NationStates Jolt Archive

Is she dead yet?

That way everyone can shut up about it and move on with their lives.

Is she dead yet?

That way everyone can shut up about it and move on with their lives.

Yeah right ...

The election in the US has been over for 5 months and anti-Kerry threads still pop up from time to time.

Yeah, but the results of an election actually have some sort of effect on the lives of the citizens of a country.

This does not effect anyone except the family and friends of this woman. People will get tired of it.

Hell, last week there were like 20 of these threads on one page and this week there's one...

I am doing my part to save lives, one at a time. You, on the other hand, are working to ensure the "useless" are disposed of. And your stance on the death penalty and the Iraq War speaks volumes as to whose lives you consider important. Oh well...we'll all have to account for our lives one day. I can sleep a little better, knowing I have taken the right approach on this one issue.

The Iraq War is wrong, though just from seeing your posts, you would probably think it's right. More innocent lives have died in this so-called "Liberation" WITHOUT VOLUNTEERING TO DO SO than under Saddam Hussein.

The Iraq War is wrong, though just from seeing your posts, you would probably think it's right. More innocent lives have died in this so-called "Liberation" WITHOUT VOLUNTEERING TO DO SO than under Saddam Hussein.

Care to provide proof of this sentence? Oh wait. The numbers have been disputed before and More Iraqis have still died under Hussein than in the liberation of Iraq. But this is about Terri Shiavo and not Iraq so I'll shut up now.

The debate is over, here on Earth. However, one day you will be called to account for your stances on many issues during your time here. I, on the one hand, can proudly say I stood up for the defenseless. What will you have to say?

"I think people have the right to direct their own life. To choose how to live it, and to choose when to die. I am sorry if you wished me to be your mindless puppet instead - though I always assumed you were a better Father than that. Please prove me right"

Note: the following is not directed at the person I quoted above.

And now.. enough. Not with actually debating this issue, but with the trolling. Mrs Schiavo was a human being. Making puppetnations to make just one post with ridiculous and inflammatory statements, or just posting things over and over again, always ignoring people that inform you your facts are wrong, making up facts to enrage people, enjoying the angered responses of people that actually care about this - yes, all of that may give you your little satisfaction - but how would you feel if she had been someone you had known and loved? Would you enjoy the thought of teenage boys jerking off on making fun of her ?

Grow up.

Do you know what I think? I think I cant eat for hours after looking at Terri Shiavos face so the news should stop showing her.

Personally, she should live, this is just like killing another human being, plus the way that she is being "killed" is like torture, if the husband doesnt want her, just hand her over to the parents b/c they obviously still want her to live

"You act as if she is capable of communicating with people. She is unconcious and according to her doctors, and brain scans the only part of here brain that works is the brain stem, therefore rendering her pretty much an unconcious vegtable. To keep her alive would only put more finacial and emotional strain on the family, and is absurd. She will never be normal agian and is not really alive, so why spend thousands of dollars to keep a brain dead person breathing. She will also not feel the pain of starvation or dehydration."




well.....some people here are incapable of communicating and probably will never be able to effectively...should we remove their refrigerators?

and please....spare the "you must be talking about yourself" comeback. its so lame.

New questions for the Anti Schiavo Squad:

Why, if Mr Schiavo's intentions are anything but dutiful did he turn down a one million dollar offer to relinquish his responsibilities to his wife?

Why, if Mr. Schiavo has anything to hide, has he permitted a full autopsy before her cremation?

When will you appologize for slandering him and putting slurs on his wife's good name with your foamy mouthed defamation of her husband?

New questions for the Anti Schiavo Squad:

Why, if Mr Schiavo's intentions are anything but dutiful did he turn down a one million dollar offer to relinquish his responsibilities to his wife?

Because then he would've been found that he was abusing her maybe? Granted no proof has turned up but something is suspicious!

Why, if Mr. Schiavo has anything to hide, has he permitted a full autopsy before her cremation?

He finally allowed it? I've heard he doesn't want an autopsy done. Proof that he does please?

When will you appologize for slandering him and putting slurs on his wife's good name with your foamy mouthed defamation of her husband?

When we know for a fact that the bastard didn't abuse her. An Autopsy would help clearify it up. Will he have one done?

Because then he would've been found that he was abusing her maybe? Granted no proof has turned up but something is suspicious!



He finally allowed it? I've heard he doesn't want an autopsy done. Proof that he does please?



When we know for a fact that the bastard didn't abuse her. An Autopsy would help clearify it up. Will he have one done?

What is suspicious?

You "heard" ? well mon cherie le petit gossip, I *read* in the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/national/29schiavo.html?hp&ex=1112072400&en=069a0aa26f3e6159&ei=5094&partner=homepage
(username 55555x55555 pass: 55555)

Bastard? I fail to see how a man fighting for years and weathering slander and turning down bribes to honor his wife's wishes is a bastard.

When will you appologise for all these lies and vicious rumors you spread? Easter was yesterday, so for Christ's sake dont be a false witness.

Because then he would've been found that he was abusing her maybe? Granted no proof has turned up but something is suspicious!



He finally allowed it? I've heard he doesn't want an autopsy done. Proof that he does please?



When we know for a fact that the bastard didn't abuse her. An Autopsy would help clearify it up. Will he have one done?

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050329/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman

He also said that the chief medical examiner for Pinellas County, Dr. John Thogmartin, had agreed to perform an autopsy. He said her husband wants definitive proof showing the extent of her brain damage. Michael Schiavo contends his wife told him years ago she would not want to be kept alive artificially under such circumstances.

An attorney for Schiavo's parents, David Gibbs III, said her family also wants an autopsy. "We would certainly support and encourage an autopsy to be done with all the unanswered questions," Gibbs said

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050329/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman

He also said that the chief medical examiner for Pinellas County, Dr. John Thogmartin, had agreed to perform an autopsy. He said her husband wants definitive proof showing the extent of her brain damage. Michael Schiavo contends his wife told him years ago she would not want to be kept alive artificially under such circumstances.

Good! Maybe then they can explain the rest of her injuries too! Also, it would be very humerous if her brain isn't as badly damaged as he said it was then he would have alot of explaining to do. Also, the injuries she does have also needs to come out and explained. At least one is being done! Maybe we can get to the bottom of everything.

An attorney for Schiavo's parents, David Gibbs III, said her family also wants an autopsy. "We would certainly support and encourage an autopsy to be done with all the unanswered questions," Gibbs said

I agree 100%!

What is suspicious?

The injuries that she has.

You "heard" ? well mon cherie le petit gossip, I *read* in the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/national/29schiavo.html?hp&ex=1112072400&en=069a0aa26f3e6159&ei=5094&partner=homepage
(username 55555x55555 pass: 55555)

Saw the yahoo one. Just saying that this is the first I've heard of it. That was why I wanted proof. He has been fighting not to have one done all along and now he changed his mind? Good thing in my book! Now we can get to the bottom of her injuries.

Bastard? I fail to see how a man fighting for years and weathering slander and turning down bribes to honor his wife's wishes is a bastard.

Sorry, I don't have any tolerance for an adulterer.

When will you appologise for all these lies and vicious rumors you spread? Easter was yesterday, so for Christ's sake dont be a false witness.

And what were those?

Good! Maybe then they can explain the rest of her injuries too! Also, it would be very humerous if her brain isn't as badly damaged as he said it was then he would have alot of explaining to do. Also, the injuries she does have also needs to come out and explained. At least one is being done! Maybe we can get to the bottom of everything.


what other injuries?

you mean the ones that happen when you pass out from lack of oxygen to the brain and hit your head on things on the way to the ground? :rolleyes:

what other injuries?

you mean the ones that happen when you pass out from lack of oxygen to the brain and hit your head on things on the way to the ground? :rolleyes:

How about x-rays that have shown broken bones? No one has yet explained how those bones got broken.

How about x-rays that have shown broken bones? No one has yet explained how those bones got broken.

falling to the ground from lack of oxygen

broken ribs are also a completely normal occourence during CPR

falling to the ground from lack of oxygen

broken ribs are also a completely normal occourence during CPR

I think this is more than Broken Ribs. Sorry that I can't find something from a credible source but a bone scan done in 1991 shows unexplained broken bones. I'm sure that its more than broken ribs. I'm trying to find more info though.

I think this is more than Broken Ribs. Sorry that I can't find something from a credible source but a bone scan done in 1991 shows unexplained broken bones. I'm sure that its more than broken ribs. I'm trying to find more info though.


why am i not suprised?

why am i not suprised?

Notice I said the word Credible. I have found info but they are mostly forums as well as blogs.

Notice I said the word Credible. I have found info but they are mostly forums as well as blogs.


exactly the point i was trying to make

exactly the point i was trying to make

An autopsy would go along way to help in understanding these broken bones. What would you say if it proves that she was actually abused? That her state was induced by him? Not saying it was but supposing that is what the Autopsy proves! Also suppose that it proves that her brain wasn't as badly damaged as he makes it out to be. How would that make him look as well as the judges?

I could guess but these questions could very well be answered when the Autopsy is performed. The Husband could actually be right and if he is then I will apologize for calling him a lier in this case!

An autopsy would go along way to help in understanding these broken bones. What would you say if it proves that she was actually abused? That her state was induced by him? Not saying it was but supposing that is what the Autopsy proves! Also suppose that it proves that her brain wasn't as badly damaged as he makes it out to be. How would that make him look as well as the judges?

I could guess but these questions could very well be answered when the Autopsy is performed. The Husband could actually be right and if he is then I will apologize for calling him a lier in this case!


haha!

whatever helps you sleep at night.

you say 'when they open her brain and its not as bad as he says it is' as if mr. schiavo was the one making the diagnosis.

sorry, but a panel of professional neurosergeons have reviewed the woman, and done scans, and have concluded that her skull is full of cranberry juice.



and just as a side note, i seriously doubt that you will apologise.

we all know perfectly well that no matter the results are, you're going to get some ridiculous conspiracy theory fed to you by terrisfight.org

An autopsy would go along way to help in understanding these broken bones. What would you say if it proves that she was actually abused? That her state was induced by him?
Her state was induced by her own bullemia. Throwing up a lot takes electrolytes out of your body, not only through the vomit itself, but the stress causes your body to dump electrolytes into the small intestine. The brain does not work without them.

Also suppose that it proves that her brain wasn't as badly damaged as he makes it out to be. How would that make him look as well as the judges?
He isn't the only one saying it. Every credible doctor is saying it.
Hell, this CAT scan says it: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/images/schiavo_ct_scan.jpg
Notice the huge gap?

I could guess but these questions could very well be answered when the Autopsy is performed. The Husband could actually be right and if he is then I will apologize for calling him a lier in this case!
It's not just the husband saying she's beyond repair. Every doctor except the ones hired by the parents are saying it.

Oh, and also, if you were the one on about the nobel prize nominated doctor saying she could be ok, then perhaps you should have a look at this: http://mediamatters.org/items/200503240007

haha!

whatever helps you sleep at night.

you say 'when they open her brain and its not as bad as he says it is' as if mr. schiavo was the one making the diagnosis.

sorry, but a panel of professional neurosergeons have reviewed the woman, and done scans, and have concluded that her skull is full of cranberry juice.



and just as a side note, i seriously doubt that you will apologise.

we all know perfectly well that no matter the results are, you're going to get some ridiculous conspiracy theory fed to you by terrisfight.org

I am saying suppose that they find that her brain isn't has destroyed as they are saying it is. How will that make Mr. Shiavo feel? What about the Justices? How would it make them feel. Notice I said the word suppose. Suppose her brain isn't fully of jelly as her husband suggested? Not every scan was done you know. I'm not saying her brain isn't jelly but I'm just trying to stimulate a debate here. Suppose that an autopsy shows that her brain isn't as full of jelly that her husband said it was. How would that look upon Mr. Shiavo? The Justices? Her family?

what is there to debate?

the experts in the feild all agree that there is no coming back.

end of story.

what is there to debate?

the experts in the feild all agree that there is no coming back.

end of story.

Suppose that her brain isn't as full of jelly as they say it is. How would that make Mr. Shiavo look? The Justices? Her Family?

Suppose that her brain isn't as full of jelly as they say it is. How would that make Mr. Shiavo look? The Justices? Her Family?
Did you ignore the CAT scan I posted?

And didn't you just say this to someone else?

Furthermore, if her brain wasn't as full of jelly as it appears to be then the only people who would be embarassed about anything woudl be the doctors who made the diagnoses... they're the experts. Mr. Shiavo is listening to the doctors and following his wife's wishes, or at least what he thinks her wishes would be, whichever. By the information he has been provided with, there is no coming back.
The judges have not done anything wrong. They are upholding the law and marital rights.
The family have already made complete asses of themselves.

suppose we get invaded by the ice cream cone people from planet weemboo?

how will that make you look? the president? the world?


:rolleyes:

i don't plan for things that won't happen.

terry's not giong to jump out of bed in the morning, the autopsy is going to reveal exactly what the doctors said it would, and the ice cream people from planet weemboo will not come to kill us all.

Did you ignore the CAT scan I posted?

And didn't you just say this to someone else?

Furthermore, if her brain wasn't as full of jelly as it appears to be then the only people who would be embarassed about anything woudl be the doctors who made the diagnoses... they're the experts. Mr. Shiavo is listening to the doctors and following his wife's wishes, or at least what he thinks her wishes would be, whichever. By the information he has been provided with, there is no coming back.
The judges have not done anything wrong. They are upholding the law and marital rights.
The family have already made complete asses of themselves.

Misdiagnosis do happen dude. Why do think malpractice insurance is so high? A CAT scan was the only thing done but there were other tests that needed to be done and they weren't!

What if this autopsy, if it even occurs, shows that she wasn't in a Persistent Vegitative State?

This is what debating is all about! Asking questions and not attacking the person asking them.

What if she was misdiagnosed? What if the Autopsy shows that she was abused? What if it proves that she wasn't in a persistent vegitative state?

:headbang:

i'm not even going to bother arguing anymore.

you obviously live in a little fantasy land where terry's husband is the devil incarnate and has commited atrocities on his wife, and is now buying off the entire nation's legal system to cover it up.

