strings depending on recent German policy.

On USSNA: As with Germany above, it must be noted that South Africa alone is a regional powerhouse. While including Lethoso and Swaziland is quite minor, and a bit convenient as it eliminates the need to attend NPC governments for states that are unlikely to matter much, absorption of Botswana and Namibia seems to bolster an already-potent state while shutting down openings for further new players and for future RP. The major powers of sub-Saharan Africa (Lusaka, African Commonwealth, and the Roiks at the very least) all have potential intrests in the region which would seem to compete with both each other and the intrests of a newly-emergent South Africa.

On Maglevs: While Spyr can generally be considered to have picked up some of the slack left from RL Japan by Ringist isolation (electronics in particular, automobiles not so much, cellphones with cameras and GPS and 17" plasma screens of course), Maglev development in RL coincides with a period where Strainist spending priorities were focussed elsewhere. South Korea's RL contributions to the field are themselves likely to have been missed in AMW, due to getting pwned by the CPRD. So, I think it would be safe to say that maglev technology in AMW exists mostly as theory, without having seen much funding of practical systems. In any case, without the Koreans or Japanese plunking money into development, its the Germans who probably have the technical lead in AMW at this point in time.

In any case, without the Koreans or Japanese plunking money into development, its the Germans who probably have the technical lead in AMW at this point in time.

Well, Japan is plunking money into development as well as trying to attract hi-tech industries through tax incentives and the like, so we're starting to catch up. It'll still take a few years unless we get a major influx of industries anytime soon.

Well that was fun to read Spyr, amazingly grammer effecient, factual, and concise. All three attributes that I lack in their entirety.

Unable to be so decidly wishy-washy I am going to follow behind Spyr with "yeah, what he said" and hope that Space Unioun turns out to be relativly competent.

For the record, what Scandinavian Republics are in exile? Because the Austrian government would happily accept to house them in Vienna, or some Alps mansion.

Sad enough, this could be the last chance for a Prussian state, sadly without Bradenburg and/or (half of) Berlin the the Prussian state would be severly handicapped to Danzig and not much else when it comes to industry.

Everyone seems to be talking about some kind of train, it it some kind of nuclear run train?

MagLev stands for Magnetic Levitation.

There's a wikipedia article on the subject here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev_train

Otherwise, I agree with what Spyr said. We need new players, but it's a delicate balancing act at the moment, too...

I'm honestly willing to just go with Germany if that's all I can get.

On USSNA: As with Germany above, it must be noted that South Africa alone is a regional powerhouse. While including Lethoso and Swaziland is quite minor, and a bit convenient as it eliminates the need to attend NPC governments for states that are unlikely to matter much, absorption of Botswana and Namibia seems to bolster an already-potent state while shutting down openings for further new players and for future RP. The major powers of sub-Saharan Africa (Lusaka, African Commonwealth, and the Roiks at the very least) all have potential intrests in the region which would seem to compete with both each other and the intrests of a newly-emergent South Africa.

On Maglevs: While Spyr can generally be considered to have picked up some of the slack left from RL Japan by Ringist isolation (electronics in particular, automobiles not so much, cellphones with cameras and GPS and 17" plasma screens of course), Maglev development in RL coincides with a period where Strainist spending priorities were focussed elsewhere. South Korea's RL contributions to the field are themselves likely to have been missed in AMW, due to getting pwned by the CPRD. So, I think it would be safe to say that maglev technology in AMW exists mostly as theory, without having seen much funding of practical systems. In any case, without the Koreans or Japanese plunking money into development, its the Germans who probably have the technical lead in AMW at this point in time.

Well would I still be able to annex it at a later date? Bostwana was to play a role in the creation of the SAF, but I can do away with it. I would still like to have it and I am willing to just role-play it's annexation at a later time.

As for mavlevs, look like the SAF is going to be doing some research. ;)

Today I'm going to really read up a the history of AMW Africa. But the baisc plot line for the SAF forming was that with all the wars breaking out in Africa, these singular nations felt vulnerable and were brought together to form a more secure, more propsperous air to the region.

On Halberdgardia: I'll admit I'm not really the one people probably expect to raise objections about population changes, as the closest RL population to Lyong's 85 million are the 3 million Russians in Primorski-krai, but I have to say that I don't think its a good idea. Sticking with CIA numbers gives AMW an objective basis for working out population numbers, and the more exceptions get introduced, the more subjective it all becomes. Is there really a justification for it in this instance that couldn't be applied to future applications as well?

In a roleplay sense as well, the proposed nation is surrounded by nations that have had prosperous populations for some time (UE in particular)... I don't see where massive immigration would have come from.

I actually wasn't aware of the standard of living in UE, so I would have assumed from there. Or, perhaps somewhat foolishly, that we would have built up a nice European expatriate community.

Barring this, then, would a demographics shift like Yugo Slavia suggested (below), be acceptable, or should I just shut up and stop trying to mess with my population? :p

Perhaps a fiddling with the demographics would be sufficient compensation? By this I mean claiming an especially young population (which several of the involved lands may have, anyway, come to think of it) so that very little of it is retired, a lot is economically active, and a large portion is eligible for military service if required. That's just a suggestion, maybe the community thinks it easier to just change the population, but I thought I'd put it forward.

Err... while on the topic, one thing that might be done is to fix the date of Oman-Yemen-UAE union at around the time the Elians annexed Egypt. That would explain a bit why the regional superpower might not have been involved.

Works for me. When was that, just so I know? If UE has a factbook, that would help in learning a bit about his history, current statistics, etc. I did a search on the forums, and came up with something about his military, but no full-fledged factbook.

Thanks again to everyone for their help.

Well would I still be able to annex it at a later date? Bostwana was to play a role in the creation of the SAF, but I can do away with it. I would still like to have it and I am willing to just role-play it's annexation at a later time.

As for mavlevs, look like the SAF is going to be doing some research. ;)

Today I'm going to really read up a the history of AMW Africa. But the baisc plot line for the SAF forming was that with all the wars breaking out in Africa, these singular nations felt vulnerable and were brought together to form a more secure, more propsperous air to the region.

You're welcome to try an annex Namibia, but I can tell you it won't go all that smoothly... Gabon turned into a bloody mess, they're still shooting at each other in the Philippines, and the Zimbabwean War wasn't especially pleasant for anyone involved, either.

FWIW, I always assumed South Africa was a British Colony as in RL, which explained why Roycelandia didn't take it in the 19th century, and after SA become independent, Roycelandia supported them as a fellow "Civilised Nation" in Africa- although publicly condemning Apartheid, Roycelandia never enacted embargoes on SA, and so I imagine both nations did very well out of the resulting trade agreements and so on...

Just my thoughts, but do let us know when you've got a firmer outline!

Of course small indpenedent countries in southern Africa do have a idol to look up to and admire, Strathdonia is hardly the biggest nation around (despite annexing half of mozambique) and is seemingly quite secure in its independence.

Of course the society is actually fairly militarised and the more i think about the more Strathdonia is turning into the Isreal of Africa.

Historically speaking the Apartheid era would be interesting as South Africa didn't have to prop up Rhodesia just quite as much (since Rhodesia wasn't as fond of Apartheid as they were in RL thanks to the formal federation with the more progressive govenrment of Nyasaland (strathdonia)).

I'm not sure how much SA would have helped Rhodesia during thier last years and what thier take on the UAR/lusaka would have been to the gegin with although it obviously became an at least working relationship.

Do I have the green light to begin to RP Germany? If you'd like I can do this on a trial basis where you can evaluate my RPing and my direction to see if I fit the role of Germany or not. If you don't like it, I"m willing to go to another nation, but if you do I'll stay with my current nation. How does that sound?

I have a question, though. Would I be allowed to begin RPing after an election of a new leader (a guy that I want to lead Germany) to Germany?

Yeah, if I understand you, that'd be fine. A lot of AMW nations based on RL nations are still quite different: Britain in AMW is under a fictional royal line, the House of Walmington, and is on its third fictional government from its second fictional party; France started with the over-throw of the Republic, and so on and so forth. So much has happened differently in AMW that you're not really obligated to have any real Germans in your nation except for the key Nazis and possibly one or two major historical figures important to the shaping of Europe. There's nothing to say that Angela Merkel was ever born, or that she didn't just end up as a dinner lady at a Bavarian school or something :)

As you can see, we're still having problems with a lot of important players being away (such as your would-be neighbour, France), but I don't think it'd hurt to start, on a semi-official basis. I'd like Europe to get moving again, anyway. Looks like you're best-off just using Germany, though, and considering the limited ocean access a historical handicap, which most of us have at least a few of.

Yeah, if I understand you, that'd be fine. A lot of AMW nations based on RL nations are still quite different: Britain in AMW is under a fictional royal line, the House of Walmington, and is on its third fictional government from its second fictional party; France started with the over-throw of the Republic, and so on and so forth. So much has happened differently in AMW that you're not really obligated to have any real Germans in your nation except for the key Nazis and possibly one or two major historical figures important to the shaping of Europe. There's nothing to say that Angela Merkel was ever born, or that she didn't just end up as a dinner lady at a Bavarian school or something :)

As you can see, we're still having problems with a lot of important players being away (such as your would-be neighbour, France), but I don't think it'd hurt to start, on a semi-official basis. I'd like Europe to get moving again, anyway. Looks like you're best-off just using Germany, though, and considering the limited ocean access a historical handicap, which most of us have at least a few of.

So I could just import my NS nation's people and politics into Germany as long as I stick with their RL stats and such? That would be awesome so I don't have to remember a whole new set of government official names.... :p

Sure, but can you detail how it's going to look for us?

Sure, but can you detail how it's going to look for us?

How Germany is going to stand in Europe or are you talking about the ethnic and cultural outlook of the population? If its the latter, I'm going to importing my culture from Space Union, which means the population would mostly consist of Sikh ethnicity and some other mixes. This is a bit different, so that's why I wanted to clear this up with you guys before I begin. This is alright, right?

Interesting. Normally you can do that sort of thing -there's Celts in India, and things like that- but we still need Hitler and the Nazis to come from Germany, so I'm not sure what turning them into Sikhs would do.

Is there any particular reason for choosing Germany? You know, Bangladesh and some of the smaller northeastern Indian states surrounding it, and Bhutan, are still free, and not so important to the history of the world. They have a lot of problems that Germany doesn't have, but they wouldn't necessitate explaining a Sikh 3rd Reich.

Interesting. Normally you can do that sort of thing -there's Celts in India, and things like that- but we still need Hitler and the Nazis to come from Germany, so I'm not sure what turning them into Sikhs would do.

Is there any particular reason for choosing Germany? You know, Bangladesh and some of the smaller northeastern Indian states surrounding it, and Bhutan, are still free, and not so important to the history of the world. They have a lot of problems that Germany doesn't have, but they wouldn't necessitate explaining a Sikh 3rd Reich.

I'm a big aircraft fan (a lot of people can vouch for that ;) ) and I wanted to operate the Eurofighter for once so I thought I might pick one of the nations. Britian, Spain, and Italy have all been taken so I was left with Germany. So yeah, I'm willing to just go with a German people if you guys find Sikh people in Germany problematic...

The Eurofighter is effectively under Spanish and Holy League control, so it could be problematic obtaining the rights for it unless Germany is Catholic and monarchist.

No problems with Sikhs in Germany, would love to read the history of Sikh Germany.

We aren't normally too fussed about people appearing to be in the wrong place, it's just because of the historic importance of a German Germany, if I can say that.

Still, depending on what sort of nation you're going to run, you could buy or have helped to develop 'Eurofighter' without even being European. In AMW, the British have been at odds with France, Italy, and Spain for a long time, and have developed RAF Typhoon largely independently over the last decade or two, and don't call it Eurofighter, distinguishing it from what we of course call an inferior continental model made by Spaniards and Italians.

If your nation -be it in Germany, Bangladesh, or bloomin Bolivia- were anti-HolyLeague, it could have been part of that project, and, likewise, if it turns out to be a Christian absolute monarchy, it could probably have co-operated with those nations on Eurofighter.

So, you have options, anyway.

We aren't normally too fussed about people appearing to be in the wrong place, it's just because of the historic importance of a German Germany, if I can say that.

Still, depending on what sort of nation you're going to run, you could buy or have helped to develop 'Eurofighter' without even being European. In AMW, the British have been at odds with France, Italy, and Spain for a long time, and have developed RAF Typhoon largely independently over the last decade or two, and don't call it Eurofighter, distinguishing it from what we of course call an inferior continental model made by Spaniards and Italians.

If your nation -be it in Germany, Bangladesh, or bloomin Bolivia- were anti-HolyLeague, it could have been part of that project, and, likewise, if it turns out to be a Christian absolute monarchy, it could probably have co-operated with those nations on Eurofighter.

So, you have options, anyway.

Hm... interesting. Since I'm not going to be Catholic or Monarchist (I'm going to be the Federal Sikh Republic of Germany), mind if I maybe said Germany stayed with Britian on the Typhoon then? For now, I think I like how the setup is in Europe (having 3 unfriendly neighbors could make for some interesting RPing) and I'm going to give it a try.

Interesting RP game. I'm stiIl reading the thread but I haven't seen Scandinavia yet. Could I put in a claim on Sweden and Norway?

I'm going to have to say "No" to a Sikh Germany.

Sorry, I think it messes up far too much of the history of AMW to allow it.

Yes, I know, we've got Celtic Indians and European Caribbean-based Empire ;), along with an Australia that includes parts of South America, but really, if everytime someone joins AMW we have to substantially re-write the world's history to accomodate things, it's going to get nightmarishly confusing for everyone...

By all means make the Prime Minister/Chancellor a Sikh if you like (might be an interesting RP aspect!), but I don't think an entire Germany full of Sikhs is really the right direction for AMW Germany, especially given the geopolitical situation in AMW Europe since 1914.

Greater Ys, you need to provide some RP examples, along with an outline of how you intend to RP the countries you wish to claim. And ideally some sort of assurance you're not going to lose interest in three weeks, either. :P

I'm going to have to say "No" to a Sikh Germany.

Sorry, I think it messes up far too much of the history of AMW to allow it.

Yes, I know, we've got Celtic Indians and European Caribbean-based Empire ;), along with an Australia that includes parts of South America, but really, if everytime someone joins AMW we have to substantially re-write the world's history to accomodate things, it's going to get nightmarishly confusing for everyone...

By all means make the Prime Minister/Chancellor a Sikh if you like (might be an interesting RP aspect!), but I don't think an entire Germany full of Sikhs is really the right direction for AMW Germany, especially given the geopolitical situation in AMW Europe since 1914.

Greater Ys, you need to provide some RP examples, along with an outline of how you intend to RP the countries you wish to claim. And ideally some sort of assurance you're not going to lose interest in three weeks, either. :P

Alright, I'll just go with the flow. ;) Anyways, I'll get some RPing up tomorrow as its a bit late for that today.

Well, if SU wants to stick with Germany, it might be possible to work something. We've already established that the Nazi era happened, so there's no need to worry about that. Perhaps post-war migration could explain something of it, if a large and politically dominant Sikh minority works for SU.

