NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25213217-23109,00.html

A SRI Lankan-born man who came to Britain 17 years ago is reportedly refusing to serve customers in his post office unless they speak English.
Deva Sumarasiri, 40, whose shop is in a racially mixed inner-city area, believes he has to stand up for the English language because otherwise the social fabric of the country will disintegrate.

Asians, eastern Europeans and others coming to his post office in Nottingham, central England, to claim state benefits or post letters must speak English or they will not be served, he said.

"If you don't want to be British, go home," he told the Daily Mail newspaper.

"The fabric of the nation begins to unravel if we don't all speak the same language."

Mr Sumarasiri, who flies British flags in his front garden, added: "An Asian woman came in here yesterday and I insisted she spoke to me in English.

"She replied she preferred to speak in her mother tongue but I told her Britain was now her motherland and she should speak English."


So, even this guy, who immigrated himself, says that immigrants aren't making enough of an effort to integrate. What do you have to say to that, NSG?

lol daily mail

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25213217-23109,00.html



So, even this guy, who immigrated himself, says that immigrants aren't making enough of an effort to integrate. What do you have to say to that, NSG?

*shrugs*
So he won't serve them unless they speak English. His shop, his choice. I wonder what happens if tourists start to complain, though...

That man is an idiot, regardless of where he comes from. Not surprising the Daily Mail interviewed him.

"Asians, eastern Europeans and others coming to his post office in Nottingham, central England, to claim state benefits or post letters must speak English or they will not be served, he said."
Is that even legal? He's denying people access to money they are owed on the basis of the language they speak?
"The fabric of the nation begins to unravel if we don't all speak the same language."
I can only assume that Mr. Sumarasiri has never heard of Wales.

I can only assume that Mr. Sumarasiri has never heard of Wales.

Wales is a different nation. It's bilingual.

wales is a different nation. It's bilingual.maaaaaaah!

Wales is a different nation. It's bilingual.

Then what is Britain? He said himself that if they don't want to be British they should go home. Britain is, in part, multilingual and has been for centuries. But I'm sure the destruction of society will happen because of those filthy Welsh eventually. Any day now.

Then what is Britain? He said himself that if they don't want to be British they should go home. Britain is, in part, multilingual and has been for centuries. But I'm sure the destruction of society will happen because of those filthy Welsh eventually. Any day now.

The dominant language in Britain is English. Other languages are comparatively minor. Besides, I think it's a bit ridiculous to compare a native language like Welsh or Scots to a completely foreign one like Punjabi.

The dominant language in Britain is English. Other languages are comparatively minor. Besides, I think it's a bit ridiculous to compare a native language like Welsh or Scots to a completely foreign one like Punjabi.

So Punjabi is a major language, rather than a minor one?
And why make a difference between native and foreign languages if it's people's maternal language?
If anything, there might be an argument to be made not to recognise Welsh, as there are next to no native speakers left and the language is kept alive artificially.

I'm fairly sure that if I were fleeing hunger, political oppression or a natural disaster, I would be unlikely to have the means to enrol in a convenient English language class before I left.

The dominant language in Britain is English. Other languages are comparatively minor. Besides, I think it's a bit ridiculous to compare a native language like Welsh or Scots to a completely foreign one like Punjabi.
Or English.

The dominant language in Britain is English...

So people ought to not be allowed to speak any other language then the dominant one?
So if I, for example, went to the German bakery here, I should be forced to speak English with the family that runs it?

So Punjabi is a major language, rather than a minor one?

Not in Britain, it's not.

And why make a difference between native and foreign languages if it's people's maternal language?

Seriously?

What, so I can go and make up a language now, and then demand that people speak it when I go to the shop or whatever?

If anything, there might be an argument to be made not to recognise Welsh, as there are next to no native speakers left and the language is kept alive artificially.

According to a few people I know, apparently the Welsh like to switch to it when they spot an Englishman in the vicinity.

Or English.

Come off it. The language of Britain is English. It has been for a few hundred years now. Stop playing semantics and deal with it.

So people ought to not be allowed to speak any other language then the dominant one?
So if I, for example, went to the German bakery here, I should be forced to speak English with the family that runs it?

If you speak German and they speak German, and they're willing to converse in German, there's no problem. But nobody should expect to be able to just rock up to a shop, start speaking some random language from the other side of the world and expect to get service.

Does it really matter? Okay use the most common language in most situations just for simplicity sake but if a shop owner can speak the language that a customer can then why not converse in that language? It seems like the shopkeeper, while seemingly trying to bring about unity is actually harming it and causing yet more stress for people.

Not in Britain, it's not.

Well, then what are you complaining about, if both Punjabi and Welsh are minor languages in the UK?


Seriously?

What, so I can go and make up a language now, and then demand that people speak it when I go to the shop or whatever?

Who made up a language here? They knew they were talking to someone who also spoke their first language, and addressed him in that language.


According to a few people I know, apparently the Welsh like to switch to it when they spot an Englishman in the vicinity.

Much as the Irish do. That doesn't mean that Gaelic still is a major native language here, about 90% of the population only learn it in school.

If you speak German and they speak German, and they're willing to converse in German, there's no problem. But nobody should expect to be able to just rock up to a shop, start speaking some random language from the other side of the world and expect to get service.

Have you actually READ your own article, hon?

Who made up a language here? They knew they were talking to someone who also spoke their first language, and addressed him in that language.

Ahem.

And why make a difference between native and foreign languages if it's people's maternal language?

By that logic, why the hell did my mother ever bother learning English? She should have stuck with her barbarbarbar German thing.

Much as the Irish do. That doesn't mean that Gaelic still is a major native language here, about 90% of the population only learn it in school.

And thus, reinforcing my point; everybody speaks English.

I'm fairly sure that if I were fleeing hunger, political oppression or a natural disaster, I would be unlikely to have the means to enrol in a convenient English language class before I left.

But you would have the time to enrol on state benefits when you got there?

I applaud Mr Sumarasiri's actions. I for one live in an area flooded with native Polish-speaking immigrants, the majority of whom have no intention of staying long enough to integrate, and yet claim handouts. The British government has a policy of assigning immigrants to areas depending on their nation of origin, creating large semi-foriegn neighbourhoods in otherwise English-majority towns.

I experience this policy on the recieving end, and I do not like it.

Have you actually READ your own article, hon?

The man believes that when in Britain, speak English. He's got the right idea, and nobody should expect to be able to live in a country without learning the damn language.

By that logic, why the hell did my mother ever bother learning English? She should have stuck with her barbarbarbar German thing.


Why? Was there a fair chance that the majority of people you were going to encounter speak German? Or are you just out for a good troll today again?


And thus, reinforcing my point; everybody speaks English.

Confused much?
I speak English, German and French. And I would like to remain at liberty to do so and to converse in those languages, with others who are speak those languages as well.

...nobody should expect to be able to live in a country without learning the damn language.

Seconded. This should be common decency in all nations, whether the situation is a Pakistani emigrating to Britain, or a British citizen emigrating to Russia. Have the grace to learn the language of your hosts.

The man believes that when in Britain, speak English. He's got the right idea, and nobody should expect to be able to live in a country without learning the damn language.

Well, guess what? In Britain, there are people who speak English, that's right. There are also people who speak Hindi, Urdu, German, Suaheli, French, Italian, Portuguese, Turkish, Lebanese, Tamil, Chinese, ... you name it. And what are you going to do about it?
Force people to only speak English?

The man believes that when in Britain, speak English. He's got the right idea, and nobody should expect to be able to live in a country without learning the damn language.

My dad has been here for over 20 years and has tried to learn the language but he has learning disabilities. However that hasn't stopped him from being a productive member of society, working and paying taxes and being able to survive everyday life.

Come off it. The language of Britain is English. It has been for a few hundred years now. Stop playing semantics and deal with it.
English, as a language, is not native to English British soil. I'm not the one suggesting that immigrants stop speaking one language brought by immigrants so they can speak another language brought by immigrants. English may be the language spoken by the vast majority of people here, but one cannot justify requiring people speak the 'native language' when the language in question is not the native language. Deal with it.

Seconded. This should be common decency in all nations, whether the situation is a Pakistani emigrating to Britain, or a British citizen emigrating to Russia. Have the grace to learn the language of your hosts.

That isn't the problem addressed in the article, though.
The people in question are well capable of speaking English. However, they do use their own language among themselves, which apparently is a complete and total outrage.

That isn't the problem addressed in the article, though.
The people in question are well capable of speaking English. However, they do use their own language among themselves, which apparently is a complete and total outrage.

It said that he also had this problem with Eastern Europeans, which he is clearly not. Do you deny that they should be expect to speak the common language of the state when they converse with somebody who cannot speak their language?

It said that he also had this problem with Eastern Europeans, which he is clearly not. Do you deny that they should be expect to speak the common language of the state when they converse with somebody who cannot speak their language?

Actually, it doesn't.
It simply says that he expects them to speak English with him, not that they try and talk Russian to him.

But you would have the time to enrol on state benefits when you got there?
For asylum seekers, as I was saying? Absolutely, and proud of it, and do not expect people to learn another language overnight.

