NationStates Jolt Archive

That kind of reasoning is the reason this RP is over and Torontian history is being written by me instead of RP'd.

Though i hate to see things degrade like this i will make my opinion known: This RP ended as it did because Amestria wanted to change/ignore anything that didn't go according to his plans.

At this point the RP is over and we are trying to write an amicable ending so that the labor of the last [insert number of months] was not wasted building a monument to futility.

This will prove interesting because if Yallak couldn't hold on to Torontia it would completely destroy the nation (as was the original plan when Tanakis first fled in the first torontia RP).

This will prove interesting because if Yallak couldn't hold on to Torontia it would completely destroy the nation (as was the original plan when Tanakis first fled in the first torontia RP).

Yallak does not really hold anything in Torontia and the New Order has been out of power for almost a year. Lets end this current RP but not destroy Torntia, which could be used for material in future RPs.

Yallak doesn't hold anything per se, but 1.8 million soldiers in the Western area and 1400 ships off the coast means in reality I hold much.

Yallak doesn't hold anything per se, but 1.8 million soldiers in the Western area and 1400 ships off the coast means in reality I hold much.

And with me having a good half of Dororsyforce and Airgtheforce mobilized to Saharistan right now, do you really want to go to war with the SWC when we move in?

And with me having a good half of Dororsyforce and Airgtheforce mobilized to Saharistan right now, do you really want to go to war with the SWC when we move in?

I assume those fairy words are groups of military assets but they mean as little as the SWC does to the Empire, so never mind using italics because i would have no fears about war with you.

And as i said, if i though i couldn't hold Torontia i would just destroy it.

Fairy words?

And as i said, if i though i couldn't hold Torontia i would just destroy it.

And why cannot everyone just pull out of Torontia after an unified Democratic Government is established. No one gains anything, no one loses anything, the story remains mostly intact, and we can move forward on other RPs (and use Torontia in the future).

Dororsyforce and Airgtheforce. What the??

Yallak v. SWC would be brutally griefing, but if the individual SWC nations calls in their own allies that are not in the SWC, then the 'Infinite' Empire stands no chance.

Oh, excuse me for using different words than "Offensive Branch of My Army" and "Defensive Branch of my Army" to break up the monotony of moving my troops. Let me go change all my fleets' names to "Fleet 1" and "Fleet 2" ad infinitum, as well, so I don't get accused of using "fairy words" in my nation.

Xirnium, the RP has been ended.

And why cannot everyone just pull out of Torontia after an unified Democratic Government is established.
Because when my Cardinal at the conference suggested just this she was ignored by your delegates. Now you want to have your cake and eat it too.

Xirnium, the RP has been ended.
As far as I am concerned you can't unilaterally end an RP.

And why cannot everyone just pull out of Torontia after an unified Democratic Government is established. No one gains anything, no one loses anything, the story remains mostly intact, and we can move forward on other RPs (and use Torontia in the future).

Oh yes, mostly intact.

ICly we wouldn't allow the SWC to take the nation - but i doubt it will matter because McKagan will just write the ending however he wants. He already made it quite clear that the SWC would have Torontia no matter what people thought.

Because when my Cardinal at the conference suggested just this she was ignored.

A Federal idea was proposed and the Conference was moot anyway because SF did not intend to take it seriously! If SF had wanted a unitary government there most likely would have been one, but SF did nothing at the Conference, nothing…

A Federal idea was proposed and the Conference was moot anyway because SF did not intend to take it seriously! If SF had wanted a unitary government there most likely would have been one, but SF did noting at the Conference, noting…
It makes no difference after the fact. The point is the conference fell through, you can't simply godmod an answer to it.

Oh, excuse me for using different words than "Offensive Branch of My Army" and "Defensive Branch of my Army" to break up the monotony of moving my troops. Let me go change all my fleets' names to "Fleet 1" and "Fleet 2" ad infinitum, as well, so I don't get accused of using "fairy words" in my nation.

Sorry if that offended you they just didn't make any sense.

Oh yes, mostly intact.

ICly we wouldn't allow the SWC to take the nation - but i doubt it will matter because McKagan will just write the ending however he wants. He already made it quite clear that the SWC would have Torontia no matter what people thought.

If you would actually read, what he said there has so far been a tossing around of ideas. One idea (the one I justed suggested) is the "Everyone leaves and the Mission is Accomplished" ending.

It makes no difference after the fact. The point is the conference fell through, you can't simply godmod an answer to it.

It fell through because of the OOC puppet factor...

Yallak v. SWC would be brutally griefing, but if the individual SWC nations calls in their own allies that are not in the SWC, then the 'Infinite' Empire stands no chance.

That is if their allies can be bothered to waste resourse for a poor nation like Torontia because i deffinately don't have any allies that would help me.

It fell through because of the puppet factor...
In other words you had an OOC argument with Saint Fedski and instead of working it out like mature individuals you've decided to take your ball and go home.

Fine, but ICly there is nothing stopping me from continuing with the RP.

Or I could do the Saharistan War Coalition a favor and use the Idiot Godmoder Noncontinuity Omni Repellent Eradicator Mark 6 (scroll down) (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=294969) on the Infinite Empire and then Yallak will be outta the way. :D

Sorry if that offended you they just didn't make any sense.

You're surprised that the term "fairy words" offended me? I wouldn't have been offended if you had said "What does Dororsyforce/Airgtheforce mean?" or "What are Dororsyforce and Airgtheforce?" or something, you know, inoffensive, but "fairy words?"

I'd fight alongside you, but I have my own naval battle going on with Doomingsland and MassPwnage, so I don't even know how my troops pulling out of Torontia are going to get back to Kahanistan, let alone how I'd get any more troops to Torontia, especially with the anti-Amestrian rioting that's still going on in Kahanistan's capital.

Fine, but ICly there is nothing stopping me from continuing with the RP.

The RP has been closed.

You're surprised that the term "fairy words" offended me? I wouldn't have been offended if you had said "What does Dororsyforce/Airgtheforce mean?" or "What are Dororsyforce and Airgtheforce?" or something, you know, inoffensive, but "fairy words?"

Well I tend to write OOC as semi-IC thats why I use references like 'The Empire' and make arrogant statements to those who oppose me - hence the use of 'fairy words' - i was purposely degrading your forces.

So sorry again.

The RP has been closed.
I don't terminate my RPs OOCly.

I'd fight alongside you, but I have my own naval battle going on with Doomingsland and MassPwnage, so I don't even know how my troops pulling out of Torontia are going to get back to Kahanistan, let alone how I'd get any more troops to Torontia, especially with the anti-Amestrian rioting that's still going on in Kahanistan's capital.

The Imperial navy can transport your troops back to Kahanistan. (I was also suppose to make a reply to ViZion's civil war but i never got around to it yet so the Empire could even join you in your fight now).

I don't terminate my RPs OOCly.

The account owner has closed it. Continuing will only produce more bad feelings and wreck the story (which can be salvaged).

We are currently trying to discuss an arranged IC ending.

Or I could do the Saharistan War Coalition a favor and use the Idiot Godmoder Noncontinuity Omni Repellent Eradicator Mark 6 (scroll down) (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=294969) on the Infinite Empire and then Yallak will be outta the way. :D

Yes, ignore me because im a threat to your objectives - thats how every good RP is written these days (or so it seems for this Torontia RP anyway).

The account owner has closed it.
The account owner did not start it and neither he nor you controls what I RP my nation doing. End of discussion, I've had enough of your nonesense Amestria.

The account owner has closed it. Continuing will only produce more bad feelings and wreck the story (which can be salvaged).

We are currently trying to discuss an arranged IC ending.

Where the SWC takes control of Torontia regardless of what would really happen.

Where the SWC takes control of Torontia regardless of what would really happen.

NO, you have not been listening to anything I have said. If you don't want the SWC to take control it won't. Why don't you contribute your own ideas for a nice ending we all can live with...

Yallak, this RP is not salvageable at the point that it has gotten to. SF and Amestria are not going to give each other any ground, and it's just been OOC bitching since I started reading it. At least this way we can get some good RPing from it, even though it is, unfortunately, terminating the roleplay for other nations.

Good idea, I won't have to worry anything about logistics, and I can cut the strength in Torontia to 15,000, as I'd planned. They'll just be military instructors, aid workers, etc.

