NationStates Jolt Archive

I fully support Francos Spain.

22 minutes ago The Grand Duchy of Archiduc FRANCO SHALL RULE YOUR ASS!


*cough*flaming*cough*

:?: :?

All this nonsense aside...what is now the current ruling on bug exploits? Are they to be assumed to be fair game until told otherwise, or the other way around?
I can't set policy on the great unknown of what might ever go wrong with the game. But as a general principle, I don't mind the odd unexpected event throwing up a bit of spice. And furthermore, I expect players to take advantage of the game's rules, whatever they are. So if there's a temporary glitch that lets you accomplish your aims and nobody's said you can't exploit it, I expect you to try to exploit it.

If, however, we had a major game problem -- for example, a bug that let you create a nation with the same name as somebody else's, and yours erased theirs -- then I would absolutely take action to stop this as fast as possible (and probably boot anyone out of NationStates who was doing it deliberately). Similarly, griefing is always going to be against the rules, and a glitch that helps people to grief is still illegal.

So it depends on the glitch. But if it's relatively mild, non-destructive, and the mods haven't ruled against it, you should feel pretty confident about exploiting it.

Remember people, Defenders have the advantage, they always have, and this is highly unlikely to change.

well, at least someone is FINALLY being honest around here, someone admits this, someone agrees with what I posted on the other thread, although i think that this outcome thoroughly sucks. there needs to be further clarification for this logic and furhter clarification of the rules that make this possible, and gives some clarification what methods and means are available to invaders in order to be successful.

]
If, however, we had a major game problem -- for example, a bug that let you create a nation with the same name as somebody else's, and yours erased theirs -- then I would absolutely take action to stop this as fast as possible (and probably boot anyone out of NationStates who was doing it deliberately). Similarly, griefing is always going to be against the rules, and a glitch that helps people to grief is still illegal.

I can barely wait the moment where I will have a 5 million nation called Neutred Sputniks :twisted:

]...I expect players to take advantage of the game's rules, whatever they are. So if there's a temporary glitch that lets you accomplish your aims and nobody's said you can't exploit it, I expect you to try to exploit it.
Roger that.

Thanks for the insight, I appreciate it.

]So it depends on the glitch. But if it's relatively mild, non-destructive, and the mods haven't ruled against it, you should feel pretty confident about exploiting it.

Please be more clear. If a glitch removes Francos delegacy like it has twice now can we or can we not invade?

We've gone ahead and started twice now and twice your moderators have stopped us.

From what you've said above it looks more like you're telling us you won't overrule the moderators next time. "Mild and non-destructive" is a very subjective term and I'm confident that my definition would in no way resemble Neuts.

All this nonsense aside...what is now the current ruling on bug exploits? Are they to be assumed to be fair game until told otherwise, or the other way around? Is it likely that violet would make the same decision again, should this happen again?

As a player I would answer; "Sure, the ruling was very clear! The next glitch will be the downfall of Francos :lol:

If I was a GameModerator, I would answer; "That will be decided on a case by case base, so you better not exploit glitches! Our action might dissapoint you."

-=Corinthe=-

Vogonia come on, read this!!

The only change [violet] made was; You may invade when a glitch happens, but moderator's may intervene and eject you from the region, if an extreme unfair advantage has been given to you (deletion of the founder/delegate for instance or stripping the delegate from his/her endorsements by the glitch).
Invading is still 100% legal and exploiting a glitch will not be punished by deletion, but ignoring a request to leave the region might get you ejected by the mods. It's easy as that!

-=Corinthe=-

well, i think the difference is this..
the first time, franky couldn't compete against us, because he wasn't in the un (because of his deletion).
this time, it was allowed, because franky could rally against us..
so it kinda depends on the bug ;)

but correct me if i'm wrong.
anyway, we came close this time, we'll get another chance next time, i'm for one am not giving up, and neither should the rest of you ;)

so stop talking about what we almost had, and start thinking about how to get rid of franky on a legal way, please? ;)

CG

Your mission has been scuttered. I just informed 'Franky' of your plans. Seems unfair to him, since I don't think he's ever visited any of the forums, to assume he'd be aware of this, so I... evened the odds.

what plans?
o well, don't worry, franky does visit these forums, he even occasionally posts in them, but you can tell him all about what we post here ;)

Remember people, Defenders have the advantage, they always have, and this is highly unlikely to change.

well, at least someone is FINALLY being honest around here, someone admits this, someone agrees with what I posted on the other thread, although i think that this outcome thoroughly sucks. there needs to be further clarification for this logic and furhter clarification of the rules that make this possible, and gives some clarification what methods and means are available to invaders in order to be successful.

And you can be successful - You just gotta be good (much like in Invasions in the real world - the bad ones are rarely successful), or have overwhelming numbers (which is why the bad invasions occasionally succeed).

Defender's Advantage occurs in the Real World as well as in NationStates. Since the all the Defender has to do is maintain status quo, while the Attacker must expend energy to shift that status quo, any conflict will have it's success probability skewed in favour of the defending force.

