NationStates Jolt Archive

That's a bunch of BS for anyone with any knowledge of Religion knows that Judaism is among the Big 3. Remember we all come from the seed of Abraham.

Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism are consider the three major universalizing religions. Hinduism and Judaism are consider enthnic religions. Top three as far as numbers are Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism I believe. The three faiths of Abraham are Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.

How about this thread for starters?
I don't see how this thread is hateful.

The three faiths of Abraham are Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.

Thanks for proving my point. I call them the big three for that reason.

I don't see how this thread is hateful.

Saying that Israel is worse then nazis is not hatred? Ranting on about the so called "invasion" is not hatred when it is their own ancestrial homeland? Wanting the Jewish state dismantled is not hateful? I think you have been brainwashed by your own religion.

I don't see how this thread is hateful.
No cheese? You're saying Israel is the equivalent (or just about) of a party that killed at least10 million people? That's pretty hateful, if I ever heard it. Considering that Israel never did do this.

I don't see how this thread is hateful.

The very idea of trying to compare Nazi Germany to Israel implies hatred right there.

The very idea of trying to compare Nazi Germany to Israel implies hatred right there.

no it doesn't. It compares to very comparable things yet most won't admit.

no it doesn't. It compares to very comparable things yet most won't admit.

So, uh...


Where are the Israeli deathcamps? The mounds of bodies in graves, the gas chambers, the millions of pieces of paperwork that document to an anal degree the Nazi 'Final Solution'?

Come now. Israel may not exactly be squeaky clean in matters of warfare and dealing with other nations, but to compare that country to Nazi Germany is absurd.

both pro and anti-israelis are saying the nazis are wosre. why? because of the huge death toll. agreed?
by that logic, can the pro-israelis see that thats why the israelis are in the wrong? they have so much more civilians than than even the plaestinian terrorists.

Islam is the words of one man, on his own, in a cave where he claimed to have visions of God.



Johnny Cash is mohammed?

Johnny Cash is mohammed?

i knew it! :eek:

as saviours go thast pretty good.
*coverts to islam*

by that logic, can the pro-israelis see that thats why the israelis are in the wrong? they have so much more civilians than than even the plaestinian terrorists.

Which has been explained but you just do not want to look at the facts on why that is the case.

Top three as far as numbers are Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism I believe.
just finishing up my intro to humanities class and the book says judiasm, christianity and islam are the top 3.

The three faiths of Abraham are Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.
that is also correct... and i don't know if you did it on purpose, but i find it funny that you put islam first. Are you aware that the 3 major faiths all come from the same God?

I don't see how this thread is hateful.
perhaps not hateful, but definitely uninformed. How could you compare jews to nazi's?

Comparing anyone to Nazis, worlds biggest genocidal group in history is hateful.
Its like saying "I don't see how me comparing your wife to that 20$ whore is insulting"

There are many reasons for this odd western phenomena known as anti-semitism. But one of those reasons can be anwsered with a rethorical question:

Given the choice either blame all your worries, problems and issues on yourself due to the result of your incompitence or the choice to blame it all on "the other guy", you'd be suprised how tempting it is to go for the latter...

well said. Its always someone elses fault.

for people that say that the holocaust is false or exagerated.

mobile killing squads.
http://www.rumbula.org/einsatzgruppen_latvia.shtml

Rudolf Höss
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1946Hoess.html

CIA info
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/05/nara050802.html


oh and about religion.
Judaism is considered a major religion for historical and cultural reasons.
But that is not the same as a major world religion as people tend to look at the number of adherents. But honestly who cares whether you religion at 10 members or 1 billion?

the main difference is, that the Nazis were fiercely expansionist and Israel is just defending its status. ... it's nonsense to compare them, because of the very different reasons why they fight.

but furthermore the Nazis have a unique status in human history for the cold-blooded industrial murder of millions of people. it's a crime probably (and hopefully) unobtainable ever for anybody.

as a German I have to add: another big difference is, that the Third Reich was a very oppressive totalitarian regime while Israel offers its people many civil and democratic liberties. so despite its nationalist (maybe racist) outward policy it's quite good on the inside.

as I find the situation in Palestine there are two aggressors, just that the one fraction is much weaker than the other and fails to see that.

just finishing up my intro to humanities class and the book says judiasm, christianity and islam are the top 3.


Top 3 in terms of numbers of followers? Because if thats what your professor is teaching I say smack him for giving you a crappy education by assigning that book. Judaism doesn't have any where near the numbers of followers of Hinduism or buddhism who both trail Islam and Christianity. On a side note, Islam is growing and faster than any other religion in the world.

that is also correct... and i don't know if you did it on purpose, but i find it funny that you put islam first. Are you aware that the 3 major faiths all come from the same God?
yep, which is why is doesnt matter which religion I put 1st. Islam is special so it gets the number one slot;)

perhaps not hateful, but definitely uninformed. How could you compare jews to nazi's?
because there are comparsions to be made

no it doesn't. It compares to very comparable things yet most won't admit.

Its not comparable. The Isralies have advanced in territory only when they have been attacked, not in an agressive manner

On a side note, Islam is growing and faster than any other religion in the world.

Mainly because a vast majority in muslim countries would kill those who convert from Islam to another religion. As was demonstrated of late with the case in Afghanistan. It was only thanks to extreme international pressure that he was stopped.

Its not comparable. The Isralies have advanced in territory only when they have been attacked, not in an agressive manner



Mainly because a vast majority in muslim countries would kill those who convert from Islam to another religion. As was demonstrated of late with the case in Afghanistan. It was only thanks to extreme international pressure that he was stopped.

great view of the world you got there.
*claps*

I wouldn't doubt if you were in one of those pogroms together with your lover David Duke ( AKA: KKK man).
Obviously, you're anti-Semitic, and racist ...and who knows what else!
At first I thought you were arguing just for the heck of it. But now, I have a feeling that you're expressing hatred, in a more "friendly fashion", without the "!@!@#$ you all" comments, but by questioning the facts of the Holocaust, and by claiming that Israel is an "evil" country trying to oppress the Palestinians...etc.
You can post further, but it will not change my opinion of you. In fact, it will probably make it worse.
I feel sorry for the "normal people" who have to put up with you personally...you really ought to change your way of viewing things, but that probably won't happen, because you're also in denial.

I think you've pressed the quote of the wrong person. Read my posts, I havent been arguing Israel is evil, rather the oposite. I havent said any of that, I think you mean Sovietstan. I'm Neo Sanderstead

great view of the world you got there.
*claps*

Now point out where he is wrong.

Its not comparable. The Isralies have advanced in territory only when they have been attacked, not in an agressive manner
So, you wouldn't count continued colonisation as at least partially aggressive?

great view of the world you got there.
*claps*

Sarcasm alone is foolish. If you have a point to make, then make it. If you want my clairfication when I said "not in an agressive manner" I was refering to the fact that Israel does not invade other countries seeking to expand. It has counter attacked in response to attacks by Arab states

So, you wouldn't count continued colonisation as at least partially aggressive?

Not when I consider the fact that Israel has been willing on many occasions to offer the Palesitians the west bank and Gaza. If Israel were being agressive they could do far worse things

I think you've pressed the quote of the wrong person. Read my posts, I havent been arguing Israel is evil, rather the oposite. I havent said any of that, I think you mean Sovietstan. I'm Neo Sanderstead


:eek: My bad!....Sorry!...I'm going to repost this to Sovietstan!

Not when I consider the fact that Israel has been willing on many occasions to offer the Palesitians the west bank and Gaza. If Israel were being agressive they could do far worse things

Yes, its completely fair if somebody goes where you live, moves in, draws up a few lines, then lets you to have a minority of it.

I "clicked" on the wrong quote, by mistake. This is to Soviestan!

I wouldn't doubt if you were in one of those pogroms together with your lover David Duke ( AKA: KKK man).
Obviously, you're anti-Semitic, and racist ...and who knows what else!
At first I thought you were arguing just for the heck of it. But now, I have a feeling that you're expressing hatred, in a more "friendly fashion", without the "!@!@#$ you all" comments, but by questioning the facts of the Holocaust, and by claiming that Israel is an "evil" country trying to oppress the Palestinians...etc.
You can post further, but it will not change my opinion of you. In fact, it will probably make it worse.
I feel sorry for the "normal people" who have to put up with you personally...you really ought to change your way of viewing things, but that probably won't happen, because you're also in denial.

Yes, its completely fair if somebody goes where you live, moves in, draws up a few lines, then lets you to have a minority of it.

thats reason one for the claping comment.

second is for the islamophobia.

people like AC2 should be aware of my opinions by now.

Yes, its completely fair if somebody goes where you live, moves in, draws up a few lines, then lets you to have a minority of it.

1. The Jews did not go "where you live". They originally moved to the unocupied regions, and bought up land held by absentee land lords and debt ridden peasnts. Gradually they expanded beyond that land, and no one made a fuss. They built towns and cities in the land that was once theirs

2. The Jews were not the ones to draw the lines. The UN did that, with good reason. After the holocaust being the most recent example of a phonominaon that had plagued the world since the Jewish dispaora fled into Europe, Asia and North Africa, anti-semetic persecution was rife for centuries. It is clear that the Jews could not continue to be guests in others countries. They needed somewhere to call their own. It seemed logical to put it there, as after all, it is where they originally came from and also it was where a state had been developing de facto for over 50 years

3. The Jews were not a minority, but they did recieve a minority of the land. They got a much smaller Israel than they have now, and it has only enlarged becasue of outside attacks.

2. The Jews were not the ones to draw the lines. The UN did that, with good reason. After the holocaust being the most recent example of a phonominaon that had plagued the world since the Jewish dispaora fled into Europe, Asia and North Africa, anti-semetic persecution was rife for centuries. It is clear that the Jews could not continue to be guests in others countries. They needed somewhere to call their own. It seemed logical to put it there, as after all, it is where they originally came from and also it was where a state had been developing de facto for over 50 years


Why not put it in Germany? The germans did something, and Europe could defend it from all attacks.

The Nazis are definatly worse. My main reason was the Holocaust which was a nightmare and a horrible event. Also, the idealism of the Nazis was obsurd and almost didnt make sense besides the idea of everybody having complete quality which didnt work out anyway. Even thoguh Israel has been the cause of a lot of incidents, in my mind Hitler and the Nazis' were worse.

The Nazis are definatly worse. My main reason was the Holocaust which was a nightmare and a horrible event. Also, the idealism of the Nazis was obsurd and almost didnt make sense besides the idea of everybody having complete quality which didnt work out anyway. Even thoguh Israel has been the cause of a lot of incidents, in my mind Hitler and the Nazis' were worse.

Agreed.

Why not put it in Germany? The germans did something, and Europe could defend it from all attacks.

Because thats not where the Jews come from, and its not where, for the past fifty/sixty years they had been building a de-facto state. Tel Aviv, Jerusalem etc, they are all places where the Jewish community in the region was being revived and rebuilt and it was not stealing anyones land. The Jews have an anchient link going back to the region long before the word Palestine even existed. The word itself was created by the Romans in order to disascoiate Jewish national idenity from the region after the Jewish revolt of AD70 aprox.

To put it in Germany would be like putting Kurdistan in Canada or the Basque state in Japan. They have nothing to do with one another, they do not belong there. It is not where they are from. The UN created a state that was more than fair to the Palestians post 1948. The Jews accepted it because they got something, the Palestinians didnt accept it because they didnt get everything. They and the other Arab states have repeatdly attacked Israel and every time, Israel has just gotten bigger.

Wow, this is now the third largest thread in NSG which has not been deleted.

thats reason one for the claping comment.

second is for the islamophobia.

people like AC2 should be aware of my opinions by now.

We are. It is surprising that you denounce us for questioning your opinions whereas we denounce those who denounce an historical fact and then you have the balls to tell us that we are stifling speech.

can't have your cake and eat it too.

Its not comparable. The Isralies have advanced in territory only when they have been attacked, not in an agressive manner.

Building civillian colonies in said territories, a two-tier system of justice, no Geneva convention applied to Arab inhabitants?


1. The Jews did not go "where you live". They originally moved to the unocupied regions, and bought up land held by absentee land lords and debt ridden peasnts. Gradually they expanded beyond that land, and no one made a fuss. They built towns and cities in the land that was once theirs.

A massive 7% of what was then the Mandate of Palestine. A fact you seem too allergic to, to mention.

Why not put it in Germany? The germans did something, and Europe could defend it from all attacks.

1) Because Germany is not the ancestrial homeland of the Jews.

2) Read up on history in regards to the relationship between jews and europeans.

I can't believe I am hearing this you ignorant prick! (starter of thread) Where are the Israeli death camps? Did the Jews in Europe ever attack the Nazis? Are 8 million Palestinians dead?
I deplore much of Israeli policy and fervently hope they withdraw from the settlements and use NGO's to help rebuild the country they have shattered but they're no Nazis. It's such a shame that people like you (rabid-Israeli haters) can't see the difference between oppressive and genocidal. What's so bad about Israel anyway? It's a (not) secular (enough yet), democratic oasis in the midst of an ocean of islamofascism, corruption and nepotism. It's doing things wrong and should be corrected but to draw comaprisons with the most evil and third most bloodthirsty regime in human history sickens me. I'm going to Auschwitz next year, perhaps if you smell the ashes you might change your mind....

1) Because Germany is not the ancestrial homeland of the Jews.