I applaud Mr Sumarasiri's actions. I for one live in an area flooded with native Polish-speaking immigrants, the majority of whom have no intention of staying long enough to integrate, and yet claim handouts.
Handouts in these cases are minimal or nothing. Almost the entire benefits system is tied to national insurance payments and requires one to be in employment or, if unemployed, to have been in employment for the past two years. The cases reported in newspapers about foreigners (and Britons) living off benefits are notable because they are extraordinary rather than the norm.

The British government has a policy of assigning immigrants to areas depending on their nation of origin, creating large semi-foriegn neighbourhoods in otherwise English-majority towns.

I experience this policy on the recieving end, and I do not like it.
This has existed for centuries. people complained about Irish enclaves throughout most of the nineteenth and well into the twentieth centuries, and we have had Jewish and Chinese areas in London for a very long time without complaint. I see no reason why we ought to start now.

For asylum seekers, as I was saying? Absolutely, and proud of it, and do not expect people to learn another language overnight.

That's pathetic. My grandparents were refugees, and they learnt the language of every country they moved to.

That's pathetic. My grandparents were refugees, and they learnt the language of every country they moved to.
Way to miss the point entirely.

But you would have the time to enrol on state benefits when you got there?

I applaud Mr Sumarasiri's actions. I for one live in an area flooded with native Polish-speaking immigrants, the majority of whom have no intention of staying long enough to integrate, and yet claim handouts. The British government has a policy of assigning immigrants to areas depending on their nation of origin, creating large semi-foriegn neighbourhoods in otherwise English-majority towns.

I experience this policy on the recieving end, and I do not like it.

What, immigrants in the UK can't choose where they want to live???
They are assigned quarters???

Wow... remind me never to move to the UK, I like to pick the place where I want to live myself, thank you.

That's pathetic. My grandparents were refugees, and they learnt the language of every country they moved to.

What, before they went there?

What, before they went there?

As soon as possible when they got there.

As soon as possible when they got there.

And how do you know those Eastern Europeans you mentioned aren't making the same effort?

And how do you know those Eastern Europeans you mentioned aren't making the same effort?

They wouldn't be in the news if they were.

And good for them. However there are a minority of immigrants who for one reason or another cannot learn the language.

My point is that though learning the language of the host country is a good thing, makes things simpler plus you learn a new skill, it is not completely vital ,for someone who does not learn the language, to become be a productive member of the society.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25213217-23109,00.html



So, even this guy, who immigrated himself, says that immigrants aren't making enough of an effort to integrate. What do you have to say to that, NSG?

Racism and idiocy, even perpetrated by an immigrant who is himself a minority is...shockingly....still not okay.

Racism and idiocy, even perpetrated by an immigrant who is himself a minority is...shockingly....still not okay.

Another member of the "I'm an immigrant, give me special treatment!" mob?

They wouldn't be in the news if they were.

Also you're quoting a news site who quoted the Daily Mail who over the past couple of years have:

Said goths and emos listen to music about suicide and claim this sub culture is more like a cult.

Been sued by David Duchovny when the paper published a story saying he cheated on his wife AFTER they were told that the story was false.

Prince Charles sued the Associated Newspapers group, owners of the Daily Mail, for breach of copyright and confidentiality.

In a nutshell, The Daily Mail is one of the worst British Newspapers on sale today and print false allegations about a lot of things or anything that backs up stories that the Immigrants are the Evils!

Racism and idiocy, even perpetrated by an immigrant who is himself a minority is...shockingly....still not okay.

This.

The dominant language in Britain is English. Other languages are comparatively minor. Besides, I think it's a bit ridiculous to compare a native language like Welsh or Scots to a completely foreign one like Punjabi.
I'm not comparing them. Britain is multilingual, and English is the more widespread language. This hasn't destroyed English society. Why would immigrants speaking to other immigrants in their own language do so?
What, so I can go and make up a language now, and then demand that people speak it when I go to the shop or whatever?
Wow, way to not understand the story at all. Nobody is demanding that the shopkeeper speak their language. He is demanding that they speak English.
Come off it. The language of Britain is English. It has been for a few hundred years now. Stop playing semantics and deal with it.
The main language is. There's Welsh too. And Scots Gaelic, a little.
If you speak German and they speak German, and they're willing to converse in German, there's no problem. But nobody should expect to be able to just rock up to a shop, start speaking some random language from the other side of the world and expect to get service.
Nobody has such an expectation, and if you could just stop masturbating to the idea of an immigrant going along with your ideas of what immigrants should do then you'd realise this too.

This is what is happening: People are going into his shop, and speaking to him in his(and their) native language. He refuses to serve these people. Nobody is saying he has to speak to every customer in their native language. I, and I believe other people, are saying he's a prat for refusing to serve customers even when they speak a language he understands(other than English).
The man believes that when in Britain, speak English. He's got the right idea, and nobody should expect to be able to live in a country without learning the damn language.
How did you deduce from the article that anyone has such an expectation?
My dad has been here for over 20 years and has tried to learn the language but he has learning disabilities. However that hasn't stopped him from being a productive member of society, working and paying taxes and being able to survive everyday life.
Obviously your father should go back to where he came from.
That's pathetic. My grandparents were refugees, and they learnt the language of every country they moved to.

And did they drop their native language completely, not even speaking it to each other or other people they could reasonably expect to understand it?

Another member of the "I'm an immigrant, give me special treatment!" mob?

Rather, another of the 'you've got no right to restrict people from using their language' crowd.

What you've done is to hold up a racial minority spouting bigotry, as some sort of attempt to legitimise said bigotry. It's disingenous.

What, immigrants in the UK can't choose where they want to live???
They are assigned quarters???

Wow... remind me never to move to the UK, I like to pick the place where I want to live myself, thank you.

No...

I think he means that immigrants tend to congregate together in the same area. Its not us assigning them space, its them isolating themselves.

But yes, housing associations possibly do group them together.

On the subject of the original issue. I do not mind what languages immigrants use, but I do expect them to speak English to me whilst in the UK.

EDIT, Ok he does mean that the government assigns space, well this is news to me...

As soon as possible when they got there.
Which, given that one can't learn a new language overnight, is probably longer than the time it takes to get benefits for refugees.

They wouldn't be in the news if they were.
Why? Where does it claim that they looked at the backgrounds of customers who didn't use English and checked if they were enrolled in an English language course or otherwise fluent in English?

They wouldn't be in the news if they were.
Oh wow, how hilariously naive.
Another member of the "I'm an immigrant, give me special treatment!" mob?
Expecting to speak to someone in a language you both understand is special treatment? WTF?
Also you're quoting a news site who quoted the Daily Mail who over the past couple of years have:

Said goths and emos listen to music about suicide and claim this sub culture is more like a cult.

Been sued by David Duchovny when the paper published a story saying he cheated on his wife AFTER they were told that the story was false.

Prince Charles sued the Associated Newspapers group, owners of the Daily Mail, for breach of copyright and confidentiality.

In a nutshell, The Daily Mail is one of the worst British Newspapers on sale today and print false allegations about a lot of things or anything that backs up stories that the Immigrants are the Evils!

Don't be silly. If they say it, it must be true.

And did they drop their native language completely, not even speaking it to each other or other people they could reasonably expect to understand it?

They only spoke it among themselves. When English was required, they spoke English.

Rather, another of the 'you've got no right to restrict people from using their language' crowd.

Sounds more like "People can speak whatever they want and you have to give them service, no matter if you can understand them or not".

Which, given that one can't learn a new language overnight, is probably longer than the time it takes to get benefits for refugees.

Benefits for refugees? Hahahaha.

Expecting to speak to someone in a language you both understand is special treatment? WTF?

He doesn't want to speak that language. He wants to speak English. In England. Because he considers himself British. What's wrong with that?

They only spoke it among themselves. When English was required, they spoke English.



Sounds more like "People can speak whatever they want and you have to give them service, no matter if you can understand them or not".

In this instance English is not strictly required as the shopkeeper could understand some of the customers as they both had another language other than English in common.

Rather, another of the 'you've got no right to restrict people from using their language' crowd.

What you've done is to hold up a racial minority spouting bigotry, as some sort of attempt to legitimise said bigotry. It's disingenous.

To say the least.

While I hold strongly to the belief that immigrants should attempt to learn the language of their new country, I also understand some of the very real barriers that prevent this.

Case in point:

My primary school got a sizeable influx of refugees from Cambodia after Pol Pot's regime collapsed. The school offered English classes to the parents, who, after coming along to the first class, refused to attend any further English classes in the community. A lot of parents and teachers surmised that this was because they didn't want to assimilate and were quite scathing in their criticism.

It eventually emerged that the translator that had been hired was a former high-up in the Khmer Rouge and was well-known for authorising and practicing torture. The parents of the children believed that the English classes were staffed with Khmer Rouge people and were terrified to go to them.

Just one example of a possible explanation as to why some immigrants don't learn the language of their country.

They only spoke it among themselves. When English was required, they spoke English.
English isn't required when the person behind the counter is(or at least appears to be) an immigrant from the same place as you.

I wonder what I should do if my old German teacher were to come in to my shop and speak to me in German that I could understand?



Sounds more like "People can speak whatever they want and you have to give them service, no matter if you can understand them or not".

Because that's what you want to hear.

To say the least.