The Nazis were broken and shamed, Germany's youth was decimated and the nation divided and ruined. They needed somebody to rebuild it, and, at the same time, India was gaining independence and breaking apart, with war breaking-out between the various elements that arose. Maybe the Principality or other states identified Sikhs as an undesirable element, or maybe the Sikh community was just sharp to the opportunity in the new Germany. It wouldn't be hard to imagine tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of Indians being brought over, perhaps even by the departing British, to provide young labour in West Germany and prepare it as a bulwark against the USSR, in the late 1940s or '50s.

If they then declined to go home as India failed to find stability for years after, those tens or hundreds of thousands could perhaps have become a couple of millions over the course of two or three generations. Maybe the shame of the Nazi era subdued the German population in many ways through the late C20th, and the Sikhs, after rebuilding so much of West Germany, came to represent a more dominant class than is usually the case for such distinctive immigrants in Europe?

Possibly the Igovian Revolution of 1982 and/or the 1989 fall of the Principality and fresh invasions of surrounding states sent a new wave of Sikhs fleeing to Germany more recently.

Of course that may leave Germany with simmering discontent as the German population gets over its guilt and starts to resent the Sikh domination, but, eh, I like to theorise.

I can honestly see a lot of that happen. I can see during the 70s/80s a lot of Sikhs immigrating away from India because of violence against them that flared up in that period. Maybe a mass commuting to Germany. If this works by all you guys, I'm willing to run with this. :)

I would also have to say not just a no, but a hell no, to not having a German Germany. It is far too important to far too many nations in the world to even attempt to explain it. This is not even going to the fact that in RL, there are less than 18 million Sikhs world-wide, so even if you transplanted them all into Germany, and they converted one local for every Sikh, you are still not quite half the population of Germany, and now you are saying that there are basically no Sikhs anywhere else in the world.

If it is a Sikh dominated culture you are after, I would say go for the free Indian provinces. Germany must be handled very carefully, not just because Germany has the capacity for being very, very powerful and influential in world affairs, but also because soooo many other nations, mine included perhaps more than most, with Rammstien Military Base and the fact that over half my population is Lutheran, are affected by it. I would love to see a good Rper there, but they need to be able to shine while taking a considerable amount of considerations into account.

WWJD
Amen.

I would also have to say not just a no, but a hell no, to not having a German Germany. It is far too important to far too many nations in the world to even attempt to explain it. This is not even going to the fact that in RL, there are less than 18 million Sikhs world-wide, so even if you transplanted them all into Germany, and they converted one local for every Sikh, you are still not quite half the population of Germany, and now you are saying that there are basically no Sikhs anywhere else in the world.

If it is a Sikh dominated culture you are after, I would say go for the free Indian provinces. Germany must be handled very carefully, not just because Germany has the capacity for being very, very powerful and influential in world affairs, but also because soooo many other nations, mine included perhaps more than most, with Rammstien Military Base and the fact that over half my population is Lutheran, are affected by it. I would love to see a good Rper there, but they need to be able to shine while taking a considerable amount of considerations into account.

WWJD
Amen.

Well then, I'll just stick with the German Germany. :)

Well, in reality there's no Geletians, not two hundred million; and there's no Lyongians, not eighty-five million; and there's tens of millions of black Caribbean folk, not virtually none; and there's such a thing as an Uzbek, a Tajik, a Belarusian; and there's tens of millions of Kenyans, Ugandans, and Sudanese, not atheist Anglo-Latin Caribbean immigrants... so why you think there's eighteen million Sikhs I don't know. Honestly, for an obviously smart guy you do come out with some pretty bizarre lines of thought, Mr.Q =)

That's not to say that there aren't considerable considerations involved, of course!

Hello, I'm here to apply as Israel, here are a list of my references:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11259624&postcount=3
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11310221&postcount=8
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10387213&postcount=18

I can give you more, and SU, USSNA, and even Spizania can vouch for me on my RP skill.

Haven't done much in the way of RL RPing at all, but I can learn! And Israel has is a relatively easy history (as text's and history on the web is widely available) compared to other countries unless you guys have modified the history to a great extent.

And does Israel include the Gaza Strip, West bank, all of Jerusalem and the Golan heights? If it doesn't then I have some good plans already in my mind, if they are I have other plans on improving the domestic situation and foreign relations.

Oh, and does anyone mind a 50% increase in israel population? (would up it from 6.325 million to 9.487 million)

Yeah, I'll back TSS, he's a good RPer and knows his stuff.

It should be pointed out that Isreal is in a soemwhat different place to where it is in RL ie it has a very big and scary Islamic nation as it's main neighbour (or only neighbour, my geography isn't brilliant), but it is a very big and scary islamic nation that is rather freindly towards Isreal.
I am not intimately familiar with United Elias' back story but IIRC it has been a fairly united state for msot of the later half of the 20th century.

A choice on Isreal would have to be considered up to UE in my mind, if he is around.

He isnt around and controlling a major armaments producer AND a large part of the worlds oil does sound a bit greedy.
Is Sweeden an NPC?

He isnt around and controlling a major armaments producer AND a large part of the worlds oil does sound a bit greedy.
Is Sweeden an NPC?

The Swedes are indeed open, along with Norway, Denmark, and maybe even Finland. (I think, I did here something about governments in exile so who knows?)

Thanks all the people out there who said no to Sikh Germany, I like Germany way to much to have no Germans in Germany. Sorry, a little ecentric habit of mine but I like to keep al the ethnic minorities in each of their preourdained territory.

It should be pointed out that Isreal is in a soemwhat different place to where it is in RL ie it has a very big and scary Islamic nation as it's main neighbour (or only neighbour, my geography isn't brilliant), but it is a very big and scary islamic nation that is rather freindly towards Isreal.
I am not intimately familiar with United Elias' back story but IIRC it has been a fairly united state for msot of the later half of the 20th century.

A choice on Isreal would have to be considered up to UE in my mind, if he is around.

I assume you're reffering to Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt in RL? And I assume you're reffering to the taken Syria?

It shouldn't be a insurmountable obstacle once I get filled in on the situation. Also, does the US(Q) still support Israel?

Well, I don't think that we've much cause for changing Israel's population at the moment.

Anyway, UE isn't really Islamic, as a state. It's a secular government... but it is scary. If Israel tried bombing a nuclear facility in AMW Iraq, Jerusalem would either disappear completely or be over-shadowed by the colours of the Arab revolution flag within the day. UE is Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, et cetera.

I don't know how much the USQ cares about Israel. Can't imagine that the Jewish lobby is terribly powerful, but I could be wrong.

What's that UE up to, anyway? He logged in three hours ago, so he's not died or anything, at least.

(And I note that nobody's put in a good case for the dismissal of something similar to my proposal as to how Germany could have acquired a Sikh elite, though people seem to be assuming that SU can't do it. Confusing.)

1) Ok

2) So basically I'm surrounded by one big secular islamic nation? Eh, shouldn't be too much of a problem, I'm not gonna just jump into a war with a 'superpower' right away, not my style.

3) I meant support as in lets companies sell to israel, I was wondering this because the engines for the Merkava IV is made by General Dynamics, not to mention all the F-16I, F-15I and the Baz-2000.

I endorse TSS. He's an awesome RPer and an awesome guy. A great addition to the RP if I'm allowed to say. :)

Is AMW taking applicants? If so, would I be eligible to apply?

USQ does indeed support Jerusalem, and there is a very, very lucrative faith-based tourism industry going on. That means that Quinntonia gives aid money, about the percentage that Israel receives in RL (4% of government budget, I think) and is allowed to purchase any and all Quinntonian weapons and arms for a very competitive price, especially since UE probably will be willing to sell you arms for a steal.
Here are some considerations, though. I, and to some extent this is based on conversations with UE, have assumed that the government sponsored persecution of Christians in Israel and especially Jerusalem, where in the last fifty years the population has dropped from 35% Christian to less than 1% Christian in RL, was not happening. So, that offers a powerful dynamic, because the Christians that lived and still live in Israel were and are Arabic and Palestinian, and means that Islamic militantism would be far less a problem, because you would have almost a quarter of all Israeli Palestinians as Christians and just as much targets of Islamic extremism as anyone else, thus you would have an uneasy ally within the Palestinian community.

Now, if you decide to go with a closer to RL model, which would be fine, you will have to decide a few things. Firstly, that kind of persecution would not be ignored by USQ as it is by USA in RL, so you would have no trade deals beyond what everyone else would be competing for (and your neighbour and I have close relations based on oil, so they would get first pick for everything) and we would not support you financially nor sell you arms. WE would also have a history of pressuring you through UE and other neighbours to soften your stance against your local Christians, though our faith-based tourism would likely still be exploding.

And either way, I don’t see a reason for upping the population.

WWJD
Amen.

I don't see why not, Nedalia. Give us your proposals for a nation (location, sum of population, type of government), and be sure to read the whole outline at the beginning.

1) Wee! I'm supported :P This helps me with my planning, thank you.

2) Israel won't go about the religious persecution as in RL, Christans would be welcome, and assuming that terrosim didn't become big thing like in RL there would be little or no problem with Arabs and Palestinians, besides that that existed from the wars in Israel's earlier years.

I also plan to RP Israel as less of a Zionist State and more of a democracy with all religions free from persecution.

3) Could anyone give me a rough outline of the current situation in the Mid East, Europe and North Africa? Besides that which has already been told to me.

3) Lastly, if anyone asks, I can give them a rough outline of what I plan for Israel military and domestically wise, USSNA and Space Union already know most of it. ;)

Here's a good outline made by Lusaka. Ah, and please do give us an outline. And all of y'all, join "A Modern World" the region, so we can coordinate better. I think BG's right about Germany, by the way...Can't the Sikhs just replace the large Turkish minority?

African National Pact (ANP)

If you don't mind, I'll just introduce your to this group, since my nation is a founding part of it. Few new players of late, so this is the ANP for you:

The United African Republics (their people sometimes collectively known as the Lusakans, after the city in which their revolt against Roycelandian occupation began, in conjunction with anti-British and Portuguese rebels), being my nation, consists of Zambia, Tanzania, and recently-annexed Zimbabwe. Along with the African Commonwealth (Congo Zaire, part of Congo Brazaville, Rwanda, Burundi), the UAR completes the African National Pact, or ANP. Angola and Middle Congo are considered to be within AC's sphere of influence, and the Republic of Gabon is protected by the ANP (western Gabon was annexed to Roycelandia, the east survives independent).

Mozambique is split, with the central part being the RENAMO-controlled Free State, and the northern and southern parts FRELIMO-controlled Commonwealth. Strathdonia has annexed part of the west, and maintains sea-access through the middle. The UAR is backing FRELIMO against RENAMO in an attempt to quash the Free State and possibly bring Mozambique into the ANP, or possibly even the UAR itself.

The UAR is described as African socialist, and different states take different views on whether or not it is democratic. The AC is more capitalistic, and used to be very authoritarian but has relaxed somewhat in recent years.

The ANP generally tries to be quite non-aligned, but it is clearly biased towards the left bloc, largely because everyone else would rather re-establish colonies over the ANP nations. The Soviets actually maintain a military base on Zanzibar island, and the UAR declared war on France after its invasion of the ECOWAS nations.

The UAR is committed to African liberation, and doesn't put much stock in the sovereignty of African nations, viewing most to be the result of imperialism and neo-colonialist corruption. However, it will always help African peoples to resist European and other oppression. The AC is probably less idealistic and more opportunistic, and it is hard to say how strong the ANP's internal ties really are. Both nations trade heavily with Yugoslavia, and the UAR is a major supplier of metal ores to India (and, recently, of tea to the British!).

The Holy League

France is typically regarded as the head of this almost universally loathed organisation of autocratic, imperialist Catholic and Orthodox nations. France has invaded Algeria, and recently launched an assault on the ECOWAS nations (normally NPC nations which LRR is looking after), and in the past established a hostile military presence in the Philippines, conducted piracy against international commerce in the Pacific and Indian Oceans and surrounding seas, joined in the invasion of Lavrageria (Belarus) where it demonstrated a willingness to level cities, and did the same in Gibraltar. French agents were captured in Yugoslavia after the assassination of Prime Minister Gukov, a refugee from Lavrageria. The French state also executed the Protestant former Crown Prince of South India without trial, for a crime committed by his son. In addition to illegal invasions, carpet bombing, extra-judicial execution, assassination, and other crimes, the French state is known to use torture and brainwashing against enemies of the king.

The Russian Empire has the potential to be the League's bigshot, but often seems to toe a French line. However, the Russo-Ukrainian power has annexed half of Lavrageria (half remains independent but isolated), the Baltic states of Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia, Kazakhstan, and Moldova. It backed a coup in Nigeria and established a protectorate over that nation.

Spain has recently joined the League and gained its support for the bloody invasions of Gibraltar and Portugal.

Italy was a member of the HL, but is now an NPC state assumed to be passively complicit in League operations.

Depkazia (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan), run by the biggest crackpot going, recently moved to join the League, despite having a population mostly comprised of atheists and Muslims, but a coup attempt is under-way while the leader is in Rome talking about membership of the HL.

Roycelandia is not a member of the Holy League, but is an ally of France and has supplied the bomber aircraft that flattened Gibraltar. The Empire took posession of French Polynesia in return for helping the French militarily, and now counts the Philippines as an associated Commonwealth, though virtually no nation outside the HL recognises this as legitimate. Roycelandia controls Southern Algeria and part of Nigeria in association with the HL. Roycelandia draws much of its strength from a long-standing colony covering Kenya, Uganda, and the Sudan. The Indian outpost of Goa is now a centre of tension as the Soviets are demanding that Roycelandia leave the sub-continent.

Austria almost joined the League, and is now in limbo, invaded by Yugoslavia and unsure of which way to associate itself. Left-wing powers are opposed to Austria's current government but quite dismissive of its influence.

NATO

Formed by the United States of Quinntonia (America), Roycelandia, Hudecia (Canada, now NPC), and The British Federation (UK, now Walmington), this was supposed to be a defensive alliance, but started to fall apart when Hudecia became introspective and Roycelandia aided Britain's enemies. There may be some move to restore the alliance in some practical form, but at the moment it only serves to draw the US towards war with nations that oppose Roycelandia's aid to the HL. If India, China, the British, the Japanese, and others all end up fighting the League, it is hard to imagine the US maintaining obligations to Roycelandia's empire, but you never can tell.

There is no formal alliance of left-wing and other nations.

A confusing mess of wars and other armed conflicts

France and Spain are at war with Britain, Australasia, (and I think) the Indian National Union and Strathdonia (Malawi).

France is at war with the ECOWAS nations, namely Benin, Burkina Faso, Ivory Coast, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Mali, Niger, Senegal, Sierra Leone, and Togo (Cape Verde, I think, is in Roycelandian hands, and Nigeria is in Roycelandian/Russian control).

The United African Republics, namely Tanzania, Zambia, and Zimbabwe, have also declared war on France in support of ECOWAS.