2) Read up on history in regards to the relationship between jews and europeans.

1) So we should push all the Americans into half of the country and give the rest to the Native Americans?

2) I have. Europeans historically didn't like them. The Arabs currently don't either.

1) So we should push all the Americans into half of the country and give the rest to the Native Americans?

2) I have. Europeans historically didn't like them. The Arabs currently don't either.

You forgot Mel Gibson. :p

You forgot Mel Gibson. :p

You're right.. I should add him to the list.

2) I have. Europeans historically didn't like them. The Arabs currently don't either.

Well the Arabs have a claim to the land as well however, the Jews were there before the Arabs.

1) So we should push all the Americans into half of the country and give the rest to the Native Americans?

2) I have. Europeans historically didn't like them. The Arabs currently don't either.


Good point!
America is not giving/offering half of its land, because the Native Americans are not on a killing rampage. Blowing people up..etc. Basically, Native Americans are not doing what the Palestinians are doing. They are living more or less peacefully, but in poverty.
Even though, "Americans" expanded, and killed many Native Americans, basically "occupied" the land.

Both regimes carried out an occupation they deemed as just, but the international community did not. Both setup ghettos, roadblocks and curfews for the occupied, those who break curfew get shot in the street with tanks. Both were racist regimes who operate(d) with a sense of superiority. Both committed mass killings and slaughters including of women and children. Both used the holocaust as justification or propaganda for their actions. Both are hated by the international community and invaded their neighbours. And both are feircely militaristic.

Its a very close race but the Nazis haven't been around for 60 years and only lasted around 20. The regime of Israel is still around and has been for 60 years. Its close, but I say Israel takes this one. your thoughts?

How you properly compare brutality may be subjective, but in this case, just for fun, I'll assume that a higher body count is evidence of "worst."

First, let's determine just how many people have been killed by the State of Israel. Then, we can compare that to number of people killed by the Nazi regime. It was quite a search, but assuming that wikipedia contains accurate data regarding the conflict (you may confirm these figures with the wikipedia articles' sources if you wish). In the spirit of fairness, I will assume that the maximum estimates of deaths caused by Isreal are correct. I will of course ignore the amount of Israeli or Jewish persons who have died in each conflict.

Shall we?

TIMELINE:

(Before the establishment of the State of Israel, but we'll count them anyway)
1920 Palestinian riots:
4 Arabs killed; 23 Arabs and 7 British soldiers wounded.

May 1, 1921: Jaffa riots
48 Arabs killed; 73 Arabs wounded.

1929 Palestinian riots:
116 Arabs were killed and 232 wounded (mostly by British-commanded police and soliders, but we'll say that the Israelis killed them all instead).
3 Arabs were sentenced to death and hanged for crimes relating to the riots.

June 19, 1930
20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa.

June 29, 1930
13 Arabs were killed in multiple shootings during one-hour period.

1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine
By the time order was restored in March of 1939, more than 5,000 Arabs and 200 Britons were killed.

July 22, 1946: King David Hotel bombing by Irgun
91 people were killed.

December 30, 1947: Haifa Oil Refinery massacre
Irgun attacts Haifa Oil Refinery, killing 6 workers and wounding 42.
Haganah raids villages in retaliation to Arab retaliation; 21-70 arabs killed (we'll use the high estimate).


(Israel becomes a state)
1948 Arab-Israeli war
Arab casualties estimated between 5,000 and 15,000 (again, we'll use the 15,000 figure).

Qibya massacre, October 14, 1953
Over 60 Qibya villagers were killed by Israeli military forces. 2,700 villagers evacuated due to prior warning, but let's assume that they were also killed by Israel.

Six-Day war, 1967
Arab casualties: 21,000 killed, 45,000 wounded, 6,000 taken prisoner.

War of Attrition, 1968-1970
10,000 Egyptian soldiers and civilians killed. 3 Soviet pilots killed.

1973 Israeli raid on Lebanon
12-100 PLO members killed in action. 3 civilian casualties.

Yom Kippur War, October 6 – October 26, 1973
Arab casualties:
8,528 killed, 19,540 wounded (Western analysis)
15,000 dead, 35,000 wounded (Israeli analysis, which we'll use, since it's higher)

Savoy Operation, 1975
7 palestinians killed, 1 captured.

Operation Entebbe, 1976:
Palestinian terrorists hijack an airplane bound for Israel. 6 Hijackers and 1 hostage killed by Israeli forces. 45 Ugandan soldiers also killed.

1978 South Lebanon conflict
1,100-2,000 Lebanese killed.

June 7, 1981: Operation Opera
Israeli airstrike on the Iraqi Osirak nuclear reactor kills 11.

July 17, 1981
Israel bombs PLO headquarters, which had been located in a civilian area of Beirut and caused more than 300 civilian deaths.

1982 Lebanon War
9,800 arab casualties

1982 Sabra and Shatila massacre: Lebanese Maronite militias massacre Palestinian refugees. Israel technically had nothing to do with this, but let's add these numbers anyway.
2 combatants and 700-3,500 civilians die.

October 1, 1985: Operation Wooden Leg
60 PLO members killed in combat.

December 27, 1985
Fatah - Revolutionary Council gunmen attempt hijacking of El Al jets. 6 of the terrorists captured or killed.

First Intifada
1,162 Palestinian killed by the time the Oslo Accords were signed in 1993.

February 25, 1994: Cave of the Patriarchs massacre
Baruch Goldstein kills a total of 29 Palestinian Muslims and injures another 125.


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-Palestinian_conflict_timeline


(A look at more recent events)
Palestinian casualties from 2000-2006:
4,379 total deaths
31,142 total injuries

Source: http://www.palestinercs.org/crisistables/table_of_figures.htm

177 Palestinian Prisoners Killed Since 1967

Source: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/prisoners-killed.html

2006 Israeli-Lebanon conflict

Hezbollah and Lebanese casualties, both civilian and military:
2,121+ dead (let's round up to the nearest thousand, so, 3,000 dead)
5,601+ wounded (6,000)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict

WHEW! Now let's add up the numbers (feel free to check my arithmatic):

4
23
7
48
73
116
232
3
20
13
5,000
200
91
6
42
70
15,000
60
2,700
21,000
45,000
6,000
10,000
3
100
3
15,000
35,000
7
1
6
1
45
2,000
11
300
2
3,500
60
6
1,162
29
125
4,379
31,142
177
3,000
+ 6,000

Total (including the number of injured): 207,767

That number doesn't seem high enough to me, so I'll add in the population of Monaco (35,657), the total number of Star Trek episodes ever made (727) and the number of hits the word 'taramasalata' gets on google (55,000). The total now becomes 299,151. Now let's double it, just in case I missed anything. The final figure is 598,302, which is equal to about ten percent of the number of Jews killed by the Nazis in the Holocaust.

A brief look at the Nazis' numbers:

Total military and civilian casualties of World War II (excluding the Holocaust): 56,783,700 (Not all of these were caused by the German army, of course, so we'll ignore it)

Death toll of the Holocaust, the intentional and systematic genocide which was ordered and carried out by the Nazi regime:
5,754,000

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

Perhaps instead you would argue that the definition of "worse" stems from the rate of death, not the actual figures. Which is a fair argument to make, since Israel has not been around for the same amount of time as the Nazis were in power. This is easy, just divide the total deaths caused by each by the time over which they occured to produce the average rate.

5,754,000 / 12 years (duration of Nazi rule in Germany) = 479,500 deaths per year for the Nazis.
598,302 / 68 years (duration of Israel's existence) = 8799 deaths per year for Israel (less than 2% of the Nazis' rate).

Mathematics simply does not convey falsehoods. I'm afraid you lose.

And, because I spent all this time on a reply to an ultimately meaningless debate on an internet forum, I also lose. :(

So, on the basis of the above, I vote Nazi. Wait - what did I just say?

The smilies on this forum are kinda cute.

[QUOTE=Ginnoria;12086455]5,754,000 / 12 years (duration of Nazi rule in Germany) = 479,500 deaths per year for the Nazis.
598,302 / 68 years (duration of Israel's existence) = 8799 deaths per year for Israel (less than 2% of the Nazis' rate). QUOTE]

You are forgetting of course that most of the nazi killings were conducted in a three year period 1942-1945. You also didn't mention the two million soviet POWs, homosexuals ect that were killed by the Nazis
7,754,00 / 3 years = 2,584,667 dead per year. Therefore the Israeli rate is even smaller compared to the Nazi one.

I never did get the hand of this dammed quoting. Anyone able to help?

I used to be rather blindly pro-Israel, and had to learn to reconsider after learning more about historic occupations in other countries, especially those perpetrated by Britain and other colonialist powers.

Now, I'm not so much pro-Israel as I am saddened and disgusted by the whole situation that exists there. The current nation of Israel was formed from Arab-held lands, yes, but it's frankly a stupid statement to say that the nation as it exists is illegal and that all of its Jewish occupants should be deported.

Deported to where? It's just not that simple. And "pushing the Jews into the sea" is no more a possibility that will be accepted by the international community than bombing all of the Arab nations into docility. Not that such a thing could be done.

Comparing the Israeli government to the Nazi regime of Hitler's Germany is poorly thought-out propaganda without any real substance, as hundreds of posts here have demonstrated.

You know, all I really wanted to say was that there should be a spellchecker for these forums. I'm going to cry if I see "simular" one more time. I will cry.

:)

I have been following this thread, and it appears as if Soviestan is suffering from an irrational hatred, or strong dislike, of the Jews. This is no doubt because of an unwillingness to let go of what he has come to believe during the course of his life.

So we should push all the Americans into half of the country and give the rest to the Native Americans?
The "Native" Americans didn't conquer the land from the "non-Native" Americans. It was the opposite. Now you could say that the Jews didn't conquer their land back to begin their nation again, either. Also true. However, (Now correct me if I'm wrong. We wouldn't want bad data to be spread all over this site.) the occupying British gave the land back to them. In the following wars, Israel then conquered much of the surrounding lands.

How you properly compare brutality may be subjective, but in this case, just for fun, I'll assume that a higher body count is evidence of "worst."
If that doesn't silence this argument, I don't know what will. If not, then I would have to assume the first premise I made in this post to be true.

[QUOTE=Ginnoria;12086455]5,754,000 / 12 years (duration of Nazi rule in Germany) = 479,500 deaths per year for the Nazis.
598,302 / 68 years (duration of Israel's existence) = 8799 deaths per year for Israel (less than 2% of the Nazis' rate). QUOTE]

You are forgetting of course that most of the nazi killings were conducted in a three year period 1942-1945. You also didn't mention the two million soviet POWs, homosexuals ect that were killed by the Nazis
7,754,00 / 3 years = 2,584,667 dead per year. Therefore the Israeli rate is even smaller compared to the Nazi one.

Indeed. Also, the figures for the Nazis do not include military engagements, injuries, or acts of terrorism (such as with Baruch Goldstein) that were not ordered by the state.

However, I endeavor to ensure that my arguments are free from bias. Any overestimation of Israel's sins simply proves the point even further.

I never did get the hand of this dammed quoting. Anyone able to help?

I believe that you missed the opening bracket on your closing quote tag. I just use the 'quote' button on the post that I want to respond to, it usually works.

I never did get the hand of this dammed quoting. Anyone able to help?


Sure.
When you see text you want to quote, you can click on the "quote button"...bottom right of the text you want to quote.

Or while you're typing the your message;
You type [ Q U O T E ] before the text you want to quote, and
[ / Q U O T E ] to finish the quote.
Note: I pute space in the [ Q...so that you can see...you should type [QUOTE].....[/QUOT...etc.

Hope my explanation was clear enough.

I used to be rather blindly pro-Israel, and had to learn to reconsider after learning more about historic occupations in other countries, especially those perpetrated by Britain and other colonialist powers.

Now, I'm not so much pro-Israel as I am saddened and disgusted by the whole situation that exists there. The current nation of Israel was formed from Arab-held lands, yes, but it's frankly a stupid statement to say that the nation as it exists is illegal and that all of its Jewish occupants should be deported.

Deported to where? It's just not that simple. And "pushing the Jews into the sea" is no more a possibility that will be accepted by the international community than bombing all of the Arab nations into docility. Not that such a thing could be done.

Comparing the Israeli government to the Nazi regime of Hitler's Germany is poorly thought-out propaganda without any real substance, as hundreds of posts here have demonstrated.

You know, all I really wanted to say was that there should be a spellchecker for these forums. I'm going to cry if I see "simular" one more time. I will cry.

:)
What's with the British bashing? Out of all the imperialists we were the most humane. We did bad things cetainly... but God did you see what the Belgians were doing?!

Sure.
When you see text you want to quote, you can click on the "quote button"...bottom right of the text you want to quote.

Or while you're typing the your message;
You type [ Q U O T E ] before the text you want to quote, and
[ / Q U O T E ] to finish the quote.
Note: I pute space in the [ Q...so that you can see...you should type [QUOTE].....[/QUOT...etc.

Hope my explanation was clear enough.

Durechis - you legend! Thankyou

What's with the British bashing? Out of all the imperialists we were the most humane. We did bad things cetainly... but God did you see what the Belgians were doing?!

I think it's because we're credited with the creation of the concentration camp during the Boer war and a lot of people blame us for Israel too. Though I personally consider myself Scottish, I understand I'm technically British.