This is not to say that an invasion cannot be successful - There have been plenty of successful invasions, both in NationStates as well as in Real Life. Just that you gotta take into account that the Defender has advantages that the Invader doesn't have...

no offense - i just want a more impartial answer. I'm still not convinced the mods are capable of such impartiality, but unlike most rational thinkers in the state of nature, I'm a forgiving person. and incidentally, when will i get my private tgram like to franky updating me about reforms to invasion rules? dont you think that's a bit much interference in the game by the mods? - what ever happened to laissez faire?

Remember people, Defenders have the advantage, they always have, and this is highly unlikely to change.

well, at least someone is FINALLY being honest around here, someone admits this, someone agrees with what I posted on the other thread, although i think that this outcome thoroughly sucks. there needs to be further clarification for this logic and furhter clarification of the rules that make this possible, and gives some clarification what methods and means are available to invaders in order to be successful.

And you can be successful - You just gotta be good (much like in Invasions in the real world - the bad ones are rarely successful), or have overwhelming numbers (which is why the bad invasions occasionally succeed).

Defender's Advantage occurs in the Real World as well as in NationStates. Since the all the Defender has to do is maintain status quo, while the Attacker must expend energy to shift that status quo, any conflict will have it's success probability skewed in favour of the defending force.

This is not to say that an invasion cannot be successful - There have been plenty of successful invasions, both in NationStates as well as in Real Life. Just that you gotta take into account that the Defender has advantages that the Invader doesn't have...


This is silly. Invading an active region is difficult. Invading an inactive region has to be one of the easiest things in this world. To defend every region all at once with no idea where or when the strike will occur is far harder than coordinating the invasion of a sleepy RP region with only a few endorsements. Get real. It is only because the defenders have been so vigiliant that there is any difficulty at all. Without us watching everywhere all at once invading would be a cakewalk. As it once was. But no more.

]All this nonsense aside...what is now the current ruling on bug exploits? Are they to be assumed to be fair game until told otherwise, or the other way around?
I can't set policy on the great unknown of what might ever go wrong with the game. But as a general principle, I don't mind the odd unexpected event throwing up a bit of spice. And furthermore, I expect players to take advantage of the game's rules, whatever they are. So if there's a temporary glitch that lets you accomplish your aims and nobody's said you can't exploit it, I expect you to try to exploit it.

If, however, we had a major game problem -- for example, a bug that let you create a nation with the same name as somebody else's, and yours erased theirs -- then I would absolutely take action to stop this as fast as possible (and probably boot anyone out of NationStates who was doing it deliberately). Similarly, griefing is always going to be against the rules, and a glitch that helps people to grief is still illegal.

So it depends on the glitch. But if it's relatively mild, non-destructive, and the mods haven't ruled against it, you should feel pretty confident about exploiting it.

So essentially from the Admins view everything worked out OK? There was a glitch, some rulings were made, NS Nations by and large listened to the Rulings, and at the last minute excitement and havoc ensued. General fun?
I agree that it was exciting and despite the fact that my side lost it did make for interesting controversy. (I wish the mods would have discussed it more and talked down to the NS World Less)

The question arises as to what will happen in the future because the failed "Glitch invasion" was not so upsetting to me because we lost but because it interfered with other ongoing operations that now need to be reorganized. We were looking for a difinitive ruling on glitches so that we do not shoot ourselves in the foot again trying to fight windmills. I can live with the determination that we should attempt to exploit glitches and when the mods rule they can fix it. It just seems to lend itself to a mob mentality and less to civilized gameplay. I guess these situations will occur again.

Francos had to deal with the same flip-flopping the invader squad had to deal with. He was told that he would be safe an hour or two right before the update. He could have gone to sleep at that point, assuming that what the moderators had said would be true, and that he could not possibly be deposed.

Would you have had the same sense of self-righteous injustice if Francos had lost his delegateship due to the very same process that you are currently complaining about? I think not.


Still a good point, that I feel will be lost on most. Most find it hard to be objective. I am helping to undermine FS, but even I completely agree with you on this.





no offense - i just want a more impartial answer. I'm still not convinced the mods are capable of such impartiality, but unlike most rational thinkers in the state of nature, I'm a forgiving person.




You’re kidding, right? You think that the mods are really fans of Francos?

KGB, perhaps you'd like to do your reading more carefully....

[violet] has come out and said that they would like to see FS gone....
hang on a titich love i'll fidn the quote.


And incidentally, and not that it matters, but personally I really hope someone manages to unseat Francos Spain. It's an amazing situation. Of course, I'm not going to help or hinder that coming about.


the quote can be found on page 34 of this thread. it's in violet's last point, i believe the very last paragraph.

Yeah, for all my venom and anger... the mods are not fans of FS. I think they made a mistake in jumping in too soon, but I think they are impartial.

Griv,
If there's another bug... ask the mods what's legal... then pray they are correct.

-Drakma-

Francos had to deal with the same flip-flopping the invader squad had to deal with. He was told that he would be safe an hour or two right before the update. He could have gone to sleep at that point, assuming that what the moderators had said would be true, and that he could not possibly be deposed.

Would you have had the same sense of self-righteous injustice if Francos had lost his delegateship due to the very same process that you are currently complaining about? I think not.