Also, you might want to help me with my naval tactics, the OOC battle is pretty bad there. My fleet underwent some pretty serious rebuilding after the Freekish war (10 Big Ass Navy Packages from DMG, and that's just for starters. I also have the specs for a Xirnium warship, the H-44E, and am developing an indigenous Super Dreadnaught.)

So my fleet is quite large, even after cutting it by 60%.

It fell through because of the OOC puppet factor...
It fell through because the Commonwealth ICly wants to invade Amestria. It also fell through because you have done nothing but bitch since Yallak withdrew support for you and the strong Torontian soldiers forced you to withdraw. It also fell through because the Commonwealth didn't want a conference unless it was regarding your surrender. What you like to call "puppets" had nothing to do with it. It just gave you something bitch about because you felt it would end in your defeat, regardless of the RP.

It fell through because the Commonwealth ICly wants to invade Amestria. It also fell through because you have done nothing but bitch since Yallak withdrew support for you and the strong Torontian soldiers forced you to withdraw. It also fell through because the Commonwealth didn't want a conference unless it was regarding your surrender. What you like to call "puppets" had nothing to do with it. It just gave you something bitch about because you felt it would end in your defeat, regardless of the RP.

It fell through because you and Amestria have bitched about the puppets. You wouldn't back down and neither would Amestria, which just ruined the RP because we couldn't get anywhere. Stop acting like you're innocent; you aren't. Neither is Amestria in my eyes, but that's the way it is.

you might want to help me with my naval tactics
Have a word with Sarzonia or Praetonia or Scandavian States, not only they are excellent shipwrights, but masters of the seven seas.

NO, you have not been listening to anything I have said. If you don't want the SWC to take control it won't. Why don't you contribute your own ideas for a nice ending we all can live with...

McKagan indicated his intention in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10224758&postcount=187). He also made clear that collaboration from other RPers wasn't needed:

False. I own the Torontian account. So, in the end, I have the final say in what happens to the nation.

You seem to be the only one saying that the McKagan doesn't intend that the SWC will ultimately end up with control of Torontia.

Yallak, this RP is not salvageable at the point that it has gotten to. SF and Amestria are not going to give each other any ground, and it's just been OOC bitching since I started reading it. At least this way we can get some good RPing from it, even though it is, unfortunately, terminating the roleplay for other nations.

Unfortunately that is probably true but i was looking at it from an IC perspective - The Empire would never give the ground up to the SWC. However for the sake of ending this I may have to.

NO, you have not been listening to anything I have said. If you don't want the SWC to take control it won't. Why don't you contribute your own ideas for a nice ending we all can live with...

Really:

It gives the SWC (which, in any case, is going to have the nation in the end) something to work with in the future.

It fell through because the Commonwealth ICly wants to invade Amestria. It also fell through because you have done nothing but bitch since Yallak withdrew support for you and the strong Torontian soldiers forced you to withdraw. It also fell through because the Commonwealth didn't want a conference unless it was regarding your surrender. What you like to call "puppets" had nothing to do with it. It just gave you something bitch about because you felt it would end in your defeat, regardless of the RP.

I was going to do a military RP against you, but I wanted a winter break for rest, so I could get somethings out of the way in RL and then concentrate on the RP better. You did not want a break and OOC promised that if I finished the initial bombing raids we would have a ceasefire and a conference to settle matters. That is why I did not RP Amestria going at you fully...

Then you go and break your promise, threatening OOC war against me, promising me destruction and throwing those f&^$ puppets in my face (while claiming they were real player nations)!

Of course I wouldn't back down. They belong in the RP. I've been RPing as the Commonwealth of Saint Fedski. Amestria knew that. Amestria knew exactly what was going on. Only he changed his mind after Yallak withdrew support. They are not my puppets, I do not control the nations. They have their own players. They just have had no need to post. I was the major player among the Commonwealth in the RP so I called the shots. If Thornz was the major player, he would call the shots.

You don't see two allied armies invade the same country and do their own thing. No, see a central command that calls the shots. That's exactly what happened here. Amestra and McKagan chose to call that bullshit because they feel it threatened what they have OOCly planned for Torontia.

Good idea, I won't have to worry anything about logistics, and I can cut the strength in Torontia to 15,000, as I'd planned. They'll just be military instructors, aid workers, etc.

Also, you might want to help me with my naval tactics, the OOC battle is pretty bad there. My fleet underwent some pretty serious rebuilding after the Freekish war (10 Big Ass Navy Packages from DMG, and that's just for starters. I also have the specs for a Xirnium warship, the H-44E, and am developing an indigenous Super Dreadnaught.)

So my fleet is quite large, even after cutting it by 60%.

Your probably best at this point to recall everything from Torontia.

I could give you a hand with tactics but thats for somewhere else not here (theres enough here to keep up with as it is).

They are not my puppets, I do not control the nations. They have their own players.

Oh, really? Let's look back at what you've posted previously.

Then what's to stop me from using the other commonwealth nations as the owner, not as a puppet?

using the other commonwealth nations as the owner, not as a puppet?

as the owner

Kahanistan, telegram!

Oh, really? Let's look back at what you've posted previously.
What are you saying?

What are you saying?

I'm saying your post admitted to you being the owner of your puppets. Reread it. It's rather obvious.

That is out of context though - it was a sarcastic question to Amestria after he said that McKagan was RPing Torontia as the owner and not as a puppet, so SF's reply basically meant - why the hell can't I Rp as the owner of the commonwealth nations even if they are puppets.

No it really didn't. Well Torontia was an account held by another person. McKagan didn't start it, Correct? What's to stop them from just giving me thier accounts like Torontia did for McKagan?

And what Yallak said.

No it really didn't. Well Torontia was an account held by another person. McKagan didn't start it, Correct? What's to stop them from just giving me thier accounts like Torontia did for McKagan?

Mckagan is not using Torontia to add to his power in a military RP!

The fact that McKagan, up until the point that he canceled the RP, did not roleplay as Torontia, whereas you were adamant that you use your puppets to roleplay. McKagan was not asking to use Torontia's armed forces in the RP, but you were. The only similarity is that you both own other nations.

That is out of context though - it was a sarcastic question to Amestria after he said that McKagan was RPing Torontia as the owner and not as a puppet, so SF's reply basically meant - why the hell can't I Rp as the owner of the commonwealth nations even if they are puppets.

It's bad form to use puppets in a roleplay and if I recall correctly everyone else was telling Saint Fedski he couldn't use his puppets to give him a military advantage.

Mckagan is not using Torontia to add to his power in a military RP!

No - he only does it to decide the COMPLETE OUTCOME of the RP.

Kahanistan, I responded to your TG. Also, post in the Naval Tactics section of the NS Draftroom, you have an account on there don't you?

For The Last Time: They Aren't Puppets! Get That Through Your Thick Skulls!

No - he only does it to decide the COMPLETE OUTCOME of the RP.

The RP went to hell because of the puppet issue!

No - he only does it to decide the COMPLETE OUTCOME of the RP.

After letting Amestria and Saint Fedski bitch with no results for days. I fully support McKagan's action, and I'm not getting anything from him just because I'm an ally and in the SWC. The arguments were out of hand, and it was not salvageable because neither side would back down. What do you propose happen, if McKagan decides to change his opinion?

For The Last Time: They Aren't Puppets! Get That Through Your Thick Skulls!

They ARE! You control all their actions and their "players" do not post independently (or do anything independently)!

Everyone looked at your idea concerning "unified action" and they knew it was messed up!

The RP went to hell because of the puppet issue!

Stop bringing it up - I have made my opinion on that matter clear and will not argue about it anymore.

After letting Amestria and Saint Fedski bitch with no results for days. I fully support McKagan's action, and I'm not getting anything from him just because I'm an ally and in the SWC. The arguments were out of hand, and it was not salvageable because neither side would back down. What do you propose happen, if McKagan decides to change his opinion?

What I would propose it this:

For the sake of OOC peace: SF doesn't use/or get the other nations of his commonwealth to supply military forces to this RP (and Amestria stops ignoring tings left, right and centre). That should end this current unreasonable argument and allow things to get somewhat back on course in the IC thread as Amestria's sole complaint is SF's supposed puppets. (I will not argue that they are or aren't anymore, its not important as it they were not a major components of this RP.)

They ARE! You control all their actions and their "players" do not post independently (or do anything independently)!