Mattorn;12086506']
The "Native" Americans didn't conquer the land from the "non-Native" Americans. It was the opposite. Now you could say that the Jews didn't conquer their land back to begin their nation again, either. Also true. However, (Now correct me if I'm wrong. We wouldn't want bad data to be spread all over this site.) the occupying British gave the land back to them. In the following wars, Israel then conquered much of the surrounding lands.


1) That post was in response to to the arguement that they should get Israel because it was their ancestral homeland.

2) So you're saying that might makes right?

I'm not saying Jews shouldn't have a state, I just think that putting it in Germany would have been a much better idea. The British had helped conquer that too.

I think it's because we're credited with the creation of the concentration camp during the Boer war and a lot of people blame us for Israel too. Though I personally consider myself Scottish, I understand I'm technically British.
yeah but we invented the concentration camp as in the true sense of 'concentrating' a group in one place. The Nazis really ran death camps...not concentration camps although I'm not absolving us for the invention of said concentration camp, a nasty invetion in itself.
"Naughty!" (slaps wrist)

What's with the British bashing? Out of all the imperialists we were the most humane. We did bad things cetainly... but God did you see what the Belgians were doing?!

Oh, I'm not trying to raise a fuss about the British occupations. It's just that those are the ones I've studied the most, especially in the context of Ireland and India. Certainly, the French, Dutch, Belgians, Americans, and other powers all took part in imperialism; it's just easiest to point to the Brits. :)

Yes, its completely fair if somebody goes where you live, moves in, draws up a few lines, then lets you to have a minority of it.

Many of the so called Arab residents also moved in at the same time the Jews did. I really don't have sympathy.

Many of the so called Arab residents also moved in at the same time the Jews did. I really don't have sympathy.

Yep, the Arab population in the area quadrupled during the years of Aliyah.

Many of the so called Arab residents also moved in at the same time the Jews did. I really don't have sympathy.

Then who was living there at the before that?

Then who was living there at the before that?

Bedouins

2) So you're saying that might makes right?
I'm saying that "fair and square might" makes right. It's not Israel's fault that the British conquered most of the Middle East and then gave them land, and it's also not Israel's fault that they conquered extra land in an all-out war against their Arab enemies. :)

Bedouins

Well then the original inhabitants still aren't getting their share.

Well then the original inhabitants still aren't getting their share.

Bedouins still live in Israel. I'm in fact going to be staying at a Bedouin run resort in the Negev in a couple of weeks.

Bedouins still live in Israel. I'm in fact going to be staying at a Bedouin run resort in the Negev in a couple of weeks.
Do they have major political control?

And have a nice time there.

Both regimes carried out an occupation they deemed as just, but the international community did not. Both setup ghettos, roadblocks and curfews for the occupied, those who break curfew get shot in the street with tanks. Both were racist regimes who operate(d) with a sense of superiority. Both committed mass killings and slaughters including of women and children. Both used the holocaust as justification or propaganda for their actions. Both are hated by the international community and invaded their neighbours. And both are feircely militaristic.

Its a very close race but the Nazis haven't been around for 60 years and only lasted around 20. The regime of Israel is still around and has been for 60 years. Its close, but I say Israel takes this one. your thoughts?


Funny how you don't mention that Israel is threatened by the other Arab powers if it doesn't have one side of the Jordan and the Golan Heights, the posession of which gives you dominance over the countryside they loom over.

And it's funny how the Palestinian Resistance hasn't really hit political targets yet, only religious and civilians ones, and they make it clear that they hate Jews.

What? Are you going to say now that the Jews were racist against Hitler, just to keep your analogy intact? Let alone anyone with a tenuous knowledge of political science would classify Hamas as "Fascist", since they envision a Sunni *not Shi'a, Sufi, or otherwise* Islamic empire that stretches from Morocco to Pakistan?

Fool.

Do they have major political control?

And have a nice time there.

I don't know the number of Bedouins in the Knesset, but I do know that around 15% of the Knesset seats are held by Arabs.

Oh, I'm not trying to raise a fuss about the British occupations. It's just that those are the ones I've studied the most, especially in the context of Ireland and India. Certainly, the French, Dutch, Belgians, Americans, and other powers all took part in imperialism; it's just easiest to point to the Brits. :)

That and it drives everyone crazy how such a small country managed to get their hands on so many colonies. I think we Scots have to takethe blame for a portion of that. After the Jacobite uprising a lot of us did a fair bit of military service to demonstrate our allegiance to the winners who after a few name changes became the Windsors.

That and it drives everyone crazy how such a small country managed to get their hands on so many colonies. I think we Scots have to takethe blame for a portion of that. After the Jacobite uprising a lot of us did a fair bit of military service to demonstrate our allegiance to the winners who after a few name changes became the Windsors.

Well, that's just sort of the way things go up there. Ireland did pretty much the same thing; Geoffrey Keating developed an entire thesis supporting the Stuart monarch of England, and legitimized the occupation of Ireland... but then that all went to hell when James was supplanted in the Williamite wars. It's bungle after bungle, all while people are just trying to survive in an ever-changing environment.

/hijack

Anyone like beer?

I like beer

http://www.cargal.org/images/gallery/albums/album50/BEER.jpg

I don't know the number of Bedouins in the Knesset, but I do know that around 15% of the Knesset seats are held by Arabs.

When compared to what percentage of the population?

When compared to what percentage of the population?

Arabs make up between 17-20% of the population.

Arabs make up between 17-20% of the population.
Of the entire population of the land that was formerly held by Britain?

When compared to what percentage of the population?

I'm sorry but I have to call bullshit on any use of % of elected representatives ethnicity/belief compared to a % of the population in terms of ethnicity or belief. It's founded on the unproven assumption that said % would only vote for those of the same ethnicity and belief and maybe I'm just an optimist but I like to believe that a fair bit of humanity has moved beyond that.

This counts for both sides by the way.

Bedouins

Well, I think it's only fair that they should have their land back. Anyone in Israel who isn't a Beduin, get out.

Anyone like beer?

I like beer

I'm pretty sure beer was around before 1862 BC. The ancient egyptians drank beer, didn't they?

By the way everyone; this thread is over. I won. See here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12086455&postcount=1793). I can't believe only two people responded to my post anyway. I spent at least an hour looking up all that shit. Props please.

When compared to what percentage of the population?

If they all vote for the parties that have their interests how would they not be fully represented based on their population?

If they all vote for the parties that have their interests how would they not be fully represented based on their population?

Actually, they probably get underrepresented to a degree based on their voting habits. A party must get a certain amount of votes to get a Knesset seat. Since there is a party out there for just about every political ideology you can think of, the Arab vote gets split among a dozen parties. Only 4 to 5 of which will reach the number of votes needed. If the Arabs were to cut it down to just a couple of parties, they'd have a powerful voting bloc.

Yep Ginnoria although I'm pretty sure someone else did the same when I read through 90 odd fricking pages of this thread in one sitting at the weekend and it's still ongoing. But have a cookie (http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cookie2ne9ex4.jpg)

I'm so going to turn this thread into a soy milk thread!

Yep Ginnoria although I'm pretty sure someone else did the same when I read through 90 odd fricking pages of this thread in one sitting at the weekend and it's still ongoing. But have a cookie (http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cookie2ne9ex4.jpg)

Oh well. I may be slow, but at least I'm thorough.

Thanks. *munches* :cool:

EDIT: hey!

I'm sorry but I have to call bullshit on any use of % of elected representatives ethnicity/belief compared to a % of the population in terms of ethnicity or belief. It's founded on the unproven assumption that said % would only vote for those of the same ethnicity and belief and maybe I'm just an optimist but I like to believe that a fair bit of humanity has moved beyond that.

This counts for both sides by the way.

I'm sorry, that was a bad way of putting it. My main point was whether or not the majority of Bedouins agreed to give control of their country to newcomers.

For example, in America do we hand over large amounts of political power to Mexicans?

I'm so going to turn this thread into a soy milk thread!

I'll stick with ordinary milk thanks (http://www.i-j-t.com/comedy/Yoda_Got_Milk.jpg)

I'll stick with ordinary milk thanks (http://www.i-j-t.com/comedy/Yoda_Got_Milk.jpg)

The force is strong on that milk.

BTW, how sure are we that it's milk? After all Yoda is the right height:p

Well after seeing him fight in the prequels and the Clone Wars cartoons I'm not going to argue with him besides if I recall correctly he only really comes up to about knee height on most of the characters.

Well after seeing him fight in the prequels and the Clone Wars cartoons I'm not going to argue with him besides if I recall correctly he only really comes up to about knee height on most of the characters.

Fine, so he can suck off a midget LOL I have a sick mind, but even this is better than the actual topic this thread is supposed to be about

I think I just killed this thread. Can I get a medal?

Would if I could but seeing as I can't have more silly pics.

http://content.funnyhumor.com/pictures/milk.jpg
http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/gollummilk2.jpg
http://www.andy-hawley.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/maulmilk.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/hashlie/Pictures/baby.jpg

1) So we should push all the Americans into half of the country and give the rest to the Native Americans?

The Native Americans live in the US now tax free. Yes it was something terrible to do to them, but they are now livining happyly in a democracy now, so their way of life isn't threatend directly.


2) I have. Europeans historically didn't like them. The Arabs currently don't either.

Thats not really an excuse. I may not like the people next door to me. Does that give me the right to force them to leave?

Do they have major political control?


In a democracy you dont give out political control based on the ethnic nature of the people who live there, you give it on the basis of who is voted in.

Building civillian colonies in said territories, a two-tier system of justice, no Geneva convention applied to Arab inhabitants?

The jews were entitled to build anything they wanted on the land that was theirs


A massive 7% of what was then the Mandate of Palestine. A fact you seem too allergic to, to mention.

I know the size, and I also know that the mandade is much smaller than the historic Israel and that the mandate is more represntative of the population who was there at the time. The Jews were a majority in the region under discussion. I also think you'll find that your statistics include Jordan, which makes the percenage (when corrected) more like 30-40%.

Are we all in agreement then that Sovietstan made a hideoulsy flawed analysis

This is, in my view, an example of what Dezowitz was talking about when he said about the dramatic diffrnece between Israel's reality and its perception

Perception is not reality

I know the size, and I also know that the mandade is much smaller than the historic Israel and that the mandate is more represntative of the population who was there at the time. The Jews were a majority in the region under discussion. I also think you'll find that your statistics include Jordan, which makes the percenage (when corrected) more like 30-40%.

Actually less using the figures provided by wiki modern day israel covers 18.82% of what was the British Mandate Of Palestine.

And damn I wish I'd looked into it earlier but I didn't even think to check until you mentioned it Neo Sanderstead, so yes Israel occupies more of the Palestinian mandate then what was bought but Jordan occupies 75.90% of it. And the Palestinians have 5.28%

I have a serious question to pose here.

Eight Cincinnati Bengals are in a car. Who is driving?

Actually less using the figures provided by wiki modern day israel covers 18.81% of what was the British Mandate Of Palestine.

I'll re check my soruces, I cant recall exactly where that is from

Modern day Israel has expanded so because of continued atacks against it. It doesnt matter if the Arab states loose a war, but for Israel it does.

I'll re check my soruces, I cant recall exactly where that is from

Modern day Israel has expanded so because of continued atacks against it. It doesnt matter if the Arab states loose a war, but for Israel it does.

That is actually true. THe Palestine Mandate wasn't just Israel. Jordan was part of the mandate.

It also covered the West Bank and the Gaza strip too as far as I'm aware otherwise the figures are slightly different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine I then compared it to modern day maps as far as I can tell Jordan took no land from what was then Arabia.

I have a serious question to pose here.

Eight Cincinnati Bengals are in a car. Who is driving?

Henry. No I kid, the cops are, for sure.

I "clicked" on the wrong quote, by mistake. This is to Soviestan!

I wouldn't doubt if you were in one of those pogroms together with your lover David Duke ( AKA: KKK man).
Obviously, you're anti-Semitic, and racist ...and who knows what else!
At first I thought you were arguing just for the heck of it. But now, I have a feeling that you're expressing hatred, in a more "friendly fashion", without the "!@!@#$ you all" comments, but by questioning the facts of the Holocaust, and by claiming that Israel is an "evil" country trying to oppress the Palestinians...etc.
You can post further, but it will not change my opinion of you. In fact, it will probably make it worse.
I feel sorry for the "normal people" who have to put up with you personally...you really ought to change your way of viewing things, but that probably won't happen, because you're also in denial.

I generally don't reply to posters with less than 20 posts or so, but you tickle me. You make me out to be a bad guy and I'm not. I'm the nicest guy in the world champ. I don't know how can have an opinion of me after one thread but for the record I am niether racist nor anti-semitic.

I have a serious question to pose here.

Eight Cincinnati Bengals are in a car. Who is driving?

That isn't very nice. :p

Sovietstan,

My post is on page 121. Will you respond to it?

That isn't very nice. :p

I know, my Bears are turning into the Bungals.

First Rickey Manning Jr. and now Tank Johnson.

Are we all in agreement then that Sovietstan made a hideoulsy flawed analysis

This is, in my view, an example of what Dezowitz was talking about when he said about the dramatic diffrnece between Israel's reality and its perception

Perception is not reality

Yep yep. I'm in agreement.

Funny how you don't mention that Israel is threatened by the other Arab powers if it doesn't have one side of the Jordan and the Golan Heights, the posession of which gives you dominance over the countryside they loom over.
it doesn't matter if gives them more of an "edge" it isn't there land. The argument could be made that the Nazis would have been threaten by some in Europe and Russia if they didn't occupy places like France and Poland. It simply doesn't make it right.