Still a good point, that I feel will be lost on most. Most find it hard to be objective. I am helping to undermine FS, but even I completely agree with you on this.

The reason you guys, and a few notable others (Nothingg), understand this part is because you're watching from the other side - you've been on both sides now. I hope that this brings my previous rulings into a little better perspective for everyone ;)





no offense - i just want a more impartial answer. I'm still not convinced the mods are capable of such impartiality, but unlike most rational thinkers in the state of nature, I'm a forgiving person.




You’re kidding, right? You think that the mods are really fans of Francos?That's a knee-slapper :lol:

Francos had to deal with the same flip-flopping the invader squad had to deal with. He was told that he would be safe an hour or two right before the update. He could have gone to sleep at that point, assuming that what the moderators had said would be true, and that he could not possibly be deposed.

Would you have had the same sense of self-righteous injustice if Francos had lost his delegateship due to the very same process that you are currently complaining about? I think not.

Yes, but the question as far as I have seen is not about overturning rulings (a few posts to the contrary), but receiving redress for injury due to the filp flop. Additionally, while I am not sure what time zone FS is in, It has been his pattern to be online at that time anyway. I merely am pointing out the actual situation.
Moreover it was not FS supporters who were ordered to leave.

Still a good point, that I feel will be lost on most. Most find it hard to be objective. I am helping to undermine FS, but even I completely agree with you on this.

I can agree that FS was affected by the flip flop as well...however there was no great rush of support for FS, so we can see that proportionately the invaders were affected to a much greater degree.

no offense - i just want a more impartial answer. I'm still not convinced the mods are capable of such impartiality, but unlike most rational thinkers in the state of nature, I'm a forgiving person.




You’re kidding, right? You think that the mods are really fans of Francos?

Nowhere in the above quote does the poster say that they think the Mods are FS fans. The poster does insinuate that they are not impartial. I have no comment on that bit. Only that I have grown tired of replies that attribute opinions to posters without basis in fact. It is possible that it is implied, or not.

no offense - i just want a more impartial answer. I'm still not convinced the mods are capable of such impartiality, but unlike most rational thinkers in the state of nature, I'm a forgiving person.

You’re kidding, right? You think that the mods are really fans of Francos?That's a knee-slapper :lol:

I, for one, am not laughing at all. Maybe you don't realise it, and I'm sorry to say it, but the mods fucked up. Apparently they promised both sides all would be fine..

no offense - i just want a more impartial answer. I'm still not convinced the mods are capable of such impartiality, but unlike most rational thinkers in the state of nature, I'm a forgiving person.

You’re kidding, right? You think that the mods are really fans of Francos?That's a knee-slapper :lol:

I, for one, am not laughing at all. Maybe you don't realise it, and I'm sorry to say it, but the mods f--- up. Apparently they promised both sides all would be fine..

DOH!!

They have admitted it. So what?!

-=Corinthe=-

Okay, so there was a mod snafu, but there was also a glitch in the game. Let's let this go and move on. It's over. The resistance can regroup and reconsolidate and do what it needs to do. Further, I think everyone learned valuable lessons regarding to this weekend's episode, including the mods. Remember, they don't get paid for doing their jobs. I know it was upsetting to say the least, but we can't keep debating this over and over...the mods are aware of what happened. As long as they learn from the mistakes this weekend, then everything will work out in the long run.

So, my one remaining question is why havent those 150+ nations that endorsed Corinthe consolidated their efforts prior to the attempt to exploit a glitch. Seems like there's a lot of talk, but not too many nations really willing to walk the walk...

So, my one remaining question is why havent those 150+ nations that endorsed Corinthe consolidated their efforts prior to the attempt to exploit a glitch. Seems like there's a lot of talk, but not too many nations really willing to walk the walk...

It looked like most had backed off the argument, why did you feel it was necessary to taunt them?

So, my one remaining question is why havent those 150+ nations that endorsed Corinthe consolidated their efforts prior to the attempt to exploit a glitch. Seems like there's a lot of talk, but not too many nations really willing to walk the walk...

Maybe because some of them were banned, because of the attempt some days before... Seems there's a lot of talk indeed...



"Wise men talk because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something." -Plato

So, my one remaining question is why havent those 150+ nations that endorsed Corinthe consolidated their efforts prior to the attempt to exploit a glitch. Seems like there's a lot of talk, but not too many nations really willing to walk the walk...

It looked like most had backed off the argument, why did you feel it was necessary to taunt them?

I agree. I have tried to back off and atleast agree you're human and can make mistakes, and now you have to dive back into it and make imflamitory remarks? So you like people to be mad at you so you can post at them in retort or do you just suffer from gluttony?

If you want it to die, Neut, don't throw gas on the dimming fire. If you want those who have calmed down to be whipped back into a frenzy, then by all means, keep it up.

And as for an answer to your question, what makes you think the 150 nations aren't doing anything? What kind of idiot attacks immediately after the second frontal assault fails? Since we know direct assaults lead to mass bannings (that the mods find acceptable and legal) then we have to rely on subterfuge, right?. You do get 150 trusted nations onboard for that kind of action in 24 hours.