Everyone looked at your idea concerning "unified action" and they knew it was messed up!
Who cares how they post? If you had let it go for a little while you would've seen independant posts. But you had to keep bitching and thus ruined the Conference of the Commonwealth with your nonsense. I told both you and McKagan time after time that everything would be explained there. Instead, you guys just kept whining and bitching, didn't let anything play out.

For the sake of keeping the RP going, I will agree with Yallak.

The RP went to hell because of the puppet issue!
Let's be honest Amestria, the puppet issue was just an excuse for you to exit this RP without an IC reason. If you two had wanted to you could have found a solution to it together.

Now let the issue drop, it doesn't matter anymore.

Who cares how they post? If you had let it go for a little while you would've seen independant posts. But you had to keep bitching and thus ruined the Conference of the Commonwealth with your nonsense. I told both you and McKagan time after time that everything would be explained there. Instead, you guys just kept whining and bitching, didn't let anything play out.

This post pretty much sums up how independent they were and how you used them.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10193066&postcount=12

What I would propose it this:

For the sake of OOC peace: SF doesn't use/or get the other nations of his commonwealth to supply military forces to this RP (and Amestria stops ignoring tings left, right and centre). That should end this current unreasonable argument and allow things to get somewhat back on course in the IC thread as Amestria's sole complaint is SF's supposed puppets. (I will not argue that they are or aren't anymore, its not important as it they were not a major components of this RP.)

I agree with you - I wanted to see this RP go off, and if all sides can agree to one thing before McKagan sees this thread again, hopefully we can actually retcon McKagan's decision to do away with the RP.

But it would take all sides agreeing to one decision. If you don't know how to do that, look up "compromise" in a dictionary.

Let's be honest Amestria, the puppet issue was just an excuse for you to exit this RP without an IC reason.

That is not TRUE!

Well Amestria....SF has agreed to my proposal, what say you??

This post pretty much sums up how independent they were and how you used them.
A lame post? A lame post just saying they were on a war footing? Okay.

What I would propose it this:

For the sake of OOC peace: SF doesn't use/or get the other nations of his commonwealth to supply military forces to this RP (and Amestria stops ignoring tings left, right and centre). That should end this current unreasonable argument and allow things to get somewhat back on course in the IC thread as Amestria's sole complaint is SF's supposed puppets. (I will not argue that they are or aren't anymore, its not important as it they were not a major components of this RP.)

I would agree but there will have to be significant rewrites concerning the IC posts of the last week...on all sides.

For example, I was planning on sending additional Amestrian aircraft carriers to Torontian waters, but because SF was threatening to attack me with his puppets (which I thought to be legitamate player nations at the time) I did not send any to Torontia, preparing instead for home defense.

In fact, I think it would be best just to wipe everything several days old and re-start from there.

However, I think ending things may be the best idea...

A lame post? A lame post just saying they were on a war footing? Okay.

Shows you were RPing the whole "Commonwealth" at a whim, making them puppets.

There is many a precedent for going back and doing things over. For example, when me and Mckagan had a covert RP on Torontia Thread number one there were some misunderstandings on both sides and the thing went to hell. We talked about it OOC, realized our mistakes, deleted the mistakes, and rewrote it from the begining...

I just don't know if Saint Fedski and me can get along well enough after this to make it a worthwhile RP to continue...

That is not TRUE!
Prove it then. There is no longer any reason to veto continuing this thread (since SF has agreed to remove his puppets), so shake hands figuratively and get on with RPing.

Prove it then. There is no longer any reason to veto continuing this thread (since SF has agreed to remove his puppets), so shake hands figuratively and get on with RPing.

There is the fruit of the poisoned tree which has to be cut off first.

There is the fruit of the poisoned tree which has to be cut off first.
Work something out then between yourselves like mature individuals and get on with it. My posts will stay since there is nothing wrong with them.

Work something out then like mature individuals and get on with it. My posts will stay since there is nothing wrong with them.

What I really want to do is hand all of Western Torontia over to Mckagan and the SWC and just withdraw Amestria from the rest of the RP (not forever, but for quite a while). I just think that this RP is too posioned for me to stay in it...

I have shown (in past posts) Amestria's IC reasons for leaving. I had an IC thread with Mckagan in which the whole thing was being planned...

Work something out then between yourselves like mature individuals and get on with it. My posts will stay since there is nothing wrong with them.

I resent you tone...

What I really want to do is hand all of Western Torontia over to Mckagan and the SWC and just withdraw Amestria from the rest of the RP (not forever, but for quite a while). I just think that this RP is too posioned for me to stay in it...

I have shown (in past posts) Amestria's IC reasons for leaving. I had an IC thread with Mckagan in which the whole thing was being planned...

Then withdraw, but you will ICly have to do it and any SWC ships will be prevented by the blockade from entering

That still raises the issue of the SWC getting in. I don't think Yallak would allow them in quite so easily and I know I will go after more land as soon as you started pulling back.

Then withdraw, but you will ICly have to do it and any SWC ships will be prevented by the blockade from entering

They will be taking over Amestrias mandate, and I do not see why they cannot be given premission from Amestria to enter, arrive on Amestrian ships, or be flown in...

Either that or we do a rewrite of all things poisioned by the puppets, such as the Conference (which Yallak did not take part in because of RL issues).

That still raises the issue of the SWC getting in. I don't think Yallak would allow them in quite so easily and I know I will go after more land as soon as you started pulling back.

We have been over that, the TPG would still be there and so would the fortifications...

A rewrite would entail the following:

1) A redo of the Kurora Conference.

2) An axing of all IC posts from the last several days.

3) Assurances that OOC hosility will not translate into the IC...

We have been over that, the TPG would still be there and so would the fortifications...

They can be attacked if SF so chooses.

And what would redoing the conference acheive - The TIG and SF want the TPG to surrender - that will not change. And neither will the fact that the Empire will refuse to allow the SWC to enter.

Then withdraw, but you will ICly have to do it and any SWC ships will be prevented by the blockade from entering

Dororsyforce and Airgtheforce (Offensive Army & Defensive Army) are poised to enter Torontia at Amestria's signal, and of course it will be seen as an act of war if you shoot down any Sucellan Armed Forces transports. I have no traditional navy as I'm a FT nation. Please do not see this as techwanking, because for all intents and purposes in MT RPs such as any RP I am a part of with the SWC, I use my FT resources as MT resources. I brought my troops in from my homeworld, but if I withdraw I'll just withdraw to Saharistan and then after a while back to my homeworld. Saharistan is my base of operations and is my MT "nation" since I don't have claims other than that on Earth. I do not use my TIE fighters as TIE fighters in MT, I use them as fighter jets. I do not use my Star Destroyers period in MT, nor do I use any blatantly FT tech like lightsabers or the like.

And what would redoing the conference acheive - The TIG and SF want the TPG to surrender - that will not change. And neither will the fact that the Empire will refuse to allow the SWC to enter.

1) SF was at the time threatening war with those puppets.

2) Yallak was not there...

And I fail to see how the Empire IC could stop Amestria from flying them in as it sent transport planes to pick up its own troops...

1) SF was at the time threatening war with those puppets.

2) Yallak was not there...

And I fail to see how the Empire IC could stop Amestria from flying them in as it sent transport planes to pick up its own troops...

That wouldn't really effect the outcome as we were neutral and if we found you smuggling in SWC forces then we would destroy them and your transports too then. (Satellites, patrolling planes, troops on the ground - all could see the unloadings of your planes)

Dororsyforce and Airgtheforce (Offensive Army & Defensive Army) are poised to enter Torontia at Amestria's signal, and of course it will be seen as an act of war if you shoot down any Sucellan Armed Forces transports. I have no traditional navy as I'm a FT nation. Please do not see this as techwanking, because for all intents and purposes in MT RPs such as any RP I am a part of with the SWC, I use my FT resources as MT resources. I brought my troops in from my homeworld, but if I withdraw I'll just withdraw to Saharistan and then after a while back to my homeworld. Saharistan is my base of operations and is my MT "nation" since I don't have claims other than that on Earth. I do not use my TIE fighters as TIE fighters in MT, I use them as fighter jets. I do not use my Star Destroyers period in MT, nor do I use any blatantly FT tech like lightsabers or the like.

I don't care if you use your things with MT stats and abilities - just as long as there is no retarded laser weapons, flying battleships etc (i have seen these things done before).

1) A redo of the Kurora Conference.
You really want to do that again? The same delegates will be there. The same things will happen.