While I hold strongly to the belief that immigrants should attempt to learn the language of their new country, I also understand some of the very real barriers that prevent this.

Case in point:

My primary school got a sizeable influx of refugees from Cambodia after Pol Pot's regime collapsed. The school offered English classes to the parents, who, after coming along to the first class, refused to attend any further English classes in the community. A lot of parents and teachers surmised that this was because they didn't want to assimilate and were quite scathing in their criticism.

It eventually emerged that the translator that had been hired was a former high-up in the Khmer Rouge and was well-known for authorising and practicing torture. The parents of the children believed that the English classes were staffed with Khmer Rouge people and were terrified to go to them.

Just one example of a possible explanation as to why some immigrants don't learn the language of their country.

How often is that actually going to happen?

Wales is a different nation. It's bilingual.

Wales is an integral part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, as are England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland (though how it got that way is different). It has no official language; however, English, Irish, Ulster Scots, Scottish Gaelic, Scots, Welsh, and Cornish are recognized.

He doesn't want to speak that language. He wants to speak English. In England. Because he considered himself British. What's wrong with that?

That he managed to get a news story about being a dick to people who speak his language. I have no problem with him preferring to speak English, no more than I have a problem with his countrymen preferring to speak.......whatever. But he's refusing to serve people unless they speak English. He's being a dick about his preferences and trying to force them on other people.

First rule of business: Be nice to your customers where possible, they pay your bills.

How often is that actually going to happen?

Not often but there are other barriers...

Financially unaffordable

Learning disabilities

Time - because contrary to what you believe the vast majority of immigrants to go out and work instead of sitting on their arse claiming benefits and face time constraints like anyone else.

I always thought the Daily Mail was the New York Post of the UK.

How often is that actually going to happen?

It happened once. Once is all it takes to prove the point that there are reasons that people don't rush off to learn the language of their new land.

People are often very excited to find someone that can actually speak their language. I get very strange looks walking down the streets of Charleville with the Japanese teacher from the state school as we chatter away in Japanese, from people that don't know I am the LOTE teacher at the School of Distance Education there. Chiemi however, is delighted that she has someone to converse in her native tongue with.

I always thought the Daily Mail was the Washington Post of the UK.

It's not called the Daily Fail for nothing.

Personally I think the guy is a bit of a tool

He's trying to tell the world "Hey. I'm not an immigrant anymore, I'm British, so I'm allowed to be racist to immigrants"

Perhaps he should remember how he felt when he first went to a foreign country.

I would have had a little more sympathy if it was his own shop, but its a post office - it handles government stuff like benefits, licences and stamps. It's not his job to refuse those to anyone!!

I always thought the Daily Mail was the New York Post of the UK.

If by that you mean doesn't check sources, makes stuff up, lies, breaches contracts, hates immigrants/refugees/asylum seekers or any sub culture that is not deemed 'normal', then yes the Daily Mail is like that.

I would have had a little more sympathy if it was his own shop, but its a post office - it handles government stuff like benefits, licences and stamps. It's not his job to refuse those to anyone!!

Again, I wonder about the legality of refusing benefits to people. It's their money.....

I always thought the Daily Mail was the New York Post of the UK.

The Daily Mail is less comical and more sinister.

It's not called the Daily Fail for nothing.

Alternatively, the 'Daily Hate Mail'.

Again, I wonder about the legality of refusing benefits to people. It's their money.....

If he was not employed to speak these languages, why should it be illegal?

The Daily Mail is less comical and more sinister.



Alternatively, the 'Daily Hate Mail'.

Or the Daily Heil!

He also fails at business

He knew what these people wanted but refused to serve them on a point of principle.

In a good business, the customer comes first.

Or the Daily Heil!

This offends my eyes and ears. Heil does not rhyme with Mail.

EDIT: Stupid font is eating my pronunciation hints, bah... Heil rhymes with bile, not with mail.

This offends my eyes and ears. Heil /haIl/ does not rhyme with Mail.

Hey I didn't come up with it, I was just throwing out another nickname people use. I just stick with Daily Fail.

The dominant language in Britain is English. Other languages are comparatively minor. Besides, I think it's a bit ridiculous to compare a native language like Welsh or Scots to a completely foreign one like Punjabi.
I dunno, I bet as many people speak Punjabi and Hindi as do Scots Gaelic nowadays.

It's not his own personal little fiefdom. He better be damn sure that his employer wants their official policy to be "No English, No Service." Somehow, I doubt his employer wants to come across publicly as being so intolerant.

If by that you mean doesn't check sources, makes stuff up, lies, breaches contracts, hates immigrants/refugees/asylum seekers or any sub culture that is not deemed 'normal', then yes the Daily Mail is like that.

Well the NY Post reads like commentary not like news. They don't even try to maintain any kind of journalistic objectivity. The few times I try to read it, I end up shouting at the newspaper and looking as insane as I actually am. It has blown my cover more than once. :(

So, even this guy, who immigrated himself, says that immigrants aren't making enough of an effort to integrate. What do you have to say to that, NSG?

HIS post office? Post offices aren't property of the Royal Mail? :confused:

Btw, I hope that this guy comes to Italy on his holidays and asks me for directions in English. I'll have a lot of fun.:D

Anyway, yes, not every immigrant is making enough of an effort to integrate, that's true. I don't blame this on immigrants alone, though.
The State should provide mandatory lessons of the local official language for long-term immigrants. Also many immigrants are forced by the circumstances to live in immigrant-only areas, or to take works whose timetable actually severe them from the rest of the society.
Integration (at the very least, about official language and education of minors) should be a duty of every immigrant, and the State should provide the means to fulfill such duty.

I don't get why people dislike hearing other languages. I love it.

Why would anybody want there to be only one language spoken in their country?

I don't get why people dislike hearing other languages. I love it.

Why would anybody want there to be only one language spoken in their country?

Insecurity and pathological fear? Just a guess...

Insecurity and pathological fear? Just a guess...
In some cases, I guess.

But it was an honest question. If there's anybody from the "In Britain We Speak Only English" side that would like to answer it, I really am curious.

In some cases, I guess.

But it was an honest question. If there's anybody from the "In Britain We Speak Only English" side that would like to answer it, I really am curious.

Because why should anybody have to change their lifestyle for somebody who rocked up last week? When YOU come HERE, YOU learn OUR language. We don't change shit to accommodate you.

Because why should anybody have to change their lifestyle for somebody who rocked up last week? When YOU come HERE, YOU learn OUR language. We don't change shit to accommodate you.
I don't understand. How are you being asked to "change your lifestyle"?

As the OP so aptly demonstrates, 2nd - 3rd generation immigrants can be most against new immigrants, as if visibly making the switch from wearing one identity to putting on another, 'us' from 'them'.

By the 4th and 5th generation, they are generally assimilated, given varying resistance by the establishment.

We're a strange species.

Why would anybody want there to be only one language spoken in their country?
Because here in England most of the masses speak English and maybe 2 words of French. And the education system, until fairly recently, wasn't doing much to change that.

So you have the middle aged voters unable to speak a foreign language, and then the political parties use this as some kind of hot issue.

"Well if you plebby imbeciles can only speak English then WHY CAN'T THE IMMIGRANTS EH?"
"Yeah exactly hurrah"

As the OP so aptly demonstrates, 2nd - 3rd generation immigrants can be most against new immigrants, as if visibly making the switch from wearing one identity to putting on another, 'us' from 'them'.

By the 4th and 5th generation, they are generally assimilated, given varying resistance by the establishment.

We're a strange species.

Hey, my family friggen integrated. What, so we're bad guys now, because we actually assimilated into the country and adopted their languages and customs, and the guys who speak their gibberish and protest against free speech and kill their women for not wearing tents are heroes?

Hey, my family friggen integrated.

And then you'd know it takes time. It's not like the immigrant enters a country and suddenly, BAM!, they can speak the language, know everything about the local culture etc.

Hey, my family friggen integrated.

As Germans they 'integrated' into Australia - is that correct?

They integrated from a West European Christian country into a land populated by West European Christian people?

...or did they integrate with Aboriginals?

Hey, my family friggen integrated. What, so we're bad guys now, because we actually assimilated into the country and adopted their languages and customs, and the guys who speak their gibberish and protest against free speech and kill their women for not wearing tents are heroes?

Yes because other languages are signs of idiocy and gibberish and backwards thinking. I think I know your stances fairly well from this one sentence...

Because here in England most of the masses speak English and maybe 2 words of French. And the education system, until fairly recently, wasn't doing much to change that.

So you have the middle aged voters unable to speak a foreign language, and then the political parties use this as some kind of hot issue.

"Well if you plebby imbeciles can only speak English then WHY CAN'T THE IMMIGRANTS EH?"
"Yeah exactly hurrah"
Weird.

I've never met an immigrant who wasn't at least trying to learn the dominant language of their new home nation. Some of them have already reached fluency. Some are still working on it. They're not going to learn any faster if you scream at them. They'll probably just get flustered. That's what happens to me when I'm trying to form a sentence in my terrible Spanish and somebody starts mocking my accent or getting mad about my poor grammar.

Jings crivens man, am I nae no gettin ma paper cos I dinnie speak yon Queens English?

