NationStates Jolt Archive

Jews do. They are the real Nazis today.

absolutely.

I suggest you go back to the section of this thread where it was discussed, in detail.

I don't have to. I've read history books.

absolutely.

And you said you are not a hateful person :rolleyes:

While I may not totally agree with stoning gays,

Wait, you do not "totally agree with stoning gays"? So you do partially, agree with the concept of stoning gays?

This thread is still running???

Nazis=/=Israel

http://www.trephination.net/gallery/macros/endthread.gif

While I may not totally agree with stoning gays, I would perfer a society where Islam is the way of life for everyone. The more devout one becomes to Islam, the better.

Thats not what I'm asking.
I'm asking do you think its right to burn Bibles, and kill people who convert from Islam to another religion. And what would you think if Christian countries started buring Quran and killing people who convert TO islam.
And United Beleriand, I'm still waiting for your opinion.

People are still discussing the topic, even though we are at 184 pages strong. WTF? This is supposed to be a spam-fest now!

People are still discussing the topic, even though we are at 184 pages strong. WTF? This is supposed to be a spam-fest now!
That's what I thought.

Thats not what I'm asking.
I'm asking do you think its right to burn Bibles, and kill people who convert from Islam to another religion. And what would you think if Christian countries started buring Quran and killing people who convert TO islam.
And United Beleriand, I'm still waiting for your opinion.

United Beleriand isn't going to say anything.

Anything that goes against his way of thinking, he ignores (unless it pertains to the jews, then he just froths at the mouth and spouts dribble) Very passive-aggressive flamebaiting if you ask me. Same w/ Sovietstan.

Jews do. They are the real Nazis today.

You're just talking crap.You're not a Jew,so you can't possibly speak for their beliefs.

absolutely.

YOU are just encouraging him.I had a smidgen of respect for you when you refuted that "Infidels of the West" guy in that thread he started.But it just disappeared.When are you going to get it into your head that Jews are not teh ebil and you are being thoroughly ridiculous?

I don't have to. I've read history books.

Yes, but of whose planet? Either find and refute the points made earlier, or cry to "momma". Either works.

Wait, you do not "totally agree with stoning gays"? So you do partially, agree with the concept of stoning gays?

I can understand why its done.

United Beleriand isn't going to say anything.

Anything that goes against his way of thinking, he ignores (unless it pertains to the jews, then he just froths at the mouth and spouts dribble) Very passive-aggressive flamebaiting if you ask me. Same w/ Sovietstan.

I would not go quite that far with Sovietstan. At least he does answer whereas UB just labels everyone an anti-semite for disagreeing with his POV.

I can understand why its done.

Not what I asked you. I asked you if, at any time, would you, in any way, support stoning gays for being gay?

YOU are just encouraging him.I had a smidgen of respect for you when you refuted that "Infidels of the West" guy in that thread he started.But it just disappeared.When are you going to get it into your head that Jews are not teh ebil and you are being thoroughly ridiculous?

I've come to the conclusion the jew is not a friend to any Muslim or Arab. They have angered Allah, surely they should not be in the favour of Muslims.

You're just talking crap.You're not a Jew,so you can't possibly speak for their beliefs.

Has that stopped anyone before? LOL

I've come to the conclusion the jew is not a friend to any Muslim or Arab. They have angered Allah, surely they should not be in the favour of Muslims.

So in other words, your nothing but a pig who hates things that he does not understand. Do you know that not all Jews hate muslims or does that not compute with your way of thinking?

I've come to the conclusion the jew is not a friend to any Muslim or Arab. They have angered Allah, surely they should not be in the favour of Muslims.

well since you've "come to that conclusion" and basically stated the jews are the enemy of all Arabs, I guess Israel would be perfectly in it's right taking over a few middle eastern countries then right?

That is, after all, what you do with your enemies, and are you sure that's a line you want to travel down?

I can understand why it's ( stoning gays ) done.


You do? Have they blown up any innocent people lately?

While I may not totally agree with stoning gays, I would perfer a society where Islam is the way of life for everyone. The more devout one becomes to Islam, the better.

That is not your choice to make for others.

I've come to the conclusion the jew is not a friend to any Muslim or Arab. They have angered Allah, surely they should not be in the favour of Muslims.

Angering "Allah" hasnt exactly been the road to ruin for them now, has it? Its the muslim side that seems to be taking the pounding, as far as I can tell.

Angering "Allah" hasnt exactly been the road to ruin for them now, has it? Its the muslim side that seems to be taking the pounding, as far as I can tell.


Allah and his followers should be more concerned with angering the God of Christianity.

Allah and his followers should be more concerned with angering the God of Christianity.

My God is Better than Your God, wank wank.

News Flash.

It's all one guy.

Probably in a business suit, laughing His ass off at how so many people can kill each other over how they see what He meant.

Probably in a business suit, laughing His ass off at how so many people can kill each other over how they see what He meant.

If he's really the all loving dude we characterize him as, I'd imagine he's probably got a fucking gun to his head ready to pull the trigger for all the shit his creation is doing.

United Beleriand isn't going to say anything.

Anything that goes against his way of thinking, he ignores (unless it pertains to the jews, then he just froths at the mouth and spouts dribble) Very passive-aggressive flamebaiting if you ask me. Same w/ Sovietstan.

Yup neither he nor Soviestan will answer this. And why? Because THEY DO BELIVE THAT.
They believe that its GOOD to burn bibles and kill people who convert from Islam. They believe that Muslims should have all the religious rights, anywhere they go, but they also believe that no one else should.
And thats whats wrong with Islam. People like them. They make me sick.

My God is Better than Your God, wank wank.

News Flash.

It's all one guy.

Probably in a business suit, laughing His ass off at how so many people can kill each other over how they see what He meant.

If you don't know what your talking about you should just keep quiet

If he's really the all loving dude we characterize him as, I'd imagine he's probably got a fucking gun to his head ready to pull the trigger for all the shit his creation is doing.


Actually he is probly making really to come back to Earth to judge his creation for all the stupid things they are saying & doing.

If you don't know what your talking about you should just keep quiet

He has a point. The three big religions all fervently believe in their own version of God, and that only He exists in Heaven. So, which religion is right? And which two are wrong? Not to mention the other, smaller, religions and their versions of God...

He has a point. The three big religions all fervently believe in their own version of God, and that only He exists in Heaven. So, which religion is right? And which two are wrong? Not to mention the other, smaller, religions and their versions of God...

Thats the choice you & everyone else is going to have to figure out, hope you all make the right choice ... I know I did! Can you say that?

Thats the choice your going to have to figure out, hope you make the right choice.

Agnostic, leaning towards Atheist, old chum. Let all the others worry about being sent to Heaven and Hell, and not 'sinning'. I'm far too busy to worry about fictional books and bigots; I have enough to do with my actual life. I intend to get as much done as I can before I die; once you're in the ground, you can't really do much else, what with the rotting and all.

If you don't know what your talking about you should just keep quiet

heh... Allah, the Christian and Jewish Gods..... all the same God.

Yup neither he nor Soviestan will answer this. And why? Because THEY DO BELIVE THAT.
They believe that its GOOD to burn bibles and kill people who convert from Islam. They believe that Muslims should have all the religious rights, anywhere they go, but they also believe that no one else should.
And thats whats wrong with Islam. People like them. They make me sick.

and that's what is wrong w/ the world today. People still have closed minds.

I've come to the conclusion the jew is not a friend to any Muslim or Arab. They have angered Allah, surely they should not be in the favour of Muslims.

Explain how.Because,not are you only speaking for every single follower of Islam,you are speaking for Allah.Grow up.

Huh. I guess they are hiding the Palestinian death camps quite well. And their invasion of their neighbors must have been done without anyone knowing a thing! There must be divisions of the IDF entering Tehran right now and the Jewish control of the media means we don't know anything about it! I mean, what else could you mean by actually saying Jews are Nazis?So I suppose you just don't know what national socialism as a political direction really meant. To sacrifice the rights of the individual for the "greater aim". Jews were very ready to sacrifice the rights of Palestinian Arabs individuals and families for their ideologically driven desire for a state. They came to supplant the people of the land. That was their socialism elevated to their national dimension. Zionism is racism, and the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine (in the way it was done) is one implementation of racism. I will never accept this injustice by the West against Arabs, the enforcement of foreign tyranny of colonial powers hiding behind the UN, and the desire of a religious group for a land they wanted to take from others by all means. And while the Nazis are gone, Israel has been around for 60 years to poison the Middle East with their victorious western invaders' arrogance. But victory in the field doesn't render the victor righteous (rather self-righteous). The very concept of Israel is evil to the core. After Turkish, British, and Jewish oppression it really is time to return Palestine to the Arabs. No more Wall and no more third class humans parted from their land and their ancestors'.

and that's what is wrong w/ the world today. People still have closed minds.Yes, the "political correct" western buttholes, who just cannot see what suffering the cause beyond the immediate sight of their eyes.

Yes, the "political correct" western buttholes, who just cannot see what suffering the cause beyond the immediate sight of their eyes.

Oh we see the suffering. That was why we were giving money to help the Palestinians till Hamas got into power. We stopped because of their refusal to renounce violence and actually negotiate as any normal government would do. Hell, even North Korea engages in Diplomacy.

So Grow up about us not seeing the suffering.

Thats the choice you & everyone else is going to have to figure out, hope you all make the right choice ... I know I did! Can you say that?

O I know this one....... "WHEN JESUS RETURNS (Christ II - the angering)". You're as bad as the other eejit.

He has a point. The three big religions all fervently believe in their own version of God, and that only He exists in Heaven. So, which religion is right? And which two are wrong?Ever read Nathan the Wise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_der_Weise) by Lessing?

So I suppose you just don't know what national socialism as a political direction really meant. To sacrifice the rights of the individual for the "greater aim". Jews were very ready to sacrifice the rights of Palestinian Arabs individuals and families for their ideologically driven desire for a state. They came to supplant the people of the land. That was their socialism elevated to their national dimension. Zionism is racism, and the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine (in the way it was done) is one implementation of racism. I will never accept this injustice by the West against Arabs, the enforcement of foreign tyranny of colonial powers hiding behind the UN, and the desire of a religious group for a land they wanted to take from others by all means. And while the Nazis are gone, Israel has been around for 60 years to poison the Middle East with their victorious western invaders' arrogance. But victory in the field doesn't render the victor righteous (rather self-righteous). The very concept of Israel is evil to the core. After Turkish, British, and Jewish oppression it really is time to return Palestine to the Arabs. No more Wall and no more third class humans parted from their land and their ancestors'.



