NationStates Jolt Archive

Pretty sure your in, ST. Welcome to 1850

Thanks! Sorry I had to keep bug''n you guys so much...

How does 20 million sound for population?

What is the timeline for this?

1 Real Life Day = what?

Don't know about the timeline

yaarg, sorry for being away, life, anyways, can someone PM me the updates to the map? claims andall?

Don't know about the timeline

Well, does anyone have a rough idea?

I think

1RL Day should = 1 week

such timescales only really work when there's nothing happening....

and when there's nothing happening, it's useually because no one has the opportunity to do anything....

so just wing it. fluid time ftw :)

as for claims.. well, Terror Incognitia claimed stuff to my east there [including, gasp! coastline] his claim's a page or two back...

and there was someone who claimed something in the area of Africa and the middle east or some such some time ago who is apparently not on the map yet...

oh yeah, and Serbia and some random island i forget got annexed/colonized/whatever.

Well, does anyone have a rough idea?

I think

1RL Day should = 1 week
Responding with quote
Time doesn't travel in lines!
I generally through the 1wk=1yr out the window when I start war threads...
If not, I better hurry before it becomes 1855 and everyone starts getting Enfields...

In Fluid Time, I could pretty much whip any nation pre-1852
(Not that I need to fight pre-1852 to win)

And madagascar isn't some random island.
Dio I have to start a war thread when nobody is on the other end?

I think 1 day=1week is a good time, save for war threads, those should happen outside that fluid time
Also, on annexing territories? how will we do this? do we just make a post explaining why? or we go to war with that territory and get someone to RP the territory in question?
Updated map:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/quantumf8/1850Worldmap3key-2.jpg

I did two posts explaining the annexation of Serbia.
The first attempts were truly woeful so I rewrote them to explain resistance, background and events afterwards.

I have only claimed 3 initial territories thus far.
May I add Madagascar and Malaysia, and Thailand/Siam?
*Wonders how he got Burma

**Leaves Kampu-Chea incursions down the Makong river for later

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t238/PROHT/claims1850.jpg

I thought Tanzania had been claimed (I know Uganda isn't though)

I have thickened out the details regarding the annexiation of Serbia

The Serbian Army was well trained and equipped but the Generals and Soldiers bore a loathing for the rule of an arrogant King and so welcomed the chance to overthrow him. The people were of the same mindset.

You really should get someone to RP resistance. You merely cannot do it yourself, or it's unfair - that basically means anyone could just say "I invaded half of Africa, it was hard etc. but I did it.". It's a chore I know, but really it's the only way to prevent annexing of half the world in a few days.

I'll be making a factbook for Turkey, Saudi, Oman, UAE and South Africa shortly.

You really should get someone to RP resistance. You merely cannot do it yourself, or it's unfair - that basically means anyone could just say "I invaded half of Africa, it was hard etc. but I did it.". It's a chore I know, but really it's the only way to prevent annexing of half the world in a few days.

I'll be making a factbook for Turkey, Saudi, Oman, UAE and South Africa shortly.

I'm a realist when it comes to these things and I would welcome someone to RP a Serbian underground movement, but I assumed that everybody would be too busy with their own affairs to bother with a minor unification (aka Annexiation) If no one else will RP then I'll do it myself, like I said realist. The obvious problem is that this invasion was almost demanded by the people and so any underground movement would be small.

I'm a realist when it comes to these things and I would welcome someone to RP a Serbian underground movement, but I assumed that everybody would be too busy with their own affairs to bother with a minor unification (aka Annexiation) If no one else will RP then I'll do it myself, like I said realist. The obvious problem is that this invasion was almost demanded by the people and so any underground movement would be small.

What I meant was that you should have someone RP Serbia in your attack on Serbia if you want to conform to the normal rules of earths - which means someone else picks up the RP and tries to defend Serbia. They may choose to surrender, they may not, but it's probably best to RP invading the country before thinking about underground movement.