-Drakma-

So, my one remaining question is why havent those 150+ nations that endorsed Corinthe consolidated their efforts prior to the attempt to exploit a glitch. Seems like there's a lot of talk, but not too many nations really willing to walk the walk...

They had, they were and they are. It has been an overall perception of mod bias and FS script use that has prevented earlier actions. These perceptions (notice I use the word perception not fact) are now being calculated into the overall equation. We appreciate your concern though. Even though we owe you nothing, you should grow up and...uhm, oh yeah get over it. HEHE. :wink:

So, my one remaining question is why havent those 150+ nations that endorsed Corinthe consolidated their efforts prior to the attempt to exploit a glitch. Seems like there's a lot of talk, but not too many nations really willing to walk the walk...

It looked like most had backed off the argument, why did you feel it was necessary to taunt them?

Sorry to say, but the Neut is right. If it wasn't for the glitch, you would never have attacked in the first place.
Neut is challenging you, but instead you decide to get angry. There is allot of energy there. Practice what you preach and show him wrong. Your anger at the Neut can be put at good use. As long as you stck by the rules, Neut is not your enemy. You know who it is!

-=Corinthe=-

So, my one remaining question is why havent those 150+ nations that endorsed Corinthe consolidated their efforts prior to the attempt to exploit a glitch. Seems like there's a lot of talk, but not too many nations really willing to walk the walk...

Getting 150+ nations to give an endorsement against Francos Spain within a 'safe' 24 hour period is easy. Heck, with some minor preparation 300+ is doable. What has been lacking is that 24 hour 'safe' period. Safe from being banned. The presence of that ban button for that one delegate in power makes all the difference in the world. It means that all of a sudden a lot of people are required to move their nations around at 4 AM. And that's where Real Life comes in. Most people correctly give priority to that, while others have a problem with doing so (see for instance Corinthe).

If this game was more than just a game, it'd be a reasonable thing to expect. But it isn't. It's a game. A fun game, an addictive game to some, but 'just' a game nontheless.

Ballotonia

So, my one remaining question is why havent those 150+ nations that endorsed Corinthe consolidated their efforts prior to the attempt to exploit a glitch. Seems like there's a lot of talk, but not too many nations really willing to walk the walk...

It looked like most had backed off the argument, why did you feel it was necessary to taunt them?

Sorry to say, but the Neut is right. If it wasn't for the glitch, you would never have attacked in the first place.
Neut is challenging you, but instead you decide to get angry. There is allot of energy there. Practice what you preach and show him wrong. Your anger at the Neut can be put at good use. As long as you stck by the rules, Neut is not your enemy. You know who it is!

-=Corinthe=-

Not to attack Neut, I actually have tried to calm some of that in my organization, but there have been attempts. Corinthe you know this to be true. I will grant that not all have lost sleep as some of us have, but to state that people are not trying is rather incorrect as well. One thing I think we all agree on, we know who the "enemy" is. The "solution" while easily stated is a bit more difficult in practice, I think all who have made these attempts will agree that this is the case. This has led to the level of frustration with the failure of an "easier" solution, not that I believe it was the most equitable way to depose of Francos.

I was not attempting to inflame anyone. I was simply pointing out that it took a glitch to get everyone working together. Now, all you people have been claiming that Corinthe had nearly 200 endorsements. Where were they before the weekend? Where are they now? As I've stated before, so far I've seen 2 attempts even come close to uprooting Francos - 1 being the 125 multies, and the other being the exploitation of the glitch.

If all you liberators would band together, work together instead of everyone on their own little projects, you'd have taken Francos out already. That's what Hack and I have been hinting at for the past 1 1/2 months.

Now, if this post angers you, perhaps there's a reason for it, and rather than turn that anger towards me, use it to correct the reason this post caused you to become angered ;)

If all you liberators would band together, work together instead of everyone on their own little projects, you'd have taken Francos out already.

Bingo!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

If you want to join ongoing attempts, as we speak, go ask Ballotonia if he needs help. I don't know if he's still busy though.

-=Corinthe=-

If all you liberators would band together, work together instead of everyone on their own little projects, you'd have taken Francos out already. That's what Hack and I have been hinting at for the past 1 1/2 months.


Although I can't claim to be one of the angry mob ready to take you at the throat, I do think you are making the solution sound trival. Groups are working together that would have never done so in the past. Much work has been done, only to see promised support not come through. This has much to do with the very small window the invaders are working with rather than an inability to work together. Not a complaint, just a fact. Corinthe's attack did not suffer this problem. Your point is well taken, and we must do better if we plan to acheive the goal, something many of us are more than willing to try again and again and again.

Now, all you people have been claiming that Corinthe had nearly 200 endorsements. Where were they before the weekend? Where are they now?

They went back to their respective regions. They're not available at server update time to hold an invasion. Ya know, Real Life and such...

Ballotonia

Angry mob? No, but it's a fact I didn't appreciated the post. I'm agreeing totally with Siggi here. At Corinthe's attack several invaders and defenders regions helped to dethrone Franco, I think that you could call that working together

I was not attempting to inflame anyone. I was simply pointing out that it took a glitch to get everyone working together. Now, all you people have been claiming that Corinthe had nearly 200 endorsements. Where were they before the weekend? Where are they now? As I've stated before, so far I've seen 2 attempts even come close to uprooting Francos - 1 being the 125 multies, and the other being the exploitation of the glitch.