I dunno, I bet as many people speak Punjabi and Hindi as do Scots Gaelic nowadays.
I'd reckon there's far more native Punjabi or Hindi speakers than Scots Gaelic ones.

We don't change shit to accommodate you.
Uh, yes we do.

That's what multicultural societies are all about. You may have noticed some rather big changes in UK society since, well, ever; the society constantly changes to accommodate and assimilate others.

That's why chicken tikka masala is the UK's national dish, and one of the biggest UK artists is M.I.A. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQmLWi5mv-U)

We lap it up.

As Germans they 'integrated' into Australia - is that correct?

Ukrainians, actually.

Yes because other languages are signs of idiocy and gibberish and backwards thinking. I think I know your stances fairly well from this one sentence...

I also called my mother's language gibberish, if you didn't notice.

Hey, my family friggen integrated. What, so we're bad guys now, because we actually assimilated into the country and adopted their languages and customs, and the guys who speak their gibberish and protest against free speech and kill their women for not wearing tents are heroes?
Who is saying you're a bad guy?

Seriously, could you quote who is saying that?

Uh, yes we do.

That's what multicultural societies are all about. You may have noticed some rather big changes in UK society since, well, ever; the society constantly changes to accommodate and assimilate others.

That's why chicken tikka masala is the UK's national dish, and one of the biggest UK artists is M.I.A. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQmLWi5mv-U)

We lap it up.

That's pathetic.

How the hell did you ever become a world superpower? Your history should be revoked.

Ukrainians, actually.



I also called my mother's language gibberish, if you didn't notice.

So German is gibberish? Only English is a non gibberish language?

That's pathetic.

How the hell did you ever become a world superpower? Your history should be revoked.

Why? Because we're a nation that is constantly changing for the better? More equality and acceptance? Oh no! The horror!

That's pathetic.

How the hell did you ever become a world superpower? Your history should be revoked.
Erm.

If their culture works that way and they've become a world superpower, then maybe you should consider that their culture, you know, works?

Ukrainians, actually.

Colour me corrected.

Given you're an immigrant, given the land you live in is ruled by immigrants, how many 4th generation Australians do you know who don't identify themselves as Australian?

Surely we give people a chance?

Some might even venture to comment that other cultures actually enrich our own, but let's not talk hippy here.

Who is saying you're a bad guy?

Seriously, could you quote who is saying that?

As the OP so aptly demonstrates, 2nd - 3rd generation immigrants can be most against new immigrants, as if visibly making the switch from wearing one identity to putting on another, 'us' from 'them'.

By the 4th and 5th generation, they are generally assimilated, given varying resistance by the establishment.

We're a strange species.

I found that pretty insulting.

That's pathetic.
You languish in the land of whites-only cloud-cuckoo land.

I'm perfectly happy living in a vibrant, diverse society.

So German is gibberish? Only English is a non gibberish language?

Have you ever heard Alemannic German?

Why? Because we're a nation that is constantly changing for the better? More equality and acceptance? Oh no! The horror!

Better? Ha!

Erm.

If their culture works that way and they've become a world superpower, then maybe you should consider that their culture, you know, works?

They're not a superpower any more.

They're not a superpower any more.

You know, if you look at the current superpower, you will find even more cultural diversity than even the UK can boast at the moment... and way, way, WAY more languages.

Have you ever heard Alemannic German?



Better? Ha!



They're not a superpower any more.

I know!

Equality Opportunities?

More tolerance and acceptance?

Celebration of different cultures?

Oh wait, that's your idea of a nightmare.

You know, if you look at the current superpower, you will find even more cultural diversity than even the UK can boast at the moment... and way, way, WAY more languages.

I thought they mostly just spoke Mandarin.

I know!

Equality Opportunities?

More tolerance and acceptance?

Celebration of different cultures?

Oh wait, that's your idea of a nightmare.

Yes, because it's leftist bullshit.

Enjoy your coming anarchy.

So German is gibberish? Only English is a non gibberish language?

English is the only language in which I am fluent. It is my mother tongue, and I think it's generally lovely.

But.

It is absolutely and completely badshit fucking insane for anybody to claim that English is the only non-gibberish language, since English itself is a mishmash of a whole pile of languages that have been tossed together without regard for common sense.

Example:

"Colonel."

From the Italian colonello, commander of a column of troops, which in turn derives from colonna, column. Four hundred years ago, it was spelt "coronel" (which was, itself, a spelling derived from how the Spanish spelt it), and was pronounced as spelt. Over time the pronunciation became slightly corrupted, to "ker-nel."

But then somebody decided that "colonel" ought to be spelt in a manner consistent with its Italian origin. The change in spelling was implemented, while the pronunciation was unchanged.

So we now have an "English" word that is spelt like the Italians spelt it and pronounced the way the British came to mispronounce how the Spanish said it.

I thought they mostly just spoke Mandarin.

*lol
You might want to think again... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_China

Better? Ha!
...
Yes, because it's leftist bullshit.
With deft argumentation like the above, how could anyone think you were in the wrong?

I thought they mostly just spoke Mandarin.
Then you're badly informed; there's rakes of languages spoken in China.

Yes, because it's leftist bullshit.

Enjoy your coming anarchy.

Ok.... then what exactly is your problem with militant Muslims? By the sound of it, their ideas are right up your alley?

I know!

Equality Opportunities?

More tolerance and acceptance?

Celebration of different cultures?

Oh wait, that's your idea of a nightmare.

Wait, I've got a better response.

Yeah, that's what we need. More guys from Africa who think they're Tupac or 50 Cent and like to stab each other. Tolerance, fuck yeah!

Yes, because it's leftist bullshit.

Enjoy your coming anarchy.

Hmm, there isn't any evidence of any upcoming anarchy. Enjoy your pessimistic viewpoint on life.

Wait, I've got a better response.

Yeah, that's what we need. More guys from Africa who think they're Tupac or 50 Cent and like to stab each other. Tolerance, fuck yeah!

Racism! Fuck Yeah!

Oh wait.

I found that pretty insulting.
Ok, so you found it insulting. But where does it say that you are a bad guy for assimilating?

The closest I can find is that people think it's pretty crummy of 4th or 5th generation immigrants to be nasty toward more recent immigrants. I don't see how that qualifies as calling you a bad guy for assimilating.

*lol
You might want to think again... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_China

Even so. The admin would mostly speak Mandarin. That's why the standardised national language exists, to aid national unity.

It happened the same way in Germany; that's why you're not dancing around a fire in your underwear speaking your gobbledegook language.

Wait, I've got a better response.

Yeah, that's what we need. More guys from Africa who think they're Tupac or 50 Cent and like to stab each other. Tolerance, fuck yeah!

Most of the people currently stabbing each other in London have never even been to Africa, much less are African. There's plenty of white kids who like to think their gangsters as well, you know.

Most of the people currently stabbing each other in London have never even been to Africa, much less are African. There's plenty of white kids who like to think their gangsters as well, you know.

I was using a reference from Australia, where we cop the same multicultural bullshit as the rest of the Western world.

Even so. The admin would mostly speak Mandarin. That's why the standardised national language exists, to aid national unity.

It happened the same way in Germany; that's why you're not dancing around a fire in your underwear speaking your gobbledegook language.

And that means that nobody else should be allowed to speak anything but the state-approved language?

Seriously, grow up. I know you think you're awfully witty, but trust me, you aren't.

And that means that nobody else should be allowed to speak anything but the state-approved language?

Seriously, grow up.

I'd prefer if they'd try not to. Some of those languages are embarrassing. Especially in Germany.

I was using a reference from Australia, where we cop the same multicultural bullshit as the rest of the Western world.

And I'm sure society is falling down around your ears, much as people have claimed in various parts of the world for several hundred years. The steady decline into the end of civilization sure takes a long time, doesn't it?

I'd prefer if they'd try not to. Some of those languages are embarrassing. Especially in Germany.

So they should try not to speak the official language?
You are starting to make me chuckle now...

Enjoy your coming anarchy.
I will.

Yeah, that's what we need. More guys from Africa who think they're Tupac or 50 Cent and like to stab each other. Tolerance, fuck yeah!
We can't leave out a wee bash at the niggers, can we now?

I'd prefer if they'd try not to. Some of those languages are embarrassing. Especially in Germany.

You never answered my original question, really.

Why do you care?

You said that you don't want to have to "change your lifestyle," but nobody is asking you to. You don't have to learn their languages if you don't want. You can continue speaking only the language(s) that you want. Why does it bother you if other people choose to speak another language?

I thought they mostly just spoke Mandarin.

Lol Rusty, you sure are funny.

So they should try not to speak the official language?
You are starting to make me chuckle now...

Are they embarrassing because you doint understand them? Or because you don't like the sound or pronunciation? I'm genuinely curious.

And I'm sure society is falling down around your ears

Increased violence, American-style gang warfare, govt. censorship. Looks like we're right on track.

Increased violence, American-style gang warfare, govt. censorship. Looks like we're right on track.
And you believe that forcing people to all speak English will fix these problems?

Increased violence, American-style gang warfare, govt. censorship. Looks like we're right on track.

I dunno. Compared to a time when civil wars, slavery, lynchings, a period when there was more censorship, we're doing alright.

There has never been a golden age where society hit perfection.