The Indian Soviet Commonwealth is I think essentially in undeclared war with France, and possibly all of the Holy League. It is on the brink of war with Roycelandia.

Spyr and I think Sujava (essentially Sumatra and Java) now treat ships under the French flag as pirates.

China is involved militarily in support of the anti-League coup in Depkazia, which could cause conflict with Russia.

Yugoslavia (inclusive of Bulgaria) is at war with Austria and Switzerland, apparently because it felt threatened by the possibility of Austria joining the Holy League.

The United African Republics, the Indian National Union, and others are possibly moving to war with Austria over its attempt to maintain authority over minor overseas territories.

Depkazia and North Pakistan invaded Afghanistan, and the status of this conflict is uncertain in light of the Depkazi coup attempt.

Essentially, France is attacking everyone weaker than herself, as Russia has already done, and Spain is now starting to join in. Roycelandia does the same, but diplomatic technicalities have made it harder for the world to act against Roycelandia. The Soviets are fast losing patience with what they appear to see as red tape. The biggest single fight is France & Spain vs. Britain & Australasia.

I'm sorry that it's still so confusing: that's all Roycelandia's fault

That is a good outline. XD

Hmm, this lets me plan more indepth, yay! Oh, hey, what side is UE on? I assume friendly to NATO?

UE is hard to place. Mostly it is self-interested, I'd say. In the past it had good relations with the British and the Roycelandians (sharing Diego Garcia with the British and joining Roycelandia in the invasion of Gabon), but Britain's election of the radical Whig Party has possibly hurt relations a little.

I think that it has generally shown disinterest in political battles, and I'm rather inclined to see it in some ways as one of the more realistic nations in terms of foreign policy. The US is all caught up in religious motivations, and Britain is calling the Tories traitors, so we're light on Reaganite-Thatcherite imperialism such as motivates so many military interventions in reality: in Gabon, I think that UE demonstrated the same sort of opportunism that, in reality, saw the invasion of Yugoslavia.

If Israel were to introduce socialist economics and the US were to get distracted -perhaps by war with the Holy League-, I'd expect UE to knock down the door, open a few chain stores in Jerusalem, and then get out before anyone knew what'd happened. Otherwise I'd expect them to get along fine with Israel.

I really do hope UE gets back to regular posting though... not neccessarily relevant when just starting out, but the two of you would have to work out a lot of historical details, as the Middle East is about as distant from RL in AMW as... well, Asia I suppose ^_^.

Islamic extremism as we know it is an entirely different kettle in AMW... it has no Arab heartlands and no theocratic revolution in Iran, and UE made a point of stamping out Wahhabism starting in the late 1800s. In the modern day, Afghanistan is really the only state where Islam dominated political life for any length of time, until the fall of Bonstock saw an explosion of pseudo-Islam in Indonesia and Malaysia.

For Israel, United Elias was a supporter from the start, and was occupying Egypt (and suppressing anti-Zionist movements there)... meaning the Arab forces mustered for the historical conflicts (if they occured) are going to have been next-to-insignificant. Would Jordan and Syria (at the time, I believe by history introduced during Sabir's AMW stint, ruled by Kurds instead of Arabs) have joined Palestine in a war to terminate the original partition in 1948? With an industrial power at their backs in Iraq that had declared its support for the agreement?

More questions are raised... with an original Arab-Israeli war seemingly unlikely, and later wars even more so, what does Israel look like today? UE has asserted sovereignty over Jerusalem in earlier RP... perhaps only the eastern portion, I'm uncertain exactly, hopefully he can clarify so you can better know what portion would be included in your territory.

Of course, if the proposed state of Israel is less religion-based, perhaps the partition issue was resolved by simple re-unification at some later date.

There are a few other issues surrounding UE, not relating to a bid for Israel... AC's history for his new Combine states an Armand-Elian war occured, correspondent to the RL Iran-Iraq war I think, but I don't believe UE history ever included such a conflict. Have you two telegrammed out an arrangement here, or does something need working out before things establish too firmly?

Also, Spizania/Morocco. UE raised an objection to your bid for Morocco. I don't agree with all the grounds... he did excellent work represernting a plausible NPC Morocco but the more minds the merrier I suppose... but at the very least you need to actually post resolution to some of the issues left over from that period. When you took control of Morocco it wasn't a blank slate: the very structure of its military was being reformed under Elian guidance, aircraft were being sent to Arabia to get new radars, down payments were being made on new arms purchases from Elian manufacturers. Suddenly you come in and the money is back in hand so you can shop about for different arms from different sources, and the army doesn't seem to have any more vestiges of Elian organisation. You REALLY need to explain what the hell happened in Morocco to justify such an about face: was there a coup? a new king on the throne? were the Elian advisors asked to leave or are they still accompanying the officers they trained in command of Morocco's military units?

Hrm, while I'm ranting... a reminder to all applicants: one of the things we need from you is a bit more detail than just what territories your state hopes to represent. Who is in charge of it? What is its history up until this point? What are its priorities and how does it relate to its neighbours? Knowing that will help us both determine if your bid fits with AMW, and mention all the little oddities that make AMW history/politics/geography (in one case at least) different from real life.

I've read the outline and it all sounds fantastic to me. This is what I'd be interested in:

NAME: The Gold Coast (comprising of Ghana, Togo, Benin, and Nigeria. Nigera is coloured in the African map, but there is no mention of it in the RL nations taken post. If Nigeria is indeed unavailable, then Ghana, Cote d'Ivoire, Burkina Faso, and Liberia.)

POPULATION: GH, TG, BN, and NG - Approximately 155 million.
GH, CIV, BF, and LB - Approximately 58 million.

GOVERNMENT: Dictatorship (albeit as fairly popular one.)

HISTORY: I was attempting to think of a plausible way of bringing the 4 nations together, and the best way to come to my mind would be some kind of regional conflict, similar to the one between Guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia or the mess thats going on in DRC in RL (albeit at a fairly larger scale.) I haven't been to the forums so I don't if the region's history has already been RPed, so I will assume it is not.

Since independence was not won long ago for the countries I'd be RPing (save, ofcourse, for Liberia), the history probably won't be a complex issue, atleast not infront of the other regions in AMW. Since independence in the 1960's, AMWly there could have always been conflicts across borders, and indeed, within. This is not out of the realm of RL either; look at the Delta Region in Nigeria, or the cross border incidents between Ghana, Togo and Ghana, Cote d'Ivoire...or Liberia and Sierra Leone for that matter. This could easily be worked in, I would believe.

I will presume the year is 2006 in AMW; at the beginning of the year, Nigeria breaks out into civil war after the President elect (Obasanjo in RL, would be the same in the AMW history) uses his considerable influence to allow himself a 3rd term (a RL issue). With Nigeria thrown into chaos between many rival warlords and their factions, Obasanjo and his crew flee to Ghana, where they begin operating out of Accra.

Fed up with the Nigerian influence on the country, Ghanaians take the the street, throwing that country into chaos as Obasanjo directs the militia he has in the country to attack. Militias that have been pressed back in both Nigeria and Ghana begin to sweep into Togo and Benin, turning life into hell for the 155 million citizens of the region.

Step in Nedal Kafra; a rich businessman who hails from Kumasi, Ghana. While southern Ghana falls into chaos, central and northern Ghana remain relatively peaceful until Obasanjo orders his troops in Ghana north to take advantage of the lumber and gold mines in the area. Fed up with watching his people suffer, Kafra uses his fortune to hire an army to protect the city of Kumasi, which they do successfully. When other villages and towns around the area begin hearing of how good the people in Kumasi are doing and the protection they are being offered, they flee to the area and beg Kafra to liberate them.

One by one, Kafra begins to free up the area to the south of Kumasi as the area north become loyal to him. The more land he liberates, the more people join his cause, and he finally sweeps into Accra almost unopposed. At this time, it is Obasanjo's own militia that turn against him, and by the time Kafra's Army reaches his castle, he is found dead in his office.

From Ghana, they press into Togo, then Benin, and then finally Nigeria, where I would take over in AMW. Ghana, Togo, and Benin are calm and quiet; Nigeria would still be a hotbed of rebel activity (as it is RL-ly).

Ofcourse, this is only one option of going about things. I am absolutely not opposed to any others. Please let me know what you think. If indeed Nigeria is already taken, Cote d'Ivoire could replace it in the RP.



Im currently part of the Atlantian Oceania, and few of my RPs can be found there (www.3wide.com/forums). I'm also actively RPing in the World Cup 29 thread.

No offense but UE sured f*cked up middle east history.

There are many developments in Israeli history that depends on the many wars in the ME, first off, the Israeli army would probably still be fielding shermans, M48s, and Centurions in large numbers because the wars that nessecitated the development of the Sabra and Merkava would most likely never have happened, and US support for Israel would most likely be nil.

Basically Israel would be like almost every other nation with a tiny population, with a dismal economy and the IDF would still be fielding korean and vietnam era aircraft with dismal armored forces.

Basically what makes israel israel would be gone.

Anyway, UE needs to get on this thread, I needs to sort stuff out.

I had a question for Quinntonia and a few of our European friends (frustratingly enough, this includes some of those who are currently AWOL).

It is with regards to my military. I plan on continuing the UAE's RL tradition of a small, well-funded, well-trained, well-equipped armed forces. IRL, the figure stands at about 50,000 to 60,000; I may double these figures (100,000 to 120,000) to take into account the defense of Oman and Yemen, which more than tripled the size of the UAE, but those principles will remain the same.

However, there is an issue with the "well-equipped" part of that doctrine, because IRL, the UAE purchases a lot of advanced military equipment from the U.S. and other NATO members. From an article on CorpWatch.org (http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13332):

The United Arab Emirates (UAE) [...] is one of the world's most prolific arms buyers and a multi-billion-dollar military market both for the United States and Western Europe.

The energy-rich Persian Gulf nation is currently taking delivery of about 8.4 billion dollars worth of military equipment, mostly state-of-the-art fighter aircraft, ordered from the United States (6.4 billion) and France (two billion) over the last five years.

[...]

But an equally significant fact in the longstanding bilateral relationship is that the UAE is a vibrant arms market not only for the United States but also its allies in Western Europe, particularly France and Britain.

"The UAE (arms) market is definitely important to the United States," says Tom Baranauskas, a senior Middle East analyst at the Connecticut-based Forecast International, a leading provider of defence market intelligence services.

[...]

The delivery of 80 U.S.-built F-16 E/F fighter planes -- described as one of the biggest single arms packages to a Middle Eastern nation and finalised back in March 2000 -- is to be completed only in 2007.

[...]

Besides French Mirage fighter planes, the UAE has also taken delivery of about 36 British Aerospace Hawk 100 trainer/ground attack aircraft, four warships from Germany, and two frigates from the Netherlands. Additionally, France has supplied about 400 battle tanks in a deal worth nearly 3.8 billion dollars.

Now, given the differences between the AMW world and RL, I don't know if such deals would have made it over to AMW or not. So, I suppose it comes down to me wanting to know, from the players of those countries named above (those that are being played), "Are these deals viable (or canon, if you prefer) in AMW?" Since I might deviate from the RL UAE in purchasing virtually all U.S. tech for my armed forces, perhaps Quinntonia's answer is most important. (No offense to the Europeans. :p)

(Side note: My intro post, which I plan on making sometime soon, features F-16s and a pretty well-equipped army, so I'm sort of banking on an affirmative answer to this question, especially since the Emirati conquest of Yemen would make more sense if the Emirati army possessed advanced military equipment when its Yemeni counterpart did not.)

I see some interesting stuff up there, and I plan to be on to answer some of the questions that were posed to me, but I only have time for one thing.
In regards to Germany, the main reason I am so touchy about it is because if there is significant deviation from Germany in RL in pretty much any significant way, it pretty much completely screws my entire European policy as manifested in about two dozen threads going back maybe tow and half years.
As for replacing the Turks with Sikhs, that might work, but that is 2.4% of the German population, wieghing in at about 1,978,135 according to the CIA Factbook, and there is massive racial tension and problems with terror cells in that nation.

I just want to make sure that we get this right in regards to Germany bacuse every single thread that I have posted any kind of military movement in in the history of AMW that has not occured in and around SE Asia has included massive amounts of posts regarding Quinntonia's relationship with Germany.

WWJD
Amen.

Yes, you've mentioned Germany in that context, but since we're all agreed that WWII's essentials happened, and followed with the Cold War, allowing your bases, I don't yet see a big problem. You've not exactly had Schroder and Merkel around for beer and sausages in RP, have you?

So long as the Sikh-elite storyline accepts that Germany didn't block increased Quinntonian deployments during the brief Austro-Yugoslav skirmish, or, what, one or two other foreign conflicts in which neither Germany nor the US actually deployed operationally, and that the bases are still there (at least until RP agreement/force removes them), it should still work.

No offense but UE sured f*cked up middle east history.

Heh, I suppose thats what everyone ought keep in mind... AMW is based on real populations and real geography, but real history is out the window just about everywhere outside of Europe. And even there, while the re-feudalizing is a relativly recent occurence, you have the USSR ousted bloodily from the Ukraine and Belarus inhabited by pre-industrial nomads only a decade or so before the present day.

And Quinn, I'm not sure I see the problem... I don't recall any posts relating to NPC Germany that dealt with its culture, unless you're saying that USQ-German friendly relations were dependent on them all being proper white Lutherans.

Hell, to be a bit on the extreme side of things, I don't see why its an impossibility for Sikhism to have been present in Germany well prior to either World War... a sizeable minority faith becoming a majority by filling a gap in national consciousness following defeat of Nazism, perhaps (and giving a domestic presence that gives oddly better explanation for Nazi use of the swastika than 'that looks dang Aryan cool'). Even more extreme, a blue-turban wearing Adolf Hitler and the Nazis themselves finding original roots amidst the discontented Akali/Nihang sect elements in the Khalsa is not beyond possibility while maintaining the vital points of history needed by the rest of AMW.

It would be odd, certainly, but no more so than a dominant Geletian population in India, or all but a few North Americans devoutly practicing Christianity.

Its fair to ask new players to conform to existing RP conditions, and to major points of common history, but they ought not be denied the chance to explore new possibilities that differ somewhat from reality.

Is this still open?

If it is then I would like to claim the nations of South East Asia.
This would include: Burma, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Philippines and Malaysia.

If not, then sorry for interrupting the thread.

----
Here's the stats for my country:

Name: The Federal Republic of Indochina
Consisting of: Burma (Myanmar), Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, and Philippines.
Population:
~ 327,000,000
Government: Federal Republic
Head of State: President Noli de Castro
Capital: Bangkok, Thailand
History:
*I don’t know if anything has happened in Asia, so I may change this to correspond with your history.