And it's funny how the Palestinian Resistance hasn't really hit political targets yet, only religious and civilians ones, and they make it clear that they hate Jews.

No not really, its common for Palestinian forces to hit IDF checkpoints and patrols.

What? Are you going to say now that the Jews were racist against Hitler, just to keep your analogy intact? Let alone anyone with a tenuous knowledge of political science would classify Hamas as "Fascist", since they envision a Sunni *not Shi'a, Sufi, or otherwise* Islamic empire that stretches from Morocco to Pakistan?

er, not sure where you got that from but Hamas' stated goal is an Islamic State yes, but only in Palestine including what is currently occupied by the jews. Hamas isn't what most would classify as "facist" What you described sounds more like Al-Qeada

Fool

is that necessary? Do you feel better when you name call?

Yep yep. I'm in agreement.

As am I was just a little stunned by the realisation that Jordans sitting on what was most of the Palestinian mandate.

it doesn't matter if gives them more of an "edge" it isn't there land.

And it is not the Arabs land either. Something I've said numerous times but seems to get ignored in the shuffle.

er, not sure where you got that from but Hamas' stated goal is an Islamic State yes, but only in Palestine including what is currently occupied by the jews. Hamas isn't what most would classify as "facist" What you described sounds more like Al-Qeada

Hamas stated objective is the destruction of Israel. Seems to me they are truly failing in that regard. I guess some people do not understand that you are not going to gain anything by blowing up innocent men, women, and children.

I know, my Bears are turning into the Bungals.

Be nice if the Bengals had more consistancy. Should have a good team but no...

Luckily I'm a Pats fan but once again... lack of consistancy.


Our favorite teams always irritate us... :(

"Hi folks, look at the stats for YOUtube video of my showdown with Blitzer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v2f-WC4cjo


Duke interview about Zionism (David Duke and Wolf Blitzer CNN interview) on Youtube.
__________________

Over 49,000 views and growing like mad, and even in Youtube are different versions of the same show that are not counted here, and this of course does not count the original video still available on CNN which is probably close to a million views by now, not counting the actual broadcast. Youtube has millions of viewers and it could well rise to the top of the viewer list if it continues. Even if you have seen it on CNN or other versions, you should watch it in this version and send the link for family and friends and promote it on forums.

The program is the most discussed on You Tube as well and of course has been discussed on thousands of forums around the world.

Blitzer is not broadcast on CNN international, so the You Tube version also enables people across the globe to see it.

I don't know of any media program in history that has done more to expose the Jewish extremists and biased media than this one.

Everyone who reads this post, please, please, please help keep this going. Before doing anything else, mail the link to everyone on your email list. Then go to some forums and put your two cents in on the Blitzing of Blitzer. Don't forget that I get my website address out clearly at the end of the show, so every viewing will add to our traffic and almost all of it will come to Stormfront as well.

Everyone complains about the problem, you have a golden opportunity right now to help inform the world and bring millions of more people to our banners!

Sincerely, David Duke"


Honors for This Video:
#24 - Most Viewed (Today) - All
#2 - Most Viewed (Today) - People - All
#22 - Most Viewed (Today) - English
#1 - Most Viewed (Today) - People - English
#13 - Top Rated (Today) - All
#1 - Top Rated (Today) - People - All
#13 - Top Rated (Today) - English
#1 - Top Rated (Today) - People - English
#4 - Most Discussed (Today) - All
#1 - Most Discussed (Today) - People - All
#4 - Most Discussed (Today) - English
#1 - Most Discussed (Today) - People - English
#23 - Top Favorites (Today) - All
#3 - Top Favorites (Today) - People - All
#20 - Top Favorites (Today) - English
#2 - Top Favorites (Today) - People - English

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v2f-WC4cjo

"Hi folks, look at the stats for YOUtube video of my showdown with Blitzer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v2f-WC4cjo


Duke interview about Zionism (David Duke and Wolf Blitzer CNN interview) on Youtube.
__________________

Over 49,000 views and growing like mad, and even in Youtube are different versions of the same show that are not counted here, and this of course does not count the original video still available on CNN which is probably close to a million views by now, not counting the actual broadcast. Youtube has millions of viewers and it could well rise to the top of the viewer list if it continues. Even if you have seen it on CNN or other versions, you should watch it in this version and send the link for family and friends and promote it on forums.

The program is the most discussed on You Tube as well and of course has been discussed on thousands of forums around the world.

Blitzer is not broadcast on CNN international, so the You Tube version also enables people across the globe to see it.

I don't know of any media program in history that has done more to expose the Jewish extremists and biased media than this one.

Everyone who reads this post, please, please, please help keep this going. Before doing anything else, mail the link to everyone on your email list. Then go to some forums and put your two cents in on the Blitzing of Blitzer. Don't forget that I get my website address out clearly at the end of the show, so every viewing will add to our traffic and almost all of it will come to Stormfront as well.

Everyone complains about the problem, you have a golden opportunity right now to help inform the world and bring millions of more people to our banners!

Sincerely, David Duke"


Honors for This Video:
#24 - Most Viewed (Today) - All
#2 - Most Viewed (Today) - People - All
#22 - Most Viewed (Today) - English
#1 - Most Viewed (Today) - People - English
#13 - Top Rated (Today) - All
#1 - Top Rated (Today) - People - All
#13 - Top Rated (Today) - English
#1 - Top Rated (Today) - People - English
#4 - Most Discussed (Today) - All
#1 - Most Discussed (Today) - People - All
#4 - Most Discussed (Today) - English
#1 - Most Discussed (Today) - People - English
#23 - Top Favorites (Today) - All
#3 - Top Favorites (Today) - People - All
#20 - Top Favorites (Today) - English
#2 - Top Favorites (Today) - People - English

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v2f-WC4cjo

Instead of reading through the 124 pages, I'll just assume nobody was stupid enough to say anything other than the Nazis.

Instead of reading through the 124 pages, I'll just assume nobody was stupid enough to say anything other than the Nazis.
It's better that way. :(

Instead of reading through the 124 pages, I'll just assume nobody was stupid enough to say anything other than the Nazis.

You obviously know NOTHING of the real world if you assume that Israel is a little peaceful nation and that the National Socialist goverment of Germany was as bad as the media makes it out to be.

You obviously know NOTHING of the real world if you assume that Israel is a little peaceful nation and that the National Socialist goverment of Germany was as bad as the media makes it out to be.

Yeah, I know nothing. Please impart your wisdom to me, oh Great Knower of Truth and Denier of Holocaust. I am lost without your insight.

Yeah, I know nothing. Please impart your wisdom to me, oh Great Knower of Truth and Denier of Holocaust. I am lost without your insight.

Yeah, I know nothing. Please impart your wisdom to me, oh Great Knower of Truth and Denier of Holocaust. I am lost without your insight.

Im not a holocaust denier.

Also, this thread isnt about the holocaust, its about israeli tactics and policies compaired to national socialist germany's.

Your ignorance is astounding. You must be jewish or brainwashed, because ignoring the facts doesnt make them any less factual.

Im not a holocaust denier.

Also, this thread isnt about the holocaust, its about israeli tactics and policies compaired to national socialist germany's.

Your ignorance is astounding. You must be jewish or brainwashed, because ignoring the facts doesnt make them any less factual.

None of my assumptions are my fault. Your tone suggests that you deny the extent of the holocaust (which, although it is not semantically correct, is known as holocaust denial). If you think the crimes of Israel are worse than those of Germany under rule of the Nazi party (which is the most obvious conclusion to infer from your original reply to my first message) then you are delusional and I see no point in even corresponding with you.

None of my assumptions are my fault. Your tone suggests that you deny the extent of the holocaust (which, although it is not semantically correct, is known as holocaust denial). If you think the crimes of Israel are worse than those of Germany under rule of the Nazi party (which is the most obvious conclusion to infer from your original reply to my first message) then you are delusional and I see no point in even corresponding with you.

By the way, do you or anybody else know why I try and quote you in a reply (by using the quote button obv.), the post never shows up? It redirects like normal, but I did it a few times and nothing, so I had to hit the reply button. Don't think this happened for any other threads...

Im not a holocaust denier.

Also, this thread isnt about the holocaust, its about israeli tactics and policies compaired to national socialist germany's.

Your ignorance is astounding. You must be jewish or brainwashed, because ignoring the facts doesnt make them any less factual.

Nah, that didn't sound like it was racist... right?

Nah, that didn't sound like it was racist... right?
No, how is that racist? Is asking somone if they are jewish being racist?
I asked if he was jewish, and if he isnt, he is brainwashed. Is asking somone if they are brainwashed racist?

Calling somone a racist because of somthing liek this is just a smear tactic to avoid the true topic at hand.

No, how is that racist? Is asking somone if they are jewish being racist?
I asked if he was jewish, and if he isnt, he is brainwashed. Is asking somone if they are brainwashed racist?

Calling someone a racist because of somthing liek this is just a smear tactic to avoid the true topic at hand.

Actually I was referring just to the "you must be jewish" part, cause that's a generalization that suggest that if you act so and so, than you're jewish, which is in it's core a racist assumption. Now, I don't say that you might have a mistake in the way you put your words, but the form you used make it seems that jewish people are bound to certain behavior.

Nova, your comment was racist because you applied your own ideas of me as a person based purely on my race. That is the definition of racism. Seriously, how old are you? I really want to know.

--edit--
And for the record, I am not Jewish nor have I been brainwashed... Unless of course that Jewish festival I went to as a child fed me poisoned food with a Jew-Drug designed to implant lies in my brain and at the same time make me oblivious to the drug's effects... Damn those sneaky Jews.

Actually I was referring just to the "you must be jewish" part, cause that's a generalization that suggest that if you act so and so, than you're jewish, which is in it's core a racist assumption. Now, I don't say that you might have a mistake in the way you put your words, but the form you used make it seems that jewish people are bound to certain behavior.
Actually, only a jew or somone who was brainwashed would say something like that. It's being ignorant by choice, to me is brainwashing.

If pointing out that simple fact is racist, than so be it.

Actually, only a jew or somone who was brainwashed would say something like that. It's being ignorant by choice, to me is brainwashing.

If pointing out that simple fact is racist, than so be it.

So, you know all the jewish in the world to make the "simple fact" as you call it?

Nova, your comment was racist because you applied your own ideas of me as a person based purely on my race. That is the definition of racism. Seriously, how old are you? I really want to know.

--edit--
And for the record, I am not Jewish nor have I been brainwashed... Unless of course that Jewish festival I went to as a child fed me poisoned food with a Jew-Drug designed to implant lies in my brain and at the same time make me oblivious to the drug's effects... Damn those sneaky Jews.
Well, the first step in being brainwashedis to not know you're brainwashed. You are force fed pro-zionist and multiculturalist ideals all day through popular advertising, the mass media and many other social outlets.

To deny that fact IS saying you're brainwashed, unless you are one of teh few who can look beyond the lies of the western worlds social fabric.

So, you know all the jewish in the world to make the "simple fact" as you call it?
Well, if they are not jewish, than they are brainwashed. Sure there are orthodox and some secular jews who oppose zionism and the such. I don't refer to them.

Well, the first step in being brainwashedis to not know you're brainwashed. You are force fed pro-zionist and multiculturalist ideals all day through popular advertising, the mass media and many other social outlets.

To deny that fact IS saying you're brainwashed, unless you are one of teh few who can look beyond the lies of the western worlds social fabric.

Oh My GOD, that's the most dogmatic, condescending nonsense I have ever heard... that kind of thing isn't debating it's like saying "I'm right, I know I am right, and you're wrong cause you don't know any better".
You don't know how to handle a valid debate if you stick with that way of thinking.

Oh My GOD, that's the most dogmatic, condescending nonsense I have ever heard... that kind of thing isn't debating it's like saying "I'm right, I know I am right, and you're wrong cause you don't know any better".
You don't know how to handle a valid debate if you stick with that way of thinking.
So, you deny my claims? Just turn on your TV if you own one. Tell me I'm wrong afterwords.

---Edit---

I just noticed you're from Israel. I will expect everything you say will be biased when in regards to zionism and international media.

Well, if they are not jewish, than they are brainwashed. Sure there are orthodox and some secular jews who oppose zionism and the such. I don't refer to them.

Nah. still assuming in it's core that jewish people = brainwashed... again, doesn't change the fact that you generalize without having enough information to establish that fact.... oh wait, here's a killer for you, I'm an Israeli-jew and well, what do you know, I don't believe in zionism, but on the other hand, I believe that my country is here now, and since it is my home, I believe in protecting it and the people I love in it.
Sure, I do agree that israel should return to the 67 borders, but beyond that, not really...

I again call for Nova to disclose their age.

I again call for Nova to disclose their age.
Look to the left, below your join date. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/b/b5/20060306010514!DoNotFeedTroll.png

Look to the left, below your join date. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/b/b5/20060306010514!DoNotFeedTroll.png

Nova is a troll? So he/she is doing this just to get a rise out of others? I really hope so.

Look to the left, below your join date. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/b/b5/20060306010514!DoNotFeedTroll.png

Seconded. Don't feed the Neo-Nazis, people. Otherwise they might think they belong here, and to be honest I just finished vacuuming General. I don't want bile and knuckle-prints all over the place.