[edit:] i bet you are going to accuse the coroner of being bought off.

:headbang:

Misdiagnosis do happen dude. Why do think malpractice insurance is so high? A CAT scan was the only thing done but there were other tests that needed to be done and they weren't!

What if this autopsy, if it even occurs, shows that she wasn't in a Persistent Vegitative State?

This is what debating is all about! Asking questions and not attacking the person asking them.

What if she was misdiagnosed? What if the Autopsy shows that she was abused? What if it proves that she wasn't in a persistent vegitative state?
Ok, I'm sure they did more tests.

For another, her damn skull is like a cantalope. It's empty. Look at the damn CAT scan. It's even a side by side comparison with a healthy brain. You can't have consciousness with that much brain matter missing.

And I also doubt that so many experts could be wrong. This isn't a single diagnosis made by one physician, you're talking a large number of people who have examined this woman, if one missed something, another would have caught it.

suppose we get invaded by the ice cream cone people from planet weemboo?

how will that make you look? the president? the world?


:rolleyes:

i don't plan for things that won't happen.

Oh brother! I actually believe there are other lifeforms out there so it wouldn't make me look like anything. As for the President? I don't know if he believes in aliens or not. As for the world? Only those that believe that there is no intelligent life out there will be made to look like fools.

terry's not giong to jump out of bed in the morning, the autopsy is going to reveal exactly what the doctors said it would, and the ice cream people from planet weemboo will not come to kill us all.

We know she isn't going to jump out of bed. Unless God provides for a full scale miracle, that won't happen. However, misdiagnoses do happen and they cost millions too. I am not saying it is but an autopsy would settle alot of answers.

She has been in a vegitative state for twelve years. That's pretty persistent to me.

Misdiagnosis do happen dude. Why do think malpractice insurance is so high? A CAT scan was the only thing done but there were other tests that needed to be done and they weren't!

What if this autopsy, if it even occurs, shows that she wasn't in a Persistent Vegitative State?

This is what debating is all about! Asking questions and not attacking the person asking them.

What if she was misdiagnosed? What if the Autopsy shows that she was abused? What if it proves that she wasn't in a persistent vegitative state?

Then she was misdiagnosed for 15 years by dozens of doctors who examined her independantly and the entire medical community needs to be sued.

What if it proves that her parents kept her alive for years in a vegatative state against her and her husbands wishes? are they going to re-emburse him? apologize for the living hell they've put him through and encouraged those idiots outside the hospital to do?

Did you ignore the CAT scan I posted?


First of all, I seriously doubt you hold any qualification to analyze a Computer Aided Tomography scan other than that which is force fed to you by the media.

And didn't you just say this to someone else?

Furthermore, if her brain wasn't as full of jelly as it appears to be then the only people who would be embarassed about anything woudl be the doctors who made the diagnoses... they're the experts. Mr. Shiavo is listening to the doctors and following his wife's wishes, or at least what he thinks her wishes would be, whichever. By the information he has been provided with, there is no coming back.
The judges have not done anything wrong. They are upholding the law and marital rights.
The family have already made complete asses of themselves.

1. Michael Schiavo has a history of ignoring doctors that say Terri could live. That makes him guilty, if she dies.

2. The judges and judicial panels completely ignored a huge amount of reasonable doubt, plus rejected the opportunity to meet Terri Schiavo themselves. Judge Greer's hearing and eyesight are so bad that instead of reviewing the facts of the case himself, he instead chose a liberal appointee to review the case for him and present a summary to him (And for all of you who will whine "Libel!" "Lies!" "Rape!" that is a DOCUMENTED fact.)

3. Finally, parent's rights should always supercede spousal rights - ESPECIALLY in cases like this, where the remaining spouse is a man. Draw your own conclusions as to the difference.

:headbang:

i'm not even going to bother arguing anymore.

Why, because I'm actually asking for your opinion on something that could happen if an autopsy is done?

you obviously live in a little fantasy land where terry's husband is the devil incarnate and has commited atrocities on his wife, and is now buying off the entire nation's legal system to cover it up.

No! I'm just asking questions that will be asked if the autopsy shows what the family has been saying all along.

[edit:] i bet you are going to accuse the coroner of being bought off.

:headbang:

Nope, won't accuse anyone of buying anyone off. If the autopsy proves that she is in a persistent vegitative state then I will abide by their decision. However, if they show that she isn't, then all hell will break loose.

Then she was misdiagnosed for 15 years by dozens of doctors who examined her independantly and the entire medical community needs to be sued.

It happens.

What if it proves that her parents kept her alive for years in a vegatative state against her and her husbands wishes? are they going to re-emburse him? apologize for the living hell they've put him through and encouraged those idiots outside the hospital to do?

That is for them to settle but if it proves that they did then I can be mad at them but I can still be mad at Mr. Shiavo for being an adulterer. Forgive him to a point but that is as far as I will go.

Ok, I'm sure they did more tests.

Nope, they haven't! Mr. Shiavo has prohibited it.

For another, her damn skull is like a cantalope. It's empty. Look at the damn CAT scan. It's even a side by side comparison with a healthy brain. You can't have consciousness with that much brain matter missing.

And yet, there is more than one brain scan that can be done. CAT scans aren't perfect and they don't catch everything.

And I also doubt that so many experts could be wrong. This isn't a single diagnosis made by one physician, you're talking a large number of people who have examined this woman, if one missed something, another would have caught it.

Not necessarily the case.

We know she isn't going to jump out of bed. Unless God provides for a full scale miracle, that won't happen. However, misdiagnoses do happen and they cost millions too. I am not saying it is but an autopsy would settle alot of answers.

The only "misdiagnosis" has been by the quacks her parents hired. You know, the ones that weren't specialists and/or didn't even examine her.

There have been DOZENS of doctors, both hired by the husband and independant court doctors that have all said the same thing.

Are you able to show anything on the alledged "broken bones"?

Can you find anything about her being "responsive" except from her parents?

Nope, they haven't! Mr. Shiavo has prohibited it.



And yet, there is more than one brain scan that can be done. CAT scans aren't perfect and they don't catch everything.



Not necessarily the case.

They haven't done any tests? Can you show a source for that?

First of all, I seriously doubt you hold any qualification to analyze a Computer Aided Tomography scan other than that which is force fed to you by the media.
You dont' need to be an expert to notice the huge void where there should be brain matter.

1. Michael Schiavo has a history of ignoring doctors that say Terri could live. That makes him guilty, if she dies.
The only doctors who are saying she can live are the ones hired by her parents. Again, see the article I posted regarding the supposed Nobel prize nominated doctor who said she would be fine and how he isn't really nominated for a nobel prize, hell, the pirze he is supposedly nominated for does not even exist. Furthermore, he has been disciplined for this kind of crap.
The court appointed doctors are saying she doesn't stand a chance, every expert is saying she doesn't have a chance.

2. The judges and judicial panels completely ignored a huge amount of reasonable doubt, plus rejected the opportunity to meet Terri Schiavo themselves. Judge Greer's hearing and eyesight are so bad that instead of reviewing the facts of the case himself, he instead chose a liberal appointee to review the case for him and present a summary to him (And for all of you who will whine "Libel!" "Lies!" "Rape!" that is a DOCUMENTED fact.)
For one thing, the legal aspect to this case is not whether she can live or not, but who has the right to make the decision. Her husband does.

3. Finally, parent's rights should always supercede spousal rights - ESPECIALLY in cases like this, where the remaining spouse is a man. Draw your own conclusions as to the difference.
Yes, let's promote gender discrimination. For another thing, why should the parents have more rights to make decisions like this? Answer: they shouldn't. It's not their place anymore.

It happens.



That is for them to settle but if it proves that they did then I can be mad at them but I can still be mad at Mr. Shiavo for being an adulterer. Forgive him to a point but that is as far as I will go.

You make it sound like he immediately went off and started screwing other women. I guess the years he spent taking her around the country to doctors WHO ALL SAID SHE WAS VEGETATIVE don't count.

That is for them to settle but if it proves that they did then I can be mad at them but I can still be mad at Mr. Shiavo for being an adulterer. Forgive him to a point but that is as far as I will go.
Even though her parents are the ones who not only encouraged him to date, but set him up with the woman he is currently with?

They haven't done any tests? Can you show a source for that?

They've done tests just not recently because he has refused. There have only been CAT scans done but NO MRI! CAT scans aren't perfect by any means hence the MRI to complement the CAT scan. There hasn't been an MRI done at all.

Care to show me where I've said that they haven't done any tests at all?

Even though her parents are the ones who not only encouraged him to date, but set him up with the woman he is currently with?

Proof please?

Nope, they haven't! Mr. Shiavo has prohibited it.
Proof?

And yet, there is more than one brain scan that can be done. CAT scans aren't perfect and they don't catch everything.
I very much doubt they'd miss brain matter in the entire centre of her head.

Not necessarily the case.
So the only doctors who are any good are the ones who support your position and the rest are incompotent despite demonstration in other cases that the opposite is true?

They've done tests just not recently because he has refused. There have only been CAT scans done but NO MRI! CAT scans aren't perfect by any means hence the MRI to complement the CAT scan. There hasn't been an MRI done at all.

Care to show me where I've said that they haven't done any tests at all?

"Nope, they haven't! Mr. Shiavo has prohibited it."

and you still haven't provided a source for your information.

The only "misdiagnosis" has been by the quacks her parents hired. You know, the ones that weren't specialists and/or didn't even examine her.I guess a Nobel Medicine Prize nomination qualifies the Neurologist who examined her for more than 10 hours as a "quack"?

There have been DOZENS of doctors, both hired by the husband and independant court doctors that have all said the same thing.And the vast majority of said doctors have spent, at most, one hour examining her records, each. Few, if any, have actually spent time with her.

Are you able to show anything on the alledged "broken bones"?An autopsy after she passes will show the "love" she received from Michael Schiavo...if he actually allows one.

Can you find anything about her being "responsive" except from her parents?A Nobel Medicine Prize-nominated Neurologist. Two of the nurses who have treated her. An agent of the Pinellas County Court, who spends (even now) more time with Terri than anyone else. All of them have testified as to Terri's highly responsive condition, even 10 days into her own personal holocaust.

By the way, isn't it amazing that someone who we have been told was incapable of surviving on her own has somehow managed to make it through 10 days of hell? Of course, now they have to give her morphine...so much for the "painless" experience.

Proof please?
Uh... it was said earlier in this thread. To you, if I'm not mistaken, and backed up with a news source...

Good job paying attention to the argument and evidence that contradicts your position. Could it be that you simply ignore and explain away everything without actually considering it?

I guess a Nobel Medicine Prize nomination qualifies the Neurologist who examined her for more than 10 hours as a "quack"?
He wasn't nominated for a nobel prize. For one thing, someone who was not qualified wrote a letter nominating him for a prize that doesn't exist: the peace prize in medicine... for another, the man is already facing disiplinary action...
Same link posted on the last page that got ignored: http://mediamatters.org/items/200503240007

So the only doctors who are any good are the ones who support your position and the rest are incompotent despite demonstration in other cases that the opposite is true?

Not necessarily incompetent... there are a lot of reasons a doctor might say something that ain't so. Not all of them are evil, either. They might just be afraid to speak the truth because everyone who does gets axed, fired (vis-a-vis the nurse who saw Schiavo injecting his wife, and the security guards who were present when Terri tried to talk the last two times.)

Or, they might be afraid of raising Michael's (or her parent's) hopes and getting slapped with ANOTHER malpractice suit.

Or, they just might have an agenda, such as wanting to provide euthanasia. They ARE after all doctors, and if euthanasia were legalized, they could make a lot of money by telling people there was no hope for this or that car accident victim. It's not like anybody else would be qualified to inject sodium pentathol into those people.

I guess a Nobel Medicine Prize nomination qualifies the Neurologist who examined her for more than 10 hours as a "quack"?

And the vast majority of said doctors have spent, at most, one hour examining her records, each. Few, if any, have actually spent time with her.

An autopsy after she passes will show the "love" she received from Michael Schiavo...if he actually allows one.

A Nobel Medicine Prize-nominated Neurologist. Two of the nurses who have treated her. An agent of the Pinellas County Court, who spends (even now) more time with Terri than anyone else. All of them have testified as to Terri's highly responsive condition, even 10 days into her own personal holocaust.

[i]By the way, isn't it amazing that someone who we have been told was incapable of surviving on her own has somehow managed to make it through 10 days of hell? Of course, now they have to give her morphine...so much for the "painless" experience.


You mean the "Nobel Nominate" who was disciplined by the medical association for falsley claiming it?

http://mediamatters.org/items/200503240007

You mean the ONE nurse who has stated he paraded girlfriends through the room and tried to kill her?

Highly responsive? I guess that's why dozens of doctors have stated differently and every court has denied the parent's and gov'ts appeals?

He wasn't nominated for a nobel prize. For one thing, someone who was not qualified wrote a letter nominating him for a prize that doesn't exist: the peace prize in medicine... for another, the man is already facing disiplinary action...
Same link posted on the last page that got ignored: http://mediamatters.org/items/200503240007Using mediamatters as a source? What, couldn't afford to use democracynow?

And the vast majority of said doctors have spent, at most, one hour examining her records, each. Few, if any, have actually spent time with her.
Exactly. Nice to see you tried to delete the line where you state exactly what I said. Thanks for agreeing that the Drs hired by Michael Schaivo are simply hired guns.

Not necessarily incompetent... there are a lot of reasons a doctor might say something that ain't so. Not all of them are evil, either. They might just be afraid to speak the truth because everyone who does gets axed, fired (vis-a-vis the nurse who saw Schiavo injecting his wife, and the security guards who were present when Terri tried to talk the last two times.)

Or, they might be afraid of raising Michael's (or her parent's) hopes and getting slapped with ANOTHER malpractice suit.

Or, they just might have an agenda, such as wanting to provide euthanasia. They ARE after all doctors, and if euthanasia were legalized, they could make a lot of money by telling people there was no hope for this or that car accident victim. It's not like anybody else would be qualified to inject sodium pentathol into those people.