In late 2000 Vietnam was in a state of chaos. The Communist government had been over thorn in earlier years, and the conflicts were poring over into neighboring Cambodia and Laos. After a meeting between these two nations they decided to take military action against Vietnam. But they knew their armies wouldn’t stand a chance against the Vietnamese Guerrilla fighters, and Vietnamese Army.
They contacted the nations of Thailand, Myanmar, Malaysia, and the Philippines asking for their support. Initially only Thailand and Myanmar would pledge support to the conflict, but with a little time and assurance that they could win, both Malaysia and the Philippines joined the conflict.
In the beginning the fighting was in the favor of the Vietnamese Army, but in 2002 the Cambodian Army won a major victory by taking Ho Chi Minh City. The Vietnamese Army was demoralized by this blow. One of their most symbolized cities had fallen to the enemy. With this victory Malaysia and the Philippines pledged their support.
By 2003 the advance of the United Asian (UA) forces had stopped at Hue. There the Vietnamese were dug in and showed no signings of retreat. The UA forces decided to lay siege to Hue and continue northward. A contingent of the Malaysian and Laotian armies were ordered to continue the siege at Hue.
From mid-2003 to early-2004, they attacked the defender by air and with artillery. The Battle of Hue began on August 11, 2003. After an artillery barrage of the city the Malaysian and Laotian armies sent in advance units to scout out a way into the city. After returning with information that the Vietnamese were completely obliterated, the Malaysians sent in two infantry regiments to make sure no Vietnamese were still there. As they entered the city they were ambushed by Vietnamese Guerilla fighters. Two hundred fifty causalities were taken including eighty dead and one hundred seventy wounded.
For the next seven months they encountered guerilla activity every time they tried to enter the city, but on February 6, 2004 the starved force of nearly seven thousand men surrendered.
As the Siege of Hue was being conducted, the remainder of the armies marched north to Vinh; this city was lightly defended and was taken without a problem. After this victory the armies marched to Hanoi, and started a siege. As they did in Hue, the artillery pounded the city and then small forces went in to clean up the rest.
The same resulted in Hanoi as in Hue. Guerilla fighters and Vietnamese troops were in control of the city. Just another three months after Hue fell Hanoi did as well. The remaining cities were captured or turned over to the UA troops.
Post war agreements were conducted in Hanoi with all members including a delegate from Vietnam. The UA couldn’t find a suitable way to divide the territory of Vietnam. So on July 19, 2004 an agreement was signed by the nations of Myanmar, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, Malaysia, Philippines, and Vietnam to unite under the name of The Federal Republic of Indochina.
Post war Vietnam, the scars of the war can still be seen today, but the people’s lives go on.
On September 23, 2004, Noli de Castro was elected President of The Federal Republic of Indochina. He was Vice President of the Philippines before the election.

TSS, I'm sure that, in some ways, the Ottomans would replace, say, Syria or Egypt in RL history. Always having ambitions to regain their empire, y'know.

AC - I'll get to the TG as soon as I can. Sorry for the delay.

Also, Spizania/Morocco. UE raised an objection to your bid for Morocco. I don't agree with all the grounds... he did excellent work represernting a plausible NPC Morocco but the more minds the merrier I suppose... but at the very least you need to actually post resolution to some of the issues left over from that period. When you took control of Morocco it wasn't a blank slate: the very structure of its military was being reformed under Elian guidance, aircraft were being sent to Arabia to get new radars, down payments were being made on new arms purchases from Elian manufacturers. Suddenly you come in and the money is back in hand so you can shop about for different arms from different sources, and the army doesn't seem to have any more vestiges of Elian organisation. You REALLY need to explain what the hell happened in Morocco to justify such an about face: was there a coup? a new king on the throne? were the Elian advisors asked to leave or are they still accompanying the officers they trained in command of Morocco's military units?


I reckon there was probably a new Sultan on the throne and he decided on a whim to reform back again, i suppose atleast some of the advisors are still there, although my break away from doing whatever UE tells me to do will have probably led to the recall of some of them

Everyone, just for the sake of simplicity and to keep everyone happy, I'm going to keep Germany German. I'll have my Chancellor and maybe some other government post a Sikh, along with a minority in Germany of Sikhs, but other than that it will be German. Is that fine by everyone? Once I get the green light, I'm itching to do some RPing. :)

Everyone, just for the sake of simplicity and to keep everyone happy, I'm going to keep Germany German. I'll have my Chancellor and maybe some other government post a Sikh, along with a minority in Germany of Sikhs, but other than that it will be German. Is that fine by everyone? Once I get the green light, I'm itching to do some RPing. :)
I endorse this guy

(dont know how much its worth, since im new, but hes good)

Here is my thread guys:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11346482#post11346482

Also, does the ANP have its own thread?

I'm going to have to say no to Zelron's proposal there. It doesn't really take any part of the region's history under AMW into account. A lot has happened in Asia, and it seems unlikely that all those nations would necessarily want to unite with each other, or even that they could all be conquered by a single power. So I'd very very strongly recommend you to start off much smaller. There isn't any reason to mash-together an ungodly number of nations in order to come out with dominating population figures.

Nedalia...it is important to remember that, yes, conflicts in West Africa have a tendancy to cause problems in other nations, but countries with functioning, and indeed republican, governments like Ghana and Benin, don't just collapse when their borders are infiltrated by unpopular, and generally untrained, gunmen. And that's not taking into account the fact that, presently, the entirety of ECOWAS is under attack by feudal France and Nigeria (oddly enough) is a Russian colony. Mabye after that side of things is taken care of, but right now I don't think The Gold Coast could really exist. If you are looking for a West African nation to RP, Cameroon is still completely open and is in an interesting (if perhaps unenviable) position. Or, on the Horn, Ethiopia is free and lacks many historical constraints since its relationship with Eritrea was never much developed. Or perhaps a rehabilitated Somalia, since that nation's extreme poverty was only ever asserted in a single, probably inconsequential, special forces thread.

Madagascar, probably one of the more interesting places around, is also still wide open.

As for Israel, well, there isn't much that we can really do. Sabir/The United Arab Republic could possibly take the place of the Arab League in RL if you're set on adopting a state closely modelled on the actual one, but you are by no means under obligation to do so.

Heh, I suppose thats what everyone ought keep in mind... AMW is based on real populations and real geography, but real history is out the window just about everywhere outside of Europe.

I'll keep this in mind. ;) For now, a preview of the history of Israel, still up to revisions

Name: The Armed Republic of Israel
Consisting of: Israel, Cyprus, Lebanon, Gaza Strip, West Bank (Not West Jerusalem)
Population:
~15,900,000
Government: Democratic Republic
Head of State: President Kara Maddox
Capital: Tel Aviv
GDP per State: $41.29 Billion (Cyprus)
$224.6 Billion (Israel)
$52.65 Billion (Lebanon)
Total GDP: $318.54 Billion
GDP Per Capita $20,034
Tax Rate: 35%
Government Budget: $111,489,000,000
Military Budget: $24,527,580,000

History:
*Hopefully I dun step on any toes here, if I do I may change this to correspond with AMW history.

1990's: The IDF and the Israeli government saw the civil war in Lebanon as an opportunity to eliminate one of the enemies to it's north, backing a secular governmental group and Islamic moderates against the Islamic Extremist.

Using fast assault tactics the IDF lead by a brigade of Merkava III tanks reached the capital within two days of the opening assault. The IAF completely decimated any opposition that Lebanon managed to put up.

With a few days the Lebanese Extremist were defeated and most retreated across the border to Syria. Israel helped Lebanon set up a democratic government, but the Lebanese officials refused to set up an army in fear that it would be used by the extremist to stage a coup. Instead they asked for protection by the IDF and before the end of the decade applied for statehood, the request was granted. For the most part the transition was painless, however several Lebanese met rather explosive ends at the hands of extremist, who knew the battle was lost, but wanted to make a mark.

The end of the decade saw a expansion the defense budget and the expansion of the Israeli Naval Forces (INF), before the end of the century the IDF was getting 200 new Merkava IVs and 200 Merkava IV upgrades of the older Mk IIIs. Upgrades included turning remaining Merkava Mk I into a new powerful IFV, complete with 35mm armored remote turret, and four ATGM launchers, it was capable of carrying six men, they also turned the existing Merkava Mk IIs into an AFV by mounting a 90mm HVAP gun. Both were designed to be air portable.

Also, operations in the Gaza Strip and West Bank put them wholly under Israeli control, but part of Jerusalem was given to the UE as a gift, and any Arabs that wanted to leave were able to peacefully, for the most part they stayed and lived in peace with their Jewish counterparts.

2000-01: Cyrpus was always a place of contention since the 60's, however, Greece and Turkey were finally able to agree to the creation of a unified Cyprus in 2000, the date for elections was . In 2001 a small group of Islamic Extremist, some from the Lebanon Conflict, took up root in Cyprus, quickly spreading to over 2,000 members.

2002: In obvious election rigging the party consisting of Islamic Extremist came to power. Greece and Turkey didn't want another crisis and ignored the pleas for help. Riots happened in the street between Greece Cypriots and the Government's corrupt forces, over 1000 Cypriots died within the first few days.

Seeing this as a chance to expand their influence and smoother another attempted extremist coup Israel sent a force to Cyprus comprised of two divisions, after a bloody street battle in the capital and country side the all of the extremist were either dead or captured. Israel became the overseer of the island, elections were planned for 2004.

2004: With the elections came a landslide victory for the Israeli party, they had been smart in avoiding religious differences between themselves, the Greeks and Turks, instead they focused their position on improving the economy and defence under Israeli guidance.

Within a few months of the election, the Israeli guidance turned to Israeli rule, the government and citizens voted to stay under Israeli rule rather then become independent and create their own military.

The modern Israeli Republic had finally come of age, and with a booming arms industry, a growing Christian tourism industry, and new resources it was ready to become of age. First on the agenda was to create better relations with UE because of Israel's growing demand for oil and natural gas.
---------------------

Still up for revisions.

I endorse The Silver Sky

I endorse The Silver Sky

I'm happy for Space Union to go ahead with Germany, then. I think that's settled?

On The Silver Sky: I don't know much about this region of AMW, the Commonwealth has never paid much attention, but there's no Turkey, per se. The Ottoman Empire exists in a fairly deep state of isolationism, and possibly never invaded Cyprus, we'll have to check. Just as importantly, the British maintain their Sovereign Base Areas, and have a large number of forces deployed there in relation to the war with France and Spain... just a heads-up.
Is there any history with Lebanon? Did Sabir exert some control, there? [looks for help]

Cameroon is fine...perhaps the war with the ECOWAS could be worked into the rise to power of Nedal Kafra in Cameroon?

Sabir did excercise influence in Lebanon at some point, but I'm having trouble uncovering the old Syrian threads...

On endorsements:

Err... I think we're beyond the point where 'two endorsements and you're in' is a workeable system, and upping the number is probably just as bad given that veteran players tend to vanish in waves. We ought codify a proper system for it... perhaps not based on approval numbers but on an end to questions/opposition to the bid?

All right, I'll try to catch the front page up with things.

There's a lot new and a lot pending, hey? Let's see where we're agreed, so far:

-Space Union has Germany, and it is called... The Federal Republic of Germany? Something else?

-USSNA has South Africa, Lesotho, and Swaziland, and it is called the South African Federation.

-Are we accepting Halberdardia with the UAE, Oman, and Yemen, then? He's been hanging around for almost two weeks, so I think it'd be unfair to make him wait longer on the off-chance that UE may turn up in the next two! There's still some question about how the conquests might have happened without his nation turning into a puppet, I think, but maybe competition between all the near-by powers prevented anyone from really committing for fear of starting a major war, so, er, the point is: what's the nation to be called?

-The Silver Sky's presumably going to get in, but I think it's too soon to write-up his claim. Will get back to that.

-If Nedalia is happy with just Cameroon, I don't foresee much opposition. Will it still be Cameroon, or are you hoping to make an entirely fictional nation out of Cameroon's geography? I don't think that it's important for us to keep Cameroon, if you want to rename the nation or anything like that (stop me if I'm wrong, comrades).

Federal Republic of Germany is fine. I'll get to my RPing tomorrow then as everything is cleared up. :)

Ok, then I guess I will look for a new nation to play as.

Keeping it as Cameroon is fine...I could RP the breakdown of the political system there beginning in 2005, if possible, because I want it to be a sort of popular dictatorship, inevitably.

Just a question: I would be interested in adding Equatorial Guinea, Sao Tome, and Gabon if possible. Again, I dont know the history in AMW involving the countries, but if its not possible, no worries.

Err... I think we're beyond the point where 'two endorsements and you're in' is a workeable system, and upping the number is probably just as bad given that veteran players tend to vanish in waves. We ought codify a proper system for it... perhaps not based on approval numbers but on an end to questions/opposition to the bid?

I agree with this. Seems to work better than the current system, especially as we have people who've only just joined AMW themselves- and don't necessarily understand the global situation- endoring other prospective players.

Having said that, I'm happy for USSNA to take over as SAF, and as long as Space Union keeps Germany as Germany and not some Sikh version thereof, I'm fine with that too.

Halbergardia should get in too, on account he's been more than patient and UE does have an unfortunate habit of going walkabout.

TSS's Israel seems OK too, again especially since UE isn't here to object.

I'll say "Not a chance!" to Zelron taking those SEA Nations- hell, if Roycelandia can't take the Philippines diplomatically and vaguely legitimately, I really can't see how most of South-East Asia could suddenly form a coalition of the likes unseen since Bonstock was around.

Even though the Ottomans are in deep seclusion (comparable to Japan until the mid 1850s), they do have limited trade with Roycelandia and their military is generally, I believe, armed with surplus Roycelandian military equipment- ie, Korean/Vietnam War-era stuff for the most part...

Equatorial Guinea is fine, Nedalia, as I don't think that anyone else is likely to take such a small nation on its own.

Gabon, sadly, is not available. The west is under Roycelandian control, while the east is the remains of the real Republic of Gabon, under protection by the African Commonwealth and the United African Republics (me).

Sao Tome and Principe I'm not sure, is that free, or has Roycelandia or Austria or someone been meddling there?

Certainly Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea should be okay, though.

Are we accepting Halberdardia with the UAE, Oman, and Yemen, then? He's been hanging around for almost two weeks, so I think it'd be unfair to make him wait longer on the off-chance that UE may turn up in the next two! There's still some question about how the conquests might have happened without his nation turning into a puppet, I think, but maybe competition between all the near-by powers prevented anyone from really committing for fear of starting a major war, so, er, the point is: what's the nation to be called?

I think someone (Yugo Slavia?) previously suggested that the unification be made to take place during the Elian annexation of Egypt, thus giving a reason that Elian attention would be sufficiently diverted to allow for the event to take place without intervention. And the new nation will retain the name of its conqueror; it will be known as the United Arab Emirates. (I plan on expanding/re-organizing the RL emirates to cover the territory of the former Oman and Yemen, and some changes to the political system along with it.)

If I give up Cyrpus can I get in? I admit that was a bit of a stretch (and rather hard to get a realistic history), I was just looking for more countries to get control of I can do without it if you'd like. I was also gonna put something about ousting Syrian influence in Lebanon, but was sure. :/

Quick question, is Crete occupied? If not that gives me my first RP idea.