Of course, that may not be the rules of this earth. However, if it isn't, I and others could just RP annexing many countries with little resistance and the map would soon be empty. It depends on what the rules are.

formal rules are... lacking... for a number of reasons.

rule one, however, remains "don't be an arse" :)

always a good starting point, no?

[no, that's not a comment on anything said so far, just something to keep in mind.]


i do agree about RPing where possible though.

What I meant was that you should have someone RP Serbia in your attack on Serbia if you want to conform to the normal rules of earths - which means someone else picks up the RP and tries to defend Serbia. They may choose to surrender, they may not, but it's probably best to RP invading the country before thinking about underground movement.

Of course, that may not be the rules of this earth. However, if it isn't, I and others could just RP annexing many countries with little resistance and the map would soon be empty. It depends on what the rules are.

Well, nobody volunteered and the Annexiation went ahead. I asked twice if it was okay and twice recieved no answer so I just went ahead and invaded. If you want to RP them, I can wind the clock back to the eve of the attack. Bear in mind that virtually the entire Serbian Army supports my invasion.

Well, nobody volunteered and the Annexiation went ahead. I asked twice if it was okay and twice recieved no answer so I just went ahead and invaded. If you want to RP them, I can wind the clock back to the eve of the attack. Bear in mind that virtually the entire Serbian Army supports my invasion.

yeah, that whole "army supports invasion" bit is highly unlikely, and where most people will object, probably.

and hey, if no one wanted to take you up on it***, then it wasn't 'possible' to RP it, the net effect wasn't ridiculous, and thus... no worries, yah?

now, about the world's population..... hehehe [entirely different issue]

edit: *** depending, of course, on how long you left it... asking twice in an hour and then doing it is probably not enough, but leaving it a whole week would be just silly. [if I'd been paying attention, I'd Know how big the gap was :p ] i doubt you did either though, yah? so no worries. just thought I'd clarify that.

So I assume I can remain in control of Serbia?

With regards to the world's population, I just think, be realistic. If you control (like I do) a country like Croatia, then it's population won't be massive but on the other hand a country like France or China would have a large population

I'm going to guess Serbia's population at 3 million.

So I assume I can remain in control of Serbia?

With regards to the world's population, I just think, be realistic. If you control (like I do) a country like Croatia, then it's population won't be massive but on the other hand a country like France or China would have a large population

I'm going to guess Serbia's population at 3 million.

Consider the population is 10 million now, I'd say 1.5 million max.

my biggest problem is france+britain+india adding up to a ... very large population. and china + whatever being even bigger. it's realistic for the geographical areas, yes.... but... there are some serious weaknesses that have to be built into the thing for it to not be horribly unrealistically broken [not least of which is the number of those people who must be supplying food for the rest of them.]

multipul nations with populations in excess of 300 million is getting... crazy.

not for the Teritory, exactly, but ... feh... it just doesn't mesh, is all.

Consider the population is 10 million now, I'd say 1.5 million max.

I can live with 1.5 million

With regards to a large nation of ridiculously large populations we could use the Tzarist Russian Empire as an example. Big in number and territory but the people were hideously poor and the Army suffered from an extreme lack of equipment as well as morale. Just a suggestion

or the British empire, where the core [Britain] was high density, high tech, while the vast majority of the rest of it was either low density, low tech, or [often] both, with far more of the population living outside the core.

then you get china, which had simply expanded to the limits of practical control. it had neighbors who weren't exactly friendly [apparently went to war with them every now and then mostly so they didn't get any ideas about invading] and was slowly sort of... oozing... south a bit. anywho, it's tech was low, and the introduction of railroads and telegraphs may have allowed it to grow further. it did have it's internal strife, millennia of tradition, and a number of other factors to over come though. only reason it ran as well as it did was the bureaucracy.

things like that. Empires got that big. simple nations tended...well... not to.

edit: i'm amazed this makes as much sense as it does, given how wasted i am right now. can't sleep. can't function awake. gah.