So she hasn't said a word for 15 years and is suddenly trying to talk? Or do you mean those open vowel sounds that the parents are trying to claim as sentances?

Or maybe the dozens of doctors are telling the truth.

Not necessarily incompetent... there are a lot of reasons a doctor might say something that ain't so. Not all of them are evil, either. They might just be afraid to speak the truth because everyone who does gets axed, fired (vis-a-vis the nurse who saw Schiavo injecting his wife, and the security guards who were present when Terri tried to talk the last two times.)

Or, they might be afraid of raising Michael's (or her parent's) hopes and getting slapped with ANOTHER malpractice suit.

Or, they just might have an agenda, such as wanting to provide euthanasia. They ARE after all doctors, and if euthanasia were legalized, they could make a lot of money by telling people there was no hope for this or that car accident victim. It's not like anybody else would be qualified to inject sodium pentathol into those people.
Yes, it's a conspiracy... everyone has been out to kill this woman from day one. Hell, I'm sure a doctor purposely screwed up and got her into this state in the first place. I'm sure her husband was forcing her to be bullemic... he was probably feeding her foods that made her throw up and shoving his fingers down her throat when that didn't happen in an attempt to screw her up. That's it.

You mean the "Nobel Nominate" who was disciplined by the medical association for falsley claiming it?

http://mediamatters.org/items/200503240007[quote]Mediamatters, uh...couldn't bring yourself to use democracynow and state loud and clear that you have no point?

[quote]You mean the ONE nurse who has stated he paraded girlfriends through the room and tried to kill her?No, I mean the TWO nurses who have testified in sworn affidavits, that they heard Michael refer to Terri as "that bitch", that he would get highly agitated, demanding to know when Terri would die, and that he brought his girlfriend to see Terri, telling the girlfriend he was only waiting until Terri died to marry her.

Highly responsive? I guess that's why dozens of doctors have stated differently and every court has denied the parent's and gov'ts appeals?Anyone who has stated that she is in PVS has received money from Michael Schiavo. He has, in effect, bought their verdicts, with money that was intended to pay for her rehabilitation and medical expenses.

BTW, someone asked earlier why Michael Schiavo would refuse a $1 million offer to walk away and let her parents take care of her. Think about it...if he does that, and takes the $1 million, he gets no book deal. His book (and trust me, we'll see a book from him soon after she dies,) will only sell if she dies while under his "custody." The man is the Face of Evil.

So she hasn't said a word for 15 years and is suddenly trying to talk? Or do you mean those open vowel sounds that the parents are trying to claim as sentances?

Or maybe the dozens of doctors are telling the truth.
As long as Michael Schiavo continues to pay them to say what he wants, they will continue to read from his script.

First of all, I seriously doubt you hold any qualification to analyze a Computer Aided Tomography scan other than that which is force fed to you by the media.


1. Michael Schiavo has a history of ignoring doctors that say Terri could live. That makes him guilty, if she dies.

2. The judges and judicial panels completely ignored a huge amount of reasonable doubt, plus rejected the opportunity to meet Terri Schiavo themselves. Judge Greer's hearing and eyesight are so bad that instead of reviewing the facts of the case himself, he instead chose a liberal appointee to review the case for him and present a summary to him (And for all of you who will whine "Libel!" "Lies!" "Rape!" that is a DOCUMENTED fact.)

3. Finally, parent's rights should always supercede spousal rights - ESPECIALLY in cases like this, where the remaining spouse is a man. Draw your own conclusions as to the difference.

"Parent's rights should always supercede spousal rights."????

Step back from this situation a moment. You cannot be both serious and sane.

Your lack of medical qualifications has not stopped you from dismissing the diagnoses of every reputable doctor that has actually examined Mrs. Schiavo.

I'd love to see you document #1 or #2.

Judge Greer does happen to be legally blind. His hearing is fine.

And he is not the only judge to have done a de novo review of the evidence.

And all 3 guardians ad litem -- including the one nominated by Gov. Bush -- have all agreed with Judge Greer.

Disagree with all of the courts if you wish, but this continued libel of anyone involved with the case other than the Schindlers should stop.

"The problem with courts is that sometimes they make decisions we disagree with." -- The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.

EDIT: Nevermind. Having read on, I remembered that you are impervious to facts in this case. Continue with your mindless outrage. Luckily no one with actual responsibility agrees with you.

As long as Michael Schiavo continues to pay them to say what he wants, they will continue to read from his script.

So he's paid off court appointed doctors, the state judges, the appeals court, the federal appeals court and the supreme court? Damn, I wish I had the money to do that.

As long as Michael Schiavo continues to pay them to say what he wants, they will continue to read from his script.

:headbang: :headbang:

@#$ independent @#$#% court-appointed @#$@ Gov. Bush's pick!@#!$

You are still beyond rational discussion. No point in responding intelligently.

Using mediamatters as a source? What, couldn't afford to use democracynow?
Would more sources be better? A quick search on google reveals that the only place that says this man has any credibility whatsoever is terrysfight.com...
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/userletter/?id=171&letter_id=208356716
http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2005/3/26/75896.html

Exactly. Nice to see you tried to delete the line where you state exactly what I said. Thanks for agreeing that the Drs hired by Michael Schaivo are simply hired guns.
I didnt' mean to say that in the first place. I left part of your quote in there... it also appears that the doctors picked by her parents are the "hired guns" upon further investigation, indludig your nobel prize nominee... and the court appointed doctors are agreeing with Mr Shiavo's doctors...

Thanks for jumping to conclusions.

:headbang: :headbang:

@#$ independent @#$#% court-appointed @#$@ Gov. Bush's pick!@#!$

You are still beyond rational discussion. No point in responding intelligently.

There is no intelligent response to posts like that.

On something you should figure on...

What do you think the odds are that the parents will start sueing the entire world after she dies?

So he's paid off court appointed doctors, the state judges, the appeals court, the federal appeals court and the supreme court? Damn, I wish I had the money to do that.
I'm sure he's been using the money from the malpractise suit to do so :rolleyes:

:headbang: :headbang:

@#$ independent @#$#% court-appointed @#$@ Gov. Bush's pick!@#!$

You are still beyond rational discussion. No point in responding intelligently.
Could it be because you have no intelligent replies? Parroting Michael Schiavo simply makes you an accomplice of an adulterer who is bent on finishing the job of murdering a helpless woman, which he started in 1990. That he's had assistance from the courts simply shows how out of touch with mainstream America the courts have become.

Notice I said the word Credible. I have found info but they are mostly forums as well as blogs.

Corneliu, do post a source if you can find it. I doubt it exists. I don't know Floridas laws but many states have laws were hospitols have to notify the authorities about possible abuse cases.

I'm sure he's been using the money from the malpractise suit to do so :rolleyes:
Good point. Just where did the $1+ million he got from the malpractice suit, which was meant to cover her medical and rehab expenses, go?

Hint: check George Felos' pockets...

Another hint: George Felos is a major campaign contributor to Judge Greer...

Good point. Just where did the $1+ million he got from the malpractice suit, which was meant to cover her medical and rehab expenses, go?

Hint: check George Felos' pockets...

Another hint: George Felos is a major campaign contributor to Judge Greer...

Source it.

Suppose that her brain isn't as full of jelly as they say it is. How would that make Mr. Shiavo look? The Justices? Her Family?

Well think lawsuits. The hospitols get sued all the time. They try to put extra effort into verifying before making declarations such as total brain damage such as hers.

Unless you can show a high error rate in scans, it's nothing more then reaching.

Could it be because you have no intelligent replies? Parroting Michael Schiavo simply makes you an accomplice of an adulterer who is bent on finishing the job of murdering a helpless woman, which he started in 1990. That he's had assistance from the courts simply shows how out of touch with mainstream America the courts have become.

Try reading back a bit, skippy.

I've replied intelligently and with this little thing you are unfamiliar with called documentation copious times.

In fact, I have responded repeatedly to your feeble grasp of reality. That you simply ignore facts and spew garbage is why intelligent responses are futile.

And now I am an accomplice to murder. You are on the edge of libeling me. Watch it. I am completely serious. Try to control yourself. (Insult me if you wish. I do not care what you think at the moment. But do not accuse me of a crime.)

I'd be concerned but you apparently consider every judge of every court from the Florida state trial court through the Florida Supreme Court through a US District Court through the US Supreme Court all to be accomplices to murder as well.

Perhaps I was wrong about Mrs. Schiavo. It appears there are others who can type but have less brain function.

Good point. Just where did the $1+ million he got from the malpractice suit, which was meant to cover her medical and rehab expenses, go?

Hint: check George Felos' pockets...

Another hint: George Felos is a major campaign contributor to Judge Greer...
Hint: Check out how much it costs to keep someone hooked up to a feeding tube for 15 years...

Corneliu, do post a source if you can find it. I doubt it exists. I don't know Floridas laws but many states have laws were hospitols have to notify the authorities about possible abuse cases.

i can back up Hannibel reasonably well.

i got training as a summer camp counselor in NJ, and one of the things we learned was that if we even suspected abuse, we had to, according to the law, report it to the authorities, or at the very least, our supervisors, who had to report it to the authorities.

i would be very suprised if a similar system did not apply to spousal abuse cases in florida

Good point. Just where did the $1+ million he got from the malpractice suit, which was meant to cover her medical and rehab expenses, go?

Hint: check George Felos' pockets...

Another hint: George Felos is a major campaign contributor to Judge Greer...

This is idiotic. Is $250.00 a "major campaign contribut[ion]"?

Why are you libeling a Republican, conservative, born-again Christian judge?

Simply because -- having reviewed all the facts repeatedly -- he's reached a decision you disagree with?? (Decisions upheld by every of of the numerous courts that have reviewed them.)

Really, have you no decency? Have you no decency whatsoever?

As long as Michael Schiavo continues to pay them to say what he wants, they will continue to read from his script.

Ok now you are getting pathetic. :rolleyes:

There is no intelligent response to posts like that.

On something you should figure on...

What do you think the odds are that the parents will start sueing the entire world after she dies?

They may try but they have to prove things.

What I do think will happen is Jeb will start a campaign for "special" powers to act on future cases.

Try reading back a bit, skippy.

I've replied intelligently and with this little thing you are unfamiliar with called documentation copious times.

In fact, I have responded repeatedly to your feeble grasp of reality. That you simply ignore facts and spew garbage is why intelligent responses are futile.

And now I am an accomplice to murder. You are on the edge of libeling me. Watch it. I am completely serious. Try to control yourself.

I'd be concerned but you apparently consider every judge of every court from the Florida state trial court through the Florida Supreme Court through a US District Court through the US Supreme Court all to be accomplices to murder as well.

Perhaps I was wrong about Mrs. Schiavo. It appears there are others who can type but have less brain function.Wow, we use big words, don't we? Too bad that your big words, and the utterly contemptible piece of human garbage you defend, don't make you right.

A woman is in a hospital bed, undergoing a "treatment" that, were it being applied to some of the human excrement sitting in cells at Guantanamo, would get the Left in arms about human rights violations, and you think it's the right thing to do, because her so-called husband suddenly "remembered" hearing her say that was what she wanted? Of course, his memory was highly refreshed by a check from an insurance company... And, just because a judge who hasn't bothered getting his facts straight (how could he, when he couldn't see right from wrong if it stood in front of him!) says it's ok??

I can see there is no point trying to get you to understand, but I will try one last time...whenever there is reasonable doubt in a case where someone's life is at stake, you should err on the side of LIFE. Hell, we do that for Death Row inmates! Terri Schindler's only crime in life was marrying the utter piece of human debris who now controls her fate because she can't.

But I guess you can't understand that, you're so blinded by the cult of death.

Could it be because you have no intelligent replies? Parroting Michael Schiavo simply makes you an accomplice of an adulterer who is bent on finishing the job of murdering a helpless woman, which he started in 1990. That he's had assistance from the courts simply shows how out of touch with mainstream America the courts have become.

As opposed to making up "facts" and running around shouting the sky is falling.....

There is no intelligent response to posts like that.

On something you should figure on...

What do you think the odds are that the parents will start sueing the entire world after she dies?

I'm not sure. Their desperation will end when Mrs. Schiavo finally passes on. They may move on.

They won't get anywhere suing anyone and will likely face sanctions after too long. So, even if the Schindlers persist, their lawyers won't.

This is idiotic. Is $250.00 a "major campaign contribut[ion]"?

Why are you libeling a Republican, conservative, born-again Christian judge?

Simply because -- having reviewed all the facts repeatedly -- he's reached a decision you disagree with?? (Decisions upheld by every of of the numerous courts that have reviewed them.)

Really, have you no decency? Have you no decency whatsoever?
Decency? YOU, lecturing ME about DECENCY? Hold on, it's almost funny.

You want to know about HUMAN decency? Basic human decency dictates that you don't kick someone when they're down. You don't do anything that puts those who can't defend themselves in mortal danger. You don't put your words into someone else's mouth, knowing full well that there is no way to verify whether what you say they said is true or not.

Human decency is summed up in the opening line of the Hyppocratic Code: First, do no harm.
May I add to that, "do no harm, especially to those who can't defend themselves."

They may try but they have to prove things.

What I do think will happen is Jeb will start a campaign for "special" powers to act on future cases.


yep.

from what i heard (my parents heard it on the news) they are considering a law that says that if you do not expressly name the piece of equipment that you want to be disconnected from, they will not unplug you.

a simple "after one year, with no signs of improvement, unplug me" will not suffice.

you have to say: "i do not want to be kept on the ventilator. i do not want to be kept on the kidney machine. i do not want to be kept on a feeding tube"

you know that machine they invent five years from now? if you don't mention it by name, they keep you forcibly alive

their argument: "well, if the patient had known about this new machine, would they have made the decision to die? we can't be sure, so let's go against all evidence to the contrary, and keep them alive"

you should err on the side of LIFE.

Bad choice to quote there skippy.

He was a hypocrite to say then when he signed a law in Texas granting hospitols the right to pull the plug.