If all you liberators would band together, work together instead of everyone on their own little projects, you'd have taken Francos out already. That's what Hack and I have been hinting at for the past 1 1/2 months.

Now, if this post angers you, perhaps there's a reason for it, and rather than turn that anger towards me, use it to correct the reason this post caused you to become angered ;)

And I suppose it is pretty easy for you to tell us that that is the problem. Have you ever taken out a Pacific Delegate with virtually unlimited Banning ability and Mod support (again this IS the perception). Have you ever snuck 200 nations into a region and coordinated the attack of such a large force? The spontaneous attack in answer to a window of opportunity did not display the depth of discontent at the current Delegate in The Pacific. It was merely an uncoordinated outpouring of the tip of the iceberg.
As a delegate it is really easy to boot, I know. When you have Carte Blanche to do so it is just that much easier.
In the end Neut you are right that that is what it will take. However...Have you ever even seen such an undertakeing succeed? Against a banning maniac with no limits on his oppression?
It will be done. And not only do I talk the talk, but I walk the walk each and everyday, much to the dismay of the crashers. 8)

Grivinis. Show me.

Neut, things are in the planning... It's tough to get all those nations back when they still have the sting of the lose... a lose that was aided by you... we're the planners... we'll do our job... you keep doing yours.

Maybe YOU shouldn't be the guy telling people to get back in there. You have become the lightning rod for people to be pissed at over the Pacific liberation. And seeing you tell people what they need to do only elicits the reply, "If we want to win the pacific, he's what Neut has to do..." (insert scene of impossible proportions) :oops:

I think we'll work at our speed and get it done, but thanks for the "Win this one for the gipper, reply.

-Drakma-


:Edit - man my spelling sucks:

:Edit: double post... doh
:oops:

-Drakma-

It will be done.
But not rushed through rash talk, or to impress others.
My nation will most certainately not participate in this form.
And it will be done when The Group decides.
As you point out is must be done through coordination. But you will see. It is not a mystery what needs to be done. It was not something that needed to be hinted at. It only needed to be committed to. I believe that commitment is here.

So I will not show you. But it will be done.
Watch.

Geez, lock this thread already. The mods are right and the Pacific resistance is right. Let everyone get back to work!

Geez, lock this thread already. The mods are right and the Pacific resistance is right. Let everyone get back to work!

If this thread was locked, others would be opened. This thread serves the purpose of keeping the topic in one place.

By the way, did you know that Franco and Poskrybishev are both Ukrainians? :D

If all you liberators would band together, work together instead of everyone on their own little projects, you'd have taken Francos out already. That's what Hack and I have been hinting at for the past 1 1/2 months.


It's not that easy, many of these groups hold grudges, there is infighting, and even when two decent invasions were launched, it was easy for Francos to eject every nation with any endorsements, and all of their endorsers.

Sure, since he has spies almost everywhere.

[violet] has come out and said that they would like to see FS gone....
hang on a titich love i'll fidn the quote.


I haven't been able to sift through today's digest. But gee, I sure as hell saw this! Check our other thread re: [violet]. All along we've been accusing [violet] of being biased. So Thanks for the moral support!

That's what Hack and I have been hinting at for the past 1 1/2 months.


let me just follow up what my friend just said, why would anyone who wasn't biased be hinting that a certain region should be sacked (and presumably, how to sack it)!? :oops:

I think [violet] views this entire event as an interesting experiment... like when a scientist watches the lab mice learn to find the cheese. [Violet] doesn't care if the mice win or the maze beats them... it's just to watch the mice try.

I don't think [violet] has anything against FS... [Violet] doesn't play the game. Didn't even know what a Crazy Girl was... and she's everywhere.

I think she'd like people to have fun, and she can see... by the now 40 pages of this thread... that FS pisses people off, but it's not personal. If [violet] or the mods wanted to kill of FS, they wouldn't have interfered on Sunday night, right?

It's only thier interference that saved his hide (people can say he had X number of nations up his sleeve but it's not provable. We had a victory on paper). If anything, the mods are playing both sides of the fence... egging us to do something and then putting the kibash on it.

I think there is a pool somewhere in Modland on when FS will be booted and Neut stepped in to keep his chances of a Xmas booting alive. :D

-Drakma-

*Biffs Drakma, with and without the dashes*
Go back to whining :wink:
I think the descisions are basically made on the basis of fairness and what will cause the least amount of work down the road.
Both reasonable determinants.

Francos had to deal with the same flip-flopping the invader squad had to deal with. He was told that he would be safe an hour or two right before the update. He could have gone to sleep at that point, assuming that what the moderators had said would be true, and that he could not possibly be deposed.

Would you have had the same sense of self-righteous injustice if Francos had lost his delegateship due to the very same process that you are currently complaining about? I think not.


Still a good point, that I feel will be lost on most. Most find it hard to be objective. I am helping to undermine FS, but even I completely agree with you on this.