Its ok UB. Someof these people dont quite understand that land in the middle east was OWNED by BOTH Arabs AND Hebrews. The fact is back before WW1 Zionists(not all Jews but the radical ones)pushed and shoved others including the GB government of that time to get what they wanted, land.
Here is an idea, let all the Arabs and Jews that dont like the fighting and killing into Jordon for a short time and let the ones that want ot kill each other do just that, kill each other.....that way we solved the problem. :rolleyes:

I mean come on, if it werent for the Zionists pushing their agenda, we wouldnt be where we are today....

Its also scarey to see Soviestan stating that Islam is perfect.....that is fucking scary.....ALL religions are a danger and threat, not just one.....

Oh we see the suffering. That was why we were giving money to help the Palestinians till Hamas got into power. We stopped because of their refusal to renounce violence and actually negotiate as any normal government would do. Hell, even North Korea engages in Diplomacy.

So Grow up about us not seeing the suffering.

N. Korea involved in negotiations? Are you crazy? :eek: :confused:

N. Korea involved in negotiations? Are you crazy? :eek: :confused:

Nope. At least they are talking to other nations that they perceive as opposing them. Hamas has vowed for the destruction of Israel and has refused to do what is necessary to receive the funds that the PA normally receives from Federal Governments. Hamas still has not renounced violence and refuses to negotiate with Israel. Why do you think that Abbas has called for elections?

I've come to the conclusion the jew is not a friend to any Muslim or Arab. They have angered Allah, surely they should not be in the favour of Muslims.

Right, and that makes you not racist at all

Whose calling who a nazi?

So your islamic and seem pretty down on jews and christian, somewhere in the new testament jesus says "judge not lest you be judged" any way you might remember that the islamic nations around isreal are doing a great job of showing peacefull intentions and level-headedness, most of isreals actions are just and nessacry for their national security,any way although the jews and christians have made mistakes and continue to make them, but remember to not turn a blind eye to the faults of yourself and muslims as a whole. also it's a fourm of anonline game what are you trying to accomplish, insult a few jews, make people think your a little far out there, or make the world realize that isreal is the work of satan sould be destroyed, all because you posted a thread and a few reponses.

Thats not what I'm asking.
I'm asking do you think its right to burn Bibles, and kill people who convert from Islam to another religion. And what would you think if Christian countries started buring Quran and killing people who convert TO islam.


Thats a difficult question to answer but part of me feels that Muslims should be with Muslims and unbelievers with each other.

Not what I asked you. I asked you if, at any time, would you, in any way, support stoning gays for being gay?

If it is supported by Islamic law, than perhaps in certain circumstances it would be justified though I'm not sure on that.

Thats a difficult question to answer but part of me feels that Muslims should be with Muslims and unbelievers with each other.
Um, wow. Because segregation works really well, right? Anyway, what does that have to do with Poglavnik's question? And that shouldn't be a difficult question to answer, at least not to the first part. If it is, then... well...

So in other words, your nothing but a pig who hates things that he does not understand. Do you know that not all Jews hate muslims or does that not compute with your way of thinking?

I don't care if jews don't hate Arabs or Muslims. They have turned their back on Allah and went against him. Those who submit to Allah should not befriend those who anger or go against him.

I don't care if jews don't hate Arabs or Muslims. They have turned their back on Allah and went against him. Those who submit to Allah should not befriend those who anger or go against him.

You are creeping me out. See i dont follow ANY GOD or person like you do apparently. I certainly wont befriend a murder or forcer of thier belief on me....

Why Israel? You have to have a reason why.

No. I really, truly don't.

I don't care if jews don't hate Arabs or Muslims. They have turned their back on Allah and went against him. Those who submit to Allah should not befriend those who anger or go against him.

And advocating the deaths of Jews in Israel pleases Allah even though Jews are supposed to be protected as they believe in God or Believers of the Book?

You sir, really need to study Islam more before you advoacte the shit you are advocating.

No. I really, truly don't.

On this forum you do. So I'm asking you, why Israel?

Um, wow. Because segregation works really well, right? Anyway, what does that have to do with Poglavnik's question? And that shouldn't be a difficult question to answer, at least not to the first part. If it is, then... well...

It is a difficult question to answer and I don't there is a simple yes or no answer to it.

And advocating the deaths of Jews in Israel pleases Allah even though Jews are supposed to be protected as they believe in God or Believers of the Book?

You sir, really need to study Islam more before you advoacte the shit you are advocating.

jews are protected so long as they don't attack Muslims. Defending the believers and Allah pleases Allah.

jews are protected so long as they don't attack Muslims. Defending the believers and Allah pleases Allah.

And what if they are provoked into action against Muslims by Muslims? What then? You know that the Koran does not advocate the killing of innocense.

I cannot fucking believe that this thread is still alive.

188 pages. Jesus Howard Christ.

I don't care if jews don't hate Arabs or Muslims. They have turned their back on Allah and went against him. Those who submit to Allah should not befriend those who anger or go against him.

Funny, the Bible talks about loving your enemies. Why do you think there are so many Christian charieies that help the palestinas in the refugee camps

Funny, the Bible talks about loving your enemies. Why do you think there are so many Christian charieies that help the palestinas in the refugee camps

I do not think Sovietstan totally understands that most of us do put religion behind us to assist those in need. Even Israel does try to assist the Palestinians hence the money they send to the PA until recently.

I cannot fucking believe that this thread is still alive.

188 pages. Jesus Howard Christ.
I've been thinking that myself. Funny that the thread with the most stupidly obvious answer is the longest.

I do not think Sovietstan totally understands that most of us do put religion behind us to assist those in need. Even Israel does try to assist the Palestinians hence the money they send to the PA until recently.Assist the Palestinians? By increasing Jewish settlement in the West Bank? By building a detention Wall deep inside the West Bank borders? Israelis all pay for the continued and increased suffering of Palestinians, whatever "assistance" they may offer is but an alibi to ease some of their conscience.

Assist the Palestinians? By increasing Jewish settlement in the West Bank? By building a detention Wall deep inside the West Bank borders? Israelis all pay for the continued and increased suffering of Palestinians, whatever "assistance" they may offer is but an alibi to ease some of their conscience.

*yawns*

So you deny the fact that, until Hamas got elected, they have spent money trying to improve the lives of Palestinians?

I do not think Sovietstan totally understands that most of us do put religion behind us to assist those in need. Even Israel does try to assist the Palestinians hence the money they send to the PA until recently.

Israel doesn't help anyone.

Thats a difficult question to answer but part of me feels that Muslims should be with Muslims and unbelievers with each other.

ok now there are three questions.
1: Do you believe that its ok that muslims burn bibles and kill those that want to convert avay from Islam
Its yes or no.

2: What would you think if christian countries started mass burnings of Quran and killing people who convert to Islam

3: Do you belive that all Muslims should go back to middle east and Westerners go away and leave them alone?

Those are VERY simple questions. First is just Yes or No.
Also STILL waiting for anything from United Beleriand.

Israel doesn't help anyone.

This statement shows how little you know of just how much money Israel had sent to the Palestinian Authority to help them. Goes to show that you are indeed a bigot.

Also STILL waiting for anything from United Beleriand.

Good luck in waiting. You know he ignores all that goes against his perceived beliefs.

*yawns*
So you deny the fact that, until Hamas got elected, they have spent money trying to improve the lives of Palestinians?While they simultaneously built the Apartheid Wall, increased the number Jewish settlers in the West Bank, and by both tried to get hold of more land? Well, I don't care what they do to just calm their conscience. It's all but a disguise for further land grab.
Hamas got elected because of Israeli violence and further humiliation of Palestinians.

While they simultaneously built the Apartheid Wall, increased the number Jewish settlers in the West Bank, and by both tried to get hold of more land?

They do not want more land UB. Get that through your head. They are offering LAND FOR PEACE!!!! It worked with Egypt and it worked for Jordan. They want to give up land but there must be peace in return. It is not a hard concept to understand. Why is it hard for you to understand? Oh wait, its ok for Muslims to conquer land and annex it (see Jordan and the West Bank) but not ok for Israel to do it when they were attacked. They are willing to give up land UB. Do you deny that they want to give up land?

Well, I don't care what they do to just calm their conscience. It's all but a disguise for further land grab.

Which proves that you are full of crap who does not understand that Israel wants peace and does not want land. Shows you do not know your history whatsoever. I dare you to deny that they want to give up land for peace.

Hamas got elected because of Israeli violence and further humiliation of Palestinians.

Actually that was not why they got elected UB.

They do not want more land UB. Get that through your head. They are offering LAND FOR PEACE!!!! It worked with Egypt and it worked for Jordan. They want to give up land but there must be peace in return. It is not a hard concept to understand. Why is it hard for you to understand? Oh wait, its ok for Muslims to conquer land and annex it (see Jordan and the West Bank) but not ok for Israel to do it when they were attacked. They are willing to give up land UB. Do you deny that they want to give up land?Israel is not offering anything. Liar. They are taking.

Which proves that you are full of crap who does not understand that Israel wants peace and does not want land. Shows you do not know your history whatsoever. I dare you to deny that they want to give up land for peace.I've seen no indication for that.

Actually that was not why they got elected UB.That's exactly why. Because Palestinians are fed up with Israelis.

Good luck in waiting. You know he ignores all that goes against his perceived beliefs.

He posted and he is ignoring my posts! how CUTE!
He is SO sad and pathetic.

Israel is not offering anything. Liar. They are taking.

They offered the Sinaii back to Egypt. They took that after they Yom Kipur War. They gave it back in 1979 when they signed their peace agreement with Egypt. They offered land back to the Palestinians in 2000 including east Jerusalem. The only liar here is you.

I've seen no indication for that.

That's because you are blind by your hatred of Israel. Maybe if you take off the blinders once in a while maybe you can see the world like it really is. Either that or follow the news more closely.