I can see there is no point trying to get you to understand, but I will try one last time...whenever there is reasonable doubt in a case where someone's life is at stake, you should err on the side of LIFE. Hell, we do that for Death Row inmates!

no you don't

May I add to that...

no, you may not.

their argument: "well, if the patient had known about this new machine, would they have made the decision to die? we can't be sure, so let's go against all evidence to the contrary, and keep them alive"
The Hyppocratic code starts: First, do no harm.

Do you think that disconnecting someone from life support, only because it's not convenient anymore, qualifies as doing harm? Do you need help with this answer?

Wow, we use big words, don't we? Too bad that your big words, and the utterly contemptible piece of human garbage you defend, don't make you right.

A woman is in a hospital bed, undergoing a "treatment" that, were it being applied to some of the human excrement sitting in cells at Guantanamo, would get the Left in arms about human rights violations, and you think it's the right thing to do, because her so-called husband suddenly "remembered" hearing her say that was what she wanted? Of course, his memory was highly refreshed by a check from an insurance company... And, just because a judge who hasn't bothered getting his facts straight (how could he, when he couldn't see right from wrong if it stood in front of him!) says it's ok??

I can see there is no point trying to get you to understand, but I will try one last time...whenever there is reasonable doubt in a case where someone's life is at stake, you should err on the side of LIFE. Hell, we do that for Death Row inmates! Terri Schindler's only crime in life was marrying the utter piece of human debris who now controls her fate because she can't.

But I guess you can't understand that, you're so blinded by the cult of death.

<sigh>

I'm not going to continue the flame contest.

I will note that your ridiculing of the blind speaks more than sufficiently about your sense of compassion.

yep.

from what i heard (my parents heard it on the news) they are considering a law that says that if you do not expressly name the piece of equipment that you want to be disconnected from, they will not unplug you.

a simple "after one year, with no signs of improvement, unplug me" will not suffice.

you have to say: "i do not want to be kept on the ventilator. i do not want to be kept on the kidney machine. i do not want to be kept on a feeding tube"

you know that machine they invent five years from now? if you don't mention it by name, they keep you forcibly alive

their argument: "well, if the patient had known about this new machine, would they have made the decision to die? we can't be sure, so let's go against all evidence to the contrary, and keep them alive"


That is scary but considering how many people didn't like the Goverment getting involved, I doubt they will seriously try it.

Especially since that issue already exists in the living wills. You have to name what to keep and what can be pulled.....

no you don'tYes, we do. Ever hear of the stay of execution? How about the last second pardon? They happen, and they happen often. The system is designed so that reasonable doubt can stop an execution. Maybe Terri Schindler should have killed someone before she had her "incident."

no, you may not.Do I really care about you granting me "permission"? Maybe because I said something that makes you re-think.

<sigh>

I'm not going to continue the flame contest.

I will note that your ridiculing of the blind speaks more than sufficiently about your sense of compassion.
What about YOUR sense of compassion? "Yeah, we know her parents have been willing to take care of her for as long as she lives, but screw them, because her husband says that he and only he heard her say she would have wanted to die, so c'mon, die already."

Yeah, very compassionate. At least what I say here isn't meant to convince anyone that Judge Greer MUST be "allowed" to remain blind. Your posts here are meant to convince...someone...that Terri must die.

The Hyppocratic code starts: First, do no harm.

Do you think that disconnecting someone from life support, only because it's not convenient anymore, qualifies as doing harm? Do you need help with this answer?

you really are an idiot, aren't you?

1) the woman said she doesn't want to be kept alive

2) the husband kept her alive for long enough to be absolutely sure that she wasn't coming back

3) the doctors all agree that she isn't coming back

4) as the legal guardian of his wife, he makes the decision in the event that she cannot

5) the courts stand behind the law that says that it's the husband's decision to make



do you honestly expect this woman to live forever?

she is going to die eventually, and no amount of bitching is going to change that.

when you stop looking at death as something that must be avioded at all costs and is the most horrible thing in the world, and instead see that it is simply one more step in life, no more or less than birth or marrige, you will truly see the mercy that we extend towards this poor woman, whose parents keep her in an indefinate state of limbo because they cannot handle the truth

Yes, we do. Ever hear of the stay of execution? How about the last second pardon? They happen, and they happen often. The system is designed so that reasonable doubt can stop an execution. Maybe Terri Schindler should have killed someone before she had her "incident."

Do I really care about you granting me "permission"? Maybe because I said something that makes you re-think.

Again, you do not even know Mrs. Schiavo. You presume to change her name, when not even her parents have gone so far.

Your lack of knowledge about Mrs. Schiavo's case is surpassed only by your lack of knowledge about the death penalty in the country.

There are strict laws limiting the number of appeals a death row inmate is allowed. The Schindlers have been allowed more than 16 separate appeals -- including 3 to the Supreme Court.

I have worked on death penalty cases where within 24 hours of the Supreme Court's dismissal of an inmates one and only appeal, the inmate has been executed.

In addition to lacking decency, you have no sense of perspective. Try breathing into a paper bag so you don't hyperventilate.

Okay, Panhandlia, let me just step in and say you are acting like an ass. What makes you so sure that you are right? And really, would you want to be kept barely alive-ish for fifteen years by a machine, unable to move or think or speak or see? I can tell you right now, I'd want them to pull the plug, and I'd want my wife to if I couldn't do it myself.

Do you think that disconnecting someone from life support, only because it's not convenient anymore, qualifies as doing harm? Do you need help with this answer?
Do you give a rat's ass when any other family does this?

Do you need help with this answer?

What about YOUR sense of compassion? "Yeah, we know her parents have been willing to take care of her for as long as she lives, but screw them, because her husband says that he and only he heard her say she would have wanted to die, so c'mon, die already."

Yeah, very compassionate. At least what I say here isn't meant to convince anyone that Judge Greer MUST be "allowed" to remain blind. Your posts here are meant to convince...someone...that Terri must die.

I really should not respond. I know you are beyond hope.

You really don't get thing one about this situation.

I don't care if Mrs. Schiavo dies. (Again, I don't presume to be on a first-name basis.) I'd be overjoyed if she were to miraculously recover, but it isn't going to happen.

If you knew anything about this case, you would know it is not simply Mr. Schiavo that testified that Mrs. Schiavo expressed a wish not to be forcefully kept alive under these circumstances.

Also, try Google on the phrase "clear and convincing evidence" it is the standard by which more than one court has found Mrs. Schiavo's wish would be to be allowed to die.

The Schindlers' had no evidence other than their own opinions that Mrs. Schiavo would wish to be forcibly kept alive. Moreover, they testified they would wish to keep Mrs. Schiavo alive (a) against her will (even if she had expressly told them she wanted to die) and (b) even if she were suffering continuous agony. The Schindlers situation deserves compassion. (As does Mr. Shiavo's) Their refusal to give up hope deserves respect. But they have have strayed from seeking what is best for their daughter.

I am willing to respect someone's wish not to be forcibly kept alive. Mrs. Schiavo cannot feel pain, but is being given morphine as a precaution. She is not suffering. She is being allowed to die peacefully with as much dignity as she has left.

Unlike you, I have the decency not to wish to defame anyone connected to this tragedy. It is saddening no matter how you look at it.

If any of these words are too big for you to read, let me know and I'll try to dumb it down. Unfortunately, it appears no one can help you with comprehension.

She's been in their fifteen years and she has not recovered. Her mental capibily is that of a 6-month old I beleive I read yesturday. I beleive her husband is doing what she wished and I beleive he also has already received the money from the lawsuits. He got like 300 thou and she got 700 thou. Money that is long gone. Tax payers are funding her hospital care and if there was anyway she could recover I would be for it. But fifteen years and she has not learned any type of communication. If it was just verbal ablity she could learn to comminicate by blinking or some other form besides speech. She is physically unable to.

Personally I think the parents are being selfish.

His having another family is realistic. After 2 years if she wasn't showing significant signs of mental recovery there is no reason you should be able to condem the man. At least he is still there trying to protect her best intersts. He could have just given her up to her parents but he has been fighting them for years now to do what he sees right.

Good point. Just where did the $1+ million he got from the malpractice suit, which was meant to cover her medical and rehab expenses, go?

Hint: check George Felos' pockets...

Another hint: George Felos is a major campaign contributor to Judge Greer...


Some questions for you, False Witness.

Why, if Mr Schiavo's motives are anything but dutiful did he turn down $1,000,000 in cash to walk away from his rights and responsibilities in the case?

Why, if Mr Schiavo is concerned about hiding wrongdoing has he consented to a full autopsy before his wife's cremation?

When do you plan on appologising for your dishonest smear campaing, your slander of Mr schiavo and it would seem now of judge greer (and the other courts/ the whole government?).

When do you plan on making an appology for bearing false witness and spreading lies and rumor?

When do you plan on admitting you are mistaken about Mr Schiavo's intentions and role in this?

When do you plan on admitting that you were wrong about Mrs Schiavo's condition (and that it was in fact permanent and vegitative) ?

It is the day after easter, so for Christ's sake be honest.

It is the day after easter, so for Christ's sake be honest.

Hmm... a question just popped into my mind.
A lot of people argue that Mrs. Schiavos death would be a suicide according to Catholic doctrine[1] - and that claims that she would want to die are therefor unlikely. However, if I remember my Bible correctly, Jesus knew he could prevent his own death by calling out to his Father - but choose not to do so.

Why can one not say that Jesus committed suicide then ? And if Jesus could choose to die for the benefit of others, why isn't mrs Schiavo allowed to make the same choice ?

Footnotes
[1] Even though the starvation taking place now is just letting nature take its course or if you prefer: leaving it to God instead of defying his will with technology.

Corneliu, do post a source if you can find it. I doubt it exists. I don't know Floridas laws but many states have laws were hospitols have to notify the authorities about possible abuse cases.

I'm sure that they inquired Mr. Shiavo as to her injuries! As I said, I'll be looking for those sources when I find time.

1) the woman said she doesn't want to be kept alive

Proof? Is it written somewhere? Do you know where she hid it?

2) the husband kept her alive for long enough to be absolutely sure that she wasn't coming back

For arguement sake's she has tried to talk. She Can swallow according to nurses. But again, for arguement sakes.

3) the doctors all agree that she isn't coming back

Not all of them.

4) as the legal guardian of his wife, he makes the decision in the event that she cannot

I won't dispute this.

5) the courts stand behind the law that says that it's the husband's decision to make

Even though its hearsay?



do you honestly expect this woman to live forever?

We all die eventually.

she is going to die eventually, and no amount of bitching is going to change that.

Correct!

when you stop looking at death as something that must be avioded at all costs and is the most horrible thing in the world, and instead see that it is simply one more step in life, no more or less than birth or marrige, you will truly see the mercy that we extend towards this poor woman, whose parents keep her in an indefinate state of limbo because they cannot handle the truth

I can agree in part but only in part. BTW: nice runon sentence.

Even though its hearsay?

There is a difference between "a man in the pub said so" or "a random nurse is said to have said so" and "the person she empowered to speak on her behalf when unable to do so herself (by marriage) has said so".

There is a difference between "a man in the pub said so" or "a random nurse is said to have said so" and "the person she empowered to speak on her behalf when unable to do so herself (by marriage) has said so".

There is nothing in writing. The Court appointed him as legal guardian. Since there is nothing in writing, its hearsay evidence.

There is nothing in writing. The Court appointed him as legal guardian. Since there is nothing in writing, its hearsay evidence.

The fact that she married him is in writing. By marrying she gave him the power to speak on her behalf, as she could for him. She didn't write anything down about him not being allowed to do so. She didn't choose her parents, but she did choose her husband. Which is why what he says is more than just hearsay, and more important than the word of the parents.

There is nothing in writing. The Court appointed him as legal guardian. Since there is nothing in writing, its hearsay evidence.

Are you also in favor of NERFing marriage so that "teh gays" don't want it anymore?

The fact that she married him is in writing. By marrying she gave him the power to speak on her behalf, as she could for him. She didn't write anything down about him not being allowed to do so. She didn't choose her parents, but she did choose her husband. Which is why what he says is more than just hearsay, and more important than the word of the parents.

Its a marraige license. Even my parents have one! However, my parents also have a living will. I know what needs to be done via that. In this case, there is nothing in writing stating that she doesn't want to be kept alive. That is the crux of the matter. If there was something in writing then the parents wouldn't have a case. Or the husband.

As for her husband, he's an adulterer. I wouldn't trust him because of it.

Proof? Is it written somewhere? Do you know where she hid it?

The evidence is that those closest to her - her friends and spouse - all say that she said it.

For arguement sake's she has tried to talk.

So any noise is an attempt to talk? A frog makes a noise when you poke it too, does that mean we can just assume it is trying to say something? If I poke a frog and it goes "ribbit", can I assume it was trying to say "Rabbits are nice"?

Are you also in favor of NERFing marriage so that "teh gays" don't want it anymore?

I have no idea what the heck your talking about! :confused:

Hmm... a question just popped into my mind.
A lot of people argue that Mrs. Schiavos death would be a suicide according to Catholic doctrine[1] - and that claims that she would want to die are therefor unlikely.

Never mind that she wasn't a practicing Catholic even *before* her collapse.

The evidence is that those closest to her - her friends and spouse - all say that she said it.

Proof that her closest friends have said it please?

So any noise is an attempt to talk? A frog makes a noise when you poke it too, does that mean we can just assume it is trying to say something? If I poke a frog and it goes "ribbit", can I assume it was trying to say "Rabbits are nice"?

Yes it is. Yes you can. That can be your opinion!

Never mind that she wasn't a practicing Catholic even *before* her collapse.

Proof please?

I have no idea what the heck your talking about! :confused:

By law, your spouse is your next-of-kin. Therefore, by law, they determine your medical treatment (or lack of it) if you are unable to do so yourself.

But the neo-cons of the world want that protection to be taken away. The only thing I can figure is that they think if they take away all the protections afforded by marriage, the fight over gay marriage will be over, because no sane person will need it anymore.

Proof that her closest friends have said it please?

Seven years of court logs.