Just Because Somone Is Opposed To Zionism Does Not Make Them A Neo-nazi.

That Is Slander.

I again call for Nova to disclose their age.

None of your business.

Just Because Somone Is Opposed To Zionism Does Not Make Them A Neo-nazi.

That Is Slander.
But If Someone Also Denies The Holocaust In The Face Of All Established Facts And Also Repeatedly Spouts About T3h J00ish Media Controlz Then They Most Likely Are A Neo-nazi. I Can Capitalise The First Letter Of Each Word Too.

Nova is a troll? So he/she is doing this just to get a rise out of others? I really hope so.

I am not trying to get a kick out of anyone. Infact i would liek everyone to stop with the nazi/racist/hate remarks to me. That are not true. Just because I oppose zionism, doesnt make me a neo-nazi

Jimmy friggin' Carter just wrote a book about this very issue, is he a neo-nazi? I assume all the pro-isralis here will say yes.

Just Because Somone Is Opposed To Zionism Does Not Make Them A Neo-nazi.

That Is Slander.

You're right, you have every right to be against zionism, cause you believe it to be wrong....
but the problem is that you're against an idea, you should be against the individuals who implemented the idea, those who took it to different directions than intended.
cause attacking an idea will mean attacking those who believe different forms of it...
For example, many go and blame the religions in saying this and that, when you actually look at those cases, you see that the world is more complicated than black and white, and so is zionism, it's not a black and white issue, you need to see what in between, and see how different people grasp the idea.

My way of seeing things might be wrong by some people here, but I see it valid, and it works for me.

But If Someone Also Denies The Holocaust In The Face Of All Established Facts And Also Repeatedly Spouts About T3h J00ish Media Controlz Then They Most Likely Are A Neo-nazi. I Can Capitalise The First Letter Of Each Word Too.
I never denied the holocaust, that is just a smear tactic you are all using against me to make me look like an anti-semite

Like most things people seem to insist on adding unneeded complexity to, Nazis vs Israel is actually a simple comparison:

Nazis: Asses handed to them by the Soviets with some help from the allies = losers.

Israel: survives, and prospers, surrounded by hostile states, and manages to make territorial gains when said states attack = winners.

Conclusion: the Nazis were worse.

I never denied the holocaust, that is just a smear tactic you are all using against me to make me look like an anti-semite
Denying the extent and organisation of the holocaust ~ denying the holocaust. If it wasn't for the sheer ruthlessness through which it was carried out it probably wouldn't be called the Holocaust in the first place.

Anyway, I'm ignoring my own advice here. *leaves*

You're right, you have every right to be against zionism, cause you believe it to be wrong....
but the problem is that you're against an idea, you should be against the individuals who implemented the idea, those who took it to different directions than intended.
cause attacking an idea will mean attacking those who believe different forms of it...
For example, many go and blame the religions in saying this and that, when you actually look at those cases, you see that the world is more complicated than black and white, and so is zionism, it's not a black and white issue, you need to see what in between, and see how different people grasp the idea.

My way of seeing things might be wrong by some people here, but I see it valid, and it works for me.The fundimentals of Zionism are wrong in my opinion and evil when put into practice, no matter what twist you put on it.

No one said it was a black and white matter, but it's simple enough for me to say all zionism is bad in my personal opinion, because it truely is.

Like most things people seem to insist on adding unneeded complexity to, Nazis vs Israel is actually a simple comparison:

Nazis: Asses handed to them by the Soviets with some help from the allies = losers.

Israel: survives, and prospers, surrounded by hostile states, and manages to make territorial gains when said states attack = winners.

Conclusion: the Nazis were worse.
Israel prospers at the expense of innocent Arab life. The treatment of those people by Israli forces is barbaric in compairison to National Socialist Germany.

The fundimentals of Zionism are wrong in my opinion and evil when put into practice, no matter what twist you put on it.

No one said it was a black and white matter, but it's simple enough for me to say all zionism is bad in my personal opinion, because it truely is.

Again, having your own personal opinion is good and well, but do you know what zionism means?

Israel prospers at the expense of innocent Arab life. The treatment of those people by Israli forces is barbaric in compairison to National Socialist Germany.

Mmmm, yes. The Israeli deathcamps and execution squads must be stopped now!...

Israel prospers at the expense of innocent Arab life. The treatment of those people by Israli forces is barbaric in compairison to National Socialist Germany.

Perhaps if the "Arabs" left Israel alone, then they would not be treated so badly.

I don't know, it's look like people here know every palestinian and israeli personally... which is quite amazing when most haven't been to the region...
One side paints horns on all israelis cause they want to be alive, and same goes to other side...
You people should really go off with the black and white thing... it's getting old.

I don't know, it's look like people here know every palestinian and israeli personally... which is quite amazing when most haven't been to the region...
One side paints horns on all israelis cause they want to be alive, and same goes to other side...
You people should really go off with the black and white thing... it's getting old.

Israel isn't a perfect state by any means; they've done their share of nasty things. But to compare their actions to what Nazi Germany did during the Second World War is just insanity.

Denying the extent and organisation of the holocaust ~ denying the holocaust. If it wasn't for the sheer ruthlessness through which it was carried out it probably wouldn't be called the Holocaust in the first place.

Anyway, I'm ignoring my own advice here. *leaves*There is no proof of ANY workable gas chambers at auschwitz, where they claimed to kill 2,000+ people a day. They also said that they only killed at night, a maximum of 12 hours. That means 2, 000 bodies in 12 hours.

Now, have you seen the creamatory? Its 2 ovens, each fits one body at a time. Do you know how much coal it takes to fully burn a body? Do you know how LONG it takes?

Also, you say "sheer ruthlessness", which isnt teh case at all. Explain the swimming pools, the theaters, the bands, the acting classes etc that they allowed the jews and other inmates partake in. There is plenty of footage of inmates having plenty of fun there, but NONE supporting a holocaust.

Sure, I dont deny that many jews and others deemed enemies of the state dies while in captivity. Its just the method of their death, and the lies taht followed it that makes me upset.

History books are written by liars nothing that you read is true. If they dont want you to know about something, they keep teh facts from you.

Perhaps if the "Arabs" left Israel alone, then they would not be treated so badly.
Perhaps if Israel ceased to occupy their land, the Arabs would leave them alone too.

There is no proof of ANY workable gas chambers at auschwitz, where they claimed to kill 2,000+ people a day. They also said that they only killed at night, a maximum of 12 hours. That means 2, 000 bodies in 12 hours.

Now, have you seen the creamatory? Its 2 ovens, each fits one body at a time. Do you know how much coal it takes to fully burn a body? Do you know how LONG it takes?

Also, you say "sheer ruthlessness", which isnt teh case at all. Explain the swimming pools, the theaters, the bands, the acting classes etc that they allowed the jews and other inmates partake in. There is plenty of footage of inmates having plenty of fun there, but NONE supporting a holocaust.

Sure, I dont deny that many jews and others deemed enemies of the state dies while in captivity. Its just the method of their death, and the lies taht followed it that makes me upset.

History books are written by liars nothing that you read is true. If they dont want you to know about something, they keep teh facts from you.


Riiiiiight, my grandparents had the time of their life there, no wonder they were on the run all the time...

Israel prospers at the expense of innocent Arab life. The treatment of those people by Israli forces is barbaric in compairison to National Socialist Germany.

So it would actually be better if Israel sent Arabs off to die in their million in camps?

Israel isn't a perfect state by any means; they've done their share of nasty things. But to compare their actions to what Nazi Germany did during the Second World War is just insanity.
Sorry, 12 years compaired to 50.....hmmmm
Israel is the bad guy imo.

Sorry, 12 years compaired to 50.....hmmmm
Israel is the bad guy imo.
So Israel is more evil because it's existed for a longer period of time... :confused:

Perhaps if Israel ceased to occupy their land, the Arabs would leave them alone too.

That land has changed hands many time in history. Israel is nothing more than the current occupant, and as long as they are willing to defend themselves and their nation then they are the rightful occupants.. No one group can lay any historical claim to that land.

Oh, and prior to Israel, It was Palestinian land, not Arab.

Sorry, 12 years compaired to 50.....hmmmm
Israel is the bad guy imo.

You know you're right, we forgot to tell the world that we killed 11 million people in that time.... sorry we didn't mention that (yes, I am mocking you, just thought about adding that, cause apparently obvious things escape you)

So it would actually be better if Israel sent Arabs off to die in their million in camps?

Not at all, that's genocide.

I would prefer Israel to stop terrorizing palastinians, because thats is exactly what they do. The media will say something like "Palastinian terrorists kidnape an israeli soldier today....", but when ISRAEL captures a soldier, they say "a islamic extremist terrorist has been detained/captured/arrested today...".

Wouldnt you dislike somone who stole your land from you, and have been terrorizing your people?

These sorts of verbal masking is what makes people like the majority of the posters on this thread assume the things they do.

So Israel is more evil because it's existed for a longer period of time... :confused:

No, because they are more brutal and have been commiting crimes against humanity for way longer than the National Socialist are credited to.

So Nova. I can see the point that you are trying to make, which is that Israel isnt being nice. I personally do not agree with everything the Israelies do. I also do not agree with everything the Palastinians do. In fact, I think that both sides are handling the situation rather poorley, (easy for an outsider to say)

But to suggest that the Israelies are in any way compirable to Nazi Germany is Ludicrous. In too many ways to number, but I will try one or two.

Germany sought not just to rid Germany of Jews, but to rid the world of them. That is DISGUSTING. The Israelies, no matter how unjustly you may find it, simply want the Palastinians out (debatable, but no more than this) of a relatively small section of land they feel they have the rights to. To back thier lack of imperialist tendancies up, they traded the Tsiania (spelling) to the Egyptians basically for recognition and peace after a war in which they were not the aggressors.

Also the Israeli's do not torture women and children, kill them sometimes in what is an arguably negligent manner perhaps; but not intentionally and after they are captive. The Israelis are not working to rid the world of Palastinians they are working to make Israel a Jewish haven were Jews have absolute control.

I am not apologizing for modern Israeli actions, but you have one screwy sense of proportion to compare them with the Germans.

Sorry, 12 years compaired to 50.....hmmmm
Israel is the bad guy imo.

The deathtoll caused by the Israeli state is somewhere around the 100,000 mark, as explained earlier in the thread. Around eleven million Jewish, Gypsy, Mentally Retarded and Russian men, women and children were killed by the Nazi state in less than six years.

Yet you claim that Israel is the worst state? I would also ask, if so few people died in the Holocaust, where are they now? Where are the entire towns, villages and hovels that were wiped off of the map and their inhabitants liquidated? Did some eleven million people disappear by clicking their heels together during the conflict?

That land has changed hands many time in history. Israel is nothing more than the current occupant, and as long as they are willing to defend themselves and their nation then they are the rightful occupants.. No one group can lay any historical claim to that land.

Oh, and prior to Israel, It was Palestinian land, not Arab.Palestinians are Arabs, and they still occupy the land :rolleyes:

The deathtoll caused by the Israeli state is somewhere around the 100,000 mark, as explained earlier in the thread. Around eleven million Jewish, Gypsy, Mentally Retarded and Russian men, women and children were killed by the Nazi state in less than six years.

Yet you claim that Israel is the worst state? I would also ask, if so few people died in the Holocaust, where are they now? Where are the entire towns, villages and hovels that were wiped off of the map and their inhabitants liquidated? Did some eleven million people disappear by clicking their heels together during the conflict?
Those numbers were invented BEFORE the war.

Not at all, that's genocide.

I would prefer Israel to stop terrorizing palastinians, because thats is exactly what they do. The media will say something like "Palastinian terrorists kidnape an israeli soldier today....", but when ISRAEL captures a soldier, they say "a islamic extremist terrorist has been detained/captured/arrested today...".

Wouldnt you dislike somone who stole your land from you, and have been terrorizing your people?

These sorts of verbal masking is what makes people like the majority of the posters on this thread assume the things they do.

And you know what's going right? So, we should ignore bus bombings that occured?
You take into assumption that people who defend israel here are in full agreement with israel's actions, which is wrong, of course we disagree with many of the actions and policies.
But you don't know exactly what is going on, and what is the intent of the israeli soldiers who serve in those areas, they don't want to be there, they want to be home and get laid.... trust me, I know that for a fact.

BTW, it'll be easier for you to draw an israeli soldier with a pitchfork, horns and a tail than going with the rhetorics, it'll show your heart felt sentiments much better.

Not at all, that's genocide.

I would prefer Israel to stop terrorizing palastinians, because thats is exactly what they do. The media will say something like "Palastinian terrorists kidnape an israeli soldier today....", but when ISRAEL captures a soldier, they say "a islamic extremist terrorist has been detained/captured/arrested today...".

Wouldnt you dislike somone who stole your land from you, and have been terrorizing your people?

These sorts of verbal masking is what makes people like the majority of the posters on this thread assume the things they do.

Terrorists kidnap, soldiers capture. A nitpicky point I know, but if the Palestinians want their land back, then they should raise an Army and retake it from the Israeli army. Using criminals to incite terror is NOT they way to do it.

And you know what's going right? So, we should ignore bus bombings that occured?
You take into assumption that people who defend israel here are in full agreement with israel's actions, which is wrong, of course we disagree with many of the actions and policies.
But you don't know exactly what is going on, and what is the intent of the israeli soldiers who serve in those areas, they don't want to be there, they want to be home and get laid.... trust me, I know that for a fact.