That's exactly why. Because Palestinians are fed up with Israelis.

And the corruption by Fatah had nothing to do with it right? You are reading way to much into the elections UB. That was not even close to be the reason why.

He posted and he is ignoring my posts! how CUTE!
He is SO sad and pathetic.

History and logic he does not understand. He is so far behind the times, its not even funny. Look at his responses to me. He called me a liar when I told him about the Land for Peace agreements they signed and want to do. He thinks Israel is just out to take land from the arabs which is not even close to being at all accurate.

Israel is not offering anything. Liar. They are taking.

I've seen no indication for that.

Two words

"Camp David"

Several other words

- Peace with Egypt
- Peace with Jordan
Both done with the trading of Land from Israel for peace

The Camp David accords would have given a Palestinan state 95% of the West Bank, all of Gaza and East Jerusalem.


That's exactly why. Because Palestinians are fed up with Israelis.

So much so that they support Hammases genocide plans?

They offered the Sinaii back to Egypt. They took that after they Yom Kipur War. They gave it back in 1979 when they signed their peace agreement with Egypt. They offered land back to the Palestinians in 2000 including east Jerusalem. The only liar here is you.You are a retard. I told you many times that the 2000 proposal was a annexation of Gaza and the West Bank. They offered no land at all to Palestinians. And I know about the Sinai, but that's just not the same.

That's because you are blind by your hatred of Israel. Maybe if you take off the blinders once in a while maybe you can see the world like it really is. Either that or follow the news more closely.I follow the news very closely. And unlike you I also understand them.
And I don't hate Israel. This is not matter of emotions.

And the corruption by Fatah had nothing to do with it right? You are reading way to much into the elections UB. That was not even close to be the reason why.The main reason was Fatah's inability to shake off Israeli occupation.

You are a retard.

Back to name calling I see. You know, this is not a good way to get any of your points across. Tell me, what do you get out of it for calling me a moron? What purpose does it serve?

I told you many times that the 2000 proposal was a annexation of Gaza and the West Bank.

Of which you have not offered any proof of whatsoever.

They offered no land at all to Palestinians.

Goes to show how out of touch you truly are.

And I know about the Sinai, but that's just not the same.

Bull it isn't the same. It is very much the same.

I follow the news very closely. And unlike you I also understand them.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! Thanks UB, I needed the laugh.

The main reason was Fatah's inability to shake off Israeli occupation.

Now prove it.

You are a retard. I told you many times that the 2000 proposal was a annexation of Gaza and the West Bank. They offered no land at all to Palestinians. And I know about the Sinai, but that's just not the same.

So perhaps offering 95% of the west bank and all of Gaza and East Jerusalem means something else in your language. Would you care to demonstrate exactly why Camp David was an annexation as opposed to giving land?

History and logic he does not understand. He is so far behind the times, its not even funny. Look at his responses to me. He called me a liar when I told him about the Land for Peace agreements they signed and want to do. He thinks Israel is just out to take land from the arabs which is not even close to being at all accurate.So you say, Israel doesn't even exist? There would be no Israel without taking land from Arabs.

So you say, Israel doesn't even exist? There would be no Israel without taking land from Arabs.

You back to that mantra again? Haven't you been hammered enough times on it already?

You back to that mantra again? Haven't you been hammered enough times on it already?Reality is no mantra.

So perhaps offering 95% of the west bank and all of Gaza and East Jerusalem means something else in your language. Would you care to demonstrate exactly why Camp David was an annexation as opposed to giving land?The "offer" included partial autonomy over Gaza and parts of the West Bank, but also would have placed Gaza and the West Bank officially under Israeli political and military control.

Reality is no mantra.

Your right but you don't live in reality as we have already proven time and again in this thread.

Your right but you don't live in reality as we have already proven time and again in this thread.You have only repeated your western politically correct position that creating Israel was no assault on the Arabs. But it was, and it continues to be just that. That will never change as long as this implanted state exists. Even the British prime minister has acknowledged that giving in to the Zionists was a terrible mistake, and one day you will also recognise that eventually.

You have only repeated your western politically correct position that creating Israel was no assault on the Arabs.

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! Oh brother. First time I have ever been accused of being Politically Correct. Listen UB, I'm a blunt person and will say what I want to say. However, no where did I say that creating Israel was not an assault on the Arabs. I want you to search through here and point out where I said that. Go on. I have till the 26th for you to find it.

But it was, and it continues to be just that. That will never change as long as this implanted state exists.

And you can take your talking points elsewhere. We really are tired of hearing them as they have been proven false so many times.

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! Oh brother. First time I have ever been accused of being Politically Correct. Listen UB, I'm a blunt person and will say what I want to say. However, no where did I say that creating Israel was not an assault on the Arabs. I want you to search through here and point out where I said that. Go on. I have till the 26th for you to find it.
And you can take your talking points elsewhere. We really are tired of hearing them as they have been proven false so many times.You are for Israel, and that's identical to being against Arabs. Either you support the Jewish state that was implanted into Arabian land by the UN (by voting down the Arab states), or you support the integrity and sovereignty of the Arab nation in all its states. There is no middle way. You know exactly that there would be a Panarabic state now if the colonial powers hadn't sliced up the region into spheres of their interest that latter became the petty states that are now there. Letting the European Jews into Palestine was measure to keep a foothold in the region and of course to export the Jewish "problem" from Europe to the Middle East.

You are for Israel, and that's identical to being against Arabs.

Only in your mind my young padawan learner. Being for Israel does not make one against Arabs. Only a fool would try to correlate the two.

Either you support the Jewish state that was implanted into Arabian land by the UN (by voting down the Arab states), or you support the integrity and sovereignty of the Arab nation in all its states. There is no middle way.

:rolleyes: Either you support my view or be labeled an anti-semite uh? Is that your tactic of debating? I see that it is.

You know exactly that there would be a Panarabic state now if the colonial powers hadn't sliced up the region into spheres of their interest that latter became the petty states that are now there.

We know this for a fact? You have any proof of such? I would surely love to see it.

Only in your mind my young padawan learner. Being for Israel does not make one against Arabs. Only a fool would try to correlate the two.



:rolleyes: Either you support my view or be labeled an anti-semite uh? Is that your tactic of debating? I see that it is.Padawan? Yeah, I know what your mindset is. And I suppose I'm twice your age and you are certainly no master of any knowledge as you only look at things very superficially.

We know this for a fact? You have any proof of such? I would surely love to see it.What do you think the Arabs were fighting for when they tried to shake off Turkish rule? Read up on history, youngling.

Okay.... Who drug this dead old flogged Elephorse into the middle of the bloody room again. Fess up and die. Now.

Padawan?

Never heard that term before?

Yeah, I know what your mindset is.

No you don't.

And I suppose I'm twice your age and you are certainly no master of any knowledge as you only look at things very superficially.

HAHAHAHA!!! Ok smartass. Now that you said that, I want you to state your age and when you do, I'll post mine. I do not look at things superficially at all. I am actually looking at all the facts for this conflict which is not easy as there is a ton of biased information out there.

What do you think the Arabs were fighting for when they tried to shake off Turkish rule? Read up on history, youngling.

I'm sorry....I do not supposed being conquered by the Turks had nothing to do with them fighting the turks eh?

You know exactly that there would be a Panarabic state now if the colonial powers hadn't sliced up the region into spheres of their interest that latter became the petty states that are now there.

Funny, the Arab states that are there have been bickering rather alot for me to believe that. Also, if there is this wonderful Pan-Arab solidarity, why havent we seen the Arab states take in the Palestian refugees.

Funny, the Arab states that are there have been bickering rather alot for me to believe that. Also, if there is this wonderful Pan-Arab solidarity, why havent we seen the Arab states take in the Palestian refugees.

Then who would they use in their holy struggle against Israel? :D

Then who would they use in their holy struggle against Israel? :D

Your suggesting they only keep the Palestinans out to have a reason to hate the Jews other than the fact that they are Jews! No, no, could it really be

*insert aproporitate tone of voice*

Your suggesting they only keep the Palestinans out to have a reason to hate the Jews other than the fact that they are Jews! No, no, could it really be

*insert aproporitate tone of voice*

LOL! Gotta love sense of humors.

The Camp David accords would have given a Palestinan state 95% of the West Bank, all of Gaza and East Jerusalem.


Not all of Arab East Jerusalem.



So much so that they support Hammases genocide plans


Source for the Hamas Genocide claim?

Not all of Arab East Jerusalem.

No, but thats why its called a negotiation. You dont get all of what you want


Source for the Hamas Genocide claim.

Its founding charter calls for the destruction of Israel, and it does this by targeting civilians. Genocide can be infered.

1: Do you believe that its ok that muslims burn bibles and kill those that want to convert avay from Islam


this is a grey area. I don't think its black or white, or a simple yes or no.

2: What would you think if christian countries started mass burnings of Quran and killing people who convert to Islam
I think thats wrong

3: Do you belive that all Muslims should go back to middle east and Westerners go away and leave them alone?
To a certain degree, yes I do. The only person a Muslim can truly trust is a another Muslim. But it should be noted Most Muslims are not Arab nor middle eastern. Islam is not an Arab religion, it is a religion for everyone.

This statement shows how little you know of just how much money Israel had sent to the Palestinian Authority to help them. Goes to show that you are indeed a bigot.

I honestly don't care what you think of me, if you think I'm a bigot fine. The only opinion of me that matters to me is that of Allah.

this is a grey area. I don't think its black or white, or a simple yes or no.

Your islamic friends do not think it is a grey area. They do this sort of thing constantly. And yes, it is a simple yes or no question.

I think thats wrong

Then if you think that is wrong then does it stand to reason that burning bibles and killing those who convert from Islam to another religion is wrong?

I honestly don't care what you think of me, if you think I'm a bigot fine. The only opinion of me that matters to me is that of Allah.

Then hopefully Allah has sense to kick you out of heaven because you sure as hell do not belong there with the attitudes that you carry around.

Allegheny County, you (and UB) are the only ones keeping this thread alive. Let it die. Please. This thread makes baby Jesus cry.

Allegheny County, you (and UB) are the only ones keeping this thread alive. Let it die. Please. This thread makes baby Jesus cry.

Oh its fun poking holes in UBs statements. Besides, Sovietstan is also keeping the thread alive as are others.