The reason you guys, and a few notable others (Nothingg), understand this part is because you're watching from the other side - you've been on both sides now. I hope that this brings my previous rulings into a little better perspective for everyone ;)

Not really so different, I am doing what I can to help the invasion against Francos. If we can keep interest up well enough to plan rather then simply act, think we can do it as well. Anyway, I feel either way a game glitch should not be manipulated to a player’s advantage, so I agreed with your original decision. That said, there is some logic in what [violet] said to, so I can see both sides.




Okay, so there was a mod snafu, but there was also a glitch in the game. Let's let this go and move on. It's over. The resistance can regroup and reconsolidate and do what it needs to do.

You know, if you are angry about this take this slow-ward moving thread, go through it, find the names of those who oppose FS and use it to your advantage.


So, my one remaining question is why havent those 150+ nations that endorsed Corinthe consolidated their efforts prior to the attempt to exploit a glitch. Seems like there's a lot of talk, but not too many nations really willing to walk the walk...

It looked like most had backed off the argument, why did you feel it was necessary to taunt them?


I don't think he was taunting them. As KM said, "I'm tired of re-acting/Lets activate something."

What's wrong with trying to get people to stand up?

What is wrong with speaking your mind? :roll: You may piss a few people off. :twisted: but hey, it is at least interesting. :lol: I respect and applaud nations who speak their mind alot more than ones that make wishy washy statements or try to curry favor. 8)

you know -drakma-, much of what you say is plausible, except that most of the absolutist assertions are far outside the scope of your possible knowledge (or are they)? Your claims are so myopic and biased. Almost as biased as the behavior by the mods in the pacific. and yes, I do wonder, are they biased elsewhere?

dont you get it - the mods screwed all the antis in the pacific, including themselves- that's why sputs started this thread in the first place.

let's get those crashing rules clarified, please.

you know -Drakma-, much of what you say is plausible, except that most of the absolutist assertions are far outside the scope of your possible knowledge (or are they)? Your claims are so myopic and biased. Almost as biased as the behavior by the mods in the pacific. and yes, I do wonder, are they biased elsewhere?

dont you get it - the mods screwed all the antis in the pacific, including themselves- that's why sputs started this thread in the first place.

let's get those crashing rules clarified, please.

KGB, most of what I have written in actually posted on this thread. I'm just summing up here. {violet] finds the Fs situation interesting, but doesn't really care. If [violet] cared, [violet] would have a UN nation.


and sort of off topic for the pacific...

The rules on crashing are set. YOU CAN CRASH! We can crash the pacific (no victory yet :oops:). But you can have your crash stopped by better crashers. If the other crashers, know as anti's, win... then you are in a region where you're not a native. So the new delegate can toss you out. This is the same thing you would do if the anti's lost. You wouldn't allow them to stick around and force you to keep UN Nations tied up defending the new conquest, YOU'D eject them to the RR.

As the delegate from the RR so eloquently put it, being an Anti is being a crasher with a different end strategy. We crash and then leave without harming the region or altering the boards. You crash and stay. The rules apply to both of us. The reason your calls to the Mods for help against us go unanswered is because we are VERY careful not to grief.

You may think we're griefing, because you wake up in the RR... but it's all done strictly by the book. We took special efforts to ask the Mods what's legal and what is not.

Now to tie this back into the pacific, if FS is defeated, he and his buddies can and will be thrown out. Can we boot all of those who endorse him? Probably not. If I were the delegate, I’d ask the Mods that question. They’re not going to say, “Try it and find out.”

Just remember, there’s always a better crasher out there then yourself.

-Drakma-

I hope that this brings my previous rulings into a little better perspective for everyone
I don't have any perspective problems regarding your previous rulings.

Just remember, there’s always a better crasher out there then yourself.
That statement applies to almost everyone...

I hope that this brings my previous rulings into a little better perspective for everyone
I don't have any perspective problems regarding your previous rulings.

Just remember, there’s always a better crasher out there then yourself.
That statement applies to almost everyone...

Yes who is potentially the better crasher than [violet]?

I hope that this brings my previous rulings into a little better perspective for everyone
I don't have any perspective problems regarding your previous rulings.

Just remember, there’s always a better crasher out there then yourself.
That statement applies to almost everyone...

Yes who is potentially the better crasher than [violet]?

An actual nation?

I created a forum for all people who feel they are a victim of Francos. If you just want to complain about him, and you don't care what other's think about it, just join my forum. This thread could do without all the repeated complaints about rejections, right? And this way I feel like if I'm playing NationStates again

http://s2.invisionfree.com/The_Pacific/

It totally cool :) I worked 3 days on building it. It even has a money option, for if you want to buy weapons to invade The Pacific and shoot the Heck out of any dictator, or if you just want to buy stuff for roleplay.

You can also disuss it here: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1984996#1984996

I like it if you join with your nation's name :)

-=Corinthe=-

:roll:

There is more pride in being delegate or founder the bigger the region is. If people do not like Fracos Spain they can just move. That gets you away from that tyrant and it also gives him less pride. If you are reading this and are currently located in The Pacific, leave now. Be one less token of pride the cruel Francos Spain possesses. :idea:

This are the FACTS, either we all like them or not:

1.-Francos gained The UN delegacy in great part thanks to a GLITCH!!! on the game, the Mods ruled in favor of Francos, they said that it have to be like in the real world..."stuff happens"... ok.