EDIT: But if it's possibly I'd really like to keep Cyprus, I suspect the Israeli government would be more then friendly to the UK Forces and let them keep their bases on the island.

After checking, Elian Egypt action comes too early to be manageable... but perhaps there were a few Omani/Yemeni emirs who backed the arrival of UAE drinking buddies rather than the more centralised regime in Baghdad, and UE didn't want to get too agressive in case the Combine and/or the worlds oil-buying nations didn't like the idea of the whole of middle eastern black gold sources being monopolized under one power?

Slightly odd, but perhaps expandable into something or other...

Seems sensible enough.

Perhaps UE doesn't want to risk ruining the conformity and stability it has. Making and keeping the ME peaceful and united must be a fairly complicated project (though not without its rewards!), and launching into a war on the Arabian peninsula may just be too risky. Especially in a world where the ME's people aren't motivated by one (or two) shared religious pillars. If UE involved itself in fighting in the south, it'd be at the risk of internal fractures occuring as a result, maybe? And with Saudi Arabia's southern oil fields so close to the action, that just seems likely to cause hurt.

Crete is not occupied, I think. We assume it to be part of the NPC Hellenic Republic, I suppose.
I can tell you that Britain (Walmington) is likely to desire positive relations with Israel, so long as you get on well with Baghdad (UE). You'll have no trouble getting support from the British so long as you don't make life difficult for us in relation to UE et cetra (we're stretching the relationship far enough without help :) ).

Hell, perhaps we'll put Cyprus under military control, 'for the duration' and allow in Israeli elements as support in the struggle against the Holy League. If you lobby Baghdad to back Britain over the League you'll be showered with all kinds of help, and probably the means to build next-generation Merkavas with world-leading British composite armour ;)



((Oh, any new players who don't know, I'm Dra-pol and Walmington. I co-founded AMW as Dra-pol (North Korea) but then our British player left, and people -coincidentally- thought of Walmington on Sea as a good candidate to take-over, not knowing that I was already part of AMW. Though already in AMW as a Korean authoritarian-socialist, I was sufficiently flattered to accept the secondary role as an Anglo-Saxon imperialist! There's not much chance of one propping-up the other, as I'm sure you can imagine!))

No thoughts on anything, although am in opposition to TSS's proposal regarding the population increase.

Crete is not occupied, I think. We assume it to be part of the NPC Hellenic Republic, I suppose. YAY! :)

I can tell you that Britain (Walmington) is likely to desire positive relations with Israel, so long as you get on well with Baghdad (UE). You'll have no trouble getting support from the British so long as you don't make life difficult for us in relation to UE et cetra (we're stretching the relationship far enough without help :) ). Don't have to worry on that account, the last thing I need right now is to get a 'world power' pissed, or two pissed at each other.

Hell, perhaps we'll put Cyprus under military control, 'for the duration' and allow in Israeli elements as support in the struggle against the Holy League. If you lobby Baghdad to back Britain over the League you'll be showered with all kinds of help, and probably the means to build next-generation Merkavas with world-leading British composite armour ;)
Yay! I get Cyprus. I can lobby fairly well, or at least I think so. Oh, and why thank you (or should that be tank you. XD), combined with some new guns my Merkava Vs are gonna rawk.

And AMW China, dun worry, I've given up on that idea.

YAY! :)

Don't have to worry on that account, the last thing I need right now is to get a 'world power' pissed, or two pissed at each other.


Yay! I get Cyprus. I can lobby fairly well, or at least I think so. Oh, and why thank you (or should that be tank you. XD), combined with some new guns my Merkava Vs are gonna rawk.

And AMW China, dun worry, I've given up on that idea.


You do realize that you're putting yourself in the middle of WW3 by agreeing to the Brit proposal?

Well, Israel is relatively safe. France and Spain will have to get past the Anglo-Australian force at Cyprus in order to touch Israel, and will have to provoke United Elias in doing so. They [France and Spain] are already 99.9997839% likely to lose the war in disasterous style, so doing that seems... well, yeah, Israel isn't going to be in the middle unless it sides with France.

Do we have any actual decisions on whether Space and TSS are in or not?

Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea are fine. :)

When can I get started?

Is Strathdonia only Malawi or what? I can fine any info on him on the fornt page.

EDIT: Also, on the front page you have my population listed as around 47 million. I believe that is just the population for South Africa, the combined poulation for the SAF is clsoer to 50.259 million people.

Strathdonia is Mawali plus Niassa, Tete and Zambezia provinces of Mozambique

this map helps explains it:
http://www.meatballs.terminator.org.uk/crookfur/images/mozambiqueAMW.jpg

The grey areas are bits that are now fully Strathdonian and the blue bits are what are considred "occupied territory" although any trouble in those region is currently somewhat minor but it does exist.

WEll, theoretically at least, Russia could swoop down and attack Isreal, but they aren't really that involved in this conflict right now.

BTW, I am the other guy that co-founded AMW with Dra-pol, I play the USA (USQ) and a small conclave on and around the sight of Hamhung in N. Korea.

I think that we have to be way beyond two endorsements and you are in, if we want to keep that system, I think it needs to be two endorsements from player that have been in AMW for a year or more, at least, and that only after all questions and concerns are put to bed.

Whaddya say?

WWJD
Amen.

So.. Can I start posting? Pwetty Please? :D

Another preview of the history of Israel, hopefully the final draft.

Name: The Armed Republic of Israel
Consisting of: Israel, Cyprus, Lebanon, Gaza Strip, West Bank (Not West Jerusalem)
Population:
~15,900,000
Government: Democratic Republic
Head of State: President Kara Maddox
Capital: Tel Aviv
GDP per State: $41.29 Billion (Cyprus)
$224.6 Billion (Israel)
$52.65 Billion (Lebanon)
Total GDP: $318.54 Billion
GDP Per Capita $20,034
Tax Rate: 35%
Government Budget: $171,693,000,000
Military Budget: $31,591,512,000 + Whatever USQ gives me.

History:
1990-1996: The IDF and the Israeli government saw the civil war in Lebanon as an opportunity to eliminate one of the enemies to it's north, backing a secular governmental group and Islamic moderates against the Islamic Extremist.

Using fast assault tactics the IDF lead by a brigade of Merkava III tanks reached the capital within two days of the opening assault. The IAF completely decimated any opposition that Lebanon managed to put up.

With a few days the Lebanese Extremist were defeated and most retreated across the border to Syria. Israel helped Lebanon set up a democratic government, but the Lebanese officials refused to set up an army in fear that it would be used by the extremist to stage a coup. Instead they asked for protection by the IDF and before the end of the decade applied for statehood, the request was granted. For the most part the transition was painless, however several Lebanese met rather explosive ends at the hands of extremist, who knew the battle was lost, but wanted to make a mark.

1996-1999The end of the decade saw a expansion the defense budget and the expansion of the Israeli Naval Forces (INF), before the end of the century the IDF was getting 100 new Merkava IVs and 100 Merkava IV upgrades of the older Mk IIIs. Upgrades included turning remaining Merkava Mk I into a new powerful IFV, complete with 35mm armored remote turret, and four ATGM launchers, it was capable of carrying six men, they also turned the existing Merkava Mk IIs into an AFV by mounting a 90mm HVAP gun. Both were designed to be air portable.

Also, operations in the Gaza Strip and West Bank put them wholly under Israeli control, but part of Jerusalem was given to the UE as a gift, and any Arabs that wanted to leave were able to peacefully, for the most part they stayed and lived in peace with their Jewish counterparts.

2000-01: Cyprus has always been, at least in Israeli eyes, a perfect base for their first blue water fleet. Such as a base was required to protect Israel from sea assault by the growing European powers. As always an invasion plan was drawn up, but Israel had one big problem, it had inadequate landing craft. Rather then buy expensive ships they decided to approach the British rulers of the island diplomaticly.

2002-Present: Israeli leaders approach British leaders to discuss the possible transfer of Cyprus from British rule to Israeli rule. The talks are slow with neither party willing to fold, but in mid 2003 the talks come to a high point with a draft of 'terms of exchange' written up, details remained sketchy to the outside world. Talks continued until Israel and the United Kingdom reached a secret agreement. (Read: To still be decided on)

The military continues to build up, percentage of funds spent on the military doubles from 9.2% to 18.4%. The number of Merkava IVs in service reaches 2,200 when production reaches it's peak at 300 Mk IVs per year.

The modern Israeli Republic had finally come of age, and with a booming arms industry, a growing Christian tourism industry, and new resources it was ready to become of age. First on the agenda was to create better relations with UE because of Israel's growing demand for oil and natural gas.

---------------------

Still up for revisions and discussion.

TSS, I endorse you

Well that was a fun unnoticed disappearing act, just some confused and jumbled ramblings from your favorite Austrio player-

Israel- Well that is quite interesting to finally have a unified Cyprus, Lebenon and Israel combination sounds pretty good to me at least, if that matters.

Germany- Lets see how this turn out, somewhat confusing with a lot of reversals with the Sikhs but for the record I still don't like the idea of a subjugated German majority in Germany, nor does Austria for that matter.

Validfication- Well hafly because Quintonnia says so and because I agree I think we need either more endorsements and/or at least answer the most prominet questions. I think it is getting a little lax as I have not, ironically, even gotten one endorsement from anybody to play in AMW even with me having fun wars and annexing little countries.

Diplomacy and Whatnot-

Roycelandia- Well, I was just wondering about the idea that you could sell off Reunioun island to me, I know I promised to drop my imperialistic ways but lets face it, no one can resist for long.

Who Notices- Well I just up and started by own capitalist organization, it is pretty bare bones right now so it can be shaped later for a multitude of beatiful tasks, liberating or staying neutral it has the potenetial for both. Just check it out (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11358211#post11358211) and send any telegrams over to The Austrian Federacy if you have any questions about it.

Alas, Moorington, the Roycelandian Constitution prevents the voluntary disposal of any incorporated territory of the Roycelandian Empire...

However, if you wanted to put a weather station or something on the Island we could rent the facility to you, but the actual Island would remain Roycelandian, if that makes sense...

It still escapes me as to how a landlocked country, one buried behind Italy at that, thinks it needs colonies.

TSS, I'm satisfied and will endorse you, just one minor issue.

Israel's invasion plan of Cyprus would strain relations with the USQ since Britain and the USQ were both part of NATO back then, which Tel Aviv would really want to avoid lest she loses her military funding.

Anyway in another matter, I have a slight concern with our Morocco player (Spizania) - you have mentioned the development of other weaponary for AMW, but you've only posted them on the NS draftroom and frankly, you need to let the rest of us know.

Space, howabout a history?

[QUOTE=AMW China]TSS, I'm satisfied and will endorse you, just one minor issue.

Israel's invasion plan of Cyprus would strain relations with the USQ since Britain and the USQ were both part of NATO back then, which Tel Aviv would really want to avoid lest she loses her military funding.[QUOTE]

If ya read my history thingy again (the new one) you'll see an agreement was reached diplomatically, not invasion there. :)

AMW China, both of those weapons have been cancelled due to i realised how bad they were

Are most of the RPs done on the AMW Forums on International Incidents? Any requirements before starting to RP Cameroon (RL Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea)?

Well, since, after a few days of living with the half-baked idea, I find that I've not totally lost interest in it, I think that I will properly put-forward my secondary/temporary application.

Tulgary (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11272071), as I've already said to some of you at least, would be a nation distant from, weaker than, and fundamentally opposed to the Indian Soviet Commonwealth, and would probably only last for maybe three or four months before my involvement in NS (hopefully) declines.

I'm vaguely interested in playing the other side, on the side, so to speak. A 104 year old Archduke seems a nice contrast to the Geletian Soviets. Tulgary will probably end up bordering on the comic foil in its military adventuring, but of course will take itself quite seriously. I'd try to make it forceful as possible while other HL nations are inactive, so there's still something for the rest of the world to worry about, and lapse into bumbling ineptitude when the main League powers are around to take most of the responsibility. We'd probably thumb our noses at Germany and then shriek and dive under the remains of the Liege forts when they turn around, adventure into Africa and create a financial and military disaster, and try to fleece Roycelandian gamblers out of a fortune, amen.

As detailed in the history, linked above, Tulgary would replace Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg).

Anyway, either way, I suppose I'd like to find out whether the community would prefer me to just leave Tulgary on the shelf, or to take it down and make a mess.


Nedalia: it'd probably be best to make an initial thread with a bit about the nature of your nation. As yet, not many players have said much about your bid, but I think that's only because nobody has strong feelings about Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea! If you treat it, for now, as a work-in-progress and work-up the background, that'd be best... it's early days in respect of whether or not your vision for the nation will fit with the world, so put it out there and we can see what you're about!

I think that Tulgary would be a fun idea, especially because it gives you an opprotunity to play something other than what you normally play.

However, I would prefer to see that happen and have you stay on, I for one wopuld miss your constant bellering. If you are dead set on leaving though, I think that your talents would be better used using the next three months to self-destruct Beth Gellert so there would be a realistic reason that we all suddenly start ignoring what right now is an extremely powerful nation of 400 million.

WWJD
Amen.

Went ahead and started my main thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11360183

NAME: Cameroon (RL Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea)
POPULATION: Approx. 17,880,000
GROWTH RATE: 2.04%
TOTAL GDP (PPP): $66,520,000,000
GDP - PER CAPITA (PPP): $3,720 (The population in southern Cameroon (RL Eq. Guinea) has a GDP-Per Capita for about $50,000)

HISTORY: In early 2005, a few months after an attempted coup d'etat attempt on former Equatorial Guinea president Teodoro Obiang, the tiny central African nation was thrown into upheaval when he announced he was throwing all potential successors to the presidency in jail and naming his son, Teodorin Obiang, as the next President of Equatorial Guinea.

With oil production increasing in the country, Paul Biya, president of Cameroon, urged Obiang to reconsider his move, which had thrown some of Biya's allies in jail. Obiang flatly refused. Formerly warm relations between the two nations soured after the desicion Obiang made to ignore the requests of his Cameroonian counterpart.

In 2002, the ICJ drew maritime borders between Eq. Guinea, Cameroon, and Nigeria. However, disputes between Eq. Guinea and Cameroon erupted not long after that over the new borders, and implementation of the ruling was delayed. In August 2005, new potential spots for offshore oil drillings were found; immediately, both Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea claimed the land.

With relationships already having gone sour, Obiang threatened to use his vast wealth to support a rebellion in southern Cameroon, disrupting the heavy mining in the area. Secretly, western powers, long annoyed by Obiang and his ways, pledged allegiance to Paul Biya and persuaded him to invade the tiny country to the south and annex it. Paul Biya did exactly that.

The invasion happened in December of 2005, and by February, Obiang and his son were in prison, and Equatorial Guinea under the control of Cameroon, officially recognized as Cameroonian land.