Then hopefully Allah has sense to kick you out of heaven because you sure as hell do not belong there with the attitudes that you carry around.

I live my life everyday to worship and praise Allah. I follow the Qur'an and the law's of Allah. I doubt I will be denied paradise.

Allegheny County, you (and UB) are the only ones keeping this thread alive. Let it die. Please. This thread makes baby Jesus cry.

you make baby Jesus cry.

I live my life everyday to worship and praise Allah. I follow the Qur'an and the law's of Allah. I doubt I will be denied paradise.

Supporting the deaths of Innocent Men, Women, and Children goes against what Allah wants. That is what you are doing. You are supporting terrorists because they are going after civilians that have done absolutely nothing to Muslims. Why do you support the killing of innocent people that the Quran says are believers?

you make baby Jesus cry.
OooooOOOOOOoooo!

Your mother.

Your islamic friends do not think it is a grey area. They do this sort of thing constantly. And yes, it is a simple yes or no question.


If asking if I think its ok to burn bibles, yes I do. I think it is meaningless book, sorry buts thats just how I feel. If your asking if it is justified to kill those to turn their back on Allah and Islam, I'm not sure. It would depend on the situation.

Then if you think that is wrong then does it stand to reason that burning bibles and killing those who convert from Islam to another religion is wrong?

Not necessarily

Your mother.
.....makes baby Jesus cry.

Yeah I said it, what ya gonna do?

.....makes baby Jesus cry.

Yeah I said it, what ya gonna do?
Considering in my quote I was referring to your mother... :p

Anyway, never mind.

If asking if I think its ok to burn bibles, yes I do. I think it is meaningless book, sorry buts thats just how I feel. If your asking if it is justified to kill those to turn their back on Allah and Islam, I'm not sure. It would depend on the situation.



Not necessarily

In that case, I should burn all of my Qurans for I think it is a meaningless book.

As to not being sure if its ok to kill someone or not for converting to Islam, it is not a hard question to answer. It does not depend on the situation at all. If one gets killed for converting to another religion, it shows the lack of tolerance that Muslims are perceived to have. It is never ever ok to kill someone because they convert to another religion and I am quite shocked that you said that it depends on the situation. You truly are a fanatic.

In that case, I should burn all of my Qurans for I think it is a meaningless book.

As to not being sure if its ok to kill someone or not for converting to Islam, it is not a hard question to answer. It does not depend on the situation at all. If one gets killed for converting to another religion, it shows the lack of tolerance that Muslims are perceived to have. It is never ever ok to kill someone because they convert to another religion and I am quite shocked that you said that it depends on the situation. You truly are a fanatic.

I'm far from a fanatic. I have never advocated killing infidels or supporting the terrorism al-Qeada supports. I will however defend Islam and Muslims to my last breath. This doesn't make me a fanatic, simply very devout in my faith.

I'm far from a fanatic. I have never advocated killing infidels or supporting the terrorism al-Qeada supports. I will however defend Islam and Muslims to my last breath. This doesn't make me a fanatic, simply very devout in my faith.

You just want to see Israel gone just like Hamas does.

Supporting the deaths of Innocent Men, Women, and Children goes against what Allah wants. That is what you are doing. You are supporting terrorists because they are going after civilians that have done absolutely nothing to Muslims. Why do you support the killing of innocent people that the Quran says are believers?

Muslims have the right to defend their land and their people. What I support is the God given right of resistance. I would rather have the occupation end and peace than attacks on Israeli women and children.

Muslims have the right to defend their land and their people. What I support is the God given right of resistance. I would rather have the occupation end and peace than attacks on Israeli women and children.

Then you condemn the attacks on innocent jewish civilians by groups like Hamas?

You just want to see Israel gone just like Hamas does.

I wouldn't mind if Israel was completely gone, true. However unlike Hamas, in the event that a Palestinian state comes to be and the occupation ends, I would no longer feel attacks on Israel would be warranted.

I wouldn't mind if Israel was completely gone, true. However unlike Hamas, in the event that a Palestinian state comes to be and the occupation ends, I would no longer feel attacks on Israel would be warranted.

So would you support a two state solution?

So would you support a two state solution?

depends on the borders, the right of return, and Jerusalem. If those things are favourable for Palestinians, than yes, in theory I would support it. Thats not to say I wouldn't prefer all of Palestine returned to the Palestinians.

depends on the borders, the right of return, and Jerusalem. If those things are favourable for Palestinians, than yes, in theory I would support it. Thats not to say I wouldn't prefer all of Palestine returned to the Palestinians.

Call it the 1967 borders before the Yom Kipur war. Would you accept that? You also have not stated wether you condemn the killings of innocent men,women and children.

I live my life everyday to worship and praise Allah. I follow the Qur'an and the law's of Allah. I doubt I will be denied paradise.

Considering you advocate the murder of homosexuals, I don't think you're really fit for any sort of paradise...

Considering you advocate the murder of homosexuals, I don't think you're really fit for any sort of paradise...

On top of that, he thinks its ok to burn bibles and might support the killing of muslims who convert to islam though that depends on the situation according to him.

But that's not oppression, that's good Islamic morality. Just ask Soviestan. I'm sure he'll agree.

Yes he'll agree; he's staunchly anti-Semitic, judging from most of his posts. Next thing you know he'll be justifying the Holocaust or insisting it never happened.

Due to the two choices, my vote goes to the Nazis. They were far far worse than Israel.

Agreed. Plus nobody went around killing Nazis the way Nazis went around killing Jews. Furthermore, the Nazis didn't wander from country to country, all the while getting killed, violated, and persecuted wherever they went, but this DID happen to the Jews for 1,878 years.

But, evidently, Soviestan doesn't care about THAT one way or another, or if he does, he's GLAD it happened. As long as Jews get killed, he's happy.

Since most armies often have at least a few bad eggs in their ranks.Think of the Americans in Abu Ghraib in Iraq.Torture and the like.I'm sure a few Nazi soliders raped a few people.If they were capable of genocide,I don't know what they think is unacceptable moral-wise.

What Nazis thought was unacceptable moral-wise was to help or support the Jews, and evidently Soviestan agrees with them.

Islam is only very loosely based on Abrahamic scriptures, and is based much more on the teachings of Muhammad.

Which is why I am not a Muslim; I subscribe to the Scriptures.

True. However, these particular things are also encouraged in the Torah and are as such more Abrahamic than Islamic.
As people already pointed out however, most Christians and Jews have left those things behind them.

Those things were encouraged in the OLD Testament because the Jews were setting up a military theocracy in the land of Palestine.

However, the NEW Testament teaches Christians no such thing as genocide or overthrowing governments. In fact,
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." Romans 13:1

No you are completely wrong. 90% of the civilian deaths caused by the Isralies were because of neglagence, they do not want to rid the world of a particularly race, religion etc... They are just attacking because they don't want the rest of Asia pointing missiles at them with only a meaningless boarder seperating them. Hardly the same for germany, who WANTED to rid their country (and others) of Jews, Homosexuals, Disabled etc....

Oh and the death toll for Germany was way way way way way higher.

I wish that could be made to sink into Soviestan's thick, Jew-hating skull.

1-no your wrong. israel mostly kills innocents.

2-the nazis were more systematic, hence i said they were better at it.

Israel mostly kills innocents? Says who?

That's just anti-Semitism.

I believe YOU are wrong.

lol, a very poor attempt to attack Israel.

if people were to put as much attention into curing cancer as they do to try to make israel look evil, cancer would be on the same line as smallpox.

That's a very good comment; I never thought of it that way, but you're exactly right.

Without a doubt innocent people died in the intefedah..... but let me give you a little secret.... it wasn't on purpose.... shocking, isn't it?

But if we're going to that direction, the people that lost their life in suicide bombing are or aren't innocent, cause I lost you on that.

Now, I want to add another thing, why people just tend to compare the nazis and israel.... it looks like a personal crusade.... I think that should admit, they met a rude israeli and decided to take it out on all israelis.... tsk tsk tsk

True; but if they did the same thing to Muslims (took it out on all Muslims because of a misdeed by ONE Muslim) the whole world would rush to the Muslims' defense. It is a RELIGIOUS crusade. The world news media will not allow all Muslims to be blamed for the wrongs of a few, but if ONE JEW defends himself of herself from an attacking Palestinian, suddenly ALL Jews are evil as far as the media are concerned.

No, but thats why its called a negotiation. You dont get all of what you want.

Then stop saying that they were offered it, please.



Its founding charter calls for the destruction of Israel, and it does this by targeting civilians. Genocide can be infered.

Well there seems to be a lot of dead Arab civillians, and the Israelis building houses on stolen land, yet what kind of reaction does accusations of Israeli genocide get? Sauce for the goose.....

Well there seems to be a lot of dead Arab civillians, and the Israelis building houses on stolen land, yet what kind of reaction does accusations of Israeli genocide get? Sauce for the goose.....

Still waiting for proof on Israeli Genocide.

Still waiting for proof on Israeli Genocide.

Did you bother to read what I was responding to, or are you just being a bit obtuse today?

" Originally Posted by Gorias View Post
1-no your wrong. israel mostly kills innocents."

Israel mostly kills innocents? Says who?

That's just anti-Semitism.

It is precisely this kind of argumentation which allows Israel to continue their aggression against the Palestinian people. Condemning Israeli's military action does not make you an anti-Semite. This is simply a fallacy.

It is precisely this kind of argumentation which allows Israel to continue their aggression against the Palestinian people. Condemning Israeli's military action does not make you an anti-Semite. This is simply a fallacy.

Condemning the military is one thing. Saying that its ok to blow up civilians on purpose with suicide bombs is not ok.

Why is this thread still here?

Then stop saying that they were offered it, please.

Fine, they were offerd parts of East Jeruslaem


Well there seems to be a lot of dead Arab civillians, and the Israelis building houses on stolen land, yet what kind of reaction does accusations of Israeli genocide get? Sauce for the goose.....

Genocide refers to the intended elimination of an entire race. Statements like "Drive the Jews into the sea" seem to be indicative of that intent.