Yes it is. Yes you can. That can be your opinion!

You really are being silly here.

Proof please?

Well, to be a practicing Catholic, there are certain things you do. Terri wasn't doing them. It's pretty simple. She also (according to court logs) told friends and family that she wants to be cremated (against church dogma) but her parents hold that she wouldn't want that.

Well, to be a practicing Catholic, there are certain things you do. Terri wasn't doing them. It's pretty simple. She also (according to court logs) told friends and family that she wants to be cremated (against church dogma) but her parents hold that she wouldn't want that.

Proof that she wasn't a practicing catholic!

Its a marraige license. Even my parents have one! However, my parents also have a living will. I know what needs to be done via that.

A living will indeed overwrites a marriage for this issue. As would any document she signed saying her husband could not decide for her.
But there are none of those documents. Unfortunately, since there would indeed be no case then. Hopefully many people will now write one, so this mediacircus will not be repeated in the future.
But in absence of written statements to the contrary, the "marriage license" makes the husbands word equivalent to a living will.

As for her husband, he's an adulterer. I wouldn't trust him because of it.

Would you not trust him if he had been a widower and then remarried ?

A living will indeed overwrites a marriage for this issue. As would any document she signed saying her husband could not decide for her.

To bad there wasn't a divorce. That would've solved some problems in my mind.

But there are none of those documents. Unfortunately, since there would indeed be no case then. Hopefully many people will now write one, so this mediacircus will not be repeated in the future.

That is being done now. They have noticed a tremendous spike in living wills all of a sudden.

But in absence of written statements to the contrary, the "marriage license" makes the husbands word equivalent to a living will.

To a point I will agree with you but I do think that he should've consulted with the family before deciding. He didn't do that.

Would you not trust him if he had been a widower and then remarried ?

If he remarried after becoming a widower (before this incident mind you), doesn't make one an adulterer. However, that isn't the case here. He is legally an adulterer since he is legally still married but is shacking up with another girl and made 2 kids with her.

But I guess you can't understand that, you're so blinded by the cult of death.

Here's that wonderful CuLt Of DeAtH again.
Maybe it's Great Cthulhu we're trying to raise?

To bad there wasn't a divorce. That would've solved some problems in my mind.

Even if you, for the sake of argument, *assume* Mrs Schiavo would really prefer to die in these circumstances and that he is carrying out her wishes ?

To a point I will agree with you but I do think that he should've consulted with the family before deciding. He didn't do that.

I thought he had, but that they just didn't agree/believe their daughter could want to die. However, I have no evidence for this - so if you're certain i'll take your word for it.

If he remarried after becoming a widower (before this incident mind you), doesn't make one an adulterer. However, that isn't the case here. He is legally an adulterer since he is legally still married but is shacking up with another girl and made 2 kids with her.

In that case.. could you answer these questions ?

When do you call a human being dead ? I call someone dead if the things that make them a person are gone forever. By this definition mrs Schiavo is already dead, and has been for quite a long time.
It appears you disagree, counting the body in addition to the "soul". But.. if the body of your wife is completely destroyed, except for a finger that can be preserved for years with medical technology - would you say shacking up with another woman is adultery ? If not, where do you draw the line ? And do you accept that other people may not share this opinion ?

And the second question: if someone you loved dies, should one do his/her best to honour the deceased wishes ?

Here's that wonderful CuLt Of DeAtH again.
Maybe it's Great Cthulhu we're trying to raise?
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!

Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!

Exactly! We just need to stew the woman's soul in her warped body for a few more days, and the sacrifice will be ready!

Cthulhu Fhtagn! Cthulhu Fhtagn!

Even if you, for the sake of argument, *assume* Mrs Schiavo would really prefer to die in these circumstances and that he is carrying out her wishes ?

Then I would have to support the husband but here, we don't know what she wants. Nothing is in writing and I really wish there was. Because there isn't, I have to err on the side of life. That is my own personal opinion.

I thought he had, but that they just didn't agree/believe their daughter could want to die. However, I have no evidence for this - so if you're certain i'll take your word for it.

I don't have evidence either. Everything we are hearing is hearsay. Not once have I heard him say I told the parents this is what she wanted. I could be wrong too.

In that case.. could you answer these questions ?

When do you call a human being dead ? I call someone dead if the things that make them a person are gone forever. By this definition mrs Schiavo is already dead, and has been for quite a long time.
It appears you disagree, counting the body in addition to the "soul". But.. if the body of your wife is completely destroyed, except for a finger that can be preserved for years with medical technology - would you say shacking up with another woman is adultery ? If not, where do you draw the line ? And do you accept that other people may not share this opinion ?

A. When they stop breathing.
B. No! I wouldn't. I would stay by her side till she is dead. I wouldn't move on till then. If she is breathing she is still my wife and I have a duty to do all I can for her.
C. If she is dead, as in not breathing, then I would move on with my life and if another woman enters into it, then great. If not then that's fine too. I wouldn't be shacking up with another woman till then.
D. Yes I do accept that others don't share my opinions but that doesn't mean that I should also be attacked for my own opinions either.

And the second question: if someone you loved dies, should one do his/her best to honour the deceased wishes ?

Yes I do.

I'm sure that they inquired Mr. Shiavo as to her injuries! As I said, I'll be looking for those sources when I find time.

That's still a guess. This affair is reaching soap opera levels. With all the dirt being thrown, don't you think somebody would be pressing the point how the authorities spoke to him?

Again when you find the source......

That's still a guess. This affair is reaching soap opera levels. With all the dirt being thrown, don't you think somebody would be pressing the point how the authorities spoke to him?

Again when you find the source......

When I find it, I'll post it damnit

Its a marraige license. Even my parents have one! However, my parents also have a living will. I know what needs to be done via that. In this case, there is nothing in writing stating that she doesn't want to be kept alive. That is the crux of the matter. If there was something in writing then the parents wouldn't have a case. Or the husband.

As for her husband, he's an adulterer. I wouldn't trust him because of it.

Yes and said license empowers the spouse to speak and act for the other. Why else do hospitols talk to a spouse before acting?

The living will is only for the purpose solving issues when you think your spouse can't. There are many people who can't say "take him off life support" even they know it's the thing that needs to be done.

With the Right-to-Life people's envolvement, living wills are going to be needed to keep them from making you exist.

Sure he is an adulterer. However, you haven't proven him a liar as he wasn't when they were married(well for what we know). She is gone and he can't divorse her because the parents will move in and take control.

A. When they stop breathing.

Hmm.. according to that definition if I chop off a womans head, but keep her lungs working through machinery she is still alive. Would you say this is true ?

If not I must point out that based on what the doctors say about mrs Schiavos condition this "chopped off head" analogy is quite valid - if you replace the machinery by the parts of the brain that control the body. Everything else is gone (unless they are mistaken/lying).

B. No! I wouldn't. I would stay by her side till she is dead. I wouldn't move on till then. If she is breathing she is still my wife and I have a duty to do all I can for her.

You are a noble person :)

D. Yes I do accept that others don't share my opinions but that doesn't mean that I should also be attacked for my own opinions either.
Attacked - no. But if an opinion can't withstand criticism or debate, it's not much of an opinion ;)

Now.. if the best way for someone to carry out the wishes of someone they consider to be dead, while others disagree, is to officially stay married to her - should he also sacrifice the next 15 years of his life ?

Hmm.. according to that definition if I chop off a womans head, but keep her lungs working through machinery she is still alive. Would you say this is true ?

No I wouldn't say its true.

If not I must point out that based on what the doctors say about mrs Schiavos condition this "chopped off head" analogy is quite valid - if you replace the machinery by the parts of the brain that control the body. Everything else is gone (unless they are mistaken/lying).

what machines were keeping her alive? The feeding tube? I don't call that a machine but that of course is my opinion.

You are a noble person :)

Thanks :)

Attacked - no. But if an opinion can't withstand criticism or debate, it's not much of an opinion ;)

Well was attacked by some people. Not you but others. However, an opinion is an opinion ;)

Now.. if the best way for someone to carry out the wishes of someone they consider to be dead, while others disagree, is to officially stay married to her - should he also sacrifice the next 15 years of his life ?

If he truely loved her than yes! However, this person is shacking up with someone else while still married to her and has 2 kids by her. This is what is reffered to as a common law marriage. In effect, he has more than one wife which is a violation of US Law.

If he truely loved her than yes! However, this person is shacking up with someone else while still married to her and has 2 kids by her. This is what is reffered to as a common law marriage. In effect, he has more than one wife which is a violation of US Law.

If his current girlfriend is stating that she is married, then you might have a case. Otherwise, that is pure interpretation that any decent lawyer would destroy in a court of law.

And it would have never come to him being an adulterer if the parents just had respected their daughter's wishes and let her die. They are the one who dragged this for 7 years in the courts. After encouraging Mr. Schiavo to get on with his life, I may add.

Then I would have to support the husband but here, we don't know what she wants. Nothing is in writing and I really wish there was. Because there isn't, I have to err on the side of life. That is my own personal opinion.

...by taking away the decision from the person *she* gave it to.

If his current girlfriend is stating that she is married, then you might have a case. Otherwise, that is pure interpretation that any decent lawyer would destroy in a court of law.

They are technically married in all but name. Its called a "common law marraige"

In the eyes of the court, he should be held accountable for this.

And it would have never come to him being an adulterer if the parents just had respected their daughter's wishes and let her die. They are the one who dragged this for 7 years in the courts. After encouraging Mr. Schiavo to get on with his life, I may add.

This is the second case where I've seen this. Proof please?

Finally, something that may change Corneliu's mind: Jesse Jackson joins fight for Schiavo's life (http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/29/schiavo/index.html). :D

Finally, something that may change Corneliu's mind: Jesse Jackson joins fight for Schiavo's life (http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/29/schiavo/index.html). :D

Jesse Jackson is supporting her? :eek:

I may have to reassess good ole Jackson.

They are technically married in all but name. Its called a "common law marraige"

In the eyes of the court, he should be held accountable for this.

There is no "common law" marriage in Florida.

In fact, only a small number of states recognize common law marriage at all.

This is the second case where I've seen this. Proof please?

Why? You don't care.

You've never supplied proof of any of what you are saying and have actively ignored proof of things you refuse to believe.

There is no "common law" marriage in Florida.

In fact, only a small number of states recognize common law marriage at all.

Maybe true but it is a common law marriage none-the-less

Why? You don't care.

Show me the proof that she isn't a practicing Catholic!

You've never supplied proof of any of what you are saying and have actively ignored proof of things you refuse to believe.

Perhaps I AM LOOKING FOR IT? And I am!

Maybe true but it is a common law marriage none-the-less
*snip*

You clearly have no idea what common law marriage is.

This neatly sums up your positions on the whole issue.

There is no such thing as common law marriage in Florida, yet you believe Mr. Schiavo is in one and therefore guilty of bigamy.

1 + 0 != 2. 1 + 0 = 1.

Really, you are become even less rational about this.

They are technically married in all but name. Its called a "common law marraige"

In the eyes of the court, he should be held accountable for this.

False

Not according to this (http://family-law.freeadvice.com/fl_common_law_marriage.htm)

And little doozy says that Florida doesn't recognize common-law marriage (http://www.lawcom.com/immigration/marriage.shtml)

In the US, the State of Pennsylvania recognizes a common law marriage made in its territory...but in the State of Florida beginning a few years ago, a common law marriage can no longer be made. Florida still recognizes common law marriages made elsewhere and also recognizes those made in Florida before the cut-off date. If a person claims to have made a common law marriage in Florida recently, it would not be valid for immigration purposes.

So, in essence, the guy is perfectly legit (even if amoral in your view)

I'm working on giving you a source for the other thing...

You clearly have no idea what common law marriage is.

Oh I do Cat-Tribe! Don't start telling me what I do and do not know. I've had enough of it this week already.

This neatly sums up your positions on the whole issue.

There is no such thing as common law marriage in Florida, yet you believe Mr. Schiavo is in one and therefore guilty of bigamy.

In my mind he is. In my mind he is also an adulterer.

False

Not according to this (http://family-law.freeadvice.com/fl_common_law_marriage.htm)

And little doozy says that Florida doesn't recognize common-law marriage (http://www.lawcom.com/immigration/marriage.shtml)


So, in essence, the guy is perfectly legit (even if amoral in your view)

I'm working on giving you a source for the other thing...

He's still an adulterer however. I guess you missed that fact?

Oh I do Cat-Tribe! Don't start telling me what I do and do not know. I've had enough of it this week already.



In my mind he is. In my mind he is also an adulterer.

Fine.

Define common law marriage.

Define bigamy.

Then, try to make a rational argument that Mr. Schiavo has common law marriage and is guilty of bigamy.

But, before you make a bigger ass of yourself, you may want to read this (http://public.findlaw.com/family/nolo/faq/709FAEE4-ABEA-4E17-BA34836388313A3C.html) and this (http://www.lectlaw.com/files/sex05.htm).

not sure about the veracity but it seems legit (http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/26/news_pf/Tampabay/She_s_the_other_woman.shtml)

Terri's parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, agreed he was a devoted husband and encouraged him to date other women, according to court records and relatives.

"It was only a couple of weeks before Bob Schindler was saying Mike needed to get on with his life," said Schiavo's brother, Scott. "That was the farthest thing from Mike's mind."

But as months turned into years, Schiavo lost hope.

He decided to date about three years after Terri collapsed, Schiavo's lawyer said during the 2000 trial.

"It took Michael a long time to consider the prospect of getting on with his life - something he was actively encouraged to do by the Schindlers, long before enmity tore them apart," Jay Wolfson, a former guardian of Terri, wrote in a 2003 report to Gov. Jeb Bush.

"He was even encouraged by the Schindlers to date, and introduced his in-law family to women he was dating," Wolfson wrote.

How about that?

He's still an adulterer however. I guess you missed that fact?
So what?
Is it illegal in the state of Florida?