I'm not the kind to bitch when I get a bunch of new lands, but since when did I get Bangeladesh, New Zealand, and Tasmania? H

Very true, Empires tend not to function that well as a single unit. And there is no way a country could arm an army of 20,000,000 to a high standard at this stage of world history.

So how are we figuring GDP?

Do we need GDP?

WE need some kind of figure on how much money we have, otherwise you just get money flying everywhere.

Well, how does one normally work out GDP?

Usually you just have the figure, go to cia.gov and bam theres the GDP for any given nation but where this is 150 years ago who knows?

The Formula for working it out is way too complicated. How do we decide the wealth of a nation then?

I'm not the kind to bitch when I get a bunch of new lands, but since when did I get Bangeladesh, New Zealand, and Tasmania? H
*Forgot Nepal and Sri Lanka*
That?
That is planned expansion rather than actual land. So it isn't "Free land".
Since last time I asked for Siam, I ended up with Burma, and missing parts of Indonesia.
So I made a map to clarify the land I actually wanted thisd time.

While at it, I shaded in you planned plots of land.

Was wondering what would happen to Sri Lanka though, so I colored it both colors.
Perhaps that can be discussed via further TGs or by starting diplomatic relations.

Though, if we started also RPing the opposition in our lands grabs, that may draw too much suspicion...

Perhaps I should have used colored arrows?

I have only claimed 3 initial territories thus far.
May I add Madagascar and Malaysia, and Thailand/Siam?
*Wonders how he got Burma

**Leaves Kampu-Chea incursions down the Makong river for later

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t238/PROHT/claims1850.jpg

How'd Car get Nepal and Bhutan?

He didn't, not yet at least...

better 'invasions' map, may be innaccurate (http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t238/PROHT/1850Worldmap.jpg)

I suppose the above would be the map as of NS year 1851-1853
Assuming our invasions are successful.

I could have envoys in Madagascar in about one NS fortnight by clipper ship, and the rest of my 'fleet' in an NS month.

My other expansions could be started in an NS weekend to mobilize the troops.
By the time news reaches Europe, it would already be over. (with uprising excluded)

We're all developed countries, it is going to be difficult for us to lose. Keep in mind that is my Asia/Oceania expansion plans.. hee hee. I have others.

He didn't, not yet at least...

better 'invasions' map, may be innaccurate (http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t238/PROHT/1850Worldmap.jpg)

I suppose the above would be the map as of NS year 1851-1853
Assuming our invasions are successful.

Can I see a post that has him invading them, or one where I invade Siam?

In other words, what are those arrows for?

'Cuz I haven't attacked anyone yet.

And Car, beating Nepal or Bhutan might not be hard, but beating me will.

That big arrow pointing to South Africa looks mighty threatening considering it's my claimed land (someone forgot to put it on the map, though the arrow seems to be in my colour...indicating I'm invading?) :p Who's planning to invade there, or am I right and do you assume it's me? I decided to claim South Africa, but I'm RPing it as a colony, thats all.

Also, again, surely we should have to RP at least some resistance (as in someone else being the defenders, and us being the aggressors). I mean, I'd love to just take over the world because all nations have leaders who the military hate, but then this earth would get so boring. That is my opinion anyway,

Cor check your TGs.

Or you could try peaceful expansion and form a sort of commonwealth system. Like Hak and I are doing. Mutual aide.

I thought you also held Middle east, so I drew a line from there to SA to signify it as your intention to have it.
(That is supposed to be you)
=====
I thought you wanted a skirmish on the Vietnam border?

Yes yes, the resistance, who wants to RP the resistance?
(Calls Bangladesh, Bhutan and Nepal if Car takes RPing madagascar, Siam and Malaysia)

I thought you also held Middle east, so I drew a line from there to SA to signify it as your intention to have it.
(That is supposed to be you)
=====
I thought you wanted a skirmish on the Vietnam border?