Guess what? Lots of Isralie civilians are dead too. But think of it like this. The reason the Arab civilians are dead is they are either overtly acting as human shields for the terrorists (see the crowd of women recently) or the terrorists are hiding amoung them. The reason for the Isralie civilian dead is that is who the Palestian terrorists are targeting. There is no excuse for intentional killing of civilians.

The land was not stolen, we've been through this. The land was given to the Jews by the UN, the Arabs disagreed and attacked, Israel retaliated and won and thus they occupied more land as they won and so on and so on.

Then stop saying that they were offered it, please.

Fine, they were offerd parts of East Jeruslaem


Well there seems to be a lot of dead Arab civillians, and the Israelis building houses on stolen land, yet what kind of reaction does accusations of Israeli genocide get? Sauce for the goose.....

Genocide refers to the intended elimination of an entire race. Statements like "Drive the Jews into the sea" seem to be indicative of that intent.

Guess what? Lots of Isralie civilians are dead too. But think of it like this. The reason the Arab civilians are dead is they are either overtly acting as human shields for the terrorists (see the crowd of women recently) or the terrorists are hiding amoung them. The reason for the Isralie civilian dead is that is who the Palestian terrorists are targeting. There is no excuse for intentional killing of civilians.

The land was not stolen, we've been through this. The land was given to the Jews by the UN, the Arabs disagreed and attacked, Israel retaliated and won and thus they occupied more land as they won and so on and so on.

Both regimes carried out an occupation they deemed as just, but the international community did not. Both setup ghettos, roadblocks and curfews for the occupied, those who break curfew get shot in the street with tanks. Both were racist regimes who operate(d) with a sense of superiority. Both committed mass killings and slaughters including of women and children. Both used the holocaust as justification or propaganda for their actions. Both are hated by the international community and invaded their neighbours. And both are feircely militaristic.

Its a very close race but the Nazis haven't been around for 60 years and only lasted around 20. The regime of Israel is still around and has been for 60 years. Its close, but I say Israel takes this one. your thoughts?

Well lets see here the Nazis invaded countries that were at peace with them, while Isreal simply hmm dfended themselves wow this is a pretty easy one. Seem your not very brite if you can't figure it out very fast.

I read some quote "Israel kills mainly innocents" and then I see someone reply "you're anti-Semite".

If someone would say "I wish to kill the Jews" or "it is good to murder as many Jewish children" or "Jews are less human than me" then yes that person would be both an idiot and an anti-Semite.

But just because someone is critical on Israeli aggression does not make them anti-Semite. It doesn't even make them anti-Zionist.

From the quoted phrase "Israel kills mainly innocents" it is against logic to call it an anti-Zionist or an anti-Semite reply. It may be a wrong reply in case you have plenty of sources that most of the people killed by the IDF are not innocents.

Well lets see here the Nazis invaded countries that were at peace with them, while Isreal simply hmm dfended themselves wow this is a pretty easy one. Seem your not very brite if you can't figure it out very fast.

you can't even spell bright correctly. You're in no position to say who is more intelligent than whom.

Fine, they were offerd parts of East Jeruslaem.

Thanks. Blood usually comes from stones easier, but thanks never the less.


Guess what? Lots of Isralie civilians are dead too. But think of it like this. The reason the Arab civilians are dead is they are either overtly acting as human shields for the terrorists (see the crowd of women recently) or the terrorists are hiding amoung them. The reason for the Isralie civilian dead is that is who the Palestian terrorists are targeting. There is no excuse for intentional killing of civilians. .

Thats the "official" line. However theres been more than enough cases where it looks more like its "sending a message" killings, to the Palestinians, NGO's or whomever. And some are just reprisals, pure and simple. And when it comes to human shields, it was official IDF policy to use palestinians as Human shields for a few decades, was it not?



The land was not stolen, we've been through this. The land was given to the Jews by the UN, the Arabs disagreed and attacked, Israel retaliated and won and thus they occupied more land as they won and so on and so on.

We don't even have to go back to the whole 7% thing......

"More than a third of the Jewish settlements in the West Bank are built on privately owned Palestinian land, an Israeli campaign group has reported.
Peace Now says nearly 40% of the land the settlements sit on is, according to official data, "effectively stolen" from Palestinian landowners. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6168752.stm

you can't even spell bright correctly. You're in no position to say who is more intelligent than whom.

Um maybe English is not his first language? And spelling things incorrectly does not mean he is not intelligent. :rolleyes:

The only person a Muslim can truly trust is a another Muslim.

You know I was reading through this thread back to where I tried to kill it and I saw what Soviestan said here. Then I thought of the Sunni/Shiite conflict in Iraq and spent five minutes laughing my head off.

Not to start an argument here Nodinia, but noone as far as I know is disputing the West Bank settlements. We're all in agreement that they have to pretty much go. As was said earlier in the Camp David discussions Israel offered 95% of the west bank and all of Gaza as a FIRST OFFER, had Arafat gone back to the table and negotiated properly he could probably have gotten an even better agreement, but we'll never know.

Let's see...

A political group that not only massacred millions of people outright, conquered most of Europe, and helped to start the most destructive war in history which ended the lives of over fifty million people, over half of them noncombatants.

...or...

A nation that has been fighting for its survival since its birth against both terrorist groups and sovereign nations.

Yes, Israel has killed civilians.

Get the fuck over it.

I am set to see 40 posts per page. That means this thread is 146 20-post pages long:eek: Making this thread worse than either Nazis or Israel.

On second thought, at least we haven't seen a bunch of nearly identical threads on the subject, so it can't be all bad.

You know I was reading through this thread back to where I tried to kill it and I saw what Soviestan said here. Then I thought of the Sunni/Shiite conflict in Iraq and spent five minutes laughing my head off.


Sadly many Sunnis believe Shi'ias aren't true Muslims and vice versa though. So my point still stands.

Sadly many Sunnis believe Shi'ias aren't true Muslims and vice versa though. So my point still stands.

Which are you, just out of curiosity?

Sadly many Sunnis believe Shi'ias aren't true Muslims and vice versa though. So my point still stands.

Are you sunni or shi'a Soviestan?

Are you sunni or shi'a Soviestan?

I try not to look at the differences so much, because to me if you believe in the one and only God and believe he sent Mohammed(pbuh) to be his last prophet, than your Muslim. However my beliefs lean strongly Sunni. I still consider Shi'ias to be my brothers and sisters in Islam though. I find it sad that many feel people from the other sect aren't true Muslims. I think this goes against the Qur'an.

I try not to look at the differences so much, because to me if you believe in the one and only God and believe he sent Mohammed(pbuh) to be his last prophet, than your Muslim. However my beliefs lean strongly Sunni. I still consider Shi'ias to be my brothers and sisters in Islam though. I find it sad that many feel people from the other sect aren't true Muslims. I think this goes against the Qur'an.

I wish Sunnis and Shi'ias could reconcile their differences.

Not to start an argument here Nodinia, but noone as far as I know is disputing the West Bank settlements. We're all in agreement that they have to pretty much go. As was said earlier in the Camp David discussions Israel offered 95% of the west bank and all of Gaza as a FIRST OFFER, had Arafat gone back to the table and negotiated properly he could probably have gotten an even better agreement, but we'll never know.


True. Amazing how some people can just call it like it is, without having to have the facts pounded out of them.....

You know I was reading through this thread back to where I tried to kill it and I saw what Soviestan said here. Then I thought of the Sunni/Shiite conflict in Iraq and spent five minutes laughing my head off.

Not to start an argument here Nodinia, but noone as far as I know is disputing the West Bank settlements. We're all in agreement that they have to pretty much go. As was said earlier in the Camp David discussions Israel offered 95% of the west bank and all of Gaza as a FIRST OFFER, had Arafat gone back to the table and negotiated properly he could probably have gotten an even better agreement, but we'll never know.That's just not true. They were "offered" partial autonomy under Israeli sovereignty.

The Nazis were wose. They murdered 6 million Jews and 5 million others. Even the most fascist Zionists generally want to forcibly deport the Palestinians, not exterminate them all. Israel has massacred thousands of civilians, but not is as cold-blooded and calculated a way as the Nazis. Nazi Germany also had global superpower abitions, wheras Israel seems content to be a regional superpower and US client state.

Both societies were heavily militarised, although Israel is democratic inside the Green Line (as far as Jews are concerned)--obviously the military occupation of the West Bank and blockade and intermittent occupation of Gaza is--in effect--an Israeli military dictatorship over those regions Palestinian Arabs who do not get to vote in Israeli elections (nor would many wish to).

Both occupations do involve extrajudicial killings and torture of course.

I am set to see 40 posts per page. That means this thread is 146 20-post pages long:eek: Making this thread worse than either Nazis or Israel.

On second thought, at least we haven't seen a bunch of nearly identical threads on the subject, so it can't be all bad.

I think this thread has clearly entered the "let's-see-the-odometer-tick-over-to-an-absurd-number" mode.

Post 3000, anyone?

Sadly many Sunnis believe Shi'ias aren't true Muslims and vice versa though. So my point still stands.

And what precisely is a true muslim?

I try not to look at the differences so much, because to me if you believe in the one and only God and believe he sent Mohammed(pbuh) to be his last prophet, than your Muslim. However my beliefs lean strongly Sunni. I still consider Shi'ias to be my brothers and sisters in Islam though. I find it sad that many feel people from the other sect aren't true Muslims. I think this goes against the Qur'an.

Because they believe that Mohammed's family is the true successor to head the Muslim faith? Jeez, if you think that shia's are not true muslims, you are no better than Osama Bin Laden and all the other extremists who feel the same as you do about eachother.

Then again, you are an extremist so I guess that comes as no surprise.

That's just not true. They were "offered" partial autonomy under Israeli sovereignty.

Prove that negotiations would not provide a better arrangement with the PA?

I try not to look at the differences so much, because to me if you believe in the one and only God and believe he sent Mohammed(pbuh) to be his last prophet, than your Muslim. However my beliefs lean strongly Sunni. I still consider Shi'ias to be my brothers and sisters in Islam though. I find it sad that many feel people from the other sect aren't true Muslims. I think this goes against the Qur'an.

Ah. Sunni and Shi'a are just the major ones, right? Aren't there a few other smaller groups?

That's just not true. They were "offered" partial autonomy under Israeli sovereignty.