As far as I'm concerned, if he feel he is living in sin, he should go to church and confess. God will judge his life. We don't have to. In fact, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Its confirmed by the court-appointed nonpartisan GAL's report (viewable here.) (http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/WolfsonReport.pdf)



Quote: "It took Michael a long time to consider the
prospect of getting on with his life – something he
was actively encouraged to do by the Schindlers, long
before enmity tore them apart. He was even encouraged
by the Schindlers to date, and introduced his in-law
family to women he was dating."

He's still an adulterer however. I guess you missed that fact?

Adultery is not illegal. There is no fine or jail time for it.

There's a difference between adultery and bigamy.

what machines were keeping her alive? The feeding tube? I don't call that a machine but that of course is my opinion.

The machine in this case is the remnant of her brain. Based on the doctors testimonies all those remnants do is letting blood flow and allowing breathing to continue. Completely removing these remnants and replacing them with a machine would not make any difference for Mrs Schiavo.

Well was attacked by some people. Not you but others. However, an opinion is an opinion ;)
True. But if one can't (or has no desire) to defend it, does he actually have an opinion or is he just pretending ? But that is a nice philosophical debate for another thread.

If he truely loved her than yes! However, this person is shacking up with someone else while still married to her and has 2 kids by her. This is what is reffered to as a common law marriage. In effect, he has more than one wife which is a violation of US Law.

And if his wife had wanted him to do that ? I do not know if she would have of course, but it is possible. If I got shipwrecked on a deserted island for 10 years with no way to tell the world I'm still alive I would hate the thought of my wife being miserable and lonely all the time. Even though it would mean I would have lost her on my return, I would prefer her to be happy.
But of course I am not mrs Schiavo and only her wishes matter here.

Adultery is not illegal. There is no fine or jail time for it.

There's a difference between adultery and bigamy.

And even if he is; it does not justify the argument he is lying about her wishes to end her life in certain cases.

The parents of Schiavo believe that her husband wants her dead so he can receive her inheritance and marry his girlfriend.

The parents of Schiavo believe that her husband wants her dead so he can receive her inheritance and marry his girlfriend.

And what inheritance is that? Also, if Mr. Schindler runs out and changes the will, there is NO inheritance to claim!

He's still an adulterer however. I guess you missed that fact?

I don't know about you, but if I were incapacitated with no hope of recovery or if I died, I wouldn't want my spouse to wait 7 years to get on with his life.

I would guess that most people who really do love their significant other would feel the same. There is no reason that someone who is essentially a widower should be alone.

The parents of Schiavo believe that her husband wants her dead so he can receive her inheritance and marry his girlfriend.

Inheritance? What a joke. Do you realize how much round-the-clock care and flights all over the country for an invalid cost? If Micheal Schiavo actually has any money it would be a miracle.

I don't know about you, but if I were incapacitated with no hope of recovery or if I died, I wouldn't want my spouse to wait 7 years to get on with his life.

I would guess that most people who really do love their significant other would feel the same. There is no reason that someone who is essentially a widower should be alone.

I would stay with her till her dying breath and not have another woman on the side. That is devotion Dempublicents.

I would stay with her till her dying breath and not have another woman on the side. That is devotion Dempublicents.

Maybe you would - but would she want you to? Would she want you to be miserable? If she would, you may need to reexamine her feelings for you.

I would stay with her till her dying breath and not have another woman on the side. That is devotion Dempublicents.

Everybody is different Corneliu. Wait till you find somebody before you pass judgement. Remember Judge not? ;)

My grandparents stayed together till my grandfather died. They slept in different parts of the house and they really didn't like each other. Is that devotion?

Maybe you would - but would she want you to? Would she want you to be miserable? If she would, you may need to reexamine her feelings for you.

I would go on with my life when she passes.

Everybody is different Corneliu. Wait till you find somebody before you pass judgement. Remember Judge not? ;)

Yes everybody is different.

My grandparents stayed together till my grandfather died. They slept in different parts of the house and they really didn't like each other. Is that devotion?

Then why did they stay together? If I was with someone I didn't like, I would be miserable.

I would go on with my life when she passes.

Which still doesn't answer the question - are you avoiding it?

Meanwhile, Terri Schiavo, had her parents not decided to interfere with her wishes, should have passed 7 years ago - by all accounts I have seen before he started dating this woman. As such, I see nothing wrong with his actions.

Which still doesn't answer the question - are you avoiding it?

When she passes from this world, then and only then, will I move on. Is that clear enough?

Meanwhile, Terri Schiavo, had her parents not decided to interfere with her wishes, should have passed 7 years ago - by all accounts I have seen before he started dating this woman. As such, I see nothing wrong with his actions.

Since all I'm getting is hearsay on both sides, its hard to comeout to a rational decision. I think it is still better to err on the side of life but that is, again, my opinion.

Then why did they stay together? If I was with someone I didn't like, I would be miserable.

Well they would never answer the question. The only thing we could image was :

1) Divorse was a bad thing for their generation.
2) Divorse was a bad thing from where they came from. Penn and Missouri.
3) For the family.

They were not happy but they did a good job hiding it when we were around. Never felt the tension when I was a kid.

My grandmother did seem happier in the end. Well for what she was. She was not an easy woman.

When she passes from this world, then and only then, will I move on. Is that clear enough?

My question was not what you would do, but what *she* would want.

Since all I'm getting is hearsay on both sides, its hard to comeout to a rational decision. I think it is still better to err on the side of life but that is, again, my opinion.

The evidence seems to show that Terri's parents were *horribly* out of touch. Meanwhile, there is no reason for Micheal to continue this if he *doesn't* believe it is really what she wants. Thus, I err on the side of Terri's obvious wish that he be her caretaker.

Well they would never answer the question. The only thing we could image was :

1) Divorse was a bad thing for their generation.
2) Divorse was a bad thing from where they came from. Penn and Missouri.
3) For the family.

They were not happy but they did a good job hiding it when we were around. Never felt the tension when I was a kid.

My grandmother did seem happier in the end. Well for what she was. She was not an easy woman.

I can understand where they were coming from! Thanks :)

Heck, my grandmother wasn't an easy woman either.

My question was not what you would do, but what *she* would want.

She would probably want me to go on with my life but I will do that when she passes.

The evidence seems to show that Terri's parents were *horribly* out of touch. Meanwhile, there is no reason for Micheal to continue this if he *doesn't* believe it is really what she wants. Thus, I err on the side of Terri's obvious wish that he be her caretaker.

That is your opinion and I respect it.

She would probably want me to go on with my life but I will do that when she passes.

Which would be your personal decision, one I would have a great deal of respect for. =)

Which would be your personal decision, one I would have a great deal of respect for. =)

Thank You :)

A handfull of simple questions for the Anti Schiavo Squad:

Why, if Mr Schiavo's motives are anything but dutiful did he turn down an offer of one million dollars to rescind his rights and responsibilities in the case?

Why, if Mr Schiavo has done anything wrong has he consented to a full autopsy of his wife's body?

When do you plan on appologizing for the spreading of rumors and the bearing of false witness of which you are guilty, and when do you plan to appologise for slandering Mr Schiavo and castings slurs on so many others involved?

I would stay with her till her dying breath and not have another woman on the side. That is devotion Dempublicents.
devotion is also fighting for years to make sure she isnt forced to live the life she said she would never want. even after you have found a new love, have children, and have to face scorn and death threats every day.

that is true love too.

have to face scorn and death threats every day.

Christians making death threats :eek: You're lying!!!!!! ;)

I would stay with her till her dying breath and not have another woman on the side. That is devotion Dempublicents.


You had to stop slurring him as a money grubber
then you had to stop slurring him as a murder conspirator...

now you slur him as undevoted?

He turned down a million dollars. Reportedly ten million dollars.

You hate this man no matter what dont you?

Etrusca: quit being a trolling stupid conservative shmuck.

Everyone else: check out this funny movie about it on Newgrounds:
http://newgrounds.com/portal/view/227208

Everyone else: check out this funny movie about it on Newgrounds:
http://newgrounds.com/portal/view/227208

Ahaha ... "You're a man now, Tommy". Rock on.

You had to stop slurring him as a money grubber
then you had to stop slurring him as a murder conspirator...

now you slur him as undevoted?

He turned down a million dollars. Reportedly ten million dollars.

You hate this man no matter what dont you?

Sorry! I don't like Adulterers.

Sorry! I don't like Adulterers.


so?

some people don't like jews.

does that mean they should have a lower legal standing?

of course not.

the law says he makes the decision.

the law does not care if he is an adulterer.


ever wonder why the statue of lady justice has a blindfold?

ever wonder why the statue of lady justice has a blindfold?

She's kinky?

so?

some people don't like jews.

does that mean they should have a lower legal standing?

of course not.

the law says he makes the decision.

the law does not care if he is an adulterer.


ever wonder why the statue of lady justice has a blindfold?
Indeed, Lady Justice wears the blindfold...I suppose it is because she is horrified to see the things being done to Terri Schindler, allegedly in her name, by her alleged husband.

Indeed, Lady Justice wears the blindfold...I suppose it is because she is horrified to see the things being done to Terri Schindler, allegedly in her name, by her alleged husband.


:p
you really crack me up.

Indeed, Lady Justice wears the blindfold...I suppose it is because she is horrified to see the things being done to Terri Schindler, allegedly in her name, by her alleged husband.

Or the amount of fun some sick people are having posting "interesting facts" without backup on fora and then sit back and enjoy the angry responses.
At least Lady Justice remembers she was a human being.

Indeed, Lady Justice wears the blindfold...I suppose it is because she is horrified to see the things being done to Terri Schindler, allegedly in her name, by her alleged husband.

Ok now you are getting funny! :D :fluffle:

He seems to be a pretty weird character. It is possible that he genuinely wants to end her misery, but who knows.

I'm not sure that's it. Apparently he stands to get a good deal of insurance money when she dies, and of course, there's this other woman he's had children with, so I'm sure he wants to end his responsibility to his wife after all this time. But if it isn't the insurance money, then since he obviously doesn't want the responsibility of caring for her anymore, why not divorce her and let her parents take responsibility for her, as they have been asking to do? Can you imagine what they are going through right now?

Another point is that he was apparently a control freak on a par with the evil husband in "Sleeping With the Enemy," which is why Terri Schiavo is in this condition in the first place. In my opinion, he needs to be tried for attempted murder and guardianship should be given to her parents.

But if it isn't the insurance money, then since he obviously doesn't want the responsibility of caring for her anymore, why not divorce her and let her parents take responsibility for her, as they have been asking to do?

Maybe because he loves her and hates seeing her like this?

I'm not sure that's it. Apparently he stands to get a good deal of insurance money when she dies
source please?

and of course, there's this other woman he's had children with, so I'm sure he wants to end his responsibility to his wife after all this time.
Which he was encouraged to meet and have a relationship with by the Schindlers. Which he met much later after Mrs. Sciavo was diagnosed. But, most importantly, which has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the fact that he's the legal guardian and that he's the authority on his wife's wishes.

But if it isn't the insurance money, then since he obviously doesn't want the responsibility of caring for her anymore,
How do you know that? Maybe he's caring but he decided to grant her wife's wishes to end it after SEVEN years of treatments to try and make her better?

why not divorce her and let her parents take responsibility for her, as they have been asking to do?
Because they are sadly delusionnal on what Mrs. Schiavo wanted in terms of care. Because they tried slander, court order, bypassing the law. Hell, they even tried to go to court and have them divorced by the judge with blatant disrespect for the law and Mrs. Schiavo wishes.

Can you imagine what they are going through right now?
Why should that count for anything?
Furthermore, can you imagine what Mr. Schiavo is going through right now? With his name all over the news, his reputation slandered, death threaths a daily occurence and in-law that are screaming for your head?
And what about his new girlfriend who has been nothing but supportive but is still called a bitch?

Another point is that he was apparently a control freak on a par with the evil husband in "Sleeping With the Enemy," which is why Terri Schiavo is in this condition in the first place.
Source please?
And don't you think that the numerous judges didn't look at that evidence before making their decision?

In my opinion, he needs to be tried for attempted murder and guardianship should be given to her parents.
In my opinion, you know far too little about this case to form an informed opinion. The mere fact that the police hasn't arrested Mr. Schiavo speaks volume about what the state of Florida thinks about it. The fact that Mrs. Schiavo herself gave legal guradianship to his husband is reason enough to not give it to the parents.

I would like to see some journalist dig as deep in the Schindler life as they did in Mr. Schiavo's. In fact, I would like to see how the pro-parents side would react if we claimed they were control freak who were completely disconnected to reality and to the wishes of their daughter to the point of not even seeing that Mrs. Schiavo suffered from bulimia.

When she passes from this world, then and only then, will I move on. Is that clear enough?



Since all I'm getting is hearsay on both sides, its hard to comeout to a rational decision. I think it is still better to err on the side of life but that is, again, my opinion.

Wrong, that's hearsay, as you say. That's just a stupid phrase you've heard over and over in conservative news outlets, and you think it sounds good. You're too lazy to look at the facts seriously, from trained neurologists, and choose the easy way out of listening to politicians who are just using Shiavo supporters for their mailing lists to attract them to the GOP.

Wrong, that's hearsay, as you say. That's just a stupid phrase you've heard over and over in conservative news outlets, and you think it sounds good. You're too lazy to look at the facts seriously, from trained neurologists, and choose the easy way out of listening to politicians who are just using Shiavo supporters for their mailing lists to attract them to the GOP.

Hearsay is also a court term dude. And yes, all we are getting is hearsay because no one is in the courts or us getting the up-to-date via cable from the courts or from her room.

Hearsay is also a court term dude. And yes, all we are getting is hearsay because no one is in the courts or us getting the up-to-date via cable from the courts or from her room.


he said that "to err on the side of life" is the bullshit GOP propoganda that you have been force fed.

the same GOP that thinks that automatic weapons with armor peircing bullets will make us safer, despite the fact that every police officer in the nation argued against letting the ban expire.

the same GOP that thinks execution is humane.

fucking hypocrites

Hearsay is also a court term dude. And yes, all we are getting is hearsay because no one is in the courts or us getting the up-to-date via cable from the courts or from her room.

Hearsay is a legal term -- yet another one you do not understand.