BTW, it'll be easier for you to draw an israeli soldier with a pitchfork, horns and a tail than going with the rhetorics, it'll show your heart felt sentiments much better.

You have to ask yourself, why do these people blow themselves up? Its because if israeli policies and actions.

You have to ask yourself, why do these people blow themselves up? Its because if israeli policies and actions.
You have to ask yourself, why do these Israelis kill Palestinians? It's because of Palestinian policies and actions.

*coughDOUBLESTANDARDScough*

Those numbers were invented BEFORE the war.

...a-wha?

It was claimed eleven million people died...before they actually died and before the conflict began, and even before the Wansee Conference?

...

EDIT: And you've not answered my question. Where did the eleven million people go, if not dying in the holocaust?

You have to ask yourself, why do these people blow themselves up? Its because if israeli policies and actions.

Well, if they attacking israeli soldiers, I see why they do that, but attacking civilians? no way you can blame that on the israelis.... the Palestinians can attack soldiers alone.... they choose to attack civilians, not really forced on them

Terrorists kidnap, soldiers capture. A nitpicky point I know, but if the Palestinians want their land back, then they should raise an Army and retake it from the Israeli army. Using criminals to incite terror is NOT they way to do it.But that is not what they are doing. They are only criminals because Israel and the USA said they were. They are what is left of an armned national resistance of their land. An organized army isnt working
for them, so they have to resort to resistance and freedom cells. Leaderless resistance is by far more effective when you have small numbers of fighters, like they do.

Terrorists kidnap, soldiers capture. A nitpicky point I know, but if the Palestinians want their land back, then they should raise an Army and retake it from the Israeli army. Using criminals to incite terror is NOT they way to do it.

I am strongly opposed to Nova, but this is as rediculous as he/she is, like the United States would EVER allow Palestinians to raise an army, even if they had the money, supplies, and training, provided to Israel.


C'mon if you want to argue with a loony, you have to present some of the numerous logical arguments.

Well, if they attacking israeli soldiers, I see why they do that, but attacking civilians? no way you can blame that on the israelis.... the Palestinians can attack soldiers alone.... they choose to attack civilians, not really forced on them

I can provide countless accounts of Israeli kidnappings of Palastinian soldiers. You might not see the same news the rest fo the world sees, we get it from pro-zionist perspective, yet less propagated due to our low jewish population.

We see he Arab side of it too, due to our high muslim/arab population in my country, but always on the zionists side.

I am not trying to get a kick out of anyone. Infact i would liek everyone to stop with the nazi/racist/hate remarks to me. That are not true. Just because I oppose zionism, doesnt make me a neo-nazi

Jimmy friggin' Carter just wrote a book about this very issue, is he a neo-nazi? I assume all the pro-isralis here will say yes.

You quote Jew Watch and David Duke. Thats what makes you some form of Nazi. Or Gobshite. Take your pick.

But that is not what they are doing. They are only criminals because Israel and the USA said they were. They are what is left of an armned national resistance of their land. An organized army isnt working
for them, so they have to resort to resistance and freedom cells. Leaderless resistance is by far more effective when you have small numbers of fighters, like they do.

Perhaps, but as Unknown Apathy pointed out, They are attacking civilians, not the Israeli army. Why? They know they can't defeat the Army, so they attack the helpless. Plain cowardice, nothing more, nothing less.

I can provide countless accounts of Israeli kidnappings of Palastinian soldiers. You might not see the same news the rest fo the world sees, we get it from pro-zionist perspective, yet less propagated due to our low jewish population.

We see he Arab side of it too, due to our high muslim/arab population in my country, but always on the zionists side.

I know that the palestinians have humanitarian issues, but if they want to have a fight, have that with the soldiers, what comes out of deliberately going into a shopping mall and exploding?
Oh, to undermine the moral of the enemy, we israelis are funny that way, we actually set aside our difference and kick ass.

So Nova. I can see the point that you are trying to make, which is that Israel isnt being nice. I personally do not agree with everything the Israelies do. I also do not agree with everything the Palastinians do. In fact, I think that both sides are handling the situation rather poorley, (easy for an outsider to say)

But to suggest that the Israelies are in any way compirable to Nazi Germany is Ludicrous. In too many ways to number, but I will try one or two.

Germany sought not just to rid Germany of Jews, but to rid the world of them. That is DISGUSTING. The Israelies, no matter how unjustly you may find it, simply want the Palastinians out (debatable, but no more than this) of a relatively small section of land they feel they have the rights to. To back thier lack of imperialist tendancies up, they traded the Tsiania (spelling) to the Egyptians basically for recognition and peace after a war in which they were not the aggressors.

Also the Israeli's do not torture women and children, kill them sometimes in what is an arguably negligent manner perhaps; but not intentionally and after they are captive. The Israelis are not working to rid the world of Palastinians they are working to make Israel a Jewish haven were Jews have absolute control.

I am not apologizing for modern Israeli actions, but you have one screwy sense of proportion to compare them with the Germans.

Nova, please respond, you argue on why what the Israelis are doing is wrong, but I am completely unsatisfied by any arguments at scale, time is a poor indicator, massively outweighed by victim count and demographics.

--edit--
And you argue the 11 million is wrong, what number (and source) do you find more accurate?

...a-wha?

It was claimed eleven million people died...before they actually died and before the conflict began, and even before the Wansee Conference?

...

EDIT: And you've not answered my question. Where did the eleven million people go, if not dying in the holocaust?
I'll provide you with evidence that they tried to claim there was a holocaust after ww1, but no one bought it. Also, please read this:

This article will be dedicated to figuring out the modern day population of the Jewish people and how many really died in the "Holocaust".

Most of the early data I have taken from the Jewish holy book - the Torah, as possible evidence.


2000 BC (est) = 3,154,000 (Joshua and the Levites)

971 BC (est) = 5,000,000 (King David's Census, based on 1,300,000 males over 20)

58 BC (est) = 4,200,000 (Adolf Harnack 1902 Estimate - considered excessive)

50 AD (est) = 600,000 (Publius Cornelius Tacitus)

100 AD (est) = 1,100,000 (Flavius Josephus)

1170 AD (est) = 1,049,565 (Benjamin of Tudela - considered low)

Between 1000 - 1500 (Recorded 380,000 Killed In Expulsion from Europe)

1500 AD (est) = 1,000,000

1700 AD (est) = 1,000,000 (Jacques Basnage)

1828 AD (est) = 4,947,000 (French-Jewish Almanac)

1829 AD (est) = 4,000,000 (Balbi)

1830 AD (est) = 3,500,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1833 AD (est) = 6,598,000 (Hörschelman)

1846 AD (est) = 3,143,000 (Jost)

1854 AD (est) = 4,000,000 (Berghaus)

1857 AD (est) = 3,900,000 (Boudin)

1868 AD (est) = 4,550,000 (Legoyt)

1870 AD (est) = 6,798,029 (Alexander)

1879 AD (est) = 6,276,957 (I. Loeb)

1881 AD (est) = 6,193,662 (Andree)

1881 AD (est) = 6,200,000 (Encyclopædia Britannica, 1881)

1883 AD (est) = 6,136,662 (Heckler)

1887 AD (est) = 6,582,500 (A. Nossig)

1896 AD (est) = 9,066,534 (J. Jacobs)

1900 AD = 11,273,076 (Calculated by Census Data)

1901 AD (est) = 11,206,849 (Jewish Encyclopedia)

1902 AD (est) = 10,319,402 (I. Harris)

1904 AD (est) = 10,456,000 (A. Ruppin)

1905 AD (est) = 10,932,777 (American Jewish Yearbook, 1904-1905)

1920 AD (est) = 14,500,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1933 AD (est) = 17,000,000 (Anderson, Norman - The World's Religions)

1934 AD (est) = 15,700,000 (Ferm, Vergilius - An Encyclopedia of Religion)

1942 AD (est) = 18,000,000 (Oxtoby, Willard G - The Meaning of Other Faiths)

1942 AD (est) = 16,030,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1942 AD (est) = 18,000,000 (Palmer, Spencer J. & Roger R. Keller.- Religions of the World)

1942 - 1945 ("Holocaust" / Shoah / die Endlösung -6,200,000)

1945 AD (est) = 11,000,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1950 AD (est) = 11,297,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1960 AD (est) = 12,079,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1970 AD (est) = 12,585,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1980 AD (est) = 12,819,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1990 AD (est) = 12,868,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

2000 AD (est) = 13,212,500 (American Jewish Yearbook)

2001 AD (est) = 13,252,100 (American Jewish Yearbook)

2002 AD = 13,296,100 (World Census)

2005 AD (est) = 14,596,017 (American Jewish Yearbook)

2010 AD (est) = 15,979,534 (Projected population based on 2005 to 2005
trend)





It should be easy to note that the last figure given by the American Jewish Yearbook is grossly over exaggerated.

As you can also see, if it wasn't for the data between 1900 and 1938, then you would have a horizontal line showing a constant growth period over the last 180 years. What is interesting is that within the 100 years between 1838 and 1938 it is claimed that the Jewish population only grew four fold from 3.5 million to 15 million. This is statistically not possible as it would mean they had less than 3 children per Jewish couple for five generations (1 generation being 20 years approximately), in a time when large families were the norm.

This does not add allow for death before reproductive age like accidents and wars either.

Most of the statistical sources also state that the Jewish people are leaving their faith due to "mixed marriages" with Christians. Another possible reason is that due to oppression against the Jewish people, the Jewish people are no longer calling themselves Jewish. This was not possible in the past as they were restricted from converting by their faith, but in the last 30 years of liberalism within the Jewish community.

[Ed: It is interesting to note that the media, entertainment industry, Jewish pressure groups and the "history" books lead us to believe that during 1942 to 1945, that 6 Million Jews allegedly perished but as we can see from the above information supplied by Jewish scholars themselves is quite on the contrary.]

------------------

What do you have to say about that?

Im not a holocaust denier.

Also, this thread isnt about the holocaust, its about israeli tactics and policies compaired to national socialist germany's.

Your ignorance is astounding. You must be jewish or brainwashed, because ignoring the facts doesnt make them any less factual.

so when you compare nazies and israel we should not mention the systematic killing of millions of people?

Nova, your comment was racist because you applied your own ideas of me as a person based purely on my race. That is the definition of racism. Seriously, how old are you? I really want to know.

--edit--
And for the record, I am not Jewish nor have I been brainwashed... Unless of course that Jewish festival I went to as a child fed me poisoned food with a Jew-Drug designed to implant lies in my brain and at the same time make me oblivious to the drug's effects... Damn those sneaky Jews.

OH MY GOD. YOU DIDN'T DRINK ANY JEWCE DID YOU???

so when you compare nazies and israel we should not mention the systematic killing of millions of people?

There is no proof of a planned systematic killing of millions by teh National Soclaists of Germany. That is one of the the MYTHS about the holocaust.

so when you compare nazies and israel we should not mention the systematic killing of millions of people?

No no, you get it wrong, according to the historian he posted, it's impossible that jews multiplied in 100 years.... so that's why 6 million jews couldn't have died in the holocaust...
So, basically, all that theory is about making the assumption and relying on numbers... way to go :rolleyes:

snip
Um, what in there actually goes against the Holocaust?
And your source refutes itself:
What is interesting is that within the 100 years between 1838 and 1938 it is claimed that the Jewish population only grew four fold from 3.5 million to 15 million. This is statistically not possible as it would mean they had less than 3 children per Jewish couple for five generations (1 generation being 20 years approximately), in a time when large families were the norm.

This does not add allow for death before reproductive age like accidents and wars either.
There. If you factor in accidents and wars, what with all the persecution of the Jews...

[Ed: It is interesting to note that the media, entertainment industry, Jewish pressure groups and the "history" books lead us to believe that during 1942 to 1945, that 6 Million Jews allegedly perished but as we can see from the above information supplied by Jewish scholars themselves is quite on the contrary.]

------------------

What do you have to say about that?

Maybe you should see the notes the Germans kept at Auschwitz and Dachau. I've been to both places, and it appears that the Germans kept meticulous notes about how many they killed every day.

Usually by the trainload - at one point at Auschwitz, 4000 to 5000 per day.

Primary source. Irrefutable.

There is no proof of a planned systematic killing of millions by teh National Soclaists of Germany. That is one of the the MYTHS about the holocaust.

So, you want me to go to my grandparents and tell them that all they've been through was a dream?

Um, what in there actually goes against the Holocaust?
And your source refutes itself:

There. If you factor in accidents and wars, what with all the persecution of the Jews...

1838 and 1938

BEFORE ww2

I'll provide you with evidence that they tried to claim there was a holocaust after ww1, but no one bought it. Also, please read this:

This article will be dedicated to figuring out the modern day population of the Jewish people and how many really died in the "Holocaust".

Most of the early data I have taken from the Jewish holy book - the Torah, as possible evidence.