Firstly, prove that

And secondly, is that somehow worse than what we have now? Hundruds of young and old, men and women dying.

The ability of the Palestians to self rule would be improved and there would be peace. Isnt that preferable to what we have now instead

Israel have shown no desire to continue the war, and only do it to survive. They just want peace. The Palestian terrorists it seems value the destruction of Israel higher than peace

Ah. Sunni and Shi'a are just the major ones, right? Aren't there a few other smaller groups?

Yes there are but apparently Sunnis and Shia's are the only one's killing eachother.

Firstly, prove that

And secondly, is that somehow worse than what we have now? Hundruds of young and old, men and women dying.

The ability of the Palestians to self rule would be improved and there would be peace. Isnt that preferable to what we have now instead

Israel have shown no desire to continue the war, and only do it to survive. They just want peace. The Palestian terrorists it seems value the destruction of Israel higher than peace

You know full well he is either A) going to ignore this or B) state his usual rhetoric. My bet is on B.

Get the fuck over it.Never. And you are only saying this because it's not your family.

It is precisely this kind of argumentation which allows Israel to continue their aggression against the Palestinian people. Condemning Israeli's military action does not make you an anti-Semite. This is simply a fallacy.

I think his suggestion was that the source of the statistic was anti-semetic, not that the statistic itself is. And the reason more Palestians have died is that the Israelie hospitals are more advanced, having had a lot of practice. Of course, the services of these hospitials have been offered to the PA but they declined. Something quite sick there. They put national pride over the lives of their own people

Never. And you are only saying this because it's not your family.

So its that is it? Revenge? Crude, cavemanesque, pathetic revenge. Arab civilians, Isralie civilians. They both die. Peace is now prefrable.

You know, Isralie civilians have died too, and the big diffrence being that they were the targets of the Palestian attacks.

Would you not agree that it is an abhorent way to conduct war to intentonally target people who are not soldiers, and who are unarmed and not trying to kill you.

Israel have shown no desire to continue the war, and only do it to survive. They just want peace.



Then why are they building settlements and trying to annex Arab East Jerusalem?

So its that is it? Revenge? Crude, cavemanesque, pathetic revenge. Arab civilians, Isralie civilians. They both die. Peace is now prefrable.

You know, Isralie civilians have died too, and the big diffrence being that they were the targets of the Palestian attacks.

Would you not agree that it is an abhorent way to conduct war to intentonally target people who are not soldiers, and who are unarmed and not trying to kill you.Tell that to the Israelis. They are the attackers. They never wanted peace. If they had wanted peace they would have stayed in Europe instead of fulfilling their greed for land on Palestinian Arabs' expense.

. And the reason more Palestians have died is that the Israelie hospitals are more advanced, having had a lot of practice. Of course, the services of these hospitials have been offered to the PA but they declined. Something quite sick there. They put national pride over the lives of their own people

Could I have some source or link for this hospitals claim please?

I think this thread has clearly entered the "let's-see-the-odometer-tick-over-to-an-absurd-number" mode.

Post 3000, anyone?

if this thread makes 3,000 I will cry.

Tell that to the Israelis. They are the attackers. They never wanted peace. If they had wanted peace they would have stayed in Europe instead of fulfilling their greed for land on Palestinian Arabs' expense.

And I was right. B answer it is.

Tell that to the Israelis. They are the attackers. They never wanted peace. If they had wanted peace they would have stayed in Europe instead of fulfilling their greed for land on Palestinian Arabs' expense.

Funny, for fifty years before 1948, they managed to live in peace with the Arabs. I dont think they were looking for a fight. They were just looking for a home of their own.

We've already established why they couldnt stay in Europe. They could no longer be guests there, they were not safe

We've also established why it was their anchient homeland they went to. You're just spouting the same stuff over and over again. We've already demolished your arguments regarding this. The fact is Israel wants peace because its offered it so often. Also they havent started any of the wars involving them

Could I have some source or link for this hospitals claim please?

Its in "The case for peace" I read it. Regretably I dont have the copy to hand atm.

Nodonia's form of debate and opinion making I can accept cause it's valid in the way she's pointing out certain point of views.
And for that I shall reply that Israeli hospitals did take care of Palestinians when they were hospitalized, hell, when I was 15 I was hospitalized next to a kid from Nablús.

United Beleriand's on the other hand is nothing but hate, and frustration.
But of course, according to his reality, everything I say and do is nothing but propaganda, and evil and cruel things to Palestinian babies.

Nodonia's form of debate and opinion making I can accept cause it's valid in the way she's pointing out certain point of views.
And for that I shall reply that Israeli hospitals did take care of Palestinians when they were hospitalized, hell, when I was 15 I was hospitalized next to a kid from Nablús.

United Beleriand's on the other hand is nothing but hate, and frustration.
But of course, according to his reality, everything I say and do is nothing but propaganda, and evil and cruel things to Palestinian babies.

The solution to this conflict requires moderates, not extremists, these people chose only to see in black & white, instead of the varying shades of gray.

The solution to this conflict requires moderates, not extremists, these people chose only to see in black & white, instead of the varying shades of gray.

Actually, I see nodonia's rather moderate, it's true that the israeli army did mistakes, of course people tend to forget that it's not the original intentions of the many of harming people (as I mentioned in the past more than one time, it's not in the interest of the majority to do so), it's true that there are cases in which grave mistakes occur.
I, Like many of the people I know, wish for nothing but peace, some want it due to better financial opportunities, some want it so their children won't see war, some want it just cause war is stupid...

The solution to this conflict requires moderates, not extremists, these people chose only to see in black & white, instead of the varying shades of gray.There are no shades of grey for those Palestinians who have died or were displaced because of the Jewish desire for land.
Folks like you keep pretending that Jews and Palestinians were equal from the start. You choose to ignore that Jews came from outside with the set aim to obtain land no matter what. Land that was already inhabited. And they were backed by the West against the Arabs. As long as this initial injustice remains and Palestinians have to surrender their former homes and lives because of Jewish greed, peace will only be the forced peace of the victorious invaders.

Its in "The case for peace" I read it. Regretably I dont have the copy to hand atm.


I ask because a search "PA refuse israeli hospitals" doesnt bring it up, either in "Google" or "Alta Vista". I would have thought that a seemingly useful thing to beat the PA over the head with would come to hand more quickly.

There are no shades of grey for those Palestinians who have died or were displaced because of the Jewish desire for land.

Thank you for proving my point, kthxbye.

:rolleyes:

The solution to this conflict requires moderates, not extremists, these people chose only to see in black & white, instead of the varying shades of gray.

I agree with Pyotr.

There are no shades of grey for those Palestinians who have died or were displaced because of the Jewish desire for land.

And what of those who were displaced by the Arabs? I mean, Jordan expelled the PA in the 70s I think because of an assassination attempt on their king. What about those that the Arabs expelled in 1948?

Folks like you keep pretending that Jews and Palestinians were equal from the start.

That's because they are!

You choose to ignore that Jews came from outside with the set aim to obtain land no matter what.

Go back and read history. What they wanted was to buy the land to establish their homeland.

And they were backed by the West against the Arabs.

Well when the Arabs violated a UN Resolution and attacked Israel without provocation.....

As long as this initial injustice remains, and Palestinians have to surrender their former homes and lives because of Jewish greed, peace will only be the forced peace of the victorious invaders.

*dies of laughter*

And just who invaded what first? That is up for debate.

stfu. You don't know what it means to lose your home and livelihood because of foreigners. You try to argument with legal terms and UN resolutions, as if those had anything to do with actual people. You are just a spoiled american kid with the typical western imperialist arrogance towards Arabs.

stfu. You don't know what it means to lose your home and livelihood because of foreigners. You try to argument with legal terms and UN resolutions, as if those had anything to do with actual people.

So what about the Arabs that the Arabs expelled from their homes in 1948? Do you condemn that? What about Israel's offer of return at the end of 1948?

*Takes a quick look at the thread, and realizes it verifies my original claim this entire time.*

"The only common grounds that the Israelis and Palestinians truly have in this conflict are graveyards."

*Takes a quick look at the thread, and realizes it verifies my original claim this entire time.*

"The only common grounds that the Israelis and Palestinians truly have in this conflict are graveyards."It wouldn't be thus if the Jews had remained in Europe.

stfu. You don't know what it means to lose your home and livelihood because of foreigners. You try to argument with legal terms and UN resolutions, as if those had anything to do with actual people. You are just a spoiled american kid with the typical western imperialist arrogance towards Arabs.

You do realise that, had the Arabs accepted the original UN partition, far fewer would have died and far fewer would have lost their livelihoods. If the Arabs want to look at who has caused their problems, they need only look at their own past. Peace would have been a far more prosperous path for them to have taken. Their state would have been much larger than Israel.

It wouldn't be thus if the Jews had remained in Europe.

Why don't you answer my questions before answering someone else's post?

What about the Arabs expulsion of Arabs so that they can attack Israel? What of Israel's offering of the right of return after the '48 war? What of Jordan's expulsion of the PA after a failed assassination attempt of their king?

It wouldn't be thus if the Jews had remained in Europe.

Or if the Arabs had accepted the original partition

A partion that gave everyone something, but not all of what they wanted, it gave both the Arabs and the Jews a state, but in neither case not as big as they had hoped. The Jews were happy, since they got something, but not all of what they wanted. They had compromised. The Arabs were unhappy because they didnt get all of what they wanted. They were unwilling to compromise.

It wouldn't be thus if the Jews had remained in Europe.

Question: How ould you apportion the blame, and to whom?

You do realise that, had the Arabs accepted the original UN partition, far fewer would have died and far fewer would have lost their livelihoods. If the Arabs want to look at who has caused their problems, they need only look at their own past. Peace would have been a far more prosperous path for them to have taken. Their state would have been much larger than Israel.Why should any Arab have accepted any plan that would remove him from his home, house, soil? What kind of reasoning is that? Would you give up your home because some incurious committee in far distant New York decided thus over your head? You somehow seem to assume that Arabs had an obligation to share their land. But they did not and do not.

Why should any Arab have accepted any plan that would remove him from his home, house, soil? What kind of reasoning is that? Would you give up your home because some incurious committee in far distant New York decided thus over your head?

*sighs*

You really are hopeless aren't you?