2) An axing of all IC posts from the last several days.
The fleet still arrived, and the troops still landed. I will have Thornz delete his post. I will then add the McFarlandish forces instead.


3) Assurances that OOC hosility will not translate into the IC...
Assured.

I don't care if you use your things with MT stats and abilities - just as long as there is no retarded laser weapons, flying battleships etc (i have seen these things done before).

My Stormtroopers are equipped with the Star Wars stuff, but for the sake of it being MT, they won't be shooting lasers, just bullets. I'm not going to be using Star Destroyers or the like, so there's no worry there.

My Stormtroopers are equipped with the Star Wars stuff, but for the sake of it being MT, they won't be shooting lasers, just bullets. I'm not going to be using Star Destroyers or the like, so there's no worry there.

As long as it's MT i don't mind what equipment they are packing

You really want to do that again? The same delegates will be there. The same things will happen.


The fleet still arrived, and the troops still landed. I will have Thornz delete his post. I will then add the McFarlandish forces instead.


In that case then I just feel the best thing is for it to end, the RP has been irreparably compromised and there is no solution other then ending it with everyone leaving Torontia...

Why do you say that?

Amestria, BIG TG.

Why do you say that?

There are too many issues for this ever to be enjoyable again and for some reason no one is letting me leave Torontia in a satisfactory manner... Where it to end we could then move on to other things...

It ends, Torontia becomes Democratic, united, no foreign power in control, everyone leaves, end of RP... Torontia could then be used later in a more organized format...

Or we could just RP an agreed upon IC ending...

The only issue is that you want to rewrite everything that you don't like. Yallak, Xirnium nor I see any problem with what happened at the conference, or the landings. You are ignoring the landings just because they didn't have permission.

Did the Canadians have permission to land at Dieppe? No, and we got our asses handed to us.
Did the allies have permission to land on Sicily? No. And we walked ashore with ease.
Did the allies have permission to land at normandy? No. But the Germans gave us a good go of it.

There are too many issues for this ever to be enjoyable again and for some reason no one is letting me leave Torontia in a satisfactory manner... Where it to end we could then move on to other things...

The only thing everyone is doing is actually RPing ICly. You only don't see it a satisfactory because those IC actions don't agree with how you OOC want this RP to end - you giving everything over to the SWC and us accepting that and leaving.

The only issue is that you want to rewrite everything that you don't like. Yallak, Xirnium nor I see any problem with what happened at the conference, or the landings. You are ignoring the landings just because they didn't have permission.


I have nothing to gain in ending the RP, but I believe it is the best option. This RP for me has become devoid of fun or interest and I feel there is too much bad blood and posioned fruit for it to get back on track without rewrites...

Also, you RPed those troops as belonging to a Commonwealth nation, you will be changing them, rewriting things. I see no reason why rewriting should not go further.

Or you could just let me leave and let the SWC take my place (I am sure that IC Yallak and SF could come up with an IC reason to allow it). The RP could then continue unhindered. Amestria would not benefit in the SWC taking over its mandate, but no, SF and Yallak don't want to allow them in and want to take the oppertunity to devour terratory.

OOC:
I don't want a war.
I want peace.
I want to hold elections in Torontia and pass it off to the new government.
I want to get involved in conferences and meetings with certain nations.

IC:
The characters are pissed off with Amestria.
The politicians, while not wanting war, don't want to settle with Amestria.
The military commanders, are probably the most pissed off with Amestria and they want to stick it to them.

Because I OOCly want peace, doesn't mean anything. It wouldn't make sense for all my characters just to change their mind all of a sudden and go all "lets get along with Amestria, they haven't done anything wrong". What would make sense though is them continually threatening Amestria and pushing the limits of the temporary peace. Even provoking Amestria is acceptable, because it is the military commanders who are in charge in Torontia. Depending what happens there, they could face court time.

Or you could just let me leave and let the SWC take my place (I am sure that IC Yallak and SF could come up with an IC reason to allow it). The RP could then continue unhindered. Amestria would not benefit in the SWC taking over its mandate, but no, SF and Yallak don't want to allow them in and want to take the oppertunity to devour terratory.

Yes, we want the land - same as when we first attacked Torontia (which may i add would already be under our control if people handed magically landed before us even though my fleet and invasion troops were already next to the nation - but you don't hear me demanding a rewriting).

EDIT: ICly the Empire would never allow the SWC to come in and take over.

I believe that was close to my 30th post when I had my forces just arrive there ahead of Yallak's fleet. Same with Amestria and Kahanistan I believe.

Torontia becomes Democratic, united, no foreign power in control, everyone leaves, end of RP... Torontia could then be used later in a more organized format
And how are we supposed to do that? I highly doubt McKagan would willingly maintain the account of Torontia, and the player behind the ex-Saharistan would request it back and later the New New Order returns. And the Yallakians would never hand over the nation to the Saharistan War Coalition. In fact, they would most likely do the exact same thing (to the SWC) they did to Torontia in the first place: launch thousands of cruise missiles to raze their entire nations to the ground.

Another thing, SF OOC promised me in exchange for not taking a winter break a ceasefire and a working towards resolution. If SF had not made that OOC promise I would have taken a winter break and right now we would be RPing the Amestrians attacking Seattle with overwelming force! Instead, after a ceasefire is declared SF goes off threatening me with war OOC and waving around his puppets (promising "Amestria's demise").

If you want to get things back on track then why not just have everyone realize it would be better to bury the past and have everything (grudgenly) move forward. There are plenty of IC reasons for such action on behalf of all the characters...

IC and OOC everything moves forward...

And the Yallakians would never hand over the nation to the Saharistan War Coalition. In fact, they would most likely do the exact same thing (to the SWC) they did to Torontia in the first place: launch thousands of cruise missiles to raze their entire nations to the ground.

BINGO! SEA gets the jackpot!

EDIT: but we'd wipe out Torontia first too, before losing it to anyone.

Things which have caused problems in this RP.

1) A poorly RPed war (the first one)

2) A promise made by SF to Amestria in exchange for Amestria not taking a winter break

3) The puppet and issues concerning them...

So instead of roleplaying a mature war with infantry and the like, you'd just be like "LOL NO WAI" and launch tons of missiles at our nations if we tried to invade?

EDIT: but we'd wipe out Torontia first too, before losing it to anyone.

You don't own in the first place, no one does, everyone is there as a "caretaker."

There are plenty of IC reasons for such action on behalf of all the characters...

Such as?

So instead of roleplaying a mature war with infantry and the like, you'd just be like "LOL NO WAI" and launch tons of missiles at our nations if we tried to invade?

No

But SEA has the right idea: The Empire doesn't believe in half measures. If we set out to do something, like take over Torontia, we would do many things to attain that goal.

Such as?

1) War would utterly destroy Torontia.

2) Thousands would die when compromises could be willingly made instead

3) Yallak is neutral and wants peace in Torontia, so I do not see why that nation would start ejecting anyone at present.

4) The 42 N2 bombs Amestria has in Torontia and would use if backed into a corner...

5) General costs of an unneccessary conflict...

So instead of roleplaying a mature war with infantry and the like, you'd just be like "LOL NO WAI" and launch tons of missiles at our nations if we tried to invade?
That is one of my points when it came to Amestria's nukes.

That is one of my points when it came to Amestria's nukes.

42 is not tons... and they are not nukes, just powerful explosives.

1) War would utterly destroy Torontia.

2) Thousands would die when compromises could be willingly made instead

3) Yallak is neutral and wants peace in Torontia, so I do not see why that nation would start ejecting anyone at present.

4) The 42 N2 bombs Amestria has in Torontia and would use if backed into a corner...

5) General costs of an unneccessary conflict...

1. We are perfectly willing to do that if Torontia cannot be taken
2. See above.
3. Yallak went neutral for its own reasons - some might have wondered abou the sudden change in diplomacy
4. Such weapons are easily shot down
5. Cost is of no concern to the Empire

So Yallak wants to take over Torontia?

So Yallak wants to take over Torontia?

If the oppurtunity presents itself

Actually, only if we cannot restore Torontia with its own government. That is why ICly the SWC's arrival is unacceptable.

No one has accepted any of my suggestions at restoring the RP, bickering continues, it has been made clear I will not be allowed to RP Amestria's leaving, so I am left with the conclusion that it best be ended by Mckagan.