2000 BC (est) = 3,154,000 (Joshua and the Levites)

971 BC (est) = 5,000,000 (King David's Census, based on 1,300,000 males over 20)

58 BC (est) = 4,200,000 (Adolf Harnack 1902 Estimate - considered excessive)

50 AD (est) = 600,000 (Publius Cornelius Tacitus)

100 AD (est) = 1,100,000 (Flavius Josephus)

1170 AD (est) = 1,049,565 (Benjamin of Tudela - considered low)

Between 1000 - 1500 (Recorded 380,000 Killed In Expulsion from Europe)

1500 AD (est) = 1,000,000

1700 AD (est) = 1,000,000 (Jacques Basnage)

1828 AD (est) = 4,947,000 (French-Jewish Almanac)

1829 AD (est) = 4,000,000 (Balbi)

1830 AD (est) = 3,500,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1833 AD (est) = 6,598,000 (Hörschelman)

1846 AD (est) = 3,143,000 (Jost)

1854 AD (est) = 4,000,000 (Berghaus)

1857 AD (est) = 3,900,000 (Boudin)

1868 AD (est) = 4,550,000 (Legoyt)

1870 AD (est) = 6,798,029 (Alexander)

1879 AD (est) = 6,276,957 (I. Loeb)

1881 AD (est) = 6,193,662 (Andree)

1881 AD (est) = 6,200,000 (Encyclopædia Britannica, 1881)

1883 AD (est) = 6,136,662 (Heckler)

1887 AD (est) = 6,582,500 (A. Nossig)

1896 AD (est) = 9,066,534 (J. Jacobs)

1900 AD = 11,273,076 (Calculated by Census Data)

1901 AD (est) = 11,206,849 (Jewish Encyclopedia)

1902 AD (est) = 10,319,402 (I. Harris)

1904 AD (est) = 10,456,000 (A. Ruppin)

1905 AD (est) = 10,932,777 (American Jewish Yearbook, 1904-1905)

1920 AD (est) = 14,500,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1933 AD (est) = 17,000,000 (Anderson, Norman - The World's Religions)

1934 AD (est) = 15,700,000 (Ferm, Vergilius - An Encyclopedia of Religion)

1942 AD (est) = 18,000,000 (Oxtoby, Willard G - The Meaning of Other Faiths)

1942 AD (est) = 16,030,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1942 AD (est) = 18,000,000 (Palmer, Spencer J. & Roger R. Keller.- Religions of the World)

1942 - 1945 ("Holocaust" / Shoah / die Endlösung -6,200,000)

1945 AD (est) = 11,000,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1950 AD (est) = 11,297,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1960 AD (est) = 12,079,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1970 AD (est) = 12,585,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1980 AD (est) = 12,819,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

1990 AD (est) = 12,868,000 (American Jewish Yearbook)

2000 AD (est) = 13,212,500 (American Jewish Yearbook)

2001 AD (est) = 13,252,100 (American Jewish Yearbook)

2002 AD = 13,296,100 (World Census)

2005 AD (est) = 14,596,017 (American Jewish Yearbook)

2010 AD (est) = 15,979,534 (Projected population based on 2005 to 2005
trend)





It should be easy to note that the last figure given by the American Jewish Yearbook is grossly over exaggerated.

As you can also see, if it wasn't for the data between 1900 and 1938, then you would have a horizontal line showing a constant growth period over the last 180 years. What is interesting is that within the 100 years between 1838 and 1938 it is claimed that the Jewish population only grew four fold from 3.5 million to 15 million. This is statistically not possible as it would mean they had less than 3 children per Jewish couple for five generations (1 generation being 20 years approximately), in a time when large families were the norm.

This does not add allow for death before reproductive age like accidents and wars either.

Most of the statistical sources also state that the Jewish people are leaving their faith due to "mixed marriages" with Christians. Another possible reason is that due to oppression against the Jewish people, the Jewish people are no longer calling themselves Jewish. This was not possible in the past as they were restricted from converting by their faith, but in the last 30 years of liberalism within the Jewish community.

[Ed: It is interesting to note that the media, entertainment industry, Jewish pressure groups and the "history" books lead us to believe that during 1942 to 1945, that 6 Million Jews allegedly perished but as we can see from the above information supplied by Jewish scholars themselves is quite on the contrary.]

------------------

What do you have to say about that?

Well firstly, a very nice copy and paste job. Most of your lot usually cut some off the start or the end, so its nice to see one of you can C+P correctly. As to the figures, they're complete bullshit. The Torah numbers are irrelevant as per usual, and the rest are so fucked up and confused that they don't make sense half the time.

And, as per usual with your lots evidence, this fails to take into account the other five million or so Russians, Gypsies, Mentally Retarded and others that were killed by the Nazi regime. Where are they?

(Oh, and nice of you to keep the part about jewish pressure groups and such. It just shows where your biases are...)

EDIT: You fool, the answer is right in the figures you cited. The jewish population goes down by more than six million between 1942 (Wansee Conference) and 1945. God, you can't even read the 'evidence' you provide...

The five sources prior to the Holocaust average 17 million, the ones after begin at 11 million and display steady growth. looks like 6 million to me. I may be wrong, please tell me how.

I might be wrong, but many jewish died prior to world war 2 in:
A. pogroms in russia
B. the great war, apperantly many jewish people fought in the armies of the countries they resided... weird, isn't it?

The five sources prior to the Holocaust average 17 million, the ones after begin at 11 million and display steady growth. looks like 6 million to me. I may be wrong, please tell me how.
QFT

Apologies, but Im new.
What does QFT mean?

Apologies, but Im new.
What does QFT mean?
Quoted for truth

Maybe you should see the notes the Germans kept at Auschwitz and Dachau. I've been to both places, and it appears that the Germans kept meticulous notes about how many they killed every day.

Usually by the trainload - at one point at Auschwitz, 4000 to 5000 per day.

Primary source. Irrefutable.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm

Im not christian, but this site makes some great points.

here's a quote from the site that definitly gets to my point. Read the rest at the link I provided.


------------
Though six million Jews supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or Allied bombings and a great many of those were murdered Germans, not Jews. Roughly the equivalent of ten football fields should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, yet not one body has ever been discovered.

The Germans documented everything in meticulous detail from shrubbery to arbors, but no pre-war or wartime plans or documents exist that detail or even mention any gas chambers for reasons of genocide. All documents ever presented were drawn up AFTER the war.

Even if we threw away all the evidence and accounted for every so-called gas chamber, it would have taken 68 YEARS to accomplish gassing six million Jews!

Even The Diary of Anne Frank is a hoax. Portions of the diary were written with a ball point pen. These pens were not in use at the time Anne Frank lived.

It is not denied concentration camps existed. Tragically, many died of typhus or starvation, as often happens in such situations. There is, however, no evidence that any gassings occurred for the reasons of genocide.

Israel continues to receive trillions of dollars worldwide as retribution for Holocaust gassings. Our country has donated more money to Israel than to any other country in the history of the world -- over $35 billion per year, everything included. If not for our extravagantly generous gifts to Israel, every family in America could afford a brand new Mercedes Benz. Surely the American people would be outraged if they realized their hard-earned money is being squandered in these difficult times.

With all this money at stake for Israel, it is easy to comprehend why this Holocaust hoax is so secretly guarded. The Jewish name for Holocaust is "Shoah." In Zionist circles, it is known as "Shoah Business." If nothing else, this unbelievable coverup demonstrates the irrepressible Zionist influence and control of our country. Their only defense against the facts is to cry out "antisemitic," "Skinhead" or "Nazi," whereas the majority of those who question the Holocaust are ordinary citizens...though you would never know it from the media.
-----------------

What are all of your opinions on this?

Groovy.
I really dont understand what he is talking about

Edit
This was in response to the QFT question/response, not Nova's latest baloney

I know the size, and I also know that the mandade is much smaller than the historic Israel and that the mandate is more represntative of the population who was there at the time. The Jews were a majority in the region under discussion. I also think you'll find that your statistics include Jordan, which makes the percenage (when corrected) more like 30-40%.

They had 7-8% of land in the area considered by the UN commission that proposed the partition. Though one can have a higher percentage if one excludes non-agricultural land, I am unaware of any statistics presented at the time that have awarded such a figure as yours. Please supply a source.

blah blah blah Achtung! I love you, mein Fuhrer!Jesus was not Jewish!!!blah blah blah
-----------------
What are all of your opinions on this?

Its more bollocks. (Would you rather I be more blunt?)

Is anyone here familiar with David Cole?

He's a jewish historical revisionist. Hee is what he had to say about his trip to Auschwitz and other camps:
------------------
Now that I've gone through the Auschwitz main camp, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Majdanek, Mauthausen, and Dachau, I feel even more secure in my position as a Revisionist that there exists no convincing evidence that Jews or anyone else were taken EN MASSE into gas chambers and killed by the Nazis at these camps. In fact, the remains that I inspected at the camp sites seem, in many different ways, to directly contradict these claims.

I returned to the United States with more than 25 hours of video footage from the camps. At Majdanek I uncovered obvious tampering with the buildings exhibited as gas chambers. This evidence was discovered when my attractive camerawoman busted a lock and got us into a room that is not open to tourists. There we were able to view several items in their original state, most notably the doors, which were clearly constructed to latch from both the outside AND the inside."
-----------------

David Cole is a jew who was raised and educated in Los Angeles, where he lives and works. Because of his support for Holocaust Revisionism, he was assaulted during a meeting at the University of California at Los Angeles on January 22, 1992, by thugs of the jewish Defense League, who hit him in the face and bloodied his nose. jDL leader Irv Rubin also tried to push Cole down a flight of stairs. In April 1992 he appeared -- along with Journal editor Mark Weber -- as a guest on the Montel Williams Show, a nationally syndicated television program, to present the Revisionist view of the Holocaust story.

http://www.zundelsite.org/english/advanced_articles/incorrect.004.html

Can anyone explian this to me without being closed minded?

http://www.zundelsite.org/english/advanced_articles/incorrect.004.html

I will read yours and do my best, if you read mine

http://www.stormfront.org/solargeneral/library/www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/reconstruction_2_WSJ.html

it answers many of your claims

Just Because Somone Is Opposed To Zionism Does Not Make Them A Neo-nazi.

That Is Slander.

actually its libel

Palestinians are Arabs, and they still occupy the land :rolleyes:

and most jews are arab. so what now :rolleyes:

http://www.zundelsite.org/english/advanced_articles/incorrect.004.html

Can anyone explian this to me without being closed minded?

http://www.zundelsite.org/english/advanced_articles/incorrect.004.html


You are not going to like this, but. Most of them are baloney, it would take to long to go by case by case, but you could do it yourself if you really wanted to. An instance of the rediculousness is the 20 hours to gas someone. Here I can copy paste a reply too:

The delousing gas chambers were a standard feature, and were left intact by the SS (the extermination gas chambers were dynamited in an effort to conceal criminal traces). Holocaust denial asserts that more Hydrocyanic compounds were found in the delousing chambers in Auschwitz than in the ruins of the extermination gas chambers.

Therefore mass murder using the gas could not have taken took place within because then the opposite would be in evidence. This reasoning proves erroneous in its logic.

HCN is much more effective on warm-blooded animals, including humans, than it is on insects. The exposure period (to HCN) is much greater in delousing operations than in homicidal gassings. This means that a much lower concentration is necessary to kill people than to get rid of lice, etc.
In delousing, concentrations of up to 16,000 ppm (parts per million) are sometimes used, and exposure time can be up to 72 hours; while 300 ppm will kill people in fifteen minutes or so.
Therefore, the HCN in the extermination chambers hardly had time to form compounds on the walls. Since the concentration used was higher than the lethal one, death was very swift.
While some claim that the gas would need a lot of time to kill, because it would have to spread all over the chamber, it simply is not true. The gas chambers were not that large (those in Krematoria II and III were about 210 square meters) And the Zyklon-B was dropped from four openings (still visible in the ruins of the gas chambers). Cyanide compounds were found on the ventilation grills of the extermination chambers, showing that gassing did take place inside them.
Furthermore, the delousing chambers are intact while the extermination chambers were blown up. Therefore, their walls have been exposed to the elements for the last 50 years. The ruins of the gas chamber of Krema II are covered with about 3 feet of water during certain periods of the year; HCN compounds easily dissolve in these surroundings. Nonetheless, so much gassing took place over suck a long period that some of the compound remained even from the lower concentration.
Summarizing, the walls of the extermination gas chambers were in contact with HCN for a much shorter time then those of the delousing chambers, and for the last 45 years were exposed to surroundings which dissolve the compounds, while the delousing rooms were not. Therefore it is obvious that less traces of compounds would remain in them.

This fact - that all, or most, of the compounds would vanish during 45 years of exposure - is clearly stated in the report written by the experts of the Cracow Institute of Forensic Research. (Auschwitz, page 9)

Okay I have got to run, but I think that you could answer most of the questions raised by your sources if you took some time to research both sides.

I'm trying to figure out how Nova can deny primary source material.

Wannsee Conference notes.
Heydrich's letters
Innumerable photographs
German camp records of the killings

It's not something you can deny.

There is no proof of a planned systematic killing of millions by teh National Soclaists of Germany. That is one of the the MYTHS about the holocaust.

oh no?

[QUOTE=Cullons;12083956]for people that say that the holocaust is false or exagerated.

mobile killing squads.
http://www.rumbula.org/einsatzgruppen_latvia.shtml

Rudolf Höss
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1946Hoess.html

CIA info
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/05/nara050802.html

You obviously know NOTHING of the real world if you assume that Israel is a little peaceful nation and that the National Socialist goverment of Germany was as bad as the media makes it out to be.

The only person knowing nothing here is you as NO ONE has claimed that Israel hasn't done anything wrong. And yes, the NSDAP was bad as everyone makes them out to believe.

Nah, that didn't sound like it was racist... right?