*sighs*

You really are hopeless aren't you?If you love the Jews so much, take them into your own home. But don't ask that of somebody else.

If you love the Jews so much, take them into your own home. But don't ask that of somebody else.

I want you to answer these questions for me. I'm just going to keep asking it till you do answer it.

What about the Arabs that expelled Arabs in the area so they can attack infant Israel? What about the Israeli offer of return after the 1948 war? What of the Jordan expulsion of Palestinians after the failed assassination attempt on thier king in the 70s?

If you love the Jews so much, take them into your own home. But don't ask that of somebody else.

Oh and on top of that, my room mate was Jewish and he is more polite than you are. Go figure.

Oh and on top of that, my room mate was Jewish and he is more polite than you are. Go figure.So if you had a Jewish roommate already you could surely take all the Jews who had immigrated to Palestine and their offspring into your home as well.

So if you had a Jewish roommate already you could surely take all the Jews who had immigrated to Palestine and their offspring into your home as well.

*snorts*

You are so bigoted it is not even funny. To decide that, you are going to have too look up every families, family tree for they all intermarry. I wish you luck.

Now answer my questions.

Nazis or Israel; Who's worse?
You, my dear sir, are a total idiot.

I realise I'm replying to something stated ages ago in forum time, but I just had to do it. Now carry on, carry on, nothing special here.

http://memepedia.info/images/c/c5/Stopposting.jpg

How the hell is this thread still alive?

If we had a Hall of Shame for NSG threads, this one would be moved to it.

I want you to answer these questions for me. I'm just going to keep asking it till you do answer it.

What about the Arabs that expelled Arabs in the area so they can attack infant Israel? What about the Israeli offer of return after the 1948 war? What of the Jordan expulsion of Palestinians after the failed assassination attempt on thier king in the 70s?

Is any of that the Palestinians fault? And for the second the point still remains that they were kicked off their land. If someone had just thrown you out of your house, but then later decided to be reasonable and offered that you could come back and share the house with you, you'd just happily accept and not fight back because doing so might mean in the future you'd be worse off? Stop being ridiculous

Is any of that the Palestinians fault?

All I'm hearing from his idiotic posts is how it is all Israel's fault that the Palestinians are in the mess that they are in. He keeps forgetting that the Arabs also expelled the Palestinians from their homes and did not let them inside their own nations. The Arab world is just as much at fault as Israel is but he is refusing to recognize that.

And for the second the point still remains that they were kicked off their land. If someone had just thrown you out of your house, but then later decided to be reasonable and offered that you could come back and share the house with you, you'd just happily accept and not fight back because doing so might mean in the future you'd be worse off? Stop being ridiculous

So the arabs are not also at fault for throwing them off their land?

What about Israel's offer of return at the end of 1948?

Sometimes I wish you'd just fuck off and read something other than somebody elses opinion before forming your own. Have you read the offer that was made?

Sometimes I wish you'd just fuck off...

Talking to someone like this does not bode well for responses, especially from me.

I guess I was mistaken that they offered citizenship if they did not attack Israel from within at the end of that war in 1948? Oh wait, they did.

Talking to someone like this does not bode well for responses, especially from me.

I guess I was mistaken that they offered citizenship if they did not attack Israel from within at the end of that war in 1948? Oh wait, they did.

I tire of ill digested facts and distortions passed off as truth. You asked


What about Israel's offer of return at the end of 1948?.

Have you read this offer, or not?

I have to say this with images to get through, I suspect:
http://www.casual-gamers.de/cg/images/postimages/sucks2.jpg

This thread does not deserve to live - but regardless, you guys aren't exactly on topic, are you now...

http://www.jarrett-net.com/images/offtopic.gif

Please let this one die - make a new one if you want to debate (endlessly, as you'll never resolve the question, ever!) who's to blame for the current situation in the occupied territories, and who's the worst fuckups of the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Please?
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9615/1166518423mq55vnegd27jxqt9.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1166518423mq55vnegd27jxqt9.jpg)

Talking to someone like this does not bode well for responses, especially from me.


Awwwwww.....What a shame that would be. considering that a great deal of the blame for this thread still being alive is down to you spouting ill digested shite at the other idiot. And yes, you're just as full of it as he is.

Awwwwww.....What a shame that would be. considering that a great deal of the blame for this thread still being alive is down to you spouting ill digested shite at the other idiot. And yes, you're just as full of it as he is.

Why don't you go suck on an orange.

Die Thread Die!!!!!!!!!!!

WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.

Declaration of Establisment of State of Israel (http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace%20Process/Guide%20to%20the%20Peace%20Process/Declaration%20of%20Establishment%20of%20State%20of%20Israel)

Now that we have established that they do indeed wanted arabs to return to their homes in Israel....

Declaration of Establisment of State of Israel (http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace%20Process/Guide%20to%20the%20Peace%20Process/Declaration%20of%20Establishment%20of%20State%20of%20Israel)

Now that we have established that they do indeed wanted arabs to return to their homes in Israel....

Thats not an offer for anybody to return - it quite specifically states Arabs within the state of Israel. Your question was


What about Israel's offer of return at the end of 1948?

Have you actually read such an offer, or have you only read of it?

http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=1820048

NOW can this thread die?

http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=1820048

NOW can this thread die?

Good its a start.

Good its a start.

Right,it's settled then.No more people are to post on this thread.If you do,it is punishable by death.Kapeesh?
Thread death starting now.

http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=1820048
NOW can this thread die?Not before they also dismantle all illegal Jewish settlements in the West Bank, dismantle the Wall, and let all Palestinians and their families return to their former homes and soil.
And it's not yet a start. There is not even a timetable yet.

Not before they also dismantle all illegal Jewish settlements in the West Bank, dismantle the Wall, and let all Palestinians and their families return to their former homes and soil.
And it's not yet a start. There is not even a timetable yet.

*kills*
Frankly I think we've done this done thread to death.Let's stop now,shall we?Us bitching about the Israelis or the Palestinians on an internet forum isn't going to prompt them into action.So lets stop now.

Not before they also dismantle all illegal Jewish settlements in the West Bank, dismantle the Wall, and let all Palestinians and their families return to their former homes and soil.
And it's not yet a start. There is not even a timetable yet.

Well when the Palestinian Government decides to negotiate, then maybe we can actually begin to accomplish something. This is however, a good start indeed. Luckily the President of the PA and the Prime Minister both want peaec. Unlike you who wants to see more bloodshed.

*kills*
Frankly I think we've done this done thread to death.Let's stop now,shall we?Us bitching about the Israelis or the Palestinians on an internet forum isn't going to prompt them into action.So lets stop now.

Oh come on. Let him continue to spout hate for Jews. Fankly, its becoming more comical by the hour.

At Saturday's meeting, the first between Israeli and Palestinian leaders in 18 months, Olmert offered to dismantle checkpoints and give Abbas tens of millions of pounds in frozen funds.

Looks like both dismantling the checkpoints and frozen funds. Well done Olmert :)

Oh come on. Let him continue to spout hate for Jews. Fankly, its becoming more comical by the hour.

No,it's just getting boring.

No,it's just getting boring.

And so far off topic that it ain't even amusing.

Full stop. End of thread.

Well when the Palestinian Government decides to negotiate, then maybe we can actually begin to accomplish something. This is however, a good start indeed. Luckily the President of the PA and the Prime Minister both want peaec. Unlike you who wants to see more bloodshed.There is no indication that the Prime Minister wants peace. If he did, he would revert Israel to the Green Line at once. There is no need to negotiate anything except the full pullout of Israel from the West Bank, and the return of all Palestinians and their families to their former homes and soil. They are still waiting in refugee camps just outside Palestine.

There is no indication that the Prime Minister wants peace.

This is getting old and you have nothing to back it up with no matter how many times its been asked of you to do so.

If he did, he would revert Israel to the Green Line at once.

Which was negotiated I might add with the Oslo accords, then the terrorists stirred things up and that ended that.

There is no need to negotiate anything except the full pullout of Israel from the West Bank,

Not happening till Hamas renounces violence and recognizes Israel.

and the return of all Palestinians and their families to their former homes and soil.

Meaning Israel? They had their chance to return there. They refused.

They are still waiting in refugee camps just outside Palestine.

Don't blame Israel for that. Blame the Arab governments who put them there.

This is getting old and you have nothing to back it up with no matter how many times its been asked of you to do so.
*snip*How could I back this up? So far Olmert has not done anything except invading Lebanon and aggravating the French.
And for the rest of your anti-Arab and anti-Semitic drivel: go play in traffic.

And so far off topic that it ain't even amusing.

Full stop. End of thread.

We tried and failed.

How could I back this up? So far Olmert has not done anything except invading Lebanon and aggravating the French.

So I guess the illegal cross border rocket attacks had nothing to do with Israel's invasion of Lebanon? And aggravating the French? That's not hard to do. Everyone loves doing that. :D

As to backing it up, when you make a claim, you must be prepared to back it up. I can wait a long time for a response to my questions though. Questions you have yet to answer.

1) What about the Arab nations that expelled their fellow people from their homes then told them not to go back when they lost?

2) What about the Palestinians ejected from Jordan after they failed to assassinate the Jordanian King?

And for the rest of your anti-Arab and anti-Semitic drivel: go play in traffic.

Nice comeback little one. I guess you do not have an answer for what I asked you.

Now why do you consider the rest of my post to be "anti-arab" (laughable) and "anti-semetic"(Even more laughable)?

I don't have to answer any of your stupid questions. Jews created the conflict in Palestine, not Arabs. The Arabs' failure to expel the land-hungry newcomers does not make the Jews' intrusion right in any way.

Both regimes carried out an occupation they deemed as just, but the international community did not. Both setup ghettos, roadblocks and curfews for the occupied, those who break curfew get shot in the street with tanks. Both were racist regimes who operate(d) with a sense of superiority. Both committed mass killings and slaughters including of women and children. Both used the holocaust as justification or propaganda for their actions. Both are hated by the international community and invaded their neighbours. And both are feircely militaristic.

Its a very close race but the Nazis haven't been around for 60 years and only lasted around 20. The regime of Israel is still around and has been for 60 years. Its close, but I say Israel takes this one. your thoughts?

Whatever your argument is...

Who gives a shit?