Federal Rules of Evidence 801-807 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rules.htm#Rule801).

The courts have a slightly better grip on what is and isn't hearsay than you, my friend. And the court opinions are not hearsay.

You really do yourself no favor by throwing around legal terms as if you understood them.

Can you imagine what they are going through right now?
Can you imagine what Mr. Schiavo is going through right now? I dont guess you have been married to a vegetable for the last fifteen years, dragged to court by your in-laws several times and be called murderer by notable portions of society, eh? But its good to know that some wanker somewhere on the internet is adding another load on bullshit on his shoulders, clearly marking him as the bad guy for no other reason that his hunches.

Can you imagine what Mr. Schiavo is going through right now? I dont guess you have been married to a vegetable for the last fifteen years, dragged to court by your in-laws several times and be called murderer by notable portions of society, eh? But its good to know that some wanker somewhere on the internet is adding another load on bullshit on his shoulders, clearly marking him as the bad guy for no other reason that his hunches.

Amen.

Hearsay is also a court term dude. And yes, all we are getting is hearsay because no one is in the courts or us getting the up-to-date via cable from the courts or from her room.

I was referring to your stupid "err on the side of life" quote. That's hearsay, and it's just brainwashing like I said. Form an original thought, would you. I wasn't saying "hearsay" is a stupid phrase. God, your lack of intelligence scares me.

New questions for the Anti Schiavo Squad:

Why, if Mr Schiavo's intentions are anything but dutiful did he turn down a one million dollar offer to relinquish his responsibilities to his wife?

Why, if Mr. Schiavo has anything to hide, has he permitted a full autopsy before her cremation?

When will you appologize for slandering him and putting slurs on his wife's good name with your foamy mouthed defamation of her husband?

Corneliu and other extremists just proved with their answers towards the facts that they live on another planet, named: freak swastikas!

Don't pay attention to them, even in the Republican Bibble belt, people like them are seen as a extremists. They are extremists and decent, more informed people like you have to continue to show the general public how marginal such fanatical weirdos are.

Hat of to you sir :) You are a verry courageous person to debate with such fascist who think they are the voice of the people, they aren't..

All the support of the centre people goes to "ya" you!

Don't pay attention to them, even in the Republican Bibble belt, people like them are seen as a extremist beiing.
Hat of to you sir :)

What do you get when you cross "bile" with "babble" :)

Should only be a couple more days now before Mrs Schiavo gets the peace she wanted. Justice was truly served.

I agree with the latest South Park.

What do you get when you cross "bile" with "babble" :)

Should only be a couple more days now before Mrs Schiavo gets the peace she wanted. Justice was truly served.
Surely you mean it's only a couple more days before Michael Schiavo gets HIS wish granted, courtesy of the judiciary.

After she dies, he gets to collect on book deals, for sure, and he gets rid of the inconvenience called Terri.

I agree with the latest South Park.

didn't see it.

summary?

Surely you mean it's only a couple more days before Michael Schiavo gets HIS wish granted, courtesy of the judiciary.

Are you really that partisan?

After she dies, he gets to collect on book deals, for sure, and he gets rid of the inconvenience called Terri.

If he does get book deals, they are only because of the Schindlers making a big deal out of this.

As for the "inconvenience called Terri", if that is true, why did he spend 8 years going to every specialist and trying every possible therapy?

Surely you mean it's only a couple more days before Michael Schiavo gets HIS wish granted, courtesy of the judiciary.

After she dies, he gets to collect on book deals, for sure, and he gets rid of the inconvenience called Terri.


no, i'm pretty sure he meant exactly what he said.

and why are you so obsessed with the inheritance? do you honestly still think he cares about the money after he turned down the 1 million dollar offer?

no, i'm pretty sure he meant exactly what he said.

and why are you so obsessed with the inheritance? do you honestly still think he cares about the money after he turned down the 1 million dollar offer?

I'm still trying to figure out where this supposed inheritance comes from. Do people really not realize the costs associated with round-the-clock care and flying a body around the country to get it looked at by various specialists. If people are talking about insurance money, then the Schiavos apparently had insurance that doesn't actually exist in this country.

no, i'm pretty sure he meant exactly what he said.

and why are you so obsessed with the inheritance? do you honestly still think he cares about the money after he turned down the 1 million dollar offer?


What money? Do people honestly believe there is ANYTHING left from the 700,000 trust fund? Those who do must not understand the cost of medical care.

Surely you mean it's only a couple more days before Michael Schiavo gets HIS wish granted, courtesy of the judiciary.

After she dies, he gets to collect on book deals, for sure, and he gets rid of the inconvenience called Terri.


All right, of all the inane things that have been thrown out here the "book deal" theory may take the cake.

You realize Mrs. Schiavo need not be married to Mrs. Schiavo for him to sell the rights to his story -- and thereby her story? So that is idiotic.

And the idea he wants Mrs. Schiavo to die for the storyline presupposes that he was thinking of a book deal 8 years ago when he first filed with the courts for Mrs. Schiavo to be allowed to die. As all of the media attention since then is the result of the Schindlers' activities, that idea is also idiotic.

As the premise of the "book deal" theory is garbage and there isn't an ounce of evidence to support it, only a moron would believe in it.

As the premise of the "book deal" theory is garbage and there isn't an ounce of evidence to support it, only a moron would believe in it.


...

and?

Are you really that partisan?Are you really that de-sensitized to the fact that a defenseless woman is being starved to death, receiving a treatment much worse than anything Scott Peterson or any of the scum being held at Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo is getting? Are you so into the culture of death that you consider death by starvation "gentle"??

If he does get book deals, they are only because of the Schindlers making a big deal out of this.Does that explain why he rejected repeated $izable offers to just walk away and let her parents take care of her? He only gets book deals if she dies under his "care". Follow the money...oh, by the way, whatever happened to the malpractice settlement money? The answer is in George Felos' pocket.

As for the "inconvenience called Terri", if that is true, why did he spend 8 years going to every specialist and trying every possible therapy?Really? What therapy? If anything, he has done everything in his power (once he got the malpractice settlement, and the supposed request from Terri magically came back to his mind,) to prevent her from getting any therapy.

There was a moment when Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers should have discussed the possibility of disconnecting Terri...right when it happened. Once the decision was made in 1990 to preserve her life and attempt to rehabilitate Terri, Michael's shenanigans are simply a not-so-thinly-veiled attempt to murder Terri. Simple as that.

dude, we've already refuted all those points and you know it.

ignorance of the truth makes it no less true.

no, i'm pretty sure he meant exactly what he said.

and why are you so obsessed with the inheritance? do you honestly still think he cares about the money after he turned down the 1 million dollar offer?
What inheritance? I never mentioned an inheritance. I mean the book deals Michael Schiavo stands to make once she dies under his "care." You see, if he had actually taken any one of the sizable offers for him to simply walk away, he can't collect on book deals, because, frankly his story is boring without her dying, seeing how he can't portray himself (falsely) as a loving husband if he lets her parents take over.

Earth to Panhandlia?

Earth to Panhandlia? Come in Panhandlia!

Nope, Panhandlia's too far out there.

Its beyond hope.

What money? Do people honestly believe there is ANYTHING left from the 700,000 trust fund? Those who do must not understand the cost of medical care.
Especially since the $700,000 went to lawyers, not doctors.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/steinberg/cst-nws-stein30.html

Who's selling out again?

dude, we've already refuted all those points and you know it.

ignorance of the truth makes it no less true.
The only truth here, "dude", is that a woman is being murdered slowly, before our very eyes, and people are actually cheering for the murderer.

What parallel universe of non-reality do you live in?

Are you really that de-sensitized to the fact that a defenseless woman is being starved to death, receiving a treatment much worse than anything Scott Peterson or any of the scum being held at Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo is getting? Are you so into the culture of death that you consider death by starvation "gentle"??

No, I don't consider it gentle. I would consider being able to hasten her death peacefully gentle. However, thanks to right wing religious zealots such as yourself, that's not possible.


Does that explain why he rejected repeated $izable offers to just walk away and let her parents take care of her? He only gets book deals if she dies under his "care". Follow the money...oh, by the way, whatever happened to the malpractice settlement money? The answer is in George Felos' pocket.

Actually no, its used up. And there are absolutely spotless financial records on them. There was 300k awarded to Michael and 700k awarded to take care of Terry. The Guardian ad litum for Terry appointed by Gov. Bush looked into it and could find no foul play.

Further, maybe for YOU this would be just about money, but for Michael its about Terry. Perhaps you weren't aware that the Schindlers testified in court that they didn't what Terry's wishes were--even had she dictated them to her family (gee I wonder why she didn't)--they would keep her alive no matter what. That later said that they never said it, but it is part of the court record. This is also part of the GAL's report to Jeb.


Really? What therapy? If anything, he has done everything in his power (once he got the malpractice settlement, and the supposed request from Terri magically came back to his mind,) to prevent her from getting any therapy.

Watch FOX News much? They also claim that he never got her an EEG or a CT scan. For the first four years he fought side by side with the Schindlers, coming close to being banned from the hospital because he thought hte staff wasn't treating Terry well enough. He went to CA with her so she could get a thalamic stimulator implant (which is why she cannot have an MRI. . .metal and magnets don't mix) which they thought would work. It was only when he realized that she had no choice that he gave up and gave in to the wishes she had dictated to him and other family members.


There was a moment when Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers should have discussed the possibility of disconnecting Terri...right when it happened. Once the decision was made in 1990 to preserve her life and attempt to rehabilitate Terri, Michael's shenanigans are simply a not-so-thinly-veiled attempt to murder Terri. Simple as that.

You see, it doesn't work that way. You don't know instantly that there is no chance at rehab. You could potentially not find that out for years. Terry's wishes were that she wouldn't want to be kept alive if there was no chance for recovery--one Michael realized that there was no chance, he moved to fulfill her wishes.

You are obviously not a medical professional, not well versed in end of life issues, and not well versed in the law and history of this case.

What inheritance? I never mentioned an inheritance. I mean the book deals Michael Schiavo stands to make once she dies under his "care." You see, if he had actually taken any one of the sizable offers for him to simply walk away, he can't collect on book deals, because, frankly his story is boring without her dying, seeing how he can't portray himself (falsely) as a loving husband if he lets her parents take over.

So in 1994 he just sat back and said "Hey, I should try to kill her so her parnets can fight me in court and ten years later I can cash in on it with a book deal."
You are so desperate to force your views on others and to portray him as a villain you will grasp at any straws.

Especially since the $700,000 went to lawyers, not doctors.


That 700k was earmarked especially for her care. The lawyers fees had to come out of the 300k awarded to Michael.

http://www.miami.edu/ethics/schiavo/wolfson%27s%20report.pdf

For those of you who want the link.

The only truth here, "dude", is that a woman is being murdered slowly, before our very eyes, and people are actually cheering for the murderer.

Yeah.

Those blood-thirsty bastards on the US Supreme Court just can't wait for Mrs. Schiavo to die so they can cash in on their book deals. :rolleyes:

You need therapy. Really. Get help.

This whole case is awful in so many ways.
1) several people argue that the husband doesn't care about Terri since he got remarried, and therefore he shouldn't have a say in what happens to her. Obviously, if he didn't care about her, he would have given up by now. He's spending thousands of dollars in lawyers fees and for fees for keeping her alive. Not only that, but imagine the emotional trauma this is bringing to him and his new wife. He cares so much, that he is willing to fight for what he feels Terri would have wanted.
2) At one point, the government tried to make the law specifically for her, stating that in Terri's case, the parents should be able to reinsert the feeding tube. Since when does our Constitution allow for personal laws to be made for an individual family? And the national government overriding the state's rights? Individual state power is a very important part of our check and balance system
3) If the government spent a fraction of the amount of energy they are spending in this case on the health care, and well being of the millions of conscious people in this nation, healthcare, etc would be a lot better off
4) Since this case really heated up, how much more have you heard about it than the current war, the deficit, the terrible job market, healthcare, education budget cuts across the nation, or the drilling in Alaska?

So in 1994 he just sat back and said "Hey, I should try to kill her so her parnets can fight me in court and ten years later I can cash in on it with a book deal."
You are so desperate to force your views on others and to portray him as a villain you will grasp at any straws.


Panhan doesnt care about facts, he keeps acting as a false witness against Mr Schiavo again and again, claiming that he was going to get life insurance, claiming he wouldnt let her be autopsied because he was "hididng evidence" that he supposedly beat her into a coma or something.

He also used to claim that he wanted her to die so he could keep the court settlement earmarked for her care.

Remember, mr schiavo turned down a million dollars cash to walk away. Reportedly ten million also.

As panhand's instances of false witness keep getting made ludicrous by facts and evidence, he makes up new ones.

Now mr schiavo wants a book deal....
except for the catch... he doesnt really want a book deal, this is something panhan made up in his head.

Even though mrs schiavo didnt want to be a vegetable, and even though she is permanently brain dead, and even though her husband has been devoted enough not to divorce her and leave her a vegetable for decades, even though he's gone through alll of this horror just to be sure her wishes are carried out, panhan *hates* him.

He truly hates everyone involved, the laywers, the judges, the schiavo family, probably even mrs schiavo's sister who testified that she wouldnt have wanted to be a vegetable for decades.

Panhan is simply filled with hate, he has no good reason for it.

All right, of all the inane things that have been thrown out here the "book deal" theory may take the cake.

You realize Mrs. Schiavo need not be married to Mrs. Schiavo for him to sell the rights to his story -- and thereby her story? So that is idiotic.

And the idea he wants Mrs. Schiavo to die for the storyline presupposes that he was thinking of a book deal 8 years ago when he first filed with the courts for Mrs. Schiavo to be allowed to die. As all of the media attention since then is the result of the Schindlers' activities, that idea is also idiotic.

As the premise of the "book deal" theory is garbage and there isn't an ounce of evidence to support it, only a moron would believe in it.


Idiotic garbage, fantasy with no basis in reality? Factual errors and outright lies?

From PANHANDLIA???

YOU MUST BE KIDDING.

Idiotic garbage, fantasy with no basis in reality? Factual errors and outright lies?