2.-Another GLITCH, Francos died... an attempt to recover The Pacific by the former nations...Francos gets REVIVED and REINSTALLED!!!... again The Mods ruled in Favor of Francos...ok.

3.-Another attempt to recover The Pacific...a GLITCH cames in the middle...somebody decides to intervine and Francos is saved again... ok.

Can any one see errors here?, if the Mods decided to let the things be the first time, this have to be a precedent, then... be coherent with your first decisions no matter what, or stay apart all the time; whatever your choice is, for good or bad(this depends on the side) stick to it so we all know what to do.

Im not telling you "trow away that dictator!", or "ban all that whiners" just want you to keep the game consistent to let everyone enjoy this game.

Here is an idea, write down to a stone(forum stone hehe) a set of unbreakable rules for this kind of events (to be obeyed by the NATIONS and the MODS equally).
I know there is no way to undo the wrongs made; well there is, but no-one will take that steps, that's ok.
To me, an excuse is sufficient.

NIce post! :D

I have heard there are different rules for the pacifics, could someone please provide a link to them?

NIce post! :D

I have heard there are different rules for the pacifics, could someone please provide a link to them?

That'll be possible as soon as they're published ;).

Ballotonia

waitaminut... are you telling me i'm supposed to be following unpublished rules?

waitaminut... are you telling me i'm supposed to be following unpublished rules?
No, hopefully a clarification of the rules will be posted here.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

waitaminut... are you telling me i'm supposed to be following unpublished rules?

Lol, what Ballotonia means, are rules that delegates makes when they are in power, to keep spammers and invaders out, or rules they make to keep themselves in the delegate's seat. :P

-=Corinthe=-

waitaminut... are you telling me i'm supposed to be following unpublished rules?

Lol, what Ballotonia means, are rules that delegates makes when they are in power, to keep spammers and invaders out, or rules they make to keep themselves in the delegate's seat. :P

-=Corinthe=-

No, that is not what I meant. A little clarification on who said what here... (well, my interpretation of the messages, that is :) )

Bistmath: I heard from Ballotonia there's a special ruleset for feeder regions. What is it?
Me: You'll know when they're being posted. Please be patient.
Bistmath: But what to do in the mean time?
Tactical Grace: Proceed as normal.


So, what happened before this? I asked for a rule clarification (expecting a yes/no response) and received a whole ruleset. Since it wasn't published by the mods, and I haven't been authorized to publish it, I'm not providing details on it. Please let the mods figure out how to proceed here and we'll hear it when we do. I personally see no reason for urgency on this.

Ballotonia

well the Pacifics rules are as I under stand themn.

1, there are NO natives of the Pacifics, only residents, so no one can claim Im a native and XXX booted me,

2, as the Pacifics cannot be locked, in order to protect them the Delegate can boot and keep a person banned

3, in the Pacifics, regional Spamvertisment is legal, However if your Delegate is able to boot them then you can keep that person out,

4, normal spam is not tolerated at all, spamming the regional happenings, orthe board or memners of the pacifics when reported has usually resulted in the offending nation being modbombed asap.


I know that there are a few more but I cannot recall them at this tiem, I will add them as I remember them,

also in the pacifics most are ruled but the delegate who has a panel of advisors and all but Francos pacific now have either Constitutions or as in teh EP, Articles of Confederation.

waitaminut... are you telling me i'm supposed to be following unpublished rules?
No, hopefully a clarification of the rules will be posted here.

Tactical Grace
Forum Moderator

ok, the logic tell me this:

Until clarification of the rules is published, all the nations shall obey and be ruled by the EXISTENT rules, NOT by the VAPOR-RULES made by the mods as the game goes on!!!

btw. my original nation is Zoomland, if anyone cares about

There is so much yackity-yack in this thread.

If you want the region back, invade it. If you want help on invading it Telegram me at Ackbar101 or Ackbar1001. I am working with other people.

Too many moments wasted reading talk, not enough people in the planning stage, tho we do have quite a few.

There is so much yackity-yack in this thread.

If you want the region back, invade it. If you want help on invading it Telegram me at Ackbar101 or Ackbar1001. I am working with other people.

Too many moments wasted reading talk, not enough people in the planning stage, tho we do have quite a few.

I made an offsite forum for the "yackity-yack" (ask Crazy Girl for it). I hope it will become an oficial The Pacific forum one day. If anybody here just want to complain, my forum is the way to go. Ackbar, can you help me with this? I really need help of leader figures, and I see no possibility to contact them, since I still not joining the game.
I personally think that all the whining in this NS thread is clogging up the issue. We can easily fill a complete forum about The Pacific :P

-=Corinthe=-

I agree. Feel free to TM me the link for your off-site forum, or if you aren't TMing any more get the link to me somehow, will do what I can.

i've sent you a telegram with the link ackbar.

I agree. Feel free to TM me the link for your off-site forum, or if you aren't TMing any more get the link to me somehow, will do what I can.