Your only suggestion was that we remove the poisoned fruit (ie get rid of everything after the peace treaty that didn't go your way.
We have said several times that you can RP leaving Torontia

Your only suggestion was that we remove the poisoned fruit (ie get rid of everything after the peace treaty that didn't go your way.
We have said several times that you can RP leaving Torontia

But that means Saint Fedski gets everything for OOC forcing me out and I don't want that! I would like the SWC to come in and take Amestria's place as Amestria leaves and the RP can go from there...

42 is not tons... and they are not nukes, just powerful explosives.
I wasn't talking about your N2s, I was talking about your "20,000+ nuclear arsenal" that you threatened to use if I invaded. And you N2s produce the same result as nukes, minus the radiation.

1) ICly The Commonwealth doesn't want to see Torontia destroyed, but would rather see Amestria burn, even if it means seeing Torontia destoyed.

2) ICly the only compromise the Commonwealth is willing to make is for the TPG to be folded.

3) Yallak has made no secret of its desire to take Torontia (flatten it completely)

4) Amestria would use the N2 as soon as any attack started.

5) With the many allies I have (not just other Commonwealth nations), the cost can effectively be ignored (financially speaking). The human toll would be high, but its high in any major war. I can afford to field the small military I have. With a defence budget only a couple billion less than what you have, plus a lot more in the L&O budget than needed, 1/3 the population and probably less than a 10th of the total military personnel, I would be in a lot better position to withstand the financial problems that come from a war than Amestria.

We have been over the fact that the Commonwealth nations are puppets that could not be used in anyway.

Where did that just come from? What does it have to do with anything that was just said?

But that means Saint Fedski gets everything for OOC forcing me out and I don't want that! I would like the SWC to come in and take Amestria's place as Amestria leaves and the RP can go from there...


Well if your leaving for OOC reasons then it doesn't matter how you want the RP to end - if you want it to end a certain way - stay and RP trying to achieve that end otherwise just Rp your leaving and the rest of us can go on.

This is going no where fast.

As all my suggestions have been rejected I still support Mckagan ending the RP.

see above:http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10226171&postcount=366

see above:http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10226171&postcount=366

That is not an accurate description of what I suggested.

That's what I got out of it.

That's what I got out of it.

Then it shows you were not paying attention to me.

Then explain it for us now: what is your proposal for the ending of this RP

I've been paying plenty of attention. You want to completely rewrite everything from the cease-fire. There is nothing wrong with the current IC posts that have happened since the ceasefire. If you want to RP another conference, the same thing will happen. My IC characters will call it a joke and will send some people without briefcases, without even a pen, just like last time.

I have not mixed my OOC disgust with you with the IC Character's extreme hatred of your nation.

Then explain it for us now: what is your proposal for the ending of this RP

My suggestion for ending this RP... We just agree to an ending no one has a problem with and just end it, moving on to other matters.

I've been paying plenty of attention. You want to completely rewrite everything from the cease-fire. There is nothing wrong with the current IC posts that have happened since the ceasefire. If you want to RP another conference, the same thing will happen. My IC characters will call it a joke and will send some people without briefcases, without even a pen, just like last time.

I have not mixed my OOC disgust with you with the IC Character's extreme hatred of your nation.

And the promise you made me?!

Which one now?

Amestria, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. The following are your options:

-RP Amestria's withdrawl. Whatever else happens is not your concern.
-Stay and RP your attempt to have the SWC enter Amestria, though you will face resistance.

You can't do both, that is unfair. There is absolutely no reason to re-write anything, since all the OOC problems have now been resolved.

Which one now?

We were fighting a war but I decided I wanted a break before continueing (I was having trouble foucusing and was tired). You promised if I did not take a break and finished up the last few attacks we would have a ceasefire and work towards resolution. You broke that promise that you made to me. If you had not made that promise the following would have happened.

1) I take a week off, only doing some minor character RPing and getting RL issues out of the way.

2) The war would continue at the end of the break.

But you made an OOC promise to influence my decisions IC and OOC then broke it!

We were fighting a war but I decided I wanted a break before continueing (I was having trouble foucusing and was tired). You promised if I did not take a break and finished up the last few attacks we would have a ceasefire and work towards resolution. You broke that promise that you made to me. If you had not made that promise the following would have happened.

1) I take a week off, only doing some minor character RPing and getting RL issues out of the way.

2) The war would continue at the end of the break.

But you made an OOC promise to influence my decisions IC and OOC then broke it!

Can't we put all off that behind us? Why should this effect the RP?

Can't we put all off that behind us? Why should this effect the RP?

Because it did effect the RP!

Because it did effect the RP!
How? How did it ICly effect the RP so badly that you absolutely must shut down the RP and spoil it for the rest of us?

This sounds like sour grapes to me.

We were fighting a war but I decided I wanted a break before continueing (I was having trouble foucusing and was tired). You promised if I did not take a break and finished up the last few attacks we would have a ceasefire and work towards resolution. You broke that promise that you made to me. If you had not made that promise the following would have happened.

1) I take a week off, only doing some minor character RPing and getting RL issues out of the way.

2) The war would continue at the end of the break.

But you made an OOC promise to influence my decisions IC and OOC then broke it!
No, I made a promise to hold a conference regarding a ceasefire. Which was held. I cannot OOCly promise peace when it wouldn't make IC sense. And I was not going to let you take a break when I was not granted one when I was dealing with finding a new place after we got evicted**. Actualy, I don't even think I asked for a break, I asked for a slow down, which happened and then when I finally get back to a regular time, I see three pages of some complicated trial and some troop movements, not to mention a good chunk of OOC babble. Of course I didn't complain even though I was going to school, and working. So I don't see why you have to be so difficult when it comes to this.

**Some nonsense about us not renewing our rent in advance while there were people on a waiting list. So the four of us were pretty much homeless for a week until another place opened up.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10158056&postcount=946

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10160441&postcount=962

Things were not returned to normal...

That is no reason to end this RP, Amestria.

So an OOC idea didn't turn out as you may have hoped. It seems to me that you are fishing for reasons to end this RP OOCly.

They most certainly were. We had a ceasefire. That's all that there was in the first place.

They most certainly were. We had a ceasefire. That's all that there was in the first place.

Your words, "back to normal."

They were back to normal. All we had was a ceasefire prior to the skirmish. Once you declared a ceasefire, they were back to what they were prior to the skirmish. The only difference was in IC attitudes of the characters.

They were back to normal. All we had was a ceasefire prior to the skirmish. Once you declared a ceasefire, they were back to what they were prior to the skirmish. The only difference was in IC attitudes of the characters.

We had peace before the skirmish...

No one cares anythng for my opinions. No one ever listens to me.

Your words, "back to normal."
So far, Amestria, you seem to be doing little else then confirming my suspicion that you are searching for OOC technicalities to bring about your desired conclusion without any IC effort.

Do you want to reach a compromise? You don't need to make an issue about this, you could easily put it behind you and move forward.

We had peace before the skirmish...

Two militarily backed governments arguing over and making threats to each other in an attempt for complete control is not peace

Do you want to reach a compromise? You don't need to make an issue about this, you could easily put it behind you and move forward.

Well what do you suggest?!

No one cares anythng for my opinions. No one ever listens to me.
That's because your opinions seem to be little more then sour grapes to me. You aren't giving Yallak or myself any reasons why this RP shouldn't go ahead, your giving us a list of grievances and examples where you have been wronged. But quite frankly I don't see why we can't put all that behind us and just get on with the RP.

I feel wronged, I have issues, I have presented evidence of my issues! I have suggested compromises and fixes, but it is always no!

Well what do you suggest?!
I suggest you either:

-Try to solve the RP ICly.

-Withdraw from Amestria. No one will stop you. Let the SWC worry about Torontia, it isn't your problem.

That's because your opinions seem to be little more then sour grapes to me. You aren't giving Yallak or myself any reasons why this RP shouldn't go ahead, your giving us a list of grievances and examples where you have been wronged. But quite frankly I don't see why we can't put all that behind us and just get on with the RP.

Those instances where I have been wronged ruined this RP for me! I cannot just put it behind me... I have suggested fixes...

No one cares anythng for my opinions. No one ever listens to me.

Amestria - we have been listening to you and being reasonable to you for two OOC threads now.

This is just like last time when things didn't go how you wanted you just wanted to walk out and ignore it all. That just can't happen.