From PANHANDLIA???

YOU MUST BE KIDDING.


aw crap, you killed my sarcasm detector.

that's gonna cost a lot to repair :p

lol! 40 more posts till we hit 1000 in this thread. is that a record?

aw crap, you killed my sarcasm detector.

that's gonna cost a lot to repair :p

color=white] lol! 40 more posts till we hit 1000 in this thread. is that a record?/color]


Maybe we'll get to 1300 posts (thread dies) at the same time terry schiavo dies.

Now *that* would be *awesome*

Well, the same time her body dies. Terry Schiavo the human being has been dead for a long time.

Are you so into the culture of death that you consider death by starvation "gentle"??

There's that CuLt Of DeAtH again.

SpEaK tO mE oF tHe CuLt Of DeAtH, mOrTaL.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152032,00.html

Terri Shiavo is dead

And her parents were denied to be at her side in her final hours :'(

May she rest in peace

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152032,00.html

Terri Shiavo is dead

And her parents were denied to be at her side in her final hours :'(

May she rest in peace


You must have missed it but somone posted an article about how a lady missed being at her grandfather's side because she had to go through security checkpoints at the hospice where schiavo was staying.

Mrs Schiavo's parents didnt deserve to be at her side for what they put her and her husband through and the great indignity they brough on everyone involved.

Mrs Schiavo's parents didnt deserve to be at her side for what they put her and her husband through and the great indignity they brough on everyone involved.

:upyours:

You are a very uncaring person. You have now lost most of the respect you have earned from me.

:upyours:

You are a very uncaring person. You have now lost most of the respect you have earned from me.


Uncaring? Her parents went in front of a judge and said "before they took out the feeding tube she said 'i want to live' "

They were out-of-touch with reality and liars.

These people called their 41 year old daughter "my little baby."

Terry schiavo did not want to be kept a vegetable and they said in open court that regardless of her wishes, they insisted that she be kept as a vegetable.

terry schiavo was a doll to them that they'd dress up and they made a media circus out of her misfortune.

If my parents ever did something so callous and disgraceful I would hope somone did much worse than merely barred them from my bedside.

After the horrible slander they are responsible for putting on mr schiavo's good name - WHO ONLY WORKED TO FUFILL HIS WIFES WISHES, AS A DUTIFUL, HONEST HUSBAND - they deserve nothing. They are slandering media publicity pigs. I hope *they* dont get any of these falsely rumored book deals.

They still deserved to be at her bedside. After all she was their daughter.

They still deserved to be at her bedside. After all she was their daughter.


Perhaps if they'd shown some affection for her and been good parents who let their dying daughter die with dignity instead of a tabloid circus then they'd have deserved to be at her bedside.

After all that they'd put her and her husband through they really had no place there.

Perhaps if they'd shown some affection for her and been good parents who let their dying daughter die with dignity instead of a tabloid circus then they'd have deserved to be at her bedside.

After all that they'd put her and her husband through they really had no place there.


i second that

thirded

*observes moment of silence for Terry Shiavo*

I am happy that she is finally resting in peace and that her psycotic family did not get their wish to keep her trapped in a useless body for another few decades.

:upyours:

You are a very uncaring person. You have now lost most of the respect you have earned from me.


Your immaturity is showing.

May wish to have that looked at -- its pretty nasty and appears to be spreading throughout your brain.

Are you really that de-sensitized to the fact that a defenseless woman is being starved to death, receiving a treatment much worse than anything Scott Peterson or any of the scum being held at Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo is getting? Are you so into the culture of death that you consider death by starvation "gentle"??

I think that a person's wishes should be carried out, and the person most likely to know someone's wishes is the person who *SHE GAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO*.

Does that explain why he rejected repeated $izable offers to just walk away and let her parents take care of her? He only gets book deals if she dies under his "care". Follow the money...oh, by the way, whatever happened to the malpractice settlement money? The answer is in George Felos' pocket.

He only gets book deals if she dies under his care? You are kidding, right? Are you really that naive?

Meanwhile, the *only* reason to deny the huge offers is because he believes that he is really carrying out her wishes.

Really? What therapy?

The therapy he got her for 8 years before ever trying to remove the feeding tube. You know, the time he spent flying her around the country to every specialist he could find in the hopes that someone could do something for her.

There was a moment when Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers should have discussed the possibility of disconnecting Terri...right when it happened. Once the decision was made in 1990 to preserve her life and attempt to rehabilitate Terri, Michael's shenanigans are simply a not-so-thinly-veiled attempt to murder Terri. Simple as that.

Ok, so it would've been better if he had not even tried. Look, he tried for *8 years* to get therapy. Every doctor told him that it was hopeless. At that point, he couldn't go against her wishes.

Your immaturity is showing.

May wish to have that looked at -- its pretty nasty and appears to be spreading throughout your brain.

Don't even get me started Cat-Tribe. I'm not a very good mood and when this happens, it takes me hours to calm down if I start going on a diatribe.

thirded

*observes moment of silence for Terry Shiavo*

I am happy that she is finally resting in peace and that her psycotic family did not get their wish to keep her trapped in a useless body for another few decades.


Indeed *moment of silence*

This was a very clear case of our justice system providing real justice.

It is a lovely coup de grace that her parents were not permitted to be there when she died. They deserve a lot worse than simply missing that.

Indeed *moment of silence*

This was a very clear case of our justice system providing real justice.

It is a lovely coup de grace that her parents were not permitted to be there when she died. They deserve a lot worse than simply missing that.

:upyours:

How would you feel if you weren't by the bedside of someone you loved?

:upyours:

How would you feel if you weren't by the bedside of someone you loved?

Well because of the righttolifers and the security measures a woman missed her grandfather dying.....

:upyours:

How would you feel if you weren't by the bedside of someone you loved?


Perhaps they should have considered being by the bedside of someone they loved before they made a tabloid circus out of her misfortune and dragged her and her husband through the mud.

Those people are sensationalist media hungry swine, it would have been a disgrace to mrs schiavo to have let them even near her in her final moments.

What inheritance? I never mentioned an inheritance. I mean the book deals Michael Schiavo stands to make once she dies under his "care." You see, if he had actually taken any one of the sizable offers for him to simply walk away, he can't collect on book deals, because, frankly his story is boring without her dying, seeing how he can't portray himself (falsely) as a loving husband if he lets her parents take over.

Wow. I don't think I've ever hated someone for being stupid before. Until now. Do you honestly believe he wouldn't have gotten the same number of offers? Are you really THAT stupid? My God, your views come straight from Conservative Brainwashing 101. It's disturbing how stupid you really are. Please, for the love of all that is holy, never talk in public again.

Well because of the righttolifers and the security measures a woman missed her grandfather dying.....

And how do you think that woman feels?

Perhaps they should have considered being by the bedside of someone they loved before they made a tabloid circus out of her misfortune and dragged her and her husband through the mud.

Those people are sensationalist media hungry swine, it would have been a disgrace to mrs schiavo to have let them even near her in her final moments.

Answer the question!

How do you think the parents are feeling for not being by her side when she died?

Wow. I don't think I've ever hated someone for being stupid before. Until now. Do you honestly believe he wouldn't have gotten the same number of offers? Are you really THAT stupid? My God, your views come straight from Conservative Brainwashing 101. It's disturbing how stupid you really are. Please, for the love of all that is holy, never talk in public again.
Just because you disagree does not mean you have to flame the poster. Their opinion is just that. You offered no facts to counter what was said.

Just because you disagree does not mean you have to flame the poster. Their opinion is just that. You offered no facts to counter what was said.

I believe there have been many many many facts posted to counter what he said by many posters on this thread (including myself). I have given up trying to explain, as have most people, because nothing goes through that thick skull of his. If you had taken the time to read this thread thoroughly, you would know that.

Answer the question!

How do you think the parents are feeling for not being by her side when she died?


Who knows how those people's minds work.

A normal person would feel lousy.

A normal person doesnt dress their 41 year old brain dead daughter's body up like a doll and call it "my little baby"

A normal person doesnt go hunting for a tabloid circus.

A normal person doesnt drag their daughter's body and her husband through the mud for years.



EDIT: They could have been by her bedside but they traded that for six years of dressing her body up like a doll &c. It was a trade off that they made.

*DRIVIL*

ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!!!

ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!!!


Originally Posted by Corneliu
Answer the question!

How do you think the parents are feeling for not being by her side when she died?




Who knows how those people's minds work.

A normal person would feel lousy.

A normal person doesnt dress their 41 year old brain dead daughter's body up like a doll and call it "my little baby"

A normal person doesnt go hunting for a tabloid circus.

A normal person doesnt drag their daughter's body and her husband through the mud for years.



EDIT: They could have been by her bedside but they traded that for six years of dressing her body up like a doll &c. It was a trade off that they made.

*more drivil

Are you going to answer the question or not?

I believe there have been many many many facts posted to counter what he said by many posters on this thread (including myself). I have given up trying to explain, as have most people, because nothing goes through that thick skull of his. If you had taken the time to read this thread thoroughly, you would know that.
Care to enlighten me? Somehow I do not feel like reading nearly 1,000 posts to find where you explained. You say he would have received the same number of book offers; the original poster said he would not. Obviously nobody can prove they are correct in that argument, but at least the original post had a few reasons given for the opinion. Responding the way you did, at the least, just invites trouble for yourself because it looks very much like flaming.

If you had said “Do you honestly believe he wouldn't have gotten the same number of offers? Are you really THAT stupid?” and left it at that, I would have kept silent. The rest was entirely unneccessary.

ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!!!

Optimistic thinking: trying to figure out how this could have happened and what they did wrong.
Realistic thinking: they feel shit and blame everyone but themselves

However, *if* the husband told the truth their feelings don't matter at all - since they didn't care about the wishes and feelings of their daughter.

Are you going to answer the question or not?

I answered very clearly.

You asked me how I thought mrs schiavo's parents felt.

I think that a normal person would have felt bad, I assume that they felt bad but they demonstrate some severe emotional problems so I do not know how they really feel.

Recall though, I do not sympathize with them. My sympathy goes to the girl who had to miss her grandfather's (who wasnt a vegetable for fifteen years) death because the schindlers decided to create a tabloid circus to indulge their craziness regarding mrs schiavo.

Thats who gets my sympathy.

Again, they chose to trade six years of dress up games and tabloid crap for her last five minutes and they have no excuse.

And how do you think that woman feels?

The answer is obvious.

You can bet she is not a fan of the right to lifers now.

What should the Schindlers expect? They make the man out to be Satan, the character attack him anyway possible. The fight him for 8 years and then they expect generosity?

I would hope this affair will go away but it won't.

I will be curious as to see what mr Schiavo does in the future. I have a feeling he may hide but time will tell.

However, I will bet you a soda, we have not heard the last of the Schindlers. They will be pimping themselves for the movement now.

Time will tell......

he will forever be at the top of the Schindlers list - sorry I had to go there

he will forever be at the top of the Schindlers list - sorry I had to go there

Ewww ewww I know what this is! It's humor! :fluffle:

You are probably the first out of all these posts. ;)

South Park had a show for this affair! The one time I miss it! :(

Don't even get me started Cat-Tribe. I'm not a very good mood and when this happens, it takes me hours to calm down if I start going on a diatribe.

Given your juvenile ranting after this post, apparently you failed to calm down.

Ask the nice people to fetch your medicine.

And you should apologize to New Granada.

I know you won't. But you should.

Given your juvenile ranting after this post, apparently you failed to calm down.

Ask the nice people to fetch your medicine.

And you should apologize to New Granada.

I know you won't. But you should.


he doesnt need to apologize to me, he and panhan need to apologize to mr schiavo and to the judges and lawyers involved.

It is those people who they've made up sick lies and whatnot about and borne false witness against.

They ought also to apologize to mrs schiavo up in the hereafter they so fancy for helping to prolong her body's vegetation after it was made clear and convincing that it was against her wishes.

:upyours:

How would you feel if you weren't by the bedside of someone you loved?

I could be wrong, but haven't you argued that people should take responsibility for their actions? Mr. Schiavo was with his wife when she died. Because of the Schindler's actions, he was not able to be in a room with them. If they had not acted as they did, they would have been in the room. It is their own actions that caused this result.

I'm sure they actually feel angry and saddened. What they should feel is shame.

I answered very clearly.

You asked me how I thought mrs schiavo's parents felt.

I think that a normal person would have felt bad, I assume that they felt bad but they demonstrate some severe emotional problems so I do not know how they really feel.

Now your saying they're not normal? Don't let Zooke hear you say that. She'll have your head for breakfast.

Now your saying they're not normal? Don't let Zooke hear you say that. She'll have your head for breakfast.


Did zooke dress a 41 year old brain dead woman up like a doll and call her "her little baby." and then insist on a tabloid circus and spread lies and false rumors?

Dont insult zooke by the comparison. You've slurred and slandered ENOUGH PEOPLE.

Given your juvenile ranting after this post, apparently you failed to calm down.

Ask the nice people to fetch your medicine.

And you should apologize to New Granada.

I know you won't. But you should.

How about we all apologize for the attacks done in this thread?

And Yes I would Cat-Tribe. I would apologize to him. DOn't antagonize me right now because I really am not in the mood for it.

New Granada sorry for the attacks.

Cat-Tribe, I also expect an apology for your attacks on me. BTW: I haven't been on medication in years. The last I was on medication, it made me worse, not better.

Did zooke dress a 41 year old brain dead woman up like a doll and call her "her little baby." and then insist on a tabloid circus and spread lies and false rumors?

Dont insult zooke by the comparison. You've slurred and slandered ENOUGH PEOPLE.

No she just lost a very close relative years ago by making a decision with her family and their daughter's fiance to pull the plug. She knows what those parents are going through and stated that she would do the samething if she was in their shoes.

Who slurred who?

How does he stand to gain from her death?

He is now free to marry his second wife, the one he has kids with.

He is now free to marry his second wife, the one he has kids with.

He could have divorced Terri at any time and done that. The only reason that he wouldn't have done that is if he truly cared for her and believed he was carrying out her wishes.