I really don't want to use this forum for that and I have no means to TG. Crazy Girl has the link, and it's also somewhere in this (awfully long) thread.

The whining keeps on bumping this tread, though it doesn't add anything to the discussion. The mods gotta agree with this :wink:

If you have a constructive opinion on why The Pacific should be Democratic (the opposite of what it is now), this is still a cool thread to post in, but I urge you all to read the whole thread first :P

-=Corinthe=-

If you have a constructive opinion on why The Pacific should be Democratic (the opposite of what it is now), this is still a cool thread to post in, but I urge you all to read the whole thread first :P

Anyone wishing to post in this topic will be required to read all of the preceding 41 pages of discussion, be capable of reciting it from memory without error, paraphrase it two different ways, logically analyze it to identify the valid and invalid arguments, and translate it into two other languages.

Anyone not meeting these requirements who posts anyway will be deleted.

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
Bastard NationStates Moderator from Hell

...

This joke is a reference to "The Bastard NS Moderator from Hell (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=78882)".

If you have a constructive opinion on why The Pacific should be Democratic (the opposite of what it is now), this is still a cool thread to post in, but I urge you all to read the whole thread first :P

I think this thread merely exists now to catch whatever the next foobar is gonna be in The Pacific. It could be weeks from now, but when it does this thread will be here :)

Ballotonia


BOFH-related EDIT: I've read all preceding pages, can translate them into both Dutch and Flemish, know all arguments from mods are valid and those from non-mods are non-valid, and can recite them from .... uh... what was that word again?

well, we can always hope for another fire in the UN HQ...

*hides box of matches behind her back*

eheh We can always burn Francos UN card. :lol:

more fun to give him a hot foot.

(has read all the thread can translate it into french, latin, german, asl...)

we can do both ;)

*hands out matches to freemon and bisty*

(has also read the entire thread, and can translate it in many languages using online translators)

If you have a constructive opinion on why The Pacific should be Democratic (the opposite of what it is now), this is still a cool thread to post in, but I urge you all to read the whole thread first :P

Anyone wishing to post in this topic will be required to read all of the preceding 41 pages of discussion, be capable of reciting it from memory without error, paraphrase it two different ways, logically analyze it to identify the valid and invalid arguments, and translate it into two other languages.

Anyone not meeting these requirements who posts anyway will be deleted.

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
Bastard NationStates Moderator from Hell

...

This joke is a reference to "The Bastard NS Moderator from Hell (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=78882)".

Who knew mods had a sense of humor? :wink: :lol:

we can do both ;)

*hands out matches to freemon and bisty*

(has also read the entire thread, and can translate it in many languages using online translators)

I think we should mayo his doorknob too...

okay sorry. should get myself back on topic.

we can do both ;)

*hands out matches to freemon and bisty*

(has also read the entire thread, and can translate it in many languages using online translators)

Earlier in the thread, I RPed my UN Ambassador about to scratch out Francos's Delegacy credentials....

The Pacific invasion should have been legit! I got my UN nation banned for (apparently) having UN multis. I did NOT have multis. Well that's democracy for you.

Wait a minute...the Mods can DELETE nations?

lol

Anyone wishing to post in this topic will be:

Let's see...

required to read all of the preceding 41 pages of discussion,

Done that, actually several times.

be capable of reciting it from memory without error,

Refer to next point.

paraphrase it two different ways,

Refer to next point.

logically analyze it to identify the valid and invalid arguments, and

This is very easily done.

translate it into two other languages.

Ok. Here it goes the analyzed and condensed version of this thread, in english and two additional languages:

Mods rule, you suck, all hail Francos Spain!!

Los Mods mandan, vosotros a joderse, ¡Viva Francos Spain!

Els Mods manen, vosaltres furgueu-vos, Visca Francos Spain!!

Anyone not meeting these requirements who posts anyway will be deleted.


I 4R D4 M4ST4H!!11!!!

Seriously now, when I first heard about the problem in the Pacific and heard the name of the nation causing the problems, I re-moved this nation to the Pacific, gave it UN membership and started collecting endorsements.
As most of you know, when I got to the 100 threshold, I found myself in the lovely region known as the Rejected Realms.
Seeing that there wasn't the solution, I moved another puppet, Kaiburr, with UN status into the Pacific.
This time the idea was to support one specific kind of invasion. I started endorsing all endorsers of FS, Posky and II, but not those three, of course. This way, if there was an automated threshold, and additional people endorsed them, FS and co. would find themselves expelling their own support, making a invasion easier. A lot of the endorsing nations actually don't give a damn about it and are not interested in being in the Pacific or in the RR. I'd bet a lot of them would stay in the RR and not come back.
Problem is that I started to collect back endorsements, without asking for them. This might have been noticed, as I got a Telegram from Francos Spain demanding me to endorse him, which I didn't do, of course. When I got about 25 endorsements, I had another nation in the RR. Though I am not sure if it was due to a very low threshold (IIRC, FS was about 60 endorsements back then) or my not complying with his demands.
Sigh. I passed my UN Status to yet another puppet and put it in the Pacific, waiting for some action. It is still there, as I missed the Sad Sunday events.