Saint Fedski has already said he want use his commonwealth nations military (your reason for ending the RP) and now you've gone and are making more reasons to leave.

If anything you won't listen to reason or try to reach a compromise with us.

Those instances where I have been wronged ruined this RP for me! I cannot just put it behind me... I have suggested fixes...

You have suggested we delete pages of an RP because they didn't suit your agenda or for us rewrite things that are going to ICly have the same result anyway

If anything you won't listen to reason or try to reach a compromise with us.

The puppets where just the straw that broke the chamels back. I have offered many compromises.

I have suggested compromises and fixes, but it is always no!
The problem is that your fixes are unnecessarily complex and require to much OOC fiddling. The best solutions are simple and allow the problem to come to a conclusion ICly. There is no reason to alter past posts and storyline. No reason to reach a compromised solution and RP the end of the thread.

All we need to do is address your current concerns (there aren't any, we fixed the puppet thing) and then get on with the RP, it will sort itself out.

You have suggested we delete pages of an RP because they didn't suit your agenda

I also suggest I leave an be replaced by someone else so you would not benefit from OOC forcing me out, but you vetoed that because it did not suit your agenda!

The puppets where just the straw that broke the chamels back. I have offered many compromises.

Ignoring legitimate posts is not a compromise

Those instances where I have been wronged ruined this RP for me!
If they ruined the RP then just roleplay your withdrawal, there's no shame in it. But this vengefulness serves no one.

I also suggest I leave an be replaced by someone else so you would not benefit from OOC forcing me out, but you vetoed that because it did not suit your agenda!

No we didn't. We said you could leave, and we said the SWC could try to get in. They cannot just magically take over your area.

The problem is that your fixes are unnecessarily complex and require to much OOC fiddling. The best solutions are simple and allow the problem to come to a conclusion ICly. There is no reason to alter past posts and storyline. No reason to reach a compromised solution and RP the end of the thread.

Alterations and consented rewriting of storyline have worked for me in the past and that is how I generally do things...


All we need to do is address your current concerns (there aren't any, we fixed the puppet thing) and then get on with the RP, it will sort itself out.

These concerns are my current concerns...

These concerns are my current concerns...
Past grievances are not current concerns, they are just sour grapes. Put them behind you.

Alterations and consented rewriting of storyline have worked for me in the past and that is how I generally do things...

You can't alter Rp just because the outcome isn't what you wanted. If we do it your way we may as well have just sat down and worked out everything that was going to happen before hand - at which point it is NO LONGER AN RP.

Alterations and consented rewriting of storyline have worked for me in the past and that is how I generally do things...
They worked in the past when there was an IC need for them, to correct flaws in the storyline. There is no IC need for them now, all we need now is for you to relent and be reasonable and the RP can continue without a hitch. Alterations to the storyline should not be made unless they are completely neccessary, which they aren't in this case.

No we didn't. We said you could leave, and we said the SWC could try to get in. They cannot just magically take over your area.

Here is the thing. I can only really write a realistic IC withdrawal if Amestria hands the mandate over to a nation with similar views.

Since Yallak and SF have no grievences with the SWC they would have no reason to oppose the SWC coming in. SF in fact should welcome Amestria being replaced by a neutral power bloc. Amestria leaves and Western Torontia is handed over to the SWC in general and Mckagan in particular. Then you guys can make love or war, whatever...

I should at least be allowed this much!

Here is the thing. I can only really write a realistic IC withdrawal if Amestria hands the mandate over to a nation with similar views.

What you are asking for is that we OOCly agree to support your IC goals. That's unacceptable. If you want something ICly you need to try to get it ICly. If you aren't willing to do that then you cant feel sore when you don't get it.

You can't alter Rp just because the outcome isn't what you wanted. If we do it your way we may as well have just sat down and worked out everything that was going to happen before hand - at which point it is NO LONGER AN RP.

The foundation of an RP is agreement in a legitimate outcome. If the outcome is viewed as illegitimate…

What you are asking for is that we OOCly agree to support your IC goals. That's unacceptable. If you want something ICly you need to try to get it ICly. If you aren't willing to do that then you cant feel sore when you don't get it.

I am withdrawing for OOC reasons and am trying to bring it about IC. What I am asking for is very reasonable!

The thing is, Yallak opposes everyone's presence in Torontia and SF the same. If Amestria were to leave, it would creat a power vacuum. Yallak and SF would race to steal as much territory as possible. Yallak would prevent the SWC from getting in using their units and I would prevent anymore Amestrian aircraft or vessels from coming anywhere near Torontia (so they can't sneak in that way either).

I am withdrawing for OOC reasons and am trying to get IC reasons.
Then you should make IC reasons. What you should not do is make us change our IC objectives to pander to your IC vision. We've already agreed not to stop you leaving, that should be enough.

You cannot have your cake and eat it.

The thing is, Yallak opposes everyone's presence in Torontia and SF the same. If Amestria were to leave, it would creat a power vacuum. Yallak and SF would race to steal as much territory as possible. Yallak would prevent the SWC from getting in using their units and I would prevent anymore Amestrian aircraft or vessels from coming anywhere near Torontia (so they can't sneak in that way either).

You cannot withdraw over a million men and all their equipment in 24-hours. It would be gradual and the SWC would come in at the same time and move into place. Also, the TPG is still in place and has more troops then Amestria and fortifications (hell, they could cut the water and electricity to the Yallak troops).

Then you should make IC reasons. What you should not do is make us change our IC objectives to pander to your IC vision. We've already agreed not to stop you leaving, that should be enough.

You cannot have your cake and eat it.

What I have suggest is very reasonable!

You cannot withdraw over a million men and all their equipment in 24-hours. It would be gradual and the SWC would come in at the same time and move into place. Also, the TPG is still in place and has more troops then Amestria and fortifications (hell, they could cut the water and electricity to the Yallak troops).
Don't be silly, Amestria. Leave these IC concerns to the IC arena. They have nothing to do with you allowing this RP to proceed or not.

What I have suggest is very reasonable!
No, it is not.

You want to godmod the SWC into Torontia, to satisfy your IC objectives. That is not reasonable. You're basically being unfair to every other person in the RP. RP is about consent, not godmod outcomes.

The foundation of an RP is agreement in a legitimate outcome. If the outcome is viewed as illegitimate…

No - i hate RP's with prearranged outcomes - they are novels not RP's.

Here is the thing. I can only really write a realistic IC withdrawal if Amestria hands the mandate over to a nation with similar views.

Since Yallak and SF have no grievences with the SWC they would have no reason to oppose the SWC coming in. SF in fact should welcome Amestria being replaced by a neutral power bloc. Amestria leaves and Western Torontia is handed over to the SWC in general and Mckagan in particular. Then you guys can make love or war, whatever...

I should at least be allowed this much!

Yallak is blockading ANYONE entering. I made it fairly clear ALL THROUGH this RP that NO-ONE ELSE would get one foot inside Torontia.

You cannot withdraw over a million men and all their equipment in 24-hours. It would be gradual and the SWC would come in at the same time and move into place. Also, the TPG is still in place and has more troops then Amestria and fortifications (hell, they could cut the water and electricity to the Yallak troops).
How would the SWC get in though? And who cares about some untrained rabble and draftees equipped with obsolete equipment? Who cares if they cut the water to the Yallak forces? I'm sure the Easterners would be more than willing to show that they are nice people. I'm SF could arrange for an airlift of water supplies to the Yallak troops. I'm also sure that with Yallak already in the rear areas, the troops manning the fortifications would be defenceless.

I may be new to this but isnt this a little much ooc chatter?
No it isn't "a little" much. It is an absurdly over the top level of OOC chatter for no reason at all.

No - i hate RP's with prearranged outcomes - they are novels not RP's.

It is not prearranged... There has been little in this RP that has been prearranged.

Wow, this is truely Amazing....

I may be new to this but isnt this a little much ooc chatter?

Yes, way too much. It is a shame that things degraded into this in the first place.

A lesson to you for any RP your in - work with your fellow RPers OOC, even if it means not getting everything you want.

No it isn't "a little" much. It is an absurdly over the top level of OOC chatter for no reason at all.

Wow, this is truely Amazing....

Agreed.

How would the SWC get in though?

They would be flown in and come in on ships!


And who cares about some untrained rabble and draftees equipped with obsolete equipment?

They are highly trained soldiers!

Yes, way too much. It is a shame that things degraded into this in the first place.