(I meant about the argument, not the problem. I know the war in Israel is very important.)

http://memepedia.info/images/c/c5/Stopposting.jpg

Whats your problem? You have all of 25 posts and most of those have been spent posting here telling everyone to stop posting. You even made a thread in moderation to close it. This thread is not breaking the rules and there's a lot of discussion going on. If you don't like it leave and stop posting in here.

Because they believe that Mohammed's family is the true successor to head the Muslim faith? Jeez, if you think that shia's are not true muslims, you are no better than Osama Bin Laden and all the other extremists who feel the same as you do about eachother.

Then again, you are an extremist so I guess that comes as no surprise.

Did you even read what I wrote? I said the exact opposite of what you think I said. I DO consider Shi'ias to be Muslims and I think fighting between sects to foolish and un-Islamic. Your so bent on branding me on extremist, you don't even pay attention to what I say. :headbang:

Ah. Sunni and Shi'a are just the major ones, right? Aren't there a few other smaller groups?

Yeah. There are even Qur'an-only Muslims who only follow the Qur'an and don't follow the Hadith. Ivocir I think is a Qur'an-only Muslim, though I have'nt seen him post here in a couple weeks.

Call it the 1967 borders before the Yom Kipur war. Would you accept that? You also have not stated wether you condemn the killings of innocent men,women and children.

I would rather have the '48 borders. And what is your definition of "innocent"?

I don't have to answer any of your stupid questions.

Yes you do have to answer it if you want to hvae credibility around here.

Jews created the conflict in Palestine, not Arabs.

That's entirely debatable.

The Arabs' failure to expel the land-hungry newcomers does not make the Jews' intrusion right in any way.

Nor does it make the Arabs attempts to expel the Jews right either. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Whats your problem? You have all of 25 posts and most of those have been spent posting here telling everyone to stop posting. You even made a thread in moderation to close it. This thread is not breaking the rules and there's a lot of discussion going on. If you don't like it leave and stop posting in here.

Here here.

if this thread makes 3,000 I will cry.

Steel yourself, m'man. Steel yourself.

I would rather have the '48 borders. And what is your definition of "innocent"?

Unfortunately, that will not happen. They had their chance to accept that in 1948 and blew that chance when they violated a UN Resolution and attacked Israel.

As to innocent civilians, those are the people who are not in military uniforms or wearing badges signaling they are a member of a militia.

As to innocent civilians, those are the people who are not in military uniforms or wearing badges signaling they are a member of a militia.

See, to me very few Israelis are truly innocent.

1) almost half the population are immigrants. Meaning they came to Israel, supporting the occupation and of their free will. Not innocent.

2) nearly everyone in Israel serves, has served, or will serve in the military which continues the occupation and wars against its neighbours. Again, not innocent.

See, to me very few Israelis are truly innocent.

1) almost half the population are immigrants. Meaning they came to Israel, supporting the occupation and of their free will. Not innocent.

2) nearly everyone in Israel serves, has served, or will serve in the military which continues the occupation and wars against its neighbours. Again, not innocent.You don't have a choice in joining the military. A lot of Israelis that serve protest against the actions of the government and military. Then again, no one is saying that the Israelis are innocent. There aren't very many innocents in this conflict. The Israeilis hold the upper hand when it comes to technology and firepower, and thank goodness they are more likely to listen than the extremists among the Palestinians.

Which was negotiated I might add with the Oslo accords, then the terrorists stirred things up and that ended that. .

Nice, the way you ignore the massive spurt of settlement building that provoked the violence,


Meaning Israel? They had their chance to return there. They refused.
.

You haven't shown me that offer yet, let alone admit to having read it.


See, to me very few Israelis are truly innocent. .

Back under your bridge.

That's entirely debatable.



No, If the jews weren't there wouldn't any conflict in the middle east, and if there is it would far less than what have been caused by the jews.

See, to me very few Israelis are truly innocent.


Yes,but,to some people,very few Muslims are truly innocent.See?This argument goes full circle.

Which is exactly why this thread should just die.

Yes,but,to some people,very few Muslims are truly innocent.See?This argument goes full circle.

Which is exactly why this thread should just die.

So Muslims aren't innocent simply because of their faith? That doesn't make sense.

Whats your problem? You have all of 25 posts and most of those have been spent posting here telling everyone to stop posting. You even made a thread in moderation to close it. This thread is not breaking the rules and there's a lot of discussion going on. If you don't like it leave and stop posting in here.

What's your problem with the Jews?Have they ever done anything to you,personally?Go on,has a Jew murdered any of your family?Stolen any of your possessions?It seems that with your newfound faith,in which I'm happy for you,you've gained an insane hatred for a race which has probably done nothing to you.

So Muslims aren't innocent simply because of their faith? That doesn't make sense.

You're using the exact same argument for the Jews.You're claiming that the vast majority of the Israelis are blood-thirsty genocidal murderers,intent on claiming the Holy Land for themselves and dissolving Palestine in order for them to settle.Evidently you can't get it into your head that not all Israelis are 'teh ebil' and that you're just generalising mindlessly.

Yes,but,to some people,very few Muslims are truly innocent.See?This argument goes full circle.

Which is exactly why this thread should just die.Then look at the facts. Look at what Jews have done and why. Look at what Arabs have done and why. Look at what Muslims have done and why, although this latter aspect is rather irrelevant to the problems, as this isn't about faith but about livelihood and mere survival.

You're claiming that the vast majority of the Israelis are blood-thirsty genocidal murderers,intent on claiming the Holy Land for themselves and dissolving Palestine in order for them to settle.But that's exactly what they in fact did and do. Without the Jewish desire for land, there would have been no war that now lasts for over 80 years.

But that's exactly what they in fact did and do.

Ok,so some Israelis are bad eggs.The same as some Americans,Britons,Germans,Lithuanians,hell I could name any nation.The fact is you're pointing the finger at the entire nation's population,which simply isn't right.Because it ISN'T the entire nation's population that wants what's going on,you're telling me there isn't one pacifist Israeli?Not one Israeli who isn't sorry for the Palestinian's suffering or an Israeli that simply wants peace?

Then look at the facts. Look at what Jews have done and why. Look at what Arabs have done and why. Look at what Muslims have done and why, although this latter aspect is rather irrelevant to the problems, as this isn't about faith but about livelihood and mere survival.

PROVIDE me with facts.
And if it's irrelevant,why mention it?

Ok,so some Israelis are bad eggs.The same as some Americans,Britons,Germans,Lithuanians,hell I could name any nation.The fact is you're pointing the finger at the entire nation's population,which simply isn't right.Because it ISN'T the entire nation's population that wants what's going on,you're telling me there isn't one pacifist Israeli?Not one Israeli who isn't sorry for the Palestinian's suffering or an Israeli that simply wants peace?

No, most Israelis are "bad eggs". There are few decent israelis who protest, but they are a very small minority.

No, most Israelis are "bad eggs". There are few decent israelis who protest, but they are a very small minority.

Same can be said about everyone in such a case. The truth remains, you judge people only by what you see as wrong and right, you don't for once try to imagine that many others have their own problems and struggles in their daily lives.
The fact that you, as an "enlightened" person as you so claim, choose to use rhetorics which is being used to generalize a population without knowing them one by one, is actually making the sin that you yourself accuse others in doing.

PROVIDE me with facts.
And if it's irrelevant,why mention it?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=512346

3000 posts - or BUST! Let the final flush commence!

Same can be said about everyone in such a case. The truth remains, you judge people only by what you see as wrong and right, you don't for once try to imagine that many others have their own problems and struggles in their daily lives.
The fact that you, as an "enlightened" person as you so claim, choose to use rhetorics which is being used to generalize a population without knowing them one by one, is actually making the sin that you yourself accuse others in doing.The results of Israeli's daily lives speak for themselves.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=512346

The results of Israeli's daily lives speak for themselves.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=512346

Again, your assumptions that israelis as a whole supports it is borderline on generalizing...
But, you never did cared what I said, cause all your rhetorics were aimed at one purpose, my and my family's demise (And I'm not being harsh, but that's the reality that can be seen in words such as those you've said)

No, most Israelis are "bad eggs". There are few decent israelis who protest, but they are a very small minority.

No,your just putting this whole thing into a black and white perspective,which doesn't work at all in todays society.There may be people who don't support what's going on,but don't go out to protest.
Honestly,who would have thought such a thing? :rolleyes:

3000 posts - or BUST! Let the final flush commence!

We've already tried,and failed.
In the words of Agent Smith from the Matrix- "It Is Inevitable."

Again, your assumptions that israelis as a whole supports it is borderline on generalizing...
But, you never did cared what I said, cause all your rhetorics were aimed at one purpose, my and my family's demise (And I'm not being harsh, but that's the reality that can be seen in words such as those you've said)While you contribute to all Palestinians' and their families' demise. And if the majority does not support this, then WHY THE FUCK does it happen? It is things like this that Kadima got elected for, to set the borders of Israel as they wish. That's what Sharon stood for and that's what Olmert continues. Unilateral action.

And if the majority does not support this, then WHY THE FUCK does it happen?

Because of the voting system-first past the post.It leads to a minority being voted in-for example,only 30% of the populace may vote for a particular party.But,they got 30% of the vote,because the rest of the populace used their votes on parties that didn't win.So,you see,30% goes to the winning party,and it's enough to get them into power,but 70% do not support their policies and used their votes on different parties.
That sort of burbled out,but you should get the general drift of it.

Because of the voting system-first past the post.It leads to a minority being voted in-for example,only 30% of the populace may vote for a particular party.But,they got 30% of the vote,because the rest of the populace used their votes on parties that didn't win.So,you see,30% goes to the winning party,and it's enough to get them into power,but 70% do not support their policies and used their votes on different parties.
That sort of burbled out,but you should get the general drift of it.
Israel uses virtually pure PR.

Israel uses virtually pure PR.

Damn.
*watches argument crash and burn in flames.*

While you contribute to all Palestinians' and their families' demise. And if the majority does not support this, then WHY THE FUCK does it happen? It is things like this that Kadima got elected for, to set the borders of Israel as they wish. That's what Sharon stood for and that's what Olmert continues. Unilateral action.

Again, shows that you do not know what goes in the head of the average israeli