Sounded like it to me.

So, you deny my claims? Just turn on your TV if you own one. Tell me I'm wrong afterwords.

---Edit---

I just noticed you're from Israel. I will expect everything you say will be biased when in regards to zionism and international media.

Go get a job you worthless troll. I bet some Jew took your girlfriend and you're pissed off about it.

Actually, only a jew or somone who was brainwashed would say something like that. It's being ignorant by choice, to me is brainwashing.

If pointing out that simple fact is racist, than so be it.

So anyone who disagrees with you is either brainwashed or a jew? Oh brother :rolleyes:

Sounded like it to me.
Your sarcasm detector is broken today.

No no, you get it wrong, according to the historian he posted, it's impossible that jews multiplied in 100 years.... so that's why 6 million jews couldn't have died in the holocaust...
So, basically, all that theory is about making the assumption and relying on numbers... way to go :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Population2Centuries.jpg
this seems to show the the french population only double in that same period. Must be wrong through because nova says large families were the norm.....:rolleyes:

So, you deny my claims? Just turn on your TV if you own one. Tell me I'm wrong afterwords.

---Edit---

I just noticed you're from Israel. I will expect everything you say will be biased when in regards to zionism and international media.

WE have a troll here ladies and gentlemen.

Dude by doing that, you show yourself to be a racist.

There are gases that leave no trace after their use

Again, having your own personal opinion is good and well, but do you know what zionism means?

We already been that route! He does not know what it means.

just quoting myself again. curious to see if anyone can refute this....

oh no?

[QUOTE=Cullons;12083956]for people that say that the holocaust is false or exagerated.

mobile killing squads.
http://www.rumbula.org/einsatzgruppen_latvia.shtml

Rudolf Höss
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1946Hoess.html

CIA info
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/05/nara050802.html

There is no proof of ANY workable gas chambers at auschwitz, where they claimed to kill 2,000+ people a day. They also said that they only killed at night, a maximum of 12 hours. That means 2, 000 bodies in 12 hours.

You do realize that Auschwitz was actually 2 camps right? One was a force labor camp (auschwitz) while the camp with it was the extermination camp. It had I believe 4 gas chambers and a crematorium.

And yes there is proof that there was a workable gas chamber at said camp. thank you for denying the fact that people died at auschwitz. You just proved yourself to be a holocaust denier. Please come back when you are educated. Thank you.

Also, you say "sheer ruthlessness", which isnt teh case at all. Explain the swimming pools, the theaters, the bands, the acting classes etc that they allowed the jews and other inmates partake in.

Oh I'm calling Bullshit on this one. Please prove what you are saying. Oh please please prove it.

Sure, I dont deny that many jews and others deemed enemies of the state dies while in captivity. Its just the method of their death, and the lies taht followed it that makes me upset.

Which again proves you deny what happened.

History books are written by liars nothing that you read is true. If they dont want you to know about something, they keep teh facts from you.

You owe me 20.00 for a new bullshit alarm.

Those numbers were invented BEFORE the war.

*dies of laughter*

Thanks. I needed a laugh before my last two finals.

There is no proof of a planned systematic killing of millions by teh National Soclaists of Germany. That is one of the the MYTHS about the holocaust.

And yet you say you do not deny the holocaust. Yea right :rolleyes:

oh and just for the heck of it a few more links

http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/faqs/answers/faq_3.html
http://hist.academic.claremontmckenna.edu/jpetropoulos/arrow/holocaust/holocaust.htm
http://vip.latnet.lv/LPRA/EZERG_intr.html
http://www.archives.gov/iwg/research-papers/breitman-chilean-diplomats.html
http://www.ushmm.org/research/library/faq/details.php?topic=01#05
i really like this one. from Al-Jazeera
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/archive/archive?ArchiveId=22099

What are all of your opinions on this?

I call it holocaust denial.

I call it holocaust denial.

I prefer "bollocks" as its more succinct.

I prefer "bollocks" as its more succinct.

No, that gives too much credit to testicles.

We obviously need some of this, though

http://www.speeding.co.uk/acatalog/bullshit_repellent2.JPG

No, that gives too much credit to testicles.

We obviously need some of this, though

http://www.speeding.co.uk/acatalog/bullshit_repellent2.JPG

hey be careful how you use this. there would be no-one left on these forums :D

You have to ask yourself, why do these people blow themselves up? Its because if israeli policies and actions.

Or, as Hammas have so often stated, its because of Israels very existance

They hate the Jews, they have made it clear on any number of occasions

But that is not what they are doing. They are only criminals because Israel and the USA said they were. They are what is left of an armned national resistance of their land. An organized army isnt working
for them, so they have to resort to resistance and freedom cells. Leaderless resistance is by far more effective when you have small numbers of fighters, like they do.

No, they are criminals and terrorists because they target civilians as opposed to military and government instalations.

Israel prospers at the expense of innocent Arab life. The treatment of those people by Israli forces is barbaric in compairison to National Socialist Germany.

Funny, the Arabs who are Israelie citizens actually have more freedoms than they would anywhere else in the Arab world.

Perhaps if Israel ceased to occupy their land, the Arabs would leave them alone too.

And perhaps if the Arabs accepted the Isralie offers to give up the land, there would be peace

Perhaps if the Arabs wanted peace more than their own state, they would have it.

Im not a holocaust denier.


You have denied there was a systematic attempt to kill all the Jews in the third Reich

The Holocaust was a systematic attempt to kill all the Jews in the Third Reich

Ergo you are a holocaust denier

Funny, the Arabs who are Israelie citizens actually have more freedoms than they would anywhere else in the Arab world.

Neo its even better than that. HALF the jewish population of Israel is arab.

Funny, the Arabs who are Israelie citizens actually have more freedoms than they would anywhere else in the Arab world.


Unless they want to buy land or, if Bedouin, have their villages "recognised".

And what about the Arabs forced to live under Israeli occupation outside Israel?

And perhaps if the Arabs accepted the Isralie offers to give up the land, there would be peace

Perhaps if the Arabs wanted peace more than their own state, they would have it.There were neither Israeli offers to give up the land nor of peace.
Arabs don't want peace under Israeli conditions. Who would want the 'peace' of occupiers?

Who would want the 'peace' of occupiers?

The French?

The French?wtf?

wtf?

http://static.flickr.com/11/88251043_8da7216444_o.jpg

Didn't study history, I see...

http://static.flickr.com/11/88251043_8da7216444_o.jpg
Didn't study history, I see...So this is what? I've never seen this, although I lived in France.
By who was France occupied when this flag was used?

So this is what?

ROFLMAO.

It's the flag of Vichy France. The French surrendered to Nazi Germany (their occupiers) rather quickly.

They also mounted ZERO acts of resistance UNTIL the British Special Operations Executive organized and recruited French people and trained and supplied them.

Up until that point, the French just went along with the occupation.

ROFLMAO.

It's the flag of Vichy France. The French surrendered to Nazi Germany (their occupiers) rather quickly.

They also mounted ZERO acts of resistance UNTIL the British Special Operations Executive organized and recruited French people and trained and supplied them.

Up until that point, the French just went along with the occupation.Well, I know about Vichy but I've never seen the flag.
So you would advise Palestinian leaders to just accept occupation in the same way and collaborate with the occupiers and thus commit treason against their own people?

Well, I know about Vichy but I've never seen the flag.
So you would advise Palestinian leaders to just accept occupation in the same way and collaborate with the occupiers and thus commit treason against their own people?

Yes. Military victory simply is not possible, and the decades of "struggle" have only served to impoverish the Palestinian people and encourage a political structure that is more corrupt than most people can imagine.

Well, the first step in being brainwashedis to not know you're brainwashed. You are force fed pro-zionist and multiculturalist ideals all day through popular advertising, the mass media and many other social outlets.

To deny that fact IS saying you're brainwashed, unless you are one of teh few who can look beyond the lies of the western worlds social fabric.


Oh god he's right that bacon advert makes me want to give Israel the entire middle east. And you are a holocaust denier Nova, the holocaust of WWII is defined as the systematic murder of undesireables by Nazi Germany, you deny this and attribute nearly all the deaths in camps to illnesses and living conditions caused by lack of supplies. I'm willing to admit there is a minor point in there, that those will have affected the total death toll but I still believe the majority of it was through systematic murder.

Yes. Military victory simply is not possible, and the decades of "struggle" have only served to impoverish the Palestinian people and encourage a political structure that is more corrupt than most people can imagine.So you advise them to admit defeat and just submit to foreign rule (again) ?

So you advise them to admit defeat and just submit to foreign rule?

It's not foreign rule. If you look at how Israeli Arabs within Israel get on, compared to the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, it's more political freedom, more jobs, more education...

Oh god he's right that bacon advert makes me want to give Israel the entire middle east. And you are a holocaust denier Nova, the holocaust of WWII is defined as the systematic murder of undesireables by Nazi Germany, you deny this and attribute nearly all the deaths in camps to illnesses and living conditions caused by lack of supplies. I'm willing to admit there is a minor point in there, that those will have affected the total death toll but I still believe the majority of it was through systematic murder."Holocaust" has been dubbed by Jews to mean the murder of Jews in Nazi Germany. Jews never gave a s*** for the other victims.

"Holocaust" has been dubbed by Jews to mean the murder of Jews in Nazi Germany. Jews never gave a s*** for the other victims.

I guess that's why there's a lot of non-Jew memorabilia on display at the Holocaust Museum... which is run and directed by Jews...

It's not foreign rule. If you look at how Israeli Arabs within Israel get on, compared to the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, it's more political freedom, more jobs, more education...Israeli rule is foreign rule.

Israeli rule is foreign rule.

Nope. Israel was around for a long time.

Read your Bible.

"Holocaust" has been dubbed by Jews to mean the murder of Jews in Nazi Germany. Jews never gave a s*** for the other victims.

Neither do most others. The fact that homosexuals were also exterminated en masse during the holocaust for instance does not help them to obtain a marriage license in the USA.

I wonder how well homosexuals are received at Stormfront - or in Iran - or at a KKK meeting...

So you advise them to admit defeat and just submit to foreign rule (again) ?

I advise them to get smart, the elimination of Israel is a pipe dream and their current tactics cost them more public support then it gains them. Go for nonviolent protest, ditch the guns use video cameras instead, turn from coconspirator in a circle of violence to pacifist. If violence continues from Israel they will hold the moral high ground and be able to gain far greater support from the rest of the world, that public support can then be used as a tool at the negotiating table.

Israeli rule is foreign rule.

I'm curious
would you actually want an end to the state of israel which

1. would mean all those territories would become palestine?
1a. allowing the jewish population to continue living there
1b. be removed to 'where they came from'

If you choose 1b would that also mean the millions of palestinians in jordan, etc.. should then be forcibly moved to palestine?

I advise them to get smart, the elimination of Israel is a pipe dream and their current tactics cost them more public support then it gains them. Go for nonviolent protest, ditch the guns use video cameras instead, turn from coconspirator in a circle of violence to pacifist. If violence continues from Israel they will hold the moral high ground and be able to gain far greater support from the rest of the world, that public support can then be used as a tool at the negotiating table.

Excellent advice.

One of the problems with Islamic militancy in general is that they have no Gandhi.

I wonder how well homosexuals are received at Stormfront - or in Iran - or at a KKK meeting...

Poorly. But unlike the Jews they did not get a "gayland"...
However, that just indicates that not all holocaust victims get reasonable recognition. Not that the recognition of Jewish losses resulting in Israel was unjustified.

Excellent advice.

One of the problems with Islamic militancy in general is that they have no Gandhi.

that's the bugger with suicide bombing...

actually that's a question i have for anyone that knows.

the Israeli government is has alot of ex-army politicians. So when they give an order to attack/counterattack the politicians know what the troops will go through and the soldiers know the the politicians have been in the same situation.

How does that work when someone convinces you to go blow yourself up? An old man saying your doing something great for the cause?

It scares me that this thread has reached 133 pages.

I'm curious
would you actually want an end to the state of israel which

1. would mean all those territories would become palestine?
1a. allowing the jewish population to continue living there
1b. be removed to 'where they came from'

If you choose 1b would that also mean the millions of palestinians in jordan, etc.. should then be forcibly moved to palestine?

He's already stated he doesn't care who gets displaced or ethnically cleansed as long as it isn't the Palestinians.

Poorly. But unlike the Jews they did not get a "gayland"...
However, that just indicates that not all holocaust victims get reasonable recognition. Not that the recognition of Jewish losses resulting in Israel was unjustified.

i hate to nitpick ver such a terrbile event..
but there was one difference.
they could only go after people that were known to be gay, whether its a relationship, gossip, etc...

with the jews they went after anyone that was of the jewish faith (regardless or family background) and/or had any 'jewish' blood.

It scares me that this thread has reached 133 pages.

well vinland help keep it going with is ironclad proof that the holocaust was a gross exageration and only a blind gypsie with one leg and no arms died in the concentration camps. Except for that one accident caused by a scratch from a rusty nail, the camps were used to 'concentrate' the jewish population so that they could be transported outside the country...:headbang:

How does that work when someone convinces you to go blow yourself up? An old man saying your doing something great for the cause?

Interpretation of the Qu'ran and the Hadith leaves them believing they're martyrs who are going straight to heaven where they'll have 72 perfect eternal virgins waiting for them. As well as patriotic brainwashing and financial motivation provided by others who want to hurt Israel while keeping their hands clean.