A lesson to you for any RP your in - work with your fellow RPers OOC, even if it means not getting everything you want.

I am not asking for everything I want (None of this I want), I am asking for only one thing, one little reasonable thing and then you can all continue with the RP however you want!

They would be flown in and come in on ships!
Yallak would take them out if they were using their own transportation. I would take them out if they were under the flag of Amestria.

They are highly trained soldiers!
How are they highly trained? More than half of them were pressed into service when you did the draft, a lot of them are new recruits, only a small minority are former New Order era soldiers. I don't know if you kept the New Order soldiers together in solid units like I did, or if you spread them through the army to create a small nucleus in each of the units.

Yallak would take them out if they were using their own transportation. I would take them out if they were under the flag of Amestria.


How are they highly trained? More than half of them were pressed into service when you did the draft, a lot of them are new recruits, only a small minority are former New Order era soldiers. I don't know if you kept the New Order soldiers together in solid units like I did, or if you spread them through the army to create a small nucleus in each of the units.

There are 1.5 million.

600,000 are veteran soldiers, 450,000 are expeirenced, and the rest are green.

I am not asking for everything I want (None of this I want), I am asking for only one thing, one little reasonable thing and then you can all continue with the RP however you want!
And because you can't OOCly fulfil your IC goals (which go counter to all of our IC goals, but of course who cares, we should compromise so that you get a godmod win) you need to stop the entire thread?

That's infantile Amestria, and it's not how you RP. You can't hold an RP to ransom because you aren't getting what you want without any effort.

It is not a win for me at all!

And because you can't OOCly fulfil your IC goals (which go counter to all of our IC goals, but of course who cares, we should compromise so that you get a godmod win) you need to stop the entire thread? That's infantile Amestria, it truly is.

I am not pursueing any IC goals, only my OOC goals. And you are free to shut up if you are going to start insulting me!

You cannot withdraw over a million men and all their equipment in 24-hours. It would be gradual and the SWC would come in at the same time and move into place. Also, the TPG is still in place and has more troops then Amestria and fortifications (hell, they could cut the water and electricity to the Yallak troops).

Most Yallakian troops are not actually stationed in any of the town anyway so you'd be doing more damage to your own forces/western torontians.

Mm, if my transports get shot down by Yallak then it'll be just perfect reasoning to declare war.

But this is all if McKagan does in fact decide to restart this RP. We don't yet know if he's going to or not, so all this bickering might still be pointless. We have to wait until McKagan gets back on to see what he thinks of all this, because otherwise we're going to have two RPs - one in which McKagan skips over all of this crap and goes straight into the RP he cooked up, and one in which Fedski and Yallak carve up Torontia and whatnot.

It is not a win for me at all!
That doesn't matter. It's a godmod, and an unnecessary one at that.

There are 1.5 million.

600,000 are veteran soldiers, 450,000 are expeirenced, and the rest are green.

How so. The first war Torontia was in resulted in his destruction and fighting the insurgents does not make one a veteren by any means.

That doesn't matter. It's a godmod, and an unnecessary one at that.

It is not a godmod!

How did draftees and new recruits become experienced? And if they are so well trained, why did they lose their country? Why did the withdraw against the two Torontian divisions they ran into in Olympia area? And with your defence budget, you cannot possibly provide for them while providing for your mutli-million person army. With your budget at 2.9 trillion and mine at 2.4 trillion you cannot hope to even approach the quality of the equipment I use or the training standards of mine, even for your own army, not to mention another 1.5 million in the Torontian army and a couple hundred thousand in the Torontian Air Force.

I am not pursueing any IC goals, only my OOC goals.
That is untrue. You could fulfil your IC goal simply by withdrawing, and let McKagan try to get into Torontia if he can. There is no reason to godmod a solution.

It is not a godmod!
It is, because it is done without the consent of others.

Basically you are ignoring Yallak, SF and me and going ahead with your own ending, a pure godmod.

because otherwise we're going to have two RPs - one in which McKagan skips over all of this crap and goes straight into the RP he cooked up, and one in which Fedski and Yallak carve up Torontia and whatnot.

I doubt it. If McKagan just cans this RP then we will merely ignore the entire fiasco.

How did draftees and new recruits become experienced? And if they are so well trained, why did they lose their country? Why did the withdraw against the two Torontian divisions they ran into in Olympia area? And with your defence budget, you cannot possibly provide for them while providing for your mutli-million person army. With your budget at 2.9 trillion and mine at 2.4 trillion you cannot hope to even approach the quality of the equipment I use or the training standards of mine, even for your own army, not to mention another 1.5 million in the Torontian army and a couple hundred thousand in the Torontian Air Force.

The one million man Torontian army could easily be provided for (and Amestria only recently increased its own armed forces). And they withdrew because of the ceasefire!

This is hopless, now we are fighting about the TPG army.

Mm, if my transports get shot down by Yallak then it'll be just perfect reasoning to declare war.
You transports? This is a closed RP. You cannot enter. Even if you are SWC.

It is, because it is done without the consent of others.

Basically you are ignoring Yallak, SF and me and going ahead with your own ending, a pure godmod.

It is not an ending for the RP! It is not a godmod if done right!

I doubt it. If McKagan just cans this RP then we will merely ignore the entire fiasco.

Fair enough, but there was a lot of whining when McKagan decided to end the RP and some people were talking about going on with it regardless of what McKagan said.

You transports? This is a closed RP. You cannot enter. Even if you are SWC.

The SWC has been involved in this RP, so they can enter.

I am not asking for everything I want (None of this I want), I am asking for only one thing, one little reasonable thing and then you can all continue with the RP however you want!

You are asking that we let IC things happen against all IC ideals because of OOC reasons. That is just stupid and will lose you any respect as an Rper.

It is not an ending for the RP! It is not a godmod if done right!
It is a godmod because none of us wants it done, it makes no sense ICly for any of our countries.

We just want the RP to continue and whatever happens happens. If the SWC wins then so be it.

The SWC has been involved in this RP, so they can enter.
No he cannot. As a member of the CAP, Sarzonia entering was vetoed by you. I also believe that of Madnestan, Findan and a couple others were vetoed by you as well. They are allies of mine, which cannot even be thought to be called puppets. So he cannot enter, even if the SWC is already a part of the RP.

The SWC has been involved in this RP, so they can enter. If they can do it ICly - not just because you want it.

Fair enough, but there was a lot of whining when McKagan decided to end the RP and some people were talking about going on with it regardless of what McKagan said.

Perhaps, but I think where just over all this now and want to either finish the RP properly or erase it like it never happened. I know that’s what I’m thinking now.

If they can do it ICly - not just because you want it.


I have discussed how it could be done IC...


Perhaps, but I think where just over all this now and want to either finish the RP properly or erase it like it never happened. I know that’s what I’m thinking now.

That would make it all wasted effort.

That would make it all wasted effort.

Amestria, that's what you yourself were asking for a few pages back. And now you don't want it?

I have discussed how it could be done IC...

And I said you can try that... but nothing stops us finding out about you smuggling them in and stopping it.

That would make it all wasted effort.

So is altering everything for no good reason

Amestria, that's what you yourself were asking for a few pages back. And now you don't want it?
See what we're getting at?

Amestria, that's what you yourself were asking for a few pages back. And now you don't want it?

I want the Torontian RP perserved in some form, otherwise the whole universe I have constructed is blown apart.

Amestria, that's what you yourself were asking for a few pages back. And now you don't want it?

And now you see our point - Amestria's stubbornness and lack of co-operation.

Amestria Leaves Verson 2.0

1) Amestria leaves, no SF troops in Western Torontia.

2) Mckagan forces fly in/sail in on the transports coming to pick up Amestrian forces. They will be few in number, Mckagan only has a 1.5 million man army, compared to Amestria and its 15 million man army. It is easy to see 400,000 or so Mckagan forces sneaking in as over a million Amestrians leave.

3) Things move forward as the Mckagan pressence and claim of mandate is dealt with...

Amestria Leaves Verson 2.0

1) Amestria leaves, no SF troops in Western Torontia.

2) Mckagan forces fly in/sail in on the transports coming to pick up Amestrian forces. They will be few in number, Mckagan only has a 1.5 million man army, compared to Amestria and its 15 million man army. It is easy to see 400,000 or so Mckagan forces sneaking in as over a million Amestrians leave.

3) Things move forward as the Mckagan pressence and claim of mandate is dealt with...