Name: Federal Republic of Germany
Consisting of: Germany
Population: 82,422,299
Government: Federal Republic
Head of State: Chancellor Satpul Singh
Capital: Berlin
Gross Domestic Product: $2.73 trillion
GDP Per Capita: $30,400
Government Budget: $1.249 trillion
Military Budget: $69 billion (2.5% of my GDP)

History:

After the 1989 reunification of East and West Germany, the Federal Republic of Germany was born. The new republic was almost an exact copy of the West German republic, more so then the East. But the new Republic found itself facing daunting obstacles such as the rising unemployment rate, staggering economy, not as advanced East side, and an increase in the poverty level.

The new governments first act was to reunify the nation more than just boundary wise. The nations still differed in political, economic, and social systems, to the point that they were two different countries still all but in name. Through heavy investment and a five year period, the East side of Germany was slowly transitioned from its former communist economy and government to a free-market, democratic system. Employment increased as corporations began to move some of their business to the East side where jobs were cheaper. This helped to redistrubute the wealth of the entire nation somewhat equally.

As factories began to spring up, the nation began to shift from its old ways of being a welfare-state to being less of it. Welfare began to decrease as government spending was diverted to military and subsidary spending. This fueled a boom of the industry that helped end the economic stagnation of the nation that had enveloped it for the last decade. By the beginning of the new millenium, Germany was increasing at a 3% rate, a healthy number compared to the previous 0.5%. As the domestic outlook began to look better, foreign relationships began to seem bleaker. The main problem: the Holy League.

Around the closing of the 20th century, the nations of France, Spain, Italy, and Russia fell to a catholic, monarchy form of government, similar to the ones in the 17th and 18th century. These four nations combined into a powerful alliance dubbed the Holy League. This alliance's formation began isolate Germany from their European brotherin to the point that Germany cut off trade on all but the most essential items. Diplomatic relations were severed as the relationships broke down. A period of hostility broke out between the alliance and Germany as it found itself the lone democracy along with Austria on mainland Europe. Although relationships began to break down between most of Europe, Germany extended its friendship to both Austria and Great Britian who it is working with to strengthen ties with. Along with them, Germany has begun talks to enter an a four-way alliance with Israel, South Africa, and the Southern Confederacy along with Morrocco who Germany is supplying arms to.

Alright... I've got to voice some concerns here. Not about an individual bid, but about how things are progressing overall with some of our newest members.

The above post isn't the first allusion I've seen to alliance arrangements and arms purchases between a gaggle of new members (Morocco at the forefront, with Israel, South Africa, the Southern Confederacy, and Germany attached). A lot of these arrangements seem to have taken place via telegram communications. Now, I'm not saying that its a bad thing for people to come into AMW with plans for alliances and such... the Lyong peninsula has origins with myself and a group of pre-NS friends, and even though I'm the only one still around I look back fondly on the wonderful depth of setting and RP we were able to build through good communication and cooperation.

What I have a problem with is that what's happening now is simply devoid of roleplay. AMW is a community which demands more than just 'I sell him my crap he gives me cash' posting... things need to evolve, to be explained, to build up and give the world the chance to observe and get involved themselves. What the hell do Morocco, South Africa, Israel, and Chile have in common? Whatever it is, I'd like to know.... why is an alliance advantageous for each party? What is planned to assuage or defend against other powers who might not like such arrangements? Working out these sort of things makes for excellent roleplay, as seen in negotiations that formed the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=388566) and the Holy League (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=480780)... (and, for the Progressive Bloc, the occasional conference (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=422501) helps remind us why there's no way in hell we're signing any treaties with the barbari... err, Igovians!)

Now, I may be being a tad unfair... perhaps such a roleplay is in the works, and the kiss-ass friendly relations between the aforementioned nations is just your enthusiasm leaking through early. If thats the case, very good.

But, even if the above is properly dealt with, there remains the rather poor roleplay that has been occuring up until this point. Franberry and Spizania's weapons trades are bad enough, harking back to the god-awful marketplace threads found in mainstream NS and leaving many questioning the feasibility of financing and logistics, but the latest 'arrangement' between the Moroccans and Israel takes the cake. In one post, not particularly involved to boot, nuclear warheads are enroute from Tel-Aviv to Rabat.

Nuclear F@#$%^ warheads.

You can't tell me that makes any sense at all. Selling a nuclear bomb isnt like holding a yard sale. The things are too bloody powerful, too dangerous, to be simply sold off-hand. A deal to purchase nuclear weapons technology ought be a bloody RP in its own right, backroom deal-making, security questions, and all... whats more, nuclear proliferation is an international concern. I'm absolutely certain the Quinntonians, let alone the Elians, would pounce on such an arrangement as soon as they caught a whiff of it. Hell, one could roleplay for ten pages with just a conspirator trying to dodge the bloody security services to do whatever it is needs doing.

All in all, I'm quite dissapointed in how things are going so far, and I hope something will be done to bring these story arcs up to an appropriate level for AMW.

Spyr makes some excellent points, which I must whole heartedly agree with.

Nuclear Proliferation in AMW is a vital issue, and I think the question needs to be asked: How the hell did Israel get nukes in the first place?

As I understand it, the only Nations in AMW with Nukes developed them on their own- more or less.

Who would sell an Atomic Bomb to Israel?

All these equipment deals concern me too- this "I give you Eleventy Billion Dollars and you give OMG T3H SUPAR-FIGHTER!!11!!one!shift+one1! stuff. AMW doesn't work like that- we rarely use dollar amounts, on the theory that there's so much more to an arms transaction than handing over briefcases full of money in exchange for briefcases full of hardware, despite what movies tell you.

And as Spyr says, what do Morocco and Israel have in common? Hell, the Roycelandians of all people support Western Saharan independence, on the grounds that there's nothing there and all this war is doing is getting people killed and creating more support for the Soviets.

And the Roycelandians- who have ships in the Meditterranean- would be all over any vessels with nukes on board like Uni students of a free keg of beer.

Perhaps I could suggest the newer players put a bit more time into their posts? Some of you are coming across as over-excited teenagers, eager to get to the shooting and missile-lobbing without pausing to consider the wider implications.

Remember, this isn't regular NS- where, if someone sends their Stormtrooper Legions to march on your capital city, you fight the battle and then just pretend it happened in an "alternate universe" if you lose.

In AMW, France has just invaded and taken Gibraltar from the UK. If the UK wants Gibraltar back, it will require diplomacy and the invocation of alliances, deals, compromises, and, as a last resort, military action- and there's no guarantee that France will give the territory back anyway, and there's no way the UK can realistically mount a military operation to recover the territory at the moment. The UK can't- in AMW- just pretend it never happened.

There's an off-site board many of us post on here:

http://s9.invisionfree.com/NS_Modern_World/index.php?act=idx

This is an excellent place to kick ideas around OOC, chat informally, and generally make sure everyone can see how things are working in each other's Nations. Lots of information on equipment and who's who can be found there, too.

We're more than happy to help you settle in to AMW, but I'm afraid you guys do have some work to do...

After taking a look at TSS's thread, I must agree with Spyr and Royce.

Israel selling nukes? That alone is enough to isolate Tel Aviv from the Progressives, get United Elias so annoyed as to send tanks into the area, and get all funding from Quintonnia cancelled.

As for equipment deals, BG's dealings with Franberry are an example of how it should be - trade deals depend on politics as well, and it seems none of the newer players are taking that into account.

And another point, why is everyone doing RPing on IRC and telegrams? That's what these forums are for.

Yeah, it's fair to say that we don't want things to move too fast. Things tend to take days or weeks, even months in AMW, and we frequently find that there's surprisingly complicated relations sparked into action by single events. One has to remember that while parties A and B may agree to something, there are still 3rd parties under player control, which may alter things. It's like... look at Morocco and the SADR et cetera... everyone's up in arms over various dealings with Morocco since its renewed invasion, but the British have been suspiciously quiet. Possibly this is because they've lost Gibraltar, and don't want to confirm alienation of Rabat, and are waiting on Baghdad's word, and so forth... but I'd be utterly amazed if their battleship and the Australian fleet at Cyprus don't take action on the transfer of nuclear weapons!

That's not to say that such things can't be done, I just hope that nobody... thinks things done before their time, you know? Like, I've not just said that the Soviets have launched a man to the moon, rather I've re-started the space-race and now am waiting to see whether anyone cares before posting fresh missions.

Sorry, that's not nearly so concise as I'd like, I just woke from an extended nap, heh.

Well, having said that, I do think that some of the new players are quite... good, and don't want to sound all high-and-mighty about it. It's just that AMW is a big place, and can be quite creaky. It's maybe best not to do too much too soon... you have time, and it's well to develop your nation internally while learning international conditions and relations for the early days of your AMW tenure. I know this isn't a written rule, and most of you are competent RPers in your own right, I hope it's just read as friendly advice from the inside.

Moving on...

On Tulgary/BG, I suppose that you do have something of a point there, sir. I don't really know how I'm going to conclude things in AMW. At this point, I really don't know whether my move will mean that I suddenly disappear one day in Octoberish, or whether I'll just be around a lot less. And I'm not going to know until it happens. Perhaps I'll just say that, in the event that I don't get the chance to wind things down more naturally, LRR and AC can play a civil war or something that suits them, dividing BG's states between them- an end to the Soviet way of life would almost immediately negate most of our economic and military might, so it wouldn't automatically turn them into super-powers over night. Any lack of background can be partly explained as a cover-up in the open by Soviet propaganda. Er, anyway, I'm rambling, but that's the emergency back-up plan :)

Anyway, I'll probably start doing something with Tulgary, but, if we should run out of good space in the next couple of months, I will probably be quite fine with relinquishing Tulgary to a democratic revolt or secessionist movements or something.

I will agree the the selling of nuclear warhead is a tad bit unrealistic. Nuclear weapons are never sold like that. However I must protest some of you other concerns. We joined this RP and we now are getting into this RP. Things need to be within bounds, but if me, Space, and TSS want to get together and form the Alliance of three or whatever then so be it. Realism need to be maintained but you cannot say that this RP is totally realist either. Entire landmasses made up, peoples created, and histories changed. Perhapse maybe these nations shared a similar interest in the past or now anti-HL and want to form their own alliance rather than join one that only shares one of their views.

You guys are very very elitist and extreamly controlling. I'm not saying let the bush run wild, but you are keeping things in a cage. You so readily change real life history, but never your own. Why should it be any different? Changing the real life past can have just as many or even more reprecussions outside of that nation then if we changed your past. I really am getting the feeling of double standards here.

EDIT: Also Israel has been rumored to have nuclear capabilites for a number of years.

*applauds Spyr*

Look, we're not being elitist; we just want things to work reasonably. If your nations want to create an alliance, that's fine with us, but it has to make sense. There have to be detailed reasons, there has to be RPed development, etc etc. Alliances and dealings don't just sprout out of nowhere. I understand that you new fellows seem to be friends, and that's quite fine, but you've got to remember that AMW has standards that are more rigorous than those of mainstream NS and we require things that happen IC to be based on actual RP rather than outside friendships.

While I was never going to bother taking issue with Israel having nuclear weapons, I now feel compelled to say that, well, that is in the real world, and it isn't unfair to question things in AMW. I don't know how Israel's nuclear programme started and proceeded in reality, but if people want to ask how it happened in AMW, that's nothing personal, is it? As I say, for me it's not a point of major interest, specifically, I'm just trying to qualify the issue generally.

For gosh's sake, let's not all get defensive, it won't end well, chaps!

Our history can't be changed because nations would cease to make sense. RL history can be changed because... why the hell not? But just like real Britons can't elect a PM on a platform based on preventing the American revolution, so we can't say that Dra-pol never invaded South Korea so as to enable Joe Soap to create Soapistan in Seoul. Not that this is what's happened, but... you know, I'm explaining general whys, again.

BG, a climactic war between the Combine and the Commonwealth might be very fun and a good way to send you off. We could even have Adiatorix fight one of the characters I'm cooking up for AMW, ala Wingert Vs Putin...

*applauds Spyr*

Look, we're not being elitist; we just want things to work reasonably. If your nations want to create an alliance, that's fine with us, but it has to make sense. There have to be detailed reasons, there has to be RPed development, etc etc. Alliances and dealings don't just sprout out of nowhere. I understand that you new fellows seem to be friends, and that's quite fine, but you've got to remember that AMW has standards that are more rigorous than those of mainstream NS and we require things that happen IC to be based on actual RP rather than outside friendships.

And this sums up what I was going to say pretty well.

Let me give you another example: Roycelandia, in AMW's past, was closely allied with Britain- an alliance that dated back to the 18th Century. However, sometime after WWII, Britain got all "Anti-Colonial" on us and our Nations had a falling out- and are only now starting to patch things up, even though Walmington-on-Sea's player and I get on just fine on an OOC level.

Similarly, the Roycelandians really don't like the Beth Gellertens one bit (and the feeling is mutual), even though our respective players crack jokes with one another and get on just fine OOC.

As Armandian Cheese says, you need a reason for your Nations to be involved in an alliance, and not a magic hand-waving "Well this isn't the real world, so we can do whatever we want" reason.

There's another thing: AMW has been in existence quite some time... something like 18 months RL time. All our Nations have complicated and involved histories, and it's a huge amount of hassle to change them to suit new players who- and I must be honest here- don't exactly have a good track record of hanging around.

We can certainly Retcon some historical differences once a new nation has been around long enough to reassure all of us they're not going to lose interest next Tuesday, but until then, you have to understand our concerns at a group of new people joining, RPing God-knows-what via TG and MSN, then announcing to the rest of us that Israel is selling Nukes to Morocco and South America is developing a Space Programme (the TSS Space Programme has since been scrapped, but I'm using it as an example).

AMW doesn't work like that- you post a thread in II indicating it's an AMW-only RP, then tell the rest of us- ideally in the AMW region or on the invision boards- so we can get involved, or at least be aware what's going on.

And this sums up what I was going to say pretty well.

Let me give you another example: Roycelandia, in AMW's past, was closely allied with Britain- an alliance that dated back to the 18th Century. However, sometime after WWII, Britain got all "Anti-Colonial" on us and our Nations had a falling out- and are only now starting to patch things up, even though Walmington-on-Sea's player and I get on just fine on an OOC level.

Similarly, the Roycelandians really don't like the Beth Gellertens one bit (and the feeling is mutual), even though our respective players crack jokes with one another and get on just fine OOC.

As Armandian Cheese says, you need a reason for your Nations to be involved in an alliance, and not a magic hand-waving "Well this isn't the real world, so we can do whatever we want" reason.

There's another thing: AMW has been in existence quite some time... something like 18 months RL time. All our Nations have complicated and involved histories, and it's a huge amount of hassle to change them to suit new players who- and I must be honest here- don't exactly have a good track record of hanging around.

We can certainly Retcon some historical differences once a new nation has been around long enough to reassure all of us they're not going to lose interest next Tuesday, but until then, you have to understand our concerns at a group of new people joining, RPing God-knows-what via TG and MSN, then announcing to the rest of us that Israel is selling Nukes to Morocco and South America is developing a Space Programme (the TSS Space Programme has since been scrapped, but I'm using it as an example).