Oh, sorry, I just realized this is "planned" stuff.

And replied, Car.

I thought you also held Middle east, so I drew a line from there to SA to signify it as your intention to have it.
(That is supposed to be you)
=====
I thought you wanted a skirmish on the Vietnam border?

Yes yes, the resistance, who wants to RP the resistance?
(Calls Bangladesh, Bhutan and Nepal if Car takes RPing madagascar, Siam and Malaysia)

Yeah, I have the Middle East, Turkey and South Africa - I plan to expand into Africa from South Africa, as it's a bit squashed near my mainland In asia.

Yeah, I have the Middle East, Turkey and South Africa - I plan to expand into Africa from South Africa, as it's a bit squashed near my mainland In asia.

Hon, don't be too cocky.

Look who has got Mesopotamia and the Levant.


btw, I plan to use Martinique to expand into the caribean and mexico

Yeah, I have the Middle East, Turkey and South Africa - I plan to expand into Africa from South Africa, as it's a bit squashed near my mainland In asia.

Do you want do divide all the land beneath my territory up? It might save a bloody war, since i was planning on moving down thataway as well.

And has the RP thread started yet?

yes.

for the nth time.

[only nth because i haven't been counting them and it's been more than one or two, or feels like it.]

Okay, I'll have my factbook up by later tonight.

I presume nobody minds if I colonise Western Sahara?

as in, the desert?

why?

also, how?

so confused.

Does anyone have any good sites on naval war ships (Crew size, arms, etc)?

And my factbook:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=531260

Can I have Sweden, Norway, Iceland and Greenland please?

And whats the rule of thumb for GDP's? or do I just Make stuff up as long as its reasonable?

Can I have Sweden, Norway, Iceland and Greenland please?

And whats the rule of thumb for GDP's? or do I just Make stuff up as long as its reasonable?

Its 1850...

Noone really knows GDP yet. They just base it all on Industrial Capacity.

Its 1850...

Noone really knows GDP yet. They just base it all on Industrial Capacity.

where would I find that?

where would I find that?

Its historical. in 1850 Brits had biggest industry by far, USA had a bit, and france and germany had alot too. The nations you took... not alot, but not a little. Its not actual numbers.

Its historical. in 1850 Brits had biggest industry by far, USA had a bit, and france and germany had alot too. The nations you took... not alot, but not a little. Its not actual numbers.

So Basically..I have to guess?

So Basically..I have to guess?

For your countries you would have ample insutry for domestic needs, but for military and such you need brits or someone else to help.

For your countries you would have ample insutry for domestic needs, but for military and such you need brits or someone else to help.

I'll probably have a few wee ships for the navy and a Defence force much like Japans is today Sweden were a major war player right up to the 17th Centuary so I'd say I have enough for a "moderate" military but obviously nothing like the size of the UK;

So who is Britain in this RP since I'm going to have to sweet talk them here?

Hey, on the invasion map, you're missing my invasion ofUruguay (( still looking for someone to RP uruguay to make it fair)) and my colonization of angola.

and I was really confused on that third map but I know this: Bhutan is a territory of china on previous maps, the mess up is with nepal/bangaladesh

feh, and i could have had my 4-8-4s and 4-8-2s if i'd wanted. they just would have been older style freight engines built for hills and such [though not sharp bends]

there's even a 2-10-2 floating around sometime in the relevant decade... more wheels just means more grip and thus the ability to pull heavier loads [or on steeper gradients] without slipping. not really any faster or more powerful though, and it has it's downsides.


anywho, yeah: Industrial Capacity is a more relevant measure than GDP at this point, along with raw materials...

as for guessing based on RL? errr, not really. someone somewhere along the way said "use RL populations", despite the fact that it fairly obviously didn't work once you looked at people's claims, and the idea won't die because it gives some people a lot of population.