Increased violence, American-style gang warfare, govt. censorship. Looks like we're right on track.

And speaking English will magically get rid of all these problems, right?

You never answered my original question, really.

Why do you care?

You said that you don't want to have to "change your lifestyle," but nobody is asking you to. You don't have to learn their languages if you don't want. You can continue speaking only the language(s) that you want. Why does it bother you if other people choose to speak another language?

Because eventually, there'll be more of them than there are of us. Then we'll have to speak their language, and we won't be able to do this and that, and this is banned, and that is illegal, and before you know it we've jumped right back into the dark ages.

So they should try not to speak the official language?
You are starting to make me chuckle now...

Standard High German; learn it, love it, because the other rubbish you're speaking is obsolete.

Because eventually, there'll be more of them than there are of us. Then we'll have to speak their language, and we won't be able to do this and that, and this is banned, and that is illegal, and before you know it we've jumped right back into the dark ages.

So, because you don't want to learn their language or have things banned, you want to ban their language first?

I'm just trying to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.

And speaking English will magically get rid of all these problems, right?
Of course!

Speaking English makes it physically impossible for you to commit a crime.

Increased violence, American-style gang warfare, govt. censorship. Looks like we're right on track.

Unlike a century ago when Australia had plenty of violence, including gang warfare, and tight government control over what you were allowed to do.

Standard High German; learn it, love it, because the other rubbish you're speaking is obsolete.

What, English?

I dunno. Compared to a time when civil wars, slavery, lynchings, a period when there was more censorship, we're doing alright.

There has never been a golden age where society hit perfection.

That's convenient; it'll never be any good, so why bother trying?

Now if only Rosetta Stone Software were available in all public libraries, and on the computers this problem would not be quite so persistent. As well, those who could not manage to use it (as I imagine there would be a flood and lack of availability) would learn from those who could.

Living in America, I have noticed that nearly all public schools offer Spanish (primarily) as well as Italian and French. Those being the languages of the most common immigrants to this country. Oh, we have lots of English courses as well. And thinking back, all the foreign kids were better at it than the American ones.

I also notice that on nearly everything I buy, both Spanish and English, an opportunity for someone speaking either language to learn the other.

I seem to remember Rome being a country of immigrants. 1000 years and what was probably the most advanced society to ever exist says something for that I would think, especially as Latin dominated anyway. I also seem to remember their unwillingness to learn other languages causing persecution and even slavery of those who could not speak Latin.

I seem to remember America being a nation of Immigrants. I am quite sure all of those immigrants have learned English by now. But if not, their kids did.

My point is, who gives a shit? What is arguing going to do but make immigrants resent you? I would think at the least, if learning a new language is so easy, you would have the decency to learn the language of the flood of immigrants coming to your country, if only to confirm your accusations of them having the belief that they do not need to learn the language, and the many others that have been stated her.

Should not national pride extend beyond the language spoken their? How many forms of English have their been? It seems to me that every time I pick up a book from a different decade I am reading a slightly different language. How about we fight for something more permanent or possibly important, such as why these damned immigrants get the health benefits that I deserve. The food stamps that I need, or the jobs that I cannot get because I live in legal housing and therefore need more money to pay for it than them. But, I do hope that you guys are not that fickle.

Thoughts?

Because eventually, there'll be more of them than there are of us. Then we'll have to speak their language, and we won't be able to do this and that, and this is banned, and that is illegal, and before you know it we've jumped right back into the dark ages.



Standard High German; learn it, love it, because the other rubbish you're speaking is obsolete.

Oh the Us vs Them mentality. The fear of the 'Other'. How do you know those same fears won't be true if you start people forcing to speak English. Keyword: Forcing.

You're basically preaching what you fear.

That's convenient; it'll never be any good, so why bother trying?

Not quite : It's better now than it has been in a long time, and it's actually improving.

What, English?

No, whatever cute little dialect I'm sure you were raised on.

Unlike a century ago when Australia had plenty of violence, including gang warfare, and tight government control over what you were allowed to do.

Yeah, pretty much.

That's convenient; it'll never be any good, so why bother trying?

I didn't say there won't be one, it's possible. I said there hasn't been one. Comprehension is your friend.

That's convenient; it'll never be any good, so why bother trying?
That's not at all what I read in his post. He was simply pointing out that we've improved, but no society is perfect.

Because eventually, there'll be more of them than there are of us. Then we'll have to speak their language, and we won't be able to do this and that, and this is banned, and that is illegal, and before you know it we've jumped right back into the dark ages.
Do you genuinely believe this pish?

Your life must be a living hell; constantly paranoid, running from the first sign of a curry, unable to talk to anyone but Whitey for fear of getting stabbed...

Let me tell you lad, life's much more fun if you inject reality into it.

Oh the Us vs Them mentality. The fear of the 'Other'. How do you know those same fears won't be true if you start people forcing to speak English. Keyword: Forcing.

You're basically preaching what you fear.

Yes, this is what I'm currently laughing my ass off about.
He's so funny, isn't he? I know I shouldn't be feeding trolls, but it's just irresistable

Yeah, pretty much.

So you're saying that you have the same problems now that you did back then? That's not a decline, that's the status quo.

No, whatever cute little dialect I'm sure you were raised on.


Ok... and instead I should speak official German? In Ireland? Care to explain that one?

Because eventually, there'll be more of them than there are of us. Then we'll have to speak their language, and we won't be able to do this and that, and this is banned, and that is illegal, and before you know it we've jumped right back into the dark ages.
Well done. You've managed to turn the thin end of the wedge into the thin end of the entire Khyber Pass.

So you're saying that you have the same problems now that you did back then? That's not a decline, that's the status quo.

I'm saying that we didn't have those things. Yeah, that's decline.

Ok... and instead I should speak official German? In Ireland? Care to explain that one?

Don't be a smart ass.

I can't even remember what my point was.

Your life must be a living hell; constantly paranoid, running from the first sign of a curry, unable to talk to anyone but Whitey for fear of getting stabbed...

When you have actually been stabbed by someone who chose not to integrate, like I have, that will make a lot more sense to you.

Do you genuinely believe this pish?

Your life must be a living hell; constantly paranoid, running from the first sign of a curry, unable to talk to anyone but Whitey for fear of getting stabbed...

Let me tell you lad, life's much more fun if you inject reality into it.
I guess Cabra's original answer to my question was accurate. That's...bizarre.

I don't understand why learning a foreign language would bother somebody so much. I rather like being able to communicate with people. I like learning new slang terms that people have come up with, I like learning regional dialects, and I like hearing unusual accents. I enjoy having a diversity of languages around me, from a purely aesthetic perspective, and I also enjoy being able to talk with people who have different backgrounds.

I can understand if not everyone enjoys languages as much as I do, but it's really odd to encounter somebody who seems to believe that learning a foreign language is intrinsically BAD. As if it would be a punishment to be able to speak with people from another country.

It's also kind of sad to see how scared Rusty seems to be. This notion that people who speak a different language will try to attack you and ban your language...why on Earth would you think that? All the immigrants I've encountered are simply looking to go about their lives. They're not some hostile invading force. They're just foreign people who are adjusting to a new home. So?

Don't be a smart ass.

I can't even remember what my point was.


So close to being a new sig.... sooooooo close.

That's pathetic.
So's your face. HAH.
How the hell did you ever become a world superpower?
By being the best at finding what's good in every culture and ripping it off mercilessly for our own profit.

It's also kind of sad to see how scared Rusty seems to be. This notion that people who speak a different language will try to attack you and ban your language...why on Earth would you think that? All the immigrants I've encountered are simply looking to go about their lives. They're not some hostile invading force. They're just foreign people who are adjusting to a new home. So?

Hahahaha bullshit. How do you explain all the Africans? They go around, thinking they're African-American, forming gangs and fighting each other and robbing people at train stations.

By being the best at finding what's good in every culture and ripping it off mercilessly for our own profit.

No you didn't. You sailed around the world, finding inferior cultures, and then shot at them until they submitted.

Hahahaha bullshit. How do you explain all the Africans? They go around, thinking they're African-American, forming gangs and fighting each other and robbing people at train stations.

Source.

Hahahaha bullshit. How do you explain all the Africans? They go around, thinking they're African-American, forming gangs and fighting each other and robbing people at train stations.
Perhaps you aren't familiar with the term, but most "African-Americans" are not immigrants.

I guess Cabra's original answer to my question was accurate. That's...bizarre.

I don't understand why learning a foreign language would bother somebody so much. I rather like being able to communicate with people. I like learning new slang terms that people have come up with, I like learning regional dialects, and I like hearing unusual accents. I enjoy having a diversity of languages around me, from a purely aesthetic perspective, and I also enjoy being able to talk with people who have different backgrounds.

I can understand if not everyone enjoys languages as much as I do, but it's really odd to encounter somebody who seems to believe that learning a foreign language is intrinsically BAD. As if it would be a punishment to be able to speak with people from another country.

It's also kind of sad to see how scared Rusty seems to be. This notion that people who speak a different language will try to attack you and ban your language...why on Earth would you think that? All the immigrants I've encountered are simply looking to go about their lives. They're not some hostile invading force. They're just foreign people who are adjusting to a new home. So?