AMW doesn't work like that- you post a thread in II indicating it's an AMW-only RP, then tell the rest of us- ideally in the AMW region or on the invision boards- so we can get involved, or at least be aware what's going on.


See that counter intuitive. Real life history is just as complex and even more so. I'm not saying change major events, but you dont seem to even allow the changing of minor details. But you see there things like this Holy League and what not. There is no reason these monarchy's would come to power in the first place. I know you people have some standards, but wherever I look I see major double standards. My main issue here is the alliance deal. See I am persuing increased relations with Both Germany and Israel as I see fit to do so. I want to expand my allies beyond the african continent. My nation is also Anti-HL and share the same views with these nations. I also am persuing relations with Morocco as I see a chance to stop the spread of the HL to Africa. The opposite it true with Nigeria, they have russian ties and I see that as an intrusion on the African Continent.

ON the other side of the coin, Germany would be persuing resources and a defense contracting partner and market. And tiny israel would be seeking powerful allies.

Errh- Meow

Just had to get that out. Anyhoo, as most people do or don't know Austria is a landlocked country that should have no sane reasons for getting any other land outside The Sudentland, Tranyslavannia, some Alps, and maybe Liechenstein (Yet I feel obliged not to take on the Swiss now).

Guess who has the Mauritas, starts with A and ends with Ustria.

So why not let Isreal have weapons of Nuclear proporations (Pun!).

Regardless, as a small country which can easily be laid waste by one or two nuclear weapons Austria heartily disagress with expansions of new nuclear countries, the only market which Austria feels should be subjugated.

To add some spin I hope to get a little post on The Independent (My Factbook) about the building of 2 new nuclear reactors in Vienna, just to get AMW a little more deeper.

A final note- Dammit, leave the Free Market (Notice capitalization) for arms dealings alone, yes very much alone, none of this silly condemnation on The Southern Federacy for approaching a seemingly calm market with the intent to make money.

Yes, maybe The Austrian Federacy knows it can pick a fight without the vast majority of it's bigger evil countries gone, but if Austria has to make a stand somewhere why not on rabid capitalism?

*Gets Instant Email Guy*

Oh boy, so your saying that Isreal will happily do a -I would post an "upyours" smiley but lets not- to the UAE or somename like that and jump over to an definite European power when it seems Europeansare getting more and more crazy, imperialistic, big red button happy (Nuke Happy), and militeristic.

The last thing anybody want to do at the moment is stand up to the monopolizer of oil, not even Quintonnia (I don't think).

Another little bit just plain "jumped" out at me. Is Germany planning to be anti-HL? For that is a very serious position to take with big chum Russia and slightly smaller but crazier France on the other.

Regardless I doubt any sane investor sees any potential at all in Africa proper, war, collasping currencies and governments do that to them [The investors]. So any stuff about need for a trading partner is like zilch, then a little less is where you lie. Sorry but no sane investor would want to go anywhere near a company that plans to do anything in or with Africa.

Roycelandia-

It's okay, I was just thinking about to "centralize" some of those little islands of Madagascar, so its cool for now.

Those 'little islands off Madagascar' are crawling with African socialist/nationalist troops who just siezed them from the French. I thought that Austria was giving-up its attempt to hold on to remote islands so as to avoid the all mighty smackdown, too?

See that counter intuitive. Real life history is just as complex and even more so. I'm not saying change major events, but you dont seem to even allow the changing of minor details.

Such as? Perhaps some examples would help.

But you see there things like this Holy League and what not. There is no reason these monarchy's would come to power in the first place.

There's also no reason for the US to be a fundamentalist Christian Theocracy, the Caribbean to be the centre of a vast Empire, or India to be full of Celts. At the end of the day, we got here first. Besides, IIRC, no-one had much of a problem with the SAF claim once you took Botswana and Namibia out of the equation.

I know you people have some standards, but wherever I look I see major double standards.

Such as? I see a bunch of new players getting upset because they can't have uber-weapons and irrational alliances straight off the bat, without coming up with a thought-out, plausible explanation for them.

My main issue here is the alliance deal. See I am persuing increased relations with Both Germany and Israel as I see fit to do so. I want to expand my allies beyond the african continent.

That's fine. But realistically, you should be looking to Roycelandia, Australasia, and Walmington, and perhaps Quinntonia and/or China for trade etc, given the history of South Africa the country and Sub-Saharan Africa the region. Why Germany? Why Israel?

My nation is also Anti-HL and share the same views with these nations.

Why, exactly, are you Anti-HL? Is it mere jumping on the Anti-HL Bandwagon (ie, most people don't like the HL, so I won't either!), is it a carefully calculated RP choice, or is it something that was worked out via TG or IRC as part of a deal between yourself and Germany?

Roycelandia is Pro-France but HL-neutral. And UE has pro-HL leanings, so an Anti-HL Israel suddenly finds itself without oil or spare parts for anything...

I also am persuing relations with Morocco as I see a chance to stop the spread of the HL to Africa. The opposite it true with Nigeria, they have russian ties and I see that as an intrusion on the African Continent.

Do you see the Strathdonians as an "intrusion on the African Continent"?

The Russians have Roycelandian backing as well, and the Quinntonians have strong ties with Liberia. The age of Colonialism never really ended in AMW Africa, and it seems hypocritical for South Africa- founded by Dutch and English colonists and supported by Roycelandia to a great extent in recent AMW history- to be calling another foreign power an "intrustion" into Africa.

ON the other side of the coin, Germany would be persuing resources and a defense contracting partner and market.

To an extent, I agree with you- but again, it's all happened too suddenly. Trade agreements in AMW take time- like in RL. The MagLev thing is absolutely fine, but suddenly buying every gun and fighter jet Germany can make isn't.

Also, if Germany is anti-HL, then AMW Germany may not last all that long after France and Spain get back from holiday. If, on the other hand, they were more or less neutral in the whole thing, that would change things, as would Germany being an active HL supporter. You see what I mean?

...And tiny israel would be seeking powerful allies.

Which they already have, in the form of United Elias, and by extension, Quinntonia and Roycelandia.

I'm not begrudging you the right to make and choose alliances- but I am saying you need to put a bit more thought into it, instead of basing them purely on your OOC friends.

We're happy to help- AMW is a rich and vibrant RP world- but you've got to work with us, and in time hopefully you can see where we're coming from.

See that counter intuitive. Real life history is just as complex and even more so. I'm not saying change major events, but you dont seem to even allow the changing of minor details. But you see there things like this Holy League and what not. There is no reason these monarchy's would come to power in the first place. I know you people have some standards, but wherever I look I see major double standards. My main issue here is the alliance deal. See I am persuing increased relations with Both Germany and Israel as I see fit to do so. I want to expand my allies beyond the african continent. My nation is also Anti-HL and share the same views with these nations. I also am persuing relations with Morocco as I see a chance to stop the spread of the HL to Africa. The opposite it true with Nigeria, they have russian ties and I see that as an intrusion on the African Continent.

ON the other side of the coin, Germany would be persuing resources and a defense contracting partner and market. And tiny israel would be seeking powerful allies.
That's exactly what we're looking for!

But it needs to be done in the forums, my friends. Not through TG or MSN or OOC, but in actual RP. If we left everything as implied then we'd have just a series of actions with no seeming motive or coordination, and no RPing depth. What you just stated was reasonable and good; now put it in IC form. (And the nuke thing is still absurd, by the way...)

Bloody hell!

What we're looking for in AMW is sensible RP! I think what you new guys are confusing is the fact that AMW is not the real world. You can get away with a whole lot, in fact, Lyong being a prime example. When something is well thought-out, detailed, and interesting, it will probably pass muster. What you need to do, though, is make RPs on the basis of realistic conditions, economic, social, and temporal. You've got to keep that in mind. The whole complexity deal is what we want. Shy away from the basic and take things into the interesting.

On the alliance deal, whatever! But it would be good to explain just why it is that all those nations, geographically, ethnically, and, it appears, governmentally diverse, want to ally with themselves. They do because they do is not good enough. This isn't one of those alternate earths where you pick a country or two and then run away with whatever.

As for all that military equipment dealing, the thing about realistic conditions comes into play again. There isn't the same kind of snappy, seamless transfer that happens in regular NS. You've got to take into account all those messy factors that a country with limited resources needs to pay attention to. Nuclear weapons, well, yes, Israel in RL does have them, and it did proliferate them to South Africa. But in AMW that would be a lot harder for Tel Aviv to get away with, since old Quinn isn't so inclined to look the other way and UE is bitter over Morocco's split. But, as in RL, the acquisition of nuclear weapons by nations located on planet earth is a big deal, one that we tend to not just dandy around like it was a crate of Stens. I don't care if its a bloody free market for arms in this alliance thing, but for god's sake don't send them zipping around the world like radio transmissions and do it in AMW, because if you don't RP it such things might as well not have existed.

As for your colonies, Austria, it still baffles me as to how you even got to them! No coastline, no allies with coastline, fiercely militaristic African nationalists that would jump to send an imperialist frigate down...It seems like you started out with them, and didn't give anybody a chance to react. If AMW was about the fair distribution of NPC countries amongst the PC countries in preparation for warfare like the old colonialists, AMW would be a very different place indeed. So when you do these things, you've got to announce it and, you know, give people a chance to react to it. If such things are even, you know, possible...

But after all that, its important to remember that AMW is just one of the many RPing experiences to be had on NS, so if we tend to be picky its because we've got a lot of area to pick from, and there are a lot of other options. If you don't like this, thats fine, and if you don't want to RP like we want you to RP, more power to you. AMW is not the be-all, end-all of NS RPing, so don't take it too personally when we don't like what you're up to. If you want to be in AMW, you need to read the front page and take it to heart, because that is what the whole house was built on. If we wanted something different, we would have made something different.

One thing, Royce...it might be worthwhile to note that South Africa (in fact, pretty much the whole of Africa), rather overthrew those early colonalists and replaced them with native governments. I can't see the ANC really touting modern South Africa's European founders as anything besides oppressors. Their children did, after all, deprive them of fundamental rights from the moment that the idea was born.

Such as? Perhaps some examples would help.

There is the little thing that German wanted a skith PM and people didnt even like that. The little bit about Irsrael and Cyprus.

There's also no reason for the US to be a fundamentalist Christian Theocracy, the Caribbean to be the centre of a vast Empire, or India to be full of Celts. At the end of the day, we got here first. Besides, IIRC, no-one had much of a problem with the SAF claim once you took Botswana and Namibia out of the equation.

I like "we got here first." I'm sorry, but just because you got her first doens me squat to me. The same rules that apply to me also apply to you. And it is things such as these were I see wrong-doing. How are these things possible, but you have a problem with Israel getting Cyprus, Me gettong Bostwana, or Germany being Skith? Double Standards. You dont want to put up with your rules, but expect other to do so.

Such as? I see a bunch of new players getting upset because they can't have uber-weapons and irrational alliances straight off the bat, without coming up with a thought-out, plausible explanation for them.

Name these uber weapons? I put a lot of work into mydesigns to make them plauseable and realistic. If anything I have seen some people trying to do thing with weapons that dont add up. AS-12 for example. And I can have whatever alliances I choose, be they crazy or not. The world is crazy and much stranger things have happened. I have also provided explanation for the alliance at leats from my part. And to Moorington. The SAF has a growing economy, and is a booming market for any investor. Nothing like the Somalia you think it is.

That's fine. But realistically, you should be looking to Roycelandia, Australasia, and Walmington, and perhaps Quinntonia and/or China for trade etc, given the history of South Africa the country and Sub-Saharan Africa the region. Why Germany? Why Israel?

WHo are you to tell me why my nation should and should not do? Maybe realistically you people would be rioting right now, but I bet your not doing anythign of the sort. Realistically the SAF would never have existed, realistically all these african nation wouldn't band together. One reason I have chosen those two is that they have booming defense industries and I am currently fearing the upcoming war. Also Germany is one of the world largest markets.

[/quote]Why, exactly, are you Anti-HL? Is it mere jumping on the Anti-HL Bandwagon (ie, most people don't like the HL, so I won't either!), is it a carefully calculated RP choice, or is it something that was worked out via TG or IRC as part of a deal between yourself and Germany?

Roycelandia is Pro-France but HL-neutral. And UE has pro-HL leanings, so an Anti-HL Israel suddenly finds itself without oil or spare parts for anything...[/quote]

In light of the attacks on African soil by these European nations I am anti HL. Also it seems like a lot of African nations are anti-HL and I figured my people would feel similar.

Do you see the Strathdonians as an "intrusion on the African Continent"?

The Russians have Roycelandian backing as well, and the Quinntonians have strong ties with Liberia. The age of Colonialism never really ended in AMW Africa, and it seems hypocritical for South Africa- founded by Dutch and English colonists and supported by Roycelandia to a great extent in recent AMW history- to be calling another foreign power an "intrustion" into Africa.

Well there you go. We were founded by the dutch and would have german ties! And I'm not calling for an end of ties to african nations. I'm calling for an end of colonies and Africa.

To an extent, I agree with you- but again, it's all happened too suddenly. Trade agreements in AMW take time- like in RL. The MagLev thing is absolutely fine, but suddenly buying every gun and fighter jet Germany can make isn't.

Why? WHy cant I have my nation buying equipment. There is a threat of global war my friend and that would have the shit scared out of any nation not prepared for it. And if you've taken the time to notice I'm doing upgrade programs on my existing vehicles and am also buying from Israel. In fact I havent actually bought anything from German IC yet. I've just talked with Space outside. Nothing has been decided yet.

Also, if Germany is anti-HL, then AMW Germany may not last all that long after France and Spain get back from holiday. If, on the other hand, they were more or less neutral in the whole thing, that would change things, as would Germany being an active HL supporter. You see what I mean?

Well it isnt your decision now is it. Things change face it. You cannot control everything in this RP. People have their own agendas.

Which they already have, in the form of United Elias, and by extension, Quinntonia and Roycelandia.

I'm not begrudging you the right to make and choose alliances- but I am saying you need to put a bit more thought into it, instead of basing them purely on your OOC friends.

I've put thought into and I have provided examples.

We're happy to help- AMW is a rich and vibrant RP world- but you've got to work with us, and in time hopefully you can see where we're coming from.

Maybe I would be willing to work with you if you didnt try to make us like a book instead of a writer. I will work with you when you will work with me. And all I have gotten from you is critisism. I have been role-playing for a long time. And I hate nothing more when someone tries to control what I do. And that is what it feels like your doing. If you just leave us alone things will pan out. believe me, it always has.

Bloody hell!

What we're looking for in AMW is sensible RP! I think what you new guys are confusing is the fact that AMW is not the real world. You can get away with a whole lot, in fact, Lyong being a prime example. When something is well thought-out, detailed, and interesting, it will probably pass muster. What you need to do, though, is make RPs on the basis of realistic conditions, economic, social, and temporal. You've got to keep that in mind. The whole complexity deal is what we want. Shy away from the basic and take things into the interesting.