this is based on your NS nation, more than anything... or how you'd like it to be, at least. if, based on the geography, your population [which is also sorta based on the geography] whatever fictitious history your nation has in this world, and the tech level [RL 1850 equivalent] you can reasonably justify having something... you can have it.

be aware, of course, that everything has it's up and down sides though :)

in this case, industry needs steal to build, a steady supply of coal and water to run, as well as the raw materials for the relevant product, the people to work it, enough Agricultural capacity to support those workers [that's a big one. you've got to have enough men and [the right sort] of machines to feed the people working in your factories, and factories in this era Do still need a lot of people in them. among other things, i believe the assembly line is not used within a given factory to a level where it would actually make a scrap of difference.]

railways also help industrialization a lot, but you need industrialization [or to buy the (many, expensive) elements from your neighbors] before you can have railways in the first place. and railways need iron, coal or wood, water, land, and a number of other things. and men to run them, of course.

and then there's the smoke. and the sewage systems. things of that nature. don't take Them into account, and your industrialization process will collapse, as so many people in so small a space are highly vulnerable to plague if the sanitation systems are not good enough.


the list goes on and on and on and on. now, you don't nessicaraly have to work out every little detail, but you do have to keep these things in mind when designing your nation's economy... which, by the by, also impacts on it's government and society, and vice versa. none of these elements are self contained or isolated.

so, one starts with guesswork much like timber, and carves it into the shape of a viable nation by way of further thought, tweaking, and balancing.

ehh, at least, that's what i do. sometimes takes me a while to end up wtih a finished product [my fact book at the moment is pretty sketchy, for example, though i'm slowly fleshing it out] but... *shrugs*

I created regional maps for the RP, since the global map seems to be crunched up. Their on the 1850 Thread page, so tell me if there are any errors.

By the way, the thread page is now updated. Put up and post your factbooks in there, so I don't have to hunt for them.

The link incase you forgot -

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12803103#post12803103

as in, the desert?

why?

also, how?

so confused.

It's a country by the coast
It's for prestige
and it's conveniently located for my ships to stop and refuel before attempting to go around the Cape or the Horn

It's the 1850s, do we need a reason to colonize stuff other than more land/prestige? ? I sayNO! It's the colonialist era! Manifest destiny! **ck those commies and anarchists! VIVA IMPERIALISMO!:D




And thus we see why africa and latin america suck on a globalized world-scale. as the above is the mind set of most nations at this time, sadly =/ More land= good, regardless of the long-run,which is really the reason for the Rwandan massacre, misguided colonialism..

ehh... there's a Lot more elements to it than That. but i'm not going to debate that here :D

Cazelia, my north American geography is pretty poor, name wise... where are you actually invading there?

empty territory next to you? or myself? or Kanami? something else I've managed to miss?


on the colonization of whatever-it-was-Sahara, "It's a country by the coast" does manage to render the rest of my questions irrelevant. i was thinking of the desert, as i said :D

Yeah Western Sahara
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=544dlpf

How else would I colonise it?

I'm annexing Uganda and Mozambique. Anyone want to RP the resistance? I was thinking of relativly little resistance in the Mozambique annexation, but plenty of fighting in Uganda.

I'm annexing Uganda and Mozambique. Anyone want to RP the resistance? I was thinking of relativly little resistance in the Mozambique annexation, but plenty of fighting in Uganda.
I'll do Mozambique if someone else does Uganda. I'm better at RP'ing weak nations.

I'll probably have a few wee ships for the navy and a Defence force much like Japans is today Sweden were a major war player right up to the 17th Centuary so I'd say I have enough for a "moderate" military but obviously nothing like the size of the UK;

So who is Britain in this RP since I'm going to have to sweet talk them here?


Guess who.

I'll do Mozambique if someone else does Uganda. I'm better at RP'ing weak nations.

All-right. I'll get the thread started later today.