I had a feeling I wasn't far off... the behaviour displayed by Rusty here is usually based on pathological fear. In his case, I assume that this fear is based on an overwhelming feeling of insecurity about his own identity, projected out as hatred towards those who seem at ease with who they are.

He isn't the first of his kind that I came across, and it's a pattern I noted in all of them.
It would be sad, if he wasn't so entertaining.

Hahahaha bullshit. How do you explain all the Africans? They go around, thinking they're African-American, forming gangs and fighting each other and robbing people at train stations.

http://politicsoffthegrid.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/mandela.jpg

http://www.britannica.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/obama.jpg

Yeah look at those Gangsta's!

Well done. You've managed to turn the thin end of the wedge into the thin end of the entire Khyber Pass.
http://www.billythefish.com/mediac/400_0/media/Corporal~Jones.jpg



I can't even remember what my point was.
To be fair, I don't really think you had one to begin with.

When you have actually been stabbed by someone who chose not to integrate, like I have, that will make a lot more sense to you.
The person who stabbed you, were they every single immigrant ever?

No? Then you have no argument.



I don't understand why learning a foreign language would bother somebody so much. I rather like being able to communicate with people. I like learning new slang terms that people have come up with, I like learning regional dialects, and I like hearing unusual accents. I enjoy having a diversity of languages around me, from a purely aesthetic perspective, and I also enjoy being able to talk with people who have different backgrounds.
Exactly.

My life is enriched by the variety around me. Living in an integrated, multicultural environment is delightful, and the fact I can hear a dozen or so different languages while walking down the street only increases said delight.



By being the best at finding what's good in every culture and ripping it off mercilessly for our own profit.
Do you have a flag?

Source.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21164506-2,00.html
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,24994054-2702,00.html
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,25105398-421,00.html?from=communities

http://www.billythefish.com/mediac/400_0/media/Corporal~Jones.jpg




To be fair, I don't really think you had one to begin with.


The person who stabbed you, were they every single immigrant ever?

No? Then you have no argument.




Exactly.

My life is enriched by the variety around me. Living in an integrated, multicultural environment is delightful, and the fact I can hear a dozen or so different languages while walking down the street only increases said delight.




Do you have a flag?

We don't need a bloody flag. This is our country, you bastards!

Perhaps you aren't familiar with the term, but most "African-Americans" are not immigrants.

I was talking about Australia.

I had a feeling I wasn't far off... the behaviour displayed by Rusty here is usually based on pathological fear. In his case, I assume that this fear is based on an overwhelming feeling of insecurity about his own identity, projected out as hatred towards those who seem at ease with who they are.

He isn't the first of his kind that I came across, and it's a pattern I noted in all of them.
It would be sad, if he wasn't so entertaining.

It is an attitude I've encountered before, as well, but I think this is one of those things that I don't really "get," deep down. Like racism. I understand it, cerebrally, but I don't get it, viscerally.

But this is probably because I grew up as a member of the dominant ethnic group in my country, so I've never been in a position of having my ethnicity constantly under attack. I've never felt insecure about my heritage or my culture, probably because I wasn't brought up to place much significance on my ethnic heritage (I'm a Euro-mutt).

I think there are just some things I won't ever be able to really empathize with.

I'm saying that we didn't have those things. Yeah, that's decline.

So Australia didn't have roving bands of robbers and murderers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Kelly)? Or ban books that were considered blasphemous (http://www.abc.net.au/ola/citizen/stories/trans/program9.htm)?

Your lack of knowledge of Australian history is terrible. Immigrants like you who don't know the history of your country are what's wrong with Australia.

-snip-
WHAARRGARBL!!!

We don't need a bloody flag. This is our country, you bastards!

Thems the rules.

I was talking about Australia.
Now I'm REALLY confused.

There are "African-Americans" in Australia? Are these people who moved from Africa to America and thence to Australia?

So Australia didn't have roving bands of robbers and murderers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Kelly)? Or ban books that were considered blasphemous (http://www.abc.net.au/ola/citizen/stories/trans/program9.htm)?

Your lack of knowledge of Australian history is terrible. Immigrants like you who don't know the history of your country are what's wrong with Australia.

First off, Ned Kelly died in 1880. In the late 1800s, you had these kinds of guys roaming around just about every country in the world.

Second, Australia has always had heavy de jure censorship laws. Nobody cares.

Now I'm REALLY confused.

There are "African-Americans" in Australia? Are these people who moved from Africa to America and thence to Australia?

I think as minorities go, they would be a REALLY small one.

Now I'm REALLY confused.

There are "African-Americans" in Australia? Are these people who moved from Africa to America and thence to Australia?

They're Africans. They came here, mostly as refugees. Now they think that they're gangstas and like to form gangs and bash people.

First off, Ned Kelly died in 1880. In the late 1800s, you had these kinds of guys roaming around just about every country in the world.

Indeed. My point remains; violent criminals then, violent criminals now. Not a decline.

Second, Australia has always had heavy de jure censorship laws. Nobody cares.

Apparently you do, because you mentioned censorship as part of Australia's decline. Once again, censorship then, censorship now. Not a decline.

Because eventually, there'll be more of them than there are of us. Then we'll have to speak their language, and we won't be able to do this and that, and this is banned, and that is illegal, and before you know it we've jumped right back into the dark ages.



Second, Australia has always had heavy de jure censorship laws. Nobody cares.

I'm sorry. I thought you did.

They're Africans. They came here, mostly as refugees. Now they think that they're gangstas and like to form gangs and bash people.
So where does the "American" part come in? They're African-Australians, right?

Indeed. My point remains; violent criminals then, violent criminals now. Not a decline.

Ahh, the Americans viewpoint. "If it's broke, let's go get drunk".

Apparently you do, because you mentioned censorship as part of Australia's decline. Once again, censorship then, censorship now. Not a decline.

It's actually enforced now, so yes, decline.

So where does the "American" part come in? They're African-Australians, right?

They THINK that they're African-Americans.

Do you have a flag?
What a Union Jack? No, don't be silly.

They THINK that they're African-Americans.
I'm going to need some kind of source on this. I have a hard time believing that there is any significant population of African immigrants living in Australia who think that they are African-Americans.

for he's a jolly good fellow!!! which no body can deny !!1

Ahh, the Americans viewpoint. "If it's broke, let's go get drunk".
Again, are you actually having trouble reading people's posts, or is this deliberate dishonesty?

His post said that criminals existed before, and there are still criminals today, thus your claim that crime is a recent invention does not hold water. Nowhere did he say anything about what SHOULD be done about this, nor did he in any way suggest that we should be complicit about crime.

You are either failing to comprehend people's posts (perhaps a language barrier exists...?) or you are intentionally lying.

They THINK that they're African-Americans.

So...... now you're just complaining about the MTV culture and influence of the American lifestyle.

....what's this got to do with the Sri Lankan in the Post Office in Nottingham now? *scratches head*

I'm going to need some kind of source on this. I have a hard time believing that there is any significant population of African immigrants living in Australia who think that they are African-Americans.

I live here. They walk around listening to hip-hop with their pants halfway down and threaten people.

I live here. They walk around listening to hip-hop with their pants halfway down and threaten people.
So...no source?

Ahh, the Americans viewpoint. "If it's broke, let's go get drunk".

I'm not saying it shouldn't be fixed, I'm saying there's not been a decline towards anarchy. Two very different things.

It's actually enforced now, so yes, decline.

Making it illegal to publish and distribute banned books is also enforced censorship.

Again, are you actually having trouble reading people's posts, or is this deliberate dishonesty?

His post said that criminals existed before, and there are still criminals today, thus your claim that crime is a recent invention does not hold water. Nowhere did he say anything about what SHOULD be done about this, nor did he in any way suggest that we should be complicit about crime.

You are either failing to comprehend people's posts (perhaps a language barrier exists...?) or you are intentionally lying.

Yeah, because it's not at all possible that we had very low levels of gang crime a few years ago and now it's spiked again. No, that couldn't have happened at all.

So...no source?

I posted some links about gang activity. You'll have to take my word for it when I say that they imitate African-American street culture.

So...... now you're just complaining about the MTV culture and influence of the American lifestyle.

....what's this got to do with the Sri Lankan in the Post Office in Nottingham now? *scratches head*
I thiiiiiiiink, if I'm following him, his argument is that African-Australians are emulating an American subculture and this is proof of the harm done when immigrants refuse to learn the dominant language of their new home country.

However, for this to work, Australia needs to have a dominant language that is not English. I have never been to Australia so I don't know if this is the case.

Because eventually, there'll be more of them than there are of us. Then we'll have to speak their language, and we won't be able to do this and that, and this is banned, and that is illegal, and before you know it we've jumped right back into the dark ages.



Second, Australia has always had heavy de jure censorship laws. Nobody cares.

I'm sorry. I thought you did.

Well. Are you trying to doublethink?

Yeah, because it's not at all possible that we had very low levels of gang crime a few years ago and now it's spiked again. No, that couldn't have happened at all.

If you think anarchy is coming every time there's a spike in crime its probably best you weren't living in Australia when you had real outlaws. You'd have had your sandwich board out declaring the end is nigh.