1) SF troops have already landed. Whether they remain Thornian or McFarlandish is entirely up to you.

2) McKagan forces fly in/sail in on the transports that are being shot down/being sunk on their way to pick up the Amestrian Forces

1) SF troops have already landed. Whether they remain Thornian or McFarlandish is entirely up to you.

No SF troops landed!


2) McKagan forces fly in/sail in on the transports that are being shot down/being sunk on their way to pick up the Amestrian Forces

Then how is Amestria supposed to leave?!

1) SF troops have already landed. Whether they remain Thornian or McFarlandish is entirely up to you.

2) McKagan forces fly in/sail in on the transports that are being shot down/being sunk on their way to pick up the Amestrian Forces

And how do you propose to know McKagan forces are on the transports? Knowing because of this thread is metagaming. Knowing for other reasons is godmoding. Knowing once the forces are in Torontia is one thing. Sinking ships / shooting down planes because you know somehow is simply godmoding.

I wouldn't know they are on board. They are Amestrian vehicles and for that reason they are being attacked. I have already made it clear that any Amestrian units approaching Torontia would come under fire.

I wouldn't know they are on board. They are Amestrian vehicles and for that reason they are being attacked. I have already made it clear that any Amestrian units approaching Torontia would come under fire.

So why don't you just invade Amestrian-held territories within Torontia? Why only attack them as they try to leave?

I wouldn't know they are on board. They are Amestrian vehicles and for that reason they are being attacked. I have already made it clear that any Amestrian units approaching Torontia would come under fire.

Then how am I supposed to freaking leave even if I was not bringing in SWC forces to replace the Amestrian pressence!

Apparently my landing in Toronita where Yalleks troops are has casued some controversy. I will just RP them going right back onto those ships. Will that solve anything?

So SF will not even allow me to leave!

Then how am I supposed to freaking leave even if I was not bringing in SWC forces to replace the Amestrian pressence!
But I believe I did tell you you had to make do with what you had already in Torontia. Well, I suppose they could be searched prior to entering Torontian waters. Other options include: using SF ships, using Kahanistanian ships, using Xirmium ships, using Yallak ships.

But I believe I did tell you you had to make do with what you had already in Torontia. Well, I suppose they could be searched prior to entering Torontian waters. Other options include: using SF ships, using Kahanistanian ships, using Xirmium ships, using Yallak ships.

Frist, Yallak, your latest IC post lacks all rhyme or reason and is simply a response to this thread, a childish example of popping the balloon instead of letting others have it.

Second, SF, Kahanistan has suggested a means to RP my leaving and I have decided to go with that provided.

1) Amestria leaves on Amestrian planes and ships.

2) There is no attempt at grabbing land until I am gone from the RP.

3) Mckagan is free to RP however he decides to try to get in and in the meantime Mckagan will RP the TPG after Amestria leaves...

Amestria has to leave on the ships and planes they already have in Torontia.

There will be land grabbing while you leave.

That's fine. If the TPG is still around.

Amestria has to leave on the ships and planes they already have in Torontia.

There will be land grabbing while you leave.


I attempt to be even more reasonable and you just tighten the screw!

Frist, Yallak, your latest IC post lacks all rhyme or reason and is simply a response to this thread, a childish example of popping the balloon instead of letting others have it.

No its actually a response to something Xirnium told me. And don't even mention childish to me after the way you've been acting, and especially don't rate how I RP when you lack the first bit of knowledge on how to do it.

No its actually a response to something Xirnium told me

What did Xirnium tell you? I have decided to try being more reasonable, I am no longer insisting the SWC be brought in, just that I be allowed to leave on my own ships and planes!

I attempt to be even more reasonable and you just tighten the screw!
That screw has been in place since the second fleet was ordered into action.

That screw has been in place since the second fleet was ordered into action.

Fruit of the posioned tree... Just let me leave!

What are you talking about? The vessel are completely legit. Nothing even gray about them. It's black and white.

What are you talking about? The vessel are completely legit. Nothing even gray about them. It's black and white.

I could go into it, but I don't want to. Surly it would not be an IC stretch to let Amestria bring in its own planes and ships to pick them up.

and the reason I request no land grabbing is because the TPG will try to stop it and Amestria would be drown into the violence. Just wait until Amestria leaves and then you can rape and pillage to your hearts content!

Fruit of the posioned tree... Just let me leave!

So being more reasonable to you is wanting free reign to leave but imposing restrictions upon what we can and can't do while your leaving. Interesting I must not properly understand the concept of reason.

I am no longer insisting the SWC be brought in, just that I be allowed to leave on my own ships and planes!
All night you have been going in circles, and now suddenly you have a change of heart? It's infuriating.

It would be an IC stretch. The Commonwealth will assume more Amestrian troops are entering Torontia. However, if you bring your ships in and have them subject to a search, they may get through.

So being more reasonable to you is wanting free reign to leave but imposing restrictions upon what we can and can't do while your leaving. Interesting I must not properly understand the concept of reason.

I am simply asking that Amestria send its own ships and planes, the reason being it would take less NS time and be less complicated. I am no longer insisting on bringing in SWC forces and yet you still foam at the mouth.

All night you have been going in circles, and now suddenly you have a change of heart? It's infuriating.

Would you rather I change my mind again and we begin going around the roseberry bush again? And I changed my mind because of Kahansitan's suggestion, not because of anything any of you suggested!

I am simply asking that Amestria send its own ships and planes, the reason being it would take less NS time and be less complicated. I am no longer insisting on bringing in SWC forces and yet you still foam at the mouth.

No I am refering to the fact you want to leave freely without restrictions (against some of SF's IC posts so far) but you want to restrict what we can takeover as you leave.

It would be an IC stretch. The Commonwealth will assume more Amestrian troops are entering Torontia. However, if you bring your ships in and have them subject to a search, they may get through.

When troops start to leave it won't be a stretch... There is IC and then there is using IC as an excuse not to do something.

And I changed my mind because of Kahansitan's suggestion, not because of anything any of you suggested!
It's wonderful to know that your opposition to our suggestions has been based on some kind of irrational resistance to us, and when proposed by someone else you accept it.

Real mature. :rolleyes:

No I am refering to the fact you want to leave freely without restrictions (against some of SF's IC posts so far) but you want to restrict what we can takeover as you leave.

Either you refrain from carving up the goose while Amestria is still in Torontia or the goose can go into the fire! I am no longer insisting on bringing in the SWC garanteed, and yet you are not happy!

Why is everyone posting on the IC thread?

Why are people posting troop withdrawls in the IC thread while waving their cocks around in this thread saying "NO SWC IS GETTING IN THEY'LL ALL BE SHOT DOWN, LOL AM I RITE?!"

It's wonderful to know that your opposition to our suggestions has been based on some kind of irrational resistance to us, and when proposed by someone else you accept it.

Real mature. :rolleyes:

It is quite easy to shut up!

Either you refrain from carving up the goose while Amestria is still in Torontia or the goose can go into the fire! I am no longer insisting on bringing in the SWC garanteed, and yet you are not happy!

The goose is about to be cooked.

I'm unhappy about your refusal to let this Rp continue without all this, this and that should happen crap. And especially unhappy about the fact that you just accepted Kahanistan's deal which is almost identical to what weve been saying all night (except for the McKagan RP's the TPG bit).

So Yallak is just going to n00k Torontia then...

Why are people posting troop withdrawls in the IC thread while waving their cocks around in this thread saying "NO SWC IS GETTING IN THEY'LL ALL BE SHOT DOWN, LOL AM I RITE?!"

If you haven't noticed where passed saying that and are preparing to end this RP once and for all as far as we are concered.

The goose is about to be cooked.

I'm unhappy about your refusal to let this Rp continue without all this, this and that should happen crap. And especially unhappy about the fact that you just accepted Kahanistan's deal which is almost identical to what weve been saying all night (except for the McKagan RP's the TPG bit).

So you are unhappy that we have come closer to reaching a deal?

If you haven't noticed where passed saying this and are preparing to end this RP once and for all as far as we are concered.

It will be ignored...

RP your troops leaving, Amestria, so that we can put tonight's tomfoolery behind us and continue with the RP. None of us will stop you.

If you haven't noticed where passed saying that and are preparing to end this RP once and for all as far as we are concered.

I've read every post in this thread and nobody except Amestria has made posts about leaving that I've seen.