On the alliance deal, whatever! But it would be good to explain just why it is that all those nations, geographically, ethnically, and, it appears, governmentally diverse, want to ally with themselves. They do because they do is not good enough. This isn't one of those alternate earths where you pick a country or two and then run away with whatever.

As for all that military equipment dealing, the thing about realistic conditions comes into play again. There isn't the same kind of snappy, seamless transfer that happens in regular NS. You've got to take into account all those messy factors that a country with limited resources needs to pay attention to. Nuclear weapons, well, yes, Israel in RL does have them, and it did proliferate them to South Africa. But in AMW that would be a lot harder for Tel Aviv to get away with, since old Quinn isn't so inclined to look the other way and UE is bitter over Morocco's split. But, as in RL, the acquisition of nuclear weapons by nations located on planet earth is a big deal, one that we tend to not just dandy around like it was a crate of Stens. I don't care if its a bloody free market for arms in this alliance thing, but for god's sake don't send them zipping around the world like radio transmissions and do it in AMW, because if you don't RP it such things might as well not have existed.

As for your colonies, Austria, it still baffles me as to how you even got to them! No coastline, no allies with coastline, fiercely militaristic African nationalists that would jump to send an imperialist frigate down...It seems like you started out with them, and didn't give anybody a chance to react. If AMW was about the fair distribution of NPC countries amongst the PC countries in preparation for warfare like the old colonialists, AMW would be a very different place indeed. So when you do these things, you've got to announce it and, you know, give people a chance to react to it. If such things are even, you know, possible...

But after all that, its important to remember that AMW is just one of the many RPing experiences to be had on NS, so if we tend to be picky its because we've got a lot of area to pick from, and there are a lot of other options. If you don't like this, thats fine, and if you don't want to RP like we want you to RP, more power to you. AMW is not the be-all, end-all of NS RPing, so don't take it too personally when we don't like what you're up to. If you want to be in AMW, you need to read the front page and take it to heart, because that is what the whole house was built on. If we wanted something different, we would have made something different.

One thing, Royce...it might be worthwhile to note that South Africa (in fact, pretty much the whole of Africa), rather overthrew those early colonalists and replaced them with native governments. I can't see the ANC really touting modern South Africa's European founders as anything besides oppressors. Their children did, after all, deprive them of fundamental rights from the moment that the idea was born.


Other than a few things like Israel selling nukes. I believe we have been sensible.

Also the South African has their own nuclear program, but they voluntairly disarmed themselves. I thought about restarting the program. But I have no reason to.

I really like this rp as it has sone sense to it, but you guys are limiting us too much. We are sensible, other than TSS that is, and you have to give us a little time. There is a method to our madness.

Listen, it might be because I'm tired right now but lets just all settle down.

I'm going to talk with TSS and Spiz about the transfer of nukes and stuff. And I'm even trying to negotiate a ceasefire between Morocco and Saharawi because it would allow me to pull Morocco from the Hl's grip.

I am adament about my alliances though. I have put thought into them and I believe that they are alright.


Look, I understand your concers, but by trying to control us too much your making matters a bit worse. As I said before I'm going to talk with TSS, he seems to want to sell everything in his country. Just give me a week and things will pan out.

Well, this is getting way too defensive, indeed!

"There is the little thing that German wanted a Skih PM and people didnt even like that. The little bit about Irsrael and Cyprus."

Some people didn't like it, some people were fine with it. There was a debate, and the German player said that he was fine with it. It's not an issue. Germany wasn't suggesting a Sikh PM -actually they may now have a Sikh leader, nobody has taken issue with that at all!- but a Sikh nation, and that was opposed because it had potential to meddle with the history of other nations that wouldn't be the same without the Nazis' influence on the world. Surely you can see that?

Israel has got Cyprus. So that's not an issue, either, is it?

See, I'm not attacking you, I don't think that anyone is (well, Royce likes to shoot things, so I'm not sure, but most of us aren't ;) ), but it seems that your defensiveness may be based on... problems that don't exist.

Well, this is getting way too defensive, indeed!

"There is the little thing that German wanted a Skih PM and people didnt even like that. The little bit about Irsrael and Cyprus."

Some people didn't like it, some people were fine with it. There was a debate, and the German player said that he was fine with it. It's not an issue. Germany wasn't suggesting a Sikh PM -actually they may now have a Sikh leader, nobody has taken issue with that at all!- but a Sikh nation, and that was opposed because it had potential to meddle with the history of other nations that wouldn't be the same without the Nazis' influence on the world. Surely you can see that?

Israel has got Cyprus. So that's not an issue, either, is it?

See, I'm not attacking you, I don't think that anyone is (well, Royce likes to shoot things, so I'm not sure, but most of us aren't ;) ), but it seems that your defensiveness may be based on... problems that don't exist.


No Space wanted a skith Germany, and then offered to make the skith immigartion after WWII, and then he settled for a Skith PM. And I was pointing the fact that some of you made a fuss with Israel gettign something as small as Cyprus.

And I am being defensive for all of the new guys. lol I just keep on getting caged up vibes from you guys and I dont like this kinda of censorship if you will.

It's not that Cyprus is small. That's a fundamental, here. It's not about military/economic value and about victory and power, but about the dynamic of the community. Cyprus has been used in past RP in the community, and remains of some significance in the current global conflict. I do not think that the new player faced un-due opposition, just a requirement to be understanding and adaptive: he got Cyprus in the end, without having to change much at all. It's the same for everyone- at one point I was going to try to make a Slavic socialist federation with Poland and other nations, but it was pointed out that A) it was too much, and B) Poland has been courted to a limited degree by the HL, and as such it was too difficult to justify socialist revolution with that nation's legacy. It's not just you new guys, this is AMW, we have expectations, we set this community up in order to get something different and, yes, slightly exclusive. That you've been accepted means that you've already got some respect, and you shouldn't feel like outsiders or something, but adaptive members of the community.

It's not that Cyprus is small. That's a fundamental, here. It's not about military/economic value and about victory and power, but about the dynamic of the community. Cyprus has been used in past RP in the community, and remains of some significance in the current global conflict. I do not think that the new player faced un-due opposition, just a requirement to be understanding and adaptive: he got Cyprus in the end, without having to change much at all. It's the same for everyone- at one point I was going to try to make a Slavic socialist federation with Poland and other nations, but it was pointed out that A) it was too much, and B) Poland has been courted to a limited degree by the HL, and as such it was too difficult to justify socialist revolution with that nation's legacy. It's not just you new guys, this is AMW, we have expectations, we set this community up in order to get something different and, yes, slightly exclusive. That you've been accepted means that you've already got some respect, and you shouldn't feel like outsiders or something, but adaptive members of the community.


Geeze I was just asked to point out something small that someone whined about and I provided it. lol Your making it bigger than what is started out to be. The thing is is that when you guys make comment like "Well we got here first" and when you critisize basic things we do, which are reasonable BTW, it does alienate at least me. You have standards yes, but either these standards are way too high and force everyone alike. Or you people just dont like what happening and are trying to rationalize stuff.

But Like I said. I'm going ot talk with TSS and I'm still going to be adament about a few things.

"You guys" being Roycelandia. We're all individuals, here. You guys -the newest members- are almost as much a part of that. Royce doesn't speak for the community, just as an individual with his own concerns. We're not all members of the Armandian Combine ;)

I was bringing up the point that at least I'm feeling like an outsider. I feel like you guys think your better than us and that nothing we can do is right. All this nitpicking doesnt help and comments like that dont either.

I also dont see anyone correcting him or saying something like "give these guys a chance". Everyone is against us.

And you too must realize that we`re individuals too. It seem like Israel's nukes sparked this whole "you newbs suck" convo.

What? You're totally misunderstanding, now. Re-read my post in context, and then read your response. You're looking into your computer screen and seeing some force or entity... I don't understand. I... someone else can take over [runs off]

I dont see how I can say it any clearer. Comments like "Well we were here first." dont help relations between old and new members and makes people feel alienated.

That was only one player, and it doesn't change anything about Yugoslavia's attempts to convey the feeling that you shouldn't regard yourself as an outsider. We don't want ghettos in AMW!

Guys, this could get out of hand, let's stay on top of it. We're all on the same side. The original AMW members set this up to play a game, and now more people are interested in joining in, let's remember that.

To any new players who have problems with the way things are, let me say that you shouldn't panic or worry or whatever. This is a community, and all if its members have to work together in some degree: you have been accepted into the community, now it is merely a matter of mutual integration that we must tackle.

Now, I may be drunk, and it may be gone half seven in the morning (already? How?) but I'm going to keep talking, anyway...

Now, I personally have a lot of respect for Spyr as an intelligent human being (I don't meet many, around my part of the world), so let's go back and re-examine his original post, which, after all, only voiced some concerns.

They were only initial concerns. Nobody's going to get kicked out of the community over this, at the moment, okay?

People are coming into the community, and we're accepting them, and making them parts of it for the future. You can see, though, that there might be a raised eyebrow or two when four or so new nations turn up at once and immediately set to invisible behind-the-scenes association in-character, despite their disperate national models. Some may have concerns -that's all- about whether or not this is going to remain in keeping with the AMW theory. We don't know you, that's all, you're all new to us, and we may worry that people will come in and turn AMW into just another "Earth ##".

Do you see, from the established community's point of view, how it might look a little odd if Argentina-Chile-Paraguay, Germany, Morocco, Israel-Cyprus-Lebanon, and SouthAfrica-Lesotho-Swaziland arrive in quick succession and do things that nobody else can see? Some may worry that they're hardly part of the community, and more one of their own, when there really are wider world-environment issues to be taken into account.

If I'm honest, I feel that Roycelandia may be a touch over protective in some respects, but all other respondents so far have been entirely reasonable.

We're not saying that you can't do X, Y, Z, please understand that. Your nation is your nation... it just may have a legacy, and it certainly has a place in the wider world.

Germany got its Sikh leader (if he chooses to RP that?), Israel got Cyprus, South Africa got Lesotho and Swaziland, Morocco got to break Baghdad's influence. There's some give and take. The community gives everything that the player wants, so long as the player doesn't take the foundations out from under any other members of the community.

We're all E-friends, and I look forward to RPing with a lot of these new guys. Some of you seem like intelligent people, and from what little I've seen you seem to be competent RPers, especially the likes of Space Union, I think.



Now, I say, if anyone has any specific issues that they wish to raise, please do it here and now, so that we can smooth things out. I want all this to be sorted, and RP to continue. Thanks for reading!

We're not all members of the Armandian Combine ;)

Not yet, anyhow...

You know, the whole Israel/Cyprus thing is making me uncomfortable. Could someone have asked me? In the past, I have RPed both as an evil Turkish empire attacking the place and the Turkish warlords on it (I ended up throwing myself out) and it doesn't seem right. Look, it has been used in multiple RP's before. TSS, I like you, I like you idea, but this doesn't seem right.

That as it may, I'm fine with the idea and will follow our esteemed overlord/master/MaxBarry/FatherKnowsBest/Dra-Pol.

That was only one player, and it doesn't change anything about Yugoslavia's attempts to convey the feeling that you shouldn't regard yourself as an outsider. We don't want ghettos in AMW!

Guys, this could get out of hand, let's stay on top of it. We're all on the same side. The original AMW members set this up to play a game, and now more people are interested in joining in, let's remember that.

To any new players who have problems with the way things are, let me say that you shouldn't panic or worry or whatever. This is a community, and all if its members have to work together in some degree: you have been accepted into the community, now it is merely a matter of mutual integration that we must tackle.

Now, I may be drunk, and it may be gone half seven in the morning (already? How?) but I'm going to keep talking, anyway...

Now, I personally have a lot of respect for Spyr as an intelligent human being (I don't meet many, around my part of the world), so let's go back and re-examine his original post, which, after all, only voiced some concerns.

They were only initial concerns. Nobody's going to get kicked out of the community over this, at the moment, okay?

People are coming into the community, and we're accepting them, and making them parts of it for the future. You can see, though, that there might be a raised eyebrow or two when four or so new nations turn up at once and immediately set to invisible behind-the-scenes association in-character, despite their disperate national models. Some may have concerns -that's all- about whether or not this is going to remain in keeping with the AMW theory. We don't know you, that's all, you're all new to us, and we may worry that people will come in and turn AMW into just another "Earth ##".

Do you see, from the established community's point of view, how it might look a little odd if Argentina-Chile-Paraguay, Germany, Morocco, Israel-Cyprus-Lebanon, and SouthAfrica-Lesotho-Swaziland arrive in quick succession and do things that nobody else can see? Some may worry that they're hardly part of the community, and more one of their own, when there really are wider world-environment issues to be taken into account.

If I'm honest, I feel that Roycelandia may be a touch over protective in some respects, but all other respondents so far have been entirely reasonable.

We're not saying that you can't do X, Y, Z, please understand that. Your nation is your nation... it just may have a legacy, and it certainly has a place in the wider world.

Germany got its Sikh leader (if he chooses to RP that?), Israel got Cyprus, South Africa got Lesotho and Swaziland, Morocco got to break Baghdad's influence. There's some give and take. The community gives everything that the player wants, so long as the player doesn't take the foundations out from under any other members of the community.

We're all E-friends, and I look forward to RPing with a lot of these new guys. Some of you seem like intelligent people, and from what little I've seen you seem to be competent RPers, especially the likes of Space Union, I think.



Now, I say, if anyone has any specific issues that they wish to raise, please do it here and now, so that we can smooth things out. I want all this to be sorted, and RP to continue. Thanks for reading!

Wait. Thats it! The Name! We've been looking for a name for this alliance and I think I just found it. The Iluminati! It's perfect.

lol Sorry, I had to say that. Yeah I was pretty tired last nihgt guys and I might of been a bit blunt because of it. I'm sry. I just cant stand trying to be controled and such. As least when I'm doing what I see as being in reason. TSS isn't online yet, but like I said, I'll talk to him when he gets on.

And this alliance thing. Originally is was just going to be me, Space, and TSS but then Fran approached us. I was kind of sketchy on the idea of the SC join in aswell as I dont see what it wants across the sea with us. I'll see what I can work out with that aswell.

Yeah, its no sweat then, man. Just RP it next time.

You're all surely good RPers, and with some time you'll probably become more acquainted with our way of doing things. I'll just ask you not to take offense when actions are critiqued because there is, more often than not, a very good reason behind it, and this being an open community do not take it as an insult when you are called upon to explain certain behavior.

Do pretty much whatever you want (within the realm of possibility), but always RP it. Things need RP depth and they need to be explained through RP. Explanation might be as simple as, "my president is in love with the Moroccan King's daughter," or something, but don't just leave it to be assumed.

Dont mean to be annoying....but is Cameroon a go?

May I as who, if anyone, controls the United States, or its equivelent?

I think the list on the front page my need some updating.

May I as who, if anyone, controls the United States, or its equivelent?

I think the list on the front page my need some updating.

The United States of Quinntonia is the AMW version of the US, albeit an isolationist, fundamentalist Christian one.

Well is he active? I havent seen him post recently.....