You'll have to take my word for it when I said that they imitate African-American street culture.
I don't, really, but even if I take your word for it that kind of undermines your original point, doesn't it?

I mean, your original beef was with immigrants who won't assimilate, but now you're angry because African immigrants are assimilating too much...

They THINK that they're African-Americans.

you've discovered our plan. we are planning to take over Australia with them.
Abort abort!!!!

I thiiiiiiiink, if I'm following him, his argument is that African-Australians are emulating an American subculture and this is proof of the harm done when immigrants refuse to learn the dominant language of their new home country.

However, for this to work, Australia needs to have a dominant language that is not English. I have never been to Australia so I don't know if this is the case.

Nonsense.

I think it's just his subversive way of blaming the US for all the ills. :tongue:

Just a question, does anybody on this forum think that the Western cultures and the ideals of freedom, security and enlightenment are worth keeping? Anybody? Or are these just throwaway things for you guys? Do you figure that society is cyclical and that even if we fuck it up, we'll just end up back here again in a few millennia?

I mean, your original beef was with immigrants who won't assimilate, but now you're angry because African immigrants are assimilating too much...

Assimilating too much? This is not America, and maybe you don't see it through your American arrogance, but nobody here except those immigrants want us to be the US.

Just a question, does anybody on this forum think that the Western cultures and the ideals of freedom, security and enlightenment are worth keeping?

Why bother asking this? You know that it's perfectly possible to like Western culture while also liking other cultures. You also know that freedom, security, and enlightenment are not values unique to Western culture. You know exactly how everyone will respond. Why play stupid? Do you feel that appearing stupid will somehow help your case?

Just a question, does anybody on this forum think that the Western cultures and the ideals of freedom, security and enlightenment are worth keeping? Anybody? Or are these just throwaway things for you guys? Do you figure that society is cyclical and that even if we fuck it up, we'll just end up back here again in a few millennia?

Which has what to do with a Sri Lankan refusing to serve customers in Nottingham?

Humour me.

Just a question, does anybody on this forum think that the Western cultures and the ideals of freedom, security and enlightenment are worth keeping? Anybody? Or are these just throwaway things for you guys? Do you figure that society is cyclical and that even if we fuck it up, we'll just end up back here again in a few millennia?

Well from your posts you seem to be arguing against freedom and enlightenment. You argue that tolerance and acceptance is a bad thing, which stem from enlightenment. You argue that forcing people to speak English is a good thing, taking away freedom of choice and speech.

Seriously, actually have clear views on the subject instead of changing it every few minutes.

Assimilating too much? This is not America, and maybe you don't see it through your American arrogance, but nobody here except those immigrants want us to be the US.
So your problem is that the immigrants are assimilating too much, but they're assimilating to the wrong culture.

Ok.

So which culture do you want them to assimilate to? Aboriginal, colonial, or something else?

Why bother asking this? You know that it's perfectly possible to like Western culture while also liking other cultures. You also know that freedom, security, and enlightenment are not values unique to Western culture. You know exactly how everyone will respond. Why play stupid? Do you feel that appearing stupid will somehow help your case?

I'm just curious about how nobody on this forum has any sense of culture self-preservation whatsoever.

Just a question, does anybody on this forum think that the Western cultures and the ideals of freedom, security and enlightenment are worth keeping? Anybody? Or are these just throwaway things for you guys? Do you figure that society is cyclical and that even if we fuck it up, we'll just end up back here again in a few millennia?

We do, certainly. That's why we don't like you argueing and fighting against them.

We do, certainly. That's why we don't like you argueing and fighting against them.

Me? You're the one who wants to import every nutter who wants to come over here and replace it with their backwards shite.

No wonder you come from a country full of fucking Nazis. No goddamn idea, any of you.

So your problem is that the immigrants are assimilating too much, but they're assimilating to the wrong culture.

Ok.

So which culture do you want them to assimilate to? Aboriginal, colonial, or something else?

Australian? That's a thought.

Well from your posts you seem to be arguing against freedom and enlightenment. You argue that tolerance and acceptance is a bad thing, which stem from enlightenment. You argue that forcing people to speak English is a good thing, taking away freedom of choice and speech.

Seriously, actually have clear views on the subject instead of changing it every few minutes.

Like I said, it's just a language barrier between us and Rusty. Some translation is all that is required:

Freedom = banning all languages and cultures other than that which is in the majority.

Enlightenment = xenophobia.

Security = living in constant terror of the immigrant hordes who will conquer you from within.

Me? You're the one who wants to import every nutter who wants to come over here and replace it with their backwards shite.

Care to quote where I or anybody else in this discussion have said that?
Or do you just want us to leave now and let you fight your strawmen in peace?

Australian? That's a thought.
So, aboriginal?

Like I said, it's just a language barrier between us and Rusty. Some translation is all that is required:

Freedom = banning all languages and cultures other than that which is in the majority.

Enlightenment = xenophobia.

Security = living in constant terror of the immigrant hordes who will conquer you from within.

That seems a pretty good summary...

Just a question, does anybody on this forum think that the Western cultures and the ideals of freedom, security and enlightenment are worth keeping?
Probably everyone.

Most of us just recognise that the vast, vast, majority of immigrants contribute to and enhance "Western cultures and the ideals of freedom, security and enlightenment". Further, that the ideals of the enlightenment include tolerance and a respect for diversity; something which you apparently need to read up on.

All in all, I'd hope you were actually trolling, rather than being in the sorry state of actually believing half the shite you post.

I'm just curious about how nobody on this forum has any sense of culture self-preservation whatsoever.

Why should I? Culture in my country has changed radically in 50 years even without much immigration. I also consider it to have improved.

I'm just curious about how nobody on this forum has any sense of culture self-preservation whatsoever.

Culture self preservation is bullshit. You, yourself, do not like your German heritage and so it is reasonable to assume you do not like German culture. You have assimilated into a new culture which is a mix of many cultures. That's why Australia is a multi cultural nation.

And yet you even argue against this. You're not happy with one culture and you're not happy with a mix either.

I'm just curious about how nobody on this forum has any sense of culture self-preservation whatsoever.
Ahhhhh, I see the confusion.

You believe that you must constantly fight to preserve your culture. I don't. My culture has existed and endured for centuries while being openly--sometimes aggressively--multicultural. I'm not worried about my culture dying out or being lost through contact with foreign cultures.

In other words, my culture can't be harmed by contact with other cultures, so I don't need to "preserve" my culture by blocking all outside influences.

If your culture is really that fragile, then I'm very sorry. I can understand why you'd be so nervous about all of this.

Alright, so if it's ok for immigrants to come here and do what they like, does that mean I can get the old gang back together?

My new working theory:

Those who rant about how multiculturalism will destroy The West are simply people who've never found a really good Indian restaurant.

Multiculturalism is delicious. FACT.

...does that mean I can get the old gang back together?
Pray tell what the 'old gang' is.

Alright, so if it's ok for immigrants to come here and do what they like, does that mean I can get the old gang back together?

None of us are saying its okay for immigrants go to another country and do what they like. I'm sure we're all in agreement that when an immigrant enters that country, they follow that country's laws. There is nothing there that they have to follow the mass culture as well as long as they live within the law.

Alright, so if it's ok for immigrants to come here and do what they like, does that mean I can get the old gang back together?

Again, who said that?

Alright, so if it's ok for immigrants to come here and do what they like, does that mean I can get the old gang back together?
Do you really think anyone will care?

Unless you are planning to intentionally go out and make asses of yourselves, thereby intentionally FORCING other people to pay attention to you, I strongly doubt that anybody will care if you get together with people who agree with you.

Pray tell what the 'old gang' is.

Immigrant guys who do "stuff".

Immigrant guys who do "stuff".
Do you want to?

I thought you were part of a better culture. One which believes in freedom and enlightenment. Are you now saying that your culture would go out and do bad "stuff"?

My new working theory:

Those who rant about how multiculturalism will destroy The West are simply people who've never found a really good Indian restaurant.

Multiculturalism is delicious. FACT.
Frankly, as long as I still can get a good Saag Paneer, folks can destroy the West.

Do you want to?

I thought you were part of a better culture. One which believes in freedom and enlightenment. Are you now saying that your culture would go out and do bad "stuff"?

Hey, if it's good for the Africans, it's good for us, huh?

Hey, if it's good for the Africans, it's good for us, huh?
Ahh, the "they started it" defense. Truly the mark of a civilized mind.

Hey, if it's good for the Africans, it's good for us, huh?
Shouldn't you be getting beaten up on a beach or something?

Hey, if it's good for the Africans, it's good for us, huh?

So really you don't believe in freedom or enlightenment at all do you? Or you have a completely twisted view on what those words actually mean...

Right now, you're showing how you hate people of other ethnicities especially those from African nations. That is not enlightenment.

So really you don't believe in freedom or enlightenment at all do you?

Yeah, I'm rather disappointed. I thought the discussion was going somewhere interesting, but it turns out that Rusty is just a sulking adolescent who wants to hurt people because they made him angry.

Ahh, the "they started it" defense. Truly the mark of a civilized mind.

Technically, we started it, but we quit.

Shouldn't you be getting beaten up on a beach or something?

Nah, we're not that stupid. We let all the other idiots fight it.