I thought you also held Middle east, so I drew a line from there to SA to signify it as your intention to have it.
(That is supposed to be you)
=====
I thought you wanted a skirmish on the Vietnam border?

Yes yes, the resistance, who wants to RP the resistance?
(Calls Bangladesh, Bhutan and Nepal if Car takes RPing madagascar, Siam and Malaysia)


I will. Once my war in another RP is through, I can be fully commited to it. Though I sorta expect a steam roll from a big corporate territory. Of course once you start I will rp immidetely.

Still need someone for Uruguay here.

Just out of Curiosity, anyone open to a Berlin Conference-ish meeting?Alot of people seem eager to colonize africa.

Just out of Curiosity, anyone open to a Berlin Conference-ish meeting?Alot of people seem eager to colonize africa.

I hope you gus have fun. Im focusing on making Germany the greatest industrial power.

I'll do Mozambique if someone else does Uganda. I'm better at RP'ing weak nations.
The Thread is up.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread....3#post12821653

Shakal, you going to RP as Italy in EFJ?

You can't make Germany an industrial power without recources, and all you've got is a bit of coal and farm land.

hey, the carribean pic does not show my colonies.

also, i can host a conference in Al-Quds

Al Quads?

Al Quads?

Al-Quds = Jerusalem.

Remember that this is the 1850's so the majority of the people in this area would me Arab Muslim, and Al-Quds is the Arabic name for the city.

Unfortunately I'm going away for a bit. (Two weeks).
Angermanland knows roughly what I'm planning, and anyone sneakily invading me while I'm gone, he has my permission to use my army to lay the smack-down :)
I have lots of plans and schemes for when I get back...

actually...

no i don't. haven't caught up with you on msn in a while...

there was some mention of my railways though, i think?

oh, and ships and trading and such... i should go read your fact book...

but yeah, i can do that.

edit: not that the fact book tells me much.

can I make thethread for that conference now?

can I make thethread for that conference now?

I'm in.

EDIT: Since no-one wants to RP Uganda in my invasion, is it okay if I do it myself? I'm planning some defeats for my army.

I'm in.

EDIT: Since no-one wants to RP Uganda in my invasion, is it okay if I do it myself? I'm planning some defeats for my army.

up

I'll join this conference now, as you are the person in between my lands and my main land of Turkey. I'll create a brief factbook now to be added to.

Invasions, looking for someone to RP defenses.

HTC invasions of 1850-1851 thread.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=531358

Malaysia
Madagascar
Siam

I too will join the conference.

are there any places left?

Plenty. Mostly Africa though.

meh... :rolleyes:

A bit of Asia is left, mostly Central, so you won't have any ports except on the Caspian.

The Thread is up.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread....3#post12821653
The link doesn't seem to work.

May I please claim the remaining parts of Norway and Sweden, Iceland, Greenland, and Ireland as my homeland. As well, to note my homeland will act as more to supply superiorly trained soldiers to keep control of the colonies and they produce weapons for colonial forces to keep control.

With Cuba, Hispaniola, Puerto Rico, Cameroon, Namibia, Botswana, Ghana, and Côte d'Ivoire as my colonies. To note I willing chose many small areas for their potential as colonies to allow me to justify my claim over a large number of countries. Also, to state the colonies will hold a large population of people from my homeland.

I would like to join and claim central america (panama to belize) and the islands of cuba, jamaca, and the bahamas.

I dont see why that wont be allowed.

That area is being divided up in the Al-Quds thread, here-

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=531446

If you can get in, you may be able to salvage that area. Good luck, it's looking pretty frenzied.

*bump* back from an unexpected trip, anyone still here?

i am. havn't been doing anything, but i'm not dead :D

I say we both try our hands at invading mexico =P

what's to invade? there's no one there and most of it's desert and mountain, if i remember rightly.

also it has coastline.

with water.

with salt in it.

blech.

piles upon piles of gold? the mexican jungles? it's more than desert.

What's left?