Immigrant guys who do "stuff".
Are you miffed because you got kicked out of a gang?

This guy (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25208784-1243,00.html) looks like he'll be taking young aspiring gang members. Maybe you should apply?

Mr Moran said despite the violent deaths and Tuesday's attempted hit, he didn't feel vulnerable.

"It seems like everybody is allowed to take pot shots at the Morans," he said.

"I just don't know why they'd want to do it to me.

"If he had've been fair dinkum he would have fired five or six shots. He wasn't real professional."
I love Aussies.

Oh well, good thread while it lasted, thanks for an entertaining lunch hour!

So really you don't believe in freedom or enlightenment at all do you? Or you have a completely twisted view on what those words actually mean...

Well, either we all get to fight, or none of us do. Make up your mind.

Shouldn't you be getting beaten up on a beach or something?
No, no, no. The Lebanese are the murderers. We're talking about Africans here. They're all just petty criminals. :rolleyes:

Well, either we all get to fight, or none of us do. Make up your mind.

Where are you getting the fact we all have to fight?

I don't go outside and see people trying to kill each other or force their culture on each other. Do you know what I see? An area where people of all backgrounds and ethnic groups mixing in peace.

I see an Indian restaurant and Chinese restaurant next to each other where the waiters of both establishments talk to each other outside during their breaks. I've even seen those 'gangstas' help people if they drop something or need directions or whatever.

Seriously, get out of your chair, go outside and you'll see the world isn't the messed up hellhole you seem to think it is.

Where are you getting the fact we all have to fight?

I don't go outside and see people trying to kill each other or force their culture on each other. Do you know what I see? An area where people of all backgrounds and ethnic groups mixing in peace.

I see an Indian restaurant and Chinese restaurant next to each other where the waiters of both establishments talk to each other outside during their breaks. I've even seen those 'gangstas' help people if they drop something or need directions or whatever.

Seriously, get out of your chair, go outside and you'll see the world isn't the messed up hellhole you seem to think it is.

Your country sounds like either a lie or a lot nicer than this one. See, over here, people don't like each other.

Where are you getting the fact we all have to fight?

I don't go outside and see people trying to kill each other or force their culture on each other. Do you know what I see? An area where people of all backgrounds and ethnic groups mixing in peace.

I see an Indian restaurant and Chinese restaurant next to each other where the waiters of both establishments talk to each other outside during their breaks. I've even seen those 'gangstas' help people if they drop something or need directions or whatever.

Seriously, get out of your chair, go outside and you'll see the world isn't the messed up hellhole you seem to think it is.

true, its not the hell hole the dail fail seems to think it is, however i think its far from perfect

Your country sounds like either a lie or a lot nicer than this one.
The latter is, though probably not the truth, more realistic than the former.

It's a bit sad that you'd suspect folks of different backgrounds talking to one another could possibly be a lie. People generally get on with each other, Ferrous, no matter what sensationalist tabloid press tells you.

See, over here, people don't like each other.
Too much sun.

*nods*

Your country sounds like either a lie or a lot nicer than this one. See, over here, people don't like each other.

Or that's all you want to see. You seem like the person who focuses to much on the negatives that you don't even give the positives a glance. My Great Uncle, who is also Australian has told me of stories where people help each other. Maybe it's your area but, no offence intended, it seems to be you who is filled with hate and can see nothing more.

Your country sounds like either a lie or a lot nicer than this one. See, over here, people don't like each other.

Wrong. Over there, YOU don't like other people. Don't try to project your own personal failings onto other people. Not everyone is as xenophobic as you.

true, its not the hell hole the dail fail seems to think it is, however i think its far from perfect

It's not perfect either but its much better than what Ferrous seems to think the world is like.

It's not perfect either but its much better than what Ferrous seems to think the world is like.

i would agreee with that too

I can only assume that Mr. Sumarasiri has never heard of Wales.

Or perhaps, he knows quite a bit about Wales, hence is position. :p

Maybe it's your area but, no offence intended, it seems to be you who is filled with hate and can see nothing more.

All the guys I used to fight, and the ones who still fight, kinda say otherwise.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21164506-2,00.html

This article is about a proposed law based on the appearance of racial tensions and gang activity after two incidents. Two. It should also be noted that this was proposed at a election time by a politician who came under fire for racist comments.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,24994054-2702,00.html

This one discusses problems with the refugee system. The only gang style killing mentioned in this article is the death of a Sudanese refugee at the hands of two men named Dylan Guiseppe Sabattino and Clinton David Rintoull. Those names don't sound very Sudanese to me.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,25105398-421,00.html?from=communities

This one doesn't mention if the attackers were in a gang or if they were immigrants. They were three black youths, which is all we know.

racist trolling is racist.

And trolling.

All the guys I used to fight, and the ones who still fight, kinda say otherwise.

Ah, the "guy I totally know" citation.

Ah, the "guy I totally know" citation.

Fight what? I'm just a bit lost. Could you please clarify?

racist trolling is racist.

And trolling.Not when you quote a brown immigrant!

Fight what? I'm just a bit lost. Could you please clarify?

Other groups.

Other groups.

So you fight them instead of trying to help them integrate. And they won't intergrate because you fight them and so you fight them because they won't intergrate etc.

Maybe, they're not the problem. It sounds more and more like you're the problem.

Other groups.

Oh, come on. I know you haven't given much reason to suspect it, but I'm still pretty confident you actually do have more brains than that.
Do we really have to drag out the old "And what if the guys you know all jumped from bridges, would you do the same"?

Not when you quote a brown immigrant!

inorite?

Must be one of them self hating niggahs

So you fight them instead of trying to help them integrate. And they won't intergrate because you fight them and so you fight them because they won't intergrate etc.

Maybe, they're not the problem. It sounds more and more like you're the problem.

that would be the problem if he wasn't...you know....a liar.

So you fight them instead of trying to help them integrate. And they won't intergrate because you fight them and so you fight them because they won't intergrate etc.

Maybe, they're not the problem. It sounds more and more like you're the problem.

Yeah, because we only just started fighting when the Africans arrived. :rolleyes:

Yeah, because we only just started fighting when the Africans arrived. :rolleyes:

That just makes it sound like you fight any group that came into the country. Question: Do you actively try to help people integrate or do you just complain a lot?

that would be the problem if he wasn't...you know....a liar.

He's right, I'm lying.

I never really stopped fighting. I just switched from ethnic gangs to hooliganism.

He's right, I'm lying.

I never really stopped fighting.

no.

You never really started.

I like how easily NSG is trolled these days.

That just makes it sound like you fight any group that came into the country. Question: Do you actively try to help people integrate or do you just complain a lot?

You already answered your question.

Let this abortion of a thread die.

racist trolling is racist.

And trolling.
I like how easily NSG is trolled these days.
Hopefully so; I'd hate for FO to actually believe this shit.

I wait for the day Nick Griffin stands up and says, "you guys are too easy".

Hopefully so; I'd hate for FO to actually believe this shit.

Well, I haven't exactly heard any condemnation of the gang activity of African immigrants from you guys. You're not really convincing me that I'm wrong; they're getting a free pass to do what they're doing because they're immigrants. I do the same thing, I'm a hooligan or a criminal.

If I were to be an immigrant, I'd do my best to learn the language of the country I am immigrating to, of course, but that's not easily done by most. In my case, I have access to plenty of resources to use to learn languages. Many don't.

And even those who do will often have trouble. I've always had massive amounts of trouble learning other languages--I've taken Spanish classes before and I always did poorly, not due to lack of effort, but simply due to a learning issue I have with other languages. Plenty of people have this issue and it will crop up everywhere you turn.

Frankly I am disgusted by the immigrant in the article for acting so racist. There is nothing wrong with trying to converse in another language. For example, one of the people mentioned in the article could have a good grasp of basic English but might've needed to turn to her native language to express more elaborate concepts.

There are so many situations in which one might find themselves conversing in another language that to insist the way the immigrant seen in the article does is outrageous.

Well, I haven't exactly heard any condemnation of the gang activity of African immigrants from you guys. You're not really convincing me that I'm wrong; they're getting a free pass to do what they're doing because they're immigrants. I do the same thing, I'm a hooligan or a criminal.

That's because you didn't actually prove that African immigrants are a gang problem in Australia. People only condemn those things that actually happen.

Well, I haven't exactly heard any condemnation of the gang activity of African immigrants from you guys. You're not really convincing me that I'm wrong; they're getting a free pass to do what they're doing because they're immigrants. I do the same thing, I'm a hooligan or a criminal.

So far, all we have is your word that this is actually a big problem in your country.
If it is, nobody's condoning it. It's criminal, and that is what police and courts are for.

However, I'm more inclined to believe it's isolated incidents blown out of all proportion in your fear-shaken brain and presented in a exaggerated manner by yourself here.

Dicen que este gato Shaft es una madre mala,
Cierra la boca!
Estoy hablando de Shaft.
Entonces, podemos empújelo!

I like how easily NSG is trolled these days.

I like how people think that trolling is witty or funny or intelligent or anything other than a sign of an inferior mind.

I like how people think that trolling is witty or funny or intelligent or anything other than a sign of an inferior mind.

It can amusing from time to time. Fart jokes are always funny. Doesn't mean they're intelligent.